1 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Welcome strictly Business Varieties weekly podcasts featuring conversations with industry 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: leaders about the business of media and entertainment. This is 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: Variety Deputy music editor jem As Wet, and this week's 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: installment is with Ed Millett and Wendy Onng of Tap Music, 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: the company that oversees the careers of Lana del Ray, Julipa, 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: Ellie Golding, Caroline Pelagic, Noah Cirius, and many other artist, 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: producers and songwriters. This conversation was actually a keynote for 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: the Mondo NYC Music and Tech Conference in October, and 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: I went in with a bunch of very business oriented questions, 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: but as you'll see, the conversation quickly went into areas 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't think any of us really expected. TAP's most 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: successful clients are largely female artists, powerful and empowered. Was 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: and as Ed and Wendy we're talking about how Lana 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: del Ray's career grew, they also began speaking about the 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: unfair treatment female artists received from the industry and even 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: from fans, and how they as managers can help artists 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: cope with that, especially since there's so much pressure for 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: artists to be active on social media. In fact, they 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: both agree that record label contracts should include provisions for therapy. 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: If labels are going to so strongly encourage artists to 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: engage on social media conversation, isn't just about that. We 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: also spoke about Julipe's decision to go ahead with the 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: March release of her Future Nostalgia album just as the 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: pandemic was setting it. Even though the album's party Moved 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: was just about as far as possible from the way 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: people were feeling at the time, it won a Grammy 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: and provided a joyful escape for people during a very 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: sad time. The two bring years of experience to their roles, 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: a tap which Ed and his partner Ben Moss informed 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: in London he had worked in management with the artist 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: Moby and The King's Ray Davies as well as his 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: own band, and Wendy brings it an amazingly diverse background, 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: moving from music industry posts in her native Singapore and 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: Hong Kong to prominent marketing roles and major labels in 35 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: the US alongside Clive Davison Diddy. Then she worked in 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: New York's Metropolitan Opera in his CMO of jay Z's 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 1: Rock Nation before settling a Tap where she was named 38 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: president in So without further ado, after the break, you'll 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: be hearing from them and me on Strictly Business. Welcome 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: back to Strictly Business this week with Ed Millett and 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: Wendy Young of Tap Music. Conversation starts off with Ed 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: discussing how the company started with Lana del Rey, whom 43 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: they discovered in two thousand nine and went through a 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: quote depressing series of record company meetings until her first 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: hit video games took off online and made her almost 46 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: literally an overnight sensation. Man was a music lawyer at 47 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: the time, so he he has a music lawyer who's 48 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: out just like sourcing new talent, and I was looking 49 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: for new talent. So we had and we were a 50 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: similar age, so we had sort of connection over that. 51 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: And he had met Lana at CMJ, which was as 52 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: in New York back in the day, and she was 53 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 1: in a bad record deal with bad lawyer, bad manager, 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: and um, he started bringing her to London, and you know, 55 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: we decided to sort of team up at that point 56 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: and I left my management situation, he pretty much left 57 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: his lawing situation and Lana was really our first client together. UM, 58 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: And so that would have been two ten. Yeah, and 59 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, and we've we've spent like leading up to 60 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: that point. We've you know, we've been talking about setting 61 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: up something together for probably like a year proceeding. And 62 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, as the type of people we are, although 63 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: we're very different personality words, we have a very similar 64 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: like ethos about artists really, and you know, a strong 65 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: belief in that the artist should be the center of 66 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: their business and you know, in as much creative control 67 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: as possible, and but the industry around them should trust 68 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: that she, you know, was a different artist. And we 69 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: did you know, the the record label meetings and all 70 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: those things are all super depressing and they're like she's 71 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: to her songs are too slow, like you know what's 72 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: selling at the moment is this? Like she makes she 73 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: do a more uptempo number, and like, you know, what's 74 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: just all of this all stuff? And we were just like, 75 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: you know what, this is just not this is not 76 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: who she is. She had written video games and you know, 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: to her credit, and you know, Ben and I are 78 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: not going to take that credit. She was like, this 79 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: song is me in song form, Like this is what 80 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: I want to put out first, and we were like cool, 81 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, and a five minute ballad with actually no chorus, 82 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: like you know, but you know, I'm going to trust 83 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: your instincts that this is what you want to put 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: out to the world first, right, So we were like, 85 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: let's do it. So we put you know, we set 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: up a you know, essentially a non existent label, but 87 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: like a little record label, and we've printed a thousand 88 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: seven inch vinyls and she always made these videos, and 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: she made this video for video games and we put 90 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: bleep blue jeans on on the flip and we put 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: it out and you know, within two days it just 92 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: went and we really, in all honesty then just held 93 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: on for dear life for the next eighteen months. You know. 94 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: It was just like an absolute roller coaster. You know. 