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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to it could happen hear a podcast about unions

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Speaker 3: falling apart and in this case, how they're not being

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Speaker 3: put back together again. I am your host, Bio Wong,

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Speaker 3: and today we are telling a somewhat unusual story for

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Speaker 3: this show. It's usual in the sense that it's a

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Speaker 3: story about, you know, the replacement of democracy with bureaucracy.

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Speaker 3: If like the death spiral of business union, of unionism,

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Speaker 3: it's a story it's also as much about the defeat

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Speaker 3: of the worker's movement as it is like LaVar Jackson's

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Speaker 3: counting stats, a thing that it also bizarrely is about.

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Speaker 3: And this is this is the story of the crisis

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Speaker 3: of the NFL Players Association, which is the NFL's union,

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Speaker 3: and it is so unhinged that the only way that

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Speaker 3: this could actually be talked about reasonably is to bring

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Speaker 3: in someone who knows ball, and that is Charles McDonald

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Speaker 3: of Yahoo Sports and the Wonderful Football three o one podcast.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. This is going to be a trip.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. I've listened to a few episodes,

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Speaker 4: so I was excited, and you asked me to come on.

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Speaker 4: Love your work, and yeah, this is this is gonna

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Speaker 4: be a good rant because and not even really a

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Speaker 4: rant because because honestly, like when you like when you

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Speaker 4: start the Puel is Back, it is really like a

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Speaker 4: textbook case study from what we know on like just

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Speaker 4: straight up organizational decay. Yeah, like you get such a

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Speaker 4: clear picture on how just really a few people, in

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Speaker 4: this case, thirty two NFL owners can just completely dictate

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Speaker 4: the life of you know, thousands of people who are

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Speaker 4: literally really sacrificing their bodies to try and you know,

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Speaker 4: escape whatever poverty they come from in their in their

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Speaker 4: earlier life. So it's, uh, it's fascinating, it's sad. I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is one of those areas that I have obviously

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Speaker 4: because it's my it's my job. But you just like

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Speaker 4: extreme cognitive dissonance sometimes. Like I love football, you know,

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Speaker 4: I played from the time ill seven through college. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: like I do this work. It's kind of giving me

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Speaker 4: like everything, and then you have to deal with just

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Speaker 4: so much bad stuff that comes with me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I remember like covering the Colin Kaepernick season,

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Speaker 4: which was ten years ago as of this god right,

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Speaker 4: ten years ago, yeah, and just like seeing how alienating

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Speaker 4: that was. Just like just writing like a column saying, hey,

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Speaker 4: you know, Washington, like they should work Colin Kaepernick out

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Speaker 4: because they don't have a quarterback and this guy is

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Speaker 4: just a startable quarterback. And you would get like hate

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Speaker 4: mail over that stuff. But I'm still tuned every Sunday,

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Speaker 4: you know, Lamar Jackson stuff. I was on the front

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Speaker 4: lines for that, but still tuning in to get my

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Speaker 4: racest slop every Sunday.

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Speaker 3: It's a fundamental issue here is people will still do

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Speaker 3: it immediately. I am mildly proud that I wasn't watching

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Speaker 3: that era, but I wasn't watching that era specifically because

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Speaker 3: the Seahawks loss Super Bolts to the Patriots, and then

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Speaker 3: I was like I'm fucking out after like eight years.

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Speaker 4: Well I've been watching this stuff my whole life. Like

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Speaker 4: I remember watching like college football with like my dad

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Speaker 4: and his friends when I was like five and six

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Speaker 4: years Old's like, I like, legit just don't know anything

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Speaker 4: else to a degree, like I had to use this

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Speaker 4: sport as like my vehicle to kind of explore the

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Speaker 4: rest of the world, like once I got out of college,

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Speaker 4: just trying to figure my shit out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think we have a good combination here

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Speaker 3: to talk about this because you come at this from

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Speaker 3: the football angle and then exploring out of the like, oh,

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Speaker 3: by god, this is so unhinged. Everything is broken. And

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Speaker 3: then I come at this kind of from the opposite direction,

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Speaker 3: which is one of the things that's been really frustrating

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Speaker 3: about the coverage of this is that like, like there's

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Speaker 3: lots of very good coverage. Pubble Tory done a lot

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Speaker 3: of very good work about this, and it's like the

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Speaker 3: guy who kind of instigated the whole.

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Speaker 4: Like instigators kind of put in it is put in

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Speaker 4: it lightly.

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Speaker 5: I mean he got the union president fired basically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he got the union president fired after it was

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Speaker 3: revealed that he was using union money to go to

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Speaker 3: strip clubs.

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Speaker 6: It's like.

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Speaker 5: That's like the tail end of this story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like the end of it. That's where it's going, right.

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Speaker 3: But like, the thing that's been frustrating to me about

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Speaker 3: this is like the people covering this, and people have

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Speaker 3: done a lot of good work. Is there not people

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Speaker 3: who cover unions at all? Yeah, And like that's like

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Speaker 3: what I do, right, And like I don't know, like

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Speaker 3: I think as much as this episode is going to

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Speaker 3: be us screaming about this union doing unhinged shit, like

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Speaker 3: we're obviously like pro union. Like I had my union

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Speaker 3: that I organized on by show to talk about our

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Speaker 3: god dract against you.

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Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I was member of the first box

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Speaker 4: union that yeah, god damn that was almost ten years.

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Speaker 3: Ago now is christ so old?

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Speaker 4: And look like I believe in this stuff, like I like,

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Speaker 4: with the stroke of a pen, not to put it

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Speaker 4: that simplically because obviously a lot of fight went to it,

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Speaker 4: but with a struggle with pen, like I was able

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Speaker 4: to live in DC after being there he broke, you know,

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Speaker 4: and it's crazy like my salary went up to Liverpool

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Speaker 4: age and nothing.

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Speaker 5: Died yep, right, you know, no one died.

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Speaker 4: It was it was it was business as usual, honestly,

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Speaker 4: Like nothing was weird. So obviously people who listen to

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Speaker 4: the show, like, you know that these people with the

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Speaker 4: money like they're out to get us obviously for their

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Speaker 4: own game. And it's so just brazenly clear through like

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Speaker 4: this union story, especially through the past twenty years, which

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Speaker 4: is where I think you kind of have to start it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, just systematically stripped down. And the one thing

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Speaker 4: that even Pablo on his most recent episode, because he

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Speaker 4: talked about it last week because J. C.

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Speaker 5: Tretter was elected director.

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Speaker 3: One of the villains of this story power right.

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Speaker 4: And and you know, one thing about like Poplo and

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Speaker 4: Mike Florio, who have really been on this more than

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Speaker 4: like any other national journalist, is like, yeah, we still

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Speaker 4: don't know a big component of like the why and

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Speaker 4: the how this is happening, because you know, well, we

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Speaker 4: gotta get into because basically it feels like there's two

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Speaker 4: two or three guys kind of acting as liaisons to

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Speaker 4: the owner while also trying to respect and you know,

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Speaker 4: run the union, which are obviously just two completely incompatible

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Speaker 4: ideologies when you're trying to work that out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's actually a way to start talking

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Speaker 3: about this kind of going back to there there used

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Speaker 3: to be a time when the NFL union would go

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Speaker 3: on strike, like they did pickets, like they fought scabs

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Speaker 3: outside of the gates of football stadium.

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Speaker 7: This was a thing that happened like regularly.

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Speaker 3: Like there's there's a whole bunch of stories of like

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Speaker 3: umw A guys and like guys from like the auto unions,

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Speaker 3: like on these picket lights with the NFL players and

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Speaker 3: you know, like one of one of the sort of

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Speaker 3: upshots of this God, Okay, that's a terrible punt, I'm

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Speaker 3: realizing now because this guy, Okay.

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Speaker 5: We gotta talk about Gene, you know, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, one of one of the guys who led

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Speaker 3: this union was Gene Upshaw, who was a player for

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Speaker 3: a long time and then was like ran the union

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Speaker 3: for most of its history. And he's you know, he's

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Speaker 3: running an actual union, Like they go on strike, they organize,

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Speaker 3: they like do ship and you know, Jane like over

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Speaker 3: the course of this runs into like they start losing stripes,

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Speaker 3: which is just like a nightmare, and then he just

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Speaker 3: like dies in two thousand and eight, like this is

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Speaker 3: really horrible cancer. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So so like not only like like Jane, Jane was

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Speaker 4: a hall of fame off intive Lineman. Yeah, Like like

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Speaker 4: when you think of the Raiders in the in the past,

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Speaker 4: like he was kind of like this start of that era.

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Speaker 4: The only basically the only area where we still think

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Speaker 4: of the Raiders is like, you know, an entity that

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Speaker 4: should be respected, right, right, not a joke because because

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Speaker 4: you know, it was.

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Speaker 5: A different time in the league.

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Speaker 4: Like especially when we see what the Seahawks sale ends

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Speaker 4: up looking like, and we've seen like the Broncos and

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Speaker 4: the Commanders get sold within the past decade.

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Speaker 5: These teams are now being run by people who don't

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Speaker 5: have football backgrounds.

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Speaker 4: Like when you think of you know, even even even

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Speaker 4: someone as despicable as Jerry Jones, like you can't you

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Speaker 4: can't doubt at his heart that you know, he loves

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Speaker 4: this sport and will be an advocate to the sport,

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Speaker 4: even in ways that that could be harmful to the

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Speaker 4: sport at times. But now we we kind of have

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Speaker 4: like this influx of people who don't have football backgrounds,

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Speaker 4: but they have the capital to kind of get in

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Speaker 4: and that that has also been a shift, I think

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Speaker 4: just from an ownership perspective over the last few years.

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Speaker 4: But when you look at Gene was coming out as

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Speaker 4: a player after he retired, and think in the early

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Speaker 4: eighties he kind of set the standard for you know,

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Speaker 4: he wasted He was elected executive director of the union

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Speaker 4: I think in the eighties and he held that position

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Speaker 4: until he died in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, he died in office.

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Speaker 4: That's a long time and and it's a lot of trust.

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Speaker 4: And also I think Gene kind of solidified the idea,

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Speaker 4: which is important now that players should run this union,

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Speaker 4: which I agree with. You know, yeah, that's what the

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Speaker 4: union is, right, That's that's what the union is. And

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Speaker 4: I would say even just like someone who played football byself,

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Speaker 4: like it's kind of a cult when you're in there

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Speaker 4: and you don't really really trust the outsiders to understand

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Speaker 4: like what is going on here on a day to

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Speaker 4: day basis. And also when you look at like the

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Speaker 4: start of this union back in the fifties, training camp

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Speaker 4: used to be free for the owners. They didn't get

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Speaker 4: for training camp or preseason games they played. They played

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Speaker 4: six free preseason games. Yeah, and didn't get paid for

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Speaker 4: training camp.

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Speaker 3: Unreal, unreal, And like you can like you can get serious,

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Speaker 3: like people every single year, get really really seriously injured

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Speaker 3: like it trading camp and in preseason games.

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Speaker 4: And there was no free agency, right, so like the

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Speaker 4: team that drafted you, like they own you until you

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Speaker 4: know you're ready to call it quit till they trade

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Speaker 4: you somewhere else where they cut you and you kind

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Speaker 4: of got to figure it out. But like the idea

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Speaker 4: that you could just like have this agency and leave

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Speaker 4: and your contract expires you can go side with someone else,

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Speaker 4: that was not a thing. So obviously, when when you

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Speaker 4: think about where football is now, like what I tell

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Speaker 4: people is like watch when they ask, like why should

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Speaker 4: I care about this union? Okay, think about how bad

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Speaker 4: it is now? It can get worse. It was worse, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it was worse. It was significantly worse. But you know

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Speaker 4: you have like this idea that and it's a correct

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Speaker 4: idea because the players are the basis of it that

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Speaker 4: this person in charge of the union needs to.

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Speaker 5: Be a player.

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Speaker 4: And Gene, like coming from his background with the Raiders,

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Speaker 4: we were talking about proud football organization, Like the very

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Speaker 4: like material basis of being an NFL player was extremely

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Speaker 4: important to Gene. So you know, up until he passed

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Speaker 4: away in two thousand and eight, I mean he is

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Speaker 4: you know, he's, like you said, he's leading strikes. He's

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Speaker 4: fighting for more revenue, he's fighting for you know, more

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Speaker 4: benefits on the back end after guys retire, and it

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Speaker 4: kind of culminates in the two thousand and six CBA.

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Speaker 4: I would say, this is kind of like the Empire

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Speaker 4: strikes back moment for the owners because in two thousand

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Speaker 4: and six, the players in the owners, they signed a

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Speaker 4: CBA that on the surface granted the players a sixty

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Speaker 4: percent sixty percent revenue share against the owners forty percent.

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Speaker 4: When you start actually digging through the numbers.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, that's not fuck like, it was fake.

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Speaker 4: It was fake, right, So I'll say this, it was

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Speaker 4: fake in the sense that there was something called like

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Speaker 4: a revenue credit or a revenue a tax or something

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Speaker 4: that the owners took off of the pie before it

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Speaker 4: went down to like the sixty forty split, right, So

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Speaker 4: you know, and it's it started, you know in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and six, like I think the first time they

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Speaker 4: cut it it was like, you know, eight hundred billion

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Speaker 4: dollars and then you know, within two years they were

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Speaker 4: taking well over a billion dollars before it got passed

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Speaker 4: down onto the player. So you know, the players, they

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Speaker 4: got sixty percent of the total revenue. But by the

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Speaker 4: time you know that, they the owners took a second

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Speaker 4: look at that CBA and they used their opt out

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Speaker 4: clause in two thousand and eight. It was functionally like

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Speaker 4: a fifty one to fifty two percent split in favor

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Speaker 4: of the players, which the owners deemed completely unacceptable. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 4: Like and it's so funny because like this is this

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Speaker 4: is like the first part like where you start to see, like,

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Speaker 4: at least in this era of football, you get to

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Speaker 4: see how greedy these people are, right where you're already

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Speaker 4: taking a top off of like this quote unquote total

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Speaker 4: revenue and then you're you're pulling the clause in two

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Speaker 4: years to get out of this. So in two thousand

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Speaker 4: and eight, the owners say, we are going to get

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Speaker 4: out of this, and now the CBA instead of like

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Speaker 4: the ten year clause is going to expire at the

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Speaker 4: end of the twenty ten season, so they had two

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Speaker 4: seasons to kind of figure out what was going to

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Speaker 4: happen next. But unfortunately, in two thousand and eight, Gene

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Speaker 4: Upshaw gets pancreatic cancer and I honestly just like just

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Speaker 4: deteriors pretty quickly and passes away right before the season. So, hey,

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Speaker 4: listeners of this podcast probably know what do billionaires do

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Speaker 4: when they see a power vacuum at the top of

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Speaker 4: their labor force that there are actively fighting against. They

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Speaker 4: pounced and you have this vacuum of leadership. And then

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Speaker 4: Damor Smith gets voted the executive director of the NFLPA

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Speaker 4: and the owners. At the end of the twenty ten season,

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Speaker 4: they locked out the players, and that's where things really

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Speaker 4: starting to hear. You're dealing with that amount of agreed

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Speaker 4: where they're already taken off the top, and then they

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Speaker 4: say that's not enough, so we're gonna rip up the CBA.

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Speaker 4: And the funny part was the twenty ten season like

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Speaker 4: the last year of like the ripped up CBA, since

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Speaker 4: they didn't have an agreement on the next year. There

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Speaker 4: was no salary cap toward the twenty ten season, and

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Speaker 4: Jerry Jones, owner of the Taboys, and Dan Snyder, owner

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Speaker 4: of the Washington football team.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, what are the worst people ever?

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Speaker 7: By the way, this is it, We don't time to

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Speaker 7: do this right up for like.

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Speaker 5: One of the worst people ever.

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Speaker 4: So you're like, if you play Madden before, you know

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Speaker 4: sometimes you might turn off the salary cap and what

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Speaker 4: do you do you spend And because Jerry has always

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Speaker 4: been like, it's my money. Yeah, I'm gonna spend as

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Speaker 4: much of it as i want to if I please,

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Speaker 4: like within the rule as the salary cap, no salary cap,

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Speaker 4: Jerry's gonna spend. And the other owners punish those two

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Speaker 4: with fines after the season, yeah, for spending recklessly. That's

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Speaker 4: how committed they are to like this consolidation of power.

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Speaker 4: They will publish each other over it.

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Speaker 3: Which which by the way, is unhinged because like so

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Speaker 3: one of the fundamental like issues of the NFL is

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Speaker 3: that it is a monopoly. Yes, Now, the way they

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Speaker 3: get around this is a they have the union and

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Speaker 3: be the teams are supposed to be quote unquote competing

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Speaker 3: with each other and they are not supposed to quote

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Speaker 3: unquote collude against the players. And it's like, okay, you

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Speaker 3: you find guys for paying people.

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Speaker 5: Like right, like you find each other.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, which is like just unreal.

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Speaker 3: It's just like the boss offs collusion if.

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Speaker 4: You look across like to the NBA, where like the

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Speaker 4: Kawhi Leonard and Steve Balmer stuff is oh my god,

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Speaker 4: another party, another politic exclusive but hey, there's a reason

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Speaker 4: why they are aggressively going after this, you know, because

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Speaker 4: the other billionaires don't want people rummaging through their shit either,

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Speaker 4: so you know, and ultimately they like the Microsoft guy

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Speaker 4: being part of the gang, so they're not going to

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Speaker 4: do anything. And that's when you see like, oh, there

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Speaker 4: is so much power here that these guys have. And

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Speaker 4: but going back to the NFL, like the twenty eleven

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Speaker 4: CBA is by.

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Speaker 3: The way, CBA is collective bargaining agreement, is.

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Speaker 4: The collect collective bargaining agreement right between the union and

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Speaker 4: the league, right, so if there's no agreement, then like

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Speaker 4: they can't play football games, yeah, because you know, like

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Speaker 4: you said, like the NFLPA functory just exist so the

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Speaker 4: NFL doesn't get sued for like anti trust stuff, which

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Speaker 4: takes us right back to the next point. So going

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Speaker 4: back to twenty eleven, the players are trying to figure out,

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Speaker 4: like what are we gonna do about like this lockout

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Speaker 4: situation because they need to work. Honestly, you know, this

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Speaker 4: is a career that you can only do for most

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Speaker 4: guys like two or three years, and the idea of

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Speaker 4: missing a season is not really feasible, which the owners.

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Speaker 4: You know, they take advantage of all the time, like

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Speaker 4: they know that these guys are on short like short clocks.

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Speaker 4: If you if you get to like year five of

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Speaker 4: an NFL career, you are in a very very small

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Speaker 4: group of players that like, honestly like just represent the

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Speaker 4: elite of the elite of people who have ever played

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Speaker 4: football like in this country.

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Speaker 3: And I think the everything about this too is like

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Speaker 3: that's really important.

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Speaker 8: This is an.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievably, unbelievably skilled labor force. Yes, And in order to

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Speaker 3: develop these skills, you have to devote your entire life

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Speaker 3: to it. Yes, And then what you get from devoting

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Speaker 3: your entire life to this thing that is killing you

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Speaker 3: because you're getting injured constantly and you're getting head trauma

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Speaker 3: from all of this every single time. Like, so we

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Speaker 3: start from like high school, you're starting to get brain

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Speaker 3: damage from concussions, and from like you're starting to get CTE. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and then you have a couple of years to like

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Speaker 3: make money from having devoted your life to this thing.

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Speaker 4: Right, So think about like it's March of twenty eleven. Now,

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Speaker 4: Gene upshaws and pass away. For a couple of years,

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Speaker 4: they were in the fully in the demor Smith in

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Speaker 4: the more Smith's reign of union leadership, and the first

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Speaker 4: move that the owners make, like now that the CBA

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Speaker 4: is officially over twenty ten season, they lock out the players, which,

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Speaker 4: as we just said, if your career is two years,

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Speaker 4: the idea that you would miss one of those years

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Speaker 4: is kind of unfathombed. You're earning power is just like demolished.

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Speaker 4: And let's say you're you're twenty four years old, you

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Speaker 4: got to play two years in the NFL. You're walking

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Speaker 4: out with let's say a million in your bank account.

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Speaker 4: You still got to get a job, bro, you know,

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Speaker 4: like you like, you still got to find something else

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Speaker 4: to do. So like, this isn't money that's going to

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Speaker 4: set you up for the rest of your life for

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Speaker 4: most of these guys, even though it does give you

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Speaker 4: like a nice cushion to fall off to, even if

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Speaker 4: you're someone who struggled a little bit. And shoot, I

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Speaker 4: know when I was twenty four, I would have loved

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Speaker 4: to have like seven hundred thousand dollars in.

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Speaker 3: My main account.

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Speaker 4: Things would have things could have turned out, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe a little bit different. Probably still would have found

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Speaker 4: something some way, Like where I'm right here. But but honestly,

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Speaker 4: it's a good start. So what the union did was

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Speaker 4: a decertified as a union in twenty eleven, led by

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Speaker 4: Tom Brady and Drew Brees Falcons fan. And I will

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Speaker 4: say this part has given me so much justification on

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Speaker 4: my hatred. It's like it went past the football into

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Speaker 4: like the like the material realm of like real life.

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Speaker 4: You you, you guys messed up here. They tried to,

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Speaker 4: you know, challenge the league by decert finance union and arguing,

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Speaker 4: you know that now this is an anti trust situation.

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Speaker 5: Blah blah blah, blah, bah blah.

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Speaker 4: Get down to August the time of twenty eleven CBA

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Speaker 4: in August of twenty eleven, so like this is a month,

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Speaker 4: a month before the season, and the concessions that were

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Speaker 4: made after like after getting locked out for what six.

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Speaker 5: Like five months?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you decertified that you go through all this

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Speaker 4: work to try and get a deal done, and they

399
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Speaker 4: gave up so much. So we said before you have

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Speaker 4: the total revenue split at you know, sixty forty, but

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Speaker 4: functionally it was closer to you know, fifty one fifty

402
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 4: two percent in favor of the players that dropped to

403
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 4: like forty seven percent in the twenty eleven CBAS So

404
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 4: now the owners are back in charge, you know, like

405
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Speaker 4: fifty percent split in favor of the owners. So like

406
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 4: you're you just gave them back like billions of dollars,

407
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 4: like over the course of really really just like a

408
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 4: couple of years, but over the lifetime of a ten

409
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,880
Speaker 4: year CBA. I mean that that's that's egregious and also.

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Speaker 3: The believable amount of money.

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Speaker 4: Another thing that changed was Roger Goodell has now like

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Speaker 4: full autonomy over player punishments.

413
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Speaker 5: I don't know why you gave that up either. That's unhinged, right, right.

414
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Speaker 3: That's like that that's the kind of thing that like

415
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 3: the like the only kind of unions that would sign

416
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 3: something like that are like, like I don't even think

417
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 3: the organized crime unions would signe out. I think that's

418
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: just like literally the fascist unions and the unions that

419
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: are directly controlled, like the yellow unions that are directly

420
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 3: controlled by corporation or like, the only ones that would

421
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 3: sign that, even those ones probably would want to still

422
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: have like some involvement in that. That's like unbelievable for

423
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Speaker 3: a union contract, just like right, nonsense.

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Speaker 4: Right, And and what's changed here is like these players

425
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 4: are not willing to go on strike, like to not

426
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Speaker 4: play these games, to not have a situation like in

427
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 4: the eighties where you know, Donald Trump has built up

428
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 4: the USFL and saying, hey, why don't you strikeing players

429
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 4: that come play over here, and you you have some

430
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 4: some guys who were like NFL Hall of famers who

431
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 4: have briefly played in the USFL during you know, during

432
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 4: the strike stuff that that doesn't happen here. And I

433
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 4: think about the timing, Yeah, August was it August fourth,

434
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 4: twenty eleven, one hundred and thirty two day lockout they

435
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 4: signed this deal, so so I can imagine, And I

436
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 4: was like, I'll give them this. It's hard out here, man,

437
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 4: like you're about to You're looking at yea, like the

438
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 4: consequence of, you know, I'm about to not have checks

439
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 4: and I maybe have a lifestyle where I am still

440
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: should be getting you know, these weeks to be paychecks.

441
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 4: That's kind of a tough, tough draw. So I will

442
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 4: give them like the small grace of saying at that point, man, okay,

443
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 4: fuck it, just let's just go just get something signed.

444
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: But what they gave up, I'm not sure like they

445
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 4: were fully aware of what they gave up here, and

446
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 4: the part of the biggest thing that where they gave

447
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 4: up was part of the biggest thing. After they after

448
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 4: I say they gave the money back to the owners,

449
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 4: they gave Roger Goodell, they made them dictator in terms

450
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 4: of like the punishment workforce, but the rookie wage scale,

451
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 4: my god, a massive, holy massive concession to ownership because

452
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 4: they they as in like Tom Brady and Drew Brees

453
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 4: more so Drew Brees from what I've gathered, kind of

454
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 4: framed this as, hey, why are these rookies getting all

455
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: this damn money? Like this is something that should be

456
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 4: going towards the veterans, and ownership was like, oh, you

457
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 4: see it. You think like you think that's a good idea,

458
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 4: Like we can agree, we can agree to that. And

459
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 4: what they got back was like less practice time, so

460
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 4: you know, you know, you don't have to have as

461
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 4: many two a days.

462
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 5: That's worth billions of dollars.

463
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 4: Really like in terms of like what you what you

464
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 4: guys can set yourself up with and what the what

465
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 4: the veteran players who were on board with this, what

466
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 4: they thought was, oh okay, well if the rookie wages.

467
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 4: If the rookie wages deal like that, if that gets

468
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 4: capped at a certain amount, then that's more money for us.

469
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 4: So like the like a prime example is in twenty ten,

470
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 4: Sam Bradford was a number one overall pick to Saint

471
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: Louis Rams. He signed a six year, eighty four million

472
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 4: dollar contract. So the next year, Cam Newton is the

473
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 4: first overall pick to the Caroline Panthers, and after this

474
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 4: lockout ends, his contract was four years, twenty two million

475
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 4: dollars fully guaranteed.

476
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 7: She's christ.

477
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 4: You lost sixty million dollars in terms of value from

478
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 4: the year before. So what what the players, what the

479
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 4: veteran players thought was, oh, okay, well now there'll be

480
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 4: this influx of cap space to sign veteran players. What

481
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 4: do billionaires do when they suddenly have access to a

482
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: cheap workforce. They just loaded up on rookies, right, So

483
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: these veteran players they sold themselves on like the fallacy

484
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: of trickle down economics and got themselves replaced out of

485
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: the league. So the only people at this benefit really

486
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 4: was people like Drew Brees, people like Tom Brady who

487
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 4: don't need it, right and but also are so indispensable

488
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 4: to their organizations that they can eat up the cap

489
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 4: space that was left over from the rookies game signed.

490
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 4: So that's like that's when you start to see like

491
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 4: the quarterback contracts balloon up. Where you know, you go

492
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 4: from like in twenty fifteen, eleven years ago or twenty sixty,

493
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 4: I think Cam Newton signed a contract that made him

494
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 4: the highest paid quarterback in NFL history at five years,

495
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 4: one hundred million dollars. Oh my god, you know, and

496
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: now that number is what like, I think, man, who's

497
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 4: the high paid?

498
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 5: Is Joe Burrow the highest paid right now? At I

499
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 5: feel like it's Burrow?

500
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah that sounds right.

501
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 4: But now like that deal is worth you know, closer

502
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 4: to eighty million, you know, seventy million dollars a year

503
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: than it is to anything like closer to twenty Yeah,

504
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 4: so you gave up so much and you got this

505
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 4: whole middle class of the league just decimated, and and yeah,

506
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 4: like that that's still tangible today. You can just go

507
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 4: on over the CAAP dot com or a stock track

508
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 4: dot com and just look at like like average money

509
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 4: like per year, and there's a top and then the

510
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 4: middle class is literally like a couple players, and for

511
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: quarterback it's like two or three guys like you have

512
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 4: like announce like a Molik Willis or a Daniel Jones,

513
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: like forty like as crazy as to say, like forty

514
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 4: four million dollars, Like that's outside the top half of

515
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 4: what guys are getting paid. And then it's all rookies yep,

516
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 4: like all rookies and guys on rookie contracts. There's no

517
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 4: middle class like that that's gone from the NFL. And

518
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 4: with that, like you lose some of like like personally

519
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 4: this is vide like you lose some of them, like

520
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 4: the wisdom that comes with that of guys who have

521
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 4: played in the league because now now they're getting turned

522
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 4: out so fast because the contract is so cheap. Yeah,

523
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 4: I'm not going to extend you because honestly, this game

524
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 4: beats your body up so bad that it's better just

525
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: to get a fresh body in there. And these people,

526
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: they have no attachment to the sacrifices that have been

527
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 4: built over a long time. So you kind of build

528
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 4: this player force that doesn't know what's going on.

529
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 5: And I say that with.

530
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 4: A grain of salt now because I used to be

531
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: one of these guys like, oh you know, they don't

532
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 4: care what's going on, and there is a good chunk

533
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 4: that don't care what's going on. But I think now

534
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 4: it's more clear there's like an obvious force stopping them

535
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 4: from getting like information about what's going on with this

536
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 4: union stuff, which is the meat of this. Like the

537
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: recent stuff is just like the ultimate just fucket. I

538
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: guess we're ponds of the ownership stuff.

539
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 5: You know.

540
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: I think the arc of this is like it's it's

541
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 3: the arc of sort of unionism in America. You know,

542
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: you go back to like your early nineteen hundreds unions, right,

543
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: and those unions, you know, they're unbelievably powerful. They're extremely dangerous.

544
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: You know, you get to a point where like the

545
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: IWW will show up to a town and like the

546
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: bosses in the town will show up with guns and

547
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: shoot them because they're that well organized, they're that dangerous,

548
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: they're that capable of striking, they're that committed, and they're

549
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: that able to tap into all of their members and

550
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: have everyone in the union be a part of the

551
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 3: union and do things with the union. And that's you know,

552
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 3: how you can actually do collective action. And then and

553
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 3: you can watch this with sort of like with the

554
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: ability of NFLPA, like obviously like that's a much weaker union.

555
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: Then you're like, yeah, I don't know, you're like nineteen

556
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: thirty CIO or whatever. Yeah, but you can watch it

557
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: like sort of decay into this sort of you know,

558
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 3: what you call like a service union, where in instead

559
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: of it being run by the players, there's like, okay,

560
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: we're we have some people. They're going to go they're

561
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: going to do everything for you. They're going to sometimes

562
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 3: talk to you about it, but you know, like they're

563
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: going to be the runs, like managing all of the

564
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 3: contracts and all of the negotiations and like right, and

565
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 3: as it like information circle gets tighter and tighter, you know,

566
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 3: that makes it way easier for things to just get

567
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: completely fucked. And then then you know, and this is

568
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: one of the things that you see in the nineties

569
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: is the complete dominance of business unionism where it's like, nah,

570
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: fuck it, we're a union, yeah, right, the us on

571
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: the employers actually have the same interest and we're going

572
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: to work with them to make money. And it's like

573
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: how is that going for you? Guys like I E.

574
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 3: And then that's what this sort of turns into and

575
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: one of the issues here, and you're talking about this

576
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: with like the information control is what once you get

577
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: into this situation where you know a really really small

578
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: number of people, like we're talking maybe thirty people, and

579
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: then the executive committees even smaller than that, are the

580
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: ones who are you know. One of the things that

581
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: happens in the later part of this is so JC Shredder,

582
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: who's like the guy behind the scenes for like the

583
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: executive just the search for like the executive director, the

584
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: guy who like completely truly was like the most hideous

585
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: guy I've ever had running this union. He changed the

586
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: process so that it was completely confidential, to the point

587
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: where the three two guys on the board who were

588
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: supposed to be voting for the executive director didn't know

589
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 3: the names of the candidates until they walked into the meeting, Right,

590
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: what the fuck?

591
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 4: And to me, like that point is like so crucial

592
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 4: because that's where I ship from. Oh, it's not that

593
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 4: the guys don't care about this, like they don't know

594
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 4: what's going on.

595
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's being hidden from them.

596
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 5: They can't know, they can't know.

597
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: And and I will say, like part of what makes

598
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: this difficult if you are someone in there who does

599
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 4: care and wants to wants to fix things. Is they're

600
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 4: just the truth that like even the bottom rung players

601
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: are comfortably living like off of their salaries. So when

602
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: you start to get to guys who are veterans, like

603
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 4: and even if you don't take the best deal shit,

604
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 4: like what I'm still making fifteen million dollars a year, Like,

605
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 4: ultimately I'm still good. And that's what it's hard to

606
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: like get people galvanized about this sometimes. But I think

607
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 4: that that part about like players not caring has kind

608
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: of been overrepresented a little bit because I think if

609
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 4: you're paying attention now, there's so much murkiness. And I

610
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: think when when you get to like the recent CBA

611
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 4: is like in twenty twenty, the COVID year one, So

612
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: now that's like the more Smith and J. C. Tredder

613
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 4: who was playing for the Browns and then he was

614
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: the president of the NFLPA as they enter like this

615
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 4: this twenty twenty CBA at the end after the end

616
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: of the twenty eleven ten year run where for ten

617
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 4: years they locked themselves into owners Chasepion to extract like

618
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: as much value, yeah as as it seemed like they

619
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: possibly could at the time, and then twenty twenty comes

620
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 4: and the owners are basically just like, hey, there's gonna

621
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 4: be another lockout unless you guys agree to a seventeenth game,

622
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 4: which you should say that okay, cool, because there's no

623
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: circumstance where you you can walk the football and know

624
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 4: how horrible this game is for your body and say

625
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: we are going to play more football without like major concessions. Yeah,

626
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 4: because I remember when that was going on, you know,

627
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 4: I was talking to some older guys who weren't in

628
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: the unit anymore, but they were looking at it like,

629
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: man like if they're if they're gonna say seventeenth game,

630
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 4: like we need something massive like giving back to us

631
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: on the other hand, because that's just straight up a

632
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: revenue play to get more games on TV and make

633
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 4: these TV contracts a.

634
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 5: Little bit more lucrative.

635
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: And that didn't really happen, you know, like no, like

636
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 4: they just gave up the seventeenth game and they got

637
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: I think one percent more in terms of like the

638
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: rev share, so it got to like forty eight or

639
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 4: forty nine percent.

640
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, like that's it you.

641
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: Share for adding Like what what what's the percent game added?

642
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: To the season like right.

643
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: And and like there were some concessions made to like

644
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 4: players made at the bottom rung of the ladder, so

645
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: like like the veteran minimum salaries, like they got boosted,

646
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 4: the practice squads got a little bit longer, and now

647
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 4: you got into the space where you see, like veterans

648
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 4: can be on a practice squad instead of guys who

649
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: are within like three years of you know, accrued years

650
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 4: in the NFL. But the seventeenth game while still having

651
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: inequity in terms of the revenue share, I mean, the owners,

652
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 4: they'll sign up for that every single time. Oh we

653
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 4: got to throw your crumbs, yep, and we still get

654
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 4: to keep our billions. And they timed it up right,

655
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: so that seventeenth game being inserted into the schedule was

656
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 4: lining up with new TV contracts with ESPN and NBC

657
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 4: and Amazon everyone. You see, like throwing cash is so understated,

658
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: Like if not throwing cash, like billions of dollars is

659
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 4: going to the NFL. Yeah, through these TV deals. Like

660
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: it's funny. I had a friend, you know, one of

661
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 4: these Shador Sanders stands. He was arguing like, oh you know,

662
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: he was like, oh, you know, like the Browns like

663
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 4: they took Shador because they need the jersey sales. I'm like, dude,

664
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 4: Chador could have the number one selling jersey in the NFL,

665
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: and Jimmy hasn't didn't care about that. That's a drop

666
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 4: of a drop of a drop in the market for

667
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 4: like where the money's actually coming from, and that's the

668
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: TV deal. So to get that seventeenth game is huge,

669
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 4: And this term is for ten years again, so in

670
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 4: twenty thirty they can look at, you know, renegotiation trying

671
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 4: to figure it out. But in the meantime, like to

672
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 4: even call this a union is so far away from

673
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 4: like how it's actually functioning.

674
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 5: Now.

675
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 4: It's getting to the part like where it's kind of

676
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 4: murky on what's happening. Because obviously, like if you're in

677
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 4: a union and you know, like my coworkers, like they've.

678
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 5: Dealt with J. C.

679
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 4: Tradder, like I've seen him speak before, if you're in

680
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 4: a union, obviously, like you don't want too many people

681
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: outside of the union to know what's going on. Like

682
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 4: it's just not good from a standpoint of like leverage

683
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 4: and power. But JC Tredder like he plays off of

684
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: that by keeping everything a secret.

685
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, which is a terrible idea, which is

686
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: a terrible idea, Like yeah, well it's good for him,

687
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: right right, right, Like maybe you.

688
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: Don't want to tell me a reporter like what's going on,

689
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 4: but you should tell like the other people within your

690
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 4: union what's going on. Like when you see like a

691
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 4: lack of information about or any information about, like what's

692
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 4: going on with these with these elections, it's because no

693
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 4: one's being told what's going on these elections.

694
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 5: And that's how you end up with Lloyd Howe, which

695
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 5: is just dude.

696
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: Oh god, okay, okay, let let's let's talk about Lloyd Howell,

697
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 3: who is oh my god, yeah, one of the worst

698
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: people to run a union I have ever seen.

699
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 4: Yes, but it's purposefullly bad, you know, Like, yeah, the

700
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 4: Lloyd Howell like a secret election, Like it's not not

701
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: even to say, like I was, you know, somewhat somewhat

702
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 4: of a secret now a secret of election basically to

703
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 4: get Lloyd Howell hired what he somewhere for Booze Allen Man.

704
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: Yeah he was. He was the CFO of booz Allen Hamilton, right,

705
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 3: Like his background was in busting unions.

