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Speaker 3: Slash b Ball.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to tonight. You're at the volume eppy Thursday. Everybody,

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Speaker 2: oh ball, If you guys are having a great week.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into listening a little different today

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Speaker 2: since we had no games on Wednesday night, this kind

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Speaker 2: of weird break here in the middle of the season.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do something for fun. So what I

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Speaker 2: did is I kind of went through the NBA standings

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Speaker 2: and through the NBA current statistical leaders, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to just kind of find some toss ups, a couple

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Speaker 2: of different comparisons between teams or players that I've view

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Speaker 2: pretty closely ranked to each other so that we can

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Speaker 2: just have a little bit of fun here in this

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Speaker 2: little first tent poll, this first one third of the

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Speaker 2: season that we've got through. But before we get into that, though,

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Speaker 2: we're having the guys from Nerd Sash, Carson, and Logan

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Speaker 2: on today. I want to give you guys a chance

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Speaker 2: to give your initial impressions off of the n Season

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Speaker 2: Tournament Championship game. I personally we're recording this on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: I have not had a chance to watch it yet.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be watching it right after we finished this recording,

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to give you guys a chance to

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Speaker 2: give me your take on last night's game. So, as

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Speaker 2: I saw from the box score, looks like the Thunder

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Speaker 2: offense shut down. I've had some concerns surrounding the Thunders

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Speaker 2: offense all season as it pertains to their decision making

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Speaker 2: and just their willingness to really like work for.

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Speaker 4: The best shot.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with you, Carson, what was your impression of

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Speaker 2: last night's game? Talk a little bit about what Milwaukee

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Speaker 2: did well and what you're concerned about with the Thunder

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Speaker 2: moving forward.

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Speaker 5: I thought it very much was a two sided deal

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Speaker 5: where I was both very impressed by Milwaukee and it

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Speaker 5: felt like this was sort of the crystallization of everything

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Speaker 5: that they've been doing well for this stretch in which

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Speaker 5: they've turned their season around. They've won thirteen of their

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Speaker 5: last sixteen games now after their two and eight start.

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Speaker 5: And at the same time, it was the worst case

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Speaker 5: scenario for the Thunder offensively, like if you take every

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Speaker 5: concern that you have about them and dial it up

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Speaker 5: to ten, that's what this game was. So you mentioned

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Speaker 5: the decision making. I did think that that was an issue.

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Speaker 5: I thought that it started with Shay. I thought that

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Speaker 5: he was taking too many pull up threes for me

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Speaker 5: in a game when those shots were not falling, and

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Speaker 5: specifically because.

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Speaker 4: The Thunder were in a slump.

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Speaker 5: I would have liked to see him try to work

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Speaker 5: his way to some higher percentage shots.

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Speaker 4: But Audrey Jackson also did a.

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Speaker 5: Phenomenal job on him and was consistently cutting off his

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Speaker 5: driving angle. So he was just living on this very

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Speaker 5: very difficult shot diet. He wasn't getting downhill to create

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Speaker 5: for other teammate it's very much as well, So he's

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Speaker 5: not only super inefficient in this game, he only has

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Speaker 5: two assists. They were basically relying on him to create everything,

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Speaker 5: as they often do, but he just was not creating

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Speaker 5: the shot quality for himself or others that you're accustomed to,

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Speaker 5: and Jadub was just okay, and the spot up shooting

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Speaker 5: around them was horrible. I mean, Okase went five of

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Speaker 5: thirty two from three in this game. So when you're

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Speaker 5: relying on Shay to create everything and he's off and

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Speaker 5: he's living off a shot diet and nobody around him

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Speaker 5: can make a shot, obviously you're going to have a really.

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Speaker 4: Bad offensive performance.

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Speaker 5: And that's not what you ever expect to see from

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Speaker 5: OKC because this is a good offense, but you know

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Speaker 5: that that's in there, and this was the extreme version

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Speaker 5: of that. So in terms of like actual concerns, I

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Speaker 5: think this team desperately needs chet Holmgren back because I

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Speaker 5: thought he was playing at such a high level offensively

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Speaker 5: early in the year and was doing more as a driver,

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Speaker 5: was doing more with the ball in his hands, was

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Speaker 5: more aggressive. If you get back in another super efficient,

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Speaker 5: twenty point per game versatile score like him, I think

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Speaker 5: that helps this offense in a whole lot of ways.

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Speaker 5: I do wonder though, when we hold them up to

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Speaker 5: the standard of a Boston if they do need another

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Speaker 5: actual ball handler with some juice, just because right now

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Speaker 5: it is shay Jada check. When he gets back, everything

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Speaker 5: is on you, and nobody around you is any sort

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Speaker 5: of advantage creator. Everybody is basically a pure spot up shooter,

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Speaker 5: or some of these guys are high IQ cutters, but

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Speaker 5: they're also very inconsistent spot up shooters. Right Cason Wallace

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Speaker 5: has had a bad shooting season. Lou Dord has had

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Speaker 5: a very good shooting season, but he had a bad

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Speaker 5: shooting game, and I thought that he also forced up

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Speaker 5: some threes that I didn't love. Caruso has had a

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Speaker 5: horrible shooting season. So you just look around and it's

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Speaker 5: like the job of these guys is to be reliable

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Speaker 5: spot up shooters, and that's not what all of them are.

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Speaker 5: So those are really the problems with Okasee offense. But

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Speaker 5: like I said, I thought that Milwaukee did a great

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Speaker 5: job defensively. I thought that Andre Jackson was awesome. I

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Speaker 5: thought that Jannis was really good defensively in this game,

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Speaker 5: and he has just been playing at such an unbelievably

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Speaker 5: high level as of late, and I think that's not

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Speaker 5: just because he's better than he's ever been offensively, which

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Speaker 5: he onequivocally is. I think also as Milwaukee's turned around

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Speaker 5: their season defensively, Giannis is playing at a level that

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Speaker 5: we didn't see from him early in the year, we

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Speaker 5: didn't see really last year. On the defensive end, He's

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Speaker 5: got four straight games with three or more blocks, so

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Speaker 5: holding opposing players ten percent below their typical field goal

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Speaker 5: percentage at the rim over these last fifteen games. And

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Speaker 5: I just think that they found the right two way

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Speaker 5: players because my concerns with Milwaukee early in the year

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Speaker 5: and last year, we're always just about how do they

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Speaker 5: turn around this perimeter defense which had been an absolute disaster,

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Speaker 5: and Andre Jackson is phenomenal there.

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Speaker 4: I do worry just a bit about his playability.

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Speaker 5: As a key piece offensively in the playoffs, because they

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Speaker 5: need him so much for this point of attack defense.

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Speaker 5: Last night was rough for him offensively because he only

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Speaker 5: goes one of six and basically, okay see wasn't guarding

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Speaker 5: him and teams are gonna dare him to make shots.

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Speaker 4: But he's been so good for their defense.

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Speaker 5: J Green is a good perimeter defender and is like

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Speaker 5: the most efficient spot up shooter and the most efficient

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Speaker 5: jump shooter in basketball, I think you tweeted out. So

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Speaker 5: he's a weapon. He's a really good two way player

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Speaker 5: and that's just what they haven't had. And then Jannis

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Speaker 5: was just incredible as he has been for this season,

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Speaker 5: but especially this last fifteen game stretch. But there isn't

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Speaker 5: a tougher matchup for ok See defensively than Yannis because

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Speaker 5: this Oka See defense is so incredible. But they're small

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Speaker 5: and Giannis just goes through them. And especially when you

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Speaker 5: don't have a chet for some additional rim protection. At

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Speaker 5: the very least, you don't have a Jay Will who's

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Speaker 5: a six eight two point fifty.

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Speaker 4: Body you can throw at.

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Speaker 5: Jannison is the king of taking charges, right, just another

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Speaker 5: big duty you could put.

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Speaker 4: In front of him.

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Speaker 5: They didn't have that, and so they're trying to put

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Speaker 5: Lou on him. They have Hartenstein on him in stretches,

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Speaker 5: who I thought did the best job. There are stretches

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Speaker 5: where Caruso ends up on him and he just goes

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Speaker 5: through him.

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Speaker 4: Like tissue paper.

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Speaker 5: I actually thought okay See did a pretty good job

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Speaker 5: of loading up the paint and forcing Giannis to beat them.

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Speaker 5: As a playmaker, and forcing dudes around him to beat

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Speaker 5: okay See with their shooting. But Giannis was great as

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Speaker 5: a playmaker, and the Bucks had a really good three

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Speaker 5: point shooting day and Giannis was still able to get

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Speaker 5: his pretty efficiently. So I think the Bucks are really good,

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Speaker 5: and I think that they've proven that, and I think

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Speaker 5: that this game was a big moment for them because

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Speaker 5: they did beat such a good opponent so convincingly. I'm

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Speaker 5: probably not as concerned about Okasee as some other people

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Speaker 5: are from just this game. I just thought it was

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Speaker 5: like their nightmare scenario. But it did show you concerns

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Speaker 5: that are real for them, especially when Chet isn't on

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Speaker 5: the floor.

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Speaker 1: I mean, especially when you think back to how they

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Speaker 1: lost in the playoffs last year, and that was basically

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Speaker 1: the Mavericks formula. Right, they load up on Sga, they

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Speaker 1: throw a ton of double teams at him, force him

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Speaker 1: to be a playmaker, and the thunder ran cold.

