Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of
Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too well. Hold there,
Speaker 1: Welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and de Yeah. So okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna jump into another unsolved mystery. This we wait,
Speaker 1: we cover unsolved mysteries. I thought this was a cooking show. Yeah. Tonight,
Speaker 1: on Thinking Sideways, the podcast we discover why Steve can't
Speaker 1: remember anything from his life. I was drapped on my
Speaker 1: head a lot as a baby. For me, it's just
Speaker 1: the booze and lack of sleep. What are we talking
Speaker 1: about today? Today we are going to talk about the death,
Speaker 1: the mysterious death of Netta for Narreo. So they're looking
Speaker 1: at a picture of a right here. This is what
Speaker 1: you see on most of the web page is a
Speaker 1: deal with this little mystery. Except that's not actually a
Speaker 1: picture of her. That's a picture of somebody named Mona Mathers,
Speaker 1: who figures kind of in this story a little bit.
Speaker 1: But it's not Netta. It's not Netta now now it's Moena.
Speaker 1: Do we have a picture of Netta? No, I've not
Speaker 1: been able to. I thought that that was Netta for
Speaker 1: the longest time checking it out, but now it turns
Speaker 1: out that's Moina Mathers. So we're talking about Netta but not.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just wanted to let people know that
Speaker 1: if you go check this out in the web and
Speaker 1: you see this picture of this kind of good looking
Speaker 1: woman with kind of wild she looks crazy. She's got
Speaker 1: a bird's nest hair do. Yeah yeah, but she's still
Speaker 1: she's still you kind of good looking, you know, but
Speaker 1: spite the hair, yeah, despite the crazy hair. Well, So anyway,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Netta. Okay, so just a quick brief
Speaker 1: intro summary here. In late summer nine, Netta four an
Speaker 1: area thuring three years old, resident of London, England, left
Speaker 1: London and traveled to the island of Iona and probably
Speaker 1: mispronouncing that I think it's Iona, might be Ilana. I
Speaker 1: think it's you know, it's in the Scottish Hebrides. It's
Speaker 1: um anyway, it's it's one of those little bitty tiny
Speaker 1: islands out there that's got a quint little village and
Speaker 1: not much else. So anyway, yeah, a lot to that.
Speaker 1: She was planning an extended stay there. Uh. In late
Speaker 1: November the same year, she went missing. After two days search,
Speaker 1: her naked body was discovered on top of a quote
Speaker 1: very amount unquote because I'll talk about this a little later,
Speaker 1: but everybody believed that this island was like full of
Speaker 1: ghosts and fairies and stuff like that. Well, it was
Speaker 1: the twenties and you know Scotland. We've talked about this before.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she had she or somebody most likely her,
Speaker 1: had cut a large cross in the turf using a dagger,
Speaker 1: which was found near near her body, and laid down
Speaker 1: on the dagger. She was not technically completely naked. She
Speaker 1: had a very thin black cloak on her, but that
Speaker 1: was it. And this is late November in the Scottish Hebrides,
Speaker 1: so obviously it must have and really cold. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Some accounts say that she was clutching some papers in
Speaker 1: her hand, one of her hands letters of a mysterious
Speaker 1: nature and but other accounts say that those letters were
Speaker 1: found in your luggage back in her room. She was
Speaker 1: staying with this lady named Mrs McMurray McRae. Uh. Some
Speaker 1: say that blue lights were seeing in the vicinity of
Speaker 1: her body, but of course there's more than more often
Speaker 1: than not, there's blue lights in these mysteries. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know. And a strange man was supposedly
Speaker 1: lurking nearby wearing a black cloak. Yeah stalker. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: the twins obviously. Yeah, maybe he was wearing her black cloak. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Any way, back to the start, So why didn't you
Speaker 1: go to Iona. Iona's a very tiny island. It's about
Speaker 1: a mile wide, about four miles long. You get to
Speaker 1: it by taking a ferry from the Isle of Mole,
Speaker 1: which is to the east of it. You get to
Speaker 1: the Isle of Mole by taking a ferry to there.
Speaker 1: Not an easy place I assume for this little journey.
Speaker 1: She probably had to take like a long train ride
Speaker 1: and maybe then uh you know, a couple of ferry
Speaker 1: rides at the like from London. It would have been
Speaker 1: from London to the coast, right, yeah, and then on
Speaker 1: a ferry and then likely another train across the island
Speaker 1: or the bus or a car or something. And is
Speaker 1: probably not a whole lot of car traffics. Probably most
Speaker 1: of the community's done via train. Yeah yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: that just doesn't sound like a quick and easy afternoon
Speaker 1: johned Now, not someplace you go to the week go
Speaker 1: for just the weekend or you just happen to be
Speaker 1: at if you just happened to live in the Isle
Speaker 1: of mold That it's a quick, easy, happy John from
Speaker 1: London one of the ways. Anyway. The population that the
Speaker 1: latest census count of the is a hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: seven people. I assume it was fewer people back in
Speaker 1: those days. The only town is called again I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for the mispronunciation, but it's called bail Moore, but the
Speaker 1: locals call it the village, Yeah, the village. The island
Speaker 1: is also home to the Bay at the back of
Speaker 1: the ocean, which is an oddly named bay for such
Speaker 1: a backwater ionas has got a really interesting history. It's
Speaker 1: and it actually the earliest structure found on the island
Speaker 1: was constructed they guess about a hundred years previous to
Speaker 1: Christ and it was what they call an iron age
Speaker 1: hilltop fort was it was probably something that mainly was
Speaker 1: like earthen earthen ramparts kind of thing, probably not as serious,
Speaker 1: but but so it's been inhabited for a long time.
Speaker 1: But in five sixty three a d A monk named Colomba,
Speaker 1: who later became sync Colomba, founded a monastery there. He
Speaker 1: had been exiled to the island for various reasons that
Speaker 1: I don't really need to get into, but if you
Speaker 1: want to hear more about it, I can. I can
Speaker 1: point you towards some links. And anyway, so he and
Speaker 1: about a dozen other monks founded this monastery, and this
Speaker 1: monastery turn as it turned out, would play a crucial
Speaker 1: role in converting most of the UK to Christianity, and
Speaker 1: the island became a center of a very important monastic system,
Speaker 1: and it would also be a major center of learning.
Speaker 1: And it's believed, although nobody knows for sure that the
Speaker 1: Book of Kells was created there, or maybe at least
Speaker 1: part of it was created there. They're not sure if
Speaker 1: the Book of Kells was actually created in just one
Speaker 1: place or in a number of places and assembled. They're
Speaker 1: not refreshed my memory. What is the Book of Kells again?
Speaker 1: Look Atkels is a very very heavily illuminated a series
Speaker 1: of the Gospels. It's not all of the New Testament,
Speaker 1: but but some of it, and very elaborately illustrated. And
Speaker 1: it came out of this region. Yeah, and so they're
Speaker 1: not sure if it came out purely out of Iona
Speaker 1: or not out of iona or just some pages if
Speaker 1: it came out of this place. They don't really know
Speaker 1: for sure it's it's but it's a very well known
Speaker 1: historic Scottish book of the Bible. About yeah, illuminated version.