706
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 4: Uh huh, right, that's his background. Yeah, and this, but

707
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 4: this is where you get like such a look at

708
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 4: the ideology of someone like J. C. Tratterer, who also

709
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 4: studied labor unions in college. That's what you guys, degree

710
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 4: in labor labor relations and labor rangement from Harvard.

711
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, you're not. You're not doing the the labor

712
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: relations degree to like being a union. Like like the

713
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: people the people who like organize for unions are like

714
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: fucking grad students who you know, have like a I

715
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 3: don't know like they have they have some random degree

716
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 3: and then they were like, fucking I organized my graduat

717
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna go organize the field. This is

718
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: not what you go into that for. You go into

719
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: this union busting.

720
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

721
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: So, but so J. C. Trader and you know, the

722
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: people around him they viewed that experience from Wood Howell

723
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: and busting unions as a positive. Yeah, because you know,

724
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 4: there's this train of thought like oh, well, you know, well,

725
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 4: if we know someone who knows how to destroy us,

726
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: if we hire them, surely they will change their ways

727
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 4: and they will start to help us. Like we're going

728
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 4: to get inside knowledge on how to bust a unit.

729
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 4: So maybe we could weaponize that and turn it back

730
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: the other way. Man, that's dumb as hell, Like that's

731
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 4: oh my god. Right, and not only that, but but

732
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: but how who who? Who is elected the executive director

733
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 4: of the union is also a part of a hedge

734
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: fund that is investing in NFL teams in minorities.

735
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, the Carlisle Group.

736
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 9: Like you, you're an executive director of the union works

737
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 9: for hedge funds that are extracting value from these teams,

738
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 9: like like true players.

739
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's disqualifying, Like it should be disqualifying.

740
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 7: She's on camera.

741
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: The union posted a video of him on camera talking

742
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: about how he was talking to the owners about letting

743
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: about letting the investment group.

744
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: Yes, it's unbelievable.

745
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 3: It's as close as I've ever seen outside of again,

746
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 3: a union that is literally run by the bosses to

747
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 3: like my union guy works for managements. Like it's like baffling.

748
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 3: I don't know, It's like it's like State integrated CCP shit, right,

749
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: Like it's like, dude, yes, you have.

750
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 5: A corporate consultant?

751
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 4: Is your union liaison to thirty two billionaires and Roger Goodell?

752
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 4: Like yeah, it's it's completely incompatible on like a basic

753
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 4: like ideological level, and then you start getting to like, well, okay,

754
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 4: well now he has like direct control over people's lives

755
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 4: and the funds of the union, which, as ESPN and

756
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 4: Paulo Tooria found out, he was using to go to

757
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 4: the goddamn strip club in Miami, Yeah, and to spend

758
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 4: on other stuff. And also he was sued for sexual

759
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 4: harassment while he was at Booz Allen. So he's hidden

760
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 4: like the check marks for everything you see like corporate sociopathy,

761
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 4: right yeah, and they're like, that's our guy, that's our guy.

762
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 4: Once all this stuff comes out about how he spends

763
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 4: his money and you know, how he's misappropriating funds, that

764
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 4: was what got him out, more so than like the

765
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 4: material practices that he accept the five while he was

766
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 4: running the union, which involved, yeah, hiding the fact that

767
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 4: the owners were colluding against them.

768
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 3: It is completely unhinged. And unfortunately, the other thing that's

769
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: unhinged is that's going to be all for today. However,

770
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: come there is more to this story tomorrow, as we

771
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: finished part two of this interview, and oh my god,

772
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: holy shit, somehow the worst is yet to come. So

773
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 3: join us for part two tomorrow, in which question Mark

774
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 3: there seems to be good evidence of the NFL paying

775
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 3: a guy specifically to be able to keep control of

776
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: the union. Oh dear, So if you if you want

777
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: to find more of Charles McDonald's work, you can do

778
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: so at the Football three h one podcast and at

779
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeahoo Sports, where he writes to call them for verts.

780
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: It's quite good. You should listen to it. And yeah,

781
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 3: dear god, I don't know foreign unions. If you're in

782
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: unions that suck, make better ones, welcome to it could

783
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 3: happen here podcast about the most unhinged union story I

784
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: have ever covered. I am your host, Mio Wong, and

785
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 3: in a moment we will return to my interview with

786
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: Yahoo Sports journalist Charles McDonald. So if you have not

787
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: listened to the last episode, you should listen to the

788
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: last episodes. We can get you up to the twenty

789
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 3: twenties in terms of the horrifying and depressing story of

790
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: the NFL Players Association's leadership graduate selling out more and

791
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 3: more of their players. And in this episode we're going

792
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 3: to really sort of get down to the brass tax

793
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 3: of what's been happening in the twenty twenties and answering

794
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: the question to what extent has the NFL paid in

795
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: order to have a pro management regime installed at the

796
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: head of the union, a question that is really distressingly.

797
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 3: We have good evidence of this, but before we can

798
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 3: get to that, we need to talk about one of

799
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: the other absolutely horrifying things that this union regime has done,

800
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 3: and that is the union covering up as reported by Publictoria. Originally,

801
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 3: it reports by an arbitration judge about whether or not

802
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: the independent teams in the NFL, which are supposed to

803
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: be businesses competing against each other. And I kind of

804
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 3: emphasize this enough because this is a major portion of

805
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: how the NFL's anti trust is I'm just supposed to work,

806
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: is that these teams are normally competing against each other,

807
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 3: so there is supposed to be a labor market with competition.

808
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 3: But this document that the union covered up from an

809
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: arbitration process they were in is about it has very

810
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: good evidence of the league actively colluding in order to

811
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 3: pay players less, and the union covered it up. So

812
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: here we go back to our interview. Let's talk about

813
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: this collusion thing, because I've been losing my fucking mind

814
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: about this for a really long time, and I cannot

815
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: imagine just literally having evidence in your hand that the

816
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: owners are colluding against your members, like these are literally

817
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 3: you like this is supposed to be you and you're

818
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: just sing hiding the report h even.

819
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 4: Like okay, so even if you lose the arbitration. Yeah,

820
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 4: the fact that a judge wrote, yeah, legal document that

821
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 4: it was like beyond the benstit of a doubt that

822
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 4: Roger Goodell and the thirty two owners were colluding. We've

823
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 4: seen text messages between the Cardinals owner and the Chargers

824
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 4: owner talking about how much to pay Justin Herbert.

825
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Lamar Jackson, Yeah, okay, can we can we explain

826
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 3: to Lamar Jackson situation and like explain it who Lamar

827
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: Jackson is for people who don't watch football, so they

828
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: can understand how unhinged this is.

829
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson is a wizard, is the best way that

830
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 4: I could put it. Lamar Jackson. He is the franchise

831
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: quarterback for the Baltimore Rayments, And I just think that

832
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 4: anyone with the brain could have seen what was going on. Yeah, right,

833
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 4: like with this situation, so so and even before Deshaun,

834
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 4: even before Lamar Jackson. You have to take it back

835
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 4: to Deshaun Watson trade out of Houston.

836
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 3: Oh god, the one trade we've ever covered on this show,

837
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: because holy shit, dude, Oh but this, this is.

838
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: What got the Dominoes rolling on this stuff. Where As

839
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 4: terrible as Deshaun Watson is as a football player now

840
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 4: and obviously as a human being, yeah, like right when

841
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 4: he was in Houston, it feels like a different world,

842
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 4: but he was the man, Like he was incredible, like

843
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 4: to the point where the Texans I think his last

844
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 4: year starting there, they went four and twelve and it

845
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 4: was like so obviously not his fault, like in terms

846
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 4: of efficiency, like he was right behind Patrick Mahomes to

847
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 4: the top of the league. Like he got an apology

848
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 4: from JJ Watt that year saying, like, dude, we wasted

849
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 4: an absolutely incredible year from you. And then you know

850
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 4: the thirty accusations of at best sexual mixed conduct, at

851
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: worst sexual assault, and in some of those cases.

852
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hideous shit.

853
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: Right, So then it gets to a point where he

854
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 4: the texts they don't want them there, He doesn't want

855
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 4: to be there anymore. But you have what looks to

856
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: be a franchise quarterback in his mid twenties available for

857
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 4: any team to have, you know, with the trade. So

858
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 4: my team, Sally d Lash Falcons, they thought that they

859
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: had a deal done for Deshaun Watson, and then the

860
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 4: Cleveland Browns came in. And this is where the where

861
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 4: the ownership you know feedback kind of gets broken, where

862
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 4: Jimmy has Them breaks the rings and says, I want

863
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: this guy on my team so bad. You know, this

864
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 4: is why like nobody ever hits free agency in the NFL,

865
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 4: because this is what it would look like in terms

866
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 4: of like when owners actually have to bid against each

867
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 4: other for elite talent. Yeah, Jimmy has Them comes in

868
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 4: and says, here's five years, two hundred and thirty million dollars.

869
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 4: Every single penny will be guaranteed, no stipulations and nothing.

870
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: Like that, which is like not how this works normally, Like,

871
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: no one gets guarantee contracts, right, And because.

872
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 4: The previously the actual first player to get a fully

873
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 4: guaranteed the contract from another team was actually Kirk Cousins

874
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 4: with the Vikings when he left Washington. They gave him

875
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 4: like a three year I think it was three years

876
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 4: eighty eight million dollars fully guaranteed. But still that ain't

877
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 4: five years two hundred and thirty yeah, you know. Yeah,

878
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 4: And what the owners were mad about was not that

879
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 4: you would seek out someone with the personal background Deshaun

880
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 4: Watson to represent your franchise. It's that you would pay

881
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: any NFL player two hundred and thirty million dollars guaranteed.

882
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 5: Because now that sense precedent.

883
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 4: Because if you're Lamar Jackson, whose contract was coming to

884
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: an end at the season after Deshaun Watson signed this deal,

885
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 4: I didn't touch those women. Yeah, I'm an MVP quarterback

886
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 4: and I'm in my twenties. Why shouldn't I get a

887
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 4: fully guaranteed contract? Yep, right, which is what he was doing.

888
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: And the Ravens they said, okay, fine, go out into

889
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 4: the market. And I felt like I was going insane

890
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 4: during this because, oh my god, there were so many

891
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 4: arguments from talking heads about why teams shouldn't sign Lamar Jackson.

892
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 4: So he was hit with what's called a non exclusive

893
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 4: franchise tag, which means the Ravens. I don't even know

894
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 4: how how the idea of the franchise tag existing is

895
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 4: another week like labor.

896
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 3: L hittyous anti labor practice.

897
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 4: Right, So his contract with the Ravens is over. And

898
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 4: they can hit him with an exclusive franchise tag, which

899
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 4: means you will be playing for US next year. You

900
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 4: basically have no say in it unless we remove this

901
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 4: or you know, we work out a trade with somebody else,

902
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 4: but you cannot go negotiate with anyone else even though your.

903
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 5: Contract has expired.

904
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, to be quote unquote fair, like, the payment

905
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 4: is a average of the top five you know, yearly

906
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 4: salaries of the position you play, so you will get

907
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 4: paid like, you know, a top five player for one

908
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 4: year at your position. It really only goes to mostly

909
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 4: valuable players that they're trying to extend. But they hit

910
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: him with a non exclusive franchise tag, which means they

911
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 4: have right a first refusal on if another team offers

912
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson a contract, and that team would owe the

913
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 4: Ravens two first round picks in order to sign Lamar Jackson.

914
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 4: So Deshaun Watson is one for three. Yeah, and this

915
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 4: rule is legally mandate. That is two first round picks.

916
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 4: And I'm sure you know the Raves have probably asked

917
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 4: for a little stuff beyond that, but I only have

918
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 4: to give you two first round picks and I can

919
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 4: just sign Lamar Jackson it's like a generational quarterback, like right, right, right,

920
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 4: at this point, we're talking about a quarterback who is

921
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 4: like twenty five years old. He's the first unanimous MVP,

922
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 4: which he wonted his first season as a starter. Yeah,

923
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 4: since Tom Brady. He's one of two players in like

924
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 4: or you know, I don't know if it's two, but

925
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 4: it's less than five players in the history of the

926
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 4: league that have been unanimous MVPs. Every single person voted

927
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 4: for Lamar Jackson be an MVP, and the Ravens said

928
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 4: go ahead and negotiate with another team, and no one,

929
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 4: no one even brought him in to talk to him, right, Like,

930
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 4: it's unbelievable.

931
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 3: I grew up in Chicago, so like I grew up

932
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: with the Bears, and my family are like a like

933
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: a family is like Seahawks fans. Right, Neither of those

934
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: two teams have ever had a quarterback who's in the

935
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 3: same stratosphere as this guy. Like this is right. These

936
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: guys never like ever ever.

937
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 4: Ever hit free agency, never ever, and people like they'll

938
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 4: bend the rules to things that aren't written were let's say, oh,

939
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 4: you know, the.

940
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 5: Ravens will just match, make them match. Then you have them.

941
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 3: That's a competitive advantage for you.

942
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 4: Right right. I hate that my favorite team he's popped

943
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 4: up in this Atlanta. But but Arthur Blank, he put

944
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 4: his name on it, saying, you know, the Falcons, like

945
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 4: they were trying to out, you know, backup quarterback quality guys,

946
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 4: because after Matt Ryan left.

947
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 3: Has been rider like Jesus Christ.

948
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 5: Marcus Mariota, dude.

949
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 4: And and I'm sitting there like you're telling me that

950
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 4: I can sign Lamar Jackson and I got to give

951
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 4: up two first round picks for him, Like, dude, pay

952
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 4: him sixty million guaranteed every year.

953
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 5: He's worth that much.

954
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, And Arthur Blank says, well, you know, Lamar Jackson,

955
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 4: he's gonna get hurt too much for us to sign him.

956
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 5: So so nope, no team signs him. No team even

957
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 5: talks to him.

958
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 4: So obviously he goes back to the Ravens, doesn't get

959
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 4: the full guaranteed contract that the Shaun Watson got and

960
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 4: that kind of put an end to it for a

961
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 4: little bit until the power of journalism popped up. Poullotory

962
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 4: does his investigation here's about arbitration, hearing about collusion in

963
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: the NFL, and he gets his hands, like on the

964
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 4: documents that say that while Lamar Jackson was going through

965
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 4: his free agency basically rejection by thirty one teams, when

966
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 4: he would have been upgrade for like.

967
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 5: Twenty eight of them, twenty nine of them.

968
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, at the time, I would throw a number one

969
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 3: overall rookie quarterback that I just drafted with the first

970
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 3: ro overall pick out the fucking window thrown away to

971
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 3: get Lamar Jackson.

972
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 4: Right, you can be a part of this. Two first

973
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 4: round picks were giving you two first round picks plus. Yeah,

974
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 4: you know if like at that time, like it may

975
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 4: have been like Kyler Murray or something like that.

976
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, take them like it's taken.

977
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable, Like I cannot he he literally like the

978
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 3: game of football is a fundamentally a different game now.

979
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: It was when when Lamar Jackson like started playing because

980
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 3: of him, and it's just like he didn't take.

981
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 4: Him his influence on the NFL so strong that we

982
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,479
Speaker 4: don't really do the black quarterback talking points anymore. Yeah,

983
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 4: because the league was like, oh, we can't let that

984
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 4: happen again. Like when Lamar Jackson fell to thirty two

985
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 4: and everyone's talk about does he needs to play a

986
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 4: different position, and in year two he wins an MVP.

987
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the.

988
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 4: Year after he signs his deal with the Ravens, he

989
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 4: wins his second MVP. Like that kind of cooled the fans.

990
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: Like when you get to see guys like Kim Warre

991
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 4: going first overall or even Kyler Murray going first of

992
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 4: all and there's no talk about like how smart they

993
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: are as players. Yeah, Like that's his influence directly, his

994
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 4: success contribute to that, Like he is a Hall of Fame.

995
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 4: It kind of gives me chills, like think about like

996
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 4: what he's accomplished concerning like what has this fact against him? Yeah,

997
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 4: Like he is such an important figure for this era

998
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 4: of football and really just the whole league, like on

999
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 4: the field and off the field, like what he means

1000
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 4: like culturally in society, for like for the chances that

1001
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 4: black man can get to play a position that deemed

1002
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 4: like they were deemed not the place part enough because

1003
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 4: he was so good that they said, we can't look

1004
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 4: that stupid again. This player was available. This player was

1005
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 4: available in his athletic times. Every team could have drafted him.

1006
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 4: Every single team in the league could have drafted him,

1007
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 4: and they fucking didn't the Ravens passed on him.

1008
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 5: It's like he was not even the first Ravens draft

1009
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 5: pick that year.

1010
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 4: No, they drafted hidden Hurst twenty five overall before they

1011
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 4: drafted Lamar Jackson. Every single team passed on him, and

1012
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 4: he's one. He's one of eleven players in the HISTORIL

1013
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 4: and NFL to win two MVPs. Every other player that

1014
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 4: has won two or more MVPs is either a Hall

1015
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 4: of Famer or actively playing Aaron Rodgers and Pat Mahomes.

1016
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 4: That's it, Like this guy is a Hall of Famer already.

1017
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 3: And he should have won a third by the way,

1018
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 3: like right, he should have won the third, but either

1019
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: way near identical, like like statistical tie for like a

1020
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 3: third one.

1021
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 4: So yeah, he's first. He's the three time first team

1022
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 4: up pro. He's going to be a Hall of Famer.

1023
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: And the fact that nobody nobody called him in to

1024
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 4: say what what would it take? What contract are you

1025
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 4: looking for? That that's why I was like something, something,

1026
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 4: something is so obviously not right here. The Colts traded

1027
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 4: to first rowd picks for a quarterback, Like yes, right,

1028
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 4: precisely precisely, and.

1029
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 3: Like they're starting a guy who broke his leg and

1030
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 3: then also news Achilles like letters like.

1031
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 4: I just do like Jalen Ramsey went for two first

1032
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 4: round picks and he's a great play, but he's a cornerback.

1033
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 5: You know, it's not even the same thing.

1034
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 3: So this is the most important position in sports.

1035
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 4: Right A first ballot Hall of Famer was on the

1036
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 4: market in his prime and nobody talked him about a

1037
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 4: contract except the team that owned that, you know, owned

1038
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 4: like the rights of first refusal. And it was so

1039
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 4: frustrating to see, like my colleagues in the media say, oh,

1040
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 4: you know, the Rams were just gonna match. That's so disingenuous.

1041
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 4: That's so disingenuous because you're you're stripping Lamar like of

1042
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: his agency as a player one like he's better than

1043
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 4: every other quarterback that just about any team has. It

1044
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 4: will be such a severe upgrade. And you're also just

1045
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 4: like holding the line for what you're not getting cut

1046
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 4: of that money? Why are you lying for these people

1047
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 4: like that? But but Pablo took back, like in his

1048
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 4: reporting he found out that a job agreed with the

1049
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 4: union that the players were being colluded against, like actively,

1050
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 4: like there's there's text messages and J C.

1051
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 5: Trader and Lloyd Howe they hit this from the unit.

1052
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 10: Bro.

1053
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 5: If if you're a union and you have even if

1054
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 5: you lose.

1055
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 4: Arbitration, you have physical note from a judge that says

1056
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 4: you were ccluded against, take your megaphone to the top

1057
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 4: of the talls mount in the world and talk about this.

1058
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 4: Apply some pressure now, Like this is where I started

1059
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 4: to get curious, like why why did this happen? Because

1060
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 4: that part we still don't have enough information all like

1061
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 4: like I need to like how much like if there's

1062
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 4: a kickback going back to like JA C. Trader, how

1063
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 4: much is it? And we do know that Lloyd how

1064
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 4: part of the reason also parbat of reason why he

1065
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 4: was fired or had to resign with because he along

1066
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 4: with he along with a former former MLBPA union leader,

1067
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 4: Tony White, who was recently fired for banging his brother's

1068
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 4: wife who he hired to work at the mL LBU.

1069
00:53:59,160 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 11: Oh my fucking god.

1070
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, the NFLPA is so lucky that the MLBPA had

1071
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 3: a shadow that's almost as embarrassing to the strung club

1072
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 3: that maybe.

1073
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 4: But Lloyd Howell and Tony White, they were working together

1074
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 4: as part of an eight man group of like union

1075
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 4: parasites like at the top of the corporate ladder in

1076
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 4: America to siphon money away from the union into their

1077
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: own personal pockets.

1078
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 5: Like this is what's running it.

1079
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 4: We know for a fact Lloyd an Tony White, who's

1080
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 4: the you know baseball union had what it was because

1081
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 4: he no longer has his job or family.

1082
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that did for him, but fucking you, you you

1083
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 3: brought this upon yourself, right.

1084
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 4: He can't go home for Christy like that, Like he's done.

1085
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 4: They were part of a small group that was sifeing

1086
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 4: money away from you union funds to line their own pockets.

1087
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 4: Like that is verified. They've been sued for that. So

1088
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 4: what else is going on here?

1089
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1090
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 4: What is the incentivization for J. C. Tredder to push

1091
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 4: someone like that through? And then the backside is jc's

1092
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 4: reign as the union president expires while Lloyd How's the

1093
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 4: executive director and Lloyd makes a new cushy role for

1094
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 4: JC as like you know, I don't remember what the

1095
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 4: role was called, but like.

1096
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 7: It's like if a strategy or something.

1097
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 4: Yes, chief strategy officer, so something that paid him like

1098
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 4: three million dollars a year, very handsomely, punctually Lloyd was off,

1099
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 4: you know, blowing money at the Strip club, and JC

1100
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 4: was kind of running like the actual data day things

1101
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 4: because he's the one that has a connection.

1102
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 5: To the players, right. And now we've gone through a

1103
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 5: point where.

1104
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 4: After Gene Upshaw dies, the two executive directors who followed him,

1105
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 4: as you know, the head of union, Jamar Smith and

1106
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 4: Lloyd Howe. Neither of those guys were NFL players, So

1107
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 4: you can understand how players might feel we've gotten a

1108
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 4: little bit too far from our roots, like we don't

1109
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 4: have guys who are from our background interested in you know,

1110
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 4: players and what we go through.

1111
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 5: Which leads back to J. C.

1112
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 4: Tredder, who played for the Packers, played for the Browns,

1113
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 4: was at his peak.

1114
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 5: Man, he was a good player.

1115
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 4: Like I'm not going to take that away from Like

1116
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 4: he was a good starting center on a lot of

1117
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 4: good offensive lines in Cleveland that didn't win any games, no,

1118
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 4: but they they blocked the hell out of people, man Like,

1119
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 4: Like like when you go back you look at some

1120
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 4: of those lines, like they had Joe Thomas and Alex

1121
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 4: Snack and Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Platonio, like they have some

1122
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 4: stars that are out there winning four or five games

1123
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 4: a year. So Lloyd Halliver resigns in a mess. JC

1124
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 4: is still the chief Strategy offers of the NFLPA.

1125
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 7: I think he resigns eventually from there.

1126
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, after whatd HALLI resigns. J C resigns too.

1127
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 4: So now we're up to last summer summer twenty twenty five. Yeah,

1128
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 4: eight months ago, right, it's March twenty seven. Eight months ago.

1129
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 4: J C tried to resigns from the chief strategy officer

1130
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: role that was cut out before him and says he

1131
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 4: said in an interview to my friend Jonathan Jones, I

1132
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 4: have no interest in any leadership roles in the moving forward.

1133
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 4: He said. I have given this my all. I've given

1134
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 4: this everything I had. I'm gonna go home and be

1135
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 4: a family man. I have no interest in this at all.

1136
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 4: And it seemed like it until this month when j C.

1137
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 4: Pouse back up as one of the finalists for the

1138
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,439
Speaker 4: new executive director role that's was previously left by Lloyd Howe.

1139
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 5: Now this is where it's murky.

1140
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 4: I don't know like all the processes that go on

1141
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 4: with like how they decide like who's gonna, you know,

1142
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 4: do what, like they apparently they have three hundred candidates.

1143
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 4: It will have down the three. I don't ask some

1144
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 4: players what was going on in the past couple of weeks.

1145
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 4: They don't know, like how like all this was selected.

1146
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 4: But they are presented with three finalists for the executive

1147
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 4: director role to vote on Rider, who has popped up

1148
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 4: out of nowhere. Then the commissioner of the American Athletic

1149
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 4: Conference so like Temple and you know those East Coast schools,

1150
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 4: like like James Madison or whatever, like he's overseeing that.

1151
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: It's like a college football commissioner.

1152
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 4: Well yeah, like like yeah, college football, college football commission

1153
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 4: Like he's talking to like the president of Rice University

1154
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 4: about like scheduling games against Toledo or some shit.

1155
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 11: Christ.

1156
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 4: But see you have Jay C. Tradder the American Conference commissioner,

1157
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 4: not even like the ACC, the A A C. Right

1158
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 4: think ass conference. It used to be the Big East,

1159
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 4: Like they're stolen Big East valor this this guy was

1160
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 4: running against JAYC.

1161
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 5: Trader.

1162
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 4: And also the third was a former Hollywood Union exect

1163
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 4: who didn't really seem to be that interested in the

1164
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 4: role in the first place. So we get down to

1165
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 4: the election day and we find out the American Conference

1166
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 4: commissioner drops out on.

1167
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 5: Election day. He dropped right. Okay, So now so now.

1168
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 4: We're dealing with We've had two executive directors back to back,

1169
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 4: Morse Smith, Lords Howe not football players didn't go well.

1170
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 4: Ja C. Tratder was a part of that, but he

1171
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 4: played football, right, So you see the Jac Tradder or

1172
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 4: this Hollywood guy who doesn't give a crap. I forget

1173
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 4: his name, but his background wasn't like always the cleanest

1174
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 4: in terms of, you know, actually getting things done, in

1175
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 4: terms of you know, being pro labor all the time,

1176
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 4: ultimately as fucked up as it is. That's an easy

1177
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 4: choice if you're a player. These are my two options.

1178
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take the guy who at least has played football.

1179
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 5: So you had Ja C.

1180
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 4: Tradder, who is now back as the executive director eight

1181
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 4: months after he said he had no interest in being

1182
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 4: any type of union leadership.

1183
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 7: And like somehow this whole process has like stage manage.

1184
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: He's like back again.

1185
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 4: Right, But to me, this lynchpin right here is actually

1186
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 4: the most fascinating part of what's happened. And this is

1187
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 4: where like, if you listen to this podcast probably won't

1188
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 4: sound like the conspiracy If you're not thinking about labor

1189
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 4: relations in America. It might sound like conspiracy to you,

1190
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 4: but j C. Tretder when he was the president, like

1191
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 4: his right hand man, I think it was like the

1192
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 4: vice president was Jalen Reeves Mayban or was very important.

1193
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 4: He was especially seen was the linebacker for the lines

1194
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 4: for a long time. He became the union president after

1195
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 4: j C. Tretder left and you know, became like the

1196
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 4: chief strategy officer. So he basically followed in j C.

1197
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 4: Treader's footsteps as the union president. So you know, while

1198
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 4: all this shapey stuff's going on, Reeves Mayban is an

1199
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 4: underrated part as you know, the new union president because

1200
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 4: Lloyd was executive director.

1201
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 5: J C had this new role as the chief strategy officer.

1202
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 4: But Jalen Reeves Mayban is sitting there as the president

1203
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 4: of the union, so obviously he is involved in this somehow, right,

1204
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 4: Like he is involved with like the cover up for

1205
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 4: the players not being as aggressive as you should be

1206
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 4: towards ownership in terms of gave up a seventeenth game,

1207
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 4: dog like that's insane and you got nothing back for it. Yeah,

1208
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 4: So there's a clock though, in terms of how long

1209
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 4: you can like be removed from being a player and

1210
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 4: still be the NFLPA president. And last year Jalen labeling

1211
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 4: he had been out of the league, so his clock

1212
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 4: was almost up.

1213
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 5: I think it's within yes, two years. Two years.

1214
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 4: So if you flaw the league, you're not signing a contract,

1215
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 4: like no one's pursuing you, like you kind of just

1216
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 4: get filed as retired, even if you're not, even if

1217
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 4: you have to come out and say like I'm retired,

1218
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 4: Like there's a bunch of players that never said I'm retired,

1219
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 4: but nobody's signed them, like t Y Hilton. T Y

1220
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 4: Hilton just functually retired, like yeah, two weeks ago. He

1221
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 4: hasn't played like five years, okay, but he has been

1222
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 4: placed in a retired file in the NFL. As far

1223
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 4: as just like labeling things go, and if you are retired,

1224
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 4: if you were labels retired, you can't be the NFLPA president.

1225
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 5: Makes good, perfect sense.

1226
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 4: So okay, this does not sound crazy, probably the people

1227
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 4: who listen to this podcast. Right, If you are one

1228
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 4: of thirty two owners, right, and you have this power

1229
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 4: structure of an organization that you negotiate against the NFLPA,

1230
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 4: this power structure is very friendly towards you. You know,

1231
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 4: they've given you a lot over the past fifteen years

1232
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 4: since he ripped up the two thousand and six Cbah.

1233
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 4: How much would you pay to keep that in place?

1234
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:14,439
Speaker 5: Right?

1235
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 4: Yep?

1236
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 5: How much would you pay to keep it in place?

1237
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 4: And I haven't seen many people talking about this part

1238
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 4: of it, But the Chicago Bears signed Jalen Reeves Maybin

1239
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 4: this fall.

1240
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 5: Oh my god, right to a betterment deal. I looked

1241
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 5: it up.

1242
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 4: I think he played like forty special team snaps for

1243
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 4: them this season. But that resets his clock. That resets

1244
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 4: his clock to be president of the Union. So now

1245
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 4: we get to the end of the season. Yep, Jailerry

1246
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 4: Vaven runs again to be president. I'm not sure anybody

1247
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 4: ran against him. No one's told us who the other

1248
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 4: Cannions were, yep, if there were other candidates, And now

1249
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 4: he's the president of the Union again after he was

1250
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 4: almost barred from it. Does any Bears remember like any

1251
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 4: play the Jaylen Breeze may made?

1252
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: No right? Like I would. I watched every game of

1253
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: that team, y'all. I guess they're like two that I

1254
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 3: missed for those on planes.

1255
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 4: But like no, but okay, but but somethink about it

1256
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 4: from disrespect. If you are an owner and you have

1257
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 4: this power structure that is generating billions capital b billions

1258
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 4: of dollars back in your direction away from the people

1259
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 4: that they represent, would it be worth five hundred thousand

1260
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 4: dollars keep that dolling and a little roster spot at

1261
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 4: the bottom. Absolutely. Now that's the part that I haven't

1262
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 4: seen people you know bring up as much because it

1263
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 4: get stuck on Trader. But Treader's right hand man was

1264
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 4: almost ineligible to be the president of the NFLPA. Yeah,

1265
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 4: and he pops up in this little role when it

1266
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 4: looks like his career is over, like they signed him

1267
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 4: late in the season to play special teams. You should

1268
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 4: bumple some of them in practice squad to go do that,

1269
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 4: because because you want guys that you've already you know,

1270
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 4: developed a relationship, guys you've started you started training working with.

1271
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 5: To get those reps.

1272
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 4: Some outside guy like coming into play special teams that

1273
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 4: you know that's it's.

1274
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 5: Unnecessary, it's unnecessary.

1275
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,479
Speaker 12: It's been out of the lead too, Like, yeah, there's

1276
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 12: no reason to do it unless you, as a power structure,

1277
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 12: are interested in him having eligibility to keep funneling you money, yep,

1278
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 12: at expense of the players.

1279
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I've really changed my tune like on players

1280
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 4: not carrying over the past month, just from talking to guys,

1281
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 4: like because I used to cover the Jets and the

1282
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 4: Giants like for a newspaper here in New York City, Like

1283
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 4: this is what I've done for the past ten years.

1284
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 5: I've met a lot of guys.

1285
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 4: They are like curious because You're like, what is this mechanism? Yeah,

1286
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 4: that is allowing you guys to operate with so much

1287
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 4: secrecy where you have J. C. Tredder, I mean shout

1288
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 4: out to like the people who ran against him or

1289
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 4: were there for a minute, but functionally, like practically he

1290
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 4: ran unopposed for the executive director role, and so you

1291
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 4: whittled it out from three hundred candidates to three and

1292
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 4: one of them is J. C. Tratder and the other

1293
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 4: is the commissioner of like the sixth mostly important college

1294
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 4: football conference in the country. And then a Hollywood movie

1295
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 4: like union exec guy. I mean, that's that's functionally unopposed.

1296
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 4: And then with Jalen reason Laban, we don't even know

1297
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 4: if anyone ran against him. So these guys are just

1298
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 4: walking back into power yep, and the question that I

1299
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 4: and players and other drills have what is that mechanism

1300
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 4: that is operating in the shadows that is allowing us

1301
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 4: to happen and how much is it worth?

1302
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 5: Because now we're coming up.

1303
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 4: On a new CBA negotiation, they're probably going to get

1304
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 4: an eighteen inch game in eighteenth. Like you you have

1305
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 4: gone from in twenty years. You've gone from a spot

1306
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 4: where you had revenue majority, even if it wasn't the

1307
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 4: sixty percent fifty two fifty three, that's better than forty seven.

1308
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 4: And like the literal death of Gene Upshaw, Yeah, it

1309
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 4: like killed this union in a way that I don't

1310
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 4: know if it's recoverable from because you've said precedent over

1311
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 4: two cbas likely to be three, that you will give

1312
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 4: up anything for what though, yeah, for nothing, but for

1313
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 4: what like like Roger Goodell should never be coming out

1314
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 4: and saying I'm glad that j. C. Tretder was named

1315
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 4: the executive, Like j C. Tredder should be a pain

1316
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 4: in his past. No, And it just it's sad to

1317
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 4: me like as someone like who like I love the

1318
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 4: sport so much and to see like what's happening to

1319
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 4: the Union. It's horrible because ultimately, like we're so short

1320
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 4: sighted that you know what what's happening from me, like

1321
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 4: right right now or today, it's the only thing that matters.

1322
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 4: But like there's gonna be real consequences for these guys

1323
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 4: for decades and man, like I remember my first year

1324
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 4: covering the Jets and the Giants for the Alien News

1325
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 4: up here in New York was twenty nineteen, and the

1326
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 4: Jets had a Legends day like where a bunch of

1327
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 4: guys that came back and they were on during halftime.

1328
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 4: It's for crappy teams do when you have nothing to

1329
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 4: talk about then, like you talk about talk about the

1330
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 4: good old this, right, but you know these guys that

1331
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 4: come up and they were hanging out with us in

1332
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 4: the press box before they went down on the field

1333
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 4: of the halftime. These are like fifty year old men

1334
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 4: like on canes and stuff like that, Like like my

1335
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 4: dad's sixty and he still shoots hoops sometimes like at

1336
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 4: the gym, and these are like forty five fifty year

1337
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 4: old men that they can't walk with that assistance that

1338
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 4: are like like they walk around like and they're forgetting like, oh,

1339
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 4: what I just turned this corner to do like all

1340
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 4: the time, like you're talking to them and you have

1341
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 4: to keep reminding like refresh, like refreshing them on what

1342
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 4: we were talking about, as if it's like chat GBT,

1343
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 4: you know, like and it's sad. But when you see

1344
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 4: like like the material restrictions that these guys have in

1345
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 4: their own lives post playing, and these guys like they're

1346
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 4: not all rich, like they're just normal people, it's it's

1347
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 4: sad that this union has capitulated to the owners for

1348
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 4: such a violent job. And sure, like you can say,

1349
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 4: like you know, no one's telling you to be a

1350
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 4: football player, but that's the only option a lot of

1351
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 4: these guys have, like to go be football players and

1352
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 4: to go put their body on the line just so

1353
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 4: their family can live in.

1354
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 5: Comfort for a few years. Oh it's sad.

1355
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's the actual poverty draft. It hits

1356
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 3: way way way more people than the military does, like

1357
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 3: significantly more. And I think it's something that's really really

1358
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 3: really badly understood on the left because it's like people

1359
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 3: on the left head not to care about sports stuff,

1360
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 3: but it's like football is a structural part, but the

1361
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 3: entire American economy. It's a structural part of our the

1362
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 3: entire American educational system, like half of the educational system

1363
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 3: is designed to funnel people into this sport specifically so

1364
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 3: these people could make fucking money off of it. Yes,

1365
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:45,919
Speaker 3: and that stuff shapes everything.

1366
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 4: And I understand, like why left these like they don't

1367
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 4: care about spor us, Like I get it. But if

1368
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 4: the NFL were to cease existing tomorrow, that would be

1369
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 4: like a major collapse within the US economy. Yeah, Like

1370
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm joking. Basically everything you watch, especially now,

1371
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 4: is subsidized by some NFL game, right, Like yeah, that's

1372
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 4: that's why these companies exist. If you if you go

1373
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 4: back every single year and you look at the top

1374
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 4: one hundred most watched TV shows of the year, ninety

1375
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 4: seven of them will be NFL games, yep. And you'll

1376
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 4: have like the two coag football games and like the

1377
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 4: Macy's things giving pretty.

1378
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, maybe like maybe the World Series, right, maybe the

1379
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 7: World Series.

1380
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,640
Speaker 4: Like right, maybe the Oscars can like maybe the Oscars

1381
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 4: versus like Jets Bills like Week twelve, that's.

1382
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: Not flow like throw on a Thursday night like right,

1383
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 3: But that's.

1384
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 5: How big this is.

1385
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 4: And I would implore people to not say, hey, who

1386
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 4: cares about this? It's important And also like there's there's

1387
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 4: there's also just like clear like you look at a game,

1388
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 4: there's clear racial divides. Yeah, and who has to play

1389
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 4: this game and who doesn't have to play this game?

1390
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 4: There are studies that show that like upwards of eighty

1391
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 4: percent of black boys who play sports want to be

1392
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 4: professional athletes.

1393
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 5: I mean, because that's that's it.

