Speaker 1: Shame comes up so frequently with my clients and with
Speaker 1: money in general. Right, it's not just like my clients
Speaker 1: who are coming to me to have these types of conversations.
Speaker 1: It's also, as I know you know and can see
Speaker 1: and can hear from other people, people are just dealing
Speaker 1: with it silently. And I love what you said about
Speaker 1: talking about it and bringing it up is the antidote
Speaker 1: to shame, because I completely agree. I think it brings
Speaker 1: us out of this isolation and sadness and gloom that
Speaker 1: we can create ourselves when we start to spiral in
Speaker 1: our shame to think I'm the only one who's going
Speaker 1: through this, nobody else is going through this. I you know,
Speaker 1: then the terrible things that you say to yourself right
Speaker 1: start showing up to all of that negativity, and it
Speaker 1: forces you inward versus forcing you outward where you can
Speaker 1: feel loved and appreciated even though you were going through
Speaker 1: a hard time.
Speaker 2: Hey, ba fam, it's your host, Mandy Money. I sat
Speaker 2: down with Asia Evans this week. Asia is a financial therapist.
Speaker 2: She's the author of a book called Feel Good Finance.
Speaker 2: And yes she is taking new clients, but only a few,
Speaker 2: So maybe if you like what you hear on today's episode,
Speaker 2: you can go check out her website. I'll put it
Speaker 2: in the show notes. But Asia and I sat down
Speaker 2: to talk about debt, and even just saying that word
Speaker 2: makes me want to throw open my mouth a little bit.
Speaker 2: My relationship to debt is probably as dysfunctional as anyone else's,
Speaker 2: and at this time in our economy, it's very common
Speaker 2: to hear pieces of personal finance advice about paying down
Speaker 2: your debt, consolidating your debt, getting your debt under control,
Speaker 2: and saving. But if we can't get through the shame
Speaker 2: of even having debt in the first place, then ba fam,
Speaker 2: how do we even start getting ourselves out of it?
Speaker 2: On today's show, Asia and I are going to talk
Speaker 2: about how we actually get more comfortable being uncomfortable, and
Speaker 2: how that can lead us on a path toward finally
Speaker 2: paying down debt and releasing ourselves from the shame of it.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned, we'll be right back jump in. Asia, I
Speaker 2: want you to ask me what you just asked.
Speaker 1: So I think, looking at why we have such a
Speaker 1: hard time feeling uncomfortable, and I don't say just we
Speaker 1: as in me and you, I mean we as a
Speaker 1: human collective, Why are humans so afraid to be uncomfortable?
Speaker 2: I love that question so much. It's funny because it's like, well, duh,
Speaker 2: you're a therapist, so of course you know that that's
Speaker 2: a crucial question to ask. But it is one of
Speaker 2: the key questions I have been working on to answer
Speaker 2: this past year of my life. I've been on this
Speaker 2: big mental health journey where I was just like, so overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: I'm sure that with ba fam, with all the things.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm just like, if you look
Speaker 2: at my situation, like what's wrong with her, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's just a modern woman in her late thirties with kids,
Speaker 2: a mortgage, a business, a husband, and family and friends,
Speaker 2: and she's this is what happens when you try to
Speaker 2: do all the things, and this day and age is like,
Speaker 2: of course you're struggling. And for me, the big journey
Speaker 2: has been how to sit in that discomfort and how
Speaker 2: to not obsessively or not obsessively, but how not to
Speaker 2: be afraid of it so that you're constantly trying to
Speaker 2: fix it. And I want to talk about the ways,
Speaker 2: like when we're not able to cope with just being uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: being anxious, not being financially secure, not having whatever it
Speaker 2: is that you want going on in your life. Like,
Speaker 2: in what ways are we hurting ourselves by constantly trying
Speaker 2: to fix that discomfort?
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful question, And I don't think that we
Speaker 1: think enough about how we're hurting ourselves trying to just
Speaker 1: get out of that uncomfortable feeling. So a lot of
Speaker 1: times when you are, you know, there are the classics.
Speaker 1: You overspend, you go shopping, you order take out, you
Speaker 1: book a last minute trip where you know it's going
Speaker 1: to be far more expensive than it would have booked
Speaker 1: if you you know, planned it out a little bit
Speaker 1: more or gave it.
Speaker 3: Some times you had a.
Speaker 2: Really terrible day and you're like, whatever, just do it.
Speaker 2: Throw caution to the wind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, Like you know, I only live once. This
Speaker 1: is ridiculous, Nothing matters. Everything is crashing out all over
Speaker 1: the world. It feels so hopeless. But what I want
Speaker 1: people to understand is that when you are in that moment,
Speaker 1: when you're in fight or flight, when you're in that crisis,
Speaker 1: your body is screaming at you to do something to
Speaker 1: make you feel more comfortable. That's just instinctually, that's what
Speaker 1: humans go through, and I want that thing that you're
Speaker 1: going to do, whatever that coping strategy is, to be
Speaker 1: something that you are going it's going to put you
Speaker 1: in a better situation longer term. So when we are
Speaker 1: in a crisis and we're reaching for our cards, we're
Speaker 1: reaching for our phone, we're ready to double tap, we're
Speaker 1: ready to just hit purchase hit by. That is a
Speaker 1: short term win. It is in the short term, going
Speaker 1: to make you feel better, and it does work, to
Speaker 1: be clear, Like a lot of those things do work.
Speaker 1: You get that quick spike of dopamine and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: everything's great, I feel good. But the problem with that
Speaker 1: is that it doesn't last long and you will go
Speaker 1: right back to where you were before if you don't
Speaker 1: actually start addressing how you handle stress, how you handle
Speaker 1: that level of discomfort in a way that is a
Speaker 1: little bit more, a little less short sighted, and aiming
Speaker 1: at a long term change and shift in your life. So,
Speaker 1: and I'll give an example of something that I did
Speaker 1: just recently. I myself was having a hard time just
Speaker 1: managing everything that you just said, because that's me too.
Speaker 1: A woman in her late thirties, two young kids, six
Speaker 1: an under and trying to build a business, trying to
Speaker 1: show up for my clients, trying to promote my book,
Speaker 1: trying to do all these things at the same time,
Speaker 1: while I'm like, oh, I'm ready to get fit again
Speaker 1: and I'm ready to spend time with my friends again.
Speaker 1: And I honestly was just having a really hard time.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Asia, what would you tell one
Speaker 1: of your clients. I would tell them to feel the feels.
Speaker 1: So I just sat there and I cried and I
Speaker 1: was sad, and I'm like, I'm so upset and spiraled.
Speaker 1: And then I did a really hard workout. And for me,
Speaker 1: when I'm in that kind of space, i don't want
Speaker 1: to do the workout. I'm not getting on that peloton
Speaker 1: bike like I can't wait to take this class. No,
Speaker 1: I'm cursing myself out. I'm upset that.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm angry, and midway through the workout is when I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you were making it through this workout. This is awful.
Speaker 1: This feels bad.
Speaker 3: Listening to the motivational Tune Day telling me what I
Speaker 3: need to do.
