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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and fifty.

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Speaker 1: We'll be interviewing Susanna Quincy, who works for a university

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Speaker 1: in London over in the UK and is in charge

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Speaker 1: of distance learning for them, the transition to distance learning

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Speaker 1: that they did this spring. She's going to talk about

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Speaker 1: that experience of having her job massively ramp up as

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Speaker 1: her whole university went online, as she was also dealing

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Speaker 1: with four children with no childcare. So good times. Lessons

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Speaker 1: learned on how to truly make work in life fit

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Speaker 1: together when both pieces are very stressful. So I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to that interview because I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: our listeners went through very similar things this spring, and

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Speaker 1: so I think we'll have a lot of people excited

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Speaker 1: about that. So this is airing in mid June. I

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Speaker 1: always love June. June is great in my part of

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Speaker 1: the world, probably less so in you're part of the

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Speaker 1: world right, so much less so. We've entered like what

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Speaker 1: I call monsoon season, and our house even managed to flood,

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Speaker 1: so we were in you know, honeysuckle and roses here,

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Speaker 1: and you know, days that are generally not too hot,

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Speaker 1: they get you know, eighties during the day, but nice

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Speaker 1: in the mornings and evening. So la la la. I'm

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Speaker 1: enjoying it. Also happy because our lockdowns are lifted to

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Speaker 1: at least some degree. We're officially, I mean we're recording

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Speaker 1: this before that, but officially we're out of lockdown on

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Speaker 1: June five, So lots of stuff starting back up, which

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Speaker 1: is great, very excited about that. You know, our summer

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Speaker 1: is looking different than it was originally. All our camps

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Speaker 1: wound up being closed, but we have a different situation

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Speaker 1: in general for the summer. Our longtime nanny is on

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Speaker 1: leave this summer, so we have a slightly different set

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Speaker 1: of hours. We've got summer nanny working for longer days,

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Speaker 1: so Monday through Thursday, and then my husband and I

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Speaker 1: are mostly splitting Friday. So that's been interesting for us,

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Speaker 1: and you know, kind of a cool situation to try

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Speaker 1: something different and seeing how the splitting is working. I'll

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Speaker 1: probably have to update, but he's been able to take

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Speaker 1: the morning more or less because a lot of places

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Speaker 1: do summer fridays anyway, so that he I mean, he

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Speaker 1: takes the morning to work and I take the afternoon

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Speaker 1: to work, because that's how you can block it in

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Speaker 1: sort of corporate world. So yeah, we've been experimenting with that,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of our listeners have also

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Speaker 1: been doing the splitting childcare, although in many cases for

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Speaker 1: many more days than we are doing here. So how

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Speaker 1: about you, Sarah, what's your summer looking like? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: from my work standpoint, things are ramping up back to

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Speaker 1: kind of normal. I'm still allowed to work remotely if

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Speaker 1: I choose to. I wonder if that will remain a

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Speaker 1: forever thing for some of my work that I do,

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Speaker 1: although who knows. But for my clinical work, I am

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Speaker 1: primarily back in the office, in part because I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: some patients in person, and in part because I do

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Speaker 1: have a resident with us, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: have the resident to come to my house and see

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Speaker 1: telemedicine from my bedrooms. So we yet in an office setting.

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Speaker 1: So things are just kind of slowly going back to normal,

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Speaker 1: except for the fact that, of course, you know, as

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Speaker 1: we're recording this, the school year is still coming to

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Speaker 1: a slow drawn out clothes and we're doing that virtually. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I sort of felt like I was

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Speaker 1: hitting a little bit of a wall this morning, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what it is. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know our nanny is fully more than capable of keeping

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Speaker 1: the kids occupied and well cared for during the day

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Speaker 1: while I'm at work, but there's a bit of a

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Speaker 1: mental block where I just feel like, especially as school

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Speaker 1: has gone on, just hasn't been an ideal supervision. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I was having like wild, crazy thoughts like maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: just take an entire year off of work. Then I'm like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I think you would be not happy not working and

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Speaker 1: spending your time supervising kindergarten zoom. So I'm just throwing

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Speaker 1: that out there. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be the

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Speaker 1: smartest move. I mean, it's a move, but not one

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Speaker 1: that I was seriously considering. But to even be having

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Speaker 1: those kinds of thoughts is odd for me. So I

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Speaker 1: guess I don't know. I just need a few days.

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Speaker 1: I need a few days before work is going well

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Speaker 1: and it feels rewarding again, and then maybe I will

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Speaker 1: feel better and I'm sure that will happen soon. That

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Speaker 1: will all right. Well, let's listen to what Susannah has

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Speaker 1: to tell us. We'll be back at the end of

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Speaker 1: this episode. Hi, Hi, Susana, welcome to Best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. Thank you. I'm delighted to

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Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, So tell our listeners a little bit

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Speaker 1: about you, Okay. So I am a mother of four.

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Speaker 1: I have a four year old, eight year old, twins

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Speaker 1: and a thirteen year old. Three girls and a boy.

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Speaker 1: Had to think there for a moment, I forget myself.