1394
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 4: Really like it's that or I'm gonna go do I

1395
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 4: don't fucking know, and and those are really your options.

1396
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 4: And that's why I say, like I've used I've used

1397
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 4: the NFL to kind of figure out my way like

1398
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 4: through you know, how I feel about things, because there's

1399
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,440
Speaker 4: such real like desperation for these people to get out.

1400
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:25,600
Speaker 4: And the problem, like also with the union is like

1401
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 4: let's say, like some of these guys come from nothing,

1402
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 4: Like the fact that they could figure out a way

1403
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 4: to get to a bus that would take them to

1404
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 4: school where they could play.

1405
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 5: Football is like a major accomplishment in the rown.

1406
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 4: And the fact that you can go from that to

1407
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 4: making three hundred thousand dollars in a year at twenty one,

1408
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 4: that will distort you as well, because now you've made

1409
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 4: such an extreme jump so fast, probably gonna be a

1410
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 4: little bit complacent. You might not be thinking about what's

1411
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 4: next because, and I say this for like a twenty

1412
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 4: one year old person, you spent the last twenty years

1413
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 4: of your life fucking fighting, like just to get to

1414
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 4: the next day. I remember one of the crazy thing

1415
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 4: back in the day, like when Laramie Tumpsill was at

1416
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 4: Ole Miss, Like back when they got busted before the

1417
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,679
Speaker 4: nil stuff going out, there's this text thread between Laramie

1418
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 4: Tumpson's OH line coach and his mom saying like, hey,

1419
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 4: can you send money for the light.

1420
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 5: Bill this month?

1421
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a five star starter on your team that

1422
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 4: is generating millions of dollars, and you could get in

1423
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 4: trouble for sending his mom like two hundred bucks to

1424
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,520
Speaker 4: keep the lights one. You know, there's a real like systemic,

1425
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 4: like obvious extraction of value from these black men, and

1426
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 4: once it's over, they say good luck, get fucked until

1427
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 4: you know, we had like the CTE lawsuit where they

1428
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 4: had to payout billions of dollars, but ultimately you just

1429
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 4: kind of come in and get discarded, which is why

1430
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 4: this union is so important, And the fact that you

1431
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 4: can be JC Tretdery use the trust that you have

1432
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 4: earned through your own blood, sweat and tears of being

1433
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 4: an NFL player and good enough to stand on your

1434
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 4: own as like almost a decade long NFL starter. The

1435
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 4: fact that you would use that and turn around and

1436
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 4: like just capitulate the owners like that's scum.

1437
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 5: Ideos it's scum, and it's it's.

1438
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 4: Sad and just everyone here deserves better except for the

1439
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 4: people at top. Yeah, and there needs to be some

1440
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 4: answers on why are you guys doing this? They're not

1441
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 4: doing for no reason. There has to be something there.

1442
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 4: That's the part that we don't know.

1443
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 3: One thing I want to kind of go back to

1444
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 3: you for seconds, like how they're able to do this.

1445
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 3: I don't know the exact mechanisms of how they specifically

1446
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: have been able to do this, because every union is

1447
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,919
Speaker 3: structured like kind of differently. But there's something that's actually,

1448
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 3: unfortunately like pretty common in even sort of like progressive

1449
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 3: unions where you know, like we've had people on this

1450
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 3: show a few times who were trying to dislodge this

1451
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 3: clique that used to run Actually I'm not sure if

1452
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 3: they're still running it, but they used to run the

1453
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 3: big nurses union, like a huge portion of the country's nurses,

1454
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,720
Speaker 3: and so okay. One of the problems here is that,

1455
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 3: like you need elections, even if they're well publicized, even

1456
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 3: if you are trying to get everyone to vote, have

1457
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 3: really really low turnout. Members unless they're really engaged, do

1458
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 3: not pay attention to it. Yeah, and that's not even

1459
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 3: really engaged in the sense of engage in union activities,

1460
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,599
Speaker 3: because even most of the people who like are really

1461
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 3: engaged in like I want to go on strike or

1462
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 3: like I want to I'm gonna show up to this

1463
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 3: like contract session are voting in the union elections because

1464
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 3: no one knows what's happening. No one knows who any

1465
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 3: of the candidates are. It's no one cares. It's like

1466
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 3: it's it's an even more extreme version of the problem

1467
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 3: with like no one voting in regular elections, and so

1468
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 3: with a really small amount of votes, you can just

1469
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 3: get you and your faction installed for generations. Right, Like

1470
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 3: there are admin caucuses in a whole bunch of unions,

1471
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 3: like and we're talking about like like the Teamsters and

1472
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 3: like the union's on that scale. We're like, yeah, there was.

1473
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 3: It was a huge deal when the teamsters like finally

1474
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,120
Speaker 3: ran out their admin caucus. But like, these people are

1475
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 3: in power for half a century, super empowered for like

1476
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 3: generations of these guys are able to stay in these unions,

1477
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 3: and they're able to do it because it's really really

1478
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 3: easy to control union elections, especially once you're empowered. And

1479
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 3: this is something I'm like I've talked about on this

1480
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 3: fucking show. Like I've seen union staffers whose job it

1481
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 3: is to do organizing get fired for telling their own

1482
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 3: members to read a contract there but they were being

1483
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 3: asked to vote on because that was considered a threat

1484
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 3: to the power base, right, And the problem is is

1485
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 3: that once you're running the union, you con troll the

1486
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,600
Speaker 3: jobs of all of the staff in these you and

1487
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 3: one of the things that actually came out in public

1488
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 3: tourist reporting is that they offered anyone who'd been at

1489
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 3: the union for more than seven years a buyout. And

1490
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 3: so you know, you can watch them do like they're

1491
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 3: doing a systemic purge of all of this stuff, and

1492
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 3: then like the moment, Shredder is like leading the search, right,

1493
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 3: he's able to use his position, like his very specific

1494
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,600
Speaker 3: position in this bureaucracy, like as a president of the

1495
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: union to like go change the terms of the search

1496
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 3: so that it's no secret and you can just keep

1497
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 3: using whatever. Every position take over gives you a little

1498
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 3: bit more sort of bureaucratic power that you can use

1499
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 3: to rap fuck people. And once they're in, it's like

1500
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 3: it is possible to dislodge them. Mm hmm, Like, I mean,

1501
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 3: this is something that happened with the UAW in the

1502
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 3: last like that was twenty twenty twenty twenty three. They

1503
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 3: got in and they dis lodged an admin caucus that

1504
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 3: had been in power and like doing similar shit to

1505
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 3: this for like decades and decades and decades. And so

1506
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 3: it is possible for you know, reform caucuses inside the

1507
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 3: Union to organize and drive the leadership out, but it's

1508
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 3: really hard. And the moment you start doing that, like

1509
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 3: every single person who's any way affiliated with you will

1510
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 3: get targeted for retaliation by the union.

1511
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 5: And yes, that that's what has happened.

1512
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah with J. C.

1513
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,559
Speaker 5: Tradder yep again, Pabla Tori.

1514
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 4: He released an interview two weeks ago with you know,

1515
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 4: longtime security officer who was basically one of the people

1516
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 4: who was like Hey, Yeah, what's going on here with

1517
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 4: DoD j C try to Alloyd house stuff?

1518
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 5: And they fired him for that.

1519
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 4: Like the union five the security guy who've been working

1520
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 4: like keep been working there since Like Dean I'm show

1521
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 4: I was working there. So he he's part of the

1522
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 4: old guard that is there for like the material like

1523
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 4: improvement of players' lives, like as far as they can

1524
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 4: take it without you know, dealing with the real bounds

1525
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 4: of like we got to kind of get this number

1526
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 4: for the season or our worker base is gonna be

1527
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 4: harm Like those guys don't really work there anymore. Yeah,

1528
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 4: someone like Dominicq fox Worth, he's like he's on TV now,

1529
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 4: you know, and I know he cares a lot about this,

1530
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,759
Speaker 4: but he's off doing different things. And I think another

1531
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 4: thing that that's tough when you look back at like okay,

1532
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 4: who is playing football. These are ultimately young men who

1533
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 4: like they enter this union without any knowledge of like

1534
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 4: how unions work, Like what are the finances behind any

1535
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 4: of this? You're geared to take like your high school

1536
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 4: free time and your college free time, especially now that

1537
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,679
Speaker 4: these colleges are throwing out cash, like you are honed

1538
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 4: to care about football and get football done, and you know,

1539
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 4: once we get to college, like we'll see what it is.

1540
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 4: Hopefully you can get your degree and keep it moving.

1541
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 4: But most of the time, like these guys, they don't

1542
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 4: know what any of this stuff is. So you have

1543
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 4: like this very uninformed, you know, labor force that's getting

1544
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 4: turned out two three years at a time. It would

1545
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 4: probably be pretty easy, honestly, to create a blockade of

1546
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 4: knowledge when the people who could be asking you about

1547
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 4: this are going to be irrelevant if you just hold

1548
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 4: the lines for a year, you know, it's sad.

1549
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 3: The other thing about this, right is that these guys

1550
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 3: don't have even the basic concentive that even like the

1551
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 3: UAW and their moost In Trench had, which is like,

1552
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 3: if you fuck this up enough, there won't be a union.

1553
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 3: It was like these guys, there's always going to be

1554
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 3: something called the NFL Players Association, right because the NFL

1555
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,720
Speaker 3: needs it for cover, which means they don't even have

1556
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 3: to do the minimal organizing worker like even the minimal

1557
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 3: like pretending to actually fight for the people who are

1558
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 3: supposed to be the union because it doesn't matter to them,

1559
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 3: Like why the fuck would they why the fuck would

1560
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 3: they try to onboard new people, like into the union,

1561
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 3: get them involved with the Like why do they care?

1562
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:03,680
Speaker 3: They can just fucking go home and like pash their

1563
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,519
Speaker 3: checks and get whatever the fuck benefits are getting from

1564
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 3: the league for doing this shit.

1565
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I want to know those benefits are. I

1566
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 4: just want to know.

1567
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 3: Yep, me too. I would love like really.

1568
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 5: Because when it gets down to like how much is

1569
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 5: your soul worth? Man?

1570
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, like j C is one of those guys ultimately

1571
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 4: who has made enough money playing in football where he.

1572
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 5: Doesn't have to do this. Yeah, you know, he doesn't

1573
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 5: have to go around like this.

1574
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 4: Like it's it's a little baffling in that sense, Like

1575
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,600
Speaker 4: and I know that, like I guess something that I

1576
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 4: guess I struggle sometimes.

1577
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 5: Like why are y'all doing this fuck up shit? Like why?

1578
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 4: Like it's really like that, like a couple more bucks

1579
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 4: really means that much to you, Like you're really willing

1580
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 4: to sell out all these people? But the answer is yes,

1581
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 4: The answer is yes. Personally, I can't reconcile that it's abhorrent.

1582
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 4: It's terrible, but it's just the truth of the matter

1583
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 4: is so hopefully they can figure out a way to

1584
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 4: kind of dismantle this, but like man, even the fact

1585
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 4: that like man, you got like the Bears, they signed

1586
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 4: you and made all of a sudden like his clocks back,

1587
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 4: and now you have the same power structure as you

1588
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 4: hit another landmark where you're gonna be negotiating for eighteen games.

1589
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 4: That's a tough thing topple open man, that's a tough

1590
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 4: thing get past. It's really difficult. Yeah, eat at Arby's. Actually,

1591
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 4: don't do that.

1592
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 5: Army is not good.

1593
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 3: No, it's just well, I think that's a decent point

1594
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 3: to sort of end. Don unless you have a Yeah,

1595
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 3: do you have anything else? Do you want to make

1596
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 3: sure people know about this whole thing?

1597
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 4: I would say, like, if you're not watching football, you should.

1598
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 4: It's a great game. I look, I say this as

1599
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 4: somewhere football has like materially harmed me. Like my back

1600
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 4: is messed up. I've had two hernie a dis my

1601
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:48,639
Speaker 4: back son seventeen, I turned thirty two this year. It's

1602
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 4: like half my life, you know, would I do it again?

1603
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 5: Fuck?

1604
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, don't I don't know?

1605
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 4: And like this this is where like my my like

1606
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 4: the people who know me, they like, man, you're wired

1607
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 4: a little differently, But I think that standard for football players.

1608
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 4: Like it's a really complicated relationship, but like all my

1609
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 4: best friends are still like football related in some way,

1610
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 4: whether it's college or journalism now or you know.

1611
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 5: Going back to high school back in the day.

1612
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 4: Like I still talk to so many people that I

1613
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 4: played football with, Like I'm watching like I'm the guy

1614
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 4: watching these like crappy like Division two games like on

1615
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 4: a on a Friday night. It's it's awesome. So like

1616
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, you should check out Lamar Jackson, Like

1617
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 4: just go on YouTube, just look up a highlight and then.

1618
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 3: This is it's just wild. Like you know when you when.

1619
01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 4: You've watched football or really any of these sports, like

1620
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,599
Speaker 4: they are just inescapable. I hate to even say micro

1621
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 4: consins of like American society because like this is obviously

1622
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 4: this is this is American society. Like when you just

1623
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 4: look on the influence that football has, like the economy

1624
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 4: as a whole, and the way that people who are

1625
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 4: less fortunate are able to be extracted and run into

1626
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 4: the ground, yeah, and forgotten even by the people who

1627
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,680
Speaker 4: are supposed to protect them. I think that's something that

1628
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 4: we see here just about every arena of American life.

1629
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 5: So I would just.

1630
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 4: Implore some of our our fellow leftisium don't be the

1631
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 4: who cares about sports, because whether you know about it,

1632
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 4: sports is interacting and directly impacting your life in this

1633
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 4: country every single day. And I think it's important to

1634
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 4: kind of care about some of the labor practices that

1635
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,439
Speaker 4: are going on. Even if you know the labor practices

1636
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 4: are around Lamar Jackson getting paid you know, sixty million

1637
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 4: dollars a year over fifty million dollars a year, but

1638
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 4: it's still it's still important.

1639
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And I think there's I think there's

1640
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 3: two there's two points I can make there. One is

1641
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 3: that like, yeah, I don't know, like it was it was.

1642
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,600
Speaker 3: It was the fucking like transwomanted college sports thing was

1643
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 3: like one of the two avenues through which like, oh wait,

1644
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 3: hold on, a bunch of us just don't have fucking

1645
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 3: rights now. Yeah, And you know, and like and that

1646
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 3: that kind of like cultural stuff that comes out of

1647
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,600
Speaker 3: places that we're just not usually.

1648
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 4: Right right, and just to tack onto that, as we've

1649
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 4: seen over the past few months and as many dangered

1650
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 4: and misrepresented and punched down communities have said to y'all

1651
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 4: forever and I say this as a black person. If

1652
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 4: they do it to us, yep, we'll do it to you.

1653
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 4: At some points, it's just sad that like we've gotten

1654
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 4: to the point where, you know, you've been fighting and

1655
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 4: screaming for so long, like, bro, could you just turn

1656
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 4: your head this way and just look you see, Like.

1657
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 5: Bro, we're the same man. We're all just humans out

1658
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 5: here trying to make it.

1659
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:44,720
Speaker 4: That thought process is just so violently opposed by the

1660
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,120
Speaker 4: powers it be, and it's just so ingrained in our society,

1661
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 4: like certain people have to get stepped on that you

1662
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 4: will let yourself get stepped on. And now, shit, we

1663
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 4: got videos of you know, people getting executed in the

1664
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 4: street in Minneapolis, and what's happened.

1665
01:22:58,680 --> 01:23:00,440
Speaker 5: Nothing, just like.

1666
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:02,839
Speaker 4: Every other police shooting, you know, of a black person

1667
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 4: or or a transperson getting killed, Like, yeah, nothing happened,

1668
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 4: and nothing keeps happening, and ultimately we get to a

1669
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 4: point where that's just the norm. So shit, there's a

1670
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 4: lot of stuff to fight. But you can even see

1671
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,720
Speaker 4: like how the NFL union has followed that stame like deterioration.

1672
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:19,120
Speaker 1: Yep.

1673
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 4: Shit, you know, you go back to the twenty eleventh CBA,

1674
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 4: you threw the rookies under the bus, and then what

1675
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,599
Speaker 4: the omners do? They came and took your money too, right,

1676
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 4: And then when it came down to you know, the

1677
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 4: twenty twenty CBA, you guys have set such a precedent

1678
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 4: of us running your pockets that we will set the hard,

1679
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 4: non negotiable stance of an extra football game and you

1680
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 4: will capitulate. That's everywhere, man, that that is everywhere in

1681
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,000
Speaker 4: the corporate structure and lafe of America. So yeah, yeah,

1682
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 4: sports in is capable. Check out Lamar Jackson. On some days,

1683
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 4: it's good stuff.

1684
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I think.

1685
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:52,599
Speaker 10: I think.

1686
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 3: The one last thing I want to say is that,

1687
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 3: you know, the reform calock is taking over the UAW

1688
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 3: with something that was seen as impossible. Like it was

1689
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 3: like literally, I mean like every union has a reform caucus,

1690
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 3: they normally lose every single time, and then one day

1691
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 3: they won and it like completely changed what the labor

1692
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 3: movement in America is. And you know, the thing, the

1693
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,560
Speaker 3: thing about organizing reform caucuses is that I know that

1694
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 3: people who organize these things like they're just random people. Yeah,

1695
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 3: like anyone can do this. This is this is not

1696
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 3: something that requires like you know, an incredibly specialized skill set,

1697
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 3: you can just do it. And as much like actual

1698
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:34,160
Speaker 3: teenagers do this shit watching people and how tenaciously they

1699
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 3: can fight and watching them win. That that's how I

1700
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 3: get out of bed in the morning, is I have

1701
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 3: I have seen the hope in how how people can

1702
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 3: fight fights that are just unwinnable, that are so unfathomable

1703
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 3: that most people don't even think there's a point in

1704
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 3: fighting it, and then one day they win. Yeah, and

1705
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 3: yeah maybe one day well.

1706
01:24:57,439 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 4: Two, I mean, I mean yeah, and if you just

1707
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 4: think about the basis of the NFL PA, because now

1708
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 4: it's an anti trust blocker, right, that's what it is now,

1709
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 4: But the roots of it, yeah, there were guys trying

1710
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 4: to get rights for they trying to get paid for

1711
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:14,639
Speaker 4: the amount of time that they put into this job.

1712
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 4: One of the base complaints is when the league was

1713
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 4: smaller and you had like kind of other leagues you

1714
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,600
Speaker 4: know that are defunked now or were absorbed by the

1715
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 4: AFC or the NFC before it all merged the NFL.

1716
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 4: One of the basises was the NFL owners would ban

1717
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 4: you if you played in another league, like if you

1718
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 4: spent any time playing another league.

1719
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 5: They would ban you for five years. Man, that's your

1720
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 5: whole career, right. Yeah, And I don't know if this

1721
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,639
Speaker 5: made the show, if we're talking about before the show, but.

1722
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,720
Speaker 4: One of the things that got the NFLP like organized

1723
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:46,519
Speaker 4: in the fifties was guys were doing training camp in

1724
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,640
Speaker 4: preseason games for free. They weren't getting paid for it.

1725
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 4: But these are just regular men who are just like,

1726
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 4: fuck it, I'm tired of this. Yeah, And sadly it

1727
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 4: has been co opted into something that does not represent

1728
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 4: what it was before. But you know, this stuff is

1729
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 4: started by reckless people who are saying, fuck it, I'm

1730
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:04,160
Speaker 4: tired of this. We got to make a change.

1731
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think on that note, where can people

1732
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 3: find your work?

1733
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:12,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can find me on blue Sky or verts.

1734
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 4: You can find me on Yahoo Sports Football three oh

1735
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:18,680
Speaker 4: one podcast. I'm trying to be found a little bit

1736
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 4: less these days.

1737
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 3: That's so reasonable blue Sky can find for.

1738
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 5: The most part. Yeah, you know, it's a little less.

1739
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 3: I get there's a read. There's a reason I'm not

1740
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 3: putting by handling.

1741
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I will say this is not necessarily a

1742
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 4: friendly blue Sky count. I'm not one of those guys

1743
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 4: who's just gonna let you pop off. We do clap

1744
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 4: back around here, right.

1745
01:26:45,080 --> 01:27:17,439
Speaker 13: We do, in fact love to see Yeah.

1746
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 14: Hello everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. My

1747
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 14: name is Daniel Kurd. I'm a researcher of Arab in

1748
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 14: Palestinian politics. Today I'm joined by Molli Krabapple, an award

1749
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 14: winning writer and artist.

1750
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 6: She's written three books.

1751
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 14: Is co author of the book Brothers of the Gun

1752
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 14: and Illustrated Collaboration with Syrian war journalist Montjuan Hisham, which

1753
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 14: was a New York Times Notable Book and longlisted for

1754
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 14: the twenty eighteen National Book Award, and her memoir Drawing

1755
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 14: Bud also received global praise. Her most recent book is

1756
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 14: Here Where We Live Is Our Country, The Story of

1757
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 14: the Jewish Bund, and it'll be out on April seventh.

1758
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:37,839
Speaker 6: I've already pre ordered. I'm very excited.

1759
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 14: So I wanted to talk to Mollie today given how

1760
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 14: relevant the history she outlines in her book is to

1761
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 14: this current moment, especially for the American Jewish community.

1762
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:48,719
Speaker 6: So thank you Mollie for joining us.

1763
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Donna for having me. It's my

1764
01:27:51,080 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 1: total honor to be here.

1765
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 14: So you describe in the book The Bunns Philosophy of

1766
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 14: doy k or hearness as a rejection of the idea

1767
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 14: that Jews need to seek a homeland elsewhere to find safety.

1768
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 6: How did you come to understand this concept personally?

1769
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 14: And why do you think it was, at least from

1770
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:15,719
Speaker 14: my perspective, so thoroughly erased from mainstream Jewish historical memory

1771
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:16,640
Speaker 14: after the Holocaust.

1772
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 15: I mean I came across dokit through studying the Booned,

1773
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 15: which I came across through the watercolors of my great

1774
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 15: grandfather Samuel Brothboord, who was a post Impressionist painter who

1775
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 15: was a member of the boond as a young man.

1776
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 1: Back in Russia.

1777
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 15: And the concept of dokite or heereness means is it's

1778
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 15: a defiant assertion of rootedness in a place that wanted

1779
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 15: Jews dead. Jews had lived in Eastern Europe for over

1780
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 15: a thousand years, but in the eighteenth, nineteenth and at

1781
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 15: the dawn of the twentieth century, these countries were some

1782
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 15: of the roughest places to be a Jew in the world.

1783
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:57,679
Speaker 15: In the Tsarist Empire, Jews were racialized minority. It set

1784
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 15: it on their papers. They could only like live in

1785
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:03,200
Speaker 15: a certain area. There was military conscription for twenty five years.

1786
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 15: It sucked, shall we say. And in inter war Poland

1787
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 15: as well, the government was trying to use racism as

1788
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 15: a glue to hold this diverse and quite impoverished country together.

1789
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 15: So what here this meant is it meant that Jews

1790
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 15: had the right to live and not just live, not

1791
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:26,719
Speaker 15: just survive, not just cling to life, but to flourish

1792
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 15: and have beautiful lives in their homes that they had

1793
01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 15: lived in for the last thousand years. And that even

1794
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 15: if European Christians thought that Jews were, you know, Sath,

1795
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 15: the Oriental aliens who needed to be forcibly deported to Palestine,

1796
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 15: which is exactly what the Polish interwar government thought, even

1797
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:46,800
Speaker 15: if that's what the was in power thought, Jews had

1798
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 15: a right to live and flourish in freedom and dignity

1799
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:51,879
Speaker 15: in their homes, because that's the right that every single

1800
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 15: human on this earth has. And in many ways it

1801
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 15: almost reminds me of this like precursor echo of the

1802
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,519
Speaker 15: Palestinian concept of some mood, of the steadfastness to stay

1803
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 15: in your home despite the genocidal predations of the Israeli state.

1804
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 15: And I think that the concept of heareness was crushed

1805
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 15: by a variety of things. I mean, first of all,

1806
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 15: as we all know, you know, there was a genocide

1807
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 15: in Europe that wiped out two thirds of European Jews

1808
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 15: and wiped out ninety percent of the Jews in Poland.

1809
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:23,720
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just that.

1810
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,799
Speaker 15: It was also that after the genocide, countries like Poland

1811
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 15: were so psychopathically violent to Jewish survivors that it convinced

1812
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 15: the overwhelming majority of Polish Jewish survivors that they had

1813
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 15: to go somewhere else. There are about a thousand Jews

1814
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 15: that were murdered by nationalists in the aftermath of the Holocaust,

1815
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,000
Speaker 15: including you know, dozens who were burned alive in this

1816
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 15: like famous town called Kiltze. Now, whether that somewhere else

1817
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 15: meant Palestine or whether that meant New York City, that

1818
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 15: was something that was very much up to the visa

1819
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 15: regimes of the era. The vast majority of Jews who

1820
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:05,759
Speaker 15: survived the Holocaust did not necessarily want to go to Palestine,

1821
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 15: let alone to you know, sign up to join the

1822
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 15: Haganah and throw themselves as cannon fodder into another war.

1823
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: After surviving Auschwitz. The majority of Jewish survivors probably.

1824
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 15: Wanted to go live with their families in America and

1825
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 15: in other countries that had large Jewish communities, But the

1826
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 15: Western democracies, And tell me if this sounds familiar in

1827
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 15: the current moment. While the Western democracies preached a language

1828
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 15: of human rights and universalism, in practice they were quite

1829
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 15: content to let impoverished refugees wrought in camps. Does that

1830
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 15: I could see no other echoes? Of course not No,

1831
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 15: it has only happened once ever, Yeah, yeah, definitely we've

1832
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 15: learned our lesson, and yeah, exactly, the world has definitely

1833
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 15: learned this lesson about the corrosive effects of hypocrisy. And

1834
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:56,760
Speaker 15: so Zionist groups were able to take over camp administrations

1835
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:00,080
Speaker 15: and use them as recruiting grounds and to convince and

1836
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 15: in fact sometimes violently coerce survivors to go to Palestine

1837
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 15: and in many cases to do the Nakba. And I

1838
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 15: think that these are the concrete reasons, right that the

1839
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 15: concept of Dokhite was so crushed, so erased, right like

1840
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:21,679
Speaker 15: it was physically erased, you know, violence. But there's something

1841
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:24,679
Speaker 15: more than that, even because you know, there are many,

1842
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:27,719
Speaker 15: many movements that are physically crushed with violence, whose memories

1843
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 15: are vivid and alive and resonant to think about, like

1844
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:33,759
Speaker 15: the Black Panther Party in America, you know, who were

1845
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 15: subject to the most brutal violence by the state, but

1846
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 15: who you know, remain as legends. And I think the

1847
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 15: reason that the Boones wasn't just physically crushed by the

1848
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:47,520
Speaker 15: twentieth century, but the reason that it was so ideologically

1849
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 15: marginalized was because they always opposed Zionism.

1850
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 1: From the very first days of their founding. They opposed

1851
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:54,719
Speaker 1: Zionism as.

1852
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 15: A capitulation to the same European racists that wanted to

1853
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 15: kick Jews out of their home. And not only did

1854
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 15: they oppose Zionism because many Jewish groups opposed Zionism. The

1855
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 15: Satmar Pasidic community where I live also opposed Zionism. It

1856
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 15: wasn't just the Boon's opposition to Zionism that made Zionis

1857
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 15: so angry. It's that Zionism is built on this very

1858
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 15: self hating dichotomy. And that dichotomy is that there are

1859
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 15: diaspora Jews who were weak and that's why they were murdered,

1860
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 15: and then there are you know, the brave, big Dick

1861
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:32,840
Speaker 15: Israeli Sabras who are strong and bravely oppressing and murdering themselves,

1862
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 15: and that's why they live. And what the booned did

1863
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 15: was it shows the lie of that because the boones

1864
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 15: were strong. They didn't just fight for their right to

1865
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:44,640
Speaker 15: stay in Europe with graduate school seminars.

1866
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 1: They fought for it with brass knuckles and with guns.

1867
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 15: The statement here where we live is our country isn't

1868
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 15: something that has the same meaning as it would mean

1869
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 15: if I said it in New York City, like, of

1870
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,639
Speaker 15: course New York is my city.

1871
01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 1: It's fucking awesome.

1872
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 15: When they said it, I always felt like there was

1873
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 15: an implied motherfucker at the end. Here where we live

1874
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 15: as our country, motherfucker. Whether you like it or not,

1875
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:08,080
Speaker 15: we're born here and it's ours right.

1876
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 6: It's so powerful.

1877
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 14: And I'm glad that you mentioned other kind of ideological

1878
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 14: like resonances, like the Black Panthers. They don't really exist

1879
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 14: in the same way anymore, but they're still resonant in

1880
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 14: like black lives matter. It brings me to this next question,

1881
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:29,720
Speaker 14: which is that especially younger Jewish Americans, they increasingly are questioning,

1882
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:34,160
Speaker 14: you know, Zionist narratives and they describe their solidarity with

1883
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 14: Palestinians not as a rejection of Jewish identity, but as

1884
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 14: a expression of their commitment to universal justice, and as

1885
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 14: a rejection maybe I'm Zionism, but not their Judaism. Do

1886
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:46,400
Speaker 14: you think that this is a boon dist inheritance even

1887
01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,960
Speaker 14: if I'm conscious, or is it something new?

1888
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 15: I think that decent people of all stripes are seeing

1889
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 15: what Palestinian journalists and Lebanese journalists have risked their lives exposing.

1890
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 15: They're seeing a genus live streamed on their smartphones, and

1891
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 15: you know, live streamed by these amazing journalists, you know,

1892
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,600
Speaker 15: who are living in killing cages. And anyone who's a

1893
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:10,760
Speaker 15: decent person, whether you're Jewish or not, will turn away

1894
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:13,680
Speaker 15: from the ideology that is responsible for that genocide. So

1895
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:17,400
Speaker 15: I wouldn't say it's a bondust resonance that's making people

1896
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 15: turn against you know, Zionist institutions. I think it's just

1897
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 15: their basic humanity, the same as so many other groups

1898
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 15: of people are. And I credited a lot to the

1899
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,519
Speaker 15: amazing work of Palestinians who have done so much work

1900
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:31,840
Speaker 15: with so much grace at you know, such huge risks

1901
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:33,759
Speaker 15: of their lives to be able to tell.

1902
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 1: These stories for the world to know at least see.

1903
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 15: However, I think that there's something a little bit different

1904
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:41,679
Speaker 15: going on, which is that, you know, young Jews are

1905
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 15: seeing the Israeli mass murder machine for what it is.

1906
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 1: But if they've gone.

1907
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,360
Speaker 15: Through like the standard issue you know, like Hebrew school education,

1908
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 15: they don't really learn a lot about Jewish history. Like

1909
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:58,440
Speaker 15: the way you would learn about it would be ancient kingdoms,

1910
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:01,360
Speaker 15: the par Kocopa revolt maybe if you're lucky, and then

1911
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:04,759
Speaker 15: like a big, long, you know, two thousand year gap

1912
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 15: of horror and murder where nothing interesting or go what

1913
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 15: ever happened, and where you were just a victim of

1914
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 15: all of history, and then you know, glorious creation of

1915
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 15: the state of Israel redemption.

1916
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 1: Like that's the sort of bullshit narrative you'd get.

1917
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:21,720
Speaker 15: And when young Jews reject that narrative, as they should,

1918
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:23,720
Speaker 15: you know, when they learn about the reality of what

1919
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 15: Zionism means, a lot of them are left with a

1920
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:29,719
Speaker 15: real hole in them because they haven't like learned anything

1921
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:33,799
Speaker 15: positive about their own heritage. They've just been fed fairy

1922
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 15: tales that are meant to you know, legitimize this state,

1923
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 15: and so you know, there's like a lot of a

1924
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 15: lot of shame, rite a lot of pain over that.

1925
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: And I think what a lot of.

1926
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 15: Young Jewish people are trying to do is they're trying

1927
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 15: to look back to like their own grandparents and their

1928
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 15: own great grandparents. And for Jews in America, like most

1929
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:54,640
Speaker 15: Jews in America come from Eastern European backgrounds, you know,

1930
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 15: it's a different, different sort of demographic breakdown than in Israel.

1931
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 15: And that sort of Jewish socialism is something that's very,

1932
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 15: very very present in so many people's family history. Not

1933
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 15: necessarily that you know, your grandfather was like the greatest

1934
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,759
Speaker 15: socialist revolutionary in the world, but just that he belonged

1935
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 15: to a socialist garment union and was part of like

1936
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 15: a socialist mutual aid thing, because that was just the

1937
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 15: culture that so many American Jews swam in one hundred

1938
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 15: years ago. And so I think there's this huge rediscovery

1939
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 15: of the boond and of Jewish socialism that's inspired by

1940
01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 15: the rejection of the Chinesst genocide.

1941
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 14: On the one hand, I'm witnessing what you're saying, you know,

1942
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:46,720
Speaker 14: like we're all kind of witnessing, like I said, it's

1943
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:50,439
Speaker 14: not specifically to the Jewish community, but because the Jewish

1944
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:55,680
Speaker 14: community has been fed, you know, this idea that is

1945
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:59,560
Speaker 14: really so integral to their Jewishness and to their safety

1946
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,680
Speaker 14: and to this, to these kinds of things, there is

1947
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:05,519
Speaker 14: a very maybe specific way that they are metabolizing that

1948
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:09,080
Speaker 14: or acting out against it. But at the same time,

1949
01:38:09,080 --> 01:38:11,960
Speaker 14: you know, we've seen a number of different polls, including

1950
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,639
Speaker 14: most recently the Jewish Federations of North America.

1951
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 6: They put out.

1952
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 14: Polling results where thirty seven percent identified as non Zionists

1953
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:25,000
Speaker 14: and seven percent of their polling identified as anti Zionists.

1954
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,360
Speaker 6: But it was an interesting.

1955
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 14: Poll because it's like both people who were like critical

1956
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:32,760
Speaker 14: of Israel and those who were supportive of Israel took

1957
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 14: it to mean that it, you know, confirmed their biases

1958
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:42,000
Speaker 14: because despite the fact that the genocide has happened and

1959
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 14: is happening, that anti Zionism component hasn't really risen very much.

1960
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 14: And then still a lot of polls show that, like

1961
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 14: people presume Israel is vital to Jewish continuity.

1962
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 6: So how do you make sense of that contradiction? Well,

1963
01:38:57,280 --> 01:38:58,840
Speaker 6: that's one question is how do you make sense of

1964
01:38:58,920 --> 01:38:59,519
Speaker 6: that contradiction?

1965
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 14: But the second question is like, do you think rediscovering

1966
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 14: bundestaught like offers a way through it?

1967
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 15: I do, actually, I mean I think that you know,

1968
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 15: people have not just like been fed this idea that

1969
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 15: Israel is you know, like essential for their safety for continuity,

1970
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:15,919
Speaker 15: but also that it's like an essential part of themselves.

1971
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:20,040
Speaker 15: And I do think that it's very life affirming and

1972
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 15: important to know that you have something better that you

1973
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 15: can reject this shitty ideology.

1974
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 1: I mean, in terms of polls, I often feel like, I.

1975
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,240
Speaker 15: Mean, maybe I'm maybe I'm just wrong about Americans, but

1976
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 15: I sometimes feel like people don't even know what the

1977
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 15: hell they're signing on to with poles, like I will

1978
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 15: see something where people be like, we want strong borders

1979
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:41,200
Speaker 15: and to like you know, deport all the illegals, but

1980
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:43,920
Speaker 15: also we fucking hate Ice, And I'm like, you just

1981
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:46,320
Speaker 15: you just want like wildly contradictory things.

1982
01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 1: And I wonder like how.

1983
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,960
Speaker 15: I don't know, like how educated people even are, and

1984
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 15: how much like the framing of questions affects what people think.

1985
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to think of what to make

1986
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 1: of it.

1987
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:01,080
Speaker 15: I mean, I do think, you know, very sadly, like

1988
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 15: there are a large number of you know, American Jewish people.

1989
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 15: And in some way I'm talking like outside of my

1990
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,680
Speaker 15: own experience because my own family's not Zionist, so this

1991
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:12,680
Speaker 15: is more like my speculation type thing.

1992
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: But you know, they're they're very progressive. They believe in

1993
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 1: you know, like ETI kid for all.

1994
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:23,120
Speaker 15: They believe in you know, they believe the cops shouldn't

1995
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,360
Speaker 15: be constantly murdering black people as they do in America

1996
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:25,840
Speaker 15: all the time.

1997
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:27,520
Speaker 1: They believe even ice should be abolished.

1998
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 15: But they also have this like unthinking emotional attachment to Israel,

1999
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:37,600
Speaker 15: even if they literally hate everything that Israel's doing. And

2000
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:39,559
Speaker 15: I feel like a lot of those people, what they'll

2001
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 15: do is they'll try to blame it on net Yahoo

2002
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,439
Speaker 15: and not on the entire system, Like like I would

2003
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:47,320
Speaker 15: see people who supported the protests, you know, over the

2004
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:51,720
Speaker 15: judicial reform, but they weren't willing to like fully confront

2005
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 15: the absolute fucking horrors not just of the occupation but

2006
01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:57,520
Speaker 15: of Israel itself.

2007
01:40:58,280 --> 01:40:59,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

2008
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:02,799
Speaker 14: I've also, you know, obviously experienced that kind of block,

2009
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 14: you know, where it's easier to blame a particular government

2010
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 14: than to maybe think about, i mean the specificities of

2011
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 14: Israel's founding and Israel's ideology, but also like the violent

2012
01:41:16,479 --> 01:41:19,719
Speaker 14: nature of nation states, and like just kind of thinking

2013
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 14: through that I think can be a little bit difficult

2014
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 14: for people. And as someone who works on polling, like, yes,

2015
01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 14: there are so many contradictions. We take polling to understand

2016
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:34,600
Speaker 14: the starting points, but that doesn't restrict our political imagination.

