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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Everyone, welcome The Mother Knows Death. Today. We have

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Speaker 2: some great stories we will be discussing with a special guest.

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Speaker 2: You may have heard of doctor Leslie Dobson, who is

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Speaker 2: a clinical and forensic psychologist with over twenty years of

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Speaker 2: experience in severe mental illness, violence, and sexual offenses. She's

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Speaker 2: been a guest on Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, one

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Speaker 2: of our faves. She's also author of the book to

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Speaker 2: Frank Clens and she hosts the Intentionally Disturbing podcast, but

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Speaker 2: she's probably best known for her viral social media videos. Hi,

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Speaker 2: doctor Leslie, Welcome The Mother Knows Death.

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Speaker 1: Hi, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're so excited to do this episode with you. We

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Speaker 2: had a couple stories in the news recently about people

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Speaker 2: who just faked their kidnapping and things like that, and

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Speaker 2: we've been saving it aside for you. So you want

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Speaker 2: to get into the first story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been dying to talk about this Sherry Peppini

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Speaker 3: docu series that came out a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: because we've covered the case a lot, and when you

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Speaker 3: were coming on, I was like, we have to have

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Speaker 3: to have to talk to doctor Leslie about this. So

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Speaker 3: for our listeners that aren't familiar with this story, this

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Speaker 3: happened back in twenty sixteen where this wife and mother

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Speaker 3: mysteriously vanished. One morning, her husband got a call from

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Speaker 3: the daycare that the kids never got picked up. When

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Speaker 3: he got home, she wasn't there. She was missing for

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Speaker 3: all this time. Her family was pleading on the news

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Speaker 3: for her to come back or where was she. Nobody

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Speaker 3: knew what happened. They thought she was abducted. So all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, on Thanksgiving, she returns home, her hair'spin chopped,

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Speaker 3: she has this brand on her back. She claimed that

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Speaker 3: two Hispanic women had kidnapped her. It ended up turning

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Speaker 3: out that she was staying with an ex boyfriend at

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Speaker 3: this time, and she got arrested for faking her own kidnapping.

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Speaker 3: So now this docuseries has come out where she is

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Speaker 3: a new side of the story, which I'm gonna argue

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Speaker 3: is even worse than the original story. I don't know

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Speaker 3: what do you guys think about this? Like in the docuseries,

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Speaker 3: she was giving the producers a new story, and by

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Speaker 3: the end of the four episodes, I feel like they

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Speaker 3: were calling her out and having even more inconsistencies. And

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Speaker 3: I realized by the end of it that the only

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Speaker 3: people that claim she was telling the truth were people

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Speaker 3: she was paying, meaning her therapist and her lawyers.

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Speaker 2: Can therapists be paid off like that? I don't, that's

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Speaker 2: kind of that sounds really unethical.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of stupid therapists, I don't, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they can be manipulated. She she comes off

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Speaker 1: to me like she has some personality disorders, and so

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Speaker 1: I would imagine, you know, she takes pride in being

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Speaker 1: referred to as a master manipulator. But yet she has

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Speaker 1: this meekness to her and this like this youthfulness, and

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Speaker 1: it reminds me of so many notorious women who were

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Speaker 1: capable of doing horrible things, but they would kind of

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Speaker 1: draw you in with this almost like this delicateness. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it was like a mask for the maliciousness that

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Speaker 1: they were capable of. No, I don't. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what she was doing for twenty two days, but I

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Speaker 1: believe her boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of crazy because our listeners are not

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Speaker 3: going to believe this. But I've never seen the movie

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Speaker 3: Gone Girl. I just read the book last week and

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Speaker 3: I was like laughing to myself at how she seriously,

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Speaker 3: three years after this book and movie came out, took

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Speaker 3: every detail from this novel and implemented it in real life.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she just lost her job, just like the

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Speaker 3: main character and Gon girl lost her job. She's sitting

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Speaker 3: around the house with a rocky marriage. She's having this affair.

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Speaker 3: She meets up with this ex boyfriend who she basically,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, sets up to has committed this crime

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Speaker 3: because she wanted to run away and then in the

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Speaker 3: middle of it decided she made a huge mistake and returned.

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Speaker 3: It's exactly the plot of the book.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because it's hard to differentiate delusion

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Speaker 1: from you a purposeful lie. And that's where I would

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Speaker 1: do so many psychological assessments on her, and oh, I

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Speaker 1: would just have a field day with her. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a movie that came out with I think

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Speaker 1: was Channing Tatum and he was drugging people and they

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Speaker 1: were Blink Twice. Is that the movie? Yeah? Okay, so

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Speaker 1: so many people have referenced Blink Twice as they as

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Speaker 1: what they experienced from Seawan Colmbs and they are referencing

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Speaker 1: it to the tea. And so there are three people

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Speaker 1: I can think of that have quite a big following

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Speaker 1: now and have reached out to me, and I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to them. They are straight ap delusional or they are lying,

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Speaker 1: and it is because of the similarities and the references

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Speaker 1: to the movie and the linear fashion of how the

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Speaker 1: movie played out, and that is how they are saying

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Speaker 1: their experience was, they weren't trafficked, they never met the

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Speaker 1: guy they did. These stories aren't true. And so when

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Speaker 1: it comes to Peppine is a Peppinie, Yes, Pepini, It's

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Speaker 1: just it's it's too unbelievable to be believable. She's consistently inconsistent,

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Speaker 1: and so you look for that in psychology, you look

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Speaker 1: for like the linearity of the story over time and

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Speaker 1: the elements and the components. If it smells fishy, it's

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Speaker 1: a fish.

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Speaker 2: So wait, so this is for let's go back, because

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure I understood what you said about the

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Speaker 2: the p Didty situation, because I haven't heard this yet.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying that the witnesses that are describing their

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Speaker 2: stories are describing stories that are similar to a movie

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Speaker 2: and may not be what they actually experienced.

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Speaker 1: Not the witnesses in trial.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so other people though, yes, other other.

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Speaker 1: People who have substantial followings and have reached out to

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Speaker 1: me because they want to be on my podcast or

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Speaker 1: you know, they want me to advocate for them. And

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Speaker 1: you know, once I I'm never going to have a

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Speaker 1: mentally ill, severely mentally ill person on my podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to take advantage of that state of mind.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with all of the interviews soft White

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Speaker 1: Underbelly does because he will go out at three am

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Speaker 1: to Compton offer someone fifty bucks they're on crack, and

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Speaker 1: he'll interview them. And I think that that's a really

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Speaker 1: poor use of our platforms. And so people reach out

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Speaker 1: and I could easily interview someone who says they were

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Speaker 1: trafficked by Diddy and fully be aware that they're delusional

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Speaker 1: because they are literally stating seen by seeing the movie

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Speaker 1: Blink twice. But I just I don't. Ethically, it's just

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Speaker 1: so wrong to me. So No, the people on the

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Speaker 1: stand testifying, I truly believe them, and I think that

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Speaker 1: when when the defense is going at their credibility, I

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Speaker 1: think that's the only way they they can really fight back.

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Speaker 1: In this case. But you can't really go against someone's

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Speaker 1: credibility when they're high as a fucking kite all day

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Speaker 1: and all night on a million substances as well. So

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Speaker 1: their lack of consistent memory on the stand in trial

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Speaker 1: right now, I do not think is a lack of

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Speaker 1: credibility or truce. I think it's like a substance induced

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Speaker 1: crazy nightmare they lived.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that you're saying that because I was thinking,

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Speaker 2: like this Sherry Peppini person has done interviews and it's

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Speaker 2: like these people, is it that they're lying and they're

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Speaker 2: just good at lying or do they really believe their stories?

