WEBVTT - Boys Will Be Boys w/ Dr. Adam Price 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:04.360 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:14.480 in partnership with I Heart Radio. Just a quick disclaimer, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.960 this episode was recorded pre pandemic. Welcome back to Katie's Crib. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.640 Today's topic HiT's very close to home for me as 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:25.920 a mother of my two year old son, Albi. At 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:30.200 a time when we're redefining masculinity and challenging social expectations 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.159 that boys have to always be tough. I often think about, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.720 like how we raise our boys and keep them growing 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.000 in the right direction. When I talk about this topic 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.040 with my New Yorker mom friends. Because I'm here in 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.400 New York shooting you guys, I was like, who could 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.239 I talk to? And they said I had to bring 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.880 in Dr Adam Price to help me navigate and talk 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.240 about this topic. Dr Adam Price is a clinical psychologist 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.440 with more than twenty five years of experience working with 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.200 children and their families UM. He's published articles on family 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.680 and child therapy in The Wall Street Journal and Family Circle, 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.240 and author of the book He's Not Lazy Empowering your 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.600 Son to Believe in himself. Great title. Thank you. I'm 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.280 very excited to have you here to talk about what 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:12.520 goes on in a boy's world and how we raise 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.399 them to be good men. So I want to start 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.880 with play because I know you I don't do prominently 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.199 deal with older, more teenage boys, or I do now, Katie. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.240 But listen, before we start, I want to tell you 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.960 I think it's so amazing that you're using your platform 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.720 and your fame to do this and to have wonderful 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.080 conversations for a couple of years now with you know 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.399 about parenting. It's really you're doing a good thing here, 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.679 very nice. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I work 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.240 with teens. I have worked with kids from you know, 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.720 from his youngest two. Yeah, great, So, like I have 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:48.760 a two year old, and of course, being me, I 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.720 was really into making sure he was playing with all 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.520 sort of gender neutral toys and colors and all these 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.240 kinds of things. You know, my kid is obsessed with trucks, buses, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:06.160 motorcycle helmets, scooters, wheels, and also he's obsessed with wrestling, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:08.960 like that's like a huge part of his play. And 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.520 I hate it, like I'm uncomfortable by it. Why are 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.760 you uncomfortable? I mean, I like it to a point, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.200 but once it starts getting like really aggressive, which he 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.919 can do and be Um. I I'm just like, like, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.679 I don't like this, Like it's just like not how 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:27.280 I physically communicate. Um. And I've read a lot of 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.160 books about how important that is for boys in their 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.600 way of playing, in their way of like physically touching 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.680 with their dad or their friends or whatever that is. Um, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.239 So can you talk to me about boys how they play? 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.840 And again, this is sort of sweeping generalizations in a way, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.240 because I don't think this is all boys. Well, whenever 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.000 I talked to parents of young kids, get asked that question. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.760 So it really is on the minds of parents, especially today, 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.840 and it's a great place to start. The thing is 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.960 that boys and girls that their brains are not really 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.520 that different. Uh. We'd like to think that there are 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.359 boys and as a very different men and women are, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.120 but boys and girls brains aren't that different. Boys and 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.680 girls developed the same skills, the same abilities, but at 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.359 a different rate and in a different order, Like girls 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.440 talk earlier and boys talks lower. Well, yeah, so here's 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.919 that's a good example of So for example, a girl's 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.840 vocabulary at twenty months is larger than boys, but only 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.480 by about you know, ten or twelve words. Now those 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.960 can be significant words, but it's those kind of settle differences. 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.520 But physically there are differences. So you know the old 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.480 adage boys will be boys. I think it's really true. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.120 And there are, of course societal norms. So you know, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.160 pink used to be the caller that boys are dressed 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.960 in in the last two centuries ago, right in the 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.360 eighteen hundreds, and then then that became what you heard 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.480 it here, folks, are you kidding? Pink used to be 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.160 for boys and blue used to be for girls. I 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.040 don't know what caused the change. Um, And you know, 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.080 and you know those those pictures in the eighteen hundreds 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.920 of boys dressed and dresses little little toddlers, you know. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.640 So so there's there's a big societal imprint and impact. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.360 But I don't think there's anything wrong with boys being boys. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.160 And when I talk about these issues, and I talked 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.040 to parents and around the country about about masculinity, I 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.640 always stress that we want our boys to be boys. Um. