WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 227 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.680 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.480 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.480 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.160 Welcome to it could happen hear a podcast about unions 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.000 falling apart and in this case, how they're not being 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.880 put back together again. I am your host, Bio Wong, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.080 and today we are telling a somewhat unusual story for 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:42.880 this show. It's usual in the sense that it's a 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.880 story about, you know, the replacement of democracy with bureaucracy. 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.400 If like the death spiral of business union, of unionism, 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.880 it's a story it's also as much about the defeat 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.320 of the worker's movement as it is like LaVar Jackson's 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.520 counting stats, a thing that it also bizarrely is about. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.840 And this is this is the story of the crisis 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.200 of the NFL Players Association, which is the NFL's union, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:09.399 and it is so unhinged that the only way that 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.559 this could actually be talked about reasonably is to bring 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:17.360 in someone who knows ball, and that is Charles McDonald 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.200 of Yahoo Sports and the Wonderful Football three o one podcast. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.560 Welcome to the show. This is going to be a trip. 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:26.640 Yeah, thanks for having me. I've listened to a few episodes, 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:28.240 so I was excited, and you asked me to come on. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.400 Love your work, and yeah, this is this is gonna 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.120 be a good rant because and not even really a 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.040 rant because because honestly, like when you like when you 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.960 start the Puel is Back, it is really like a 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.959 textbook case study from what we know on like just 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.600 straight up organizational decay. Yeah, like you get such a 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.080 clear picture on how just really a few people, in 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.320 this case, thirty two NFL owners can just completely dictate 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.640 the life of you know, thousands of people who are 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:03.120 literally really sacrificing their bodies to try and you know, 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.600 escape whatever poverty they come from in their in their 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.600 earlier life. So it's, uh, it's fascinating, it's sad. I mean, 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:12.960 this is one of those areas that I have obviously 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.280 because it's my it's my job. But you just like 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:20.800 extreme cognitive dissonance sometimes. Like I love football, you know, 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.800 I played from the time ill seven through college. Obviously, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.160 like I do this work. It's kind of giving me 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.200 like everything, and then you have to deal with just 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.799 so much bad stuff that comes with me. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:33.600 Yeah. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.560 Yeah, Like I remember like covering the Colin Kaepernick season, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.040 which was ten years ago as of this god right, 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.920 ten years ago, yeah, and just like seeing how alienating 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.760 that was. Just like just writing like a column saying, hey, 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.720 you know, Washington, like they should work Colin Kaepernick out 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.600 because they don't have a quarterback and this guy is 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.120 just a startable quarterback. And you would get like hate 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.400 mail over that stuff. But I'm still tuned every Sunday, 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.560 you know, Lamar Jackson stuff. I was on the front 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.160 lines for that, but still tuning in to get my 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.519 racest slop every Sunday. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.520 It's a fundamental issue here is people will still do 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.640 it immediately. I am mildly proud that I wasn't watching 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.280 that era, but I wasn't watching that era specifically because 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.799 the Seahawks loss Super Bolts to the Patriots, and then 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.960 I was like I'm fucking out after like eight years. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.120 Well I've been watching this stuff my whole life. Like 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.560 I remember watching like college football with like my dad 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.040 and his friends when I was like five and six 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.040 years Old's like, I like, legit just don't know anything 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.680 else to a degree, like I had to use this 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.240 sport as like my vehicle to kind of explore the 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.880 rest of the world, like once I got out of college, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:41.160 just trying to figure my shit out. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.560 Yeah, And I think we have a good combination here 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.880 to talk about this because you come at this from 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.839 the football angle and then exploring out of the like, oh, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.280 by god, this is so unhinged. Everything is broken. And 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.200 then I come at this kind of from the opposite direction, 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:55.920 which is one of the things that's been really frustrating 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.920 about the coverage of this is that like, like there's 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.440 lots of very good coverage. Pubble Tory done a lot 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.080 of very good work about this, and it's like the 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.880 guy who kind of instigated the whole. 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.160 Like instigators kind of put in it is put in 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:08.680 it lightly. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.160 I mean he got the union president fired basically. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.240 Yeah, he got the union president fired after it was 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.080 revealed that he was using union money to go to 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.359 strip clubs. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:21.640 It's like. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.760 That's like the tail end of this story. 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.520 Yeah, that's like the end of it. That's where it's going, right. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.960 But like, the thing that's been frustrating to me about 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.919 this is like the people covering this, and people have 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.039 done a lot of good work. Is there not people 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.760 who cover unions at all? Yeah, And like that's like 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:43.719 what I do, right, And like I don't know, like 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.200 I think as much as this episode is going to 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.039 be us screaming about this union doing unhinged shit, like 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.680 we're obviously like pro union. Like I had my union 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.640 that I organized on by show to talk about our 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:58.520 god dract against you. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.440 It's like, yeah, I was member of the first box 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.960 union that yeah, god damn that was almost ten years. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.520 Ago now is christ so old? 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.719 And look like I believe in this stuff, like I like, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.800 with the stroke of a pen, not to put it 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:16.920 that simplically because obviously a lot of fight went to it, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.080 but with a struggle with pen, like I was able 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.880 to live in DC after being there he broke, you know, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.360 and it's crazy like my salary went up to Liverpool 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:26.839 age and nothing. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.279 Died yep, right, you know, no one died. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.360 It was it was it was business as usual, honestly, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.640 Like nothing was weird. So obviously people who listen to 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.039 the show, like, you know that these people with the 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.760 money like they're out to get us obviously for their 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:47.080 own game. And it's so just brazenly clear through like 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.080 this union story, especially through the past twenty years, which 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:51.560 is where I think you kind of have to start it. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.479 I mean, just systematically stripped down. And the one thing 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.599 that even Pablo on his most recent episode, because he 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:00.680 talked about it last week because J. C. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.000 Tretter was elected director. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.520 One of the villains of this story power right. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.040 And and you know, one thing about like Poplo and 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.440 Mike Florio, who have really been on this more than 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.679 like any other national journalist, is like, yeah, we still 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.360 don't know a big component of like the why and 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.240 the how this is happening, because you know, well, we 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.480 gotta get into because basically it feels like there's two 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.240 two or three guys kind of acting as liaisons to 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.680 the owner while also trying to respect and you know, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.720 run the union, which are obviously just two completely incompatible 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.640 ideologies when you're trying to work that out. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.159 Yeah, I guess that's actually a way to start talking 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.240 about this kind of going back to there there used 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.960 to be a time when the NFL union would go 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.440 on strike, like they did pickets, like they fought scabs 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.240 outside of the gates of football stadium. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.120 This was a thing that happened like regularly. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.120 Like there's there's a whole bunch of stories of like 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.679 umw A guys and like guys from like the auto unions, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.080 like on these picket lights with the NFL players and 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:08.200 you know, like one of one of the sort of 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.880 upshots of this God, Okay, that's a terrible punt, I'm 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.600 realizing now because this guy, Okay. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.520 We gotta talk about Gene, you know, yeah. 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.600 Yeah, yeah, one of one of the guys who led 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.000 this union was Gene Upshaw, who was a player for 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.040 a long time and then was like ran the union 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:29.120 for most of its history. And he's you know, he's 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.960 running an actual union, Like they go on strike, they organize, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.560 they like do ship and you know, Jane like over 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.240 the course of this runs into like they start losing stripes, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.560 which is just like a nightmare, and then he just 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.840 like dies in two thousand and eight, like this is 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.200 really horrible cancer. Yeah. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.240 So so like not only like like Jane, Jane was 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.320 a hall of fame off intive Lineman. Yeah, Like like 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.840 when you think of the Raiders in the in the past, 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.520 like he was kind of like this start of that era. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.000 The only basically the only area where we still think 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.600 of the Raiders is like, you know, an entity that 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:13.000 should be respected, right, right, not a joke because because 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:13.520 you know, it was. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:14.760 A different time in the league. 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.840 Like especially when we see what the Seahawks sale ends 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.680 up looking like, and we've seen like the Broncos and 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.240 the Commanders get sold within the past decade. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.280 These teams are now being run by people who don't 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:29.520 have football backgrounds. 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.960 Like when you think of you know, even even even 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.640 someone as despicable as Jerry Jones, like you can't you 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.160 can't doubt at his heart that you know, he loves 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.760 this sport and will be an advocate to the sport, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.840 even in ways that that could be harmful to the 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.840 sport at times. But now we we kind of have 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.120 like this influx of people who don't have football backgrounds, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.280 but they have the capital to kind of get in 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.880 and that that has also been a shift, I think 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.640 just from an ownership perspective over the last few years. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.760 But when you look at Gene was coming out as 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.400 a player after he retired, and think in the early 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.440 eighties he kind of set the standard for you know, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.120 he wasted He was elected executive director of the union 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.400 I think in the eighties and he held that position 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.640 until he died in two thousand and eight. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.840 So yeah, he died in office. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.280 That's a long time and and it's a lot of trust. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.240 And also I think Gene kind of solidified the idea, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:33.640 which is important now that players should run this union, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.520 which I agree with. You know, yeah, that's what the 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.040 union is, right, That's that's what the union is. And 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.280 I would say even just like someone who played football byself, 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.200 like it's kind of a cult when you're in there 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.160 and you don't really really trust the outsiders to understand 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.240 like what is going on here on a day to 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.040 day basis. And also when you look at like the 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.679 start of this union back in the fifties, training camp 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.840 used to be free for the owners. They didn't get 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.120 for training camp or preseason games they played. They played 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.320 six free preseason games. Yeah, and didn't get paid for 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:07.920 training camp. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.600 Unreal, unreal, And like you can like you can get serious, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.880 like people every single year, get really really seriously injured 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.200 like it trading camp and in preseason games. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.560 And there was no free agency, right, so like the 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.840 team that drafted you, like they own you until you 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.320 know you're ready to call it quit till they trade 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.920 you somewhere else where they cut you and you kind 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.320 of got to figure it out. But like the idea 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.960 that you could just like have this agency and leave 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.200 and your contract expires you can go side with someone else, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.559 that was not a thing. So obviously, when when you 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.960 think about where football is now, like what I tell 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:41.680 people is like watch when they ask, like why should 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.240 I care about this union? Okay, think about how bad 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.840 it is now? It can get worse. It was worse, Yeah, 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.760 it was worse. It was significantly worse. But you know 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.800 you have like this idea that and it's a correct 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:55.959 idea because the players are the basis of it that 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.760 this person in charge of the union needs to. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:00.640 Be a player. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.560 And Gene, like coming from his background with the Raiders, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.720 we were talking about proud football organization, Like the very 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.920 like material basis of being an NFL player was extremely 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.240 important to Gene. So you know, up until he passed 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.760 away in two thousand and eight, I mean he is 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.480 you know, he's, like you said, he's leading strikes. He's 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.640 fighting for more revenue, he's fighting for you know, more 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.599 benefits on the back end after guys retire, and it 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.880 kind of culminates in the two thousand and six CBA. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.120 I would say, this is kind of like the Empire 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.079 strikes back moment for the owners because in two thousand 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.240 and six, the players in the owners, they signed a 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.720 CBA that on the surface granted the players a sixty 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.080 percent sixty percent revenue share against the owners forty percent. 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.520 When you start actually digging through the numbers. 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:56.640 And yeah, that's not fuck like, it was fake. 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.480 It was fake, right, So I'll say this, it was 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.240 fake in the sense that there was something called like 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.720 a revenue credit or a revenue a tax or something 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.679 that the owners took off of the pie before it 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.200 went down to like the sixty forty split, right, So 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.199 you know, and it's it started, you know in two 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.160 thousand and six, like I think the first time they 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.680 cut it it was like, you know, eight hundred billion 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.280 dollars and then you know, within two years they were 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.280 taking well over a billion dollars before it got passed 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.880 down onto the player. So you know, the players, they 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.840 got sixty percent of the total revenue. But by the 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.960 time you know that, they the owners took a second 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.480 look at that CBA and they used their opt out 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.200 clause in two thousand and eight. It was functionally like 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.559 a fifty one to fifty two percent split in favor 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:45.640 of the players, which the owners deemed completely unacceptable. Right, yeah, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.480 Like and it's so funny because like this is this 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.280 is like the first part like where you start to see, like, 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.439 at least in this era of football, you get to 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.560 see how greedy these people are, right where you're already 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.880 taking a top off of like this quote unquote total 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.319 revenue and then you're you're pulling the clause in two 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.839 years to get out of this. So in two thousand 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.199 and eight, the owners say, we are going to get 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.760 out of this, and now the CBA instead of like 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.160 the ten year clause is going to expire at the 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.679 end of the twenty ten season, so they had two 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.839 seasons to kind of figure out what was going to 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.280 happen next. But unfortunately, in two thousand and eight, Gene 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.800 Upshaw gets pancreatic cancer and I honestly just like just 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.360 deteriors pretty quickly and passes away right before the season. So, hey, 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.439 listeners of this podcast probably know what do billionaires do 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.040 when they see a power vacuum at the top of 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.880 their labor force that there are actively fighting against. They 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.920 pounced and you have this vacuum of leadership. And then 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.960 Damor Smith gets voted the executive director of the NFLPA 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.600 and the owners. At the end of the twenty ten season, 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.360 they locked out the players, and that's where things really 0:13:53.400 --> 0:14:05.920 starting to hear. You're dealing with that amount of agreed 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.120 where they're already taken off the top, and then they 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.480 say that's not enough, so we're gonna rip up the CBA. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.600 And the funny part was the twenty ten season like 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.360 the last year of like the ripped up CBA, since 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.120 they didn't have an agreement on the next year. There 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.360 was no salary cap toward the twenty ten season, and 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.200 Jerry Jones, owner of the Taboys, and Dan Snyder, owner 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.120 of the Washington football team. 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.200 Oh god, what are the worst people ever? 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.720 By the way, this is it, We don't time to 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:33.760 do this right up for like. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:35.360 One of the worst people ever. 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.640 So you're like, if you play Madden before, you know 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.840 sometimes you might turn off the salary cap and what 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.800 do you do you spend And because Jerry has always 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.840 been like, it's my money. Yeah, I'm gonna spend as 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:46.320 much of it as i want to if I please, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.840 like within the rule as the salary cap, no salary cap, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.520 Jerry's gonna spend. And the other owners punish those two 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:58.720 with fines after the season, yeah, for spending recklessly. That's 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.280 how committed they are to like this consolidation of power. 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:02.720 They will publish each other over it. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.040 Which which by the way, is unhinged because like so 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.080 one of the fundamental like issues of the NFL is 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.400 that it is a monopoly. Yes, Now, the way they 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.360 get around this is a they have the union and 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.560 be the teams are supposed to be quote unquote competing 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.360 with each other and they are not supposed to quote 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.680 unquote collude against the players. And it's like, okay, you 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.320 you find guys for paying people. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.520 Like right, like you find each other. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.400 Yeah, which is like just unreal. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.920 It's just like the boss offs collusion if. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.760 You look across like to the NBA, where like the 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.520 Kawhi Leonard and Steve Balmer stuff is oh my god, 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:47.040 another party, another politic exclusive but hey, there's a reason 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.120 why they are aggressively going after this, you know, because 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.240 the other billionaires don't want people rummaging through their shit either, 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.280 so you know, and ultimately they like the Microsoft guy 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.640 being part of the gang, so they're not going to 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.520 do anything. And that's when you see like, oh, there 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.160 is so much power here that these guys have. And 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.160 but going back to the NFL, like the twenty eleven 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:07.520 CBA is by. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.520 The way, CBA is collective bargaining agreement, is. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.040 The collect collective bargaining agreement right between the union and 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.760 the league, right, so if there's no agreement, then like 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.440 they can't play football games, yeah, because you know, like 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.200 you said, like the NFLPA functory just exist so the 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.680 NFL doesn't get sued for like anti trust stuff, which 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.800 takes us right back to the next point. So going 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.760 back to twenty eleven, the players are trying to figure out, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.360 like what are we gonna do about like this lockout 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.680 situation because they need to work. Honestly, you know, this 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.800 is a career that you can only do for most 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.440 guys like two or three years, and the idea of 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.560 missing a season is not really feasible, which the owners. 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.640 You know, they take advantage of all the time, like 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.160 they know that these guys are on short like short clocks. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.960 If you if you get to like year five of 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.120 an NFL career, you are in a very very small 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.520 group of players that like, honestly like just represent the 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.960 elite of the elite of people who have ever played 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.560 football like in this country. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:10.760 And I think the everything about this too is like 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:11.919 that's really important. 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:12.800 This is an. 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.760 Unbelievably, unbelievably skilled labor force. Yes, And in order to 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.200 develop these skills, you have to devote your entire life 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.320 to it. Yes, And then what you get from devoting 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.800 your entire life to this thing that is killing you 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.479 because you're getting injured constantly and you're getting head trauma 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.040 from all of this every single time. Like, so we 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.680 start from like high school, you're starting to get brain 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.040 damage from concussions, and from like you're starting to get CTE. Yeah, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.159 and then you have a couple of years to like 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.080 make money from having devoted your life to this thing. 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.760 Right, So think about like it's March of twenty eleven. Now, 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:48.960 Gene upshaws and pass away. For a couple of years, 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.639 they were in the fully in the demor Smith in 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.320 the more Smith's reign of union leadership, and the first 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.919 move that the owners make, like now that the CBA 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.800 is officially over twenty ten season, they lock out the players, which, 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.000 as we just said, if your career is two years, 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.119 the idea that you would miss one of those years 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.119 is kind of unfathombed. You're earning power is just like demolished. 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.639 And let's say you're you're twenty four years old, you 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.480 got to play two years in the NFL. You're walking 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.880 out with let's say a million in your bank account. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.719 You still got to get a job, bro, you know, 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.880 like you like, you still got to find something else 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.960 to do. So like, this isn't money that's going to 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.840 set you up for the rest of your life for 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.919 most of these guys, even though it does give you 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.760 like a nice cushion to fall off to, even if 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.399 you're someone who struggled a little bit. And shoot, I 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:37.840 know when I was twenty four, I would have loved 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.399 to have like seven hundred thousand dollars in. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:40.119 My main account. 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.320 Things would have things could have turned out, you know, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.720 maybe a little bit different. Probably still would have found 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.440 something some way, Like where I'm right here. But but honestly, 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.600 it's a good start. So what the union did was 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.480 a decertified as a union in twenty eleven, led by 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:02.120 Tom Brady and Drew Brees Falcons fan. And I will 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.119 say this part has given me so much justification on 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:10.600 my hatred. It's like it went past the football into 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.520 like the like the material realm of like real life. 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.760 You you, you guys messed up here. They tried to, 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:23.120 you know, challenge the league by decert finance union and arguing, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.119 you know that now this is an anti trust situation. 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:27.240 Blah blah blah, blah, bah blah. 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.560 Get down to August the time of twenty eleven CBA 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.280 in August of twenty eleven, so like this is a month, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:38.760 a month before the season, and the concessions that were 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:44.760 made after like after getting locked out for what six. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:44.720 Like five months? 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.320 Yeah, and you decertified that you go through all this 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.840 work to try and get a deal done, and they 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.960 gave up so much. So we said before you have 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.560 the total revenue split at you know, sixty forty, but 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.440 functionally it was closer to you know, fifty one fifty 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.879 two percent in favor of the players that dropped to 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.040 like forty seven percent in the twenty eleven CBAS So 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.440 now the owners are back in charge, you know, like 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:15.040 fifty percent split in favor of the owners. So like 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.600 you're you just gave them back like billions of dollars, 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.480 like over the course of really really just like a 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.199 couple of years, but over the lifetime of a ten 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.880 year CBA. I mean that that's that's egregious and also. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:26.800 The believable amount of money. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.520 Another thing that changed was Roger Goodell has now like 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.160 full autonomy over player punishments. 