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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Moby maybe one of the most highly recognizable dance

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Speaker 1: music artists of all time, but he's also a talented

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Speaker 1: multi hyphen it whose unconventional thirty year career includes massive

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Speaker 1: success as a producer and DJ and notoriety as an

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Speaker 1: animal rights activist. Moby's latest project, Raprise, is the greatest

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Speaker 1: Hits album that revisits the highlights of his extensive catalog.

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Speaker 1: The songs are rerecorded with the Budapest Art Orchestra and

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Speaker 1: various vocalists like Jim James. Moby's most well known electronic

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Speaker 1: songs are reimagined on Raprise into sparse, soul stirring compositions.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, we'll hear Rick Rubin and Moby reminisce

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Speaker 1: about their early punk rock days in New York City

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Speaker 1: and the first time Moby ever heard house music while

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Speaker 1: dancing in a club basement next to Prince. Moby also

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Speaker 1: talks about what it was like to be buddies with

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Speaker 1: David Bowie, getting sober, and why he decided to sell

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Speaker 1: the big fancy castle he lived in all by himself.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmonds. Here's a Rick rubin with Moby. I

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Speaker 1: can tell from the window behind you that you're not

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Speaker 1: in the house that I last visited you in. No

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Speaker 1: I had this. I think of it like a Jay

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Speaker 1: Gatsby epiphany. I was in this huge, crazy castle by myself,

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Speaker 1: and I at one point asked myself, like, why do

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Speaker 1: I live by myself in a giant castle? So I

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Speaker 1: sold the big crazy castle and moved to this much simpler,

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Speaker 1: prettier house in Los Felis, right by the observatory. Cool.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about the experience of recognizing

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Speaker 1: that moment. What was the moment like and did it

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Speaker 1: happen at once? I mean, that's the thing with epiphanies.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if this has been your experience,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of the epiphanies I've had have taken

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Speaker 1: a long time to sort of come to fruition, and

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Speaker 1: when I finally have them, they're so self evident, so's

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Speaker 1: it builds for a long time, and then once you

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Speaker 1: notice it, it's like, how did it take so long

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Speaker 1: for me to see the elephant in the room? Essentially, yeah,

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Speaker 1: kind of like you drop a brick on your foot

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Speaker 1: three hundred times, and after the three hundredth time you

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Speaker 1: think to yourself, maybe I should stop dropping a brick

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Speaker 1: on my foot. So this time I was sitting at

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Speaker 1: my kitchen table in the Crazy Castle, and I was,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, checking Facebook or looking at CNN on

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Speaker 1: my laptop, and I thought to myself, why do I

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Speaker 1: need this giant castle to sit at my kitchen table

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Speaker 1: and do emails? Because I don't have a family. I'm

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Speaker 1: just one person. I was like, so why do I

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Speaker 1: need a bunch of empty rooms that occasionally I go

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Speaker 1: in and vacuum. So it's just a very a very

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Speaker 1: self evident rational epiphany that said, I really liked that house,

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Speaker 1: that that crazy castle was a really cool crazy castle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it amazes me a little bit that somehow I was

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Speaker 1: ever able to live in a crazy cool castle. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you did. Actually feel like I feel like

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Speaker 1: if anyone gets to live in a crazy cool castle,

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Speaker 1: it might as well be you. And then I had

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Speaker 1: a really an odd experience with the crazy cool Castle.

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Speaker 1: After I lived in the crazy cool Castle is the

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Speaker 1: man I sold it to had a brunch and invited

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Speaker 1: me to the brunch. And this has some very funny

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Speaker 1: name dropping in it, and So I went to this

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Speaker 1: brunch and Robert Downey Junior was at the brunch. So

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Speaker 1: Robert Downey Jr. And I had been best friends when

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Speaker 1: we were nine years old? Is that true? And I

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen him since nineteen seventy four. And so by

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Speaker 1: my selling the Giant Crazy Castle and then getting getting

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Speaker 1: invited back to this brunch, I somehow got reunited with

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Speaker 1: my childhood best friend from nineteen seventy four. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: I thought you grew up on the East Coast. I

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Speaker 1: did in Connecticut. Oh? Is he from Connecticut? For two years?

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Speaker 1: He lived in Darien, Connecticut, and then his family moved

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Speaker 1: to Essex, and I guess they might have moved back here.

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Speaker 1: But we lost touch in nineteen seventy four, nineteen seventy five, amazing.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what year it was that

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Speaker 1: we first ran into each other? Oh, I remember it exactly.

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Speaker 1: When was that? It would have been June of nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty three in Stamford, Connecticut at the Anthrax. Believable, And

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Speaker 1: I remember it clearly because it was like a sort

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Speaker 1: of daytime show at the Anthrax. They had graffiti artists

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Speaker 1: outside and there was this strange show and Hoes were

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Speaker 1: the headliners, and my band was one of the earlier bands.

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Speaker 1: And I remember Brian and Sean, who ran the Anthrax,

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Speaker 1: came to me and asked if you could borrow my amp.

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Speaker 1: I remember that, I remember, I remember borrowing your amp.

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Speaker 1: That's the moment that I remember. But I didn't remember

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Speaker 1: the name of the club, and I wouldn't have been

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Speaker 1: able to figure out when it was, just because I'm

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Speaker 1: not good with dates. But that's amazing that you remember that.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we both came from we're birth from

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Speaker 1: the same scene, and we've both had interesting journeys from

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Speaker 1: that start, maybe not the most obvious journeys. I've always

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Speaker 1: felt a kinship, like we're very much cut from the

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Speaker 1: same cloth. Well, I mean, if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: from the Anthrax was a completely illeite go punk rock

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Speaker 1: club in Stamford, Connecticut. And Stamford, Connecticut has now become

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Speaker 1: this global center of finance, but back then it was

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Speaker 1: sort of like just a burned out rough neighborhood and

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Speaker 1: it was a storefront and they had a little stage

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Speaker 1: in the basement. So people might be thinking that this

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Speaker 1: was some sort of big, slightly more glamorous, legitimate place like. No,

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Speaker 1: it was an anarcho syndicant punk rock club and it

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Speaker 1: was a tiny little basement as I recall, Oh, it

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Speaker 1: was minuscule. Yeah, And then I remember you went to

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Speaker 1: NYU with my friends Lindsay Anderson and John Farnsworth. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And here's a really funny memory I have. It would

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Speaker 1: have been I guess nineteen eighty four at some point, Lindsay,

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Speaker 1: because I had just started djaying, and Lindsay came to

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Speaker 1: me and asked if I knew anyone who could help

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Speaker 1: her friend Rick get a djaying job. Really, yeah, she

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Speaker 1: said that. She said her friend Rick was looking for

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Speaker 1: DJ gigs and did I know anyone who was looking

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Speaker 1: for DJs? Wow? Amazing, Like maybe that was autumn of eight,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, at some point in nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 1: and then I think the next time I ran into

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Speaker 1: was at Angelica's kitchen buying vegan food. Yeah, And there

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Speaker 1: were a few there were a few other sightings over

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Speaker 1: the years. Yeah. I remember when I really got into

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Speaker 1: the initial surge of rave music, when it was going

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Speaker 1: on and feeling like the energy of the raves that

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Speaker 1: I was going to these like illegal weekend raves with

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Speaker 1: tons of people out in the desert, feeling like the

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Speaker 1: energy was the first new energy that I was excited

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Speaker 1: by since hip hop music. And after going to many

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Speaker 1: of these things and realizing that from my perspective, which

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Speaker 1: is very much music rooted in a personality, whether it

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Speaker 1: be the personality of a band or the personality of

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Speaker 1: person that was for the most part of faceless movement.

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Speaker 1: And then I saw you perform in that, bringing a

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Speaker 1: punk rock state of theatrical performance into the rave dance world,

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Speaker 1: and it was so exciting for me and it made sense.

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Speaker 1: And I've also found over the years that the people

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Speaker 1: who made the most interesting dance music were the people

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Speaker 1: who started by making other kinds of music and then

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Speaker 1: found their way into dance music, as opposed to people

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Speaker 1: who started in dance music, which historically there are less

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Speaker 1: cases where I find that that music interesting. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it was strange coming from a sort of punk

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Speaker 1: rock new wave background. And then similar to you, in

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Speaker 1: the early eighties, I got really excited by hip hop,

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Speaker 1: you know, listening to mixtapes from BLS and then I

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Speaker 1: started djaying and I was playing all this eclectic music,

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Speaker 1: you know, from hip hop to Johnny Cash to Nitzereb

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Speaker 1: to just you know, all over the place, and house

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Speaker 1: music started and it excited me in a way that

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Speaker 1: dance music never had, you know, I mean dance music,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I viewed it very suspiciously

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Speaker 1: up until the mid eighties, you know, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden I realized, oh, part of my suspicion

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Speaker 1: about it, part of my apprehension around dance music was

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Speaker 1: actually cultural that it represented like cultural morais and approaches

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Speaker 1: to music that were just very for a white kid

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Speaker 1: from the suburbs. They were just really foreign to me.

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Speaker 1: But then I realized just because they were foreign, it

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Speaker 1: didn't mean that I had to have the suspicion around them.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is you found this

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Speaker 1: to be the case, but I think that dance Atterria

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Speaker 1: played a big role in turning me from like a

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Speaker 1: suburban white kid who just wanted to listen to Black

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Speaker 1: Flag and joy Division into someone who was open to

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Speaker 1: so many different musical idioms, you know, because I would

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Speaker 1: go to dance Ateria to see the Bad Brains or

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Speaker 1: to see Mission of Burma, or even like the place

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Speaker 1: like the Peppermint Lounge, and then the DJ beforehand would

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Speaker 1: be playing hip hop and the DJ afterwards would be

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Speaker 1: playing gay disco, and I was like, well, I revere

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Speaker 1: this scene so clearly I need to learn from what

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Speaker 1: they're doing. You know. The incubator of Lower Manhattan in

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Speaker 1: the early eighties into the mid eighties really was I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like in a way that that

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Speaker 1: that saved me from just being a cliched white kid

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Speaker 1: from the suburbs who only wanted to listen to guitar

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Speaker 1: rock from Athens, Georgia. So you're going to danceteria, you're

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Speaker 1: exposed to dance music in a way that's relatable to you.

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Speaker 1: Can you remember, like your gateway drug, what was the

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Speaker 1: first dance oriented artists that you felt like this is

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Speaker 1: for me. That's a wonderful question, because there was the

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Speaker 1: sort of dance adjacent stuff that I liked, but I

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Speaker 1: hadn't even registered that it was dance music, you know.

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Speaker 1: I remember, like one of the best record buying days

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Speaker 1: of my entire life was in nineteen eighty two. I

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Speaker 1: was in a record store in DC and I bought

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Speaker 1: the Message and Minor Threat out of Step. Good day.