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Speaker 1: Once you get over a few kids, it's like how

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Speaker 1: many are there? And they've all got very long hair

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Speaker 1: at the moment as well, So you know what, my

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Speaker 1: poor son always gets mistaken for a girl. And I'm

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Speaker 1: also professor of Educational Development and director of Learning and

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Speaker 1: Teaching enhancement at City University of London wonderful, and so

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Speaker 1: prior to mid March we explained that Susannah has you know,

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Speaker 1: taken on a lot of extra work because of helping

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Speaker 1: her university go to online learning. But so prior to

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Speaker 1: mid March, what would your daily life have looked like?

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Speaker 1: So I worked part time, So I worked three long

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Speaker 1: days and then I had two days in the week

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Speaker 1: at home with my youngest daughter and doing kind of

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Speaker 1: mummy things and occasionally a bit of work on those days.

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Speaker 1: I worked kind of flexible schedule, but generally that was

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Speaker 1: the pattern. So I was in the office sort of

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Speaker 1: Tuesday to Thursday. I tried to keep one day where

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Speaker 1: I worked at home so to do writing and all

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Speaker 1: the other stuff that you don't do, because particularly when

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Speaker 1: you're part time, I think you find that you're in

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Speaker 1: a lot of meetings. Universities love meetings and committees and

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So yeah, so my days were

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, that was the structure of the week,

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Speaker 1: and there was you know, you'd be planning ahead, so

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Speaker 1: sometimes you'd be like, Okay, I'm going to a conference

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Speaker 1: or I've got a really important meeting that I can't miss,

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Speaker 1: so I'd need to kind of box and cocks on

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Speaker 1: childcare and swap days. And my youngest daughter was in

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Speaker 1: nursery for at preschool all day on the days that

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Speaker 1: I worked, and then we had after school childcare as

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Speaker 1: well on those days till sort of six. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the kind of pattern of the week. There's

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Speaker 1: no normal week, is there, But you know, that was

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Speaker 1: roughly what it was supposed to look like. And then

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Speaker 1: around mid March, as the pandemic is taking over, and

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Speaker 1: I know the UK was probably about a week behind

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Speaker 1: the US of where the panic points are. So describe

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Speaker 1: how you learned that everything was going to go online

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Speaker 1: and sort of what that realization was like, both in

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Speaker 1: terms of your work then massively scaling up at the

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Speaker 1: same time that your childcare was disappearing. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: tended to not work weekends where I could avoid it.

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Speaker 1: In the before as I called it before life, I

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Speaker 1: remember that I think it was on the Saturday morning

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Speaker 1: for some reason, I picked up my phone and it

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Speaker 1: was just like my email was just rammed with messages

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Speaker 1: saying that we were going to move everything online. By

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Speaker 1: about the twenty third of March or preferably earlier, and

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Speaker 1: that's what my team does, like we support the staff

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Speaker 1: in the university to use online resources to develop their teaching,

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Speaker 1: and so it was a moment of kind of okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're doing this now. So yeah, that all weekend

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Speaker 1: we were trying to work out what our approach was

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Speaker 1: and what it really meant, because it's one thing to

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Speaker 1: say we're moving online, but what does that really mean?

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Speaker 1: And then students had been told that we were, so

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Speaker 1: then we were trying to work through that, and there

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Speaker 1: was just a lot and I just remember that whole

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Speaker 1: weekend was spent just trying to write emails in between

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Speaker 1: juggling children and family life. And my partner works at

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Speaker 1: the same university and he's in it, so he was

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Speaker 1: also getting slammed at the same time. And I think

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Speaker 1: we finally just went out for a walk on the

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Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon and it felt so good to just kind

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Speaker 1: of get away. I hadn't realized how stressed I was

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Speaker 1: until we sort of actually left the house, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's how I found out about it, and then went in.

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Speaker 1: All the next week was just rammed, and at that

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Speaker 1: stage we still had childcare, but then we weren't sure,

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Speaker 1: like when lockdown was actually going to start, there was

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Speaker 1: quite a lot of uncertainty and then who would be

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Speaker 1: allowed to work and who wouldn't, So that was sort

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Speaker 1: of just evolving. We didn't know what was happening with

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Speaker 1: schools either at that point, so that was that was

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Speaker 1: kind of very up in the air. That happened very

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Speaker 1: quickly as well, Like my oldest daughter's school just she

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Speaker 1: went in in the morning, came home that afternoon like

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Speaker 1: we shut Yeah, that's kind of how a lot of

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Speaker 1: places happened. Well, hopefully you were able to help your

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Speaker 1: professors and students transition with a bit more you know. Yes, yeah, great,

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Speaker 1: mind than that. So how did you do that? Like

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Speaker 1: what sort of support did you provide for teachers too? Like, wait,

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Speaker 1: I've never taught online before. Yeah, so my team were

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Speaker 1: absolutely amazing and just stepping up, and so my kind

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Speaker 1: of head of educational technology instantly over that weekend produced

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Speaker 1: a kind of wiki page that then we just put

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Speaker 1: all the material content on and we just started to

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Speaker 1: update that as quickly as possible and get that message