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.919 I don't know why you gave that up either. That's unhinged, right, right. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.760 That's like that that's the kind of thing that like 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.280 the like the only kind of unions that would sign 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.400 something like that are like, like I don't even think 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.640 the organized crime unions would signe out. I think that's 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:55.399 just like literally the fascist unions and the unions that 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.080 are directly controlled, like the yellow unions that are directly 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.520 controlled by corporation or like, the only ones that would 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.920 sign that, even those ones probably would want to still 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.240 have like some involvement in that. That's like unbelievable for 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.920 a union contract, just like right, nonsense. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.200 Right, And and what's changed here is like these players 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.200 are not willing to go on strike, like to not 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:21.560 play these games, to not have a situation like in 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.000 the eighties where you know, Donald Trump has built up 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.840 the USFL and saying, hey, why don't you strikeing players 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.800 that come play over here, and you you have some 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.600 some guys who were like NFL Hall of famers who 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.680 have briefly played in the USFL during you know, during 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.399 the strike stuff that that doesn't happen here. And I 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.840 think about the timing, Yeah, August was it August fourth, 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.480 twenty eleven, one hundred and thirty two day lockout they 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.639 signed this deal, so so I can imagine, And I 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.400 was like, I'll give them this. It's hard out here, man, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:52.960 like you're about to You're looking at yea, like the 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.040 consequence of, you know, I'm about to not have checks 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.919 and I maybe have a lifestyle where I am still 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.639 should be getting you know, these weeks to be paychecks. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.600 That's kind of a tough, tough draw. So I will 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.240 give them like the small grace of saying at that point, man, okay, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.920 fuck it, just let's just go just get something signed. 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.080 But what they gave up, I'm not sure like they 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.680 were fully aware of what they gave up here, and 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:21.680 the part of the biggest thing that where they gave 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:24.120 up was part of the biggest thing. After they after 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.200 I say they gave the money back to the owners, 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.200 they gave Roger Goodell, they made them dictator in terms 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:33.000 of like the punishment workforce, but the rookie wage scale, 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:41.879 my god, a massive, holy massive concession to ownership because 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.679 they they as in like Tom Brady and Drew Brees 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.879 more so Drew Brees from what I've gathered, kind of 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.119 framed this as, hey, why are these rookies getting all 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.960 this damn money? Like this is something that should be 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.760 going towards the veterans, and ownership was like, oh, you 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.399 see it. You think like you think that's a good idea, 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.199 Like we can agree, we can agree to that. And 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:06.359 what they got back was like less practice time, so 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.479 you know, you know, you don't have to have as 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:09.480 many two a days. 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:12.000 That's worth billions of dollars. 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:14.040 Really like in terms of like what you what you 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.359 guys can set yourself up with and what the what 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.920 the veteran players who were on board with this, what 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.600 they thought was, oh okay, well if the rookie wages. 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.200 If the rookie wages deal like that, if that gets 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.680 capped at a certain amount, then that's more money for us. 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.719 So like the like a prime example is in twenty ten, 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:34.920 Sam Bradford was a number one overall pick to Saint 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.880 Louis Rams. He signed a six year, eighty four million 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:41.280 dollar contract. So the next year, Cam Newton is the 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.760 first overall pick to the Caroline Panthers, and after this 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.040 lockout ends, his contract was four years, twenty two million 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:48.320 dollars fully guaranteed. 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:49.560 She's christ. 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.640 You lost sixty million dollars in terms of value from 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.840 the year before. So what what the players, what the 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.040 veteran players thought was, oh, okay, well now there'll be 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.119 this influx of cap space to sign veteran players. What 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.280 do billionaires do when they suddenly have access to a 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:10.520 cheap workforce. They just loaded up on rookies, right, So 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.600 these veteran players they sold themselves on like the fallacy 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:18.760 of trickle down economics and got themselves replaced out of 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.240 the league. So the only people at this benefit really 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.480 was people like Drew Brees, people like Tom Brady who 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.640 don't need it, right and but also are so indispensable 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.680 to their organizations that they can eat up the cap 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:34.920 space that was left over from the rookies game signed. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:36.720 So that's like that's when you start to see like 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.240 the quarterback contracts balloon up. Where you know, you go 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:45.000 from like in twenty fifteen, eleven years ago or twenty sixty, 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:47.360 I think Cam Newton signed a contract that made him 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:50.400 the highest paid quarterback in NFL history at five years, 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:53.080 one hundred million dollars. Oh my god, you know, and 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:57.520 now that number is what like, I think, man, who's 0:24:57.520 --> 0:24:57.960 the high paid? 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.320 Is Joe Burrow the highest paid right now? At I 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:01.399 feel like it's Burrow? 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:02.920 Yeah that sounds right. 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:06.200 But now like that deal is worth you know, closer 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.680 to eighty million, you know, seventy million dollars a year 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:12.320 than it is to anything like closer to twenty Yeah, 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:15.359 so you gave up so much and you got this 0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:19.040 whole middle class of the league just decimated, and and yeah, 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:21.600 like that that's still tangible today. You can just go 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.240 on over the CAAP dot com or a stock track 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.600 dot com and just look at like like average money 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:29.679 like per year, and there's a top and then the 0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:33.119 middle class is literally like a couple players, and for 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.000 quarterback it's like two or three guys like you have 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:38.879 like announce like a Molik Willis or a Daniel Jones, 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.840 like forty like as crazy as to say, like forty 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:44.600 four million dollars, Like that's outside the top half of 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:47.960 what guys are getting paid. And then it's all rookies yep, 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:51.520 like all rookies and guys on rookie contracts. There's no 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.399 middle class like that that's gone from the NFL. And 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:58.639 with that, like you lose some of like like personally 0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:00.159 this is vide like you lose some of them, like 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.080 the wisdom that comes with that of guys who have 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.040 played in the league because now now they're getting turned 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:07.520 out so fast because the contract is so cheap. Yeah, 0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:09.880 I'm not going to extend you because honestly, this game 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.560 beats your body up so bad that it's better just 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:15.560 to get a fresh body in there. And these people, 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.760 they have no attachment to the sacrifices that have been 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:21.399 built over a long time. So you kind of build 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:25.000 this player force that doesn't know what's going on. 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:26.800 And I say that with. 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:28.199 A grain of salt now because I used to be 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:30.040 one of these guys like, oh you know, they don't 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:32.200 care what's going on, and there is a good chunk 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:35.080 that don't care what's going on. But I think now 0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:39.920 it's more clear there's like an obvious force stopping them 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:45.040 from getting like information about what's going on with this 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:48.119 union stuff, which is the meat of this. Like the 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.280 recent stuff is just like the ultimate just fucket. I 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:53.280 guess we're ponds of the ownership stuff. 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:53.480 You know. 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.240 I think the arc of this is like it's it's 0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:08.679 the arc of sort of unionism in America. You know, 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.200 you go back to like your early nineteen hundreds unions, right, 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:17.760 and those unions, you know, they're unbelievably powerful. They're extremely dangerous. 0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:19.359 You know, you get to a point where like the 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:21.760 IWW will show up to a town and like the 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:23.560 bosses in the town will show up with guns and 0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:27.240 shoot them because they're that well organized, they're that dangerous, 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:29.920 they're that capable of striking, they're that committed, and they're 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:33.760 that able to tap into all of their members and 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.240 have everyone in the union be a part of the 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.159 union and do things with the union. And that's you know, 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:42.439 how you can actually do collective action. And then and 0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:44.479 you can watch this with sort of like with the 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:48.200 ability of NFLPA, like obviously like that's a much weaker union. 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:50.520 Then you're like, yeah, I don't know, you're like nineteen 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:54.800 thirty CIO or whatever. Yeah, but you can watch it 0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:57.320 like sort of decay into this sort of you know, 0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:00.280 what you call like a service union, where in instead 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:02.960 of it being run by the players, there's like, okay, 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:04.960 we're we have some people. They're going to go they're 0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:06.800 going to do everything for you. They're going to sometimes 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.280 talk to you about it, but you know, like they're 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.600 going to be the runs, like managing all of the 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:14.359 contracts and all of the negotiations and like right, and 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.879 as it like information circle gets tighter and tighter, you know, 0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:20.400 that makes it way easier for things to just get 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:22.720 completely fucked. And then then you know, and this is 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:24.480 one of the things that you see in the nineties 0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:27.800 is the complete dominance of business unionism where it's like, nah, 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.639 fuck it, we're a union, yeah, right, the us on 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.520 the employers actually have the same interest and we're going 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:34.240 to work with them to make money. And it's like 0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:36.680 how is that going for you? Guys like I E. 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:39.520 And then that's what this sort of turns into and 0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:41.760 one of the issues here, and you're talking about this 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:44.880 with like the information control is what once you get 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:49.280 into this situation where you know a really really small 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.640 number of people, like we're talking maybe thirty people, and 0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:54.760 then the executive committees even smaller than that, are the 0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:56.360 ones who are you know. One of the things that 0:28:56.400 --> 0:29:00.440 happens in the later part of this is so JC Shredder, 0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:03.480 who's like the guy behind the scenes for like the 0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:06.800 executive just the search for like the executive director, the 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:11.080 guy who like completely truly was like the most hideous 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:13.960 guy I've ever had running this union. He changed the 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.920 process so that it was completely confidential, to the point 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.880 where the three two guys on the board who were 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:23.040 supposed to be voting for the executive director didn't know 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:26.720 the names of the candidates until they walked into the meeting, Right, 0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:28.840 what the fuck? 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.120 And to me, like that point is like so crucial 0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.520 because that's where I ship from. Oh, it's not that 0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:37.479 the guys don't care about this, like they don't know 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:38.360 what's going on. 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:40.120 Yeah, it's being hidden from them. 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.200 They can't know, they can't know. 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:44.840 And and I will say, like part of what makes 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:47.800 this difficult if you are someone in there who does 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:51.080 care and wants to wants to fix things. Is they're 0:29:51.120 --> 0:29:53.920 just the truth that like even the bottom rung players 0:29:54.000 --> 0:29:57.600 are comfortably living like off of their salaries. So when 0:29:57.640 --> 0:29:59.440 you start to get to guys who are veterans, like 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:02.760 and even if you don't take the best deal shit, 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:06.200 like what I'm still making fifteen million dollars a year, Like, 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:10.240 ultimately I'm still good. And that's what it's hard to 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:14.800 like get people galvanized about this sometimes. But I think 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:18.440 that that part about like players not caring has kind 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:21.200 of been overrepresented a little bit because I think if 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:24.720 you're paying attention now, there's so much murkiness. And I 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.920 think when when you get to like the recent CBA 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:31.680 is like in twenty twenty, the COVID year one, So 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:33.840 now that's like the more Smith and J. C. Tredder 0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:35.240 who was playing for the Browns and then he was 0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:38.760 the president of the NFLPA as they enter like this 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:40.880 this twenty twenty CBA at the end after the end 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:44.680 of the twenty eleven ten year run where for ten 0:30:44.760 --> 0:30:47.760 years they locked themselves into owners Chasepion to extract like 0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:50.600 as much value, yeah as as it seemed like they 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:54.040 possibly could at the time, and then twenty twenty comes 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:56.880 and the owners are basically just like, hey, there's gonna 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.600 be another lockout unless you guys agree to a seventeenth game, 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:04.200 which you should say that okay, cool, because there's no 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:08.080 circumstance where you you can walk the football and know 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.560 how horrible this game is for your body and say 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:15.920 we are going to play more football without like major concessions. Yeah, 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:17.720 because I remember when that was going on, you know, 0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:19.360 I was talking to some older guys who weren't in 0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:21.160 the unit anymore, but they were looking at it like, 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:24.480 man like if they're if they're gonna say seventeenth game, 0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:27.840 like we need something massive like giving back to us 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:30.680 on the other hand, because that's just straight up a 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:32.640 revenue play to get more games on TV and make 0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:34.080 these TV contracts a. 0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:35.120 Little bit more lucrative. 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:40.440 And that didn't really happen, you know, like no, like 0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.360 they just gave up the seventeenth game and they got 0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:45.120 I think one percent more in terms of like the 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:46.760 rev share, so it got to like forty eight or 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:47.600 forty nine percent. 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.400 It's like, yeah, like that's it you. 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:55.360 Share for adding Like what what what's the percent game added? 0:31:55.400 --> 0:31:57.560 To the season like right. 0:31:57.480 --> 0:31:59.600 And and like there were some concessions made to like 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:03.160 players made at the bottom rung of the ladder, so 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:06.880 like like the veteran minimum salaries, like they got boosted, 0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.800 the practice squads got a little bit longer, and now 0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.560 you got into the space where you see, like veterans 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:15.600 can be on a practice squad instead of guys who 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:19.080 are within like three years of you know, accrued years 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:23.760 in the NFL. But the seventeenth game while still having 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:27.960 inequity in terms of the revenue share, I mean, the owners, 0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:30.800 they'll sign up for that every single time. Oh we 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.000 got to throw your crumbs, yep, and we still get 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:35.880 to keep our billions. And they timed it up right, 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:40.360 so that seventeenth game being inserted into the schedule was 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:43.760 lining up with new TV contracts with ESPN and NBC 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:48.440 and Amazon everyone. You see, like throwing cash is so understated, 0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:51.920 Like if not throwing cash, like billions of dollars is 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:54.160 going to the NFL. Yeah, through these TV deals. Like 0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:57.360 it's funny. I had a friend, you know, one of 0:32:57.360 --> 0:32:59.800 these Shador Sanders stands. He was arguing like, oh you know, 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:03.040 he was like, oh, you know, like the Browns like 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.480 they took Shador because they need the jersey sales. I'm like, dude, 0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:09.000 Chador could have the number one selling jersey in the NFL, 0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:12.120 and Jimmy hasn't didn't care about that. That's a drop 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:14.480 of a drop of a drop in the market for 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:16.720 like where the money's actually coming from, and that's the 0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:21.040 TV deal. So to get that seventeenth game is huge, 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.120 And this term is for ten years again, so in 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:29.120 twenty thirty they can look at, you know, renegotiation trying 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.840 to figure it out. But in the meantime, like to 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:35.440 even call this a union is so far away from 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:36.840 like how it's actually functioning. 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:37.360 Now. 0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:39.080 It's getting to the part like where it's kind of 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:42.400 murky on what's happening. Because obviously, like if you're in 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:46.280 a union and you know, like my coworkers, like they've. 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:46.760 Dealt with J. C. 0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:49.160 Tradder, like I've seen him speak before, if you're in 0:33:49.200 --> 0:33:52.120 a union, obviously, like you don't want too many people 0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:54.000 outside of the union to know what's going on. Like 0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:57.760 it's just not good from a standpoint of like leverage 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:02.120 and power. But JC Tredder like he plays off of 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.920 that by keeping everything a secret. 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.720 You know, Yeah, which is a terrible idea, which is 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:10.200 a terrible idea, Like yeah, well it's good for him, 0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:12.239 right right, right, Like maybe you. 0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:14.440 Don't want to tell me a reporter like what's going on, 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:17.120 but you should tell like the other people within your 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:19.440 union what's going on. Like when you see like a 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.520 lack of information about or any information about, like what's 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.279 going on with these with these elections, it's because no 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:28.600 one's being told what's going on these elections. 0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:32.120 And that's how you end up with Lloyd Howe, which 0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:34.439 is just dude. 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.480 Oh god, okay, okay, let let's let's talk about Lloyd Howell, 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:41.880 who is oh my god, yeah, one of the worst 0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:44.799 people to run a union I have ever seen. 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:49.400 Yes, but it's purposefullly bad, you know, Like, yeah, the 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:53.080 Lloyd Howell like a secret election, Like it's not not 0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:55.200 even to say, like I was, you know, somewhat somewhat 0:34:55.200 --> 0:34:57.640 of a secret now a secret of election basically to 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:02.799 get Lloyd Howell hired what he somewhere for Booze Allen Man. 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:07.279 Yeah he was. He was the CFO of booz Allen Hamilton, right, 0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:10.960 Like his background was in busting unions. 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.799 Uh huh, right, that's his background. Yeah, and this, but 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:16.680 this is where you get like such a look at 0:35:16.680 --> 0:35:19.760 the ideology of someone like J. C. Tratterer, who also 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.600 studied labor unions in college. That's what you guys, degree 0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:25.640 in labor labor relations and labor rangement from Harvard. 0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:30.080 Yep, yeah, you're not. You're not doing the the labor 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:33.160 relations degree to like being a union. Like like the 0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:36.120 people the people who like organize for unions are like 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:39.920 fucking grad students who you know, have like a I 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.760 don't know like they have they have some random degree 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:44.760 and then they were like, fucking I organized my graduat 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:46.640 you know, I'm gonna go organize the field. This is 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:48.120 not what you go into that for. You go into 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.120 this union busting. 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:49.680 Yeah. 0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:53.000 So, but so J. C. Trader and you know, the 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:57.040 people around him they viewed that experience from Wood Howell 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:01.279 and busting unions as a positive. Yeah, because you know, 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:04.680 there's this train of thought like oh, well, you know, well, 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:06.799 if we know someone who knows how to destroy us, 0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:09.680 if we hire them, surely they will change their ways 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.080 and they will start to help us. Like we're going 0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:14.359 to get inside knowledge on how to bust a unit. 0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:17.120 So maybe we could weaponize that and turn it back 0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:20.160 the other way. Man, that's dumb as hell, Like that's 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:23.800 oh my god. Right, and not only that, but but 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:27.200 but how who who? Who is elected the executive director 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:30.719 of the union is also a part of a hedge 0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:34.640 fund that is investing in NFL teams in minorities. 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:36.239 Yeah, the Carlisle Group. 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:41.880 Like you, you're an executive director of the union works 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:46.160 for hedge funds that are extracting value from these teams, 0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:47.640 like like true players. 0:36:48.000 --> 0:36:52.040 Yeah, that's that's disqualifying, Like it should be disqualifying. 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:53.280 She's on camera. 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.680 The union posted a video of him on camera talking 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:58.719 about how he was talking to the owners about letting 0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:00.000 about letting the investment group. 0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:02.560 Yes, it's unbelievable. 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:05.279 It's as close as I've ever seen outside of again, 0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:08.360 a union that is literally run by the bosses to 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:12.760 like my union guy works for managements. Like it's like baffling. 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.239 I don't know, It's like it's like State integrated CCP shit, right, 0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:18.520 Like it's like, dude, yes, you have. 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:20.279 A corporate consultant? 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:25.600 Is your union liaison to thirty two billionaires and Roger Goodell? 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:30.280 Like yeah, it's it's completely incompatible on like a basic 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.640 like ideological level, and then you start getting to like, well, okay, 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.080 well now he has like direct control over people's lives 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:39.440 and the funds of the union, which, as ESPN and 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:42.440 Paulo Tooria found out, he was using to go to 0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:45.080 the goddamn strip club in Miami, Yeah, and to spend 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:49.600 on other stuff. And also he was sued for sexual 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.760 harassment while he was at Booz Allen. So he's hidden 0:37:52.800 --> 0:37:55.920 like the check marks for everything you see like corporate sociopathy, 0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:59.359 right yeah, and they're like, that's our guy, that's our guy. 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:01.360 Once all this stuff comes out about how he spends 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.879 his money and you know, how he's misappropriating funds, that 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:08.480 was what got him out, more so than like the 0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:11.920 material practices that he accept the five while he was 0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:16.000 running the union, which involved, yeah, hiding the fact that 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:17.759 the owners were colluding against them. 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:22.839 It is completely unhinged. And unfortunately, the other thing that's 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:25.960 unhinged is that's going to be all for today. However, 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:30.360 come there is more to this story tomorrow, as we 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:35.960 finished part two of this interview, and oh my god, 0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:40.160 holy shit, somehow the worst is yet to come. So 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:44.439 join us for part two tomorrow, in which question Mark 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.880 there seems to be good evidence of the NFL paying 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.759 a guy specifically to be able to keep control of 0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:54.120 the union. Oh dear, So if you if you want 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:57.040 to find more of Charles McDonald's work, you can do 0:38:57.200 --> 0:38:59.600 so at the Football three h one podcast and at 0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:02.080 Yeahoo Sports, where he writes to call them for verts. 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:06.480 It's quite good. You should listen to it. And yeah, 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:09.920 dear god, I don't know foreign unions. If you're in 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:27.560 unions that suck, make better ones, welcome to it could 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:31.960 happen here podcast about the most unhinged union story I 0:39:32.000 --> 0:39:36.239 have ever covered. I am your host, Mio Wong, and 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:40.360 in a moment we will return to my interview with 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:44.440 Yahoo Sports journalist Charles McDonald. So if you have not 0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:46.440 listened to the last episode, you should listen to the 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:49.560 last episodes. We can get you up to the twenty 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:55.800 twenties in terms of the horrifying and depressing story of 0:39:56.320 --> 0:40:01.600 the NFL Players Association's leadership graduate selling out more and 0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:05.399 more of their players. And in this episode we're going 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:09.360 to really sort of get down to the brass tax 0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:13.120 of what's been happening in the twenty twenties and answering 0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:17.279 the question to what extent has the NFL paid in 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:21.080 order to have a pro management regime installed at the 0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:27.160 head of the union, a question that is really distressingly. 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:30.880 We have good evidence of this, but before we can 0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:32.560 get to that, we need to talk about one of 0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:37.160 the other absolutely horrifying things that this union regime has done, 0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:43.839 and that is the union covering up as reported by Publictoria. Originally, 0:40:44.480 --> 0:40:49.239 it reports by an arbitration judge about whether or not 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:52.759 the independent teams in the NFL, which are supposed to 0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:55.400 be businesses competing against each other. And I kind of 0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:57.839 emphasize this enough because this is a major portion of 0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:01.160 how the NFL's anti trust is I'm just supposed to work, 0:41:01.239 --> 0:41:03.239 is that these teams are normally competing against each other, 0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:06.719 so there is supposed to be a labor market with competition. 