2017
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 14: Like that's how I think of it. It's obviously also

2018
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 14: difficult for people to start to kind of maybe disentangle

2019
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,640
Speaker 14: their emotional commitments to the state of Israel, especially in

2020
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:51,760
Speaker 14: this moment where there are like white supremacists and Nazis

2021
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 14: and neo Nazis and all sorts of evil people regaining

2022
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:01,120
Speaker 14: control of all sorts of you know, state institutions and

2023
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:05,080
Speaker 14: finding you know, a great deal of legitimacy and a

2024
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:07,280
Speaker 14: great deal of traction amongst the American public.

2025
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 6: It's difficult to tell. I think some parts of the

2026
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:10,960
Speaker 6: American Jewish.

2027
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:14,439
Speaker 14: Community like, hey, Israel's not a safety valve for you,

2028
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:18,680
Speaker 14: when in fact there's so much anti Semitism now in

2029
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 14: the United States.

2030
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 15: I mean, I feel like it's a self reinforcing loop.

2031
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:23,679
Speaker 16: Though.

2032
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,920
Speaker 15: I mean, on one hand, you have Jewish institutions who

2033
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:33,599
Speaker 15: are literally sticking up this fucking flag of a state

2034
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 15: that is conducted by the ICC of doing genocide and

2035
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,760
Speaker 15: you know, waving that flag around and having soldiers from

2036
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 15: an army that's doing a genocide speaking there like honored

2037
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:45,760
Speaker 15: guests and saying like, this is what it means to

2038
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 15: be Jewish.

2039
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: It's that we back Israel.

2040
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 15: And on the other hand, you have these wormy little

2041
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:56,559
Speaker 15: neo Nazis like Nick Fuentes who have always hated Jews,

2042
01:42:56,560 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 15: and not because of Israel. Nick Fuentes also thinks all

2043
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:01,559
Speaker 15: women should be put in reading camps and all black

2044
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:03,200
Speaker 15: people should be locked behind bars.

2045
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,160
Speaker 1: Keats Jews because he's a neo Nazi.

2046
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:10,920
Speaker 15: Who are seeing the rightful anger that people have with

2047
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 15: the ongoing genocide, and they're seeing people's disillusionment with both

2048
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:21,320
Speaker 15: political parties who are continuing to provide weapons and QN

2049
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:24,519
Speaker 15: cover to Israel, and they're exploiting that. And that's something

2050
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,599
Speaker 15: that fascism has always done, right, Like fascism has always

2051
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:31,200
Speaker 15: exploited issues that are popular. It will try to exploit

2052
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:34,640
Speaker 15: the desire that people have for peace, for instance, it

2053
01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:38,639
Speaker 15: will try to exploit the desire people have for economic justice.

2054
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:41,519
Speaker 15: But instead of you know, actually giving people economic justice.

2055
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:43,880
Speaker 15: They'll just say, oh, it's the Jews, Oh it's the

2056
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:48,080
Speaker 15: leftist billionaires, or it's George Soros, and yeah, like you

2057
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 15: absolutely see some of the worst scumbags on earth who

2058
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:57,760
Speaker 15: are exploiting the anger that people feel over the genocide

2059
01:43:57,880 --> 01:44:01,360
Speaker 15: in order to worm their way into power and to

2060
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 15: worm their way into legitimacy.

2061
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:04,640
Speaker 1: And I always think about this with Tucker Carlson.

2062
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 15: I mean, for me, like, okay, like he's like, you know,

2063
01:44:07,479 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 15: standard issue he has anti Jewish shit, that's like standard

2064
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 15: issue Christian shit. But like, for me, the thing that's

2065
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:17,719
Speaker 15: so I hate so much about seeing smart people boost

2066
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,799
Speaker 15: Tucker Carlson is that Tucker Carlson advocates the ethnic cleansing

2067
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:24,559
Speaker 15: of the United States of immigrants. Ten months ago, he

2068
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:28,760
Speaker 15: was on Megan Kelly praying about how he wanted one

2069
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:31,000
Speaker 15: million people deported in Trump's hundred days.

2070
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:33,320
Speaker 1: He was even saying, we don't have to put them

2071
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:34,200
Speaker 1: into tention centers.

2072
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:36,519
Speaker 15: We can just force a million people, a million people

2073
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,600
Speaker 15: over the border into Tijuana and quote, let the Mexicans

2074
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:43,599
Speaker 15: deal with them. This is hardcore white supremacist ethnic cleansing,

2075
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:46,000
Speaker 15: and it's not just a speculative thing. There are tens

2076
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:48,439
Speaker 15: of thousands of immigrants right now in concentration camps in

2077
01:44:48,479 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 15: the US. And the fact that anyone, because he gives

2078
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 15: good clip on Palestine, thinks that he's their ally when

2079
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 15: he would happily support the same eye system that is

2080
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:02,639
Speaker 15: locking up Palestinians right now, is insane.

2081
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: It's madness. And I just I mean, I know that.

2082
01:45:06,439 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 15: People are so traumatized and so heartbroken and you know,

2083
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:14,680
Speaker 15: even being like driven crazy by the ongoing genocide and

2084
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:19,400
Speaker 15: by the American enthusiastic collusion with the genocide. But there

2085
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:22,760
Speaker 15: has to be a certain basic level of solidarity with

2086
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,600
Speaker 15: other groups who are also under threat, like all the

2087
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:27,600
Speaker 15: other immigrant communities that are getting round and I've been

2088
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:29,320
Speaker 15: putting in concentration camps right now.

2089
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:32,759
Speaker 14: No, absolutely, I mean there has to be a basic

2090
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:35,639
Speaker 14: minimum level of solidarity and like a basic minimum level

2091
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 14: of like analysis, like yeah, yeah, exactly. The animating force

2092
01:45:40,120 --> 01:45:43,720
Speaker 14: behind Tucker Carlson is not love for Palestinians or like

2093
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:47,880
Speaker 14: some you know, desire for justice or anything, you know,

2094
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 14: So it's like the natural conclusion of attacker Carls and

2095
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,439
Speaker 14: is something like the ethnic cleansing that he's asking for

2096
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,559
Speaker 14: it has been disturbing to seek and continue to see

2097
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 14: how people have really convince themselves that this is something

2098
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:05,760
Speaker 14: to try to capitalize on. I mean, Tucker Carlson went

2099
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:09,639
Speaker 14: to the Middle East and people were taking photos with him,

2100
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:13,040
Speaker 14: and I'm like, this man hates you. This man doesn't

2101
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 14: care about any of these things that you care about.

2102
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 14: But like you said, it's just the situation is so

2103
01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 14: bad that people are willing to forego solidarity and basic

2104
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:36,760
Speaker 14: political truths to engage with someone like him. I mean,

2105
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 14: you've kind of mentioned it and alluded to it, and

2106
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 14: your answers already about Jewish institutions like finding Israeli flag

2107
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 14: and things like that.

2108
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 6: Who are the forces today?

2109
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:50,040
Speaker 14: What are the institutions today that benefit from something like

2110
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 14: the boond and like its philosophy not being revisited, and

2111
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:57,599
Speaker 14: what did they stand to lose if these Buddhist ideas

2112
01:46:57,720 --> 01:46:58,920
Speaker 14: become widely known again.

2113
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:04,840
Speaker 15: I feel like the vast majority of mainstream Jewish institutions,

2114
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:09,760
Speaker 15: I mean, there's obviously like the ADL, right, you know,

2115
01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:14,200
Speaker 15: a ridiculous group that I almost feel like primarily exists

2116
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:17,479
Speaker 15: to try to like terrify elderly people, so that Jonathan

2117
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 15: Green Blat keeps getting his ridiculously inflated salary and keeps

2118
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 15: getting to like prants around like he's important. There's you know,

2119
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:27,080
Speaker 15: like the campus Hillales right, who claim that they're just

2120
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,599
Speaker 15: you know, a neutral thing for Jewish identity, but make

2121
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 15: it a prerequisite that you're Zionist. There's just like a

2122
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 15: vast amount of institutional Jewish groups that are not democratic.

2123
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:38,920
Speaker 15: They're not things that we vote for. I did not

2124
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:42,240
Speaker 15: fucking vote for Jonathan Greenblat to be appointed my spokesman,

2125
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:46,160
Speaker 15: you know, I didn't vote for these things like these

2126
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 15: are institutions led by very wealthy people that are.

2127
01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: In no way responsive to young Jews. They're not responsive to.

2128
01:47:54,120 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 15: Like ordinary people, and they want to keep having their

2129
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:03,519
Speaker 15: sort of stranglehold on getting to be the like spokesman for.

2130
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:06,240
Speaker 1: These very very very diverse communities.

2131
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 15: And I think that, you know, as the boond and

2132
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 15: as other anti Zionist forms of Jewishness are discovered and rediscovered,

2133
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 15: that these spokespeople are terrified because I mean, the biggest

2134
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 15: thing that they want that they're so terrified about is

2135
01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:25,120
Speaker 15: they're terrified.

2136
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 1: About losing the young people. The whole project.

2137
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:30,720
Speaker 15: It's about, you know, like this Jewish continuity, they call it.

2138
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 15: And you know Jewish people like getting married to each other,

2139
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:36,920
Speaker 15: you know, having kids, like contributing money to their institutions,

2140
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:39,120
Speaker 15: you know, maybe making Aliyah to Israel.

2141
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:40,880
Speaker 1: And if people are like.

2142
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 15: No, I reject this, I reject this state that's committing

2143
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:49,720
Speaker 15: a genocide, and I reject this ideology built on supremacy.

2144
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 15: And actually it's like fine to live in New York

2145
01:48:51,439 --> 01:48:55,000
Speaker 15: City and to you know, live and love and struggle

2146
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:59,360
Speaker 15: alongside my neighbors. That's directly antithetical to their project. And

2147
01:48:59,400 --> 01:49:02,080
Speaker 15: I think that's why the Boon has not just been

2148
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 15: a race, but it's mirror mentioned provokes such anger. Like

2149
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:09,600
Speaker 15: sometimes I just look through my comments and it's just

2150
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:13,720
Speaker 15: these endless fucking comments from people being like, boond all

2151
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:14,800
Speaker 15: died in the Holocaust.

2152
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:17,840
Speaker 1: Lol, Like what do you say to this, right, that's

2153
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:21,439
Speaker 1: so disstic. Yeah, the boons was all gassed. Lol, you

2154
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,720
Speaker 1: want you used to be gassed? You know, Zionists are thriving.

2155
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:27,840
Speaker 15: And I'm like, this is the most psychopathic to talk

2156
01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 15: about self hating, right, mocking people for being murdered in

2157
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:34,800
Speaker 15: the Holocaust. You know, it's because the Boone's ideology of

2158
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:39,680
Speaker 15: solidarity cross difference of heereness and of socialism is profoundly threatening.

2159
01:49:40,240 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 14: And honestly like what Thriving was happening, Like people in

2160
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:48,240
Speaker 14: Israel are terrified. There are missiles raining down like a garrison.

2161
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:52,680
Speaker 14: State cannot keep people safe. No such Ethno state can

2162
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 14: keep people safe. But and I'm reminded also from your

2163
01:49:56,439 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 14: answer about Maril Angel's article, I think last year and

2164
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:03,599
Speaker 14: Jewish currents, we need new Jewish institutions. I think it's

2165
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:05,720
Speaker 14: like they see the writing on the wall that this

2166
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:07,240
Speaker 14: is something that's going to happen.

2167
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:08,920
Speaker 6: And with books like.

2168
01:50:08,880 --> 01:50:12,160
Speaker 14: Yours, with kind of a revisiting of this history, it

2169
01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 14: only hastens, you know, this kind of political project coming

2170
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:18,880
Speaker 14: to fruition. My last question that I have for you

2171
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:23,760
Speaker 14: is more about the memory project nature of it all.

2172
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:26,960
Speaker 14: You write in your book about your great grandfather. You've

2173
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 14: already mentioned Samuel Rothbert about how he painted these memory

2174
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 14: paintings to kind of resurrect the vanished world of Eastern Europe,

2175
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 14: and you've also kind of written this book in the

2176
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 14: same way.

2177
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:42,200
Speaker 6: What do you think the relationship is between this.

2178
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:46,280
Speaker 14: Kind of recovery of erased history and building a politics

2179
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:46,920
Speaker 14: for the present.

2180
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,760
Speaker 15: Thank you, I mean, I spent seven years on this book.

2181
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 15: I learned Yiddish.

2182
01:50:51,240 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 6: That's wild, by the way, that's amazing.

2183
01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 15: I know, right, You know, I resented because I studied

2184
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 15: Arabic for so long and I like had finally gotten

2185
01:50:57,080 --> 01:50:58,920
Speaker 15: like I don't want to say good, but mediocre at it.

2186
01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 15: And then I feel like Yiddish pushed it out of

2187
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:04,760
Speaker 15: my brain and I'm just like, no, I want my

2188
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 15: Arabic back.

2189
01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 1: But yeah, I studied, I learned Yiddish.

2190
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:11,200
Speaker 15: I went to, you know, all the countries that I

2191
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:13,240
Speaker 15: could that the boond was active in. I wasn't able

2192
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:15,120
Speaker 15: to go to Belarus or Russia, but I went to

2193
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 15: like Poland, Latvia, Lithuania. I went to Ukraine during the

2194
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:23,559
Speaker 15: Russian invasion. I translated so many books. I think I'm

2195
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:27,040
Speaker 15: probably the only person who has read all five volumes

2196
01:51:27,080 --> 01:51:31,639
Speaker 15: of the terrifically boring geshichtefon Bound Official for History. And

2197
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,200
Speaker 15: I felt like I was doing ncromancy, you know, I

2198
01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:38,560
Speaker 15: felt like I was in love with these rebel ancestors,

2199
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:43,200
Speaker 15: these gun toting seamstresses, these lovers on the barricades, these

2200
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 15: stubborn people who constructed whole worlds out of love. And grit,

2201
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 15: even when siety wanted to crush them, I just like

2202
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:54,040
Speaker 15: fell in love, and I didn't just want to resurrect

2203
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:57,839
Speaker 15: them from erasure because their philosophy was apposed to Zionism,

2204
01:51:57,880 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 15: though that was also that was part of it. Of course,

2205
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 15: I wanted to resurrect them because the boond were amazing,

2206
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:08,759
Speaker 15: because they fought back against every single bastard of their age.

2207
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:11,759
Speaker 15: They fought for an ethos that was rooted in human

2208
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,680
Speaker 15: dignity and in human flourishing and freedom, but also in

2209
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:18,040
Speaker 15: economic justice and leftism. I just fell in love and

2210
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:21,320
Speaker 15: I wanted them to live again. And you know, one

2211
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 15: of the things that the powers that be do is

2212
01:52:24,439 --> 01:52:27,080
Speaker 15: that they try to impose themselves onto the past. They

2213
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:30,440
Speaker 15: try to say, because we won, now, it was inevitable

2214
01:52:30,479 --> 01:52:31,200
Speaker 15: that we would win.

2215
01:52:31,479 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: It was always going to be like this.

2216
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:37,720
Speaker 15: There is no alternative, as Margaret Etcher said, And what

2217
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:42,479
Speaker 15: you do when you preserve these repable histories is you

2218
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,880
Speaker 15: show that that's not the case. It expands our capacity

2219
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:50,240
Speaker 15: for fight, it expands our capacity for imagination. Things could

2220
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:52,759
Speaker 15: have been differently and people still can change the world.

2221
01:52:53,680 --> 01:52:56,840
Speaker 14: Yeah, there's nothing inevitable, and you always have agency. I

2222
01:52:56,840 --> 01:52:59,080
Speaker 14: think that that's like the thing that like, I gang

2223
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:01,719
Speaker 14: goose bumps thinking about when I think about these kinds

2224
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 14: of people, because they give you so much hope in

2225
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:08,000
Speaker 14: the present that things could be different. Thank you so much, Molly.

2226
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:11,920
Speaker 14: This has been such an interesting and provocative conversation.

2227
01:53:12,840 --> 01:53:14,240
Speaker 6: And thank you so much for learning.

2228
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:17,000
Speaker 17: Yiddish and for tessetting all those books so that we

2229
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 17: can read your book.

2230
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:19,439
Speaker 6: And we don't have to do all of that.

2231
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 15: Exactly, so you don't eat it out, have to suffer

2232
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:24,280
Speaker 15: through the world's dullist socialist pro stylings.

2233
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:27,280
Speaker 17: Yeah, no, You've done it for us. And I'm so

2234
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:29,479
Speaker 17: excited for the book. I'll put it in the show notes.

2235
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 17: Everybody should read it. Thank you so much, Molly.

2236
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:45,120
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, Danna.

2237
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:49,400
Speaker 18: For decades, people in northern Nigeria have been suffering the

2238
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:53,360
Speaker 18: violence of Jihadis. Groups in the region, more recently fall

2239
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:56,280
Speaker 18: in the lobby in of some questionable interest groups and figures.

2240
01:53:56,320 --> 01:53:59,719
Speaker 18: In the United States, President Donald Trump has dropped American

2241
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:06,080
Speaker 18: bos on Nigeria and soil. What exactly is happening in Nigeria? Hello,

2242
01:54:06,080 --> 01:54:09,519
Speaker 18: and welcomed it could happen here. I'm Andre's age Andrews

2243
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:12,439
Speaker 18: on YouTube and I'm joined again by James.

2244
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:14,280
Speaker 7: I'm glad we're doing this one.

2245
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 18: Yes to talk about what's been happening in Nigeria since

2246
01:54:18,040 --> 01:54:21,880
Speaker 18: it has captured Trump's attention and thus Western media interest

2247
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,960
Speaker 18: as of late. So, first of all, what away is Nigeria?

2248
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:29,640
Speaker 18: According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Nigeria's West African country with

2249
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:33,640
Speaker 18: a diverse geography and an even more diverse population, hundreds

2250
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:37,040
Speaker 18: of languages, one hundreds of ethnic groups, several religions in

2251
01:54:37,080 --> 01:54:39,760
Speaker 18: the most populous country in Africa and one of the

2252
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:43,160
Speaker 18: most populous countries in the world. Over two hundred and

2253
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:46,080
Speaker 18: thirty nine million people called Nigeria home, and the Nigerian

2254
01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:50,560
Speaker 18: aspora is well over ten million strong. Like much of Africa,

2255
01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:55,120
Speaker 18: Nigeria is rich in natural resources, particularly petroleum natural gas,

2256
01:54:55,440 --> 01:55:01,000
Speaker 18: but heavily exploited by international and local capital, thus much

2257
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:04,080
Speaker 18: of its population. By some estimates, over half of its

2258
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:09,640
Speaker 18: population is considered multi dimensionally poor. Modern Nigeria will stitched

2259
01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:13,320
Speaker 18: together from the British protectorates of Northern and Southern Nigeria

2260
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:17,360
Speaker 18: and agains its political independence only recently in nineteen sixty

2261
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:21,200
Speaker 18: and became a Republic in nineteen sixty three. That North

2262
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:24,640
Speaker 18: South divide is particularly relevant because it continues to define

2263
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:30,040
Speaker 18: Nigerian politics today. Nigeria split almost evenly between its Christian population,

2264
01:55:30,200 --> 01:55:33,680
Speaker 18: which dominates the South, and its Muslim population, which dominates

2265
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:38,160
Speaker 18: the North. Alongside ethnic, linguistic and other political divisions, corruption

2266
01:55:38,560 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 18: and all the other baggage of a typical Neo colony

2267
01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:44,440
Speaker 18: has made Nigerian politics quite the powder keg of some time.

2268
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:47,920
Speaker 18: They have been tragic and deadly episodes of political and

2269
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 18: religious violence throughout Nigeria's history, going in both directions, including

2270
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 18: the nineteen eighty seven crisis in Kaduna State and the

2271
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 18: early two thousands. Add several notorious riots and massacres as well,

2272
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 18: including the Yellow Massacre and the Josh Riots, linking the

2273
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 18: show notes for the details on those. Since those nine, however,

2274
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 18: militant Islamist group Bokoharam has engaged in a protracted insudency

2275
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 18: against Nigerian government and terrorized the Christian and Muslim population

2276
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:19,640
Speaker 18: through bombings, assassinations, and abductions with the overall intent of

2277
01:56:19,720 --> 01:56:23,680
Speaker 18: establishing an Islamic breakaway state in North Nigeria. For the

2278
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:25,720
Speaker 18: past few months, there has been a considered effort to

2279
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 18: paint a narrative of Christian genocide in Nigeria, a narrative

2280
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 18: that has long been co signed by the likes of

2281
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:36,440
Speaker 18: Donald Trump. So back in twenty eighteen, Trump had actually

2282
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 18: called out the killing of Christians in Nigeria, yet stopped

2283
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:43,040
Speaker 18: short of calling into genocide. But according to an article

2284
01:56:43,080 --> 01:56:47,080
Speaker 18: by Ayula Babolola on the myth of Christian Genocide, it

2285
01:56:47,160 --> 01:56:50,320
Speaker 18: was not long after Nigerian and Vice President Kashim Shatima's

2286
01:56:50,360 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 18: September twenty twenty five remarks at the eightieth Session of

2287
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:57,240
Speaker 18: the UN General Assembly, where he reasserted Nigeria's long standing

2288
01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 18: saw directy with Palestine, that the Western, largely pro Israel

2289
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:05,800
Speaker 18: far right began the campaign of claiming Christian genocide in Nigeria.

2290
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:09,440
Speaker 18: In his address, Shatima did mention the problem with Angeria

2291
01:57:09,480 --> 01:57:12,400
Speaker 18: has happened with extremism, but these commentators are run with

2292
01:57:12,480 --> 01:57:16,120
Speaker 18: a much more specific narrative. The same people who deny

2293
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:19,760
Speaker 18: the Pastdinian genocide and prop up the mythical white genocide

2294
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:22,640
Speaker 18: in South Africa have gone on to push this Christian

2295
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:26,880
Speaker 18: genocide story. Bill Meyer, the guy who still can't prove

2296
01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:29,480
Speaker 18: the claims he made about October seventh, has gone on

2297
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 18: to tell people that what's happening in Nigeria is, to paraphrase,

2298
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:36,200
Speaker 18: so much more of a genocide than what's happening in

2299
01:57:36,280 --> 01:57:41,600
Speaker 18: Khaza Endot. In late October and early November twenty five,

2300
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:46,400
Speaker 18: Trump tweeted that Christianity is facing an existential threat in Nigeria,

2301
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:51,000
Speaker 18: name Nigeria as a country of particular concern and announced

2302
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 18: to the United States was ready, willing and able to

2303
01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:57,800
Speaker 18: save our great Christian population around the world. And for

2304
01:57:57,840 --> 01:58:00,400
Speaker 18: some reason, Nicki Minaj is out there back in Trump's

2305
01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:04,320
Speaker 18: Christian persecution narrative as well. Perfect why are you in it?

2306
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:08,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, just to be clear for Anyone's not the way.

2307
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:11,320
Speaker 7: Nicki Minij not a person from Nigeria or with any

2308
01:58:11,320 --> 01:58:13,920
Speaker 7: particular insight into the situation there.

2309
01:58:14,160 --> 01:58:15,880
Speaker 18: She's also not Trinardi and I just want to clear

2310
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:20,320
Speaker 18: that up. Yes, her certificate is from the Republic a

2311
01:58:20,360 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 18: Trinianto vehicle, but we do not claim her since her

2312
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:27,960
Speaker 18: statements about how COVID and the vaccine and her cousin's

2313
01:58:28,040 --> 01:58:31,840
Speaker 18: balls like, from that moment onward, people who have been

2314
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 18: like distancing themselves from her enterdiddo.

2315
01:58:34,320 --> 01:58:36,120
Speaker 7: Anyway, I can see why.

2316
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 18: So in November twenty five, according to a BBC report,

2317
01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:43,120
Speaker 18: Trump also said that he would send troops into Nigeria

2318
01:58:43,320 --> 01:58:46,160
Speaker 18: guns are blazing if its government continues to allow the

2319
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 18: killing of Christians. Then in December twenty twenty five, according

2320
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:53,480
Speaker 18: to another BBC report, the US has launched strikes on

2321
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:57,240
Speaker 18: the twenty fifth of December as a Christmas present against

2322
01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:00,880
Speaker 18: militans in the Islamic State Group in northwestern Nigeria.

2323
01:59:01,520 --> 01:59:02,480
Speaker 5: What should be noted.

2324
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 18: Though, is they did not strike Bokoharam, which is based

2325
01:59:05,560 --> 01:59:07,080
Speaker 18: in northeast Nigeria.

2326
01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:10,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was really interesting to look at the bill

2327
01:59:10,120 --> 01:59:11,880
Speaker 7: that I wrote about this bit for my newsletter. But

2328
01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:16,640
Speaker 7: the US was flying intelligence gathering flights essentially for some

2329
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:19,800
Speaker 7: time of a Nigeria right. Clearly like they must have

2330
01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 7: been some kind of agreement with the Nigerian government to

2331
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:26,600
Speaker 7: allow this right, but they were clearly trying to identify

2332
01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 7: like where it's what and Baccaharam were and like you

2333
01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:34,440
Speaker 7: could see them winding up to this strike. I guess

2334
01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:36,120
Speaker 7: they waited to Christmas day to go for it.

2335
01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 18: Yeah, yeah, so there was the Christmas present of the

2336
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 18: US bodman there. Yeah, and this happened less than a

2337
01:59:44,280 --> 01:59:47,080
Speaker 18: week by the way, after the Alliance of Sahel States

2338
01:59:47,160 --> 01:59:51,120
Speaker 18: that'd being Bikina, Faso, Niza and Mali commissioned a joint

2339
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:55,640
Speaker 18: military force of five thousand comment terrorists. And that move

2340
01:59:55,760 --> 01:59:58,360
Speaker 18: was following the Economic Community of West African States or

2341
01:59:58,480 --> 02:00:01,120
Speaker 18: equa's plan to launch a two hundred and six one

2342
02:00:01,200 --> 02:00:04,160
Speaker 18: thousand member conter terrorism for US. So there's a lot

2343
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:06,840
Speaker 18: of military action happened in West Africa right now, coming

2344
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:10,360
Speaker 18: from the inside and the outside. In a January twenty

2345
02:00:10,400 --> 02:00:13,840
Speaker 18: twenty sixth report, Trump claimed quote, I'd love to make

2346
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 18: it a one time strike, but if they continue to

2347
02:00:16,160 --> 02:00:19,520
Speaker 18: kill Christians, it will be a many times strike end Coote.

2348
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:22,680
Speaker 18: Trump has also accused the Nigerian government, as I said,

2349
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:26,880
Speaker 18: of repeatedly failing to protect Christians. So Trump is a

2350
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:29,840
Speaker 18: known liar to take everything he says with a grain

2351
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:33,120
Speaker 18: of salt, as is the rest of his administration generally

2352
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:47,040
Speaker 18: really capturist politicians and pundits. So let me break down

2353
02:00:47,160 --> 02:00:51,800
Speaker 18: what is actually happening in Nigeria. The Nigerian government has

2354
02:00:51,840 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 18: said that Muslims, Christians, and those of no faith alike

2355
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:58,560
Speaker 18: are targeted. According to a Yula Aabalula. The government of

2356
02:00:58,640 --> 02:01:02,400
Speaker 18: Nigeria is indeed feeling to adequately address the devastation being

2357
02:01:02,480 --> 02:01:06,360
Speaker 18: rought against communities in Nigeria. But critically, it is not

2358
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 18: religious nature, or rather religion is only a part of

2359
02:01:10,600 --> 02:01:12,760
Speaker 18: the picture. It can't be used to explain the whole

2360
02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 18: story on the ground. So there are several groups where

2361
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:18,320
Speaker 18: you can have In northern Nigeria, they have a few

2362
02:01:18,400 --> 02:01:22,200
Speaker 18: different Islamic state affiliated groups, yeah, fokah Aram which is

2363
02:01:22,240 --> 02:01:24,320
Speaker 18: the main one. And you also have the conflict between

2364
02:01:24,320 --> 02:01:27,640
Speaker 18: the Fulani hoods men who are mostly Muslim and various

2365
02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:31,040
Speaker 18: farming groups who may be Christian or Muslim. So where

2366
02:01:31,040 --> 02:01:33,640
Speaker 18: the hoodsmen are considered, that kind of conflict has actually

2367
02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:36,120
Speaker 18: been taking place between the hooders and the settled people

2368
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:40,240
Speaker 18: for literal centuries. The only difference is that now you

2369
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:44,680
Speaker 18: have them carrying ak forty sevens in served as sticks

2370
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:48,760
Speaker 18: and machetes. Yea, how they got those Ak forty sevens

2371
02:01:48,760 --> 02:01:51,400
Speaker 18: is really thanks to the history of the West's intervention

2372
02:01:51,680 --> 02:01:55,360
Speaker 18: in Africa, but we'll get to that in a moment. Critically, though,

2373
02:01:55,400 --> 02:01:57,840
Speaker 18: if you step outside as the religious freemen, you would

2374
02:01:57,840 --> 02:02:02,960
Speaker 18: see a criminal, economic and political motivation behind these actions.

2375
02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:06,839
Speaker 18: They may be going after land, or want to extract ransom,

2376
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:11,160
Speaker 18: or pursue a particular political goal. The Muslims in North

2377
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:15,320
Speaker 18: Nigeria are not safe just because they're Muslim. Bokoharam's victims

2378
02:02:15,400 --> 02:02:19,560
Speaker 18: are mostly Muslim because Bokharam's target is anyone who stands

2379
02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:23,360
Speaker 18: between them and their political aims. Everyone who isn't Pokoharam

2380
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:26,800
Speaker 18: or aligned with Islamic state West African Province is considered

2381
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:30,480
Speaker 18: an enemy. One article on Trump's beef with Nigeria by

2382
02:02:30,760 --> 02:02:34,879
Speaker 18: Yusuf Bangura talks about six types of violence in the country.

2383
02:02:35,280 --> 02:02:38,640
Speaker 18: We have the Bokharam Islamist inspired violence in the Northeast,

2384
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:41,760
Speaker 18: whose main victims are Muslims who reject the group's is

2385
02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:45,200
Speaker 18: Limist ideology. They have the banditary in the Northwest, which

2386
02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:48,280
Speaker 18: affects Muslims and Christians in equal measure. You have the

2387
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:51,400
Speaker 18: herd of farmer conflict in the Middle Belt, which affects

2388
02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 18: Christians and Muslims, or the reports indicated Christians are the

2389
02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:58,080
Speaker 18: main victims of that violence. You have the herd of

2390
02:02:58,120 --> 02:03:01,040
Speaker 18: farmer violence in the Northwest, which is distinct from the

2391
02:03:01,040 --> 02:03:03,720
Speaker 18: hood of farmer violence in the Middle Belt. So the

2392
02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:06,720
Speaker 18: one in the northwest has full Lani hooders reportedly pitched

2393
02:03:06,720 --> 02:03:10,920
Speaker 18: against Hauser farmers, and both groups are Muslim. You have

2394
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,000
Speaker 18: the violence inflicted by the indigenous people of Biafra and

2395
02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:17,320
Speaker 18: bandits in the east against their own people, Ebos, who

2396
02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:21,720
Speaker 18: are Christian. And you also have general panditry in large

2397
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:24,600
Speaker 18: parts of the country which has rendered traveling by roads

2398
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:27,760
Speaker 18: between cities very risky. So there's been a lot of

2399
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:30,760
Speaker 18: Western attention drawing suggest some of the victims the churches,

2400
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:34,000
Speaker 18: the church leaders, and the Christian communities, even though mosques

2401
02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:38,640
Speaker 18: and imams and Muslim communities and animists have also been devastated,

2402
02:03:39,240 --> 02:03:42,400
Speaker 18: and has turned a multifaceted violence into a narrative of

2403
02:03:42,560 --> 02:03:47,120
Speaker 18: targeted anti Christian violence, seemingly at least from the Trump

2404
02:03:47,160 --> 02:03:50,520
Speaker 18: and Zionist camp, for the purpose of demonizing Muslims, and

2405
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:54,400
Speaker 18: I guess, in some convoluted way weakening global support for

2406
02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:58,360
Speaker 18: Palestinians because Parthians are also Muslims, so they're all the

2407
02:03:58,400 --> 02:04:03,280
Speaker 18: same man. That's just speculation in my cart. Even Christian

2408
02:04:03,320 --> 02:04:05,800
Speaker 18: leaders in Nigeria have been calling out this framement, though

2409
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:11,400
Speaker 18: Archbishop Matthew man OsO Ndagoso was quoted extensively in an

2410
02:04:11,480 --> 02:04:13,680
Speaker 18: article for Aid to the Chase and Need, which is

2411
02:04:13,720 --> 02:04:17,880
Speaker 18: an international Catholic organization. Rather than pinning the blame on Islam,

2412
02:04:17,960 --> 02:04:21,520
Speaker 18: he said, in the Northwest, the farmers are mostly Muslims

2413
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:24,160
Speaker 18: and they also have conflicts with the Fulani. As moved

2414
02:04:24,160 --> 02:04:26,720
Speaker 18: the Middle Belt. It is enhancing most by Christians, so

2415
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:29,600
Speaker 18: there will most likely be a Christian farm. Religion and

2416
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:32,840
Speaker 18: ethnicity have very sensitive problems in Nigeria. They're always used

2417
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:35,920
Speaker 18: for convenience, but primarily this conflict is not religious. I

2418
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:38,320
Speaker 18: am absolutely sure. If you apply for a job and

2419
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:39,920
Speaker 18: you don't get it, you might say you were rejected

2420
02:04:39,960 --> 02:04:42,400
Speaker 18: because you are a Christian, and the same for Muslims.

2421
02:04:42,880 --> 02:04:46,760
Speaker 18: Opportunists such as politicians use these factors to their own advantage.

2422
02:04:46,920 --> 02:04:48,800
Speaker 18: But if you go to the route, you discover is

2423
02:04:48,920 --> 02:04:50,400
Speaker 18: little or nothing to his religion.

2424
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 7: End quote Sex and analysis from the Church. I'm surprised

2425
02:04:54,800 --> 02:04:56,640
Speaker 7: going from that source that I'm glad it, did you know?

2426
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:02,000
Speaker 18: Yeah, Catholic change of all places. So he even claims

2427
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:04,960
Speaker 18: that the kidnappings of priests have little to do with religion.

2428
02:05:05,160 --> 02:05:07,880
Speaker 18: And I'll quote him again. In the last three years,

2429
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:10,720
Speaker 18: seven of my priests have been kidnapped, two have been killed,

2430
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:12,720
Speaker 18: and one has been in captivity for three years and

2431
02:05:12,760 --> 02:05:17,360
Speaker 18: two months. Four released in fifty of my parishes. Priests

2432
02:05:17,400 --> 02:05:20,240
Speaker 18: cannot stay in directories because they are targets. They are

2433
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:23,200
Speaker 18: seen as an easy source of money for a ranser.

2434
02:05:23,760 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 18: So he's emphasizing there that it's really about the money

2435
02:05:26,440 --> 02:05:29,480
Speaker 18: that the churches perceived to be able to provide to

2436
02:05:29,600 --> 02:05:34,000
Speaker 18: these canappers, more so than any religious targeting in particular.

2437
02:05:34,760 --> 02:05:38,160
Speaker 18: Of course, that is only one archbishop's perspective on the situation.

2438
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:41,680
Speaker 18: I think Babelola makes an important point in his article

2439
02:05:41,760 --> 02:05:44,959
Speaker 18: on the myth that I would like to quote as well. Crucially,

2440
02:05:45,120 --> 02:05:48,600
Speaker 18: Christians at times become the chosen targets. In particular assaults

2441
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:52,840
Speaker 18: churches have been attacked during worship, pre subducted an entire

2442
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:57,400
Speaker 18: Christian villages raised in Plateau Venue and Southern Karduna. These

2443
02:05:57,440 --> 02:06:00,160
Speaker 18: episodes are not separate from the general crisis, but a

2444
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:03,200
Speaker 18: rather moments when Christian identity is weaponized to mark a

2445
02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:06,800
Speaker 18: community for terror. In this sense, Christians bear both the

2446
02:06:06,840 --> 02:06:09,840
Speaker 18: general weight of insecurity shared by all Nigerians and the

2447
02:06:09,880 --> 02:06:14,040
Speaker 18: sharper trauma of faith based targeting in sydnem attacks, but

2448
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:17,080
Speaker 18: Bablua doesn't forget that these groups terror as a severe

2449
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:20,040
Speaker 18: impact on the Muslims as well. In fact, he makes

2450
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:23,600
Speaker 18: an important comparison I wanted to highlight, which is that

2451
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:28,640
Speaker 18: in areas ravaged by armed groups, the first victims tend

2452
02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:31,120
Speaker 18: to be those who have religious or ethnic groups in

2453
02:06:31,160 --> 02:06:35,040
Speaker 18: common with the militants, killed because they are seen as

2454
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:38,960
Speaker 18: infidels or not noble enough or not committed enough to

2455
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:43,280
Speaker 18: the ideals of that movement. If you look at the

2456
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:49,080
Speaker 18: history of Zionism, it's released. For example, before they found

2457
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:51,920
Speaker 18: in of the state of Israel, there were bombings of

2458
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:56,720
Speaker 18: several Jewish heritage sites across the Middle East, and records

2459
02:06:56,760 --> 02:06:59,840
Speaker 18: have later showed that they were carried out by terroristic

2460
02:07:00,240 --> 02:07:03,200
Speaker 18: Jewish gangs who sort to instill a fair in Jewish

2461
02:07:03,240 --> 02:07:06,240
Speaker 18: communities across the region, to so discord between the Jewish

2462
02:07:06,280 --> 02:07:09,760
Speaker 18: communities and their neighbors for the purpose of forcing them

2463
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 18: to abandon these Middle Eastern states and relocate to Israel

2464
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:16,200
Speaker 18: to further Israel's economic and geopolitical courts.

