Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The Mark mo Show,
Speaker 1: where of course we're always talking about bitcoin. We're talking
Speaker 1: about cryptocurrencies, we're talking about the decentralized revolution that is coming.
Speaker 1: It's the most important part of your week. You should
Speaker 1: tune in with me each and every week. Make sure
Speaker 1: to grab your phone, put a calendar reminder right now
Speaker 1: for the station that you're listening to this time, and
Speaker 1: I'll be back with you each and every week. Now,
Speaker 1: today I have something special. I'm sitting down in the
Speaker 1: studio with my good friend Peter McCormick. You've probably heard
Speaker 1: of him. He runs the biggest podcast in bitcoin, What
Speaker 1: Bitcoin Did? You should definitely be checking out, And I
Speaker 1: recorded a monster episode with him um yesterday, so stay
Speaker 1: tuned for that coming out. But Peter, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for sitting down with me today. Look, thanks for having
Speaker 1: me Mark. I told you I don't like being a guest,
Speaker 1: but I was very happy to have you on my
Speaker 1: show yesterday. That bols a monst the show. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to get that out. Yeah, I can't wait to
Speaker 1: get that out as well. It was It was fun
Speaker 1: because it was a thesis that I've been working on
Speaker 1: and i've presented to a camera talking on a YouTube
Speaker 1: video gets very lonely, like you're just talking to a
Speaker 1: camera all the time. There's like no if you back,
Speaker 1: and I've done it on stage once or twice. But
Speaker 1: to be able to like discuss it was was super cool. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna start a chain of sessions we're
Speaker 1: gonna do now. I already know the next one we're
Speaker 1: gonna make following up from that. I can see us
Speaker 1: doing this every six months now, which will be great
Speaker 1: because I think you are an absolute gem and I
Speaker 1: think the knowledge you've brought with this thesis you've got incredible.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Thanks Peter. I appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and I would also, you know, say the same compliment
Speaker 1: you as well. Um you know your interviews. I've been
Speaker 1: listened to him for a long time. I think you've
Speaker 1: done like four hundred episodes or something. I think it's
Speaker 1: so several years, and I love I love your approach
Speaker 1: because you're so curious with your questions and so um
Speaker 1: you know, you ask questions that I don't typically think of,
Speaker 1: and I think it's been really good. So i'd recommend
Speaker 1: everyone listen to that. But I want to dig in
Speaker 1: a little bit. I mean, you've been doing this for
Speaker 1: like four years now talking about bitcoin, um, and you've
Speaker 1: been traveling all over the world. I guess, uh, you've
Speaker 1: probably learned a lot from talking to these people. One
Speaker 1: of the things that I think, I like to think
Speaker 1: of bitcoin is like a bait and switch. People come
Speaker 1: in on the price I want to get rich, and
Speaker 1: then we get to the bait and then we get
Speaker 1: switched into going dang, like this is like a technology
Speaker 1: that could like give us freedom or like in the
Speaker 1: state or like things like that. Do you see it
Speaker 1: like something like that? Yeah, I do. I do. I
Speaker 1: think about it like in terms of my life, there's
Speaker 1: like before bitcoin and after bitcoin, which you know it
Speaker 1: sounds a little bit cringe or hyperbolic, but um, I
Speaker 1: think when you start to understand money, and you start
Speaker 1: to understand your relationship with money, it starts to affect
Speaker 1: your relationship with other parts of your life. Historically, before bitcoin,
Speaker 1: I I would say I was one financially literate and
Speaker 1: to financially irresponsible. I've always had good jobs and own
Speaker 1: good money, but I was never really good at conserving
Speaker 1: my capital or deployed particularly well. And I've learned a
Speaker 1: very painful lesson in my first year in bitcoin. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was traded bitcoin also of trading all coins,
Speaker 1: and I made and lost a lot of money very quickly,
Speaker 1: and it was a very painful lesson. But I had
Speaker 1: to kind of do a three six at that point
Speaker 1: and think, Okay, I don't want to do this again.
Speaker 1: This is painful. So I spent time going down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. I tried to conserve my capital with bitcoin
Speaker 1: and doing that that kind of brought a whole shift
Speaker 1: to a number of elements of my life in terms
Speaker 1: of thinking about the future and what I want out
Speaker 1: of life. So I just think, what it does? It?
Speaker 1: You know, it teaches you about time preference, something safety.
Speaker 1: He talks about a lot um and that time preference
Speaker 1: thing isn't just a financial thing. It's affects every aspect
Speaker 1: of your alive and then secondary for that and it does.
Speaker 1: This doesn't get everyone, but it has for me. It's
Speaker 1: pushed me closer to thinking about how the world works, governance, democracy, freedom,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I've been you know, not as much as
Speaker 1: some bitcoins, but I've certainly been pushed down that rabbit
Speaker 1: hole just thinking a lot about how the world is
Speaker 1: and how the kind of world we want to live in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh, it is. It's kind of a bait and
Speaker 1: switch on that way too. It coming in to make yeah,
Speaker 1: coming in to get rich. And then I mean, you're
Speaker 1: stay for the revolution, stay for the revolution. But the
Speaker 1: it's the education revolution, right, It's got all these people
Speaker 1: like interested. I wanted to talk about that. The very
Speaker 1: first show that I did on the station is UM.
Speaker 1: I had Alex Gladstin on, and the reason why I
Speaker 1: had him on is I said, look, the first thing
Speaker 1: I want to talk about is not money. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about human rights. Yes, and I want to
Speaker 1: establish that that's what we're talking about on this show. However,
Speaker 1: of course I still talk about the price on the show,
Speaker 1: because it's the bait and switch. And so we saw
Speaker 1: this week bitcoin's price dipped all the way back down
Speaker 1: to where it was a few weeks ago. Um. The
Speaker 1: new variant, I guess is spook in the markets and
Speaker 1: bitcoins price dip. Is that something that you pay attention to.
