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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of

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Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too well. Hold there,

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Speaker 1: Welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and de Yeah. So okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna jump into another unsolved mystery. This we wait,

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Speaker 1: we cover unsolved mysteries. I thought this was a cooking show. Yeah. Tonight,

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Speaker 1: on Thinking Sideways, the podcast we discover why Steve can't

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Speaker 1: remember anything from his life. I was drapped on my

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Speaker 1: head a lot as a baby. For me, it's just

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Speaker 1: the booze and lack of sleep. What are we talking

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Speaker 1: about today? Today we are going to talk about the death,

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Speaker 1: the mysterious death of Netta for Narreo. So they're looking

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Speaker 1: at a picture of a right here. This is what

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Speaker 1: you see on most of the web page is a

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Speaker 1: deal with this little mystery. Except that's not actually a

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Speaker 1: picture of her. That's a picture of somebody named Mona Mathers,

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Speaker 1: who figures kind of in this story a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But it's not Netta. It's not Netta now now it's Moena.

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Speaker 1: Do we have a picture of Netta? No, I've not

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Speaker 1: been able to. I thought that that was Netta for

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Speaker 1: the longest time checking it out, but now it turns

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Speaker 1: out that's Moina Mathers. So we're talking about Netta but not.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I just wanted to let people know that

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Speaker 1: if you go check this out in the web and

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Speaker 1: you see this picture of this kind of good looking

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Speaker 1: woman with kind of wild she looks crazy. She's got

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Speaker 1: a bird's nest hair do. Yeah yeah, but she's still

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Speaker 1: she's still you kind of good looking, you know, but

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Speaker 1: spite the hair, yeah, despite the crazy hair. Well, So anyway,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about Netta. Okay, so just a quick brief

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Speaker 1: intro summary here. In late summer nine, Netta four an

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Speaker 1: area thuring three years old, resident of London, England, left

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Speaker 1: London and traveled to the island of Iona and probably

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Speaker 1: mispronouncing that I think it's Iona, might be Ilana. I

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Speaker 1: think it's you know, it's in the Scottish Hebrides. It's

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Speaker 1: um anyway, it's it's one of those little bitty tiny

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Speaker 1: islands out there that's got a quint little village and

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Speaker 1: not much else. So anyway, yeah, a lot to that.

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Speaker 1: She was planning an extended stay there. Uh. In late

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Speaker 1: November the same year, she went missing. After two days search,

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Speaker 1: her naked body was discovered on top of a quote

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Speaker 1: very amount unquote because I'll talk about this a little later,

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Speaker 1: but everybody believed that this island was like full of

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Speaker 1: ghosts and fairies and stuff like that. Well, it was

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Speaker 1: the twenties and you know Scotland. We've talked about this before.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she had she or somebody most likely her,

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Speaker 1: had cut a large cross in the turf using a dagger,

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Speaker 1: which was found near near her body, and laid down

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Speaker 1: on the dagger. She was not technically completely naked. She

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Speaker 1: had a very thin black cloak on her, but that

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Speaker 1: was it. And this is late November in the Scottish Hebrides,

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Speaker 1: so obviously it must have and really cold. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Some accounts say that she was clutching some papers in

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Speaker 1: her hand, one of her hands letters of a mysterious

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Speaker 1: nature and but other accounts say that those letters were

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Speaker 1: found in your luggage back in her room. She was

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Speaker 1: staying with this lady named Mrs McMurray McRae. Uh. Some

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Speaker 1: say that blue lights were seeing in the vicinity of

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Speaker 1: her body, but of course there's more than more often

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Speaker 1: than not, there's blue lights in these mysteries. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know. And a strange man was supposedly

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Speaker 1: lurking nearby wearing a black cloak. Yeah stalker. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: the twins obviously. Yeah, maybe he was wearing her black cloak. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Any way, back to the start, So why didn't you

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Speaker 1: go to Iona. Iona's a very tiny island. It's about

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Speaker 1: a mile wide, about four miles long. You get to

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Speaker 1: it by taking a ferry from the Isle of Mole,

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Speaker 1: which is to the east of it. You get to

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Speaker 1: the Isle of Mole by taking a ferry to there.

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Speaker 1: Not an easy place I assume for this little journey.

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Speaker 1: She probably had to take like a long train ride

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Speaker 1: and maybe then uh you know, a couple of ferry

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Speaker 1: rides at the like from London. It would have been

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Speaker 1: from London to the coast, right, yeah, and then on

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Speaker 1: a ferry and then likely another train across the island

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Speaker 1: or the bus or a car or something. And is

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Speaker 1: probably not a whole lot of car traffics. Probably most

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Speaker 1: of the community's done via train. Yeah yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: that just doesn't sound like a quick and easy afternoon

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Speaker 1: johned Now, not someplace you go to the week go

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Speaker 1: for just the weekend or you just happen to be

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Speaker 1: at if you just happened to live in the Isle

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Speaker 1: of mold That it's a quick, easy, happy John from

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Speaker 1: London one of the ways. Anyway. The population that the

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Speaker 1: latest census count of the is a hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: seven people. I assume it was fewer people back in

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Speaker 1: those days. The only town is called again I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: for the mispronunciation, but it's called bail Moore, but the

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Speaker 1: locals call it the village, Yeah, the village. The island

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Speaker 1: is also home to the Bay at the back of

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Speaker 1: the ocean, which is an oddly named bay for such

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Speaker 1: a backwater ionas has got a really interesting history. It's

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Speaker 1: and it actually the earliest structure found on the island

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Speaker 1: was constructed they guess about a hundred years previous to

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Speaker 1: Christ and it was what they call an iron age

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Speaker 1: hilltop fort was it was probably something that mainly was

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Speaker 1: like earthen earthen ramparts kind of thing, probably not as serious,

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Speaker 1: but but so it's been inhabited for a long time.

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Speaker 1: But in five sixty three a d A monk named Colomba,

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Speaker 1: who later became sync Colomba, founded a monastery there. He

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Speaker 1: had been exiled to the island for various reasons that

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Speaker 1: I don't really need to get into, but if you

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Speaker 1: want to hear more about it, I can. I can

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Speaker 1: point you towards some links. And anyway, so he and

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Speaker 1: about a dozen other monks founded this monastery, and this

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Speaker 1: monastery turn as it turned out, would play a crucial

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Speaker 1: role in converting most of the UK to Christianity, and

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Speaker 1: the island became a center of a very important monastic system,

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Speaker 1: and it would also be a major center of learning.

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Speaker 1: And it's believed, although nobody knows for sure that the

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Speaker 1: Book of Kells was created there, or maybe at least

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Speaker 1: part of it was created there. They're not sure if

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Speaker 1: the Book of Kells was actually created in just one

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Speaker 1: place or in a number of places and assembled. They're

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Speaker 1: not refreshed my memory. What is the Book of Kells again?

