1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

2
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,760
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,160
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

6
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,239
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

9
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

10
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. Emily. I don't know

11
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 3: if you've caught The Bro Show on Monday, but one

12
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 3: of the segments was Woke or Based. We're going to

13
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 3: have the subject of that segment on the show today,

14
00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 3: Doha Macky looking forward to that.

15
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 4: This is a great new game show. I'm all for it,

16
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,239
Speaker 4: Like we should be pitching this NBC.

17
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:44,160
Speaker 3: We really should.

18
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Thursday Night's the NBC Woke or Based

19
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,279
Speaker 4: hosted by Ryan Graham and Sager and Jenny. You'll never

20
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,279
Speaker 4: know who's woke.

21
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 3: And who's based until the end of the program.

22
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 4: That's right. Well, huge news continues to come in. We're

23
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 4: going to start with the very spolashy At least it

24
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 4: was Bill as being splashy interviewed between Sean Hannity, Elon Musk,

25
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 4: and Donald Trump that happened in primetime last night. We're

26
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,160
Speaker 4: going to go through what it all means, what they said.

27
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,399
Speaker 4: We have lots of good clips.

28
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 3: Ryan.

29
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,680
Speaker 4: We're then pivoting to Israel.

30
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 3: Yes, So the hostage exchange went off over the weekend,

31
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 3: despite the best efforts of Trump and jo to keep

32
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,040
Speaker 3: it from happening, and now they are talking about finishing

33
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 3: Phase one faster than they had before. We're going to

34
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 3: talk about you know what's next there. They're also an

35
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,119
Speaker 3: indictment of five Israeli soldiers for their role in raping

36
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 3: a detainee. If you remember, there were those infamous right

37
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 3: to rape protests Israel after the allegations were first made.

38
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,320
Speaker 3: So we'll talk about the indictment that that was just

39
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 3: handed down. We will not get a chance to talk

40
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 3: about big news last night, but you guys just go

41
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 3: read the story on this. Jared Bolsonaro, former president of Brazil,

42
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 3: has been charged a lot with more than thirty of

43
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 3: his alleged co conspirators in trying to do a coup

44
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two to stay in power. Some pretty

45
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,800
Speaker 3: incredible details coming out of there, including the alleged attempted

46
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 3: assassination of a Supreme Court justice who, if I recall,

47
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 3: correctly became a Supreme Court justice in a corrupt bargain

48
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 3: with bolsonarow to get him into the presidency in the

49
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 3: first place, and an alleged attempted poisoning of Lula to

50
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 3: Silva the actual president. Like so, according to the allegations,

51
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 3: Bolsonaro was aware of and approved of a plan to

52
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 3: kill Lula and a Supreme Court justice in the process

53
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,320
Speaker 3: of retaining power. He failed to do so. He came

54
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 3: with the king and missed. He's now polling even with

55
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 3: Lula for the next round. And so we'll see. Did

56
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,760
Speaker 3: they take too long to do this? Do they really

57
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 3: have the goods? I don't know.

58
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,160
Speaker 4: They're gonna send cash pteal to Brazil in Connor right now. Well,

59
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,360
Speaker 4: Patel actually will be up for he basically they've got

60
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 4: to cloture yesterday, so he'll be up for a vote

61
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:01,799
Speaker 4: tomorrow on Thursday.

62
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 3: The labor friendly Republican Yeah, he was up in a

63
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,240
Speaker 3: hearing today too.

64
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 4: That's right. Laurie Schavez de Riemer is sitting before the

65
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,360
Speaker 4: Senate Help Committee. So Labor Committee, and that'll be really

66
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 4: really interesting because she's sort of, at one source tell

67
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 4: me recently quote she's a leftist in moderates clothing, which

68
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 4: is quite interesting because she's also seen as somebody who

69
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 4: could potentially pick up the votes of on the committee,

70
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 4: at least Bernie Sanders of someone like Tammy Baldwin. But

71
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 4: Dog's becoming kind of a cultural litmus test for Democrats.

72
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 4: So we'll pay attention to that. But you'll see the

73
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 4: hearing over the course of the day. That is foreshore.

74
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 4: My colleague James Billow from Unheard interviewed Steve Bannon and

75
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 4: ended up in New York Times headlines, was sort of

76
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 4: everywhere yesterday. So James is going to be on the

77
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 4: show to walk through his experience with Steve Bannon. Bannon

78
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 4: told him that Elon Musk is a parasitic illegal immigrant,

79
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 4: and so I guess it makes sense that ended up

80
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 4: in headlines. But James is going to join the show

81
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 4: to walk through what that means. And we are then

82
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 4: going to dig into the wild Eric Adams saga not

83
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 4: over yet, not over yet, and I think maybe more

84
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,960
Speaker 4: interesting than some people are giving it credit for being.

85
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously the entire indictment is like fascinating from

86
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,359
Speaker 4: top to bottom, has been since it dropped. But the

87
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 4: question of how the Trump DOJ came to try walking

88
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 4: it all back is pretty interesting as well. Then Lena

89
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 4: Khan got a win from Donald Trump's FTC.

90
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 3: Is that's right? Yes, yesterday, the FTC announced that it

91
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 3: would be adopting Lena Khan's framework for evaluating mergers going forward.

92
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 3: Lena Khan has taken a much much broader approach to antitrust,

93
00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,600
Speaker 3: saying that the way that corporate power broadly is impacted,

94
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 3: the way that workers are affected, the way the economy

95
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 3: is affected, needs to be taken into account, not just

96
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,919
Speaker 3: the assertions of corporations about what the effects on prices

97
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 3: and quote unquote consumer welfare would be. The Wall Street

98
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,159
Speaker 3: Journal has argued that Lena Cohn's approach to this means

99
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 3: basically the end of the free world as we know it.

100
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 3: And here you have the Trump FTC chair coming in

101
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 3: and ratifying it, saying they're going to use the exact

102
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 3: same standard. It's the new bipartisan consensus. And so to

103
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 3: talk about that, we're going to have Biden's former anti

104
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,039
Speaker 3: trust chair at the Department of Justice Doha Mecki. She

105
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 3: was the deputy Anti Trust chair for most of Biden's term,

106
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 3: underneath Jonathan Canter. When he stepped down towards the end,

107
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 3: she became acting chief for the last couple months of

108
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 3: the Biden administration. She's close ally of Lena Khon, so

109
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,560
Speaker 3: she'll be on the program to talk about how it

110
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 3: is that MAGA and the left anti trust movement are

111
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,600
Speaker 3: now actually making serious progress in Washington.

112
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 4: That's such a great guest. Let's get to the a block,

113
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 4: which was Donald Trump and Elon Musk's much hyped interview

114
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:02,600
Speaker 4: with Sean Hannity on primetime Fox News Tuesday evening. Now,

115
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 4: there are a lot of good clips that we're going

116
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,200
Speaker 4: to roll through, so bear with us. It was about

117
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 4: an hour long. My top line takeaway from it is that,

118
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 4: you know, Hannity didn't get much out of them, which

119
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 4: we should start by saying, is interesting given that some

120
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 4: of Trump's most revelatory exchanges with the media have come

121
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,159
Speaker 4: in Handity interviews.

122
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 3: He's comfy, he just let it, lets it.

123
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 4: Go, And I'm curious what the audience thinks about this.

124
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 4: As we roll through the clips, my sense is that

125
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 4: they are both a little bit more guarded. In this interview,

126
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 4: Hannity keeps trying to get Elon Musk to talk about

127
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 4: his personal life and to talk about his background, his

128
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 4: career and sort of flex and show people like there's

129
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 4: context for Elon Musk coming into DOGE and reforming the

130
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,840
Speaker 4: federal government and all that. So let's roll a one

131
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 4: from the interview.

132
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 5: The President will make these executive orders which are very

133
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 5: sensible and good for the country, but then they don't

134
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:52,720
Speaker 5: get implemented.

135
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:53,160
Speaker 6: You know.

136
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 5: So if you take, for example, the full the funding

137
00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 5: for the migrant hotels, the president issued executive order, Hey,

138
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 5: we need to stop taking tax payer money and paying

139
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 5: for luxury hotels for illegal immigrants, which makes no sense

140
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 5: obviously if people do not want their tax dollars going

141
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 5: to fund high end hotels for illegals. And yet they

142
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 5: were still doing that even as late as last week,

143
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 5: and so you know, we went in there and we're like,

144
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 5: this is the violation of the presidential executive order. It

145
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 5: needs to stop. So so what we're doing here is

146
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,480
Speaker 5: one of the biggest functions of the Dog team is

147
00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,160
Speaker 5: just making sure that the presidential executive orders are actually

148
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 5: carried out.

149
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 4: And that's obviously the let's say central argument for Dog,

150
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:44,120
Speaker 4: which is that the federal bureaucracy has become so unaccountable

151
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 4: that unless it's radically reformed, you and bio radically reformed,

152
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 4: they mean sweeping, immediate, rapid trauma. As ross Bat would

153
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 4: say to bureaucrats, you never actually will bring them to

154
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 4: heal because the agencies are so sprawling, like it has

155
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 4: to be what they did to USA. I D rinse

156
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 4: and repeat over and over again at these departments. Otherwise

157
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 4: you never actually you still end up having let's say

158
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,320
Speaker 4: a anti let's say say a president who wants to

159
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 4: crack down an illegal immigration being the head of an

160
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 4: executive branch that is not doing that, or a president

161
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 4: who does not want to crack down an illegal immigration

162
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,240
Speaker 4: overseeing an executive branch that does that.

163
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is true that a president probably should be

164
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 3: able to govern within within some reasonable limits, but should

165
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 3: be able to govern, which is not exactly always our system.

166
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 3: But we have a lot of clips to go through,

167
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 3: so I'll try to refrain from popping off, and so

168
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 3: we get through a bunch more of these.

169
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,319
Speaker 4: Here's one more well, Trump was he did a big

170
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 4: press conference yesterday as well, So that's our nice clip.

171
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,960
Speaker 4: Here's one more from the Hannity interview where Hannity kind

172
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 4: of gets into conflicts of interest. Let's let's I'll let

173
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 4: everyone judge. Let's take a look.

174
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,239
Speaker 6: Your task now, and I pray to God this is successful.

175
00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 4: I really do. I wish you god speed, you know,

176
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 4: speed on Glenn.

177
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 6: It's going to be by the way, I really believe.

178
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 6: But there are all the countries that are well beside this.

179
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 6: This is cutting. We're only talking about cutting. We're also

180
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 6: going to make a lot of money. We're going to

181
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 6: we're taking in.

182
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 3: So what about his business?

183
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 7: What if if there is then we all contract?

184
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 3: He would otherwise I do it.

185
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 6: He's got a conflict. I mean, look, he's in certain areas.

186
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,120
Speaker 6: I mean I see this morning. I didn't know if

187
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 6: I said do the right thing where they're cutting way

188
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 6: back on the electric vehicle subsidies. They're cutting back, not

189
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 6: only cutting back, don't you Yeah, now you know I

190
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 6: won't tell you. Well, he's probably not that happy with it,

191
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:41,599
Speaker 6: but that would.

192
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:41,840
Speaker 3: Have been one thing.

193
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 6: He would have come to me and say, listen, you

194
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 6: got to do me your favorite This is crazy. But

195
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 6: this was in the tax bill they're cutting back on

196
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 6: the subsets.

197
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 3: I didn't.

198
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 4: I wasn't involved in it.

199
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,720
Speaker 6: I said, do what's right and you get and they're

200
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 6: coming up with a tax.

201
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 4: But it's just preliminary.

202
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 6: But I mean, if he were involved, wudn't you think

203
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 6: he'd probably do that. Now, maybe he does better if

204
00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 6: you cut back on the subsidies. Who knows, because he

205
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 6: figures he does think differently. He thinks he has a

206
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 6: better product, and as long as he has a level

207
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 6: playing field, he doesn't care what you do, which he's

208
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 6: told me that.

209
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

210
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,680
Speaker 5: I mean, I haven't asked the president for anything ever.

211
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 6: And if it comes up, how will you handle it?

212
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,079
Speaker 3: Well, he won't be involved. Yeah, I'll accuse myself if

213
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: it is.

214
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 6: If there's a conflict, he won't be involved. I mean

215
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 6: I wouldn't want that and he won't want it right.

216
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,559
Speaker 5: And also I'm getting a sort of a daily proctology

217
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,080
Speaker 5: exam here. You know, it's like I'll be getting away

218
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 5: from something in the dead of night.

219
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:34,960
Speaker 7: Welcome to DC.

220
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 3: If you want a friend and get a dog.

221
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 4: I mean, if you are the most powerful man in

222
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 4: the world who's suddenly working in government, you definitely deserve

223
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 4: that daily exam there's no question about it. And actually,

224
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 4: on that note, what Trump just said about the subsidies

225
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,640
Speaker 4: is a great example because Elon Musk as early as

226
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 4: last July he posts it on next take all the

227
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 4: subsidies away, it will help Tesla. So yeah, he's against them, right,

228
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,760
Speaker 4: he's now against Tesla. He's probably right that they would

229
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 4: help Tesla to take those to catch up, right, and

230
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,439
Speaker 4: so on that note, just to the reason we say

231
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 4: is to point out that people in Congress right now

232
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 4: who are coming up with the tax bill and looking

233
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,600
Speaker 4: at what decisions to make already know that Elon Musk

234
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 4: doesn't care about the subsidies. He's well, if anything, he

235
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,840
Speaker 4: encourages removing the subsidies because he said as much.

236
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 3: So it's not really what he needs is tariffs on

237
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 3: China to keep the better, cheaper Chinese evs out of

238
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:27,520
Speaker 3: the US.

239
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 4: Well, that's even complicated with his relationship with China. I

240
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,320
Speaker 4: can't even believe we have to talk about that in

241
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,640
Speaker 4: the context of a quote special government employee.

242
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,720
Speaker 3: But here we say agent as calls him.

243
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's go to Donald Trump's press conference. We're

244
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 4: going to come back to the interview. But on this point.

