1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: What if everything you thought you knew about autism and 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: mental health wasn't the full story. Today's conversation might change 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,079 Speaker 1: the way you see it. Welcome to Why Not Me? 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: Embracing autism and mental health Worldwide, where real conversations and 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: lived experiences inspire understanding and hope. I'm Tony mantor this 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: is where understanding begins. If this kind of conversation matters 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: to you, then follow the show so you don't miss 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: what comes next. Joining us today is doctor Adi Jaffi, 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: a UCLA trained psychologist, ted X speaker in one of 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: the most forward thinking voices in the addiction space today. 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: He's also the author of Unhooked, a book that pushes 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: back on the traditional labels and stigma surrounding addiction and 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: ask a very powerful question, what if addiction isn't a 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: disease but a deeply human response to pain, trauma, and 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: unmet needs. He doesn't just study addiction, He's lived it. 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: In this conversation, we're going to explore what it really 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: means to break free from destructive patterns, why willpower alone 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: isn't just the answer, and how understanding the why behind 19 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: behavior might be the key to lasting change. It's a 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: great story, so let's dig into it. Thanks for joining 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: us today. 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you having me man, Oh. 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: It's my pleasure. Let's start out with what you do 24 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: and how you got there? 25 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: Sure, I mean nowadays I do a lot, but I speak, 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: I coach and consult especially executives and professionals, and then 27 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: I run a company called ignited igntd that offers mental 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: health and addiction support for people through software and we 29 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: created So that's my hope, my attempt at being able 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: to give help to people who can't afford high end 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: care and just really need support and so you know, 32 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: think mobile based. We've been doing that since twenty eighteen, 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: so before COVID and everybody went online, and I have 34 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: helped thousands and thousands of people who struggle anything from 35 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: depression and anxiety all the way to addictions. 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: So what is your focus? You have a great spectrum there, 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: as we all know. You can have one end of 38 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: the spectrum to the other, but in the middle is 39 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: probably where you'll land and what you'll focus on. So 40 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: what is that focus or in your case, maybe specialty? 41 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good call. I mean my main focus now 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: is on trying to help people who are struggling with 43 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: where they are find a way to a better place. 44 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: And that takes a ton of different approaches, and it 45 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: depends on the client and money, time availability, all those 46 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: things right in terms of what they can do. But yes, 47 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: that is the central theme to everything. 48 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. What are some of the 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: more common issues that you face on a daily basis? 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one of the main most common issues 51 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: is people are used to behaving the way they used 52 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: to behaving, and they've been doing it, oftentimes for decades, 53 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: and so even when they want you know, we've all 54 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 2: heard the thing, right, if you keep doing the same 55 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: thing and keep getting the same results, right, that's easy 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: to say, really really hard to change your habits. I 57 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: was actually just leading a group yesterday and talking you know, 58 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: there's so many books on habit change. Atomic habitage is 59 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: obviously one of the ones that really comes up for people, 60 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: but that comes from a book called Tiny Habits by 61 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: doctor bj Fogg and other books on behavior change, and 62 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: so people are often preoccupied with hout to change their behavior, 63 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: but they don't really want to change their behavior. They 64 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: want to change their life, they want to change their outcomes. 65 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 2: So on the executive professional side, they may look like 66 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: somebody who feels like they want to advance more. They 67 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: want to move up in their career. They want to 68 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: make more money, you get a bigger title, be in 69 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: charge of more. But there's something they keep banging ahead 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: against the wall. They can't reach that level or it's 71 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: going too slowly for them. On the addiction side, it 72 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: could be somebody who you know, they've been over drinking 73 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: for fifteen twenty years. They know it's a problem, they 74 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: know it's caused them issues, it's causing issues to people 75 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: around them, and they can't seek to get their head 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: around it. But you know, for so many people that 77 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: I've worked with on the family front, it's they keep 78 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: gagging fights with their wife or their husband, and they 79 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: can't get themselves out of it. I look at all 80 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: those things through the same lens, and that is you're 81 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: stuck in a habit. It's a loop, it keeps playing. 