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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listeningcast, you can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I t E dot com. Start off, I will I.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been paying attention, but we've

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Speaker 1: been taught. We've been covering Phil's play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people are definitely aware.

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Speaker 1: Listen, man, I was sitting next to a guy who

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Speaker 1: was at that place because you heard about it on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Really sitting next to them.

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Speaker 2: Really what I bet the last thing that guy expected

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Speaker 2: after hearing it on the podcast was like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go down that plate and sit next to Stephen Reel.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was actually next to my daughter Rosemary. It

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Speaker 1: was me, my wife, my daughter, him, gotcha. So they

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Speaker 1: struck up a convo and then at the end of

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Speaker 1: the thing we took a picture and he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I heard about on the podcast. Came down nice and

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Speaker 1: Phil right there. Phil does kiss someone in that show,

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Speaker 1: and Krin painted it out like it was gonna be

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Speaker 1: real seedy. It made her uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: It was it was just a little peck.

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Speaker 1: It was more in a peck, but it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: how would you describe it, phil.

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Speaker 4: On like a scale, like from from a peck to

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Speaker 4: a passionate French kiss. I put it at like I

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Speaker 4: don't know, a three.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say a three.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, Well maybe it's different from show to show.

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Speaker 1: Oh do you bring it something brings Depending on how

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Speaker 1: I feel, I'll mix, I'll slip in a little.

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Speaker 2: I won't tell every So.

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Speaker 1: Some nights you just bring it. Some nights you were

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Speaker 1: like you weren't in the mood.

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Speaker 6: No, that's that would be inappropriate, so.

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Speaker 1: You would do it the same every time.

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Speaker 6: Mostly it made you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit. I said before. It's like watching

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Speaker 5: your brother like kiss someone.

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Speaker 1: It made me remotely uncomfortable.

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Speaker 6: Step and Steph enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 1: I did, And then I got home my text Phyllis

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Speaker 1: said I didn't think it was that sexy, And he

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Speaker 1: said if he ever gets cast and something NC seventeen.

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Speaker 6: He'll let me know, he'll be the first to know.

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Speaker 1: So are you happy with holladall went Phil? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: think so.

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Speaker 6: It was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, those all those people I worked with are super

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Speaker 4: nice and had a really good time.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I can't.

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Speaker 6: I can't tell you what it was like to watch it,

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Speaker 6: but I hope it was okay.

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Speaker 1: Our kids even liked it.

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Speaker 2: Don't you have another one coming?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: Our eight year old he didn't give it the best review, sure,

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Speaker 1: because he was ready to get going.

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Speaker 6: No, he was.

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Speaker 4: He probably wasn't interested in like the nineteen thirties Russian

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Speaker 4: politics that make up a lot of the third act.

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Speaker 1: I can sense that he got a little lost. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he got a little lost and the stuff about the

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Speaker 1: Russians are and everything. So he probably wouldn't give it

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Speaker 1: the best review. But the other ones really liked it.

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Speaker 6: That's good, to be fair.

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Speaker 7: He'd rather be rolling around the mud.

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Speaker 1: Or something like that. It was cold outside, though, so

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Speaker 1: I couldn't send them out there getting his boots, and

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Speaker 1: then we got I got in a fight with my

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Speaker 1: kids up at the concession booth. Oh what Yeah, embarrassed

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Speaker 1: myself at the concession stand.

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Speaker 8: They wanted some candy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, for whatever reason, the movie theaters the candies

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Speaker 1: are huge boxes. Yep, they got Every movie theater in

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Speaker 1: the world has the.

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Speaker 2: Same yeah, big box.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like what it's like good? What's it good? And

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Speaker 1: plannies yeah, pis. So we go up there and I'm like, what,

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Speaker 1: pick one box out and they all grab a box.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, agree on one box. And meanwhile it's

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Speaker 1: people behind us in line. So Vince I said, never mind,

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Speaker 1: put all those boxes down hard Bet went back to

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Speaker 1: the seats. They didn't like that well, and then Ma

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Speaker 1: went up and got it. It's just they wound up

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Speaker 1: with I won. Essentially, I won because they wound up

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Speaker 1: with one box, Okay, but I lost in one You

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Speaker 1: came out even joined today by Tyler Freel Alaskan hunter

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Speaker 1: trapper podcast or writer guy that shoots bears with a

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Speaker 1: stick bow. Yeah, flesher what else?

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Speaker 9: I don't know, man, I do, I do, have do

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Speaker 9: and have done. I guess a little bit everything. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, you host host under Talk and you cover

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Speaker 1: Alaskan outdoor politics and not hunting and fishing yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: A bunch of stuff like that.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, No, it's uh we I don't know. Try not

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Speaker 9: to take take it too seriously. But we you know,

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Speaker 9: just a bunch of uh myself and a bunch of

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Speaker 9: buddies who you know, we live in Alaska and kind

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Speaker 9: of offer a good perspective and talk shit about each

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Speaker 9: other and share hunting stories and tips, and I figure,

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Speaker 9: if it can be entertaining with a little bit of

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Speaker 9: useful information, then uh, then that's a good goal.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and you guys mix it up pretty hard.

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Speaker 1: So you guys are into you're into a lot of

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Speaker 1: the sophisticated stuff, yeah, which she.

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Speaker 9: Which yeah, oh yeah for sure. Which it makes it

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Speaker 9: kind of tough because a lot of those, you know,

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Speaker 9: are super serious subjects, and uh, you can you can

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Speaker 9: dive way into any given one and as a whole,

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Speaker 9: it's all just it's it's really more than any one

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Speaker 9: person can keep track of, see kind of you know,

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Speaker 9: you got to pick your battles. But I try to

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Speaker 9: do my best to stay on top of of what's

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Speaker 9: going on, stuff that comes up, and you know, I

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Speaker 9: can write about that and my my day jobs a

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Speaker 9: staff writer for Outdoor Life, so I you know, cover

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Speaker 9: cover a lot of that stuff in there as well

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Speaker 9: as you know, all my normal my normal duties.

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Speaker 1: Great, we're gonna getting all that. We're gonna cover a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff that's going on in Alaska today. So

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Speaker 1: you've got any kind of interest in hunting in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: wildlife management Alaska. We're going to get into that and

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Speaker 1: hanging tune and we're gonna talk about Alexander super Tramp Boss.

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Speaker 1: This is the weirdest deal, dude, I've like. So I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to tease this. Then we're going to tell

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Speaker 1: the story in greater detail, like everyone knows Crack hours.

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Speaker 1: John Cracker is into the wild and they made that

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Speaker 1: movie out of it.

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Speaker 7: Eddie Vedder made that song.

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Speaker 1: Made that song. I read that whole here. I read

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Speaker 1: that whole book watching an avalanche slide for black Bears

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Speaker 1: one day, read the whole book. I didn't read it

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Speaker 1: till late in life. The bears didn't get one. But

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Speaker 1: there's a bunch of sand hill cranes. It was the

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Speaker 1: weirdest thing I always remember that day because there was

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Speaker 1: there was nothing was melted off except that avalanche shooting

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Speaker 1: sand hill cranees walking up and down that avalanche shoot.

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Speaker 9: Those cranes are a pain in the ass man, especially

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Speaker 9: moose season right about the time stuff starts popping off.

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Speaker 9: Oh my gosh, the crane show up and you can't

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Speaker 9: hear nothing.

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Speaker 1: All day, isn't that wild?

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Speaker 10: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the time I see that.

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Speaker 9: It's the thing man.

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Speaker 1: Coming through some pass nearby. It's like, turn that off.

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Speaker 8: I have never seen that many sand hills, and they

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Speaker 8: do that.

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Speaker 9: Dance, thousands of them a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: So funny you mentioned that man because like, like to

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Speaker 1: the last two times we've been moose hunting, it was

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Speaker 1: just like everybody like just stop that for a minute.

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Speaker 9: Well, and especially you know, you know it's you're working

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Speaker 9: with limited time and every dead ass calm morning and evening.

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Speaker 9: You know you're wanting like this is the time to

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Speaker 9: get some sound out there, and those cranes won't shut up.

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Speaker 9: It's it's really irritates again.

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Speaker 1: And you're hoping to hear that.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times.

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Speaker 1: You hit me with your bulgrount real quick. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: just hit me with a volume though.

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Speaker 9: All right, I can't, I gotta I gotta sit up

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Speaker 9: a little bit.

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Speaker 1: You get a little bit of I want to do

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Speaker 1: two things. I wanted to hit me with some volume,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to do like like our buddy,

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Speaker 1: Honis can make a noise. It sounds like an oak

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Speaker 1: way off. You know how you feel that noise before

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Speaker 1: you hear it. I want you to hit me with

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Speaker 1: some volume.

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Speaker 9: And hit me with a way off right, let's see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, now hit me with the ship. Is that

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Speaker 1: a bull? Yeah? That's good, dude. All right. So this bus,

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Speaker 1: so everybody knows that this kid, Chris McCandless was his name,

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Speaker 1: His nickname is his chosen name. As Brosie Brody pointed

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Speaker 1: out earlier, was Alexander Supertramp died in his damn bus.

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Speaker 1: Uh by MacArthur right.

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Speaker 9: No, by Healey, by Hely, right outside of MacArthur.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what am I saying? By Healey and the bus

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Speaker 1: sat out there and it became a tourist attraction. But

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Speaker 1: get that bus. Your family had like camped in that bus.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, way before any of this stuff went down.

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Speaker 9: Yeah. So from the time you know, that book became popular,

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Speaker 9: I think it was maybe even I can't remember what

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Speaker 9: year the book was, but it was right about the

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Speaker 9: time we moved to Alaska because I I I was

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Speaker 9: born in Colorado, but my dad was born and grew

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Speaker 9: up in Fairbanks. And after his After my grandpa passed

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Speaker 9: away in like seventy one, my grandma moved them back

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Speaker 9: down to Colorado. So that's kind of why we were

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Speaker 9: not there. But as soon as that book became popular,

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Speaker 9: my dad would just be like, oh, yeah, that was

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Speaker 9: our that was our camp. Like we spent many nights

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Speaker 9: in that bus, and so that that was all it

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Speaker 9: was for a lot of years, and yeah, became just

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Speaker 9: kind of a deadly tourist attraction, which it's it's sad,

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Speaker 9: and I mean not to make light of it, but uh,

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Speaker 9: like people were constantly having to be get rescued trying

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Speaker 9: to get out there because there, yeah, how did that

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Speaker 9: bus get out in the first you know, all all

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Speaker 9: this is like this, this whole story. So after people

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Speaker 9: were tired of this shit, they ended up making the

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Speaker 9: decision to helicopter it. Took a schnook and helicopter that

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Speaker 9: thing out of there, and uh, the University of Alaska

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Speaker 9: and Fairbanks got a hold of it and their plan

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Speaker 9: is to display it at the museum there. And I

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Speaker 9: had written a story about how that was like our

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Speaker 9: family's hunting camp back in the day, and the gal

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Speaker 9: that was in charge or is in charge of the

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Speaker 9: bus for the museum got in touch with me, say, hey, well,

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Speaker 9: you guys want to come check it out? And uh

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Speaker 9: so we did. My dad and my uncle and I

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Speaker 9: went over there and checked it out, and it was pretty,

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Speaker 9: you know, pretty cool. They hadn't been in it since

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Speaker 9: I think seventy two. Oh, And my dad's like, remember

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Speaker 9: when Grandpa, or remember when Dad blew up the wood

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Speaker 9: stove by starting by starting throwing gasoline there and there

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Speaker 9: to get it going and blew the stack and blew

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Speaker 9: the door off and anyway, so as we're sitting there

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Speaker 9: talking too, my my Dad's like, I know, I know, mom.

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Speaker 9: My grandma had eight millimeter footage of this some work.

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Speaker 9: She had a bunch of eight milimeter videos that she

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Speaker 9: had had taken and I ended up getting a hold

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Speaker 9: of him and digitizing him. But uh so, all this

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Speaker 9: and learning from the the kind of the history of

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Speaker 9: that bus, they figured out I don't remember the exact year,

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Speaker 9: it was maybe like sixty or sixty one, early sixties.

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Speaker 9: What year was the bus manufactured, I don't remember, but

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Speaker 9: it was a Fairbanks City transit bus for a while,

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Speaker 9: and it was part of a project to improve the

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Speaker 9: Stampede trail. They got a grant, which is a road

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Speaker 9: that goes out across the Techlanika and goes out there,

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Speaker 9: and so it was left out there by construction crew

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Speaker 9: road constructions. A guy had that was working for that

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Speaker 9: crew had bought it and outfitted it as like a

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Speaker 9: bunk house to bring his family along for. It was

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Speaker 9: like a whole summer project.

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Speaker 1: Well how did he get it in there? Though?

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Speaker 9: They drug it out there on a road and the road.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but what's the whole deal? Here's what I understand

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Speaker 1: about it. What's the whole deal with you gotta like

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Speaker 1: cross the river to get to it? Yeah? Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: is a winner road or what?

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Speaker 9: No, it was I don't know what time of year

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Speaker 9: they maybe got across, got their equipment or cross there

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Speaker 9: early in the spring or in the winter. But my

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Speaker 9: dad they used to just drive across it in the

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Speaker 9: fall after because it's a glacial fed river and after

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Speaker 9: the water level start going down, they.

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Speaker 1: Just so it's like, yeah, so it's only tricky seasonally.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, which is kind of what got him in trouble.

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Speaker 9: He came back and you know, tried to get out

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Speaker 9: apparently and surprised the river's too high. But uh, yeah.

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Speaker 9: So they drug it out there as probably as a

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Speaker 9: bunk house for this guy's family, and it broke, axle

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Speaker 9: broke or something happened to it, and they just left

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Speaker 9: it and intact. And later in the sixties, my grandpa

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Speaker 9: had been hunting up the Steeze Country in the forty

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Speaker 9: Mile Country and got sick of people dealing with people,

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Speaker 9: so he heard about this bus that was set up

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Speaker 9: as bunk house and they started hunting out there, so

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Speaker 9: through like the latter half of the sixties.

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Speaker 1: No kid. Yeah, And that dude died in that bus,

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Speaker 1: right in that bus.

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Speaker 2: So when did he stop. He's in it as a

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Speaker 2: hunting game.

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Speaker 9: I think seventy two was the last year, because the

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Speaker 9: my grandpa passed away in seventy one, and I think

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Speaker 9: it was seventy one, and my uncle has pictures where

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Speaker 9: he went back out there the next the following year,

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Speaker 9: I think they'd seed said they skipped a year, and

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Speaker 9: then seventy two was back out there, and he has

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Speaker 9: some pictures with like, you know, moose and caribou cut

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Speaker 9: up all, you know, kind of right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I looking at some of the photos right now.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy.

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Speaker 7: It looks like some people were using it for target

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Speaker 7: practice for yeah it uh.

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Speaker 1: Oh people shoot? Where is are there today? Like I

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Speaker 1: believe the am things that have been shot? Oh we're

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Speaker 1: just driving on some and like some BLM land And

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Speaker 1: I was like you Al's had the plane ahead to

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Speaker 1: shoot that much stuff?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, bring it seemed like a seventy two inch flat

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Speaker 5: screen TV on public land just shot up.

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Speaker 2: That's great.

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Speaker 1: There was a trend for a while. We talked about this.

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Speaker 1: There was a trend for a while out I know

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Speaker 1: it's out Missoula where people come and shoot trees down,

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Speaker 1: living trees, shoot until they fall over. So a couple

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Speaker 1: of quick things, Tyler and I'll get back to this. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the wall eye my favorite subject.

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Speaker 9: I'm so sick.

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Speaker 1: What mean you sick of these guys?

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Speaker 8: Just they just I'm not sick of them. I just

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Speaker 8: can't wait to hear what they do next.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, this is here's the thing, this is

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Speaker 1: this is what this is what everybody saying, this is

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Speaker 1: what everybody thinks. So everybody knows. Everybody knows. And we

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Speaker 1: had the guy on there's the Walleye cheating scandal where

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Speaker 1: the Jason Fisher who's been on the podcast it's conducting

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Speaker 1: a walleye tournament. There's some fish that, yeah, do I relate?

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Speaker 1: How what degree do I explain this?

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Speaker 7: He looked at He looked at their bag, knew they

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Speaker 7: weren't four pounder like they weighed at seven.

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Speaker 2: He knew they were four.

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Speaker 1: Cut them open, and yeah. The guy's weighing fish all

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Speaker 1: day long at the end of a tournament, and you

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Speaker 1: just know what fish look like, like a twenty inch

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Speaker 1: wall that weighs, this eighteen inch wall that ways at

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Speaker 1: and some guys bring some fish up and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they got blank pounds of fish. But they weigh them

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Speaker 1: up and it's like, wow, that's really heavy. Takes a

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Speaker 1: leather man, which is sitting right behind Uncle Chastey in

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Speaker 1: a display case, takes that leather man and cuts open

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Speaker 1: the walleyes and they're pack full of weights and fish filets.

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Speaker 1: These two individuals, what are these fellas' names?

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Speaker 5: Chase and I don't want to I think really the

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Speaker 5: most important one is.

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Speaker 1: So these guys become real famous for this cheating deal.

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Speaker 1: Then one of them gets in some other trouble soon after,

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Speaker 1: he violates a restraining order and he equips his kid

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of fake one hundred dollars bills and

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Speaker 1: they go and sends them down to the bowling alley

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Speaker 1: to buy stuff with the fake hunt our bills. It

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Speaker 1: makes the news. Now he's in the news all over again,

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Speaker 1: including at the meat eater dot com. He's in the

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Speaker 1: news all over again. Also deer poaching. However, this is old,

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Speaker 1: not new deer poaching. He's getting it. He's getting in

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Speaker 1: trouble for stuff he did a long time ago. Like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, let's say if I was twenty and I'd

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Speaker 1: gotten in trouble for setting snares illegally, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, my buddies are like, oh, you know

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Speaker 1: what to one night we were out jack lighting cottontail rabbits,

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Speaker 1: right and be like, you know, the guy got in

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Speaker 1: trouble for setting snares, he's in trouble now for jack

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Speaker 1: lighting cottondeal rabbits. And I'd be like, I did that before.

