1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Just a quick disclaimer, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: this episode was recorded pre pandemic. Welcome back to Katie's Crib. 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Today's topic HiT's very close to home for me as 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: a mother of my two year old son, Albi. At 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: a time when we're redefining masculinity and challenging social expectations 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: that boys have to always be tough. I often think about, 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: like how we raise our boys and keep them growing 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: in the right direction. When I talk about this topic 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: with my New Yorker mom friends. Because I'm here in 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: New York shooting you guys, I was like, who could 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: I talk to? And they said I had to bring 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: in Dr Adam Price to help me navigate and talk 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: about this topic. Dr Adam Price is a clinical psychologist 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: with more than twenty five years of experience working with 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: children and their families UM. He's published articles on family 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: and child therapy in The Wall Street Journal and Family Circle, 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: and author of the book He's Not Lazy Empowering your 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: Son to Believe in himself. Great title. Thank you. I'm 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: very excited to have you here to talk about what 21 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: goes on in a boy's world and how we raise 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: them to be good men. So I want to start 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: with play because I know you I don't do prominently 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: deal with older, more teenage boys, or I do now, Katie. 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: But listen, before we start, I want to tell you 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: I think it's so amazing that you're using your platform 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: and your fame to do this and to have wonderful 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: conversations for a couple of years now with you know 29 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: about parenting. It's really you're doing a good thing here, 30 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: very nice. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I work 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: with teens. I have worked with kids from you know, 32 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: from his youngest two. Yeah, great, So, like I have 33 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: a two year old, and of course, being me, I 34 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: was really into making sure he was playing with all 35 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: sort of gender neutral toys and colors and all these 36 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: kinds of things. You know, my kid is obsessed with trucks, buses, 37 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: motorcycle helmets, scooters, wheels, and also he's obsessed with wrestling, 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: like that's like a huge part of his play. And 39 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: I hate it, like I'm uncomfortable by it. Why are 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: you uncomfortable? I mean, I like it to a point, 41 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: but once it starts getting like really aggressive, which he 42 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: can do and be Um. I I'm just like, like, 43 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: I don't like this, Like it's just like not how 44 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: I physically communicate. Um. And I've read a lot of 45 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: books about how important that is for boys in their 46 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: way of playing, in their way of like physically touching 47 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: with their dad or their friends or whatever that is. Um, 48 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: So can you talk to me about boys how they play? 49 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: And again, this is sort of sweeping generalizations in a way, 50 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: because I don't think this is all boys. Well, whenever 51 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: I talked to parents of young kids, get asked that question. 52 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: So it really is on the minds of parents, especially today, 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: and it's a great place to start. The thing is 54 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: that boys and girls that their brains are not really 55 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: that different. Uh. We'd like to think that there are 56 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: boys and as a very different men and women are, 57 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: but boys and girls brains aren't that different. Boys and 58 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: girls developed the same skills, the same abilities, but at 59 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: a different rate and in a different order, Like girls 60 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: talk earlier and boys talks lower. Well, yeah, so here's 61 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: that's a good example of So for example, a girl's 62 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: vocabulary at twenty months is larger than boys, but only 63 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: by about you know, ten or twelve words. Now those 64 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: can be significant words, but it's those kind of settle differences. 65 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: But physically there are differences. So you know the old 66 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: adage boys will be boys. I think it's really true. 67 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: And there are, of course societal norms. So you know, 68 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: pink used to be the caller that boys are dressed 69 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: in in the last two centuries ago, right in the 70 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, and then then that became what you heard 71 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: it here, folks, are you kidding? Pink used to be 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: for boys and blue used to be for girls. I 73 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: don't know what caused the change. Um, And you know, 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: and you know those those pictures in the eighteen hundreds 75 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: of boys dressed and dresses little little toddlers, you know. 76 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: So so there's there's a big societal imprint and impact. 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: But I don't think there's anything wrong with boys being boys. 78 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: And when I talk about these issues, and I talked 79 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: to parents and around the country about about masculinity, I 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: always stress that we want our boys to be boys. Um. 81 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: The opposite to me of masculinity isn't femininity, it's authenticity. 82 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: So the idea is to help boys beautiful, oh, thank you, 83 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: to help boys to be comfortable with who they are, 84 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: so I don't and with their feelings, but not to 85 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: be any less rough and tumble. That's who boys are actually, 86 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: you know. And boys are more from birth and more 87 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: sensitive than girls. Boys are more fussy, Uh, they're more um, 88 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: they need more reassurance. To be honest, I feel like 89 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: my son is like very emotional compared to a lot 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: of his girls his age that are that are you know, 91 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: within a month of his birth date. Like, I just 92 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: feel like he his emotional Um, he gets there quicker, 93 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: you know, like he'll just cry, you know, and I 94 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: try again, Like it's really funny. I really try to 95 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: always be like it's okay, Like I want him to 96 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: be able to cry and feel comfortable with doing so. Um, 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: at what point is the line where like rough and 98 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: tumble play is too much? Or do you hear these 99 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: stories still of parents of boy little boy crying and 100 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: parents saying like, don't cry, and and that's sort of right. 