2465
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's not.

2466
02:07:18,200 --> 02:07:21,360
Speaker 18: Unheard of for a group to target its own core

2467
02:07:21,360 --> 02:07:25,320
Speaker 18: religionists for its geopolitical economic combusures.

2468
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 7: If we talk about specifically the Islamic state in Iraq

2469
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,560
Speaker 7: and Syria. Right, isis as opposed to the Islamic State

2470
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:36,000
Speaker 7: in West Africa, like get killed more Muslims than anyone else, Right, exactly,

2471
02:07:36,200 --> 02:07:38,000
Speaker 7: those were the bulk of the people it murdered.

2472
02:07:38,320 --> 02:07:41,720
Speaker 18: We could even look at a very old historical example,

2473
02:07:42,600 --> 02:07:46,400
Speaker 18: the Latin Crusade. You had all these Christians from Europe,

2474
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:51,880
Speaker 18: Goyana Crusade, and because they didn't get paid, they decided

2475
02:07:51,920 --> 02:07:56,200
Speaker 18: to ransack their core religionists in Greece and you know,

2476
02:07:56,280 --> 02:08:01,160
Speaker 18: in the wider Byzantine Empire, and eventually, you know, deconstruct

2477
02:08:01,160 --> 02:08:04,240
Speaker 18: business the empire entirely and establish their own Latin Empire.

2478
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:05,640
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2479
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:08,720
Speaker 18: So I didn't want to gloss over the real challenges

2480
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:13,080
Speaker 18: that Christians specifically are facing in North Nigeria. Though, since

2481
02:08:13,160 --> 02:08:16,000
Speaker 18: nineteen ninety nine, serial law has been introduced and enforced

2482
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:19,840
Speaker 18: in twelve northern states, and according to the same archbishops

2483
02:08:19,840 --> 02:08:23,080
Speaker 18: that I quoted earlier, this has ensured that religious persecution

2484
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:26,400
Speaker 18: in the North is systemic. He said, and I quote,

2485
02:08:26,520 --> 02:08:29,400
Speaker 18: I cannot build a church. Even if you buy a land,

2486
02:08:29,440 --> 02:08:31,800
Speaker 18: you can't get a permission of occupancy, and therefore you

2487
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:34,000
Speaker 18: cannot build In many of these states, they don't allow

2488
02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:37,000
Speaker 18: the teaching of Christianity get the government's employees and pays

2489
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:39,880
Speaker 18: emams to teach in schools every year. They have money

2490
02:08:39,920 --> 02:08:41,800
Speaker 18: to build mosques in the budget, but they will not

2491
02:08:41,880 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 18: let you build churches. If m I state, there's a

2492
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:47,000
Speaker 18: university and across the street there are five mosques, no church.

2493
02:08:47,320 --> 02:08:49,440
Speaker 18: Who wanted to build one, they didn't allow it. If

2494
02:08:49,480 --> 02:08:51,120
Speaker 18: you build the church with a permission and the government

2495
02:08:51,160 --> 02:08:52,960
Speaker 18: can tear it down. And this is what we are

2496
02:08:52,960 --> 02:08:54,920
Speaker 18: going through. It is serious. We want our government to

2497
02:08:54,920 --> 02:08:58,680
Speaker 18: be held accountable for people to be treated equally end quote.

2498
02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:02,400
Speaker 18: So again, religious is still part of the picture, but

2499
02:09:02,520 --> 02:09:06,920
Speaker 18: not in the way that the Western governments are painted. What's

2500
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:09,840
Speaker 18: happening is these issues of being amplified by opportunists and

2501
02:09:09,960 --> 02:09:13,800
Speaker 18: far right lobbyists. And as I established earlier, we should

2502
02:09:13,800 --> 02:09:16,840
Speaker 18: be addressed in where these terror groups have even come from,

2503
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:20,240
Speaker 18: because the West hands are not clean in that picture either.

2504
02:09:20,720 --> 02:09:23,400
Speaker 18: Groups like al Qaeda and the Islamic State have known

2505
02:09:23,480 --> 02:09:26,960
Speaker 18: connections in their history to Western Midland. An American policy

2506
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:30,040
Speaker 18: in Africa has at least indirectly on these groups. Thanks

2507
02:09:30,040 --> 02:09:32,640
Speaker 18: to the fall of Gadaffi in Libya and the American

2508
02:09:32,680 --> 02:09:35,760
Speaker 18: Ladie stabilization of other Muslim countries in Southwest Asia and

2509
02:09:35,840 --> 02:09:39,320
Speaker 18: North Africa. The death squads are as Akys that is

2510
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:43,400
Speaker 18: spersed across the Sahel region, victimizing Africans of World faith

2511
02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:46,920
Speaker 18: or at least some of their firepower to that Western

2512
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:50,080
Speaker 18: intervenure to the flow of arms coming out of Libya.

2513
02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:52,480
Speaker 18: The West has repeatedly shown that it's not kay of

2514
02:09:52,520 --> 02:10:06,560
Speaker 18: people's lives. So what is the real beef that Trump

2515
02:10:06,640 --> 02:10:10,920
Speaker 18: and co? Have with Nigeria? While according to Bangoura's article,

2516
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:14,240
Speaker 18: Trump is not feeling the fact that the US is

2517
02:10:14,320 --> 02:10:18,320
Speaker 18: dependent on China for what it is and Nigeria is very

2518
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:21,440
Speaker 18: resource rich when it comes to earths like lithium, cobalt,

2519
02:10:21,520 --> 02:10:24,760
Speaker 18: nickel and all that other stuff. Chinese companies have invested

2520
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:27,760
Speaker 18: more than one point three billion US dollars in Nigeria's

2521
02:10:27,800 --> 02:10:31,680
Speaker 18: lithium processing industry, and Russia has growing leverage in the

2522
02:10:31,720 --> 02:10:35,720
Speaker 18: region thanks to their involvement with Nizia, Bikina, Faso and Mali.

2523
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:39,600
Speaker 18: So in an effort to wean America or of China,

2524
02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:43,520
Speaker 18: Tran has been trying to after the deal, the situation

2525
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:46,760
Speaker 18: so he signed agreements in Southeast Asia to increase the

2526
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,160
Speaker 18: production and processing of rats and exports the US. He

2527
02:10:50,240 --> 02:10:53,240
Speaker 18: stepped into a broker peace deals code and code between

2528
02:10:53,320 --> 02:10:56,600
Speaker 18: the DRC and Rwanda's the US can invest more in

2529
02:10:56,640 --> 02:11:01,320
Speaker 18: the DRC's minerals. And what Trump radio like in Nigeria's

2530
02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:05,560
Speaker 18: case is that Nigeria's President Tunubu is not playing ball

2531
02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 18: with him, at least in this case in Trump's eyes,

2532
02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:12,000
Speaker 18: to will you not do enough to reverse Naja's military

2533
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 18: coup and to wo do not let the US relocate

2534
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:19,120
Speaker 18: the Nigerian military base to Nigeria. Tunu Wu also didn't

2535
02:11:19,200 --> 02:11:24,760
Speaker 18: let Trump relocate to poorties to Nigeria even when Ghana, Rwanda, Esportini,

2536
02:11:24,800 --> 02:11:30,280
Speaker 18: Seladan and Uganda all accepted them. Furthermore, as established before,

2537
02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:35,720
Speaker 18: Nigeria continues to condemn Israel's genocide in Gaza now when

2538
02:11:35,720 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 18: it wants to, the US can intervene in other countries

2539
02:11:38,520 --> 02:11:42,080
Speaker 18: without the talk about humanitarian itself. Because look at Guatemala

2540
02:11:42,160 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 18: nineteen fifty four when they tried to implement some land

2541
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:49,040
Speaker 18: reforms and that went against the United Food companies interests,

2542
02:11:49,160 --> 02:11:52,120
Speaker 18: So the US invaded, and you also had the US

2543
02:11:52,440 --> 02:11:56,000
Speaker 18: willing to simply support whatever opposition exists in the country,

2544
02:11:56,640 --> 02:11:59,720
Speaker 18: like in the Congo in nineteen sixty one against Patricial Mumba,

2545
02:12:00,200 --> 02:12:03,560
Speaker 18: in Chile in nineteen seventy three against savadoy Inde, and

2546
02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:07,760
Speaker 18: in Iran in nineteen fifty three against Muhammad Mosdeg So

2547
02:12:07,800 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 18: they will use humanitarian talk. Whether they use that talk

2548
02:12:11,160 --> 02:12:13,680
Speaker 18: or not, the results tend to be disastrous for the

2549
02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:20,400
Speaker 18: people in those countries. US intervention sucks pretty much everywhere Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan,

2550
02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:24,440
Speaker 18: Somalia and more. Besides, so we can count on whatever

2551
02:12:24,440 --> 02:12:29,600
Speaker 18: Trump attempts in Nigeria being an abject failure. More recently,

2552
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:32,400
Speaker 18: the United States announced it will be sending a military

2553
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:35,960
Speaker 18: team to Nigeria after a string of recent attacks. That'd

2554
02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:40,800
Speaker 18: be in two hundred troops. So we'll see what happens next.

2555
02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:44,440
Speaker 18: But it's clear that US intervention is not the solution.

2556
02:12:45,360 --> 02:12:49,720
Speaker 18: Its intentions are definitely malicious. So what can the future

2557
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:52,880
Speaker 18: be for the people of Nigeria? How can its people

2558
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:57,080
Speaker 18: be free? Obviously, the battle against these reactionary forces rages on,

2559
02:12:57,240 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 18: but military solutions and militarization will not be In fact,

2560
02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:03,200
Speaker 18: it carries some serious risk in the region as a

2561
02:13:03,200 --> 02:13:06,920
Speaker 18: whole in terms of escalation. An article by Ayodele o'

2562
02:13:07,040 --> 02:13:10,360
Speaker 18: labi in Altera zero recognize that with Nigeria's entanglement with

2563
02:13:10,400 --> 02:13:13,120
Speaker 18: the US and the two hundred and sixty thousand strong

2564
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:16,800
Speaker 18: Equa's force, the AES is going to feel threatened, you know,

2565
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:19,680
Speaker 18: as it's trying to keep Western influence out of the region.

2566
02:13:20,280 --> 02:13:20,680
Speaker 3: So there's a.

2567
02:13:20,720 --> 02:13:24,880
Speaker 18: Danger of future EQUAS deployments overlapping with AS operations and

2568
02:13:24,960 --> 02:13:28,440
Speaker 18: potentially lead into clashes. And if there isn't the escalation

2569
02:13:28,520 --> 02:13:31,440
Speaker 18: of tensions between EQUAS and AS, we can end up

2570
02:13:31,480 --> 02:13:34,960
Speaker 18: seeing interstate wars that would devastate communities in the region

2571
02:13:35,080 --> 02:13:38,680
Speaker 18: and give the insurgents opportunities to expand. It could very

2572
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:41,400
Speaker 18: well set up another proxy battleground for global powers and

2573
02:13:41,520 --> 02:13:42,920
Speaker 18: some kind of new Cold War.

2574
02:13:43,480 --> 02:13:44,000
Speaker 5: So they have to.

2575
02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:49,200
Speaker 18: Find some way of avoiding this clash and see if

2576
02:13:49,200 --> 02:13:53,200
Speaker 18: they can build a cooperative security framework despite their vastly

2577
02:13:53,200 --> 02:13:54,480
Speaker 18: different interests.

2578
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:58,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, and to a degree, we already see like global

2579
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:02,040
Speaker 7: powers right like Russia has been honing its most horrific

2580
02:14:02,120 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 7: war crimes in parts of West Africa for a long time,

2581
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:10,560
Speaker 7: right with its like private military contractors exactly Ukraine has

2582
02:14:10,600 --> 02:14:15,120
Speaker 7: sent special forces to assist the people fighting against the

2583
02:14:15,280 --> 02:14:21,000
Speaker 7: Russian private military contractors, like we've seen Nigeria's own government

2584
02:14:21,200 --> 02:14:24,920
Speaker 7: kill its own civilians and its counter terrorism operation like

2585
02:14:26,120 --> 02:14:29,320
Speaker 7: all of this just makes life less livable for people

2586
02:14:29,360 --> 02:14:32,120
Speaker 7: who are already like on the thick end of climate

2587
02:14:32,200 --> 02:14:34,840
Speaker 7: change for one thing, and have suffered under centuries to

2588
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:35,920
Speaker 7: colonialism for another.

2589
02:14:36,360 --> 02:14:39,960
Speaker 18: So that's a geopolitic analysis, and I suppose been the

2590
02:14:40,040 --> 02:14:42,200
Speaker 18: long term. I think there's much to be done to

2591
02:14:42,280 --> 02:14:47,000
Speaker 18: rebuild the revolutionary front within Nigeria, led by Nigerians themselves,

2592
02:14:47,480 --> 02:14:49,640
Speaker 18: to chart another path for the future of the country.

2593
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:52,440
Speaker 18: Are we from the status of Vassalich?

2594
02:14:53,000 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2595
02:14:53,480 --> 02:14:56,320
Speaker 18: You know, Left and Left of Jason Wovemans were very

2596
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:59,440
Speaker 18: diminished in relevance and credibility after the end of military

2597
02:14:59,560 --> 02:15:03,480
Speaker 18: rule in Ingerior in nineteen ninety nine due to several

2598
02:15:03,560 --> 02:15:06,160
Speaker 18: reasons that we could get into at another time. But

2599
02:15:06,200 --> 02:15:08,640
Speaker 18: by the time we got to the Ensar's movement in

2600
02:15:08,840 --> 02:15:12,600
Speaker 18: twenty twenty, Left forces were present but didn't have the

2601
02:15:12,680 --> 02:15:16,160
Speaker 18: level of organization and strategy necessary to rise the occasion.

2602
02:15:16,680 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 18: But according to an article in Progressive International by A.

2603
02:15:19,360 --> 02:15:24,720
Speaker 18: Euler Babbalola, there's potential for a resurgence. The End Bad

2604
02:15:24,760 --> 02:15:28,840
Speaker 18: Governance movement had demonstrations in August October twenty twenty four

2605
02:15:29,200 --> 02:15:31,760
Speaker 18: which saw leftist groups like Take It Back and the

2606
02:15:31,920 --> 02:15:35,120
Speaker 18: Socialist Workers League play a central role in organizing and

2607
02:15:35,160 --> 02:15:40,640
Speaker 18: mobilizing protests. Unlike earlier moments, these groups articulated clearer demands,

2608
02:15:41,000 --> 02:15:46,000
Speaker 18: coordinated protest strategies, had attempted to provide ideological direction. This

2609
02:15:46,080 --> 02:15:48,480
Speaker 18: is in spite of facing crackdowns and arrests of key

2610
02:15:48,480 --> 02:15:52,560
Speaker 18: figures and left and progressives faces. Of course, not everyone

2611
02:15:52,600 --> 02:15:56,160
Speaker 18: mobilizing against the Nigeria's struggle in economic and political conditions

2612
02:15:56,200 --> 02:16:00,320
Speaker 18: are committed to left or left adjacent ideas. Still, the

2613
02:16:00,400 --> 02:16:05,440
Speaker 18: question remains unresolved. Can this renewed street level influence be

2614
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:10,200
Speaker 18: transformed into lasting organizational power or will repeat the cycle

2615
02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:14,920
Speaker 18: of hobialization followed by fragmentation that has littered movements before it.

2616
02:16:15,640 --> 02:16:18,400
Speaker 18: This violence taking place in Nigeria is bound up with

2617
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:21,680
Speaker 18: the violence taking place across the world. Is bound up

2618
02:16:21,720 --> 02:16:25,320
Speaker 18: in imperialist interests and capless interest, in status interests, and

2619
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:30,160
Speaker 18: in petty tyrant's interests, from Nigeria to Congo to Sedan

2620
02:16:30,240 --> 02:16:33,640
Speaker 18: to Palestine, violence and suppression tactics wee lied in one

2621
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:37,680
Speaker 18: place often brought to another. Biblelula says in his article

2622
02:16:37,720 --> 02:16:41,600
Speaker 18: that could a genuine pursuit of justice must confront proximate

2623
02:16:41,600 --> 02:16:44,879
Speaker 18: perpetrators as well as the transnational systems of power that

2624
02:16:44,959 --> 02:16:47,600
Speaker 18: sustain them. What we must not allow is for the

2625
02:16:47,640 --> 02:16:50,920
Speaker 18: global perpetrators of criminality and terror to tell the world

2626
02:16:51,000 --> 02:16:54,800
Speaker 18: where to focus its attention end code. In other words,

2627
02:16:55,120 --> 02:16:57,440
Speaker 18: to all that the perpetrators of these violences tell you

2628
02:16:57,480 --> 02:17:01,480
Speaker 18: where to focus. We must look every where, look holistically

2629
02:17:01,600 --> 02:17:04,640
Speaker 18: at what's happening, and put the power and soliarity in

2630
02:17:04,720 --> 02:17:08,280
Speaker 18: the hands of the people affected to resist that violence.

2631
02:17:09,320 --> 02:17:12,119
Speaker 18: That's all I happened to as usual, all power, it's

2632
02:17:12,160 --> 02:17:13,680
Speaker 18: old people peace.

2633
02:17:28,280 --> 02:17:31,560
Speaker 11: This is it could happen here. In Executive Disorder, our

2634
02:17:31,640 --> 02:17:34,080
Speaker 11: weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the

2635
02:17:34,080 --> 02:17:36,560
Speaker 11: crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison

2636
02:17:36,640 --> 02:17:39,400
Speaker 11: Davis to name, joined by James Stout, Mia Wong, and

2637
02:17:39,560 --> 02:17:42,800
Speaker 11: Robert Evans. This episode, we are covering the week of

2638
02:17:42,959 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 11: April first to April eighth. The DHS shutdown has surpassed

2639
02:17:47,800 --> 02:17:51,920
Speaker 11: fifty days. Last week, House Republicans tentatively agreed to the

2640
02:17:52,040 --> 02:17:56,039
Speaker 11: Senate deal to fund DHS without ICE and CBP, though

2641
02:17:56,040 --> 02:17:58,840
Speaker 11: this agreement is stalled while Congress is out of session

2642
02:17:59,200 --> 02:18:04,120
Speaker 11: till April fourteenth. Fox News has partnered with Calshi to

2643
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:09,520
Speaker 11: incorporate its political betting data into news coverage. Fox joints CNNC, NBC,

2644
02:18:09,800 --> 02:18:12,880
Speaker 11: and the AP in entering into deals with the so

2645
02:18:12,959 --> 02:18:18,039
Speaker 11: called prediction market Calshi. Calshe announced quote, prediction markets at

2646
02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:22,760
Speaker 11: accountability by rewarding accuracy. That's why the three leading networks

2647
02:18:22,760 --> 02:18:26,879
Speaker 11: have chosen Calshi. No spin, no partisan lens, just incentives

2648
02:18:26,920 --> 02:18:28,440
Speaker 11: to be right unquote.

2649
02:18:28,520 --> 02:18:29,359
Speaker 2: It's just gambling.

2650
02:18:30,040 --> 02:18:32,840
Speaker 3: It's so cool that the whole world, all media is now.

2651
02:18:32,760 --> 02:18:37,360
Speaker 2: Just ESPN incentives to be right again, like people are.

2652
02:18:37,560 --> 02:18:40,600
Speaker 2: There's like one of the sub markets within Calshi is

2653
02:18:40,640 --> 02:18:43,680
Speaker 2: people like bringing in lawyers to make threats over like

2654
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:47,800
Speaker 2: tiny differences in grammar that invalidate them either losing money

2655
02:18:47,840 --> 02:18:50,119
Speaker 2: or mean that they should have won the art like

2656
02:18:50,120 --> 02:18:52,800
Speaker 2: like none of this is about what actually happened. It's

2657
02:18:52,920 --> 02:18:55,080
Speaker 2: it's becoming as much about what you can game or

2658
02:18:55,120 --> 02:18:57,680
Speaker 2: like threaten the news into not reporting. As we talked

2659
02:18:57,680 --> 02:19:00,000
Speaker 2: about the week before last with that case in Israel

2660
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:01,840
Speaker 2: and insider trading and insider trading.

2661
02:19:01,959 --> 02:19:05,440
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, it's it's just turning politics into like a

2662
02:19:05,480 --> 02:19:06,279
Speaker 11: corrupt casino.

2663
02:19:06,360 --> 02:19:08,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just mob sports betting.

2664
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:10,440
Speaker 11: It's worse than sports betting because sports betting is actually

2665
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:13,280
Speaker 11: based on like real odds. Right, These odds are completely

2666
02:19:13,320 --> 02:19:16,039
Speaker 11: created by users with their money. Like it's it's it's

2667
02:19:16,080 --> 02:19:19,280
Speaker 11: completely manufactured. There's no actual basis for a lot of

2668
02:19:19,320 --> 02:19:22,119
Speaker 11: these bets, right, Like like the betting on the papal conclave.

2669
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:25,680
Speaker 11: There's no basis for an American pope getting elected, right,

2670
02:19:25,720 --> 02:19:29,320
Speaker 11: there's no actual odds that were like mathematically certain.

2671
02:19:29,640 --> 02:19:33,360
Speaker 3: It's just created through through money. Well, to be fair,

2672
02:19:33,440 --> 02:19:35,080
Speaker 3: the sports odds are also just kind of made up.

2673
02:19:35,120 --> 02:19:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah guys too, but like yeah, you no, real's just

2674
02:19:39,160 --> 02:19:40,080
Speaker 3: a tidy fit.

2675
02:19:40,600 --> 02:19:44,640
Speaker 7: Vibes based like it's people looking at horses. It's a

2676
02:19:44,640 --> 02:19:49,360
Speaker 7: lot of what's happening in sports betting, yes, making approving. Yeah,

2677
02:19:49,400 --> 02:19:52,160
Speaker 7: I think I saw that something close to a billion

2678
02:19:52,280 --> 02:19:58,440
Speaker 7: dollars was bet on oil prices as we approach Trump's deadline.

2679
02:19:57,920 --> 02:20:02,039
Speaker 3: We already had that just play the oil futures market too.

2680
02:20:01,920 --> 02:20:05,720
Speaker 11: Complicands for people. I guess God, damn it, No, it's

2681
02:20:05,760 --> 02:20:09,480
Speaker 11: really bad. According to a March poll from the Institute

2682
02:20:09,480 --> 02:20:13,080
Speaker 11: for a Middle East Understanding Policy Project sampling almost six

2683
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:19,720
Speaker 11: hundred Texas Democratic primary voters, seventy six percent say Israel's

2684
02:20:19,720 --> 02:20:22,120
Speaker 11: committing Jena, Siden and Gaza, and eighty percent support ending

2685
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:26,400
Speaker 11: weapons funding to Israel. Forty four percent of Tallarika voters

2686
02:20:26,440 --> 02:20:28,680
Speaker 11: said his criticism of Israel was important to them and

2687
02:20:28,760 --> 02:20:31,880
Speaker 11: swayed their vote over one in five voters. Twenty two

2688
02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:35,480
Speaker 11: percent said reducing support for Israel was one of their

2689
02:20:35,560 --> 02:20:40,200
Speaker 11: top three factors impacting their vote, while only two percent

2690
02:20:40,280 --> 02:20:44,359
Speaker 11: said the same about increasing or maintaining support for Israel,

2691
02:20:44,640 --> 02:20:47,160
Speaker 11: and eighty eight percent of voters said they agreed with

2692
02:20:47,200 --> 02:20:50,080
Speaker 11: the statement to Tallarico made during a primary debate about

2693
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:55,880
Speaker 11: cutting off weapons to Israel. On Sunday night, thirteen gunshots

2694
02:20:55,879 --> 02:20:59,600
Speaker 11: were fired into the front door of Indianapolis City County

2695
02:20:59,600 --> 02:21:02,959
Speaker 11: council Ron Gibson, who just voted to approve a half

2696
02:21:02,959 --> 02:21:06,120
Speaker 11: a billion dollar data center. A note was left under

2697
02:21:06,120 --> 02:21:10,720
Speaker 11: the doormat that read no data centers quote unquote. Gibson

2698
02:21:10,760 --> 02:21:13,480
Speaker 11: and his son were home at the time of the shooting.

2699
02:21:13,920 --> 02:21:17,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, these data centers are really staggeringly unpopular. There's been

2700
02:21:17,400 --> 02:21:20,120
Speaker 3: a bunch of reporting on even the ones that are

2701
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:23,720
Speaker 3: attempted to be built, something like fifty percent of them

2702
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:26,840
Speaker 3: are just not able to do it because of massive

2703
02:21:26,920 --> 02:21:28,800
Speaker 3: public local backlash.

2704
02:21:28,320 --> 02:21:31,480
Speaker 2: Because it makes life worse around them. Nakey power bells

2705
02:21:31,520 --> 02:21:32,360
Speaker 2: go up there loud.

2706
02:21:32,879 --> 02:21:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's like old school. It's like old

2707
02:21:34,920 --> 02:21:38,080
Speaker 3: school environmental nimbiism, sort of like I don't want these

2708
02:21:38,080 --> 02:21:40,600
Speaker 3: assholes in my small town stuff. There's just like the

2709
02:21:40,640 --> 02:21:43,959
Speaker 3: Antai sentiment in general, They're hideously unpopular and this kind

2710
02:21:43,959 --> 02:21:46,920
Speaker 3: of stuff is just going to continue as these data

2711
02:21:46,920 --> 02:21:49,119
Speaker 3: centers continue to be built.

2712
02:21:49,480 --> 02:21:50,440
Speaker 7: Okay, time for me.

2713
02:21:51,400 --> 02:21:51,480
Speaker 8: So.

2714
02:21:51,680 --> 02:21:54,480
Speaker 7: Donald Trump has said that he will discuss the United

2715
02:21:54,480 --> 02:21:58,680
Speaker 7: States withdrawal from NATO for those who work in the

2716
02:21:58,720 --> 02:22:01,200
Speaker 7: New York Times as a North Atlanta Take Treaty Organization

2717
02:22:01,760 --> 02:22:05,200
Speaker 7: with Mark Rutter, who is the NATO Secretary General, during

2718
02:22:05,240 --> 02:22:08,080
Speaker 7: their meeting, which will happen today which is Wednesday, April eighth.

2719
02:22:08,800 --> 02:22:13,359
Speaker 3: If question Mark this happens, it would be utterly aparcal,

2720
02:22:13,800 --> 02:22:15,560
Speaker 3: Like it would be one of the two things they're

2721
02:22:15,560 --> 02:22:17,720
Speaker 3: going to point out as like the dawning of the New.

2722
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:19,760
Speaker 7: Era of Yes, seismic shift.

2723
02:22:19,879 --> 02:22:22,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, like what geopolitics is, this is like the fundamental

2724
02:22:22,959 --> 02:22:28,200
Speaker 3: basis of this in this week, or like ceasing to exist. Yeah.

2725
02:22:28,520 --> 02:22:32,840
Speaker 7: Shelly Kittelsen has been released by Katipos Bula after they

2726
02:22:32,920 --> 02:22:36,240
Speaker 7: made her read a video confession in which she confessed

2727
02:22:36,240 --> 02:22:41,040
Speaker 7: and to be very clear, this is very clearly extracted fashion. Yes,

2728
02:22:41,920 --> 02:22:43,879
Speaker 7: the thing in this is it is true. But in

2729
02:22:43,920 --> 02:22:46,520
Speaker 7: the video they made her confess to passing information to

2730
02:22:46,720 --> 02:22:50,560
Speaker 7: US consulate in Baghdad. In one point in the video

2731
02:22:50,640 --> 02:22:52,840
Speaker 7: she said she had been collecting information on leaders but

2732
02:22:52,959 --> 02:22:57,800
Speaker 7: forgotten their names, which is very credible and true.

2733
02:22:57,640 --> 02:23:00,760
Speaker 3: Most real con fashion, Yeah to Ludigris.

2734
02:23:01,120 --> 02:23:05,160
Speaker 7: Her release came after IRAQ released several catigue Has Boller members,

2735
02:23:05,720 --> 02:23:08,400
Speaker 7: so seems like a straight swap, which is what this

2736
02:23:08,560 --> 02:23:10,360
Speaker 7: was about in the first place. Right, it's not about

2737
02:23:10,400 --> 02:23:12,959
Speaker 7: her or her work per se, It's about her being

2738
02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:18,280
Speaker 7: a trading chip that they can create. Finally, Republican Brandon

2739
02:23:18,480 --> 02:23:23,600
Speaker 7: gil has sharply criticized the dignities like Dignity dald Act recently,

2740
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:26,640
Speaker 7: and this has become like something of an online discourse

2741
02:23:26,680 --> 02:23:29,480
Speaker 7: topic on the right. I'm not exactly sure why it's

2742
02:23:29,520 --> 02:23:30,680
Speaker 7: happening now.

2743
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:31,680
Speaker 3: Rep.

2744
02:23:31,720 --> 02:23:35,080
Speaker 7: Salazar from Florida has tried to introduce this act several

2745
02:23:35,120 --> 02:23:37,080
Speaker 7: times in the last few years. We've actually covered it

2746
02:23:37,120 --> 02:23:40,240
Speaker 7: when it was introduced in twenty twenty five on this show.

2747
02:23:40,600 --> 02:23:45,040
Speaker 7: It's a bipartisan act to reform the immigration system.

2748
02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:46,640
Speaker 3: That is bad.

2749
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:50,480
Speaker 7: It creates what's called a dignity status, which is essentially

2750
02:23:50,760 --> 02:23:54,240
Speaker 7: like an underclass of people who there is no pathway citizenship,

2751
02:23:54,280 --> 02:23:56,560
Speaker 7: there is no pathway to voting, but it comes with

2752
02:23:57,080 --> 02:23:59,280
Speaker 7: the right to renew it and the right to residency right,

2753
02:23:59,320 --> 02:24:01,960
Speaker 7: so it creates it's like a sub citizen class. It's

2754
02:24:02,040 --> 02:24:05,920
Speaker 7: bad that it's not a progressive immigration reform.

2755
02:24:05,720 --> 02:24:08,879
Speaker 11: But is Brandon Gill criticizing it from the right?

2756
02:24:09,320 --> 02:24:11,760
Speaker 7: Gil is coming from another perspective, then, I am. They

2757
02:24:11,760 --> 02:24:15,880
Speaker 7: think it gives incentives for illegal immigration and it's an amnesty.

2758
02:24:15,959 --> 02:24:17,520
Speaker 11: Okay, Yeah, so he's criticizing from the right.

2759
02:24:18,200 --> 02:24:21,840
Speaker 7: It's interesting to see the split among Republicans on this,

2760
02:24:21,920 --> 02:24:23,400
Speaker 7: and that's why I wanted to bring it in. Right

2761
02:24:23,400 --> 02:24:26,119
Speaker 7: that we spoke last time about the Florida sheriffs breaking

2762
02:24:26,200 --> 02:24:30,039
Speaker 7: with Trump on mass deportations. There are a number of

2763
02:24:30,120 --> 02:24:33,080
Speaker 7: things which indicate that there is clearly a faction of

2764
02:24:33,080 --> 02:24:37,840
Speaker 7: the Republican Party, which is realized massive deportation of people

2765
02:24:37,879 --> 02:24:40,840
Speaker 7: who have not been accused or convicted of any crime.

2766
02:24:41,480 --> 02:24:46,320
Speaker 7: It's not a popular stance, especially when you keep killing people.

2767
02:24:47,160 --> 02:24:51,200
Speaker 7: On that note, actually, ice have shot somebody else that

2768
02:24:51,360 --> 02:24:55,920
Speaker 7: this broke relatively late on Tuesday night. They shot someone

2769
02:24:55,959 --> 02:25:01,000
Speaker 7: in Patterson, California. The person has been identified Carlos Iva

2770
02:25:01,040 --> 02:25:05,959
Speaker 7: Mendoso Hernandez. He's wanted in El Salvador for questioning a

2771
02:25:05,959 --> 02:25:10,040
Speaker 7: connection to a murder. It is another of those incidents

2772
02:25:10,040 --> 02:25:13,480
Speaker 7: in which they accused a person of weaponizing their vehicle,

2773
02:25:13,600 --> 02:25:15,800
Speaker 7: and there is a dash cam video which has been

2774
02:25:15,840 --> 02:25:18,680
Speaker 7: released which shows a person attempting to leave in a vehicle.

2775
02:25:19,480 --> 02:25:20,840
Speaker 7: It's a little hard to tell if the person who's

2776
02:25:20,840 --> 02:25:23,280
Speaker 7: attempting to weaponize their vehicle, but it doesn't look that

2777
02:25:23,400 --> 02:25:26,240
Speaker 7: way to me, so that person is trying to make

2778
02:25:26,240 --> 02:25:29,440
Speaker 7: an exit. We have seen a number of these right

2779
02:25:29,640 --> 02:25:32,720
Speaker 7: where federal immigration agents have shot people behind the wheel

2780
02:25:32,760 --> 02:25:35,440
Speaker 7: of their car. Yeah. I should add that his attorney

2781
02:25:35,480 --> 02:25:37,720
Speaker 7: claims that he is not wanted in connection with that

2782
02:25:37,879 --> 02:25:40,560
Speaker 7: murder and has provided a document from the government of

2783
02:25:40,560 --> 02:25:43,959
Speaker 7: El Salbador which seems to confirm that. So we have

2784
02:25:44,040 --> 02:25:48,039
Speaker 7: once again the DHS said versus what we seem to

2785
02:25:48,040 --> 02:25:49,720
Speaker 7: be seeing proved out by documents.

2786
02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:54,080
Speaker 11: Right before we get to Iran, which there's a lot

2787
02:25:54,120 --> 02:25:56,920
Speaker 11: to discuss, there is another news story a little bit

2788
02:25:56,920 --> 02:26:01,279
Speaker 11: closer to us that we think deserves some fair coverage.

2789
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:04,280
Speaker 11: Statements made on a podcast last year by a top

2790
02:26:04,280 --> 02:26:08,680
Speaker 11: FEMA official resurfaced this last week. Greg Phillips, who is

2791
02:26:08,720 --> 02:26:12,760
Speaker 11: in charge of disaster response, claims that he once teleported

2792
02:26:12,879 --> 02:26:16,680
Speaker 11: to a waffle house in Rome, Georgia. Phillips also says

2793
02:26:16,680 --> 02:26:19,120
Speaker 11: he experienced a separate instant in which he teleported in

2794
02:26:19,160 --> 02:26:22,640
Speaker 11: front of a church. The fact that this was a

2795
02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:25,039
Speaker 11: waffle house does lend a story a bit of credibility.

2796
02:26:25,720 --> 02:26:28,840
Speaker 11: I have suspected for years there's some sort of paranormal

2797
02:26:29,080 --> 02:26:32,760
Speaker 11: field around waffle houses. Personally, I believe that when you

2798
02:26:32,800 --> 02:26:35,600
Speaker 11: walk into one, there is a small chance you could

2799
02:26:35,600 --> 02:26:39,800
Speaker 11: walk out of another in a separate location. The craft

2800
02:26:39,840 --> 02:26:42,920
Speaker 11: store Michaels has a similar has a similar energy to it.

2801
02:26:43,040 --> 02:26:46,480
Speaker 2: Look, anyone who's gone drunk to enough waffle houses knows

2802
02:26:46,520 --> 02:26:47,160
Speaker 2: that that's true.

2803
02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:49,320
Speaker 11: Right, So there is an aspect of the story which

2804
02:26:49,400 --> 02:26:52,600
Speaker 11: is very believable, but there's some details that Phillips has

2805
02:26:52,600 --> 02:26:55,240
Speaker 11: included that makes me a bit more skeptical of his

2806
02:26:55,400 --> 02:27:00,280
Speaker 11: characterization of this incident. Let's listen to his claim on

2807
02:27:00,320 --> 02:27:01,440
Speaker 11: this podcast right now.

2808
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:08,840
Speaker 16: We had a teleport at incident, two of them, which

2809
02:27:09,160 --> 02:27:14,280
Speaker 16: transported me about forty miles from from where I was

2810
02:27:14,520 --> 02:27:18,920
Speaker 16: and near Albany, Georgia, to the ditch of a to

2811
02:27:18,959 --> 02:27:22,280
Speaker 16: the ditch of a of a church chained up at

2812
02:27:22,280 --> 02:27:25,439
Speaker 16: a waffle house like fifty miles away from where I.

2813
02:27:25,200 --> 02:27:30,360
Speaker 11: Was to that. So to defend these statements, Phillips has

2814
02:27:30,400 --> 02:27:34,800
Speaker 11: taken to truth Social to share biblical accounts of teleportation

2815
02:27:35,080 --> 02:27:37,360
Speaker 11: as supporting evidence of teleportation.

2816
02:27:37,560 --> 02:27:37,840
Speaker 2: Great.

2817
02:27:39,520 --> 02:27:43,879
Speaker 11: Employees at the three waffle houses in Rome, Georgia were

2818
02:27:43,920 --> 02:27:45,640
Speaker 11: interviewed by The New York Times, and they say they

2819
02:27:45,680 --> 02:27:49,920
Speaker 11: do not recall anyone being transported there by means of teleportation,

2820
02:27:50,440 --> 02:27:54,680
Speaker 11: nor did they recognize pictures of Greg Phillips. But in

2821
02:27:54,720 --> 02:27:57,400
Speaker 11: a follow up statement by Phillips on truth Social, he

2822
02:27:57,400 --> 02:28:00,000
Speaker 11: said he was going through cancer treatment at the time

2823
02:28:00,120 --> 02:28:04,480
Speaker 11: of this alleged teleportation incident. Quote, I was healed of

2824
02:28:04,520 --> 02:28:07,440
Speaker 11: cancer and it was a miracle. The podcast at the

2825
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:10,440
Speaker 11: center of this controversy was part of chronicling that journey,

2826
02:28:10,640 --> 02:28:14,000
Speaker 11: and during that journey things happened that I can't explain.