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Speaker 2: That's like, I guess that's something that you would do

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Speaker 2: is figure that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot of psychological assessments that can

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Speaker 1: figure that out that look for delusional disorder, paranoia, a

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Speaker 1: desire to fake good, you want to look more sick

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Speaker 1: than you are. You know, we can look at all

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Speaker 1: of that, and we look at that through a variety

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Speaker 1: of tests that are very different and they're normed on

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Speaker 1: samples of people just like you and me. So you

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Speaker 1: look for similar people, same ethnicity, same age, same gender,

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Speaker 1: and you compare answers and the test will be like, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: this is like super extreme for somebody like this, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense and it lines up everything. And then

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Speaker 1: we have tons of different tests and then I look

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Speaker 1: at each test and I compare all the results. It's

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Speaker 1: really really fucking tedious. Sherry is too inconsistent. These stories

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Speaker 1: are too bizarre and ever changing for me to think

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Speaker 1: that it would be delusional. It seems a little more volitional,

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Speaker 1: like she's enjoying the same and the clout from it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree, because you know, obviously everybody has

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Speaker 3: a right to tell their side of the story. But

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Speaker 3: they're sitting there criticizing her ex husband for doing the

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Speaker 3: Hulu documentary about her when she's doing this other documentary

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Speaker 3: making accusations about him stealing her children away, when I

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Speaker 3: don't really think it's that far fetched that you know,

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Speaker 3: she might not have custody after going to prison, So

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Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's kind of outrageous to

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Speaker 3: sit there and say that he stole her kids away.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm not saying he's a perfect guy either.

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Speaker 3: Clearly their marriage wasn't great. His sister was even in

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Speaker 3: the docuseries. You know, on Cherry side for most of it,

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Speaker 3: which I thought was strange. But you know, you did

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Speaker 3: go to prison, and you did admit that you lied,

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Speaker 3: and your story continues to be inconsistent. So what I

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Speaker 3: thought was most pivotal part of the documentary not pivotal,

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Speaker 3: but a great part of the documentary was it ended

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Speaker 3: with her asking the production team do you think this

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Speaker 3: is going to be better or worse for me? And

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Speaker 3: I would say, as somebody that's followed this case for

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Speaker 3: almost ten years, I think it's way worse for her.

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Speaker 3: She seems even more guilty of my opinion.

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Speaker 1: I can totally see her branding herself like it's just

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Speaker 1: I can see her coming up with what she thought

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Speaker 1: was like this epic story and plan didn't work out, Okay,

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Speaker 1: go to prison. Oh I've got another one for you.

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Speaker 1: Here's my news to break and plan. Oh we've got

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Speaker 1: thirsty producers who need airtime. Okay, they're willing to give

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Speaker 1: me what fifteen hundred bucks to do? Okay? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Because how is she making money now out of prison?

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Speaker 3: And exactly like I think she thought she was going

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Speaker 3: to be this next Gone girl. But the difference between

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Speaker 3: her and the main character in that book is she

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Speaker 3: does not have the same intelligence level. And we have

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Speaker 3: to remember that's a fictionalized book, so she clearly didn't

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Speaker 3: line everything up as perfectly as she thought she was

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Speaker 3: going to.

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Speaker 1: And intelligence is so interesting, right because it's based on

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Speaker 1: so many different facets of the mind. So she could

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Speaker 1: be very very emotionally manipulative and intelligent in that way,

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Speaker 1: but lack of intelligence with like forethought and future oriented thinking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, Like I'm just like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I get your plan, but like, what did you think

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Speaker 2: was going to happen next? There's not like any plan

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Speaker 2: after week one or something of like how are people

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Speaker 2: going to look at this and take this and like

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen next of it? It's really like

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Speaker 2: it's kind of weird, honestly. Remember that was a girl,

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Speaker 2: maybe it was like a year or two ago, a

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Speaker 2: young woman named Carly Russell who did the same thing.

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Speaker 2: She said that she got She pulled over to the

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Speaker 2: side of the road because she saw this toddler walking

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Speaker 2: on the side of the road in a diaper, and

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Speaker 2: then she she claims she was kidnapped, and then she

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Speaker 2: ended up at her parents' house like two days later

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Speaker 2: and it. Obviously the whole story didn't check out. You

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Speaker 2: don't think from a cops perspective that they're gonna look

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Speaker 2: into this a little bit and then like what was

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Speaker 2: the point of that? Like what is going through these

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Speaker 2: people's minds? It's so weird.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if they couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: job at Starbucks, people are weird. As a therapist that

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Speaker 1: I like, I'm always just coming to the conclusion that

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Speaker 1: people are really weird. If you find good people and

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Speaker 1: you have a circle of like three friends, that's super amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because people have darkness inside them. People have secrets, and

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Speaker 1: even your closest friend you don't know her dirt. And

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Speaker 1: being a therapist, I get to find out. But also

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Speaker 1: being a forensic psychologist, I get to do these psychological

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Speaker 1: assessments and I get to manipulate these psychopathic people in

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Speaker 1: order for them to show me higher levels of their psychopathy.

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Speaker 1: So there's this manipulation present where I get like some

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Speaker 1: good tea that other people don't get.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's so it's so juicy, like I want

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Speaker 2: to hear. I know you can't talk about patients, but

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Speaker 2: can are you allowed to like tell general stories? As

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Speaker 2: long as you don't give away who it is, right

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Speaker 2: like why why not?

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Speaker 1: And a lot of a lot of court cases are

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Speaker 1: are public, so we all you see my name listed

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Speaker 1: as the expert or I'm my testimonies out there. But

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Speaker 1: I've worked with, you know, thousands of the most mentally ill,

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Speaker 1: severely violent, mostly men. I have to say I don't

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Speaker 1: have like a huge I don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: experience with women because the facilities were largely men, and

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Speaker 1: I think women are just a little better at getting

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Speaker 1: away with their crimes. So but yeah, I've I know

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Speaker 1: where a lot of bodies are buried, you know. I

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Speaker 1: these men would tell me much more than they were

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Speaker 1: in for and depending on my role, I could either

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Speaker 1: report it or I could not. So as a therapist,

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Speaker 1: you don't unless you're going to kill someone, I can't

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Speaker 1: tell people that you've killed someone. So there's that the

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Speaker 1: texture thing. But in forensic psychology, if I'm an expert,

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Speaker 1: then I would add that to the report. Lawyers just

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Speaker 1: read it and be like, oh wait, we said there's

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Speaker 1: thirteen people under the spridge.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's so interesting, you know what.

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Speaker 2: Another question that I had is like, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: this woman's husband, and there's always obvious people have husband's family, Like,

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Speaker 2: is there a certain type of person that's attracted to

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Speaker 2: a person like this, because maybe the person that does

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Speaker 2: these types of things knows that they're manipulative and they

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Speaker 2: look for a weak or lenk almost because it sometimes

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Speaker 2: it seems like the family or the husband it happened

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Speaker 2: with it. What was that woman's name, Susan with the

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Speaker 2: car with the kids back in the day. Why can't

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Speaker 2: I think of what her name is right now? You know,

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Speaker 2: the one that faked that she got carjacked and the

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Speaker 2: car went into the water with the kids still in

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Speaker 2: the car, and she she said that she was kidnapped, and.

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Speaker 1: I vaguely remember it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it was like her husband believed her at first.

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Speaker 2: Like what is it about these family members that are

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Speaker 2: they're completely just have no idea that their loved one

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Speaker 2: is is capable of coming up with a lie like this,

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Speaker 2: Like they believe what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: People are ignorant and simple, And you know, I think

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Speaker 1: the real truth is that we can barely manage our

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Speaker 1: own lives and to be able to shift our paradigm

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Speaker 1: and change our perspective of a human being so close

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Speaker 1: to us. It's cognitively difficult. It takes energy, it takes time,

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Speaker 1: it takes commitment to shift that mindset. And you know,

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Speaker 1: who knows if that's happening in the Seawan Colmbs trial

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Speaker 1: with his kids sitting there watching and talking about Dad

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Speaker 1: ejaculate or no, he wasn't ejaculating, playing with the jackular.

