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Speaker 1: The podcast playground. I'm Buzz Night, the host of the

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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk podcast Music History on Foot. Follow us

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Today we have an incredible treat an artist who is

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Speaker 1: one of the fastest rising figures in the music business

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Speaker 1: and particularly in the country music business. His music does

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Speaker 1: span rap, rock, He's broken country number one hits like

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Speaker 1: Son of a Sinner, even Angels Cry. The song called

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Speaker 1: save Me which I heard in John Loba, the president

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Speaker 1: of BMG's office, as we were recording a Taking a

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Speaker 1: Walk episode with him, and I was completely blown away

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Speaker 1: by that song and I still am to this day.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome to Taking a Walk. Jelly Roll. Well, Jelly Roll,

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Speaker 1: it's so great to have you on Taking a Walk here.

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Speaker 1: You started twenty twenty two playing eight hundred seats I

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Speaker 1: believe it was in Buffalo, New York, and you ended

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Speaker 1: up playing twenty thousand seat sellout at your hometown in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: What was the first experience like and what was the

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Speaker 1: Nashville experience like as well? It was, you know, the

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Speaker 1: first experience. The funny part of that story I don't

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Speaker 1: get to tell nobody is because I haven't got the

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Speaker 1: detail it is. I actually missed the Buffalo show. I

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Speaker 1: had a flight get canceled because of a snowstorm in Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: and I ended up having to just skip Buffalo and

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Speaker 1: go to Boston the next day, which was the Palladium

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Speaker 1: in Woosta, Massachusetts. So it was just funny that my

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Speaker 1: first booking of the year was in a club, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then of course even the second show you've probably

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Speaker 1: been to the Palladium, I know, came from the Boston market,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's what two thousand cap club or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, and to end it in a completely sold

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Speaker 1: out arena at home was just a testament of the year.

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Speaker 1: I was having to tell John lob but the president

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Speaker 1: of our Broken Bow Records and the label that signed me,

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Speaker 1: the guy that gave me my chance. And of course

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Speaker 1: there were some mishaps with all of the partners and

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Speaker 1: media and I were shooting a documentary and filming this

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Speaker 1: big show, you know, and Loba wasn't upset, but he

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Speaker 1: was like, man, it was just really hard to find you.

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Speaker 1: That afternoon, I said, you got to remember this is

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Speaker 1: this is so new to us, you know. I was like,

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Speaker 1: we didn't we had to grow into the arenas in

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Speaker 1: like ten months flat. It was hard. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: a pig we went from. I went from I went

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Speaker 1: into the pandemic in a two sprinter van tour right,

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Speaker 1: and that was a luxury by then, because I took

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Speaker 1: an extra sprinter van for me and the family, and

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Speaker 1: I sent the band and the other sprinter. So I

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Speaker 1: come out of the pandemic straight into a two bus

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Speaker 1: tour and ended in a six bus seven truck tour.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And all these dudes around

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Speaker 1: you are just trying to tell you what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and you're so confused. Was trying to trust them, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm meaning. You're just like, are you sure

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Speaker 1: this is the right? Thisison to make? The whole other

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Speaker 1: bus of people, they was like, somebody's got to run

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Speaker 1: the lights. I was like, God, why are we bringing lights?

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Speaker 1: Because you're playing a twelve thousand cap club an arena

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Speaker 1: in Michigan at night. You got to have real production.

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Speaker 1: I never took production out until we were doing it

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Speaker 1: at by the small arena level. How does John Logo

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Speaker 1: make it look so easy? As my question, Oh listen,

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Speaker 1: Loba acts like nothing. He never he only seems excited,

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Speaker 1: he never seems stressed. He's always forward to think. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he goes home and just melts into

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Speaker 1: a pall, a ball of putty or something. But he's

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Speaker 1: just unbelievable. Man. He did this podcast, and I have

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Speaker 1: to tell you, his vision and his leadership come shining

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Speaker 1: through in that episode. Jelly No, I got to check

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Speaker 1: it out because he's I see it every time I

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Speaker 1: talk to him. I'm so blessed to have a label

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Speaker 1: partner that I talked to multiple times a week. I

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Speaker 1: mean him, Carson, Adrian Michaels, the entire radio team over there.

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Speaker 1: I mean I talk to these people obsessively. I mean

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Speaker 1: I probably talked to somebody in that office every day twice.

