WEBVTT - 114: Fan Cams & CHAZ Fans 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.840 It's ten forty six pm at the chairs and you're 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:17.360 listening to Nightcall. Hello, and welcome to Nightcall, a podcast 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.080 for artist Tope in reality. My name is Emily Rashida 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.560 and with me on the other line is Molly Lambert 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.960 and joining us this week, we have our producer Joel 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.280 because Test is out, so he sitting in the virtual 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:38.120 third seat. Yes, so we wanted to kick things off 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.920 with a night email that we got from a listener 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.720 regarding our episode a couple of weeks back. This emails 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:49.160 from Kathleen. Kathleen writes, I was really hoping you guys 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.640 would address the Launa del Rey conversation from a few 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.560 weeks ago on this week's pod, but no, dice. I've 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.120 listened to the podcast from almost the beginning and I 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.560 like it a lot, but the law of conversation did 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.320 not sit well with me at all. I know that you, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.520 particularly Test, said that Lana was problematic for her posts 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.839 a few weeks ago throwing black women under the bus 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.600 and subsequent non apologies, but the way the conversation happened 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.399 made it sound like you are completely giving her a 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.160 pass for this behavior and essentially saying she's not smart. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.960 Enough to realize how bad she sucked up. She's thirty 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.240 four years old. There's truly no excuse for her behavior, 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.920 no pretending that, oh, she didn't really mean to only 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.640 call out black artists, not to mention that she dated 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:29.560 a cop for an extended amount of time, and her 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.520 name is an effort to exoticize herself. I was genuinely 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.320 floored by the conversation, especially since you've all been pretty 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.840 vocal about racial justice and police abolition since the protests started. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.600 I didn't even really want to listen to this week's episode, 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.120 but I wanted to see if you guys discussed this conversation. 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.600 I hope you will in the future. Again, I've listened 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.640 to the show for a while now, but from one 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.640 white but Latina woman to you all, the optics were bad. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.920 So first off, I want to say that we say 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.960 this after every night email a nightcall, but we really 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.040 appreciate this night email. Um. I think you know, we 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.840 don't have a whole lot of uh. I don't know, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.560 negative feedback, like you know, people calling us out for 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.480 things a lot, and when we do get it, it 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.920 just I don't know. I like being held accountable for 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.880 the stuff that we say on the show, it's like, 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.320 I feel like a great about of respect for a 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.440 night call listeners. So when we get stuff like this, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.080 it makes me like really want to think about what 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:35.240 we're saying on air. Yes, thank you listeners for holding 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:41.440 us accountable, because we sunk up sometimes and we're definitely 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.600 being very cavalier in that segment. And Emily was saying 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:52.520 that was maybe like three days before the protests started. Um, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.400 so we definitely are in a time where pop culture 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.160 is not divorced from reality. These two things are in 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:05.360 fact the same thing, and celebrities are not the people 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:10.440 anyone needs to be listening to primarily right now, especially 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.680 not Laana del Ray. I'm going to say, like as 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.280 a as a fan of hers, like I just don't 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.280 like and I think that she's proven to be, like 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.120 other artists have stepped up to be way more essential 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.280 people to follow and to listen to. If you're going 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.160 to listen to a celebrity about what's going on right 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.000 now in the country, um and police abolition and everything else. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:32.920 Like I mean, Laana del Ray had to be told 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:34.920 to take down a photo of protesters a couple of 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.280 days later, Like it's very clear she does not care. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.880 It is not actively a part of any sort of 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.960 activism moment. Yeah. I think also with this conversation which 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.800 I had gone back and listened to us um talking, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.400 I think it was maybe before we got this email. Yeah, 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:53.960 it was like a week before we got this email. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.440 For whatever reason, I was listening back to this conversation 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.400 and thinking about it and what I know that we 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.080 got into it kind of accidentally. We hadn't actually planned 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.800 on talking about Londa Delray that week, and then we 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.800 did anyway because it's like interesting and we all wanted 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.960 to talk about it. But um, it's very interesting to 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.440 look at our conversation then to look at other writing 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.400 and other conversations that were had about that, and again 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:21.480 like three days before George Floyd was murdered, and um, 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.240 how much we kind of took that in as an 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.360 internet happening and kind of like a symptom of quarantine 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.000 cabin fever and people just feeling powerless and wanting to 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.400 