Speaker 2: Tune Day just too incandescent. She's just too stunning. Study. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's just like stunning, the bar is too high.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like, listen, we're not gonna look like
Speaker 3: Tune Day today.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, I mean, but that's why she got the
Speaker 2: job right aspiration.
Speaker 1: She's good at it. She is good at it. So
Speaker 1: sometimes I just need somebody to yell at me to
Speaker 1: crank the resistance and pedal faster and after that, and
Speaker 1: I'll be honest like I tap in and and cry
Speaker 1: while I'm on the bike. I cried during my workouts.
Speaker 1: I cried during yoga. I'm a pretty emotional person. I'm expressing,
Speaker 1: but that's what I needed to then release that.
Speaker 2: Oh you're one of those ones who gets a deep
Speaker 2: stretch and you like unlock trauma.
Speaker 3: Yeah, looking for that stretch.
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the stretch that just lets me get
Speaker 2: it all out because I watched those TikTok and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that looks nice. Let me try that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: It's mostly for me, honestly, and I think this it
Speaker 1: talks about what we're talking about right now. It is
Speaker 1: mindset for me because I'm not just saying, oh I
Speaker 1: need to get through this workout. I need to get
Speaker 1: through this pose or whatnot. It's you are strong. You
Speaker 1: can push through this. You have pushed through this before.
Speaker 1: You may feel alone, you may feel like you're the
Speaker 1: only one going through this, but you will be okay.
Speaker 1: And that's when I'm weeping, and it is just a
Speaker 1: reminder of what my strengths are and what I'm pushing
Speaker 1: for and why I'm doing this. So I'm having a
Speaker 1: whole internal therapy session on myself when I'm working out,
Speaker 1: because I really do believe it's about mindset and that's
Speaker 1: what I want people to work on. When you find
Speaker 1: yourself reaching for something that's a little bit more short term,
Speaker 1: I want you to start thinking about, hey, what can
Speaker 1: I do right now when I'm feeling so bad that
Speaker 1: is going to help me feel better even tomorrow, and
Speaker 1: that it could be something so small. You could meditate,
Speaker 1: you can exercise, you can take a shower, do something
Speaker 1: that is not going to be detrimental to yourself or
Speaker 1: to your finances. If you are going to feel bad
Speaker 1: about that coping strategy that you used in that moment tomorrow,
Speaker 1: then we cannot do it. I don't want you to
Speaker 1: continue the longevity of feeling bad because you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm mad that I did it that way. I'm mad
Speaker 1: I got out of that feeling that way because I
Speaker 1: don't think that's really what you want. You're trying to
Speaker 1: find relief, but not a lot of people understand what
Speaker 1: they need and that takes time.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, one of the ways that my anxiety was manifesting,
Speaker 2: like in terms of like the way I was coping
Speaker 2: with it after I had my two year old couple
Speaker 2: years ago. I would drop off my son, my older son,
Speaker 2: at school, and then I would like and you know,
Speaker 2: drop the baby off a daycare or whatever, and I'd
Speaker 2: have a lot of stuff going on to catch up on,
Speaker 2: and I would come up with a grocery shopping. I'd like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I need to go grocery shopping, and I would like
Speaker 2: spend and it doesn't feel like it's bad because it's
Speaker 2: grocery shopping, you know, but I would turn it into
Speaker 2: like a very long trip and I'd be out there
Speaker 2: for like two hours. Maybe I would go to one
Speaker 2: store and then I would go to another like Marshals
Speaker 2: or home Goods or whatever, and it would all feel
Speaker 2: like I'm doing it for the family, but I was
Speaker 2: also like avoiding, you know, the overwhelming amount of things
Speaker 2: on my plate, and the it's not just like the
Speaker 2: overwhelming amount of things, but the overwhelming amount of unfinalized, unanswered,
Speaker 2: unfinished things, like the open endedness, you know how those
Speaker 2: like it'll be an email thread and you haven't responded
Speaker 2: in a day, and then that becomes two days, and
Speaker 2: then it becomes three, and each day you're like, why
Speaker 2: haven't I responded? This is like so rude, and then
Speaker 2: you just that anxiety stops you from doing the thing
Speaker 2: and just responding. So that for me is something that
Speaker 2: I won't even say was is something that I continue
Speaker 2: to try and cope with. But what I've had to
Speaker 2: do is like identify what those behaviors are. You see
Speaker 2: me shopping at BJS. You're not thinking, oh, wow, she's
Speaker 2: really like avoiding some stressful you know, she's a business
Speaker 2: owner who's really just like cope, like trying to self soothe,
Speaker 2: you know, in the Hamper's aisle at BJ's right now.
Speaker 2: But I have to recognize, like it's like naming those
Speaker 2: behaviors and recognizing what it actually is. And that requires
Speaker 2: a level of like self awareness and self honesty that
Speaker 2: I think is really challenging, Like to actually get quiet
Speaker 2: with yourself and say this is something that I do
Speaker 2: to soothe myself, this is a behavior that I'm doing
Speaker 2: and for my own like for my own long term good,
Speaker 2: I need to stop this behavior and do something different.
Speaker 1: I so deeply understand that, and I feel like that's
Speaker 1: literally what feel good finance is about. Like literally, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm trying to help people do, is to
Speaker 1: take the time to get honest with themselves, to identify
Speaker 1: what the feelings are, what your triggers are, and then
Speaker 1: what you do that you don't really like that you're doing.
Speaker 1: So it could be yes, you can still go to BJ's,
Speaker 1: you can still go grocery shopping, but before you do that,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go call a friend and just be like, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm so overwhelmed, this is whild My email box is
Speaker 1: looking insane and I don't want to tackle it. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the grocery store, but talk me
Speaker 1: through what I'm eating this week, Like let's talk about
Speaker 1: like how I'm planning to go to the grocery store
Speaker 1: versus like I we really need this eighteen pack of
Speaker 1: toothbrushes from BJ's, Like we need that, right, yes, and
Speaker 1: we also need you know, all the things that you
Speaker 1: end up buying when you're in these stores that you
Speaker 1: can just if I for your family, and some of
Speaker 1: them I'm sure you do really need. But a lot
Speaker 1: of it, to your point, could be coming from your
Speaker 1: desire to self soothe and how you are self soothing
Speaker 1: through that, not even the stuff that.
Speaker 2: Makes me feel better. It's like it's just the time,
Speaker 2: Like I will go slow, I'll go up and down
Speaker 2: every aisle. It may not be that I spend an
Speaker 2: obscene amount of money, it's like the act itself is
Speaker 2: like it's it's a distraction. It's a distraction. I love
Speaker 2: what you said about like calling the friend in advance.
Speaker 2: I also feel like being able to well one thing
Speaker 2: is like being an entrepreneur and being at home alone.
Speaker 2: Everything does feel like it's so you're the only one.
Speaker 2: Like if I'm having a stressful day, I'm looking left
Speaker 2: and right. I got my dog who doesn't care, and
Speaker 2: the walls. Yeah, and it's don't you feel like sometimes
Speaker 2: it is? You can have all the friends and community,
Speaker 2: and I know black women one thing we love to
Speaker 2: do is build community. But sometimes when you're in that moment,
Speaker 2: it can feel like the biggest task ever to reach out, text, call,
Speaker 2: go outside, knock on someone's door. You know, which may
Speaker 2: sound completely forign to someone listening. You can feel so hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is.
