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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Daron, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcasts

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Speaker 1: with Me, Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden. Joey

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Speaker 1: got a big week come up next week it's Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame Week Baseball Hall of Fame balloting from the

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Speaker 1: Baseball Writers. The results are announced January twenty first, and

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Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of attention on eat Rose

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Speaker 1: Tozuki Joe and whether he's going to be a unanimous selection.

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Speaker 1: Of course, only Mariano Rivera has been a unanimous selection

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Speaker 1: among the writers. I don't know how you feel about it, Joe,

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Speaker 1: but I want to get this out of the way.

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Speaker 1: Way too much attention is put on whether a guy

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Speaker 1: is unanimous or not. It's such a trivial thing. It's

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Speaker 1: really only a matter of whether I there's four hundred

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Speaker 1: or so voters, as a matter of whether every buddy

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Speaker 1: agrees that the sky is blue. And that's hard to do,

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Speaker 1: right with writers. I think it just draws too much

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Speaker 1: attention away from it. It's not a reflection of the

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Speaker 1: value of the player. It's more of a quirk or

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Speaker 1: the voting so let me get that out of the way.

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Speaker 3: Your take on the voting, I think it's interesting, Like

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Speaker 3: there's the only part about that that is interesting, Like

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Speaker 3: who does not vote for somebody like that and why?

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Speaker 3: That would be the only interesting part to me.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I would like to know those things, but

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Speaker 1: we don't get an answer, Like we don't know who

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Speaker 1: didn't vote for Derek Jeter. We don't know the reasons why.

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Speaker 1: So I wish that we did have those, but we

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Speaker 1: don't get them.

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Speaker 3: That would be the only reason why it's interesting to me,

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Speaker 3: because who didn't and why they did not vote for

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Speaker 3: that person. You look at it eachure, you look at

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Speaker 3: Derek and all these different people, and there's probably others

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Speaker 3: that would have qualified. Based on having been involved in

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Speaker 3: the game. You and I have been. We've seen it

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Speaker 3: up front. We know it. You know the personalities that people,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Historians are the game, all that kind of

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Speaker 3: good stuff. There's got to be there's our bias of prejudice.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, there's always there's always tough graders,

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Speaker 3: right and every every industry. As a scout, there's always

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Speaker 3: tough graders. As a manager coach, there's tough graders and

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Speaker 3: then and there's those that are very easy at this

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Speaker 3: and find all the reasons to put somebody like in

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Speaker 3: a Hall of Fame or in the starting lineup or whatever.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, more than anything, I just want to know

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Speaker 3: who did not vote for somebody and why when it's

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Speaker 3: so obvious that you should or have to vote for

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Speaker 3: in Anizio Suzuki.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that really interested me, Joe, is

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Speaker 1: when you look back on the career of Hall of famers,

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Speaker 1: because we all tend to think that the Hall of Famers

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Speaker 1: you can see them coming a mile away, they hit

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Speaker 1: the ground running, that you know, the greatness is obvious,

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Speaker 1: and that's not always the case, as you know. And

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something I know you've

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot as a manager when you have

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Speaker 1: players is never get in the way of greatness. And

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Speaker 1: I think eachier Row's story is a perfect example of that.

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Speaker 1: You have to remember that when each Row was drafted

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Speaker 1: in Japan, he did wasn't until the fourth round. Get this, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Each Row weighed one hundred and twenty pounds when he

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Speaker 1: was drafted one hundred and twenty pounds. His first manager

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Speaker 1: with the ORX blue Wave. Didn't think he was ever

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Speaker 1: going to hit with that style. It really hadn't changed.

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Speaker 1: He was actually a natural right handed hitter, and his

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Speaker 1: dad taught him to hit lefty because rightly so. He

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Speaker 1: reasoned that the left handed batter's box is closer to

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Speaker 1: first base than the right handed batter's box, and a

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Speaker 1: small guy with speed, why not get him the first base,

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Speaker 1: you know, a step closer each tier. Of course, took

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Speaker 1: that to another level with that gliding style. He seemed

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Speaker 1: to be hitting on the run on his way to

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Speaker 1: first base. But anyway, his first two years he didn't

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Speaker 1: play a whole lot with the ORX team. He hit

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Speaker 1: two twenty six, and after that season or ex changed

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Speaker 1: managers and they brought in I'm gonna call him the

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Speaker 1: Joe Madden of Japan, a guy by the name of

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Speaker 1: Okira Oji who played fourteen years in the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: Was never much of a hitter, but as a manager

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Speaker 1: a gained a repute for really bringing out the best

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Speaker 1: in players. You know, he was a guy who let

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Speaker 1: guys do I don't want to say anything they wanted.

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Speaker 1: But again, he didn't want to get in the way

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Speaker 1: of greatness, so he had a guy like Ichi Row

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Speaker 1: and he didn't want to change him at all. He said,

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Speaker 1: you hit the way you want to hit. He said,

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Speaker 1: you're going to bat lead off and play every day

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Speaker 1: for me, and did one other thing. Joe Ichiro Suzuki

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Speaker 1: is a very common name in Japan. E Heiro essentially

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Speaker 1: is a name that honors firstborn son. Suzuki is I

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Speaker 1: think the second most common name in Japan. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like the Joe Smith on the Org's Blue

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Speaker 1: Wave if you have someone named Ichiro Suzuki.

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Speaker 2: And Oji decided I want you to stand out.

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Speaker 1: We're going to put just Ichiro on the back of

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Speaker 1: your jersey and each Tiro is twenty to twenty six hitter.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I'm not really that comfortable with it, but

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Speaker 1: whatever my manager believes in me, I think I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: So he played with the name Etiro on the back

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Speaker 1: of his jersey, which got a lot of a tension.

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Speaker 1: But more than that, Ea Tierro just hit and hit

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Speaker 1: and hit. That first year, he played one hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty games. It's a full season over in Japan. He

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Speaker 1: had two hundred and ten hits. Two hundred and ten

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Speaker 1: hits in one hundred and thirty games he hit three

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Speaker 1: eighty five. It would be eighteen years before Eatier Road

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Speaker 1: did not hit three hundred in a season. I love

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Speaker 1: that story, Joe, because these Hall of Famers are not

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Speaker 1: always just ready made right out of the box. And

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Speaker 1: again it gets back to what you talked about. As

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Speaker 1: a manager, one of your responsibilities is to bring out

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Speaker 1: the greatness and a player and not get in the

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Speaker 1: way of greatness.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I love the idea that he just let him

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Speaker 3: go and do his thing. I mean, in a situation

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Speaker 3: like that, just listening to this whole story, you have

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Speaker 3: to let him fail with what he does well or naturally,

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Speaker 3: let's put it that way. So he had this unique style.

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Speaker 3: So did Stan Musual, So did Ted Williams. So did

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Speaker 3: Joe Demajo, So did Paul Mulatar, so did Julio Franco.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of good players, great players

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Speaker 3: that did things I thought I always thought were indigenous

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Speaker 3: to them. Even not a Hall of Famer, but Bob Boone,

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Speaker 3: the way he caught, the way he sat on the ground.

