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Speaker 1: Hi everyone. I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've known and admire Dr Sanjay Gupta for years.

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Speaker 1: He's such a great guy. He's also a neuroscientist and

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Speaker 1: the chief medical correspondent for CNN, which, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: when COVID hit put him at the center of the

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Speaker 1: pandemic storm. This may be a new pathogen that circulates

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Speaker 1: around the world. You're running into a situation where you

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Speaker 1: just don't have beds. If those numbers don't budge, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be very hard to get to hurt immunity. I

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Speaker 1: think this has added a lot more urgency to an

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Speaker 1: already very urgent situation. There has been so much to cover.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Sanjay also launched a daily podcast on the subject.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dr Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent, and this

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Speaker 1: is coronavirus fact versus fiction. Throughout this very long year,

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Speaker 1: Sanja has really acted as our guide, helping us understand

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Speaker 1: the thorny virus and what it means for our health,

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Speaker 1: our communities, and our country. And he admits it's been

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Speaker 1: as all consuming as you might think. All I think about,

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Speaker 1: Katie has been COVID. You know, I viral transmission, how

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Speaker 1: people evaluate risk social behavior. But there is some joy

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Speaker 1: in getting so head down in something. I feel like

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Speaker 1: we live such distracted lives. You get a little bit

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Speaker 1: about a lot of things, like I really know so

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Speaker 1: much about this virus. I also wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: Sanjay because he's got a new book out. Yeah, believe

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Speaker 1: it or not, he found time to write a book

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Speaker 1: during this crazy year. It's called Keep Sharp, Building a

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Speaker 1: Better Brain at any Age, and it's fascinating. It's also

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Speaker 1: a practical guide for better brain health, something I'm extremely

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Speaker 1: interested in. And don't worry, we do get into that,

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Speaker 1: but since I have the COVID expert of experts, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't help but start our conversation there. You must feel

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Speaker 1: like you you have a PhD in virology at this point, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean totally and and and the the irony is, Katie,

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Speaker 1: is that this is a novel virus, right, So I

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Speaker 1: mean novel actually means something, which which that didn't really

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Speaker 1: strike me until a few months into this either, Like

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Speaker 1: I think because you said the PhD in virology. The

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Speaker 1: the irony is that that I think people who had

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Speaker 1: a lot of knowledge about this. In some ways it

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Speaker 1: got in their way because it's very hard to think

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Speaker 1: about something as novel. You immediately want to put it

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Speaker 1: into a box. It's the box of stars, it's the

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Speaker 1: box of H one, N one, whatever you come up with.

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Speaker 1: But this was novel, which means that if you try

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Speaker 1: to put it in a box, you probably got it wrong.

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Speaker 1: So they had to cast aside their preconceived notions completely,

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Speaker 1: and that's hard to do, right for a scientist, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to do, and and it goes against sort

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Speaker 1: of how you think about things. Let's get the best experts.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I think there's really really value,

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Speaker 1: great value and expertise. Don't get me wrong, But what

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Speaker 1: you would do is grab the coronavirus experts, grabbed the

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Speaker 1: pandemic experts, and that was all important. But this virus

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Speaker 1: was just behaving in a totally novel way. I mean.

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Speaker 1: One of the best examples, as you well know, was

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Speaker 1: everybody believed that respiratory virus is really only spread when

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Speaker 1: you were sick. When you were when you had symptoms,

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Speaker 1: that's when you spread. And you know, the guidance was,

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Speaker 1: will screen people at airports, will tell people to stay

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Speaker 1: home if they're sick, which people should do anyway, regardless

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Speaker 1: of whether in a pandemic, and we should be able

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Speaker 1: to quell this thing. No one really believed initially that

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Speaker 1: this thing would spread most efficiently when people didn't have symptoms.

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Speaker 1: That that was that's never really happened before, is it.

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Speaker 1: As Dr Fauci has said, never in the history of

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Speaker 1: respiratory viruses has that happened before. That's novel. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, remember the story of typhoid Mary. She was

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Speaker 1: a silent carrier of typhoid. It was so dramatic because

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Speaker 1: she infected all these people in this single residents in

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Speaker 1: this community and all that, and people couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: This is like millions of typhoid Mary's in a way

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Speaker 1: of a of a brand new disease, COVID, So it

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Speaker 1: is it was quite extraordinary to sort of see that, uh,

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Speaker 1: see see how that all played out. Well, before we

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Speaker 1: talk about your your new book, keep sharp, because I'm

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Speaker 1: really interested, as someone who's sixty four, in maintaining my

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Speaker 1: mental acuity as i age. I just want to ask

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Speaker 1: you one last question about COVID, and that is, are

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Speaker 1: we seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 1: Every time I feel optimistic, sang, I then read something

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Speaker 1: about variance or increased cases, and it's quite nerve racking,

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Speaker 1: I think for the average person who doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: medical degree or hasn't been deeply, deeply entrenched in the

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Speaker 1: science of this, I mean, are we screwed? Are we

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Speaker 1: at the tail end of this pandemic? I do feel

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Speaker 1: the light on my face, in your face. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I do think that the the tunnel is is the

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Speaker 1: end of the tunnels in sight? I mean, the then

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Speaker 1: can I just can I just remind people, and I

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Speaker 1: think this is such an important reminder that they were

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Speaker 1: having rave parties in Wuhan at the end of last summer.

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Speaker 1: And I bring that up only to say that we

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Speaker 1: talked about the vaccines. We talked about the fact that

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Speaker 1: science is now rescuing us, which is great, fantastic, but

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Speaker 1: so much of this didn't need to happen. And I

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Speaker 1: and I and I know that's not your question, Katie,

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Speaker 1: but I just feel like I can never answer a

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Speaker 1: question about um, about the sort of future or being

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Speaker 1: optimistic about this pandemic because I'm so it's just so,

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Speaker 1: it's so, I'm so angry in so many ways. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, six people died and some of them are

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Speaker 1: my friends. And I've seen families, I talk to families still,

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Speaker 1: I just it just this may not have even been

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Speaker 1: the Black Swan event, right, we think of this black

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Speaker 1: Swan event, this really contagious virus, which this was, but

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Speaker 1: something that has a two to three percent mortality that

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Speaker 1: would be awful, that would be the Black Swan event.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't even that. There were countries around the world

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Speaker 1: that immediately quelled this and measure their debts in the

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Speaker 1: hundreds instead of the hundreds of thousands. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: we are a society. Because we are we focus on

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Speaker 1: touchdowns and home runs and knockouts. We don't care much

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Speaker 1: for singles and doubles. Because we're that society. We waited

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Speaker 1: for science to rescue us. And and the vaccines will.

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Speaker 1: I think they're really extraordinary and really effective. They seem

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Speaker 1: to be pretty effective against the variant B one one seven,

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Speaker 1: the UK variant, because there's a lot of concern about

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Speaker 1: that variant. But if you have been vaccinated, or if

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Speaker 1: you had the infection in the past, the other you know,

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Speaker 1: the the circulating coronavirus that should also protect you. So

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Speaker 1: it's really I think it's really good. And I think

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Speaker 1: with the warmer, warmer weather in the summer, viral transmission

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Speaker 1: rates will go down. That would be great. I do think,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, we'll probably get to hurt immunity over

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Speaker 1: the summer, but but it's worth reminding that her immunity

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Speaker 1: isn't a sort of destination. Necessarily. You can pop in

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Speaker 1: and out of her immunity. So if not enough people

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Speaker 1: get vaccinated over you know, the next few months, then

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Speaker 1: going into the colder weather again in the fall, we

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Speaker 1: could see resurgences. It's quite disturbing when you hear about

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Speaker 1: the people who are refusing to get vaccinated. Many of

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Speaker 1: them are white men, Uh, in this country. I think

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Speaker 1: you see the impact of politics on that number, not

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Speaker 1: only in terms of the response to the pandemic, but

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Speaker 1: now to the response to the vaccines. Uh. That must

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Speaker 1: be quite disturbing for you too, it is for me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's been no not a single part of

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Speaker 1: this entire pandemic that hasn't been politicized in some way.

