WEBVTT - REWIND: Glynn Washington - The Worldwide Church of God

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<v Speaker 1>You're about to listen to one of our favorite episodes

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<v Speaker 1>of trust Me from July fourteenth, twenty twenty one, about

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<v Speaker 1>Glenn Washington's experiences growing up in the apocalyptic religion the

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<v Speaker 1>Worldwide Church of God. If you're new here, follow the

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<v Speaker 1>show so you don't miss the July thirtieth return of

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<v Speaker 1>trust Me on the Exactly Right Network. If you have

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<v Speaker 1>your own story of being in a cult or a

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<v Speaker 1>high control group, or if you've had an experience with

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<v Speaker 1>manipulation or abuse of power you'd like to share, leave

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<v Speaker 1>us a message on our hotline number at five one

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<v Speaker 1>three nine hundred two nine five.

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<v Speaker 2>Five, or shoot us an email at trust Me pod

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<v Speaker 2>at gmail dot com.

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<v Speaker 3>Trust Me, trust Me.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like a swat person.

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<v Speaker 3>I've never lived to you, and we never.

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<v Speaker 4>Have a live.

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<v Speaker 1>If you think that one person has all the answers,

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<v Speaker 1>don't Welcome to trust Me, the podcast about Colts, extreme

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<v Speaker 1>belief and the abusive power from two former members who've

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<v Speaker 1>actually experienced it.

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<v Speaker 5>I am Lola.

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<v Speaker 6>Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 1>Today, our guest is Glenn Washington, whose voice you may

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<v Speaker 1>have heard already because he hosts Public Radio's storytelling show

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<v Speaker 1>Snap Judgment, which is so good as well as the

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<v Speaker 1>podcasts Heaven's Gate and Spooked, and probably more so. Glenn

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<v Speaker 1>is here with us today because he actually grew up

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<v Speaker 1>in an apocalyptic religious cult called the Worldwide Church of God.

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<v Speaker 1>He's going to tell us about what it was like

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<v Speaker 1>believing that the world could end at any minute, the

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<v Speaker 1>special trips members of the church would go on to

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<v Speaker 1>intentionally blow a huge chunk of their income, and how

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<v Speaker 1>thanks to the group's white supremacist ideologies, he wasn't allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to date outside of his own race. He's also going

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<v Speaker 1>to tell us about the book that began to change

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<v Speaker 1>his thinking, the trip that solidified that change, and what

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<v Speaker 1>he believes now. Very excited to get into that, but

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<v Speaker 1>before we do, Dearest Megan, what is the cultiest thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's happened to you?

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<v Speaker 5>This week?

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<v Speaker 2>My boyfriend's mom started selling a like skincare line. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>it's called Rodin and Fields or something. Everybody knows what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, but I don't know what you're talking about,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm just going to act like I do.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a skincare line and she was like, you should

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<v Speaker 2>try it, and I was like, Okay, whatever, but I did, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and people keep saying up, my skin looks good and saying,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you using? And then I have to basically

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<v Speaker 2>give them like a cult spiel back.

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<v Speaker 5>Like a little little MLM.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'm like, well, it's this thing. You order it online.

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<v Speaker 2>You can get a discount if you'd pay the seventy

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<v Speaker 2>five dollars and like all the shit, and I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, this is so embarrassing.

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<v Speaker 6>I need to just say I'm using like something else.

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<v Speaker 5>Have you found them any customers yet?

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>You have?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, the great Yeah that's great. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>you're embedded in a pyramid scheme now exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>So that's cool.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pretty cool. Did anything as cult tea happen to

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<v Speaker 2>you this week?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this week I have been dealing with the past

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks. Actually, I've been dealing with some physical problems. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>health things, and they have to do with my bladder.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh tmi, a'all love me some TMI.

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<v Speaker 6>Why a flatter is sexy? They they touched the vaiba

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<v Speaker 6>to me?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, oh my god, yes they do touch the vagina

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a fucking nightmare. But as a result of

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<v Speaker 1>these issues, and as a result of having terrible health insurance,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, don't even get me started on the fucking

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<v Speaker 1>stupid healthcare system in America. But I have been unable

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<v Speaker 1>to see a competent doctor. And so now I'm like

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<v Speaker 1>in a place where I am feeling rather desperate and

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I am one hundred percent vulnerable in

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<v Speaker 1>this moment. I spoke to my friend's mom on the phone,

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<v Speaker 1>who's like a homeopathic.

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<v Speaker 5>Healer, which you know, is so.

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<v Speaker 1>Not something that I do. And if someone came up

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<v Speaker 1>to me and was like, Lola, I have the solution

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<v Speaker 1>for your thing. All you need is this five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>dollars program, I'd be like, I'm in.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm sold. I will join. Just make it stop, Just

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<v Speaker 5>someone make it stop.

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<v Speaker 6>Please. Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 5>That's where I'm at.

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<v Speaker 2>My old roommate, I remember once I came home and

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<v Speaker 2>she had all of these bottles of tequila and the

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<v Speaker 2>nice tequila, those like white and.

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<v Speaker 6>Blue bottle, weird bottles.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, And I was like, are you having a party,

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<v Speaker 2>And she was like, no, I went to a natural healer,

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<v Speaker 2>and she said, to cure my bladder infection, I need

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<v Speaker 2>to take a bath in tequila.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, that can't be true. You have

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<v Speaker 2>to not do it. But she did it and it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't go away.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, well that's I feel like generally what happens

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<v Speaker 1>when you see someone who's not a doctor.

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<v Speaker 5>Sometimes it's great.

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<v Speaker 1>Even actual doctors don't know what the fuck they're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about half of the time, which is what's especially maddening.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the true cultiest thing of the week. If

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<v Speaker 2>it was happening to men, there would be forty thousand cures.

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<v Speaker 6>It's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's happening to women. So they're like, we don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's weird. Figure it out.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know so many women who are struggling

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<v Speaker 1>with recurring chronic mystery diseases that science is just like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>needs more research.

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<v Speaker 2>You're imagining it probably stressed. Yeah, stop wiping from back

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<v Speaker 2>to front.

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<v Speaker 1>We're I'm like, oh, I am so fucking If another

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<v Speaker 1>doctor tells me that, I will scream. I know to

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<v Speaker 1>not I don't okay, not get disgusting, but we.

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<v Speaker 5>Know not to do that.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, we do.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, it's it's rough life over here, y'all. I

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<v Speaker 1>will survive. I'm a survivor. I'm gonna make it. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a survivor, keep on surviving.

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<v Speaker 6>Beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful, right, beautiful Dusty's child lyrics.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, how about we start talking to Glenn.

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<v Speaker 6>Now sounds good. Let's do it. Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 5>Welcome Glenn Washington to the show.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much for having me here today. I

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<v Speaker 4>really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 5>Ah, we really appreciate you coming on.

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<v Speaker 1>I am such a big fan of you and your

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<v Speaker 1>voice and your podcasts. You have such a soothing but

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<v Speaker 1>also incredibly engaging audio presence.

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<v Speaker 5>So I'm very excited.

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<v Speaker 4>What go on? Go on?

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<v Speaker 6>And now you can admire his face too.

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<v Speaker 2>We can see his face so wow, full package, no

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<v Speaker 2>make up, fill up.

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<v Speaker 5>I would never have known.

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<v Speaker 1>So. One thing that is a fun fact about you

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<v Speaker 1>as the host of Snap Judgment and other shows including

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<v Speaker 1>Heaven's Gates and Spooked, is that you yourself grew up

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<v Speaker 1>in a cult.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I'm a cult baby, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 5>Cult baby gang.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So you grew up in a group called the Worldwide

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<v Speaker 1>Church of God now called Grace Communion International. It was

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<v Speaker 1>founded by a man named Herbert w Armstrong, radio and

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<v Speaker 1>televangelist who built his following through religious broadcasts in the thirties,

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<v Speaker 1>forties and fifties. I actually listened to one this morning,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, I found it very fascinating because it was

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<v Speaker 1>like from nineteen forty one or something, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about how Hitler was evil, and I was like, yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if I heard that on the radio, I probably would

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<v Speaker 1>find that appealing. You know, can you please tell us

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<v Speaker 1>how your family came to be involved in this group.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's interesting you were listening to something from nineteen

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<v Speaker 4>forty one, because I'm not sure if you listened to

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<v Speaker 4>the whole thing, but he probably would have said that

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<v Speaker 4>Hitler's wise foretold the end of the world and that

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<v Speaker 4>Jesus was going to come soon. That was something he

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<v Speaker 4>starts selling in the forties. He sold it again in

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<v Speaker 4>the fifties every so often the world was coming to

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<v Speaker 4>an end, and that he had a secret access to

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<v Speaker 4>unlock the Bible that no one else knew but him.

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<v Speaker 4>Herbert taught a very fundamentalist view of Christianity, and the

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<v Speaker 4>big thing was he would always say, it's prove all things,

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<v Speaker 4>go see it if it's in the Bible yourself, and

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<v Speaker 4>growing up that's what we did. We studying the Bible

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, as a kid, I spend a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>time memorizing the Bible.

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<v Speaker 3>That's something you can only do as a child.

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<v Speaker 4>Adults can't really do that, but you can do another kid,

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<v Speaker 4>memorize huge passes of the Bible.

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<v Speaker 5>Like how much of the Bible are we talking here?

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<v Speaker 3>Chapters and passages?

