1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Life changes for George Foreman after his personal debacle at 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: the sixty eight Olympics. When Foreman wins gold, he stands 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: there in the ring and he waves this tiny American flag. 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: He even kisses it. Meanwhile, other young black Olympians famously 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: hold up defiant black fists. The contrast all but seals 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: Foreman's fate. Back home, Foreman experiences first hand the sting 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: of public rejection, the deep hurt, all the embarrassment, the 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: cold water shock that comes from the total lack of 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: appreciation for what all he has achieved and how far 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: he has come. This moment of public humiliation, it strengthens 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: the bond he feels with his hero, Sunny Listing. You see, 12 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty two, when Sunny Liston won the 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: heavyweight Championship of the World, he boarded a flight home 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: to Philadelphia. He practiced his victory speech as he soared 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: among the clouds at fifty thousand feet. Listen expected to 16 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: be greeted by adoring fans and hailed as the conquering hero. 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: His seat make was Jack McKinney, a sportswriter from the 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Daily News. Listen told McKenny. 19 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: One thing's very important. I want to reach my people. 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: I want to reach them and tell them you don't 21 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: have to worry about me disgracing you. You won't have 22 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: to worry about me stopping your progress. I want to 23 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: go to colored churches and colored neighborhoods. I know it 24 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: was in the papers that the better class of colored 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 2: people were hoping I'd lose, even praying I'd lose, because 26 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: they was afraid I wouldn't know how to act. I 27 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: remember one thing so clear about listening to Joe Lewis 28 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: fight on the radio when I was a kid, A 29 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: great fighter and a credit to his race. Remember that 30 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: used to make me feel real proud inside. 31 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: Now, just like his hero, Joe Lewis, Listen was the 32 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: heavyweight champion of the world. Perhaps now they'd accept him 33 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: after all that he had accomplished. Listen told the sportswriter, 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: I want to go. 35 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: To a lot of places like often homes and reform schools. 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: I'll be able to say, he I know it's tough 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: for you, and it might even get tougher, but don't 38 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 2: give up on the world. Good things can happen if 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: you let them. 40 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: When the plane arrives in Philadelphia. Sunny Liston takes a breath, 41 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: preparing himself for the crowd he imagines as waiting for 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: him to walk down the airplane steps. He can almost 43 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: hear their boisterous shouts and cheers. Maybe someone has organized 44 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: a full marching band. The plane door opens, and Sunny 45 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: Liston sees that not only is there no band, no 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: crowd of cheering fans, there is no one there to 47 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: celebrate Sonny Liston. McKinney writes, quote, you could feel the deflation, 48 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: the look of hurt in his eyes. A silent shudder 49 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: went through him. That moment marks the birth of a villain. 50 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: For the heavyweight champion to be rejected, to be publicly 51 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: shunned like that, it wounds him, It deadens something in 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: his heart. Sonny Liston decides he will become the bad 53 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: man everyone believes him to be. He will use that 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: hurt and embarrassment to hone his anger into a punishing 55 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: force in the ring. Meanwhile, there's the young George Foreman 56 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 1: coming up in the ranks, and he sees this pitiless 57 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: fury of Liston. He sees this undeniable strength, and he 58 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: thinks to himself, that's the way to be that's a champ. 59 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Sonny Liston shapes the young attitudes of both Ali and Foreman, 60 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: but they learned very different lessons from his brutal anger 61 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: in the ring. For one, George Foreman is always searching 62 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: for a father figure. In Sonny Liston, he finds more 63 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: of a dark uncle. 64 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: While I was still in the job Corps, I was 65 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: invited down to spa with Liston several times. I had 66 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: a strong feeling for Sonny Listing. He had come from 67 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 3: so far back and made it. 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: When Foreman first decides to turn pro, he signs with 69 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: veteran boxing trainer Dick Sadler. Liston's trainer and manager. 70 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 3: Dick Sadler didn't offer money, but I wasn't excited about money. 71 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 3: He did tell me I can make you a champion 72 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 3: like Listen. That excited me. 73 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: And then Foreman gets to actually train with his hero. 74 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: I trained full time with Sonny. Everything he did I did. 75 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: We often ate together and afterwards took a walk. To 76 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 3: say that Sonny Liston was a man a few words 77 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: is to say that the son is war now. Normally 78 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: he just glared. So when he suddenly began talking about 79 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 3: himself on one of our walks, I hung on to 80 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 3: his every syllable. 81 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: Muhammad ad Lee. Biographer Jonathan Eig observed that Listen's a 82 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: lot like Foreman in that way. 83 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 4: He's not an entertainer. He's a slugger. He's seen as unbeatable, 84 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 4: and Louis Ehrenberg, author of The Rumble in the Jungle, 85 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 4: elaborates on how Liston's hardened exterior influenced Foreman to imitate 86 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 4: his villainous hero. 87 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 5: He had the advantage of being literate, whereas Sonny was illiterate. 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 5: But he feels, you know, attacked, despite his achievements. He 89 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 5: is not appreciated for what he has done and achieved, 90 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 5: you know, despite the negatives that he grew that both 91 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 5: of them grew up with. 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: Sonny Liston's past and his pain bonds him with George Foreman, 93 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: and in response, Foreman adopts Liston's surly persona. It becomes 94 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: his battle armor, and Foreman secretly needs it because remember, George. 