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Speaker 1: I mean that I guess now you say that's in

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Speaker 1: in April of two one, and it's obvious, right, everyone

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Speaker 1: knows that, but started starting off covering the story, um

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Speaker 1: and now all the way now to the vaccines, even

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Speaker 1: every single component has been politicized in some way. So

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Speaker 1: it is it is disturbing the anti vax movement. And

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Speaker 1: you may not even remember this, Katie, but I actually

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Speaker 1: did a segment on your your show years ago about

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Speaker 1: anti vaccination movement at that time around h one and one.

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Speaker 1: But it's been around for a long time, the anti

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Speaker 1: vaccination movement, and it's sort of you know, it simmers it.

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Speaker 1: We saw measles outbreaks in Brooklyn and and Disneyland and Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: This seems bigger though you know that was a particular group, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it really dealt primarily with childhood vaccinations and now

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Speaker 1: this has expanded to um, you know, these adults who

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Speaker 1: I don't know for one reason or another. I think

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Speaker 1: you can understand people of color and the terrible history

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Speaker 1: of Tuskegee and some of the ways that people of

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Speaker 1: color have been abused in scientific research in the past,

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Speaker 1: and this kind of deeply ingrained mistrust of the medical community.

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Speaker 1: So I think you can appreciate that. But this is,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a whole other ball of wax,

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Speaker 1: isn't it? Yes, it really is. And and you know

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Speaker 1: we're we're seeing some of this for or really seeing

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Speaker 1: it come to light, I should say, you know, in

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Speaker 1: a in a pretty dramatic way. Now. I think I

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Speaker 1: think I was reading the statistics this morning, Katie Kaiser

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Speaker 1: Family Foundation, forty of those in rural areas who say

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Speaker 1: they absolutely will not take the vaccine. It's not any

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Speaker 1: question of hey, I want more information, I want to

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Speaker 1: see how this plays out. They're just saying, out of

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Speaker 1: the gate they absolutely not take it. And what said,

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Speaker 1: what is the explanation? That's the curious thing, Like you said,

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Speaker 1: with some people who are vaccine hesitants, it is concerns

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Speaker 1: about safety or mistrust or you know, uh my my

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Speaker 1: grandfather was experimented on as part of Tuskegee, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like that. With this, I think it's almost an

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Speaker 1: extension of this pandemic. Isn't even real. It's not a hoax.

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Speaker 1: Why would I take a vaccine for something that's a hoax.

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Speaker 1: I'm not scared for safety of it. I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I think the whole thing is sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: the scam demic sort of thing. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's the case. For it's a huge percentage of

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Speaker 1: people were talking about here, so maybe there's a some heterogeneity,

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Speaker 1: you know, some variety of opinions there. But bottom line,

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Speaker 1: if if, if the numbers stay that high, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to get to hurt immunity based on vaccinating adults alone,

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Speaker 1: which is it's it's it's so. I mean, gosh, we

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Speaker 1: wait for science to rescue us. We don't do the

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Speaker 1: basic public health practices, and then when when this truly

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Speaker 1: extraordinary scientific achievement occurs in the form of this vaccine,

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Speaker 1: people don't take it. You know, if you are a

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Speaker 1: Martian coming to planet Earth and saying, so, let me

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Speaker 1: get this straight. So you didn't do anything about the virus.

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Speaker 1: You waited, created this amazing medicine, and then you don't

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Speaker 1: take the medicine to it. Just it doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 1: It's a head scratcher for sure. When do you think

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Speaker 1: Sanjay will be able to go about our daily lives

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Speaker 1: without mass I think it'll be this summer, Katie, I

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Speaker 1: I really do. I mean, I know that there's people

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Speaker 1: who are painting a more dire prediction around that, but

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Speaker 1: you know, we for no other reason alone with the

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Speaker 1: warmer weather, and then you're gonna really see the blunting

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Speaker 1: despite the vaccine hesitancy that we're talking about. You are

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Speaker 1: going to see a significant blunting of people who are

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Speaker 1: getting very sick, people who are dying. And we know

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Speaker 1: that the the vaccine does seem to have good evidence

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Speaker 1: that it stops or decreases transmission. So I think we're

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Speaker 1: really going to get to a pretty good point. I

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Speaker 1: think you'll still see masks around, you know, in in

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong after Hong Kong really wasn't a mask wearing

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Speaker 1: country until after Stars and then there was this huge

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Speaker 1: psychological impact. That's why they went to mass so early

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Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, but they became a mask wearing culture.

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Speaker 1: I think you will see people who are just frightened

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Speaker 1: still want to wear masks in public places. I think

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Speaker 1: in flu season, you know, the colder months, I think

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Speaker 1: you'll see more masks. I think that may become a

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Speaker 1: a larger part of our culture. Not a dominant, but

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Speaker 1: I think a larger part of our culture. That's interesting

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Speaker 1: because I remember being in Tokyo maybe gosh, gosh, maybe

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Speaker 1: ten ten or twelve years ago and going on the

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Speaker 1: train to Kyoto and seeing everyone wearing masks and thinking

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Speaker 1: this is so weird. Why are they wearing masks? And now,

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Speaker 1: of course I understand, and you're right. I think when

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Speaker 1: people are on places like public transportation, if they're in

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Speaker 1: a closed spaces with lots of strangers, Um, it actually

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Speaker 1: makes sense, doesn't it. I mean, you know, one thing

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Speaker 1: we saw, as you may remember, is that the flu

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Speaker 1: numbers were way down this past season, and that you

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Speaker 1: know that that wasn't because of any increase in in

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Speaker 1: vaccination or anything. That was because of just public health behavior.

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Speaker 1: It's always worked, you know. I don't know there's a

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Speaker 1: metaphor for this, Katie, right, I mean we I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's true in our lives, like we'd rather

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Speaker 1: just take a pill for weight loss rather than go exercise,

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Speaker 1: and we always want the convenience. And and this is

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Speaker 1: this is another example of that. We I I was struck.

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Speaker 1: And again, we can talk about COVID all day long,

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Speaker 1: but the but the I'll never forget these these mask

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Speaker 1: researchers from Harvard, a guy named Abera Kuran. He basically

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Speaker 1: was doing all this modeling all along. We were talking

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Speaker 1: to him. He told me that if for four weeks,

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Speaker 1: and this is back, you know, October November of last year,

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Speaker 1: if for four weeks everybody just wore a high filtration

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Speaker 1: mask when they went out in public, that's it. For

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Speaker 1: four weeks, if everybody did that, it would have ended

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. Are you kidding? That's incredible. The virus would

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Speaker 1: have nowhere to go. It couldn't find a willing host.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know that that that sort of that

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Speaker 1: sort of concept is something that's more than a hundred

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Speaker 1: years old. I just I just don't quite you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm just being naive, But but

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Speaker 1: you hear that and you think it's amazing, right, I

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Speaker 1: think it's amazing. And yet we also know both of

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Speaker 1: us that in the United States that couldn't happen. It

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Speaker 1: just wouldn't happen. I mean, human being survived and thrived

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Speaker 1: as a species because we're reciprocally altruistic. There's a reason

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Speaker 1: that it feels good to do good. Why should it