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Speaker 3: From behind the arc.

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Speaker 1: Right they shoot thirty three point five percent in that

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Speaker 1: series and just can't muster anything up. I agree with

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Speaker 1: a lot of what you said. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: ton to add. I thought Giannis was by far the

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Speaker 1: best player on the court last night on All Fast.

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Speaker 1: It's rebound bounding, defensively, offensively. And I do think this

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Speaker 1: is a really bad matchup for Oklahoma City too, because

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Speaker 1: it's not only just Yanna specifically in this matchup too,

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Speaker 1: You're dealing with big bodies like Brook Lopez, with like

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Speaker 1: Bobby Portis, where you know, in some matchups those guys

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Speaker 1: may be relatively ineffective because Oklahoma City is so small,

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Speaker 1: it just made everything a little bit harder on the

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Speaker 1: glass and stuff like that. But I do think people

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Speaker 1: are going to probably run with this a little farther

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Speaker 1: than they need to because this is on a national stage,

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Speaker 1: because it was the only national game that a lot

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Speaker 1: of Ohs were on the NBA Cup. And I do

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Speaker 1: think it shows you Okay sees flaws, but you're gonna

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Speaker 1: see it.

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Speaker 3: On the broadcast.

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Speaker 1: They mentioned this, I think a million times, Jason, the

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Speaker 1: fact that Oklahoma City was hanging around in this game

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Speaker 1: despite their shooting flaws, like because they're consistently only down

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Speaker 1: eight to ten in this game and they are hitting

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Speaker 1: nothing from behind the arc. So while everybody may go

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Speaker 1: negative with Oklahoma City's offense, I do think there is

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Speaker 1: a positive in there in Oklahoma City's defense. They have

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Speaker 1: been person did a video breakdown on them unfortunately yesterday

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Speaker 1: at the Oklahoma City defense, and then they lay a

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Speaker 1: stinker on offense in this game. But they have been

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Speaker 1: historically great, Like I mean historically great. You laid out

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Speaker 1: a bunch of numbers on our show last night, Carson.

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Speaker 1: They're number one in stocks per game all time, mi

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Speaker 1: Ani team. I think there's third and steels per game.

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Speaker 1: They're so good defensive playmaking wise, and that is just

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Speaker 1: what I want to hammer home about this team when

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Speaker 1: everybody's going negative, is they have elite perimeter personnel, they

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Speaker 1: have an elite defensive system. This team plays so connected

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Speaker 1: on the defensive end, and they've been great without Chet Holmgren,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's really important to contextualize.

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Speaker 3: About this team.

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Speaker 1: And that's ultimately why Oklahoma City is great is because

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Speaker 1: of their defense. But when we are holding them up

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Speaker 1: to that championship, you know, contender level, the offense wasn't

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Speaker 1: there at that level last night.

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Speaker 2: You know, My biggest concerns with OKC through this early

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Speaker 2: chunk of the season centered around two things, and it

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Speaker 2: was one, what if a team just SAgs way off

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Speaker 2: of all their mediocre shooters and they go cold. And

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Speaker 2: the reason why I was concerned about that is I've

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Speaker 2: just seen it on a few occasions this season, and

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Speaker 2: it's exactly what Dallas did last year. They were like,

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Speaker 2: beat us case on walls, beat us chet Holmegrin, beat

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Speaker 2: us lou door, Like you're not gonna make enough of

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Speaker 2: these wide open, you know, moderately contested catch and shoot

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Speaker 2: threes to beat us. And like the second piece of it,

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Speaker 2: the second piece that I was concerned about, was just

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Speaker 2: your number two behind Shay is like some combination of

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Speaker 2: Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren, which are just very very

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Speaker 2: young players. And you know, I've heard a lot of

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma City fans in my mentions or in YouTube comments

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Speaker 2: say things like these are good shooters, and I don't

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Speaker 2: disagree necessarily, Like I think that Oklahoma City has a

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Speaker 2: good skill development program. I think a lot of these

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Speaker 2: guys are capable of knocking down shots at a better

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Speaker 2: rate than they've shown. The thing is, though, is like

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Speaker 2: there's something to be said about being comfortable and confident,

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Speaker 2: and it's just really hard to be comfortable and confident

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Speaker 2: in big spots when you're in your early twenties and

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Speaker 2: you're going against grown ass men. It's a real thing,

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Speaker 2: and it's a real reason why. Like you know, Logan,

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Speaker 2: you talked a lot about going negative on OKAC, and

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Speaker 2: I tend to agree with you in general about like

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Speaker 2: overreacting to any sort of singular moment in a situation

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Speaker 2: like this. That said, like the it's not so much

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Speaker 2: to me about whether or not okay See is the

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Speaker 2: favorite to win the Western Conference, or whether or not

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Speaker 2: they're deserving one seed, or whether or not they're a

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Speaker 2: threat to win the title. To me, it's about like

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at these two teams that have a clear

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Speaker 2: talent advantage over the rest of the league in Boston

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Speaker 2: and Oklahoma City, and Boston just looks like a better

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Speaker 2: basketball team beyond the aggregation of talent, and it stems

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Speaker 2: from just like I think, I think their shock creators

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Speaker 2: are just older and wiser and more experienced. I think

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Speaker 2: that their role players are more comfortable and more experienced.

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Speaker 2: And I think that in terms of personnel strengths, I

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Speaker 2: think Oklahoma City has a higher defensive ceiling, but I

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Speaker 2: think Boston clearly has a substantially higher offensive ceiling, And

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Speaker 2: so like for me, and again, like I'll get into

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Speaker 2: more details that those of you guys that are watching this,

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Speaker 2: you will have watched my instant reaction already, so like

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Speaker 2: you'll get a more detailed version of what I thought

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Speaker 2: about the game. But like when I saw that score

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Speaker 2: last night, my first impression was another big game where

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma City's offense kind of like ran out of steam.

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Speaker 2: And it's something that concerns me a little bit. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna get back into that in just a second because

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go right back into Oklahoma City with

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Speaker 2: their next question. But the one thing I wanted to

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Speaker 2: say on the Bucks front, the aj Green Andre Jackson

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Speaker 2: piece is so huge in this regard because if you

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Speaker 2: actually start to look down the down, the down, the

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Speaker 2: depth chart, so to speak, whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 2: If you look at the lineup, it's like you trust

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Speaker 2: Brooke us Giannis. Chris I think has been great since

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Speaker 2: he's come back, even beyond the box court stuff. He

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Speaker 2: just has been such an additional ball handling force to

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Speaker 2: help just kind of grease the wheels for them on offense.

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Speaker 2: You have Dame, It's like this one piece here, this

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Speaker 2: point of attack guy that can knock down a shot

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Speaker 2: is like the number one thing that Milwaukee's been struggling

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Speaker 2: with over the last couple of years. And Andre Jackson

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Speaker 2: and AJ Green just give them two really great options.

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Speaker 2: And Andre Jackson, like I saw some of the highlights

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Speaker 2: of him guarding Shay last night and his lateral quickness

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Speaker 2: and strength and his ability to be kind of physical

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Speaker 2: without picking up fouls, although he has a tendency to

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Speaker 2: pick up fowls from time to time. But like his

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Speaker 2: that is a look that they have that is very

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Speaker 2: physically imposing, but they'll inevitably run into issues like for instance,

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Speaker 2: I saw Sam Vessini tweet out that that Dagenal never

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Speaker 2: tried to actually put Hartenstein ont Andre Jackson, to use

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Speaker 2: him more as a helper to kind of put another

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Speaker 2: layer behind the the Yannis attack, And there will be

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Speaker 2: teams that do that and they might have to change

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Speaker 2: their look. But Aj Green obviously not the type of

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Speaker 2: perimeter defender than Andre Jackson is. He is a credible

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Speaker 2: perimeter defender. I actually have been really impressed by him

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Speaker 2: on that end of the floor this year, and he's

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Speaker 2: a look they can go to that has a certain

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Speaker 2: amount of offensive upside as a guy that can like legitimate,

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Speaker 2: legitimately come flying off of screens and shoot, and on

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Speaker 2: many occasions has been a real release valve for them

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Speaker 2: on the offensive end of the floor this year. And

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Speaker 2: then then you have Gary Trent Junior as an alternative.

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Speaker 2: Look in that sense as well, they have more good

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Speaker 2: basketball players than I think we realize, in large part

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Speaker 2: because a couple of guys finding roles. That Again, when

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Speaker 2: you find a basketball player that slots into a role

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Speaker 2: that makes sense, it always makes them look better, and

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Speaker 2: if you find them in a role that doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 2: they can look worse from time to time. It's just

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Speaker 2: like kind of one of those basketball dynamics. But in general,

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Speaker 2: I think, and we're gonna talk about this when we

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Speaker 2: get to the MVP stuff, but like, yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: just instilled this team with the necessary amount of fight

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Speaker 2: that they needed to actually find out what this team

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Speaker 2: is capable of. And like that, at that first stretch

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Speaker 2: of the season, they just weren't really competing. But when

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Speaker 2: Brooke and Giannis really turned up the defensive intensity there

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Speaker 2: after that ugly start, everyone else kind of fell in line.

