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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and this is Amantha, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to stuff I've never told to your protection of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios. How stuff works. Today, listeners were tackling a

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Speaker 1: big topic, M huge huge um, sexuality. Yeah yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: there is a lot to say here and we're probably

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Speaker 1: going to expound on some of it in future episodes. Um.

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Speaker 1: But first we wanted to start with a kind of

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Speaker 1: primer on sex versus gender versus sexuality. And let's go

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Speaker 1: ahead and say there are some SKay topics not necessarily

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Speaker 1: too graphic, but just in case you don't want any

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Speaker 1: of the youths to hear this from us necessarily before

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Speaker 1: you vet it, I mean you, the listener, You may

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Speaker 1: want to take a pause, come back to it, and

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Speaker 1: then if you feel it's so appropriate, go for it.

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Speaker 1: Just put that warning out good notes amanthem Alright, So,

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Speaker 1: I imagine most people are familiar with this, but we thought,

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Speaker 1: since we're going to be using a lot of these terms,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll just go ahead and say what they are.

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Speaker 1: So sex is also called physical or biological sex, and

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Speaker 1: this is based on physical characteristics, hormones, and genes. And

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Speaker 1: we know that this can be more complicated than a

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Speaker 1: lot of people believe as clear cut as a lot

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Speaker 1: of people like to make it. Perhaps, Um, there's male, female,

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Speaker 1: and intersex, and intersex is when physical characteristics typical of

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Speaker 1: both sexes are present. Then there's gender, which is the

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Speaker 1: societal performance around biological sex, being masculine or being feminine.

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Speaker 1: Some identifies both, some identify as neither, Some identify as

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Speaker 1: the opposite of their biological sex. And this brings us

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Speaker 1: to so sxuality actuality. Yes, sexuality refers to the people

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Speaker 1: you are physically are romantically attractive to. And yes, this

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Speaker 1: is can also be more complicated than a lot of

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Speaker 1: people like to think, right, or that we for a

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Speaker 1: long time have thought that right. And as we are

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Speaker 1: more and more open about it, the labels or the

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Speaker 1: titles are slowly either becoming more broad or disappearing altogether. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and sexuality is complex and deeply personal. It also is

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Speaker 1: frequently more fluid than we have thought of it in

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Speaker 1: the past. Um, And it can be confusing. I can

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Speaker 1: I can raise my hand to that one. It's all

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Speaker 1: about how you choose to identify. Not that sexual orientation

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Speaker 1: is the choice, but the label that you choose that

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Speaker 1: and you don't even have to label it. Nope, you don't. Also,

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Speaker 1: when I was typing in sexuality the old Google, one

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Speaker 1: of the top results came up seventeen types of sexuality.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of options out there, why I mean,

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Speaker 1: And we were talking about the polyamory Polly world in

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Speaker 1: its why arrays as well have different titles. As you

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Speaker 1: said earlier, it's very personal, so you don't owe anyone

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Speaker 1: an explanation in the story. Yes, yes, um, So some

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Speaker 1: popular ways people have chosen to identify their straight, gay,

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Speaker 1: lesbian by pan or pan sexual, Polly, a sexual or

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Speaker 1: ace fluid queer. There are a lot of labels out there, right, um,

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Speaker 1: and then there are a lot of folks skewing labels entirely.

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Speaker 1: And you know what. Some of that has to do

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Speaker 1: with education and understanding, um. Specifically in my job filled

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Speaker 1: we actually had to have training statewide um to talk

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Speaker 1: about these labels in the misdirection and or misunderstanding of

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Speaker 1: what it can be, it can look like, and how

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Speaker 1: it should be acknowledged. So it's a big thing. It

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Speaker 1: has been to the point that people are starting to

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Speaker 1: actually learn about it and educate themselves or at least

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Speaker 1: educate their staff as we are going along with this

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Speaker 1: time frame. Of course, attitudes that are slightly turning again unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: but it is still good to know that there are

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Speaker 1: those out there that do understand that this needs to

