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Speaker 1: You're about to listen to one of our favorite episodes

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Speaker 1: of trust Me from July fourteenth, twenty twenty one, about

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Speaker 1: Glenn Washington's experiences growing up in the apocalyptic religion the

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Speaker 1: Worldwide Church of God. If you're new here, follow the

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Speaker 1: show so you don't miss the July thirtieth return of

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Speaker 1: trust Me on the Exactly Right Network. If you have

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Speaker 1: your own story of being in a cult or a

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Speaker 1: high control group, or if you've had an experience with

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Speaker 1: manipulation or abuse of power you'd like to share, leave

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Speaker 1: us a message on our hotline number at five one

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Speaker 1: three nine hundred two nine five.

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Speaker 2: Five, or shoot us an email at trust Me pod

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we never.

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Speaker 4: Have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't Welcome to trust Me, the podcast about Colts, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and the abusive power from two former members who've

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Speaker 1: actually experienced it.

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Speaker 5: I am Lola.

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Speaker 6: Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: Today, our guest is Glenn Washington, whose voice you may

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Speaker 1: have heard already because he hosts Public Radio's storytelling show

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Speaker 1: Snap Judgment, which is so good as well as the

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Speaker 1: podcasts Heaven's Gate and Spooked, and probably more so. Glenn

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Speaker 1: is here with us today because he actually grew up

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Speaker 1: in an apocalyptic religious cult called the Worldwide Church of God.

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Speaker 1: He's going to tell us about what it was like

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Speaker 1: believing that the world could end at any minute, the

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Speaker 1: special trips members of the church would go on to

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Speaker 1: intentionally blow a huge chunk of their income, and how

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Speaker 1: thanks to the group's white supremacist ideologies, he wasn't allowed

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Speaker 1: to date outside of his own race. He's also going

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Speaker 1: to tell us about the book that began to change

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Speaker 1: his thinking, the trip that solidified that change, and what

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Speaker 1: he believes now. Very excited to get into that, but

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Speaker 1: before we do, Dearest Megan, what is the cultiest thing

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Speaker 1: that's happened to you?

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Speaker 5: This week?

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Speaker 2: My boyfriend's mom started selling a like skincare line. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's called Rodin and Fields or something. Everybody knows what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, but I don't know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: but I'm just going to act like I do.

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Speaker 2: It's a skincare line and she was like, you should

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Speaker 2: try it, and I was like, Okay, whatever, but I did, right,

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Speaker 2: and people keep saying up, my skin looks good and saying,

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Speaker 2: what are you using? And then I have to basically

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Speaker 2: give them like a cult spiel back.

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Speaker 5: Like a little little MLM.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm like, well, it's this thing. You order it online.

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Speaker 2: You can get a discount if you'd pay the seventy

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Speaker 2: five dollars and like all the shit, and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I thought, this is so embarrassing.

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Speaker 6: I need to just say I'm using like something else.

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Speaker 5: Have you found them any customers yet?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: You have?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, the great Yeah that's great. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you're embedded in a pyramid scheme now exactly.

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Speaker 5: So that's cool.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. Did anything as cult tea happen to

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Speaker 2: you this week?

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Speaker 1: Well, this week I have been dealing with the past

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Actually, I've been dealing with some physical problems. Okay,

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Speaker 1: health things, and they have to do with my bladder.

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Speaker 1: Oh tmi, a'all love me some TMI.

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Speaker 6: Why a flatter is sexy? They they touched the vaiba

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Speaker 6: to me?

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Speaker 1: Okay, oh my god, yes they do touch the vagina

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Speaker 1: and it's a fucking nightmare. But as a result of

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Speaker 1: these issues, and as a result of having terrible health insurance,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, don't even get me started on the fucking

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Speaker 1: stupid healthcare system in America. But I have been unable

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Speaker 1: to see a competent doctor. And so now I'm like

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Speaker 1: in a place where I am feeling rather desperate and

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Speaker 1: I feel like I am one hundred percent vulnerable in

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Speaker 1: this moment. I spoke to my friend's mom on the phone,

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Speaker 1: who's like a homeopathic.

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Speaker 5: Healer, which you know, is so.

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Speaker 1: Not something that I do. And if someone came up

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Speaker 1: to me and was like, Lola, I have the solution

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Speaker 1: for your thing. All you need is this five hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars program, I'd be like, I'm in.

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Speaker 5: I'm sold. I will join. Just make it stop, Just

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Speaker 5: someone make it stop.

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Speaker 6: Please. Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: That's where I'm at.

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Speaker 2: My old roommate, I remember once I came home and

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Speaker 2: she had all of these bottles of tequila and the

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Speaker 2: nice tequila, those like white and.

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Speaker 6: Blue bottle, weird bottles.

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Speaker 2: You know, And I was like, are you having a party,

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Speaker 2: And she was like, no, I went to a natural healer,

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Speaker 2: and she said, to cure my bladder infection, I need

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Speaker 2: to take a bath in tequila.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, that can't be true. You have

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Speaker 2: to not do it. But she did it and it

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Speaker 2: didn't go away.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, well that's I feel like generally what happens

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Speaker 1: when you see someone who's not a doctor.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes it's great.

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Speaker 1: Even actual doctors don't know what the fuck they're talking

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Speaker 1: about half of the time, which is what's especially maddening.

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Speaker 2: This is the true cultiest thing of the week. If

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Speaker 2: it was happening to men, there would be forty thousand cures.

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Speaker 6: It's not.

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Speaker 2: It's happening to women. So they're like, we don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's weird. Figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know so many women who are struggling

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Speaker 1: with recurring chronic mystery diseases that science is just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: needs more research.

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Speaker 2: You're imagining it probably stressed. Yeah, stop wiping from back

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Speaker 2: to front.

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Speaker 1: We're I'm like, oh, I am so fucking If another

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Speaker 1: doctor tells me that, I will scream. I know to

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Speaker 1: not I don't okay, not get disgusting, but we.

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Speaker 5: Know not to do that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, we do.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it's it's rough life over here, y'all. I

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Speaker 1: will survive. I'm a survivor. I'm gonna make it. I'm

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Speaker 1: a survivor, keep on surviving.

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Speaker 6: Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful, right, beautiful Dusty's child lyrics.

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Speaker 5: Okay, how about we start talking to Glenn.

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Speaker 6: Now sounds good. Let's do it. Let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Glenn Washington to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me here today. I

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Speaker 4: really appreciate it.

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Speaker 5: Ah, we really appreciate you coming on.

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Speaker 1: I am such a big fan of you and your

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Speaker 1: voice and your podcasts. You have such a soothing but

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Speaker 1: also incredibly engaging audio presence.

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Speaker 5: So I'm very excited.

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Speaker 4: What go on? Go on?

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Speaker 6: And now you can admire his face too.

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Speaker 2: We can see his face so wow, full package, no

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Speaker 2: make up, fill up.

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Speaker 5: I would never have known.

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Speaker 1: So. One thing that is a fun fact about you

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Speaker 1: as the host of Snap Judgment and other shows including

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Speaker 1: Heaven's Gates and Spooked, is that you yourself grew up

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Speaker 1: in a cult.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm a cult baby, that's for sure.

