1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

6
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,239
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

9
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

10
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 4: Good morning, Happy Wednesday, Welcome to Counterpoints. All right, so

11
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,599
Speaker 4: today we are excited to announce the Friday edition of

12
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 4: our show.

13
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:33,479
Speaker 3: Thanks to the.

14
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 4: Support of Breaking Points viewers, listeners and premium subscribers.

15
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,880
Speaker 5: Every Friday, you can expect to see us actually right here,

16
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,519
Speaker 5: but with a slightly different format. We're excited to be

17
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 5: hosting long form debates, interviews and all that good stuff

18
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 5: starting this Friday.

19
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 4: Actually, and it's not going to be like Crossfire. It's

20
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 4: not going to be a point scoring thing. We're not

21
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 4: going to be trying to make people look stupid, although

22
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:56,959
Speaker 4: if somebody is stupid, we're gonna.

23
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 5: They're welcome to look so they're welcome to We're not

24
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 5: going to prevent people from right but we're not going.

25
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 4: To try to do it on purpose. It's not going

26
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 4: to be a kind of partisan back and forth. It's

27
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,720
Speaker 4: going to be more of an effort to kind of

28
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 4: shed light rather than heat.

29
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 3: Maybe. Yeah, we'll see.

30
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,920
Speaker 5: I think that's a good way to put it, and

31
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 5: like find the contrast, figure out where it actually is,

32
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 5: get rid of those traps that keep us outraged but

33
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,360
Speaker 5: poorly informed.

34
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 3: Yes.

35
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,680
Speaker 5: Well, like many of you, Ryan and I want to

36
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,320
Speaker 5: see people that we agree with and people that we

37
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 5: disagree with actually just kind of talk it out. Sometimes

38
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 5: we'll grill those people ourselves. Other times we'll facilitate debates

39
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 5: between different maybe election officials, other journalists, and thought leaders.

40
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,559
Speaker 5: So that's the plan, and.

41
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 4: We're grateful with Crystal and Saga for continuing to build

42
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 4: this network, grateful to all of you for continuing to

43
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 4: make it a profitable enterprise or maybe a profitable enterprise eventually,

44
00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 4: Ryan of the capitalist that's right, and it's what enables

45
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 4: us to do this show.

46
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 5: Well. Premium subscribers will get every edition of the Friday

47
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 5: Show straight to their inbox early, so you can head

48
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 5: on over to Breakingpoints dot com if you'd like to

49
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,520
Speaker 5: join us for that. We appreciate almost two years now

50
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 5: of support from the Breaking Points community, feedback, friendship from everyone.

51
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 5: It's been awesome.

52
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 4: And with that will leave you with the teams. We've

53
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,239
Speaker 4: got a big guest for Friday. I don't I don't

54
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 4: want to play them up too much. I think you're

55
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 4: going to kind of laugh when you see it. But

56
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,960
Speaker 4: also I think you'll enjoy it.

57
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 5: I think it'll be I think it'll be a really

58
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 5: good conversation. I'm actually very excited about it.

59
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 4: It might be a little bit of a spit take, like, really,

60
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,519
Speaker 4: that's what you got, It'll be kind of funny, it'll

61
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 4: it'll it'll be a good conversation.

62
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 5: Now, last night, yes, huge, huge deal past the Senate.

63
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 5: We're going to break down all of that. We're going

64
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 5: to talk about some updates of the Middle Least. We're

65
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 5: going to talk about Lena Kahn and you have to

66
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,520
Speaker 5: see voting to ban non compete clauses. Ryan, you've got

67
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 5: an interesting story for us, and we have a great

68
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 5: guest from Columbia. Before we get to that, you have

69
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,480
Speaker 5: some news out of Pennsylvania. There were elections last night.

70
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 5: It was a Tuesday.

71
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so last night Summer Lee was up for re election.

72
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 4: She had a significant contest. She had, I should say,

73
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 4: a significant challenger from her right. Summer Lee was one

74
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 4: of the first members of Congress to come out for

75
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:04,839
Speaker 4: a cease.

76
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 3: Fire in Gaza.

77
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 4: Apax spent millions of dollars against her in twenty twenty two,

78
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,119
Speaker 4: was aiming for her in twenty twenty four, but they

79
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 4: saw kind of how strong she was looking going into

80
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 4: her primary, decided not to spend money.

81
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 3: Now. Jeff yass who is a.

82
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 4: Republican billionaire in Pennsylvania, a close ally of Netnaho.

83
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 5: Actually big TikTok investor.

84
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 3: Big TikTok investor.

85
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 4: He financed Netnahu's attempt to take over the courts to

86
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 4: dodge his little corruption scandal that he's got over there.

87
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 3: He put at least eight hundred thousand dollars in another race.

88
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 4: We don't know exactly how much because the final FEC

89
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 4: reports aren't out. But the election last night was a

90
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 4: decisive victory for Summerly, winning by at least twenty points

91
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 4: as they continue to count the votes. As Summerly put it,

92
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 4: opposing genocide is not just good policy, it's also good politics.

93
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 3: Here she is last Night's burg.

94
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,920
Speaker 5: But you know what we send a message, and we

95
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 5: knew when we sail in the very beginning that this

96
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 5: was the message that we were sending. That this movement is.

97
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 6: Moment billionaire.

98
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 7: Shoot at this staga, that everybody who wants to.

99
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 5: Say that the power of the people is not stronger

100
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:35,679
Speaker 5: than the people of power.

101
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 8: But we more.

102
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 4: And Emily last night in the Senate billions of dollars

103
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 4: more for three war theaters Ukraine, Israel and also China.

104
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 4: China just keeps getting kind of smuggled into this conversation.

105
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, if we're gonna we're gonna spend sends of

106
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 4: billions of dollars on war, let's make sure we're beefing

107
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 4: up for World War three in that region as as well.

108
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 3: So were you what did you? What did you make

109
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:05,600
Speaker 3: of Congress?

110
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 4: Finally, after months of hemming and hauling doing what kind

111
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 4: of everybody expected that they would do in fun more war.

112
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I would say, so, let's we can put

113
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 5: this next element up on the screen. There was overwhelming

114
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,040
Speaker 5: support for this bill.

115
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,280
Speaker 3: And how did this take a year?

116
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:24,280
Speaker 6: Right?

117
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,720
Speaker 5: No, it's amazing. Actually, maybe that's the real accomplishment of

118
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,840
Speaker 5: the Freedom Caucus. It's that they delayed this for a

119
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,599
Speaker 5: year now. There were there is a pretty impressive list,

120
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 5: I would say of Republicans who voted against this bill,

121
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 5: even including people who have traditionally been kind of hawkish

122
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 5: like Marco Rubio Ted Cruz. When you lose Ted Cruz

123
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,599
Speaker 5: on an Israel bill, that's I think something. And actually,

124
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,839
Speaker 5: on that note, we can put the next element up

125
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 5: on the screen. This is what's in the bill that

126
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 5: the final bill that was passed. So it's sixty billion

127
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 5: dollars for you carrying fifteen billion dollar that will include

128
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 5: facilitating weapons sales. Fifteen billion of that is for training

129
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 5: and intelligence, military training and intelligence. Eight billion is going

130
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,120
Speaker 5: to go to the Ukrainian government government operations, one point

131
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 5: six billion allocated to the private sector, fourteen billion for Israel,

132
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 5: eight billion for roughly the China theater. So that's kind

133
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 5: of how the numbers break down and what was actually

134
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:22,600
Speaker 5: passed last night.

135
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,279
Speaker 4: And no money in there for defense attorneys at the Hague.

136
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,599
Speaker 4: But maybe there'll be some pro bono help.

137
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:28,840
Speaker 3: From the US.

138
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 5: Pretty sure they always have money for that. Yeah, there's

139
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 5: always money in the bananas, Stan, ye, yes.

140
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,720
Speaker 3: So take them one by one. Ted Cruz is a

141
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 3: politician's politician.

142
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 4: They're all politicians, but Ted Cruz is the one that

143
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 4: I like to watch in the Senate to get a

144
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 4: sense of how which way the winds are blowing and

145
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 4: of the political movement because he really has his kind

146
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 4: of finger on the pulse of the grassroots. And so

147
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 4: to see Ted Cruz come out and vote no on

148
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 4: a war spending package that includes billions of dollars for Israel,

149
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 4: just you know, days after the Iran attack, which Israel

150
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 4: believed was going to really help Greece, this this package

151
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 4: through and it did actually help grease this package through

152
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 4: suggest that there's you know, something bubbling, you know, within

153
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 4: the kind of Republican caucus that has gotten to the surface.

154
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 3: If Ted Cruz is feeling the heat of it. Is

155
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 3: that an accurate read? You know, I trust your judgment

156
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 3: on the internal Republican politics more than my own.

157
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's absolutely an accurate read.

158
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 4: You know, it's and what is It's Ukraine. It's Ukraine overriding,

159
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 4: the isolationism overriding.

160
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 5: It's border, the border, it's the border. It's because this

161
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 5: didn't include a dime for the border, and people will

162
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 5: guess that, People will say well, you know, what do

163
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 5: you what do you mean? There was that deal that

164
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 5: bipart isn't compromised deal that was brokeer. My opinion on

165
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 5: that bill is that it is intentionally designed to and

166
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 5: there are a lot of exemptions in it. We could

167
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 5: debate it, and we debated it at the time, and

168
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 5: I think Crystal and Sacker debated it at the time too.

169
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 5: There were a lot of exemptions written into the bill

170
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 5: that would have basically maintained presidential power that you could

171
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 5: sort of carve out some of the small concessions Democrats

172
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,239
Speaker 5: made on asylum and all of that. But the point

173
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 5: is Republicans were furious.

174
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 3: With so they wanted the border money in there. And

175
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 3: if they didn't get the border money in there, yes,

176
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,480
Speaker 3: Israel doesn't any money.

177
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 5: And so the media is looking at this and saying like,

178
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,880
Speaker 5: Mitch McConnell broke her to deal with Chuck Schumer and

179
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,319
Speaker 5: James Langford, and Republicans are like, well, we never supported

180
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 5: that deal. We never would have supported that deal. And

181
00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 5: so because they got so screwed by leadership on the

182
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 5: House side that Mike Johnson said that over and over

183
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 5: and over again that you can't have a dime more

184
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 5: for Ukraine until you do something serious about the border,

185
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,719
Speaker 5: and he basically flip flopped on it, and again like

186
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 5: what was going to happen? Probably this was always the

187
00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 5: inevitable result, but Republicans felt like they didn't even fight.

188
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 5: And then on top of the it is the kind

189
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 5: of Ukraine. I don't want to call it isolationism because

190
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 5: now we're how many years into the war and people

191
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 5: like Ted Cruz, Mark Rubio like there and most Republicans

192
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 5: actually were initially pretty supportive of the war effort. It's

193
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,199
Speaker 5: just the Biden administration prosecution of the policy coupled with

194
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:19,440
Speaker 5: no border support.

195
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 4: And this is what they call in Congress a free

196
00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 4: vote because whenever it's this overwhelming, like the outcome is

197
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 4: already determined, like you know, no matter how Ted Cruz votes,

198
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 4: the bill is going to pass. So that means it

199
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 4: is a pure political calculation, like where does he want

200
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,199
Speaker 4: his name to appear on the YA or the n

201
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,719
Speaker 4: A column, And so that goes to how is this

202
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 4: going to look at back home?

203
00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 2: Now?

204
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 4: How is this going to look in presidential primaries in

205
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 4: the future, And clearly, you know he made the calculation.

206
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 3: A no vote is going is the winner here. Mitch McConnell.

207
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,680
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, kind of doing at victory lap or a dance

208
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:03,800
Speaker 4: on Tucker Carlson's had here. So really kind of interesting

209
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 4: comments from Mitch McConnell afterwards. Let's let's let's roll roll

210
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 4: him on Tucker Carlson.

211
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 9: The demonization of Ukraine began by Tucker Carlson, who, in

212
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 9: my opinion, ended up or he should have been all along,

213
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 9: which was interviewing Vladimir Putin, and so he had an

214
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 9: enormous audience which convinced a lot of rank and viile Republicans.

215
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 9: It maybe this was a.

216
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 5: Mistake that dare you interview foreign leaders?

217
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, set us time.

218
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 4: Whatever you think of Tucker Carlson, the idea that you

219
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,599
Speaker 4: can't interview a foreign leader, even a dictator, is you know,

220
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 4: utterly absurd. But what's what's interesting about that clip is

221
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,120
Speaker 4: that's what passes for emotion from Mitch McConnell.

222
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,640
Speaker 3: There there may be no stronger.

223
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 4: Supporter of the war, in supporting the war in Ukraine

224
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,319
Speaker 4: than Mitch McConnell. His his ability to move money, you know,

225
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,319
Speaker 4: to Ukraine through the Lame Duck, uh, you know, was

226
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 4: one of the biggest gifts to the Ukrainian War effort,

227
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,199
Speaker 4: and you know, he put all of the capital that

228
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 4: he had remaining, you know, into it, and it people

229
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 4: have talked about it as really one of the only

230
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 4: things he has really ever believed in, other than opening

231
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,400
Speaker 4: up campaign finance laws like that. Like it's that plus

232
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 4: the Ukraine War. And we don't need to get into

233
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 4: the psychology of why that is or what happened.

