WEBVTT - Moby Reprised 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:24.636 Pushkin. Moby maybe one of the most highly recognizable dance 0:00:24.716 --> 0:00:28.236 music artists of all time, but he's also a talented 0:00:28.316 --> 0:00:32.316 multi hyphen it whose unconventional thirty year career includes massive 0:00:32.356 --> 0:00:36.036 success as a producer and DJ and notoriety as an 0:00:36.076 --> 0:00:41.396 animal rights activist. Moby's latest project, Raprise, is the greatest 0:00:41.436 --> 0:00:45.156 Hits album that revisits the highlights of his extensive catalog. 0:00:46.276 --> 0:00:49.236 The songs are rerecorded with the Budapest Art Orchestra and 0:00:49.436 --> 0:00:54.196 various vocalists like Jim James. Moby's most well known electronic 0:00:54.276 --> 0:00:59.476 songs are reimagined on Raprise into sparse, soul stirring compositions. 0:01:01.076 --> 0:01:04.436 On today's episode, we'll hear Rick Rubin and Moby reminisce 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:06.596 about their early punk rock days in New York City 0:01:07.036 --> 0:01:09.796 and the first time Moby ever heard house music while 0:01:09.876 --> 0:01:13.636 dancing in a club basement next to Prince. Moby also 0:01:13.676 --> 0:01:15.276 talks about what it was like to be buddies with 0:01:15.356 --> 0:01:18.676 David Bowie, getting sober, and why he decided to sell 0:01:18.716 --> 0:01:21.516 the big fancy castle he lived in all by himself. 0:01:25.556 --> 0:01:28.236 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:28.476 --> 0:01:37.436 I'm justin Richmonds. Here's a Rick rubin with Moby. I 0:01:37.516 --> 0:01:41.156 can tell from the window behind you that you're not 0:01:41.276 --> 0:01:44.356 in the house that I last visited you in. No 0:01:44.636 --> 0:01:47.436 I had this. I think of it like a Jay 0:01:47.516 --> 0:01:52.356 Gatsby epiphany. I was in this huge, crazy castle by myself, 0:01:53.396 --> 0:01:56.596 and I at one point asked myself, like, why do 0:01:56.716 --> 0:02:00.636 I live by myself in a giant castle? So I 0:02:01.076 --> 0:02:04.316 sold the big crazy castle and moved to this much simpler, 0:02:04.756 --> 0:02:08.916 prettier house in Los Felis, right by the observatory. Cool. 0:02:09.516 --> 0:02:12.676 Tell me a little bit about the experience of recognizing 0:02:12.716 --> 0:02:14.916 that moment. What was the moment like and did it 0:02:14.996 --> 0:02:18.156 happen at once? I mean, that's the thing with epiphanies. 0:02:18.596 --> 0:02:20.396 And I don't know if this has been your experience, 0:02:20.436 --> 0:02:23.516 but a lot of the epiphanies I've had have taken 0:02:23.556 --> 0:02:27.316 a long time to sort of come to fruition, and 0:02:27.356 --> 0:02:31.396 when I finally have them, they're so self evident, so's 0:02:31.516 --> 0:02:34.676 it builds for a long time, and then once you 0:02:34.796 --> 0:02:36.636 notice it, it's like, how did it take so long 0:02:36.676 --> 0:02:40.076 for me to see the elephant in the room? Essentially, yeah, 0:02:40.156 --> 0:02:42.196 kind of like you drop a brick on your foot 0:02:42.356 --> 0:02:45.036 three hundred times, and after the three hundredth time you 0:02:45.036 --> 0:02:47.276 think to yourself, maybe I should stop dropping a brick 0:02:47.316 --> 0:02:50.516 on my foot. So this time I was sitting at 0:02:50.516 --> 0:02:53.956 my kitchen table in the Crazy Castle, and I was, 0:02:53.996 --> 0:02:56.756 I don't know, checking Facebook or looking at CNN on 0:02:56.796 --> 0:02:59.716 my laptop, and I thought to myself, why do I 0:02:59.916 --> 0:03:05.596 need this giant castle to sit at my kitchen table 0:03:06.076 --> 0:03:08.756 and do emails? Because I don't have a family. I'm 0:03:08.796 --> 0:03:11.716 just one person. I was like, so why do I 0:03:11.756 --> 0:03:15.516 need a bunch of empty rooms that occasionally I go 0:03:15.596 --> 0:03:19.196 in and vacuum. So it's just a very a very 0:03:19.716 --> 0:03:25.036 self evident rational epiphany that said, I really liked that house, 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:29.876 that that crazy castle was a really cool crazy castle. Yeah, 0:03:29.956 --> 0:03:33.716 it amazes me a little bit that somehow I was 0:03:33.756 --> 0:03:37.596 ever able to live in a crazy cool castle. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:41.956 I'm glad you did. Actually feel like I feel like 0:03:41.996 --> 0:03:45.076 if anyone gets to live in a crazy cool castle, 0:03:45.116 --> 0:03:47.796 it might as well be you. And then I had 0:03:47.836 --> 0:03:50.996 a really an odd experience with the crazy cool Castle. 0:03:51.036 --> 0:03:53.156 After I lived in the crazy cool Castle is the 0:03:53.156 --> 0:03:58.716 man I sold it to had a brunch and invited 0:03:58.756 --> 0:04:02.036 me to the brunch. And this has some very funny 0:04:02.116 --> 0:04:03.836 name dropping in it, and So I went to this 0:04:03.876 --> 0:04:07.556 brunch and Robert Downey Junior was at the brunch. So 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:10.276 Robert Downey Jr. And I had been best friends when 0:04:10.316 --> 0:04:12.796 we were nine years old? Is that true? And I 0:04:12.876 --> 0:04:17.996 hadn't seen him since nineteen seventy four. And so by 0:04:18.196 --> 0:04:23.476 my selling the Giant Crazy Castle and then getting getting 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:27.036 invited back to this brunch, I somehow got reunited with 0:04:27.116 --> 0:04:31.036 my childhood best friend from nineteen seventy four. For some reason, 0:04:31.116 --> 0:04:33.636 I thought you grew up on the East Coast. I 0:04:33.676 --> 0:04:38.036 did in Connecticut. Oh? Is he from Connecticut? For two years? 0:04:38.116 --> 0:04:41.916 He lived in Darien, Connecticut, and then his family moved 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:45.076 to Essex, and I guess they might have moved back here. 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:49.396 But we lost touch in nineteen seventy four, nineteen seventy five, amazing. 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:53.116 Do you have any idea what year it was that 0:04:53.196 --> 0:04:56.916 we first ran into each other? Oh, I remember it exactly. 0:04:57.396 --> 0:05:02.916 When was that? It would have been June of nineteen 0:05:03.156 --> 0:05:10.196 eighty three in Stamford, Connecticut at the Anthrax. Believable, And 0:05:10.236 --> 0:05:12.756 I remember it clearly because it was like a sort 0:05:12.796 --> 0:05:16.516 of daytime show at the Anthrax. They had graffiti artists 0:05:16.596 --> 0:05:21.076 outside and there was this strange show and Hoes were 0:05:21.076 --> 0:05:25.276 the headliners, and my band was one of the earlier bands. 0:05:25.316 --> 0:05:28.436 And I remember Brian and Sean, who ran the Anthrax, 0:05:28.476 --> 0:05:31.276 came to me and asked if you could borrow my amp. 0:05:32.596 --> 0:05:35.796 I remember that, I remember, I remember borrowing your amp. 0:05:35.876 --> 0:05:38.276 That's the moment that I remember. But I didn't remember 0:05:38.316 --> 0:05:39.796 the name of the club, and I wouldn't have been 0:05:39.836 --> 0:05:41.796 able to figure out when it was, just because I'm 0:05:41.836 --> 0:05:46.116 not good with dates. But that's amazing that you remember that. 0:05:46.196 --> 0:05:49.236 I feel like we both came from we're birth from 0:05:49.276 --> 0:05:54.636 the same scene, and we've both had interesting journeys from 0:05:54.676 --> 0:05:59.556 that start, maybe not the most obvious journeys. I've always 0:05:59.556 --> 0:06:02.396 felt a kinship, like we're very much cut from the 0:06:02.396 --> 0:06:04.916 same cloth. Well, I mean, if you think about it, 0:06:04.996 --> 0:06:09.916 from the Anthrax was a completely illeite go punk rock 0:06:09.996 --> 0:06:14.476 club in Stamford, Connecticut. And Stamford, Connecticut has now become 0:06:14.516 --> 0:06:17.516 this global center of finance, but back then it was 0:06:17.556 --> 0:06:22.556 sort of like just a burned out rough neighborhood and 0:06:23.756 --> 0:06:25.756 it was a storefront and they had a little stage 0:06:25.796 --> 0:06:27.916 in the basement. So people might be thinking