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Speaker 5: Cult baby gang.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you grew up in a group called the Worldwide

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Speaker 1: Church of God now called Grace Communion International. It was

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Speaker 1: founded by a man named Herbert w Armstrong, radio and

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Speaker 1: televangelist who built his following through religious broadcasts in the thirties,

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Speaker 1: forties and fifties. I actually listened to one this morning,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I found it very fascinating because it was

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Speaker 1: like from nineteen forty one or something, and he was

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Speaker 1: talking about how Hitler was evil, and I was like, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: if I heard that on the radio, I probably would

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Speaker 1: find that appealing. You know, can you please tell us

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Speaker 1: how your family came to be involved in this group.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting you were listening to something from nineteen

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Speaker 4: forty one, because I'm not sure if you listened to

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Speaker 4: the whole thing, but he probably would have said that

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Speaker 4: Hitler's wise foretold the end of the world and that

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Speaker 4: Jesus was going to come soon. That was something he

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Speaker 4: starts selling in the forties. He sold it again in

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Speaker 4: the fifties every so often the world was coming to

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Speaker 4: an end, and that he had a secret access to

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Speaker 4: unlock the Bible that no one else knew but him.

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Speaker 4: Herbert taught a very fundamentalist view of Christianity, and the

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Speaker 4: big thing was he would always say, it's prove all things,

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Speaker 4: go see it if it's in the Bible yourself, and

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Speaker 4: growing up that's what we did. We studying the Bible

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Speaker 4: In fact, as a kid, I spend a lot of

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Speaker 4: time memorizing the Bible.

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Speaker 3: That's something you can only do as a child.

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Speaker 4: Adults can't really do that, but you can do another kid,

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Speaker 4: memorize huge passes of the Bible.

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Speaker 5: Like how much of the Bible are we talking here?

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Speaker 3: Chapters and passages?

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Speaker 4: So much? I can't so many, so much stuff. The

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Speaker 4: church sponsored something called Bible Bowl. I'll just have y'all know.

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Speaker 4: I was the Bible Bowl champion of Michigan.

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Speaker 2: We are talking to the Bible Bowl champion.

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Speaker 3: The Bible Ball champion.

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Speaker 4: You better believe it. What passage? What did you say?

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Speaker 4: Jeremih ten verse three? I know, I know what.

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Speaker 2: It is so competitive about it.

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Speaker 6: It is so funny too.

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Speaker 4: Write competitive about not just reciting passes of the Bible.

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Speaker 4: Everyone had to basically follow along with the Bible when

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Speaker 4: you went to church. If the pastor says Zachariah is

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Speaker 4: three six, if you take longer than ten seconds to

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Speaker 4: turn there in your Bible, then that means you need

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Speaker 4: to study more because you should be able to just

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Speaker 4: flip to it right away.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And I say all that because yes, it was a

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Speaker 4: crazy cult.

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Speaker 3: Yes it was absurd yes, it was all these things.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, there was that element where

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Speaker 4: you had to go in and engulf yourself in this

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Speaker 4: book that you supposedly believed. It's been my experience that

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Speaker 4: since then, a lot of people claim to believe that

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Speaker 4: book who've never read.

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Speaker 6: It for sure, right, And.

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Speaker 4: As crazy as that crazy cult was, and it was insanity,

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Speaker 4: it was insanity squared, at least they read the book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, true.

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Speaker 4: And I think in reading the book, at least in

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Speaker 4: making that young generation that I was I grew up

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Speaker 4: in the church and making us memorize it, it kind

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Speaker 4: of sowed the scenes of their own destruction because later on,

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Speaker 4: if you tell my group of teenagers that it says

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Speaker 4: so and so and so in the Bible, I know it.

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Speaker 6: Doesn't Yeah right, where right?

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Speaker 4: I don't see you show me that way it says that,

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Speaker 4: And you're digging the hole in your own ship if

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Speaker 4: you do that. And that's what happened, And a lot

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Speaker 4: of people it's like prove all things. That's good if

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Speaker 4: you kind of have all a casual relationship with the book.

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Speaker 4: But once you get past that in a mediary period,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of things that's going to be hard

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Speaker 4: to prove.

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Speaker 2: Right, were you memorizing the Old Testament and the New

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Speaker 2: Testament or just the New Testament?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Old Testament and the New Testament. Okay, the Old

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Speaker 4: Testament is quoted one hundred and thirty seven times in

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Speaker 4: the New Testament. These books cannot be taken apart from

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Speaker 4: each other.

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Speaker 3: They are one in the holes was teaching, but it

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Speaker 3: is true.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I don't want to get too much

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Speaker 4: into theology because I've left obviously. I would just tell

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Speaker 4: you this when you start looking at the book, the

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Speaker 4: Old Testament and the New Testament together are extraordinary documents.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing that they were preserved and that you have them.

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Speaker 4: And then you have this look into the past, and

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Speaker 4: you have this idea of what people were thinking, what

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Speaker 4: they were grappling with, what they're wrestling with from a

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Speaker 4: theological from a political point of view, trying to create

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Speaker 4: a type of early history, and a sense of identity,

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Speaker 4: whatever you want to go on about. These are amazing books. Right.

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Speaker 4: What my question was, where'd they come from? Who wrote them?

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Speaker 4: Where did this thing come from? Wasn't I got past

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Speaker 4: the point? Well, well God wrote it? Well how did

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Speaker 4: that work? When I was on my way out. And

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Speaker 4: I'll get you a little bit later on when I

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Speaker 4: was on my way out from But when I was

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Speaker 4: on my way out, I asked my pastor that question. So,

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Speaker 4: who wrote these books? Where did they come from? And

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Speaker 4: to his credit, he gave me a book. It was

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Speaker 4: called Who Wrote the Bible? And this is when I

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Speaker 4: was in my late teens. And I read that book,

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Speaker 4: and I read it again and I was out, Wow,

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Speaker 4: it was kind of one of those things, and I

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Speaker 4: gotta I should explain.

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Speaker 3: What I was out from.

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Speaker 4: The Worldwide Church of God was an apocalyptic end of

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Speaker 4: Day's Jesus cult, which white supremacy elements thrown in. The

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Speaker 4: idea was that Herbert w Armstrong, who you mentioned, had

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Speaker 4: been given revelations directly by God that gave him special

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Speaker 4: understandings to unlock the kidden keys of the Bible, and

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Speaker 4: those hidden keys to his way of thinking were mainly prophetic,

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Speaker 4: and that he could tell that the end of days

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Speaker 4: was nighe and he had special ability to read world

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Speaker 4: events and pair them with the Bible and be able

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Speaker 4: to come up with what's going about to happen. And

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Speaker 4: you better get your act together now if you are

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Speaker 4: again a casual believer of the Bible, and you watch

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Speaker 4: world news and you hear somebody melding the two. That

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Speaker 4: can be very persuasive to somebody. Sure it says, here,

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Speaker 4: here's a beast power, and the beast power does this

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Speaker 4: is in that and it's an Eastern Europe and boy

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Speaker 4: that looks like Hitler, And this is what's going to

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Speaker 4: happen because it's foretold in the Bible, and this, this

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Speaker 4: and that, that's what we believe. But you go back further.

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Speaker 4: Herbert came from the Seventh Day Adventist tradition and he

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Speaker 4: also was an admin. Yes, right, he's an admin. So

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Speaker 4: when he went through his own searching when he left,

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Speaker 4: I think probably got kicked out of the Seventh Day

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Speaker 4: in Venice organizations and he started searching and basically created

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Speaker 4: his own situation. Christian based culture, you're generally going to

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Speaker 4: have somebody praying overnight and sweating and wrestling with the

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Speaker 4: truth or whatever it is before God speaks to him.

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Speaker 4: He has his own story of that where he was

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Speaker 4: filled with this type of enlightenment, almost a Joseph Smith

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Speaker 4: type story.

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Speaker 5: I was gonna say that, Yeah, this happens again.

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Speaker 4: And again and again, but he was an admin.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, do you think he believed it for real?

