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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Uh, it could happen. Here

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Speaker 1: is the podcast that you're listening to. I'm Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: the person that you're listening to, and one of the

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Speaker 1: people who does this podcast. Boy, what a what a

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Speaker 1: glorious introduction that was. Let me also introduce some human

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Speaker 1: beings who you might know. First, we have Chris and

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Speaker 1: and we have James. Are are our correspondence in the

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Speaker 1: field joining us today. Also is James's Spanish Civil War

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Speaker 1: era moson the gaunt YEP. That's right. Yeah, I'm very

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Speaker 1: happy it's joining us. It's going to make contribution throughout

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Speaker 1: the episode. Just gonna It's an antique bolt action rifle

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Speaker 1: served in three world wars. That's right. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: about too, it's about to kick off. Yeah, this one

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Speaker 1: now which it might it might be it might be

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Speaker 1: two in the alcolumn for the most in the gun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's had a it's served a mixed bag.

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Speaker 1: Um yea. Anyway, we're recording this the day of the elections,

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Speaker 1: so everybody's having a horrible one. Um yeah, I'm having

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Speaker 1: a firearm. Yeah, yeah, I did. I'm still hoping my

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Speaker 1: my Tech nine comes in before Oregon votes on its

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Speaker 1: next ballot measure. Anyway, Um, today I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about something that I've been thinking about

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Speaker 1: kind of constantly, which is, um it's called effective altruism.

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Speaker 1: And it's the short end of this is that like

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Speaker 1: it is a style of thinking about charitable giving that

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk in particular has recently highlighted as like how

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Speaker 1: he thinks about things. It's very popular with the billionaire set,

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Speaker 1: who are who are deeply invested in getting people to

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Speaker 1: think that they're saving the world, right, Um, the folks

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Speaker 1: who want to be seen as like looking ahead and

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Speaker 1: and and set protecting the future of mankind and saving

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Speaker 1: the world, um, but not doing it through things like

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Speaker 1: paying you know, more taxes and supporting you know less

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Speaker 1: money being in politics and and all that kind of jazz,

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Speaker 1: like not not anything that would would actually harm their

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Speaker 1: their personal ability to exercise power. So it's gotten kind

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Speaker 1: of attacked recently because it's associated with guys like Musk

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Speaker 1: and but as he is markedly less popular now than

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Speaker 1: he was let's say, ten years ago. Um, But I wanted, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk because effective altruism, which is an

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Speaker 1: actual movement, there's like organizations that espouse this. There's hundreds

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in charitable giving that gets handed

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Speaker 1: out under the ages of effective altruism. And as it

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Speaker 1: heads up, like most of it's fine, like most of

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Speaker 1: its charities to like get let out of water and

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Speaker 1: stuff like. It's not like effective altruism is not comprehensively

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Speaker 1: some sort of like scam by the wealthy. It's more

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Speaker 1: of a an honest theory about how charitable giving ought

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Speaker 1: to work that has been adopted by the hyper wealthiest

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Speaker 1: justification for fucked up ship and married to something called

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Speaker 1: long term is um, which we will be talking about

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Speaker 1: in a little bit. But I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: where the concept of effective altruism comes from. If you

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Speaker 1: read articles about this thing. Most people who study it

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Speaker 1: will say that it kind of This got started as

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Speaker 1: a modern movement in nineteen seventy one with an austra

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Speaker 1: Ellian philosopher named Peter Singer, and Singer wrote an article

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Speaker 1: titled Famine, Affluence and Morality. Um. I think it was

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Speaker 1: actually published in nineteen seventy two. I don't know one

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Speaker 1: of the two seventy one or seventy two, And and

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Speaker 1: the essay basically argued that there's no difference morally between

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Speaker 1: your obligation to help a person dying on the street

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Speaker 1: in front of your house, Like the dude gets hit

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Speaker 1: by a car in front of your house, you are

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Speaker 1: not more morally obligated to help him than you are

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Speaker 1: morally obligated to help people who are dying in Syria,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. And obviously, like there's a a version

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Speaker 1: of truth to that, which is that we're all responsible

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Speaker 1: for each other, and internationalism is the only actual path

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Speaker 1: away from the nightmare. And when we do things like

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Speaker 1: ignore authoritarians massacring their people, it inevitably comes back to

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Speaker 1: affect us and like fuel the growth of an authoritarian nightmare. Domestically,

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Speaker 1: that is very true, um, But also there's a fundamental

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Speaker 1: silliness in it because one reason why there is a

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Speaker 1: moral difference between helping a person dying in the street

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Speaker 1: in front of you and somebody who's in danger in

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Speaker 1: I don't know, southern China is that, like, you can

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Speaker 1: immediately help the person in front of your house, right,

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Speaker 1: like if somebody gets hit, but you have the ability

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Speaker 1: to immediately render life saving eight, it's actually quite difficult

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Speaker 1: to help somebody who is, for example, getting shot at

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Speaker 1: by the government uh in Tibet, right Like, not that

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Speaker 1: you don't don't have a moral responsibility to that person,

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Speaker 1: but your moral responsibility to actually immediately take action when

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Speaker 1: somebody is bleeding out is higher than your responsibility to

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Speaker 1: try to figure out how to help people in distant

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Speaker 1: parts of the globe. Um, this is more nuanced than

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of especially like rich assholes like

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Speaker 1: to It's more nuanced than like the the I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say rich assholes. What what's the problem with this is

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Speaker 1: that it's the this is the kind of revelation like

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Speaker 1: when you start talking this way that that feeds really

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Speaker 1: well into a fucking ted talk. It it's a perfect

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Speaker 1: fix for that morality. Whereas the reality is like a

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Speaker 1: lot more nuanced where and number one, it's also like,

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Speaker 1: well that the kind of help that you would render

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Speaker 1: to somebody who's been hit by a car in front

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Speaker 1: of your house is very different and requires really different

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Speaker 1: resources than the kind of help you would give people

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Speaker 1: in say, again like Syria, who are being murdered by

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Speaker 1: their government. Right, if somebody gets hit by a car

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Speaker 1: in front of your house, you run out with a

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Speaker 1: fucking tourniquet and a bleed kit and you call nine

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Speaker 1: one one, Right, those are the resources that you can

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Speaker 1: immediately use. If Buthar al Assad is firing poison gas

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Speaker 1: at protesters in you know, Aleppo, well your your stop.

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Speaker 1: The bleed kit is not going to help with that,

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. Right, a very different set

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Speaker 1: of resources are necessary. Um, So it's it's foolish to

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Speaker 1: compare them anyway. Singer did um and his essay was

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Speaker 1: a big hit. It's often called like a sleeper hit

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Speaker 1: for for young people who are kind of getting into

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Speaker 1: the you know, the charity industrial complex, um or at

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Speaker 1: least we're considering it. I found an interview with one

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Speaker 1: named Julia Wise, who currently works at the Center for

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Speaker 1: Effective altruism um, and she was a started out as

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Speaker 1: a social work, like to give you an idea of

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Speaker 1: the kind of people who got into this. When she

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Speaker 1: read Weiss's article, Um, she was a social worker, she

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Speaker 1: kind of fell in love with the concept. And when

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Speaker 1: it started becoming a thing, and like the seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 1: it was, as she described quote, a bunch of philosophers

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Speaker 1: and their friends and nobody had a bunch of money.

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Speaker 1: So it was also more when Singer put it out,

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Speaker 1: kind of a a wave, like a way of people

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Speaker 1: kind of debating how to think about charity, which is

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Speaker 1: is fine. People should always be like exploring stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's not I don't want to be like

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Speaker 1: going after Singer too well, I do a little bit

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Speaker 1: um because Singer after kind of his movement has a

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Speaker 1: couple of decades to grow, winds up doing a Ted

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Speaker 1: talk Um, and the Ted talk winds up kind of

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Speaker 1: electrifying a very specific chunk of the American techno set um.

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Speaker 1: And you can see kind of in in some of

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Speaker 1: the writing on this, like the way in which his

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Speaker 1: talking about sort of the morality of charity has gotten

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Speaker 1: flattened over the years quote which is the better thing

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Speaker 1: to do to provide a guide dog to one blind

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Speaker 1: American or cure two thousand people of blindness and developing

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Speaker 1: countries um, which is like, I don't know both. There's

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Speaker 1: resources to do both. Um. We Again, if you, for

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Speaker 1: an example, in the United States, were to tacks the

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Speaker 1: billionaire class and corporations a lot more, you could provide

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Speaker 1: that blind person in the United States, uh with with

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Speaker 1: free healthcare in a way that many countries do. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we could also continue or even expand charitable giving,

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Speaker 1: maybe if we were to do stuff like spend less

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Speaker 1: money on our military. Again, it's like a false choice,

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Speaker 1: like it's worth but but of course it's It's because

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Speaker 1: the reason this choice is there is because they're thinking

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Speaker 1: about they're thinking about helping people purely in the form

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Speaker 1: of like nobless obliged charity. Right, They're they're thinking about

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Speaker 1: periods like rich like things that get improved when rich

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Speaker 1: people put money into them. Um. Yeah, so obviously we

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Speaker 1: should help you know, one of these groups before the

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Speaker 1: other because it's more effective and yeahda YadA YadA. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: and I think I think that was one of the

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Speaker 1: things that like the there there's there's a second way

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Speaker 1: you can look at the original sort of problem of

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Speaker 1: we have the same ethical responsibility someone who could sit

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Speaker 1: by car or somebodys on the other side of the world.

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Speaker 1: Is that Like the other way you can look at

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Speaker 1: that is like I don't care about what's happening is

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Speaker 1: some one of the other side of the world, so

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Speaker 1: they don't have to care about this person who get

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Speaker 1: hit by a car. And that seems like people are

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Speaker 1: doing It's like, well, really have to care about this

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Speaker 1: person here because there's some word over there. Yeah, I did,

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Speaker 1: like I can see like how this lines out with

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Speaker 1: some of these like like bigger like meta ethical kind

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Speaker 1: of perspectives on what equality is and what like your

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Speaker 1: ethical obligations are. But then yeah, it seems to just

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Speaker 1: kind of be like a very clear, like very clear,

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Speaker 1: slippery slope to making kind of mouth used and excuses

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Speaker 1: for doing fun. Right, That's that's where the story is heading.

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Speaker 1: So so good. Early two thousands, he does like a

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Speaker 1: ted talk. You know, the momentum around this idea starts

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Speaker 1: to build and it it really gets a shot in

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Speaker 1: the arm. In two thousand thirteen, with the work of

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Speaker 1: an author named Eric Friedman, Uh, Freedman's new book or

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Speaker 1: Freedland's book at the time that was new was called

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Speaker 1: Reinventing Philanthropy a Framework for more effective giving um and

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Speaker 1: he kind of he kind of extends the arguments that

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Speaker 1: singers making. One of the things that he does is

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Speaker 1: he he contrasts what St. Jude's Children's Reach their hospitals

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Speaker 1: are doing to like research children's medical or like like

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Speaker 1: illnesses that that kids suffer and treatments for them, um

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Speaker 1: with the Malagi Provincial Hospital in Angola. Um and he

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Speaker 1: kind of contrasts to patients who are being served at

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Speaker 1: the different hospitals for life threatening conditions and concludes, quote,

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Speaker 1: I'd probably also be very angry at the donors who

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Speaker 1: are continually funding St. Jude and leaving Melangi Provincial woefully

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Speaker 1: under resourced. Why are the patients of St. Jude's so

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Speaker 1: much more worthy of life? Like, Yeah, what a ridiculous

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Speaker 1: way to think about it. Children, fucking asinine. And the

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Speaker 1: fact that like many of the people who are doing

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Speaker 1: these fucking ted talks and contributing to this like a

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Speaker 1: global tech class are the same people who are making

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Speaker 1: fucking millions of dollars off the pharmaceutical industry, which continues

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Speaker 1: to neglect the diseases that people like in the colonial

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Speaker 1: periphery suffer from because there's no profit in selling them drugs,

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Speaker 1: and instead you're selling boldness cures to people in America, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: yes we can, I mean, like you you could if

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Speaker 1: we just if if every single person who had a

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Speaker 1: who's gotten a TED talk had all of their wealth

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Speaker 1: appropriated tomorrow, we could fund both of these hospitals exactly, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be better. It's fundamentally a kind of obscenity

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Speaker 1: to look at pharmaceutical company CEO is making hundreds of

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Speaker 1: millions and billions of dollars, selling people often literal poison

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Speaker 1: and jacking up the price of things like insulin. To

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Speaker 1: look at these text CEO is accumulating tens of billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars and to say, donations to this children's hospital

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Speaker 1: are robbing an Angolic hospital, so I won't be paying

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Speaker 1: my taxes. Yeah, why don't you go funk yourself? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and anyway, like but this is like you can see

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Speaker 1: who this appeals to, righte If you like the kind

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Speaker 1: of people who love the freakonomics books, which are bullshit

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Speaker 1: regressive statistics story please. Yeah, Okay, So one of my

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Speaker 1: professors at Chicago was a political science guy, um or

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Speaker 1: I guess with public policy, and there's there's a thing,

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Speaker 1: there's a thing the freakonomics guy wrote where he was

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Speaker 1: trying to prove that money doesn't actually influence, like, doesn't

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Speaker 1: actually influence left. Yeah, and and you know what my my, my,

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Speaker 1: my professor wrote wrote a paper about that, which is

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Speaker 1: that you know and again this is this is a

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Speaker 1: perfect example of how done this guy is. That he

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Speaker 1: doesn't This is how condis think, right, Like they when

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Speaker 1: they when they go into a field, they go in

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Speaker 1: thinking they already know everything and they can prove whatever

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Speaker 1: they want because, ok, but the thing this guy doesn't understand, right,

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Speaker 1: is that like and this is the thing most people

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Speaker 1: in the US do not understand about how Congress works.

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Speaker 1: Is that like all of the ship that's happening on

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Speaker 1: the floor of Congress, all of those votes that is

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Speaker 1: not that is not real congress, right, that that is

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Speaker 1: fate Congress. Nothing nothing important to actually happens there. All

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Speaker 1: of the important stuff in Congress happens in committees. And

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Speaker 1: so you can't figure out whether money is doing anything

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Speaker 1: by measuring its effects on like votes on the floor,

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Speaker 1: because floor votes are bullshit. All of the important stuff

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Speaker 1: has already by the top, by the tip of floor

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Speaker 1: vote happens, all the important policing stuff has already happened.

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Speaker 1: And so he did this, heard this whole thing where

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Speaker 1: he was you know, he had this great I I.

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Speaker 1: He had this great metric called like uh oh god,

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Speaker 1: and it was it's called like like the the dairy

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Speaker 1: cow coefficients, which is like measuring like how how someone

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Speaker 1: should vote versus like how the dairy cows running. And

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Speaker 1: it shows out, you know, if you look at what

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Speaker 1: these people do in committee, no, yeah, hey, look it

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Speaker 1: turns out a lotting money is unbelievably effective. But because

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Speaker 1: this fucking guy had like and this is something that

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Speaker 1: like like this sort of distinction between between Congress like

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Speaker 1: on the floor and Congress and committee. Like there's a

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Speaker 1: president whose name of forgetting, who has this famous line

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Speaker 1: that like Congress and committee is Congress at work, Congress

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Speaker 1: on the floors, Congress at play or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's like this is just like basic ship

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Speaker 1: that if you know literally anything about how a field works,

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Speaker 1: you cannot do if you wanna, if you wanna. If

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Speaker 1: you want a good breakdown of why the free economics

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Speaker 1: guy is full of shit? Michael Hobbs and Peter sham

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Speaker 1: Shary I think is his last name, have a new

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Speaker 1: podcast called If Books Could Kill and they break down

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Speaker 1: with like citations and everything, like why everything in that

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Speaker 1: book is horseship, but like the reason why it's the

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Speaker 1: only thing I'll disagree with you one Chris is I

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Speaker 1: don't think he's an idiot. I think he's very intelligent,

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Speaker 1: and I think the thing that he's smart to do

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Speaker 1: is he recognizes that there's a specific type of person

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Speaker 1: and engineers and programmers are very likely to be this

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Speaker 1: type of person who kind of fundamentally like their oppositional defiant.

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Speaker 1: If somebody if something, if people say like well this

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Speaker 1: is good or this is bad, um, they're going to

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Speaker 1: take they want to take the opposite stance. And if

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Speaker 1: you can provide the way to like feel like they're

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Speaker 1: enlightened and smart and actually looking at the data by

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Speaker 1: doing it, then they'll take the opposite stance on stuff

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Speaker 1: like it's bad to let people buy elections or it's

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Speaker 1: good to fund children's hospitals just because somebody has made

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Speaker 1: them feel smart for being an asshole. Um, that's what

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Speaker 1: the freakonomics guy does. Malcolm Gladwell does a subtler version

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Speaker 1: of it as a general rule. Um, and that's what

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Speaker 1: that's what the fucking Freedman is doing in this this book.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand thirteen, I found a good review of

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Speaker 1: it in the Stanford Social Innovation Review. Um. That is uh,

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Speaker 1: pretty scathing, Like surprisingly scathing considering it's it's written by

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Speaker 1: a bunch of like Stanford nerds. This approach amounts to

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Speaker 1: a little more than charitable imperialist them, whereby my just

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Speaker 1: causes just in yours to one degree or another, is

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Speaker 1: a waste of precious resources. This approach is not informed

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Speaker 1: giving UM and I think that that does a pretty

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Speaker 1: good job of summarizing what I think is fucked up

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Speaker 1: about it. There's another thing that's really messed up, which

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Speaker 1: is that one of the conclusions that they gets come

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Speaker 1: that they come to here is that, um, they don't

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Speaker 1: recommend or there's an organization called gilve Well that kind

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Speaker 1: of gets gets formed as a result of the book

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Speaker 1: Freedman Rights, and they recommend not to deliver, like not

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Speaker 1: to donate money to disaster assistance in the wake of

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Speaker 1: the Japanese tsunami UM and opposed disaster relief donations in general.

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Speaker 1: UM because quote and this is from Freedman, most of

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Speaker 1: those killed by disasters could not have been saved by donations, UM,

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Speaker 1: which is number one. Like that's the donations are about

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Speaker 1: like rebuilding communities generally. It's not like about the saving lives.

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Speaker 1: Usually it's about like, well, all of the infrastructure was

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Speaker 1: destroyed and it must be rebuilt. Um. But okay, guy,

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Speaker 1: Well it's annoying to you because it's like it's it's

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Speaker 1: not like there's not good critiques of like pacifically always

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Speaker 1: like the Red Cross. Oh, it's all fucked up. Every

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Speaker 1: single yes critique is like the worst possible, like the

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Speaker 1: critiques yea, every single large charitable organization is fucked up.

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Speaker 1: And if you go and talk to people on the ground,

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Speaker 1: they will bitch. Like if you go to fucking war zones,

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Speaker 1: people bitch more about NGOs than the folks shooting at

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Speaker 1: them half the time. Like yeah, they bitch about it

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Speaker 1: being inefficient, about the stuff they're given being like bad

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Speaker 1: quality or like um, like nonsense, like just being handed

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Speaker 1: out to be handed out which is a thing that

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Speaker 1: happens sometimes, and a bitch about well paid aid workers

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Speaker 1: staying in hotels and showing up for a couple of

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Speaker 1: hours to like do a photo op. Um. There's also

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Speaker 1: more incisive, like you know, that's not to say none

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Speaker 1: of it's useful. Like, for example, as many complaints as

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Speaker 1: people have, everyone I've known who has been in a

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Speaker 1: place where medicine sans Frontiers slash Doctors without Borders has operated,

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Speaker 1: while they have complaints about doctors without borders are like,

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Speaker 1: it's good that there's more doctors here. We fucking need them. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's like U h c R. Plenty

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Speaker 1: of things to complain about you and h c R.

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Speaker 1: Every refugee camp I go to. Also, people have fucking

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Speaker 1: water filters, intins and ship because of you and h

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Speaker 1: c R, which isn't nothing. It's a damn site more

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Speaker 1: than nothing, And it's a damn site more than any

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Speaker 1: of these long term ass motherfucker's are doing for people

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Speaker 1: who are I don't know, displaced by war. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's like some of the things that they're doing is

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Speaker 1: like this is very strange kind of attempts to calculate

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Speaker 1: and create markets for human life and human suffering, right,

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Speaker 1: which you see a lot if you were like I've

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Speaker 1: worked in nonprofit, I've worked in in disaster response, I've

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Speaker 1: seen some of these things on the ground, and it

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Speaker 1: it you see these bizarre fucking decisions being made by

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Speaker 1: by someone in an office who is likely never being

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Speaker 1: on the ground of these situations, and it inevitably results

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Speaker 1: in it's within these big organizations at the Red Cross

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Speaker 1: and MSF, but also on a governmental level, right, with

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Speaker 1: people not having the autonomy to respond in a situation

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Speaker 1: to reduce human suffering, and instead to be told to

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Speaker 1: do something which is supposedly evidence based based on someone

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Speaker 1: who's looked at the wrong criteria and come to the

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Speaker 1: wrong conclusion hundreds of miles away. And it's right us,

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Speaker 1: it's bureaucrats, right, And it's like we we've we've, we've

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Speaker 1: we've we've somehow managed to create like the absolute worst

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Speaker 1: possible and night mirror system of you have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of government bureaucrats and then you also have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of sort of privates that we have. We have like

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Speaker 1: different we're watching a collision of different kinds of private

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Speaker 1: sector bureaucrats, like you have, you have your sort of

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Speaker 1: engeo bureaucrats you have, and then you know, and then

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Speaker 1: you have these billionaires who are also just fucking bureaucrats,

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Speaker 1: and all of them are just doing box ticking, and

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Speaker 1: we get like just the absolute worst nightmare fusion of

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Speaker 1: horrible bureaucracy and capitalism, which is a great way to

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Speaker 1: run programs to have people not die. And so much

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Speaker 1: of this comes from what that. The whole like free

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Speaker 1: economics thing to me strikes me like we didn't, like

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Speaker 1: you said, reading the Wikipedia active about subject and then

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Speaker 1: applying trying to find out why you can apply a

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Speaker 1: market to it, and then posting that solution. It's stuff

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Speaker 1: we have. The episodes were dropping on Bastards well the

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Speaker 1: week before this episode will air, are about like why

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Speaker 1: the rent is so damn high? And one of the

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Speaker 1: complaints I have is that there's a specific class of

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Speaker 1: media people who the only answer they will accept is

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Speaker 1: because there's not enough multi family zoning, which is just

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Speaker 1: a part of why the rent is so damn high.

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Speaker 1: And reducing it to just that ignores UM, the price

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Speaker 1: fixing software that tens of millions of Americans, uh like

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Speaker 1: landlords use UM. It ignores shit like airbnb. It ignores

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Speaker 1: like the fucking problems in the construction industry, the lingering

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Speaker 1: effects of the two thousand eight crash. It's very frustrating,

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Speaker 1: and it's the these kind of like freakonomics guys like

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Speaker 1: to do the same thing, like the fucking fre economics student.

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Speaker 1: In particular, one of the things he got famous for

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Speaker 1: is being like, uh, you know, the up and crime

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Speaker 1: in the nineties, this unprecedented fallen crime was due to abortion,

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Speaker 1: which zero I will say again zero people who are

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Speaker 1: experts on the topic of crime in America agree with.

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Speaker 1: What they will say is actually there's a shipload of

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Speaker 1: different things that contributed to the declining crime, and there's

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Speaker 1: a good chance that abortion had an impact. A bigger

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Speaker 1: impact was probably getting the lead out of like reducing

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Speaker 1: environmental let although that gets overstated too. There's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of different ship including like air conditioning, just the fact

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Speaker 1: that like, yeah, now more people have air conditioning, and

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Speaker 1: guess when violence is highest in the summer, when people

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Speaker 1: are stuck around each other outside and like all sorts

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Speaker 1: of computer games. Don't people crimes because something else to do,

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Speaker 1: but it's you want to if you're gonna be doing

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Speaker 1: the kind of like if you're gonna be doing Ted

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Speaker 1: talk fucking uh public works philosophy, then it helps to

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Speaker 1: just be able to like make one big Malcolm glad

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Speaker 1: while style fucking reveal. Anyway, that's how all these people

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Speaker 1: exist and how all of their morality is informed. After

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Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, Friedman is kind of like followed up

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Speaker 1: by this guy named William McCaskill, who was currently the

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Speaker 1: he's a Scottish philosopher um, which god, it's easy to

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Speaker 1: get called a philosopher these days, um. And he is

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Speaker 1: he is a personal friend of Elon Musk. When must

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Speaker 1: tests messages got released as part of that court filing,

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Speaker 1: some of them were with McCaskill um, who was considering

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Speaker 1: like putting a bunch of money into buying Twitter. They

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Speaker 1: ultimately decided not to, I think because they just like

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Speaker 1: it seems like McCaskill just didn't trust that Musk had

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Speaker 1: any sort of planned So he is, I will say this,

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Speaker 1: not an idiot, um, but he's wrong in ways that

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Speaker 1: are are deeply fucked up. And he wrote a book

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Speaker 1: that is currently a bestseller. It was published in August

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Speaker 1: called What We Owe the Future and the gist of

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Speaker 1: this is that, like it's merging this kind of effective

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Speaker 1: altruism with what's called long term is um, which is

430
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: this argument that morally we have to consider the impact

431
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: of our actions as not just on people alive today

432
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: but in future your people, which is fine. There's actually

433
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: a lot to that idea, But the way it always

434
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: works out is we can't pay attention to problems that

435
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: people are suffering now. We have to we have to

436
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: work on saving the world from these bigger problems. Um.

437
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: And again it's almost it's almost exclusively used as an

438
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: argument for guys like Musk to like, well, we shouldn't

439
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: tax billionaires out of existence because I you know, I

440
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: see this that with clarity the problems that we face,

441
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: and the long term solution is for me to be

442
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: able to push for these specific things that I think

443
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: are the only way to save humanity. Right. I'm getting

444
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: ahead of myself a little bit here. Let's talk about

445
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: mccaskell again. Um, when he was at Oxford. He's an

446
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: Oxford boy, James. Uh, look at it we've had in

447
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: Bangus sure. Yeah. Uh. He started a group called Giving

448
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: what we Can in two thousand nine. Uh, and members

449
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: were supposed to give away ten percent of what they

450
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: earned to the most cost effective charities possible, which is fine,

451
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that idea basically, and it was

452
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: like supposed to be basically a lifelong promise that like,

453
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, we're all because you assume Oxford people, a

454
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: lot of them are going to wind up making very

455
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: good money. You know, as we move into our careers,

456
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: this will be a more and more influential kind of

457
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: giving um. But yeah, dropped the board. If they'd had

458
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: me there that, Yeah, those meetings might have gone a

459
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: little bit different in Yeah, Over time though, he's kind

460
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: of moved into he's merged this and and again the

461
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: whole effective altruism movement. A lot of it does start

462
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: reasonably with people being like, are these charities were donating

463
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: to working? How can we make sure they're effective? Like

464
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: what can we do to make giving um work better?

465
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: Which is again perfectly fine, but very quickly gets married

466
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: to this kind of long termist thinking um and they

467
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: focus instead of stuff like, for example, funding hospitals, stuff

468
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: like preventing an artificial intelligence from killing everybody, or like

469
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: sending people to distant planets, which are like cool, and

470
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: sci fi I and everything, but also deeply unrealistic. I'll

471
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: say it right now. Our our threat is not that

472
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: an AI kills us all. There's certainly a threat that

473
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: different kind of artificial intelligences are used by authoritarians to

474
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: make life worse for everybody. But by the way, Peter

475
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: Teal is a big back or of effective altruism. He's

476
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: one of the people building that fucking aim. This is

477
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: the guy who wrote that thing about earning to give

478
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: right like that. He was like, this is the guy

479
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: who did that. Yeah, okay, I'm familiar. Promise to never

480
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: take more than thirty one dollars or something and income

481
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: over the course like of a year in his life

482
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: and give charity. He gives all his book profits to charity.

483
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: But he also runs an organization that is spending more

484
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: and more on keeping its people comfortable because I guess

485
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't have the money personally to spend anyway. I

486
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: think there's some sketchy ship there. Yeah, this whole idea,

487
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we're gonna get today right like like,

488
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: it completely overlooks our obligation morally to agitate for structural change,

489
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: right like. It says like if you can become a

490
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: billionaire through whatever bullshit, evil, fucking exploitative grift you can,

491
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: and then give nine of that away. You're still perpetuating

492
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: a system in which one grift gets rich and thousands

493
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: of people die without fucking clean water. But that's okay

494
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: because you also donated some water filters or whatever like.

495
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: And it's not okay, and it makes me very angry. Actually, yeah, yeah,

496
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: it makes me angry too. And it's one of those

497
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: things if you look at, like, here's all the charities

498
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: that mc caskell and his organization are putting hundreds of

499
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: millions dollars of dollars into. They're not all bad. A

500
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: lot of them are good, and I'm glad that money

501
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,479
Speaker 1: is going there, but there's always this strain of deeply

502
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: unsettling logic running through it. Now, I want to quote

503
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: from a Time article that I think kind of gets

504
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: in a very subtle way, has this guy's number. When

505
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: I start thinking in practice, if you've got if you've

506
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: got some things that look robustly good in both the

507
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: short and the long term, that definitely makes you feel

508
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: a lot better about something that is only good from

509
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 1: a very long term perspective. He says. This year, for example,

510
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: he personally donated to the Let Exposure Elimination Project, which

511
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: aims to in childhood let exposure, and the Atlas Fellowship,

512
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: which supports talented high school students around the world to

513
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: work on pressing problems. Not all issues are equally tractable,

514
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: but McCaskill still cares about a range. When we met

515
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: An Oxford, he expressed concern for the ongoing political crisis

516
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: in Sri Lanka, though admitted he probably wouldn't tweet about it.

517
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: The answer, he believes, is to be honest about it.

518
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: In philanthropy, big donors typically choose causes based on their

519
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: personal passions and ultra subjectivist approach. McCaskill says, where everything

520
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: is seemingly justifiable on the basis of doing some good,

521
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: he doesn't think that's tenable. If you can save someone

522
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: from drowning or ten people from dying in a burning building,

523
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: what should you do, he proposes, It is not a

524
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: morally appropriate response to say, well, I'm particularly passionate about drowning,

525
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: so I'm going to save one person from drowning rather

526
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: than the ten people from burning. And that's exactly the

527
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: situation we find ourselves in and like, no, it is not.

528
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: That is nonsense because, among other things, if you're a

529
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: random person, uh, and you have a choice between saving

530
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: someone from drowning or ten people from dying in a

531
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: burning building, well you actually probably don't because satan people

532
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: from drowning is a really difficult technical skill, which is

533
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: why people usually die when they try to rescue whether

534
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: folks who were drowning. The guy the creator of Hugo

535
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: died trying to from drowning. It's really hard and dangerous,

536
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: and also so is rescuing people from a burning building,

537
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: which is why we have firefighters. And guess what, a

538
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: lot of firefighters may not be very good at saving

539
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: people from drowning because they have not trained for that.

540
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: There are different skills, and these are both problems, but

541
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: they're different skills. But what have you instead spend that

542
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: time buying some testlas dogs and then sold them and

543
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: instead invested in Uh I know, I fink it's something

544
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: that stops water from from drowning people. Like, none of

545
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: the problems we have are are None of the problems

546
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to say right now, zero percent of the

547
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: problems we have are the result of some sort of

548
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: like lifeguard firefighter standing in between a burning building and

549
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: like a yacht race gone wrong and going oh god, no,

550
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: it's like the trade doing the troning problem. He's he's

551
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: just he's trying to do Tony problem. It's funny that

552
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: he's talked about Sri Lanka too, because it's like this

553
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: is the perfect example. This is the perfect example of

554
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: a political crisis that is like completely intractable to all

555
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: of these like no, no, no, none of these people

556
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: donating the charities can like do literally anything about that,

557
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: because that's actually you know, like this like the crisis

558
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: of Sri Lanka is a is a is a both

559
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: both is it like it is, but it is both

560
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: a sort of short term crisis of this like you know,

561
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: like utterly horrific genocidal political elites, and then also a

562
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: sort of long term crisis about like the sort of

563
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: structural position of like specificcific countries and sort of the

564
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: global colonial system. This is not something any of these

565
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: people can solve. The only the only thing, the only

566
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: way any of these people could solve this is if

567
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: the people of Sri Lanka like just expropriated them. But

568
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, but he but because because because because these people,

569
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: like because Sri Lankas do not have access to this

570
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: guy and like six guns. Right, there's no there's no way,

571
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, he can just sort of sit there with

572
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: his chair going, well, it's a crisis. I'm gonna tweet

573
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: about it. I'm not gonna tweet about it. He's yeah,

574
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: I was. I was simply talked to newspapers about it

575
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: in tweeting. What what I would say is that, like,

576
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: here's the actual solution to the stupid problem this guy

577
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: came up with. Well, if we were to tax all

578
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: of the billionaires to the point that they weren't billionaires

579
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: and then put that into a massive new like works

580
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: progress fund that instead of like just building national parks,

581
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: provided like rental assistance to millions of Americans in exchange

582
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: for them learning how to fight fires and getting basic

583
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: life gave saving care and getting trained in things um

584
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: like that, so that they could deal with the consequences

585
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: of climate change and be able to protect their communities

586
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: effectively and be incentivized to gain the actual technical skills

587
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: that would allow them to protect people. Well, then you

588
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: would have more people capable of saving someone from a

589
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: burning building or from drowning. Um, but anyway, whatever, that's

590
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: that's that's my that's my pie in the sky. Leftist

591
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: solution to that is use funds taken from the rich

592
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: in order to incentivize people to gain the skills that

593
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: will allow them to protect their communities in the event

594
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: of disasters. Um, anyway, whatever. Uh So, over the last decade,

595
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: all of this thinking has increasingly given away from a

596
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: wonky theory on charitable giving by bighearted, guilt ridden millennial kids.

597
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: And that's that's how this guy has always framed in articles,

598
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: McCaskill is. He's like, in fact, I'm gonna fucking I'm

599
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: gonna scroll down here to my notes and I'm gonna

600
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: find the section of the article to like show you

601
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: the way he gets fucking talked about in all of

602
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: these quote. Thirteen years ago, William McCaskill found himself standing

603
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: in the aisle of a grocery store, agonizing over which

604
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: breakfast cereal to buy. If he switched to a cheaper

605
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: brand for a year, could he put aside enough money

606
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: to save someone's life? Like that's the Yeah, that's sort

607
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: of like that you have where your engagement with global

608
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: poverty is in the fucking Cheerios aisle exactly exactly the

609
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: yeah of weight Rose in Oxford. I'm sure like, no, funk, Sorry,

610
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm so fucking angry at this ship. And it's it's clearly,

611
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: very clearly I can see that this is going towards

612
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: an excuse for incredibly wealthy people paying funk all in

613
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: taxes because they claim that that it's not an efficient

614
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: way to do things, and they completely ignore all these

615
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: structural things which have to exist for their effective altruism

616
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: to occur in the first place. Right, Yeah, it's um anyway,

617
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: this is effectively like over the years given away from

618
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: this again kind of this wonky theory by guilty millennial

619
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: kids to this pop philosophy for the fintech set, because

620
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: that's how these guilt written millennial kids wound up making

621
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of money. Um. And yeah, that time article

622
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: gives like I just want to read another quote from

623
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: it about one of the other guys who's involved in

624
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: putting a lot of money into McCaskill's organization quote Mr

625
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: Mr Bankman Freed makes his donations through the ft X Foundation,

626
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: which is given away a hundred and forty million, of

627
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: which ninety million has gone through the group's future fund

628
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: towards long term causes. Mr McCaskill and Mr Bankman Fried's

629
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: relationship as an important piece and understanding the community's evolution

630
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: in recent years. The two men first met in two

631
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, when Mr Bankman Freed was a student

632
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: at M I T with an interest in utilitarian philosophy.

633
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: Over lunch, Mr Bankman Freed said that he was interested

634
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: in working she related to animal welfare. Mr McCaskill suggested

635
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: he might do more good by entering a high earning

636
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: field and donating money to the cause and by working

637
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: for directly. Mr Bankman Freed contacted the Humane League and

638
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: other charities, asking if they would prefer his time or

639
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: donations based on his expected earnings if he went to

640
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: work in tech or finance. They opted for the money,

641
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: and he embarked on a remunerative career, eventually founding the

642
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency Exchange nineteen. First off, that guy absolutely did not

643
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: call any charities. Um, sorry, this was a four. This

644
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: was from the Forbes article I used, not the Time article. Um.

645
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: First off, I don't believe that he but if he did,

646
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: it was something like, Hey, I don't have any skills

647
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: or training. Do you want money or do you want

648
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: me to volunteer? And they were like, who then is this? Kids, like,

649
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: we don't we don't need another asshole wandering around here

650
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: trying to touch the cats. Um, send us you a check. Yeah,

651
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: And so instead of I don't know, getting trained as

652
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: a vet tech or something where he would actually be

653
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: able to help animals, he founded a cryptocurrency exchange and

654
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: contributed to the burning of massive amounts of carbon that

655
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: will contribute to mass deforestation in the deaths of animals

656
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,479
Speaker 1: around the world. That's good. I think that there's another

657
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: aspect of this, which I think is sort of under explored,

658
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: which is that utilitarianism is genuinely one of the greatest

659
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: evil's humanity has ever created, every every bad decision anyone

660
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: has ever made. If you look behind it, you can

661
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: find your deilitarian is like it's a basis of the

662
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: basis of all economics. It's horrible, haything bad in the world.

663
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: It is an engine that allows rich people to feel

664
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: good about hurting poor people. That's that's what it is.

665
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 1: But and that's what I think this all makes clear.

666
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: So the actual rhetoric from these people is always like it,

667
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: especially if you're just kind of encountering it out in

668
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: the wild. It's hard to argue with a lot of

669
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: the time because they'll be like, well, look, we need

670
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: look at what's going to help the most people, and

671
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: that's why we're you know, setting up None of this

672
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: matters if we don't deal with this problem or that problem.

673
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: And it's it's Taylor made to sound profound and again

674
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: and like a Ted talk or the website for the

675
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: Charitable Giving organization aimed at getting you to like put

676
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 1: ten percent of your income to long termist causes. But again,

677
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: the funked up ship crusts kind of around the edges

678
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: for the most part in lines like these from a

679
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: time profile on the Castle. The first public protest against

680
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: African American slavery was the six eighty eight Germantown Quaker petition.

681
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: Slavery was only Yeah. Slavery was only abolished in the

682
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: British Empire in eighteen thirty three decades later in the US,

683
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: and not until nineteen sixty two in Saudi Arabia. History

684
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: encourages mccaskell to favor gradual progress, so for revolution, abolition,

685
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: he says, is maybe the single best moral change ever.

686
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: It's certainly up there with feminism, and they're extremely incremental.

687
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: They don't seem that way because we enormously shrink the past.

688
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: But it's almost three hundred years we're talking about. Um.

689
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: That wasn't the result of incremental change. It was the

690
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: result against the people who enslaves, fighting viciously against any

691
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: attempts to end slavery. Like it was a it was

692
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: a battle. It was a series of in fact, a

693
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: series of revolutions in a lot of cases including like

694
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: the Haitian Revolution and guys like John Brown. There were

695
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: a ship bleeding Kansas. There were a shipload of people

696
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: died fighting in order to end slavery. Like yeah, it's

697
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: a civil war, dude, what do you call that? That's

698
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: not incremental. A million people shot each other to death,

699
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: you know, And it's it's so far as we can

700
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: talk about sort of income with the progress, it's stuff

701
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 1: like okay, So the like the slaves in Haiti freed

702
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: themselves by means of revolution and then sent a bunch

703
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: of guns and weapons to people in Latin America so

704
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: that their armies could march through Latin America and end slavery,

705
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: Like many revolutions had to occur to end slavery because

706
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: it was a powerful system at the center of global

707
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: capital that a lot of entrenched and heavily armed interests

708
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: were willing to die to maintain. Which also is fun

709
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: because I I I bet, I bet if you look

710
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: through these people supply chains, and this is almost certainly

711
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,479
Speaker 1: true of Elon must supply chains, like I mean, okay,

712
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: must supply chains. In China. You can have some kind

713
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 1: of debate as to whether the kinds of forced labor

714
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: you're going to be encounting our slavery, Like I I

715
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: bet if you look through night present the people who

716
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: are affective aulters, you can find slavery in their supply chains,

717
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: and their arguments will be like, well, I can't slavery

718
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: and must supply chain because I guarantee it. They're all

719
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: in the tech industry, and like nobody has a laptop

720
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: or a smartphone without the use of rare earth minerals

721
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: that are like acquired via slavery. It's it's the same

722
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: thing if you're wearing clothes, you have something that slavery

723
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: was involved in. Because the garment industry, slavery is literally

724
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: inextricable from it. Like the company that has tried the

725
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: hardest to remove slavery from their from their production line, Patagonia,

726
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: UM still continually finds like, oh, no, they're smart. Yeah,

727
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: they're pretty good. I'm going out, But yeah, they put

728
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: a load of money into that ship and they still

729
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: it is hard. Um. Anyway, UM, I'm going to read

730
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: another fun quote from the Forbes article. Mr Bankman Freed

731
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: said he expected to give away the bulk of his

732
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 1: fortune in the next tender twenty years. If you're worried

733
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: about existential risks of a really bad pandemic, you sort

734
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: of can't stall on that. Mr Bankman Freed said in

735
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: an interview. That is how his text messages popped up

736
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: among hundreds of others sent to Mr Musk. Mr Bankman

737
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: Freed ultimately did not join Mr Musk's bid. I don't

738
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: know exactly what Elon's goals are going to be with Twitter.

739
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: Mr Bankman Freed said in an interview there was a

740
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: little bit of ambiguity there. He had his hands full

741
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: in the month that followed his cryptocurrency prices crashed. The

742
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: Twitter deal has been volatile in its own way, with

743
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: Mr Musk trying to back out, before recently announcing his

744
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: intention to follow through that after all. In August, Mr

745
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: Musk retweeted Mr mccaskeell's book announcement to his hundred and

746
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: eight million followers with the observation worth reading this is

747
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: a close match to my philosophy. So that's that's kind

748
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: of the surface of where we are now. Um. It

749
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: is not. It doesn't quite get at all of the

750
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: things that are deeply fucked up. And for that I

751
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: wanted to quote from another article. UM. I found an

752
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: a on a E O N. It's an essay by h.

753
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: Got Let make it the author here because it's it's

754
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: quite good about long term as. It's an essay called

755
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: against long termism by Emil P. Torres, a phb candidate

756
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: at a university in Hanover in Germany uh Leibnitz Universitat.

757
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel silly every time I try

758
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: to say Germans, so I'm not going to try that hard.

759
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: But the article is very good, um, and it kind

760
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: of gets at how this effective altruism movement has merged

761
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: with long term is um in a way that specifically

762
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: exists to buoy the interests of wealthy authoritarians around the

763
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: world quote. This has roots in the work of Nick Bostrom,

764
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: who founded the grandiosely named Future of Humanity Institute f

765
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: HI in two thousand five, and Nick Bestead, a research

766
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: associated FHI and a program officer at Open Philanthropy. It

767
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: has been defended most publicly by the HI philosopher Toby Ord,

768
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: author of the precipice Existential Risk in the Future of Humanity.

769
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: Long Termism is the primary research focus of both the

770
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: Global Priorities Institute and an f HI in linked organization

771
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: directed by Hillary Greeves, and the Forethought Foundation run by

772
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: William mccaskell, who also holds positions at f HI and

773
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: g p I. Adding to the tangle of titles, names,

774
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: institutes and acronyms, long termism is one of the main

775
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: cause areas of the so called effective altruism movement, which

776
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: was introduced by Ord in around two thousand even eleven

777
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: and now boast of having a mind boggling forty six

778
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: billion dollars in committed funding. It is difficult to overstate

779
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 1: how influential long termism has become. Karl Marx in forty

780
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: five declarded that the point of philosophy isn't merely to

781
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: interpret the world, but change it, and this is exactly

782
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: what long term USTs have been doing with extraordinary success.

783
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: Consider that Elon Musk, who is cited and endorsed Bostroom's work,

784
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: has donated one point five million dollars to FHI through

785
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: its sister organization, even more grandiosely named Future of Life Institute.

786
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: This was co founded by the multimillionaire tech entrepreneur Jan Talinn,

787
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: who has a recently noted doesn't believe that climate change

788
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: poses an existential threat to humanity because of his adherence

789
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: to the long termist ideology. Meanwhile, the billionaire libertarian and

790
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: Donald Trump supporter Peter Teal, who once gave the keynote

791
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: address and an effective Altruism conference, has donated large sums

792
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: of money to the Machine Intelligence Research Institute, whose mission

793
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: is to save in humanity from super intelligent machines and

794
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: is deeply intertwined with long termist values. Other organizations, such

795
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: as g p I and the Foe Thought Foundation are

796
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: funding essay contests and scholarships and an effort to draw

797
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: young people into the community. Well, it's an open secret

798
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: of the Washington d C. Base Center for Security and

799
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: Emergence and Emerging Technologies c SET aims to place long

800
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: termsts within high level US government positions to shape national apology.

801
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: In fact, c SET was established by Jason Mathani, a

802
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: former research assistant and f HI who is now the

803
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: Deputy Assistant to US President Joe Biden for Technology and

804
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: National Security. Or It himself, has, astonishingly for a philosopher,

805
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: advised the World Health Organization, the World Bank, the World

806
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: Economic Forum, the U S National Intelligence Council, the UK

807
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: Prime Minister's Office, Cabinet, all US in Government Office for Science,

808
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: and he recently contributed to a report from the Secretary

809
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: General of the United Nations that specifically mentions long term

810
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: is um. The short answer is that elevating the fulfillment

811
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: of humanities supposed potential above all else could not trivially

812
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: increase the probability that actual people those alive today in

813
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: the near future suffer extreme harms even death. Consider As

814
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: I noted elsewhere, the long termist ideology inclines its adherence

815
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: to take an Insusian attitude towards climate change. Why because

816
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: even if climate change causes island nations to disappear, triggers

817
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: mass migrations and kills millions of people. It probably isn't

818
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: going to compromise our long term potential over the coming

819
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: trillions of years. If one takes a cosmic view of

820
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: the situation, even a climate catastrophe that cuts the human

821
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: population by se for the next two millennial will, in

822
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, be nothing more than a

823
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: small blip, the equivalent of a nine year old man

824
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: having stubbed his toe when he was two. So this

825
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: is evil, right, Like, this is like, this is vicious

826
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: and vile and cruel, and it's one of those things.

827
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: There's a book that I've talked about on the show

828
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: a couple of times UM that is quite popular called

829
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: Ministry of the Future UM, And I think it's a

830
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: very good book. And one of the attitude, like the

831
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: basic premise of it is that climate change is addressed

832
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: finally and the worst aspects of it are are dealt

833
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: with and like begin to be repaired because of the

834
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: establishment of an organization called the Ministry of the Futures.

835
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: Its international organization that exists to like look out for

836
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: the interests of unborn people and animals and plant species.

837
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: And part of how they do this is by murdering

838
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: billionaires in their beds uh and blowing up planes to

839
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: in international air travel, which is so there's a version.

840
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Like again, the idea that like, we should be thinking

841
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: about people and and living creatures who have not yet

842
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: been born is reasonable, and the reasonable conclusion of that

843
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: is and so we should deal with things like climate

844
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: change and stop like thoughtlessly degrading our environment so that

845
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: people in the future will be able to live a

846
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: quality life. Um. The argument that these long terms are

847
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: making is no, that's foolish, because in a true billion years,

848
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: none of it will matter. And I intend to be

849
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: alive in a trillion years because I will be an

850
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 1: immortal machine man billionaire forever. You know, it's about these people,

851
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: these people like you think about this. If you believe this,

852
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: the only literally, the only thing that you should spend

853
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: your time doing is trying to dismantle every single nuclear

854
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: weapon on the planet. Like you, you you should be

855
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: forming your own private armies to like storm military basis

856
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 1: to destroy nukes. And none of them will ever fucking

857
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: do this. All these people will back candidates who like

858
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: want to have a nuclear weapons. All these people who

859
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: will back candidates who like, like, you know, I I

860
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: wonder how many these people personally supported dropping a nuke

861
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: in the middle of a rock in two thousand four,

862
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: Like god, yeah, anyway, this is probably that's probably enough.