Speaker 1: Do I'm sorry, do we need to tell people what
Speaker 1: illuminated means? And so if you don't know what illuminated
Speaker 1: text is, it just means that it's been very elaborately
Speaker 1: like embroidered and illustrated. You know, you see a lot
Speaker 1: in like Italian kind of or like you know the yeah,
Speaker 1: actually Italian Catholic stuff, right, it's the like gold filigree
Speaker 1: with like drawings along the sides and like with the
Speaker 1: huge starting letters and drop caps or what they're called, yes,
Speaker 1: and the I think these are the kind of books
Speaker 1: where it would take let's just I'm making up a number,
Speaker 1: but let's just say five months a month to make
Speaker 1: all of the illustrations for one pain and they were
Speaker 1: actually gold leafed and all of it and you had
Speaker 1: to paint the gold on oh yeah, yeah no. And
Speaker 1: if you don't know what one of those are, I mean,
Speaker 1: if if you just haven't seen one before, check they're
Speaker 1: fantastic to to think that somebody sat there with an
Speaker 1: ink pen and a brush to paint all that color
Speaker 1: so painstakingly, and then to brush on liquid gold. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the amazing part. Diana was also a great place
Speaker 1: to be for a while. It was the place to
Speaker 1: be if you were royalty and you were dead, you
Speaker 1: were looking for a place. Yeah. Apparently as of the
Speaker 1: year fifty nine, they were sixty kings buried on the
Speaker 1: island there because were they buried or interred, They were
Speaker 1: interred and and and actually interred can me either being
Speaker 1: buried or being put in a like a corrupt or
Speaker 1: male often royalty. I don't know, it's my my impression
Speaker 1: that often royalty is actually like interred in a masolem
Speaker 1: or Yeah. Well, sometimes they would do the burial mound
Speaker 1: where they would erect you know, they put everything in,
Speaker 1: They give you a little stone structure, and then they
Speaker 1: would cover that in the big burial mounds. So I
Speaker 1: think that's why it's kind of a gray area. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think in this case they were buried in the
Speaker 1: soil though, because the reason that they were buried there
Speaker 1: is there was a belief that the soil of the
Speaker 1: island was holy and that it would remove your sins
Speaker 1: and cleansy so that you could enter heaven more cleanly.
Speaker 1: Really interesting. Yeah, and if your royalty and you spent
Speaker 1: your entire life like in a scheming and you know,
Speaker 1: murdering your opponents in your competition, then you probably want
Speaker 1: a little soul clansy before you enter heaven. But anyway, yes,
Speaker 1: there were forty eight Scottish kings ain't Norwegian kings and
Speaker 1: four Irish kings buried there as of the year fifteen
Speaker 1: forty nine. And it's even mentioned in Shakespeare's Macbeth tragedy. Yes,
Speaker 1: so yeah, there's a there's a reference to it in there,
Speaker 1: and it's the references about Duncan's body He's carried to
Speaker 1: columb Kill and colm Kill means Columbus Island, which is
Speaker 1: another word for Eona carried to colm Kill, the sacred
Speaker 1: storehouse of his predecessors and guardian of their bones. So
Speaker 1: even Eana. Really it was a happening spot. If it
Speaker 1: made for such an IDEO, that's really surprising. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I'm going into all this this travelog thing
Speaker 1: because just as a trying to Yeah, yeah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of fun and besides, which maybe explains from motivation because
Speaker 1: exactly what why would a person might that be motivated
Speaker 1: to ghost, you know, go live on this island. Diona
Speaker 1: is also supposedly inhabited by ghosts, fairies, sea fairies and
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff like this. It's got a long
Speaker 1: long list of legends about this about this place. So
Speaker 1: Netta would find would have found that at active because
Speaker 1: she was into the occult, in the astral projection and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. She was a member of Alpha a Omega,
Speaker 1: which was an offshoot of the Hermetic Order of the
Speaker 1: Golden Dawn, which is another cult group and I don't
Speaker 1: know about at that time, but I know that, like modernly,
Speaker 1: Shakespeare's Scottish Tragedy is pretty well read and regarded in
Speaker 1: terms of kind of occult ghost story stuff. I can
Speaker 1: see how it would be a draw um for her
Speaker 1: as an occult member, for any occult member really, I mean,
Speaker 1: if they if they were read in that sort of
Speaker 1: shakespeare lore situation or I guess anymore, it seems yeah,
Speaker 1: these guys were and that they weren't just into Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: They had all sorts of like magical beliefs. There were
Speaker 1: these things called the Secret Chiefs, which were like these
Speaker 1: cosmic beings, beings that they believed that they had like
Speaker 1: a direct phone line to cosmic chiefs. They're they're they're
Speaker 1: called the Secret Chiefs, I think and to see. And
Speaker 1: so these were cosmological beings that controlled a lot of
Speaker 1: the chaos of the universe, and and they could be
Speaker 1: communicated to according to the leaders of these of these cults,
Speaker 1: that they could communicate with these people. Uh so, the
Speaker 1: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, it was in national
Speaker 1: projections and all kinds of stuff. I had no reason
Speaker 1: to believe that they were into like any of the
Speaker 1: really ugly stuff like you know, human sacrifice and animal
Speaker 1: sacrifice and all that stuff. I don't think they were.
Speaker 1: Um well now, and maybe I'm thinking of the wrong group,
Speaker 1: but I remember there was something that I read about
Speaker 1: one of the one of the guys. It was a
Speaker 1: founder I had asked for somebody to be buried alive
Speaker 1: in front of some building that they had. That was
Speaker 1: I believe that was say Colombu built as monastery. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I was getting it confused, because
Speaker 1: I remember there was something about somebody needs to be
Speaker 1: buried lying in front of this building. All. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was a friend of his friend volume and then they
Speaker 1: know uncover his face so that he can say goodbye
Speaker 1: to everybody, and he's obviously having second facity again. Up again.
Speaker 1: It's really weird, But yeah, is a weird sect of
Speaker 1: Christianity people back in those days. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: life was a little cheaper back in those days, and
Speaker 1: he didn't really need to He didn't really expect to
Speaker 1: live beyond about at thirty five. So maybe this guy
Speaker 1: figured out, what the hell, if I go out on
Speaker 1: a high note like this, I'm gonna be sure to
Speaker 1: get to heaven the whole. The Hermetic Order of the
Speaker 1: Golden Dawn was founded by Samuel mathers uh the group
Speaker 1: with attractive a fair followers ship. In the early nineteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: there was a bit of a sex scandal and so
Speaker 1: he lost some of his some of his temples, but
Speaker 1: the ones that remained that remained loyal to him he
Speaker 1: renamed the alphae Omega or in other words, Alpha and Omega,
Speaker 1: and then after he died in nineteen eighteen, he was
Speaker 1: six seed in the leadership role by his widow, Moyna Mather's.
Speaker 1: Moyna Mather's is the one I showed you the picture
Speaker 1: of the one, the one who appears on Yeah. So, um,
Speaker 1: Netta was a member of this particular sect or cult
Speaker 1: or whatever. But she was just a member, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she wasn't, as far as I know, in any kind
Speaker 1: of leadership role. Moya eventually succeeded in expelling someone named
Speaker 1: Dionfortune from the Order. The Unfortune was a woman who
Speaker 1: actually was friends with Netta for an area, but she
Speaker 1: published some of the air some of the cult secrets.