82 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: In order to get the results you want, you've got 83 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: to be able to change their behavior. So when I 84 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: talk about in my book, and you know this is 85 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: my most recent book on Hooked talk about is the 86 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: way to get that change is not actually to try 87 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: to change the behavior itself, although that's a small part 88 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: of it. It's to understand what is driving the behavior 89 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: underneath the surface. Go change that, and then you'll get 90 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: the changes you want in your life. 91 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: When people think about addiction, lots of times they think 92 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: about substance abuse. When you really get into what addiction is, 93 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: lots of times it's a reason to go to something 94 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: to get away from something. How do you approach that 95 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: When you get into that type of scenario, you can't 96 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: depend on something else to fix it. Sometimes you have 97 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: to take control yourself. 98 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: You have to fix it yourself. You have to confront 99 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: the situation that you're in and be honest about it. 100 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: I'll tell you a story. It ended up being I 101 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: don't think in this book, it's in the previous book, 102 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: but I had a woman who came to me and 103 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: she had been struggling with drinking. And when she walked 104 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: through the door, it was the classic line, Hey, I'm 105 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: an alcoholic. I've been trying to slow down or stop 106 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: drinking for a number of years now. It hasn't work. 107 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: My husband is threatening to leave, et cetera, et cetera. 108 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,679 Speaker 2: She could kind of, you know, tell the quick essential story, 109 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 2: three kids, Orange County, well off drinking soccer mom. Right, Well, 110 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: we started working together and within three days of working together, 111 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 2: it turned out her marriage has been an unhappy marriage 112 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: for about the last fifteen years. She and her husband 113 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: met in college, and she didn't realize that when she 114 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: got married and once the kid came, she would have 115 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: to give up her life. So she was on her 116 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: way to becoming a lawyer, gave that up to raise 117 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: the kids. Now she's stuck at home, really frustrated. She 118 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: never made anything of her life on a daily basis. 119 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: Her identity was giving her struggles. And then every time 120 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: she interacted with her husband, who was a traveling salesman, 121 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: so he was gone five six days out of the week, 122 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: home for the weekend, back out on the road. And 123 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: then the relationship is a nightmare too. And I said 124 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: to her, I said, look, we're not going to be 125 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: able to help you drinking until we fix the way 126 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: you feel about your day to day life and fix 127 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: what's going on with the relationship. Because even if I 128 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: stopped you from drinking, you're going to go to something 129 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: else in order to fix the fact that you don't 130 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: like your life. And that's just an example of one 131 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: of thousands of stories that always follow will almost always 132 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: follow the same line, and that is, I'm really unhappy, 133 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: I'm miserable. I'm using fill in whatever the blank is 134 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: for you to deal with it. How can you help 135 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 2: me stop you with this through drinking, using porn, drugs, whatever. 136 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: And it always, like you said, it always goes back 137 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: Tony to figure it out. Well, what is the struggle? 138 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 2: What are you struggling with on a daily basis? What 139 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: is hurting you? What is making you anxious, angry, frustrated, 140 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: What is hurting your belief into yourself? What is you know, 141 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: removing your hope or a better world. We've got to 142 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: get to that, and once we solve that, we'll solve 143 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: the addiction. 144 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: Now, I'm sure you've heard this many times. People will say, well, 145 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: that comes down to personal responsibility. All that is is 146 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: a couple of words people use many times. I'm sure 147 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: people feel like they've lost control and they're trying to 148 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: gain that control back. So do you phrase it in 149 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: such a way that by taking control back, you are 150 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: actually taking your own personal responsibility back and hopefully that 151 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: makes them feel better In the end. 152 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: I want to answer that in a few different parts 153 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: if I can. There's certainly a ton of personal responsibility. 