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Speaker 1: Look Atkels is a very very heavily illuminated a series

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Speaker 1: of the Gospels. It's not all of the New Testament,

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Speaker 1: but but some of it, and very elaborately illustrated. And

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Speaker 1: it came out of this region. Yeah, and so they're

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Speaker 1: not sure if it came out purely out of Iona

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Speaker 1: or not out of iona or just some pages if

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Speaker 1: it came out of this place. They don't really know

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Speaker 1: for sure it's it's but it's a very well known

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Speaker 1: historic Scottish book of the Bible. About yeah, illuminated version.

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Speaker 1: Do I'm sorry, do we need to tell people what

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Speaker 1: illuminated means? And so if you don't know what illuminated

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Speaker 1: text is, it just means that it's been very elaborately

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Speaker 1: like embroidered and illustrated. You know, you see a lot

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Speaker 1: in like Italian kind of or like you know the yeah,

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Speaker 1: actually Italian Catholic stuff, right, it's the like gold filigree

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Speaker 1: with like drawings along the sides and like with the

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Speaker 1: huge starting letters and drop caps or what they're called, yes,

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Speaker 1: and the I think these are the kind of books

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Speaker 1: where it would take let's just I'm making up a number,

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Speaker 1: but let's just say five months a month to make

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Speaker 1: all of the illustrations for one pain and they were

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Speaker 1: actually gold leafed and all of it and you had

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Speaker 1: to paint the gold on oh yeah, yeah no. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what one of those are, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if if you just haven't seen one before, check they're

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Speaker 1: fantastic to to think that somebody sat there with an

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Speaker 1: ink pen and a brush to paint all that color

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Speaker 1: so painstakingly, and then to brush on liquid gold. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the amazing part. Diana was also a great place

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Speaker 1: to be for a while. It was the place to

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Speaker 1: be if you were royalty and you were dead, you

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Speaker 1: were looking for a place. Yeah. Apparently as of the

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Speaker 1: year fifty nine, they were sixty kings buried on the

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Speaker 1: island there because were they buried or interred, They were

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Speaker 1: interred and and and actually interred can me either being

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Speaker 1: buried or being put in a like a corrupt or

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Speaker 1: male often royalty. I don't know, it's my my impression

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Speaker 1: that often royalty is actually like interred in a masolem

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Speaker 1: or Yeah. Well, sometimes they would do the burial mound

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Speaker 1: where they would erect you know, they put everything in,

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Speaker 1: They give you a little stone structure, and then they

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Speaker 1: would cover that in the big burial mounds. So I

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Speaker 1: think that's why it's kind of a gray area. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think in this case they were buried in the

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Speaker 1: soil though, because the reason that they were buried there

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Speaker 1: is there was a belief that the soil of the

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Speaker 1: island was holy and that it would remove your sins

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Speaker 1: and cleansy so that you could enter heaven more cleanly.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting. Yeah, and if your royalty and you spent

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Speaker 1: your entire life like in a scheming and you know,

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Speaker 1: murdering your opponents in your competition, then you probably want

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Speaker 1: a little soul clansy before you enter heaven. But anyway, yes,

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Speaker 1: there were forty eight Scottish kings ain't Norwegian kings and

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Speaker 1: four Irish kings buried there as of the year fifteen

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Speaker 1: forty nine. And it's even mentioned in Shakespeare's Macbeth tragedy. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, there's a there's a reference to it in there,

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Speaker 1: and it's the references about Duncan's body He's carried to

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Speaker 1: columb Kill and colm Kill means Columbus Island, which is

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Speaker 1: another word for Eona carried to colm Kill, the sacred

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Speaker 1: storehouse of his predecessors and guardian of their bones. So

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Speaker 1: even Eana. Really it was a happening spot. If it

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Speaker 1: made for such an IDEO, that's really surprising. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so I'm going into all this this travelog thing

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Speaker 1: because just as a trying to Yeah, yeah, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of fun and besides, which maybe explains from motivation because

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Speaker 1: exactly what why would a person might that be motivated

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Speaker 1: to ghost, you know, go live on this island. Diona

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Speaker 1: is also supposedly inhabited by ghosts, fairies, sea fairies and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff like this. It's got a long

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Speaker 1: long list of legends about this about this place. So

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Speaker 1: Netta would find would have found that at active because

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Speaker 1: she was into the occult, in the astral projection and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. She was a member of Alpha a Omega,

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Speaker 1: which was an offshoot of the Hermetic Order of the

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Speaker 1: Golden Dawn, which is another cult group and I don't

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Speaker 1: know about at that time, but I know that, like modernly,

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare's Scottish Tragedy is pretty well read and regarded in

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Speaker 1: terms of kind of occult ghost story stuff. I can

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Speaker 1: see how it would be a draw um for her

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Speaker 1: as an occult member, for any occult member really, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if they if they were read in that sort of

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Speaker 1: shakespeare lore situation or I guess anymore, it seems yeah,

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Speaker 1: these guys were and that they weren't just into Shakespeare.

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Speaker 1: They had all sorts of like magical beliefs. There were

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Speaker 1: these things called the Secret Chiefs, which were like these

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Speaker 1: cosmic beings, beings that they believed that they had like

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Speaker 1: a direct phone line to cosmic chiefs. They're they're they're

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Speaker 1: called the Secret Chiefs, I think and to see. And

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Speaker 1: so these were cosmological beings that controlled a lot of

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Speaker 1: the chaos of the universe, and and they could be

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Speaker 1: communicated to according to the leaders of these of these cults,

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Speaker 1: that they could communicate with these people. Uh so, the

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Speaker 1: Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, it was in national

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Speaker 1: projections and all kinds of stuff. I had no reason

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Speaker 1: to believe that they were into like any of the

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Speaker 1: really ugly stuff like you know, human sacrifice and animal

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Speaker 1: sacrifice and all that stuff. I don't think they were.

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Speaker 1: Um well now, and maybe I'm thinking of the wrong group,

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Speaker 1: but I remember there was something that I read about

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Speaker 1: one of the one of the guys. It was a

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Speaker 1: founder I had asked for somebody to be buried alive

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Speaker 1: in front of some building that they had. That was

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Speaker 1: I believe that was say Colombu built as monastery. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I was getting it confused, because

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Speaker 1: I remember there was something about somebody needs to be

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Speaker 1: buried lying in front of this building. All. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was a friend of his friend volume and then they

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Speaker 1: know uncover his face so that he can say goodbye

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Speaker 1: to everybody, and he's obviously having second facity again. Up again.

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Speaker 1: It's really weird, But yeah, is a weird sect of

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Speaker 1: Christianity people back in those days. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: life was a little cheaper back in those days, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't really need to He didn't really expect to

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Speaker 1: live beyond about at thirty five. So maybe this guy

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Speaker 1: figured out, what the hell, if I go out on

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Speaker 1: a high note like this, I'm gonna be sure to

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Speaker 1: get to heaven the whole. The Hermetic Order of the

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Speaker 1: Golden Dawn was founded by Samuel mathers uh the group

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Speaker 1: with attractive a fair followers ship. In the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: there was a bit of a sex scandal and so

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Speaker 1: he lost some of his some of his temples, but

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Speaker 1: the ones that remained that remained loyal to him he

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Speaker 1: renamed the alphae Omega or in other words, Alpha and Omega,

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Speaker 1: and then after he died in nineteen eighteen, he was

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Speaker 1: six seed in the leadership role by his widow, Moyna Mather's.