245
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 4: He was asked by Jonathan Swan of The New York

246
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 4: Times to talk about Doge and SpaceX yesterday. Trump put

247
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 4: together a press conference yesterday late in the afternoon. I

248
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 4: don't know if he was like intentionally trying to tease

249
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 4: the interview. He kind of did the Fox interview. But

250
00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 4: let's let's rule this one.

251
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,920
Speaker 8: And given your concerns about corruption, you said that if

252
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 8: there were any conflicts of interest with Elon Musk, you

253
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 8: wouldn't let him anywhere near it. That's right, Jose and

254
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,680
Speaker 8: SpaceX employees are now working directly at the Federal Aviation

255
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 8: Administration and the Defense Department, agencies that have billions of

256
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 8: dollars in contracts with Musks companies or that directly regulate

257
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 8: his companies.

258
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 3: How is that not a conflict of issue?

259
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I'm just hearing about it. And if

260
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 6: there is, and he told me before, I told him,

261
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 6: but obviously I will not let there be any conflict

262
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 6: of interest. He's done an amazing job, they've revealed. In fact,

263
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 6: he's going to be on tonight at a big show

264
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 6: called Sean Hannity at nine o'clock and he's on, and

265
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,959
Speaker 6: I'm on and we talk about a lot of different things,

266
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,840
Speaker 6: and any conflicts. I told Elon, any conflicts, you can't

267
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 6: have anything to do with that. So anything to do

268
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 6: with possibly even space, we won't let Elon partake in that.

269
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 4: So to the extent they talked about it, it was

270
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 4: Handy saying what about conflicts of interest and then Trump

271
00:12:58,559 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 4: saying we won't let him do it.

272
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 3: John Swan saying, given your concern about corruption, wait a minute,

273
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,079
Speaker 3: gonna need some evidence. I need some receipts for this

274
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 3: alleged concern about corruption. I wish he would have said

275
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 3: it was nine eighth Central. That would have been even funnier.

276
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I know that would have been funny. But

277
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously he talks a lot about corruption, which

278
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,960
Speaker 4: is why Bannon and others we'll talk about this later

279
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 4: in the show, are so irked by his relationship with

280
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 4: Elon Musk. I almost just said Donald Musk. But let's

281
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,840
Speaker 4: pivot back to the Hannity interview. That was a great

282
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 4: interlude with the Jonathan Swan question just hours earlier. But

283
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 4: here's what they talked about in relation inflation with Hannity.

284
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, and inflation is back. I'm only here for two

285
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 6: and a half weeks. That was genflation there back now

286
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 6: think of it. Inflation's back, and they said, oh, Trump

287
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 6: and fact I had nothing to do with it. These

288
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 6: people have run the country. They spent money like nobody

289
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 6: has ever spent.

290
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,720
Speaker 4: If you were listening to this and not just watching it,

291
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 4: you missed the great USAID ticker. It looked like a

292
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 4: when you're watching TV at three in the morning and

293
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 4: they're selling CDs for Elvis's Greatest hits. They were just

294
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 4: scrolling through crazy USAID spending when they talked about inflation there.

295
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 4: Now we have another clip from the press conference getting

296
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 4: to exactly the point Ryan just raised about corruption. Trump's

297
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 4: take on corruption. Let's roll this from the press conference again.

298
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 4: This was just hours before the Fox interview.

299
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 6: We have a very corrupt country, very corrupt country, and

300
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 6: it's a sad thing to say, but we're figuring it

301
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 6: out now. The good thing about social security, and what

302
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,440
Speaker 6: I read is if you take all of those numbers

303
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 6: off because they're obviously fraudulent or incompetent, but if you

304
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 6: take all of those millions of people off social Security,

305
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,200
Speaker 6: all of a sudden, we have a very powerful social

306
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 6: security with people that are eighty and seventy and ninety,

307
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 6: but not two hundred years old, you know, So that's

308
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 6: a very positive thing.

309
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,040
Speaker 3: So finally, go ahead, Yeah, no, I wish that was true.

310
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,160
Speaker 3: And hey, if this lets Republicans get it away with

311
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 3: not cutting it, okay, go ahead, lie to yourself that

312
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 3: there's like huge savings to be made from dead people

313
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 3: getting solid security. It's just not true, but okay.

314
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 4: In the Fox News interview he said that's a red line.

315
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 4: He said, Elon's not going to be touching Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

316
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 4: And actually Frank Omerchetti has a good essay out in

317
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 4: Jacobin that as somebody on the right I think captures

318
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 4: the dynamics of DOJE and the right better than anything

319
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 4: I've been in a long time. I recommend it for

320
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 4: everyone because he goes through russ Boat's arc. Oh yes,

321
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 4: and talks about how austerity used to be seen by

322
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 4: many on the right as their flavor of populism in

323
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 4: the Obama era. And yes, there's been some substantive shifts

324
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 4: by some people away from that American compass those people.

325
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 4: So on the one hand, there's really been sincere movement

326
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 4: by a lot of people to put like policy meat

327
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 4: on the bones of Trump's anti elite sentiments and pro

328
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 4: worker sentiments. On the other hand, they're still lurking very

329
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 4: much an appetite among the people who are around Trump.

330
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 4: Elon Musk's libertarian you know, I guess urges will certainly

331
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 4: egg them on.

332
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,960
Speaker 3: And votes in the key position to implement this revolution.

333
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 4: Right. And obviously, obviously Donald Trump is more powerful than

334
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 4: russ vote. He's more powerful than anyone in the cabinet,

335
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 4: and he's if he doesn't want them to touch the security,

336
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 4: Medicare Medicaid, which he clearly doesn't. He knows that that

337
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 4: would be legacy tarnishing, then he'll probably get his way

338
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 4: on that. But if there's a crack in the foundation,

339
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 4: you could see significant changes. So let's roll this last

340
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 4: clip of Stephen Miller going on CNN yesterday afternoon and

341
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,640
Speaker 4: getting some questions about a White House filing that actually

342
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,480
Speaker 4: clarified Elon Musk is not the administrator of DOGE. This

343
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 4: was they said, he is an employee of the White

344
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 4: House Office. And everyone's sort of looking around being like,

345
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,120
Speaker 4: what does that mean. We've talked a little bit about

346
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 4: his special government employee designation. It's basically impossible for him

347
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 4: to be in compliance with that, it's up to the

348
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,120
Speaker 4: to the DJ to enforce.

349
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 3: It's fortunate for him.

350
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. So all that is to say, though, he goes

351
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,200
Speaker 4: on and gets Steven Miller, goes on Brownie Keeler's show

352
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 4: on CNN, and this is how he answers questions about

353
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,640
Speaker 4: what Basically, who if Elon Musk is not the head

354
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 4: of DOGE, who is leading DOGE. Let's roll this, So

355
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 4: who is in charge of DOGE?

356
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 9: The President of the United States, He's the administrator of DOGE.

357
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 10: No, the DOGE is the what was formerly US Digital Services.

358
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 10: It's an agency of the federal government that reports into

359
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 10: the Office of the Executive Office of the President, which

360
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 10: reports to the President of the United States. Okay, the

361
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 10: way that Article two works as a president wins an

362
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 10: election and then he appoints staff, including myself, including Mike Waltz,

363
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 10: including Susie Wilds, including Elon Musk, and those staff.

364
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 3: Report to him.

365
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 4: Okay, well aware.

366
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 9: So Elon Musk a week ago answered a question about

367
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 9: transparency a DOGE. This is how we spoke about DOGE.

368
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,199
Speaker 5: Well, we actually are trying to be as transparent as possible.

369
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 5: In fact, our actions repost our actions to the DOGE

370
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,479
Speaker 5: handle on x and to the doge website. So all

371
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 5: of our actions are maximally transparent.

372
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 9: But you hear him there we post our actions. All

373
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 9: of our actions are maximally transparent. Does Elon Musk know

374
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 9: he's not in charge of DOGE.

375
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 3: Again?

376
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,960
Speaker 10: The president runs the government. Then the president appoints advisors,

377
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 10: including Elon, I'm including myself, including all the other staff

378
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 10: here at the White House. And then those staff in

379
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 10: turn execute the president's commands and directions to all the

380
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 10: agencies of the federal government. This is how democracy works,

381
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 10: something that we treasure in America. The whole American people

382
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 10: go to the ballot box, they elect the president. The

383
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 10: president appoint staff, the staff that administer his orders and

384
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 10: directives across the whole US government.

385
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 4: Stephen Miller's CNN interviews are actually always pretty entertaining.

386
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 3: They're always funny. He's talking about this is how we've

387
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 3: always done it. People should realize, though, the reason we

388
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 3: have a civil service is from a specific problem that

389
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 3: our government had, which was it was too efficient. You

390
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 3: would elect a president, and you'd elect a Congress, and

391
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 3: then they would very efficiently give themselves all the money.

392
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 3: For instance, if they wanted to build transcontinental railroad, the

393
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: railroads would give free stock to the members of Congress

394
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 3: and to the White House, and then instead of going

395
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 3: through an administrative process where they had to bid competitively

396
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 3: and there would be oversight and igs and inspections, they

397
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 3: would just bribe members of Congress and the administration and

398
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 3: they would get the railroad contract. And then they would

399
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 3: basically be you know, meme coins that would bubble up

400
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 3: and then pop and sent the country into multiple depressions

401
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 3: in the nineteenth century. And at that point, the people

402
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 3: are like, you know what, we don't trust you politicians

403
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 3: and you oligarchs to do this efficiently because you're just

404
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 3: scratching each other's back and ripping us off. So we

405
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 3: want a civil service that is transparent and is accountable.

406
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 3: And so they built one. And it is annoying sometimes

407
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 3: to have to bid for contracts and to have people

408
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 3: ask for paperwork to prove that you're actually like laid

409
00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,360
Speaker 3: down railroad tracks. And so now we're going to back

410
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 3: to the efficient process, and we'll see how that works out.

411
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 4: Well. The efficient process, well, the post efficient process was

412
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 4: still sort of a victory for the oligarchs too, because

413
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 4: they ended up being able to game the system pretty well.

414
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 4: It's not that they didn't lose.

415
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 3: If you look at the oligarchs in the late nineteenth

416
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: century versus from the progressive era through the seventies nineteen seventies,

417
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 3: the oligarchs heyday is now and way back then twentieth century,

418
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: they were on their heels.

419
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 4: They were able to carve out. All I'm saying is

420
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 4: the system still They were able to carve it up

421
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 4: because they have more resources and happened. Saying it's not

422
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: argument against the Yeah, yeah, not an argument against the

423
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 4: system existing at all. Although that is where Elon Musk

424
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 4: and some folks in Trump's orbit will say this has

425
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 4: been Actually they made this argument about DEEI in particularly

426
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 4: like this has been a boon to these different like

427
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 4: equity consultants, And there's probably some truth to the it's a.

428
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 3: Little industry built top around that.

429
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not going to be enough probably to mollify

430
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 4: every voter.

431
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 3: Your doge dividend isn't going to be very big off

432
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 3: the backs of gutting the I.

433
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 4: No, not, but the Elon Musk actually yesterday tweeted that

434
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 4: he was he would think about the Doge diffidend, which

435
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: just quite interesting. But that exchange is also noteworthy because

436
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 4: Doge is the USDs, as Stephen Miller noted, like that

437
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 4: was not something people expected. They took over an existing agency.

438
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 4: It wasn't just this like outside advisory group created Doge

439
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 4: and is now appears to be a series of employees

440
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 4: at different spread across different agencies, as opposed to sort

441
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 4: of a central Doge hub, sort of like Doge vibes,

442
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 4: like just hiring people have Doge vibes.

443
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it's a little uh, it's a sell. Yes, yes,

444
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: it is infiltrating all over the place.

445
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 4: Well, both Trump and Elon Musk are quite good at selling.

446
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 4: So it makes sense that we know the brand. We

447
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 4: know that, Yeah, when we know the organization. All right, Ryan,

448
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 4: let's pivot to this block on the hostage returns.

449
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 3: So phase one of the ceasefire agreement between Israel and

450
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: Hamas may be coming to completion earlier than expected. We

451
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 3: could put this axios element up on the screen. Hamas

452
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: proposed to Israel, and it appears that Israel's close to

453
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 3: accepting an agreement by which all of the remaining living

454
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: prisoners held by held by Hamas, who are scheduled to

455
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 3: be released in Phase one, will be released all at

456
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: once this coming weekend, rather than stretching it out over

457
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: the next two weeks, which means there would be six released.

458
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 3: You put this second second element up on the screen.

459
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 3: As we move to phase two of the negotiations, Hamas

460
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 3: is signaling, and we can talk about this more, quite

461
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: quite strongly, that they are willing to do what Israel

462
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 3: has demanding that they do, lay down their arms and

463
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 3: surrender basically and handover governance either to the Palestinian Authority

464
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: or to some other national unity project. Now, whether they

465
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: whether Hamas would agree to the Palestini authorities an open question.

466
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: What exactly that would look like is an open question.

467
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: But if you notice there the key stumbling bock, there

468
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 3: isn't actually Hamas, it's Israel, which has said absolutely, under

469
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: no circumstances would it allow the Palestinian authority to oversee

470
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 3: Gaza in a in a post in a post war scenario,

471
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 3: which is very i think confusing to people who are

472
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: following this from a FARX. We're like, wait a minute,

473
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: isn't the Palistini authority, the legally recognized representatives of the

474
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: Palatinian people and effectively a subcontractor of Israel carrying out

475
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 3: the occupation in the West Bank and literally doing battle

476
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: with resistance fighters in the West Bank. And and and

477
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: even they are not good enough for Yahoo. Now, what Nenya,

478
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: who has been saying, is that Trump has opened the

479
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: door to possibilities that Israel did not even consider previously,

480
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 3: which is the complete ethnic cleansing and depopulation of Gaza.

481
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 3: Uh Nenya is now saying this will be done voluntarily.

482
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: They will create mechanisms for the people of Gaza to

483
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: leave voluntarily, and that they will all leave. It's a fantasy,

484
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 3: but it appears that Nena was unwilling to move forward

485
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: as long as there's at least a possibility that this

486
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 3: could happen. I guess it's who knows what it is.