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Speaker 1: That's a good day. But it hadn't even registered to

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Speaker 1: me that the message was quote unquote dance music. I

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Speaker 1: was just like I'd heard it on a Mister Magic

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Speaker 1: mixtape and I was like, wow, I really liked I

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Speaker 1: loved the lyrics. I really love this. But the first

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Speaker 1: dance track do you know what it might have been?

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Speaker 1: And part of it was because it didn't make any

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Speaker 1: sense to me until I fell in love with it.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the song set it off by Strafe?

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Speaker 1: Of course incredible And I remember like my friend Diana

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Speaker 1: brought it to me when I was DJing. She said,

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Speaker 1: you need to play this and I was like, it's

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Speaker 1: nine minutes long, no one knows it and it was

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Speaker 1: so poorly recorded and so poorly mixed. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 1: was flawless. And I think that was the record where

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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, something is happening here that I

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Speaker 1: need to be aware of because this is you know,

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Speaker 1: at the time, I was also listening to, you know,

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Speaker 1: like nice indie rock like Aztec Camera, really pleasant guitar music.

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Speaker 1: But I heard this and I was like, this is special.

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Speaker 1: You know, the guitar music I'm listening to is very

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Speaker 1: well made and it's good, but it's not this, Like

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Speaker 1: this is this is different and fascinating, amazing. I knew

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. There was this moment in

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Speaker 1: New York where there was a new form of dance

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Speaker 1: music being created. I don't know what it's referred to,

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Speaker 1: the subgenre, I don't know what we call it, but

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Speaker 1: Strafe is a key piece of this eighties New York

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Speaker 1: club music. It was going on on a parallel trip

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Speaker 1: of hip hop. I don't know which was influencing which

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Speaker 1: it was very rooted in the hip hop language, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't rap music. But the beats might be interchangeable

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Speaker 1: between the New York club music and the early hip

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Speaker 1: hop music. And it was a really exciting time for

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Speaker 1: dance music. Yeah, and then you would have these hits

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Speaker 1: that were only hits in geographically tiny parts of the world,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like you could play set it Off by

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Speaker 1: Streife and an entire room full of people would scream

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Speaker 1: at the top of their lungs in Lower Manhattan, and

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Speaker 1: you'd go ten miles away from Lower Manhattan, no one

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Speaker 1: has heard this song. Yeah, it was so regional and fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Early house music was a little bit like that. Like

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Speaker 1: there were some songs like like break for Love, by Rays.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever knew that it was

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Speaker 1: an early seminal house track that was a massive hit

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Speaker 1: in the house music world in New York City. Outside

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Speaker 1: of that, no one, No one knew what it was.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting also about the Strafe song. It was as

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Speaker 1: big of a club song as there's ever been in

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Speaker 1: New York and for as big of a hit as

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Speaker 1: it was, I'm guessing almost no one owned the record

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Speaker 1: except DJs who would play it at the club. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no one had that record. You know, they were not fans,

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Speaker 1: didn't have that record because that was not the nature

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Speaker 1: of that culture. You went to the club and you

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Speaker 1: heard that there because that's where it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's where that was. It wasn't meant to be listened

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Speaker 1: to in your bedroom. Yeah, it was like or you

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Speaker 1: heard it on Hot ninety seven on a Friday night, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or Kiss or BLS. But yeah, you're absolutely right. And

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Speaker 1: I mean that's one of the things with dance music

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Speaker 1: in general, because I was growing up, I was used

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Speaker 1: to music that lived everywhere. You know, like you could

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Speaker 1: listen to LEDs Eppelin at a party. You could also

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Speaker 1: listen to led Zeppelin in the morning while you were

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Speaker 1: making breakfast, whereas a lot of electronic music was so

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Speaker 1: in a way site specific, like even to this day,

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Speaker 1: like there's there's club music that I love at a

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Speaker 1: big event with fifty thousand people that I would never

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Speaker 1: in a million years want to take into my home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I'm now I'm really curious about You're right because

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Speaker 1: that genre it was basically dance music. It was like

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Speaker 1: post disco, prehouse music. Yes, and it didn't know what

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Speaker 1: it was. It didn't have any like there was no

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Speaker 1: conformity to certain bpms or anything. It was just this

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Speaker 1: free floating, slightly nebulous dance music and it was a

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Speaker 1: really fascinating time. It was a lot more experimental because

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Speaker 1: there was freestyle. If you remember freestyle, you know, which

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Speaker 1: was great, but freestyle was a very specific, regimented BPM

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Speaker 1: in genre. Yeah, but this would have like this. This

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Speaker 1: was also the music that Madonna really blossomed out of,

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Speaker 1: like she was part of that culture and then transcended it.

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Speaker 1: But that was really the early Madonna fit really into

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Speaker 1: that New York dance club mode as well as like

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Speaker 1: AEIOU or Evelyn Champagne King or Lisa Lisa. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: haven't thought. I haven't thought of Lisa Lisa and such

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Speaker 1: a Lisa Lisa and the cult jam because it was

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Speaker 1: like she had roughly the same acronym as LLL cool J.

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Speaker 1: But it's funny that you mentioned Aeiou by Ebanosen because

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Speaker 1: I just recently rediscovered that song and video. If you're bored,

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Speaker 1: go take a look at it and read the lyrics.

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Speaker 1: I would posit the strangest song in Western pop music history.

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Speaker 1: Like the lyrics are so phenomenal and they make absolutely

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Speaker 1: no sense. It's like a grad student dissertation on semiotic

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Speaker 1: while a guys talking about trying to pick up a

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Speaker 1: girl at a cafe. Amazing. I had completely forgotten about

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Speaker 1: that song. It's just it's but that you're right that

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Speaker 1: that weird incubator of New York that's so much, so

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Speaker 1: much music, so much art, so much culture came out

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Speaker 1: of because it was just everybody was influencing everybody else,

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of like everyone was open to everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was breakdancing music before rap music. That was the

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Speaker 1: music that would people would break dance with. I want

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Speaker 1: to say with because you didn't really break dance to

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Speaker 1: music you break dance with music. Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean think of Blondie, you know, coming out of that

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Speaker 1: scene as well, going back a little bit more into

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Speaker 1: the late seventies. But yeah, I'm really grateful that I

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Speaker 1: grew up within driving distance of New York and I

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Speaker 1: could be exposed to that or also within radio distance.

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Speaker 1: It's also interesting that another thing that we share is

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Speaker 1: that we're both suburban kids who had access to New

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Speaker 1: York City, which is really different than kids who grew

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Speaker 1: up in New York City because the kids who grew

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Speaker 1: up in New York City didn't have that suburban experience

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Speaker 1: that's more rooted in America. Like our experience is much

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Speaker 1: closer to what the American experiences than kids who grew

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Speaker 1: up in New York City. Yeah. And I was born

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Speaker 1: in New York, but I grew up in Connecticut, and

301
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Speaker 1: I would meet people who grew up in the city

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Speaker 1: and I would just be amazed, like they were a

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Speaker 1: different species. I was like, you were born like so

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Speaker 1: far up the cool ladder than I will ever attain to. Yeah,

305
00:18:46,236 --> 00:18:48,796
Speaker 1: because it just seemed like the idea that they would

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Speaker 1: do normal things, especially in the seventies, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the most dangerous, darkest place in the world. They would

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Speaker 1: be going to elementary school, they would be having sleepovers,

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Speaker 1: they would be buying ice cream, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: you did that in New York? Like, how did people

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Speaker 1: manage to have childhoods in New York City? You know,

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Speaker 1: when you're like dodging muggers and addicts and crazy people.

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Speaker 1: And from a musical perspective, something like being able to

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Speaker 1: like led Zeppelin was essentially a suburban thing. Like led

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Speaker 1: Zeppelin wasn't cool enough to listen to if you grew

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Speaker 1: up in Manhattan. It was just a different taste. It

317
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Speaker 1: was too mainstream from Manhattan. Yeah, I mean I do

318
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Speaker 1: remember meeting people who like, by the time they were eighteen,

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Speaker 1: if they'd grown up in the city, they were done.

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Speaker 1: They were jaded. Yeah, Like they've been going to clubs

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Speaker 1: since they were thirteen. They had gone to rehab when

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Speaker 1: they were fifteen. You know, they had started their first

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Speaker 1: band when they're sixteen and broken up and gotten their

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Speaker 1: first record deal at seventeen. So by eighteen they were

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Speaker 1: like ready to move to New Mexico and RETIREE. What

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Speaker 1: was the first punk show you ever saw? Oh? So

327
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Speaker 1: this is I made some good choices early on My

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00:20:09,396 --> 00:20:12,796
Speaker 1: first real concert was Yes at Madison Square Garden in

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, and I love Yes unapologetically. Maybe less so

330
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Speaker 1: with the Trevor Horn era, but like early, like close

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Speaker 1: to the edge. Yes, I just still think it's flawless.

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Speaker 1: My first punk rock show and I got really lucky

333
00:20:27,236 --> 00:20:30,196
Speaker 1: was Fear at the Mud Club. Wow, that's a great one.

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Speaker 1: I think I was there. I think I was fifteen,

335
00:20:33,396 --> 00:20:38,036
Speaker 1: or maybe it just turned sixteen yea, and yeah it was.

336
00:20:38,676 --> 00:20:41,116
Speaker 1: It was phenomenal. And then after that we discovered great

337
00:20:41,156 --> 00:20:44,636
Speaker 1: Guilder Sleeves. We discovered A seven because my friends and

338
00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:47,476
Speaker 1: I were from the suburbs and we knew nothing, so

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00:20:47,516 --> 00:20:50,796
Speaker 1: we thought A seven was a concert venue. And again

340
00:20:50,836 --> 00:20:52,916
Speaker 1: to put it in perspective for anyone listening, A seven

341
00:20:53,036 --> 00:20:54,636
Speaker 1: was another. It was a hole in the wall dive.

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Speaker 1: It was a bar with a little stage, and we

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Speaker 1: went there to see one of my favorite punk rock bands, Krout. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so we thought, okay, Krout and maybe the Cromags

345
00:21:05,396 --> 00:21:07,476
Speaker 1: or Burfie's Law or someone was playing at A seven,

346
00:21:07,476 --> 00:21:09,476
Speaker 1: to like, We're gonna go to A seven and see

347
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Speaker 1: this show. We got there at nine. Bar wasn't even

348
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Speaker 1: open yet, Finally the doors opened nine thirty or ten.

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Speaker 1: We go in and we ask the bartender do you

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Speaker 1: know when Kraut are playing? And he said, well, that's

351
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Speaker 1: my band. Turns out Dougie, the guitar players also the bartender,

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Speaker 1: and he says, and we're probably gonna go on around two.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind, we're sixteen year old kids from the suburbs.

354
00:21:32,516 --> 00:21:35,916
Speaker 1: We didn't even know two am existed, like two am.

355
00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:39,796
Speaker 1: No one was ever awake at two am, like, let

356
00:21:39,796 --> 00:21:43,276
Speaker 1: alone playing a show. But we stayed up and we waited,

357
00:21:43,796 --> 00:21:45,996
Speaker 1: and we saw Krout at A seven with a bunch

358
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Speaker 1: of other bands I don't remember. Amazing, yeah, a seven.