just wanting to cancel somebody because like, what are we 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.120 gonna do? We're all stuck inside. But I think like 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.360 in a way it's like we got to see very 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:43.000 very quickly after that that energy and that frustration with 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.599 the status quo being used in like a very like 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.640 a bigger way, and like, I think, a more impactful 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.159 way than individual celebrity callouts, which I think are also 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.440 like a function of the culture and like something that 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.479 is like part of a healthy you know, dialogue between 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.000 people who consume art and artists. But I don't know, 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.760 I think it's like, I think that the change that 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.440 you saw in what was happening online from that week 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.800 to the next was really really fascinating and I think 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.920 positive overall. What do you what do you guys think? Um? 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:21.800 I was going to say, I feel like the cancelations 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.520 didn't stop either, but then we got to get bond up, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:29.320 the bond appetite stuff, which was also like very vindicating 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.400 and good, you know, and necessary. Yeah, even though it 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.520 was a largely online occurrence, it did feel like it 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.640 was like the conversation moved from being outward facing to 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.920 being sort of like inward facing for a lot of people. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.520 Can I ask you guys a question, Yeah, do you 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.120 guys feel like you gave one a del rate a pass? Yeah? Well, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.000 I don't think I was trying to say, like, we 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:53.760 give her a pass I think I was trying to say, like, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.559 if if you like didn't stop giving her a pass, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.039 like the first time she fucked up, you probably have 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.520 stopped like paying attention. I mean, not that you stopped 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.360 paying attention to like her funk ups, but that it's 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.280 like liking Woody Allen or something. You're like, no, I 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.320 know there's no actual, like legitimate excuse for this, but 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:21.000 you know it's sentimental or something. You know, it's I 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.760 will say, like I think I will cop up to 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.279 giving her a pass. And I also I think I 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.839 said something like the fact that she's naive, like it's 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.800 it was very naive of her to frame this conversation 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.680 and to list a bunch of non white artists and 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:41.000 to then beat Ariana Grande and yeah, yeah and Ariana Grande, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.320 and like a lot of people were like, she maybe 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.480 didn't know that Ariana Grande is white because Ariana Grande 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.279 like obscures her own race. Fake tann with a whole 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:57.080 other conversation. But I think the appropriation conversation, which is yeah, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:58.560 I mean that's what I was just saying. It's like 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.640 it's found appropriation, is like foundational Tolana del Rey, So 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:09.240 you know she she's super problematic as a human being, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.040 but yeah, do you give somebody a pass if you 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:17.000 like the music enough? Feels like a more pressing issue 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.280 right now. Well, this has been a conversation that's been 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.800 happening forever, Like you said about Woody Allen about Roman Polanski, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.720 like a bunch of different artists that you know are 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.160 problematic and like, and then there's such a wide range 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.120 of like what constitutes being problematic too, Like I think 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.040 the mistake I made personally was being like, well, like 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.680 she's bad, but like, she's not as bad as Joni 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.720 Mitchell who did blackface, and it's like obviously still very 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.200 much in the cannon, and like people don't talk about 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:48.000 that as a factor, and like why she should be canceled. 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.080 Although I feel free to cancel Joni Mitchell for that, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.800 it's in saying she got away with it um at all. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.240 And I think, uh, you can't do the sa adding 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.120 scale of you know, this isn't as bad as as 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.440 Roman Polanski, because there's a lot of people do stuff 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.400 that's bad in a microaggressive like a lot of things 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.360 that are in as bad as Roman Polanski at the 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.200 same time, and there's a lot of things that are 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.080 in as bad as r Kelly, and I think like 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:20.720 we're seeing the collapse of, like hopefully we're seeing the 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.680 collapse of white feminism at the same time as like 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.680 the Girl Bosses are all like sucking up really bad 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.320 and like you know, getting called out for being racist 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:34.360 because they're all like horrible white women, and then doing 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.520 this thing where they're like, now, I'm going to give 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.320 the company to like a more diverse staff and they 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.199 can deal with like all the mess I left, which 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.560 is also really fucked up, you know, like I abdicate responsibility. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.440 You guys deal with it and like fix all the 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.040 problems that we have. Well, I just was going to 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.000 get back to Joe World's original question on whether or 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.280 not we gave Lana a pass, and like I was, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.680 I was saying that, like I think that I did 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.480 as I said. I also think that this is kind 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.480 of part of something that maybe isn't the most like 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.840 I don't know. I I just in general think that 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.800 a lot of celebrities are really stupid, including one who's 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.800 whose art I like, And I am more interested in 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.680 the dismantling of like centering their opinions about things at all. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.480 And I think when I am a fan of somebody 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.080 like Laana del Ray who constantly is putting her foot 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.640 in her mouth and doing stupid ship, dating a cop, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.079 dating a cop for this, um, this live p D 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.520 show that just got canceled for for for murdering a 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:41.800 black man on camera or allegedly um. But I think 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.000 that I then have to do the mental work of like, well, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.200 how important is this person to me? Like how and 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.480 how much status do I give them in my estimation 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.120 of the world. And you know, I'm not playing Laana 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.120 del Ray records right now. I don't know if I 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.480 never will again. But it's just like I don't, I'm not, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.080 I'm not. I don't care about her right now, even 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.200 if somebody who's liked her music. You know, I was 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.760 just trying to situate her doing some racist ship in 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:17.320 the greater landscape of like musicians, a lot of famous 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.480 and and good musicians are fucked up people who have 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.000 done a lot of fucked up ship. Obviously a lot 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.320 of directors too. I personally don't feel like there's anything 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.920 to be accomplished by like taking those people out of 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.640 my iTunes. I just feel like that's like you know, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.200 I don't go out of my way, like I'm not 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.000 a Morrissey person, and I never have been, you know, 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.679 But I know Morrissey is another one of those people 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.480 where it's like he's uncancellable even though he's like super 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:51.679 openly racist. Um, people's sentimentality or nostalgia for him like 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:58.000 overpowers whatever consciousness of that you know, would stop them 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:02.160 from seeing him on tour. But I do think, yeah, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.000 I mean maybe we're talking about also it's like there's 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.600 a limited amount of funds in the attention economy, but 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.880 also in the real economy. There's so much to like 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.280 break down here because like, on the one hand, I 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.120 feel like Lana is the type of celebrity type of 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.199 person like wafy white girl who a lot of people 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.080 perceive as being not intelligent and therefore don't take anything 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.720 she has to say seriously, like period, and it's very 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:28.559 easy to brush off and be like, oh, there's Lana 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.320 again being wild. I think Lana does have like a 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.880 like a sizeable audience of like young, impressionable white women, 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.360 and I feel like when we call Laana out, we 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.679 can inform those girls in a way that is sometimes 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.760 uh not on their timeline. You know, they may not 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.560 even know who like Brianna Taylor is or anything like that. 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:52.520 And I think the other conversation is like when do you, like, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.720 do you separate the artist from the crime or the 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.480 the mentality, and like what's that line? And like, for me, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.880 that line is like R Kelly is a pretty hard 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.440 line my job, or like a lot of your songs 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.120 are about like the creepy, awful things you've done, and 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.080 so when I hear it, it like sense hills up 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:11.839 my spine and I don't want to hear and it 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.400 thing I certainly don't want to give them in any 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.199 kind of money, Like Lana, It's kind of hard because 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.160 it seems like, girl, this could easily be your aesthetic 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.360 in a way where you're actually doing like positive things, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:25.880 and it's frustrating to me that you're like, I'm hippie, 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.720 like sixties love childlike out here like just loving people 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.079 and being radical. And then it's like, you know what, 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.520 you're dating a cop, and on top of that, like 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.559 you don't know not to show faces on your huge platform. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.160 It's hard to want to support that or or even 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.720 be like, oh yeah, summertime, which is my jam I 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.360 can't even front like I love a said, like let's 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.520 go outside and smoke and date terrible men like very 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.600 It's like a deep l a aesthetic totally shake. But 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:56.240 it's just like I don't know if I want to 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.680 hear it right now. I feel you, and I feel 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.080 like the other deep la Is Dick is like a 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:08.600 superficial hippie white woman who you know, well like a 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:14.000 lot of like they all in West Hollywood. Um, but yeah, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.440 that thing, you know, where the hippie aesthetic has become 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.480 so divorced from the actual like politics of hippie doom, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.720 which um are an actual having a set you know. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.320 And there are people who argue that, like the Tenants. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.520 I read a conspiracy theory that was that acid was 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.360 invented by the CIA so that hippies would stop doing 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.640 protests and just like sit around self contemplating. Not a 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.800 bad theory, definitely not true, does not track, but good theory. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.840 You know, Timothy Larry was at Harvard. It's a good 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.240 theory because it does account for this sort of like 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.280 you know, what happened between the Chicago Convention and you 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:57.240 know the seventies that made people sort of stopped the 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:01.440 outward facing protesting activism part of being a hippie, and 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.520 it just became this other thing. Um. Obviously, now we're 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.959 seeing a moment where like it's coming back in this way, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.840 this totally organic way where people who never lived through 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.360 any of these other moments, you know, kids who weren't 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.320 even alive for the ninety two uprisings in l A, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.920 but who know like instinctively that you know this is 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.000 this is what needs to happen right now. It's just, um, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.040 it feels like, I don't know. I think. On the 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.560 other hand, it's like I'm I'm happy when those people 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.400 are like I'm going to educate myself rather than just 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.640 being like I'm going to double down on being racist 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.600 and ignorant. As somebody who has followed Lana for a 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.080 long time, this isn't her first breash with this sort 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.560 of controversy. And I mean there's like the time and 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.440 she was doubling down on playing a festival in Israel 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.280 and then like, and you can hear it both in 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.520 her public statements that she has made and then in 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.120 her music itself she has made reference to this, like 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:06.720 this idea of like, oh well, my contribution to the 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.040 suffering and injustice in the world is going to be 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.320 to like sing my songs about being sad and in love. 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.720 And I don't think that she should necessarily stop doing that, 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:22.479 but I think it's it's a very common celebrity, especially 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.760 white celebrity thing, to be like this is gonna be 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.880 what solves what like brings about world peace or something. 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.200 And and I think it's again super naive of her 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.040 um and and you see her and she that's the 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.160 doubling down that that that happened. I think after we 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.960 had our conversation, like the double triple down on this 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.240 is just she doubled down again by being like why 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.680 can fka Twigs do it? And I can't, And everybody 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.560 was like, oh my god, you're not bring up. I 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.840 feel like you even on Twitter like before that, you 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.680 were like like the obvious, like like like ifk Twigs 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.840 is like somebody who's like a good example of like 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.160 like you know, a kind of corollary a lot, And 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.360 then she like went and called her out too, and 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.400 it was like so little heard, but he was like 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:10.360 k Twigs is like a classically trained dancer who like technician, Yeah, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.280 like what she does on the poll is different than 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.280 what you do on the poll for like a lot 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.280 of reasons. And to be like, why is it different 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.960 and to think that it is like not benefiting you, 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:27.760 um is crazy. I was happy that Kailani called Laana 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.800 out about because it wasn't just that she posted protester. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.000 She posted looting and people were like, don't post this 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.880 is like your aesthetic, Like this is you know, these 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.920 are real people. You could get them in trouble um. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.880 And Kailani was like, you have to stop, and she 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.320 took it down. And yeah, I was thinking about Kailani 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.440 again because I love Kailani and I was like, it 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.480 shouldn't be Kailani's job to have to tell Laana not 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:59.360 to do that, you know. But just also the way 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.840 that Lanie know, the fact that Lana is like a 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.439 thirty four year old woman who's still sort of like 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:09.439 a girl child, uh presenting, and you know, Kelowny is 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.320 like twenty five and has lived the life, you know, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:18.440 and definitely gets treated as being like, you know, an adult. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.840 It's it's just like it's the the larger framework of 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:28.200 racism in the music industry that allows fragile white women 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.960 to get away with making themselves the victims. So yeah, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.320 we don't want to align ourselves with that connounce not 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:41.040 what this podcast is about. I yeah, I mean I definitely. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.000 I feel like there's a thing too where it's like, 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.800 after I watched the Michael Jackson documentary, I couldn't hear 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.800 Michael Jackson song without having that same like chill up, 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.760 my spine is up. I never need to hear this again. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.199 And then eventually it's just like you know, after the 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.800 initial exposure, you kind of get you see it again, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.879 and that's bad. I think it's also just part of 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.399 living in the world. I think when when we're having 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.760 these isolated conversations about things that artists have done or 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.680 or any kind of public figure has done. Um, you know, 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.439 the initial shock of it is real and visceral. In 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.679 many cases, like even in the case of the law 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.440 adul Ray thing, like I was like, come on, when 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.199 I was watching that third video of hers, was like 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.040 what And it's this feeling of like it's like, this 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.840 is why it shouldn't be this way, because it's like, 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.359 this is my friend who's sucking up in public and 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.760 it's fucked up that like I identify it like that 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.040 where I'm like, what are you doing? Like, um, that's 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.200 this is like the thing that I want to eradicate 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.320 from my mentality. It's like thinking of somebody like alt 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.439 Adulray is my friend, but um, well, I don't know. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.119 Don't you feel like it's just like an interviewer you 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.000 got you don't think of. I mean you know that 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.640 they're not really your friend, They're just like a stranger. 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.040 I don't know, you're the person who's who's interviewed LT 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.080 have me. I don't know. I mean I I have 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.480 that with some people for sure. But there's also you know, 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.919 there's a they're living in a markedly different reality for me, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.320 and I think especially somebody like Lana is not that 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.760 tuned into what's going on, and she's not following threads 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.560 on you know, um, how to protect yourself from the 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:23.960 um surveillance state and stuff when you're able. I have 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:29.680 seen so many Silver Lake moms getting like so hilariously 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.800 militant all of a sudden, and I, for one, and 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.480 for it, I think it's fine. You know, like everyone's 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:41.679 board their home with their families. Like read about the 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.600 government murdering the Black Panthers like some co intel pro yeah, 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.840 you know, like I think it's like the instinct is 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.399 just to like make fun of that. It's obviously my 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.639 instinct to make fun of that, even as like, you know, 0:19:54.760 --> 0:20:00.600 a white lady. But it's better than airying your head 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:02.440 in the sand and pretend it's not going on anymore. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.400 And I do think that a lot of people are 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.439 getting like radicalized in real time, and that is good. 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.080 You know, some people that were more center before COVID 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.639 and before the protests I am seeing move in a 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:21.359 sort of more like radical direction towards police abolition, and 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:27.760 that seems cool and unprecedented. It's getting it's getting reasonable, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.000 it's getting more and more normalized. I would not say 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.679 it's like fully normalized yet, but like I understand that 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.639 people who are like I've been here all along, where 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.560 the funk were? You? You know. It's but I think 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.680 that also just happens in in activism circles, where it's 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.600 like everybody like gets really excited to join, and then 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.800 you get burned out, and then you get excited again, 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.520 and then new people join and they're so excited and 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.760 you helped them in you know, like it's not Yeah, 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.919 I think like just to to to pivot slightly and 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.159 going off of this this night email about Lana like 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.800 and what we want to do as a show going forward, 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:07.720 I think, you know, we don't want to be those 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.080 sorts of people with their head in the sand about this, 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.840 and we want to be as informed and as possible 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.720 when we're talking about our dystopian reality, and also also 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:22.560 like the very hopeful and optimistic things that we see 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.800 happening in our world right now as well, Like we're 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:30.080 not edge lords and we're not cynics. So I think 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.359 we definitely just want to do better and be better, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.240 and we welcome more feedback about that as well as 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.239 just things you'd like to see us cover and UH 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.840 guests you'd like us to have on that maybe aren't 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.720 celebrity focused or pop culture focused, although we are going 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:49.880 to have a great interview later in the show about 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.640 celebrities and pop culture, but I think it's it's worth 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.120 your time. But yeah, we we took a week off 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.320 and we've just been doing a lot of thinking between 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.520 the three of us with Joel's help. I ups to 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:06.240 Joel about um, how to just be UH a more 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.800 thoughtful and responsible show and still fully nightcall as we 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.239 go forward. So as we've announced we're not doing our 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.920 theme months anymore, we're going to kind of get into 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:21.159 some different um timely slash relevant subjects right now and 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.160 also just try to like own up to our own 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:27.080 shortcomings and limitations in perspective and and and try to 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.280 do the best we can to to learn and be 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.240 better as two and a half white ladies talking about 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:39.159 occasionally current events and pop culture. So yeah, we just 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.160 want to be super honest with our listeners and we 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.600