487
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: Part of this agreement. There's supposed to be thousands of

488
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: mobile homes and new aid that Israel is allowing in

489
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: hamas is in order to I think, get three hundred

490
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: mobile homes brought into Gaza. That's that's another thing. That's

491
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: that's re upping this hostage exchange. Now two of these hostages.

492
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if you followed this story are deeply

493
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: mentally ill people who stumbled into Gaza in twenty fourteen

494
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: and twenty fifteen. You follow this, So these folks have

495
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: nothing to do with October seventh, and to Hamas's discredit,

496
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 3: they should have released these these men years and years

497
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 3: and years ago. So what happened in twenty fourteen and

498
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 3: a Jewish Ethiopian guy, he's from Ethiopia, he came to

499
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: is really deeply mentally ill. He had wandered, i think

500
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: into the West Bank many times, he was a known

501
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: figure there. One day he just wanders into Gaza and

502
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: he gets captured like immediately and amas, what on earth

503
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: is going on here? And they realized in pretty short

504
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: order that it's a crazy person. And they had just

505
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: done the eled Shalite deal, which they exchanged the soldier

506
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: for thousands of Palestinians, and so there's still thousands of

507
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: Palestinians held. So you can see it from Hamases perpectively, like, oh, well,

508
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: now we have an Israeli hostage, let's exchange him for

509
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: they on thousands more. And so they tried that for

510
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 3: several years. And then another a Bedouin man who was

511
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: also deeply mentally a wanders into Gaza in twenty fifteen

512
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 3: and they capture him too. But it quickly became clear

513
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: that Israel's like this Ethiopian guy and this Bedouin, we're

514
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: not training you anything for them. And so you could

515
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 3: say that's you can say that's two Israel's discredit that

516
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 3: they were not treating those citizens with equal dignity. But

517
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: at that point, if you're Hamas, it's like let the

518
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 3: guys go. You're not getting anything for them. So they've

519
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 3: held these poor guys for ten years at this point,

520
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: so now they're finally getting let out.

521
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:11,239
Speaker 5: Now.

522
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 3: The big controversy over the last couple of weeks has

523
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 3: been over the Bebas family. This one you followed, yes, right,

524
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 3: and we have some news on this from drop site

525
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: from Jeremy Skhill. So this is Sheery Ariel Kiff Beabas,

526
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: a mother and her two children. So there was some

527
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: false hope in Israel that they would be released last

528
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: week as part of this exchange. However, as Jeremy reports

529
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: here and notes, back in November of twenty twenty three,

530
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: Hamas announced that they had all been killed in Israeli airstrike.

531
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 3: The Muja had Dean brigades put out their own statement

532
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: and they said it was one of their factions that

533
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: because you know, October seventh wasn't just Hamas once once

534
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: the fence was broken, a bunch of other groups disconnected

535
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: from Hamas broke through. There were a lot of rumors

536
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 3: that this that there was the Mujahideen Brigades that had

537
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: taken the Bibas family. We now can confirm, you know

538
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: that that that is what happened. Uh. They are an

539
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: offshoot of FATA, which is the kind of rival of Hamas,

540
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: so that you know, there's some collaboration between between all factions,

541
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: but they're essentially a rival group. And so their spokesperson

542
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: says uh, within the framework of the first phase of

543
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: the prisoner exchange agreement with the Resistance, the bodies of

544
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: the Biba's family who were captured by a group of

545
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: arm muja Hadeen will be handed over tomorrow Thursday. They

546
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: were they were preserved and treated well according to the

547
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: teachings of the True Islam, before they were bombed by

548
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: the Zionist occupation missiles and were killed along with the

549
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: captor group. The brigades preserved the family's bodies throughout the

550
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 3: stages of the war until the date of handover unquote.

551
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: So if you remember in November there was this week

552
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: long ceasefire where all children and many women were exchanged.

553
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: They were supposed to be part of that, but they

554
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: were killed before that, before that exchange. We talked last

555
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: week about this nine to seven to two report. I

556
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: don't know if you saw this that was of course

557
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: you saw your here that talked about how Israel had

558
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: discovered that if they used these bunker buster bombs, they

559
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: sucked all of the oxygen out of tunnels as well.

560
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: So even if they didn't know precisely where somebody they

561
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: were targeting was, as long as they got it within

562
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: several hundred meters, they could suffocate anybody in that area.

563
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: And after October seventh there was a high value placed

564
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: on revenge against anybody that they believed was involved with

565
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: October seventh. That's understandable. However, if you were a militant

566
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: involved in October seventh, the chance that you are now

567
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 3: with a hostage, it's pretty high they have. Israel has

568
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: since changed its rules of engagement over how they try

569
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: to assess whether or not there is a risk of

570
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: killing a hostage in a strike.

571
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 4: According to the New York Times.

572
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: According to New York Times in October and November, there

573
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: was effectively no concern for that. If there was a

574
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 3: high value target and you didn't have affirmative evidence that

575
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 3: there were definitely hostages around this high value target, you

576
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: were able to green light the attack. It is in

577
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: that context that we know that Israel killed these these

578
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: three hostages and also the all the people you know

579
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: who were their captors around them. You've seen from some

580
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: commentators on this the killing of these children and their

581
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: mother to be evidence of Hamas' is like depravity, and

582
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: so I just think it's important people have all of

583
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: the context here.

584
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 4: The kidnapped them.

585
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: Well, Hamas didn't. It was a mujahidingbergrade, you're saying, But

586
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: also you should there is no excuse to take children, period.

587
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 3: So even if Israel killed them, there's there is absolutely

588
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: no excuse under any circumstance.

589
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 4: Now that's barbarism and depravity in and of itself.

590
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: And Hamas should have found some way to pressure the

591
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 3: muja Hitden brigades to release them before Israel was able

592
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 3: to kill them, but it happened within weeks.

593
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 4: And then the Hamas distinction to the point you just

594
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 4: made is important because political negotiations. Hamas is saying October seventh,

595
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 4: our operation, this was not us, right. And when Jeremy

596
00:32:51,880 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 4: references media reports about the Israeli Israeli strike and the

597
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: mom and children, is that is that to say like

598
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 4: this has been like Israeli media has said, we have

599
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: definitive evidence that this was bunker busting.

600
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 3: Like that it was, so they don't Israeli media doesn't

601
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: know because Israel at the time was carpet bombing, you know, ministry,

602
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 3: major parts of the area, and and it you know,

603
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: it seems like they had identified probably through some type

604
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: of signals intelligence like following people's phones. The captors I

605
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: see say like, okay, we followed these phones because you

606
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: can you know, look, you know you can just go

607
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 3: on your phone. You know, Apple now can follow your location,

608
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 3: so they could follow Okay, this crew, these Muja hitting brigades,

609
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: they went into Israel on October seventh, they are now

610
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 3: here in this area. That that is the most likely

611
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: scenario that that they identified these are some terrorists who

612
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 3: went into Israel on October seventh, and there's some and

613
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: then they and then they bombed them without thinking like

614
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 3: what did they Okay, we saw they went to a kabutz,

615
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: we saw they went back. Who did they take Israeli

616
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: hostages back with them? And if so, let's actually not

617
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: bomb them as much as we would love, as satisfying

618
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 3: as would be to us to kill them, the like

619
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 3: the high likelihood that you're going to kill hostages with them,

620
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: and so that it is, it is known for certain

621
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: that you know, a significant number of hostages were killed

622
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: under those circumstances, and that has been deeply damaging to

623
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: Danahu and to the entire Israeli society. But it it

624
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 3: took it took a very long time for them to

625
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: reassess that. But that policy, and then.

626
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 4: Thing is, I don't have an answerive seems that I

627
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 4: remember a little bit that FATA reportedly coordinated a bit

628
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 4: on October seventh with Hamas, and Hamas has said basically

629
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 4: became a frenzy that there was like a precise operation planned,

630
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 4: but then it kind of started snowballing into something different.

631
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 4: But there is reporting that FATA was coordinating with Hamas.

632
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 3: There there was, Yeah, there's some indication that there were

633
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: that they knew that something was going to happen, but

634
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: they were formally part right, because they were because the

635
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: Casamber Gades, which led the the operation, for obvious reasons,

636
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: wanted utmost secrecy. Yeah, oh yeah, and they don't trust

637
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: Fatah because FATA's well not only are they their rivals,

638
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: you know they got links to the PA. PA's got

639
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: links to Israel, to Israel, so you don't know who like,

640
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: so there was there was, but you know, they wanted

641
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 3: back up. So they wanted it known there's going to

642
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: be something happening, but they didn't want to let them

643
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 3: know precisely. I mean, what did happen?

644
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 4: And even more stunning intelligence failure on Israel's behalf. But

645
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 4: the last thing I want to say is I think

646
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 4: Jeremy's tweet to the House was House Foreign Affairs Committee

647
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: is just.

648
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 3: Important, That's right. Which one was that it was.

649
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 4: One of the early Yeah, there it is. They're saying

650
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 4: Hamas executed a mother and her two children in cold

651
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: blood and reference to these specific family and it's.

652
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: A good and actually that next line is really important.

653
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 3: So if you're just listening along the House Foreign Affairs Committee,

654
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 3: Republicans say, quote, this is barbarism, and then this is

655
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: the key point. Israel has every right to finish the

656
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 3: job and eradicate these terrorists from the face of the earth.

657
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: So it is known at this point, this was yesterday.

658
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: It is known at this point that Hamas did not

659
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: execute a mother and her two children cold blood, this

660
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: particular family. Yeah, Yet the House Republicans here are using

661
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: that claim to say, now we need to eradicate and

662
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: that's being done in the context of Trump's push to

663
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: ethnically cleanse the entire area.

664
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 4: So, and the reason, I just think what Jeremy said

665
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: is important, even though to some people they may say, well,

666
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 4: October seventh was barbarism and prouty, Well it was, and

667
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 4: that's sort.

668
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: Of The pets took civilians, absolutely, killed hundreds.

669
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And that's sort of the point here is that

670
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 4: the House for Affairs Republicans, maybe some social media staffer

671
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 4: posted this, but you don't have to go along with

672
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 4: misinformation here. You don't have to. And I think there's

673
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 4: so much I mean, we've talked at length about how

674
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 4: the Sharin Abubakola case personally just was an interesting, I

675
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 4: guess gateway to a lot of different things on my end.

676
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 4: But you don't have to rely on misinformation. You don't

677
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 4: have to build so much of this on the house

678
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 4: of cards. That is misinformation. You don't have to build

679
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: your case on that. And repeatedly it is built on misinformation.

680
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 4: That's just sort of I don't want to use the

681
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 4: phrase too good to check, but too convenient.

682
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: I know what you mean.

683
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's too convenient for the narrative to check.

684
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's no price to pay domestically in the US, like,

685
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 3: there's no there's going to be no consequence for the

686
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 3: House Foreign Affairs, Republicans or anything.

687
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 4: They didn't even delete it up.

688
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, because anybody who come fact checks it like we're

689
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: doing then gets accused of, yes, you know, being apologists

690
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: for like kidnapping them.

691
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: It's incredibly sensitive to do it without looking callous because

692
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 4: otherwise you just look like a fact check bro, like

693
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: you're swooping in to say, well.

694
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: But actually brutal, but they didn't do that.

695
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so yes, I mean, but that's how the

696
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 4: cycle perpetuates itself.

697
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of barbarism, quickly, before we move to this

698
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: incredible story out of Miami and put up this last

699
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 3: Jeremy post. In Israel, five five Israeli military reservists have

700
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: been indicted for the torture of a Palestinian who had

701
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 3: been held at stay time in prison. This was a

702
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 3: case that made international headlines because there was video of it,

703
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: and because it then was debated in the Kanessets, with

704
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: people in the Kannesset arguing that there should not be

705
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 3: any prosecution for this, that it is within the Israeli

706
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: reservists right to do whatever it is that they believe

707
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 3: they want to do to Palestinian detainees. And the counter

708
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: argument in the Kannesset, and by the way, this led

709
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 3: to those infamous right to rape protests, the counter argument

710
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: in the Kannesisset was not this is wrong and it

711
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: should be prosecuted because it's wrong. Counter argument was, according

712
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: to the International Criminal Court, they only have jurisdiction if

713
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: there is no accountability mechanism within the state itself, and

714
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: that's Congo, Kenya, Israel. It doesn't matter. The ICC does

715
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 3: not have jurisdiction if there are prosecutors on the case

716
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: in a particular state. And so there were people in

717
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: the Canessa that said, we have to prosecute some people

718
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: for something, or we're all going down. So let's prosecute

719
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: these guys. They're caught raping a detainee on video. Let's

720
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: just you know, basically, just throw them under the bus

721
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: so that we can show the ICC that we're doing something,

722
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 3: and then our lawyers of the ICC can show them

723
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 3: this indictment say, look, you don't have jurisdiction here because

724
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 3: when people commit crimes here, we prosecute them. But the indictment,

725
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: which people can find online is just extraordinary. Quote. For

726
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, the accused kicked the detainee, stomped on him,

727
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: stole on his body, hit him, and pushed him all

728
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 3: over his body, including with clubs, dragged his body along

729
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 3: the ground, and used a taser gun on him, including

730
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: on his head. During the assault, the blindfold came off

731
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: the detaining and moments later one of the soldiers stabbed

732
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: the detaining in his buttock with a sharp object, which

733
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: caused an internal tear in his rectal wall. They then

734
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: used a t shirt to try to cover up the bleeding,

735
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: but after a while the bleeding became so intense that

736
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: he was taken to taken to the hospital. He had

737
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 3: the result of the suffering, according to the indictment, which

738
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: is based on medical records, includes seven broken ribs, of

739
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: punctured lung terar in his rectum and injuries all over

740
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: his body. So they have been indicted, so that is good, incredible.

741
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: It would be better if he was indicted because they

742
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: believed that this was wrong, and some absolutely do. But

743
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: the most persuasive argument being made for why they should

744
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 3: be indicted is so that other people don't get dragged

745
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: before the ICC.