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Speaker 3: I mean that would be very popular today with going

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Speaker 3: down on one knee, but Boone actually put his butt

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Speaker 3: on the ground. If you look at a lot of

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Speaker 3: great players, just primarily in baseball. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: there's as many different kind of styles when it comes

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Speaker 3: to running backs or throwing the football, basketball shooters. I

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Speaker 3: mean me, Dick Barnett used to kick himself in the

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Speaker 3: butt when he shot. I mean, there's different release points, whatever.

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Speaker 3: But baseball has all these guys that did something a

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Speaker 3: little bit differently. But nevertheless, at the point of contact.

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Speaker 3: If you took a slow still photograph of vat Show

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Speaker 3: at contact, or Jeter at contact, or Demago at contact, whatever,

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Speaker 3: at contact, they all pretty much look the same. It's

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Speaker 3: just they get there differently. And a lot of that

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Speaker 3: is based on how your body works and like you said,

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Speaker 3: years of having done something one way physically mechanically. So

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Speaker 3: kudos to this coach the manager, because I believe in

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Speaker 3: that you just you permit the guy to have, permit

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Speaker 3: his body to work as it because if he's been

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Speaker 3: doing it since he's ten, twelve, thirteen years old, it's

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Speaker 3: very difficult to change the body movement even at twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one to twenty two. So all that makes sense

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Speaker 3: to me. I love that. And when you talk about

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Speaker 3: intro specifically as an opposition. As an opponent, he had

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Speaker 3: this really incredible ability to look out on the field

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Speaker 3: and I swear he'd watch where the defense was and

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Speaker 3: he would set it up mentally, I'm going to try

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Speaker 3: it at the ball here or there. It's almost like

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Speaker 3: he was hitting a fungo where you when you're hitting

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Speaker 3: fungos to infielder or not feel that you throw the

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Speaker 3: ball up in the air in front of you. He

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Speaker 3: hit it, and you're able to manipulate the bathead to

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Speaker 3: the point where you could hit the ball exactly where

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Speaker 3: you wanted to. He kind of like fungoed life pitching.

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Speaker 3: It was just incredible. Remember for us, my take on

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Speaker 3: it was to give him the lines on the infield,

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Speaker 3: third base and the first baseline. You just give him

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Speaker 3: that because I thought I saw too many balls in

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Speaker 3: both holes and like choppers over the mouth, so I

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Speaker 3: wanted to bunch the middle of the infield and then

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Speaker 3: in the outfield obviously opposite outfielder in etc. The thing

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Speaker 3: about him he could hit for pop if you wanted to,

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Speaker 3: But of course that wasn't his game. But an incredible

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Speaker 3: ability was it? We Willie Keeler was it that could

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Speaker 3: hit the ball where you ain't. He could absolute hit

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Speaker 3: the ball where you ate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we really killer who was born I think during

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Speaker 1: the Civil War, just about them. That's how long I

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Speaker 1: think you have to go back to find a true

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Speaker 1: comp to Etiro Suzuki. Eighty one percent of his hits

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Speaker 1: were singles. Rod Caru was in the seventies and percentage

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Speaker 1: of singles, he was more of a singles hitter than

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Speaker 1: Rod Caru. There's a great stat for you. There are

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Speaker 1: two seasons in which Etiro had more than two hundred singles,

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Speaker 1: not two hundred hits, two hundred singles. If you add

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Speaker 1: up every player who ever played the game of baseball

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Speaker 1: and all of their seasons with two hundred singles.

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Speaker 2: You come up with one. It's just amazing.

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Speaker 1: By the way Akiro og his manager with the Blue Wave,

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Speaker 1: who allowed him to flourish and be the player that

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Speaker 1: he was. He also had Hideo Nomo with the Contentsuit Buffaloes,

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Speaker 1: and Nomo had a unique way of training, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he was lucky that he had a manager like Ogi,

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Speaker 1: who you know, rather than conforming to industry standards, which

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Speaker 1: is very common in the industry, he allowed Nomo to

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Speaker 1: train the way that he wanted to train, and that

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Speaker 1: certainly worked out well for Hideo Nomo. But you're right

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Speaker 1: about each tierro Joe. I've never seen a player who

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Speaker 1: made an art out of hitting the ball softly. It

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Speaker 1: was just amazing. He was actually better off each row

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Speaker 1: was when he mishit the baseball, because if you were

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Speaker 1: an infielder and you had to move more than two

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Speaker 1: steps left, right, or in, you were not throwing him out.

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Speaker 1: And you could say he was lucky, but he wasn't

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Speaker 1: because the way that he was gliding and all the

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Speaker 1: while keeping his hands back, he was designed just to

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Speaker 1: get a piece of the baseball. He lived to get

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Speaker 1: his two hundred hits every year. He was going to

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Speaker 1: get them one way or the other. And the way

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Speaker 1: you pile hit upon hit year after year is you

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Speaker 1: never give in. Your goal is to just make contact

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Speaker 1: with the baseball. It is not to drive the ball

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Speaker 1: out of the park. And personally, for me, I found

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Speaker 1: that fascinating to watch, maybe especially because he played in

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Speaker 1: an era where we didn't see a lot of that. Listen,

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Speaker 1: he came along in two thousand and one and that

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Speaker 1: was right before steroid testing, and those three seasons are

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Speaker 1: the only three consecutive seasons in baseball history where the

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Speaker 1: slugging percentage was four to twenty seven or greater. So basically,

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Speaker 1: it was the greatest slugging era of Major League baseball

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Speaker 1: history and a long comes of modern wee Willie Keeler,

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Speaker 1: I'm just fascinating that Joe, that he came over with

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Speaker 1: that skill set and did not try to be someone else,

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Speaker 1: to be a different kind of hitter based on what

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Speaker 1: was happening around him in the game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as you're talking like that all the way through it,

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Wade Bogs. Also Boxy. He did kind

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Speaker 3: of that game. Also. He was able to spray the

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Speaker 3: ball around as he wanted to. But then again, if

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Speaker 3: you ever watched Wait VP, the guy the ball can

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Speaker 3: go far. If you watch each ROMVP, he would just

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Speaker 3: show it off in Seattle once in a while he

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Speaker 3: started pulling the ball into the bleachers and I remember,

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Speaker 3: and I think, I don't know if I've relaid this story.

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Speaker 3: On a two thousand and nine All Star game, met

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Speaker 3: up with him in a restaurant the night before the

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Speaker 3: game and send a bottle of wine over to his table,

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Speaker 3: and I said, I'm sending this battle with the intent

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Speaker 3: that you hit a home run on the first pitch

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Speaker 3: of the game tomorrow night. That was that was my

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Speaker 3: line to him. He kind of smiled the giggle at that.