863
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: I wanted to At some point, I think we will

864
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: be doing a more detailed look into some of these people,

865
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: and a more detailed look into some Maybe maybe it's

866
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: a Bastards episode, but this is just getting more relevant,

867
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: and I wanted to give people I wanted to connect

868
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 1: them with some like some some resources, particularly that article

869
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: on a on about the dangers of long termism and

870
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: uh yeah, anyway, be be advised. This is what the

871
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: fucking assholes who have spent like think about how many

872
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: cool things the tech industry has actually made in the

873
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: last decade. It's it's not many, right, Like it's mostly

874
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: been vaporware, like most of the different big apps and

875
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: stuff have all are in the process of collapsing right now.

876
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: That's why the industry is falling apart as we record

877
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: this in the metaverse. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Legs

878
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: like you're sitting right next to me, James, except for

879
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: you have no laying legs in. Your mouth is opened

880
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: in an endless, wordless scream. Um finally, anyway, that's what

881
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: these assholes want to do, what they've done to the Internet,

882
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: sucking the vibrancy and the life and like the freedom

883
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: out of this this incredible creation and turning it into

884
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: uh an engine for sucking your personal data out and

885
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: marketing things to you and making you angry all the

886
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: time as much as possible, and convincing your parents and

887
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: grandparents that fucking Joe Biden has been replaced by a

888
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: lizard man. Um. Like the people who did that, uh

889
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 1: now think that we can't take care of people today

890
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: because that would distract from our mission to take care

891
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: of people who have never been born a trillion years

892
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: from now. Um, anyway, fuck them. Everything's dead. Wait no sorry, Um,

893
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: it's it could happen here a podcast about stuff falling

894
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: apart and today about the fact that things fell less

895
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: apart than people were worried they were going to fall apart,

896
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: and in some ways got might get better. So that's

897
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: kind of that's kind of nice. Sure, Yeah, on the whole,

898
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about the mid terms today and on the

899
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: whole Okay, I feel okay, an excellent descripture. Yeah, it's

900
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: the mid terms equivalent of getting like an ounce of

901
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: of of like mid grade weed for like fifty bucks,

902
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: but you find out later that like kind of in

903
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: the middle of it was like half of a paper

904
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: towel roll that they stuck in there to push up

905
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: the weight. But it's like, well, at least I got weed.

906
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: All right, I've introduced the podcast Who do We? Who

907
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: do we have here? Today? Oh? You got me? I'm

908
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: James Still that's right. H Yeah, I'm Garrison. I didn't vote.

909
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: Look at you. Wow. Way to be a way to

910
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: be an anarchist, Garrison or can Adien same deaf democracy? Yeah?

911
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: I like committing voter fraud for the Democratic Party. Yeah yeah.

912
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: I also decided to not vote for the people who

913
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: are doing like the war on drugs in California. Right now, Garrison,

914
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: you you continued your your years long tradition of submitting

915
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: a crew drawing of the Premier of Canada um to

916
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: to a ballot box ship. Let's Trudeau coming out of

917
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: a cave. Who else do we have on with us?

918
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: Right now? I'm here, Christopher Wong, and I absolutely despise elections.

919
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: So I brought my friend who actually does like elections

920
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: that's excellent token election in Jordan pretty much. Yes, Hi,

921
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: I am Jack. I am Christopher's token friend, as mentioned um,

922
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 1: and I'm here partly because of nepotism for knowing Christopher

923
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: and partly because, as he reminded me, before we got started,

924
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: I had a ninety three accurate prediction rating for all

925
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: of the elections that I was paying attention to this year,

926
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: so things, congratulations. I only made one prediction before this election,

927
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: which was, well, he doesn't feel like dr oz is

928
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: gonna win, which which means you did better than a

929
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: lot of the people who are paid to do this. Like, Okay,

930
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: that man, that man said the word crew didtay in

931
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: an election in Pennsylvania, Like there was he was never good.

932
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: The moment that d came out, he was going to lose.

933
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: That's much more nuanced than my my political analysis, which

934
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: was the fact that the other guy was much taller

935
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: than him and also way hot. Like if they just

936
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: settled it with a fistfight, Pat could have taken it. Yep,

937
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: which that seems good. Uh, it was fun. It was

938
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: a fun election. We all had a good time. I

939
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: enjoy that. Fucking Marjorie Taylor Green and j d vance

940
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: are going to be in Congress together. That's going to

941
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: be fun for everybody. We're all gonna have a good time.

942
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: But I suspect there's probably some stuff we haven't like.

943
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: As you may have noticed listeners, we didn't do much

944
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 1: in the way of pre mid term content because we

945
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: all hate it. But but now now we're talking about it.

946
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: So what what? What? What should we know about these

947
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: mid terms? What? What? What kind of occurred to you

948
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: as somebody who's like actually has spent a lot more

949
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: time delving into the nitty gritty and thinking about what

950
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: was likely to happen. Um. So I told Christopher I

951
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: would say this, and in varness, I do genuinely believe it.

952
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: I think the story of these mid terms, when historians

953
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: look back at it, will be that the Dobbs Supreme

954
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: Court decision had the same electoral impact in the United

955
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: States as nine eleven did. I think that is going

956
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: to be like how this plays out over time, um,

957
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 1: because when you look at how things were going before

958
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: Dabbs and then how things were going after Dabbs, obviously

959
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: things got a lot worse on the policy front because

960
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: abortion became illegal in a lot of states. Um. But

961
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: the election essentially flipped overnight from what was going to

962
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: be a Republican wave to the even split that we got.

963
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: And that makes this one of three post World War

964
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: two midterms where the incumbent party did well, and so

965
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: this is definitely going to be aim in term that

966
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: gets lectured about in policy one on one courses for

967
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: the next hundred years. Also one of those, one of

968
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: those other three was to push le because it was yeah, yeah,

969
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: actually really because obviously I was aware, just because there

970
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: was so much coverage saying like, this is the best

971
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: performance from an incumbent party in a mid term since

972
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: two thousand two. So it was aware of that fact,

973
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: but for some reason I hadn't put it together in

974
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: my head that way that like, yeah, the this means that,

975
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: like the Supreme Court's decision on Roevie Wade had kind

976
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: of a comparable electoral impact to flying two planes into

977
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: a pair of skyscrapers, said the Pentagon plates. I mean,

978
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: to be fair whatever, to be fair, there Spreme Court

979
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: have killed Like in terms of the immediate impact, the

980
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: Screme Court will have killed more people than that by

981
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: like Thursday or something. So yeah. The other one was

982
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: was fdos fest made term right. Uh No, the other

983
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: one so that so I said, post Woe War two.

984
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: The other The other one was when the American electorate

985
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: apparently got so mad at Republicans in p team Bill

986
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: Clinton that they decided to vote for Democrats in a

987
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: good term. Again. Well that's yeah, that's the other thing

988
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: Biden can do if it, if it goes south. It's

989
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: good to know their uptions. Yeah, but I think non

990
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: zero chance that will happen any way. I mean, I

991
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: guess we're still waiting. Who knows. Yeah, dog Brandon, I

992
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: enjoyed from from an entertainment perspective, the like three months

993
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: of lucidity that we got out of Joe Biden this year.

994
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,919
Speaker 1: We'll see how many more he has in him. Yeah,

995
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: who knows? So yeah, like it. So you're you're suggesting

996
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: that Dobbs has been like the really pivotal thing here

997
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 1: in swinging a lot of these close races, right, absolutely, um,

998
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: and Dobbs definitely being the number one factor. Um. Tragically,

999
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: because it's very cringe and I wish this hadn't happened.

1000
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: The January six investigation does actually seem to have also

1001
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: swung several important races. That's I mean, I'm interested in

1002
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this, but I actually I'm glad that

1003
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: it mattered that they tried to do a coup, and

1004
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm glad that people cared about that. I'm glad it mattered.

1005
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: I just I just think it sucks that because the

1006
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 1: way they went about the investigation was so incredibly terrible. Yeah. Um,

1007
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: like Marrick Garland is going to go down as like

1008
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 1: one of the most cowardly attorney generals in American history.

1009
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, it's it's pretty clear that in a

1010
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 1: lot of races like the the investigation made a difference.

1011
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: I think this is really clear if we're getting into

1012
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: like very kind of under the hood. Um, Democrats ran

1013
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: the table in competitive state level secretary of state races,

1014
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: and these are the officials that run elections. UM. And

1015
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 1: not only did Democrats run the table, pretty much every

1016
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 1: single one of those candidates outperformed the top of the ticket.

1017
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: So they outperformed governor and Senate candidates. UM. So there

1018
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: are a lot of people. This is another big story

1019
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: the midterms is that swing voter. Your swing voting is

1020
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: back not swing voting, I'm sorry, Split ticket voting is back. Um,

1021
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: there were quite a few there were quite a few

1022
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: millions of voters this year who voted for Republican in

1023
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: the Senate or Republican and for governor and then a

1024
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: Democrat to run their states actual elections. That's kind of good.

1025
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:09,760
Speaker 1: It's so that's also like speaks promisingly of people's engagement

1026
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: with the political system and education about it and the

1027
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: awareness of what these different things do. Yes, um, but

1028
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: other like like that, other than that, but just overall

1029
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: high level Dobbs was the big one. Um. There is

1030
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: a person whose name I'm going to unfortunately mispronounce and

1031
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: that I should have looked up beforehand. So all right,

1032
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: this is a safe place for that, thank you. But

1033
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: there's a person there's a guy down in Louisiana named

1034
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: John uh cool Van I think is my best guests,

1035
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: And he is one of the people who makes money

1036
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 1: off of like looking at elections, um. And his big

1037
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: thing is that you can predict the outcome of elections

1038
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: just by looking at the nationwide composition of the primary electorate.

1039
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: So like, if Republicans turn out more voters in their

1040
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: primaries and Democrats to Republicans are going to win the

1041
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: election and vice versa. This has been true in pretty

1042
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: much every single election for the last thirty years or

1043
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: so UM, and he unfortunately got led astray um this

1044
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: year because nationwide at the end of the primary season,

1045
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: Republicans were up by about like five points, and so

1046
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: he was insisting the whole rest of the campaign that

1047
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,760
Speaker 1: Republicans are going to win. That's obviously not really what happened.

1048
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: But if you look at pre Dbs versus post OBS,

1049
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: the primary elector at post OBS was Democrats plus like

1050
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: up by one point. That is the electorate that we

1051
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: got in the mid terms. So Dobbs set the tone

1052
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: of like what the mid terms were gonna be, Um,

1053
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: because we are not going to be legalizing abortion nationwide

1054
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: in the next two years, because we are going to

1055
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: have a Republican House almost certainly Dobbs is almost definitely

1056
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: going to be a huge factor in twenty four as well.

1057
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and I guess that, like because the question

1058
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: I had, and I think a lot of people had

1059
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: running into this, especially people who are not election lovers,

1060
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: is like do things matter? Right? Like? It was Dobbs

1061
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: going to matter? And was the were the constant sort

1062
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: of Republican assaults on on the ability of people to vote.

1063
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: Was the fucking attacks on children's hospitals and on trans

1064
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: case and stuff like, was all of that going to work?

1065
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: Like do do things matter still? And uh, you know,

1066
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: we'll have to renswer that question. But it does kind

1067
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: of seem like that's the positive take out from this

1068
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: is not like, you know, it's it's probably probably too

1069
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: early to say are we seeing some sort of grand

1070
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,479
Speaker 1: progressive swing or are people coming around on or Biden

1071
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: or whatever things politicos want to take. But it does

1072
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: kind of seem that, like on a on a very

1073
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: like ground floor level. Uh, it mattered that the Republicans

1074
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: were doing awful things, Yes, mattered. Um, I think Christopher

1075
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: and I have talked about how, in his words, Leah

1076
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: Thomas cost the Michigan Republican Party in the election. Uh,

1077
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about that, because I think a lot

1078
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: of people, I mean, yeah, let's yeah, let's talk about Okay,

1079
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: I'll give the I'll give the meme version of it first.

1080
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: The meme version of it basically is that there was Okay,

1081
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: so there there there was a report released by the

1082
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: Republican Party in Michigan after the election when they sort

1083
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: of got hammered, and part of what they're talking about

1084
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 1: was like, okay, so inflation is like seven point seven

1085
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: percent right now, right, this is the freest election anyone

1086
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: has ever been handed, like in human history, Like a

1087
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: child could have won this election, and the Republicans managed

1088
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: to blow it. And one of these they talk about

1089
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: this they spent they spent like twenty five million olders,

1090
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 1: like specifically on ads about trans like trans kids in sports,

1091
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: and everybody missed it. Was just like what the yes,

1092
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: this really not just not just blew it, but blew

1093
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: it in a way that they haven't blown it in

1094
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: forty years. Because for the first time in forty years,

1095
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: Democrats will have complete control of the Michigan state government. Yeah. Yeah,

1096
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: And it's like it's like the other things. It wasn't

1097
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: just in Michigan where this happened, right like like quite possibly,

1098
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: like one of the ways they're going to lose the

1099
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: Senate is because like the Republicans like entire sort of

1100
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: apparatus and Nevada was running against the Equal Rights Amendments,

1101
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: which and specifically they were running against the equal Nevada

1102
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: passing University of the Equal Rights Amendment, like specifically on

1103
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: the grounds of transphobia, and the e ARRA passed by

1104
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:53,439
Speaker 1: seventeen points. Uh, and Republicans are about to lose that Senate. See.

1105
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: And it's just like my main version of this is

1106
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: that the Republican Party ran a platform that is like

1107
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: a political equivalent of like a street preacher, right, like

1108
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: that that is the constituency for this. It is like

1109
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: they unbelievably hate trans people. They like an unbelievably hard

1110
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: line anti abortion position, which again like nobody actually likes.

1111
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: And you know, it turns out like if if if

1112
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: your constituency is street preachers, like the thing an average

1113
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: person does when they run into a street preacher is

1114
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: walked past them. And it turns out that's what happened

1115
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: to you, Like they got oh that's that's that's the

1116
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: mean version of it. Absolutely, I mean that's not just

1117
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: the mean version of it is essentially what happened, um

1118
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: in Michigan and Pennsylvania, in all of these states where

1119
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: hard line Christian nationalists won Republican primaries, like they went

1120
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: down hard um and so as Robert said, yeah, things

1121
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: actually mattered this election, and that's a good thing. Um.

1122
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: And I think I know for me, as like, I

1123
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: went into election night very nervous about my own predictions

1124
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: because when I put together my UM Google spreadsheet that

1125
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: will never be shown to any of you because of

1126
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: how insane it is UM. And I was picking, you know,

1127
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: I got more races wrong, by the way, by picking

1128
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: Republicans to win that Democrats actually one than the other

1129
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: way around, because I kept second guessing myself. It's like, no, no, no,

1130
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm being too kind to Democrats and then

1131
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: I went too far. But when I was making those predictions, honestly,

1132
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: I just kept thinking about, like, so I'm adopted. My

1133
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: parents are both white, and my mom is this like

1134
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: white woman from Appalachian, Ohio, and she is UM in

1135
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: her upper sixties, so she grew up in a world

1136
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: before Roe V. Wade UM, and I had never seen

1137
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: my mom so angry about anything in politics, and like

1138
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: she was very very angry when Trump won UM. She

1139
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: has been very angry. She's been very angry about like

1140
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: January six. She's been angry about a lot of stuff

1141
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: the last several years, as is my dad UM because

1142
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: they're both very normally Democrats. But my mom has never

1143
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: been angrier as far as I've seen her than she

1144
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: was angrier about Dobbs. And it wasn't just like my mom.

1145
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: I was hearing from friends of mine from across the

1146
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: Midwest who also have like normy white suburban parents, and

1147
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: that was kind of the same thing that I was

1148
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: hearing from them too, is like, my mom is so

1149
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: upset about this, my grandmother is so upset about this.

1150
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: These women who remembered what it was like to grow

1151
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: up in a world where abortion was not something that

1152
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: they had access to if they needed it, um. And that, honestly,

1153
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's obviously completely anecdotal. It's not databased

1154
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: or data driven in any way. But that was just

1155
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: what I kept thinking about as I was making predictions

1156
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: about how the mid term was gonna go, was you know,

1157
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: I think that these people are angry enough that they

1158
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: are not going to care about and Saan, They're not

1159
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: going to care about the fact that our economy is

1160
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: very clearly headed for recession, um, because this is going

1161
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: to matter more to them, um, And it did. I

1162
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: kind of want to move on to talking about what

1163
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: what we think this sets us up for because I

1164
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: think the clearest and we talked about this a little earlier,

1165
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: but sort of the clearest thing that's positive about this

1166
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: is that we have fewer state secretaries of state and

1167
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: state legislatures in the hands of the Republican Party, which

1168
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: means more of a chance that like what people actually

1169
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: vote for is going to matter. Um. Now, we're still

1170
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: dealing with the judiciary that is as fucked as it

1171
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: was prior to the mid terms and probably won't be

1172
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: less fucked in a way that is notable. Um and aggregate, Yeah,

1173
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: we can. We can always hope and pray. Yeah, they

1174
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: can to be a couple of very specific yeah, yeah, yeah,

1175
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: yeah on that point. Actually, So there I know a

1176
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: bang on about about like how the United States deals

1177
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: with its Indigenous people a lot, but like they slated

1178
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: and we'll do an episode on it, but we're trying

1179
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: to do it properly. Like slated for this Supreme Court

1180
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: session is to look at AQUA right, the Indian Child

1181
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: Welfare Act, and like the challenge to it challenges a

1182
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: lot of the basis of other tribal law and in

1183
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: places like Arizona, right, like indigenous people are a large

1184
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: like often like they're supposed to be, like the swing

1185
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: electorate for like Blue Arizona. So they could have positive

1186
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: outcomes for for Democrats. It could. They could. I don't

1187
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: know how they could go out their way to do

1188
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: in French trans indigenous people, but they find you and

1189
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: exciting ways to do it all the fucking time, So

1190
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: like that will be interesting. And one thing I wanted

1191
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: to raise is like, so I live in California, which

1192
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: I think is seen as like the left coast and stuff,

1193
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: but we have an alarming amount of really chuddly people

1194
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: going to the House from California, And yeah, it's becoming

1195
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: increasingly a bit like well, like some of you live

1196
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: in Oregon, where you have a very dif the far

1197
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: right in California is larger than the population of like

1198
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: many United US states. Yeah, yes, and they're increasingly big

1199
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: mad about like small things. But yeah, like I'm just

1200
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: looking at the districts around the one I'm in, and

1201
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: a number of them have sent like anti reproductive rights

1202
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: house representatives back to the House. California is a state where, um,

1203
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party likes to flop its way to victory.

1204
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: It's one of it's one of the most incompetent state

1205
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,439
Speaker 1: Democratic parties in the country, which is really saying something

1206
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: because they're competing. They're competing with they're competing with Florida. Like,

1207
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, Oregon's not didn't do great either, Like

1208
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: the state Democratic Party in Oregon had their most narrow

1209
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 1: governor's race in a long time, and also the Dems

1210
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: lost their their supermajority in the state Congress. They did

1211
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: lose their supermajority, but Democrats in Oregon do now have

1212
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: the ability to redistrict again so they can take back

1213
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: that seat that Republicans picked up because there was a

1214
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: constitutional amendment that got passed by the voters of Oregon

1215
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: that says that if Republicans do what they have done

1216
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: in the last few years in Oregon, which is walk

1217
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: out of the state House anytime that a lot might pass,

1218
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: they get banned for running for re election. But also,

1219
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: like without the supermajority, I don't know that there's as

1220
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: much of any I mean, we'll see what happens um,

1221
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's there. As a general rule, it seems

1222
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: like when you've got there's no meaningful competition for what

1223
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: party is going to be in control of the state,

1224
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: it becomes a haven for like the political equivalent of grifters.

1225
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: To sucking huge salaries and do very little um and yeah,

1226
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: yeah like math or to do like star mare look

1227
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: at that. Also yeah, and she's up for re election

1228
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: in a few months. Then we can only hope that

1229
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: she that she loses. I can't imagine her winning. I mean,

1230
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: it could happen. If it could happen, it could happen.

1231
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: Here's here's an ad break. Good work, Garrison. Yeah, what

1232
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: a professional. Ah. We're back. And you know what talking

1233
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: about the midterm elections makes me feel like doing smoking

1234
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 1: a cigarette? Buy cigarettes, kids, They're is good for you

1235
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: as democracy. All right, we're back. In some other interesting news.

1236
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: This is so the this this pessimn terms had more

1237
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: lgbt Q candidates win office than ever before in a

1238
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: midterm election. There was a few notable winds, specifically with

1239
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: trans people in the Midwest actually, which has been probably

1240
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 1: a decent side. It's it's a good side. You know,

1241
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: heroes are doing good. Yeah. There's been a multiple multiple

1242
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: trans people and trans uh particularly quite a few trans

1243
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: women elected to state legislatives across across the Midwest, like

1244
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: in Montana and inside uh Midwestern that out yeah, well

1245
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: Mountain West. See, well, the thing is I grew up

1246
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: in Saskatchewan, which is like above Montana, and whenever you

1247
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: would drive down, we would always stay in the more

1248
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,759
Speaker 1: midwest east sections, and everyone talks it felt very Midwest

1249
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,600
Speaker 1: to me because of where I lived in Saskatchewan. So

1250
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: apology of apologies to people who are Montana mountaineers, I guess, apologies, No, No,

1251
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: we don't need to be so. Zoe Zephyr, who testified

1252
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: against anti trans legislation previously, is now able to vote

1253
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: against it. Um in Minnesota talked about that, like very briefly,

1254
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: which is that like, okay, there are a lot of

1255
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 1: queer communities in places that people just fucking ignore. Yeah,

1256
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 1: absolutely can you cannot discount these places. Yeah, It's like

1257
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: Missoula specifically has has a like like pretty substitutve queer community.

1258
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: They do good ship, they're out there like they're like

1259
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: there's there's this sort of tendency I think to like

1260
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: like look at like a state and go like, oh,

1261
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: it's a red state, Like there's whatever the commune which

1262
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: you were just fleeing, and it's like it's not true.

1263
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: Like there there are a lot of people who are

1264
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: like have for many years been building a community there

1265
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,839
Speaker 1: and hanging auccenaciously and building it. And also in Missoula,

1266
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: people take notice. Also in Missoula, the first non binary

1267
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: candidate was elected in uh s J. Howell so to

1268
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: uh to trans people elected there in in uh in Missoula.

1269
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: But the way did did did did Missoula Missoula do this?

1270
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: People in Portland would fall probably, but Portland's Portland's like

1271
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 1: city councils like four people. Yeah that's true, Yeah, entirely. Yeah,

1272
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 1: and it was pretty conservative that this past election actually, um,

1273
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: but we also had in Minnesota lay a thing because

1274
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: the first trans person in state let us, let let

1275
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: us later. And in New Hampshire they elected the first

1276
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: transman to a US Statehouse. So yeah. And the other

1277
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: other good thing is um Arizona got a Democratic governor,

1278
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: which means a whole bunch of potential legislation will probably

1279
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: not get signed on because Arizona did have some pretty

1280
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: pretty pretty bad anti transport to come up in the

1281
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: past few years. I also want to talk about. So

1282
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: the Arizona election was critical, not just because it's amazing

1283
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: that fucking carry Lake's not going to be a governor,

1284
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: because she is an election denying Google. Um, but the

1285
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: nicest thing Blake Masters might be the scariest person who

1286
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: was running for election. He is he is the scariest

1287
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: he was for serial killer. Yeah yeah, yeah he was.

1288
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: He was scary until he was funny, is the thing,

1289
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: because like I you know, when they failed, they're always funny. Yeah.

1290
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: But Christopher and I were talking about this before the

1291
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: podcast and like during the during the final debate between

1292
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: Blake Masters and Mark Kelly, like and I want to

1293
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 1: swear on this podcast, like we're allowed to say whatever

1294
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: the hell we want, perfect um debate. In their final

1295
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 1: debate between Mark Kelly and Blake Masters, Mark Kelly's like

1296
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 1: final statement, his conclusion argument was essentially pointing at Blake

1297
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: Masters and going, look at this fucking freak. Yeah. Yeah,

1298
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 1: it was great. It was just the which is one

1299
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: of the most powerful things he could do in pols

1300
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: because he was he was just like, like the specific

1301
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: thing he did because his language was was I think

1302
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: a lot more nuanced than that, because what he was

1303
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: saying is Blake Masters, for those of you who don't

1304
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: don't know, like one of the most like famous moments

1305
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: of this campaign is he he put out a campaign

1306
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: ad that was just him parking in the desert with

1307
01:12:53,040 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 1: a silenced handgun mentioned which is a child gun first off,

1308
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: but anyway, mentioning twice that the gun was German and

1309
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: like Germans to arrested, and then firing it blindly at nothing,

1310
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 1: and then the ad he fired it across the lake. Yeah,

1311
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: we don't see him shoot at something. We don't see

1312
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: him hit a target. He is his stances dogs anyway.

1313
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: But it's just him taking a silence pistol out repeatedly

1314
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: mentioning that the gun is German, firing it, and then

1315
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: the ad ends that's the whole a seconds of him

1316
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: just fondling and badly shooting it. It's worth giving the

1317
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: context that the person he's running against is someone whose

1318
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,679
Speaker 1: wife was shot in the head. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1319
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: because d so that's but it's also just like, look,

1320
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: guns are a big part of American life. A lot

1321
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: of politicians have, including Democrats, have ads that involved guns,

1322
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: and usually it's like here is me hunting, you know,

1323
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 1: or even like here is me at the range with friends,

1324
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: engaging in a thing that many Americans do. Masters was

1325
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: just blindly shooting a twenty two caliber handgun after immediately

1326
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: mentioning that it's chairman. It was it was like someone

1327
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 1: showed an alien like a regular campaign ad of someone

1328
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,240
Speaker 1: shooting a gun, and then yes, I mean, it's funny

1329
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 1: that that's the term that you use, because that was

1330
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: a term that was flying around like Arizona social media

1331
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: the entire campaign. It was like, Blake Bastards looks like

1332
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: an alien and you get red with Peter Teel money

1333
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,680
Speaker 1: for so so he has this and he has a

1334
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: couple of others like he is, he is, he's a

1335
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: number one. He worked with Peter Teel for years. Um

1336
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: he's doing all sorts of fucking ghoule ship on Twitter,

1337
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 1: like really mask off fascist, unhinged shit. And Mark Kelly

1338
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: in the debate isn't just like look at this freak.

1339
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, we all know guys like this to

1340
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 1: talk about how dangerous and how scary they are, but

1341
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: they they've never done anything. They're just like weirdos trying

1342
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: to scare you so that you'll think that they're they're powerful,

1343
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: and like, don't don't fall forward it And it was

1344
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: perfect and the good news is that Arizona voters did

1345
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 1: not fall for it, because you know, not only did

1346
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:23,680
Speaker 1: Blake Masters lose by the best performing Republicans in Arizona

1347
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: where their House candidates, like the statewide House popular vote

1348
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,560
Speaker 1: for the for U S Congress, not the Statehouse was

1349
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: I think Republicans want it or going to win it

1350
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:39,040
Speaker 1: by like five. So Carli Lake already drastically underperformed that

1351
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: by six because she's gonna lose. And then to Blake

1352
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: Masters underperformed his House candidates by like ten or eleven. Unbelievable.

1353
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: It's it's I mean it. It really goes to show

1354
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: that whatever most Americans want, they don't want a fucking

1355
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 1: weirdo fascist freak threatening uh there an astronaut's wife with

1356
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 1: a gun. Yeah. Really briefly, like also like on this note,

1357
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 1: of all of the queer and trans candidates who one

1358
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: um I will point out this follows the pattern that

1359
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: has taken shape in the last decade, which is that

1360
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 1: these supposedly well not supposedly they are, but like these

1361
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,719
Speaker 1: red and purple states in the South and the Midwest

1362
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: are sending queer and trans people into the halls of

1363
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: power a lot faster than deep blue states on the

1364
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: West coast and in the Northeast. The first non unfortunately

1365
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: forget their name, but the first non binary state legislator

1366
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,560
Speaker 1: in the country was elected in Oklahoma. And they're not

1367
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: only non binary, they are black and Muslim non binary.

1368
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:54,560
Speaker 1: UM so it's like you know, these um these communities

1369
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: as Christophers like a, these communities do matter, and we

1370
01:16:58,080 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: can't forget about them, we can't abandon them. But all

1371
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 1: so like not just they matter, but like as I

1372
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: will happily argue with any political operative from either coast,

1373
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: we are much more likely to see some kind of

1374
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: progressive or surgeon and resurgeons in this country led by

1375
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: candidates out of the South or Midwest than either Yeah.

1376
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: Well and like like look at like this is one

1377
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 1: of everythings that that you know, so I have a

1378
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: lot of friends in the like Michigan Teachers Union, right

1379
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 1: and you know, like right right now, what is happening

1380
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: in the Michigan Like in Michigan is that the teachers

1381
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: Union is literally sending lists of laws like to to

1382
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 1: the governor that are like you need to get rid

1383
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 1: of this. And you know, if you like if even

1384
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: if you look at like like almost every other democratic

1385
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: party like in the country is just constantly at word

1386
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: with their teachers unions and you know, and then you

1387
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:50,640
Speaker 1: look at like you look at what's happening in Wisconsin

1388
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: and it's like it's like, what's happening in Michigan. Well,

1389
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 1: I also Wisconsin to with like they have a much

1390
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: more labor friendly like Democratic Party even like fucking a

1391
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 1: Francisco or like the ghouls in like like honestly the

1392
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: ghules in the Chicago machine, right Eric Adams office. Yeah, right,

1393
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: Like there's there's there's I don't know, they're like everybody

1394
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: doors the Midwest and we're here, damn it, we do

1395
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 1: good things. Well's it's a little bit like I mean,

1396
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of what we were saying earlier

1397
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 1: that like when you've got these states where because of

1398
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: the population layout, the Democratic Party doesn't have to struggle

1399
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 1: to actually win for the most part, you're a hell

1400
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: of a lot. Number one, the party becomes effectively a cartel.

1401
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 1: So they're very good at stopping any like upstart young progressive,

1402
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: non binary, queer trans people from like getting a hold

1403
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: on in local politics. You know, we we just had

1404
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 1: the most progressive member of the Portland City Council ousted

1405
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 1: by corporate business interests um and you know it, which

1406
01:18:58,000 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: is very different from the trend that you're seeing in

1407
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 1: places like Montana, and its like Oklahoma with a lot

1408
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 1: of these very progressive, you know, young candidates. And it's

1409
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: because UM number one, maybe the state parties are a

1410
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 1: little more willing to throw a hail Mary. But also

1411
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 1: just like those individual people, the people running in the

1412
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 1: folks doing their campaign have had to be a lot

1413
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: harder and a lot smarter to survive surrounded by people

1414
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: who hate them. And I think also, like there's one

1415
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: of the ways that I was pretty sure that this

1416
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be a read tsunami was so I

1417
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 1: have some friends. I have friends who go to Wheaton College,

1418
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 1: And for people who don't know who what Wheaton College is,

1419
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 1: it is like, we're sorry that we're about to inform you. Yeah,

1420
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 1: so Wheaton College is one of like I don't know,

1421
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 1: maybe the second behind like Graham Young, like most right

1422
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: wing evangelical college in the US, like they they famously

1423
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: it's not as bad as the Liberty Yeah, yeah, it's

1424
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 1: like number three, right, But like so it's this is

1425
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 1: this is like the the intellectual sense of UM, like

1426
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 1: of sort of evangelical politics. Like me, make sure I

1427
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,640
Speaker 1: have this right, Yeah, like Billy Graham's family has funneled

1428
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: money into Wheaton College for decades in two days now

1429
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,719
Speaker 1: and okay, so like Whetton is a like broadly beaking,

1430
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 1: like a fucking ferociously hostile place to be anything other

1431
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: than a like assist head white person, right, it is

1432
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 1: like unbelievably homophobic. It is really anti Semitic. And like

1433
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: a few months ago, I was walking like through Wheaton

1434
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 1: downtown to visit a front and in the middle of

1435
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: fucking Wheaton downtown, they're they're they're like there there was

1436
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 1: someone who on in their in their like fucking lawn

1437
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: had had like had a giant Pride flag and like

1438
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it was like it was like the

1439
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: there was the like the brown Pride flag too, right,

1440
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: Like that was like even five years ago, that would

1441
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: have been unimaginable, Like you would have been like you

1442
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: would have been fucking chased out of town by m Bob.

1443
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 1: Like and it's it's just there now, and I don't know,

1444
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 1: like they haven't been run out. It's still there. No,

1445
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 1: it's literally yes, everything that Christopher just said, and you

1446
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 1: know these are people that Christopher, Christopher and I grew

1447
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 1: up with like we literally I was there was a

1448
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: granddaughter of Billy Graham in my high school class. UM.

1449
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: And I think you know, as much as you know,

1450
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,799
Speaker 1: these people are not going to be socialists or progressive

1451
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 1: at anytime soon. They are very much like normy moderate

1452
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: Democrats now. But there were a lot of suburban white

1453
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 1: people who got very turned off by Trump for the

1454
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:48,320
Speaker 1: Republican Party. And I think that this midterm is the

1455
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:52,520
Speaker 1: confirmation that, barring you know, some kind of economic catastrophe

1456
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: that always always throws elections to the out of power party. Uh,

1457
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: these Norman white urban nights are not going back. Uh.

1458
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: And we you know when you look at trends across

1459
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: the country. Um, you know JB. Princker one do Page County,

1460
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 1: which is the county that Wheaton is in, which is

1461
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: like you know, this is yeah, like this used to

1462
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 1: be within Christopher and I's lifetimes. This used to be

1463
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: a county that Republicans banked on getting three hundred thousand

1464
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,560
Speaker 1: votes out of on a statewide margin level. Um, and

1465
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 1: now it's being one up and down by Democrats. Like

1466
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 1: Democrats flipped the county executive office in du Page County

1467
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: this year. Um, So like Chicago suburbs are trending are

1468
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: continuing to trend left, Atlanta suburbs are continuing to trend left. Uh,

1469
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: the like Raleigh Durham area in North Carolina is trending left.

1470
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: The Texas urban areas are trending left. And this isn't

1471
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 1: just like in comparison to twenty six. This is in

1472
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:54,919
Speaker 1: comparison to two years ago, which was a democratic environment.

1473
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: Um So, the fact that these counties are swinging left

1474
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 1: in a year where the country, even though the overall

1475
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: results were fine, the country definitely swung right. Like these

1476
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:08,640
Speaker 1: people are not going back. And not just that these

1477
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,719
Speaker 1: people are not going back, but the ones who are staying.

1478
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 1: Republicans aid, they're moving. They're leaving the suburbs and they're

1479
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 1: establishing their little new white flight outposts in other places.

1480
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: Um and the people who are replacing them are largely

1481
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 1: people of color. Like the suburbs today in America are

1482
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: sixty percent white as compared to in the year two

1483
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 1: thousand when they were something like seventy percent white. Um

1484
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: So this is I think this year was the confirmation

1485
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: we needed that this is a permanent trend that the

1486
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: suburbs from now on are either going to be a

1487
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 1: wash or even frankly just democratic places where Democrats will

1488
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,960
Speaker 1: net votes. And this is all There still is a

1489
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 1: lot of fear, and there's still is reason to be

1490
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: very concerned about the ability of the GOP's power to

1491
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 1: push things in Revanteus direction in an anti democratic election,

1492
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 1: to remove the ability of people because that that is

1493
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing them talk right now. We're seeing

1494
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 1: guys like Matt Walsh Christopher Ruffo talk right now about

1495
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: the need to like stop young people from voting, to

1496
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: like crackdown on mail voting. Like this is not not

1497
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: to say like, all right, it's all done, um, but

1498
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:18,600
Speaker 1: this is like, I guess the thing that's that's optimistic

1499
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 1: about this overall is that it is um. It's evidence

1500
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: that the there there was this kind of open question

1501
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: after Trump won in UM and if one thing you

1502
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: could look at, you could look at you could look

1503
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 1: at two and they're like, well, clearly the trend since

1504
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: then has been for the GOP to lose big in

1505
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: most of these elections. But that was also anything but clear,

1506
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 1: kind of as a result of of in the way

1507
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 1: COVID fuck things up. And this this does seem to

1508
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 1: like submit that that like, yeah, it may it may

1509
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: have the long run proved to be a major, major

1510
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: tactical failure to to have gone for this guy the

1511
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: way that they did. Oh yeah, I mean and we

1512
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: can only hope. Um. I mean, I personally, from an

1513
01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: entertainment factor, cannot wait for the de Santas versus Trump primary. Um,

1514
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 1: I will be. I will be rooting for Trump because

1515
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: he is funnier online. Um. And also I don't think

1516
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 1: it would make a substance of difference uh in whether

1517
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: or not like who would be the nominee, because the

1518
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: Santis is just Trump without the charisma. Um. But I

1519
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:41,720
Speaker 1: think yeah, hopefully, Like we saw the Republican Party pay

1520
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: a price this year for arguably the first time in

1521
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 1: a long time for their insanity. Um, and it's good

1522
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,719
Speaker 1: to see that that happened. Hopefully it will happen again.

1523
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 1: And I will also note for anyone listening, who does

1524
01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: you know you care about elections? You want to get

1525
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: involved somewhere. The next somewhere for you to get involved

1526
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:06,720
Speaker 1: in is the state of Wisconsin, where the there is

1527
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 1: a state Supreme Court seat up for election in April.

1528
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: If Democrats win that seat, they will flip the Supreme

1529
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 1: Court in Wisconsin, and that means that the absolutely insane

1530
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: Republican gerrymanders in that state, which pretty much render the

1531
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin a non democracy, will likely get overcharged

1532
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 1: if Democrats are able to flip the Wisconsin Supreme Court,

1533
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: which would mean a lot of good things could happen

1534
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:38,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of people who live in that state. Okay,

1535
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,599
Speaker 1: there is one other thing that is like basically I'm religious,

1536
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 1: that I want to touch on before we close up,

1537
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: which is that the extent to which the Republicans have

1538
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 1: sort of entered chaos mode now a with with Trump

1539
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 1: just sort of like going off on the Santis and

1540
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: like the Republican Civil War happening. And then secondly, because

1541
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 1: they see it looks like they've gotten the chaos mode

1542
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: configuration of their House majority. Yes, um, any anyone who

1543
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: pays attention to Congress, I would encourage you to get very,

1544
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:17,560
Speaker 1: very familiar with the term discharge petition, which is a

1545
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 1: mechanism by which, if you have a majority of the

1546
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 1: House is willing to sign a piece of paper that

1547
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 1: says we should put this bill on the floor no

1548
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: matter what it goes to the floor. No matter what, um, and,

1549
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: I think you're probably gonna see Democrats successfully put a

1550
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: lot of bills on the House floor in the next

1551
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 1: two years because they're going to get they're going to

1552
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 1: pick off the Republican moderates in the northeast to sign

1553
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: these these pieces of paper. We should I think we

1554
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: should explain what exactly the Republican position looks like, because

1555
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:53,879
Speaker 1: it's oh sure, so um it's so, I should caveat

1556
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 1: this with the statement that there is still like I

1557
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 1: would say, a five percent chance that Democrats may manage

1558
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 1: to scrap, like scrape their way to a one seat majority. Um,

1559
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: it's not likely by any means, but like, it is

1560
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,719
Speaker 1: still theoretically on the table, mostly because Lauren Bobert managed

1561
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 1: to put herself into position where she might actually lose UM.

1562
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: And but default modal outcome I would say is Republicans

1563
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,839
Speaker 1: end up with a three or four House seat majority.

1564
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,519
Speaker 1: Uh in. But what that means is that UHL, we

1565
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 1: get Calvin Ball for the next two years, essentially because

1566
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy as a person, UM is well a he's

1567
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: like very unintelligent in general. And this is like a

1568
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 1: very common sentiment that you will run into uh. In

1569
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:48,600
Speaker 1: people who pay attention to Congress, he is not personally

1570
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 1: capable of managing a House majority of four. This is

1571
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 1: so widely accepted that Nancy Pelosi was willing to go

1572
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 1: on the record in an interview the other day saying that, um,

1573
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 1: and so, who knows, Kevin McCarthy may not even end

1574
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 1: up being the speaker. We may not have a speaker

1575
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 1: until March because no one would get two and eighteen votes. Um.

1576
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: But whoever has that job, whatever Republican has that job,

1577
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: it is going to be the most thankless job of

1578
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:19,599
Speaker 1: their life that they will suffer through the two years.

1579
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: Because you know, the the pundit class and political operatives

1580
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: love to talk about how ideologically diverse the Democratic Party

1581
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 1: is in the House. And it's true because like on

1582
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 1: the left wing end of the of the caucus you

1583
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: have people like Rashida Claib and Ellen Omar, and the

1584
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: right wing end you have people like Henry quay Are,

1585
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:44,800
Speaker 1: who tragically survived his primary this year. Um. But I

1586
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 1: think it has gone under the radar that Republicans in

1587
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 1: the House are arguably more ideologically diverse than Democrats are

1588
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 1: because the moderates, the moderate Republicans in the House are

1589
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: like your very standard like socially liberal, fiscally conservative types

1590
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 1: that were very popular and like two thousand ten, um,

1591
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,280
Speaker 1: like you have like some of these Northeastern Republicans who

1592
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 1: are were more than happy to vote for same sex marriage,

1593
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: though they would probably vote for uh like to quodify row,

1594
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 1: they would probably vote to codify birth control legal like reality.

1595
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: And on the other end you have Marjorie Taylor Green

1596
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:31,800
Speaker 1: and like if MTG. Yeah, if if there is a

1597
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 1: person on this earth who is capable of managing that caucus, Um,

1598
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: I don't know who they are. I don't think anyone

1599
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 1: knows who they are. UM, And I think that the

1600
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: smartest thing that that person could do is um not

1601
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: take the job and let someone else take the fall

1602
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: for what is going to be two years of chaos

1603
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: that will most likely hurt the Republican brand a lot

1604
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 1: in the next two years. Yeah. That that's like one

1605
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: of the things that actually makes me like slightly optimistic

1606
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 1: is that like the Republican Party like is it is

1607
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: it like a first coalition and it had been being

1608
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:13,759
Speaker 1: held together sort of like by Trump, And now Trump's

1609
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 1: on on Twitter anymore, and Twitter may not exist by

1610
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 1: like the time community speaker. Well, it's also I think

1611
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: I might add Chris, it's not just by Trump. And

1612
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:29,000
Speaker 1: part of why Trump was able to get the position

1613
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: did is it's it's a mix of Trump and owning

1614
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 1: the Libs, right, Like, that's that's a huge part of

1615
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 1: why the most visible members of this caucus are where

1616
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: they are, Like, there's no there's no Marjorie Taylor Green

1617
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 1: right without the way that particular social reinforcement pattern works.

1618
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:51,600
Speaker 1: And um, yeah, I I think that like that's not

1619
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:54,400
Speaker 1: like number one, if Twitter goes away, which could have

1620
01:31:54,479 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: happened by the time you listen to this episode, that

1621
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:58,800
Speaker 1: really gets gets in the way of their ability to

1622
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 1: own the Libs. But also so if they're just getting

1623
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: their asses kicked up and down the country, they're they're

1624
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 1: no longer owning the Libs. The Libs have not been owned, No,

1625
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: they have not. And I think the other you know,

1626
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:16,439
Speaker 1: the other consideration here is that, um, we like to

1627
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: talk a lot in this country because it's true about

1628
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: neither party ever puts forth a substance of policy agenda. Um.

1629
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of Republican political operatives who

1630
01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 1: are running around right now complaining and saying that Republicans

1631
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:31,800
Speaker 1: lost because they failed to offer a viable alternative. Except

1632
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 1: that's not true. Republicans did offer a policy agenda in

1633
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 1: this midterm, and that policy agenda was Christian nationalism, and

1634
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: American voters took one look at that and said, are

1635
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 1: you fucking for real? Yeah, yeah, like that that's the

1636
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 1: thing that like everyone like like people like all the

1637
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 1: fucking New York Times calumn this, Like people don't understand that.

1638
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 1: Like there's maybe thirty of the population who actually likes

1639
01:32:56,400 --> 01:33:00,080
Speaker 1: that ship, and everyone else in the country is like,

1640
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:04,680
Speaker 1: what the fuck? And you know, and but but you know,

1641
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:10,320
Speaker 1: like the like the the the actual sort of median

1642
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,720
Speaker 1: person in the US is so much less like that

1643
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 1: than the median person that every pundit imagines that like

1644
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: the version of reality that exists in sort of like

1645
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: the minds of the media class. Like it's not yeah,

1646
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 1: they've they've they've cre they've created like incredible sand castles

1647
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:29,719
Speaker 1: in their mind. Now the tides like washing them away.

1648
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if the tide washing them away. I

1649
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 1: think we can we can only hope that The New

1650
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 1: York Times gets washed out to see. But I think,

1651
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 1: you know, I sorry, go for it, no, no, no please.

1652
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, like, you know, obviously the

1653
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 1: next two years are going to be the next two years, UM,

1654
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 1: and no one can predict the future. Anyone who anyone

1655
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:55,360
Speaker 1: who tells you and literally the next eighteen months that

1656
01:33:55,479 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: they know how the two four elections are going to

1657
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 1: go is lying to you, and you should lock them

1658
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:04,679
Speaker 1: and perhaps to report them to like whatever like non

1659
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 1: retributed forms of authority exists in your local area. But

1660
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 1: um my, you know, based on how this went, if

1661
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,120
Speaker 1: the same trends play out for the next two years,

1662
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: which would be suburbs continue swinging left, Democrats continue to

1663
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 1: rack up problems with minority voters, but like not to

1664
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: the extent that we're gonna lose urban seats anytime soon. Um,

1665
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: and Republicans continue racking up margins in the states and

1666
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 1: like the seats that they're already winning by eighty points,

1667
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 1: which helps them on a statewide level, but does not

1668
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 1: help them in the U. S. House. My I would say, like,

1669
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 1: assuming the current trends continue the trends we've had since sixteen, UM,

1670
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:49,160
Speaker 1: that would mean Democrats flip back the House in two

1671
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 1: thousand twenty four. H it would also mean that we

1672
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: are once again in like the fight of our lives

1673
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:56,519
Speaker 1: for the Senate, as we likely will be for every

1674
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 1: single cycle for the next ten years. So you know,

1675
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: just kind of get used to the um while you

1676
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:05,160
Speaker 1: can when you have the breather um. But yeah, like

1677
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: we had an okay in term that was literally a

1678
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 1: year ago looking like it was going to be possibly

1679
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 1: the worst in term wipe out, possibly the end of

1680
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 1: the Republic as literally literally, um, so you might be good.

1681
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: I think the responsible thing to do now is to

1682
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 1: close out by each giving one of our unhinged predictions

1683
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: for what we're going to see in and I'm going

1684
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:39,080
Speaker 1: to start. I think we're gonna see Musk and McConaughey

1685
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:42,760
Speaker 1: VI for the governor of Texas once Greg Abbott is

1686
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 1: forced out god from a sex scandal. Um, that's my

1687
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 1: that's my call. Proved to me, show show when when,

1688
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 1: when it happens? Everybody, everybody alowe me, Yeah, some some

1689
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:01,360
Speaker 1: French fries, Oh god, it's gonna happen. Calling it now,

1690
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, I reckon, Tom Brady is gonna Tom Brady

1691
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 1: is gonna take a swing at it at Texas. No

1692
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:11,639
Speaker 1: one of those states up in where it's cold marines

1693
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 1: all the time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, one of those. Yeah,

1694
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:22,400
Speaker 1: I assume he's from, broadly speaking, Illinois to Wisconsin. He is,

1695
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 1: he would be running in New England. Please do not

1696
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: pin that on us. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, bro, but

1697
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:29,800
Speaker 1: not that kind of cold like yeah, just just gray,

1698
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:33,800
Speaker 1: not like like miserable cold like you will have there. Yeah.

