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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you from how supports

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Speaker 1: not come. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

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Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin. Today we are talking about women in

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Speaker 1: the construction industry, and you might be wondering what women

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Speaker 1: in the construction industry. There are a couple here, here

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Speaker 1: and there. There are some women in construction, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect the statistics to be quite as depressing as

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Speaker 1: they ended up being, not only the small numbers, but

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Speaker 1: basically what women at every level of construction have to

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Speaker 1: deal with. Yeah, it's tough out there for women in construction,

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Speaker 1: and I have a feeling that the numbers would be

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Speaker 1: higher if the kinds of barriers that we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about weren't so prevalent. But before we get into

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Speaker 1: the dismal stuff, Caroline, can I tell an aunt Kristen

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Speaker 1: anecdote that this episode reminded me out. So I was

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Speaker 1: playing sharades or sharads some people call it um a

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Speaker 1: few years ago with my niece and nephews, and my

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Speaker 1: niece was pretty young, and she also had wanting webbits,

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Speaker 1: which which you'll see in the impression I'm about to do.

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Speaker 1: And I was prompting her for she she needed help

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Speaker 1: with what to charade or sharade, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I pulled her aside and whispered in her ears, like,

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Speaker 1: why don't you pretend to be a princess or a model?

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Speaker 1: I give her, which, come on, Kristen, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing? They feeding into some gender stereotyping,

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Speaker 1: and she turned it around on me. She got so frustrated.

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Speaker 1: She stopped her foot and she said and question, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a model. I want to be

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Speaker 1: a construction walk up. I was like, well, there we go.

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Speaker 1: Good for her means that's great. Here is your pantomimed hammer.

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Speaker 1: Go for it. She wanted to be a construction walk up.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much. Well, I feel like we

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Speaker 1: need more girls and women stomping their foot and saying

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Speaker 1: that they want to be construction workers. Because, frankly, as

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Speaker 1: it stands now and has stood for a very long time, uh, construction,

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Speaker 1: the construction industry and the whole field in general doesn't

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Speaker 1: just have a leaky pipeline in terms of other like

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Speaker 1: stem jobs that we've talked about, but I mean the

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Speaker 1: whole pipeline is clogged. Yeah, and some people might be wondering, well,

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Speaker 1: why encourage people to go into the construction while for

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Speaker 1: women especially it's a really lucrative field. So let's let's

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Speaker 1: go into the past first, because you uncovered a really

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Speaker 1: fascinating historical tidbit about women in construction. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: coming from a paper called Women in Construction and Early

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Speaker 1: Historical Perspective, And I love this paper. It really walks

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Speaker 1: you through hundreds and hundreds of years of construction history

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Speaker 1: and they write that for five hundred years building crowdsman

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Speaker 1: or master craftsmen have always been thought of as men,

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Speaker 1: probably because while women were likely working on those early

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Speaker 1: modern construction sites, so to speak, it really wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: socially acceptable to write about their labor as work, especially

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Speaker 1: wage earning work, not only because women were considered too

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Speaker 1: weak to do such work such labor, but it was

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Speaker 1: also considered immoral for women to earn a wage. Plus

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Speaker 1: of course they were supposed to be home anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hence we have craftsmen crafts women's right. Um. And the

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Speaker 1: earliest mentioned though of women construction workers comes from the

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Speaker 1: thirteenth century in Spain. There's a mention of female day

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Speaker 1: laborers working on stone or wood structures. And who were

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Speaker 1: the kinds of women who would be working back on

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Speaker 1: ancient construction sites. Well, they were usually single or very

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Speaker 1: poor married women, or they were slaves, because women who

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Speaker 1: did work in these kinds of occupations were considered essentially

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Speaker 1: one step above prostitutes, and at the time, poverty and

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Speaker 1: the need for them to work outside the home was

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Speaker 1: often seen as a punishment for their sinful nature. But

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Speaker 1: at least they got exercise. Yeah there's hands. Hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: you might be considered a prostitute and like a dirty, dirty,

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Speaker 1: poor person, but at least you got to move around.

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Speaker 1: That is a that's a glass half full perspective on slavery,

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Speaker 1: I will say that on ancient slavery. Oh lord, well okay, um,

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Speaker 1: so what kind of things did they do? These unskilled labors?

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Speaker 1: What did these women do? They did things like carrying water,

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Speaker 1: digging ditches for foundation walls, thatching roofs, and mixing mortar,

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Speaker 1: so really really exciting stuff. But the thing is, even

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Speaker 1: back then there were class distinctions in terms of women

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Speaker 1: getting involved in construction and building in manual labor of

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Speaker 1: this type, because sometimes middle class ladies actually did get

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Speaker 1: the chance to learn a trade legitimately thanks to their

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Speaker 1: husbands or their fathers. Many city records of the time

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Speaker 1: actually show women working with husbands and fathers as masons, carpenters, doormakers,

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Speaker 1: and other types of crafting in and fifteenth centuries in France,

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Speaker 1: Spain and Germany. But of course, if these middle class

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Speaker 1: women were, say doormakers, they would make still about half

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Speaker 1: as much of what their male contemporaries would make, or

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Speaker 1: as much as young boys working for masters would make. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then when we get the guild system, which is

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Speaker 1: basically membership that's passed down along a mail line that

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Speaker 1: basically halts any type of whether it's a poor woman

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Speaker 1: working for wages or an upper class woman learning a

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Speaker 1: skilled trade from her father husband, that that basically goes

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Speaker 1: by the wayside. Yeah, And it's really not until the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies that we have this greater initiation to get