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Speaker 1: be talked about and this needs to be something that

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Speaker 1: people are educated about. Yes, absolutely, because I think if

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Speaker 1: you don't ever see yourself represented in media or just

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Speaker 1: in in general in our real world, um, you might

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Speaker 1: not know. Like for me, I think for a long

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Speaker 1: time I was trying to fit into a certain thing

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Speaker 1: because I didn't really know right there were other things,

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Speaker 1: other ways that I might identify. And getting this education

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Speaker 1: around it, I see, And it is a spectrum. I

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Speaker 1: know that term is kind of like trendy, but it

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Speaker 1: is trendy because it's more relatable and actually more accurate. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's why it's trendy. Absolutely, it's trendy because it's true.

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Speaker 1: And a note about queer because a few of you

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Speaker 1: have written in and asked about it. Queer can be

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Speaker 1: used to mean any non hetero orientation and or if

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Speaker 1: none of the labels, the other labels quite encapsulate your experience.

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Speaker 1: And a note about a sexuality. As I've said, still

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Speaker 1: figuring this whole thing out. But I very rarely, almost

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Speaker 1: never feel sexual attraction. And there are a couple of

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Speaker 1: types of a sexuality. And we're actually bringing someone in

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Speaker 1: to speak specifically about this in the future, so look

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Speaker 1: forward to that. But just a kind of brief explanation.

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Speaker 1: There's gray a sexuality, which describes someone who might feel

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Speaker 1: sexual attraction only after an intense emotional bond with someone.

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Speaker 1: I think this is where I am, or maybe sort

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Speaker 1: of a mixture of both, and some A sexuals never

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Speaker 1: experienced sexual attraction. There, there's a variety of experiences and

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Speaker 1: you know, um, it could be said that that could

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Speaker 1: be true for anybody's sexuality. Anybody who has a label

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Speaker 1: or feels attraction. A lot of people cannot feel like

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Speaker 1: sexually attracted unless it's an emotional bond. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I've had a guy friend who was this very similar

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Speaker 1: to that, says like I don't want anything to do

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Speaker 1: with it unless I really care love them, And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he would call himself a sexual. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's married and happily living his life. Um, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's not so abnormal to be said for

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Speaker 1: in relationships in general. Right, There's another subset called auto

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Speaker 1: chorus sexuality, which is when there's a disconnect between the

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Speaker 1: person and the object of sexual desire. Um. And I

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Speaker 1: remember personally when all my friends started feeling sexual attraction

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Speaker 1: and I did it, and I was just like faking it,

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Speaker 1: laughing along with them and be like, oh, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: so hot. Um, and I felt so out of place.

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Speaker 1: But I thought, surely one day a switch will flip

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Speaker 1: and I'll feel it and I'll fit in, And it

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Speaker 1: just never really happened. That's okay too. It is also

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Speaker 1: todd On BoJack Horsemen is probably one of the first

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Speaker 1: times I've ever seen in a sexual character in media

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Speaker 1: that I've consumed something else that comes into play, or

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Speaker 1: things like bi romantic just romantic interest in those sexes

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Speaker 1: and a romantic experiencing sexual attraction but not romantic attraction.

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Speaker 1: And sexuality also encompasses sexual attitudes, values, and fantasies. From

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Speaker 1: the World Health Organization quote essential aspect of being human

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Speaker 1: throughout life encompasses sex, gender identities and roles, sexual orientation, eroticism, pleasure, intimacy,

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Speaker 1: and reproduction. Sexuality is experienced and expressed and thoughts, fantasies, desires, beliefs, attitudes, values, behaviors, practices, rules,

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Speaker 1: and relationships. While sexuality can include all of these dimensions,

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Speaker 1: not all of them are all is experienced or expressed.

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Speaker 1: Sexuality is influenced by the interaction of biological, physiological, social, economic, political, cultural, legal, historical, religious,

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Speaker 1: and spiritual factors. So a lot there you go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that attribute to your sexuality.