that this 0:06:27.956 --> 0:06:31.956 was some sort of big, slightly more glamorous, legitimate place like. No, 0:06:32.036 --> 0:06:36.356 it was an anarcho syndicant punk rock club and it 0:06:36.436 --> 0:06:39.876 was a tiny little basement as I recall, Oh, it 0:06:39.916 --> 0:06:44.116 was minuscule. Yeah, And then I remember you went to 0:06:44.276 --> 0:06:48.636 NYU with my friends Lindsay Anderson and John Farnsworth. Yes, 0:06:48.996 --> 0:06:52.916 And here's a really funny memory I have. It would 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:58.636 have been I guess nineteen eighty four at some point, Lindsay, 0:06:58.716 --> 0:07:02.396 because I had just started djaying, and Lindsay came to 0:07:02.516 --> 0:07:06.476 me and asked if I knew anyone who could help 0:07:06.516 --> 0:07:11.316 her friend Rick get a djaying job. Really, yeah, she 0:07:11.356 --> 0:07:13.636 said that. She said her friend Rick was looking for 0:07:13.756 --> 0:07:16.996 DJ gigs and did I know anyone who was looking 0:07:17.036 --> 0:07:22.036 for DJs? Wow? Amazing, Like maybe that was autumn of eight, 0:07:22.036 --> 0:07:23.836 I don't know, at some point in nineteen eighty four, 0:07:23.876 --> 0:07:25.516 and then I think the next time I ran into 0:07:25.916 --> 0:07:29.236 was at Angelica's kitchen buying vegan food. Yeah, And there 0:07:29.236 --> 0:07:32.076 were a few there were a few other sightings over 0:07:32.116 --> 0:07:35.956 the years. Yeah. I remember when I really got into 0:07:36.036 --> 0:07:39.956 the initial surge of rave music, when it was going 0:07:39.996 --> 0:07:43.996 on and feeling like the energy of the raves that 0:07:44.036 --> 0:07:46.516 I was going to these like illegal weekend raves with 0:07:47.116 --> 0:07:51.396 tons of people out in the desert, feeling like the 0:07:51.676 --> 0:07:55.316 energy was the first new energy that I was excited 0:07:55.316 --> 0:07:59.716 by since hip hop music. And after going to many 0:07:59.716 --> 0:08:03.396 of these things and realizing that from my perspective, which 0:08:03.476 --> 0:08:07.116 is very much music rooted in a personality, whether it 0:08:07.116 --> 0:08:09.476 be the personality of a band or the personality of 0:08:09.596 --> 0:08:14.076 person that was for the most part of faceless movement. 0:08:14.996 --> 0:08:21.636 And then I saw you perform in that, bringing a 0:08:21.716 --> 0:08:29.116 punk rock state of theatrical performance into the rave dance world, 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:31.596 and it was so exciting for me and it made sense. 0:08:31.836 --> 0:08:33.756 And I've also found over the years that the people 0:08:33.756 --> 0:08:36.196 who made the most interesting dance music were the people 0:08:36.236 --> 0:08:39.236 who started by making other kinds of music and then 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:41.276 found their way into dance music, as opposed to people 0:08:41.276 --> 0:08:45.476 who started in dance music, which historically there are less 0:08:45.516 --> 0:08:48.516 cases where I find that that music interesting. Yeah, I 0:08:48.516 --> 0:08:51.716 mean it was strange coming from a sort of punk 0:08:51.796 --> 0:08:55.796 rock new wave background. And then similar to you, in 0:08:55.836 --> 0:08:58.636 the early eighties, I got really excited by hip hop, 0:08:58.676 --> 0:09:02.396 you know, listening to mixtapes from BLS and then I 0:09:02.436 --> 0:09:06.236 started djaying and I was playing all this eclectic music, 0:09:06.276 --> 0:09:10.676 you know, from hip hop to Johnny Cash to Nitzereb 0:09:10.836 --> 0:09:12.956 to just you know, all over the place, and house 0:09:13.076 --> 0:09:16.636 music started and it excited me in a way that 0:09:16.716 --> 0:09:19.796 dance music never had, you know, I mean dance music, 0:09:19.836 --> 0:09:23.636 to be honest with you, I viewed it very suspiciously 0:09:24.596 --> 0:09:28.636 up until the mid eighties, you know, and then all 0:09:28.676 --> 0:09:33.116 of a sudden I realized, oh, part of my suspicion 0:09:33.196 --> 0:09:36.396 about it, part of my apprehension