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Speaker 1: feel good when I do something nice for you? I mean,

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Speaker 1: what purposes that serve my evolutionary tree? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: But the reality is that it does feel good to

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Speaker 1: do good. We encoded that in some way in our

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Speaker 1: DNA and then people can't be bothered to wear a

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Speaker 1: mask to save tens of thousands of lives. I just

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Speaker 1: I'll that may be one of the greatest mysteries of

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Speaker 1: all out of this whole thing. Well, I just want

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Speaker 1: to say, on on behalf of the American public, thank

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Speaker 1: you for your coverage of this UM. I think you're

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Speaker 1: so measured and uh so eloquent and and honestly calming

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Speaker 1: in a way, and I just really appreciate all the

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Speaker 1: fantastic reporting you've done throughout this pandemic. So on behalf

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Speaker 1: of a grateful America, I would like to say thank you,

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Speaker 1: Sancho Gupta, Well, Katie, thank you, thank you, And that

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Speaker 1: obviously means a great deal in particular coming from you,

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate that you know, you get it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're you are the standard obviously by whom

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Speaker 1: we all measure ourselves. But also you know you were

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Speaker 1: all in these black holes, right I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know where you are right now. As I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: in this tiny little closet. I don't you don't get

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Speaker 1: any feedback. Sometimes it's been really dispiriting because you think, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm a medical reporter in the middle of a pandemic,

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Speaker 1: that that is my you know, that's a job. And

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Speaker 1: at the same time, the country in which I'm reporting

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Speaker 1: arguably did the worst in the world. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know I keep taking this in that direction, but it's

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Speaker 1: just so dispiriting. Did I did anyone listen to me?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if if, if you're the medical reporter and

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Speaker 1: presumably people are are counting on you to provide knowledge

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Speaker 1: hopefully that will inform how they behave and then we

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Speaker 1: do the worst in the world. That's that's you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to need to reflect on that. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the years to come, like what is

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Speaker 1: the real impact here? One could argue that maybe it

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Speaker 1: would have been worse, who knows, you know, but it's

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Speaker 1: pretty bad. Well, don't get too dispirited, because I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people listen, relied on you, and actually acted.

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Speaker 1: So even though the track record was bad, your information

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Speaker 1: was good and important. So thank you. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: When we come back Sanja and I find some optimism

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Speaker 1: and believe it or not, brain health, that's right after this,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about keep sharp because moving forward, I think

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Speaker 1: many people like me really are interested in how to

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Speaker 1: keep our cognitive and mental health at the top. And

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Speaker 1: I think you know, certainly, one big change in medicine

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Speaker 1: is that we as patients are not passive. It turns out, Sang,

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Speaker 1: that there is a lot of things that we can

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Speaker 1: do to keep our brains in shape, just like we

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Speaker 1: can do to keep our bodies and our organs and

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Speaker 1: other things in shape. And that's why you broke keep Sharp.

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Speaker 1: But you have a very very personal connection to this,

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Speaker 1: I guess, well, obviously because of your specialty, but particularly

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Speaker 1: about Alzheimer's dementia and are failing brain power that happens

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Speaker 1: as we age. Tell me about that. Well, when I

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Speaker 1: was when I was twelve thirteen years old, my grandfather,

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Speaker 1: my my mother's dad, who I was very close to,

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Speaker 1: um developed, you know, signs of dementia. He had had

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Speaker 1: a a stroke earlier in his life that had recovered

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Speaker 1: and was now developing. You know, just these these um

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Speaker 1: periods of time where he he really wasn't aware of

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Speaker 1: what was going on. He would sometimes, uh make a

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Speaker 1: joke that no one else was in on, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it was all these things that that I remember

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Speaker 1: really being struck by as a kid, because you look

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Speaker 1: at adults and you're not used to seeing brain power

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Speaker 1: start to diminish. And it was the first time I

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Speaker 1: saw really specific things like he could he could still

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Speaker 1: um right, but he couldn't really read. It was it

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Speaker 1: was all these things that became really fascinating in a

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Speaker 1: way for me in terms of just how does the

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Speaker 1: brain work like that? But also to see it in

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Speaker 1: a loved one to wonder, is that how genetic is that? Is? That?

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Speaker 1: Is my mom going to develop those symptoms? While I

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Speaker 1: one day all of that and then you know, fast forward,

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Speaker 1: you know, thirty forty years later, and and we're still

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Speaker 1: worrying about the exact same things, and and I haven't

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Speaker 1: really made a lot of progress in terms of being

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Speaker 1: able to deal with that. So that was that was

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Speaker 1: a large part of what I think inspired me to

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Speaker 1: to to write the book What has Happened over the

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Speaker 1: last forty years? Both from a, you know, a pharmaceutical standpoint,

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Speaker 1: but also more importantly, I think from a from a

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Speaker 1: lifestyle behavioral standpoint in terms of what we know and

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Speaker 1: how did that influence you to go into neurology? No,

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Speaker 1: you know it's funny, Um, it didn't. I actually when

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Speaker 1: I started medical medical school, I thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to go into pediatrics, and then I did a neurosurgery rotation,

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Speaker 1: uh during my third year of med school, and I

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Speaker 1: just sort of fell in love. So I came to

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Speaker 1: it quite late. But I was always interested in the

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Speaker 1: brain because of my grandfather, and so it felt like

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Speaker 1: a very natural fit. Let's talk about the numbers. Because

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Speaker 1: seven million Americans have some evidence of pre clinical Alzheimer's disease,

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Speaker 1: and by two sixty one new case of dementia will

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Speaker 1: be diagnosed every four seconds. SANJ, what the heck is

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Speaker 1: going on here? Well, this is this will become the

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Speaker 1: most dominant neurodegenerative disease of our time. I think that

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Speaker 1: that part, I think is is pretty well established at

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Speaker 1: this point. But there was two things about the statement

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Speaker 1: that you just made that I thought were really important

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Speaker 1: in terms of what we can potentially do about it.

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Speaker 1: As you point out, there's probably about forty seven million

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Speaker 1: people who if you were to look at their brains,

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Speaker 1: they would have objective evidence of plaques and tangles and

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Speaker 1: things like that, but also have no symptoms. That's the

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Speaker 1: pre clinical time, right, so out a little well, it's

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Speaker 1: you know, but I think this is ultimately good news,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why. If you look at patients

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Speaker 1: with Alzheimer's disease and and and able to retrospectively look

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Speaker 1: at their lives and their scans and their brains, you

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Speaker 1: find we now know that that Alzheimer's starts in the

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Speaker 1: brain decades before people develop symptoms. Decades so you're starting

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Speaker 1: to see the kindling and then even plaques and tangles.

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Speaker 1: But the fundamental point that neuroscientists really started to focus

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Speaker 1: on was almost the the the analog of that, meaning, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so now you've established that you can have a brain

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Speaker 1: that has plaques and tangles but still functions normally. So

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Speaker 1: why don't we focus on that side of things instead

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Speaker 1: of saying, hey, look, let's get rid of the plaques

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Speaker 1: and tangles, and we have spent billions of dollars testing

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Speaker 1: drugs to do that that haven't really worked. What if

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Speaker 1: we say, instead, we have established that a brain with

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Speaker 1: plaques and tangles can function normally. Let's figure out why

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Speaker 1: and see if we can basically make that an aspiration.

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Speaker 1: Do you still have objective evidence of Alzheimer's in your brain. Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is it consequential? No, because you know you you are

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Speaker 1: able to still have normal cognitive function, memory, judgment, all

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Speaker 1: the things that you associate with a healthy functioning brain.

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Speaker 1: The metaphor, in some ways, Katie would kind of be

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Speaker 1: like a heart bypass surgery. You've got a block blood vessel.