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Speaker 6: Or do you think he was just an admin?

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Speaker 4: It's such an interesting idea. A lot of the people

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Speaker 4: who I grew up with, we go back and forth.

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Speaker 4: Did he believe it for real? I still honestly don't know.

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Speaker 4: It got to be such madness. I'll say this. He

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Speaker 4: believed the money for real, right, He knew how to

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Speaker 4: make a pitch for real. He lived high on the

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Speaker 4: hog for real. He was one of the first sort

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Speaker 4: of people to justify buying an airplane for real.

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Speaker 1: An airplane, Wow, he had airplane money coming in. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was charging people thirty percent tithing right at different.

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Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, the thirty That was an innovation. So

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Speaker 4: but did he believe it? Did he believe it? I honestly,

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Speaker 4: I think that some people really love to hear themselves talk.

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Speaker 4: They can convince themselves of whatever it is. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 4: stuff ended up being so contradictory and ridiculous it's hard

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Speaker 4: to believe anyone believed it when you actually listen to

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Speaker 4: the words. But I think that maybe he did believe it.

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Speaker 4: I think he was one of those people who it

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Speaker 4: didn't matter he would make himself believe anything, and that

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Speaker 4: whatever he believed just happened to be for his own benefit, hery.

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Speaker 6: He was an ad man and customer.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, and if he needed to believe something else, we

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Speaker 4: can believe that too, right, right, But yes, you mentioned

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Speaker 4: the thirty percent. That was an innovation of the Worldwide

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Speaker 4: Church of God. Lots of people know about tithing, but

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Speaker 4: have you heard of the second time? We did not

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Speaker 4: celebrate Christmas, Easter, all those types of holidays that most

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Speaker 4: people who consider themselves in the Christian faith celebrate. We

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Speaker 4: celebrated Passover, Pentecost, the Day of Atonement, which was a

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Speaker 4: fasting day, which is essentially I'm kapoor. This is again

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Speaker 4: like he was taken from a lot of religions. These

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Speaker 4: are awesome, sometimes more associated with the Jewish faith, the

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Speaker 4: Feast of Tabernacles, the Last Great Day. These are our

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Speaker 4: holidays that nobody's ever heard of. And most of the

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Speaker 4: people who were drawn to this organization, they didn't have

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Speaker 4: a lot of money. I was in a rural community

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Speaker 4: and no one had a lot of money. But you

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Speaker 4: had number one. You had to tie. But because we

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Speaker 4: didn't celebrate Christmas, treing like that, the deal was we

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Speaker 4: had something different than Christmas, better than Christmas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah better, I said.

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Speaker 1: It, better than Christmas, better than Christmas.

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Speaker 4: It was called the Feast of Tabernacles. And so the

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Speaker 4: idea behind the Feast of Tabernacles is you saved ten

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Speaker 4: percent of your income. In addition to the tie, save

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Speaker 4: another ten percent of your income, and you keep it

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Speaker 4: and you go every October on a seven day festival

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Speaker 4: where you were commanded to blow it, to spend it

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Speaker 4: buck hotels, fancy dinners, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 3: Because the idea is that you are giving yourself a.

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Speaker 4: Taste of the world tomorrow, a taste of heaven on earth.

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Speaker 3: Wow, go and you blow it.

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Speaker 4: So imagine a poor family like us now again, I'll

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Speaker 4: put you in my position for a little bit. I'm poor.

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Speaker 4: I live in the middle of nowhere, rural Michigan, and

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Speaker 4: I'm in some religion that nobody understands. I feel very,

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Speaker 4: very isolated, especially at school and stuff like that. We

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Speaker 4: don't celebrate birthdays. I'm always talking weird stuff. I'm an

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Speaker 4: outsider just by default on almost every single thing I do.

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Speaker 4: Then they pulled me out of school in October because

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Speaker 4: we're going to the feast of tabernacles, which means we

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Speaker 4: load up our country squire station wagon and we get

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Speaker 4: in we start driving to we call it the festival location,

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Speaker 4: which is different sites all over the country. The closest

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Speaker 4: one to where we are in Michigan was usually in

359
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Speaker 4: Wisconsin westcontin Dell's area. There's a big place in Wisconsin,

360
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Speaker 4: Dallas that's a resort community. So before you start driving,

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Speaker 4: you have to put a green sticker on your car

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Speaker 4: that comes directly from headquarters in Pasadena, California. That lets

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Speaker 4: you know that you have all privileges to go to

364
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Speaker 4: this festival or whatever it may be. You put that

365
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Speaker 4: on your car and you start driving now again in

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Speaker 4: the middle of nowhere, middle of nowhere, and start driving.

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Speaker 4: Then you got ten percent of your entire income for

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Speaker 4: the year in your pocket. My dad.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's happy.

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Speaker 4: Like nobody ever asked me if I want to stop

371
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Speaker 4: them peck downald or something in the way that didn't

372
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Speaker 4: come up now, Yeah, I want to stop. Yeah, get

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Speaker 4: an extra fryn. Yeah, we're falling up in this piece.

374
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Speaker 4: I want the cheese. Put some cheese on, some extra cheese.

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Speaker 3: We start riding.

376
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Speaker 4: We start riding, and you're riding down the street, down

377
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 4: the road, down the highway, and it's like wait, wait, wait,

378
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 4: you see it off in the distance. There's another car

379
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 4: and you think you see they got a green stick

380
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 4: on their car too, and you try to pull up

381
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Speaker 4: beside them, and they got kids and you got kids.

382
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 4: When you're honking and waving them, they're not alone anymore.

383
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 4: There's another family with a green sticker. Now y'all going

384
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Speaker 4: to ride together. In fact, you might even pull off

385
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 4: the side and have kids go back and forth. And

386
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 4: then y'all keep on rolling. And then you keep rolling

387
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 4: some more, and you see another green sticker and another,

388
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 4: and they're closer. You get to the feast site, you're

389
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 4: seeing greensticker, greenstick of greenstick a green sticker. You're gone

390
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 4: from being alone in the middle of the wilderness to

391
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 4: being part of this excited, crazy, happy clan of people

392
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 4: who have got more money than they know what to

393
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Speaker 4: do with. And you get there.

394
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 3: You can stay in a hotel. I never stay no hotel.

395
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Speaker 4: You can stay in a hotel with a swimming pool,

396
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 4: what what? And everybody there and you can only stay

397
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 4: at select hotels that man deals with. So everybody you

398
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 4: see that's at that hotel is part of your group.

399
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 4: Every single person. You're not alone anymore. This is all

400
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 4: the kids, audi adults. Everybody is part of your group. Now,

401
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 4: go to Wisconsin Dells. They have a big facility. They

402
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 4: could see ten thousand people in this facility. Everybody again

403
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 4: is part of your thing. Now. Unfortunately you got to

404
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 4: go to church twice a day during this time period,

405
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 4: but the rest of the time is yours to go

406
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 4: out and do your thing. Now it's off season too,

407
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 4: so Wisconsin Dells, they're like thrilled in the middle of October.

408
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 4: What all these people running around? That's great, which is

409
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 4: good for us as well. Basically, if I saw somebody

410
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 4: going into the Wax Museum, I see somebody getting some

411
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 4: fudge there. Us. That's us, mus us. Everywhere I go,

412
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 4: it's just us. That's how you spent that money. You

413
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 4: spent that money for that time period. Now, of course

414
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 4: when you're there, they had something called number one, the

415
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 4: tithe of the tithe, so that ten percent you were

416
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 4: supposed to put ten percent of that it goes to

417
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 4: the church. And then they had something called you got

418
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 4: to new Offerings, and then you had excess tie, which

419
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 4: is like how much excess money have you ever had

420
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 4: excess money, but if you did, you got to get

421
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 4: out over there to them as well, put that in

422
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 4: the basket and then bring your broke ass home.