234
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 3: It's it just is.

235
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 4: And he played he and Kevin McCarthy teaming up with

236
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,079
Speaker 4: Democrats who are almost unanimously supportive of it, you know,

237
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 4: have been able to muscle through all of this support.

238
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,959
Speaker 4: But I found it really interesting that he pinpoints Tucker

239
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 4: Carlson as kind of the problem that the problem with

240
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 4: inside the Republican coalition that that produced this opposition internally.

241
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 5: And implication of that, by the way, is that his

242
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 5: own voters who disagree with him on this are so

243
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 5: stupid they just mindlessly followed Tucker Carlos guy exactly. Not

244
00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 5: that they found they're intelligent that he does it, that

245
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 5: they're intelligent people who maybe found an alternative argument compelling.

246
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,040
Speaker 5: And it's hardly just Tucker Carlson. It's never just been

247
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,560
Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson. There have been plenty and plenty of other

248
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 5: people Mitch McConnell would complain about. It's not as though

249
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,440
Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson is like the origin of what McConnell sees

250
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,760
Speaker 5: as this cancer spreading throughout the country. Because to your point,

251
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 5: even Ted Kruz, this is Cruz on Fox. I pulled

252
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,439
Speaker 5: this up after you mentioned it. Ryan, he said, I'm

253
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 5: going to vote no on Fox. But I will tell

254
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,439
Speaker 5: you this is a very close call. And I struggled

255
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 5: for a long time without a vote because there are

256
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,839
Speaker 5: elements of this bill I really, really strongly support. This

257
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,199
Speaker 5: has military aid for Israel. Israel's in the middle of

258
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,000
Speaker 5: a war. We should have provided this emergency military aid.

259
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 5: But I can't support this bill ultimately because it gives

260
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 5: money to Gaza, gives money for the NGOs that are

261
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 5: trafficking illegal immigrants, and it does nothing zero to stop

262
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,559
Speaker 5: the invasion at our southern border. It's got to be

263
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 5: the priority. If you're listening to this. Ryan just put

264
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,240
Speaker 5: his head in his hands and he just seemed to

265
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 5: sigh an exasperation.

266
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 4: So Ted Cruz, with more than two million people facing starvation,

267
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,079
Speaker 4: voted against the bill, not because it was sending weapons

268
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 4: to the people who are organizing that starvation, but because

269
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,440
Speaker 4: it also sent food and water and humanitarian relief supplies

270
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 4: to the people in Gaza, which he claims is somehow

271
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,679
Speaker 4: connected to a train of trafficking to the border.

272
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 5: Well and noticing he mentioned yeah, so the NGOs. It's

273
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 5: a lot of the things throughout Central America like.

274
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,599
Speaker 4: Those he's saying this and right he's saying that, like

275
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,080
Speaker 4: Hamasa is like trafficking people to the border and they're

276
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 4: going to use this like money.

277
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 5: Oh no, I think he's talking about like the like

278
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 5: the various aid groups, whether it's like things that are being.

279
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 3: He thinks here is a Pamas front for instance.

280
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 5: Well, but also the stuff in you know, like the

281
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 5: Dairying Gap. Some of those groups not and not so

282
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 5: much that they're facilitating although he objects to this too.

283
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 5: I'm sure facilitating your terrorists coming up or using the border.

284
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,000
Speaker 3: Next that to Gaza is But.

285
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,320
Speaker 5: I think he's talking about like the Catholic charities or

286
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 5: whatever that incentive bias, and they are funded by the UN.

287
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 5: They are I don't know exactly about this bill, but

288
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,200
Speaker 5: I think that's what he's subjecting to just the broader

289
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,720
Speaker 5: question of those NGOs facilitating people coming in. And actually

290
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 5: we've written at the Federal spout some of those groups

291
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 5: that are like explicitly evangelical and Catholic and they basically

292
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 5: help people get through the Darien Gap, like here, you

293
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 5: might die, but clearly you're going to do it anyway,

294
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 5: so we'll be here to help out you. And I

295
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 5: probably disagree with yah, but I think.

296
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 3: That's what we may or may not.

297
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 4: But like to connect that to humanitarian relief organizations in Gaza,

298
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 4: to me is it makes it almost impossible to even

299
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 4: have any kind of non psychedelic conversation about the situation.

300
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 4: It's like like there is a genoside going on there,

301
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 4: like hundreds of thousands of people immediate risk of famine,

302
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 4: millions at risk of starvation. Israel's blockading relief efforts from

303
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 4: getting in and this has some peanuts for the people

304
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 4: who are suffering through that. And Cruiz connects it to

305
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 4: the aid organizations that he objects to the activities and

306
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 4: the Darien Gap and the way that they're incentivizing migrants,

307
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 4: which like I see what.

308
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 5: You're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well Tom Cotton did

309
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,800
Speaker 5: not he supported the bill. Kitty Britt supported the bill

310
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 5: ninety five billion dollars in total. By the way, we

311
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 5: haven't even mentioned that includes the TikTok divestment or the

312
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 5: package TikTok divestment.

313
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 3: So Peter Wells sended it to a year. So your

314
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 3: TikTok's okay for at least a year.

315
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 5: I mean it will likely always be okay. We'll just

316
00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 5: come under different owners because they know they can make

317
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 5: a ton of money off of this, and that's how

318
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 5: it'll bay.

319
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 3: They might screw it up, like chairman, she's doing a

320
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 3: good job with it so far.

321
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 5: Right, even better, it's too addictive China where the kids

322
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 5: are like eating their vegetables.

323
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 4: On do you and what I think the compromise should

324
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 4: be that the Chinese regulate social media for our children

325
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,880
Speaker 4: because we have a collective action problem here as a

326
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 4: parent of kids, like when everybody else's kids is able

327
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 4: to see YouTube and is able to be on like

328
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 4: this or that, Like it's asking too much to say

329
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 4: that each individual parent needs to solve that.

330
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 3: You need a collective solution. What is what's chairman, she's

331
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: ruled over there. You get like one hour on Friday

332
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 3: of video games one hour on Saturday video games. And

333
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 3: then that's for everybody. It's all the kids out for kids.

334
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 4: So the kids that are not like complaining and throwing

335
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 4: a temper tantrum and the parents being like, all right,

336
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 4: finally leave me alone. So that should be the compromise.

337
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 4: Let she manage our kids access to social media, and

338
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 4: then maybe that's the political speech. And then they can

339
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 4: also apparently and they can also do social medias like

340
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 4: TikTok is. Apparently they're better at it than our people are, Like,

341
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 4: we can't win without just passing a law of banning

342
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 4: their stuff.

343
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 5: The list of people who voted no, I mean, I'm

344
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 5: looking at it right now. At one point in the

345
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 5: list on the Washington Post website, it goes Jeff Merkley,

346
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 5: Marco Rubio, Bernie Sanders, Eric Schmidt. I mean, it's just

347
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 5: a really interesting coalition of people. And again they're finding

348
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 5: different reasons to disagree with the bill. So, for example,

349
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 5: Ted Cruz cited first the first thing he cited was

350
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 5: the Israel problems that he had with the bill that

351
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 5: we just talked about, but then went into the border.

352
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 5: I think for a lot of these guys, they would

353
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 5: first and foremost say it was the lack of border funding.

354
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 5: Some of them might have objected to, in fact, the

355
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 5: TikTok divestment, but overall, when you find Bernie Sanders and

356
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 5: Marco Rubio together against this huge what was the final

357
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 5: vote was seventy nine and support eighteen against and so

358
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,120
Speaker 5: three didn't vote. There are two of them came out

359
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 5: against the bill. One of them came out for the bill.

360
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 5: That's Tim Scott, Rand Paul and Tommy Tubberville were against

361
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 5: the package. They didn't vote because it was, like you said,

362
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 5: a free vote. So if your fundraising or whatever, I

363
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 5: don't agree with it.

364
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,160
Speaker 4: But that's what they do well, and it's it's easier

365
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 4: than to tell groups like, oh I would have voted,

366
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,639
Speaker 4: your would have scored you yeah, and to say like

367
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 4: I would have you know, if he's meeting with a

368
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 4: pro Israel group, you can say, yeah.

369
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 3: I would have voted for that money.

370
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 4: If he's meeting with a border group, you could say

371
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 4: I was going to vote against that, like members of

372
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 4: Congress are known to do that.

373
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 5: But when sometimes they scored you and it goes into

374
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 5: your score, so.

375
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,400
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, so then but putting all of these

376
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 4: things together in one bill is just one more way

377
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 4: of kind of abstracting politics away from people. Like because

378
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 4: if if everybody was forced to vote yes or no

379
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 4: on TikTok, yes or no on Ukraine, yes or no

380
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 4: on money for a war with China, yes or no

381
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 4: on money for the war for Israel's war, like, then

382
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 4: when they run for reelection, people will know, oh, they

383
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 4: voted yes on this, they voted no on that.

384
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 3: Here's who I support.

385
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 4: So that's it's a little bit more representative democracy when

386
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 4: you put everything in there together and just ask people

387
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 4: to do one giant yes or no. It's it's just

388
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 4: a one more effort to confuse people and and to

389
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 4: kind of separate the idea of accountability and representation.

390
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 5: That is such a good point, and it was one

391
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 5: of the conditions actually.

392
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,400
Speaker 3: The Freedom Caucus one like single issue votes.

393
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 5: I was, well, she votes, and that was part of

394
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 5: their deal in the rules package with Kevin McCarthy. And

395
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 5: it has not turned out that way at all. And

396
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 5: Mike Johnson, of course, is somebody who's always been you know,

397
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 5: in just he said many times, so we shouldn't governed

398
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 5: by omnibus, and we shouldn't governed by omnibus precisely because

399
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 5: of this. It was the only way, and they knew this,

400
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,879
Speaker 5: and Mike Johnson knew this. The only way that Mike

401
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 5: Johnson was going to get the money for Israel. He

402
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 5: figured this out pretty you know, it was pretty quickly

403
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 5: apparent to him after he took the job. The only

404
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 5: way that they were going to be able to get

405
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 5: money allocated to Israel was to tie it. And Mitch

406
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 5: McConnell the same thing. The only reason they were going

407
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,800
Speaker 5: to get money that was going to go to Ukraine

408
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 5: was to tie it to Israel. And for Johnson, he

409
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 5: just realized he couldn't attach meaningful border security to it

410
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 5: in the way that the rest of his conference wanted

411
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 5: because there was nothing that you could do in the Senate.

412
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 5: And so he said, this is more important. Israelis more important.

413
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 5: He flip flopped on Ukraine aid it's another thing he

414
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 5: said he wouldn't do without border security, and here we

415
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 5: are because when you combine them all together, it's the

416
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 5: only way that you can build coalitions instead of having

417
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 5: people forced to be courageous and vote up and down

418
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 5: on individual items. It's not a good thing, it's not

419
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 5: a healthy thing. We're also watching very closely. Yesterday the

420
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 5: second theater of conflict, which was in the courtroom in

421
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 5: New York. Donald Trump had a real one yesterday. We

422
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 5: can put this first Alan, We're gonna roll this first element,

423
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 5: because as the Trump trial has commenced in New York,

424
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 5: there are no cameras, there's no audio allowed, and yet

425
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 5: we're still getting so much drama actually from it. John

426
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 5: Stewart took issue with the way the media has been

427
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 5: just in the first couple of days, where now this

428
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 5: is the third day of the actual proceedings. He took

429
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 5: issue with the way the media has been treating this trial.

430
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 5: Let's roll this club, can we go?

431
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 3: It's on, it's happening.

432
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 10: History will be made, shaping up to be the trial

433
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 10: of the century, maybe the trial of the century, the

434
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 10: trial of the centric, but just might be the trial

435
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 10: of this century.

436
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 3: The taxman is here, Donald Trump. He will finally be

437
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 3: forced to face the music.

438
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 5: The legal walls closing in around Donald Trump. The legal

439
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 5: walls are starting to close in on Donald Trump.

440
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 11: Yes, this time, mister Bong, it truly is you're doing.

441
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 5: Now.

442
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 11: If you'll excuse me, I'm going to leave this room. Obviously,

443
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 11: when I leave, I'm not going to press this button

444
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 11: right here that opens all the doors and dismantles the

445
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 11: killing machine I've established. Perhaps if we limit the coverage

446
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 11: to the issues at hand and try not to create

447
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 11: an all encompassing spectacle of the most banal of details,

448
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 11: perhaps that would help.

449
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 4: You're looking at live pictures in New York City of

450
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 4: Donald Trump's motorcate.

451
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 10: It's about a twenty minute drive between Trump Tower and

452
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 10: the Court building.

453
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 5: Trump leaving Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue.

454
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 12: They're now making their way across town along fifty seventh Street.

455
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 12: They just cross Park Avenue, making their way up towards

456
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 12: Lexiston Avenue.