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Speaker 1: Now you you go in there and you bypass that

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Speaker 1: area of the blockage with a new blood vessel. Do

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Speaker 1: you still have heart disease? Yes? Is it? Is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it causing you some dysfunction? No, because you're getting

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Speaker 1: enough blood flow now to the heart. If you can

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Speaker 1: think about that same metaphor for the brain, Yes, you

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Speaker 1: have plaques, but there's so many ways to build all

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Speaker 1: these new pathways in the brain to your destination, that

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Speaker 1: little blockages due to the plaques becoming consequential. So is

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Speaker 1: there a tipping point? You know you talk about these

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Speaker 1: tangles and plaques in your brain. Um, is it just

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Speaker 1: a slow growth of plaque or slow accumulation of plaque

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Speaker 1: and increase kind of tangles that then lead you from

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Speaker 1: being perfectly functioning? You know, maybe some memory issues right

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Speaker 1: that once in a while, you you know you're not

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Speaker 1: quite as sharp as you were as you when you

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Speaker 1: were younger. But where you kind of fall off or

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Speaker 1: it's just gradual build up of this gunk in your brain,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it does seem to be a pretty gradual

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Speaker 1: build up, and you can tolerate a significant amount of

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Speaker 1: build up before you I guess as you as you say,

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Speaker 1: fall off. You know, so what exactly then pushes people over?

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Speaker 1: It's not all of a sudden you have an exponentially

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Speaker 1: more plaque, and that leads to the problem. Maybe for

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Speaker 1: different people it's a different inflection point. But the brain

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Speaker 1: is actually quite resilient. I mean, that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: came out of this. Even with a lot of plaque

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Speaker 1: and tangle, you could actually be doing fairly well. I

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Speaker 1: mean the occasional memory lapse, like you say, which is

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Speaker 1: probably do more to inattention than even anything organic in

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Speaker 1: the brain, but other than that doing pretty well. And

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Speaker 1: you see societies around the world where arguably brain function

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Speaker 1: not only is it good, it may be improving as

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Speaker 1: you get older, which is so incredible, and that I

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Speaker 1: think is one of the hopeful things about this book,

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Speaker 1: that that our brains can get sharper and better as

427
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: we age and dementia is not necessarily an inevitable, you know,

428
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: consequence of old age. So um, you know, I remember

429
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: reading Sanjay how your brain like by the time you're

430
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: twenty three or twenty four and then your prefrontal frontal

431
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: lobe and all this thing that has to stuff that

432
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: has to do with judgment, Like after that, your brain

433
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: really stops absorbing and growing and changing. I mean that

434
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: was sort of what I always thought, and then it

435
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: was downhill from there. But but this book is really

436
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: cause for celebration in some ways, right, right, absolutely, you

437
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: know I was told the same thing. Right, You've got

438
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: a certain number of neurons in your brain, and then

439
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: you're going to drain the cash as you go through life.

440
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Certain things is like drinking alcohol and things like that

441
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: are gonna kill more brain cells. You're never going to

442
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: get them back. I think that's what our parents told

443
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: us to keep us front drink. It works well to

444
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: some extent, but the the you know it, but that

445
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: that part of it is not true, and that that

446
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: may be one of the most fundamental new things that

447
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: we learned. And by the way, you'll appreciate this, Katie,

448
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm in some ways this book, I'm acting as translator.

449
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: I go to these neuroscience meetings because that you know,

450
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: I live this bifurcated life between medicine and media. But

451
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm still going to these neuroscience meetings and they're talking

452
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: about these fascinating developments, and yet that hasn't really gotten

453
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: to the to the lay public yet. So it's about

454
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: a ten year gap in some ways. Keep Sharp is

455
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: to just accelerate that that knowledge tree. But one of

456
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: the things that they've been talking about is exactly what

457
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: you mentioned, which is neurogenesis. Everyone's heard of neuroplasticity, which

458
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: basically means you can recruit neurons, brain cells from other

459
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: areas of the brain to do new functions. This is

460
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: actually growing new brain cells, and we were told throughout

461
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: our lives that it basically happened twice. You know, when

462
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: you were a baby in your brain was still forming,

463
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: and maybe after an injury like a stroke or traumatic

464
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: brain injury, there may be a process of neurogenesis that occurs.

465
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: But what these these neuroscientists have have really I've been

466
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: writing about and focused on for some time is that

467
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: at any age, a healthy brain can continue to grow

468
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: new brain cells. You really can't say that about any

469
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: other organ in the body. So it's quite incredible. The

470
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: stem cell surges, the various growth factors, all these things

471
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: that converge to allow you to grow new brain cells

472
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: at any age. That to me was deeply inspiring. It's

473
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: super exciting. But let me dis backtrack for one moment,

474
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: just so I understand the difference between neuroplasticity and neurogenesis. Um,

475
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: explain it like I'm a fifth grade Okay, So you know,

476
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: when you think of neuroplasticity, it's more like your brain

477
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: is is like plastic it's it's can be molded. So

478
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: let's say there's been an area of your brain where

479
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: someone had an injury or a stroke or something. You

480
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: could sort of mold another part of the brain to

481
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: to fill the game, compensate, compensate, Yeah, exactly. You know.

482
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: Take so if it was motor strength, for example, on

483
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: the right side of your body that was affected, cells,

484
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: brain cells that normally don't do motor function, they're not

485
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: responsible for motor function, could be recruited to do that

486
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: sort of work. Or a sense. You know, even if

487
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: you lose a sense, other senses can start to become

488
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: heightened or even create, right. You hear that with blind people,

489
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of a heightened uh sense of

490
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: I guess all kinds of senses, right, that compensate for

491
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: the fact that you can't see exactly and that and

492
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: that is a that is a It's an amazing concept.

493
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: It's what sort of gives real birth to physical therapy,

494
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: to cognitive therapy. We're using these therapies to basically recruit

495
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: neurons from other parts of your brain to do something.

496
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: The human is so amazing, isn't it. It continues to

497
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: wonder and delight me every day. And I've been thinking

498
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: about this for forty years, you know, I love it.

499
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: Um Neurogenesis is the growth of new brain cells. So

500
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: this this, this, this flies in the face of what

501
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: we were all told when we were young, that you

502
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: only have a certain number of brain cells and that's it.

503
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: This is basically saying you can create new brain cells

504
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: at any age. The metaphor I think that may make

505
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: it more more accessible, is right now, our COVID life

506
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: is kind of like how our brain operates. And what

507
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: I mean is that you probably are at home. You

508
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: may drive to the grocery store. Maybe you drive to

509
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: a couple of different places and you but you're not

510
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: You're you're mostly in in just a small, small square

511
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: sort of area of place. You know how to get

512
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: to all those places really well. You could drive there

513
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: with your eyes closed, no problem. But but you you're

514
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: not traveling around the rest of the world. You're not

515
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: even traveling around the rest of the state right now.

516
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: That's kind of how our brains are. We use our

517
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: whole brain, but the time we're using our brains. That's

518
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: the thing. If you start to actually do things to

519
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: inspire neurogenesis in your brain, it's kind of like building

520
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: new cities and visiting those new cities in your brain.

521
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a it's a little bit of a

522
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: simplistic metaphor, but it makes me really happy to think

523
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: about because visiting other places in your brain is an

524
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: incredibly joyous thing. You start to see patterns that you

525
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: would have otherwise missed. You connect dots, you're thinking is clearer,

526
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: and and and that's the whole concept of of of

527
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: what neurogenesis can do for you. When we come back

528
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: Sanche's advice on how to keep our brains strong, especially

529
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: as we age. We'll take me on a trip, do

530
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: and how can I visit these new places in my brain?