746
00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess that's the idea, and the post

747
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: World War two reforms to have some of these international

748
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: bodies is to create incentives for better behavior.

749
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 3: So in that case, okay, there we go, there you go.

750
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 4: That's the glass half full, all right, Yeah, it doesn't

751
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 4: matter why.

752
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: There was a report released last week about that prison

753
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 3: thirty Pagde human rights report that barely made a ripple,

754
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: and you read through it, you're like, one of the

755
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: things they say, that gravel that they mentioned there, they

756
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: make people sit on the sharp gravel for sixteen straight

757
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: hours without being able to move. If you and I

758
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: had to sit in these chairs for sixteen hours, you

759
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 3: can't do it for sixteen seconds and then they're nice

760
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 3: cushion like, these are comfy chairs, but don't want to

761
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: move around. Would still be torturous, Yeah, on sharp gravel

762
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 3: like anyway. So this is the things that were described

763
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 3: in that indictment are happening as you and I speak,

764
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: two people right now, and will be happening the rest

765
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: of today and tomorrow and the day after, the end

766
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: of the day after that. Let's move to Miami. This

767
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 3: this incredible story.

768
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 4: Incredible there.

769
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: So over the weekend we can put this guardian element

770
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: up on the screen. This first one, Mordecai Braffman, twenty

771
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 3: seven year old Jewish man, is driving down the highway

772
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: in Miami and sees what he thinks are two Palestinians,

773
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 3: gets out, stops them.

774
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 4: For even just stopping there. That's weird.

775
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, look what are you doing? Keep driving? Yes, he

776
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 3: gets out, stops them and opens fire with a semi

777
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 3: automatic handgun. If this wasn't if there wasn't some video

778
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 3: evidence of this, plus the direct testimony of Braffman himself,

779
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: I'd be like, there's no way any of this is true. Agree,

780
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 3: So Braffman, so that he fails to kill these two

781
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: people who.

782
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 4: Are seventeen shots, He gets off seventeen shots in Miami Beach.

783
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: They turned out to be Israeli tourists, is Rahi Jews

784
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: in Miami. We're going to talk about that. Talk about that.

785
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: More so, he was mistaken about their religious identity. They run,

786
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 3: they and we have a video of them trying to

787
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 3: get into this conrad to get some help. One shot

788
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: in the shoulder, the other was only grazed in the arms.

789
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: That's how they were able to live. Police come to

790
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: the scene and they capture Brafman and they arrest him.

791
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: They bring him in, they interrogate him and he confesses.

792
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: He said, I saw two Palestinian men and I killed

793
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: them both.

794
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 4: I killed two Palestinians.

795
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 3: That's what he tells them. Turns out he learns later

796
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: his two mistakes he made. He didn't actually kill them,

797
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 3: and they were not Palestinian.

798
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 4: When you mow people down from a car, it's interesting.

799
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: To say they're not Palestinian from Palestine. And we'll talk

800
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 3: about that in a moment. After they are shot at

801
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 3: one of them posts on social media. We can put

802
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: this up on the screen. They tried to murder us

803
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 3: in the heart of Miami, but the creator of the

804
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 3: world is with us, so he didn't go. He said,

805
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 3: my father and I went through a murder attempt against

806
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 3: anti Semitic background, so he blames anti Semitism for it.

807
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: So I want to say thank you to everyone for

808
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: their support. And it is not taken for granted with

809
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: Israel Live Israel, Death to the Arabs. So this is

810
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 3: the guy who has a bullet in his shoulder because

811
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: the Miami guy thought he was a Palestinian, but he

812
00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 3: kind of is Arab. So this is a weird thing

813
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: that that's what's so complicated about this whole question. Yes,

814
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: and he's they are considered to be you know, Arab

815
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: by a lot of Israelis even though they are Jewish Israelis.

816
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: I mean, put put up this vo here, so here here, here,

817
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 3: these here, these guys are giving an interview describing, you know,

818
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 3: what happened, and you can see, like you can see

819
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: why if you're a Miami guy who doesn't live in Israel,

820
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 3: you were like, oh, those these are Palestinian guys. Although

821
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: I'm not sure why he didn't think, like this is

822
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: Miami could have it could have been Colombian Mexican like

823
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 3: Puerto Rican urban possibil are endless. How you picked them

824
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: out as Palestinian.

825
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 4: That you were just driving through Miami Beach and you

826
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 4: see two dudes that you think might be Palestinian and

827
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 4: start it's.

828
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: Not in Miami either.

829
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 4: Insane. It's insane that none of it really makes sense.

830
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: The same guy, by the way, Mordecai Local News interviewed

831
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: him months ago because there was some vandalism of a

832
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 3: Jewish flag at a coffee shop, and he did one

833
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: of those men on the Street interviews where he says,

834
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 3: I wish we could all just get along. Why does

835
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: there have to be so much strife and conflict? And

836
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: so they replayed that interview with him, and then months

837
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: later he pulls over and just opens fire on two

838
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: guys because he thinks extremely weird with Arab So, I

839
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: don't know if you guys follow alone with Rahi. He's

840
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 3: a Israeli as his last name on Twitter says is

841
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 3: Rahi Jew from Israeli from Israel. He has actually since

842
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: left Israel recently. He now lives in the United States.

843
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: He's so driven, so insane by what was going on

844
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 3: in Israel, so he wrote on Twitter large following here

845
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: he says what most people don't get about the incident

846
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: in Miami where a Jewish man alone is Jewish, where

847
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: a Jewish man shot to other Israelis whom he thought

848
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 3: were Palestinians. Is the inter Jewish racism. The shooter is

849
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 3: an Ashkenazi, a white European Jew. His victims are Arab Jews.

850
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: To him, brown Jews look like Arabs, but that's only

851
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: because they are. If there ever was a more perfect

852
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 3: demonstration of the facan made up the idea of a

853
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 3: Jewish ethnicity or nation, I never heard about it. His victims,

854
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 3: by the way, would rather he shot them again that

855
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: admit their Arabs. And I think, I think alone is

856
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 3: almost fair in saying that, because after they got shot, Yeah,

857
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 3: death to the Arabs. And his point here is that

858
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: these guys are Arabs, that they have lived in Arabia forever,

859
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 3: for thousands of years. Zionist brainwashing is the strongest propaganda

860
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 3: material invented by mankind, he says. And so Arab Jews

861
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 3: would rather die than face their arabness, and white Jews

862
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 3: would rather kill Arab Jews that acknowledge the humanity of Arabs.

863
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: This is from an Arab, an Arab Jew, So you're like,

864
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: you can imagine what his experience was like as an

865
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 3: Israeli citizen that drove him to say this and then

866
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: to also leave and move to the United States.

867
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 4: I can't wrap my head around the story being true.

868
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: It's completely wild, and the lack of media coverage over

869
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 4: it is also absolutely insane. I do think it's true

870
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 4: that had this been a case of like.

871
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: If the shooter was Arab, it's crazy, it would be

872
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: wall to wall cover.

873
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 4: We'd be hearing a lot more about it. But I

874
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 4: don't know if media is just as confused about what

875
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: to do with the story. It seems enormously significant to

876
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: me that somebody fires seventeen shots at people they drove

877
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 4: by on Miamph. I mean, it's just an insane story,

878
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 4: but there's so little coverage of it. I mean, I

879
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 4: don't know if it's just because people are confused with

880
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 4: how to handle it doesn't fit into any narrative very conveniently,

881
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 4: but it's insane.

882
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, people often make the argument that

883
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: the Israeli occupation is obviously you know, the primary victims

884
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 3: of the Israeli occupation are those who are occupied. But

885
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 3: Israelis themselves are victimized in the sense that the necessity

886
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 3: of carrying out or the action of carrying out a

887
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 3: brutal occupation of another produces in your society the kind

888
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 3: of thing that alone is describing there a stratification of racism,

889
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: hatred that then drives a wedge between even Jewish Israeli

890
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 3: citizens based on color and ethnic origin. And like you said,

891
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: it's like the whole idea of Israel is to create

892
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 3: this national identity where all at least all Jews inside

893
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 3: Israel or equal. And what he's saying is that this

894
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 3: is another another example of how that's just not the case.

895
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 4: Jews inside of Israel in theory equal, not based on

896
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 4: skin color, but based on Jewishness. And that's incredibly complicated

897
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: for a society to accomplish when it's there are distinctions

898
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 4: like literal tribal distinctions.

899
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and there's some and there's some color involved,

900
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 3: a little whiter, a little less white.

901
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 4: Right, crazy story, crazy story not getting nearly enough of.

902
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 3: New York Times, which is something like live blog the

903
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 3: campus protests and had like fifteen different editors, you know,

904
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 3: working on the story and where was it in the Netherlands,

905
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: the soccer each other Like that was like an all

906
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: hands on deck moment for the New York Times. But

907
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 3: Miami they can't. They don't have anybody in Miami, seventeen

908
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: shots five. I think New York Times might have some

909
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 3: readers in Miami.

910
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 4: Probably, yeah, probably, well increasingly probably last But all right,

911
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 4: let's move on to Steve Bannon. We're joined now by

912
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 4: my colleague get unheard, James Billow, who had the great

913
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 4: pleasure of interviewing Steve Bannon actually in the war Room

914
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 4: studio and made headlines all over the place, ended up

915
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 4: in the New York Times Politico because Steve Bannon told

916
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 4: James that Elon Musk was quote a parasitic illegal immigrant

917
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 4: and actually much more so. James, First of all, thank

918
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 4: you so much for joining us today.

919
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 7: Thank you a pleasure to be all.

920
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 4: Tell us about your meeting with Bannon. What is the

921
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 4: war room studio like? What was it like being there

922
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 4: talking to him in the flash after the guilty plea?

923
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 4: I think you talked to him just a couple of

924
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 4: days after that all happened. How are his spirits?

925
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: He was in a great mood and actually a pretty

926
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 1: garrulous chap. I'm I'm sure that'll come as no surprise whatsoever,

927
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: but that it was too deftly he pled guilty to

928
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 1: the board of wolfsm But more importantly in his eyes,

929
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: there was nominational confirmation of Robert F. Kennedy, which he

930
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: was in a very good mood about. I think the

931
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: thing with Bannon is that although he's red lines with

932
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: the Keys and he's very positive about the likes of

933
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: Tulsi and Robert Fie joining the movement, he's very big

934
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: on the MAHA stuff. In his words, he's like, I'm

935
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: so glad we got the red pilled moms and the

936
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: anti vaxers that were all coming to join forces. It

937
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: wasn't actually really sure how big this constituents. I asked him,

938
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: how many people do you ac think the Tulsi's Kennedy's

939
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 1: the world bringing over? And he seemed to think it

940
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: was somewhere between five and ten million, all thanks to

941
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: the radicalization of COVID, which is maybe possible, maybe a

942
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: bit of a stretch. But as for his studio, it

943
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: was a complete mess. There was memberbilius over the place.

944
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: There was religious be a lot of reminders and signs

945
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 1: to fight, fight Fight. I'm sure that pretty familiar to everyone.

946
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: But you know, he's very diligent about what he does.

947
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: He has markings all over these little newspapers, wall Street

948
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: Journal ft and then has MSNBC on the background because

949
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: he comaga better than anyone else on the right desk.

950
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's a very interesting chat and it was

951
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: good to good to speak with him and spend so

952
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: long with him.

953
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 3: One of the things you picked up on was his

954
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 3: ambivalent relationship or with Elon Musk at this point, where

955
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 3: on the one hand he says Elon Musk is a

956
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 3: parasitic illegal immigrant and the tech frows need to be

957
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,439
Speaker 3: driven out of this coalition. On the other hand, he says,

958
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: right now, I trust Trump because Trump is using Musk

959
00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 3: as blunt, blunt force instrument to go after the administrative state. Now,

960
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 3: Bannon is not one for austerity. Now, he'll talk about

961
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: how the deficit and the debt are out of control

962
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 3: and the country needs to do something about that, but

963
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 3: he does not want to go after Medicaid, social security, Medicare.

964
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 3: He does not want tax cuts for the rich. He's

965
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 3: fine with the tax cuts, no tax on tips, that

966
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 3: sort of thing that he hates. The administrative state. Musk

967
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,959
Speaker 3: and his Musk and and russ vote, you know, seem

968
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 3: much more to be driving towards real austerity, like genuine

969
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: austerity what's what's what's Bannon's relationship to vote though? You know,

970
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: Trump's o MB director because like Bannon's antiosterity credit is

971
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 3: undermind if he's too close to vote. So how should

972
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 3: we think about where Bannon is on this? On this question?

973
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: I agree because his his MAGA well view co hit

974
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: is in a lot of respect. There's these kind of

975
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: populist measures that he is in favor of enforcing, you know,

976
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: the as you mentioned, no taxes on over time and

977
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: no tax on tips and that kind of thing, while

978
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: at the same time reduced spending in the defense industry

979
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: of the Pentagon. The weird thing is he's actually got

980
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: a very good relationship with russ even though he is

981
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: this kind of arch Austerian, as you mentioned in the

982
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,399
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal piece that or so before mine, when

983
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: they're doing a tour around his studio, he got a

984
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 1: call from russ vote basically outlining you're the one in charge,

985
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: not go and do your job. A bit further than that,

986
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: he was quite keen to show off.

987
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 3: He broke uple. He broke up a little bit there.

988
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 3: What was the what was the call? What was the

989
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 3: relationship there?

990
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

991
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: Sorry, So he got a call from russ Vote basically

992
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: asking for his advice, and it was the effect of

993
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: balance response that you're in charge here, you can decide.

994
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: And I asked him a bit more about this in

995
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: our meeting and he said he has a very good

996
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: relationship with Russfo.

997
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 7: And he says, look, you're the one in charge.

998
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: Now do push you around doges one that has been

999
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: elected or appointed.

1000
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 7: You are the one in charge.

1001
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 4: Now.