154 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: But all of us started in a place in the 155 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: world we had absolutely no control over our lives when 156 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: we were children. We didn't have a say, We didn't 157 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: have a say in where we were born, what we 158 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: did on a daily basis, what culture, what habits, what 159 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: world environment in our home we were born into right now, 160 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: for many of us, the environment was relatively safe and 161 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: maybe casually traumatizing and stressful, but not in a severe way. 162 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: But for a subset of people, and the subset I'm 163 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: talking about is fifteen and twenty percent of the population, 164 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: that's not true. They grew up in our version of 165 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: hell for that sub section. That's why I'm going to 166 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: answer this in a few different sections. For that section 167 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: of the population, they are fighting an uphill battle because 168 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 2: those experiences of childhood shifted the way that their brain 169 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: processes the world in a way that for many others 170 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: is unfathomable. I've never struggled with this, but I've dealt 171 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: with hundreds of clients who were sexually abused as children. 172 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: It's hard to only rest on personal responsibility when that 173 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: happened to you as a child, and you're also still 174 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: right the abuse happened ten, fifteen, twenty thirty years ago. 175 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: You unfortunately, it's not fair, but you, unfortunately are now 176 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: saddled with a ton of work to do to overcome 177 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: something you had no role in doing. 178 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very tough situation. 179 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: I favorite therapeutic kind of retreats environments that I went to. 180 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: The practitioners there had this saying that I really like, 181 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: which is everybody's guilty and nobody's to blame. What does 182 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: that mean? I'm here now. All the people will hurt 183 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: me in the past may be guilty of hurting me. 184 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: They have their own reasons. They tried whatever in their 185 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: distorted version of reality was the best. And I'm still 186 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: the one sitting here trying to change my life. They 187 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: can't do it for me. So it still falls in 188 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: line with what you were talking about, Tony. It's still 189 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: your responsibility, but you're saddled with this way. For many 190 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: of the rest of us, there's a version that I 191 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: want to answer, which is a much more subtle version 192 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: of what happens to those who've been heavily traumatized as kids. 193 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: Most people don't know this. You know, the way memories 194 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: and the way habits are formed in the brain is 195 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: biologically structural. What do I mean by that. There's this 196 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: concept and neuroscience called heavy and synopticity. It's the idea 197 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: that neurons have fired together, wire together. I literally ran 198 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: a group on this a couple of days ago in 199 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: my program. But so I want the labor an hour 200 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: long explanation of this. But the idea is this, when 201 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: you have parts in your brain that work together a lot, 202 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: they become more entrenched. They literally there's these things called dendrites. 203 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: Your neurons grow like these bigger, thicker roots to connect 204 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: areas of the brain that are regularly connected. It's literally 205 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: like the cable the wiring that is connected and becomes 206 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: thicker and better. 207 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's really interesting. Can you dive a little 208 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: deeper on that. 209 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: That happens for people and for things that happen regularly. 210 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: So habits that you have in your everyday life, they 211 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: become like physical structures in your brain. You can think 212 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: of it as a groove. Imagine like you walk through 213 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 2: the jungle, and if you walk the same path a 214 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: thousand times between your feet stopping on the ground and 215 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 2: the machete moving around and cutting down some trees. There's 216 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: now going to be a really clear path in the jungle. 217 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 2: Right now, Technically you could cross the jungle through other paths, 218 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: but this path is really clear, and you're going to 219 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: want to go through the clear path because it's easier. 220 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: That's what habits do in your brain. It is easier 221 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: to follow the same habitual route. So even for the 222 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: rest of us who don't have highly traumatized paths, the 223 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: way we learn to do things at a younger age 224 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: and through our development become soft, easy, automatic path And 225 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: when you decide that you want to change, you again 226 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: are now fighting against the built in physical mechanism. And 227 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: I try to explain that to people because so many 228 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 2: people get disturbed or anxious, resentful, upset that changing their 229 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: habits gets hard, and then they read a book like 230 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: Atomic Habits that says, hey, you know, just make the 231 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 2: hard things easier, make the easy things harder. Connect to 232 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: an identity of somebody who wants to change, and go 233 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: out there and do it, and they try and they fail. 234 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes failure is the path to success. 235 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: What I try to explain to a lot of people 236 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: is odds are you will fail multiple times in trying 237 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: to recreate a new route through your jungle. That's okay. 238 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: Next time, get back up, remake the commitment to try 239 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: to go down that new path. Over time, you can 240 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: forge another new path. Number one, Number two. There was 241 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 2: a massive disservice done to us a couple of decades 242 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 2: ago when this idea of a twenty one day habit 243 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: change thing became a reality. 