1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeartRadio, And I guess we 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: need to do a timestamp, don't I March tenth and 4 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: we missed, I guess technically saying anything about International Women's Day. 5 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: So happy belated International Women's Day to all the people. 6 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: Yeah out there history you know many things. There's so 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: many things. But you know, even though we're a little 8 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: bit behind, we're still trekking because what we do is 9 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: talk about women and talk about those who identify as women, 10 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: non binary people, all the folks who identify as feminists. 11 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: That's who we talk about. And today I thought we 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: would take the moment to talk about what is happening 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: and all the different movements that is happening in South Korea. 14 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: I believe I've mentioned previously some of the things that 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: have happened there, but I thought we do a little 16 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: bit of a refresher first. We wanted to give you 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: some context. South Korea has been hit hard with anti 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: feminist attitudes across the country the last few years, and 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: even though government officials have talked about changed previously, many 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: of the things have been ignored or outright spoken against 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: just recently. Yes, and also just to note, as with 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: many of these, is going to be some pronunciation difficulties, 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: but we're going to try our best. Yeah, pronunciations difficulties 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: and some hard issues content warning. Yeahhh. The current president, 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: President Yunsuku, used a platform of anti feminism to help 26 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: him win in twenty twenty two. He pushed an agenda 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: accusing misandry and the use of gender equality policies as 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,279 Speaker 1: the downfall for the jobs market, according to the twenty 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: twenty three report that was made by the Human Rights 30 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: Watch organization QUOTE. During his campaign for president, President Yune 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: made frequent appeals to anti feminist male voters, blamed feminism 32 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: for the decline in the birth rate, and pledged to 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: abolish the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, which he 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: is currently trying to dismantle. And Yeah. For a country 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: that is at the bottom of the list of developed 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: countries for the rice and safety of women, the latest 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: shift in feminism isn't good news, as in fact, The 38 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: Economist has ranked South Korea as the worst quote working 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: environment for women. The ginger gap for the country has 40 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: also helped keep the country at the bottom of this list, 41 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: with a gap of over thirty one percent. Many attribute 42 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: the sexist ideas as the reason for continuing discrimination, including 43 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: that women could get pregnant and oftentimes due to their 44 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: pregnancy or having children, they are forced to leave their jobs. 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: And many experts have talked about how not having more 46 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: women in the workplace is a misuse of amazing talent 47 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: and that the South Korean women who have some of 48 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: the highest educational attainment end up having the least amount 49 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: of employment opportunities or job promotions and any positions in management. 50 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of conversation about what's happening, but 51 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: the discrimination isn't just due to career in business. Some 52 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: of the biggest stigmas against women are based largely on 53 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: looks and unrealistic beauty standards. South Korea's makeup and beauty 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: brand and industry has become an international market, and much 55 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: of the advertising is about being the perfect woman, and 56 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: that includes complexion of skin all of that. In fact, 57 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: women with short haircuts are often targets of harassment and ridicule, 58 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 1: ridiculing them saying that they're lesbians, and even if they are, 59 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: I don't understand why that's the thing, but they continue 60 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to harass them for that, to the point that many 61 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: women have run away, and it has kind of become 62 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: a symbol for women and feminism to have that short haircut. 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, even if you're an Olympian with a short haircut, 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: you're not protected. They will come after you as well, 65 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: and we've seen that happen. But with all of that, 66 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: not so great news comes those who do bring some 67 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: light to this. As much backlash feminism may have gotten, 68 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: it can't be denied that there are those who are 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: pushing forward. South Korea had one of the most successful 70 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: me too movements in Asia, holding many officials accountable for 71 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: their harassment in the workplace. That includes them losing jobs, 72 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: being taken off of political seats, all of that, so 73 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: some things are happening. In twenty nineteen, South Korea had 74 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: a escaped the corset movement, where women publicly rejected the 75 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: Korean beauty standards. Activists and photographers like Jeong Bora have 76 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: done several exhibitions to quote destroy the socially defined idea 77 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: of a woman, which is what she told NPR. And 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: after the stabbing of a woman in twenty sixteen, many 79 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: women came to other in movements to spread awareness of 80 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: the wide prevailing harassment, including the practice of murka or 81 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: filming women in bathrooms or upskirt shots, where most of 82 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: the predators are men and oftentimes are released with little 83 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: to no consequences. And all the while, a woman who 84 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: took a picture of a and who often left a 85 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: classroom naked after modeling nude for art school, posted it online. 86 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: She was charged with jail time. Right, it was really 87 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: significant because nobody had been given this type of a sentence, 88 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: but because this man, who always known for publicly flashing 89 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: women in the after leaving class, was mad that it 90 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: was posted, and so the judge gave her a harsh 91 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: sentence of actual jail time, and movements like these are 92 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: still happening, including the four B movement. According to different reports, 93 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: four B may have started many years ago, but the 94 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: beginning of its popularity may have come around twenty sixteen 95 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: with the original idea of the hashtag no marriage lifestyle, 96 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: which became a little more complex, becoming more like boycotting 97 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: men and reproductive labor altogether. So the estimated number of 98 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: participants have been skewed from five thousand to fifty thousand people. 