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Speaker 1: So everybody's telling on me now about everything that's a

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Speaker 1: situation he's in now, and I think I'm apologizing for

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying now it's like now they're just you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like secrets are coming out.

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Speaker 2: Well, I thought I read something about this where he

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Speaker 2: had gotten in trouble for this prior to the Walleye stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think that's understanding, and that his license revoked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you there? I jump it.

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Speaker 9: What are we buying one hundred dollars bills at a

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Speaker 9: bowling alley?

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Speaker 1: It's a great question.

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Speaker 9: We're worried about all this stuff. That's issue me.

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Speaker 8: There's some other stuff in there too.

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Speaker 1: The real issue is uh he so it was incriminating

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Speaker 1: about the counterfeit money. Is they have text exchange where

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Speaker 1: his kid, he gives his kid this money and it's

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Speaker 1: like it says, like not actual money. It says like

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Speaker 1: it's like movie money, and like movie money looks pretty real,

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Speaker 1: but it says you know, and what the hell says

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Speaker 1: movie money on it? Something sends and then they text

365
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Speaker 1: about it. He's like, dude, it worked. Great. Send someone.

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Speaker 1: He's like, Bobby's gonna come by and get some more

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Speaker 1: like it worked, you know, And they're celebrating that the

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Speaker 1: counterfeit money was accepted.

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Speaker 7: But I just at this point, you know, it's not

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Speaker 7: like a new you know, I thought there had been

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Speaker 7: rumors about him being a poacher flying around for a

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Speaker 7: long time.

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Speaker 2: Well he was I think I think he was a

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Speaker 2: convicted poacher.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and the scrutiny from everything else certainly didn't help

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Speaker 7: his case. And like there's a lot of people eyeball.

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Speaker 1: On him that there's an age component because people in glasshouses. Right,

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Speaker 1: So we broke all manner as youngsters in high school,

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Speaker 1: we broke all manner of laws. Let me tell you,

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Speaker 1: for instance, ignorantly. No, let me tell you for instance.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell this about a guy that's not alive anymore.

382
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Speaker 1: Nothing you can do to him. Smelt dipping with Eric

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Speaker 1: kern Okay, we're smelt dipping near White Lake Channel where

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Speaker 1: some smelt were spawning up on the gravel bar. No

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Speaker 1: one knew about not going into the creek, spawning along

386
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Speaker 1: the shoreline. And here comes by a salmon feeding on smelt.

387
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Speaker 1: Eric Kernan scoops it up and it is in the

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Speaker 1: smelt net. Now there's no way in hell he's gonna

389
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Speaker 1: let it go. But that's an illegal capture. He puts

390
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Speaker 1: the salmon down his waiters. You want to talk about

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Speaker 1: a mess. How old we were in high school? We

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Speaker 1: were olden drive.

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Speaker 5: So Chase Kaminski is thirty six and he's accused of

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Speaker 5: deer hunting between twenty thirteen and twenty twenty one. Twenty

395
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Speaker 5: thirteen is ten years ago, which would make him twenty

396
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Speaker 5: six time.

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Speaker 1: Too old for poaching. But let me just clarify, like

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying, let me get to my broader point,

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00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: and this isn't about me, this is Eric. Well, no,

400
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: because in our time, we sold our smelt to a

401
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: guy in high school tenth grade. I think sold smelt.

402
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: That's illegal. Point being if I had gotten in trouble

403
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 1: for something, all these infractions that seem like just minor issues,

404
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: like Eric caught a sam and put in his waiters,

405
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 1: dip smelt with the salm and nose first down into

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00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 1: the ankle of his waiters for like whatever amount of

407
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: time and then like took the salmon back out later. Okay,

408
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: all this like stupid stuff that I would never let

409
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Speaker 1: my kids do. But all this stupid stuff, if you

410
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: didn't got in trouble and all of a sudden all

411
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: this came out, you'd paint this really damning. You'd paint

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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: this really damning portrait of an individual who just had

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Speaker 1: to be around a lot of like dumb decision.

414
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 5: Making around it or the ringleader of it.

415
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Speaker 1: I'm not condoning. I'm saying like it makes reading this,

416
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Speaker 1: it makes me look and say, man, at a point,

417
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 1: like when all the dirt comes out, all the dirt

418
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: comes out, it winds up looking. I just would invite

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Speaker 1: people out there who grew up in a rural atmosphere

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Speaker 1: and grew up like like a redneck upbringing to think

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Speaker 1: pretty hard. Okay, to think pretty hard.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they probably didn't when they were that age. They

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Speaker 2: probably just did shit and didn't even think about it,

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Speaker 2: think about it. I was on on nextually other day

425
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Speaker 2: looking at all the old spots I used to hunt

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Speaker 2: when I was real young and realize that none of

427
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: that ship was public.

428
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: I thought it was all public back then. We thought

429
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Speaker 1: public was that no one yelled at you when you

430
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Speaker 1: were there, never got yelled at us.

431
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm gonna look at that old

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Speaker 2: turkey hunting spot I used to go to all the

433
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Speaker 2: time and realize that it was deep into someone at

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Speaker 2: private property.

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Speaker 5: You know, Steve, we should start a new We should

436
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Speaker 5: start a new segment called confession Confessions.

437
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Speaker 1: I don't and here I would, I wouldn't even know

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Speaker 1: where to begin, but here's the thing about it. It

439
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: was so unusual by it. So in those days, like

440
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: you would have your mom, Your mom would apply for

441
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: a dough tag.

442
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, that was very common in my circle.

443
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: So my mom might draw dough tag and you get

444
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: the the dope for mom. And I'm not like, I

445
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: just don't want to act like I don't want to

446
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: sit here now and act like I don't want to

447
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: sit here now and act like things didn't happen. That happened.

448
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: So with this fella now, with all this stuff coming on,

449
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: I just beg it looks bad, but just think about

450
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: your own life and think about the things you've done.

451
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: And once it came to be like like, are you

452
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: really telling me that if you like to drink? Are

453
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: you telling you never drove home when you might have

454
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 1: blown a drunk? But what does that look like when

455
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: you get caught.

456
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 7: I don't think that's the same as this guy though,

457
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 7: because he's just kept doing that shit and knew it

458
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 7: was wrong, Like this wasn't like oh back when I

459
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 7: was a sophomore in high.

460
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: School, you know, and cheating in him stuff and Walleyes

461
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: full of Walleye flays is like on a whole other

462
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: and like cheating people out of money and winning boats.

463
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 7: I think it's fair to say this guy's like a criminal,

464
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 7: a great a dirt bag.

465
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got another confession for you when I got

466
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: my When I for Christmas, I got a Marl and

467
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: for Christmas, I got that bolt Action Marl and twenty

468
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: two mag that everybody had for a while. And pulled

469
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: a car over next to this thing called Tamawalla Lodge

470
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: and saw a fox squirrel perched up on a tree

471
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: and shot it out of the car window and then

472
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: ran and got it and jumped back over the fence.

473
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: Do you feel a lot lighter someone had seen me

474
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: do that?

475
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: You know what?

476
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: Like the list of things would have been illegal discharge

477
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: of firearm like I don't know this insane looking rap sheet.

478
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 7: But also back then, like maybe that would have happened,

479
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 7: but there was I also feel like there was a

480
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 7: little bit more tolerance for that kind of.

481
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, stay tuned for next week's edition of I'll make

482
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: a list, because if I have a run for political office,

483
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this anyways.

484
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's better to preempt it.

485
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: The first thing I'm gonna do is, here's everything bad

486
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: I've ever.

487
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 8: Said, now your planed, Steve, what you're gonna do?

488
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: If I do, that's what I'm gonna do. No one's

489
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: gonna come and say, like he I'll be like, dude,

490
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: So I'm I already told you every boy that, So

491
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: I'm like, list, should I did this? Real bad tell us?

492
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: Here's the thing that's even more surprising than the fact

493
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: that that fella has been in a lot of trouble Japan.

494
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 1: If I were to name for you place, if if

495
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: I said you name for me countries that have a

496
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: lot of bear attacks, it goes something like this America,

497
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: and then they'd be like dah Canada, and then they Russia.

498
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: They wouldn't know what to say. Oh yeah, you'd probably

499
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: get Russia.

500
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 7: Russia.

501
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: Japan has had one hundred and sixty seven bear attacks

502
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: this year.

503
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: That's a lot.

504
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: So you got to think about the positioning of Japan.

505
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: What kind of bears are those brown bears?

506
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: Oh okay, think about the position of Japan.

507
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 5: Like I thought they were black bears.

508
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 9: They got both. I think do they have black pers

509
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 9: have black bears too? I don't know if they're not

510
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 9: like American black bears, but some kind of.

511
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: Someone should look this up. I'm pretty sure that's correct.

512
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: But if you imagine the illusions right like when you

513
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: look at I wish we had this for scale. I mean,

514
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: just how far the allusions stretch out? Sure, Like it's

515
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: the width, like you imagine how big, Like you could

516
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: fit Texas, California, most of Montana into Alaska and then

517
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: the illusions basically extend Alaska by that distance. It's distance

518
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: all over again towards Japan.

519
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just looking at the map, it looks like

520
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: it's about the same distance as it would be from

521
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 2: the coast to California to Hawaii.

522
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 7: I mean, Japan gets a lot of the same kind

523
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 7: of salmon run.

524
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's what it's like a it's like

525
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: a Pacific rim, you know. And so they have this

526
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,239
Speaker 1: like this suite of wildlife. Do you remember we had

527
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: the bear researcher in general all around good guy, Carl Melkaman,

528
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: And he talked when he talked about being researching bears

529
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: in China, and he was saying, yeah, he's saying, man,

530
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: the weird thing about is everything's kind of the same

531
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: but a little different. So he said, like you look

532
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: at a tree and be like man, it's a lot

533
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: like our beech tree, and there'll be a grouse. Be like,

534
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: that's a lot like our grouse. A little different. That's

535
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: a lot like our grouse. And the bear is like,

536
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: it's a lot like our black bear, but a little different,

537
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: he says. But the whole thing would fly out the

538
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: window when you're looking as a big golden monkey. He goes,

539
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: we don't have one of those. But anyhow, they got

540
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: this bear like like such a bear issue in Japan. Yeah,

541
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: they look they're set to it that they've exceeded their

542
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: twenty twenty record. Twenty twenty three has already passed up

543
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty record of one hundred and fifty eight

544
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: bear attacks in Japan. Woman was just mauled to death.

545
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: All these bear attacks three fatalities, including a seventy nine

546
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: year old woman maul to death in her backyard. Bears

547
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: outskirts of Tokyo. They say it was a poor crop

548
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 1: of beech nuts. This is reported in Bloomberg. A poor

549
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: crop of beech nuts has left led to more bear

550
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: human interactions and they are offering like a compensation program

551
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: to bear hunters five thousand yen for each bear they shoot.

552
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 9: Is that really?

553
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Why do you have forty five

554
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: dollars krinn, that's not what they're paying them.

555
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 5: Let me see, so yen is like it is like

556
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: about one hundred and twenty five or so to the dollar.

557
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 6: Let me just check that.

558
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 9: Well, you just got to watch Seinfeld and get the

559
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 9: creamer when he has the dudes that are millionaires that

560
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 9: have a million yen and he consmits them to spend

561
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 9: all their money and they end up sleeping into chest

562
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 9: of drawers.

563
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: I would love to know, like.

564
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 7: What their current management system is as far as hunting goes.

565
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 5: Yes, five thousand yen is like thirty three bucks right now,

566
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 5: that's the bounty, and there's yeah, and there's the Usuri

567
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 5: brown bear in the Japanese or Asiatic black bear.

568
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: What does the bear cause in all the trouble? I

569
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: remember Carl Malcolms saying the Asiatic black bear mixes it

570
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: up lots of scrabby little bear.

571
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't, I don't see that.

572
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's the one. I'm only saying that that's

573
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the one because Carl Malcolm was saying, it's like a

574
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a got a temper. It's

575
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: like a fighting little bear.

576
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 5: Oh, there's a there's a picture in the Bloomberg article

577
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 5: of a group of hunters searching for a brown bear

578
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 5: that was on the loos in Sapporo a couple of

579
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 5: years ago. So maybe it's about both of them, both

580
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 5: both black and brown bear.

581
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: I mean, just don't picture iteez.

582
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: Well.

583
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 9: I think they have a commercial market for bear meat

584
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 9: over there be anyway.

585
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, we covered that. MM have a vending machine. There's

586
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: a guy that you can buy bear meat out of

587
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: a vending machine.

588
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 9: It was expensive, Yeah, I remember seeing that pop up.

589
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 5: Thousand yend just doesn't seem like a lot. I know

590
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 5: that the that the dollar is strong to the end

591
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 5: right now.

592
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: But still fifty bucks is like no, man, fifty bucks

593
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: like that that'd be like just good, that'd be like

594
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: a good price for like a rack. Like really, that's

595
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: great fifty bucks for bare That's a lot of work, dude. Yeah,

596
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: so but if you can turn around and uh also

597
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: to do the sale right, speaking of bounties, that was

598
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: Krin's transition like that, speaking of bonies. This this is

599
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: this is one of those perennial stories that pops.

600
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 7: Up now and then but the numbers just keep getting higher.

601
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, an angler earned. Can we get into the Can

602
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: we get into our personal connection to this or you

603
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: think we should not?

604
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 5: If you want to, I think that's fine.

605
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: An angler earned one hundred grand.

606
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 8: Now earned?

607
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what he's got into this for overhead.

608
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 7: He's got a lot of time.

609
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 8: What kind of boat does he have?

610
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: So on the Columbia River in order to as part

611
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 1: of a salmon restoration program. I'm a back way up.

612
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: All the dam building we did on the Columbia has

613
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: the long term impact of really imperiling a bunch of

614
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: salmon runs. And you know, people say, some people when

615
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: people look at I've gotten to this before, some people

616
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: look at like why did the US win World War two?

617
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: You know, and you can get in all these things

618
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: like one way, we were able to produce more aluminum

619
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: more quickly than anyone else. So we're, you know, we

620
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: want that that's the limiting factor that allows to win

621
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: World War two? How they do that well, because we

622
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: had all these dams on the Columbia which generated so

623
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: much electricity, and smelting aluminum requires a lot of electricity,

624
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: and so we're you know, the long and short of

625
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: it is, they damn the shit out of that river,

626
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: and it's just the salmon runs are basically not salmon

627
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: runs anymore. And there's all these efforts now to try

628
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: to find some possible way to begin dismantling some of

629
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: these dams. But it has all this implication for agriculture

630
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: and shipping. It's one of the biggest problems that your

631
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: kids will be hearing about. Your kids will probably hear

632
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: a lot more about it than you will in your lifetime.

633
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: As part of the salmon restoration program, they're trying to

634
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: limit they're trying to kill off predators of salmon smoke, and.

635
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 7: The dam's also created ideal conditions for this pike.

636
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: You build a giant structure that impedes the movement of fish,

637
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: and on top of that, you then create a reservoir

638
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: system that gets loaded up with small mouth bass and

639
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: pike minnows, and and that's stuff just hammers all the

640
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: salmon smelt smolt that usually in the past we don't

641
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: even really have to worry about paciforous predators. It's all

642
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: part of big mass. So there's like the elephant in

643
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: the room that's not really the accurate to put it,

644
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: because people do talk about it. There's the core primary issue.

645
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: The core primary issue is damning on the Columbia. You

646
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: can love the dams or hate them, but it's like

647
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: an objective reality that the dams on the Columbia are

648
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: driving salmon runs to extinction. You can be like, eh,

649
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: price you pay or whatever, but that's just the truth,

650
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: however you feel about it. So, since you can't take

651
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: care of the main issue, they're always trying to take

652
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: care of like little minor issues. And one of the

653
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: minor issues is predation on salmon small by pike minos.

654
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: So they've set up a bounty program. What's the pike

655
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: mental worth? They set up a bounty program where you

656
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: can kill pike minos.

657
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 7: It's a varying rate, six of dollars a fish for

658
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 7: the first twenty five over nine inches, twenty five to

659
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 7: two hundred fish eight two hundred plus ten.

660
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: So a dude krin talk to the guy that runs

661
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: the program. A dude netted himself. He caught ten thousand

662
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: northern pike mentos, landed himself one hundred grand. So that

663
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: becomes the headline. But I don't know what he's got

664
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: in it. For expenses. Yeah, I mean, and we tried

665
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: to get him to come on the podcast. But these

666
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: guys that are making big that, these guys that are

667
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: making living fish and pike mintos. What's funny is you

668
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: think that like they would be like, well, here's how

669
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: I do it. Let's get them all to save the salmon.

670
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: But he doesn't want to damage the resource.

671
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 9: Right, He wants to make sure he's got it.

672
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: He doesn't want anyone to know how he does it

673
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: because he doesn't want to damage the resource. They're supposed

674
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: to Yeah, I'm sympathetic.

675
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 5: There's supposed to be some steep competition and all kinds

676
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 5: of drama around, like who's known locally to be like

677
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 5: one of the top.

678
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 8: Sounds like a reality show. We should do.

679
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: No, they've been approached in fact, But isn't it funny

680
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: that this whole thing is to try to kill off

681
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: pike mentals. And then there's the guy that figures out

682
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: how to really do it, but he doesn't want to

683
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: talk about it because he doesn't want everybody killing.

684
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 8: If we can test that, I.

685
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 5: Was going to suggest that, like they take off some

686
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 5: time next season.

687
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 7: You can get you can do a little practicing for

688
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 7: those things right here in Montano.

689
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: The weird deal is these northern pike mentals are a

690
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: native fish.

691
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 7: Sure, and then uh, like Colorado, Utah, they're like a protected,

692
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 7: threatened or endangered species.

693
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: They can't have.

694
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 9: You know, they're doing very poorly there.

695
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: Twelve thousand people are getting after it. Twelve thousand people

696
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: are catching one hundred and fifty six thousand pike mentals.

697
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: But one dude is catching ten thousand pike mentals. Dall's

698
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 1: he doing? You know, netting? He's netting probably maybe a lot.

699
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: Would that guy say? Is he rotten and reeling them?

700
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 7: Or That's the thing is like, what's the what's a

701
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 7: legal method of take for this? Because like netting you'd

702
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 7: have buyketch of.