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Speaker 1: out there. So as soon as we had that link,

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Speaker 1: we were able to send that around to staff in

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Speaker 1: the university to say okay, this is where all the

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Speaker 1: information you need is here. And funnily enough, like that morning,

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Speaker 1: I've just been kind of before this all happened, I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking, oh, I really think we need a sort

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Speaker 1: of plan of things how we're going to manage this

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Speaker 1: as a directorate, And so I just emailed my senior

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Speaker 1: team saying these are the five areas that we need

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Speaker 1: to focus on, like that morning, and then by the

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Speaker 1: afternoon I was like, okay, those changed a little bit

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Speaker 1: slightly differently. So yeah, that's what we did, and then

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Speaker 1: we went so my boss is the deputy president of

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Speaker 1: the university, and so then we had like various structures

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Speaker 1: to manage how you change policy because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of policies and kind of contractual things that you have

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Speaker 1: to do with students. So we had to kind of

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Speaker 1: feed into committees around that, working with colleagues across university

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Speaker 1: to support staff. In particular assessment. That was the big

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Speaker 1: thing because were about to move into the exam period.

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Speaker 1: That's where the UK University's had exams from starting April May,

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Speaker 1: so that was a big transition point to move over

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Speaker 1: to as well, and every other university in the kind

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Speaker 1: of world was doing it at the same time. So

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Speaker 1: you're trying to share good practice as well between different institutions,

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Speaker 1: and so what did you come up with. I'm very curious,

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Speaker 1: like what is best practice for online assessment? Then? Yeah, sure.

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Speaker 1: So in the initial period, it was kind of what

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Speaker 1: we called the emergency response. So we had five principles,

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Speaker 1: see if I can remember them all to talk about.

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Speaker 1: So one was around, you know, try and do as

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Speaker 1: much as you can asynchronously as opposed to synchronously, so

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Speaker 1: not in real time basically because we did I had

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Speaker 1: no idea where our students were. They could be anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the world. We have a lot of international students,

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Speaker 1: so so as much as you can to put up

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Speaker 1: that they can adapt to it flexibly. That was one thing.

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Speaker 1: The other one was around this is not perfect online learning.

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Speaker 1: This is about best efforts to try and get as

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Speaker 1: much as you can out there and really communicate with

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Speaker 1: your students. We said it should be very basic, so

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't assume that anyone has anything more than a

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Speaker 1: mobile phone and you know, a data collect point on

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Speaker 1: a mobile because again, a lot of our students had

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Speaker 1: caring responsibilities or living with parents who suddenly have got

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Speaker 1: other simply at home. So that was one of them

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Speaker 1: was keep it simple as well, so you know, just

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Speaker 1: be communicating with your students and use the university system.

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Speaker 1: So they weren't rocket science, you know that, but there was.

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Speaker 1: It was a big shift and I was teaching. I'm

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Speaker 1: teaching myself as well this term, so again I had

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Speaker 1: to go through the same process of trying to redesign

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Speaker 1: everything and it is it's the head space thing as well, definitely,

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Speaker 1: But that was the initial phase. Moving for September. What

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Speaker 1: we've now done is we are planning again to keep

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Speaker 1: offering as much as we can online because we're not

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Speaker 1: sure how the campus will open and you know, what

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Speaker 1: facilities will be available. We're still trying to work that

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Speaker 1: out in terms of our programs and our student needs

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Speaker 1: and our staff needs, where the staff can get into

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Speaker 1: the university because being in London, our staff travel from

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Speaker 1: quite a long way away. So again we've changed. We've

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Speaker 1: just agreed a set of principles around that which are

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Speaker 1: more detailed than the first step we had. So they

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Speaker 1: talk a bit more about how you can manage synchronous

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Speaker 1: and asynchronous responses, so how you can do like lectures

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Speaker 1: online but also then follow up with a lot of

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Speaker 1: tutorials that might be you know where you get that

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Speaker 1: interaction within students and really focusing on engaging students because

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Speaker 1: they want to come to the university, but they just

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Speaker 1: they can't. So that's that sort of challenge that we're

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Speaker 1: looking at at the moment. So your work was exploding.

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Speaker 1: This reminds me of like there's like a telehealth team

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Speaker 1: where I work, and you know, they were always fairly active,

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Speaker 1: but it's like their job went from like this little

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Speaker 1: side project to like the aticenter. Like they were all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, like working all night long, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they did a fantastic job ramping things up quickly because

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Speaker 1: the need was there. So you're like the telehealth equivalent

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Speaker 1: at your university. So things are exploding and you lose

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Speaker 1: your childcare, and you have to detail us a little

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Speaker 1: bit how did you survive? Because I mean, the whole

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Speaker 1: thing that got us very excited to speak with you

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Speaker 1: is not only were we interested in the angle of

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Speaker 1: the online learning, but like how you said you did

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Speaker 1: this successfully. We're excited to hear what were your secrets,

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Speaker 1: what made it work? What did you learn and I

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Speaker 1: would love you to include how your partner, if you

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Speaker 1: have one, played a role in all this, because that

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Speaker 1: can be an important component for some people. Sure, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think I think we've managed it successfully. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well we're still here and we're still smiling. So that's

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and the work is happening. I love

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Speaker 1: a spreadsheet, so I started off with like, right, this

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Speaker 1: is these are the weeks, and this is the blocks

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Speaker 1: of time. And I prayed this beautiful spreadsheet and my

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Speaker 1: partner looked at it and when I have no idea

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about, and could you just explain it again?

