WEBVTT - The Power of Shame 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.960 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:13.880 Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.200 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.159 you know, we, uh, we all have a lot of 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:22.720 ideas about what Shane is. Certain images come to mind 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.119 from our own life, from the world of fiction. But 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.560 but we're here to tell you the shame uh is 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:34.600 spider Man. Shame is spider Man. And let's explain that. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.159 Let's unpack that because there were that there was an experiment, 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.800 all right, Yeah, Indeed, two thousand thirteen study published in 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.720 the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. They took 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.760 more than seven hundred persisipents from Finland, Sweden, and Taiwan, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:54.960 and they had them view emotion laden words, videos, facial expressions, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.400 and stories. And then the Protestants self reported areas of 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:02.640 their bodies that felt diff print following the exposure. So 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.200 then they take they took this information and they used 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:09.760 to create computer generated silhouettes with the areas colored to 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.080 no areas of increased bodily sensation like red yellows and 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.759 oranges and decreased cold blues. Okay, so the aim here 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.839 was to map bodily sensations in connection with specific emotions, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.280 and it ends up looking like an infrared image. By 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.240 the way it does. It looks like straight up infrared 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.080 predator imagery of of human body. But but it's not created. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.000 That was created through self reporting, and really they're quite 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.640 interesting looking. Do check it out. Will include a link 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.680 to the study on the landing page for this episode. Yeah, 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.840 you should check it out. Because all of those emotions 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.200 are represented on the body, and the only emotion that 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.600 is a full bodied emotion that self reported is happiness, 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.080 which I think is not too surprising, right, um, But 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.200 the one that we are focusing on today, shame, Well, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.560 it's represent ended in a way that the person the 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.720 silhouette kind of looks like Spider Man, indeed. Yeah. Whereas 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.240 happiness is like bright yellow face, yellow chest, and then 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.720 red over the rest of the body, Shame is uh, 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.680 mostly dark body, but also some red on the chest, 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.960 red face, and then these big sort of almond shaped 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.679 yellow blotches right where our cheeks would be. But they 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.240 really do look like the large, low almond shaped eyes 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.959 of everyone's favorite comic book Web Slinger. Now, this was 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:36.000 observed by a comment er on the the actual article, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.880 which we thought was pretty clever. So we're like, yeah, shame, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.359 shame does look like Spider Man in the body when 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.040 it's expressed. And anxiety, by the way, to me, looks 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.440 like dark Maul. Let's see, let's see whiche is anxiety? Yeah, yeah, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.880 I'm getting a definite dark Maul kind of quality off 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.400 of that, kind of like streaks on the cheeks there. Yeah, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.840 Sadness looks a little bit like um, like that painting 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.680 the the screen, you know. Well, yeah, I thought that too, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.200 and I thought, yeah, that is suddness. Although the scream 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.359 I think it's supposed to be some sort of existential terror. Uh, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.920 that's also sad too. Sadness also kind of looks, you know, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:18.760 unsurprisingly like the ghost character on Yogaba Gabba Google. Google. Yeah, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.920 it looks kind of like Google. I can't believe we 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.040 know that. All right, So obviously we're talking about shame today. Uh, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.200 you know that that particular feeling that is evoked when say, 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.160 your grandmother says something like shema and you, Julie Douglas, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:37.120 shema on you. Right. Um, there, there's a whole boatload 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.520 of stuff associated with shame. But first we should probably 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.680 define it. Yeah, and in this we get into the 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.280 basic meat of shame and guilt. They're often thought off 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.560 sort of that's the same thing, but they're different. They're 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.400 they're they're quite different, and it's just really important. Like 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.680 a lot hinges on this. Yes, So what's guilt? Right? 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.280 When do you feel guilt? You feel guilt when you 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.560 you have remorse for something you did, a specific crime, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.600 specific action. There's this thing that you did and you're like, ah, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.680 I did that, that that sucks, I'm sorry that I 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.320 did it. But then you have shame. And shame is 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.480 a little different. Shame is if it's attached to an action, 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.159 then it's more like, I can't believe I'm the type 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.080 of person who would do that. It's the painful feeling 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:29.799 that arises from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improfitable, improfitable. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.480 It's it's it's almost more tied to there's something wrong 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.040 with me. There's a fault in me, not a fault 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.120 in mere merely in my actions. Yeah. Sociologist burn A 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.920 Brown says, in the simplest term, shame is about who 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.640 we are, not what we've done. It's often lasting devastating 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.320 and makes us feel abnormal and alone. And she gives 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.000 some examples of her own research into this. When she's 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.520 looking at the difference between guilt and shame, says, guilt 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.360 is I did something bad. Shame is I am bad 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.960 or I made a flawed to decision or I am flawed. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.200 So you see the pattern there. Yeah, there are fundamental 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:10.440 differences here that will will definitely pull apart in this episode, right, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.719 and we're gonna talk about how powerful this emotion is shame, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.520 I mean, how we can actually dictate the path of 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.440 your life and how you operate out in the world. 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.040 But first we have to look at one of shame's 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:29.680 calling cards, also guilt and embarrassments calling cards blushing. And 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.680 we'll look at Papa Darwin here, who in the Expression 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.000 of Emotions and Man and Animals, which he wrote in 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.880 eighteen seventy two, looked at the movements of expression in 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.839 the face and the body, and was particularly interested in blushing. 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.679 He said it is the most peculiar and the most 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.600 human of all expressions. Now, Darwin suspected that blushing had 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.159 to do with how we appear to others. He wrote, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:59.200 mental states which induced blushing consists of shyness, shame, the modesty, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.039 the essentially element in all being self attention. It is 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.960 not the simple act of reflecting on our own appearance, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:10.119 but the thinking of what others think of us, which 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.000 excites a blush, and he was onto something there. Um. 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.960 He also felt like the blushing was directly related to 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:19.800 the part of the body that the person was thinking 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.720 of or thought was being observed. In part, he thought 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.120 this because he was looking at a physicians account of 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.520 a woman who when she disrobed and her chest area 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.080 began to blush in her chest area. Now he was 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.000 taking his cues mostly from physicians accounts because he wasn't 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.880 going around making people blushing and gathering a bunch of data, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.120 So that's where he was collecting some of his thoughts from. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.480 And he also thought that blushing could have been genetic, 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.240 like this idea that the more your ancestors blushed, the 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.159 more robust it would show up or be selected for 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:02.520 in yourself. Um. That is this the full pick? Sure? No, um. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:07.600 And in fact Darwin didn't distinguish between embarrassment and guilt 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.960 and shame um to try to get to the reasons 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.240 for blushing. He just kind of lumped them all in 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.000 one big pool. Um. In eighteen seventy one, he wrote 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.200 to his friend H. Wedgewood. He said, I wish I 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:26.000 had said more about shame, an awfully complex subject where 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.920 no two persons would ever quite agree, and I hardly 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.440 expect anyone will agree with me. But as yet I 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.400 naw my colors to the past. In other words, here's 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.840 what I've figured out so far about shame and blushing, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.120 and I don't think it's the full picture, you know. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.239 And indeed the full picture is still kind of lacking today, 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.280 even though there's been a lot more study since that time. Um, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:50.480 you know, with blushing, we're we're again. We're talking about 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.880 the involuntary reddening of a person's face due to emo 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.080 emotional stress. That might be anxiety, it could be romance, anger, embarrassment, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.160 and of course shame. Now the questions arise, though, of course, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.200 um you know exactly, you know, how is it coming 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.120 about physiologically? What are there different types of blushes? Uh? 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.560 You know, we observe things like the mere awareness of 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.080 a blush can cause it to increase. Being told that 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.120 you're blushing when you're not can cause the blush to 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:22.000 manifest um and and and certainly mileage varies from person 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.760 to person. We can we can all think of people 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.440 who blush more easily than others. Um. But scientists have asked, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.360 is a blush a single phenomenon or are there different 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.560 kinds of blushing? Like how do you make sense of 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.600 the fact that you have like that sudden blush, like 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.440 like oops, did something embarrassing? Oops, I'm really shamed. Just 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.439 total red face versus the creeping blush that might manifest, 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.760 you know, slowly during the course of a presentation or 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:54.000 a speech or an increasingly intense conversation. As a psychologist 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.240 Ray Kroizer points out, it's an it's an understuddied area. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.720 It's an understudied area of human expression. Part of this 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.320 is big. The blush is difficult to measure, even with 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.959 our modern tools, even with you know, thermal sensors and cameras. Uh. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.720 The fleeting blush, especially like the micro expression of blushes, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.880 is very difficult to study. And the physiology of the 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.800 blush itself is really a complex tapestry that involves the 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:22.880 sympathetic nervous system and its regulation. It involves uh brandy 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.359 kinon of compound released in the blood in some circumstances 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.240 that causes contraction of smooth muscles and the dilation of 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.719 blood vessels. Histamine, nitric oxide, and a number of other 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.600 combined factors uh and plus you can throw into the 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.120 into and you can also throw into the mix that 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.840 there are plenty of other things that can make your 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.840 face flush, not only emotions, but you know, hot flashes, exercises, 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:50.439 sexual arousal, um, you name it. Well, there's also the 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.600 kind of blush that can arise when you do have 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.079 attention directed towards you. But it's pleasurable, right, Maybe it's 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.400 some sort of positive experience in your blushing, but it 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.439 then can become negative because you're called out for it. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.199 So there's a changeability to blushing. Um. And there there 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.640 are a ton of different kinds as you say that 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.440 we haven't really gotten to the bottom of, and a 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.080 bunch of different sources for blushing. But I think most 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:22.599 people can relate to a blushing related to unwanted attention 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.560 at one time or another in your life. Right. And 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.760 in order to get to the depths of the self 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.800 conscious blush, there was a study conducted by Peter D. 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:38.000 Drummond and Nadia Mirco. This was published in the March 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.000 two thousand and four edition of Psychotherapy, with the paper 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.320 uh titled staring at one side of the face increases 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.080 blood flow on that side of the face. Okay, so 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.040 let's figure out what they did here, because I think 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.200 that gives you a clue to at least one of 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.960 their methods. The setup is this. They had twenty eight 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.560 participants who were asked to either sing out loud or 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.120 read out loud. Robert, what would your preference be? It 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.000 comes down to who's uh, who's watching? You know, I'm 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:12.679 going to be more comfortable reading. But but singing is 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.760 a different a different situation entirely. It's a different experience, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.400 a different communication, a different expression of yourself. Uh. Right, 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.680 Reading is more it's a normative thing, right, Like you're 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.199 talking right now. You can read at the same pace. 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.040 There's not a lot of difference there. But singing out 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.600 of context, like when you're not on a stage really 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.040 kind of uh draws a lot of attention, right, says, Hey, 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.880 look at me doing something totally weird out of context. Um. 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.040 So that's why they chose this, and this is what 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.840 they found. Increases in cheek temperature were greater on the 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:51.400 observed than the unobserved side during both tasks. Okay, changes 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.600 in cheek temperature were symmetrical when the experiment or sat 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.720 next to another twenty three participants and looked straight ahead, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.000 as well when the experiment or stared at one side 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.320 of participants face through a glass window while the participants 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:10.760 would sing. However, increases in cutaneous blood flow were greater 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.240 on the observed and the unobserved side of the forehead 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.800 during singing. Okay, there's more blushing going on on one 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.040 side of the face. Um, So I think that gives 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.599 you a bit of a clue as to that unwanted 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:28.160 attention and how it would act on the body. Okay, 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.280 And of course, as we were discussing before we came 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.360 into record, I imagine this this may differ depending on 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.760 how musical one's family upbringing is, or how how prone 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.400 one is to break into song in their daily life. Right, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.240 if you were really off key, perhaps you would have 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.480 a scarlet blush, which might even be sort of saying 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.920 I apologize. And indeed, that's a whole other argument that 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.840 that blushing is a signal to your fellow. Your fellow 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:59.440 primates to to communicate something. Uh. Now, when it comes 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.400 to primate it's it's worth noting and I think I've 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.960 mentioned this in the past when you when you look 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.719 at social and non social primates, the non social ones, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.080 the loners, that's where you tend to find the really 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.320 crazy looking uh, primate faces, that's where you see, you know, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.760 a whole lot of colors and and uh and and 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.360 and and just crazy stuff going on, you know, like 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:25.080 really the eye catching primates. But the social primates, those 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.840 are the ones that are gonna have the planer faces, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.880 the place that the faces that there's less remarkable coloration 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.480 going on. And that's because the face, as with humans, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.040 is essentially um a communications array. You know, it's for 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.640 the use of expressions and micro expressions to communicate what 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.040 you're feeling and what you're about to do to those 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:45.920 around you. And so the argument here is that the 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.280 blush is pretty much the same. Now, if it is, 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.120 then what is a blush saying? Well? According to clinical 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.679 psychologist and author Robert J. Edelman has done a lot 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.400 of work with blushing and shame, He says that it's 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.720 essentially saying, hey, I'm sorry, I'm at fault. I understand 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.839 the gravity of what has happened, I empathize. In short, 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.199 it's signaling that the blushers uh. In short, it signals 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.920 the blushers adherence to societal norms and acknowledges failure, communicates 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:19.800 appeasement and a nonverbal apology. Um, which which I think 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.040 matches up with a lot of a lot of our 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.920 experiences of shame, you know. Yeah. And I'm just curious 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:31.360 to know what sort of circumstances cause you to blush. Um. Well, 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.480 I was thinking about this earlier when you're talking about 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.280 like positive comments making one blush, Like I I do 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.560 feel like I experienced that if someone says something nice 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.680 about me in the presence of others, I get that 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.840 kind of uncomfortable blush, even though I'm receiving positive feedback. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.920 It's kind of an embarrassment thing. I mean, it's not shame, right, 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.840 you know, it's not a shame. It must be that 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:56.200 attention thing, you know, it's um and uh yeah. And 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.080 in terms of like straight up shameful blushing, I so 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.080 I do blush about Let's say, if I forget to 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.360 you know, do something, you know, around the house, and 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.720 it's like, oh, well, that's you know, like I said, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.000 I forgot to clean the cat box or something, you know, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.280 Like I might blush when I admit that, because it's like, ah, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.080 not only did I not clean out the cat box, 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.520 I'm the type of person who forgets to the cat 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.080 box that's pooping it, um, you know, which is a 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.920 little bit of guilt and shame with that. Yeah, because 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.480 I'm I'm a pretty you know, because I guess it 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:25.960 kind of ties into, you know, how I view myself 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.640 and how I want other people to view me. So 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.120 I view myself as the type of person who wouldn't 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.320 let the cat poop build up your cat box cleaner exactly. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.240 So if I if I deviate from that, like that's 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.720 like a fault in me. So, yeah, I've thought of 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.400 it before, and it for me oddly, it's when someone 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.720 makes some sort of sexual innuendo. I'm not necessarily embarrassed 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.440 at that. In fact, I'm usually the first person to 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.320 do that. It makes some sort of you know, sexual 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.560 innuendo joke. But if someone else says it, then for 0:15:54.640 --> 0:16:00.480 whatever reason, I yeah, where you're just you're it's almost 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.960 like you're you're embarrassed for other people or you're well, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.720 I mean even if it's like you're privy to the joke, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.000 so you were in the culture of the joke, you're 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.160 you're among your fellow primates, and this is the subject 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.760 matter on the table, you know. Yeah, we actually got 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.440 a great email about this. It's called second hand embarrassment. Yeah, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.360 I mean that ties in directly to what we're talking 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.440 about here, But embarrassment it's again its own category. It 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.520 doesn't have these long ranging effects that shame does. Before 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.720 we get into the deterrent side of shame or potential uses, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:32.960 I do want to point out a couple of quick 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:39.000 stats here. One study found that of those polls that 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:43.000 they never blushed alone, which is interesting and it kind 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.880 of backs up the idea that it's about communicating and 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:50.880 being observed. But then you already mentioned like blushing, um 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.760 while writing engage in a solitary act. So yeah, we 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.160 were talking about this earlier that sometimes from the effort 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.720 of writing, especially from writing some piece of fiction, that 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.640 I come out USh cheeked and blushing. Yeah. And oh 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.240 and I also want to point out that there was 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.600 a two thousand nine study that found that people who 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.320 blush due to some violation are seeing less negatively eve 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.520 they blush, So uh, the idea of being that that 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:20.960 again we're potentially communicating authentic shame over something. And then 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.479 when when we receive that signal from another of our 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.160 fellow primates, we say, oh, well, they're really sorry, they 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.240 really feel bad about it, So I'm going to be 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.240 less hard on them because there's the blush. Well, and 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.719 that's an aspect of vulnerability to write. All right, So 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.000 if you want to learn more about blushing, do check 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:42.000 out Josh Clark's article why do people Blush? It's really excellent. Um. Now, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.800 when we talk about shame versus guilt as a deterrent um, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.760 we've got some interesting findings here, especially if you start 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.040 to think about your mom, what her her modus operandi 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.760 was growing up to she shamey or did she guilt you? 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:01.760 Because because one is far more effective in the other. Um. 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:03.800 And this sort of power of shaming, by the way, 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:08.360 goes back way way far right, because um, there there 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.359 is a power to it. It dates back at least 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.880 to the stockades of colonial times here in the United States. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.400 But the question then becomes does public shaming work as 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.560 a deterrent to crimes or even unwanted behaviors and George 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.200 Mason psychologist June technique. She wanted to answer those questions. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.160 She suspected that shame would be less effective than guilt 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:34.000 in deterring for future crime. So think of the example 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.760 of guilt equals I did something bad, right in Shane 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.320 equals I am bad. Okay. Now, what she did is 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.359 she recruited more than four hundred inmates at a local jail, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.160 all recently incarcerated on felony charges. She administered a standard 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.520 assessment to identify which inmates were prone to guilt feeling 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:58.360 feelings or shame feelings, and it also identified those who 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.639 most who were most likely to blame others for their problems, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.679 because that's key here too. Then the inmates served their 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.399 time and they were released. About a year after the release, 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.879 Tagni and her colleagues followed up to see how they 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.439 were doing, and they used several different measurements, including self 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.080 reports and public reports, to come up with a recidivism 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.960 score for each inmate. And by recidivism, what we mean 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.120 here is a relapse into criminal behavior that might land 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.560 them in jail again. Yeah, So her prediction was that 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.919 shame from intimates would be more likely to return to 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.359 crime after they were released, and her initial findings seemed 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.399 to support this. Shame seemed to cause former inmates to 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.280 blame others for their misfortune, leading to to to repeat crimes, 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.080 but those who felt guilty were less likely to repeat 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.600 their crimes a year out. So again placed directly into 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.159 do you do you feel like you're actually guilty or 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.560 is it something deeper? Right? But but then further study 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.760 revealed that this is a little more complicated than that. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.640 UH found that shame led to is m only when 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.320 the humiliated inmates blamed others, but when shamed individuals accepted 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:11.000 the blame themselves, they didn't suffer an increase in recidivism. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.560 So in some cases we can see shame might hold 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.440 you back. Other times it could give you a certain 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.200 amount of strength to give you a springboard to make 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.399 some changes. UM. One of the key ways here UH 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.120 that the technique points out is that shame can make 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.800 you withdrawal from others, and it kind of depends on 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.640 who you're withdrawing from whether that's a good move or bad. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.200 So if you means you're when withdrawing from enablers, from 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.280 other criminals, from addicts, well then that might be a 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.760 step in the right direction. That kind of with withdrawing, 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.960 withdrawing from people would give be like a springboard for change. 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.440 On the other hand, if you're withdrawing from positive influences, 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.440 if you're withdrawing from family in people that you feel 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.400 ashamed in the presence of, or you're withdrawing from other 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.920 important UH structures in your life. Say say church is important, 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.040 you end up withdrawing from church because you're ashamed of 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.640 what you did. If you're withdrawing from you know, other 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.880 other resources that could help you out, then that's that's 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.640 bad news. You just go into that that shame spiral 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.560 away from the UH, the the latter that could pull 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.159 you up. That's right, And particularly if you're withdrawing because 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.520 you blame that person or that institution or that thing. 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:27.960 And we see parallels with the study and alcoholism. Dr 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:32.040 Tony Webb, who holds a PhD in trans disciplinary research 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.640 at the University of West Sydney, has has looked into 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.480 this and he says that internally generated shame turns into 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.639 shaming something done to us that violates our sense of 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.200 the fair go and not unnaturally we tend to react 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:51.240 against this by attacking others, um blaming as as we discussed, 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.680 hiding as we also discussed and hiding from ourselves, he says. 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.560 And so this plays into a kind of social and 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.240 ecological apathy, as he says, and a wide range of 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.399 addictive behaviors have a common root, and what he says 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:12.120 is unacknowledged shame. So let's look at a study here 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.879 that looks a bit more into It's from two thousand 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:19.880 and thirteen from the Clinical Psychological Science by Jessica Tracy 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.879 and Daniel Randall's of the University of British Columbia, and 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.080 they looked at drinking and health outcomes and a sample 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:32.320 of newly sober recovering alcoholics. They used measures that assessed 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.240 both self reported shame and shame related behaviors. And these 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.600 this becomes really important by the way the self reported 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:42.560 versus the behavior. So the behavior might be a narrow 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:47.200 chest and slumping shoulders, and the researchers took that information 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:50.960 and they hypothesized that participants would be less able to 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.600 voluntarily control their behavioral displays of shame and that would 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.719 be their tell. So in the first session, participants were 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.119 asked to describe the last time that they drank and 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.800 they felt badly about it, and the responses were videotaped 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.640 by the researchers. In a second session about four months later, 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.800 participants were asked to report their drinking behaviors and they 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:15.120 completed questionnaires about their physical and mental health at both 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.199 of these sessions. Now Here are the findings people who 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.280 displayed more shame related behavior were likely to be in 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.679 were more likely to be in poor physical health at 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.800