101 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: So that's what happens. And by the way, I want 102 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: to make sure that when you leave here, you're not 103 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: going to be worried about your son playing with trucks 104 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: and guns and all that stuff. Oh god, I couldn't 105 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: even know, because honestly, what I've learned in motherhood more 106 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: than anything else is whatever brings your son or daughter 107 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: joy is what brings me joy. Like I'll be on 108 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: the plane leaving my son for a day and all 109 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm doing is videotaping any truck to send to my 110 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: husband's But you know, like, because I can't see a 111 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 1: truck without thinking of my son, and we're both actors, 112 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: I don't give a shit about trucks. It's really hard, 113 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: it's really hard to change these these norms when I 114 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: was and they're fine. I mean, I really want to 115 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: be reassuring to you and the parents that are listening. 116 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: Kids need limits, and boys need more limits and girls 117 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: so you know, obviously, um, when they're when they're rough 118 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: and tumble becomes too out of control, then it's your 119 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: job to step in because then you're teaching them to 120 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: regulate themselves and to do it for them when they can't. Um. 121 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: But but just the kind of thing they do, they've 122 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: got a lot of energy. God, there's a boy code 123 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: and you even refer to it, you know from a 124 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: young age. Boys here, big boys don't cry, grow a pair, 125 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: shake it off, you know, And when when when boys 126 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: are not tough enough, they're told that they're being a girl. Right. 127 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: So boys hear this, and so there becomes this boy 128 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: code that that you can never be you know, a worse, 129 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: a nerd h the dreaded effort, you know which, which 130 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: we don't like to hear anymore. But kids call each 131 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: other that, you know all the time. Um, And so 132 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: boys learning at a young age that they have to 133 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: hide a part of themselves. Because boys and girls prove 134 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: themselves in different ways. This is really interesting, and if 135 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: you think about it, it it will make sense. Girls prove 136 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: themselves by who they know, by their social network. This 137 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: is why when girls get to be in middle school 138 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: there's a whole mean girl phenomena, and why girls are 139 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: more cooperative in school because they want to please a teacher. 140 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: The boys don't really give a hoot because for boys, 141 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: social status comes from what they can do. Who can 142 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: throw a football at the farthest, who can run the fastest, 143 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: even beat a video game. It's it's unfortunately not who 144 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: got straight a's or who scored you know, the lead 145 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: in the school musical. But this is how boys proved 146 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: themselves and and men have to do this too. We're 147 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: always proving ourselves, not to women, but to other men. 148 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: And that's just wiring. It's it's our society and it's 149 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's the messages that we're giving, we're giving 150 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: our boys. And so when does that happen? You know, 151 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: it probably happens. I mean I've seen it. The little 152 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: soccer field were called a swarm ball, you know, when 153 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: the kids were three and four. You know, you know, 154 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: maybe that's a little young, but big boys don't cry. 155 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: And I've seen parents say the kids, that's probably not 156 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: the best message. No, you don't want to do that. 157 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: What do you want to say when a boy cries? 158 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: You want to just let him cry, you know, and 159 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: let him get his feelings out. I unless he's having 160 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: a temperate tantra, mean, you need to uh, you need 161 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: to help him to regulate again. But I had a 162 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: young man in office, he's a college student, the other 163 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: night and he was really falling apart, you know, he 164 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: was really under tremendous stress, and he kept almost crying 165 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: that cheers would almost emerge, and then he would hold back, 166 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: and I said, you should cry, you know, it's going 167 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: to make you feel better. And eventually he did, but 168 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: it was so humiliating. We can talk about shame too. 169 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: It was so humiliated to get into that. Yeah, because 170 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: for him to even in front of his therapist. I've 171 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: known him for many years now, you know, since he 172 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: was a high school student, and he trust me. But 173 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: it still is just that loss of control. So yeah, 174 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: you let him cry and we can get into it 175 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: more in terms of, you know, some of the other things. Interesting. Um, so, 176 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: where does this go into bullying in school? I know 177 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: that that word is like, Wow, I feel like it's 178 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: used a lot. I think it's terrible and horrifying. And 179 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: I haven't gotten to that place yet. But like the 180 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: first time my kid is bullied or is bullying, Oh 181 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: my god, what the hell would I do or will 182 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: I do when my son's bullying? Well, I don't think 183 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: your son is going to be a bully. Oh we 184 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: don't know. But but a bully is different than someone 185 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: who's being too aggressive, a boy who's being too aggressive 186 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: or two mean. And the thing is that we can't 187 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: raise boys or girls to be so sensitive. And I 188 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: think we're really veering in that direction, uh, in a 189 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: in a really scary way. Um, these days, a lot 190 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: of people write about that now, but we we can't 191 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: raise them to be too sensitive or to always need protection. Um. 192 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: I'll say something in a minute that may contradict that 193 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: a little bit, but but I think that's true. So 194 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: just like you have to, you know, tolerate your son's 195 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: being a little aggressive. That's going to be a part 196 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: of boyhood. And teachers aren't going to see it because 197 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: it happens in the less structure of times at school. 