1699
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 1: Tom Brady running in a place where you can't grow

1700
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,960
Speaker 1: tomatoes is Yeah, it's my prediction that feels good after

1701
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:45,600
Speaker 1: his massive success selling the hit crypto platform f t X.

1702
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:50,840
Speaker 1: What one can't Tom Brady do? Who knows? Don't, don't

1703
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,559
Speaker 1: ask that, whyn't put that out there? Robert win games

1704
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 1: for the Bucketeers. Yeah, in Germany. Yeah, survive eating what

1705
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 1: any normal human being would eat on a given day. Garrison,

1706
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't. I don't care about this

1707
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 1: type of thing very much. The perfect reason to make

1708
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:15,080
Speaker 1: unhinged prediction. I don't know. I think. One of the

1709
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,920
Speaker 1: funniest things is that earlier this year there's this big

1710
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:22,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin account who said that if things continue, bitcoin is

1711
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 1: going to be a major factor in the mid terms,

1712
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 1: which is so so I'm saying that what's the what's

1713
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 1: what's the even dumber cryptocurrency? Um I was thinking of?

1714
01:37:43,560 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 1: I was thinking of, does coin is gonna be a

1715
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:54,559
Speaker 1: significant factor in election? Yeah? Uh? Mine is that? Mine

1716
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: is that? Okay, Pritzker is going to bring back like

1717
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 1: the old school democratic machine, and but by Biden is

1718
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:04,040
Speaker 1: gonna fall out a window like Kamala Harris. He's going

1719
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:07,400
Speaker 1: to sort of like turn up like that they're going

1720
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:09,479
Speaker 1: to drain a damn in thirty years and find her

1721
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: body and going to run again. Yeah, yeah, he won't

1722
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,720
Speaker 1: because he will have fallen out of a building then

1723
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 1: near the end of at the end of about three Christmas.

1724
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:26,000
Speaker 1: That's your prediction that Joe Biden will fall out of

1725
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 1: a window the fourth comenetration of Prague. Like we we

1726
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 1: we all think that like the sort of like threat,

1727
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,599
Speaker 1: like the threat to bourgeois democracy comes come comes from

1728
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,519
Speaker 1: the Republicans. It's not. It's Pritzker. Prisker is gonna coup

1729
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 1: the fucking country and probably sixty percent of the population

1730
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 1: is going to be completely on board because he's going

1731
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 1: to be less insane than like everyone that's been like

1732
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 1: in charge of this country for the last fifty years.

1733
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:58,799
Speaker 1: And you know, he's gonna save democracy then okay, yeah, okay,

1734
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:01,960
Speaker 1: leaves me. What is my unhin prediction. I don't think

1735
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:05,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to top christophers prediction about JP prinsker Um.

1736
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:11,080
Speaker 1: You know, I think my unhin prediction will be that

1737
01:39:11,160 --> 01:39:14,280
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift runs for Senate in Tennessee. Oh god, oh

1738
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 1: she could do it. Yeah, yeah, I don't don't look

1739
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 1: if she if she brings on, if she brings on

1740
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:23,120
Speaker 1: the head of her fan club who went to jail

1741
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 1: in Israel for refusing to serve the idea, I think

1742
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,600
Speaker 1: that actually might get some progressive Yeah, that may have

1743
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:35,040
Speaker 1: been untrue sadly, the oh the Swifty refuge, but maybe

1744
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:38,320
Speaker 1: not really. Why why did you even introduce that? Why?

1745
01:39:38,439 --> 01:39:41,679
Speaker 1: Why would you? Why would you say that to me? Again?

1746
01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 1: Because not all these beautiful things we believe it could

1747
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: be true, But Taylor Swift running for Tennessee, she would

1748
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 1: almost certainly be better than whoever is a Tennessee senator

1749
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:55,240
Speaker 1: now right, Yeah, it's now Colonel Sanders or someone basically

1750
01:39:55,479 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 1: the same as Colonel Sanders, I imagine, can Hucky Yeah,

1751
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: come on, come on, Brittany James is Kentucky. It's called Kentucky.

1752
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:09,639
Speaker 1: Fried chicken, James, that was that was basically a slur.

1753
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: I there is a type of guy epitomized by Colonel

1754
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 1: Sanders who also occupies all the Senate seats south to

1755
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon line. That's not true. That's that's my

1756
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 1: that's my stunts, and I'm sticking to it. I am

1757
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:32,840
Speaker 1: pushing back on this. Well, I'm gonna watch a fog

1758
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:36,040
Speaker 1: Horn Leghorn video because that's that's who I'm thinking of now, James,

1759
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:42,760
Speaker 1: all right, everybody that's been the episode, mm go vote swift, Yeah,

1760
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:46,400
Speaker 1: vote another couple of times. Just make sure, yeah, the

1761
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 1: old Chicago model. Vote early, vote often pay for pay

1762
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 1: for a few meals. Everyone go to Colorado and vote

1763
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:58,640
Speaker 1: against Yes, literally seven of you or whatever conswing this

1764
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:01,719
Speaker 1: move to color Right. We can't deal with that Sha anymore.

1765
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 1: Fund raise in order to purchase a huge number of

1766
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:09,240
Speaker 1: drones and drop ballots over wherever it is in Colorado.

1767
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: They count votes. I assume Denver. Yeah, like at Denver

1768
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:31,960
Speaker 1: in your ballots and stop listening to podcasts. Legal disclaimer Okay,

1769
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:34,599
Speaker 1: it's actually me not the legal disclaim a guy from

1770
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:37,400
Speaker 1: Medical aud but we just wanted to mention that both

1771
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:39,960
Speaker 1: of Our guests today are members of you a W,

1772
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,719
Speaker 1: but they do not speak on behalf of you a W. Okay,

1773
01:41:43,840 --> 01:42:05,880
Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast. Uh could happen here? It's it's it's

1774
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:08,719
Speaker 1: this podcast. It's podcast. We're doing a podcast. It's a podcast,

1775
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,720
Speaker 1: and today it's podcast with me. I'm James and I'm

1776
01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:15,560
Speaker 1: joined by Chris and I'm joined by a couple of

1777
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:18,160
Speaker 1: grad students from you see San Diego. Today we're going

1778
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:20,599
Speaker 1: to talk about grad students strikes. Are going to talk

1779
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:22,559
Speaker 1: about the grad student strike Volte that's coming up at

1780
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: you see San Diego and some other grad students strikes

1781
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 1: that Chris and I have been part of back in

1782
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:32,080
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages. Okay, so I'm joined today. But Alex, Alex,

1783
01:42:32,120 --> 01:42:35,559
Speaker 1: you're you're you're studying. I'm trying to get this correct.

1784
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: Cancer genomics a U C s D. Is that correct?

1785
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,759
Speaker 1: That is correct? Thanks for having me. Yeah, you're welcome.

1786
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 1: And Tyler Bell as well. And Tyler you're a post

1787
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 1: doc and you're doing Altzheimer's research, so right, yes, and

1788
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 1: you're both members of U a W. Yes, that's correct.

1789
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 1: I've been a member for at least two years. But yeah,

1790
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:00,360
Speaker 1: and I'm a member of the actual the subset of

1791
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 1: you aw that just formed representing student researchers in completing

1792
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 1: their PhDs. So we'll explain all the details of that

1793
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:10,360
Speaker 1: of course going forward. Yeah, I think maybe we should

1794
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:13,680
Speaker 1: start there and explain kind of the economic relationship of

1795
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:17,800
Speaker 1: PhD and POSTDC students to the university, like what what

1796
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:21,719
Speaker 1: work they do and the As we were talking about beforehand,

1797
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 1: people might not even be familiar with the fact that

1798
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 1: you get paid by the university in many of these positions, right,

1799
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: So can you explain like how that works? Yeah, definitely.

1800
01:43:32,680 --> 01:43:36,479
Speaker 1: So Yeah, as you mentioned, UM, we do uh in

1801
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:40,519
Speaker 1: our various roles as graduate students, teachers, and post docs.

1802
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 1: We do a lot of work, majority of the work

1803
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:46,679
Speaker 1: in fact, that is critical for the university to function

1804
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,000
Speaker 1: as it does, UM, and we do that in a

1805
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 1: few different roles. Some of us are paid to teach

1806
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:56,480
Speaker 1: or t a classes. We call those academic student employees

1807
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:59,840
Speaker 1: who are represented by one of our unions you aw

1808
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,920
Speaker 1: to eight six five. The ragnder of PhD students are

1809
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:05,080
Speaker 1: actually paid directly to do their research, and this is

1810
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:07,280
Speaker 1: usually funded up of grants or other money that the

1811
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:10,960
Speaker 1: university has your march for research. So as we are

1812
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:13,680
Speaker 1: progressing towards our degrees. We are doing work that is

1813
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 1: productive in our labs to get papers out, get grant

1814
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:20,960
Speaker 1: funding coming in, and we receive a stipend to perform

1815
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:23,840
Speaker 1: that work. Uh. Those students are known as graduate student

1816
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:27,719
Speaker 1: researchers or gsrs, who are represented by a new union

1817
01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:30,720
Speaker 1: that just formed because it actually became recently legal to

1818
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:33,720
Speaker 1: form such a union in the state of California. We

1819
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:36,639
Speaker 1: are represented by s are you bargaining for our first contract?

1820
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 1: And then we have the post docs, which Tyler can

1821
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:43,519
Speaker 1: probably talk more about. Who are students who have completed

1822
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:46,600
Speaker 1: their I'm sorry I should We're really clarified. Are not

1823
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:49,680
Speaker 1: students they are They are employees of the university who

1824
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 1: have completed their degrees so are no longer students and

1825
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:55,040
Speaker 1: are doing research work in labs, usually driving their own

1826
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 1: projects forward under supervision of professors. So they are represented

1827
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:01,000
Speaker 1: by a third union, and that's part of this sort

1828
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:05,160
Speaker 1: of collective um organizing called you a w F A ten.

1829
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 1: Well you have postox unions. Yeah, well that's so cool.

1830
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:13,280
Speaker 1: I think the one here you see is actually the

1831
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:16,400
Speaker 1: biggest and one of the first ones that formed. I

1832
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:18,799
Speaker 1: remember I was on a Wikipedia page, which I shouldn't

1833
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 1: use as an academic, but I totally there and I

1834
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:27,720
Speaker 1: was likely made the game away. Yeah, yeah, And I

1835
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 1: think it's it's fascinating because if there are all these

1836
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:33,280
Speaker 1: like memes that you'll see as a graduate student, and

1837
01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 1: then it's like when you finish your pH d, where

1838
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: it's like you always think that you're going to get

1839
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,519
Speaker 1: off the like the grind, right, Like you're like, oh,

1840
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:42,280
Speaker 1: I'll do my m A and then I'll get off

1841
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: and then I'll do my pH d and then the

1842
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 1: people respect me and I'll be compensated for a massive

1843
01:45:46,439 --> 01:45:48,400
Speaker 1: amount of work I do. And then like I'll just

1844
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 1: finish this post doc and then you're like, oh, I'm

1845
01:45:50,439 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: fifty five, you know. Like it's all of those positions

1846
01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 1: are heavily exploited by by universities that make a metric

1847
01:45:57,880 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 1: ship ton of money from these people, who, as you say,

1848
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:02,679
Speaker 1: do most of the work that keeps a university running.

1849
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: So perhaps we could talk about the issues that are

1850
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 1: at stake that that are leading to this this strike

1851
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,040
Speaker 1: authorization vote, and maybe if we go through a little

1852
01:46:12,040 --> 01:46:14,960
Speaker 1: bit of a timeline as well, that would be great. Yes,

1853
01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:17,280
Speaker 1: maybe Teller, maybe you could like explain the fifty ten

1854
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:18,960
Speaker 1: timeline and I can talk a little bit about this,

1855
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:20,720
Speaker 1: are you, and I guess kind of place a five

1856
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:24,920
Speaker 1: point yeah. So chronologically the post talk we're up for

1857
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 1: their contract negotiation, which that's just to set our wages,

1858
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:31,680
Speaker 1: benefits and workplace safety and other types of protections we

1859
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 1: want UM. And that actually came up I think in

1860
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:40,439
Speaker 1: September of UM, and I could be wrong with the

1861
01:46:40,520 --> 01:46:43,720
Speaker 1: date specifically. So much has changed, but we initially back

1862
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 1: in UM started actually asking people what they wanted to

1863
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:50,360
Speaker 1: see in their new contract, like our members, because the

1864
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:53,439
Speaker 1: union isn't like like I if I didn't care about

1865
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:55,200
Speaker 1: the union or no one else care to what exists

1866
01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 1: like it's the post docs and we have to take

1867
01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 1: out like a couple of hours a week to do

1868
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:01,600
Speaker 1: this thing, and sometimes is twenty hours on top of

1869
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 1: our research which is forty hours. And so during that

1870
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:08,880
Speaker 1: time we surveyed, everyone got the demands that people wanted,

1871
01:47:09,160 --> 01:47:11,120
Speaker 1: and the top two issues that people asked for that

1872
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:15,680
Speaker 1: they want it changed was our wages and also the housing. UM.

1873
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:18,840
Speaker 1: We wanted affordable housing because right now, UM, you know

1874
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:23,080
Speaker 1: over of academic workers, including the post docs, who you

1875
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 1: would think you know, you have a PhD. This is

1876
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:28,160
Speaker 1: the time you can finally have affordable housing and you

1877
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:30,040
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about food scarcity and all these

1878
01:47:30,080 --> 01:47:31,960
Speaker 1: other things that you're worried about as a graduate student.

1879
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,200
Speaker 1: So just take this in the context of like we're

1880
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 1: post docs. We're supposed to be like the most paid

1881
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:39,040
Speaker 1: or at least a better off because we have our PhD.

1882
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:41,559
Speaker 1: Think about like what that means for the graduate students

1883
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 1: and those that aren't yet at that stage yet. Um.

1884
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:47,600
Speaker 1: And so when we went forward with our proposals, we

1885
01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:50,680
Speaker 1: um create a lot of other things that we thought

1886
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 1: were important, including things like transit UM bargaining demands to

1887
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:58,679
Speaker 1: make public transit like affordable for post docs because currently

1888
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:01,240
Speaker 1: we don't get any kind of like free paths for that.

1889
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: They don't even consider it um. In fact, you know,

1890
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:06,880
Speaker 1: they probably think we all have cars, which isn't true

1891
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:09,600
Speaker 1: because a lot of post docs are international scholars. We

1892
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:12,400
Speaker 1: were also asking for child care support because currently, like

1893
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:16,800
Speaker 1: a good bit of you know, our post docs have children. Um,

1894
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:19,719
Speaker 1: which is normal because this is a normal like family

1895
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,680
Speaker 1: creation time or whatever you wanna call it, but um,

1896
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 1: it can be one of the only times as an

1897
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:28,799
Speaker 1: academic when it when it really sort of doesn't massively

1898
01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: disadvantage your career to have stuff me right exactly. And

1899
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 1: like post docs, like the whole preposition of a post

1900
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:39,040
Speaker 1: doc was, you know, there's not enough faculty spots for

1901
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:42,320
Speaker 1: once you get a PhD. And post docs now can

1902
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:45,200
Speaker 1: last five if not longer, like five years or longer.

1903
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:49,599
Speaker 1: And there's a new position called an academic researcher, which

1904
01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:51,280
Speaker 1: is a type of like title that you get when

1905
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:52,800
Speaker 1: you can no longer be a post doc. But it's

1906
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 1: also because there's just not enough faculty, so they put

1907
01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,360
Speaker 1: you into a different title to do research. And UM collectively,

1908
01:48:59,439 --> 01:49:03,200
Speaker 1: both US post docs and people that are academic researchers,

1909
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:06,519
Speaker 1: we don't get any affordable childcare, we don't have affordable

1910
01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:09,800
Speaker 1: housing UM, and our wages are below the cost of living.

1911
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:14,920
Speaker 1: And currently we went through the proposals back then and

1912
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:18,080
Speaker 1: we over time a year and a half have not

1913
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 1: really made any leeway on these proposals that actually changed

1914
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:25,040
Speaker 1: the material conditions for post docs. Like the university has

1915
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:27,320
Speaker 1: been you know, bargaining in bad faith that we have

1916
01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:33,639
Speaker 1: multiple unfair UM labor practice lawsuits against from our public

1917
01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:37,280
Speaker 1: relations board for the employers UM and three of those

1918
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:40,000
Speaker 1: have been UM. Sorry, let me get those numbers right.

1919
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 1: Multiple of those have actually been successfully have complaints filed

1920
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:46,719
Speaker 1: against the university. Some of the things that the university

1921
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:49,519
Speaker 1: has done in particularly while we've been bargaining is one

1922
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:51,719
Speaker 1: not bringing the information to the table that we request,

1923
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: like denying our request for information. They have also refused

1924
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 1: to bring the people that can make the type of

1925
01:49:57,160 --> 01:50:00,360
Speaker 1: decisions that we need to the table. And they've all

1926
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:05,000
Speaker 1: also been making unilateral changes to things like bullying policies

1927
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 1: and other workplace issues without even being at the bargaining table.

1928
01:50:08,840 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 1: And the last thing that they've been doing during this

1929
01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:15,080
Speaker 1: process is serving members of our union outside of like

1930
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 1: the bargaining process, Like we we don't know about it.

1931
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:20,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we did find out about it, and then

1932
01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:25,479
Speaker 1: we followed the UM the the complaint and so right

1933
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:27,200
Speaker 1: now we're at a point where we've gotten a lot

1934
01:50:27,240 --> 01:50:30,400
Speaker 1: of things, you know, kind of like moved on in

1935
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 1: terms of things that aren't compensation in terms of our

1936
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:36,680
Speaker 1: bargaining UM, like things that we want such as bullying protections.

1937
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:38,519
Speaker 1: That was something that we actually had to like have

1938
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 1: a big action for to actually get that on the table.

1939
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:45,400
Speaker 1: To move. So currently we won protections against bullying, which

1940
01:50:45,479 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 1: is kind of like pretty enormous because in academia, university

1941
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 1: says we're against bullying and that they have all these

1942
01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:55,559
Speaker 1: resources for you, but through resources always end at we're right,

1943
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:59,560
Speaker 1: you're wrong. And UM. Now we have something in our contracts,

1944
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,200
Speaker 1: not just for that post docs and acondic researchers, but

1945
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:05,400
Speaker 1: also for UM the other bargaining units to actually protect

1946
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:08,000
Speaker 1: us UM in a process that like we could grieve

1947
01:51:08,040 --> 01:51:12,200
Speaker 1: it as you know, UNI represented workers UM. And so

1948
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:14,719
Speaker 1: right now, the reason that we had to authorize the strike,

1949
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 1: especially for our group as post docs and economic researchers,

1950
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 1: because they started bargaining kind of like maybe UM further

1951
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:25,639
Speaker 1: along in that year with us, but they are kind

1952
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:27,400
Speaker 1: of at the same place of like not getting the

1953
01:51:27,439 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 1: same type of responses and UM. We just want them

1954
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: to actually come to the table, bring the people that

1955
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:36,080
Speaker 1: can make the decisions so that we can have you know,

1956
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 1: affordable housing, fair wages to actually do the research that

1957
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:41,400
Speaker 1: we do here. And I just want to say that

1958
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 1: we bring a lot of value to the university through

1959
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:46,479
Speaker 1: grants in particular as post talks, so we do most

1960
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 1: of the writing of research papers, conducting the experiments. UM.

1961
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:52,559
Speaker 1: People think that if people think that faculty sit there

1962
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 1: and run a wet lab and actually do the you know,

1963
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 1: the work of the wet labs. Um. You know, that

1964
01:51:57,160 --> 01:51:59,400
Speaker 1: would be an amazing faculty person, But they're really busy

1965
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:01,640
Speaker 1: in terms of like having to write grants themselves. We

1966
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:03,479
Speaker 1: do the bulk of the work and actually making the

1967
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: research happen. UM. We do a bulk of the training

1968
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,200
Speaker 1: in terms of the graduate students and the undergrads that

1969
01:52:08,240 --> 01:52:10,759
Speaker 1: are in the lab, and so we provide an enormous

1970
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 1: value to the university. But at the same time, while

1971
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:17,360
Speaker 1: we provide these values, UM, the university doesn't want to

1972
01:52:17,479 --> 01:52:21,680
Speaker 1: give us a fair living condition or affordable housing. And

1973
01:52:21,840 --> 01:52:23,639
Speaker 1: the last thing I'll say and then I'll let Alex

1974
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 1: talk about the other units, UM, is that you know,

1975
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:28,800
Speaker 1: we bring a ton of value to the university because

1976
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 1: of these grants. And for every hundred dollars of that

1977
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:35,240
Speaker 1: grant that is UM given to the university, the university

1978
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 1: charges things like the nih you know, um, you know,

1979
01:52:38,640 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 1: fifty eight dollars and indirects. So this is a ghost

1980
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,080
Speaker 1: money that we don't know where it goes. Our pis

1981
01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:47,719
Speaker 1: don't get to have a say over, and that's money

1982
01:52:47,800 --> 01:52:50,439
Speaker 1: that usually goes to things that capital projects that could

1983
01:52:50,479 --> 01:52:54,719
Speaker 1: go back to keeping you know, um, the post docs

1984
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:59,479
Speaker 1: actually living in uh An Okay living situation. We just

1985
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:03,439
Speaker 1: in what capital projects are so counter projects or things

1986
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:07,200
Speaker 1: like you know, um planning out building buildings that they

1987
01:53:07,280 --> 01:53:10,640
Speaker 1: want and other things things that aren't really like compensation

1988
01:53:10,720 --> 01:53:13,400
Speaker 1: based or employee based, you know, because the university, like

1989
01:53:13,439 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: you see as the biggest landowner and so they obviously

1990
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 1: we want more and more things that they can develop

1991
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:21,599
Speaker 1: or lands that they can buy um, and that's kind

1992
01:53:21,640 --> 01:53:24,120
Speaker 1: of what they kind of focus many of these indirects on.

1993
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 1: And I really don't know the clear picture on indirects,

1994
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 1: and that's kind of the problem is that we don't

1995
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 1: know where all this money kind of goes. It's they

1996
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:35,160
Speaker 1: if people. Obviously lots of our listeners are in San Diego.

1997
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:41,080
Speaker 1: The scale of construction at UCSD is incredible. Like I've

1998
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:43,519
Speaker 1: been here for fifteen years now, and I swear every

1999
01:53:43,560 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 1: time I go back there's a new building, like and

2000
01:53:47,120 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: they contend to student housing. It's really old student housing.

2001
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:52,880
Speaker 1: I think that they've built. But yeah, and if I

2002
01:53:52,920 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 1: can jump in about one of those, which relates a

2003
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 1: lot to why graduate students have become more active on

2004
01:53:59,160 --> 01:54:03,080
Speaker 1: this campus. UM. Three or four of those extraordinarily large

2005
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 1: buildings you're talking about, we're actually intended to be built

2006
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 1: as subsidized graduate student housing, where you would be you know,

2007
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:11,680
Speaker 1: you get on a waite list, you're guaranteed once you

2008
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:12,960
Speaker 1: get off the way, which you can live there for

2009
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:17,639
Speaker 1: two years and pay below market rent. UM. That lasted

2010
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:21,000
Speaker 1: for a little bit of time, but the university just

2011
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:24,439
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago or so almost doubled um

2012
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:27,600
Speaker 1: the price for those units. They tried to hide it

2013
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:31,519
Speaker 1: behind saying that their capacity increases, but um, what they're

2014
01:54:31,520 --> 01:54:33,320
Speaker 1: saying is for the same price as before, you can

2015
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 1: live with two people in a very small square footage

2016
01:54:35,760 --> 01:54:38,760
Speaker 1: studio apartment. UM. But really that studio is now just

2017
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:42,640
Speaker 1: double UM. So that is one of the things, uh,

2018
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:45,040
Speaker 1: certainly that we are concerned about is that, Yeah, money

2019
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:47,800
Speaker 1: of what significant portion university's budget does go into these

2020
01:54:47,880 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 1: capital improvement projects which are nominally intended for student and

2021
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:56,640
Speaker 1: UH and postdoc benefit UM, but which tend to come

2022
01:54:56,680 --> 01:54:58,880
Speaker 1: back and and not be quite as helpful in the

2023
01:54:58,920 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 1: long run. I mean, it seems like they're just doing

2024
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:05,440
Speaker 1: real estate speculation and then doing rent extraction from it,

2025
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 1: which yeah, and this is something they've done, like they

2026
01:55:08,080 --> 01:55:10,520
Speaker 1: did this, this is a very very similar thing in

2027
01:55:10,920 --> 01:55:14,240
Speaker 1: what like two thousand nine. Like like again, like they

2028
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 1: built what I built into your building. It was affordable

2029
01:55:16,440 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 1: for a short a period of time, and then it

2030
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:22,600
Speaker 1: suddenly became completely unaffordable, and like they've really consistently extracted

2031
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,920
Speaker 1: rent from the people that they are under paying. Yeah,

2032
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:28,920
Speaker 1: and those buildings were actually this this incident even got

2033
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot of faculty on our side because those buildings

2034
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 1: were a major um draw for how we were able

2035
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 1: to recruit new people to come and do research with us.

2036
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:39,440
Speaker 1: As we were saying, yeah, the costle living here is

2037
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:42,080
Speaker 1: really high. You're not going to get a huge stipend

2038
01:55:42,160 --> 01:55:44,880
Speaker 1: er salary, but we do have the subsidised housing. And

2039
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 1: people had actually already committed to do their PhD here

2040
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:51,400
Speaker 1: in labs of the university, and then the rent increase

2041
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:54,440
Speaker 1: came out that April or May and people said well no,

2042
01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:56,879
Speaker 1: and then they a bunch of people decommitted from programs.

2043
01:55:57,120 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 1: So it was it was a significant issue here. But

2044
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:03,800
Speaker 1: if not backed off of that, and the problem with

2045
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:06,360
Speaker 1: like the university being one of the biggest landlords, is

2046
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:09,560
Speaker 1: that when they increase the rents for these even grad housing,

2047
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:13,160
Speaker 1: it affects everyone else. So like prices, like my current rent,

2048
01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:16,080
Speaker 1: I live maybe a mile away from campus. My rent

2049
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:19,160
Speaker 1: was seventeen hundred, which was eating up most of my

2050
01:56:19,640 --> 01:56:23,760
Speaker 1: income anyway, and it went up to and you know,

2051
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:26,440
Speaker 1: this is directly tied to like the university setting a

2052
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,600
Speaker 1: higher market rate UM, which then allows them to hurt

2053
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: everyone else that lives you know, not just in around UCSD,

2054
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:36,480
Speaker 1: but also in San Diego generally. Yeah. One of the

2055
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:38,680
Speaker 1: big things about UM that we're trying to get the

2056
01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:40,640
Speaker 1: university to understand, and one of the reasons I'm proud

2057
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: of the demands that we're making UH in this round

2058
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:45,560
Speaker 1: of bargaining is is the effect we have on the

2059
01:56:45,640 --> 01:56:48,720
Speaker 1: local economy and of people who aren't even affiliated with

2060
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:52,320
Speaker 1: the university have their lives affected based on the rent

2061
01:56:52,400 --> 01:56:53,960
Speaker 1: and based on the cost of things because of the

2062
01:56:54,080 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: economic footprint that we have. And as how I mentioned,

2063
01:56:57,320 --> 01:57:01,160
Speaker 1: one of our demands is UM some more subsidized transit passes.

2064
01:57:01,200 --> 01:57:04,320
Speaker 1: The university already subsidizes It's a significant amount of transit,

2065
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:06,440
Speaker 1: but it's not enough, and it's not enough to actually

2066
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 1: really make a difference in terms of emissions in our region.

2067
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:11,839
Speaker 1: So we're trying to raise both our own working conditions

2068
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 1: as well as as make meaningful changes in the university's

2069
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:17,640
Speaker 1: impact in the region. And in response to that, the

2070
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:20,920
Speaker 1: university released in part a very funny statement the other

2071
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: day that accused us and used transit as an example,

2072
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:27,080
Speaker 1: accused us of having a quote social justice agenda. So

2073
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:31,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite sure if the university or um Ronda

2074
01:57:31,280 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 1: Santis wrote that particular sans release, but uh, it was.

2075
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:38,640
Speaker 1: It was quite funny, you know, Okay, like that. The

2076
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:41,680
Speaker 1: more thinking about this, right, this is a public university.

2077
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:45,880
Speaker 1: Why are they even charging rent? They own the land, right,

2078
01:57:46,200 --> 01:57:48,560
Speaker 1: why are they even charging rent in the first place?

2079
01:57:48,600 --> 01:57:51,480
Speaker 1: Like what what is? Oh my god? Like, well, it's

2080
01:57:51,520 --> 01:57:54,800
Speaker 1: just the the housing example I brought up was funded

2081
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:57,880
Speaker 1: through what they very proudly refer to as a public

2082
01:57:57,960 --> 01:58:01,680
Speaker 1: private partnership. So that's where the one is going. Oh great,

2083
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:07,400
Speaker 1: it's going to investors. And recently, for the post docs,

2084
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:10,800
Speaker 1: their solution to our housing crisis was they obtained some

2085
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:14,600
Speaker 1: building in downtown San Diego, which is you know, twelve

2086
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 1: or more miles away from campus and the building starts

2087
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:20,840
Speaker 1: at like rent of three thousand dollars or more. But

2088
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:23,640
Speaker 1: like I said, this building, yeah, with the one with

2089
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:26,680
Speaker 1: the creepy bed and the closet that comes out and

2090
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:30,880
Speaker 1: kills your cat. But you know what it has like

2091
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:35,960
Speaker 1: a closet that folds out o comes out. Is that

2092
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:38,360
Speaker 1: their extended downtown. Yeah. I've been trying to p R

2093
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:40,240
Speaker 1: A and a bunch of stuff about that building and

2094
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:45,920
Speaker 1: they've been quite reticent to hand it over and toddly. So, Alex,

2095
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:47,560
Speaker 1: is there any more contexts you wanted to add from

2096
01:58:47,600 --> 01:58:50,920
Speaker 1: your side about like is about sort of what is

2097
01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:55,480
Speaker 1: driving people to to ask for a strike authorization vote? Yeah, definitely.

2098
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:59,240
Speaker 1: I mean, our concerns as graduate students are certainly very

2099
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:03,040
Speaker 1: similar to a out of the concerns that postdoctoral students have,

2100
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:05,920
Speaker 1: except that we make even less money than they do.

2101
01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:10,200
Speaker 1: So certainly UH urgent on the compensation side, our units

2102
01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: are demanding a minimum UH graduate student stipend of fifty

2103
01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:17,920
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars a year UM, whereas UH none of

2104
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:20,320
Speaker 1: us make more than thirty three or thirty four right now,

2105
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:22,879
Speaker 1: and that's very deficient of the program and very dependent

2106
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 1: on your source of funding, so most make quite less

2107
01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 1: than that. UM. We also have a number of other

2108
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 1: issues that have come up and cause problems for students

2109
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:35,000
Speaker 1: that we want to be able to have a union

2110
01:59:35,080 --> 01:59:38,600
Speaker 1: in order to rectify. I mentioned that UM our Student

2111
01:59:38,680 --> 01:59:41,600
Speaker 1: Researchers United Union. It actually knew. We're bargaining for our

2112
01:59:41,680 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 1: first contract, and we think we're going to be able

2113
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:45,560
Speaker 1: to get a lot of practical benefits out of that,

2114
01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:48,080
Speaker 1: not just UM you know, in terms of a contract,

2115
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:51,320
Speaker 1: but actually something where we can have some parody and

2116
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:53,880
Speaker 1: and some for some some some organization to come to

2117
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:57,880
Speaker 1: back for us when the university creates issues. For example, Uh,

2118
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:00,120
Speaker 1: the university has known this for a long time. But

2119
02:00:00,360 --> 02:00:03,920
Speaker 1: the payroll system that manages graduate students stipends and fellowships

2120
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: and and and and to stipend disperse mints is a

2121
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:12,880
Speaker 1: bit unreliable for reasons that they can't explain. Boy, so

2122
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't a grad student, but I was

2123
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:18,800
Speaker 1: an undergrad when our Chicago's grad students when a strike,

2124
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:22,400
Speaker 1: and that was a big thing of like people like

2125
02:00:22,480 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 1: people would get paid in the university would sometimes they

2126
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't get paid enough. The wouldn't get paid at all.

2127
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 1: There was another time where they accidentally get overpaid and

2128
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:31,600
Speaker 1: the university wouldn't tell them and then they just take

2129
02:00:31,640 --> 02:00:35,720
Speaker 1: all the money out of their bank account and catastrophe. Yeah.

2130
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:42,800
Speaker 1: Is it similar things here? Very much? So? Yeah, yeah,

2131
02:00:42,840 --> 02:00:46,480
Speaker 1: there is at least My personal story with this is

2132
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:51,160
Speaker 1: um uh pretty much ever since so, I applied for

2133
02:00:51,280 --> 02:00:55,400
Speaker 1: and received in in i H Individual Fellowship. For all

2134
02:00:55,440 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 1: the other nerds out there, I got it. It's a

2135
02:00:57,480 --> 02:01:00,200
Speaker 1: thirty one in i H Fellowship. But essentially what that

2136
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:02,480
Speaker 1: says is the n i H likes my research proposal

2137
02:01:02,520 --> 02:01:04,720
Speaker 1: and they are going to fund a portion of the

2138
02:01:04,760 --> 02:01:07,960
Speaker 1: rest of my PhD. So in a sense, I've offset

2139
02:01:08,000 --> 02:01:10,000
Speaker 1: the cost of my labor by bringing an extra a

2140
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:14,080
Speaker 1: few tens of thousands of dollars to the university. Um However,

2141
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:17,960
Speaker 1: the processing for that has not been smooth, and there

2142
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:20,200
Speaker 1: are months where I simply have to remind them to

2143
02:01:20,280 --> 02:01:23,880
Speaker 1: pay me. And when that paycheck doesn't come through, my

2144
02:01:24,520 --> 02:01:26,920
Speaker 1: very hard working program coordinator, it's not her fault, but

2145
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:28,640
Speaker 1: she has been open support tickets. She has to go

2146
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:30,960
Speaker 1: through ten different levels of bureaucracy to find out where

2147
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 1: the hold up is, and so What that results in

2148
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:38,240
Speaker 1: is people often times not getting significant portions of their

2149
02:01:38,280 --> 02:01:40,960
Speaker 1: stipend and tell well into the beginning of the first

2150
02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 1: or second week of the month. UM. I personally am

2151
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:46,839
Speaker 1: been lucky enough to you know, build up some savings

2152
02:01:47,280 --> 02:01:50,680
Speaker 1: living here UM, but many students, especially our first year

2153
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:53,680
Speaker 1: is coming right out of college, have not been able

2154
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:55,840
Speaker 1: to do that. And a lot of times at the

2155
02:01:55,880 --> 02:01:57,840
Speaker 1: first of the month we have people, you know, people

2156
02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:00,640
Speaker 1: will come to me and say they just didn't they

2157
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't know why my stipmens I didn't work. I

2158
02:02:02,440 --> 02:02:05,480
Speaker 1: can't pay rent, or I can't get groceries. And these

2159
02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:08,080
Speaker 1: issues have been going on. This have not been one

2160
02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:10,280
Speaker 1: time things or sporadic things. These are things that have

2161
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:15,200
Speaker 1: been continuously going on for years. And what we're really

2162
02:02:15,280 --> 02:02:18,280
Speaker 1: hoping for is that with the creation of this Student

2163
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:20,440
Speaker 1: Researchers Union, that we will be able to not just

2164
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:22,600
Speaker 1: you know, send polite emails and say hi, can you

2165
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:25,800
Speaker 1: pay me if you get a chance, We will actually

2166
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:30,160
Speaker 1: have a literal international union that will be sending those

2167
02:02:30,240 --> 02:02:32,560
Speaker 1: emails and say, you know, you fix this, or by

2168
02:02:32,600 --> 02:02:34,280
Speaker 1: the terms of the contract, we get X, Y and

2169
02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:37,400
Speaker 1: Z damages UM. And we're hoping that that leads to

2170
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,560
Speaker 1: improvements in the system as a as a whole, because

2171
02:02:39,640 --> 02:02:42,160
Speaker 1: it will get more expensive. So that issaraily. One of

2172
02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:44,240
Speaker 1: the reasons we formed s are you and are after

2173
02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:48,040
Speaker 1: a brief vote to strike for recognition because the university

2174
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 1: ignored the employee religious part of California, which resulted in

2175
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:57,080
Speaker 1: some very spicy press releases from herbs which is great, um,

2176
02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:00,360
Speaker 1: but we did eventually get recognition and and now hopefully

2177
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:01,640
Speaker 1: in a couple in a month or so, we'll have

2178
02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:04,600
Speaker 1: a contract. Yeah, to explain for people as well who

2179
02:03:04,600 --> 02:03:07,000
Speaker 1: aren't familiar. If you're teaching right, you may not have

2180
02:03:07,120 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 1: been paid over the summer in some positions like I

2181
02:03:11,600 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 1: know I wasn't in mind, so like a late payment

2182
02:03:14,560 --> 02:03:17,760
Speaker 1: in September or even wait until October, like is you're

2183
02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:21,600
Speaker 1: already at the bottom of your savings, like there were

2184
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:25,880
Speaker 1: there were full quarters the headquarters at UCSD where like

2185
02:03:25,960 --> 02:03:28,720
Speaker 1: I lived in my car because it didn't make it

2186
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:30,600
Speaker 1: all the way through the summer and the savings I had,

2187
02:03:30,640 --> 02:03:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, So it really is. And I'm sure there

2188
02:03:32,840 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 1: are a lot of still like and how it's graduate

2189
02:03:35,080 --> 02:03:38,320
Speaker 1: students at UCSD because of the cost of living in

2190
02:03:38,400 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 1: the the wags are so divergent. Yeah, hey, Chris, you

2191
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:45,000
Speaker 1: you know what won't make you live in your car?

2192
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:50,320
Speaker 1: Oh God, there's no way that's It's going to be

2193
02:03:50,360 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 1: the watches that Harry patrol again, Todd Gloria, Okay, yeah,

2194
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:02,960
Speaker 1: this has brought to you by Landlords into The's adverts

2195
02:04:03,800 --> 02:04:06,600
Speaker 1: and we're back. And so what I wanted to talk

2196
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:08,960
Speaker 1: about was some of the actions that have been taken

2197
02:04:09,360 --> 02:04:12,720
Speaker 1: by student organizations so far, and also some of the

2198
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:16,000
Speaker 1: repercussions to come from those actions, because again, student organizing

2199
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:18,080
Speaker 1: is a little different, and I want people to understand that.

2200
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:22,720
Speaker 1: So maybe if it makes sense to start with this wildcats, right,

2201
02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:24,720
Speaker 1: we can start there. If you want to start further back,

2202
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:28,280
Speaker 1: then we can start fither back to you. You know,

2203
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:32,720
Speaker 1: is probably about the extent of my how far my

2204
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:35,280
Speaker 1: experience goes back, Um, But I can tell kind of

2205
02:04:35,320 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: the story of that a little bit. Um. There was

2206
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:41,400
Speaker 1: a movement that we referred to as COLA, which stands

2207
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 1: for a cost of living adjustment and convenient as very

2208
02:04:44,600 --> 02:04:46,960
Speaker 1: convenient acronym, which resulted in people coming to protest with

2209
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:48,760
Speaker 1: empty bottles coke on a stick. And that was a

2210
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:52,440
Speaker 1: really common science fantastic UM. But that was a movement

2211
02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:55,520
Speaker 1: that started at the University of California, Santa Cruz. One

2212
02:04:55,560 --> 02:04:58,600
Speaker 1: of the for people aren't familiar with. You see, it

2213
02:04:58,800 --> 02:05:01,920
Speaker 1: is really actually many campuses together in one system. In

2214
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,880
Speaker 1: this particular one started at our campus in Santa Cruz,

2215
02:05:05,840 --> 02:05:08,840
Speaker 1: UM and it was what is called a wildcat strike,

2216
02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:11,000
Speaker 1: which is if you're not family with unions that is

2217
02:05:11,560 --> 02:05:14,600
Speaker 1: um UM, at least in America, there are very uh

2218
02:05:15,040 --> 02:05:17,760
Speaker 1: careful rules that you have to follow of when exactly

2219
02:05:17,840 --> 02:05:20,480
Speaker 1: you are allowed to call a legally protected strike, and

2220
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:22,800
Speaker 1: that's often dependent on your contract or the label laws

2221
02:05:22,840 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 1: of your state. UM. But it is possible for workers

2222
02:05:26,240 --> 02:05:30,240
Speaker 1: to get together without the explicit approval of their union

2223
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 1: and UH take the added risk that involves to hold

2224
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:37,800
Speaker 1: a labor stoppage so UM I'm not sure of the

2225
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:41,080
Speaker 1: exact number, but somewhere between fifty and a hundred or

2226
02:05:41,160 --> 02:05:44,040
Speaker 1: two hundred or so t a s um SO teaching

2227
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:48,200
Speaker 1: assistance at the Santa Cruz campus decided to withhold teaching

2228
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:52,520
Speaker 1: and also final exam and UH semester or sorry quarter

2229
02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:58,040
Speaker 1: grades UH for a quarter uh in I believe this

2230
02:05:58,120 --> 02:06:02,000
Speaker 1: would have been fall or followed twenty team UM and

2231
02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:06,880
Speaker 1: they held UM. They held essentially daily pickets and protests

2232
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:11,560
Speaker 1: UM at their central insrance of their campus, and this

2233
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:17,320
Speaker 1: resulted in quite an extreme response from Santa Cruz administration,

2234
02:06:17,680 --> 02:06:20,600
Speaker 1: University of Santa Cruz administration. UH. They called in the

2235
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:25,280
Speaker 1: California Highway Patrol. UM. Also there's will I've asked, I'll

2236
02:06:25,320 --> 02:06:27,839
Speaker 1: send this to christ and James put in the footnotes.

2237
02:06:27,880 --> 02:06:29,960
Speaker 1: But there is a Vice article where someone did a

2238
02:06:30,040 --> 02:06:32,240
Speaker 1: lot of public records request and found out that the

2239
02:06:32,360 --> 02:06:35,960
Speaker 1: FBI was also involved, or at least FBI provided technology

2240
02:06:36,080 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 1: was involved. UM. There may have been sort of counter

2241
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:44,000
Speaker 1: terrorism UH units involved in the state in interesting ways UM.

2242
02:06:44,080 --> 02:06:47,440
Speaker 1: But essentially there was a highly militarized response to what

2243
02:06:47,640 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 1: was essentially a few grant students not doing grades. UM.

2244
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:54,680
Speaker 1: So this response, the images that came out of this,

2245
02:06:54,840 --> 02:06:57,440
Speaker 1: people getting arrested UH for being in the street and

2246
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:01,560
Speaker 1: such UM started to actually provoke sympathy actions across the

2247
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: rest of the campus and there was really a campus

2248
02:07:04,080 --> 02:07:08,480
Speaker 1: wide or system wide movement starting to build. And then

2249
02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:12,200
Speaker 1: March of happened and almost all of us are labs

2250
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:15,160
Speaker 1: shut down, the campuses shut down, UH. Those of us

2251
02:07:15,160 --> 02:07:17,560
Speaker 1: who work from home could, UM. Those of us who

2252
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:19,720
Speaker 1: couldn't often had you know, many other struggles to deal with,

2253
02:07:19,800 --> 02:07:23,120
Speaker 1: and that kind of killed the pandemic, essentially killed that movement.

2254
02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:27,280
Speaker 1: But at the same time, UM, you know these uhh

2255
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,720
Speaker 1: u A W twets at five and you could get

2256
02:07:29,760 --> 02:07:32,280
Speaker 1: ten already existed. SRU was starting to get formed at

2257
02:07:32,280 --> 02:07:34,680
Speaker 1: this time. We actually managed to get car check recognition

2258
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:36,440
Speaker 1: during the pandemic where no one could actually go to

2259
02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:38,520
Speaker 1: one central point in get cards. So I'm quite proud

2260
02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:41,320
Speaker 1: of that. And we sort of rebuilt off of kind

2261
02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:44,320
Speaker 1: of UM, sort of the ashes of that movement. And

2262
02:07:44,360 --> 02:07:47,480
Speaker 1: even though it was not UM and I personally supported,

2263
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:50,120
Speaker 1: but even though it was not a university sort of

2264
02:07:50,560 --> 02:07:56,200
Speaker 1: excuse me, certainly not university supported, but union supported uh movement. UM,

2265
02:07:56,320 --> 02:07:59,880
Speaker 1: I think it really helped a kind of um plants

2266
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:03,080
Speaker 1: needs for graduate students and post docx having some you know,

2267
02:08:03,320 --> 02:08:05,680
Speaker 1: some degree of labor consciousness. When I was doing walkers

2268
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:07,520
Speaker 1: to get people signed up for the union, get people

2269
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:09,960
Speaker 1: quote on the strike, they would say, you know, they

2270
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:11,720
Speaker 1: haven't obviously been keeping track of all the barguing, but

2271
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:13,320
Speaker 1: would say, oh, yeah, I remember, is this like in

2272
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:15,720
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz, I remember what they did, and people would

2273
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:18,920
Speaker 1: be and be ready, you know, to get involved. So um,

2274
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:24,200
Speaker 1: it was a deferred kind of benefit given the pandemic,

2275
02:08:24,320 --> 02:08:26,840
Speaker 1: but I think it helped get a lot of the

2276
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:30,280
Speaker 1: energy that we have today. Yeah, that's great to see actually,

2277
02:08:30,280 --> 02:08:32,920
Speaker 1: because iknew we really struggled with sort of political consciousness

2278
02:08:32,960 --> 02:08:35,880
Speaker 1: on the on the among the grab seeds in my

2279
02:08:36,000 --> 02:08:38,000
Speaker 1: time at E C. S D. And Yeah, I guess

2280
02:08:38,040 --> 02:08:39,520
Speaker 1: it makes us like that they were I remember, like

2281
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:41,800
Speaker 1: I were talking to some people who were sort of

2282
02:08:41,840 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 1: involved with it, and like watching the videos coming out

2283
02:08:44,040 --> 02:08:47,320
Speaker 1: of here, like that was I think, like probably the

2284
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:50,160
Speaker 1: most intensive military responsive I think I've ever seen to

2285
02:08:50,240 --> 02:08:53,200
Speaker 1: a strike at the US. It was wild. Like, Yeah,

2286
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:57,240
Speaker 1: the university chancellor, chancellor of Santa Cruz at that time

2287
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:00,280
Speaker 1: bragged or I don't know if it was Brad or

2288
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:03,480
Speaker 1: complained that they were spending three hundred thousand dollars a

2289
02:09:03,600 --> 02:09:08,440
Speaker 1: day on that response. Yeah, they went incredibly hard. And

2290
02:09:08,480 --> 02:09:11,200
Speaker 1: I want to kind of get into why, like the

2291
02:09:11,480 --> 02:09:16,600
Speaker 1: university is really really strongly strongly dislike strikes and partly

2292
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:19,720
Speaker 1: because they rely heavily on underpaid graduate student labor and

2293
02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:23,680
Speaker 1: increasingly relying heavily on underpaid adjunct labor as well to

2294
02:09:23,800 --> 02:09:27,200
Speaker 1: take the place of these expensive tenure track positions. So

2295
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:30,280
Speaker 1: can we talk about a little bit about like what

2296
02:09:30,440 --> 02:09:32,280
Speaker 1: it means to strike as a grad student, because it's

2297
02:09:32,320 --> 02:09:34,400
Speaker 1: not the same strike as a grad student as it

2298
02:09:34,520 --> 02:09:37,360
Speaker 1: is to strike if you work on a production lineup right, Like,

2299
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:40,520
Speaker 1: it really can make a serious impact on your whole career,

2300
02:09:40,600 --> 02:09:42,040
Speaker 1: and it can make it a serious impact on your

2301
02:09:42,080 --> 02:09:46,000
Speaker 1: relationship prets with your with your supervisor or advisor or mentor,

2302
02:09:46,400 --> 02:09:49,120
Speaker 1: and so can you can you one of you or

2303
02:09:49,200 --> 02:09:51,360
Speaker 1: both of you explained a little bit about the repercussions

2304
02:09:51,360 --> 02:09:55,920
Speaker 1: to come from striking as a graduate student. Yeah, I'm

2305
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:58,800
Speaker 1: having to share my thoughts and then and then um Tyther,

2306
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:00,920
Speaker 1: you can maybe talk about what uh what post docs

2307
02:10:00,960 --> 02:10:06,040
Speaker 1: are thinking? Um from the uh t A perspective, I

2308
02:10:06,120 --> 02:10:08,920
Speaker 1: think I don't want to. I'm not currently I'm currently

2309
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:11,520
Speaker 1: a student researchers, so I'm not currently teaching, I think,

2310
02:10:11,800 --> 02:10:13,840
Speaker 1: and that since it makes there's a little more cut

2311
02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:16,000
Speaker 1: and dry. It's you're not going to teach your discussion section,

2312
02:10:16,080 --> 02:10:18,160
Speaker 1: You're not going to grade your exams. There's are very

2313
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:20,680
Speaker 1: concrete things you can do that are sort of separate

2314
02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:24,280
Speaker 1: from your research work. For those of us paid to research,

2315
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:27,800
Speaker 1: it's a little bit um harder to figure out where

2316
02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:30,840
Speaker 1: exactly you're sometimes you're labor for the university is and

2317
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:34,960
Speaker 1: where you're um uh kind of research and and and

2318
02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:36,880
Speaker 1: not wanting to sort of harm yourself. Like I know

2319
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:39,760
Speaker 1: people who have planned their advancements to candidacy during this time,

2320
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:42,000
Speaker 1: and I think they're still going through with that because

2321
02:10:42,080 --> 02:10:44,080
Speaker 1: we can say, well, that's more academic, that's more your

2322
02:10:44,160 --> 02:10:47,680
Speaker 1: personal a kind of progress um in life, and and

2323
02:10:47,880 --> 02:10:52,040
Speaker 1: so those sort of things will continue, um. But but

2324
02:10:52,240 --> 02:10:55,760
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the things, um that that's

2325
02:10:55,800 --> 02:11:01,720
Speaker 1: sort of um important is is um sort of your

2326
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:05,720
Speaker 1: day to day work in the lab and not necessarily

2327
02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:08,200
Speaker 1: saying your research project, but on just sort of maintaining things,

2328
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:12,360
Speaker 1: answering questions, communicating with collaborators, sharing your results with people,

2329
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:16,839
Speaker 1: helping undergraduates in the lab, helping um you know, prepare

2330
02:11:17,000 --> 02:11:20,600
Speaker 1: figures or prepare text for your advisor to submit grants,

2331
02:11:20,680 --> 02:11:23,080
Speaker 1: and all these other things that are not necessarily like

2332
02:11:23,160 --> 02:11:25,560
Speaker 1: I am doing this particular, you know, I think for

2333
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:27,720
Speaker 1: my degree. UM. So I know a lot of people

2334
02:11:27,720 --> 02:11:31,240
Speaker 1: are worried about, especially because in the life sciences. We

2335
02:11:31,320 --> 02:11:33,880
Speaker 1: have situations where we have experiments that go on for

2336
02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:36,920
Speaker 1: months and they cost tens of thousands of dollars to run,

2337
02:11:36,960 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 1: and if you miss a time point on that we're

2338
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:40,560
Speaker 1: throwing months of your life and out of the window,

2339
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:43,600
Speaker 1: and that it hurts yourself really more than the university.