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Speaker 2: That's weird that the children are there and I don't

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Speaker 2: care what age they are. It's freaking weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is weird. Are are like, Are

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Speaker 1: they like, oh we knew about this? Are they going

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Speaker 1: to shift their paradigm? Do they love Dad less? Because

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Speaker 1: they should, But it's it takes a while for people

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Speaker 1: to not be bamboozled, I guess, and it happens in

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Speaker 1: good ways and bad ways. But also think that you

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Speaker 1: know narcissistic men, So people with narcissistic personality disorder often

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Speaker 1: find relationships with women who have borderline personality disorder. And

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Speaker 1: these women who are faking cases all have this flare

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Speaker 1: for borderline personality disorder. Now the narcissist sees it as

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Speaker 1: someone they can easily control, right, and the borderline is

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Speaker 1: the relationship begins with the borderline being very flattering, right,

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Speaker 1: they're all in, they're very devoted because a borderline doesn't

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Speaker 1: have an identity, so they're going to be whatever the

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Speaker 1: narcissist wants until they're not until they start to fall

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Speaker 1: apart and become fragmented again, which is their natural state.

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Speaker 1: Then the narcissists can't handle that person. The borderline starts

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Speaker 1: to freak out, and then again, you know, disappears for

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Speaker 1: twenty two and this stamps her back with something. Is

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Speaker 1: this not diagnosing, just assuming no.

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Speaker 2: I understand. I was curious if this is a similar

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Speaker 2: personality to people who like the Munchausens by proxy or

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Speaker 2: just Munchausenes in general. We had a story of a

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Speaker 2: woman last week who faked having sickle cell anemia, and

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people do these things because

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Speaker 2: they think they could get money from it, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if it's an attention thing all the time.

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Speaker 2: But also you have stories of people doing this on

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Speaker 2: their kids. And then we had another story this week

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Speaker 2: about a woman who faked a pregnancy. It's just very

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Speaker 2: like it seems like it's all along the same lines

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Speaker 2: of just very weird things for people to make up

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Speaker 2: because they could easily be proven wrong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, well there's a cash grab, right, I

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Speaker 1: think especially during this well, with this economy, people are terrified,

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Speaker 1: and they're people are getting more mentally ill because they're

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Speaker 1: freaking the fuck out, which is understandable, and they're looking

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Speaker 1: for simple ways to get attention, notoriety, and to get money.

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Speaker 1: But again they're not they're not thinking it through Munchausen's.

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Speaker 1: Munchausen's is a very severe disorder and it shows itself

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Speaker 1: over many, many, many years. So if there isn't a

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Speaker 1: history of it, I would assume the person is more

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Speaker 1: borderline or there's a different diagnosis. But with Munchausen's you're

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Speaker 1: going to see illnesses for a long long time. And

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Speaker 1: of course we have the most severe case that I

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Speaker 1: think we've really had televised was oh Gypsy Rose, Yeah right,

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Speaker 1: and how many years did that go on? That was

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Speaker 1: her entire life, that her mother had Munchausen's by proxy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So if it's just one of these one

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Speaker 1: off instances, then I would definitely look towards more of

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Speaker 1: a borderline, psychopathic, manipulative, despontaneous attempt at a money grab.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious your thoughts on this other case we

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Speaker 3: have about Hannah Kabayah. She so we had talked about

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Speaker 3: her last year. She had flown from Hawaii to lax

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Speaker 3: She was supposed to take a connecting flight to New York.

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Speaker 3: She never got on that flight. Her family ended up

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Speaker 3: declaring her missing, and then her father went to la

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Speaker 3: to look for her, ended up dying by suicide, only

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Speaker 3: for her to turn up in Mexico a couple weeks later.

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Speaker 3: So I think this case is really interesting because she's

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Speaker 3: not this article saying she's speaking out for the first time,

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Speaker 3: and she's not really saying much. But it seems like

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Speaker 3: she just wanted to kind of disappear for a little

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Speaker 3: bit and didn't realize how damaging it was going to

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Speaker 3: be to her entire family.

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Speaker 1: Right, that her dad was gonna off himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's nuts, right, But I understand that as

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Speaker 2: a parent, Like if my kid was missing, like I

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Speaker 2: can't even fathom what that would feel like, even if

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Speaker 2: it was you, Maria, an older kid like it it

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Speaker 2: would be like the grossest feeling ever I can't imagine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I it's all bizarre to me because I

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Speaker 1: would still I would look, I would keep looking right. Yea,

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Speaker 1: there was no there were no remains found, there was

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Speaker 1: no proof of death or anything. So it makes me think,

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Speaker 1: you know, why did he kill himself so quickly? Is

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Speaker 1: there something he didn't want seen? Was he feeling guilty?

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Speaker 1: Did he think that he had led to her running away?

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Speaker 1: Why did she There's so many questions about, well, why

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Speaker 1: this was so severe in so many ways and drastic?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because her family seeming to say that she was

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Speaker 3: in some sort of danger, and it's come out that

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Speaker 3: her and her father had an estranged relationship, So if

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Speaker 3: they were truly estranged, it is bizarre he would take

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Speaker 3: such a dramatic step and was he involved in that danger?

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Speaker 3: Why are they not rushing to clear it up? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess it's kind of none of our business, but

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Speaker 3: when it reaches the public and people are searching for her,

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Speaker 3: then it is kind of their responsibility to let us know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't with her case, I don't immediately place

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Speaker 1: blame on her. I'm I'm my lead with curiosity because

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Speaker 1: of how quickly her father did that. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: think we're I think we're missing a lot and I

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Speaker 1: would imagine, I would imagine we may never know because

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Speaker 1: it's her story to tell, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I want to circle back to another story

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Speaker 3: we have about this fake pregnancy scandal with this Bachelor star.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know how familiar you are with this case.

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Speaker 3: I've been following it for over a year, but it's

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Speaker 3: just been escalating like crazy. So I know, Mom, you're

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Speaker 3: like not super familiar with because you're not the biggest Bachelor.

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Speaker 2: I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Like she told me about, oh there's this thing that

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Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, people have been faking pregnancy

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Speaker 2: since the beginning of time, like whatever, Like I don't

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Speaker 2: I think it's it's a little weird. It's weird for sure,

391
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Speaker 2: but like I'm just kind of like, to me, I

392
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Speaker 2: look at it like, Okay, he's he has money and

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Speaker 2: he's somebody and she was trying to get money off

394
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Speaker 2: of Like That's how I.

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Speaker 1: Look at it.

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Speaker 3: So to give the listeners some background, this guy Clayton

397
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Speaker 3: Ecker that was on The Bachelor. He after it was

398
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Speaker 3: on The Bachelor started working in real estate. This woman,

399
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Speaker 3: Laura Michelle Owens, reached out to him to help with

400
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: some real estate. He fully admits that the day they

401
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 3: met up that they hooked up and only had oral sex,

402
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Speaker 3: so he was really surprised when eleven days later she

403
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Speaker 3: said she was pregnant. So first it started with that

404
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: because you know, of course they're the only two people

405
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Speaker 3: in the room, he said. She said, we don't really

406
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Speaker 3: know what went on, but he is this entire time

407
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Speaker 3: maintained they never had vaginal sex at all. So of

408
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 3: course this starts spiraling, and then it starts coming out that,

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Speaker 3: you know, she was trying to pursue a relationship. He

410
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Speaker 3: didn't really want anything to do with that. The story

411
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Speaker 3: starts escalating. She says she's pregnant with twins. She's sending

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Speaker 3: him ultrasounds, she's sending him medical records, she's taking him

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Speaker 3: to court over custody, wearing a fake pregnant belly in

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Speaker 3: the court meetings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's weird.