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Speaker 3: The next night, first pitch he hits, he smokes it

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Speaker 3: down the right field line, but it hooked Balt. But

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Speaker 3: my point is this guy could actually, like we're talking about,

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Speaker 3: do what he wanted to do in the batter's box.

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Speaker 3: He knew his game, he knew it worked for him.

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Speaker 3: He knew that if he tried to power the ball,

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Speaker 3: put the ball in the air, like you're saying, hit

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Speaker 3: it too, well, well it's more than likely going to

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Speaker 3: be an out more than not. And you're right. Frustratingly,

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Speaker 3: ball was always falling in front of outfielders running out

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Speaker 3: their base less than two ols. He's probably the last

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Speaker 3: guy you wanted to see at the plate under those circumstances.

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Speaker 3: The ball is going to be moved somewhere somehow. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's all of that. He is that version of the

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Speaker 3: Unicorn at that particular moment in time. And I really

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Speaker 3: enjoyed my conversations with him. And on top of they

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Speaker 3: haven't even spoken about it. What an outfielder, what an

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Speaker 3: arm and the speed and everything else. Complete baseball player,

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Speaker 3: not just a guy that had all those singles. And

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Speaker 3: I didn't even realize to that extent, but this guy

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Speaker 3: was a complete player who was a force, very difficult

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Speaker 3: to defend, and on defense you had to know where

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Speaker 3: you're as a base runner, what's going on? Where's hetro at?

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Speaker 3: Because that was one of the better runs in the

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Speaker 3: game at that time.

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Speaker 1: So there's a famous story, and there's many versions of this,

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Speaker 1: and I'll give you the one that I think is

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Speaker 1: closest to the truth. In two thousand and one, he

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Speaker 1: hero signs with the Mariners and it.

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Speaker 4: Was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: He was the first position player to jump from Nipon

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Speaker 1: Pro Baseball to MLB, so there's a lot of pressure

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Speaker 1: on him.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of hype about how good is he.

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Speaker 1: So he starts with the Mariners in spring training and

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Speaker 1: kind of like this happened with Shohei Otani, you know,

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Speaker 1: first spring training, he's getting the bat knocked out of

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Speaker 1: his hands. But with each Eero's case, this is what

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Speaker 1: he does.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: He's hitting weak round balls to the left side, he's

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Speaker 1: laking out infield hits. It's each row being each heierro

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Speaker 1: the manager is Lou Panella, not the most patient guy

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Speaker 1: in the world. So finally deep into spring training and

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Speaker 1: Lou says to him, hey, Son, you know Lou loved

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Speaker 1: to call people's son, right, He said, Son, you need

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Speaker 1: to pull the ball. I need to see you pull

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Speaker 1: the ball, and Ezio says, no problem. Next time up

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Speaker 1: in the game, he hits an absolute bomb to the

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Speaker 1: polls side home run, walks back in the dugout, puts

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Speaker 1: his helmet away and says to Lou, are you happy now?

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Speaker 1: And Lou says to him, Son, for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the year, you can do whatever you want, and he

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Speaker 1: pretty much did.

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Speaker 4: He was the MVP and the Rookie of the Year.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, Joe, he had the ability if he

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Speaker 1: wanted to just absolutely crush a baseball. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: he could hit seventy home runs. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: at all, but there was power in that bat. He

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Speaker 1: was just so gifted at getting the bat to the

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Speaker 1: baseball that if he wanted to hit pull side, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he'd sacrificed batting average, but he could do it on

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Speaker 1: those occasions when he wanted. Famous quote from him too,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is back in the day again when

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Speaker 1: Nike had that ad, remember that chicks Dig the log

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Speaker 1: Ball ad? Oh yeah, yeah, break Mannix Tom Blavin. Right,

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Speaker 1: So each year, of course, was counter to all that

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Speaker 1: was going on. I mean, players are getting comically huge

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Speaker 1: with the help of peds. And here's each year just

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Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and seventy five pounds soak and

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Speaker 1: wet knocking out his singles. And they asked him about

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Speaker 1: this ad campaign, chickstick the log ball, and he said,

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Speaker 1: chicks to dig home runs aren't the ones who appealed

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Speaker 1: to me. I think there's sexiness in infield hits because

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Speaker 1: they require technique. I'd rather impress the chicks with my

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Speaker 1: technique than my brute strength.

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Speaker 4: How about that for self?

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Speaker 3: That is as answer right there? Oh my god. But

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Speaker 3: but again, as you again laying all this out, and

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Speaker 3: I'm just like a kind of a somewhat of a

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Speaker 3: devil's advocate. Would he play today? Would he be giving

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to do all this today?

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Speaker 4: Great question, you know, and great even though you can.

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Speaker 3: Even go like a Pete Rose and all these other

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Speaker 3: single sitters of their time, the kid, the guy with

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Speaker 3: the padres from the mar Yeah. I mean, here's an

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Speaker 3: example of a guy that keeps bumping around, and anytime

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Speaker 3: you read anything about him, you know his ability to

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Speaker 3: get hits and have to high batting average and be

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Speaker 3: a batting title winner is not really attractive to the

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Speaker 3: game much anymore. So I want to believe, like with

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Speaker 3: an intro, because this game was so complete, you know,

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Speaker 3: with the speed and everything else in the defense, that

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Speaker 3: there would still be like value regarding how the mathematical

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Speaker 3: equations worked out regarding war and whatever, and that he

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Speaker 3: would still be appealing because of his complete game. But

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Speaker 3: offensively speaking, and you probably have the information there. How

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Speaker 3: high was his on base percentage? I don't even know

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Speaker 3: what his on base percentage was. I think was pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he did not walk a lot, exactly a guy

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Speaker 1: like Steve Finley who was a good ballplayer. Yeah, more

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Speaker 1: walks and more total bases than each heer row. Each

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Speaker 1: Row will go into the Hall of Fame with the

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Speaker 1: lowest adjusted ops of any corner outfielder in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. He'll be below lou Brock. He's at one

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Speaker 1: oh seven, so barely just seven percent above league average

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Speaker 1: as a corner outfielder. That's et Ro Suzuki, So his

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Speaker 1: stock in trade obviously when we're not talking about base

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Speaker 1: running and speed and defense right here, we're just talking

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Speaker 1: about the offensive game playing at corner outfield singles hit

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Speaker 1: or didn't walk a lot that was each row. But

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, Joe, I think in today's game

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Speaker 1: that still should be valued. I want that guy up

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Speaker 1: there like our eyes, who's going to put the ball

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Speaker 1: in play with guys on base.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, again, you have to look at Onon Soto now,

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Speaker 3: I mean Drake Soto down in the amount of money

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Speaker 3: he just received and whatever offensive player you know, lacks

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Speaker 3: a little bit on defense, slacks with his arm, wlacks

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Speaker 3: with his base running, but nevertheless almost makes a billion

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Speaker 3: dollar billion dollars based on this. His ability to get

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Speaker 3: on basis probably his primary ability. I mean, he hit

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Speaker 3: some home runs, agreed, And with that he's drives in

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Speaker 3: some runs of course, so there's this offensive value. But

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, if he didn't have

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Speaker 3: the discerning eye that he has Soto, which he does,

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Speaker 3: he would not be as attractive. So a big part

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Speaker 3: of his allure to today's game is his ability to

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Speaker 3: control the strikes own you can hear a lot of that.