423
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Speaker 1: Wow. I mean, you did convince me that it's better

424
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: than Christmas other than the part where you go home

425
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: broke at the end.

426
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Speaker 5: Two church things a day.

427
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well I will say this as well.

428
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 4: This was technology like never before heard in the seventies

429
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 4: and the eighties. I'm a little kid, and there's like,

430
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 4: you know, seven to ten thousand people in this facility,

431
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 4: which is crazy.

432
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 3: And then they have these white coded.

433
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 4: Scientists people come up and they got all this technology,

434
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 4: and they got wires and cables and stuff. They would say, okay, everybody,

435
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 4: get ready to turn out all the lights and they

436
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 4: will project microwave transmission from Pasadena, California. So this is

437
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 4: back in the day. And you would see the church

438
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 4: in Pasadena, which is the headquarters thing. Like all good cults,

439
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 4: by the way, are based in California. So you see

440
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: the microwave transition. They're in Pasadena. And then they'll be like,

441
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 4: all right, is London online? Is Florida online? Is Saskatchewan?

442
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 4: You go around the world, you know, Tokyo Da and

443
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 4: everybody would lose.

444
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 3: Their shit because we're like.

445
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 4: I can't emphasize it up. You always felt alone, but

446
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 4: for this moment, you were part of a community and

447
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 4: wasn't even just this ten thousand people you were with.

448
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 4: It was people all around the world saying they can

449
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 4: see the microwave transmission from Pasadena, California. And everybody was

450
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 4: sing everybody was sing and you felt like you were

451
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 4: singing with people all around the world.

452
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 6: Wow, I mean you were. It's beautiful in a way.

453
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that must have been a powerful communeral moment and

454
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: a beautiful reprieve from your general loneliness.

455
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 5: I mean, I totally get the appeal of that.

456
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that, and that was I just say

457
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 4: out have to say that's where our second tithe went.

458
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 4: The third time every three years, you were supposed to

459
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 4: come up with another ten percent.

460
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: Now again, this is ten percent of your gross Like.

461
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 6: This is pre tax I know, I'm thinking, like, you.

462
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: Guys get ten percent at the end of taxes and everything.

463
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: I don't understand how anyone's supposed to live.

464
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 6: Right.

465
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 4: Well, let's just say some people weren't exactly as exacting

466
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 4: about throwing that in as they could have been. People were,

467
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 4: A lot of people were. A lot of people were not.

468
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 4: If we didn't do any tithing, we will still be broke.

469
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 4: So I don't know how in the world that was

470
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 4: gonna work for us.

471
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 5: We're in Michigan. Did you grow because I also grew

472
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 5: up in rural Michigan.

473
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm gonna do this right here, ladies and gentlemen,

474
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 4: I'm showing the hand Michigan. So the hand to each

475
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: other to show them where they grew up. But I

476
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 4: was born in Detroit. I lived there twice five until

477
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 4: we moved to the Thumb of Michigan. I moved here,

478
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 4: Oh the Thumb, Kingston Caro a near Bay City, this

479
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 4: type of area. This is where I was a farmer, Marlette, Michigan. Okay,

480
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 4: crazy story from there. Lived in the Midland area for

481
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 4: a while Mount Pleasant, then went to high school in

482
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: the Grand Rappert area before going to the University of Michigan.

483
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: Oh As, I grew up an hour north of Grand

484
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: Rapids in a little town called Newego.

485
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 6: Do you know Grand Haven, Lola, Grand Haven? No, because

486
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 6: that's where I grew up for a while.

487
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 5: Wait, what a bunch of established this yeah, I was

488
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 5: on a farm.

489
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 6: Do you know where Grand Haven is?

490
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 4: Glenn? Of course I know where Grand Haven is.

491
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 6: Wow, okay, all right, Yeah you grew up in a farm.

492
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Blow up.

493
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 5: I grew up on a farm. Yeah.

494
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: Wow, Michigan unrelated to my CULTI experience. We just happened

495
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: to be on a farm before my cult experience.

496
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 5: But yeah, that's cool. Wow wow, look at us.

497
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 4: Well then, Lolo, we got more than I thought in comment.

498
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 4: Good Lord, Yeah, I know very well where you grew up.

499
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: Our cult that we meet in every week was in

500
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 4: Grand Rapids. It included your area.

501
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 6: Oh so oh yeah, interesting.

502
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: Because I was just a regular Mormon when I was

503
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: living in Michigan before, like pre cult, when our church

504
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: situation was weird, we had to go to Grand Rapids

505
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: for our like Mormon church.

506
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 6: So look at that. Curious.

507
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 5: So there was this prophecy.

508
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: About nineteen seventy five, but you keep saying late seventies,

509
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: So did you join after this prophecy year was already done?

510
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: I was like really tiny during then, so I missed

511
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 4: that kind of situation. I mean, I think that nineteen

512
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 4: seventy five things what drew my mother in for the

513
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 4: first place, Like oh my god, nineteen seventy five, that's

514
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 4: to be the end. But then when nineteen seventy five

515
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 4: came and went, they stopped mentioning that. And so every

516
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 4: church basically had a library of books that were written

517
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 4: by Herbert w Armstrong that you can kind of check

518
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 4: out or whatever, and some of those books would disappear,

519
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 4: like it was very very hard in the eighties to

520
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 4: find the nineteen seventy five in Prophecies books that'd be

521
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 4: out of circulation, right, they took that out of circulations, right,

522
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: But then somebody would find it at home or something

523
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: like that, that in some back room or something like that,

524
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 4: and they get to, you know, fussing at us about

525
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 4: we got to do right because of prophecy and something

526
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 4: like that, and they're like, what prophecy, huh, well this

527
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy five and prophecy, where did you get that?

528
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: Where do you get that? That book? That's that why

529
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 4: they don't update it. They updated of whatever, they had

530
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 4: new revelations something I don't know, I don't remember exact terminology,

531
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 4: but I remember they did not appreciate teenagers in the

532
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 4: eighties taking out the nineteen seventy five book and prophecy

533
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 4: and waving that around. I know that for sure.

534
00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 5: I am sure.

535
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: So they're like, oh, JK, wasn't then, but it's going

536
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: to happen soon.

537
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: This is what's crazy about it.

538
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: Like you mentioned that you heard something from nineteen forty one,

539
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 4: they would call dates specifically the world's gonna end such

540
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 4: and such and such and such, nineteen forty one, nineteen

541
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 4: forty five, nineteen fifty six, nineteen this is the net.

542
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 4: I think nineteen seventy four the Prophecy Book was they

543
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 4: finally learned a lesson. It's said soon instead of calling

544
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 4: specific dates.

545
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

546
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 4: I do remember this being in Midland, Michigan, which apparently

547
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 4: all of us know when I was a little kid.

548
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 4: And I'm saying, Bretherd, if you think we're gonna make

549
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: it through the end of the eighties without seeing the

550
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: return of the Lord Jesus Christ, well you got another

551
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 4: thing coming. So that was an exact date. And I

552
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 4: will say what's interesting as well. I was like, there

553
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 4: were some people this was not technically supported by official

554
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 4: church doctrine, but there were several respected brethren and lay

555
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 4: ministers or whatever. I remember going to one person's house.

556
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 4: I don't know I was trying to get out of this.

557
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 4: I don't know how they caught me in this basement.