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Speaker 2: Then the rotation kind of fell in line. Doc Rivers

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Speaker 2: has done a wonderful job kind of getting guys to

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Speaker 2: buy into their roles. And here we're looking at a

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Speaker 2: serious basketball team that's been on an extended stretch of dominance.

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Speaker 2: So let's get into our toss up questions. First one,

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Speaker 2: I want to stay on Oklahoma City for a minute.

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Speaker 2: Who would you take to win the Western Conference right now?

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Speaker 2: The Dallas Mavericks or the Oklahoma City Thunder.

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Speaker 4: Let's start with you.

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Speaker 3: That's so tough, man.

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Speaker 1: I like both of these teams, and I think at

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Speaker 1: full strength, I will take Oklahoma City. But it really

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Speaker 1: is what you just said, Jason, it's hard not to

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Speaker 1: feel burnt by Oklahoma City in these big moments with

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Speaker 1: these young basketball players consistently. And you know what, I'll

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Speaker 1: cut Shay Gildess Alexander some slack because I think last

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Speaker 1: year against Dallas, I'd only Guessga got enough credit for

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Speaker 1: how well he dealt with double teams and how well

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Speaker 1: he playmated out of those double teams, and the.

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Speaker 3: Shot quality that he consistently generated.

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Speaker 1: Like the reality of that series was Oklahoma City's guys

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Speaker 1: just couldn't hit shots. But it is proven, and I

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Speaker 1: think Dallas matches up with a lot of teams out west.

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Speaker 1: They definitely have two offensive guys that I trust more

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Speaker 1: than Oklahoma City's top two. They're shooting is comparable or

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Speaker 1: better when you factor in like Klay Thompson, and you

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Speaker 1: know that those guys are going to generate a high

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Speaker 1: shot quality around them. I trust Dallas's offense at a

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Speaker 1: different level because they have Kyrie and Luca.

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Speaker 3: I know that even if one of those guys run.

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Speaker 1: Runs cold, that Kyrie can go hot in serve buckets

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Speaker 1: for a quarter or two, or Luca can turn it

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Speaker 1: on in the fourth quarter and step on somebody's neck.

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Speaker 3: And their defense is solid too.

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Speaker 1: It's really close, and Oklahoma City I thought would have this.

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Speaker 1: We'll see what they fully look like when chet Holmer

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Speaker 1: gets back. I expected that we would see them building

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Speaker 1: real distance between them and the number two team out west,

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Speaker 1: and I don't really feel like there's a huge gap

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 3: Again, We'll see what they look like when Check gets back.

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Speaker 3: But I'll lean.

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City because I know what I'm getting in this defense,

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Speaker 1: and I do trust Shay, and I think Jalen will

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Speaker 1: look better and all those things will progress to the means.

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Speaker 1: I think their supporting cast is a lot of good shooters.

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Speaker 1: I think they'll shoot better, so I'll go Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna act like it's not close. I

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Speaker 1: think Dallas is a real threat out West.

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Speaker 2: Before you go, Carson, I'm gonna put you both on

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Speaker 2: the spot real quick. Do you guys agree with me

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Speaker 2: that Dallas is the clear number two in the West?

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Speaker 2: You first, Logan, No, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I actually would have Dallas, And it's really close between

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Speaker 1: my top three.

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Speaker 3: We just had this on our show.

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Speaker 1: I still had Denver number two, and I'm still holding

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Speaker 1: out hope that we get Superstar Jamal Murray because it

403
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Speaker 1: really is the final component. It's Denver's just been so

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Speaker 1: damn inconsistent and then nine on Jokic minutes continue to

405
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Speaker 1: kill them. But the best player in the world factor

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Speaker 1: factors in for me there, and that's why Denver's number two.

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Speaker 1: But it's close between all three of these teams.

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Speaker 5: I have Dallas number two. I would have Denver number three.

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Speaker 5: I think that that ceiling is absolutely free within Denver.

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Speaker 5: It's just Logan mentioned Superstar Jamal Murray. Man, how about

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Speaker 5: we get to good Jamal Murray because it's been so

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Speaker 5: bad and that is so key to them being the

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Speaker 5: basketball team that I expected them to be that we've

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Speaker 5: seen them be before. And Dallas just has such good depth,

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Speaker 5: they have such quality role players. They're a better defensive team.

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Speaker 5: I think again, Denver has that ceiling because when Jamal

417
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 5: is right, that's starting five is a buzzsaw.

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Speaker 4: And I think the bench has probably been better than

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Speaker 4: you would have expected.

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Speaker 5: And they can make a couple moves on the margins too,

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Speaker 5: But right now I would go Dallas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm I think Dallas's roster is just better.

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Speaker 2: I like to put it simply. I just think they

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00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: have more good basketball players. Luca too, like is just

425
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 2: starting to start playing like Luca, And I think there's

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00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 2: a version of this where they rip off a bunch

427
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Speaker 2: of wins and start to look like one of the

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00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 2: top teams. I do think that the like when the

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Speaker 2: debate that the Janis Jokic debate is gonna come up,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure at some point here over the course of

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Speaker 2: the of the next couple of days, and and I

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Speaker 2: think that that's a debate that's worth having. Although I

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Speaker 2: think I still lean Jokich. We may even do that

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Speaker 2: on this show, but like to me, Luca was like

435
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Speaker 2: kind of lagging behind that group, and I still believe that,

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Speaker 2: like he's got to demonstrate for a longer period of

437
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 2: time that he's at that level. But like to me,

438
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 2: the Dallas, when you factor in Luca the upside for him,

439
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: I think he probably will be a little better in

440
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 2: this playoff run. I do think that they are the

441
00:20:47,160 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 2: clear Number Two. Let's go to Carson about a potential

442
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City versus Dallas watching conference finals. Who would you

443
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: take at this point in time?

444
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 5: I do prefer the Thunder, And I thought that the

445
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 5: head to head matchup that we saw between these teams

446
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 5: was kind of illuminating and interesting, and I thought it

447
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 5: provided a contrast to last year. Because I do think

448
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 5: there are several areas in which Okac is better.

449
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,440
Speaker 4: I trust them more. Number one, just the fact.

450
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 5: That Okac was able to actually dominate the offensive glass

451
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 5: with Isaiah Hartenstein was big. And they've been almost an

452
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 5: average rebounding team since iHeart came into the lineup, which

453
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 5: doesn't sound super impressive on its face, but eighteenth and

454
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 5: rebound rate for the Thunder considering what they've been. They

455
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 5: were thirtieth before he debuted this season, that's big because

456
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 5: Dallas convincingly won the offensive glass in their series last year.

457
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 5: I think okay See is much better equipped to be

458
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 5: on even ground there. Oka See shot the ball really

459
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: well in that NBA Cup game, and as we just

460
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 5: saw against the Bucks, right, they're not going to be

461
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 5: consistent there. I had to guess I would think they

462
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 5: shoot better than they did against Dallas in the playoffs

463
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 5: last year if we were to see a series rematch,

464
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 5: because everybody outside of Shaye was thirty percent from deep

465
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 5: in that series. Like, we can talk about these guys

466
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 5: being questionable shooters, but that's pretty bad. So I don't

467
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 5: think you can consider that a home run improvement. But

468
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 5: I probably expect, on average, some improvement from the shooting.

469
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 5: And I do think Jada is better and I do

470
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 5: think chet is significantly better. And that's where we have

471
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 5: to see check back out there on the floor, and

472
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 5: we have to see that he's healthy when he comes

473
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 5: back from this injury, presuming that he does come back

474
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 5: from this injury like that is definitely a big swing

475
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 5: factor in this. But I do think the supporting cast

476
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 5: around Shae has improved, and I thought that Shay was

477
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 5: excellent in that environment. And I also think we can

478
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 5: talk about having questions about Okacs spot up shooting their

479
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 5: role players. Dallas's dudes are going to be tested in

480
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 5: the same way, man, because we can talk about Dallas

481
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 5: roaming off of questionable shooters with their bigs and loading

482
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 5: up the paint and helping hard on Shay's drives. Okay, See,

483
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 5: he is just gonna blitz Luke and Kyrie outright, and

484
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 5: they're gonna test a PJ. Washington making shots. They're gonna

485
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 5: test a Nause Marshall making shots. And either they executed

486
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 5: that formula a good bit better in the NBA Cup

487
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 5: game than they did last year.

488
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: Now, they actually held Dallas to their.

489
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 5: Lowest offensive rating of any Western Conference playoff series that

490
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 5: Dallas played, And I think that gets a little bit lost.

491
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 5: And that was with PJ. Washington shooting way above his means.

492
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 5: That was with Derek Jones Junior shooting above his means.

493
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 5: Like they have this ability to just take the ball

494
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 5: out of Dallas's best players hands, force other people to

495
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 5: make decisions and make shots. And they are the fastest

496
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 5: and the most aggressive defense maybe that I've ever seen.

497
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 4: Like some of the rotations.

498
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 5: There were a couple plays where Luca literally made a

499
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 5: perfect play. Right they're blitzing him, he's under pressure, he

500
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 5: jumps up, fires a skip pass fifty feet cross court.