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: It's she you know, which is probably something we should 96 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: talk about later, but it was you know, there was 97 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: good and bad in it, right, and there was like 98 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: a whole load of stuff going on, and she just 99 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: came from essentially nothing to just being absolutely everywhere and 100 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: we were just me and then and an assistant. So 101 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: we really had to park our ambitions for the company 102 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: at that point and just be like, just look after her, 103 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: do all the things that we can do around her 104 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: and make sure that her career is looks after as 105 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: best it can be. And you know it was then, 106 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, two or three years to the dust settled 107 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: enough on that. Let me ask about Lana first, because 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: obviously she was your first big success, did she? She, 109 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: to an unusual degree, is a self directed and sort 110 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: of you know, she created this, this amazing Misspeaker herself. 111 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: It's really one of the most powerful ones that's come 112 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: along in a couple of decades, I would say, And 113 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: I remember the way that video game Video Games was 114 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: one of the first viral songs that I can actually remember. 115 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: You know, it's just like, wait, you heard it where 116 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: because even though you put out the seven inches, it 117 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: was blowing up on the internet and that was a 118 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: fairly new for I'm gonna because this is true of 119 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: all of your artists, your major ones anyway, that same 120 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: self direction. You see yourself more as facilitators then, you know, 121 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: helping to shape their image or shape what they are 122 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: and all that, you know what I mean, Yeah, absolutely, 123 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, put it this way. When you 124 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: start working with anybody, right like they come to you 125 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: with you know, and it's also down to the type 126 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: of artis we want to work with, right, So if 127 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: like somebody turns up and it's like, you know, I 128 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: want to I don't know, I just want to be 129 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: really famous and I want to be a pop star, 130 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: And like they don't have any sense of like who 131 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: that is, what is their point of view, where they're 132 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: coming from, what they want to say, what their visual identity. 133 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: You know, they've got to have all of that going 134 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: on in some form because you know, the type of 135 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: the way of artists careers are now, right, they're not. 136 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: It's not so controlled, like it's not like, oh, they're 137 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: only seeing in a music video and on a TV performance, 138 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: and it's like they have to live it, breathe it 139 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: beyond social seven. So they have to embody what they're doing. 140 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: It has to come from them. Like we can't imprint 141 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: and identity on somebody like that doesn't exist. And you 142 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: know that's what was I suppose sad about the way 143 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Lana started. In one way, it's like it was all 144 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: coming from her, but like the world did not believe it. 145 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: You know, there was like a cynicism about whether she 146 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: wrote the songs. There was a cynicism about having a 147 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: major label involved. There was a cynicism about the way 148 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: she looks. There was like there was just everything. No 149 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: one believed that this girl and I still you know, 150 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: can have misogynist theories about it, but it's like nobody 151 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: would believe that this girl could write these songs, make 152 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: the video herself in her bedroom and put it out 153 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: into the world and it explode the way it did. 154 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: People just like didn't want to believe. It had to 155 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: be some like puppet Master's Bengali situation. And you know, 156 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: to my original point that what we do is not 157 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: about telling someone what to do, but what we can 158 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: say is like we think this, this and this like 159 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: we'll bring you to London or we'll bring you to 160 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: l a and whatever. Put you in writing sessions with 161 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: good people, help you navigate it, help you finesse what 162 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 1: you're doing. We won't put you in a big team 163 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: of people when you don't yet know who you are. 164 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: And when you are ready and you can tell me 165 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: that this is your song, this is your what you 166 