Speaker 1: I mean I pay attention to price of course, because
Speaker 1: of my net wealth is in bitcoin, probably more now,
Speaker 1: maybe closer to you know, if you take away my
Speaker 1: assets like my house and my car, it's pretty much
Speaker 1: everything is in bitcoin. So I do pay attention to price.
Speaker 1: But also if you I talked about this with someone
Speaker 1: previously that once you've done four years in bitcoin, it
Speaker 1: becomes easy. It's like your's your first tour of duty
Speaker 1: that starts. Your hands get stronger. Yeah, your hands get stronger,
Speaker 1: and then price affects you less because one you've experienced it,
Speaker 1: but hopefully you've been through one of those ten x five,
Speaker 1: ten x periods. So even though the total number dip
Speaker 1: is quite significant, you should be in a better financial position.
Speaker 1: So I pay attention to price, and I do get
Speaker 1: wrapped up in the excitement when the price runs up,
Speaker 1: but I also try to kind of bring myself back
Speaker 1: and say, well, what does this actually mean? You know,
Speaker 1: what does this mean for other people? But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's hard not to get caught up in
Speaker 1: price sometimes. And you know what the interesting on the
Speaker 1: price right now, it's about the same price it was
Speaker 1: in February, which was like, huh really, So if you
Speaker 1: told me that it was a bit of a surprise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we haven't had a lot of traction this year. I
Speaker 1: mean we jumped from I think we started the year
Speaker 1: thirty thousand, so we're almost double. But I mean it
Speaker 1: jumped really quickly to February to your point, right, and
Speaker 1: we've kind of fallen back down. By the way. You're
Speaker 1: listening to the Mark mar Show, and of course we're
Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin, and I'm sitting in the studio with
Speaker 1: with Peter McCormick for what bitcoin did. Check him out.
Speaker 1: Now we're talking about bitcoin, obviously we're talking about the
Speaker 1: price action. Um. I try to not get too excited
Speaker 1: when the price goes up because I don't want to
Speaker 1: get too excited when it goes up, because I don't
Speaker 1: want to feel like the press when it comes down.
Speaker 1: I constantly say that the price is a distraction, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're in it for the education, the revolution,
Speaker 1: the technology, whatever, the price is just a distraction. I say,
Speaker 1: there's two things that we should really be focusing on,
Speaker 1: not the price. The things we should be focused on
Speaker 1: one and in a new technology, we'd focus on the
Speaker 1: the growth of the network metcast law. Is the network
Speaker 1: expanding and to the development on the network is the
Speaker 1: is the network growing? Is the development happening on the
Speaker 1: network and I think as long as those two things
Speaker 1: continue to grow, then the price takes care of itself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's been happening. I mean, we had a massive
Speaker 1: upgrade to the network, we say with top proods something
Speaker 1: I don't understand fully what it's about, but I'm aware
Speaker 1: of what it brings to the network. We have, interestingly,
Speaker 1: a growing investment in developers in the network. We have
Speaker 1: a decentralization of the developers in the network with you know,
Speaker 1: historically a lot of developers are based out in the US,
Speaker 1: but John Newbery created a brink in the UK to
Speaker 1: support open source derev where a lot of the companies
Speaker 1: have started investing in supporting open sourced coin base, even
Speaker 1: did it um. So that's for me, that reassures me
Speaker 1: that that there are people out there who care for
Speaker 1: the network, care that there's enough developers and ensuring that
Speaker 1: we have this kind of decentralized base of developers. So
Speaker 1: that's super important. But I also agreed, like growth of
Speaker 1: the network and in growth in the network comes with
Speaker 1: a couple of things. There's obviously the amount of people
Speaker 1: are buying and accumulating bitcoin and holding it, which is
Speaker 1: super important, but also just this general awareness that's happening
Speaker 1: with bitcoin, whether it's the institutional adoption, whether it's whether
Speaker 1: it's the media reporting and good or bad. The growth
Speaker 1: in podcast I mean, there's so many podcasts now, so
Speaker 1: that all the things that sit outside of bitcoin itself
Speaker 1: that adds to the network, that support its growth, that
Speaker 1: support the education is also that's super important. And this
Speaker 1: last year, I mean it's funny. It's mark you can
Speaker 1: go online almost every day and see a story which
Speaker 1: is the kind of story four years ago which would
Speaker 1: have had read it going absolutely wild. And we kind
Speaker 1: of stories like that every day. It might be a
Speaker 1: bank in Thailand, it might be an institution in the US,
Speaker 1: it might be what's happening in El Salvador. But there's
Speaker 1: big news constantly happening with bitcoin. And you know, we
Speaker 1: talked about yesterday and you took you know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: the network takes, you know, a period to get to
Speaker 1: ten percent, and the time it takes the ten percent,
Speaker 1: it's the same period it goes from ten to ninety.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're about to do that ten to ninety. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So we have the growth of the network,
Speaker 1: like the user base, so that's the Metcalf's lots like
Speaker 1: Dublin is becoming more valuable. And then the development, as
Speaker 1: you said, there's all these people developing. We have all
Speaker 1: these companies developing. This week we had big news of
Speaker 1: maybe an even bigger development happening. And one thing is
Speaker 1: it's the growth of the network, the development, but also
Speaker 1: the mind share that's being sucked into it. We had
Speaker 1: the c foe of Ray Dalio's Bridgewater Capital leave Bridgewater Capital,
Speaker 1: the biggest hedge fund, to go work at a bitcoin company.
Speaker 1: And we had a bigger announcement this week which I
Speaker 1: want to share with you in just a minute. By
Speaker 1: the way, you're listening to the Mark mo Show. We're
Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin, cryptocurrencies in the decentralized Revolution. I'm in
Speaker 1: the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick from the
Speaker 1: host of What Bitcoin Did, and we're talking about ignore
Speaker 1: the price. It's a distraction, but there's two bigger things
Speaker 1: that you should focus on. There was big news this
Speaker 1: week that just broke. I want to discuss when we
Speaker 1: come back from a break. So don't go away, all right,
Speaker 1: welcome back. You are listening to the markma Show, and
Speaker 1: we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, each and every week
Speaker 1: we're talking about cryptocurrencies. We're talking about the de centralized revolution.