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Speaker 1: Moyna Mather's is the one I showed you the picture

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Speaker 1: of the one, the one who appears on Yeah. So, um,

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Speaker 1: Netta was a member of this particular sect or cult

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But she was just a member, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't, as far as I know, in any kind

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Speaker 1: of leadership role. Moya eventually succeeded in expelling someone named

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Speaker 1: Dionfortune from the Order. The Unfortune was a woman who

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Speaker 1: actually was friends with Netta for an area, but she

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Speaker 1: published some of the air some of the cult secrets.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was in about two she actually published

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Speaker 1: some of those. And also it was rumored that Moyna

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Speaker 1: was jealous because her abilities to do things like astral

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Speaker 1: projection and stuff like that were superior to Moynas and

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Speaker 1: so she just didn't really like it like her, And

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Speaker 1: so she succeeded in getting her expelled from the Order,

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Speaker 1: and Dion went on and joined some other cults and

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Speaker 1: you know, did pretty well with them and remained friends

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Speaker 1: with Netta for an area. Anyway, I'll talk about Moyna

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Speaker 1: and Dion later. So back to Netta. I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: about Netta much at all so far. We talked about

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Speaker 1: her for about a minute and a half and giving

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Speaker 1: a travelog and a history of this alpha and it's

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Speaker 1: all back story. It's very important stuff. It really pays. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Her full name was Nora Emily Aditha Fnario. Her nickname

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Speaker 1: was Netta, and I don't know Nora's nice. I don't

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Speaker 1: know about all four names. So she headed to the island,

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Speaker 1: and she, upon landing, found lodging with a lady called

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Speaker 1: Mrs McCray. And I had not been able to definitively

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Speaker 1: establish what Mrs mcgray's full name is, but that's okay,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to know. She was Mrs McGray. I

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Speaker 1: seem a kindly old lady. Apparently they became friends at

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Speaker 1: Netta spent her day's wandering around the island and spent

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Speaker 1: her nights doing supernatural stuff like trances, astral projection, stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. So she spent some of her days sleeping.

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Speaker 1: Probably did a little sleeping too. She also believed that

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Speaker 1: she could heal people with their psychic hours, and actually

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Speaker 1: sent a letter to her housekeeper in London. So she

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Speaker 1: still had her digs back in London, and she had

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Speaker 1: been in communication, but she in this letter she said

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't be sending any letters for a while because

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Speaker 1: she quote had a terrible case of healing unquote to

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Speaker 1: work on. I don't nobody knows what that means. It's

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Speaker 1: a little mysterious that she apparently was either healing herself

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Speaker 1: or healing somebody else. And it's a weird phrase. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not phrase. I think Netta was an odd person.

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Speaker 1: I think I generally feel though, that I can get

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Speaker 1: into the minds of people in this kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: new age. I've been there, right, Like we've all kind

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Speaker 1: of had that phase where we go through and we're like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: projection and a tarot cards and all that stuff. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you guys did I went through that phase.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think it too seriously. I read what's his name,

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Speaker 1: don Juan, Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the the guy who

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Speaker 1: wrote these books about how he went out to this

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Speaker 1: guy's yeah, and it was like Carlos Castanana. Yeah, Carlos Castanada,

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Speaker 1: who it turns out, by the way, I was I

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Speaker 1: was going to do a little bit about Carlos Castanado

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Speaker 1: because he's an interesting guy of himself, because he was

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Speaker 1: the guy I really got into his books when I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, eight nineteen years Yeah, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what I did. Yeah, yeah, and you get into this

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Speaker 1: stuff and it turns out the guy was. The guy

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Speaker 1: was actually very very manipulative and ran a little cult

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Speaker 1: with a lot of little acolytes and stuff. The guy was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the guy was, and he was a massive fraud. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like a drug addict and and like all of that. Notwithstanding,

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Speaker 1: like you know, we've all kind of been through that phase.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Steve, I guess hasn't been. But I generally feel

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Speaker 1: like I can get into this kind of like mindset,

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Speaker 1: like I can at least understand it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the what is it a terrible case

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Speaker 1: of healing like that. She was like a little out

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Speaker 1: of my realm of being able to understand what's going

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Speaker 1: on there. Yeah, she's so. Nedda was either very gifted

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Speaker 1: in the psychic manner or she was a bit unbalanced. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could be, but she is. It's it's really kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to say. It's kind of a kind of

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Speaker 1: a head scratcher, but apparently her friend Dion believed that

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Speaker 1: she was psychically well, psychically gifted, very gifted in it.

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Speaker 1: She also she also told her landlady Mrs McGray that

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Speaker 1: she sometimes went in to trances and said it at

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Speaker 1: one time she had gone into a trance that lasted

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Speaker 1: for a week. What I'm sharing, Mrs McGray found a

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Speaker 1: little weird, but she she told Mrs McGray that she

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Speaker 1: shouldn't worry if if she wanted to a trance, and

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Speaker 1: she shouldn't call a doctor, she should just let it pass.

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Speaker 1: But she apparently never wanted any major trances while she

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Speaker 1: was staying there with Mrs McRae. On the morning of

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Speaker 1: November seventeenth, which was a Sunday, Uh, Nedda started packing

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Speaker 1: her luggage frantically. When Mrs McGray found her, she told

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Speaker 1: Mrs McGray that she needed to return to London right

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Speaker 1: away because several in viduals, she said, we're attacking her telepathically.

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Speaker 1: This has been Gray was a little skeptical about this obviously, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but and then but but then she did notice something odd,

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Speaker 1: which is that she and again you don't know if

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Speaker 1: this was inserted into the legend after the fact or what.

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Speaker 1: Supposedly though, she noticed that Neda's shiny silver jewelry had

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Speaker 1: basically tarnished black like overnight. And now some people, some

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Speaker 1: people have metabolisms and skin discretions such that they do

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Speaker 1: actually tarnish silver, and that well, yeah, it does happen.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't happen overnight? I cannot think of because I looked

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Speaker 1: this up to try and find out what causes that,

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Speaker 1: and it's something Casa doses and I can't think of

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Speaker 1: what it is, but it is. It's acidic, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's acidic sweat basically. And I can tell you

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Speaker 1: as somebody who has something at least a minor Kate,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long does it take to turn

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Speaker 1: bright silver black. I don't think I've ever turned to black.