501
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 5: I mean when you consider the diagonal of it on

502
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 5: a line right into the show shooter's pocket and lou

503
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 5: Dord is just flying in from thirty feet away, and

504
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 5: he's there when the shooter catches the ball, and he's

505
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 5: either gonna contest it really well or he's gonna run

506
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 5: them off the line. Like they're so fast, they're so aggressive,

507
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 5: they're so locked in defensively, like Logan said, that's what

508
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 5: makes Okase special. They're number one right now in terms

509
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 5: of relative defensive rating. They're defensive rating compared to the

510
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: league average that we've.

511
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 4: Seen since the nineteen sixties. Celtics.

512
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 5: They're number one this century in steals per game, number

513
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 5: one in turnovers force per game. They're number one this

514
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 5: year in loose balls recovered per game. They're the best

515
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 5: rim defense this year statistically without Chet, because they have

516
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 5: so much collective improtection. They're so good in terms of

517
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 5: helping like they're number one in field goals made at

518
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 5: the rim allowed and field goal percentage at the rim allowed.

519
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 5: So I just think that gives them such a special floor,

520
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 5: and I have more faith in their key offensive components,

521
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 5: more faith in Jada, more faith in Chet, more faith

522
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 5: marginally in this shooting, and I think that's what swings it.

523
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 5: And Hartenstein is so good. I don't want to sell

524
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 5: short that he does make them more serious on the glass,

525
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 5: just makes them a better basketball team all around. I mean,

526
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 5: in the Bucks game, Hartenstein was basically their best source

527
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 5: of offense because he was efficient with his push shots

528
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 5: and he was really good on the offensive glass. I

529
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 5: do think this OKC team is more grown up. I

530
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 5: know that this isn't the best time to say it

531
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 5: after that Bucks performance, but maybe that is because I'll

532
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 5: get in low on the stock, relatively low. They're twenty

533
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 5: to five with the best net rating in basketball without

534
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 5: their second best player, and people are acting like the

535
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 5: sky is falling. I'm still going to bet on that

536
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 5: team in the West. I think they're too immensely talented,

537
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 5: too great defensively specifically, So I.

538
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: Don't want this to come off as like Oklahoma City pessimism,

539
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 2: because it's not. I think that they still have an

540
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: extremely good chance to win the conference. I think they

541
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: have a pretty solid chance to win the title. Although

542
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: I wouldn't pick them over Boston. I do think that

543
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: a Western Conference Final series between Dallas and Oklahoma City

544
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: would be very long and very close. I think it

545
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 2: would be like a determined and clutch time of Game

546
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: six or Game seven, just like last year's. Was that said,

547
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: I think, and again I've reserved the right to change

548
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: my mind as we get closer to the postseason and

549
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: we get more opportunity to see both of these teams

550
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 2: in the big picture, but I lean very slightly towards

551
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 2: Dallas at this point, and it really just comes down to,

552
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: like they Dallas got exposed in the Boston series for

553
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: the exact same kind of problem that Oklahoma City got

554
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: exposed for in the Western Conference Finals, in the sense

555
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: that they I should say, the Western Conference semi finals,

556
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: just in the sense that like Boston basically started Darren

557
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: guys to knock down shots, specifically above the break, and

558
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: there were kind of like two material changes in Dallas's

559
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: roster this offseason. And I talked about it right after

560
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: the Boston series. I was like, I was like, I

561
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: bet you PJ. Washington just spends the entire summer just

562
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: working on kind of like pick and pop or movement

563
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: threes that are above the break, just like kind of

564
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: quickly getting his feet set and knocking down threes above

565
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 2: the break because it was such a big problem the

566
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: Boston series. He's shooting damn near fifty percent on above

567
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: the break threes this year. Like he's really really stroking

568
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: that ball from outside of the corners in a different

569
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: way than he was last year. Whereas with the additions

570
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: of Quinton Grimes and Klay Thompson, they have additional options

571
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: that they can go to at the point of attack

572
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: depending on the matchup, where they can get even more

573
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: quality above the break shooting. So like Dallas's shooting is

574
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: a lot more resilient this year than it was last year.

575
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: In fact, as a team, as a team, they're about

576
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: a one point five percent ish better above the break

577
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 2: than they were last year, which is actually fourth in

578
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: the entire NBA. They're shooting the ball really, really well

579
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: from out there. Luca was a little bulky and a

580
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 2: little knocked up when he was when he was in

581
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: the postseason last year. I think that there's a version

582
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: of this where they get there a little bit healthier.

583
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 2: There's a continuity factor. Derek Lively, I think is a

584
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: better player this year than he was last year. I

585
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: think Oklahoma City as a unit has gotten better compared

586
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: to last year for obvious reasons, skill additions, also some

587
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: internal improvement. But I also think that the Mavericks have

588
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: gotten a little bit better. And then, you know, when

589
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: I just start to think about like potentially a really intense,

590
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, six seven game series in the conference finals,

591
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: I do tend to lean a little bit more towards

592
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: the experience, and so again razor thin margin, but I

593
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: would I would take Dallas just barely over Oklahoma City

594
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: at this point, and again I reserved the right to

595
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 2: change my mind when we get closer. It's just, dude, like,

596
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: I've just seen too many examples of this. This was Boston,

597
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: this was Boston in twenty twenty two, where it's like

598
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: all year long, you're like, I'm just not sure they

599
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: have the offensive process that they need to get this

600
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: thing done. And then you know, maybe it shines through because,

601
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: by the way, what was amazing about that twenty twenty

602
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: two Boston team. How did they beat everybody? Their defense?

603
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: It was their defense. They killed everybody with their defense.

604
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: And then what ended up happening is they got into

605
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: a big spot and their offense completely crumbled and ended

606
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: up becoming a problem. Uh and so like again, I

607
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: just it's just where I'm at at this specific point

608
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: in time. But let's let's look at some of the

609
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: the players here for a second. There's two different angles

610
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: that I want to go at this from, So let's talk.

611
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: Let's start.

612
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: I think the best Player in the World debate right

613
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: now is coming down to Jannis and Jokic. I think

614
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: the MVP debate is more of like a three horse

615
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: race at this point between Shay, Yannis, and Jokic. Let's

616
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: start with Let's start with the MVP and go from there.

617
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: I think Yannis has a clear leg over SGA at

618
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: this point after what happened last night. That's just too

619
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: much of a burned memory in everybody's brain, big game,

620
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: you know, big spot. Yanis just looks better right that.

621
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: That's gonna that's gonna sit with everybody for a while.

622
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: But between that, between Shay, Janis and Jokic, and we'll

623
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: start with you, Carson, who would you get the MVP

624
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: two at this point? If the season ended today.

625
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 4: Right now, I would give it to Jokic.

626
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 5: It is incredibly close with the level that Jannis is

627
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 5: playing at, and Yokic actually the last couple of games

628
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 5: has had two of his worst games of the season,

629
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 5: so that makes the margin a little bit more narrow.

630
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 5: He's still having, I would say, really beyond a shadow

631
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 5: of a doubt, the greatest offensive regular season that we've

632
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 5: ever seen. He's giving you thirty one thirteen to ten.

633
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 5: He's doing it on unfathomable efficiency, almost sixty five percent

634
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 5: through shooting. He's taken a leap compared to where he

635
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 5: was at last year as a jump shooter. And I

636
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 5: actually think his overall efficiency, even as his jump shooting

637
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 5: regresses to something of a mean very well could go

638
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 5: up because his touch around the rim and in the

639
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 5: paint hasn't been as insane as normal. And you just

640
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 5: look at the load that he's carrying every night, and

641
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 5: you look at the impact because the Denver Nuggets, like

642
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 5: all year have been statistically literally the best offense in

643
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 5: NBA history when he's on the floor, in the worst

644
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 5: offense that we've seen in the modern era this century

645
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: when he's off the floor, and that completely matches the

646
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 5: eye test and that's not just a product of rotations, right.

647
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 5: The Nuggets have actually been more willing to mix in

648
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 5: match lineups this year than ever before because things were

649
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 5: looking so dire with the bench early in the year,

650
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 5: and we've seen Yokic carry these teams to great offensive

651
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 5: results without Jamal Murray, without Aaron Gordon, both those guys

652
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 5: who have missed decent portions of this season. I just

653
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 5: think he creates such a consistently incredibly high shot quality

654
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 5: for this offense in spite of everything that has been

655
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 5: going on around him, where he has been down some

656
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 5: key guys and Jamal has been really bad for most

657
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 5: of this year.

658
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 4: What's tough is.

659
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: The Nuggets haven't been a good team defense, and I

660
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 5: think that Jokic has responsibility in that.

661
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 4: And you can talk about his physical limitations.

662
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 5: I think also, though he's playing so many minutes, he

663
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 5: has such a crazy offensive I don't think that his

664
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 5: effort has been their night to night defensively. I don't

665
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 5: think the Nuggets team effort has been their night tonight defensively,

666
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 5: Whereas Yannis is leading this team that has really turned

667
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 5: things around defensively, and he has been so good there

668
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 5: as of late. While he's the best he's ever been offensively.

669
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 5: While he's forty five plus percent from the mid range,

670
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 5: he's got better touch inside the paint. He's not taking threes,

671
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 5: which have always brought his efficiency down. He's getting to

672
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 5: the rim for a higher percentage of his shots than

673
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 5: we've seen in years and years. He's a better playmaker.