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Speaker 1: And so so then I went through it again and

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Speaker 1: we basically blocked out the time and I kind of

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Speaker 1: worked out a rough total of hourt It's really but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't so much abouts. It was about concentrated blocks

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Speaker 1: of time. So and then I publicized that very openly

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Speaker 1: to my manager other people in the university. I put

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Speaker 1: it in my out of office, I put it on

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Speaker 1: my on my emails intues, these are the times when

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Speaker 1: I can have meetings and I am working, and these

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Speaker 1: are the times that I'm not available. And it's been

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Speaker 1: really hard. It's worked most of the time. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's been the time when you have to kind of

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Speaker 1: thumb wrestle a bit. You don't want to go into

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Speaker 1: the sort of whose meeting is more important conversation with

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Speaker 1: your partner. So you know, generally we've tried not to

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Speaker 1: trade too much, but there have been some things that

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Speaker 1: were in the diary, say all day events or things

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Speaker 1: like that, which just didn't work. But I think being

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Speaker 1: really clear has been like really really important from the

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Speaker 1: outset because then it meant that we could just plan

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Speaker 1: it for the next sort of two months and then

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Speaker 1: as this is carried on, just kept going. And it's

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Speaker 1: helped me realize the flow of the weeks as well,

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Speaker 1: I think. At first of all, so I moved from

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Speaker 1: working like some days to working every day. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm working more now than I was before.

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Speaker 1: But that's you know, that's fine, that's what needs to happen.

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Speaker 1: But it was I realized that the week still followed

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Speaker 1: the same kind of flow as they had before. So

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Speaker 1: like Mondays was quite a good day to kind of

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Speaker 1: do some catch ups, it was quite quiet, or you know,

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Speaker 1: do some more development work, and then you know, the

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Speaker 1: rest of the week got busier and so yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that was I think the really crucial thing. And my

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Speaker 1: partner's not he's not a planner. He was a bit

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Speaker 1: more like you know, I was like, this is what

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Speaker 1: I have to do, and he fits in around it,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of you know, in order to sort

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Speaker 1: of get all the work time in. I I'm quite

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Speaker 1: happy to get up early and put in a good

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Speaker 1: couple of hours, you know, sort of first thing. And

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Speaker 1: I found that's really helped as well. And I've sort

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Speaker 1: of played around with different things like thought, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I'll use that time as me time and do sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, yoga and things like that, and then

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Speaker 1: I realized, no, actually that just getting up focusing on

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Speaker 1: what I thought about doing the night before for the

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Speaker 1: next day, that's been brilliant to just kind of crack

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Speaker 1: it on. And then I've realized I felt that I

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Speaker 1: could relax a bit more with the children and you know,

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Speaker 1: not be distracted because I found that if I get

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Speaker 1: you know, if I haven't sort of finished off what

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Speaker 1: I'm doing, or I kind of just know that there's

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Speaker 1: something that I've got to focus on later in the day,

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Speaker 1: I can't really give my time to the children. Then

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Speaker 1: you just get end up being a bit grumpy with them,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, sometimes you can catch up with things,

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Speaker 1: but generally you just need to be present, even for

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So yeah, my god, I hear you

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Speaker 1: on the grumpy. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. All right. Well, we are here

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Speaker 1: talking with Susanna Quincy, who is a professor in London

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Speaker 1: who has also been in charge of helping her university

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Speaker 1: move to online learning, and she is discussing how she

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Speaker 1: managed things with four children and their child care disappeared

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Speaker 1: this spring. So could you just spell out for us,

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Speaker 1: like what hours you did and what your partner did,

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Speaker 1: And I mean I'd love to hear how exactly people

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Speaker 1: did split the week. I mean, you say you split it,

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Speaker 1: but what did those hours wind up looking like? And

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Speaker 1: include how school was supervised, because I think you know,

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Speaker 1: in some families it's certainly more autopilot than others, and

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Speaker 1: it can play a role on how your time has

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Speaker 1: to be allocated. Sure, so split the day from roughly

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Speaker 1: kind of nine till one it was a morning session,

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Speaker 1: and then from one till six it was a kind

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Speaker 1: of afternoon session, and then that allowed a bit of time,

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Speaker 1: certainly for me in the mornings to kind of get

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Speaker 1: up and crack on with a couple of hours before

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Speaker 1: I sort of took over on to the kids at

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Speaker 1: nine or potentially in the evening if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: then catch up later, although they've all just been going

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Speaker 1: to bed at ridiculous times, Like the evening stuff hasn't

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Speaker 1: really happened as much, but yeah, it gives you kind

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Speaker 1: of a good sort of four or five hour block.