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Speaker 3: He has an organized strikes on which I'm into, don't

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Speaker 3: get me wrong, But to think that he's getting paid

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Speaker 3: on that level compared to other guys like at Tiascar Hernandez.

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Speaker 3: If you look at his overall numbers, not that far

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Speaker 3: behind in the but there's a great disparitying amount of

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Speaker 3: money these guys make. But I think it really comes

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Speaker 3: down to one thing. It's just on base and the

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Speaker 3: ability to get on base and the ability to control strikes,

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Speaker 3: and he's getting primarily paid for that when it gets

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Speaker 3: to that big number. That's the primary reason why he's

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Speaker 3: getting all that money. And again there's a good argument

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Speaker 3: of discussion regarding the worth of that and was it

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Speaker 3: really justified compared to some other guys that are pretty

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Speaker 3: good hitters.

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Speaker 2: Also all good points. Hey, listen to Easier Row.

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Speaker 1: I think there's no doubt he was born to play baseball, right,

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Speaker 1: just a pure hitter. He will be elected to the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. We'll find out what that percentage is

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Speaker 1: on January twenty first. In the meantime, Joe, after this

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Speaker 1: quick break, I want to talk to you and dive

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Speaker 1: into your scouting background here on the multi sport athlete.

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Speaker 1: There's an outfielder for the Cincinnati Reads is actually going

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Speaker 1: back to college to play football. What happens when the

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Speaker 1: great athlete just doesn't make it in baseball.

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Speaker 4: We'll talk about that right after this.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts. Joe, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if you saw it was a minor note here.

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Speaker 1: Bubba Thompson, outfielder with the Cincinnati Reds. He's actually been

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of organizations. Originally a number one draft pick,

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Speaker 1: first round pick of the Texas Rangers. He is going

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Speaker 1: back to college. He's going to South Alabama to play quarterback.

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Speaker 1: He just basically cried uncle on his major league career,

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Speaker 1: or at least as attempt to be a continue to

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Speaker 1: be a professional baseball player. He's bounced around, He's been

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Speaker 1: waived five times in the last two years, had trouble

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Speaker 1: making contact, speed player, good size, all over six feet

402
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Speaker 1: two hundred pounds. But he's going back to play college football.

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Speaker 1: And Joe, I know you've come across a lot of

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Speaker 1: multi sport athletes. We hear a lot about some guys

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Speaker 1: who do try out with baseball, it doesn't work out,

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Speaker 1: they go to football, I'm not sure if I know

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Speaker 1: a comp the other way around, where you go play

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Speaker 1: football and you stay away from the game of baseball

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Speaker 1: for years and then go back.

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Speaker 4: It's just so skilled specific.

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Speaker 1: Bubba Thompson has got a real shot of being a

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Speaker 1: really good college quarterback. There's no question about that. But

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Speaker 1: give me your first reaction, Joe, when you hear these stories,

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Speaker 1: whether Jog's the memory of other guys you thought were

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Speaker 1: great athletes who just you know, didn't translate their athletic

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Speaker 1: skills to the very specific skills of baseball.

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Speaker 3: Just pointing out some that did. I mean you look

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Speaker 3: at a Dion Sanders or Bo Jackson, Brian Jordan, these guys,

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Speaker 3: you know they they were able to do both things well.

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Speaker 3: I mean Dion Sanders, I think, and both of course,

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Speaker 3: probably the most obviously outstanding that we're pretty successful, did

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Speaker 3: well on both sides. I was with Bo with the

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Speaker 3: Angels and the one day, just to tell you how

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Speaker 3: skillful this guy was, we were worming up in the

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Speaker 3: outfield at Anaheim Stadium and there had been at earthquake

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Speaker 3: where they when the stadium was still encircled, the scoreboard

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Speaker 3: was impacted in a left center field and it's high.

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Speaker 3: It's way up there. So there's a bunch of workers

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Speaker 3: up there riveting and doing whatever they have to do

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Speaker 3: to fix the scoreboard. We come out to wear them

431
00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:20,918
Speaker 3: up and they start yelling, Bo, throw us a ball.

432
00:21:21,438 --> 00:21:24,238
Speaker 3: So like we're down on the right on the ground there,

433
00:21:24,278 --> 00:21:27,518
Speaker 3: looking straight up and right near the warning track. Both

434
00:21:27,558 --> 00:21:30,518
Speaker 3: picks up a ball had not warmed up whatsoever. Picks

435
00:21:30,598 --> 00:21:33,318
Speaker 3: up a ball takes one crow hop and it's a guy,

436
00:21:33,398 --> 00:21:35,558
Speaker 3: one of the workers right in the rivet. Mit. I mean,

437
00:21:35,558 --> 00:21:38,038
Speaker 3: that's just straight up, straight up. I don't even know

438
00:21:38,078 --> 00:21:40,158
Speaker 3: how high that would have been and what had equals

439
00:21:40,198 --> 00:21:42,558
Speaker 3: and the kind of like a clubhead speed it got

440
00:21:43,038 --> 00:21:44,678
Speaker 3: took to get the ball there. But he did that.

441
00:21:45,238 --> 00:21:47,558
Speaker 3: He did that. I threw embatting practice, and at that time,

442
00:21:47,718 --> 00:21:50,958
Speaker 3: guys were not and we're playing in Toronto and he's

443
00:21:51,038 --> 00:21:54,158
Speaker 3: hitting balls off that restaurant in dead center field, and

444
00:21:54,198 --> 00:21:56,278
Speaker 3: I'm like, whoa. I mean, if you watch other guys

445
00:21:56,318 --> 00:21:59,158
Speaker 3: and eventually Mark McGuire whatever, but Bo's hitting balls off

446
00:21:59,198 --> 00:22:02,038
Speaker 3: of that best arm. I actually, at the end of

447
00:22:02,078 --> 00:22:06,638
Speaker 3: his career, I was getting a morsels here, he says,

448
00:22:06,998 --> 00:22:09,838
Speaker 3: before we let this thing keep. Because the fact that

449
00:22:09,918 --> 00:22:12,798
Speaker 3: his legs or hip was bothering whatever. Can we put

450
00:22:12,838 --> 00:22:14,478
Speaker 3: him on the mound first? Can we least see if

451
00:22:14,478 --> 00:22:16,078
Speaker 3: this guy could be a relief pitcher. I swear I

452
00:22:16,118 --> 00:22:18,518
Speaker 3: meant that sincerely. I've never one of the best throwing

453
00:22:18,598 --> 00:22:20,198
Speaker 3: arms I've ever seen in my life. And then, of