95 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 5: Is a sensitive guy underneath all of this, you know, 96 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 5: I mean, everybody wants to be recognized for what they 97 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 5: are and what they've achieved. Sonny Listen, too mean and 98 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 5: tough as he was, he wanted to be appreciated as well. 99 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 5: I mean he had a tougher hide that he could, 100 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 5: you know, put up against these attacks. But Foreman, Yeah, 101 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 5: I think being around Liston really deepened his sense of 102 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 5: alienation from his community and from the white society as well. 103 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: Now, with Dick Sadler training and managing him and Sonny 104 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: Liston as his sparring partner and role model, the undeniably 105 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: great George Foreman races up the ranks of professional fighters. 106 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: Foreman wins his first twelve fights, eleven by knockout. The 107 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: next year, in nineteen seventy one, he wins seven more fights, 108 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: all seven are knockouts. He starts to average one heavyweight 109 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: prize fight a month. That same year that Foreman is 110 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: on his rise, another fight breaks out, another notable uprising, 111 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: Only this one takes place within the walls of Attica 112 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: Prison in upstate New York. Welcome to Rumble, the story 113 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: of Ali Foreman and the soul music of nineteen seventy four. 114 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Zarn Burnett, the third from iHeart Podcast 115 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 1: and School of Humans. This is Rumble. Previously on Rumble. 116 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 6: Looking up here in the out the roars from the 117 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 6: crowd are in. 118 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 7: My ear Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe Frasier. They put each 119 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 7: other in the hospital. 120 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 6: Joe Fraser represents all that is wrong with white America. 121 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 8: He found all of the as hard as he could 122 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 8: and beat him, and yet nobody really accepts him. 123 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 7: She wasn't singing against anybody, singing for all the Africans 124 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 7: who have been spread around the world. 125 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 9: Church Foreman was a great fighter, and he was big. 126 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 9: He was gonna talk with his gloves, not with his mouth. 127 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 10: What everybody remembers about forming waving the American flag and 128 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 10: the same Olympia that Tommy Smith and John Carlos held 129 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 10: up a black glove fist. 130 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: September ninth, nineteen seventy one, a riot breaks out inside 131 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: the Attica Correctional Facility in Attica, New York. Twenty two 132 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: hundred inmates turned to violence to protest their treatment, their 133 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: living conditions, and to exercise their political rights. The result, 134 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: forty two correctional officers are held hostage, four are killed, 135 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: and the prison rebellion last four whole days. To restore 136 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: control to the prison, Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York 137 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: orders the state police and National Guard to retake the 138 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: facility at the point of a machine gun, shrouded by 139 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: clouds of tear gas. For six long minutes, gunfire is exchanged. 140 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: Some of the rounds used include dumb dumb bullets which 141 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: expand on impact, tearing through flesh. Forty five hundred rounds later, 142 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: the bloody confrontation leaves forty three people dead. Twenty nine 143 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: prisoners are shot dead by law enforcement, and importantly, another 144 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: ten prison guards are killed by other law enforcements, victims 145 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: of what's dubbed friendly fire. The attic of prison uprising 146 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: and resulting bloodshed lead to a nationwide focus on the 147 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: US prison system and law enforcement. You see this riot, 148 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: this fight was not just occurring between incarcerated men and 149 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: their wardens. The tension in marginalized communities in the sixties 150 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: throughout the country were now taught as a stretched rubber band. 151 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: People were pulled and yanked to their limits, and finally, 152 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: that day in the Attica Correctional facility, the rubber band snapped. 153 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 7: When the Attica thing hit, it caught everybody's attention because 154 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 7: this is in the middle of all the George Jackson, 155 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 7: Angela Davis Black Panthers, All of this urban political intensity 156 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 7: was all occurring at the same time. 157 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: That's the thing about the late sixties, All of it 158 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: was happening all at once. The tensions in America's cities 159 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: had ramped up as law enforcement used more and more 160 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: violence to maintain the status quo. In response, a new 161 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: militancy in Black America takes hold in nineteen sixty seven, 162 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: when the Black Panther for Self Defense explodes into the 163 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: popular consciousness of America. The Panthers were iconic looking black 164 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: men in black leather coats and jackets, wearing dark sunglasses 165 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: and rocking global afros, the very image of black defiance, 166 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: and they carried guns. The Panthers would drive around at 167 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: night with shotguns and rifles and follow the police as 168 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: they patrolled their neighborhoods. Obviously, the police couldn't stand that. 169 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: In California, a lawmaker drew up legislation to put a 170 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: stop to the panther police patrols. In response, the Panthers, 171 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: armed with their shotguns and rifles, marched into the state 172 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: capitol in protest of the new law forbidding the open 173 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: carrying of weapons in the state, the so called Panther Bill. 174 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: After the Black Panthers attempt to take over the state 175 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: capital of California, the new bill passed. The bill portrayed 176 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: the Black Panther Party as the image of resistance, and 177 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: thus on the streets they were seen as some badass 178 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: brothers who took on the man radicals who were undeniably 179 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: down for the people. The Panthers were best known in 180 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: the community not for their shotguns, but for feeding school 181 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: children with their free breakfast program. To limit the spread 182 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: of their influence, the director of the FBI J. Eggar Hoover, 183 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: designated the Black Panthers as the number one threat in 184 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: America in nineteen sixty eight. Hoover said, the Black Panther 185 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: Party for self Defense quote without question, represents the greatest 186 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: threat to the internal security of the country. By the 187 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: start of the nineteen seventies, there had been numerous shootouts, raids, assassinations, 188 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: and incarceration of Black Panther leaders. Fellow Black Panther Angela Davis, 189 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 1: first became famous when she stood trial in California in 190 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one. You see earlier, a young Black Panther 191 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: was in court when his brother, also a Panther, stormed 192 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: the court room and took the judge, Deputy da and 193 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: three jurors hostage. He hoped this desperate move would free 194 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: his brother and a few other inmates, but instead, the 195 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: judge was killed during the violent takeover. And it turns 196 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: out UCLA professor Angela Davis had purchased the guns used 197 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: in the courtroom takeover. She'd also been in communication with 198 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: the inmates. That was enough to name Angela Davis as 199 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: criminally responsible for the murdered judge, and a restawrant was issued. 