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Speaker 1: And we also kind of tried to do lunchtime as

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Speaker 1: a bit of a transition point in the day so

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Speaker 1: that you know, we could kind of do handover. And

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Speaker 1: so one of us will work just the way that

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Speaker 1: meetings fell, literally, so one of us will do like

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Speaker 1: Monday Tuesday mornings. I do Monday Tuesday afternoons, and then

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Speaker 1: I do Wednesday Thursday, then Friday's we alternate, and actually

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Speaker 1: Fridays is really nice because it's normally meeting Free Free Earth,

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Speaker 1: so you know, you can kind of get a bit

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Speaker 1: of work done at the end of the week. And

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Speaker 1: I found like just being very very focused and clear

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Speaker 1: about what I need to do is that time, and

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Speaker 1: you can get through quite a lot of stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's also the odd meetings that obviously fall out of

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Speaker 1: that time, and sometimes you just have to go, I've

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Speaker 1: just got to do it. And the children are either

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Speaker 1: roaming around free in the house or they're you know,

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Speaker 1: on device, and you know sometimes as well. I take

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Speaker 1: I did chuckle about this because we let them have

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Speaker 1: TV at five o'clock or like you know, screen time

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Speaker 1: at five o'clock. So I'd be arranging meetings around my

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Speaker 1: family's screen time and going, I can talk to you

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Speaker 1: at five. So that's what the days really look like.

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Speaker 1: And then we decided that we would do homes school

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Speaker 1: in the morning and nine to kind of twelve ish,

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Speaker 1: so we had when the school's closed. It was two

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Speaker 1: weeks before the Easter holidays in the UK, and so

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Speaker 1: we started off that kind of worked for two weeks,

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Speaker 1: and then the Easter holidays happened and we were just

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Speaker 1: going to keep going and the kids were like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's our holiday, and then after that it's all sort

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Speaker 1: of fallen apart bit. So it's gone very free range,

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Speaker 1: partly the way the schools have managed it. So Eldest

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Speaker 1: Daughter School, which I think woul be equivalent to middle

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Speaker 1: school to be in like seventh grade. I think they've

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Speaker 1: done a lot of online work, so she's pretty much

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Speaker 1: self motivated now. She will do that and do her

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Speaker 1: weekly schedule and she does it on Microsoft Teams and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of it. Whereas the primary school, the

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Speaker 1: younger children's school, the eight year olds, they've put a

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Speaker 1: lot online and they've done the teachers have done an

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Speaker 1: amazing job, but I think they've struggled hard to sort

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Speaker 1: of just really engage with it and on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: so we you know, we're doing a bit, but not

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Speaker 1: huge amounts. And then none of the schools have lives streamed,

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Speaker 1: which has been great in a way that you don't

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Speaker 1: have to have loads of children in front of devices,

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Speaker 1: but I think, particularly for the eight year old, they

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Speaker 1: missed that interaction with their teachers. So yeah, we've gone

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Speaker 1: very I decided that I didn't want to have them

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Speaker 1: sitting in tears over over schoolwork, and that happened one

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Speaker 1: morning and I was like, do you know what, We're

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Speaker 1: just back off and they've done been doing so much

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Speaker 1: independent learning, and I was kind of I went upstairs

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Speaker 1: the other morning to have a shower and came back

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Speaker 1: and the younger three were sitting around the table drawing

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Speaker 1: books and making their own books and all that. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, my work is done exactly, this is fine,

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Speaker 1: It's fine. So yeah, I think we've kind of moved

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Speaker 1: down that as the longer we've gone on and there's

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Speaker 1: not much chance at the moment of school's reopening here

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Speaker 1: for the ages of my children, we've just kind of

432
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: accepted it and gone, okay, you know, they're having an adventure.

433
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: Have they become better at entertaining themselves in the course

434
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: of this, Definitely, definitely, I would say, so. You know,

435
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: I think it took them a while to transition to it,

436
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: and I think one of the hard things for children

437
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 1: is although they don't necessarily have the same concept of time,

438
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: they like to know what the summer's going to look

439
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: like and you know, when they can go back to

440
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: school and when they can see their friends. And we

441
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: haven't really been able to answer that yet. So as

442
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: they've got to accept it and as we've kind of

443
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: all relaxed a bit more, I think they're definitely working together.

444
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: And I think that's an advantage of having a bit

445
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: of a gang as well, like they do, you know,

446
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 1: their social interactions. They all play Minecraft and you know, so, yeah,

447
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: I think that they've definitely been and a huge Lego

448
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: play zone this week where one of them was making

449
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: things for the other one's houses. And yeah, I think

450
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: they've definitely got more coptive as we've gone on, Berney,

451
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: That's what I felt very grateful for having, like, especially

452
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: my older two having each other. I think it must

453
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: be really hard actually to have one kid unless you

454
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: have some good neighbors that you can hang out with them. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

455
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think you've learned about productivity. I

456
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: mean we've had some email conversations before this about you know,

457
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: managing schedules and productivity and all that. I mean, what

458
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 1: what do you think you've learned about yourself and how

459
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: you work and how you can work during this whole experience. Yeah,

460
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: I think I think you go through phases, like certainly now,

461
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this today and thinking that, you know,

462
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: I think at the beginning, we thought it was just

463
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: going to happen maybe for a few weeks, and as

464
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: you've gone further on, you realize that you have to

465
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: adapt differently. And I think I've learned that a lot

466
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: of the kind of habits that I knew that I

467
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: have a kind of been reinforced in a way. So

468
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: the planning. I love planning, but sometimes I plan in

469
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: a very optimistic way, so I'm very guilty of the

470
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: sort of you know, I must squeeze in one more thing.