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Speaker 1: more women into construction, recognizing construction as a potential field

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Speaker 1: for women to earn a rather handsome wage. And how

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Speaker 1: would they be earning money in construction today? While construction

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Speaker 1: offers a lot of variety, because you might be working

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Speaker 1: on a new project or an addition, an alteration or

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Speaker 1: doing maintenance and repairs. Yeah, and these companies or construction

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Speaker 1: workers are working on things like uh constructing buildings or

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Speaker 1: engineering projects like highways and utility systems. They might be

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Speaker 1: prepping a site for new construction or subdividing land for

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Speaker 1: sale as building sites. And the large majority of these

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Speaker 1: jobs in the industry, though, are for private industry as

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Speaker 1: opposed to something like doing a federal government project. And

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Speaker 1: for a snapshot of what construction employment looks like today,

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Speaker 1: we've gathered some stats from OSHA and the Bureau of

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Speaker 1: Labor Statistics which site working as construction labors is the

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Speaker 1: most common job that you'll get, followed by in order carpenters, electricians,

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Speaker 1: operating engineers, and other construction equipment operators. So bulldozer drivers,

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Speaker 1: which make a pretty friend drop or or driving a

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Speaker 1: bobcat You would like to spend a day driving a

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Speaker 1: bobcat around. I remember when I was very little and

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Speaker 1: my parents were having some construction done at the house

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Speaker 1: and my dad was on the phone talking to somebody

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Speaker 1: about getting a bobcat out there. My mother, being my

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Speaker 1: mother very much so, from the other room, was like,

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Speaker 1: who's Bobcat? That comedian bobcat gold Pike to be coming out. UM.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, in addition, UM, you could also be a

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Speaker 1: construction manager. Obviously there are fewer of them, and they're

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Speaker 1: making the most money out of everybody. And so when

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Speaker 1: we look at the average pay for all workers, and

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Speaker 1: these are projected numbers as of January, construction workers make

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Speaker 1: an average hourly earning of twenty six dollars and cents

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Speaker 1: and they work on average of thirty eight point nine

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Speaker 1: hours a week. But when you take those supervisory employees out,

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Speaker 1: the earnings dropped to hour and the average hours worked

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Speaker 1: actually increased lightly to thirty nine point three. And being

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Speaker 1: a union member helps. Construction is a highly unionized industry

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Speaker 1: and members tend to earn the most per week, followed

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Speaker 1: by workers represented by unions, which means you're not a

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Speaker 1: paying union member, but your job is covered by a

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Speaker 1: union contract. And then in last place are non union workers.

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Speaker 1: And there is a pretty wide pay gap between construction

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Speaker 1: managers and construction laborers, with managers earning more than nine

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Speaker 1: dollars a year and laborers averaging about thirty five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a year. And it's a really risky job. Not surprisingly,

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Speaker 1: it has one of the highest fatality rates, and this

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Speaker 1: is in two thousand thirteen in the United States, there

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Speaker 1: were eight hundred twenty four reported fatalities related to construction work,

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Speaker 1: with a rate three point eight recorded cases of injury

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Speaker 1: or illness per one hundred full time workers, which is

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Speaker 1: quite high. Yeah, and I mean you've also got to

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Speaker 1: imagine that there are things that aren't being reported to

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Speaker 1: you know, you bang your head, you get a concussion,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm fine, I'm just gonna shake it off. Man. Well,

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Speaker 1: and also with the fact that construction work relies heavily

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Speaker 1: on undocumented labor to those numbers would probably go even higher.

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Speaker 1: That's true, and that leads us to talking a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about the industry itself in terms of how

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Speaker 1: the workforce is growing and changing. And estimates for how

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Speaker 1: many people are employed in the construction industry fall between

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Speaker 1: six point three and seven point one million people. But

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Speaker 1: construction employment overall is down in the US from its

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven peak, and this was pointed out in

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Speaker 1: an article from the Atlantic in February of It talks

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Speaker 1: about basically how the industry was hit really hard by

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Speaker 1: the recession. As you can imagine building projects slow. But

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Speaker 1: there is also issue of Latino workers historically making up

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Speaker 1: a huge chunk of the construction industry, and a large

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Speaker 1: number left during that recession, you know, not as much

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Speaker 1: work as available, and whereas others, many other construction workers

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Speaker 1: ended up seeking employment in other industries and or went

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Speaker 1: back to school. And while the Bureau of Labor Statistics

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Speaker 1: does expect that things are going to turn around somewhat,

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Speaker 1: that the construction industry will be one of the fastest

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Speaker 1: growing sectors through there's still a problem in terms of

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Speaker 1: not being able to attract enough skilled labors to fill

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Speaker 1: those spots that are gradually opening up. And so what

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Speaker 1: is an excellent solution broadening the labor pool and turning

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Speaker 1: to women. This is what happened during World War Two,

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Speaker 1: but of course after World War Two those jobs went

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Speaker 1: right back to men. But the industry is trying to

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Speaker 1: develop their pipelines to attract more and better skilled workers.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of these efforts are long term because

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Speaker 1: in addition to requiring things like mentoring people when they

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Speaker 1: are young, cultivating them in these trades, it also taps

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Speaker 1: into things like immigration reform that obviously moves slower than

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Speaker 1: a construction project a lot of times, right, and so

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Speaker 1: the National Association for Women in Constructions Image magazine from

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Speaker 1: Spring wrote about this issue in terms of, Hey, you

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Speaker 1: guys have an employment gap, Let's hire more women, and

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Speaker 1: they cite the example of Moscow Contractor Services, who are

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Speaker 1: making a concerted effort to attract and retain women specifically,

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Speaker 1: and their efforts include publishing ads that really put a

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Speaker 1: focus on the company's safety culture, competitive salaries and benefits

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Speaker 1: like tuition reimbursement, company match retirement program, paid training, paid

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Speaker 1: vacations and holidays, and especially flexible work hours. And one

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Speaker 1: manager even pointed out that he relies on women more

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Speaker 1: so than men to do a lot of the so

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Speaker 1: called detail oriented work that customers will notice right away.