200 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: Angela Davis went into hiding. Jagar Hoover added Angela Davis 201 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: to the FBI's ten most Wanted list. That began a 202 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: month's long manhunt for her. Finally, on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy, 203 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: Angela Davis was caught at a Howard Johnson motor lodge 204 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: in New York City. President Nixon gave Jaegar Hoover and 205 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: his g men all the credit for the quote capture 206 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: of the dangerous terrorist Angela Davis. Year in nineteen seventy one, 207 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: Angela Davis was in a Marine County courtroom to stand trial. 208 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: That's how just like Muhammad Ali, Angela Davis. 209 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 7: As a result, she became identified as this fearless warrior. 210 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: This is when free Angela Davis shirts became a common sight. 211 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 7: So everybody in America had free Angela Davis buttons, free 212 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 7: Angela Davis banners, but nobody was really concerned with freeing 213 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 7: Angela Davis. They all wanted to be part of the movement, 214 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 7: but they weren't really focused on her. And there was 215 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 7: a lot of that. 216 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: But to young radicals like my pops, Angela Davis was 217 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: a political prisoner, and somewhat ironically, for them, this made 218 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: her stand apart from the rest of the inmates. And 219 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: then Attica changed all that. 220 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 7: So then to have it happen inside of a prison 221 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 7: was beyond our ability to understand, because, like people look 222 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 7: at prisoners now differently than they did then in nineteen 223 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 7: if you were in prison, we expected you to have 224 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 7: earned your way there. There weren't a whole lot of 225 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 7: political prisoners that we saw in nineteen seventy. 226 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: You see, at the time, ideas like systemic racism were 227 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: not yet common language. 228 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 7: So in nineteen seventy one point Attaka hit, we were 229 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 7: just amazed that it was such an organized expression of 230 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 7: rebellion among people who we had not seen as a group. 231 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 7: We all learned from the things that came out, how 232 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 7: the state was in an organized way, really abusing selected 233 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 7: groups of prisoners. 234 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: Attka restored some dignity and humanity to how citizens imagined 235 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: the folks locked up. It also motivated Muhammad Ali to 236 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: put his pen to pad and write a poem about 237 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: the uprising. 238 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 6: He said, better far from all I see to die 239 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 6: fighting to be free? What more fitting then could be? 240 00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 3: Better? 241 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 6: Surely than in some where in broken health I'm led 242 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 6: lingering until I'm dead, Better than with prayers and please, 243 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 6: or in the clutch of some disease, wasting slowly by degrees, 244 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 6: Better than on heart attack or some dose of drug. 245 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 6: I lech let me die by being black. 246 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: It's the first line of Ali's poem to me that's 247 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: perhaps the most telling, and provides the greatest insight into 248 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: the boxer and into the man. Better far from all 249 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: I see to die fighting to be free? One could 250 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: say those words were like Ali's mantra as the people's champ. 251 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: He lived by that statement, just like Angela Davis did, 252 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: just like many of their fellow freedom fighters did. In 253 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: the early seventies. Muhammad Ali and Angela Davis were powerful 254 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: symbols of this shared fight, their victories, their battles to 255 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: be free and to remain free, their righteous struggle against 256 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: immoral men like Nixon and Hoover. It became the people's fight. 257 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: November twenty third, nineteen seventy two, Thanksgiving Day, sing Sing Prison, 258 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: the ominous maximum security prison in Westchester, New York. The rusty, 259 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: old iron gate slides slowly open. A giant tour bus 260 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: pulls through the gate into the prison and outsteps the 261 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: one and only BB King. The Blues Man is there 262 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: that day to perform for the men locked up inside. 263 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: Also arriving that day. 264 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 9: Is David Hoffmann. Eighty three year old documentary filmmaker. 265 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: David Hoffman was there in sing Sing in seventy two 266 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: as part of a prison project he'd organized with inmates 267 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: to film and document what was going down unseen behind 268 00:17:59,200 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: the prison wall. 269 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 9: We were teaching a course on filmmaking and on storytelling, 270 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 9: and about fifty inmates came. We did that as a 271 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 9: result of Atakon. Seeing the horror of Atakan, we felt 272 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 9: we should do something. Lived in Austining, went into the prison, 273 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 9: started teaching the class and came up with the idea 274 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 9: of a concert. 275 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: And for the prison concert. The first name that came 276 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: to mind. 277 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 9: We contacted the agent for BB King for the voices 278 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 9: of East Harlem. Lawren's also in the film. 279 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: They also had a connection with a folk music icon. 280 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 9: We knew Joan Baez from another film we had made 281 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 9: on Earl Scruggs, so we asked them whether they'd come 282 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 9: to the prison. 283 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: Surprisingly, they both said yes, But when the day came 284 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: to step inside Sing Sing Prison. 285 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 9: They were scared. They weren't comfortable. 286 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: For the show's opener, Hoffman hires the comedian Jimmy Walker 287 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: later of Good Time's fame Think Dinah Might. He's counted 288 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: on to keep things cool with the convicts. Plus there's 289 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: the recent cultural precedent. 290 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 9: Johnny Cash had done Johnny Cash at Fullsom Prison. The 291 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 9: problem was he just spoke to the audience from the stage. 