Speaker 1: And I'm in the studio with a special guest, my
Speaker 1: good friend Peter McCormick. He's the host of What Bitcoin Did,
Speaker 1: probably the biggest bitcoin only podcast. You should be checking
Speaker 1: it out for sure. I was just on their last
Speaker 1: night recording, so make sure it tuned on that. Now.
Speaker 1: Before the break, we were talking about how the price
Speaker 1: of bitcoin it's down a little bit, all the way
Speaker 1: down to where it was a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: And I was saying, how the bitcoin price is a distraction.
Speaker 1: I think it is the short term prices distraction. We
Speaker 1: want to look at the growth of the network and
Speaker 1: the development of the network. Now, I was teasing that
Speaker 1: there was some big news this week, and that is
Speaker 1: that the CEO of Twitter, Jack Dorsey, stepped down. Um,
Speaker 1: we don't know all the details of that, but he
Speaker 1: stepped down and he's running Square, which he's now rebranded
Speaker 1: from Square to Block. And then he had Square Crypto,
Speaker 1: which was a company that I think helps the bitcoin
Speaker 1: ecosystem grow. They rebranded that to Spiral and the news
Speaker 1: says that Spiral is going to be now funding open
Speaker 1: source dev for bitcoin, and he wanted to change the
Speaker 1: name because he don't want to say crypto. He just
Speaker 1: wanted to be bitcoin only and development on the network,
Speaker 1: stealing some of the best mind share in the world
Speaker 1: to come work to dedicate the rest of his career.
Speaker 1: It seems like on bitcoin, I mean, you gotta be
Speaker 1: bullish on that. Yeah, I mean, I think it's something
Speaker 1: that's been coming or for quite some time. Jack, as
Speaker 1: the CEO of Twitter has it could take a lot
Speaker 1: of flak over this last year or two, specifically with
Speaker 1: regards to censorship on Twitter. And I think there's a
Speaker 1: couple of things that play here. I'm only guessing. I
Speaker 1: can't answer for him. But firstly, whilst he's the CEO,
Speaker 1: there is a board, and there's a management team within
Speaker 1: the company, and the company has a share prize, and
Speaker 1: I think internally there's two pressures. Firstly, it's monetization of Twitter.
Speaker 1: Twitter has always kind of put monetization to the back.
Speaker 1: Whilst it's you know, it does bring in significant revenues,
Speaker 1: it's been way behind something, for example, like Facebook, but
Speaker 1: for the benefit of Twitter, I think of Twitter is
Speaker 1: more like the tortoise and Facebook as the hair. Now
Speaker 1: Facebook is facing the situation when nobody really trusts it.
Speaker 1: No one trusts Huckerberg, and I don't. I don't really
Speaker 1: know the long term position of Facebook is because most
Speaker 1: people I talked it, they're like, I don't really use
Speaker 1: it anymore. I know the kids don't use it. So
Speaker 1: I think he's done a really good job of being
Speaker 1: a steward of Twitter and making sure he doesn't ruin
Speaker 1: the it doesn't ruin the experience of Twitter by filling
Speaker 1: in it with commercial opportunities. I can imagine there is
Speaker 1: some pressure internally to expand the commercial revenue opportunities with Twitter,
Speaker 1: and that may be to the detriment of the experience.
Speaker 1: We've just seen now on my Twitter, Like every time
Speaker 1: there's a tweet, you're going to read the replies, there's
Speaker 1: always an ad there now, and it's just annoying. It
Speaker 1: ruins the experience. So I think that's one pressure. But
Speaker 1: I think the censorship one is a big issue. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of people concerned that the leader of
Speaker 1: the free world, Donald Trump, could be removed from Twitter.
Speaker 1: How he was. I won't get into the what I
Speaker 1: think of that, but there's also been a lot of Yeah,
Speaker 1: there has been a lot of action on Twitter in
Speaker 1: terms of like people being censored or removed for sharing opinions,
Speaker 1: you know, having thoughts discussed some particular topics, you know,
Speaker 1: specifically one with the election and two with COVID. I
Speaker 1: don't think Jack likes this, but I don't think he
Speaker 1: gets to control every decision within the company. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, is he in it for the money. He
Speaker 1: doesn't need the money. So I think he's such a
Speaker 1: mission driven person. He's realized the best impact he can
Speaker 1: now have on the wall it is with freedom money,
Speaker 1: and it was with bitcoin, and now he's focused on
Speaker 1: that and he's going to work on that, and I
Speaker 1: salute that. I'm a big fan of Jack, so I
Speaker 1: think of him as a proper bitcoin Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a that's that's a good insight into that. By the way,
Speaker 1: you're listening to the Markma Show, we're talking about bitcoin.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Peter McCormick, the host of What
Speaker 1: Bitcoin Did, and we're talking about how bitcoin is sucking
Speaker 1: in some of the greatest mind share in the world.
Speaker 1: And Jack Dorsey, who's built some amazing companies with Square
Speaker 1: and Twitter has now left to go work on bitcoin
Speaker 1: full time. I was saying last night we were talking about, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the direction of the world. Things aren't looking
Speaker 1: so bright in the short term. I think they're right
Speaker 1: in the long term. And I made a comment, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm bullish on what happens when millions of entrepreneurs backs
Speaker 1: are up against the ball. And Jack is one of
Speaker 1: those entrepreneurs, and so, um, you know, you have all
Speaker 1: these people that are like we call them no coiners,
Speaker 1: right or crypto people, and they're like, I think bitcoin's scam.
