WEBVTT - How Much More Economic Growth Can the Planet Sustain 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all hartnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.960 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, I have to say 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.000 we're gonna switch gears talk about a piece that I 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.199 absolutely love and add it to your list of concern 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.000 strategy and outlook thinking and really plays into that headline 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.640 about Hurricane Ian. This story, it's a Bloomberg Opinion column. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.959 It asks how much more economic growth can the planet sustain? 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.880 And folks, if you thought it was endless, think again. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.320 The piece by Mark Buchanan, a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.160 Mark this Afternoon joins us on the phone from France. Mark, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.840 good to have you with us this afternoon. As you 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.760 write in your piece for Bloomberg Opinion, you are a 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 trained scientist, So give us the lens that you're looking 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.480 through right now when it comes to economic growth theory. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.319 Sure so, so I'm I'm I'm a physicist by training 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:16.440 natural scientists. And there's a really interesting kind of argument 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.640 that's been going on between natural scientists and economists for 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.479 about fifty years. Um. So economists and and you know, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.640 everyone knows that we rely on economic growth for our 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.839 societies to function. And economic growth has been a great 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.880 thing in many ways. It listed many people out of poverty, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.440 gives us lots of interesting gadgets and tools, and makes 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.720 life easier of improved life expectancy. However, at the same time, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.640 we have lots of negatives. There's pollution, there's lots of 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:51.880 environmental degradation. Um. And so you know, it's difficult to 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.080 kind of weigh up these two the positives and the negatives. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.440 And this argument that's been going on for fifty years 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:03.120 between the econmists who generally say economic growth is great, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.880 we need more of it, um. We just need need 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.920 to find out how to continually get more growth in 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:14.440 the future, and the natural scientists, especially environmentalist ecologists, biologists 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.320 who said, look, we have a finite planet. Um, we 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.400 can grow to a certain extent, but the more we grow, 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.760 the more burden we put on the planet in terms 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:29.160 of pollution, disrupting natural processes on which we we really 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.440 rely in the end, for recycling, clean air, clean water, 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.840 all those things that eventually go into our our productive 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.280 our ability to produce things usefully. So this argument has 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.320 been going on for a long time, and I've been 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.000 I've taken part in this as a natural scientist, and 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.960 I you know, I tend to take the anti economist 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.560 point of view. But I was in a really interesting 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.120 conference recently and I heard the best ever explanation from 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:00.839 a distinguished economist about why the economists have been so 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.760 convinced that economic growth is this wonderful, great thing. And 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.720 he said, basically, as historical um fact or historical cork 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.760 if you will, so, Um, the growth, the theories of 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.040 growth in economics were developed in the post World War 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:23.320 two era, not in fifties sixties, when back then, um, 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.960 you know, pollution wasn't too too great, Um, the scope 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.720 of human activities were smaller, and it did seem to 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.960 economists at the time that it was always possible for 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:38.080 humans to innovate their way out of any particular problem. 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.160 If one beach became cutted or polluted, you can move 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.320 to a new beach. You can do to to a 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.440 new set of fields to to grow your crops if 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.840 some became you degraded. Um. So it was always possible 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.760 to innovate in a way that would let you continue 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.200 to grow. And this, this guy, this idea of the 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:01.760 possibility of perpetual innovation was built into the basic mathematics 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.960 of what it's called growth theory, which has been a 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.320 cornerstone of economics for for about fifty years. So this 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.160 lecture by a distinguished the common economists Partha das Gupta 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.440 from Cambridge University in the UK, he was pointing out that, um, 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.440 it's true that that the economists actually made some assumptions 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.160 in those early theories which have gone on to inflict 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.680 you know, serious kind of intellectual um damage on all 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.120 of us um um in the current current era. And 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.800 the reason is that that nature was never really included 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.840 in the growth formulas that economists and governments around the 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:45.200 world have relied upon. So I won't get into the details, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.000 but there's a simple formula for growth. And there's a 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.880 bunch of factors that contribute to it, and the biggest 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:56.320 one is our ability to innovate, have tech, new technology, knowledge, 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:01.640 learn about the world. Another thing that contributes is you know, resources, minerals, oil, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.960 that kind of thing, human capital, our ability to find labor, etcetera. UM. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.400 The one thing that was never really included in the 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:15.040 growth theories were the way that nature does lots of 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.640 processes that we don't even think about, such as providing um, 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.760 clean clean air, clean clean water, and recycling all the things, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:29.080 taking away the lots of you know, uh, detritus that 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:33.000 we produce in our productive processes, and so Das Gupta 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.200 has has has generalized the prevailing theory in a new 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.560 kind of formulation which shows you how we really do 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.600 depend on nature. And what is essentially proposing is a 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.440 new form of accounting that would include UM that would 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.080 go would go beyond g d P, GPP generally just 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.760 you know, measures the things that economists think about the 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.720 human part of productivity. Yep, just got twenty seconds left. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.360 I'd let you go because I think it's like you 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.320 have to get into this, but twenty seconds. So take 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.360 away what do we have to do here? Right? So 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.560 the most of the most compelling point is that economics 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.680 has traditionally excluded nature from its accounting systems. We need 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.120 to include nature in our accounting systems. Governments around the 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.440 world need to start doing this um taling up the 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.080 degradation of natural resources and including that next to the 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.599 positives that come out of economic growth. It fits into 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.440 so many of the E. S G conversations we have 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.840 been having. Mark Buchanan Calmness for Bloomberg Opinion. Check it out. 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:36.160 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.200 Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. I don't know 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.480 if you know all of you and our listeners are 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.279 on Twitter the same way that I am. But something 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.159 crossed this morning that really caught my attention. Ed Young, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.600 who is a science writer at The Atlantic Um. He 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.039 gave a lot of popularity throughout the pandemic. He tweeted 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.520 this morning that he's taking a six month sabbatical starting 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.680 right now. He said that the three past three years 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.600 have been the most professionally meaningful of my life, but 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.480 they've also deeply broken me. The pandemic is an over. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.600 But I think after a long time spent staring into 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.640 the sun, I need to blink. This guy won the 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.400 Pulitzer Prize for explanatory journalism. He's got a book out, 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.840 a recent book out. A lot of people turned him 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.920 during the pandemic, and he also covered a lot of 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.280 healthcare workers who burned out during that time as well. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.120 It's something that he wrote about in his tweet threat 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.640 earlier today. So Mega, Go Go go. Well, this is 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.600 something we want to talk about burnout. And with us 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.920 is Dr Ian LUs Bader. He's back with US, clinical 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.680 professor of Medicine at and Yu Land going on the 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.800 phone in New York City, and uh Dr Lusbader, nice 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.320 to have you back here on Bloomberg. And I know 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.840 you've been looking at some research out of the Mayo Clinic. Um. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.200 First of all, have you felt burnout over the last 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.480 few years? You know many I see patients with more 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.960 burnout due to COVID and home restriction, the market, gyration's 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.000 work issues, but we're really seeing it in physicians and 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.800 I agree, I definitely all. I experienced some element of that, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.720 and there are a lot of reasons for doctors obviously 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.800 to stay engaged in enthusiastic. The risk of medical error 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.640 is very important. UH. And there's really a lot of 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.280 reasons that, you know, go into that. Uh. Many of 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:20.280 them are administrative duties, charting and administrative issues, things that 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.640 don't really focus on patient care. But we're seeing more 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.560 and more doctors with us. And as Tim said, there 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.040 are articles both of the New York Times just yesterday, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.120 UH from Mayo Clinic of various research that show really 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.600 two thirds of doctors have at least one symptom of Burnett. 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.319 And we're also seeing this in medical students and obviously 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.520 in nurses as well. You guys just all got to 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.360 do what my dentist does. I went to the dentist 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.400 this morning and he wasn't there. I had a different 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.439 dentist and I said, oh, where's where's the dentist And 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.280 he said, Oh, he doesn't work on Fridays. He's plays golf. 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.160 You're exactly A balance is important. I'm not wrong here. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.480 I'm kind of joking, but I'm not really joking wrong. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.240 Part of the issue is can you do that? Does 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.160 your employer or does your practice allow you to do that? 