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<v Speaker 4>So much? I can't so many, so much stuff. The

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<v Speaker 4>church sponsored something called Bible Bowl. I'll just have y'all know.

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<v Speaker 4>I was the Bible Bowl champion of Michigan.

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<v Speaker 2>We are talking to the Bible Bowl champion.

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<v Speaker 3>The Bible Ball champion.

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<v Speaker 4>You better believe it. What passage? What did you say?

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<v Speaker 4>Jeremih ten verse three? I know, I know what.

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<v Speaker 2>It is so competitive about it.

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<v Speaker 6>It is so funny too.

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<v Speaker 4>Write competitive about not just reciting passes of the Bible.

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<v Speaker 4>Everyone had to basically follow along with the Bible when

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<v Speaker 4>you went to church. If the pastor says Zachariah is

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<v Speaker 4>three six, if you take longer than ten seconds to

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<v Speaker 4>turn there in your Bible, then that means you need

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<v Speaker 4>to study more because you should be able to just

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<v Speaker 4>flip to it right away.

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<v Speaker 6>Wow.

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<v Speaker 4>And I say all that because yes, it was a

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<v Speaker 4>crazy cult.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes it was absurd yes, it was all these things.

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<v Speaker 4>But at the same time, there was that element where

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<v Speaker 4>you had to go in and engulf yourself in this

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<v Speaker 4>book that you supposedly believed. It's been my experience that

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<v Speaker 4>since then, a lot of people claim to believe that

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<v Speaker 4>book who've never read.

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<v Speaker 6>It for sure, right, And.

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<v Speaker 4>As crazy as that crazy cult was, and it was insanity,

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<v Speaker 4>it was insanity squared, at least they read the book.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, true.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think in reading the book, at least in

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<v Speaker 4>making that young generation that I was I grew up

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<v Speaker 4>in the church and making us memorize it, it kind

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<v Speaker 4>of sowed the scenes of their own destruction because later on,

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<v Speaker 4>if you tell my group of teenagers that it says

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<v Speaker 4>so and so and so in the Bible, I know it.

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<v Speaker 6>Doesn't Yeah right, where right?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't see you show me that way it says that,

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<v Speaker 4>And you're digging the hole in your own ship if

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<v Speaker 4>you do that. And that's what happened, And a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of people it's like prove all things. That's good if

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<v Speaker 4>you kind of have all a casual relationship with the book.

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<v Speaker 4>But once you get past that in a mediary period,

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<v Speaker 4>there's a lot of things that's going to be hard

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<v Speaker 4>to prove.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, were you memorizing the Old Testament and the New

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<v Speaker 2>Testament or just the New Testament?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Old Testament and the New Testament. Okay, the Old

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<v Speaker 4>Testament is quoted one hundred and thirty seven times in

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<v Speaker 4>the New Testament. These books cannot be taken apart from

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<v Speaker 4>each other.

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<v Speaker 3>They are one in the holes was teaching, but it

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<v Speaker 3>is true.

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, I don't want to get too much

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<v Speaker 4>into theology because I've left obviously. I would just tell

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<v Speaker 4>you this when you start looking at the book, the

0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.959
<v Speaker 4>Old Testament and the New Testament together are extraordinary documents.

0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.760
<v Speaker 4>It's amazing that they were preserved and that you have them.

0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 4>And then you have this look into the past, and

0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.360
<v Speaker 4>you have this idea of what people were thinking, what

0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.679
<v Speaker 4>they were grappling with, what they're wrestling with from a

0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:28.839
<v Speaker 4>theological from a political point of view, trying to create

0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.080
<v Speaker 4>a type of early history, and a sense of identity,

0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.960
<v Speaker 4>whatever you want to go on about. These are amazing books. Right.

0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:41.120
<v Speaker 4>What my question was, where'd they come from? Who wrote them?

0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.400
<v Speaker 4>Where did this thing come from? Wasn't I got past

0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.079
<v Speaker 4>the point? Well, well God wrote it? Well how did

0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.360
<v Speaker 4>that work? When I was on my way out. And

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 4>I'll get you a little bit later on when I

0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:51.760
<v Speaker 4>was on my way out from But when I was

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.480
<v Speaker 4>on my way out, I asked my pastor that question. So,

0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.880
<v Speaker 4>who wrote these books? Where did they come from? And

0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.920
<v Speaker 4>to his credit, he gave me a book. It was

0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 4>called Who Wrote the Bible? And this is when I

0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.520
<v Speaker 4>was in my late teens. And I read that book,

0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.079
<v Speaker 4>and I read it again and I was out, Wow,

0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:11.959
<v Speaker 4>it was kind of one of those things, and I

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 4>gotta I should explain.

0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 3>What I was out from.

0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.840
<v Speaker 4>The Worldwide Church of God was an apocalyptic end of

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 4>Day's Jesus cult, which white supremacy elements thrown in. The

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 4>idea was that Herbert w Armstrong, who you mentioned, had

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.000
<v Speaker 4>been given revelations directly by God that gave him special

0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 4>understandings to unlock the kidden keys of the Bible, and

0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 4>those hidden keys to his way of thinking were mainly prophetic,

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:45.240
<v Speaker 4>and that he could tell that the end of days

0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 4>was nighe and he had special ability to read world

0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 4>events and pair them with the Bible and be able

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.320
<v Speaker 4>to come up with what's going about to happen. And

0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.319
<v Speaker 4>you better get your act together now if you are

0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 4>again a casual believer of the Bible, and you watch

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.960
<v Speaker 4>world news and you hear somebody melding the two. That

0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 4>can be very persuasive to somebody. Sure it says, here,

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.760
<v Speaker 4>here's a beast power, and the beast power does this

0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 4>is in that and it's an Eastern Europe and boy

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 4>that looks like Hitler, And this is what's going to

0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.720
<v Speaker 4>happen because it's foretold in the Bible, and this, this

0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 4>and that, that's what we believe. But you go back further.

0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 4>Herbert came from the Seventh Day Adventist tradition and he

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:36.080
<v Speaker 4>also was an admin. Yes, right, he's an admin. So

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 4>when he went through his own searching when he left,

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 4>I think probably got kicked out of the Seventh Day

0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:45.320
<v Speaker 4>in Venice organizations and he started searching and basically created

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.040
<v Speaker 4>his own situation. Christian based culture, you're generally going to

0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.960
<v Speaker 4>have somebody praying overnight and sweating and wrestling with the

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 4>truth or whatever it is before God speaks to him.

0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.560
<v Speaker 4>He has his own story of that where he was

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 4>filled with this type of enlightenment, almost a Joseph Smith

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 4>type story.

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 5>I was gonna say that, Yeah, this happens again.

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 4>And again and again, but he was an admin.

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, do you think he believed it for real?

0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 6>Or do you think he was just an admin?

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 4>It's such an interesting idea. A lot of the people

0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.280
<v Speaker 4>who I grew up with, we go back and forth.

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 4>Did he believe it for real? I still honestly don't know.

0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 4>It got to be such madness. I'll say this. He

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 4>believed the money for real, right, He knew how to

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 4>make a pitch for real. He lived high on the

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 4>hog for real. He was one of the first sort

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 4>of people to justify buying an airplane for real.

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 1>An airplane, Wow, he had airplane money coming in. Well,

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 1>he was charging people thirty percent tithing right at different.

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 4>Oh oh yeah, the thirty That was an innovation. So

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 4>but did he believe it? Did he believe it? I honestly,

0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 4>I think that some people really love to hear themselves talk.

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 4>They can convince themselves of whatever it is. Sometimes it's

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 4>stuff ended up being so contradictory and ridiculous it's hard

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.120
<v Speaker 4>to believe anyone believed it when you actually listen to

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 4>the words. But I think that maybe he did believe it.

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 4>I think he was one of those people who it

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 4>didn't matter he would make himself believe anything, and that

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 4>whatever he believed just happened to be for his own benefit, hery.

0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.080
<v Speaker 6>He was an ad man and customer.

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 4>Exactly, and if he needed to believe something else, we

0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 4>can believe that too, right, right, But yes, you mentioned

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 4>the thirty percent. That was an innovation of the Worldwide

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Church of God. Lots of people know about tithing, but

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 4>have you heard of the second time? We did not

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.200
<v Speaker 4>celebrate Christmas, Easter, all those types of holidays that most

0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 4>people who consider themselves in the Christian faith celebrate. We

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 4>celebrated Passover, Pentecost, the Day of Atonement, which was a

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.880
<v Speaker 4>fasting day, which is essentially I'm kapoor. This is again

0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 4>like he was taken from a lot of religions. These

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 4>are awesome, sometimes more associated with the Jewish faith, the

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 4>Feast of Tabernacles, the Last Great Day. These are our

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 4>holidays that nobody's ever heard of. And most of the

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 4>people who were drawn to this organization, they didn't have

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 4>a lot of money. I was in a rural community

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 4>and no one had a lot of money. But you

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 4>had number one. You had to tie. But because we

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 4>didn't celebrate Christmas, treing like that, the deal was we

0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.640
<v Speaker 4>had something different than Christmas, better than Christmas.

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:32.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah better, I said.

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>It, better than Christmas, better than Christmas.

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.720
<v Speaker 4>It was called the Feast of Tabernacles. And so the

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.520
<v Speaker 4>idea behind the Feast of Tabernacles is you saved ten

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 4>percent of your income. In addition to the tie, save

0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.880
<v Speaker 4>another ten percent of your income, and you keep it

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 4>and you go every October on a seven day festival

0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 4>where you were commanded to blow it, to spend it

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 4>buck hotels, fancy dinners, whatever it may be.