Speaker 1: I believe it was in about two she actually published
Speaker 1: some of those. And also it was rumored that Moyna
Speaker 1: was jealous because her abilities to do things like astral
Speaker 1: projection and stuff like that were superior to Moynas and
Speaker 1: so she just didn't really like it like her, And
Speaker 1: so she succeeded in getting her expelled from the Order,
Speaker 1: and Dion went on and joined some other cults and
Speaker 1: you know, did pretty well with them and remained friends
Speaker 1: with Netta for an area. Anyway, I'll talk about Moyna
Speaker 1: and Dion later. So back to Netta. I haven't talked
Speaker 1: about Netta much at all so far. We talked about
Speaker 1: her for about a minute and a half and giving
Speaker 1: a travelog and a history of this alpha and it's
Speaker 1: all back story. It's very important stuff. It really pays. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Her full name was Nora Emily Aditha Fnario. Her nickname
Speaker 1: was Netta, and I don't know Nora's nice. I don't
Speaker 1: know about all four names. So she headed to the island,
Speaker 1: and she, upon landing, found lodging with a lady called
Speaker 1: Mrs McCray. And I had not been able to definitively
Speaker 1: establish what Mrs mcgray's full name is, but that's okay,
Speaker 1: we don't need to know. She was Mrs McGray. I
Speaker 1: seem a kindly old lady. Apparently they became friends at
Speaker 1: Netta spent her day's wandering around the island and spent
Speaker 1: her nights doing supernatural stuff like trances, astral projection, stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So she spent some of her days sleeping.
Speaker 1: Probably did a little sleeping too. She also believed that
Speaker 1: she could heal people with their psychic hours, and actually
Speaker 1: sent a letter to her housekeeper in London. So she
Speaker 1: still had her digs back in London, and she had
Speaker 1: been in communication, but she in this letter she said
Speaker 1: she wouldn't be sending any letters for a while because
Speaker 1: she quote had a terrible case of healing unquote to
Speaker 1: work on. I don't nobody knows what that means. It's
Speaker 1: a little mysterious that she apparently was either healing herself
Speaker 1: or healing somebody else. And it's a weird phrase. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not phrase. I think Netta was an odd person.
Speaker 1: I think I generally feel though, that I can get
Speaker 1: into the minds of people in this kind of you know,
Speaker 1: new age. I've been there, right, Like we've all kind
Speaker 1: of had that phase where we go through and we're like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: projection and a tarot cards and all that stuff. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys did I went through that phase.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it too seriously. I read what's his name,
Speaker 1: don Juan, Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the the guy who
Speaker 1: wrote these books about how he went out to this
Speaker 1: guy's yeah, and it was like Carlos Castanana. Yeah, Carlos Castanada,
Speaker 1: who it turns out, by the way, I was I
Speaker 1: was going to do a little bit about Carlos Castanado
Speaker 1: because he's an interesting guy of himself, because he was
Speaker 1: the guy I really got into his books when I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, eight nineteen years Yeah, that's exactly
Speaker 1: what I did. Yeah, yeah, and you get into this
Speaker 1: stuff and it turns out the guy was. The guy
Speaker 1: was actually very very manipulative and ran a little cult
Speaker 1: with a lot of little acolytes and stuff. The guy was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the guy was, and he was a massive fraud. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and like a drug addict and and like all of that. Notwithstanding,
Speaker 1: like you know, we've all kind of been through that phase.
Speaker 1: Maybe Steve, I guess hasn't been. But I generally feel
Speaker 1: like I can get into this kind of like mindset,
Speaker 1: like I can at least understand it a little bit.
Speaker 1: But you know, the what is it a terrible case
Speaker 1: of healing like that. She was like a little out
Speaker 1: of my realm of being able to understand what's going
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah, she's so. Nedda was either very gifted
Speaker 1: in the psychic manner or she was a bit unbalanced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be, but she is. It's it's really kind
Speaker 1: of hard to say. It's kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: a head scratcher, but apparently her friend Dion believed that
Speaker 1: she was psychically well, psychically gifted, very gifted in it.
Speaker 1: She also she also told her landlady Mrs McGray that
Speaker 1: she sometimes went in to trances and said it at
Speaker 1: one time she had gone into a trance that lasted
Speaker 1: for a week. What I'm sharing, Mrs McGray found a
Speaker 1: little weird, but she she told Mrs McGray that she
Speaker 1: shouldn't worry if if she wanted to a trance, and
Speaker 1: she shouldn't call a doctor, she should just let it pass.
Speaker 1: But she apparently never wanted any major trances while she
Speaker 1: was staying there with Mrs McRae. On the morning of
Speaker 1: November seventeenth, which was a Sunday, Uh, Nedda started packing
Speaker 1: her luggage frantically. When Mrs McGray found her, she told
Speaker 1: Mrs McGray that she needed to return to London right
Speaker 1: away because several in viduals, she said, we're attacking her telepathically.
Speaker 1: This has been Gray was a little skeptical about this obviously, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but and then but but then she did notice something odd,
Speaker 1: which is that she and again you don't know if
Speaker 1: this was inserted into the legend after the fact or what.
Speaker 1: Supposedly though, she noticed that Neda's shiny silver jewelry had
Speaker 1: basically tarnished black like overnight. And now some people, some
Speaker 1: people have metabolisms and skin discretions such that they do
Speaker 1: actually tarnish silver, and that well, yeah, it does happen.
Speaker 1: Doesn't happen overnight? I cannot think of because I looked
Speaker 1: this up to try and find out what causes that,
Speaker 1: and it's something Casa doses and I can't think of
Speaker 1: what it is, but it is. It's acidic, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's acidic sweat basically. And I can tell you
Speaker 1: as somebody who has something at least a minor Kate,
Speaker 1: I don't know how long does it take to turn
Speaker 1: bright silver black. I don't think I've ever turned to black.
Speaker 1: I mean I always stopped wearing it. It might have
Speaker 1: been an exaggeration, you know. I'll wear like a sterling
Speaker 1: silver necklace or a ring or something like that fairly constantly,
Speaker 1: and it takes, you know, a month or two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really seriously tarnished. I think that maybe what happened
Speaker 1: here is that when she first met Netta fresh off
Speaker 1: the boat or silver was shiny and then and she
Speaker 1: just remembered it and being shiny, didn't remember it, didn't
Speaker 1: notice that much after that. You know, you're living in
Speaker 1: a kind of cold neighborhood. Yeah, under your shirt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a cold neighborhood. And it's like, yes, it probably
Speaker 1: didn't turn black. Ye, I didn't turn dark overnight, and
Speaker 1: it probably wasn't actually black. It was probably just darkened.