558
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: I was one of my buddy's dads and he's got

559
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 4: a chopboard and he's taken us through. Okay, it's nineteen

560
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 4: eighty whatever. And you were divided that by the year

561
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: of completion, which is six times the Tower of Babel

562
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: and the sun spots, and you turn that upside down

563
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: with the number of pages in the original King James

564
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 4: version of Bible, and then you get to the end.

565
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: Time is going to be June seventeenth, nineteen eighty six,

566
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 4: something like that. We had the date. He said, okay,

567
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: put that down, and it's like any question. And I

568
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 4: was just like, man, you got to let me.

569
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: About this piece. I don't know what's going on.

570
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: Especially as young kids at the time, we thought that

571
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: was mad crazy. I was told as a kid that

572
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: I would not graduate high.

573
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 6: School because you'd be gone to heaven.

574
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: I'd be gone, Yeah, yeah, I'd be gone.

575
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be married, I wouldn't have a family, I

576
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 4: wouldn't do any of that kind of stuff because that

577
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 4: will just with in the card for me.

578
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: And did you believe that, Like, how fervent of a

579
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: believer were you as a kid?

580
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: I believe the general idea.

581
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 4: I had a lot of quibbles about specifics, and I

582
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: had a lot of quibbles about the.

583
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 3: Racial situation there.

584
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 4: I thought that they were crazy racists, but I thought

585
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: that the overall idea of the Bible that they had

586
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: that they were doing was right.

587
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: I did believe that.

588
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 5: Did you know any other black families in this church? Reason?

589
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 4: Only there were a couple. This is crazy.

590
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you something.

591
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: This is the deal. I'm a young man, you know,

592
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 4: doing what young men do. The problem was like in

593
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: our area there were no black girls, and the interracial dating.

594
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: And fragnization like that was forbidden. It was evil or whatever.

595
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 4: And I thought, you know, hey, I like sisters, just fine,

596
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: but there aren't any of them over here. I don't

597
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: know what y'all want me to do. It really sucked.

598
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: It really really sucked. But there's a Lanting church, and

599
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 4: that Lanting church they had one black girl there, and

600
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 4: so I was supposed to, Oh, there's one for you, great.

601
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 6: Wow.

602
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 4: She was actually very cute, very cool. But she was

603
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 4: in the same fix, right. But I think her father

604
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 4: was white and it was by coming before they got

605
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 4: into the church or something like that. And I didn't

606
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 4: know any of that stuff. She was black. To me,

607
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: I was like, cool, well, you know, I don't know leader.

608
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: But she pulled a backstage past just what she did.

609
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: So there was a secret policy for people who are

610
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 4: They called it determined racial classification. And what you could

611
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: do is they call it the look see administrative review,

612
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: which meant that you would send a picture into headquarters

613
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 4: the pastating of California and they would look and they

614
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: would see her how to classify you're sorry, wow. And

615
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: so what she did was she got a picture of her,

616
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 4: put on a lot of extra flash in the picture,

617
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 4: and she sent it into passing in California, and they

618
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 4: came back and they said, for all privileges and rights,

619
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 4: you are now Caucasian and this is not. And so

620
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 4: the one black girl in the area she got reclassified

621
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 4: by look see wow. I say all that to say,

622
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 4: so I was out of love. I was out of luck.

623
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: Right now, I say, I'll have to say this. I'll

624
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 4: just fast forward little bit. We'll get back to it.

625
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: But I fasted for a little bit. I left the organization.

626
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: I lived in Japan, for a long time, lived in Malaysia,

627
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 4: went to law school at University of Michigan, and my

628
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: second year of law school, I was having a party

629
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 4: for grad students of color at my place and it

630
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 4: was just a dumb excuse to meet women, but it

631
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 4: worked out great. So people start filing in their filing

632
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: in and filing in, and I see this beautiful black girl.

633
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: So I go over there. I started talking to her.

634
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: And I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, Well I

635
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 4: know you, and she said like, that is not a

636
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 4: very good line.

637
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: You know, you need to.

638
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: Game a little bit.

639
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm for real, I'm real.

640
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 4: And then it hit me and then I sang a

641
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: hymno from our church, Last and Happy.

642
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 7: She looked at me and it was her this look,

643
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 7: see no, Well yeah, my god.

644
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 4: Now I might forget a name, but I don't forget

645
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: a face.

646
00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 6: Did you guys talk about it?

647
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 4: We did.

648
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: We laughed ourselves silly that night.

649
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

650
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 4: And I told her how much I didn't appreciate those

651
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 4: tricks she was pulling back in the day. And she's like, well,

652
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: I don't want to relitigate the past, but.

653
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 6: That's funny.

654
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 4: It was hilarious.

655
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 5: She gained the system.

656
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: That's kind of great, But what a crazy premise like

657
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: for you to even be in this group.

658
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 5: I mean, like, yeah, what was that?

659
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: Like?

660
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 5: How did you feel about that?

661
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 4: I advise all the kids I see these days don't

662
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 4: grow up in a coat.

663
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 6: We do too, Yeah, a strong recognation that we have.

664
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 5: Also, don't join one as an adult.

665
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 4: You know.

666
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: That's also not.

667
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 4: Great people coming the other way. Yeah, it was tough.

668
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: It was difficult, especially the ramifications of a lot of it.

669
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 4: We cut off my family, extended family, my cousins, and

670
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: that really hurt, and it still hurts that I have

671
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 4: a deeper golf with them than I should because of

672
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 4: that cult stuff. I had to always avoid them or

673
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 4: sometimes we would go for almost a year without having

674
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: contact with them because the church said to.

675
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 3: And that was just hurtfault.

676
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 6: It sucks.

677
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: Did that apply to you like at school as well?

678
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: Were you're not supposed to like hang out with outsider

679
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: kids or was this just a family thing?

680
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 4: No, you could. I just had a bunch of rules

681
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 4: that basically made it, and people didn't want to hang

682
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 4: out with me.

683
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: I mean it was hard to classify.

684
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: I'm already in rule Michigan I'm black, I'm a crazy farmer.

685
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 4: We're broke.

686
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 6: You have the entire Bible memorized.

687
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 4: I got to please. I'm memorizing the Bible. I'm telling

688
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 4: kids the truth about Santa Claus.

689
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 6: Oh me too, that's my problem too.

690
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: But like if you have a birthday party, I can't participate.

691
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 4: I got to go stand in the hall of what

692
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 4: everybody's eating cake. You're creating a social outcast. Put just

693
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: one of those things and you're gonna have trouble. Had

694
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 4: a bunch of stuff going on. It was tough. It

695
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: was just really really tough. But I did have friends

696
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: at the church. We spent a lot of time together.

697
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 4: It wasn't like we're in a compound situation, but because

698
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,479
Speaker 4: you meet so much, Like if you're meeting four five

699
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 4: times a week, you might as well be in a compound, right,

700
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: you know, that's kind of what you do. I went

701
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 4: to regular school, but it was just a lot. It

702
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: was a lot.

703
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, man, being a kid is hard enough.

704
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: Making friends is hard enough as it is, just like

705
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: being someone who does fit in in theory.

706
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: I added, and the special little thing of telling everybody

707
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: I met who was wearing makeup or anything that they

708
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: were going to hell.

709
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 6: So that was a fun little.

710
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

711
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 4: I would talk about how hot the fire was gonna be,

712
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 4: you know that type of stuff.

713
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 6: Man, Sam.

714
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, see, I just had those thoughts privately, not to

715
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: alienate the children at school.

716
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 6: For I wish I would have known.

717
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, So did you ever actually meet Herbert or No?