531
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: Because this is really exciting And um, I know your

532
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: book has a lot of recommendations for ways that we

533
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: can encourage neurochantesis. So what do I do? Son J? Yeah,

534
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: so you know. The way I'll tell you the way

535
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: that I wrote the book was I took all these

536
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: these neuroscience concepts and try to make them accessible and

537
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: also help you set up a substrate for your brain

538
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, how you nourish yourself, how

539
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: you rest your brain, things like that. So the basics

540
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: are there, but your question is more about taking the

541
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: trip and building the new brain cells. So after you

542
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: sort of you know, make sure and it's not challenging

543
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: to get to the right sort of place in terms

544
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: of your diet, you know, uh, and and the amount

545
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: of rest that you need. That's important. But the biggest

546
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: I think difference with growing new brain cells versus how

547
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: we typically think about strengthening our brain is that you

548
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to just keep doing the same things

549
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: over and over again. The whole practice makes perfect sort

550
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: of teaching the killing drill sort of teaching that a

551
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: lot of schools focus on. It's important to to understand

552
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: and and be able to learn concepts. But that's kind

553
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: of like those roads I was talking about that you

554
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: travel so well, that's like getting even better at traveling

555
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: those same roads. Now you can really do with your

556
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: eyes closed. Now you know it's it's it's totally second

557
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: nature to you. But if you were to do different things,

558
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: totally different things, things that get you out of your

559
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: comfort zone a little bit, a totally different sort of hobby,

560
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: that's when you're starting to actually build some of these

561
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: new brain cells, create some of these new cities, create

562
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: some of the new roads, whatever, whatever metaphor you want

563
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: to apply to it. That's that's a much better way

564
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: to sort of do that versus the practice makes perfect.

565
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: So if practice makes perfect, change is what's going to

566
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: build the neurogenesis. It's going to build the resili and

567
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: redundancy in your brain. So I played the piano. Should

568
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: I not focus as much on the piano because I

569
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: thought about taking lessons even though I took for ten

570
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: years and I played by ear, But I enjoyed the piano,

571
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: And we actually have a beautiful piano that Jay and

572
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 1: I bought each other for our birthdays back in the day. Yeah,

573
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: and but but should I learn how to play the

574
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: guitar or the viol The violence sounds just horrible if

575
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: you're not good at it. But what do you mean,

576
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: should I try a new instrument? Yeah? You know, so

577
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: I asked a lot of neuroscientists about this, because one

578
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: thing about writing a book like this is that it

579
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: affects everybody, right, So even the guys and gals who

580
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: are who are doing all this research, they're thinking about

581
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: what to incorporate into their own lives. And there are

582
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: a couple of things that sort of jumped out at me.

583
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: One is that something new is I think really important.

584
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: That's that's that that is a key, But something that

585
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: you can also use your hands with that you're actually

586
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: activating your motor motor cortex as you're doing, seems to

587
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: be even more beneficial. So so an instrument is great,

588
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: um painting, Try a new one because a new one? Yes,

589
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: I mean I mean the piano again. I want to

590
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: be careful here. I did this Bill Clinton. I was

591
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: talking to him about brain health the other day and

592
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: he got on my case because he said he loves

593
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: crossword puzzles, and he's like, so you tell me crossword

594
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: puzzles are not good for No, No, I'm not saying

595
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: don't do those things. But understand what you're accomplishing. You

596
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: are you are. You're paving those roads really really well

597
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: on your brain, and that is great, there's great value

598
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: in that. But if it is true that you can

599
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: build all these new roads, and the question you're asking

600
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: me is how to do that, then it would be

601
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: it would mean doing something different. So I'm not saying

602
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: stop playing the piano, keep driving those roads, but if

603
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: you want to start going on these trips around your brain,

604
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: doing something different, and preferably doing it in a way

605
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: that maybe even a little uncomfortable. So if you're painting,

606
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: and I just bring up painting, because this is the

607
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: one that came up set all times among these neuroscientists.

608
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: Learn how to paint. I'm a terrible artist. Learn how

609
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: to paint, do whatever you can, and do it with

610
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: your non dominant hand. Yes, this was another. In fact,

611
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: they went so far as to say that tonight at dinner,

612
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: when you're eating your dinner, try eating your meal with

613
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: your non dominant hand. And just see what happens. And

614
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, Katie, because we think of building the

615
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: brain means reading books and gaining new knowledge, and that's true,

616
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: but in terms of actually creating neurogenesis, it's more like

617
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: you think about a physical workout. I'm gonna do something

618
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: different and I'm going to actually now focus the less

619
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: side of my brain, which normally isn't doing motor function.

620
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: That's delicate or fine. On actually doing that sort of stuff,

621
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: it has real relevance because again, you're you're actually building

622
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: these roads in these cities in your brain, and that's fun.

623
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: Try it. It's fun. But on a more practical level.

624
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: To your original question, Let's say one day the road

625
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: that you drive so well becomes locked by one of

626
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: these amyloid plaques that we're talking about, some of these tangles.

627
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: Right now, you know that road really well, but you

628
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: know what, you don't really have other roads to get

629
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,240
Speaker 1: from point A to point B. If you've been building

630
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: all these roads by painting with your left hand and

631
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: spilling your food, but by eating with your non dominant hand,

632
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, you're actually building roads. This gets

633
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: back to the bypass analogy. Do you still have flacks

634
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: and tangles in your brain. Yes, So are these the

635
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: cognitive reserves that you're talking about, Yes, the cognitive reserves,

636
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: the cognitive resiliency, which is often they often use these

637
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: terms interchangeably, but that's exactly it. We have the capacity

638
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: to to have significant cognitive reserve. We're barely tapping into that.

639
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: If you look at societies around the world where people

640
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: are living into their nineties and hundreds and have hardly

641
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: any dementia. The presumption now is that if you were

642
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: to image their brains, they might have plaques and tangles.

643
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: If you're doing autopsy, they may be diagnosed with all Heimers,

644
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: because that's how Alzheimer's was diagnosed, was that autopsy. But

645
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is that during their lives

646
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: they had perfectly normal cognitive function. Before we talk about

647
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: your twelve week program, I'm just curious in terms of

648
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: diagnostic advances and and therapeutic advances. I mean, will we

649
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: get to a point where someone can have a brain

650
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: scan and say, Okay, here's the status of your tangles

651
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: and plaques, and here's what you need to do. Because

652
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: brain imagery, you know, I've ways found it so interesting

653
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: even when you talk about like antidepressants and you know,

654
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: serotonin reuptake inhibitors or whatever they're called ss is. Yeah,

655
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: that that you know, there was never a way until

656
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: recently to kind of measure how the brain was reacting.

657
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: They would just kind of it would be very anecdotal,

658
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: you kind of throw it against the wall to see

659
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: what sticks. And now we have so much better brain imagery.

660
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: So will that translate into dimension all time person and

661
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: preventative strategies that we could follow. I think, I think so.

662
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're making a lot of progress on

663
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: brain imaging, and you're absolutely right. I mean, the brain

664
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: has long been sort of considered this black box only

665
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: measured by its inputs and its outputs. You really couldn't

666
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: get a good idea of its internal machinery. But now

667
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: we can. I mean, I don't know that we're at

668
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: the point yet where we can determine degree of severity

669
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: of of dementia based on a scan, and as I

670
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: think we will. We think we'll get to that point.