Speaker 1: It is hard, And I think you need to know
Speaker 1: what you need right. So for somebody like me, I
Speaker 1: love to talk it out. I am a verbal processor,
Speaker 1: which is very interesting because majority of my life is
Speaker 1: built un listening to people. But for me personally, I
Speaker 1: do need to talk it out. I do need to
Speaker 1: verbally process like my thoughts and my feelings. So I
Speaker 1: know that that is going to be something that can
Speaker 1: help me when I'm having a hard time. But if
Speaker 1: you know that reaching out for help in that moment
Speaker 1: is going to be hard, let's find something else that
Speaker 1: is a little bit easier, that doesn't feel like it's
Speaker 1: going to be a new uphill battle. We want this
Speaker 1: to be something very easily accessible that you can just
Speaker 1: go to very quickly without having to think about it.
Speaker 1: And if that's calling a friend, great, I love that,
Speaker 1: But it could be something else before you get to
Speaker 1: that point. But the most important part of this whole
Speaker 1: cycle is to identify, Oh, I need to do something
Speaker 1: before I go to that other coping strategy that you know.
Speaker 1: I don't mind that I do, but maybe I want
Speaker 1: to do something differently.
Speaker 2: Hey, ba fam, we're going to take a quick break
Speaker 2: and be right back with more of my conversation with
Speaker 2: financial therapist Asia Evans. All right, ba Fam, we're back.
Speaker 2: In your book, do you talk about like the impact
Speaker 2: that the noise around us can have? Like you may
Speaker 2: be fine, but you good on your phone, you read
Speaker 2: the news and it's like, wait, the GDP's down this
Speaker 2: this month, this quarter, or it was down the first
Speaker 2: quarter or twenty twenty five, and it's like, oh, only
Speaker 2: one more, only one more down GDP And officially we're
Speaker 2: in a recession, but I won't know for another quarter. Right, So,
Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, you could feel very anxious
Speaker 2: and then you're like what do I do with this feeling?
Speaker 2: Do you talk about that? Like what would you say
Speaker 2: to people like me who are struggling with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the book, I don't really talk about that specifically.
Speaker 1: I do talk about the noise of social media and
Speaker 1: how quickly we can, you know, fall into comparing ourselves
Speaker 1: and go that route. But what I will say to
Speaker 1: you if this is something that you're struggling with shut
Speaker 1: out the noise. And that's the same advice I would get.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was me at six am.
Speaker 3: Right like, do not and I you know, I am you,
Speaker 3: you are me.
Speaker 1: We're all living the same you know, pattern of reality
Speaker 1: on the spectrum of the same reality. Do not pick
Speaker 1: up your phone at six am and start scrolling or
Speaker 1: looking at the news app like now is just not
Speaker 1: the time in our lives. You can go do that
Speaker 1: at a time in your day, but six am, when
Speaker 1: you're opening your eyes and you could potentially feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: today is a beautiful day. Going straight into our news
Speaker 1: cycle right now is not the time. There's nothing good
Speaker 1: there right now, like we're not finding it right now
Speaker 1: the headlines.
Speaker 2: Start that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah good. I don't I don't start.
Speaker 2: Looking, you know, like no, no, no, I mean I
Speaker 2: don't intentionally go to my phone for the news. I
Speaker 2: will go to respond to a text from my mom,
Speaker 2: which I was doing, or check I got some blood
Speaker 2: work results and I was like scanning through the blood
Speaker 2: work and then I start googling what this you know
Speaker 2: acronym means when I should just wait for my doctor
Speaker 2: to call me. And then next thing, you know, it's like,
Speaker 2: oh oops, I'm like reading some news that just popped up,
Speaker 2: and then yeah, it's like a it's a slippery slope.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: Also it's like one of my neighbors we had this
Speaker 2: like kind of we started this walking ritual that we've
Speaker 2: fallen off of, and I woke up at six' ten
Speaker 2: AND i, said, Oh i'm up early. ENOUGH i should.
Speaker 2: GO i should Textl in and we should go for this.
Speaker 2: Walk AND i was in bed on my phone until seven,
Speaker 2: Fifteen so over an HOUR i spent in bed on
Speaker 2: my phone doom. Scrolling yeah and, noo it's not.
Speaker 1: The, best but, again the dopamine is hitting in those
Speaker 1: moments right when you're. Scrolling AND i do think there's
Speaker 1: a time and a place for. SCROLLING i get, It
Speaker 1: BUT i also want us to, like, OH i can
Speaker 1: feel the breeze coming through my open, window look at
Speaker 1: the sun coming, Up like we need time to almost
Speaker 1: just be present before we go into. That AND i
Speaker 1: think similar to us talking about people struggling being, uncomfortable
Speaker 1: we really struggle to be bored as, well and that
Speaker 1: going straight to your phone is a beautiful way to
Speaker 1: just kind of cure that, momentarily especially when you're a,
Speaker 1: parent especially when you're working.
Speaker 3: Hard it is very easy.
Speaker 1: To be, Like i'm just going to disassociate into the
Speaker 1: internet for a little, bit and it feels. Nice it,
Speaker 1: does BUT i also want to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: creating enough space for yourself to just be, like, oh,
Speaker 1: OKAY i woke. UP i got to wake up on
Speaker 1: my own VERSUS i don't know about, you but it
Speaker 1: drives me nuts when my kids come Like trella lying
Speaker 1: in And i'm, like really, SLEEPING i do not do.
Speaker 2: No the two year olds be getting up at Four
Speaker 2: he's been getting up angry at four four am because
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to eat dinner and it's very. Frush
Speaker 2: so last night we both like he didn't he was
Speaker 2: like he was a baby. Again it's like he's looked
Speaker 2: through the.
Speaker 3: Night it was. Great, Yeah so it makes a.
Speaker 1: Difference so sometimes it is, Like, OKAY i want to
Speaker 1: go for a walk with my. Neighbor that MEANS i
Speaker 1: need to get out of this. BED i cannot look
Speaker 1: at my phone BECAUSE i know What i'm going to.
Speaker 1: Do if that means you have to turn off your,
Speaker 1: notifications sometimes you have to turn them off or let
Speaker 1: them just come to your phone at a certain, time
Speaker 1: that sort of. Thing so it is very, hard AND
Speaker 1: i want it can sound really nice when you're listening to, us, like,
Speaker 1: Wow asia had all these cool. Things that's not. Realistic
Speaker 1: i'm not doing. That do what you are what's gonna
Speaker 1: work for? You figure that. Out but WHAT i don't
Speaker 1: want people to do is feel like it's, impossible so
Speaker 1: they don't make any changes and then they're just stuck feeling.
Speaker 1: Awful so it sometimes it takes, work like you have
Speaker 1: to figure out what that tweak in your, life tweak
Speaker 1: in your habits is going to be that's going to
Speaker 1: allow you to feel. BETTER i mean you almost you
Speaker 1: kind of, like and this often, happens you sort of
Speaker 1: run through that list of other things.