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:10.360 But this document that the union covered up from an 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:15.080 arbitration process they were in is about it has very 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:19.560 good evidence of the league actively colluding in order to 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:24.319 pay players less, and the union covered it up. So 0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:29.040 here we go back to our interview. Let's talk about 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:32.040 this collusion thing, because I've been losing my fucking mind 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:37.640 about this for a really long time, and I cannot 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:43.080 imagine just literally having evidence in your hand that the 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:47.480 owners are colluding against your members, like these are literally 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:50.120 you like this is supposed to be you and you're 0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:54.040 just sing hiding the report h even. 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.080 Like okay, so even if you lose the arbitration. Yeah, 0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:01.759 the fact that a judge wrote, yeah, legal document that 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:04.840 it was like beyond the benstit of a doubt that 0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:08.440 Roger Goodell and the thirty two owners were colluding. We've 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:13.280 seen text messages between the Cardinals owner and the Chargers 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:16.240 owner talking about how much to pay Justin Herbert. 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:20.480 Yeah. Lamar Jackson, Yeah, okay, can we can we explain 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:23.320 to Lamar Jackson situation and like explain it who Lamar 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.480 Jackson is for people who don't watch football, so they 0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:27.920 can understand how unhinged this is. 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.160 Lamar Jackson is a wizard, is the best way that 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:35.160 I could put it. Lamar Jackson. He is the franchise 0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:38.120 quarterback for the Baltimore Rayments, And I just think that 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:41.120 anyone with the brain could have seen what was going on. Yeah, right, 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:45.440 like with this situation, so so and even before Deshaun, 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:47.040 even before Lamar Jackson. You have to take it back 0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:49.360 to Deshaun Watson trade out of Houston. 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:52.800 Oh god, the one trade we've ever covered on this show, 0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:57.000 because holy shit, dude, Oh but this, this is. 0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:00.759 What got the Dominoes rolling on this stuff. Where As 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.600 terrible as Deshaun Watson is as a football player now 0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:07.640 and obviously as a human being, yeah, like right when 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:10.280 he was in Houston, it feels like a different world, 0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:14.680 but he was the man, Like he was incredible, like 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:17.319 to the point where the Texans I think his last 0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:20.799 year starting there, they went four and twelve and it 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.040 was like so obviously not his fault, like in terms 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:25.040 of efficiency, like he was right behind Patrick Mahomes to 0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:27.120 the top of the league. Like he got an apology 0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:29.720 from JJ Watt that year saying, like, dude, we wasted 0:43:30.080 --> 0:43:33.000 an absolutely incredible year from you. And then you know 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:37.719 the thirty accusations of at best sexual mixed conduct, at 0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:40.560 worst sexual assault, and in some of those cases. 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.279 Yeah, it's really hideous shit. 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:45.640 Right, So then it gets to a point where he 0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:48.200 the texts they don't want them there, He doesn't want 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:51.560 to be there anymore. But you have what looks to 0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:56.560 be a franchise quarterback in his mid twenties available for 0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:59.319 any team to have, you know, with the trade. So 0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:02.600 my team, Sally d Lash Falcons, they thought that they 0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:05.239 had a deal done for Deshaun Watson, and then the 0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:09.439 Cleveland Browns came in. And this is where the where 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.640 the ownership you know feedback kind of gets broken, where 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:16.239 Jimmy has Them breaks the rings and says, I want 0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:18.600 this guy on my team so bad. You know, this 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:21.160 is why like nobody ever hits free agency in the NFL, 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:23.359 because this is what it would look like in terms 0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:25.279 of like when owners actually have to bid against each 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:27.719 other for elite talent. Yeah, Jimmy has Them comes in 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.560 and says, here's five years, two hundred and thirty million dollars. 0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:33.840 Every single penny will be guaranteed, no stipulations and nothing. 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:35.960 Like that, which is like not how this works normally, Like, 0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.600 no one gets guarantee contracts, right, And because. 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:42.320 The previously the actual first player to get a fully 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:46.120 guaranteed the contract from another team was actually Kirk Cousins 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:49.120 with the Vikings when he left Washington. They gave him 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:50.879 like a three year I think it was three years 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:54.200 eighty eight million dollars fully guaranteed. But still that ain't 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:56.439 five years two hundred and thirty yeah, you know. Yeah, 0:44:56.960 --> 0:44:59.399 And what the owners were mad about was not that 0:44:59.480 --> 0:45:03.440 you would seek out someone with the personal background Deshaun 0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.600 Watson to represent your franchise. It's that you would pay 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:11.480 any NFL player two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed. 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.320 Because now that sense precedent. 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:18.239 Because if you're Lamar Jackson, whose contract was coming to 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:21.040 an end at the season after Deshaun Watson signed this deal, 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:25.280 I didn't touch those women. Yeah, I'm an MVP quarterback 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:27.600 and I'm in my twenties. Why shouldn't I get a 0:45:27.600 --> 0:45:31.480 fully guaranteed contract? Yep, right, which is what he was doing. 0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:36.160 And the Ravens they said, okay, fine, go out into 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:39.320 the market. And I felt like I was going insane 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.879 during this because, oh my god, there were so many 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:45.760 arguments from talking heads about why teams shouldn't sign Lamar Jackson. 0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:48.440 So he was hit with what's called a non exclusive 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:52.160 franchise tag, which means the Ravens. I don't even know 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:56.759 how how the idea of the franchise tag existing is 0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:59.040 another week like labor. 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.400 L hittyous anti labor practice. 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.319 Right, So his contract with the Ravens is over. And 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.439 they can hit him with an exclusive franchise tag, which 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.719 means you will be playing for US next year. You 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:11.960 basically have no say in it unless we remove this 0:46:12.480 --> 0:46:15.080 or you know, we work out a trade with somebody else, 0:46:15.120 --> 0:46:18.160 but you cannot go negotiate with anyone else even though your. 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:19.240 Contract has expired. 0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:22.840 And yeah, to be quote unquote fair, like, the payment 0:46:23.080 --> 0:46:27.280 is a average of the top five you know, yearly 0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:30.319 salaries of the position you play, so you will get 0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:32.640 paid like, you know, a top five player for one 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:36.560 year at your position. It really only goes to mostly 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:39.520 valuable players that they're trying to extend. But they hit 0:46:39.560 --> 0:46:43.520 him with a non exclusive franchise tag, which means they 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:47.359 have right a first refusal on if another team offers 0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:50.120 Lamar Jackson a contract, and that team would owe the 0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:53.640 Ravens two first round picks in order to sign Lamar Jackson. 0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:57.640 So Deshaun Watson is one for three. Yeah, and this 0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:01.920 rule is legally mandate. That is two first round picks. 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:03.680 And I'm sure you know the Raves have probably asked 0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:05.759 for a little stuff beyond that, but I only have 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:07.839 to give you two first round picks and I can 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:12.520 just sign Lamar Jackson it's like a generational quarterback, like right, right, right, 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.520 at this point, we're talking about a quarterback who is 0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:19.120 like twenty five years old. He's the first unanimous MVP, 0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:21.520 which he wonted his first season as a starter. Yeah, 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.279 since Tom Brady. He's one of two players in like 0:47:24.600 --> 0:47:25.759 or you know, I don't know if it's two, but 0:47:25.800 --> 0:47:27.840 it's less than five players in the history of the 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:32.600 league that have been unanimous MVPs. Every single person voted 0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:35.920 for Lamar Jackson be an MVP, and the Ravens said 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:39.439 go ahead and negotiate with another team, and no one, 0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:42.799 no one even brought him in to talk to him, right, Like, 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:44.720 it's unbelievable. 0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:46.880 I grew up in Chicago, so like I grew up 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:49.040 with the Bears, and my family are like a like 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:52.080 a family is like Seahawks fans. Right, Neither of those 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:55.440 two teams have ever had a quarterback who's in the 0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:59.839 same stratosphere as this guy. Like this is right. These 0:47:59.840 --> 0:48:02.960 guys never like ever ever. 0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:07.040 Ever hit free agency, never ever, and people like they'll 0:48:07.080 --> 0:48:10.839 bend the rules to things that aren't written were let's say, oh, 0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:11.600 you know, the. 0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:14.560 Ravens will just match, make them match. Then you have them. 0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:16.359 That's a competitive advantage for you. 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:20.080 Right right. I hate that my favorite team he's popped 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:23.319 up in this Atlanta. But but Arthur Blank, he put 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:25.480 his name on it, saying, you know, the Falcons, like 0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:28.040 they were trying to out, you know, backup quarterback quality guys, 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:29.640 because after Matt Ryan left. 0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:32.880 Has been rider like Jesus Christ. 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:34.000 Marcus Mariota, dude. 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:36.600 And and I'm sitting there like you're telling me that 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:39.480 I can sign Lamar Jackson and I got to give 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:41.960 up two first round picks for him, Like, dude, pay 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:44.120 him sixty million guaranteed every year. 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:45.720 He's worth that much. 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:49.160 Yeah, And Arthur Blank says, well, you know, Lamar Jackson, 0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:51.759 he's gonna get hurt too much for us to sign him. 0:48:52.000 --> 0:48:54.640 So so nope, no team signs him. No team even 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:55.160 talks to him. 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:57.680 So obviously he goes back to the Ravens, doesn't get 0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.360 the full guaranteed contract that the Shaun Watson got and 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:02.520 that kind of put an end to it for a 0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:06.000 little bit until the power of journalism popped up. Poullotory 0:49:06.280 --> 0:49:10.400 does his investigation here's about arbitration, hearing about collusion in 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:14.200 the NFL, and he gets his hands, like on the 0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:18.000 documents that say that while Lamar Jackson was going through 0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:22.239 his free agency basically rejection by thirty one teams, when 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:23.560 he would have been upgrade for like. 0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:25.319 Twenty eight of them, twenty nine of them. 0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:29.600 Yeah, at the time, I would throw a number one 0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.359 overall rookie quarterback that I just drafted with the first 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:35.680 ro overall pick out the fucking window thrown away to 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:36.560 get Lamar Jackson. 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:38.040 Right, you can be a part of this. Two first 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:40.560 round picks were giving you two first round picks plus. Yeah, 0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:42.200 you know if like at that time, like it may 0:49:42.239 --> 0:49:43.640 have been like Kyler Murray or something like that. 0:49:43.719 --> 0:49:45.280 Yeah, take them like it's taken. 0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:49.279 It's unbelievable, Like I cannot he he literally like the 0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:52.359 game of football is a fundamentally a different game now. 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:56.080 It was when when Lamar Jackson like started playing because 0:49:56.080 --> 0:49:58.200 of him, and it's just like he didn't take. 0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:01.440 Him his influence on the NFL so strong that we 0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:04.479 don't really do the black quarterback talking points anymore. Yeah, 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.080 because the league was like, oh, we can't let that 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:10.239 happen again. Like when Lamar Jackson fell to thirty two 0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:11.960 and everyone's talk about does he needs to play a 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:14.120 different position, and in year two he wins an MVP. 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:15.360 Yeah, and the. 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:17.719 Year after he signs his deal with the Ravens, he 0:50:17.760 --> 0:50:20.680 wins his second MVP. Like that kind of cooled the fans. 0:50:20.719 --> 0:50:22.200 Like when you get to see guys like Kim Warre 0:50:22.280 --> 0:50:24.440 going first overall or even Kyler Murray going first of 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:26.200 all and there's no talk about like how smart they 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:30.040 are as players. Yeah, Like that's his influence directly, his 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:34.280 success contribute to that, Like he is a Hall of Fame. 0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:36.680 It kind of gives me chills, like think about like 0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:40.160 what he's accomplished concerning like what has this fact against him? Yeah, 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:44.799 Like he is such an important figure for this era 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:46.799 of football and really just the whole league, like on 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:49.239 the field and off the field, like what he means 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:52.400 like culturally in society, for like for the chances that 0:50:52.440 --> 0:50:54.680 black man can get to play a position that deemed 0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:56.400 like they were deemed not the place part enough because 0:50:56.760 --> 0:50:58.839 he was so good that they said, we can't look 0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:02.320 that stupid again. This player was available. This player was 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:05.239 available in his athletic times. Every team could have drafted him. 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:08.439 Every single team in the league could have drafted him, 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:10.839 and they fucking didn't the Ravens passed on him. 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:12.680 It's like he was not even the first Ravens draft 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:13.239 pick that year. 0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:15.840 No, they drafted hidden Hurst twenty five overall before they 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:20.000 drafted Lamar Jackson. Every single team passed on him, and 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.960 he's one. He's one of eleven players in the HISTORIL 0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:26.480 and NFL to win two MVPs. Every other player that 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:29.000 has won two or more MVPs is either a Hall 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:32.080 of Famer or actively playing Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes. 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:34.960 That's it, Like this guy is a Hall of Famer already. 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:36.240 And he should have won a third by the way, 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:38.919 like right, he should have won the third, but either 0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:42.000 way near identical, like like statistical tie for like a 0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:42.720 third one. 0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:46.319 So yeah, he's first. He's the three time first team 0:51:46.360 --> 0:51:47.600 up pro. He's going to be a Hall of Famer. 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:50.520 And the fact that nobody nobody called him in to 0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:53.400 say what what would it take? What contract are you 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:56.120 looking for? That that's why I was like something, something, 0:51:56.360 --> 0:51:59.760 something is so obviously not right here. The Colts traded 0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:04.359 to first rowd picks for a quarterback, Like yes, right, 0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:06.440 precisely precisely, and. 0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:09.000 Like they're starting a guy who broke his leg and 0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:12.040 then also news Achilles like letters like. 0:52:12.880 --> 0:52:14.879 I just do like Jalen Ramsey went for two first 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:17.640 round picks and he's a great play, but he's a cornerback. 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:19.239 You know, it's not even the same thing. 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:21.759 So this is the most important position in sports. 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:24.239 Right A first ballot Hall of Famer was on the 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:27.920 market in his prime and nobody talked him about a 0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:30.160 contract except the team that owned that, you know, owned 0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:33.160 like the rights of first refusal. And it was so 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:36.560 frustrating to see, like my colleagues in the media say, oh, 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:39.160 you know, the Rams were just gonna match. That's so disingenuous. 0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:43.120 That's so disingenuous because you're you're stripping Lamar like of 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:45.440 his agency as a player one like he's better than 0:52:45.480 --> 0:52:48.120 every other quarterback that just about any team has. It 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:50.520 will be such a severe upgrade. And you're also just 0:52:50.520 --> 0:52:52.480 like holding the line for what you're not getting cut 0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:54.000 of that money? Why are you lying for these people 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.960 like that? But but Pablo took back, like in his 0:52:57.080 --> 0:53:02.120 reporting he found out that a job agreed with the 0:53:02.280 --> 0:53:06.080 union that the players were being colluded against, like actively, 0:53:06.200 --> 0:53:08.360 like there's there's text messages and J C. 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:11.960 Trader and Lloyd Howe they hit this from the unit. 0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:12.279 Bro. 0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:14.799 If if you're a union and you have even if 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:15.240 you lose. 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:19.040 Arbitration, you have physical note from a judge that says 0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:21.839 you were ccluded against, take your megaphone to the top 0:53:21.880 --> 0:53:25.120 of the talls mount in the world and talk about this. 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:28.000 Apply some pressure now, Like this is where I started 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:30.840 to get curious, like why why did this happen? Because 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:33.479 that part we still don't have enough information all like 0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:35.600 like I need to like how much like if there's 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:38.160 a kickback going back to like JA C. Trader, how 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:40.480 much is it? And we do know that Lloyd how 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:42.520 part of the reason also parbat of reason why he 0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:45.920 was fired or had to resign with because he along 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:52.040 with he along with a former former MLBPA union leader, 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:56.240 Tony White, who was recently fired for banging his brother's 0:53:56.239 --> 0:53:59.000 wife who he hired to work at the mL LBU. 0:53:59.160 --> 0:53:59.919 Oh my fucking god. 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:03.799 Yeah, the NFLPA is so lucky that the MLBPA had 0:54:03.840 --> 0:54:06.359 a shadow that's almost as embarrassing to the strung club 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:07.040 that maybe. 0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:11.800 But Lloyd Howell and Tony White, they were working together 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:15.360 as part of an eight man group of like union 0:54:16.120 --> 0:54:18.440 parasites like at the top of the corporate ladder in 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:23.000 America to siphon money away from the union into their 0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:25.040 own personal pockets. 0:54:25.080 --> 0:54:26.680 Like this is what's running it. 0:54:37.719 --> 0:54:41.160 We know for a fact Lloyd an Tony White, who's 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:43.720 the you know baseball union had what it was because 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:45.760 he no longer has his job or family. 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:50.040 Yeah, that did for him, but fucking you, you you 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:52.720 brought this upon yourself, right. 0:54:52.840 --> 0:54:55.720 He can't go home for Christy like that, Like he's done. 0:54:56.320 --> 0:54:58.920 They were part of a small group that was sifeing 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:01.880 money away from you union funds to line their own pockets. 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:04.759 Like that is verified. They've been sued for that. So 0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:06.439 what else is going on here? 0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:07.040 Yeah? 0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:11.400 What is the incentivization for J. C. Tredder to push 0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:15.880 someone like that through? And then the backside is jc's 0:55:16.320 --> 0:55:20.360 reign as the union president expires while Lloyd How's the 0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:24.440 executive director and Lloyd makes a new cushy role for 0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:27.239 JC as like you know, I don't remember what the 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:28.279 role was called, but like. 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:31.000 It's like if a strategy or something. 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:33.360 Yes, chief strategy officer, so something that paid him like 0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:37.440 three million dollars a year, very handsomely, punctually Lloyd was off, 0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:39.200 you know, blowing money at the Strip club, and JC 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:42.200 was kind of running like the actual data day things 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.040 because he's the one that has a connection. 0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:47.120 To the players, right. And now we've gone through a 0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:47.960 point where. 0:55:48.160 --> 0:55:52.960 After Gene Upshaw dies, the two executive directors who followed him, 0:55:53.080 --> 0:55:55.799 as you know, the head of union, Jamar Smith and 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:59.279 Lloyd Howe. Neither of those guys were NFL players, So 0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:03.120 you can understand how players might feel we've gotten a 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:05.120 little bit too far from our roots, like we don't 0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:09.640 have guys who are from our background interested in you know, 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:12.080 players and what we go through. 0:56:12.520 --> 0:56:14.120 Which leads back to J. C. 0:56:14.280 --> 0:56:17.920 Tredder, who played for the Packers, played for the Browns, 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:19.480 was at his peak. 0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:20.440 Man, he was a good player. 0:56:20.480 --> 0:56:21.880 Like I'm not going to take that away from Like 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:24.400 he was a good starting center on a lot of 0:56:24.440 --> 0:56:27.399 good offensive lines in Cleveland that didn't win any games, no, 0:56:27.480 --> 0:56:31.000 but they they blocked the hell out of people, man Like, 0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:32.600 Like like when you go back you look at some 0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:35.040 of those lines, like they had Joe Thomas and Alex 0:56:35.080 --> 0:56:38.640 Snack and Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Platonio, like they have some 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:40.719 stars that are out there winning four or five games 0:56:40.760 --> 0:56:44.280 a year. So Lloyd Halliver resigns in a mess. JC 0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:46.960 is still the chief Strategy offers of the NFLPA. 0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:49.360 I think he resigns eventually from there. 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:53.839 Yes, yes, yes, after whatd HALLI resigns. J C resigns too. 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:56.959 So now we're up to last summer summer twenty twenty five. Yeah, 0:56:57.400 --> 0:57:00.640 eight months ago, right, it's March twenty seven. Eight months ago. 0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:04.320 J C tried to resigns from the chief strategy officer 0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:07.680 role that was cut out before him and says he 0:57:07.960 --> 0:57:11.960 said in an interview to my friend Jonathan Jones, I 0:57:12.040 --> 0:57:17.120 have no interest in any leadership roles in the moving forward. 0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:19.760 He said. I have given this my all. I've given 0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:21.800 this everything I had. I'm gonna go home and be 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.840 a family man. I have no interest in this at all. 0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:30.400 And it seemed like it until this month when j C. 0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:33.760 Pouse back up as one of the finalists for the 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:37.439 new executive director role that's was previously left by Lloyd Howe. 0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:39.000 Now this is where it's murky. 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:41.640 I don't know like all the processes that go on 0:57:42.320 --> 0:57:44.840 with like how they decide like who's gonna, you know, 0:57:45.080 --> 0:57:47.160 do what, like they apparently they have three hundred candidates. 0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:49.320 It will have down the three. I don't ask some 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:51.160 players what was going on in the past couple of weeks. 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.400 They don't know, like how like all this was selected. 0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.840 But they are presented with three finalists for the executive 0:57:57.840 --> 0:58:01.120 director role to vote on Rider, who has popped up 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:05.040 out of nowhere. Then the commissioner of the American Athletic 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:10.280 Conference so like Temple and you know those East Coast schools, 0:58:10.280 --> 0:58:13.840 like like James Madison or whatever, like he's overseeing that. 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:15.800 It's like a college football commissioner. 0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:19.240 Well yeah, like like yeah, college football, college football commission 0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:21.680 Like he's talking to like the president of Rice University 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.080 about like scheduling games against Toledo or some shit. 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:25.960 Christ. 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:29.160 But see you have Jay C. Tradder the American Conference commissioner, 0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:33.000 not even like the ACC, the A A C. Right 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:36.520 think ass conference. It used to be the Big East, 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.600 Like they're stolen Big East valor this this guy was 0:58:39.680 --> 0:58:40.520 running against JAYC. 0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:40.960 Trader. 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:44.840 And also the third was a former Hollywood Union exect 0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:47.920 who didn't really seem to be that interested in the 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:50.080 role in the first place. So we get down to 0:58:50.120 --> 0:58:53.480 the election day and we find out the American Conference 0:58:53.520 --> 0:58:56.120 commissioner drops out on. 0:58:57.600 --> 0:59:02.440 Election day. He dropped right. Okay, So now so now. 0:59:02.680 --> 0:59:05.960 We're dealing with We've had two executive directors back to back, 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:08.919 Morse Smith, Lords Howe not football players didn't go well. 0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:12.960 Ja C. Tratder was a part of that, but he 0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:15.800 played football, right, So you see the Jac Tradder or 0:59:15.840 --> 0:59:17.600 this Hollywood guy who doesn't give a crap. I forget 0:59:17.640 --> 0:59:20.080 his name, but his background wasn't like always the cleanest 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:22.480 in terms of, you know, actually getting things done, in 0:59:22.520 --> 0:59:24.800 terms of you know, being pro labor all the time, 0:59:25.280 --> 0:59:28.040 ultimately as fucked up as it is. That's an easy 0:59:28.120 --> 0:59:30.200 choice if you're a player. These are my two options. 0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:33.200 I'm gonna take the guy who at least has played football. 0:59:33.280 --> 0:59:34.960 So you had Ja C. 0:59:35.080 --> 0:59:37.680 Tradder, who is now back as the executive director eight 0:59:37.680 --> 0:59:40.280 months after he said he had no interest in being 0:59:40.480 --> 0:59:41.800 any type of union leadership. 0:59:42.360 --> 0:59:45.400 And like somehow this whole process has like stage manage. 0:59:45.440 --> 0:59:47.160 He's like back again. 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:49.760 Right, But to me, this lynchpin right here is actually 0:59:49.760 --> 0:59:52.200 the most fascinating part of what's happened. And this is 0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:54.600 where like, if you listen to this podcast probably won't 0:59:54.600 --> 0:59:56.640 sound like the conspiracy If you're not thinking about labor 0:59:56.640 --> 1:00:00.000 relations in America. It might sound like conspiracy to you, 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:03.720 but j C. Tretder when he was the president, like 1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:05.600 his right hand man, I think it was like the 1:00:05.680 --> 1:00:10.520 vice president was Jalen Reeves Mayban or was very important. 1:00:10.760 --> 1:00:12.880 He was especially seen was the linebacker for the lines 1:00:12.880 --> 1:00:15.680 for a long time. He became the union president after 1:00:16.040 --> 1:00:18.160 j C. Tretder left and you know, became like the 1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:21.400 chief strategy officer. So he basically followed in j C. 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:25.760 Treader's footsteps as the union president. So you know, while 1:00:25.760 --> 1:00:28.520 all this shapey stuff's going on, Reeves Mayban is an 1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:31.800 underrated part as you know, the new union president because 1:00:32.040 --> 1:00:33.400 Lloyd was executive director. 1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:37.280 J C had this new role as the chief strategy officer. 1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:40.640 But Jalen Reeves Mayban is sitting there as the president 1:00:40.840 --> 1:00:45.040 of the union, so obviously he is involved in this somehow, right, 1:00:45.200 --> 1:00:47.800 Like he is involved with like the cover up for 1:00:47.840 --> 1:00:51.280 the players not being as aggressive as you should be 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:54.560 towards ownership in terms of gave up a seventeenth game, 1:00:54.640 --> 1:00:58.160 dog like that's insane and you got nothing back for it. Yeah, 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:02.600 So there's a clock though, in terms of how long 1:01:02.720 --> 1:01:05.160 you can like be removed from being a player and 1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:10.280 still be the NFLPA president. And last year Jalen labeling 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:11.720 he had been out of the league, so his clock 1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:12.680 was almost up. 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:15.400 I think it's within yes, two years. Two years. 1:01:15.920 --> 1:01:18.240 So if you flaw the league, you're not signing a contract, 1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:19.960 like no one's pursuing you, like you kind of just 1:01:20.000 --> 1:01:22.600 get filed as retired, even if you're not, even if 1:01:22.600 --> 1:01:23.920 you have to come out and say like I'm retired, 1:01:23.920 --> 1:01:26.280 Like there's a bunch of players that never said I'm retired, 1:01:26.320 --> 1:01:28.960 but nobody's signed them, like t Y Hilton. T Y 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:31.600 Hilton just functually retired, like yeah, two weeks ago. He 1:01:31.600 --> 1:01:34.560 hasn't played like five years, okay, but he has been 1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:37.360 placed in a retired file in the NFL. As far 1:01:37.400 --> 1:01:41.120 as just like labeling things go, and if you are retired, 1:01:41.400 --> 1:01:43.800 if you were labels retired, you can't be the NFLPA president. 1:01:43.880 --> 1:01:45.200 Makes good, perfect sense. 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:49.360 So okay, this does not sound crazy, probably the people 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:53.000 who listen to this podcast. Right, If you are one 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:56.280 of thirty two owners, right, and you have this power 1:01:56.280 --> 1:02:00.640 structure of an organization that you negotiate against the NFLPA, 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:03.600 this power structure is very friendly towards you. You know, 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:07.160 they've given you a lot over the past fifteen years 1:02:07.400 --> 1:02:09.760 since he ripped up the two thousand and six Cbah. 1:02:10.000 --> 1:02:13.520 How much would you pay to keep that in place? 1:02:14.240 --> 1:02:14.439 Right? 1:02:14.680 --> 1:02:14.919 Yep? 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:16.720 How much would you pay to keep it in place? 