671
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: I think we'll get to the point where we can

672
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: very quantifiably measure the burden of plaques and tangles and

673
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: other things in the brain. But well, but Again, what

674
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: I think is so extraordinary, Katie, is that you could

675
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: have two people with the exact same scan essentially and

676
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: very different clinical pictures. One person may be completely debilitated,

677
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: obviously having dementia, and the other person may be functionally

678
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: cognitively normal. And again, I look, do I don't want

679
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: to I don't want to have flax and tangles in

680
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: my brain. But mostly what I don't want to have

681
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: is the cognitive dysfunction that comes with that. It's a

682
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: different way of thinking. It really is, like I think, again,

683
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: we focus so much on making someone's images look better

684
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, and what the person really wants is them

685
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: to be better, and there are ways to do that,

686
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, with lifestyle changes. I mean, I'm a neurosurgeon

687
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: saying this, by the way, just remember that because I'm

688
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: a specialist. That's that's what I was trying to do.

689
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: And yet I'm now becoming increasingly convinced that these types

690
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: of changes that we talked about in this book really

691
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: can can prevent you from developing the symptoms I was

692
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: going to say. So you're saying that brain scans are

693
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: just part of the story. It's sort of like it's

694
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: half of the story because even with them, you could

695
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: have these cognitive reserves developed and be very asymptomatic. Well,

696
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about this twelve week program. Sharp take us

697
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: through this deeps because I'm all ears. It's it's twelve

698
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: weeks where I basically based on how I think your

699
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: brain is going to change and and react to things

700
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: that you're now doing that are different or new. Um,

701
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: it all sort of builds on itself. I start off

702
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: by really making sure you get the basics right, and

703
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: I'll tell you it's it's not that complicated. There are

704
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: a few big messages in terms of the overall getting

705
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: it the substrate right, and as you might guess, diet

706
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: nourishment is one of them. But but the big the

707
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: big takeaway here is I think generally people know what

708
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 1: a healthy diet is, and for those who don't, there's

709
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: some information in there about what's specifically healthy for the brain.

710
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: There are some distinctions between the brain and the body

711
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: in this regard. One is one is sugar. Um. You know,

712
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: we we we talk a lot about sugar, and people

713
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: know that they shouldn't need too much sugar. We used

714
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: to get sugar, you know, twice a year when fruit

715
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: fell from the trees. Even honey was protected by the bees.

716
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: And now we're eating a hundred and thirty pounds a

717
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: year on average of sugar. But what was what was

718
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: a learning point for me was that the brain is

719
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: exquisitely sensitive to sugar. So typically you eat a lot

720
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: of sugar and you think, well, that's being absorbed into cells.

721
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: I have a lot of energy, whatever it might be.

722
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: These these are these are a lot of calories that

723
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: are now providing the energy the brain. As soon as

724
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: sugar levels get beyond a certain point, and it's a

725
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: pretty narrow range, the receptors basically shut down. So you

726
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: could run into a situation where you're taking in a

727
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: lot of calories, a lot of energy, and starving your

728
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: brain at the same time. And that that is a

729
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: situation that leads to a whole a whole cascade of

730
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: events that you can pretty easily avoid. So that's you know,

731
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: as much as I talk about in the first few

732
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: weeks of what to do, there are several things that

733
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,959
Speaker 1: you're told not to do just to avoid and that's

734
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: that's more than half the battle, and they're not that

735
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: hard to do. I also try to make the case

736
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: for things like sleep, which you've read a lot about

737
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: I've read a lot about, but reminding people just how

738
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 1: metabolically active the brain is during sleep, and this wonderful

739
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: conversation that I'm having with you right now will be

740
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: encoded into my hippocampus if I get good sleep tonight,

741
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: so that twenty years from now I can recall this

742
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: and remember it. A lot of times people say that

743
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: they can't remember something. It's not that they can't remember that,

744
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: it's not that they forgot it, it's that they never

745
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: actually stored it in their memory centers in the first place.

746
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: So these are strategies to help that. But then, you know,

747
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: sort of the midpoint of the book is really about

748
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: and the the evidence based things that we know improve

749
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: brain health. Starts off by asking you to define what

750
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: you think a healthy brain is. What is a healthy brain?

751
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: We know what a healthy heart is, it pumps a

752
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: certain amount of blood out with each beat. What is

753
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: a healthy brain? You know? And and I spend a

754
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: little bit of time talking through talking the reader through

755
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: how they define that, because it is different for different people.

756
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: Robert Zapolski, who is this evolutionary biologist, I was interviewing him,

757
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: and he and her forget. He said to me that

758
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: a healthy brain is a is a is a brain

759
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: that has a bigger circle of you, is what he said,

760
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: which basically means you let more people into your circle.

761
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: Now why is that relevant. Well, it's relevant in you know,

762
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: ancient times because you were more likely to be protected

763
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 1: by the group. But now it's this idea of what

764
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: true connection does for for protection of the brain. And

765
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: and and now to your earlier point, measurable. You know,

766
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: a lot of what we talked about is based on

767
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: objective data that we couldn't collect some time ago. But

768
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: I will tell you something fascinating because I find this

769
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: this topic really interesting. But there's this loneliness researcher named

770
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: Stephanie Cacciope. She's an oregan. I know. I at the

771
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: in Chicago. Her husband was one of the pre eminent

772
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: scientists about memory, and then he died, died, I know.

773
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: And now she's an oregan. And I talked to her

774
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: from time to time. It's been tough, as you might imagine.

775
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: And she's by herself an Oregon, which you know, has

776
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: a loneliness. Researchers through this pandemic has been such a

777
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: significant thing for her. But she said this thing to

778
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: me that I'll never forget, and and and I talk

779
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: a little bit about it in the book, which is

780
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: we talk about connection, like right now, you and I

781
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: get to zoom and have this call about you know this,

782
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: this conversation that's very interesting to me. Most connections that

783
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: we have with friends, maybe even family to some extent,

784
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: are pretty cursory. How you doing, I'm doing fine. How

785
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: you doing, I'm doing fine. You know. It's it's how

786
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: do you get to a level of more profound connection,

787
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: because it wasn't. As you've well heard, it's not about

788
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: the number of connections you have. It's about the quality.

789
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: But what does that mean quality? And one thing Stephanie

790
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: said to me was a sort of shortcut to building

791
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: the quality and the high intensity connection is to be vulnerable,

792
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: to ask for help, to share your problems, which is

793
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: totally counterintuitive to how I think about things. I would

794
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: rather not burden somebody with things. But I took it

795
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: to heart. And I was talking my parents, who are

796
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: in their late seventies in Florida through this pandemic, and

797
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: we were having those conversations how you do and how

798
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: the girls. That was the conversation for months, and I

799
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: said to them, I asked them a question about a

800
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: problem I was having one of my cars that my

801
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: wife's car had some smoke coming from the hood. They're

802
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: both engineers, and for days, Katie, we started to have

803
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: these really interesting conversations about cars, about their history of

804
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: being interested in engineering, in all this stuff, figure out

805
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: the way to build the meaningful connection um that that is.

806
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: That is probably one of the most critical points, and

807
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: and they're there pretty easy ways to do it. I

808
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: think the point is connection, deep connection is good for

809
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: your brain, yes, and good for you, and I think

810
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: you know it's good for you in general. So the

811
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: last part of the twelve week program, I'll just tell

812
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: you quickly, is more about what we started talking about initially,

813
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: which is, then, how do you create Now that I've

814
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: primed your brain for neurogenesis, giving you all the right

815
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: amounts of the right hormones, not too much epinephrin, but

816
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: enough oxytocin, and all that sort of is happening by

817
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: going through the first few weeks of the program, Now

818
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: how do you build the new brain cells? And that

819
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: gets to a lot of what we're talking about in

820
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: terms of that cognitive reserve. You know, actually, um uh,

821
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: doing these different types of activities, doing similar activities in

822
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: a totally different way, doing things with different people, doing

823
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: them in at different times, eliminating certain things completely from

824
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: your regiment for a while, adding in something totally unrelated.