Speaker 1: It's very tarnish. Yeah, although you know, I've got to
Speaker 1: admit that silver does if you let it to get
Speaker 1: exposed to elements, it will eventually get black. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I found a quarter recently. I mean, this is this
Speaker 1: is a weird little little segue to it. But I
Speaker 1: was wandering on a beach and looked down and went, hey,
Speaker 1: that's not a rock and picked up what turned out
Speaker 1: to be a quarter from So it's pure silver, and
Speaker 1: it was pitch black because it had been in the
Speaker 1: water for a while and it had just continued to
Speaker 1: tarnish and tarnish and tarnish, and to the point that
Speaker 1: I had to rub on the front of the face
Speaker 1: with my finger for a minute to get the tarnish
Speaker 1: to go off enough to be able to read it,
Speaker 1: because it just it does happen, but it takes a
Speaker 1: while for things to turn that black. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it does not overnight. So it would either be a
Speaker 1: lie or super paranormal, right that everything turned black overnight.
Speaker 1: They don't know that it would be a lie. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a lie. I would call that a
Speaker 1: lapse in observation. Yeah, and she didn't. Necessarily, she might
Speaker 1: have said, you know, I noticed at that point that
Speaker 1: her silver Chris effects are on her neck and turn
Speaker 1: turned really dark. And it didn't say the word overnight.
Speaker 1: And then somebody else like sort of interpreted it that way.
Speaker 1: But as happens, things get inserted shocking. Yeah, so she
Speaker 1: and she might have said something. In the US, she
Speaker 1: was probably being questioned by the local authorities whoever they were,
Speaker 1: always said, did you notice anything odd about her appearance?
Speaker 1: She would have said, well, you know, I did notice
Speaker 1: that their silver cross it kind of turned dark. And
Speaker 1: in a very religious community, that would be if you're
Speaker 1: very strong, your faith and everything is based upon that,
Speaker 1: that would be the kind of observation you would think
Speaker 1: was important to bring forward, especially if she's doing these
Speaker 1: and I don't I'm not gonna sound like I'm ripping
Speaker 1: on her, but these kookie things at night that I
Speaker 1: don't understand. In other words, her trances up all night
Speaker 1: doing who knows what it's like. He's like, wow, that
Speaker 1: lady's really weird. She's yeah, I think there might be
Speaker 1: some devil's involved. I mean, I'm I'm obviously inferring a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. But with that statement, but you know,
Speaker 1: this could be where her mind was, which is would
Speaker 1: then prompt her to say, and her silver was extremely
Speaker 1: darkly tarnished. So anyway, so that's uh, let's let's go
Speaker 1: back to the story for a sec. So Netta, Netta
Speaker 1: was packing, packing hastily, as the story goes, and at
Speaker 1: that point Mrs Gray mentioned to her that, by the way,
Speaker 1: it's Sunday. You do realize that fairy doesn't run today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Neda was a little upset. But then apparently after a
Speaker 1: little bit of time by herself in the room, she
Speaker 1: came out and said that she changed her mind and
Speaker 1: she was going to stay on the island after all.
Speaker 1: Did I tell her that she was being psychically attacked?
Speaker 1: You know? So maybe she successfully beat back the attack
Speaker 1: she put up a shield ball. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little as best super readily. Well, Professor X
Speaker 1: does it all the time. Okay, Professor X is a mutant. Well,
Speaker 1: so okay, all right, you're right, bad bad analogy I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to all her x Men fans out there and friends.
Speaker 1: I apologize for waiting Nea and Professor X on the
Speaker 1: same page. How many how many of those movies that
Speaker 1: they made, by the way, it doesn't made like dozens
Speaker 1: were just back to the story, so she said she
Speaker 1: changed her mind, and then she left to go walking
Speaker 1: around what she liked to do a lot, and she
Speaker 1: never came back. So and shed in the evening. Right,
Speaker 1: she left in the afternoon, and then supposedly in late
Speaker 1: afternoon early evening. In some telling of the story, Mrs
Speaker 1: mcgraig got a little worried about her, and so they
Speaker 1: started the search then, and other tellings of the story,
Speaker 1: she wasn't really paying attention, but she wants to check
Speaker 1: her room in the morning, and she wasn't there, and
Speaker 1: that's when she got alarmed and searched in. The search began.
Speaker 1: Soy the Sunday night or Monday morning, the search began,
Speaker 1: and they scoured the island, and not till Tuesday did
Speaker 1: they find her body. Uh So, she was at the
Speaker 1: south end of the islands, not at the very south
Speaker 1: tip or anything like that, but towards the south end,
Speaker 1: wearing only a thin black cloak, which in late November
Speaker 1: made the local doctor who got to play the role
Speaker 1: of c. S I and this particular thing he decided
Speaker 1: to cause of death was exposure. Just as a question,
Speaker 1: was Mrs Gray able to say, yeah, that she left
Speaker 1: the house wearing that or well, that's one of the
Speaker 1: things I'm a little, a little kind of wondering about.
Speaker 1: There's no mention. Yeah, that's one of the one of
Speaker 1: the outsil mysteries here for me is that I'm assuming
Speaker 1: she left the house fully closed, sure, and then at
Speaker 1: some point decided to take it all off. Surely never
Speaker 1: found her clothes, right, Surely if Mrs McGray was saying, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: her silver jewelry had turnished, she would also be like, oh, also,
Speaker 1: she was naked except for a cloak. She walked out
Speaker 1: of her birth Yeah. Yeah, and she wasn't wearing her shoes.
Speaker 1: And certainly if she'd walked out, if you walked out
Speaker 1: wearing a cloak, then that might be passable because the
Speaker 1: cloak is closed. She can't see that she's naked if
Speaker 1: it was a thin cloak, as long as her headlights
Speaker 1: aren't on. But she was also found barefoot, so she
Speaker 1: walked out wearing a cloak but barefoot. That would have
Speaker 1: raised a few eyebrows. So I'm assuming she went out
Speaker 1: fully closed and decided to to take it all off
Speaker 1: at some point later on, but her clothes in her shoes.
Speaker 1: But there's there's also the possibility that she did leave
Speaker 1: in just that, just the cloak, and that Mr Mrs
Speaker 1: mccraig didn't actually see her leave. But let's say just
Speaker 1: heard the front door closed, she said, oh, I'm going
Speaker 1: out by yeah, and shut the door and okay, see
Speaker 1: you later whatever. And I mean, that's that's a possibility,
Speaker 1: because that's the weird thing is where where her clothes?
Speaker 1: That's what I've never been able to figure out. So well,
Speaker 1: let's just say she left without any of them on,
Speaker 1: but the cloak, that's consavable. Well, she buried him somewhere.
Speaker 1: They just got blown away by the wind. Yeah, you know, yeah?
Speaker 1: Is there I mean was that she was naked with
Speaker 1: their naked except for the cloak. She had some scratches
Speaker 1: on her on her body, and the soles of her
Speaker 1: feet were kind of chewed up, which would probably happen
Speaker 1: if you're walking her over rough ground your feet, but
Speaker 1: not not on your torso she was walking around the moors.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how heavy and sharp the brushes. The
Speaker 1: brush is up there as she's walking around naked, she
Speaker 1: could have gotten scratches on her body from just brush. So,
Speaker 1: by the way, I do want to point out that
Speaker 1: for anybody who's kind of questioning the cause of death,
Speaker 1: because the local doctor, he said said it was exposure, exposed,
Speaker 1: and he also said maybe a heart attack. But yeah,
Speaker 1: he also was not very skilled at his job and others.