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 3>Because the idea is that you are giving yourself a.

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 4>Taste of the world tomorrow, a taste of heaven on earth.

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 3>Wow, go and you blow it.

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 4>So imagine a poor family like us now again, I'll

0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 4>put you in my position for a little bit. I'm poor.

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 4>I live in the middle of nowhere, rural Michigan, and

0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm in some religion that nobody understands. I feel very,

0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.679
<v Speaker 4>very isolated, especially at school and stuff like that. We

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.919
<v Speaker 4>don't celebrate birthdays. I'm always talking weird stuff. I'm an

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 4>outsider just by default on almost every single thing I do.

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.680
<v Speaker 4>Then they pulled me out of school in October because

0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 4>we're going to the feast of tabernacles, which means we

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 4>load up our country squire station wagon and we get

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 4>in we start driving to we call it the festival location,

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.360
<v Speaker 4>which is different sites all over the country. The closest

0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.159
<v Speaker 4>one to where we are in Michigan was usually in

0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.920
<v Speaker 4>Wisconsin westcontin Dell's area. There's a big place in Wisconsin,

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 4>Dallas that's a resort community. So before you start driving,

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.160
<v Speaker 4>you have to put a green sticker on your car

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 4>that comes directly from headquarters in Pasadena, California. That lets

0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.240
<v Speaker 4>you know that you have all privileges to go to

0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 4>this festival or whatever it may be. You put that

0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.160
<v Speaker 4>on your car and you start driving now again in

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 4>the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere, and start driving.

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.359
<v Speaker 4>Then you got ten percent of your entire income for

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 4>the year in your pocket. My dad.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Everybody's happy.

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 4>Like nobody ever asked me if I want to stop

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 4>them peck downald or something in the way that didn't

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 4>come up now, Yeah, I want to stop. Yeah, get

0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.000
<v Speaker 4>an extra fryn. Yeah, we're falling up in this piece.

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.560
<v Speaker 4>I want the cheese. Put some cheese on, some extra cheese.

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:47.639
<v Speaker 3>We start riding.

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 4>We start riding, and you're riding down the street, down

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 4>the road, down the highway, and it's like wait, wait, wait,

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.399
<v Speaker 4>you see it off in the distance. There's another car

0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 4>and you think you see they got a green stick

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.919
<v Speaker 4>on their car too, and you try to pull up

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.760
<v Speaker 4>beside them, and they got kids and you got kids.

0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.440
<v Speaker 4>When you're honking and waving them, they're not alone anymore.

0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 4>There's another family with a green sticker. Now y'all going

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.560
<v Speaker 4>to ride together. In fact, you might even pull off

0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 4>the side and have kids go back and forth. And

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 4>then y'all keep on rolling. And then you keep rolling

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.600
<v Speaker 4>some more, and you see another green sticker and another,

0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.400
<v Speaker 4>and they're closer. You get to the feast site, you're

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.680
<v Speaker 4>seeing greensticker, greenstick of greenstick a green sticker. You're gone

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 4>from being alone in the middle of the wilderness to

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 4>being part of this excited, crazy, happy clan of people

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 4>who have got more money than they know what to

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.400
<v Speaker 4>do with. And you get there.

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.360
<v Speaker 3>You can stay in a hotel. I never stay no hotel.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.720
<v Speaker 4>You can stay in a hotel with a swimming pool,

0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 4>what what? And everybody there and you can only stay

0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 4>at select hotels that man deals with. So everybody you

0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 4>see that's at that hotel is part of your group.

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 4>Every single person. You're not alone anymore. This is all

0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 4>the kids, audi adults. Everybody is part of your group. Now,

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 4>go to Wisconsin Dells. They have a big facility. They

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.639
<v Speaker 4>could see ten thousand people in this facility. Everybody again

0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 4>is part of your thing. Now. Unfortunately you got to

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 4>go to church twice a day during this time period,

0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 4>but the rest of the time is yours to go

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.440
<v Speaker 4>out and do your thing. Now it's off season too,

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.639
<v Speaker 4>so Wisconsin Dells, they're like thrilled in the middle of October.

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.679
<v Speaker 4>What all these people running around? That's great, which is

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 4>good for us as well. Basically, if I saw somebody

0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.159
<v Speaker 4>going into the Wax Museum, I see somebody getting some

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.439
<v Speaker 4>fudge there. Us. That's us, mus us. Everywhere I go,

0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.119
<v Speaker 4>it's just us. That's how you spent that money. You

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.199
<v Speaker 4>spent that money for that time period. Now, of course

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:52.040
<v Speaker 4>when you're there, they had something called number one, the

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 4>tithe of the tithe, so that ten percent you were

0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.399
<v Speaker 4>supposed to put ten percent of that it goes to

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 4>the church. And then they had something called you got

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.320
<v Speaker 4>to new Offerings, and then you had excess tie, which

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 4>is like how much excess money have you ever had

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 4>excess money, but if you did, you got to get

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.679
<v Speaker 4>out over there to them as well, put that in

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 4>the basket and then bring your broke ass home.

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.640
<v Speaker 1>Wow. I mean, you did convince me that it's better

0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 1>than Christmas other than the part where you go home

0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:25.240
<v Speaker 1>broke at the end.

0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 5>Two church things a day.

0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Well I will say this as well.

0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 4>This was technology like never before heard in the seventies

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 4>and the eighties. I'm a little kid, and there's like,

0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.359
<v Speaker 4>you know, seven to ten thousand people in this facility,

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:44.440
<v Speaker 4>which is crazy.

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 3>And then they have these white coded.

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.200
<v Speaker 4>Scientists people come up and they got all this technology,

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 4>and they got wires and cables and stuff. They would say, okay, everybody,

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 4>get ready to turn out all the lights and they

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.879
<v Speaker 4>will project microwave transmission from Pasadena, California. So this is

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 4>back in the day. And you would see the church

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 4>in Pasadena, which is the headquarters thing. Like all good cults,

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 4>by the way, are based in California. So you see

0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 4>the microwave transition. They're in Pasadena. And then they'll be like,

0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:26.840
<v Speaker 4>all right, is London online? Is Florida online? Is Saskatchewan?

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.840
<v Speaker 4>You go around the world, you know, Tokyo Da and

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 4>everybody would lose.

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Their shit because we're like.

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:39.439
<v Speaker 4>I can't emphasize it up. You always felt alone, but

0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 4>for this moment, you were part of a community and

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 4>wasn't even just this ten thousand people you were with.

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.760
<v Speaker 4>It was people all around the world saying they can

0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:52.879
<v Speaker 4>see the microwave transmission from Pasadena, California. And everybody was

0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.639
<v Speaker 4>sing everybody was sing and you felt like you were

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.280
<v Speaker 4>singing with people all around the world.

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.440
<v Speaker 6>Wow, I mean you were. It's beautiful in a way.

0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that must have been a powerful communeral moment and

0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.840
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful reprieve from your general loneliness.

0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:09.479
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I totally get the appeal of that.

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that was that, and that was I just say

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:14.920
<v Speaker 4>out have to say that's where our second tithe went.

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 4>The third time every three years, you were supposed to

0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 4>come up with another ten percent.

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Now again, this is ten percent of your gross Like.

0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.120
<v Speaker 6>This is pre tax I know, I'm thinking, like, you.

0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Guys get ten percent at the end of taxes and everything.

0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand how anyone's supposed to live.

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:34.000
<v Speaker 6>Right.

0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:38.600
<v Speaker 4>Well, let's just say some people weren't exactly as exacting

0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 4>about throwing that in as they could have been. People were,

0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 4>A lot of people were. A lot of people were not.

0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:45.960
<v Speaker 4>If we didn't do any tithing, we will still be broke.

0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:47.960
<v Speaker 4>So I don't know how in the world that was

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 4>gonna work for us.

0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 5>We're in Michigan. Did you grow because I also grew

0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:54.680
<v Speaker 5>up in rural Michigan.

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.040
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I'm gonna do this right here, ladies and gentlemen,

0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm showing the hand Michigan. So the hand to each

0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 4>other to show them where they grew up. But I

0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.200
<v Speaker 4>was born in Detroit. I lived there twice five until

0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.879
<v Speaker 4>we moved to the Thumb of Michigan. I moved here,

0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:14.119
<v Speaker 4>Oh the Thumb, Kingston Caro a near Bay City, this

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:19.120
<v Speaker 4>type of area. This is where I was a farmer, Marlette, Michigan. Okay,

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.639
<v Speaker 4>crazy story from there. Lived in the Midland area for

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.359
<v Speaker 4>a while Mount Pleasant, then went to high school in

0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.040
<v Speaker 4>the Grand Rappert area before going to the University of Michigan.

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh As, I grew up an hour north of Grand

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Rapids in a little town called Newego.

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 6>Do you know Grand Haven, Lola, Grand Haven? No, because

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 6>that's where I grew up for a while.

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:46.919
<v Speaker 5>Wait, what a bunch of established this yeah, I was

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:47.520
<v Speaker 5>on a farm.

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 6>Do you know where Grand Haven is?

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:51.280
<v Speaker 4>Glenn? Of course I know where Grand Haven is.

0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:54.160
<v Speaker 6>Wow, okay, all right, Yeah you grew up in a farm.

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Blow up.