2340
02:11:43,680 --> 02:11:47,320
Speaker 1: So it's been a I think, especially because organizing grad

2341
02:11:47,400 --> 02:11:51,720
Speaker 1: student researchers is something new, at least in America. UM.

2342
02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:55,640
Speaker 1: I think it's something that in the coming years will

2343
02:11:55,840 --> 02:11:58,640
Speaker 1: be kind of considered more and people will kind of

2344
02:11:58,760 --> 02:12:00,520
Speaker 1: I think I hope. What I hope is people learn

2345
02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 1: from our whatever our experience happens to be next week

2346
02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:06,120
Speaker 1: when we walk out and start to kind of calibrate,

2347
02:12:06,200 --> 02:12:08,000
Speaker 1: what does it look like? What is what is an

2348
02:12:08,040 --> 02:12:11,560
Speaker 1: effective work stoppage for a researcher look like? UM? And

2349
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 1: I think people are are We've had a lot of discussions,

2350
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:15,960
Speaker 1: We've had programmed meetings, so a bunch of students from

2351
02:12:16,000 --> 02:12:18,200
Speaker 1: my program got together and talked about this UM and

2352
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:20,320
Speaker 1: I think it might end up looking different for different people,

2353
02:12:20,400 --> 02:12:22,840
Speaker 1: But really what we're trying to communicate is is don't

2354
02:12:22,880 --> 02:12:27,000
Speaker 1: do something that's going to UM, you know, damage yourself. UM.

2355
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:30,879
Speaker 1: But but but do what you can to disrupt normal operations.

2356
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:33,880
Speaker 1: Show up at the picket, um uh, and and make

2357
02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:37,120
Speaker 1: sure you you communicate, you know, to everyone and around

2358
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:39,960
Speaker 1: you why you're leaving, and and and you know, cause

2359
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:42,680
Speaker 1: as much disruption as you can. That's kind of what

2360
02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:46,080
Speaker 1: our our thinking is at the moment. Yeah, and I

2361
02:12:46,160 --> 02:12:48,880
Speaker 1: thin guts you want to add t Yeah, so I

2362
02:12:48,920 --> 02:12:51,960
Speaker 1: want to add that. UM. So for this one, this strike,

2363
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:54,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the reason that we're doing it is because

2364
02:12:55,040 --> 02:12:58,120
Speaker 1: they're not coming to the table in good faith. So

2365
02:12:58,240 --> 02:13:00,120
Speaker 1: I was going to correct my numbers. So we had

2366
02:13:00,160 --> 02:13:03,520
Speaker 1: twenty seven UM complaints that we fouled with the California

2367
02:13:03,600 --> 02:13:08,280
Speaker 1: Public Employment Relations Board, and six of those were actually

2368
02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:11,760
Speaker 1: official complaints to the University of California. And so this

2369
02:13:11,800 --> 02:13:14,720
Speaker 1: strike is a little different because it's you know, it's

2370
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:18,600
Speaker 1: interesting to have to explain to other people why this

2371
02:13:18,720 --> 02:13:22,000
Speaker 1: is so important, especially in such a short time frame.

2372
02:13:22,560 --> 02:13:24,320
Speaker 1: And so for post docs, like on a day to

2373
02:13:24,360 --> 02:13:28,839
Speaker 1: day basis, we do so much research that every day matters,

2374
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:32,480
Speaker 1: and our employment schedules aren't very long. So I say

2375
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:34,520
Speaker 1: that post docs are generally in there for five years.

2376
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:36,880
Speaker 1: But p I don't want to keep a post talk

2377
02:13:36,920 --> 02:13:40,880
Speaker 1: for a year or two or longer, especially like I've

2378
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:44,200
Speaker 1: noticed a pattern here in academia in general that post docs.

2379
02:13:44,320 --> 02:13:46,720
Speaker 1: It's some people prefer to keep them a year and

2380
02:13:46,760 --> 02:13:48,840
Speaker 1: two years because by the time you ask for pay

2381
02:13:48,920 --> 02:13:51,200
Speaker 1: raises or the time you ask for curd development and

2382
02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:53,480
Speaker 1: to get to your next stage, you're not worth it

2383
02:13:53,560 --> 02:13:56,760
Speaker 1: to them anymore, and they change you out. So when

2384
02:13:56,840 --> 02:13:58,720
Speaker 1: I come in as a post doc, each position, I've

2385
02:13:58,760 --> 02:14:02,080
Speaker 1: come in everyday mattered and setting up my research experiment,

2386
02:14:02,120 --> 02:14:04,520
Speaker 1: setting up my papers, setting up what I was gonna

2387
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:06,680
Speaker 1: do for the job search, because you don't have that

2388
02:14:06,760 --> 02:14:08,760
Speaker 1: much time. It takes you know, six to eight months

2389
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:11,879
Speaker 1: to get get even an initial interview for a faculty

2390
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:14,600
Speaker 1: job UM, and that's a rare thing that you would

2391
02:14:14,600 --> 02:14:16,720
Speaker 1: get anyway. I think about two percent of post talks

2392
02:14:16,760 --> 02:14:20,720
Speaker 1: become faculty at this point, and so we're giving up

2393
02:14:20,720 --> 02:14:23,480
Speaker 1: a lot of Yeah, it's really bleak, and so like

2394
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:26,920
Speaker 1: right now, I think the fact that we authorize a

2395
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:30,040
Speaker 1: strike based on the UM bad faith bargaining. We did

2396
02:14:30,120 --> 02:14:32,320
Speaker 1: that because like things are so important, but we know

2397
02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:34,040
Speaker 1: what we're gonna lose. So if you have to strike

2398
02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:37,600
Speaker 1: for weeks, that is lost experiments, that's lost time to

2399
02:14:37,720 --> 02:14:42,280
Speaker 1: do our publications be competitive for this competitive job field. UM.

2400
02:14:42,360 --> 02:14:43,920
Speaker 1: And also we're gonna let down a lot of people

2401
02:14:44,160 --> 02:14:46,360
Speaker 1: because we're kind of anchors in our lab for the

2402
02:14:46,440 --> 02:14:50,080
Speaker 1: undergraduates and the under and the graduate students and also

2403
02:14:50,160 --> 02:14:52,720
Speaker 1: the text in our lab. And so if we're gone,

2404
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:54,640
Speaker 1: the lab just kind of die, especially if the grass

2405
02:14:54,680 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 1: roots walk out too. UM. But I think we know

2406
02:14:59,640 --> 02:15:03,560
Speaker 1: that the value that I would get personally for my career, UM,

2407
02:15:04,280 --> 02:15:07,040
Speaker 1: it isn't worth it if I see not only myself

2408
02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 1: suffering each year, not being able to make my rent

2409
02:15:09,520 --> 02:15:12,200
Speaker 1: enable to feed myself, like eating one mill a day

2410
02:15:12,480 --> 02:15:15,960
Speaker 1: is um not really great, and being able to afford

2411
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:18,840
Speaker 1: one UM wardrobe this entire two years of employment is

2412
02:15:18,880 --> 02:15:21,600
Speaker 1: not great either. UM. And I'm a post doc and

2413
02:15:21,640 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 1: I see the graduate students who I was a graduate

2414
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:26,640
Speaker 1: student two years ago. There's not a real border there,

2415
02:15:27,240 --> 02:15:29,720
Speaker 1: UM and seeing them suffer. You know, most of us

2416
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:31,640
Speaker 1: post talks don't want to see anyone else have to

2417
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:34,240
Speaker 1: go through that. So it's worth the lost time, and

2418
02:15:34,440 --> 02:15:36,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of encalculable. But I could say what we

2419
02:15:36,680 --> 02:15:39,920
Speaker 1: would lose because grants are so up in the air.

2420
02:15:40,120 --> 02:15:43,000
Speaker 1: But you know, We're talking millions of dollars for a

2421
02:15:43,040 --> 02:15:46,080
Speaker 1: grant cycle being lost if a post doc can't you know,

2422
02:15:46,360 --> 02:15:50,280
Speaker 1: submit the application. We're talking you know, uh what Alex said,

2423
02:15:50,280 --> 02:15:52,960
Speaker 1: how expensive this equipment and experiments are in these big

2424
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:58,080
Speaker 1: labs UM in biology and engineering. So it's really immeasurable.

2425
02:15:58,120 --> 02:15:59,400
Speaker 1: And I think it's on the u C to come

2426
02:15:59,440 --> 02:16:01,800
Speaker 1: to the table and good faith and say, hey, let's

2427
02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:04,040
Speaker 1: not do let's not's not ruin their research and their

2428
02:16:04,080 --> 02:16:06,960
Speaker 1: teaching UM, because that's the thing that we're here to

2429
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:09,800
Speaker 1: support UM. And I just want to say that overall,

2430
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:13,080
Speaker 1: we're only less than one percent of you see's total budgets.

2431
02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:15,160
Speaker 1: So what is it to give us a fair wage

2432
02:16:15,200 --> 02:16:18,000
Speaker 1: and a good housing so we can continue to not UM,

2433
02:16:18,160 --> 02:16:20,240
Speaker 1: to continue to continue to do our research and teaching

2434
02:16:20,320 --> 02:16:21,880
Speaker 1: and not have to go and strike and lose all

2435
02:16:21,880 --> 02:16:24,960
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, yeah, I think it's very fair. You

2436
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:28,040
Speaker 1: know what else, It only pays out one percent of

2437
02:16:28,120 --> 02:16:34,920
Speaker 1: their income to their employee, said the Washington to stay

2438
02:16:34,959 --> 02:16:39,320
Speaker 1: higher patrol notes not they pay Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it's disappointing,

2439
02:16:39,400 --> 02:16:42,960
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, We're we're back. Yeah. So I think

2440
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:45,520
Speaker 1: you've done a really excellent job of explaining sort of

2441
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:48,760
Speaker 1: what's at stake and what people can stand to lose.

2442
02:16:48,879 --> 02:16:51,440
Speaker 1: I know it can be very confusing. Also as a teacher,

2443
02:16:51,480 --> 02:16:54,080
Speaker 1: I will add, like what do you do when you're

2444
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:56,560
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to communicate right like, so, like what

2445
02:16:56,720 --> 02:16:58,480
Speaker 1: what about when your students email you? That can be

2446
02:16:58,600 --> 02:17:02,200
Speaker 1: very difficult or especially if it comes towards the time

2447
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:04,760
Speaker 1: when you're writing application letters or your writing letters of

2448
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:07,120
Speaker 1: support for your your be a students who want to

2449
02:17:07,120 --> 02:17:09,080
Speaker 1: go into an m a. Or pH d program, like

2450
02:17:09,720 --> 02:17:13,400
Speaker 1: you don't want like many of us teach as much

2451
02:17:13,440 --> 02:17:16,640
Speaker 1: out of vocation as for the thirty ye old grand

2452
02:17:16,680 --> 02:17:18,000
Speaker 1: a year. We can make it a place where the

2453
02:17:18,040 --> 02:17:21,400
Speaker 1: cost of living is insane, and so like we want

2454
02:17:21,480 --> 02:17:23,680
Speaker 1: to help those people because we care about our students

2455
02:17:23,760 --> 02:17:25,600
Speaker 1: and and so it can be very hard for us

2456
02:17:25,680 --> 02:17:27,920
Speaker 1: to go on strike. I will say that we're very

2457
02:17:27,959 --> 02:17:30,080
Speaker 1: fortunate in the community college district here, which is a

2458
02:17:30,160 --> 02:17:33,560
Speaker 1: different system and for people who aren't aware it's an

2459
02:17:33,840 --> 02:17:37,600
Speaker 1: entirely different university system. We have a very strong union

2460
02:17:37,879 --> 02:17:40,400
Speaker 1: and as a result, our I junct faculty here are

2461
02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:42,280
Speaker 1: I believe some of the best paid in the country.

2462
02:17:43,160 --> 02:17:46,080
Speaker 1: The teacher the community college sometimes and it's exclusively thanks

2463
02:17:46,160 --> 02:17:50,360
Speaker 1: to a strong union and faculty being willing to back

2464
02:17:50,480 --> 02:17:53,440
Speaker 1: up that union, so like it does work, which is

2465
02:17:53,760 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 1: nice to see. But let's talk about some of the

2466
02:17:56,600 --> 02:17:59,520
Speaker 1: actions that have been taken already and understand it. Some

2467
02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:03,720
Speaker 1: folks occupied like a very busy intersection earlier this year

2468
02:18:03,760 --> 02:18:06,360
Speaker 1: in the spring, right you want to talk about that. Yeah,

2469
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:12,480
Speaker 1: that was the action that we had um UM back

2470
02:18:12,520 --> 02:18:17,280
Speaker 1: in April UM to sort of raise awareness of the

2471
02:18:17,520 --> 02:18:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, issues of bargaining and some of the things

2472
02:18:19,400 --> 02:18:22,040
Speaker 1: that we're going out at that time UM and I

2473
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:25,560
Speaker 1: was really impressive how well it went, actually UM in

2474
02:18:25,720 --> 02:18:27,960
Speaker 1: terms of the number of students who came out number

2475
02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:29,880
Speaker 1: we are actually willing to participate in that. But yeah,

2476
02:18:29,879 --> 02:18:33,760
Speaker 1: we gotta several hundred people altogether marched down to UM

2477
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:36,879
Speaker 1: the intersection for our San Diego listeners. That's via La

2478
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:38,720
Speaker 1: Joya and La Hoya Village Drive, just so you can

2479
02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:41,080
Speaker 1: get a picture of how important of an intersection this

2480
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:43,440
Speaker 1: was those of you who know it. UM and did

2481
02:18:43,520 --> 02:18:45,960
Speaker 1: not allow any cars at the intersection for an entire

2482
02:18:46,000 --> 02:18:52,080
Speaker 1: rush hour, which was fantastic UM and the whole foods

2483
02:18:53,160 --> 02:18:58,800
Speaker 1: we did. Yeah, yeah, I took UH I hope that

2484
02:18:59,200 --> 02:19:02,120
Speaker 1: UM sic p D build UCSD for that because they

2485
02:19:02,160 --> 02:19:06,280
Speaker 1: had about fifty officers controlling traffic to helicopters. UM it

2486
02:19:06,440 --> 02:19:09,280
Speaker 1: was quite a response. I talked to an undercover cop

2487
02:19:09,360 --> 02:19:11,800
Speaker 1: on the bridge over the highway they had. He was

2488
02:19:11,920 --> 02:19:15,040
Speaker 1: upset that he was missing something, some baseball game or something.

2489
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:20,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I could have had a real job

2490
02:19:20,680 --> 02:19:25,240
Speaker 1: just left. Yeah, I'm actually staring at that intersection right now,

2491
02:19:25,240 --> 02:19:26,840
Speaker 1: And if I could tell you how busy it is,

2492
02:19:27,080 --> 02:19:30,760
Speaker 1: Like we were terrified of what, Like safety was the

2493
02:19:30,879 --> 02:19:33,280
Speaker 1: most important thing, and I think we did a good

2494
02:19:33,320 --> 02:19:35,560
Speaker 1: job being sure everyone was safe. But like it's busy,

2495
02:19:35,720 --> 02:19:40,920
Speaker 1: it's it is a heartline over your My first day

2496
02:19:40,959 --> 02:19:43,800
Speaker 1: in America, I was walking with another Grats to try

2497
02:19:43,840 --> 02:19:46,080
Speaker 1: and find some food and we tried to cross that road,

2498
02:19:46,120 --> 02:19:48,520
Speaker 1: goes stuck in the middle, got to jaywalking ticket and

2499
02:19:49,600 --> 02:19:53,240
Speaker 1: right I knew I had made a great choice in

2500
02:19:53,280 --> 02:19:56,160
Speaker 1: coming to California at that time. Yeah, that is that

2501
02:19:56,360 --> 02:19:58,840
Speaker 1: road takes like if you want to cross all three ways,

2502
02:19:58,840 --> 02:20:01,000
Speaker 1: because it's one of our one of stupid California roads,

2503
02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:02,960
Speaker 1: we can only cross the intersection on three sides, so

2504
02:20:03,040 --> 02:20:04,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna go all the way around. That's going to

2505
02:20:04,640 --> 02:20:08,240
Speaker 1: be like five six, seven minutes waitning at crosswalks. It's

2506
02:20:08,320 --> 02:20:11,560
Speaker 1: it's but that's that's for maybe a different podcast about

2507
02:20:12,320 --> 02:20:15,520
Speaker 1: nightmares here in San Diego. UM. I think there's one

2508
02:20:15,560 --> 02:20:17,840
Speaker 1: other action that we had that I would really want

2509
02:20:17,879 --> 02:20:20,440
Speaker 1: to highlight and and this was about, you know, related

2510
02:20:20,480 --> 02:20:22,600
Speaker 1: to a post dox. So maybe maybe Tyler can kind

2511
02:20:22,600 --> 02:20:27,080
Speaker 1: of film the details UM about the the action we

2512
02:20:27,200 --> 02:20:30,720
Speaker 1: had for UM for the UH postox redence. I can't.

2513
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:34,320
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm blanking on her name, but made may

2514
02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:36,560
Speaker 1: be able to talk about There's been so many post

2515
02:20:36,680 --> 02:20:39,560
Speaker 1: docs and actions. So this is a really horrible case

2516
02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:42,640
Speaker 1: where someone who you know had brought up that there

2517
02:20:42,720 --> 02:20:47,000
Speaker 1: was data UH ethics issues in their lab, which obviously,

2518
02:20:47,080 --> 02:20:50,240
Speaker 1: as any post soccer graduate student telling your boss that

2519
02:20:50,280 --> 02:20:53,520
Speaker 1: they're doing something wrong never goes well. UM, but this

2520
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:56,160
Speaker 1: person was bringing up this issue. This person also was

2521
02:20:56,520 --> 02:21:00,760
Speaker 1: UM was pregnant and UM at that point the person,

2522
02:21:00,879 --> 02:21:03,240
Speaker 1: once they found out that this person was pregnant, UM

2523
02:21:03,280 --> 02:21:05,960
Speaker 1: had decided, oh, well, you need to leave by the

2524
02:21:06,080 --> 02:21:09,280
Speaker 1: end of the year, UM, which would make the make

2525
02:21:09,360 --> 02:21:11,240
Speaker 1: it to where the person would get deported. Because this

2526
02:21:11,320 --> 02:21:15,480
Speaker 1: was an international scholar UM in their third trime. Master UM,

2527
02:21:15,879 --> 02:21:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, in in January, and so it was too

2528
02:21:19,840 --> 02:21:23,640
Speaker 1: more insurance during her third trimester. Yeah, and so Alex,

2529
02:21:23,720 --> 02:21:25,240
Speaker 1: if if you have a good memory of the action,

2530
02:21:25,280 --> 02:21:28,120
Speaker 1: I'll let you speak about it, because it was pretty awesome. Yeah,

2531
02:21:28,200 --> 02:21:29,959
Speaker 1: it was pretty great. We got a ton of people

2532
02:21:30,040 --> 02:21:34,840
Speaker 1: to rally in the health sciences area of campus. UM

2533
02:21:35,040 --> 02:21:38,720
Speaker 1: people essentially set up little mini pickets of the relevant

2534
02:21:38,760 --> 02:21:42,240
Speaker 1: buildings UM basically not blocking the insurance, but making sure

2535
02:21:42,280 --> 02:21:44,960
Speaker 1: everyone went in new exactly you know why we were

2536
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:47,600
Speaker 1: there and what the issue was. And they were eventually

2537
02:21:47,840 --> 02:21:49,440
Speaker 1: towards the end of the day. I was I wasn't

2538
02:21:49,440 --> 02:21:51,800
Speaker 1: there at that point, but they were able to actually

2539
02:21:51,879 --> 02:21:56,680
Speaker 1: get up to UM where UM the chair of her

2540
02:21:56,720 --> 02:22:00,280
Speaker 1: department's office in lab were UM and I there nothing

2541
02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:01,800
Speaker 1: threatening that went on, but I do believe the cops

2542
02:22:01,840 --> 02:22:06,800
Speaker 1: were called nonetheless UM and and my understanding was this

2543
02:22:06,959 --> 02:22:09,000
Speaker 1: is just rumor. But he told someone that he really

2544
02:22:09,040 --> 02:22:10,840
Speaker 1: needed them to leave because he had to get to

2545
02:22:10,879 --> 02:22:13,720
Speaker 1: the bathroom and didn't want to talk to the students.

2546
02:22:13,840 --> 02:22:16,920
Speaker 1: So that was funny part of the story. UM. But

2547
02:22:17,000 --> 02:22:19,960
Speaker 1: they did get him on video because they eventually were

2548
02:22:20,000 --> 02:22:21,880
Speaker 1: able to talk to the chair of the department and

2549
02:22:22,320 --> 02:22:25,360
Speaker 1: got him on video saying I think this person deserves

2550
02:22:25,400 --> 02:22:27,680
Speaker 1: an extension of their contract. And that day or two

2551
02:22:27,760 --> 02:22:32,280
Speaker 1: later UCSD did actually award this post doc um and

2552
02:22:32,400 --> 02:22:35,360
Speaker 1: extension of her contract. But yeah, that this is an

2553
02:22:35,400 --> 02:22:37,840
Speaker 1: incident that you never would have seen the light of day,

2554
02:22:38,240 --> 02:22:41,640
Speaker 1: um unless this had been raised. Uh, unless we hadn't

2555
02:22:41,640 --> 02:22:44,640
Speaker 1: already had this kind of activists kind of consciousness going

2556
02:22:44,680 --> 02:22:46,720
Speaker 1: on because of the ongoing bargaining, and the union was

2557
02:22:46,760 --> 02:22:49,360
Speaker 1: able to post union was able to win kind of

2558
02:22:49,520 --> 02:22:51,960
Speaker 1: I think out of a really terrible situation, I think

2559
02:22:51,959 --> 02:22:54,760
Speaker 1: salvage probably one of the best outcome. She'll be able

2560
02:22:54,840 --> 02:22:57,480
Speaker 1: to have her child here um and look for new

2561
02:22:57,560 --> 02:23:00,600
Speaker 1: jobs in the meantime to um, you know whatever her

2562
02:23:00,600 --> 02:23:02,880
Speaker 1: family wants to do extended visa or or go back

2563
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:07,600
Speaker 1: to their original country. But they essentially they have security, uh,

2564
02:23:07,720 --> 02:23:10,959
Speaker 1: some measure of security now, um, which wouldn't have happened

2565
02:23:10,959 --> 02:23:16,040
Speaker 1: about uh raising uh quite a disruption over it. And

2566
02:23:16,200 --> 02:23:17,760
Speaker 1: I also want to say that this was a post

2567
02:23:17,840 --> 02:23:20,480
Speaker 1: doc and the grad students came out to protect a

2568
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:23,840
Speaker 1: post doc. So all these invisible lines at the university

2569
02:23:23,920 --> 02:23:26,080
Speaker 1: draws like obviously there were post docs there too. But

2570
02:23:26,560 --> 02:23:29,000
Speaker 1: if you think about the number of graduate students, like

2571
02:23:29,560 --> 02:23:31,360
Speaker 1: they are the immune system that has come out and

2572
02:23:31,480 --> 02:23:34,160
Speaker 1: saved a bunch of post docs through these actions. There

2573
02:23:34,240 --> 02:23:36,840
Speaker 1: was another action with someone that was being let go

2574
02:23:37,000 --> 02:23:40,520
Speaker 1: within four months of their employment, um in an inappropriate way.

2575
02:23:40,640 --> 02:23:42,600
Speaker 1: This person was kind of using their lab as that

2576
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:46,160
Speaker 1: research mill I talked about only really hired women post

2577
02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:49,240
Speaker 1: docs and really did not treat them well, um despite

2578
02:23:49,280 --> 02:23:53,600
Speaker 1: doing research in women's health. And um, the grad students

2579
02:23:53,640 --> 02:23:56,360
Speaker 1: also came out for that, and we got to save

2580
02:23:56,440 --> 02:24:01,680
Speaker 1: that person from getting immediately fired and they're better off. Man. Hell, yeah, yeah,

2581
02:24:01,840 --> 02:24:04,320
Speaker 1: it's great. I think that sort of diarity is super important,

2582
02:24:04,800 --> 02:24:07,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, is the only thing that stops university from

2583
02:24:07,959 --> 02:24:11,040
Speaker 1: just rapidly exploiting everyone apart from like a hundred and

2584
02:24:11,080 --> 02:24:14,320
Speaker 1: fifty people at the very top. Actually, on that note,

2585
02:24:14,400 --> 02:24:17,840
Speaker 1: can I ask have you been working with like I guess,

2586
02:24:19,040 --> 02:24:21,840
Speaker 1: what's the tactical name for them, like the like the

2587
02:24:22,840 --> 02:24:27,000
Speaker 1: like the the other non student unions on campus. Oh

2588
02:24:27,040 --> 02:24:32,160
Speaker 1: it's like a f tis yeah yeah, like yeah, yeah yeah.

2589
02:24:32,360 --> 02:24:36,240
Speaker 1: They Unfortunately most of the unions don't have sympathy strike

2590
02:24:36,440 --> 02:24:40,040
Speaker 1: or uh those sorts of things. In their contract if

2591
02:24:40,120 --> 02:24:43,240
Speaker 1: if they cannot do an official strike if they are

2592
02:24:43,720 --> 02:24:47,160
Speaker 1: under contract. But yeah, they've definitely been helping in terms

2593
02:24:47,200 --> 02:24:50,160
Speaker 1: of kind of raising consciousness and awareness. I know, the

2594
02:24:50,280 --> 02:24:54,199
Speaker 1: ones that have the ability to, um, you know, maybe

2595
02:24:54,640 --> 02:24:57,199
Speaker 1: cancel their classes or use class time to teach about

2596
02:24:57,240 --> 02:24:59,560
Speaker 1: the strike or you know, do things like that. UM

2597
02:25:00,040 --> 02:25:03,800
Speaker 1: have been um uh there there that they're planning to

2598
02:25:03,879 --> 02:25:06,520
Speaker 1: do that. UM. What's nice as well is that this

2599
02:25:06,600 --> 02:25:08,960
Speaker 1: isn't really a union, but there's kind of a non

2600
02:25:09,240 --> 02:25:13,720
Speaker 1: university affiliated sort of group of faculty who you know,

2601
02:25:13,840 --> 02:25:17,040
Speaker 1: advocate for for for changes across the entire campus, and

2602
02:25:17,080 --> 02:25:19,720
Speaker 1: they're organizing a very large petition and letter writing campaign

2603
02:25:19,920 --> 02:25:23,440
Speaker 1: from faculty members supporting our action, which I think is

2604
02:25:23,600 --> 02:25:27,040
Speaker 1: is really critical because the university won't listen to us,

2605
02:25:27,120 --> 02:25:30,160
Speaker 1: but they may listen to if you get to a

2606
02:25:30,240 --> 02:25:34,680
Speaker 1: critical massive of professors supporting what we're doing. UM. So

2607
02:25:34,920 --> 02:25:37,640
Speaker 1: there's been uh, you know, not universal certainly, but but

2608
02:25:37,760 --> 02:25:40,440
Speaker 1: there's been a great deal of solidarity, even coming from

2609
02:25:41,400 --> 02:25:43,200
Speaker 1: some of the people who who the university I think

2610
02:25:43,200 --> 02:25:45,440
Speaker 1: has relied on to be more on their side, which

2611
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:51,640
Speaker 1: is the professors, like the Faculty Association. I think that's

2612
02:25:51,680 --> 02:25:54,440
Speaker 1: pretty awesome because you can imagine that you see doesn't

2613
02:25:54,440 --> 02:25:58,400
Speaker 1: want them to ever unionize, but they obviously see the

2614
02:25:58,480 --> 02:26:01,240
Speaker 1: leaky pipeline where grass students or you know, either not

2615
02:26:01,360 --> 02:26:04,600
Speaker 1: staying in their programs or post talks aren't coming. And

2616
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:06,040
Speaker 1: you just you know, what you happen to have at

2617
02:26:06,040 --> 02:26:07,760
Speaker 1: the end of that is people that have generational wealth

2618
02:26:08,240 --> 02:26:10,440
Speaker 1: um at the end of it, who happened to stay

2619
02:26:10,480 --> 02:26:12,800
Speaker 1: in these programs. And I think that's what really motive

2620
02:26:12,800 --> 02:26:14,560
Speaker 1: the facony to come out and say something because like

2621
02:26:14,840 --> 02:26:18,440
Speaker 1: you see says, oh, we support equity university, but then

2622
02:26:18,480 --> 02:26:21,120
Speaker 1: they have seen constantly the university not do anything materially

2623
02:26:21,160 --> 02:26:26,600
Speaker 1: to change that. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good to

2624
02:26:26,640 --> 02:26:29,920
Speaker 1: see the fact that he's shooting up UM. And again

2625
02:26:29,959 --> 02:26:33,240
Speaker 1: that's it's sort of that's that's how we fix these things, right,

2626
02:26:33,440 --> 02:26:35,959
Speaker 1: is by staking together with sort of dearity, with organizing.

2627
02:26:36,320 --> 02:26:38,960
Speaker 1: So maybe to finish up, if we talk about what

2628
02:26:39,080 --> 02:26:42,360
Speaker 1: next week is going to look like, what next week

2629
02:26:42,480 --> 02:26:44,480
Speaker 1: might look like I guess or I guess it'll it'll

2630
02:26:44,480 --> 02:26:47,160
Speaker 1: be this week by the time this comes out, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

2631
02:26:47,200 --> 02:26:48,760
Speaker 1: So what can people look for and the on the

2632
02:26:48,840 --> 02:26:53,520
Speaker 1: timeline from U c s D from the university or

2633
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:57,000
Speaker 1: from from from from the from the strike. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Well,

2634
02:26:57,000 --> 02:27:02,680
Speaker 1: we'll have a number of pickets throughout campus, UM mostly

2635
02:27:02,760 --> 02:27:04,920
Speaker 1: kind of trying to keep them geographically oriented, so everyone

2636
02:27:04,959 --> 02:27:06,640
Speaker 1: from the surrounding buildings just go to you know, one

2637
02:27:06,760 --> 02:27:09,200
Speaker 1: one specific spot. We've we're doing you know, sign ups,

2638
02:27:09,320 --> 02:27:12,120
Speaker 1: organizing strike pay, all those sorts of typical things have

2639
02:27:12,240 --> 02:27:16,080
Speaker 1: been going on this week, UM, and the walkout begins

2640
02:27:16,160 --> 02:27:20,560
Speaker 1: November for across you know, not just UCSD but all

2641
02:27:20,640 --> 02:27:25,520
Speaker 1: the campuses. So that's our total um UM bargaining unit

2642
02:27:25,560 --> 02:27:28,800
Speaker 1: membership across the three unions is for people of those

2643
02:27:29,920 --> 02:27:33,120
Speaker 1: voted on our strikeout vote voted yes. So we're expecting

2644
02:27:33,560 --> 02:27:36,400
Speaker 1: a pretty significant turnout of that entire membership to be

2645
02:27:36,440 --> 02:27:40,320
Speaker 1: on the picket line. UM. So that will there will

2646
02:27:40,400 --> 02:27:42,480
Speaker 1: be UM, you know, those t as who are walking

2647
02:27:42,520 --> 02:27:44,199
Speaker 1: out will be that that will be the first disruption

2648
02:27:44,320 --> 02:27:46,959
Speaker 1: university feels before they feel a research disruption. They will

2649
02:27:47,040 --> 02:27:49,720
Speaker 1: very clearly see the teaching disruption and exams not taking place,

2650
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:53,520
Speaker 1: grades not being entered, UH, sections not being taught across

2651
02:27:53,560 --> 02:27:57,920
Speaker 1: every single campus and UM and that will certainly be

2652
02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:03,960
Speaker 1: UM something that they will UM have to deal with

2653
02:28:04,120 --> 02:28:07,160
Speaker 1: the end and hopefully the size of the disruption in

2654
02:28:07,200 --> 02:28:10,440
Speaker 1: the first few days will convince them to come to

2655
02:28:10,560 --> 02:28:15,040
Speaker 1: the bargaining table in a reasonable way UM, and if not,

2656
02:28:15,200 --> 02:28:21,240
Speaker 1: we are prepared to continue until they do. And the

2657
02:28:21,320 --> 02:28:24,000
Speaker 1: other interesting part about what's gonna happen next week is

2658
02:28:24,040 --> 02:28:27,200
Speaker 1: that this is UM a picket line that is going

2659
02:28:27,280 --> 02:28:31,000
Speaker 1: to be not just including you know, researchers and instructors,

2660
02:28:31,080 --> 02:28:33,120
Speaker 1: but also people that support us. So there's a big

2661
02:28:33,160 --> 02:28:36,840
Speaker 1: conference downtown for a lot of neuroscientists and UM it's

2662
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:39,920
Speaker 1: it's called sf N I can't remember what that stands for, UM,

2663
02:28:40,080 --> 02:28:41,520
Speaker 1: but a lot of them are actually coming to the

2664
02:28:41,560 --> 02:28:45,760
Speaker 1: picket line to support us. I didn't know about that.

2665
02:28:45,959 --> 02:28:49,320
Speaker 1: That's great, Yeah, yeah, it's I think that's pretty exciting.

2666
02:28:49,320 --> 02:28:51,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was in San Diego, but UM,

2667
02:28:51,360 --> 02:28:53,400
Speaker 1: they're gonna be here, and also, you know, vouch for

2668
02:28:53,520 --> 02:28:56,199
Speaker 1: us because you see does like we are the leading

2669
02:28:56,240 --> 02:28:58,480
Speaker 1: research group and we contribute to a lot of the

2670
02:28:58,520 --> 02:29:01,880
Speaker 1: research that are at these meetings. Anyway. UM, there's also

2671
02:29:01,920 --> 02:29:04,400
Speaker 1: going to be it's a child friendly picket line and

2672
02:29:04,560 --> 02:29:07,000
Speaker 1: for people with access needs, we're gonna have UM, you know,

2673
02:29:07,200 --> 02:29:10,240
Speaker 1: virtual picketing and you'll see what that looks like. Um,

2674
02:29:10,640 --> 02:29:13,160
Speaker 1: it's still being developed, but I think that's pretty exciting.

2675
02:29:13,200 --> 02:29:15,800
Speaker 1: As someone, you know, with a disability to myself, it's

2676
02:29:15,840 --> 02:29:19,720
Speaker 1: exciting that other people can contribute to that. Yeah, it's

2677
02:29:19,800 --> 02:29:22,280
Speaker 1: very cool to you guys to do that. It's very cool.

2678
02:29:22,840 --> 02:29:24,920
Speaker 1: How can people help? How can we support you? How

2679
02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:28,480
Speaker 1: can people find you? On the internet? Yeah, So, I

2680
02:29:28,520 --> 02:29:30,360
Speaker 1: think if you want to keep up with the strike news,

2681
02:29:30,480 --> 02:29:32,960
Speaker 1: there's three Twitter accounts, the s r U U a

2682
02:29:33,200 --> 02:29:36,280
Speaker 1: w u W and you a W two week six five.

2683
02:29:36,480 --> 02:29:38,360
Speaker 1: I think they kind of share a lot of sim

2684
02:29:38,440 --> 02:29:40,760
Speaker 1: content sometimes because we're all kind of doing this together.

2685
02:29:40,879 --> 02:29:43,959
Speaker 1: But that's a good place to keep track of the news.

2686
02:29:44,440 --> 02:29:47,440
Speaker 1: I know there is a link to UM. There's a

2687
02:29:47,560 --> 02:29:50,760
Speaker 1: they've set up a Hardship strike fund UM. I don't

2688
02:29:50,800 --> 02:29:53,520
Speaker 1: have that link off top of my head, but if

2689
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:57,600
Speaker 1: you yeah to us later and if you go to

2690
02:29:58,240 --> 02:30:00,400
Speaker 1: fair you see now dot org it have all the

2691
02:30:00,440 --> 02:30:02,959
Speaker 1: information about what's happening, but also those type of links

2692
02:30:03,000 --> 02:30:05,960
Speaker 1: to UM. So if you want some contact, so it's

2693
02:30:05,959 --> 02:30:10,520
Speaker 1: pretty good. Yeah, and then how about YouTube personally? Would

2694
02:30:10,560 --> 02:30:12,400
Speaker 1: you like to share your personal Twitter so or do

2695
02:30:12,400 --> 02:30:17,160
Speaker 1: you just want to stick with the the organizational once. Um,

2696
02:30:18,040 --> 02:30:19,879
Speaker 1: I would love to. I promise, I'm not that fun,

2697
02:30:19,959 --> 02:30:25,240
Speaker 1: but minus Tyler Bell PhD. That's my dad. Yeah, and

2698
02:30:25,360 --> 02:30:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm Alex t Winzel on Twitter. I once this is over,

2699
02:30:28,720 --> 02:30:30,720
Speaker 1: I'll probably go back to tweeting entirely about my work

2700
02:30:30,800 --> 02:30:35,960
Speaker 1: and pictures of busses. Your Twitter, Alex, Yeah, is a

2701
02:30:36,040 --> 02:30:40,320
Speaker 1: high value follow. Thank you. Alex gives live updates about

2702
02:30:40,360 --> 02:30:43,959
Speaker 1: transit and it's exciting. You see a train, It's all good.

2703
02:30:45,800 --> 02:30:48,160
Speaker 1: It pretty like hits at like five year old child.

2704
02:30:48,640 --> 02:30:50,520
Speaker 1: We have pretty much of busses in San Diego. Now

2705
02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:53,640
Speaker 1: what can I say here? Yeah? All right, all right,

2706
02:30:53,760 --> 02:30:55,200
Speaker 1: thank you so much of your time, both of you.

2707
02:30:55,440 --> 02:30:57,560
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Best to luck next week. Maybe

2708
02:30:57,560 --> 02:30:59,800
Speaker 1: I'll come up and bring you, i know, sim super

2709
02:31:00,080 --> 02:31:02,800
Speaker 1: like like an oil can that we can start firing

2710
02:31:02,840 --> 02:31:07,720
Speaker 1: on campus or something. Yeah, let's do it. Have one here,

2711
02:31:07,800 --> 02:31:11,160
Speaker 1: let's do it. I'm down, all right, Yeah, best of

2712
02:31:11,240 --> 02:31:14,680
Speaker 1: black and we'll look forward to hearing what happens. Thank

2713
02:31:14,720 --> 02:31:17,880
Speaker 1: you so much for thanks so much for talking to us. Hello,

2714
02:31:18,040 --> 02:31:20,640
Speaker 1: podcast fans. I know you got to the end of

2715
02:31:20,640 --> 02:31:23,120
Speaker 1: the episode and you were thinking not enough James. Not

2716
02:31:23,240 --> 02:31:27,560
Speaker 1: enough strikes, not enough UCSD. So lucky you. I've been

2717
02:31:27,640 --> 02:31:30,200
Speaker 1: up to since you see San Diego today, and I've

2718
02:31:30,240 --> 02:31:34,440
Speaker 1: recorded with Tyler and Alex at the strike and we

2719
02:31:34,560 --> 02:31:36,720
Speaker 1: got some audio of the strike going on as well.

2720
02:31:37,240 --> 02:31:39,560
Speaker 1: It was really amazing, really incredible to see that many

2721
02:31:39,560 --> 02:31:42,520
Speaker 1: people out Never thought I see that UCSD. So without

2722
02:31:42,560 --> 02:31:45,040
Speaker 1: further Ado here his main view with them all right,

2723
02:31:45,840 --> 02:31:48,480
Speaker 1: So here with dying Alex again this time with more

2724
02:31:48,520 --> 02:31:53,520
Speaker 1: background noise. We're at the strike now. How many people

2725
02:31:53,520 --> 02:31:57,160
Speaker 1: are here? Roughly oh man somewhere, probably around at least

2726
02:31:57,160 --> 02:32:00,240
Speaker 1: a couple of thousand right right now. Definitely a couple

2727
02:32:00,280 --> 02:32:03,040
Speaker 1: of thousand people out here. It's really impressive. Like I

2728
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:05,040
Speaker 1: read do U C s D if you haven't picked

2729
02:32:05,080 --> 02:32:06,480
Speaker 1: that up yet, And like we did not get too

2730
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:09,600
Speaker 1: many people even when like people started hanging new seas

2731
02:32:09,640 --> 02:32:12,960
Speaker 1: around campus. I didn't. I didn't think I'm being so

2732
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:16,240
Speaker 1: I did again. This is genuinely very impressive. And what's

2733
02:32:16,280 --> 02:32:18,840
Speaker 1: been what's been happening? UM? I think things have gone

2734
02:32:19,120 --> 02:32:21,000
Speaker 1: really well so far this since day two as we're

2735
02:32:21,000 --> 02:32:24,280
Speaker 1: recording this, that we've been on strike. UM, there has

2736
02:32:24,360 --> 02:32:26,920
Speaker 1: been some progress at the bargaining table that I've heard, um,

2737
02:32:27,040 --> 02:32:29,040
Speaker 1: but we do know that you see is going to

2738
02:32:29,080 --> 02:32:30,720
Speaker 1: try to drag this out. They think that they can

2739
02:32:30,760 --> 02:32:33,280
Speaker 1: outlast our momentum. But so far as you can really

2740
02:32:33,280 --> 02:32:34,720
Speaker 1: hear from the noise behind us and see all the

2741
02:32:34,800 --> 02:32:38,080
Speaker 1: different you know, uh, thousands of people converging from all

2742
02:32:38,080 --> 02:32:40,160
Speaker 1: the pict locations across campus that they've been at since

2743
02:32:40,200 --> 02:32:42,400
Speaker 1: eight in the morning, I think our energy is going strong.

2744
02:32:42,400 --> 02:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Where do you think, Tyler? Yeah, so I think the

2745
02:32:44,920 --> 02:32:47,520
Speaker 1: energy is really strong here today. Uh. The UC did

2746
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:49,720
Speaker 1: not expect us to come on day two, which we

2747
02:32:49,800 --> 02:32:52,879
Speaker 1: know because at bargaining they canceled our meetings for today, um,

2748
02:32:52,879 --> 02:32:56,039
Speaker 1: because they didn't expect to show up. But somehow magically

2749
02:32:56,120 --> 02:32:59,360
Speaker 1: a meeting immerged around two o'clock today, and it maybe

2750
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:01,520
Speaker 1: do to the fact that two thousand people are out here.

2751
02:33:01,600 --> 02:33:04,720
Speaker 1: Pretty piste, uh and one a fair contract. But yeah,

2752
02:33:04,720 --> 02:33:07,120
Speaker 1: I think the momentum it's pretty high. We actually did

2753
02:33:07,160 --> 02:33:10,320
Speaker 1: more disruption today, going directly talking to the deans and

2754
02:33:10,360 --> 02:33:12,600
Speaker 1: the faculty and screaming in their offices as they sat

2755
02:33:12,640 --> 02:33:15,360
Speaker 1: really comfy. But I'll say, yeah, first floor seminars didn't

2756
02:33:15,360 --> 02:33:18,440
Speaker 1: go well today. I'll put it that way, all right,

2757
02:33:19,160 --> 02:33:21,280
Speaker 1: there was something that I know the university about like

2758
02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:27,280
Speaker 1: intimidation and un friend lavorite practices, and you come too, Yeah,

2759
02:33:27,360 --> 02:33:31,000
Speaker 1: I can talk to generalities. UM there's uh well, the

2760
02:33:31,080 --> 02:33:33,000
Speaker 1: labor law that governs us is is is a little

2761
02:33:33,000 --> 02:33:37,000
Speaker 1: bit complicated because some of us also receive uh course

2762
02:33:37,080 --> 02:33:39,439
Speaker 1: credit for the work that we do that is protected

2763
02:33:39,560 --> 02:33:42,680
Speaker 1: under activity that protects our strike activity, which is a

2764
02:33:42,760 --> 02:33:44,959
Speaker 1: little bit of an anti labor practice in and of itself.