674
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 5: His scoring volume is higher. Yannis, to me, is the

675
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 5: best he's ever been. I'm going to slightly lean Jokic

676
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 5: because I just think that literal goat offense, which is

677
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 5: what he's doing. He's having again the best offensive season

678
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 5: we've seen, and he's the best offensive.

679
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 4: Player we've seen.

680
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 5: To me, that is still even more valuable than Yannis's

681
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 5: incredible two way impact. And I think you see that

682
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 5: with how the Nuggets look every second the Yokic isn't

683
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 5: on the floor, and just how the Nuggets around Yokic

684
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 5: have looked without him. But I would be zero percent

685
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 5: mad if anybody had Giannis as their MVP. I think

686
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 5: he has been incredible. I think these are two dudes

687
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 5: at all time great peaks, both of whom got better

688
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 5: this year, which is incredible because they were already the

689
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 5: two best players in the world, and they both clearly

690
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 5: have improved.

691
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: Well, Carson, you know, the Nuggets intentionally played bad basketball

692
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: players so they can juice that on off Jokic.

693
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: Numbers right, right, that's right.

694
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: I forgot about the syop.

695
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 5: I forgot about the government operation headed by Michael Malone.

696
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: That's all it's about. It's about so we can get

697
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: Jokic every MVP award. It's intentionally done.

698
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: Have you have you guys heard the Jokic does too

699
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: much and it's disrupting everybody else's rhythm. That's another one.

700
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 4: That's a phenomenal. Take.

701
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 5: The crazy thing is he's number one in touches and

702
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 5: I think he's like thirty something in total time of possession.

703
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 4: Right, like people holding onto the ball never holds onto

704
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 4: the ball. They need him to create every advantage.

705
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 5: But like he's still selfless and he makes such quick

706
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: decisions with the basketball. Like just watch the Nuggets, man.

707
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 5: Anybody who says these things about I'm begging you, actually

708
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 5: watch what the dudes around him have been doing.

709
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 4: Offensively.

710
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: All he does is perpetually set up his offensive players

711
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: with advantages. Is because they can't make shots. It's Jokic's fault.

712
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: It makes no, damn.

713
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: It's funny when people can make that logical leap, and

714
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: not the one about Russ and his MVP season.

715
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: But but I digress.

716
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 4: I will say, well, they're doing the same thing.

717
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: They're doing the same thing exactly.

718
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: You didn't give Russ this credit log and for real, man,

719
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: I will give Russell Westbrook credit. I think Russ has

720
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: played really, really well off the bench for the Nuggets

721
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: this year, and he has been a pleasant surprise for

722
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: Denver and this could be even one of the better

723
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: Nuggets benches of this you know era, like like they've

724
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: had nobody and now you know, Peyton Watson's giving you

725
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: good looks and stuff like that.

726
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 4: I agree with a lot.

727
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 3: Of what you said, Carson.

728
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: I do prefer the offensive advantage, but I wouldn't push

729
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: back a whole lot if you wanted to have Giannis,

730
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: because I agree with you it's powered by the defense.

731
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: And while Jannis can't give you this, you know, defensive

732
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, just consistent persistence every single night, like last night,

733
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: when Giannis needs to and this turnaround has been powered

734
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: by the defense. Giannis can lock in and give you

735
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: that in an impact that Jokic can't. But both with

736
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: this thought exercise versus a guy like SGA, and I

737
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: think all of these teams plummet without those guys, and

738
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: only the Bucks are remotely competitive without Giannis. I don't

739
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: think the Nuggets are anywhere close to competition without Jokic,

740
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: and that's why they're head and shoulders. But the Nuggets

741
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: are so comically bad without Jokic, and that is where

742
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: I come down on it, like they are clueless.

743
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: They are lost even in minutes.

744
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: Like you said, Carson, we will get lineups without Jamal

745
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: or without MPG, and Jokic can produce with anybody out there.

746
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: You'll get bench minutes with Jamal Murray and the offense

747
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: grinds to a standstill where they don't score for three minutes,

748
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: like it's comical. And uh, I just think he is

749
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: so by so far, the best offensive player on the planet,

750
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: and that's why the Nuggets are still a real deal.

751
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: Title can tender to me.

752
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: So it's close between these two guys, and I understand

753
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: the defensive gap. It's not outweighed by what Jokic does offensively,

754
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: but not. I want to hear your take too. If

755
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: there's a large if there's a huge record, discrepancy. Does

756
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: that make a meaningful difference to you, guys, Like, if

757
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: it's by maybe five plus games at the end of

758
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: this year, does that make a big enough difference or

759
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: would that need to be larger?

760
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 2: I don't think it makes a lot of sense, Like

761
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: because this is the same thing that happened in twenty twenty,

762
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: where it's like where it's like Lebron is clearly just

763
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: a better basketball player than Yannis and Yah and Giannis

764
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: and the Bucks are clearly just beating up on inferior

765
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: competition and juicing up their their advanced metrics and stuff.

766
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: And it's like everyone who watches the two of them

767
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: knows Lebron is better. Lebron's clearly better. He clearly demonstrates

768
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: he's better when they get to the postseason. But Giannis

769
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: gets the MVP because he's in the Eastern Conference and

770
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 2: they finished what two games better in the standings or whatever.

771
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: It was, Like the gap between the East and West

772
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: is so giant at this point that like record between

773
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: the two conference is like, to me, you got to

774
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: kind of look at it in a little bit more detail. Again,

775
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: to your guys' point, I think this is important, Like

776
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: this is every time I see this in that I

777
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: see this in my YouTube comments all the time. But

778
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: it terms of this like it's like, fuck you, how

779
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: dare you say that that that you know Giannis is

780
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: not the better best player in the league or whatever

781
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: if you clearly don't know what you're watching, And it's like, look,

782
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 2: these are two players that are playing at the highest

783
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: level they've ever played in their entire lives. Both of

784
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: them are playing like very very different basketball players that

785
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: do very very different things, which means it's like purely

786
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: subjective and to your point, like if someone came up

787
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: to me and they're like, I think Giannis is better

788
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: than Jokich, I'd be like, interesting, like let's talk about it,

789
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: you know, like I don't, I don't disagree with you

790
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: in that regard, and like to me again, it just

791
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: comes down to the simple fact that, like Nicole, Jokich

792
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: is notching a one twenty three offensive rating this year

793
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: with not a single teammate who's consistently producing on the

794
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: offensive end of the four like consistently producing. It is

795
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: a shmortgish board of guys any given night making plays.

796
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: Because of his ability to set people up with advantages,

797
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: I think Milwaukee's roster is better than Denver's roster right

798
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 2: now because of the decline of Jamal Murray and because

799
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: of several key guys for Milwaukee playing better this year,

800
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 2: like the way, like that doesn't doesn't discount what Yiannis

801
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: is doing. But to me again, if I'm building a team,

802
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: Nicole Jokic's ability to just make me completely dominant on

803
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: the offensive end, regardless of surrounding talent, buys me so

804
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: much leeway elsewhere on the roster, Like, for instance, like

805
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: I don't know that you could march out too many

806
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: of the Christian Braun, Christian Brown, Peyton Watson, you know,

807
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon types next to Gianni's. It would be a

808
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: disaster if you tried to do that. Next to Giannis,

809
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,959
Speaker 2: You've literally tried to go through four bodies every single

810
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: time at the rim. Nikole Jokic buys you the lee

811
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: way to surround him with defensive spects that have very

812
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 2: easy offensive roles as cutters and slashers and dudes who

813
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: occasionally have to knock down a completely wide open shot

814
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: because of what he does on the offensive end of

815
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: the floor, Which goes back to like like kind of

816
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: my basketball kind of like worldview in the sense that

817
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 2: it is easier to construct a good team defense around

818
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: an elite offensive player than it is to construct a

819
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 2: good team a good team offense around an elite defensive player. Now,

820
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: to your point, Yannis is playing the best offensive basketball

821
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: of his career this year. Yiannis has been unbelievable in offense,

822
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: the ability to pretty consistently knock down mid range shots,

823
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 2: not just in like face up situations, but he's kind

824
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 2: of hitting some turnarounds this year too, which is crazy,

825
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: and his passing and playmaking, which has been at such

826
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: a high level this year. He is dramatically improved. I

827
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: still think there is a chasm between Jannis and Jokica's

828
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: offensive players. I still think there's a chasm between the

829
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 2: two of them like that, like Nikola Jokic makes it

830
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: look so damn easy while he just methodically walks down

831
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 2: your defense every single possession. Still looks a little clunky

832
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: and a little difficult with Yiannis at times. So like

833
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 2: to me, the right, the rightful point that Jannis's defense

834
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 2: is a huge advantage over Jokic. I still view Jokic's

835
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: offense as a huge advantage over Jannis, even though the

836
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: box score production is there for Yiannis. So to me,

837
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: like I still think Nikola Jokic is the best player

838
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: in the league, I still think I still think the

839
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: MVP gets a little bit a little bit more complicated

840
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: once you start to look at MVP. There is something

841
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: to be said about Giannis like straight up rescuing this

842
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: team with the way that he's kind of pulled them

843
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: out of the ugly start that they've had. But again,

844
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: I think you could make the exact same case for

845
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: Nikola Jokic and what he's done, Like with that team

846
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: was dead to start the year, with Jamal Murray struggling

847
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 2: the way he was struggling, all of a sudden, Aaron

848
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: Gordon gets hurt, it could have gone very far south

849
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: from there as well. So I think at that point,

850
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: I still look at it from the standpoint of like

851
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: Nicole Jokic has been playing better basketball and doing more

852
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 2: with less this year, which gives me the slight edge

853
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: for him in MVP. I do think that's Shay is

854
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: a pretty distant third at this point, And like one

855
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: of the things with Shaye, because I've seen a lot

856
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: of Shaye MVP bus he's playing with the most talent,

857
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 2: like the second most talented roster in the league, and

858
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: I think that that just makes life easier. Like there's

859
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: a lot of Celtics fans, why isn't Tatum getting MVP?