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Speaker 1: You know, you share some similar life paths as the

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Speaker 1: great Johnny Cash, prison time, drug challenges, personal trials. What

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Speaker 1: does his music mean to you, oh man? Johnny was

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Speaker 1: one of the the whole outlaw movement, not limited to Johnny,

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Speaker 1: but that whole era was still probably my favorite era

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Speaker 1: in American music history. And I say American music history,

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Speaker 1: not just country music history. Because Nashville was on fire.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bob Dylon came down here and wrote, you

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Speaker 1: know what was the Nashville Skyline record came down here

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Speaker 1: into the Johnny Cash Show. I mean, Johnny Cash had

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Speaker 1: transcended country music at a time into a whole different

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Speaker 1: culture and put a whole different look, you know. And

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Speaker 1: he taught me a lot no pun intended about how

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Speaker 1: to walk the line, because Johnny knew how to walk

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Speaker 1: that line. And I don't even mean just in his relationship.

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Speaker 1: I meant in the business, right, you know, he stood

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Speaker 1: by his outlawedness. He stood a man of character, a

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Speaker 1: man of integrity, morals, what he believed. He wasn't afraid

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Speaker 1: to tell you to fuck off, right, but equally did

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Speaker 1: fifty two shows of the Johnny Cash Show, almost a

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Speaker 1: syndicated television show, big hit, the infamous documentary you've probably

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Speaker 1: seen about him, A Richard Nixon, Tricky Dick, and the

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Speaker 1: Man in Black. I mean, he had some wild political

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Speaker 1: shit happened in the background too, just quiet as captain,

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Speaker 1: you know. And Johnny Cash was the ultimate to me

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Speaker 1: of that era, the guy that I aspired to be.

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Speaker 1: Me and my buddy Ryan Upchurch struggled Jennings and Adam Calhoun.

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Speaker 1: We're talking reason and Ryan of Church is a multi

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Speaker 1: genre artist as well, but does it independently and has

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Speaker 1: no aspiration to partner with the label. I am anti

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Speaker 1: the system right as far as like the establishment, meaning,

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Speaker 1: I think artists should own art, and I'm pressing that

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Speaker 1: big in these rooms is that artists should own art.

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Speaker 1: There's no reason these artist shouldn't own a piece of

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Speaker 1: their masters, right. It's just like, I'm never playing ball

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Speaker 1: with those guys. And I said, well, that's what makes

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Speaker 1: this so cool about all four of us is because

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Speaker 1: that was Johnny Whalon, Willie, Chris Jesse. Right, if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, Johnny played the game, Johnny Cash show,

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Speaker 1: big late night TV appearances, stood next to president you know,

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Speaker 1: man Wayling Jennis didn't give a shit about none of that. Dude.

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Speaker 1: He showed up every now and then to a late

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Speaker 1: night TV show. And that's about it, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's like, so it's really cool to see

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Speaker 1: that even in this generation, that outlaw blossoms different ways

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Speaker 1: just like it did back then. You know, I love

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Speaker 1: your appreciation for the historical figures and the music that's

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Speaker 1: been around you. Yeah, well it's bound to repeat itself.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to check and see where I

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Speaker 1: might fit into the future landscape. And I started getting

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Speaker 1: obsessed with these eras, and I mimicked my entire songwriting

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Speaker 1: style from that nineteen sixty seven to seventy six era,

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Speaker 1: everything from Segur to Dylan to Cash to Willie to

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Speaker 1: Whalan write that whole, James Taylor, Jim Crochey, these are

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Speaker 1: the guys that made me want to write songs. John Prine,

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Speaker 1: I would imagine, zah absolutely. Do you remember the first

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Speaker 1: time that you rapped something? Oh? Absolutely, dude. I went downstairs.

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Speaker 1: So my mother struggled with like mental health and addiction stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: and she'd come to the kitchen and the whole house

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Speaker 1: would come we to music. And when I realized that

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Speaker 1: music was affecting her addiction, I was like, Oh, this

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Speaker 1: makes mom happy, I should go write music, right, So

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Speaker 1: I went upstairs and I wrote a rap because hip

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Speaker 1: hop was super influential in our culture, and I was

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Speaker 1: I went downstairs with my little sheet of paper, and

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Speaker 1: she had all of her friends at the kitchen table.