703
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 9: But if you can person like purse seeing them where

704
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 9: you can?

705
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: You know, I think they're hooking line and the man

706
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: you think well. In Karen's notes from her conversation, she

707
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: uses the term reeled.

708
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 9: Yeah are you?

709
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: Are you not just hammering away with facts right now?

710
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: You're on the phone with the guy.

711
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, But I just I just put some book points

712
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 5: in there, So I probably wrote reel because he said real, Yeah,

713
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 5: I don't think I just pulled that out of thin air.

714
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: So that's not what you're gonna say. I just for

715
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: some reason, I thought.

716
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 7: I thought it was rotten reel catching for some reason.

717
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: Has pulled it out of.

718
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 10: Think it's something I think if it were rotten real

719
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 10: I would take I would run a fly rig on

720
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 10: the river where you got flies.

721
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: Up. This is the first year that someone that this

722
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: is the first year that a single er angle that

723
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: a single angler. I don't know if this is that true.

724
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: The first year that a singler single angler earned a

725
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: hundred k. The guy that earned a hundred k should

726
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: really come on the show. I won't you ask you

727
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: any specific questions.

728
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 5: He knows us, but he.

729
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: Knows he was flattered, right, yeah, yeah, it just come

730
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: on and you can. We'll bleep out anything that you

731
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: don't any trade secrets.

732
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 5: You know what we can do if we like record

733
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 5: him in the studio. You know how like with those

734
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 5: documentaries they just kind of do a silhouette. You can

735
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: just totally like.

736
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: Getting the picture with a bunch of special forces dudes,

737
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: how they like blur out their eyes will.

738
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: Blur out your We'll give you a mob. We'll give

739
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: you a mob. Informant keep a low profile, blur out

740
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: your eyes, any specifics about where you go or what

741
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: you do. And in terms of like word getting out, dude,

742
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: word is out. This is a widely reported thing. We'll

743
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: give you like a bunch of free clothes, cook up

744
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: some I'll have you for dinner. I'll have you for dinner.

745
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: We'll give you a brand new play knife so you

746
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: can flay your pipe. Mentals up and uh, and a wallet.

747
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: You put all your money in wallets. Oh yeah, because

748
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: you need it haul around all that money. Give two walts.

749
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: You might need a backpack that money.

750
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: We'll give you a backpack you put all your money in,

751
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: and just come. We'll give you a duffel to put

752
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: all your money in, and you come on the pod

753
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: has to talk to us. In twenty twenty two, the

754
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: rewards went like this, So the rewards for to five anglers.

755
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: So the top five anglers in twenty twenty two sixty

756
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: nine K, sixty three K, fifty six K, fifty four K,

757
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: forty three K.

758
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 5: Then it really drops off. Then it really okaya, But

759
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 5: I didn't know if it was like then by like

760
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 5: twenty grand it drops off, but it drops off.

761
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: So was the one hundred k guy in that top.

762
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 5: K yes, okay, yes, so he's a command like the

763
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 5: top couple are always our trading places.

764
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 8: Ten percent of the anglers catch eighty percent of the fish.

765
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: That's true in general with hunting. Yeah with yeah, hmm

766
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: hundred command master angler one.

767
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 7: Hundred and fifty six thousand of those things they removed

768
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty three. Wonder if it's doing any good?

769
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 5: God love that a guy in the show Pike Mino's good.

770
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: I just want to know what else he's catching.

771
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 7: They used to eat him back way back in the day,

772
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 7: the Mountain Man era.

773
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: You know what, it looks like it could be better

774
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: than it is. It looks like you, like a wall

775
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: I had sex with a sucker yet have teeth.

776
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, I wonder if you could turn around

777
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: and sell those to like, like uh for trapping bait

778
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: or something trapping babe.

779
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 7: They sell them for bait up in Northwest Colorado for

780
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 7: lakers and ship small ones.

781
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: My boys didn't get into the soccer fl a business.

782
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: Speaking of what you guys sent in a picture and

783
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: puts on. So we're trying to we're trying to like

784
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: get everybody's great cell phone or sell not cell phone

785
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: trail cam. Get everybody's great trail cam pictures. You know,

786
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: it's so funny it guys sent a picture of three

787
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: wild hogs all lined up in a exactly sensitive I'm

788
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: being sensitive here to a family.

789
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 5: They're a vertic we lined up in.

790
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: A copulatory posture, free in a copulatory train. And the

791
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: caption he wrote, I can't get over the cash he wrote,

792
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: is try to add a small town. But it looks

793
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: like a small town to me. I mean, this looks

794
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: like a big city. It's like all the woods. All right.

795
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: Back to our special guest, Tyler Freele, And here's where

796
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: I want to start. Tyler, what in sam Hill is

797
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: going on with doll sheep? Okay, doll sheep numbers and

798
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: doll sheep closures and break the whole thing down to

799
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: me and vast tracks of federal that you can't hunt,

800
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: tell us.

801
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 9: The whole Danswerry.

802
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 1: All right, so you've covered You've covered this heavily.

803
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 9: Yeah I will, I'll do my best.

804
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, what's a doll sheep?

805
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 11: Uh?

806
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: Well?

807
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 9: There, Alaska's native wild sheep thin horn, very similar to

808
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 9: a stone sheep. They're predominantly all white. It's kind of

809
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 9: their their characters. They're defining characteristic they live in, whether

810
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 9: they say like officially seven or eight mountain ranges in Alaska,

811
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 9: pretty widespread all the you know, pretty much all the

812
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 9: suitable cheap habitat in Alaska has doll sheep on them,

813
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 9: and the population you know, goes over into Canada and

814
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 9: then transitions to stone sheep and then you know big

815
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 9: horn sheep down below.

816
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's the thing i'd read. There's a

817
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: book that are biologists out of Fairbanks put out. It's

818
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: kind of like it like a magnum opus. There's some

819
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: wildlife biologists, but he's kind of explaining that, you know,

820
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: what's what's the sheep in Siberia snow sheep. Yeah, there's

821
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: a couple of different subst You kind of imagine it's

822
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: like band of this like band of sheep, ye, right,

823
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: it would be uninterrupted. Yeah, so at a time, like

824
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: if you went back to the places scene when you

825
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: could walk from Siberia to Alaska, it's just like this

826
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: band of sheep, and it would go from Siberia into Mexico. Yeah,

827
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: right all down through like through Yukon territory. All the

828
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: Canadian rockies down and this thing would kind of like

829
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: peter out in Mexico, and it would they would if

830
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: you were to walk that journey, you'd probably recognize this

831
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: that they kind of like gradually changed. Yeah, you know,

832
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: they started out big and burly and dark and they

833
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: end up smaller and white. Yeah.

834
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 9: Small. Yeah, Well because the snow sheeper even smaller typically

835
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 9: than dull sheep from what I understand, but which it

836
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 9: may have been. This guy here, Wayne Heimer, who was

837
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 9: a longtime sheep research biologist in Fairbanks, was kind of

838
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 9: like the you know, one of the original cheap management

839
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 9: and research by bile just uh in the state of

840
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 9: Alaska at all.

841
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 5: You know.

842
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tyler brought me this book, doll Sheep Management in

843
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: Alaska from Place to Scene to Present by Wayne E. Heimer.

844
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 9: Yeah. So, uh, these sheep are all all throughout Alaska,

845
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 9: and uh see where they're picking a spot to start with?

846
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 9: Uh with the way the situation now, So it's a

847
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 9: little bit of history, uh after statehood. Before statehood and

848
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 9: Laska was a territory, Uh, efficient wildlife was managed by

849
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 9: the Feds because it wasn't there. State didn't exist then

850
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 9: and at state what.

851
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: Was the yeah, that's yeah. So so prior to statehood

852
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: there was no sort of like territorial game management Agency.

853
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 9: No, it was all it was all the FEDS. And frankly,

854
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 9: like I mean, he talks, Wayne talks in his book

855
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 9: about how a lot of this management quote unquote was

856
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 9: like guess work, Like they didn't really know nobody knew

857
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 9: like what we really had except for certain you know,

858
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 9: certain areas closer to populations, you know, towns and whatnot,

859
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 9: and so into what we had in like the early on,

860
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 9: I think even in the territorial days, they had like

861
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 9: a three quarter curl rule for shooting rams, which that

862
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 9: was just borrowed from big Horns. That's what they did

863
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 9: for big horns. So they just this might work. And over,

864
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 9: you know, over and over Wayne's decades of research, they

865
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 9: developed like the full curl mature ramp theory that you

866
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 9: know and kind of goes along with vlarious geists, you know,

867
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 9: sheep sheep theories to develop the full curl management strategy,

868
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 9: which you know is kind of all kind of if

869
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 9: I don't remember touchback, I tend to my brain kind

870
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 9: of fires off in different directions a lot of times.

871
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 9: So so, uh, last it becomes a state, gets tied

872
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 9: up to the wildlife and the duty to manage them.

873
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 9: And the next like probably the biggest, well the biggest

874
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 9: impact you know to hunters was Anilka and Anska the

875
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 9: Alaska Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act and then Alaska National

876
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 9: Interest Land Conservation Act, which those were a from what

877
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 9: I understand, a trade off to get the Trans Alaska pipeline.

878
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 9: So it was it was during the Carter administration. They

879
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 9: wanted they discovered oil and prude O Bay needed a

880
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 9: way to get that oil to market. So the Trans

881
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 9: Alaska pipeline was the solution. And to get that, they

882
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 9: the Carter administration wanted all this federal land set aside

883
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 9: and you know, for conservation purposes to protect it, which

884
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 9: I think is you know, a pretty good thing. So

885
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 9: and I don't know all the details. I wasn't I

886
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 9: wasn't around back then. This is uh I think it

887
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 9: was finalized in nineteen eighty, but our two senators uh

888
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 9: Ted Stevens and Gravel, I didn't like what Jimmy Carter

889
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 9: wanted to take. I don't know all the details in that,

890
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 9: but Carter basically told him, you're gonna give it to

891
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 9: me or I or you're gonna come back in a year,

892
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 9: begging for me to take it, and they said, you

893
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 9: don't have Alas Wayne describes, they told Carter that you

894
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 9: don't have the balls. Well, he'd had the balls, and

895
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 9: he signed an executive order. I think it was using

896
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 9: the Antiquities Act labeling or I don't know again details

897
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 9: but basically took subsistence hunting as an described it as

898
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 9: an iniquity in this executive order and locked up huge

899
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,959
Speaker 9: portions of Alaska immediately, like you know, you're going hunting

900
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 9: there this fall, No, you're not. And my uncle describes

901
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 9: this like he was going cheap hunting and he was

902
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 9: gonna go sheep hunting the wrangles in a certain spot.

903
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: And this was a political move by Carter.

904
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, to get a nilka, to get the land set

905
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 9: aside that he wanted for anilka from one of like actually.

906
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: Leveraged, yeah, leveraged hunting access for a greater political vide.

907
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

908
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 9: And it and it was a big impact to the

909
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 9: economy too. You know, it affected outfitters, resident hunters, everybody.

910
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 9: And so my uncle describes it as, you know, he

911
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 9: heard about this and then uh, you know went to

912
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 9: state fishing game in the state's official position was non compliance.

913
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 9: They told, you know, they told him, unless a FED

914
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 9: sees us, see you pull the trigger, have a nice hunt.

915
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: Oh really, so these guys have been real legit.

916
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, big time. And uh after a year that

917
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 9: they uh yeah, they went and they gave him an

918
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 9: ilka and so yep, they came back.

919
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: He was right, you know, he took and saw. They

920
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: then they ended up settling where they got the corridor.

921
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean they run that. I mean just for just

922
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: people understand. Like early we're talking about how big Alaska is.

923
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what it is top to bottom. Well,

924
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: just like the Brooks Range, it's all the size of California.

925
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's five, like five hundred miles from Prudo Bay

926
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 9: to Fairbanks and so that that then it's got another yeah,

927
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 9: another three hundred fifty you know, I mean maybe three

928
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 9: hundred dish miles.

929
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 1: It depends on where you're measuring from to You could

930
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: run the picture that you're you're trying to secure land,

931
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: you're trying to secure rights to a corridor that is

932
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: a thousand mile you know, almost one thousand miles.

933
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 9: I think it's I think it's I think the pipeline

934
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 9: is eight hundred miles roughly. But so it was a

935
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 9: big deal and they gave him a milka. And then

936
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 9: so there were already some existing National parks Denale, which

937
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 9: was McKinley at the time, and a few others. So

938
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 9: this created a bunch of new national parks Wrangle, Saint Elias,

939
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 9: and Gates of the Arctic National Park up in the

940
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 9: Brooks Range and created and it created a lot of

941
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 9: you know, also National Park Service managed preserve lands. It

942
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 9: expanded and I believe it also expanded. An war was

943
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 9: in existence at the time, but I think that expanded it.

944
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 9: And you know, basically federal lie or created all these refuges, parks, preserves,

945
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 9: all this stuff.

946
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, is it kind of the way I've understood it.

947
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: I never I never knew this thing about how they

948
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: settled it. But the way I've understood it is that

949
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: like that move forced a lot of people to decide

950
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: how they're going to carve the pie up. Yeah, for sure, right,

951
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: Like and they had like formalized ownerships. Okay, so all

952
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: this federal lands, some will be this, some will be

953
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: that the state's going to get this, Uh, and then

954
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: are going to get there and and it forced a

955
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: sort of codification of who owned what in that state.

956
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 9: Oh for sure.

957
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

958
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 9: And then and that's just the base layer to it.

959
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 9: Then you get into another layer of like management styles

960
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 9: and principles and uh what the word, you know what

961
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 9: how to describe it? You get into the preservationists versus

962
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 9: conservationist mentalities. Uh so anilka effectively, like I mean a

963
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 9: lot of and there's still like the people that were

964
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 9: around like do not like Jimmy You don't want to

965
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 9: bring up Jimmy Carter around them because they've got some

966
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 9: still source to a very sore and uh and a

967
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 9: lot of peop but don't understand why. But that's that's

968
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 9: why they just took it. And uh, you know the

969
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 9: result of even just wrangle Saint Elias and gates of

970
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 9: the Arctic National Park. Gates the Arctic at the time

971
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 9: they figure had six thousand to ten thousand cheap, so

972
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 9: just they cut a huge chunk out of what hunters

973
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 9: could access.

974
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: The least visited national park. Yeah, it makes zero sense,

975
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: but it's a national park. It makes zero sense, you know.

976
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 9: And a lot of this country I'm fully behind protecting it,

977
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 9: you know, like I don't I don't want to destroy

978
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 9: or see all that stuff destroyed. But let us use

979
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 9: the freaking lands man.

980
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's been I mean hunting it has nothing

981
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: to do with that.

982
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 9: No, no, it doesn't. It doesn't.

983
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: You know, like let let people like the most most

984
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: ridiculous land use Oh for sure, we have zero implications.

985
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: You know.

986
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, and in fact, you know, like where the world

987
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 9: record doll sheep was killed is now in the Hard

988
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 9: Park Wrangle Saint Elias National Park, and oh is it

989
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 9: really Yeah, there's a guy a ram Glaciers where Swank

990
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 9: killed that ram, and since that you would think, oh,

991
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 9: well there's got to be all sort of those rams

992
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 9: running around in there. And that's not the case anymore.

993
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 9: Since that became a national park. I mean, people quit

994
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 9: using it as much. There's still some subsistence allowances, like

995
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 9: if you live in glenn Allen or some of these

996
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 9: other little towns, you can hunt the Hard Park, but

997
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 9: you can't. The access is extremely restricted.

998
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 1: Can you explain this is the term out here Alaskans

999
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: use all the time. Can you explain hard Park? Okay,

1000
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, no, so so explain it, like you're taught,

1001
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: like explain it, like if it was Yellowstone.

1002
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, so yellow says, I know nothing about Yellowstone. But

1003
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 9: you have Yellowstone National Park, which is hard National Park.

1004
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 9: You cannot hunt there. You gotta have a beare proof

1005
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 9: food container in your backpack, you gotta you know, all

1006
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 9: these The list goes on for rules.

1007
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: It's the hard part, hard park.

1008
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 9: So the preserve is technically part of the park, but

1009
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 9: it a lot has allowances for the general public to hunt.

1010
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 9: You know, they still got some some pretty silly rules.

1011
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 9: But you can hunt preserved the takeaways. You can hunt

1012
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 9: preserve land. You can't hunt hard park land generally.

1013
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a soft park man myself.

1014
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 9: Oh I'm a.

1015
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: The you guys got so many terms that like I'm

1016
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: just rattling off, and you know, I love it. I

1017
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: love it. But yeah, so when I hear when I'm

1018
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: talking to friends mine up there and I talk about

1019
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: like the hard part, you know, and I always look

1020
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 1: to people that I know have no idea what they're

1021
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: talking about, and I'm like, or if they're gonna ask

1022
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: what he's talking about, they never do.

1023
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 11: No.

1024
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 9: Well that and that like, I'm glad you asked that

1025
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 9: because with a lot of Alaskan issues. There's a big

1026
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 9: disconnect between understand like what some of the details and

1027
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 9: context of what goes on up there versus what the

1028
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 9: general sure outside as we call.

1029
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: It, that's another term, the outside.

1030
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, like I'm a like, I'm a stranger in a

1031
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 9: strange land right now.

1032
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: I saw their day that this country has. I'll tell

1033
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: my buddy Danny who's from Hawaii, Danny Bolton. I was

1034
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: telling them that this country hasn't effectively integrated Hawaiians and

1035
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: Alaskans yet because they're so bad. They're so bad at

1036
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: lower forty eight yard there, like, I don't give me

1037
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: the state that borders Illinois, I don't. I don't know.

1038
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, well I would be at that point if my

1039
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 9: kids weren't learning some geography.

1040
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: Story and learn a thing or two about jo They

1041
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: got this.

1042
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 9: States game that we've been playing, and yeah, luckily as

1043
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 9: a reference map. So anyway, so that's what a hard

1044
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 9: park versus soft park. Then you have wildlife refuges, which

1045
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 9: are in all all the parks and preserves are managed

1046
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 9: by the National Park Service. The US Fish and Wildlife

1047
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 9: Service manages refuge lands. And there's a ship pile of those.