Speaker 1: I think bitcoin's ridiculous. I think bitcoin's pondsy. Bitcoin is
Speaker 1: never gonna go in whatever it is, right, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you smarter than Jack Dorsey? Are you smarter than
Speaker 1: Michael Sailor? Like? Do you put yourself there? I certainly don't.
Speaker 1: I'm humble enough to recognize that. You know, we're all
Speaker 1: geniuses in different ways. But when you see someone like
Speaker 1: Jack at Dorsey leave to go work on bitcoin, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's got to be reassuring, at least for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally reassuring. Look, I mean he has the luxury of
Speaker 1: being able to work on whatever he wants. Not everybody
Speaker 1: has that, But why would he choose that? If that's
Speaker 1: he can do anything he wants. Well, I mean I
Speaker 1: think he's mission driven. What he realized is that important? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he realized it's important. He's mission driven. You know,
Speaker 1: he's clearly somebody has a conscience. He clearly has empathy
Speaker 1: in the world. You can see where he supports projects
Speaker 1: and where he puts money towards and he does a
Speaker 1: lot of that while in the face of having a
Speaker 1: huge amount of critics. Um, I just think there's like
Speaker 1: when he comes down to bitcoin versus say, all coins,
Speaker 1: I think it comes down to do you care? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you care about? You know? Because bitcoin is
Speaker 1: a chance to make money, but it's also a mission.
Speaker 1: Like we had a long, deep conversation and that has
Speaker 1: had a profound effect on me. I can't stop thinking
Speaker 1: about it, and it's made me realize the mission here
Speaker 1: is that if we do this, if we separate money
Speaker 1: and state, we create this great form of decentralized money,
Speaker 1: the impact on the world could be profound. It can
Speaker 1: take us away from a very scary outcome that's happening
Speaker 1: now where we are sliding towards totalitarianism across the world
Speaker 1: in places where you wouldn't exist in places that talk
Speaker 1: about freedom, like the US is meant to be the
Speaker 1: front lines of freedom, and Boris Johnson talks about the
Speaker 1: UK being a bastion of freedom. Not really, we are
Speaker 1: slipping into totalitarianism. So yeah, bitcoin is one of the
Speaker 1: most powerful weapons we have. What else would you want
Speaker 1: to work on? Well, both of us sitting here right now,
Speaker 1: by the way, you're listening to the market my show,
Speaker 1: we're talking about bitcoin. We're sitting down with Peter McCormick
Speaker 1: from what bitcoin did, but both of us have decided
Speaker 1: to dedicate our careers to working on bitcoin as well. So, um,
Speaker 1: we've already done it. Obviously Jack's at a whole other level.
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's just assuring and like I said,
Speaker 1: the short term price, it's a distraction. It's gonna take
Speaker 1: care of itself. I think you want to focus on
Speaker 1: I talked about it. I I still am, but I
Speaker 1: started my career as a real estate investor and I
Speaker 1: talked about it like, um, let's say that you know
Speaker 1: outside of town, Um, there's nothing out there. It's like empty,
Speaker 1: and we're at the city council meeting, and they said, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna build a new stadium out a footballer stadium
Speaker 1: out there in five years, right, And we're like, dang, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: let's go buy some land around that area because once
Speaker 1: that stadium was gonna be worth a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So we buy the lamb and in a year from
Speaker 1: now the lot next to us is cheaper. What should
Speaker 1: we panic? Should we sell the lot? Well, I don't
Speaker 1: know is the is the stadium still on track, are
Speaker 1: they working on the plans, have they got the permits,
Speaker 1: do they have the funding? And if all those things
Speaker 1: are there, we should maybe buy the cheaper land, right
Speaker 1: or if they found out that there's nuclear waste on
Speaker 1: the land, we'll shoot. We should probably sell as fast
Speaker 1: as we can. And so like the price is dipped,
Speaker 1: but Jack is leaving to go keep working on right.
Speaker 1: The development is still happening. Blocks are still being produced
Speaker 1: every ten minutes um anyway, so there's nothing goes up
Speaker 1: in the straight line, you know, if you go back.
Speaker 1: We talked yesterday about the Internet. I was there at
Speaker 1: the start of the Internet. I was coding HTML pages,
Speaker 1: I was developing websites, and back then I didn't buy
Speaker 1: any shares and companies. But I remember the crash, remember
Speaker 1: pet dot com. I remember with than and you know
Speaker 1: there were survivors. One of the survivors was Amazon, but
Speaker 1: their share price was really hit, dropped from it went
Speaker 1: from five to eighty and then like back down to five. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know some people would have thought, oh the
Speaker 1: prices did, maybe I should sell this, maybe I should
Speaker 1: be scared, but smart people accumulated. Look at the share price.
Speaker 1: Now Amazon is like one of the top three largest
Speaker 1: companies in the world. So listen, that's going to happen
Speaker 1: with bitcoin. But the truth is with bitcoin is that
Speaker 1: good money kills bad. Good money kills bad, and bitcoin
Speaker 1: is good money. So whether it goes up and down,
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm thinking about five to ten years, Mark,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what my money means to me then,
Speaker 1: and will bitcoin be worth more than five to ten
Speaker 1: years certainly. Yeah. You're listening to the markma Show. We're
Speaker 1: sitting down with Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did,
Speaker 1: probably the largest podcast in the bitcoin space, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna be right back all right, Welcome back. You are
Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moa Show, where we are talking
Speaker 1: about bitcoin each and every week. Make sure pull out
Speaker 1: your phone put a reminder join me each and every week.
Speaker 1: It's going to be the most profitable, the most important
Speaker 1: part of your week talking about bitcoin the largest. It's
Speaker 1: it's what I call the largest asymmetric opportunity will ever
Speaker 1: have in our life. And the way that you participate
Speaker 1: in asymmetric opportunity is by having asymmetric information. You've got
Speaker 1: to know information that most people don't have, and the
Speaker 1: majority of people don't have this information about bitcoin, which
Speaker 1: is why you should join me each and every week
Speaker 1: so I can give you that asymmetric information. Now, today
Speaker 1: I'm in the studio with Peter McCormick, the host of
Speaker 1: Whip Bitcoin did, and we're talking about specifically right now
Speaker 1: about how the prices is a bait and switch. People
Speaker 1: come in for the price and then they get switched.