198 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: It happens on the playground, it happens in jim class, 199 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: are in lunch. You're not gonna necessarily here that he's 200 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: being mean or bullying unless someone tells you. Um, if 201 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: someone tells you that, I'll tell you right now. The reactions. 202 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. 203 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: And my husband's going to be like quick to the 204 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: like disproving them. He's going to be quick to like, 205 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: what what did he say? Well, I don't think he 206 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: said like you know what I mean. Like, my husband's 207 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: like very um and I love that about him, but 208 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: he will want to make sure that all the facts 209 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: are straight. You know, Well, that's good. He's what's your 210 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: son's name, Albi? Albi, so he's got Albie's back. Yes, 211 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: oh so that's great. But here's here's a really helpful 212 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: parenting tip. The parenting tip is not to talk. Holy oakes, 213 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: just listen. I have to shut up instead of my 214 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: husband and we're both talkers. Well yeah, you're your your actress, 215 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: so you're going to be talked to us, and your 216 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: son's gonna have to learn to keep up with that. 217 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: But but the thing is that that it's really important, 218 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,599 Speaker 1: even at a young age, to understand not just the 219 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: child's perspective. We think empathy is understanding the child's perspective, 220 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: but it's really important to understand how that perspective makes 221 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: sense to them, you know, not necessarily to us. And 222 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: once you get there with with a kid and you 223 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: listen and you ask questions, and also just be quiet, 224 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: because quiet lets other people have the space to talk, 225 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: even little ones. Um, you're gonna understand a little bit 226 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: more about about what's going on if you get the message, 227 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I'll be kicked, you know billion in 228 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: school today the other day I was talking. It was 229 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: it was kind of similar talking to fourteen year old kid, 230 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: who who's whose friend? Who? Someone who wanted to be 231 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: friends with him and asked him a sensitive question about 232 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: when he was going on to the next level of school. 233 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: Because this this young man because of some learning difficulties 234 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: that repeated a great early on. So he ghosted, he 235 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: ghoested the kid, and he got back through the older brother. 236 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: So the parents were wonderful, parents have done everything for 237 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: this kid. Um, but we're you know, and I too 238 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: were thinking, okay, so this is an opportunity to talk 239 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: about how he feels about his learning issues and how 240 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: to deal with that situation. So I started doing that, 241 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: went down that road. Um. I asked him, you know, 242 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: tell me what you think, and he said, well, I'll 243 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: tell you something. I don't like that kid. Most people 244 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: don't like the kids, so I don't want to be 245 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: friends with that kid. So if I wanted to be 246 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: friends with that kid, I would have never goes to him. 247 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: I would have told him what the deal is. But 248 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: it was easier for me because I don't want to 249 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: encourage the friendship. So I'm sure both perspectives are true, 250 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: but you know, that's his perspective. So I think that 251 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: for most parents whose kids aren't too aggressive and aren't 252 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: getting calls all the time, I mean, that's a whole 253 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: other issue. Right then it's it's important you can tell 254 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: you Adam not to be so defensive at first because 255 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: he wants to hear from Albi's perspective, Because then that 256 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: gives you a place to start talking to him about 257 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: what's an appropriate way to express yourself or to push 258 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: back or to stick up for yourself. So I think 259 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: that that's that's really crucial. I want to go back 260 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: and just talk about the other side of the bulling, 261 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: which is being bullied. And I want to go back 262 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: to because I said earlier, I was going to contradict 263 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: something I said, so I want to be true to 264 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: my promise. Um. So, so kids boys do need to 265 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: know how to handle themselves on the playground. And so 266 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: when I'm working with with kids, I often talk to 267 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: them about how they recover because sometimes it's just pushing 268 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: and shoving and name calling. And no one likes to 269 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: be called names. But if your boy, you have to 270 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: be able to laugh it off and call it get 271 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: another you know, another name. If you're too sensitive, then 272 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna get bullied. You get bullied more so, how 273 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: a kid recovers, it's really it's important to teach them 274 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: that even though you're hurting inside, if it's just normal 275 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: kind of you know, just kind of jostling in the 276 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: guys of fun, you have to be able to kind 277 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: of keep up with that because if you don't, you're 278 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: gonna get bullied more. And kids can be really mean. 279 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: You know, they don't have they don't have the some 280 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: of the social controls that we as adults like to 281 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: think we have. If you live in New York and 282 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: you drive, you know that or O L is much worse, 283 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, much worse. Yeah, you know, you have 284 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: to be able to talk to somebody. And this is 285 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: where it gets sticky, because I've worked with kids who 286 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: I work with them in two thousand, two thousand nineteen. 