Speaker 2: You could be. Doing you can, meditate take a, walk
Speaker 2: call a. Friend but, like let's slow that down a
Speaker 2: little bit and just talk through what that can look.
Speaker 2: Like so let's say this is the beginning of the
Speaker 2: month right, now AND i know personally that has become
Speaker 2: a stressful time because all the big bills hit at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the, month and you, KNOW i got
Speaker 2: to move money from business pay make SURE i my
Speaker 2: payroll runs and Like i'm the only, employee but like
Speaker 2: THAT i pay myself and like is there going to be?
Speaker 2: Enough and da da da, Da and it's so the
Speaker 2: last week of the month, before like the last week Of,
Speaker 2: april it can kind of just like you start to
Speaker 2: feel that like the weight and the anxiousness around. It
Speaker 2: AND i don't THINK i did the best job soothing
Speaker 2: that this. WEEK i THINK i. WENT i kind of
Speaker 2: fell back on some like old habits in terms of
Speaker 2: like not shopping and things like, that but definitely like
Speaker 2: internalizing a lot of. It so for someone like me
Speaker 2: or someone who's listening who knows that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of like, big you, know bills that are coming to
Speaker 2: questions that have been, unanswered and opening up the computer
Speaker 2: and just like getting the things done to get those
Speaker 2: things paid can feel really. Overwhelming like it can feel
Speaker 2: like a crisis in and of. Itself it can feel like,
Speaker 2: paralysis like in your, experience what of those like coping
Speaker 2: mechanisms that you talked about or other habits can help
Speaker 2: like break you out of.
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah i'm all that romanticizing something that you don't
Speaker 1: want to. Do so if it is like opening up
Speaker 1: your computer is your workspace clean when you come sit.
Speaker 1: Down did you get dressed that? Morning do you feel
Speaker 1: good about yourself when you're about to sit. DOWN i
Speaker 1: will get dressed for no reason When i'm not even
Speaker 1: gonna be on camera in any, way shape or. Form
Speaker 1: it's just me Because i'm, LIKE i don't want to do,
Speaker 1: This so how CAN i feel good doing? This SO
Speaker 1: i want to give that to everybody. Listening how can
Speaker 1: you feel good doing something that you don't want to?
Speaker 3: Do for?
Speaker 1: ME i REALLY i don't really love, coffee BUT i
Speaker 1: love coffee. Shops So i'll go to a coffee, shop
Speaker 1: get some, tea and be, Like, Okay i'm going to
Speaker 1: crank out this work THAT i KNOW i don't want
Speaker 1: to do BECAUSE i like the, vibes and the vibes
Speaker 1: are going to help. Me then start to do the
Speaker 1: things THAT i don't necessarily want to. Do so how
Speaker 1: can you romanticize you what you get to do and
Speaker 1: what you have to do so that it's not feeling
Speaker 1: so dreary and daunting and just, Know, OKAY i don't
Speaker 1: want to do, this But i'm doing this because insert
Speaker 1: blank here's good for my. BUSINESS i want to. GROW
Speaker 1: i remember waiting for the DAY i would be in this.
Speaker 1: Position i'm here. NOW i want to make Sure i'm
Speaker 1: providing for my. Family whatever it is for, you whatever
Speaker 1: your why, is kind of ground yourself in that before
Speaker 1: you go into doing the things that you have to.
Speaker 3: Do And i'm.
Speaker 1: Sure and especially all of us who are running our
Speaker 1: own businesses and, entrepreneurs there was a time where you
Speaker 1: were hoping and wishing and begging to be where you
Speaker 1: are at now and just grinding yourself and like younger
Speaker 1: you and just being, like you know, WHAT i get
Speaker 1: to do this BECAUSE i did all this work, before
Speaker 1: AND i don't want, to but that's okay because it's
Speaker 1: going to help my. Business so sometimes we just have
Speaker 1: to ground ourselves in, romanticizing you, know the work that
Speaker 1: we don't want to do as well as the work
Speaker 1: that we get to do because our business is at this.
Speaker 1: POINT i do like the idea of. ROMANTICIZING i also think,
Speaker 1: that like tapping into your younger, self sometimes it's hard
Speaker 1: to remember those things when you're in the tough, Moment so,
Speaker 1: like what are some strategies to help us? Remember, like for,
Speaker 1: example one of the things that has helped me a
Speaker 1: lot is slowing down and writing out and kind of
Speaker 1: answering some of those. Questions so, like is it maybe
Speaker 1: having a, prompt like having a little journal where you
Speaker 1: have some, questions like if you're in crisis, mode ask
Speaker 1: yourself these.
Speaker 2: Questions you, know what do you what do you?
Speaker 1: THINK i, Mean i'm a huge proponent of journaling and
Speaker 1: writing and brain, dumping SO i think when people, journal
Speaker 1: they always have there's kind of this tendency to be, like,
Speaker 1: OH i need a, prompt what AM i journaling? ABOUT
Speaker 1: i need to kind of start, it almost like a school,
Speaker 1: Essay And i'm, like, yeah that's, great you, know but
Speaker 1: sometimes you just need to get it.
Speaker 3: OUT i hope.
Speaker 2: SOMEONE i hope people never find my.
Speaker 3: Journal sometimes you need.
Speaker 2: To sometimes you have to write the worst things you've ever.
Speaker 3: Said that's what it's.
Speaker 2: FOR i pray no one ever finds my. Drum PRAY
Speaker 2: i need to burn.
Speaker 3: Them that's what they're. For i'm afraid of things That
Speaker 3: i've written in. There, yeah that's oh my.
Speaker 1: Goodness speaking of, That, LIKE i have a journal from
Speaker 1: college that my HUSBAND i think he picked it up
Speaker 1: or saw it and THEN i was, like, oh, yeah
Speaker 1: you could read. IT i had no idea was in.
Speaker 1: There oh my, goodness, GIRL i was going through. HEARTBREAK
Speaker 1: i had poetry in. THERE i am not a, POET
Speaker 1: i had poetry in. THERE i had like doodling how
Speaker 1: ANGRY i.
Speaker 3: Was it was just raw emotion in those.
Speaker 1: Pages and when he read, IT i did feel a
Speaker 1: little was, like oh my, god MAYBE i shouldn't have
Speaker 1: let him read it like a little. Exposed BUT i was,
Speaker 1: like you, know, me this was like twenty years. Ago that's,
Speaker 1: okay AND i can laugh about it, now But i'm, like,
Speaker 1: WOW i was going through.
Speaker 2: IT i found a lot of old letters from my,
Speaker 2: childhood AND i was, like you, KNOW i don't need these.
Speaker 2: ANYMORE i don't know Why i'm keeping. THESE i don't
Speaker 2: need to remember all these like really intense. Moments CAN
Speaker 2: i talk about you for a? Suck? YEAH i want
Speaker 2: to where do you come? From like how did you
Speaker 2: what's your origin? Story what's your story in j? General
Speaker 2: how'd you get into this practice that you have?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: Yeah SO i grew up in Upstate New. York that's
Speaker 1: that's WHERE i hail, from and both my parents are
Speaker 1: From New York. City so it's something THAT i always.