292 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 9: There was never any real stuff with the inmates. 293 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: However, curiosity is only part of what Hoffman was feeling. 294 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: He's also fully taking part in an active experience of solidarity. 295 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 9: It wasn't that I was pro inmate. I didn't even 296 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 9: know who the inmates were. I didn't know anybody was 297 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 9: in the prison. Most of us didn't. Ninety nine percent 298 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 9: of us didn't like today. Nobody knows who's in the 299 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 9: joint today really, and nobody knows what's going on in there, 300 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 9: even though there are a fair amount of social programs. 301 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 9: So Attika provoked me and it provoked a lot of 302 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 9: people to try and figure out was something wrong there, 303 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 9: what was going on with the inmates mistreated. 304 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: The documentary film by David Hoffman, is recorded over two 305 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: days by seven cameras, with the intent to bring the 306 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: viewer not only inside the prison's walls, but up close 307 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: and personal with the prisoner's lived experience. 308 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 9: Well on November twenty second and twenty thirty in nineteen 309 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 9: seventy two, my team and I seven cameramen all directors, 310 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 9: really filmed this concert. 311 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: And as my Pops remembers it, the big story was 312 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: BB King and John Baez because John Bias had been 313 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: close to Bob Dylan, you know, and they had just 314 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: gone their separate ways. However, the inmates and sing sing 315 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: didn't share my Pop's love for Joan Biez. 316 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 7: All the prisoners wanted to see BB King, they weren't 317 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 7: so sure about John Bayev. 318 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 9: He introduced Joan in a kind way. Joan and the 319 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 9: audience did not connect. They did not connect. 320 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: Joan Biaz was fiercely political. Her ideals quite literally rang 321 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: out in her songs with that lasting vibrato, but in 322 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: sing Sing prison, it seemed that her operatic singing voice 323 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: just didn't really jive with that audience. When BB King 324 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: took the stage, he was casual with the inmates. He 325 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: joked that many of them might recognize one of his 326 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: band members, as if he'd once been inside. 327 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 7: Like I know all y'all. He based this, saying, all 328 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 7: y'all in here, but we could all be in here 329 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 7: me too. 330 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 9: A concert blew up. BB King was shocked, and we 331 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 9: were shocked for. 332 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: The ones locked up in sing saying that Thanksgiving and 333 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: lucky enough to hear BB King's blues echo inside the 334 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: prison's walls. The high point was when he played and 335 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 1: sang how Blue can You Get? You could say the 336 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: blues was born in juke joints and Delta nightclubs, but 337 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: it also feels equally at home inside a prison. The 338 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: men listening could feel the ache of BB King's lyrics, 339 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: and they could feel it in ways the rest of 340 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 1: us can never fully grasp. 341 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 9: We spent the day before filming inmates. Nobody'd have filmed inmates. 342 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 9: It's no earlier film, seeing them in the joint, hearing 343 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 9: what they think. Going to death row. I met guys 344 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 9: who had been in sings for thirty years. 345 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: When BB King reaches the finale of his show, he 346 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: sings directly to his audience. 347 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 9: Some of their faces are in one of the scenes 348 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 9: in my film where BB King sings someone Really Loves You. 349 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: The full title is someone really loves You Guess who? 350 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: BB King kroons and points his index finger back at 351 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: his own heart. The documentary film cameras catch this sublime 352 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: moment as they scanned the crowd of prisoners. Some of 353 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: the prison hardened men can be seen wiping tears from 354 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: their eyes. 355 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 9: I cut two faces of inmates just looking out at 356 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 9: the bars, and those faces you see, Wow, they're just 357 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 9: kind of left there. 358 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: The footage is astounding. The men's faces stay with you. 359 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: You can feel the walls of the prison, and when 360 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: BB King is on stage, you can feel his heart 361 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: right there in his guitar playing and hear it in 362 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: his voice. 363 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 9: I think that every time one saw BB King, one 364 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 9: felt the greatness of America. He went to that place 365 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 9: like Martin Luther King did where he didn't feel outside 366 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 9: of it, you felt inside of it. He made you 367 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 9: feel inside. Isn't that brilliant? He didn't do that, in 368 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 9: my view, he didn't plan that as a performance act. 369 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 9: That's how he was as a great human. 370 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: Years later, BB King would call his show in Sing 371 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: Sing that Thanksgiving Day quote his best performance to date. 372 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 9: That was a hell of a response that audience gave 373 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 9: bb He did not expect that. He had not had 374 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 9: that at other joints. It's nothing like what he did 375 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 9: at Sing Sing. 376 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: BB King is now known to many as a blues ambassador, 377 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: as in he brought blues music into the mainstream blues. 378 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 9: I didn't have blues like he experienced it. I didn't 379 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 9: grow up that way. I didn't have those hardships. But 380 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 9: I sure saw it as a new kind of folk music. 381 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 9: This wasn't the British invasion of the Beatles, although they 382 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 9: were popular too. This was American music. Blues was as 383 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 9: American as apple Pie, it seems. 384 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: As you may remember. Fred Wesley is the former band 385 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: leader for James Brown. He was also a horn player 386 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: for Iicantina Turner and for George Clinton's Parliament Funkadelic, so 387 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: the dude knows good music. Back when he was a 388 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: young and driven musician, Fred was lucky enough to get 389 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: his start with the proudly independent blues Ambassador BB King. 390 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 11: Bbking was the first big name artist that I had 391 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 11: ever played with. 392 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: Wesley got that first gig because, luckily for him, BB 393 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: King's bus broke down in Tennessee. Stuck on the road, 394 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: the blues man had to act fast and find some 395 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: replacement players. 