2765
02:33:45,080 --> 02:33:46,600
Speaker 1: There's no reason I have to sign up for twelve

2766
02:33:46,680 --> 02:33:49,160
Speaker 1: credits of just existing doing work. That doesn't make any

2767
02:33:49,200 --> 02:33:52,600
Speaker 1: particular sense, but it's the way the inversity run things. So, UM,

2768
02:33:52,680 --> 02:33:54,520
Speaker 1: there has been some emails that are sent out that

2769
02:33:54,600 --> 02:33:58,880
Speaker 1: are are questionable legal correctness as to whether um we

2770
02:33:59,000 --> 02:34:01,040
Speaker 1: can be hurt in terms of our academic standing for

2771
02:34:01,160 --> 02:34:04,000
Speaker 1: participating on the strike. That is definitely not true, UM

2772
02:34:04,280 --> 02:34:07,160
Speaker 1: is if we are if the is activity that's governed

2773
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:10,280
Speaker 1: under the what our union is representing us for UM.

2774
02:34:10,320 --> 02:34:12,000
Speaker 1: So we know we've had some issues with that. Tyler,

2775
02:34:12,040 --> 02:34:14,119
Speaker 1: I guess you could talk about maybe some other examples

2776
02:34:14,160 --> 02:34:17,640
Speaker 1: that have come out. It's on the postox side. Right now,

2777
02:34:17,760 --> 02:34:20,360
Speaker 1: the university has released like an f a Q of

2778
02:34:20,480 --> 02:34:23,360
Speaker 1: sorts in an email where it says, oh, well, you'll

2779
02:34:23,360 --> 02:34:26,040
Speaker 1: have to tell the niage that your postox aren't doing

2780
02:34:26,120 --> 02:34:28,039
Speaker 1: research and that they are funding needs to get pulled.

2781
02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:30,240
Speaker 1: But that's kind of a joke. There's no like reporting

2782
02:34:30,280 --> 02:34:33,000
Speaker 1: mechanism for that. It's more like a stipend for a

2783
02:34:33,080 --> 02:34:36,120
Speaker 1: living um. So we're telling people just to stay strong

2784
02:34:36,320 --> 02:34:38,800
Speaker 1: and uh, people see you kind of pass like the

2785
02:34:38,879 --> 02:34:40,920
Speaker 1: threats that they're making, and a lot of faculty see

2786
02:34:40,920 --> 02:34:43,959
Speaker 1: through it too. Okay, we just intercepted you. When you're

2787
02:34:43,959 --> 02:34:47,160
Speaker 1: going somewhere else, you would you like to introduce yourself?

2788
02:34:47,400 --> 02:34:51,000
Speaker 1: All right? So them post doc um, I'm pretty new

2789
02:34:51,720 --> 02:34:53,800
Speaker 1: in your c s C. I joined in April, and

2790
02:34:53,920 --> 02:34:56,920
Speaker 1: I came here having already done another post doc and

2791
02:34:57,000 --> 02:34:59,760
Speaker 1: a PhD in Europe. I joined the union on this

2792
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:06,279
Speaker 1: instantly when I came here, since i've I was basically horrified,

2793
02:35:06,879 --> 02:35:08,480
Speaker 1: for lack of a better way to put it, so,

2794
02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:11,600
Speaker 1: I studied in the EU for ten years and my

2795
02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:15,080
Speaker 1: experience of academia is what I experienced there, which was

2796
02:35:16,840 --> 02:35:20,760
Speaker 1: decent working conditions, being able to save money, not having

2797
02:35:20,800 --> 02:35:23,080
Speaker 1: to spend fifty of your salary on ransom. When I

2798
02:35:23,120 --> 02:35:28,240
Speaker 1: came here, and experienced post stock life. I couldn't believe it.

2799
02:35:28,400 --> 02:35:30,120
Speaker 1: So I believe. I met Tyler when I came here

2800
02:35:30,160 --> 02:35:32,600
Speaker 1: for the first time and we did this orientation that

2801
02:35:32,840 --> 02:35:37,400
Speaker 1: was awesome and awesome horrifying at the same time. Sorry,

2802
02:35:37,640 --> 02:35:40,200
Speaker 1: it was awesome to meet you because I realized it

2803
02:35:40,360 --> 02:35:42,320
Speaker 1: was then that I learned how a labor union worked.

2804
02:35:42,560 --> 02:35:45,480
Speaker 1: My knowledge of labor unions was minimal up until the

2805
02:35:45,480 --> 02:35:47,640
Speaker 1: point that I moved here, so minimal that I didn't

2806
02:35:47,640 --> 02:35:50,120
Speaker 1: even know what labor unions in the EU functioned like

2807
02:35:50,400 --> 02:35:52,640
Speaker 1: until I came here and realized, Oh my god, we

2808
02:35:52,720 --> 02:35:55,440
Speaker 1: are actually lucky to have a union that supports postdocs,

2809
02:35:55,520 --> 02:35:57,720
Speaker 1: and this is not the case in a lot of

2810
02:35:57,760 --> 02:36:00,720
Speaker 1: places in the US. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And so

2811
02:36:00,840 --> 02:36:04,880
Speaker 1: how has the strike action gone so far? Expect it's

2812
02:36:04,879 --> 02:36:08,080
Speaker 1: been crazy. We've been planning this for so long. It's

2813
02:36:08,080 --> 02:36:10,680
Speaker 1: a bit surreal to be part of it. I think

2814
02:36:10,680 --> 02:36:14,600
Speaker 1: it's been going great. It's been very energizing, and it's

2815
02:36:14,640 --> 02:36:16,879
Speaker 1: been intense. Yeah, it's hard, right, none of us really

2816
02:36:16,920 --> 02:36:19,119
Speaker 1: want to be out here and strike, and the fact

2817
02:36:19,240 --> 02:36:22,680
Speaker 1: that so many people are putting work on hold just

2818
02:36:23,240 --> 02:36:26,400
Speaker 1: speaks to the intensity and seriousness of the problem and

2819
02:36:26,480 --> 02:36:29,360
Speaker 1: what we're striking for. Ye yeah, yeah, I think that's

2820
02:36:29,440 --> 02:36:31,280
Speaker 1: very true. It's really impressive. How many people here I

2821
02:36:31,320 --> 02:36:38,400
Speaker 1: can't over Yeah some time. Yeah, very impressive. So let's see. Look,

2822
02:36:38,560 --> 02:36:40,360
Speaker 1: do you guys know how the bargaining has gone and

2823
02:36:40,480 --> 02:36:44,360
Speaker 1: what we can expect from here. Well, what we would

2824
02:36:44,440 --> 02:36:46,280
Speaker 1: like would be for the u SEE to meet us

2825
02:36:46,360 --> 02:36:49,120
Speaker 1: at the bargaining table and give us a fair contract.

2826
02:36:49,600 --> 02:36:55,520
Speaker 1: But um repeating that ad infinite um bobby with whole

2827
02:36:55,640 --> 02:36:58,480
Speaker 1: labors is the plan thus far. But what's actually been

2828
02:36:58,560 --> 02:37:02,520
Speaker 1: happening is um U SEE just hasn't been paying fair

2829
02:37:02,959 --> 02:37:08,720
Speaker 1: as you know. Yeah, it's it's been. It's been infuriating

2830
02:37:08,800 --> 02:37:12,480
Speaker 1: for me. It makes me very angry. It's very serree

2831
02:37:12,480 --> 02:37:14,400
Speaker 1: and especially I think if you're used to a sort

2832
02:37:14,400 --> 02:37:18,200
Speaker 1: of more sane labor context, to see them just make

2833
02:37:18,240 --> 02:37:21,200
Speaker 1: a gas lighting and righting and doing what I'm fraise

2834
02:37:21,240 --> 02:37:25,959
Speaker 1: for it is illegal stuff. It's disrespectful, is what I feel. Yeah,

2835
02:37:26,920 --> 02:37:30,640
Speaker 1: maybe illustrates sort of what they see post toxographs in

2836
02:37:31,040 --> 02:37:35,720
Speaker 1: economic gens. Yeah, as a workforce whose rights are not

2837
02:37:35,879 --> 02:37:37,360
Speaker 1: to be value to do a bulk of the work.

2838
02:37:37,440 --> 02:37:40,360
Speaker 1: It's it's very disrespectful, you know, I think it certainly

2839
02:37:40,400 --> 02:37:43,280
Speaker 1: speaks to uh. Like I said earlier, they're trying to

2840
02:37:43,320 --> 02:37:45,440
Speaker 1: outlast us, and they think that we will reach a

2841
02:37:45,480 --> 02:37:47,320
Speaker 1: certain point where we we no longer feel like we

2842
02:37:47,440 --> 02:37:49,440
Speaker 1: can avoid our work, that we can stay out here.

2843
02:37:49,760 --> 02:37:52,560
Speaker 1: And I think you would think that if that's their strategy,

2844
02:37:52,680 --> 02:37:55,400
Speaker 1: would realize that we are in a point of desperation,

2845
02:37:55,480 --> 02:37:58,320
Speaker 1: We are in a point of procarity, um, where we

2846
02:37:58,520 --> 02:38:03,439
Speaker 1: really need wages and compensation and and and workplace protections

2847
02:38:03,520 --> 02:38:05,720
Speaker 1: that meet the current economic situation that we live in,

2848
02:38:05,760 --> 02:38:07,959
Speaker 1: because right now that's not what we have, and currently

2849
02:38:08,000 --> 02:38:09,760
Speaker 1: at the bargaining table, they're kind of putting a lot

2850
02:38:09,800 --> 02:38:12,200
Speaker 1: of our labor reps and to like, uh, something that

2851
02:38:12,200 --> 02:38:15,119
Speaker 1: looks like like jaw like jig saw like type trap

2852
02:38:15,240 --> 02:38:18,119
Speaker 1: rooms where they have only for lesson hiding and no windows,

2853
02:38:18,200 --> 02:38:20,240
Speaker 1: and then them not knowing whether or not they have

2854
02:38:20,360 --> 02:38:21,960
Speaker 1: to get a flight back because they're not going to

2855
02:38:22,040 --> 02:38:24,040
Speaker 1: meet with them that day. UM, them saying that they

2856
02:38:24,080 --> 02:38:25,880
Speaker 1: haven't reserved rooms, even though that you know, they have

2857
02:38:25,959 --> 02:38:28,400
Speaker 1: so much power. Who's who's taking up a room from them?

2858
02:38:28,879 --> 02:38:30,560
Speaker 1: Um to meet with them and actually come up with

2859
02:38:30,680 --> 02:38:33,960
Speaker 1: some proposals. I got an update that admin wasn't bargaining

2860
02:38:34,040 --> 02:38:36,880
Speaker 1: because they couldn't reserve a room. What does that mean

2861
02:38:36,959 --> 02:38:39,160
Speaker 1: there's forty eight thousand people on strike, the entire system

2862
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:42,480
Speaker 1: isn't working. We mean, it's your rooms also, you own

2863
02:38:42,560 --> 02:38:45,320
Speaker 1: the rooms. I'm I was, I bet that was a

2864
02:38:45,400 --> 02:38:47,720
Speaker 1: fascinating update. I'm sorry, I just had to mention something

2865
02:38:47,760 --> 02:38:49,560
Speaker 1: about that. So that's just all we have to know

2866
02:38:49,720 --> 02:38:52,000
Speaker 1: right now is that they keep canceling meetings adding meetings.

2867
02:38:52,120 --> 02:38:53,560
Speaker 1: They're kind of just waiting us out and see how

2868
02:38:53,600 --> 02:38:55,200
Speaker 1: long we'll actually be on strike and whether or not

2869
02:38:55,720 --> 02:38:57,760
Speaker 1: we actually care about our contracts, which I think you

2870
02:38:57,879 --> 02:38:59,320
Speaker 1: being here today, you see how many people are out

2871
02:38:59,320 --> 02:39:00,879
Speaker 1: and no one's going to lead EVE this picket line

2872
02:39:01,160 --> 02:39:04,760
Speaker 1: throughout the week. So yeah, yeah, I think that's basically it.

2873
02:39:04,840 --> 02:39:06,320
Speaker 1: People aren't going to leave the picket line, and the

2874
02:39:06,440 --> 02:39:10,320
Speaker 1: energy is awesome because people are fed up. People are

2875
02:39:10,440 --> 02:39:13,000
Speaker 1: fed up, people are fed up being poor and homeless,

2876
02:39:13,040 --> 02:39:15,200
Speaker 1: and this is not why we come to grad school, right.

2877
02:39:15,280 --> 02:39:17,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I was very fortunate to have a good

2878
02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:19,879
Speaker 1: grad school experience and that's why I'm still in academia.

2879
02:39:19,920 --> 02:39:21,760
Speaker 1: But the majority of the people who come to the

2880
02:39:21,840 --> 02:39:25,720
Speaker 1: university spending savings. I know people with student loans back

2881
02:39:25,760 --> 02:39:28,360
Speaker 1: from India who are here to do a master's and

2882
02:39:29,040 --> 02:39:33,120
Speaker 1: are teeing doing research, killing themselves because they had a dream.

2883
02:39:33,400 --> 02:39:37,240
Speaker 1: They literally moved across the world to come here following

2884
02:39:37,280 --> 02:39:39,280
Speaker 1: a dream and our ending up being broken. That's that's

2885
02:39:39,320 --> 02:39:42,240
Speaker 1: heartbreaking from a university as big as this. Nobody deserves

2886
02:39:43,480 --> 02:39:46,360
Speaker 1: to be treated this way, and I think everybody here

2887
02:39:46,520 --> 02:39:48,960
Speaker 1: is feeling it. If you go to fair you see

2888
02:39:49,040 --> 02:39:51,760
Speaker 1: now dot org there's a link to a strike fund

2889
02:39:51,840 --> 02:39:54,080
Speaker 1: right now, a hardship fund, and people can donate to

2890
02:39:54,160 --> 02:39:57,280
Speaker 1: that any amount they want to. And there's also we're

2891
02:39:57,320 --> 02:40:00,360
Speaker 1: taking donations to actually feed people out here. So people

2892
02:40:00,360 --> 02:40:02,520
Speaker 1: have questions about that, they can just email the links

2893
02:40:02,600 --> 02:40:07,560
Speaker 1: at that website. UM. Yeah, can people to like would

2894
02:40:07,560 --> 02:40:10,160
Speaker 1: you like? People? People are very very welcome to show

2895
02:40:10,200 --> 02:40:12,400
Speaker 1: up to the picket line to come help. All help

2896
02:40:12,520 --> 02:40:15,000
Speaker 1: is appreciated. You want to join us, you want to chant,

2897
02:40:15,080 --> 02:40:17,320
Speaker 1: you want to bring supplies, we'll be there. This is

2898
02:40:17,360 --> 02:40:20,400
Speaker 1: across all ten you see campuses, if you're near the

2899
02:40:20,440 --> 02:40:22,840
Speaker 1: picket line, if you want to show support and solidarity,

2900
02:40:22,959 --> 02:40:25,920
Speaker 1: come join us. Yeah, the virtual picketing is still happening,

2901
02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:27,959
Speaker 1: and what they've been actually doing is making sure people

2902
02:40:28,040 --> 02:40:30,440
Speaker 1: get here and nowhere to go, since the picketing is

2903
02:40:30,520 --> 02:40:33,440
Speaker 1: so transient, like we're literally moving building to building as

2904
02:40:33,520 --> 02:40:36,040
Speaker 1: it's needed, and they're doing the calls for us and

2905
02:40:36,280 --> 02:40:38,760
Speaker 1: directing us, so which is a wild thing. But also

2906
02:40:38,959 --> 02:40:41,520
Speaker 1: the other thing is just people retweeting everything that we post,

2907
02:40:41,920 --> 02:40:43,920
Speaker 1: making sure that no one can silence us, because that's

2908
02:40:43,959 --> 02:40:45,800
Speaker 1: what you see. Once. Thank you so much for coming,

2909
02:40:45,879 --> 02:40:48,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for giving us this platform. The awareness is really

2910
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:50,160
Speaker 1: critical to make sure that you see can't ignore us.

2911
02:40:50,240 --> 02:41:07,680
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for coming. It's the podcast,

2912
02:41:07,879 --> 02:41:10,160
Speaker 1: it's it could happen here. It is about something that

2913
02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:15,959
Speaker 1: could happen here very specifically. Um, yeah, I'm I'm Christopher Wong.

2914
02:41:16,360 --> 02:41:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm here with James Stout and Garrison Davis. Hello, Hello,

2915
02:41:19,280 --> 02:41:22,600
Speaker 1: do you both hello? We all joined the SIMP call

2916
02:41:22,800 --> 02:41:25,480
Speaker 1: that that did happen here, and that did show everybody

2917
02:41:25,640 --> 02:41:27,840
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, so that's the thing that that did

2918
02:41:27,920 --> 02:41:29,320
Speaker 1: happen here, and now we're gonna talk abou something that

2919
02:41:29,400 --> 02:41:34,640
Speaker 1: could happen here, and that specific thing is uh a

2920
02:41:34,760 --> 02:41:37,720
Speaker 1: call by two Harvard academics to hire five hundred thousand

2921
02:41:37,879 --> 02:41:43,280
Speaker 1: more cops. Nope, so okay, they're like, I don't I

2922
02:41:43,280 --> 02:41:44,800
Speaker 1: don't know when this is going to go up. But

2923
02:41:45,600 --> 02:41:48,040
Speaker 1: sometime in the past that there was a piece that

2924
02:41:48,080 --> 02:41:50,920
Speaker 1: went viral by civil rights lawyer and anti prison activist

2925
02:41:50,959 --> 02:41:53,920
Speaker 1: turned media critic Alec karaka Tanis about a pair of

2926
02:41:53,920 --> 02:41:56,600
Speaker 1: Harvard academics who wrote this article calling for five thousand

2927
02:41:56,640 --> 02:42:00,520
Speaker 1: more cops. And this is okay, Like the fact that

2928
02:42:00,600 --> 02:42:03,440
Speaker 1: we have academics writing position papers basically that are calling

2929
02:42:03,480 --> 02:42:06,560
Speaker 1: for five thousand more cops is terrifying in and of itself.

2930
02:42:07,200 --> 02:42:12,120
Speaker 1: But but but crime is that a record high You're

2931
02:42:12,240 --> 02:42:15,840
Speaker 1: about to see ship. You're about to see You're about

2932
02:42:15,879 --> 02:42:17,400
Speaker 1: to see and hear ship that is going to make

2933
02:42:17,480 --> 02:42:20,920
Speaker 1: your fucking ears bleed because it's not ship. Like okay,

2934
02:42:21,000 --> 02:42:24,080
Speaker 1: normally these are Harvard academics, right, So you're assuming these

2935
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:26,120
Speaker 1: are like right wing nats at Google's right or like

2936
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:28,960
Speaker 1: their equivalent in in in the sort of like you

2937
02:42:29,040 --> 02:42:32,760
Speaker 1: know these are not. This was written by a socialist.

2938
02:42:33,440 --> 02:42:36,200
Speaker 1: And when I say a socialist right like, I don't

2939
02:42:36,240 --> 02:42:37,520
Speaker 1: mean a sort of like one of the sort of

2940
02:42:37,640 --> 02:42:41,160
Speaker 1: like terminally online desperate cranks trying to hold together like

2941
02:42:41,200 --> 02:42:44,160
Speaker 1: a maoist micro sect. I'm talking about people who are

2942
02:42:44,320 --> 02:42:48,720
Speaker 1: incredibly well connected inside the mainstream socialist left. So the

2943
02:42:48,959 --> 02:42:51,800
Speaker 1: authors of this call for five hundred thousand more cops

2944
02:42:52,200 --> 02:42:54,960
Speaker 1: are Christopher Lewis, who is a Harvard law professor who

2945
02:42:55,000 --> 02:42:58,920
Speaker 1: makes me embarrassed to have my own name, and more

2946
02:42:59,040 --> 02:43:03,320
Speaker 1: interestingly of a sociology professor, auditor usumy So who is

2947
02:43:03,360 --> 02:43:07,040
Speaker 1: auditor Usumi um. He is on the board. He's on

2948
02:43:07,080 --> 02:43:11,199
Speaker 1: the editorial board of Catalyst, which is a Marxist man. Okay,

2949
02:43:11,240 --> 02:43:14,000
Speaker 1: do you do you have you two know what Catalyst is? Yeah,

2950
02:43:15,480 --> 02:43:18,840
Speaker 1: besides the sequel to the Mirror original game and l

2951
02:43:18,879 --> 02:43:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, okay, so they're they're a a Marxist magazine.

2952
02:43:22,680 --> 02:43:25,080
Speaker 1: There supposed to be a more sort of theoretical Marxist

2953
02:43:25,320 --> 02:43:28,080
Speaker 1: like magazine founded by a guy named vi Vic Chibber,

2954
02:43:28,200 --> 02:43:31,320
Speaker 1: who's a pretty influential, sort of like soaked Marxist who

2955
02:43:31,360 --> 02:43:34,240
Speaker 1: could be found literally in any any of the last

2956
02:43:34,320 --> 02:43:36,760
Speaker 1: like five decades, you can find him yelling about the

2957
02:43:36,840 --> 02:43:39,680
Speaker 1: cultural turn in academia and calling for a return of

2958
02:43:39,760 --> 02:43:49,800
Speaker 1: political economy. Yes, yes, about this for decades longer. I

2959
02:43:49,879 --> 02:43:51,680
Speaker 1: think he's been yelling about this for longer than I've

2960
02:43:51,720 --> 02:43:56,000
Speaker 1: been alive. God, Like, that's how long has been going on.

2961
02:43:56,480 --> 02:43:59,600
Speaker 1: People have definitely been like fetching about the cultural turn

2962
02:43:59,680 --> 02:44:02,039
Speaker 1: for long than any of us have been alive. Yeah,

2963
02:44:02,200 --> 02:44:06,520
Speaker 1: and they've been wrong for that entire time. And him

2964
02:44:06,720 --> 02:44:08,600
Speaker 1: is like one of the guys who trained us to

2965
02:44:08,680 --> 02:44:12,080
Speaker 1: me in the first place. Now catalysts other major founder

2966
02:44:12,720 --> 02:44:15,680
Speaker 1: um is much more famous, and that's someone you probably

2967
02:44:15,760 --> 02:44:20,400
Speaker 1: have heard of, who is one bosh Car Sunkara, who

2968
02:44:20,600 --> 02:44:23,000
Speaker 1: is the current President of the Nation and also the

2969
02:44:23,040 --> 02:44:26,360
Speaker 1: founder of jocobin where and this is where it gets

2970
02:44:26,400 --> 02:44:30,360
Speaker 1: fun us to me also on the editorial board of Jocobin.

2971
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:34,360
Speaker 1: This is the guy caring for five hundred that was

2972
02:44:34,400 --> 02:44:37,199
Speaker 1: in More Cops. Right. This isn't coming from the usable

2973
02:44:37,240 --> 02:44:39,959
Speaker 1: sort of like rabid reactionaries. This is coming from people

2974
02:44:39,959 --> 02:44:45,040
Speaker 1: who have serious credentials in the mainstream socialists left and Okay,

2975
02:44:45,360 --> 02:44:49,320
Speaker 1: so all right, I want to talk about what's actually

2976
02:44:49,400 --> 02:44:52,840
Speaker 1: in the paper. And the first thing I need everyone

2977
02:44:52,879 --> 02:44:54,760
Speaker 1: to understand about this from the get go is that

2978
02:44:54,879 --> 02:44:57,360
Speaker 1: this is maybe the worst paper I've ever read. Like

2979
02:44:57,800 --> 02:45:00,080
Speaker 1: if I had tried to turn this paper in to

2980
02:45:00,240 --> 02:45:04,160
Speaker 1: my like freshman under like into like an undergrad class,

2981
02:45:04,240 --> 02:45:06,680
Speaker 1: I would have failed, Like when when when I was

2982
02:45:06,760 --> 02:45:08,520
Speaker 1: in my freshman year in college, I had to read

2983
02:45:08,560 --> 02:45:12,160
Speaker 1: Biblical analysis written by a freshman Ted Cruise supporter who

2984
02:45:12,280 --> 02:45:14,320
Speaker 1: was arguing that there was a problem in the Bible

2985
02:45:14,400 --> 02:45:16,640
Speaker 1: where there was no way for God to talk to people.

2986
02:45:18,000 --> 02:45:22,480
Speaker 1: This is worse than that and the Koran. It's like,

2987
02:45:23,200 --> 02:45:26,800
Speaker 1: how is how how is that worth? Chris? Okay, so

2988
02:45:27,280 --> 02:45:30,080
Speaker 1: let's let's let's just start off right. I'm gonna I'm

2989
02:45:30,080 --> 02:45:32,199
Speaker 1: gonna start off with a random part in the middle,

2990
02:45:32,280 --> 02:45:37,240
Speaker 1: so you understand how just mind numbingly atrocious this is okay,

2991
02:45:37,280 --> 02:45:38,920
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna read this. This is an

2992
02:45:39,000 --> 02:45:41,600
Speaker 1: article called, and I'm not kidding about the title of

2993
02:45:41,680 --> 02:45:48,160
Speaker 1: this quote, the Injustice of under policing in America. Uh yeah,

2994
02:45:48,560 --> 02:45:56,160
Speaker 1: so we're starting we're turning off right, so yeah, so

2995
02:45:56,240 --> 02:45:59,480
Speaker 1: so so before we get into the actual main argument,

2996
02:45:59,520 --> 02:46:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read this quote, which is right. Even

2997
02:46:04,040 --> 02:46:07,400
Speaker 1: if our answers prove unsound, we hope that the combination

2998
02:46:07,480 --> 02:46:12,040
Speaker 1: of empirical social science and analytic moral and political philosophy

2999
02:46:12,160 --> 02:46:15,879
Speaker 1: we can we contribute can help eliminate what alternative answers

3000
02:46:15,879 --> 02:46:19,320
Speaker 1: to those questions might have to look like. To be sound, which,

3001
02:46:19,480 --> 02:46:24,320
Speaker 1: first off, terrible scism. This is why I would prefer

3002
02:46:24,400 --> 02:46:27,000
Speaker 1: the immortal science of markis Latinism. This is awful, like said,

3003
02:46:27,879 --> 02:46:30,119
Speaker 1: is writing terrible? Said it back to an editor, give

3004
02:46:30,160 --> 02:46:32,400
Speaker 1: them a decade, they'll come back with it. Second off,

3005
02:46:32,840 --> 02:46:38,240
Speaker 1: I literally cannot imagine two disciplines I would like rather

3006
02:46:38,440 --> 02:46:41,640
Speaker 1: less apply to the problem of mass incarceration than those

3007
02:46:42,360 --> 02:46:45,280
Speaker 1: like these authors have dared ask the question, what if

3008
02:46:45,320 --> 02:46:49,000
Speaker 1: we combined the bone rattling stupidity of analytic philosophy with

3009
02:46:49,080 --> 02:46:52,520
Speaker 1: the sociologist complete inability to do statistics? And the answer

3010
02:46:52,760 --> 02:46:56,680
Speaker 1: is this? And what I say, complete inability to do statistics? Right,

3011
02:46:56,680 --> 02:47:00,480
Speaker 1: I need people to understand how bad this article is,

3012
02:47:00,959 --> 02:47:04,520
Speaker 1: right like I I like, I like viscerally needs you

3013
02:47:04,680 --> 02:47:08,440
Speaker 1: to understand. So here, here is here, Here is a quote.

3014
02:47:09,000 --> 02:47:12,599
Speaker 1: Here's another section of this article. But while firearm availability,

3015
02:47:12,920 --> 02:47:15,520
Speaker 1: no doubt has some impact on the level of violence,

3016
02:47:15,680 --> 02:47:18,240
Speaker 1: we think the effect is likely to be small. A

3017
02:47:18,400 --> 02:47:21,080
Speaker 1: large effect would be difficult to square with other patterns

3018
02:47:21,120 --> 02:47:25,760
Speaker 1: across place, persons, and time. Consider, for example, that while

3019
02:47:25,800 --> 02:47:28,200
Speaker 1: the United States has ten times as many guns as

3020
02:47:28,240 --> 02:47:31,120
Speaker 1: El Salvador, the homicide rate there is roughly ten times

3021
02:47:31,200 --> 02:47:35,280
Speaker 1: higher than it is here. Now stats, nowhere's think for

3022
02:47:35,400 --> 02:47:39,520
Speaker 1: a second about what they just compared. Right, The United

3023
02:47:39,600 --> 02:47:44,280
Speaker 1: States has ten times as many guns. The homicide rate

3024
02:47:45,080 --> 02:47:49,959
Speaker 1: in El Salvador as ten times higher. Right, Yeah, yeah,

3025
02:47:49,959 --> 02:47:52,240
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, what what does the US have more

3026
02:47:52,320 --> 02:47:57,080
Speaker 1: of than El Salvador? No, no, we have more guns,

3027
02:47:57,120 --> 02:48:02,640
Speaker 1: but we also have fifty times the population. The million

3028
02:48:02,680 --> 02:48:05,480
Speaker 1: people of Salvador is six point five million people, which

3029
02:48:05,560 --> 02:48:07,840
Speaker 1: means again if if you're looking at this in terms

3030
02:48:07,879 --> 02:48:12,080
Speaker 1: of guns per capita, right, A salpits guns per capita

3031
02:48:12,160 --> 02:48:16,280
Speaker 1: is actually five times higher than ours. Wow, that's quite impressive. Yeah,

3032
02:48:16,680 --> 02:48:20,840
Speaker 1: and financial perspective, because we have a little guns. Yeah. Right,

3033
02:48:20,879 --> 02:48:25,160
Speaker 1: and you know, okay, again, if you're if you're gonna

3034
02:48:25,200 --> 02:48:29,640
Speaker 1: do basic statistics, right, you would think that these professors

3035
02:48:29,800 --> 02:48:33,400
Speaker 1: at Harvard University would know the difference between a rate

3036
02:48:33,520 --> 02:48:36,119
Speaker 1: of gun ownership and the pure owner of ship of guns.

3037
02:48:36,480 --> 02:48:39,880
Speaker 1: They do not. They do not, do they not? Have

3038
02:48:40,040 --> 02:48:43,920
Speaker 1: they decided that they're going to pretend they don't. I don't. Okay,

3039
02:48:44,080 --> 02:48:46,120
Speaker 1: here's the thing going into this, right, I assume this

3040
02:48:46,240 --> 02:48:47,880
Speaker 1: was just sort of pure hackshit, and I think a

3041
02:48:47,959 --> 02:48:50,600
Speaker 1: lot of it is. I think they also are genuinely

3042
02:48:50,720 --> 02:48:55,520
Speaker 1: this dumb like genuine I I it's it's really incredible,

3043
02:48:55,640 --> 02:48:58,680
Speaker 1: like I mean again, like the thing like like, the

3044
02:48:58,800 --> 02:49:02,360
Speaker 1: thing they've actually demonstrate with their own numbers is precisely

3045
02:49:02,360 --> 02:49:04,480
Speaker 1: the opposite of what they're arguing. The thing they've demonstrated

3046
02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:06,440
Speaker 1: with the numbers they have given us is that there

3047
02:49:06,480 --> 02:49:10,760
Speaker 1: is a correlation between gun ownership rates and the homicide rate, right,

3048
02:49:10,959 --> 02:49:14,360
Speaker 1: Like they're trying to there. This entire section is about

3049
02:49:14,640 --> 02:49:16,840
Speaker 1: proving that they're that they that the number of guns

3050
02:49:16,920 --> 02:49:19,280
Speaker 1: doesn't like that, this isn't even like this isn't me

3051
02:49:19,680 --> 02:49:21,480
Speaker 1: like like I don't like this is not like me

3052
02:49:21,640 --> 02:49:24,080
Speaker 1: yelling about gun control or whatever. Like this is just

3053
02:49:24,200 --> 02:49:26,840
Speaker 1: to get you to understand the level of statistics these

3054
02:49:26,879 --> 02:49:28,600
Speaker 1: people are on. And also I should point this album.

3055
02:49:28,920 --> 02:49:31,520
Speaker 1: I tracked down their citation because I wanted to make

3056
02:49:31,560 --> 02:49:34,320
Speaker 1: sure I didn't I wasn't misunderstanding their arguments, right, So

3057
02:49:34,480 --> 02:49:36,880
Speaker 1: I tracked down their citation on these numbers, and I

3058
02:49:36,959 --> 02:49:39,160
Speaker 1: went to the paper they cited, and the thing they

3059
02:49:39,240 --> 02:49:42,680
Speaker 1: cited does not have a gun ownership numbers for El Salvador.

3060
02:49:43,320 --> 02:49:45,160
Speaker 1: So I have no idea where they getting any of

3061
02:49:45,160 --> 02:49:47,280
Speaker 1: these numbers they apparently they quite possibly have pulled this

3062
02:49:47,360 --> 02:49:50,920
Speaker 1: out of their ass completely because apparently apparently nobody checked

3063
02:49:50,959 --> 02:49:54,080
Speaker 1: if their citations actually contain the things that they're supposed to.

3064
02:49:55,040 --> 02:49:56,960
Speaker 1: This is what I wanted to talk about. There is

3065
02:49:57,000 --> 02:49:59,560
Speaker 1: a thing that happens when you get tanya or you

3066
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:02,160
Speaker 1: become professor at the very established university, and that thing

3067
02:50:02,280 --> 02:50:05,560
Speaker 1: is you just say shit and people trust you. Like

3068
02:50:05,680 --> 02:50:09,000
Speaker 1: we've seen this time and again in the academy, right that,

3069
02:50:09,200 --> 02:50:12,280
Speaker 1: like peer review is not serving its functioned because like

3070
02:50:12,360 --> 02:50:16,320
Speaker 1: the status hierarchy of people in academia is more important

3071
02:50:16,400 --> 02:50:20,120
Speaker 1: to both the peer reviewers and the people doing the

3072
02:50:20,240 --> 02:50:23,640
Speaker 1: writing than the actual process of peer review. Yeah, like

3073
02:50:24,920 --> 02:50:29,680
Speaker 1: their citations are this is an interesting Uh, this is

3074
02:50:29,959 --> 02:50:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't know that they they've made the capital letters larger.

3075
02:50:33,560 --> 02:50:35,920
Speaker 1: They used a small arms survey. I guess for that.

3076
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:39,400
Speaker 1: Obviously it doesn't it doesn't. It does show it doesn't

3077
02:50:39,440 --> 02:50:44,600
Speaker 1: have those numbers. It's amazing. Okay, So you know we've

3078
02:50:44,680 --> 02:50:47,560
Speaker 1: we've we've established that these people are absolute hacks whose

3079
02:50:47,600 --> 02:50:49,760
Speaker 1: word would have gotten be failed out of an undergrad course.

3080
02:50:49,800 --> 02:50:52,760
Speaker 1: So to be fair, maybe it's actually it's it's technically

3081
02:50:52,800 --> 02:50:55,240
Speaker 1: possible the University of Chicago just holds its students to

3082
02:50:55,280 --> 02:50:57,560
Speaker 1: more riduous standards than Harvard or M I. T. Whose

3083
02:50:57,640 --> 02:51:01,120
Speaker 1: journal published this does their intellectuals. So you know, I,

3084
02:51:01,320 --> 02:51:05,119
Speaker 1: I we we never know. This is also I never

3085
02:51:05,440 --> 02:51:08,920
Speaker 1: used Jacobin as a source on the show because they

3086
02:51:09,000 --> 02:51:12,600
Speaker 1: pay fifty bucks per article and that ship way. Yeah,

3087
02:51:12,760 --> 02:51:16,879
Speaker 1: Jacobin not a cool publication, actually not mega based. Yeah,

3088
02:51:18,040 --> 02:51:20,640
Speaker 1: your workers, if you're pertaining to be socialised. Yeah, she's

3089
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:25,800
Speaker 1: trying to be like a labor But Bosh Garconara is

3090
02:51:25,920 --> 02:51:28,800
Speaker 1: on the record talking about the quote, his quote petite

3091
02:51:28,840 --> 02:51:33,400
Speaker 1: bourgeois hustle, talking about how we made Jacobin. So you know, okay,

3092
02:51:33,480 --> 02:51:35,520
Speaker 1: well we'll we'll get back to the class aspect of

3093
02:51:35,560 --> 02:51:38,600
Speaker 1: all of this next episode. But okay, let's go back

3094
02:51:38,640 --> 02:51:41,720
Speaker 1: to this paper, and let's take a second just look

3095
02:51:41,720 --> 02:51:44,800
Speaker 1: at what they're actually arguing. And the first thing I

3096
02:51:44,840 --> 02:51:47,120
Speaker 1: need to used to understand about their argument is that

3097
02:51:47,160 --> 02:51:51,720
Speaker 1: their entire, the entire substantive argument of this paper hinges

3098
02:51:51,920 --> 02:51:56,160
Speaker 1: on an absolutely enormous lie. Um here, let me let

3099
02:51:56,280 --> 02:51:59,000
Speaker 1: let let me let me we quote this lie. Yet

3100
02:51:59,040 --> 02:52:01,800
Speaker 1: it also illustrate rate's the much less well known fact

3101
02:52:01,879 --> 02:52:04,320
Speaker 1: that America is not in all an outlier and it's

3102
02:52:04,440 --> 02:52:07,600
Speaker 1: rate of policing. The United States has around two hundred

3103
02:52:07,640 --> 02:52:10,880
Speaker 1: and twelve police officers for every hundred thousand total residents,

3104
02:52:11,280 --> 02:52:14,280
Speaker 1: which ranks it in the forty one percentile of today's

3105
02:52:14,320 --> 02:52:19,600
Speaker 1: developed world. Now, as Alec Carricatanas points out, they've deliberately

3106
02:52:19,680 --> 02:52:22,360
Speaker 1: picked the lowest number of cops they can find any like,

3107
02:52:22,440 --> 02:52:24,280
Speaker 1: the lowest reported number of cops in the US they

3108
02:52:24,280 --> 02:52:27,320
Speaker 1: can find anywhere. Um, and so they picked six hundred

3109
02:52:27,959 --> 02:52:30,879
Speaker 1: thousand from basically like it's it's they picked this number

3110
02:52:30,879 --> 02:52:34,680
Speaker 1: from an FBI reporting thing. But the FBI also says

3111
02:52:34,720 --> 02:52:36,520
Speaker 1: that they don't have all the cops there because it's

3112
02:52:36,560 --> 02:52:39,120
Speaker 1: it's like it's basically like a voluntary reporting thing. So

3113
02:52:39,200 --> 02:52:41,560
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of cops that aren't there. And then, um,

3114
02:52:41,600 --> 02:52:45,680
Speaker 1: here's from Karakatatas, who's a piece about this quote the professors.

3115
02:52:45,959 --> 02:52:49,879
Speaker 1: The professor then admitted privately over email that the US

3116
02:52:49,959 --> 02:52:53,560
Speaker 1: census count is actually one million, two hundred twenty seven thousand,

3117
02:52:53,640 --> 02:52:57,840
Speaker 1: seven eight police. That's seventies six percent higher for the

3118
02:52:57,920 --> 02:53:01,480
Speaker 1: number they chose the US article. What is the significance

3119
02:53:01,520 --> 02:53:04,480
Speaker 1: of this using this number? They admitted to me the

3120
02:53:04,560 --> 02:53:08,199
Speaker 1: United States truthfully has one point one times the media

3121
02:53:08,360 --> 02:53:13,960
Speaker 1: rated rich countries. So they've been over email that they have.

3122
02:53:14,520 --> 02:53:17,680
Speaker 1: This whole article is based on them lying how many

3123
02:53:17,720 --> 02:53:20,360
Speaker 1: cops there are in the US. And it's actually way

3124
02:53:20,440 --> 02:53:24,080
Speaker 1: worse than this because as as as he points out right,

3125
02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:28,400
Speaker 1: this number than to the number that they're using only

3126
02:53:28,520 --> 02:53:34,440
Speaker 1: tracks public police, so they doesn't count private police. And

3127
02:53:34,480 --> 02:53:36,600
Speaker 1: if you count private police, that number doubles. Again, not

3128
02:53:36,760 --> 02:53:41,039
Speaker 1: like there's private police, there's there's no FIV cops, right

3129
02:53:41,080 --> 02:53:42,640
Speaker 1: and and the other thing isn't this the other thing

3130
02:53:42,720 --> 02:53:46,320
Speaker 1: is doesn't count? Is this counts zero federal agencies? I

3131
02:53:46,440 --> 02:53:49,679
Speaker 1: just gonna say that it doesn't count. Federal agency doesn't

3132
02:53:49,720 --> 02:53:53,840
Speaker 1: count like state police even I think, I think, actually

3133
02:53:53,840 --> 02:53:57,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. You can't shareff Is that not police?

3134
02:53:57,080 --> 02:54:02,480
Speaker 1: Their deputies? They're different patrol. I mean, who's who's to say,

3135
02:54:02,560 --> 02:54:10,080
Speaker 1: who's spent more time on this if they have already yeah,

3136
02:54:10,320 --> 02:54:13,040
Speaker 1: right right, okay, like to to get it to to

3137
02:54:13,080 --> 02:54:16,280
Speaker 1: get it understanding of this, even if you exclude the

3138
02:54:16,360 --> 02:54:20,520
Speaker 1: Feds entirely right EXCLA. And again, and this is actually

3139
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:22,360
Speaker 1: a bad idea because again we have like a fucking

3140
02:54:22,440 --> 02:54:25,240
Speaker 1: trillion federal agencies, for example, ice in the Border Patrol,

3141
02:54:25,280 --> 02:54:28,680
Speaker 1: who again run just another police state inside of the

3142
02:54:29,080 --> 02:54:33,560
Speaker 1: American police state. Right, we have that and obviously, okay,

3143
02:54:33,600 --> 02:54:36,360
Speaker 1: so he's comparing our our level of policing to policing

3144
02:54:36,440 --> 02:54:40,199
Speaker 1: in in uh in like European countries, right, and okay,

3145
02:54:40,280 --> 02:54:43,320
Speaker 1: I I don't want to minimize how many border cops

3146
02:54:43,400 --> 02:54:47,320
Speaker 1: European countries have, but the US has way fucking more

3147
02:54:47,360 --> 02:54:52,760
Speaker 1: border clan they do not like, they do horrible things.

3148
02:54:52,879 --> 02:54:55,080
Speaker 1: I will yell at the until the end of time

3149
02:54:55,120 --> 02:54:57,280
Speaker 1: about how every every friend text member needs to be

3150
02:54:57,400 --> 02:55:04,760
Speaker 1: like redacted, etcetera, etcetera parody. But like, no, great, even

3151
02:55:05,200 --> 02:55:07,959
Speaker 1: even even if you cut that out right, the actual

3152
02:55:08,120 --> 02:55:10,440
Speaker 1: number of cops in the US is three times higher

3153
02:55:10,480 --> 02:55:14,720
Speaker 1: than the number they've given us. Actually it might be yeah, yeah, okay,

3154
02:55:14,920 --> 02:55:17,280
Speaker 1: I feel like there's there's anything that we can agree

3155
02:55:17,320 --> 02:55:20,040
Speaker 1: on as a nation is that America kind of has

3156
02:55:20,080 --> 02:55:23,199
Speaker 1: a lot of police. That's like that's like what everyone

3157
02:55:23,320 --> 02:55:27,360
Speaker 1: kind of knows. That's like people like people the place

3158
02:55:27,440 --> 02:55:31,320
Speaker 1: with like the really like it's like really militarized and

3159
02:55:31,400 --> 02:55:35,200
Speaker 1: heavy policing. Yeah, like like a person who moved to America,

3160
02:55:35,320 --> 02:55:38,080
Speaker 1: it is shocking how many cops there are, how many

3161
02:55:38,080 --> 02:55:40,920
Speaker 1: different cops there are, and how there are cops everywhere

3162
02:55:41,080 --> 02:55:44,640
Speaker 1: all the time. It is the thing that it is

3163
02:55:44,760 --> 02:55:50,640
Speaker 1: very different about America. Oh god, okay, so statistic to

3164
02:55:50,760 --> 02:55:58,040
Speaker 1: get that number quite possibly like that ship. Yeah yeah,

3165
02:55:58,080 --> 02:56:02,120
Speaker 1: I would absolutely if one of my students in community.

3166
02:56:02,160 --> 02:56:05,040
Speaker 1: God days, we'd have a talk. Okay, okay, So do

3167
02:56:05,280 --> 02:56:07,320
Speaker 1: you know what else is based on the myth of

3168
02:56:07,400 --> 02:56:14,400
Speaker 1: under policing these adverts for private cops. Yes, Federal Protective

3169
02:56:14,400 --> 02:56:18,400
Speaker 1: Service gets them. All right, we're back, uh okay, So

3170
02:56:19,320 --> 02:56:23,040
Speaker 1: all right, we've established that this this is, this is

3171
02:56:23,160 --> 02:56:25,120
Speaker 1: This argument is built on a pile of lines. However,

3172
02:56:25,440 --> 02:56:28,760
Speaker 1: the actual content of the argument is also really funny

3173
02:56:28,920 --> 02:56:34,680
Speaker 1: and completely incomprehensible. So their argument is that somehow, if

3174
02:56:34,720 --> 02:56:38,879
Speaker 1: the US had more cops, right, and and and if

3175
02:56:38,959 --> 02:56:42,800
Speaker 1: if if if the ratio of cops to people like

3176
02:56:43,560 --> 02:56:45,560
Speaker 1: that the U S had was like in line with

3177
02:56:45,680 --> 02:56:49,360
Speaker 1: the European countries, that somehow and there they never have

3178
02:56:49,440 --> 02:56:52,359
Speaker 1: a mechanism for how this would happen, This would somehow

3179
02:56:52,600 --> 02:56:57,320
Speaker 1: lower the incarceration rate. I think the mechanism is line

3180
02:56:59,440 --> 02:57:01,960
Speaker 1: that's whatever one says is that we have more police

3181
02:57:02,000 --> 02:57:05,760
Speaker 1: that lowers incarceration rates. Yeah. Yeah. The entire argument here

3182
02:57:05,920 --> 02:57:08,320
Speaker 1: is what if the US was like Sweden, then there

3183
02:57:08,360 --> 02:57:11,320
Speaker 1: would be five thousand more cops, but somehow also less

3184
02:57:11,360 --> 02:57:16,920
Speaker 1: one also one point nine billion less uh prisoners. So well,

3185
02:57:17,240 --> 02:57:23,280
Speaker 1: anything that's different between US and Sweden is oh god, okay.

3186
02:57:23,320 --> 02:57:25,760
Speaker 1: So so what why are socialists pushing for this? And

3187
02:57:26,120 --> 02:57:29,280
Speaker 1: especially socialists and again as these are these are people

3188
02:57:29,760 --> 02:57:32,039
Speaker 1: who in their article admit that they think the best

3189
02:57:32,120 --> 02:57:34,760
Speaker 1: way to deal with with poverty and with crime is

3190
02:57:34,840 --> 02:57:39,199
Speaker 1: welfare programs, not mass incarceration. So okay, so why why

3191
02:57:39,640 --> 02:57:42,279
Speaker 1: why are they pushing for this? And the initial answer

3192
02:57:42,360 --> 02:57:46,120
Speaker 1: is that they think they can reduce crime, specifically homicides

3193
02:57:46,200 --> 02:57:52,119
Speaker 1: by increasing policing, and they think which should be fair

3194
02:57:52,360 --> 02:57:56,400
Speaker 1: is an opinion that I would say at this point

3195
02:57:56,560 --> 02:58:00,920
Speaker 1: probably the majority of Americans have maybe I don't know

3196
02:58:01,000 --> 02:58:04,440
Speaker 1: if I buy that. I don't know if that's I

3197
02:58:04,560 --> 02:58:06,360
Speaker 1: think you may be a little bit further out of

3198
02:58:06,360 --> 02:58:10,960
Speaker 1: the Overton window. The majority of Americans, I think, do

3199
02:58:11,360 --> 02:58:15,080
Speaker 1: do believe that if there's a few more cops, maybe

3200
02:58:15,120 --> 02:58:18,320
Speaker 1: we'll have a few less murders. I don't know. Well, well,

3201
02:58:18,360 --> 02:58:20,760
Speaker 1: well we'll see about that. But Okay. The other thing though,

3202
02:58:20,840 --> 02:58:24,080
Speaker 1: that's sort of like amazing about this right is that

3203
02:58:24,200 --> 02:58:26,800
Speaker 1: they think, okay, so they think they can cut the

3204
02:58:26,840 --> 02:58:29,360
Speaker 1: homicide rate by hiring more police. They also think that

3205
02:58:29,520 --> 02:58:33,240
Speaker 1: hiring more police i will solve the problem with policing

3206
02:58:33,280 --> 02:58:35,960
Speaker 1: because the problem with police is that the police don't

3207
02:58:36,040 --> 02:58:38,800
Speaker 1: do enough, and so we need more of them. And

3208
02:58:38,879 --> 02:58:41,760
Speaker 1: then and then also and then also this will make

3209
02:58:41,840 --> 02:58:45,720
Speaker 1: them less violent. I mean, this is something, This is

3210
02:58:45,800 --> 02:58:49,720
Speaker 1: even the this is even like the whole like Joe Biden, like,

3211
02:58:50,040 --> 02:58:52,600
Speaker 1: we have to we can't we can't defund the police.