359
00:21:49,796 --> 00:21:52,276
Speaker 1: I saw the Swans at a seven. That was really good.

360
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Speaker 1: We could go down so many rabbit holes about genres,

361
00:21:56,636 --> 00:22:00,836
Speaker 1: but that mid to late eighties noise genre in New York.

362
00:22:01,356 --> 00:22:06,036
Speaker 1: You know, diamonda Glass and the Swans and the Birthday Party.

363
00:22:06,156 --> 00:22:09,316
Speaker 1: And I got to see the Birthday Party play at

364
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Speaker 1: the club called the Underground. Do you remember the Underground?

365
00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:15,196
Speaker 1: I remember the name, but I never went there. Yeah,

366
00:22:15,236 --> 00:22:16,956
Speaker 1: it was it was. There would be no reason for

367
00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:19,476
Speaker 1: you to go, it would. They've had very few acts

368
00:22:19,516 --> 00:22:21,756
Speaker 1: that we would ever go to see but the Birthday

369
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Speaker 1: Party happened to be playing there, so I went and

370
00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:28,036
Speaker 1: I was one of maybe twelve people in the room

371
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Speaker 1: to see the show, and the plug got pulled on

372
00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:34,596
Speaker 1: them after the second song. I love them like Prayers

373
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Speaker 1: on Fire. I think it's just one of the most

374
00:22:36,676 --> 00:22:40,076
Speaker 1: flawless records. Beautiful. But I actually went back and re

375
00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:42,956
Speaker 1: listened to it and it's still great. But I don't

376
00:22:42,996 --> 00:22:47,196
Speaker 1: know how they came to be because they're from Australia,

377
00:22:47,276 --> 00:22:49,716
Speaker 1: and Australia is a wonderful place. But Australia is like

378
00:22:50,716 --> 00:22:55,996
Speaker 1: sunshine and blonde people and happiness, and you just wonder, like,

379
00:22:56,236 --> 00:23:01,596
Speaker 1: what in Australia created the birthday party? I'm glad it happened. Yeah.

380
00:23:01,796 --> 00:23:04,556
Speaker 1: Have you spent much chime in Australia, Yeah, I have

381
00:23:04,676 --> 00:23:07,076
Speaker 1: to say so. I got sober about thirteen years ago,

382
00:23:07,956 --> 00:23:12,396
Speaker 1: pre sobriety. Australia was absolutely my favorite place in the world,

383
00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:15,116
Speaker 1: Like as far as a place to go out and

384
00:23:15,316 --> 00:23:19,396
Speaker 1: just be a carefree, happy, go lucky alcoholic, Australia was

385
00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:22,676
Speaker 1: pretty special. When we come back, Mobi talks to Rick

386
00:23:22,716 --> 00:23:29,156
Speaker 1: Rubin about getting sober. We're back with more of Rick

387
00:23:29,196 --> 00:23:32,836
Speaker 1: Rubin's conversation with Mobby, tell me the story of getting sober.

388
00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:35,716
Speaker 1: It's similar to what we were talking about at the beginning.

389
00:23:35,756 --> 00:23:39,276
Speaker 1: It's sort of like the self evident epiphany that just

390
00:23:39,356 --> 00:23:42,916
Speaker 1: takes you a very long time to realize. So I'd

391
00:23:42,956 --> 00:23:45,836
Speaker 1: started drinking and doing drugs when I was ten. My

392
00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:48,276
Speaker 1: mom and her boyfriends used to do a lot of drugs,

393
00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:50,996
Speaker 1: so I'd steal drugs from them, and then I started

394
00:23:51,036 --> 00:23:56,076
Speaker 1: drinking and had bouts of sobriety, but kept drinking and

395
00:23:56,196 --> 00:24:01,276
Speaker 1: doing drugs up until thirteen years ago. And honestly, like

396
00:24:01,996 --> 00:24:06,396
Speaker 1: the consequences of drinking and doing drugs just kept getting

397
00:24:06,436 --> 00:24:09,876
Speaker 1: worse when you're sixteen years old. In fact, you might

398
00:24:09,916 --> 00:24:13,596
Speaker 1: think this is funny. The first celebrity I ever met

399
00:24:13,756 --> 00:24:17,836
Speaker 1: was Ian mackay at Great Gilder Sleeves. Ian mackay from

400
00:24:17,836 --> 00:24:20,756
Speaker 1: Fugazi and Minor Threat, and I was so excited to

401
00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:22,796
Speaker 1: meet him. I ran up to him and introduced myself.

402
00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:25,116
Speaker 1: I was like, I said, my name's Moby, Mister McKay

403
00:24:25,236 --> 00:24:27,676
Speaker 1: just loved your band and shook his hand. I was

404
00:24:27,756 --> 00:24:30,316
Speaker 1: blind drunk at the time. And Ian McKay is the

405
00:24:30,316 --> 00:24:34,116
Speaker 1: man who invented straight edge. Yes, so I just kept

406
00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:37,796
Speaker 1: drinking and doing more drugs and occasionally experimenting with sobriety.

407
00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:44,036
Speaker 1: And then, finally, thirteen years ago, after years of waking

408
00:24:44,116 --> 00:24:47,636
Speaker 1: up at five in the afternoon on a daily basis

409
00:24:47,756 --> 00:24:52,116
Speaker 1: hung over and sick and despondent, I finally realized that

410
00:24:52,196 --> 00:24:56,676
Speaker 1: it was time to stop. You know, I realized being

411
00:24:57,236 --> 00:25:01,196
Speaker 1: sick and despondent and miserable day after day after day

412
00:25:01,196 --> 00:25:06,196
Speaker 1: after day was not a good thing, which, in hindsight,

413
00:25:06,596 --> 00:25:10,436
Speaker 1: is the most self evident realization any one could have. Like, normally,

414
00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:13,836
Speaker 1: you only have to eat rotten food a few times

415
00:25:14,436 --> 00:25:17,156
Speaker 1: to decide you'd no longer want to eat rotten food.

416
00:25:17,236 --> 00:25:21,876
Speaker 1: I had to be sick and hung over thousands of times,

417
00:25:21,916 --> 00:25:25,956
Speaker 1: thousands upon thousands of times to finally accept that being

418
00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:28,076
Speaker 1: hungover and miserable was not a good way to live.

419
00:25:28,596 --> 00:25:35,036
Speaker 1: I'm happy you found peace without that that method. Oh yeah,

420
00:25:35,036 --> 00:25:39,356
Speaker 1: I mean it's I mean, and obviously getting sobers challenging

421
00:25:39,396 --> 00:25:45,516
Speaker 1: because drinking and doing drugs becomes your soul reliable organizing principle.

422
00:25:45,716 --> 00:25:49,356
Speaker 1: You know, it delivers misery, but before that, it delivers

423
00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:53,276
Speaker 1: controlled happiness. So it's a very hard thing to give up.

424
00:25:53,836 --> 00:25:56,916
Speaker 1: The familiar, even if the familiar is destroying you. Yeah,

425
00:25:57,196 --> 00:26:01,996
Speaker 1: but I am thrilled for so many reasons to no

426
00:26:02,196 --> 00:26:07,596
Speaker 1: longer be a sad, embarrassing, miserable alcoholic drug addict. Would

427
00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:13,236
Speaker 1: you say that you drugs and drinking to escape? I

428
00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:16,956
Speaker 1: used drugs and drinking because and this is something about

429
00:26:16,996 --> 00:26:20,836
Speaker 1: the physiology of an alcoholic or the neurochemistry of an

430
00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:24,516
Speaker 1: alcoholic alcohol I love drugs a lot, like I did

431
00:26:24,556 --> 00:26:26,676
Speaker 1: any drug that was put in front of me. But

432
00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:30,716
Speaker 1: really my drug of choice was alcohol. And it's sort

433
00:26:30,756 --> 00:26:34,836
Speaker 1: of interesting. Half my family is white Anglo Saxon Protestant

434
00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:37,596
Speaker 1: and the other half of my family is Jewish. And

435
00:26:37,716 --> 00:26:40,916
Speaker 1: what's funny is in my family, the white Anglo Saxon

436
00:26:40,996 --> 00:26:44,676
Speaker 1: Protestants were all alcoholics, and the Jews in my family

437
00:26:45,156 --> 00:26:48,116
Speaker 1: have no issue with drinking whatsoever and don't and for

438
00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:51,596
Speaker 1: the life of them, can't understand why the Wasps can't

439
00:26:51,676 --> 00:26:57,356
Speaker 1: just drink in moderation. But for me, alcohol did everything.

440
00:26:57,556 --> 00:27:01,196
Speaker 1: Was this magical drug where it calmed me down and

441
00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:04,196
Speaker 1: it woke me up. Yeah, you know, it excited me,

442
00:27:04,356 --> 00:27:07,676
Speaker 1: it relaxed me, It kept me awake when I needed

443
00:27:07,716 --> 00:27:09,516
Speaker 1: to be awake, and helped me fall asleep when I

444
00:27:09,516 --> 00:27:14,116
Speaker 1: needed to fall asleep. It gave me confidence, but it

445
00:27:14,196 --> 00:27:17,996
Speaker 1: also helped me access the surreal parts of my brain,

446
00:27:18,116 --> 00:27:23,036
Speaker 1: like there was nothing it couldn't do. But then, ultimately, obviously,

447
00:27:23,036 --> 00:27:26,556
Speaker 1: when you rely on anything outside of yourself, it goes wrong.