396 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 11: They had a gig in a guff Boat, Mississippi, which 397 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 11: is about fifty miles from my hometown, Mobile, Alabama. So 398 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 11: he called one of his ex base players, Marshall Yawk. 399 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 11: I can't remember that, you know, to put a band 400 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 11: together to come to Gulfport, Mississippi to play with him, 401 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 11: you know. So Barshall Yacht called me and asked me 402 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 11: if I wanted to go play with B. B. 403 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 12: King. I said, oh, yeah, sure. 404 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: Fred Wesley was young, still somewhat green at this point, 405 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: playing big band style jazz, which is what it sounds like, 406 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: lots of horns, a big sound from a large orchestra 407 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: of instruments. 408 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 11: I was really taking aback because most of the tunes 409 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 11: were in E the key of E and A, and 410 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 11: I had never played in those kids do seriously, you know. 411 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 11: But anyway, when the gig was over, he paid me 412 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 11: twenty eight dollars. 413 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: At the time, that was a pretty penny to earn 414 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: for a night's work as a musician. 415 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 11: This was done a time when the top gig, the Mobile, 416 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 11: would pay eight dollars a night. You know, he gave 417 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 11: me twenty eight dollars and I was scared to go home, 418 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 11: and I said, it's gonna be I know, it gonna 419 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 11: be an accident from going back to Mobile because it's 420 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 11: too much money to have. 421 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 12: You know. 422 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: After the lucky and overpaid start, Fred Wesley began his 423 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: long career as a big time professional musician. It also 424 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: marked the beginning of his equally long friendship with B. B. 425 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 12: King. 426 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: Years later, the two men would share the same stage 427 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: at the Zaire seventy four Music Festival, and when Fred 428 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: heard his old friend BB King would be there, in kinshasa. 429 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 11: I can't believe, they'd say, BB King, the jazz Crusaders, 430 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 11: the Spinners. I said, I don't see how you gonna 431 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 11: get all these people together at one time to do 432 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 11: the music festival In Africa. 433 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: You know that would be a challenge, but that would 434 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: come later. For the moment, it's nineteen seventy two, an 435 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: election year, and that thanksgiving. BB King sings to the 436 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: men locked up inside sing Sing prison. Meanwhile, the up 437 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: and coming heavyweight contender George Foreman is staying busy kicking 438 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: all kind ass his record undefeated thirty two to zero. 439 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: Foreman is now the number one contender to challenge for 440 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: the title of heavyweight Champion of the World. It takes 441 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: him a minute, but eventually the reigning champ, smoking Joe Fraser, 442 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: entertains the idea of fighting Foreman. At the moment, Fraser 443 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: is the only undefeated heavyweight champion in the world ever 444 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: since he defeated Muhammad Ali in their Fight of the Century. 445 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: Now feeling confident after he bested Ali in the ring 446 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: and ready for a test of his reign as the 447 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: new champ, Joe Fraser agrees to fight Foreman. The upcoming 448 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: Fraser Foreman fight starts a new trend, a title bout 449 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: set in an exotic location. The two men agree to 450 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: hold their fight in Kingston, Jamaica, scheduled for January of 451 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. The interesting thing about the choice of 452 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: holding a prize fight in Jamaica is that in nineteen 453 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: seventy two, Jamaica was not the spot to go to. 454 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: That's why the Prime Minister of Jamaica, Michael Manley, negotiated 455 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: to host the heavyweight prize fight in Kingston. He wanted 456 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: to promote Jamaica as this hip new travel destination, and 457 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: his strategy of hyping his country to tourists by subsidizing 458 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: a heavyweight title fight became the blueprint that Zaiir would 459 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: later replicate for the Rumble in the Jungle. Meanwhile, back 460 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: in America, the Fraser Foreman heavyweight title fight was raising 461 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 1: a very curious cultural question. If Mohammad Ali isn't fighting, 462 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: then who will Black America root for. Oddly enough, even 463 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: without Ali and the ring, both heavyweight fighters still had 464 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: to live inside Ali's narrative part of the hype he 465 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: spins like flies stuck in a spider's web. When the 466 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: Fraser Foreman title fight is announced and scheduled, most Black 467 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: folks seem prime to root against the champ, Joe Fraser. 468 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: But the people aren't necessarily for George Foreman. All that 469 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: matters is that Foreman is not Joe Free. This is 470 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: the power of Ali's narrative. It looms over this fight. 471 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 13: Ever since Fraser defeated Muhammad Ali, he has become a 472 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 13: villain in the black community. Foreman was identified with Ali 473 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 13: for last night's fight, although the two boxers present a 474 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 13: vivid contrast, Ali the proud black Muslim who refused to 475 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 13: be inducted into the US Army and Foreman, the Olympic 476 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 13: hero who was remembered because he waived a miniature US 477 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 13: flag after his victory at the nineteen sixty eight Games 478 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 13: in Mexico City. 479 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 10: As fight writer Mark Kriegel puts it, Foreman comes into 480 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 10: this fight, He's almost an abstraction. He's an archetype. He's 481 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 10: sunny listed waving an American flag. 482 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: On January twenty second, nineteen seventy three, the Fraser Foreman 483 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: fight was broadcast by ABC's Wide World of Sports, which 484 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: also means it's quite famously called by Howard Cosell. The 485 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: legendary broadcaster is a key part of the cultural memory 486 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: of this fight. A fellow sports broad longtime host and 487 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: brand ambassador for the X Games, Selma Masekela, has mad 488 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: respect for Howard Cosell. And what he brought to the 489 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: fight game. 490 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 14: Cosselle was like he was a flawed bag, but I 491 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 14: mean Coselle to me, like, especially as a kid, was 492 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 14: the greatest setter of stage that ever lived in sports. 