1048
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: About thirteen percent of the state, and that's been an

1049
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: issue we've spent a bunch I'm on covering over the years.

1050
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: Is the whip saw of the whip saw of the

1051
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: Feds overriding states wildlife management practices on refuge land ye

1052
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: meaning refuge and yeah, the whip saw of the Feds saying, well,

1053
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna, we're gonna take away management practices you have

1054
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 1: traditionally exercised on portions of your land, like Obama brought

1055
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: it in, Trump brought it out.

1056
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 9: That was the whole.

1057
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: The most Yeah, it was.

1058
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 9: It was like, it's such a yeah, so steer me

1059
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:40,959
Speaker 9: back to sheep.

1060
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: But this is all essential to understand this whole thing,

1061
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: which is a really complicated but interesting thing that I think.

1062
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: Remember earlier, I was saying, your kids are gonna hear

1063
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: a lot more about the dams and on the Columbia

1064
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: than you will, because your kids are probably gonna see

1065
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: a lot some of those dams come out. If you're listening. Now,

1066
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: that's just my crystal balling. My crystal balling is you're

1067
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: going to see that that what Tyler is talking about

1068
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: in Alaska is going to become more and more of

1069
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: an issue in the American West and elsewhere. Yeah, meaning

1070
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: this like this sort of going from an ethnic standpoint,

1071
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: who has access to.

1072
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 9: You know well, and initially, you know when I was

1073
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 9: I was actually talking with Wayne about this the other

1074
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 9: day when they were first drafting a nilka, you know,

1075
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 9: because a nilka brings in subsistence use. Ye, And initially

1076
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 9: it was I Wayne said, initially the language was race

1077
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 9: oriented for subsistence use. And then they're not in our

1078
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 9: in our modern world like we that's not okay. And

1079
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 9: so they basically the primitive like search and replace with

1080
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 9: a location based or where you know where you live.

1081
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 9: So the funny story, I I actually was listening to

1082
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 9: that episode where you guys were talking about this, the

1083
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 9: latest back and forth.

1084
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 5: Uh.

1085
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 9: I was listening to it while I was sitting in

1086
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 9: a blind in Alberta over a bait pile, waiting for

1087
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 9: a pack of wolves. And I was interrupted by a

1088
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 9: pack of wolves that showed up. And despite my you know,

1089
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 9: my my delusions of being a frank laser, I only

1090
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 9: hit two of them. But uh so, the one thing

1091
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 9: you talked about the administration, the administrations I think do

1092
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 9: have something to do with it. But I think that

1093
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 9: it's more of a factor of what people in place

1094
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,760
Speaker 9: at the agencies in Alaska are restricted from or allowed

1095
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 9: to do by an administration. Like I don't think Joe

1096
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 9: Biden's a mastermind, like yeah, decide there, like.

1097
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm den digging, you know, he's not like personally.

1098
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 9: No, no. And but what it is is I think, well,

1099
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 9: in this case, it was the back of the back

1100
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 9: and forth is just exhausting. But you know when under

1101
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 9: under the Obama bomb administration, it was all preserve National

1102
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 9: Park Service and US Fish and Wildlife Service managed lands

1103
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 9: and then it got reversed, and then this time I

1104
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 9: believe it was just the Park Service pushing it. But

1105
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 9: I think that's a matter of just the Park Service saying, look,

1106
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 9: we can get away with this right now, because they

1107
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 9: generally and I know there's a lot of good people

1108
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 9: work for the federal agencies to take with the grain

1109
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 9: of salt, but there's the axis of evil of sorts.

1110
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 9: The Park Service is kind of the most restrictive or

1111
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 9: worst one when it comes to allowing hunter access, and

1112
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 9: they've got a long history of let's say, managing to

1113
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 9: for minimum human interference with the landscape is like a

1114
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 9: politically correct way to put it, I think, And so

1115
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 9: they do that through regulation, you know, and some of

1116
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 9: it has you know, there's stuff you'd see in US

1117
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 9: Fish and Wildlife. But the key is, I think it depends.

1118
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 9: It's more depending on the people that are in place

1119
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 9: in different positions at these agencies in Alaska than an

1120
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 9: administration telling them.

1121
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: But there is a there is a real trickle down

1122
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: because the heads of these agencies are appointed by the administration.

1123
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 9: The Department, the Department of Interior, you know, Secretary of

1124
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 9: the Interior has does have a lot to do with it,

1125
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 9: and they'll know. I'm sure there's something.

1126
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: In the head of the US Fish and Wildlife Service,

1127
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.

1128
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 9: So in this all, this whole like appointed position thing

1129
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 9: trickles down to the Federal Subsistence Board and the issues

1130
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 9: like we're dealing with with them.

1131
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: But we're gonna get into that.

1132
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, So that's where.

1133
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: But you got to understand that this is great. Don't

1134
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: don't be embarrassed about the level of detail because it

1135
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: has a very complicated wildlife manage thing and it's educational.

1136
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 9: Like sometimes I have to just take a break from

1137
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 9: it because it's it's just depressing an entire to keep

1138
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 9: up with all of it. It's and that's part of

1139
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 9: the tough thing about it. Like the fight is you can't.

1140
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 9: You can't, like it's too much for any one person

1141
00:58:58,720 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 9: to keep up with.

1142
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 7: Like speaking of the fight, is this like while all

1143
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 7: this is going on, like is Alaska fishing games perspective? Like, man,

1144
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 7: this is just like not a fight we can win

1145
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 7: like that it's not.

1146
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 9: Worth like they're they're trying, you know, like I think

1147
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 9: there are some I'm not wearing specifics of them, but

1148
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 9: there are, Like I know they have like lawsuits and

1149
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 9: they're like that's their only recourse, right, but their position

1150
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 9: is that it's illegal what the Feds are doing, that

1151
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 9: the state has title to all the wildlife and the

1152
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 9: responsibility for managing it. And it's just to me, looking

1153
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 9: at as each one of these federal closures rolls out,

1154
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 9: it just to me, it doesn't add up. And like

1155
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 9: we can get into that too, but like the A

1156
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 9: plus B equill see like does not equal see.

1157
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get to the get to the moves that

1158
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: are happening around doll sheep, so doll sheep, but also

1159
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: get into the you know, there's the issue of severe winners,

1160
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: severe winners, low numbers. But then there's also the suspicion

1161
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: that that's being there's also the suspicion that that's being

1162
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: like exploited for political game.

1163
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 9: I think it absolutely is, but so doll sheet and like,

1164
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 9: you know, backing up into the doll sheet management, I

1165
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 9: did recently get to go to a presentation kind of

1166
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 9: on the status of everything and some of the history

1167
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 9: by one of our current cheap research biologists. He you know,

1168
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 9: that he laid out the history of since you know,

1169
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 9: since the data was being recorded of cheap hunter numbers

1170
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 9: and harvest. Harvest is basically the only hard data like

1171
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 9: that we could find in a lot of those years

1172
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 9: because it was before surveys, and surveys is another is

1173
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 9: another interesting kind of sidebar to that. But so cheap

1174
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 9: have had a lot you know, the like cariboos especially,

1175
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 9: they'll have population swings or any other big game animal

1176
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 9: in a like relatively natural state, their populations oscillate and

1177
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 9: sheep are very sensitive to weather conditions. They can't they

1178
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 9: don't dig for their food in the snow, so they're

1179
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 9: they're very dependent on wind blown slopes for their feed

1180
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 9: in the especially late winter, and populations have been like

1181
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 9: you know, there was a big crash in the third

1182
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 9: I think the thirties, and there's been isolated just total crashes.

1183
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 9: In nineteen ninety. There's an interesting diagram he gave of

1184
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 9: showing the uh, the number of sheep and sheep hunters climbing, climbing,

1185
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 9: climbing basically to double what it is now of harvests

1186
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 9: and sheep hunters. Wasn't really yeah, I mean it was

1187
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 9: well in this year. The last two years have been

1188
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 9: really low harvests, but uh, you know, the numbers climb, climb,

1189
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 9: climb of hunters and harvest. And then nineteen ninety it

1190
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 9: just like there was a huge crash in the central

1191
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 9: Alaska Range in nineteen ninety.

1192
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: Oh, and you'll see that sheep population crash reflected in

1193
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: the harvest now and in participation as well.

1194
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, for sure, Like now there's there's half the

1195
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 9: sheep hunters participating now than there was like three or

1196
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 9: four years ago, and it was half the sheep or no, yeah,

1197
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 9: I mean it's the numbers have taken a hit. So

1198
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 9: the winters between twenty twenty two, so twenty twenty, twenty

1199
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 9: twenty one, and then the following winter both had like

1200
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 9: real like pretty state wide tough condition winter conditions and

1201
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 9: it hit hammered on a lot of sheet populations. And

1202
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 9: it's not it's not great news, like they're the sheet

1203
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 9: populations are down pretty much statewide, and.

1204
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: There's there's an additional there's an additional irritant about this

1205
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: as you're talking about the way populations can recover, but uh,

1206
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: it takes ten years ago trophy, Well, yeah, yeah, you

1207
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's it's like takes I mean,

1208
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: you you take a white tail buck, you can have

1209
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: a smoker white tail buck in four years. Yeah, but

1210
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: it's it's a slow process show.

1211
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,439
Speaker 9: And you know, and the way, you know, the full

1212
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 9: curl look under what we'd call full curl management, you know,

1213
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 9: whereas a ram is legal to kill once he's full

1214
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 9: curl or eight years old, and there's some other criteria,

1215
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 9: but basically eight year old rams are at the time

1216
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 9: in their life when they become dominant and take over

1217
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 9: most of the breeding, and then their mortality just shoots

1218
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 9: through the roof once they're eight Steve has said it

1219
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 9: at their and then they're dead. Basically once they turn eight,

1220
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 9: they're on borrowed time though.

1221
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's no, like there's no like old man period. No, No,

1222
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: it's like on top of your game if you like,

1223
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: if it'd be like if dudes died at like thirty eight.

1224
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,439
Speaker 9: I just turned thirty eight, so I yeah.

1225
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 7: So Tyler, like, with these cheap declines, is there anyone

1226
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 7: like pointing finger at a finger at hunter harvest as

1227
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 7: any kind of impact or is that like not?

1228
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 9: So that's yes and no, yes and no. So that

1229
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 9: that does play into some of the excuses used for

1230
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 9: closing these areas. And they're like some areas got hit

1231
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 9: harder than others in some areas already have been experiencing

1232
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 9: a ton of pressure compared soul like for the amount

1233
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 9: of hunters that are out there, Like, yeah, there's fewer

1234
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 9: legal rams running around, you know what Wayne Heimer the

1235
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 9: fishing game, Like all those biologists they and they are

1236
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 9: doing studies right now. Start they started a study this

1237
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 9: year to compare a hunted area versus a non hunted

1238
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 9: area that are basically side by side to compare this

1239
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 9: ram mortality. So some of these people are taking Geist's

1240
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 9: theory and what Heimer kind of verified that if you

1241
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 9: remove all the mature rams from the landscape. As you know,

1242
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 9: we're in Heimer's study area in central Lascarens during the

1243
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 9: three quarter curl days, like there was not any full

1244
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 9: curl rams running around really, and they observed like a

1245
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 9: higher mortality in younger rams, understandably because they did more.

1246
01:04:55,680 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 9: They're more disorganized, they're less you know, less Uh well,

1247
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 9: I don't even know that they're less able to cope

1248
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 9: with the circumstance the breeding, because the older rams tip

1249
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 9: off pretty pretty quickly too. But there, you know, nobody's

1250
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 9: buying it, you know. And the position is that hunting

1251
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 9: under a full curl reg regulation has zero impact on

1252
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 9: that recovery has zero impact. And even Heimer stuff showed

1253
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 9: it because they went from three quarter curl to know,

1254
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 9: with a lot of resistance, to seven eighths curl, which

1255
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 9: was kind of a compromise between three quarters and full

1256
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 9: and then they moved a full curl. And then you know,

1257
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 9: people were afraid that you make these restricts, these restrictions,

1258
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 9: there's gonna be a lot fewer harvestable rams. Well, after

1259
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 9: a few years, boom, then you're at a different level

1260
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 9: and it's a lot healthy in like this. I've only

1261
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 9: ever known that world during the full curl Yeah, me too,

1262
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 9: the full Curl era. You know, it's and I still

1263
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 9: kind of think of myself as a pretty young sheep hunter.

1264
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 9: I've been doing it for twenty years. Every year and

1265
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 9: I just feel every year I feel like there's more

1266
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 9: I got to learn about them. But uh so the

1267
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 9: hunt like it's in the federal side. People will argue,

1268
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 9: which I'll get into that. So you have the Federal

1269
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 9: Subsistence Board, which I think is kind of the more

1270
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 9: they get, the more the box has opened up and

1271
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 9: they can and you know, people are seizing these opportunities.

1272
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 9: So the Northwest art at Caribou Herd, I don't know

1273
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 9: if you guys have talked about that, that closure, which

1274
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 9: that's a closure that doesn't make any sense. They closed

1275
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 9: it to non locals because and that's a whole other

1276
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 9: layered thing. They closed it as non local hunters because.

1277
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: It's basically like a quadrant of the state.

1278
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, huge huge. I think they didn't get it

1279
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 9: in the northern twenty unit twenty six, but a huge area.

1280
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 9: So they they we've on it.

1281
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've on a carribo that are closed now.

1282
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, the uh, the excuse was because the population is

1283
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 9: in decline, and it hit that, you know, their survey

1284
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 9: conveniently with a margin of error or the degree of certainty.

1285
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 9: The survey hit it on just under two hundred thousand animals,

1286
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 9: which a whole other entity called the work you know

1287
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 9: that Northwest Artcurred Working Group has in their kind of

1288
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 9: they have like a rubric for different management levels and

1289
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 9: intensity of management and suggestions. They're just like a consultation

1290
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 9: group made up of a lot of different parties that

1291
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 9: can make recommendations for management. They don't have management powers,

1292
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 9: but so it hit this two hundred thousand level and

1293
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 9: you're getting proposals from this you know, regional council that

1294
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 9: makes recommendations to the Federal Subsistence Board, which it's like

1295
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 9: a it's like a carbon copy sort of of the

1296
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 9: States model where they have regional Advisory account committees. These

1297
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 9: ones are councils. So they get this proposal to and

1298
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 9: they've happened, but they get this proposal to close the

1299
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 9: area to non local hunters because you know, they cite

1300
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 9: because the herds in decline. You so in theory, you

1301
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 9: know a reason would be to recover numbers, and because

1302
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 9: they assert that non local hunters are impacting and diverting

1303
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 9: the caribou's migration, which I wrote a story on this.

1304
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 9: I talked to the National Park Service biologists who did

1305
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 9: a lot of this study up there, and he said,

1306
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 9: there's no evidence to support it. And the driver, you know,

1307
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 9: if you learn anything about caribou herds and like a

1308
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 9: lot of animals, the drivers of populations are the mature cows.

1309
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 9: You know, mature cows have calves and caf recruitment. Those

1310
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 9: are the two most important things. So non local hunters

1311
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 9: kill about three hundred bulls per year, whereas they estimate

1312
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 9: they don't know, they estimate subsistence harvest at about like

1313
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 9: ten to fourteen thousand animals, which you know, like that

1314
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 9: subsistence resource is important. Don't get me wrong, I'm not

1315
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 9: knocking that, but just the equation doesn't make sense. And

1316
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 9: so they they and but they close it to non locals.

1317
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 9: They don't even make any recommendations to stop shooting cows

1318
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 9: and caps. So it just doesn't add up.

1319
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: It's like that you're like, you you're taking advantage of

1320
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: the situation to remove an annoyance. Yeah, that has nothing

1321
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 1: to do with the resource.

1322
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 9: And you can you know, I could get my ten,

1323
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 9: I could get My life would be better.

1324
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: My life would be better if there weren't non locals here.

1325
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, and this and this is getting a little and

1326
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 9: I understand those sentiments, and they exist in a lot

1327
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 9: of places.

1328
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: Out there, but it's ubiquitous.

1329
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 9: You could get a little tinfoil hattie. But I've been

1330
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 9: told by guys like this that have been around, had

1331
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 9: seen this whole process that you know, you're not crazy

1332
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 9: to suspect that there's some interplay between the agencies and

1333
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:46,560
Speaker 9: these committees and crafting these proposals. Oh you know, so

1334
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 9: and it gets worse. So the Caribo one happens, then,

1335
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 9: you know, all of a sudden cheaper in trouble.

1336
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 1: So just to just to put like a very clear

1337
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: point on it, just the people that are follow who

1338
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: don't follow this issue, you're normally chinliehud. Okay, if you

1339
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: look at a normal wildlife resource, like from a lower

1340
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,679
Speaker 1: forty eight perspective, you look at a normal wildlife resource,

1341
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,560
Speaker 1: you might imagine the pie being divided up between what

1342
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 1: we'll call what they call recreational hunters and fishermen and

1343
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: commercial use. Okay, so let's say we're gonna go out

1344
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 1: to the East coast. We're gonna go to the East coast,

1345
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: Chesapeake Bay. We're gonna look at like some fishery. It'd

1346
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: be that there's the recreational harvest and the commercial harvest right,

1347
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,759
Speaker 1: and those two on some resource, and those two entities

1348
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: are gonna be at odds. They're gonna be just generally

1349
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: gonna be arguing over who gets a bigger piece of

1350
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: the pie. Right, the commercial the recreational industries are gonna fight, like,

1351
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: we want more fish. You're messing up our fishing. You're

1352
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: inflicting our ability to make a livelihood. This tension always

1353
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: exists all over the place. In the in the Rocky

1354
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: Mountain less than lower forty eight, there's there's constant tension

1355
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: between you know, it's not ugly necessarily, but there's tension

1356
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: between outfitter okay and and non outfitted. So it's a

1357
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,560
Speaker 1: it's a minor issue. But there's outfitters who are like,

1358
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 1: we would like to have more permits so we can

1359
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: do more guiding and have more clients. And then non

1360
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: guided hunters are saying, we would like to have greater

1361
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: animal tag allocation go to us and not peeling off

1362
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: so much for the guides or the conflict could be.