448
00:27:27,316 --> 00:27:32,476
Speaker 1: How has it been coming to meet yourself after all

449
00:27:32,516 --> 00:27:37,996
Speaker 1: this time? What's it like? It's very challenging, And I

450
00:27:38,036 --> 00:27:43,276
Speaker 1: would say, like anybody meeting themselves in an honest way,

451
00:27:44,156 --> 00:27:47,636
Speaker 1: it's hard. And one of the hardest things that I

452
00:27:47,676 --> 00:27:49,876
Speaker 1: was actually just thinking about recently, like one of my

453
00:27:49,956 --> 00:27:54,316
Speaker 1: pandemic projects for myself, and it's gonna sound fancier than

454
00:27:54,356 --> 00:27:56,596
Speaker 1: it is because I haven't actually finished any of the books,

455
00:27:56,716 --> 00:27:59,956
Speaker 1: was to go back and reread a lot of the

456
00:27:59,956 --> 00:28:02,756
Speaker 1: books that I started reading in university because I was

457
00:28:02,796 --> 00:28:05,276
Speaker 1: a philosophy major and I'd never finished any of the

458
00:28:05,316 --> 00:28:08,876
Speaker 1: books I was reading. So I got like Wittgenstein, like

459
00:28:08,916 --> 00:28:11,796
Speaker 1: the Tractatis and the Brown and Blue books. I was

460
00:28:11,836 --> 00:28:16,196
Speaker 1: reading some Schopenhauer and reading Young and about the sort

461
00:28:16,196 --> 00:28:20,156
Speaker 1: of the schism between Young and Freud, and obviously Young

462
00:28:20,236 --> 00:28:25,076
Speaker 1: and I'm grossly paraphrasing, but he writes a lot about

463
00:28:25,076 --> 00:28:27,716
Speaker 1: the idea of a shadow self. And I don't know

464
00:28:27,716 --> 00:28:29,756
Speaker 1: about you, but when I was growing up, I thought

465
00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:33,676
Speaker 1: that the shadow self was evil. I thought that the

466
00:28:33,756 --> 00:28:36,596
Speaker 1: shadow self was like this, you know, the Nietzsche quote

467
00:28:36,596 --> 00:28:39,356
Speaker 1: of like don't stare too long into the void because

468
00:28:39,356 --> 00:28:41,996
Speaker 1: the void might stare back into you, and like it

469
00:28:42,076 --> 00:28:45,596
Speaker 1: seems so menacing for me. What I think I've realized

470
00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:49,436
Speaker 1: is my shadow self is actually just embarrassing, Like it's

471
00:28:49,476 --> 00:28:53,076
Speaker 1: the part of it. Like it's not some menacing Dexter

472
00:28:53,196 --> 00:28:57,436
Speaker 1: style serial killer. It's just it's like an awkward adolescent.

473
00:28:57,916 --> 00:29:00,516
Speaker 1: And one of the hardest things, Like if I had

474
00:29:00,556 --> 00:29:04,836
Speaker 1: a buried psychopath in me, I could probably make peace

475
00:29:04,916 --> 00:29:08,116
Speaker 1: with that easier than I can make peace with the

476
00:29:08,396 --> 00:29:14,556
Speaker 1: awkward lescent in me, you know, like the vulnerable human, awkward,

477
00:29:15,276 --> 00:29:18,396
Speaker 1: frail part of me. That's the like coming to terms

478
00:29:18,436 --> 00:29:20,996
Speaker 1: with that and learning to like that part of yourself.

479
00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:24,156
Speaker 1: I found that to be a real challenge because I

480
00:29:24,196 --> 00:29:29,316
Speaker 1: always wanted to be cool and not awkward and you know,

481
00:29:29,436 --> 00:29:33,356
Speaker 1: confident and recognizing like, okay, no, I'm not those things.

482
00:29:33,396 --> 00:29:36,836
Speaker 1: And I can't have an honest assessment of self without

483
00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:40,436
Speaker 1: looking at that. And before would drinking and drugs would

484
00:29:40,436 --> 00:29:42,596
Speaker 1: just hide that away. You wouldn't have to face it,

485
00:29:42,636 --> 00:29:45,756
Speaker 1: you would never have to acknowledge it was there. Is

486
00:29:45,756 --> 00:29:48,916
Speaker 1: that great? Oh yeah, it was like the Jim Carrey

487
00:29:48,956 --> 00:29:51,996
Speaker 1: movie The Mask, Like all of a sudden you just

488
00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:57,636
Speaker 1: became the most ideal version of yourself, at least as

489
00:29:57,676 --> 00:30:01,356
Speaker 1: far as how I perceived myself. Other people were like, oh,

490
00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:05,396
Speaker 1: who's that sad asshole? Like what, like he's gross? But

491
00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:10,316
Speaker 1: in my mind I was like confident and you know, powerful,

492
00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:13,156
Speaker 1: even if outside people are looking at me like I

493
00:30:13,236 --> 00:30:17,716
Speaker 1: was just some sort of like tragic, aging bald musician,

494
00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:20,916
Speaker 1: you know, But in my mind, I was like Johnny

495
00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:23,596
Speaker 1: Depp meets Orlando Bloom and the outside, you know, the

496
00:30:23,636 --> 00:30:25,796
Speaker 1: outside world saw me as a little bit more like

497
00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:30,996
Speaker 1: Wally Sewn in The Princess Bride. How did drugs affect

498
00:30:31,036 --> 00:30:34,636
Speaker 1: music making over the course of your life. Well, the

499
00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:38,756
Speaker 1: funny thing is, and I still don't know how this

500
00:30:39,676 --> 00:30:44,516
Speaker 1: was possible. I never once performed drunk or high wow,

501
00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:47,756
Speaker 1: And I never drank or did drugs when I was

502
00:30:47,756 --> 00:30:51,916
Speaker 1: working on music. Interesting, like, these were the only parts

503
00:30:51,916 --> 00:30:54,476
Speaker 1: of my life that were carved out. Like if I

504
00:30:54,516 --> 00:30:56,556
Speaker 1: was on tour, I would drink and do drugs the

505
00:30:56,596 --> 00:31:01,196
Speaker 1: moment I stepped off stage. But I think there was

506
00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,396
Speaker 1: some little part of my brain that said, no, Like

507
00:31:04,716 --> 00:31:08,876
Speaker 1: you can destroy everything else. You can destroy relationships, you

508
00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:12,196
Speaker 1: can destroy your health, but music is this sort of

509
00:31:12,236 --> 00:31:19,556
Speaker 1: slightly sacred space. You cannot corrupt it beautiful. Although there

510
00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:22,476
Speaker 1: was one time, and part of it was based on experience.

511
00:31:23,036 --> 00:31:26,076
Speaker 1: One time, I remember being out and I thought, like,

512
00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:28,956
Speaker 1: you know what, a lot of great artists have made

513
00:31:29,236 --> 00:31:33,076
Speaker 1: great drunken records. And so I remember coming home from

514
00:31:33,076 --> 00:31:36,116
Speaker 1: a bar four in the morning and I thought, I'm

515
00:31:36,156 --> 00:31:38,516
Speaker 1: going to write and record a song drunk, because I've

516
00:31:38,516 --> 00:31:41,156
Speaker 1: never done this before. And in the morning I listened

517
00:31:41,156 --> 00:31:46,156
Speaker 1: to it and it was just bad. Not interesting, bad,

518
00:31:46,396 --> 00:31:52,196
Speaker 1: not exciting bad, just garbage bad, you know. Like so

519
00:31:52,276 --> 00:31:55,156
Speaker 1: that that also helped me to never drink or do

520
00:31:55,316 --> 00:32:00,156
Speaker 1: drugs when making music. How has your relationship to music

521
00:32:00,276 --> 00:32:04,756
Speaker 1: changed from when you started till now? I love that

522
00:32:04,876 --> 00:32:10,276
Speaker 1: question because it is actually gone to a place of

523
00:32:10,316 --> 00:32:17,636
Speaker 1: this wonderful purity. Meaning in the early days, everything about

524
00:32:17,676 --> 00:32:21,996
Speaker 1: the world of music was exciting. Record labels seemed exciting,

525
00:32:22,396 --> 00:32:27,996
Speaker 1: music magazines were exciting. Everything even tangentially related to the

526
00:32:27,996 --> 00:32:31,956
Speaker 1: world of music was like so phenomenally exciting. And then

527
00:32:31,996 --> 00:32:36,476
Speaker 1: when I got involved in the music business, as I'm

528
00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:38,156
Speaker 1: sure you can relate to its a lot of people can,

529
00:32:38,236 --> 00:32:41,836
Speaker 1: there was that sort of the straddling of you, how

530
00:32:41,876 --> 00:32:46,116
Speaker 1: do you maintain and learn from and respond to the

531
00:32:46,236 --> 00:32:51,356
Speaker 1: like the dynamic or dialectic between art and commerce. And

532
00:32:51,396 --> 00:32:54,836
Speaker 1: then once I had a degree of success, I found

533
00:32:54,876 --> 00:33:00,236
Speaker 1: myself loving success, and I found myself ashamedly and sort

534
00:33:00,236 --> 00:33:06,636
Speaker 1: of and very sadly making compromises to try and further success.

535
00:33:07,156 --> 00:33:11,636
Speaker 1: I wasn't very good at it luck, And then I

536
00:33:11,716 --> 00:33:14,916
Speaker 1: had this epiphany, helped by David Lynch. I went to

537
00:33:14,916 --> 00:33:18,636
Speaker 1: go see see David Lynch speak at BAFTA in the UK,

538
00:33:19,196 --> 00:33:23,316
Speaker 1: and he said something so simple. He was on stage

539
00:33:23,356 --> 00:33:29,116
Speaker 1: being interviewed and he said, creativity is beautiful. My direct

540
00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:32,756
Speaker 1: quote from David Lynch, and it just struck me, and

541
00:33:32,796 --> 00:33:36,156
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I realized, Oh, he's right. Like

542
00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:41,036
Speaker 1: the marketplace is okay, record labels are fine, there's nothing

543
00:33:41,036 --> 00:33:44,756
Speaker 1: wrong with them, you know, like marketing, campaign selling. Sure,

544
00:33:45,476 --> 00:33:50,916
Speaker 1: that's fine. But music has the potential to be sublime.

545
00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,396
Speaker 1: And I'm not even talking about my music, I'm talking

546
00:33:53,436 --> 00:33:55,756
Speaker 1: about just music in general. If you think about it,

547
00:33:57,076 --> 00:34:01,156
Speaker 1: the fact that music on a corporeal physical level has

548
00:34:01,276 --> 00:34:04,836
Speaker 1: never existed. You know, all it is, And forgive me

549
00:34:04,916 --> 00:34:07,556
Speaker 1: how I'm really stating the obvious. All it is is

550
00:34:07,596 --> 00:34:11,476
Speaker 1: air molecules hit us a little bit differently, you know.

551
00:34:11,516 --> 00:34:14,836
Speaker 1: And somehow, these air molecules touching us differently, it makes

552
00:34:14,916 --> 00:34:20,396
Speaker 1: us cry, makes us get tattoos, it makes us jump

553
00:34:20,476 --> 00:34:22,636
Speaker 1: up and down in a field with one hundred thousand people.

554
00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:27,756
Speaker 1: It's just air moving a little bit differently. And so

555
00:34:28,156 --> 00:34:31,716
Speaker 1: my long rambling answer to your question, I've found myself

556
00:34:31,796 --> 00:34:36,076
Speaker 1: returned to this place of like almost purity and spirituality

557
00:34:36,156 --> 00:34:39,316
Speaker 1: around music, like the love of music for the sake

558
00:34:39,356 --> 00:34:43,516
Speaker 1: of music. And if it has commercial viability, fine, but

559
00:34:43,596 --> 00:34:48,276
Speaker 1: that's not the goal or the utility of it. It's

560
00:34:48,396 --> 00:34:56,396
Speaker 1: that ability to somehow communicate emotion through moving air molecules.