1002
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: What I found strangers, as you mentioned RUSSFO is this

1003
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: kind of ultra Austerian tax libertarian type. And I said,

1004
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: we why have you got such a close relationship with

1005
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: this guy? And he's like he's been a part of

1006
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: the alliance for eight plus years. I trust him. Always

1007
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: seems to come down to this trust. And again with Trump,

1008
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: you employing all these measures like you're going to redo

1009
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen jobs and tax cuts, even though that's

1010
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: going to increase the deficits. You know, I just backed

1011
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: Trump to do the rep to make the right decision.

1012
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: I just backed Trump to keep muscle and the other wrangled.

1013
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: So does seem to be this weird paradox aradiction and

1014
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: worldview that I can't head around. But yeah, he's a

1015
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: big fan of russbo He's a big fan of Project

1016
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.

1017
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 7: He said he loved the document.

1018
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: The only thing he didn't like were these two entitlements

1019
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, which again because that there's a

1020
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: big part of what RUSS vote is about.

1021
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 3: Well, Emily, can you help us with that, Like how

1022
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: do we disentangle this? Because if Bannon does trust russ Vote,

1023
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 3: then I'm out of here, Like come on, like what's

1024
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: going on here?

1025
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 4: Bannon's no longer ye, I'm off the the hero that well,

1026
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 4: so RUSS vote being trusted by Bannon is a really

1027
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 4: interesting point, James, because Bannon does sort of see things

1028
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 4: you quote him in the story talking about how the

1029
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 4: enemy of his enemy is his friend. But also he

1030
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 4: very much has this trench warfare bunder mentality that people

1031
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 4: who have been around the conservative movement and have been

1032
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 4: around the Trump movement you just sort of have. Like

1033
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 4: Russ was a populist in the late aughts and early

1034
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 4: twenty tens, when populism on the right looked like austerity.

1035
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: It looked like a lot of people here in DC

1036
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 4: said this is the time to deal with security and

1037
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 4: titlement programs. They said the Tea Party was something to

1038
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 4: be interpreted as like a referendum on fiscal conservatism as

1039
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 4: opposed to maybe this sort of like primal cultural shout

1040
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 4: that I think we understand it to be now. And

1041
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 4: Russ was around, it was at like Republican Study Committee

1042
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 4: around like Jeb Henzerling and Mike Pence actually at the

1043
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 4: time in those days. So Bannon sort of looks at

1044
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 4: vote and says, this man has always had populist instincts.

1045
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 4: He's always been a part of the so called movement,

1046
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 4: and if you're around the conservative movement, people really do

1047
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 4: have this instinctive trust. And it sounds like James, that's

1048
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 4: what you picked up on. I'm also curious if you

1049
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 4: could just tell us a little bit more if on

1050
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 4: the flip side of that, some of this is Bannon

1051
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,479
Speaker 4: seeing Elon Musk. He's referred to him as somebody who's

1052
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 4: a convert, so he should be sitting in the back

1053
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 4: pew before. Was it sort of like volcanic visceral when

1054
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 4: you were talking to him about Elon Musk. I know

1055
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 4: we've used the parasitic illegal immigrant quote that made headline,

1056
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 4: but he told you some more about Musk as well.

1057
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I just just about russ vote.

1058
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: I think the left is often criticized for these ideological

1059
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: purity tests, and it's almost like the right far the

1060
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: other way.

1061
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 7: They'll basically let anyone in the movement because grow, even though.

1062
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: It's quite becomes quite difficult to paper over these quite

1063
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: noticeable contradictions between various groups. As for Musk, he was

1064
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: definitely at his most animated him. I don't know if

1065
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: you guys remember this interview ban I don't know if

1066
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: you remember this, but Bannon did an interview with an

1067
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: Italian newspaper just before Another day where he was asked

1068
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: about Elok and that's when he is a truly evil

1069
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: guy and everything in my power to run him out

1070
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: of office before inauguration.

1071
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 7: He obviously failed in that. And I brought this up

1072
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 7: and I said, well, what do you plan to do now?

1073
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: And again it's this weird paradox because he said, well,

1074
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: I think that the last two two weeks, two three

1075
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: weeks of administration has confirmed that Musk is indeed evil.

1076
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: The Doge cuts being completely performative. They haven't a Oh

1077
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: and by the way, he's an agent of Chinese influence. Well,

1078
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: why the hell are you laying office. Why aren't you

1079
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: pushing to get him out? And he says, I just

1080
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: trust Trump. Trump is going to keep an eye on him.

1081
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: He has served a purpose. He's, as you mentioned, Ryan,

1082
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: here's this armor piercing shell taking on this administrative shape.

1083
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: Because let's not forget that was one of the three

1084
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: totems of his twenty seventeen platform. And he still is

1085
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: absolutely desperate to take on this what he calls praetorian

1086
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: guard and if that means wrangling the tech rows in

1087
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: the world's richest man, then he's absolutely going to.

1088
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 7: Be doing it.

1089
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 4: James Billow of Unheard, thank you so much for your

1090
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,959
Speaker 4: time this morning. I know you're probably inundated with people

1091
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 4: being like, damn, tell me more about that conversation, So

1092
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 4: thank you.

1093
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 7: Thanks well.

1094
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 4: Drama continues in New York over Eric Adams, the agreement

1095
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 4: Eric Adams made with the Trump administration over migrant deportations. Now.

1096
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 4: Tom Holman, who is Donald Trump's Borders Are, was asked

1097
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 4: about some pushback from Alexandria Cosioquortez on Fox News and

1098
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 4: gave quiet an answer. Let's roll this clip.

1099
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 3: Heard you talking about AOC over the weekend. Do you

1100
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 3: believe she is breaking the law.

1101
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 11: Hull leing that up to doj When I find this

1102
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 11: servance that any member of Congress wants to educate people

1103
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 11: how they bade law enforcement, you can claim you're educating

1104
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 11: those constitutions rights. Okay, you can keep that claim. What's

1105
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 11: what she in facts doing? Tell people don't open your door,

1106
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 11: hiding at home, don't talk to Ice. We're talking about

1107
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 11: people are in the country legally committed a crime their

1108
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 11: public safety thread, They've been convicted of serious crime, and

1109
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 11: they've in order to be moved by federal judge so

1110
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 11: it's able to see. And others don't want Ice to

1111
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 11: enforce the laws that they enacted. She's a member of Congress.

1112
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 11: Let us enforce the laws you enacted. That's what we're

1113
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 11: supposed to do.

1114
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 4: You can't go after her.

1115
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 11: Do you think others should?

1116
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 4: No?

1117
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 11: I think I've asked you, Jade, where where is that

1118
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 11: line of impediment of interference? Now someone standing in your

1119
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 11: way for Benu from wrestling, somebody put your hands on

1120
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 11: and that's impediment. But what what line is telling people

1121
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,919
Speaker 11: to hide from myce not open the door? Want where

1122
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 11: do you cross that line on a Department of Justice

1123
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 11: give us that line. You have talked to him about this,

1124
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 11: That's what you're saying, absolutely.

1125
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 3: And so that's not an off the cuff response. He

1126
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 3: he had said that multiple times previously. And I think

1127
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 3: Fox there is seeing if he's going to clean that

1128
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 3: up or if he's actually if this is where he stands.

1129
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 3: So and so what Homan is saying is that AOC,

1130
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 3: by giving clinics in her district or by talking openly

1131
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 3: on Instagram Live or whatever and saying, look, they're called

1132
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 3: know your Rights trainings like here, here are the rights

1133
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 3: that you have. You know, right to remain silent, blah

1134
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: blah blah. You know the basic rights that we have country,

1135
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 3: which there's nothing in the constitution that says our rights

1136
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: are restricted to citizens. If you are in this country,

1137
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 3: you have these, You have these rights in general. So

1138
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 3: AOC responded by going after JD. Vance and saying, you

1139
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 3: lied to the world in Munich. If this administration believed

1140
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 3: in free speech as you claimed, its leaders wouldn't be

1141
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 3: threatening members of Congress with criminal investigations for educating the

1142
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 3: public of their constitutional rights. And so the other element

1143
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 3: here that I think is interesting is that AOC has

1144
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 3: gotten a lot of mockery for previous suggestions that the

1145
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 3: Trump administration was going to come after her criminally, Like,

1146
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 3: don't be ridiculous, you know this is you're being hysterical.

1147
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 3: It's February, like they haven't been in office a month

1148
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 3: and a court and Holman is talking to the Department

1149
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 3: of Justice asking them whether or not she has broken

1150
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 3: the law.

1151
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 4: He's asking for the line between helping criminals evade prosecution

1152
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 4: or deportation. That's what he said. He's trying to figure out.

1153
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 3: There is a crime called impeding, which if you are

1154
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 3: getting in the way of immigration officials, you can be

1155
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 3: charged with that. In fact, I covered this utterly insane

1156
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 3: case that was run by a Democratic Attorney General or

1157
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 3: democratic US attorney under the Obama administration named Carmen Ortiz, who,

1158
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 3: for nakedly political purposes, went after this bureaucrat who who's

1159
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 3: cleaning lady or nanny like, came to her and said,

1160
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 3: I think, like I don't have papers, Like what should

1161
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 3: I do? And the woman said something like, well, don't

1162
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 3: leave the country because if you do, you're not gonna

1163
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 3: be able to come back back in and you should

1164
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 3: apply for a green card. And here's how you can

1165
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 3: do that, which like very standard, normal, like non non

1166
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: criminal behavior. She charged that person with impeding and got

1167
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 3: a conviction out of it. It became a controversial case

1168
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: and she was criticized for it, but she got that

1169
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 3: that was However, a direct conversation with one individual about

1170
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 3: a specific case, AOC talking to a community group full

1171
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 3: of people were talking on Twitter in general about your

1172
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 3: constitutional rights, to me, is crazy. If you want to

1173
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 3: talk about criminal behavior, we should talk about the Home

1174
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 3: and Eric Adams deals, which is still the saga of

1175
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 3: which is still ongoing.

1176
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 4: And let's go to a one. We can put that

1177
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 4: up on the screens. To New York Times headline from Monday,

1178
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 4: which reads, four top New York City officials this's the

1179
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 4: first paragraph, said they would resign after the Justice Department

1180
01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 4: moved to dismiss Mayor Eric Adams corruption case in exchange

1181
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 4: for his help with President Trump's deportation agenda. The four

1182
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 4: officials oversee much of New York City government, and their

1183
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 4: departure is poised to blow a devastating hole in the

1184
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 4: already wounded administration of Mayor Eric Adams. Brian, this is

1185
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 4: actually starting to wound the administration of Governor Kathy Hochel

1186
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 4: as she faces increasing calls to get rid of Eric Adams,

1187
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 4: which is within her power. Yes, I mean Democrats are

1188
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,439
Speaker 4: now increasingly calling on Kathy Hokle to get this guy

1189
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 4: out of there. She has to be careful, obviously, because

1190
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 4: Eric Adams's previous immigration policies were wildly unpopular, not just

1191
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 4: in the city of New York, but around the entire state.

1192
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 4: So she doesn't want to look like she's you know,

1193
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 4: this is retribution for Eric Adams cracking down on a

1194
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 4: legal immigration and assisting the Trump administration on one of

1195
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 4: its most popular policies. On the other hand, he's a

1196
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 4: huge albatrosh Yeah, And.

1197
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 3: The argument for moving him from office is that he

1198
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 3: ran and claimed that he would be carrying out his

1199
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 3: duties and the best interests of the voters who put

1200
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 3: him in office, but instead, in order to stay out

1201
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 3: of prison, he struck a deal with the Trump administration

1202
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 3: to be their lackey. The evidence for that claim comes

1203
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 3: from Tom Holman Adams and who said it. Let's let's

1204
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 3: put d two up this Fox and Friends admission. I mean,

1205
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 3: he doesn't come through towhere.

1206
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 11: If he doesn't come true, I'll be back in New

1207
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 11: York City and we won't be sitting on the couch

1208
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 11: up in his office up up his same word, a

1209
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 11: hell is an agreement we came to So I wanted.

1210
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 4: We're going to deliver before the safety of the people

1211
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 4: of this city.

1212
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 3: And then he but you see Eric Adams there, He's like,

1213
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 3: we're going to deliver for this city, the people of

1214
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 3: New York City. As if we didn't just see him

1215
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 3: say out loud, we we have an agreement and if

1216
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 3: you break it, yeah, I'm gonna be up your butt.

1217
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 4: Yep. Which anyway, well, we can put D three on

1218
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 4: the screen, Eric Adams. This is another New York Times headline.

1219
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 4: It's now up to the judge whether to drop charges

1220
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 4: in the Adams case, so that can is kicked into

1221
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 4: or listen, the ball keep giving the metaphors. Here goes

1222
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 4: into the court of the judge because Emil Bove, the

1223
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 4: acting Deputy Attorney General, made that issue last Monday. So

1224
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,000
Speaker 4: now it goes to the courts. Or by the way,

1225
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 4: Kathy Hokeel could get rid of Eric Adams and a

1226
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 4: lot of this, but obviously it's still going to the

1227
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 4: Trump administration. Well still yeah, the Trump administration still has

1228
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 4: to still be litigated by the Trump administration, or will

1229
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 4: be the backlash of the Trump administration's decision will still

1230
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 4: be litigated. Now, Eric Adams is going to be in

1231
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 4: court today. That's news we learned yesterday talking about all

1232
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 4: of this.

1233
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 3: Now, as viewers of this program know, there is this

1234
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 3: Stephen Donziger alternative go on. So when Donziger as an O.

1235
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 3: If you guys followed our program, you've seen Donziger interviewed.

1236
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 3: He's the Chevron attorney who was prosecuted as part of

1237
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 3: his successful Ecuadorian civil case against Chevron. Chevron then came

1238
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:18,560
Speaker 3: after him criminally back here in the United States. The

1239
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 3: US attorneys saw the evidence that Chevron had compiled and

1240
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 3: declined to go forward with prosecution. Chevron went to the

1241
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 3: judge anyway, and the judge decided to hire a private

1242
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 3: prosecutor who had links to Chevron also and enable that prosecutor,

1243
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 3: this private one, to prosecute on behalf of the government,

1244
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 3: a case that the government itself had said that they

1245
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 3: didn't want to bring. Donziger refused to turn over his

1246
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: documents and his phones, and that such was found in

1247
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 3: contempt and did more than like a year plus or

1248
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 3: so in prison. So of course like that's that is

1249
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 3: a standard that is held for environmental attorneys who win

1250
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 3: victories against Chevron, not for in general mayors. But it

1251
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 3: is a precedent that exists that this judge, if they

1252
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 3: felt like it could appoint, could go to a law

1253
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 3: firm and say, look, I think I've looked at this

1254
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 3: indictment and it's rock solid. Get a private prosecutor. That

1255
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 3: would be funny. What would what would the just Department do? Then?