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Speaker 3: That's what I'm talking about, Like she's taking it to

417
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Speaker 3: the extreme, and then he ends up finding out she's

418
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Speaker 3: done it to a couple other guys and now she's

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Speaker 3: been federally indicted for it.

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Speaker 1: It's just nut and she has like a million phone numbers.

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Speaker 1: He's had to block her. She's full on stocking him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, over five hundred texts and emails from various different accounts.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we talk about cases where you know, people

424
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Speaker 3: have sex and men refuse to admit that the result

425
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Speaker 3: of sex could be pregnancy. But if they really didn't

426
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Speaker 3: have sex, if they really didn't have sex, and you know,

427
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Speaker 3: he's surprised by this in general, and she has a

428
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Speaker 3: history of it. I just think it's really bizarre to

429
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Speaker 3: take the extra steps. First you're lying, which is just

430
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Speaker 3: really weird, and then you're taking the steps to photoshop

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Speaker 3: fake documents. You're buying a fake belly on Amazon and

432
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: wearing it in court meetings. I mean, how do you

433
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 3: think you're getting away with this? She just said, Oh,

434
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: I had a miscarriage. No big deal, It's not how

435
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: that works. People have to look into everything.

436
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: Well, what would really be the point of there being

437
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: a fake pregnant belly for sale anyway? Like why will

438
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: for movies and stuff? Okay, well that should be like

439
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: a movie prop website. Why can you just buy that

440
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: on Amazon? That's seriously, like, that's no good's gonna come

441
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: with that.

442
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: Well, when I worked on the movie, we had ordered

443
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: various pregnant bellies in different skin tones, and textures to

444
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 3: see which one was the most realistic. So I imagine

445
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: this woman doing them too for her own personal I'm

446
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: assuming she was doing it for financial gain or I

447
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just it's such a I mean, she.

448
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: She seems ill though, I mean, like, how rich is

449
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: this guy? What do you get? Like thirty grands?

450
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: Like the low level, That's what I'm saying, Like, well,

451
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 3: I don't think he's that rich if he had to

452
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 3: go into real estate after being on reality television. And

453
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: she's the daughter of a famous radio host, so you

454
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 3: want to assume she comes from some wealthy situation. I

455
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 3: don't know if this is just some sick mind games

456
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: she likes playing on guys that reject her, or well.

457
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's I would say, like a auto manic

458
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: delusional disorder, which is stalking. Right. It's a love based,

459
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: sex based, infatuation based obsession with somebody, and you can't

460
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: they don't know that it's not reality, and there does

461
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: come a point where it switches to other people and

462
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: other objects, and then oftentimes it switches back, which is scary.

463
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: But if they're not stalking you, they're stocking someone else,

464
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: so at least you can be relieved that they're stalking

465
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: someone else. So if she can move on, he would

466
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: probably feel a lot better.

467
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean there's an entire website devoted to

468
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: victims of her. There's multiple guys on there with their

469
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: whole stories of which he put them through. And he

470
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 3: was very gleeful when the indictment came through because he

471
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: had been living in this absolute hell for I guess

472
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 3: two years now this has been going on.

473
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of like Baby Reindeer ish, like, yes, it does.

474
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: It gives that vibe of you know, he gave just enough.

475
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: He did engage with her, and then that when somebody

476
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: is mentally compromised, it doesn't take much for them to

477
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: misread signals and cues. And I would imagine he replied

478
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: to her at the beginning, you know, he kind of

479
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: like he didn't probably set a really firm boundary. He

480
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: was probably trying to be kind. It continued, and then

481
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: he was like, whoa, my god, this is getting fucking insane.

482
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: Just kind of like how Baby Reindeer played out, and

483
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: that's how a lot of delusions and stocking scenarios play out.

484
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: It is so scary to think you're just having a

485
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: casual hook up with somebody one time, and then it

486
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: just ends up following you for the next couple of

487
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: years of your life.

488
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: And maybe forever. Right, I mean, she could just continue

489
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: to try and find ways unless she's imprisoned. Now.

490
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: Thing is so scary, Oh my god. Yeah, Like when

491
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: you hear some of the stories about it, it's just

492
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: like there was this I think it was on Nancy

493
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: Grace was talking about it actually, like an actress that

494
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: was having a stalker and stuff and like having your

495
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: children involved and just being scared. And I can't even

496
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: imagine that. It's like, what causes is it the same

497
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: thing you were just talking about, That's what causes people

498
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: to do that?

499
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they you know, they're not in the

500
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: right mindset. They the delusions are false beliefs, but these

501
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: people really believe them. We see them as false. These

502
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: people believe them to be true. They misconstrue signs or

503
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: they're hallucinating signs. So we would look towards something like

504
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: schizophrenia where you're having hallucinations visual you know, you think

505
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: he's coming to visit you, you know, like auditory hallucinations

506
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: where maybe a lot of the times they think they're

507
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: getting phone calls from the individual, and then I'll ask

508
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: to see the client's phone and there's no phone calls

509
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: coming in, and then the delusional belief then plays off

510
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: of that, well, you know, I just saw him, he

511
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: just called. He must want me to go to his house.

512
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's really interesting. So there's so yeah. So

513
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: it's almost like, I mean, sometimes you want to just

514
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: like make fun of these people and be like, oh,

515
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: that chicks, that chicks the psycho. Like, you know, we've

516
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: all had a friend that's that had that that. It's

517
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: usually it's sometimes a guy, but it's usually a woman

518
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: that's like, you know and like you. But then I

519
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: feel bad because if they're really like they really think

520
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: it's happening, that's kind of scary for them too.

521
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: They think it's happening. I feel bad for a lot

522
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: of female celebrities who have had very very severe stocking

523
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: cases and what one it's not very recent, but it

524
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: was Natalie Portman, and I think the guy thought he

525
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: was in the matrix and he like came to her

526
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: house so many times, like dressed like Keanu Reeves, and

527
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: he had like semi automatic weapons and he took out

528
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: her security. I mean, she was utterly terrified. There's like

529
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: her nine to one one calls were out there during

530
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: the case, and like he was wanting to either take

531
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: her life because of some delusional beliefs that it would

532
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: free both of them. But I mean he was. He

533
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: got armed and ready and this went on for years.

534
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we remember when we covered the doctor

535
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: Amy Harwick case. She had been in this really bad

536
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: relationship years before. She hadn't seen the ex boyfriend in

537
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: a really long time, ran into him randomly at some convention,

538
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: and then a week later he murdered her. It just

539
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: like set his mind off, and he stalked her, hid

540
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: in her house, was lying in wait, and it was horrible.

541
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: So it is crazy how these really little encounters can

542
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: just trip somebody up and cause them to just go

543
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: over the deep ed.

544
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I was driving to my office this morning,

545
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: I needed to make a right turn, and I knew

546
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna make a right time and get past

547
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: a car. I had to wait for the light to

548
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: turn green in the car to move forward. The person

549
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: behind me didn't grasp that. It's it's like eight in

550
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: the morning and she's blaring her horn honking at me,

551
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I carry a gun everywhere I go, Like,

552
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: you do this to the wrong person, and you don't

553
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: know how much pain, how much misery, how much psychosis

554
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: this person has. They will justify just turning around and

555
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: shooting you in the fucking head. And it's you cannot

556
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: never overestimate, I'm sorry, underestimate people's capacity to be triggered

557
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: by your behavior. They put the blame on you. They're

558
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: not grounded in reality. And at the end of the day,

559
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: your life is threatened and your family's life is threatened.

560
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: Like we really have to tread lightly right now, especially

561
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: with this administration, especially with just how much divisiveness and

562
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: contention there is in America and all over the world.