561
00:34:56,436 --> 00:34:58,716
Speaker 1: Like what better way for us to spend our lives

562
00:34:58,716 --> 00:35:01,756
Speaker 1: than in service of that. Yes, it's unbelievable that we

563
00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:05,116
Speaker 1: get to do it. I feel very blessed and lucky

564
00:35:05,356 --> 00:35:09,676
Speaker 1: to get to have that be the the thing I

565
00:35:09,676 --> 00:35:12,836
Speaker 1: get to spend my time doing. And it is miraculous

566
00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:18,756
Speaker 1: and it's magic, and I think it must always be

567
00:35:18,836 --> 00:35:22,636
Speaker 1: approached with humility because it's so much bigger than we are.

568
00:35:22,876 --> 00:35:27,356
Speaker 1: You know, really, it really is a tremendous You described

569
00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:32,676
Speaker 1: it in a very ephemeral way that said, it's this

570
00:35:32,956 --> 00:35:39,596
Speaker 1: huge power that's really beyond us, beyond our understanding, and

571
00:35:39,636 --> 00:35:42,676
Speaker 1: the fact that we get to dance around the edges

572
00:35:42,716 --> 00:35:46,276
Speaker 1: of it is just a beautiful, so lucky that we

573
00:35:46,316 --> 00:35:49,116
Speaker 1: get to do that. Yeah, I would say that. I mean,

574
00:35:49,156 --> 00:35:52,996
Speaker 1: even my broader spiritual understanding is sort of what you

575
00:35:53,116 --> 00:35:58,796
Speaker 1: just described, is like dancing around things that we will

576
00:35:58,836 --> 00:36:03,396
Speaker 1: never understand. Yeah, whether it's nature, whether it's science, whether

577
00:36:03,436 --> 00:36:07,236
Speaker 1: it's music, whether it's people at their best, but just

578
00:36:07,876 --> 00:36:12,236
Speaker 1: somehow getting glimpses of what, for lack of a better word,

579
00:36:12,236 --> 00:36:14,916
Speaker 1: I guess we could call the divine. Yes, you know,

580
00:36:14,916 --> 00:36:16,716
Speaker 1: and I don't know when I say divine. I know

581
00:36:16,756 --> 00:36:19,196
Speaker 1: that such an I had. I had dinner with um

582
00:36:19,236 --> 00:36:23,276
Speaker 1: Sam Harris, and I think I really offended him because

583
00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:27,036
Speaker 1: I was talking about the divine, and I realized in hindsight, like, oh,

584
00:36:27,076 --> 00:36:29,316
Speaker 1: maybe not such a good idea to talk about the

585
00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:35,596
Speaker 1: divine with one of the world's most famous atheists. But

586
00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:38,716
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to describe it. Yeah, you

587
00:36:38,796 --> 00:36:44,796
Speaker 1: know what what you just described then the unquantifiable that

588
00:36:44,956 --> 00:36:48,396
Speaker 1: is somehow a trillion times bigger than we are, but

589
00:36:48,556 --> 00:36:52,436
Speaker 1: somehow we're involved in it. Like if there's a better

590
00:36:52,476 --> 00:36:55,596
Speaker 1: word than divine, I don't know what it like, it

591
00:36:55,636 --> 00:36:57,796
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's like it doesn't matter what label you

592
00:36:57,916 --> 00:37:01,396
Speaker 1: decide to use. I know exactly what you're talking about,

593
00:37:01,756 --> 00:37:05,396
Speaker 1: and so did Sam. He was still kind of I

594
00:37:05,396 --> 00:37:07,556
Speaker 1: could tell he and his wife were a little a

595
00:37:07,596 --> 00:37:10,836
Speaker 1: little peeved that I would use that works. I also

596
00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:12,836
Speaker 1: made the mistake with them of using the word God,

597
00:37:13,916 --> 00:37:17,716
Speaker 1: And in hindsight, this was my fault because, like I

598
00:37:17,756 --> 00:37:20,836
Speaker 1: think they even said, like, why would you use that word?

599
00:37:21,596 --> 00:37:23,636
Speaker 1: And I thought about it, I was like, oh, you're right, Like,

600
00:37:23,716 --> 00:37:27,836
Speaker 1: if ever there has a more corrupted word in human history,

601
00:37:28,116 --> 00:37:30,676
Speaker 1: it's God. And if I use the word God to

602
00:37:30,756 --> 00:37:36,116
Speaker 1: mean these elements, I don't understand everything we just described. Clearly,

603
00:37:36,396 --> 00:37:38,876
Speaker 1: that's not what most people in human history have used

604
00:37:38,876 --> 00:37:41,836
Speaker 1: the word God to describe. So I'm trying to back

605
00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:45,236
Speaker 1: away from that word because it's so triggering understandably for

606
00:37:45,276 --> 00:37:47,796
Speaker 1: so many people. I don't know that the word is

607
00:37:47,836 --> 00:37:51,076
Speaker 1: triggering so much as the concept is triggering and though

608
00:37:51,076 --> 00:37:53,476
Speaker 1: you could label it differently, to someone who would be

609
00:37:53,476 --> 00:37:56,676
Speaker 1: triggered by the word, what you're talking about would still

610
00:37:56,716 --> 00:38:01,036
Speaker 1: be a foreign, foreign and perhaps offensive concept. And that's okay,

611
00:38:01,076 --> 00:38:03,716
Speaker 1: because we all have our own experience of life, and

612
00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:06,956
Speaker 1: you know, we're allowed to like some things and other

613
00:38:06,996 --> 00:38:09,276
Speaker 1: people don't like them, and that's you know, a lot

614
00:38:09,276 --> 00:38:11,196
Speaker 1: of people don't like punk rock. We happen to like

615
00:38:11,316 --> 00:38:14,236
Speaker 1: punk rock. You know, I like disco music, not a

616
00:38:14,236 --> 00:38:16,556
Speaker 1: lot of you know, many people don't like disco music.

617
00:38:16,756 --> 00:38:23,036
Speaker 1: It's okay. So speaking of punk rock, I'm wondering because

618
00:38:23,196 --> 00:38:26,156
Speaker 1: there aren't too many people. And if you were not

619
00:38:26,196 --> 00:38:29,396
Speaker 1: going to join me in this club, that's fine. Is

620
00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:32,316
Speaker 1: one of the things I've done in the Pandemics, I've

621
00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:37,476
Speaker 1: gone down this weird rabbit hole of the loudest, noisiest,

622
00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:41,956
Speaker 1: dishybrid of punk rock and speed metal, and I love

623
00:38:41,956 --> 00:38:45,716
Speaker 1: it so much, and I cannot find anybody else on

624
00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:48,676
Speaker 1: the planet who likes it. Even my punk rock friends

625
00:38:49,116 --> 00:38:52,756
Speaker 1: don't like it. Like there's this one band ac x

626
00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:55,956
Speaker 1: DC spelled exactly the same as a CDC, but it's

627
00:38:56,116 --> 00:38:59,156
Speaker 1: there they for them, it stands for Antichrist Demon Corps

628
00:39:01,796 --> 00:39:06,676
Speaker 1: and they're these wonderful Latino vegans who live in the valley,

629
00:39:06,796 --> 00:39:11,796
Speaker 1: and the music they make is so oh. It's takes

630
00:39:11,796 --> 00:39:16,436
Speaker 1: the hardcore we grew up with, take Slayer yeah, and

631
00:39:16,556 --> 00:39:20,196
Speaker 1: then make it faster and harder. So much so I

632
00:39:20,236 --> 00:39:22,516
Speaker 1: sent it to Daryl from The Bad Brains and he

633
00:39:22,596 --> 00:39:24,676
Speaker 1: was like, I will not listen to this ship, Like,

634
00:39:24,956 --> 00:39:29,076
Speaker 1: please do not corrupt me with this. And some of

635
00:39:29,076 --> 00:39:32,076
Speaker 1: the stuff I've gotten into reminds is starting to remind

636
00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:34,636
Speaker 1: me of that where it's like everybody in my life

637
00:39:34,876 --> 00:39:38,196
Speaker 1: thinks it's unlistenable and I love it. We have to

638
00:39:38,196 --> 00:39:40,436
Speaker 1: pause for a quick break, but we'll be right back

639
00:39:40,476 --> 00:39:46,516
Speaker 1: with more from Moby. We're back with the rest of

640
00:39:46,596 --> 00:39:49,836
Speaker 1: Rick Rubens conversation with Moby. What have you been listening

641
00:39:49,836 --> 00:39:56,276
Speaker 1: too lately? Besides speed punk the most eclectic stuff, I

642
00:39:56,316 --> 00:39:59,556
Speaker 1: listened to a lot of classical music, although my interest

643
00:39:59,636 --> 00:40:03,156
Speaker 1: in classical music is pretty pedestrian, like I like classical

644
00:40:03,236 --> 00:40:08,116
Speaker 1: music when it's very pretty, but also a lot and

645
00:40:08,156 --> 00:40:10,956
Speaker 1: I'm also little bit ashamed because none of this is new.

646
00:40:11,756 --> 00:40:17,476
Speaker 1: But a lot of old new wave from like seventy

647
00:40:17,516 --> 00:40:22,556
Speaker 1: eight until about eighty four, you know, from early Devo

648
00:40:23,356 --> 00:40:29,236
Speaker 1: to early Robin Hitchcock Blondie. I've been rediscovering one band

649
00:40:29,276 --> 00:40:33,836
Speaker 1: I'd forgotten about completely who I've realized I love and

650
00:40:34,276 --> 00:40:37,196
Speaker 1: I also feel like they were performance artists. Was the Cars?

651
00:40:37,716 --> 00:40:40,836
Speaker 1: I want to reference something recent. I don't want to

652
00:40:40,876 --> 00:40:45,156
Speaker 1: just be another like just an old guy on Spotify

653
00:40:45,316 --> 00:40:48,316
Speaker 1: listening to music from childhood. But the truth is I'm

654
00:40:48,356 --> 00:40:52,596
Speaker 1: an old guy from on Spotify listening music from my childhood. Usually.