99 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: The title four B is a breakdown of the four 100 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: nos or B the wording Korean, which represents as the 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: following b sex, no sex, beach youll's son, no child rearing, 102 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: bon nay, no dating, and bijun no marriage to men. 103 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: So there's idea is that there's been no sex, no 104 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: child rearing, no dating, and no marriage to men, no 105 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: heterald sexual marriage to men essentially. And in this movement, 106 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: there were two women, Jung Say Young and Buck Hanna 107 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: two who were the ones behind the hashtag no marriage movement, 108 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: And obviously this idea has become more popular with their 109 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: outspokenness of the movement. I believe they have a YouTube channel. 110 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still going, but they did anyway. 111 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: And then the novel turned movie Kim Jong born nineteen 112 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: eighty two has brought a lot of awareness to the 113 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: movement as well and kind of started in a new wave, 114 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: not thinking that this this will happen in like twenty nineteen. 115 00:06:44,440 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: So it's been recent. Yeah, And the four movement could 116 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: be seen as the counter movement of the Ill Bay, 117 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: which came out around twenty fourteen and is in an 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: anti feminist group that assumes that women are gold digging 119 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: shall humans that benefit from additional rights and privileges, like 120 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: not being required to serve in the national military. The 121 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: FOREBE movement is about women finding emotional and financial independence 122 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: from men, advising women to save money on not buying quote, 123 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: self fashioning labor, to be able to live independently in 124 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: the future, and many of the four B women feel 125 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: this lifestyle is the only way to have autonomy in 126 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: South Korea and to push back on the misogyny of 127 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: the country right and even if the women in the 128 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: country may not follow all the ideas of the FOREB movement, 129 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: many feel similarly about the idea of marriage within the country. 130 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: With the possibility of the current government dismantling the progress 131 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: that was made earlier, such as abolishing of the Ministry 132 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: of Gender Equality and Family, many women are turning away 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: from the idea of family and children altogether. The birth 134 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: rate for the country has been the lowest in the world, 135 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: and the government really is not helping the situations, so 136 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: with things like the National Birth Map, which many women 137 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: see as an offensive tool that treats people with uterses 138 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: like livestock and yeah, there's been a lot of programs 139 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: to try to incentivize women getting pregnant is interesting and 140 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: with the many challenges organizations like for B faces as 141 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: the terrifying misogynistic environment that the government seems to be fostering, 142 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: they have challenges within the group as well. They seem 143 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: to be more focused on the issues as a single 144 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: issue of gender, and we know that could be a 145 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: problems women specifically just SIS women and not always being 146 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: inclusive on the trans community. Again, this is a newer 147 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: organization that we're talking about, so I'm not really sure 148 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: the bigger picture, and maybe for those in South Korea 149 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: or involved in the activism can let us know. But 150 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: there has been talked that there feels like there's an 151 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: exclusionary part to the trans community, you know, and if 152 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: we learned anything from history, focusing only on an issue 153 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: instead of looking at the intersectionality of these issues will 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: lead to more problems and very little actions. So hopefully 155 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: they will kind of come together and see that understanding 156 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: that it is not just a single thing, but in 157 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: order to dismantle it, you have to dismantle all of 158 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: the things. So right, all right, right, But there is 159 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: a lot happening in the country as the marginalized community 160 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: in South Korea continues to fight against the oppression which 161 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: has been supported outright by the current government, and many 162 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: are coming out to publicly show their support of the 163 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: movements against the suppression. In twenty twenty two, protests occurred 164 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: throughout the country to show the people's disapproval of President 165 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: Yun's actions and policies, and organizations like for b and 166 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: HEYL which is Korean for Tsunami continue to advocate for 167 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: the people in these communities. As the leader of Hayl 168 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: Lead told MPR, what makes me hopeful are my fellow 169 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: feminist friends seeing women like me who have short hair 170 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: with no makeup and women's rights protest that show that 171 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: we are not alone. Yeah, and we will continue to 172 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: watch what's going on because I feel like a lot 173 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: of the countries are going through similar things at this 174 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: point in time with our government. Yeah, and we're no 175 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: strangers to seeing what's happening feeling those oppressive ideals as well. 176 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: But we wanted to keep a tabs on what's going 177 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: on and hopefully there'll be some good news. There always 178 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: typically is, even if it's full's dark. Yes, it's always 179 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: look for the lights, you know that, you know the 180 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: whole thing I try, Yes, yes, well, yeah, well, we'll 181 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: definitely check back in on this and if anybody is 182 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: participating in this, there's more about this in South Korea 183 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: or were on the world. We would love to hear 184 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: from you. You can email us at Steffandia Mom Stuff 185 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter 186 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: at momsa podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff 187 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told. You can also find us on YouTube. 188 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: Thanks as always too, our super producer Christina, our executive 189 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our frequent contributor researcher TikTok TikTok or 190 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: extraordinaire Joey. Yes, yes, yes, thank you' all, Yes, and 191 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told us 192 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: the protection of iHeartRadio from more podcast from my Heart Radio, 193 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: you can check out the Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or 194 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.