1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: The Michael Vari Show is on the air. 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Caucasian. Caucasian. 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, a white guy with a mustache, about 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: six foot. 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: Three, not very big mustache. 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: Ahlulia Clarcaus is a serious matter. I'll do it. Myselfty 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: four years old. I am the son of the Vietnam 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: War generation. It is probably the most profound, impactful historical 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: event in American history that gets the least amount of 11 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: attention relative to the impact it made on this country now. 12 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: It is more recent, of course, than the Revolution or 13 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: the Civil War, World War One, or World War Two, 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: but the profound cultural change it precipitated cannot be measured 15 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: yet and will not be measured for decades to come. 16 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: Families torn apart, women left without their husbands, children left 17 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: without a father. In some cases, children made, father goes 18 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: to Vietnam, father does not come home except in a coffin, 19 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: and the child never knew their dad, a very, very 20 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: troubling scenario. Those who came home from World War Two 21 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: were heroes. Those who came home from Vietnam were spat upon. 22 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: There's been some argument over the last few years whether 23 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: they were spat upon or not. I've had enough tell 24 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: me they were that. I believe it, But either way, 25 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: it was troubling. Why were we there, Why weren't we 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: when we left? Why did it take so long? And 27 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: how did the other side win, if in fact they did, 28 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: what were really the goals? These things bother me. I 29 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: wrestle with them, and I wrestle with them because, as 30 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: you know, I had a club called the RCC, and 31 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: I would get up every night that we had a 32 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 2: big concert, and I would say from the stage, Hey, 33 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: we're gonna do three things. You know, kiss your bride, 34 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: this is date night. Or number two, make a friend. 35 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: Number three. I want all my veterans come down. And 36 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: I would call out the veterans of every conflict, including 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: at that point when we started twenty thirteen, there were 38 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: still World War Two veterans Korea. I would skip Vietnam 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: and I would go to all of the conflicts since, 40 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: and then I would do Vietnam last. And I would 41 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: see grown men in their seventies, tears streaming down their faces, 42 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: and their children my age would come up to me afterwards. 43 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: Have never seen my dad cry you hit him, you 44 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: punched him in the gut. This was a moment that 45 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 2: he emoted publicly, and he's never done that. So with 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: that in mind, we do a fair number of I 47 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: don't like the word interview, I like the word discussion 48 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: on the subject of Vietnam, and today is further to 49 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: that point. The author of Flags of Our Fathers has 50 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 2: released a new book about the Vietnam War. It's called 51 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: Precious Freedom, a novel, and James Bradley, the author, is 52 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: our guest. Welcome to the program, James, Thank you, Michael. 53 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: It's good to be with the czar. 54 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 2: Let's start with why I write this book. What's the purpose? 55 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: What do you hope to accomplish? 56 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: I tried to figure out what happened. I was thirteen 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: years old when my brother went off to the Marine 58 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Corps in nineteen sixty seven, so I watched everything on 59 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: TV that Walter Cronkite had to tell me, and I 60 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: wrote a book, Flags of Our Fathers, about how my 61 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: father won with the Marine Corps in World War Two 62 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: and then we lost in Vietnam. So my brother's with 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: the Marines, my father's with the Marines. In one family 64 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: and one generation, totally different outcome. So I wrote four 65 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: books on the Pacific War, why we got there, Teddy Roosevelt, 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: Franklin Roosevelt, George Bush, my Houstonian buddy getting shot down. 67 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: And then I thought, what about this Vietnam? So I 68 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: went to Vietnam. You know, I had four books under 69 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: my belt, and I thought, I'll just spend three years 70 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: here and have a book done. And it took me 71 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: about eleven years to figure out what happened. So the 72 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: first reason it took me so long is because I 73 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: had to disentangle from all the propaganda that we're still 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: enmeshed with, even the wording. Even the wording. If you 75 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: want me to continue, or you want to, I mean, 76 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: I can give you some example. 