2827
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:18,640
Speaker 11: I was in the opening days of intensive treatment, heavily medicated,

2828
02:28:19,000 --> 02:28:23,400
Speaker 11: not thinking about future headlines. That context was nowhere in

2829
02:28:23,440 --> 02:28:27,039
Speaker 11: the reporting. Unquote. I think it is important here that

2830
02:28:27,200 --> 02:28:30,400
Speaker 11: he says he was heavily medicated during the time around.

2831
02:28:31,320 --> 02:28:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2832
02:28:33,440 --> 02:28:37,520
Speaker 7: I love how he uses cop voice like a teleportation incident.

2833
02:28:38,280 --> 02:28:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but however, I'm gonna point out that Garrison the

2834
02:28:41,640 --> 02:28:43,680
Speaker 3: next thing you're about to read, he was not heavily

2835
02:28:43,720 --> 02:28:45,720
Speaker 3: medicated when he said this, So.

2836
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:52,280
Speaker 11: Phillips added to this truth quote, the word teleportation was

2837
02:28:52,320 --> 02:28:54,960
Speaker 11: not mine. It was used by someone else in the conversation,

2838
02:28:55,520 --> 02:28:59,240
Speaker 11: reaching for a language describe something with no easy name, which.

2839
02:28:59,160 --> 02:29:00,640
Speaker 3: Is not true. He said teleport.

2840
02:29:01,120 --> 02:29:02,119
Speaker 7: He said teleport.

2841
02:29:02,720 --> 02:29:04,280
Speaker 11: I think what he means is he didn't wasn't his

2842
02:29:04,360 --> 02:29:06,440
Speaker 11: like initial term, then started using it.

2843
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:10,240
Speaker 3: Yes, he keeps using it, he continues.

2844
02:29:10,320 --> 02:29:10,600
Speaker 11: Quote.

2845
02:29:11,080 --> 02:29:16,320
Speaker 19: The more accurate biblical terms are translated or transported, not

2846
02:29:16,440 --> 02:29:18,959
Speaker 19: new ideas for people of faith. If you believe that

2847
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:21,560
Speaker 19: God moves in ways we cannot fully explain, as I do,

2848
02:29:21,920 --> 02:29:24,279
Speaker 19: then having faith is not a SoundBite.

2849
02:29:24,680 --> 02:29:28,080
Speaker 11: It is the whole point. I believe in miracles. All caps,

2850
02:29:28,160 --> 02:29:32,359
Speaker 11: God bless America. He has risen unquote. Now, one detail

2851
02:29:32,640 --> 02:29:36,039
Speaker 11: from the podcast that has not been mentioned as much,

2852
02:29:36,320 --> 02:29:39,119
Speaker 11: I think offers to help some idea of what's what's

2853
02:29:39,120 --> 02:29:40,160
Speaker 11: really going on here.

2854
02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:46,640
Speaker 16: It was an incredibly frightening moment to experience yourself in

2855
02:29:46,720 --> 02:29:50,440
Speaker 16: your car flying through the air.

2856
02:29:50,560 --> 02:29:52,199
Speaker 5: It was possible, it was real.

2857
02:29:52,879 --> 02:29:54,240
Speaker 7: He was teleposted in his car.

2858
02:29:54,600 --> 02:29:56,920
Speaker 11: He was in his car, which for me changes this

2859
02:29:57,200 --> 02:30:00,920
Speaker 11: entire thing, because these headlines were kind of kind of

2860
02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:06,200
Speaker 11: imagine as if his body like dematerialized somewhere, remateialized in

2861
02:30:06,240 --> 02:30:09,360
Speaker 11: a waffle house something that's you know, you know, certainly he.

2862
02:30:09,440 --> 02:30:13,879
Speaker 2: Just blacked out while driving, which is very different, which

2863
02:30:13,959 --> 02:30:15,119
Speaker 2: is very different.

2864
02:30:17,120 --> 02:30:18,680
Speaker 7: When we were driving around Texas.

2865
02:30:19,000 --> 02:30:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I tell I teleported on Xanax one about thirty

2866
02:30:22,959 --> 02:30:23,960
Speaker 2: hours into the future.

2867
02:30:24,480 --> 02:30:27,840
Speaker 11: So the fact that he was owned doubt while driving

2868
02:30:27,879 --> 02:30:30,680
Speaker 11: and ended up at a waffle house much more, much

2869
02:30:30,760 --> 02:30:35,680
Speaker 11: more explainable. Because many many people in slightly and slightly

2870
02:30:35,720 --> 02:30:40,600
Speaker 11: all downright downright outside of waffle houses in their car.

2871
02:30:41,120 --> 02:30:43,040
Speaker 11: This is a very common occurred. This is probably about

2872
02:30:43,160 --> 02:30:46,360
Speaker 11: maybe ten to ten to thirty percent of the waffle

2873
02:30:46,360 --> 02:30:50,080
Speaker 11: house clientele shows up in this sort of environment where

2874
02:30:50,840 --> 02:30:53,879
Speaker 11: they are they are not operating on their full faculties,

2875
02:30:53,959 --> 02:30:58,320
Speaker 11: either through some sort of drugs, alcohol, medication, what have you.

2876
02:30:58,560 --> 02:31:00,640
Speaker 2: I've seen UFOs at a waffle house before.

2877
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:03,560
Speaker 11: No, right, the wabble houses are you know, are have

2878
02:31:03,680 --> 02:31:06,879
Speaker 11: some kind of poll that I think attracts people like

2879
02:31:06,920 --> 02:31:09,160
Speaker 11: a magnet who are in US in an altered state,

2880
02:31:09,320 --> 02:31:11,040
Speaker 11: towards them as like a beacon.

2881
02:31:11,280 --> 02:31:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that poll is smothered and covered hash browns.

2882
02:31:14,520 --> 02:31:17,680
Speaker 7: Yes so. And the fact that I'm right open at

2883
02:31:17,720 --> 02:31:18,440
Speaker 7: four am.

2884
02:31:18,640 --> 02:31:21,120
Speaker 2: Oh, and bathrooms you can do heroin in don't forget

2885
02:31:21,160 --> 02:31:23,400
Speaker 2: that says it on the sign.

2886
02:31:24,240 --> 02:31:27,119
Speaker 3: I also want to make sure that we mentioned that.

2887
02:31:27,160 --> 02:31:29,840
Speaker 3: In the same week in which The New York Times,

2888
02:31:29,879 --> 02:31:31,640
Speaker 3: the guy who was writing the headline didn't know what

2889
02:31:31,760 --> 02:31:35,080
Speaker 3: NATO stood for. They also titled the initial title of

2890
02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:38,640
Speaker 3: the article they wrote about this was anti quote. FEMA

2891
02:31:38,720 --> 02:31:43,279
Speaker 3: official says he teleported to waffle house. Experts are dubious.

2892
02:31:44,680 --> 02:31:50,280
Speaker 3: This is this might be the worst. Experts disagree Headlight. Ever,

2893
02:31:52,400 --> 02:31:53,160
Speaker 3: I think this is good.

2894
02:31:53,200 --> 02:31:56,160
Speaker 11: I actually, out of out of the two poles of

2895
02:31:56,240 --> 02:31:58,959
Speaker 11: New York New York Times headlines this week, the data

2896
02:31:59,000 --> 02:32:02,560
Speaker 11: one is this one. Fully I fully agree with I

2897
02:32:02,600 --> 02:32:05,879
Speaker 11: fully agree with their their choice to say that experts

2898
02:32:05,920 --> 02:32:07,320
Speaker 11: are due because about teleportation.

2899
02:32:07,680 --> 02:32:09,520
Speaker 7: This does make me sad because in New York Times

2900
02:32:09,600 --> 02:32:12,279
Speaker 7: is also the outlet that ran what is, in my opinion,

2901
02:32:12,320 --> 02:32:15,240
Speaker 7: the best headline ever written. It was about the fact

2902
02:32:15,280 --> 02:32:19,560
Speaker 7: that moray good Okay. It was other subject of a

2903
02:32:19,840 --> 02:32:23,359
Speaker 7: scientific study which looked at moray eels and their ability

2904
02:32:23,400 --> 02:32:26,520
Speaker 7: to climb a ramp out of a pool to eat

2905
02:32:26,520 --> 02:32:28,920
Speaker 7: some food, which proved in theory that moray eels could

2906
02:32:28,959 --> 02:32:31,840
Speaker 7: hunt on land, and the headline was when an eel

2907
02:32:31,879 --> 02:32:34,240
Speaker 7: climbs a ramp to eat a squid from a clamp.

2908
02:32:34,520 --> 02:32:37,800
Speaker 3: That's a more ray title from a better time.

2909
02:32:38,040 --> 02:32:43,080
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, what a different Yeah yeah whoever wrote that.

2910
02:32:43,200 --> 02:32:44,520
Speaker 7: I hope you're doing well.

2911
02:32:47,560 --> 02:32:52,640
Speaker 11: We will now teleport to an ad break and remterialize

2912
02:32:52,720 --> 02:32:58,480
Speaker 11: to discuss the back and forth ceasefire not ceasefire with Ron.

2913
02:33:11,640 --> 02:33:14,480
Speaker 2: We're back and depending on when you listen to this,

2914
02:33:14,600 --> 02:33:17,440
Speaker 2: we may either read back to War with Iran the

2915
02:33:17,480 --> 02:33:20,400
Speaker 2: straight up four moves could be closed or open. We're

2916
02:33:20,440 --> 02:33:28,720
Speaker 2: in like uh just this this beautiful? Like uh uh roadingers.

2917
02:33:30,040 --> 02:33:31,560
Speaker 2: No one knows where it's gonna.

2918
02:33:31,280 --> 02:33:34,040
Speaker 7: Go after this. Yeah, if you don't open your phone

2919
02:33:34,600 --> 02:33:36,560
Speaker 7: then and you never know how many wars since cease

2920
02:33:36,600 --> 02:33:38,800
Speaker 7: fires have started since the last time you opened your phone.

2921
02:33:38,879 --> 02:33:41,160
Speaker 2: That's right. They can't make you believe that a war

2922
02:33:41,360 --> 02:33:44,440
Speaker 2: is going on if you choose to not be informed. Yeah,

2923
02:33:44,480 --> 02:33:46,279
Speaker 2: other than by looking at gas prices.

2924
02:33:46,760 --> 02:33:48,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that that is a thing.

2925
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:49,280
Speaker 5: God.

2926
02:33:49,600 --> 02:33:52,360
Speaker 7: All right, let's let's try and do this in chronological order,

2927
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:56,240
Speaker 7: because this week has been bonkers. So let's start with

2928
02:33:56,480 --> 02:33:59,320
Speaker 7: last Friday when you last listen to ed listening to

2929
02:33:59,360 --> 02:34:03,920
Speaker 7: Baby released a good Friday, And that is kind of

2930
02:34:03,959 --> 02:34:07,840
Speaker 7: important because a United States Air Force fifteen eighth Strike

2931
02:34:07,920 --> 02:34:11,560
Speaker 7: Eagle belonging to the forty eighth Fighter Wing, crashed in

2932
02:34:11,640 --> 02:34:15,519
Speaker 7: southwestern Iran last Friday after being hit by a manpad

2933
02:34:16,160 --> 02:34:18,959
Speaker 7: that the manpads is a shoulder fired surface to air missile.

2934
02:34:19,640 --> 02:34:23,760
Speaker 7: The plane carries a pilot and a WIZZO WSOS an ancronym.

2935
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:28,560
Speaker 7: It means weapons systems officer or weapons systems operator. I'm

2936
02:34:28,600 --> 02:34:30,560
Speaker 7: just going to call them a weapons officer just to

2937
02:34:30,560 --> 02:34:33,959
Speaker 7: make it easier for everyone going forward. And both crew

2938
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:37,959
Speaker 7: members safely self ejected from the plane. The United States

2939
02:34:38,040 --> 02:34:41,360
Speaker 7: very quickly launched a massive CISAR that's combat search and

2940
02:34:41,400 --> 02:34:45,440
Speaker 7: rescue operation involving helicopters, low flying aircraft and close air

2941
02:34:45,440 --> 02:34:51,000
Speaker 7: support from both MQ nine Reaper drones and eight ten aircraft.

2942
02:34:51,440 --> 02:34:54,080
Speaker 7: During this operation, in which the aircraft flew within small

2943
02:34:54,160 --> 02:34:58,680
Speaker 7: arms range of the ground in Kuzustan Province, several aircraft

2944
02:34:58,720 --> 02:35:02,920
Speaker 7: were damaged. One of the Jolly Green to rescue helicopters

2945
02:35:03,560 --> 02:35:07,480
Speaker 7: was hit with small arms fire, an eight ten thunderbolt

2946
02:35:07,600 --> 02:35:10,480
Speaker 7: crashed in the strait of horn Moves and the pilot

2947
02:35:10,560 --> 02:35:14,119
Speaker 7: was recovered. Another was hit and the pilot ejected over

2948
02:35:14,320 --> 02:35:17,080
Speaker 7: Q eight, but this effort did result in the safe

2949
02:35:17,120 --> 02:35:20,800
Speaker 7: recovery of the F fifteens pilot, but not the weapons officer.

2950
02:35:21,400 --> 02:35:27,280
Speaker 7: The following day, that happened during the day, right in

2951
02:35:27,400 --> 02:35:31,000
Speaker 7: daylight hours, which is remarkable. It is extremely rare to

2952
02:35:31,040 --> 02:35:35,800
Speaker 7: see this happening right like low flying helicopters over what

2953
02:35:35,959 --> 02:35:38,960
Speaker 7: is notion the enemy territory in the middle of the daytime.

2954
02:35:39,360 --> 02:35:43,480
Speaker 7: On Easter Sunday, the United States launched a huge operation

2955
02:35:43,560 --> 02:35:46,760
Speaker 7: which resulted in the recovery of the weapons officer. This

2956
02:35:46,959 --> 02:35:50,800
Speaker 7: was preceded by a disinformation campaign which hoped to make

2957
02:35:50,879 --> 02:35:54,959
Speaker 7: the Iranian state believe that they had extracted the weapons

2958
02:35:55,000 --> 02:35:58,240
Speaker 7: officer by land, which they hadn't. The operation involved a

2959
02:35:58,280 --> 02:36:01,080
Speaker 7: ton of Special Operations Forces as sets who flew to

2960
02:36:01,160 --> 02:36:05,680
Speaker 7: an agricultural airstrip outside Isfahan. This seems to have gone

2961
02:36:05,800 --> 02:36:09,959
Speaker 7: largely unremarked upon in the reporting. There is some crackpot

2962
02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:13,280
Speaker 7: theory that this was all cover for an operation that

2963
02:36:13,440 --> 02:36:16,760
Speaker 7: extracted enriched geranium from Isfahan because there is a nuclear

2964
02:36:16,760 --> 02:36:19,880
Speaker 7: research acility Isfahan. I have not seen any evidence to

2965
02:36:19,879 --> 02:36:23,000
Speaker 7: support that, but I think it is likely that they

2966
02:36:23,120 --> 02:36:27,160
Speaker 7: knew of this agricultural airstrip because of plans which were

2967
02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:31,680
Speaker 7: made for a potential raid on the Isfahan nuclear research

2968
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:36,720
Speaker 7: facility during the operation m Q nine and ripa drone's

2969
02:36:37,560 --> 02:36:41,240
Speaker 7: bombed quote military age males who were close to the airmen.

2970
02:36:41,840 --> 02:36:44,920
Speaker 7: Iran had offered a reward of sixty thousand dollars for

2971
02:36:45,280 --> 02:36:48,440
Speaker 7: capturing this person before the United States got to them.

2972
02:36:49,080 --> 02:36:52,640
Speaker 7: And it is common for people in this area who like,

2973
02:36:52,920 --> 02:36:56,119
Speaker 7: if you're like herding animals, right to carry a gun,

2974
02:36:56,240 --> 02:37:00,080
Speaker 7: like to protect their animals or to protect themselves. There

2975
02:37:00,120 --> 02:37:03,800
Speaker 7: were some kind of propaganday videos of like local people

2976
02:37:04,080 --> 02:37:06,680
Speaker 7: looking for the m and right, they were carrying like

2977
02:37:06,720 --> 02:37:11,320
Speaker 7: Iranian flags and they're like antiquated bolt action rifles. But

2978
02:37:11,440 --> 02:37:14,160
Speaker 7: it's also very possible that some of these drone strikes

2979
02:37:14,760 --> 02:37:16,920
Speaker 7: may have occurred against people who were just going about

2980
02:37:16,920 --> 02:37:19,800
Speaker 7: their business in the region, right, Like if they didn't

2981
02:37:20,120 --> 02:37:22,840
Speaker 7: they said military age males that it's a broad remit.

2982
02:37:22,959 --> 02:37:25,119
Speaker 7: Any anyone who would out there being a shepherd would

2983
02:37:25,160 --> 02:37:26,640
Speaker 7: be a military age.

2984
02:37:26,440 --> 02:37:28,760
Speaker 11: Male, right, would be a military aged Yeah.

2985
02:37:28,840 --> 02:37:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like one of the most sickening terms

2986
02:37:32,400 --> 02:37:33,720
Speaker 3: US warfare is invented.

2987
02:37:34,200 --> 02:37:37,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, military age mail is like anyone anytime people are

2988
02:37:37,120 --> 02:37:39,720
Speaker 7: using that, like you got a doesn't pass the SNIF test.

2989
02:37:39,840 --> 02:37:42,040
Speaker 11: No, it could be anyone from to like fourteen years

2990
02:37:42,080 --> 02:37:44,440
Speaker 11: old to like sixty nine exactly.

2991
02:37:44,560 --> 02:37:44,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2992
02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:47,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2993
02:37:46,959 --> 02:37:49,280
Speaker 2: You'll be surprised who looks like an adult when you're

2994
02:37:49,280 --> 02:37:50,440
Speaker 2: a scared man with a gun.

2995
02:37:50,720 --> 02:37:53,720
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, or looking from thousands of feet up on

2996
02:37:54,160 --> 02:37:55,000
Speaker 7: its own camera.

2997
02:37:55,120 --> 02:37:55,320
Speaker 5: Right.

2998
02:37:55,560 --> 02:37:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2999
02:37:55,959 --> 02:37:59,160
Speaker 3: It's a term invented for we are just going to

3000
02:37:59,160 --> 02:38:01,360
Speaker 3: start shooting at the people. We have no idea who

3001
02:38:01,360 --> 02:38:03,320
Speaker 3: they are, were just going to kill them. Yeah, and

3002
02:38:03,400 --> 02:38:04,320
Speaker 3: it's hideous.

3003
02:38:04,480 --> 02:38:07,400
Speaker 7: I was recently rereading I think it's called a Theory

3004
02:38:07,400 --> 02:38:10,000
Speaker 7: of the Drone. It's a philosophy book about drones and

3005
02:38:10,120 --> 02:38:12,760
Speaker 7: drone warfare, and there's a scene in the opening of

3006
02:38:12,760 --> 02:38:14,959
Speaker 7: that which I think is which you can probably get

3007
02:38:14,959 --> 02:38:16,520
Speaker 7: the free preview of the book if you have a

3008
02:38:16,600 --> 02:38:18,879
Speaker 7: kindle and read that scene. But it's very illustrative of

3009
02:38:18,920 --> 02:38:23,280
Speaker 7: how vague this term can be. The rescue operation saw

3010
02:38:23,520 --> 02:38:27,920
Speaker 7: the planes land at an airstrip. Then a little bit

3011
02:38:28,000 --> 02:38:32,800
Speaker 7: helicopter took off collected the airmen who had been evading,

3012
02:38:32,800 --> 02:38:35,600
Speaker 7: capturing a mountainous area. He was then carried back by

3013
02:38:35,600 --> 02:38:38,720
Speaker 7: the helicopter to the airstrip where the two larger aircrafts

3014
02:38:38,720 --> 02:38:40,720
Speaker 7: that had bought the helicopter and all the personnel had

3015
02:38:40,760 --> 02:38:41,600
Speaker 7: become stuck.

3016
02:38:41,920 --> 02:38:42,640
Speaker 3: Incredible.

3017
02:38:43,280 --> 02:38:46,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I guess normally they would do some

3018
02:38:46,280 --> 02:38:48,160
Speaker 7: kind of soil sampling, but I think there probably just

3019
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:53,199
Speaker 7: wasn't time. Yeah, So the United States elected to destroy

3020
02:38:53,320 --> 02:38:57,080
Speaker 7: those aircraft in place and send three more aircraft to

3021
02:38:57,160 --> 02:39:01,680
Speaker 7: recover their personnel. And we can see that Iran has

3022
02:39:01,680 --> 02:39:03,680
Speaker 7: published footage to that. Right, it seems that they also

3023
02:39:03,760 --> 02:39:07,039
Speaker 7: destroyed the Little Bird helicopters. I've seen some reporting that

3024
02:39:07,080 --> 02:39:09,360
Speaker 7: the Little Bird helicopters were just like on a one

3025
02:39:09,400 --> 02:39:12,760
Speaker 7: way flight, that they flew into Iran knowing that their

3026
02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:15,680
Speaker 7: range wasn't long enough for them to fly back, and

3027
02:39:15,680 --> 02:39:18,119
Speaker 7: that they always plan to destroy them. I don't think

3028
02:39:18,160 --> 02:39:20,000
Speaker 7: that's the case. I think they got them out the

3029
02:39:20,040 --> 02:39:22,320
Speaker 7: back of the sea one thirties and assembled them quickly.

3030
02:39:22,360 --> 02:39:25,040
Speaker 7: That that is a thing they have the capacity to do,

3031
02:39:25,120 --> 02:39:28,680
Speaker 7: and that is what makes the most sense. So on

3032
02:39:28,800 --> 02:39:31,560
Speaker 7: that same day, Easter Sunday, kind of a big deal

3033
02:39:32,080 --> 02:39:37,320
Speaker 7: for the Christian folks, Donald Trump truth the following quote,

3034
02:39:37,440 --> 02:39:40,360
Speaker 7: Tuesday will be power plant Day and bridge Day all

3035
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:42,920
Speaker 7: wrapped up in one in Iran. There will be nothing

3036
02:39:43,080 --> 02:39:46,600
Speaker 7: like it. Open the fucking straight, you crazy bastards, or

3037
02:39:46,640 --> 02:39:47,760
Speaker 7: you will be living in hell.

3038
02:39:48,320 --> 02:39:48,840
Speaker 3: Just watch.

3039
02:39:49,280 --> 02:39:52,600
Speaker 7: Praise be to Allah.

3040
02:39:52,640 --> 02:39:53,640
Speaker 2: I love the president.

3041
02:39:54,040 --> 02:39:56,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, that is a that is the leader of

3042
02:39:56,320 --> 02:39:57,879
Speaker 7: the free world. Yeah.

3043
02:39:58,040 --> 02:40:01,000
Speaker 3: My extremely low staged conspiracy that this was not Trump.

3044
02:40:01,040 --> 02:40:04,560
Speaker 3: This was written by Trump's staff because it's slightly off,

3045
02:40:04,920 --> 02:40:05,520
Speaker 3: it could have been.

3046
02:40:05,600 --> 02:40:08,279
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like him, really.

3047
02:40:08,160 --> 02:40:10,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's not normally a like he gets.

3048
02:40:11,360 --> 02:40:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of stuff isn't really him. No, that's

3049
02:40:15,440 --> 02:40:17,160
Speaker 2: a weird thing for him to throw it.

3050
02:40:17,200 --> 02:40:20,400
Speaker 11: I can very easily believe that this is that this

3051
02:40:20,480 --> 02:40:22,520
Speaker 11: is him like going nuts on something.

3052
02:40:23,320 --> 02:40:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, like he could have done possible. I think there's

3053
02:40:25,959 --> 02:40:28,400
Speaker 3: a low chance that this was what this was like

3054
02:40:28,440 --> 02:40:29,560
Speaker 3: a staff written thing.

3055
02:40:30,240 --> 02:40:34,039
Speaker 2: It's just it's it's it's weird wording from him, like

3056
02:40:34,120 --> 02:40:37,120
Speaker 2: it's a strange message, although the last couple from him

3057
02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:38,440
Speaker 2: have all seemed kind of strange.

3058
02:40:38,520 --> 02:40:39,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is just out of it.

3059
02:40:39,959 --> 02:40:42,680
Speaker 2: The one he put up after the ceasefire announcement where

3060
02:40:42,760 --> 02:40:45,000
Speaker 2: he's like where he puts in quotations that the navy

3061
02:40:45,040 --> 02:40:48,160
Speaker 2: will be hanging round. Yeah, yeah, that's that's not doesn't

3062
02:40:48,200 --> 02:40:51,119
Speaker 2: sound like him much either, But also like who else

3063
02:40:51,160 --> 02:40:53,879
Speaker 2: would he let write that? It's He's it's just but

3064
02:40:53,959 --> 02:40:56,400
Speaker 2: it is weird, right, that does not sound like any

3065
02:40:56,480 --> 02:41:01,240
Speaker 2: previous Trump post hanging round to say fuck.

3066
02:41:01,000 --> 02:41:03,160
Speaker 7: In a Trump in a presidential tweet, Like, I don't

3067
02:41:03,200 --> 02:41:04,240
Speaker 7: know why a stuffer would do that.

3068
02:41:04,480 --> 02:41:04,959
Speaker 3: No, and I.

3069
02:41:05,240 --> 02:41:06,119
Speaker 2: Agree with you, Jays.

3070
02:41:06,560 --> 02:41:09,320
Speaker 11: These things are usually transcribed like usually he reads these

3071
02:41:09,440 --> 02:41:12,520
Speaker 11: out loud and someone writes them down and then he

3072
02:41:12,840 --> 02:41:14,760
Speaker 11: looks at them and and then and then and then

3073
02:41:14,760 --> 02:41:17,080
Speaker 11: they hit post like that. That's that's how all of

3074
02:41:17,120 --> 02:41:19,040
Speaker 11: his truths were structured in that documentary.

3075
02:41:19,080 --> 02:41:22,680
Speaker 7: Yes, does he dictate the capitalization.

3076
02:41:22,560 --> 02:41:25,039
Speaker 11: When he looks them over like he may.

3077
02:41:25,360 --> 02:41:28,080
Speaker 7: Okay, because he has a fascinating and quite unique approach

3078
02:41:28,120 --> 02:41:29,680
Speaker 7: to capitalization.

3079
02:41:29,560 --> 02:41:32,360
Speaker 11: Like specifically like there will be nothing like. It is

3080
02:41:32,400 --> 02:41:34,959
Speaker 11: definitely like a Trump a Trump verbal text.

3081
02:41:35,040 --> 02:41:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a super Trump line.

3082
02:41:37,720 --> 02:41:41,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. But then like the next part, I is weird.

3083
02:41:41,760 --> 02:41:45,840
Speaker 2: But hanging round that's that's not really a Trump sounding line.

3084
02:41:45,959 --> 02:41:48,480
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, it's weird. We we've all been distracted.

3085
02:41:48,920 --> 02:41:51,520
Speaker 7: So to talk about what he said on Tuesday, Power

3086
02:41:52,240 --> 02:41:56,280
Speaker 7: Bridge Day. Yeah, he said, quote A whole civilization will

3087
02:41:56,320 --> 02:41:58,160
Speaker 7: die tonight, never to be bought back again.

3088
02:41:58,280 --> 02:41:59,160
Speaker 2: That's a Trump line.

3089
02:41:59,240 --> 02:42:03,320
Speaker 7: Yeah. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. However,

3090
02:42:03,640 --> 02:42:06,640
Speaker 7: now that we have complete and total regime change where different,

3091
02:42:06,720 --> 02:42:12,360
Speaker 7: smarter and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something maybe something way. Yeah,

3092
02:42:12,360 --> 02:42:16,320
Speaker 7: I don't know. I'm not so sure. Maybe something revolutionarily

3093
02:42:16,360 --> 02:42:19,560
Speaker 7: wonderful can happen. Who knows. We will find out tonight

3094
02:42:20,000 --> 02:42:22,720
Speaker 7: one of the most important moments in the long and

3095
02:42:22,800 --> 02:42:26,400
Speaker 7: complex history of the world. Forty seven years of extortion,

3096
02:42:26,800 --> 02:42:30,280
Speaker 7: corruption and death will finally end. God bless the great

3097
02:42:30,280 --> 02:42:35,279
Speaker 7: people of Iran. Real journey that you go on, Yeah,

3098
02:42:35,560 --> 02:42:38,640
Speaker 7: from a civilization will die tonight to God bless the

3099
02:42:38,640 --> 02:42:44,160
Speaker 7: great people of Iran nightmarish. I don't know what to

3100
02:42:44,280 --> 02:42:47,800
Speaker 7: make of that, Like it seems like he's just they

3101
02:42:47,959 --> 02:42:52,440
Speaker 7: obviously striking civilian target. It is a war crime. It

3102
02:42:52,520 --> 02:42:54,840
Speaker 7: is a war crime Israel does all the time. We

3103
02:42:54,920 --> 02:42:58,240
Speaker 7: covered that last time we spoke a whole civilization will

3104
02:42:58,280 --> 02:43:02,880
Speaker 7: die tonight. Seems borderlin like genocidal as a threat. Yeah,

3105
02:43:03,080 --> 02:43:04,840
Speaker 7: that's that's not borderline.

3106
02:43:05,560 --> 02:43:08,400
Speaker 3: I think that is. I think that's a threat of genocide. Yeah,

3107
02:43:08,480 --> 02:43:10,279
Speaker 3: like this has been which by the way, is also

3108
02:43:10,480 --> 02:43:13,959
Speaker 3: like if you say this and then kill one person,

3109
02:43:14,360 --> 02:43:17,120
Speaker 3: like you are guilty of the crime of genocide. Yeah, yeah,

3110
02:43:17,320 --> 02:43:18,280
Speaker 3: like the genocide.

3111
02:43:18,280 --> 02:43:22,120
Speaker 7: Like it's not good. It is not good. Let's talk

3112
02:43:22,160 --> 02:43:25,840
Speaker 7: about what actually happened. Right since then, just before the deadline,

3113
02:43:26,160 --> 02:43:28,160
Speaker 7: a huge number of strikes hit a run, including the

3114
02:43:28,160 --> 02:43:31,240
Speaker 7: Ministry of Intelligence building at Chiraz. There's some evidence that

3115
02:43:31,440 --> 02:43:35,720
Speaker 7: may have had some tunnels underneath it, Aerospace Research Institute,

3116
02:43:35,879 --> 02:43:42,039
Speaker 7: bridges and aluminium factory. Brigadier General Majid Hademi, who is

3117
02:43:42,080 --> 02:43:44,720
Speaker 7: the head of IOGC Intelligence was also killed in the

3118
02:43:44,760 --> 02:43:48,960
Speaker 7: targeted strike, and we hit carg Island again. Good, finally,

3119
02:43:49,320 --> 02:43:52,840
Speaker 7: yeah yeah. Let a lot of people think that this

3120
02:43:52,920 --> 02:43:55,039
Speaker 7: might have been a precursor to some kind of US

3121
02:43:55,160 --> 02:43:56,720
Speaker 7: land operation however.

3122
02:43:56,800 --> 02:43:58,760
Speaker 11: Or nuclear weapons a lot, right.

3123
02:43:58,760 --> 02:44:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, we've seen this right again. When the president's

3124
02:44:01,640 --> 02:44:04,400
Speaker 2: saying you're gonna wipe out it doesn't make me feel calm.

3125
02:44:04,800 --> 02:44:08,080
Speaker 2: You should you should assume that the president might actually

3126
02:44:08,400 --> 02:44:10,280
Speaker 2: try to wipe out a culture. I mean, I like

3127
02:44:10,360 --> 02:44:12,920
Speaker 2: that is my strong stance on this, is that based

3128
02:44:12,920 --> 02:44:15,800
Speaker 2: on what he's saying, it is not unreasonable for people

3129
02:44:15,840 --> 02:44:18,920
Speaker 2: to flip out over this statement. It's absolutely not People

3130
02:44:18,959 --> 02:44:23,000
Speaker 2: should be outraged that a president said he they're pretty

3131
02:44:23,040 --> 02:44:26,080
Speaker 2: strong enough. It's really bad, like like it's very bad.

3132
02:44:26,400 --> 02:44:28,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like he should be hauled up in front of

3133
02:44:28,360 --> 02:44:31,240
Speaker 3: a tribunal like Meloshovic, Like I am not on team.

3134
02:44:31,480 --> 02:44:32,879
Speaker 2: We should just move past.

3135
02:44:32,640 --> 02:44:36,840
Speaker 7: This, like it's easy because everything's so insane to be

3136
02:44:36,879 --> 02:44:40,080
Speaker 7: like another insane thing everything. This is a guy who

3137
02:44:40,200 --> 02:44:42,600
Speaker 7: has the trigger for all the nukes saying he's going

3138
02:44:42,640 --> 02:44:45,680
Speaker 7: to wipe out a civilization, like I would love.

3139
02:44:45,520 --> 02:44:50,480
Speaker 2: To be the nothing ever happens. Nothing happened here, it's fine, Like,

3140
02:44:50,640 --> 02:44:54,520
Speaker 2: don't don't yield to Trump? Derangement syndrome. Guy, because it's

3141
02:44:54,560 --> 02:44:57,440
Speaker 2: a lot easier, but like this is not something anyone

3142
02:44:57,440 --> 02:44:59,640
Speaker 2: should move past. He should go on trial for like this,

3143
02:45:00,600 --> 02:45:01,920
Speaker 2: like outside of the other stuff.

3144
02:45:02,280 --> 02:45:03,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3145
02:45:03,400 --> 02:45:06,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, Each of these tweets would constitute a reason for

3146
02:45:06,320 --> 02:45:12,040
Speaker 7: a trial in any previous presidency. Since then, Pakistan offered

3147
02:45:12,040 --> 02:45:15,760
Speaker 7: to mediate a ceasefire and these are negotiated Toro on

3148
02:45:15,840 --> 02:45:20,240
Speaker 7: going as Donald Trump was true thing. Iran reportedly made

3149
02:45:20,280 --> 02:45:23,560
Speaker 7: a list of its own demands. This is a translation

3150
02:45:23,680 --> 02:45:26,800
Speaker 7: from Persians, so not a word for word quotation, right.

3151
02:45:27,240 --> 02:45:30,200
Speaker 7: It listed these in its telegram channels as control passage

3152
02:45:30,200 --> 02:45:33,560
Speaker 7: through the Strait Offorn Muse in coordination with Iran's arm forces,

3153
02:45:34,560 --> 02:45:37,480
Speaker 7: the necessity of ending the war against all components of

3154
02:45:37,520 --> 02:45:40,800
Speaker 7: the Axis of Resistance, that withdrawal of US combat forces

3155
02:45:40,840 --> 02:45:43,840
Speaker 7: from all bases and deployments in the region, establishing a

3156
02:45:43,879 --> 02:45:46,640
Speaker 7: secure transit protocol and the straight ofform Mouse that guarantees

3157
02:45:46,680 --> 02:45:51,280
Speaker 7: Iranian control, full payment of damages to Iran, removal of

3158
02:45:51,280 --> 02:45:56,160
Speaker 7: all primary and secondary sanctions, the release of frozen Iranian

3159
02:45:56,240 --> 02:45:59,200
Speaker 7: assets and property abroad, and the ratification of all these

3160
02:45:59,240 --> 02:46:04,640
Speaker 7: items in a UN Security Council resolution. The parties that

3161
02:46:04,760 --> 02:46:08,120
Speaker 7: agreed to a two week ceasefire. Trump again shared the

3162
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:10,880
Speaker 7: news of this on Truth's social kind of done reading

3163
02:46:10,879 --> 02:46:12,879
Speaker 7: out trees. I'm going to skip that one. That was

3164
02:46:12,879 --> 02:46:16,480
Speaker 7: a hanging around one. Very Shortly thereafter, Israel began a

3165
02:46:16,520 --> 02:46:20,840
Speaker 7: massive bombing campaign in Lebanon, and Iran continued to launch

3166
02:46:20,879 --> 02:46:24,960
Speaker 7: missiles at the occupied territories. Carolin Leavitt has said that

3167
02:46:25,040 --> 02:46:27,119
Speaker 7: Trump refused the Iranian plan.

3168
02:46:27,600 --> 02:46:30,600
Speaker 20: The Iranians originally put forward a ten point plan that

3169
02:46:30,720 --> 02:46:35,720
Speaker 20: was fundamentally unserious, unacceptable, and completely discarded. It was literally

3170
02:46:35,760 --> 02:46:39,800
Speaker 20: thrown in the garbage by President Trump and his negotiating team.

3171
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:43,200
Speaker 20: Many outlets in this room have falsely reported on that

3172
02:46:43,240 --> 02:46:46,360
Speaker 20: plan as being acceptable to the United States, and that

3173
02:46:46,560 --> 02:46:47,039
Speaker 20: is false.

3174
02:46:48,160 --> 02:46:51,360
Speaker 7: So she was pretty emphatic about that. Trump attacks CNN

3175
02:46:51,560 --> 02:46:55,280
Speaker 7: for publishing the plan this morning. Trump has said that

3176
02:46:55,320 --> 02:46:59,000
Speaker 7: the Israeli attacks on Lebanon were quote a separate skirmish.

3177
02:47:00,200 --> 02:47:03,960
Speaker 7: Striket Lebanon a hundred times in just over ten minutes

3178
02:47:04,040 --> 02:47:07,959
Speaker 7: today they dropped whole tower blocks in Beirut.

3179
02:47:08,480 --> 02:47:09,879
Speaker 3: That that is not a skirmish.