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: want to do in a visual, this is how you 167 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: want to present yourself to the world, and you can 168 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: say it with conviction, then that's the moment to move 169 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: because as soon as you enter that well, before you 170 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: even enter the world, before when you enter the major 171 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: label system, you're you've suddenly got fifty a hundred opinions 172 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: about what you're doing. And if you're not, you don't 173 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: even know what you are yet, then it just you 174 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: won't stand up to it. I was actually going to 175 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: use the word with Sergeantists in talking about the reactions 176 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: at Lana, who is a very provocative artist, you know, 177 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: intentionally provocative. Um, how do you keep that? Well? All right, 178 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: I'll sidebar for one second kind of story. I actually 179 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: know one of Lana's college professors who was about what 180 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: it was like when she was in class, and he 181 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: said that, you know, there was one day he said 182 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: she was kind of quiet, you know, not really the 183 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: persona you've see now. But one day she came in 184 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: and played a couple of songs for the class and 185 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: everybody was just was just gobsmacked because he said they 186 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: weren't as evolved as they are now. But the lyrics 187 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: were very, very strong, and I think she's one of 188 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: the funniest lyrics lyrists is working today. Um, but you know, 189 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: she was the bleached round he shall be a photo 190 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: of her and everything like that. Anyway, even then, he said, 191 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: she had a very strong sense of who she was. 192 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: But what do you as managers and you is that 193 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: small team around her do when like people are just 194 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: coming after so hard because the impassioned reactions that she 195 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: gets from fans go the other way to it, that 196 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: the reactions that remind me of Madonna or Nicki Minaj 197 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: and you know, people who are confrontational about things. Um, 198 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: but that brings an off a lot after and it 199 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: must be very difficult to be on the receiving end 200 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: of it. How do you keep her focused and not 201 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: upset by all by all of this. I'm sure she's 202 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: a very strong person, but I mean it would catch 203 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: up with anybody. I mean, you know, and this doesn't 204 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,479 Speaker 1: just apply to her, right like all artists And unfortunately, 205 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, we have a a majority female artist roster, 206 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: and um, unfortunately, female artists just get absolutely annihilated. And 207 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: this happens to all of them, right, So there's a 208 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: and for for whatever reason, male artists, male artists just 209 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: don't get it. You know, We've got a male artist, 210 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: m At Kennedy, and like he's got, as you know, 211 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: nearly a million followers. On Instagram and he you know, 212 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: there's just not that cynicism about what he does. There's 213 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: not a lack of trust in what he does. There's 214 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: not a questioning of his authenticity. It's just accepted that 215 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: he is coming from a real place. And all the 216 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: female artists, you know, do a Lana everybody, they all 217 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: face this like constant attack on their character, constant attack 218 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: on their unauthenticity, and you know, there is no hiding 219 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: from it. It is a horrible experience. And I I 220 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: don't know any artists that genuinely love socials even even 221 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: do a who is like, you know, she grew up 222 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: on socials and she's in charge of all the socials 223 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: and she's you know, she gets it as bad as 224 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: everybody else. So it's a it is a really tough 225 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: thing for anyone to endure. And it's a you know, 226 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: it's a constant topic of conversation. You know, we've said 227 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: to labels, you know, they really they should be as 228 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: part of the record deal, helping fund therapy, and you know, 229 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: like in no right, like these these young kids are 230 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: taken and put in a position where they're assassinated in 231 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: public all day, every day and questioned in every form possible. 232 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: So you know, it's a it's a serious point in 233 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: that there's there's definitely a void of support now in 234 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: this new world where an artist is at the spearhead 235 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: of there there is no barrier between them and people's opinion, 236 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: and it's really tough. Um. So you know that applies 237 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: not just Tolna but to all of them. Really, Yeah, 238 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: when is there anything you'd like to add At the point, 239 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, you know this, this whole 240 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: situation affects not even just the artist. You know, we 241 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: have an in house digital agency and it was interesting 242 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: when um they did a deep dive um into all 243 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: our artists socials and one of the digital managers had 244 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: only worked on Dermott, so she was only used to 245 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: like really supportive comments from bands when you look through 246 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: like Instagram or Twitter, and then she realized that it 247 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: was the complete opposite to its point. You know