457
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 13: He's heading down the FDR to the Manhattan Courthouse on

458
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 13: Chamber Street.

459
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 5: Arriving at this intersection of American history with defiance.

460
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 11: Arriving at the intersection of American history with defiance.

461
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 3: Northeast corner of that intersection is where I'll meet you.

462
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 5: Yeah. Another good lady said, seriously, we're going to follow

463
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 5: this guy to court every effing day. You're trying to

464
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 5: make this oj. It's not a chase. He's commuting now,

465
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 5: he's communting. So the media's first attempt, the very first

466
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 5: attempt on the first day at self control failed. Now

467
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 5: it's worth noting the vast majority of those clips were

468
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 5: from MSNBC. He threw Jack Tapper and for good measure,

469
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 5: but the glee of MSNBC. It actually kind of reminded

470
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 5: me of what Primila Jaiapaul said on the Sunday Shows

471
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 5: this week. I forget what show it was, but basically

472
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 5: she was like, if there was if impeachment had worked,

473
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 5: we wouldn't be here right now. And the reason that

474
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 5: reminds me like you can connect those two dots. It's

475
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 5: just like MSNBC has been going to the bank, like

476
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 5: they've been cashing in on this every day for years now,

477
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 5: and impeachment didn't work. So all of the different attorneys

478
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 5: who Politico revealed their on conference calls, the media attorneys,

479
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 5: did you see this political story? No, these media attorneys,

480
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 5: Barbara McQuaid, Jeffrey Tubin. I don't know that you want

481
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 5: to be an Zoom with Jeffrey Tubin, but they've been

482
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 5: having Zoom salons weekly to talk about Trump's legal drama.

483
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 5: And then they go and talk on George Conway, like

484
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 5: all of these guys, and so it's like they're frothing

485
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 5: at the mouth because it's like, this is what we

486
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 5: have to get them. We have to get them, and

487
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 5: every opportunity to do that is like great television for

488
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 5: them too.

489
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: And it's not as if there's nothing else going on

490
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: in the world.

491
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: That's the impression that you would get from this type

492
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 4: of coveragew I've said a million times that I agree

493
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 4: with Jiapaul in the sense that if they would have

494
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 4: impeached him on the night of January sixth, the early

495
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 4: morning hours of January seventh, write it just down on

496
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 4: some bloodstained paper boat on it right there, kick it

497
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 4: over the Senate and force the Senate to deal with

498
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 4: it in the remaining couple weeks before he left office,

499
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 4: there's a chance that they actually impeach him. Like Lindsay

500
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: Graham was completely done with him, like they believed that

501
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 4: his time was over, that he had he had come

502
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 4: for the system and he had he had missed and

503
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 4: when you do that, you're finished.

504
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: It was that it was when people went to the airport.

505
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 4: Lindsay Graham got mobbed at the airport by people that

506
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 4: were there for January sixth, that they're like, oh, wait, no,

507
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: we're changing our minds.

508
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 5: Well, that's why I think it never would have gone away, because,

509
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 5: like say they had voted to impeach, those are still

510
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 5: their constituents, and so now.

511
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 3: Can he run as an impeached for president?

512
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: Right?

513
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 5: Like this is MSNBC's big problem, CNN's big problem right

514
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 5: now is that they fundamentally do not want to make

515
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 5: the argument to people who still support Trump. They just

516
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 5: want to sort of wish it away and having him

517
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 5: this legal drum.

518
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 4: But what they're left with really is they have to

519
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 4: beat him at the ballot box. And they right right,

520
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: which they did.

521
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: In you know, actually twenty sixteen, three million votes.

522
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not impossible.

523
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: They did it in twenty eighteen, they did it in

524
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, they did it in twenty twenty two. They

525
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: can do it again.

526
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 5: But the way to do it is not by censoring

527
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 5: a Hunter Biden laptop story. It's by making the arts

528
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 5: on the merits for your candidate. And that's where all

529
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 5: of this stuff completely distracts them from that, and they're

530
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: left with but Trump, like they're left with, but you know,

531
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 5: this hush money case, and we can put the snuxt

532
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 5: element upon the screen, because this is what they're talking

533
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: about in the courtroom, that the National Inquirer made up

534
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 5: the story about Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald,

535
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 5: according to David Pecker, who has taken the stand and

536
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 5: again this case, which is over the hush money payment

537
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 5: Stormy Daniels Karen McDougall so reading from this article. David Pecker,

538
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 5: the former publisher of National Inquirer, testified at Donald Trump's

539
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 5: trial Tuesday that the tab would completely manufacture a negative

540
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 5: story in twenty sixteen about the father of Senator Ted

541
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 5: Cruz of Texas, who was then Trump's rival for the

542
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 5: GOP presidential nomination. The paper had published a photo allegedly

543
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 5: showing Cruz's father, Raphael Cruz, with Lee Harvey Oswald, handing

544
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 5: out pro Fidel Castra pamphlets in New Orleans in nineteen

545
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 5: sixty three, not long before Oswald assassinated President John F. Kennedy.

546
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 5: Trump repeatedly referred to the story on the campaign trails

547
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 5: and interviews. Manhattan Prosecutor Joshua Steinlass asked Pecker about the

548
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 5: story's origins during the trial to Sday Manhattan. Pecker said

549
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 5: that then National a Choir editor Dylan Howard and the

550
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 5: Tabloids research department got involved and Pecker indicated that they

551
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 5: faked the photo. That was the foundation for the story.

552
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 5: We mashed the photos in the different picture with Lee

553
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald and mashed it to together. And that's how

554
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 5: the story was prepared created, I would say, Pecker said

555
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 5: on the witness stand, they talked about some other headlines.

556
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 5: We can put the next element up on this point.

557
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 4: On that one, the irony is that Packer and Trump

558
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 4: did not have the courage to go forward with the

559
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: actual potential conspiracy. There there was a son of somebody

560
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: who may have been involved in the JFK's assassination running

561
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 4: against him at the time, and that was Jeb Bush.

562
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 4: But he did not He didn't have the didn't have

563
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 4: the guts to go ahead and say that. Jeb Bush's

564
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 4: father one of the only people who doesn't know didn't

565
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: know where he was on the day.

566
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 5: There are several people.

567
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: QUO was then Ali everyone else and my generation remembers that.

568
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: But I mean, where was I then?

569
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 5: Well he was he goes back to OSS, doesn't.

570
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: He I don't know about all the way to the OSS.

571
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 4: But he ran the CIA. But yeah, it may have

572
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: gone all the way to the oss.

573
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 5: So but let's put this next element up on the

574
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 5: screen again. This is what's happening in the courtroom. Packer

575
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 5: gave some examples of stories Vetch The Inquirer on Trump's opponents, including,

576
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 5: and this is paraphrasing some of them, ben Carson left

577
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 5: sponge and patient's brain ted, cruse, shamed by porn star,

578
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 5: family man Marco Rubio's love child stunner. I think Crystal

579
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 5: teld us that was her favorite of the headline. The

580
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 5: one that was killing me was that Ben Carson left

581
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 5: the sponge and a patient.

582
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: Remember that story.

583
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 5: Actually it's good stuff, but seriously, like this trial. There

584
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 5: was an op ed in the New York Times just

585
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 5: yesterday from someone saying, at first I thought, and I'm

586
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 5: paraphrasing it, I'm looking for the headline right now, But

587
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 5: it was basically, at first I thought that Alvin Bragg

588
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 5: case was an embarrassment, and now I think it's a

589
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 5: historic mistake. I just brought it up like this case again.

590
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: You can have the conversation about should he have classified

591
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 5: this as a campaign expense? But then it's like you

592
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 5: want him to classify a hush money payment as a

593
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 5: campaign expense, that's probably an issue in and of itself.

594
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously step one is don't pay off porn

595
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 5: stars with this weird scheme.

596
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: But it's legal to do that.

597
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 5: It is, It's perfectly legal because the campaign finance law

598
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 5: is that you can't do it if it's only purpose,

599
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 5: or you can only do it if it's like you

600
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 5: can't have multiple you can have multiple purposes. So if

601
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 5: you're saying fundamentally, the only reason was for the campaign,

602
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 5: but Trump is saying Milan, I wanted to protect Milania,

603
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 5: I wanted to do x Y.

604
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: She's trying to have an affair. She was pregnant at

605
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: the time. He's embarrassed about it. Ironically, the question for

606
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: the jury turns on whether or not Trump has any

607
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: shame and as actually trying to keep secrets from his

608
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: wife or is just a complete and total scumbag who

609
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 4: wouldn't even bother. But yeah, he's probably trying to keep

610
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: some secrets. Yes, yeah, he's probably got some shame. But

611
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: when you're in court if he does, if he has

612
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 4: a tiniest bit of shame, and the jury can be like,

613
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: you know what this is, you legitimately can cover up

614
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 4: your your affair this way.

615
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 5: And when you're in court, he can like continue to

616
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 5: deny as he does, that any of this ever happened,

617
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 5: and hypothetically.

618
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: Again he denies it even happened.

619
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, well that he denies that he had the affairs

620
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 5: with the women. So again like he can yeah, I know,

621
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 5: it's funny, but like he can still cling to that,

622
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 5: and there's nothing legally, you know, that's not what's on trial.

623
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 5: What's on trial is the payments. And so he can

624
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 5: still continue to say that I was trying to quash

625
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 5: a false story, which is a perfectly normal thing that

626
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 5: happens in the course of campaigns, Like people do it

627
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 5: all the time. And now, actually there's an interesting conversation

628
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 5: happening about the precedent for other campaigns that this would

629
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 5: set going forward, Like what if he's found guilty on this,

630
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 5: what does it mean for different campaign expenses, you know

631
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 5: down the road as people mull some much more innocuous questions,

632
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 5: not even hush money payment support stars.

633
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many other things you can charge them with.

634
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,959
Speaker 3: I'd say just do that instead.

635
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 5: Come on, So here's Donald Trump talking of talking about

636
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 5: the gag order. Let's roll this clip of them yesterday.

637
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 6: I can't even.

638
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 13: Allow articles to be put in.

639
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 12: As an example, these are articles that were over the

640
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 12: last day and a half. They're very good articles into

641
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 12: the cases of sham and you should be tried.

642
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 13: It shouldn't have been submitted.

643
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 5: And I don't even know if you're allowed to put

644
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 5: them in.

645
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 12: We have a gag order, which to be is totally unconstitutional.

646
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 13: I'm not allowed to talk, but people are allowed.

647
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: To talk about me.

648
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 6: So they can talk about me. They can say whatever

649
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 6: they want.

650
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 11: They can live, but I'm not allowed to say.

651
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 12: And I just have to sit back and look at

652
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 12: why a conflicted judge.

653
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 6: It's me to have a game.

654
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody's in a city anything like this.

655
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 12: I'd love to talk to you people, I'd love to

656
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 12: say everything that's on my mind, but I'm restricted because

657
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 12: I have a gag in it having to do with

658
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 12: the schools and the closings. That's Biden's fall. And by

659
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 12: the way, this trial is all bighten. You know, this

660
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 12: is all Biden. Just in case anybody is any question,

661
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 12: and they're keeping me in the courtroom that's freezing, by.

662
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 8: The way, in a courtroom all day long.

663
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 11: Well, he's out campaigning.

664
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 13: That's probably an advantage because he can't campaign.

665
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: Nobody knows what he's doing. You can't put two sentences together.

666
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: But he's out campaigning.

667
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 11: He's out campaigning, and I'm here at the.

668
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 5: Courtant from sitting him.

669
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 12: Giving sitting up as street as they can all day along,

670
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 12: because you know what, it's a very unfair situation.

671
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: I think that's a reference to him getting caught sleeping, right, Yeah,

672
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: they claim they're.

673
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 5: All kinds of weird pieces of color.

674
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 3: If he wants to sleep through his own trial, you know,

675
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: it seems fine with me.

676
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 5: I mean, it's really a power move power move. But yeah, again,

677
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 5: so like the judge's daughter. By the way, one of

678
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 5: her clients is Adam Schiff. She works at a progressive

679
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 5: consulting company out of Chicago. One of her biggest clients

680
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 5: is Adam Schiff, who fundraises awful lot of the law

681
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 5: fair against Donald Trump. That is again like he's the judge,

682
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 5: that's his daughter, it's not him. But there's some reasons

683
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 5: that Donald Trump is going to want to continue to

684
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,719
Speaker 5: talk about this case. It's obviously salient in the campaign contact.

685
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 5: I don't think it's an easy question because on the

686
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 5: one hand, you know, you should have rule of law,

687
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 5: and that's why you know. It doesn't like Donald Trump

688
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: getting sued over this or going to court over this,

689
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 5: the criminal charges. I mean, it bothers me that it's

690
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 5: not a consistent standard. But people should be obviously held

691
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 5: to the law, regardless of how powerful they are, and

692
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 5: so the same thing with the gag order. But at

693
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 5: the same time, there's this intersection with an obvious campaign

694
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: question as to whether he should be able to make

695
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 5: his case to the American public in the middle of

696
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 5: a presidential election. I think that's a real challenge and

697
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 5: a real question about how this is transpiring.