3212
02:58:52,600 --> 02:58:54,840
Speaker 1: We have to fund the police, have to resources because

3213
02:58:54,879 --> 02:58:59,560
Speaker 1: if if they have less resources, then that means they'll

3214
02:58:59,600 --> 02:59:02,760
Speaker 1: have to use more violence. And it's that that style

3215
02:59:02,840 --> 02:59:07,640
Speaker 1: of arguments, it's it's talking point. Yeah. But what's interesting

3216
02:59:07,720 --> 02:59:10,199
Speaker 1: about this again is that these people nominally are socialists,

3217
02:59:10,840 --> 02:59:13,440
Speaker 1: and you know, in order to justify this right, they

3218
02:59:14,520 --> 02:59:16,840
Speaker 1: argue that while being in prison is bad, and then

3219
02:59:16,840 --> 02:59:19,760
Speaker 1: they list a bunch of consequences of being in prison,

3220
02:59:20,240 --> 02:59:23,320
Speaker 1: being in a neighborhood is with high crime is also

3221
02:59:23,440 --> 02:59:26,560
Speaker 1: as bad. For the same reason. They're literally arguing the

3222
02:59:26,720 --> 02:59:30,200
Speaker 1: being in a place with crime is basically the same

3223
02:59:30,280 --> 02:59:39,200
Speaker 1: as being in prison, big time Prinston understanding, like I look, okay,

3224
02:59:40,200 --> 02:59:42,160
Speaker 1: there are there are very few people I would ever

3225
02:59:42,240 --> 02:59:47,400
Speaker 1: say that, Garrison. Look, I hope these people gotta do

3226
02:59:47,440 --> 02:59:50,720
Speaker 1: withthnography of this one day, Like I I hope, I

3227
02:59:50,840 --> 02:59:52,640
Speaker 1: hope they get to go study what the inside of

3228
02:59:52,720 --> 02:59:56,280
Speaker 1: prison is like I think participant observation. Yeah, I hope

3229
02:59:56,320 --> 02:59:59,680
Speaker 1: they do this like you, like they're they're there. There

3230
02:59:59,720 --> 03:00:03,000
Speaker 1: are there are lines in this article like here here,

3231
03:00:03,280 --> 03:00:05,520
Speaker 1: here is a random line I've pulled from this article,

3232
03:00:05,560 --> 03:00:08,080
Speaker 1: and they say at one point, quote, in fact, black

3233
03:00:08,160 --> 03:00:11,879
Speaker 1: people seem to be underrepresented among those who report ever

3234
03:00:12,040 --> 03:00:17,600
Speaker 1: having been arrested in their lifetimes. What alright? That is

3235
03:00:17,600 --> 03:00:24,960
Speaker 1: a direct quote citation need. What they've done some absolutely insane.

3236
03:00:25,240 --> 03:00:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not I'm not actually going to

3237
03:00:27,120 --> 03:00:29,520
Speaker 1: dignify them by laying out the stats bullshit that they've

3238
03:00:29,560 --> 03:00:32,400
Speaker 1: they've they've attempt to justify this, like we have already

3239
03:00:32,520 --> 03:00:36,000
Speaker 1: seen what their stats look like, their stats are trying

3240
03:00:36,000 --> 03:00:40,800
Speaker 1: to compare a rate. Yeah, it's insane, it's completely nuts.

3241
03:00:41,400 --> 03:00:43,800
Speaker 1: Like that's the one thing that that's the one thing

3242
03:00:43,879 --> 03:00:47,000
Speaker 1: that even like racist like Republicans like no is like

3243
03:00:48,520 --> 03:00:52,200
Speaker 1: they'll be like, yeah, there's more because because I don't

3244
03:00:52,280 --> 03:00:56,560
Speaker 1: like black people, and you're like, that's not why, but whatever. Yeah,

3245
03:00:56,560 --> 03:01:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm between this paragraph now and it is actually it's bad.

3246
03:01:01,680 --> 03:01:05,800
Speaker 1: So okay, I think, okay, so we have established this

3247
03:01:05,840 --> 03:01:08,960
Speaker 1: is bullshit, right, I want to read a kind of

3248
03:01:09,080 --> 03:01:12,640
Speaker 1: long section that I think gives the game away as

3249
03:01:12,720 --> 03:01:16,840
Speaker 1: to why they're arguing this quote. We think, in the

3250
03:01:16,959 --> 03:01:20,000
Speaker 1: long run, a significant expansion of social policy we reduce

3251
03:01:20,080 --> 03:01:23,320
Speaker 1: crime by addressing its root causes, and in turn reduced

3252
03:01:23,360 --> 03:01:27,200
Speaker 1: the need demand for both policing and imprisonments. Okay, other work,

3253
03:01:28,040 --> 03:01:30,920
Speaker 1: this is true, I would say probably probably true. In

3254
03:01:31,000 --> 03:01:34,120
Speaker 1: other work, we argue that any coherent conception of distributive

3255
03:01:34,200 --> 03:01:37,400
Speaker 1: justice or economic efficiency entails that the United States should

3256
03:01:37,400 --> 03:01:41,480
Speaker 1: expand its social policy. But a significant expansion of social

3257
03:01:41,560 --> 03:01:46,160
Speaker 1: policy requires significant redistribution from rich to poor. Redistribution of

3258
03:01:46,240 --> 03:01:48,920
Speaker 1: this magnitude will require the poorer to wield some kind

3259
03:01:48,959 --> 03:01:51,800
Speaker 1: of leverage over the rich. Given the collapse of the

3260
03:01:51,840 --> 03:01:55,039
Speaker 1: American labor movement and the electoral fracturing of the American

3261
03:01:55,120 --> 03:01:58,199
Speaker 1: working class, we doubt we will see anything like this soon.

3262
03:01:59,120 --> 03:02:02,080
Speaker 1: Our aim in this essays to say something useful about

3263
03:02:02,120 --> 03:02:04,560
Speaker 1: what should be done in the non ideal world in

3264
03:02:04,600 --> 03:02:07,560
Speaker 1: which we live, not just in the ideal world in

3265
03:02:07,600 --> 03:02:12,240
Speaker 1: which we would like to live. Just to hold on, wait,

3266
03:02:12,520 --> 03:02:14,400
Speaker 1: let me let me, let me read this next sentence.

3267
03:02:14,879 --> 03:02:18,199
Speaker 1: It gets worse. Okay, to say something about that question.

3268
03:02:18,320 --> 03:02:23,600
Speaker 1: We limit ourselves two options that are revenue neutral. Ah,

3269
03:02:24,400 --> 03:02:28,720
Speaker 1: these are socialists, so bizarre. I think they may have

3270
03:02:28,879 --> 03:02:33,640
Speaker 1: walked outside. They've yeah, like like they've they've you know, okay,

3271
03:02:34,080 --> 03:02:36,160
Speaker 1: there's okay, So there's actually more of this that is

3272
03:02:36,200 --> 03:02:39,560
Speaker 1: also like like it keeps going, can never have a

3273
03:02:39,600 --> 03:02:43,480
Speaker 1: better world. And you know what that means is that

3274
03:02:43,560 --> 03:02:47,760
Speaker 1: we should have more police. Here here, here is there,

3275
03:02:47,840 --> 03:02:51,440
Speaker 1: Here is their defense ofness. But why consider only prisons

3276
03:02:51,480 --> 03:02:54,680
Speaker 1: and police. Why couldn't the government redistribute the existing pool

3277
03:02:54,720 --> 03:02:58,720
Speaker 1: of money from prisons and police to social programs, as

3278
03:02:58,800 --> 03:03:02,880
Speaker 1: many reformers have to ended, We would argue in and

3279
03:03:02,959 --> 03:03:05,040
Speaker 1: What's Wrong with Mass Incarceration? Which is a book that

3280
03:03:05,080 --> 03:03:13,560
Speaker 1: they're going to release that I hope nobody buys. This

3281
03:03:13,760 --> 03:03:16,440
Speaker 1: is because social policy is bedeviled by what we call

3282
03:03:16,600 --> 03:03:21,000
Speaker 1: the efficiency feasibility paradox. To address the root causes of

3283
03:03:21,120 --> 03:03:24,160
Speaker 1: crime would be meaningfully to change the opportunity structure for

3284
03:03:24,200 --> 03:03:27,360
Speaker 1: the most disadvantaged people in America. To do this by

3285
03:03:27,480 --> 03:03:32,280
Speaker 1: expanding untargeted universal social programs will require significant resources, since

3286
03:03:32,320 --> 03:03:36,160
Speaker 1: the vast majority of beneficiaries are not America's most disadvantaged people,

3287
03:03:36,879 --> 03:03:39,400
Speaker 1: because penal spending is hyper targeted in a way that

3288
03:03:39,480 --> 03:03:43,320
Speaker 1: social spending is not. It costs about three billion dollars

3289
03:03:43,360 --> 03:03:46,240
Speaker 1: a year to run the world's most extensive penal state,

3290
03:03:46,280 --> 03:03:48,560
Speaker 1: but something like three trillion dollars to run its most

3291
03:03:48,640 --> 03:03:52,520
Speaker 1: amnemic welfare state. We admit there are significant This is

3292
03:03:52,560 --> 03:03:55,920
Speaker 1: a slightly lated prograph. We admit there are significant obstacles

3293
03:03:55,959 --> 03:03:58,680
Speaker 1: to changing the balance that state and local government strike

3294
03:03:58,800 --> 03:04:02,440
Speaker 1: between the arms of law enforcements. There are, after all,

3295
03:04:02,640 --> 03:04:05,280
Speaker 1: reasons that the United States has involved its present day

3296
03:04:05,320 --> 03:04:08,400
Speaker 1: penal balance. But our view is that the first world balance,

3297
03:04:08,440 --> 03:04:10,240
Speaker 1: So the first world balances is that the thing they're

3298
03:04:10,240 --> 03:04:12,560
Speaker 1: talking about that like supposedly Norway has or some ship

3299
03:04:12,720 --> 03:04:15,200
Speaker 1: where they have bore cops, but like per capita but

3300
03:04:15,280 --> 03:04:18,760
Speaker 1: less people incarcerated. Um. But our view is at than

3301
03:04:18,840 --> 03:04:22,560
Speaker 1: first world balance is nonetheless substantially more feasible than any

3302
03:04:22,720 --> 03:04:25,840
Speaker 1: of the than the kinds of things that reformers tend

3303
03:04:25,879 --> 03:04:29,840
Speaker 1: to demand today. In the highly unequal aligarhic America in

3304
03:04:29,920 --> 03:04:34,800
Speaker 1: which we live at present, calls to calls to reallocate

3305
03:04:34,879 --> 03:04:37,600
Speaker 1: a fixed pool of revenue will meet with less powerful

3306
03:04:37,640 --> 03:04:41,000
Speaker 1: opposition than calls to tax the rich. That is why

3307
03:04:41,080 --> 03:04:44,080
Speaker 1: we assume it is infeasible to expect the United States

3308
03:04:44,160 --> 03:04:46,480
Speaker 1: to build a generous welfare state in the mold of

3309
03:04:46,480 --> 03:04:50,800
Speaker 1: the Scandinavian social democracies. Proposals to use hyper targeted social

3310
03:04:50,879 --> 03:04:55,440
Speaker 1: policy to adjust the root causes of crime are similarly infeasible.

3311
03:04:55,959 --> 03:04:58,760
Speaker 1: As we have argued, to be efficient, a social policy

3312
03:04:58,800 --> 03:05:01,959
Speaker 1: intervention must' meaning we transformed the opportunity structures of those

3313
03:05:02,040 --> 03:05:04,920
Speaker 1: most likely to commit crime. I mean, an intervention that

3314
03:05:04,959 --> 03:05:08,760
Speaker 1: transformed the structures of opportunity only in only those in

3315
03:05:08,840 --> 03:05:11,440
Speaker 1: this position will up end the effective in such a

3316
03:05:11,480 --> 03:05:14,360
Speaker 1: structure of unequal societies, thus coming up the economy and

3317
03:05:14,400 --> 03:05:18,560
Speaker 1: eliciting political opposition. I mean here's Here's the thing is that,

3318
03:05:19,000 --> 03:05:22,039
Speaker 1: in some ways I agree that the United States won't

3319
03:05:22,280 --> 03:05:25,560
Speaker 1: get better by making social policies within my lifetime. But

3320
03:05:25,720 --> 03:05:29,080
Speaker 1: my solution to this is a legalist lifestylist of not

3321
03:05:29,280 --> 03:05:32,440
Speaker 1: hiring workoffs. Well, don't worry, there is there is a

3322
03:05:32,600 --> 03:05:38,760
Speaker 1: significant section of this. Wheathery shipped on anarchism. Okay, okay,

3323
03:05:40,040 --> 03:05:43,480
Speaker 1: this is what fucking happens when all your friends are

3324
03:05:43,560 --> 03:05:47,640
Speaker 1: also Harvard professors. I mean it's also real fucking people,

3325
03:05:47,720 --> 03:05:51,080
Speaker 1: because you don't fucking talk to them and they're like, oh,

3326
03:05:51,840 --> 03:05:56,119
Speaker 1: the lever it's it's obviously written by somebody who's currently

3327
03:05:56,280 --> 03:06:00,200
Speaker 1: like well off. Like it's they're currently doing well. Which

3328
03:06:00,240 --> 03:06:03,360
Speaker 1: is why because they because they don't think the world's

3329
03:06:03,400 --> 03:06:06,680
Speaker 1: going to turn into socialist utopia, but they're personally doing Okay.

3330
03:06:07,040 --> 03:06:09,200
Speaker 1: The way to will make the world feel better for

3331
03:06:09,280 --> 03:06:11,560
Speaker 1: them is maybe more police will make me feel safer

3332
03:06:11,840 --> 03:06:14,480
Speaker 1: like that, that's what that's what they're doing is because

3333
03:06:14,520 --> 03:06:18,280
Speaker 1: they're already well off and they're like, well, social isn't coming.

3334
03:06:18,560 --> 03:06:21,200
Speaker 1: I want to live a happier life. Maybe police will

3335
03:06:21,280 --> 03:06:23,840
Speaker 1: keep the bad people away from me. Yeah, because they

3336
03:06:23,879 --> 03:06:27,400
Speaker 1: see poverty of an issue of poverty is upstream of crime,

3337
03:06:27,600 --> 03:06:29,920
Speaker 1: and crime is a fucking annoyance to them because someone

3338
03:06:30,000 --> 03:06:34,040
Speaker 1: might steal their fucking BMW again crime. Living in a

3339
03:06:34,080 --> 03:06:36,320
Speaker 1: place where crime is the same as being in prison

3340
03:06:38,560 --> 03:06:42,840
Speaker 1: because you cannot conceive because it's socialism without sucking empathy

3341
03:06:43,040 --> 03:06:46,800
Speaker 1: or experience of fucking poverty. Right, so you can make

3342
03:06:46,879 --> 03:06:50,600
Speaker 1: these ludicrous statements and all your friends in the smoking

3343
03:06:50,720 --> 03:06:53,240
Speaker 1: room a Harvard will agree with you. Go harm yes,

3344
03:06:56,200 --> 03:06:58,160
Speaker 1: and I mean, I mean this is the thing very frustrating,

3345
03:06:58,480 --> 03:07:02,039
Speaker 1: Like they they fundament sleep like when Bernie lost the election,

3346
03:07:02,120 --> 03:07:05,080
Speaker 1: these people gave up on politics. Like that's what's happening there.

3347
03:07:05,120 --> 03:07:07,880
Speaker 1: They're arguing that like not even is not even just

3348
03:07:08,000 --> 03:07:10,720
Speaker 1: like the class drug goes is unwinnable. They're arguing that

3349
03:07:10,920 --> 03:07:15,160
Speaker 1: basic liberal politics is impossible, right, like taxing the rich

3350
03:07:15,360 --> 03:07:17,240
Speaker 1: like is a thing that that that's not like a

3351
03:07:17,360 --> 03:07:20,880
Speaker 1: radical thing, that's like like the basic that's like a

3352
03:07:21,000 --> 03:07:24,720
Speaker 1: basic democratic party thing. And they're they're arguing that it's

3353
03:07:24,760 --> 03:07:28,640
Speaker 1: so impossible that anyone who has a plan to change

3354
03:07:28,680 --> 03:07:32,720
Speaker 1: anything has to pre means test it to be compliant

3355
03:07:32,760 --> 03:07:36,120
Speaker 1: with a non existent balanced budget amendment to get the

3356
03:07:36,240 --> 03:07:39,480
Speaker 1: right to support it, Like Liz trust here, shit like

3357
03:07:40,160 --> 03:07:42,040
Speaker 1: this is what this was written by? What of the

3358
03:07:42,120 --> 03:07:45,280
Speaker 1: people on the editorial board of Jocobin. Yeah, well that

3359
03:07:45,360 --> 03:07:50,040
Speaker 1: doesn't chock me. But it's very funny to look at

3360
03:07:50,040 --> 03:07:54,720
Speaker 1: their citations, which are like people being like this article

3361
03:07:54,840 --> 03:08:00,320
Speaker 1: is horse shit, and then like like cop publications, Yeah,

3362
03:08:00,400 --> 03:08:04,720
Speaker 1: ok yeah, let's go so okay, so so have having

3363
03:08:04,800 --> 03:08:06,840
Speaker 1: actually well okay, so before we do we should we

3364
03:08:06,840 --> 03:08:10,520
Speaker 1: should do another add thing. Do you know what? Who

3365
03:08:10,600 --> 03:08:14,040
Speaker 1: else has completely abandoned the idea that there's any possibility

3366
03:08:14,080 --> 03:08:18,000
Speaker 1: of social change in the world. The Conservative Party and

3367
03:08:18,160 --> 03:08:21,040
Speaker 1: Unions Party in quite written in Northern Island. Yeah do

3368
03:08:21,200 --> 03:08:24,200
Speaker 1: they do. I guess now we're going to take the

3369
03:08:24,240 --> 03:08:30,440
Speaker 1: money out there. Thank you, Richie sa and okay, we're back.

3370
03:08:30,520 --> 03:08:34,320
Speaker 1: So so, having abandoned politics in favor of complete capitulation

3371
03:08:34,400 --> 03:08:37,119
Speaker 1: to the forces of reaction, they turned towards a cost

3372
03:08:37,200 --> 03:08:42,040
Speaker 1: benefit analysis of having more cops. The benefit, they argue,

3373
03:08:42,160 --> 03:08:45,120
Speaker 1: is less crime. And this is bullshit. There is no

3374
03:08:45,160 --> 03:08:49,440
Speaker 1: staistical evidence to having more cops produces crime. I have done, like,

3375
03:08:50,800 --> 03:08:52,720
Speaker 1: there are other reasons why this is bullshit. I have done.

3376
03:08:52,959 --> 03:08:56,960
Speaker 1: I have done the entire series about there is a

3377
03:08:57,000 --> 03:09:00,600
Speaker 1: lot of writing on this topic and how discorely this

3378
03:09:00,760 --> 03:09:06,000
Speaker 1: correlation is not actually effective. Um, but yeah, and and

3379
03:09:06,240 --> 03:09:09,120
Speaker 1: and it's also like a very important thing here is

3380
03:09:09,480 --> 03:09:11,160
Speaker 1: this is this is this is the thing that's about

3381
03:09:11,200 --> 03:09:13,960
Speaker 1: what kind of crime you care about, right, Like I

3382
03:09:14,280 --> 03:09:17,080
Speaker 1: have written an entire series about why my about. You know,

3383
03:09:17,879 --> 03:09:20,320
Speaker 1: the times of my police department was literally being run

3384
03:09:20,400 --> 03:09:22,560
Speaker 1: by multiple drug gartels at the same time when they

3385
03:09:22,600 --> 03:09:24,960
Speaker 1: strapped used to fucking radiators and attacking the balls the

3386
03:09:25,000 --> 03:09:27,520
Speaker 1: car batteries. They shot children in the street, They disappeared

3387
03:09:27,560 --> 03:09:29,360
Speaker 1: people to be tortured in the fucking black sites, and

3388
03:09:29,400 --> 03:09:31,080
Speaker 1: then they went to fucking a rock and teach the

3389
03:09:31,120 --> 03:09:34,280
Speaker 1: CIA how to do it. Like like these people that

3390
03:09:34,400 --> 03:09:36,560
Speaker 1: the cops are they are rapists, they are kidnappers, they

3391
03:09:36,560 --> 03:09:39,760
Speaker 1: are extortionists, they are thieves, they are torturers, they are murders.

3392
03:09:39,920 --> 03:09:42,320
Speaker 1: A lot of them are in literal neo Nazi gangs

3393
03:09:42,320 --> 03:09:45,680
Speaker 1: who run their own serial killer competitions. Um, none of

3394
03:09:45,800 --> 03:09:48,480
Speaker 1: this apply, like appears in any of the analysis that

3395
03:09:48,560 --> 03:09:52,440
Speaker 1: these dipshits have compiled. And it's when the old cultural

3396
03:09:52,480 --> 03:09:56,200
Speaker 1: turn to get involved. Ye look at the material conditions here, yeah, yeah,

3397
03:09:56,280 --> 03:09:58,920
Speaker 1: then the material conditions apparently are cop go up, crime

3398
03:09:59,040 --> 03:10:02,440
Speaker 1: go down, which it's also important, Like I think it's

3399
03:10:02,440 --> 03:10:06,000
Speaker 1: important to note there's a really good article, I think

3400
03:10:06,040 --> 03:10:08,320
Speaker 1: it was my amplist one called raise the Crime Rate

3401
03:10:08,959 --> 03:10:11,520
Speaker 1: from It's from like two thousand six. But they have

3402
03:10:11,680 --> 03:10:15,400
Speaker 1: that they have this point, which is that like the

3403
03:10:15,520 --> 03:10:19,800
Speaker 1: reductions in the crime way that we like see insofar

3404
03:10:19,879 --> 03:10:23,039
Speaker 1: as they happen, are not actually reductions into the amount

3405
03:10:23,040 --> 03:10:27,640
Speaker 1: of crime going on. Like what's happening is that, like

3406
03:10:28,520 --> 03:10:32,640
Speaker 1: we put people in prison and then the crime happens

3407
03:10:32,720 --> 03:10:37,000
Speaker 1: to them there. Right, Like, even even if you reduce

3408
03:10:37,080 --> 03:10:40,920
Speaker 1: the homicide rate outside of prison, there's still the homicide

3409
03:10:41,000 --> 03:10:43,680
Speaker 1: rate inside of prison, which nobody fucking gives a shit about.

3410
03:10:44,400 --> 03:10:46,960
Speaker 1: And you know because because again, this crime doesn't go away.

3411
03:10:47,000 --> 03:10:49,360
Speaker 1: All that happens is that it gets, it gets, you know,

3412
03:10:49,440 --> 03:10:51,600
Speaker 1: intensified and inflicted on a group of people the American

3413
03:10:51,640 --> 03:10:54,240
Speaker 1: public doesn't give a shit about. So, you know, all

3414
03:10:54,280 --> 03:10:56,360
Speaker 1: of the violence, all of the all of the rape,

3415
03:10:56,400 --> 03:10:58,640
Speaker 1: all the fucking murder, all of the theft, all of

3416
03:10:58,720 --> 03:11:01,280
Speaker 1: the ship we normally throw people in isn't for in theory,

3417
03:11:01,520 --> 03:11:03,640
Speaker 1: is just happening to people inside of prisons. It's just

3418
03:11:03,720 --> 03:11:05,720
Speaker 1: that academics can stop pretending to give a shit about

3419
03:11:05,720 --> 03:11:08,400
Speaker 1: it when they don't have to see it. Yeah, I

3420
03:11:08,560 --> 03:11:11,320
Speaker 1: like where I live, right, We just re elected a

3421
03:11:11,400 --> 03:11:14,720
Speaker 1: sheriff who was overseen like nineteen deaths in jail this

3422
03:11:14,920 --> 03:11:17,280
Speaker 1: year in San Diego. Right, but that is not seen

3423
03:11:17,360 --> 03:11:20,120
Speaker 1: as an issue of evidently to the people who voted

3424
03:11:20,160 --> 03:11:23,200
Speaker 1: for it, to the Democratic Party who endorsed her, and

3425
03:11:23,360 --> 03:11:26,040
Speaker 1: instead like they would much rather have that because there

3426
03:11:26,560 --> 03:11:29,000
Speaker 1: presumably worried that the person who ran against her in

3427
03:11:29,040 --> 03:11:31,600
Speaker 1: the primaries would be too soft d own crime and

3428
03:11:31,720 --> 03:11:37,440
Speaker 1: therefore you know, their teslas might get keyed. Yeah, so, okay,

3429
03:11:37,560 --> 03:11:42,240
Speaker 1: let's let's look at the supposed benefits. But less I

3430
03:11:42,400 --> 03:11:45,520
Speaker 1: guess those are the benefits. Let's look at let'sok at

3431
03:11:45,560 --> 03:11:50,520
Speaker 1: the costs. Finally consider, finally, consider the cost of policing.

3432
03:11:50,720 --> 03:11:53,320
Speaker 1: On the one hand, a world of more policing would

3433
03:11:53,400 --> 03:11:57,680
Speaker 1: perhaps unsurprisingly be a world of more arrests. Based on

3434
03:11:57,840 --> 03:12:00,440
Speaker 1: recent work by Chaplain our best guests at the First

3435
03:12:00,520 --> 03:12:03,720
Speaker 1: World Balanced would be a world of almost seven point

3436
03:12:03,920 --> 03:12:08,959
Speaker 1: eight million arrests. On the other hand, for some for okay,

3437
03:12:09,000 --> 03:12:10,480
Speaker 1: this is a direct quote. By the way, I need

3438
03:12:10,560 --> 03:12:12,600
Speaker 1: everyone to understand I am directly quoting them when I

3439
03:12:12,680 --> 03:12:15,920
Speaker 1: say this. On the other hand, for the somewhat speculative

3440
03:12:15,959 --> 03:12:19,000
Speaker 1: reasons we gave earlier, we guess that a world of

3441
03:12:19,080 --> 03:12:22,160
Speaker 1: more policing would be one of less police violence. About

3442
03:12:22,280 --> 03:12:28,720
Speaker 1: nine fewer people killed by the police based on what America.

3443
03:12:30,560 --> 03:12:34,879
Speaker 1: That's what that's that's how James americle occurs more cops

3444
03:12:35,320 --> 03:12:40,320
Speaker 1: than do less violence. Yep, yeah, this you know you

3445
03:12:40,400 --> 03:12:43,160
Speaker 1: could if you were, for example, a social scientist, right

3446
03:12:43,280 --> 03:12:45,120
Speaker 1: at all, you could look at all of the all

3447
03:12:45,200 --> 03:12:47,279
Speaker 1: of the other times the US has gotten more cops

3448
03:12:47,800 --> 03:12:50,680
Speaker 1: and tried to see if that like increased or decreased

3449
03:12:50,680 --> 03:12:53,840
Speaker 1: the amount of violence the police do. And you know

3450
03:12:54,800 --> 03:12:56,720
Speaker 1: the line, if you want the line, it's all good.

3451
03:12:57,240 --> 03:12:59,080
Speaker 1: I just I do want to your attention to figure

3452
03:12:59,120 --> 03:13:02,240
Speaker 1: one where they exactly one day to point and that

3453
03:13:02,320 --> 03:13:06,800
Speaker 1: they've just drawn a line to it, dissected a data

3454
03:13:06,879 --> 03:13:12,400
Speaker 1: point like blind oline. Like this whole thing is just

3455
03:13:12,560 --> 03:13:16,280
Speaker 1: sort of like like okay, So even if somehow, right

3456
03:13:16,400 --> 03:13:19,800
Speaker 1: by some miracle, this occurred and less people were killed

3457
03:13:19,800 --> 03:13:22,240
Speaker 1: by the police, we're killed by police violes because there

3458
03:13:22,320 --> 03:13:24,560
Speaker 1: was more cops. Which this is the kind of thing

3459
03:13:24,680 --> 03:13:27,280
Speaker 1: that for for for the purposes of this thought experiment, right,

3460
03:13:27,360 --> 03:13:30,200
Speaker 1: we are allowing people to believe this, like for the

3461
03:13:30,280 --> 03:13:32,080
Speaker 1: same reason that we allowed children to believe in the

3462
03:13:32,120 --> 03:13:39,920
Speaker 1: Easter Bunny. So kids don't believe in the Easter Buddy,

3463
03:13:40,200 --> 03:13:43,120
Speaker 1: I have I have met kids who believed in the

3464
03:13:43,160 --> 03:13:46,600
Speaker 1: Easter Bunny. I understand believing in Santa but people actually

3465
03:13:46,640 --> 03:13:49,440
Speaker 1: believe in the Easter Bunny. Not many, not many. But

3466
03:13:49,800 --> 03:13:52,520
Speaker 1: also also also most people don't believe the police will

3467
03:13:52,520 --> 03:13:54,800
Speaker 1: be more violent if if you have if it would

3468
03:13:54,800 --> 03:13:59,160
Speaker 1: be less violent if you have more of them. Yeah,

3469
03:13:59,280 --> 03:14:02,760
Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's let them believe this. Right, This

3470
03:14:03,080 --> 03:14:07,360
Speaker 1: entire argument hinges on the theory that incarceration and arrest

3471
03:14:07,800 --> 03:14:11,360
Speaker 1: are distinct outcomes of policing. Right, they're arguing that there's

3472
03:14:11,360 --> 03:14:14,600
Speaker 1: going to be more arrest but that's okay because there

3473
03:14:14,640 --> 03:14:18,400
Speaker 1: will be less people in prison. Now, there is one

3474
03:14:18,520 --> 03:14:21,520
Speaker 1: tidy problem here that you may have seen, which is

3475
03:14:21,600 --> 03:14:25,600
Speaker 1: that when you arrest people, it leads to people going

3476
03:14:25,800 --> 03:14:31,440
Speaker 1: to prison. Nowhere in this entire article have these two

3477
03:14:31,600 --> 03:14:35,560
Speaker 1: Harvard professors at any point considered the fact that when

3478
03:14:35,640 --> 03:14:38,800
Speaker 1: you arrest someone, they sometimes go to prison, and that

3479
03:14:39,040 --> 03:14:42,360
Speaker 1: arresting more people will mean more people go to prison,

3480
03:14:42,640 --> 03:14:47,000
Speaker 1: because that's what happens when you arrest someone. They've never

3481
03:14:47,160 --> 03:14:50,200
Speaker 1: considered this, and in fact, in fact, not only have

3482
03:14:50,280 --> 03:14:52,520
Speaker 1: they never considered this, they seem to believe that there

3483
03:14:52,600 --> 03:14:55,480
Speaker 1: is an inverse correlation between the number of people getting

3484
03:14:55,520 --> 03:14:58,280
Speaker 1: arrested and how many people go to prison. They think

3485
03:14:58,440 --> 03:15:02,320
Speaker 1: that seven million, eight hundred thousand more arrests will somehow

3486
03:15:02,440 --> 03:15:05,840
Speaker 1: lead to one point two million people less in prison.

3487
03:15:07,400 --> 03:15:13,280
Speaker 1: It's yeah, even the fucking what people in this country

3488
03:15:13,480 --> 03:15:17,120
Speaker 1: die in between arrest and they're hearing, right, like, in

3489
03:15:17,200 --> 03:15:21,400
Speaker 1: between arrested and having a fair trial, Like, yeah, to

3490
03:15:21,520 --> 03:15:25,640
Speaker 1: ignore that, it's it's not just like, it's not just wrong,

3491
03:15:25,680 --> 03:15:29,200
Speaker 1: it's callously cruel. Also, like they appeared to have not

3492
03:15:30,080 --> 03:15:32,440
Speaker 1: looked at any point at the opportunity cost of having

3493
03:15:32,480 --> 03:15:35,680
Speaker 1: all these cops. Right, we pay tops a metric ship

3494
03:15:35,760 --> 03:15:39,160
Speaker 1: ton of money because they're the only unions that apparently

3495
03:15:39,240 --> 03:15:42,120
Speaker 1: the state cares about, and like we could do something

3496
03:15:42,240 --> 03:15:44,560
Speaker 1: useful with that money, right, Like, well, the thing, the

3497
03:15:44,640 --> 03:15:47,240
Speaker 1: thing they claim they're doing is that they're going to

3498
03:15:47,320 --> 03:15:49,920
Speaker 1: fund less prisons and fund more cops, and this will

3499
03:15:50,000 --> 03:15:52,080
Speaker 1: lead to less people being in prison. Now, if this

3500
03:15:52,200 --> 03:15:54,080
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to you, that's because it doesn't

3501
03:15:54,080 --> 03:15:56,640
Speaker 1: make any sense at all. And and and again we

3502
03:15:56,720 --> 03:15:58,960
Speaker 1: have to come back to the question, what do you

3503
03:15:59,160 --> 03:16:01,760
Speaker 1: think happens a people who get arrested? Like do these

3504
03:16:01,800 --> 03:16:04,080
Speaker 1: people think they could send a vacation to Tahiti. Like

3505
03:16:04,360 --> 03:16:06,560
Speaker 1: I know none of these people, none of the people

3506
03:16:06,600 --> 03:16:09,560
Speaker 1: writing this have been arrested, but like you can't be

3507
03:16:09,720 --> 03:16:17,040
Speaker 1: the stupid, Like there's no way God. So okay, like

3508
03:16:17,680 --> 03:16:19,920
Speaker 1: we're I'm gonna close on some stuff here, which I'm

3509
03:16:19,920 --> 03:16:21,840
Speaker 1: gonna close on the sort of anarchist stuff that they

3510
03:16:22,080 --> 03:16:24,680
Speaker 1: they're ranting about. Um, I'm gonna'm gonna read another quote

3511
03:16:24,680 --> 03:16:29,360
Speaker 1: from this. Some civil libertarians might prefer radical decarceration without

3512
03:16:29,400 --> 03:16:33,039
Speaker 1: any increase or perhaps even some reduction in police force size,

3513
03:16:33,520 --> 03:16:36,120
Speaker 1: on the grounds that state imposed violence or harm is

3514
03:16:36,200 --> 03:16:39,760
Speaker 1: morally different from and worse than, interpersonal violence committed by

3515
03:16:39,800 --> 03:16:43,600
Speaker 1: private individuals. An extreme version of this position would hold

3516
03:16:43,680 --> 03:16:46,560
Speaker 1: that no amount of interpersonal violence could ever justify the

3517
03:16:46,640 --> 03:16:49,360
Speaker 1: use of commercive force by the state, but any state

3518
03:16:49,440 --> 03:16:52,600
Speaker 1: completely lacking and coercive power would be unable to enforce

3519
03:16:52,760 --> 03:16:55,520
Speaker 1: tax law and policy, and thus unable to collect revenue.

3520
03:16:56,120 --> 03:16:58,840
Speaker 1: Without revenue, the governor could not provide public goods to

3521
03:16:58,879 --> 03:17:01,000
Speaker 1: a social safety net. Which also, by the way, I

3522
03:17:01,040 --> 03:17:04,080
Speaker 1: want to stop here in like point out that like

3523
03:17:04,440 --> 03:17:07,200
Speaker 1: they like in any other context, none of these people

3524
03:17:07,240 --> 03:17:09,200
Speaker 1: believe this because like these. These people are all deal

3525
03:17:09,280 --> 03:17:11,320
Speaker 1: chart lists like that, they're all unempty people, and so

3526
03:17:11,400 --> 03:17:14,520
Speaker 1: they don't actually believe that money that they they in

3527
03:17:14,640 --> 03:17:17,320
Speaker 1: any other context except this one, they understand that money

3528
03:17:17,360 --> 03:17:21,240
Speaker 1: is something created by the state, except here when they

3529
03:17:21,280 --> 03:17:25,000
Speaker 1: have to justify police. Without revenue, governments cannot provide public

3530
03:17:25,040 --> 03:17:27,199
Speaker 1: goods or a social safety net. So this extreme version

3531
03:17:27,200 --> 03:17:30,800
Speaker 1: of libertarian civil libertarianisition is essentially a kind of political anarchism,

3532
03:17:31,280 --> 03:17:33,280
Speaker 1: and we doubt many are in fact committed to this

3533
03:17:33,400 --> 03:17:37,360
Speaker 1: brand of anarchism. So okay, well, let's unpack this second.

3534
03:17:37,400 --> 03:17:40,080
Speaker 1: When they say civil libertarianism here, what they say is

3535
03:17:40,160 --> 03:17:43,959
Speaker 1: that anyone who proposes to defund the police or reduce

3536
03:17:44,000 --> 03:17:47,279
Speaker 1: a number of people in prison. Right in the next paragraph,

3537
03:17:47,360 --> 03:17:49,600
Speaker 1: they argue that anyone who wants to do those things

3538
03:17:50,320 --> 03:17:53,560
Speaker 1: is actually in favor of increasing the homicide rate because

3539
03:17:54,280 --> 03:17:57,400
Speaker 1: when there's less when there's less cops than quote, serious

3540
03:17:57,520 --> 03:18:00,920
Speaker 1: crime runs unchecked in poor neighborhoods, which leaves you with

3541
03:18:00,959 --> 03:18:04,280
Speaker 1: two choices. Right, you can be an anarch quote unquote

3542
03:18:04,280 --> 03:18:06,959
Speaker 1: anarchist and let the crime happen because you supported decreasing

3543
03:18:06,959 --> 03:18:10,640
Speaker 1: the number of cops, or you can support having more cops. Yeah,

3544
03:18:10,760 --> 03:18:13,960
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's just an absurd extrapolation of a position. Well,

3545
03:18:14,080 --> 03:18:16,360
Speaker 1: but it's it's not just that they've they've given. What

3546
03:18:16,440 --> 03:18:18,800
Speaker 1: they're doing here is they're giving their entire gameaway. Right.

3547
03:18:19,320 --> 03:18:23,440
Speaker 1: What they've admitted is that their ideal society requires and

3548
03:18:23,840 --> 03:18:26,600
Speaker 1: this is what they are saying about the state's need

3549
03:18:26,680 --> 03:18:30,400
Speaker 1: for coercive power, right with their own arguments. They the

3550
03:18:30,640 --> 03:18:32,800
Speaker 1: course of power they need is the police. And so

3551
03:18:32,920 --> 03:18:36,040
Speaker 1: what they're saying is that their politics requires an entire

3552
03:18:36,120 --> 03:18:39,080
Speaker 1: class of rapist, neo Nazi murderers to you know, like

3553
03:18:39,360 --> 03:18:41,800
Speaker 1: to enforce their vision of the welfare state. Like, in

3554
03:18:42,160 --> 03:18:43,640
Speaker 1: order for there to be a welfare state, who have

3555
03:18:43,760 --> 03:18:45,240
Speaker 1: to be a bunch of people who can fucking walk

3556
03:18:45,280 --> 03:18:47,400
Speaker 1: into your door and shoot you, Right, there have to

3557
03:18:47,440 --> 03:18:49,440
Speaker 1: be a group of people who can fucking stand there,

3558
03:18:49,920 --> 03:18:52,760
Speaker 1: grab your child, smash her head into a wall fifteen times,

3559
03:18:52,840 --> 03:18:55,360
Speaker 1: and then fucking grab you and throw you through a window. Right.

3560
03:18:55,720 --> 03:18:59,119
Speaker 1: This is what they are arguing, And and this plays

3561
03:18:59,160 --> 03:19:01,040
Speaker 1: the question, Okay, so why these people want more cops,

3562
03:19:01,640 --> 03:19:03,480
Speaker 1: And you know, the caricature they offer up is that

3563
03:19:03,560 --> 03:19:05,320
Speaker 1: without cops, everyone would just murder each other. And so

3564
03:19:05,400 --> 03:19:07,160
Speaker 1: we need neo Nazi desk wats to stop us often

3565
03:19:07,200 --> 03:19:13,480
Speaker 1: murdering each other. But okay, that's stupid, right, like self

3566
03:19:13,560 --> 03:19:16,600
Speaker 1: Evidently police police are only like police are not that old.

3567
03:19:16,680 --> 03:19:18,920
Speaker 1: They've only been around for like two hundred years, so

3568
03:19:19,200 --> 03:19:21,080
Speaker 1: we know that's not true. So why do they actually

3569
03:19:21,160 --> 03:19:25,120
Speaker 1: want more cops? And you know something, something that's very interesting,

3570
03:19:25,160 --> 03:19:27,760
Speaker 1: given that this is an article about the police that

3571
03:19:27,959 --> 03:19:30,600
Speaker 1: is written by people who are on the editorial board

3572
03:19:30,600 --> 03:19:34,800
Speaker 1: of socialist magazines, Nowhere in this article doesn't mention the

3573
03:19:34,879 --> 03:19:38,440
Speaker 1: fact that the cops exist to protect private property. Right.

3574
03:19:39,040 --> 03:19:41,160
Speaker 1: This is this is a huge part of what their existence. Right.

3575
03:19:41,200 --> 03:19:43,280
Speaker 1: Their job is to ensure if there is one class

3576
03:19:43,280 --> 03:19:45,160
Speaker 1: of people who owns the factories in the fields and

3577
03:19:45,200 --> 03:19:47,440
Speaker 1: the grocery stores and the fast food chains and the

3578
03:19:47,520 --> 03:19:51,119
Speaker 1: fucking card dealerships, and that there is another class who

3579
03:19:51,200 --> 03:19:52,800
Speaker 1: was forced to work for them and have their labor

3580
03:19:52,840 --> 03:19:55,120
Speaker 1: stolen every day of their lives. And of course these

3581
03:19:55,160 --> 03:19:57,640
Speaker 1: sort of like faux pro cop, the pro cop like fox.

3582
03:19:57,680 --> 03:20:00,760
Speaker 1: Social democrats will never mention it, right, but these people's

3583
03:20:00,800 --> 03:20:04,040
Speaker 1: version of quote unquote socialism is one in which all

3584
03:20:04,160 --> 03:20:06,920
Speaker 1: that ship, all the stuff that makes things like all

3585
03:20:06,959 --> 03:20:09,120
Speaker 1: of the businesses, all of the corporations, all of the

3586
03:20:09,240 --> 03:20:11,240
Speaker 1: all of that ship is owned by capitalists and not

3587
03:20:11,320 --> 03:20:15,880
Speaker 1: the working class. They need those cops specifically to protect

3588
03:20:15,920 --> 03:20:18,560
Speaker 1: the property of the ruling class from you, right like that.

3589
03:20:18,720 --> 03:20:21,000
Speaker 1: That that is ultimately what this is about, the specter

3590
03:20:21,120 --> 03:20:24,520
Speaker 1: of crime. And and this is true whether it's coming

3591
03:20:24,560 --> 03:20:26,640
Speaker 1: from socialists or whether it's coming from the most like

3592
03:20:27,280 --> 03:20:31,640
Speaker 1: unbelievably deranged Blue Lives Matter, cop freak. It is about

3593
03:20:31,680 --> 03:20:35,760
Speaker 1: stopping you from taking what is yours. And that that's

3594
03:20:35,800 --> 03:20:37,920
Speaker 1: the end of part one. In part two, we're gonna

3595
03:20:38,000 --> 03:20:42,120
Speaker 1: look at the whole sort of background ideology that's running

3596
03:20:42,160 --> 03:20:47,680
Speaker 1: all of this, and it also sucks. So yeah, come

3597
03:20:47,720 --> 03:21:10,959
Speaker 1: back tomorrow for more news. Love it? Yeah, podcasting, Oh

3598
03:21:11,160 --> 03:21:13,879
Speaker 1: I love it. I love when we're talking to microfilms

3599
03:21:13,920 --> 03:21:19,879
Speaker 1: and people listen. Yeah, good for them. It's gonna outlive

3600
03:21:19,959 --> 03:21:26,000
Speaker 1: microblogging apparently. Yeah, okay, who could who could have thought?

3601
03:21:26,800 --> 03:21:31,720
Speaker 1: We've won? Guys? We are the last medium standing. Well,

3602
03:21:31,800 --> 03:21:33,920
Speaker 1: to be fair, I do think the majority of people

3603
03:21:34,000 --> 03:21:39,640
Speaker 1: on this call got got this job small part because

3604
03:21:39,720 --> 03:21:45,600
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, yeah it's tree. Look at where our

3605
03:21:45,680 --> 03:21:49,960
Speaker 1: posts of bought us here to this moment. On the

3606
03:21:50,040 --> 03:21:54,520
Speaker 1: podcast it could Happen Here podcast where we don't explain

3607
03:21:54,640 --> 03:21:58,800
Speaker 1: what the podcast is. That's right, yea, And yeah, the

3608
03:21:58,840 --> 03:22:02,680
Speaker 1: podcast also contain me, Christopher Wong, contains Garrison Davis, it

3609
03:22:02,720 --> 03:22:09,120
Speaker 1: contains James Stout m and allegedly Rebert. However, Evans is

3610
03:22:09,959 --> 03:22:12,800
Speaker 1: I think he's legitimately actually busy right now. He is.

3611
03:22:12,920 --> 03:22:15,320
Speaker 1: He is like recording something else. There's yeah, he's doing

3612
03:22:15,360 --> 03:22:16,720
Speaker 1: a marath and think but if you look at the

3613
03:22:16,760 --> 03:22:19,360
Speaker 1: Ihart page, it's only Robert. We have. We have a

3614
03:22:19,400 --> 03:22:23,000
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of podcasts on Yeah, anyways, on

3615
03:22:23,320 --> 03:22:26,560
Speaker 1: the Cool Zone Media. Yeah, on the Cool Zone Media.

3616
03:22:26,600 --> 03:22:30,800
Speaker 1: That's right. So, speaking of podcasts we've done on the

3617
03:22:30,840 --> 03:22:33,120
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, we did one that came out the

3618
03:22:33,200 --> 03:22:36,480
Speaker 1: one before this one, and we'll see it about it

3619
03:22:36,560 --> 03:22:38,360
Speaker 1: was it was about how a bunch of socialists want

3620
03:22:39,320 --> 03:22:46,160
Speaker 1: more cops. Yeah, so okay, I asked myself the question

3621
03:22:46,920 --> 03:22:50,960
Speaker 1: when I read this, why why do they want this?

3622
03:22:51,920 --> 03:22:56,200
Speaker 1: How did we get here? Because they're rich and they're scared? Yes,

3623
03:22:57,400 --> 03:22:59,960
Speaker 1: this is true, it's there's there's also sort of there's

3624
03:23:00,000 --> 03:23:03,119
Speaker 1: also sort of deeper roots to what's happening here. And okay,

3625
03:23:03,160 --> 03:23:05,800
Speaker 1: so like it is true that there's been a whole

3626
03:23:05,840 --> 03:23:08,200
Speaker 1: wave of people who were sort of nominally progressive or

3627
03:23:08,240 --> 03:23:10,800
Speaker 1: like socialistity dozens six, ten or two and seventeen who

3628
03:23:11,480 --> 03:23:13,800
Speaker 1: turned right in the past few years, particularly over ratio

3629
03:23:13,879 --> 03:23:18,040
Speaker 1: issues like Leafing, Grant Greenwald like more recently the t

3630
03:23:18,200 --> 03:23:21,440
Speaker 1: y T people like bush Ar Sakara's were doing crime

3631
03:23:21,480 --> 03:23:24,760
Speaker 1: wave ship like kind of recently, which was actually really funny.