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.360 And that's not always the case. So burnout, we really 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:18.719 think of as emotional physical exhaustion, fatigue, depersonalization, where you 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.920 seem to care less about the job the patients. You 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.079 vent about working conditions, and as a result of that, 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.679 you're a less efficient, less efficacious doctor. You know, you're 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.880 not as focused on making a difference, and as a result, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.840 there are concerns about safety, you know, testing and so forth, 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.880 and a lot of doctors unfortunately, spend much of their 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.800 time getting approval for testing. You know, you feel the 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.599 patient needs a cat scan, you have to speak to 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.600 the insurance company and get approval for that. So there 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.280 are many obstacles besides dealing with COVID UH in the 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.720 emergency room. You know that intensity of very sick patients 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.200 the i C. You doctors have a very high level 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.760 of burnout with patient mortality that's gone up with Covidfortunately 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.079 those numbers are improving now. Dr Lust, But are a 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:07.760 lot of the stuff that you describe to me in 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:09.760 terms of the tasks that doctors have to do that 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.120 they weren't necessarily trained for in medical school, you know, 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.000 ordering things and dealing with insurance. These certain procedures are 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.400 those things that can be disrupted by technology. I mean, 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.880 does technology offer any hope for this. Yes, I do 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:29.560 think that with AI and UH, with more support, hopefully 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.000 technology will improve a lot of that. Right now, a 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.040 lot of it is physical labor, where you're documenting or 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.599 typing or dictating charts, are being on the phone to 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.560 get things approved. I agree with you. I think technology 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.160 can make a difference, but we need the vendors of 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.040 these electronic medical records to be engaged with it, to say, hey, 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.520 this is one of the needs that we have to address. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.080 Previously a lot of it was documentation about patient issues, 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.000 and UH, it's important. Technology has helped us. We have 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.480 checklists now in terms of what screening tests need to 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.319 be done, what vaccines need to be done. So the 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.599 dashboard you're looking at it the computer every day is 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.160 it's like a seven forty seven, A lot of a 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.079 lot of data coming at you and you need to 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.360 be sharp to deal with it. Hey, in just about 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.520 thirty seconds left year. So how do we make sure 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.520 that our doctors that we go to and maybe are 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.480 doing procedures for us aren't burned out? Is there a 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.439 question we should ask as a patient? Gosh, you know 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.520 you can ask that that question. Are you taking time 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.600 for yourself. Do you feel that you have a bit 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.679 of balance? Have you had a good night's sleep? Um? 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.319 I think it's nice that shows caring um and hopefully 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.920 the doctor is aware of that and tries to get 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.080 a bit of balance. Do more leadership, get flexible hours. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.079 Hopefully they can do it. But it's good that to 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.960 make people just more aware of it, including the doctors themselves. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.360 My dad used to have a check when he's going 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.079 into surgery and being wheeled and he's like, okay, so 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:54.920 what do we were operating on? Is it? The writer 0:11:55.400 --> 0:12:00.600 like them it before they would go in. Doctor las Beda, 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.040 have a great weekend, Clinical Professor of Medicine at n 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.400 y U Landgoing Medical Center. On the phone in New 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.600 York City, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.040 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.440 We're also watching a story that's among the most read 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.439 it's the Bloomberg Big Take, and it also happens to 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.439 be in the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. It 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.480 was about how the world is fearful when it comes 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.080 to the fate of the all important Brazilian rainforest. As 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.960 those citizens they are getting ready to a to vote 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.840 really over the weekend presidential election. Yeah, we got right 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.040 now joining us Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.320 He's with us right now in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.839 Andrew Rosatti is also with us. He's Latin America reporter 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:43.800 for Bloomberg News. He does join us on the phone 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.880 from Rio Carol. As you mentioned this story. Andrew's story 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.000 featured in the new issue of Business Week magazine, available 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.400 on news stands, on the Bloomberg Terminal and at Bloomberg 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.120 dot com slash business Week. Joel, we got an election 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.280 coming up in Brazil, big one, big one. Uh. And 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:00.720 you know, one of the things that we talked about 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.800 who we were framing um this story and how we 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.160 wanted to approach it was there are so many elections 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.720 around the world where you might not know the candidates 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.040 and is in American I'll be honest, like I was, like, 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.280 Liz Trust's who's that, right? And yet here's this the 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.800 only one I definitely knew. Well, I know I know 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:24.560 who she is now, but uh, you know, here here's Brazil, um. Uh, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.800 one of the biggest economies in Latin America obviously, UM, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.520 it has had um this amazing name recognition between these 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.959 two candidates, between Bolsonaro who's the incumbent and Lula who 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.280 was the former president, did some jail time and is 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.240 currently sort of a head in the in the polls, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.079 and we're gonna see this go down at least for 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.880 the first round this weekend, UM, and all eyes are 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.120 on that. So one of the things we just realized 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.760 here was that there's this international interest in Brazil and 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.839 that made us wonder, you know, why, why is that? 