563
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: People are carrying this around with them all the time,

564
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: and they're more easily triggered. I have more works than

565
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: I've ever had before.

566
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And I mean, do you think that

567
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: that it's got I mean, you're not really that old,

568
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: so it's not not let's say, well that's what I'm saying,

569
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: Like you're you're younger than me, but you're still like

570
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: around my age. But I'm saying, like you haven't been

571
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: practicing that long, I should say that there's been a transition.

572
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: I'd like to talk to older uh psychiatrists and psychologists

573
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: who who have seen the transition before social media versus

574
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: after and then even I mean even when Maria was

575
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: a teenager, there was Facebook, I guess.

576
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 3: Right, Ray, I mean I didn't really have Facebook though

577
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 3: until I was like a sophomore or junior in high school. Yeah,

578
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: it was just getting it just popular.

579
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 2: It was just different until because Instagram was even a

580
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: certain way, and it started really with like Snapchat problem,

581
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: I would say, like with the videos, and then Instagram

582
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: started copying all those ideas off of TikTok and Snapchat.

583
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: But like the introduction of those other apps I feel

584
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: like is when shit started getting really weird. Yeah, and

585
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: it's like, so you wouldn't have really, I mean, you've

586
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 2: been practicing really since then. So it's like hard to

587
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 2: see if there's been like a significant transition for older therapists,

588
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

589
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be really interesting to ask a bunch

590
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: of them their perspective. And you know, my perspective is

591
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: also biased because people can have cell phones in prison,

592
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: so a lot of my well, they could that was

593
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 1: just a problem. But they they didn't have access to

594
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: the outside world, and so a lot of my training

595
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: was not people manipulated by media.

596
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. That is interesting. This episode is brought

597
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: to you by the Gross Room. Guys, the Gross Room

598
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: is on sale for only twenty dollars for the whole

599
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: entire year. And we don't do this often, but let

600
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: me tell you what you're going to get. I just

601
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: look today. We have over three thousand posts in the

602
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: Gross Room that date back to twenty nineteen. So if

603
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: you're not a member yet, you will have like months

604
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: to look through all of this stuff. There's thousands of

605
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: pictures videos that go along with all these posts. And

606
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: this week our high profile death dissection was on Francis

607
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: Glassner Lee. Right, do you want to talk about that

608
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: one a little bit.

609
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Francis Glessner Lee. She is considered the mother

610
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: of forensic science. She is this bad ass older woman

611
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: that started making these crime scene doll houses to better

612
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 3: educate homicide detectives and death investigators on how to just

613
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: really sit there and observe a scene. So in this dissection,

614
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 3: we break down all of her dollhouses, her history, her

615
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: contributions to forensics. She is truly the coolest lady.

616
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: Of all time.

617
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, really like way ahead of her time. So check

618
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: all that out and more at the Grosser Room.

619
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, head over to the grossroom dot com to sign up.

620
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: All right, So there was recently an article out about

621
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: this is going on just a totally different topic about

622
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 2: mental health and social media. So it's interesting because that's

623
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: kind of your thing. Which it's really interesting that they

624
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 2: did this particular study. So they looked at one hundred

625
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 2: from on TikTok, the top hundred videos that had hashtag

626
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 2: mental health tips, and they got a bunch of psychiatrists

627
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: and psychologists to look at these videos and say, hey,

628
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 2: are these accurate or what kind of information are people

629
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: putting out? And they found that fifty two of the

630
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: hundred videos were actually bad and giving terrible advice. So

631
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm just curious what you think about that. Like, my

632
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: particular stance on it is that just because a video

633
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: has a lot of views doesn't necessarily mean that people

634
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: are taking the advice of it. It's just being said

635
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: someone had a catchy hook and it got shared and

636
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: that could just be it. But also I guess in theory.

637
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 2: So many people are seeing it so they could take

638
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: the advice seriously.

639
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: It's terrifying. But no, I do get people coming in

640
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: my office and just being like, I've been on TikTok

641
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: for a while. I think I have ADHD. I think

642
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: on borderline, I think I'm a psychopath. I'm like, wait, wait, wait,

643
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 1: tell me why what are the symptoms? And what they

644
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: tell me has absolutely nothing here I have read here

645
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: the diagnostic manual. No, you don't all have bipolar. You

646
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: don't all have ADHD. It is sexy to think you do.

647
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: And no, you're not all autistic right now.

648
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: That's I said, I swear to God. When I was

649
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 2: reading this, I was laughing because I'm like, I just

650
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: set my husband like five videos that that said that

651
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: I was autistic, so are all of my children, all

652
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: three of my children. And he used too, just based

653
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: upon all of the things that it was saying.

654
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: And then I was just.

655
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: Thinking, like, who, like everyone I know is like this, actually,

656
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: Like what's the difference. I don't understand it's it is

657
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: And it's always like just a regular person putting out

658
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: these videos too. It's not someone like in your field,

659
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 2: for example.

660
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 3: I don't know, like, I don't find it that surprising

661
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: that the information's incorrect, because I feel like once a

662
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: week on the show, we have a story about people

663
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: doing totally dumb stuff this you know, TikTok and landing

664
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: in the hospital or in severe pieces they end up dying,

665
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: And it's like, why are we listening to a total

666
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: stranger on the internet that says this is a good idea?

667
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what was that trend where people were like

668
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: breathing in like cocoa powder or something.

669
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, taking spoonfuls of the cinnamon sugar or put

670
00:37:58,719 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 2: Pa Potter.

671
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, their'st making them really sick.

672
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: It's every we have. In one of our episodes this week,

673
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: we have a social media influencer who was eating cosmetics

674
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: on and she's dead. She's twenty four years old and

675
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: she's dead. So I'm sure that you have something to

676
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: do with one another. Well they're family saying there's no connection,

677
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: but we'll talk. We talk more about that on another episode.

678
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: I you know, it's good and bad. TikTok started as

679
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: a dance platform, right, but now it's got the strongest

680
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: algorithm I've ever seen where if you are depressed, it's

681
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: just gonna throw depressing videos at you in all these

682
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: different layers and the nuances, and it's timing when you

683
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: stay on videos, I mean the natural language processing. There's

684
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: so much going on for each video to get to you.

685
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: And so if it is interested in mental health with you,

686
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: if you're looking for coping skills, you're looking to end

687
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: your life, it's going to send you things to continue

688
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: watching the video, which is fucking horrifying it. Eventually it

689
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: does not become a healthy deep dive right in the algorithm.

690
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: So you end up getting coping skills that may be popular,

691
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: but they're not going to treat whatever mental health symptom

692
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: you are experiencing. Then you're going to be berated with

693
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: people who also have whatever mental health symptom you think.

694
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: You have to just concritize these views in your mind.

695
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: So then you start doing things to treat things that

696
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: you don't have, and you're missing what you actually do have,

697
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: which means that you just become more ill. It's just

698
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: a horrible, a horrible mental health problem with social media.

699
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: I know, and I don't do TikTok. I think that

700
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: we have a TikTok, but well we have a TikTok.

701
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: But I'm just like I've heard because I've been hearing

702
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: these things, and I'm like, I don't need another thing

703
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: to give me a problem, you know, in my life,

704
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: and another thing to check and all that. But I

705
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: do worry. I mean, my kids don't have it, and

706
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: I don't plan on ever letting them get social media.

707
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: But I worry about young people having to do with

708
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: exactly you're just saying, and you hear it with especially

709
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: with with with girls. It's worse because of the dieting

710
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: and just the unrealistic beauty expectations and the filters and

711
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 2: all this stuff. It's so it's really scary, right.

712
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: It's not healthy if you can try to keep it healthy.

713
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean I tell people all the time. You know,

714
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: you can restore or refresh your settings to default and

715
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: start over on TikTok so that they don't keep building

716
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: on negative things you're searching for, because you know, scientifically

717
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: we sit on negative videos longer than positive videos, and

718
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: so then you're gonna load more and more negative videos.