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Speaker 1: I mean I always stopped wearing it. It might have

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Speaker 1: been an exaggeration, you know. I'll wear like a sterling

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Speaker 1: silver necklace or a ring or something like that fairly constantly,

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Speaker 1: and it takes, you know, a month or two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really seriously tarnished. I think that maybe what happened

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Speaker 1: here is that when she first met Netta fresh off

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Speaker 1: the boat or silver was shiny and then and she

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Speaker 1: just remembered it and being shiny, didn't remember it, didn't

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Speaker 1: notice that much after that. You know, you're living in

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Speaker 1: a kind of cold neighborhood. Yeah, under your shirt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a cold neighborhood. And it's like, yes, it probably

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Speaker 1: didn't turn black. Ye, I didn't turn dark overnight, and

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Speaker 1: it probably wasn't actually black. It was probably just darkened.

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Speaker 1: It's very tarnish. Yeah, although you know, I've got to

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Speaker 1: admit that silver does if you let it to get

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Speaker 1: exposed to elements, it will eventually get black. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I found a quarter recently. I mean, this is this

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Speaker 1: is a weird little little segue to it. But I

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Speaker 1: was wandering on a beach and looked down and went, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's not a rock and picked up what turned out

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Speaker 1: to be a quarter from So it's pure silver, and

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Speaker 1: it was pitch black because it had been in the

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Speaker 1: water for a while and it had just continued to

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Speaker 1: tarnish and tarnish and tarnish, and to the point that

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Speaker 1: I had to rub on the front of the face

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Speaker 1: with my finger for a minute to get the tarnish

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Speaker 1: to go off enough to be able to read it,

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Speaker 1: because it just it does happen, but it takes a

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Speaker 1: while for things to turn that black. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it does not overnight. So it would either be a

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Speaker 1: lie or super paranormal, right that everything turned black overnight.

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Speaker 1: They don't know that it would be a lie. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a lie. I would call that a

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Speaker 1: lapse in observation. Yeah, and she didn't. Necessarily, she might

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Speaker 1: have said, you know, I noticed at that point that

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Speaker 1: her silver Chris effects are on her neck and turn

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Speaker 1: turned really dark. And it didn't say the word overnight.

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Speaker 1: And then somebody else like sort of interpreted it that way.

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Speaker 1: But as happens, things get inserted shocking. Yeah, so she

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Speaker 1: and she might have said something. In the US, she

389
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: was probably being questioned by the local authorities whoever they were,

390
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: always said, did you notice anything odd about her appearance?

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00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: She would have said, well, you know, I did notice

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Speaker 1: that their silver cross it kind of turned dark. And

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Speaker 1: in a very religious community, that would be if you're

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Speaker 1: very strong, your faith and everything is based upon that,

395
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Speaker 1: that would be the kind of observation you would think

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00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 1: was important to bring forward, especially if she's doing these

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Speaker 1: and I don't I'm not gonna sound like I'm ripping

398
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Speaker 1: on her, but these kookie things at night that I

399
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: don't understand. In other words, her trances up all night

400
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: doing who knows what it's like. He's like, wow, that

401
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: lady's really weird. She's yeah, I think there might be

402
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 1: some devil's involved. I mean, I'm I'm obviously inferring a

403
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. But with that statement, but you know,

404
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: this could be where her mind was, which is would

405
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Speaker 1: then prompt her to say, and her silver was extremely

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Speaker 1: darkly tarnished. So anyway, so that's uh, let's let's go

407
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: back to the story for a sec. So Netta, Netta

408
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: was packing, packing hastily, as the story goes, and at

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Speaker 1: that point Mrs Gray mentioned to her that, by the way,

410
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Speaker 1: it's Sunday. You do realize that fairy doesn't run today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Neda was a little upset. But then apparently after a

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Speaker 1: little bit of time by herself in the room, she

413
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Speaker 1: came out and said that she changed her mind and

414
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Speaker 1: she was going to stay on the island after all.

415
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Speaker 1: Did I tell her that she was being psychically attacked?

416
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: You know? So maybe she successfully beat back the attack

417
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: she put up a shield ball. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,

418
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: it's a little as best super readily. Well, Professor X

419
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: does it all the time. Okay, Professor X is a mutant. Well,

420
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: so okay, all right, you're right, bad bad analogy I'm

421
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: sorry to all her x Men fans out there and friends.

422
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: I apologize for waiting Nea and Professor X on the

423
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: same page. How many how many of those movies that

424
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: they made, by the way, it doesn't made like dozens

425
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: were just back to the story, so she said she

426
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: changed her mind, and then she left to go walking

427
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: around what she liked to do a lot, and she

428
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: never came back. So and shed in the evening. Right,

429
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: she left in the afternoon, and then supposedly in late

430
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: afternoon early evening. In some telling of the story, Mrs

431
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 1: mcgraig got a little worried about her, and so they

432
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: started the search then, and other tellings of the story,

433
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 1: she wasn't really paying attention, but she wants to check

434
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: her room in the morning, and she wasn't there, and

435
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: that's when she got alarmed and searched in. The search began.

436
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: Soy the Sunday night or Monday morning, the search began,

437
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: and they scoured the island, and not till Tuesday did

438
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: they find her body. Uh So, she was at the

439
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: south end of the islands, not at the very south

440
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: tip or anything like that, but towards the south end,

441
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: wearing only a thin black cloak, which in late November

442
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: made the local doctor who got to play the role

443
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: of c. S I and this particular thing he decided

444
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 1: to cause of death was exposure. Just as a question,

445
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: was Mrs Gray able to say, yeah, that she left

446
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: the house wearing that or well, that's one of the

447
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: things I'm a little, a little kind of wondering about.

448
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: There's no mention. Yeah, that's one of the one of

449
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: the outsil mysteries here for me is that I'm assuming

450
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: she left the house fully closed, sure, and then at

451
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: some point decided to take it all off. Surely never

452
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: found her clothes, right, Surely if Mrs McGray was saying, oh, yeah,

453
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: her silver jewelry had turnished, she would also be like, oh, also,

454
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: she was naked except for a cloak. She walked out

455
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: of her birth Yeah. Yeah, and she wasn't wearing her shoes.

456
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: And certainly if she'd walked out, if you walked out

457
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: wearing a cloak, then that might be passable because the

458
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: cloak is closed. She can't see that she's naked if

459
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: it was a thin cloak, as long as her headlights

460
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: aren't on. But she was also found barefoot, so she

461
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: walked out wearing a cloak but barefoot. That would have

462
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: raised a few eyebrows. So I'm assuming she went out

463
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: fully closed and decided to to take it all off

464
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: at some point later on, but her clothes in her shoes.

465
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: But there's there's also the possibility that she did leave

466
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: in just that, just the cloak, and that Mr Mrs

467
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 1: mccraig didn't actually see her leave. But let's say just

468
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: heard the front door closed, she said, oh, I'm going

469
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: out by yeah, and shut the door and okay, see

470
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: you later whatever. And I mean, that's that's a possibility,

471
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: because that's the weird thing is where where her clothes?

472
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: That's what I've never been able to figure out. So well,

473
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: let's just say she left without any of them on,

474
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: but the cloak, that's consavable. Well, she buried him somewhere.

475
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: They just got blown away by the wind. Yeah, you know, yeah?