Speaker 1: We talked about how um it's a short term distraction.
Speaker 1: I think we should be focusing on the growth of
Speaker 1: the network and the development, and of course we have
Speaker 1: massive development. Even bigger development is something Peter, that you've
Speaker 1: been involved with from the beginning, and that's El Salvador
Speaker 1: Um and I know you've been going down there for
Speaker 1: a couple of years now, I think right about two years,
Speaker 1: about two years now, and obviously at this point, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to the show, you've probably heard me
Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin in El Salvador. I've been down there
Speaker 1: as well. Big news, right, they've it's a currency there.
Speaker 1: Now they have the bitcoin bonds. Um, it's big news.
Speaker 1: It's development, it's growth of the network. Now there's a
Speaker 1: few million users down there, I think, and then there's
Speaker 1: development on the networks and now they're doing bonds and
Speaker 1: they have their own apps and things like that. UM,
Speaker 1: talk to us about those early days when you started
Speaker 1: going down there. Yeah. So what happened was I was
Speaker 1: in I requaied for the bit Confident and stood outside
Speaker 1: the hotel. Michael Peterson comes up and introduced him, introducing
Speaker 1: himself to me and said, I just want to tell
Speaker 1: you about this project I've got in El Salvador. It's
Speaker 1: helping kids girls the street avoid gangs and and a
Speaker 1: bit of money and we're doing it with bitcoin. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it sounds cool. He's like yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, let me just give me a second.
Speaker 1: I just went on my phone and I found a
Speaker 1: fly and said I can come there in two days.
Speaker 1: You tell me about it. So I quarter fled to
Speaker 1: Panama and then a flight from Panama to El Salvador,
Speaker 1: and I went down and saw the project. But it
Speaker 1: was small, and I was like, yeah, it's just cool,
Speaker 1: this is cute. Whatever forgot all about it, you know.
Speaker 1: I stayed in touch with Michael, but it didn't think
Speaker 1: much of it. I didn't think this was the seed
Speaker 1: that would grow to be a country making bitcoin legal tender.
Speaker 1: And then Jack Marl has headed down there. Our mutual
Speaker 1: friend Jack went down there, you know, brought strike down there,
Speaker 1: and then he had a meeting with the president and
Speaker 1: here we are. You know, in two years, it's gone
Speaker 1: from that small seed planted by Michael Peterson to be
Speaker 1: the first country to adopt bitcoin, which is incredible. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is incredible. I love how it seemed to work.
Speaker 1: And you correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems
Speaker 1: like it was a bottom up approach, right, So it
Speaker 1: was started as a little community plant. Um it did
Speaker 1: good for the community. You kind of grew from there
Speaker 1: and then I'm guessing and you tell me, but it
Speaker 1: seems like maybe the president saw what was going on
Speaker 1: down there and said, dang, like, what the heck is
Speaker 1: going on? Oh? Bitcoin, that's pretty cool, let's make it bigger.
Speaker 1: Is that kind of happened? Well? Yeah, I mean, look,
Speaker 1: he's a president who's much more in touch with the
Speaker 1: modern world than most leaders of them because he's worked
Speaker 1: forty years old instead of Biden that's eighty or whatever.
Speaker 1: He's really in touch and touch with the young people.
Speaker 1: And he's somebody who's obviously cares about his own career.
Speaker 1: But look, Bitcoin, the history of bitcoin has been about outliers.
Speaker 1: People are brave enough to consider this. And you know,
Speaker 1: in the early days, it was the cipher punks, and
Speaker 1: then some few nerds came and got involved and started
Speaker 1: accumulating bitcoin and put themselves on a bitcoin standard. And
Speaker 1: then we moved to have a company going to a
Speaker 1: bitcoin standard, which was micro Strategy, and now we have
Speaker 1: a country. These are just natural steps. And every single
Speaker 1: time the brave outlies have been proven right. They've been
Speaker 1: proven right in their choice, they've been proven right economically,
Speaker 1: and they've reaped the benefits. And do you know what.
Speaker 1: El Salvador has had a tough history of gang violence
Speaker 1: and war, something that they always want to move on
Speaker 1: from the President said, we don't want to be known
Speaker 1: for this, and now they're going to be known for
Speaker 1: something else. And I am entirely confident without I don't
Speaker 1: even have to be in confident in Boukeley, but I'm
Speaker 1: entirely confident in the country reaping the benefits from this.
Speaker 1: And you know, once this bond sells, this first bitcoin bond,
Speaker 1: once they raise a billion and put that into that,
Speaker 1: other countries are going to look and go, what hold on,
Speaker 1: we can raise money on the open market without the
Speaker 1: I m F. And this is a bond people want
Speaker 1: to put money into, and we can invest this money
Speaker 1: and grow a country. And we have this sound money.
Speaker 1: Basis why when other countries look at this, other countries
Speaker 1: who were struggling. So this is this is just the
Speaker 1: one another big part in the revolution. And look, Mark,
Speaker 1: one thing I think about is, you know, if this
Speaker 1: works in a few decades, people going to look back
Speaker 1: and go, the world is a very different place. Now.
Speaker 1: What happened with this bitcoin thing? What is the story?
Speaker 1: You know, this thing that changed the world. You talk
Speaker 1: about different technologies. I talked about the engines that move markets.