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Speaker 1: There are, um, and as we discussed before, the whole

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Speaker 1: concept of sexuality has become more fluid, which also can

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Speaker 1: be a part of the similarities of the label of

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Speaker 1: bisexuality and pain sexuality and by definition bisexuality is references

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Speaker 1: with the idea of only two genders as where pen

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Speaker 1: sexuality is more inclusive and recognize the sexuality as more

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Speaker 1: than just two but includes trans, non binary, and gender queer.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it was really important that we kind

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Speaker 1: of break these down a little further because even for

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Speaker 1: me um, learning about these different types of labels and

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Speaker 1: understanding what this is kind of opens your eyes to, oh,

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Speaker 1: these are the possibilities and or this makes sense in

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Speaker 1: the idea of the fluidity of sexuality and just understanding

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Speaker 1: ourselves as women and the desires that we want in general,

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Speaker 1: and I also wanted to break down the Polly relationships

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Speaker 1: um as it specifies with possible gender labels. For one

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Speaker 1: man and more than one woman is polygony, and for

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Speaker 1: one woman and more than one man is polyandry. And

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Speaker 1: obviously that this is a very gender normative specific title,

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Speaker 1: but if you want to kind of look within that,

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Speaker 1: there's also the stereotype of the idea of unicorn hunting,

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Speaker 1: which is in the polity community, finding the bisexual woman

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Speaker 1: a k the jewel, and according to one article, this

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Speaker 1: is usually something that can cause more hiccups in a

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Speaker 1: relationship than anything and often not successful in the long run.

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Speaker 1: And again it's kind of more of a cliche than

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Speaker 1: anything else in the community. And with that, there's even

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Speaker 1: even bigger breakdown of titles within the relationships, including ethical

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Speaker 1: non monogamy, which is the overarching term that includes Polly

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Speaker 1: swinging and as such, and then other titles like hierarchical,

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Speaker 1: non hierarchical, tryout, quad and fluid and conversy. And I'll

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Speaker 1: just put that in there when breaking it down even deeper, um,

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Speaker 1: you can know that these types of relationships is very

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Speaker 1: loyal based and open because of the level of trust

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Speaker 1: involved in openness of communications, which I did find fascinating

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Speaker 1: when you start like reading into different people's relationships, different

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Speaker 1: people's actual experiences, it shows this whole need and whole

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Speaker 1: necessity of communicating with each other. It's kind of understandable

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Speaker 1: why this could be a beautiful thing. And and and

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Speaker 1: it can actually work because they have to communicate, which

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Speaker 1: is oftentimes what breaks now in a relationship in general.

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Speaker 1: And it's not as so the show Big Love, which

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Speaker 1: kind of has this stereotypical Mormon idea of polygamy and

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Speaker 1: kind of has this whole hierarchical type of relationship within

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Speaker 1: and and it it is more of an entertainment idea.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at based off of that and

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Speaker 1: based on reality, what people talk about, how they talk

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Speaker 1: about how this works, it is this understanding of meeting

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Speaker 1: each other's knee. It's as necessary and it's it's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful concept. I know a lot of listeners are written

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Speaker 1: in and there in polyamorous relationships, so that is something

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Speaker 1: we definitely should return to and talk about more right

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Speaker 1: And also, Bridget and I did an episode forever Ago.

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Speaker 1: What seems like forever ago time has no meaning to

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Speaker 1: me anymore, um about pan sexuality versus bisexuality and how

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of the terms changing. But again

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Speaker 1: it has to do with like what you what makes

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Speaker 1: sense to you and you feel and again just kind

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Speaker 1: of opening up and realizing these they are there are

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Speaker 1: these types of relationships that are bigger than just a

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Speaker 1: small label. Yeah. Absolutely we have some more to talk

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Speaker 1: about with you listeners, but first we have a quick

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Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored. If we think about the popular view

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Speaker 1: on women in sexuality, I would argue that it's been

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Speaker 1: painted in more complicated, shall we say, terms as compared

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Speaker 1: to men's. Um, women are mysterious, their desires are mysterious,

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Speaker 1: and their desires are different from men's. Men are from Mars,

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Speaker 1: women are from Venus, as it were. But recent studies

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Speaker 1: are showing more and more that this is not necessarily

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Speaker 1: the case, right and still many people still believe this though.