860
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 2: Bus Like Tatum's playing the best basketball of his career.

861
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 2: I'm a huge believer in what Tatum is capable of doing.

862
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: It's easier for him than it is for other people.

863
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 2: It's okay for us to acknowledge that with the way

864
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: that that team is set up, And so yeah, I

865
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: lean slightly towards Jokichen both MVP and in best player

866
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: in the world really quickly, just a quick round robin

867
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: for you guys, Let's go a Carson first, Like, do

868
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: you how would you describe the gap between Jokich and

869
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: Giannis in terms of just in evacuum best player in

870
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: the world right now?

871
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 5: I don't necessarily think that the gap is that big,

872
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 5: but the offensive leap that we've taken from Yannis. But

873
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: I think that you made a lot of great points, Jason,

874
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 5: And if I could just bring up a couple more

875
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 5: numbers when we're talking about the MVP conversation, like when

876
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 5: you talk about that completely unmatched offensive value, the shot

877
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: quality Yo Becaus was able to create no matter if

878
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 5: it is a Peyton Watson and Christian Brown lineup right,

879
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 5: which we've seen starting in russ Right, all of these

880
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 5: dudes who are non shooters and who have obvious offensive limitations,

881
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 5: and Jamal, even his number two, has been brutally inefficient,

882
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: can't create an advantage.

883
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 4: With Jokic on the floor and Aaron.

884
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 5: Gordon off who's missed a lot of the year, they're

885
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 5: not going to have a one twenty nine offensive rating. Okay,

886
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 5: that would be by far the best offensive all time,

887
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 5: and that's been an important piece of this offense. They

888
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 5: don't miss a single beat from being the best offense ever.

889
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 4: With Jokic on, Jamal Murray.

890
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 5: Off who's missed an extented strikes, they have a one

891
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 5: twenty two offensive rating, So that would still be like

892
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 5: the best offense in basketball today. And here's the incredible thing,

893
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 5: because you talk about Joannis saving the Bucks season, and

894
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 5: he absolutely has, but Jokic has just done that even

895
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 5: more so. If you just look at best raw plus

896
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 5: minus this season, here's the top ten number one Shaye

897
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 5: Thunder numbers two and three Celtics players four calv five

898
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 5: Celtic six ' seven calves nine calve ten thunder eight

899
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 5: is Niko Jokic, Like, that's just such an incredibly monumental

900
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: feat if you've watched the Nuggets this year and seen

901
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 5: what's been around him. So when you talk about like

902
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 5: the win total logan, is that going to be a

903
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 5: difference maker? It's always really really hard for me, and

904
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 5: I just don't think we should hold what happens when

905
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 5: a guy isn't on the floor against him, And when

906
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 5: the Nuggets with Jokic on the floor are as good

907
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 5: as any team in basketball statistically, that tells you that he's.

908
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 4: The most valuable player in basketball.

909
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have a ton to add.

910
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Jokic is the best scorer, playmaker,

911
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: and arguably rebounder in basketball too.

912
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 3: Like when you can do all that.

913
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: And just the it doesn't matter who's on the court,

914
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: Jokic can serve you a bucket from anywhere inside the arc,

915
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: from outside the arc?

916
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: Is he still over fifty percent from from deep two?

917
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 5: Like I think he's just under But I think on

918
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 5: actual threes he's over fifty percent because he takes heaves

919
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 5: that bring us percentage downs, like on half court threes,

920
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 5: I think he's over here.

921
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 3: There's just no holes in his offensive game.

922
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: And like you said, Jason, like you're putting defensive specialists

923
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: around him and he's still trotting out the best offense

924
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: in basketball.

925
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, man, Like.

926
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 2: He's getting the best out of Russ ever has happened

927
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: since left Washington. And like I like, and here's the thing,

928
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: Like Russ shares a ton of the blame for what

929
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: went and south for him when he went to the Lakers.

930
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: But there's no doubt that playing alongside the clear cut

931
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: best player in the league is a little different than

932
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 2: playing alongside thirty eight year old Lebron James.

933
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 4: Like there's no doubt that played a role.

934
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 5: And also, I think just the stylistic versatility that you

935
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 5: do have from Jokics right where their two man game

936
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 5: is actually really good. And I think that he can

937
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 5: free up Russ as a dry out of pick and

938
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 5: roll because teams are worried about Yokic's float or touch

939
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 5: or I mean Russ hits him with the pocket passes

940
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 5: because of how he empowers Russ as a cutter. Like

941
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 5: we've always talked about Okay, we can see Russ cutting

942
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 5: in this new offense, and like it was only ever

943
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 5: marginal differences and now Russ is like actually a really

944
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 5: willing cutter and in transition, right, I mean, he's the

945
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 5: best outlet pass we've ever seen. And he's totally by

946
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 5: the way up to Denver's pace of play this year.

947
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 5: Like you can't overstate that enough. We've always thought of

948
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 5: Denver as the methodical half court offense. They went from

949
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 5: twenty sixth in pace last year to fifth and pace

950
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 5: this year because they're playing Russ, because they're playing Brown more,

951
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 5: they're playing Watson more, like more these dudes who are

952
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 5: super limited in the half court good athletes in the

953
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 5: full court. And so Jokic has adjusted and the results

954
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 5: have been incredible.

955
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm pulling up his cuts real quick because he's averaging

956
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: over a cut per game this year. And it was

957
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: something that stood out to me. It was something that

958
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: stood out to me when I was watching that Sacramento game. Yeah,

959
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 2: his last season in Los Angeles, let's see bulling up

960
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: his cuts real quick. But yeah, like that's the thing,

961
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: Like I think it's always a more complicated conversation than

962
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: just Okay, So his last season in Los Angeles, he

963
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: averaged zero point six cuts per game, So he's cutting

964
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: about twice as frequently as he did when he was

965
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, And it was just something that we

966
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: were all constantly, just like literally constantly begging for him

967
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: to do. His entire twenty twenty two season, the first

968
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: the full season that he played in Los Angeles, he

969
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: scored on a cut just thirty nine times all season. Wow,

970
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: And it just yeah, it's just it's just one of

971
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 2: those things where like, like again his Nicole Jokic, he

972
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: crafts such tiny offensive roles and his ability to attract

973
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: attention is so consistent and so dramatic that like it's

974
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: possible to really like game plan the TikTok toe off

975
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 2: of it to the point where like Denver just you know,

976
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: I remember Mike Malone and Jamal Murray and used to

977
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: talk a lot about this in the Lakers sweep, the

978
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: one in the Western Conference Finals, where it's like, we've

979
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: just seen all this before. Oh you put Ruy on Dijokicz,

980
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: We've seen this before. And it's like and it's the

981
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: truth in the sense that like they just have like

982
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: they kind of have like a systemic way of attacking

983
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: any specific type of coverage with any specific type of player.

984
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 2: Like think about how Christian Brown has immediately just kind

985
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: of been better than Kntavious called the Pope, even though

986
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 2: he's like a very very different type of player, because

987
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: of their ability to craft like a very simple like cutting, slashing,

988
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: spot up type of role with him. Before we move on,

989
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: I want to just put a very basic qualifier on this.

990
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 2: Giannis is amazing. This is not a Yannis problem. Nikolea

991
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 2: Jokic is just playing at potentially the highest level we

992
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: have problem. I believe the highest level we have ever

993
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: seen on the offensive end of the four.

994
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 4: Like it is it is it is.

995
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: It's like when we're talking about Stephan kd and the

996
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: Lebron James era. It is not Stephan kty Saw. There

997
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 2: are all these people where it's like, well Steph does

998
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: this and Kad does that, and like, well look they're

999
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 2: winning titles together, and it's like it's it's not anything

1000
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: that they're doing wrong or something that they're incapable of.

1001
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: It's just Lebron James is the greatest basketball player to

1002
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: ever pick up a ball, and he's out there doing

1003
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 2: his thing. Like, it's just it just it's just it's

1004
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: just different when you're when you're getting into that level

1005
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: of player. I do have one more Milwaukee one before

1006
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: we get at it, before we move on to our

1007
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: next top. We're going to move a little more rapid

1008
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: fire here down the stretch. Who's more likely to win

1009
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 2: the title this year? Milwaukee or Denver? Let's go with

1010
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: you first, Logan.