Speaker 1: KNEW i would always live there at some point in my.
Speaker 1: Journey BUT i REALIZED i wanted to be a therapist very.
Speaker 1: YOUNG i THINK i was, twelve and in True virgo,
Speaker 1: FASHION i literally mapped out the schooling that would need to,
Speaker 1: happen like WHAT i needed to do for years to
Speaker 1: get to a point WHERE i could be a practicing
Speaker 1: therapist and what that would look. Like and you, KNOW
Speaker 1: i did those, things you, know went to, college went
Speaker 1: to grad school for, counseling, psychology worked for two three years.
Speaker 3: In a day, rehab became a mental health. Therapist great.
Speaker 1: Unlcensed at that POINT i was living In New York,
Speaker 1: city which was. Great and then So i've been all
Speaker 1: over mental health for the last fifteen, YEARS i would,
Speaker 1: say just all over it anywhere from impatience and community
Speaker 1: work as, well LIKE i, said rehab, clients, kids, adults.
Speaker 1: Couples and Then i've been in private practice for about
Speaker 1: my goodness eight, YEARS i think it. Is so three
Speaker 1: of those were part time and then the last five
Speaker 1: years have been full. Time but it was also DURING
Speaker 1: covid and five years ago was also WHEN i decided
Speaker 1: THAT i really wanted to niche down into financial therapy
Speaker 1: and that happened by way of my own. JOURNEY i
Speaker 1: fell in love with personal finance WHEN i was living
Speaker 1: In New, york not understanding where my money was, going
Speaker 1: really struggling to, understand like why didn't have more money
Speaker 1: in my? Account why wasn't my credit card debt like
Speaker 1: just disappearing BECAUSE i was paying the. BILL i just
Speaker 1: didn't get. It and it's BECAUSE i didn't. Know and
Speaker 1: AS i went on my own personal financial, journey if you,
Speaker 1: will my, awakening that's WHEN i realized that my clients
Speaker 1: didn't know. Either my clients didn't have a place where
Speaker 1: they felt like they could talk about their, money feels
Speaker 1: that they could just be honest about what was going.
Speaker 1: On they would just be, Like, Oh i'm stressed about,
Speaker 1: Money i'm stressed about this, Relationship i'm stressed about my,
Speaker 1: family and then brush over AND i was, like oh, wait, wait.
Speaker 2: Wait come back a little.
Speaker 3: Bit let's talk about the money.
Speaker 1: Piece and nobody was talking about, it AND i really was,
Speaker 1: LIKE i need to learn more about. This who's doing,
Speaker 1: this who's talking about? This and that's WHEN i found
Speaker 1: The Financial Therapy, association which at this point Now i'm
Speaker 1: the president of the board to, them So i've been heavily.
Speaker 1: INVOLVED i found trauma of money and.
Speaker 3: Got involved With virgo.
Speaker 1: Energy It's virgo, overachiever eldest, daughter it's all.
Speaker 3: Here it's all, here.
Speaker 1: So and part, honestly it's part of my own money,
Speaker 1: beliefs Right, like even THOUGH i know it is not,
Speaker 1: TRUE i know that there's a part of me that
Speaker 1: does believe IF i work, HARDER i will make. It
Speaker 1: i'll be, Okay i'll get, there whatever that. Means and that's,
Speaker 1: true and it's not. True like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people making a lot of money who aren't working, hard
Speaker 1: and that's amazing for. Them BUT i need to figure,
Speaker 1: out you, know for my own self and my own,
Speaker 1: journey how to manage those feelings and the nuances of
Speaker 1: what that looks like for my. Realities so WHEN i, say, like,
Speaker 1: Listen i'm talking to my clients about you, guys but,
Speaker 1: LIKE i still have to go through it. TOO i
Speaker 1: still have to understand and dissect my own money, story
Speaker 1: and a lot of THAT i did talk about and
Speaker 1: share in the book as, well BECAUSE i always want
Speaker 1: people to understand that you're not the only one going through.
Speaker 1: This AND i think especially with, money it's very easy
Speaker 1: to believe that nobody else has been here.
Speaker 3: Before?
Speaker 2: Gotcha so you are your twelve year old selves wildest,
Speaker 2: dreams like you did. It. Yeah so the financial aspect,
Speaker 2: though in, practice what does that look? Like is it
Speaker 2: like half the session is mental health and like half
Speaker 2: we're going to look at your. Budget how does That
Speaker 2: i've never actually been through a session with a financial,
Speaker 2: therapist so can you kind of talk me through what
Speaker 2: that can?
Speaker 1: Look, SO i mean it can look like whatever you.
Speaker 1: Want i'm very client focused and client. Led so if you're, like, Hey,
Speaker 1: asia let's talk about the, numbers Or i'm telling, you,
Speaker 1: hey it's time for us to talk about the, numbers.
Speaker 3: Let's look at.
Speaker 1: Them THEN i will sit down with my clients And
Speaker 1: i'll take notes while they're, Like, okay these are my,
Speaker 1: bills this is what this.
Speaker 3: Costs let's build a budget. Together And i'll do that with.
Speaker 1: Them but before we even get to the, numbers a
Speaker 1: lot of the work that we've done is understanding what
Speaker 1: their money story, Is understanding almost like their money autobiography
Speaker 1: and what have they gone through in their upbringing that
Speaker 1: led them to where they're at. Today and that is
Speaker 1: When i'm pulling out different patterns or threads or themes
Speaker 1: that have happened and continued throughout their life and what
Speaker 1: might be impacting what they do with their money.
Speaker 2: Today, hey ba, fam we got to take a quick,
Speaker 2: break pay some bills and we'll be right. Back welcome,
Speaker 2: back bea. Faan let's get back to the. Show and
Speaker 2: are you working with like couples because Or i'm just
Speaker 2: wondering individuals couples both? Both? Okay do you recommend like
Speaker 2: if you're BECAUSE i just feel like if you're, married
Speaker 2: or at least you're living, together if you're co mingling your,
Speaker 2: finances if one person's in financial, therapy the other person
Speaker 2: has to be. RIGHT i think it's so. Intertwined what
Speaker 2: do you, think.
Speaker 1: Especially if somebody is. Married so there are times WHEN
Speaker 1: i have worked with people And i'm treating the couple.
Speaker 1: Right so they're coming to me as a. Couple we
Speaker 1: might be going through their money stories, individually just in
Speaker 1: a like, tripod if you, Will so it's all three
Speaker 1: of us here having that kind of. Conversation but the
Speaker 1: problems that can happen if it's somebody seeing me they're
Speaker 1: going through their money, story but something is getting lost
Speaker 1: in communication when they're trying to talk to their, partner
Speaker 1: or their partner isn't on board with what they're trying
Speaker 1: to do or how they're trying to do. It and
Speaker 1: Sometimes i'm, Like, okay let's have a couple, session bring
Speaker 1: your partner. In we're all going to talk together and level.