1363
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 1: We have you have state residents and non residents, and

1364
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 1: that's the sort that's attention, meaning state residents. Like you're

1365
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: giving you're letting too many non residents come in and hunt.

1366
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 7: It's impacting side x percent of tags for non residents.

1367
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, like why I've been applying for a sheep tag

1368
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: for thirty years? How could a non resident get a

1369
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:57,760
Speaker 1: sheep tag? And when I live here, I never got

1370
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: a sheep tag. All these sources attention. In Alaska, you

1371
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:05,560
Speaker 1: have this additional layer of subsistence, so you know, the

1372
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 1: same way you have like local non local, commercial, recreational,

1373
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: you have this element of people that live in rural

1374
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 1: areas having a right to subsist and having a different

1375
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: set of regulations that would govern your fishing practices. For instance,

1376
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: where Seth Seth and I have shacks in southeast Alaska

1377
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: and we fish under a set of regulations, and but

1378
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 1: if if we were to move there and live there

1379
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: and make that our legal address, we would also fish

1380
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,799
Speaker 1: under completely different right. We can set long lines for hal.

1381
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 2: Of it right there and keep species that we can't keep.

1382
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: We set like one hundred hooks, skate for black cod whatever,

1383
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: and right now you're allowed eighty year, but you could

1384
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: set you have unlimited black cod harvest if you live there.

1385
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: So it's just this added source attention. Oh yeah, for sure,

1386
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 1: and like like like fighting over the pie.

1387
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's you know, as an example of how

1388
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 9: silly some of it is, Like it has nothing to

1389
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 9: do with how much wild game you eat. And I

1390
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 9: will you know, I say again, like I think protecting

1391
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 9: with your income, protecting the subsistence lifestyle and and just

1392
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 9: the ability to hunt is important. But I can't hunt

1393
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 9: spring waterfowl. I live right outside of Fairbanks. If I

1394
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 9: move thirty miles down the road, I can hunt spring

1395
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 9: waterfowl when they're all nice and fully plumed up. And

1396
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 9: it's a sort of subject. And I'm not even a

1397
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 9: duck hunter.

1398
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,759
Speaker 1: So at high level, like many issues, at high level,

1399
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 1: the sort of bifurcation of subsistence and non subsistence makes

1400
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 1: you get it makes tons of sense. But like anything,

1401
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: when you get down into like like, hm, you mean

1402
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: so if I move across the road, yeah, yeah, literally,

1403
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: and all I could make I could make I could

1404
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: have a salary of a million dollars a year and

1405
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: I could move across the road, I'd be subsistence.

1406
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 9: Yep, yeah, exactly.

1407
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 1: But I'm dirt poor on this side of the road

1408
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 1: and I'm not subsistent.

1409
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 9: No, that's exactly how it is. And to complicate that, well,

1410
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 9: there's what FEDS consider subsist us and state. The state

1411
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 9: considers all residents of subsistence user, but they generally are.

1412
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 9: Their goal is to satisfy subsistence needs of state residents

1413
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 9: through the sport, hunting and fishing regulations. So they closed this, uh,

1414
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 9: the you know, the the northwest start occurred, you know,

1415
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 9: Unit twenty three for cariboo and moose. It's not completely closed.

1416
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: Way, my big, big wrap up, my big explanation. Sorry, no, no, no,

1417
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: you brought me back on track. Okay, So, but like

1418
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 1: I mean thousands of square miles right, oh.

1419
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I can't remember. At one point I added

1420
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 9: it up. It was like sixty million acres.

1421
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: Or something like that. No, so, meaning so you're what

1422
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 1: you said.

1423
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,599
Speaker 9: They closed it for moose too, Yeah, for for moose, moose,

1424
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 9: and caribou for non locals during Basically it's not year

1425
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 9: round because like I in the winter could go up

1426
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 9: there and hunt caribou, but during the time when everybody

1427
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 9: is wanting to travel up there and hunt.

1428
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 3: In the fall.

1429
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah and uh, and they say moose are on the decline.

1430
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 9: Decline out there. But in you know, carent had had

1431
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 9: given me an article by Seth Seth Cantner, who I

1432
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 9: think he lives up on the Kobuk and he has

1433
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 9: you know, has some books and like he offers like

1434
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 9: his perspective and you hear this a lot, and like

1435
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 9: the anecdotal stuff and observations over time I think are important.

1436
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 9: But you also have to look at the a larger context.

1437
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 9: You know, me and me in an outsider and if

1438
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 9: you know, I can understand someone living there who for

1439
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 9: years and years and years, there's thousands of caribou came

1440
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 9: right through this down this trail every single year. We

1441
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 9: could count on it, like I would feel very strongly

1442
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 9: about it too. But being on the outside, not really

1443
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 9: having any any fingers in that pie, you look at

1444
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 9: historically like, well that heard wasn't always that big, and

1445
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 9: in nineteen seventy five there was only seventy five thousand

1446
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 9: of them. I think it was the roughly date and

1447
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 9: number that I looked at because there you look at that.

1448
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 9: That working group has some newsletter publications and you can,

1449
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 9: you know, pretty easily skim valuable like details from that

1450
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 9: and some of the historical context. But they you know,

1451
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 9: they even have in some of their newsletters they have

1452
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 9: quotes from some of the elders that talk about remembering

1453
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 9: when there was no caribou out there and they just

1454
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 9: had reindeer, and then the caribou started showing up and

1455
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 9: pulling the reindeer. They would start shooting all the caribou

1456
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 9: that came because they didn't want to take the reindeer

1457
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 9: with them, and they did. But there there never used

1458
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 9: to be caribou come out there, at least for you know,

1459
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 9: X period of time. There never there never was caribou

1460
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 9: that came out on Seward Peninsula like that out of

1461
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 9: that herd. And the Park Service biologist Kyle Jolie I

1462
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 9: think was his name, he told me that, you know,

1463
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 9: because I kind of posed the questions like, well, what

1464
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 9: do you what do you think when you're or me?

1465
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 9: And he and he was very tactful in how he answered,

1466
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 9: not like definitively, but just giving me some context. You know,

1467
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 9: I'm like, well, do you know half expecting it to

1468
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 9: be climate change, because that's what a lot of people

1469
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 9: will will dive on to, you know, as you guys

1470
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:03,799
Speaker 9: have been talking about that's the popular monetarily beneficial culprit.

1471
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: But it's it's a catch all and is deserving of

1472
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,560
Speaker 1: a conversation. It is, it's become a catch all to

1473
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: explain everything, and it doesn't explain It doesn't always explain everything.

1474
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 9: No, And the way he put it was he said,

1475
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 9: think about this, he said, you know, he didn't blame

1476
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,639
Speaker 9: climate change. He said, think about this that herd changes

1477
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,640
Speaker 9: in size and number said. When a caribou herd, you know,

1478
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 9: grows exponentially, it expands its range. When it shrinks, the

1479
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 9: range change the range, and migration patterns shrink too. So

1480
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 9: that's just you know, in a lot of these issues,

1481
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 9: like the overall length of time, you look at and context.

1482
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 9: And I've learned a ton just by you know, reading

1483
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 9: about some of the cheap, cheap management history. But so

1484
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 9: this closure happens, and then we have a couple of

1485
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,519
Speaker 9: bum winners and the sheep are hurting, and then up

1486
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 9: pops another proposal, which you know, I want to be

1487
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 9: cared because I don't know the guy, and I don't

1488
01:17:58,520 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 9: want to be careful. I want to be careful, not

1489
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 9: to not to just sling mud. But on paper, the

1490
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 9: Central Brooks Range closure is the result of one guy

1491
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,560
Speaker 9: and he, you know, he's kind of a leader of

1492
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 9: a small community, and they're in Wiseman, and their council

1493
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 9: wrote this proposal that is not scientific at all. Basically says,

1494
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 9: I drive the road and all the and all the

1495
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 9: mature rams are gone. There's nothing left. And you know,

1496
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 9: and I think they have they have a pretty you know,

1497
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 9: it's right next to gates of the Arctic National Park

1498
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 9: and this is this is bordering hard Park National park

1499
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 9: land where only subsistence hunters can hunt. And I don't

1500
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 9: think there's not very many of them that do it,

1501
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 9: only like in isolate like at an Anactotic pass. You know,

1502
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 9: I'm sure those guys, those guys subsistence hunt some sheep.

1503
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 9: But and so they formalize this proposal, and the Federal

1504
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 9: Subsistence Board passes it, closing the whole Central Brooks Range

1505
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,560
Speaker 9: on federal land. There's some small state land portions, but

1506
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 9: most of it just yeah, it locked up. And the

1507
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 9: only reason given is, you know that the sheep are

1508
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 9: on the brink and they need you know, we surveyed them,

1509
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 9: which the state and the FEDS do their aerial surveys differently,

1510
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 9: like that's a whole entire another subject. But they close

1511
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 9: all this up, which includes I mean, it's it's the

1512
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 9: most like user friendly kill. I killed my first sheep

1513
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 9: hiking in up there on that path in two thousand

1514
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 9: and four when I was eighteen, and so they closed

1515
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 9: like the best like walk in access opportunity. It's not

1516
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 9: that walking guys are killing a bunch of sheep. The

1517
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 9: success rates low just in general, and there's some areas

1518
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 9: that people will fly in that kind of within that

1519
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 9: you see, yeah, yeah, you know, but the opportunity is there.

1520
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 9: And they also close the five the corridor, which extends

1521
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 9: five miles on either side of the Dalton Highway. That's

1522
01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 9: bow hunting only. And that's the heart of what like

1523
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 9: where he's talking about up there's no legal there's no

1524
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 9: mature rams left at least, you know, that's the way

1525
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 9: his proposal.

1526
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 7: Reach for context like how many sheep, how many dollars

1527
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 7: sheep are in Alaska, and how many get killed by

1528
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 7: hunters a year?

1529
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 9: So I couldn't I don't know that the like current

1530
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 9: and historic population estimates, but I can tell you at

1531
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 9: up to a peak in nineteen ninety, I want to say,

1532
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 9: it was like a couple thousand sheep getting killed a year,

1533
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 9: and then it's gone down to this year. They don't

1534
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 9: know that it's even gonna break four hundred.

1535
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:36,080
Speaker 1: Are you serious?

1536
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 9: Yeah? But with that and you know, and it's been

1537
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 9: like the situation is not great. It's it's a hard

1538
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 9: time to be a sheep hunter in Alaska. But the

1539
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 9: relationship between there's a linear relationship between the number of

1540
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 9: hunters and the heart and the number of harvest, you know,

1541
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 9: uh Wayne, in my discussion with him the other day,

1542
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 9: he talked to one of the Wildlife troopers who you know,

1543
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,799
Speaker 9: take it with a grain of salt, but their impression

1544
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 9: was that the success rate in Unit twenty A, which

1545
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 9: is Central Alaska Range, you know, it's it's a very

1546
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 9: hard hunted area, that the success rate was relatively pretty

1547
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:13,679
Speaker 9: much like normal, you know, and the and the age

1548
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 9: structure of rams that's been getting killed is the same

1549
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 9: as it always has been.

1550
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: My brother who lives in alask and he likes to

1551
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: hunt sheet he said, when you look at harvest data.

1552
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,280
Speaker 1: A lot of times it tells you more about the

1553
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: weather than it does sheet.

1554
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 9: But absolutely it can.

1555
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 1: Meaning you know, we've hunted up there in years when

1556
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: you just have these massive systems that just make poor visibility.

1557
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 9: Oh yeah.

1558
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: And he's like, you'll you'll then see that reflected, and

1559
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: you'll see that reflected, and how many rams are getting

1560
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 1: no for sure broad and you can't and you look

1561
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: and you want to try to draw these sort of

1562
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: like population trends out of things that could have been

1563
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: like it was cloudy.

1564
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, or it was smoky, yeah, Like we had a

1565
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 9: lot of late wildfires this year and a lot of

1566
01:21:54,720 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 9: country was smoky. But over time, like the data, it's

1567
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 9: pretty consistent. It's not like an enormous amount of younger

1568
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 9: rams are getting clipped off or sub legal rams, Like

1569
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 9: the percentages are all pretty much in line with what

1570
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 9: they have been historically.

1571
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: Do you think it would make it all if the

1572
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:18,560
Speaker 1: stuff that is getting closed to if the stuff is

1573
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:24,640
Speaker 1: getting closed to hunters, do you think it'd make it

1574
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 1: like this discussion of moot point, if it actually if

1575
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 1: sheep numbers improved, then they actually opened this landscape back

1576
01:22:31,280 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 1: up again, or do you think this is just like

1577
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 1: a play, and that's how it is now.

1578
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 9: I think it's a play. I think theoretically if it

1579
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 9: in most sheep hunters, any serious sheep hunter, if there

1580
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 9: was strong evidence to show that, hey, if we stop

1581
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 9: hunting these sheep right now, we're gonna like the population

1582
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 9: is gonna recover quicker now that and you get into it,

1583
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 9: like you have to, you have to kind of define

1584
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 9: what you're talking about.

1585
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: Because because they are still hunting.

1586
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, because well because talking to talking to a biologist

1587
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 9: whose interest is like maximum sustainable yield, you know, just

1588
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 9: wanting to have huntable populations and looking out for the

1589
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 9: well being in general of the of the sheep as

1590
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 9: a whole. He's gonna be talking about one thing. The guy,

1591
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 9: you know, the one of like the some of the

1592
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 9: very hardcore sheep hunters up there that are like intensively

1593
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 9: like self managing sheep they find and have been, you know,

1594
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 9: in spots, have been for years. You know, the guys

1595
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 9: that are saying like I don't want to shoot a

1596
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 9: ram unless he's ten years old and has reached his

1597
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 9: potential or he's genetically inferior, like, you know, they get

1598
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 9: really into it. You know, there may not be with

1599
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 9: a lot of pressure under the full Carol rule. There

1600
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 9: may not ever be a huge abundance of giant rams,

1601
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 9: but there's gonna be huntable rams, and even a lot

1602
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 9: of Like like Wayne and a guy named Joe Want

1603
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,919
Speaker 9: have been doing age recording like age studies for harvested

1604
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,560
Speaker 9: rams to show that in the you know, part of

1605
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 9: this age structure thing that if a rams harvested when

1606
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 9: he was ten, he was legal the year before, and

1607
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,680
Speaker 9: he was legal the year before that to kind of

1608
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,560
Speaker 9: get an you kind it's got an extrapolation, but you

1609
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 9: kind of have an idea of all right, well, how

1610
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 9: many more legal rams were out there after the season

1611
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 9: that they've just been able to pretty much punch holes

1612
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 9: in the argument that we're killing every ram is assusing

1613
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 9: we're clipping them all off.

1614
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: Let me explain thing you said, because this is interesting too.

1615
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 1: A RAM can become legal, So in the general management

1616
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 1: area is a ram can be legal three ways. He

1617
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: gets full curl, and what that means is if you're

1618
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 1: looking at him in profile, his horn describes a three

1619
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty degree circle. So like the imagine a

1620
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 1: curled RAMS horn, the tip comes around and appears from

1621
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: a side view to join up to the base, or

1622
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: he's eight years old, and that would be that you

1623
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: count annually because they don't always grow. They don't always

1624
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 1: grow in a tight curl like they can grow in

1625
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,639
Speaker 1: his wide spy or they're never gonna hit full curl

1626
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 1: or not never. But yeah, they'll be eight years old.

1627
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:07,719
Speaker 3: But not full curl.

1628
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: And the only way you know he's eight is there's

1629
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: these things called annually. They have a growth ring. And

1630
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: if you know what you're doing, and you really need

1631
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: to know what you're doing, like to shoot a ram

1632
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 1: off of growth rings, you gotta it's risky, you gotta study,

1633
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 1: You got to look at a lot of sheep and

1634
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:25,600
Speaker 1: really know how to use optics and all that. But

1635
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 1: you can, theoretically, and now that's beyond theoretically, you can

1636
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,759
Speaker 1: count growth rings and kill a ram that's eight years old. Thirdly,

1637
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 1: that ram can can braid off or snap off the

1638
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 1: tips of his horns, and it has to do it

1639
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 1: in a way that there's a thing on a ram's

1640
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: horn called lamb tip, so it's its first year growth.

1641
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 1: It used to not be clearly explained, but it's clearly

1642
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:51,600
Speaker 1: explained in the regulation, it has to grind away or

1643
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 1: snap off that whole tip. If he does it on

1644
01:25:56,240 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: both sides, he's never gonna become full curl. Then he

1645
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: becomes legal. But young ones don't really do.

1646
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 9: That, yeah or yeah, or you can't count on him

1647
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,200
Speaker 9: because you could never fairly judge whether they would have

1648
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:10,600
Speaker 9: been full curl or not. Like there's some slash like

1649
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 9: but yeah.

1650
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 1: Generally, and that's called it double.

1651
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 9: Broomer, and it's you know a lot of times older

1652
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 9: rams will be like that.

1653
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: So so what Tyler's talking about is if you go

1654
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 1: and you look and be like people are shooting full

1655
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 1: curl rams, there's still legal that there's still legal lams

1656
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 1: on landscape. It meaning if you shoot a full full

1657
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: curl and he's and you count his age rings, his

1658
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: growth rings, he's got ten annually, he's been legal and

1659
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: not dead, yeah for two years.

1660
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,400
Speaker 9: And they'll also they'll also measure horn segments to show,

1661
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:43,240
Speaker 9: you know, to show that, hey, this ram has been

1662
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 9: full curl, because you can look at him and judge

1663
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 9: like how long. But yeah, so so he.

1664
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: Slipped through the cracks as they might look at a

1665
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 1: ram and be like he was managing to slip through

1666
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: the cracks as a full curler. Yeah. Yeah, so every

1667
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: ram that's full curls not getting killed.

1668
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 9: No, not not not even remotely. You know, there may

1669
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:02,759
Speaker 9: be on a macro level, there may be this creek

1670
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 9: there's no legal rams in right now. But on a

1671
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 9: large scale, yeah, that that regulation protects that, you know,

1672
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 9: younger age structure, younger rams generally, and uh, you know

1673
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,600
Speaker 9: that like you get some weird sometimes, you know, you

1674
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 9: get a real young ram that just has tremendous growth.