Speaker 1: He was a local practitioner. He wasn't a mortician, he
Speaker 1: wasn't a detailed doctor. He was take this because he
Speaker 1: put the cause of death somewhere between ten o'clock on
Speaker 1: Sunday night to think nine am on Tuesday morning, yeah,
Speaker 1: before she was found. So I mean he's like he's
Speaker 1: just covering all of his basis. Might have been exposure,
Speaker 1: she might have had a heart attack, she died in
Speaker 1: this window. Yeah, there you go, Thank you very much. Essentially,
Speaker 1: what we're saying is that he gave as much information
Speaker 1: as anyone in this room could have given him. Exactly
Speaker 1: my point. I don't think that was was done well. No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I assume that this guy examined the
Speaker 1: body carefully, just looking for things like signs that she
Speaker 1: was by like clubbed or stabbed or anything like that,
Speaker 1: no signs of foul play. Any of us in this
Speaker 1: room would do the same thing, right, and then we
Speaker 1: would say, uh, yeah, I mean, this guy has probably
Speaker 1: seen more dead bodies than we have, so you probably
Speaker 1: had a somewhat better better odds of correctly guessing there. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not disaccounting his abilities as a doctor and his
Speaker 1: observations to make these kind of guesses, but it is
Speaker 1: very basic. Yeah, and he was obviously if she was
Speaker 1: killed by psychic attack, which will get into later, he
Speaker 1: could probably had no means to detect that. Yeah, and Joe,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I know. Okay, now let's jump into theory.
Speaker 1: Is our favorite part of the show. You guys have
Speaker 1: any theories, I do, but I'm gonna wait for you. Okay. Well,
Speaker 1: I was gonna throw a few out. One is that
Speaker 1: she was just out wandering, actually got lost, she got confused,
Speaker 1: hypothermia was setting in, and as we all know, sometimes
Speaker 1: when you have hypothermia, your brain doesn't not quite working right,
Speaker 1: just like when we were talking about the the Outlaw Pass,
Speaker 1: and so that whole thing. You think you're hot, little
Speaker 1: part of hypothermia. Yeah, yeah, so maybe she was a
Speaker 1: little bit confused and started taking off her clothes. And
Speaker 1: then of course there's a there's the question of that
Speaker 1: whole cross that's cut into the ground by the daggers
Speaker 1: and by the way, I wanted to ask about that.
Speaker 1: How big is this this cross that was carved in
Speaker 1: I could never find anything that said was it a
Speaker 1: one ft by two foot cross or an eight foot
Speaker 1: by six foot cross? Like I can get scale on
Speaker 1: this stage. I've never gotten in the scale on it either.
Speaker 1: I hear that it's a large cross, so I'm assuming
Speaker 1: it's it's like something like five or six feet something
Speaker 1: that was big enough for her to lay on. I
Speaker 1: had the impression that it was kind of like her
Speaker 1: body was like, you know, it was a symbolism, like
Speaker 1: of a crucifixion or similar to that. It was it
Speaker 1: was about the size of her. I got that impression too,
Speaker 1: But I've never seen anything that's either. But so we
Speaker 1: don't really know how we three independently and for the
Speaker 1: same thing. So perhaps that maybe the or perhaps we
Speaker 1: just go to the same place every time. My other
Speaker 1: question and this is why I ask about this is
Speaker 1: there's this talk about the dagger and the cross in
Speaker 1: the ground, but you never hear anything about the dirt
Speaker 1: that the soil or what would be cut up. You know,
Speaker 1: if I cut this cross in the ground, I, at
Speaker 1: least from my perspective, I would presume that I would
Speaker 1: cut it out and then I would roll on the
Speaker 1: saw or whatever. Top soil is interesting because I thought
Speaker 1: it was like just a like two lines. Oh see
Speaker 1: see what I heard that. I thought she would literally
Speaker 1: cut the growth off so it was bare dirt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you don't know how much what's an inch? Why
Speaker 1: anybody to choose to shovel that's trying to dig up
Speaker 1: any kind of plant life and half an inch an
Speaker 1: inch deep to try to expose bar dirt? That's not
Speaker 1: easy work, which might explain like this, this whole thing
Speaker 1: about cuts and scrapes. Although let's be fair, in Scotland
Speaker 1: it's either grass or moss, right, true, But where would
Speaker 1: that where I never heard anything about this this Let's
Speaker 1: just say my my direction was correct, well, that we
Speaker 1: never heard anything about a pile of soil or plant
Speaker 1: life that had been cast aside for her to lay
Speaker 1: in this exposed dirt, which is why I think I
Speaker 1: assumed that it was just like two lines right that
Speaker 1: like somebody had just done like the line drawing of
Speaker 1: a cross under it, just like literally just stabbing the
Speaker 1: earth and just gouging it. So it's an audible, a
Speaker 1: noticeable cut in the ground, but it's not open. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's also possible to move some turf to have a
Speaker 1: more well defined cross. And yeah, it sucked it aside
Speaker 1: and nobody, nobody really I thought it was worth to
Speaker 1: put into report or anything. Well, and and plus we
Speaker 1: don't know like weather conditions, like it's Scotland in November,
Speaker 1: it was probably raining. There's a lot of different stuff
Speaker 1: that was probably potentially going on there that could have
Speaker 1: gotten rid of all that soil anyway, So the cross
Speaker 1: is like a little bit of a mystery. But it see,
Speaker 1: it does appear that she cutted herself. And as far
Speaker 1: as the clothes go, you know, that's still almost still
Speaker 1: again if it's windy and might have been blown away.
Speaker 1: And again one of these things could be one of
Speaker 1: those little details. Maybe there was a little pile of
Speaker 1: her clothes right there and it just you know got
Speaker 1: lost over time. Because I remember this happened eighty five
Speaker 1: years ago, so that and it's an unsolved mystery, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the other we we often talked about
Speaker 1: this on the show that like these unsolved mysteries quote unquote,
Speaker 1: like the telling of them gets more and more fantastical
Speaker 1: at time goes on and details just like he cares
Speaker 1: about that, you know, we've got to get some blue
Speaker 1: lights in this. Yeah, and missing clothes and like she
Speaker 1: was naked and there were mysterious scratches on the body,
Speaker 1: and there was a dude standing right there. Yeah he
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't standing right there, he was lurking nearby. Hey yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this theory is that for some reason she was
Speaker 1: out there doing something she got lost and hypothermia, so
Speaker 1: just like walking around or whatever, and decided to shed
Speaker 1: some layers and maybe do a little later production or
Speaker 1: something like that. Or maybe she was doing some spell
Speaker 1: that would warm her body, or maybe maybe or maybe
Speaker 1: this was going to do a spell that would tell
Speaker 1: her the way home because she was lost, or sent
Speaker 1: her to London. Oh yeah, maybe that seems that gonna
Speaker 1: be kind of impossible to get lost in an island's
Speaker 1: only one mile wide. And four miles long. Well, again
Speaker 1: I go back to this whole like lack of understanding
Speaker 1: of the weather. You know, if it were gray and
Speaker 1: like super dark and windy, and if she was hypothermic
Speaker 1: and disoriented and she kind of you know, like awoke
Speaker 1: into her senses realized crap, like I'm lost and it's cold,
Speaker 1: and I don't know I'm naked for some reason, and
Speaker 1: it's it's also unnn fact that people don't are in
Speaker 1: almost incapable of walking in straight line. So you say
Speaker 1: that I want to walk there, I'm going. I know
Speaker 1: if I walk north, I will get to some place.