Speaker 1: Set And i'm able to do that SO i can
Speaker 1: see an individual and if they want to bring their partner, in,
Speaker 1: great let's chat about, it and THEN i can continue
Speaker 1: seeing that. Individual i've had people Who i've started seeing
Speaker 1: individually they're, like, oh, no we need to see you
Speaker 1: as a, couple and then then we transition into just couple's,
Speaker 1: work and that is very specific because we need to
Speaker 1: kind of close out that relationship And i'm almost like
Speaker 1: we're starting from square one as a couple BECAUSE i
Speaker 1: don't want anybody to ever feel. Slided AND i also
Speaker 1: make sure with the partner that this is SOMETHING i
Speaker 1: feel good entering into If i've had an established relationship
Speaker 1: with the other person. Before so there are a few
Speaker 1: dynamics that come into. Play but, yeah both parties need
Speaker 1: to be prepared to do this work and also be
Speaker 1: prepared That i'm going to be in your, business Like
Speaker 1: i'm going to be all up in your business and that's,
Speaker 1: Hard like.
Speaker 2: What do you have a dashboard or, something or like
Speaker 2: do you have to GET i.
Speaker 1: Don't because password to, It like LIKE i don't want any.
Speaker 1: Passwords i'm not touching your. Money i'm not looking at.
Speaker 1: It but WHEN i say, that it's a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't want to share how much they. Make they
Speaker 1: may not have shared their salary with their. Partner they
Speaker 1: have trouble saying out, loud, hey this is how much
Speaker 1: it cost us to run our. Life those, numbers especially being.
Speaker 2: Do you not do your taxes? Together how do you
Speaker 2: not know what You're some people don't.
Speaker 1: Know it is very. Shocking both parties in a marriage
Speaker 1: do not always know what's happening. Financially it just kind
Speaker 1: of gets done and that can cause a lot of.
Speaker 1: Tension and what happens is that a lot of couples
Speaker 1: don't talk about where each partner is coming, from like
Speaker 1: their history and why they act the way they do
Speaker 1: now in a partnership with the, money and that can CAUSE.
Speaker 2: Freto can you talk about some of the themes that
Speaker 2: come up for you when you're talking to, clients like
Speaker 2: some of THE i think you. Like the way that
Speaker 2: you expressed it earlier was like the stories that they're telling.
Speaker 2: Themselves WHAT i really want to know is, like out
Speaker 2: of the clients that you're working, with what's causing them
Speaker 2: the most just like mental health, Struggle like what's causing
Speaker 2: them the most stress financially and how are you helping?
Speaker 1: Them SO i would say money avoidance is a huge
Speaker 1: one for, People so that could be any money, Avoidance
Speaker 1: so that could be somebody is just totally avoiding their.
Speaker 1: Money they are not looking at their, bills they're not
Speaker 1: looking at their, Accounts they're just kind of, hoping swiping
Speaker 1: on a hope in a prayer and just being, LIKE
Speaker 1: i hope it goes. THROUGH i, Hope i'm, Okay but
Speaker 1: they're not. Looking so that comes up for. People money
Speaker 1: hoarding comes up for, people which is LIKE i am
Speaker 1: so worried about security or stability THAT i am hoarding
Speaker 1: all of my money in a savings account THAT i can,
Speaker 1: see THAT i can access any. TIME a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's not even a high yield savings, account so
Speaker 1: it's just a lot of money sitting in this little savings,
Speaker 1: account And i'm, like we have got to move that
Speaker 1: it cannot be, here and a lot of that is
Speaker 1: coming from growing up and having less or worrying about
Speaker 1: your financial. STABILITY a lot of that's growing coming from
Speaker 1: a place of nobody taught me what to do with this,
Speaker 1: money So i'm just going to hold on to. It
Speaker 1: and that's like a tomorrow mean, problem but it keeps
Speaker 1: getting pushed, off and a lot of my clients are
Speaker 1: just dealing with what it looks like to be making
Speaker 1: more money than their, parents live a different life than
Speaker 1: they grew, up what it feels like to potentially feel
Speaker 1: ostracized from a community while also trying to break into
Speaker 1: a different, community and that leads itself to a lot
Speaker 1: of identity work and just. Discomfort so When i'm working with,
Speaker 1: clients What i'm trying to help them do is understand
Speaker 1: why their past experiences are potentially harming where they want
Speaker 1: to go. Financially and sometimes they, aren't and sometimes they
Speaker 1: are and that's, okay but it's just not what they
Speaker 1: want to be doing. Anymore they don't like it. Anymore
Speaker 1: So i'm, Like, okay what can we do that's going
Speaker 1: to get you closer to living your best? Life what
Speaker 1: can we do that makes you feel like you can
Speaker 1: be financially well and enjoy the things that you want to.
Speaker 1: Enjoy because as much as we teach people to save,
Speaker 1: money we also need to teach people to spend money.
Speaker 1: Too so it's kind of this too prong approach of
Speaker 1: healing from some of the past things that you've gone
Speaker 1: through and understanding it's going to be a part of,
Speaker 1: you but understanding that you don't need to hold on
Speaker 1: to some of those old beliefs that don't apply to
Speaker 1: your life. Anymore and a lot of that is just reality,
Speaker 1: testing if you will Of, okay, well what's the worst
Speaker 1: is going to? Happen tell me what's the catastrophe that
Speaker 1: is going to. Happen that's going to mean that you're
Speaker 1: going to be, homeless or your money's going to be totally,
Speaker 1: gone or that if you look at your, money what's
Speaker 1: going to? Happen and sometimes it's, like, well what happens
Speaker 1: if it's at? Zero what happens if it's? Negative what
Speaker 1: happens IF i have more money THAN i? Thought i'm, like, okay,
Speaker 1: well guess. What we're still going to be in this.
Speaker 1: Office it's still going to be me and you on
Speaker 1: this video chat, together and then we're going to figure
Speaker 1: out how you need to cope with the feelings that come,
Speaker 1: up and we're going to talk about. It so it's
Speaker 1: literally just one foot in front of the, other and
Speaker 1: as you can, imagine it goes in many different ways
Speaker 1: and many different nuances to each.
Speaker 2: Individual you said people need to learn how to. Spend
Speaker 2: do we really, LIKE i think we got that.
Speaker 3: DOWN i mean a lot of us, do but not.
Speaker 3: Everybody not.
Speaker 1: Everybody i'm very, concerned especially and this comes in with
Speaker 1: people who are more like tend to hoard their money
Speaker 1: and they don't want to spend their. Money, yeah they
Speaker 1: do not want to spend their. Money they are very
Speaker 1: concerned about what it's going to look like in the
Speaker 1: future if they have. ENOUGH i wrote about in the
Speaker 1: book as. WELL a friend's father so different generation than
Speaker 1: my typical. CLIENTS i usually see people somewhere between like,
Speaker 1: twenty so he is, older but he was telling, me
Speaker 1: he's Like. Asia for, Decades i've been told to save this,
Speaker 1: money to put it in, investments to squirrel away from my.
Speaker 1: Retirement and Now i'm here and you want me to
Speaker 1: just spend. It And i'm, like, yeah like don't Spend
Speaker 1: you're not gonna go spend all of, it but, yes
Speaker 1: please go, Enjoy please go travel with your wife or
Speaker 1: hang out with your grandkids or your loved. Ones, like,
Speaker 1: yeah do what you want to do within your, means but,
Speaker 1: yes please go spend. It and that is a very
Speaker 1: large struggle for him and for a lot of people
Speaker 1: to feel LIKE i don't have anything, Incoming how CAN
Speaker 1: i possibly just spend the?