77 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: James, I should have warned you when I am really 78 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: interested in an interview. My New Year's resolution this year 79 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: was to stop interrupting people. So I literally turned my 80 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: mic off and become a member of the audience. If 81 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: I need to interrupt you, I will, but by all 82 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: means speak on. I am listening, not waiting to ask 83 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 2: a question, but learning from you. So you go. 84 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: Ahead, well, I'll give you some examples of why I 85 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: was dumbfounded. You know, this is after reading like two 86 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: hundred books on the Vietnam War interviewing Vietnam Vet's I 87 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: was immersed in the American narrative. And I go to 88 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: Vietnam and I go in a veterans, a Vietnamese veterans house, 89 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: and he says, mister Bradley, look at your feet, and 90 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: my feet were in my socks on his floor. And 91 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: I said, what about him? And he said, this was 92 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: a marine base. Your brother thought this was American territory. 93 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: He said, there was no north in South Vietnam. He said, 94 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: the New York Times drew a line across the country 95 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: called it the DMZ. We never thought there was a 96 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: north and south. He said. I didn't think I needed 97 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: a visa to visit my uncle in another country. I mean, Michael, 98 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: I had to go back to my hotel room, like, 99 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: oh my god. This is like Canada invades Texas and 100 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: draws a line down the middle and says, now, look 101 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: at Michael, there's an East Texas in a West Texas. 102 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: In East Texas loves Canada and West Texas were the 103 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: bad guys. And there's two countries here. Michael, you wouldn't, 104 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: I mean, what are you talking about. You're from Canada. 105 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: So we went and we imposed, there was no DMZ, 106 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: there was no International Boarder because Vietnamese never thought the 107 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: North invaded the South. That was all made up gobblygook 108 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: from the CIA, Walter Cronkite, Ken Burns and every documentary 109 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: you've ever seen. So the v you know, if you 110 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: look at a diagram of Vietnam, they say, we say, oh, 111 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: we sent your father to South Vietnam to fight North 112 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: Vietnam to make South Vietnam free. And the Vietnamese were like, 113 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: there's one Vietnam. Hanois the same as Saigon. There's some 114 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: traders that are bribed, you know, the guys who ran 115 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: South Vietnam, the Vietnamese. These were the guys who fought 116 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: for the French against to Chi Minh. So it's like, 117 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, Britain loses in the Revolutionary War, and then 118 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: Britain stays in like Virginia, let's say, and France comes 119 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: in and gives them money, and they keep telling the British, 120 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's a British America here. We 121 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: didn't really lose, and all the traders to the American 122 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: cause are getting pumped up with money. There was no 123 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: South in North Vietnam. That's one thing another thing. So 124 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: it took me about six months of drinking tea for 125 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: them to part the veil. I got to talk to 126 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: people VC viet Cong, who you know, never talked to foreigners. 127 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: It took so long to get into this. Mister Bradley, 128 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: you want to meet this famous sniper, And I said, yeah, sure, 129 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking. 130 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: James Bradley, hold right there. I'm up against the break 131 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: hold type. The book is called Precious Freedom a Novel. 132 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: Will continue with our guest, James Bradley. You've got the 133 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: Michael Berry Show. James Bradley is our guest. He's the 134 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: author of Flags of Our Fathers. He has a new 135 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: book about the Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, a Novel. 136 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: I had to interrupt you in the middle. You were 137 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: talking about visiting the home of a Vietnamese Vietnam War veteran. 138 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: Pick up where you left off if you would please her. 139 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you want to meet it a famous sniper. Yeah, 140 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: of course, so sniper. You know, I'm thinking of a 141 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: lanky guy, you know, stumble. And I walk in and 142 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: it's a sixty five year old former principal, a female 143 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: and she's sitting there. This is the famous sniper, and 144 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: this is what she's the main character in the book. 145 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: Her name is May. May said mister Bradley. When I 146 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: was fifteen years old, a marine walked into my front yard, 147 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: shot my father in the head and killed them. And 148 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: I said to myself, I'm going to kill every American 149 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: I ever see. So I'm an American in her living 150 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: room and I said, well, how did you do? She said, 151 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: I killed five Americans. It's easy if you have patients. 