1:02:16.760 --> 1:02:19.160 And I haven't seen many people talking about this part 1:02:19.160 --> 1:02:24.400 of it, But the Chicago Bears signed Jalen Reeves Maybin 1:02:24.840 --> 1:02:25.320 this fall. 1:02:25.400 --> 1:02:29.080 Oh my god, right to a betterment deal. I looked 1:02:29.120 --> 1:02:29.320 it up. 1:02:29.360 --> 1:02:32.120 I think he played like forty special team snaps for 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:38.200 them this season. But that resets his clock. That resets 1:02:38.240 --> 1:02:43.160 his clock to be president of the Union. So now 1:02:43.840 --> 1:02:46.080 we get to the end of the season. Yep, Jailerry 1:02:46.200 --> 1:02:50.440 Vaven runs again to be president. I'm not sure anybody 1:02:50.480 --> 1:02:53.640 ran against him. No one's told us who the other 1:02:53.680 --> 1:02:57.200 Cannions were, yep, if there were other candidates, And now 1:02:57.240 --> 1:03:01.240 he's the president of the Union again after he was 1:03:01.360 --> 1:03:04.720 almost barred from it. Does any Bears remember like any 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:07.360 play the Jaylen Breeze may made? 1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:10.760 No right? Like I would. I watched every game of 1:03:10.760 --> 1:03:13.120 that team, y'all. I guess they're like two that I 1:03:13.160 --> 1:03:14.400 missed for those on planes. 1:03:14.400 --> 1:03:17.720 But like no, but okay, but but somethink about it 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:22.440 from disrespect. If you are an owner and you have 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:28.760 this power structure that is generating billions capital b billions 1:03:28.800 --> 1:03:31.920 of dollars back in your direction away from the people 1:03:31.960 --> 1:03:35.040 that they represent, would it be worth five hundred thousand 1:03:35.120 --> 1:03:37.640 dollars keep that dolling and a little roster spot at 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:41.680 the bottom. Absolutely. Now that's the part that I haven't 1:03:41.680 --> 1:03:43.520 seen people you know bring up as much because it 1:03:43.520 --> 1:03:46.600 get stuck on Trader. But Treader's right hand man was 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:50.760 almost ineligible to be the president of the NFLPA. Yeah, 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:52.760 and he pops up in this little role when it 1:03:52.760 --> 1:03:54.960 looks like his career is over, like they signed him 1:03:55.040 --> 1:03:58.200 late in the season to play special teams. You should 1:03:58.200 --> 1:03:59.960 bumple some of them in practice squad to go do that, 1:04:00.640 --> 1:04:03.520 because because you want guys that you've already you know, 1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:06.600 developed a relationship, guys you've started you started training working with. 1:04:06.560 --> 1:04:07.480 To get those reps. 1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:10.440 Some outside guy like coming into play special teams that 1:04:10.840 --> 1:04:12.640 you know that's it's. 1:04:12.560 --> 1:04:14.680 Unnecessary, it's unnecessary. 1:04:14.800 --> 1:04:17.479 It's been out of the lead too, Like, yeah, there's 1:04:17.520 --> 1:04:22.000 no reason to do it unless you, as a power structure, 1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:26.360 are interested in him having eligibility to keep funneling you money, yep, 1:04:26.520 --> 1:04:27.880 at expense of the players. 1:04:28.240 --> 1:04:31.560 Yeah, and I've really changed my tune like on players 1:04:31.600 --> 1:04:34.480 not carrying over the past month, just from talking to guys, 1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:36.560 like because I used to cover the Jets and the 1:04:36.560 --> 1:04:38.400 Giants like for a newspaper here in New York City, Like 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:40.040 this is what I've done for the past ten years. 1:04:40.080 --> 1:04:41.080 I've met a lot of guys. 1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:47.760 They are like curious because You're like, what is this mechanism? Yeah, 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.720 that is allowing you guys to operate with so much 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:55.360 secrecy where you have J. C. Tredder, I mean shout 1:04:55.360 --> 1:04:57.160 out to like the people who ran against him or 1:04:57.280 --> 1:05:01.240 were there for a minute, but functionally, like practically he 1:05:01.360 --> 1:05:04.920 ran unopposed for the executive director role, and so you 1:05:05.040 --> 1:05:08.800 whittled it out from three hundred candidates to three and 1:05:08.840 --> 1:05:10.760 one of them is J. C. Tratder and the other 1:05:11.160 --> 1:05:15.840 is the commissioner of like the sixth mostly important college 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:19.160 football conference in the country. And then a Hollywood movie 1:05:19.200 --> 1:05:23.640 like union exec guy. I mean, that's that's functionally unopposed. 1:05:23.800 --> 1:05:26.200 And then with Jalen reason Laban, we don't even know 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:28.880 if anyone ran against him. So these guys are just 1:05:29.160 --> 1:05:33.240 walking back into power yep, and the question that I 1:05:33.280 --> 1:05:37.200 and players and other drills have what is that mechanism 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:40.840 that is operating in the shadows that is allowing us 1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:43.640 to happen and how much is it worth? 1:05:43.920 --> 1:05:45.480 Because now we're coming up. 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:49.920 On a new CBA negotiation, they're probably going to get 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:53.360 an eighteen inch game in eighteenth. Like you you have 1:05:53.440 --> 1:05:56.680 gone from in twenty years. You've gone from a spot 1:05:56.680 --> 1:05:59.280 where you had revenue majority, even if it wasn't the 1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:03.240 sixty percent fifty two fifty three, that's better than forty seven. 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:08.360 And like the literal death of Gene Upshaw, Yeah, it 1:06:08.600 --> 1:06:12.160 like killed this union in a way that I don't 1:06:12.200 --> 1:06:15.040 know if it's recoverable from because you've said precedent over 1:06:15.840 --> 1:06:18.960 two cbas likely to be three, that you will give 1:06:19.040 --> 1:06:22.280 up anything for what though, yeah, for nothing, but for 1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:25.160 what like like Roger Goodell should never be coming out 1:06:25.200 --> 1:06:28.280 and saying I'm glad that j. C. Tretder was named 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:30.680 the executive, Like j C. Tredder should be a pain 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:35.520 in his past. No, And it just it's sad to 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:37.240 me like as someone like who like I love the 1:06:37.280 --> 1:06:40.880 sport so much and to see like what's happening to 1:06:41.680 --> 1:06:46.360 the Union. It's horrible because ultimately, like we're so short 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:49.040 sighted that you know what what's happening from me, like 1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:51.880 right right now or today, it's the only thing that matters. 1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:55.040 But like there's gonna be real consequences for these guys 1:06:55.240 --> 1:06:57.280 for decades and man, like I remember my first year 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.360 covering the Jets and the Giants for the Alien News 1:07:00.440 --> 1:07:03.560 up here in New York was twenty nineteen, and the 1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:06.200 Jets had a Legends day like where a bunch of 1:07:06.200 --> 1:07:08.040 guys that came back and they were on during halftime. 1:07:08.120 --> 1:07:10.080 It's for crappy teams do when you have nothing to 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:12.080 talk about then, like you talk about talk about the 1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:14.240 good old this, right, but you know these guys that 1:07:14.360 --> 1:07:16.520 come up and they were hanging out with us in 1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:18.240 the press box before they went down on the field 1:07:18.240 --> 1:07:20.720 of the halftime. These are like fifty year old men 1:07:20.760 --> 1:07:23.120 like on canes and stuff like that, Like like my 1:07:23.240 --> 1:07:26.000 dad's sixty and he still shoots hoops sometimes like at 1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:27.920 the gym, and these are like forty five fifty year 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:30.160 old men that they can't walk with that assistance that 1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:32.480 are like like they walk around like and they're forgetting like, oh, 1:07:32.520 --> 1:07:34.040 what I just turned this corner to do like all 1:07:34.080 --> 1:07:35.600 the time, like you're talking to them and you have 1:07:35.640 --> 1:07:38.720 to keep reminding like refresh, like refreshing them on what 1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:40.880 we were talking about, as if it's like chat GBT, 1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:43.720 you know, like and it's sad. But when you see 1:07:43.760 --> 1:07:46.480 like like the material restrictions that these guys have in 1:07:46.520 --> 1:07:49.000 their own lives post playing, and these guys like they're 1:07:49.000 --> 1:07:52.840 not all rich, like they're just normal people, it's it's 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:57.920 sad that this union has capitulated to the owners for 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:01.840 such a violent job. And sure, like you can say, 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:03.280 like you know, no one's telling you to be a 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:05.640 football player, but that's the only option a lot of 1:08:05.640 --> 1:08:08.760 these guys have, like to go be football players and 1:08:08.800 --> 1:08:11.360 to go put their body on the line just so 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:12.360 their family can live in. 1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:15.560 Comfort for a few years. Oh it's sad. 1:08:15.800 --> 1:08:18.479 Yeah, it's like it's the actual poverty draft. It hits 1:08:18.640 --> 1:08:21.599 way way way more people than the military does, like 1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:24.759 significantly more. And I think it's something that's really really 1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:27.519 really badly understood on the left because it's like people 1:08:27.520 --> 1:08:29.240 on the left head not to care about sports stuff, 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:32.040 but it's like football is a structural part, but the 1:08:32.240 --> 1:08:34.720 entire American economy. It's a structural part of our the 1:08:34.800 --> 1:08:38.320 entire American educational system, like half of the educational system 1:08:38.360 --> 1:08:41.160 is designed to funnel people into this sport specifically so 1:08:41.200 --> 1:08:43.280 these people could make fucking money off of it. Yes, 1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:45.919 and that stuff shapes everything. 1:08:46.240 --> 1:08:48.519 And I understand, like why left these like they don't 1:08:48.520 --> 1:08:50.960 care about spor us, Like I get it. But if 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:55.960 the NFL were to cease existing tomorrow, that would be 1:08:56.200 --> 1:08:59.120 like a major collapse within the US economy. Yeah, Like 1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:03.599 I'm not I'm joking. Basically everything you watch, especially now, 1:09:03.760 --> 1:09:08.080 is subsidized by some NFL game, right, Like yeah, that's 1:09:08.120 --> 1:09:10.840 that's why these companies exist. If you if you go 1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:13.400 back every single year and you look at the top 1:09:13.479 --> 1:09:17.880 one hundred most watched TV shows of the year, ninety 1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:20.360 seven of them will be NFL games, yep. And you'll 1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:21.840 have like the two coag football games and like the 1:09:21.880 --> 1:09:23.360 Macy's things giving pretty. 1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:25.439 Yeah, maybe like maybe the World Series, right, maybe the 1:09:25.439 --> 1:09:26.360 World Series. 1:09:26.120 --> 1:09:30.640 Like right, maybe the Oscars can like maybe the Oscars 1:09:30.720 --> 1:09:33.679 versus like Jets Bills like Week twelve, that's. 1:09:33.520 --> 1:09:37.360 Not flow like throw on a Thursday night like right, 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:38.080 But that's. 1:09:37.880 --> 1:09:39.080 How big this is. 1:09:39.360 --> 1:09:44.720 And I would implore people to not say, hey, who 1:09:44.800 --> 1:09:48.120 cares about this? It's important And also like there's there's 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.400 there's also just like clear like you look at a game, 1:09:50.439 --> 1:09:53.000 there's clear racial divides. Yeah, and who has to play 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.240 this game and who doesn't have to play this game? 1:09:55.360 --> 1:09:58.200 There are studies that show that like upwards of eighty 1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:01.240 percent of black boys who play sports want to be 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:02.360 professional athletes. 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:04.120 I mean, because that's that's it. 1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:08.640 Really like it's that or I'm gonna go do I 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:12.080 don't fucking know, and and those are really your options. 1:10:12.200 --> 1:10:14.000 And that's why I say, like I've used I've used 1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:16.439 the NFL to kind of figure out my way like 1:10:16.560 --> 1:10:19.559 through you know, how I feel about things, because there's 1:10:19.640 --> 1:10:23.440 such real like desperation for these people to get out. 1:10:23.520 --> 1:10:25.600 And the problem, like also with the union is like 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:28.240 let's say, like some of these guys come from nothing, 1:10:28.400 --> 1:10:29.840 Like the fact that they could figure out a way 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:30.960 to get to a bus that would take them to 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:32.000 school where they could play. 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:34.160 Football is like a major accomplishment in the rown. 1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:35.920 And the fact that you can go from that to 1:10:36.680 --> 1:10:39.960 making three hundred thousand dollars in a year at twenty one, 1:10:40.400 --> 1:10:43.599 that will distort you as well, because now you've made 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:47.280 such an extreme jump so fast, probably gonna be a 1:10:47.280 --> 1:10:50.040 little bit complacent. You might not be thinking about what's 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:52.800 next because, and I say this for like a twenty 1:10:52.840 --> 1:10:54.840 one year old person, you spent the last twenty years 1:10:54.880 --> 1:10:58.000 of your life fucking fighting, like just to get to 1:10:58.120 --> 1:11:00.240 the next day. I remember one of the crazy thing 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:03.080 back in the day, like when Laramie Tumpsill was at 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:04.880 Ole Miss, Like back when they got busted before the 1:11:05.000 --> 1:11:07.679 nil stuff going out, there's this text thread between Laramie 1:11:07.720 --> 1:11:11.080 Tumpson's OH line coach and his mom saying like, hey, 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:12.879 can you send money for the light. 1:11:12.720 --> 1:11:13.800 Bill this month? 1:11:14.080 --> 1:11:18.439 Yeah, he's a five star starter on your team that 1:11:18.600 --> 1:11:21.760 is generating millions of dollars, and you could get in 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:23.560 trouble for sending his mom like two hundred bucks to 1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:27.520 keep the lights one. You know, there's a real like systemic, 1:11:27.600 --> 1:11:31.960 like obvious extraction of value from these black men, and 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:36.639 once it's over, they say good luck, get fucked until 1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:39.080 you know, we had like the CTE lawsuit where they 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:41.720 had to payout billions of dollars, but ultimately you just 1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:43.639 kind of come in and get discarded, which is why 1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:46.120 this union is so important, And the fact that you 1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:49.720 can be JC Tretdery use the trust that you have 1:11:49.960 --> 1:11:52.559 earned through your own blood, sweat and tears of being 1:11:52.560 --> 1:11:55.160 an NFL player and good enough to stand on your 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:58.160 own as like almost a decade long NFL starter. The 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.439 fact that you would use that and turn around and 1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:03.479 like just capitulate the owners like that's scum. 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:06.559 Ideos it's scum, and it's it's. 1:12:06.400 --> 1:12:10.360 Sad and just everyone here deserves better except for the 1:12:10.400 --> 1:12:12.120 people at top. Yeah, and there needs to be some 1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:16.600 answers on why are you guys doing this? They're not 1:12:16.640 --> 1:12:19.160 doing for no reason. There has to be something there. 1:12:19.360 --> 1:12:20.320 That's the part that we don't know. 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:32.080 One thing I want to kind of go back to 1:12:32.080 --> 1:12:33.840 you for seconds, like how they're able to do this. 1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:39.240 I don't know the exact mechanisms of how they specifically 1:12:39.280 --> 1:12:41.439 have been able to do this, because every union is 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:45.919 structured like kind of differently. But there's something that's actually, 1:12:46.280 --> 1:12:50.040 unfortunately like pretty common in even sort of like progressive 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:53.519 unions where you know, like we've had people on this 1:12:53.600 --> 1:12:56.920 show a few times who were trying to dislodge this 1:12:57.040 --> 1:12:59.040 clique that used to run Actually I'm not sure if 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:01.760 they're still running it, but they used to run the 1:13:01.760 --> 1:13:05.280 big nurses union, like a huge portion of the country's nurses, 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:07.720 and so okay. One of the problems here is that, 1:13:07.800 --> 1:13:10.360 like you need elections, even if they're well publicized, even 1:13:10.360 --> 1:13:11.920 if you are trying to get everyone to vote, have 1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:16.040 really really low turnout. Members unless they're really engaged, do 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:18.120 not pay attention to it. Yeah, and that's not even 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:20.479 really engaged in the sense of engage in union activities, 1:13:20.479 --> 1:13:22.599 because even most of the people who like are really 1:13:22.640 --> 1:13:24.280 engaged in like I want to go on strike or 1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:25.600 like I want to I'm gonna show up to this 1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:28.559 like contract session are voting in the union elections because 1:13:28.640 --> 1:13:31.040 no one knows what's happening. No one knows who any 1:13:31.040 --> 1:13:33.120 of the candidates are. It's no one cares. It's like 1:13:33.160 --> 1:13:35.400 it's it's an even more extreme version of the problem 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:38.800 with like no one voting in regular elections, and so 1:13:39.360 --> 1:13:42.160 with a really small amount of votes, you can just 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:45.519 get you and your faction installed for generations. Right, Like 1:13:45.560 --> 1:13:49.280 there are admin caucuses in a whole bunch of unions, 1:13:49.640 --> 1:13:52.760 like and we're talking about like like the Teamsters and 1:13:52.840 --> 1:13:55.320 like the union's on that scale. We're like, yeah, there was. 1:13:55.400 --> 1:13:57.200 It was a huge deal when the teamsters like finally 1:13:57.280 --> 1:14:00.120 ran out their admin caucus. But like, these people are 1:14:00.120 --> 1:14:02.000 in power for half a century, super empowered for like 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:05.400 generations of these guys are able to stay in these unions, 1:14:05.400 --> 1:14:07.160 and they're able to do it because it's really really 1:14:07.200 --> 1:14:10.880 easy to control union elections, especially once you're empowered. And 1:14:10.960 --> 1:14:13.000 this is something I'm like I've talked about on this 1:14:13.080 --> 1:14:15.920 fucking show. Like I've seen union staffers whose job it 1:14:15.960 --> 1:14:19.080 is to do organizing get fired for telling their own 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.479 members to read a contract there but they were being 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:24.639 asked to vote on because that was considered a threat 1:14:24.680 --> 1:14:27.200 to the power base, right, And the problem is is 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:31.240 that once you're running the union, you con troll the 1:14:31.360 --> 1:14:33.600 jobs of all of the staff in these you and 1:14:33.640 --> 1:14:35.400 one of the things that actually came out in public 1:14:35.400 --> 1:14:37.519 tourist reporting is that they offered anyone who'd been at 1:14:37.520 --> 1:14:40.400 the union for more than seven years a buyout. And 1:14:40.439 --> 1:14:42.160 so you know, you can watch them do like they're 1:14:42.200 --> 1:14:44.479 doing a systemic purge of all of this stuff, and 1:14:44.520 --> 1:14:47.840 then like the moment, Shredder is like leading the search, right, 1:14:47.840 --> 1:14:51.400 he's able to use his position, like his very specific 1:14:51.400 --> 1:14:53.600 position in this bureaucracy, like as a president of the 1:14:53.640 --> 1:14:56.360 union to like go change the terms of the search 1:14:56.400 --> 1:14:58.439 so that it's no secret and you can just keep 1:14:58.600 --> 1:15:01.920 using whatever. Every position take over gives you a little 1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:04.320 bit more sort of bureaucratic power that you can use 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:07.280 to rap fuck people. And once they're in, it's like 1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:10.360 it is possible to dislodge them. Mm hmm, Like, I mean, 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:13.360 this is something that happened with the UAW in the 1:15:13.439 --> 1:15:17.559 last like that was twenty twenty twenty twenty three. They 1:15:17.560 --> 1:15:19.960 got in and they dis lodged an admin caucus that 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:22.400 had been in power and like doing similar shit to 1:15:22.439 --> 1:15:25.519 this for like decades and decades and decades. And so 1:15:25.640 --> 1:15:28.760 it is possible for you know, reform caucuses inside the 1:15:28.840 --> 1:15:31.960 Union to organize and drive the leadership out, but it's 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:34.920 really hard. And the moment you start doing that, like 1:15:35.040 --> 1:15:37.840 every single person who's any way affiliated with you will 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:39.759 get targeted for retaliation by the union. 1:15:40.120 --> 1:15:42.960 And yes, that that's what has happened. 1:15:43.040 --> 1:15:43.680 Yeah with J. C. 1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:45.559 Tradder yep again, Pabla Tori. 1:15:45.840 --> 1:15:49.040 He released an interview two weeks ago with you know, 1:15:49.200 --> 1:15:52.880 longtime security officer who was basically one of the people 1:15:52.880 --> 1:15:55.280 who was like Hey, Yeah, what's going on here with 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:56.920 DoD j C try to Alloyd house stuff? 1:15:56.960 --> 1:15:58.160 And they fired him for that. 1:15:58.520 --> 1:16:02.200 Like the union five the security guy who've been working 1:16:02.240 --> 1:16:03.880 like keep been working there since Like Dean I'm show 1:16:03.920 --> 1:16:05.760 I was working there. So he he's part of the 1:16:05.760 --> 1:16:09.519 old guard that is there for like the material like 1:16:09.600 --> 1:16:12.720 improvement of players' lives, like as far as they can 1:16:12.760 --> 1:16:15.840 take it without you know, dealing with the real bounds 1:16:15.880 --> 1:16:17.360 of like we got to kind of get this number 1:16:17.360 --> 1:16:19.400 for the season or our worker base is gonna be 1:16:19.400 --> 1:16:22.439 harm Like those guys don't really work there anymore. Yeah, 1:16:22.520 --> 1:16:25.000 someone like Dominicq fox Worth, he's like he's on TV now, 1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:27.720 you know, and I know he cares a lot about this, 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:30.759 but he's off doing different things. And I think another 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.960 thing that that's tough when you look back at like okay, 1:16:34.040 --> 1:16:38.080 who is playing football. These are ultimately young men who 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:41.800 like they enter this union without any knowledge of like 1:16:42.320 --> 1:16:45.160 how unions work, Like what are the finances behind any 1:16:45.200 --> 1:16:48.920 of this? You're geared to take like your high school 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:53.240 free time and your college free time, especially now that 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:56.679 these colleges are throwing out cash, like you are honed 1:16:56.760 --> 1:17:00.599 to care about football and get football done, and you know, 1:17:00.680 --> 1:17:02.599 once we get to college, like we'll see what it is. 1:17:02.920 --> 1:17:05.040 Hopefully you can get your degree and keep it moving. 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:07.280 But most of the time, like these guys, they don't 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:09.280 know what any of this stuff is. So you have 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:12.800 like this very uninformed, you know, labor force that's getting 1:17:12.800 --> 1:17:15.320 turned out two three years at a time. It would 1:17:15.320 --> 1:17:18.160 probably be pretty easy, honestly, to create a blockade of 1:17:18.760 --> 1:17:21.200 knowledge when the people who could be asking you about 1:17:21.240 --> 1:17:23.040 this are going to be irrelevant if you just hold 1:17:23.080 --> 1:17:25.639 the lines for a year, you know, it's sad. 1:17:26.080 --> 1:17:28.599 The other thing about this, right is that these guys 1:17:28.720 --> 1:17:32.320 don't have even the basic concentive that even like the 1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:35.120 UAW and their moost In Trench had, which is like, 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:37.880 if you fuck this up enough, there won't be a union. 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:40.400 It was like these guys, there's always going to be 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:44.519 something called the NFL Players Association, right because the NFL 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:46.720 needs it for cover, which means they don't even have 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:49.200 to do the minimal organizing worker like even the minimal 1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:52.439 like pretending to actually fight for the people who are 1:17:52.439 --> 1:17:55.200 supposed to be the union because it doesn't matter to them, 1:17:55.320 --> 1:17:56.960 Like why the fuck would they why the fuck would 1:17:56.960 --> 1:17:59.880 they try to onboard new people, like into the union, 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:01.800 get them involved with the Like why do they care? 1:18:01.840 --> 1:18:03.680 They can just fucking go home and like pash their 1:18:03.760 --> 1:18:06.519 checks and get whatever the fuck benefits are getting from 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:07.519 the league for doing this shit. 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:11.280 Yeah, yeah, I want to know those benefits are. I 1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:12.160 just want to know. 1:18:12.520 --> 1:18:15.080 Yep, me too. I would love like really. 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:16.519 Because when it gets down to like how much is 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:17.479 your soul worth? Man? 1:18:17.720 --> 1:18:20.559 Yeah, like j C is one of those guys ultimately 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:22.680 who has made enough money playing in football where he. 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:25.000 Doesn't have to do this. Yeah, you know, he doesn't 1:18:25.040 --> 1:18:26.000 have to go around like this. 1:18:26.200 --> 1:18:29.559 Like it's it's a little baffling in that sense, Like 1:18:30.040 --> 1:18:32.600 and I know that, like I guess something that I 1:18:32.640 --> 1:18:34.080 guess I struggle sometimes. 1:18:33.880 --> 1:18:36.439 Like why are y'all doing this fuck up shit? Like why? 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:40.160 Like it's really like that, like a couple more bucks 1:18:40.160 --> 1:18:42.320 really means that much to you, Like you're really willing 1:18:42.360 --> 1:18:44.639 to sell out all these people? But the answer is yes, 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:49.120 The answer is yes. Personally, I can't reconcile that it's abhorrent. 1:18:49.240 --> 1:18:52.160 It's terrible, but it's just the truth of the matter 1:18:52.200 --> 1:18:54.360 is so hopefully they can figure out a way to 1:18:54.680 --> 1:18:57.280 kind of dismantle this, but like man, even the fact 1:18:57.320 --> 1:18:59.840 that like man, you got like the Bears, they signed 1:18:59.880 --> 1:19:02.760 you and made all of a sudden like his clocks back, 1:19:02.760 --> 1:19:04.960 and now you have the same power structure as you 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:08.240 hit another landmark where you're gonna be negotiating for eighteen games. 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:11.120 That's a tough thing topple open man, that's a tough 1:19:11.160 --> 1:19:18.280 thing get past. It's really difficult. Yeah, eat at Arby's. Actually, 1:19:18.320 --> 1:19:18.800 don't do that. 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:19.760 Army is not good. 1:19:19.840 --> 1:19:26.400 No, it's just well, I think that's a decent point 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:28.880 to sort of end. Don unless you have a Yeah, 1:19:28.880 --> 1:19:29.880 do you have anything else? Do you want to make 1:19:29.880 --> 1:19:31.479 sure people know about this whole thing? 1:19:32.439 --> 1:19:35.320 I would say, like, if you're not watching football, you should. 1:19:35.400 --> 1:19:39.479 It's a great game. I look, I say this as 1:19:39.520 --> 1:19:43.679 somewhere football has like materially harmed me. Like my back 1:19:43.840 --> 1:19:46.000 is messed up. I've had two hernie a dis my 1:19:46.120 --> 1:19:48.639 back son seventeen, I turned thirty two this year. It's 1:19:48.680 --> 1:19:50.800 like half my life, you know, would I do it again? 1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:51.519 Fuck? 1:19:51.840 --> 1:19:56.439 Yeah, I don't know, don't I don't know? 1:19:56.439 --> 1:19:59.080 And like this this is where like my my like 1:19:59.080 --> 1:20:01.360 the people who know me, they like, man, you're wired 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:04.920 a little differently, But I think that standard for football players. 1:20:04.960 --> 1:20:08.960 Like it's a really complicated relationship, but like all my 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:12.200 best friends are still like football related in some way, 1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:15.320 whether it's college or journalism now or you know. 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:16.720 Going back to high school back in the day. 1:20:16.760 --> 1:20:19.360 Like I still talk to so many people that I 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:22.040 played football with, Like I'm watching like I'm the guy 1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:25.200 watching these like crappy like Division two games like on 1:20:25.240 --> 1:20:28.800 a on a Friday night. It's it's awesome. So like 1:20:28.840 --> 1:20:31.479 you know, yeah, you should check out Lamar Jackson, Like 1:20:31.600 --> 1:20:34.599 just go on YouTube, just look up a highlight and then. 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:39.000 This is it's just wild. Like you know when you when. 1:20:38.920 --> 1:20:42.320 You've watched football or really any of these sports, like 1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:46.599 they are just inescapable. I hate to even say micro 1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:49.759 consins of like American society because like this is obviously 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:52.840 this is this is American society. Like when you just 1:20:52.840 --> 1:20:56.680 look on the influence that football has, like the economy 1:20:56.840 --> 1:21:00.760 as a whole, and the way that people who are 1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:03.519 less fortunate are able to be extracted and run into 1:21:03.560 --> 1:21:06.240 the ground, yeah, and forgotten even by the people who 1:21:06.280 --> 1:21:08.680 are supposed to protect them. I think that's something that 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:12.200 we see here just about every arena of American life. 1:21:12.240 --> 1:21:13.360 So I would just. 1:21:13.280 --> 1:21:16.080 Implore some of our our fellow leftisium don't be the 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:19.120 who cares about sports, because whether you know about it, 1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:22.800 sports is interacting and directly impacting your life in this 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:26.920 country every single day. And I think it's important to 1:21:26.960 --> 1:21:29.040 kind of care about some of the labor practices that 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:32.439 are going on. Even if you know the labor practices 1:21:32.479 --> 1:21:35.559 are around Lamar Jackson getting paid you know, sixty million 1:21:35.600 --> 1:21:37.519 dollars a year over fifty million dollars a year, but 1:21:37.560 --> 1:21:39.280 it's still it's still important. 1:21:39.880 --> 1:21:41.439 Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think there's 1:21:41.439 --> 1:21:43.680 two there's two points I can make there. One is 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:47.000 that like, yeah, I don't know, like it was it was. 1:21:47.040 --> 1:21:50.600 It was the fucking like transwomanted college sports thing was 1:21:50.640 --> 1:21:53.280 like one of the two avenues through which like, oh wait, 1:21:53.320 --> 1:21:55.080 hold on, a bunch of us just don't have fucking 1:21:55.160 --> 1:21:58.960 rights now. Yeah, And you know, and like and that 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:00.960 that kind of like cultural stuff that comes out of 1:22:01.040 --> 1:22:04.600 places that we're just not usually. 1:22:04.800 --> 1:22:09.240 Right right, and just to tack onto that, as we've 1:22:09.280 --> 1:22:14.160 seen over the past few months and as many dangered 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:18.519 and misrepresented and punched down communities have said to y'all 1:22:18.600 --> 1:22:21.160 forever and I say this as a black person. If 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:23.760 they do it to us, yep, we'll do it to you. 1:22:24.320 --> 1:22:27.960 At some points, it's just sad that like we've gotten 1:22:28.000 --> 1:22:31.439 to the point where, you know, you've been fighting and 1:22:31.520 --> 1:22:34.240 screaming for so long, like, bro, could you just turn 1:22:34.320 --> 1:22:37.000 your head this way and just look you see, Like. 1:22:37.320 --> 1:22:40.360 Bro, we're the same man. We're all just humans out 1:22:40.360 --> 1:22:41.240 here trying to make it. 1:22:41.640 --> 1:22:44.720 That thought process is just so violently opposed by the 1:22:44.720 --> 1:22:48.120 powers it be, and it's just so ingrained in our society, 1:22:48.200 --> 1:22:49.960 like certain people have to get stepped on that you 1:22:50.000 --> 1:22:52.880 will let yourself get stepped on. And now, shit, we 1:22:52.960 --> 1:22:55.680 got videos of you know, people getting executed in the 1:22:55.680 --> 1:22:58.200 street in Minneapolis, and what's happened. 1:22:58.680 --> 1:23:00.440 Nothing, just like. 1:23:00.240 --> 1:23:02.839 Every other police shooting, you know, of a black person 1:23:02.960 --> 1:23:05.960 or or a transperson getting killed, Like, yeah, nothing happened, 1:23:06.439 --> 1:23:08.880 and nothing keeps happening, and ultimately we get to a 1:23:08.920 --> 1:23:11.760 point where that's just the norm. So shit, there's a 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:14.599 lot of stuff to fight. But you can even see 1:23:14.600 --> 1:23:18.720 like how the NFL union has followed that stame like deterioration. 1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:19.120 Yep. 1:23:19.240 --> 1:23:22.240 Shit, you know, you go back to the twenty eleventh CBA, 1:23:22.479 --> 1:23:24.600 you threw the rookies under the bus, and then what 1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.599 the omners do? They came and took your money too, right, 1:23:27.960 --> 1:23:30.240 And then when it came down to you know, the 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:33.080 twenty twenty CBA, you guys have set such a precedent 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:36.960 of us running your pockets that we will set the hard, 1:23:37.479 --> 1:23:40.280 non negotiable stance of an extra football game and you 1:23:40.360 --> 1:23:44.559 will capitulate. That's everywhere, man, that that is everywhere in 1:23:44.640 --> 1:23:47.000 the corporate structure and lafe of America. So yeah, yeah, 1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.400 sports in is capable. Check out Lamar Jackson. On some days, 1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:50.040 it's good stuff. 1:23:50.720 --> 1:23:51.599 Yeah, I think, I think. 1:23:52.400 --> 1:23:52.599 I think. 1:23:52.680 --> 1:23:54.559 The one last thing I want to say is that, 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:58.080 you know, the reform calock is taking over the UAW 1:23:58.200 --> 1:24:00.559 with something that was seen as impossible. Like it was 1:24:00.720 --> 1:24:03.920 like literally, I mean like every union has a reform caucus, 1:24:03.920 --> 1:24:07.639 they normally lose every single time, and then one day 1:24:07.640 --> 1:24:10.760 they won and it like completely changed what the labor 1:24:10.760 --> 1:24:13.800 movement in America is. And you know, the thing, the 1:24:13.800 --> 1:24:16.560 thing about organizing reform caucuses is that I know that 1:24:16.760 --> 1:24:20.040 people who organize these things like they're just random people. Yeah, 1:24:20.080 --> 1:24:22.200 like anyone can do this. This is this is not 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:26.160 something that requires like you know, an incredibly specialized skill set, 1:24:26.560 --> 1:24:29.920 you can just do it. And as much like actual 1:24:30.000 --> 1:24:34.160 teenagers do this shit watching people and how tenaciously they 1:24:34.200 --> 1:24:37.720 can fight and watching them win. That that's how I 1:24:37.720 --> 1:24:40.240 get out of bed in the morning, is I have 1:24:40.400 --> 1:24:44.840 I have seen the hope in how how people can 1:24:44.880 --> 1:24:48.720 fight fights that are just unwinnable, that are so unfathomable 1:24:49.439 --> 1:24:51.519 that most people don't even think there's a point in 1:24:51.520 --> 1:24:54.160 fighting it, and then one day they win. Yeah, and 1:24:54.600 --> 1:24:57.519 yeah maybe one day well. 1:24:57.439 --> 1:24:59.400 Two, I mean, I mean yeah, and if you just 1:24:59.439 --> 1:25:03.080 think about the basis of the NFL PA, because now 1:25:03.439 --> 1:25:06.519 it's an anti trust blocker, right, that's what it is now, 1:25:06.560 --> 1:25:09.320 But the roots of it, yeah, there were guys trying 1:25:09.320 --> 1:25:12.439 to get rights for they trying to get paid for 1:25:12.640 --> 1:25:14.639 the amount of time that they put into this job. 1:25:14.840 --> 1:25:17.720 One of the base complaints is when the league was 1:25:17.720 --> 1:25:20.360 smaller and you had like kind of other leagues you 1:25:20.400 --> 1:25:23.600 know that are defunked now or were absorbed by the 1:25:23.640 --> 1:25:26.000 AFC or the NFC before it all merged the NFL. 1:25:26.520 --> 1:25:29.439 One of the basises was the NFL owners would ban 1:25:29.600 --> 1:25:31.920 you if you played in another league, like if you 1:25:31.920 --> 1:25:33.280 spent any time playing another league. 