825
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: It's it was fascinating to me. I tried it. I

826
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: based this entire thing on my conversations with these neuroscientists

827
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: who all tried it and written about it and published

828
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: it in journals. It's fun, It's a fun ride. I

829
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: was gonna say, so, give me some ideas real quickly

830
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: before we go about things I could do. Should I

831
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: take a pottery class, Should I learn Italian? Should I

832
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: pick up the guitar? What should I do? I think that,

833
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, I think the two big ingredients are it's

834
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: would be something you really haven't done before. This isn't

835
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: about trying to again build a two lane highway where

836
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: you're used to driving one. This is about getting to

837
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: you know, to Italy instead of staying in New York

838
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: or or going somewhere even different in Argentina, you know,

839
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 1: totally different. If you can do something that involves your

840
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: your your hands, like pottery or painting. Even better, that

841
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: was something that came up over and over again. And

842
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: then the second ingredient, I guess, and this is a

843
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: little bit more vague, is that it's it's good if

844
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: it makes you a little uncomfortable. I And I know

845
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: that sounds almost euphemistic or too easy or too simple,

846
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: but the whole point is that when you start to

847
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: release certain hormones in the body, like some stress hormone,

848
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: stress can be good. It really helps that process of neurogenesis.

849
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: So a little bit of discomfort with something totally new,

850
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: preferably using your hands, that's a pretty good prescription. Before

851
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: we go, can you tell me about foods that are

852
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: healthy brain foods? I know that you hear about fish,

853
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: you hear about nuts, you hear about extra virgin olive oil.

854
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: Are all those things sort of good brain food? And

855
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: what else should I be eating other than staying away

856
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: from the cupcakes? Yeah? Nor Yes, definitely the sugar thing

857
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: I mentioned already, So I mean that's just that's just

858
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: a I think you could accomplish sev of all the

859
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: other things by basically just eliminating added sugar from your diet.

860
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: But I think the adage what is good for the

861
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: heart is good for the brain remains true. But I

862
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: think with the brain there are a few a few distinctions.

863
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: One is, if an apple a day keeps a doctor away,

864
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: then berries are what's good for the brain. Berries really

865
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: good data around berries. Really start to add berries into

866
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: your diet. I think that's one of the big ones.

867
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: And while most of the neuroscientists did not advocate a

868
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: caloric restriction diet, necessarily a calorie reduced diet overall to

869
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: the extent that you can do it. We create a

870
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: lot of metabolic byproducts from from overeating, and a lot

871
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: of those metabolic byproducts get accumulated in the brain. So

872
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: if you can cut down on the amount of energy

873
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: that has to be metabolized in that way, you can

874
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: make a lot of progress. Even though berries may be

875
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: good for your brain. You don't believe in this whole

876
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: idea of supplements or superfoods, do you, now? I you know.

877
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: I think super food first of all, is a really

878
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,479
Speaker 1: vaguely defined term. As part of this book, I asked

879
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and I even talked to your

880
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: friend Mark Hyman about this as well. It's it doesn't

881
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't have a really objective meaning. There are some

882
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: foods that are maybe better than others. But I think

883
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: the thing about supplements that struck me was was the

884
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: idea that for certain people who have deficiencies, then supplementing

885
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: that part of their diets important. But you know, Katie,

886
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: in this country, and I'm not advocating this, but in

887
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: this country, even the standard American diet, like if you

888
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: go to a McDonald's, even the food is largely fortified,

889
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, with all these different vitamins and micronutrients and

890
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: things like that. That that is a decision that our

891
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: US d A made decades ago to fortify food so

892
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: that people wouldn't develop basic nutritional deficiencies. So oftentimes we're

893
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: supplementing something that doesn't need to be supplemented. A lot

894
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: of a lot of the approaches more in terms of

895
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: what you're not eating versus what you are eating, and

896
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: that that you know that holds up to be true.

897
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: So berries I single out because they are one of

898
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: these foods whose active ingredients are particularly good at crossing

899
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: the blood brain barrier, particularly good at creating these scaffoldings,

900
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, for the neurogenesis that we talked about earlier,

901
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: So I put that high on the list. But what

902
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: about you know, I see this stuff in the drug

903
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: store and I'm like, Oh, should I be taking like

904
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: privig in or should I be taking what is it like?

905
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: Almost isn't it like jellyfish to run derivatives and stuff?

906
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: And I'm like, should I be doing that? Well? You know,

907
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: I the privileged one is interesting because you know, Eric

908
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: Kendell is very involved with this, and he's a very

909
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: prominent neuroscientists did a lot of the original jellyfish research

910
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: basically trying to figure out where the memory stores were

911
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: in jellyfish, how jellyfish remembered, and isolating those stores and

912
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: basically creating a supplement. It's a fascinating idea. I don't

913
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: know that it really works. I mean, it's very hard

914
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: to study this sort of thing. You know, it takes

915
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: decades long studies to prove that something like that's improving memory.

916
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: What we do have is is decades long data on

917
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: societies around the world where dementia is essentially so rare

918
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: that it's reportable. You know, if somebody developed dementia, you'd

919
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: report that in the medical journal. But my my point

920
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: is though that with these we don't need to have

921
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: the supplements. We know it's possible to be done because

922
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: we see it having already transpired real time and large

923
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: societies across the world, and in those societies, you know,

924
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: I took the neuroscientific data that we had and tried

925
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: to see, are are they in some ways applying that unwittingly?

926
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: I mean they didn't read these papers obviously, but were

927
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: they sort of just by default essentially following that that

928
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: right diet, following that right amount of movement, following the

929
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: right amount of rest. So movement, for example, I'll just

930
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: tell you this was an interesting one. If you look

931
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: at movement, it's probably the only thing that has has

932
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: the longest amount of evidence behind it in terms of

933
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: actually creating neurogenesis. All of this is new research, but

934
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: that that's sort of the oldest new research. But what

935
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: was fascinating to me was that what does movement mean

936
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: to people? Right? I use the word movement instead of exercise,

937
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: because what they found was that moderate movement, brisk walking

938
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: that tended to be a lot better for neurogenesis than

939
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 1: intense exercise. Now, why would that be Well, it turns

940
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 1: out that when you briskly exercise, you're releasing a lot

941
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: of what is known as brain derived neurotrophic factor. That's

942
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of like the miracle grow for for your brain.

943
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: As was described, if you are intensely exercising, you also

944
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: tend to release a lot of epinephrin and epinefrin is

945
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: actually a blocker. It's a it's a cascade blocker of

946
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: what b d NF, this neurotrophic factor does. I know,

947
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm throwing a lot of language at you, but I'm FOLLI.

948
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: Intense exercise may be great for your heart and you know,

949
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: maybe even weight loss, whatever your goals. Maybe, but for

950
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: your brain, intense exercise actually is not good and you

951
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: find that can actually be a little bit destructive by

952
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: releasing these stress hormones that block the beneficial effects that

953
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: exercise should have on your brain. I never knew that,

954
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: and it so like I think. I go for a

955
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: walk as often as I can with Rebecca. Now, that

956
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: wasn't something I did. I was out there thinking, I

957
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: got forty minutes, I'm gonna go hard. That was my

958
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: sort of approach, and sometimes I still feel the need

959
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: to do that. But walking is great. Brisk here here,

960
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: here's the best way to do it. If you want

961
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: to just make it for your brain. Take a brisk

962
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: walk would a close friend or family member and talk

963
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: about your problems, and that sort of brings all these

964
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: things together in some ways that we've been talking about.