when 248 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: looking at Lana or Ellie or do any of our 249 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: female artists, and you know, the comments was so awful 250 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: that it really does affect the mental health of people 251 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: who have to police these comments to make sure there's 252 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: nothing awful or disgusting or out of line, you know 253 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: in the chat. So I think it's really unfortunate. I 254 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: think it is misogynistic. Um. I don't think it comes 255 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: from men alone. I think, you know, it's across gender. Um. 256 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes as well, if we're gonna dig 257 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: a little deep in this, you know, I also I 258 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: firmly believe in women supporting women, and I find that 259 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: harder and harder to come by sometimes because it's because 260 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: I think such a competition. And I'll just say this, 261 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm always glad and heartened when I when I 262 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: see great examples of women supporting women, and I hope 263 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: to see more and more with that on social media. 264 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Strictly Business featuring Tap Music's 265 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: Wendy Young and Ed Millett. We're back with Strictly Business 266 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: featuring Tap Music's Ed Millet and Wendy Young. How do 267 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: you coax or encouraging artists through this stuff? I mean, 268 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: are there tactics or techniques or things you can do 269 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: to make them feel better about it? Because I would 270 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: imagine the younger artists would be more used to it. 271 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: Somebody like Wilna's X I feel is a kind of 272 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: a true twenty one century pop star and that he 273 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: completely grew up on the Internet and he has mastered 274 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: and he's able to turn the tables and the haters. 275 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: It's fantastic be able that everybody in there. So how 276 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: do you help your artists get on top of it 277 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: in that way? Because it's so crushing and it depends, right, 278 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, like every personality is different. Like someone like 279 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: him is sharp witted, confident and quick with the comeback. 280 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: Also it appears right, So I don't know, I don't 281 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: know how it's affecting him personally in real time, you know. So, um, 282 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: everybody is different, and some people are sensitive. Some people 283 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: can brush it off, you know. And we have young artists. 284 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: We have a young artist who before she had actually 285 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: even released any music, got caught up in somebody misheard 286 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: a lyric in a demo that she put on SoundCloud 287 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: and accused her of racism, and it became like the 288 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: snowballed thing amongst all of not just her community, but 289 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: like in this whole seeing she was in and she 290 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: was getting accused of the stuff, and it's like it 291 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: was just not even true. Someone had missed her the 292 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: lyric and she put the lyrics on her social she 293 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: did everything she could counter and she you know, she's 294 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: twenty years old. It like really vected her because she 295 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: just felt, as she was making her first steps into 296 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: the world, she was being misunderstood and she had no 297 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: control over her own narrative. And you know, so often, 298 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, you can give broad guidance, right, so you're 299 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: like talking, you know, you can say things like, you know, 300 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: just ignore what people say, like focus on what you're doing, 301 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: and you know, don't read the comments and never go 302 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: onto Twitter, but all of that stuff. But it's it's 303 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: so much happens in real time and is and is 304 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: specific to that artist that you can't There isn't a 305 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: blanket a bit of guidance you can give someone because 306 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: you're you're often like reacting to where it's coming from 307 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: because you don't and what it's in reaction to, like 308 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: is it to do with something you've posted, Is it 309 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: to do a show you've done, Is it to do 310 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: with a brand alignment you've got? Is it's you know, 311 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: all of these things come at you left right and 312 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: send her and you know, all they all you can 313 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: do is say, like this is going to be tough 314 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: and you're going to feel it all the time. Protect yourself. 315 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: You know, some of our artists have got you know, 316 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: like apps that time and their amount of time that 317 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: they have on Instagram so that they don't just like 318 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: go down a hole for like half the day. And 319 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: you know some of them, I mean everyone will be aware, 320 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: has chosen to come off socials now, so you know, 321 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: it's definitely reaching a you know, and the wider conversation 322 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: of what's going on at the moment right like, it's 323 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: reaching a it feels like a breaking point where this 324 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: can't sustain. You know, You've got like a broad mental 325 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: health issue that is affecting people all over the world 326 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: in an unregulated industry that is like mining people's souls. 