718
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 4: I did A couple of times. He would come through

719
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: and be a big deal and we kind of get

720
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: in a line and we go and meet him and

721
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 4: we kind of stand in the line. He wrote a

722
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 4: book almost a year, whatever new book it was, and

723
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 4: oftentimes he would fly around and hand out these books

724
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 4: like prizes to the brethren. And I met him a

725
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 4: couple times, Like I mean, when I think met him,

726
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 4: I was in a line and I saw him.

727
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 6: Or something like that, or shook his hand like a

728
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 6: book signing.

729
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, a book signing, that's right. It was a book signing.

730
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 4: That's that what we called it.

731
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was something like that.

732
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 5: Did he seem like special to you?

733
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 4: Like?

734
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 5: What did you think I did me that?

735
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 4: I was a very little kid when I saw him,

736
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: and they were like, look, don't pull any of your tricks.

737
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 4: We get up to meet this great man. You know,

738
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 4: you stand up straight, you look them in the eye,

739
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 4: and you're meeting an apostle. And this is a big deal.

740
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 4: You're meeting an apostle, the.

741
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 5: Last Apostle, right, that's what he would call him.

742
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 3: The last Apostle.

743
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 2: Yes, Wow, there's two witnesses that are left correct and

744
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: he's one of them.

745
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 4: Well, that was the whole deal that you know this stuff, man,

746
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 4: this is what I'm talking about. So the Bible speaks

747
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 4: of the end time being two witnesses that are going

748
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: to preach until the final days. The old deal was

749
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 4: that he would see that he was probably one of

750
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 4: the witnesses, but we didn't know who the second one was.

751
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: And that was my aspiration.

752
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 4: I thought, if I got these Bible verses right, and

753
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 4: I did the right thing and got right with Jesus,

754
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 4: I would be the second witness because wow, he's old anyway,

755
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: he was always old from from the fact that he's

756
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 4: always been old as hell. So I thought, you know,

757
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: maybe I could slide in. They're gonna need somebody younger

758
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 4: and charismatic, and a brown wouldn't hurt, maybe, you know,

759
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 4: to kind of help get that second witness.

760
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 2: So you had that like kind of on your shoulders, like, oh,

761
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to be the second.

762
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: It was an aspiration, Yeah, it was an aspiration. I

763
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 4: didn't see anybody else that seemed to fit the bill,

764
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 4: so I thought maybe I could do it.

765
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk on other podcasts about how you

766
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: you're dealing with all this stuff and all this isolation,

767
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you felt really special, And

768
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: that's something that I can certainly relate to, because at

769
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: one point in time I thought that my mom and

770
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: I were the only two people on earth who knew

771
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: about this prophet and this second coming that was happening.

772
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 4: Wow.

773
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, can you talk about that special feeling?

774
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,479
Speaker 1: And I mean clearly you felt special if you thought

775
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: you were going to be potentially the second Abustle.

776
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 5: Or the second Witness.

777
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. Wow, I really did feel, like I guess said.

778
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: I had a lot of issues with various things, but

779
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 4: I thought that we were being revealed a special truth

780
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 4: that no one else knew. Because in the Bible, the

781
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 4: end Time talks about saving one hundred and forty four

782
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 4: thousand people who would go and meet Jesus in the end,

783
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 4: and one hundred and forty four thousand people isn't a

784
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 4: lot of people.

785
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 3: And you look around and you see.

786
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 4: All these people. They're all gonna burn. They're all gonna

787
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 4: burn in this tribulation that's coming. Our idea was we

788
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: thought that this big war was imminent and that we

789
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 4: were gonna be wisked off to a place of safety.

790
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 4: That people speculated it was Petra, that we're gonna go

791
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 4: to Petra for some reason and live in a cave

792
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 4: for three and a half years and then Jesus was

793
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: gonna come. As an aside, let me just just say this.

794
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: When we were living in the Grand Rapids area at

795
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: one point, this is rare. In my household, there was

796
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 4: just nobody there. No one was at my house. And

797
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: my little brother was in the bed taking a nap

798
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 4: in the middle of the afternoon, like four in the

799
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: afternoon something like that.

800
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: And it was my big chance. He's a year younger

801
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: than me.

802
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 4: So I went downstairs and I started screaming, you got

803
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 4: to go to seven eleven because everybody's going to the

804
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 4: place of safety and you got to get there right now.

805
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 4: And me to Jesus warriors, they're gonna take you to Petra.

806
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: I'll meet you there, just waiting the parking lot is

807
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 4: send eleven. So he wakes if out of the sleep

808
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 4: and he takes his bike and he goes off to eleven.

809
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 4: And it gets to be dinner time, and my mom

810
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: and dad asked me, like, where's your brother at I

811
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: don't know when he came back. He was hot.

812
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 3: He was hot.

813
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 6: That prank has every layer on it.

814
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, just every single layer that a

815
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 2: prank could hide.

816
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 4: So mean crazy anyway, Yes, I felt special, I felt chosen.

817
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 4: I felt sorry for people who didn't have the special knowledge.

818
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 4: You know, I'm really did. And I remember too when

819
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 4: I had left organization. When you first leave it, I

820
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 4: still think that fire is going to rain down from

821
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 4: heaven for me or what it may be. But I

822
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 4: tried to escape, and I ended up getting this fellowship

823
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 4: to go study in Asia.

824
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: I was living in Japan.

825
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 4: It's this area that had never seen any foreigners really,

826
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 4: and my Japanese is at the time basically non existent.

827
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: And I'm trying to ask me what I believed and

828
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 4: what my religion was, and I'm trying to explain it

829
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 4: in Japanese to them, and they.

830
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 3: Would laugh and laugh and laugh.

831
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: I remember me at bars and I'm listening to myself

832
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: speak like a two year older about what my beliefs are,

833
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 4: and I'm laughing at myself because it sounds so freaking stupid,

834
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 4: but it was the truth. I will be forever grateful

835
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 4: for that experience. I think that trying to explain what

836
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 4: you really believe in a different language, it just gives

837
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 4: you a slightly different perspective on what the words coming

838
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 4: out of your mouth. What did I just say? That

839
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 4: don't make any kind of sense?

840
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: Did you tell them you thought that the end was

841
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: coming at any more?

842
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 4: I probably did, But we were near the end times,

843
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 4: and this book had the prophecies that foretold what we're

844
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 4: going through right now, and I probably said a lot

845
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 4: of things that were baffling me, that were literally baffling

846
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 4: me even as I came out of my mouth. Wow.

847
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 3: But the crazy thing is that, yes, I felt special

848
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: coming up.

849
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: But even when I abandoned that belief system, I felt

850
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 4: like I was Harry Potter and everybody else was a muggle, right,

851
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 4: I really did. I felt like I had to force

852
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 4: Even after I abandoned that belief system, that feeling didn't

853
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 4: necessarily go away for good or ill. And my current

854
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 4: sort of model of the world of the universe. That

855
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 4: feeling makes no sense, It really doesn't. Yeah, but there it.

856
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 5: Is, right, I mean, I relate to that so hard.

857
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: Not to shout out my own writing, but I wrote

858
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: about my cult experience five years ago or something, and

859
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: it specifically talks about the feeling of being special and

860
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: how once I no longer had those beliefs, I needed

861
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: to find some other outlet for my feelings of specialness,

862
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: and so I pursued music full time because I was like, well,

863
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: I'm clearly special in some way and have to make

864
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: my mark on the world, and if it's not because

865
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm chosen to save the world, it's going to be

866
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: through my music or whatever.

867
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 5: You know, totally totally get that.