244 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember that. 245 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: I think that's complete. BS. You don't change your habitage 246 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: one days. I don't know who picked that frickin' number. 247 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: It's like picked out of a half. The number of 248 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: days that takes to change a habit is totally variable. 249 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: You can start it as early as twenty some thirty days, 250 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: forty days like that's on the lowest end. It can 251 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: go up to a year or more. The average seems 252 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: to be more around sixty five seventy seventy five days. 253 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: And if you think about that, that's two and a 254 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: half months of war on something to change. I'll give 255 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: a stupid example, but it'll serve the purpose. I brush 256 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 2: my teeth with my right hand. If I want to 257 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: start being able to brush my teeth with my left hand, 258 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: for somewhere between a month to two to three months. 259 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to wake up every morning and remind 260 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: myself that the thing that feels natural and easy, which 261 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: is just doing this, is not what I'm doing today. 262 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to go do this and it feels awkward 263 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: and it's weird and I'm not covering my whole mouth. 264 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: But if I stick with it day after day after day, 265 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: two three months later, the thing that feels weird is 266 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 2: going to feel normal. And so what I really try 267 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: to enforce for all my clients, No, there's a process. 268 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: So in the book, there's a path in which I 269 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: help people understand where is my behavior broke? Where am 270 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: I screwing up? And then there's another process, a loop 271 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: that I take them through which helps them understand how 272 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: to change it. I call it the eat loop. The explore, accept, transform, explore, 273 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: identify where the loop is broken except and there's a 274 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: process for acceptance. But you can't change where you haven't 275 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: accepted about yourself, because then you're fighting an internal battle. 276 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: So acceptance means reducing shame about it. It means having 277 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: compassion forgiving you yourself and others who have brought you 278 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 2: to that place, and once you get to that place, 279 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: you're ready for transformation. And transformation is normally, not always, 280 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: but normally less about stopping the bad behavior and more 281 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: about replacing it with better alternative behaviors. And there are 282 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 2: a whole set of different ways to get that done. 283 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up a shame part of it. 284 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: That's a big thing that people really don't think about. 285 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: If you took the shame out of whatever it might be, addiction, 286 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: put a term toward anything, how would that change the 287 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: way that people perceive themselves and perceive the world. 288 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 3: To help make that change. 289 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: I think shame is one of the most insidious emotions 290 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: we have. It plays a role, right if you think 291 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: back to tribal times and when we lived in small 292 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: communities and you know, twenty thirty fifty people. You know, 293 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: shame is the idea that I am different, less than 294 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 2: the people around me. And the different part is what matters, right, 295 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: because if my insights don't match what you need from me, 296 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: I could get ostracized, right, I could be shunned. Nowadays, 297 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 2: if I'm shunned, less of a big deal. There's a 298 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: huge community out here. I'll go find some other friends 299 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: think evolutionarily. If my community kicks me out, I'm on 300 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: my own out there in the wilderness, I may die. 301 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: So there's a real need to belong, and shame makes 302 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: you feel like you don't belong. I have a really 303 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: weird example. I hope this lands for the listeners, but 304 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: I just went through it in a group. We were 305 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: actually unpacking this in a group. I was just leading. 306 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 2: And I believe all of us have unhealthy beliefs about 307 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: ourselves that create little moments of shame. There's big shame 308 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: right like again, if you were molested as a child, 309 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: A lot of people have shame around that. I'm not 310 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: even talking about that. Shame very crucial, very important, very 311 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: very problematic, But there are these little micro moments where 312 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: we feel shame. So we were unpacked people's unhelpful beliefs 313 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: about themselves. And this one woman who's very high functioning, 314 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: but she said she had a belief to share, and 315 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: the initial belief she shared that was upsetting to her 316 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 2: when she thought about it was that if she has 317 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: a request of others, if she needs something from others, 318 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: they may judge her. I think some of us can 319 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: understand that, right, if you need help from other people. 