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:56.280
<v Speaker 5>I grew up on a farm. Yeah.

0:24:56.320 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Michigan unrelated to my CULTI experience. We just happened

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to be on a farm before my cult experience.

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:06.480
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, that's cool. Wow wow, look at us.

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.320
<v Speaker 4>Well then, Lolo, we got more than I thought in comment.

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:12.920
<v Speaker 4>Good Lord, Yeah, I know very well where you grew up.

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 4>Our cult that we meet in every week was in

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.840
<v Speaker 4>Grand Rapids. It included your area.

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:21.239
<v Speaker 6>Oh so oh yeah, interesting.

0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Because I was just a regular Mormon when I was

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.159
<v Speaker 1>living in Michigan before, like pre cult, when our church

0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 1>situation was weird, we had to go to Grand Rapids

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:29.680
<v Speaker 1>for our like Mormon church.

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 6>So look at that. Curious.

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:33.639
<v Speaker 5>So there was this prophecy.

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>About nineteen seventy five, but you keep saying late seventies,

0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 1>So did you join after this prophecy year was already done?

0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 4>I was like really tiny during then, so I missed

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:45.119
<v Speaker 4>that kind of situation. I mean, I think that nineteen

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:47.359
<v Speaker 4>seventy five things what drew my mother in for the

0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.160
<v Speaker 4>first place, Like oh my god, nineteen seventy five, that's

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 4>to be the end. But then when nineteen seventy five

0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 4>came and went, they stopped mentioning that. And so every

0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:01.720
<v Speaker 4>church basically had a library of books that were written

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:03.880
<v Speaker 4>by Herbert w Armstrong that you can kind of check

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:07.440
<v Speaker 4>out or whatever, and some of those books would disappear,

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:10.359
<v Speaker 4>like it was very very hard in the eighties to

0:26:10.440 --> 0:26:14.680
<v Speaker 4>find the nineteen seventy five in Prophecies books that'd be

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:19.119
<v Speaker 4>out of circulation, right, they took that out of circulations, right,

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.800
<v Speaker 4>But then somebody would find it at home or something

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 4>like that, that in some back room or something like that,

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:27.679
<v Speaker 4>and they get to, you know, fussing at us about

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:30.720
<v Speaker 4>we got to do right because of prophecy and something

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 4>like that, and they're like, what prophecy, huh, well this

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventy five and prophecy, where did you get that?

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 4>Where do you get that? That book? That's that why

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:44.880
<v Speaker 4>they don't update it. They updated of whatever, they had

0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:49.440
<v Speaker 4>new revelations something I don't know, I don't remember exact terminology,

0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:53.119
<v Speaker 4>but I remember they did not appreciate teenagers in the

0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:56.360
<v Speaker 4>eighties taking out the nineteen seventy five book and prophecy

0:26:56.640 --> 0:26:58.359
<v Speaker 4>and waving that around. I know that for sure.

0:26:58.840 --> 0:26:59.520
<v Speaker 5>I am sure.

0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:03.880
<v Speaker 1>So they're like, oh, JK, wasn't then, but it's going

0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>to happen soon.

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:08.639
<v Speaker 3>This is what's crazy about it.

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 4>Like you mentioned that you heard something from nineteen forty one,

0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:16.880
<v Speaker 4>they would call dates specifically the world's gonna end such

0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 4>and such and such and such, nineteen forty one, nineteen

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:23.120
<v Speaker 4>forty five, nineteen fifty six, nineteen this is the net.

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 4>I think nineteen seventy four the Prophecy Book was they

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 4>finally learned a lesson. It's said soon instead of calling

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 4>specific dates.

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:35.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:39.880
<v Speaker 4>I do remember this being in Midland, Michigan, which apparently

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:41.960
<v Speaker 4>all of us know when I was a little kid.

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.680
<v Speaker 4>And I'm saying, Bretherd, if you think we're gonna make

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:49.480
<v Speaker 4>it through the end of the eighties without seeing the

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 4>return of the Lord Jesus Christ, well you got another

0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:58.159
<v Speaker 4>thing coming. So that was an exact date. And I

0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:00.960
<v Speaker 4>will say what's interesting as well. I was like, there

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:06.439
<v Speaker 4>were some people this was not technically supported by official

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 4>church doctrine, but there were several respected brethren and lay

0:28:13.240 --> 0:28:16.680
<v Speaker 4>ministers or whatever. I remember going to one person's house.

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:19.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't know I was trying to get out of this.

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.360
<v Speaker 4>I don't know how they caught me in this basement.

0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 4>I was one of my buddy's dads and he's got

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:30.680
<v Speaker 4>a chopboard and he's taken us through. Okay, it's nineteen

0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:35.359
<v Speaker 4>eighty whatever. And you were divided that by the year

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 4>of completion, which is six times the Tower of Babel

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.840
<v Speaker 4>and the sun spots, and you turn that upside down

0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:46.240
<v Speaker 4>with the number of pages in the original King James

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:50.240
<v Speaker 4>version of Bible, and then you get to the end.

0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:55.120
<v Speaker 4>Time is going to be June seventeenth, nineteen eighty six,

0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:58.080
<v Speaker 4>something like that. We had the date. He said, okay,

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:01.000
<v Speaker 4>put that down, and it's like any question. And I

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 4>was just like, man, you got to let me.

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 3>About this piece. I don't know what's going on.

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:10.520
<v Speaker 4>Especially as young kids at the time, we thought that

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 4>was mad crazy. I was told as a kid that

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 4>I would not graduate high.

0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:18.200
<v Speaker 6>School because you'd be gone to heaven.

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 3>I'd be gone, Yeah, yeah, I'd be gone.

0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:23.880
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't be married, I wouldn't have a family, I

0:29:23.920 --> 0:29:26.840
<v Speaker 4>wouldn't do any of that kind of stuff because that

0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:28.400
<v Speaker 4>will just with in the card for me.

0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 1>And did you believe that, Like, how fervent of a

0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 1>believer were you as a kid?

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I believe the general idea.

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:37.720
<v Speaker 4>I had a lot of quibbles about specifics, and I

0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:39.320
<v Speaker 4>had a lot of quibbles about the.

0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Racial situation there.

0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 4>I thought that they were crazy racists, but I thought

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:48.360
<v Speaker 4>that the overall idea of the Bible that they had

0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 4>that they were doing was right.

0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 3>I did believe that.

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:53.280
<v Speaker 5>Did you know any other black families in this church? Reason?

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 4>Only there were a couple. This is crazy.

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:57.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to tell you something.

0:29:57.280 --> 0:29:59.040
<v Speaker 4>This is the deal. I'm a young man, you know,

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 4>doing what young men do. The problem was like in

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 4>our area there were no black girls, and the interracial dating.

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 3>And fragnization like that was forbidden. It was evil or whatever.

0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 4>And I thought, you know, hey, I like sisters, just fine,

0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 4>but there aren't any of them over here. I don't

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 4>know what y'all want me to do. It really sucked.

0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:24.320
<v Speaker 4>It really really sucked. But there's a Lanting church, and

0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 4>that Lanting church they had one black girl there, and

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 4>so I was supposed to, Oh, there's one for you, great.

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:34.800
<v Speaker 6>Wow.

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 4>She was actually very cute, very cool. But she was

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 4>in the same fix, right. But I think her father

0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 4>was white and it was by coming before they got

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:48.640
<v Speaker 4>into the church or something like that. And I didn't

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:49.960
<v Speaker 4>know any of that stuff. She was black. To me,

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.800
<v Speaker 4>I was like, cool, well, you know, I don't know leader.

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 4>But she pulled a backstage past just what she did.

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:59.040
<v Speaker 4>So there was a secret policy for people who are

0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:02.920
<v Speaker 4>They called it determined racial classification. And what you could

0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:05.560
<v Speaker 4>do is they call it the look see administrative review,

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 4>which meant that you would send a picture into headquarters

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 4>the pastating of California and they would look and they

0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:18.080
<v Speaker 4>would see her how to classify you're sorry, wow. And

0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:20.800
<v Speaker 4>so what she did was she got a picture of her,

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:23.120
<v Speaker 4>put on a lot of extra flash in the picture,

0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 4>and she sent it into passing in California, and they

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:30.280
<v Speaker 4>came back and they said, for all privileges and rights,

0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:34.120
<v Speaker 4>you are now Caucasian and this is not. And so

0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:38.200
<v Speaker 4>the one black girl in the area she got reclassified

0:31:38.200 --> 0:31:43.760
<v Speaker 4>by look see wow. I say all that to say,

0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 4>so I was out of love. I was out of luck.

0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 4>Right now, I say, I'll have to say this. I'll

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 4>just fast forward little bit. We'll get back to it.

0:31:52.560 --> 0:31:55.320
<v Speaker 4>But I fasted for a little bit. I left the organization.

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 4>I lived in Japan, for a long time, lived in Malaysia,

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 4>went to law school at University of Michigan, and my

0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 4>second year of law school, I was having a party

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 4>for grad students of color at my place and it

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 4>was just a dumb excuse to meet women, but it

0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 4>worked out great. So people start filing in their filing

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 4>in and filing in, and I see this beautiful black girl.

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 3>So I go over there. I started talking to her.

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 4>And I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, Well I

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 4>know you, and she said like, that is not a

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:26.720
<v Speaker 4>very good line.

0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, you need to.

0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:30.680
<v Speaker 4>Game a little bit.