287 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: They come in and they say, yeah, I was bullied 288 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: last year, and I'm like, I saw you every day 289 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: every week last year, you know, once a week. Why 290 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: didn't you tell me? Because they're embarrassed, they're humiliated, and 291 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: then they don't want parents to get involved, the teacher 292 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: to get involved, because it makes it worse. But I 293 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: do think sometimes, especially when they're little, if it's a 294 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: repeated pattern, an adult has to get involved. Hopefully the 295 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: adult is sensitive and can deal with it because not 296 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: every not every educator is in terms of dealing with 297 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: it so that it doesn't have ramifications on the kid, 298 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: but into what's happened. And you know, I practice here 299 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: in New York and in New Jersey, and in New 300 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: Jersey they are bulling laws now a number of years. Um, 301 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: there's a whole procedure that teachers and administrators have to 302 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: go to a bulling is reported paperwork conversation. It really 303 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: backfires though, I feel like that's yeah, that seems not 304 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: because a kid being bullied probably wants and help, but 305 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: they also I don't want to shine too much attention 306 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: on it or yes, because it'll get worse and worse 307 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: and worse, right right, right, So you have to choose 308 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: who you're going to tell. But usually when you're at 309 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: that level, that young person has already has the attention 310 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: of the schools. Um. Wow. The other thing I tell 311 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: kids who are bullied is listen. I've had a few 312 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: who I'd like to say I kicked the kid when 313 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: no one's looking, but you know, I can't say that 314 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: but stand up and yell at them, make them embarrassed, 315 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: draw attention to what they're doing so, you know, you 316 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: can shut them down. And I feel like into bullying 317 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: is such a thing. I feel like you could stand 318 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: up today and say like you're bullying, Like you could 319 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: say that very loud, and people would look probably and 320 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: get attention for him. I had the other experience, which 321 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: doesn't it's not so flattering to me, but but it 322 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: really is, because this is a part of a normal 323 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: experience in seventh grade, when a lot of this happens. 324 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: There was a kid that everybody picked on and I 325 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: wasn't particularly nice to him. I wasn't I didn't beat 326 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: him up, I didn't, you know, but I wasn't nice 327 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: to him and he knew it. And we had our 328 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: lockers next to each other, so you know, I would 329 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: close his locker, turn his locker around every once in 330 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: a while. One day he can I get goose bumps 331 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: telling you. And this was a long time ago. I'm 332 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: a little older. He said to me. He said, Adam, 333 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: why do you do that? Why do you treat me 334 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: that way? You know, why do you pick on me? 335 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: And I said, you know what? And I believe his 336 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: name was Johnny said, I have no idea, and he 337 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: taught me this kid who everybody else picked on. But 338 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: he taught me such an important lesson of compassion when 339 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: I was that age, I never picked on him again. Um, 340 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know why. Yeah, he just he 341 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: just kind of asked it flat out. Tell me about consent? Consent? Yes, 342 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: do you talk a lot about this right now with 343 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: people and doing lectures about it, Like you must be 344 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: traveling the Try State area talking about the country and 345 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: the country because it's really on people's minds, and you know, consent. 346 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: So my take on consent is that you're not. Your 347 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: son is not too old for you to ask me 348 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: that question, because I think that what we need to 349 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: help There's a few things, but one is emotional intelligence. 350 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, but helping children understand from an 351 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: early age of value driven conversation about sex. Now, it 352 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: depends what your val use are, but the point is 353 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: to talk about sex with kids in the context of 354 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: a relationship, in the context of you know what the 355 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: meaning is, um, because that's what I think will help 356 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: them later on. You know, I remember when I was 357 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: I think I was in seventh grade two. My mother, 358 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's still amazed that she did this. We're 359 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: getting sex education. And again this was seventy to nineteen 360 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: seventy three. UM, and she said to me, Adam, I 361 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: want you to know whatever they tell you a school 362 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: about sex, they're not going to tell you one thing. 363 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: And I said, oh God, I don't want to have 364 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: this conversation with you. But what is it? And she 365 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: said sex is fun and sex is pleasurable and that 366 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: was like, that was great sex education. UM. So you know, 367 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: there's interesting things that studies that have happened. Uh, people 368 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: have looked at whether the just say no abstinence message 369 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: helps it actually causes higher team pregnancy. Not a good 370 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: message because it's not sex relationships much a complicated that's 371 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: so black or white. It's like ridiculous. It's not whether 372 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: you believe in it or not, it's just that that's 373 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: not a good message. Peggy Orgstein, who's written about girls 374 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: and I think she's coming out with a book about boys, 375 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: she had a piece in the New York Times about 376 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: about this issue, and she she looked at Holland and 377 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: there's a much lower incidence of teen pregnancy in Holland. 378 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: Kids have sexual relationships, but girls are much more able, 379 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: according to the research, to be able to say what 380 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: they do want to do, what they don't want to do. 381 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: And girls report, compared to girls in the United States, 382 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: that their first sexual encounter is within a relationship, a 383 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: loving relationship, much more so than here that is just 384 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: a hook up. The reason is because people are more 385 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: comfortable with sex in Holland, you know, and we can 386 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: have all sorts of stereotypes, but it isn't more liberal society. 