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Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with on our radio.

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Speaker 2: We have a very special guest today, Somebody who has

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Speaker 2: only been on the podcast once, way back in the day,

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Speaker 2: like right after the season was completed. Somebody that I

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Speaker 2: look up to a lot, I respect in the work

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Speaker 2: that he does. Uh, Somebody that I enjoy following on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Somebody I'm very excited to have on the Almost Famous Podcast. Ashley,

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Speaker 2: I know you are as well. This has been somebody

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Speaker 2: we've asked to bring on for weeks now mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The perfect person to do it in depth with because

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Speaker 4: I do truly feel like there's a lot of depth

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Speaker 4: to him and he has a lot of backstory. It

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Speaker 4: is Zach Clark. Hey, Zach, welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 5: What's up, guys am? I super I was on before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah all right, so I actually like have to we'd

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Speaker 4: have to really go back. But I do think that

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Speaker 4: you probably came mom Atasha and like an after you

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Speaker 4: did like what like right as you were announced in

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Speaker 4: like a speed press round.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a whole different life for you, buddy.

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Speaker 5: Okay, all right, I'll.

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Speaker 4: He believes that I don't even trust ourselves here because

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Speaker 4: I'm like kind of torn on this, Irue. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 4: so Zach, we're really excited to have you here. When

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Speaker 4: we do in depths, we like kind of start with

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Speaker 4: people's childhood and up.

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Speaker 3: So are you ready let's do it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, a lot of a lot of childhood stuff, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so tell us about like where you grew up,

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Speaker 4: what your family dynamic was like. Based on the show,

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Speaker 4: it seems like you have like the most warm and

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Speaker 4: wonderful family. We'll tell us about this.

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Speaker 3: That's so crazy you asked that. I was just talking

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Speaker 3: to my Yeah, like it was like a white picket

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Speaker 3: fence upbringing. And if you saw the Clark family from

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Speaker 3: the outside, you'd be like, oh, they're the perfect like

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Speaker 3: American dream family. But when you really dig in, there's

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Speaker 3: like substance use and eating disorders, anxiety and all the shit, right,

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Speaker 3: so you just never know what's going on. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: I grew up in uh in South Jersey. I one

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Speaker 3: of five kids. My parents are still happily married, so

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Speaker 3: they've been an amazing example for me for my entire existence.

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Speaker 5: And like, I have no notes on my upbringing.

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Speaker 3: I mean I always I like when when people ask

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Speaker 3: me about my high school experience. I always kind of

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Speaker 3: say it was like that days and confused, you know,

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Speaker 3: like I don't know who we've seen the movie, but like,

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Speaker 3: you know, played three sports and drank in the woods

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Speaker 3: on the weekends and chase girls and ran from cops

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Speaker 3: and had a lot of fun. I don't really like,

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Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of trauma. There was no reason

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Speaker 3: why I, you know, became a drug addict or whatever happened,

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Speaker 3: but I did, you know, And that's why I'm so

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Speaker 3: passionate about talking talking about it. However, many years later.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because you say that, and I

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Speaker 2: think you know, our stories are different but similar in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, Like I had an amazing upbringing

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Speaker 2: and yet found myself addicted as well. And there's been

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Speaker 2: moments obviously in that Zach, that I felt, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what the emotion around it is, guilty, sometimes confused,

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Speaker 2: like how did that happened to me?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: You know, at times like I'll be honest, I'll just

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Speaker 2: say it like I wish I had a better story,

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Speaker 2: Like I wish like I was at times like almost

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Speaker 2: envious of not having this like really gritty, like terrible

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Speaker 2: upbringing where I'm like, yeah, that's why I did what

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Speaker 2: I did, or that's how I got to where I got.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever feel that or when you look at

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Speaker 2: that kind of childhood that you grew up in, Like,

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Speaker 2: how do you view it? I guess in the lens

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Speaker 2: of now looking back on it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I've I've definitely felt that. And kudos to you, man.

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Speaker 3: I read I read a little bit about your story,

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Speaker 3: and likewise, I've been following you and I just love

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Speaker 3: that we get to do this and kind of shoulder

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Speaker 3: to shoulder and talk about it. And the truth is

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Speaker 3: like when I when I got sober, someone sat me

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Speaker 3: down because I was like, dude, I don't know, like

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Speaker 3: there's parts of my story that don't seem so interesting.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it gets definitely it's gnarly at some point.

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Speaker 3: But he looks me back in the eyes, like, dude,

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Speaker 3: the truth is the truth. He's like, the good news

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Speaker 3: now is all you have to do is be honest, right,

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Speaker 3: And so like I've I've tried to lean into that.

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Speaker 5: But if you, you know, looked.

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Speaker 3: At the town I grew up in, I mean it's

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Speaker 3: like a country club town in South Jersey, right, Like

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Speaker 3: I didn't want for anything. I had the nice baseball bat,

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Speaker 3: I had the nice glove. I you know, there was

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Speaker 3: always food on the plate, right and like sure, like

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Speaker 3: I could have dressed it up and bullshited people about

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Speaker 3: my upbringing, but I I'm proud of that today and

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Speaker 3: like I lean into that. I guess is really the

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Speaker 3: name of the game.

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Speaker 4: Well, you said that there was darkness and alcoholism and

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Speaker 4: antarexi and all that, So when did that start playing in.

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Speaker 3: So so, my sister's very open. She had an eating disorder,

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Speaker 3: and that was kind of like I remember that back,

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Speaker 3: Like I remember dropping her off to those appointments when

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Speaker 3: I was in high school, right, Like mom would drop

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Speaker 3: me off at sports practice and she would go see

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Speaker 3: her therapist and that was like all like over over

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Speaker 3: my head, you know. My older brother I would say,

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Speaker 3: like maybe has a little work all like perfectionism or

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Speaker 3: work ahol. And then there's me, right, Like I think

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Speaker 3: for the most part, I had a good high school experience,

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Speaker 3: got into college, played college baseball. But I just always

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Speaker 3: loved the party, you know, and it's just it was

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Speaker 3: the most important thing in my life. Like if I

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Speaker 3: knew that I had a drunk coming that's all I

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Speaker 3: really cared about, and it didn't really add up for

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Speaker 3: me until until I got this brain tumor and ended

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Speaker 3: up in surgery and they started pouring pills down my throat, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: that's when it really was like pouring gasoline on the fire.

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Speaker 5: But I think I think, like I you know, I

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Speaker 5: think I like to say.

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Speaker 3: Like I've done a lot of work and I've looked

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Speaker 3: at my childhood and you know, I would tell you

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Speaker 3: that like in my household, we didn't We are a

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Speaker 3: loving family and we always joke, but we don't really

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Speaker 3: have those conversations where like there was never the birds

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Speaker 3: and the bees talk. There was never like to talk

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Speaker 3: about don't do drugs. It was kind of just like

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Speaker 3: kind of figure it out on your own. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know that was just my parents' way of parenting

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Speaker 3: or whatever it was, but it's definitely interesting to look

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Speaker 3: back at it now and that in my work, right,

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Speaker 3: like I see all these families come into my care

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I know that because that's what

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Speaker 3: it felt like for me growing up or whatever like that.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, I could talk about this stuff

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Speaker 3: for hours.

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Speaker 2: Well, good thing we have a lot of time with

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Speaker 2: you then the so for those that don't know, because

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Speaker 2: you know, I think that I think unfairly to you

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Speaker 2: when you're on the show and then post show, you know,

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Speaker 2: people really grab gravitated and hold on held on to

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Speaker 2: the story that you were a recovered addict and that

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Speaker 2: you had that story. But what they missed in that

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Speaker 2: is kind of, uh, how that started, and that was

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Speaker 2: with a brain tumor where the medicines and the pain

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Speaker 2: pills and these things kind of were given to you

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Speaker 2: through the medical profession. And so if you don't mind

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Speaker 2: kind of giving us that story of you know, you

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Speaker 2: played college baseball and then at what age did you

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Speaker 2: find out that you had a brain tumor and how

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Speaker 2: did that kind of go through you know process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's and this is also I actually celebrate

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Speaker 3: twelve years tomorrow, so this is all right. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: so it's all like im it's that time of year

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Speaker 3: where I'm feeling all the fields. But so I appreciate

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about all this stuff. So look, I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't blame doctors. I don't blame the medical profession.

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Speaker 3: I think we've come a long way since that experience.

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Speaker 3: As a society. But I will tell you that free surgery.

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Speaker 3: Like definitely loved the party, Definitely wasn't afraid of a

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Speaker 3: bond hit, definitely dabbling in pills and coke and all

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Speaker 3: the that you kind of do in high school and college.

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Speaker 3: And then I graduate college and I'm living this whatever

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Speaker 3: normal existence. I get my first job, I'm dating my

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Speaker 3: college sweetheart, and life is kind of good, aside from

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Speaker 3: the fact that I'm probably blacking out like three or

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Speaker 3: four times a week. So prior to the surgery, I

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Speaker 3: already had these tendencies, right Like, I already there was

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Speaker 3: something inside me and and I'm very aware of that.