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.480 And part of that, I think is, um the Amazon self, right, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.480 and so you've got Bolsonaro whose whose policies have been 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:09.360 basically turning Amazon into farmland, and Lula presents a little 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.160 bit of a counterbalance to that, and the fate of 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.880 the Amazon in in some ways could come down to 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.319 this election. So, so, Andrew, how is this playing out 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.600 inside Brazil? Because it's a little different for Brazilians than 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:27.560 it is for everybody else who's watching from the from abroad. Right, Yeah, 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.400 that's correct, I would say for this election is very 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.040 very much what the analysts are saying is and the 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.520 polls are right, it is ultimately could be a rejection 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:43.400 of Bullsonaro. Lots of Brazilians aren't happy with his treatment 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.120 of the Amazon, that is correct, But on the ground, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.080 especially in the big cities like Rio Salfaulo and then 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.000 a lot of the countryside, the fear is more pocket issues. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.680 Inflation is very high, and one of the big themes 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.240 of this election that Lua was really hitting on is 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.720 the issue unger. You know, we're seeing hunger rise two 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.480 levels and then by some studies, more than the biggest 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.000 in a decade and a half, but there's many as 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.800 thirty years and it's really common in tameblell See to 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.480 see Brazilian dummage into the trash panhandling and big cities, 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.520 and then on the countryside to you know, even even 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.320 royal farmers are really struggling to UH ends meet. And 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.480 that's really what the biggest fears in the selection is, 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.600 you know, not just this uh push to get Bolton 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.400 out of power, but how people are going to food 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.640 on the table. Andrew thought it was really interesting in 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.160 the piece, how you write about how the world views 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.560 the Amazon and what the world has been saying for 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.600 the last few years. I mean, even gosh um when 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.520 when I was in grade school, remember we would do 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.920 those things where you'd adopt part of a forest, uh 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.520 in in the Amazon in Brazil, um and and and 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:58.040 you know it's essentially they're saying, it's you know, it's 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:00.560 Brazilians are saying, hey, you got I did this to 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.120 your own for us, why can't we do it to ours? Right? 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.640 I am my colleagues that went out to kind of 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.760 the frontier is you know, they really and the people 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.520 they talk to kind of say that they want a 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.640 piece of this, They want the piece of this, and 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.920 they feel this theirs and they can make this. It's 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.200 a profitable farm land, and they feel that they have 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:21.960 a right, you know, they have a right to. And 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:27.240 I think under both snaro um gutting out of environmental 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.120 agencies and this reluctance to crack down, it is really 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.200 really you know, given new precedents to this, and I 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.480 think it's especially in these frontier states. He's incredibly popular 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.200 for this reason that it's just kind of you know, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.400 las fair libertarian and the like it's yours take it, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.840 you know, we won't stop you. It's the new frontier 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.920 very much so. So okay at this point, and we 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.600 know the importance of the rainforest, and it's not just 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.840 for Brazil, but it's for the world, especially as we 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.400 look at hurricanes and the devastation in terms of climate change. 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.520 Having said that, do we have any idea of who 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.240 might ultimately win when all is said and done and 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:09.400 just got about thirty seconds. Yeah, all major polls are 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.480 pulled pointing to a Lula victory, which is you know, 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.320 he's leading anywhere from seven to fourteen points depending on 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.359 the pollster. The biggest question is not if he will win. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:21.960 I think rather when you will win. And there's a 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.520 real chance that he should win on Sunday outright if 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.640 he gets more than a simple majority of pulling out 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.600 n all and blank votes. You know how it goes down. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:35.920 It's like the world, the fate of the world, and 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.480 the balance no pressure in Brazil. We've had such heavy 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:43.119 climate stuff today this week. Uh, and this is why 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.680 you've got to watch elections around the world and policy 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.640 moves around the world. Um, we gotta leave it there. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.399 Andrew Rosatti, Bloomberg News Latin American reporter, thank you so 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.920 much joining us on the phone from Rio along with 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.479 the editor of Bloomberg Business Week till Weber that new issue. 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.480 It is out on newsstands, on the Bloomberg again, online 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:00.800 at Bloomberg dot com, slash business. We check it out. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.560 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.040 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.359 Carbly wanna Bloomberg News. She's also produced for our business 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.040 Week team. We love her well. She's reporting out today, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.280 Tim that the money flowing out of crypto related funds 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.440 in the third quarter has slowed down, a sign that 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.399 many Barrish investors may have already piled out of the 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.280 risky asset class. So just a little bit of context 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.360 in terms of the crypto market. So what does that mean? 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.399 Is that is the floor end? That's that's the question. 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.920 Let's go to Rob Frasca, managing partner Cosimo Ventures. He 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.640 joins us on the phone from Massachusetts this afternoon. Rob, 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.920 how are you. I'm great, How are you hey? We're 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.600 doing well. It's it's good to have you with us. 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.960 Um you really tokenized VC fund. It invests in early 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.399 stage blockchain projects. You're looking around the landscape right now. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.560 One thing that has actually surprised me, Carol and you 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.160 referred to this is that despite the selling that we've 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.440 seen in the equity market, we haven't seen that in 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:03.080 the crypto market. Same extent um. Rob lay in on this, 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.240 I mean, do you think we found the floor for crypto? 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.920 The bottom is in? I do. I do. There's some 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.920 really exciting stuff going on in the crypto world, and 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.800 you know a lot of times what happens is it's early, right, So, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.880 and that's the thing we can't you can't overlook, right, 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.119 is that crypto is is very very early in the cycle. 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:27.040 And so we saw pretty a pretty bad market downturn 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.720 uh so far this year, and um, you know, there's 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.159 a lot of money sitting on the sidelines, a lot 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.600 of enture money sitting there ready to come into really 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:43.200 exciting companies and exciting protocols. I kind of think of 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.280 it a lot like you know, the early days of 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.119 the Internet, right, you know, we saw we saw a boom, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.040 we saw bust, and then we saw incredible boom again. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.160 So you know, if you really believe in this long 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.159 term focus of what blockchain crypto represents, this is just 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.280 kind of one of those little cycles, if you will, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.280 in the whole scheme of things and from what I'm understanding, 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.840 you are a bull when it comes to the blockchain. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.480 Tell us you're thinking, whine, How does that translate into 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:16.560 specific investments? Yeah? So, so ultimately, when you think about blockchain, 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.159 what we're really doing here is we're creating an entire 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.960 new settlement layer for all kinds of transactions, and we're 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.159 doing it in a very decentralized way. Right. So instead 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.880 of having a bank clear the transaction or a brokerage 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.440 firm clayer of transaction, what blockchain does is it uses 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.840 a network and everybody on that network is helping clear 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.840 the transaction. So early on, you know, we were like, man, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.720 does this really work? Right? Can you do it? And 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.440 do it in a trustful way? And what and what 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.280 bitcoin really showed is, holy cow, we can do this. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.479 We can move money all over the round, value all 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.120 over the world. And so now I think what's happened 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.480 is all of the bigger institutions, bigger, bigger financial players, 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.040 they're all jumping in saying, wait a minute, I've got 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.920 to use this technology. You know, are our little fun 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.280 We have this little venture fund. It's tokenized. Well, what 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.840 the heck does tokenized? Name? All? It really means is 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.520 is that we have a fund and it's digital shares 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.680 are traded on a blockchain, and so anybody in the 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.679 world can can kind of, you know, trade those funds 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.119 and provide liquidity. Well, now you got right, and you know, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:29.960 and I used to go out and talk about this, 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:31.960 people like what the heck is that? Right? Well, I 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.879 don't know if you guys saw, but kk are just 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.760 announced that they're token izing. They're one of their big 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.399 healthcare funds, right, so so you can see, you know, 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.919 the big institutions now kind of woke up and said, wow, uh, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.800 this isn't you know? This is key? Right, This is 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.919 a key piece of technology. I gotta tell you, though, 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.879 I still I'm so skeptical. And I remained skeptical of 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.920 this because in my everyday life, despite the fact that 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.360 blockchain technology has been around for what a dozen years, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.160 we're not interacting with it yet daily, We're not even 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.640 I don't know if I've ever interacted with it. Why 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.919