320 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: They may look down to you, okay, but I wanted 321 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: more information, so Tony, I asked her, Hey, can you 322 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: give me an example, because it sounds like you're talking 323 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: about something pretty specific. And she started getting embarrassed. That 324 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: shame started building up. 325 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: You know. 326 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: She thought about it for a second and she said, yeah, 327 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: you know, the other day I had to go return 328 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: something that I bought at the store. She wanted credit back, 329 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: she wanted a refund for it. You could see her, 330 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: you know, blushing and getting embarrasseds thinking about this moment. 331 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: But she said, I thought to myself that as I 332 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: walk into the store with this item that I wanted 333 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: to return. She started getting anxious just thinking about it 334 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: because she thought, you know, the clerk at the store 335 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: would judge her, maybe the people standing around would judge her. Now, 336 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: I know that's really small, but think about the sort 337 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: of belief somebody must have about themselves and the world 338 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: to think that if I bought something and then I 339 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: want to return it because I don't like it, people 340 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: might look down at me. In what other places in 341 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: her life? Does she not ask for what she needs? 342 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: Does she not say what she wants to say, does 343 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: she not raise her hand in the class or tell 344 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: somebody she's in a disagreement with that she disagrees with them, 345 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: because the fear shame is that if I do this thing, 346 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: I will be different than I will be laughed at, 347 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: I will be looked down at. Right now, I think 348 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: most people listening right now have had at least a 349 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 2: couple of experiences in their lives where they can relate 350 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: to feeling like people are going to look down at you. 351 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: The fear and the feeling is semi natural. If you 352 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: start stopping yourself from doing things in the world because 353 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: of that feeling, or if you start having to drink 354 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: or use drugs or in some other way escape the feeling, 355 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: that's what we develop some serious problem. I always used 356 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: to have a lot of social anxiety, and so I 357 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: would have to get really drunk before I would go 358 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: to events because I didn't want to be judged. But 359 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: the judgment was happening in my own head, right So 360 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: that's where a shame, I think comes in the moment 361 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: we remove And it's funny as we get older, we 362 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: care less about it. Right when I was fourteen eighteen 363 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: twenty five, I really cared what people thought about me. 364 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: I'm almost fifty. I'm not going to say I don't 365 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: care at all what people think about me, but I 366 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: don't care about it all that much, and that provides 367 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: a lot of relief so that I can act in 368 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: ways that are more more aligned with who I want 369 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: to be. 370 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: I think what you're describing really comes down to a 371 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: sense of personal comfort within yourself. When you're younger, you 372 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: tend to be more focused on what others think, trying 373 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: to fit in, trying to belong, trying to meet expectations. 374 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: But as you get older, something begins to shift. You 375 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: have more comfort in your own skin, more confident in 376 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: who you are, and less dependent on outside validation. You 377 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: reach a point where you can be completely alone and 378 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: feel at peace, or you can stand in the middle 379 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: of a thousand people and still do exactly what feels 380 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: right to you without worrying about judgment. It's like you 381 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: create your own space, your own sense of belonging wherever 382 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: you are. What you said makes a lot of sense, 383 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: but the truth is getting to that place isn't easy 384 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: for everyone. 385 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: It's a good to get there for some people, definitely 386 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: difficult to speed up that process. You know, we didn't 387 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: talk about it much, but I went through a lot, 388 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: and not that early in life, right, I was in 389 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: my mid to late twenties, early thirties, but including my 390 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: own addiction story, getting arrested, spending time in jail, by 391 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: my late twenties early thirties, I was confronted with a 392 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 2: reality which was parts of my life were going to 393 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: make people feel uncomfortable because I'd sold drugs, I'd used drugs, 394 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: I'd gone to jail, I had nine felonties on my record. 