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Speaker 1: The new sex strike that we were recently talking about

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Speaker 1: has brought out a lot of men who are burning

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Speaker 1: themselves pretty much stating women don't enjoy sex like men

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Speaker 1: and don't need it as much as men a k A.

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Speaker 1: They can't pleasure. Women have never experienced pleasuring a woman apparently.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say that because obviously,

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Speaker 1: if you feel that strongly that women cannot be pleasured,

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Speaker 1: and you know this says the man, you're doing something wrong.

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Speaker 1: I just want to tell you that. I just want

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Speaker 1: to tell you that I'm sorry. Again. I'm very open

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Speaker 1: about the fact that I do very much enjoy sex,

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Speaker 1: and I do very much. Um, I need to be

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Speaker 1: laid on sometimes, you know, and for me, if it's

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Speaker 1: not enjoyable, I'm not gonna do it right. In the

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Speaker 1: story we're giving each other, we're very intu wish we

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Speaker 1: can't camera right now about how fierce we are looking

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Speaker 1: at you like maha, yeah, girl, say it hmm wow.

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Speaker 1: For a long time, science has seemingly supported this popular

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Speaker 1: opinion that women's sexuality and sexual desire is more complicated

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Speaker 1: than men's. And I'm sure some of you saw these

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Speaker 1: popular science headlines like men think about sex more frequently

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Speaker 1: than women, they masturate more than women, etcetera. A lot

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Speaker 1: of these studies were flawed and they lacked women involved

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Speaker 1: in the research, both on the scientist side and on

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Speaker 1: the subject side. According to a professor of psychology. Sorry

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Speaker 1: von Hoder's quote. In almost all areas of research, men

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Speaker 1: are understood to be humans and women are understood as

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Speaker 1: gender or a special case. Things can seem complicated when

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Speaker 1: they differ from a standard. In other words, men are

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Speaker 1: the human body standard and women are deviation from the

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Speaker 1: human body state. Right, and again, I think this is

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Speaker 1: another tale of how men and I don't mean all

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Speaker 1: men are playing hashtag got all. Well, I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: I've been with those who understand the female body a

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Speaker 1: little better than others and have recognized, whether it's from

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Speaker 1: actually paying attention to anatomy or actually researching or whatever,

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Speaker 1: what women do enjoy don't enjoy, or rather are communicating

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Speaker 1: with women to find out what they do or don't,

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Speaker 1: or those who identify as female what they ende a way,

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Speaker 1: because even though yes, we are different, each woman in

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Speaker 1: ourselves have different appreciations and different likes, So obviously you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to plan out exactly what is there and

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Speaker 1: what isn't there. Was comfortable, it was not comfortable in

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Speaker 1: the story done Yeah again, communication all the time, um

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Speaker 1: history rise, researching women's sexuality was seen as taboo and

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Speaker 1: or not worth the time or money, so women were

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Speaker 1: excluded from a lot of studies on the subject. Alfred

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Speaker 1: Kinsey's nineteen fifty three books Sexual Behavior and the Human Female,

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Speaker 1: which included accounts from six thousand women, was so scandalous

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Speaker 1: Congress investigated into where Kinsey got his money. Can't be

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Speaker 1: spending women money on women? Come home? No. When Van

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Speaker 1: Anders was a student, um and she's the one I

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Speaker 1: quoted earlier, she noticed that all the anatomical diagrams of

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Speaker 1: nerves were of men, which are generally the same, but

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Speaker 1: not when it comes to sexual organs. When she asked

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Speaker 1: a professor about it, he kind of shrugged, like who cares, yea,

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Speaker 1: we care. Research into female sexuality really didn't start happening

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Speaker 1: until the nineteen nineties and two thousands. A two thousand

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Speaker 1: eleven report on a study conducted to a sensory map

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Speaker 1: of women was the first of its kind, meaning we

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Speaker 1: had no idea if genital stimulation for women lit up

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Speaker 1: the same parts of the brain as it did for men.