454
00:22:20,238 --> 00:22:22,838
Speaker 3: course you could talk about the football all you want,

455
00:22:22,878 --> 00:22:26,518
Speaker 3: but I had that personal experience with bo. It was

456
00:22:27,038 --> 00:22:30,438
Speaker 3: he was that frigging impressive man with what he can do,

457
00:22:30,478 --> 00:22:32,198
Speaker 3: and I still wish that we had put him on

458
00:22:32,238 --> 00:22:37,118
Speaker 3: the mount. On another note, Kirk mccaskell Captain Kirk with

459
00:22:37,158 --> 00:22:42,358
Speaker 3: the Angels in the minor leagues. He I scotted him

460
00:22:42,478 --> 00:22:45,398
Speaker 3: at Phoenix College. Can remember the year of the draft

461
00:22:45,478 --> 00:22:49,718
Speaker 3: is like in the early eighties, and I al Golis

462
00:22:49,758 --> 00:22:51,278
Speaker 3: asked me to go double check him. So I go

463
00:22:51,278 --> 00:22:52,878
Speaker 3: out there and I'm watching him pitch right before the

464
00:22:52,958 --> 00:22:55,558
Speaker 3: draft so on like ninety ninety one, ninety two, which

465
00:22:55,598 --> 00:22:59,398
Speaker 3: was really good with a nasty, big spin and curveball.

466
00:22:59,718 --> 00:23:02,758
Speaker 3: Loved him, absolutely loved him, and we drafted him and

467
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:06,118
Speaker 3: I become his manager in Salem, Oregon. But he also

468
00:23:06,118 --> 00:23:08,958
Speaker 3: get drafted by the Winnipeg Jets. His dad, Ted was

469
00:23:08,958 --> 00:23:12,398
Speaker 3: a hockey player, and I think he actually appeared in slapshot.

470
00:23:12,478 --> 00:23:15,558
Speaker 3: The movie is Pop did So Captain. We go up

471
00:23:15,558 --> 00:23:18,438
Speaker 3: to Salem and I'm in charge of signing him or not.

472
00:23:19,358 --> 00:23:22,638
Speaker 3: Larry him sends me the contracts and he had two contracts.

473
00:23:22,638 --> 00:23:26,278
Speaker 3: One to give up hockey completely and just signed for baseball.

474
00:23:26,278 --> 00:23:28,718
Speaker 3: I think that was like sixty thousand bucks and the

475
00:23:28,798 --> 00:23:31,838
Speaker 3: one to do both left it open, left the door

476
00:23:31,878 --> 00:23:34,078
Speaker 3: open from the play hockey was like twenty five I

477
00:23:34,118 --> 00:23:38,158
Speaker 3: think twenty five thousand. So he signed that one, and

478
00:23:38,318 --> 00:23:39,918
Speaker 3: after a couple of years he just took off and

479
00:23:39,918 --> 00:23:42,678
Speaker 3: played for the Winnipeg Jets a bit and then came

480
00:23:42,758 --> 00:23:46,038
Speaker 3: on back because I wasn't really watching him, but obviously

481
00:23:46,318 --> 00:23:48,278
Speaker 3: maybe it hurt too much speat in hockey or whatever,

482
00:23:48,318 --> 00:23:50,878
Speaker 3: but came back and had, you know, a decent pitching

483
00:23:50,878 --> 00:23:52,478
Speaker 3: career with the Agles, and I think then with the

484
00:23:52,478 --> 00:23:55,598
Speaker 3: White Sox. So on a first hand basis, that was

485
00:23:55,598 --> 00:23:58,838
Speaker 3: really unusual to have a baseball hockey kind of a

486
00:23:58,878 --> 00:24:03,358
Speaker 3: situation with Kurt Kurt mccaskell. So I've had that done

487
00:24:03,398 --> 00:24:06,358
Speaker 3: with Bo. It's just like you could talk, we consider

488
00:24:06,438 --> 00:24:08,358
Speaker 3: and create a list of guys like this, and it's

489
00:24:08,358 --> 00:24:10,678
Speaker 3: going to be a very short list. I think a

490
00:24:10,718 --> 00:24:13,158
Speaker 3: big part of it is just the training component, the

491
00:24:13,198 --> 00:24:16,238
Speaker 3: physical component. Your body needs a break man. Sometimes these

492
00:24:16,278 --> 00:24:18,918
Speaker 3: guys are like like Bo was just a different human

493
00:24:18,958 --> 00:24:21,758
Speaker 3: being and you could withstand all that stuff, but it's

494
00:24:21,798 --> 00:24:25,318
Speaker 3: going to be very it's it's very difficult to do,

495
00:24:25,438 --> 00:24:27,958
Speaker 3: and it's like he I think it's I don't even

496
00:24:27,958 --> 00:24:31,198
Speaker 3: know it's easier. Show hate doing hitting and pitching or

497
00:24:31,598 --> 00:24:33,598
Speaker 3: playing two sports on a on a major league level,

498
00:24:33,638 --> 00:24:36,958
Speaker 3: especially today where the training has been so advanced, the

499
00:24:37,038 --> 00:24:40,638
Speaker 3: size and speed, especially in football is really accelerated because

500
00:24:40,678 --> 00:24:43,158
Speaker 3: you're not't even talking about David Busher. Maybe in basketball,

501
00:24:43,558 --> 00:24:48,598
Speaker 3: Michael Jordan tried it. Even Chuck Connolly the rifleman.

502
00:24:48,318 --> 00:24:50,398
Speaker 4: Right Connors, Yeah, absolutely.

503
00:24:50,118 --> 00:24:52,558
Speaker 3: Chuck Connors. Excuse me, he tried it. So there's all

504
00:24:52,598 --> 00:24:56,198
Speaker 3: these but again it's like so few and far between.

505
00:24:56,238 --> 00:24:59,718
Speaker 3: But my best examples were Bo, which he could have

506
00:24:59,718 --> 00:25:04,278
Speaker 3: done anything, and Captain Kirk and hockey and baseball. I

507
00:25:04,358 --> 00:25:06,118
Speaker 3: liked him as a baseball pitcher and like I said,

508
00:25:06,158 --> 00:25:08,478
Speaker 3: he had some success. But those are my personal experiences.

509
00:25:08,798 --> 00:25:11,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, those who can do both are absolutely freaks.