476
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: Is there I mean was that she was naked with

477
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: their naked except for the cloak. She had some scratches

478
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: on her on her body, and the soles of her

479
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: feet were kind of chewed up, which would probably happen

480
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: if you're walking her over rough ground your feet, but

481
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: not not on your torso she was walking around the moors.

482
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how heavy and sharp the brushes. The

483
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: brush is up there as she's walking around naked, she

484
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: could have gotten scratches on her body from just brush. So,

485
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: by the way, I do want to point out that

486
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: for anybody who's kind of questioning the cause of death,

487
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: because the local doctor, he said said it was exposure, exposed,

488
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: and he also said maybe a heart attack. But yeah,

489
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: he also was not very skilled at his job and others.

490
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: He was a local practitioner. He wasn't a mortician, he

491
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: wasn't a detailed doctor. He was take this because he

492
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: put the cause of death somewhere between ten o'clock on

493
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: Sunday night to think nine am on Tuesday morning, yeah,

494
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: before she was found. So I mean he's like he's

495
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: just covering all of his basis. Might have been exposure,

496
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: she might have had a heart attack, she died in

497
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: this window. Yeah, there you go, Thank you very much. Essentially,

498
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: what we're saying is that he gave as much information

499
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: as anyone in this room could have given him. Exactly

500
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: my point. I don't think that was was done well. No,

501
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: I mean, I I assume that this guy examined the

502
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: body carefully, just looking for things like signs that she

503
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: was by like clubbed or stabbed or anything like that,

504
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: no signs of foul play. Any of us in this

505
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: room would do the same thing, right, and then we

506
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: would say, uh, yeah, I mean, this guy has probably

507
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: seen more dead bodies than we have, so you probably

508
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: had a somewhat better better odds of correctly guessing there. No,

509
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm not disaccounting his abilities as a doctor and his

510
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: observations to make these kind of guesses, but it is

511
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: very basic. Yeah, and he was obviously if she was

512
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: killed by psychic attack, which will get into later, he

513
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: could probably had no means to detect that. Yeah, and Joe,

514
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I know. Okay, now let's jump into theory.

515
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: Is our favorite part of the show. You guys have

516
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: any theories, I do, but I'm gonna wait for you. Okay. Well,

517
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: I was gonna throw a few out. One is that

518
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: she was just out wandering, actually got lost, she got confused,

519
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: hypothermia was setting in, and as we all know, sometimes

520
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: when you have hypothermia, your brain doesn't not quite working right,

521
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: just like when we were talking about the the Outlaw Pass,

522
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: and so that whole thing. You think you're hot, little

523
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: part of hypothermia. Yeah, yeah, so maybe she was a

524
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: little bit confused and started taking off her clothes. And

525
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: then of course there's a there's the question of that

526
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: whole cross that's cut into the ground by the daggers

527
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: and by the way, I wanted to ask about that.

528
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: How big is this this cross that was carved in

529
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: I could never find anything that said was it a

530
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: one ft by two foot cross or an eight foot

531
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: by six foot cross? Like I can get scale on

532
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: this stage. I've never gotten in the scale on it either.

533
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: I hear that it's a large cross, so I'm assuming

534
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: it's it's like something like five or six feet something

535
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: that was big enough for her to lay on. I

536
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: had the impression that it was kind of like her

537
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: body was like, you know, it was a symbolism, like

538
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: of a crucifixion or similar to that. It was it

539
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: was about the size of her. I got that impression too,

540
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: But I've never seen anything that's either. But so we

541
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: don't really know how we three independently and for the

542
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: same thing. So perhaps that maybe the or perhaps we

543
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: just go to the same place every time. My other

544
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 1: question and this is why I ask about this is

545
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: there's this talk about the dagger and the cross in

546
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: the ground, but you never hear anything about the dirt

547
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: that the soil or what would be cut up. You know,

548
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: if I cut this cross in the ground, I, at

549
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: least from my perspective, I would presume that I would

550
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: cut it out and then I would roll on the

551
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: saw or whatever. Top soil is interesting because I thought

552
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: it was like just a like two lines. Oh see

553
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: see what I heard that. I thought she would literally

554
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: cut the growth off so it was bare dirt. Yeah,

555
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: but you don't know how much what's an inch? Why

556
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: anybody to choose to shovel that's trying to dig up

557
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: any kind of plant life and half an inch an

558
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: inch deep to try to expose bar dirt? That's not

559
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: easy work, which might explain like this, this whole thing

560
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: about cuts and scrapes. Although let's be fair, in Scotland

561
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: it's either grass or moss, right, true, But where would

562
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: that where I never heard anything about this this Let's

563
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: just say my my direction was correct, well, that we

564
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 1: never heard anything about a pile of soil or plant

565
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: life that had been cast aside for her to lay

566
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: in this exposed dirt, which is why I think I

567
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: assumed that it was just like two lines right that

568
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: like somebody had just done like the line drawing of

569
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: a cross under it, just like literally just stabbing the

570
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: earth and just gouging it. So it's an audible, a

571
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: noticeable cut in the ground, but it's not open. Yeah,

572
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: it's also possible to move some turf to have a

573
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: more well defined cross. And yeah, it sucked it aside

574
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: and nobody, nobody really I thought it was worth to

575
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: put into report or anything. Well, and and plus we

576
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: don't know like weather conditions, like it's Scotland in November,

577
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: it was probably raining. There's a lot of different stuff

578
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: that was probably potentially going on there that could have

579
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: gotten rid of all that soil anyway, So the cross

580
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: is like a little bit of a mystery. But it see,

581
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: it does appear that she cutted herself. And as far

582
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: as the clothes go, you know, that's still almost still

583
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: again if it's windy and might have been blown away.

584
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: And again one of these things could be one of

585
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: those little details. Maybe there was a little pile of

586
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: her clothes right there and it just you know got

587
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: lost over time. Because I remember this happened eighty five

588
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: years ago, so that and it's an unsolved mystery, right,

589
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean that's the other we we often talked about

590
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: this on the show that like these unsolved mysteries quote unquote,

591
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: like the telling of them gets more and more fantastical

592
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: at time goes on and details just like he cares

593
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: about that, you know, we've got to get some blue

594
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: lights in this. Yeah, and missing clothes and like she

595
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: was naked and there were mysterious scratches on the body,

596
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: and there was a dude standing right there. Yeah he

597
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't standing right there, he was lurking nearby. Hey yeah. Yeah.

598
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: So this theory is that for some reason she was

599
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: out there doing something she got lost and hypothermia, so

600
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 1: just like walking around or whatever, and decided to shed

601
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: some layers and maybe do a little later production or

602
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: something like that. Or maybe she was doing some spell

603
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: that would warm her body, or maybe maybe or maybe

604
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: this was going to do a spell that would tell

605
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: her the way home because she was lost, or sent

606
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: her to London. Oh yeah, maybe that seems that gonna

607
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: be kind of impossible to get lost in an island's

608
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: only one mile wide. And four miles long. Well, again

609
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: I go back to this whole like lack of understanding

610
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: of the weather. You know, if it were gray and

611
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: like super dark and windy, and if she was hypothermic

612
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: and disoriented and she kind of you know, like awoke

613
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: into her senses realized crap, like I'm lost and it's cold,

614
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know I'm naked for some reason, and

615
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: it's it's also unnn fact that people don't are in

616
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: almost incapable of walking in straight line. So you say

617
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: that I want to walk there, I'm going. I know

618
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: if I walk north, I will get to some place.