493 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 14: To this day, no one really amplified the stakes and 494 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 14: put it into a perspective that someone who was not 495 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 14: a sports fan had no choice but to pay attention 496 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 14: to Like he could draw these cultural comparisons in what 497 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 14: was going on in the world at the time that 498 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 14: made this, this fight or this event as important that 499 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 14: anything else is going on on the planet. So even 500 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 14: if you don't fuck with this, if this is not 501 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 14: your first language, you need. 502 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 12: To be here. 503 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: Cosell was the greatest at his game because he knew 504 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: the story. 505 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 14: And that was Cosell at the I mean, at the 506 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 14: highest level. And I don't I really do not think 507 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 14: that anyone has existed like him or ever will again. 508 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: And like Ali, he could infuse a narrative with a 509 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: sense of grandeur make the stakes obvious to anyone. 510 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 14: Coselle just like told the story, and he told the 511 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 14: story so eloquently that you didn't have a choice but 512 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 14: to care. 513 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 7: He was probably the most fair sports announcement that we 514 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 7: had in terms of being open, like when Ali changed 515 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 7: his name. So you say, they say your name, Muhammad Ali, 516 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 7: you annoying his casher's claims. What's your name? He said, uh, 517 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 7: Muhammad Ali. He took Muhammed it is, and he called 518 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 7: that from then on, you know, and then after that 519 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 7: everybody else started calling Muhammad. 520 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: The Fraser Foreman Heavyweight title, about short as it was, 521 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: is a spectacle of brutality. Joe Fraser comes into the 522 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: fight at five eleven two hundred and fourteen pounds. That's 523 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: eight pounds heavier than when he beat Ali. George Foreman 524 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: enters the ring weighing in at two hundred and seventeen pounds, 525 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: and he's in super human shape. Plus. Foreman enjoys about 526 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: three inches of height over Joe Fraser, and he has 527 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: the reach advantage as well. Yet Joe Fraser is still 528 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: the three to one favorite to win their title. Bout 529 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: no fear in either man. 530 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 8: There is no fear with George Foreman. He's grown enormously 531 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 8: in his confidence of speech and presence as well as 532 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 8: in boxing. 533 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: Round one, the favorite, the champ. Smoking Joe Fraser comes 534 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: out swinging and bobbing and weaving, eager to get to hitting. 535 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: Joe Fraser plans to get inside of Foreman's powerful punches, 536 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: then work the body of the big man, get him 537 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: to lower his gloves, and once Foreman has worn out, 538 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: Fraser will unload his left hook. But there's one problem 539 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: with Joe Fraser's plan. 540 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 8: Historically, Fraser it has not been a good first round fighter. 541 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: Foreman takes advantage of that fact. The big man pushes 542 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: the smaller fighter around the ring. He keeps Fraser off balance. 543 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: It's like watching an enormous lion paw at a hyena 544 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: who's dumb enough to come challenge him. 545 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 8: But historically he has been a tremendous, tremendous fighter, a 546 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 8: great champion. You saw the left hook land on Foreman. 547 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 8: That's what he'll be working on all night. 548 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it's a short night for Joe Fraser. One and 549 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: a half minutes into the first round. 550 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 8: There's another left by George. He's getting into Fraser's head. 551 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 8: We'll find out tonight just how good George Foreman is 552 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 8: at punching and taking a punch. 553 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: As if scripted, George Foreman answers Howard Cosell's question with 554 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: a punishing right to Fraser's head. Foreman follows that with 555 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: more brutal lefts and finally a right uppercut that could 556 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: kill a normal man. 557 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 8: I think he hurt Joe Fraser. I think Joe is hurt. 558 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 8: Angie Dundee, Polly's trainer right next to me is saying it. 559 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: Before Cosell can finish that thought, George Foreman catches Joe 560 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: Fraser with a short right uppercut to the head. It's 561 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: a devastating blow. That's when Howard Cosell explodes in enthusiasm. 562 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: He gives the world his famous call. 563 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 8: Down Goes Fraser. Down, Goes Fraser, Down, goes Fraser. 564 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: But the champ is not down long. He manages to 565 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: scramble back up to his feet. 566 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 3: However, when I got up, my legs were jelly. 567 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: There's still a minute left in the first round, but 568 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: the fight is essentially over. Foreman puts Fraser down on 569 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: the canvas six times in just one and a half 570 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: rounds of boxing. That's six times in four and a 571 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: half minutes. Boxing writer Mark Kriegel recalls. 572 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 10: How in the middle of it, Foreman yells to yank 573 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 10: dum in Fraser's corner like, hey, stop it, I'm gonna 574 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 10: kill this guy, and he wasn't kidding. 575 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 3: I can remember at one point late in the fight, 576 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 3: Foreman turned it to my corner and shouting something. I 577 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 3: could see Joe was hurt and I was hoping I 578 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 3: wouldn't have to hit him anymore. I just kept throwing punches. 579 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 3: I had to do my job. After the third knockdown 580 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 3: in the first round, I looked over at Yancey in 581 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 3: the corner and with my eyes begged him to stop it. 582 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: Luckily for Joe Fraser, after his sixth knockdown, the ref 583 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: stops the fight. Joe was likely to die fighting in 584 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: that ring, and George Foreman knew it, but he felt 585 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: it wasn't his job to stop himself. His job is 586 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: to beat a man senseless until he's crowned the victor. 587 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: When their title fight is over and done, George Foreman 588 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: feels badly about what he's just done to Joe Fraser. 