1675
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 9: And I've told myself, I don't want to shoot another

1676
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 9: seven year old ram. But if there's a seven year

1677
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 9: old ram that I think is over forty inches, are

1678
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,799
Speaker 9: probably gonna pop him, I'll make that sacrifice.

1679
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: You're not interested in a seven year old ahead of

1680
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 1: tight That's just.

1681
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 9: That's just legal.

1682
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 7: When uh, when these closures are happening on federal land,

1683
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 7: what what's happening on state land with Alaska fishing game?

1684
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 7: Like are there have they adjusted their management style?

1685
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 9: They're still you know, they're no, their management style is

1686
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 9: the same, and they're like there's different issues that can

1687
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 9: be contentious, you know, like gout, you know, guide a

1688
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 9: different guy out on state land Outfitters are not held

1689
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 9: to it. They're an exclusive area where only they can

1690
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,640
Speaker 9: outfit there. So you get some conflict like that. But

1691
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,560
Speaker 9: the takeaways that that you know in these areas for

1692
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 9: decades that full curl through a lot of big population

1693
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 9: swings and crashes and booms, has shown that it allows

1694
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 9: the sheep to recover back to that healthy level just

1695
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 9: by you know, you may you may, you may have

1696
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,840
Speaker 9: hard hunting for a few years, but you have the

1697
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 9: opportunity to go and harvest a serp like a ram

1698
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:36,639
Speaker 9: that is a surplus to the population, and not feel

1699
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:40,080
Speaker 9: bad about it because you're not You're not having any

1700
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 9: any sensible effect on the population itself.

1701
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 1: I want to hit another point here, which which I

1702
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 1: think is a little bit to the crux of the issue.

1703
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: You've spoken on it a bit, but I'm gonna tee

1704
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,560
Speaker 1: this this comment up by I talk about something that

1705
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 1: happens in our own state here in Montana in the

1706
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 1: early two thousands, around two thousand, there's a region of

1707
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 1: the state, like the state's broken up in these seven

1708
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 1: The state of Montana's broken up into seven regions, and

1709
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,759
Speaker 1: then each region is broken up into all kinds of units,

1710
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 1: so they can they can manage wildlife on a very

1711
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 1: micro level, and he's in you know, a unit. They

1712
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,000
Speaker 1: use the term union district district. Sorry, regions are broken

1713
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: up into district. The district could be like a drainage, right,

1714
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 1: so you have broadly, it's the state of Montana, six

1715
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: hundred and forty six miles east to west. The state's

1716
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: divided into seven regions, and each of those regions has

1717
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 1: dozens of districts. Yeah, sometimes dozens of districts, meaning there's

1718
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 1: micro management occurring. In two thousand, two thousand and one,

1719
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, in Region seven, they were giving

1720
01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 1: out something like thirteen thousand pronghorn tags. Every one of

1721
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 1: those thirteen thousand people that would draw up prong horn

1722
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,879
Speaker 1: tag could buy up to two dough tags pronghorned dotags.

1723
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: So in those years, I was going out pronghorn hunting

1724
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 1: usually with three tags in my pocket. Numbers are down,

1725
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 1: They're not down because the habitat destructure down because of

1726
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:25,120
Speaker 1: weather issues, predation, weather like variables, right, not like not

1727
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 1: like wholesale destruction of habitat. And what is it now,

1728
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: seven thousand, nine thousand, Okay, no one's walking around with

1729
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 1: two dough tags in their pocket. Some number are walking

1730
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 1: around with a dough tag in their pocket, but they've

1731
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 1: cut almost in half the allocation. Now I'm not sitting

1732
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:45,880
Speaker 1: here saying they're stripping my rights. It's like, I have

1733
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: a lot of faith that these allocations are reflective of

1734
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 1: the situation on the ground, Meaning I have state and

1735
01:30:56,200 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 1: I have faith in my state Fishing Game agency that

1736
01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: my state fishing Game agency is doing a a generally

1737
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: great job of counting wildlife, making an assessment about what

1738
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: the harvest rate can be, and doing it. And I

1739
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 1: would look at be like, hey, my prong horn hunting opportunities,

1740
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: you know they've been cut in half, sure, but but go.

1741
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 7: On, Well it's it's easy to look at it and

1742
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 7: be like, well, what they've cut dough tags? Right, So

1743
01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 7: I feel like and general tags in general, the general

1744
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 7: tag is either sex. You can't just go buy do

1745
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 7: go kill those wholesale anymore, which is how you keep

1746
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 7: numbers where you want them, right.

1747
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But what the point I'm making is there's been

1748
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 1: a massive reduction in the amount of prong horn hunting opportunities,

1749
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: but it's reflective of the situation on the ground. Meaning

1750
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 1: if we get like prime conditions and prong horned numbers. Skyrocket.

1751
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 1: I have a lot of faith that tag allocation, well, skyrocket.

1752
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 1: What we're talking about here with this is like is

1753
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,560
Speaker 1: like a The problem here is people don't have that

1754
01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: faith because rather than being like, oh, it's going to

1755
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 1: a draw, it's going to this is going to it's

1756
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:10,680
Speaker 1: just like shutting down huge chunks of ground. Ye, And

1757
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of faith that they're gonna turn

1758
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:14,560
Speaker 1: it back on No's and it winds up being like

1759
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: one of these situations where like as you demonstrate non

1760
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,439
Speaker 1: resident caribou hunters up in that northwest quadrant of the

1761
01:32:19,439 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 1: state killing three hundred bulls or something like that, it's insignificant,

1762
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,560
Speaker 1: meaning someone's looking and they're saying, there's a thing I

1763
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: want to happen. I'm gonna use this. I'm gonna bullshit

1764
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 1: everybody and use this thing I want to happen and

1765
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 1: make a thing I want to happen happen. But I'm

1766
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:40,759
Speaker 1: gonna do it under a dubious justification, meaning I'm gonna

1767
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 1: do it by talking about something other than what I'm

1768
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 1: talking about.

1769
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 9: I think that's exactly what's happening.

1770
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 1: And you don't. It's hard to have faith that that

1771
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: sheep numbers will improve and that five years so now

1772
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna be like welcome back hunters.

1773
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:57,760
Speaker 9: Well and even and it was a two year closure, well,

1774
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,640
Speaker 9: I mean, anything could happen, obviously, but I don't think

1775
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 9: anybody's expecting it to open up because it's not. And

1776
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 9: people hunters tend to, I think, you know, and cheap

1777
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 9: like we tend to want to grab it any solution

1778
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 9: that's going to flip a switch and make and bring

1779
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 9: it back, make it right immediately. And it's not going

1780
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 9: to happen like that. It's going to take a long time.

1781
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 9: But just by the nature of it.

1782
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only way to really find out on the

1783
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 1: issue is the wait and get out of these sort

1784
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:28,759
Speaker 1: of like dull sheep dark ages and have some recovery

1785
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 1: and then stand back and say, okay, but if you're

1786
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:33,760
Speaker 1: looking better, what's going to happen now?

1787
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 9: But I think as far as if you're looking at

1788
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 9: what what we can look at to justify doing this

1789
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:43,960
Speaker 9: or not doing this, We've been through cheap crashes and

1790
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 9: had even even through like more you know, liberal hunting.

1791
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 12: Strategy them and you know, like it just the data

1792
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 12: that we have show in your implies shows whatever you

1793
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 12: want to say, concludes that hunting is just not doesn't

1794
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 12: have an impactful doesn't play an impactful part on the

1795
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 12: overall sheep as a whole.

1796
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, meaning you got you like, when you send a

1797
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 1: hunter into the mountains, that hunter can only get one thing.

1798
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: He can get a full curl ram. Yep, A full

1799
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 1: crew ram is a dead man walking exactly, not the

1800
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: thing that's driving that population.

1801
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 7: The last number I can find is like roughly forty

1802
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:24,560
Speaker 7: thousand sheep. And if they killed four hundred.

1803
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I'm sure it's not right. Yeah, No, it's

1804
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 9: a very small percentage of the sheep population that gets killed.

1805
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 9: And uh so if one guy you know, And this

1806
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 9: is why it's all very suspicious to me, and I

1807
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 9: think there's some cahoots. And my personal opinion is that

1808
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:44,519
Speaker 9: the Federal Subsistence Board had their mind made up before

1809
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 9: they ever even got the proposal. Sure, you know, at

1810
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:52,080
Speaker 9: the recommendation of one guy who's just says I drive the.

1811
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:55,240
Speaker 1: Road, and don't I've read writing about his reports.

1812
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, so it does. It doesn't add up. And you

1813
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 9: want to go a step further. This year twenty twenty three,

1814
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 9: a few days before the season, the Feds surveyed the

1815
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 9: Yukon Charle of the forty Mile Country Tannana Uplands, and

1816
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 9: the Park Service comes out with this announcement that they're

1817
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:19,640
Speaker 9: requesting an emergency closure of the Federal preserve lands on

1818
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:24,280
Speaker 9: the Charlie River in the forty Mile Country. And because

1819
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 9: they're mighty person and it was uh and it was

1820
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 9: a you know, as result before there's sheep, yeah for sheep, honey,

1821
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 9: because they're because their survey numbers were so low. And

1822
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 9: I'll just hint at Wayne Heimer, who's done flowing a

1823
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 9: lot of sheep surveys, and any guy who's flying surveys

1824
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 9: or if you're flying around a cub looking for sheep,

1825
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 9: you are not seeing all the sheep that are there. Wayne,

1826
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 9: like he you know, told me estimates Wayne that in

1827
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 9: his sheep surveys he figured he was seeing at most

1828
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 9: sixty percent of the sheep that were there. So there's

1829
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 9: that tidbit. There's just a lot of hard side of

1830
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 9: a mountain. Yeah, yeah, you know, And they're like I

1831
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:02,560
Speaker 9: can sit at a mount look at a mountain, or

1832
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:04,439
Speaker 9: up a drainage all day and not see a damn thing.

1833
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 9: And at eight o'clock in the evening.

1834
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 6: Boop, sheep, sheep, sheep.

1835
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 5: You know.

1836
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,480
Speaker 9: So it's fallible, but they they do this survey imperfect,

1837
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 9: but it's like the best thing you can do, yeah,

1838
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 9: for sure. And uh so they survey this and you

1839
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,679
Speaker 9: and for people that don't know that Yukon Charlie area

1840
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 9: is kind of it's marginal sheep country. There's spots of

1841
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:27,400
Speaker 9: sheep country and the population is historically like sparse, like

1842
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:30,200
Speaker 9: it's there's been cheap there for as long as anyone

1843
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 9: has known. But they're not like concentrated. It's not like

1844
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 9: the last age.

1845
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:37,639
Speaker 1: You'd think that there weren't. Yeah, I remember being surprised

1846
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 1: with Pilot's pointing and saying, like I saw a ram

1847
01:36:39,880 --> 01:36:41,720
Speaker 1: there one time. That's a bit it had to walk

1848
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:42,679
Speaker 1: through the timber to get.

1849
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 9: There, well, and and that and something to consider when

1850
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,640
Speaker 9: you're saying, you know, you've seen the conclusions they come

1851
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 9: to with this survey. Those sheep are sparse, and they're

1852
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:53,920
Speaker 9: down in the trees a lot, and you just find

1853
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 9: them like talking, you know, I know old timers have

1854
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 9: hunted and flown it for fifty years, and like they're there.

1855
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 9: You'll find them in the weirdest spots. So you have

1856
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 9: all that to consider, but we need to close this area,

1857
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:10,080
Speaker 9: and it averages one point four rams per year killed

1858
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 9: in the entire area.

1859
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:14,680
Speaker 1: Basically, you can they can say they saved that.

1860
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's again like there's nothing and not only not

1861
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 9: only well it is because not only it's an emergency closure,

1862
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:27,080
Speaker 9: not that. I don't believe that they give much about

1863
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 9: public input anyway, other than they have to sit and

1864
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 9: listen to it. Sometimes no public input. They just closed it.

1865
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 1: And it was funny my body flying through that country

1866
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:37,920
Speaker 1: one time, my buddy showed me a spot where he

1867
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:39,040
Speaker 1: picked up two dead heads.

1868
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:39,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, because he.

1869
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:41,719
Speaker 1: Saw all the blood and snow. Yeah, and some wolves

1870
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:43,920
Speaker 1: that killed two rams. It's funny that little incident was

1871
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 1: more rams than hunters killed. Yeah.

1872
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, How it is.

1873
01:37:57,360 --> 01:38:00,680
Speaker 8: How much of an impact I mean this subjec like,

1874
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,200
Speaker 8: do you think wolves are playing on these sheep?

1875
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 9: I think predation is is certainly an impact in fishing

1876
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 9: game is considering how how they do you know, you

1877
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 9: talk to you know, and and one of the things

1878
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:19,040
Speaker 9: like that people ought to keep in mind. They closed

1879
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:21,719
Speaker 9: the fishing game. State fishing game went along with closing

1880
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 9: the entire western half of the Brooks Range a few

1881
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 9: years ago due to you know, they had a weather

1882
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 9: event and sheep were low, and you know, at least,

1883
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:31,760
Speaker 9: you know, you kind of got to take everything with

1884
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 9: a grain of salt. But you talk to some old timers,

1885
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,640
Speaker 9: you talk who remember, well, all the outfitters up there

1886
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:39,719
Speaker 9: used to go airplane the heck out of wolves every spring.

1887
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:42,280
Speaker 9: Whether it was legal or not at the time, they

1888
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:46,160
Speaker 9: just did it. And you know, whether that's the reason

1889
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 9: there was a big boom of sheep out there or not,

1890
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:50,280
Speaker 9: you know, like you can take it for what it's worth,

1891
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 9: but it does play a factor, but it's it's kind

1892
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:58,280
Speaker 9: of a case by case thing. You know, some coyotes

1893
01:38:58,280 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 9: in the Alaska Ranger a big sheep press editor, but

1894
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 9: brad winling our sheep. You know that current research biologist

1895
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 9: talked about a study over a couple of years that

1896
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:11,599
Speaker 9: a guy did observing lambs. One year, the leading cause

1897
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:13,839
Speaker 9: of mortality was drowning because there was a lot of runoff,

1898
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:17,720
Speaker 9: you know, and then the next year it was golden eagles. Yeah,

1899
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 9: you know, so it's it all plays a factor for sure,

1900
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 9: and I think you know, predator control is the one

1901
01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 9: button that could feasibly pushed, although I don't think it

1902
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 9: would in every case, would be would make.

1903
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:32,839
Speaker 1: The difference, It's not necessarily.

1904
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 9: But so they closed. They closed it like a few

1905
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 9: days before the season for basically and there's not even

1906
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:42,600
Speaker 9: an established subsistence sheep hunt in there. So why is

1907
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 9: the subsistence board closing an area that doesn't have a

1908
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,679
Speaker 9: subsistence sheep hunt? They said, for you know, possible future

1909
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 9: subsist you know, just some bullshit reason and the subsistence to.

1910
01:39:52,880 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 1: Keep to keep some aspirational sheep hunter from basically wasting

1911
01:39:57,200 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 1: his time in the area.

1912
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:05,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, you know, and uh and you uh you know, hey,

1913
01:40:05,120 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 9: when I man, I was on a roll, lost my train,

1914
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:09,920
Speaker 9: you're doing so we uh you know, you close this

1915
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 9: area and uh boy, I'll get it. Reminds me of

1916
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 9: a sheep hunting presentation I gave one time where my

1917
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:21,960
Speaker 9: computer quit working. I had, Yeah, it was sweating it then,

1918
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:25,519
Speaker 9: but so where was that we you know, they closed

1919
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 9: this area. So the subsistence board, you might think, oh, well,

1920
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 9: that's like some like democratically elected type of thing. All

1921
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:34,960
Speaker 9: this federal Subsistence Board is the heads of I believe,

1922
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:40,679
Speaker 9: five agencies Park Service, Fission, Wildlife BLM, Forest Service, Bureau

1923
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 9: of Indian Affairs. And then I think it's three people

1924
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:48,560
Speaker 9: that they appoint or someone at interior points. So the

1925
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,400
Speaker 9: voting majority of the Federal Subsistence Board making these decisions

1926
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 9: is just the agencies. It's just them doing what they

1927
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:54,160
Speaker 9: want to do.

1928
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:56,560
Speaker 1: Essentially, this is my this is my last question on

1929
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,439
Speaker 1: this subject, and this is like total gut. Do you

1930
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:04,639
Speaker 1: think it's being driven Do you think it's being driven

1931
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 1: by anti hunting sentiment like what we're seeing in Colorado,

1932
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,799
Speaker 1: what we're seeing in Washington, like by an animal rights agenda,

1933
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:16,120
Speaker 1: or do you think it's being driven by a agenda

1934
01:41:16,320 --> 01:41:19,840
Speaker 1: of uh, I don't want to deal with other people.

1935
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 9: I think I think it's a little bit of both,

1936
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:29,679
Speaker 9: but the UH. And it goes back to this seemingly

1937
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 9: long standing mode of regulating to keep people, like for

1938
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 9: regulating for minimal human use of the landscape. You know,

1939
01:41:39,640 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 9: there was a excuse me, Dave's killer bread coming back

1940
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:47,720
Speaker 9: to get me, Jill you But so like years I

1941
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:50,320
Speaker 9: just an anecdote years ago, I remember one of the

1942
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:53,960
Speaker 9: the refuge manager for Anwar was trying to ban vibrant

1943
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,759
Speaker 9: bootsoles in antwar because they tear up the tundra. Hmm,

1944
01:41:57,760 --> 01:41:59,879
Speaker 9: when the impeliots, it's just still.

1945
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 1: Get Did you get anywhere with that?

1946
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 9: No? But no he did not, but got it.

1947
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like there's like a like a sentiment like that

1948
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 1: that like to look at the landscape and see human

1949
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:15,479
Speaker 1: however ephemeral, yeah, and non permanent, but like to see

1950
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:17,920
Speaker 1: that level of human use is sort of like falls

1951
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 1: outside of what they feel is the best.

1952
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 9: Yeah. I I think that's that's probably the biggest way,

1953
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:26,320
Speaker 9: which would be like a total preservation and it's a preservationist,

1954
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:29,679
Speaker 9: you know. That's why you see kind of a tearing

1955
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 9: of it. You know, the Park Service is the quote

1956
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:35,960
Speaker 9: unquote worst than you know, fish wild life then b

1957
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 9: LM unless you're unless you're a small time minor.