387 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: But they talk to kids more about it. Teachers talk 388 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: to kids about it, parents talk to kids about it. 389 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: They do it from an early age. So my advice 390 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: is star talking about sex and get over your discomfort 391 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: talking about it, because you're the one who wants to 392 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: give the important messages. The concern is is the messages 393 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: that boys get. It's going back to what we're talking 394 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: about a little bit before, you know, which is be tough. Um. 395 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, don't show any emotions any time you enter 396 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: into intimacy with with another person. It's a contract. And 397 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: and kids are going to be having sex, you know, 398 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: so parents have to appreciate that they need to talk 399 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: about it. Um. And if your values are that you 400 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: should wait till marriage to have sex, that's okay. You 401 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: can include that in the message, but you're still talking 402 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: about when they get married and have sex because um, 403 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, it has to be a mutual relationship, um, 404 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: where both people are consenting and it's not just to 405 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: hook up, you know. And this is more getting into 406 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: talking to teens about it. Oh my god, I'm no. 407 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: I'm so scared. What is that? Even, like I can't 408 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: even imagine. But I do hope that my household is 409 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: one where we talk about that stuff. I mean, I 410 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: also want to respect his privacy, and you know, I 411 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: don't want to know everything if he doesn't want me 412 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: to know everything. But I also I really want there 413 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: to be an open conversation about what it is. And 414 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: when does that start to happen. I mean it's early, right, 415 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: I mean I was in nanny for ten years and 416 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I was nanny for a very long time, 417 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: and I remember around maybe five six seven, the boys 418 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: became obsessed with playing doctor with me, and every time 419 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: I would go like p in a public restroom, they 420 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 1: were trying to climb underneath the restroom door and they 421 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: kept asking me to see They kept saying, I want 422 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: to see your butt, I want to see your but 423 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: they wanted to see my vaginas when they were asking 424 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: to see and they went to the parents and I said, um, hey, 425 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: I just want to let you guys know that this 426 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: is like a constant conversation at this point, and the 427 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: kids are are being brought to tears that they have 428 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 1: not seen me naked, and I don't know what's happening. 429 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: And the mom was like, oh, it's because they've never 430 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: Like she she was very a very private mom, didn't 431 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: ever shower with her kids. Yeah, you know, um, her 432 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: son's I don't think i'd ever seen a girl's body parts, 433 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: to be honest, and I think they were really fucking curious. 434 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: But I just I mean, that's already not my house. 435 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean we're actors. My son has been like backstage 436 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: on Broadway and all the girls are like taking all 437 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: their clothes to make their quick changes. So like he's good, 438 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: but like, I do think that it's still a very 439 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: hard subject for people to talk about. You know, that's 440 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: a wonderful example. I appreciate you bringing that up. They're 441 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: just curious, right, That's not really about sex, that's about curiosity. 442 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: So it's an opportunity to to say to them, Listen, 443 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: there are certain things that are private that we don't 444 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: show other people. You don't show other people, you know, 445 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: your penis. Um. You don't ask to see someone else's 446 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: penis or vaginant unless they give you permission. I guess 447 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: maybe you don't say that to you know, younger kid, 448 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: although they do play doctor. It's very very innocent. You know, 449 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: we tend to be puritanical in this country about sex. 450 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's led to so many of 451 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: the issues and problems. Well, that and and if you 452 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: want to get into, you know, talking about emotional intelligence. 453 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: You know, let's go back to what I said initially. 454 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: The opposite of masculinity is in femininity. It's authenticity. And 455 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: I say this to teenagers and young men all the time. Um. 456 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: My definition of being secure as a man is being 457 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: able to at times be vulnerable enough to be able 458 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: to say to a young woman, is it okay if 459 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: I do this? Um, it's being secure enough that when 460 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: you are feeling emotional, and when you do have things 461 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: you need to talk about, you are able to talk 462 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: to people that you trust, not to everybody, but to 463 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: people that you trust. And if you're in a situation 464 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: where you need to cry and with someone that you 465 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: feel like you cry to. It's not a threat to 466 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: your masculinity because you wanted to talk about shame. This 467 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: is what happens because of the boy code, because of 468 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: how we're brought up. Any time a man feels vulnerable 469 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: or feels exposed, it leads to shame, and it's shame 470 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,479 Speaker 1: is an incredibly powerful emotion. And to me, every emotion 471 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: is okay, but shame is really destructive. It's hard for 472 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: me to help someone who's a shame because I don't 473 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: want to talk about the issues, and shame says not 474 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: I did something wrong, but I am wrong. Right, that's 475 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: Brendan Brown. Yeah, I was just going to bring her up. Yeah, 476 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: she's amazing, Um, she's her work has been so helpful. 477 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: But I quote that line all the time because you 478 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: can feel wrong. Guilt is okay, but there is nothing 479 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: wrong with being vulnerable. And so when when men and 480 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: boys feel that sense of vulnerability, they shut down and 481 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: then it prevents them from asking for support, you know. 482 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: And so that's that's part of why the suicide rate 483 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: for boys is higher than girls. It's part of why 484 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: UM suicide is the second leading cause of death after 485 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: unintentional accidents for boys. For boys, Yeah, fifteen to thirty four. 486 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: Now that's partly because they don't die have heart attacks. 