719
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: But if you are going to get medical advice from

720
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: social media, get it from somebody who's credible. Get it

721
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: from somebody who has degrees and a license and is

722
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: referencing there are scientific based articles that they used to

723
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: come up with their opinion. Right, So even if somebody

724
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: has a doctorate, if they're not referencing actual science, who

725
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,479
Speaker 1: knows what, who knows their opinion, they may have lost

726
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: their license. They may not actually be a doctor. Yeah.

727
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and that's scary because you don't really know anybody. Yeah,

728
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: and it's funny because we had gotten a review a

729
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago basically saying we were spreading misinformation

730
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: about gluten being inflammatory. But the awesome thing about your job, mom,

731
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 2: is that, like you're able to, you know, cite all

732
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 2: the scientific articles. I went right on Instagram and uploaded

733
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: like ten papers saying, no, it's actually totally a thing,

734
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, This isn't this isn't some

735
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 2: quack science. I'm trying to say, it's a thing, and

736
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 2: it's you know, I just I get annoyed with the

737
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 2: word misinformation because I think that because there are a

738
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: lot of things that people have called misinformation in the

739
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: past that aren't and that's throughout time, not just with

740
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: social media, but like, well, I thank you forever. So

741
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: I think you can argue, like the words narcissism and

742
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: psychopath and your field, people just misuse it so often

743
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: that it starts taking on a whole new definition and

744
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: they don't really understand what the true meaning of it is,

745
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: which I think you know.

746
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: What's been interesting for me is that when things are

747
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: televised like these trials, everybody wants to diagnose the person,

748
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: and you've got people diagnosing the person. One, they've never

749
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: met the person, so they're just basing it on what

750
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: they're seeing, which is manipulated information from lawyers. And two,

751
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: they don't understand diagnosing, Like you can't diagnose someone as

752
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: a psychopath. That's not a diagnosis. That's a character trait,

753
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: that's a personality disorder. It it has components of what

754
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: we would use to diagnose someone. But like what's spreading

755
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 1: around is just people trying to stay relevant and trying

756
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: to understand what they're seeing. Like with Sean Colmes, it

757
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: is so incredibly bizarre what he's been up to. Let's

758
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: say that, and everybody wants to figure out what is

759
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: wrong with him, find it, say it for me, but

760
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: it's we can't. We don't know enough, so we can't

761
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: clearly understand it, and you know, we always have that

762
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: hope we have to be okay with also not knowing

763
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: and trusting that the process will show itself.

764
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 2: So let's talk about some of your viral videos that

765
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: have gone that you've done, because I know that you

766
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: do videos all the time, but obviously, like some of

767
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 2: them catch on and one of them like So let's

768
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: talk about this one first. The shopping cart one was

769
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: a big one. Tell everybody about that.

770
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: I made a seventeen second video in my car where

771
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: I said I wasn't going to return my shopping car

772
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 1: if my kids were in the car and I'd already

773
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: gotten my groceries in, and I told the whole world

774
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: to fuck off and not judge me. And it was

775
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: purposely very sensational provocative because what I fight for is

776
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: just building awareness in people, and people are so ignorant

777
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: it drives me crazy. People are so unaware of their

778
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: surroundings and they don't want to think that they're going

779
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: to be harmed. You know, I don't care if you

780
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: live in a nice neighborhood. Like a thirteen year old

781
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: just used her jiu jitsu and took down a guy

782
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: in a parking lot. In Carmel by the Sea, the

783
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: most quaint beautiful town in northern California. She broke his

784
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 1: ankle like she's a badass child. Yeah, I loves the sorry,

785
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: but like the naivety of people, And so I wanted

786
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: to do a video where I was just like, no,

787
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: like you aren't choosing, like not being judged by fucking

788
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: strangers over your trusting your intuition and being aware of

789
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: your surrounding and surroundings and saying, you know, I'm not

790
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: gonna turn my cart if potentially there's a threat, if

791
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: I see a threat, if I feel a threat, if

792
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: I if my kids are in the car, and I

793
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 1: just don't want to risk that safety. It's fucking fine.

794
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: I it's so funny that you're saying this because I

795
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 2: so my kids now are my little ones. Anyway, they're

796
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: ten and twelve years old, right, so now they're they're

797
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 2: capable of like being little people. But back in the day,

798
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: I mean they're only a year and a half apart.

799
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 2: I would bring both of them to the grocery store

800
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: and I'd have like a two and a three year

801
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: old or a three and a four year old, like

802
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 2: little kids. And I recall putting them in their seep

803
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: in their car seats and being nervous about that not

804
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,959
Speaker 2: like I mean, you deal with criminals, so your mind

805
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: automatically goes to getting a criminal. But I would think, like,

806
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: when I'm pushing this cart back, if some person comes

807
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: raging down in the car and runs me over, are

808
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: people going to know that my children or there's children

809
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 2: in a car that are strapped in and and the

810
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: doors are shut, because I would shut and lock the

811
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: doors if I was walking away at least, But then

812
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: I'd be like, they're in there cooking because it's it's

813
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: the spring or something, you know. Like that kind of

814
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: stuff would always go through my head and we really

815
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: should not really care what people think of us, Like, Okay,

816
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: you think I'm a doucebag for not putting back the car. Okay,

817
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: who cares? You know what I mean?

818
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I you know cartnerks or whoever. This guy

819
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: is Sebastian Davis, this guy who can't get an acting job,

820
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: did like this extensive video on me, and I was like, thanks,

821
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: I got so many legal cases after it. Right, he

822
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: put my website out there. I was like, damn, my website.

823
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: Look it's good right mates. Yeah, you're like, I merge,

824
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: I emerge on it. I think he was trying to

825
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: level by using it. It didn't really do much from

826
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: because it's not about the shopping cart. There's a greater message.

827
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: And when I think another key thing here is that

828
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: many men have said the same thing, they've done the

829
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: same video, and they don't they didn't get the response

830
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: I got. I mean I got death threats. The FBI

831
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: is involved, they're still involved, they're following people. I had

832
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: some fucking knit with drop off a handwritten letter to

833
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: my office saying I don't want to help your algorithm,

834
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: but I hate you and I hope you die.

835
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's just it's weird because of because you said

836
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: you won't put back a shopping cart.

837
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: Like just think about that for a second. Yeah, I

838
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: mean I know the hook of fuck you didn't help,

839
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: but it helps me, right, all right?

840
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: So what about So the other one you have is

841
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: also one that's really good about kids posting pictures of

842
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: your kids in like bathing suits and things like that.

843
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the shopping cart video, I want to say,

844
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: head over one hundred million reshares and reposts. That was

845
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: insane and then not putting your children on social media

846
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: and understanding the mind of a pedophile and a predator.

847
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: I think those videos are thirty forty million shares and

848
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: views right now, which is kind of insane because people

849
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: people don't like to think about the mind of a pedophile.

850
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: How does a pedophile think? How does he groom people do?

851
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: Where does it start? Right? It starts online, It starts

852
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: by looking at well, I think it starts by looking

853
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: at bathing suits and magazines because that's safer for a pedophile.

854
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: But the stimulation needs to increase for these individuals. They

855
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: want to see live videos, They want to see the

856
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: kids dancing. They want to see potentially maybe a glimpse

857
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: at some kind of sexualized object or something near the child.

858
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: That account with Wren and Jacqueline was horrifying to me.

859
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: She was purposely putting her little beautiful girl next to

860
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: phallic images and posting those pictures and then comments were

861
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: fucking disgusting. Why do a million people need to save

862
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: a video of your four year old sucking on a

863
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: hot dog? Like? It was just horrible.

864
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: I don't even know about this.