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Speaker 1: I mean that all of the stuff that they're advertising

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Speaker 1: sounds like a pretty good gig. Well yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, anytime we've ever talked about women in the

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Speaker 1: workplace and whatever, feel whatever industry, I mean, like flexible

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Speaker 1: hours and childcare and things like that and pay those

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Speaker 1: are all really important issues to anyone, but especially to

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Speaker 1: a woman who might not have considered this nontraditional employment before.

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Speaker 1: And that was something too that we heard from In

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Speaker 1: one story we were reading about a woman who had

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Speaker 1: gotten her master's I believe in civil engineering at Columbia

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Speaker 1: and was really attracted to construction, in particular working on

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Speaker 1: construction sites because you start really early and you also

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Speaker 1: end relatively early, and it matches really well with kids

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Speaker 1: school hours, so it can be a really feasible job

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Speaker 1: for working moms. But speaking of working moms and women,

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Speaker 1: let's turn our attention to women's employment in construction. So

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Speaker 1: this is also coming from OSHA as well as a

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen report from the National Women's Law Center,

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Speaker 1: And we mentioned at the top of this episode that

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Speaker 1: the stats are pretty dismal, and that's because women make

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Speaker 1: up only two point six per cent of construction workers

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Speaker 1: and that number has barely changed in thirty five years,

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Speaker 1: even after in the mid seventies the US federal government

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Speaker 1: was like, hey, we could really use more women in construction.

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Speaker 1: Let's try to get this number up to six point

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Speaker 1: nine percent, but it's still so stagnant. Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: also interesting when you consider that women's ranks in other

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Speaker 1: quote unquote dirty and dangerous jobs like firefighting and being

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Speaker 1: a correctional officer has way increased. I mean, it's still

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Speaker 1: not up to where proportionally it should be in terms

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Speaker 1: of the number of women in the workplace and the

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Speaker 1: women in our population at large, but they have increased. Kristen,

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Speaker 1: I did a firefighting episode a couple of years ago

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Speaker 1: and looking at that very thing. And then, of course, though,

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Speaker 1: when you break it down according to race and ethnicity,

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Speaker 1: the stats are even worse for women of color. So

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Speaker 1: if you look at all of the women working in construction,

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Speaker 1: about three quarters of them are white. Non Hispanic women

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Speaker 1: coming in second at fourteen point six percent are Hispanic women,

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Speaker 1: and African American women are six point seven percent. Asian

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Speaker 1: Pacific Islander women make up two point eight percent of

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Speaker 1: the industry women in the industry, and coming in last

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Speaker 1: place are American, Indian or Alaska Native workers who are

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Speaker 1: two point one percent. But it is interesting to note,

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Speaker 1: according to that Law Center report that based on their

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Speaker 1: numbers in the overall workforce, white women are actually overrepresented

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Speaker 1: and black women are underrepresented in the construction industry. But

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Speaker 1: regardless of ethnicity, women are more likely to be concentrated

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Speaker 1: in office jobs in the construction industry and are way

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Speaker 1: less likely to be in skilled or unskilled labor intensive positions.

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Speaker 1: And you might be thinking, well, that makes sense, because

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Speaker 1: women have lesser upper body strength. They can't live those

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Speaker 1: giant steel beams into steilings. I've clearly never built a

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Speaker 1: building single hand, Paul Bunyan. That's how buildings are built, right,

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Speaker 1: people just lifting things into place. But um, in fact,

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Speaker 1: the construction equipment technology has been developed as such, and

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Speaker 1: also best practices on the construction site that you don't

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Speaker 1: actually have to exert as much physical strength as you

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Speaker 1: would think. If you're doing things correctly, then yes, you

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Speaker 1: could have a woman with an average woman's upper body

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Speaker 1: strength doing even that unskilled labor intensive kind of work.

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Speaker 1: But by the way, the industry's office workers make less

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Speaker 1: on average, though, than the construction labor So this gets

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Speaker 1: into another wrinkle because construction can be lucrative, but we

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Speaker 1: continue to be relegated to these lower paying positions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, and then you've got to look at the

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Speaker 1: part of the pipeline where women are actually getting trained

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Speaker 1: and developing and maintaining interest in the industry, and that's

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Speaker 1: an apprenticeship programs. In fiscal year, women made up six

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Speaker 1: point three percent of all active apprentices in federal apprenticeship programs,

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Speaker 1: but they made up just two point two percent of

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Speaker 1: active apprentices in the construction industry specifically. And it gets

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Speaker 1: worse because we're also less likely to finish our apprenticeship programs.

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Speaker 1: I mean everybody, men and women are like, face issues

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Speaker 1: like financial insecurity and you know, just finding it. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's not the thing you're interested in, or it's too hard,

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Speaker 1: or you develop a different interest in the field. And

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but women also shoulder issues related to gender discrimination.