1011
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: I'm conflicted here because Jamal Murray really scares me when

1012
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: we're thinking about the level that he's been at and

1013
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: in terms of a playoff setting. And the thing with

1014
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: Jamal that's concerning to me is it's not just the

1015
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: fact that he's missing tough shots, right, Jamal Murray is

1016
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: a guy who inherently lives off tough shots because he's

1017
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: not one hell of an athlete, right. He struggles to

1018
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: really get downhill and to create advantages by himself even

1019
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: out of the pick and roll. Right, Like, he's a

1020
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: guy that's easy to recover on when he's driving, So

1021
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: he's gonna live off tough floaters and tough jumpers and

1022
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: stuff like that. The thing that's been most frustrating to

1023
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: me about watching Jamal Murray as his decision making, like

1024
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: there will be guys wide open in the half court

1025
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: on possessions, or I'm like, Jamal, swing the ball, like

1026
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: there's a wide open look and you're ballhogging right now,

1027
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: Like the Nuggets will create an initial advantage there's an

1028
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: open shooter on the wing, and Jamal will choose to

1029
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: re dribble and dribble the ball right outside the top

1030
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: of the key and reset or even negated everything that

1031
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: you've ran with that action. And so it is really

1032
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: concerning to me the level that Jamal's at and all

1033
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 1: the little things that have to go right for den

1034
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: for in the playoffs, because I look back at their

1035
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: run and I do like the Nuggets formula a lot.

1036
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: But it's like what we were just saying about Jokic,

1037
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: with all these guys and defined roles, it works because

1038
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: Jokic is so great and enhances all of these guys,

1039
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,439
Speaker 1: but they're not as multifaceted as some of the other

1040
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: supporting pieces, and they're just not as good overall players. Right, Like,

1041
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: I just trust Damian Lillard so much more as my

1042
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: number two in a playoff setting, right Like, I know

1043
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: that Dame can create for himself and even when Jannis

1044
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: hasn't been out there. Dame has been capable of getting

1045
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: his own and carrying this offense when Yiannis is out.

1046
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: And then when you look at a guy like Chris Middleton,

1047
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: it's like, this is no shade at Michael Porter Junior, right,

1048
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: MPJ is in a very defined role. He's gonna play defense,

1049
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: he's gonna rebound, and he's gonna shoot open shots.

1050
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: Milwaukee just has more offensive.

1051
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: Creation, and they've also got guys and really defined roles.

1052
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: I would probably say, even though Denver is my second

1053
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: out West, I'd probably say mill Wakee just because of the.

1054
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: Strength of competition in the Eastern Conference.

1055
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: Right, Like, there's a defined four, but there's only four

1056
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: in the Eastern Conference. To me, it's Boston, it's Cleveland,

1057
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: it's Milwaukee, and then who am I spacing on Who's four?

1058
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,479
Speaker 1: It's New York in New York's right, So I don't

1059
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: really look at any other team out East and I'm like, oh, yeah,

1060
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, they could maybe give this team a run

1061
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: for their money. I think those four teams are stamped

1062
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: to get to the semifinals and then they'll duke it

1063
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: out from there. The West is so freaking deep that

1064
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be hard.

1065
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: You know.

1066
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a bit of a cop

1067
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: out answer because it's not apples to apples, but it's

1068
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: not Denver could run into a really tough matchup in

1069
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: round one. Denver's gonna have to scratch and claw through

1070
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: round one, through round two through round three to just

1071
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: get there, when Milwaukee might be able to coast round

1072
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: one and maybe round two. Like there's such a discrepancy,

1073
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: like you mentioned earlier, Jason, between talent and in the

1074
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: East and West, it would just be easier, I think

1075
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: for Milwaukee, and they have a top two that I

1076
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 1: trust more than Denver, right, like Jokic more than Yo, honest,

1077
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: but I certainly like Jannis and Dame more than I

1078
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: like Jokic and Jamal at the level that he's been at.

1079
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: So I like Denver a lot, But I think it's

1080
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: probably easy for me to envision some things breaking Milwaukee's

1081
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: way and in them figuring out the West is just

1082
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: they're super top heavy right now, and they're pretty deep too.

1083
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 4: That's interesting. I think it's very close between these two teams.

1084
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 5: I think that right now Milwaukee is the more complete

1085
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 5: team with the strides that they've taken defensively with the

1086
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 5: value they have found from some of these role players.

1087
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 5: When we talk about AJ Green and Andre Jackson, I

1088
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 5: still very slightly lean Denver. And the reason I say

1089
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 5: that is right now, the gap in Milwaukee's favorite between

1090
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 5: these two teams is defensive, and that's probably not as

1091
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 5: big as the offensive gap when you get to a

1092
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 5: playoff environment, and I think that Denver can play better

1093
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 5: defensively than they have because we've seen them do it before.

1094
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 5: We've seen them turn out a really good playoff defense

1095
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 5: in a top ten regular season defense last year.

1096
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 4: And when it comes down to.

1097
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 5: Beating these teams that are just subjectively more talented, like

1098
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 5: an OKC, even a Dallas right is clearly more talented

1099
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 5: right now than Denver, the greatest advantage you can have

1100
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 5: is an unsolvable problem offensively, and to me, that's what

1101
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 5: Jokic provides.

1102
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 4: So I struggle to.

1103
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 5: See how Milwaukee could overcome a team like a Boston

1104
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 5: right who's just so monumentally talented. And while I also

1105
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 5: think Denver would be major underdogs in that matchup, they

1106
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 5: have the unsolvable problem. I don't think that Boston can

1107
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 5: do anything with Jokic defensively, right, you double he destroys you.

1108
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 5: You try to deal with him in single coverage, he

1109
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 5: destroys you as long as Jamal Murray. And this is

1110
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 5: a legitimate If plays at a close to star level offensively,

1111
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 5: well then this is just a machine that is exceedingly

1112
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 5: difficult to So for that reason, I lean Denver. I

1113
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 5: think having that punch of hey, we have not just

1114
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 5: the best player in the world, we have the greatest

1115
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 5: offensive player of all time, gives you a better chance

1116
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 5: because you're so specifically great in that one area, on

1117
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 5: that one side of the ball. And I think Denver

1118
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 5: can improve enough defensively, so I.

1119
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 3: Not to cut you off real quick.

1120
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: If Porzingis wasn't healthy, does that make enough of a

1121
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: difference to you between Milwaukee and Boston?

1122
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 3: Would you give Milwaukee a chance in that series?

1123
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 4: Real long shot? Yeah?

1124
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: I think it's a long shot, no matter what, for

1125
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 2: pretty much everybody over Boston.

1126
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 4: Carson.

1127
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: What you're talking about involving like the unsolvable problem is

1128
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: the main thing for me that makes it close.

1129
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 4: But I agree.

1130
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: I agree with what you said at the beginning, which

1131
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: is like, I think Milwaukee's a better team and I

1132
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 2: think they have an easier path, Like I would like,

1133
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: let's get a little bit deeper here, like who Like

1134
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: I would argue that a team like I would argue

1135
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: that teams like Cleveland in New York, even though they're

1136
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: tough playoff matchups, I think that they fall more in

1137
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: line with like the rest of the Western Conference than

1138
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 2: they do with some of these Yeah. Yeah, the Cleveland piece.

1139
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: For me, I think they're being optimized right now. I'm

1140
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 2: really really excited to watch them at the end of

1141
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: this month. I've seen this road trip they're about to

1142
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 2: go on. They play like Golden State, Lakers, Denver, Dallas

1143
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 2: all on the road, like back to back to back

1144
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 2: to back, and I think maybe I'll change my opinion

1145
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: on Cleveland after that stretch. But like, to me, like

1146
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 2: still I steal am concerned about some offensive issues. Their

1147
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: offense has slowed down a little bit up until they

1148
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 2: just beat the living shit out of Brooklyn the other night.

1149
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 2: But like, their offense is slowed down a little bit

1150
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: over the last couple of weeks, and they still have

1151
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 2: these entry points that I'm concerned about in their defense.

1152
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: But like the bottom line is, if you look at

1153
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: the Western Conference, Let's say my comporter Junior goes down

1154
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: for two weeks or Jamal Murray goes down for another

1155
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: two weeks, they could be in the plan. Not even

1156
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: because not even because of anything Jokic is doing or

1157
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: anything the rest of the team is doing. It's just

1158
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: the West is so damn good that you drop a

1159
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 2: couple of weeks of bad basketball, you could slip down

1160
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 2: to seven, eight nine in the standings. There's a version

1161
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: of this where Denver has to win a play in

1162
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: then go on the road to beat someone like Denver Dallas,

1163
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, then have to beat like a Phoenix Minnesota

1164
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: type of team in the Houston and then have to

1165
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: go beat another top seed in the Western Conference finals,

1166
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 2: and then have to meet whoever comes out of the East. Whereas,

1167
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: like you feel pretty good about Milwaukee effectively getting a

1168
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: first round by through them eventually working their way up

1169
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 2: to the top four in the standings and just getting

1170
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 2: one of those lesser Eastern Conference teams and then like

1171
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 2: Milwaukee with home court over New York or with home

1172
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: court over any of those teams that just feel like

1173
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: they have like a little bit more of a realistic

1174
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 2: path to get to the Conference Finals against Boston, where

1175
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 2: if they win that series, you like their chances against

1176
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 2: anybody coming out of the West, right, Whereas with Denver

1177
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 2: it just seems like the types of hurdles they would

1178
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 2: have to pass to get to a Western Conference finals,

1179
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: to get to the finals, it just feels more complicated. Again,

1180
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 2: to your point, Carson, the offensive unsolvability of Jokic is

1181
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: the big variable there. January seventh, We finally get to

1182
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 2: watch Denver play Boston this year, and it's like, you

1183
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: just feel like they have a chance to win that

1184
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 2: game because of the Jokic problem, and it's just a

1185
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: unique presentation for any of these teams to deal with. Again,

1186
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: Like if you were to ask, and this to me

1187
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: is like if I really had to get into one

1188
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: single case for why I do find Jokic to be

1189
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: better than the honest it's if you were to ask,

1190
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: what single trait from either of those players is the best.