698
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: Is he trying to get locked up?

699
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 5: You think no, I don't think so. What do you think?

700
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: I don't know.

701
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 4: It's it feels like going out and talking about your

702
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 4: gag order and just constantly attacking the judge after you've

703
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 4: been told you're going to be held in contempt and

704
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 4: warning after warning after warning.

705
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could. I could see an explanation either way.

706
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: That one.

707
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 4: He just is so unused to the idea of consequences

708
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 4: that he feels like there there can be no consequences

709
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 4: for him for anything, or that he sees political value

710
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 4: and historical value in, you know, getting handcuffed and frog

711
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 4: marched out of there. But it's very hard to see

712
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 4: that because he knows that that would be deeply unpleasant.

713
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 3: He doesn't like that.

714
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 4: It's chili in the courtroom. It's old, like he has

715
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: to sit up and can't just not off when he

716
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: feels like it. It's like, it really sucks to have

717
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 4: any of your freedoms taken away from you, and the

718
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 4: criminal justice system is just absolutely brutal, start to finish,

719
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: to go through, it's dehumanizing, it's ugly.

720
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: It rips the soul out of your body. And so

721
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 3: I would.

722
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: Imagine that he's feeling that and doesn't want any more

723
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 4: of it. On the other hand, he's just walking right

724
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 4: into handcuffs here.

725
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: If he doesn't if he doesn't listen to the judge.

726
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 5: Well, if he doesn't win and then part in himself.

727
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 5: And I think that's what's I think that's the big

728
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 5: bet right now, or that there'll be immense pressure on

729
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 5: whoever comes next to pardon him.

730
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 8: Now.

731
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 5: The reason Packer was on the stand is because they're

732
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 5: trying to the prosecution was trying to show this close

733
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 5: relationship between the Trump campaign and the National Inquirer, which

734
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 5: very obviously existed. But if that's where MSNBC's glee is

735
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 5: coming from at this point in twenty twenty, for proving

736
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 5: that Donald Trump was feeding stories to the freaking National Inquirer, amazing.

737
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: I just yeah.

738
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 4: A lot of people don't like Ronan Pharaoh for various reasons,

739
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 4: but his book Catch and Kill highly recommend it. It's

740
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 4: a thriller, like he's got so many interesting documents and

741
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 4: inside sources that he's able to tell it like a novel.

742
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 4: And he'd tell Catch and kill is the phrase that

743
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: the National Inquirer would use to help somebody like Trump

744
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: catch a scandal and then kill it, So like, is

745
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 4: there a love child somewhere? Sure, that's interesting. We'll pay

746
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 4: you thirty thousand dollars for that story, and then boom,

747
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 4: you kill the story. And now that person has signed

748
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 4: an NDA so they can't leak it anywhere else. And

749
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 4: so that that's one of the services that the National

750
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 4: Inquirer was willing to provide for people like Trump.

751
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 5: Let's move over to the Middle East where they're is

752
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 5: escalations and tensions, escalations and violence. Franky Ryan, we can

753
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 5: put the first element up on the screen has bella

754
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 5: tell us what happened.

755
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: So be one up here.

756
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 4: So it has been launching one of its deepest forays

757
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 4: into into Israel and years two drones going deep toward

758
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 4: the Acre base. This was Ochre Base, Israel saying that

759
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 4: there is no no report damage. But you know a

760
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 4: lot of this is just kind of people probing and

761
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 4: testing defenses and and seeing how far they can push

762
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 4: the envelope it is. It has led to significant evacuations,

763
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 4: and the evacuations are fascinating because a lot of people

764
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 4: talk about the the West Bank and the settlements in

765
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 4: the West Bank as a FATA company. It's like, look,

766
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 4: these these people are there. There's there's nothing you can

767
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 4: do about. It doesn't matter that the internettional community says

768
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: these settlements are illegal.

769
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: It is what it is, and it always will be

770
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 3: this way. This war has shown that that's not necessarily true.

771
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 4: Southern Israel and northern Israel have seen massive evacuations of

772
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 4: tens of thousands of people into the interior of Israel.

773
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: They're about you know, when people talk about reorganizing the

774
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 4: West Bank after a peace deal, it's not as if

775
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 4: all seven hundred thousand settlers.

776
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: Who are there would be moved out.

777
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 4: It's more along the lines between say one hundred and

778
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty thousand, because the deals that have

779
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 4: been on the table before would say, look, all right,

780
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 4: you've been here for fifty years, like this community is

781
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 4: going to stay. We're going to get a land swap

782
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: in exchange for that where Palestinians are going to have

783
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: sovereignty and be able to live. But then there are

784
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: certain settlements that are so illegal and so new that

785
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 4: that even Israel say, okay, yes, we will just we

786
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 4: will dismantle those. And it's the far right is often said,

787
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 4: well that's impossible, You're never You're never going to do that.

788
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 3: People live there, they're not moving.

789
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 4: And what we're seeing and what we're seeing just from

790
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 4: this this Hesbela attack, is that no, actually people people

791
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 4: can move. And in Israel there is a dawning realization

792
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 4: that they might not actually kind of resettle the north

793
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: like there because without it, and that's why you have

794
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 4: so many people that are calling for this full on

795
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 4: war on on Lebanon and just you know, raise ba

796
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 4: route to the ground so that they can reclaim because

797
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 4: they have sovereignty over this territory, but they have moved that,

798
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: so many Israelis have moved out of it, that it's

799
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 4: it's sovereignty without any of the benefits of it, because

800
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 4: you can't actually live in it, because it's not safe

801
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: to live in because there's rockets flying constantly, and so

802
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 4: without without some type of peace deal, that that just becomes,

803
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 4: you know, land where nobody can live. And so that's

804
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 4: one of the things I find fascinating about this attack.

805
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 4: Now Israel has responded, we can put up B two

806
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 4: here with more more bombing of Gaza and retaliations against.

807
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 5: Well and in southern Lebanon. Yeah, yeah, right, So they

808
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 5: their airstrikes killed two has Bula fighters, according to the

809
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 5: IDF in Southern Lebanons then confirmed those deaths. Didn't add

810
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 5: any details at the time, but that's Israel has killed

811
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 5: about two hundred and seventy has Bela fighters and fifty

812
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 5: civilians since October, that's according to Reuters, So two more

813
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 5: just yesterday.

814
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 4: To the point you were just making, and the media

815
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 4: has described the US media has described the war in

816
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 4: gazas reaching a kind of low intense quote low intensity phase.

817
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: But the images you see coming out of the reports

818
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 4: that you hear continue to show significant bombing campaign relative.

819
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 5: To October fifteenth. Of course it's going to look like right.

820
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 3: But also Gaza itself is much diminished relative to October fifteenth.

821
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 4: You know, they have pushed everybody into one area and

822
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 4: now bombing that area, and in the casually account keeps soaring.

823
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 4: That gets us to our next point, which you know,

824
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 4: as the nation is and in the globe in some ways,

825
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 4: like the Columbia University is becoming like international news as

826
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: everybody's focused on these encampments that are that are spreading

827
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: throughout universities. We're finding Palestinian civil forces are finding increasingly

828
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 4: finding mass graves as they're returning to hospitals.

829
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: Some of these mass graves appear to have.

830
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: Been originally made by Palestinian medical personnel. Others appear to

831
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 4: have been made by the IDF. And this also goes

832
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 4: to the question of you know, how significant is is

833
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 4: the undercount that that Hamas is putting out. Because Ralph

834
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 4: Nader was actually making an interesting point recently. He's he's

835
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: been you know, his background is actually in casualties and

836
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 4: fatalities and and and the number of people dying as

837
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 4: a result of you know, back in the seventies is

838
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 4: a GM. Now he's studying it as a result of

839
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 4: this war. His argument is that the numbers are much

840
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: much higher, uh than than people than than than people

841
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: are saying they are, and that you shouldn't necessarily trust

842
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: Hamas figures, not because they're overcounting it, because they're they

843
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: have an incentive to undercount it, because it is Hamas's

844
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: job to at the in the end to protect the

845
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 4: civilian population, even though you know, there's there's little they

846
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 4: can do if uh, you know, the IDEF drops a

847
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 4: two thousand pound bomb on a refugee camp, it's that's

848
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 4: going to kill hundreds of people at a minimum. But

849
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 4: in general, and and and their numbers are you know,

850
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 4: oddly trusted like by the UN, by the US, by

851
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 4: by Israel. But what he's saying is it might actually

852
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: be an undercount and the identification of these mass graves

853
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 4: suggest that there may be something to that.

854
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 5: There's truly so much we don't know yet. And according

855
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 5: to this report in The Guardian, a total of three

856
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 5: hundred and ten bodies have been found in the last week,

857
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 5: including thirty five just in the past day, according to

858
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 5: Palestinian officials. Now, these are obviously at two of Gaza's

859
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 5: largest hospitals, that's where the mass graves were found. And

860
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 5: so Israel, you know, rightfully does say that there's Hamas

861
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 5: infrastructure in hospitals. Ryan, We've talked about this before, even

862
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 5: granted that where Hamas would be able to let's say,

863
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 5: hypothetically like separate itself from the civilian population, which obviously

864
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 5: I think was the much more humane well violence in

865
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 5: general not humane, but you know, you would be able

866
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 5: to separate from the civilian popular. It's incredibly difficult in

867
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 5: a dense, densely packed area like Ganza, in a tiny

868
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 5: area like Gaza. So just the kind of conversation on

869
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 5: both sides of that, Israel is going to say that

870
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 5: this was you know, first of all, they say the

871
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 5: claim that the IDF buried Pastadian bodies is baseless and unfounded.

872
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 5: They said, after examining the bodies, the IDEF returned them

873
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 5: to where they had been previously buried. So that's the

874
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 5: claim from the IDF. Obviously, there's also the issue of

875
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 5: the hospitals themselves, where we've had conversations in the past

876
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 5: several months about raised on hospitals, and you know, the

877
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 5: legitimacy of that as anti terrorism operations versus operations that

878
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 5: are going to disproportionately end up targeting vulnerable civilians. Obviously,

879
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 5: that's we've debated it for a couple of months now.

880
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 4: For my Intercept podcast that'll be out on Friday, I

881
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 4: just interviewed a doctor from Dallas who just recently came

882
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: back from Gaza.

883
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 3: He was working at the Pan Hospital.

884
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 4: The stories he told from there so disturbing because some

885
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 4: of the doctors that he worked with had come from

886
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 4: Al Shifa Hospital because after that was raided, and he

887
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 4: had he confirmed something that that my college Jeremy Scahill,

888
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 4: had heard from other medical personnel had worked in Gaza,

889
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 4: which is that the that doctors when the IDF is approaching,

890
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 4: have started to take off their scrubs, like and nurses

891
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 4: as well. That there is now a belief among medical

892
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 4: personnel that they are more at risk by appearing to

893
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 4: be medical personnel than if they can blend in with

894
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 4: the civilian population, which, if you sit with and think

895
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 4: about what that, what that says is just profoundly, deeply disturbing.

896
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: And you know, he said that the entire time that

897
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 4: he was there, he never saw anybody that looked remotely

898
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: like a Humas fighter. At the same time, he said

899
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 4: that the European hospital where he was working, everyone there

900
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 4: assumes that they are next that the raid is coming,

901
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 4: but not that there's some pretext that as if like

902
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 4: there's Hamas guys everywhere, but just that it's coming. And

903
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 4: they were hoping that these international doctors would stay as

904
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: long as they possibly could because they thought that that

905
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 4: was the one thing that was standing between them and

906
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 4: the entire thing just getting completely flattened, people rounded up

907
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 4: and killed. The way that people are seeing it on

908
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 4: the ground compared to the way that people are understanding it, hears,

909
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 4: couldn't be couldn't be much different. By the way, David Saderfield,

910
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 4: we could talk about this, who has to be the

911
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 4: biggest failure of any kind of administration official almost in history.

912
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: So David's David Saderfield is Biden's guy who's in charge

913
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 4: of humanitarian relief in Gaza, and everybody there is dying.

914
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 4: So just on a objective level, just complete and total failure.

915
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 4: He came to the State Department briefing yesterday rather than

916
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 4: offering contrition like this is the vibe that he decides

917
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: is the appropriate thing to give off to the public.

918
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 4: Let's roll David Saderfield from yesterday's State Department.

919
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 14: Briefing three weeks later. Can you say you're satisfied with

920
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 14: the steps that Israel has taken so far? Has the

921
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 14: deconfliction mechanism that you talked about you said there's progress?

922
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 14: Is that in place now and is working? And the

923
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 14: final thing is about the peer we're being told us

924
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 14: will rely on Israel for security. Can you elaborate on that?

925
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 14: Is it going to be security of US troops provided

926
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 14: by Israel? Who will distribute the aid inside GUSA?