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Speaker 1: And so if you look at carpenter apprenticeships specifically, women's

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Speaker 1: dropout rate is especially high. They're seventy percent of women

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Speaker 1: and carpenter apprenticeships drop out versus fifty of men. And

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Speaker 1: stinks because carpenters are among both the highest paid and

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Speaker 1: the highest skilled construction workers. And you know what, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: I've realized I'm part of the problem because I encouraged

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Speaker 1: a six year old little girl to pretend to be

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Speaker 1: a model instead of a construction book. Maybe she can

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Speaker 1: be a construction princess. I think she wants nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with princess, which is awesome. That is, she will

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Speaker 1: make a lot more money because I don't think princesses

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Speaker 1: make a thing. Well, we're gonna take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: but when we come back, we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: some of the reasons why it is so hard to

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Speaker 1: attract and retain women in the construction industry. So in

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Speaker 1: the first half of the podcast, we established a that

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Speaker 1: I can be a bad feminist aunt sometimes and be

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Speaker 1: the numbers of women in construction are lower than they

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Speaker 1: should be. So we want to look at the barriers

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Speaker 1: to women not only entering the field, but also remaining

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Speaker 1: in the field. And this is where some of the

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Speaker 1: most startling research we ran across comes up. Because the

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Speaker 1: biggest factor, that the most glaring statistic is the rate

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Speaker 1: of sexual harassment on the job. And again this is

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Speaker 1: coming from OSHA and also that two thousand and fourteen

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Speaker 1: report from the National Women's Law Center, And this is

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Speaker 1: the statistic that blew my mind. Eight percent of women

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Speaker 1: construction workers, according to data from the Department of Labor,

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Speaker 1: experience sexual harassment at work, compared to of women in

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Speaker 1: the general workforce eighty eight percent. And you know that's

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Speaker 1: a low estimate. I feel like the twelve percent are

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Speaker 1: just people who aren't especially curvy and have short hair.

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Speaker 1: So they might simply appear male because it's so high. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's mine knowing, especially when you compare it to the

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Speaker 1: overall workforce number. And the reason I said, you know

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Speaker 1: that that's a low number is just because in that

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Speaker 1: fascinating which even if you're not interested in the construction industry,

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Speaker 1: I recommend you read that National Women's Loss in our

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Speaker 1: report because of the horrifying quotes that are in it.

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Speaker 1: They talked to a lot of women in the industry

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Speaker 1: who reported terrible things like one statistic there was a

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Speaker 1: study that found fifty of respondents had been touched, physically

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Speaker 1: touched or asked for sex, like actually sex, just being

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Speaker 1: requested in one way or another. And so many of

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Speaker 1: the women that this report talked to in other studies

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Speaker 1: cited we're saying things like, yeah, you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's kind of not even productive to report this stuff

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Speaker 1: because I'm more likely to be fired. Well, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of times too, they're going to be the only

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Speaker 1: woman on the construction site, and so they don't feel

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Speaker 1: like they have anyone they can really turn to as well,

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Speaker 1: because they're having to prove themselves and don't want to.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's like they want to be tough, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, where's the line when you are

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Speaker 1: being actually touched or directly asked for sex. And this

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Speaker 1: kind of harassment or workplace hazing was something too that

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Speaker 1: was echoed in our podcast on women in Firefighting. UM.

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Speaker 1: There was a story about Brenda Berkman, who was the

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Speaker 1: first female firefighter with the New York City Fire Department,

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Speaker 1: who reported just continual hazing. It wasn't so much sexual harassment,

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Speaker 1: but things like what do they do to her boots?

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Speaker 1: They like urinated in her her work boots and would

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Speaker 1: just do every day it was a new thing. They

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Speaker 1: would find her bra and like stretch it out across

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Speaker 1: multiple lockers. UM. And it's not just though sexual harassment.

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Speaker 1: There's also discrimination going on, uh, saving higher paying jobs

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Speaker 1: for men. Just general hostility. That's another factor too when

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Speaker 1: you have these heavily mail dominated workplace. This and the

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Speaker 1: idea that a woman walking in onto the work site

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Speaker 1: is just going to ruin everything. Well, yeah, One woman

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Speaker 1: told a story in terms of hostility about you know,

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Speaker 1: her job was to come along behind other workers and

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Speaker 1: as they started things, she would I don't know she

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Speaker 1: would finish it basically, but she said that she had

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Speaker 1: to learn how to do everything backwards before she learned

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Speaker 1: to do it the right way, because the men that

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Speaker 1: were going before her were purposely putting things on backwards,

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Speaker 1: and if she had moved something or it had flown

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Speaker 1: off and hit her in the face like there could

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Speaker 1: have been serious injuries. So she always had to be

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Speaker 1: triple careful. And of course there's also the issue of

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Speaker 1: lack of mentors. If there's not enough women in construction,

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Speaker 1: then surely there's not going to be enough female mentors

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Speaker 1: sort of guiding and providing advice, and then women grappling

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Speaker 1: with stereotype assumptions about their own abilities. Restricted access to

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Speaker 1: sanitary toilets is a big one. Not just like having

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Speaker 1: a clean and safe place to go to the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: but actually a clean and safe place to deal with

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Speaker 1: the fact that you have a period every month. That

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Speaker 1: was another aspect of this city I had not thought

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Speaker 1: about at all. I take my work bathroom and it's clean,

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Speaker 1: you know, that clean private space so much for granted.

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Speaker 1: And the building that Caroline and I work in is

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Speaker 1: currently going through a lot of construction, and I was

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Speaker 1: driving in today and passed a construction porta potty and

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Speaker 1: just thought about, Oh my god, I bet it's I

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Speaker 1: bet that's a nightmare if there are any women construction

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Speaker 1: workers who have to use that, because it did look,

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Speaker 1: i mean, just on the outside, look disgusting. Yeah. One

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Speaker 1: woman interviewed in that report was talking about how, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: porta potties can be gross, and a lot of coworkers

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Speaker 1: will on purpose make it disgusting to mess with her.