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.200
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, I'm for real, I'm real.

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 4>And then it hit me and then I sang a

0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 4>hymno from our church, Last and Happy.

0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:44.840
<v Speaker 7>She looked at me and it was her this look,

0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:53.440
<v Speaker 7>see no, Well yeah, my god.

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:56.160
<v Speaker 4>Now I might forget a name, but I don't forget

0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:56.520
<v Speaker 4>a face.

0:32:58.320 --> 0:32:59.880
<v Speaker 6>Did you guys talk about it?

0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:00.520
<v Speaker 4>We did.

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 3>We laughed ourselves silly that night.

0:33:03.760 --> 0:33:04.040
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:06.760
<v Speaker 4>And I told her how much I didn't appreciate those

0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 4>tricks she was pulling back in the day. And she's like, well,

0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.840
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to relitigate the past, but.

0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:18.160
<v Speaker 6>That's funny.

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:19.560
<v Speaker 4>It was hilarious.

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:20.640
<v Speaker 5>She gained the system.

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:24.160
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of great, But what a crazy premise like

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:26.040
<v Speaker 1>for you to even be in this group.

0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 5>I mean, like, yeah, what was that?

0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:29.719
<v Speaker 5>How did you feel about that?

0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:32.360
<v Speaker 4>I advise all the kids I see these days don't

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:33.120
<v Speaker 4>grow up in a coat.

0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 6>We do too, Yeah, a strong recognation that we have.

0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 5>Also, don't join one as an adult.

0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:40.640
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:41.520
<v Speaker 5>That's also not.

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:47.480
<v Speaker 4>Great people coming the other way. Yeah, it was tough.

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 4>It was difficult, especially the ramifications of a lot of it.

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 4>We cut off my family, extended family, my cousins, and

0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:59.280
<v Speaker 4>that really hurt, and it still hurts that I have

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:04.040
<v Speaker 4>a deeper golf with them than I should because of

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:06.959
<v Speaker 4>that cult stuff. I had to always avoid them or

0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:11.400
<v Speaker 4>sometimes we would go for almost a year without having

0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 4>contact with them because the church said to.

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:15.000
<v Speaker 3>And that was just hurtfault.

0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:15.640
<v Speaker 6>It sucks.

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Did that apply to you like at school as well?

0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:20.799
<v Speaker 1>Were you're not supposed to like hang out with outsider

0:34:20.880 --> 0:34:22.919
<v Speaker 1>kids or was this just a family thing?

0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:26.560
<v Speaker 4>No, you could. I just had a bunch of rules

0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:28.400
<v Speaker 4>that basically made it, and people didn't want to hang

0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:28.920
<v Speaker 4>out with me.

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:32.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean it was hard to classify.

0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 4>I'm already in rule Michigan I'm black, I'm a crazy farmer.

0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:38.680
<v Speaker 4>We're broke.

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:41.120
<v Speaker 6>You have the entire Bible memorized.

0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 4>I got to please. I'm memorizing the Bible. I'm telling

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 4>kids the truth about Santa Claus.

0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:50.239
<v Speaker 6>Oh me too, that's my problem too.

0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:54.319
<v Speaker 4>But like if you have a birthday party, I can't participate.

0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 4>I got to go stand in the hall of what

0:34:56.840 --> 0:35:01.719
<v Speaker 4>everybody's eating cake. You're creating a social outcast. Put just

0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 4>one of those things and you're gonna have trouble. Had

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:07.279
<v Speaker 4>a bunch of stuff going on. It was tough. It

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:09.680
<v Speaker 4>was just really really tough. But I did have friends

0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:12.040
<v Speaker 4>at the church. We spent a lot of time together.

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:15.560
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't like we're in a compound situation, but because

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:19.479
<v Speaker 4>you meet so much, Like if you're meeting four five

0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:22.759
<v Speaker 4>times a week, you might as well be in a compound, right,

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:25.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, that's kind of what you do. I went

0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 4>to regular school, but it was just a lot. It

0:35:28.320 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 4>was a lot.

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:32.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, man, being a kid is hard enough.

0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.799
<v Speaker 1>Making friends is hard enough as it is, just like

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 1>being someone who does fit in in theory.

0:35:37.280 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I added, and the special little thing of telling everybody

0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.480
<v Speaker 2>I met who was wearing makeup or anything that they

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:43.120
<v Speaker 2>were going to hell.

0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:44.879
<v Speaker 6>So that was a fun little.

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, oh yeah.

0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:51.840
<v Speaker 4>I would talk about how hot the fire was gonna be,

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:54.520
<v Speaker 4>you know that type of stuff.

0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:55.160
<v Speaker 6>Man, Sam.

0:35:55.239 --> 0:36:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, see, I just had those thoughts privately, not to

0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:02.120
<v Speaker 1>alienate the children at school.

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:06.640
<v Speaker 6>For I wish I would have known.

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:13.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So did you ever actually meet Herbert or No?

0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 4>I did A couple of times. He would come through

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 4>and be a big deal and we kind of get

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 4>in a line and we go and meet him and

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:24.360
<v Speaker 4>we kind of stand in the line. He wrote a

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.440
<v Speaker 4>book almost a year, whatever new book it was, and

0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.760
<v Speaker 4>oftentimes he would fly around and hand out these books

0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:34.520
<v Speaker 4>like prizes to the brethren. And I met him a

0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:36.560
<v Speaker 4>couple times, Like I mean, when I think met him,

0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:38.359
<v Speaker 4>I was in a line and I saw him.

0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 6>Or something like that, or shook his hand like a

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 6>book signing.

0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:43.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, a book signing, that's right. It was a book signing.

0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 4>That's that what we called it.

0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:46.200
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it was something like that.

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:49.200
<v Speaker 5>Did he seem like special to you?

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:49.440
<v Speaker 4>Like?

0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:50.920
<v Speaker 5>What did you think I did me that?

0:36:51.000 --> 0:36:52.960
<v Speaker 4>I was a very little kid when I saw him,

0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:57.480
<v Speaker 4>and they were like, look, don't pull any of your tricks.

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 4>We get up to meet this great man. You know,

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:03.439
<v Speaker 4>you stand up straight, you look them in the eye,

0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:06.000
<v Speaker 4>and you're meeting an apostle. And this is a big deal.

0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 4>You're meeting an apostle, the.

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:09.839
<v Speaker 5>Last Apostle, right, that's what he would call him.

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:10.720
<v Speaker 3>The last Apostle.

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:14.839
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Wow, there's two witnesses that are left correct and

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:15.640
<v Speaker 2>he's one of them.

0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:18.879
<v Speaker 4>Well, that was the whole deal that you know this stuff, man,

0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:21.760
<v Speaker 4>this is what I'm talking about. So the Bible speaks

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:24.080
<v Speaker 4>of the end time being two witnesses that are going

0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:27.120
<v Speaker 4>to preach until the final days. The old deal was

0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 4>that he would see that he was probably one of

0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:33.400
<v Speaker 4>the witnesses, but we didn't know who the second one was.

0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 3>And that was my aspiration.

0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 4>I thought, if I got these Bible verses right, and

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.360
<v Speaker 4>I did the right thing and got right with Jesus,

0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:44.640
<v Speaker 4>I would be the second witness because wow, he's old anyway,

0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.520
<v Speaker 4>he was always old from from the fact that he's

0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:51.400
<v Speaker 4>always been old as hell. So I thought, you know,

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:54.200
<v Speaker 4>maybe I could slide in. They're gonna need somebody younger

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:58.880
<v Speaker 4>and charismatic, and a brown wouldn't hurt, maybe, you know,

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:00.960
<v Speaker 4>to kind of help get that second witness.

0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:03.879
<v Speaker 2>So you had that like kind of on your shoulders, like, oh,

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be the second.

0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 4>It was an aspiration, Yeah, it was an aspiration. I

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:11.879
<v Speaker 4>didn't see anybody else that seemed to fit the bill,

0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 4>so I thought maybe I could do it.

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I've heard you talk on other podcasts about how you

0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:20.080
<v Speaker 1>you're dealing with all this stuff and all this isolation,

0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 1>but at the same time, you felt really special, And

0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 1>that's something that I can certainly relate to, because at

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:28.120
<v Speaker 1>one point in time I thought that my mom and

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I were the only two people on earth who knew

0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:34.120
<v Speaker 1>about this prophet and this second coming that was happening.

0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:34.720
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:37.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, can you talk about that special feeling?

0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:40.479
<v Speaker 1>And I mean clearly you felt special if you thought

0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:42.920
<v Speaker 1>you were going to be potentially the second Abustle.

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:45.920
<v Speaker 5>Or the second Witness.

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Wow, I really did feel, like I guess said.

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.520
<v Speaker 4>I had a lot of issues with various things, but

0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:56.040
<v Speaker 4>I thought that we were being revealed a special truth

0:38:56.440 --> 0:39:00.360
<v Speaker 4>that no one else knew. Because in the Bible, the

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:03.399
<v Speaker 4>end Time talks about saving one hundred and forty four

0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:06.640
<v Speaker 4>thousand people who would go and meet Jesus in the end,

0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:09.080
<v Speaker 4>and one hundred and forty four thousand people isn't a

0:39:09.080 --> 0:39:09.680
<v Speaker 4>lot of people.

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:13.400
<v Speaker 3>And you look around and you see.