927
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 13: Thank you, I'll take your last part in turn to

928
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 13: Sonali for that. But I am not going to give

929
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 13: you now spare the rest of your colleagues. I'm not

930
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 13: going to give you a grade. Did they get an

931
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 13: A plus and AARB. We are in the constant process

932
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 13: of monitoring, assessing, facilitating, supporting progress towards the goals. The

933
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 13: President said, this is not a gotcha test At two

934
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 13: pm on the seventh of May, well is reel past

935
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 13: or not. This is a set of requirements to help

936
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 13: the people of Gaza and the humanitarian workers whose role

937
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 13: is vital in facilitating assistance. Progress is being made, but

938
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 13: I am not going to stand here and give you

939
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 13: a grade on that. More needs to be done.

940
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 5: They're so bad at that.

941
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're so bad at that was That was Reuter's reporter,

942
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 4: whom Ira Pamock by the way.

943
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, not only is he bad.

944
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 4: At his job of getting humanitarian relief into Gaza, but

945
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 4: not not good at even making us feel like he's trying.

946
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 5: He seemed to be almost like trying to answer the question.

947
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 5: It's like a book report when you're in third grade.

948
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 5: You know, you can see this a lot with flax,

949
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 5: like they just kind of and he's not even a

950
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 5: flack's he was flacking, right, he's in the rooms point

951
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 5: of time. Yeah, but he he just like goes may

952
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 5: second at this exact point of time. I'm not going

953
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 5: to give Israel grade like it's a test. It's like

954
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,959
Speaker 5: you're just you're just talking to talk at those points

955
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 5: so that you don't answer the question. You're talking around

956
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 5: the question.

957
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what he's doing up there, because

958
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 4: there's nothing he can say except you know, I resign

959
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 4: and I apologize and I will turn myself into the Hague.

960
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 4: But other than that, like, what are you even doing you?

961
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 5: I actually think though, and that's what's again, because we

962
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 5: disagree on some of this stuff, but I actually think

963
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 5: you can make this argument in a way that you know,

964
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 5: whether or not the public is in the right place

965
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 5: is another question, but in a way that appeals to

966
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 5: the PubL Like that is not a way that appeals

967
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 5: to the public whatsoever, because basically nobody in the United States,

968
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 5: I mean, the public polling is overwhelming that people are

969
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 5: upset about the humanitarian issues in Gaza, and so to

970
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 5: just kind of brush it aside like that and say,

971
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 5: I'm not going to give them a grade. What are

972
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 5: you talking about. We're working on it. Don't worry. It's

973
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 5: just there's you can actually do a better job. There

974
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 5: is a better way, even if it's like for the

975
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 5: sake of propaganda, you can do a better job than that.

976
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 5: And that's it's like just not only is a you know, problematic,

977
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 5: it's incompetent. Like the combination of those two things is

978
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 5: just the Biden administration defined right now.

979
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: The FTC yesterday moved to ban non compete agreements. This

980
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 4: is Lena Khan's kind of latest victory over corporate power.

981
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 4: It was just it was described by some as the

982
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 4: perhaps the best thing that the Biden ministry has ever done,

983
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 4: because what it can do is unleash significant wage growth

984
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 4: and significant kind of economic opportunity for people up and

985
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 4: down the ladder. Let's let's actually roll Lena Khan first.

986
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 4: This was an interview posted yesterday with the news organization

987
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 4: More Perfect Union to coinciding with the with the final vote.

988
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 4: Here's here's a little clip from that interview. Here's FTC

989
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 4: chairwoman Lena Khan.

990
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: A lot of the comments that we got were from

991
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: workers that actually wanted to go start their own competing business.

992
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: We heard from people in the ausephalt business that saw

993
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: an opportunity in the market wanted to go start a

994
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: rival firm, but weren't able to do so because they

995
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: were locked in with a noncompete.

996
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 8: And there's actually correct me if I'm wrong, there's attorneys

997
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 8: and bankers who make a decent income who are also

998
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 8: affected by it too.

999
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 5: Could be agreements, that's right.

1000
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: I mean, we got comments from across the income level,

1001
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: people making near minimum wage, but also people making tens

1002
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars or even hundreds of thousands of dollars,

1003
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: sharing stories about how non competes had been devastating.

1004
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 5: For their lives.

1005
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: We heard from doctors in rural America who shared how

1006
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: non competes really limit their ability to continue providing care

1007
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: for their patients if they ever look to change employers.

1008
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: So this is having real world effects harming Americans and

1009
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: harming their communities.

1010
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 8: As you were talking, I was thinking of corporate m

1011
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 8: and A attorneys and big bankers at firms who work

1012
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 8: on mergers, and I would just want to make a

1013
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 8: point to them that Lina CON's got your backs. More

1014
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 8: freedom of movement as a result of this noncompete ban.

1015
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 4: And so the joke there that they're making at the

1016
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 4: very end is at the expense of these mergers and

1017
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 4: acquisitions attorneys, because their whole job is to merge, is

1018
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 4: to consolidate corporate power, to bring corporations together and lead

1019
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 4: to cons em to seats consumers, right, yeah, they're bringing

1020
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 4: benefits for con Yeah, And so their whole their whole

1021
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 4: job is just to sit in the middle of these

1022
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 4: mergers and make money. And actually they go out and

1023
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 4: pitch them constantly like it's it's one of those situations

1024
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 4: where the economy gets sort of a kink in it,

1025
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 4: and then in the kink develop a bunch of parasites

1026
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 4: who make a living off of it, like lobbyists for instance.

1027
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 3: And we can talk about this in a future program.

1028
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 4: Bobbies are constantly going around creating problems that they then

1029
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 4: pitch themselves able to solve. It's just like it's this

1030
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 4: extra layer of problem that is deeper than just the

1031
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 4: fundamental layer of corruption. And so, but nobody hates Lena

1032
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 4: Khn other than the Wall Street Journal, more than kind

1033
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 4: of mergers and acquisitions attorneys, because it's she's making it

1034
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 4: harder for corporations to consolidate. And so that's Faz Shakir,

1035
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 4: that's Bernie Sanders campaign manager saying, look, now you can

1036
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 4: go find another job, go start a new firm, thanks

1037
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 4: thanks to Lena Khan. Because non competes up and down

1038
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 4: ladder really really make it difficult for economic innovation, I believe.

1039
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 4: I think Crystal and Sacer had one that they had

1040
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: to fight to get out of, you know, when they

1041
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: went from rising over over to here. Because corporations are

1042
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 4: always trying to make sure that they control absolutely everything yeah,

1043
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 4: and you know, if they had their way, you wouldn't

1044
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 4: have been able to have independent competing businesses. Yeah, like

1045
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 4: the one we're sitting in right now.

1046
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, the FTC is estimating that it's like one in

1047
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 5: five workers currently bound by non compete clauses. Now in

1048
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 5: some industries, that's where the FTC is saying it's stifling

1049
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 5: because you don't have the freedom to kind of move

1050
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 5: and competitively because that industry is so dominated where it

1051
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 5: would be one thing moving from industry to industry. One

1052
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 5: industry where maybe there's a non compete or it's you

1053
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 5: know common to have a noncompete, another industry where basically

1054
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 5: nobody has non compete, something like that. Matt Stoler has

1055
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 5: written that non competes so have just exploded. He said

1056
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 5: it was because of the ease of like printing contracts out,

1057
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 5: which is probably true that you know, it's just so

1058
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 5: easy now to like throw it on compezza at people.

1059
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 5: It's so cheap to throw non competzz at people, and

1060
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 5: you know why not. But in certain industries it does

1061
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 5: clearly stifle competition, there's no question about it. But where

1062
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 5: there are questions being raised, so the Chamber of Commerce

1063
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 5: has said they're immediately going to sue. They were beat

1064
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 5: to the punch, though, is put C three up on

1065
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 5: the screen by this is so, this is the argument

1066
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 5: from the FTC. Republican Commissioner too voted against on the

1067
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 5: FTC and he said he was sympathetic to the rule

1068
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 5: banning non competes, but beginning with policy puts the cart

1069
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 5: before the horse. And Matt said exactly what I thought,

1070
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 5: opposition on procedural grounds, and that was the lawsuit that

1071
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 5: was filed in Texas basically immediately by Eugene Scalia, the

1072
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 5: son of Antonin Scalia, who's making a very broad argument,

1073
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 5: and Stoler already a newsletter, you know, arguing against it,

1074
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 5: rebutting the points in the suit that was filed, but

1075
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 5: basically big it's great, but basically saying that the FTC

1076
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 5: itself is unconstitutional. The FTC's powers are overly broad. That's

1077
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 5: an argument that I'm kind of sympathetic to. But a

1078
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 5: Matt also kind of walks through how the FTC came

1079
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 5: to be because Congress was having an impossible time regulating

1080
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 5: such rapidly changing industries in the twentieth century. Technology and

1081
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 5: the way markets were moving just made it very hard,

1082
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 5: and that's where the FTC came in. But where Republicans

1083
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 5: are going to challenge this. You even see the FTC

1084
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 5: Republican FTC commissioner saying there, I'm sympathetic to this noncompete.

1085
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 5: The proliferation of them is genuinely problematic. That's the sort

1086
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 5: of predicate for what he said. But the FTC itself

1087
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 5: has overbrought authority, and so we're challenging it on those grounds.

1088
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 5: I don't think that will be successful, but I don't know.

1089
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 6: Ryan.

1090
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 3: And the ruling.

1091
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 4: The new rule leaves in place non competes for high

1092
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 4: level executives that are already in place, but but bars

1093
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 4: but bars future ones, but it invalidates ones for places like,

1094
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 4: for instance, Jimmy John's. My colleague Dave Jamison almost a

1095
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 4: decade ago had kind of a breakthrough story that really

1096
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 4: put this issue on the map when when he wrote

1097
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 4: about the fact that Jimmy John's The Sandwich Place was

1098
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 4: making it's sandwich makers signed non competes in other words,

1099
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 4: and attempting to enforce them, and so in other words,

1100
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 4: there you're making nine dollars an hour, you know, at

1101
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 4: Jimmy John's making subs and then you see that there's

1102
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 4: another job at Subway that's they're now offering eleven dollars

1103
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 4: an hour. Their short staff they need help. They would

1104
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 4: tell you, no, you cannot take that job.

1105
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 5: How dare you take that proprietary now?

1106
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it propriet ther knowledge of the way that you

1107
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 4: I mean, sandwiches, they are freaky fast, It is true.

1108
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 5: They really are.

1109
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 3: Actually, how did you how did you Ainty make this thing?

1110
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 4: So, however, the idea that you're going to prevent somebody

1111
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 4: from taking a better paying job at a different sandwich

1112
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 4: shop is just so anathema to the basic idea of

1113
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 4: freedom and the and the free market and all of

1114
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 4: the things that we're told are are real about the market,

1115
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 4: like competition, supply and demand. Everybody has taught these basic things,

1116
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 4: and it would be as if consumers were told no,

1117
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 4: you're you're you're only allowed to shop at the store.

1118
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 3: Now.

1119
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 4: That is what the monopolies try to do structurally. But

1120
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 4: what these businesses are trying to do is legally say

1121
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 4: there are other businesses, you're just not allowed to work

1122
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 4: for any of them.

1123
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 5: Matt also pointed out that Lena Khan made the argument

1124
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 5: that non competes have forced people to stay at employers

1125
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 5: that sought to violate their religious liberty and said, these

1126
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 5: noncompetes are robbing people of book core constitutional liberties. And

1127
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 5: Matt said, who's the conservative here? Yeah, but yeah, I

1128
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 5: mean there's legitimately a point to the way competition has

1129
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 5: been hampered to the Obviously you have even Republican FTC

1130
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 5: commissioners saying that's problematic. Now, Congress did legitimately delegate this

1131
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 5: power to the ft.

1132
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: They point the commissioners, and they fund the agency.

1133
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 5: And so we get into sort of CFPB territory too,

1134
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 5: about if this is something that Congress delegated, it's power

1135
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 5: that Congress delegated. Can you make this case on strong

1136
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 5: constitutional grounds? That's what's going to be tested.

1137
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's a kind of micro version in some

1138
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 4: ways of what I was talking about recently with the

1139
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 4: way that TikTok was able to come in and dominate

1140
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 4: the social media space was because we allowed our big

1141
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 4: tech overlords to just basically stay in place on top

1142
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 4: of their piles of cash, and anytime a new tech

1143
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 4: company was coming along with some type of innovation that

1144
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 4: threatened their dominance in the market, they would do a

1145
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 4: catch and kill. They would just buy it and bring

1146
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 4: their engineers in and smother the thing, or if it

1147
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 4: was big enough, they'd kind of, you know, make it

1148
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 4: part of their monopoly operation. And that stifled innovation, and

1149
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 4: TikTok came from outside was like, oh, you guys haven't

1150
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 4: developed any new social media in ten years, but we've

1151
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 4: got a new algorithm that we think people.

1152
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 3: Are going to like.

1153
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 4: And now our response again as well, we're gonna we're

1154
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 4: going to ban that and we're going to make you

1155
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 4: sell it to an American. So the point would be,

1156
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 4: if you are a company like Jimmy John's, that is,

1157
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 4: you know, making freaking fast sandwiches, if you want to

1158
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 4: if you want to maintain your hold in the marketplace,

1159
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 4: you just have to continue to make freaky fast good sandwiches.