510
00:25:11,318 --> 00:25:13,358
Speaker 1: There's no question. I think especially when it comes to

511
00:25:13,398 --> 00:25:16,198
Speaker 1: the game of baseball, it is just so skills specific,

512
00:25:16,278 --> 00:25:18,438
Speaker 1: and even more so I think than it used to be, Joe,

513
00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:21,078
Speaker 1: and I think you kind of hit it that it's

514
00:25:21,078 --> 00:25:24,438
Speaker 1: just got the training of it, the technology. It's such

515
00:25:24,478 --> 00:25:27,278
Speaker 1: a skills specific sport that it's hard to dabble in

516
00:25:27,358 --> 00:25:32,118
Speaker 1: both and succeed at both levels. Now, I remember Danny

517
00:25:32,158 --> 00:25:35,358
Speaker 1: Ainge played baseball for a while. Obviously he goes to

518
00:25:35,398 --> 00:25:39,558
Speaker 1: play basketball, became a great NBA player. As far as football, guys,

519
00:25:39,638 --> 00:25:42,438
Speaker 1: guys who left baseball to go play college football, it's

520
00:25:42,438 --> 00:25:46,038
Speaker 1: been done before. Chris Wenke, Drew Henson, you remember him

521
00:25:46,078 --> 00:25:48,678
Speaker 1: at Michigan, Yeah, brandon ed and Oklahoma State.

522
00:25:49,998 --> 00:25:51,758
Speaker 4: Here's an example too. You. I want to talk to

523
00:25:51,758 --> 00:25:52,478
Speaker 4: you about Joe.

524
00:25:52,518 --> 00:25:55,558
Speaker 1: And again it gets back to when you scout a player,

525
00:25:55,758 --> 00:25:59,038
Speaker 1: trying to find out not only about skill, but what's

526
00:25:59,078 --> 00:26:00,358
Speaker 1: in a player's head and heart.

527
00:26:00,998 --> 00:26:01,478
Speaker 4: There was a.

528
00:26:01,438 --> 00:26:05,838
Speaker 1: Player, a high school player in Georgia named Donovan Tate.

529
00:26:06,478 --> 00:26:09,558
Speaker 1: He's in the two thousand and nine draft. The Padres

530
00:26:09,718 --> 00:26:11,918
Speaker 1: have a guy on him, a scout on him all

531
00:26:11,958 --> 00:26:16,478
Speaker 1: throughout the year. This guy literally follows him after games

532
00:26:16,518 --> 00:26:18,478
Speaker 1: to see who he's hanging out with and what kind

533
00:26:18,518 --> 00:26:21,358
Speaker 1: of food he's eating. So they had a complete dossier

534
00:26:21,438 --> 00:26:23,678
Speaker 1: on this guy, as you would for a number one pick.

535
00:26:23,758 --> 00:26:25,958
Speaker 1: Padress drafting number three overall.

536
00:26:26,558 --> 00:26:27,638
Speaker 4: This is a draft that.

537
00:26:27,598 --> 00:26:30,478
Speaker 1: Has, by the way, another high school outfielder on the board,

538
00:26:30,558 --> 00:26:34,398
Speaker 1: Mike Trout okay at a high school pitcher named Zach Wheeler.

539
00:26:34,438 --> 00:26:37,918
Speaker 1: They're both also in this draft. Padres take Donovan Tate

540
00:26:37,958 --> 00:26:41,998
Speaker 1: at number three. He was committed to playing football at

541
00:26:41,998 --> 00:26:44,358
Speaker 1: the University of North Carolina and actually went to some

542
00:26:44,398 --> 00:26:46,998
Speaker 1: workouts there with them. Starting the year at North Carolina,

543
00:26:47,078 --> 00:26:50,398
Speaker 1: but the Padres give him almost seven million dollars to sign,

544
00:26:50,758 --> 00:26:53,278
Speaker 1: and he had a bunch of injuries in baseball. He

545
00:26:53,318 --> 00:26:56,038
Speaker 1: couldn't stay healthy on the field. The Dodgers tried to

546
00:26:56,038 --> 00:26:59,598
Speaker 1: give him a tryout and go at in the minor leagues.

547
00:26:59,878 --> 00:27:01,358
Speaker 1: If I only decide he's going to go back to

548
00:27:01,398 --> 00:27:03,918
Speaker 1: college and play football, so he goes to the Universe

549
00:27:04,238 --> 00:27:04,918
Speaker 1: of Arizona.

550
00:27:05,198 --> 00:27:06,398
Speaker 4: It just didn't work out.

551
00:27:06,518 --> 00:27:08,398
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he was away from a too long,

552
00:27:08,478 --> 00:27:10,798
Speaker 1: but he was a quarterback at Arizona, got in. He

553
00:27:10,878 --> 00:27:12,758
Speaker 1: completed one pass at the end of the year.

554
00:27:12,798 --> 00:27:13,318
Speaker 4: That was it.

555
00:27:13,438 --> 00:27:15,358
Speaker 1: He had to move on with his life. It wasn't

556
00:27:15,358 --> 00:27:16,558
Speaker 1: happening for him in football.

557
00:27:17,478 --> 00:27:19,438
Speaker 2: But you know, Joe, I go back and.

558
00:27:19,438 --> 00:27:20,718
Speaker 4: Think about it. As a scout.

559
00:27:20,758 --> 00:27:21,278
Speaker 2: You know this.

560
00:27:21,398 --> 00:27:23,918
Speaker 1: You can spend so much time in the player, you

561
00:27:23,958 --> 00:27:26,438
Speaker 1: can have a complete report on him. It doesn't mean

562
00:27:26,518 --> 00:27:29,718
Speaker 1: you were wrong about the player. There's a lot of

563
00:27:29,718 --> 00:27:32,158
Speaker 1: things you just can't see. All you can do is

564
00:27:32,238 --> 00:27:35,278
Speaker 1: make a judgment at that time and place in terms

565
00:27:35,278 --> 00:27:37,598
Speaker 1: of what you see. And I know you look back

566
00:27:37,638 --> 00:27:39,798
Speaker 1: on it now you say, how can the Padre have

567
00:27:39,878 --> 00:27:43,078
Speaker 1: drafted Donovan Tate over Mike Trout? To high school outfielders,

568
00:27:43,078 --> 00:27:45,318
Speaker 1: one's going to Hall of Fame and one just never

569
00:27:45,438 --> 00:27:50,278
Speaker 1: even got to Major League Baseball. But give me a sense, Joe,

570
00:27:50,318 --> 00:27:52,198
Speaker 1: when you go out there and you scout these high

571
00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:54,878
Speaker 1: school kids seventeen eighteen years old, and you're trying to

572
00:27:54,918 --> 00:27:57,878
Speaker 1: complete a picture when they're not complete young men at all.

573
00:27:58,398 --> 00:28:01,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, high school kids are really not that college kids

574
00:28:01,198 --> 00:28:03,558
Speaker 3: are any easier, but high school kids are really difficult.