589 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: The violence unsettles him, and when asked about Fraser, the 590 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 1: new heavyweight champion of the world, George Foreman is respectfully 591 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: kind to the now former champ, a stark contrast to 592 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: the ugliness between Fraser and Ali. 593 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 3: I was afraid of Joe Frasier for the first time 594 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 3: entering into the ring in a fight, I was afraid 595 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 3: of a god. 596 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: Equally, Joe Fraser speaks respectfully of the new champ. 597 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 12: I knew George Foreman was big and strong, but I 598 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 12: didn't realize he was that strong. I started to fight 599 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 12: back when I should have bobbed and weaped. I was 600 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 12: anxious to get at him. 601 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 13: I should have laid back and let my head clear. 602 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: Afterwards, in Joe Fraser's dressing room, his trainer, Yank Durham, 603 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: answers questions from the press. Smoking, Joe says nothing, his 604 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: face swollen, his spirit broken. He looks like a potato 605 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: gone rotten. Eventually, after the press leaves, there's a long 606 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: silence in Fraser's dressing room, and then Joe Fraser looks 607 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: up at Yank Durham, looks him dead in the eye, 608 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: and he says, in a voice humbled by George Foreman, 609 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I tried. Era is officially over. There is 610 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: a new heavyweight champion of the world, and his name 611 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: is George Foreman. After he wins the heavyweight championship title, 612 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: Foreman retires to his hotel room. He calls his mother 613 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: and tells her what he's done. Next, he calls his 614 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: wife Adrian and tells her he's the new champion of 615 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: the world. According to a sparring partner there in the 616 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: hotel room with Foreman after the fight, once he phones 617 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: the two women he loves, George Quote drank four glasses 618 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: of orange juice and then stood looking out the hotel 619 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: window at Kingston. After all his wild teenage years of 620 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: smoking and drinking down in pills, getting into gang fights, 621 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: mugging decent folk, and evading the law, Foreman has finally 622 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: done it the unexpected. He's made something of himself. This 623 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: makes him immensely proud. A glass of orange juice is 624 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: how he celebrates just how far he's come. The same night, 625 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: George Foreman wins his heavyweight championship, President Lyndon Baines Johnson 626 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 1: passes away. Foreman considered LBJ to be a great man, 627 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: and it was thanks to lbj's program, The Job Corps, 628 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: that Foreman's life radically changed. Sadly, LBJ does not live 629 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 1: to see Foreman become champion of the world. In his place, 630 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: his widow first Lady Lady Bird Johnson wrote to Foreman 631 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: to congratulate him. But now that George Foreman's the new 632 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: heavyweight champion of the world, his wife Adrian is possibly 633 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: the most thrilled. 634 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 3: Maybe the biggest change is just having the fight over. 635 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 3: When we finally signed, my wife and I sat down 636 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 3: and talked about it, and we both admitted that Joel 637 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 3: Fraser was one tough man. There were a lot of 638 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,919 Speaker 3: nights after that, times when I'd be frustrated that we'd 639 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 3: end up in the middle of the room with her 640 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 3: Plan Fraser. She'd come at me kind of like Joe does, 641 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 3: and I'd show her how I was gonna handle him. 642 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 3: That night, I remember calling her after I won. The 643 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,879 Speaker 3: first thing she said was, thank God, God, it's over. 644 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 3: I don't have to play Joe Fraser anymore. 645 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: Thanks to jet travel in the early seventies, the world 646 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: is growing both smaller and more international by the day. Consequently, 647 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden is no longer the expectant home for 648 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: the next heavyweight title fight, not the way it had 649 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 1: been for close to a century, ever since boxers first 650 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: put on gloves. The reason is one man, the same 651 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: notorious boxing promoter there that night in Kingston Jamaica at 652 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: the National Stadium when Joe Fraser lost his title, his 653 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: name Don King, and he could see the future of boxing. 654 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 10: King's point of entry is Jamaica at Fraser Forming. 655 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: Don King rode to the fight beside the chap Joe 656 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,439 Speaker 1: Fraser there in his limo, but later when the fight 657 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: skipped off the track of what everyone had expected. The 658 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: story is. 659 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 10: That he starts out sitting near Fraser's corner, and as 660 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 10: the fight progresses, he moves very quickly to Foreman's corner. 661 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 10: He came in Fraser's limo and goes home in Foreman's 662 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 10: limos and he brags about it. I came with the 663 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 10: champion and I left with the champion. 664 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: From that point on, Don King becomes a satellite orbiting 665 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: whoever is the heavyweight champion of the world. That's also 666 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 1: how he's able to orchestrate the most renowned fight in history, 667 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: the Rumble in the Jungle. Muhammad Ali's cornerman Bundini Brown 668 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: was also there at the National Stadium in Kingston, Jamaica, 669 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: there for the Fraser Foreman fight. Afterwards, Bundini gave his 670 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: man Ali all the credit for Foreman's victory over Joe Fraser, 671 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: He reminded reporters, Ali put Fraser in the hospital for 672 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: a month. As Bundini put it, quote, Mahammad Ali made 673 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: Joe Fraser drunk, and anybody can mug a drunk. There 674 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: is a truth in Bundini's words, but the more powerful 675 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: implication is that now Ali must square up against this 676 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: new champ, that is, if he wants to win back 677 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: his title. Meanwhile, George Foreman just wants to go home 678 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: to go see his family and maybe speak to some 679 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: school kids. 680 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 3: I am not thinking about any big fights now. I 681 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 3: want a long rest. I want to go home and 682 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 3: see my daughter. After that, I want to go all 683 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 3: around the country to Houston and cities like that and 684 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 3: talk to kids. I want to tell them they can 685 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 3: do anything they want if they try. I am an example. 