0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 4>All these people. They're all gonna burn. They're all gonna

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:20.200
<v Speaker 4>burn in this tribulation that's coming. Our idea was we

0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:23.520
<v Speaker 4>thought that this big war was imminent and that we

0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 4>were gonna be wisked off to a place of safety.

0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:30.440
<v Speaker 4>That people speculated it was Petra, that we're gonna go

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:33.440
<v Speaker 4>to Petra for some reason and live in a cave

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 4>for three and a half years and then Jesus was

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:38.960
<v Speaker 4>gonna come. As an aside, let me just just say this.

0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:42.040
<v Speaker 4>When we were living in the Grand Rapids area at

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:44.680
<v Speaker 4>one point, this is rare. In my household, there was

0:39:44.719 --> 0:39:47.239
<v Speaker 4>just nobody there. No one was at my house. And

0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:50.200
<v Speaker 4>my little brother was in the bed taking a nap

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 4>in the middle of the afternoon, like four in the

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:52.680
<v Speaker 4>afternoon something like that.

0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:55.120
<v Speaker 3>And it was my big chance. He's a year younger

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 3>than me.

0:39:55.880 --> 0:39:59.399
<v Speaker 4>So I went downstairs and I started screaming, you got

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 4>to go to seven eleven because everybody's going to the

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:04.799
<v Speaker 4>place of safety and you got to get there right now.

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.840
<v Speaker 4>And me to Jesus warriors, they're gonna take you to Petra.

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:10.120
<v Speaker 4>I'll meet you there, just waiting the parking lot is

0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:13.320
<v Speaker 4>send eleven. So he wakes if out of the sleep

0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:18.280
<v Speaker 4>and he takes his bike and he goes off to eleven.

0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:21.319
<v Speaker 4>And it gets to be dinner time, and my mom

0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:23.160
<v Speaker 4>and dad asked me, like, where's your brother at I

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 4>don't know when he came back. He was hot.

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:36.320
<v Speaker 3>He was hot.

0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 6>That prank has every layer on it.

0:40:40.000 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 2>It's like, you know, just every single layer that a

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:45.320
<v Speaker 2>prank could hide.

0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:54.400
<v Speaker 4>So mean crazy anyway, Yes, I felt special, I felt chosen.

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:59.360
<v Speaker 4>I felt sorry for people who didn't have the special knowledge.

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:03.480
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm really did. And I remember too when

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 4>I had left organization. When you first leave it, I

0:41:06.320 --> 0:41:08.680
<v Speaker 4>still think that fire is going to rain down from

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:10.880
<v Speaker 4>heaven for me or what it may be. But I

0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:13.280
<v Speaker 4>tried to escape, and I ended up getting this fellowship

0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 4>to go study in Asia.

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:15.680
<v Speaker 3>I was living in Japan.

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.439
<v Speaker 4>It's this area that had never seen any foreigners really,

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:22.360
<v Speaker 4>and my Japanese is at the time basically non existent.

0:41:22.680 --> 0:41:25.080
<v Speaker 4>And I'm trying to ask me what I believed and

0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:28.279
<v Speaker 4>what my religion was, and I'm trying to explain it

0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 4>in Japanese to them, and they.

0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:32.840
<v Speaker 3>Would laugh and laugh and laugh.

0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:35.960
<v Speaker 4>I remember me at bars and I'm listening to myself

0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:40.080
<v Speaker 4>speak like a two year older about what my beliefs are,

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 4>and I'm laughing at myself because it sounds so freaking stupid,

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:48.600
<v Speaker 4>but it was the truth. I will be forever grateful

0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:52.359
<v Speaker 4>for that experience. I think that trying to explain what

0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:56.439
<v Speaker 4>you really believe in a different language, it just gives

0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.000
<v Speaker 4>you a slightly different perspective on what the words coming

0:41:59.040 --> 0:42:05.319
<v Speaker 4>out of your mouth. What did I just say? That

0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:06.400
<v Speaker 4>don't make any kind of sense?

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:08.319
<v Speaker 1>Did you tell them you thought that the end was

0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:09.560
<v Speaker 1>coming at any more?

0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:11.720
<v Speaker 4>I probably did, But we were near the end times,

0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:16.879
<v Speaker 4>and this book had the prophecies that foretold what we're

0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 4>going through right now, and I probably said a lot

0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:23.280
<v Speaker 4>of things that were baffling me, that were literally baffling

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:25.239
<v Speaker 4>me even as I came out of my mouth. Wow.

0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.320
<v Speaker 3>But the crazy thing is that, yes, I felt special

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:28.759
<v Speaker 3>coming up.

0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:33.200
<v Speaker 4>But even when I abandoned that belief system, I felt

0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:37.680
<v Speaker 4>like I was Harry Potter and everybody else was a muggle, right,

0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 4>I really did. I felt like I had to force

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:45.720
<v Speaker 4>Even after I abandoned that belief system, that feeling didn't

0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 4>necessarily go away for good or ill. And my current

0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:55.839
<v Speaker 4>sort of model of the world of the universe. That

0:42:55.880 --> 0:43:01.000
<v Speaker 4>feeling makes no sense, It really doesn't. Yeah, but there it.

0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.160
<v Speaker 5>Is, right, I mean, I relate to that so hard.

0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Not to shout out my own writing, but I wrote

0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:10.239
<v Speaker 1>about my cult experience five years ago or something, and

0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 1>it specifically talks about the feeling of being special and

0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:18.240
<v Speaker 1>how once I no longer had those beliefs, I needed

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:21.279
<v Speaker 1>to find some other outlet for my feelings of specialness,

0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:24.279
<v Speaker 1>and so I pursued music full time because I was like, well,

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:26.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm clearly special in some way and have to make

0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:28.520
<v Speaker 1>my mark on the world, and if it's not because

0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:30.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm chosen to save the world, it's going to be

0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:32.280
<v Speaker 1>through my music or whatever.

0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:34.560
<v Speaker 5>You know, totally totally get that.

0:43:34.640 --> 0:43:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you have that, Megan, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, I

0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:38.319
<v Speaker 1>don't know.

0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:39.479
<v Speaker 6>In my mind, I think like.

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Everybody probably feels a little bit like that from some

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:44.000
<v Speaker 2>different way in childhood.

0:43:44.000 --> 0:43:46.640
<v Speaker 6>They you know, like I'm the best at this, I'm this,

0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:47.160
<v Speaker 6>I'm that.

0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:50.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but definitely we have an exaggerated version

0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 2>of that. I'm sure I feel very separate from the

0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:53.959
<v Speaker 2>rest of the world, for sure.

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:54.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, No, it's true.

0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:57.759
<v Speaker 1>Well, especially in la probably a lot of Yeah, I

0:43:57.760 --> 0:43:58.680
<v Speaker 1>feel exactly special.

0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:00.000
<v Speaker 6>That's probably my reference.

0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Well, Glenn, can you tell us about that

0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:06.200
<v Speaker 1>process of leaving?

0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:08.000
<v Speaker 5>So you read this book? Who wrote the Bible?

0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:11.839
<v Speaker 1>And what were the revelations that you had and how

0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:14.480
<v Speaker 1>long did that process take and what was going on?

0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:17.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I read the book and knew that this wasn't

0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:21.880
<v Speaker 4>really for me, But the people I was still close

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:24.520
<v Speaker 4>to were my friends that were in that organization. Those

0:44:24.560 --> 0:44:26.800
<v Speaker 4>are my people, and I didn't want to leave them.

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:30.040
<v Speaker 4>And more importantly, I guess in a different way, if

0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 4>you leave the church, everyone is obligated to this fellowship you,

0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:37.040
<v Speaker 4>which means basically shun you and not talk to you

0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:39.800
<v Speaker 4>and disassociate with you. I didn't want that to happen

0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:43.440
<v Speaker 4>to me, but I really didn't necessarily wanted to happen

0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:48.200
<v Speaker 4>to them. That process is just so hard and jarren

0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:52.200
<v Speaker 4>and weird and crazy and hurtful, and a few of

0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 4>us in the past when we're oh, you don't talk

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:57.000
<v Speaker 4>to them anymore or something like that, we wouldn't do it.

0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.080
<v Speaker 4>That's one of the things where we would try to

0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.160
<v Speaker 4>not go along with the program on. But it's hard

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:07.120
<v Speaker 4>to say to someone that you've grown up with since

0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:09.520
<v Speaker 4>the little kid. Now you're supposed to just fellowship me.

0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:12.800
<v Speaker 4>I'm not not part of that thing anymore. It sounds

0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:15.359
<v Speaker 4>weird because I was almost ready for it. But it's like,

0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:18.520
<v Speaker 4>do you want to impose that on somebody else? Because

0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:21.160
<v Speaker 4>when you leave, it's not just you leaving, and you

0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:25.360
<v Speaker 4>do that to your family, and it's just a ramifications

0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:27.960
<v Speaker 4>about that that happened at the age I was when

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.440
<v Speaker 4>it was happening, was in my late teens. You're supposed

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 4>to get baptized. Everybody got baptized. I didn't do that,

0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:35.279
<v Speaker 4>And I kept on asking me when I'm gonna be back. Oh,

0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:40.319
<v Speaker 4>you know, don't think about that. That's interesting anyway, what's

0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 4>for lunch service situation? I go back again to that

0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 4>whole going to Japan thing. I had left again. It

0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 4>hurt people, and I remember I was sure. I was

0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:52.040
<v Speaker 4>absolutely sure this is the right thing to do. But

0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:54.799
<v Speaker 4>when I remember when I told people that I was

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:56.799
<v Speaker 4>doing it, I felt the sky was going to open

0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:58.520
<v Speaker 4>up and rain down fire.