575
00:28:03,598 --> 00:28:06,718
Speaker 3: And the times that I had done that scouted. Of course,

576
00:28:07,158 --> 00:28:10,198
Speaker 3: Dick Schofield had Scoey when he was a baby coming

577
00:28:10,238 --> 00:28:15,478
Speaker 3: out of Springfield, Illinois. I go up to Idaho Falls

578
00:28:15,758 --> 00:28:18,198
Speaker 3: and he was our number one pick. I think it

579
00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:21,318
Speaker 3: was third or fourth in the country. I think his

580
00:28:21,438 --> 00:28:23,518
Speaker 3: bonus at that time I was nineteen eighty one, was

581
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:27,198
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand bucks or something like that. Now, this

582
00:28:27,278 --> 00:28:31,158
Speaker 3: guy here, if you think about his career, very pedestrian,

583
00:28:31,638 --> 00:28:35,198
Speaker 3: but probably one of the best young players I've ever

584
00:28:35,278 --> 00:28:40,438
Speaker 3: had physically talent wise. I remember spring trainer instructional League,

585
00:28:40,718 --> 00:28:43,518
Speaker 3: Preston Gomez shows up and Preston and I are talking

586
00:28:43,598 --> 00:28:46,878
Speaker 3: watching him from a distance by the third base side,

587
00:28:47,198 --> 00:28:50,398
Speaker 3: and we both agreed, this guy's gonna hit. But where

588
00:28:50,398 --> 00:28:52,318
Speaker 3: are we going to play him. They thought he can't play,

589
00:28:52,398 --> 00:28:55,678
Speaker 3: he's gonna outgrow being a shortstop after the third base.

590
00:28:56,158 --> 00:28:58,158
Speaker 3: But the guy's definitely and hit hit for powers. I

591
00:28:58,238 --> 00:29:00,518
Speaker 3: mean I first one of the first games we played

592
00:29:00,558 --> 00:29:02,438
Speaker 3: was up in Helena, Montana, and he hit a ball

593
00:29:02,478 --> 00:29:05,158
Speaker 3: across the street on a roof on a garage and

594
00:29:05,158 --> 00:29:07,318
Speaker 3: I said, here we go. But then, of course it

595
00:29:07,478 --> 00:29:11,678
Speaker 3: just evened out. And it's not because of a makeup plot.

596
00:29:11,878 --> 00:29:14,518
Speaker 3: Loves scow he still loves Scoye, but the talent. Eventually

597
00:29:15,078 --> 00:29:16,358
Speaker 3: he got hit in the head. He got hit and

598
00:29:16,438 --> 00:29:21,198
Speaker 3: hit an instruction league game by Mitch Williams's brother Bruce

599
00:29:21,478 --> 00:29:23,398
Speaker 3: who also threwe hundred miles an hour. I think it

600
00:29:23,438 --> 00:29:26,158
Speaker 3: was the last spring Instruction League game of that one

601
00:29:26,198 --> 00:29:29,758
Speaker 3: particular year. So here's the guy with unlimited talent, high

602
00:29:29,758 --> 00:29:34,158
Speaker 3: school kid. Everybody was right, hundred percent right, and then

603
00:29:34,238 --> 00:29:36,078
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, boom, once shot to the helmet

604
00:29:36,118 --> 00:29:40,078
Speaker 3: and the hitting wasn't as assertive as it had been.

605
00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:43,758
Speaker 3: Defense proliferates, he gets even better, ends up being a

606
00:29:43,758 --> 00:29:47,158
Speaker 3: great shortstop who hit on occasion. So you saw all

607
00:29:47,198 --> 00:29:49,998
Speaker 3: these different tools coming into it, and until he used

608
00:29:49,998 --> 00:29:51,998
Speaker 3: to whistleballs in the right center as a baby in

609
00:29:52,038 --> 00:29:55,518
Speaker 3: Idaho Falls, and I got, damn, this is the real deal.

610
00:29:55,558 --> 00:29:57,518
Speaker 3: This guy is going to be a complete player. I

611
00:29:57,518 --> 00:29:59,638
Speaker 3: had Dicky Than as a roommate. Richard got hit in

612
00:29:59,638 --> 00:30:02,798
Speaker 3: the head. Also, Richard was my roommate in Quad Cities

613
00:30:02,838 --> 00:30:05,598
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy six and he was on his way,

614
00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:07,798
Speaker 3: went from the Angels, gets traded to Houston. He's going

615
00:30:07,838 --> 00:30:09,718
Speaker 3: to be a guy, and he is a guy. One

616
00:30:09,718 --> 00:30:12,598
Speaker 3: of the toughest guys I've met. Still stay in touch

617
00:30:12,638 --> 00:30:15,358
Speaker 3: with Richard gets hitting hit by Mike Torres, I think,

618
00:30:15,918 --> 00:30:18,878
Speaker 3: and eventually comes back and plays in the big leagues

619
00:30:18,878 --> 00:30:21,918
Speaker 3: and really almost blind. Seriously, you can just see out

620
00:30:21,918 --> 00:30:24,278
Speaker 3: of one eye barely, And this dude's out there playing

621
00:30:24,278 --> 00:30:27,678
Speaker 3: and actually survived on a major league level. But again,

622
00:30:27,718 --> 00:30:30,958
Speaker 3: here's a great player that was impacted by an incident,

623
00:30:31,278 --> 00:30:35,358
Speaker 3: and there's others that do wash out. And I've had

624
00:30:35,398 --> 00:30:39,718
Speaker 3: players that when they don't eventually get to the big leagues,

625
00:30:39,718 --> 00:30:44,158
Speaker 3: I get disappointed as in myself as a developer, as

626
00:30:44,318 --> 00:30:46,398
Speaker 3: a coach and a manager, because I thought, gosh, these

627
00:30:46,398 --> 00:30:49,318
Speaker 3: guys really had the ability. But at some point there's

628
00:30:49,358 --> 00:30:52,718
Speaker 3: this little thing about every one of us that either

629
00:30:52,838 --> 00:30:54,998
Speaker 3: permits us to be that player in the big leagues

630
00:30:55,558 --> 00:30:57,278
Speaker 3: or restricts us from being that. And a lot of

631
00:30:57,318 --> 00:31:03,478
Speaker 3: it's internal demons, I'm not good enough, anxiety levels, they

632
00:31:03,518 --> 00:31:06,118
Speaker 3: just can't breathe in the moment. All this stuff is

633
00:31:06,118 --> 00:31:08,598
Speaker 3: a part of this that it's really almost impossible to

634
00:31:08,598 --> 00:31:11,318
Speaker 3: measure as a scout. So you check the physical boxes,

635
00:31:11,358 --> 00:31:14,598
Speaker 3: do your best ability to your best abilities. You try

636
00:31:14,638 --> 00:31:17,838
Speaker 3: to ascertain where's this guy like mentally cand he handle

637
00:31:17,878 --> 00:31:21,558
Speaker 3: all this? Last point. Geene Thompson, my favorite GINO said

638
00:31:21,958 --> 00:31:24,758
Speaker 3: the one thing you'd always imagine, and I took it

639
00:31:24,798 --> 00:31:28,238
Speaker 3: with him. Could you see that person that player walking

640
00:31:28,238 --> 00:31:29,758
Speaker 3: out in a big lead field because they see the

641
00:31:29,838 --> 00:31:31,998
Speaker 3: name on his back of his jersey. And if I

642
00:31:32,038 --> 00:31:34,358
Speaker 3: could envision that, that would be the last reason why

643
00:31:34,878 --> 00:31:36,918
Speaker 3: I would probably put him on my draft list and

644
00:31:36,998 --> 00:31:39,118
Speaker 3: say that this guy could be a big league player. So,

645
00:31:39,198 --> 00:31:42,478
Speaker 3: after all this evaluation said and done, you know, the

646
00:31:42,478 --> 00:31:44,398
Speaker 3: reality is, can I see this guy walk out at

647
00:31:44,478 --> 00:31:46,678
Speaker 3: Yankee State and name on the back of his jersey

648
00:31:47,118 --> 00:31:49,478
Speaker 3: and feel like this is a possibility or not? And

649
00:31:49,518 --> 00:31:51,638
Speaker 3: that's something that just really comes to experience.