655
00:40:53,036 --> 00:40:55,676
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the cars for a minute, because as

656
00:40:55,756 --> 00:40:59,436
Speaker 1: you talk about them, I think about the vocal style

657
00:40:59,716 --> 00:41:03,596
Speaker 1: of the Cars that was different than music that had

658
00:41:03,636 --> 00:41:05,996
Speaker 1: come before it. Do you have any idea what the

659
00:41:06,076 --> 00:41:10,796
Speaker 1: lineage of that might have been? Not really, although the

660
00:41:10,836 --> 00:41:13,236
Speaker 1: only thing I can think of is that they were

661
00:41:13,316 --> 00:41:16,396
Speaker 1: from Boston, and I don't know if they were inspired

662
00:41:16,436 --> 00:41:20,076
Speaker 1: by the Modern Lovers and Jonathan Richmond at all. That's interesting,

663
00:41:20,516 --> 00:41:23,676
Speaker 1: But there is like you'd listened to, like the directness

664
00:41:23,676 --> 00:41:28,716
Speaker 1: of a song like Pablo Picasso maybe influenced Rick Okasick

665
00:41:28,796 --> 00:41:31,516
Speaker 1: in the Cars. I don't know. Yeah, I was. I

666
00:41:31,556 --> 00:41:35,196
Speaker 1: was thinking maybe, and I never made the connection before

667
00:41:35,316 --> 00:41:38,636
Speaker 1: this conversation, but I was thinking maybe Bowie. I mean,

668
00:41:38,676 --> 00:41:43,396
Speaker 1: everybody who was smart enough to figure it out was

669
00:41:43,436 --> 00:41:46,796
Speaker 1: influenced by Bowie. I feel like some people like Rick Okasick,

670
00:41:46,796 --> 00:41:49,116
Speaker 1: who might have been like it wasn't a good enough

671
00:41:49,156 --> 00:41:53,356
Speaker 1: singer to be David Bowie, but could still employ that

672
00:41:53,436 --> 00:41:56,356
Speaker 1: sort of you know, the theatricality and the phrasing and

673
00:41:56,436 --> 00:41:59,876
Speaker 1: maybe because a little bit of you know, Iggy pop,

674
00:41:59,916 --> 00:42:05,156
Speaker 1: because there's a similar sort of like Midwestern drawl aspect

675
00:42:05,156 --> 00:42:08,956
Speaker 1: to it. And I think Iggy was really often channeling

676
00:42:10,316 --> 00:42:14,236
Speaker 1: Lou Read I think, like, I think that's the lineage. Yeah,

677
00:42:14,236 --> 00:42:17,276
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know that David Bowie was obsessed

678
00:42:17,316 --> 00:42:21,636
Speaker 1: with the Velvet Underground, And in fact, I actually had

679
00:42:21,756 --> 00:42:26,116
Speaker 1: dinner with David and Lou once. It was one of

680
00:42:26,156 --> 00:42:30,716
Speaker 1: those moments that it still doesn't seem like it should

681
00:42:30,756 --> 00:42:35,236
Speaker 1: have existed in the realm of possibility, like walking to

682
00:42:35,356 --> 00:42:40,676
Speaker 1: David Bowie's apartment to have dinner with David and Lou incredible. Yeah,

683
00:42:40,756 --> 00:42:45,076
Speaker 1: growing up listening to musicians who you know and deifying

684
00:42:45,196 --> 00:42:47,756
Speaker 1: them and then time passes. I'm sure you've had this

685
00:42:47,836 --> 00:42:52,516
Speaker 1: experience more than anyone. Becoming friends with and working with

686
00:42:53,116 --> 00:42:55,916
Speaker 1: your heroes. I feel like at this point you've done

687
00:42:55,916 --> 00:42:58,396
Speaker 1: that so many times you must be relatively comfortable with

688
00:42:58,436 --> 00:43:03,236
Speaker 1: the process. Yes, and no, it's still I mean, it's

689
00:43:03,236 --> 00:43:06,796
Speaker 1: still unbelievable anytime I'm lucky enough to be around anyone

690
00:43:06,836 --> 00:43:10,756
Speaker 1: who makes something great. So it's exciting, And honestly, it's

691
00:43:10,756 --> 00:43:14,716
Speaker 1: maybe more intimidating when you grew up listening to them,

692
00:43:14,756 --> 00:43:18,516
Speaker 1: but it's equally exciting when it's a young artist, even

693
00:43:18,556 --> 00:43:23,516
Speaker 1: making their first or second project. But you see that

694
00:43:23,716 --> 00:43:31,036
Speaker 1: level of originality and sophistication and next level thinking in

695
00:43:31,076 --> 00:43:33,276
Speaker 1: their work. Do you know what I'm saying? Like the

696
00:43:33,316 --> 00:43:37,356
Speaker 1: excitement of being around really creative people, it's always thrilling.

697
00:43:38,076 --> 00:43:39,756
Speaker 1: Can you I mean, I don't want to put you

698
00:43:39,796 --> 00:43:42,756
Speaker 1: on the spot. Can you name names like people who

699
00:43:42,756 --> 00:43:45,396
Speaker 1: stand out when you think of that? Well, I can

700
00:43:45,436 --> 00:43:47,276
Speaker 1: tell you, like, in terms of people that I've been

701
00:43:47,276 --> 00:43:49,516
Speaker 1: around where I feel intimidated, it'd be like, you know,

702
00:43:49,636 --> 00:43:53,596
Speaker 1: Neil Young is intimidating to be around, even though there's

703
00:43:53,596 --> 00:43:56,276
Speaker 1: nothing about him that's intimidating, but he's on such a

704
00:43:56,356 --> 00:44:00,156
Speaker 1: high pedestal in my life that I'm on edge when

705
00:44:00,196 --> 00:44:03,836
Speaker 1: I see him. Do you know it's funny? Sorry for interrupting,

706
00:44:03,876 --> 00:44:06,796
Speaker 1: but I A few years ago, I was at a

707
00:44:06,836 --> 00:44:11,236
Speaker 1: gallery event with Shepherd fairy and Shephard asked me, He said, oh,

708
00:44:11,356 --> 00:44:13,156
Speaker 1: Neil Young is here. Do you want to meet him?

709
00:44:13,676 --> 00:44:15,956
Speaker 1: And I actually said no, yeah, And I was like,

710
00:44:16,116 --> 00:44:18,716
Speaker 1: the reason being is like, I'm sure that he's wonderful.

711
00:44:18,756 --> 00:44:22,596
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's a delightful human being, but what if

712
00:44:22,636 --> 00:44:25,436
Speaker 1: I catch him at a bad moment and what if

713
00:44:25,476 --> 00:44:28,196
Speaker 1: for a brief second he's a dick to me? I

714
00:44:28,276 --> 00:44:33,036
Speaker 1: was like, that compromises my ability to love after the

715
00:44:33,116 --> 00:44:37,036
Speaker 1: gold Rush and Helpless And I was like, I was like,

716
00:44:37,076 --> 00:44:41,956
Speaker 1: I'm not willing to potentially jeopardize those songs for me. Yeah.

717
00:44:41,996 --> 00:44:43,956
Speaker 1: And so it's the one time I chose not to

718
00:44:43,996 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 1: meet one of my heroes in the interest of making

719
00:44:47,116 --> 00:44:50,956
Speaker 1: sure that I didn't compromise my ability to unconditionally love

720
00:44:50,996 --> 00:44:55,196
Speaker 1: these songs. No, I understood. I mean, some people are

721
00:44:55,276 --> 00:44:59,356
Speaker 1: so iconic, for better or worse, that it's hard to

722
00:44:59,396 --> 00:45:05,116
Speaker 1: remember that they're real humans. Yeah. I had a similar

723
00:45:05,516 --> 00:45:09,036
Speaker 1: weird experience. I played a fundraiser once and Paul McCartney

724
00:45:09,236 --> 00:45:13,076
Speaker 1: playing on the bill and he was sound checking, and

725
00:45:13,116 --> 00:45:16,196
Speaker 1: he sound checked with Hey Jude, and so it's just

726
00:45:16,356 --> 00:45:21,036
Speaker 1: him at the piano playing Hey Jude, no band, nothing,

727
00:45:21,836 --> 00:45:23,956
Speaker 1: And I sat ten feet away from that, and I

728
00:45:23,996 --> 00:45:28,316
Speaker 1: was like, oh he wrote this, Like there was a

729
00:45:28,476 --> 00:45:33,516
Speaker 1: day when in the morning this song didn't exist, and

730
00:45:33,596 --> 00:45:36,516
Speaker 1: at some point during the day he wrote this song,

731
00:45:36,636 --> 00:45:40,676
Speaker 1: this song which it seems like, I mean, a song

732
00:45:40,756 --> 00:45:43,196
Speaker 1: like that so iconic that it seems like no one

733
00:45:43,236 --> 00:45:46,676
Speaker 1: ever wrote it. It was just sort of like carved

734
00:45:46,756 --> 00:45:50,876
Speaker 1: from granite at some point. Yes, forever it's been it's

735
00:45:50,916 --> 00:45:54,676
Speaker 1: been here forever. Yeah, there's there was no world before that.

736
00:45:54,796 --> 00:45:57,196
Speaker 1: And so being able to say, like, I can't believe

737
00:45:57,276 --> 00:46:01,476
Speaker 1: that there is actually like a flesh and blood person

738
00:46:02,316 --> 00:46:04,836
Speaker 1: attached to this. Obviously it's not even my favorite Beatles song,

739
00:46:04,876 --> 00:46:06,956
Speaker 1: but it was just this moment of like the cognitive

740
00:46:06,996 --> 00:46:12,796
Speaker 1: dissonance of oh, these some of these people are actually humans,

741
00:46:12,836 --> 00:46:15,756
Speaker 1: Like they're not gods, they're not cartoon characters. Like I

742
00:46:15,796 --> 00:46:18,796
Speaker 1: went on tour with David Bowie, and I remember the

743
00:46:18,876 --> 00:46:22,676
Speaker 1: last night of the tour in we were at the

744
00:46:22,716 --> 00:46:26,716
Speaker 1: Gorge outside Seattle, and he was backstage and he was

745
00:46:26,916 --> 00:46:30,676
Speaker 1: so delightful and goofy, like we'd spent a ton of

746
00:46:30,676 --> 00:46:32,916
Speaker 1: time together, but this was the first time I had

747
00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:36,196
Speaker 1: seen him at his most unguarded, like he was sweaty,

748
00:46:36,236 --> 00:46:40,556
Speaker 1: he'd just had a wonderful show, and he was human,

749
00:46:41,196 --> 00:46:42,996
Speaker 1: almost going back to what we were talking about earlier,

750
00:46:43,116 --> 00:46:45,596
Speaker 1: like the shadow self, Like this might have been like

751
00:46:46,196 --> 00:46:50,276
Speaker 1: his shadow self, because it was childlike and delightful, you know,

752
00:46:50,556 --> 00:46:52,396
Speaker 1: like maybe a part of him that he didn't want

753
00:46:52,436 --> 00:46:55,676
Speaker 1: people to see that much. And it was so endearing

754
00:46:55,716 --> 00:46:59,356
Speaker 1: and so lovely. And I was like, this is David Bowie,

755
00:46:59,396 --> 00:47:03,476
Speaker 1: Like this is the greatest musician of all time, and

756
00:47:03,596 --> 00:47:07,236
Speaker 1: he's acting like a super lovely, goofy fourteen year old

757
00:47:07,316 --> 00:47:11,276
Speaker 1: right now. How did you come to meet him? Originally? Well,

758
00:47:11,316 --> 00:47:14,636
Speaker 1: I actually met him for the first time at a

759
00:47:14,756 --> 00:47:17,796
Speaker 1: nine inch Nails party, but we didn't really get to

760
00:47:17,796 --> 00:47:21,476
Speaker 1: talk much. And then in nineteen ninety nine or two thousand,

761
00:47:21,556 --> 00:47:25,636
Speaker 1: he emailed me and he said, Hi, it's David. I

762
00:47:25,676 --> 00:47:28,156
Speaker 1: got your email address from someone at my record company.