868
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: Do you have that, Megan, Yeah, for sure, Yeah, I

869
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: don't know.

870
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:39,479
Speaker 6: In my mind, I think like.

871
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: Everybody probably feels a little bit like that from some

872
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: different way in childhood.

873
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 6: They you know, like I'm the best at this, I'm this,

874
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 6: I'm that.

875
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, but definitely we have an exaggerated version

876
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: of that. I'm sure I feel very separate from the

877
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:53,959
Speaker 2: rest of the world, for sure.

878
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's true.

879
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: Well, especially in la probably a lot of Yeah, I

880
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: feel exactly special.

881
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 6: That's probably my reference.

882
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, Glenn, can you tell us about that

883
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: process of leaving?

884
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 5: So you read this book? Who wrote the Bible?

885
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: And what were the revelations that you had and how

886
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: long did that process take and what was going on?

887
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. I read the book and knew that this wasn't

888
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 4: really for me, But the people I was still close

889
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: to were my friends that were in that organization. Those

890
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 4: are my people, and I didn't want to leave them.

891
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 4: And more importantly, I guess in a different way, if

892
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 4: you leave the church, everyone is obligated to this fellowship you,

893
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 4: which means basically shun you and not talk to you

894
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 4: and disassociate with you. I didn't want that to happen

895
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 4: to me, but I really didn't necessarily wanted to happen

896
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: to them. That process is just so hard and jarren

897
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: and weird and crazy and hurtful, and a few of

898
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 4: us in the past when we're oh, you don't talk

899
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 4: to them anymore or something like that, we wouldn't do it.

900
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 4: That's one of the things where we would try to

901
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 4: not go along with the program on. But it's hard

902
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 4: to say to someone that you've grown up with since

903
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 4: the little kid. Now you're supposed to just fellowship me.

904
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 4: I'm not not part of that thing anymore. It sounds

905
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 4: weird because I was almost ready for it. But it's like,

906
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 4: do you want to impose that on somebody else? Because

907
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 4: when you leave, it's not just you leaving, and you

908
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 4: do that to your family, and it's just a ramifications

909
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 4: about that that happened at the age I was when

910
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 4: it was happening, was in my late teens. You're supposed

911
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 4: to get baptized. Everybody got baptized. I didn't do that,

912
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 4: And I kept on asking me when I'm gonna be back. Oh,

913
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 4: you know, don't think about that. That's interesting anyway, what's

914
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 4: for lunch service situation? I go back again to that

915
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 4: whole going to Japan thing. I had left again. It

916
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 4: hurt people, and I remember I was sure. I was

917
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 4: absolutely sure this is the right thing to do. But

918
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 4: when I remember when I told people that I was

919
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 4: doing it, I felt the sky was going to open

920
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 4: up and rain down fire.

921
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 5: Meaning leaving the church or leaving for Japan.

922
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 3: Leaving the church, leaving the church.

923
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: But then when I did go to Japan, I flew

924
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 4: into Tokyo, got on a train, took a bus, another train,

925
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 4: taxi got to my new place where there's a thunderstorm

926
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 4: going on out there. I don't know the city I'm in.

927
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 4: I've never been there before. I don't speak a word

928
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 4: of the language. I don't even know how to use

929
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 4: a phone in Japan. My parents don't know what city

930
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 4: I'm in. But I go to my new apartment and

931
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 4: the phone is ringing. The phone is ringing. I'll surprise

932
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 4: somebody I picked up. I was like hello, and I'm

933
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 4: back to someone to be surprised, the wrong number whatever.

934
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 4: And they're like, hello, this is so and so from

935
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 4: the Blobi Church of God, and we heard us in

936
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 4: Japan right now. I want to know that. You know,

937
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 4: we have meetings such and such down and such and such.

938
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 4: I was like, there's a bad I can't really hear

939
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 4: what y're saying. But click, yeah, that happened. How they

940
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 4: got I couldn't do it. I don't know. Nobody knew

941
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 4: where I was. I didn't know where I was.

942
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 5: WHOA that is creepy.

943
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 6: Yep, that's like stucking you.

944
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 4: You got to get that money some kind of way.

945
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 3: You gotta have the systems in place.

946
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: How do you even do that before the Internet? It

947
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: doesn't even compute in my brain.

948
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 4: This is what I will say. Let me leave you

949
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 4: with this. When I first started Snamp Judgment. If people

950
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 4: don't know, Snamp Judgment is a public radio show, it's

951
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 4: a stage show. We've done some television work. This is

952
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: a decade ago. We want to be really The time

953
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 4: award was multimedia want to be really crazy. Multimedia was

954
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 4: built into the DNA of the launch. There was a magazine,

955
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 4: which is really dumb. We didn't want anyone to see

956
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 4: that part, but we had to do it for the

957
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 4: grand all this stuff. But when I was initially pulling

958
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 4: together the initial business plan for it, our initial funder

959
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 4: was a corporation for public broadcasting, and somebody, wow, this

960
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 4: is a lot of stuff. We wanted to do some

961
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 4: work and see if there's any other people who've kind

962
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 4: of combined the same sort of multimedia thing into one

963
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 4: unit that you've done before. And somebody came and said, well,

964
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 4: there's this guy, Herbert w.

965
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: Or Armstrong who did something like this.

966
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 4: I'm just like, as fast as you run, as far

967
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 4: as you run, you end up right back where you started.

968
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 4: I almost lost my mind, and someone came out here

969
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: with just Herbert w Armstrong stuff. Have you ever heard

970
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 4: of a Herbert w Armstrong? Yes, I heard him. I

971
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 4: don't want to do that. What was interesting about leaving

972
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 4: in the first place is when you do leave. I

973
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: grew up in this crazy organization, and when I was leaving,

974
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 4: I felt stupid, I felt tricked, I felt angry, I

975
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 4: felt like I had wasted my youth, and I felt

976
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 4: all those things. And I felt as well that the

977
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 4: only thing I really knew anything about was how to

978
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 4: run a cult, how to be in a cult. That's

979
00:48:59,120 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 4: what I knew.

980
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't want to do that, but so why not?

981
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 4: Yeah I didn't. There's enough cause I didn't want to

982
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 4: do that. But that was where the whole storytelling evolved from.

983
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 4: I realized I did learn something from those clowns. I

984
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 4: was trying to find a positive takeaway from my time

985
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 4: with them.

986
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 3: The only thing that kept us in those seats all

987
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: those many years listening to all that crazy stuff was

988
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 3: a collective sense of story, a shared story, And so

989
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 3: I know firsthand how important narrative is. A narrative can

990
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 3: make you do the most ridiculous thing. A narrative can

991
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 3: make you give away thirty percent of your income even

992
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 3: though you're broke. A narrative can think you think that

993
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 3: the world's gonna end next week. And a narrative can.

994
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 4: Make you come back to a church even though they

995
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 4: said Jesus is gonna be there last week and he

996
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 4: didn't show up. We can make you come back again

997
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: the next week after that and the next week after that.

998
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 4: Narratives and a shared story is maybe the most powerful

999
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 4: thing of all. And so I think that they really

1000
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 4: did give me something, like we're all in this line.

1001
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 4: People oftentimes think all those culties are crazy. I wouldn't

1002
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 4: join the colt. I wouldn't do that, and maybe you wouldn't.

1003
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 4: Maybe you would. But honestly, I don't see them as

1004
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 4: those others that oftentimes they're depicted up at the media

1005
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 4: or wherever. I know that they're regular people. Often sometimes

1006
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 4: they're really good people who have a desire to follow

1007
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 4: their convictions. And that's sometimes twisted in turn by a

1008
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 4: charlatan in a certain way. And it's a shame to

1009
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 4: see someone who with a good heart have that turn

1010
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 4: on them, have that very sense of search and seeking

1011
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: that they have turn on them, I gues it's a

1012
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 4: real evil thing to do to somebody. I think it's

1013
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 4: a real, a wondrous type of evil.