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:19.640 The opposite to me of masculinity isn't femininity, it's authenticity. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.120 So the idea is to help boys beautiful, oh, thank you, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.920 to help boys to be comfortable with who they are, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.240 so I don't and with their feelings, but not to 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:34.000 be any less rough and tumble. That's who boys are actually, 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:35.840 you know. And boys are more from birth and more 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:40.440 sensitive than girls. Boys are more fussy, Uh, they're more um, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.880 they need more reassurance. To be honest, I feel like 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.320 my son is like very emotional compared to a lot 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.440 of his girls his age that are that are you know, 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.360 within a month of his birth date. Like, I just 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.440 feel like he his emotional Um, he gets there quicker, 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.200 you know, like he'll just cry, you know, and I 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.640 try again, Like it's really funny. I really try to 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.039 always be like it's okay, Like I want him to 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.159 be able to cry and feel comfortable with doing so. Um, 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.520 at what point is the line where like rough and 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.360 tumble play is too much? Or do you hear these 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.880 stories still of parents of boy little boy crying and 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.000 parents saying like, don't cry, and and that's sort of right. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.600 So that's what happens. And by the way, I want 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:23.960 to make sure that when you leave here, you're not 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.560 going to be worried about your son playing with trucks 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:28.440 and guns and all that stuff. Oh god, I couldn't 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.599 even know, because honestly, what I've learned in motherhood more 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.720 than anything else is whatever brings your son or daughter 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.599 joy is what brings me joy. Like I'll be on 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.120 the plane leaving my son for a day and all 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.560 I'm doing is videotaping any truck to send to my 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.359 husband's But you know, like, because I can't see a 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.119 truck without thinking of my son, and we're both actors, 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.360 I don't give a shit about trucks. It's really hard, 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.600 it's really hard to change these these norms when I 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.320 was and they're fine. I mean, I really want to 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.200 be reassuring to you and the parents that are listening. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.960 Kids need limits, and boys need more limits and girls 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.040 so you know, obviously, um, when they're when they're rough 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.040 and tumble becomes too out of control, then it's your 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.440 job to step in because then you're teaching them to 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:11.440 regulate themselves and to do it for them when they can't. Um. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.120 But but just the kind of thing they do, they've 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.480 got a lot of energy. God, there's a boy code 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.000 and you even refer to it, you know from a 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:24.360 young age. Boys here, big boys don't cry, grow a pair, 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.719 shake it off, you know, And when when when boys 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.720 are not tough enough, they're told that they're being a girl. Right. 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.760 So boys hear this, and so there becomes this boy 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.360 code that that you can never be you know, a worse, 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.720 a nerd h the dreaded effort, you know which, which 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.800 we don't like to hear anymore. But kids call each 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.080 other that, you know all the time. Um, And so 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.359 boys learning at a young age that they have to 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.080 hide a part of themselves. Because boys and girls prove 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.760 themselves in different ways. This is really interesting, and if 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.720 you think about it, it it will make sense. Girls prove 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.120 themselves by who they know, by their social network. This 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.159 is why when girls get to be in middle school 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.080 there's a whole mean girl phenomena, and why girls are 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.840 more cooperative in school because they want to please a teacher. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.320 The boys don't really give a hoot because for boys, 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.200 social status comes from what they can do. Who can 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.280 throw a football at the farthest, who can run the fastest, 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.000 even beat a video game. It's it's unfortunately not who 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:22.800 got straight a's or who scored you know, the lead 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.160 in the school musical. But this is how boys proved 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.320 themselves and and men have to do this too. We're 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.960 always proving ourselves, not to women, but to other men. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.200 And that's just wiring. It's it's our society and it's 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.600 and it's it's the messages that we're giving, we're giving 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.000 our boys. And so when does that happen? You know, 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.920 it probably happens. I mean I've seen it. The little 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.520 soccer field were called a swarm ball, you know, when 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.480 the kids were three and four. You know, you know, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.920 maybe that's a little young, but big boys don't cry. 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.240 And I've seen parents say the kids, that's probably not 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.080 the best message. No, you don't want to do that. 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:54.840 What do you want to say when a boy cries? 