152 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: So she was fifteen. You know. We asked like, how 153 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: do people get radicalized? Why do they hate us? Well, 154 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm from Wisconsin. If a Canadian walked into my front 155 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: yard shot my dad in the head, I can recognize 156 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: that Canadian uniform. I know exactly what those Canadian as 157 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: ames look like. I'm fifteen. I'm going to run to 158 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: the forest get trained like she did. And she sat 159 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: up in a tree and she snipered to death five Marines. 160 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: She probably killed twenty to thirty, but she got medals 161 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: for five that were witnessed. Now, the number one marine sniper. 162 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: There's a book about him, Carlos Halfcocked. He's very very famous. Carlos. 163 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: He snipered ninety two to dead. I've got a picture 164 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: I'm looking at right now of a beautiful Vietnamese girls. 165 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: She's twenty two years old. She killed one hundred and 166 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: seventy four Americans. It was their country. They were not 167 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: in uniforms. They could be up in trees. I mean, 168 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: think of it. When you're fifteen and a foreign army 169 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: comes into town. Well, the foreign army's in a bunch, 170 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: they're in a group, they're making noise. They come in 171 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: armored care and you're fifteen sitting there at barefoot, and 172 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: you know all the alleyways. I could run like four 173 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: or five blocks across my hometown when I was fifteen 174 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: at night, and I knew where every fence was, and 175 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: where every open window was, and you know a basement 176 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: that was open in somebody's house. And they just energized 177 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: all these kids. And what the book is about. My 178 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: brother goes to this base called dong Ha. It's a 179 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: marine base, well, the Marines, and this is not publicized. 180 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: It's hard to find this. They leave in nineteen sixty nine, 181 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: not nineteen seventy five. With the helicopters. The Marines are 182 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: pushed out. Well, they weren't pushed out by the North 183 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: Vietnamese army. They were pushed out by kids, by civilians 184 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: with old French rifles. They were being tricked and snipered. 185 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: So another story. I'm thirteen watching Walter Cronkite CBS News 186 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: and they show me Route nine. Well, what's Route nine. 187 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: It cuts across the neck of Vietnam, right below the DMZ, 188 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: so it goes from the South China Seed to Laos 189 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: and it's the main thoroughfare. And Route nine. I saw it. 190 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: I remember, I'm thirteen and there's the news. Here's Route 191 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: nine and the Marines are in complete control. I saw 192 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: tanks and armored cars, and well, I went out with 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: the with the tiger of Route nine. Mister Sone, who's 194 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: in the book. And I said, mister Sone, I remember 195 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: seeing this on TV with marines all over. And he said, yeah, 196 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: you didn't see me in the pictures in the film. 197 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean. He said, We never 198 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: fought during the day, he said, mister Bradley, all those 199 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: newsreels you saw of Vietnam, he said, those are all 200 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: shot during the day. We didn't fight during the day. 201 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: We were sleeping during the day, talking to our girl 202 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: friends doing medical care, you know, judicial work, getting food 203 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: in in these underground cities that we had. And he said, 204 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: we came out at night. He said, it's easy to 205 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: be successful at night. He said, your brother probably never 206 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: swept hardly slept the wink at night because we were, 207 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, attacking. So Michael, every day at four pm, 208 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: the Marines retreated from Route nine and I'm like, oh 209 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: my god, we never controlled Vietnam. We said we controlled Vietnam, 210 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: like this area, that area, it's under control. We never 211 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: controlled it for a full twenty four hour period. The 212 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: Marines had to retreat every single day at four pm 213 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: and foxholes or you know, put out the concertina wire 214 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: and the mines and all this and prepare for the night. 215 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: And that's when the Vietnamese came out. I saw guys 216 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: special forces Vietnamese. They were trained to spider walk through 217 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: these minefields, you know, like acrobats. They built replicas of 218 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: this and they knew how to like spider walk, clip 219 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: all the wires and then boom. Their buddies would come 220 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: and the Marines would be hunkered down. The guys on 221 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the perimeter might get shot, the guys inside, you know, 222 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: jangled nerves, and then when they came out in the morning, 223 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: they had to mind sweep the area again. The Marines 224 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: couldn't just get up and run out of their of 225 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: their sleeping quarters. They had to have mine sweepers. So 226 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, what, you didn't fight during the day, 227 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: he said, No, Ho Chi Minh said, the Americans have 228 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: surveillance during the day. Why would we go out during 229 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: the day and you guys had an air force. We 230 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: didn't have an air force, he said. We were sleeping 231 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: during the day, and it's hot as hell during the day, 232 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: so we let the Marines go out and sweat and 233 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: not find us, and then we came out at night 234 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: when it's easy to be successful. So I'll tell you, 235 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: mister son takes me to a battle site. Now, if 236 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: you listen to Americans, we think in terms of battles. 