471
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: And certainly, what I've noticed about being at home during

472
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: this period is with you not having the transitions and

473
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: things like a commute or anything like that that you know,

474
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: actually those factoring in a bit of a buffer to

475
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: just convert what you're doing in work into the homeless

476
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: has been really really important. So again, like you know,

477
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: the sort of wrapping up rituals at the end of

478
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: the day, which I just sort of usually dash out

479
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: of my office and dash down the road to catch

480
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 1: a train. I've been really making sure that I kind

481
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: of stop meetings a bit earlier and just have that

482
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: thinking time to plan, because I don't want to wake

483
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: up the next morning and go what am I supposed

484
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: to be doing? I've got, you know, an hour and

485
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: a half off and I can't you know, and then

486
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: end up going through email and that kind of thing.

487
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: So I certainly think that that's been something that's really

488
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: reinforced is the importance of kind of planning, but also

489
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: being flexible around that, thinking about being really focused on

490
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: and very clear on what your priorities are. So I

491
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,239
Speaker 1: had to, you know, I had to write my ort

492
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: least to priorities and sort of staple it onto the

493
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: desk because I get drawn off into other things, but

494
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: in the early stages, but also as part of that,

495
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: making sure that your priorities include your own professional development

496
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: and things that you want to do, because I think

497
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: in this kind of emergency situation or really high pressure,

498
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: it's really easy to just get really caught on the

499
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: treadmill of all the tasks you've got to do, which

500
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: are interested in engaging and important. But if you don't

501
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: take a bit of time to read and think and

502
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: you know, do some things that perhaps are look like

503
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: they're optional but actually really important to your own professional development,

504
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: then you just don't do the other things as well.

505
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: So at first I felt really guilty about doing that,

506
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, no, it's really important. I've set

507
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: aside time in the week to do that because this

508
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: will pass, and which when you need to pick up

509
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: those things again or I've kept them going and again

510
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: things like relationships with colleagues and networking has been hugely

511
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: beneficial in our approaches as well, which is something that

512
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: I did before, but it's about translating that online. And

513
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: I've also learned, I think how I work kind of.

514
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: I realized that I talk through a lot of things

515
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: in the office with people, and I couldn't work out

516
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: while my calendar was so busy when we moved into

517
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: this remote work, and it's really because I'm trying to

518
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: recreate the same meetings and have those kind of corridor conversations,

519
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, on zoom or on teams or something like that.

520
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: So again then those are the things that those relationships

521
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: building are the things that also are really important to

522
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: getting the job done and getting things accepted. So some

523
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: of the things that we're doing across the university, and

524
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: it's really important that we get buy in from everybody

525
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: to make them work. And by doing some kind of

526
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: relationship building work as well in terms of getting stuff done,

527
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: that's really been helpful as well. That's very important. I

528
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: think that what a lot of people find is that

529
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: when that time crunch happens, that you start doing those

530
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: long term career investments, the building up of your own

531
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: career capital, because it's always the things that as if

532
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: they are important but not urgent. Now you don't ever

533
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: have to reach out to a colleague to see how

534
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: they're doing. You don't have to, you know, learn this

535
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: new skill. But if you never do those things, then

536
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: eventually you have a problem. You hit a wall in

537
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: terms of your advance. And I mean one one other

538
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: topic to cover here, because I think this plays into it.

539
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: And certainly our podcast is aimed at professional women who

540
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: have children, and a lot of people have had some

541
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: trouble creating a equitable situation within their families. And so

542
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: what we've seen happen is that you have let's say

543
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: two academics, the woman takes on more of the childcare

544
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: and the homeschooling. He now has more time for research

545
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, I'm not dealing with all these

546
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: interruptions that you know the university, so hey, I can

547
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: just do all these research projects. It's great, and I

548
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: advance my career. Where she's lost all time for that,

549
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: she's only got the time to do the things right

550
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: in front of her. So I wonder you know what

551
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: you've seen broadly in your university as well, if you've

552
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: talked any about this with people and then obviously you

553
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: managed to create a very equitable situation within your own home.

554
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Was that just the assumption, or if you've seen other

555
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: people around you, you know, also stumble into that eventually.

556
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm just curious what you're seeing. Yeah, that's really interesting.

557
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: Certainly there's been some some work coming out of universities

558
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: or academy recently that, Yeah, the publishing the rates of

559
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: submission to journals hire for men, and around not just

560
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: childcare but also dealing with some of the past oral issues.