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Speaker 1: I called them the Golden Girls, like six or seven, mother,

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Speaker 1: and they'd all come to the kitchen table together. They

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Speaker 1: just chained smoked cigarettes. And I came down. She turned

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Speaker 1: the record off and said what you got? I said,

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Speaker 1: listen to this, And I held my little sheet of

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Speaker 1: paper up and I was shaking the whole time, and

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Speaker 1: I rapped her a little rap. And I was probably

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Speaker 1: twelve years old. Eleven years old. Do you remember what

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Speaker 1: he rapped you too? I don't remember anything. It was

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Speaker 1: just like, you know, I don't like I just remember

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Speaker 1: that feeling of everybody cheering me on and telling me

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Speaker 1: to go write another one. In hindsight, they were just

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Speaker 1: trying to get rid of me. That's how we do kids. Yeah, Greg,

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Speaker 1: go write another one of those. You know, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you another magic. I went real quick, if you got time,

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Speaker 1: I walked into middle school. I went to this school

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Speaker 1: called Cameron Middle School on Murfsburg Road. It was across

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Speaker 1: the street from the JC Napier Project homes, and so,

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Speaker 1: needless to say, I was one of seven white kids

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Speaker 1: at the whole school, right, And I would walk every

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Speaker 1: day by the breakfast because you know that you get

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Speaker 1: free breakfast at school, and they would always be sitting

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Speaker 1: outside of the lunch room pounding on the table and rapping.

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Speaker 1: So I'd say, maybe my seventh grade year or sixth

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Speaker 1: grade year, I finally got the courage to go over

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Speaker 1: and see if I could fit in the mix, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I walked in and they would freestyle, you know,

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Speaker 1: about teachers and like stuff that was happening in middle school,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I came in and I think I

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Speaker 1: made a joke about running from a principal and him

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Speaker 1: catching me because I was fat, because I was a

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Speaker 1: big kid too, and whatever the line was. I just

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Speaker 1: remember watching one hundred black kids in the hallway lose

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Speaker 1: their shit, just like because this is like you have.

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Speaker 1: Eminem wasn't out yet, right, nobody really connected with the

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Speaker 1: beastie boys. They had been out, but it wasn't in

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Speaker 1: a culture that I knew who the beast boys were.

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Speaker 1: But these kids didn't like Vanilla Ice was you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, this wasn't even really a thing thing yet.

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Speaker 1: So it's like this was an unheard thing, Like why

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Speaker 1: is there a white kid in here rapping and he's

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Speaker 1: good at it? So it was really really I remember

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Speaker 1: that being the two times I caught the bug. What

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Speaker 1: was it like working with Eminem Nothing short of unreal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's the goat anything connected with him is

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Speaker 1: just I think he's the greatest rapper ever. I think

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Speaker 1: he will go down as the greatest rapper ever. You

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Speaker 1: have this unbelievable lack of being categorized in one genre.

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Speaker 1: You've got rapped, you've got rock, you've got country, you've

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Speaker 1: got spiritual. Damn you're even like a motivational speaker in

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Speaker 1: your own way. How does that make you feel that

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Speaker 1: you defy categorization? Lifelong dream? I feel like my whole

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Speaker 1: life I just wanted to defy categories, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to. I feel like a lot of us

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Speaker 1: live in that space. We were just so taught that

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Speaker 1: we have to fit into a certain box for identity,

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Speaker 1: identity purposes, you know, because when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't come to school on Monday with a Shanaia

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Speaker 1: Twain shirt and come back to school Friday with it

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Speaker 1: with a Snoop Dogg shirt. Right. You were either a

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Speaker 1: country person, you were a rock person, you were a

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Speaker 1: rap person. You were identified in these these little boxes.

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Speaker 1: And I just remember thinking, then, well, man, that's not

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Speaker 1: that can't that's not right because I like Offspring and

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Speaker 1: Snoop Dogg, you know, I like Johnny Cash and I

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Speaker 1: like Jim Crochey, you know, why can't I you know,

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Speaker 1: And what has happened through the era of streaming is

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Speaker 1: now we see that more than ever, right, And so

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Speaker 1: me blending the genres is just me kind of doing

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Speaker 1: what I feel passionate about. But my daughter's an example

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Speaker 1: of I listened to her cleaning her room yesterday. Every

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Speaker 1: time she cleans her room, she turns on the music

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Speaker 1: to make sure the whole house can hear it. And

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Speaker 1: that's maybe our punishment for punishing her to make her

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Speaker 1: clean her room. And she blars everything from Ariana Grande

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Speaker 1: to Cardi B. You know what I mean. It's like

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Speaker 1: the fact that my kid knows the new Chris Young song,

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Speaker 1: and she also knows the new NBA Young Boy song.