619
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: But instead you walk in a circle. So whether it

620
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: be a half mile or a uh yards circle, you

621
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: continue to walk in a circle. Although to be fair,

622
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: if you know the island is as small it is

623
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: as it is, you just think, I mean at a

624
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: like a fair brisk pace. I walk about a twenty

625
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 1: minute mile, and most people kind of breast place, especially

626
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: in those times. So if you just say, okay, well,

627
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: the circumference of this is like basically four miles, right,

628
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: So if I just like hug the coast, I will

629
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: eventually get back to the village, get back. But if

630
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: you're freezing cold. You don't want to take the four

631
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: mile hike. You're going to try and take the half

632
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: mile shortcut. Yeah, probably true. But but we I think

633
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: we think we hypothermia pretty well. Another possibility is suicide. Yeah,

634
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: maybe she just deliberately went out there and thought, you know,

635
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hypothermia as ways to go are It's not

636
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: so bad compared to like say, being eaten by sharks

637
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: or being burned alive or something like that. So maybe

638
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: she wanted to commit suicide and maybe she figured, hey,

639
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: I'll be buried on Iona and the most sacred of islands.

640
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: She was all these Scottish kings and she was I mean,

641
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: I guess even she had a dagger with her right, Yeah.

642
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: So I mean it's even possible that she initially went

643
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: out there thinking I'll just follow my dagger. I'll just

644
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: follow my dagger, and then you know, like cowarded out

645
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: of the last second. Mighty explain the scratches on her

646
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: tour so too. I mean, she was trying to stab

647
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: the tentative what do they call it? Those? Isn't the

648
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: hesitat hesitation marks? Yeah, where she's she's trying, Well, I

649
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: just do a little one hurt. What do you hear

650
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: these stories about Japanese people committing Harry Carey, you know,

651
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: stabbing yourself to death with a sword. It's like, how

652
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: do you do that? You have to be really why

653
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: they fall on culturally ingrain I just but that's but

654
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: you know, it's also why they they the culture says

655
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: you fall on your sword because once you're starting to

656
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: pitch forward, you can't twist aside fast enough. Yeah, that's

657
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it. Actually, you know, push

658
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: the sword into yourself. Now you keep get so suicide

659
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: is a possibility. Now the possibility is psychic attacks. She

660
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: was done in by a psychic attack. Who yeah, well

661
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: the sinister Mouena Mouena Matters, Yeah, sinister, Yeah, her her

662
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: friend the unfortunately that's right because she has friends with

663
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: friends with Dion and uh shee accused Moena Matters of

664
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: murder Netta. Well, I suppose that. I mean again, you know,

665
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: we don't know why Netta decided, oh I'm going to

666
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: go to this far reaching island that has some psychic powers.

667
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: But it might be to get away. It maybe to

668
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: like flee. It might have been Yeah, it could have

669
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: been do you have the problem with the Way to

670
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: Matters series that she died the year before, thank you,

671
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be like the jerk that

672
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: poopoo's this whole theory, but this one is the hardest

673
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: one for me to even try because it never went

674
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: you never went through Carlos Custodager, I didn't maybe if

675
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: she could reach beyond the grave, maybe, But then if

676
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: that's the case, I mean, actually Moyenna when of Matters,

677
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: actually had more reason to psychically attack the unfortune yeah

678
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: than just attack although I don't know how close they were.

679
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: If like, it would have been worse for Dion to

680
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: like live with the haunting nous of like her friend's

681
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: mysterious death. Maybe I don't know why I want to

682
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: wait until after she died to do with listen, more

683
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: psychic powers. You get more psychic powers after you die. Okay,

684
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: all right, that's so that's get that maybe a possibility

685
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: next theory, she was mentally disturbed and she just like

686
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: I thought, wandering around naked in late November would would

687
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: be a fun idea. I gotta be honest. I have

688
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: a couple of friends that I worry about this with

689
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 1: that are still like in there somehow, you know, they're

690
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: almost thirties somehow in there, like Carlos castanea like weird

691
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: psychic attack phase where they you know, every once in

692
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: a while I get a text from them that's like

693
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: being attacked psychically by blah blah blah, and I'm like, wow, really,

694
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: you actually, like you truly believe that it's not like

695
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: an attention thing. And I worry sometimes that like wow,

696
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: maybe that's like you just are. So this is this

697
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: is a this is very but this theory is kind

698
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: of related to the first one. Then, yeah, this is

699
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: an offshot of the first series. Good a better description

700
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: of the first one, right, yeah, yeah, Well the first

701
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: theory is that she was not not mentally to range

702
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: so much, but the hypothermia cause it was just like, well, okay,

703
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: I see this thing o. The cause in this case

704
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: is mental mental illness bringing about I'm clothing herself and

705
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: getting a hypothermia. So so I yeah, for me, this

706
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: theory was for something kind of helps inform theory one, right,

707
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: It gives a good reason behind why somebody might be

708
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: out there. But there's there there are indications in the

709
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: story that this could be right. Her whole. I've got

710
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: to get off this island. I gotta pack everything now,

711
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I'm okay, don't worry about it now,

712
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: I'm fine. Yeah. Are you sure you're fine? You were

713
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: just freaking up? No, I'm fine, It's totally okay. She

714
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: didn't say whether the Netta puts some tinfoil over her

715
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: head that might have saw off the psychic attacks. Yeah. Yes,

716
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: mental disturbance caused her to get naked and die hypothermia. Okay,

717
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: next hearing. Maybe she was wanted to do some ritual

718
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: and the ritual required her to be naked or nearly

719
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: naked in order to do that, and she at this

720
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: time was just a little bit too mentally disturbed to

721
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: understand what a bad idea this was doing it, this

722
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: was exactly Uh So, maybe she decided that she was

723
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: going to do a little astral projection, although I had

724
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: no I know nothing about astro projection. I don't think

725
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: you need to be naked to do it. But she

726
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: decided to cut the cross, lay down, do some astro projection,

727
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: and her consciousness went out and wanted the universe for

728
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: a while, and then when it came back and it

729
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: got home, well, she had expired from hypothermia, So maybe

730
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: she was doing astral projection, I mean as possible, right,

731
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: I Mean, they're like so many things to build on this,

732
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: right is. But like if she already kind of thought

733
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: that was a thing, she could have been drunk or

734
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: like on drugs enough to really believe that and think, well,

735
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: I have to be naked to do this. I'm just

736
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: gonna lay down for a minute while I do this,

737
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: because you know, you don't have to be laying down

738
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: to do astral projection, but like maybe you're inebriated and

739
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: being laying down feels better, right, Um, I don't know.