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Speaker 1: Turns out they do. It do correlate to meends surprise,

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Speaker 1: but it also showed that there are some differences. Study

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Speaker 1: found that sexual desire is actually complicated for everybody again surprise,

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Speaker 1: and men and women experience it in pretty much the

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Speaker 1: same way. It also found that, contrary to popular believe

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Speaker 1: that sexual desire does not typically express itself and spontaneous

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Speaker 1: and a spontaneous, animalistic kind of way. Meaning yet that yes,

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Speaker 1: men desire emotional connection a lot of times too, write um.

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Speaker 1: Other studies on both heterosexual and homosexual people found that

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Speaker 1: when shown sexually explicit videos of their preference, they experienced

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Speaker 1: desire in similar ways, and another recent survey of four

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Speaker 1: thousand Americans found that men and women fantasized similarly and

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Speaker 1: reported similar reasons for wanting sex pleasure mostly Right, studies

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Speaker 1: into testosterone I've shown that his impact on sex drive

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Speaker 1: is not as clear cut as we previously thought, nor

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Speaker 1: is the spike of desire attached to ovulation. Men can

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Speaker 1: experience spikes and false too, depending on a variety of factors. Right,

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Speaker 1: And all of those kind of made me delve into

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Speaker 1: women in porn because I think it's fascinating subject in itself,

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Speaker 1: and I know people are talking about it a little more.

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Speaker 1: Couples have talked about it a little more as part

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Speaker 1: of their activity. Um. But according to an article I

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Speaker 1: read it said. Porn Hub reported a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: six million people viewed the site in I think early

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, so last year, and a quarter of those

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Speaker 1: people or were identified as women. So what I think

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Speaker 1: you and I are counting out nubers. At least starting

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Speaker 1: eight million women went to look at the site, and

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Speaker 1: according to an article from The Daily Dot, uh, they

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Speaker 1: talked about the fact that one in three of the

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Speaker 1: viewers of porn are actually women, which I really was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that makes sense. And they also talk about the

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Speaker 1: fact that women enjoy viewing just as much as men. Um.

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Speaker 1: They enjoy watching women on women. They like the plots,

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Speaker 1: they enjoy watching it by themselves plots. Yes, so when

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Speaker 1: they have like the milkman coming to deliver you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: and or you know, all those different fantasy ideas, they

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Speaker 1: want the plot. They want the plot of the milkman coming. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they want to know why did the milkman come through? Um.

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Speaker 1: But it did also talk about the fact that the

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Speaker 1: women spend a longer time watching porn than men. I

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Speaker 1: think it was like a minute less, yeah, a minute

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Speaker 1: less than women, which I've found fascinating. But they did

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Speaker 1: talk about the fact, but maybe it takes a little

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Speaker 1: while longer for women to be stimulated or they actually

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Speaker 1: are enjoying the plot as we just said, so therefore

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Speaker 1: they watch were a little longer. But I thought that

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Speaker 1: was something to be said. Um, when we talk about

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Speaker 1: the porn things, and then we do have to talk

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Speaker 1: about back and forth about the misogynistic ideas within porn

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Speaker 1: as well, and and what is healthy and what is unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: It's such a fine line. But I think that's also

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Speaker 1: just opens up again about the fact that women do

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Speaker 1: have vast fantasies as well as men, as well as

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Speaker 1: desires that are different from your every day I need

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Speaker 1: to make babies, yeah, which I would say is the same.