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Speaker 1: That's not weird to anybody in her school, you know,

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Speaker 1: and my generation that would have been fucking weird, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Jelly, If you in the prison system,

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Speaker 1: what would you do well? If I ran the prison system,

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Speaker 1: I would attempt to bring more programming, rehabilitation and trade

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Speaker 1: work skills there, and I would try to create systems

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Speaker 1: to offer housings in different areas. Right because a lot

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Speaker 1: of the problem that happens, especially in the juvenile cases,

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Speaker 1: because I'm super passionate about the juveniles because I was

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Speaker 1: a juvenile of fender that got chars on an adult.

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Speaker 1: You take a fifteen year old kid that's in a

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Speaker 1: broken home with a family that does drugs and a

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Speaker 1: cousin that lives there that sells drugs, and you put

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Speaker 1: them in juvenile and then you send them right back

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Speaker 1: to that house and wonder how that kid triggered back

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Speaker 1: into trouble, you know. I think that I would focus

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Speaker 1: on offering opportunities for inmates to get out of prison

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Speaker 1: and move to halfway houses in different states with trade

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Speaker 1: work available there. You know, are different cities, you know.

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Speaker 1: Take the Chattanooga guys and move them to Humbolt, Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: And take the Memphis guys and move them to Chattanooga,

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Speaker 1: you know, and just try to create culture and structure

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Speaker 1: because you can't continue, I know, troubles everywhere, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: you new playgrounds, new playmates, you know, And I think

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Speaker 1: that I would just focus on that, focus on the

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Speaker 1: rehabilitation of it. It's I look back at my time

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Speaker 1: in jail and all the time I did, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't learn a single skill in there, right Like I

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Speaker 1: didn't learn a single skill like you were just They

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Speaker 1: just make smarter criminals. You put two hundred criminals in

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Speaker 1: a room together and don't give them anything to go

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Speaker 1: look forward to. They're not gonna do nothing but gamble, fight,

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Speaker 1: and teach each other criminal ways. That's it. That's all

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Speaker 1: that happens in jail. They gamble, they fight, and they

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Speaker 1: teach each other better ways to be criminals. My favorite

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Speaker 1: thing about the George Younges story, I'm sure you've seen

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Speaker 1: the movie Blow, is when he says, I went in

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Speaker 1: with a bachelor's degree in weed and came out with

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Speaker 1: a PhD In cocaine, And that is so true. You

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Speaker 1: know how many guys I've seen go to jail, small

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Speaker 1: drug dealers and meet a big drug dealer in jail,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're not focused on rehab. Now, Luckily,

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Speaker 1: here in Nashville, Sheriff Hall is really open to the

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Speaker 1: idea of programming, so I've been talking to him a lot.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna start making changes on that, hopefully on

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Speaker 1: a national level, but we're gonna start where it matters

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Speaker 1: most right here. And when you did the sellout at

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Speaker 1: the arena, you put your money where your mouth is

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Speaker 1: to begin a project there. Can you talk about that, yes,

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Speaker 1: sir not. We started putting together studios inside of the

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Speaker 1: Juvenile Downtown, the Impact Youth outreach that we partnered with.

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Speaker 1: We hired more staff for full time care for people

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Speaker 1: that come out of juvenile so they'll go straight to

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Speaker 1: this program. We're getting corridorated by the judges. Let me

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Speaker 1: tell you the most beautiful thing about this. And we're

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Speaker 1: building studios outside for kids when they come home, music

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Speaker 1: programs inside. The next thing we're going to try to

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Speaker 1: bring in there is another trade work, whether we partner

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Speaker 1: with leaves, heating and air and try to bring h

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Speaker 1: VAC in or something just to teach kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: more trade work. But this is just scratching the surface.

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Speaker 1: I have big dreams. I want to open halfway houses

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Speaker 1: around town and I want to really make a difference

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to this city. I want to

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things I want to be remembered for,

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Speaker 1: is you know, I want to be remembered for feeding

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Speaker 1: the homeless and visiting jails. Do you have a documentary

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Speaker 1: in the works. We do, We do have a documentary

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Speaker 1: to work. I don't know how much I'm allowed to

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Speaker 1: talk about it, but we do. We Hulu filmed me,

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Speaker 1: ABC News filmed me for I'd say sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. I mean, they spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with me, and it should be coming out sometime

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Speaker 1: right here before the Midsummer I'm really excited and nervous.