1958
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:45,200
Speaker 1: But but but hunting isn't you know, I don't even

1959
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 1: think like like the kind of hunting we're talking about

1960
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:51,000
Speaker 1: isn't incompatible with like unless you're one hundred percent preservations

1961
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:53,839
Speaker 1: hunting isn't incompatible with the preservations perspective.

1962
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:54,960
Speaker 9: You're preaching to the choir man.

1963
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:56,880
Speaker 1: But but I want, but I want to have time

1964
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:59,600
Speaker 1: to I want to have time to jump into our thing.

1965
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:02,720
Speaker 1: Give me your take. Give me your take on what

1966
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 1: should happen with.

1967
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 9: Anwar as far as the oil drilling stuff.

1968
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:10,160
Speaker 1: Give me your take on how how people in your view,

1969
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:14,559
Speaker 1: how should people sort of conceptualize anwar, and what's your

1970
01:43:14,600 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: take on what should happen in ant war.

1971
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:19,519
Speaker 9: You know, I'm not even convinced at this point that

1972
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 9: that we need to or should drill it. I'm kind

1973
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:27,760
Speaker 9: of somewhere in the middle, you know, kind of undecided.

1974
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 9: I don't see an imminent need to drill it right now.

1975
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 1: So you just you mean, from a national security perspective,

1976
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:37,880
Speaker 1: from economy, oil prices, I think there's I think in Alaska.

1977
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 9: Alaska is a resource state for sure, and there's a

1978
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:44,760
Speaker 9: balance to be struck between development of those resources and

1979
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:50,320
Speaker 9: what we want to keep as untouched or is what

1980
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,960
Speaker 9: we perceive it to be untouched, you know, like the

1981
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:54,880
Speaker 9: Aryan ant war that they you know, is kind.

1982
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:57,000
Speaker 1: Of up for so ant wir just just clarify Arctic

1983
01:43:57,120 --> 01:44:01,000
Speaker 1: National Wildife PRESU And so this there's been a long

1984
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 1: simmering the state.

1985
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:06,360
Speaker 9: People from the state have been pushing to open this

1986
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:08,400
Speaker 9: area ten O two they call it, which was set

1987
01:44:08,479 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 9: aside as for potential oil exploration and drill and eventual drilling.

1988
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 5: And I.

1989
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 9: I don't want to talk out of my ass because

1990
01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 9: I don't remember a lot of the details. But there

1991
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 9: was a book on the creation of ann War and

1992
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 9: how that area was not originally supposed to be part

1993
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:26,680
Speaker 9: of it. It could have been folded in there with

1994
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 9: a nilka. I don't know, but the ten o two area, yeah,

1995
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 9: the ten o two so, and that area was our

1996
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:36,559
Speaker 9: It was completely seismic surveyed in the eighties, like as

1997
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:38,680
Speaker 9: a lot of Alaska people think of Alaska as being

1998
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:42,360
Speaker 9: completely untouched. Man, there's seismic lines running everywhere. Yeah, and

1999
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:50,400
Speaker 9: uh so straight straight yeah, well, excuse.

2000
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:52,280
Speaker 1: Me, Tyler got into a bread seed stuff in his throat.

2001
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:54,519
Speaker 9: It's ironic. We got a cop and then we got

2002
01:44:54,560 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 9: a coffin shaped table here, so as and as uh well,

2003
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:05,479
Speaker 9: my good buddy and hunting partner, I call him doctor

2004
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 9: Frank Schultz. He's not really a doctor, but that's a

2005
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:08,360
Speaker 9: whole nother story.

2006
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 1: He was.

2007
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 9: We recently discussed he would talk to someone who was

2008
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 9: actually I think it was there one of their family

2009
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:17,720
Speaker 9: members were actually participated in this statewide survey. You know,

2010
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 9: seismic survey lines where they in the winter they wait

2011
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 9: for the ground to freeze and drop the dozer blade

2012
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 9: and go ye. But different, different kind of subjects. So

2013
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 9: I think the important thing, whether we end up drilling

2014
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,880
Speaker 9: it or not drilling it, is just to look at

2015
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 9: a little there's a little more context around than what

2016
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:39,280
Speaker 9: the general public knows. You know, you get a lot

2017
01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:41,320
Speaker 9: of or back when it when it was like kind

2018
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:43,120
Speaker 9: of the hot button issue, you get a lot of

2019
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:47,320
Speaker 9: like emotionally driven pictures and sure arguments made to be

2020
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 9: like well, you know, any reasonable person would oppose this,

2021
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:55,080
Speaker 9: but you know they'll they'll say, like the caribou of

2022
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:58,720
Speaker 9: great concern, which they are, but you know, there's these

2023
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:01,439
Speaker 9: theories that it's gonna death to make the porcupine caribou

2024
01:46:01,479 --> 01:46:05,000
Speaker 9: herd if we if we move into that area, well

2025
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:08,680
Speaker 9: there's drill pads like fifty miles away, and the the

2026
01:46:08,840 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 9: data or any like data we could look at fifty

2027
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 9: miles away, or I guess Pruto itself is more farther

2028
01:46:14,920 --> 01:46:17,080
Speaker 9: than that, but right next door. The central art occurred

2029
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:22,680
Speaker 9: exploded during the expansion of prudo bait oil fields in

2030
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:24,599
Speaker 9: the pipeline, and there was a lot of worries. There's

2031
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:26,960
Speaker 9: a lot of worries about what would happen with them.

2032
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 9: I mean they built like sections of the pipeline that

2033
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 9: go underground for Caribo to cross, because that was a

2034
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:34,560
Speaker 9: big concern. They didn't know what they'd never seen anything.

2035
01:46:34,320 --> 01:46:36,200
Speaker 1: Like what they would do with the overhead structure.

2036
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:38,800
Speaker 9: And as you know, time has shown they don't care,

2037
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 9: and they'll in fact like flock to the pipeline and

2038
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:43,400
Speaker 9: a lot of the oil field buildings because the windows

2039
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 9: run under them.

2040
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 1: It's like it's like you almost take it like a

2041
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: like a propaganda photo that came out of that time

2042
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:53,280
Speaker 1: would be Caribou getting in the shade of the pipeline.

2043
01:46:53,320 --> 01:46:57,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, exactly. The love it, you know, and even

2044
01:46:57,320 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 9: even the you know Jim Reardon who wrote Alaska's wolf

2045
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 9: Man and wrote a lot of a lot of stories

2046
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:04,439
Speaker 9: for Outdoor Life over the years. I have the original copy.

2047
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:05,800
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite books of all time.

2048
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 9: Oh me too, It's it's phenomenal. So one of he

2049
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:13,920
Speaker 9: wrote an article kind of pre pipeline, like wondering what

2050
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 9: what the heck's going to happen? Yeah, yeah, it's a

2051
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 9: it was a two part story. I've got the original

2052
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 9: copies of them.

2053
01:47:20,439 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 1: But uh, but the caribou that I mean, if caribou

2054
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 1: did well in prude Obey with the oil, it wasn't

2055
01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 1: because of the oil. It was just because it's a

2056
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:30,200
Speaker 1: cyclical Yeah, I think so, I guess someone could look

2057
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 1: at say it didn't have it didn't have obvious negative

2058
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:38,439
Speaker 1: impacts on an already cyclical thing, and in fact we

2059
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:42,800
Speaker 1: saw the up down cycle continued. Yeah, I think the

2060
01:47:42,920 --> 01:47:45,080
Speaker 1: I think you still saw good peaks, you know.

2061
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think at the very least you could say

2062
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,440
Speaker 9: that that has shown that they're not incompatible.

2063
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2064
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:52,360
Speaker 9: So there's you know, and that's one of the big

2065
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:56,400
Speaker 9: one of the big arguments. And in kind of looking

2066
01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,840
Speaker 9: researching this stuff, I uh, a guy had sent me

2067
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:05,200
Speaker 9: a I think it was Environmental Impacts Impact Environmental Impact

2068
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:10,960
Speaker 9: study by the American Ecological Society, and their assertion was

2069
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 9: that the three D seismic survey that would have to

2070
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:16,240
Speaker 9: happen would be the riskiest part of the whole because

2071
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 9: they've got to roll this equipment around. But they did

2072
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:22,760
Speaker 9: concede that that the environmental regulations for conducting that are

2073
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:26,600
Speaker 9: so strict that they should it should keep you know,

2074
01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:28,880
Speaker 9: some of these things they're worried about happening from happening.

2075
01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 9: And that's another thing that people don't understand quite how

2076
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:36,960
Speaker 9: restrictive the rules are, even in existing oil fields and stuff.

2077
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 9: I haven't worked up there a bunch back in my

2078
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:42,800
Speaker 9: my pipe covering days. I was on jobs up there

2079
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:45,599
Speaker 9: and saw some of it. But a guy put put

2080
01:48:45,640 --> 01:48:48,840
Speaker 9: it to me was pretty good illustration. He said, if

2081
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:50,560
Speaker 9: you're up you know you're up there, and you have

2082
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:52,759
Speaker 9: a half million dollar piece of equipment, and a seagull

2083
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:55,120
Speaker 9: lands and makes a nest on there, you can't touch

2084
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 9: that piece of equipment till that seagull's gone.

2085
01:48:57,600 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.

2086
01:48:58,320 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 9: It doesn't matter if you got to get another one

2087
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:01,680
Speaker 9: shipped up there to use it for the time being,

2088
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:03,719
Speaker 9: it doesn't matter. You can't touch it, you can't interact

2089
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:06,439
Speaker 9: with it. Where's a reasonable person to be like, all right,

2090
01:49:06,479 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 9: sorry about your luck this year, mister Siegell. You know,

2091
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:10,599
Speaker 9: I guess it would be missus seagull.

2092
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 1: But miss.

2093
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,599
Speaker 9: I had to read strange times these days.

2094
01:49:15,680 --> 01:49:18,719
Speaker 1: Did the Willow did the fact that they expanded into

2095
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 1: that Willow oil field? Did that take pressure off of

2096
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:24,679
Speaker 1: the ant war conversation about whether or not to move

2097
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:27,640
Speaker 1: into antwar it may have, you know.

2098
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:29,840
Speaker 9: And I think a lot of the uh, I think

2099
01:49:29,840 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 9: a lot of ant war is just like used for

2100
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 9: political jostling as much as anything. I don't know that

2101
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 9: there's like a very real, like realistic possibility that it's

2102
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:40,960
Speaker 9: gonna happen anytime soon, And I don't know that it's needed,

2103
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:42,160
Speaker 9: you know.

2104
01:49:42,439 --> 01:49:45,080
Speaker 1: So so you feel it's like that argument is chilled

2105
01:49:45,080 --> 01:49:45,559
Speaker 1: out right now?

2106
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:48,080
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, for sure, you know, there's always going to

2107
01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 9: be people that want it, but whether and there's always

2108
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 9: going to people be people who don't want it no

2109
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:57,839
Speaker 9: matter what. But whether it even is like a relevant

2110
01:49:57,880 --> 01:50:01,040
Speaker 9: issue right now, Like I think there's a big it's

2111
01:50:01,080 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 9: a it's a in my opinion, it's kind of a

2112
01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:07,960
Speaker 9: distraction from I think the loss of hunting opportunity that's

2113
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 9: just like cascading throughout the state. Now, I was more

2114
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:12,519
Speaker 9: of an important issue to me.

2115
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I worry about both those things. And the reason

2116
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 1: I worry about them in tandem, and I don't think

2117
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 1: it's like I worry about them both, but I worry

2118
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 1: about them both from the same perspective, is that I

2119
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:30,439
Speaker 1: want there to be as much wildlife on the ground

2120
01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:34,560
Speaker 1: as possible, and I want hunters and anglers to have

2121
01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:41,880
Speaker 1: maximum access to that wildlife. So the restrictions, the sort

2122
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:45,320
Speaker 1: of the seemingly arbitrary kind of conniving restrictions on hunting

2123
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:50,479
Speaker 1: access bothers me, as does the loss of wildlife habitat.

2124
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 5: Ye.

2125
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:53,439
Speaker 1: So if I look at like from my perspective, if

2126
01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:57,679
Speaker 1: I look at a thing where you have a chunk

2127
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:01,240
Speaker 1: of land that's not exploited and it's cordoned off, and

2128
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:04,719
Speaker 1: there's a basic understanding of it being unexploited, even outside

2129
01:51:04,760 --> 01:51:07,679
Speaker 1: of any like super detailed understanding of where the boundary

2130
01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:10,360
Speaker 1: lines and how the boundary lines are drawn and any

2131
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:13,479
Speaker 1: fuzziness about that, I would just look and say, like

2132
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:17,360
Speaker 1: I will look from my perspective and say, theoretically, even

2133
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: though I'm even though I might not understand every nuance

2134
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:22,240
Speaker 1: of every drainage and all that, I would say, if

2135
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:26,560
Speaker 1: there's chunks of ground that aren't touched, I celebrate not

2136
01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 1: touching them.

2137
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:29,599
Speaker 9: Yeah, And that's and that's a logical thing.

2138
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:34,759
Speaker 1: In terms of just maintaining in terms of maintaining wildlife habitat.

2139
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:38,719
Speaker 1: Because however you play, I don't think I like toy

2140
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:42,040
Speaker 1: with the global perspective but I more imagine, like I

2141
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,920
Speaker 1: look sort of my perspective as very American, like like

2142
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:49,640
Speaker 1: the United States of America, right, And of course you know,

2143
01:51:50,240 --> 01:51:54,720
Speaker 1: I pay extra concern around my immediate area, and I

2144
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:56,560
Speaker 1: do a lot of hunting in a particular state. So

2145
01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:59,559
Speaker 1: I look at the wildlife politics in that state. I'm

2146
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:01,760
Speaker 1: not in all asking, but I look at it as

2147
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:04,720
Speaker 1: a place I love. It's part of a country that

2148
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:06,600
Speaker 1: I love. And so I look at a thing like

2149
01:52:06,640 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 1: a wire, I'm like, man, I don't I don't want

2150
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:10,160
Speaker 1: to mess with it. I don't want messic I don't

2151
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:12,080
Speaker 1: want to mess with any of the areas we have

2152
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:17,000
Speaker 1: that aren't developed. Yeah, Like, and it's just it's just

2153
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 1: for me, it's as simple. It's just as simple as

2154
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:24,000
Speaker 1: if there's big chunks of ground that aren't developed. I

2155
01:52:24,040 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 1: just hate to see him developed. Yeah, because I think

2156
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:28,240
Speaker 1: that down the road one hundred years from now, two

2157
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:32,680
Speaker 1: hundred years from now, I won't be around. But when

2158
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 1: looking at when weighing it out, I'm like, two hundred

2159
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:40,680
Speaker 1: years from now, that'll be celebrated like that, that that

2160
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:43,360
Speaker 1: decision of restraint, and you look at like even to

2161
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 1: take something, and I don't want to make too much

2162
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 1: of a point about this. But you take something like

2163
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:53,360
Speaker 1: what wrote what Theodore Roosevelt did when he was creating

2164
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:56,600
Speaker 1: the National force system. He pissed everybody off when he

2165
01:52:56,680 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 1: did the Midnight Forest, which is what twenty some he created.

2166
01:52:59,560 --> 01:53:02,479
Speaker 1: Twenty some that they didn't call him national force at

2167
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:04,519
Speaker 1: a time serves the exact number.

2168
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 10: Uh.

2169
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:08,960
Speaker 1: Here, there was a there was a bill moving through

2170
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:11,120
Speaker 1: Congress that was gonna make it that was gonna strip

2171
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:14,600
Speaker 1: him of an ability to create national forests, and he

2172
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:17,519
Speaker 1: was going to veto it, but he knew sentiment against

2173
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:20,920
Speaker 1: him was so high that if he vetoed it, his

2174
01:53:21,120 --> 01:53:25,719
Speaker 1: veto would be overridden. So they call him the Midnight

2175
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 1: Forest because his ability to create these things would expire

2176
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 1: at midnight. He then goes and creates like twenty four

2177
01:53:32,840 --> 01:53:35,200
Speaker 1: or twenty seven more preserves, and then it wakes up

2178
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:37,080
Speaker 1: in the morning and signs a bill saying he can't

2179
01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:40,280
Speaker 1: do it anymore, and what happens. They carve him on

2180
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:43,639
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore. So I'm just saying, like, like, over long

2181
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 1: periods of time, I think that that that that over

2182
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:53,280
Speaker 1: long periods of time, that that desire to create undeveloped

2183
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:58,640
Speaker 1: areas and protect undeveloped areas is celebrated. But I'm so

2184
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:01,080
Speaker 1: myopic in my intro and so my opic and my

2185
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:03,519
Speaker 1: views that if you do all that and make it

2186
01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:06,720
Speaker 1: that people can't hunt it, I look, it's not a

2187
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:07,439
Speaker 1: win anymore.

2188
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:11,559
Speaker 9: No, I feel, well, yeah you did, but.

2189
01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:13,640
Speaker 1: You threw out the baby with the bath water well

2190
01:54:13,720 --> 01:54:16,800
Speaker 1: and a lot of people. Man, it's a win in

2191
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:21,840
Speaker 1: some like some hazy distant environmental way perhaps, but like,

2192
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:24,439
Speaker 1: it's not the win I'm after. Yeah. The win I'm

2193
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:30,679
Speaker 1: after is access for like access for people who hunt fish.

2194
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, and sometimes that access is going to

2195
01:54:33,200 --> 01:54:34,360
Speaker 9: be tough, but at least you have the.

2196
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:37,120
Speaker 1: Opportunity theoretically whether or not you get, whether or not

2197
01:54:37,200 --> 01:54:39,000
Speaker 1: you go there or not. Like, I don't know. I

2198
01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:43,800
Speaker 1: still I never have hunted the Frank Church. Never hunted

2199
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,840
Speaker 1: the Frank Church, the celebrated wilderness area that we have

2200
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:48,640
Speaker 1: in the lower forty eight, I never hunted there. I

2201
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:51,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if I died. Never hunted there. I

2202
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: like it being there. I would be livid if they

2203
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:56,440
Speaker 1: tried to strip hunting rights from it. But I've never

2204
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:59,080
Speaker 1: been there. Yeah, Tommy, never, you know, It's just like

2205
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:01,720
Speaker 1: I like knowing it's there. Yeah, and it's a win

2206
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 1: that it's there. It's a win that you can hunt it. Yeah.