Speaker 1: You know, I believe bitcoin is akin to the light bulb,
Speaker 1: to electricity, to the railroad. It is something that's going
Speaker 1: to shift the world mainly for the mainly for the better,
Speaker 1: the better. So why else would you want to work
Speaker 1: on this. You can look back and go I was
Speaker 1: part of this. I did my bit to help this
Speaker 1: change happened. I think. I think it's really exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Markma Show,
Speaker 1: we're talking about bitcoin. Of course, each and every week,
Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution is happening. I'm sitting down in the
Speaker 1: studio with Peter McCormick, the host of What Bitcoin Did,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about the growth of the network
Speaker 1: and the development. We're talking about El Savadoor right now.
Speaker 1: Just to catch you up. Um, you mentioned earlier that
Speaker 1: you know, the United States is supposed to be the
Speaker 1: land of the free, and then you mentioned Boris Johnson
Speaker 1: from the UK. Of course we're here from he wants
Speaker 1: it to be the bastion of freedom, I think you said,
Speaker 1: or whatever. If that's the bastion of liberty, we got
Speaker 1: a problem in our on our hands. And and look
Speaker 1: at back to El savador Um. In the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, Um, the President removed all restrictions and all
Speaker 1: mandates from getting in and out of the country, COVID
Speaker 1: restrictions mandates. In regards to that, Um announced a the
Speaker 1: Bitcoin City where you can anybody can come and start
Speaker 1: building and you can have a business with no cap
Speaker 1: gain taxes and no income taxes. Um and he's basically
Speaker 1: made an open invitation to come live your best life,
Speaker 1: have the chase life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
Speaker 1: and property, build your businesses, he said. He's I think
Speaker 1: he said come and make as much money as you want.
Speaker 1: That seems like a bastion of liberty. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a stark contrast to the United States and
Speaker 1: the UK. Well I interviewed Mayor Frances here in Miami
Speaker 1: yesterday and they they're very similar characters. And and the
Speaker 1: thing that I think is really like the thing I
Speaker 1: don't identified with both of them, they actually operate like CEOs.
Speaker 1: They don't operate like political leaders. They operate like CEOs.
Speaker 1: They run the jurisdiction, whether it's the whole country or
Speaker 1: else Alvador, the city of Miami. They running like a
Speaker 1: company and they're looking to grow that company, and they're
Speaker 1: looking to serve the people who work for that company,
Speaker 1: the constituents, And I mean that's really the way should be.
Speaker 1: Politicians are meant to be there to serve us, that's
Speaker 1: the voters and the constituents. We're not meant to serve them.
Speaker 1: I feel like, I feel like if you look at
Speaker 1: what's happening in Europe, the UK, and the US Australia,
Speaker 1: it's got to the point now we serve them. We
Speaker 1: are the people that serve them, and we are we
Speaker 1: are subserving to their needs and their wants, and we're
Speaker 1: almost being parented by people who are essentially morons. People
Speaker 1: I don't I wouldn't trust to run a company. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't hire any of them. I wouldn't hire any of them.
Speaker 1: That these people are idiots. So it's a really it's
Speaker 1: really interesting position that puts US in where we've got
Speaker 1: these opportunities. Now it's like, well, I you know, the
Speaker 1: US has it better because you know, you have the
Speaker 1: state rights and you have the ability to move from
Speaker 1: state to state, and it's not perfect, but it's better
Speaker 1: than what we have in the Utue. But we now
Speaker 1: have as a sovereign individuals on international basis. I can
Speaker 1: leave the UK, I can go and live in El
Speaker 1: Salvador and live a freer, happier life potentially, And having
Speaker 1: that optionality is one of the things that I think
Speaker 1: we'll drive bit coming forward. Bitcoinners are getting wealthier and wealthier,
Speaker 1: and they have the and to take that capital and
Speaker 1: their wealth wherever they wanted to deploy it. He's recognized that,
Speaker 1: and I think this is a real shift in the
Speaker 1: way countries and you know, maybe states and cities will
Speaker 1: be wrong when people suddenly realize the benefits of bitcoin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great point. And it adds on to what
Speaker 1: we were talking about last night, which is kind of
Speaker 1: the direction the world is going. And I was making
Speaker 1: the case, um that obviously the world is trending towards authoritarianism.
Speaker 1: And I don't believe that thing that breaks that is war.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that breaks that as competition. And
Speaker 1: that's exactly what you're talking about, right. We have the
Speaker 1: ability to go move and take our wealth with us.
Speaker 1: Of course, if your wealth is in real estate, you
Speaker 1: can't take that anywhere. Um, if your wealth is in
Speaker 1: the bank, a lot of times they don't let you
Speaker 1: take that with you either. You can't carry gold with you,
Speaker 1: so what do you do? Bitcoin is really the only
Speaker 1: option for that. I want to get more into that
Speaker 1: the competition side. Um, you had mentioned last night, the
Speaker 1: butterfly effect. Let's let's talk about where we think this
Speaker 1: can go. Um, we'll game plan, we'll we'll game that
Speaker 1: out a little bit. By the way, you're listening to
Speaker 1: the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about bitcoin. We're talking
Speaker 1: about the giant decentralized revolution that is changing the world.
Speaker 1: Not just a new technology it's going to make things
Speaker 1: increminentally better, but a new technological revolution that will literally
Speaker 1: change the way humanity works. So you want to know
Speaker 1: about this, you want to participate in this. It's the
Speaker 1: greatest wealth transfer you'll ever see. Make sure you're tune
Speaker 1: in with me. We're gonna be right back with Peter McCormick,
Speaker 1: the host of Whip Bitcoin did so, don't go away,
Speaker 1: all right, Welcome back. You are listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: mo Show where we're talking about bitcoin, talking about cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the decentralized revolution. It's gonna be big,
Speaker 1: it's gonna change the world. You don't want to miss
Speaker 1: out on this. And I think. By the way, I'm
Speaker 1: sitting in the studio with my good friend Peter McCormick,
Speaker 1: the host of What Bitcoin Did. You can find them
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Peter McCormick, and of course I'm on Twitter.
Speaker 1: At one Mark Moss shout out at us, asks a
Speaker 1: question and tell us you heard us on the radio.