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Speaker 1: I know you and I are talking about um sex

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Speaker 1: toys later on. Obviously there's female sex toys out there

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Speaker 1: because we do enjoy pleasure, end of story, and it

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Speaker 1: should be noticed they should be um regarded as something

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Speaker 1: that is normal m hm. And just to have a

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Speaker 1: conversation how to pleasure yourself because of all things, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to know that. We all need to know that. Yeah. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I feel like every episode is homework for

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Speaker 1: future episodes. Which really is I like, UM, no no

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Speaker 1: shorts of topics to to tackle. But UM, we have

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Speaker 1: a little bit more to talk about. But first we

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Speaker 1: have one more quick break for word from our sponsor

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Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you, spotsors. A lot of women

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Speaker 1: have written in about the question of UM, feminist porn

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Speaker 1: and can porn be feminist? And there are certain initiatives

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Speaker 1: and certain people working the field to make feminist porn,

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Speaker 1: so I would love to talk about that and the future. UM.

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Speaker 1: Also before we close out here, marking up the waters

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Speaker 1: of this whole thing is gender norms. UM. Men tend

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Speaker 1: to overreport sexual desire because they're expected to, and women

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Speaker 1: tend to under report because they're right because women are

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Speaker 1: still taught to be a shame of their sexuality still UM,

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Speaker 1: and therefore it's going to admit if you're based on

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Speaker 1: a shame factor. Yeah, exactly. So UM, A lot more

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Speaker 1: research needs to be done having these open conversations, but UM,

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Speaker 1: I think there's much more vast there's vaster experiences out

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Speaker 1: there than we previously have recognized. UM, and I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that we're being more right open about it and and

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Speaker 1: and just so uh, you guys, the audience that understand

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Speaker 1: know that we are going to be talking about swinging

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Speaker 1: and open relationships a little more um in depth later on.

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Speaker 1: I think for any and I, both of us are

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Speaker 1: not necessarily in those types of relationships, or in relationships

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Speaker 1: at all, So therefore we don't have as much to

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Speaker 1: say other than researching what it looks like and how

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Speaker 1: it can be and understanding these types of relationships. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's also good to know obviously we've condensed

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Speaker 1: this down vastly, and what we're opening up to is

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Speaker 1: understanding sexuality and pleasure and women and and and whether

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Speaker 1: how it affects us every days. As we're talking at

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Speaker 1: this time once again about women's bodies, reproduction, women's rights,

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Speaker 1: it has to be kind of like the basis of

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Speaker 1: you've got to understand women and who they are, and

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Speaker 1: what they enjoy and what they don't enjoy, and what

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Speaker 1: the purpose of sex and what the purpose of everything else,

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Speaker 1: and I'm periods and in all of those other things,

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Speaker 1: and pregnancies are not wanting being pregnant. I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to understand women as humans or those who identify

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Speaker 1: as female as human and understanding that not only are

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Speaker 1: we trying to understand ourselves and fight for the common

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Speaker 1: desires to have whatever relationships, non relationships, sex life, whatever

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Speaker 1: that looks like. That it is a part of the

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Speaker 1: things that we're trying to talk about when it comes

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Speaker 1: to our bodies, it comes to our rights, and it

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Speaker 1: comes to our desires and wants. And that's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: how do we even begin this conversation? Well here here, Um, Yeah, women,

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Speaker 1: people who identify as female. We are not a deviant

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Speaker 1: from the norm. We are just people who are being

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Speaker 1: a little to honest maybe or just just honest. That's us.

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Speaker 1: But we would love to hear from listeners your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on um sexuality. We also want to hear if we've

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Speaker 1: made a mistake in some of the research. We want

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Speaker 1: to know all the facts. We want to know your

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Speaker 1: experiences as well if it does contradict some of the

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Speaker 1: things we've said or some of the things that we found,

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Speaker 1: because I think that's absolutely something that's important for us

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Speaker 1: to learn with you, right, always growing and learning together.

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Speaker 1: And you can email us at our new email address,

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Speaker 1: STEPH Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. The

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Speaker 1: old email will still work. Do not panic. Do not panic, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you can find us on social media. You can

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Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on

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Speaker 1: Instagram at Stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always

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Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard Andrew, and thanks to

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Speaker 1: you for listening. Stuff. I'm Never Told You's a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio's How Step Works. For more podcasts

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Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app

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