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Speaker 3: And what happened was it was Memorial Day weekend, so

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Speaker 3: it was the beginning of summer. Me and my college

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Speaker 3: buddies had rented the house down the Jersey Shore. We

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Speaker 3: were going to go, you know, party for the weekend,

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Speaker 3: and we were packing up the cores and the car

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Speaker 3: and I just I hadn't been feeling good for a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks, and I said to them, I was like, guys,

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Speaker 3: I gotta I got try and figure this out. And

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Speaker 3: I literally I remember calling this X Ray place, which

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Speaker 3: is kind of like your side of the road, suburban

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Speaker 3: kind of strip mall X ray place, and I made

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Speaker 3: an appointment.

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Speaker 5: I literally was a drive in. I drove in and

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Speaker 5: this sweet X.

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Speaker 3: Ray technician or whatever you want to call it, came

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Speaker 3: back after she had taken a few scans, and she

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Speaker 3: was white as a ghost, and I could just tell

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Speaker 3: something was wrong. She was like, you're not You're not moving.

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Speaker 3: I need to basically call an ambulance. And so from

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Speaker 3: that moment, within the next twenty four hours, I'm at

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Speaker 3: University of Penn Hospital in Philadelphia getting this tumor cut

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Speaker 3: out of the back of my head. And there was

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Speaker 3: no like pre op. There was no conversations like we

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Speaker 3: got to get this thing out of here and we gotta,

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Speaker 3: you know, worry about it after the fact. So I

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Speaker 3: go from you know, I'm going down the shore with

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Speaker 3: my friends to you know, having this life threatening surgery

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Speaker 3: in a matter of twenty four hours. So I don't

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Speaker 3: know what the hell is going on. And I remember

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Speaker 3: waking up in the ICU, like you know what, naked

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Speaker 3: like with all these things like tied into me and

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Speaker 3: they're just pumping me with meds, right, And I remember

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Speaker 3: thinking to myself, like there's no way that I kind

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Speaker 3: of feel this good after having that just happened to me,

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Speaker 3: and it clicked in my mind that the meds were

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Speaker 3: doing that for me. And so, you know, I spent

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Speaker 3: whatever it was, a couple of weeks in the hospital.

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Speaker 3: And the one thing I will say, there was never

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Speaker 3: a doctor that came in and said, hey, these are

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Speaker 3: the meds we're putting you on. You know, this is

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Speaker 3: what they do and this is what you have to

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Speaker 3: watch out for. They kind of just gave it to me.

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Speaker 3: And I got out of the hospital and I finished

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Speaker 3: off by prescriptions and I started to probably feel a

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Speaker 3: little bit of those withdrawal symptoms, and I took to

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Speaker 3: the streets, like I started buying drugs on the streets.

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Speaker 3: And from there it was kind of like off of

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Speaker 3: the races, crazy so quick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that I mean, you know that kind of

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Speaker 2: went off to the races. I think, get it going

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Speaker 2: to the streets. You know. For me, I had my

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Speaker 2: very first high school start at quarterback, big deal for me,

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Speaker 2: blow out my knee, you know, like four plays in

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Speaker 2: just to totally destroy my knee. Sports are done, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm done.

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Speaker 3: That was it.

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Speaker 2: That was it, Like never again all three ligaments, like

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Speaker 2: I never recovered. I came back and but just was

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Speaker 2: like a shell of myself athletically, and it was the

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Speaker 2: identity switch for me, like it was the Hey, this

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Speaker 2: is the thing I've known, this is what I've been

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Speaker 2: known for, this is what I thought my future looked like.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm just a student and a pretty poor one

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Speaker 2: at that, and really have no clue what life is

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Speaker 2: going to look like. And so the the medicine started there,

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Speaker 2: like the painkillers started there, and then they numbed me

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Speaker 2: like that, like as soon as I got off of them,

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, I started to feel that

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Speaker 2: like depression and I started to feel the identity switch.

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Speaker 2: And so the pills numbed my senses and kind of

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Speaker 2: made me feel non existent, which is what I was

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Speaker 2: looking for, and that's where the addiction started. And then

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Speaker 2: obviously I had hit the streets as well. I know

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Speaker 2: what that looks like, hitting the streets for me. So

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Speaker 2: that started in two thousand and eight ended in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we were out there semi same.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the you know, for me, at least, my

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Speaker 2: hitting the streets look like this stealing. And then obviously

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Speaker 2: buying wherever I could. For those that are listening, obviously

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Speaker 2: you do this for a profession now, And I think

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Speaker 2: for me, as I've walked through this journey, it's all

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Speaker 2: it's been really good to talk talk about it because

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Speaker 2: I think it a lot more people than we understand

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Speaker 2: are dealing with this. What did that look like for

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Speaker 2: you hitting the streets? Like what kind of things could

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Speaker 2: you share and warning signs? Maybe for family and friends?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's heavy, and I appreciate you sharing, bro,

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Speaker 3: And it's like, this is why I do what I do,

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Speaker 3: because I get to share openly with guys like you

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Speaker 3: about that people here and probably over dramatize, but really

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Speaker 3: it's just a part of our story and we choose

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Speaker 3: to lead into that. And I think my truth about

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Speaker 3: podcasts in general is I don't like get super excited

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Speaker 3: for them or love them, but if we help one

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Speaker 3: person today, that's really it was all worth it, right,

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Speaker 3: Like at the end of the day, That's what I

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Speaker 3: really truly believe. And my experience has told me that

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Speaker 3: when I do these things, typically.

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Speaker 5: The DM start flying in and we start to help

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Speaker 5: some people.

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Speaker 3: You know, For me one, it has absolutely changed in

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Speaker 3: the last ten years I was out there.

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Speaker 5: Now, I wouldn't I wouldn't be alive.

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Speaker 3: Just because fentanyl, which is the synthetic popia that's being

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Speaker 3: put in all these street drugs, and it's basically fifty

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Speaker 3: times stronger than the painkillers you and I did, right,

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Speaker 3: So people are dying left and right. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: see the narcan up here on my shelf. I mean

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Speaker 3: I carry that where because you just never know. But

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Speaker 3: for me, you know what it looked like is I

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Speaker 3: obviously had a lot of guilt and shame around the

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Speaker 3: fact that I was hooked on drugs, so I didn't

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Speaker 3: want anyone to know about my habit. Initially, I found

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Speaker 3: a drug dealer in town that sold pills, and I

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Speaker 3: managed to kind of keep that habit going for I

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Speaker 3: would say about a year after the surgery, where you know,

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Speaker 3: you wake up, you text a drug dealer, you go,

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Speaker 3: you buy your whatever head stashed for the day, you

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Speaker 3: take them, you do them. And it's a crazy cycle

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Speaker 3: because what started as swallowing pills turns into snorting pills,

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Speaker 3: and then I'm smoking pills, and it's just like the progression, right,

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Speaker 3: and at every step along the way, I was resetting

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Speaker 3: my tolerance. Yeah, as you probably know, right, Like you

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Speaker 3: go from taking a five milligram perk to take in,

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Speaker 3: you know, one hundred milligrams of oxycon in the day,

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Speaker 3: like whatever it was for me, that's what it was

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Speaker 3: for me. And then beyond, you know, And then what

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Speaker 3: happened was I ended up in rehab for the first time.

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Speaker 3: And while rehab saved my life, eventually, I will say

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Speaker 3: that the first time I was in rehab, I learned

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Speaker 3: about heroin, I learned about other drugs. I got super curious.

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Speaker 3: I knew that I wasn't done. So I got out

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Speaker 3: of treatment and tried to find pills, couldn't and I

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Speaker 3: don't know what happens. I found pills, I started doing it.

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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, like this is becoming too expensive

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Speaker 3: too quickly. And then I went and bought a bag

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Speaker 3: of heroin for the first time, and again that reset

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Speaker 3: my tolerance. And a bag of heroin's ten bucks right

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Speaker 3: whereas a p I was paying fifty sixty dollars a pill.

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Speaker 3: And then I kind of lived that way for a

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Speaker 3: certain period of time, and then that's when the needle

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Speaker 3: came into play and I started shooting drugs, you know,

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Speaker 3: So it's like it goes from this crazy brain tumor

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Speaker 3: to hooked on pills to it's an expensive habit to

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Speaker 3: in rehab. So it's an even.

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Speaker 5: More expensive habit to heroin.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I always say, like, you need to

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Speaker 3: normalize that word, because you know, I say heroin to

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Speaker 3: someone and they look at me like I have four eyes,

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Speaker 3: when in reality it's you know, more people are doing

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Speaker 3: it than you realize.

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Speaker 4: How did you get into that rehab? Was there an

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Speaker 4: intervention with your family?

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Speaker 3: Great question. So the first time I went to rehabit

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Speaker 3: was so I was married previously. I got married in

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Speaker 3: June of two thousand and nine to my college sweetheart,

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Speaker 3: and she saved my life. I will say that here

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Speaker 3: on the record. And we were basically married for a year.

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Speaker 3: She knew that I loved to party and that something

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Speaker 3: was off, but she also loved me right because we're

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Speaker 3: lovable people. And then in so it was like October

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Speaker 3: of twenty ten, the wheels were starting to come off,

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Speaker 3: and like the three thousand foot overview of my life

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Speaker 3: is I'm newly married. I'm living in this house and

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Speaker 3: like the town I grew up, and we had this

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Speaker 3: little dog that's running around, and you know, there's like.