1160
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 4: Like you cannot use this law fair to try to

1161
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 4: build walls around your employees and to try to otherwise

1162
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 4: prevent competition from rising up.

1163
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 3: What you have to do is you have to outcompete.

1164
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: And I hate that these people are making me sound

1165
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 3: like some free market ideas.

1166
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 5: I know. I was going to say you were earlier

1167
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 5: in the show when you were like thank you for,

1168
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 5: you know, subscribing and making this a profitable enterprise. And

1169
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 5: here we go with the competition and the free market.

1170
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a there is a place you know

1171
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 4: where you know, where you know where they actually have

1172
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 4: pretty effective markets, where they allow businesses to rise and

1173
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 4: fail ruthlessly and quickly and in a way that produces

1174
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 4: actual economic value.

1175
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 3: Heaven, China, China. That's what people like that.

1176
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 4: And that's what people misunderstand about the kind of Chinese

1177
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 4: miracle over the last twenty years of economic growth.

1178
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 3: Is that they actually allow businesses to fail.

1179
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 4: Our system is so corrupt that failing businesses are able

1180
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 4: to just build up, you know, different different mechanisms of

1181
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 4: maintaining subsidies.

1182
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 5: I don't know if I agree with that, but regardless,

1183
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 5: we'll put a pin in it and you can transport

1184
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 5: us to Ecuador.

1185
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,439
Speaker 4: We recently covered the turmoil engulfing Ecuador after the US

1186
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 4: ambassador there colluded with the nation's attorney general in what

1187
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 4: amounted to blatant foreign election interference, pushing the fake idea

1188
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 4: that the left wing party of Rafael Correa was somehow

1189
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 4: responsible for the assassination of a rival presidential candidate. That

1190
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 4: smear campaign did the trick, and the heir to a

1191
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 4: banana fortune, Daniel Naboa, was elected with US support. Now,

1192
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 4: the fact that the US is still helping elect banana

1193
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 4: magnates one hundred and twenty years after we coined the

1194
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 4: term banana republic suggests an extraordinary lack of imagination when

1195
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 4: it comes to our imperial managers. But at least now

1196
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 4: the bananas double as cover for cocaine exports to Europe. Now,

1197
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 4: the goal of installing a right wing go government in

1198
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 4: the South or Central American country, of course, is to

1199
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 4: make way for American corporations to profit. The new mechanism

1200
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 4: we have to do that is called isds, or investor

1201
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 4: state dispute settlement. Those are global courts that allow multinational

1202
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 4: corporations to sue small countries and overturn their democratically enacted

1203
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 4: labor or environmental protections, which the corporations claim inhibit their

1204
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 4: natural right to profit. Ecuador's Neboa, in taking office, moved

1205
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 4: immediately to bring those courts back after the government of

1206
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 4: Korea had gotten rid of them. Last week, in a

1207
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 4: Senate hearing, there was a surprisingly honest conversation about those

1208
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 4: courts and our role in pushing them between Rhode Island

1209
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 4: Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and US Trade Representative Catherine Tye

1210
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:50,439
Speaker 4: take a listen.

1211
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 10: But I really think that there's something very evil about

1212
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 10: the entire ISDS mechanism, and it's perhaps best embodied by

1213
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 10: the attack through the ISDS mechanism of the tobacco industry

1214
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 10: on the little country of Togo. Togo had the nerve

1215
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 10: to try to control the packaging of cigarettes with warnings

1216
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 10: about tobacco's known health effects, and they were sued by

1217
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 10: the world tobacco industry, which has enormous resources at its disposal.

1218
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 10: Togo is a country of about eight million people. It

1219
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 10: has less than five thousand miles of roads. Its annual

1220
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 10: budget is about one point two billion. It is in

1221
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 10: no position to take on a international industry like that

1222
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 10: that can use it to first of all bully Togo

1223
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 10: into submission, and then take that and leverage against other countries.

1224
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 10: In fact, the tobacco industry even ultimately went up against

1225
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 10: Australia and got them alves tangled up in the complexity

1226
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 10: of their effort.

1227
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 3: But that shows how evil this is.

1228
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 10: So the quicker we can get rid of that as

1229
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 10: a vehicle for putting private interest over public interest and

1230
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 10: putting some that wait over virtue, the better off we

1231
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 10: will be. And i'd ask for your thoughts on how

1232
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 10: we can remove ISDS from those existing agreements and treaties.

1233
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 4: Now, you don't hear American policy described as evil in

1234
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 4: the Senate very often, even though that label could often

1235
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 4: apply now. Over the weekend, Neboa's effort to bring those

1236
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 4: courts back to Ecuador was required to go before Ecuadorian voters,

1237
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 4: and even though the ballot measure was written in the

1238
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 4: most confusing way possible, more than sixty percent of Ecuadorians

1239
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 4: said no.

1240
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 8: Now.

1241
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 4: A few weeks ago, we also reported on how the

1242
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 4: left leaning government in Honduras is bucking the World Bank's

1243
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 4: ISDS court in its fight with crypto investors who have

1244
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 4: seized actual territory inside the country and are claiming they

1245
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 4: have actual sovereignty there. Both fights, the one in Ecuador

1246
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 4: and the one in Honduras, were subjects of protests that

1247
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 4: last week's annual World Bank IMF meetings held here in Washington.

1248
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 4: This comes as more than three hundred economics professors urged

1249
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 4: the White House to strip these courts out of trade deals.

1250
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 3: Now Here's how Tie responded to Shelton white House.

1251
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 10: Very very interested in the views of members of Congress,

1252
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 10: especially those who sit on their Judiciary Committee and our lawyers.

1253
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 5: Indeed, we.

1254
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 10: The US was responsible for pushing a lot of this

1255
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 10: I SDS nonsense in of those treaties in the first place.

1256
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 3: Correct. I think that's absolutely correct.

1257
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, well god speed, stay in touch with us

1258
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 10: on the conclusions that you draw.

1259
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 4: So what's really remarkable, Emily about that that exchange is,

1260
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 4: first of all, white House is you know, being pretty

1261
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 4: clear and how he's feeling about these But that's that's

1262
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 4: one senator. Now, they can they can make a video,

1263
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 4: you know, they can make an appearance at the Juiciary Committee,

1264
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 4: but they can't.

1265
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 3: Do a lot more than that.

1266
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 4: To have Catherine Tie basically agreeing with him is kind

1267
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 4: of a seed change when it comes to you know,

1268
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 4: U S trade policy. Tie is what is like Lena

1269
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 4: Khan also also a former Hill staffer. Like Lena Khan,

1270
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 4: one of the this this code array of seriously populist

1271
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 4: aides who have wound up in the Biden administration through

1272
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 4: kind of a real, you know, organized effort to make

1273
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 4: sure that the populist wing of the party has quote.

1274
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 3: Unquote representation there.

1275
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,439
Speaker 4: But what they're doing is pushing forward, you know, real

1276
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 4: real policy change in an in an impressive direction and

1277
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 4: giving support then to say, the Ecuadorian people who are

1278
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 4: pushing back against noboah, the Honduran government that is pushing

1279
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 4: back against against the World Bank. But it creates this

1280
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 4: bizarre split screen where you have the Biden administration foisting

1281
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 4: Neboa on the Ecuadorian public, you know, boosting him to

1282
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 4: the presidency, uh, the ambassador supporting him all the way, UH,

1283
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 4: supporting his push for to bring back these corporate courts

1284
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 4: into Ecuador, while other elements of the Biden administration who

1285
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 4: are responsible for trade are against that. So it it

1286
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 4: creates this really schizophrenic situation. But at least, I guess

1287
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 4: inside the imperial core there's some opposition to what the

1288
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 4: rest of the empire's doing.

1289
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 5: Although Niboa correct me if I'm wrong, is fairly like

1290
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 5: in terms of polling, his polls pretty well with the

1291
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 5: Ecuadorian public.

1292
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 3: He did well.

1293
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 5: There's a lot of like's. There's maybe a parallels like

1294
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 5: Bukele and that crime crackdowns, nationalism.

1295
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 4: The public supported. So at the same time that this

1296
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 4: that this measure was up on the corporate courts. He

1297
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 4: also had some referenda up about cracking down on the

1298
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 4: mafia and drug cartels, right, and that's the WHI which

1299
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 4: passed and they and they support him. There there are

1300
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 4: huge questions about the role of that banana industry that

1301
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 4: we talked about at the top, his role in it

1302
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 4: and relationship to other narco traffickers. So some of this

1303
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 4: is seen by the Ecuadoran public is kind of intramural

1304
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,839
Speaker 4: warfare among rival kind of narco clans.

1305
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this gets to that's an important point, and

1306
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 5: there's a You were making this point about how the

1307
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 5: goal of installing a right when government in the South

1308
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 5: or Central American country is to make way for American

1309
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 5: corporations to profit and for American control to come in,

1310
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 5: whether it's trafficking, whatever it's whatever's going on.

1311
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 3: If it's uh, you know, Nicaragua, we want it to

1312
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 3: be US, not China, that kind of thing.

1313
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 5: US not China. But forever it was US not Russia.

1314
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:52,600
Speaker 5: And I think that's what's interesting about the point you

1315
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 5: were making with Lena Khan Taie is that people are

1316
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 5: now there's a generation of young leftists and increasingly people

1317
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 5: on the right who saw what happened with the Cold

1318
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 5: War see the same playbook being regurgitated or being trotted

1319
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 5: out again in these different countries. Now China is obviously

1320
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 5: part of it, still Russia though, in Africa and in

1321
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 5: other places, and they're like, we know exactly what's happening.

1322
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 5: You cannot continue to use the specter of communist nuclear annihilation.

1323
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 5: The world has changed. We don't live in the you know,

1324
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 5: sixties anymore. And I think that's a really healthy reaction

1325
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 5: to some of this and the increasing like I hope

1326
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 5: that young leftists continue to be as sort of like

1327
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 5: anti this global you know it used to be just

1328
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 5: like World Economic Forum getting protested by young leftists. Now

1329
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 5: you only hear talked about on the right. Essentially, I

1330
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 5: think that's an important like pillar of you know, being

1331
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 5: in favor of workers, not letting them be dicked by

1332
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 5: these totally disconnected international bodies that are run by oligarchs.

1333
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 4: All right, Well, the only thing that anybody seems to

1334
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 4: care about in the world is the protest set up

1335
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 4: at Columbia University. And so we're going to be joined

1336
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 4: after this by a lead organizer of those protests. Stick

1337
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 4: around to hear her perspective. All right, we are joined

1338
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 4: now from the Columbia Encampment by first year a law

1339
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 4: student and Columbia undergrad graduate Safia Southeast.

1340
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 3: Safia, thank you so much for joining us.

1341
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 6: It's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

1342
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got it.

1343
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 4: So when I talked to you a couple of days

1344
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 4: ago or whenever that was about coming on to join

1345
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 4: the show, you were out picking up sat or supplies.

1346
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 4: Can you tell us a little bit about how Sata

1347
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:52,839
Speaker 4: went there at the encampment.

1348
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was honestly one of the most inspiring experiences

1349
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 7: I've had, and not like anything else. We had dozens

1350
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 7: and dozens of students gathered around on the floor.

1351
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 6: It was my first.

1352
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 7: Outdoor stater and it was really beautiful, mostly led by

1353
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 7: Jewish Voice or Peace here on campus. We had a

1354
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 7: specialized hagadah talking about the concepts of liberation and it

1355
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 7: was just a very wonderful multicultural moment.

1356
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 6: Nearly everybody on campus or everybody at the camp was

1357
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 6: there and shared in the moment. So very grateful to

1358
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 6: have that.

1359
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 5: And can you tell us us a little bit about

1360
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 5: the logistics of the encampment. How many people are there

1361
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 5: right now? You guys are overnight intense, How are you

1362
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 5: getting food? What's your life like? Basically we get a

1363
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 5: good I think visual love it, which we appreciate a lot.

1364
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 5: But what's your life like right now in the encampment?

1365
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1366
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 7: So, after the first encampment was kind of dismembered, on Wednesday,

1367
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 7: a bunch of students jumped over to the West Found

1368
01:12:58,280 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 7: of Columbia and we've been here since.

1369
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 6: So students are here overnight.

1370
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 7: At the very beginning, we weren't allowed to have tents,

1371
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 7: so we were sleeping on the ground on tarps in

1372
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 7: the rain, which was not very fun. We now have tents,

1373
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 7: which is wonderful. We have probably about fifty students here

1374
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 7: right now. There was supposed to be a police rate

1375
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 7: at eight a m. This morning, so we have fewer

1376
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:22,560
Speaker 7: students than we usually do.

1377
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 6: Usually there's about two hundred, a lot of them sleeping

1378
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 6: over here.

1379
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 7: We have food from donations and so it's been a

1380
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 7: really wonderful experience to watch people come in.

1381
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 6: There's a system of runners who.

1382
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 7: Come and collect food from all over and we have

1383
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 7: a food table abundance and it's yeah, we have water

1384
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 7: supplies a lot of students taking care of us. It's

1385
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 7: a very community driven place where everybody just kind of.