around dance music was 0:09:36.476 --> 0:09:43.316 actually cultural that it represented like cultural morais and approaches 0:09:43.396 --> 0:09:46.076 to music that were just very for a white kid 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:48.556 from the suburbs. They were just really foreign to me. 0:09:49.236 --> 0:09:53.116 But then I realized just because they were foreign, it 0:09:53.156 --> 0:09:56.316 didn't mean that I had to have the suspicion around them. 0:09:56.636 --> 0:09:58.156 And I don't know if this is you found this 0:09:58.236 --> 0:10:01.276 to be the case, but I think that dance Atterria 0:10:02.116 --> 0:10:06.196 played a big role in turning me from like a 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:09.396 suburban white kid who just wanted to listen to Black 0:10:09.436 --> 0:10:13.556 Flag and joy Division into someone who was open to 0:10:15.076 --> 0:10:18.596 so many different musical idioms, you know, because I would 0:10:18.596 --> 0:10:21.876 go to dance Ateria to see the Bad Brains or 0:10:22.076 --> 0:10:24.076 to see Mission of Burma, or even like the place 0:10:24.116 --> 0:10:27.996 like the Peppermint Lounge, and then the DJ beforehand would 0:10:27.996 --> 0:10:31.156 be playing hip hop and the DJ afterwards would be 0:10:31.196 --> 0:10:35.516 playing gay disco, and I was like, well, I revere 0:10:35.716 --> 0:10:39.836 this scene so clearly I need to learn from what 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:44.076 they're doing. You know. The incubator of Lower Manhattan in 0:10:44.116 --> 0:10:48.356 the early eighties into the mid eighties really was I 0:10:48.356 --> 0:10:49.836 don't know. I feel like in a way that that 0:10:49.836 --> 0:10:52.996 that saved me from just being a cliched white kid 0:10:53.036 --> 0:10:56.516 from the suburbs who only wanted to listen to guitar 0:10:56.676 --> 0:11:00.116 rock from Athens, Georgia. So you're going to danceteria, you're 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:03.356 exposed to dance music in a way that's relatable to you. 0:11:03.756 --> 0:11:06.316 Can you remember, like your gateway drug, what was the 0:11:06.356 --> 0:11:11.716 first dance oriented artists that you felt like this is 0:11:11.756 --> 0:11:15.476 for me. That's a wonderful question, because there was the 0:11:15.556 --> 0:11:21.716 sort of dance adjacent stuff that I liked, but I 0:11:21.796 --> 0:11:23.916 hadn't even registered that it was dance music, you know. 0:11:23.956 --> 0:11:27.156 I remember, like one of the best record buying days 0:11:27.356 --> 0:11:30.876 of my entire life was in nineteen eighty two. I 0:11:30.916 --> 0:11:33.476 was in a record store in DC and I bought 0:11:33.476 --> 0:11:37.556 the Message and Minor Threat out of Step. Good day. 0:11:37.956 --> 0:11:41.076 That's a good day. But it hadn't even registered to 0:11:41.116 --> 0:11:45.876 me that the message was quote unquote dance music. I 0:11:45.916 --> 0:11:48.716 was just like I'd heard it on a Mister Magic 0:11:48.916 --> 0:11:51.596 mixtape and I was like, wow, I really liked I 0:11:51.636 --> 0:11:54.476 loved the lyrics. I really love this. But the first 0:11:54.556 --> 0:11:56.796 dance track do you know what it might have been? 0:11:57.996 --> 0:12:01.036 And part of it was because it didn't make any 0:12:01.076 --> 0:12:03.716 sense to me until I fell in love with it. 0:12:03.916 --> 0:12:06.236 Do you remember the song set it off by Strafe? 0:12:06.636 --> 0:12:11.396 Of course incredible And I remember like my friend Diana 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:13.516 brought it to me when I was DJing. She said, 0:12:13.556 --> 0:12:16.716 you need to play this and I was like, it's 0:12:16.796 --> 0:12:20.956 nine minutes long, no one knows it and it was 0:12:21.036 --> 0:12:25.396 so poorly recorded and so poorly mixed. Yeah, but it 0:12:25.436 --> 0:12:28.316 was flawless. And I think that was the record where 0:12:28.316 --> 0:12:31.876 I was like, Oh, something is happening here that I 0:12:31.956 --> 0:12:34.556 need to be aware of because this is you know, 0:12:34.596 --> 0:12:36.516 at the time, I was also listening to, you know, 0:12:36.516 --> 0:12:41.556 like nice indie rock like Aztec Camera, really pleasant guitar music. 