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Speaker 5: Two cars in the driveway. I'm working, She's a teacher.

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Speaker 3: On the outside, again, it looks like we had this

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Speaker 3: pretty normal life, but behind the scenes, I'm hooked on pills.

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Speaker 3: I'm building like massive gambling debt, and my entire life

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Speaker 3: is a lie, right, and I'm starting to get disconnected

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Speaker 3: from the people in my life that mean the most

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Speaker 3: to me. So that story is actually pretty hilarious. My

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Speaker 3: wife and mom were out at a bar classically in

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Speaker 3: the town of Pattonfield, where I grew up, and one

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Speaker 3: of my friends actually went up to them and told

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Speaker 3: them that I was that I had a drug problem.

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Speaker 5: So my mom came home to my house.

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Speaker 3: I'm like sitting there watching the Phillies game, and she's like,

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Speaker 3: we know what's going on.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, what the hell, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 5: She goes, we know you're hooked on drugs.

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Speaker 3: So that night, I actually drove myself to a rehab

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Speaker 3: that I had seen a billboard for on the side

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Speaker 3: of the road, which is insane. I think I was

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Speaker 3: their first and only drive in customer ever, because I

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Speaker 3: just like I didn't know what else to do right,

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Speaker 3: And so I slept in that in the parking lot

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Speaker 3: of that rehab, I like knocked on the door of

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Speaker 3: the detox. It's a hilarious story actually if you think

359
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Speaker 3: about it, like don't you can't just walk into rehab?

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Speaker 3: And then I admitted the next day and I stayed

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Speaker 3: for for twenty eight days. And you know, while it

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Speaker 3: didn't stick, I learned a lot that first time around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you did you want to? I mean when

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Speaker 2: when they confronted you, I think there's the piece here

365
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Speaker 2: I want to dig into a little bit. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you've learned that you could if you

367
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Speaker 2: could speak to this, Is there a healthy way to

368
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Speaker 2: confront somebody who's an addict? Did they do it? And

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Speaker 2: I mean typically people have no idea, Right, your mom

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Speaker 2: and your your wife find out and they come home

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Speaker 2: and they're like probably freaked out, they're nervous, they're scared.

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Speaker 2: And then they come home they're like, we know what's

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Speaker 2: going on? Like is there a way they could have

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Speaker 2: done this better? Not that like they messed up, but

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Speaker 2: is there a way they could have done this better?

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Speaker 2: And then the second part of that is were you

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Speaker 2: ready to hear this? From somebody you loved.

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Speaker 3: So there's a couple questions. There was I ready. I

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Speaker 3: there was a sense of relief when I found out

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Speaker 3: that they knew because I had been living such a lie, right,

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Speaker 3: so the fact that it was out me open, I

382
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Speaker 3: did feel a little shift. I was not ready to

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Speaker 3: be done drinking and doing drugs. That had never crossed

384
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Speaker 3: my mind. But I'm also like a mama's boy. I'm

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Speaker 3: super sensitive and so like when my mom walked through

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Speaker 3: the door, I always respected my mother, and so I.

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Speaker 5: Was going to listen, and I felt it in my soul.

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Speaker 3: Looking back, maybe if they had a professional or went

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Speaker 3: about it in a little bit of a different way,

390
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Speaker 3: could it have had a different outcome. I don't know.

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Speaker 5: The research actually suggests that.

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Speaker 3: The willingness that you go into rehab with has no

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Speaker 3: bearing on whether or not you're going to stay sober

394
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Speaker 3: or not. You know, like you hear a lot of

395
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Speaker 3: times people are like, well they got to hit rock

396
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Speaker 3: bottom before they go in, and get like that's bullshit, right,

397
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Speaker 3: Like I've seen people turn their lives around who you know,

398
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Speaker 3: just wanted to turn their lives around, Or I've seen

399
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Speaker 3: people go to rehab kicking and screaming that end up

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Speaker 3: with a really good outcome. So don't I don't really

401
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Speaker 3: buy into that. I think for like the listeners, if

402
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 3: you're concerned about a loved one, obviously having a professional

403
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 3: guide you is key becau because it removes the emotion

404
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Speaker 3: from it, right Like a family member, a spouse, a brother,

405
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Speaker 3: a sister, it's just going to be emotional.

406
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Speaker 5: It's just going to be too emotional, right.

407
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Speaker 3: And what I always say is like, for me, if

408
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Speaker 3: there's a professional in the room and there's an intervention

409
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Speaker 3: going on, I'm not going to use my kind of

410
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Speaker 3: like I'm not going to weaponize some of the I

411
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Speaker 3: would usually weaponize against my family and my loved ones

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Speaker 3: because I don't. I would be embarrassed to do that, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: it kind of takes the air and the emotion out

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Speaker 3: of the room because I don't want them to see

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Speaker 3: the act that way.

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Speaker 1: Right.

417
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Speaker 3: So, but it all comes back to love and compassion

418
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Speaker 3: and just making sure that the person who's struggling with

419
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Speaker 3: their mental health or their substantutes disorders is seen and heard.

420
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Speaker 3: That's so much of it. And I've done tons of

421
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Speaker 3: interventions and sometimes they go and sometimes they don't. Typically

422
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Speaker 3: if you stay on them though, they'll eventually ask for help.

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Speaker 2: Who are the professionals? Like, if somebody's out there listening,

424
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Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, I'm in this scenario. I need to

425
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Speaker 2: reach out to a professional to help me with through

426
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Speaker 2: this with me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah you can DM. I mean we have look,

428
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Speaker 3: I have, like so released recovered my company here in

429
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 3: New York, we have seventy something employees trained intervention is

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Speaker 3: on staff. I mean, we we get these calls all day,

431
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Speaker 3: every day, and if it's not us, then we will,

432
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Speaker 3: you know, refer you out to the to the appropriate person.

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Speaker 3: And that's really been the blessing and the curse of

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Speaker 3: this whole platform. I guess you would call it. That

435
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: I've been given is that I have to be very

436
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: mindful these days of when I post or when I

437
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 3: put something out there, because every time I do, the

438
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 3: influx of people kind of asking for help and wanting

439
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 3: assistance can can be overwhelming. And you know, like the

440
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 3: like the drug addict that I am, I want to

441
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: help everyone and I want to do it all and

442
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: sometimes that's not healthy for me.

443
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 4: So did you do you find that there is like

444
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 4: that you were hiding it? I mean I'm sure I'm

445
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 4: assuming that you were hiding your your addiction symptoms. What

446
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 4: did you do to hide it? And what should family

447
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: and friends look out for in people when they're a

448
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 4: suspect of it.

449
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 3: I mean, and Ben, I don't know if you can

450
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 3: relate to this, but we're pretty good.

451
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say my first response is, I

452
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 2: don't think anybody would know. Really, no, they had no idea, Like.

453
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 4: Your behavior wasn't different because you just feel like you're

454
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 4: in your normal state.

455
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 2: I like super I was probably in a pretty good

456
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 2: mood most of the time.

457
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, actually, if you look at me a

458
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 3: bend right now, right like two pretty probably I would say,

459
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 3: like charming, charismatic guys, you put a smile on and

460
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: fake it, right. So I think that's the life I

461
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 3: lived for a very long time, and I was I

462
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 3: was fun to hang out with, Like I mean, like

463
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: we went out on a Friday night, we were probably

464
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: getting into something pretty pretty exciting just because whatever.

465
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my parents. You know, obviously new bits

466
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 2: and pieces of this. The book that I wrote explains

467
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: it in a lot more detail, and then the questions

468
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: started to come out for that, you know, some of

469
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: the questions and interviews I get is like, are you

470
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: ever upset with your parents for not like helping you more?

471
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no, because like one of my main

472
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 2: goals was to keep the people I loved like not

473
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 2: knowing about this, and so it would have been a

474
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: really hard mystery or a really hard thing for them

475
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: to crack when you know, I wasn't letting them in

476
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 2: on this secret or this thing that I was hurting with.

477
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: And and so I guess that's a good point too.

478
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like if you know, if you're sitting there,

479
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 2: you're feeling shame and gil as a family member or

480
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: a loved one because you didn't know or you didn't

481
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: ask the right questions at the right times, so that

482
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: somebody that was hurting was you know it, you know,

483
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: telling you about this, like don't don't carry that because

484
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: you know, as an addict, at least, I was working

485
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: really hard to keep it inside of me.

486
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, So you're saying that your mom and your wife

487
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 4: were out at a bar, had no idea that you

488
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: had these issues, and then somebody else came up and

489
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 4: told them, and that's how they found out. And that

490
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 4: was the first time they had an inkling.

491
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were like sitting there swirling shot on a

492
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 3: Thursday night. And it's funny, my buddy that.

493
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 5: Actually outed me.

494
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 3: I always laughed because he I ended up putting him

495
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 3: in rehab like four years later, so I got him back.

496
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: But I credit him with being part of the reason

497
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 3: that I'm here today because if he didn't do that,

498
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 3: I don't I don't really know what would have happened.

499
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: And what I tell all family members, Like, the thing

500
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: that I think is important for people to understand about

501
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: behavioral health care, about substance use disorder, about addiction is that,

502
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 3: you know, if I had the cure, if I had

503
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: the magic answer, I wouldn't be sitting on this podcast.