Speaker 1: We're talking about bit woin. We're talking about how, um,
Speaker 1: it's the prices of distraction, how it's pulling in some
Speaker 1: of the greatest mind share in the world. Like like
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey left Twitter, he's now working on bitcoin full time.
Speaker 1: And we have countries now like El Savadoor that adopting it. H.
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier about how um you I call
Speaker 1: it debate and switch, we get sucked in and then
Speaker 1: we want to increase our freedom, our education. UM. Now
Speaker 1: we're seeing it being used for freedom and economic freedom,
Speaker 1: financial freedom and even potentially um personal freedom right if
Speaker 1: you moved to a country like El Savador that says
Speaker 1: come and be free. Um. And in contrast of countries
Speaker 1: in the UK and the US that are trying to
Speaker 1: lock people down even more. I think we both agree
Speaker 1: um with Jack, that it's probably the most important thing
Speaker 1: that we can be working on right now, which of
Speaker 1: course why we're both working on at full time. Um.
Speaker 1: One thing that I would want to talk about is
Speaker 1: how can other people get involved with this? Now? I
Speaker 1: know you're a marketing guy, you're a business guy, um,
Speaker 1: and so you've had a lot of businesses and you've
Speaker 1: kind of found a way. So there's content creation, there's development.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think there's just like Jack just
Speaker 1: like asked them, and there's no greater thing to work on.
Speaker 1: So what do you think about the average person, like,
Speaker 1: how could they get involved with this? With this revolution? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great question. Um. I get a
Speaker 1: lot of emails of listeners saying do you have a job,
Speaker 1: or how do we get a job? Or how do
Speaker 1: I get involved in bigco. I think it grabs people. Mark.
Speaker 1: I think people once they've gone down that Rabbet hole
Speaker 1: and they've had that kind of like orange build moment,
Speaker 1: that like this is all I want to work on.
Speaker 1: I think there's a number of things you can do.
Speaker 1: I mean, firstly, you can just look for a job
Speaker 1: in bigcoint go and work for a bitcoin company. But
Speaker 1: if you if you want to keep your job, you
Speaker 1: want to do something else. You can create content. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've got a podcast. You've got a podcast. When I
Speaker 1: launched it had zero listeners, and I think I had
Speaker 1: a thousand followers on Twitter and launched a podcast, and
Speaker 1: then I have maybe a hundred listeners and it just
Speaker 1: grew and grow and grow. So you can launch a podcast,
Speaker 1: you can write, you can just set up a medium
Speaker 1: blog starts sharing your ideas, running your ideas out. You
Speaker 1: can run and start a meetup. You can go to meetups,
Speaker 1: you can go to events and meet people. The great
Speaker 1: thing about the bitcoin community is that whilst it can
Speaker 1: be fractured, it's also super tight and you can go
Speaker 1: to any city in the world and you can go
Speaker 1: to a meetup and you'll find a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who can become friends overnight and you can talk to
Speaker 1: you about bitcoin. So there's lots of opportunity out there.
Speaker 1: Content creation is a really easy first step. You know,
Speaker 1: with a few dollars, like a hundred dollars, you can
Speaker 1: probably set up a podcast. You can use your mobile,
Speaker 1: you can sign up to a website like Anchor, and
Speaker 1: you can just publish your shows and you can sell
Speaker 1: sign up to something. Our medium just start riding straight away.
Speaker 1: There's so much opportunity out there. And the more people
Speaker 1: who jump on board and do this, who work in bitcoin,
Speaker 1: who work for bitcoin companies, who create content, the bigger
Speaker 1: this network grows, and the fast that we get to
Speaker 1: that point where we actually have bitcoin out there, we
Speaker 1: actually have bitcoin out there being used by as many people,
Speaker 1: and we start to push forward this decentralized revolution. Like
Speaker 1: everybody is part of this. You, I, the listeners, the riders,
Speaker 1: the developers, everyone's part of this. And everyone can be
Speaker 1: part of this. Yeah they can. And so I mean, one,
Speaker 1: you could just pay attention and learn, and then you
Speaker 1: could just share that with your friends and your family
Speaker 1: wa locally of course, and then of course if you
Speaker 1: want to take it to the next level. I just
Speaker 1: hired a research assistant and writer from Australia, some kid
Speaker 1: that's just started writing. You put out a couple of
Speaker 1: good blogs and they caught my eye and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'll hire you. Done right, Um so content creation writing.
Speaker 1: UM I started a YouTube channel a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: You can grab your phone and just go live right
Speaker 1: from your phone. I mean, so there's that. There's a
Speaker 1: million ways that you can do it, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: if you're more into like the coding and that type
Speaker 1: of stuff, which I'm not, but I think there's gonna
Speaker 1: be massive demand. And from some some of my friends
Speaker 1: that are building in the bitcoin space, they tell me
Speaker 1: that the bitcoin space is going to be overwhelmed with
Speaker 1: the need for people that can develop and code and
Speaker 1: things like that on it. So there's those types of opportunities.
Speaker 1: It's kind of endless, even um, I mean, even making
Speaker 1: products that are geared for the bitcoin industry. You were
Speaker 1: talking about I don't know if you want to talk
Speaker 1: about the football thing, but you were talking about Um,
Speaker 1: I'm from the US, so we call football something different,
Speaker 1: but I did. I did grew up playing soccer though,
Speaker 1: um I think. I mean, it's one of the biggest
Speaker 1: sports in the world. Um, it's not in the United
Speaker 1: States for some reason. But you were talking about how
Speaker 1: you have started a club or bought a club that
Speaker 1: you're hoping to grow. Um. And when you were laying
Speaker 1: that plan out for me last night, what was interesting
Speaker 1: is you think you can grow it from a small
Speaker 1: team to a premier team by focusing on bitcoin. Yeah. Absolutely, Look,
Speaker 1: there's two things that are conversion at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's a personal goal that I've always had to own
Speaker 1: my local club Bedford and get them in the Football League.