1:25:33.360 --> 1:25:35.120 They would ban you for five years. Man, that's your 1:25:35.120 --> 1:25:38.400 whole career, right. Yeah, And I don't know if this 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:40.639 made the show, if we're talking about before the show, but. 1:25:40.720 --> 1:25:43.720 One of the things that got the NFLP like organized 1:25:43.720 --> 1:25:46.519 in the fifties was guys were doing training camp in 1:25:46.600 --> 1:25:49.640 preseason games for free. They weren't getting paid for it. 1:25:50.040 --> 1:25:52.400 But these are just regular men who are just like, 1:25:52.560 --> 1:25:55.240 fuck it, I'm tired of this. Yeah, And sadly it 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:58.000 has been co opted into something that does not represent 1:25:58.040 --> 1:26:00.320 what it was before. But you know, this stuff is 1:26:00.360 --> 1:26:02.599 started by reckless people who are saying, fuck it, I'm 1:26:02.600 --> 1:26:04.160 tired of this. We got to make a change. 1:26:04.760 --> 1:26:08.360 Yeah, And I think on that note, where can people 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:09.000 find your work? 1:26:09.439 --> 1:26:12.679 Yeah, you can find me on blue Sky or verts. 1:26:13.240 --> 1:26:16.840 You can find me on Yahoo Sports Football three oh 1:26:16.880 --> 1:26:18.680 one podcast. I'm trying to be found a little bit 1:26:18.760 --> 1:26:19.559 less these days. 1:26:19.920 --> 1:26:23.240 That's so reasonable blue Sky can find for. 1:26:23.200 --> 1:26:26.519 The most part. Yeah, you know, it's a little less. 1:26:27.200 --> 1:26:29.080 I get there's a read. There's a reason I'm not 1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:29.960 putting by handling. 1:26:32.640 --> 1:26:35.439 Yeah, but I will say this is not necessarily a 1:26:35.479 --> 1:26:37.479 friendly blue Sky count. I'm not one of those guys 1:26:37.479 --> 1:26:40.880 who's just gonna let you pop off. We do clap 1:26:40.920 --> 1:26:42.920 back around here, right. 1:26:45.080 --> 1:27:17.439 We do, in fact love to see Yeah. 1:27:02.800 --> 1:27:04.960 Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. My 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:07.439 name is Daniel Kurd. I'm a researcher of Arab in 1:27:07.520 --> 1:27:11.240 Palestinian politics. Today I'm joined by Molli Krabapple, an award 1:27:11.240 --> 1:27:12.519 winning writer and artist. 1:27:12.920 --> 1:27:14.040 She's written three books. 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:16.240 Is co author of the book Brothers of the Gun 1:27:16.320 --> 1:27:20.200 and Illustrated Collaboration with Syrian war journalist Montjuan Hisham, which 1:27:20.240 --> 1:27:23.200 was a New York Times Notable Book and longlisted for 1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:26.439 the twenty eighteen National Book Award, and her memoir Drawing 1:27:26.439 --> 1:27:30.400 Bud also received global praise. Her most recent book is 1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:32.640 Here Where We Live Is Our Country, The Story of 1:27:32.640 --> 1:27:35.639 the Jewish Bund, and it'll be out on April seventh. 1:27:36.120 --> 1:27:37.839 I've already pre ordered. I'm very excited. 1:27:38.439 --> 1:27:41.200 So I wanted to talk to Mollie today given how 1:27:41.240 --> 1:27:43.800 relevant the history she outlines in her book is to 1:27:43.840 --> 1:27:46.439 this current moment, especially for the American Jewish community. 1:27:46.520 --> 1:27:48.719 So thank you Mollie for joining us. 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:50.880 Thank you so much, Donna for having me. It's my 1:27:51.080 --> 1:27:52.080 total honor to be here. 1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:57.000 So you describe in the book The Bunns Philosophy of 1:27:57.080 --> 1:28:00.320 doy k or hearness as a rejection of the idea 1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:04.320 that Jews need to seek a homeland elsewhere to find safety. 1:28:05.320 --> 1:28:08.160 How did you come to understand this concept personally? 1:28:08.640 --> 1:28:11.120 And why do you think it was, at least from 1:28:11.120 --> 1:28:15.719 my perspective, so thoroughly erased from mainstream Jewish historical memory 1:28:15.720 --> 1:28:16.640 after the Holocaust. 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:20.160 I mean I came across dokit through studying the Booned, 1:28:20.200 --> 1:28:23.479 which I came across through the watercolors of my great 1:28:23.479 --> 1:28:27.120 grandfather Samuel Brothboord, who was a post Impressionist painter who 1:28:27.200 --> 1:28:29.400 was a member of the boond as a young man. 1:28:29.240 --> 1:28:29.960 Back in Russia. 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:36.280 And the concept of dokite or heereness means is it's 1:28:36.280 --> 1:28:40.200 a defiant assertion of rootedness in a place that wanted 1:28:40.280 --> 1:28:44.040 Jews dead. Jews had lived in Eastern Europe for over 1:28:44.120 --> 1:28:49.320 a thousand years, but in the eighteenth, nineteenth and at 1:28:49.320 --> 1:28:52.400 the dawn of the twentieth century, these countries were some 1:28:52.439 --> 1:28:54.439 of the roughest places to be a Jew in the world. 1:28:54.800 --> 1:28:57.679 In the Tsarist Empire, Jews were racialized minority. It set 1:28:57.680 --> 1:28:59.880 it on their papers. They could only like live in 1:28:59.880 --> 1:29:03.200 a certain area. There was military conscription for twenty five years. 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:06.439 It sucked, shall we say. And in inter war Poland 1:29:06.520 --> 1:29:11.160 as well, the government was trying to use racism as 1:29:11.280 --> 1:29:15.400 a glue to hold this diverse and quite impoverished country together. 1:29:16.400 --> 1:29:20.200 So what here this meant is it meant that Jews 1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:23.160 had the right to live and not just live, not 1:29:23.240 --> 1:29:26.719 just survive, not just cling to life, but to flourish 1:29:26.720 --> 1:29:29.479 and have beautiful lives in their homes that they had 1:29:29.479 --> 1:29:32.519 lived in for the last thousand years. And that even 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:37.120 if European Christians thought that Jews were, you know, Sath, 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:40.400 the Oriental aliens who needed to be forcibly deported to Palestine, 1:29:40.439 --> 1:29:44.240 which is exactly what the Polish interwar government thought, even 1:29:44.280 --> 1:29:46.800 if that's what the was in power thought, Jews had 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:49.439 a right to live and flourish in freedom and dignity 1:29:49.560 --> 1:29:51.879 in their homes, because that's the right that every single 1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:55.080 human on this earth has. And in many ways it 1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:59.000 almost reminds me of this like precursor echo of the 1:29:59.000 --> 1:30:02.519 Palestinian concept of some mood, of the steadfastness to stay 1:30:02.520 --> 1:30:07.040 in your home despite the genocidal predations of the Israeli state. 1:30:07.560 --> 1:30:11.439 And I think that the concept of heareness was crushed 1:30:11.680 --> 1:30:13.840 by a variety of things. I mean, first of all, 1:30:14.040 --> 1:30:16.200 as we all know, you know, there was a genocide 1:30:16.200 --> 1:30:19.200 in Europe that wiped out two thirds of European Jews 1:30:19.760 --> 1:30:22.200 and wiped out ninety percent of the Jews in Poland. 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:23.720 But it wasn't just that. 1:30:23.760 --> 1:30:27.799 It was also that after the genocide, countries like Poland 1:30:28.760 --> 1:30:33.719 were so psychopathically violent to Jewish survivors that it convinced 1:30:33.920 --> 1:30:37.040 the overwhelming majority of Polish Jewish survivors that they had 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:39.400 to go somewhere else. There are about a thousand Jews 1:30:39.400 --> 1:30:42.840 that were murdered by nationalists in the aftermath of the Holocaust, 1:30:43.840 --> 1:30:46.000 including you know, dozens who were burned alive in this 1:30:46.120 --> 1:30:50.960 like famous town called Kiltze. Now, whether that somewhere else 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:56.040 meant Palestine or whether that meant New York City, that 1:30:56.280 --> 1:30:58.240 was something that was very much up to the visa 1:30:58.439 --> 1:31:01.800 regimes of the era. The vast majority of Jews who 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:05.759 survived the Holocaust did not necessarily want to go to Palestine, 1:31:05.800 --> 1:31:08.040 let alone to you know, sign up to join the 1:31:08.120 --> 1:31:12.639 Haganah and throw themselves as cannon fodder into another war. 1:31:12.680 --> 1:31:17.280 After surviving Auschwitz. The majority of Jewish survivors probably. 1:31:16.920 --> 1:31:19.120 Wanted to go live with their families in America and 1:31:19.160 --> 1:31:23.280 in other countries that had large Jewish communities, But the 1:31:23.320 --> 1:31:27.479 Western democracies, And tell me if this sounds familiar in 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:31.240 the current moment. While the Western democracies preached a language 1:31:31.240 --> 1:31:35.880 of human rights and universalism, in practice they were quite 1:31:36.000 --> 1:31:39.559 content to let impoverished refugees wrought in camps. Does that 1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:42.920 I could see no other echoes? Of course not No, 1:31:43.040 --> 1:31:45.439 it has only happened once ever, Yeah, yeah, definitely we've 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:48.040 learned our lesson, and yeah, exactly, the world has definitely 1:31:48.080 --> 1:31:52.240 learned this lesson about the corrosive effects of hypocrisy. And 1:31:52.439 --> 1:31:56.760 so Zionist groups were able to take over camp administrations 1:31:56.840 --> 1:32:00.080 and use them as recruiting grounds and to convince and 1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:05.760 in fact sometimes violently coerce survivors to go to Palestine 1:32:05.920 --> 1:32:09.960 and in many cases to do the Nakba. And I 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:13.479 think that these are the concrete reasons, right that the 1:32:13.520 --> 1:32:18.000 concept of Dokhite was so crushed, so erased, right like 1:32:18.000 --> 1:32:21.679 it was physically erased, you know, violence. But there's something 1:32:21.720 --> 1:32:24.679 more than that, even because you know, there are many, 1:32:24.760 --> 1:32:27.719 many movements that are physically crushed with violence, whose memories 1:32:27.760 --> 1:32:30.120 are vivid and alive and resonant to think about, like 1:32:30.120 --> 1:32:33.759 the Black Panther Party in America, you know, who were 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:37.400 subject to the most brutal violence by the state, but 1:32:37.439 --> 1:32:40.760 who you know, remain as legends. And I think the 1:32:40.840 --> 1:32:43.840 reason that the Boones wasn't just physically crushed by the 1:32:43.840 --> 1:32:47.520 twentieth century, but the reason that it was so ideologically 1:32:47.520 --> 1:32:50.360 marginalized was because they always opposed Zionism. 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:53.519 From the very first days of their founding. They opposed 1:32:53.560 --> 1:32:54.719 Zionism as. 1:32:54.840 --> 1:32:57.720 A capitulation to the same European racists that wanted to 1:32:57.800 --> 1:33:00.519 kick Jews out of their home. And not only did 1:33:00.560 --> 1:33:04.519 they oppose Zionism because many Jewish groups opposed Zionism. The 1:33:04.560 --> 1:33:08.599 Satmar Pasidic community where I live also opposed Zionism. It 1:33:08.640 --> 1:33:12.400 wasn't just the Boon's opposition to Zionism that made Zionis 1:33:12.439 --> 1:33:18.360 so angry. It's that Zionism is built on this very 1:33:18.720 --> 1:33:22.640 self hating dichotomy. And that dichotomy is that there are 1:33:22.720 --> 1:33:26.000 diaspora Jews who were weak and that's why they were murdered, 1:33:26.520 --> 1:33:29.000 and then there are you know, the brave, big Dick 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:32.840 Israeli Sabras who are strong and bravely oppressing and murdering themselves, 1:33:32.840 --> 1:33:37.080 and that's why they live. And what the booned did 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:38.880 was it shows the lie of that because the boones 1:33:39.000 --> 1:33:42.400 were strong. They didn't just fight for their right to 1:33:42.400 --> 1:33:44.640 stay in Europe with graduate school seminars. 1:33:45.160 --> 1:33:47.360 They fought for it with brass knuckles and with guns. 1:33:48.000 --> 1:33:52.160 The statement here where we live is our country isn't 1:33:52.479 --> 1:33:54.160 something that has the same meaning as it would mean 1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:55.760 if I said it in New York City, like, of 1:33:55.800 --> 1:33:57.639 course New York is my city. 1:33:57.680 --> 1:33:58.559 It's fucking awesome. 1:33:59.040 --> 1:34:00.960 When they said it, I always felt like there was 1:34:00.960 --> 1:34:03.479 an implied motherfucker at the end. Here where we live 1:34:03.520 --> 1:34:05.519 as our country, motherfucker. Whether you like it or not, 1:34:05.640 --> 1:34:08.080 we're born here and it's ours right. 1:34:08.400 --> 1:34:09.400 It's so powerful. 1:34:09.800 --> 1:34:14.080 And I'm glad that you mentioned other kind of ideological 1:34:14.240 --> 1:34:18.200 like resonances, like the Black Panthers. They don't really exist 1:34:18.200 --> 1:34:20.840 in the same way anymore, but they're still resonant in 1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:24.080 like black lives matter. It brings me to this next question, 1:34:24.120 --> 1:34:29.720 which is that especially younger Jewish Americans, they increasingly are questioning, 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:34.160 you know, Zionist narratives and they describe their solidarity with 1:34:34.200 --> 1:34:37.280 Palestinians not as a rejection of Jewish identity, but as 1:34:37.320 --> 1:34:40.559 a expression of their commitment to universal justice, and as 1:34:40.600 --> 1:34:44.040 a rejection maybe I'm Zionism, but not their Judaism. Do 1:34:44.080 --> 1:34:46.400 you think that this is a boon dist inheritance even 1:34:46.439 --> 1:34:49.960 if I'm conscious, or is it something new? 1:34:50.439 --> 1:34:54.160 I think that decent people of all stripes are seeing 1:34:54.280 --> 1:34:59.240 what Palestinian journalists and Lebanese journalists have risked their lives exposing. 1:34:59.280 --> 1:35:02.880 They're seeing a genus live streamed on their smartphones, and 1:35:02.920 --> 1:35:05.519 you know, live streamed by these amazing journalists, you know, 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:07.600 who are living in killing cages. And anyone who's a 1:35:07.600 --> 1:35:10.760 decent person, whether you're Jewish or not, will turn away 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:13.680 from the ideology that is responsible for that genocide. So 1:35:13.880 --> 1:35:17.400 I wouldn't say it's a bondust resonance that's making people 1:35:17.479 --> 1:35:20.960 turn against you know, Zionist institutions. I think it's just 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:24.120 their basic humanity, the same as so many other groups 1:35:24.120 --> 1:35:26.080 of people are. And I credited a lot to the 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:29.519 amazing work of Palestinians who have done so much work 1:35:29.560 --> 1:35:31.840 with so much grace at you know, such huge risks 1:35:31.840 --> 1:35:33.759 of their lives to be able to tell. 1:35:33.560 --> 1:35:36.320 These stories for the world to know at least see. 1:35:36.840 --> 1:35:39.360 However, I think that there's something a little bit different 1:35:39.400 --> 1:35:41.679 going on, which is that, you know, young Jews are 1:35:41.720 --> 1:35:45.559 seeing the Israeli mass murder machine for what it is. 1:35:46.160 --> 1:35:47.439 But if they've gone. 1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:50.360 Through like the standard issue you know, like Hebrew school education, 1:35:51.200 --> 1:35:54.120 they don't really learn a lot about Jewish history. Like 1:35:54.160 --> 1:35:58.440 the way you would learn about it would be ancient kingdoms, 1:35:58.479 --> 1:36:01.360 the par Kocopa revolt maybe if you're lucky, and then 1:36:01.439 --> 1:36:04.759 like a big, long, you know, two thousand year gap 1:36:04.800 --> 1:36:07.200 of horror and murder where nothing interesting or go what 1:36:07.280 --> 1:36:08.880 ever happened, and where you were just a victim of 1:36:08.920 --> 1:36:12.040 all of history, and then you know, glorious creation of 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:13.200 the state of Israel redemption. 1:36:13.439 --> 1:36:15.360 Like that's the sort of bullshit narrative you'd get. 1:36:16.439 --> 1:36:21.720 And when young Jews reject that narrative, as they should, 1:36:22.000 --> 1:36:23.720 you know, when they learn about the reality of what 1:36:23.840 --> 1:36:26.240 Zionism means, a lot of them are left with a 1:36:26.240 --> 1:36:29.719 real hole in them because they haven't like learned anything 1:36:29.720 --> 1:36:33.799 positive about their own heritage. They've just been fed fairy 1:36:33.880 --> 1:36:36.880 tales that are meant to you know, legitimize this state, 1:36:37.400 --> 1:36:39.400 and so you know, there's like a lot of a 1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:41.439 lot of shame, rite a lot of pain over that. 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:44.080 And I think what a lot of. 1:36:44.120 --> 1:36:46.360 Young Jewish people are trying to do is they're trying 1:36:46.400 --> 1:36:48.320 to look back to like their own grandparents and their 1:36:48.360 --> 1:36:51.519 own great grandparents. And for Jews in America, like most 1:36:51.600 --> 1:36:54.640 Jews in America come from Eastern European backgrounds, you know, 1:36:54.640 --> 1:36:57.559 it's a different, different sort of demographic breakdown than in Israel. 1:36:58.520 --> 1:37:02.920 And that sort of Jewish socialism is something that's very, 1:37:03.040 --> 1:37:07.760 very very present in so many people's family history. Not 1:37:07.760 --> 1:37:09.880 necessarily that you know, your grandfather was like the greatest 1:37:09.920 --> 1:37:12.759 socialist revolutionary in the world, but just that he belonged 1:37:12.760 --> 1:37:14.760 to a socialist garment union and was part of like 1:37:14.800 --> 1:37:17.000 a socialist mutual aid thing, because that was just the 1:37:17.000 --> 1:37:20.280 culture that so many American Jews swam in one hundred 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:24.240 years ago. And so I think there's this huge rediscovery 1:37:24.280 --> 1:37:28.880 of the boond and of Jewish socialism that's inspired by 1:37:29.680 --> 1:37:39.880 the rejection of the Chinesst genocide. 1:37:42.360 --> 1:37:44.920 On the one hand, I'm witnessing what you're saying, you know, 1:37:45.040 --> 1:37:46.720 like we're all kind of witnessing, like I said, it's 1:37:46.760 --> 1:37:50.439 not specifically to the Jewish community, but because the Jewish 1:37:50.439 --> 1:37:55.680 community has been fed, you know, this idea that is 1:37:55.760 --> 1:37:59.560 really so integral to their Jewishness and to their safety 1:37:59.600 --> 1:38:01.680 and to this, to these kinds of things, there is 1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:05.519 a very maybe specific way that they are metabolizing that 1:38:05.800 --> 1:38:09.080 or acting out against it. But at the same time, 1:38:09.080 --> 1:38:11.960 you know, we've seen a number of different polls, including 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:14.639 most recently the Jewish Federations of North America. 1:38:14.720 --> 1:38:15.360 They put out. 1:38:15.320 --> 1:38:20.360 Polling results where thirty seven percent identified as non Zionists 1:38:20.520 --> 1:38:25.000 and seven percent of their polling identified as anti Zionists. 1:38:25.840 --> 1:38:27.360 But it was an interesting. 1:38:27.000 --> 1:38:30.360 Poll because it's like both people who were like critical 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:32.760 of Israel and those who were supportive of Israel took 1:38:32.800 --> 1:38:37.320 it to mean that it, you know, confirmed their biases 1:38:37.600 --> 1:38:42.000 because despite the fact that the genocide has happened and 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:46.400 is happening, that anti Zionism component hasn't really risen very much. 1:38:47.000 --> 1:38:49.559 And then still a lot of polls show that, like 1:38:50.080 --> 1:38:54.040 people presume Israel is vital to Jewish continuity. 1:38:54.439 --> 1:38:57.240 So how do you make sense of that contradiction? Well, 1:38:57.280 --> 1:38:58.840 that's one question is how do you make sense of 1:38:58.920 --> 1:38:59.519 that contradiction? 1:38:59.560 --> 1:39:01.920 But the second question is like, do you think rediscovering 1:39:01.920 --> 1:39:03.960 bundestaught like offers a way through it? 1:39:04.720 --> 1:39:07.280 I do, actually, I mean I think that you know, 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:10.160 people have not just like been fed this idea that 1:39:10.240 --> 1:39:13.800 Israel is you know, like essential for their safety for continuity, 1:39:13.800 --> 1:39:15.919 but also that it's like an essential part of themselves. 1:39:15.920 --> 1:39:20.040 And I do think that it's very life affirming and 1:39:20.080 --> 1:39:22.840 important to know that you have something better that you 1:39:22.880 --> 1:39:25.360 can reject this shitty ideology. 1:39:26.040 --> 1:39:29.519 I mean, in terms of polls, I often feel like, I. 1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:32.240 Mean, maybe I'm maybe I'm just wrong about Americans, but 1:39:32.320 --> 1:39:34.400 I sometimes feel like people don't even know what the 1:39:34.400 --> 1:39:36.120 hell they're signing on to with poles, like I will 1:39:36.120 --> 1:39:39.080 see something where people be like, we want strong borders 1:39:39.120 --> 1:39:41.200 and to like you know, deport all the illegals, but 1:39:41.240 --> 1:39:43.920 also we fucking hate Ice, And I'm like, you just 1:39:44.040 --> 1:39:46.320 you just want like wildly contradictory things. 1:39:46.360 --> 1:39:48.360 And I wonder like how. 1:39:49.000 --> 1:39:51.960 I don't know, like how educated people even are, and 1:39:52.000 --> 1:39:55.120 how much like the framing of questions affects what people think. 1:39:55.200 --> 1:39:57.920 I mean, I'm trying to think of what to make 1:39:57.960 --> 1:39:58.120 of it. 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:01.080 I mean, I do think, you know, very sadly, like 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:05.000 there are a large number of you know, American Jewish people. 1:40:05.400 --> 1:40:08.000 And in some way I'm talking like outside of my 1:40:08.040 --> 1:40:10.680 own experience because my own family's not Zionist, so this 1:40:10.720 --> 1:40:12.680 is more like my speculation type thing. 1:40:13.560 --> 1:40:17.360 But you know, they're they're very progressive. They believe in 1:40:18.160 --> 1:40:19.519 you know, like ETI kid for all. 1:40:19.600 --> 1:40:23.120 They believe in you know, they believe the cops shouldn't 1:40:23.120 --> 1:40:25.360 be constantly murdering black people as they do in America 1:40:25.439 --> 1:40:25.840 all the time. 1:40:25.880 --> 1:40:27.520 They believe even ice should be abolished. 1:40:28.120 --> 1:40:33.880 But they also have this like unthinking emotional attachment to Israel, 1:40:33.920 --> 1:40:37.600 even if they literally hate everything that Israel's doing. And 1:40:37.640 --> 1:40:39.559 I feel like a lot of those people, what they'll 1:40:39.600 --> 1:40:41.240 do is they'll try to blame it on net Yahoo 1:40:41.720 --> 1:40:44.439 and not on the entire system, Like like I would 1:40:44.439 --> 1:40:47.320 see people who supported the protests, you know, over the 1:40:47.400 --> 1:40:51.720 judicial reform, but they weren't willing to like fully confront 1:40:52.280 --> 1:40:55.960 the absolute fucking horrors not just of the occupation but 1:40:56.320 --> 1:40:57.520 of Israel itself. 1:40:58.280 --> 1:40:59.639 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 1:40:59.840 --> 1:41:02.799 I've also, you know, obviously experienced that kind of block, 1:41:03.160 --> 1:41:06.360 you know, where it's easier to blame a particular government 1:41:07.120 --> 1:41:11.960 than to maybe think about, i mean the specificities of 1:41:12.040 --> 1:41:16.400 Israel's founding and Israel's ideology, but also like the violent 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.719 nature of nation states, and like just kind of thinking 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:21.920 through that I think can be a little bit difficult 1:41:21.960 --> 1:41:25.439 for people. And as someone who works on polling, like, yes, 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:30.040 there are so many contradictions. We take polling to understand 1:41:30.080 --> 1:41:34.600 the starting points, but that doesn't restrict our political imagination. 1:41:34.880 --> 1:41:37.880 Like that's how I think of it. It's obviously also 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:43.280 difficult for people to start to kind of maybe disentangle 1:41:44.080 --> 1:41:47.640 their emotional commitments to the state of Israel, especially in 1:41:47.680 --> 1:41:51.760 this moment where there are like white supremacists and Nazis 1:41:51.800 --> 1:41:57.280 and neo Nazis and all sorts of evil people regaining 1:41:57.479 --> 1:42:01.120 control of all sorts of you know, state institutions and 1:42:01.400 --> 1:42:05.080 finding you know, a great deal of legitimacy and a 1:42:05.080 --> 1:42:07.280 great deal of traction amongst the American public. 1:42:07.640 --> 1:42:10.000 It's difficult to tell. I think some parts of the 1:42:10.040 --> 1:42:10.960 American Jewish. 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:14.439 Community like, hey, Israel's not a safety valve for you, 1:42:15.160 --> 1:42:18.680 when in fact there's so much anti Semitism now in 1:42:18.680 --> 1:42:19.479 the United States. 1:42:20.280 --> 1:42:23.320 I mean, I feel like it's a self reinforcing loop. 1:42:23.400 --> 1:42:23.679 Though. 1:42:24.520 --> 1:42:28.920 I mean, on one hand, you have Jewish institutions who 1:42:29.080 --> 1:42:33.599 are literally sticking up this fucking flag of a state 1:42:33.720 --> 1:42:37.599 that is conducted by the ICC of doing genocide and 1:42:37.840 --> 1:42:40.760 you know, waving that flag around and having soldiers from 1:42:40.760 --> 1:42:43.599 an army that's doing a genocide speaking there like honored 1:42:43.640 --> 1:42:45.760 guests and saying like, this is what it means to 1:42:45.800 --> 1:42:46.240 be Jewish. 1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:47.479 It's that we back Israel. 1:42:48.320 --> 1:42:51.439 And on the other hand, you have these wormy little 1:42:51.520 --> 1:42:56.559 neo Nazis like Nick Fuentes who have always hated Jews, 1:42:56.560 --> 1:42:59.120 and not because of Israel. Nick Fuentes also thinks all 1:42:59.160 --> 1:43:01.559 women should be put in reading camps and all black 1:43:01.600 --> 1:43:03.200 people should be locked behind bars. 1:43:03.600 --> 1:43:06.160 Keats Jews because he's a neo Nazi. 1:43:06.360 --> 1:43:10.920 Who are seeing the rightful anger that people have with 1:43:11.120 --> 1:43:16.360 the ongoing genocide, and they're seeing people's disillusionment with both 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:21.320 political parties who are continuing to provide weapons and QN 1:43:21.439 --> 1:43:24.519 cover to Israel, and they're exploiting that. And that's something 1:43:24.680 --> 1:43:27.599 that fascism has always done, right, Like fascism has always 1:43:27.600 --> 1:43:31.200 exploited issues that are popular. It will try to exploit 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:34.640 the desire that people have for peace, for instance, it 1:43:34.720 --> 1:43:38.639 will try to exploit the desire people have for economic justice. 1:43:38.680 --> 1:43:41.519 But instead of you know, actually giving people economic justice. 1:43:41.520 --> 1:43:43.880 They'll just say, oh, it's the Jews, Oh it's the 1:43:43.920 --> 1:43:48.080 leftist billionaires, or it's George Soros, and yeah, like you 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:53.439 absolutely see some of the worst scumbags on earth who 1:43:53.520 --> 1:43:57.760 are exploiting the anger that people feel over the genocide 1:43:57.880 --> 1:44:01.360 in order to worm their way into power and to 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:02.800 worm their way into legitimacy. 1:44:02.800 --> 1:44:04.640 And I always think about this with Tucker Carlson. 1:44:04.680 --> 1:44:07.400 I mean, for me, like, okay, like he's like, you know, 1:44:07.479 --> 1:44:10.880 standard issue he has anti Jewish shit, that's like standard 1:44:10.920 --> 1:44:13.400 issue Christian shit. But like, for me, the thing that's 1:44:13.439 --> 1:44:17.719 so I hate so much about seeing smart people boost 1:44:17.720 --> 1:44:20.799 Tucker Carlson is that Tucker Carlson advocates the ethnic cleansing 1:44:20.800 --> 1:44:24.559 of the United States of immigrants. Ten months ago, he 1:44:24.960 --> 1:44:28.760 was on Megan Kelly praying about how he wanted one 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:31.000 million people deported in Trump's hundred days. 1:44:31.320 --> 1:44:33.320 He was even saying, we don't have to put them 1:44:33.320 --> 1:44:34.200 into tention centers. 1:44:34.200 --> 1:44:36.519 We can just force a million people, a million people 1:44:36.600 --> 1:44:39.600 over the border into Tijuana and quote, let the Mexicans 1:44:39.600 --> 1:44:43.599 deal with them. This is hardcore white supremacist ethnic cleansing, 1:44:43.720 --> 1:44:46.000 and it's not just a speculative thing. There are tens 1:44:46.000 --> 1:44:48.439 of thousands of immigrants right now in concentration camps in 1:44:48.479 --> 1:44:52.439 the US. And the fact that anyone, because he gives 1:44:52.479 --> 1:44:56.160 good clip on Palestine, thinks that he's their ally when 1:44:56.600 --> 1:45:00.320 he would happily support the same eye system that is 1:45:00.479 --> 1:45:02.639 locking up Palestinians right now, is insane. 1:45:02.640 --> 1:45:06.400 It's madness. And I just I mean, I know that. 1:45:06.439 --> 1:45:11.880 People are so traumatized and so heartbroken and you know, 1:45:11.960 --> 1:45:14.680 even being like driven crazy by the ongoing genocide and 1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:19.400 by the American enthusiastic collusion with the genocide. But there 1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:22.760 has to be a certain basic level of solidarity with 1:45:23.040 --> 1:45:25.600 other groups who are also under threat, like all the 1:45:25.640 --> 1:45:27.600 other immigrant communities that are getting round and I've been 1:45:27.600 --> 1:45:29.320 putting in concentration camps right now. 1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:32.759 No, absolutely, I mean there has to be a basic 1:45:32.800 --> 1:45:35.639 minimum level of solidarity and like a basic minimum level 1:45:35.680 --> 1:45:40.080 of like analysis, like yeah, yeah, exactly. The animating force 1:45:40.120 --> 1:45:43.720 behind Tucker Carlson is not love for Palestinians or like 1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:47.880 some you know, desire for justice or anything, you know, 1:45:47.960 --> 1:45:51.160 So it's like the natural conclusion of attacker Carls and 1:45:51.320 --> 1:45:54.439 is something like the ethnic cleansing that he's asking for 1:45:55.200 --> 1:45:57.559 it has been disturbing to seek and continue to see 1:45:57.840 --> 1:46:02.240 how people have really convince themselves that this is something 1:46:02.320 --> 1:46:05.760 to try to capitalize on. I mean, Tucker Carlson went 1:46:05.800 --> 1:46:09.639 to the Middle East and people were taking photos with him, 1:46:10.200 --> 1:46:13.040 and I'm like, this man hates you. This man doesn't 1:46:13.080 --> 1:46:15.479 care about any of these things that you care about. 1:46:15.880 --> 1:46:18.920 But like you said, it's just the situation is so 1:46:19.040 --> 1:46:23.280 bad that people are willing to forego solidarity and basic 1:46:23.439 --> 1:46:36.760 political truths to engage with someone like him. I mean, 1:46:36.760 --> 1:46:38.840 you've kind of mentioned it and alluded to it, and 1:46:38.880 --> 1:46:42.360 your answers already about Jewish institutions like finding Israeli flag 1:46:42.400 --> 1:46:43.000 and things like that. 1:46:43.840 --> 1:46:45.120 Who are the forces today? 1:46:45.400 --> 1:46:50.040 What are the institutions today that benefit from something like 1:46:50.520 --> 1:46:54.720 the boond and like its philosophy not being revisited, and 1:46:54.880 --> 1:46:57.599 what did they stand to lose if these Buddhist ideas 1:46:57.720 --> 1:46:58.920 become widely known again. 1:46:59.560 --> 1:47:04.840 I feel like the vast majority of mainstream Jewish institutions, 1:47:05.520 --> 1:47:09.760 I mean, there's obviously like the ADL, right, you know, 1:47:10.160 --> 1:47:14.200 a ridiculous group that I almost feel like primarily exists 1:47:14.320 --> 1:47:17.479 to try to like terrify elderly people, so that Jonathan 1:47:17.520 --> 1:47:21.000 Green Blat keeps getting his ridiculously inflated salary and keeps 1:47:21.000 --> 1:47:23.960 getting to like prants around like he's important. There's you know, 1:47:24.040 --> 1:47:27.080 like the campus Hillales right, who claim that they're just 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:29.599 you know, a neutral thing for Jewish identity, but make 1:47:29.640 --> 1:47:32.360 it a prerequisite that you're Zionist. There's just like a 1:47:32.479 --> 1:47:37.200 vast amount of institutional Jewish groups that are not democratic. 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:38.920 They're not things that we vote for. I did not 1:47:38.960 --> 1:47:42.240 fucking vote for Jonathan Greenblat to be appointed my spokesman, 1:47:43.040 --> 1:47:46.160 you know, I didn't vote for these things like these 1:47:46.200 --> 1:47:50.160 are institutions led by very wealthy people that are. 1:47:50.040 --> 1:47:53.360 In no way responsive to young Jews. They're not responsive to. 1:47:54.120 --> 1:47:58.760 Like ordinary people, and they want to keep having their 1:47:58.800 --> 1:48:03.519 sort of stranglehold on getting to be the like spokesman for. 1:48:04.120 --> 1:48:06.240 These very very very diverse communities. 1:48:07.160 --> 1:48:10.120 And I think that, you know, as the boond and 1:48:11.080 --> 1:48:17.080 as other anti Zionist forms of Jewishness are discovered and rediscovered, 1:48:17.720 --> 1:48:21.160 that these spokespeople are terrified because I mean, the biggest 1:48:21.160 --> 1:48:23.479 thing that they want that they're so terrified about is 1:48:23.520 --> 1:48:25.120 they're terrified. 1:48:24.640 --> 1:48:27.559 About losing the young people. The whole project. 1:48:27.640 --> 1:48:30.720 It's about, you know, like this Jewish continuity, they call it. 1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:33.200 And you know Jewish people like getting married to each other, 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:36.920 you know, having kids, like contributing money to their institutions, 1:48:36.960 --> 1:48:39.120 you know, maybe making Aliyah to Israel. 1:48:39.200 --> 1:48:40.880 And if people are like. 1:48:41.000 --> 1:48:47.080 No, I reject this, I reject this state that's committing 1:48:47.080 --> 1:48:49.720 a genocide, and I reject this ideology built on supremacy. 1:48:49.720 --> 1:48:51.400 And actually it's like fine to live in New York 1:48:51.439 --> 1:48:55.000 City and to you know, live and love and struggle 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:59.360 alongside my neighbors. That's directly antithetical to their project. And 1:48:59.400 --> 1:49:02.080 I think that's why the Boon has not just been 1:49:02.160 --> 1:49:07.160 a race, but it's mirror mentioned provokes such anger. Like 1:49:07.479 --> 1:49:09.600 sometimes I just look through my comments and it's just 1:49:09.640 --> 1:49:13.720 these endless fucking comments from people being like, boond all 1:49:13.800 --> 1:49:14.800 died in the Holocaust. 1:49:14.920 --> 1:49:17.840 Lol, Like what do you say to this, right, that's 1:49:17.880 --> 1:49:21.439 so disstic. Yeah, the boons was all gassed. Lol, you 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:24.720 want you used to be gassed? You know, Zionists are thriving. 1:49:24.320 --> 1:49:27.840 And I'm like, this is the most psychopathic to talk 1:49:27.880 --> 1:49:30.280 about self hating, right, mocking people for being murdered in 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:34.800 the Holocaust. You know, it's because the Boone's ideology of 1:49:35.479 --> 1:49:39.680 solidarity cross difference of heereness and of socialism is profoundly threatening. 1:49:40.240 --> 1:49:44.080 And honestly like what Thriving was happening, Like people in 1:49:44.120 --> 1:49:48.240 Israel are terrified. There are missiles raining down like a garrison. 1:49:48.320 --> 1:49:52.680 State cannot keep people safe. No such Ethno state can 1:49:52.760 --> 1:49:56.439 keep people safe. But and I'm reminded also from your 1:49:56.439 --> 1:50:00.200 answer about Maril Angel's article, I think last year and 1:50:00.320 --> 1:50:03.599 Jewish currents, we need new Jewish institutions. I think it's 1:50:03.640 --> 1:50:05.720 like they see the writing on the wall that this 1:50:05.800 --> 1:50:07.240 is something that's going to happen. 1:50:07.280 --> 1:50:08.920 And with books like. 1:50:08.880 --> 1:50:12.160 Yours, with kind of a revisiting of this history, it 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:15.920 only hastens, you know, this kind of political project coming 1:50:15.960 --> 1:50:18.880 to fruition. My last question that I have for you 1:50:19.560 --> 1:50:23.760 is more about the memory project nature of it all. 1:50:24.320 --> 1:50:26.960 You write in your book about your great grandfather. You've 1:50:26.960 --> 1:50:30.160 already mentioned Samuel Rothbert about how he painted these memory 1:50:30.200 --> 1:50:35.240 paintings to kind of resurrect the vanished world of Eastern Europe, 1:50:35.560 --> 1:50:38.439 and you've also kind of written this book in the 1:50:38.479 --> 1:50:39.120 same way. 1:50:39.240 --> 1:50:42.200 What do you think the relationship is between this. 1:50:42.160 --> 1:50:46.280 Kind of recovery of erased history and building a politics 1:50:46.320 --> 1:50:46.920 for the present. 1:50:47.360 --> 1:50:49.760 Thank you, I mean, I spent seven years on this book. 1:50:49.840 --> 1:50:51.040 I learned Yiddish. 1:50:51.240 --> 1:50:53.840 That's wild, by the way, that's amazing. 1:50:53.400 --> 1:50:55.160 I know, right, You know, I resented because I studied 1:50:55.160 --> 1:50:57.040 Arabic for so long and I like had finally gotten 1:50:57.080 --> 1:50:58.920 like I don't want to say good, but mediocre at it. 1:50:59.160 --> 1:51:01.280 And then I feel like Yiddish pushed it out of 1:51:01.280 --> 1:51:04.760 my brain and I'm just like, no, I want my 1:51:04.800 --> 1:51:05.479 Arabic back. 1:51:05.760 --> 1:51:07.479 But yeah, I studied, I learned Yiddish. 1:51:07.640 --> 1:51:11.200 I went to, you know, all the countries that I 1:51:11.240 --> 1:51:13.240 could that the boond was active in. I wasn't able 1:51:13.280 --> 1:51:15.120 to go to Belarus or Russia, but I went to 1:51:15.160 --> 1:51:18.320 like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania. I went to Ukraine during the 1:51:18.400 --> 1:51:23.559 Russian invasion. I translated so many books. I think I'm 1:51:23.600 --> 1:51:27.040 probably the only person who has read all five volumes 1:51:27.080 --> 1:51:31.639 of the terrifically boring geshichtefon Bound Official for History. And 1:51:32.000 --> 1:51:34.200 I felt like I was doing ncromancy, you know, I 1:51:34.200 --> 1:51:38.560 felt like I was in love with these rebel ancestors, 1:51:38.640 --> 1:51:43.200 these gun toting seamstresses, these lovers on the barricades, these 1:51:43.439 --> 1:51:47.439 stubborn people who constructed whole worlds out of love. And grit, 1:51:47.560 --> 1:51:50.120 even when siety wanted to crush them, I just like 1:51:50.160 --> 1:51:54.040 fell in love, and I didn't just want to resurrect 1:51:54.120 --> 1:51:57.839 them from erasure because their philosophy was apposed to Zionism, 1:51:57.880 --> 1:51:59.880 though that was also that was part of it. Of course, 1:52:01.000 --> 1:52:04.320 I wanted to resurrect them because the boond were amazing, 1:52:04.680 --> 1:52:08.759 because they fought back against every single bastard of their age. 1:52:08.840 --> 1:52:11.759 They fought for an ethos that was rooted in human 1:52:11.840 --> 1:52:14.680 dignity and in human flourishing and freedom, but also in 1:52:14.720 --> 1:52:18.040 economic justice and leftism. I just fell in love and 1:52:18.120 --> 1:52:21.320 I wanted them to live again. And you know, one 1:52:21.360 --> 1:52:24.400 of the things that the powers that be do is 1:52:24.439 --> 1:52:27.080 that they try to impose themselves onto the past. They 1:52:27.080 --> 1:52:30.440 try to say, because we won, now, it was inevitable 1:52:30.479 --> 1:52:31.200 that we would win. 1:52:31.479 --> 1:52:33.120 It was always going to be like this. 1:52:33.560 --> 1:52:37.720 There is no alternative, as Margaret Etcher said, And what 1:52:37.840 --> 1:52:42.479 you do when you preserve these repable histories is you 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:45.880 show that that's not the case. It expands our capacity 1:52:45.920 --> 1:52:50.240 for fight, it expands our capacity for imagination. Things could 1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:52.759 have been differently and people still can change the world. 1:52:53.680 --> 1:52:56.840 Yeah, there's nothing inevitable, and you always have agency. I 1:52:56.840 --> 1:52:59.080 think that that's like the thing that like, I gang 1:52:59.080 --> 1:53:01.719 goose bumps thinking about when I think about these kinds 1:53:01.720 --> 1:53:04.599 of people, because they give you so much hope in 1:53:04.600 --> 1:53:08.000 the present that things could be different. Thank you so much, Molly. 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:11.920 This has been such an interesting and provocative conversation. 1:53:12.840 --> 1:53:14.240 And thank you so much for learning. 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:17.000 Yiddish and for tessetting all those books so that we 1:53:17.040 --> 1:53:17.880 can read your book. 1:53:17.920 --> 1:53:19.439 And we don't have to do all of that. 1:53:19.720 --> 1:53:21.320 Exactly, so you don't eat it out, have to suffer 1:53:21.360 --> 1:53:24.280 through the world's dullist socialist pro stylings. 