504
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 5: I'd be flying around on my private checks.

505
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 3: I would have sold the solution, right, Like if you

506
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: look at heart disease and diabetes and some of these

507
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 3: other diseases out there, you go to the doctor, they're

508
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 3: going to tell you what to do, They're going to

509
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 3: put you on medication, they're gonna, you know, if you

510
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: have cans like whatever it is, and you're, as the patient,

511
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: going to follow those recommendations to a t because you

512
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: want to live right or you want to get your

513
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: diabetes under wrap, or you want to beat cancer or

514
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: what like. With this, I could go to a rehab,

515
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: or I could go to a therapist, or I could

516
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 3: go to a doctor, and they could make five suggestions,

517
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: and the addict in me is going to be like, well,

518
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: I don't really want to do that. I'll think about

519
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 3: doing that. I'll probably go to rehab next month. So

520
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 3: there's no blueprint on what really works here, which is

521
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 3: why anytime I talk to a family, I make sure

522
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: that they're taking care of themselves first, because the most

523
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 3: powerful thing that can happen is when the family changes, right,

524
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 3: because so much of this is en messed in that

525
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: family of origin and the way you grow up. And

526
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: if the family can change and the mom can stop

527
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 3: enabling or whatever it is, then the identified patient, so

528
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: like me in this case, is going to realize that

529
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: and I'm going to start to understand that my bullsh

530
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 3: isn't working anymore, and I'm going to be forced to.

531
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 5: Kind of look at myself.

532
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: So a big part of this is like each family

533
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: member or the wife or the spouse or whoever it

534
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: is taking care of themselves and them changing so that

535
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 3: the whole family system can change, if that makes sense.

536
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: There's a there's so much here is Zach to break down,

537
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 2: and all of it's important. I don't think we have

538
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: time to talk through all the process, you know, But

539
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: looking back, you know, I'm sure you have similar stories.

540
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: I've lost, you know, close friends. My best friend in

541
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: high school passed away due to fit and all use

542
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: when we were sophomores in college. So you know, there's

543
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: people out there right now who have lost loved ones.

544
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: And there's also I just had a time this weekend.

545
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: I was with a group and one of the guys

546
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: had just recently gotten sober from the same type of

547
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: pills that I was using. We're kind of chatting through it,

548
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: like how lucky are we?

549
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: Right?

550
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 2: You said it earlier, like the amount of pills I

551
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: was taking, Not that it would dramatize it, but like,

552
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: it's it's scary for me to think about now. It

553
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: frightens me that that was what I was putting in

554
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: my body. And people ask me, and I want to

555
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: hear your response, but they said, people ask me, like,

556
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: what does it feel like to be sober right? Or

557
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: what does it feel like not to be using anymore?

558
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I don't know if this is

559
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: for everybody's story. I want to hear mostly because I'm curious.

560
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: Like the addict like in me always wants a pill

561
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: like that has not gone away. It's not like all

562
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: of a sudden now I'm sitting here being like, no,

563
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: this does not sound fun to me. Still the feeling

564
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: I don't wish to have again like that still sits

565
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: inside of me. The difference now is that there's decisions

566
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: and tools that you know, I've had to learn and

567
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 2: implement in my life to not open up the bottle

568
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: or to not get back there. So for somebody listening

569
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: and for yourself in your experience, somebody's maybe feeling some

570
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: shame because they've recovered and they're sitting there going, yeah,

571
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: but I want it bad, Like are they Are we

572
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 2: alone in that?

573
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: Like?

574
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: Am I? Am I alone in that feeling? Or is

575
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 2: that a common feeling?

576
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: I think it's a common feeling. This might be.

577
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 5: We differ a little bit.

578
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: I think for me, the obsession to drink and drug

579
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 3: was lifted at some point, and I don't crave that.

580
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 3: You know, the thing that's really interesting is that I've

581
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 3: been I've been working in behavioral health care now for

582
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: the last eleven years. So I've seen so many cases

583
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: come across my desk where you know, they're they're and

584
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: they're all just so different. They're all like, so your

585
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 3: case is different than my case, which is different than

586
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: the you know, the galaxit next to me. And that's

587
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: why it's so important to kind of approach this thing

588
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: with love and compassion, because your story is different than mine, right, Like,

589
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like for me, I don't drink, I

590
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 3: don't do drugs. I live this like completely sober lifestyle.

591
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: I know other people in my life who you know,

592
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: have have had a cocaine problem and they've been able

593
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: to put the cocaine down and they can still have

594
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: a glass of wine on a Friday night, right Like

595
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't have that luxury because I'm convinced

596
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: that that will lead me to, you know, other drugs.

597
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: And so you're absolutely not alone, you know, in the

598
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: fact that, like you still have these cravings from time

599
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: to time. I think where and I can only use

600
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 3: my experience. Where I go with it is that I

601
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: look at the last twelve years of my life and

602
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: what I've been able to do and my my existence

603
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: is next next level, and I still get to do,

604
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: Like one of my big things today is showing people

605
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: that I still get to do some of the coolest

606
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: this planet has to offer. I just don't have to

607
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: drink and do drugs. And in my first year, you know,

608
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: I didn't do those things. But like this last weekend,

609
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: I was up at Saratoga with my buddies from from

610
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: high school, Like we were at the horse races. We were,

611
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: you know, up all night, dancing, the whole thing, and

612
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: and they're partying their asses off, and I'm right there

613
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: with them, just making a decision not to drink and

614
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: do drugs. So there's that. And then the other thing

615
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: I will tell you, like in your case, from my

616
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 3: case or anyone else who's kind of you know, on

617
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: this journey, is there's a lot of like shame and

618
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: stigma around this word. So like, you know, maybe you

619
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: don't do pills for five, six, seven, ten years, and

620
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: then you have a slip and people really struggle to

621
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: come back from that. And what I would tell that

622
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: person is like that little slip or whatever happened, doesn't

623
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: discount the many years of work you did to get

624
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: to that point and at any point in time, you

625
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: can get right back on and stay sober for that day.

626
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 5: So I don't know that was helpful if I answer

627
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 5: your question.

628
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 2: But that's kind of just yeah, everyty story is different

629
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: and there there are different elements to everything, you know.

630
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: I think the point that I was trying to make

631
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: is like the shame and the guilt I would like

632
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: to release from the people out there struggling or the

633
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: family that feels like somebody struggling, because that was never helpful.

634
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: Like the shame of the guilt was the stuff that

635
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: I was trying to get, you know, rid myself from

636
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: and one of the you know, catalysts to the start.

637
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: And so I like that. I mean, I don't like

638
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: that makes it sound like I'm that I knew going in,

639
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: or I was trying to push you in a certain direction.

640
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: I am appreciating, I guess as I listened to you

641
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: the normalization of these conversations and these words and these experiences,

642
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: because I think normalizing these experiences and allowing an open

643
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: space to talk about it and allowing a space for

644
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: compassionate love would have been the only thing that would

645
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: have helped me, at least in my personal experience been

646
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: the only thing that I would have felt comfortable being like, yeah,

647
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: this is this is where I'm at, and this is

648
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: this is where I you know, where I don't want

649
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: to go.

650
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: Zach Ben recently had knee surgery. How do you walk

651
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 4: addicts through who have recovered into a time where they

652
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: might need the drug again under medical supervision.

653
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 5: Case by case, Really did you have to take that or.

654
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: No I did. Yeah I had my system, but yeah,

655
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: you know, if you have an answer to this, but yeah,

656
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: I'd have my own personal system for that time.

657
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's a lot of ways. I mean,

658
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: we've had people in our care here at release that,

659
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 3: you know, two months into their stay in one of

660
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: our programs, they need to get some type of major

661
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: surgery done, and we approach that with extreme caution. You know.

662
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: The first thing I always say is like advil and

663
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: title all is pretty damn good when taken correctly, and

664
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 3: so let's try that and give that a shot. And

665
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: if not, you need to take opiates or take pills

666
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: to help you get through the pain. There's a way

667
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: that we can do that. Obviously, consulting with your doctor

668
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: is a big thing there, and being really open and

669
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 3: honest with them about you know, your previous experience being

670
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: hooked on drugs and hoping that they have some bedside

671
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 3: banner to be able to work with you on that.

672
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: And then you know, enrolling your loved ones, enrolling the

673
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: people in your life that care about you, and for

674
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: all all this stuff, It all, for me goes back

675
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 3: to honesty, Like if.

676
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 5: I am honest, it bends honest.

677
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: Actually, if you're honest about whatever it is that we're

678
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: going through, then we have a shot to get through

679
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: it in a pretty in a pretty safe and healthy way.

680
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: Where it goes off the rails is you know, someone

681
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: get surgery two months into recovery and you know they're

682
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: managing their own pills and they're picking up the scripts

683
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: and you know they're doubling down on the dosage. I mean,

684
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: the dosages are there for a reason, and the directions

685
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: are there for a reason, and so trying to you know,

686
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 3: follow those things to the best your ability and leaning

687
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: on your.

688
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 5: Support group, you can absolutely get through it.

689
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know what I did, and maybe

690
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: it's helpful, maybe it's not for anybody. Is my wife

691
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: and my mom who are here kind of caring for me.