327 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: And you know, artists are sort of in one sense 328 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: complicit because they're like that is their means to market themselves, right, 329 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: So they're like they have to channel down this thing, 330 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: and everybody leans into that. Labels are like what you're 331 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: doing on TikTok, what you're doing on this, what you're 332 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: doing on that. You've got to be this, this, this, this, this, 333 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: and we'll pile in behind you. But you're like there 334 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: and that is the nature of the beast, right so 335 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: you're kind of like all you can say is like 336 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: this is going to be hard and steal yourself for it, 337 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: because but there is no other way right now to 338 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: to kind of present yourself as an artist. You've got 339 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: to be willing to fight your way to the top 340 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: and protect yourself mentally by it in whatever way that is. 341 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: So it's a it's a difficult question to answer because 342 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: it's like you can't give a broad like a couple 343 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: of bits of device. It's it's you're in a firefight together. 344 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: It feels a bit sometimes, you know. But you know, 345 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: I think that especially with our team anyway, and obviously 346 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: like it. It's said, given our heavily female roster, we 347 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: experience a lot of it. And I don't think we 348 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: have a you know, you can't have like a if 349 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: we knew how to do everything, I don't think the 350 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: therapists would have a job, frankly. I mean we definitely 351 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time, you know, supporting and and 352 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: talking through all these things, like hours and hours on end, 353 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: and it's it's draining for the artists and and for 354 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: for us as well. But I think that I don't know, 355 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: you just start to develop a thicker skin. And I 356 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: think if there's a silver lining, the pandemic has allowed 357 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: for these conversations not to be hidden away as if 358 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: it's shameful. You know, it's something that everybody needs to 359 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: be able to speak to and talk about freely, because 360 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's happening to everybody, Like you don't have 361 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: to be a famous celebrity too, and you know, to 362 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: go through all this mental health issues. At this point 363 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: when the artist is doing something that you might not 364 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: personally agree with, there they're determined to and that happens, 365 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: Jack mean, do you just do you just like far 366 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: back into your facilitator, do you just sort of I mean, 367 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking about it, maybe my relationship with a 368 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: boss or something like that, where you just state your 369 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: opinion and they say what they want to do and 370 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: then you just move on. Is that is that kind 371 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: of the situation. And it depends, you know, some it depends. 372 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: You know, an artist changes over their career like anybody, 373 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, they grow up, they have different you know, 374 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: they've done so many albums, they've done one album, They've 375 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: done different things in their life. They have different priorities 376 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: and you know, you're you're on that journey together, so 377 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: you you, you know, a lot of it is reacting 378 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: to you know, you can have your ideas like the 379 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: manager and be like, I'm going to give you this 380 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,239 Speaker 1: advice and you sometimes you're in sync and sometimes you're not, 381 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: and ultimately it's their career, not mine, right, so all 382 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: we can do is give our best advice and if 383 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: we're in lockstep, great, if we're not, then that's perfectly 384 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: in respect that. And you know, there's definitely things in 385 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: artists careers where I'm like, really, you know, I don't 386 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: think we should do that, and they will want to 387 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: do it, and they should have the right to do that. 388 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's obviously certain times where it 389 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: can be really trying to think of an example, but 390 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, if you were doing a show in a 391 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: really controversial place and it's for a lot of money, 392 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: so somebody is doing right, We'll pay them loads of money. 393 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: This person to come and like play a gig in 394 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: a place where it's questionable whether you should play a 395 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: show like what is your And as a manager, you're like, look, 396 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: this is why this is not what you should do 397 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: because of X y Z but you know it's your 398 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: choice if you want to. But you know this is 399 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: probably the blowback you're going to get. Is that a 400 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: risk you want to take? And the artists will think 401 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: about it, and you'll talk about it, and they'll come 402 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: to their conclusion. And once that decision made, you know 403 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: your job is there than to support them in that decision. 404 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: So you know what, whichever way the penny lands, you're 405 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: going to be like, Okay, you've made that decision, and 406 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: now I will handle everything that needs to be handled, 407 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: good or bad because I'm employed by you. It's not 408 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: the other way around. So I think that's you know, 409 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: often the misconception about management is it's like you're a service. 410 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: That is, you're employed by the artist. You're or not there. 