561
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: You've got clearly like a lot of students that are struggling,

562
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: and that there is a view that perhaps it's more

563
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: of the female academics that are picking that up rather

564
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: than the male academics as well, which is just exacerbating

565
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: the situation. I think I was really determined at the

566
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: beginning of this that, you know, that I had to

567
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: be able to work. There was no way that, you know,

568
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: and we had to be very very clear about it.

569
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: And my partner and I, you know, have always kind

570
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: of co parented anyway in that respect, and although I

571
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: do think at different times in our lives depending on

572
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: how many children we've had and where they are. Some

573
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: of the shift has been more towards me than but

574
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: certainly recently I've been like, you know, know this is balanced,

575
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: but you have to let go of some of the things.

576
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes I think I take things on

577
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: and I've noticed this with colleagues as well, when you

578
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: don't have to, just because you just kind of gone, oh,

579
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: I'll order them shoes and I'll do this, and I'll

580
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: do that and everything, and you realize you're carrying this

581
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: huge mental load. So that has meant walking past paths

582
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: and stuff in the house and things like that and

583
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: just completely ignoring it. I mean, I was talking to

584
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: We've got a parenting channel in our team site, and

585
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: I was asking I was saying I was coming and

586
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: doing this podcast and asking colleagues what they thought, and

587
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: all of them were saying that they had they tried

588
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: to put in that real planning side of things, and

589
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: partly it depended on their partner's jobs. You know, who

590
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: had more flexibility, who didn't, whether they you know, were

591
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: able to look after children. And I think it does,

592
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: in some respects exacerbate any kind of differentials that you've

593
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: had before. You know, so if you're seen as a

594
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: primary parent, you know, they still come to you, and

595
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: that does still happen. Sometimes there are other parenting units

596
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: available in the house, you know, you can go and

597
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 1: see that are the bear and down there with these

598
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: lego instructions. So you know, I think it's being very

599
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: clear at the beginning, but it does. You know. I

600
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: have seen it with colleagues as well, where they are

601
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: really struggling and really trying to you know, fit things in.

602
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: But we've also kind of tried to be very open

603
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: in particularly my team and other parts of the university

604
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: about you know that a lot of us are looking

605
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: after children, you know, men and women, and that Joe's

606
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: children will pop up at various times and that's okay.

607
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: You know that will happen, and you know you try

608
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: you try not to, but you know, you've got to

609
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: make sure that your children's well being is there. But

610
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: I think if it always falls to you, and that

611
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: you're always seems one, then that is a problem and

612
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: it's quite difficult thing to address one sometimes as well.

613
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: Very true. All right, well, Susanna. We always end our

614
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: interview with a love of the week, so something that

615
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: is exciting for us I know you're a listener, so

616
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: you know we do this, but we can go first

617
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: to give you a minute or two to think. So, Sarah,

618
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: you got yours, you know what I need to look back?

619
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: Why don't you do yours? Well, I looked back at

620
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: my note like no, no, wait on it. I free

621
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: wrote free ride on Sarah here inevitably because she, uh,

622
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: she is coming up with it. I couldn't print my

623
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Normally I always print my notes, but somehow these ones

624
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: didn't get printed. And that is because in part I

625
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: was having some power out of issues. So I said,

626
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: my love of my week was the fact that when

627
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: you have no Wi Fi you can link your cell

628
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: phones data to your computer and still get work done.

629
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: It's kind of we were all coming up with various

630
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: hacks for our internet. We we actually got a new

631
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: network system here a week or two ago that is

632
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: just like turbo charged all over the place. So the

633
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: the spots of the house that had limited Wi Fi

634
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: now have it perfectly because there are these things plugged

635
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: in the wall all over the place. I mean, you know,

636
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: we've got four kids on Zoom at the same time,

637
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: like plus then my my husband might be on a

638
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: video chat too, and then you know there might be

639
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: a movie streaming that like two doing it separately. So

640
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: that's good. We get this system. I'm glad we you know,

641
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: took this opportunity to upgrade our homes data system Susanna,

642
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: how about you. I think mine has to be Lego,

643
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: so I love Lego anyway. Lego is great, and I'm

644
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: a Lego serious play facilitator as well, which is a

645
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: whole other conversation. But the kids this week have just

646
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: got massively into the Lego and just been off. It's

647
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: kept them amused for hours. It's kept me a muse

648
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: for hours. They've gone through about all through the old kids,

649
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: so keeping all those instruction books has been worth it,

650
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: and they've well, you know, all these amazing things. In fact,

651
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: my partner even then built a Lego table to spread

652
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: the Lego out on because because he was like, there's

653
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: not enough room. It's all over the place. So yeah,

654
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: that's definitely been our our love of the week, and

655
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: it's really encouraged that independent play, which has been great.

656
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: They could be fun to do together. I have to know, something,

657
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: are your kids like organized, like like okay in our house,

658
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: like all the Legos are already one jumble and yeah,

659
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: we may have a booklets, but you wouldn't be able

660
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: to find like specific So did you keep your kids?