0:12:42.036 --> 0:12:45.156 But I heard this and I was like, this is special. 0:12:45.316 --> 0:12:47.796 You know, the guitar music I'm listening to is very 0:12:47.796 --> 0:12:51.556 well made and it's good, but it's not this, Like 0:12:51.596 --> 0:12:55.956 this is this is different and fascinating, amazing. I knew 0:12:55.956 --> 0:12:58.396 exactly what you're talking about. There was this moment in 0:12:58.436 --> 0:13:02.876 New York where there was a new form of dance 0:13:02.996 --> 0:13:06.956 music being created. I don't know what it's referred to, 0:13:06.996 --> 0:13:09.236 the subgenre, I don't know what we call it, but 0:13:09.316 --> 0:13:12.476 Strafe is a key piece of this eighties New York 0:13:12.476 --> 0:13:16.996 club music. It was going on on a parallel trip 0:13:17.036 --> 0:13:20.396 of hip hop. I don't know which was influencing which 0:13:20.956 --> 0:13:25.636 it was very rooted in the hip hop language, but 0:13:25.756 --> 0:13:29.476 it wasn't rap music. But the beats might be interchangeable 0:13:29.556 --> 0:13:33.156 between the New York club music and the early hip 0:13:33.196 --> 0:13:36.076 hop music. And it was a really exciting time for 0:13:36.876 --> 0:13:40.956 dance music. Yeah, and then you would have these hits 0:13:40.996 --> 0:13:45.796 that were only hits in geographically tiny parts of the world, 0:13:46.316 --> 0:13:48.436 you know, Like you could play set it Off by 0:13:48.476 --> 0:13:52.556 Streife and an entire room full of people would scream 0:13:52.556 --> 0:13:55.476 at the top of their lungs in Lower Manhattan, and 0:13:55.516 --> 0:13:57.836 you'd go ten miles away from Lower Manhattan, no one 0:13:57.836 --> 0:14:01.316 has heard this song. Yeah, it was so regional and fascinating. 0:14:01.316 --> 0:14:03.636 Early house music was a little bit like that. Like 0:14:03.676 --> 0:14:06.956 there were some songs like like break for Love, by Rays. 0:14:07.076 --> 0:14:08.436 I don't know if you ever knew that it was 0:14:08.476 --> 0:14:11.876 an early seminal house track that was a massive hit 0:14:12.156 --> 0:14:15.596 in the house music world in New York City. Outside 0:14:15.596 --> 0:14:18.396 of that, no one, No one knew what it was. 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:22.996 What's interesting also about the Strafe song. It was as 0:14:23.076 --> 0:14:26.156 big of a club song as there's ever been in 0:14:26.196 --> 0:14:28.716 New York and for as big of a hit as 0:14:28.756 --> 0:14:33.716 it was, I'm guessing almost no one owned the record 0:14:33.836 --> 0:14:36.356 except DJs who would play it at the club. Yeah, 0:14:36.436 --> 0:14:40.516 no one had that record. You know, they were not fans, 0:14:40.556 --> 0:14:43.076 didn't have that record because that was not the nature 0:14:43.116 --> 0:14:45.276 of that culture. You went to the club and you 0:14:45.356 --> 0:14:47.796 heard that there because that's where it was, you know, 0:14:47.876 --> 0:14:50.356 that's where that was. It wasn't meant to be listened 0:14:50.356 --> 0:14:53.316 to in your bedroom. Yeah, it was like or you 0:14:53.356 --> 0:14:56.196 heard it on Hot ninety seven on a Friday night, yeah, 0:14:56.316 --> 0:14:58.716 or Kiss or BLS. But yeah, you're absolutely right. And 0:14:58.756 --> 0:15:01.156 I mean that's one of the things with dance music 0:15:01.236 --> 0:15:03.956 in general, because I was growing up, I was used 0:15:03.996 --> 0:15:08.236 to music that lived everywhere. You know, like you could 0:15:08.276 --> 0:15:10.996 listen to LEDs Eppelin at a party. You could also 0:15:11.036 --> 0:15:12.916 listen to led Zeppelin in the morning while you were 0:15:12.916 --> 0:15:17.916 making breakfast, whereas a lot of electronic music was so 0:15:18.636 --> 0:15:21.156 in a way site specific, like even to this day, 0:15:21.196 --> 0:15:25.716 like there's there's club music that I love at a 0:15:25.756 --> 0:15:28.436 big event