865
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I think well. I think her account

866
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: was taken down after I went viral with a video

867
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: about that, and she sent me some fake season desist.

868
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: I have like seventeen lawyers. I don't know what you're doing, idiot.

869
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: But so was she what was she like? Did she

870
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 2: act like she wasn't purposely doing that or no, she

871
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: was just trying to go viral. That's disgusting.

872
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: It's disgusting. And so you've got people purposely using phallic

873
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 1: images like she would have her do with the straw test,

874
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: where she would suck on different straws to guess the

875
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: flavor of the drink, like everything was a phallic image,

876
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: or it was her, you know, sitting crisscross apple sauce

877
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: in a skirt with her body showing and this is

878
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: this is a baby, this is a toddler horrifying. But

879
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: so my videos where I'm really explaining that, you know,

880
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: I've talked to pedophiles, I've worked with them. I gauge

881
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: their violence risk, I assess them, I keep them locked up,

882
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: I keep them away from all of you. I can

883
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: speak to how they are looking at you as prey,

884
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: how they are picking children, how they're standing outside of

885
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: schoolyards hoping that somebody does something on the monkey bars.

886
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: That's stimulating to them.

887
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 3: You know.

888
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: They take this masturbatory stimulation from images on the internet

889
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: that you're providing from kids they see in grocery stores everywhere.

890
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: They take it home. They masturbate. What's next. The next

891
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: thing is that they want a real life child, They

892
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: want to do it, and then they focus on getting one.

893
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and I'm glad that these videos that you're

894
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: doing are going viral because really I know people that

895
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: do this all the time, and you know what, I'm like,

896
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: shout out to my mom. She's been on this from

897
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: day one, which and she isn't in any field or

898
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: anything like that. She just always would be like so

899
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: and so is posting pictures of their kids, like in

900
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: their bathing suit and in their in their dance class

901
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: and this and that, and it is it is interesting

902
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: that my mom would always just be like, I think

903
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 2: that somebody's going to be a pervert and look at this,

904
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: like you shouldn't post pictures like that. And I think

905
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: this is a.

906
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 3: Really important conversation to have because we're often talking about

907
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: safety on the show with you know, so everyone I

908
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: know that's just bought a house posts the front of

909
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 3: their house with their address, and all you have to

910
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 3: do is screenshot at Google re versus and it's right

911
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 3: there on Zilo right, So I think it's dumb. We've

912
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 3: also recently talked about how people are live posting when

913
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 3: they're on vacation, and it just it's either like you're

914
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: not at home so I could rob you, or I

915
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: could follow where you are. I know exactly where you are.

916
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 3: But as somebody that's like, you know, thinking about hopefully

917
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 3: going into motherhood soon and everything, I do think these

918
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 3: videos are important because I'm sitting here questioning am I

919
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: gonna upload any pictures of my children on the internet,

920
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 3: because I feel it is so unsafe anymore in this environment,

921
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 3: and everyone is refusing to accept that because it doesn't

922
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,479
Speaker 3: fit their perfect little Facebook page with their perfect little

923
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 3: family photos. I think it's not smart to show kids'

924
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: faces anymore.

925
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: And you know, I hate to say it. You know

926
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: I would post my kids on my private account all

927
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: the time, and I only had like a handful of

928
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: a few hundred friends followers. Everyone I knew, everyone I

929
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: had spent time with. One of the guys is in

930
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: prison for loot and Lusavia's acts against a twelve year

931
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: old and I he liked every single picture of my

932
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: daughter I posted. I knew him. I worked with him

933
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 1: day in and day out four years, and I didn't

934
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: know it like I. That horrified me. So you've got

935
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: that aspect, then you've also got you know, hackers can

936
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: see your private accounts. They can access your accounts and

937
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: get images of your children, even if your account is

938
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: set to private. It's not common, but it only takes

939
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: one time. Yeah, you know, ude, it only takes one

940
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: time for that to be morphed into some kind of

941
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: deep fake on AI and put on porn hub. And

942
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: now you're sixteen year old. Now you're I don't know,

943
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: a ten year old looks like she's in a sex tape.

944
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: That's what's happening.

945
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,959
Speaker 3: It's really horrible. I mean, we even had a story

946
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 3: a couple months ago where they were considering making child

947
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 3: size sex dolls for pedophiles to use, and how horrific, Like,

948
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 3: in my mind, that's a horrific idea because they're always

949
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 3: going to want to escalate from that exactly, And some

950
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 3: dumb fucking politician was trying to push that forward, saying

951
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: that that would that.

952
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: Lady so bad. Yes, it was like like it's going

953
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: to appease them. No, it's not. Hello, look at Sean

954
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: Coln's nothing appeased as a sex drive. It builds it,

955
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: it grows it. They hone their interest, they hone their crime,

956
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: just like a serial killer. They get cleaner, they get

957
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: better at it, they streamline what they want to do.

958
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: Well, how do you feel about people using the term

959
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 3: maps to try to make pedophilia sound better?

960
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: Well, I mean some of it, some of it I understand,

961
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: like we want to be able to say these things

962
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: so that we can say it on social media and

963
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: people can learn, So there's a positive side to it. Also,

964
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 1: the people who are like super rigid about diagnosing pedophilia

965
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: has very specific criteria, right, So it has to be

966
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 1: a pre pubescent child, there has to be a theme,

967
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: it has to be six months. And so if we

968
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: want to get away from the very uh rigid criteria

969
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: of pedophilia, I don't. We do need other terms, right,

970
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: we need, but what we need to say is a

971
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: paraphilic disorder. We need to say that somebody is a

972
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: predator towards the youth, right, we can't make it sound nicer.

973
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my problem with it because you know, we

974
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: have somebody we know in our life that truly thinks

975
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 3: that's a way to put it, because she believes it's

976
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 3: a sexual preference, which extremely is bothersome to me because

977
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 3: to me, it's like, why are we sugarcoating what it is?

978
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: Because when we stop addressing it like it's something that's bad,

979
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 3: that's when it starts becoming something that's more acceptable and

980
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 3: our kids get hurt more. And I just can't be

981
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 3: okay with that.

982
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: You know, Well, I think it could be both like

983
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 2: it is it is. I think that more people need

984
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 2: to realize that it is a sexual preference. So like

985
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 2: the way I want to have sex with my husband,

986
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: like these people feel like they want to have sex

987
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: with children, Right, It's kind of it's kind of like

988
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 2: an attraction, but it's not like it's not good. It's

989
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: nothing that we should ever try to be like, oh, well,

990
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 2: they're sick. It's kind of I don't know, like I

991
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 2: look at it like they're sick and they need to

992
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 2: be eliminated off the planet kind of thing, because I

993
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 2: just I can't tolerate that. But I think it could

994
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: be both.

995
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a like a sexual preference, though,

996
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: because that implies positivity and choice. I think it's a

997
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: pathologically deviant, disturbing, sadistic form of stimulation and entertainment for

998
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: individuals who are sick in the head, right, And so

999
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: that's what I do a lot when I testify to

1000
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: juries is yeah, lawyers, lawyers are bashful when it comes

1001
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: to a grown male's erect penis went into a two

1002
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: year old vagina and led to this tearing. And here's

1003
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: the imagery, and let's talk about what like, lawyers get

1004
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 1: bashful a lot of the time, and they don't want

1005
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: then they don't want the jury to hear that. But

1006
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: the reality is that these are sadistic, fucking crimes. They

1007
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: are horrifying, and they are brutalizing children. And the images

1008
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: of the children after these men have harmed them, I'll

1009
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,439
Speaker 1: never get them out of my mind. I never want

1010
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: anyone to ever have to endure that, to find their

1011
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,959
Speaker 1: child like that, to sit through a court case having

1012
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: to talk about this and see these images. Why not

1013
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: just prevent it? Is there?