Speaker 1: But instead you walk in a circle. So whether it
Speaker 1: be a half mile or a uh yards circle, you
Speaker 1: continue to walk in a circle. Although to be fair,
Speaker 1: if you know the island is as small it is
Speaker 1: as it is, you just think, I mean at a
Speaker 1: like a fair brisk pace. I walk about a twenty
Speaker 1: minute mile, and most people kind of breast place, especially
Speaker 1: in those times. So if you just say, okay, well,
Speaker 1: the circumference of this is like basically four miles, right,
Speaker 1: So if I just like hug the coast, I will
Speaker 1: eventually get back to the village, get back. But if
Speaker 1: you're freezing cold. You don't want to take the four
Speaker 1: mile hike. You're going to try and take the half
Speaker 1: mile shortcut. Yeah, probably true. But but we I think
Speaker 1: we think we hypothermia pretty well. Another possibility is suicide. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe she just deliberately went out there and thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hypothermia as ways to go are It's not
Speaker 1: so bad compared to like say, being eaten by sharks
Speaker 1: or being burned alive or something like that. So maybe
Speaker 1: she wanted to commit suicide and maybe she figured, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll be buried on Iona and the most sacred of islands.
Speaker 1: She was all these Scottish kings and she was I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess even she had a dagger with her right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean it's even possible that she initially went
Speaker 1: out there thinking I'll just follow my dagger. I'll just
Speaker 1: follow my dagger, and then you know, like cowarded out
Speaker 1: of the last second. Mighty explain the scratches on her
Speaker 1: tour so too. I mean, she was trying to stab
Speaker 1: the tentative what do they call it? Those? Isn't the
Speaker 1: hesitat hesitation marks? Yeah, where she's she's trying, Well, I
Speaker 1: just do a little one hurt. What do you hear
Speaker 1: these stories about Japanese people committing Harry Carey, you know,
Speaker 1: stabbing yourself to death with a sword. It's like, how
Speaker 1: do you do that? You have to be really why
Speaker 1: they fall on culturally ingrain I just but that's but
Speaker 1: you know, it's also why they they the culture says
Speaker 1: you fall on your sword because once you're starting to
Speaker 1: pitch forward, you can't twist aside fast enough. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it. Actually, you know, push
Speaker 1: the sword into yourself. Now you keep get so suicide
Speaker 1: is a possibility. Now the possibility is psychic attacks. She
Speaker 1: was done in by a psychic attack. Who yeah, well
Speaker 1: the sinister Mouena Mouena Matters, Yeah, sinister, Yeah, her her
Speaker 1: friend the unfortunately that's right because she has friends with
Speaker 1: friends with Dion and uh shee accused Moena Matters of
Speaker 1: murder Netta. Well, I suppose that. I mean again, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know why Netta decided, oh I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to this far reaching island that has some psychic powers.
Speaker 1: But it might be to get away. It maybe to
Speaker 1: like flee. It might have been Yeah, it could have
Speaker 1: been do you have the problem with the Way to
Speaker 1: Matters series that she died the year before, thank you,
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be like the jerk that
Speaker 1: poopoo's this whole theory, but this one is the hardest
Speaker 1: one for me to even try because it never went
Speaker 1: you never went through Carlos Custodager, I didn't maybe if
Speaker 1: she could reach beyond the grave, maybe, But then if
Speaker 1: that's the case, I mean, actually Moyenna when of Matters,
Speaker 1: actually had more reason to psychically attack the unfortune yeah
Speaker 1: than just attack although I don't know how close they were.
Speaker 1: If like, it would have been worse for Dion to
Speaker 1: like live with the haunting nous of like her friend's
Speaker 1: mysterious death. Maybe I don't know why I want to
Speaker 1: wait until after she died to do with listen, more
Speaker 1: psychic powers. You get more psychic powers after you die. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, that's so that's get that maybe a possibility
Speaker 1: next theory, she was mentally disturbed and she just like
Speaker 1: I thought, wandering around naked in late November would would
Speaker 1: be a fun idea. I gotta be honest. I have
Speaker 1: a couple of friends that I worry about this with
Speaker 1: that are still like in there somehow, you know, they're
Speaker 1: almost thirties somehow in there, like Carlos castanea like weird
Speaker 1: psychic attack phase where they you know, every once in
Speaker 1: a while I get a text from them that's like
Speaker 1: being attacked psychically by blah blah blah, and I'm like, wow, really,
Speaker 1: you actually, like you truly believe that it's not like
Speaker 1: an attention thing. And I worry sometimes that like wow,
Speaker 1: maybe that's like you just are. So this is this
Speaker 1: is a this is very but this theory is kind
Speaker 1: of related to the first one. Then, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: an offshot of the first series. Good a better description
Speaker 1: of the first one, right, yeah, yeah, Well the first
Speaker 1: theory is that she was not not mentally to range
Speaker 1: so much, but the hypothermia cause it was just like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: I see this thing o. The cause in this case
Speaker 1: is mental mental illness bringing about I'm clothing herself and
Speaker 1: getting a hypothermia. So so I yeah, for me, this
Speaker 1: theory was for something kind of helps inform theory one, right,
Speaker 1: It gives a good reason behind why somebody might be
Speaker 1: out there. But there's there there are indications in the
Speaker 1: story that this could be right. Her whole. I've got
Speaker 1: to get off this island. I gotta pack everything now,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I'm okay, don't worry about it now,
Speaker 1: I'm fine. Yeah. Are you sure you're fine? You were
Speaker 1: just freaking up? No, I'm fine, It's totally okay. She
Speaker 1: didn't say whether the Netta puts some tinfoil over her
Speaker 1: head that might have saw off the psychic attacks. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: mental disturbance caused her to get naked and die hypothermia. Okay,
Speaker 1: next hearing. Maybe she was wanted to do some ritual
Speaker 1: and the ritual required her to be naked or nearly
Speaker 1: naked in order to do that, and she at this
Speaker 1: time was just a little bit too mentally disturbed to
Speaker 1: understand what a bad idea this was doing it, this
Speaker 1: was exactly Uh So, maybe she decided that she was
Speaker 1: going to do a little astral projection, although I had
Speaker 1: no I know nothing about astro projection. I don't think
Speaker 1: you need to be naked to do it. But she
Speaker 1: decided to cut the cross, lay down, do some astro projection,
Speaker 1: and her consciousness went out and wanted the universe for
Speaker 1: a while, and then when it came back and it
Speaker 1: got home, well, she had expired from hypothermia, So maybe
Speaker 1: she was doing astral projection, I mean as possible, right,
Speaker 1: I Mean, they're like so many things to build on this,
Speaker 1: right is. But like if she already kind of thought
Speaker 1: that was a thing, she could have been drunk or
Speaker 1: like on drugs enough to really believe that and think, well,
Speaker 1: I have to be naked to do this. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna lay down for a minute while I do this,
Speaker 1: because you know, you don't have to be laying down
Speaker 1: to do astral projection, but like maybe you're inebriated and
Speaker 1: being laying down feels better, right, Um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And also it wasn't that it wasn't the founder of
Speaker 1: um Alpha Omega. He had some sexual scandal happened and
Speaker 1: that's why he found it Alpha and Omega. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: the hermetic Order of the New Dawn or whatever. So
Speaker 1: it's totally possible. I know that it was definitely a
Speaker 1: thing in a lot of those kind of alternate psychic
Speaker 1: crazy orders in the twenties that like there was a
Speaker 1: lot of sexual stuff that went with that. So I
Speaker 1: guess it is certainly possible that she there was a
Speaker 1: ritual that she was trying to perform or whatever it
Speaker 1: involved that sexual component, you know. I mean, you think
Speaker 1: about it, if you're a cult leader and you're gonna
Speaker 1: like try to attract attractive female followers into your whole thing,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna you're gonna teach them all these rituals.