0:45:58.560 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 5>Meaning leaving the church or leaving for Japan.

0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:03.359
<v Speaker 3>Leaving the church, leaving the church.

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.680
<v Speaker 4>But then when I did go to Japan, I flew

0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 4>into Tokyo, got on a train, took a bus, another train,

0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:15.880
<v Speaker 4>taxi got to my new place where there's a thunderstorm

0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:18.600
<v Speaker 4>going on out there. I don't know the city I'm in.

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:20.960
<v Speaker 4>I've never been there before. I don't speak a word

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.239
<v Speaker 4>of the language. I don't even know how to use

0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:27.120
<v Speaker 4>a phone in Japan. My parents don't know what city

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:30.040
<v Speaker 4>I'm in. But I go to my new apartment and

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 4>the phone is ringing. The phone is ringing. I'll surprise

0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:36.399
<v Speaker 4>somebody I picked up. I was like hello, and I'm

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:38.960
<v Speaker 4>back to someone to be surprised, the wrong number whatever.

0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:41.959
<v Speaker 4>And they're like, hello, this is so and so from

0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.840
<v Speaker 4>the Blobi Church of God, and we heard us in

0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 4>Japan right now. I want to know that. You know,

0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:49.239
<v Speaker 4>we have meetings such and such down and such and such.

0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 4>I was like, there's a bad I can't really hear

0:46:56.280 --> 0:47:01.839
<v Speaker 4>what y're saying. But click, yeah, that happened. How they

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:05.239
<v Speaker 4>got I couldn't do it. I don't know. Nobody knew

0:47:05.239 --> 0:47:06.839
<v Speaker 4>where I was. I didn't know where I was.

0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:10.560
<v Speaker 5>WHOA that is creepy.

0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:13.920
<v Speaker 6>Yep, that's like stucking you.

0:47:13.920 --> 0:47:15.600
<v Speaker 4>You got to get that money some kind of way.

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:17.760
<v Speaker 3>You gotta have the systems in place.

0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:20.040
<v Speaker 1>How do you even do that before the Internet? It

0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:21.680
<v Speaker 1>doesn't even compute in my brain.

0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:23.719
<v Speaker 4>This is what I will say. Let me leave you

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.880
<v Speaker 4>with this. When I first started Snamp Judgment. If people

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:30.279
<v Speaker 4>don't know, Snamp Judgment is a public radio show, it's

0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:33.480
<v Speaker 4>a stage show. We've done some television work. This is

0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:36.080
<v Speaker 4>a decade ago. We want to be really The time

0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:39.800
<v Speaker 4>award was multimedia want to be really crazy. Multimedia was

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:43.080
<v Speaker 4>built into the DNA of the launch. There was a magazine,

0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 4>which is really dumb. We didn't want anyone to see

0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:46.239
<v Speaker 4>that part, but we had to do it for the

0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:50.280
<v Speaker 4>grand all this stuff. But when I was initially pulling

0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:53.600
<v Speaker 4>together the initial business plan for it, our initial funder

0:47:53.719 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 4>was a corporation for public broadcasting, and somebody, wow, this

0:47:57.719 --> 0:47:59.480
<v Speaker 4>is a lot of stuff. We wanted to do some

0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 4>work and see if there's any other people who've kind

0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.839
<v Speaker 4>of combined the same sort of multimedia thing into one

0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:10.359
<v Speaker 4>unit that you've done before. And somebody came and said, well,

0:48:10.400 --> 0:48:11.719
<v Speaker 4>there's this guy, Herbert w.

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Or Armstrong who did something like this.

0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.839
<v Speaker 4>I'm just like, as fast as you run, as far

0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:19.640
<v Speaker 4>as you run, you end up right back where you started.

0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:22.680
<v Speaker 4>I almost lost my mind, and someone came out here

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:25.680
<v Speaker 4>with just Herbert w Armstrong stuff. Have you ever heard

0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:30.160
<v Speaker 4>of a Herbert w Armstrong? Yes, I heard him. I

0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.359
<v Speaker 4>don't want to do that. What was interesting about leaving

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:34.600
<v Speaker 4>in the first place is when you do leave. I

0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.160
<v Speaker 4>grew up in this crazy organization, and when I was leaving,

0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 4>I felt stupid, I felt tricked, I felt angry, I

0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:47.440
<v Speaker 4>felt like I had wasted my youth, and I felt

0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:51.319
<v Speaker 4>all those things. And I felt as well that the

0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:56.359
<v Speaker 4>only thing I really knew anything about was how to

0:48:56.719 --> 0:48:59.120
<v Speaker 4>run a cult, how to be in a cult. That's

0:48:59.120 --> 0:48:59.680
<v Speaker 4>what I knew.

0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:04.640
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I didn't want to do that, but so why not?

0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah I didn't. There's enough cause I didn't want to

0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:12.200
<v Speaker 4>do that. But that was where the whole storytelling evolved from.

0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:15.160
<v Speaker 4>I realized I did learn something from those clowns. I

0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:19.640
<v Speaker 4>was trying to find a positive takeaway from my time

0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:20.800
<v Speaker 4>with them.

0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:23.680
<v Speaker 3>The only thing that kept us in those seats all

0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.680
<v Speaker 3>those many years listening to all that crazy stuff was

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:30.800
<v Speaker 3>a collective sense of story, a shared story, And so

0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:36.440
<v Speaker 3>I know firsthand how important narrative is. A narrative can

0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:39.399
<v Speaker 3>make you do the most ridiculous thing. A narrative can

0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:41.560
<v Speaker 3>make you give away thirty percent of your income even

0:49:41.560 --> 0:49:44.399
<v Speaker 3>though you're broke. A narrative can think you think that

0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:46.760
<v Speaker 3>the world's gonna end next week. And a narrative can.

0:49:46.640 --> 0:49:49.799
<v Speaker 4>Make you come back to a church even though they

0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:51.800
<v Speaker 4>said Jesus is gonna be there last week and he

0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:53.359
<v Speaker 4>didn't show up. We can make you come back again

0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 4>the next week after that and the next week after that.

0:49:55.640 --> 0:50:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Narratives and a shared story is maybe the most powerful

0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:04.560
<v Speaker 4>thing of all. And so I think that they really

0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.560
<v Speaker 4>did give me something, like we're all in this line.

0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:11.480
<v Speaker 4>People oftentimes think all those culties are crazy. I wouldn't

0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:14.360
<v Speaker 4>join the colt. I wouldn't do that, and maybe you wouldn't.

0:50:14.560 --> 0:50:19.200
<v Speaker 4>Maybe you would. But honestly, I don't see them as

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.320
<v Speaker 4>those others that oftentimes they're depicted up at the media

0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:27.560
<v Speaker 4>or wherever. I know that they're regular people. Often sometimes

0:50:27.600 --> 0:50:31.640
<v Speaker 4>they're really good people who have a desire to follow

0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:36.880
<v Speaker 4>their convictions. And that's sometimes twisted in turn by a

0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.799
<v Speaker 4>charlatan in a certain way. And it's a shame to

0:50:39.840 --> 0:50:43.440
<v Speaker 4>see someone who with a good heart have that turn

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:47.440
<v Speaker 4>on them, have that very sense of search and seeking

0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:50.080
<v Speaker 4>that they have turn on them, I gues it's a

0:50:50.120 --> 0:50:52.319
<v Speaker 4>real evil thing to do to somebody. I think it's

0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:54.360
<v Speaker 4>a real, a wondrous type of evil.

0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:56.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And instead.

0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:58.520
<v Speaker 4>Of being I guess mad in the same way, I'm

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:04.239
<v Speaker 4>grateful my background is such that I don't have to

0:51:04.360 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 4>other those people. And hopefully if you meet someone where

0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:13.160
<v Speaker 4>they are, you can lead them away from some of

0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:13.520
<v Speaker 4>this stuff.

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:15.719
<v Speaker 3>And at least that was my thought. I would just

0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:16.200
<v Speaker 3>say this.

0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.120
<v Speaker 4>People want to make fun of religious cults or whatever,

0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:22.680
<v Speaker 4>but we just had a national cult, you know, wanted

0:51:22.719 --> 0:51:28.200
<v Speaker 4>to desecrate the Capitol building, run around crazy doing the stuff.

0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.920
<v Speaker 4>I would say that the cult I grew up in

0:51:31.600 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 4>was far less pernicious than this national cult that we've

0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:39.360
<v Speaker 4>just been experiencing. And nothing that we believed was anything

0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:43.240
<v Speaker 4>more absurd than anything that came out of these people.

0:51:43.800 --> 0:51:47.600
<v Speaker 4>As you said, tell somebody a climate change doesn't exist,

0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:50.160
<v Speaker 4>and the immigrants all want to come and kill you,

0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:54.520
<v Speaker 4>And this isette what's more pernicious and who's really in

0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:55.080
<v Speaker 4>a cult?

0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:59.799
<v Speaker 3>And it's scary to see the same techniques that were

0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:02.480
<v Speaker 3>you use in their cult be used in our national

0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:03.839
<v Speaker 3>political dialogue as well.