with fifty thousand people that I would never 0:15:28.476 --> 0:15:31.036 in a million years want to take into my home. Yeah, 0:15:31.156 --> 0:15:33.476 but I'm now I'm really curious about You're right because 0:15:33.476 --> 0:15:38.196 that genre it was basically dance music. It was like 0:15:38.356 --> 0:15:44.476 post disco, prehouse music. Yes, and it didn't know what 0:15:44.516 --> 0:15:47.476 it was. It didn't have any like there was no 0:15:47.796 --> 0:15:50.916 conformity to certain bpms or anything. It was just this 0:15:51.516 --> 0:15:54.596 free floating, slightly nebulous dance music and it was a 0:15:54.676 --> 0:15:59.396 really fascinating time. It was a lot more experimental because 0:15:59.396 --> 0:16:02.036 there was freestyle. If you remember freestyle, you know, which 0:16:02.116 --> 0:16:06.196 was great, but freestyle was a very specific, regimented BPM 0:16:06.236 --> 0:16:09.596 in genre. Yeah, but this would have like this. This 0:16:09.636 --> 0:16:12.076 was also the music that Madonna really blossomed out of, 0:16:12.156 --> 0:16:16.636 like she was part of that culture and then transcended it. 0:16:16.676 --> 0:16:20.476 But that was really the early Madonna fit really into 0:16:20.516 --> 0:16:25.156 that New York dance club mode as well as like 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:31.836 AEIOU or Evelyn Champagne King or Lisa Lisa. Yeah, I 0:16:31.876 --> 0:16:33.916 haven't thought. I haven't thought of Lisa Lisa and such 0:16:33.916 --> 0:16:35.756 a Lisa Lisa and the cult jam because it was 0:16:35.796 --> 0:16:39.076 like she had roughly the same acronym as LLL cool J. 0:16:39.636 --> 0:16:44.356 But it's funny that you mentioned Aeiou by Ebanosen because 0:16:44.396 --> 0:16:50.516 I just recently rediscovered that song and video. If you're bored, 0:16:51.396 --> 0:16:53.876 go take a look at it and read the lyrics. 0:16:54.236 --> 0:16:59.716 I would posit the strangest song in Western pop music history. 0:17:00.156 --> 0:17:05.356 Like the lyrics are so phenomenal and they make absolutely 0:17:05.396 --> 0:17:09.036 no sense. It's like a grad student dissertation on semiotic 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:12.196 while a guys talking about trying to pick up a 0:17:12.236 --> 0:17:16.316 girl at a cafe. Amazing. I had completely forgotten about 0:17:16.316 --> 0:17:18.436 that song. It's just it's but that you're right that 0:17:18.516 --> 0:17:22.716 that weird incubator of New York that's so much, so 0:17:22.796 --> 0:17:25.756 much music, so much art, so much culture came out 0:17:25.756 --> 0:17:29.836 of because it was just everybody was influencing everybody else, 0:17:30.556 --> 0:17:33.756 and it was kind of like everyone was open to everything. Yeah, 0:17:34.156 --> 0:17:39.116 it was breakdancing music before rap music. That was the 0:17:39.236 --> 0:17:42.356 music that would people would break dance with. I want 0:17:42.356 --> 0:17:44.076 to say with because you didn't really break dance to 0:17:44.276 --> 0:17:47.276 music you break dance with music. Yeah, you know, I 0:17:47.276 --> 0:17:49.876 mean think of Blondie, you know, coming out of that 0:17:49.916 --> 0:17:51.756 scene as well, going back a little bit more into 0:17:51.796 --> 0:17:55.596 the late seventies. But yeah, I'm really grateful that I 0:17:55.676 --> 0:17:58.956 grew up within driving distance of New York and I 0:17:58.996 --> 0:18:02.036 could be exposed to that or also within radio distance. 