1:53:24.479 --> 1:53:27.280 Yeah, no, You've done it for us. And I'm so 1:53:27.400 --> 1:53:29.479 excited for the book. I'll put it in the show notes. 1:53:29.640 --> 1:53:31.519 Everybody should read it. Thank you so much, Molly. 1:53:31.880 --> 1:53:45.120 Thank you so much, Danna. 1:53:46.160 --> 1:53:49.400 For decades, people in northern Nigeria have been suffering the 1:53:49.479 --> 1:53:53.360 violence of Jihadis. Groups in the region, more recently fall 1:53:53.400 --> 1:53:56.280 in the lobby in of some questionable interest groups and figures. 1:53:56.320 --> 1:53:59.719 In the United States, President Donald Trump has dropped American 1:53:59.760 --> 1:54:06.080 bos on Nigeria and soil. What exactly is happening in Nigeria? Hello, 1:54:06.080 --> 1:54:09.519 and welcomed it could happen here. I'm Andre's age Andrews 1:54:09.640 --> 1:54:12.439 on YouTube and I'm joined again by James. 1:54:12.560 --> 1:54:14.280 I'm glad we're doing this one. 1:54:14.520 --> 1:54:18.040 Yes to talk about what's been happening in Nigeria since 1:54:18.040 --> 1:54:21.880 it has captured Trump's attention and thus Western media interest 1:54:21.920 --> 1:54:25.960 as of late. So, first of all, what away is Nigeria? 1:54:26.479 --> 1:54:29.640 According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Nigeria's West African country with 1:54:29.680 --> 1:54:33.640 a diverse geography and an even more diverse population, hundreds 1:54:33.640 --> 1:54:37.040 of languages, one hundreds of ethnic groups, several religions in 1:54:37.080 --> 1:54:39.760 the most populous country in Africa and one of the 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.160 most populous countries in the world. Over two hundred and 1:54:43.200 --> 1:54:46.080 thirty nine million people called Nigeria home, and the Nigerian 1:54:46.160 --> 1:54:50.560 aspora is well over ten million strong. Like much of Africa, 1:54:50.680 --> 1:54:55.120 Nigeria is rich in natural resources, particularly petroleum natural gas, 1:54:55.440 --> 1:55:01.000 but heavily exploited by international and local capital, thus much 1:55:01.000 --> 1:55:04.080 of its population. By some estimates, over half of its 1:55:04.080 --> 1:55:09.640 population is considered multi dimensionally poor. Modern Nigeria will stitched 1:55:09.640 --> 1:55:13.320 together from the British protectorates of Northern and Southern Nigeria 1:55:13.760 --> 1:55:17.360 and agains its political independence only recently in nineteen sixty 1:55:17.960 --> 1:55:21.200 and became a Republic in nineteen sixty three. That North 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:24.640 South divide is particularly relevant because it continues to define 1:55:24.800 --> 1:55:30.040 Nigerian politics today. Nigeria split almost evenly between its Christian population, 1:55:30.200 --> 1:55:33.680 which dominates the South, and its Muslim population, which dominates 1:55:33.720 --> 1:55:38.160 the North. Alongside ethnic, linguistic and other political divisions, corruption 1:55:38.560 --> 1:55:40.960 and all the other baggage of a typical Neo colony 1:55:41.160 --> 1:55:44.440 has made Nigerian politics quite the powder keg of some time. 1:55:45.240 --> 1:55:47.920 They have been tragic and deadly episodes of political and 1:55:47.960 --> 1:55:52.520 religious violence throughout Nigeria's history, going in both directions, including 1:55:52.560 --> 1:55:55.160 the nineteen eighty seven crisis in Kaduna State and the 1:55:55.160 --> 1:55:58.960 early two thousands. Add several notorious riots and massacres as well, 1:55:59.240 --> 1:56:03.000 including the Yellow Massacre and the Josh Riots, linking the 1:56:03.040 --> 1:56:06.520 show notes for the details on those. Since those nine, however, 1:56:06.960 --> 1:56:11.200 militant Islamist group Bokoharam has engaged in a protracted insudency 1:56:11.280 --> 1:56:15.400 against Nigerian government and terrorized the Christian and Muslim population 1:56:15.800 --> 1:56:19.640 through bombings, assassinations, and abductions with the overall intent of 1:56:19.720 --> 1:56:23.680 establishing an Islamic breakaway state in North Nigeria. For the 1:56:23.720 --> 1:56:25.720 past few months, there has been a considered effort to 1:56:25.760 --> 1:56:30.520 paint a narrative of Christian genocide in Nigeria, a narrative 1:56:30.600 --> 1:56:32.640 that has long been co signed by the likes of 1:56:32.760 --> 1:56:36.440 Donald Trump. So back in twenty eighteen, Trump had actually 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:39.840 called out the killing of Christians in Nigeria, yet stopped 1:56:39.840 --> 1:56:43.040 short of calling into genocide. But according to an article 1:56:43.080 --> 1:56:47.080 by Ayula Babolola on the myth of Christian Genocide, it 1:56:47.160 --> 1:56:50.320 was not long after Nigerian and Vice President Kashim Shatima's 1:56:50.360 --> 1:56:53.600 September twenty twenty five remarks at the eightieth Session of 1:56:53.640 --> 1:56:57.240 the UN General Assembly, where he reasserted Nigeria's long standing 1:56:57.280 --> 1:57:01.240 saw directy with Palestine, that the Western, largely pro Israel 1:57:01.320 --> 1:57:05.800 far right began the campaign of claiming Christian genocide in Nigeria. 1:57:06.640 --> 1:57:09.440 In his address, Shatima did mention the problem with Angeria 1:57:09.480 --> 1:57:12.400 has happened with extremism, but these commentators are run with 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:16.120 a much more specific narrative. The same people who deny 1:57:16.240 --> 1:57:19.760 the Pastdinian genocide and prop up the mythical white genocide 1:57:19.760 --> 1:57:22.640 in South Africa have gone on to push this Christian 1:57:22.680 --> 1:57:26.880 genocide story. Bill Meyer, the guy who still can't prove 1:57:26.920 --> 1:57:29.480 the claims he made about October seventh, has gone on 1:57:29.520 --> 1:57:32.920 to tell people that what's happening in Nigeria is, to paraphrase, 1:57:33.560 --> 1:57:36.200 so much more of a genocide than what's happening in 1:57:36.280 --> 1:57:41.600 Khaza Endot. In late October and early November twenty five, 1:57:42.000 --> 1:57:46.400 Trump tweeted that Christianity is facing an existential threat in Nigeria, 1:57:47.040 --> 1:57:51.000 name Nigeria as a country of particular concern and announced 1:57:51.000 --> 1:57:53.840 to the United States was ready, willing and able to 1:57:53.920 --> 1:57:57.800 save our great Christian population around the world. And for 1:57:57.840 --> 1:58:00.400 some reason, Nicki Minaj is out there back in Trump's 1:58:00.480 --> 1:58:04.320 Christian persecution narrative as well. Perfect why are you in it? 1:58:06.400 --> 1:58:08.160 Yeah, just to be clear for Anyone's not the way. 1:58:08.240 --> 1:58:11.320 Nicki Minij not a person from Nigeria or with any 1:58:11.320 --> 1:58:13.920 particular insight into the situation there. 1:58:14.160 --> 1:58:15.880 She's also not Trinardi and I just want to clear 1:58:15.920 --> 1:58:20.320 that up. Yes, her certificate is from the Republic a 1:58:20.360 --> 1:58:24.240 Trinianto vehicle, but we do not claim her since her 1:58:24.280 --> 1:58:27.960 statements about how COVID and the vaccine and her cousin's 1:58:28.040 --> 1:58:31.840 balls like, from that moment onward, people who have been 1:58:32.000 --> 1:58:34.760 like distancing themselves from her enterdiddo. 1:58:34.320 --> 1:58:36.120 Anyway, I can see why. 1:58:36.960 --> 1:58:40.040 So in November twenty five, according to a BBC report, 1:58:40.200 --> 1:58:43.120 Trump also said that he would send troops into Nigeria 1:58:43.320 --> 1:58:46.160 guns are blazing if its government continues to allow the 1:58:46.240 --> 1:58:49.720 killing of Christians. Then in December twenty twenty five, according 1:58:49.760 --> 1:58:53.480 to another BBC report, the US has launched strikes on 1:58:53.560 --> 1:58:57.240 the twenty fifth of December as a Christmas present against 1:58:57.280 --> 1:59:00.880 militans in the Islamic State Group in northwestern Nigeria. 1:59:01.520 --> 1:59:02.480 What should be noted. 1:59:02.240 --> 1:59:05.560 Though, is they did not strike Bokoharam, which is based 1:59:05.560 --> 1:59:07.080 in northeast Nigeria. 1:59:07.840 --> 1:59:10.040 Yeah, it was really interesting to look at the bill 1:59:10.120 --> 1:59:11.880 that I wrote about this bit for my newsletter. But 1:59:12.000 --> 1:59:16.640 the US was flying intelligence gathering flights essentially for some 1:59:16.760 --> 1:59:19.800 time of a Nigeria right. Clearly like they must have 1:59:19.840 --> 1:59:22.040 been some kind of agreement with the Nigerian government to 1:59:22.120 --> 1:59:26.600 allow this right, but they were clearly trying to identify 1:59:27.480 --> 1:59:30.680 like where it's what and Baccaharam were and like you 1:59:30.720 --> 1:59:34.440 could see them winding up to this strike. I guess 1:59:34.440 --> 1:59:36.120 they waited to Christmas day to go for it. 1:59:36.520 --> 1:59:41.360 Yeah, yeah, so there was the Christmas present of the 1:59:41.440 --> 1:59:44.280 US bodman there. Yeah, and this happened less than a 1:59:44.280 --> 1:59:47.080 week by the way, after the Alliance of Sahel States 1:59:47.160 --> 1:59:51.120 that'd being Bikina, Faso, Niza and Mali commissioned a joint 1:59:51.240 --> 1:59:55.640 military force of five thousand comment terrorists. And that move 1:59:55.760 --> 1:59:58.360 was following the Economic Community of West African States or 1:59:58.480 --> 2:00:01.120 equa's plan to launch a two hundred and six one 2:00:01.200 --> 2:00:04.160 thousand member conter terrorism for US. So there's a lot 2:00:04.160 --> 2:00:06.840 of military action happened in West Africa right now, coming 2:00:06.880 --> 2:00:10.360 from the inside and the outside. In a January twenty 2:00:10.400 --> 2:00:13.840 twenty sixth report, Trump claimed quote, I'd love to make 2:00:13.920 --> 2:00:16.080 it a one time strike, but if they continue to 2:00:16.160 --> 2:00:19.520 kill Christians, it will be a many times strike end Coote. 2:00:20.040 --> 2:00:22.680 Trump has also accused the Nigerian government, as I said, 2:00:22.840 --> 2:00:26.880 of repeatedly failing to protect Christians. So Trump is a 2:00:26.960 --> 2:00:29.840 known liar to take everything he says with a grain 2:00:29.880 --> 2:00:33.120 of salt, as is the rest of his administration generally 2:00:33.160 --> 2:00:47.040 really capturist politicians and pundits. So let me break down 2:00:47.160 --> 2:00:51.800 what is actually happening in Nigeria. The Nigerian government has 2:00:51.840 --> 2:00:54.480 said that Muslims, Christians, and those of no faith alike 2:00:54.640 --> 2:00:58.560 are targeted. According to a Yula Aabalula. The government of 2:00:58.640 --> 2:01:02.400 Nigeria is indeed feeling to adequately address the devastation being 2:01:02.480 --> 2:01:06.360 rought against communities in Nigeria. But critically, it is not 2:01:06.960 --> 2:01:10.560 religious nature, or rather religion is only a part of 2:01:10.600 --> 2:01:12.760 the picture. It can't be used to explain the whole 2:01:12.800 --> 2:01:15.600 story on the ground. So there are several groups where 2:01:15.600 --> 2:01:18.320 you can have In northern Nigeria, they have a few 2:01:18.400 --> 2:01:22.200 different Islamic state affiliated groups, yeah, fokah Aram which is 2:01:22.240 --> 2:01:24.320 the main one. And you also have the conflict between 2:01:24.320 --> 2:01:27.640 the Fulani hoods men who are mostly Muslim and various 2:01:27.640 --> 2:01:31.040 farming groups who may be Christian or Muslim. So where 2:01:31.040 --> 2:01:33.640 the hoodsmen are considered, that kind of conflict has actually 2:01:33.640 --> 2:01:36.120 been taking place between the hooders and the settled people 2:01:36.280 --> 2:01:40.240 for literal centuries. The only difference is that now you 2:01:40.360 --> 2:01:44.680 have them carrying ak forty sevens in served as sticks 2:01:44.680 --> 2:01:48.760 and machetes. Yea, how they got those Ak forty sevens 2:01:48.760 --> 2:01:51.400 is really thanks to the history of the West's intervention 2:01:51.680 --> 2:01:55.360 in Africa, but we'll get to that in a moment. Critically, though, 2:01:55.400 --> 2:01:57.840 if you step outside as the religious freemen, you would 2:01:57.840 --> 2:02:02.960 see a criminal, economic and political motivation behind these actions. 2:02:03.720 --> 2:02:06.839 They may be going after land, or want to extract ransom, 2:02:07.200 --> 2:02:11.160 or pursue a particular political goal. The Muslims in North 2:02:11.240 --> 2:02:15.320 Nigeria are not safe just because they're Muslim. Bokoharam's victims 2:02:15.400 --> 2:02:19.560 are mostly Muslim because Bokharam's target is anyone who stands 2:02:19.560 --> 2:02:23.360 between them and their political aims. Everyone who isn't Pokoharam 2:02:23.560 --> 2:02:26.800 or aligned with Islamic state West African Province is considered 2:02:26.840 --> 2:02:30.480 an enemy. One article on Trump's beef with Nigeria by 2:02:30.760 --> 2:02:34.879 Yusuf Bangura talks about six types of violence in the country. 2:02:35.280 --> 2:02:38.640 We have the Bokharam Islamist inspired violence in the Northeast, 2:02:38.880 --> 2:02:41.760 whose main victims are Muslims who reject the group's is 2:02:41.760 --> 2:02:45.200 Limist ideology. They have the banditary in the Northwest, which 2:02:45.240 --> 2:02:48.280 affects Muslims and Christians in equal measure. You have the 2:02:48.400 --> 2:02:51.400 herd of farmer conflict in the Middle Belt, which affects 2:02:51.480 --> 2:02:55.040 Christians and Muslims, or the reports indicated Christians are the 2:02:55.040 --> 2:02:58.080 main victims of that violence. You have the herd of 2:02:58.120 --> 2:03:01.040 farmer violence in the Northwest, which is distinct from the 2:03:01.040 --> 2:03:03.720 hood of farmer violence in the Middle Belt. So the 2:03:03.720 --> 2:03:06.720 one in the northwest has full Lani hooders reportedly pitched 2:03:06.720 --> 2:03:10.920 against Hauser farmers, and both groups are Muslim. You have 2:03:10.960 --> 2:03:14.000 the violence inflicted by the indigenous people of Biafra and 2:03:14.200 --> 2:03:17.320 bandits in the east against their own people, Ebos, who 2:03:17.360 --> 2:03:21.720 are Christian. And you also have general panditry in large 2:03:21.760 --> 2:03:24.600 parts of the country which has rendered traveling by roads 2:03:24.600 --> 2:03:27.760 between cities very risky. So there's been a lot of 2:03:27.760 --> 2:03:30.760 Western attention drawing suggest some of the victims the churches, 2:03:30.800 --> 2:03:34.000 the church leaders, and the Christian communities, even though mosques 2:03:34.240 --> 2:03:38.640 and imams and Muslim communities and animists have also been devastated, 2:03:39.240 --> 2:03:42.400 and has turned a multifaceted violence into a narrative of 2:03:42.560 --> 2:03:47.120 targeted anti Christian violence, seemingly at least from the Trump 2:03:47.160 --> 2:03:50.520 and Zionist camp, for the purpose of demonizing Muslims, and 2:03:50.600 --> 2:03:54.400 I guess, in some convoluted way weakening global support for 2:03:54.440 --> 2:03:58.360 Palestinians because Parthians are also Muslims, so they're all the 2:03:58.400 --> 2:04:03.280 same man. That's just speculation in my cart. Even Christian 2:04:03.320 --> 2:04:05.800 leaders in Nigeria have been calling out this framement, though 2:04:06.280 --> 2:04:11.400 Archbishop Matthew man OsO Ndagoso was quoted extensively in an 2:04:11.480 --> 2:04:13.680 article for Aid to the Chase and Need, which is 2:04:13.720 --> 2:04:17.880 an international Catholic organization. Rather than pinning the blame on Islam, 2:04:17.960 --> 2:04:21.520 he said, in the Northwest, the farmers are mostly Muslims 2:04:21.520 --> 2:04:24.160 and they also have conflicts with the Fulani. As moved 2:04:24.160 --> 2:04:26.720 the Middle Belt. It is enhancing most by Christians, so 2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:29.600 there will most likely be a Christian farm. Religion and 2:04:29.640 --> 2:04:32.840 ethnicity have very sensitive problems in Nigeria. They're always used 2:04:32.880 --> 2:04:35.920 for convenience, but primarily this conflict is not religious. I 2:04:35.920 --> 2:04:38.320 am absolutely sure. If you apply for a job and 2:04:38.320 --> 2:04:39.920 you don't get it, you might say you were rejected 2:04:39.960 --> 2:04:42.400 because you are a Christian, and the same for Muslims. 2:04:42.880 --> 2:04:46.760 Opportunists such as politicians use these factors to their own advantage. 2:04:46.920 --> 2:04:48.800 But if you go to the route, you discover is 2:04:48.920 --> 2:04:50.400 little or nothing to his religion. 2:04:50.800 --> 2:04:54.680 End quote Sex and analysis from the Church. I'm surprised 2:04:54.800 --> 2:04:56.640 going from that source that I'm glad it, did you know? 2:04:57.160 --> 2:05:02.000 Yeah, Catholic change of all places. So he even claims 2:05:02.000 --> 2:05:04.960 that the kidnappings of priests have little to do with religion. 2:05:05.160 --> 2:05:07.880 And I'll quote him again. In the last three years, 2:05:08.040 --> 2:05:10.720 seven of my priests have been kidnapped, two have been killed, 2:05:10.720 --> 2:05:12.720 and one has been in captivity for three years and 2:05:12.760 --> 2:05:17.360 two months. Four released in fifty of my parishes. Priests 2:05:17.400 --> 2:05:20.240 cannot stay in directories because they are targets. They are 2:05:20.240 --> 2:05:23.200 seen as an easy source of money for a ranser. 2:05:23.760 --> 2:05:26.200 So he's emphasizing there that it's really about the money 2:05:26.440 --> 2:05:29.480 that the churches perceived to be able to provide to 2:05:29.600 --> 2:05:34.000 these canappers, more so than any religious targeting in particular. 2:05:34.760 --> 2:05:38.160 Of course, that is only one archbishop's perspective on the situation. 2:05:38.800 --> 2:05:41.680 I think Babelola makes an important point in his article 2:05:41.760 --> 2:05:44.959 on the myth that I would like to quote as well. Crucially, 2:05:45.120 --> 2:05:48.600 Christians at times become the chosen targets. In particular assaults 2:05:49.200 --> 2:05:52.840 churches have been attacked during worship, pre subducted an entire 2:05:52.880 --> 2:05:57.400 Christian villages raised in Plateau Venue and Southern Karduna. These 2:05:57.440 --> 2:06:00.160 episodes are not separate from the general crisis, but a 2:06:00.280 --> 2:06:03.200 rather moments when Christian identity is weaponized to mark a 2:06:03.200 --> 2:06:06.800 community for terror. In this sense, Christians bear both the 2:06:06.840 --> 2:06:09.840 general weight of insecurity shared by all Nigerians and the 2:06:09.880 --> 2:06:14.040 sharper trauma of faith based targeting in sydnem attacks, but 2:06:14.240 --> 2:06:17.080 Bablua doesn't forget that these groups terror as a severe 2:06:17.080 --> 2:06:20.040 impact on the Muslims as well. In fact, he makes 2:06:20.080 --> 2:06:23.600 an important comparison I wanted to highlight, which is that 2:06:24.160 --> 2:06:28.640 in areas ravaged by armed groups, the first victims tend 2:06:28.680 --> 2:06:31.120 to be those who have religious or ethnic groups in 2:06:31.160 --> 2:06:35.040 common with the militants, killed because they are seen as 2:06:35.440 --> 2:06:38.960 infidels or not noble enough or not committed enough to 2:06:39.040 --> 2:06:43.280 the ideals of that movement. If you look at the 2:06:43.440 --> 2:06:49.080 history of Zionism, it's released. For example, before they found 2:06:49.080 --> 2:06:51.920 in of the state of Israel, there were bombings of 2:06:51.960 --> 2:06:56.720 several Jewish heritage sites across the Middle East, and records 2:06:56.760 --> 2:06:59.840 have later showed that they were carried out by terroristic 2:07:00.240 --> 2:07:03.200 Jewish gangs who sort to instill a fair in Jewish 2:07:03.240 --> 2:07:06.240 communities across the region, to so discord between the Jewish 2:07:06.280 --> 2:07:09.760 communities and their neighbors for the purpose of forcing them 2:07:09.760 --> 2:07:13.560 to abandon these Middle Eastern states and relocate to Israel 2:07:13.600 --> 2:07:16.200 to further Israel's economic and geopolitical courts. 2:07:16.840 --> 2:07:18.240 Yeah, so it's not. 2:07:18.200 --> 2:07:21.360 Unheard of for a group to target its own core 2:07:21.360 --> 2:07:25.320 religionists for its geopolitical economic combusures. 2:07:26.000 --> 2:07:28.280 If we talk about specifically the Islamic state in Iraq 2:07:28.360 --> 2:07:31.560 and Syria. Right, isis as opposed to the Islamic State 2:07:31.640 --> 2:07:36.000 in West Africa, like get killed more Muslims than anyone else, Right, exactly, 2:07:36.200 --> 2:07:38.000 those were the bulk of the people it murdered. 2:07:38.320 --> 2:07:41.720 We could even look at a very old historical example, 2:07:42.600 --> 2:07:46.400 the Latin Crusade. You had all these Christians from Europe, 2:07:47.120 --> 2:07:51.880 Goyana Crusade, and because they didn't get paid, they decided 2:07:51.920 --> 2:07:56.200 to ransack their core religionists in Greece and you know, 2:07:56.280 --> 2:08:01.160 in the wider Byzantine Empire, and eventually, you know, deconstruct 2:08:01.160 --> 2:08:04.240 business the empire entirely and establish their own Latin Empire. 2:08:04.760 --> 2:08:05.640 Yeah. 2:08:05.840 --> 2:08:08.720 So I didn't want to gloss over the real challenges 2:08:08.800 --> 2:08:13.080 that Christians specifically are facing in North Nigeria. Though, since 2:08:13.160 --> 2:08:16.000 nineteen ninety nine, serial law has been introduced and enforced 2:08:16.040 --> 2:08:19.840 in twelve northern states, and according to the same archbishops 2:08:19.840 --> 2:08:23.080 that I quoted earlier, this has ensured that religious persecution 2:08:23.240 --> 2:08:26.400 in the North is systemic. He said, and I quote, 2:08:26.520 --> 2:08:29.400 I cannot build a church. Even if you buy a land, 2:08:29.440 --> 2:08:31.800 you can't get a permission of occupancy, and therefore you 2:08:31.840 --> 2:08:34.000 cannot build In many of these states, they don't allow 2:08:34.080 --> 2:08:37.000 the teaching of Christianity get the government's employees and pays 2:08:37.040 --> 2:08:39.880 emams to teach in schools every year. They have money 2:08:39.920 --> 2:08:41.800 to build mosques in the budget, but they will not 2:08:41.880 --> 2:08:44.040 let you build churches. If m I state, there's a 2:08:44.120 --> 2:08:47.000 university and across the street there are five mosques, no church. 2:08:47.320 --> 2:08:49.440 Who wanted to build one, they didn't allow it. If 2:08:49.480 --> 2:08:51.120 you build the church with a permission and the government 2:08:51.160 --> 2:08:52.960 can tear it down. And this is what we are 2:08:52.960 --> 2:08:54.920 going through. It is serious. We want our government to 2:08:54.920 --> 2:08:58.680 be held accountable for people to be treated equally end quote. 2:08:58.960 --> 2:09:02.400 So again, religious is still part of the picture, but 2:09:02.520 --> 2:09:06.920 not in the way that the Western governments are painted. What's 2:09:06.960 --> 2:09:09.840 happening is these issues of being amplified by opportunists and 2:09:09.960 --> 2:09:13.800 far right lobbyists. And as I established earlier, we should 2:09:13.800 --> 2:09:16.840 be addressed in where these terror groups have even come from, 2:09:17.120 --> 2:09:20.240 because the West hands are not clean in that picture either. 2:09:20.720 --> 2:09:23.400 Groups like al Qaeda and the Islamic State have known 2:09:23.480 --> 2:09:26.960 connections in their history to Western Midland. An American policy 2:09:26.960 --> 2:09:30.040 in Africa has at least indirectly on these groups. Thanks 2:09:30.040 --> 2:09:32.640 to the fall of Gadaffi in Libya and the American 2:09:32.680 --> 2:09:35.760 Ladie stabilization of other Muslim countries in Southwest Asia and 2:09:35.840 --> 2:09:39.320 North Africa. The death squads are as Akys that is 2:09:39.360 --> 2:09:43.400 spersed across the Sahel region, victimizing Africans of World faith 2:09:43.960 --> 2:09:46.920 or at least some of their firepower to that Western 2:09:46.920 --> 2:09:50.080 intervenure to the flow of arms coming out of Libya. 2:09:50.600 --> 2:09:52.480 The West has repeatedly shown that it's not kay of 2:09:52.520 --> 2:10:06.560 people's lives. So what is the real beef that Trump 2:10:06.640 --> 2:10:10.920 and co? Have with Nigeria? While according to Bangoura's article, 2:10:11.520 --> 2:10:14.240 Trump is not feeling the fact that the US is 2:10:14.320 --> 2:10:18.320 dependent on China for what it is and Nigeria is very 2:10:18.320 --> 2:10:21.440 resource rich when it comes to earths like lithium, cobalt, 2:10:21.520 --> 2:10:24.760 nickel and all that other stuff. Chinese companies have invested 2:10:24.840 --> 2:10:27.760 more than one point three billion US dollars in Nigeria's 2:10:27.800 --> 2:10:31.680 lithium processing industry, and Russia has growing leverage in the 2:10:31.720 --> 2:10:35.720 region thanks to their involvement with Nizia, Bikina, Faso and Mali. 2:10:36.960 --> 2:10:39.600 So in an effort to wean America or of China, 2:10:40.240 --> 2:10:43.520 Tran has been trying to after the deal, the situation 2:10:44.320 --> 2:10:46.760 so he signed agreements in Southeast Asia to increase the 2:10:46.760 --> 2:10:50.160 production and processing of rats and exports the US. He 2:10:50.240 --> 2:10:53.240 stepped into a broker peace deals code and code between 2:10:53.320 --> 2:10:56.600 the DRC and Rwanda's the US can invest more in 2:10:56.640 --> 2:11:01.320 the DRC's minerals. And what Trump radio like in Nigeria's 2:11:01.360 --> 2:11:05.560 case is that Nigeria's President Tunubu is not playing ball 2:11:05.680 --> 2:11:08.920 with him, at least in this case in Trump's eyes, 2:11:08.960 --> 2:11:12.000 to will you not do enough to reverse Naja's military 2:11:12.040 --> 2:11:15.000 coup and to wo do not let the US relocate 2:11:15.040 --> 2:11:19.120 the Nigerian military base to Nigeria. Tunu Wu also didn't 2:11:19.200 --> 2:11:24.760 let Trump relocate to poorties to Nigeria even when Ghana, Rwanda, Esportini, 2:11:24.800 --> 2:11:30.280 Seladan and Uganda all accepted them. Furthermore, as established before, 2:11:30.640 --> 2:11:35.720 Nigeria continues to condemn Israel's genocide in Gaza now when 2:11:35.720 --> 2:11:38.520 it wants to, the US can intervene in other countries 2:11:38.520 --> 2:11:42.080 without the talk about humanitarian itself. Because look at Guatemala 2:11:42.160 --> 2:11:44.920 nineteen fifty four when they tried to implement some land 2:11:45.040 --> 2:11:49.040 reforms and that went against the United Food companies interests, 2:11:49.160 --> 2:11:52.120 So the US invaded, and you also had the US 2:11:52.440 --> 2:11:56.000 willing to simply support whatever opposition exists in the country, 2:11:56.640 --> 2:11:59.720 like in the Congo in nineteen sixty one against Patricial Mumba, 2:12:00.200 --> 2:12:03.560 in Chile in nineteen seventy three against savadoy Inde, and 2:12:03.600 --> 2:12:07.760 in Iran in nineteen fifty three against Muhammad Mosdeg So 2:12:07.800 --> 2:12:11.040 they will use humanitarian talk. Whether they use that talk 2:12:11.160 --> 2:12:13.680 or not, the results tend to be disastrous for the 2:12:13.720 --> 2:12:20.400 people in those countries. US intervention sucks pretty much everywhere Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, 2:12:20.480 --> 2:12:24.440 Somalia and more. Besides, so we can count on whatever 2:12:24.440 --> 2:12:29.600 Trump attempts in Nigeria being an abject failure. More recently, 2:12:30.000 --> 2:12:32.400 the United States announced it will be sending a military 2:12:32.400 --> 2:12:35.960 team to Nigeria after a string of recent attacks. That'd 2:12:35.960 --> 2:12:40.800 be in two hundred troops. So we'll see what happens next. 2:12:41.280 --> 2:12:44.440 But it's clear that US intervention is not the solution. 2:12:45.360 --> 2:12:49.720 Its intentions are definitely malicious. So what can the future 2:12:49.760 --> 2:12:52.880 be for the people of Nigeria? How can its people 2:12:53.000 --> 2:12:57.080 be free? Obviously, the battle against these reactionary forces rages on, 2:12:57.240 --> 2:13:01.440 but military solutions and militarization will not be In fact, 2:13:01.480 --> 2:13:03.200 it carries some serious risk in the region as a 2:13:03.200 --> 2:13:06.920 whole in terms of escalation. An article by Ayodele o' 2:13:07.040 --> 2:13:10.360 labi in Altera zero recognize that with Nigeria's entanglement with 2:13:10.400 --> 2:13:13.120 the US and the two hundred and sixty thousand strong 2:13:13.200 --> 2:13:16.800 Equa's force, the AES is going to feel threatened, you know, 2:13:16.800 --> 2:13:19.680 as it's trying to keep Western influence out of the region. 2:13:20.280 --> 2:13:20.680 So there's a. 2:13:20.720 --> 2:13:24.880 Danger of future EQUAS deployments overlapping with AS operations and 2:13:24.960 --> 2:13:28.440 potentially lead into clashes. And if there isn't the escalation 2:13:28.520 --> 2:13:31.440 of tensions between EQUAS and AS, we can end up 2:13:31.480 --> 2:13:34.960 seeing interstate wars that would devastate communities in the region 2:13:35.080 --> 2:13:38.680 and give the insurgents opportunities to expand. It could very 2:13:38.680 --> 2:13:41.400 well set up another proxy battleground for global powers and 2:13:41.520 --> 2:13:42.920 some kind of new Cold War. 2:13:43.480 --> 2:13:44.000 So they have to. 2:13:43.960 --> 2:13:49.200 Find some way of avoiding this clash and see if 2:13:49.200 --> 2:13:53.200 they can build a cooperative security framework despite their vastly 2:13:53.200 --> 2:13:54.480 different interests. 2:13:55.000 --> 2:13:58.040 Yeah, and to a degree, we already see like global 2:13:58.080 --> 2:14:02.040 powers right like Russia has been honing its most horrific 2:14:02.120 --> 2:14:05.880 war crimes in parts of West Africa for a long time, 2:14:06.000 --> 2:14:10.560 right with its like private military contractors exactly Ukraine has 2:14:10.600 --> 2:14:15.120 sent special forces to assist the people fighting against the 2:14:15.280 --> 2:14:21.000 Russian private military contractors, like we've seen Nigeria's own government 2:14:21.200 --> 2:14:24.920 kill its own civilians and its counter terrorism operation like 2:14:26.120 --> 2:14:29.320 all of this just makes life less livable for people 2:14:29.360 --> 2:14:32.120 who are already like on the thick end of climate 2:14:32.200 --> 2:14:34.840 change for one thing, and have suffered under centuries to 2:14:34.880 --> 2:14:35.920 colonialism for another. 2:14:36.360 --> 2:14:39.960 So that's a geopolitic analysis, and I suppose been the 2:14:40.040 --> 2:14:42.200 long term. I think there's much to be done to 2:14:42.280 --> 2:14:47.000 rebuild the revolutionary front within Nigeria, led by Nigerians themselves, 2:14:47.480 --> 2:14:49.640 to chart another path for the future of the country. 2:14:49.680 --> 2:14:52.440 Are we from the status of Vassalich? 2:14:53.000 --> 2:14:53.440 Yeah? 2:14:53.480 --> 2:14:56.320 You know, Left and Left of Jason Wovemans were very 2:14:56.360 --> 2:14:59.440 diminished in relevance and credibility after the end of military 2:14:59.560 --> 2:15:03.480 rule in Ingerior in nineteen ninety nine due to several 2:15:03.560 --> 2:15:06.160 reasons that we could get into at another time. But 2:15:06.200 --> 2:15:08.640 by the time we got to the Ensar's movement in 2:15:08.840 --> 2:15:12.600 twenty twenty, Left forces were present but didn't have the 2:15:12.680 --> 2:15:16.160 level of organization and strategy necessary to rise the occasion. 2:15:16.680 --> 2:15:19.320 But according to an article in Progressive International by A. 2:15:19.360 --> 2:15:24.720 Euler Babbalola, there's potential for a resurgence. The End Bad 2:15:24.760 --> 2:15:28.840 Governance movement had demonstrations in August October twenty twenty four 2:15:29.200 --> 2:15:31.760 which saw leftist groups like Take It Back and the 2:15:31.920 --> 2:15:35.120 Socialist Workers League play a central role in organizing and 2:15:35.160 --> 2:15:40.640 mobilizing protests. Unlike earlier moments, these groups articulated clearer demands, 2:15:41.000 --> 2:15:46.000 coordinated protest strategies, had attempted to provide ideological direction. This 2:15:46.080 --> 2:15:48.480 is in spite of facing crackdowns and arrests of key 2:15:48.480 --> 2:15:52.560 figures and left and progressives faces. Of course, not everyone 2:15:52.600 --> 2:15:56.160 mobilizing against the Nigeria's struggle in economic and political conditions 2:15:56.200 --> 2:16:00.320 are committed to left or left adjacent ideas. Still, the 2:16:00.400 --> 2:16:05.440 question remains unresolved. Can this renewed street level influence be 2:16:05.520 --> 2:16:10.200 transformed into lasting organizational power or will repeat the cycle 2:16:10.280 --> 2:16:14.920 of hobialization followed by fragmentation that has littered movements before it. 2:16:15.640 --> 2:16:18.400 This violence taking place in Nigeria is bound up with 2:16:18.400 --> 2:16:21.680 the violence taking place across the world. Is bound up 2:16:21.720 --> 2:16:25.320 in imperialist interests and capless interest, in status interests, and 2:16:25.400 --> 2:16:30.160 in petty tyrant's interests, from Nigeria to Congo to Sedan 2:16:30.240 --> 2:16:33.640 to Palestine, violence and suppression tactics wee lied in one 2:16:33.680 --> 2:16:37.680 place often brought to another. Biblelula says in his article 2:16:37.720 --> 2:16:41.600 that could a genuine pursuit of justice must confront proximate 2:16:41.600 --> 2:16:44.879 perpetrators as well as the transnational systems of power that 2:16:44.959 --> 2:16:47.600 sustain them. What we must not allow is for the 2:16:47.640 --> 2:16:50.920 global perpetrators of criminality and terror to tell the world 2:16:51.000 --> 2:16:54.800 where to focus its attention end code. In other words, 2:16:55.120 --> 2:16:57.440 to all that the perpetrators of these violences tell you 2:16:57.480 --> 2:17:01.480 where to focus. We must look every where, look holistically 2:17:01.600 --> 2:17:04.640 at what's happening, and put the power and soliarity in 2:17:04.720 --> 2:17:08.280 the hands of the people affected to resist that violence. 2:17:09.320 --> 2:17:12.119 That's all I happened to as usual, all power, it's 2:17:12.160 --> 2:17:13.680 old people peace. 2:17:28.280 --> 2:17:31.560 This is it could happen here. In Executive Disorder, our 2:17:31.640 --> 2:17:34.080 weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the 2:17:34.080 --> 2:17:36.560 crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison 2:17:36.640 --> 2:17:39.400 Davis to name, joined by James Stout, Mia Wong, and 2:17:39.560 --> 2:17:42.800 Robert Evans. This episode, we are covering the week of 2:17:42.959 --> 2:17:47.800 April first to April eighth. The DHS shutdown has surpassed 2:17:47.800 --> 2:17:51.920 fifty days. Last week, House Republicans tentatively agreed to the 2:17:52.040 --> 2:17:56.039 Senate deal to fund DHS without ICE and CBP, though 2:17:56.040 --> 2:17:58.840 this agreement is stalled while Congress is out of session 2:17:59.200 --> 2:18:04.120 till April fourteenth. Fox News has partnered with Calshi to 2:18:04.200 --> 2:18:09.520 incorporate its political betting data into news coverage. Fox joints CNNC, NBC, 2:18:09.800 --> 2:18:12.880 and the AP in entering into deals with the so 2:18:12.959 --> 2:18:18.039 called prediction market Calshi. Calshe announced quote, prediction markets at 2:18:18.040 --> 2:18:22.760 accountability by rewarding accuracy. That's why the three leading networks 2:18:22.760 --> 2:18:26.879 have chosen Calshi. No spin, no partisan lens, just incentives 2:18:26.920 --> 2:18:28.440 to be right unquote. 2:18:28.520 --> 2:18:29.359 It's just gambling. 2:18:30.040 --> 2:18:32.840 It's so cool that the whole world, all media is now. 2:18:32.760 --> 2:18:37.360 Just ESPN incentives to be right again, like people are. 2:18:37.560 --> 2:18:40.600 There's like one of the sub markets within Calshi is 2:18:40.640 --> 2:18:43.680 people like bringing in lawyers to make threats over like 2:18:43.840 --> 2:18:47.800 tiny differences in grammar that invalidate them either losing money 2:18:47.840 --> 2:18:50.119 or mean that they should have won the art like 2:18:50.120 --> 2:18:52.800 like none of this is about what actually happened. It's 2:18:52.920 --> 2:18:55.080 it's becoming as much about what you can game or 2:18:55.120 --> 2:18:57.680 like threaten the news into not reporting. As we talked 2:18:57.680 --> 2:19:00.000 about the week before last with that case in Israel 2:19:00.040 --> 2:19:01.840 and insider trading and insider trading. 2:19:01.959 --> 2:19:05.440 Yeah, no, it's it's just turning politics into like a 2:19:05.480 --> 2:19:06.279 corrupt casino. 2:19:06.360 --> 2:19:08.119 Yeah, it's just mob sports betting. 2:19:08.280 --> 2:19:10.440 It's worse than sports betting because sports betting is actually 2:19:10.520 --> 2:19:13.280 based on like real odds. Right, These odds are completely 2:19:13.320 --> 2:19:16.039 created by users with their money. Like it's it's it's 2:19:16.080 --> 2:19:19.280 completely manufactured. There's no actual basis for a lot of 2:19:19.320 --> 2:19:22.119 these bets, right, Like like the betting on the papal conclave. 2:19:22.280 --> 2:19:25.680 There's no basis for an American pope getting elected, right, 2:19:25.720 --> 2:19:29.320 there's no actual odds that were like mathematically certain. 2:19:29.640 --> 2:19:33.360 It's just created through through money. Well, to be fair, 2:19:33.440 --> 2:19:35.080 the sports odds are also just kind of made up. 2:19:35.120 --> 2:19:39.120 Yeah guys too, but like yeah, you no, real's just 2:19:39.160 --> 2:19:40.080 a tidy fit. 2:19:40.600 --> 2:19:44.640 Vibes based like it's people looking at horses. It's a 2:19:44.640 --> 2:19:49.360 lot of what's happening in sports betting, yes, making approving. Yeah, 2:19:49.400 --> 2:19:52.160 I think I saw that something close to a billion 2:19:52.280 --> 2:19:58.440 dollars was bet on oil prices as we approach Trump's deadline. 2:19:57.920 --> 2:20:02.039 We already had that just play the oil futures market too. 2:20:01.920 --> 2:20:05.720 Complicands for people. I guess God, damn it, No, it's 2:20:05.760 --> 2:20:09.480 really bad. According to a March poll from the Institute 2:20:09.480 --> 2:20:13.080 for a Middle East Understanding Policy Project sampling almost six 2:20:13.200 --> 2:20:19.720 hundred Texas Democratic primary voters, seventy six percent say Israel's 2:20:19.720 --> 2:20:22.120 committing Jena, Siden and Gaza, and eighty percent support ending 2:20:22.200 --> 2:20:26.400 weapons funding to Israel. Forty four percent of Tallarika voters 2:20:26.440 --> 2:20:28.680 said his criticism of Israel was important to them and 2:20:28.760 --> 2:20:31.880 swayed their vote over one in five voters. Twenty two 2:20:31.920 --> 2:20:35.480 percent said reducing support for Israel was one of their 2:20:35.560 --> 2:20:40.200 top three factors impacting their vote, while only two percent 2:20:40.280 --> 2:20:44.359 said the same about increasing or maintaining support for Israel, 2:20:44.640 --> 2:20:47.160 and eighty eight percent of voters said they agreed with 2:20:47.200 --> 2:20:50.080 the statement to Tallarico made during a primary debate about 2:20:50.120 --> 2:20:55.880 cutting off weapons to Israel. On Sunday night, thirteen gunshots 2:20:55.879 --> 2:20:59.600 were fired into the front door of Indianapolis City County 2:20:59.600 --> 2:21:02.959 council Ron Gibson, who just voted to approve a half 2:21:02.959 --> 2:21:06.120 a billion dollar data center. A note was left under 2:21:06.120 --> 2:21:10.720 the doormat that read no data centers quote unquote. Gibson 2:21:10.760 --> 2:21:13.480 and his son were home at the time of the shooting. 2:21:13.920 --> 2:21:17.400 Yeah, these data centers are really staggeringly unpopular. There's been 2:21:17.400 --> 2:21:20.120 a bunch of reporting on even the ones that are 2:21:20.160 --> 2:21:23.720 attempted to be built, something like fifty percent of them 2:21:24.000 --> 2:21:26.840 are just not able to do it because of massive 2:21:26.920 --> 2:21:28.800 public local backlash. 2:21:28.320 --> 2:21:31.480 Because it makes life worse around them. Nakey power bells 2:21:31.520 --> 2:21:32.360 go up there loud. 2:21:32.879 --> 2:21:34.920 Yeah, it's like it's like old school. It's like old 2:21:34.920 --> 2:21:38.080 school environmental nimbiism, sort of like I don't want these 2:21:38.080 --> 2:21:40.600 assholes in my small town stuff. There's just like the 2:21:40.640 --> 2:21:43.959 Antai sentiment in general, They're hideously unpopular and this kind 2:21:43.959 --> 2:21:46.920 of stuff is just going to continue as these data 2:21:46.920 --> 2:21:49.119 centers continue to be built. 2:21:49.480 --> 2:21:50.440 Okay, time for me. 2:21:51.400 --> 2:21:51.480 So. 2:21:51.680 --> 2:21:54.480 Donald Trump has said that he will discuss the United 2:21:54.480 --> 2:21:58.680 States withdrawal from NATO for those who work in the 2:21:58.720 --> 2:22:01.200 New York Times as a North Atlanta Take Treaty Organization 2:22:01.760 --> 2:22:05.200 with Mark Rutter, who is the NATO Secretary General, during 2:22:05.240 --> 2:22:08.080 their meeting, which will happen today which is Wednesday, April eighth. 2:22:08.800 --> 2:22:13.359 If question Mark this happens, it would be utterly aparcal, 2:22:13.800 --> 2:22:15.560 Like it would be one of the two things they're 2:22:15.560 --> 2:22:17.720 going to point out as like the dawning of the New. 2:22:17.600 --> 2:22:19.760 Era of Yes, seismic shift. 2:22:19.879 --> 2:22:22.959 Yeah, like what geopolitics is, this is like the fundamental 2:22:22.959 --> 2:22:28.200 basis of this in this week, or like ceasing to exist. Yeah. 2:22:28.520 --> 2:22:32.840 Shelly Kittelsen has been released by Katipos Bula after they 2:22:32.920 --> 2:22:36.240 made her read a video confession in which she confessed 2:22:36.240 --> 2:22:41.040 and to be very clear, this is very clearly extracted fashion. Yes, 2:22:41.920 --> 2:22:43.879 the thing in this is it is true. But in 2:22:43.920 --> 2:22:46.520 the video they made her confess to passing information to 2:22:46.720 --> 2:22:50.560 US consulate in Baghdad. In one point in the video 2:22:50.640 --> 2:22:52.840 she said she had been collecting information on leaders but 2:22:52.959 --> 2:22:57.800 forgotten their names, which is very credible and true. 2:22:57.640 --> 2:23:00.760 Most real con fashion, Yeah to Ludigris. 2:23:01.120 --> 2:23:05.160 Her release came after IRAQ released several catigue Has Boller members, 2:23:05.720 --> 2:23:08.400 so seems like a straight swap, which is what this 2:23:08.560 --> 2:23:10.360 was about in the first place. Right, it's not about 2:23:10.400 --> 2:23:12.959 her or her work per se, It's about her being 2:23:13.400 --> 2:23:18.280 a trading chip that they can create. Finally, Republican Brandon 2:23:18.480 --> 2:23:23.600 gil has sharply criticized the dignities like Dignity dald Act recently, 2:23:24.080 --> 2:23:26.640 and this has become like something of an online discourse 2:23:26.680 --> 2:23:29.480 topic on the right. I'm not exactly sure why it's 2:23:29.520 --> 2:23:30.680 happening now. 2:23:31.400 --> 2:23:31.680 Rep. 2:23:31.720 --> 2:23:35.080 Salazar from Florida has tried to introduce this act several 2:23:35.120 --> 2:23:37.080 times in the last few years. We've actually covered it 2:23:37.120 --> 2:23:40.240 when it was introduced in twenty twenty five on this show. 2:23:40.600 --> 2:23:45.040 It's a bipartisan act to reform the immigration system. 