3632
03:23:24,760 --> 03:23:26,760
Speaker 1: He had this tweet about how like, oh, the crime

3633
03:23:26,879 --> 03:23:29,520
Speaker 1: race is not actually down. There's a specific neighborhoods where

3634
03:23:29,560 --> 03:23:31,960
Speaker 1: the crime where people are poor, where the crime is up,

3635
03:23:31,959 --> 03:23:33,600
Speaker 1: and then you look at the data and that's exactly

3636
03:23:33,600 --> 03:23:37,400
Speaker 1: the opposite of what's happening. But okay, so, but this

3637
03:23:37,680 --> 03:23:39,960
Speaker 1: entire push for sort of more police is part of

3638
03:23:40,120 --> 03:23:42,600
Speaker 1: a broader political project that Donna Roused me and his

3639
03:23:42,680 --> 03:23:45,120
Speaker 1: sort of allies in Jocoban and etcetera, etcetera, been pushing

3640
03:23:45,160 --> 03:23:49,680
Speaker 1: for years now. And this sort of like political project

3641
03:23:50,000 --> 03:23:52,280
Speaker 1: is the class side of what's called the class versus

3642
03:23:52,400 --> 03:23:55,840
Speaker 1: race or the race versus class debate. So for people

3643
03:23:55,879 --> 03:23:58,160
Speaker 1: who were either weren't here for this or have like

3644
03:23:58,320 --> 03:24:02,920
Speaker 1: blissfully forgotten this, the race class debate was basically an

3645
03:24:03,000 --> 03:24:06,920
Speaker 1: argument about sort of the role of race in leftist organizing. Um.

3646
03:24:07,080 --> 03:24:10,200
Speaker 1: The argument was basically like, Okay, should we understand race

3647
03:24:10,400 --> 03:24:13,680
Speaker 1: is like a structural force in in the US that

3648
03:24:13,800 --> 03:24:17,480
Speaker 1: requires its own specific organizing around racial justice and liberation movements,

3649
03:24:17,680 --> 03:24:21,000
Speaker 1: or should be attempt to put class first and attempt

3650
03:24:21,040 --> 03:24:23,360
Speaker 1: to solve racism by appealing to the interests of the

3651
03:24:23,520 --> 03:24:27,080
Speaker 1: entire working class and only doing class based organizing. Um,

3652
03:24:27,600 --> 03:24:30,800
Speaker 1: there are broadly like three types of class first people. Weirdly,

3653
03:24:30,800 --> 03:24:33,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna see two of them here. Um, there are

3654
03:24:33,800 --> 03:24:36,680
Speaker 1: a very small number of very committed and very radical

3655
03:24:36,760 --> 03:24:39,640
Speaker 1: Marxists and like a small number of anarchists who think

3656
03:24:39,760 --> 03:24:42,480
Speaker 1: that like well, race was a product of class anyways,

3657
03:24:42,520 --> 03:24:44,039
Speaker 1: and so if you end the class system and abolished

3658
03:24:44,040 --> 03:24:47,240
Speaker 1: private property, that's the sort of like actual central like

3659
03:24:47,760 --> 03:24:51,080
Speaker 1: mechanism of oppression society. And if you do that, like

3660
03:24:52,400 --> 03:24:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, race will sort of fall apart, and so

3661
03:24:54,879 --> 03:25:00,120
Speaker 1: you know you should um whatever consciousness anyway, Yeah, like

3662
03:25:00,400 --> 03:25:02,520
Speaker 1: these people are wrong. I think they're less dangerous and

3663
03:25:02,520 --> 03:25:03,920
Speaker 1: the other kind of two people. But we're also gonna

3664
03:25:03,920 --> 03:25:06,960
Speaker 1: see one of these guys later. So there there's the

3665
03:25:07,000 --> 03:25:09,080
Speaker 1: people like call the like class with like a k

3666
03:25:10,160 --> 03:25:13,440
Speaker 1: people who are just straight up like racists like they

3667
03:25:13,480 --> 03:25:17,040
Speaker 1: are they are class with a kkk yeah right like

3668
03:25:17,120 --> 03:25:20,240
Speaker 1: they you know, the groups of socialists I've compared them to,

3669
03:25:20,480 --> 03:25:22,080
Speaker 1: or like the socialist who came to the US after

3670
03:25:22,120 --> 03:25:25,720
Speaker 1: Etty and we're like, oh, ship who cares like slavery,

3671
03:25:25,840 --> 03:25:28,080
Speaker 1: Like we we don't care about slavery. The actual thing

3672
03:25:28,240 --> 03:25:30,640
Speaker 1: that like is good for the working classes, stealing more

3673
03:25:30,720 --> 03:25:32,520
Speaker 1: land for indigenous people, and this is how we're going

3674
03:25:32,560 --> 03:25:35,800
Speaker 1: to solve the labor question. Or also the sort of

3675
03:25:35,920 --> 03:25:37,800
Speaker 1: like like the the people who were in the Nights

3676
03:25:37,800 --> 03:25:40,160
Speaker 1: of Labor, like the eighteen eighties, who were like, all right,

3677
03:25:40,200 --> 03:25:41,879
Speaker 1: we need to we need to defend labor the way

3678
03:25:41,879 --> 03:25:44,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna defend labors by technically cleansing the entire West

3679
03:25:44,560 --> 03:25:47,760
Speaker 1: coast of Chinese people like these are basically these guys

3680
03:25:47,879 --> 03:25:50,160
Speaker 1: right there, they're just straight up racists to want unions

3681
03:25:50,240 --> 03:25:53,920
Speaker 1: and healthcare. Um. They used to be a real faction

3682
03:25:54,000 --> 03:25:56,120
Speaker 1: in the d s a UM formed around just like

3683
03:25:56,200 --> 03:26:00,520
Speaker 1: absolutely dogshit subreddit called stupid pole Um. They used to

3684
03:26:00,520 --> 03:26:02,680
Speaker 1: be a bunch of them in Philadelphia and these kind

3685
03:26:02,720 --> 03:26:05,360
Speaker 1: of people like they were like red scares initial base

3686
03:26:05,920 --> 03:26:09,400
Speaker 1: and so by you know, this is like the by

3687
03:26:09,480 --> 03:26:13,160
Speaker 1: now like two, these people are almost entirely deranged trade

3688
03:26:13,200 --> 03:26:16,240
Speaker 1: cats who spent literally their entire time deep throwing Peter

3689
03:26:16,400 --> 03:26:20,680
Speaker 1: Field's boot. So they're kind of mostly like they're they're

3690
03:26:20,760 --> 03:26:23,160
Speaker 1: just right wingers now like that that's what's happened to

3691
03:26:23,200 --> 03:26:27,880
Speaker 1: these people. Um, good riddance fuck um. I yeah. And

3692
03:26:28,000 --> 03:26:30,880
Speaker 1: then there are people like ordinary used to be in

3693
03:26:30,920 --> 03:26:34,360
Speaker 1: Bosh carcent Kara who don't really want to end capitalism

3694
03:26:34,680 --> 03:26:37,400
Speaker 1: and think that socialism is just sort of like welfare

3695
03:26:37,480 --> 03:26:40,600
Speaker 1: states and some unions. And also and they also and

3696
03:26:40,680 --> 03:26:43,480
Speaker 1: this is sort of critical, tend to think that racial

3697
03:26:43,560 --> 03:26:46,240
Speaker 1: justice organizing is a distraction from their main goal of

3698
03:26:46,360 --> 03:26:49,600
Speaker 1: achieving socialism. And by achieving socialism, I mean electoralism, and

3699
03:26:49,680 --> 03:26:52,360
Speaker 1: by electoralism, I mean getting these people elected to office.

3700
03:26:53,280 --> 03:26:56,880
Speaker 1: I hate these people. Their politics sucks. I've been fighting

3701
03:26:56,920 --> 03:26:59,160
Speaker 1: them from like since I became a leftist. I've been

3702
03:26:59,160 --> 03:27:02,360
Speaker 1: at war with these bowl and to to get a

3703
03:27:02,480 --> 03:27:05,560
Speaker 1: sense of how we got from, you know what, what

3704
03:27:05,760 --> 03:27:08,480
Speaker 1: was legitimately in a lot of cases, what was at

3705
03:27:08,560 --> 03:27:10,720
Speaker 1: least legitimately in arguing about how to deal with racism

3706
03:27:11,040 --> 03:27:14,240
Speaker 1: to a bunch of socialists going, we need more cops.

3707
03:27:14,400 --> 03:27:17,080
Speaker 1: I want to take a look at a piece r

3708
03:27:17,959 --> 03:27:21,360
Speaker 1: Adam or Usami wrote in Catalyst with David Zachariah called

3709
03:27:21,440 --> 03:27:24,720
Speaker 1: the class path the racial Liberation, And I want to

3710
03:27:24,800 --> 03:27:26,720
Speaker 1: take a quote from its opening to give it a

3711
03:27:26,840 --> 03:27:29,480
Speaker 1: sense of people of like how awful this politics is.

3712
03:27:30,040 --> 03:27:31,360
Speaker 1: This is like like one of the sort of like

3713
03:27:31,440 --> 03:27:34,320
Speaker 1: opening statements about what what the's why they're taking the

3714
03:27:34,360 --> 03:27:37,680
Speaker 1: class side in the debate. We argue that the class

3715
03:27:37,760 --> 03:27:41,840
Speaker 1: race debate should center on one principal domain, the distribution

3716
03:27:41,959 --> 03:27:47,959
Speaker 1: of material resources. Now, Okay, at first glance, this seems

3717
03:27:48,040 --> 03:27:53,680
Speaker 1: kind of reasonable enough, But there's another incredibly important aspect

3718
03:27:53,760 --> 03:27:57,000
Speaker 1: of any attempt to grapple with racing class that Usumi

3719
03:27:57,080 --> 03:28:01,920
Speaker 1: is just ignoring entirely. And that's violets, right. Race. Race

3720
03:28:02,080 --> 03:28:04,480
Speaker 1: is not just a measure of economic inequality. It's an

3721
03:28:04,520 --> 03:28:08,879
Speaker 1: index of violence. And you know, racialization increases your risk

3722
03:28:08,920 --> 03:28:11,400
Speaker 1: of interperson inter personal violence, and increases your risk of

3723
03:28:11,440 --> 03:28:14,119
Speaker 1: sexual violence, and increases your risk of mass communal violence

3724
03:28:14,120 --> 03:28:17,199
Speaker 1: on lynching or sort of ethnic cleansing campaigns, and maybe

3725
03:28:17,280 --> 03:28:21,080
Speaker 1: most importantly for this whole argument, like being racialized dramatically

3726
03:28:21,200 --> 03:28:25,560
Speaker 1: increases the risk of suffering state violence. And this is

3727
03:28:25,600 --> 03:28:28,119
Speaker 1: a real problem for the sort of class first people

3728
03:28:28,200 --> 03:28:31,080
Speaker 1: because you know, something sort of multiple like multi racial

3729
03:28:31,120 --> 03:28:34,000
Speaker 1: working class electoral project won't do ship to prevent people

3730
03:28:34,480 --> 03:28:37,440
Speaker 1: from experiencing state violence just because there's welfare programs, you know,

3731
03:28:37,640 --> 03:28:39,280
Speaker 1: which we talked about this what this looks like in

3732
03:28:39,320 --> 03:28:42,680
Speaker 1: our Brazil episodes. Right, you actually have like legitimately a

3733
03:28:42,720 --> 03:28:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, like a sort of united multi racial working

3734
03:28:44,680 --> 03:28:48,480
Speaker 1: class at election social democratic governments and they enact anti

3735
03:28:48,520 --> 03:28:51,280
Speaker 1: poverty before performs and increase the size of the welfare state.

3736
03:28:51,640 --> 03:28:54,320
Speaker 1: And while this is happening, they also increase incarceration the

3737
03:28:54,360 --> 03:28:58,480
Speaker 1: incarcerated population by six and created a rated police killing

3738
03:28:58,520 --> 03:29:00,760
Speaker 1: that as eleven times higher than it is an US right.

3739
03:29:02,040 --> 03:29:04,879
Speaker 1: And this is the thing these people really don't want

3740
03:29:04,959 --> 03:29:07,240
Speaker 1: anyone to think about, which is that race is actually

3741
03:29:07,280 --> 03:29:12,120
Speaker 1: more complicated than economic inequality, which this entire politics is

3742
03:29:12,160 --> 03:29:14,640
Speaker 1: is dedicated to not seeing because class first politics, like

3743
03:29:14,720 --> 03:29:17,560
Speaker 1: a lot of what it really is about, amounts to

3744
03:29:17,720 --> 03:29:22,240
Speaker 1: a theoretical framework that gives you a way to argue

3745
03:29:22,280 --> 03:29:24,840
Speaker 1: that race is not an explanatory framework for literally anything,

3746
03:29:24,879 --> 03:29:26,960
Speaker 1: so you don't have to talk about it and anyone

3747
03:29:27,000 --> 03:29:28,960
Speaker 1: who talks about it is dividing the working class or

3748
03:29:29,000 --> 03:29:34,640
Speaker 1: some ship, and it, yeah, it fucking sucks. And you know,

3749
03:29:34,800 --> 03:29:36,600
Speaker 1: like one of one of the big sort of political

3750
03:29:36,680 --> 03:29:42,560
Speaker 1: violence things is massacrceration. And one of sort of donna

3751
03:29:42,640 --> 03:29:45,920
Speaker 1: is like political projects is arguing that massacrcepiration isn't about

3752
03:29:46,000 --> 03:29:52,640
Speaker 1: race at all, but it's actually about class, which so

3753
03:29:53,120 --> 03:29:56,200
Speaker 1: we're going to see somewhere bullshit, um, he wrote. He

3754
03:29:56,280 --> 03:29:58,760
Speaker 1: wrote an article in Catalyst called the Economic Origin the

3755
03:29:58,800 --> 03:30:02,840
Speaker 1: mass Incarceration a longside New Chicago professor John Clegg, and

3756
03:30:02,920 --> 03:30:06,560
Speaker 1: I have like I have an enormous special contempt for

3757
03:30:06,640 --> 03:30:09,320
Speaker 1: John Clegg for two reasons here. One because you know,

3758
03:30:09,400 --> 03:30:12,039
Speaker 1: a Donner is like an irredeemable Jocobin like soaked them

3759
03:30:12,120 --> 03:30:14,960
Speaker 1: hack right. Clegg is nominally was was part of the

3760
03:30:15,000 --> 03:30:17,880
Speaker 1: sort of the anglophan Barxist like ultra left right, like

3761
03:30:18,040 --> 03:30:19,959
Speaker 1: he he was one of the contributors to the sort

3762
03:30:20,000 --> 03:30:22,879
Speaker 1: of to to the ultra left theory journal like ultra

3763
03:30:22,920 --> 03:30:26,240
Speaker 1: left Barxist Communization Journal end Notes, which you know, like

3764
03:30:26,480 --> 03:30:27,760
Speaker 1: that influenced me a lot when I was like a

3765
03:30:27,840 --> 03:30:31,320
Speaker 1: tiny baby leftist. And he I also have an incredible

3766
03:30:31,320 --> 03:30:33,360
Speaker 1: amount of contempt here because he's a Harper Schmidt fellow

3767
03:30:33,400 --> 03:30:36,280
Speaker 1: at the University of Chicago. And here's the thing. Okay,

3768
03:30:36,280 --> 03:30:38,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what Harvard is like, right, I've never

3769
03:30:38,440 --> 03:30:40,560
Speaker 1: been there. I don't know what their campus is like.

3770
03:30:40,720 --> 03:30:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's like to be be on

3771
03:30:42,840 --> 03:30:46,039
Speaker 1: campus at Harvard. I know what you Chicago. The Chicago

3772
03:30:46,120 --> 03:30:47,920
Speaker 1: campus is like. I know, but there's a cop on

3773
03:30:48,000 --> 03:30:50,920
Speaker 1: every fucking corner. I know that the surveillance campus literally everywhere.

3774
03:30:51,160 --> 03:30:53,480
Speaker 1: I know if that they locked down the entire fucking campus,

3775
03:30:53,520 --> 03:30:55,920
Speaker 1: will hundreds of heavily armed cops storm through every building

3776
03:30:55,959 --> 03:30:58,240
Speaker 1: in every courtyard in the area every single time that

3777
03:30:58,320 --> 03:31:00,320
Speaker 1: kids steal something from a gaming store and runs for

3778
03:31:00,360 --> 03:31:02,600
Speaker 1: it until they've hunted them the fun down. And I

3779
03:31:02,720 --> 03:31:04,680
Speaker 1: know that, you know, I I know that the cops

3780
03:31:04,720 --> 03:31:06,560
Speaker 1: almost fucking killed me while I was there during a

3781
03:31:06,600 --> 03:31:09,440
Speaker 1: police chase. I know that John Clegg was on fucking

3782
03:31:09,520 --> 03:31:11,880
Speaker 1: campus when the Chicago Police Department shot a kid who

3783
03:31:11,959 --> 03:31:15,440
Speaker 1: was having a mental health crisis. And to to watch

3784
03:31:15,680 --> 03:31:19,040
Speaker 1: this ship every single fucking day and to make this

3785
03:31:19,200 --> 03:31:22,520
Speaker 1: kind of argument is just fucking unforgivable. It is. It

3786
03:31:22,640 --> 03:31:24,840
Speaker 1: is fucking atrocious. I I guess I should. I should

3787
03:31:24,840 --> 03:31:26,400
Speaker 1: explain this a little bit for people who do don't

3788
03:31:26,480 --> 03:31:29,520
Speaker 1: understand this. So, the University of Chicago is like in

3789
03:31:29,600 --> 03:31:32,040
Speaker 1: the middle of the South side of Chicago. It's like

3790
03:31:32,160 --> 03:31:34,959
Speaker 1: the nigh like most neighborhoods around it are like black.

3791
03:31:35,080 --> 03:31:37,039
Speaker 1: And then there is just this fucking university they've planted

3792
03:31:37,080 --> 03:31:39,400
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. And this college has the

3793
03:31:39,400 --> 03:31:42,440
Speaker 1: world's largest private police force. There's the also the regular

3794
03:31:42,520 --> 03:31:45,840
Speaker 1: fucking cpds around there. There are like for like blocks

3795
03:31:45,879 --> 03:31:48,600
Speaker 1: and like like through other neighborhoods there were just Chicago

3796
03:31:48,640 --> 03:31:52,200
Speaker 1: police officers there. There are fucking CPD cops everywhere. It

3797
03:31:52,360 --> 03:31:56,720
Speaker 1: is a fucking bibilitorized hell hall. And yeah, and you know,

3798
03:31:56,920 --> 03:31:59,880
Speaker 1: like it is a place where like the way that

3799
03:32:00,080 --> 03:32:02,600
Speaker 1: race functions in the US is blindingly fucking obvious. You

3800
03:32:02,680 --> 03:32:06,280
Speaker 1: can you can immediately understand it by looking, Like you

3801
03:32:06,680 --> 03:32:09,280
Speaker 1: walk outside your fucking dorm, you look at the cop,

3802
03:32:09,520 --> 03:32:11,480
Speaker 1: and you look at how the cop treats people depending

3803
03:32:11,480 --> 03:32:15,560
Speaker 1: on what the race is. Right, it is so unbelievably obvious. However,

3804
03:32:15,760 --> 03:32:18,560
Speaker 1: Comma in this article Clagg, it is to me are

3805
03:32:18,560 --> 03:32:21,080
Speaker 1: going to argue that mass incarceration is actually a product

3806
03:32:21,200 --> 03:32:24,840
Speaker 1: of class policy resulting from a lack of social democracy

3807
03:32:24,920 --> 03:32:28,199
Speaker 1: and underdevelopment resulting from a transition from an agrarian economy

3808
03:32:28,240 --> 03:32:32,560
Speaker 1: to an industrial economy in the in the century, and

3809
03:32:32,800 --> 03:32:35,880
Speaker 1: the subsequent mass migration of black people north. Like what

3810
03:32:38,120 --> 03:32:43,760
Speaker 1: kind of a grarian economy? We have to watch economy?

3811
03:32:43,920 --> 03:32:50,400
Speaker 1: How much paid? It's like it's like the basic argument

3812
03:32:50,800 --> 03:32:53,560
Speaker 1: that they're gonna make is that, like, well, so there

3813
03:32:53,560 --> 03:32:54,920
Speaker 1: are a bunch of people who had been slaves and

3814
03:32:54,959 --> 03:32:57,400
Speaker 1: then they became not slaves, and then a bunch of

3815
03:32:57,400 --> 03:33:00,200
Speaker 1: them started migrating north. But because there was this mass migration,

3816
03:33:00,200 --> 03:33:01,959
Speaker 1: all these people showed up to the like showed up

3817
03:33:01,959 --> 03:33:04,560
Speaker 1: to these cities where there was no infrastructure, and then

3818
03:33:04,600 --> 03:33:06,600
Speaker 1: so there was a bunch of crime, and then because

3819
03:33:06,600 --> 03:33:10,640
Speaker 1: of the crime, there was mass incarceration, which is, okay,

3820
03:33:10,640 --> 03:33:12,720
Speaker 1: we're going to get some war into this. But before

3821
03:33:12,760 --> 03:33:15,960
Speaker 1: we go into served the reactionary part of this article, right,

3822
03:33:17,000 --> 03:33:19,240
Speaker 1: you have to understand that when these people say that

3823
03:33:19,360 --> 03:33:23,080
Speaker 1: this is a a like a class based policy, like

3824
03:33:23,440 --> 03:33:25,840
Speaker 1: class here does not mean the same thing that it

3825
03:33:25,920 --> 03:33:28,440
Speaker 1: means for like you know, a regular person who thinks

3826
03:33:28,480 --> 03:33:31,039
Speaker 1: about class, or like you know, a Marxist which again

3827
03:33:31,160 --> 03:33:34,199
Speaker 1: both these people nominally are. Um. Here's from the journal Specter,

3828
03:33:34,240 --> 03:33:36,680
Speaker 1: which a really good sort of critique of of this

3829
03:33:36,800 --> 03:33:41,440
Speaker 1: whole absolutely dogshit article. Quote Clegg and usums claim that

3830
03:33:41,640 --> 03:33:45,560
Speaker 1: class is essential to understanding mass incarceration amounts to a

3831
03:33:45,680 --> 03:33:50,480
Speaker 1: repackaging of a widely understood fact as revelatory insight. And

3832
03:33:50,600 --> 03:33:53,760
Speaker 1: while they titled their article quote the Economic Origins and

3833
03:33:53,800 --> 03:33:57,560
Speaker 1: mass Incarceration, they never delve further into class and a

3834
03:33:57,640 --> 03:34:02,520
Speaker 1: Marxist or even critical sense. Instead, they use educational attainment

3835
03:34:02,680 --> 03:34:06,000
Speaker 1: data as a proxy. They note that a large portrait

3836
03:34:06,080 --> 03:34:09,400
Speaker 1: of people who are imprisoned have low levels of educational entertainment.

3837
03:34:09,480 --> 03:34:12,000
Speaker 1: And I I'm glad to know that everyone on this

3838
03:34:12,080 --> 03:34:14,720
Speaker 1: call who does the exact same job as me, we're

3839
03:34:14,760 --> 03:34:18,520
Speaker 1: all from different classes. Congratulations, James, you are now the bourgeois.

3840
03:34:18,520 --> 03:34:21,160
Speaker 1: The congratulations Garrison, you're not proletariat, I might guess, the

3841
03:34:21,240 --> 03:34:25,880
Speaker 1: labor aristocracy. Why I'm here to expropriate the surplus value

3842
03:34:25,959 --> 03:34:32,560
Speaker 1: from your labor gyeah? Yeah, And if you get to prison,

3843
03:34:32,680 --> 03:34:37,080
Speaker 1: it's it's my fault. Yeah, Like I I just okay,

3844
03:34:37,600 --> 03:34:42,280
Speaker 1: So like what an asshole? What would ridiculous fucking claim? Yeah?

3845
03:34:42,480 --> 03:34:44,720
Speaker 1: And it's like like these okay, so like like it

3846
03:34:44,840 --> 03:34:46,600
Speaker 1: was some these like the Jocobin people do this all

3847
03:34:46,640 --> 03:34:48,400
Speaker 1: the time, right, Like they had this they made this

3848
03:34:48,440 --> 03:34:50,520
Speaker 1: famous study about the people who vote for Trump that

3849
03:34:50,720 --> 03:34:52,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's people people who voted for Trump

3850
03:34:52,959 --> 03:34:55,240
Speaker 1: didn't like working class areas and the game woarding class

3851
03:34:55,440 --> 03:34:59,320
Speaker 1: was by education data. And then also they didn't go

3852
03:34:59,520 --> 03:35:01,360
Speaker 1: because it's up like this is actually true, right there

3853
03:35:01,400 --> 03:35:02,720
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who vote with Trump

3854
03:35:02,760 --> 03:35:05,039
Speaker 1: for working class areas. It turns out who those people

3855
03:35:05,080 --> 03:35:07,240
Speaker 1: are are the small business owners who work class areas.

3856
03:35:08,120 --> 03:35:10,960
Speaker 1: They didn't fucking go grand your love, so that you

3857
03:35:11,040 --> 03:35:12,560
Speaker 1: know they do this ship all the time, right, and

3858
03:35:12,800 --> 03:35:16,480
Speaker 1: this is the kind of analysis that like like proxy

3859
03:35:16,840 --> 03:35:20,400
Speaker 1: for class. It's like it's a classic fallacious thing. Yeah,

3860
03:35:20,480 --> 03:35:24,120
Speaker 1: like like what's his name, Nicholas Christoff, but yeah he

3861
03:35:24,320 --> 03:35:27,000
Speaker 1: did this too, also like like this is this is

3862
03:35:27,040 --> 03:35:30,280
Speaker 1: this is We're we're getting fucking Christoff level analysis out

3863
03:35:30,320 --> 03:35:36,480
Speaker 1: of these supposed Marxists and like, okay, so all right.

3864
03:35:36,640 --> 03:35:39,280
Speaker 1: The curious thing here is that clag at least on

3865
03:35:39,320 --> 03:35:41,800
Speaker 1: an intellectual level, knows better than this, right, Like he

3866
03:35:41,959 --> 03:35:43,800
Speaker 1: votes he wrote for end notes and notes has a

3867
03:35:43,879 --> 03:35:47,000
Speaker 1: very sophisticated class analysis. But if you're actually interested in

3868
03:35:47,040 --> 03:35:49,120
Speaker 1: the sweeping arc of the history of the proletariat, you

3869
03:35:49,240 --> 03:35:51,400
Speaker 1: can't make the kinds of arguments that Clagg is making

3870
03:35:51,480 --> 03:35:54,720
Speaker 1: in this thing. And so, you know, because because he's

3871
03:35:54,760 --> 03:35:56,400
Speaker 1: trying to make this argument, users used to this like

3872
03:35:56,680 --> 03:36:00,200
Speaker 1: like just absolutely like like seventh rate like fucking New

3873
03:36:00,280 --> 03:36:04,480
Speaker 1: York Time is pundit level analysis. Yeah, it's like okay,

3874
03:36:05,120 --> 03:36:07,560
Speaker 1: you know, like there there, it's it's this is really

3875
03:36:07,600 --> 03:36:09,760
Speaker 1: sad because for actual Marxists and not sort of like

3876
03:36:10,040 --> 03:36:13,520
Speaker 1: liberal bourgeois hacks doing like fucking New York Times bullshit.

3877
03:36:14,280 --> 03:36:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, classes about ownership, right, It's about who owns

3878
03:36:16,720 --> 03:36:18,560
Speaker 1: the means of production and who's forced to work for them.

3879
03:36:19,040 --> 03:36:21,600
Speaker 1: And you know, okay, so you have this, you have

3880
03:36:21,680 --> 03:36:23,720
Speaker 1: the proletariat or like the working class, where the people

3881
03:36:23,720 --> 03:36:25,360
Speaker 1: who own nothing and are thus forced to sell their

3882
03:36:25,440 --> 03:36:27,560
Speaker 1: labor for people who do who do own stuff. Right.

3883
03:36:28,600 --> 03:36:31,640
Speaker 1: But this also presents a problem for this entire argument,

3884
03:36:31,760 --> 03:36:34,440
Speaker 1: because if you actually want to do class analysis, you

3885
03:36:34,520 --> 03:36:37,039
Speaker 1: have to understand that race plays a major roland who

3886
03:36:37,120 --> 03:36:39,240
Speaker 1: even gets to become part of the regular proletariat in

3887
03:36:39,240 --> 03:36:42,840
Speaker 1: the first place, because most there's a lot of people

3888
03:36:42,920 --> 03:36:44,959
Speaker 1: through the development of the course of capitalism who fucking

3889
03:36:45,080 --> 03:36:47,959
Speaker 1: never even got to become wage labors because they were enslaved,

3890
03:36:47,959 --> 03:36:50,400
Speaker 1: they were exterminated, they were turned to debt peons and

3891
03:36:50,840 --> 03:36:53,520
Speaker 1: oh wait, guess who fucking got that ship? Oh yeah,

3892
03:36:53,560 --> 03:36:56,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't white people. And you know, if if, if

3893
03:36:56,480 --> 03:36:58,480
Speaker 1: you're if you're gonna write and if you're gonna be

3894
03:36:58,560 --> 03:37:01,520
Speaker 1: writing arguments and like playing the rise of like a

3895
03:37:01,680 --> 03:37:04,560
Speaker 1: mass system of enslavement, you might want to think about this.

3896
03:37:04,760 --> 03:37:12,200
Speaker 1: But no, okay, So do you know what else is

3897
03:37:12,240 --> 03:37:17,160
Speaker 1: responsible for a mass serious a mass system of enslavement? Uh?

3898
03:37:17,280 --> 03:37:21,720
Speaker 1: The advertising and how they affect our brains. Yeah, that one.

3899
03:37:21,879 --> 03:37:25,360
Speaker 1: I was going to go with Stalin, but the same

3900
03:37:25,879 --> 03:37:29,520
Speaker 1: same day if honestly, yeah, Stalent first mass marketer so

3901
03:37:29,840 --> 03:37:32,840
Speaker 1: true famously Yeah it Stalin. I'll saying you're me okay,

3902
03:37:32,879 --> 03:37:36,080
Speaker 1: if you're asking, Okay, we're back, and we're back to

3903
03:37:36,120 --> 03:37:40,040
Speaker 1: talk about the other argument of the economic origin of

3904
03:37:40,080 --> 03:37:43,960
Speaker 1: massive carecederation, which is that the argument that massive carcederation

3905
03:37:44,040 --> 03:37:49,200
Speaker 1: happened because people were legitimately scared about crime, Like this

3906
03:37:49,360 --> 03:37:52,560
Speaker 1: is their argument. Their argument is that crime went up

3907
03:37:53,000 --> 03:37:55,760
Speaker 1: people demanded less crime, and then the government did it,

3908
03:37:59,160 --> 03:38:02,320
Speaker 1: Like wait did they did they give an outsis to

3909
03:38:02,400 --> 03:38:07,200
Speaker 1: the class of people. Okay, they make this fun argument

3910
03:38:07,320 --> 03:38:09,560
Speaker 1: that both black and white people were demanding the end

3911
03:38:09,600 --> 03:38:13,000
Speaker 1: of crime, which is sort of true. But you know,

3912
03:38:13,120 --> 03:38:16,920
Speaker 1: if you look at what like like yeah, like obviously,

3913
03:38:16,959 --> 03:38:19,280
Speaker 1: and this is the thing, right, Like, you can find

3914
03:38:19,360 --> 03:38:21,879
Speaker 1: people of any race who can who will take basically

3915
03:38:21,920 --> 03:38:24,840
Speaker 1: any political position, and so if if you go looking

3916
03:38:24,959 --> 03:38:26,840
Speaker 1: for like black people who are tough on crime, you

3917
03:38:26,879 --> 03:38:28,800
Speaker 1: can find it. Right, there are black politicians who are

3918
03:38:28,840 --> 03:38:31,600
Speaker 1: like tough on crime. Right, but that's also not the

3919
03:38:31,680 --> 03:38:35,520
Speaker 1: reason why massacretiation happened, Like I'm sorry, And also, like

3920
03:38:35,879 --> 03:38:37,760
Speaker 1: you know, if you and you know that there was

3921
03:38:37,760 --> 03:38:39,400
Speaker 1: there was also there are people who who like weren't

3922
03:38:39,440 --> 03:38:41,880
Speaker 1: tough on crime, people who were like talking about who

3923
03:38:41,959 --> 03:38:45,560
Speaker 1: were talking about trying to end like sort of like

3924
03:38:46,080 --> 03:38:47,879
Speaker 1: like violent spikes. But if you look at what they

3925
03:38:47,920 --> 03:38:50,840
Speaker 1: were saying, it was stuff like we want the police

3926
03:38:50,920 --> 03:38:56,160
Speaker 1: to like respect human rights instead of property rights, and uh,

3927
03:38:56,640 --> 03:38:59,360
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so I yeah, this is this is

3928
03:38:59,440 --> 03:39:04,400
Speaker 1: just sort of silly, right yeah, But but but the

3929
03:39:04,959 --> 03:39:06,720
Speaker 1: point of this is that this is basically This is

3930
03:39:06,760 --> 03:39:09,800
Speaker 1: their full on broadside against abolitionism as like a body

3931
03:39:09,879 --> 03:39:12,840
Speaker 1: of work, right, it's a sort of modern abolitionism. Um,

3932
03:39:13,080 --> 03:39:17,240
Speaker 1: it's directly criticizing Michelle Alexander's The New drym Crow mass

3933
03:39:17,280 --> 03:39:20,160
Speaker 1: incarceration in the Age of Color Blindness. And it's also

3934
03:39:20,240 --> 03:39:22,440
Speaker 1: like a volley basically against anyone who's trying to explain

3935
03:39:22,480 --> 03:39:26,720
Speaker 1: mass incarceration through race. And so what they argue is

3936
03:39:26,800 --> 03:39:30,840
Speaker 1: that crime increase because there wasn't a strong labor movement

3937
03:39:30,879 --> 03:39:34,199
Speaker 1: to solve the problem that like caused solve the problems

3938
03:39:34,240 --> 03:39:37,600
Speaker 1: that cause crime with economic like reistribution, So the state

3939
03:39:37,720 --> 03:39:40,160
Speaker 1: turned to like a cheaper option, which is prisons. And

3940
03:39:41,760 --> 03:39:44,960
Speaker 1: is it a cheap proprition? Well, okay, so they're they're

3941
03:39:45,120 --> 03:39:49,520
Speaker 1: they're not wrong in this, Like there is some truth here, right,

3942
03:39:49,600 --> 03:39:52,959
Speaker 1: which is that there is a reason that mass incarceration

3943
03:39:53,000 --> 03:39:55,480
Speaker 1: started spiking when capitalism went into crisis in the seventies

3944
03:39:55,480 --> 03:39:58,359
Speaker 1: and eighties. And it is actually it is actually genuinely

3945
03:39:58,440 --> 03:40:00,240
Speaker 1: cheaper for for for the boys where you need to

3946
03:40:00,320 --> 03:40:01,920
Speaker 1: run a prison state that it is to run a

3947
03:40:02,000 --> 03:40:06,320
Speaker 1: welfare state. But and and this is the important part, right,

3948
03:40:08,040 --> 03:40:11,600
Speaker 1: both the welfare state and the prison complex are different,

3949
03:40:11,600 --> 03:40:14,160
Speaker 1: are just different forms of kind of insurgency it used

3950
03:40:14,200 --> 03:40:17,160
Speaker 1: to be. Who is a social democrat is ideologically incapable

3951
03:40:17,200 --> 03:40:20,200
Speaker 1: of understanding this. His his entire ideology is that like

3952
03:40:21,640 --> 03:40:23,360
Speaker 1: is based on the fact that the welfare state is

3953
03:40:23,400 --> 03:40:26,040
Speaker 1: the end point of socialism. But this is completely backwards, right.

3954
03:40:26,400 --> 03:40:29,600
Speaker 1: The welfare state and and social democracy were first implemented

3955
03:40:29,680 --> 03:40:32,840
Speaker 1: by Bismarck, like specifically as a way to buy workers off,

3956
03:40:32,879 --> 03:40:34,800
Speaker 1: to stop them from carrying out a socialist revolution and

3957
03:40:34,879 --> 03:40:37,200
Speaker 1: actually seizing the pro like seizing the property of the

3958
03:40:37,240 --> 03:40:39,160
Speaker 1: ruling class and using the production for the benefit of

3959
03:40:39,240 --> 03:40:41,680
Speaker 1: mankind and not profit. That is why the ship the

3960
03:40:41,800 --> 03:40:45,960
Speaker 1: welfare state was invented. Like that in practice, if you

3961
03:40:46,000 --> 03:40:48,439
Speaker 1: go back to Edmund Burke right in the French Revolution,

3962
03:40:48,680 --> 03:40:51,200
Speaker 1: reform to preserve the idea that like, we have to

3963
03:40:51,240 --> 03:40:54,160
Speaker 1: give people these little these little slices here and there,

3964
03:40:54,480 --> 03:40:57,240
Speaker 1: give them a treat, and then then then then they

3965
03:40:57,280 --> 03:41:00,080
Speaker 1: will never come in and take the cake. And if

3966
03:41:00,080 --> 03:41:02,040
Speaker 1: you read these people, they're really explicit about this, Like

3967
03:41:02,080 --> 03:41:04,520
Speaker 1: they will just aquidly say we're buying off the working class.

3968
03:41:04,760 --> 03:41:08,800
Speaker 1: But these absolute clowns have like somehow convinced themselves that

3969
03:41:08,920 --> 03:41:14,840
Speaker 1: this is what socialism actually is. Social socialism is when

3970
03:41:14,959 --> 03:41:20,440
Speaker 1: socialism is when you confuse table scraps for treats, and

3971
03:41:20,520 --> 03:41:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, and and this this comes to sort of

3972
03:41:22,760 --> 03:41:25,480
Speaker 1: the other thing that that that these people can't understand,

3973
03:41:25,520 --> 03:41:27,879
Speaker 1: which is that social democracy was a class compromise. Right.

3974
03:41:28,640 --> 03:41:30,400
Speaker 1: There was a deal that the capitalist of the working

3975
03:41:30,440 --> 03:41:32,160
Speaker 1: class agree to. And when I when I say they

3976
03:41:32,160 --> 03:41:34,960
Speaker 1: agree to this, right, like, this isn't just sort of

3977
03:41:35,040 --> 03:41:37,240
Speaker 1: like an like it kind of is an abstract deal.

3978
03:41:37,400 --> 03:41:40,240
Speaker 1: But there are also very literal deals. Right. There's this

3979
03:41:40,280 --> 03:41:42,200
Speaker 1: thing called the Treaty of Detroit, which is this massive,

3980
03:41:42,520 --> 03:41:45,920
Speaker 1: basically set of negotiations. And then are like agreements that

3981
03:41:45,959 --> 03:41:48,800
Speaker 1: are made between the US government like like a huge

3982
03:41:48,840 --> 03:41:50,880
Speaker 1: portion of organized labor in the auto industry and the

3983
03:41:50,920 --> 03:41:54,720
Speaker 1: auto companies, right, which which basically like the substance of

3984
03:41:54,720 --> 03:41:56,800
Speaker 1: the Treaty of Detroit was like if you give us

3985
03:41:56,840 --> 03:41:59,360
Speaker 1: all of this welfare ship and benefits ship, right, we

3986
03:41:59,440 --> 03:42:02,080
Speaker 1: won't we will stop constantly going on strike. These are

3987
03:42:02,160 --> 03:42:05,400
Speaker 1: explicit deals. They're explicitly being negotiated between these massive trade

3988
03:42:05,480 --> 03:42:09,280
Speaker 1: unions and and like the capitalist who owned companies by

3989
03:42:09,280 --> 03:42:12,040
Speaker 1: the American government, and so they get this deal on

3990
03:42:12,040 --> 03:42:13,840
Speaker 1: the deal is you get unions and pension and a

3991
03:42:13,920 --> 03:42:16,040
Speaker 1: vacation and like health care, as long as you don't

3992
03:42:16,120 --> 03:42:18,400
Speaker 1: like seize control of factories and run them for themselves.

3993
03:42:19,200 --> 03:42:22,720
Speaker 1: And this held from sort of like the fifties through

3994
03:42:22,760 --> 03:42:26,760
Speaker 1: the seventies. But partially this held because also the US specifically,

3995
03:42:26,800 --> 03:42:29,640
Speaker 1: which is really really rich as economy was growing really fast.

3996
03:42:30,640 --> 03:42:33,520
Speaker 1: But you know, but by by the by the suddenly

3997
03:42:33,520 --> 03:42:35,959
Speaker 1: the rate of prophet is starting to collapse, and suddenly

3998
03:42:36,040 --> 03:42:38,600
Speaker 1: it does actually become possible to both pay for the

3999
03:42:38,680 --> 03:42:41,280
Speaker 1: welfare state and have capital turned into war capital at

4000
03:42:41,280 --> 03:42:44,320
Speaker 1: the same time. And you know what happens is full

4001
03:42:44,400 --> 03:42:46,200
Speaker 1: on class war over the course of seventies and the eighties,

4002
03:42:46,240 --> 03:42:49,640
Speaker 1: and you know, the capitalists win the class war. And

4003
03:42:49,760 --> 03:42:51,560
Speaker 1: the product of this, and this is true not just

4004
03:42:51,720 --> 03:42:53,200
Speaker 1: in the U s but in in like a lot

4005
03:42:53,240 --> 03:42:55,720
Speaker 1: of other neoliberal countries too, is that there is a

4006
03:42:55,879 --> 03:42:58,520
Speaker 1: massive military that this the state is sort of stripped

4007
03:42:58,520 --> 03:43:01,880
Speaker 1: down to nothing in tern of like providing services, but

4008
03:43:02,040 --> 03:43:04,240
Speaker 1: there's this massive build up of the military and police

4009
03:43:04,320 --> 03:43:08,120
Speaker 1: and also prisons. And so you know, this isn't some

4010
03:43:08,240 --> 03:43:09,640
Speaker 1: sense that like if you if you want a class

4011
03:43:09,640 --> 03:43:11,680
Speaker 1: based explanation of mass incarceration, like this is part of

4012
03:43:12,080 --> 03:43:14,000
Speaker 1: that's a big part of what's going on. It's also

4013
03:43:14,080 --> 03:43:16,320
Speaker 1: true that in the US, insofar as there was sort

4014
03:43:16,360 --> 03:43:19,120
Speaker 1: of a revolutionary force, it was black people doing like

4015
03:43:19,879 --> 03:43:23,640
Speaker 1: like doing the panthers, doing the like blanking on it,

4016
03:43:23,879 --> 03:43:26,960
Speaker 1: doing the Black Liberation Army, and this meant that sort

4017
03:43:26,959 --> 03:43:28,760
Speaker 1: of the sort of kind of revolution to this was

4018
03:43:28,840 --> 03:43:32,840
Speaker 1: specifically about deploying the sort of like like they're deploying

4019
03:43:32,920 --> 03:43:36,199
Speaker 1: the state against these people because yeah, like this movement

4020
03:43:36,280 --> 03:43:39,360
Speaker 1: is actively trying to destroy capitalism by destroying the races

4021
03:43:39,720 --> 03:43:43,840
Speaker 1: like police apparatus, and this I guess at the same

4022
03:43:43,879 --> 03:43:47,040
Speaker 1: time period like aim for instance. Yeah, and you know,

4023
03:43:47,200 --> 03:43:49,520
Speaker 1: so the ruling class sort of loses their minds and

4024
03:43:49,800 --> 03:43:51,240
Speaker 1: this is this is also this is also part of

4025
03:43:51,280 --> 03:43:53,760
Speaker 1: what's happening here. But the problem is the sort of

4026
03:43:53,840 --> 03:43:58,080
Speaker 1: Jocobin cop freaks like need the police for their like

4027
03:43:58,240 --> 03:44:00,760
Speaker 1: social democratic hell world that they want to build, and

4028
03:44:00,879 --> 03:44:03,680
Speaker 1: so they can't have any like it is it is

4029
03:44:03,680 --> 03:44:06,480
Speaker 1: incredibly structurally dangerous for them. For people to be arguing that,

4030
03:44:06,600 --> 03:44:09,760
Speaker 1: like the police are inherently a force of like systemic

4031
03:44:09,879 --> 03:44:14,520
Speaker 1: racial oppression because they want them around yeah, and so

4032
03:44:14,680 --> 03:44:19,560
Speaker 1: they do all this. Yeah, and you know, Clegg meanwhile,

4033
03:44:19,680 --> 03:44:21,800
Speaker 1: especially I can tell, just doesn't want to use race

4034
03:44:22,000 --> 03:44:25,280
Speaker 1: as like an explanation for ship Like they literally argue

4035
03:44:25,320 --> 03:44:27,160
Speaker 1: in this in this thing, like in this in this

4036
03:44:27,360 --> 03:44:29,960
Speaker 1: article that white flight was actually just capital flight and

4037
03:44:30,080 --> 03:44:34,560
Speaker 1: wasn't about racism. Good, And they just they're they're doing

4038
03:44:34,600 --> 03:44:36,800
Speaker 1: this entire thing about right this our political economy of

4039
03:44:37,440 --> 03:44:40,440
Speaker 1: the city, and they just they never mentioned they're so

4040
03:44:40,600 --> 03:44:43,320
Speaker 1: ruthlessly committed to their program of not talking about racism,

4041
03:44:43,320 --> 03:44:47,320
Speaker 1: but don't even mention redlining. It's like like they've managed

4042
03:44:47,360 --> 03:44:49,960
Speaker 1: to go to the right of like the Libertarian Party

4043
03:44:50,040 --> 03:44:57,880
Speaker 1: on race. It's like them to the right. So I'm

4044
03:44:57,920 --> 03:45:01,440
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna read more from the Spector article. That's

4045
03:45:01,440 --> 03:45:04,640
Speaker 1: like yelling at these people considering their investments in the

4046
03:45:04,760 --> 03:45:07,880
Speaker 1: category of violent crime. Clegg and used to be seemed

4047
03:45:07,920 --> 03:45:12,400
Speaker 1: curiously serene about the practices that upheld segregation. They would

4048
03:45:12,400 --> 03:45:15,520
Speaker 1: have us believe that such tactics are simply quote cast

4049
03:45:15,560 --> 03:45:19,720
Speaker 1: based remedies of exclusion, and that quote such strategies were rational,

4050
03:45:19,879 --> 03:45:24,200
Speaker 1: even if suboptimal in the long run, effectively rationalizing and

4051
03:45:24,280 --> 03:45:31,240
Speaker 1: apologizing for racism. So this is great. And then they

4052
03:45:31,560 --> 03:45:34,440
Speaker 1: capped this off with this giant, like swelling crescendo of

4053
03:45:34,480 --> 03:45:38,360
Speaker 1: an argument about how the left can't ignore crime. And

4054
03:45:39,280 --> 03:45:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so this is an argument with political consequences, right,

4055
03:45:43,600 --> 03:45:45,320
Speaker 1: And you can see those consequences in that in the

4056
03:45:46,160 --> 03:45:50,000
Speaker 1: cops article we were talking about yesterday. Um here, here,

4057
03:45:50,080 --> 03:45:52,800
Speaker 1: here's a quote from that article. This figure shows the

4058
03:45:52,879 --> 03:45:55,480
Speaker 1: same prisoner and police data as shown in figure one,

4059
03:45:55,560 --> 03:45:58,280
Speaker 1: but this time denominated by the level of homicide rather

4060
03:45:58,320 --> 03:46:02,640
Speaker 1: than the population amor because outlying incarceration look rate looks

4061
03:46:02,720 --> 03:46:05,720
Speaker 1: normal given the level of serious crime, and now the

4062
03:46:05,879 --> 03:46:08,560
Speaker 1: level of policing in the United States appears exceptionally low

4063
03:46:08,640 --> 03:46:12,840
Speaker 1: compared to other countries. So okay, you can see the

4064
03:46:12,879 --> 03:46:16,879
Speaker 1: line of argument here, right, It goes like mass incarceration

4065
03:46:17,040 --> 03:46:19,600
Speaker 1: isn't about race, it's actually about class, and actually it's

4066
03:46:19,640 --> 03:46:22,760
Speaker 1: really about crime. And then it goes from the crime

4067
03:46:22,879 --> 03:46:24,840
Speaker 1: to oh, well, this is about crime too. We need

4068
03:46:24,920 --> 03:46:27,400
Speaker 1: to actually do something about crime. And then that turns

4069
03:46:27,440 --> 03:46:29,160
Speaker 1: into the only thing we can do about crimes, have

4070
03:46:29,240 --> 03:46:35,640
Speaker 1: more cops, you know, and and and the other part

4071
03:46:35,680 --> 03:46:39,840
Speaker 1: of this, right, it goes back to the thing about like, okay,

4072
03:46:39,959 --> 03:46:41,480
Speaker 1: the thing about like that, you know, and this is

4073
03:46:41,480 --> 03:46:44,040
Speaker 1: something that Garrison was talking about yesterday, right like the

4074
03:46:44,440 --> 03:46:46,440
Speaker 1: way in which you can only think the level of

4075
03:46:46,520 --> 03:46:48,920
Speaker 1: policing in the US is exceptionally low, is is if

4076
03:46:48,959 --> 03:46:53,000
Speaker 1: you never interacted with a cop. And yes, this is

4077
03:46:53,040 --> 03:46:56,280
Speaker 1: a deliberate thing, right the sort of Dracobin cadre of

4078
03:46:56,440 --> 03:46:59,280
Speaker 1: like faux marx Is, like their entire political project was

4079
03:46:59,680 --> 03:47:02,720
Speaker 1: really originally was driving off the anarchists you found it Occupy,

4080
03:47:03,400 --> 03:47:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, drinking like and driving these people into the

4081
03:47:05,440 --> 03:47:07,680
Speaker 1: political wilderness. It is placed it with their sort of

4082
03:47:07,720 --> 03:47:10,160
Speaker 1: beer credit cops socialism. Right like what one of one

4083
03:47:10,200 --> 03:47:12,320
Speaker 1: of the first like big Jocobin articles was a giant

4084
03:47:12,360 --> 03:47:14,760
Speaker 1: thing about why this Zapatitis aren't model for the American

4085
03:47:14,879 --> 03:47:19,800
Speaker 1: left because right like this is that these people have

4086
03:47:20,120 --> 03:47:23,240
Speaker 1: been anti anarchists like to their core, and again because

4087
03:47:23,240 --> 03:47:24,560
Speaker 1: they need cops, they need to get rid of the

4088
03:47:24,560 --> 03:47:26,720
Speaker 1: people who hate the cops. Like again, the people who

4089
03:47:26,760 --> 03:47:29,120
Speaker 1: were actually on the street street Occupy, who have seen

4090
03:47:29,160 --> 03:47:31,920
Speaker 1: ship like for example, the bloody stains on the wall

4091
03:47:31,959 --> 03:47:34,240
Speaker 1: outside of police holding pens where the cops smashed the

4092
03:47:34,320 --> 03:47:37,360
Speaker 1: heads into of like every single person they arrested a

4093
03:47:37,480 --> 03:47:41,040
Speaker 1: thing that happened constantly drink occupy right, and these people

4094
03:47:41,360 --> 03:47:43,720
Speaker 1: who you know have seen the police shoot their friends

4095
03:47:43,800 --> 03:47:46,920
Speaker 1: eyes out, like, are incredibly inconvenient if you're trying to

4096
03:47:46,959 --> 03:47:49,040
Speaker 1: put yourself on top of a police state. And you

4097
03:47:49,120 --> 03:47:51,480
Speaker 1: know so of course our abolitionists, which means you also

4098
03:47:51,560 --> 03:47:53,840
Speaker 1: need a sideline them them and and these are this

4099
03:47:54,000 --> 03:47:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, this sort of strategy is an old entrenched

4100
03:47:56,320 --> 03:48:00,640
Speaker 1: like position of of of these people. Um in, Jeremy Gong,

4101
03:48:00,760 --> 03:48:02,840
Speaker 1: who was like the one time basically like the dictator

4102
03:48:02,920 --> 03:48:05,520
Speaker 1: of d. S. A. East Bay, was caught in in

4103
03:48:05,640 --> 03:48:09,320
Speaker 1: secret documents saying quote, we are not in caps, by

4104
03:48:09,320 --> 03:48:13,359
Speaker 1: the way, in his capital letters, not for abolition of prisons.