0:18:02.836 --> 0:18:07.796 It's also interesting that another thing that we share is 0:18:07.836 --> 0:18:11.556 that we're both suburban kids who had access to New 0:18:11.636 --> 0:18:14.916 York City, which is really different than kids who grew 0:18:14.956 --> 0:18:17.516 up in New York City because the kids who grew 0:18:17.596 --> 0:18:21.316 up in New York City didn't have that suburban experience 0:18:21.836 --> 0:18:26.436 that's more rooted in America. Like our experience is much 0:18:26.436 --> 0:18:29.396 closer to what the American experiences than kids who grew 0:18:29.436 --> 0:18:31.356 up in New York City. Yeah. And I was born 0:18:31.396 --> 0:18:33.196 in New York, but I grew up in Connecticut, and 0:18:33.236 --> 0:18:35.796 I would meet people who grew up in the city 0:18:36.556 --> 0:18:38.356 and I would just be amazed, like they were a 0:18:38.396 --> 0:18:41.396 different species. I was like, you were born like so 0:18:41.436 --> 0:18:46.196 far up the cool ladder than I will ever attain to. Yeah, 0:18:46.236 --> 0:18:48.796 because it just seemed like the idea that they would 0:18:48.836 --> 0:18:52.556 do normal things, especially in the seventies, you know, in 0:18:52.596 --> 0:18:56.716 the most dangerous, darkest place in the world. They would 0:18:56.796 --> 0:19:01.516 be going to elementary school, they would be having sleepovers, 0:19:01.596 --> 0:19:04.356 they would be buying ice cream, And I was like, 0:19:04.396 --> 0:19:07.396 you did that in New York? Like, how did people 0:19:07.476 --> 0:19:11.516 manage to have childhoods in New York City? You know, 0:19:11.556 --> 0:19:15.796 when you're like dodging muggers and addicts and crazy people. 0:19:16.916 --> 0:19:22.116 And from a musical perspective, something like being able to 0:19:22.196 --> 0:19:28.116 like led Zeppelin was essentially a suburban thing. Like led 0:19:28.156 --> 0:19:30.716 Zeppelin wasn't cool enough to listen to if you grew 0:19:30.796 --> 0:19:34.676 up in Manhattan. It was just a different taste. It 0:19:34.716 --> 0:19:38.236 was too mainstream from Manhattan. Yeah, I mean I do 0:19:38.276 --> 0:19:41.396 remember meeting people who like, by the time they were eighteen, 0:19:41.436 --> 0:19:43.556 if they'd grown up in the city, they were done. 0:19:43.556 --> 0:19:46.276 They were jaded. Yeah, Like they've been going to clubs 0:19:46.276 --> 0:19:49.236 since they were thirteen. They had gone to rehab when 0:19:49.276 --> 0:19:52.236 they were fifteen. You know, they had started their first 0:19:52.276 --> 0:19:55.196 band when they're sixteen and broken up and gotten their 0:19:55.236 --> 0:19:57.836 first record deal at seventeen. So by eighteen they were 0:19:57.876 --> 0:20:02.036 like ready to move to New Mexico and RETIREE. What 0:20:02.116 --> 0:20:04.556 was the first punk show you ever saw? Oh? So 0:20:04.796 --> 0:20:09.276 this is I made some good choices early on My 0:20:09.396 --> 0:20:12.796 first real concert was Yes at Madison Square Garden in 0:20:12.916 --> 0:20:17.036 seventy eight, and I love Yes unapologetically. Maybe less so 0:20:17.156 --> 0:20:20.596 with the Trevor Horn era, but like early, like close 0:20:20.636 --> 0:20:23.116 to the edge. Yes, I just still think it's flawless. 0:20:23.836 --> 0:20:26.836 My first punk rock show and I got really lucky 0:20:27.236 --> 0:20:30.196 was Fear at the Mud Club. Wow, that's a great one. 0:20:30.276 --> 0:20:33.076 I think I was there. I think I was fifteen, 0:20:33.396 --> 0:20:38.036 or maybe it just turned sixteen yea, and yeah it was. 0:20:38.676 --> 0:20:41.116 It was phenomenal. And then after that we discovered great 0:20:41.156 --> 0:20:44.636 Guilder Sleeves. We discovered A seven because my friends and 0:20:44.676 --> 0:20:47.476 I were from the suburbs and we knew nothing, so 0:20:47.516 --> 0:20:50.796 we thought A seven was a concert venue. And again 0:20:50.836 --> 0:20:52.916 to put it in perspective for anyone listening, A seven 0:20:53.036 --> 0:20:54.636 was another. It was a hole in the wall dive. 0:20:54.716 --> 0:20:57.476 It was a bar with a little stage, and we 0:20:57.556 --> 0:21:01.396 went there to see one of my favorite punk rock bands, Krout. Yeah, 0:21:01.396 --> 0:21:05.316 And so we thought, okay, Krout and maybe the Cromags 0:21:05.396 --> 0:21:07.476 or Burfie's Law or someone was playing at A seven, 0:21:07.476 --> 0:21:09.476 to like, We're gonna go to A seven and see 0:21:09.516 --> 0:21:12.676 this show. We got there at nine. Bar wasn't even 0:21:12.676 --> 0:21:15.516 open yet, Finally the doors opened nine thirty or ten. 0:21:15.636 --> 0:21:19.916 We go in and we ask the bartender do you 0:21:19.956 --> 0:21:22.476 know when Kraut are playing? And he said, well, that's 0:21:22.556 --> 0:21:25.756 my band. Turns out Dougie, the guitar players also the bartender, 0:21:25.956 --> 0:21:28.116 and he says, and we're probably gonna go on around two. 0:21:29.956 --> 0:21:32.476 Keep in mind, we're sixteen year old kids from the suburbs. 