965
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: Take your take your you're very smoothie with you, and

966
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: you've pretty much nailed it. I'm curious about social media

967
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: and the way we live our lives. You know, we're

968
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: constantly distracted, we have constant incoming information, our attention spans

969
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: have shortened. I read a fascinating study a while ago

970
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: that said the part of your brain I think it's

971
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: a hypocampus you can correct me if i'm wrong, responsible

972
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: for for creativity. It only fires up when you're bored.

973
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: And that's why you have so many great ideas when

974
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: you're in this shower, when you're not distracted, or when

975
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: you're taking a long walk and you don't have your

976
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: phone with you. And I'm curious the impact of all

977
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: this mental stimulus or stimuli has on nerroa genesis and

978
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: keeping our brains healthy. You know, yeah, okay, that that

979
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: that's a It's a great topic and I approach it

980
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: as a person who wrote this book frankly, also as

981
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: a dad three teenage girls, because and this is conversation

982
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: topic number one in our household all the time. And

983
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: I'll tell and I'll tell you two things that actually

984
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: came out of a dinner time conversation I recently had.

985
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: Um And I try not to be too preachy with

986
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: with my girls, although sometimes I can say I don't

987
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: use this line often, but I can say I did

988
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: write a book about that. The girls hate it when

989
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: I do that, but it's true, and I can use

990
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: that as a wild card to actually get them to

991
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: listen to what I'm saying about the fact that when

992
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: you are distracted like that and you think maybe even

993
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: you are multitasking, the brain is actually not that good

994
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: at multitasking. It actually requires a lot of energy to

995
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: shift back and forth between things, between scrolling through your

996
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: social media feed, trying to have a conversation, trying to

997
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: look your dad in the eye when he's talking to you,

998
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: whatever might be. It's a it's hard to transition back

999
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 1: and forth between all these things. We think we're being efficient,

1000
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: and we're not, because the amount of energy it takes

1001
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: to actually make the switch is a lot higher than

1002
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: we realized. That's kind of novel thinking because you know,

1003
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: it's always been about multitasking. How many things can I

1004
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,479
Speaker 1: do at the same time. But the second thing, which

1005
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: I think is, you know I worry about the most,

1006
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: and I think is what you're saying as well. Is

1007
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: that leaving aside just the content on social media for

1008
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: a second, and just the fact that it's so incessant,

1009
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: Like you're saying, we talk about stress and on the

1010
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 1: brain and on the body. Stress in and of itself

1011
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: is not the enemy. I mean, in fact, we need stress.

1012
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: I was a little nervous to do this podcast with

1013
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: you today because I have so much respect for you.

1014
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: But it makes me a little stressed because I have

1015
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: that nervousness. But it's good. I need that because I

1016
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: prepared for this. But the problem is that we can't

1017
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: get a break from the stress. Social media screens, the

1018
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: incessant nature of it make it very difficult for us

1019
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: to ever turn the stress off. We don't want to

1020
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: turn it off completely or never have it. That would

1021
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: not be a worthy or or possible goal. But we

1022
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: don't get breaks from it. And that's what I worry

1023
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: about the most. With with my girls, myself to some extent,

1024
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: although I'm much more aware of it. But that's what

1025
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: I worry about, Katie. So you're saying that it's really

1026
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: important to put the phones down, put them away, even

1027
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: studies that show if it's on a table, it's distracting

1028
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 1: by its very presence, because you can't have a deep,

1029
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: focused conversation with that thing in your line of sight,

1030
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: right that that that the distraction, just the presence of it,

1031
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, it takes you away from from

1032
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: being in the moment. And again, I know some of

1033
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: this sounds so euphemistic, but and maybe you've heard it

1034
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 1: all before, but now the data is there. I mean,

1035
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the smartphone has only really been around since

1036
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: two thousand five, Katie. I mean you think about that

1037
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: fifteen years, and it's not that long, and we've had

1038
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: some of the biggest behavioral shifts ever recorded in human

1039
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: history during that time. You talk about kind of constant stress,

1040
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: and you need stress in them recovery. I guess that's

1041
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: because your your brain is producing too much cortisolve, right,

1042
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the stress hormone or is it doing a

1043
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 1: lot of other stuff of physiologically. I think I think

1044
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: the thing that that is becoming clear is that the

1045
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: absolute amount may not be as important as how long

1046
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: your selves are are sort of exposed to the to

1047
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: the stress hormone, you can have these amazingly high spikes.

1048
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: And they saw this, uh in people fighter pilots, people

1049
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: who are in these incredible situations for periods of time,

1050
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: really high spikes, so high in fact, that the blood

1051
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: vessels in the back of their eyes would change. They

1052
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: would have to account for blurinus of vision because they're

1053
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: they're they're a benefference spikes so high. But when they

1054
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: weren't in that situation, they had incredibly low levels of stress,

1055
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: really high heart rate variability. Heart rate variability is a

1056
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,439
Speaker 1: really interesting measure of this because if you have high

1057
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: heart rate variability, that's good. That means that means your

1058
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: your your blood vesseles aren't clamped down by all the

1059
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: stress hormones. They're they're kind of loose and can the

1060
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: variability is good. And so it wasn't the spikes in

1061
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: in cortisol, epineffer and other stress hormones as much as

1062
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: it was them staying plateaung at an at an unreasonably

1063
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: high level. Interesting when it comes to stress. In closing,

1064
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: because I've kept you far too long Sunday, but I

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00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: could talk to you all day. Is what is the

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00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: impact of this year plus of really for many people,

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00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: this constant stress, And how is that going to, in

1068
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: your view, affect us in terms of collective trauma? You know,

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00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: we we have we have pretty pretty good data on

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00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: what these stress hormones in prolonged periods of time due

1071
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: to the brain um we've you know, we're, we're. That's

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00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: been documented now in all sorts of different studies. Nothing

1073
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: quite like this, obviously, because this is so unique, and

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00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: that's why I still preface by saying I don't know

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00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: for sure. With great humility, I try and answer some

1076
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: of these questions, but I think there will be an impact.

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00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: But I think that we've also learned that we can

1078
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: grow new brain cells, though we can recover from that.

1079
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: We can create situations where it doesn't become such a

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00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: incessant memory that that it basically leads to post traumatic stress,

1081
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: which is a real concern as well. There will be

1082
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: people that have significant amounts of post traumatic stress, but

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00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: our ability to treat that, to recognize it is better

1084
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: than before, and our ability to to build new brain

1085
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: cells to help compensate. Is better than before, so impact significant,

1086
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: but solutions you know emerging as well. So it is

1087
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: possible to heal. I hear you say it is possible

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01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: to heal, and and we we we've seen it before,

1089
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:16,479
Speaker 1: you know, with other even other pandemics. A huge thank

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01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: you to my friend Dr Sanjay Gupta, who you can

1091
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: watch on CNN or listen to on his daily podcast

1092
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: Coronavirus Fact or Fiction. His new book, by the way,

1093
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: is called Keep Sharpe, How to Build a Better Brain

1094
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: at any age. And I want you all to know

1095
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: I just ate breakfast using my left hand. Next Question

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01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: with Katie Kurik is a production of My Heart Media

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01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic,

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01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate

1099
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: producers Derek Clements, Adriana Fassio, and m Lee Pinto. The

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01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more

1101
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: information about today's episode, or to sign up for my

1102
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: morning newsletter wake Up Call, go to Katie Currect dot com.

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01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: You can also find me at Katie Currect on Instagram.

1104
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: And on my social media channels. For more podcasts from

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01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

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01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.