4105
03:48:13,480 --> 03:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I would go further of black people want more police

4106
03:48:17,720 --> 03:48:21,920
Speaker 1: in their neighborhoods. Really yeah, Jeremy Gong, by the way,

4107
03:48:22,000 --> 03:48:25,560
Speaker 1: Asian dude, not black. Fuck you eat ship. I hope

4108
03:48:25,600 --> 03:48:27,920
Speaker 1: you're having fun, Like, well, I don't have I don't

4109
03:48:27,920 --> 03:48:29,200
Speaker 1: hope you're having fun. I hope you're having a bad

4110
03:48:29,240 --> 03:48:31,720
Speaker 1: time losing another election by getting three percent of the

4111
03:48:31,800 --> 03:48:36,880
Speaker 1: vote or some ship like fuck you eat ship. Um yeah,

4112
03:48:36,959 --> 03:48:41,360
Speaker 1: and I should mention this also like it's a very

4113
03:48:41,440 --> 03:48:44,160
Speaker 1: obvious thing to say, but like it should be pointed

4114
03:48:44,240 --> 03:48:48,520
Speaker 1: out that like everyone who's making this argument like that,

4115
03:48:48,680 --> 03:48:51,520
Speaker 1: specifically these arguments about cops and about the stuffing about crime,

4116
03:48:51,600 --> 03:48:55,920
Speaker 1: these people are all either wider Asian, and I genuinely

4117
03:48:56,000 --> 03:48:58,680
Speaker 1: think that plays a pretty big role in why they're

4118
03:48:58,720 --> 03:49:02,240
Speaker 1: doing this. And it's just to breathtaking position to take

4119
03:49:04,880 --> 03:49:08,400
Speaker 1: as a white person, Like I'm looking at the anarchist

4120
03:49:08,480 --> 03:49:12,720
Speaker 1: Barring article which she wrote for news Week, great source

4121
03:49:12,800 --> 03:49:15,680
Speaker 1: of unbiased content on the left about how where we

4122
03:49:15,760 --> 03:49:18,600
Speaker 1: need to stop gas lighting progressives need to stop gas

4123
03:49:18,720 --> 03:49:23,560
Speaker 1: lighting people on crime too, as a white person, take

4124
03:49:23,680 --> 03:49:25,680
Speaker 1: the stand with the platform that has been given to you,

4125
03:49:25,760 --> 03:49:27,960
Speaker 1: with all the privileges that you have had, and and

4126
03:49:28,160 --> 03:49:31,760
Speaker 1: gas like black folks about the importance of race. It's

4127
03:49:31,880 --> 03:49:37,880
Speaker 1: just breathtakingly lacking in like context of self awareness or

4128
03:49:38,000 --> 03:49:40,760
Speaker 1: like have you not been fucking paying attention like at

4129
03:49:40,840 --> 03:49:42,440
Speaker 1: least for the last two years, if not for the

4130
03:49:42,520 --> 03:49:44,600
Speaker 1: last twenty years, you know, And I mean, like this

4131
03:49:44,800 --> 03:49:47,240
Speaker 1: is the whole thing where like they have this whole

4132
03:49:47,280 --> 03:49:50,240
Speaker 1: sort of political project that's like like makes talking about

4133
03:49:50,240 --> 03:49:52,480
Speaker 1: like their goal is to make talking about this ship

4134
03:49:52,600 --> 03:49:56,040
Speaker 1: sound cringe, because you know, they and they have to

4135
03:49:56,160 --> 03:49:58,000
Speaker 1: write this is this, this is this is also sort

4136
03:49:58,040 --> 03:50:01,200
Speaker 1: of class based revival strategy, right because like they these

4137
03:50:01,240 --> 03:50:03,840
Speaker 1: people couldn't fucking hack it as abolitionist scholars. They have

4138
03:50:03,920 --> 03:50:06,120
Speaker 1: no fucking idea what they're talking about. Right If they,

4139
03:50:06,120 --> 03:50:08,760
Speaker 1: if they, if they have to actually intellectually like be

4140
03:50:08,920 --> 03:50:12,480
Speaker 1: in the same sphere as like someone like Ruth Gilmore Wilson,

4141
03:50:12,760 --> 03:50:14,720
Speaker 1: they are going to get fucking blow. Like these people

4142
03:50:14,760 --> 03:50:17,560
Speaker 1: look like this is this is like a fucking battle

4143
03:50:17,680 --> 03:50:21,360
Speaker 1: cruiser going to war gets a speedboat, right, Like, they

4144
03:50:21,400 --> 03:50:23,200
Speaker 1: can't fucking hack it, And so they have to sort

4145
03:50:23,200 --> 03:50:25,720
Speaker 1: of like do all of this ship to convince people

4146
03:50:25,760 --> 03:50:28,040
Speaker 1: that like, no, no, no, it's actually really not about race. Uh,

4147
03:50:28,360 --> 03:50:30,480
Speaker 1: it's it's actually about class, this thing that I can

4148
03:50:30,960 --> 03:50:33,240
Speaker 1: very easily pretend to care about for academia in a

4149
03:50:33,280 --> 03:50:36,120
Speaker 1: way that I can't with you know, pretending to care

4150
03:50:36,120 --> 03:50:39,800
Speaker 1: about race, because like I, I can't even fucking fake it, right,

4151
03:50:39,840 --> 03:50:42,360
Speaker 1: And you know I would say this's like back in right,

4152
03:50:42,400 --> 03:50:44,320
Speaker 1: Like Jeremy Gong and his allies are very careful to

4153
03:50:44,400 --> 03:50:46,480
Speaker 1: frame their view in terms of like, wow, we want

4154
03:50:46,520 --> 03:50:49,680
Speaker 1: to end mass incarceration in police violence, but we have

4155
03:50:49,800 --> 03:50:51,280
Speaker 1: to be tactical about how we do it, and the

4156
03:50:51,360 --> 03:50:53,040
Speaker 1: tactical about how we do it is black people want

4157
03:50:53,040 --> 03:50:55,400
Speaker 1: more cops, right, But that that was their internal documents.

4158
03:50:55,400 --> 03:50:59,520
Speaker 1: Their external their external statements were like, well some police

4159
03:50:59,560 --> 03:51:02,080
Speaker 1: abolition is some stuff looks like more cops anyways, But

4160
03:51:02,240 --> 03:51:04,280
Speaker 1: but you know, internally they were always saying this. And

4161
03:51:04,800 --> 03:51:06,840
Speaker 1: now with the you know, these people think that there's

4162
03:51:06,840 --> 03:51:08,600
Speaker 1: a political right turn coming and they think that, you know,

4163
03:51:08,760 --> 03:51:11,360
Speaker 1: they can fucking take their mask off and just say

4164
03:51:11,400 --> 03:51:14,000
Speaker 1: what they really mean, which is five more fucking cops,

4165
03:51:14,520 --> 03:51:16,680
Speaker 1: and you know, and part of what's going on here, right,

4166
03:51:16,680 --> 03:51:18,120
Speaker 1: it is like, like the reason this is happening is

4167
03:51:18,120 --> 03:51:19,920
Speaker 1: because when the uprising happened, these people were just caught

4168
03:51:19,960 --> 03:51:23,280
Speaker 1: with their pants down because their entire political project for

4169
03:51:23,480 --> 03:51:27,000
Speaker 1: like fucking how how how many years were they doing this?

4170
03:51:27,120 --> 03:51:30,720
Speaker 1: Like seven years was elect Bernie Sanders, and then he

4171
03:51:30,960 --> 03:51:35,960
Speaker 1: lost back to back successively to like Hillary Clinton, who

4172
03:51:36,040 --> 03:51:38,360
Speaker 1: was maybe the least popular can the Democrats ever run ever?

4173
03:51:38,680 --> 03:51:42,280
Speaker 1: And Joe Biden, who is a fucking senile rapist who

4174
03:51:42,560 --> 03:51:45,120
Speaker 1: like again it was like, um, they they lost his

4175
03:51:45,160 --> 03:51:47,400
Speaker 1: election to a man who couldn't remember who who he

4176
03:51:47,520 --> 03:51:51,840
Speaker 1: had been vice president under and they couldn't beat him, right, like,

4177
03:51:52,440 --> 03:51:54,440
Speaker 1: so these people were completely discredited, and then you know,

4178
03:51:54,480 --> 03:51:56,200
Speaker 1: the uprising happens and people were caught with their pants

4179
03:51:56,240 --> 03:51:59,000
Speaker 1: down because they spent their entire fucking time or like

4180
03:51:59,320 --> 03:52:02,000
Speaker 1: arguing that there's no path liberation through race, like race,

4181
03:52:02,200 --> 03:52:05,360
Speaker 1: any kind of race politics at all, intersectionalities bullshit, like

4182
03:52:05,400 --> 03:52:06,840
Speaker 1: we just have to focus on class, just to focus

4183
03:52:06,920 --> 03:52:09,960
Speaker 1: on class, and they're fucking pure class. Electoral campaign failed

4184
03:52:10,080 --> 03:52:12,640
Speaker 1: in oh, hey, guess what it failed in the South,

4185
03:52:13,040 --> 03:52:17,120
Speaker 1: Like wow, damn, I wonder why this politics got swept

4186
03:52:17,200 --> 03:52:19,920
Speaker 1: by Joe Biden. Okay, And then you know, and then

4187
03:52:19,960 --> 03:52:23,440
Speaker 1: and then the up the uprising starts, and the uprising

4188
03:52:23,920 --> 03:52:26,600
Speaker 1: is you know, the uprising is about anti racism. It

4189
03:52:26,680 --> 03:52:28,880
Speaker 1: is about people looking at the at the violence like

4190
03:52:29,040 --> 03:52:31,040
Speaker 1: of the police against black people and going fuck this

4191
03:52:31,880 --> 03:52:35,320
Speaker 1: and they have nothing right, like the whole intellectual leadership here,

4192
03:52:35,360 --> 03:52:37,720
Speaker 1: like all these people are fucking calling for world crops.

4193
03:52:37,800 --> 03:52:41,480
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is arguing for Moore cops right like Rapo

4194
03:52:41,560 --> 03:52:44,280
Speaker 1: was fucking Trampa was literally making the same arguments that

4195
03:52:44,720 --> 03:52:48,840
Speaker 1: my fucking mayor made. Well, she was raising the fucking drawbridges.

4196
03:52:48,880 --> 03:52:50,760
Speaker 1: Is stop protesters from being able to get back into

4197
03:52:50,760 --> 03:52:53,440
Speaker 1: the middle of Chicago, which is that actually, like cops,

4198
03:52:53,800 --> 03:52:55,320
Speaker 1: becoming a cop is actually one of the few ways

4199
03:52:55,400 --> 03:52:59,440
Speaker 1: that non white people can join the middle class. Right.

4200
03:53:00,160 --> 03:53:02,160
Speaker 1: I was like, I think Amber made that argument, right, Um,

4201
03:53:02,640 --> 03:53:06,160
Speaker 1: so you know they have nothing right and you know, okay,

4202
03:53:06,480 --> 03:53:08,680
Speaker 1: and and and you know, and the uprise eventually gets supressed,

4203
03:53:08,680 --> 03:53:10,000
Speaker 1: which the best thing that ever happened to these people,

4204
03:53:10,000 --> 03:53:11,600
Speaker 1: because if the uprising has to see these people were

4205
03:53:11,640 --> 03:53:16,480
Speaker 1: done right. Like, but all of this has enormous consequences, right,

4206
03:53:16,520 --> 03:53:18,560
Speaker 1: which is the failure of the working class to appear

4207
03:53:18,600 --> 03:53:20,520
Speaker 1: at the ballot box. And like Paul Bernie Sanders over

4208
03:53:20,560 --> 03:53:22,440
Speaker 1: the line against Joe Biden revealed something that was like

4209
03:53:22,520 --> 03:53:25,360
Speaker 1: patently obvious to anyone who've been watching how the working

4210
03:53:25,400 --> 03:53:28,080
Speaker 1: class is moving worldwide for the past twenty years, which

4211
03:53:28,160 --> 03:53:30,160
Speaker 1: is that the only thing that can actually unify the

4212
03:53:30,240 --> 03:53:32,160
Speaker 1: if you care about class politics, the only thing that

4213
03:53:32,200 --> 03:53:34,720
Speaker 1: can unify the working class and pull it together as

4214
03:53:34,760 --> 03:53:37,640
Speaker 1: a coherent political force to do a thing is their

4215
03:53:37,680 --> 03:53:40,320
Speaker 1: hatred of the police. If if you look at if

4216
03:53:40,360 --> 03:53:42,240
Speaker 1: you look at what the work of working class politics

4217
03:53:42,280 --> 03:53:45,080
Speaker 1: in the century, the world, the working class finds his

4218
03:53:45,160 --> 03:53:49,480
Speaker 1: historical unity exactly and only on the barricade it appears undivided.

4219
03:53:49,800 --> 03:53:52,400
Speaker 1: Literally nowhere else it is impossible. You can't do it.

4220
03:53:52,520 --> 03:53:56,560
Speaker 1: The only thing that does it is fighting the police

4221
03:53:57,680 --> 03:54:01,000
Speaker 1: more broadly and like means of state violence. Right, Like

4222
03:54:01,040 --> 03:54:02,560
Speaker 1: if we look at the popular friend in its Spain,

4223
03:54:02,880 --> 03:54:05,880
Speaker 1: it don't you even get like cops who are installed

4224
03:54:05,920 --> 03:54:08,360
Speaker 1: by a socialist republican government joining the working class to

4225
03:54:08,400 --> 03:54:11,480
Speaker 1: fight the military. But yeah, instead we're going to be

4226
03:54:11,560 --> 03:54:13,440
Speaker 1: like the working class will be united in this op

4227
03:54:13,600 --> 03:54:15,560
Speaker 1: ed at news week dot com or and there's this

4228
03:54:15,600 --> 03:54:18,760
Speaker 1: smoking electoral thing, right, And it's like no, and I

4229
03:54:18,880 --> 03:54:21,840
Speaker 1: think that like this this is partially about this people

4230
03:54:21,960 --> 03:54:24,320
Speaker 1: not understanding the sort of broad arc of of the

4231
03:54:24,400 --> 03:54:26,240
Speaker 1: last decade a decade and a half, which is that,

4232
03:54:26,320 --> 03:54:29,280
Speaker 1: like this was the actual meaning behind the people want

4233
03:54:29,320 --> 03:54:31,760
Speaker 1: to fallow of the regime. Right this, this was what

4234
03:54:31,960 --> 03:54:33,960
Speaker 1: was going on in the last decade of uprising in

4235
03:54:34,000 --> 03:54:37,320
Speaker 1: the street movements across the world. Right, is that that

4236
03:54:37,560 --> 03:54:39,200
Speaker 1: was the thing that could unify the working class. But

4237
03:54:39,240 --> 03:54:40,880
Speaker 1: of course, and and this is the sort of secret

4238
03:54:40,920 --> 03:54:43,720
Speaker 1: of all of this, right, Like, these people don't want

4239
03:54:43,760 --> 03:54:46,040
Speaker 1: to unify the working class They only want to unify

4240
03:54:46,080 --> 03:54:48,560
Speaker 1: it if it's under their control. The erupt the eruption

4241
03:54:48,640 --> 03:54:51,320
Speaker 1: of you know, like actually the working class standing side

4242
03:54:51,360 --> 03:54:54,440
Speaker 1: by side together fighting the cops on barricades in twenty

4243
03:54:54,480 --> 03:54:56,000
Speaker 1: was the worst thing that could possibly happen to them,

4244
03:54:56,360 --> 03:54:58,400
Speaker 1: because you know, it pointed to another way of doing

4245
03:54:58,440 --> 03:55:00,680
Speaker 1: politics that they like in the in the street that

4246
03:55:00,720 --> 03:55:02,960
Speaker 1: they thought they'd you know, crushed after the feet of

4247
03:55:03,000 --> 03:55:07,760
Speaker 1: occupy and yeah, and you know, and they were, they were,

4248
03:55:08,040 --> 03:55:09,760
Speaker 1: they were incredibly scared by this. They were piste off

4249
03:55:09,840 --> 03:55:14,720
Speaker 1: by this. And you know, I I I mentioned last episode,

4250
03:55:14,760 --> 03:55:16,000
Speaker 1: I was going to talk about the sort of class

4251
03:55:16,080 --> 03:55:20,280
Speaker 1: politics that's at work here because you know, these demands

4252
03:55:20,840 --> 03:55:24,480
Speaker 1: for more cops, like they don't come from the working class, right, Like,

4253
03:55:24,600 --> 03:55:27,000
Speaker 1: in so far as there's ever been a referendum on

4254
03:55:27,160 --> 03:55:31,280
Speaker 1: the police as an institution, it was and you know,

4255
03:55:31,760 --> 03:55:33,720
Speaker 1: we know what that looked like, right, It was it

4256
03:55:33,800 --> 03:55:36,800
Speaker 1: was a bunch of working class kids went into the

4257
03:55:36,840 --> 03:55:39,440
Speaker 1: streets and you know and fought like lions against the

4258
03:55:39,480 --> 03:55:42,440
Speaker 1: fucking cops, and even the sort of liberal like the

4259
03:55:42,560 --> 03:55:46,120
Speaker 1: liberal middle and professional classes like eventually turned against them,

4260
03:55:46,160 --> 03:55:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, as as rolled on right, and you know,

4261
03:55:50,600 --> 03:55:53,800
Speaker 1: like those people still hung on for months and months

4262
03:55:53,880 --> 03:55:56,600
Speaker 1: and months, you know, like refusing to leave the streets

4263
03:55:56,640 --> 03:55:59,280
Speaker 1: even after the fucking federal marshal sort of literally assassinating

4264
03:55:59,320 --> 03:56:02,960
Speaker 1: people openly in the streets. Right, Like the whole demand

4265
03:56:03,040 --> 03:56:05,360
Speaker 1: from more cops for like a harsher crackdown on crime.

4266
03:56:05,520 --> 03:56:07,920
Speaker 1: All of this stuff comes from precisely the opposite direction. Right.

4267
03:56:08,240 --> 03:56:11,720
Speaker 1: It's entirely generated by the by the by by by

4268
03:56:11,760 --> 03:56:14,280
Speaker 1: basically the media class. Right. It's it's class based is

4269
03:56:14,280 --> 03:56:17,360
Speaker 1: a combination of these sort of like faux progressive like

4270
03:56:17,520 --> 03:56:19,480
Speaker 1: media outlets. And originally the starts with the New York

4271
03:56:19,480 --> 03:56:21,720
Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post, and then moves left are

4272
03:56:21,800 --> 03:56:25,200
Speaker 1: nominally left right, and when it hits like the fucking

4273
03:56:25,240 --> 03:56:28,800
Speaker 1: T I T and all of their like bullshit right,

4274
03:56:28,920 --> 03:56:31,560
Speaker 1: and then you know, and and and then at that point,

4275
03:56:31,680 --> 03:56:33,640
Speaker 1: having having having went through the media people, right, it's

4276
03:56:33,680 --> 03:56:36,080
Speaker 1: it starts running through these pseudo ratical academics like Christopher

4277
03:56:36,160 --> 03:56:38,960
Speaker 1: Lewis and Autinario Sami and then the last group of

4278
03:56:39,000 --> 03:56:41,680
Speaker 1: people who are backing this this is a very weird one.

4279
03:56:42,200 --> 03:56:47,200
Speaker 1: But there's a collection of paid union staffers who like

4280
03:56:47,320 --> 03:56:49,360
Speaker 1: for their jobs because they're in the big union's work

4281
03:56:49,440 --> 03:56:52,960
Speaker 1: on police and prison guard contracts. Um, this this is

4282
03:56:53,000 --> 03:56:54,400
Speaker 1: actually this is this is this has been a huge

4283
03:56:54,400 --> 03:57:00,560
Speaker 1: problem the d s A in in In said one

4284
03:57:00,600 --> 03:57:03,480
Speaker 1: of the NC elections, they had um for the for

4285
03:57:03,520 --> 03:57:05,240
Speaker 1: the National Political Committee, which is the d s A

4286
03:57:05,360 --> 03:57:09,000
Speaker 1: is big major body, like governing body. Right. They they

4287
03:57:09,040 --> 03:57:12,840
Speaker 1: accident people accidentally elected a police union organizer because he

4288
03:57:12,960 --> 03:57:14,320
Speaker 1: was like they knew he was a union organized, but

4289
03:57:14,360 --> 03:57:16,440
Speaker 1: they didn't know that he organized police unions. And then

4290
03:57:16,600 --> 03:57:19,840
Speaker 1: he he fucking refeat like nothing, nothing was going to happen.

4291
03:57:20,000 --> 03:57:22,120
Speaker 1: And then basically what happened is everyone had left the

4292
03:57:22,200 --> 03:57:26,200
Speaker 1: organization bullied him out and so he resigned. But like, yeah,

4293
03:57:26,240 --> 03:57:27,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of those people, right and those people's

4294
03:57:27,920 --> 03:57:33,080
Speaker 1: classes actives are incredibly obvious. Right, But didn't the a

4295
03:57:33,240 --> 03:57:36,360
Speaker 1: f l c I O even in like refused to

4296
03:57:36,400 --> 03:57:40,080
Speaker 1: reject police unions right there? But like, no, people, if

4297
03:57:40,080 --> 03:57:41,880
Speaker 1: I remember, if I remember, I think I think someone

4298
03:57:41,960 --> 03:57:44,920
Speaker 1: threw a malt off like into the headquarters the because

4299
03:57:44,960 --> 03:57:47,320
Speaker 1: of it, Like yeah, like this this this is the

4300
03:57:47,360 --> 03:57:53,200
Speaker 1: whole fucking thing, and you know, like this sucks. Cops

4301
03:57:53,240 --> 03:57:57,720
Speaker 1: are not fucking workers, Jesus Christ, Like they're they're just

4302
03:57:57,960 --> 03:57:59,680
Speaker 1: not if you if you look at what they actually do,

4303
03:58:00,080 --> 03:58:04,320
Speaker 1: they're they're they're like they're basically minor feudal lords in

4304
03:58:04,480 --> 03:58:06,960
Speaker 1: that they extract rent from everyone by fucking walking on

4305
03:58:07,080 --> 03:58:10,040
Speaker 1: people and robbing them. And then they also extract rent

4306
03:58:10,080 --> 03:58:13,080
Speaker 1: directly from us by staking, by stealing, just like enormous

4307
03:58:13,120 --> 03:58:16,480
Speaker 1: increasingly large amounts of city funds under basically the threat

4308
03:58:16,480 --> 03:58:21,760
Speaker 1: of extortion and violence. Yeah, little dames, Yeah, it's it's

4309
03:58:22,000 --> 03:58:24,120
Speaker 1: it's ship. I want to come back to the sort

4310
03:58:24,160 --> 03:58:27,160
Speaker 1: of left media outlets, right, because what we've been seeing

4311
03:58:27,240 --> 03:58:29,160
Speaker 1: here is that as as these lot of left media

4312
03:58:29,200 --> 03:58:34,360
Speaker 1: outlets get larger, right, they increasingly adopt like insane small

4313
03:58:34,440 --> 03:58:37,440
Speaker 1: business tyrant politics. Because that's that's the different coming right too.

4314
03:58:37,520 --> 03:58:41,200
Speaker 1: I t notoriously tried to bust its own union staff. Yeah,

4315
03:58:41,840 --> 03:58:44,520
Speaker 1: because it turns out as journalists become bosses and capitalists,

4316
03:58:44,520 --> 03:58:45,920
Speaker 1: they have they have their own classes just to look

4317
03:58:45,920 --> 03:58:48,280
Speaker 1: out for, right, Yeah, and they will continue producing this

4318
03:58:48,440 --> 03:58:52,120
Speaker 1: class discourse which serves as nothing other than like best

4319
03:58:52,240 --> 03:58:55,440
Speaker 1: like a safety sort of steam valve, right for people

4320
03:58:55,480 --> 03:58:57,880
Speaker 1: who are frustrated by the class situation they work in.

4321
03:58:58,000 --> 03:59:01,480
Speaker 1: If if not like an outright sort of disinformation campaign

4322
03:59:01,520 --> 03:59:04,320
Speaker 1: about what class is. Yeah, and you know, and and

4323
03:59:04,520 --> 03:59:06,720
Speaker 1: and there's I think there's another thing going on here too,

4324
03:59:06,920 --> 03:59:10,120
Speaker 1: which is that like, okay, if if you're like a

4325
03:59:10,400 --> 03:59:12,680
Speaker 1: sort of like media outlets and your things that you

4326
03:59:12,760 --> 03:59:15,040
Speaker 1: hate liberals and that you're on the left, right, there's

4327
03:59:15,120 --> 03:59:19,280
Speaker 1: there's kind of a cap to your audience base, and

4328
03:59:19,320 --> 03:59:21,240
Speaker 1: specifically as a cap that the kind of audience you

4329
03:59:21,280 --> 03:59:23,520
Speaker 1: can have that actually has money, because you know, you

4330
03:59:23,760 --> 03:59:25,240
Speaker 1: can you can get a broke base and sort of

4331
03:59:25,280 --> 03:59:27,520
Speaker 1: progressive workers, and you can get some college students, right,

4332
03:59:28,080 --> 03:59:30,320
Speaker 1: but at some point, like those those are not people

4333
03:59:30,360 --> 03:59:32,840
Speaker 1: that have a large amount of money. Yeah, And at

4334
03:59:32,920 --> 03:59:36,400
Speaker 1: some point the right offers a listener base that has

4335
03:59:36,440 --> 03:59:39,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of money, and this gives you a revenue

4336
03:59:39,240 --> 03:59:41,440
Speaker 1: base for sort of would be like media attack who's

4337
03:59:41,480 --> 03:59:43,040
Speaker 1: hitting the limits of their original base. And this is

4338
03:59:43,080 --> 03:59:46,400
Speaker 1: responsible for things like like Max Blue menhal and X

4339
03:59:46,440 --> 03:59:48,600
Speaker 1: like t I T Reporter Jimmy Door like descending it

4340
03:59:48,720 --> 03:59:51,640
Speaker 1: is just full on COVID nihilism and con I mean,

4341
03:59:51,640 --> 03:59:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's not like these people were

4342
03:59:53,040 --> 03:59:55,520
Speaker 1: like doing good before, but like, you know, full on

4343
03:59:55,840 --> 03:59:59,840
Speaker 1: right wing, like like Matt Max Bluementhal going from being

4344
04:00:00,080 --> 04:00:02,000
Speaker 1: the most pro CCP guy the world has ever seen

4345
04:00:02,080 --> 04:00:04,440
Speaker 1: to literally writing articles about how social credit is coming

4346
04:00:04,440 --> 04:00:07,240
Speaker 1: to the us UH in a form of commed restrictions

4347
04:00:07,480 --> 04:00:10,840
Speaker 1: like this kind of ship. And you know, so like

4348
04:00:10,960 --> 04:00:13,000
Speaker 1: that that's part of the class politics going on here.

4349
04:00:13,280 --> 04:00:17,960
Speaker 1: Like there's another thing, which is like, okay, there's the

4350
04:00:18,000 --> 04:00:21,320
Speaker 1: Harvard academics. I don't think we need to say anything

4351
04:00:21,360 --> 04:00:23,960
Speaker 1: complicated about their class loyalties except that, like, none of

4352
04:00:24,000 --> 04:00:25,720
Speaker 1: these dipships are ever be beaten half the death by

4353
04:00:25,760 --> 04:00:29,200
Speaker 1: a cop um. Yeah, I mean we talked about the

4354
04:00:29,280 --> 04:00:33,720
Speaker 1: union bureaucrats, right, Um, they're more complicated. But again, like

4355
04:00:34,320 --> 04:00:36,440
Speaker 1: in class terms, you get people who are either driven

4356
04:00:36,520 --> 04:00:39,240
Speaker 1: by purely by sort of the revenue that copying is

4357
04:00:39,360 --> 04:00:41,640
Speaker 1: bring in, and then you get people who are opposed

4358
04:00:41,680 --> 04:00:44,040
Speaker 1: to political organizations like the d s A taking firm

4359
04:00:44,080 --> 04:00:46,600
Speaker 1: stances against police union organizers because it would affect their

4360
04:00:46,600 --> 04:00:49,320
Speaker 1: own ability to win off like win elections inside the

4361
04:00:49,440 --> 04:00:52,480
Speaker 1: d s A, A thing that has happens so many times.

4362
04:00:55,680 --> 04:00:58,920
Speaker 1: It's great. It's it's very funny that they chose classes,

4363
04:00:59,120 --> 04:01:03,040
Speaker 1: and they chose like education level as their proxy for class.

4364
04:01:03,280 --> 04:01:05,160
Speaker 1: And we are discussing this in the same week that

4365
04:01:05,280 --> 04:01:08,520
Speaker 1: we release an episode about a grad student strike at

4366
04:01:08,560 --> 04:01:11,960
Speaker 1: the largest university in the country because grad students are

4367
04:01:12,200 --> 04:01:14,840
Speaker 1: unhoused because they can't afford to pay their rent and

4368
04:01:15,000 --> 04:01:21,240
Speaker 1: feed themselves. It is. It is a Trocias ship. Like, Okay,

4369
04:01:21,800 --> 04:01:25,200
Speaker 1: I need hate people. Um, yeah, So I want to

4370
04:01:25,280 --> 04:01:29,520
Speaker 1: close off by talking about something, which is that there's

4371
04:01:29,520 --> 04:01:32,320
Speaker 1: also a political angle to all of this. Right, these people,

4372
04:01:32,560 --> 04:01:35,080
Speaker 1: all of these people doing this fucking crime bullshit, all

4373
04:01:35,120 --> 04:01:38,200
Speaker 1: these people fucking going right, all of these people calculated

4374
04:01:38,240 --> 04:01:40,440
Speaker 1: that a right turn in American politics was coming. Right.

4375
04:01:40,720 --> 04:01:43,640
Speaker 1: That's why t Yet endorse a fucking literally a Republican

4376
04:01:43,680 --> 04:01:46,880
Speaker 1: in California who was also an insane, tough on crime guy.

4377
04:01:47,320 --> 04:01:52,840
Speaker 1: This is why. That's why they had no Noso Caruso.

4378
04:01:52,920 --> 04:01:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeaho was a Republican who changed his party affiliations. We

4379
04:01:55,000 --> 04:01:58,240
Speaker 1: could run the Democratic thing. Who fucking sucks, asked, That's

4380
04:01:58,240 --> 04:02:01,720
Speaker 1: why theyre that, That's why they had Matt quote alleged

4381
04:02:01,800 --> 04:02:05,720
Speaker 1: pedophile Gates on their show on election night, Larry Elder

4382
04:02:05,800 --> 04:02:08,960
Speaker 1: on this show as well, like election denialist Larry Elder. Yeah,

4383
04:02:09,200 --> 04:02:11,680
Speaker 1: like this this wasn't just a pure product of these

4384
04:02:11,720 --> 04:02:14,920
Speaker 1: people going insane watching videos of like people looting grocery

4385
04:02:14,960 --> 04:02:17,400
Speaker 1: stores and turn to get tough on crime. Reactionaries. This

4386
04:02:17,560 --> 04:02:22,680
Speaker 1: was the political calculation and stuff. But yeah, but but

4387
04:02:22,800 --> 04:02:25,800
Speaker 1: but they sucked up. Right, These people fundamentally don't understand

4388
04:02:25,920 --> 04:02:28,680
Speaker 1: what this country is. They're scared, they've given up. They

4389
04:02:28,680 --> 04:02:30,400
Speaker 1: saw a single homeless person on the street and turn

4390
04:02:30,440 --> 04:02:32,720
Speaker 1: into a fascist. And they think that the American people

4391
04:02:32,760 --> 04:02:34,600
Speaker 1: are just hopeless, the reactionary and the only thing that's

4392
04:02:34,640 --> 04:02:36,720
Speaker 1: left to do is solve the situation by selling out.

4393
04:02:37,160 --> 04:02:40,920
Speaker 1: And they're smart. They don't think. They don't credit people

4394
04:02:41,000 --> 04:02:43,760
Speaker 1: with having like compassion or empathy or intelligence either. Right,

4395
04:02:44,320 --> 04:02:46,760
Speaker 1: they think they would go the direction their stupid grift

4396
04:02:46,840 --> 04:02:50,480
Speaker 1: show points. Yeah, and and they're wrong. They're incredibly wrong.

4397
04:02:51,040 --> 04:02:52,720
Speaker 1: This is a country that, in the name of fighting

4398
04:02:52,840 --> 04:02:55,280
Speaker 1: racism and the police, in the name of solidarity with

4399
04:02:55,360 --> 04:02:57,400
Speaker 1: people who are not their fucking seals, people who they

4400
04:02:57,440 --> 04:03:00,120
Speaker 1: will literally never beat, put on a mass picked up

4401
04:03:00,120 --> 04:03:02,480
Speaker 1: a brick and waged war against the best funded police

4402
04:03:02,520 --> 04:03:04,800
Speaker 1: force in human history. And for like a week and

4403
04:03:04,880 --> 04:03:08,360
Speaker 1: a half, those same fucking Americans who the entire political

4404
04:03:08,400 --> 04:03:11,280
Speaker 1: spectrum had written office hopelessly beaten down and passive and

4405
04:03:11,440 --> 04:03:13,800
Speaker 1: right wing and like people people who will take any

4406
04:03:13,840 --> 04:03:16,320
Speaker 1: amount of abuse and never is anything back wrecked. The

4407
04:03:16,520 --> 04:03:20,240
Speaker 1: fucking wrecked. The cops shit so hard they lost control

4408
04:03:20,320 --> 04:03:22,960
Speaker 1: over the centers, have made multiple major American cities and

4409
04:03:23,080 --> 04:03:25,320
Speaker 1: had to call in the fucking National Guard, who in

4410
04:03:25,520 --> 04:03:27,920
Speaker 1: turn got their ship wrecked so hard that they had

4411
04:03:27,960 --> 04:03:29,880
Speaker 1: to rely on liberal civil society to call him the

4412
04:03:29,920 --> 04:03:33,320
Speaker 1: protest down. And even then, the President would have fucking

4413
04:03:33,400 --> 04:03:35,640
Speaker 1: deployed the army against them if he had actually been

4414
04:03:35,680 --> 04:03:38,320
Speaker 1: physically able to. And the old reason that these people

4415
04:03:38,400 --> 04:03:41,480
Speaker 1: weren't fighting the fucking army in the streets was that

4416
04:03:42,080 --> 04:03:44,320
Speaker 1: was that the fucking American generals refused to go along

4417
04:03:44,360 --> 04:03:46,560
Speaker 1: with it. Right like that, that is who the U

4418
04:03:46,760 --> 04:03:48,720
Speaker 1: s is that that that is whose generation is. This

4419
04:03:48,800 --> 04:03:51,920
Speaker 1: generation is forever the generation that burned the Third Precinct,

4420
04:03:52,240 --> 04:03:54,480
Speaker 1: and the fucking X left is running right. Just don't

4421
04:03:54,600 --> 04:03:57,400
Speaker 1: fucking get it right. They think the entire clock has

4422
04:03:57,440 --> 04:03:59,680
Speaker 1: been brown back. They think that like those that, like

4423
04:03:59,800 --> 04:04:01,640
Speaker 1: the of people who did that, I've already been destroyed.

4424
04:04:01,640 --> 04:04:03,640
Speaker 1: They don't matter. The only thing left, you know that

4425
04:04:03,720 --> 04:04:05,480
Speaker 1: you can do is join them right and mitigate the damage.

4426
04:04:05,520 --> 04:04:08,680
Speaker 1: And they're fucking wrong. They are wrong. They can't see it.

4427
04:04:08,800 --> 04:04:11,440
Speaker 1: They cannot see that there was no way to turn

4428
04:04:11,480 --> 04:04:14,080
Speaker 1: the clock back to before the uprising happened. They can't

4429
04:04:14,120 --> 04:04:16,440
Speaker 1: see that, like this entire country, that the that the

4430
04:04:16,480 --> 04:04:18,440
Speaker 1: American working class, that parts of the people who are

4431
04:04:18,480 --> 04:04:21,440
Speaker 1: not part of the American working class have been fundamentally changed.

4432
04:04:22,760 --> 04:04:26,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, they just they just can't see it. And

4433
04:04:26,280 --> 04:04:28,400
Speaker 1: because they can't see it, the only thing that they're

4434
04:04:28,440 --> 04:04:31,120
Speaker 1: ever going to feel is the way that there is.

4435
04:04:31,120 --> 04:04:32,360
Speaker 1: The only thing they can feel is the way of

4436
04:04:32,360 --> 04:04:33,960
Speaker 1: their ignorance. And the only thing they're going to feel

4437
04:04:33,960 --> 04:04:36,840
Speaker 1: on top of that is them getting fucking buried by

4438
04:04:36,840 --> 04:04:38,440
Speaker 1: the weight of the history that has left them behind.

4439
04:04:38,600 --> 04:04:41,680
Speaker 1: Because fun, these people, fuck the cops. Fun the people

4440
04:04:41,720 --> 04:04:43,480
Speaker 1: who support the cops. These people will be down, but

4441
04:04:43,600 --> 04:04:45,560
Speaker 1: will be fucking drowned by the tide of history they

4442
04:04:45,600 --> 04:04:50,280
Speaker 1: thought didn't fucking exist. Fuck them. Okay, this is what Yeah,

4443
04:04:50,680 --> 04:04:52,680
Speaker 1: you can probably tell I wrote this really really piste

4444
04:04:52,680 --> 04:04:55,360
Speaker 1: off at five in the fucking morning, because Jesus Christ,

4445
04:05:01,080 --> 04:05:04,600
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. Pick up

4446
04:05:04,640 --> 04:05:09,160
Speaker 1: a brick, put down the young Turks. Yeah, don't fucking

4447
04:05:09,160 --> 04:05:13,240
Speaker 1: support more cops. Every every everyone will hate you. Your

4448
04:05:13,280 --> 04:05:15,640
Speaker 1: coworkers will hate you, your friends will hit you, your

4449
04:05:15,680 --> 04:05:17,800
Speaker 1: family will hit you. The guy, the guy at the

4450
04:05:17,880 --> 04:05:22,040
Speaker 1: fucking quarter store will hate you. Yeah. And if you

4451
04:05:22,200 --> 04:05:26,360
Speaker 1: find your fucking left hero standing the people who murdered

4452
04:05:26,400 --> 04:05:29,120
Speaker 1: George Floyd or stood around and watch George Floyd being murdered,

4453
04:05:29,200 --> 04:05:31,840
Speaker 1: then they are not a leftist anymore. And it's okay

4454
04:05:31,920 --> 04:05:34,040
Speaker 1: to tell them to fuck off and die. Yeah, And

4455
04:05:34,080 --> 04:05:35,480
Speaker 1: I mean, like, and we can go back to this

4456
04:05:35,520 --> 04:05:38,400
Speaker 1: our first episode, right, Like, the reason these people are

4457
04:05:38,440 --> 04:05:41,400
Speaker 1: calling for five more cops is that they've given up entirely, right,

4458
04:05:41,440 --> 04:05:44,680
Speaker 1: They literally do not think it is possible for anything

4459
04:05:44,760 --> 04:05:47,520
Speaker 1: to ever improve in the US, And then well they

4460
04:05:47,600 --> 04:05:51,200
Speaker 1: are wrong. Yeah, And I think that they're okay with

4461
04:05:51,720 --> 04:05:54,600
Speaker 1: the way that our police behave and there if that

4462
04:05:54,720 --> 04:05:57,440
Speaker 1: makes him feel comfortable and safe, then they don't mind

4463
04:05:58,360 --> 04:06:00,520
Speaker 1: people die at the hands in the police. Cops protect

4464
04:06:00,600 --> 04:06:03,240
Speaker 1: rich people. These people have gotten wealthy enough to have

4465
04:06:03,400 --> 04:06:06,960
Speaker 1: the cops now benefit them. It's it's that simple, Like,

4466
04:06:07,080 --> 04:06:09,480
Speaker 1: that's that, that's it's it's it's I think that really

4467
04:06:09,600 --> 04:06:15,840
Speaker 1: is the yeah, trying motivator here. Yeah, And like I

4468
04:06:15,880 --> 04:06:17,920
Speaker 1: will say this to like, if we ever get to

4469
04:06:18,000 --> 04:06:20,280
Speaker 1: a point where we start sucking doing this, like take

4470
04:06:20,400 --> 04:06:23,160
Speaker 1: us down to this. This is this isn't just a

4471
04:06:23,240 --> 04:06:24,960
Speaker 1: sort of like we're trying to build our business whatever.

4472
04:06:25,000 --> 04:06:27,240
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't fucking care. I would I

4473
04:06:27,320 --> 04:06:30,080
Speaker 1: would rather fucking go broke in the streets. I would

4474
04:06:30,160 --> 04:06:32,720
Speaker 1: rather fucking die than be a person whose job it

4475
04:06:32,840 --> 04:06:41,760
Speaker 1: is to say we need more cops. Fuck these people. God, yeah,

4476
04:06:42,400 --> 04:06:44,240
Speaker 1: m m. They've plumped me on Twitter, so I can't

4477
04:06:44,280 --> 04:06:51,880
Speaker 1: say get off to him podcast fans. God, we are

4478
04:06:52,200 --> 04:06:57,160
Speaker 1: not insigning harassment campaign instead nowhere other things. Yeah, I

4479
04:06:57,240 --> 04:06:59,560
Speaker 1: don't waste Yeah, I know seriousness. Don't waste your time

4480
04:06:59,600 --> 04:07:02,200
Speaker 1: doing this course with people who exist to create bullshit

4481
04:07:02,320 --> 04:07:05,240
Speaker 1: discourse said, just a distraction. Go and help someone needs

4482
04:07:05,280 --> 04:07:08,640
Speaker 1: your help. It's called it's wet, it's wintertime and everyone

4483
04:07:08,680 --> 04:07:10,720
Speaker 1: the house, people who are shivering on the streets. So

4484
04:07:10,880 --> 04:07:14,200
Speaker 1: don't funk with the young talk. Just ignore them. Point

4485
04:07:14,240 --> 04:07:17,960
Speaker 1: to say, go go, go, go out there and fucking

4486
04:07:18,040 --> 04:07:20,760
Speaker 1: build the socialism that these people think is impossible, because

4487
04:07:20,960 --> 04:07:24,040
Speaker 1: we can do it, and we will, and then we

4488
04:07:24,080 --> 04:07:27,280
Speaker 1: will laugh at them because we've done it and they

4489
04:07:27,640 --> 04:07:36,840
Speaker 1: are fucking bullshit. Yeah, that's that's the episode. Hey, we'll

4490
04:07:36,840 --> 04:07:39,920
Speaker 1: be back Monday, with more episodes every week from now

4491
04:07:40,040 --> 04:07:42,640
Speaker 1: until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen

4492
04:07:42,680 --> 04:07:45,000
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

4493
04:07:45,040 --> 04:07:47,800
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone

4494
04:07:47,840 --> 04:07:49,680
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I

4495
04:07:49,800 --> 04:07:53,040
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

4496
04:07:53,480 --> 04:07:55,560
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

4497
04:07:55,640 --> 04:07:59,120
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks

4498
04:07:59,160 --> 04:07:59,640
Speaker 1: for listening.