1014
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And instead.

1015
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 4: Of being I guess mad in the same way, I'm

1016
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 4: grateful my background is such that I don't have to

1017
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 4: other those people. And hopefully if you meet someone where

1018
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 4: they are, you can lead them away from some of

1019
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 4: this stuff.

1020
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 3: And at least that was my thought. I would just

1021
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: say this.

1022
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 4: People want to make fun of religious cults or whatever,

1023
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 4: but we just had a national cult, you know, wanted

1024
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 4: to desecrate the Capitol building, run around crazy doing the stuff.

1025
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 4: I would say that the cult I grew up in

1026
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 4: was far less pernicious than this national cult that we've

1027
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 4: just been experiencing. And nothing that we believed was anything

1028
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 4: more absurd than anything that came out of these people.

1029
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 4: As you said, tell somebody a climate change doesn't exist,

1030
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 4: and the immigrants all want to come and kill you,

1031
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 4: And this isette what's more pernicious and who's really in

1032
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 4: a cult?

1033
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 3: And it's scary to see the same techniques that were

1034
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 3: you use in their cult be used in our national

1035
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 3: political dialogue as well.

1036
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 4: Because I've been gone for so long, I thought I

1037
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 4: was in a small little thing off in the middle

1038
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 4: of nowhere. That's not how the world works. That's not

1039
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 4: how things really go down. Well guess what it is anyway,

1040
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: that's what I think about stuff.

1041
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 6: Damn, that's amazing.

1042
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we'll let you go soon. But where

1043
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: did you land on your beliefs? Can I ask you

1044
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 2: that I'm.

1045
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 4: A born again agnostic. We see so little of what

1046
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 4: is out there. I think it's so ridiculous for me

1047
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 4: to start saying how the universe is structured. Our galaxy

1048
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 4: is just a spect on aspect un aspect right, and

1049
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 4: I'm talking about the way the world works and what

1050
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 4: God did this, this and that. I'm gonna have to

1051
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 4: pass on all that and just say, can I treat

1052
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 4: people with respect when I'm here and hopefully have a

1053
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 4: positive impact. I know I got this, I got this life.

1054
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 4: I don't know about any all the rest of that stuff,

1055
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 4: and so I can only do the best I can

1056
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 4: with this. I didn't think that was enough when I

1057
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 4: was coming up, and now I know that it's more

1058
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 4: than enough. It's more than I can possibly do anything.

1059
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 4: I mean, God, everybody won't see themselves as a hero

1060
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 4: or this, this and that I fall short of my

1061
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 4: own idea of myself every single day. Yeah, so I

1062
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,959
Speaker 4: got enough to do without sitting in a basement talking

1063
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 4: about the end times.

1064
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: Yeah right, we're sitting in a basement talking about what

1065
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: you know isn't true, because that can be equally religious, right, all.

1066
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 4: The smugness of the atheistics, who I probably caught myself

1067
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 4: more towards. I was very fortunate to live around the world,

1068
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 4: and I know this. What you believe is the least

1069
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 4: important thing about a person. What you do, that's what

1070
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 4: really people believe all kinds of stuff. Whatever you want

1071
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 4: to believe that, we're gonna you know, get it, the

1072
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 4: UFOs and all this kind of stuff. What are you doing?

1073
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, you're compelled to improve this world. There

1074
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,479
Speaker 4: is nothing that doesn't need to be done. You want

1075
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 4: to make more drinking water, we need that. You want

1076
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 4: to save cats, We need people to do that. Let kids,

1077
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 4: We need people to do that, whatever it is, and

1078
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 4: you will never run out of stuff to do that thing.

1079
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 4: So what are we arguing about?

1080
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1081
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,919
Speaker 1: Agreed, Yes, Yeah, I feel like I'm in church.

1082
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 6: You're in church, preach.

1083
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 4: Because you turn when your handles would be pleased to

1084
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 4: pay thirty three.

1085
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 6: Do we owe you all of our money?

1086
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 5: That's what I need coming right up.

1087
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 4: That's what it says. You can read it yourself rather

1088
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 4: you can really just I don't want to read it

1089
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 4: for you, but please.

1090
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 3: I like the time that jingles, but a lot of

1091
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 3: Courdent faults.

1092
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 2: Oh man, this has been such a pleasure.

1093
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you so much for talking to us, Glint.

1094
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me on the show. I really

1095
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 4: appreciate it. I really appreciate by commune of cult teams.

1096
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 4: Whatever we can get together and share some laughs. I

1097
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: always appreciate it because we can speak in full speed

1098
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 4: to each other.

1099
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, that was great. I'm so happy we got him.

1100
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 5: Thank you, Glenn.

1101
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 6: He's so cool.

1102
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: So cool, Megan. So what do you think would you join?

1103
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Glenn was born into it, so

1104
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a different situation. Would you join

1105
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Church of God?

1106
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 5: Do you think?

1107
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 7: No?

1108
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 6: I would not.

1109
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: It involves way too many things I don't like, like

1110
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: giving all my money to people that aren't me.

1111
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: And but don't all cults make you do that though?

1112
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: I feel like that's just sort of a built in.

1113
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 6: True But they think really took a lot.

1114
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 5: They did.

1115
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: Although look at Hoy, he gave them like four million

1116
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: dollars or what I know.

1117
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: I know, but Hoy had money, and Hoy was completely

1118
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 2: exploited and so unfair.

1119
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 6: But to be like a family on.

1120
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 2: A farm giving your like money away is a whole

1121
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 2: different beast in my mind. So I don't know that

1122
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 2: that's fucked up. And I would be so mad if

1123
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 2: I was a kid and my parents were like giving

1124
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: money that we needed to eat to this religion.

1125
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, the caveat that I will offer to that is

1126
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: that many religions require a percentage of your income as tithing. Absolutely,

1127
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: Mormonism requires ten percent of your gross income as well

1128
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: as tithing. Such a strange setup to have ten percent

1129
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: of it be for your own like fun, That's something

1130
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: I've never heard of, like ever in theory. That's like

1131
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 1: kind of a fun idea, like, oh, you know, you

1132
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: should devote a certain percentage of your income or your

1133
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: life to like leisure and you know, self care or whatever.

1134
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 5: Like there's something interesting.

1135
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: In that idea, but as a requirement not so much.

1136
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: It's more like, oh, if you want to like carve

1137
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: out space in your life to make sure, it's not

1138
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: all about work, yep, you know, but struggling families living

1139
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: in poverty, very very different story.

1140
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 6: Completely. It made me really sad that they had to

1141
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 6: do that.

1142
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 2: And everybody, like you said, everybody we've talked to, has

1143
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: been exploited horrifically and it.

1144
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 6: Just breaks your heart.

1145
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 2: So no, didn't like it didn't involve like wigs and

1146
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 2: magic and all that stuff. So I'm out, no nudity,

1147
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 2: no right out the rituals exactly.

1148
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 6: So it's not for me. But what a story.

1149
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: Indeed, Well, I guess we'll just leave it at that

1150
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: for this week, don't you think.

1151
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,919
Speaker 2: I think that might be all we can do. Thank

1152
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 2: you for listening to trust me, have a wonderful week,

1153
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: and remember to follow your gut, watch out for a flags, and.

1154
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 5: Never, never ever trust me. Bye bye