692
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: For that first two weeks, they were in charge of

693
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: my bottle, and then there was literally a day where

694
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: I remember looking at my mom and saying, I am

695
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: enjoying this too much, like I don't need these anymore.

696
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: You need to take these away from me. She had

697
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: started to hint at it already, like hey, you know,

698
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: we're ten days out and you're running through these things,

699
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, I'm enjoying this, Like I I

700
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 2: like this. Now, it's probably best I stopped, and we stopped,

701
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: and as much as you know, eight o'clock would roll

702
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: around and be like, you know, it sounds really good

703
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: right now is for her to go back up and

704
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: give me like they were in control of that, and

705
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: they had to say, no, here's yeah, here's some Adville Hills,

706
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: here's some til and all. You'll be fine. So it

707
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: was the honesty. I think the honesty was just helpful,

708
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: and you know, we got through it well, I think,

709
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 2: as you know, for me. And when I said it earlier,

710
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: like maybe the addict always at least I crave it

711
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: at times in my life a lot less than it

712
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: used to be, Like yes, it like saying it out loud,

713
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: admitting it now that my family and my wife know

714
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: that this was a part of my story, like you know,

715
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: they're not shocked, and I'm like, you know what i'd

716
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: really really feeling right now And they're like, yeah, that's

717
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: not an and I'm like, yeah not, So what are

718
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: we going to do. Let's go for a run, Let's

719
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: go for a walk, like I got to get my

720
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 2: mind off this. So it's the honesty and just kind

721
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: of owning it a little bit. I guess for me

722
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: has helped me not have access to it, or not

723
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: want access to it, or not fight for access to it.

724
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: I relate to that so much. I love that your

725
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 3: mom and wife are so supportive, and for me, it's

726
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 3: like it just goes back to this, like as a

727
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 3: human being, I want to be loved, right, I want

728
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: to be believed. I want people to like me. And

729
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: so when I think about my childhood and kind of

730
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: the way this episode or podcast started, you asked me

731
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: about that, and I remember from a very young age

732
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 3: just wanting to be loved, like that's it, and that

733
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: like the lying for me almost started before any addiction,

734
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: because I would tell people what I thought they wanted

735
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: to hear. If I thought it was going to make

736
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: them like me more, right, And what I've learned in

737
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: this experience over the past twelve years, when I just

738
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 3: tell the truth, I'm actually a pretty decent, likable guy,

739
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna make mistakes like anyone else. But it

740
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: just makes everything so much easier.

741
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 4: You know, how did your first marriage fall apart?

742
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: I mean, I can give you I mean, you could

743
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 3: guess at that one, but one. I was twenty five

744
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: and I don't I don't know that I even understood

745
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: what marriage really was. I still don't know if I

746
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: understand that. That's why I'm thirty nine and single. But

747
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: I was twenty five and I just wasn't ready. I

748
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: wasn't ready for any of it. You know. She was

749
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 3: an amazing woman, and she was a school teacher, like

750
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: could have a glass of wine, could not have a

751
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: glass of wine. Good great family, and I just put

752
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 3: you know, they kind of say this thing in recovery, like.

753
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 5: Whatever you put in front.

754
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: Of your recovery, you're going to lose, right, And it's

755
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 3: like the other way around, right, Like I put partying

756
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: and drugs and alcohol above everything else, and so naturally

757
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: that caught up to me and the real, the real fan.

758
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 3: I get like a little emotional talking about it because

759
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 3: she truly did save my life.

760
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 5: So when I was in rehab.

761
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 3: The first time, it's so crazy to think about, Uh,

762
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: we did this like family group or whatever it was,

763
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 3: and basically, like me and my wife at the time,

764
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 3: Jen made this contract and it essentially said like if

765
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: I got drunk or high again.

766
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 5: She was going to leave me.

767
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 3: And it's so hard for family members to honor those

768
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 3: types of contracts. And I got out of treatment and

769
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: I broke the contract and she came in the room

770
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: and she basically said, this is it. I'm done. You

771
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: know I'm not doing this. She's like, I love you,

772
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: I don't love this, and her dad came down to

773
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: the house that night when she figured it out. I'm like,

774
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: she stood so strong and I needed that. I needed that,

775
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: and and that resulted in me kind of going on

776
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: this eight month run when I knew she was really leaving,

777
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: when I knew she was actually saying like the party's over,

778
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: that took me to some pretty deep, dark places that

779
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 3: I had to get to and ultimately.

780
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 5: Back into rehab the second time.

781
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 4: When you say, you know the vows in sickness and

782
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 4: in health, would you consider what do you think about

783
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 4: that and her leaving.

784
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 5: I think she did the right thing. I think.

785
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: I don't blame I don't blame her at all. I don't.

786
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 5: I mean, and there's not it. There wasn't even a

787
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 5: moment early on.

788
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: Where I blamed her. I totally understood it because I

789
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 3: just wasn't. I think I've always been a good person.

790
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 3: I don't think I was behaving in a good way.

791
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: And there was no one on this planet that should

792
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: have put up with that. And the reality is is

793
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 3: like my dad and my one of my best friends,

794
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: this guy Anthony, were like the last two guys to

795
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: kind of hang in hang in with me. Most of

796
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 3: the people were kind of decided to do the same

797
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: thing she did, which is like this is too much.

798
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: That's powerful because you know, I remember, you know, I

799
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: believe in a god above and so that's part of

800
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 2: my story as well. And I remember, you know, during

801
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 2: this time, friendships were leaving, and you know, romantic relationships

802
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: were ending, and not necessarily they knew why. But I

803
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 2: just wasn't. I was sketchy. I was a little bit

804
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: like I was lying half my life. I guess most

805
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: of my life, hundred percent of my life. And then

806
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: the prayer that I prayed. I remember I woke up

807
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: one morning after making a really terrible decision, and I

808
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: looked myself in the mirror, and I looked at myself

809
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 2: in the eyes in the mirror, which I'd never do.

810
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: It's a really weird thing to do. It's like stare

811
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: inside your soul. And I just remember this feeling of

812
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: that you're not the man you ever wanted to be.

813
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: And so my realization now and so I prayed to God, God,

814
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: please intervene if you're there, and I believe God did.

815
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 2: And that's my story. But the interesting part of that

816
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: looking back now is like I the people that left me,

817
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 2: I was never mad at like I was never like,

818
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, screw you. It was almost more upset with

819
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: myself at times because I felt like like I knew

820
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: I wasn't a good dude. I thought I was. You know,

821
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: people would say, you know been so nice, Well, yeah,

822
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: he's always really friendly, but like in my heart, like

823
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: I knew that I wasn't a good dude, and or

824
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: I wasn't behaving in a way that I wanted to behave,

825
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: like make me the man that I wanted to be

826
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 2: or a dream of was a thought through my head,

827
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: and so I relate with that.

828
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: Do you believe you're a good guy today? Like, have

829
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 5: you gotten around?

830
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 2: I have a comfortable I have a comfortable perspective on myself,

831
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,959
Speaker 2: which means, do I think I am the perfect guy

832
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: that in my head I could be?

833
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 4: No?

834
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: Do I feel good about the way that I treat people,

835
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: I treat myself, the honesty that I live my life

836
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 2: with the way that I treat my wife and my

837
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 2: family and my friends. Yes, I feel very good about

838
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: that because I my intention is really good now. I

839
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: don't have the hidden secrets. Do I think I'm you know,

840
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: the best dude? No, I have terrible moments, but I

841
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: can forgive myself now because they're true moments, Like they're

842
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: not lying moments. They're not me trying to fake it.

843
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: They're they're honest, and so that's what helps me. I

844
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: guess say, yeah, I'm human, like I'm not perfect, and

845
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 2: that's okay, I'm good anything to that.

846
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: I just think it's amazing. Like I look at you,

847
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 3: I see a cool guy. I think someone like someone

848
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: I probably like to have a beer with or hang

849
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: out with, you know, like whatever it is.

850
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 5: And I think for.

851
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: Whoever listens to this or sees this, I think it's

852
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: really powerful to just and Ashley is like sitting over.

853
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 5: There, I like to hear it too. It's so interested

854
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 5: going back and forth like this.

855
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: And I always thought it was so weak to talk

856
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 3: about my feelings or be honest, like you know, like

857
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: I grew up and at home where it's like, you know,

858
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: give me twenty push ups and take out the trash, right,

859
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 3: And that was like that was toughness. And now today

860
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: I think it's tough to like pop on a podcast

861
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: with you guys and just like lay it all out

862
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 3: there and not give it more people think about it

863
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: because at the end of the day, the people that

864
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 3: are judging me, I don't really care anyway.

865
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the weird thing, Zach just selfishly in personally, I

866
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: got to share this that you know, I wrote this

867
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: part of my book and then it comes out and

868
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: then like it became the interview that everybody wanted. People

869
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: Magazine was like, hey, let's talk about your addiction. It's

870
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: like this is this is a big part of my life,

871
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: but it's also a very small part of my life, like,

872
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: this is four years of my life. This is not

873
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: my complete story. And I remember this. I was visiting

874
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: my family and we had just the night before kind

875
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: of talking talked through this, and they were saying they

876
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: were proud of me for speaking up on this and

877
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 2: they believed it was important and all these things. And

878
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: I was feeling great, and I was like, you know,

879
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: I got a great family. They love me, and I

880
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: got a great wife. She loves me, and they get it.