1256
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 3: Both is on a firing rampage recently, just yesterday asked

1257
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 3: for what's a prosecuting chang I for heard the first.

1258
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 4: Is D six. Yeah, if we put DEI six up

1259
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 4: on the screen. This is another senior US prosecutor resigned

1260
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 4: citing a demand a probe Biden era conduct. This is

1261
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 4: Denise Chung, the supervised criminal cases at the US Attorney's

1262
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 4: Office in Washington, and Gorden Reuter said she had been

1263
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 4: ordered to open a probe into a contract that she

1264
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 4: did not identify and that she believed request was not

1265
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 4: supported by evidence.

1266
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 3: This was about the EPA thing where the e p

1267
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 3: A on the way out. Yes, that's set up. This

1268
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 3: arrangement where nonprofits were going to be executing the Inflation

1269
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 3: Reduction Acts mandates, and so they moved they moved the

1270
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 3: money out. There was a Project Veritas video that came

1271
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 3: out where some Biden person was saying, we're throwing the

1272
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 3: gold bars off the Titanic, as were.

1273
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 4: Which was thinking, it appears that they actually really were.

1274
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 3: Yes, However, lawfully, it's like Congress's Congress appropriated the money

1275
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 3: and directed it to be spent, and their fear was

1276
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 3: that if they didn't spend it, then the next administration

1277
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 3: would block it from being spent, which would undermine Congress

1278
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 3: is you know, uh, lawfully executed appropriations. And so they

1279
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 3: moved them out quickly, and so Chang said, I don't

1280
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 3: think that you have enough to open a grand jury here,

1281
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 3: and then both said, well, then I want your Uh No,

1282
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 3: it wasn't both. It was Martin who said at Martin

1283
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 3: is that I want your resignation. So she tendered it.

1284
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 3: So it did seem like she was willing to work

1285
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 3: with the FBI to try to go to the banks

1286
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 3: to get the money back.

1287
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 4: It's not impossible to me that there was potentially misconduct.

1288
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 4: There should be. Stuff looked into when you know, people

1289
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 4: talking like gold bars off the Titanic. But I think

1290
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 4: actually this brings us to the point that I wanted

1291
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 4: to make, which is this is in a D five.

1292
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 4: Some of this, I think people on the right are

1293
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 4: correct to assume is lit miss tests for loyalists. They're

1294
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 4: sort of looking to push for self deportations. In the

1295
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 4: earliest days of Trump's two point zero doj and byron

1296
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 4: Yorke and The Washington Examiner had a pretty good piece

1297
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 4: walking through what substance of argument there may have been

1298
01:13:55,720 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 4: for dropping the case against Eric Adams, comparing it to

1299
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 4: the overzealous prosecution of Bob McDonald, even Chris Christie. Some

1300
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 4: of this has been bipartisan, by the way, just cases

1301
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 4: that end up going nowhere against politicians. And I think

1302
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 4: this is interesting because Jason Willock in the Washington Post

1303
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 4: wrote on the quote underwhelming charges against Eric Adams, but

1304
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:27,600
Speaker 4: said this was a hugely botched operation by the Trump administration,

1305
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 4: which was making this sort of thin case about election interference,

1306
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:36,679
Speaker 4: that you're not allowed to investigate politicians when the voters

1307
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 4: have the potential to cast ballots about this politician, or

1308
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 4: that this was just about the illegal immigration deal, you know,

1309
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 4: it's more valuable. This is what Emil Bob said in

1310
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 4: a letter that was very widely circulated back and forth

1311
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 4: with Sassoon, who resigned. We covered this last week with Crystal,

1312
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 4: that it was more valuable to get adams cooperation on

1313
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 4: migrant deportations than it was to prosecute him for this crime.

1314
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 4: So a lot of people are right, I think correctly,

1315
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,640
Speaker 4: see the DOJ as a place where a lot of

1316
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:15,759
Speaker 4: career politicians are very hostile to Donald Trump. They're hostile

1317
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 4: to people who are loyalists to Donald Trump, and they

1318
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 4: want to purge the dj of those people. And some

1319
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 4: of these measures are going to be ways that force

1320
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,600
Speaker 4: people to kind of self deport and they have no

1321
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:29,639
Speaker 4: problem with that whatsoever. On the other hand, there's probably

1322
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 4: a legitimate case to be made that this is part

1323
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 4: of a decade plus long pattern of prosecutors at the

1324
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 4: Justice Department putting politicians in the crosshair, and some of

1325
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 4: these cases end up falling apart. The bottom Donald case

1326
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 4: is a really good example. Eric Adams is clearly corrupt.

1327
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 4: There's absolutely no question that Eric Adams is corrupt. There

1328
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,760
Speaker 4: isn't like some Russia Gate thing that's going to be

1329
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 4: unraveled here.

1330
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 3: So was McDonald right, Yeah.

1331
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,560
Speaker 4: I mean is taking yes, but the cases suck, And

1332
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 4: I think that's a legitimate point that then got I

1333
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 4: think unfortunately because of the Trump administration. Doesn't mean the

1334
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 4: media coverage was great, but because of the Trump administration

1335
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 4: lost because it was clearly a partisan move. It was

1336
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 4: clearly about Eric Adams supporting the partisan ends of Donald Trump.

1337
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 4: So you end up in the death spiral once again.

1338
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 4: If you're trying to clean up this Banana Republic death

1339
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 4: spiral in the Justice Department with partisan maneuvers, it doesn't

1340
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 4: end up working, right.

1341
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 3: And what I think is going on here is just

1342
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 3: more gangland stuff where the Trump Justice Department is trying

1343
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 3: to figure out who's going to be unquestionably loyal to Trump,

1344
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 3: and so they came up with a completely unethical and

1345
01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 3: absurd thing for them to do so that which is

1346
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:05,720
Speaker 3: to drop the charges against this guy in exchange for

1347
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 3: him doing your policy bidding, which to somebody who works

1348
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 3: at the Justice Department has gone through all the legal

1349
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,560
Speaker 3: brainwashing about their ethics and brain and brainwashing in a

1350
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 3: good way, I think literal washing like get clean with

1351
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 3: this stuff, like that's you don't do that. Daniel Sisson's

1352
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 3: letter is well said on this, but it's obvious, like

1353
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,679
Speaker 3: that's not how that's not how the Department Justice sees itself.

1354
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 3: So to order the Department Justice to explicitly do that

1355
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 3: is to root out, weed out all of the people

1356
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 3: who have a conscience, and to have left only the

1357
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 3: ones who are like, yeah, I'll do it just in

1358
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 3: the same way that there's a gang initiation to you

1359
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:53,799
Speaker 3: have to go out and you know, shooting innocent civilian.

1360
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 4: I'm sure some people inside the DOJ are frustrated with

1361
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 4: these prosecutions falling apart and appeal and all of that.

1362
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 4: So maybe there are some people, maybe there's some good

1363
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 4: attorneys internally, so Soon actually may have been one of them,

1364
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 4: someone who's stuck around initially who were sort of frustrated

1365
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 4: by these processes and are open to changing them. But yeah,

1366
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 4: like it took what I think is a pretty good

1367
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:24,440
Speaker 4: opportunity to make the case about bipartisan over zealous prosecutions.

1368
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 4: I mean, this goes back to what goes back a

1369
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 4: long time. But you can look at Comy and Martha Stewart,

1370
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 4: like there are just all kinds of examples of this

1371
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 4: stuff going on at the DJ for the FBI too

1372
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 4: for a really long time. So it just this was

1373
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 4: a very very poor partisan way to make the argument,

1374
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 4: and that just isn't encouraging in terms of the Trump

1375
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 4: administration's ability to clean up the DOJ in a way

1376
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 4: that makes it neutral, responsive to the president. But like

1377
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 4: justice should be blind, this just ended up landing in

1378
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 4: a very different way, even though I think one thing

1379
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 4: that's being missed the conversation is that there have been

1380
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 4: and this does appear to be a somewhat over zealous

1381
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 4: prosecution and underwhelming case on the very narrow specific legal question.

1382
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 4: The broader question is he correct. Clearly he is corrupt.

1383
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 12: There's plenty of evidence in the indictment that is plain

1384
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 12: this day on that and in related news, the Trump

1385
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 12: administration just announced that they do not plan to follow

1386
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 12: the Rhode Island federal judges.

1387
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 3: Order that they restart USAID in foreigns service funding. Their

1388
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 3: argument is that you go f off, you know, basically,

1389
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 3: the way that they're couching it in their reply is

1390
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 3: we are going to continue to evaluate on a case

1391
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 3: by case basis. So now it's kind of up to

1392
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 3: that judge who's going to say, okay, well, I made

1393
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 3: my order. How am I going to enforce it? We'll see.

1394
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 4: Let's move on to Lena Khan and other news about

1395
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 4: justice and Trump two point zero. We have a great guest,

1396
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,600
Speaker 4: and we're excited to talk about the big win for

1397
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 4: Lena Khan.

1398
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,799
Speaker 3: Yesterday, all right, stick around for that. Yesterday, Trump's FTC

1399
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 3: chair put out a major new announcement that he was

1400
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 3: going to keep in place the merger guidelines that had

1401
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 3: controversially been put into place originally by Biden's FTC chair

1402
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 3: Lina Khan. You put this first element up on the screen.

1403
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 3: This is This is Andrew Ferguson saying, look, today I'm

1404
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 3: inforido the FTC staff that the twenty three merger guidlands

1405
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 3: are in effect and will serve as the framework for

1406
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 3: agency's merger review analysis. These guidelines build on previous guidelines

1407
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 3: and many decades of case law that stability is important

1408
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 3: for enforcement. Agencies in the business community can roll the

1409
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 3: rest of that so people can read it, pause and

1410
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 3: read it if they're watching. But I wanted to get

1411
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:05,520
Speaker 3: reaction from Doha Mecki, who served as the Biden administration's

1412
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 3: chief in the Anti Trust Division, towards the end, and

1413
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 3: as the deputy chief and the Anti Trust Division through

1414
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 3: I guess most of his tenure and have no you know,

1415
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 3: you've been working with Lenacon for a long time, towards

1416
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 3: towards this day, towards this idea that there would be

1417
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 3: a new bipartisan consensus around anti trust and how the

1418
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 3: government ought to approach mergers. So, first of all, were

1419
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 3: you surprised that Ferguson said, Okay, you know what, we're

1420
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:42,760
Speaker 3: sticking with what Lenikon outlined and then tell us, tell

1421
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:43,719
Speaker 3: us why it matters.

1422
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 13: Sure, So this was not hugely surprising for those of

1423
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 13: us who have worked in and around the anti trust agencies.

1424
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,759
Speaker 3: Once Ferguson became chair, it was a signal that I think.

1425
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 13: It was a great So let me just back up

1426
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 13: and say, you know, I worked in the Anti Trust

1427
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 13: Division of the DOJ on or Barack Obama as a

1428
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 13: career public servant, and I actually worked for Donald Trump's

1429
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 13: first head of the Anti Trust Division, a guy named

1430
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 13: Macan del Raheim, and then had a great honor to

1431
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 13: serve as principal deputy to Jonathan Canter and then ultimately

1432
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 13: lead the Anti Trust Division myself at the end of

1433
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 13: the Biden administration, and so I have seen for a

1434
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 13: very long time this bipartisan role towards an anti trust

1435
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 13: consensus that really prizes going back to first principles. And

1436
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 13: I think that Donald Trump has made a really important

1437
01:22:35,320 --> 01:22:40,080
Speaker 13: down payment in designating Andrew Ferguson chair of the FTC

1438
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 13: and nominating a woman named gil Slater to lead the

1439
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 13: Anti Trust Division of the DOJ. And what I know

1440
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 13: of both of them is that they are fiercely conservative.

1441
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 13: They have a deep fidelity to law, and that means

1442
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 13: going back to statutes, right the text of statutes, going

1443
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 13: back to Supreme Court and appellate procesity, and that's good

1444
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:06,520
Speaker 13: news for the American people. When we drafted the Merger Guidelines,

1445
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 13: which is a process that started in twenty twenty two,

1446
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 13: we undertook a deep review of all of the Supreme

1447
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 13: Court and appellate cases that had ever been decided on

1448
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 13: merger antitrust challenges and attempted to write out a document

1449
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 13: that gave transparency to the business community about how it

1450
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 13: was that we were going to undertake merger analysis. And

1451
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 13: for the first time ever, ever since nineteen sixty eight,

1452
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 13: those guidelines actually cited case law and so on that telling,

1453
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 13: it's not surprised, like vibes.

1454
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 3: Just vibes basically from the Northity Chicago or something.

1455
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 4: There was no citation take case law.

1456
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 13: Even though other guidance documents such as that now withdrawn

1457
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 13: two thousand Competitor Collaboration Guidelines cited law, the merger guidelines

1458
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:59,759
Speaker 13: never did. And so this is a deeply conservative principle.

1459
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:05,679
Speaker 13: There's no anti trust exception to statutory interpretation or judicial

1460
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:10,480
Speaker 13: precedent in antitrust. And so again this is not hugely surprising,

1461
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:15,160
Speaker 13: and I won't necessarily agree with every decision that the

1462
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,639
Speaker 13: new administration makes, but I think this is a really

1463
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 13: important one and a good one.