1386
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,759
Speaker 6: Chips in whatever they can in terms of like labor

1387
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 6: and support.

1388
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 4: And so President Biden recently called the protests that you're

1389
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,799
Speaker 4: a part of flatly anti submit. The Secretary of Education

1390
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 4: said that he's launching a title, was it nine?

1391
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 3: What's the title?

1392
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:10,440
Speaker 4: Whatever title they're using to investigate Columbia basically for anti Semitism.

1393
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 4: What was your reaction, What was your reaction in the

1394
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 4: camp to that national attention and to that allegation.

1395
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, I am really disappointed and glorified at that idea.

1396
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm a Jewish student here.

1397
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 7: We have a huge number of Jewish students who we

1398
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 7: have a Shabbat service and a hof Dollar service and

1399
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 7: obviously a huge stay. It's part of our strict Columbia

1400
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 7: like a community guidelines here in the encampment that we

1401
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 7: accept everybody if they're here and in support of the cause.

1402
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 7: There has been anti Semitic incidents that have happened outside

1403
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 7: of the campus gates, usually by individuals or groups that

1404
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,839
Speaker 7: are not aligned with the people who have organized the encampment,

1405
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 7: or at least the message is not aligned. And so

1406
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 7: while I do understand why some Jewish students on campus

1407
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 7: feel threatened in some capacity, the bumping that in with

1408
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 7: the encampment I find to be really disheartening, given the

1409
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 7: fact that this is such a accepting place that has

1410
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 7: welcomed me and everybody else. And honestly, I find that

1411
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 7: the protests and the anti Semitic comments and the focus

1412
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 7: on that has been a complete distraction from why we

1413
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 7: are here and the actual message of divestment and transparency

1414
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 7: and support for Palestinian people that this can't stands for.

1415
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 6: Especially because it is such a.

1416
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 7: Welcoming environment that I am very grateful to be a

1417
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 7: part of.

1418
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think it's important that you acknowledged

1419
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,839
Speaker 5: some of the stuff that's been, as you say, off message,

1420
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 5: because you know, there was that all Cassan's next Target

1421
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 5: sign that was horrific, but you know, free speeches. There

1422
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 5: was also the one that said let it be known

1423
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 5: that was the flood that put the global into FODO

1424
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 5: back on the table again a speaker, So that's not

1425
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 5: is you know, it's important though to support free speech

1426
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 5: when it's really hard, and I guess I would just

1427
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 5: say you know, probably some of your fellow Jewish students

1428
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 5: on campus or on the other side of this might say,

1429
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 5: you know, are you guys cracking down hard enough on

1430
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 5: those people who are off message? What would you say

1431
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 5: to that? What would you say to them if they

1432
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 5: were in front of you and said, you know, you

1433
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 5: should be cracking down harder on the people who are

1434
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 5: veering off message. I imagine you've done some of that.

1435
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, I will say that it's hard to crack down

1436
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 7: on people when they are individuals and physically outside the

1437
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:42,439
Speaker 7: bounds of the school. So we are all in this

1438
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 7: inner space, and a lot of the idea is like

1439
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:47,799
Speaker 7: taking up this space on campus, and so the idea

1440
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 7: of like going outside and policing individual people for messages

1441
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 7: is firstly impossible. Second of all, Duad the Divestment Group,

1442
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 7: along with the other organizing groups have actively tried to

1443
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 7: address and con and and go against the idea of

1444
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 7: anti Semitism, asking groups outside to stop using this kind

1445
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 7: of rhetoric. The girl with the all access sign was

1446
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 7: not a Columbia student. We have no idea how she

1447
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 7: got here. I have not known of a single incident

1448
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 7: of a Columbia student or somebody in the encampment using

1449
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 7: such language.

1450
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 6: And so while there has been an active effort to kind.

1451
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 7: Of wash this kind of rhetoric, it's it's very very

1452
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 7: difficult somebody's coming and recording, and so it happens quite

1453
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 7: often here. So yeah, so we have been trying to

1454
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 7: also like tell you a students that they're welcome to

1455
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 7: come with the like stators and services and things like that.

1456
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 7: We are trying to make this as welcoming a space

1457
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 7: as possible and ask those groups to really make sure

1458
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 7: that they are acting in line with the overall message

1459
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 7: without it being a distraction to what we're here standing for.

1460
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 4: One of the big controversies nationally, Pierce Morgan played a

1461
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 4: role in this, But even without Pierce Morgan, I think

1462
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,839
Speaker 4: you still would have had this this this quote unquote

1463
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 4: stabbed in the eye controversy that went around. If we

1464
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 4: could play ef EF four here, just put this put

1465
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 4: this v up v O up. A student who turns

1466
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,560
Speaker 4: out to be kind of a right wing provocateur. She

1467
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 4: had previously gone viral like a year or two ago

1468
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 4: complaining about Israeli couscous. So here there that's the flag

1469
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 4: incidents that you guys just saw it basically toy, little toy,

1470
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 4: little flag that the person is waving as as they're

1471
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 4: walking through.

1472
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:44,960
Speaker 8: Uh.

1473
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 3: The the alleged victim said that she had been stabbed in.

1474
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 4: The eye and sent fear kind of coursing through Jewish

1475
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 4: communities around the country. That the video urged finally last

1476
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 4: night showing that you know, if she was hit at all,

1477
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 4: it was a it was it was grazing by a

1478
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 4: kind of rounded ball at the end of a toy

1479
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 4: toy flag, and that clearly.

1480
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 3: Has because she's been on televit and clearly did no damage.

1481
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 4: What you know, I'm curious what you know, what the

1482
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 4: encampment felt when they when they initially heard that story.

1483
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 4: And also, yes to at Lea's point, what are you

1484
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:24,719
Speaker 4: guys doing to try to control the message and control

1485
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,560
Speaker 4: the narrative, because now this has become a kind of

1486
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 4: international spectacle that is kind of a competition for the narrative.

1487
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that there's a sense there is a

1488
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 7: sense of war reversly at the idea of somebody who

1489
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 7: was kind of on our side i quote unquote for

1490
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 7: treating such behavior, but also the idea that incidents get

1491
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 7: blown out of.

1492
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 6: Proportion is not, hir.

1493
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 7: We have a lot of students who are counter protesters

1494
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 7: who try to come in, who try to film our

1495
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 7: faces and change to the narrative a lot, or take

1496
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 7: things out of context. We have strict policies here not

1497
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 7: to interact with counter protesters because we understand that pretty

1498
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 7: much anything that we do will often be misconstrued or

1499
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 7: taken out of context. And so, I mean, our main

1500
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 7: policy is to not encourage that, not give anybody any fuel,

1501
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:33,640
Speaker 7: but then also to really not express it. For the

1502
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 7: most part, I think that we try to work to

1503
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 7: show it with our actions rather than trying to control

1504
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 7: a certain message which we have found to be inadequate

1505
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 7: or futile.

1506
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,480
Speaker 6: For the most part, there's so many people.

1507
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 7: That every single thing we say will get used in

1508
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,480
Speaker 7: some capacity, And we do have a lot of instigators

1509
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:01,640
Speaker 7: here who try to come who try to video us

1510
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 7: and change the narrative, and so all we can do

1511
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 7: is kind of take a.

1512
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 6: Step back and hope that the actual message gets through.

1513
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,800
Speaker 5: And you have House Speaker Mike Johnson coming to Columbia today,

1514
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 5: what are the things I want to ask I'm sort

1515
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 5: of fascinated by. On the one hand, do you have

1516
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 5: people on the right, saying Columbia has been too permissive

1517
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 5: of the encampment, too permissive of the ravel rousers. On

1518
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 5: the other hand, the left says Columbia has been and

1519
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 5: this may be your perspective too, the left has been

1520
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 5: cracked down on by the university disproportionately. Tell us a

1521
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 5: little bit about what your interactions with the university have been, like,

1522
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 5: what your perspective is on how they've handled the whole situation.

1523
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, my experience of joining the encampment was

1524
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 7: specifically in reaction to watching the students get arrested and

1525
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 7: watching this swarm of NYPD office sers in riot here

1526
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 7: come and forcibly extract at a couple dozen students from

1527
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 7: genuinely peacefully protesting. So I find that a large part

1528
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 7: of this now has been this idea of free speech

1529
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 7: and the ability to protest on campus, and this area

1530
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,880
Speaker 7: of campus spond has been designated by Columbia as a

1531
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 7: free speech sto. And as we see the legacy of

1532
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 7: Vietnam protests, the idea that within thirty hours the administration

1533
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 7: came and forcibly removed people with MIPD officers was just

1534
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:30,080
Speaker 7: a horrific incident and then in light of that, I

1535
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 7: believe that the administration has been scared to act in

1536
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:38,560
Speaker 7: any way, and especially after the huge backlash and international

1537
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 7: movement that those arrests largely inspired. It's been interesting to

1538
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 7: see their response so at first, through the course of

1539
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 7: negotiations that organizers have had, there's been a lot of

1540
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 7: mixed messages from them, a lot of lack of clarity

1541
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:53,879
Speaker 7: in terms.

1542
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 6: Of the administration.

1543
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 7: They've given us mixed messages and most promises regarding ten

1544
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 7: police presence, how long we can be out here. We

1545
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 7: were informed last night at ten thirty that there was

1546
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 7: a threat of the National Guard coming, that president should

1547
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 7: be actually threatened to send in the National Guard, which

1548
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 7: is horrific.

1549
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 3: Who does she threaten that to directly h they're kind

1550
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,599
Speaker 3: of student negotiators.

1551
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 7: Or that was sent to I believe administration or like

1552
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 7: that was through faculty. Then then told us afterwards, however,

1553
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 7: we were sent a threatening letter saying that she had

1554
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 7: a midnight deadline and that if that was for negotiations

1555
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 7: and if there was no agreement met, that she would

1556
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 7: take further action. So there was a lot of talk

1557
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 7: there was supposed to be a police raid last night,

1558
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 7: and then she decided to change the deadline until eight

1559
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 7: am today, so.

1560
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 6: We believed that there was going to be a huge

1561
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:56,639
Speaker 6: police raid at.

1562
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,600
Speaker 7: Eight am today, and then as of this morning, she

1563
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 7: has changed the deadline to a further forty eight hours.

1564
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 7: So it's been tiring and tedious, and the administration has

1565
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 7: been consistently arguing in that faith.

1566
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 6: There's been no.

1567
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 7: Communication with faculty as in how to handle it, so

1568
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 7: the faculty are completely in the dart about what to

1569
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 7: do or how to manage things with their students, how

1570
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 7: to manage student safety. So there's been such just a

1571
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:31,560
Speaker 7: sense of confusion both in what's happening and trying to

1572
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 7: both protect the students and protect the rite of free

1573
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 7: speech here on campus. They're somehow not doing any of it,

1574
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 7: which is just incredibly disappointing and disheartening to see from

1575
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 7: our administration, especially from a new president.

1576
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 4: And so in mid February, the Shearian Collective and if

1577
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 4: we can put up I think it's f F three

1578
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 4: here put up this crazy job posting where one of

1579
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 4: the things they said they were looking for were infiltrators

1580
01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,599
Speaker 4: that they can read from it here they said individual

1581
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 4: they're looking well, individuals with Arabic sounding names and Middle

1582
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 4: Eastern appearance, may be uniquely positioned for deeper infiltration and

1583
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 4: will receive cash compensation for their vital role in our operation.

1584
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 5: UH.

1585
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 3: One of the cities they said they were looking to

1586
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 3: hire in was UH was New York City.

1587
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 2: UH.

1588
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 4: The organization some of their internal messages were leaked later

1589
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 4: It said that they actually hoped that they were just

1590
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 4: they were just going to spark a lot of paranoia

1591
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,759
Speaker 4: and that they might not even need to go forward,

1592
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 4: you know, with this operation, that just publicly posting for

1593
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,240
Speaker 4: these job offerings would be enough enough to kind of

1594
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 4: tear protest groups in half, with everybody you know, pointing

1595
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 4: at each other as infiltrators. I'm curious what what the

1596
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,479
Speaker 4: level of paranoia is, although at the same time, calling

1597
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 4: it paranoia is not quite fair because you know, we

1598
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 4: know throughout history there have been kind of provocateurs and

1599
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,760
Speaker 4: infiltrators who have come in to try to you know,

1600
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 4: you know, shout, make make an organization look bad. So

1601
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 4: how is the encampment handling that particular dynamic.

1602
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 6: There is a fear of infiltrators. We try to be

1603
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 6: on the lookout.

1604
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 7: There's a lot of security around this perimeter and people

1605
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 7: that have now been trained to kind of see to

1606
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 7: stuss out people for lack of a better word, and

1607
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 7: it's pretty much impossible, so we can have people come in.

1608
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 7: We have very strict community guidelines that we try to follow,

1609
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 7: and so when people violate those community guidelines, like filming

1610
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 7: people's faces, which has like students have already started to

1611
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 7: be doxed and exposed for their involvement in any way.

1612
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 7: So as soon as we see things like people filming,

1613
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:49,679
Speaker 7: we can kind of say if we leave.