Speaker 2: MONEY i, mean that's what retirement is supposed to. Be
Speaker 2: but you're, RIGHT i can, Imagine like that's a big mental.
Speaker 2: Shift like it also is like it kind of forces
Speaker 2: you to confront mortality in a way that's, Uncomfortable, like you,
Speaker 2: MEAN i don't have that much time, Left So i'm like.
Speaker 2: Old is that what you're. Saying i'm not.
Speaker 3: Old i'm like, no But i'm not.
Speaker 2: Dying like you got to use.
Speaker 3: It you only have so many.
Speaker 2: Years, yeah use it before you lose. It. YEAH i
Speaker 2: was also thinking, about Like i've had to And i've
Speaker 2: talked about this on the, show like get back in
Speaker 2: touch with HOW i spend my money and like WHAT
Speaker 2: i value and making sure that like How i'm spending
Speaker 2: my money lines up with WHAT i SAY i value
Speaker 2: and WHAT i actually, value because for, me that's HOW
Speaker 2: i feel, Happier like with my, expenses like HOW i
Speaker 2: can at least look at it and, say, well that
Speaker 2: was you, know something it has to do with such
Speaker 2: and such THAT i, value like for, example spending fifty
Speaker 2: bucks on like a sound bath versus spending fifty bucks
Speaker 2: ON i don't, know the eighteen pack of toothbrushes At
Speaker 2: pj's and like seven rotisserie chickens or whatever cost fifty
Speaker 2: dollars At pj's and being able to like tie that
Speaker 2: to something THAT i, value like my mental, health like self,
Speaker 2: care you, Know like can you talk a little bit about?
Speaker 2: That and is that something that you've seen in your?
Speaker 1: Clients, yeah, WELL i think what happens with my clients
Speaker 1: and is especially because of the, location, Right SO i
Speaker 1: do believe that sometimes where you live can dictate what
Speaker 1: you prioritize and what you. Value SO i am practicing
Speaker 1: In New York. CITY i tend to see people who,
Speaker 1: are LIKE i, said twenty five to forty. Five so
Speaker 1: a lot of my clients are in the range of
Speaker 1: just preparing for what it might look like to have a.
Speaker 1: Family how do they prepare themselves to feel as stable
Speaker 1: as they can to start expanding their. Family and when
Speaker 1: you live in a city that really does prioritize going
Speaker 1: out or spending a lot of money or looking a certain,
Speaker 1: way it can feel hard to then, say, hey we
Speaker 1: can't do as much as we were doing before because we're,
Speaker 1: prioritizing you, KNOW ivf we're prioritizing saving for a, house
Speaker 1: or we just want to make sure that we can
Speaker 1: expand our family or take care of, family whatever it
Speaker 1: looks like for. Them SO i think aligning your values
Speaker 1: with how you want to spend your money is very
Speaker 1: important for people to do and to spend some, time
Speaker 1: whether it's, journaling thinking about, it making a, list to
Speaker 1: understand so that when you are saying no to some,
Speaker 1: things which can be very difficult to set the boundary
Speaker 1: outside of yourself to say no to SAY i can't
Speaker 1: Or i'm not going to go on that trip BECAUSE
Speaker 1: i have something else going, on to ground yourself and
Speaker 1: why you aren't doing the things that you used to
Speaker 1: do because you're trying to get to your financial goal
Speaker 1: of something. Else so a lot of that is fortifying
Speaker 1: people to understand why their values are so important how
Speaker 1: do they prioritize, them and then how do they set
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries with other people so that they can continue
Speaker 1: to prioritize them and feel good about.
Speaker 2: It, okay SO i know we don't have very much time,
Speaker 2: left so why not talk about a huge topic That
Speaker 2: i'll probably take in another, hour but, QUICKLY i the
Speaker 2: REASON i want to. TALK i want to talk about,
Speaker 2: shame financial. SHAME i actually got A dm from one
Speaker 2: of my cousins who hadn't seen in a, while and
Speaker 2: we were supposed to like see each other WHEN i
Speaker 2: was back, home and you, know for whatever, reason we
Speaker 2: didn't make it. Happen and SO i got this message
Speaker 2: After i'd already, left and she was, saying, LIKE i
Speaker 2: didn't know how to say, this But i'm actually having
Speaker 2: a really hard. Time we're in between houses right, Now
Speaker 2: we're really struggling, financially AND i didn't want you to
Speaker 2: think of us as, trash you, know if if you
Speaker 2: saw us and like it was really heartbreaking to me
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i could just feel how much shame she had
Speaker 2: for being in a challenging position and then you, know
Speaker 2: needing a little bit of financial help in that. Moment
Speaker 2: AND i at the same, TIME i was like proud
Speaker 2: of her for saying, something because the antidote to shame
Speaker 2: for me is like saying the thing out loud and
Speaker 2: actually admitting that you're. Struggling but it did remind me
Speaker 2: just of how much SHAME i think so many of
Speaker 2: us are caring because we don't feel like we're doing
Speaker 2: as well as we should be or as other people
Speaker 2: think we should be or other people look like they're,
Speaker 2: doing and that can cause a lot of. Suffering so
Speaker 2: how does shame kind of play into all of this
Speaker 2: and into your practice and working with your.
Speaker 1: Clients shame comes up so frequently with my clients and
Speaker 1: with money in. General, right it's not just like my
Speaker 1: clients who are coming to me to have these types of.
Speaker 1: Conversations it's, also AS i, know you know and can
Speaker 1: see and can hear from other, people people are just
Speaker 1: dealing with it. Silently AND i love what you said
Speaker 1: about talking about it and bringing it up is the
Speaker 1: antidote to, shame BECAUSE i completely. AGREE i think it
Speaker 1: brings us out of this isolation and sadness and gloom
Speaker 1: that we can create ourselves when we start to spiral
Speaker 1: in our shame to Think i'm the only one who's
Speaker 1: going through. This nobody else is going through. THIS i you,
Speaker 1: know then the terrible things that you say to yourself
Speaker 1: right start showing up to all of that, negativity and
Speaker 1: it forces you inward versus forcing you outward where you
Speaker 1: can feel loved and appreciated even though you are going
Speaker 1: through a hard. Time so it comes up a lot
Speaker 1: in my, practice AND i want to also share that
Speaker 1: it comes up not just when people don't have, money
Speaker 1: but when people. Do AND i think that is much
Speaker 1: harder for us to grapple with because we want to,
Speaker 1: believe especially In american, culture that if you have, money
Speaker 1: everything is, great you have no. Problems but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who have a lot of shame about
Speaker 1: being wealthy. Too AND i would say just as much
Speaker 1: shame as people who don't have the money when they
Speaker 1: do have the. Money so it's just a very complex
Speaker 1: thing that takes time to break up because it takes
Speaker 1: time for people to be vulnerable enough to start bringing
Speaker 1: it to light to Say i'm really struggling with the
Speaker 1: financial MISTAKES i. Made i'm really struggling with What i'm
Speaker 1: doing with my. MONEY i don't like, this And i'm
Speaker 1: starting not to like myself because of, it AND i
Speaker 1: think it can really quickly go down a slippery slope
Speaker 1: when we start to almost attack your self, esteem when
Speaker 1: you feel so isolated and so buried in your. Shame
Speaker 1: and a lot of my work is reinforcing that people
Speaker 1: are still worthy even if they don't feel great about their,
Speaker 1: money don't feel great about money in, general have had,
Speaker 1: debt are making a ton of, money are. Different it's
Speaker 1: about figuring out how you can still love yourself and
Speaker 1: how you can still take care of yourself even if
Speaker 1: it's not the way that you want to be able
Speaker 1: to right now to and also feel like you can
Speaker 1: have a community that supports you even though this stuff
Speaker 1: is going. On AND i want to be clear That
Speaker 1: i'm not, saying, hey get up on your soapbox.