Speaker 1: They said, by the way, this requires you to be
Speaker 1: completely naked. Like that is one of the most pervasive
Speaker 1: like just strands and all of the cults that I've
Speaker 1: ever read about is that, you know, it's like almost
Speaker 1: always founded by like some thirty or above guy who's
Speaker 1: always like, oh, yeah, by the way, I get all
Speaker 1: these fifteen year old wives. Yeah, we're gonna have a
Speaker 1: lot of sex. It's just part of the religion. It's cool.
Speaker 1: It's disturbing because they're they're playing off of people who
Speaker 1: are very naive, yeah, or or mentally whatever. The branch
Speaker 1: Davidians don in Waco, you know, the Jim Karash was
Speaker 1: their cult leader, and that was one of the things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you all come and live in the compound and I
Speaker 1: get to have sex with your wives, And it's like
Speaker 1: what kind of guy would do that? That was the
Speaker 1: thing we just talked about the cult last week with
Speaker 1: the Monster with twenty one faces. The cults in Japan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, and I know that he it was
Speaker 1: like mostly him in the followed him and he was
Speaker 1: having sex with all of them. I want to be
Speaker 1: a cult leader, seriously, I mean, not the big part
Speaker 1: of a lot of cults. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: Alpha at Omega was that kind of cult or not,
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I'm not willing to discount the
Speaker 1: fact that like that could potentially be quote you know,
Speaker 1: air quote part of that ritual. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: that they were. There's not enough I couldn't find enough
Speaker 1: available information about these guys. Shocking. Yeah, I know it
Speaker 1: appears that they took the medic the medic physical aspects
Speaker 1: of things more seriously than a lot of these these
Speaker 1: really weird little cults like the Branch Davidians or Jones,
Speaker 1: him Jones, those guys. Yeah, but I can't say what
Speaker 1: they are up to. Nobody knows, right because that's part
Speaker 1: of it. But certainly enough, if you're if you're gonna
Speaker 1: do a ritual that doesn't hurt to be naked, and
Speaker 1: so if you're the if you're the cult leader, you're
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna say, you know, you're gonna say, like, hey,
Speaker 1: by the way, this you're required to be naked to
Speaker 1: do this to this ritual, be three year old young
Speaker 1: woman who's super attractive. Again, it's required for some very
Speaker 1: base reasons why that happens. And there it is very disturbing,
Speaker 1: and I think I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna move us away from this because I'm
Speaker 1: really actually I'm a little uncomfortable continuing to repeat this conversation.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about some of your theories. Yeah, actually
Speaker 1: have two theories that I think both playoff of the
Speaker 1: last theory that you talked about. No, not no UFOs alright,
Speaker 1: sobot no, no Scottish yetti. But I have I have
Speaker 1: two theories here, and this is just based off of
Speaker 1: things that I read Ninford and then a little bit
Speaker 1: of random research that I did. My first my first
Speaker 1: thought is that I think you touched upon this a
Speaker 1: little bit, is well, what if she was Devin, you
Speaker 1: said this one if she's a little high. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: at the time that she came the island, and I
Speaker 1: was reading the accounts about now, they were saying that
Speaker 1: she really looked terrible kind of sunken eyes, kind of
Speaker 1: a bad pallor about her. And we've talked about the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, maybe she's got that the condition
Speaker 1: where she's oxidizing the silver a lot, so she could
Speaker 1: have had what was equated to some kind of internal
Speaker 1: oregan disorder. Well, at that time, there were a lot
Speaker 1: of folklore about using heather plants to make teas and
Speaker 1: polstices from to heal you. It's never been supported anywhere.
Speaker 1: In other words, I've done I've looked at it, and
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, Nick could maybe do something, but we
Speaker 1: can't scientifically prove that it does a damn thing for you.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. For years and years and years
Speaker 1: on these islands, people used to make beer out of heather,
Speaker 1: and they used to only use the fresh new growth
Speaker 1: tips of the plant because they didn't have hops. That's
Speaker 1: what they used to make the fermentation from. But it
Speaker 1: was common knowledge that you didn't go into the older
Speaker 1: growth because I guess what was commonplace in the older
Speaker 1: growth of those plants that the bread mole that we
Speaker 1: talked about. So I could see where she is using
Speaker 1: this stuff to try to make yourself feel better, and
Speaker 1: she gets some of it. I feel, okay, I feel,
Speaker 1: And then she gets a bad batch and she goes
Speaker 1: on a bender, not knowing what's going on. And now
Speaker 1: she's off, you know, in a in an altered state,
Speaker 1: And that would explain she's break from reality basically just
Speaker 1: chewing on plants out there. Well, if she made a
Speaker 1: pulsterice out of it, which puls this requires heating it up,
Speaker 1: that would kill it. So I guess she was making
Speaker 1: a t some kind of talk police that you put
Speaker 1: on your body, right right, because you gotta kind of
Speaker 1: make it into a pace, so you gotta heat it
Speaker 1: up and break it down. But if you're making it
Speaker 1: as a t and you're just dipping it in water,
Speaker 1: it's some of it's gonna survive. So now you're in
Speaker 1: an altered state. You have a break from reality, and
Speaker 1: off you go. And so let's say the first thing
Speaker 1: in the morning, she makes some of that tea, and
Speaker 1: she's having a bit of a trip, and that's why
Speaker 1: she wants to get off the island. And then she
Speaker 1: has some more and she quote unquote evens out and
Speaker 1: then has more of that bad badge, and now she's
Speaker 1: gone on a really bad trip. And suddenly she is
Speaker 1: out there. Man, that's possible. You would think that Mrs
Speaker 1: McRae and would I would have noticed her making tea
Speaker 1: from this stuff and warned her about the possibilities of
Speaker 1: You would think maybe she wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe
Speaker 1: she wasn't in the kitchen and so she wasn't paying attention.
Speaker 1: Uh So, I mean that could explain why she would
Speaker 1: have gone out there and and died from exposure, because
Speaker 1: she is just out, just completely passes out. It's also
Speaker 1: possible that the other thing that I think could have
Speaker 1: happened is as agitated. Is I got the impression that
Speaker 1: she was that day and her again her bad pallor
Speaker 1: and her physical condition. I mean, they talked about the
Speaker 1: fact that she couldn't walk more than a couple hundred
Speaker 1: yards at a time before she had to stop and
Speaker 1: come back to the house. She couldn't go far afield,
Speaker 1: which leads me to wonder if she had some kind
Speaker 1: of condition. I wouldn't say, like congestive heart failure, but
Speaker 1: she might have been in a situation where she was
Speaker 1: getting the beginnings of a stroke. So she's got you know,
Speaker 1: what is it when you've got the vein that bursts
Speaker 1: in your brain. I can't think of and embolism. She's
Speaker 1: got an embolism that's buildings. So she she's losing her energy,
Speaker 1: and then she has a small stroke. She wigs out.