763
00:47:28,676 --> 00:47:32,996
Speaker 1: I'm moving into an apartment on Lafayette Street and I

764
00:47:33,036 --> 00:47:36,996
Speaker 1: think we're going to be neighbors. And so we lived

765
00:47:36,996 --> 00:47:40,876
Speaker 1: across the street from each other and we became friends.

766
00:47:40,996 --> 00:47:45,076
Speaker 1: We would get coffee together, we spent holidays together, we

767
00:47:46,356 --> 00:47:49,716
Speaker 1: worked on music together, we toured together. Can I tell

768
00:47:49,716 --> 00:47:54,076
Speaker 1: you one of my favorite favorite David Bowie stories please, Okay.

769
00:47:54,276 --> 00:47:57,756
Speaker 1: So we had agreed to play a fundraiser for Philip

770
00:47:57,756 --> 00:48:01,076
Speaker 1: Glasses to Beth House, and so he came over to

771
00:48:01,156 --> 00:48:04,396
Speaker 1: my apartment one morning. He stopped at Cafe Giton to

772
00:48:04,436 --> 00:48:07,996
Speaker 1: get coffee, so he came over with coffee and we

773
00:48:08,076 --> 00:48:11,636
Speaker 1: sat on my soa and I worked up all my

774
00:48:11,716 --> 00:48:14,876
Speaker 1: courage and I said, what if we play an acoustic

775
00:48:14,996 --> 00:48:19,116
Speaker 1: version of Heroes at this fundraiser? And I thought he

776
00:48:19,156 --> 00:48:22,516
Speaker 1: was going to say no, no, how dare you suggest that?

777
00:48:22,556 --> 00:48:25,076
Speaker 1: And instead he said sure, why not? So he sat

778
00:48:25,156 --> 00:48:27,956
Speaker 1: on my sofa, just the two of us, and played

779
00:48:27,956 --> 00:48:32,716
Speaker 1: this very slow, pretty quiet version of Heroes and it

780
00:48:32,796 --> 00:48:35,636
Speaker 1: was like one of the most wonderful moments of my life.

781
00:48:36,516 --> 00:48:40,796
Speaker 1: And then, afterwards, tying it back to lou Reid, David

782
00:48:40,876 --> 00:48:44,676
Speaker 1: told me that Heroes was originally written as a cover

783
00:48:44,836 --> 00:48:48,476
Speaker 1: version of Waiting for the Man. Wow Dun dun dun

784
00:48:48,516 --> 00:48:51,916
Speaker 1: dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun un. I'm

785
00:48:51,956 --> 00:48:55,716
Speaker 1: waiting for the man. We we would be, you know.

786
00:48:56,316 --> 00:49:02,436
Speaker 1: So that was That's my favorite David Bowie story. Fantastic. Actually, no,

787
00:49:02,556 --> 00:49:04,676
Speaker 1: I have a second favorite David Bowie story, but it's

788
00:49:04,796 --> 00:49:08,196
Speaker 1: much let's hear it, it's more nuanced. Okay, let's let's

789
00:49:08,236 --> 00:49:11,076
Speaker 1: hear it. I was at his apartment and he had

790
00:49:11,076 --> 00:49:15,316
Speaker 1: a very small studio in his apartment, and he wanted

791
00:49:15,356 --> 00:49:18,476
Speaker 1: to play me something and it's like, okay, great, he says.

792
00:49:18,516 --> 00:49:20,196
Speaker 1: He said, it's a song I'm working on. I'd love

793
00:49:20,236 --> 00:49:22,476
Speaker 1: your opinion. And I, first of all, just to put

794
00:49:22,476 --> 00:49:25,036
Speaker 1: that in perspective, like I'm at David Bowie's apartment and

795
00:49:25,036 --> 00:49:27,396
Speaker 1: he wants to play me a song to get my opinion.

796
00:49:27,476 --> 00:49:29,716
Speaker 1: Like that's not right, that's not the way it's supposed

797
00:49:29,716 --> 00:49:32,916
Speaker 1: to be. Like I'm supposed to be maybe like cleaning

798
00:49:32,956 --> 00:49:36,636
Speaker 1: the toilets in the apartment adjacent to David Bowie's apartment,

799
00:49:36,636 --> 00:49:40,436
Speaker 1: not in his apartment. But he plays me this song

800
00:49:40,916 --> 00:49:45,276
Speaker 1: and it's the most beautiful David Bowie song ever. It's

801
00:49:45,276 --> 00:49:49,636
Speaker 1: called slip Away and it's on the album Heathen, and

802
00:49:49,676 --> 00:49:54,116
Speaker 1: it's I would say, the most personal song he's ever written.

803
00:49:54,156 --> 00:49:56,876
Speaker 1: It's actually inspired by his love, like his love with

804
00:49:56,996 --> 00:50:00,436
Speaker 1: Iggy Pop, like you know, friendship. Whether it was more

805
00:50:00,476 --> 00:50:02,676
Speaker 1: than friendship, I don't really know, but like it's this

806
00:50:02,916 --> 00:50:08,996
Speaker 1: beautiful love song and it is so emotional, and I

807
00:50:09,836 --> 00:50:13,476
Speaker 1: that moment of just sitting in his studio where he

808
00:50:14,316 --> 00:50:17,476
Speaker 1: played the CD the demo of this song for me,

809
00:50:18,756 --> 00:50:21,556
Speaker 1: and he was nervous and it was done, and I

810
00:50:21,596 --> 00:50:23,756
Speaker 1: was like, David, I said, that might be the most

811
00:50:23,796 --> 00:50:26,756
Speaker 1: beautiful song you've ever written. How did he react to

812
00:50:26,836 --> 00:50:29,556
Speaker 1: that comment? You know, it's funny because we never talked

813
00:50:29,556 --> 00:50:34,476
Speaker 1: about music. If I remember, he responded a little formally

814
00:50:34,596 --> 00:50:36,516
Speaker 1: and in a polite way, which is the same way

815
00:50:36,556 --> 00:50:39,276
Speaker 1: I respond to people telling me about music. Like he

816
00:50:39,396 --> 00:50:43,316
Speaker 1: almost like he took it in, but I could tell

817
00:50:43,356 --> 00:50:46,276
Speaker 1: a sort of a wall came up. I think he

818
00:50:46,396 --> 00:50:49,836
Speaker 1: felt exposed because it if you think about it, most

819
00:50:49,876 --> 00:50:54,516
Speaker 1: of his music is not personal. It's beautiful, it's phenomenal,

820
00:50:55,316 --> 00:50:59,596
Speaker 1: but rarely did he write personal songs. You know, they're

821
00:50:59,756 --> 00:51:03,396
Speaker 1: very theatrical. I mean even Heroes. Heroes was written about

822
00:51:03,396 --> 00:51:09,476
Speaker 1: Tony Visconti, and this song slip Away is so personal,

823
00:51:09,556 --> 00:51:12,676
Speaker 1: and I think it I think I saw his defenses

824
00:51:12,676 --> 00:51:15,716
Speaker 1: come down because he realized he was being perhaps a

825
00:51:15,716 --> 00:51:20,676
Speaker 1: little too vulnerable. Yeah, what was the greatest dance music

826
00:51:20,876 --> 00:51:24,796
Speaker 1: experience you've ever had out in the world. Okay, they're

827
00:51:24,796 --> 00:51:30,796
Speaker 1: gonna be two of them. One was the first time

828
00:51:30,836 --> 00:51:34,956
Speaker 1: I heard house music loud in a club. I think

829
00:51:34,956 --> 00:51:38,836
Speaker 1: he would have been eighty eight or eighty nine. I

830
00:51:38,876 --> 00:51:42,356
Speaker 1: was at Nels and I was in the basement. I

831
00:51:42,396 --> 00:51:45,956
Speaker 1: was dancing next to Prince, the only time I ever

832
00:51:45,996 --> 00:51:47,956
Speaker 1: saw Prince in person when he was dancing next to

833
00:51:47,996 --> 00:51:51,356
Speaker 1: me in the basement of Nels, and the DJ, who

834
00:51:51,396 --> 00:51:54,956
Speaker 1: I think was Frankie I Gleasias, played a Day in

835
00:51:54,996 --> 00:52:01,516
Speaker 1: the Life and it sounded like the heavens opening up.

836
00:52:02,236 --> 00:52:06,796
Speaker 1: The second was in about two thousand and seven, No,

837
00:52:06,996 --> 00:52:10,116
Speaker 1: maybe two thousand and eight. I got asked to DJ

838
00:52:11,036 --> 00:52:16,036
Speaker 1: at an Electric Daisy Carnival, and I had been sort

839
00:52:16,076 --> 00:52:20,116
Speaker 1: of ignoring what I was like. I'd sort of been

840
00:52:20,116 --> 00:52:23,636
Speaker 1: ignoring the dance music quote unquote underground for a while.

841
00:52:24,396 --> 00:52:28,516
Speaker 1: So I was asked to DJ at this. What I

842
00:52:28,556 --> 00:52:33,396
Speaker 1: thought was just like an outdoor, small, outdoor rave, and

843
00:52:33,836 --> 00:52:36,556
Speaker 1: so much so that when my manager asked me about

844
00:52:36,596 --> 00:52:38,676
Speaker 1: if I wanted to DJ at this, he said, oh,

845
00:52:38,716 --> 00:52:40,756
Speaker 1: there's a rave in Los Angeles, do you want to

846
00:52:40,876 --> 00:52:44,396
Speaker 1: DJ at it? And my response was they still have raves,

847
00:52:45,716 --> 00:52:48,436
Speaker 1: and so I thought, I don't know, I'm going to

848
00:52:48,636 --> 00:52:51,756
Speaker 1: feel there'll be a thousand people it was in the

849
00:52:51,876 --> 00:52:56,916
Speaker 1: usc Stadium and there were seventy five thousand people, and

850
00:52:57,756 --> 00:53:02,036
Speaker 1: I was so stunning, Like to expect nothing and to

851
00:53:02,116 --> 00:53:06,196
Speaker 1: have an underground event with seventy five thousand people in

852
00:53:06,316 --> 00:53:12,516
Speaker 1: a sports stadium and the level of joyful enthusiasm, Like

853
00:53:12,556 --> 00:53:14,556
Speaker 1: there were just a couple of records that I played

854
00:53:14,596 --> 00:53:18,276
Speaker 1: that were so euphoric, and to have seventy five thousand

855
00:53:18,316 --> 00:53:23,436
Speaker 1: people responding in kind. I mean, that's happened to many times,

856
00:53:23,436 --> 00:53:27,756
Speaker 1: but something about this was just really special amazing. Do

857
00:53:27,836 --> 00:53:32,236
Speaker 1: you do any type of a spiritual practice? For most

858
00:53:32,276 --> 00:53:36,396
Speaker 1: of my life I was a sort of I would think,

859
00:53:36,396 --> 00:53:42,196
Speaker 1: if it's almost like a spiritual dilaton, sometimes out of curiosity,

860
00:53:42,356 --> 00:53:47,916
Speaker 1: sometimes out of a desire to not piss off whatever

861
00:53:48,036 --> 00:53:51,316
Speaker 1: deity might be out there. But for most of my

862
00:53:51,396 --> 00:53:58,796
Speaker 1: life I realized that my spirituality was largely trying to

863
00:53:58,876 --> 00:54:05,396
Speaker 1: figure out who I agreed with, like which spiritual tradition

864
00:54:05,556 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 1: I agreed with, or which spiritual writer did I agree with?