0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:06.160
<v Speaker 4>Because I've been gone for so long, I thought I

0:52:06.680 --> 0:52:08.680
<v Speaker 4>was in a small little thing off in the middle

0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:11.759
<v Speaker 4>of nowhere. That's not how the world works. That's not

0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:16.440
<v Speaker 4>how things really go down. Well guess what it is anyway,

0:52:16.560 --> 0:52:17.680
<v Speaker 4>that's what I think about stuff.

0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:19.720
<v Speaker 6>Damn, that's amazing.

0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:23.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, we'll let you go soon. But where

0:52:23.400 --> 0:52:25.560
<v Speaker 2>did you land on your beliefs? Can I ask you

0:52:25.600 --> 0:52:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that I'm.

0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 4>A born again agnostic. We see so little of what

0:52:31.920 --> 0:52:36.400
<v Speaker 4>is out there. I think it's so ridiculous for me

0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:41.279
<v Speaker 4>to start saying how the universe is structured. Our galaxy

0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:44.960
<v Speaker 4>is just a spect on aspect un aspect right, and

0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:47.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm talking about the way the world works and what

0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:51.200
<v Speaker 4>God did this, this and that. I'm gonna have to

0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:55.080
<v Speaker 4>pass on all that and just say, can I treat

0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:59.360
<v Speaker 4>people with respect when I'm here and hopefully have a

0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:02.280
<v Speaker 4>positive impact. I know I got this, I got this life.

0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:04.640
<v Speaker 4>I don't know about any all the rest of that stuff,

0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:06.920
<v Speaker 4>and so I can only do the best I can

0:53:07.040 --> 0:53:09.560
<v Speaker 4>with this. I didn't think that was enough when I

0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:11.520
<v Speaker 4>was coming up, and now I know that it's more

0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:15.120
<v Speaker 4>than enough. It's more than I can possibly do anything.

0:53:15.239 --> 0:53:18.239
<v Speaker 4>I mean, God, everybody won't see themselves as a hero

0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:20.279
<v Speaker 4>or this, this and that I fall short of my

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:24.400
<v Speaker 4>own idea of myself every single day. Yeah, so I

0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:28.959
<v Speaker 4>got enough to do without sitting in a basement talking

0:53:28.960 --> 0:53:29.960
<v Speaker 4>about the end times.

0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, we're sitting in a basement talking about what

0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:37.840
<v Speaker 1>you know isn't true, because that can be equally religious, right, all.

0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:41.320
<v Speaker 4>The smugness of the atheistics, who I probably caught myself

0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:45.400
<v Speaker 4>more towards. I was very fortunate to live around the world,

0:53:45.680 --> 0:53:49.759
<v Speaker 4>and I know this. What you believe is the least

0:53:49.800 --> 0:53:54.360
<v Speaker 4>important thing about a person. What you do, that's what

0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:57.680
<v Speaker 4>really people believe all kinds of stuff. Whatever you want

0:53:57.719 --> 0:54:00.160
<v Speaker 4>to believe that, we're gonna you know, get it, the

0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:02.760
<v Speaker 4>UFOs and all this kind of stuff. What are you doing?

0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:06.719
<v Speaker 4>Whatever it is, you're compelled to improve this world. There

0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:09.479
<v Speaker 4>is nothing that doesn't need to be done. You want

0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:11.560
<v Speaker 4>to make more drinking water, we need that. You want

0:54:11.600 --> 0:54:14.440
<v Speaker 4>to save cats, We need people to do that. Let kids,

0:54:14.480 --> 0:54:16.239
<v Speaker 4>We need people to do that, whatever it is, and

0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:18.520
<v Speaker 4>you will never run out of stuff to do that thing.

0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:20.480
<v Speaker 4>So what are we arguing about?

0:54:20.760 --> 0:54:21.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:25.919
<v Speaker 1>Agreed, Yes, Yeah, I feel like I'm in church.

0:54:26.120 --> 0:54:28.160
<v Speaker 6>You're in church, preach.

0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:30.600
<v Speaker 4>Because you turn when your handles would be pleased to

0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:31.560
<v Speaker 4>pay thirty three.

0:54:31.880 --> 0:54:33.800
<v Speaker 6>Do we owe you all of our money?

0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:36.200
<v Speaker 5>That's what I need coming right up.

0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:39.239
<v Speaker 4>That's what it says. You can read it yourself rather

0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:41.880
<v Speaker 4>you can really just I don't want to read it

0:54:41.920 --> 0:54:43.200
<v Speaker 4>for you, but please.

0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:46.880
<v Speaker 3>I like the time that jingles, but a lot of

0:54:46.960 --> 0:54:47.720
<v Speaker 3>Courdent faults.

0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, this has been such a pleasure.

0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:54.279
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, thank you so much for talking to us, Glint.

0:54:54.520 --> 0:54:57.000
<v Speaker 4>Thank you for having me on the show. I really

0:54:57.040 --> 0:55:01.040
<v Speaker 4>appreciate it. I really appreciate by commune of cult teams.

0:55:01.080 --> 0:55:04.120
<v Speaker 4>Whatever we can get together and share some laughs. I

0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:07.000
<v Speaker 4>always appreciate it because we can speak in full speed

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:07.600
<v Speaker 4>to each other.

0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, that was great. I'm so happy we got him.

0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:16.000
<v Speaker 5>Thank you, Glenn.

0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:16.760
<v Speaker 6>He's so cool.

0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:21.560
<v Speaker 1>So cool, Megan. So what do you think would you join?

0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, Glenn was born into it, so

0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:26.920
<v Speaker 1>it's a bit of a different situation. Would you join

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:28.480
<v Speaker 1>the Worldwide Church of God?

0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:29.080
<v Speaker 5>Do you think?

0:55:29.480 --> 0:55:29.640
<v Speaker 7>No?

0:55:30.200 --> 0:55:30.680
<v Speaker 6>I would not.

0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:34.040
<v Speaker 2>It involves way too many things I don't like, like

0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:37.640
<v Speaker 2>giving all my money to people that aren't me.

0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.080
<v Speaker 1>And but don't all cults make you do that though?

0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:42.759
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's just sort of a built in.

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.920
<v Speaker 6>True But they think really took a lot.

0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:47.399
<v Speaker 5>They did.

0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Although look at Hoy, he gave them like four million

0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:51.440
<v Speaker 1>dollars or what I know.

0:55:51.680 --> 0:55:56.279
<v Speaker 2>I know, but Hoy had money, and Hoy was completely

0:55:56.800 --> 0:55:58.480
<v Speaker 2>exploited and so unfair.

0:55:58.600 --> 0:56:00.399
<v Speaker 6>But to be like a family on.

0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:05.400
<v Speaker 2>A farm giving your like money away is a whole

0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:08.840
<v Speaker 2>different beast in my mind. So I don't know that

0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:12.399
<v Speaker 2>that's fucked up. And I would be so mad if

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:15.320
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid and my parents were like giving

0:56:15.880 --> 0:56:18.719
<v Speaker 2>money that we needed to eat to this religion.

0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, the caveat that I will offer to that is

0:56:21.239 --> 0:56:27.319
<v Speaker 1>that many religions require a percentage of your income as tithing. Absolutely,

0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Mormonism requires ten percent of your gross income as well

0:56:32.120 --> 0:56:34.960
<v Speaker 1>as tithing. Such a strange setup to have ten percent

0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.040
<v Speaker 1>of it be for your own like fun, That's something

0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:41.600
<v Speaker 1>I've never heard of, like ever in theory. That's like

0:56:41.680 --> 0:56:44.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of a fun idea, like, oh, you know, you

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.520
<v Speaker 1>should devote a certain percentage of your income or your

0:56:47.560 --> 0:56:51.120
<v Speaker 1>life to like leisure and you know, self care or whatever.

0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:53.200
<v Speaker 5>Like there's something interesting.

0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:57.160
<v Speaker 1>In that idea, but as a requirement not so much.

0:56:57.400 --> 0:56:59.759
<v Speaker 1>It's more like, oh, if you want to like carve

0:56:59.800 --> 0:57:02.440
<v Speaker 1>out space in your life to make sure, it's not

0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:06.600
<v Speaker 1>all about work, yep, you know, but struggling families living

0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:08.520
<v Speaker 1>in poverty, very very different story.

0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:11.040
<v Speaker 6>Completely. It made me really sad that they had to

0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:11.399
<v Speaker 6>do that.

0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:14.239
<v Speaker 2>And everybody, like you said, everybody we've talked to, has

0:57:14.280 --> 0:57:17.120
<v Speaker 2>been exploited horrifically and it.

0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:18.040
<v Speaker 6>Just breaks your heart.

0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:22.400
<v Speaker 2>So no, didn't like it didn't involve like wigs and

0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:25.880
<v Speaker 2>magic and all that stuff. So I'm out, no nudity,

0:57:26.400 --> 0:57:29.440
<v Speaker 2>no right out the rituals exactly.

0:57:29.680 --> 0:57:33.360
<v Speaker 6>So it's not for me. But what a story.

0:57:33.600 --> 0:57:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Indeed, Well, I guess we'll just leave it at that

0:57:37.320 --> 0:57:38.560
<v Speaker 1>for this week, don't you think.

0:57:38.800 --> 0:57:41.919
<v Speaker 2>I think that might be all we can do. Thank

0:57:41.960 --> 0:57:44.640
<v Speaker 2>you for listening to trust me, have a wonderful week,

0:57:44.760 --> 0:57:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and remember to follow your gut, watch out for a flags, and.

0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:53.640
<v Speaker 5>Never, never ever trust me. Bye bye