237 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: Rat cat, that cat. You know, thirty guys there and 238 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: thirty guys here, and we're fighting like a football game. 239 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: You know, thirty here, thirty there, boom boom boom. And 240 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: he said, I'll take you out to this battle. So 241 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: we go out. Well, the Americans landed with a helicopter 242 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: on a river bank and then they had to walk 243 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: along a trail on the river and go through a village. 244 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: And then the intelligence was was that there was VC 245 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: up in the hills after the village. So they walked 246 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: through the village and the village has the usual toothless 247 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: gramdma on grandpa's and little kids. Well that was the 248 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: intelligence net for the vietnamemes. Those grandmas were measured, were 249 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: memorizing every single This guy had a handgun, and that 250 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: guy was pointing his rifle best way, and the radio 251 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: man was in the fourth position, and they were memorizing everything. 252 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: So the marines go up into the hills. Well, the 253 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: VC they were looking for was hiding behind the village. 254 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: And then they came out and interviewed all the grandmas 255 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: and grandpa's and they got they got one fat. When 256 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: the Marines walked through the village, they walked with their 257 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: rifles pointed down. 258 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: James James Bradley is our guest. The book is called 259 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: Precious Freedom, a novel. He's the author of Flags of 260 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: Our Fathers more on Very Trouble in Vietnam Air Can 261 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: You Go? James Bradley is our guest. The book is 262 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: called Precious Freedom, a novel. He is the author of 263 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: Flags of Our Fathers. Jims, let me ask you a question. 264 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: I am a bulver in picking at scabs. 265 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: And. 266 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: Whether that is the deaths caused by the COVID virus, 267 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: for instance, or the lies about weapons of mass destruction. 268 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: And one of the things I find is that one 269 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: has to tread lightly. Let's take Vietnam for instance. We 270 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: love and respect and honor the people like your brother 271 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: who went off to war. Many of them didn't sign 272 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: up to go serve. Many of them were drafted. The 273 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 2: most recent the last time that happened in America. So 274 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 2: you really have some folks that are walking the streets 275 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: on Monday, and on Tuesday their ping pong ball comes 276 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: up and they're sent off to war. They were not 277 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: ready for this and certainly didn't want to go, but 278 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: they didn't flee. They didn't, you know, take deferments and 279 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 2: do all that. How do you navigate such an honest 280 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 2: conversation where you're doing what I think the scientific method 281 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: and good journalism, good investigation requires, and that is asking 282 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: tough questions, Because, as I would say, of a number 283 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: of our conflicts, it's not the problem of our boys. 284 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 2: It's the problem of our generals and our government putting 285 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 2: people in a bad situation. How do you navigate that 286 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 2: without I don't think you intend to dishonor Vietnam American 287 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 2: Vietnam veterans, So how do you navigate that? 288 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: I am trying to help the Vietnam veterans out. I'm 289 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: the this is this is here's a sad fact. I'm 290 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: the only American author that ever went to Vietnam and 291 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: asked the people who won the war, how did you win? 292 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I caddied for Vince Lombardi of the Green 293 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: Bay Packers. Bart starlived three doors down up at bass Lake, 294 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: and it was win or lose. And when you lost, 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: you studied. We looked at the films. How did we lose? Well? 296 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: The United States got kicked out of Vietnam, and we 297 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: never admitted why and had nothing to do with these 298 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: vets that were It had nothing to do with my 299 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: brother or your father. It had to do with our leadership. 