2:23:45.600 --> 2:23:46.640 That is bad. 2:23:47.120 --> 2:23:50.480 It creates what's called a dignity status, which is essentially 2:23:50.760 --> 2:23:54.240 like an underclass of people who there is no pathway citizenship, 2:23:54.280 --> 2:23:56.560 there is no pathway to voting, but it comes with 2:23:57.080 --> 2:23:59.280 the right to renew it and the right to residency right, 2:23:59.320 --> 2:24:01.960 so it creates it's like a sub citizen class. It's 2:24:02.040 --> 2:24:05.920 bad that it's not a progressive immigration reform. 2:24:05.720 --> 2:24:08.879 But is Brandon Gill criticizing it from the right? 2:24:09.320 --> 2:24:11.760 Gil is coming from another perspective, then, I am. They 2:24:11.760 --> 2:24:15.880 think it gives incentives for illegal immigration and it's an amnesty. 2:24:15.959 --> 2:24:17.520 Okay, Yeah, so he's criticizing from the right. 2:24:18.200 --> 2:24:21.840 It's interesting to see the split among Republicans on this, 2:24:21.920 --> 2:24:23.400 and that's why I wanted to bring it in. Right 2:24:23.400 --> 2:24:26.119 that we spoke last time about the Florida sheriffs breaking 2:24:26.200 --> 2:24:30.039 with Trump on mass deportations. There are a number of 2:24:30.120 --> 2:24:33.080 things which indicate that there is clearly a faction of 2:24:33.080 --> 2:24:37.840 the Republican Party, which is realized massive deportation of people 2:24:37.879 --> 2:24:40.840 who have not been accused or convicted of any crime. 2:24:41.480 --> 2:24:46.320 It's not a popular stance, especially when you keep killing people. 2:24:47.160 --> 2:24:51.200 On that note, actually, ice have shot somebody else that 2:24:51.360 --> 2:24:55.920 this broke relatively late on Tuesday night. They shot someone 2:24:55.959 --> 2:25:01.000 in Patterson, California. The person has been identified Carlos Iva 2:25:01.040 --> 2:25:05.959 Mendoso Hernandez. He's wanted in El Salvador for questioning a 2:25:05.959 --> 2:25:10.040 connection to a murder. It is another of those incidents 2:25:10.040 --> 2:25:13.480 in which they accused a person of weaponizing their vehicle, 2:25:13.600 --> 2:25:15.800 and there is a dash cam video which has been 2:25:15.840 --> 2:25:18.680 released which shows a person attempting to leave in a vehicle. 2:25:19.480 --> 2:25:20.840 It's a little hard to tell if the person who's 2:25:20.840 --> 2:25:23.280 attempting to weaponize their vehicle, but it doesn't look that 2:25:23.400 --> 2:25:26.240 way to me, so that person is trying to make 2:25:26.240 --> 2:25:29.440 an exit. We have seen a number of these right 2:25:29.640 --> 2:25:32.720 where federal immigration agents have shot people behind the wheel 2:25:32.760 --> 2:25:35.440 of their car. Yeah. I should add that his attorney 2:25:35.480 --> 2:25:37.720 claims that he is not wanted in connection with that 2:25:37.879 --> 2:25:40.560 murder and has provided a document from the government of 2:25:40.560 --> 2:25:43.959 El Salbador which seems to confirm that. So we have 2:25:44.040 --> 2:25:48.039 once again the DHS said versus what we seem to 2:25:48.040 --> 2:25:49.720 be seeing proved out by documents. 2:25:49.840 --> 2:25:54.080 Right before we get to Iran, which there's a lot 2:25:54.120 --> 2:25:56.920 to discuss, there is another news story a little bit 2:25:56.920 --> 2:26:01.279 closer to us that we think deserves some fair coverage. 2:26:01.760 --> 2:26:04.280 Statements made on a podcast last year by a top 2:26:04.280 --> 2:26:08.680 FEMA official resurfaced this last week. Greg Phillips, who is 2:26:08.720 --> 2:26:12.760 in charge of disaster response, claims that he once teleported 2:26:12.879 --> 2:26:16.680 to a waffle house in Rome, Georgia. Phillips also says 2:26:16.680 --> 2:26:19.120 he experienced a separate instant in which he teleported in 2:26:19.160 --> 2:26:22.640 front of a church. The fact that this was a 2:26:22.640 --> 2:26:25.039 waffle house does lend a story a bit of credibility. 2:26:25.720 --> 2:26:28.840 I have suspected for years there's some sort of paranormal 2:26:29.080 --> 2:26:32.760 field around waffle houses. Personally, I believe that when you 2:26:32.800 --> 2:26:35.600 walk into one, there is a small chance you could 2:26:35.600 --> 2:26:39.800 walk out of another in a separate location. The craft 2:26:39.840 --> 2:26:42.920 store Michaels has a similar has a similar energy to it. 2:26:43.040 --> 2:26:46.480 Look, anyone who's gone drunk to enough waffle houses knows 2:26:46.520 --> 2:26:47.160 that that's true. 2:26:47.520 --> 2:26:49.320 Right, So there is an aspect of the story which 2:26:49.400 --> 2:26:52.600 is very believable, but there's some details that Phillips has 2:26:52.600 --> 2:26:55.240 included that makes me a bit more skeptical of his 2:26:55.400 --> 2:27:00.280 characterization of this incident. Let's listen to his claim on 2:27:00.320 --> 2:27:01.440 this podcast right now. 2:27:02.000 --> 2:27:08.840 We had a teleport at incident, two of them, which 2:27:09.160 --> 2:27:14.280 transported me about forty miles from from where I was 2:27:14.520 --> 2:27:18.920 and near Albany, Georgia, to the ditch of a to 2:27:18.959 --> 2:27:22.280 the ditch of a of a church chained up at 2:27:22.280 --> 2:27:25.439 a waffle house like fifty miles away from where I. 2:27:25.200 --> 2:27:30.360 Was to that. So to defend these statements, Phillips has 2:27:30.400 --> 2:27:34.800 taken to truth Social to share biblical accounts of teleportation 2:27:35.080 --> 2:27:37.360 as supporting evidence of teleportation. 2:27:37.560 --> 2:27:37.840 Great. 2:27:39.520 --> 2:27:43.879 Employees at the three waffle houses in Rome, Georgia were 2:27:43.920 --> 2:27:45.640 interviewed by The New York Times, and they say they 2:27:45.680 --> 2:27:49.920 do not recall anyone being transported there by means of teleportation, 2:27:50.440 --> 2:27:54.680 nor did they recognize pictures of Greg Phillips. But in 2:27:54.720 --> 2:27:57.400 a follow up statement by Phillips on truth Social, he 2:27:57.400 --> 2:28:00.000 said he was going through cancer treatment at the time 2:28:00.120 --> 2:28:04.480 of this alleged teleportation incident. Quote, I was healed of 2:28:04.520 --> 2:28:07.440 cancer and it was a miracle. The podcast at the 2:28:07.440 --> 2:28:10.440 center of this controversy was part of chronicling that journey, 2:28:10.640 --> 2:28:14.000 and during that journey things happened that I can't explain. 2:28:14.600 --> 2:28:18.640 I was in the opening days of intensive treatment, heavily medicated, 2:28:19.000 --> 2:28:23.400 not thinking about future headlines. That context was nowhere in 2:28:23.440 --> 2:28:27.039 the reporting. Unquote. I think it is important here that 2:28:27.200 --> 2:28:30.400 he says he was heavily medicated during the time around. 2:28:31.320 --> 2:28:31.480 Yeah. 2:28:33.440 --> 2:28:37.520 I love how he uses cop voice like a teleportation incident. 2:28:38.280 --> 2:28:41.600 Yeah, but however, I'm gonna point out that Garrison the 2:28:41.640 --> 2:28:43.680 next thing you're about to read, he was not heavily 2:28:43.720 --> 2:28:45.720 medicated when he said this, So. 2:28:47.480 --> 2:28:52.280 Phillips added to this truth quote, the word teleportation was 2:28:52.320 --> 2:28:54.960 not mine. It was used by someone else in the conversation, 2:28:55.520 --> 2:28:59.240 reaching for a language describe something with no easy name, which. 2:28:59.160 --> 2:29:00.640 Is not true. He said teleport. 2:29:01.120 --> 2:29:02.119 He said teleport. 2:29:02.720 --> 2:29:04.280 I think what he means is he didn't wasn't his 2:29:04.360 --> 2:29:06.440 like initial term, then started using it. 2:29:06.800 --> 2:29:10.240 Yes, he keeps using it, he continues. 2:29:10.320 --> 2:29:10.600 Quote. 2:29:11.080 --> 2:29:16.320 The more accurate biblical terms are translated or transported, not 2:29:16.440 --> 2:29:18.959 new ideas for people of faith. If you believe that 2:29:19.000 --> 2:29:21.560 God moves in ways we cannot fully explain, as I do, 2:29:21.920 --> 2:29:24.279 then having faith is not a SoundBite. 2:29:24.680 --> 2:29:28.080 It is the whole point. I believe in miracles. All caps, 2:29:28.160 --> 2:29:32.359 God bless America. He has risen unquote. Now, one detail 2:29:32.640 --> 2:29:36.039 from the podcast that has not been mentioned as much, 2:29:36.320 --> 2:29:39.119 I think offers to help some idea of what's what's 2:29:39.120 --> 2:29:40.160 really going on here. 2:29:40.520 --> 2:29:46.640 It was an incredibly frightening moment to experience yourself in 2:29:46.720 --> 2:29:50.440 your car flying through the air. 2:29:50.560 --> 2:29:52.199 It was possible, it was real. 2:29:52.879 --> 2:29:54.240 He was teleposted in his car. 2:29:54.600 --> 2:29:56.920 He was in his car, which for me changes this 2:29:57.200 --> 2:30:00.920 entire thing, because these headlines were kind of kind of 2:30:01.200 --> 2:30:06.200 imagine as if his body like dematerialized somewhere, remateialized in 2:30:06.240 --> 2:30:09.360 a waffle house something that's you know, you know, certainly he. 2:30:09.440 --> 2:30:13.879 Just blacked out while driving, which is very different, which 2:30:13.959 --> 2:30:15.119 is very different. 2:30:17.120 --> 2:30:18.680 When we were driving around Texas. 2:30:19.000 --> 2:30:22.920 Yeah, I tell I teleported on Xanax one about thirty 2:30:22.959 --> 2:30:23.960 hours into the future. 2:30:24.480 --> 2:30:27.840 So the fact that he was owned doubt while driving 2:30:27.879 --> 2:30:30.680 and ended up at a waffle house much more, much 2:30:30.760 --> 2:30:35.680 more explainable. Because many many people in slightly and slightly 2:30:35.720 --> 2:30:40.600 all downright downright outside of waffle houses in their car. 2:30:41.120 --> 2:30:43.040 This is a very common occurred. This is probably about 2:30:43.160 --> 2:30:46.360 maybe ten to ten to thirty percent of the waffle 2:30:46.360 --> 2:30:50.080 house clientele shows up in this sort of environment where 2:30:50.840 --> 2:30:53.879 they are they are not operating on their full faculties, 2:30:53.959 --> 2:30:58.320 either through some sort of drugs, alcohol, medication, what have you. 2:30:58.560 --> 2:31:00.640 I've seen UFOs at a waffle house before. 2:31:01.040 --> 2:31:03.560 No, right, the wabble houses are you know, are have 2:31:03.680 --> 2:31:06.879 some kind of poll that I think attracts people like 2:31:06.920 --> 2:31:09.160 a magnet who are in US in an altered state, 2:31:09.320 --> 2:31:11.040 towards them as like a beacon. 2:31:11.280 --> 2:31:14.040 Yeah, that that poll is smothered and covered hash browns. 2:31:14.520 --> 2:31:17.680 Yes so. And the fact that I'm right open at 2:31:17.720 --> 2:31:18.440 four am. 2:31:18.640 --> 2:31:21.120 Oh, and bathrooms you can do heroin in don't forget 2:31:21.160 --> 2:31:23.400 that says it on the sign. 2:31:24.240 --> 2:31:27.119 I also want to make sure that we mentioned that. 2:31:27.160 --> 2:31:29.840 In the same week in which The New York Times, 2:31:29.879 --> 2:31:31.640 the guy who was writing the headline didn't know what 2:31:31.760 --> 2:31:35.080 NATO stood for. They also titled the initial title of 2:31:35.600 --> 2:31:38.640 the article they wrote about this was anti quote. FEMA 2:31:38.720 --> 2:31:43.279 official says he teleported to waffle house. Experts are dubious. 2:31:44.680 --> 2:31:50.280 This is this might be the worst. Experts disagree Headlight. Ever, 2:31:52.400 --> 2:31:53.160 I think this is good. 2:31:53.200 --> 2:31:56.160 I actually, out of out of the two poles of 2:31:56.240 --> 2:31:58.959 New York New York Times headlines this week, the data 2:31:59.000 --> 2:32:02.560 one is this one. Fully I fully agree with I 2:32:02.600 --> 2:32:05.879 fully agree with their their choice to say that experts 2:32:05.920 --> 2:32:07.320 are due because about teleportation. 2:32:07.680 --> 2:32:09.520 This does make me sad because in New York Times 2:32:09.600 --> 2:32:12.279 is also the outlet that ran what is, in my opinion, 2:32:12.320 --> 2:32:15.240 the best headline ever written. It was about the fact 2:32:15.280 --> 2:32:19.560 that moray good Okay. It was other subject of a 2:32:19.840 --> 2:32:23.359 scientific study which looked at moray eels and their ability 2:32:23.400 --> 2:32:26.520 to climb a ramp out of a pool to eat 2:32:26.520 --> 2:32:28.920 some food, which proved in theory that moray eels could 2:32:28.959 --> 2:32:31.840 hunt on land, and the headline was when an eel 2:32:31.879 --> 2:32:34.240 climbs a ramp to eat a squid from a clamp. 2:32:34.520 --> 2:32:37.800 That's a more ray title from a better time. 2:32:38.040 --> 2:32:43.080 Yeah yeah, what a different Yeah yeah whoever wrote that. 2:32:43.200 --> 2:32:44.520 I hope you're doing well. 2:32:47.560 --> 2:32:52.640 We will now teleport to an ad break and remterialize 2:32:52.720 --> 2:32:58.480 to discuss the back and forth ceasefire not ceasefire with Ron. 2:33:11.640 --> 2:33:14.480 We're back and depending on when you listen to this, 2:33:14.600 --> 2:33:17.440 we may either read back to War with Iran the 2:33:17.480 --> 2:33:20.400 straight up four moves could be closed or open. We're 2:33:20.440 --> 2:33:28.720 in like uh just this this beautiful? Like uh uh roadingers. 2:33:30.040 --> 2:33:31.560 No one knows where it's gonna. 2:33:31.280 --> 2:33:34.040 Go after this. Yeah, if you don't open your phone 2:33:34.600 --> 2:33:36.560 then and you never know how many wars since cease 2:33:36.600 --> 2:33:38.800 fires have started since the last time you opened your phone. 2:33:38.879 --> 2:33:41.160 That's right. They can't make you believe that a war 2:33:41.360 --> 2:33:44.440 is going on if you choose to not be informed. Yeah, 2:33:44.480 --> 2:33:46.279 other than by looking at gas prices. 2:33:46.760 --> 2:33:48.240 Yeah, yeah, that that is a thing. 2:33:49.000 --> 2:33:49.280 God. 2:33:49.600 --> 2:33:52.360 All right, let's let's try and do this in chronological order, 2:33:52.959 --> 2:33:56.240 because this week has been bonkers. So let's start with 2:33:56.480 --> 2:33:59.320 last Friday when you last listen to ed listening to 2:33:59.360 --> 2:34:03.920 Baby released a good Friday, And that is kind of 2:34:03.959 --> 2:34:07.840 important because a United States Air Force fifteen eighth Strike 2:34:07.920 --> 2:34:11.560 Eagle belonging to the forty eighth Fighter Wing, crashed in 2:34:11.640 --> 2:34:15.519 southwestern Iran last Friday after being hit by a manpad 2:34:16.160 --> 2:34:18.959 that the manpads is a shoulder fired surface to air missile. 2:34:19.640 --> 2:34:23.760 The plane carries a pilot and a WIZZO WSOS an ancronym. 2:34:24.000 --> 2:34:28.560 It means weapons systems officer or weapons systems operator. I'm 2:34:28.600 --> 2:34:30.560 just going to call them a weapons officer just to 2:34:30.560 --> 2:34:33.959 make it easier for everyone going forward. And both crew 2:34:34.000 --> 2:34:37.959 members safely self ejected from the plane. The United States 2:34:38.040 --> 2:34:41.360 very quickly launched a massive CISAR that's combat search and 2:34:41.400 --> 2:34:45.440 rescue operation involving helicopters, low flying aircraft and close air 2:34:45.440 --> 2:34:51.000 support from both MQ nine Reaper drones and eight ten aircraft. 2:34:51.440 --> 2:34:54.080 During this operation, in which the aircraft flew within small 2:34:54.160 --> 2:34:58.680 arms range of the ground in Kuzustan Province, several aircraft 2:34:58.720 --> 2:35:02.920 were damaged. One of the Jolly Green to rescue helicopters 2:35:03.560 --> 2:35:07.480 was hit with small arms fire, an eight ten thunderbolt 2:35:07.600 --> 2:35:10.480 crashed in the strait of horn Moves and the pilot 2:35:10.560 --> 2:35:14.119 was recovered. Another was hit and the pilot ejected over 2:35:14.320 --> 2:35:17.080 Q eight, but this effort did result in the safe 2:35:17.120 --> 2:35:20.800 recovery of the F fifteens pilot, but not the weapons officer. 2:35:21.400 --> 2:35:27.280 The following day, that happened during the day, right in 2:35:27.400 --> 2:35:31.000 daylight hours, which is remarkable. It is extremely rare to 2:35:31.040 --> 2:35:35.800 see this happening right like low flying helicopters over what 2:35:35.959 --> 2:35:38.960 is notion the enemy territory in the middle of the daytime. 2:35:39.360 --> 2:35:43.480 On Easter Sunday, the United States launched a huge operation 2:35:43.560 --> 2:35:46.760 which resulted in the recovery of the weapons officer. This 2:35:46.959 --> 2:35:50.800 was preceded by a disinformation campaign which hoped to make 2:35:50.879 --> 2:35:54.959 the Iranian state believe that they had extracted the weapons 2:35:55.000 --> 2:35:58.240 officer by land, which they hadn't. The operation involved a 2:35:58.280 --> 2:36:01.080 ton of Special Operations Forces as sets who flew to 2:36:01.160 --> 2:36:05.680 an agricultural airstrip outside Isfahan. This seems to have gone 2:36:05.800 --> 2:36:09.959 largely unremarked upon in the reporting. There is some crackpot 2:36:10.000 --> 2:36:13.280 theory that this was all cover for an operation that 2:36:13.440 --> 2:36:16.760 extracted enriched geranium from Isfahan because there is a nuclear 2:36:16.760 --> 2:36:19.880 research acility Isfahan. I have not seen any evidence to 2:36:19.879 --> 2:36:23.000 support that, but I think it is likely that they 2:36:23.120 --> 2:36:27.160 knew of this agricultural airstrip because of plans which were 2:36:27.200 --> 2:36:31.680 made for a potential raid on the Isfahan nuclear research 2:36:32.000 --> 2:36:36.720 facility during the operation m Q nine and ripa drone's 2:36:37.560 --> 2:36:41.240 bombed quote military age males who were close to the airmen. 2:36:41.840 --> 2:36:44.920 Iran had offered a reward of sixty thousand dollars for 2:36:45.280 --> 2:36:48.440 capturing this person before the United States got to them. 2:36:49.080 --> 2:36:52.640 And it is common for people in this area who like, 2:36:52.920 --> 2:36:56.119 if you're like herding animals, right to carry a gun, 2:36:56.240 --> 2:37:00.080 like to protect their animals or to protect themselves. There 2:37:00.120 --> 2:37:03.800 were some kind of propaganday videos of like local people 2:37:04.080 --> 2:37:06.680 looking for the m and right, they were carrying like 2:37:06.720 --> 2:37:11.320 Iranian flags and they're like antiquated bolt action rifles. But 2:37:11.440 --> 2:37:14.160 it's also very possible that some of these drone strikes 2:37:14.760 --> 2:37:16.920 may have occurred against people who were just going about 2:37:16.920 --> 2:37:19.800 their business in the region, right, Like if they didn't 2:37:20.120 --> 2:37:22.840 they said military age males that it's a broad remit. 2:37:22.959 --> 2:37:25.119 Any anyone who would out there being a shepherd would 2:37:25.160 --> 2:37:26.640 be a military age. 2:37:26.440 --> 2:37:28.760 Male, right, would be a military aged Yeah. 2:37:28.840 --> 2:37:31.840 Yeah, this is like one of the most sickening terms 2:37:32.400 --> 2:37:33.720 US warfare is invented. 2:37:34.200 --> 2:37:37.080 Yeah, military age mail is like anyone anytime people are 2:37:37.120 --> 2:37:39.720 using that, like you got a doesn't pass the SNIF test. 2:37:39.840 --> 2:37:42.040 No, it could be anyone from to like fourteen years 2:37:42.080 --> 2:37:44.440 old to like sixty nine exactly. 2:37:44.560 --> 2:37:44.760 Yeah. 2:37:44.800 --> 2:37:47.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2:37:46.959 --> 2:37:49.280 You'll be surprised who looks like an adult when you're 2:37:49.280 --> 2:37:50.440 a scared man with a gun. 2:37:50.720 --> 2:37:53.720 Yeah yeah, or looking from thousands of feet up on 2:37:54.160 --> 2:37:55.000 its own camera. 2:37:55.120 --> 2:37:55.320 Right. 2:37:55.560 --> 2:37:55.840 Yeah. 2:37:55.959 --> 2:37:59.160 It's a term invented for we are just going to 2:37:59.160 --> 2:38:01.360 start shooting at the people. We have no idea who 2:38:01.360 --> 2:38:03.320 they are, were just going to kill them. Yeah, and 2:38:03.400 --> 2:38:04.320 it's hideous. 2:38:04.480 --> 2:38:07.400 I was recently rereading I think it's called a Theory 2:38:07.400 --> 2:38:10.000 of the Drone. It's a philosophy book about drones and 2:38:10.120 --> 2:38:12.760 drone warfare, and there's a scene in the opening of 2:38:12.760 --> 2:38:14.959 that which I think is which you can probably get 2:38:14.959 --> 2:38:16.520 the free preview of the book if you have a 2:38:16.600 --> 2:38:18.879 kindle and read that scene. But it's very illustrative of 2:38:18.920 --> 2:38:23.280 how vague this term can be. The rescue operation saw 2:38:23.520 --> 2:38:27.920 the planes land at an airstrip. Then a little bit 2:38:28.000 --> 2:38:32.800 helicopter took off collected the airmen who had been evading, 2:38:32.800 --> 2:38:35.600 capturing a mountainous area. He was then carried back by 2:38:35.600 --> 2:38:38.720 the helicopter to the airstrip where the two larger aircrafts 2:38:38.720 --> 2:38:40.720 that had bought the helicopter and all the personnel had 2:38:40.760 --> 2:38:41.600 become stuck. 2:38:41.920 --> 2:38:42.640 Incredible. 2:38:43.280 --> 2:38:46.200 Yeah, I mean, I guess normally they would do some 2:38:46.280 --> 2:38:48.160 kind of soil sampling, but I think there probably just 2:38:48.280 --> 2:38:53.199 wasn't time. Yeah, So the United States elected to destroy 2:38:53.320 --> 2:38:57.080 those aircraft in place and send three more aircraft to 2:38:57.160 --> 2:39:01.680 recover their personnel. And we can see that Iran has 2:39:01.680 --> 2:39:03.680 published footage to that. Right, it seems that they also 2:39:03.760 --> 2:39:07.039 destroyed the Little Bird helicopters. I've seen some reporting that 2:39:07.080 --> 2:39:09.360 the Little Bird helicopters were just like on a one 2:39:09.400 --> 2:39:12.760 way flight, that they flew into Iran knowing that their 2:39:12.840 --> 2:39:15.680 range wasn't long enough for them to fly back, and 2:39:15.680 --> 2:39:18.119 that they always plan to destroy them. I don't think 2:39:18.160 --> 2:39:20.000 that's the case. I think they got them out the 2:39:20.040 --> 2:39:22.320 back of the sea one thirties and assembled them quickly. 2:39:22.360 --> 2:39:25.040 That that is a thing they have the capacity to do, 2:39:25.120 --> 2:39:28.680 and that is what makes the most sense. So on 2:39:28.800 --> 2:39:31.560 that same day, Easter Sunday, kind of a big deal 2:39:32.080 --> 2:39:37.320 for the Christian folks, Donald Trump truth the following quote, 2:39:37.440 --> 2:39:40.360 Tuesday will be power plant Day and bridge Day all 2:39:40.400 --> 2:39:42.920 wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing 2:39:43.080 --> 2:39:46.600 like it. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards, or 2:39:46.640 --> 2:39:47.760 you will be living in hell. 2:39:48.320 --> 2:39:48.840 Just watch. 2:39:49.280 --> 2:39:52.600 Praise be to Allah. 2:39:52.640 --> 2:39:53.640 I love the president. 2:39:54.040 --> 2:39:56.280 Yeah, yeah, that is a that is the leader of 2:39:56.320 --> 2:39:57.879 the free world. Yeah. 2:39:58.040 --> 2:40:01.000 My extremely low staged conspiracy that this was not Trump. 2:40:01.040 --> 2:40:04.560 This was written by Trump's staff because it's slightly off, 2:40:04.920 --> 2:40:05.520 it could have been. 2:40:05.600 --> 2:40:08.279 It doesn't sound like him, really. 2:40:08.160 --> 2:40:10.840 Yeah, he's not normally a like he gets. 2:40:11.360 --> 2:40:15.400 Yeah, a lot of stuff isn't really him. No, that's 2:40:15.440 --> 2:40:17.160 a weird thing for him to throw it. 2:40:17.200 --> 2:40:20.400 I can very easily believe that this is that this 2:40:20.480 --> 2:40:22.520 is him like going nuts on something. 2:40:23.320 --> 2:40:25.920 Yeah, like he could have done possible. I think there's 2:40:25.959 --> 2:40:28.400 a low chance that this was what this was like 2:40:28.440 --> 2:40:29.560 a staff written thing. 2:40:30.240 --> 2:40:34.039 It's just it's it's it's weird wording from him, like 2:40:34.120 --> 2:40:37.120 it's a strange message, although the last couple from him 2:40:37.120 --> 2:40:38.440 have all seemed kind of strange. 2:40:38.520 --> 2:40:39.720 Yeah, he is just out of it. 2:40:39.959 --> 2:40:42.680 The one he put up after the ceasefire announcement where 2:40:42.760 --> 2:40:45.000 he's like where he puts in quotations that the navy 2:40:45.040 --> 2:40:48.160 will be hanging round. Yeah, yeah, that's that's not doesn't 2:40:48.200 --> 2:40:51.119 sound like him much either, But also like who else 2:40:51.160 --> 2:40:53.879 would he let write that? It's He's it's just but 2:40:53.959 --> 2:40:56.400 it is weird, right, that does not sound like any 2:40:56.480 --> 2:41:01.240 previous Trump post hanging round to say fuck. 2:41:01.000 --> 2:41:03.160 In a Trump in a presidential tweet, Like, I don't 2:41:03.200 --> 2:41:04.240 know why a stuffer would do that. 2:41:04.480 --> 2:41:04.959 No, and I. 2:41:05.240 --> 2:41:06.119 Agree with you, Jays. 2:41:06.560 --> 2:41:09.320 These things are usually transcribed like usually he reads these 2:41:09.440 --> 2:41:12.520 out loud and someone writes them down and then he 2:41:12.840 --> 2:41:14.760 looks at them and and then and then and then 2:41:14.760 --> 2:41:17.080 they hit post like that. That's that's how all of 2:41:17.120 --> 2:41:19.040 his truths were structured in that documentary. 2:41:19.080 --> 2:41:22.680 Yes, does he dictate the capitalization. 2:41:22.560 --> 2:41:25.039 When he looks them over like he may. 2:41:25.360 --> 2:41:28.080 Okay, because he has a fascinating and quite unique approach 2:41:28.120 --> 2:41:29.680 to capitalization. 2:41:29.560 --> 2:41:32.360 Like specifically like there will be nothing like. It is 2:41:32.400 --> 2:41:34.959 definitely like a Trump a Trump verbal text. 2:41:35.040 --> 2:41:37.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a super Trump line. 2:41:37.720 --> 2:41:41.240 Yeah. But then like the next part, I is weird. 2:41:41.760 --> 2:41:45.840 But hanging round that's that's not really a Trump sounding line. 2:41:45.959 --> 2:41:48.480 Okay, sorry, it's weird. We we've all been distracted. 2:41:48.920 --> 2:41:51.520 So to talk about what he said on Tuesday, Power 2:41:52.240 --> 2:41:56.280 Bridge Day. Yeah, he said, quote A whole civilization will 2:41:56.320 --> 2:41:58.160 die tonight, never to be bought back again. 2:41:58.280 --> 2:41:59.160 That's a Trump line. 2:41:59.240 --> 2:42:03.320 Yeah. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. However, 2:42:03.640 --> 2:42:06.640 now that we have complete and total regime change where different, 2:42:06.720 --> 2:42:12.360 smarter and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something maybe something way. Yeah, 2:42:12.360 --> 2:42:16.320 I don't know. I'm not so sure. Maybe something revolutionarily 2:42:16.360 --> 2:42:19.560 wonderful can happen. Who knows. We will find out tonight 2:42:20.000 --> 2:42:22.720 one of the most important moments in the long and 2:42:22.800 --> 2:42:26.400 complex history of the world. Forty seven years of extortion, 2:42:26.800 --> 2:42:30.280 corruption and death will finally end. God bless the great 2:42:30.280 --> 2:42:35.279 people of Iran. Real journey that you go on, Yeah, 2:42:35.560 --> 2:42:38.640 from a civilization will die tonight to God bless the 2:42:38.640 --> 2:42:44.160 great people of Iran nightmarish. I don't know what to 2:42:44.280 --> 2:42:47.800 make of that, Like it seems like he's just they 2:42:47.959 --> 2:42:52.440 obviously striking civilian target. It is a war crime. It 2:42:52.520 --> 2:42:54.840 is a war crime Israel does all the time. We 2:42:54.920 --> 2:42:58.240 covered that last time we spoke a whole civilization will 2:42:58.280 --> 2:43:02.880 die tonight. Seems borderlin like genocidal as a threat. Yeah, 2:43:03.080 --> 2:43:04.840 that's that's not borderline. 2:43:05.560 --> 2:43:08.400 I think that is. I think that's a threat of genocide. Yeah, 2:43:08.480 --> 2:43:10.279 like this has been which by the way, is also 2:43:10.480 --> 2:43:13.959 like if you say this and then kill one person, 2:43:14.360 --> 2:43:17.120 like you are guilty of the crime of genocide. Yeah, yeah, 2:43:17.320 --> 2:43:18.280 like the genocide. 2:43:18.280 --> 2:43:22.120 Like it's not good. It is not good. Let's talk 2:43:22.160 --> 2:43:25.840 about what actually happened. Right since then, just before the deadline, 2:43:26.160 --> 2:43:28.160 a huge number of strikes hit a run, including the 2:43:28.160 --> 2:43:31.240 Ministry of Intelligence building at Chiraz. There's some evidence that 2:43:31.440 --> 2:43:35.720 may have had some tunnels underneath it, Aerospace Research Institute, 2:43:35.879 --> 2:43:42.039 bridges and aluminium factory. Brigadier General Majid Hademi, who is 2:43:42.080 --> 2:43:44.720 the head of IOGC Intelligence was also killed in the 2:43:44.760 --> 2:43:48.960 targeted strike, and we hit carg Island again. Good, finally, 2:43:49.320 --> 2:43:52.840 yeah yeah. Let a lot of people think that this 2:43:52.920 --> 2:43:55.039 might have been a precursor to some kind of US 2:43:55.160 --> 2:43:56.720 land operation however. 2:43:56.800 --> 2:43:58.760 Or nuclear weapons a lot, right. 2:43:58.760 --> 2:44:01.640 Yeah, right, we've seen this right again. When the president's 2:44:01.640 --> 2:44:04.400 saying you're gonna wipe out it doesn't make me feel calm. 2:44:04.800 --> 2:44:08.080 You should you should assume that the president might actually 2:44:08.400 --> 2:44:10.280 try to wipe out a culture. I mean, I like 2:44:10.360 --> 2:44:12.920 that is my strong stance on this, is that based 2:44:12.920 --> 2:44:15.800 on what he's saying, it is not unreasonable for people 2:44:15.840 --> 2:44:18.920 to flip out over this statement. It's absolutely not People 2:44:18.959 --> 2:44:23.000 should be outraged that a president said he they're pretty 2:44:23.040 --> 2:44:26.080 strong enough. It's really bad, like like it's very bad. 2:44:26.400 --> 2:44:28.360 Yeah, Like he should be hauled up in front of 2:44:28.360 --> 2:44:31.240 a tribunal like Meloshovic, Like I am not on team. 2:44:31.480 --> 2:44:32.879 We should just move past. 2:44:32.640 --> 2:44:36.840 This, like it's easy because everything's so insane to be 2:44:36.879 --> 2:44:40.080 like another insane thing everything. This is a guy who 2:44:40.200 --> 2:44:42.600 has the trigger for all the nukes saying he's going 2:44:42.640 --> 2:44:45.680 to wipe out a civilization, like I would love. 2:44:45.520 --> 2:44:50.480 To be the nothing ever happens. Nothing happened here, it's fine, Like, 2:44:50.640 --> 2:44:54.520 don't don't yield to Trump? Derangement syndrome. Guy, because it's 2:44:54.560 --> 2:44:57.440 a lot easier, but like this is not something anyone 2:44:57.440 --> 2:44:59.640 should move past. He should go on trial for like this, 2:45:00.600 --> 2:45:01.920 like outside of the other stuff. 2:45:02.280 --> 2:45:03.320 Yeah. 2:45:03.400 --> 2:45:06.320 Yeah, Each of these tweets would constitute a reason for 2:45:06.320 --> 2:45:12.040 a trial in any previous presidency. Since then, Pakistan offered 2:45:12.040 --> 2:45:15.760 to mediate a ceasefire and these are negotiated Toro on 2:45:15.840 --> 2:45:20.240 going as Donald Trump was true thing. Iran reportedly made 2:45:20.280 --> 2:45:23.560 a list of its own demands. This is a translation 2:45:23.680 --> 2:45:26.800 from Persians, so not a word for word quotation, right. 2:45:27.240 --> 2:45:30.200 It listed these in its telegram channels as control passage 2:45:30.200 --> 2:45:33.560 through the Strait Offorn Muse in coordination with Iran's arm forces, 2:45:34.560 --> 2:45:37.480 the necessity of ending the war against all components of 2:45:37.520 --> 2:45:40.800 the Axis of Resistance, that withdrawal of US combat forces 2:45:40.840 --> 2:45:43.840 from all bases and deployments in the region, establishing a 2:45:43.879 --> 2:45:46.640 secure transit protocol and the straight ofform Mouse that guarantees 2:45:46.680 --> 2:45:51.280 Iranian control, full payment of damages to Iran, removal of 2:45:51.280 --> 2:45:56.160 all primary and secondary sanctions, the release of frozen Iranian 2:45:56.240 --> 2:45:59.200 assets and property abroad, and the ratification of all these 2:45:59.240 --> 2:46:04.640 items in a UN Security Council resolution. The parties that 2:46:04.760 --> 2:46:08.120 agreed to a two week ceasefire. Trump again shared the 2:46:08.160 --> 2:46:10.880 news of this on Truth's social kind of done reading 2:46:10.879 --> 2:46:12.879 out trees. I'm going to skip that one. That was 2:46:12.879 --> 2:46:16.480 a hanging around one. Very Shortly thereafter, Israel began a 2:46:16.520 --> 2:46:20.840 massive bombing campaign in Lebanon, and Iran continued to launch 2:46:20.879 --> 2:46:24.960 missiles at the occupied territories. Carolin Leavitt has said that 2:46:25.040 --> 2:46:27.119 Trump refused the Iranian plan. 2:46:27.600 --> 2:46:30.600 The Iranians originally put forward a ten point plan that 2:46:30.720 --> 2:46:35.720 was fundamentally unserious, unacceptable, and completely discarded. It was literally 2:46:35.760 --> 2:46:39.800 thrown in the garbage by President Trump and his negotiating team. 2:46:40.240 --> 2:46:43.200 Many outlets in this room have falsely reported on that 2:46:43.240 --> 2:46:46.360 plan as being acceptable to the United States, and that 2:46:46.560 --> 2:46:47.039 is false. 2:46:48.160 --> 2:46:51.360 So she was pretty emphatic about that. Trump attacks CNN 2:46:51.560 --> 2:46:55.280 for publishing the plan this morning. Trump has said that 2:46:55.320 --> 2:46:59.000 the Israeli attacks on Lebanon were quote a separate skirmish. 2:47:00.200 --> 2:47:03.960 Striket Lebanon a hundred times in just over ten minutes 2:47:04.040 --> 2:47:07.959 today they dropped whole tower blocks in Beirut. 2:47:08.480 --> 2:47:09.879 That that is not a skirmish. 2:47:10.120 --> 2:47:12.560 Now he said they're not part of the deal because 2:47:12.560 --> 2:47:15.400 as Buller's not part of the deal. Of course, in it. 2:47:15.560 --> 2:47:20.199 Ran state media are pushing that they've they have somehow 2:47:20.240 --> 2:47:23.080 achieved all of their ten points, which I think were 2:47:23.080 --> 2:47:26.480 their sort of goals for negotiation or a basis for negotiation. 2:47:27.200 --> 2:47:30.280 Trump has said to one reporter that the tolls on 2:47:30.320 --> 2:47:33.520 the street could be a joint venture between the United 2:47:33.520 --> 2:47:34.599 States and Iran. 2:47:34.560 --> 2:47:37.280 Which suggest there are some parts of this of this 2:47:37.440 --> 2:47:39.920 deal that that are that are true, that he has 2:47:40.040 --> 2:47:40.959 kind of agreed. 2:47:40.640 --> 2:47:42.720 On, that are at least on the table. Right, Like 2:47:42.840 --> 2:47:46.000 these are the bases, which was how they were initially 2:47:46.080 --> 2:47:48.800 reported by CNN and others, that these have been accepted 2:47:48.800 --> 2:47:51.800 as a basis for negotiation. They had not been accepted 2:47:52.320 --> 2:47:56.000 whole cloth. Some people of some whom I think are 2:47:56.000 --> 2:48:00.280 acting in bad faith, have said since this more warning. 2:48:00.760 --> 2:48:03.360 The Wall Street Journal has reported that the tolls will 2:48:03.400 --> 2:48:08.080 be paid in cryptocurrency or Chinese one yeah, and that 2:48:08.200 --> 2:48:11.279 around it is broadcasting VHF messages. It's very high frequency. 2:48:11.320 --> 2:48:14.959 It's radio frequency warning non paying ships crossing the straight 2:48:14.959 --> 2:48:17.680 of home moods that they will be targeted. Trumpet provitly 2:48:17.680 --> 2:48:20.480 said the straight offor moves is open. This doesn't seem 2:48:20.560 --> 2:48:21.240 like that. 2:48:21.920 --> 2:48:23.879 The tolls about like two million, right. 2:48:23.920 --> 2:48:27.080 Well, there have been various proposals. Some I said two 2:48:27.120 --> 2:48:30.160 million dollars. I've seen different dollar sums per barrel of 2:48:30.240 --> 2:48:33.480 oil transiting the straight. I guess it would depend if 2:48:33.480 --> 2:48:36.840 it's if it's if the US Iranian partnership. You know 2:48:36.879 --> 2:48:40.000 how we're going to account for the exchange rate. Everyone 2:48:40.120 --> 2:48:42.360 has to get their peace right. Yeah, but yes, the 2:48:42.360 --> 2:48:44.400 two million dollars number was thrown around a lot. 2:48:44.480 --> 2:48:47.080 Yeah, and it's worth noting that the strait is not 2:48:47.200 --> 2:48:49.480 open now. It is simply not. 2:48:49.800 --> 2:48:53.280 The number isn't a lesson stopp launching strikes. 2:48:53.600 --> 2:48:55.959 Well, even if they wanted to open it right now, 2:48:56.400 --> 2:48:58.880 they would have to remove the mines that they've put 2:48:58.879 --> 2:48:59.120 in it. 2:48:59.240 --> 2:49:01.440 Right, We don't know how many minds there are. 2:49:01.520 --> 2:49:03.920 If there are, so there are still ships going through, 2:49:04.720 --> 2:49:06.640 there's not many of them, like there's I think it was. 2:49:06.680 --> 2:49:09.680 The number I saw for today was four. Yeah, yeah, 2:49:09.720 --> 2:49:13.120 like so like like it is technic, it is possible 2:49:13.160 --> 2:49:17.280 to go through. But four is like one of the 2:49:17.280 --> 2:49:20.199 lowest numbers that has happened since the Strait was first closed. 2:49:20.480 --> 2:49:23.640 So it has has simply not been reopened. Trump says 2:49:23.680 --> 2:49:24.520 this constantly. 2:49:24.959 --> 2:49:27.560 It's down to one channel, would be my guess, right, Like, 2:49:27.600 --> 2:49:29.959 it's because and then that they're advising those ships. I'm 2:49:29.959 --> 2:49:32.560 guessing we're sending a pilot craft perhaps to go between 2:49:32.600 --> 2:49:33.200 the mines. 2:49:33.320 --> 2:49:33.560 Yeah. 2:49:33.600 --> 2:49:37.080 I haven't seen any reporting on how they're getting them through. 2:49:37.840 --> 2:49:39.000 Yeah, I haven't. 2:49:39.200 --> 2:49:43.920 The extent to which they've laid minds is really unclear. Yeah, 2:49:44.000 --> 2:49:46.439 Like all we know is that they have the capacity 2:49:46.480 --> 2:49:48.480 to do so, in that the US has been striking 2:49:49.040 --> 2:49:51.520 craft that are set to lay minds. But like, I 2:49:51.560 --> 2:49:53.560 haven't heard of any evidence of a ship getting hit 2:49:53.600 --> 2:49:54.560 with the mine yet. 2:49:54.680 --> 2:49:57.400 Right, Yeah, neither of I s Perhaps they haven't. 2:49:57.200 --> 2:49:59.160 Laid any or we don't know what they've done. They 2:49:59.200 --> 2:50:01.280 may have decided that that was more of than they 2:50:01.360 --> 2:50:02.520 needed to do at this point. 2:50:02.800 --> 2:50:03.359 Yeah. 2:50:03.560 --> 2:50:05.480 Yeah, And so far, all of the attacks on ships 2:50:05.480 --> 2:50:07.959 have been with other more conventional weapons. 2:50:07.800 --> 2:50:12.240 Yeah, either sea drones or missiles of various kinds. 2:50:12.480 --> 2:50:16.400 Yeah, shooting them with guns in a couple of cases. 2:50:16.400 --> 2:50:20.080 Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Garrison, let's start with this clip of JD. 2:50:20.240 --> 2:50:23.439 Vance talking about the inclusion of Lebanon in this ceasefire. 2:50:23.840 --> 2:50:26.680 First of all, I actually think and there's a lot 2:50:26.720 --> 2:50:29.320 of bad faith negotiation and a lot. 2:50:29.160 --> 2:50:30.080 Of bad faith. 2:50:30.480 --> 2:50:33.400 You know, propaganda going on. I think this comes from 2:50:33.440 --> 2:50:37.120 a legitimate misunderstanding. I think the Iranians thought that the 2:50:37.160 --> 2:50:40.800 ceasefire included Lebanon, and it just didn't. We never made 2:50:40.800 --> 2:50:42.880 that promise, We never indicated that was going to be 2:50:42.920 --> 2:50:45.440 the case. What we said is that the ceasefire would 2:50:45.440 --> 2:50:48.039 be focused on Iran, and the ceasefire would be focused 2:50:48.080 --> 2:50:51.279 on America's allies. Both Israel and the Golf are of states. 2:50:51.840 --> 2:50:55.640 So yeah, let's talk about Israel, right, a country which 2:50:55.680 --> 2:51:00.720 famously loves to respect a ceasefire. Israel has continued to 2:51:00.760 --> 2:51:07.320 strike inside Iran. It has not stopped since the announcement 2:51:07.320 --> 2:51:11.080 of this ceasefire, right, it has shown no indication of 2:51:11.240 --> 2:51:14.400 wanting to stop. It is also continued, as I said, 2:51:14.520 --> 2:51:19.600 it's massive bombing campaign side Lebanon. It seems to be 2:51:19.760 --> 2:51:24.600 the case that whatever was negotiated, the Israelis do not 2:51:24.720 --> 2:51:27.480 perceive the ceasefire as applying to them, or at least 2:51:27.520 --> 2:51:29.360 the IDF does not, I should say, rather than the 2:51:29.560 --> 2:51:35.280 ralis right, and therefore Iran does not perceive it as 2:51:35.760 --> 2:51:38.240 being obliged to no longer strike Israel. 2:51:38.800 --> 2:51:40.600 Yeah, I mean, the whole situation right now is very 2:51:40.680 --> 2:51:43.080 unclear and is literally changing by the hour. 2:51:43.280 --> 2:51:45.279 Yeah, like by the time we're done recording this. 2:51:45.400 --> 2:51:48.480 Right, Yeah, so we're recording this Wednesday afternoon. By the 2:51:48.480 --> 2:51:51.920 time this comes out Thursday night slash Friday morning, there 2:51:51.920 --> 2:51:53.600 could be a whole different situation. 2:51:54.320 --> 2:51:54.520 Yeah. 2:51:54.560 --> 2:51:56.840 Yeah, I'll try and record a pickup if we have to. 2:51:57.000 --> 2:52:00.119 But yeah, as of as of Wednesday afternoon, this is 2:52:00.120 --> 2:52:03.879 what the sort of ambiguity around around the deal looks 2:52:03.959 --> 2:52:07.120 like and the level of compliance regarding Israel and the 2:52:07.240 --> 2:52:08.120 United States. 2:52:08.560 --> 2:52:10.680 Yeah, there are two more things I want to talk 2:52:10.720 --> 2:52:13.000 about that have been reported on the list. Obviously, this 2:52:13.040 --> 2:52:15.680 has been reported on widely because it is a threat 2:52:15.800 --> 2:52:17.600 to all of our lives if we're going to start 2:52:17.600 --> 2:52:21.360 a nuclear war. The pak is Curtis Down Freedom Party, 2:52:21.840 --> 2:52:24.920 says it's leaders headquarters. This was interally reported as home. 2:52:25.520 --> 2:52:27.640 They did send me a text to use the word 2:52:27.760 --> 2:52:31.560 home WhatsApp, but I think, judging by what I have 2:52:31.600 --> 2:52:34.240 heard from other reports in a region, it's better described 2:52:34.240 --> 2:52:39.840 as headquarters. Were struck with several Iranian missiles. This came after, 2:52:39.959 --> 2:52:42.600 according to Fox News, the President claimed that the United 2:52:42.640 --> 2:52:46.720 States sent weapons to protesters in Iran in January, but 2:52:46.879 --> 2:52:50.800 that quote the Kurds kept them. Now, a video of 2:52:50.840 --> 2:52:54.840 Trump addressing the issue does not explicitly name the Kurds, 2:52:54.879 --> 2:52:57.080 it does imply that they. 2:52:56.920 --> 2:53:00.200 Don't have guns. You know, we send some guns the 2:53:00.360 --> 2:53:02.600 group that was supposed to give which I said, what 2:53:02.800 --> 2:53:04.360 happened to my people? I said it. 2:53:04.400 --> 2:53:05.480 I called it exactly. 