881
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: You know.

882
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 2: My in laws were there and they love me. You know,

883
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: they get it. And People magazine posted this picture of me,

884
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: and you know, the headline was like admits to addiction

885
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: or something, and the comments were awful, man, Like they were, oh,

886
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 2: you know, so sorry for Ben for having an addiction

887
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: ten years ago. Didn't we all like what a what

888
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 2: a headline grabber? And the like it crushed me. It

889
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: might have been the weakest like moment. I vividly remember

890
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: sitting on the beach in Florida looking out at the

891
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: ocean being like, I mean I could, yeah, it just

892
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: like it threw me in a place that I did

893
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 2: not want to go back to. And so I think,

894
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: as you're saying, how important it is to speak openly

895
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: about this. I believe it is. It did build some

896
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: grit inside me where I said, no, screw those people,

897
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: like that's not the people I'm talking to, That's not

898
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 2: the people that need to hear this. But it's also important,

899
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: like you say, as you were saying, to to respect

900
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: these stories with love and compassion, no matter where they

901
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 2: are or where they're at, or how you know, how

902
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: dramatic they seem or how undramatic they seem. They are

903
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 2: human stories and we need to you know, respect them.

904
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: And so I share that to say, yeah, that sucked.

905
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: That wasn't that long ago. That sucked. That was two

906
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 2: years ago. Like it threw me in a bad place,

907
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: you know. For me, it's an interesting thing that the

908
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 2: show gave me a lot more confidence in my story

909
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: than I originally had going into it because I was

910
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: allowed to, you know, at some point just said no,

911
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: I can't, I can't be in an environment. And it

912
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: was actually one of the producers along Gail came to

913
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: me and said, hey, I don't like you because I

914
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 2: don't know you, because you don't let anybody get to

915
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: know you. And I know there is more to you

916
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: than what you're sharing. And that was a four hour

917
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: sit down with him where I burst out and I

918
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I feel unmovable, I feel unlikable. I

919
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 2: feel like nobody knows me because I don't allow anybody

920
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: to know me. And that gave me the confidence then

921
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: step out and say, no, this is this is the

922
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: story I want to share. And that was you know,

923
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: one of the parts I want to talk to you

924
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 2: about here is you did go on the show. You

925
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: obviously have an understand you know, a depth to you

926
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: and a story to you that is is is powerful,

927
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 2: relatable that isn't uncommon amongst many and you said, hey, yes,

928
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: I know this is part of my story. I know

929
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: this is a part of my life, and I'm going

930
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 2: to go on the show and now make it public.

931
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 2: I would love to hear kind of how this show

932
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: affected you personally, if it was a positive or negative experience,

933
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: if you know, just walk us through kind of your time.

934
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I mean, I don't know if I'm just

935
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 3: feel uncomfortable today, but like I don't talk about the

936
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 3: show a lot, and.

937
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 5: I don't know why. I don't know if I've like

938
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 5: pushed that part of my life away.

939
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, obviously there was a relationship

940
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 3: that didn't work out, and I'm a super sensitive guy,

941
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 3: so maybe that's that has something to do with it.

942
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 3: But I can tell you that, I can tell you

943
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 3: my thought process leading up to it, which it was

944
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: the middle of COVID, right and I'm in New York.

945
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm thirty six, I'm living this beautiful life. I'm running

946
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 3: this company. Like everything was good, Like everything was really good,

947
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 3: you know, aside the fact that I probably worked too

948
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: much and I didn't really put any time aside for

949
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: to find a partner, you know, like I got sober

950
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 3: and I hit the ground running here in New.

951
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 5: York City, and I was building this company.

952
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: And all this stuff, and the phone rang, you know,

953
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: like it does for all of us, I guess at

954
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 3: some point in time, and it was it was La calling,

955
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I don't know.

956
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 5: What is this, you know, like what is this phone call?

957
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 3: And it was one of the producers, and I said,

958
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 3: lose my number, like I don't know what you're talking about,

959
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: like and then she got me. I remember, Ali, She's like,

960
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 3: is there any chance so like your sister like and

961
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: like I guess my sister had like gone on the

962
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 3: whatever and like filled out this application. I was like,

963
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 3: all right, tell me more. And that's an example of

964
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 3: like that was my sobriety talking. That was my recovery talking.

965
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 3: That was me saying like, okay, have an open mind

966
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 3: and just like put one foot in front of the other.

967
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 3: And then for me, the beautiful part was like if

968
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: I had to fly to La and like sing and

969
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 3: dance in front of a bunch of producers, like whatever

970
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: you gotta do. Like I I was able to do

971
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: all of it like virtually because it was COVID and

972
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: then in like I mean, I think it was like

973
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: six weeks and where I got to it was like okay,

974
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: like the world is shut down, this is an opportunity.

975
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 3: I have to put the phone down and really see,

976
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: like to your point, like if I'm lovable, if I'm

977
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 3: capable of love. And I felt really good walking into

978
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: it because I was very secure in who I was

979
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 3: and I had told my story any of times prior

980
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 3: to that. So for me, I was just gonna, like

981
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: my promise to myself is I'm going to walk into

982
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 3: this experience. I'm gonna be myself and I'm going to

983
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: try to be as authentic as possible. And when I think,

984
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 3: the biggest thing I'm proud of from that whole thing

985
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: was watching it back and saying, like my friends saying

986
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 3: like that's you, like that we saw it, like you,

987
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 3: that is you as Clark, Like that is you on TV,

988
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: And like that's the biggest compliment anyone could give me,

989
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 3: because like I am, sure people show up there and

990
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: you know, they try to act a certain way and

991
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 3: they end up shooting themselves in the foot and it

992
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: doesn't it doesn't go well. And that's why, like I

993
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 3: could start a whole nother thing about like when I

994
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 3: hear people say they get a bad edit or whatever,

995
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: like that's foreign to me because like I'm just and

996
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 3: maybe I got a good at it. I don't know,

997
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 3: But like what I say is like no one can

998
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 3: make me say or do anything. And so that was

999
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 3: just who I was and that's what I saw, right,

1000
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: you know, So I I don't know, that's just me, Zach.

1001
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 4: I was obsessed with you on the show, Like I

1002
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 4: was like this, I am obsessed with watching this guy.

1003
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 4: And I know the relationship's over and I know that

1004
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 4: you're not always comfortable talking about the show.

1005
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 3: You got me playing loose, right, you better ask now

1006
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,439
Speaker 3: because I'm playing loose.

1007
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 4: Okay, if you could just kind of put yourself back

1008
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 4: in that situation just for a minute without knowing what

1009
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 4: comes of it. Yeah, when Claire laughed and Tasha came in,

1010
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 4: how did you feel?

1011
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 3: Well? I think, I mean, if you ask anyone for

1012
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 3: my season, I was probably going home the next day

1013
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 3: if Claire stayed, because there was like this comedy thing

1014
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 3: that I find just like it didn't go well for

1015
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 3: zact like I just had bad jokes, they weren't funny.

1016
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: I kind of like unintentionally made fun of Claire in

1017
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: a way that wasn't so nice, like my New York

1018
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: and Philly kind of came out, and so like I

1019
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: was pretty sure I was going home, like if there

1020
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 3: was like and then she like runs off with Dale

1021
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: and then we're sitting there for you know whatever. And

1022
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: like I will say about all these humans, I love

1023
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 3: like I've learned to love all of them, the guys,

1024
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 3: the girl, like everywhere because I feel like there's that

1025
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: common bond that we all share and you know, no

1026
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: matter how messy it gets. So I think for me,

1027
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: I was like grateful to kind of have this second opportunity,

1028
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: and I was just kind of settling in, Like I

1029
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 3: was kind of nervous and timid at the beginning, and

1030
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: you know, like night want I didn't talk to Claire

1031
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: and I think I had like one maybe sit down

1032
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 3: with it, you know, so it was like it was

1033
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 3: all very farn and I hadn't really watched the show,

1034
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 3: so I didn't know the way that any of that

1035
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 3: she was supposed to go, you know, and then Tasha

1036
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 3: walked in. Obviously she's beautiful, and it's like this new

1037
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,959
Speaker 3: it was almost like this second opportunity, and at.

1038
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 5: That point I felt a little bit more you.

1039
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 3: Know, comfortable, just like it took me a moment to

1040
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 3: settle in and and from there, like you know, it

1041
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 3: was a it was a positive experience.

1042
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, this show's such a unique experience, and I think,

1043
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: you know, Zach, I relate like I feel like I

1044
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: got a good edit then or that. You know, when

1045
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: people watch it, they're like, yeah, that's the guy I

1046
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: know back home is boring and as you know, simple

1047
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 2: as I seemed, you know, my buddies are like, yeah,

1048
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: that's you, Like we can we can watch you. And

1049
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: that gave me some confidence going into it. You know,

1050
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: I relate with your desire to go on the show. Also,

1051
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: you know, there was a secret hope inside of me

1052
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: that maybe I would have a cooler story to tell

1053
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: in my life to my friends, like yea, I went

1054
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 2: on the Bachelor at one point, or I was on

1055
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: the Bachelorette at one point, Like I thought that would

1056
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 2: bring some interest and intrigue to my life. And there

1057
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: was also a side of me it was like, I

1058
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: just want, you know, to test myself if like I

1059
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 2: am the person that I think I am, or if

1060
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 2: I am still charming. Because I was twenty five years old,

1061
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: twenty four years old, I was two years out of

1062
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 2: this thing for me, and so I was still trying

1063
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 2: to figure myself out. And that's why the show is

1064
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: so helpful. When Alan and all of his wisdom and

1065
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: all on this and said, hey, I don't like yeah,

1066
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 2: and just said I don't like you because I don't

1067
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: know you, and I was like, man, you're you're hitting

1068
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 2: someplace I don't want to hit. And then you know,

1069
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: everything comes out you obviously now and I know Ashley

1070
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: wants to dig in a little bit to the proposal,

1071
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 2: uh into this, you know, and that's how I feel

1072
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: in this.