487 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's not just I don't want to make 488 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: it exaggerated, but but when I was doing some talks 489 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: out in Colorado, was presenting with a woman from Colorado, 490 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: and she said, no, in Colorado, it's the number one 491 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 1: cause of you know, of deaths. Um. Wow, So do 492 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: you think today's birds and the bees talk that that's 493 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: not just one talk? Like one big ass talk to me, 494 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: seems far more pressure than like lots of opportunities and 495 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: small talks along the way. Listen, we we we all 496 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: know you're a great actress. I can tell by the 497 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: questions you're asking that you're a great parent too, because 498 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: you know saying you know, these are many conversations you 499 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: have over time. Um, is really true. You know, boys 500 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: and girls start kissing, so when they're in fourth grade 501 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: or third grade, you know, I kissed a girl. I 502 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: mean it's like a little kiss, and so then I 503 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: did that in third or fourth grade. There you go. 504 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: But it's just a comment. It's like, oh, that's really nice. 505 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: When you kiss somebody. You have really strong feelings for them, 506 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, and as long as the person wants to 507 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: kiss you back, um, that's okay. You know. If they don't, though, 508 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: you have to respect them. But you bring up another 509 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: really interesting point that reminds me of a young man 510 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: I work with who could have probably had any girl 511 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: he wanted, and I would like to say New York City. 512 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: He was that good looking and charismatic. He was really 513 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: into the whole New York City independent school thing. Um, 514 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: So I was kind of worried about that. I said, 515 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, we gotta talk about this. We gotta talk 516 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: about consent. And he said, he said, Dr Price, My 517 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: mother has been very clear with me about how to 518 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: treat women and how to respect them. And you know 519 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: that's not that's not a mindy I would ever trespass. 520 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: So I think that's that's important for moms to be strong, 521 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: like you said about that. It's also important on the 522 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: other side, though, to tell boys to protect themselves right. 523 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: Don't be in a room alone with the girl, you know. Um, 524 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, have you seen it go that way? Well, 525 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: of course it goes both ways. Um, there's a there's 526 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: often something that happens, you know, Um, But you know, 527 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: make sure that you know, you like seven minutes it 528 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: heavens like not a great idea. Totally played that as well, 529 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: but I to, to be honest, I was a big 530 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: fan of a spin the bottle situation because I was 531 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: comfortable with like a peck. But the seven minutes in Heaven, 532 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: like I went in there like twice and I didn't 533 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: do anything. I mean, I just like hid in like 534 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: racks of turtlenecks. Like I just was like completely horrified 535 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: and waiting for the seven minutes. And I was like, hey, 536 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: how are you, like, you know, like, can we talk 537 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: about oral sex? Because this is when I'm in pet peeves. 538 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: It amazes me. But it's still pretty common for girls 539 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: to give boys oral sex and um, when they don't 540 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: necessarily want to, but they feel the pressure to do so. 541 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: So when I'm working with a girl or a boy 542 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: and I hear about this happening, I say to the girl, 543 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: did he give you oral sex? No? And then I 544 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: say why not? You know you're supposed to experience pleasure also, 545 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: so that's that's a part of the message of consent. 546 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: And I say to the boy too, and he's like no, 547 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, then don't let her go down 548 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: there because that's not fair, you know. Um. So the 549 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: message of consent is um that it should be. This 550 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: is what boys need to hear. Your job is to 551 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: make it pleasurable for the girl, right. And so when 552 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: boys get get this idea that it's not about that, 553 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: it's about how many girls I can have sex with, 554 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: her I can hug up with and what's my number? 555 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: And that you know, that's all about that kind of 556 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: macho masculinity that's really not what it's a out. Um. 557 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: And so you know, if you're hooking up and this 558 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: is a different kind of conversation with the kidder. When 559 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: you hook up, you know you're you're you're there to 560 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: make sure that she's comfortable and that she has has 561 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: a good time. And so you know what I'd like 562 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: to do is interview teenagers and pick their brains and 563 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: see what they're thinking about. Yeah, you're so good at 564 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: using the term hook up, Like I feel like I 565 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: haven't said that in fifteen years. Oh it's so funny 566 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: because my friends said, you want to hook up for 567 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: lunch and I'm like, yeah, I want to talk to 568 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: you about your book, which is incredible. Um, thank you again, 569 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: you guys. It's called He's not lazy, empowering your son 570 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: to believe in himself, which again, I have a two 571 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: year old, but I'm afraid of I don't do well 572 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: with laziness at all. Like I am sure you can tell, 573 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: I can tell. Yeah, I know. You don't get to 574 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: be where you are with by being lazy and not 575 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: at all. So tell me a little bit about your book. 576 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: So this is something that I love to talk about, obviously, 577 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: But when I wrote the book, there wasn't a lot 578 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: of research on adolescents and motivation, but there was a 579 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: lot of adults. And the key ingredient is just common sense. 580 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: It's autonomy. Right, if you have the autonomy to make 581 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: a decision about what you're doing, then you're going to 582 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: be much more motivated to do it. Now, there's two 583 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: problems with that. The first problem is that what we 584 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: have forgotten now is that autonomy comes with accountability. So 585 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: if you make a choice, you know, to stay up 586 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: at a sleepover, you know, till two in the morning 587 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: or three in the morning, which is lots of fun, 588 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, you're still accountable to go to Sunday school 589 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: or soccer practice next morning. Um, and so what happens 590 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: is that we rescue kids. And it's it's parents obviously, 591 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's the whole overparenting hell or coopter parenting phenomena. 592 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: But um, schools do it too. Um. So the more 593 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: that we like kids off the hook, we are robbing 594 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: them of the opportunity to learn earn from their mistakes. 