Speaker 1: That's why she wants to leave because she's gone into
Speaker 1: an altered state again, and then kind of calms down,
Speaker 1: goes out into the into the landscape, and then has
Speaker 1: the major stroke. I mean, if we're having I mean,
Speaker 1: if we're going to go that route, you know, things
Speaker 1: like a cute kidney failure or like appendicitis, those things
Speaker 1: will all render those kind of like san and if
Speaker 1: you're in that kind of I guess culture of thinking,
Speaker 1: a psychic attack could be causing those things right where
Speaker 1: you're like nauseous and you've got a headache, tired, and
Speaker 1: then you you're able to just kind of calm yourself
Speaker 1: down because you can, you know, people can talk themselves
Speaker 1: down from things like that. You say, okay, okay, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go for a walk. That will make
Speaker 1: me feel better. You know, for whatever reason, have this break.
Speaker 1: Take your clothes off because you've got a fever maybe
Speaker 1: or whatever. It could be so many different year old
Speaker 1: again wanted to run in the sea. And you would
Speaker 1: assume that any I mean even like a doctor, just
Speaker 1: like a family doctor, should be able to say it
Speaker 1: was some kind of failure or but but that's that's
Speaker 1: that's is basing it upon that he was able to
Speaker 1: examine her when she was alive, which she may never
Speaker 1: have gone to this guy on the island. It's uh,
Speaker 1: it's no, there's not a definitive arrival day. So she
Speaker 1: supposedly arrived there somewhere in July or August. So let's
Speaker 1: let's say she arrived there at the first day of August.
Speaker 1: So it takes to work up to go into a doctor.
Speaker 1: Almost she had no particular reason that I know of
Speaker 1: to go see the doctor to begin with. So he
Speaker 1: may not have had a living symptom to base it
Speaker 1: upon for whatever malady that it might have beens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't. He wasn't set up to do the
Speaker 1: whole you know, like the autopsy and cut her open
Speaker 1: and look at her look at her inergery, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: do toxicology and see if maybe she had some sort
Speaker 1: of poisoning like you're talking about going on. She he
Speaker 1: wasn't set up for that okay, so so much for
Speaker 1: that theory. Theories good, so Devon, well he really just
Speaker 1: kind of disconnected that one and ch those. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what I was gonna say, So let's go to Devon.
Speaker 1: I don't. I guess I don't really have any theory.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm still like just so fresh
Speaker 1: out of my like again, we've been calling it the
Speaker 1: Carlos Castel in a phase, right, I can't with certainties
Speaker 1: say any of these are wrong. Maybe she was actually
Speaker 1: being psychically attacked. Probably not. I kind of doubt that.
Speaker 1: I super doubt that. But again, I'm not so far
Speaker 1: out of that phase where I can't say it's not
Speaker 1: it's not that bizarre. There was somebody just recently, I
Speaker 1: think it was up around Mountain Rainier. Somebody took some
Speaker 1: LSD some young woman and took off all of her
Speaker 1: clothes and just headed out into the woods. It had
Speaker 1: bad It happens all the time. There's so many different rs.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in the twenties, right, so we've
Speaker 1: got like all this like bad heroin going around like
Speaker 1: and there, and these drugs have existed for so long.
Speaker 1: It's a very curious, mysterious death that I have no
Speaker 1: good theories on. I honestly am just happy to say
Speaker 1: I don't understand it, and it's really weird. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't get it either, you know, like this this,
Speaker 1: you know, all of none of our theories really addressed
Speaker 1: the like cross situation. You know, they say, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, then maybe she went nuts and did that, right,
Speaker 1: there's no good for that. None of them really truly
Speaker 1: addressed the fact that maybe there was a guy like lurking, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's just weird. Yeah, And I really
Speaker 1: discounted the guy lurking in the black cloak because if
Speaker 1: you murder somebody or somewhere how involved in her death,
Speaker 1: and you sort of learn just lurk for two days,
Speaker 1: days for days until why are you going to Why
Speaker 1: don't you go lurk somewhere else? I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I generally feel like, you know, there there's in my
Speaker 1: like storybook version, there's like something missing here right where
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, also, she happened to have a
Speaker 1: lover on the island, that's why she was there, and
Speaker 1: would you would think that would eventually somehow, but it
Speaker 1: never did. So I don't have a good feeling about this.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite theory, Well, we can make up another one.
Speaker 1: Let's say she was a drug addict and she want
Speaker 1: there to try to get away from her dealer, her dealer,
Speaker 1: and then at some point she's going to see some
Speaker 1: some major or might might it might be that she
Speaker 1: established a connection on the island just she happens since
Speaker 1: and then was back back in the throws of addiction.
Speaker 1: And then one day realizes that she she drops her
Speaker 1: Violet Loud nem or whatever it is, and breaks in
Speaker 1: and realize, I'm fresh out, you know, and I've got
Speaker 1: to go to London and score some more. And maybe
Speaker 1: why don't may just be smirched the name of I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know is out there. It's totally out there.
Speaker 1: But then she then she thinks about it. She can't
Speaker 1: leave anyway, The fairy doesn't go on Sundays, and then
Speaker 1: she thinks about and thinks, you know, I really need
Speaker 1: to kick this crap instead of doing that. But then
Speaker 1: she later on decides, you know what, this just really
Speaker 1: sucks and I hate my life. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: out and take my clothes off and die. So maybe
Speaker 1: that's thank you happy there is no reason to believe that.
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't want to be smersed the
Speaker 1: name of netaporn areo any more theories none whatssoever. So
Speaker 1: that's the end of the theories. If you have theories
Speaker 1: of your own, you can always send us an email
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. You can,
Speaker 1: of course go to our website, which is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Uh. If you're looking to download our shows,
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Speaker 1: We are on Facebook, so find us, like us, leave
Speaker 1: some comments. We like that. All right, So concludes another
Speaker 1: successful mystery solving it Thinking Sideways the Podcast. So so well, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we didn't solve it exactly. We probably we probably, we
Speaker 1: probably muddied the water of stuff. But yeah, yeah yeah
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes we we know, solve it well rarely, but
Speaker 1: you know, this time, I don't think we quite Either
Speaker 1: we solve it or we ruin it. Yeah, we ruined it. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I think we bumped the lurking guy in the black cloak. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think we pretty much by just ignoring the fact
Speaker 1: that he was the blue lights. We just ignored the
Speaker 1: blue lights. We paid attention to the blue did we, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we said, oh yeah, more blue lights. They're always showing
Speaker 1: up in these things. Have you noticed that? So that's
Speaker 1: it for this week, folks. I hope you enjoyed the
Speaker 1: episode and be sure to tune in next week for
Speaker 1: another exciting unsolved mystery here at Thinking Sideways. Bye bye,
Speaker 1: bye guys, Bye