395 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: You know, everything is double sided, right, Everything is good 396 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: and bad and an interesting way. The experience was negative, 397 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 2: but I had to figure out how to live in 398 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: a world where you know what, Tony. I knew for 399 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: a fact some people will judge me, and I had 400 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 2: to be in some moments where somebody listened to my 401 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: story and they just didn't want to spend time with 402 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: me anymore because they didn't trust me. I could play 403 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 2: the victim, or I could understand, Hey, you know, I 404 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: understand that for somebody who's never lived on the side 405 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: of the tracks that I lived on and didn't do 406 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: the things that I've done. Sitting next to a nine 407 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 2: time felon there's been in jail may be uncomfortable, and 408 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: they may just not want that. So I had to 409 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: play this game with myself of judging myself less because 410 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 2: I'd been there and I made it out, and now 411 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: I was trying to live in normal life, or my 412 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: version of normal anyway. But then Tony, I learned not 413 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 2: to judge them as well, because what's right for me 414 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: does not have to be right for everybody else. We 415 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 2: all need to discover our version of what works for us. 416 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 2: And again, for people who are stuck in depression and 417 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 2: anxiety and addiction, or in any other version of being 418 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 2: malcontent with their own experience in life, some part of 419 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: it may be external, but a lot of it is internal. 420 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 2: A lot of it is their own judgment of the 421 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: experience and that they don't feel like they're getting what 422 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: they want out of live. 423 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: How do you help people move beyond their preconceptions, especially 424 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: when what they believe turns out to be completely different 425 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: from reality. How do you present your lived experience in 426 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: a way that allows them to see the value in 427 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: it so they can begin to lower those internal walls 428 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: and become more open to understanding. 429 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 2: Let me just say that not everybody needs the same thing. 430 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 2: So the way that I do it is not the 431 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: right way for everybody. We've all seen that, David Goggins 432 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: kind of you know, motivation by Marine Corps. You know, 433 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: get up off your butt and do what I told 434 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: you kind of a version. Some people need that, by 435 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: the way, and it works really really well for them. 436 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: That's not my version. So the way I do it, 437 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: the way I go about it is by trying to 438 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: actually understand the person's path so that I can mirror 439 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 2: back to them the lesson you just said, because you 440 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: said something really important, which was, how do you get 441 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: somebody essentially who doesn't believe in themselves or only looks 442 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: of darkness, only looks at what's wrong. How do you 443 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 2: get them to understand that their experience is actually motivational, hopeful, 444 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: et cetera. Right, easy to say, hard to do, man 445 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: hard to do, because when somebody has always looked at 446 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: what doesn't work, there's this concept in the brain. It's 447 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: called a confirmation bias. Their brain is now trained to 448 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 2: look at what's broken. And in a way like I'm 449 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, you know, you've had this podcast for a 450 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 2: long time. In a way, if you wake up in 451 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: the morning and think about all the things that aren't working. 452 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: You may be really good at achieving things because you'll 453 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: be there the first thing in the morning to fix 454 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: the thing that didn't work, and you'll spend all night 455 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: up in bed, unable to sleep because you can't stop 456 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: yourself from thinking about the forty things that need to 457 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 2: be fixed tomorrow in the twelve you didn't do right today. 458 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: You're constantly trying to make things better because you can't 459 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 2: calm down until they're perfect. But they're never perfect, So 460 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: in a way that might be debilitating for you, but 461 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: it might actually cause high achievement. 462 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 463 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: I call that the comfort zone. People will stay there 464 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: because they feel safe. The truth is, if you never 465 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: step outside that comfort zone, you're never going to grow. 466 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: You're never going to take the risks that might push 467 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: you forward or even knock you down. Life is always 468 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: going to be hills and valleys. Some days you feel great, 469 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: others not so great. Sometimes a bad day turns into 470 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: a bad week, then it starts to feel like everything 471 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: is going wrong. After enough of those moments, you get 472 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: to the point where I can't keep doing this, Maybe 473 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: it's time to give up. Then sometimes It only takes 474 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: one small moment, one sliver of hope to break through 475 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: that wall, and if you can grab onto that, it 476 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: can shift everything, because in the end, it's not just 477 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: the circumstances holding people back, it's the mindset. 478 00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 3: And once that's. 479 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: Starts to change, that's when people can begin to move 480 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: forward and create again. 481 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the way I say that, I love that. 482 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: That's so true. The way I always talk about that is, 483 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 2: you know, there's that saying we make plans and God laughs. 