300 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: And this is not me analyzing this. Commandant David Shupe 301 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: US Marine Commandant David Shup Medal of Honor winner TARROWA 302 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: tarrowa World War Two Medal of Honor. He was giving 303 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: speeches all over the United States in the nineteen sixties 304 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: saying Ho Chi Minh has a plan to beat us. 305 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: They're fighting that night. We can never beat the Vietnamese 306 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: because they'll spend twenty years in this war. They have 307 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: nowhere to go. And that David Shoop you'll see in 308 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: the book, is tirelessly saying LBJ and all these guys 309 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: know that we can't win. He said, this is not 310 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: James Bradley, this is Commandant Medal of Honor David Shupe 311 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: saying this war Vietnam, John is not worth the life 312 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: of one American man. We should get out of there immediately. 313 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: They're line to you. The leadership, the leadership of America, 314 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: including the press, screwed the American veterans. And that's the 315 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: purpose of this book. I went and said, how did 316 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: you win? And I was shocked that David Shupe and 317 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: other guys were technically, strategically, tactically giving speeches about how 318 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: we knew we couldn't win. But there were some top guys, 319 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, let's talk about Brown and Root 320 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: and Haliburton and Bell Helicopter and Lyndon Johnson getting rich. 321 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: You know. Johnson said to the Joint chiefs of Staff 322 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: after they offed JFK. At nineteen sixty three Christmas party 323 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: in the White House, Johnson's said to the Joint chiefs 324 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: of Staff, you give me my election, and I'll give 325 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: you your war. They wanted war because it was just going 326 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: to last a few months, and it was going to 327 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: test out some fancy weapons, and they had no idea 328 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: that they were going to toss in the blood of 329 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, the guys I went to high school with, 330 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: and I'm pissed about it, and somebody should be held 331 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: to account. And it's not the veterans. They were put 332 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: in an impossible situation and this is not again. You know, 333 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,479 Speaker 1: you can say James Bradley, never served, doesn't know what 334 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: he's talking about. Maybe I don't, but Commandant David shupe 335 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: knew what he was talking about, and he said, this 336 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: is a loser before we go in. 337 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I guess our next question is I'm 338 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 2: going to ask a question is going to see like 339 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: a stupid question. But I assure you I've spent a 340 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: lot of time pondering this, studying this in your heart 341 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: of hearts, Why do you think we were really there? 342 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: We were there because to the Vietnam War. You know, 343 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: if you look at ken Burns and Walter Cronkite and 344 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: all these propaganda things. Kennedy was juggling some hot balls 345 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: and then it exploded in Johnson and all of a sudden, 346 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, Tonking, No, no, no, no, no, Harry Truman 347 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: started the Vietnam War. We sent the equipment that was 348 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: out in the Pacific to Vietnam, and in August of 349 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, before even Japan surrendered all that equipment 350 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: out there, Charles Degaull said, we have to reassert France 351 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: in Vietnam. And Harry Truman, you know, where's Vietnam. I 352 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: don't know anything about Asia. I'm Harry Truman. And DeGaulle said, 353 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: there's communists out there and you gotta get him. So 354 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: we supported France. Well, who was the head of the 355 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: Congressional Committee, the Naval Affairs Committee, that moved that equipment 356 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five out to Vietnam. It was a 357 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: guy called Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam War began in 358 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: August of nineteen forty five, not nineteen sixty four. We 359 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: were supplying ninety percent of the French costs of the 360 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: Vietnam War. People say, oh, Vietnamization. Let's see Vietnamization. That's 361 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon nineteen seventy No, no, no, no, no. I'm 362 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: looking at a photo of Richard Nixon in nineteen fifty 363 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: three in Vietnam when the French were losing and they said, 364 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: we have this plan called Vietnamization, and Nixon and Eisenauer 365 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: said great, We'll give you all the money you need. 366 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: And then the French blew it at Den Ben Pew 367 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four. We fought the Vietnam War for 368 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: thirty years, nineteen forty five to nineteen seventy five. 369 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 2: Isn't Dan Bin Fou where the French were absolutely routed. 370 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was all I interviewed guys. You'll see 371 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: in the book the Vietnamese winners are jumping over crates 372 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: at Den Ben Puke, and it says in the USA, Oh, 373 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: that was when we were told the French were doing. 