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Speaker 1: But there's also the issue of like, if you're out

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Speaker 1: on a site, or you know, you're somewhere that you're

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Speaker 1: not close to a porta potty or a bathroom, and

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Speaker 1: other guys are just pan in the ditch or pan

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Speaker 1: behind a tree, like you also have to do that,

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Speaker 1: but you're also being watched. Yeah, yeah, and again this

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Speaker 1: was another thing that came up in that firefighting episode.

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Speaker 1: That was another another big thing that these women we're needing,

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Speaker 1: in addition to things like properly fitting protective equipment and clothing, because,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine, with only two point six percent

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Speaker 1: of construction workers being women, almost everything universally, down to

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Speaker 1: the tools and gloves are sized for a male body, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, God help you if you're wearing

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Speaker 1: a jacket protective jacket that's too long and your sleeve

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Speaker 1: gets caught in some equipment. There's also the whole issue

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Speaker 1: of poor on the job training. The report really hammered home.

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean to do that, Um. The report really

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Speaker 1: hammered home the fact that a lot of safety information

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Speaker 1: and really general information about how to do things is

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Speaker 1: passed along during this informal on the job training that

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Speaker 1: workers provide each other like, Hey, don't do it like this,

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Speaker 1: do it like this. This is the easier way, this

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Speaker 1: is the better way. A lot of women end up

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Speaker 1: being barred from that informal process just thanks to hostility. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was one anecdote we were reading about UM and

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Speaker 1: a civil engineering major who was going through an internship

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Speaker 1: and there were a couple of other women and some

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Speaker 1: dudes going through this internship as well, And the first

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Speaker 1: day on the job, the site manager took the guys

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Speaker 1: off to go do the hands on kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: and sent the women to the office. Yeah. It's just

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Speaker 1: like automatic. Yeah, that the women weren't not only doing

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Speaker 1: the you know, quote unquote bonding, the informal mentorship, but

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Speaker 1: they missed out on all of that how to stuff

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Speaker 1: that was being passed along well. And then too when

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Speaker 1: dealing with clients, a client walks in to a contractor's

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Speaker 1: office and sees, you know, a woman who was in charge,

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Speaker 1: but just assumed that she must be the office manager. Right, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And then add to this the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of women have to deal with actual threats of violence

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Speaker 1: and death, and this was cited in several reports that

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Speaker 1: we looked at. Ten of women in one survey said

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Speaker 1: that they'd experienced threats of violence by coworkers and or supervisors,

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Speaker 1: not just co workers on their same level, but just

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Speaker 1: seemingly everyone around them. And then when it comes to

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Speaker 1: wages as well, we mentioned that first of all, um,

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Speaker 1: women are usually diverted to lower paying office jobs. But

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Speaker 1: even if you are a project manager, a study that

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Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and fourteen in the International

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Speaker 1: Journal of Construction Education and Research found that female project

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Speaker 1: managers salaries as opposed to male project manager salaries, were

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Speaker 1: negatively affected if they are married with kids at home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a lot of different factors they could

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Speaker 1: potentially be at play there, but it doesn't change the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're doing the same job and taking home

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Speaker 1: less money. And so what does all of this lead

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Speaker 1: up to. Well, understandably, there is a sense of isolation

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Speaker 1: of women. In one survey said that they have never

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Speaker 1: worked with another woman. Yeah, and then this adds to

431
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: this chronic stress that so many women report. You end

432
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: up being sick more often, You're more distracted and therefore

433
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: more likely to get hurt. And of course, like we

434
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you've got that lack of reporting issue. Your

435
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: job security is already tenuous at best. You feel vulnerable,

436
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: and as one woman said, reporting isn't always possible, nor

437
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: is it productive. And all three of these things just

438
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: sort of compound each other and make each element worse. Yeah.

439
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: There was an anecdote from one woman who I think

440
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: now owns or co owns um a contracting business, who

441
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: was asked about how she deals with being a woman

442
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: in this heavily male dominated field, and she was essentially,

443
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I simply don't put up with it if but but

444
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: that I think that that's probably easier to do when

445
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: you're the boss rather than you know, she might have

446
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: been saying something different when she was first starting out,

447
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: but it was it was interesting to see how she

448
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: was just like, no, I have no time for that,

449
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: and I will let that be known if someone tries

450
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: to make my sex an issue, right, well, I mean

451
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: just beyond the oh, I don't know, the death threats

452
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: and the sexual harassment, there is, as Kristan point out earlier,

453
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: a very real risk in terms of injury, illness, and death.

454
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: It comes along with working in the construction industry, and

455
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 1: a couple of different studies have shown that it is

456
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: the risk is higher for women especially. You know, it's

457
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: it's not only just the job itself, but it could

458
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: be a consequence of poor training or coworker hostility. Yeah,

459
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the hasting period rarely stops for these women,

460
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: and their strength and ability are constantly being tested and

461
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: help often refuse. It's like that woman you were talking

462
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: about who has to learn the work backwards because she

463
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: knows that things are going to be put on poorly

464
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: on purpose to set her up. Yeah. And the Ocean

465
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: Report quotes a female construction worker who said women injure

466
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: themselves more than the men because they refuse help and

467
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: they're not allowed to ask for help. And it's a

468
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: much bigger deal if a woman asks for help. So

469
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: if you look back, uh into the eighties and nineties.