1614
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 6: There have been instances of.

1615
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 7: Us having to actively ask people to leave because they

1616
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 7: were trying to instigate.

1617
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 6: It's impossible to see who's trying to infiltrate and who

1618
01:26:59,360 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 6: is not.

1619
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,600
Speaker 7: However, we have alerts kind of like when we know

1620
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:06,440
Speaker 7: that things are higher, when there's things that are less disorganized,

1621
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 7: like last night, in the midst of thinking there's going

1622
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 7: to be a police.

1623
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,719
Speaker 6: Raid, we were noting that it's a specific time.

1624
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,320
Speaker 7: That would be very feasible for quote infiltrators to come in.

1625
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 6: So there is a level of paranoia, there is a

1626
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:19,800
Speaker 6: level of fear.

1627
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 7: However, everybody here kind of knows that there's a chance

1628
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 7: of being docs to being exposed, of being arrested or suspended,

1629
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 7: and so there's only so much that we can do

1630
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 7: to prevent it. And the only idea is that we

1631
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:37,560
Speaker 7: can't be scared. We already know that the administration is

1632
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 7: threatening us enough and so the possibility of infiltrators is

1633
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 7: surely not enough to kind of.

1634
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 6: Change anything here.

1635
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 4: And while I've got you, I don't want to put

1636
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:51,720
Speaker 4: you on the spot too much as a kind of

1637
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 4: spokesperson for the entire kind of movement. But as here's

1638
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 4: my old man complaint, as somebody who covered Occupy Walls Street,

1639
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,240
Speaker 4: the so called people's mic, and so for people who

1640
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 4: don't know, the people's mic is what the protests have

1641
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 4: developed when the police that you can't use av and

1642
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 4: you've got to be able to reach people in the back.

1643
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 4: So somebody will say something and then the entire crowd

1644
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 4: kind of repeats it back. And when you're in the

1645
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 4: middle of it, it can be this production of solidarity

1646
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 4: and really a moving experience. When you're outside of it,

1647
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 4: it just looks so creepy and weird, like the people's mic.

1648
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, God, the people's mic has got to go.

1649
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 3: There's got to be something else.

1650
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,679
Speaker 4: But I'm curious for you know, how you feel about

1651
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:41,519
Speaker 4: the people's mic and if there's any other solution, because

1652
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 4: once it becomes a contest for you know, public ideas

1653
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 4: and the public narrative, it winds up undermining by just

1654
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 4: kind of looking weird.

1655
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, there is an incident of this a few days

1656
01:28:56,320 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 7: ago in a video that started being put around for

1657
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,680
Speaker 7: some instinct, try to come on to campus, come into

1658
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:05,600
Speaker 7: the encampment, and we ask them to leave. There was

1659
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 7: a lot of people mike and then people started singing spirituals,

1660
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 7: which in the moment made me cry. It was a

1661
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 7: gorgeous moment and everybody was in solidarity, singing together.

1662
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 6: Watched a video of that later. It looked like a

1663
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 6: horror movie and I understand that.

1664
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 7: So I think it's a really difficult line to draw

1665
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:29,719
Speaker 7: because we need people mike in order to communicate. There's

1666
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 7: not a lot of capacity as long as the school

1667
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 7: is not allowing us to use any applification.

1668
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 6: But I mean, I'm in agree with you. I've seen

1669
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 6: those videos. I think.

1670
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 7: It's again that kind of line between worrying too much

1671
01:29:45,479 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 7: about the media and then having to change organizing tactics

1672
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:51,560
Speaker 7: in a way to make it yet less useful and

1673
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 7: less organized and making it so people can't communicate. So again,

1674
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 7: I think that there's a dentive priorities and a lot

1675
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 7: of this tire encampment has been trying to figure out

1676
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 7: what their priorities are.

1677
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 6: We have finals coming up. People think that this is

1678
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 6: more important.

1679
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 7: We understand we can look like oh horror movie when

1680
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:15,759
Speaker 7: using people's mike, But again, we have to do whatever

1681
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 7: it takes to make sure people are united, even if

1682
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 7: it gets misconstrued, because as I said before, truly everything

1683
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 7: is getting misconstrued in a way that's supporting.

1684
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 6: The other side.

1685
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 4: Its last question for you, how are how are people

1686
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:36,639
Speaker 4: handling the professional threats you have, you know, senators, members

1687
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 4: of Congress, billionaires saying we need to identify We're going

1688
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,120
Speaker 4: to have facial recognition technologies can to identify all of

1689
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 4: these hamas supporters, and we're going to make sure that

1690
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 4: they're you know, they're never never employed ever again. Obviously,

1691
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 4: these are successful students who've you know, made it to

1692
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 4: you know, Columbia undergrad or Columbia graduate school.

1693
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 3: And so that is that must be something that is

1694
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 3: on them at some level. Getting smeared like that.

1695
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,799
Speaker 4: On the other hand, you're facing this moment of intense

1696
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 4: moral clarity, witnessing a genocide unfold.

1697
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 3: How are people grappling with that tension.

1698
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 6: We try to be really careful of privacy.

1699
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:19,200
Speaker 7: So privacy is one of the number one concerns at

1700
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 7: the candid So we always have masks on hand.

1701
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 6: We always kind of have levels of a different levels

1702
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 6: of privacy for different people.

1703
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 7: We have the groups of people who are willing to

1704
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 7: be arrested and then those who don't want such level

1705
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:37,560
Speaker 7: of attention. We have no photographs of people's spaces. We

1706
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 7: have really strict rules of the media who come here

1707
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 7: and what they can and cannot do. We understand that

1708
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,240
Speaker 7: this is such a huge concern for a lot of

1709
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 7: people who put their life on the line for this,

1710
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:51,760
Speaker 7: and a lot of what is most useful is the

1711
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:56,760
Speaker 7: bodies just here and occupying the space and who these

1712
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 7: people are.

1713
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:00,879
Speaker 6: We try to keep that protected as as much as possible.

1714
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 7: I am in a very lucky position where my hopefully

1715
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,560
Speaker 7: future employers would never cared if I am identified with this,

1716
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 7: but a lot of people really do care, and a

1717
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 7: lot of people are putting their friendships, their family relationships

1718
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:19,840
Speaker 7: on the line, and while we could do whatever we

1719
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 7: can again, I think people have assumed this sense of

1720
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 7: risk coming here and know what may happen, but in

1721
01:32:26,680 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 7: interim or trying everything that we possibly can to protect

1722
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:33,920
Speaker 7: people and also to prevent people from coming in infiltrators

1723
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 7: and using that opportunity to expose us, which is really

1724
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 7: all all that they're able.

1725
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 6: To do at this point.

1726
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 5: You know, I was just going to say, I had

1727
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 5: a funny thought while you were talking. Just having worked

1728
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 5: with so many conservative college students in the last decade,

1729
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 5: there's something so similar. And there is obviously hypocrisy, but

1730
01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 5: there's just something so similar about students exercising important rights

1731
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:59,560
Speaker 5: on campus, engaging in free expression, having challenging conversations, and

1732
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 5: getting to targeted for it. And we just have to

1733
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 5: be consistent when it's hardest. And I think that's you know,

1734
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 5: it's when students are within the bounds and outside of

1735
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 5: you know, they're not being bigoted, they're not being violent

1736
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:15,640
Speaker 5: or inciting anything. It's we should be cool, like we

1737
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:17,600
Speaker 5: should be happy to see this happen on college.

1738
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 4: Campuses, and college campuses advertise that there are places where

1739
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 4: this kind of thing can happen.

1740
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 3: I guess. And the actual last question for.

1741
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 4: You, what have you said and what would you say

1742
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:33,600
Speaker 4: to other Jewish students who say that they can't be

1743
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,480
Speaker 4: safe at these protests.

1744
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:41,479
Speaker 7: I would say that I understand the fear, and I

1745
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,759
Speaker 7: understand that a lot of the rhetoric can feel really personal.

1746
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 7: I think that there's a huge distinction between being critical

1747
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 7: of Israel and being critical of the Jewish people, and

1748
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,720
Speaker 7: that is a distinction that I believe that all the

1749
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 7: Jews here understand, and that I believe that it is

1750
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 7: honestly more anti Semitic to conflate those two.

1751
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:08,160
Speaker 6: So a lot of the fears that people have are those.

1752
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 7: I do understand that there are sometimes personal attacks that

1753
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 7: are outside of the context of Israel.

1754
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 6: However, I would just try to tell Jewish.

1755
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 7: Students that this is not about religion, This is not

1756
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 7: about the personal identities.

1757
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 6: This is about holding the school.

1758
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:29,240
Speaker 7: Accountable and making sure we know where our tuition money

1759
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 7: is going, making sure we have a say in that,

1760
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 7: and honestly just championing deep solidarity with people in Gaza

1761
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 7: who are currently being murdered, and that is the issue

1762
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 7: first and foremost, besides and the identities of individual people here.

1763
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 7: Or the Jewish students on campus and elsewhere, is though

1764
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 7: almost irrelevant to what we are trying. And this has

1765
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 7: been such a honestly inspiring, encouraging experience for me as

1766
01:34:57,200 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 7: a Jewish student.

1767
01:34:58,479 --> 01:35:01,519
Speaker 6: Was faced absolutely no far of anti semitism here.

1768
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 7: That I really would encourage students to look at it

1769
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 7: in that lens and know that they are safe at

1770
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:11,519
Speaker 7: least in.

1771
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 6: This encampment and in these spaces.

1772
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 4: Well Sofia South, the first year law student at Columbia University,

1773
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 4: thank you so much for joining us, and good luck

1774
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:23,160
Speaker 4: with the ongoing protest.

1775
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 6: Thank you thanks for having me.

1776
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,400
Speaker 5: This is a fascinating interview Ryan, and I think an

1777
01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 5: important perspective from somebody who is Jewish and is has

1778
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 5: this is argument about, you know, the conflation of anti

1779
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 5: Zionism and anti Semitism perspective quite literally from inside the encampment.

1780
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 5: Thanks for setting that up. I really thought that was interesting.

1781
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:46,800
Speaker 4: And she was telling me before, you know, she's not

1782
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 4: at all unfamiliar with anti Semitism, and and you know,

1783
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:55,000
Speaker 4: being in some spaces where it's almost where it's uncomfortable

1784
01:35:55,080 --> 01:36:00,200
Speaker 4: to even mention your your Jewishness, but she said was

1785
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 4: one of the places where she's been most proud to

1786
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 4: mention it and felt most welcomed really, which I thought

1787
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 4: found rather a striking and I'm glad.

1788
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 5: You know, it would be one thing if she came

1789
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 5: on and pretended that some of the other stuff hadn't happened.

1790
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 5: The Akassar, right, this is targets, this real stuff.

1791
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1792
01:36:19,479 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 5: I mean there was that speech about the Oh my gosh,

1793
01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:26,320
Speaker 5: that one speech was so bad from someoney. This must

1794
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 5: have been on the people's mic. The quote was the

1795
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 5: Aloxa flood that put the global into fought back on

1796
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:34,559
Speaker 5: the table again in the sacrificial spirit of the Palestinian

1797
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 5: freedom fighters, referring to October seventh. I mean, you have

1798
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 5: to acknowledge that, and you have to talk about how

1799
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 5: you're dealing with it. It's a real problem.

1800
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really is.

1801
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 4: And it's interesting to see how they're how the students

1802
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:51,600
Speaker 4: are grappling with it, as you know, because there's a

1803
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:57,400
Speaker 4: contradiction between you know, their initial kind of rolling out

1804
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:01,760
Speaker 4: of a small protest aimed at at discrete kind of

1805
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:06,720
Speaker 4: university policies, which then steam rolls into this international moment, right,

1806
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden they're trying to grapple

1807
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 4: with how that looks.

1808
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:12,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, they've got the Speaker of the House coming to

1809
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:13,880
Speaker 5: talk to them, to talk at them.

1810
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:15,599
Speaker 3: Probably I want to see the Speaker of the House

1811
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 3: use the people's mic like that would be That would

1812
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:19,720
Speaker 3: be kind of fun.

1813
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 5: No comment, Well, just a reminder. We talked about this

1814
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:27,320
Speaker 5: in the beginning of the show. We're so excited to

1815
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 5: announce that we're going to be doing a Friday edition

1816
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 5: of Counterpoints from here on out, starting this week with

1817
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 5: a very big guest. So breakingpoints dot com if you

1818
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:36,040
Speaker 5: want to get the show early, you'll get the show early,

1819
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:38,800
Speaker 5: not just this week but every week. But it will

1820
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 5: be coming to everybody on Fridays, probably a little bit

1821
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 5: earlier than that Thursday night if you're a premium subscriber.

1822
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:46,719
Speaker 5: Breaking Points dot Com for that. But we're just excited

1823
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 5: to get it out there.

1824
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,040
Speaker 3: Go change my tie. So it looks like we did

1825
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 3: this on a different day.

1826
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, we are about to tape it, but I just

1827
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:54,959
Speaker 5: destroyed the illusion.

1828
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 3: All right, We'll see you guys next time.