484 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: In case everybody listening to this doesn't already know this, 485 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure you do. But we have zero control over 486 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 2: what happens in the world. Zero. We barely control what 487 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: we do, and this is hard for a lot of 488 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: people to believe or understand or just accept. Even though 489 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: we control what we do, we rarely control the outcome 490 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: of what happens when we do it right. Yes, there's 491 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: the story I use in my program, my online program 492 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: that when I first heard it was such a good 493 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: example of this. I'm old enough to remember Queen Latifa. 494 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 2: Do you remember Quen Latifa? Oh yeah, yeah, all right, perfect. 495 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: There's so many people that are too young listening right now, 496 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: probably for this, but go look her und Queen Latifa 497 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: came from a very poor neighborhood. Mom had nothing. I 498 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 2: think her mom was a school teacher. I don't remember 499 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: this is exactly, but poor family, poor family, had nothing. 500 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 2: You know, she started rapping, got famous with her little group, 501 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 2: then started producing. She made it. She made money, and 502 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: one of her biggest joys having money was being able 503 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: to give back to her family that didn't have much. 504 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: So she got I think she got her MoMA house first, 505 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: but then afterwards, I want to say, for his eighteenth birthday, 506 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: she got her brother this bike that he had been 507 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: dreaming of, motorcycle that was like a Suzuki GSXR nine 508 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 2: one thousand or six hund or something. Anyway, the bike 509 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 2: that he had been He had posters of this bike 510 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: on his freaking wall. Right, she bought him his dream bike. 511 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: He killed himself on it two months later. Two months 512 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 2: she got everything she wanted in life. She gave her 513 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 2: brother everything he wanted in life, and the gift that 514 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 2: she gave him killed her, killed him. You know, you 515 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: look at that and you go, damn. You know, I'm 516 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: damned if I do. I'm damned if I don't. When 517 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: I was broke. I couldn't get him the bike he wanted, 518 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 2: and he was sad about it. When I made all 519 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: the money in the world, I got in the bike, 520 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: he died on it. We do not control what happens 521 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: in the world. And for me the moment I started 522 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 2: realizing this, because when I was younger, I was stupid 523 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: and I thought I did control what happened in the world, 524 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: and so I was always looking for the best way 525 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 2: to control it. Once this dawned on me, the amount 526 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: of relief. Some people have a really hard time with this. 527 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: For me, it provided a massive amount of relief, because 528 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 2: here's the thing. If I already don't control what happens 529 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 2: in the world, and the way I look at it is, 530 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: we only have a couple of options. We can just 531 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: give up control and just wake up every morning and 532 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 2: not do anything because the world is going to do 533 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: whatever it's going to do anyway. Or we can just 534 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: show up and do our damn best every single moment, 535 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 2: because then I'm giving everything I can and the rest 536 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: I leave up the chance, which I was going to 537 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,239 Speaker 2: have to leave up the chance anyway. And so the 538 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: way I try to get to people is to say look, 539 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 2: you did your best until this moment. It's just that 540 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: you can change what your best means moving on. I 541 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: love you. Know you said something essentially, but you could 542 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: have a whole bad week, man. I was. I was 543 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 2: just in that place three days ago. Every day I 544 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: was talking to my wife on the phone. It almost 545 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: ended when the right front wheel on my new truck 546 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: was this close to falling off. 547 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 3: Wow. 548 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 2: And the reason it was this close to falling off 549 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 2: was because I bought some land. It's just land, there's 550 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: nothing on it. So I camped on it the night before, 551 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: and apparently sometime from the moment I parked it to 552 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: the moment I left, I was there for about twenty 553 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 2: four hours. Somebody stole four out of six bolts out 554 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 2: of my right front tire. I realized it just in 555 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: time before the wheel fell off. I was late to 556 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 2: a meeting. I was already tired because I've been up 557 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: all night like in this camping area, and it was 558 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: already a hard week, like you said, Tony, And I 559 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: remember I was talking to my wife and this thing 560 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 2: dawned on me. I said, you know what, I'm just 561 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 2: happy I'm not falling apart while this is happening because 562 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: day after day after day, it seems like everything is 563 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: harder than it needs to be. 564 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 3: It is, there's no doubt about that. For sure. 565 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: It's not just our lives now, it's what's going on 566 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: in the world. The world is an upside down mode 567 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: that it has never been. Yeah, with the world the 568 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: way it is creates a lot of stress on people, 569 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: and that stress is in so many different levels. Then 570 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: when you combine the stress that's going on in the world, 571 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: combine with what's going on in your little part of 572 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: the world, then with everything that's going on, it just 573 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: compounds it. And people say, why do I even try? 574 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: Well, I even try. 575 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So somewhere deep down you have to find that 576 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: motivation to keep moving forward because if you don't have control, 577 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: give it your best and see what happens exactly. 