3180
02:47:10,120 --> 02:47:12,560
Speaker 7: Now he said they're not part of the deal because

3181
02:47:12,560 --> 02:47:15,400
Speaker 7: as Buller's not part of the deal. Of course, in it.

3182
02:47:15,560 --> 02:47:20,199
Speaker 7: Ran state media are pushing that they've they have somehow

3183
02:47:20,240 --> 02:47:23,080
Speaker 7: achieved all of their ten points, which I think were

3184
02:47:23,080 --> 02:47:26,480
Speaker 7: their sort of goals for negotiation or a basis for negotiation.

3185
02:47:27,200 --> 02:47:30,280
Speaker 7: Trump has said to one reporter that the tolls on

3186
02:47:30,320 --> 02:47:33,520
Speaker 7: the street could be a joint venture between the United

3187
02:47:33,520 --> 02:47:34,599
Speaker 7: States and Iran.

3188
02:47:34,560 --> 02:47:37,280
Speaker 11: Which suggest there are some parts of this of this

3189
02:47:37,440 --> 02:47:39,920
Speaker 11: deal that that are that are true, that he has

3190
02:47:40,040 --> 02:47:40,959
Speaker 11: kind of agreed.

3191
02:47:40,640 --> 02:47:42,720
Speaker 7: On, that are at least on the table. Right, Like

3192
02:47:42,840 --> 02:47:46,000
Speaker 7: these are the bases, which was how they were initially

3193
02:47:46,080 --> 02:47:48,800
Speaker 7: reported by CNN and others, that these have been accepted

3194
02:47:48,800 --> 02:47:51,800
Speaker 7: as a basis for negotiation. They had not been accepted

3195
02:47:52,320 --> 02:47:56,000
Speaker 7: whole cloth. Some people of some whom I think are

3196
02:47:56,000 --> 02:48:00,280
Speaker 7: acting in bad faith, have said since this more warning.

3197
02:48:00,760 --> 02:48:03,360
Speaker 7: The Wall Street Journal has reported that the tolls will

3198
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:08,080
Speaker 7: be paid in cryptocurrency or Chinese one yeah, and that

3199
02:48:08,200 --> 02:48:11,279
Speaker 7: around it is broadcasting VHF messages. It's very high frequency.

3200
02:48:11,320 --> 02:48:14,959
Speaker 7: It's radio frequency warning non paying ships crossing the straight

3201
02:48:14,959 --> 02:48:17,680
Speaker 7: of home moods that they will be targeted. Trumpet provitly

3202
02:48:17,680 --> 02:48:20,480
Speaker 7: said the straight offor moves is open. This doesn't seem

3203
02:48:20,560 --> 02:48:21,240
Speaker 7: like that.

3204
02:48:21,920 --> 02:48:23,879
Speaker 11: The tolls about like two million, right.

3205
02:48:23,920 --> 02:48:27,080
Speaker 7: Well, there have been various proposals. Some I said two

3206
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:30,160
Speaker 7: million dollars. I've seen different dollar sums per barrel of

3207
02:48:30,240 --> 02:48:33,480
Speaker 7: oil transiting the straight. I guess it would depend if

3208
02:48:33,480 --> 02:48:36,840
Speaker 7: it's if it's if the US Iranian partnership. You know

3209
02:48:36,879 --> 02:48:40,000
Speaker 7: how we're going to account for the exchange rate. Everyone

3210
02:48:40,120 --> 02:48:42,360
Speaker 7: has to get their peace right. Yeah, but yes, the

3211
02:48:42,360 --> 02:48:44,400
Speaker 7: two million dollars number was thrown around a lot.

3212
02:48:44,480 --> 02:48:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's worth noting that the strait is not

3213
02:48:47,200 --> 02:48:49,480
Speaker 3: open now. It is simply not.

3214
02:48:49,800 --> 02:48:53,280
Speaker 2: The number isn't a lesson stopp launching strikes.

3215
02:48:53,600 --> 02:48:55,959
Speaker 7: Well, even if they wanted to open it right now,

3216
02:48:56,400 --> 02:48:58,880
Speaker 7: they would have to remove the mines that they've put

3217
02:48:58,879 --> 02:48:59,120
Speaker 7: in it.

3218
02:48:59,240 --> 02:49:01,440
Speaker 2: Right, We don't know how many minds there are.

3219
02:49:01,520 --> 02:49:03,920
Speaker 3: If there are, so there are still ships going through,

3220
02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:06,640
Speaker 3: there's not many of them, like there's I think it was.

3221
02:49:06,680 --> 02:49:09,680
Speaker 3: The number I saw for today was four. Yeah, yeah,

3222
02:49:09,720 --> 02:49:13,120
Speaker 3: like so like like it is technic, it is possible

3223
02:49:13,160 --> 02:49:17,280
Speaker 3: to go through. But four is like one of the

3224
02:49:17,280 --> 02:49:20,199
Speaker 3: lowest numbers that has happened since the Strait was first closed.

3225
02:49:20,480 --> 02:49:23,640
Speaker 3: So it has has simply not been reopened. Trump says

3226
02:49:23,680 --> 02:49:24,520
Speaker 3: this constantly.

3227
02:49:24,959 --> 02:49:27,560
Speaker 7: It's down to one channel, would be my guess, right, Like,

3228
02:49:27,600 --> 02:49:29,959
Speaker 7: it's because and then that they're advising those ships. I'm

3229
02:49:29,959 --> 02:49:32,560
Speaker 7: guessing we're sending a pilot craft perhaps to go between

3230
02:49:32,600 --> 02:49:33,200
Speaker 7: the mines.

3231
02:49:33,320 --> 02:49:33,560
Speaker 8: Yeah.

3232
02:49:33,600 --> 02:49:37,080
Speaker 3: I haven't seen any reporting on how they're getting them through.

3233
02:49:37,840 --> 02:49:39,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I haven't.

3234
02:49:39,200 --> 02:49:43,920
Speaker 2: The extent to which they've laid minds is really unclear. Yeah,

3235
02:49:44,000 --> 02:49:46,439
Speaker 2: Like all we know is that they have the capacity

3236
02:49:46,480 --> 02:49:48,480
Speaker 2: to do so, in that the US has been striking

3237
02:49:49,040 --> 02:49:51,520
Speaker 2: craft that are set to lay minds. But like, I

3238
02:49:51,560 --> 02:49:53,560
Speaker 2: haven't heard of any evidence of a ship getting hit

3239
02:49:53,600 --> 02:49:54,560
Speaker 2: with the mine yet.

3240
02:49:54,680 --> 02:49:57,400
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, neither of I s Perhaps they haven't.

3241
02:49:57,200 --> 02:49:59,160
Speaker 2: Laid any or we don't know what they've done. They

3242
02:49:59,200 --> 02:50:01,280
Speaker 2: may have decided that that was more of than they

3243
02:50:01,360 --> 02:50:02,520
Speaker 2: needed to do at this point.

3244
02:50:02,800 --> 02:50:03,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3245
02:50:03,560 --> 02:50:05,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so far, all of the attacks on ships

3246
02:50:05,480 --> 02:50:07,959
Speaker 3: have been with other more conventional weapons.

3247
02:50:07,800 --> 02:50:12,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, either sea drones or missiles of various kinds.

3248
02:50:12,480 --> 02:50:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, shooting them with guns in a couple of cases.

3249
02:50:16,400 --> 02:50:20,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Garrison, let's start with this clip of JD.

3250
02:50:20,240 --> 02:50:23,439
Speaker 7: Vance talking about the inclusion of Lebanon in this ceasefire.

3251
02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:26,680
Speaker 21: First of all, I actually think and there's a lot

3252
02:50:26,720 --> 02:50:29,320
Speaker 21: of bad faith negotiation and a lot.

3253
02:50:29,160 --> 02:50:30,080
Speaker 3: Of bad faith.

3254
02:50:30,480 --> 02:50:33,400
Speaker 21: You know, propaganda going on. I think this comes from

3255
02:50:33,440 --> 02:50:37,120
Speaker 21: a legitimate misunderstanding. I think the Iranians thought that the

3256
02:50:37,160 --> 02:50:40,800
Speaker 21: ceasefire included Lebanon, and it just didn't. We never made

3257
02:50:40,800 --> 02:50:42,880
Speaker 21: that promise, We never indicated that was going to be

3258
02:50:42,920 --> 02:50:45,440
Speaker 21: the case. What we said is that the ceasefire would

3259
02:50:45,440 --> 02:50:48,039
Speaker 21: be focused on Iran, and the ceasefire would be focused

3260
02:50:48,080 --> 02:50:51,279
Speaker 21: on America's allies. Both Israel and the Golf are of states.

3261
02:50:51,840 --> 02:50:55,640
Speaker 7: So yeah, let's talk about Israel, right, a country which

3262
02:50:55,680 --> 02:51:00,720
Speaker 7: famously loves to respect a ceasefire. Israel has continued to

3263
02:51:00,760 --> 02:51:07,320
Speaker 7: strike inside Iran. It has not stopped since the announcement

3264
02:51:07,320 --> 02:51:11,080
Speaker 7: of this ceasefire, right, it has shown no indication of

3265
02:51:11,240 --> 02:51:14,400
Speaker 7: wanting to stop. It is also continued, as I said,

3266
02:51:14,520 --> 02:51:19,600
Speaker 7: it's massive bombing campaign side Lebanon. It seems to be

3267
02:51:19,760 --> 02:51:24,600
Speaker 7: the case that whatever was negotiated, the Israelis do not

3268
02:51:24,720 --> 02:51:27,480
Speaker 7: perceive the ceasefire as applying to them, or at least

3269
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:29,360
Speaker 7: the IDF does not, I should say, rather than the

3270
02:51:29,560 --> 02:51:35,280
Speaker 7: ralis right, and therefore Iran does not perceive it as

3271
02:51:35,760 --> 02:51:38,240
Speaker 7: being obliged to no longer strike Israel.

3272
02:51:38,800 --> 02:51:40,600
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, the whole situation right now is very

3273
02:51:40,680 --> 02:51:43,080
Speaker 11: unclear and is literally changing by the hour.

3274
02:51:43,280 --> 02:51:45,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, like by the time we're done recording this.

3275
02:51:45,400 --> 02:51:48,480
Speaker 11: Right, Yeah, so we're recording this Wednesday afternoon. By the

3276
02:51:48,480 --> 02:51:51,920
Speaker 11: time this comes out Thursday night slash Friday morning, there

3277
02:51:51,920 --> 02:51:53,600
Speaker 11: could be a whole different situation.

3278
02:51:54,320 --> 02:51:54,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3279
02:51:54,560 --> 02:51:56,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll try and record a pickup if we have to.

3280
02:51:57,000 --> 02:52:00,119
Speaker 11: But yeah, as of as of Wednesday afternoon, this is

3281
02:52:00,120 --> 02:52:03,879
Speaker 11: what the sort of ambiguity around around the deal looks

3282
02:52:03,959 --> 02:52:07,120
Speaker 11: like and the level of compliance regarding Israel and the

3283
02:52:07,240 --> 02:52:08,120
Speaker 11: United States.

3284
02:52:08,560 --> 02:52:10,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, there are two more things I want to talk

3285
02:52:10,720 --> 02:52:13,000
Speaker 7: about that have been reported on the list. Obviously, this

3286
02:52:13,040 --> 02:52:15,680
Speaker 7: has been reported on widely because it is a threat

3287
02:52:15,800 --> 02:52:17,600
Speaker 7: to all of our lives if we're going to start

3288
02:52:17,600 --> 02:52:21,360
Speaker 7: a nuclear war. The pak is Curtis Down Freedom Party,

3289
02:52:21,840 --> 02:52:24,920
Speaker 7: says it's leaders headquarters. This was interally reported as home.

3290
02:52:25,520 --> 02:52:27,640
Speaker 7: They did send me a text to use the word

3291
02:52:27,760 --> 02:52:31,560
Speaker 7: home WhatsApp, but I think, judging by what I have

3292
02:52:31,600 --> 02:52:34,240
Speaker 7: heard from other reports in a region, it's better described

3293
02:52:34,240 --> 02:52:39,840
Speaker 7: as headquarters. Were struck with several Iranian missiles. This came after,

3294
02:52:39,959 --> 02:52:42,600
Speaker 7: according to Fox News, the President claimed that the United

3295
02:52:42,640 --> 02:52:46,720
Speaker 7: States sent weapons to protesters in Iran in January, but

3296
02:52:46,879 --> 02:52:50,800
Speaker 7: that quote the Kurds kept them. Now, a video of

3297
02:52:50,840 --> 02:52:54,840
Speaker 7: Trump addressing the issue does not explicitly name the Kurds,

3298
02:52:54,879 --> 02:52:57,080
Speaker 7: it does imply that they.

3299
02:52:56,920 --> 02:53:00,200
Speaker 22: Don't have guns. You know, we send some guns the

3300
02:53:00,360 --> 02:53:02,600
Speaker 22: group that was supposed to give which I said, what

3301
02:53:02,800 --> 02:53:04,360
Speaker 22: happened to my people? I said it.

3302
02:53:04,400 --> 02:53:05,480
Speaker 5: I called it exactly.

3303
02:53:06,280 --> 02:53:07,960
Speaker 3: We sent guns, a lot of guns.

3304
02:53:08,280 --> 02:53:10,120
Speaker 22: They were supposed to go to the people said they

3305
02:53:10,120 --> 02:53:12,640
Speaker 22: could fight back against these ducks. You know what happened.

3306
02:53:13,040 --> 02:53:15,879
Speaker 22: The people that they sent them to kept them because

3307
02:53:15,879 --> 02:53:17,200
Speaker 22: they said, what a beautiful gun.

3308
02:53:17,240 --> 02:53:18,119
Speaker 8: I think I'll keep it.

3309
02:53:18,640 --> 02:53:21,280
Speaker 22: So I'm very upset with a certain group of people,

3310
02:53:21,320 --> 02:53:22,840
Speaker 22: and they're going to pay a big price for that.

3311
02:53:23,400 --> 02:53:27,360
Speaker 22: But the Iranian people who will fight back as soon

3312
02:53:27,400 --> 02:53:28,959
Speaker 22: as they know they're not going to be shot and

3313
02:53:29,000 --> 02:53:31,120
Speaker 22: as soon as they can get weapons.

3314
02:53:33,400 --> 02:53:37,119
Speaker 7: This is one of the most seed It's up there

3315
02:53:37,160 --> 02:53:41,600
Speaker 7: with him threatening to new Karam the Easter Bunny, and it's.

3316
02:53:42,160 --> 02:53:45,480
Speaker 11: I hesitate to use the word Lynchian because that work

3317
02:53:45,480 --> 02:53:46,440
Speaker 11: gets misapplied a lot.

3318
02:53:46,480 --> 02:53:51,080
Speaker 7: And Tufa asks him, and this is not a perfect.

3319
02:53:50,720 --> 02:53:55,360
Speaker 11: Invocation of Lynchian either, but it's getting closer with the

3320
02:53:56,120 --> 02:53:57,039
Speaker 11: sort of one of the.

3321
02:53:56,920 --> 02:53:58,960
Speaker 7: More Lynchian things to have pay real life.

3322
02:53:59,120 --> 02:54:02,040
Speaker 11: It's incredible up with like the Easter jazz in the

3323
02:54:02,080 --> 02:54:05,440
Speaker 11: back crash of vibes. Yeah, as there's like flowers over

3324
02:54:05,480 --> 02:54:09,640
Speaker 11: the archway. Yeah, I think half co No, there's sort

3325
02:54:09,640 --> 02:54:11,640
Speaker 11: of the sort of juxtaposition, right, which I think is

3326
02:54:11,640 --> 02:54:14,600
Speaker 11: that is the key part of leedge is like is

3327
02:54:14,600 --> 02:54:18,440
Speaker 11: this surreal with the mundane and you have parts of

3328
02:54:18,480 --> 02:54:20,680
Speaker 11: this here where you have this sort of intensity of

3329
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:23,640
Speaker 11: the stuff Trump's talking about with the Eastern jazz and

3330
02:54:23,680 --> 02:54:27,120
Speaker 11: his like purple tie and the easter like decorations in

3331
02:54:27,160 --> 02:54:31,760
Speaker 11: the background. This is this is a stunning piece of media.

3332
02:54:31,480 --> 02:54:32,720
Speaker 2: Stunning piece of history.

3333
02:54:32,840 --> 02:54:35,720
Speaker 7: God yeah, I saw this yesterday and I thought I

3334
02:54:35,800 --> 02:54:38,480
Speaker 7: need to expose my colleagues to this, like one of

3335
02:54:38,480 --> 02:54:42,039
Speaker 7: the most incredible thirty seconds of video. To come back

3336
02:54:42,040 --> 02:54:45,879
Speaker 7: to topic at hand, various Rogulati groups have denied this,

3337
02:54:46,360 --> 02:54:49,240
Speaker 7: and it would be an extreme logistical challenge to provide

3338
02:54:49,280 --> 02:54:52,720
Speaker 7: weapons to Curdish arm groups, most of whom have most

3339
02:54:52,720 --> 02:54:56,600
Speaker 7: of their personnel in Iraq, and for them to transit

3340
02:54:56,800 --> 02:55:00,880
Speaker 7: those weapons to Tehran. I don't belie believe that that

3341
02:55:01,480 --> 02:55:04,840
Speaker 7: would have been something that any US administration would entertain.

3342
02:55:05,840 --> 02:55:08,960
Speaker 2: What guns would they give them that they don't because

3343
02:55:08,959 --> 02:55:11,720
Speaker 2: if these groups tend to be pretty well supplied with

3344
02:55:11,800 --> 02:55:15,480
Speaker 2: small personal arms we're talking about like your battle rifles

3345
02:55:16,160 --> 02:55:19,560
Speaker 2: and you know, long range precision rifles and the like,

3346
02:55:19,640 --> 02:55:23,280
Speaker 2: what they lack is man portable anti aircraft and man

3347
02:55:23,280 --> 02:55:25,280
Speaker 2: portable anti armor. Those are kind of some of the

3348
02:55:25,280 --> 02:55:28,040
Speaker 2: most precious pieces of gear to them, and I doubt

3349
02:55:28,040 --> 02:55:31,200
Speaker 2: Trump was offering to send that into Iran, among other things.

3350
02:55:31,560 --> 02:55:33,640
Speaker 2: We probably don't want to be sending a bunch of

3351
02:55:33,720 --> 02:55:36,560
Speaker 2: man portable anti aircraft into Iran.

3352
02:55:36,320 --> 02:55:38,920
Speaker 7: Right now, Like that s babfire.

3353
02:55:40,120 --> 02:55:41,840
Speaker 2: But that's the only shit I could see these different

3354
02:55:41,879 --> 02:55:43,920
Speaker 2: groups wanting to take for themselves.

3355
02:55:44,240 --> 02:55:47,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's especially strange because, like I watched a lot

3356
02:55:47,840 --> 02:55:51,440
Speaker 7: of videos of armed attacks on uh, like Iranian police

3357
02:55:51,640 --> 02:55:54,160
Speaker 7: in January of this year, and they were using very

3358
02:55:54,200 --> 02:55:56,680
Speaker 7: basic weapons, to include quite a few of the pak

3359
02:55:56,959 --> 02:55:58,439
Speaker 7: using pumpacked shotguns.

3360
02:55:58,800 --> 02:55:59,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3361
02:55:59,200 --> 02:56:02,199
Speaker 7: I don't think the US sent them pump action shotguns.

3362
02:56:02,280 --> 02:56:04,160
Speaker 2: No, that would be a weird We don't. The US

3363
02:56:04,280 --> 02:56:06,480
Speaker 2: military doesn't have a lot of pump action shot is

3364
02:56:06,560 --> 02:56:08,680
Speaker 2: just laying around. Yeah, that's not like the first gun

3365
02:56:08,720 --> 02:56:10,920
Speaker 2: they'd have a bunch of to hand over to somebody.

3366
02:56:11,040 --> 02:56:12,760
Speaker 2: They've probably got more ak's than that.

3367
02:56:13,120 --> 02:56:15,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like there were ak's used as well, but

3368
02:56:15,160 --> 02:56:16,959
Speaker 7: like these are very basic episodes, as you say, like

3369
02:56:17,360 --> 02:56:19,880
Speaker 7: this doesn't seem like anything that would come from the US.

3370
02:56:20,440 --> 02:56:25,199
Speaker 7: Also in Kurdistan and Iranian drones struck Zagazawi village, killing

3371
02:56:25,320 --> 02:56:29,320
Speaker 7: Musa anwar Rasul, aged thirty nine, and his wife Musta

3372
02:56:29,400 --> 02:56:34,679
Speaker 7: Asad Hassan. Their children both survived. This is really heartbreaking,

3373
02:56:34,879 --> 02:56:38,119
Speaker 7: and like there were really horrible videos of their children,

3374
02:56:38,760 --> 02:56:42,440
Speaker 7: like like confronting the fact that they are now orphans, right,

3375
02:56:42,760 --> 02:56:46,920
Speaker 7: and because of stories like this one, which I do

3376
02:56:47,000 --> 02:56:52,040
Speaker 7: not see any basis for. In fact, Kurdistan is being

3377
02:56:52,160 --> 02:56:56,680
Speaker 7: absolutely hammered by Iranian bonds, right, the little children are

3378
02:56:56,720 --> 02:57:00,360
Speaker 7: losing their parents, and like I'm really dist but just

3379
02:57:00,440 --> 02:57:02,800
Speaker 7: I say, every week by the campus tendency to ignore

3380
02:57:02,840 --> 02:57:05,280
Speaker 7: this or to say that it has to happen because

3381
02:57:05,280 --> 02:57:08,960
Speaker 7: the Kurds don't have a state, or even the sort

3382
02:57:09,000 --> 02:57:13,039
Speaker 7: of blue wave tendency to sort of handwave this and say, well,

3383
02:57:13,080 --> 02:57:16,000
Speaker 7: Donald Trump started the war, so Ryan gets to murder

3384
02:57:16,040 --> 02:57:20,039
Speaker 7: Curtis Villians. Like I just find it so heartbreaking. And

3385
02:57:20,280 --> 02:57:22,000
Speaker 7: Robert and I have both spent time in Kurtis down

3386
02:57:22,080 --> 02:57:23,760
Speaker 7: and a kind of funness sort of people there, but

3387
02:57:24,200 --> 02:57:24,840
Speaker 7: makes me mad.

3388
02:57:25,520 --> 02:57:28,080
Speaker 2: It's all pretty bleak and disappointing.

3389
02:57:28,879 --> 02:57:31,400
Speaker 7: Well, you know what else disappointing. Every week we have

3390
02:57:31,480 --> 02:57:43,240
Speaker 7: to do this. It's an ad break.

3391
02:57:44,560 --> 02:57:47,960
Speaker 11: All right, we're back. We still have three or four

3392
02:57:48,240 --> 02:57:53,800
Speaker 11: important stories that we're gonna do here before we close. James,

3393
02:57:53,840 --> 02:57:57,280
Speaker 11: want to start with your section on the threat to

3394
02:57:57,400 --> 02:57:58,519
Speaker 11: press freedom.

3395
02:57:58,959 --> 02:58:01,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think this is import President Trump has

3396
02:58:01,320 --> 02:58:04,199
Speaker 7: said that his DOJ will seek to prosecute the person

3397
02:58:04,200 --> 02:58:07,920
Speaker 7: who quote leaked the information that the fifteen's weapons safety

3398
02:58:07,959 --> 02:58:11,240
Speaker 7: officer was missing an evading caption in Iran. Quote we're

3399
02:58:11,240 --> 02:58:13,200
Speaker 7: going to go to the media company that released it,

3400
02:58:13,280 --> 02:58:16,440
Speaker 7: or we're going to say national security, give it up,

3401
02:58:17,040 --> 02:58:20,560
Speaker 7: or go to jail, Trump said, quote The entire country

3402
02:58:20,600 --> 02:58:22,640
Speaker 7: of Iran knew that there was a pilot that was

3403
02:58:22,680 --> 02:58:24,840
Speaker 7: somewhere on their land that was fighting for his life.

3404
02:58:25,840 --> 02:58:29,119
Speaker 7: Wasn't pilots, it was a weapons officer, but airmen.

3405
02:58:29,280 --> 02:58:29,440
Speaker 5: Right.

3406
02:58:30,080 --> 02:58:32,760
Speaker 7: I can't quite find who broke the story because it's

3407
02:58:32,800 --> 02:58:37,560
Speaker 7: not really a story that broke. It didn't require anyone

3408
02:58:37,640 --> 02:58:41,320
Speaker 7: to leak anything to know that someone was missing, because

3409
02:58:41,360 --> 02:58:45,560
Speaker 7: the wreckage and without seeing the wreckage. People weren't really

3410
02:58:45,600 --> 02:58:48,240
Speaker 7: willing to publish the story rights they had no confirmation

3411
02:58:48,360 --> 02:58:51,440
Speaker 7: In Iran says wild shit all the time. Yeah, the

3412
02:58:51,600 --> 02:58:55,840
Speaker 7: wreckage was photographed and published by presumably Iranian sources, and

3413
02:58:55,879 --> 02:58:58,039
Speaker 7: it very clearly showed the livery of a US Air

3414
02:58:58,080 --> 02:59:00,960
Speaker 7: Force fifteen based out of late and Heath, which is

3415
02:59:01,000 --> 02:59:04,560
Speaker 7: near Cambridge in the United Kingdom. There were some very

3416
02:59:04,560 --> 02:59:07,080
Speaker 7: early reports before we foll photos that the plane should

3417
02:59:07,080 --> 02:59:09,280
Speaker 7: shut down was an F thirty five and that would

3418
02:59:09,280 --> 02:59:12,640
Speaker 7: have been a single seater, right, But as soon as

3419
02:59:12,640 --> 02:59:14,760
Speaker 7: the images came out, everyone knew that wasn't the case.

3420
02:59:15,560 --> 02:59:16,840
Speaker 2: Was an F fifth Strike Eagle.

3421
02:59:17,000 --> 02:59:20,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, and there are single seat to F fifteen variants,

3422
02:59:20,200 --> 02:59:22,440
Speaker 7: but I don't believe any of them are active. Dut

3423
02:59:22,680 --> 02:59:26,160
Speaker 7: US Air Force Strike Eagles will always have two people.

3424
02:59:27,120 --> 02:59:30,640
Speaker 7: It's not a single seater, right, So nobody had to

3425
02:59:30,720 --> 02:59:33,360
Speaker 7: leak that information for it to be obvious that if

3426
02:59:33,360 --> 02:59:36,640
Speaker 7: they had collected one person, then there was still one person.

3427
02:59:37,480 --> 02:59:40,040
Speaker 7: This does represent quite a serious attack on the First Amendment.

3428
02:59:40,360 --> 02:59:43,600
Speaker 7: People are killing and dying over Irun, and our tax

3429
02:59:43,640 --> 02:59:47,720
Speaker 7: dollars are supporting that have a right to know. Journalism

3430
02:59:47,760 --> 02:59:50,440
Speaker 7: has played a role in the way Americans perceive conflict

3431
02:59:50,480 --> 02:59:52,080
Speaker 7: for a very long time. Right, we can think about

3432
02:59:52,080 --> 02:59:56,160
Speaker 7: the Napalm Girl photo. Understand that photo now has disputed authorship.

3433
02:59:56,720 --> 03:00:00,200
Speaker 7: We can think about well to cronkite Vietnam War, think

3434
03:00:00,240 --> 03:00:03,320
Speaker 7: about I have a great hib There is no federal

3435
03:00:03,360 --> 03:00:06,320
Speaker 7: press shield law, though, and journalists have been held in

3436
03:00:06,320 --> 03:00:09,959
Speaker 7: contempt for refusing to reveal sources on that security issues before.

3437
03:00:10,640 --> 03:00:14,200
Speaker 7: This is a serious threat and it's one that I

3438
03:00:14,200 --> 03:00:15,880
Speaker 7: think everyone should take very seriously.

3439
03:00:16,080 --> 03:00:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3440
03:00:16,400 --> 03:00:19,560
Speaker 11: Well, and it's a very important part of the of

3441
03:00:19,680 --> 03:00:22,600
Speaker 11: the last little section of the Newsroom TV show. There's

3442
03:00:22,640 --> 03:00:26,240
Speaker 11: a whole plot line about death and at shows. Yes, yes, yes, Gareth,

3443
03:00:26,240 --> 03:00:28,320
Speaker 11: they're sure is so I just thought that's worth mentioning.

3444
03:00:28,800 --> 03:00:30,640
Speaker 7: You guys have told me not to watch Size. It'll

3445
03:00:30,640 --> 03:00:32,800
Speaker 7: make me angry, and I've respected that that.

3446
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:35,879
Speaker 2: You should not James Will, you will lose your mind.

3447
03:00:36,600 --> 03:00:37,520
Speaker 2: It's not good for you.

3448
03:00:37,640 --> 03:00:39,520
Speaker 7: There's a lot of stuffs making me angry right now.

3449
03:00:39,560 --> 03:00:40,560
Speaker 7: So I'm going to give that one.

3450
03:00:40,640 --> 03:00:43,480
Speaker 2: Too much sork In at the moment is very quickly

3451
03:00:43,520 --> 03:00:44,320
Speaker 2: becomes toxic.

3452
03:00:44,480 --> 03:00:46,320
Speaker 7: Too much. Sorkin has really fucked up a lot of

3453
03:00:46,360 --> 03:00:47,400
Speaker 7: people in this country.

3454
03:00:47,640 --> 03:00:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of things that will really fuck you up,

3455
03:00:51,360 --> 03:00:59,119
Speaker 2: are beautiful tariff music, right.

3456
03:01:01,560 --> 03:01:05,039
Speaker 8: Locking, locking.

3457
03:01:06,200 --> 03:01:12,080
Speaker 2: Lockingspot Ah, So glad that we're back to talking about tariffs.

3458
03:01:12,320 --> 03:01:16,480
Speaker 3: So okay, if we have a couple of a wrong

3459
03:01:16,560 --> 03:01:20,680
Speaker 3: related tariff things, Garrett, are we playing the nightmare clip?

3460
03:01:20,760 --> 03:01:22,120
Speaker 11: We have to play the nightmare clip.

3461
03:01:22,120 --> 03:01:26,280
Speaker 3: We're playing the nightmare clip? Okay, this is okay. When

3462
03:01:26,360 --> 03:01:29,840
Speaker 3: when inevitably, in the course of humanity they have to

3463
03:01:29,959 --> 03:01:34,760
Speaker 3: make a museum to explain to people what capitalism was,

3464
03:01:35,280 --> 03:01:36,960
Speaker 3: this is what they are going to show.

3465
03:01:37,879 --> 03:01:44,400
Speaker 11: This is a clip from the quote unquote news agency CNBC.

3466
03:01:43,879 --> 03:01:47,279
Speaker 14: Deadline that President Trump has sat a PM has threatened

3467
03:01:47,280 --> 03:01:48,519
Speaker 14: to destroy a civilization.

3468
03:01:50,520 --> 03:01:52,800
Speaker 7: How how does how does an investor process that?

3469
03:01:52,959 --> 03:01:53,160
Speaker 3: Is it?

3470
03:01:53,240 --> 03:01:55,160
Speaker 6: Is it a bigger upside risk or downside risk?

3471
03:01:58,720 --> 03:02:02,640
Speaker 2: Big upside risk, onside risk to genocide?

3472
03:02:02,879 --> 03:02:05,680
Speaker 7: She kind of looks up and then just goes right in.

3473
03:02:06,240 --> 03:02:10,720
Speaker 3: Like when when they have to like explain to people, right,

3474
03:02:11,120 --> 03:02:16,440
Speaker 3: like how how eight billion people were like consumed into

3475
03:02:16,480 --> 03:02:19,440
Speaker 3: these like roles that they were forced to inhabit by

3476
03:02:19,440 --> 03:02:22,760
Speaker 3: the machinations of capital. This is gonna be the one.

3477
03:02:24,000 --> 03:02:28,640
Speaker 11: Oh god, it turns out, uh, the markets responded very

3478
03:02:28,680 --> 03:02:31,640
Speaker 11: positively to Trump's threats to destroy a civilization.

3479
03:02:32,360 --> 03:02:35,600
Speaker 3: It's I, you know, what if what if we didn't

3480
03:02:35,600 --> 03:02:38,480
Speaker 3: have market? What if what if there wasn't a line?

3481
03:02:39,240 --> 03:02:46,640
Speaker 3: I oh god, okay, so speaking of bad things, I

3482
03:02:46,680 --> 03:02:52,160
Speaker 3: guess so. On Wednesday, Trump posted on truth Social quote

3483
03:02:52,760 --> 03:02:58,320
Speaker 3: a country capital CE country supplying capital M military weapons

3484
03:02:58,800 --> 03:03:02,000
Speaker 3: to Iran will be in immediately tarriffed on any and

3485
03:03:02,080 --> 03:03:04,840
Speaker 3: all goods sold to the United States of America fifty

3486
03:03:04,879 --> 03:03:09,000
Speaker 3: percent effective immediately. There will be no exclusions or exemptions.

3487
03:03:09,760 --> 03:03:14,600
Speaker 3: So can he do this? Yes? Key nined Listeners may

3488
03:03:14,640 --> 03:03:17,320
Speaker 3: remember that the legal authority he was claiming to have

3489
03:03:17,360 --> 03:03:20,879
Speaker 3: to do this the Supreme Court made go away, So

3490
03:03:21,600 --> 03:03:25,920
Speaker 3: can you do this? Look okay. The way he's describing

3491
03:03:26,000 --> 03:03:31,080
Speaker 3: this right sounds like he's using trade authority. It may

3492
03:03:31,160 --> 03:03:34,879
Speaker 3: be that buried somewhere deep in the annals of like

3493
03:03:35,040 --> 03:03:39,560
Speaker 3: sanction policy or some shit. Maybe there's something I went

3494
03:03:39,640 --> 03:03:41,960
Speaker 3: through all of the trade authority that I know of

3495
03:03:43,120 --> 03:03:46,560
Speaker 3: to try to find any legal authority for this. The

3496
03:03:46,600 --> 03:03:50,600
Speaker 3: short version is there isn't. The long version is okay,

3497
03:03:50,680 --> 03:03:53,959
Speaker 3: So I guess in theory, maybe if you squint right,

3498
03:03:54,040 --> 03:03:56,360
Speaker 3: you could use Session three oh one of the nineteen

3499
03:03:56,360 --> 03:03:59,240
Speaker 3: seventy four Trade Act, but that's supposed to be a

3500
03:03:59,320 --> 03:04:06,000
Speaker 3: national security risk from unfair trade practices. So it could

3501
03:04:06,000 --> 03:04:08,080
Speaker 3: technically work. But the thing is you also have to

3502
03:04:08,560 --> 03:04:11,040
Speaker 3: that specific one. We've talked about this on the show before.

3503
03:04:11,520 --> 03:04:12,920
Speaker 3: You have to like set up a commission and do

3504
03:04:12,959 --> 03:04:15,160
Speaker 3: a trade study, and there's like all the stuff, so

3505
03:04:15,200 --> 03:04:16,320
Speaker 3: it can't work immediately.

3506
03:04:16,840 --> 03:04:18,720
Speaker 11: No, and Trump doesn't seem like a big set up

3507
03:04:18,879 --> 03:04:19,959
Speaker 11: a commission guy.

3508
03:04:20,640 --> 03:04:22,360
Speaker 3: I mean, well, thing is that they actually have done

3509
03:04:22,400 --> 03:04:25,959
Speaker 3: this for China already. But I don't know if you

3510
03:04:26,040 --> 03:04:29,640
Speaker 3: squint like really hard, like like if you like really

3511
03:04:30,040 --> 03:04:35,720
Speaker 3: really squint at like section two thirty two, like maybe

3512
03:04:35,840 --> 03:04:41,720
Speaker 3: in theory, like but like no, like if you're really

3513
03:04:41,720 --> 03:04:45,880
Speaker 3: willing to believe that, like the president has the ability

3514
03:04:45,959 --> 03:04:48,840
Speaker 3: to be like this is what the law says, then

3515
03:04:49,200 --> 03:04:51,920
Speaker 3: maybe the only way I can see this working is

3516
03:04:51,920 --> 03:04:54,240
Speaker 3: if he invokes section three thirty eight, which is the

3517
03:04:54,600 --> 03:04:57,680
Speaker 3: this is like the remaining part of the Smoot Holly tariffs.

3518
03:04:57,800 --> 03:04:59,680
Speaker 7: Now fantasy good sme.

3519
03:05:00,280 --> 03:05:02,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like, okay, there is a small chance that,

3520
03:05:02,680 --> 03:05:05,760
Speaker 3: like you, the listeners may have heard of the Smoot

3521
03:05:05,800 --> 03:05:07,880
Speaker 3: Holly tariffs, and that's because it's the one that made

3522
03:05:07,879 --> 03:05:11,160
Speaker 3: the Great Depression worse. Yep, and no one's ever used

3523
03:05:11,160 --> 03:05:13,240
Speaker 3: them since it's not even clear if they're on the

3524
03:05:13,240 --> 03:05:17,840
Speaker 3: books anymore, because like this is a legitimate thing of

3525
03:05:17,879 --> 03:05:20,320
Speaker 3: academic discussions like whether these are even still in effect

3526
03:05:20,320 --> 03:05:23,560
Speaker 3: because they haven't been used, they're technically still there, but

3527
03:05:23,879 --> 03:05:29,080
Speaker 3: also no one has like ever used them. And also

3528
03:05:29,120 --> 03:05:34,720
Speaker 3: there's been like subsequent laws regulating trade. So I don't know,

3529
03:05:34,840 --> 03:05:37,320
Speaker 3: there's no way he can do this legally that wouldn't

3530
03:05:37,320 --> 03:05:40,520
Speaker 3: immediately fall apart. It wouldn't fall apart eventually to a

3531
03:05:40,560 --> 03:05:46,160
Speaker 3: court challenge except maybe the like Smoot Holly like nuclear

3532
03:05:46,200 --> 03:05:51,000
Speaker 3: bomb desperation thing. I don't know. It's very unclear to

3533
03:05:51,040 --> 03:05:53,640
Speaker 3: me whether any of this is ever even going to

3534
03:05:53,640 --> 03:05:56,680
Speaker 3: be attempted to be implemented. He shouldn't be able to

3535
03:05:56,680 --> 03:06:00,560
Speaker 3: do this. It's just calvin ball bullshit. But who knows?