374 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 2: That, right, right, No, no, I give you that. I think 375 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 2: that is consistent. I think that tracks whatever they said 376 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 2: because there was an interest for the United States in 377 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 2: keeping a colonial power in Southeast Asia at that time. 378 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: And the French were trying to manage the last remnants 379 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 2: of their empire. They were also having they also had 380 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: a lot of trouble uh In in Africa at the 381 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: same time. Uh And and our involvement to a limited extent, 382 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: not in a little less than Lynn Lee's in World 383 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: War Two, but there's no doubt that there was involvement. 384 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: James Bradley is our guest. His book is called Precious 385 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 2: Freedom a Novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers. 386 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: And we will continue our conversation with him for one 387 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: more segment coming Home. 388 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: Joey Kung Alma, Michael Bay, Good Show on Baklum. 389 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: James Bradley's our guest. He's the author of Flags of 390 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 2: Our Fathers. He's written a new book about the Vietnam 391 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: War called Precious Freedom, a Novel. James, I want to 392 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: get into a couple of things that are not as 393 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: much in the book, But about the book, I've talked 394 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: a little bit about the Vietnam veterans. I have a 395 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: number of Vietnam veterans in our listening audience. Have you 396 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 2: have you tested this with Vietnam. I'm just curious how 397 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 2: what the response of Vietnam veterans has been. It's clear 398 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 2: to me your intentions are pure, but I'm just curious 399 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: what it's been. 400 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: It's been. They finally know the truth. It's sad to 401 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: say I'm the only American author that went to Vietnam 402 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: and said, how did you win? The American narrative if 403 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: you read two hundred books on Vietnam, it's boy. I 404 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: went there and we did all the stuff, and boy, 405 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: it was really but they don't get to the bottom line, 406 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, but we lost. It didn't work out. So 407 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: we were doing all these technically amazing things. The vets 408 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: performed well, the soldiers and marines performed like they were trained. 409 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: But if you put them in a situation where they 410 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: cannot win, and you know that in advance, these guys, 411 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: we should burn down the LBJ library. Macnamara should be 412 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: dug up. If you read this book and our Vietnam vets, 413 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: veterans should be honored. The Vietnam vets who have looked 414 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: at this book love it because they finally know. Oliver 415 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: Stone says about this book and on the back cover, 416 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: he says, if we knew back in the sixties, what 417 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: James Bradley has revealed American mothers would have never sent 418 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: their sons to Iraq and Afghanistan. This twenty years has 419 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: screwn around thirty years in Vietnam, twenty years in Afghanistan. 420 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: These are deaths, these are limbs that are lost. And 421 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: it's not the fault of the fighting men and women. 422 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: It is the fault of our leadership. And that includes 423 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: the media. And you'll see it in the book. How 424 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: is it possible that a Medal of Honor winner is 425 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: giving speeches in America? He said, the Joint Chiefs we 426 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: looked at Vietnam and we said, there's absolutely no way 427 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: we can win. So what Johnson did is cleaned out 428 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: that Joint Chiefs of Staff and got a bunch of 429 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: guys who would agree to go in Vietnam. He had 430 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: to pump up, you know, those suitcases of cash. And 431 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: there's many other reasons. 432 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: The book is precious freedom and novel by the author 433 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: of Flags of Our Fathers, James Bradley. You made a 434 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: reference in our first segment today and I want to explore. 435 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: You. 436 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: You bundled the Cia kin Burns and Walter Kronkite. I 437 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 2: have a very very healthy skepticism of a lot of 438 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 2: people who are supposed at historians or newsmen. And I 439 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 2: think that the CIA has caused us many problems abroad 440 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: and lied to the American people in order to still 441 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: be able to get young men to go and fight 442 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: their wars. What was your meaning behind ken Burns and 443 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: Walter Kronkite? And the suggestion was that not only were 444 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 2: they not perhaps being honest about what was happening in Vietnam, 445 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: but that they were reading from a CIA script. I 446 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 2: don't want to put words in your mouth. That's the 447 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: sense I got. 448 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: Well, CIA script. It's like, if you want to be 449 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: in the game, you got to play with these guys. 450 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: I mean the ken Burns thing. I was living in 451 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: Vietnam when when that documentary came out, and it was 452 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 1: like hot peals of lofts. The American vets watching it 453 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: with me in Vietnam. Most of the so called Vietnamese 454 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: telling the truth and the ken Burns documentary are CIA connected. 