865
00:54:09,596 --> 00:54:13,236
Speaker 1: And then I had this another sort of epiphany, and

866
00:54:13,276 --> 00:54:16,916
Speaker 1: it was a weirdly emotional epiphany, and I don't even

867
00:54:16,956 --> 00:54:19,916
Speaker 1: I might even get emotional again. I was taking Amtrak

868
00:54:20,076 --> 00:54:23,156
Speaker 1: from New York down to DC and it was one

869
00:54:23,156 --> 00:54:27,876
Speaker 1: of those morning trains where like people are eating breakfast, etc.

870
00:54:28,836 --> 00:54:31,636
Speaker 1: And I was looking around and there were all these

871
00:54:32,316 --> 00:54:37,876
Speaker 1: unhealthy business people, like drinking coke, eating bacon, and I

872
00:54:37,956 --> 00:54:42,756
Speaker 1: had this thought. I was like, Oh, nature, the universe

873
00:54:43,316 --> 00:54:47,716
Speaker 1: cares about us so much. It's even trying to heal

874
00:54:47,916 --> 00:54:52,356
Speaker 1: these people. Like these people who do nothing but punish themselves,

875
00:54:52,356 --> 00:54:57,196
Speaker 1: these people who eat nothing but poison, the universe loves

876
00:54:57,276 --> 00:55:01,476
Speaker 1: them like it's in and it's trying to heal them.

877
00:55:01,876 --> 00:55:04,556
Speaker 1: And actually, sitting on Amtrak, I started crying with that thought.

878
00:55:04,556 --> 00:55:07,156
Speaker 1: And I remember like going through the marshland, the meadowlands

879
00:55:07,156 --> 00:55:10,156
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, looking out at the marsh, and I

880
00:55:10,236 --> 00:55:13,316
Speaker 1: was like, it was similar to looking at the businessman.

881
00:55:13,356 --> 00:55:15,636
Speaker 1: I was like, here's this marsh that we've done nothing

882
00:55:15,676 --> 00:55:19,956
Speaker 1: but poor toxic chemicals into and life is still coming

883
00:55:19,996 --> 00:55:26,076
Speaker 1: through it. So my spiritual practice is best described as

884
00:55:26,836 --> 00:55:32,276
Speaker 1: trying to connect with whatever that source might be, trying

885
00:55:32,316 --> 00:55:36,676
Speaker 1: to have an understanding of it, trying to recognize that

886
00:55:37,316 --> 00:55:39,916
Speaker 1: it's will, Like I don't want to anthropomorphize it, but

887
00:55:40,036 --> 00:55:43,516
Speaker 1: if it has a will, it probably has omniscience and

888
00:55:43,676 --> 00:55:47,676
Speaker 1: perspective much greater than I do you know, I'm a

889
00:55:47,796 --> 00:55:50,756
Speaker 1: short lived, flawed, weird, bald guy like I don't know anything.

890
00:55:50,876 --> 00:55:54,796
Speaker 1: So if there is a universe with a will, it

891
00:55:54,836 --> 00:55:58,436
Speaker 1: probably makes sense to seek its will rather than try

892
00:55:58,476 --> 00:56:02,596
Speaker 1: and pose my will on it. Yes, beautiful, So that's

893
00:56:02,636 --> 00:56:07,116
Speaker 1: my spiel. Tell me a little bit about the new album,

894
00:56:07,236 --> 00:56:09,036
Speaker 1: or let me start by saying, I listened to it

895
00:56:09,156 --> 00:56:12,636
Speaker 1: this morning as I was on my morning walk, and

896
00:56:13,556 --> 00:56:15,836
Speaker 1: it really took my breath away. I think it's really

897
00:56:16,196 --> 00:56:20,236
Speaker 1: a beautiful album, and I'm so glad you made it. Well. Thanks.

898
00:56:21,156 --> 00:56:23,796
Speaker 1: So it's an orchestral greatest Hits album. I wouldn't else

899
00:56:23,956 --> 00:56:28,116
Speaker 1: to describe it, and the selfish part of me wanted

900
00:56:28,156 --> 00:56:30,916
Speaker 1: to make it because I'd never made a record in

901
00:56:30,956 --> 00:56:35,396
Speaker 1: this way, you know, working with a string quartet, working

902
00:56:35,436 --> 00:56:39,716
Speaker 1: with a gospel choir, working with an orchestra, working with

903
00:56:40,516 --> 00:56:45,276
Speaker 1: you only live non for the most part, non electronic instruments.

904
00:56:46,236 --> 00:56:49,476
Speaker 1: But the other part was just the love. And we

905
00:56:49,476 --> 00:56:52,636
Speaker 1: were talking about Neil Young earlier, like the love of

906
00:56:52,716 --> 00:56:56,796
Speaker 1: acoustic and orchestral music and how I don't know how

907
00:56:56,836 --> 00:57:00,956
Speaker 1: effective not to be too clinical, but how effective orchestral

908
00:57:00,956 --> 00:57:04,756
Speaker 1: and acoustic music can be delivering emotion, you know, because

909
00:57:04,796 --> 00:57:08,956
Speaker 1: ultimately that's the utility of music, is delivering emotion, and

910
00:57:09,636 --> 00:57:11,516
Speaker 1: I wanted to see what that was like to try

911
00:57:11,556 --> 00:57:16,876
Speaker 1: and use these elements to create something that hopefully was Yeah,

912
00:57:16,876 --> 00:57:22,076
Speaker 1: so that's that was the reason behind it. And Yeah,

913
00:57:22,076 --> 00:57:24,996
Speaker 1: and being able to get all these different performers. I mean, obviously,

914
00:57:25,396 --> 00:57:29,276
Speaker 1: the person whose voice on the record I'm a Little

915
00:57:29,716 --> 00:57:33,396
Speaker 1: I'm most in love with is Chris Christofferson. Yeah, similar

916
00:57:33,436 --> 00:57:36,916
Speaker 1: to I've actually compared it to Johnny Cash's version of Hurt,

917
00:57:38,316 --> 00:57:45,316
Speaker 1: where when you hear a voice that's the product of experience,

918
00:57:45,396 --> 00:57:48,996
Speaker 1: you know, a voice that has lived experience, it makes

919
00:57:48,996 --> 00:57:51,396
Speaker 1: you not want to listen to children anymore, you know.

920
00:57:51,476 --> 00:57:56,476
Speaker 1: Like like after listening to this song from Chris Christofferson

921
00:57:56,516 --> 00:57:58,996
Speaker 1: with Mark Lanigan, who also has a voice of experience,

922
00:57:59,276 --> 00:58:01,236
Speaker 1: the idea of going and listening to nineteen year old

923
00:58:01,236 --> 00:58:06,316
Speaker 1: pop singers just doesn't seem as compelling. Yeah, you were

924
00:58:06,396 --> 00:58:09,716
Speaker 1: on Mute records for a long time. Yes, I still

925
00:58:09,716 --> 00:58:14,276
Speaker 1: sort of am. I've been on Mute Records somewhere in

926
00:58:14,356 --> 00:58:19,356
Speaker 1: some form for now almost thirty years. This record is

927
00:58:19,356 --> 00:58:22,676
Speaker 1: on Deutsche Gramophone because it just they asked and it

928
00:58:22,756 --> 00:58:26,556
Speaker 1: seemed like, if you're going to make a large like

929
00:58:26,596 --> 00:58:30,556
Speaker 1: a record based around an orchestra, why not make it

930
00:58:30,636 --> 00:58:35,916
Speaker 1: with the oldest, most venerated orchestral music label in the world. So,

931
00:58:36,516 --> 00:58:39,396
Speaker 1: and I have to say, because when I was nineteen,

932
00:58:39,436 --> 00:58:41,476
Speaker 1: I worked in a record store and I would unpack

933
00:58:41,556 --> 00:58:43,916
Speaker 1: the boxes and there would be the records that had

934
00:58:43,916 --> 00:58:46,156
Speaker 1: the Deutsche Gramophone logo on them, and I was like,

935
00:58:46,276 --> 00:58:49,916
Speaker 1: this is so fancy, like this is from Europe, and

936
00:58:49,956 --> 00:58:53,276
Speaker 1: they're like these this is wow, this is so much

937
00:58:53,316 --> 00:58:57,116
Speaker 1: more legitimate than these other records. And I just recently

938
00:58:57,156 --> 00:59:01,356
Speaker 1: got the vinyl of this album and I saw the

939
00:59:01,476 --> 00:59:04,756
Speaker 1: Deutsche Gramophone logo on one of my records, and it

940
00:59:04,876 --> 00:59:10,276
Speaker 1: just it definitely not what you expect as someone who

941
00:59:10,436 --> 00:59:14,196
Speaker 1: used to play in a hardcore punk rock band in

942
00:59:14,236 --> 00:59:17,956
Speaker 1: a basement of illegal anarchists clubs in Stanford, Connecticut. It's great,

943
00:59:18,396 --> 00:59:21,356
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this, amazing. Oh, this was so

944
00:59:21,436 --> 00:59:24,716
Speaker 1: much fun. I had sort of even forgotten that we

945
00:59:24,716 --> 00:59:27,316
Speaker 1: were recording this. Yeah, I feel like we have a

946
00:59:27,396 --> 00:59:34,196
Speaker 1: million things to talk about forever. Thanks to Moby for

947
00:59:34,236 --> 00:59:37,356
Speaker 1: sharing so many great stories from his career. To hear

948
00:59:37,356 --> 00:59:40,516
Speaker 1: his new album, or Prise, and our favorite Moby tracks

949
00:59:40,756 --> 00:59:44,076
Speaker 1: had a Broken Record Podcast dot he should have subscribe

950
00:59:44,076 --> 00:59:47,116
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken

951
00:59:47,116 --> 00:59:50,076
Speaker 1: Record Podcast. We can find all of our new episodes.

952
00:59:50,556 --> 00:59:53,516
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

953
00:59:53,556 --> 00:59:57,676
Speaker 1: Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez,

954
00:59:57,996 --> 01:00:02,156
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafee.

955
01:00:02,196 --> 01:00:05,756
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Mail LaBelle. Broken Record is a

956
01:00:05,756 --> 01:00:08,276
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries and if you like the show,

957
01:00:08,356 --> 01:00:11,796
Speaker 1: please rememriders, share, rate, and review us on your podcast.

958
01:00:11,836 --> 01:00:17,676
Speaker 1: Our theme mus explay Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h