470
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: UH the American Journal of Industrial Medicine put out of

471
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: report in nine that examined the deaths of a hundred

472
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: and thirty nine female construction workers between nineteen eighty and

473
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two and found that motor vehicles and machinery

474
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: are the first and second leading causes of occupational injury

475
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: death for women. And so they compared female workers in

476
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: transportation and material moving with male workers and found that

477
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: those female workers had a fifty nine percent and eight

478
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: higher mortality rate from motor vehicles and machinery, respectively. And

479
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: they found more and more stats like this in terms

480
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: of women being like out in the road as flaggers,

481
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: basically qualifying as pedestrians, that a woman in that position

482
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: is way more likely to get killed or severely injured

483
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: than a man is, and women's higher risk of injury

484
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: was confirmed. And a two thousand eight study on women

485
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: in a heavy manufacturing setting like smelting, and that's coming

486
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: from the American Journal of Epidemiology, and you might be

487
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: saying a heavy manufacturing setting isn't necessarily the same thing

488
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: as a construction industry, but they found that this risk

489
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: really applied to jobs. A lot of related jobs like

490
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: crane operators, machinists, mechanical and electrical maintenance, machine operators, and

491
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: mobile equipment operators. I'd also like to know who that

492
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: know at all construction industry expert listening to this podcast,

493
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: I know they might need some no spray. They found

494
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: awfully nasal. And that study, though, found that female workers

495
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: are at a greater risk of all injuries across the

496
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: board compared to male workers, and while as statistically significant,

497
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: female workers also appear to be at a greater risk

498
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: of sustaining injuries that result in lost work time. So

499
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: what's the deal, Well, there are a few ideas. Historically,

500
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: in heavy manufacturing industries, tools, equipment, work surface, heights, and

501
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: workstations were again designed for men of average size because

502
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: they were the ones usually doing the work. Um. It

503
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: also cites studies that mentioned the possibility of women receiving

504
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: less on the job training, which is another factor that

505
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: we brought up before. So it's not the assumption that well,

506
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: women simply aren't cut out for this kind of work

507
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: is not necessarily accurate. There are all sorts of environmental

508
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: issues happening as well. Yeah, so many environmental issues that

509
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: we've discovered that would make you feel unsafe and your job,

510
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: and and women who you know in some of these

511
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: reports who talked about I was so just like chronically

512
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: stressed out and on guard for all of this behavior

513
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: that I constantly was confronted with it. I found myself

514
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: tripping over things all the time, dropping things all the time,

515
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: because you're not focused on your work, if you're so

516
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: focused on just trying to get by and protect yourself

517
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: and you're having to wear like massive gloves don't fit

518
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: your hands. Um. You had mentioned the pipeline issue, though, Caroline,

519
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: this is something that comes up a lot in STEM

520
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: fields and it is important to note too, like construction

521
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: is a STEM field. That's the big eve. Engineering is

522
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: where construction fits in with all of this. But it's

523
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: not just an issue of a leaky pipeline. The entire

524
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: pipeline is clogged, starting with education, because in career and

525
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: technical education programs, young women are often subtly encouraged or

526
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: just explicitly steered into occupations that align with traditional gender

527
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: stereotypes like princess Apparently, instead of being encouraged to enter

528
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: traditionally mail programs such as construction or like the carpet

529
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: tree example, Yeah, exactly. And so women and girls who

530
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: end up in these so called non traditional career and

531
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: technical education programs report facing harassment, differential treatment, and all

532
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: of these things end up combining to discourage them from

533
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: entering or staying in these fields. And these programs, as

534
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: a result, end up highly gender segregated, with female students

535
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: ending up being concentrated in low wage, traditionally female fields.

536
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people, and I can't blame them,

537
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: are just not willing to put up with abuse like that. Yeah,

538
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: And we have to talk to about the importance of

539
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: apprenticeships with these kinds of jobs. Um, it makes sense

540
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: that you, I mean, that's how you learn these kinds

541
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: of hands on trades, and this is the traditional path

542
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: to these high paying jobs and these kinds of this

543
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of skilled trade or construction work, and especially if

544
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: you're going for the higher paying work. But entry into

545
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: these apprent the ships depends on knowing how, when, and

546
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: where to apply, and this kind of information is often

547
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: held by current construction workers, most of whom are guys.

548
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: And female construction workers have actually termed this the friends,

549
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: brothers and in laws network. Yeah, I mean, it's kind

550
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: of the Old Boys Club in a different sort of way,

551
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: it's the Old Boys construction site or wood shopping should

552
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: And we mentioned earlier that dropout rate that women experience

553
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: in the carpenter apprenticeship specifically, but between two thousand and

554
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: six and two thousand seven, fift of women left their

555
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: apprenticeship programs overall, citing sexual harassment, hazing, and outright hostility

556
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: from men who see them as intruders. And so not

557
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: only that, not only all this abuse that's being hurled

558
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: at them, but also just the lack of childcare that

559
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: if a lot of women are maybe uh, going through

560
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: school for the first time or going back for another career,

561
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: or if you have a family already and you can't

562
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: do anything with your kids, like we've talked about in

563
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: so many other fields, that is a big inhibitor for

564
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: a lot of women. And then, of course you also

565
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: have the issue that apprentices typically end up getting hired

566
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: by experienced tradesmen who have to offer to formally supervise them.

567
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: So you've got to have somebody kind of like a

568
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: mentor who's willing to step up and be like, I

569
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: will vouch for this person, I will train him or her,

570
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: you know, I will guide this person and end up

571
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: hiring them. But as we've seen, it's not so hard

572
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: to imagine that there are just not a lot of

573
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: men out there who are willing to put in that

574
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: time and energy that's required to mentor guide and eventually

575
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: hire someone. If that someone is a woman, yeah, I mean,

576
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: and it might just not occur to them as much.