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.760 You want to just let him cry, you know, and 0:07:57.840 --> 0:07:59.640 let him get his feelings out. I unless he's having 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.160 a temperate tantra, mean, you need to uh, you need 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.360 to help him to regulate again. But I had a 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.400 young man in office, he's a college student, the other 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.360 night and he was really falling apart, you know, he 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:12.160 was really under tremendous stress, and he kept almost crying 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.640 that cheers would almost emerge, and then he would hold back, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.480 and I said, you should cry, you know, it's going 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.080 to make you feel better. And eventually he did, but 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.320 it was so humiliating. We can talk about shame too. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.800 It was so humiliated to get into that. Yeah, because 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.680 for him to even in front of his therapist. I've 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.240 known him for many years now, you know, since he 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.800 was a high school student, and he trust me. But 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.560 it still is just that loss of control. So yeah, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.520 you let him cry and we can get into it 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:40.200 more in terms of, you know, some of the other things. Interesting. Um, so, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.120 where does this go into bullying in school? I know 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.960 that that word is like, Wow, I feel like it's 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.560 used a lot. I think it's terrible and horrifying. And 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.079 I haven't gotten to that place yet. But like the 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.720 first time my kid is bullied or is bullying, Oh 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.120 my god, what the hell would I do or will 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:03.000 I do when my son's bullying? Well, I don't think 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.680 your son is going to be a bully. Oh we 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.400 don't know. But but a bully is different than someone 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.880 who's being too aggressive, a boy who's being too aggressive 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.280 or two mean. And the thing is that we can't 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.920 raise boys or girls to be so sensitive. And I 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.280 think we're really veering in that direction, uh, in a 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.600 in a really scary way. Um, these days, a lot 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.920 of people write about that now, but we we can't 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.320 raise them to be too sensitive or to always need protection. Um. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.240 I'll say something in a minute that may contradict that 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.760 a little bit, but but I think that's true. So 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.280 just like you have to, you know, tolerate your son's 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.360 being a little aggressive. That's going to be a part 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.360 of boyhood. And teachers aren't going to see it because 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.280 it happens in the less structure of times at school. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.240 It happens on the playground, it happens in jim class, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.959 are in lunch. You're not gonna necessarily here that he's 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.120 being mean or bullying unless someone tells you. Um, if 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.439 someone tells you that, I'll tell you right now. The reactions. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:54.840 I'm gonna be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.960 And my husband's going to be like quick to the 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.080 like disproving them. He's going to be quick to like, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:02.559 what what did he say? Well, I don't think he 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:04.160 said like you know what I mean. Like, my husband's 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.120 like very um and I love that about him, but 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.440 he will want to make sure that all the facts 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:14.000 are straight. You know, Well, that's good. He's what's your 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.240 son's name, Albi? Albi, so he's got Albie's back. Yes, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.679 oh so that's great. But here's here's a really helpful 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:28.959 parenting tip. The parenting tip is not to talk. Holy oakes, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.439 just listen. I have to shut up instead of my 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.040 husband and we're both talkers. Well yeah, you're your your actress, 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:36.240 so you're going to be talked to us, and your 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.880 son's gonna have to learn to keep up with that. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.920 But but the thing is that that it's really important, 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.599 even at a young age, to understand not just the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.800 child's perspective. We think empathy is understanding the child's perspective, 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.280 but it's really important to understand how that perspective makes 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.160 sense to them, you know, not necessarily to us. And 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.560 once you get there with with a kid and you 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:03.240 listen and you ask questions, and also just be quiet, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.880 because quiet lets other people have the space to talk, 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.000 even little ones. Um, you're gonna understand a little bit 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.760 more about about what's going on if you get the message, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.320 you know, uh, I'll be kicked, you know billion in 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.480 school today the other day I was talking. It was 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:21.360 it was kind of similar talking to fourteen year old kid, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.400 who who's whose friend? Who? Someone who wanted to be 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.200 friends with him and asked him a sensitive question about 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:29.720 when he was going on to the next level of school. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.920 Because this this young man because of some learning difficulties 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.240 that repeated a great early on. So he ghosted, he 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.000 ghoested the kid, and he got back through the older brother. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.800 So the parents were wonderful, parents have done everything for 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.800 this kid. Um, but we're you know, and I too 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.920 were thinking, okay, so this is an opportunity to talk 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.959 about how he feels about his learning issues and how 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.000 to deal with that situation. So I started doing that, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.320 went down that road. Um. I asked him, you know, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.719 tell me what you think, and he said, well, I'll 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.720 tell you something. I don't like that kid. Most people 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.000 don't like the kids, so I don't want to be 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.080 friends with that kid. So if I wanted to be 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:03.840 friends with that kid, I would have never goes to him. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.800 I would have told him what the deal is. But 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.360 it was easier for me because I don't want to 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.520 encourage the friendship. So I'm sure both perspectives are true, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.679 but you know, that's his perspective. So I think that 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.480 for most parents whose kids aren't too aggressive and aren't 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.080 getting calls all the time, I mean, that's a whole 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.360 other issue. Right then it's it's important you can tell 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.400 you Adam not to be so defensive at first because 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.040 he wants to hear from Albi's perspective, Because then that 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.679 gives you a place to start talking to him about 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.720 what's an appropriate way to express yourself or to push 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.559 back or to stick up for yourself. So I think 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.240 that that's that's really crucial. I want to go back 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.840 and just talk about the other side of the bulling, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.560 which is being bullied. And I want to go back 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.240 to because I said earlier, I was going to contradict 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:44.559 something I said, so I want to be true to 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.200 my promise. Um. So, so kids boys do need to 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.480 know how to handle themselves on the playground. And so 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.720 when I'm working with with kids, I often talk to 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.240 them about how they recover because sometimes it's just pushing 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.280 and shoving and name calling. And no one likes to 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.240 be called names. But if your boy, you have to 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.280 be able to laugh it off and call it get 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.080 another you know, another name. If you're too sensitive, then 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.320 you're gonna get bullied. You get bullied more so, how 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.559 a kid recovers, it's really it's important to teach them 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.280 that even though you're hurting inside, if it's just normal 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.600 kind of you know, just kind of jostling in the 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.720 guys of fun, you have to be able to kind 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.120 of keep up with that because if you don't, you're 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.240 gonna get bullied more. And kids can be really mean. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.680 You know, they don't have they don't have the some 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.240 of the social controls that we as adults like to 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.640 think we have. If you live in New York and 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.199 you drive, you know that or O L is much worse, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.800 Oh my god, much worse. Yeah, you know, you have 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.800 to be able to talk to somebody. And this is 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.199 where it gets sticky, because I've worked with kids who 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.080 I work with them in two thousand, two thousand nineteen. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:46.840 They come in and they say, yeah, I was bullied 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.800 last year, and I'm like, I saw you every day 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.520 every week last year, you know, once a week. Why 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.560 didn't you tell me? Because they're embarrassed, they're humiliated, and 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.160 then they don't want parents to get involved, the teacher 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.040 to get involved, because it makes it worse. But I 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.360 do think sometimes, especially when they're little, if it's a 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.280 repeated pattern, an adult has to get involved. Hopefully the 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.560 adult is sensitive and can deal with it because not 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.920 every not every educator is in terms of dealing with 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.800 it so that it doesn't have ramifications on the kid, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.040 but into what's happened. And you know, I practice here 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.520 in New York and in New Jersey, and in New 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.560 Jersey they are bulling laws now a number of years. Um, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.560 there's a whole procedure that teachers and administrators have to 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.640 go to a bulling is reported paperwork conversation. It really 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.760 backfires though, I feel like that's yeah, that seems not 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:36.800 because a kid being bullied probably wants and help, but 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.240 they also I don't want to shine too much attention 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.160 on it or yes, because it'll get worse and worse 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.600 and worse, right right, right, So you have to choose 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.520 who you're going to tell. But usually when you're at 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:52.200 that level, that young person has already has the attention 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.720 of the schools. Um. Wow. The other thing I tell 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.080 kids who are bullied is listen. I've had a few 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.000 who I'd like to say I kicked the kid when 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.520 no one's looking, but you know, I can't say that 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.320 but stand up and yell at them, make them embarrassed, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:08.760 draw attention to what they're doing so, you know, you 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.400 can shut them down. And I feel like into bullying 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:12.920 is such a thing. I feel like you could stand 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.760 up today and say like you're bullying, Like you could 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.080 say that very loud, and people would look probably and 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.120 get attention for him. I had the other experience, which 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.240 doesn't it's not so flattering to me, but but it 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.440 really is, because this is a part of a normal 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.880 experience in seventh grade, when a lot of this happens. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.120 There was a kid that everybody picked on and I 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.400 wasn't particularly nice to him. I wasn't I didn't beat 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.320 him up, I didn't, you know, but I wasn't nice 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:34.560 to him and he knew it. And we had our 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.360 lockers next to each other, so you know, I would 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.280 close his locker, turn his locker around every once in 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.560 a while. One day he can I get goose bumps 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:42.000 telling you. And this was a long time ago. I'm 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.320 a little older. He said to me. He said, Adam, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:46.760 why do you do that? Why do you treat me 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.760 that way? You know, why do you pick on me? 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.880 And I said, you know what? And I believe his 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.400 name was Johnny said, I have no idea, and he 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.520 taught me this kid who everybody else picked on. But 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.000 he taught me such an important lesson of compassion when 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.480 I was that age, I never picked on him again. Um, 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.480 you're like, I don't know why. Yeah, he just he 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:23.480 just kind of asked it flat out. Tell me about consent? Consent? Yes, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.600 do you talk a lot about this right now with 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.720 people and doing lectures about it, Like you must be 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.680 traveling the Try State area talking about the country and 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.160 the country because it's really on people's minds, and you know, consent. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.480 So my take on consent is that you're not. Your 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.240 son is not too old for you to ask me 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:47.160 that question, because I think that what we need to 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.880 help There's a few things, but one is emotional intelligence. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:54.760 We'll talk about that, but helping children understand from an 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:59.200 early age of value driven conversation about sex. Now, it 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.040 depends what your val use are, but the point is 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.080 to talk about sex with kids in the context of 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.280 a relationship, in the context of you know what the 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.760 meaning is, um, because that's what I think will help 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.560 them later on. You know, I remember when I was 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.760 I think I was in seventh grade two. My mother, 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.160 you know, it's still amazed that she did this. We're 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.119 getting sex education. And again this was seventy to nineteen 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.600 seventy three. UM, and she said to me, Adam, I 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.160 want you to know whatever they tell you a school 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:31.760 about sex, they're not going to tell you one thing. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:33.760 And I said, oh God, I don't want to have 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.399 this conversation with you. But what is it? And she 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.240 said sex is fun and sex is pleasurable and that 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:46.520 was like, that was great sex education. UM. So you know, 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.359 there's interesting things that studies that have happened. Uh, people 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.720 have looked at whether the just say no abstinence message 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.560 helps it actually causes higher team pregnancy. Not a good 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.120 message because it's not sex relationships much a complicated that's 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.040 so black or white. It's like ridiculous. It's not whether 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:05.600 you believe in it or not, it's just that that's 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.200 not a good message. Peggy Orgstein, who's written about girls 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:11.879 and I think she's coming out with a book about boys, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.800 she had a piece in the New York Times about 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.879 about this issue, and she she looked at Holland and 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.480 there's a much lower incidence of teen pregnancy in Holland. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:29.000 Kids have sexual relationships, but girls are much more able, 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.320 according to the research, to be able to say what 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:32.960 they do want to do, what they don't want to do. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.760 And girls report, compared to girls in the United States, 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.720 that their first sexual encounter is within a relationship, a 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.919 loving relationship, much more so than here that is just 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:46.040 a hook up. The reason is because people are more 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.919 comfortable with sex in Holland, you know, and we can 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.520 have all sorts of stereotypes, but it isn't more liberal society. 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.800 But they talk to kids more about it. Teachers talk 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:56.560 to kids about it, parents talk to kids about it. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.000 They do it from an early age. So my advice 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.360 is star talking about sex and get over your discomfort 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.879 talking about it, because you're the one who wants to 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.040 give the important messages. The concern is is the messages 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.240 that boys get. It's going back to what we're talking 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.960 about a little bit before, you know, which is be tough. Um. 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.520 You know, don't show any emotions any time you enter 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.760 into intimacy with with another person. It's a contract. And 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.199 and kids are going to be having sex, you know, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.720 so parents have to appreciate that they need to talk 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.800 about it. Um. And if your values are that you 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.199 should wait till marriage to have sex, that's okay. You 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.480