661
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: Did you manage to schools in separate and if so,

662
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Well? No, so I don't

663
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: have you know, I know some people keep them in

664
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: the boxes and everything, but I did do a few

665
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: years ago. I color coded it. So we've got these

666
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: units with the drawers in from Mika and I put

667
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: like different colors in and you know, Mike laughed and

668
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: said that'll last about five minutes, but actually it didn't.

669
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: So they do so they're not you know, it does

670
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: still mean a lot of sorting through pieces, but they

671
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: are color coded, which has been fab so there's a

672
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: lot of rainbows get built as well because that they can.

673
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: They're like, I'm taking one from each dure that is

674
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: that is amazing. I you are the lego guardess here.

675
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: So thank you, Suzanna, thank you so much for joining

676
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: us here and best of both worlds. Thank you. It's

677
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: been great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, that

678
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: was great. And now we have a question from a

679
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: listener who says that she just had her third maybe

680
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: so her kids are five three in infant and she

681
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: returned to work for I'm Home. She experiences before, she says,

682
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: where she does not seem to have time to work

683
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: out during the day. She would typically do a thirty

684
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: minute online workout or run outside. She says, I am

685
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: full of loopholes and excuses that seem valid to me,

686
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: like I'm too full of milk in the morning, so

687
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable. I don't want to pump at five am.

688
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: Lunch break is lunch, evening, dinner, bedtime rush. I should

689
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: spend time with my three kids in the evening. She

690
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: needs downtime. So what are your thoughts, any creative ideas

691
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: for when I can exercise well? First, I think she

692
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: needs to do some self exploration and figure out how

693
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: important is exercise to her right now and what would

694
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: be the minimum effective dose that would kind of need

695
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: her criteria for feeling like she's doing it enough, Like

696
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: I don't think she needs to do it just to

697
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: check off a box. If she really feels like she's

698
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: missing it from her life or she just otherwise doesn't

699
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: have a good sense of well being and wants to

700
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: bring it in, and that's fine, But I just I

701
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: also feel like, you know, sometimes you need a month

702
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: or two of like not doing that much, and that's okay.

703
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: I've done that towards the end of some pregnancies. I've

704
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: been slower to get back into it on certain pregnancies

705
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: compared to others. I think Cameron's Cameron's in particular, I

706
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: kind of took it easy for a while. So like, first,

707
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: just make sure you answer the why, because there's no

708
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: like hard and fast rule that says, you know, after

709
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: giving birth you need to exercise for thirty minutes a

710
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: day every single day once your baby hits the six

711
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: week mark or something like. There's no nobody's checking you

712
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: up on that. So remember that you can take your time.

713
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: If you're in that phase where you're waking up and

714
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: your boobs are full of milk and you don't want

715
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: to pump at five am, and I don't blame you

716
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: one bit, I don't know. At the same time, if

717
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: you're like I am dying to exercise, which I have

718
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: felt on other pregnancies, then you're right. You got to

719
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: be creative. I mean, could you do like a two

720
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: minute pump to just take the edge off at five

721
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: am so that it's not enough to impede that morning

722
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: feeding and doesn't take very long, but it's enough to

723
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: make it so that you're not like dying during your workout.

724
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: I mentioned on a very recent episode, taking walks, you know,

725
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: during zoom calls. So even though that's not like a

726
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: hard workout, that could be something. So I don't know

727
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: if there's a way to bring it in and if

728
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: you have childcare, which I hope that you do because

729
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: otherwise working from home with all those kids unless your

730
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: partner is also unless you have some sort of patchwork schedule,

731
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: but hopefully you have some coverage for your kids, and

732
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: then I would say, like, do a little break built

733
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: into the workday, even if it's like twenty minutes, or

734
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: even like the seven minute workout, you know, like I'm

735
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: sure you could. Anybody can find seven minutes, even if

736
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: it's like during the lunch hour. I don't know, those

737
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: are my thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I'm struggling with the

738
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: same thing as we talked about in the intro to

739
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: last week episode, figuring out when with around feedings and

740
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: with being warmer during the day and work being very

741
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: busy and the evenings being also filled with kids stuff. Yeah,

742
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a tough season for it. I think,

743
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: you know, limiting your expectations that if you're not going

744
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: to get through a full thirty minute online workout, that

745
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You can do ten. Just do something, do

746
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: some strength training as we've learned, you know, walk around

747
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: outside a little bit, have the older kids chase you

748
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: in the backyard. I mean, that's it's still something. And

749
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: then you can feel like you're spending some time with

750
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: them too. And you know, if you can sort of

751
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: think of some of it as a bit of a

752
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: mental health break too. You just give the baby to

753
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: your partner or your sitter or whatever for a little

754
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: bit and just go outside and walk for fifteen twenty

755
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: minutes and clear your head. Again, it's something and you

756
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: probably need that something given that you have, you know,

757
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: three children at home and working from home and all

758
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: that as well. All right, well, this has been best

759
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: of both worlds. We've been talking with Susanna Quincy about

760
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: working from home without childcare as her responsibility is ramped up.

761
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: So we will be back next week with more on

762
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You

763
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or

764
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram and you can find

765
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been

766
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next

767
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 1: time for more on making work and life work together