1014
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: Do you think that there's a way, Like, so you're

1015
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: saying it's not a sexual preference, So so is there

1016
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: a way that these people have like they're married and

1017
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: they have like normal kind of sex lives with I

1018
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: don't want to say normal, but they have like a

1019
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: normal kind of sex life with their husband their wife.

1020
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: And then yeah, and then is that what you're saying

1021
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: that they could like have that, but then they also

1022
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 2: just have this deviant behavior as well, Like it's like

1023
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 2: are they are if they're attracted? I want to do

1024
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: this to children, like do they have attraction towards adults too?

1025
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: Or no?

1026
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 2: Do they enjoy having normal, like like adult sex.

1027
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 1: I think they. I think there's a beginning to it

1028
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: where there's a confusion. You know, I have these desires,

1029
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: do I act on them? Because they are illegal and

1030
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: horrendous and so there is an element where it becomes

1031
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: a choice. They choose to act on the disordered thinking.

1032
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: I like to I like to explain it like a

1033
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: grown man has a grown man's sex drive, but an

1034
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: attraction emotionally and intellectually to a child. So you know,

1035
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: what is what is it like talking to a six

1036
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: year old right or a four year old? They're really

1037
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: they make you feel good, They're really happy. You know

1038
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: that they're happy little beings and they think you're funny,

1039
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: and you can do very little to make them a gigle. Right,

1040
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: That's what the pedophile is misconstruing as this child is

1041
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: interested in me, and then they're overlaying now with this

1042
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: adult sex drive and deluding it to think like, okay,

1043
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: they want me to have sex with them.

1044
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: Do you think that there's any like this is your

1045
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,479
Speaker 2: honest opinion, Like, do you think that there's a way

1046
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 2: to fix these peoples that thought that's in their head

1047
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: that makes them act on that.

1048
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: Consequences? I think keeping them away from what they want

1049
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: is the only thing that we can do.

1050
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: Because that's I mean, that's scary because when someone gets

1051
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: accused of it, obviously they don't really a lot of

1052
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: them don't get that much punishment, and they are able

1053
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: to do it again. So what's the solution Just to

1054
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: put them on an island somewhere where they just can

1055
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: never have I mean, it's just.

1056
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: Well, people like to make fun of California, of course

1057
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: everyone does, But in California, we have a Welfare and

1058
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: Institution Code where sexually violent predators are held as patients.

1059
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: They are held they're civilly committed, and they're held in

1060
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: a place called coalinga state hospital and other places. But

1061
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: the whole thing with that is that unless they engage

1062
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: in treatment in a meaningful way and change is seen,

1063
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: they can't get out. So they don't have a prison time.

1064
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: There's no clock ticking. It's a life sentence unless they,

1065
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: as a patient improve and no one does. So we're

1066
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: not killing them all. We can't. Right in California, I

1067
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: think we figured out a pretty good way to lock

1068
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: them up for life.

1069
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 3: That is really interesting. I was going to make a

1070
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 3: bad joke that was like, that's how we should have

1071
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 3: transformed Pedophile Island, perhaps instead of another hotel conglomerate buying

1072
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: it to make your resort on. But I think that's

1073
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 3: really interesting you guys do that in California because we're

1074
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 3: always talking about how, you know, these people get convicted

1075
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 3: of these horrific rapes and they're only going to jail

1076
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 3: for four years, and we always are arguing that that's

1077
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 3: just as bad as killing somebody. You're taking their entire

1078
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 3: life emotionally, and there's only so much work a victim

1079
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 3: could do to get over that, and a lot of

1080
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 3: victims are able to move forward and everything, but it's

1081
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 3: still always there, so why aren't these people getting convicted

1082
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 3: as such?

1083
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 1: Right? And so, like, you know, I have a case

1084
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: right now of a very similar case. Will he become

1085
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: a sexually violent predator or not? It takes extensive psychological testing,

1086
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: so much collateral information. How is he in group therapy

1087
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: when he's in the state hospital? Is he engaging in

1088
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: a meaningful way? How do you gauge that? Like, there's

1089
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: so many different components. What's their violence, what's their sexual

1090
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: violence recidivism rate? We use all these statistics. There's so

1091
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: much that goes into it. But when you just lock

1092
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: a guy up with the sentence and then he gets

1093
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: out and has to register as a sex offender, I

1094
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: don't think it's enough.

1095
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 3: No, I agree one hundred.

1096
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 2: Do they when you talk to them, do they feel

1097
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: bad about this about themselves? Do they wish they weren't

1098
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: like this? Or do they not think that there's anything

1099
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 2: wrong with it?

1100
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm biased because I do work with

1101
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: the most severe, But I think there are individuals early

1102
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: on who still have that insight and that cognitive dissonance

1103
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: where they know it's wrong and they don't want to

1104
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: have this this drive, and they if they do act

1105
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: on it. Sometimes there is a bit of remorse, but

1106
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: usually it is so exhilarating for them that they continue

1107
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: to act on it, and they lack insight, they lack remorse,

1108
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: they lack the ability to do they don't care for

1109
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: the most part. But there's that small percentage people message

1110
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: me on Instagram or even TikTok just saying, like, you know,

1111
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: I really like anime, I really like the youthful characters

1112
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: in anime. Does that mean I'm in danger of being

1113
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: a pedophile? And my response is always go see a therapist.

1114
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not your therapist. If you're questioning if

1115
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: you're going to be a pedophile, go see a therapist,

1116
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: get help, get support, prevent it. And it's wonderful that

1117
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: they are even questioning it because maybe we have a

1118
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: chance at intervention at that point before it becomes an

1119
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: all encompassed view of sexuality for them.

1120
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of cool that people feel comfortable.

1121
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: I mean, they should get a therapist, but it's cool

1122
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 2: that they feel comfortable like emailing you to question something

1123
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 2: that they feel they may not have ever thought of

1124
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 2: if you didn't bring it up.

1125
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 1: I know, I get so much hate, but also I'm

1126
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: actually quite helpful. Guys.

1127
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 3: You have an awesome sweatshirt too that says I'm not

1128
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 3: your fucking therapist, which.

1129
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: Is yeah, that's my liability.

1130
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 3: No, that's it's an awesome sweatshirt. It's like a beautiful

1131
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 3: black sweashirt with this hot pink writing. It's very dainty, bright,

1132
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 3: and I love it.

1133
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's so great.

1134
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 3: Well, on this dark note, I guess it's doctor Leslie.

1135
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 3: Please tell everybody where.

1136
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: They could find you. Oh gosh, I'm everywhere. So doctor

1137
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: Leslie Dobson mostly on Instagram and TikTok is kind of

1138
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: where I put my efforts in where I will respond

1139
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: to your messages and comments. My website is doctor Leslie

1140
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: Doobson dot com. If you need me as an expert,

1141
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: as an expert witness, you can reach out that way.

1142
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: And then I have a group of assistants that will

1143
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: respond to you. You know, I do get a lot

1144
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: of crazy messages, so there's a team behind me. And

1145
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: then the new podcast is intentionally disturbing with iHeartRadio and

1146
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: that's everywhere you listen to podcasts, right, I don't really

1147
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: even know. And on my YouTube if you want to

1148
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: see the people I'm talking to.

1149
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on. This is an

1150
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 3: awesome conversation. I think our listeners are really gonna love it.

1151
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much.

1152
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I'm glad we we covered quite

1153
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: an array of topics.

1154
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder,

1155
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 2: my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a

1156
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 2: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.

1157
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed

1158
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 2: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of

1159
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 2: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social

1160
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based

1161
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 2: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make

1162
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 2: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember

1163
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 2: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed

1164
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:01,919
Speaker 2: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those

1165
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having

1166
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a

1167
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 2: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent

1168
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and

1169
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or

1170
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 2: anywhere you get podcasts.

1171
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: Thanks