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Speaker 1: Did you let a camera crew into your personal life

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Speaker 1: for like four or five hundred hours? You know they've

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Speaker 1: probably caught some wild shit. Do you still get performance

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Speaker 1: nerves every time? Oh? Unbelievably I was. I played the

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Speaker 1: Leslie Jordan tribute at the Grand Old Ibbrary recently and

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Speaker 1: I could I was shaken on stage. You know, you

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Speaker 1: could just see my hand shaken the microphone you could

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Speaker 1: see shaken a little bit. Yeah. And the day I

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Speaker 1: quit getting those nerves, I'll quit torn. I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you, as we close, as somebody who has felt

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Speaker 1: the deep connection with you, and like others felt that connection,

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you, how do you balance work

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Speaker 1: and life to the betterment of you know, your health

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Speaker 1: and well being. I am learning that now because I

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Speaker 1: have spent so much time focused on building the music

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Speaker 1: side of the career that at times I do get

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Speaker 1: lost on the family side, which is always the most

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Speaker 1: important side. So this going into this year specifically, I

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Speaker 1: found a better balance. You know what I've gotten finally

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Speaker 1: bold enough to say to help with that was no. No.

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Speaker 1: It's a crazy word, and it's hard to say when

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Speaker 1: you're a kid from antioct that never had anything. You

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Speaker 1: just say yes because you know what I'm saying, because

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Speaker 1: you've never had anything. And then you say yes to

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Speaker 1: so much you find out that you you know, I

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Speaker 1: haven't been home for a daughter's birthday in six seven years,

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Speaker 1: and it just breaks my heart, you know. So it's

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Speaker 1: things that I'm going to try to do better moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for saying yes to being on taking a

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Speaker 1: walk on so no, these are the easy ones, the

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Speaker 1: nose or whenever they get you to do a one

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Speaker 1: off in Seattle and it takes three days of your

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Speaker 1: life and you still say yes to go do a

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Speaker 1: three hundred person club for radio. It takes four days

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Speaker 1: of your life to get to Seattle and back on

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Speaker 1: your daughter's birthday and you're just like, you know what

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Speaker 1: next time they call about that when I'm saying no,

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Speaker 1: I'm so grateful, Thank you so much. Thank for your time,

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Speaker 1: buzz anytime. Congratulations man. On a personal note, you know,

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Speaker 1: I love to see people step out into the unknown

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Speaker 1: and take ownership and that's awesome. It's so cool. I

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Speaker 1: wish you blessings on these podcasts. I hope you do

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Speaker 1: a thousand of them. I hope you build a catalog

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Speaker 1: and sell them for a hundred million dollars later in life.

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Speaker 1: That's what that's my prayer for you. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: an artist at heart, Buzz. Artists deserve to own art.

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Speaker 1: You're the best. I hope I get to meet you

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Speaker 1: down at the country radio seminar. I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: down there, so oh well, then you're absolutely going to

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Speaker 1: meet me. I'll tell low, but make sure we see

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Speaker 1: each other no matter what. I hope, so make sure

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Speaker 1: that happens. I'll come find you. I'm in town all week. Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, I really thank you. I have a special

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Speaker 1: gift for you that i'm bringing. It's a book. It's

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Speaker 1: a little book. It's called how to Walk. It's by

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Speaker 1: a Buddhist monk. I give it to all my guests.

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Speaker 1: His name he's deceased. His name is Teep not Han,

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Speaker 1: and it's this little Book of Spirituality, and I can

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Speaker 1: either mail it to you or give it to you

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Speaker 1: in person. But you know what, I'll talk to love,

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Speaker 1: but I might get you to mail it to me.

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Speaker 1: That I'm such a book reader, I might read it

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Speaker 1: before you get here. That'd be awesome, I read I

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Speaker 1: probably I'm making a goal to read a book a week,

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Speaker 1: sometimes two, every single week. I have a thing where

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Speaker 1: once a year I recycle four books that have helped

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Speaker 1: me the most over the years. Right, I recycle once

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Speaker 1: a year I read Tuesdays with Morey Again by Mitch Album.

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Speaker 1: I read The Five People You Meet and Having by

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Speaker 1: Mitch Album because they're my two probably favorite books of

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Speaker 1: all time. I read The Alchemist once a year, and

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Speaker 1: I pick a Malcolm Gladwell book that I've read before.

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Speaker 1: So like this year, i read Talking to Strangers. Last

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Speaker 1: year I reread Outliers. It's awesome. Well, I'd be honored

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Speaker 1: to get it to you. And uh, I'm so grateful

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Speaker 1: and tickled and uh and thank you for the music

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Speaker 1: that you that you give us and for just you know,

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Speaker 1: kicking ass. And this is going to be an even

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Speaker 1: better year for you than last year. I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, so much buzz Thanks Jolly. Taking a Walk

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Speaker 1: with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple podcast or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. M