686 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: At this point, Muhammad Ali has spent years waiting to 687 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: regain his title, but he feels he has unfinished business 688 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: with Joe Fraser. Yet, after the world witness George Foreman 689 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: absolutely demolished Joe Fraser in less than two rounds, Smart 690 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: Money no longer seemed to think that the aging Ali 691 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: could possibly beat George the Giant. Yet somehow, the old 692 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: Ali myth still holds strong. Impressive as that Fraser Foreman 693 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: title fight was, it doesn't take the boxing press long 694 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 1: to begin to question the new champ for one simple 695 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: reason He's yet to fight Muhammad Ali. Plus, the sports 696 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: writers are somewhat annoyed by the fact that the new 697 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: champ is no dream for someone working on a deadline. 698 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: For one, he's nowhere near as quotable as Ali. Foreman 699 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: just isn't as charming. He doesn't drum up the drama, 700 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: nor does he create scenes and fresh headlines like Ali does. 701 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: At least smoking Joe Frasier was a fun champ, but 702 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: Foreman he certainly can't match wits with Ali. Instead, George 703 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: Foreman tends to say things like. 704 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 3: You know, I've come out sometimes before saying the American 705 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 3: system is a system you cannot knock. People say, be quiet. 706 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 3: Why look at these kids. They're all colors, all creeds, 707 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 3: and they're involved in the cleanest thing there is sports. 708 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 3: There's no life without sports. You look at these kids 709 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 3: and what they're doing, and it makes you proud of 710 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 3: the American system. 711 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 1: In the ongoing culture fight, George Foreman chooses a side 712 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: the status quo the first time Foreman defends his world 713 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: heavyweight title. It's against the contender, Ken Norton. He's a 714 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: young heavy hitter. The Foreman Norton title fight takes place 715 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: on March twenty sixth, nineteen seventy four, down in Caracas, Venezuela. 716 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: It's yet another exotic location, the new trend for title fights. 717 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: George Foreman's first defense of his title. It doesn't last long. 718 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: Foreman dismantles Norton in two rounds, same as he did 719 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: with Joe Frasier. He wins his title fight against Norton easily, 720 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: but then, in a strange plot twist, the Venezuelan authorities 721 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: allege that Foreman didn't pay his tax bill on his 722 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: prize money from the fight. The government claims the tax 723 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: bill is due immediately after his championship bout, but then 724 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: Foreman refuses to pay. He believes it's the promoter's responsibility. 725 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: So Foreman tries to flee Venezuela, drives out to the airport, 726 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: tries to make his escape, but at the airport, Foreman 727 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: is met by armed soldiers. They tell the new champ 728 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: he will pay his Venezuelan taxes. 729 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 3: Last Thursday, when they took me away from the airport. 730 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,720 Speaker 3: I had the feeling that if I tried to board 731 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 3: the plane, I'd have been shot. 732 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: Foremans held prisoner in Venezuela at gunpoint until he coughs 733 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: up cash to the Venezuelan government. 734 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 3: I was gangsted. For the world heavyweight champion to be 735 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 3: treated like a tramp isn't a good feeling. For the 736 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 3: first time in my life, I felt like a prison. 737 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: Foreman remains a captive down there until the promoter for 738 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: the fight, Don King, arranges his release. While it might 739 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: seem like he's protecting his fighter, Nope, it's more like 740 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,879 Speaker 1: he's protecting his next big fight. You see, just one 741 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: day before the title fight against Ken Norton, Don King 742 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: announced it as George Foreman's next title fight defense. It 743 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,760 Speaker 1: would be a super fight against Muhammad Ali, and that's 744 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: why he paid money to free Foreman. Once Foreman is 745 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: liberated from Venezuela and he's back home in the USA, 746 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: the date for this next great Championship title fight is set. 747 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 3: What's my understanding that the fight will be held in Africa, 748 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 3: and that is more fitting. That way, I can knock 749 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 3: him all over the jungle on the next episode of Rumble. 750 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 13: Don King is the newest strong man in fight promotion. 751 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 10: Rumbling the Jungle does not get made without his immense 752 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 10: ego and ambition. 753 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: This was his major hustle. 754 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 9: He just did an incredible job bringing the two of 755 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 9: them together. 756 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 4: In the handsome pages of blank paper at George Foreman 757 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 4: goes for it. He just signs all of these blank 758 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 4: sheets of paper. 759 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 12: It was all done with a handshake. All involved contracts, 760 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 12: no lawyers. It was man against man, Blacks and blacks trust, 761 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 12: just trust. 762 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 15: Rumbell is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 763 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 15: Rumbell is written and hosted by Zaren Burnett. The third 764 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 15: produced and directed by Julia Chriscau. Sound designed and scoring 765 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:31,280 Speaker 15: by Jesse Niswanger. Original music composed by Jordan Manley and T. J. Merritt. 766 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 15: Series concept by Gary Stromberg. Executive producers are Jason English, 767 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 15: Sean Titone, Gary Stromberg, Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley, and 768 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 15: Brandon barr Our. Senior producer is Amelia Brock, Production manager 769 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,239 Speaker 15: Daisy Church, fact checker Savannah Hugley. Legal services provided by 770 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 15: Canoell Hanley PC. Additional production by Claire Keating and John Washington. 771 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 15: Casting director Julia Chriscau. Support services provided by Breakdown Express. 772 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,800 Speaker 15: Episode five cast John Washington as Sonny Liston, Anthony Brandon 773 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 15: Walker as George Foreman, Abraham Amka as Mohammad Ali, Arthur 774 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:19,320 Speaker 15: Dent as Joe Frasier, Wayne j As Howard Cosell, Julia 775 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,839 Speaker 15: Chriscau as news reporter. Special thanks to Lewis Ehrenberg. Check 776 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 15: out his book Rumble in the Jungle. It's a great resource. 777 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,280 Speaker 15: Also thanks to Jonathan I for his book Ali a Life. 778 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 15: And finally thanks to Zaren's pops Zeek, who grounds this 779 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,160 Speaker 15: material like no one else. 780 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 13: If you like the show, let us know. 781 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 15: Like subscribe, leave five star reviews. 782 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 13: It really helps. 783 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 15: Also check out our show notes for a full list 784 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 15: of reference materials.