2207
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:06,080
Speaker 9: I think that's a totally reasonable way to look at

2208
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:09,080
Speaker 9: it too. I think just when and not arguing for

2209
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:11,480
Speaker 9: or against because a lot of these projects, you know,

2210
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:15,800
Speaker 9: these potential projects and whatnot that come up, I'm not

2211
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:18,520
Speaker 9: even necessarily for them or against them, or I kind

2212
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:20,280
Speaker 9: of lean. I lean that way where I don't want

2213
01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 9: to see development that's not necessary or is going to

2214
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:27,320
Speaker 9: be irresponsibly done or what that. But yeah, the uh,

2215
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 9: I feel the same way that what good. You know,

2216
01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:31,720
Speaker 9: not necessarily that it's not good to have that land,

2217
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:33,840
Speaker 9: but if I can't hunt it, or you're taking my

2218
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:38,000
Speaker 9: opportunity to hunt it, so you know, so a few

2219
01:55:38,040 --> 01:55:40,879
Speaker 9: guys can have a private playground understood.

2220
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:43,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was your take on this is kind of

2221
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:45,400
Speaker 1: like another one that sort of went away. What was

2222
01:55:45,480 --> 01:55:47,520
Speaker 1: your take on Pebble Mind? That was the thing that

2223
01:55:47,800 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 1: generated enormous amounts of interest from out from outsiders.

2224
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:52,280
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was huge.

2225
01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:53,960
Speaker 1: How did you sit on that?

2226
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:57,240
Speaker 9: I generally kind I just leaned against it. I didn't

2227
01:55:57,280 --> 01:55:59,760
Speaker 9: have like a firm but it's like, eh, you know,

2228
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 9: it just it seemed like talking to people who live

2229
01:56:02,360 --> 01:56:05,800
Speaker 9: in the area and like have a lot of vested interest,

2230
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:09,040
Speaker 9: like personal interest, it probably was not the right thing

2231
01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 9: to do.

2232
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, but you didn't you didn't view it as

2233
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:14,720
Speaker 1: that this is the thing that will break a last No.

2234
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:18,960
Speaker 1: So now what's your what's your take on do you

2235
01:56:19,120 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: what's your position on Ambler Road?

2236
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,880
Speaker 9: I would I'd say I'd lean more against it because

2237
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:27,760
Speaker 9: I mean, well, for one, they're not going to offer

2238
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,400
Speaker 9: any public access supposedly, but they did say that with

2239
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 9: the pipeline or the adult the know, the Hall road,

2240
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:35,880
Speaker 9: initially that was not not a public access.

2241
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:39,080
Speaker 1: Road, and initially it was not planned to ever be.

2242
01:56:39,400 --> 01:56:43,120
Speaker 9: No, it was just strictly an oil an oil company road,

2243
01:56:43,200 --> 01:56:47,320
Speaker 9: you know, or oil oil resources road. So yeah, at

2244
01:56:47,360 --> 01:56:50,040
Speaker 9: that point, you know, my outlook is like, well, do

2245
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:52,280
Speaker 9: we really need this here right now?

2246
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:55,080
Speaker 1: And it's not going to increase your access anyway.

2247
01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:57,200
Speaker 9: It's not going to increase my access. If there was

2248
01:56:57,400 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 9: like a firm plan to you know, to allow some

2249
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 9: hunter access, you know, yeah, I'd be okay for it,

2250
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:07,560
Speaker 9: I'd be I would be more willing to that might yeah,

2251
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 9: at least create like a win. Yeah, for sure. Like

2252
01:57:10,440 --> 01:57:13,440
Speaker 9: there's there's a road outside of Fairbanks. You guys drove

2253
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:16,880
Speaker 9: right by it to Pogo Mine, and it's not near

2254
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:19,839
Speaker 9: as long a road or through as controversial a territory.

2255
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:22,520
Speaker 9: I remember guys when they first put that road in,

2256
01:57:23,200 --> 01:57:25,120
Speaker 9: would take their four wheelers up there and sneak, you know,

2257
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:27,240
Speaker 9: they weren't supposed to, they would. They couldn't do anything

2258
01:57:27,400 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 9: to you if you're off the road. They just couldn't

2259
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:32,120
Speaker 9: catch you on the road speaking to some you know,

2260
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 9: some some sketchy stuff. And the hunt was up was

2261
01:57:34,480 --> 01:57:36,640
Speaker 9: pretty good up there for you know, till they really

2262
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:38,920
Speaker 9: cracked down on it. But there's still no public access

2263
01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:41,839
Speaker 9: to that road. You know, Like the resources are important

2264
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:46,080
Speaker 9: and access to them is important, but you know, it's

2265
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:47,120
Speaker 9: just got to be balanced.

2266
01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:50,440
Speaker 1: I think. So tell folks how to tell folks how

2267
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:52,240
Speaker 1: to find all your work, because if you if you're

2268
01:57:52,440 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 1: interested in you know, I always use the term wildlife

2269
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:58,839
Speaker 1: politics if you're interested in wildlife and management in Alaska.

2270
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:01,480
Speaker 1: Plus we've spent all our time talking about like some

2271
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:06,320
Speaker 1: controversial political stuff. But you're also very accomplished, avid hunter.

2272
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:11,560
Speaker 1: Do you everything from fur handling, like I said, hunting bears,

2273
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 1: with long bows.

2274
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:14,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, we got to have him back to talk some

2275
01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:15,400
Speaker 7: fun stuff.

2276
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 1: Talking about fun stuff. So, but tell people how to follow,

2277
01:58:18,120 --> 01:58:21,160
Speaker 1: like where to listen, how to follow your adventures.

2278
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:25,240
Speaker 9: Yeah. So I'm staff writer for outdoor Life, So outdoor

2279
01:58:25,280 --> 01:58:29,560
Speaker 9: life dot com and published on what on uh usually

2280
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:31,400
Speaker 9: a couple of stories a week. I do like a

2281
01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 9: triminted a lot of gun stuff, a lot of like

2282
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 9: gun reviews, stuff like that, but all dip into important

2283
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:41,120
Speaker 9: you know, Alaska based issues and the odd you know,

2284
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:43,880
Speaker 9: hunting story. Like the most narrative stories are like are

2285
01:58:43,920 --> 01:58:44,360
Speaker 9: my favorite.

2286
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:46,360
Speaker 1: Like most everything I read about the issues we've been

2287
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:48,720
Speaker 1: talking about. Most everything I read is your work.

2288
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 7: You're gonna sounds good because it's no nonsense.

2289
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:55,920
Speaker 9: No, And that's what you know. Which is funny is

2290
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 9: I'm staying with my coworker, our shooting editor, John snow

2291
01:58:58,920 --> 01:59:01,000
Speaker 9: here in town. He lives here in Bozeman, and uh

2292
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:05,720
Speaker 9: like he's he's put a tremendous amount of work into me,

2293
01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:08,400
Speaker 9: and like this is how we're gonna be, this is

2294
01:59:08,440 --> 01:59:11,360
Speaker 9: the type of gun content we're gonna do, and just

2295
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:13,920
Speaker 9: it's it's a lot of fun. I love my job,

2296
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:17,880
Speaker 9: So old Life dot Com and Uh, I have my

2297
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 9: podcast is.

2298
01:59:18,600 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 1: Called thunder Talk and that's your own podcast.

2299
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's mine. Okay, So it's uh, it's a fairly

2300
01:59:24,840 --> 01:59:29,480
Speaker 9: like it's just me and other hunters and from Alaska.

2301
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,760
Speaker 9: I mean, we talk about Alaska last you know what

2302
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:33,640
Speaker 9: we've been up to this last week kind of fixed

2303
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:35,880
Speaker 9: you know, I had to fix this generator. Here's how

2304
01:59:35,880 --> 01:59:38,640
Speaker 9: I did it. There's a whole variety of just kind

2305
01:59:38,680 --> 01:59:41,960
Speaker 9: of you know, loose like casual stuff, but a lot

2306
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:45,200
Speaker 9: there's there's so many people up there. I'm not that

2307
01:59:45,360 --> 01:59:48,840
Speaker 9: special up there, Like I'm just a dude. There's a

2308
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:50,440
Speaker 9: lot of cool people who do a lot of cool

2309
01:59:50,480 --> 01:59:52,560
Speaker 9: stuff up there, and that's kind of what I want

2310
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:55,200
Speaker 9: to share in my podcast. So it's called thunder Talk.

2311
01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:58,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, to get one, but you guys have that

2312
01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:00,520
Speaker 1: you still do that mergery? Do those making my boots?

2313
02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:04,800
Speaker 9: I have some stickers at I don't have, but I have.

2314
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Like the hoodies with Mickey What do you guys call

2315
02:00:07,880 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: them boots?

2316
02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:09,400
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2317
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:11,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, no I can. Uh, I've been getting bugged to

2318
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:14,120
Speaker 9: do another order of those, so I'll make sure. I'll

2319
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:15,320
Speaker 9: make sure you get one right now.

2320
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 1: You got your uh, you got your talks, thunder talks.

2321
02:00:19,440 --> 02:00:20,840
Speaker 9: This is how I get all my clothes is I

2322
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:23,440
Speaker 9: just do bulk quarters of clothes and sell some of

2323
02:00:23,480 --> 02:00:26,000
Speaker 9: them and then I don't have to buy clothes. But

2324
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:29,840
Speaker 9: uh that's the old Skidu tundra one cylinder.

2325
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:31,920
Speaker 1: And tunder talk is anywhere you find podcasts. Anywhere you

2326
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:33,919
Speaker 1: find podcasts, and you're on social media.

2327
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:38,080
Speaker 9: Social media, uh Instagram, primarily just at the Tyler freel

2328
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:40,400
Speaker 9: because I couldn't think of something more.

2329
02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:43,080
Speaker 1: Do you do you like or hate when people write

2330
02:00:43,160 --> 02:00:45,640
Speaker 1: you emails and hey, I want to come up? Where

2331
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:46,040
Speaker 1: should I go?

2332
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:46,280
Speaker 5: No?

2333
02:00:46,480 --> 02:00:47,680
Speaker 9: I get a lot. I get a lot of it.

2334
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:49,160
Speaker 9: So that's kind of part of it. I mean, my

2335
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:51,920
Speaker 9: that's my station is you know the type of stuff

2336
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:54,040
Speaker 9: I do, And that's part of it. And I can't

2337
02:00:54,160 --> 02:00:56,480
Speaker 9: always get back get to everybody, but I try to

2338
02:00:56,960 --> 02:00:58,840
Speaker 9: give what help. I'm not gonna tell I'm not gonna

2339
02:00:58,840 --> 02:00:59,840
Speaker 9: tell you where I hunt where I don't.

2340
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:03,440
Speaker 1: You don't give cordon no no, but guidance.

2341
02:01:03,040 --> 02:01:05,640
Speaker 9: But you know, logistical like get a lot of logistical

2342
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:08,200
Speaker 9: questions stuff like that. So yeah, I'm happy to happy

2343
02:01:08,280 --> 02:01:12,480
Speaker 9: to entertain that stuff as best I can know. And uh, yeah,

2344
02:01:12,600 --> 02:01:15,720
Speaker 9: I do piss some people off occasionally, you said, you

2345
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:19,040
Speaker 9: mentioned long bows. You would think that shooting a grizzly

2346
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:20,880
Speaker 9: bear with a stone arrowhead.

2347
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:22,400
Speaker 1: Would be universally celebrated or.

2348
02:01:23,880 --> 02:01:28,360
Speaker 9: Me, So you would think that would be more controversial

2349
02:01:28,440 --> 02:01:30,160
Speaker 9: than shooting one with a six or five creed more.

2350
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:32,040
Speaker 9: But you would be wrong.

2351
02:01:33,200 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 1: Seriously. Oh yeah, Oh you get more pissed.

2352
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:40,160
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, way more when it's on a video that

2353
02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:42,000
Speaker 9: I could tell you I shot this with a three

2354
02:01:42,160 --> 02:01:45,120
Speaker 9: thirty eight and you would believe me. Anyway, that's a

2355
02:01:45,120 --> 02:01:45,680
Speaker 9: whole other.

2356
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:50,920
Speaker 1: People are Yeah, people get annoyed. Well, we got to

2357
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 1: have you back on to talk about like the good

2358
02:01:52,880 --> 02:01:53,560
Speaker 1: not the good stuff.

2359
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:56,240
Speaker 9: We have the fun stuff. Yeah, not depressing talk about.

2360
02:01:57,480 --> 02:01:59,160
Speaker 9: So I'm sorry if I was waiting like.

2361
02:01:59,200 --> 02:02:01,800
Speaker 1: It's not depressed. I think, like I I watched with

2362
02:02:01,960 --> 02:02:07,920
Speaker 1: fascination because I think that they're So it's just a

2363
02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:11,960
Speaker 1: really great lesson about It's a really great lesson about

2364
02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:17,800
Speaker 1: land access, land administration, the pushing pull of different interests.

2365
02:02:18,280 --> 02:02:21,000
Speaker 1: You can learn, you know, I mean when when it

2366
02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:25,720
Speaker 1: comes to fighting about wildlife, Uh, you'll learn the most

2367
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 1: watch in Alaska.

2368
02:02:27,080 --> 02:02:30,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think so it's still pretty well has got

2369
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:30,240
Speaker 9: like a.

2370
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:32,320
Speaker 1: Dozen big game animals. I mean, it's just like, there's

2371
02:02:32,360 --> 02:02:34,920
Speaker 1: a lot. There's a lot going on up there. If

2372
02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:38,000
Speaker 1: you're interested in how these battles get fought and won

2373
02:02:38,120 --> 02:02:43,120
Speaker 1: and lost. Look to Alaska, man, you know it's uh

2374
02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:45,400
Speaker 1: and and following your work's a great way to follow it.

2375
02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:46,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, I appreciate you coming on.

2376
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:49,240
Speaker 9: Man, but Alaska sucks. Don't tell your tell your friends.

2377
02:02:49,400 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 1: Sure you should make it seem a lot worse.

2378
02:02:52,120 --> 02:02:52,320
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2379
02:02:53,160 --> 02:02:55,720
Speaker 1: Like, and then they closed the whole state to non

2380
02:02:55,840 --> 02:03:01,920
Speaker 1: resident All right, thanks a lot, ladies and gentlemen. Tyler

2381
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:05,360
Speaker 1: Freil check him out. Uh he's at outdoor life dot com,

2382
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 1: thunder Talk, Instagram, Instagram, like at Tyler Freil at the

2383
02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:12,920
Speaker 1: Tyler Freeld one. Yeah, don't go to some bake Tyler

2384
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:15,000
Speaker 1: Friel last week, thank you.

2385
02:03:15,800 --> 02:03:23,160
Speaker 11: I love those dag big big white tails, those bag

2386
02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:30,800
Speaker 11: bi big white tails. I love those beach by a

2387
02:03:31,080 --> 02:03:35,360
Speaker 11: shot g e E tales. I love those beachy bi

2388
02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:36,680
Speaker 11: white tales.

2389
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:43,440
Speaker 3: Big white tails, big white tails, big white tales are great.

2390
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 3: Hold what fun it is to sit in the freezing

2391
02:03:47,600 --> 02:03:52,360
Speaker 3: cold tree all day? Big white tales, big white tails,

2392
02:03:52,680 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 3: big white tails are great? Hold, what fun it is

2393
02:03:57,160 --> 02:04:01,400
Speaker 3: to sit in the freezing cold tree all day, dashing

2394
02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:06,520
Speaker 3: through the woods for the morning light, turns grave across

2395
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:12,200
Speaker 3: the fields and draws creep in all the way, climb

2396
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:17,040
Speaker 3: into the tree. Big bucks are on the wave. What

2397
02:04:17,400 --> 02:04:20,440
Speaker 3: fun he is to sit and wait for my gosh

2398
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:25,680
Speaker 3: don deer all day? Oh big, I'm sorry?

2399
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:26,120
Speaker 11: What is this?

2400
02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:27,800
Speaker 3: Pisocado strings?

2401
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:29,240
Speaker 2: Who do you think?

2402
02:04:29,280 --> 02:04:29,520
Speaker 1: I am?

2403
02:04:29,760 --> 02:04:30,000
Speaker 11: Enya?

2404
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:31,440
Speaker 2: Get this add here?

2405
02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:32,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it.

2406
02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:33,320
Speaker 2: Thank you?

2407
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:38,080
Speaker 3: Big white tails, big white tails, Big white tails are great.

2408
02:04:39,160 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 3: Hold fun it is to sit in the freezing cold

2409
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:47,200
Speaker 3: tree all day. I hope sand dreams are high the

2410
02:04:47,680 --> 02:04:52,200
Speaker 3: he's finally here. Mark said, it's the most wonderful time

2411
02:04:52,320 --> 02:04:57,000
Speaker 3: to kill the whitetail deer bingch points and pettings where

2412
02:04:57,160 --> 02:04:59,720
Speaker 3: you'll find me hang? It's want to feet in a tree,

2413
02:05:00,680 --> 02:05:05,160
Speaker 3: grunt tubes, my bowel inspector camos really campy be.

2414
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:07,880
Speaker 1: He or two ago?

2415
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:13,200
Speaker 3: I thought that this was fun, But now I'm frozen

2416
02:05:13,360 --> 02:05:16,320
Speaker 3: to my seat and the good times they are gone.

2417
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:21,240
Speaker 3: I've ate up all my snacks, my hands and toes

2418
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:24,640
Speaker 3: are numb, and we're gonna climb down from my stand.

2419
02:05:24,760 --> 02:05:27,720
Speaker 3: That son of a but decided to come.

2420
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:34,800
Speaker 11: I love those Beagy be whiteas those you rug Beagy

2421
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:37,200
Speaker 11: Big White tales.

2422
02:05:38,480 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 3: I love those Beagy Big Doug Yo eight shot g etails.

2423
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:47,880
Speaker 3: I love those big white tails all day