411 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: You don't employ the artists. So people are often like, well, 412 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: why did you let them do that? Why? It's like, 413 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: it's not my career. I can give the best advice, 414 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: I can give the worst advice whatever it's going to 415 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: be their decision. Ultimately, I mean our brand of management anyway, 416 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: and that doesn't that is not the philosophy across the 417 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: board around the world. Yeah, but you know, we're a 418 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: big we're a big. You know, we're from the start 419 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: we you know, and as I said at the top, 420 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: was just you know, good artists have a vision and 421 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: whether they need it finessing or whether they need it guiding, 422 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: if you work with the right artists, you should be 423 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,239 Speaker 1: able to trust in that vision and they will have 424 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: their own agendas all the way through. So we're the 425 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: believers in in that. And and you know, in contrast 426 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: to a label and we don't sign you know, a 427 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: ton of artists and just like throw owe them against 428 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: the wall and see what sticks. Like, that's not a strategy, strategy, 429 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: a right strategy for for managers. And if that's what 430 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: they're doing, then they're definitely gonna fall flat on their 431 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: face because you know what, what's the upside there? I mean, 432 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: we don't we have you know, we typically tend to 433 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: be smaller companies compared to like a major label obviously, 434 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: so UM, I think that we have to have more 435 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: focus and be more strategic about keeping our roster. UM. 436 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: I hate the word boutique, but it kind of is, 437 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, for the for the tapway anyway, you know, 438 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: we we don't we're not trying to UM have our 439 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: pick of everybody in different genres, but we we want 440 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: to work with artists who share our philosophy ultimately yea, 441 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: and they seem to and to look at a different 442 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: challenge um a completely unprecedented challenge. There was probably extremely 443 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: difficult for managers. Doualipa put out her last album as 444 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: the pandemic was beginning. It's a party record, it's a 445 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: dance record, and she didn't delay it. She looked it 446 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 1: up a week And it's fascinating to me that the 447 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: record is one of the breakthroughs of last year at 448 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: a time when it was completely opposite of what was 449 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: happening in the world. And there are other artists who 450 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: put out other major artists who put out records with 451 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: similar vibes in the following weeks and months that did 452 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: not have that success at all. What was that situation, Like, 453 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: how did you guys confront it and what do you 454 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: feel like you did right? Do you know why it worked? 455 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: Do you have a thought is as to why it 456 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: worked apart from being a great record. I mean, Jeam, 457 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: I can tell you that prior to the pandemic, we 458 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: had done a year off setting up the record, like 459 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: even when the record didn't exist, yet we were still 460 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: setting it up, you know, and and do ah. You know, 461 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: she's one of the most hard working artists I've ever 462 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: worked with in my entire career. And um, you know, 463 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: we went around to the radio stations, we played the music, 464 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: we did all the things that you know you should 465 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: do um in setting up your sophomore album. Frankly, and 466 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: when it hit, I don't think any of us truly 467 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: understood the magnitude of what was going on. We certainly 468 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: didn't expect to still be I'm still at home in 469 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: my kitchen right now. I mean, you know, it's almost 470 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: two years. I didn't nobody expected this. So when the 471 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: pen when the lockdown hit, I think we were just 472 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: scrambling and really going by our gut instinct. Um, we 473 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: knew the music, which is the most important part. By 474 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: the way, the music was very very strong, you know, 475 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: and we had a really incredible artist that was very 476 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: authentic and genuine and sincere to the core, especially in 477 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: the way that she engaged with her fans. You know, 478 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: there was no doubt from anybody, whether you're a spectator, 479 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: a gatekeeper, or a fan, that she was the real deal. Um, 480 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, when it happened. She went on Instagram live 481 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: and she poured her heart out, and I think that 482 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: made a real impact too. I think a lot of 483 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: people who watched that just thought like, oh my god, 484 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: like she doesn't know what to do. We none of 485 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: us know what to do, and we did what was best, 486 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: which is actually follow what do I wanted? You know, 487 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: because everything that ED has been saying all the whole time, 488 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: like whether it's law nor anybody else, like you got 489 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: to trust in the artist vision sometimes, especially when nobody 490 00:27:52,800 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: else has a solution. We've been listening to Strictly Business Varieties, 491 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: weekly podcasts featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business 492 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: of media and entertainment. Thank you for listening.