455 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: There's a woman whose husband was you know, working you know, Bob. 456 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it would take twenty minutes to do the 457 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: names and the connections. But ken Burns flew in and 458 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: out of Vietnam. You know who was in the editing 459 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: room with Ken Burns, the John McCain's ghostwriter, Mark Salter. Yeah, Ken, 460 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: you can say this. Yeah, Senator McCain approves this and that. 461 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: You know, how are you going to get on PBS 462 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: public broadcasting system supported by the United States government and 463 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: tell the truth about Vietnam? If they told the truth 464 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: about Vietnam on PBS, they'd burned down the LBJ library. 465 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: This is three to five million Vietnamese dead, fifty eight 466 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: thousand Americans on the wall. There's three hundred thousand wounded 467 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Americans wheelchairs, crutches, and the military knew. The top ranks 468 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: of the military had all agreed, well, we can't win 469 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: this puppy, but we'll just throw the American boys into 470 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: the Charnel House here and see what happens. 471 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: It is very troubling to me to think how many 472 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: people of my father's generation and now over the last 473 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: particularly last twenty five years. You know, I go back 474 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: to as late as as the botched Afghanistan would draw 475 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 2: and I think of how many men with the best 476 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: of intentions from small towns all across Texas, the South 477 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: and the country who when we were attacked on nine 478 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: to eleven or when they see the news of America 479 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: being attacked, their inner sheep dog comes out, and they 480 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: are willing to give no greater love hath any man 481 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 2: than it laid down his life for a friend. They're 482 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 2: willing to give the one thing that they have, which 483 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: is their life, for their country. And I think we 484 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 2: should honor that by never taking them up on it 485 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: unless it is absolutely necessary. And I see these conflicts 486 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: that are started on false premises, and by the way, 487 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 2: I think you can make mistakes. I think we learned 488 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,959 Speaker 2: a lot of things in Vietnam that maybe were different 489 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: than we expected. But I think you owe a duty 490 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: to these young men and their commitment and their sacrifice 491 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: to say, all right, let's pull back. When Nixon begins 492 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: bombing in Cambodia, because it's a parallel path way without 493 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 2: congressional authority, that is an overstep on a level that 494 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 2: I don't see any way you come back from. You 495 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: are the complete imperial presidency at that point, and if 496 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 2: Congress does not rain that in, I don't care Domino 497 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: theory or not, Kissinger or whatever or not. That to 498 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: me is a very very bad moment. 499 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: There. My dad fought on the Jima. There were colonels 500 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: in front of him. There were colonels getting shot, getting 501 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: blown up, you know, leading. Come on, boys, they were 502 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: right out in front Vietnam. The colonels were in air 503 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: conditioned helicopters. You know, you boys, go out there. The 504 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: colonels weren't leading. The military changed, Michael, after World War Two. 505 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: It's a different military now. There was like one I mean, 506 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: look at the general failures we have. Now, there was like, 507 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, like twelve generals running the World War two 508 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: something like that, five stars, you know, I mean, I'm 509 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: getting off on the statistics. But now there's all sorts 510 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: of generals and admirals all over I have been to 511 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: the bases all over the world. We've got you know, 512 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: a thousand bases with burger kings and schools and you know, 513 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: paved roads and you know, people taking care of apartment buildings. 514 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,719 Speaker 1: We have an empire. When my dad fought, it was 515 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: the War Department, and we knew how to do it. 516 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: And there were generals getting killed and colonel's getting killed 517 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: leading from the front Vietnam. No, they pushed those boys 518 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: out there and said you do it. 519 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And that was James Bradley. I'm up 520 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: against the clock. I appreciate your time, okay. He's the 521 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 2: author of Flags of Our Fathers. His newest book is 522 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 2: Precious Freedom, a novel about the Vietnam War.