577
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: Because this is going back again to the guild systems.

578
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: You know, this is sort of how it has always been,

579
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: and it's really only been taking concerted efforts to crack

580
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: this nut for the past. They they're ty years versus

581
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: just centuries, centuries and centuries um. And so all this

582
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: adds up to today that small number of women in

583
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: the field, which again limits those mentorship opportunities. And there's

584
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: something called checkerboarding, which is the practice of sending tradeswomen

585
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 1: to a construction site just to show that they're meeting

586
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: gender and or race quotas and goals, and then once

587
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 1: those quotas are met, the women are often fired. So

588
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: talk about some tokenism happening big time. And also there's

589
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: the aspect of saving money because journey worker trades women

590
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: will say that contractors who want to meet gender quotas

591
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: will often hire apprentices because they're cheaper, even cheaper cheaper. Yeah, well,

592
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: so we've we've hinted throughout this episode about why it

593
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: is such a big deal that women are not essentially

594
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: being permitted in into the construction industry at large. And

595
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just like we're sitting here worried

596
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: about women not being able to follow their construction dreams

597
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: like your niece, Kristen. It's the fact that construction industry

598
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: jobs can provide such better pay and career opportunities than

599
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: traditional quote unquote woman's work. And so if you look

600
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: at that pipeline, I mean, the effect alone of not

601
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: completing an apprenticeship man or woman is that you're going

602
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: to end up making less over the course of your career.

603
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: And similarly, locking women out of certain jobs, whether in

604
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: the construction industry or in the workforce at large, locks

605
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: them out of the opportunity to make more money. Yeah,

606
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: the media and hourly wage for construction occupations in was

607
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: nine cents, which is roughly double the median hourly wage

608
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: for female dominated occupations like home health aids, maids, housekeepers,

609
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: and childcare workers. And then when you look at the

610
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: women who do actually make through all of that hazing,

611
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: all of that abuse, they end up experiencing a smaller

612
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: wage gap than do women in the overall workforce, although

613
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: there still is a wage gap. Let's just say that, uh,

614
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: women in construction make eight of what men in construction

615
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: make versus of what men make across the whole labor force.

616
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: So essentially, if you can make it through, then the

617
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: wage gap, the gender wage gap is at least narrower.

618
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: So I mean, economically, there are lots of potential benefits

619
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: in here, UM, and there are lots of recommendations being made,

620
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: especially because there are women who are leading the charge

621
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: within the industry to say, okay, we we need to

622
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: do something about this. And all these reports that we've

623
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: been citing have also offered a number of recommendations, such

624
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: as strengthening affirmative action requirements, although I wonder, I mean,

625
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: I feel like that's only going to take you so

626
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: far because of practices like checkerboarding UM and then raising

627
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: target numbers for female hires. Again in night that was

628
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: a year UM when there was that federal goal of

629
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: six point nine percent established, which was based on the

630
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: overall percent of women in the workforce at the time,

631
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: and so industry leaders were saying, we need to adjust

632
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: that even higher because there are more women working than

633
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: there were in n Yeah, exactly. They also recommend, of course,

634
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: strengthening sexual harassment policies and improving or requiring training, better training,

635
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: engaging in better outreach and recruitment of both women and minorities,

636
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: and encouraging unions to take a more active role in

637
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: sexual harassment prevention training. I mean, that seems to be

638
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: the huge sticking point out of all of this, is

639
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean, aside from the death threats, um, just the

640
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: fact that so many women are experiencing sexual harassment and

641
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: there are hard working groups stepping in, like the National

642
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: Association of Women in Construction Professional Women in Construction in

643
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: New York's non additional employment for women who are helping

644
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: to organize women offering these mentorship opportunities, UM at least

645
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: giving them a place to turn to when they're dealing

646
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: with these kinds of issues in the workplace. Yeah. There

647
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: was an Associated Press story from September that's sort of

648
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: profiled new It's a nonprofit and they have arrangements actually

649
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: with several unions to take women directly into their multi

650
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: year apprenticeships at a starting wage around seventeen dollars plus

651
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: benefits once they complete the training, and after four or

652
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: five years, these women can attain journeyman's status with hourly

653
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: pay of forty dollars or more. So it's it's great

654
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: that you have a group like New partnering with those

655
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: super important unions to sort of shepherd women through, not

656
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: that women need shepherding, but almost to act as a

657
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: sort of bulldozer to to get women into the field

658
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: making those great paychecks. Yeah uh. And to that end,

659
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: the Department of Labor also announced in December that they

660
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: were making one million dollars in grants available to expand

661
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: apprenticeship programs in high skilled, high growth industries light construction,

662
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: and that was actually on the heels of an earlier

663
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: announcement of one point nine million dollars in grants being

664
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: made available to support women in non traditional jobs to

665
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: complete apprenticeships. So the good news is is that efforts

666
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: are being made to correct this, but there is I mean,

667
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: two point six is mighty low, you know, and there's

668
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: still so many, so many factors. I mean, it's an

669
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: entire culture change that needs to occur. I mean, I

670
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: I can't get inside anyone else's brain as much as

671
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: I try. UM, but it just seems insane to me

672
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: that you would look at a woman and consider her

673
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: such a threat that you would feel the need to

674
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: threaten her stantly trip her up, both literally and figuratively, um,

675
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: try to make her life a living hell essentially because

676
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: because why, there's actually an interesting paper looking at that

677
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: specifically within the construction industry in the UK, and what

678
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: they the conclusion this researcher came to had to do

679
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: a lot actually with class and masculinity constructs in terms

680
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: of you know, this, this has this particular sector has

681
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: a specific appeal to a specific class sector of men

682
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: who take a lot of pride in their work and

683
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: also sort of having having that space to themselves and

684
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: the kind of sort of power that it gives them.