1191
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 2: Jokic's offense is better than anything that Jannis does. And

1192
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 2: like that seeing it to your point that one single

1193
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: piece of unsolvability has so many trickle down effects for

1194
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,919
Speaker 2: all the other elements of the basketball game. So yeah,

1195
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: I lean I would say that I lean Milwaukee slightly

1196
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: more likely to win the title just because of their

1197
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 2: path coming up through the East, even separate from anything

1198
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: we talked about with Jokic and Yanna. Sorry, so we

1199
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: only have five more minutes, so I want to go

1200
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: really rapid fire through these next two. So each of

1201
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: you guys just give me about like sixty seconds.

1202
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 4: Let's go.

1203
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 2: Which team is more likely to blow up and trade

1204
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: a superstar, the Lakers or the Heat. We'll start with you, Carson.

1205
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 5: I think it's the Heat because I think that Jimmy

1206
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 5: is going to be probably the easiest to move of

1207
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 5: any of these dudes who we could talk about now.

1208
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 5: I still think that Jimmy is kind of a difficult

1209
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 5: fit and is a difficult proposition to sell some teams

1210
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 5: on when you consider aging questionable health can be something

1211
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 5: of a ball stop or like I wouldn't it.

1212
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 2: Could be a dick sometimes.

1213
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true as well.

1214
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 5: I probably would be backing up to bring Struck, setting

1215
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 5: a bunch of assets to go and get Jimmy. I

1216
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 5: just still think it's more likely, and I don't know,

1217
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 5: like the Lakers can't trade Lebron in my opinion, Like,

1218
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 5: I just think he would say no, no, thank you.

1219
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 5: So I think it's the Heat. And I also think

1220
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 5: the Heat are definitely not where they want to be.

1221
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 5: They're far away and they should pick a clear timeline.

1222
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 5: And I think that that involves getting younger and build

1223
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 5: thing from that.

1224
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that logic.

1225
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: I also just don't think the Lakers could ever trade Lebron. Also,

1226
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: if Lebron got traded, apparently you would have to attach

1227
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: Bronni with him, which is kind of crazy to think.

1228
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 4: And that's an asset you just can't lose, which.

1229
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: I think it makes it all the more reason to

1230
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: back it up yet thirty. But I think the Heat

1231
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: should trade Jimmy, and I think some teams should be

1232
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: interested in Jimmy. I agree it's kind of a hard

1233
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: sale with his availability and consistent effort night to night,

1234
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: along with his contract scenario. Like, I don't think Jimmy

1235
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: is a super easy guy to trade for, especially just

1236
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: making the money work, like you have to match his

1237
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: fifty mil basically this year. But I would be surprised

1238
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: if by the trade deadline, if Jimmy is still a

1239
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: member of the Miami Heat. I think he'll probably get

1240
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: moved by then.

1241
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, extends beyond the tradeability of Jimmy Butler.

1242
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 2: I just I think Miami is more self aware and

1243
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 2: more well run, so like I think they are the

1244
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 2: ones who are more willing to look in the mirror

1245
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: and be like, hey, it's time, whereas like Genie Buss

1246
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: and Rob Polinka are happy to ring out the sponge

1247
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 2: for every drop of fame and recognition from having Lebron

1248
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: in a d and the roster, even as they just

1249
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: piss away the end of the greatest basketball player ever's career.

1250
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 2: So that like I would, I personally would love to

1251
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 2: see Lebron in a place like Golden State. I think

1252
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: it'd be a ton of fun. I think that this

1253
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 2: Lakers team is broken on a deep level. I think

1254
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 2: they're about to get even worse here in this next

1255
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: stretch where they go on the road to Sacramento and

1256
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: Golden State. I think I think they might lose all

1257
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: three of those games. Like, I think it could get

1258
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 2: it uglier and uglier and uglier, and I wish that

1259
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 2: they would just just accept reality at this point. But

1260
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: I just again think that Miami is more self aware,

1261
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 2: more willing to to to make that kind of change.

1262
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 2: All right, quick, last one? Which team is more likely

1263
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: to turn their season around? The Indiana Pacers or the

1264
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: Sacramento Kings.

1265
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: Monological we used earlier about Denver and Milwaukee. I just

1266
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: the West is so comically deep right now. And I

1267
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: said this on our show a while back, the Kings

1268
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: of the Kings. Man, Like, I don't know what this is.

1269
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: The Kings are definitely not in the cellar the where

1270
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: they were a few years ago. They have risen up

1271
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: to competitive level. Congrats, it's just not good enough, right, Like,

1272
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: I even I put them down, like maybe even down

1273
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: past Houston.

1274
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 3: And that's not a.

1275
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: Dig at Houston, but like Houston's really limited offensively, I only.

1276
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 3: And I think Sacramentos.

1277
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 5: I think people are going to be pissed that you

1278
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 5: said that, like it was a revelation Rockets.

1279
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 3: I think it's a revelation. I'm just saying that, like

1280
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 3: I don't have you.

1281
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: Houston is a real contender, and I think the Kings

1282
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: are below them. And it's the inverse obviously, right, because

1283
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: the Kings can't play defense. But with Indiana, right, Indiana's

1284
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: got two really good rotation guys out right now in

1285
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: aaron Ne Smith and Ben Shephard. You get those guys back.

1286
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: They're really important three in D guys, and again these.

1287
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 4: Just isn't as deep.

1288
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 3: Indiana went to the Eastern Conference finals last year.

1289
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, some things had to break their way,

1290
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: but they've got a rock solid identity. Halliburton's played way

1291
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: better over the last ten games. I'm hoping he's turning

1292
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: a really positive corner there. And I just believe in

1293
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: their identity and their formula. And the East sucks so

1294
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: like right like Indiana at their bottom maybe I mean,

1295
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: what like the sixth seed or something like, they're a

1296
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: shoe in to make the playoffs. In my opinion, I

1297
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: think they figure it out. And I just can't see

1298
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: them missing the playoffs in the East that is so

1299
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: limited and so bad. And I think it's probably more

1300
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: likely that the Kings are at the bottom of the

1301
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: play in or they just do outright miss the playoffs.

1302
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, the thirty seconds where the conference difference is going

1303
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 5: to be the tiebreaker for me. I think Sacramento was better.

1304
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 5: The Kings are eleventh th net rating right now, the

1305
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 5: Pacers are twenty second, and the Pacers to have unsolvable

1306
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 5: problems defensively, I think they're broken there and their offense

1307
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 5: has been very average this year, but I think their

1308
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 5: offense has been average because of some of Halley's early

1309
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 5: season struggles. In their wins, he's actually been awesome. He

1310
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 5: gives them twenty four and ten on sixty three percent

1311
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 5: through shooting, and.

1312
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 4: Their offense looks awesome, so he is trending up.

1313
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 5: I think if you get good Halle enough, they just

1314
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 5: have more of a chance to actually do something because

1315
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 5: the West is so much deeper, and with the Buckstenver conversation,

1316
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 5: it wasn't as much of a difference maker to me

1317
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 5: because I'm like, you have to beat the best teams

1318
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 5: no matter what these teams were talking about a different

1319
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 5: standard of getting too the playoffs be competitive in series.

1320
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 4: That's a lot easier in the East.

1321
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also I just I think Sacramento's issues they

1322
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 2: don't have any players, or that they don't have many

1323
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 2: players who play both ends of the floor, so they

1324
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 2: can construct lineups that can defend and they construct lineups

1325
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: that can score, but they can't really do both. I

1326
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: think Indiana, just based on the Siakam Turner front court,

1327
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 2: it just has more potential to eventually establish more of

1328
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 2: a baseline defensive level of competence. But anyway, guys, I

1329
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: was hoping for this nice little morning show. I was

1330
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: hoping for something that would be really informal and fun

1331
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: as we kill some time here in this slow week.

1332
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 4: That is perfect.

1333
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 2: Thank you guys for coming on really quickly. Can Carson,

1334
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 2: can you just shout out what you guys are working

1335
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: on over at nerd sash.

1336
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've got tons of NBA stuff, We've got all

1337
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 5: our full shows, we've got some film breakdowns. Check us

1338
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 5: out on YouTube, listen to the full show across audio platforms,

1339
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 5: and if you are an NFL fan too, then you

1340
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 5: can check that out.

1341
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 4: We cover football too.

1342
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: Make sure you guys get over and follow and subscribe

1343
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 2: to the nerd ssh YouTube channel. As always be sincerely

1344
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys for supporting us, for supporting the show.

1345
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 2: I will see you guys on Friday for the mailbag.

1346
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 5: The volume