740
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: And also it wasn't that it wasn't the founder of

741
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: um Alpha Omega. He had some sexual scandal happened and

742
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: that's why he found it Alpha and Omega. Yeah, so

743
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: the hermetic Order of the New Dawn or whatever. So

744
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: it's totally possible. I know that it was definitely a

745
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: thing in a lot of those kind of alternate psychic

746
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: crazy orders in the twenties that like there was a

747
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: lot of sexual stuff that went with that. So I

748
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: guess it is certainly possible that she there was a

749
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: ritual that she was trying to perform or whatever it

750
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: involved that sexual component, you know. I mean, you think

751
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: about it, if you're a cult leader and you're gonna

752
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: like try to attract attractive female followers into your whole thing,

753
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: and you're gonna you're gonna teach them all these rituals.

754
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: They said, by the way, this requires you to be

755
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 1: completely naked. Like that is one of the most pervasive

756
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: like just strands and all of the cults that I've

757
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: ever read about is that, you know, it's like almost

758
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: always founded by like some thirty or above guy who's

759
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: always like, oh, yeah, by the way, I get all

760
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: these fifteen year old wives. Yeah, we're gonna have a

761
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: lot of sex. It's just part of the religion. It's cool.

762
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: It's disturbing because they're they're playing off of people who

763
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: are very naive, yeah, or or mentally whatever. The branch

764
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: Davidians don in Waco, you know, the Jim Karash was

765
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: their cult leader, and that was one of the things. Yeah,

766
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: you all come and live in the compound and I

767
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: get to have sex with your wives, And it's like

768
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: what kind of guy would do that? That was the

769
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: thing we just talked about the cult last week with

770
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: the Monster with twenty one faces. The cults in Japan. Yeah,

771
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: I can't remember, and I know that he it was

772
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: like mostly him in the followed him and he was

773
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: having sex with all of them. I want to be

774
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: a cult leader, seriously, I mean, not the big part

775
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: of a lot of cults. And I don't know if

776
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Alpha at Omega was that kind of cult or not,

777
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I'm not willing to discount the

778
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: fact that like that could potentially be quote you know,

779
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: air quote part of that ritual. Yeah, I don't know

780
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: that they were. There's not enough I couldn't find enough

781
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: available information about these guys. Shocking. Yeah, I know it

782
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: appears that they took the medic the medic physical aspects

783
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: of things more seriously than a lot of these these

784
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: really weird little cults like the Branch Davidians or Jones,

785
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: him Jones, those guys. Yeah, but I can't say what

786
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: they are up to. Nobody knows, right because that's part

787
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: of it. But certainly enough, if you're if you're gonna

788
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: do a ritual that doesn't hurt to be naked, and

789
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: so if you're the if you're the cult leader, you're

790
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna say, you know, you're gonna say, like, hey,

791
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: by the way, this you're required to be naked to

792
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: do this to this ritual, be three year old young

793
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: woman who's super attractive. Again, it's required for some very

794
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: base reasons why that happens. And there it is very disturbing,

795
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: and I think I'm just gonna leave it at that.

796
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna move us away from this because I'm

797
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: really actually I'm a little uncomfortable continuing to repeat this conversation.

798
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about some of your theories. Yeah, actually

799
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: have two theories that I think both playoff of the

800
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: last theory that you talked about. No, not no UFOs alright,

801
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: sobot no, no Scottish yetti. But I have I have

802
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: two theories here, and this is just based off of

803
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: things that I read Ninford and then a little bit

804
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: of random research that I did. My first my first

805
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: thought is that I think you touched upon this a

806
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: little bit, is well, what if she was Devin, you

807
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: said this one if she's a little high. Okay, Well,

808
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: at the time that she came the island, and I

809
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: was reading the accounts about now, they were saying that

810
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: she really looked terrible kind of sunken eyes, kind of

811
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: a bad pallor about her. And we've talked about the

812
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: fact that you know, maybe she's got that the condition

813
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: where she's oxidizing the silver a lot, so she could

814
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: have had what was equated to some kind of internal

815
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: oregan disorder. Well, at that time, there were a lot

816
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: of folklore about using heather plants to make teas and

817
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: polstices from to heal you. It's never been supported anywhere.

818
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: In other words, I've done I've looked at it, and

819
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, Nick could maybe do something, but we

820
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: can't scientifically prove that it does a damn thing for you.

821
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. For years and years and years

822
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: on these islands, people used to make beer out of heather,

823
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: and they used to only use the fresh new growth

824
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: tips of the plant because they didn't have hops. That's

825
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: what they used to make the fermentation from. But it

826
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: was common knowledge that you didn't go into the older

827
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: growth because I guess what was commonplace in the older

828
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: growth of those plants that the bread mole that we

829
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: talked about. So I could see where she is using

830
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: this stuff to try to make yourself feel better, and

831
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: she gets some of it. I feel, okay, I feel,

832
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: And then she gets a bad batch and she goes

833
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: on a bender, not knowing what's going on. And now

834
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: she's off, you know, in a in an altered state,

835
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: And that would explain she's break from reality basically just

836
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: chewing on plants out there. Well, if she made a

837
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: pulsterice out of it, which puls this requires heating it up,

838
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: that would kill it. So I guess she was making

839
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: a t some kind of talk police that you put

840
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: on your body, right right, because you gotta kind of

841
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: make it into a pace, so you gotta heat it

842
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: up and break it down. But if you're making it

843
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: as a t and you're just dipping it in water,

844
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: it's some of it's gonna survive. So now you're in

845
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 1: an altered state. You have a break from reality, and

846
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: off you go. And so let's say the first thing

847
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: in the morning, she makes some of that tea, and

848
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: she's having a bit of a trip, and that's why

849
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: she wants to get off the island. And then she

850
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: has some more and she quote unquote evens out and

851
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 1: then has more of that bad badge, and now she's

852
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: gone on a really bad trip. And suddenly she is

853
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: out there. Man, that's possible. You would think that Mrs

854
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 1: McRae and would I would have noticed her making tea

855
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: from this stuff and warned her about the possibilities of

856
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: You would think maybe she wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe

857
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: she wasn't in the kitchen and so she wasn't paying attention.

858
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: Uh So, I mean that could explain why she would

859
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: have gone out there and and died from exposure, because

860
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: she is just out, just completely passes out. It's also

861
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: possible that the other thing that I think could have

862
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: happened is as agitated. Is I got the impression that

863
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: she was that day and her again her bad pallor

864
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: and her physical condition. I mean, they talked about the

865
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: fact that she couldn't walk more than a couple hundred

866
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: yards at a time before she had to stop and

867
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: come back to the house. She couldn't go far afield,

868
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: which leads me to wonder if she had some kind

869
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: of condition. I wouldn't say, like congestive heart failure, but

870
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: she might have been in a situation where she was

871
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: getting the beginnings of a stroke. So she's got you know,

872
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: what is it when you've got the vein that bursts

873
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: in your brain. I can't think of and embolism. She's

874
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: got an embolism that's buildings. So she she's losing her energy,

875
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: and then she has a small stroke. She wigs out.