685
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, and and it's not just and it's not

686
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: just men, there are lots of socio cultural factors that

687
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: feed into that and that breed this kind of unhealthy

688
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: my cheese mo that can end up endangering women's lives

689
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: on construction sites because of these kinds of uh, class

690
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: laden power dynamics at work so it's complicated. To put

691
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: it very eloquently, it is complicated. It is a definite,

692
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: multi layer experience, and it does seem like to really

693
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: the brightest shining star the the the example who comes

694
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: up over and over again of a woman leader in

695
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: this field who's also a maker. You've probably heard us

696
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: talk about makers before you can. Makers dot com profiles

697
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: all these incredible women, and Linda Albareto, who is a

698
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: leader in the construction industry, is one of those people,

699
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: and she's always advocating for women in this field. Yeah.

700
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: So so let's hear from I know you're out there,

701
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: let's hear from women who are in construction and related industries.

702
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: Have you been interested in the industry and have been

703
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: sort of reticent to actually dive in, and we want

704
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: to hear your experiences. Yeah. And I'm curious, especially for

705
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: engineering students who are interested in getting into these kinds

706
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: of fields too, is there any acknowledgement of these kinds

707
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: of gender dynamics happening within the classroom too? Like are

708
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: you are you being prepped for this or not? We

709
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: want to know what's happening. Mom. Stuff at how stuff

710
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: works dot Com is our email address You can also

711
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook.

712
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: And in our next podcast, we're going to take a

713
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: step back from construction and look at building design, focusing

714
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: in on women architects. So we share to tune in

715
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: for that one. In the meantime, we've got a couple

716
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: of letters to read, and we come right back from

717
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: a quick break and now back to the show. I

718
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: have a letter here from America talking about men and feminism,

719
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: she says. First of all, let me thank you for

720
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: providing me with abundant, stimulating, informative, and entertaining material with

721
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: which to spend the many long haul flights and waiting

722
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: time and airport terminals that is my current pretty awesome life.

723
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: I think the work you're doing on the podcast is

724
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 1: nothing short of a brilliant contribution to birthing a new

725
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: era of feminists. Since I discovered the podcast, I have

726
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: also reawakened as a feminist. I am consequently outraged on

727
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: a more regular basis and sharing that with others, but

728
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: also having more fun. Gosh, I'm Rika, thank you, she writes.

729
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: I've also shared the podcast for a few good guy

730
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: friends of mine, and they are all enjoying it very much.

731
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: It's great because it gives us new things to talk about,

732
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: deepens our friendships in new ways, and I can almost

733
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: hear their eyes creaking open just a little wider WhatsApp

734
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: message I received today after one was apparently listening to

735
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: a history of panties. Read now I understand the rag reference.

736
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: They seem to be enjoying you both as personalities as well.

737
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: That's why I'd like to propose for a future podcast

738
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: or three that you pick up the growing engagement of

739
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: men and feminism in light of gamer Gate, campus rates,

740
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: female general mutilation, ISIS, and the myriad atrocities leveled at

741
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: women in just today's Twitter feed. It gives me hope

742
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: to have strong, solid male friends in my life who

743
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: want to do more but don't know how, and to

744
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: think about all those men like them who stand in solidarity,

745
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: even if it's silently. I'd like to see those courageous

746
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: voices amplified and celebrated and encourage wherever possible, because we

747
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: need them, and we female feminists need to make it

748
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: safer more of them to enter the fray. Thanks for

749
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: all you do, and thank you for your letter. Yeah,

750
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: I love that idea and listeners. If you have suggestions

751
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: for a great male feminist thought leader, we could talk

752
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: to suggestions. We welcome them. H that was a weird

753
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: syntax put that in. I've got a letter here from

754
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: Laura about our Brownie's episode from a while back. She said,

755
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for your Geek Girl episodes

756
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: women in cartooning and comics were both amazing. I also

757
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: love your cosplay episode and can't wait for more geek

758
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: Girl pods. The Brownie episode really hit home with me.

759
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm a Pegas sister from way back in the beginning

760
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: and love the newest cartoon. It's beautifully animated and the

761
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: stories teach very valuable lessons. About a week before the

762
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: episode aired, I met a mother of a young Brownie

763
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: who tried to explain the merits of the show to me,

764
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: and I could only smile at her and say, I

765
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: know I watched the show. I'm glad to know her

766
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: three year old son will grow into a car and

767
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: compassionate man one day because of the lessons of my

768
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: little pony. And I only wish I could have recommended

769
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: your podcast to her. Thanks for the wonderful podcast and

770
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: keep up the good work, and she said, PS love

771
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: the clitterest the episode, but couldn't get past the title

772
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: of the squirting episode. L O L Hey, don't let

773
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: the don't let the word squirting scare you, Laura. We

774
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: promise if you liked the clitteracy episode, you'll love the

775
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: squirting A. Yeah, it's almost the clitteracy follow up, so

776
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: you can do it and we promise. But if you

777
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: have letters to send to us, Mom stuff at how

778
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: stupworks dot com is our email address and for links

779
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: to all of our social media as well as all

780
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcast with this one including

781
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: links to all of those studies about women in construction.

782
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: If you want to read more, head on over to

783
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for more on

784
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it have stuff

785
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: works dot com