578 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 2: And by the way, that's a big understanding shift. That's 579 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: a big perspective shift for a lot of people, right 580 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: because if everything is going sideways and I don't control 581 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: whether it's going to go up or down at any 582 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: point in time, all I can do is my best 583 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: is the way I look at it. Now. Here's the 584 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 2: other thing that I think is important for a lot 585 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: of people to remember, whether you like it or not, 586 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 2: whether you like hearing this or not. We need the 587 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 2: bad times, We need the downs because it's only in 588 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: comparison to the downs that the highs feel good. 589 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. 590 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: If everything worked out every moment of every day, whether 591 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 2: you think about it or not, right now, whether you 592 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: understand it or not, whether you believe it or not, 593 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: right now, you would get so bored of life. You 594 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: would get so bored. Like imagine if every single person 595 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 2: you asked out said yes, and every single thing you 596 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: wanted to buy you could have, and everything you tasted 597 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: was the best thing you've ever tasted in your life, 598 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: and every show you saw was the most interesting show 599 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: you saw. You'd love the first week, the first month 600 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: might be exciting. By the end of the first year, 601 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 2: nothing would matter anymore. 602 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 3: That is so true. 603 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 2: And by the way, the reason I know this because 604 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 2: I've never been I've never gotten to live through that life. 605 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: But the reason I know this is I've worked with 606 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: a lot of people who made a ton of money. 607 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: And some of them made a ton of money because 608 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: they sold a company. I'm talking for hundreds of millions 609 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: of dollars, right So they went from working their butts 610 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 2: off every day, slaving, slaving, slaving, maybe being comfortable, but 611 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: not being rich by any stretch of the imagination, and 612 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, their bank account has nine figures 613 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: in it. They can do anything they want, Tony. Yeah, 614 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 2: they can fly anywhere, buy any plane, do anything they want. 615 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 2: You know what ends up happening pretty quickly. Yes, they 616 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: get bored, yah and frustrated because nothing is a challenge anymore. 617 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: And that's why these people start taking on massive world 618 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: challenges because nothing at the lower level becomes interesting anymore. 619 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 2: And I think we can adopt a learning from that, 620 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 2: and that is appreciate the difficult times because you'll remember 621 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: them when you're on the other side, and then compare 622 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: is how you'll know you're happy. 623 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: Tell us how people can get in touch with you, 624 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: find you, follow you so they can see what you're doing. 625 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So Unhooked is the recent book. 626 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: If you want to get that, it's on Amazon and 627 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 2: anywhere else you get it. I have a website called 628 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: a Djaffy dot com if you want to either work 629 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: with me or watch me speak or read any of 630 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: the stuff I've done and then I wore the hat. 631 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: IGNTD is the name of the company that offers up 632 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: very low cost help for people who struggle with mental 633 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: health and addiction twenty four to seven help. You can 634 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: literally go on right now, sign up for a very 635 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: very small price, and get the help you need. 636 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Well, this conversation hasn't been awesome. There 637 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: are so many things that we didn't even touch upon. 638 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: We could talk forever on this. It's been a pleasure 639 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 1: having your join us today. 640 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you, Yeah, thank you for all 641 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: the great, great examples and questions. It's been really fun. 642 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, Hey, sincere. Thank you 643 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: to our guests for sharing their journey with us today. 644 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: We appreciate their honesty, courage, and willingness to open their 645 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: heart in hopes of helping others. If today's conversation helped 646 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: you see the world a little differently, then we've accomplished 647 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: exactly what we set out to do. Until next time, 648 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself, 649 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: why not me?