1073
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,919
Speaker 5: Moment with you guys even talking right now.

1074
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: It's like, you know where a lot like like something

1075
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 3: actually said like made me feel comfortable talking with you

1076
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 3: guys about this, and I think, like any podcasts I

1077
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 3: go and it's like, yeah, I'll talk about anything, but

1078
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: the show. I'm like, what is that saying about me?

1079
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's like that that that's like there's something there, right,

1080
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 3: and I have to like I can either look at

1081
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 3: it or or not, and like the truth is that

1082
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: should change my life, and like I do you know,

1083
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: fly that flag when I when I can, because is

1084
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: it's allowed me to help a lot of people and

1085
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 3: and have some pretty cool experiences and you know, you

1086
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 3: take to go with them bad in any situation.

1087
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 5: So I don't know.

1088
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: I mean, that was my question to you, is you

1089
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 2: know obviously you are more closed off to the show.

1090
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 2: And for me, it's such an important part of my

1091
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: life and it will always be a big part of

1092
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: my story because of the relationship that came from it,

1093
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 2: the relationship that ended from it, and then my journey

1094
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: to find my wife kind of offhanded through it and

1095
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: all these great things that have happened me from it,

1096
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: And I just wondered if you look back on your

1097
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: time now with the relationship over obviously that came from

1098
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: the show and your job now and say what has

1099
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: came from your experience on the show. That That was

1100
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 2: my question to you is when you look back now,

1101
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: like how did how has it changed your life?

1102
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 3: I probably don't stop and think about it enough, you know,

1103
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 3: and give it enough, give myself enough credit, you know,

1104
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: Like I don't like I'm being really honest with you.

1105
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 3: I think there's probably times where I'm like, you know,

1106
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: like kind of the stuff you were talking about earlier,

1107
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 3: with like the guilt and the shame, Like I don't know,

1108
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 3: like are other guys going to respect me as someone

1109
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 3: who went on this show?

1110
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 5: You know, like are other guys going to judge me?

1111
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: And like, at my core, I know that that's just

1112
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: me giving my power away to some bullsh narrative that's

1113
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 3: not true because it did take a lot of balls

1114
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 3: to like show up there and like lay it all

1115
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 3: on the line. And so how has my life changed?

1116
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 3: I mean I think I think in a lot of ways,

1117
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 3: you know, everything from like this weekend, like being out

1118
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: with my friends who have known me for twenty years

1119
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 3: and someone asked for a picture and they're like, dude,

1120
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: this is just so crazy, Like I just don't it

1121
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: doesn't because to them, it's still very like every time

1122
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: it happened, like it just doesn't make sense because I'm

1123
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 3: just Zach to them, you know, and like to like

1124
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 3: having some unbelievable like just experiences, like the things that

1125
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 3: I've gotten to do that I I wouldn't have otherwise

1126
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 3: gotten to do. But the real way I think that

1127
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 3: it has changed my life is a lot to do

1128
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: with what we talked about today, which is I have

1129
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: been able to, you know, get really comfortable telling my story.

1130
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 3: I think I've had more people write me tell me

1131
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 3: that I've I've changed their life or saved their life,

1132
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: and I don't give that enough credit. And to your point,

1133
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: been like, you know, I believe, like I grew up Presbyterian,

1134
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 3: but I believe in God. My God might be a

1135
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 3: little bit different than your God or actually, but I

1136
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 3: believe in God, and I believe that it was meant

1137
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: to happen for this purpose that I could get out

1138
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 3: there and show people that there's another way to live.

1139
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 3: And if I can do it, than anyone can you know.

1140
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 3: That's really at the end of the day, like the

1141
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 3: simplest answer to that question.

1142
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that.

1143
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 4: Well, just yourself back in that position, like thinking about

1144
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 4: your time on the show. For me, I just loved

1145
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 4: watching you guys fall in love. I have been open

1146
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 4: that I love Charity and Dutton season, but the one

1147
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 4: that made me feel before that was yours. So there

1148
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 4: was like a three year drought in that. Your proposal

1149
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 4: was something that I'll always remember. I think it was

1150
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 4: the last time I cried during a proposal, and I

1151
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 4: remember this one thing that you guys kind of shared together.

1152
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 4: You were like every other love before this, like this

1153
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 4: is like the first real Like this is a love

1154
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 4: above any other love I've ever experienced, and this was

1155
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 4: you saying this is a thirty six year old guy.

1156
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 4: So how do you look back on saying that and

1157
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 4: feeling that now now that it's over.

1158
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a loaded question. I appreciate it. Thank

1159
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 5: you for asking.

1160
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 3: You know, I meant it. I meant it at the time,

1161
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 3: you know, I felt it at the time. And you know,

1162
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 3: like the thing I always say is like true good

1163
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 3: people don't always make a good relationship, you know, and

1164
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 3: that's I think my experience there, Like for whatever reason,

1165
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 3: there just was never like this. It's just never, you know,

1166
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 3: like like in the moment, I guess to answer your question,

1167
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: like in the moment, it felt, it felt real, it

1168
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: felt right, It was all those things, and you know,

1169
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 3: I wouldn't change anything. I don't live and regret. You know,

1170
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 3: it's a very special moment in time in my life,

1171
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: regardless of what happened. And I think that's I think

1172
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 3: that's a full answer.

1173
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah, give me the things

1174
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: that are real. It's one of the things I like

1175
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: to live by, and that obviously this show, you know,

1176
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: for as goofy as it is, and for as wild

1177
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: as it is, and for as disrespect as it can

1178
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: be fairly by the public, there are moments within it

1179
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: that are real and that we you know, talk about

1180
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 2: here that cross into reality, like the show come becomes

1181
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: a part of reality. And I think for you, as

1182
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: we watched that it was real. And I think hearing

1183
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 2: you say yeah it was, is like not only comforting,

1184
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: it's just exciting for me because it's one of the

1185
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: things that we like to stand on here is Hey,

1186
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: this is going to affect your life, good or bad.

1187
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: If you're not yourself, it's gonna affect your life. If

1188
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: you are yourself, you're gonna it's gonna affect your life.

1189
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: If you fall in love and you're honest about it,

1190
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: it's gonna affect your life. It's just gonna be a

1191
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 2: part of you because it's a time in your life.

1192
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 2: You're not like leaving you know the world to do this.

1193
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: And so I think for me, it's exciting for you

1194
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: to admit to that because a lot of people don't,

1195
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: or a lot of people, you know, hold on to

1196
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: an anger, vengeance or say, hey, like I was just

1197
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 2: confused and it was too fast, too soon, all these things.

1198
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you felt it the time, and so

1199
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 2: that shows you something.

1200
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I might be in the minority, like I would

1201
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 3: never blame a producer. I would never like I'm a

1202
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 3: big boy, Like I said what I said, I did

1203
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 3: what I did, I meant it all like, and you know,

1204
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,959
Speaker 3: to your point, guys, it's like the number one question

1205
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 3: I think I get asked with people that like meet

1206
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: me and then they think they have my ear for

1207
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 3: a second, it's like, what was it real? I'm like,

1208
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: it's real for me, Like every moment was real, like

1209
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 3: from sitting in between filming and like it was all real.

1210
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, part of a TV show, but like real.

1211
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 3: I was there, I did it, I said it. Those

1212
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 3: things happened like it was very real for me. So

1213
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:35,919
Speaker 3: much show that, you know. Maybe that's why I don't

1214
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: talk about it as much. You know, I don't know.

1215
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, on a lighthearted note, another thing that you

1216
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 4: guys could bond over is the fact that you are

1217
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 4: like a try you do. You do triathlons, but you

1218
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 4: do marathons. You run a ton. This guy runs a ton.

1219
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 4: He's about to do a triathlon. This say something that

1220
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 4: is so beyond me.

1221
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm about to do a triathlon in October a full.

1222
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: No goodness, No, I'm not ready for that. My goal

1223
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: is a full. Next year at thirty five will be

1224
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 2: my first full. I've been doing sprints for years, which

1225
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 2: are is a whole new training.

1226
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 5: I mean, you commit to a full, I'll commit to

1227
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 5: a full with you.

1228
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 3: This swimming scares of shit out of me, though, let's

1229
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: do a full together.

1230
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: I think right here, somebody's gonna listen to this and

1231
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: have a connection to a full and I want to

1232
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: put it into my life, bad knees and all, I

1233
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 2: want to put it into my life.

1234
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 3: If you're in, I'm in. I got buddies that are

1235
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 3: training form now. It's insane.