Speaker 1: And the need to communicate all the desire to communicate
Speaker 1: bitcoin and what it means to people. So what better
Speaker 1: way bring the two together. Football is a UK British
Speaker 1: European football, not you call a soccer um. It is
Speaker 1: an industry which is run on whilst having billions and
Speaker 1: billions pounds going into it. It's on tight lines, like
Speaker 1: a lot of clubs go into administration. I think sixty
Speaker 1: of the eighty there's been sixty clubs going into administration
Speaker 1: in the last thirty years. I mean, that's ridiculous. It's
Speaker 1: because football is expensive, because players are pensive, but it
Speaker 1: really is a symptom of feat money. You know, these
Speaker 1: clubs are in Barcelona, I think are hundreds of millions
Speaker 1: in debt, same with Real Madrid. These are debt based
Speaker 1: companies buying players they can't afford with the desire to win,
Speaker 1: but doing it on a feed standard. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: let's do the opposite. Let's go on a bitcoin standard.
Speaker 1: Let's build a club that builds wealth and capital, not debt,
Speaker 1: not be debt based and at the same time doing that.
Speaker 1: If we get this right, we can climb through the
Speaker 1: league's and we can communicate the benefits of bitcoin to
Speaker 1: the billions of people around the world who love football.
Speaker 1: So to me, the too conversion at the same time,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a hell of a ride. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So some of your ideas were like I think branding
Speaker 1: the jersey of course with some bitcoin staff, and I
Speaker 1: mean like really kind of using bitcoin as the kind
Speaker 1: of like almost like a marketing angle kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I've got leverage marketing having the bitcoin
Speaker 1: show that you know, decent sized following on Twitter. I
Speaker 1: have advantage over all the other small clubs in the
Speaker 1: same league I'm in in that I can create a
Speaker 1: shirt and I can sell no fulle sell thousands of these,
Speaker 1: and I can sell sponsorship to bitcoin companies, and I
Speaker 1: can use a pr marketing plan to communicate our go
Speaker 1: go globally and hopefully create a global brand the football
Speaker 1: club that the bitcoin is followed. So that gives me
Speaker 1: an advantage over all these other clubs, and that I
Speaker 1: can I've got a bigger fan base to tap into
Speaker 1: and a bigger revenue model to tap into. But with
Speaker 1: that we take the profits we hold in bitcoin. We
Speaker 1: have sound money and we don't have there, so to me,
Speaker 1: all these things converge at the same time to essentially
Speaker 1: disrupt an industry and kind of show that things can
Speaker 1: be done differently. But like a bitcoin standard can be
Speaker 1: for anyone. It can be for an individual, a country,
Speaker 1: a company, a football club, it can be for any
Speaker 1: of them. We're just going to be the first football club. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we only have a couple of minutes left. But
Speaker 1: give us the short version of the plan which you
Speaker 1: kind of laid out last night. If if you're okay
Speaker 1: with that, which is raising the money in bitcoin, holding
Speaker 1: it in bitcoin, letting it grow, borrowing against the bitcoin,
Speaker 1: and then you think you can basically get the team
Speaker 1: up to the Premier league. Give us a short roosion
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. So first
Speaker 1: few years we don't need a treasury. We can in
Speaker 1: terms of a commerce and sending our merchandise and sending sponsorships.
Speaker 1: We can bring in way more money than it costs
Speaker 1: to run the club, and that allows us to get
Speaker 1: the best players to move up through the leagues. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I want to do a fan offering,
Speaker 1: and I want to raise a significant amount of capital
Speaker 1: and hold that in a bitcoin treasury. And listen, if
Speaker 1: bitcoin does what it does, then that treasury will grow
Speaker 1: faster than we can use it. And even if it
Speaker 1: gets to the point we want to use part of it,
Speaker 1: say you know, we get to the football league and
Speaker 1: we need to expand the ground. Rather than sell the bitcoin,
Speaker 1: will borrow against the bitcoin so we don't have to
Speaker 1: sell it, so our sound money keeps appreciating value. Honestly,
Speaker 1: people think going to think I'm ridiculous with this. Nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna think I can do this. Everyone's gonna laugh at me.
Speaker 1: But I know my plan is my plan is sound
Speaker 1: because my plan is based on sound money. My plan
Speaker 1: is based on a bitcoin standard, and that's absolutely changed.
Speaker 1: My life is changed. Michael Sailor's life is changing the
Speaker 1: lives of people in El Salvador. So we're just gonna
Speaker 1: be the first football club on a bitcoin standard, and
Speaker 1: we're going to go out there and we're gonna make
Speaker 1: this happen. I love the plan, and I think it's
Speaker 1: got a good chance of success. I mean, obviously there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of variables there, um and that goes back
Speaker 1: to just what we were talking about last night about
Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering what the future holds,
Speaker 1: and will the dollar remain the reserve currency, or will
Speaker 1: we go back to a gold standard or whatever? Will
Speaker 1: the Chinese you want to take over? But they're all
Speaker 1: looking for the centralized answer. But the future is decentralized,
Speaker 1: and so I'm on these I'm on the standard. You
Speaker 1: are you're starting a football team that's on the standard,
Speaker 1: you know, corporate players like Michael Strategy and then countries
Speaker 1: like Al Salvador. So the future is decentralized, and it
Speaker 1: starts with each of us, every each and every one
Speaker 1: of you listening right now, which are listening to the
Speaker 1: Mark Moa Show, and we're talking about bitcoin each and
Speaker 1: every week. We're talking about the decentralized revolution, which is
Speaker 1: the biggest wealth transfer over see. I've been in the
Speaker 1: studio with my good friend Peter McCormick, the host of
Speaker 1: What Bitcoin Did. Check them out and make sure put
Speaker 1: a calendar reminder on your phone for this channel at
Speaker 1: this time each and every week. It will be the biggest,
Speaker 1: the most profitable part of your week. Thanks for listening.