1464
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 4: Well, even the Federal Society. People associated with Federal Society

1465
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 4: just this week we're looking at the con merger guidelines

1466
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,560
Speaker 4: and saying these are pretty reasonable. So maybe if you

1467
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 4: could tell us just a little bit about some context,

1468
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 4: what were these merger guidelines? What did they do? And

1469
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 4: the second tag along part of that question I have

1470
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 4: is does this send a real chill to the consumer

1471
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 4: welfare standard people on the right. And I'm sure you're

1472
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 4: friends with many of the other people in legal circles

1473
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 4: who have for years been using consumer welfare standard. It's

1474
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,439
Speaker 4: fallen out of fashion in the last decade ish, But

1475
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 4: now when you have a Republican president's FTC look at

1476
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 4: things this way, it seems like a pretty big shift.

1477
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 13: Well, let me go give you some history about merger guidelines.

1478
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,800
Speaker 13: So the first merger guidelines were promulgated in nineteen sixty eight.

1479
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 13: A guy named Don Turner, who led the Anti Trust

1480
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 13: Division then under LBJ, you know, gave a guidance document

1481
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 13: that attempted to distill how it was that the anti

1482
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:28,240
Speaker 13: trust agencies review mergers. You know, for your listeners, there's

1483
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 13: a certain number of mergers, the biggest mergers, highest dollar value,

1484
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 13: that have to be notified to the anti trust agencies

1485
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 13: every year. And so there's a long tradition of providing

1486
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 13: transparency to the public about how it is that the

1487
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 13: agencies decide the legality of mergers. And they've been updated continually.

1488
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 13: Nearly every president has updated the merger guidelines at least

1489
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,679
Speaker 13: at one point in their administration, and that was true

1490
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 13: of the Reagan administration, the Clinton administration, you know, even

1491
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 13: the first Trump administer stration updated something called vertical Merger

1492
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 13: Guidelines that have since been superseded.

1493
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 3: Yes, and that meant layout for people what that meant

1494
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 3: because that it is important.

1495
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's very very important. So, you know, making clear

1496
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 13: that when a merger combines to companies and reduces the

1497
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 13: number of available options for consumers or employers, for workers,

1498
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 13: or any number of ways, that mergers can really threaten competition.

1499
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 13: You know, the guidance documents help the public and the

1500
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:41,600
Speaker 13: business community in particular, can gauge for themselves how it

1501
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:44,679
Speaker 13: is that the agencies are likely to look at that merger.

1502
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 13: And so insofar as the business community was using guidance

1503
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 13: documents as a sort of you know, litmus test for

1504
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 13: what kinds of mergers would be permissible, I think this

1505
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 13: is likely of your very important development for the business community.

1506
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 13: I remember in twenty twenty three when they were released,

1507
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 13: there were the sort of usuals who heavily criticized the

1508
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 13: document and attempted to frame them as radical, which is

1509
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:20,720
Speaker 13: unusual considering that it was very clear what kind of

1510
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 13: case law the agencies.

1511
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 3: How did they change? So like for decades, it seems

1512
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 3: like the merger guideline was including from Obama was cool?

1513
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:29,479
Speaker 4: Do it?

1514
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 13: We don't care, I'm sure those folks would dispute them.

1515
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 3: But they were there though. I mean, what was it

1516
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 3: like to try to flag a merger back then?

1517
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 13: You know, there are ways in which there has been

1518
01:27:45,160 --> 01:27:49,760
Speaker 13: a creep and an increased permissiveness about the kinds of

1519
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 13: mergers that are lawful. And what we saw when we

1520
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 13: came in was that, you know, there were routinely mergers

1521
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 13: bound up by something called consent decrees right settlements that

1522
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 13: ultimately offered no real protection to the public.

1523
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 3: So it will allow this merger if you agree to

1524
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 3: do this thing correct, and then they wouldn't do.

1525
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 13: The thing correct, and facially you would have illegal mergers

1526
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 13: being notified to the agencies. And you know, it raised

1527
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 13: real questions about why these mergers were being proposed in

1528
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:24,559
Speaker 13: the first place. But in these Merger guidelines, we tried

1529
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 13: our best to be very clear, again always summoning the

1530
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 13: law and going back to first principles about when a

1531
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 13: merger might harm workers, when a merger that was new

1532
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 13: to care about workers, you know, you know.

1533
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:37,760
Speaker 4: Rather than consumers.

1534
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 13: They were contemplated in the prior version of the Merger Guidelines,

1535
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 13: But these made it very very clear, right, there was

1536
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 13: no ambiguity about the twenty twenty three merger guidelines. There

1537
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 13: are also problems in digital markets, right big tech mergers

1538
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:01,200
Speaker 13: something called killer acquisitions, you know, platform m mergers.

1539
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 3: That's where a tech company or something goes out and

1540
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 3: buys a competitor and.

1541
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 13: Then shelves it or mothballs it or folds it into

1542
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 13: their existing offerings and kills maybe something that they had

1543
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 13: and development. So there's there's all kinds of ways that

1544
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 13: you can have problematic mergers and digital markets, and there

1545
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 13: was really no framework for thinking about those kinds, or

1546
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 13: no clear framework rather for thinking about how those kinds

1547
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 13: of mergers can harm real people communicators like Facebook.

1548
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,240
Speaker 4: It's not exactly the same thing as a monopoly with

1549
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 4: a hard product.

1550
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 13: Exactly, And that that I think was the absurdity of

1551
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 13: these really old paradigms that haven't existed for a long time.

1552
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:51,200
Speaker 13: I mean, if you're thinking about every merger as you know,

1553
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 13: a widget manufacturer acquiring something or bridging with another widget manufacturer,

1554
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 13: I mean, it's it's it's reallyiculous to think that every

1555
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 13: merger is horizontal or vertical, which are these again technocratic

1556
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 13: terms that just don't mean anything in the modern economy.

1557
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 13: And so I think that these guidelines, again rooted in

1558
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:19,559
Speaker 13: law which should make everybody happy, really attempted to take

1559
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 13: on market realities in the modern market. Right, the way

1560
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 13: ordinary people participate in our market economy was really reflected

1561
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:30,520
Speaker 13: in these merger guidelines.

1562
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 3: And so when you were chief of the Anti Trust Division,

1563
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:38,360
Speaker 3: you put out a number of orders and blocks of

1564
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,600
Speaker 3: mergers that pissed off a lot of powerful people. And

1565
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 3: one of the reactions to that, we talked about this

1566
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 3: on money. We can put this next element up the

1567
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 3: screen when to get your take on it was this

1568
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 3: really wild Brightbart article Biden Anti Trust holdover at Doha.

1569
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 3: Meki continued, woke agenda instead of taking on big tech.

1570
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:00,719
Speaker 3: You know, people can go back and look at our

1571
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 3: Monday piece where we dissect the evidence laid out in

1572
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 3: this bright part piece. So without getting too much into it,

1573
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:12,280
Speaker 3: to go over it again, curious, where do you think

1574
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 3: this came from?

1575
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:15,200
Speaker 4: Like?

1576
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 3: Like what how do like what's going on here?

1577
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:22,840
Speaker 13: You know, it's hard to speculate where these kinds of

1578
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 13: things come from, but I'll say that, you know, when

1579
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 13: I was at the Any Trust Division, we took on

1580
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 13: powerful interests and made clear that they too had to

1581
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:37,800
Speaker 13: obey the law. And it's not at all surprising for

1582
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 13: anyone who's been in our line of work that sometimes

1583
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 13: it can get vitriolic, that sometimes companies can take it personally.

1584
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,559
Speaker 13: And so, you know, I'll leave others to speculate about

1585
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 13: the exact origins. I'll just say that this sort of

1586
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 13: thing is not surprising, right, because big, entrenched, powerful interests

1587
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 13: often you know, says that aren't true, attack you personally.

1588
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 13: And we always took the view when we were running

1589
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 13: the Anti Trust Division that it was our job to

1590
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:14,600
Speaker 13: absorb that kind of blowback, unpleasant as it might be,

1591
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 13: because we were insulating a career staff prosecutors, economists, statisticians,

1592
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:26,719
Speaker 13: paralegals who were doing the really difficult work of holding

1593
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 13: lawbreakers accountable.

1594
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 4: Well, and what's interesting about this, Bright, Well, there are

1595
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:33,560
Speaker 4: many things interesting about the Bridebarn article. But what I

1596
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 4: find interesting is the point I think Ryan was alluding to.

1597
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 4: It sounds like some commshop for a really powerful business

1598
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:46,160
Speaker 4: interest pitched this to Breitbart because you dissect the story

1599
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 4: as a journalist, you're looking at this, they're like, this

1600
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 4: is very thin. It's not a well substantiated story. It

1601
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 4: says at one point quote. None of Macki's actions have

1602
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 4: anything to do with countering big tech. And it singles

1603
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:00,800
Speaker 4: one decision that you made a lot lawsuit just before

1604
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 4: Trump took office. But it looks like a really thin

1605
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 4: piece of opo that was pitched to Breitbart, which sort

1606
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 4: of a lot of conservative media outlets, speaking of somebody

1607
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 4: who's been in conservative media for a long time, have

1608
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 4: that sort of reflex to publish that opo from certain

1609
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 4: com shops that represent business interests. And I guess I'm

1610
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 4: curious if you think that this wedge the business community

1611
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 4: continues to try and drive between like Andrew Ferguson camp

1612
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:32,439
Speaker 4: and your camp. Is it getting more powerful now that

1613
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:37,759
Speaker 4: Elon Musk and other massive CEOs have so much sway

1614
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:40,759
Speaker 4: in the Trump administration and the Republican Party more broadly,

1615
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:44,720
Speaker 4: Or is what Ferguson did just yesterday, just this week

1616
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,960
Speaker 4: early signs about anti trust when the Trump administration? Is

1617
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 4: that a really positive indication actually that this new ideological

1618
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 4: commitment to rethinking por prior standards is real and here

1619
01:33:59,080 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 4: to stay on the right.

1620
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 13: You know, I think there's I've heard sometimes that there's

1621
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 13: a realignment of a kind happening in antitrust and I

1622
01:34:07,560 --> 01:34:09,560
Speaker 13: feel like I've really had a front row seat to

1623
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,200
Speaker 13: some of that because again, I was counseled to Donald

1624
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 13: Trump's first head of the Anty Trust Division and principal

1625
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 13: deputy to Biden's head of the Anty Trust Division before

1626
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:23,440
Speaker 13: leading the institution myself. And this is not at all surprising,

1627
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 13: but it's hugely interesting. I think both parties have a

1628
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 13: sort of factionalism that is playing out, and so many

1629
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 13: people have observed, myself included that when Donald Trump ran

1630
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:40,160
Speaker 13: for president in twenty sixteen, there was an element of

1631
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 13: populism that was real, right, it was very interesting.

1632
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 3: And did you see it evolving in the first Trump administration?

1633
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:52,920
Speaker 14: Absolutely absolutely, as somebody who was working in that, yeah, absolutely,

1634
01:34:53,000 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 14: the Google exactly my past. I saw really bold actions

1635
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 14: that really started to take hold at the end of

1636
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:11,040
Speaker 14: Obama and really started to manifest as departures from traditional

1637
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:16,280
Speaker 14: kind of libertarian orthodoxy. And so that's the Visa Plaid

1638
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 14: merger challenge, the AT and T time Warner merger challenge,

1639
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:24,680
Speaker 14: the filing of the Google Search lawsuit, which is the

1640
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 14: most significant, you know, section two monopolization tech lawsuit since

1641
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:35,960
Speaker 14: Microsoft in nineteen ninety eight, and so you know, even

1642
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:39,600
Speaker 14: in the Democratic Party, there are these forces where you

1643
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,600
Speaker 14: you know, it's not really like center left, you know,

1644
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:48,559
Speaker 14: liberal progressive. I mean, there are interests that really prize

1645
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:53,839
Speaker 14: big powerful corporations and folks who really want to return

1646
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,680
Speaker 14: power to the people. And I see elements of that

1647
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 14: on the right as well. I was listening to a

1648
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 14: podcast Ross doubt Hat and Steve Bannon on his podcast.

1649
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:11,599
Speaker 14: You know, certainly that was not on my bingo card.

1650
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 14: You know, he called himself and neo Randeisian. But I mean, really,

1651
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 14: I think even that doesn't do enough to really surface

1652
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 14: how interesting his commentary was about the techno feudalists. And again,

1653
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 14: I sort of I see this potential factionalism in their

1654
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:36,320
Speaker 14: own party. I see it in conservative organizations. I see

1655
01:36:36,360 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 14: it in the conservative legal movement.

1656
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:42,560
Speaker 13: And so I think that I think it remains to

1657
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 13: be seen how that will play out. But I know

1658
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:50,720
Speaker 13: that there are certain good appointments and decisions that we

1659
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:53,560
Speaker 13: are likely to see, even if they are in contradiction

1660
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 13: with other decisions that the new administration makes.

1661
01:36:56,920 --> 01:37:00,519
Speaker 3: And Lena Khan herself comments that on this also. She

1662
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 3: said the twenty twenty three merger guidelines emphasize fidelity to

1663
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:07,919
Speaker 3: law reflect modern market realities, and are increasingly being adopted

1664
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 3: by courts. Good to see bipartisan commitment to rigorous analysis

1665
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 3: for policing mergers, and bipartisan commitment, I think is a

1666
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 3: key term there. When we talked about this on Monday

1667
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 3: with Sager, one of the points he made it is like, look,

1668
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 3: if you think that the right is going to get

1669
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 3: credit the left here, then you're being naive here. It's

1670
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 3: not going to happen. On the other hand, you do

1671
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 3: have people like Hawley, Ted Cruz, even to some extent

1672
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:39,120
Speaker 3: jd Vance saying nice things about Lena Kahan. So I'm

1673
01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 3: curious and how much you can tell us about this,

1674
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:46,519
Speaker 3: how much Cross, how much bipartisan work is being done

1675
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 3: to forge a coalition, because for forty years or so,

1676
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 3: there was a bipartisan consensus whereby no matter which party one,

1677
01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,839
Speaker 3: whether it was Reagan or Clinton or whoever Bush Obama,

1678
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 3: the approach to anti trust and labor to some degree

1679
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 3: was going to be roughly the same. You'd have three

1680
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 3: Democrats on the panel and two on two Republicans they'd switch.