1236
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, does running and recovery have a lot to

1237
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 4: do with each other.

1238
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 3: I think the running community is very similar to the

1239
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: recovery community, and that is just a group of really

1240
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 3: good people kind of coming together around a common bond.

1241
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 3: And you know, they're just like my people, like the

1242
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 3: running community are just the nicest, kindest people. I think.

1243
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 3: For me, from a mental health perspective, running, I would

1244
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 3: be terrified if I ever got hurt because there are many, many,

1245
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 3: many days where you know, the prayers not work and

1246
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 3: the meditation isn't working, like something's just off, and I

1247
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: go off for a run to clear the mind because

1248
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: that is just a tool that I picked up over

1249
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: the years, and it's really really helped me. Like the

1250
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 3: cheesy saying I think is like move a muscle, change

1251
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 3: of thought, but that works for me for real, you.

1252
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, for me, it's never been you know, I

1253
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 2: have friends and people that know who have had some

1254
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 2: type of mental health or addiction. Things happen in their life,

1255
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: and you know, exercise is a good way for them

1256
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 2: to kind of cope with it. For me, it's never

1257
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: been a coping mechanism. Honestly, why I exercise every day

1258
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: is because at thirty four years old and at twenty

1259
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: four years old, I want to be in the better

1260
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: shape next year than I was this year, just so

1261
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: I can function and be like kind of like I

1262
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 2: have a big enough ego where I'm like, I just

1263
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: I want to be in better shape next year that

1264
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 2: I was this year. I'm not allowing this to catch

1265
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: up with me. So that's more of my drive, is

1266
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: like I feel better about myself. But it's never those

1267
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: two things haven't ever really related with me, and one

1268
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: wasn't a response to the other.

1269
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 3: Actually, are you a runner? Are you a runner?

1270
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 2: I'm not.

1271
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 4: I wish I could be an exerciser. I just am not.

1272
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: I haven't done it since before my son was born.

1273
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 4: I was in the best shape of my life, working

1274
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 4: out like four to five times a week, and it

1275
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 4: just dropped off after that. I feel like he himself

1276
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 4: as like a thirty pound weight is enough exercise for

1277
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 4: me around the house all day.

1278
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 3: That might be my stock answer, I really wish I

1279
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: could be an exerciser.

1280
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 4: But you guys are honestly inspiring me. I'm trying to

1281
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 4: I'm feeling the way that I did in my body

1282
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 4: after a workout. It is a good feeling. I'm going

1283
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 4: to totally switch the topic right now because i know

1284
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 4: we have to wrap up, but I think this is

1285
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 4: a really important note to hit on and then I'm

1286
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 4: going to let Ben and you have your final moment.

1287
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 4: Narcan is something that is behind you now and something

1288
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 4: that is so important these days. As it well, you

1289
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 4: can tell the people what it does and what do

1290
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 4: you think about, like people just carrying it even if

1291
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 4: they're like not at all in the environments in which

1292
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 4: the fentanyl would be present.

1293
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think the easiest.

1294
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 3: So the real quick is Narkhan is an overdose reversal drug,

1295
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 3: So if someone is overdosing, you spray it up their

1296
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 3: nose and it helps reverse effects of an overdose and

1297
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: can literally save a life. I've personally witnessed and know

1298
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 3: people that are alive because of because of Narkan and

1299
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 3: the reason it's out in front more is one It's

1300
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 3: going to be over the counter starting in September, which

1301
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 3: is a huge, huge, huge twin just means you can

1302
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 3: walk into a pharmacy and buy it. Two, we lost

1303
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 3: over seventy thousand people last year to opiate related overdoses

1304
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: and over one hundred thousand people to overdoses in general,

1305
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 3: so it's clearly affecting country. And Three with fentanyl out

1306
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: on the streets, Fentanyl, as I described earlier, is a

1307
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 3: synthetic opiate, so it's man made. It's fifty times stronger

1308
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 3: than any other opiate you're going to find out there,

1309
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 3: and literally, like as salt pebble, could send someone into

1310
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 3: an overdose. And what's happening is that fentanyl is being

1311
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 3: put into not just fake pills, but into marijuana, into cocaine,

1312
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 3: into drugs that you know, you show up as a

1313
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 3: college freshman and you see your first line of cocaine

1314
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 3: like I did, and you do that, there's a chance

1315
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 3: that could be leased with ventanyl. So it's not just

1316
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 3: about substance use disorder, it's about just living in the world. Yeah,

1317
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 3: I mean, like, so the easiest way for me to

1318
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 3: explain it to your question about like, hey, do you

1319
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 3: just carry this around? I would say that most homes

1320
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 3: in America have a fire extinguisher, right, and I looked

1321
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 3: it up.

1322
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 5: So I'm going to do a real on this because

1323
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 5: I think it's genius.

1324
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 3: But I looked it up and there's like, you know,

1325
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 3: there were like three thousand residential fire deaths last year

1326
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 3: in America, which is like a big number still and

1327
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 3: like scary, but every home in America has a fire

1328
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: extinguish for everyone knows what that is. I just gave

1329
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 3: the numbers about overdose, right, one hundred thousand, and a

1330
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 3: lot of people don't even know what narcan is. So yes,

1331
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 3: you should have it. Yes you should carry it around.

1332
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 3: If you need a way to find it or access it,

1333
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 3: you can certainly right me, It's a huge passion of

1334
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 3: mine just because I know it's probably going to get

1335
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 3: better before it gets worse. But that's my that's my

1336
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 3: stick on narcan for right now.

1337
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 4: Quick follow up because I'm thinking for the audience right now.

1338
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 4: I'm obviously a huge proponent of it, but I think

1339
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 4: that there's probably people wondering, well, if there is an

1340
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 4: overdose rescued drug, isn't that just gonna encourage people to

1341
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 4: just continue with their addiction further?

1342
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 3: You can't treat people that are dead. Good answer, So

1343
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 3: keep them alive and get good answer, you know, show

1344
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 3: them some love and hopefully they can they can find it.

1345
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 3: I mean that's why, you know, we could do a

1346
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 3: whole other episode on the multiple pathways to recovery and

1347
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 3: harm reduction versus like for me like total abstinence to

1348
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 3: the guy sitting next to me that you know, like

1349
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 3: Ben might have had a pill problem and it's still

1350
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 3: able to have a couple of beers on a Saturday

1351
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: night like there's and they're all fine, right, They're all

1352
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 3: fine as long as you're able to look at it

1353
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 3: with an open mind and love one another.

1354
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:36,919
Speaker 2: So well, buddy, thanks for coming on, stay in touch. Yeah,

1355
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: thanks for sharing this. You know, there's a few key

1356
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 2: points I want to point out. One, it's beautiful hearing

1357
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 2: it too, is you know, for you not to overdramatize, uh,

1358
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 2: your path, because I think it happened so often and

1359
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: I think that's uh, it can be dangerous for multiple levels.

1360
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: One family hearing it to the person going through it,

1361
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 2: like the over roumatization of it can make it feel

1362
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: a lot like just like a lot more chaotic than

1363
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 2: maybe it is. And then the other point I want

1364
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 2: to point out is just the consistency and coming to

1365
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 2: somebody with love and compassion and not always knowing how

1366
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 2: to do it well, but coming to them with love

1367
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 2: and compassion. And it's going to save many lives. And

1368
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: I hope this podcast and the people listening hear this

1369
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: and they say, hey, we always love Zach. We watched

1370
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 2: him on television like Ashley did. We fell in love

1371
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 2: with Zach, and we fell in love with his story.

1372
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 2: And yes, this was a piece of history on the show,

1373
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: but it wasn't why we fell in love with him.

1374
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 2: We fell in love with him because who he is.

1375
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 2: He's a good looking dude, he's charming, he's nice. You know,

1376
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: he was open, he was honest, he was vulnerable, all

1377
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 2: of these things. But then we respect Zach for what

1378
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 2: he's doing now, what he did before. And I do

1379
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: I believe when you do this stuff people listening. And

1380
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 2: as you said at the beginning, and this we'll close with,

1381
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: if one person, one's person's life is saved because or change,

1382
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 2: let's not say saved, change for the better, because listening

1383
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 2: to this episode, it's all been worth it, and it's

1384
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:10,919
Speaker 2: been worth it to do for the last eight years.

1385
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: Then outside of everything else. So, Zach Clark, thanks for

1386
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 2: coming on, thanks for being honest, thanks for talking to us.

1387
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 2: We appreciate it. We'll talk to you again soon.

1388
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 3: Thanks, guys, and I can help you in any way.

1389
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 3: Let me know. It's great to see you and such

1390
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 3: a pleasure.

1391
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for giving us your time.

1392
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 5: Peace, Bye bye.

1393
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:35,600
Speaker 2: This has been a important, incredible, fantastic, honest, vulnerable, interesting

1394
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 2: conversation with Zach Clark. It's the off season here at

1395
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 2: Thomas Famous Podcast, but doesn't mean we're gonna be away.

1396
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 2: We'll be back putting out new episodes of new content

1397
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 2: for all of you and for us until The Golden

1398
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 2: Bachelor starts and Bachelor in Paradise starts. So until next time,

1399
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 2: I've been Ben, I've been Ashley.

1400
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 4: Bye guys.

1401
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on

1402
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.