595 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: And that's what autonomy is about, right, It's about I 596 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: did this, I made a choice, it worked out. I'll 597 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: do it again. It didn't work out, maybe a couple 598 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: of times, and I'll stop doing it. Right. So that's 599 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: such an important lesson, but it's also the critical factor 600 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: in in in helping kids to be motivated. What if 601 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: your kid just doesn't like school? So so that's the 602 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: second thing, um, and then after this can ask you 603 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: a question, Oh please open book. Um. The second thing 604 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: is that in school you don't have a lot of choice, right, 605 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: You're you have to do what you have to do, 606 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: and it can be really boring. And not every kid 607 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: is able to delay gratification, to be able to see 608 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: that what they do now is going to pay off 609 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: later and that they can wait. You know, there's a 610 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: famous marshmallow, you know, study that was done years ago. 611 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: Um so so psychologist. I think he was at Stanford. 612 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: He put it three or four year old in a 613 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: room with two marshmallows and a videotaping videotaping and these 614 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: were all his kids peers, and he said to them, 615 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: you can eat that marshmallow now, but if you wait 616 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: till I come back, you can have too. And you 617 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: see these kids, that's what's so funny. They'd be on 618 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: when when little girl went under the table, they would 619 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: lick the marshmallow and then they would put it down. 620 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: He foiled these kids. And the kids that waited did 621 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: better in college. You know, they went to better college 622 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: is more competitive colleges. It's amazing. This was ten years ago. 623 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god. But gratifications. So some kids just can't 624 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: do that. The thing I tell parents, though, and what 625 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: I really I really want to be reassuring, and so 626 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: what I tell parents is that if that's your son, 627 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah, And you've got to learn a different way, yeah, 628 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: or you're gonna you're you're gonna grow up. You know, 629 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: there are there's a specific part of the brain that 630 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mature until sometimes until six and that's the prefrontal 631 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: cortex where we planning, uh, impulse control executive function. That's 632 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: my brother. Yeah, Like I knew I wanted to be 633 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: an actor from the dam. It was too It was 634 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: very easy for me to have like a passion and 635 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: a line in a drive. But like my brother was 636 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: like someone who was like jack of all trades. Like 637 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: he was good at a lot of stuff, but he 638 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: wasn't like particularly obsessed with anyone thing. He was good 639 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: at sports, he played trumpet, like he was a great kid, 640 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: but like he went to school, the school that my 641 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: mom thought he should go to, and you know, and 642 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: then he went there, didn't know what's major in and 643 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: was failing out because he became president of the fraternity. 644 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: And at like twenties six, he like got his ship 645 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: together and he's like the best, Like you know what 646 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, The whole thing turned around. But there were 647 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: years where we were completely horrified. Scientists would tell you 648 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: that that's because of what happened in his brain. Yeah, 649 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: it's really interesting. So I'm not I'm not a lazy, 650 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: fair parent. I don't believe that that we should just 651 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: like kids, give him a shovel and let them take 652 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: themselves into all they can't get out of um. That's 653 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: why I talked about in the book, I have a program, 654 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: But the program is really about not micromanaging them and 655 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: giving them some space to the sweet spot. Yeah, and 656 00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: it's it's hard for a lot of parents to fag 657 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: you're out. But it's also about you know, duct tape parenting. 658 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: And and then it's about not freaking out. And listen 659 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: where I practice. You know here in New York, and 660 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: you know the very competitive, affluent families. So when I 661 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: say to them, it's your sons. You can ask your 662 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: son to get a B, but it's their choice to 663 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: get an A. No, it's not. It's a nice choice, 664 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: but it is. That's my philosophy. But the messages don't worry, 665 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, said limits um, and and be patient and 666 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: especially if they have something that they're passionate about I'm 667 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: afraid of. I want to raise someone who is comfortable 668 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: in his masculine, who is comfortable in his authenticity. Thank you, 669 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: dr at the price. My second fear is the video 670 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: game child. I am horrified. I was the last generation 671 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: to be raised without the iPhone. I didn't have a car, 672 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: have a phone in college. So this is like um 673 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: crazy to me that that kids are literally in front 674 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: of screens all day long. But video games, video games 675 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: can be very very positive. Everything has changed. So when 676 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: they're in their basement playing a video game, they're playing 677 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: with their friends, right And for the kid that has 678 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: troublemaking friends, sometimes that's their social life, but they're more 679 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: comfortable there. And then most of the kids graduate to 680 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: playing video games in the same living room and then 681 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: they have a social life. So, um, so it's not 682 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: always bad. There are there are kids who only play 683 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: video games. That's a whole other istion because those kids, 684 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: to me, have underlying Yeah. But so you are very motivated, 685 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: right you. You made it in a way that many 686 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: people want to a few people do. So what's your secret? 