876
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: That's why she wants to leave because she's gone into

877
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: an altered state again, and then kind of calms down,

878
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 1: goes out into the into the landscape, and then has

879
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: the major stroke. I mean, if we're having I mean,

880
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: if we're going to go that route, you know, things

881
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: like a cute kidney failure or like appendicitis, those things

882
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: will all render those kind of like san and if

883
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: you're in that kind of I guess culture of thinking,

884
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: a psychic attack could be causing those things right where

885
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: you're like nauseous and you've got a headache, tired, and

886
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: then you you're able to just kind of calm yourself

887
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: down because you can, you know, people can talk themselves

888
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: down from things like that. You say, okay, okay, I'm fine,

889
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go for a walk. That will make

890
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: me feel better. You know, for whatever reason, have this break.

891
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: Take your clothes off because you've got a fever maybe

892
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. It could be so many different year old

893
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: again wanted to run in the sea. And you would

894
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: assume that any I mean even like a doctor, just

895
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: like a family doctor, should be able to say it

896
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: was some kind of failure or but but that's that's

897
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: that's is basing it upon that he was able to

898
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: examine her when she was alive, which she may never

899
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: have gone to this guy on the island. It's uh,

900
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: it's no, there's not a definitive arrival day. So she

901
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: supposedly arrived there somewhere in July or August. So let's

902
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: let's say she arrived there at the first day of August.

903
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: So it takes to work up to go into a doctor.

904
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: Almost she had no particular reason that I know of

905
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: to go see the doctor to begin with. So he

906
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: may not have had a living symptom to base it

907
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: upon for whatever malady that it might have beens. Yeah,

908
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: and he wasn't. He wasn't set up to do the

909
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: whole you know, like the autopsy and cut her open

910
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: and look at her look at her inergery, Yeah, and

911
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: do toxicology and see if maybe she had some sort

912
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: of poisoning like you're talking about going on. She he

913
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: wasn't set up for that okay, so so much for

914
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: that theory. Theories good, so Devon, well he really just

915
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of disconnected that one and ch those. I don't

916
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: remember what I was gonna say, So let's go to Devon.

917
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't. I guess I don't really have any theory.

918
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm still like just so fresh

919
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: out of my like again, we've been calling it the

920
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: Carlos Castel in a phase, right, I can't with certainties

921
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: say any of these are wrong. Maybe she was actually

922
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: being psychically attacked. Probably not. I kind of doubt that.

923
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: I super doubt that. But again, I'm not so far

924
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: out of that phase where I can't say it's not

925
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: it's not that bizarre. There was somebody just recently, I

926
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: think it was up around Mountain Rainier. Somebody took some

927
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: LSD some young woman and took off all of her

928
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: clothes and just headed out into the woods. It had

929
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: bad It happens all the time. There's so many different rs.

930
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in the twenties, right, so we've

931
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: got like all this like bad heroin going around like

932
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: and there, and these drugs have existed for so long.

933
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: It's a very curious, mysterious death that I have no

934
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: good theories on. I honestly am just happy to say

935
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: I don't understand it, and it's really weird. I don't

936
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 1: I don't get it either, you know, like this this,

937
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, all of none of our theories really addressed

938
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: the like cross situation. You know, they say, well, I

939
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: don't know, then maybe she went nuts and did that, right,

940
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: there's no good for that. None of them really truly

941
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: addressed the fact that maybe there was a guy like lurking, right,

942
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's just weird. Yeah, And I really

943
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: discounted the guy lurking in the black cloak because if

944
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: you murder somebody or somewhere how involved in her death,

945
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: and you sort of learn just lurk for two days,

946
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: days for days until why are you going to Why

947
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: don't you go lurk somewhere else? I mean, I guess

948
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: I generally feel like, you know, there there's in my

949
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: like storybook version, there's like something missing here right where

950
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, also, she happened to have a

951
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: lover on the island, that's why she was there, and

952
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: would you would think that would eventually somehow, but it

953
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: never did. So I don't have a good feeling about this.

954
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: What's your favorite theory, Well, we can make up another one.

955
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: Let's say she was a drug addict and she want

956
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: there to try to get away from her dealer, her dealer,

957
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: and then at some point she's going to see some

958
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: some major or might might it might be that she

959
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: established a connection on the island just she happens since

960
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: and then was back back in the throws of addiction.

961
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: And then one day realizes that she she drops her

962
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: Violet Loud nem or whatever it is, and breaks in

963
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: and realize, I'm fresh out, you know, and I've got

964
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: to go to London and score some more. And maybe

965
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: why don't may just be smirched the name of I know,

966
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: I know, I know is out there. It's totally out there.

967
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: But then she then she thinks about it. She can't

968
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: leave anyway, The fairy doesn't go on Sundays, and then

969
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: she thinks about and thinks, you know, I really need

970
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: to kick this crap instead of doing that. But then

971
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: she later on decides, you know what, this just really

972
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: sucks and I hate my life. I'm going to go

973
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: out and take my clothes off and die. So maybe

974
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: that's thank you happy there is no reason to believe that.

975
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't want to be smersed the

976
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: name of netaporn areo any more theories none whatssoever. So

977
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: that's the end of the theories. If you have theories

978
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: of your own, you can always send us an email

979
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. You can,

980
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: of course go to our website, which is Thinking Sideways

981
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Uh. If you're looking to download our shows,

982
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 1: of course you probably already know how you get to iTunes.

983
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: But if you do go to iTunes and get our shows,

984
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: please comment a rating. We like that, especially good ratings.

985
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: We really like those. Well, ratings are great because that's

986
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: how other people find us. Really, ratings of any kind.

987
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: I don't care what you do, Yeah, exactly. If you

988
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: don't have time to get to iTunes, or maybe your

989
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: house is burned down or whatever, you've got to get

990
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: us on the fly, you can go to Stitcher and

991
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: stream us directly from Stitcher. Uh, find us on Facebook.

992
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: We are on Facebook, so find us, like us, leave

993
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: some comments. We like that. All right, So concludes another

994
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: successful mystery solving it Thinking Sideways the Podcast. So so well, yeah, okay,

995
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: we didn't solve it exactly. We probably we probably, we

996
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: probably muddied the water of stuff. But yeah, yeah yeah

997
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes we we know, solve it well rarely, but

998
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 1: you know, this time, I don't think we quite Either

999
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: we solve it or we ruin it. Yeah, we ruined it. Okay, Well,

1000
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: I think we bumped the lurking guy in the black cloak. Yeah.

1001
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: I think we pretty much by just ignoring the fact

1002
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: that he was the blue lights. We just ignored the

1003
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: blue lights. We paid attention to the blue did we, Yeah,

1004
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: we said, oh yeah, more blue lights. They're always showing

1005
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: up in these things. Have you noticed that? So that's

1006
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: it for this week, folks. I hope you enjoyed the

1007
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: episode and be sure to tune in next week for

1008
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: another exciting unsolved mystery here at Thinking Sideways. Bye bye,

1009
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: bye guys, Bye