0:21:32.516 --> 0:21:35.916 We didn't even know two am existed, like two am. 0:21:35.956 --> 0:21:39.796 No one was ever awake at two am, like, let 0:21:39.796 --> 0:21:43.276 alone playing a show. But we stayed up and we waited, 0:21:43.796 --> 0:21:45.996 and we saw Krout at A seven with a bunch 0:21:45.996 --> 0:21:49.756 of other bands I don't remember. Amazing, yeah, a seven. 0:21:49.796 --> 0:21:52.276 I saw the Swans at a seven. That was really good. 0:21:53.996 --> 0:21:56.636 We could go down so many rabbit holes about genres, 0:21:56.636 --> 0:22:00.836 but that mid to late eighties noise genre in New York. 0:22:01.356 --> 0:22:06.036 You know, diamonda Glass and the Swans and the Birthday Party. 0:22:06.156 --> 0:22:09.316 And I got to see the Birthday Party play at 0:22:09.796 --> 0:22:12.396 the club called the Underground. Do you remember the Underground? 0:22:12.876 --> 0:22:15.196 I remember the name, but I never went there. Yeah, 0:22:15.236 --> 0:22:16.956 it was it was. There would be no reason for 0:22:16.956 --> 0:22:19.476 you to go, it would. They've had very few acts 0:22:19.516 --> 0:22:21.756 that we would ever go to see but the Birthday 0:22:21.756 --> 0:22:23.956 Party happened to be playing there, so I went and 0:22:24.556 --> 0:22:28.036 I was one of maybe twelve people in the room 0:22:28.516 --> 0:22:31.556 to see the show, and the plug got pulled on 0:22:31.596 --> 0:22:34.596 them after the second song. I love them like Prayers 0:22:34.636 --> 0:22:36.116 on Fire. I think it's just one of the most 0:22:36.676 --> 0:22:40.076 flawless records. Beautiful. But I actually went back and re 0:22:40.196 --> 0:22:42.956 listened to it and it's still great. But I don't 0:22:42.996 --> 0:22:47.196 know how they came to be because they're from Australia, 0:22:47.276 --> 0:22:49.716 and Australia is a wonderful place. But Australia is like 0:22:50.716 --> 0:22:55.996 sunshine and blonde people and happiness, and you just wonder, like, 0:22:56.236 --> 0:23:01.596 what in Australia created the birthday party? I'm glad it happened. Yeah. 0:23:01.796 --> 0:23:04.556 Have you spent much chime in Australia, Yeah, I have 0:23:04.676 --> 0:23:07.076 to say so. I got sober about thirteen years ago, 0:23:07.956 --> 0:23:12.396 pre sobriety. Australia was absolutely my favorite place in the world, 0:23:12.476 --> 0:23:15.116 Like as far as a place to go out and 0:23:15.316 --> 0:23:19.396 just be a carefree, happy, go lucky alcoholic, Australia was 0:23:19.436 --> 0:23:22.676 pretty special. When we come back, Mobi talks to Rick 0:23:22.716 --> 0:23:29.156 Rubin about getting sober. We're back with more of Rick 0:23:29.196 --> 0:23:32.836 Rubin's conversation with Mobby, tell me the story of getting sober. 0:23:33.676 --> 0:23:35.716 It's similar to what we were talking about at the beginning. 0:23:35.756 --> 0:23:39.276 It's sort of like the self evident epiphany that just 0:23:39.356 --> 0:23:42.916 takes you a very long time to realize. So I'd 0:23:42.956 --> 0:23:45.836 started drinking and doing drugs when I was ten. My 0:23:45.916 --> 0:23:48.276 mom and her boyfriends used to do a lot of drugs, 0:23:48.276 --> 0:23:50.996 so I'd steal drugs from them, and then I started 0:23:51.036 --> 0:23:56.076 drinking and had bouts of sobriety, but kept drinking and 0:23:56.196 --> 0:24:01.276 doing drugs up until thirteen years ago. And honestly, like 0:24:01.996 --> 0:24:06.396 the consequences of drinking and doing drugs just kept getting 0:24:06.436 --> 0:24:09.876 worse when you're sixteen years old. In fact, you might 0:24:09.916 --> 0:24:13.596 think this is funny. The first celebrity I ever met 0:24:13.756 --> 0:24:17.836 was Ian mackay at Great Gilder Sleeves. Ian mackay from 0:24:17.836 --> 0:24:20.756 Fugazi and Minor Threat, and I was so excited to 0:24:20.796 --> 0:24:22.796