687 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: What kept you going? You know through all the babysitting jobs. 688 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm a very very hard worker. I always have been. 689 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: Like I was never a natural A plus student, but 690 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: I was an A plus student because I work really 691 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: hard and I knew I think what struck so hard 692 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: to me in this episode was girls smarts of how 693 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: to connect and play on the playground. What was it 694 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: that you said about like seventh grade girls like that? 695 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: Chief status by who they know yes, And I think 696 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: I've been very good at connecting people. So I think 697 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: it's a combo of like, I'm a hard worker but 698 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: also I love people, So I would be the kid. 699 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: Even though I was getting a sea in physics, I 700 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: knew that if I went to office hours every single 701 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: day and got that teacher on my side, that that 702 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: teacher would maybe feel bad for me and give me. 703 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: And I don't think I was doing it in any 704 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: way shape from a manipulative way at all. I think 705 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: I just was like, like, I need help, and I 706 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: my strong suit is connection to you understood something that 707 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: politics is having a relationship with someone who's in power 708 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: over you. And you understood that if you develop a 709 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: relationship with that teacher, uh, it will benefit your Yeah, 710 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: acting jobs didn't come easy. I had to waitress and 711 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: bartend and personally assistant cater and nanny and babysit and 712 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: all those things. Right. I had a part time job 713 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: since I was sixteen. Um, my parents really didn't push chores. 714 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: But I was never grounded or anything. I it was 715 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: more about disappointment, you know. Um, But my parents were 716 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: the parent that would like send me to their my room. Um, 717 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: if I did something to think about what I had done, 718 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: and then my dad would end up sitting on the 719 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: end of my bed just sobbing. Well, we talked about 720 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: my dad's very emotionally available. UM. We call them heart 721 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: darts in our family. Both my brother and my dad 722 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: cried way easier than the girls do. Wow. Well, that's wonderful. 723 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: You can you can teach me. Thank you. We're wrapping up, 724 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: if it's okay with you. I want to talk to 725 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: you about your daughter, UM, who passed away three or 726 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: four years ago. And I want to talk to because 727 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: I think we would be missing him. Wonderful opportunity in 728 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: such a sad thing of of what happened in your life, 729 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: and talk to us about how that ties in with 730 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 1: the book and the working. Yeah. I had a transgender 731 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: daughter my wife and I UM named Sam. Sam was 732 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: born a boy, but came out as transgender her sophomore 733 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: year of college. UM and uh. A year later, she 734 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: took her life on her birthday. UM and yeah, I know. 735 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: It was a terrible tragedy. And up until that point 736 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: she was, you know, just like a self cleaning oven 737 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: type kid. You know, she was really easy to to 738 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: deal with and and every as everybody's best friend. But 739 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: it really it shook her, you know, in a way 740 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: that we just didn't anticipate or realize. And and we 741 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: knew she was depressed. Um, we knew she was struggling. 742 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: It was like she pulled out of college. Were not 743 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: pulled her out of college. Um, But but she ended 744 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: up taking her life. And so my wife said, I 745 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: want to start a foundation for for trans youth and 746 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: help them in some way. And so we started a 747 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: foundation called the Sam and Divora Foundation for Trans Youth 748 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: because we thought that Sam was going to take Divora 749 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: had she continued to UH to transition. And and you know, 750 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: the thing is that the suicide attempt rate for transgender 751 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: kids is forty one. And as I've done this work, 752 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: and as every trans person I've met, including people in Hollywood, 753 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: you know, have said to me, um, I've been there. UM. 754 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: So we really wanted to try to create a safe 755 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: space UM for trans kids. So we created this foundation. 756 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: We have retreats UM for trans teenagers in eastern part 757 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: of the United States and Berkshire Mountains. And then we 758 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: have developed a community of counselors UM who are trans 759 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: agender nine conforming and they've become their own family. So 760 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,959 Speaker 1: we have a retreat for them. We're doing an event 761 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia in the in the spring for eighteen to 762 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: twenty one year olds because when we go to the 763 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: Mazzoni trans Health Conference or things like that every year, UM, 764 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: we're always asked by that age group, and we're kind 765 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: of brainstorming because we want to reach many more kids, um, 766 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: you know, across the country, so we're trying to figure 767 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: out how to do that. UM. But yeah, so that's 768 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: been very meaningful work for my wife and I. It's 769 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: it's sustained us, but it's also these kids are just 770 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, they feel so marginalized, and so to have 771 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: a retreat and then have a kid write you at 772 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: all and say, you know, this was the best weekend 773 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: of my life. It was the first time I was 774 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: able to feel myself, be myself, be around people you know, 775 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: like me. It was just it's really But the foundation's 776 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: website is Sam and Devora dot org. Great Sam and 777 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: Devora dot Org. UM, such important work you're doing on 778 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: so many levels. I really we are lucky that you 779 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: are here, like making waves and changing and helping and 780 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: supporting people. UM. In Today's Day and age Um. Thank 781 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: you so much, Dr Adam Price for being on Katie's Crib. 782 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: Thank you it was so much fun. Thank you all 783 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: for tuning into Katie's Crib and for your beautiful messages 784 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: and reviews. I absolutely love connecting with you and hearing 785 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: your stories and questions. So email me at Katie's Crib 786 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 1: at Shonda land dot com. We may just feature you 787 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: on an episode, so hit me up. Thanks, guys. Katie's 788 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: Crib is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership 789 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda Land Audio, 790 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 791 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite ships. You've never known until 792 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: you try, Until me need Ride than