2:53:06.280 --> 2:53:07.960 We sent guns, a lot of guns. 2:53:08.280 --> 2:53:10.120 They were supposed to go to the people said they 2:53:10.120 --> 2:53:12.640 could fight back against these ducks. You know what happened. 2:53:13.040 --> 2:53:15.879 The people that they sent them to kept them because 2:53:15.879 --> 2:53:17.200 they said, what a beautiful gun. 2:53:17.240 --> 2:53:18.119 I think I'll keep it. 2:53:18.640 --> 2:53:21.280 So I'm very upset with a certain group of people, 2:53:21.320 --> 2:53:22.840 and they're going to pay a big price for that. 2:53:23.400 --> 2:53:27.360 But the Iranian people who will fight back as soon 2:53:27.400 --> 2:53:28.959 as they know they're not going to be shot and 2:53:29.000 --> 2:53:31.120 as soon as they can get weapons. 2:53:33.400 --> 2:53:37.119 This is one of the most seed It's up there 2:53:37.160 --> 2:53:41.600 with him threatening to new Karam the Easter Bunny, and it's. 2:53:42.160 --> 2:53:45.480 I hesitate to use the word Lynchian because that work 2:53:45.480 --> 2:53:46.440 gets misapplied a lot. 2:53:46.480 --> 2:53:51.080 And Tufa asks him, and this is not a perfect. 2:53:50.720 --> 2:53:55.360 Invocation of Lynchian either, but it's getting closer with the 2:53:56.120 --> 2:53:57.039 sort of one of the. 2:53:56.920 --> 2:53:58.960 More Lynchian things to have pay real life. 2:53:59.120 --> 2:54:02.040 It's incredible up with like the Easter jazz in the 2:54:02.080 --> 2:54:05.440 back crash of vibes. Yeah, as there's like flowers over 2:54:05.480 --> 2:54:09.640 the archway. Yeah, I think half co No, there's sort 2:54:09.640 --> 2:54:11.640 of the sort of juxtaposition, right, which I think is 2:54:11.640 --> 2:54:14.600 that is the key part of leedge is like is 2:54:14.600 --> 2:54:18.440 this surreal with the mundane and you have parts of 2:54:18.480 --> 2:54:20.680 this here where you have this sort of intensity of 2:54:20.720 --> 2:54:23.640 the stuff Trump's talking about with the Eastern jazz and 2:54:23.680 --> 2:54:27.120 his like purple tie and the easter like decorations in 2:54:27.160 --> 2:54:31.760 the background. This is this is a stunning piece of media. 2:54:31.480 --> 2:54:32.720 Stunning piece of history. 2:54:32.840 --> 2:54:35.720 God yeah, I saw this yesterday and I thought I 2:54:35.800 --> 2:54:38.480 need to expose my colleagues to this, like one of 2:54:38.480 --> 2:54:42.039 the most incredible thirty seconds of video. To come back 2:54:42.040 --> 2:54:45.879 to topic at hand, various Rogulati groups have denied this, 2:54:46.360 --> 2:54:49.240 and it would be an extreme logistical challenge to provide 2:54:49.280 --> 2:54:52.720 weapons to Curdish arm groups, most of whom have most 2:54:52.720 --> 2:54:56.600 of their personnel in Iraq, and for them to transit 2:54:56.800 --> 2:55:00.880 those weapons to Tehran. I don't belie believe that that 2:55:01.480 --> 2:55:04.840 would have been something that any US administration would entertain. 2:55:05.840 --> 2:55:08.960 What guns would they give them that they don't because 2:55:08.959 --> 2:55:11.720 if these groups tend to be pretty well supplied with 2:55:11.800 --> 2:55:15.480 small personal arms we're talking about like your battle rifles 2:55:16.160 --> 2:55:19.560 and you know, long range precision rifles and the like, 2:55:19.640 --> 2:55:23.280 what they lack is man portable anti aircraft and man 2:55:23.280 --> 2:55:25.280 portable anti armor. Those are kind of some of the 2:55:25.280 --> 2:55:28.040 most precious pieces of gear to them, and I doubt 2:55:28.040 --> 2:55:31.200 Trump was offering to send that into Iran, among other things. 2:55:31.560 --> 2:55:33.640 We probably don't want to be sending a bunch of 2:55:33.720 --> 2:55:36.560 man portable anti aircraft into Iran. 2:55:36.320 --> 2:55:38.920 Right now, Like that s babfire. 2:55:40.120 --> 2:55:41.840 But that's the only shit I could see these different 2:55:41.879 --> 2:55:43.920 groups wanting to take for themselves. 2:55:44.240 --> 2:55:47.800 Yeah, it's especially strange because, like I watched a lot 2:55:47.840 --> 2:55:51.440 of videos of armed attacks on uh, like Iranian police 2:55:51.640 --> 2:55:54.160 in January of this year, and they were using very 2:55:54.200 --> 2:55:56.680 basic weapons, to include quite a few of the pak 2:55:56.959 --> 2:55:58.439 using pumpacked shotguns. 2:55:58.800 --> 2:55:59.119 Yeah. 2:55:59.200 --> 2:56:02.199 I don't think the US sent them pump action shotguns. 2:56:02.280 --> 2:56:04.160 No, that would be a weird We don't. The US 2:56:04.280 --> 2:56:06.480 military doesn't have a lot of pump action shot is 2:56:06.560 --> 2:56:08.680 just laying around. Yeah, that's not like the first gun 2:56:08.720 --> 2:56:10.920 they'd have a bunch of to hand over to somebody. 2:56:11.040 --> 2:56:12.760 They've probably got more ak's than that. 2:56:13.120 --> 2:56:15.120 Yeah, and like there were ak's used as well, but 2:56:15.160 --> 2:56:16.959 like these are very basic episodes, as you say, like 2:56:17.360 --> 2:56:19.880 this doesn't seem like anything that would come from the US. 2:56:20.440 --> 2:56:25.199 Also in Kurdistan and Iranian drones struck Zagazawi village, killing 2:56:25.320 --> 2:56:29.320 Musa anwar Rasul, aged thirty nine, and his wife Musta 2:56:29.400 --> 2:56:34.679 Asad Hassan. Their children both survived. This is really heartbreaking, 2:56:34.879 --> 2:56:38.119 and like there were really horrible videos of their children, 2:56:38.760 --> 2:56:42.440 like like confronting the fact that they are now orphans, right, 2:56:42.760 --> 2:56:46.920 and because of stories like this one, which I do 2:56:47.000 --> 2:56:52.040 not see any basis for. In fact, Kurdistan is being 2:56:52.160 --> 2:56:56.680 absolutely hammered by Iranian bonds, right, the little children are 2:56:56.720 --> 2:57:00.360 losing their parents, and like I'm really dist but just 2:57:00.440 --> 2:57:02.800 I say, every week by the campus tendency to ignore 2:57:02.840 --> 2:57:05.280 this or to say that it has to happen because 2:57:05.280 --> 2:57:08.960 the Kurds don't have a state, or even the sort 2:57:09.000 --> 2:57:13.039 of blue wave tendency to sort of handwave this and say, well, 2:57:13.080 --> 2:57:16.000 Donald Trump started the war, so Ryan gets to murder 2:57:16.040 --> 2:57:20.039 Curtis Villians. Like I just find it so heartbreaking. And 2:57:20.280 --> 2:57:22.000 Robert and I have both spent time in Kurtis down 2:57:22.080 --> 2:57:23.760 and a kind of funness sort of people there, but 2:57:24.200 --> 2:57:24.840 makes me mad. 2:57:25.520 --> 2:57:28.080 It's all pretty bleak and disappointing. 2:57:28.879 --> 2:57:31.400 Well, you know what else disappointing. Every week we have 2:57:31.480 --> 2:57:43.240 to do this. It's an ad break. 2:57:44.560 --> 2:57:47.960 All right, we're back. We still have three or four 2:57:48.240 --> 2:57:53.800 important stories that we're gonna do here before we close. James, 2:57:53.840 --> 2:57:57.280 want to start with your section on the threat to 2:57:57.400 --> 2:57:58.519 press freedom. 2:57:58.959 --> 2:58:01.320 Yeah, so I think this is import President Trump has 2:58:01.320 --> 2:58:04.199 said that his DOJ will seek to prosecute the person 2:58:04.200 --> 2:58:07.920 who quote leaked the information that the fifteen's weapons safety 2:58:07.959 --> 2:58:11.240 officer was missing an evading caption in Iran. Quote we're 2:58:11.240 --> 2:58:13.200 going to go to the media company that released it, 2:58:13.280 --> 2:58:16.440 or we're going to say national security, give it up, 2:58:17.040 --> 2:58:20.560 or go to jail, Trump said, quote The entire country 2:58:20.600 --> 2:58:22.640 of Iran knew that there was a pilot that was 2:58:22.680 --> 2:58:24.840 somewhere on their land that was fighting for his life. 2:58:25.840 --> 2:58:29.119 Wasn't pilots, it was a weapons officer, but airmen. 2:58:29.280 --> 2:58:29.440 Right. 2:58:30.080 --> 2:58:32.760 I can't quite find who broke the story because it's 2:58:32.800 --> 2:58:37.560 not really a story that broke. It didn't require anyone 2:58:37.640 --> 2:58:41.320 to leak anything to know that someone was missing, because 2:58:41.360 --> 2:58:45.560 the wreckage and without seeing the wreckage. People weren't really 2:58:45.600 --> 2:58:48.240 willing to publish the story rights they had no confirmation 2:58:48.360 --> 2:58:51.440 In Iran says wild shit all the time. Yeah, the 2:58:51.600 --> 2:58:55.840 wreckage was photographed and published by presumably Iranian sources, and 2:58:55.879 --> 2:58:58.039 it very clearly showed the livery of a US Air 2:58:58.080 --> 2:59:00.960 Force fifteen based out of late and Heath, which is 2:59:01.000 --> 2:59:04.560 near Cambridge in the United Kingdom. There were some very 2:59:04.560 --> 2:59:07.080 early reports before we foll photos that the plane should 2:59:07.080 --> 2:59:09.280 shut down was an F thirty five and that would 2:59:09.280 --> 2:59:12.640 have been a single seater, right, But as soon as 2:59:12.640 --> 2:59:14.760 the images came out, everyone knew that wasn't the case. 2:59:15.560 --> 2:59:16.840 Was an F fifth Strike Eagle. 2:59:17.000 --> 2:59:20.200 Yeah, and there are single seat to F fifteen variants, 2:59:20.200 --> 2:59:22.440 but I don't believe any of them are active. Dut 2:59:22.680 --> 2:59:26.160 US Air Force Strike Eagles will always have two people. 2:59:27.120 --> 2:59:30.640 It's not a single seater, right, So nobody had to 2:59:30.720 --> 2:59:33.360 leak that information for it to be obvious that if 2:59:33.360 --> 2:59:36.640 they had collected one person, then there was still one person. 2:59:37.480 --> 2:59:40.040 This does represent quite a serious attack on the First Amendment. 2:59:40.360 --> 2:59:43.600 People are killing and dying over Irun, and our tax 2:59:43.640 --> 2:59:47.720 dollars are supporting that have a right to know. Journalism 2:59:47.760 --> 2:59:50.440 has played a role in the way Americans perceive conflict 2:59:50.480 --> 2:59:52.080 for a very long time. Right, we can think about 2:59:52.080 --> 2:59:56.160 the Napalm Girl photo. Understand that photo now has disputed authorship. 2:59:56.720 --> 3:00:00.200 We can think about well to cronkite Vietnam War, think 3:00:00.240 --> 3:00:03.320 about I have a great hib There is no federal 3:00:03.360 --> 3:00:06.320 press shield law, though, and journalists have been held in 3:00:06.320 --> 3:00:09.959 contempt for refusing to reveal sources on that security issues before. 3:00:10.640 --> 3:00:14.200 This is a serious threat and it's one that I 3:00:14.200 --> 3:00:15.880 think everyone should take very seriously. 3:00:16.080 --> 3:00:16.320 Yeah. 3:00:16.400 --> 3:00:19.560 Well, and it's a very important part of the of 3:00:19.680 --> 3:00:22.600 the last little section of the Newsroom TV show. There's 3:00:22.640 --> 3:00:26.240 a whole plot line about death and at shows. Yes, yes, yes, Gareth, 3:00:26.240 --> 3:00:28.320 they're sure is so I just thought that's worth mentioning. 3:00:28.800 --> 3:00:30.640 You guys have told me not to watch Size. It'll 3:00:30.640 --> 3:00:32.800 make me angry, and I've respected that that. 3:00:32.720 --> 3:00:35.879 You should not James Will, you will lose your mind. 3:00:36.600 --> 3:00:37.520 It's not good for you. 3:00:37.640 --> 3:00:39.520 There's a lot of stuffs making me angry right now. 3:00:39.560 --> 3:00:40.560 So I'm going to give that one. 3:00:40.640 --> 3:00:43.480 Too much sork In at the moment is very quickly 3:00:43.520 --> 3:00:44.320 becomes toxic. 3:00:44.480 --> 3:00:46.320 Too much. Sorkin has really fucked up a lot of 3:00:46.360 --> 3:00:47.400 people in this country. 3:00:47.640 --> 3:00:50.800 Yeah, speaking of things that will really fuck you up, 3:00:51.360 --> 3:00:59.119 are beautiful tariff music, right. 3:01:01.560 --> 3:01:05.039 Locking, locking. 3:01:06.200 --> 3:01:12.080 Lockingspot Ah, So glad that we're back to talking about tariffs. 3:01:12.320 --> 3:01:16.480 So okay, if we have a couple of a wrong 3:01:16.560 --> 3:01:20.680 related tariff things, Garrett, are we playing the nightmare clip? 3:01:20.760 --> 3:01:22.120 We have to play the nightmare clip. 3:01:22.120 --> 3:01:26.280 We're playing the nightmare clip? Okay, this is okay. When 3:01:26.360 --> 3:01:29.840 when inevitably, in the course of humanity they have to 3:01:29.959 --> 3:01:34.760 make a museum to explain to people what capitalism was, 3:01:35.280 --> 3:01:36.960 this is what they are going to show. 3:01:37.879 --> 3:01:44.400 This is a clip from the quote unquote news agency CNBC. 3:01:43.879 --> 3:01:47.279 Deadline that President Trump has sat a PM has threatened 3:01:47.280 --> 3:01:48.519 to destroy a civilization. 3:01:50.520 --> 3:01:52.800 How how does how does an investor process that? 3:01:52.959 --> 3:01:53.160 Is it? 3:01:53.240 --> 3:01:55.160 Is it a bigger upside risk or downside risk? 3:01:58.720 --> 3:02:02.640 Big upside risk, onside risk to genocide? 3:02:02.879 --> 3:02:05.680 She kind of looks up and then just goes right in. 3:02:06.240 --> 3:02:10.720 Like when when they have to like explain to people, right, 3:02:11.120 --> 3:02:16.440 like how how eight billion people were like consumed into 3:02:16.480 --> 3:02:19.440 these like roles that they were forced to inhabit by 3:02:19.440 --> 3:02:22.760 the machinations of capital. This is gonna be the one. 3:02:24.000 --> 3:02:28.640 Oh god, it turns out, uh, the markets responded very 3:02:28.680 --> 3:02:31.640 positively to Trump's threats to destroy a civilization. 3:02:32.360 --> 3:02:35.600 It's I, you know, what if what if we didn't 3:02:35.600 --> 3:02:38.480 have market? What if what if there wasn't a line? 3:02:39.240 --> 3:02:46.640 I oh god, okay, so speaking of bad things, I 3:02:46.680 --> 3:02:52.160 guess so. On Wednesday, Trump posted on truth Social quote 3:02:52.760 --> 3:02:58.320 a country capital CE country supplying capital M military weapons 3:02:58.800 --> 3:03:02.000 to Iran will be in immediately tarriffed on any and 3:03:02.080 --> 3:03:04.840 all goods sold to the United States of America fifty 3:03:04.879 --> 3:03:09.000 percent effective immediately. There will be no exclusions or exemptions. 3:03:09.760 --> 3:03:14.600 So can he do this? Yes? Key nined Listeners may 3:03:14.640 --> 3:03:17.320 remember that the legal authority he was claiming to have 3:03:17.360 --> 3:03:20.879 to do this the Supreme Court made go away, So 3:03:21.600 --> 3:03:25.920 can you do this? Look okay. The way he's describing 3:03:26.000 --> 3:03:31.080 this right sounds like he's using trade authority. It may 3:03:31.160 --> 3:03:34.879 be that buried somewhere deep in the annals of like 3:03:35.040 --> 3:03:39.560 sanction policy or some shit. Maybe there's something I went 3:03:39.640 --> 3:03:41.960 through all of the trade authority that I know of 3:03:43.120 --> 3:03:46.560 to try to find any legal authority for this. The 3:03:46.600 --> 3:03:50.600 short version is there isn't. The long version is okay, 3:03:50.680 --> 3:03:53.959 So I guess in theory, maybe if you squint right, 3:03:54.040 --> 3:03:56.360 you could use Session three oh one of the nineteen 3:03:56.360 --> 3:03:59.240 seventy four Trade Act, but that's supposed to be a 3:03:59.320 --> 3:04:06.000 national security risk from unfair trade practices. So it could 3:04:06.000 --> 3:04:08.080 technically work. But the thing is you also have to 3:04:08.560 --> 3:04:11.040 that specific one. We've talked about this on the show before. 3:04:11.520 --> 3:04:12.920 You have to like set up a commission and do 3:04:12.959 --> 3:04:15.160 a trade study, and there's like all the stuff, so 3:04:15.200 --> 3:04:16.320 it can't work immediately. 3:04:16.840 --> 3:04:18.720 No, and Trump doesn't seem like a big set up 3:04:18.879 --> 3:04:19.959 a commission guy. 3:04:20.640 --> 3:04:22.360 I mean, well, thing is that they actually have done 3:04:22.400 --> 3:04:25.959 this for China already. But I don't know if you 3:04:26.040 --> 3:04:29.640 squint like really hard, like like if you like really 3:04:30.040 --> 3:04:35.720 really squint at like section two thirty two, like maybe 3:04:35.840 --> 3:04:41.720 in theory, like but like no, like if you're really 3:04:41.720 --> 3:04:45.880 willing to believe that, like the president has the ability 3:04:45.959 --> 3:04:48.840 to be like this is what the law says, then 3:04:49.200 --> 3:04:51.920 maybe the only way I can see this working is 3:04:51.920 --> 3:04:54.240 if he invokes section three thirty eight, which is the 3:04:54.600 --> 3:04:57.680 this is like the remaining part of the Smoot Holly tariffs. 3:04:57.800 --> 3:04:59.680 Now fantasy good sme. 3:05:00.280 --> 3:05:02.640 Yeah, So, like, okay, there is a small chance that, 3:05:02.680 --> 3:05:05.760 like you, the listeners may have heard of the Smoot 3:05:05.800 --> 3:05:07.880 Holly tariffs, and that's because it's the one that made 3:05:07.879 --> 3:05:11.160 the Great Depression worse. Yep, and no one's ever used 3:05:11.160 --> 3:05:13.240 them since it's not even clear if they're on the 3:05:13.240 --> 3:05:17.840 books anymore, because like this is a legitimate thing of 3:05:17.879 --> 3:05:20.320 academic discussions like whether these are even still in effect 3:05:20.320 --> 3:05:23.560 because they haven't been used, they're technically still there, but 3:05:23.879 --> 3:05:29.080 also no one has like ever used them. And also 3:05:29.120 --> 3:05:34.720 there's been like subsequent laws regulating trade. So I don't know, 3:05:34.840 --> 3:05:37.320 there's no way he can do this legally that wouldn't 3:05:37.320 --> 3:05:40.520 immediately fall apart. It wouldn't fall apart eventually to a 3:05:40.560 --> 3:05:46.160 court challenge except maybe the like Smoot Holly like nuclear 3:05:46.200 --> 3:05:51.000 bomb desperation thing. I don't know. It's very unclear to 3:05:51.040 --> 3:05:53.640 me whether any of this is ever even going to 3:05:53.640 --> 3:05:56.680 be attempted to be implemented. He shouldn't be able to 3:05:56.680 --> 3:06:00.560 do this. It's just calvin ball bullshit. But who knows? 3:06:01.240 --> 3:06:03.680 It would be China era pajamas what he's going for there? 3:06:03.720 --> 3:06:05.320 Right in China's so weapons to Ryan. 3:06:05.600 --> 3:06:09.400 Yeah, And like there's also a lot of speculation, like 3:06:09.440 --> 3:06:11.400 I think Reuters reported this that this might be a 3:06:11.440 --> 3:06:13.760 thing because there's going to be a trade summit with Beijing, 3:06:14.480 --> 3:06:18.840 but if you're a trade person in Beijing, you also 3:06:18.959 --> 3:06:22.280 know that he can't do this, so it's not real leverage. 3:06:23.440 --> 3:06:29.879 I don't know, nightmare. Let's talk about some relatively fun 3:06:30.040 --> 3:06:32.400 I guess news back at home. 3:06:33.040 --> 3:06:33.959 Interesting certainly. 3:06:34.360 --> 3:06:36.600 Yeah. So one of the things that happened this week 3:06:36.680 --> 3:06:38.840 was there was a series of elections and the result 3:06:38.879 --> 3:06:42.240 of those elections was the Republicans got absolutely hammered, like 3:06:42.360 --> 3:06:44.360 all up and down the ballot in Wisconsin. They did. 3:06:44.760 --> 3:06:48.840 They performed terribly in Georgia. So the big Democratic win 3:06:49.920 --> 3:06:52.560 was in Wisconsin. So polls had Chris Taylor, who was 3:06:52.600 --> 3:06:56.360 the Democratic candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, up by 3:06:56.360 --> 3:07:00.000 about seven or eight percent. Chris Taylor won this election 3:07:00.280 --> 3:07:04.400 by twenty oh wow. Yeah. There was also a full 3:07:04.480 --> 3:07:09.320 sweep of the whole like Moms for Liberty school board 3:07:09.520 --> 3:07:14.320 slates in a bunch of elections in very conservative Wakeisha County. 3:07:15.000 --> 3:07:17.000 The specific one where every single one of them lost 3:07:17.040 --> 3:07:19.879 and they've fully cleared out all of the monster liberty 3:07:19.879 --> 3:07:22.120 people was a very specifical one that was famous for 3:07:22.160 --> 3:07:24.000 doing a whole bunch of these right wing book bands 3:07:24.600 --> 3:07:28.120 and stuff like that, and they're they're all gone. And 3:07:28.160 --> 3:07:29.840 this is this is, you know, a continuation of a 3:07:29.879 --> 3:07:33.000 trend that we've seen over the past couple of years 3:07:33.080 --> 3:07:35.520 really were like year year and a half where all 3:07:35.520 --> 3:07:39.680 of these weird monster liberty widers just get clobbered. Now, 3:07:40.040 --> 3:07:44.240 also in that same county, in the actual like mayoral 3:07:44.360 --> 3:07:48.279 election of Wakisha, like the city of Waksha, the Democrats 3:07:48.560 --> 3:07:50.520 won that election, which they haven't done in ages. 3:07:51.120 --> 3:07:53.760 Yeah, this is like one of their biggest Republican like 3:07:54.879 --> 3:07:57.720 stronghold victories, and like they will always win this seat. 3:07:57.959 --> 3:07:59.640 Yeah, you know, and this is something that like everyone 3:07:59.640 --> 3:08:01.720 from wast also we're talking about, which is if they 3:08:01.800 --> 3:08:05.680 can't win here, they can't win Wisconsin at all. Yeah, 3:08:05.720 --> 3:08:08.080 there's there's no way, right. And again, like you know, 3:08:08.080 --> 3:08:09.800 I'm gonna get into this more in a second, but 3:08:09.879 --> 3:08:12.520 like the Democrats were projected to win this seat and 3:08:12.840 --> 3:08:16.120 this is obviously a by election, and this this is 3:08:16.160 --> 3:08:18.200 this the Supreme Court seat that they won is like 3:08:18.520 --> 3:08:20.480 them getting to five two. So it wasn't like the 3:08:20.520 --> 3:08:23.200 majority seat in the way that the last one of 3:08:23.200 --> 3:08:27.080 these elections were. But they were projected to win by 3:08:27.680 --> 3:08:31.320 like seven and they won by twenty. Yeah. Yeah, that's 3:08:31.360 --> 3:08:31.800 that's big. 3:08:32.000 --> 3:08:32.200 Wow. 3:08:32.200 --> 3:08:34.680 Which is astonishing part. 3:08:34.480 --> 3:08:37.480 Of Again you mentioned the a bunch of these, like 3:08:37.520 --> 3:08:41.000 school board elections in Wisconsin. It's not just Wisconsin, I 3:08:41.000 --> 3:08:43.560 mean in a lot of the most conservative tarot to 3:08:43.760 --> 3:08:46.440 the most conservative counties in Texas. Over the last like year, 3:08:47.040 --> 3:08:49.680 basically every school district that was taken by the Moms 3:08:49.720 --> 3:08:53.600 for Liberty types has been completely like they have been 3:08:53.640 --> 3:08:56.480 completely thrown out. And that has been happening around the country. 3:08:56.959 --> 3:08:59.000 There's a lot that people are focusing on when looking 3:08:59.040 --> 3:09:02.680 at like why are numbers so fucking dogshit for Republicans 3:09:02.720 --> 3:09:04.520 White night right now? Why are they getting beaten by 3:09:04.520 --> 3:09:07.560 such wide margins? And it's certainly way more than one 3:09:07.680 --> 3:09:10.720 thing is responsible. But I think something that has not 3:09:10.720 --> 3:09:14.560 gotten enough attention that has been dooming them Republicans electorally 3:09:15.000 --> 3:09:17.760 is that they got what they wanted in the branch 3:09:17.800 --> 3:09:20.400 of the chunk of our government. That is hardest to 3:09:20.480 --> 3:09:23.400 ignore for the average American, which is like what's happening 3:09:23.400 --> 3:09:26.279 to their kids in schools, And a bunch of regular 3:09:26.320 --> 3:09:28.920 people who were not all that political saw that, like 3:09:29.000 --> 3:09:31.360 my kid can't like check books out any the fuck 3:09:31.440 --> 3:09:32.480 is happening here? 3:09:32.800 --> 3:09:34.400 And they went crazy. 3:09:34.280 --> 3:09:37.760 They not crazy, They got really pissed off, rightfully, so, 3:09:37.840 --> 3:09:39.800 and I think this is going My hope is that 3:09:39.840 --> 3:09:43.480 this turns out to be one of their worst strategic 3:09:43.600 --> 3:09:46.280 missteps in this period of time, is their belief that 3:09:46.480 --> 3:09:49.720 we can just go fucking ape shit on schools and 3:09:49.760 --> 3:09:50.400 no one will care. 3:09:50.840 --> 3:09:54.200 Yeah. Well, and this brings me back to something I've 3:09:54.240 --> 3:09:57.200 been talking about for a while, which is that, so, like, 3:09:57.600 --> 3:09:59.560 what of the other results that we're sort of looking 3:09:59.600 --> 3:10:02.520 at here. So, there was an election in Georgia in 3:10:02.560 --> 3:10:04.920 this like as a Stev's special election for the seat 3:10:04.959 --> 3:10:07.400 that was Mergory Taylor Green's old district. This is like 3:10:08.200 --> 3:10:11.039 one of the most unhinged Republican districts in the entire country. 3:10:11.080 --> 3:10:14.320 Trump won it by forty and the Republican Clay Fuller, 3:10:14.400 --> 3:10:17.199 did win, but he only he won by twelve points 3:10:18.280 --> 3:10:21.240 in a county that Trump carried by forty. Yeah. Yeah, 3:10:21.400 --> 3:10:23.360 that's like it's like it's like a twenty eight point shit. 3:10:23.520 --> 3:10:28.080 Yeah right, it's it's unbelievable. Now, obviously they didn't win here, 3:10:28.160 --> 3:10:30.600 but there's been a lot of stuff about how, okay, 3:10:30.640 --> 3:10:33.760 well this is just because democrats. Democrats do better among 3:10:33.800 --> 3:10:35.920 high information voters. Those are the people who vote in 3:10:35.959 --> 3:10:38.560 these off cycle elections that aren't during the normal election cycle. 3:10:38.959 --> 3:10:41.040 Blah blah blah. There's a lot of this kind of stuff. 3:10:41.440 --> 3:10:43.600 That's a kind of stuff that puts you ahead, as 3:10:43.640 --> 3:10:46.440 as the polls were showing in Wisconsin, that puts you 3:10:46.480 --> 3:10:49.400 ahead by like seven That does not explain a thirteen 3:10:49.520 --> 3:10:53.200 percent over performance. Yeah, yeah, right. And I think what 3:10:53.280 --> 3:10:55.200 is happening here is something I've said consistently, and this 3:10:55.240 --> 3:10:57.840 is something that I think Robert is sort of explaining 3:10:57.879 --> 3:11:00.400 why this is happening, is that polars are still using 3:11:01.000 --> 3:11:04.520 they're still using as as their basis for what they 3:11:04.560 --> 3:11:06.920 assume the electure is going to be. They're using the 3:11:07.000 --> 3:11:09.279 data from the electorate from the twenty twenty four election, 3:11:09.800 --> 3:11:12.600 because that's that's the standard practice, right, you use as 3:11:12.640 --> 3:11:15.439 a sample, you know, and you make some like adjustments 3:11:15.480 --> 3:11:16.959 because it's a by election and stuff like that. But 3:11:17.040 --> 3:11:19.720 like they're using as as a sample base of voters 3:11:19.800 --> 3:11:22.440 the people from twenty twenty four, and that electorate does 3:11:22.480 --> 3:11:25.560 not exist anymore because it's been completely destroyed. Right, all 3:11:25.560 --> 3:11:27.600 of these people have suddenly been mobilized, Like the whole 3:11:27.600 --> 3:11:31.920 city of Minneapolis has been like turned into this like weird. 3:11:32.240 --> 3:11:34.240 I don't know. I mean that's not negative. It's like 3:11:34.440 --> 3:11:36.560 there's like Minneapolis has had a level of mobilization that 3:11:36.640 --> 3:11:40.120 is like possibly has never been seen before in US history. 3:11:40.640 --> 3:11:44.640 All of these like people who had been you know, 3:11:44.760 --> 3:11:46.760 just like not political at all. And this is the 3:11:46.760 --> 3:11:48.200 other thing with like the school board election, is that 3:11:48.200 --> 3:11:51.160 these are mostly people who were not political people at all, 3:11:51.200 --> 3:11:53.520 who just swept in because they like their school's got 3:11:53.520 --> 3:11:56.400 fucked with. The entire electorate has changed. 3:11:56.560 --> 3:11:58.440 It's just there's like a deep fluidity here. Right, There's 3:11:58.440 --> 3:12:01.240 a lot of people who supported Trump because of economic 3:12:01.240 --> 3:12:05.360 conditions which were blamed on the Democrats, and they moved 3:12:05.360 --> 3:12:07.640 for Trump, and there was a lot of these same 3:12:07.680 --> 3:12:11.200 people are not like Trump or Republican loyalists. They're they're 3:12:11.200 --> 3:12:14.200 reacting to the economic conditions and the messaging from each party. 3:12:14.920 --> 3:12:17.360 And this is reflected in you know, the number of 3:12:17.400 --> 3:12:19.760 Trump's Zorn voters, even the number of people who vote 3:12:19.800 --> 3:12:21.800 Trump and AOC in New York. 3:12:21.920 --> 3:12:22.080 Right. 3:12:22.280 --> 3:12:25.240 Yeah, they're not like mega loyalists, right, But but it's 3:12:25.280 --> 3:12:28.440 showing how there is a big fluidity among among the 3:12:28.440 --> 3:12:30.440 types of people that do decide elections. 3:12:31.000 --> 3:12:33.240 Yeah, but then there's all. There's also and this is 3:12:33.240 --> 3:12:35.480 I think the the other side of this too, right, 3:12:35.959 --> 3:12:39.280 is that there's once people who haven't voted, just didn't 3:12:39.280 --> 3:12:41.600 give a shit at all, and those people are suddenly 3:12:41.640 --> 3:12:44.360 being mobilized, and this is turning into like the Democrats 3:12:44.400 --> 3:12:46.800 are like winning a whole bunch of like rural counties 3:12:47.080 --> 3:12:50.240 in these elections. Right, yeah, yeah, And now I think 3:12:50.280 --> 3:12:52.040 the last thing I want to talk about in sort 3:12:52.040 --> 3:12:55.480 of this kind of section of everybody hates the Republicans 3:12:55.680 --> 3:12:59.440 is that the issues in Insights CPP survey for April 3:12:59.480 --> 3:13:03.199 shows Trump with a thirty nine percent approval rating. This poll, 3:13:03.360 --> 3:13:07.360 which is done a bunch of times every year, they 3:13:07.400 --> 3:13:09.240 give they give like a bunch of topics where they 3:13:09.240 --> 3:13:11.840 give a through F rankings from like immigration, to the 3:13:11.879 --> 3:13:15.280 economy to like the wars in Iran Ukraine and like 3:13:15.280 --> 3:13:18.119 a plarality of the votes were an F on every single. 3:13:17.840 --> 3:13:19.400 One, even immigration. 3:13:19.800 --> 3:13:22.600 Immigration was the one that was kind of close, okay, 3:13:22.600 --> 3:13:25.520 between that and like a every single other one was 3:13:25.720 --> 3:13:31.000 down double digits. Okay. If you look at like CDF 3:13:31.280 --> 3:13:33.960 versus like AB or if you like ignore c right, 3:13:33.959 --> 3:13:36.640 it's so much more in the category of like d's 3:13:36.680 --> 3:13:37.320 and f's. 3:13:37.360 --> 3:13:38.680 On the negative side in general. 3:13:38.760 --> 3:13:42.600 Yeah, yeah, like this is for every single issue. I'm 3:13:42.840 --> 3:13:45.200 guessing it's kind of a binary distribution, right, like a 3:13:45.200 --> 3:13:47.080 lot of a's or a lot of f's and not much. 3:13:47.320 --> 3:13:50.720 There's actually a surprising number of b's, but that's interesting. Yeah, 3:13:51.000 --> 3:13:53.840 and like a decent number of d's. But yeah, it 3:13:53.879 --> 3:13:55.960 was like mostly f's and then everything else is kind 3:13:55.959 --> 3:13:58.200 of spread up between other ones. I mean, all of 3:13:58.200 --> 3:14:01.039 this is before the like I'm a civil stationable die tonight. 3:14:00.879 --> 3:14:05.600 Stuff, which which did cause negative reactions from people in 3:14:06.200 --> 3:14:09.720 the in the conservative base. Yeah, and people voting in 3:14:09.800 --> 3:14:13.640 Georgia and and Wisconsin. I want to play this clip here. 3:14:14.160 --> 3:14:18.360 This was a clip from from from Georgia of a 3:14:18.400 --> 3:14:24.080 Georgia voter who was interviewed on election day. 3:14:25.160 --> 3:14:30.560 It's giving war crime. You can't do that. We don't 3:14:30.959 --> 3:14:35.520 just annihilate people because we can and you know, make 3:14:35.560 --> 3:14:38.600 a grab for the money and the old and that's 3:14:38.640 --> 3:14:41.680 what we've done in Venezuela, and that's what we're doing 3:14:41.720 --> 3:14:42.320 in Orion. 3:14:42.760 --> 3:14:44.039 It's giving war crime. 3:14:44.200 --> 3:14:45.520 It's giving war crime. 3:14:45.760 --> 3:14:46.400 I need to take it. 3:14:46.720 --> 3:14:49.199 This is this is it's beautiful positive. 3:14:49.280 --> 3:14:52.520 Yes, that's message and the Democrats to come up with 3:14:52.600 --> 3:14:54.320 on this. 3:14:54.320 --> 3:14:55.680 This is this is like a well then in her 3:14:55.720 --> 3:15:00.600 thirties or forties holding holding a kid at nine. This 3:15:00.760 --> 3:15:03.520 broadcast was at nine thirty three am in Rome, Georgia, 3:15:03.600 --> 3:15:07.640 on election day. Yep, it is it's giving war crime. 3:15:08.400 --> 3:15:10.160 Yeah. And you know, if you look at that, like 3:15:10.200 --> 3:15:13.000 the yug of Economist poll, which is from like April first, 3:15:13.840 --> 3:15:16.400 but like even at April first, he had just an 3:15:16.480 --> 3:15:20.680 atrocious thirty five percent approval rating, which is that's like 3:15:20.800 --> 3:15:24.440 that's like end of the Bush administration shit. All of this. 3:15:24.560 --> 3:15:27.879 The important part of this is that like the Democrats 3:15:27.920 --> 3:15:30.720 are still really historically unpopular right now because everyone's piss 3:15:30.720 --> 3:15:33.720 at them for not doing anything, but the actual mass 3:15:33.760 --> 3:15:36.480 of people in this country fucking hate all of this. 3:15:36.480 --> 3:15:39.880 They're pissed off at everything that is happening. Everything you 3:15:39.920 --> 3:15:42.520 ask about that Trump is doing they are fucking angry about. 3:15:43.160 --> 3:15:46.039 And you know, this is this is this is the 3:15:46.160 --> 3:15:48.879 kind of anger and the kind of just generalized rays 3:15:48.920 --> 3:15:53.600 that I think there's no really good way to measure 3:15:53.760 --> 3:15:57.800 outside of the tools that we've developed for elections, or 3:15:57.840 --> 3:15:59.600 in terms of just like you know, sometimes you get 3:15:59.600 --> 3:16:04.720 treatments like this anger like is the defining thing of 3:16:04.760 --> 3:16:07.680 the United States right now. So everybody's hissed the fuck 3:16:07.720 --> 3:16:11.640 off about this, and yeah, and every opportunity they get 3:16:11.640 --> 3:16:15.040 to express that this shit fucking sucks, they do. This 3:16:15.080 --> 3:16:18.400 is what American politics is, even as everything is unbelievably 3:16:18.440 --> 3:16:21.080 hideously bleak from all of the shit that people are doing. 3:16:22.160 --> 3:16:24.440 Speaking of people who are pissed off, there's one final 3:16:24.480 --> 3:16:26.560 story that I'll go through pretty quick before we close 3:16:26.680 --> 3:16:31.240 this episode. Last Wednesday, to celebrate April Fool's Day, Trump 3:16:31.320 --> 3:16:35.520 fired Pam Bondi as Attorney General. Trump told Bondi about 3:16:35.560 --> 3:16:37.840 his plan to fire her while in the car together 3:16:38.040 --> 3:16:42.400 to watch the Supreme Court oral arguments on birthright citizenship. 3:16:42.560 --> 3:16:46.520 Why Jesus, there's video of it. There's video of it. 3:16:46.520 --> 3:16:50.480 It's amazing, like credit to Fox, but they got a 3:16:50.560 --> 3:16:52.920 shot of them in the limo and Trump is clearly 3:16:53.000 --> 3:16:55.560 telling her, and it's when we know he was telling her. 3:16:55.640 --> 3:16:59.039 It's an amazing little artifact. All you can make out 3:16:59.160 --> 3:17:01.600 is their faces kind of and their body language. But 3:17:01.640 --> 3:17:03.200 it rips it's so funny. 3:17:03.640 --> 3:17:05.920 Bondi tried to convince Trump to let her stay on 3:17:06.080 --> 3:17:09.800 till at least summer, but to no avail. Trump appointed 3:17:09.879 --> 3:17:13.200 Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche to serve as acting Attorney 3:17:13.240 --> 3:17:18.119 General until the President nominates a full replacement. On Tuesday, 3:17:18.160 --> 3:17:22.600 Blanche said, quote nobody has any idea unquote why Bondi 3:17:22.760 --> 3:17:25.960 was fired except for President Trump. Those sources close to 3:17:25.959 --> 3:17:28.440 the White House have told multiple outlets that Trump had 3:17:28.440 --> 3:17:32.200 a growing frustration with Bondi for a while, especially related 3:17:32.200 --> 3:17:35.880 to her failure to successfully prosecute certain political enemies and 3:17:35.959 --> 3:17:39.160 the fallout from her handling of the Epstein files. Environmental 3:17:39.160 --> 3:17:43.240 Protection Agency Administrator Lee Zelden has been floated as a 3:17:43.280 --> 3:17:47.520 prospective replacement for Attorney General. At the EPA, Zelden has 3:17:47.600 --> 3:17:50.560 led efforts to roll back environmental regulations and climate protections 3:17:51.120 --> 3:17:56.560 related to in endangered species, wetlands, and emissions before working 3:17:56.600 --> 3:17:59.480 in the second Trump administration. Zelden lost the race for 3:17:59.560 --> 3:18:02.840 New York governor to Kathy Hochel by seven percentage points, 3:18:03.160 --> 3:18:06.400 a relatively close race for New York. Zelden is a 3:18:06.440 --> 3:18:10.360 Trump loyalist, fought against the presidents to impeachments while in 3:18:10.400 --> 3:18:14.039 Congress and refused to certify the twenty twenty election results. 3:18:14.240 --> 3:18:18.119 Great Zelden's a retired US Army lieutenant colonel who served 3:18:18.160 --> 3:18:20.760 four years in active duty as a military intelligence officer, 3:18:21.160 --> 3:18:25.240 federal prosecutor, and military magistrate, and twousand and six was 3:18:25.280 --> 3:18:29.640 deployed with the eighty second Airborne Division during Operation Iraqi Freedom. 3:18:29.840 --> 3:18:33.560 Wait, so he's a troop cop, military magistrate, troop judge. 3:18:33.680 --> 3:18:35.600 He's he's served in a few roles. 3:18:35.760 --> 3:18:37.480 Yeah, that's troop cop. Shit. 3:18:37.760 --> 3:18:40.279 He served as a prosecutor and a judge. 3:18:40.760 --> 3:18:44.640 They hated and reviled troop cop. He looks like maybe 3:18:44.680 --> 3:18:46.680 he at some point went to law school there, right. 3:18:46.879 --> 3:18:49.720 He went to law school in New York, either during 3:18:49.720 --> 3:18:51.480 that time or beforehand. It all kind of takes place 3:18:51.520 --> 3:18:53.879 around because I think he got out of law school 3:18:53.879 --> 3:18:55.720 around thousand and four. At at the time he was 3:18:55.760 --> 3:18:58.320 the youngest person to finish law school in New York. 3:18:58.480 --> 3:19:01.800 Oh wow, he was in his early twenty After he 3:19:01.879 --> 3:19:04.640 got out of the military or out of active duty, 3:19:05.240 --> 3:19:08.440 he briefly served as an attorney for the Port Authority 3:19:08.480 --> 3:19:10.800 of New York and New Jersey and also private practice 3:19:10.840 --> 3:19:12.280 for a little bit before he went into the State 3:19:12.280 --> 3:19:16.200 Senate and then eventually US Congress. Now before Bondie's firing, 3:19:16.840 --> 3:19:18.920 Pambondi was scheduled to testify in front of the House 3:19:18.920 --> 3:19:22.760 Oversight Committee about the Epstein files on April fourteenth. Now, 3:19:22.840 --> 3:19:25.440 Democrats on the committee still want her to testify, as 3:19:25.480 --> 3:19:29.160 she holds relevant knowledge, but on Wednesday morning, the Justice 3:19:29.160 --> 3:19:31.840 Department released a statement saying Bondi would not appear at 3:19:31.840 --> 3:19:34.480 the hearing on the fourteenth quote since she is no 3:19:34.560 --> 3:19:37.680 longer Attorney General and was subpoenaed in her capacity as 3:19:37.680 --> 3:19:41.600 attorney general unquote. This is a little bit untrue. She 3:19:41.720 --> 3:19:44.360 was not subpoenaed by her title as Attorney General. She 3:19:44.400 --> 3:19:47.880 was subpoenaed by name as Pam Bondi. Now Oversite Commitee 3:19:47.920 --> 3:19:50.400 Democrats have responded by saying if Bonnie does not comply 3:19:50.520 --> 3:19:53.480 with the bipartisan subpoena addressed to her by name, they 3:19:53.520 --> 3:19:58.400 will quote begin contempt charges unquote. Republican Nancy Mace has said, 3:19:58.480 --> 3:20:02.360 quote Pambondi cannot ass gape accountability simply because she no 3:20:02.400 --> 3:20:04.920 longer holds the office of Attorney General. Our motion to 3:20:04.920 --> 3:20:07.920 subpoena pan Bondy, which was passed by the overst Committee, 3:20:07.959 --> 3:20:10.560 was for a Bondi by name, not by title. She 3:20:10.640 --> 3:20:13.640 will still have to appear before the Oversight Committee for 3:20:13.640 --> 3:20:16.480 a sworn deposition. The American people deserve answers, and we 3:20:16.560 --> 3:20:19.160 expect her to appear as soon as a new date 3:20:19.240 --> 3:20:22.560 is set unquote. So it appears they will try to 3:20:22.600 --> 3:20:26.880 reschedule her for a new date. Bondie's firing is interesting 3:20:26.920 --> 3:20:30.880 in the context of Christy Nomes firing, as for the 3:20:30.879 --> 3:20:33.320 first year or so of Trump's second term, he really 3:20:33.400 --> 3:20:35.400 resisted making changes to his cabinet. 3:20:35.440 --> 3:20:35.560 Right. 3:20:35.600 --> 3:20:38.000 These these sorts of frequent changes were a hallmark of 3:20:38.200 --> 3:20:40.560 first of his first term. Yeah, and for the start 3:20:40.560 --> 3:20:43.400 of his second he seemed to not want to do 3:20:43.440 --> 3:20:46.160 that and instead got like his ranks of loyalists that 3:20:46.200 --> 3:20:49.720 he was going to work with. But since Christi Nomes firing, 3:20:49.800 --> 3:20:53.360 that has clearly changed, and this is prompted speculation about 3:20:53.360 --> 3:20:57.560 who could be next, from people like Tulci Gabbard to 3:20:57.760 --> 3:21:01.160 Cash Bettel or Pete Haig Seth. Think Gabbard is is 3:21:01.200 --> 3:21:04.440 certainly certainly one of one of the people. If I 3:21:04.520 --> 3:21:05.959 was one of these three, I would I would be 3:21:06.000 --> 3:21:08.760 most nervous if I was Gabbard. Hotel's an odd is 3:21:08.760 --> 3:21:10.959 an odd character. I'm really am not sure what's in 3:21:10.959 --> 3:21:15.039 the future for him a podcast, and I think that 3:21:15.320 --> 3:21:18.600 what happens eventually in Iran will determine what goes on 3:21:18.640 --> 3:21:19.240 with HeiG Seth. 3:21:19.920 --> 3:21:22.000 There have been rumors that some of the reason that 3:21:22.080 --> 3:21:24.520 heg Seth has been sort of purging high command in 3:21:24.560 --> 3:21:27.760 the military is that he has concerned that those people 3:21:27.800 --> 3:21:33.599 would be his replacements, like alternates for him sec death. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 3:21:33.760 --> 3:21:37.400 Ptel was under more heat. I feel like during following 3:21:37.400 --> 3:21:40.560 the shooting of Charlie kirk Great the assassination and that 3:21:40.640 --> 3:21:42.600 their failure to find the assassin for some time. 3:21:43.280 --> 3:21:46.160 Yeah, and his and his UH plane tickets and his 3:21:46.360 --> 3:21:47.519 trips with his girlfriends. 3:21:47.720 --> 3:21:49.920 Yeah, the failure with Savannah Guthrie too. 3:21:50.400 --> 3:21:50.640 Yeah. 3:21:50.720 --> 3:21:52.800 Trump Trump did not like that clip of him in 3:21:52.879 --> 3:21:54.160 the hockey locker room. 3:21:54.720 --> 3:21:56.720 H yeah, yeah. There have been quite a few. Now 3:21:56.720 --> 3:21:57.520 you mentioned them. 3:21:57.959 --> 3:22:00.920 Before we go, we should mention there's bill about a 3:22:00.959 --> 3:22:04.520 week left of Webby voting. 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