1681
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 3: You'd have three Republicans and two Democrats. But the decisions

1682
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:17,560
Speaker 3: that would come through the various commissions a FTC and

1683
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:21,519
Speaker 3: others would be basically the same. And I know that

1684
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 3: there's been some effort to make that the case, but

1685
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:27,760
Speaker 3: in reverse, yeah, that there would be a bipartisan consensus

1686
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 3: that actually, know, the populist approach is the one we're

1687
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:36,200
Speaker 3: going to do. Then, whether it's Hawley or Warren or

1688
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:41,400
Speaker 3: Sanders or so, how much actual coordination is there? Are

1689
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 3: you guys do you agree and you kind of are

1690
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 3: moving in your separate lanes forward or are you guys talking?

1691
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:51,519
Speaker 13: You know, when I was at the Anti Trust Division,

1692
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 13: I made it a point to go into explicitly conservative

1693
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:01,200
Speaker 13: spaces to talk about why ant high trust matters for

1694
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 13: people of all stripes. And I always felt like I

1695
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:08,120
Speaker 13: had a warm welcome in those places. You know, whether

1696
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:13,440
Speaker 13: folks on the right will ultimately credit you know, Democrats,

1697
01:39:14,360 --> 01:39:19,559
Speaker 13: liberals others for you know, intellectual contributions to that movement,

1698
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:21,600
Speaker 13: I just think that misses the point, right, It's not

1699
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 13: really about credit. Right, The American people are suffering. I

1700
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 13: saw that firsthand. And when I went out and talked

1701
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 13: to farmers right or invited in ranchers from South Dakota,

1702
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 13: I wasn't thinking about, oh, well, this is a red state.

1703
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 13: I was thinking about, these are my fellow Americans, and

1704
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:43,840
Speaker 13: they're being screwed over by powerful corporate interests, by you know,

1705
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 13: the oligarchs of whatever industry, right, including agriculture, and so

1706
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 13: that really means something to people, and I think that's

1707
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 13: the important thing, right, working towards a new consensus. Again,

1708
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,240
Speaker 13: I think it remains to be seen whether we ultimately

1709
01:39:59,320 --> 01:40:02,560
Speaker 13: get there, but I think we're seeing movement and progress

1710
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:04,960
Speaker 13: and this is a really exciting thing to watch.

1711
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 3: Well, do thanks for joining us, you seriously thank you

1712
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 3: do an impressive job covering up your wok agenda. Yes,

1713
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 3: I couldn't even tell you the sumhere.

1714
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:17,840
Speaker 4: Hartbert said that you quoted Dubois and this is your

1715
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 4: woke agendas. You were approvingly quoting one of the pre

1716
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 4: eminent black intellectuals.

1717
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they described him as black.

1718
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:28,200
Speaker 4: Ye, black Marxist thinker, I think is what It's all

1719
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 4: Very absurd, very absurd. We appreciate thank you all.

1720
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 3: Right, up next, speaking of Welke this, we've got a

1721
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 3: little Dave Chappelle segment. Stick around for that.

1722
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 4: Well, Dave Chappelle is putting Saturday Night live on Blast

1723
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:45,880
Speaker 4: actually during the big fiftieth anniversary celebration week of all times,

1724
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 4: we can go ahead and put this element up on

1725
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:51,160
Speaker 4: the screen. He alleged in a recent comedy set, according

1726
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:55,639
Speaker 4: to a journalist who was there, that SNL producers told

1727
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:57,639
Speaker 4: him he could not talk about Gaza and he could

1728
01:40:57,680 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 4: not talk about transgenderism when he hosted the show. I

1729
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:05,720
Speaker 4: think it was last fall, somewhere around the election, and

1730
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,320
Speaker 4: Dave Chappelle. This is described in the Deadline article that's

1731
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,240
Speaker 4: up on the screen as sort of a quote shocking

1732
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 4: instance of potential censorship. I believe he ended up and

1733
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:17,760
Speaker 4: I think Deadline notes this talking about Palestine in that

1734
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:21,160
Speaker 4: show and went fairly viral for it. But the idea

1735
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 4: is that he wasn't supposed to, like wait, into those

1736
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 4: controversial topics. It is a pretty interesting allegation against Saturday

1737
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:35,040
Speaker 4: Night Live. Ryan Chappelle has obviously become really popular on

1738
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:38,240
Speaker 4: the right. I mean he's always been popular with actually everyone,

1739
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:40,600
Speaker 4: probably more popular with the left than the right in

1740
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 4: the past, but he's always been popular with everyone likes

1741
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:45,800
Speaker 4: this to know, he's a man. But he's gotten a

1742
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:47,799
Speaker 4: lot of traction on the right because he's been willing

1743
01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:51,559
Speaker 4: over the last half decade plus to from a position

1744
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 4: of the left say some things about like trans ideology,

1745
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 4: whether it's like locker rooms bathrooms that the right really

1746
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 4: approves of. No, he's saying SNL didn't want to talk

1747
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:04,320
Speaker 4: want him to talk about Gaza from the left or

1748
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:06,799
Speaker 4: trans issues from the right. Sort of interesting.

1749
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:09,200
Speaker 3: It's funny. You remember we used to have a deal

1750
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 3: that if I made you talk about an Israel block, yes,

1751
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:17,080
Speaker 3: then you would make me talk about a trans block

1752
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:20,640
Speaker 3: because that was you know, several years ago, whenever we

1753
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:24,639
Speaker 3: launched this program, Like those were the two like most

1754
01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:27,400
Speaker 3: most difficult issues for each of us to talk about.

1755
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 3: Navigator right to navigate in a way that it's sensitive. Yeah,

1756
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 3: So he and he talks about he said, he's speaking

1757
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,800
Speaker 3: directly to Trump and he's like, look, you know you

1758
01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 3: need to take this seriously. You know, the whole world's

1759
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:43,240
Speaker 3: counting on you. You know, even the people that hate

1760
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 3: you counting on you. And he said, whether whether it's

1761
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 3: the people in the Palisades or the people in Palestine,

1762
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,920
Speaker 3: you know you got to treat them with dignity, and

1763
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 3: also clearly making a reference to Trump's musing about ethnically

1764
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:02,200
Speaker 3: cleansing the higher region, saying, come on, man, like, what

1765
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:04,960
Speaker 3: are you doing? Like ridiculous?

1766
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:07,639
Speaker 4: Well, when he said that wasn't it? It was before

1767
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 4: Trump rolled out the Gaza plan, I thought it was

1768
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 4: what was it? I thought it was back around the fall.

1769
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,280
Speaker 3: Oh, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1770
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,120
Speaker 4: Either way, that's that's right, that's right. Sort always bet

1771
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:22,160
Speaker 4: on the table. But yes, so did you catch by

1772
01:43:22,160 --> 01:43:24,240
Speaker 4: the way you have Saturday Night Lives fiftieth anniversary.

1773
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:25,800
Speaker 3: Not much they did watch.

1774
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,320
Speaker 4: I did watch. Some of it was pretty good. They

1775
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 4: did a great, shockingly good uh. In memoriam for all

1776
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 4: of their politically incorrect sketches over the years, they had

1777
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 4: to blur out. One of the jokes is they had

1778
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:42,560
Speaker 4: to blur out every time someone in SNL did like

1779
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:44,240
Speaker 4: a version of blackface.

1780
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 3: Rolled the like pretty often Tommy fallon there or it

1781
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:52,720
Speaker 3: was his somewhere else. I thought Jimmy Kimmel was Jimmy Kimmel.

1782
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:54,600
Speaker 4: Jimmy Kimmel is the Yeah, I don't want to.

1783
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 3: I don't want to libel anybody on slandering you just.

1784
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:59,479
Speaker 4: Did was offensive to the Irish, even though you are Irish.

1785
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I can say it, but.

1786
01:44:02,439 --> 01:44:06,960
Speaker 4: Anyway, it's I think the I guess from Saturday Night

1787
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 4: Live's perspective. If I'm Saturday Night Live and I bring

1788
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 4: Dave Chappelle on the show, the benefit of Dave Chappelle

1789
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:14,240
Speaker 4: is just letting Dave Chapelle do Dave Chappelle.

1790
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 3: If you if you invite Dave Chapelle, just let him,

1791
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:17,760
Speaker 3: let him rip.

1792
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:20,640
Speaker 4: Literally, don't edit anything. Just give him a microphone on

1793
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 4: the stake, say your prayers and.

1794
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 3: Let it go. Yeah, and he's just and he's gonna

1795
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:26,720
Speaker 3: nark you out anyway.

1796
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 4: Which appears to be exactly what happened. So I mean, listen,

1797
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,760
Speaker 4: it's it's interesting that to me, it's interesting that Chappelle's

1798
01:44:35,200 --> 01:44:37,320
Speaker 4: SNL appearance I think at this point was a couple

1799
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:39,000
Speaker 4: of months ago, because to me, it just seems like

1800
01:44:39,080 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 4: the culture has shifted so much in the last couple

1801
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 4: of months, like the last month in particular, that like

1802
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:47,799
Speaker 4: vibe shift that people sensed when Trump I think, especially

1803
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:51,280
Speaker 4: after Donald Trump was almost assassinated and you started to

1804
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 4: see different figures in pop culture come out and say

1805
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,040
Speaker 4: they were pro Trump, and you started to see his

1806
01:44:56,240 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 4: campaign doing really well, it looked like there was something

1807
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:03,599
Speaker 4: under the surface where culture was about to just kind

1808
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 4: of accept Trump and a lot of people were going

1809
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:08,200
Speaker 4: to be just more open to him. Joe Rogan comes on,

1810
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:10,920
Speaker 4: endorses him, Dana White starts campainting with him, and all

1811
01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:15,439
Speaker 4: of that. It's just interesting to see how SNL was

1812
01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 4: thinking of it, even just not that long ago, because

1813
01:45:19,120 --> 01:45:21,080
Speaker 4: I'm not sure I don't know how different that would

1814
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:22,800
Speaker 4: be if he were to come back in host like

1815
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 4: next week.

1816
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:25,679
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're right, that was that was a previous

1817
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 3: bit that I was thinking of.

1818
01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:29,920
Speaker 4: It's a good but a very good Yeah, this must

1819
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 4: have been January, Yeah, because it was Yeah, I think

1820
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 4: he hosted right in the new year, and he was yes.

1821
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:42,639
Speaker 3: And because he's from Ohio, you know, and hangs out

1822
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 3: around there, he's always seemed to have his finger on

1823
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:50,679
Speaker 3: the pulse a little bit more than you know, probably

1824
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 3: a lot of the other people over at Sunday Live.

1825
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is he was referring to his when he

1826
01:45:54,439 --> 01:46:02,559
Speaker 4: hosted the show in January. So yeah, he he really said, well,

1827
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:04,360
Speaker 4: this is how he ended the San Francisco set, by

1828
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 4: the way, he said, give the Jews a break free

1829
01:46:05,920 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 4: Palestine before literally dropping the mic. According to the reporter

1830
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:12,439
Speaker 4: at San Francisco Gate who was actually there, and this

1831
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:16,240
Speaker 4: is where he said to Trump and the monologue back

1832
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 4: in January, well, please do better next time. Do not

1833
01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 4: forget your humanity, and please have empathy for displaced people,

1834
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:27,160
Speaker 4: whether they're in Palisades or in Palestine. He also said,

1835
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,720
Speaker 4: I'm tired of being controversial. I'm trying to turn over

1836
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 4: a new leaf. It was way too soon to try

1837
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 4: to joke about a catastrophe like that. This one hits

1838
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:36,800
Speaker 4: close to home. So it was a I mean, it

1839
01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 4: was a really good monologue. But he's now accusing us

1840
01:46:40,240 --> 01:46:42,240
Speaker 4: and ill of censoring it, literally, of censoring it.

1841
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:45,560
Speaker 3: Although it's live. He could do whatever he wants. What

1842
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:46,120
Speaker 3: are they gonna do?

1843
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:47,280
Speaker 4: He probably wants to get paid.

1844
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:48,680
Speaker 3: Do you get paid for that?

1845
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 4: I'm sure?

1846
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,560
Speaker 3: What do you think one of those things you just

1847
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 3: do because it's like an promotion?

1848
01:46:54,320 --> 01:46:55,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, who knows?

1849
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:57,240
Speaker 3: The super Bowl? Do you get paid for the Super

1850
01:46:57,240 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 3: Bowl halftime show?

1851
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:02,320
Speaker 4: No idea, I'm sure you it's something other than publicity.

1852
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 3: They got to pay your dancers at least.

1853
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should be entertainment lawyers next career anyway. Interesting

1854
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 4: tibet from Dave Chappelle that. You know, we talked earlier

1855
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:16,160
Speaker 4: about how little covers there was of this wild Miami

1856
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:22,479
Speaker 4: beach shooting. It's just there. I'm just wondering, Ryan, with

1857
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:26,439
Speaker 4: the democratization of media like drop site for example, drop

1858
01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:31,200
Speaker 4: Site's doing so well, how much longer Meati gets away

1859
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 4: with sort of being able to own the narrative on

1860
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:36,439
Speaker 4: these topics because Dave Chapelle is going to put you

1861
01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 4: on blast. He feels comfortable, he feels like there's a

1862
01:47:39,200 --> 01:47:43,960
Speaker 4: permission structure culturally now where he lived. Yeah, he's okay,

1863
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:44,640
Speaker 4: he made it.

1864
01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:46,719
Speaker 3: Have a T shirt.

1865
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:50,400
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, anyway, on that note, thank you so much

1866
01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:53,320
Speaker 4: for tuning in to today's edition of Counterpoints. Reminder, go

1867
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:56,360
Speaker 4: to breakingpoints dot com to subscribe for a premium membership

1868
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 4: of the show. You get the whole thing, write your

1869
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:01,519
Speaker 4: inbox every day without any commercial breaks ad breaks on

1870
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:06,560
Speaker 4: YouTube or podcast platforms. So we appreciate everybody for tuning in.

1871
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:09,120
Speaker 4: Appreciate you for subscribing, Thanks for tuning in.

1872
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 3: See you guys soon.