3536
03:06:01,240 --> 03:06:03,680
Speaker 7: It would be China era pajamas what he's going for there?

3537
03:06:03,720 --> 03:06:05,320
Speaker 7: Right in China's so weapons to Ryan.

3538
03:06:05,600 --> 03:06:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like there's also a lot of speculation, like

3539
03:06:09,440 --> 03:06:11,400
Speaker 3: I think Reuters reported this that this might be a

3540
03:06:11,440 --> 03:06:13,760
Speaker 3: thing because there's going to be a trade summit with Beijing,

3541
03:06:14,480 --> 03:06:18,840
Speaker 3: but if you're a trade person in Beijing, you also

3542
03:06:18,959 --> 03:06:22,280
Speaker 3: know that he can't do this, so it's not real leverage.

3543
03:06:23,440 --> 03:06:29,879
Speaker 3: I don't know, nightmare. Let's talk about some relatively fun

3544
03:06:30,040 --> 03:06:32,400
Speaker 3: I guess news back at home.

3545
03:06:33,040 --> 03:06:33,959
Speaker 11: Interesting certainly.

3546
03:06:34,360 --> 03:06:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. So one of the things that happened this week

3547
03:06:36,680 --> 03:06:38,840
Speaker 3: was there was a series of elections and the result

3548
03:06:38,879 --> 03:06:42,240
Speaker 3: of those elections was the Republicans got absolutely hammered, like

3549
03:06:42,360 --> 03:06:44,360
Speaker 3: all up and down the ballot in Wisconsin. They did.

3550
03:06:44,760 --> 03:06:48,840
Speaker 3: They performed terribly in Georgia. So the big Democratic win

3551
03:06:49,920 --> 03:06:52,560
Speaker 3: was in Wisconsin. So polls had Chris Taylor, who was

3552
03:06:52,600 --> 03:06:56,360
Speaker 3: the Democratic candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court, up by

3553
03:06:56,360 --> 03:07:00,000
Speaker 3: about seven or eight percent. Chris Taylor won this election

3554
03:07:00,280 --> 03:07:04,400
Speaker 3: by twenty oh wow. Yeah. There was also a full

3555
03:07:04,480 --> 03:07:09,320
Speaker 3: sweep of the whole like Moms for Liberty school board

3556
03:07:09,520 --> 03:07:14,320
Speaker 3: slates in a bunch of elections in very conservative Wakeisha County.

3557
03:07:15,000 --> 03:07:17,000
Speaker 3: The specific one where every single one of them lost

3558
03:07:17,040 --> 03:07:19,879
Speaker 3: and they've fully cleared out all of the monster liberty

3559
03:07:19,879 --> 03:07:22,120
Speaker 3: people was a very specifical one that was famous for

3560
03:07:22,160 --> 03:07:24,000
Speaker 3: doing a whole bunch of these right wing book bands

3561
03:07:24,600 --> 03:07:28,120
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and they're they're all gone. And

3562
03:07:28,160 --> 03:07:29,840
Speaker 3: this is this is, you know, a continuation of a

3563
03:07:29,879 --> 03:07:33,000
Speaker 3: trend that we've seen over the past couple of years

3564
03:07:33,080 --> 03:07:35,520
Speaker 3: really were like year year and a half where all

3565
03:07:35,520 --> 03:07:39,680
Speaker 3: of these weird monster liberty widers just get clobbered. Now,

3566
03:07:40,040 --> 03:07:44,240
Speaker 3: also in that same county, in the actual like mayoral

3567
03:07:44,360 --> 03:07:48,279
Speaker 3: election of Wakisha, like the city of Waksha, the Democrats

3568
03:07:48,560 --> 03:07:50,520
Speaker 3: won that election, which they haven't done in ages.

3569
03:07:51,120 --> 03:07:53,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, this is like one of their biggest Republican like

3570
03:07:54,879 --> 03:07:57,720
Speaker 11: stronghold victories, and like they will always win this seat.

3571
03:07:57,959 --> 03:07:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and this is something that like everyone

3572
03:07:59,640 --> 03:08:01,720
Speaker 3: from wast also we're talking about, which is if they

3573
03:08:01,800 --> 03:08:05,680
Speaker 3: can't win here, they can't win Wisconsin at all. Yeah,

3574
03:08:05,720 --> 03:08:08,080
Speaker 3: there's there's no way, right. And again, like you know,

3575
03:08:08,080 --> 03:08:09,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get into this more in a second, but

3576
03:08:09,879 --> 03:08:12,520
Speaker 3: like the Democrats were projected to win this seat and

3577
03:08:12,840 --> 03:08:16,120
Speaker 3: this is obviously a by election, and this this is

3578
03:08:16,160 --> 03:08:18,200
Speaker 3: this the Supreme Court seat that they won is like

3579
03:08:18,520 --> 03:08:20,480
Speaker 3: them getting to five two. So it wasn't like the

3580
03:08:20,520 --> 03:08:23,200
Speaker 3: majority seat in the way that the last one of

3581
03:08:23,200 --> 03:08:27,080
Speaker 3: these elections were. But they were projected to win by

3582
03:08:27,680 --> 03:08:31,320
Speaker 3: like seven and they won by twenty. Yeah. Yeah, that's

3583
03:08:31,360 --> 03:08:31,800
Speaker 3: that's big.

3584
03:08:32,000 --> 03:08:32,200
Speaker 11: Wow.

3585
03:08:32,200 --> 03:08:34,680
Speaker 3: Which is astonishing part.

3586
03:08:34,480 --> 03:08:37,480
Speaker 2: Of Again you mentioned the a bunch of these, like

3587
03:08:37,520 --> 03:08:41,000
Speaker 2: school board elections in Wisconsin. It's not just Wisconsin, I

3588
03:08:41,000 --> 03:08:43,560
Speaker 2: mean in a lot of the most conservative tarot to

3589
03:08:43,760 --> 03:08:46,440
Speaker 2: the most conservative counties in Texas. Over the last like year,

3590
03:08:47,040 --> 03:08:49,680
Speaker 2: basically every school district that was taken by the Moms

3591
03:08:49,720 --> 03:08:53,600
Speaker 2: for Liberty types has been completely like they have been

3592
03:08:53,640 --> 03:08:56,480
Speaker 2: completely thrown out. And that has been happening around the country.

3593
03:08:56,959 --> 03:08:59,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot that people are focusing on when looking

3594
03:08:59,040 --> 03:09:02,680
Speaker 2: at like why are numbers so fucking dogshit for Republicans

3595
03:09:02,720 --> 03:09:04,520
Speaker 2: White night right now? Why are they getting beaten by

3596
03:09:04,520 --> 03:09:07,560
Speaker 2: such wide margins? And it's certainly way more than one

3597
03:09:07,680 --> 03:09:10,720
Speaker 2: thing is responsible. But I think something that has not

3598
03:09:10,720 --> 03:09:14,560
Speaker 2: gotten enough attention that has been dooming them Republicans electorally

3599
03:09:15,000 --> 03:09:17,760
Speaker 2: is that they got what they wanted in the branch

3600
03:09:17,800 --> 03:09:20,400
Speaker 2: of the chunk of our government. That is hardest to

3601
03:09:20,480 --> 03:09:23,400
Speaker 2: ignore for the average American, which is like what's happening

3602
03:09:23,400 --> 03:09:26,279
Speaker 2: to their kids in schools, And a bunch of regular

3603
03:09:26,320 --> 03:09:28,920
Speaker 2: people who were not all that political saw that, like

3604
03:09:29,000 --> 03:09:31,360
Speaker 2: my kid can't like check books out any the fuck

3605
03:09:31,440 --> 03:09:32,480
Speaker 2: is happening here?

3606
03:09:32,800 --> 03:09:34,400
Speaker 3: And they went crazy.

3607
03:09:34,280 --> 03:09:37,760
Speaker 2: They not crazy, They got really pissed off, rightfully, so,

3608
03:09:37,840 --> 03:09:39,800
Speaker 2: and I think this is going My hope is that

3609
03:09:39,840 --> 03:09:43,480
Speaker 2: this turns out to be one of their worst strategic

3610
03:09:43,600 --> 03:09:46,280
Speaker 2: missteps in this period of time, is their belief that

3611
03:09:46,480 --> 03:09:49,720
Speaker 2: we can just go fucking ape shit on schools and

3612
03:09:49,760 --> 03:09:50,400
Speaker 2: no one will care.

3613
03:09:50,840 --> 03:09:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and this brings me back to something I've

3614
03:09:54,240 --> 03:09:57,200
Speaker 3: been talking about for a while, which is that, so, like,

3615
03:09:57,600 --> 03:09:59,560
Speaker 3: what of the other results that we're sort of looking

3616
03:09:59,600 --> 03:10:02,520
Speaker 3: at here. So, there was an election in Georgia in

3617
03:10:02,560 --> 03:10:04,920
Speaker 3: this like as a Stev's special election for the seat

3618
03:10:04,959 --> 03:10:07,400
Speaker 3: that was Mergory Taylor Green's old district. This is like

3619
03:10:08,200 --> 03:10:11,039
Speaker 3: one of the most unhinged Republican districts in the entire country.

3620
03:10:11,080 --> 03:10:14,320
Speaker 3: Trump won it by forty and the Republican Clay Fuller,

3621
03:10:14,400 --> 03:10:17,199
Speaker 3: did win, but he only he won by twelve points

3622
03:10:18,280 --> 03:10:21,240
Speaker 3: in a county that Trump carried by forty. Yeah. Yeah,

3623
03:10:21,400 --> 03:10:23,360
Speaker 3: that's like it's like it's like a twenty eight point shit.

3624
03:10:23,520 --> 03:10:28,080
Speaker 3: Yeah right, it's it's unbelievable. Now, obviously they didn't win here,

3625
03:10:28,160 --> 03:10:30,600
Speaker 3: but there's been a lot of stuff about how, okay,

3626
03:10:30,640 --> 03:10:33,760
Speaker 3: well this is just because democrats. Democrats do better among

3627
03:10:33,800 --> 03:10:35,920
Speaker 3: high information voters. Those are the people who vote in

3628
03:10:35,959 --> 03:10:38,560
Speaker 3: these off cycle elections that aren't during the normal election cycle.

3629
03:10:38,959 --> 03:10:41,040
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. There's a lot of this kind of stuff.

3630
03:10:41,440 --> 03:10:43,600
Speaker 3: That's a kind of stuff that puts you ahead, as

3631
03:10:43,640 --> 03:10:46,440
Speaker 3: as the polls were showing in Wisconsin, that puts you

3632
03:10:46,480 --> 03:10:49,400
Speaker 3: ahead by like seven That does not explain a thirteen

3633
03:10:49,520 --> 03:10:53,200
Speaker 3: percent over performance. Yeah, yeah, right. And I think what

3634
03:10:53,280 --> 03:10:55,200
Speaker 3: is happening here is something I've said consistently, and this

3635
03:10:55,240 --> 03:10:57,840
Speaker 3: is something that I think Robert is sort of explaining

3636
03:10:57,879 --> 03:11:00,400
Speaker 3: why this is happening, is that polars are still using

3637
03:11:01,000 --> 03:11:04,520
Speaker 3: they're still using as as their basis for what they

3638
03:11:04,560 --> 03:11:06,920
Speaker 3: assume the electure is going to be. They're using the

3639
03:11:07,000 --> 03:11:09,279
Speaker 3: data from the electorate from the twenty twenty four election,

3640
03:11:09,800 --> 03:11:12,600
Speaker 3: because that's that's the standard practice, right, you use as

3641
03:11:12,640 --> 03:11:15,439
Speaker 3: a sample, you know, and you make some like adjustments

3642
03:11:15,480 --> 03:11:16,959
Speaker 3: because it's a by election and stuff like that. But

3643
03:11:17,040 --> 03:11:19,720
Speaker 3: like they're using as as a sample base of voters

3644
03:11:19,800 --> 03:11:22,440
Speaker 3: the people from twenty twenty four, and that electorate does

3645
03:11:22,480 --> 03:11:25,560
Speaker 3: not exist anymore because it's been completely destroyed. Right, all

3646
03:11:25,560 --> 03:11:27,600
Speaker 3: of these people have suddenly been mobilized, Like the whole

3647
03:11:27,600 --> 03:11:31,920
Speaker 3: city of Minneapolis has been like turned into this like weird.

3648
03:11:32,240 --> 03:11:34,240
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean that's not negative. It's like

3649
03:11:34,440 --> 03:11:36,560
Speaker 3: there's like Minneapolis has had a level of mobilization that

3650
03:11:36,640 --> 03:11:40,120
Speaker 3: is like possibly has never been seen before in US history.

3651
03:11:40,640 --> 03:11:44,640
Speaker 3: All of these like people who had been you know,

3652
03:11:44,760 --> 03:11:46,760
Speaker 3: just like not political at all. And this is the

3653
03:11:46,760 --> 03:11:48,200
Speaker 3: other thing with like the school board election, is that

3654
03:11:48,200 --> 03:11:51,160
Speaker 3: these are mostly people who were not political people at all,

3655
03:11:51,200 --> 03:11:53,520
Speaker 3: who just swept in because they like their school's got

3656
03:11:53,520 --> 03:11:56,400
Speaker 3: fucked with. The entire electorate has changed.

3657
03:11:56,560 --> 03:11:58,440
Speaker 11: It's just there's like a deep fluidity here. Right, There's

3658
03:11:58,440 --> 03:12:01,240
Speaker 11: a lot of people who supported Trump because of economic

3659
03:12:01,240 --> 03:12:05,360
Speaker 11: conditions which were blamed on the Democrats, and they moved

3660
03:12:05,360 --> 03:12:07,640
Speaker 11: for Trump, and there was a lot of these same

3661
03:12:07,680 --> 03:12:11,200
Speaker 11: people are not like Trump or Republican loyalists. They're they're

3662
03:12:11,200 --> 03:12:14,200
Speaker 11: reacting to the economic conditions and the messaging from each party.

3663
03:12:14,920 --> 03:12:17,360
Speaker 11: And this is reflected in you know, the number of

3664
03:12:17,400 --> 03:12:19,760
Speaker 11: Trump's Zorn voters, even the number of people who vote

3665
03:12:19,800 --> 03:12:21,800
Speaker 11: Trump and AOC in New York.

3666
03:12:21,920 --> 03:12:22,080
Speaker 4: Right.

3667
03:12:22,280 --> 03:12:25,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, they're not like mega loyalists, right, But but it's

3668
03:12:25,280 --> 03:12:28,440
Speaker 11: showing how there is a big fluidity among among the

3669
03:12:28,440 --> 03:12:30,440
Speaker 11: types of people that do decide elections.

3670
03:12:31,000 --> 03:12:33,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but then there's all. There's also and this is

3671
03:12:33,240 --> 03:12:35,480
Speaker 3: I think the the other side of this too, right,

3672
03:12:35,959 --> 03:12:39,280
Speaker 3: is that there's once people who haven't voted, just didn't

3673
03:12:39,280 --> 03:12:41,600
Speaker 3: give a shit at all, and those people are suddenly

3674
03:12:41,640 --> 03:12:44,360
Speaker 3: being mobilized, and this is turning into like the Democrats

3675
03:12:44,400 --> 03:12:46,800
Speaker 3: are like winning a whole bunch of like rural counties

3676
03:12:47,080 --> 03:12:50,240
Speaker 3: in these elections. Right, yeah, yeah, And now I think

3677
03:12:50,280 --> 03:12:52,040
Speaker 3: the last thing I want to talk about in sort

3678
03:12:52,040 --> 03:12:55,480
Speaker 3: of this kind of section of everybody hates the Republicans

3679
03:12:55,680 --> 03:12:59,440
Speaker 3: is that the issues in Insights CPP survey for April

3680
03:12:59,480 --> 03:13:03,199
Speaker 3: shows Trump with a thirty nine percent approval rating. This poll,

3681
03:13:03,360 --> 03:13:07,360
Speaker 3: which is done a bunch of times every year, they

3682
03:13:07,400 --> 03:13:09,240
Speaker 3: give they give like a bunch of topics where they

3683
03:13:09,240 --> 03:13:11,840
Speaker 3: give a through F rankings from like immigration, to the

3684
03:13:11,879 --> 03:13:15,280
Speaker 3: economy to like the wars in Iran Ukraine and like

3685
03:13:15,280 --> 03:13:18,119
Speaker 3: a plarality of the votes were an F on every single.

3686
03:13:17,840 --> 03:13:19,400
Speaker 11: One, even immigration.

3687
03:13:19,800 --> 03:13:22,600
Speaker 3: Immigration was the one that was kind of close, okay,

3688
03:13:22,600 --> 03:13:25,520
Speaker 3: between that and like a every single other one was

3689
03:13:25,720 --> 03:13:31,000
Speaker 3: down double digits. Okay. If you look at like CDF

3690
03:13:31,280 --> 03:13:33,960
Speaker 3: versus like AB or if you like ignore c right,

3691
03:13:33,959 --> 03:13:36,640
Speaker 3: it's so much more in the category of like d's

3692
03:13:36,680 --> 03:13:37,320
Speaker 3: and f's.

3693
03:13:37,360 --> 03:13:38,680
Speaker 11: On the negative side in general.

3694
03:13:38,760 --> 03:13:42,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, like this is for every single issue. I'm

3695
03:13:42,840 --> 03:13:45,200
Speaker 7: guessing it's kind of a binary distribution, right, like a

3696
03:13:45,200 --> 03:13:47,080
Speaker 7: lot of a's or a lot of f's and not much.

3697
03:13:47,320 --> 03:13:50,720
Speaker 3: There's actually a surprising number of b's, but that's interesting. Yeah,

3698
03:13:51,000 --> 03:13:53,840
Speaker 3: and like a decent number of d's. But yeah, it

3699
03:13:53,879 --> 03:13:55,960
Speaker 3: was like mostly f's and then everything else is kind

3700
03:13:55,959 --> 03:13:58,200
Speaker 3: of spread up between other ones. I mean, all of

3701
03:13:58,200 --> 03:14:01,039
Speaker 3: this is before the like I'm a civil stationable die tonight.

3702
03:14:00,879 --> 03:14:05,600
Speaker 11: Stuff, which which did cause negative reactions from people in

3703
03:14:06,200 --> 03:14:09,720
Speaker 11: the in the conservative base. Yeah, and people voting in

3704
03:14:09,800 --> 03:14:13,640
Speaker 11: Georgia and and Wisconsin. I want to play this clip here.

3705
03:14:14,160 --> 03:14:18,360
Speaker 11: This was a clip from from from Georgia of a

3706
03:14:18,400 --> 03:14:24,080
Speaker 11: Georgia voter who was interviewed on election day.

3707
03:14:25,160 --> 03:14:30,560
Speaker 10: It's giving war crime. You can't do that. We don't

3708
03:14:30,959 --> 03:14:35,520
Speaker 10: just annihilate people because we can and you know, make

3709
03:14:35,560 --> 03:14:38,600
Speaker 10: a grab for the money and the old and that's

3710
03:14:38,640 --> 03:14:41,680
Speaker 10: what we've done in Venezuela, and that's what we're doing

3711
03:14:41,720 --> 03:14:42,320
Speaker 10: in Orion.

3712
03:14:42,760 --> 03:14:44,039
Speaker 2: It's giving war crime.

3713
03:14:44,200 --> 03:14:45,520
Speaker 11: It's giving war crime.

3714
03:14:45,760 --> 03:14:46,400
Speaker 2: I need to take it.

3715
03:14:46,720 --> 03:14:49,199
Speaker 11: This is this is it's beautiful positive.

3716
03:14:49,280 --> 03:14:52,520
Speaker 7: Yes, that's message and the Democrats to come up with

3717
03:14:52,600 --> 03:14:54,320
Speaker 7: on this.

3718
03:14:54,320 --> 03:14:55,680
Speaker 11: This is this is like a well then in her

3719
03:14:55,720 --> 03:15:00,600
Speaker 11: thirties or forties holding holding a kid at nine. This

3720
03:15:00,760 --> 03:15:03,520
Speaker 11: broadcast was at nine thirty three am in Rome, Georgia,

3721
03:15:03,600 --> 03:15:07,640
Speaker 11: on election day. Yep, it is it's giving war crime.

3722
03:15:08,400 --> 03:15:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, if you look at that, like

3723
03:15:10,200 --> 03:15:13,000
Speaker 3: the yug of Economist poll, which is from like April first,

3724
03:15:13,840 --> 03:15:16,400
Speaker 3: but like even at April first, he had just an

3725
03:15:16,480 --> 03:15:20,680
Speaker 3: atrocious thirty five percent approval rating, which is that's like

3726
03:15:20,800 --> 03:15:24,440
Speaker 3: that's like end of the Bush administration shit. All of this.

3727
03:15:24,560 --> 03:15:27,879
Speaker 3: The important part of this is that like the Democrats

3728
03:15:27,920 --> 03:15:30,720
Speaker 3: are still really historically unpopular right now because everyone's piss

3729
03:15:30,720 --> 03:15:33,720
Speaker 3: at them for not doing anything, but the actual mass

3730
03:15:33,760 --> 03:15:36,480
Speaker 3: of people in this country fucking hate all of this.

3731
03:15:36,480 --> 03:15:39,880
Speaker 3: They're pissed off at everything that is happening. Everything you

3732
03:15:39,920 --> 03:15:42,520
Speaker 3: ask about that Trump is doing they are fucking angry about.

3733
03:15:43,160 --> 03:15:46,039
Speaker 3: And you know, this is this is this is the

3734
03:15:46,160 --> 03:15:48,879
Speaker 3: kind of anger and the kind of just generalized rays

3735
03:15:48,920 --> 03:15:53,600
Speaker 3: that I think there's no really good way to measure

3736
03:15:53,760 --> 03:15:57,800
Speaker 3: outside of the tools that we've developed for elections, or

3737
03:15:57,840 --> 03:15:59,600
Speaker 3: in terms of just like you know, sometimes you get

3738
03:15:59,600 --> 03:16:04,720
Speaker 3: treatments like this anger like is the defining thing of

3739
03:16:04,760 --> 03:16:07,680
Speaker 3: the United States right now. So everybody's hissed the fuck

3740
03:16:07,720 --> 03:16:11,640
Speaker 3: off about this, and yeah, and every opportunity they get

3741
03:16:11,640 --> 03:16:15,040
Speaker 3: to express that this shit fucking sucks, they do. This

3742
03:16:15,080 --> 03:16:18,400
Speaker 3: is what American politics is, even as everything is unbelievably

3743
03:16:18,440 --> 03:16:21,080
Speaker 3: hideously bleak from all of the shit that people are doing.

3744
03:16:22,160 --> 03:16:24,440
Speaker 11: Speaking of people who are pissed off, there's one final

3745
03:16:24,480 --> 03:16:26,560
Speaker 11: story that I'll go through pretty quick before we close

3746
03:16:26,680 --> 03:16:31,240
Speaker 11: this episode. Last Wednesday, to celebrate April Fool's Day, Trump

3747
03:16:31,320 --> 03:16:35,520
Speaker 11: fired Pam Bondi as Attorney General. Trump told Bondi about

3748
03:16:35,560 --> 03:16:37,840
Speaker 11: his plan to fire her while in the car together

3749
03:16:38,040 --> 03:16:42,400
Speaker 11: to watch the Supreme Court oral arguments on birthright citizenship.

3750
03:16:42,560 --> 03:16:46,520
Speaker 2: Why Jesus, there's video of it. There's video of it.

3751
03:16:46,520 --> 03:16:50,480
Speaker 2: It's amazing, like credit to Fox, but they got a

3752
03:16:50,560 --> 03:16:52,920
Speaker 2: shot of them in the limo and Trump is clearly

3753
03:16:53,000 --> 03:16:55,560
Speaker 2: telling her, and it's when we know he was telling her.

3754
03:16:55,640 --> 03:16:59,039
Speaker 2: It's an amazing little artifact. All you can make out

3755
03:16:59,160 --> 03:17:01,600
Speaker 2: is their faces kind of and their body language. But

3756
03:17:01,640 --> 03:17:03,200
Speaker 2: it rips it's so funny.

3757
03:17:03,640 --> 03:17:05,920
Speaker 11: Bondi tried to convince Trump to let her stay on

3758
03:17:06,080 --> 03:17:09,800
Speaker 11: till at least summer, but to no avail. Trump appointed

3759
03:17:09,879 --> 03:17:13,200
Speaker 11: Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche to serve as acting Attorney

3760
03:17:13,240 --> 03:17:18,119
Speaker 11: General until the President nominates a full replacement. On Tuesday,

3761
03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:22,600
Speaker 11: Blanche said, quote nobody has any idea unquote why Bondi

3762
03:17:22,760 --> 03:17:25,960
Speaker 11: was fired except for President Trump. Those sources close to

3763
03:17:25,959 --> 03:17:28,440
Speaker 11: the White House have told multiple outlets that Trump had

3764
03:17:28,440 --> 03:17:32,200
Speaker 11: a growing frustration with Bondi for a while, especially related

3765
03:17:32,200 --> 03:17:35,880
Speaker 11: to her failure to successfully prosecute certain political enemies and

3766
03:17:35,959 --> 03:17:39,160
Speaker 11: the fallout from her handling of the Epstein files. Environmental

3767
03:17:39,160 --> 03:17:43,240
Speaker 11: Protection Agency Administrator Lee Zelden has been floated as a

3768
03:17:43,280 --> 03:17:47,520
Speaker 11: prospective replacement for Attorney General. At the EPA, Zelden has

3769
03:17:47,600 --> 03:17:50,560
Speaker 11: led efforts to roll back environmental regulations and climate protections

3770
03:17:51,120 --> 03:17:56,560
Speaker 11: related to in endangered species, wetlands, and emissions before working

3771
03:17:56,600 --> 03:17:59,480
Speaker 11: in the second Trump administration. Zelden lost the race for

3772
03:17:59,560 --> 03:18:02,840
Speaker 11: New York governor to Kathy Hochel by seven percentage points,

3773
03:18:03,160 --> 03:18:06,400
Speaker 11: a relatively close race for New York. Zelden is a

3774
03:18:06,440 --> 03:18:10,360
Speaker 11: Trump loyalist, fought against the presidents to impeachments while in

3775
03:18:10,400 --> 03:18:14,039
Speaker 11: Congress and refused to certify the twenty twenty election results.

3776
03:18:14,240 --> 03:18:18,119
Speaker 11: Great Zelden's a retired US Army lieutenant colonel who served

3777
03:18:18,160 --> 03:18:20,760
Speaker 11: four years in active duty as a military intelligence officer,

3778
03:18:21,160 --> 03:18:25,240
Speaker 11: federal prosecutor, and military magistrate, and twousand and six was

3779
03:18:25,280 --> 03:18:29,640
Speaker 11: deployed with the eighty second Airborne Division during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

3780
03:18:29,840 --> 03:18:33,560
Speaker 3: Wait, so he's a troop cop, military magistrate, troop judge.

3781
03:18:33,680 --> 03:18:35,600
Speaker 11: He's he's served in a few roles.

3782
03:18:35,760 --> 03:18:37,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's troop cop. Shit.

3783
03:18:37,760 --> 03:18:40,279
Speaker 11: He served as a prosecutor and a judge.

3784
03:18:40,760 --> 03:18:44,640
Speaker 7: They hated and reviled troop cop. He looks like maybe

3785
03:18:44,680 --> 03:18:46,680
Speaker 7: he at some point went to law school there, right.

3786
03:18:46,879 --> 03:18:49,720
Speaker 11: He went to law school in New York, either during

3787
03:18:49,720 --> 03:18:51,480
Speaker 11: that time or beforehand. It all kind of takes place

3788
03:18:51,520 --> 03:18:53,879
Speaker 11: around because I think he got out of law school

3789
03:18:53,879 --> 03:18:55,720
Speaker 11: around thousand and four. At at the time he was

3790
03:18:55,760 --> 03:18:58,320
Speaker 11: the youngest person to finish law school in New York.

3791
03:18:58,480 --> 03:19:01,800
Speaker 11: Oh wow, he was in his early twenty After he

3792
03:19:01,879 --> 03:19:04,640
Speaker 11: got out of the military or out of active duty,

3793
03:19:05,240 --> 03:19:08,440
Speaker 11: he briefly served as an attorney for the Port Authority

3794
03:19:08,480 --> 03:19:10,800
Speaker 11: of New York and New Jersey and also private practice

3795
03:19:10,840 --> 03:19:12,280
Speaker 11: for a little bit before he went into the State

3796
03:19:12,280 --> 03:19:16,200
Speaker 11: Senate and then eventually US Congress. Now before Bondie's firing,

3797
03:19:16,840 --> 03:19:18,920
Speaker 11: Pambondi was scheduled to testify in front of the House

3798
03:19:18,920 --> 03:19:22,760
Speaker 11: Oversight Committee about the Epstein files on April fourteenth. Now,

3799
03:19:22,840 --> 03:19:25,440
Speaker 11: Democrats on the committee still want her to testify, as

3800
03:19:25,480 --> 03:19:29,160
Speaker 11: she holds relevant knowledge, but on Wednesday morning, the Justice

3801
03:19:29,160 --> 03:19:31,840
Speaker 11: Department released a statement saying Bondi would not appear at

3802
03:19:31,840 --> 03:19:34,480
Speaker 11: the hearing on the fourteenth quote since she is no

3803
03:19:34,560 --> 03:19:37,680
Speaker 11: longer Attorney General and was subpoenaed in her capacity as

3804
03:19:37,680 --> 03:19:41,600
Speaker 11: attorney general unquote. This is a little bit untrue. She

3805
03:19:41,720 --> 03:19:44,360
Speaker 11: was not subpoenaed by her title as Attorney General. She

3806
03:19:44,400 --> 03:19:47,880
Speaker 11: was subpoenaed by name as Pam Bondi. Now Oversite Commitee

3807
03:19:47,920 --> 03:19:50,400
Speaker 11: Democrats have responded by saying if Bonnie does not comply

3808
03:19:50,520 --> 03:19:53,480
Speaker 11: with the bipartisan subpoena addressed to her by name, they

3809
03:19:53,520 --> 03:19:58,400
Speaker 11: will quote begin contempt charges unquote. Republican Nancy Mace has said,

3810
03:19:58,480 --> 03:20:02,360
Speaker 11: quote Pambondi cannot ass gape accountability simply because she no

3811
03:20:02,400 --> 03:20:04,920
Speaker 11: longer holds the office of Attorney General. Our motion to

3812
03:20:04,920 --> 03:20:07,920
Speaker 11: subpoena pan Bondy, which was passed by the overst Committee,

3813
03:20:07,959 --> 03:20:10,560
Speaker 11: was for a Bondi by name, not by title. She

3814
03:20:10,640 --> 03:20:13,640
Speaker 11: will still have to appear before the Oversight Committee for

3815
03:20:13,640 --> 03:20:16,480
Speaker 11: a sworn deposition. The American people deserve answers, and we

3816
03:20:16,560 --> 03:20:19,160
Speaker 11: expect her to appear as soon as a new date

3817
03:20:19,240 --> 03:20:22,560
Speaker 11: is set unquote. So it appears they will try to

3818
03:20:22,600 --> 03:20:26,880
Speaker 11: reschedule her for a new date. Bondie's firing is interesting

3819
03:20:26,920 --> 03:20:30,880
Speaker 11: in the context of Christy Nomes firing, as for the

3820
03:20:30,879 --> 03:20:33,320
Speaker 11: first year or so of Trump's second term, he really

3821
03:20:33,400 --> 03:20:35,400
Speaker 11: resisted making changes to his cabinet.

3822
03:20:35,440 --> 03:20:35,560
Speaker 4: Right.

3823
03:20:35,600 --> 03:20:38,000
Speaker 11: These these sorts of frequent changes were a hallmark of

3824
03:20:38,200 --> 03:20:40,560
Speaker 11: first of his first term. Yeah, and for the start

3825
03:20:40,560 --> 03:20:43,400
Speaker 11: of his second he seemed to not want to do

3826
03:20:43,440 --> 03:20:46,160
Speaker 11: that and instead got like his ranks of loyalists that

3827
03:20:46,200 --> 03:20:49,720
Speaker 11: he was going to work with. But since Christi Nomes firing,

3828
03:20:49,800 --> 03:20:53,360
Speaker 11: that has clearly changed, and this is prompted speculation about

3829
03:20:53,360 --> 03:20:57,560
Speaker 11: who could be next, from people like Tulci Gabbard to

3830
03:20:57,760 --> 03:21:01,160
Speaker 11: Cash Bettel or Pete Haig Seth. Think Gabbard is is

3831
03:21:01,200 --> 03:21:04,440
Speaker 11: certainly certainly one of one of the people. If I

3832
03:21:04,520 --> 03:21:05,959
Speaker 11: was one of these three, I would I would be

3833
03:21:06,000 --> 03:21:08,760
Speaker 11: most nervous if I was Gabbard. Hotel's an odd is

3834
03:21:08,760 --> 03:21:10,959
Speaker 11: an odd character. I'm really am not sure what's in

3835
03:21:10,959 --> 03:21:15,039
Speaker 11: the future for him a podcast, and I think that

3836
03:21:15,320 --> 03:21:18,600
Speaker 11: what happens eventually in Iran will determine what goes on

3837
03:21:18,640 --> 03:21:19,240
Speaker 11: with HeiG Seth.

3838
03:21:19,920 --> 03:21:22,000
Speaker 7: There have been rumors that some of the reason that

3839
03:21:22,080 --> 03:21:24,520
Speaker 7: heg Seth has been sort of purging high command in

3840
03:21:24,560 --> 03:21:27,760
Speaker 7: the military is that he has concerned that those people

3841
03:21:27,800 --> 03:21:33,599
Speaker 7: would be his replacements, like alternates for him sec death. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

3842
03:21:33,760 --> 03:21:37,400
Speaker 7: Ptel was under more heat. I feel like during following

3843
03:21:37,400 --> 03:21:40,560
Speaker 7: the shooting of Charlie kirk Great the assassination and that

3844
03:21:40,640 --> 03:21:42,600
Speaker 7: their failure to find the assassin for some time.

3845
03:21:43,280 --> 03:21:46,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, and his and his UH plane tickets and his

3846
03:21:46,360 --> 03:21:47,519
Speaker 11: trips with his girlfriends.

3847
03:21:47,720 --> 03:21:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the failure with Savannah Guthrie too.

3848
03:21:50,400 --> 03:21:50,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3849
03:21:50,720 --> 03:21:52,800
Speaker 11: Trump Trump did not like that clip of him in

3850
03:21:52,879 --> 03:21:54,160
Speaker 11: the hockey locker room.

3851
03:21:54,720 --> 03:21:56,720
Speaker 7: H yeah, yeah. There have been quite a few. Now

3852
03:21:56,720 --> 03:21:57,520
Speaker 7: you mentioned them.

3853
03:21:57,959 --> 03:22:00,920
Speaker 11: Before we go, we should mention there's bill about a

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03:22:00,959 --> 03:22:04,520
Speaker 11: week left of Webby voting. It could happen here is

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03:22:04,600 --> 03:22:09,480
Speaker 11: nominated for a Webby as Is James series Migrating to America,

3856
03:22:09,520 --> 03:22:12,400
Speaker 11: which aaredon It could happen here and of course behind

3857
03:22:12,440 --> 03:22:15,160
Speaker 11: the Bastards links to vote for our shows in the

3858
03:22:15,160 --> 03:22:18,760
Speaker 11: Webby Awards will be in the episode description vot it

3859
03:22:18,760 --> 03:22:22,440
Speaker 11: goes till April sixteenth, most important election of our lives.

3860
03:22:22,680 --> 03:22:26,039
Speaker 11: Stay in line, vote early and often, et cetera, et cetera.

3861
03:22:26,440 --> 03:22:30,520
Speaker 7: If you'd like to email us with tips that are

3862
03:22:30,640 --> 03:22:34,680
Speaker 7: relevant to a news coverage, you can do so cool

3863
03:22:34,760 --> 03:22:38,480
Speaker 7: Zone Tips at proton dot me. If you have a

3864
03:22:38,520 --> 03:22:41,480
Speaker 7: marketing message to send us, I will block you.

3865
03:22:42,120 --> 03:22:44,320
Speaker 11: All right, that doesn't for us here at it could

3866
03:22:44,320 --> 03:22:45,119
Speaker 11: Happen here.

3867
03:22:45,560 --> 03:22:47,040
Speaker 3: Put a transgirl on your couch.

3868
03:22:47,560 --> 03:22:49,800
Speaker 11: We reported the news.

3869
03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:53,920
Speaker 3: We reported the news.

3870
03:22:57,080 --> 03:23:00,280
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes. Everyone week

3871
03:23:00,320 --> 03:23:02,240
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3872
03:23:02,959 --> 03:23:05,480
Speaker 23: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3873
03:23:05,640 --> 03:23:08,720
Speaker 23: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3874
03:23:08,800 --> 03:23:12,360
Speaker 23: coolzonmedia dot com for check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3875
03:23:12,440 --> 03:23:16,000
Speaker 23: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3876
03:23:16,040 --> 03:23:18,360
Speaker 23: now find sources for it could Happen here, listed directly

3877
03:23:18,400 --> 03:23:20,680
Speaker 23: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.