Speaker 3: And tell the world about your financial shame and tell the.
Speaker 1: World, no it doesn't have to be all of, that
Speaker 1: but it could, Be, Hey i'm talking to my really
Speaker 1: close family member about this AND i feel really bad about,
Speaker 1: it OR i am calling that friend to just be
Speaker 1: sad and to just, cry and Then i'm gonna go
Speaker 1: about my.
Speaker 3: Day so.
Speaker 1: Pick you can, pick and choose who you share it.
Speaker 1: With BUT i really encourage people to start talking about,
Speaker 1: it because that's really what breaks up the isolation and
Speaker 1: stops you from cocooning.
Speaker 2: In, yeah talk about, it and then hopefully you're speaking
Speaker 2: to someone who could then encourage you on the step
Speaker 2: toward yeah, something, yeah you, know to improve the situation
Speaker 2: or just to like get through. It, well thank You
Speaker 2: asia for joining me on Brown. Envision, finally this interview
Speaker 2: is like a year in the making almost any last,
Speaker 2: words where can people find? You?
Speaker 1: So you can find me On instagram AT Ajae, therapy
Speaker 1: So i'm there on my, Website asiaevanscounseling dot, com and
Speaker 1: you Can Feel Good finance wherever you get your. Books
Speaker 1: but in, GENERAL i do want people to know that
Speaker 1: you're not the only one going through. This that whether
Speaker 1: it's shame or just feeling really bad about, yourself low self, esteem, depression,
Speaker 1: anxiety other people are going through it, Too and people
Speaker 1: that you do not expect to be going through it
Speaker 1: are probably going through it too and want to have
Speaker 1: these kinds of. Conversations so it might feel big and
Speaker 1: scary at, first but it doesn't have.
Speaker 3: To always be that.
Speaker 2: Way thank. You before we send folks to your. Website
Speaker 2: are you taking new? Clients, yes SO i. HAVE i
Speaker 2: THINK i have about three. SLOTS i have to double.
Speaker 2: CHECK i was at three to. FIVE i just took
Speaker 2: on two new, clients SO i THINK i have three slots. Left,
Speaker 2: okay go get, in Ba. Fam keep her booked and.
Speaker 3: Busy, yes, please.
Speaker 2: All, Right, asia thanks so much having me all, right Ba,
Speaker 2: fam thank you so much for tuning into this week's.
Speaker 2: EPISODE i want to hear from. You what did you?
Speaker 2: Think did this? Episode did it get to you or
Speaker 2: you feel a little less shame about your financial picture right?
Speaker 2: Now are you gonna maybe call up a, friend your,
Speaker 2: therapist a financial advisor and start chipping away at it
Speaker 2: and releasing yourself from that. Shame i'd love to hear from.
Speaker 2: You you can hit me Up bronambitionpodcast at gmail dot,
Speaker 2: com or you CAN dm me At Brown Ambition podcast
Speaker 2: AND i will be waiting for your. Message and, YES
Speaker 2: i do, RESPOND i actually. Do WHILE i got, y'all Ba,
Speaker 2: fam let me do a quick shout out to our
Speaker 2: incredible listeners who took the time In may so far
Speaker 2: to leave us a review On Apple. Podcasts oh my,
Speaker 2: goodness thank you so. Much all, right we have one FROM.
Speaker 2: Wgssf she says or he, no assume it's is?
Speaker 1: She?
Speaker 2: Yay? Moms Mandy, Love love love the episode about moms
Speaker 2: With reina And. JESSICA i love how honest and thoughtful
Speaker 2: your conversation was about the difficult balance that motherhood can.
Speaker 2: Bring thank you for your candid takes on life and. Money,
Speaker 2: Girl you're. Welcome if you all missed last Week's Mother's
Speaker 2: day episode With Reina campbell From dreams And drive And
Speaker 2: Jessica norwood From Sugar Daddy, podcast listen go check it.
Speaker 2: Out whether you are a, mom you want to be a,
Speaker 2: mom you like your, mom or you don't like your.
Speaker 2: Mom maybe it'll help you understand her. Better go listen
Speaker 2: to last week's episode and then listener our N optional
Speaker 2: says so good five, stars been listening for. Years mandy's
Speaker 2: handling solo hosting with great roundtables and continues to bring amazing.
Speaker 2: GUESTS i also love how vulnerable she is in her motherhood.
Speaker 2: Season keeping it real is how we support each. Other hell,
Speaker 2: yes thank you so. Much and To Ae jackson says
Speaker 2: Love Brown ambition five. Stars i've been listening To Brand
Speaker 2: ambition since twenty twenty and it's helped me grow so.
Speaker 2: Much every episode has something new for me to. Learn
Speaker 2: mandy does such a great job of utilizing personal experiences
Speaker 2: to make career finance topics feel real and, applicable AND
Speaker 2: i love her guests at THE Ba Brown table. Too
Speaker 2: can't wait to see how the show continues to. Evolve
Speaker 2: thank y'all so. Much please leave us a. Review you
Speaker 2: can leave it On Apple podcasts Or. Spotify those are
Speaker 2: the two best places. Review however many stars you, wish of,
Speaker 2: Course i'm always hoping for, five BUT i do read
Speaker 2: each and everyone AND i just can't thank y'all. Enough all,
Speaker 2: right until next, time BY Ba fam okay va, Fam
Speaker 2: thank you so much for listening to this week's. SHOW
Speaker 2: i want to shout out to our production, Team, courtney our, Editor,
Speaker 2: carla our fearless leader for idea to launch. PRODUCTIONS i
Speaker 2: want to shout out my Assistant Lauda escalante And cameron
Speaker 2: McNair for helping me put the show. Together it is
Speaker 2: not a one person, project as much AS i have
Speaker 2: tried to make it so these past ten, YEARS i
Speaker 2: need help, y'all and thank Goodness i've been able to
Speaker 2: put this team around me to support me on this,
Speaker 2: journey and to y'all ba, FAM i love you so
Speaker 2: so so so. Much please, rate, review, Subscribe make sure
Speaker 2: you sign up to the newsletter to get all the
Speaker 2: latest updates on upcoming, episodes our tenth year anniversary celebrations to,
Speaker 2: come and until next, time talk to you soon via.
Speaker 2: Bye