650
00:31:52,598 --> 00:31:54,478
Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, we'll take a quick break. When we get

651
00:31:54,518 --> 00:31:56,078
Speaker 1: back on the Book of Joe. I want to talk

652
00:31:56,118 --> 00:32:01,318
Speaker 1: about the passing of Felix Mantilla, a colorful player, really

653
00:32:01,358 --> 00:32:04,158
Speaker 1: interesting career, and it gives us an excuse to talk

654
00:32:04,198 --> 00:32:05,518
Speaker 1: about Casey Stengel.

655
00:32:06,198 --> 00:32:20,638
Speaker 4: We'll do that right after this Welcome Back to the

656
00:32:20,638 --> 00:32:21,838
Speaker 4: Book of Joe podcast.

657
00:32:22,358 --> 00:32:25,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mentioned Felix Mantilla, the infielder passed away.

658
00:32:26,718 --> 00:32:27,638
Speaker 4: What a career he had.

659
00:32:27,678 --> 00:32:29,038
Speaker 1: First of all, he was on the field for the

660
00:32:29,078 --> 00:32:31,918
Speaker 1: last out of the nineteen fifty seven World Series with

661
00:32:32,158 --> 00:32:36,198
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Braves. He was actually the first base runner who

662
00:32:36,238 --> 00:32:40,078
Speaker 1: reached against Harvey Haddocks. Remember that near perfect game Harvey

663
00:32:40,078 --> 00:32:43,718
Speaker 1: goes twelve perfect innings and Felix reached based on an

664
00:32:43,718 --> 00:32:46,758
Speaker 1: era in the thirteenth scores on Joe Edcock's home run

665
00:32:47,958 --> 00:32:50,278
Speaker 1: made the last out of a Sandy Kofax no hitter

666
00:32:50,358 --> 00:32:55,718
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two, and maybe famously of all, he

667
00:32:55,838 --> 00:32:59,198
Speaker 1: was drafted by the nineteen sixty two New York Mets

668
00:32:59,198 --> 00:33:01,238
Speaker 1: and the expansion draft. Actually had a pretty good year

669
00:33:01,278 --> 00:33:01,638
Speaker 1: for the Mets.

670
00:33:01,678 --> 00:33:01,918
Speaker 4: That year.

671
00:33:01,958 --> 00:33:04,318
Speaker 1: He hit two seventy five, which was the second highest

672
00:33:04,358 --> 00:33:06,518
Speaker 1: on the team behind Richie Ashburn. But he had the

673
00:33:06,518 --> 00:33:09,638
Speaker 1: pleasure of playing for the great Casey Stangle on the

674
00:33:09,718 --> 00:33:13,078
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two Mets at the polo rounds. Joe, I

675
00:33:13,078 --> 00:33:15,638
Speaker 1: got to run this this scenario, by the way Casey

676
00:33:15,638 --> 00:33:18,998
Speaker 1: would run a game. This is July of sixty two.

677
00:33:19,078 --> 00:33:21,278
Speaker 1: The Mets are playing the Cardinals. The Mets are up

678
00:33:21,318 --> 00:33:24,318
Speaker 1: four to one. It's the eighth inning. He's got first

679
00:33:24,318 --> 00:33:27,078
Speaker 1: and third and nobody out. And I know you're a

680
00:33:27,078 --> 00:33:29,518
Speaker 1: big proponent of the zim play, right with that bunt

681
00:33:29,518 --> 00:33:33,718
Speaker 1: first and third. Well, Casey's got Roger Craig his picture

682
00:33:33,718 --> 00:33:36,038
Speaker 1: it in the box. That's easy to call that, right,

683
00:33:36,078 --> 00:33:39,278
Speaker 1: So he bunts it Roger Craig does. Felix Mantilla is

684
00:33:39,318 --> 00:33:43,198
Speaker 1: on third base, but Felix missed the sign. He doesn't go,

685
00:33:43,438 --> 00:33:46,678
Speaker 1: so the pitcher is Bobby Schantz, fields the ball. He

686
00:33:46,758 --> 00:33:48,838
Speaker 1: sees man Tea is not going anywhere now he.

687
00:33:48,798 --> 00:33:49,838
Speaker 4: Turns the throat to first.

688
00:33:49,838 --> 00:33:52,038
Speaker 1: He throws it away and he was a great fielder,

689
00:33:52,118 --> 00:33:55,078
Speaker 1: Bobby Shantz, but the throwing error, so now Manteaz scores.

690
00:33:55,838 --> 00:33:59,078
Speaker 1: Two batters later, Casey's got to run around second base

691
00:33:59,118 --> 00:34:02,238
Speaker 1: as better as Joe Christopher. He puts the bunt sign

692
00:34:02,318 --> 00:34:03,838
Speaker 1: on with nobody out to move the guy to the

693
00:34:03,998 --> 00:34:06,838
Speaker 1: third so he bunts into the force play.

694
00:34:06,878 --> 00:34:07,718
Speaker 4: It doesn't work out.

695
00:34:08,558 --> 00:34:11,918
Speaker 1: Next up is Jim Hickman. Casey puts the bunt on again.

696
00:34:12,158 --> 00:34:14,118
Speaker 1: This is like his number three hitter, Jim Hickman.

697
00:34:14,398 --> 00:34:17,598
Speaker 2: He fouls it off, so Casey says, forget it.

698
00:34:17,598 --> 00:34:20,358
Speaker 1: We're gonna go hit and run now. Of course, so

699
00:34:20,478 --> 00:34:22,198
Speaker 1: he puts on the hit and run play. But the

700
00:34:22,198 --> 00:34:25,718
Speaker 1: bench coach who's signaling the signals to the third base coach,

701
00:34:26,358 --> 00:34:29,158
Speaker 1: gives the wrong signal to the third base coach. Puts

702
00:34:29,198 --> 00:34:32,278
Speaker 1: the bunt on again. Casey sees the third base coach

703
00:34:32,358 --> 00:34:35,718
Speaker 1: give the bunt sign stands up, starts waving his arms,

704
00:34:35,718 --> 00:34:38,758
Speaker 1: and he's basically announcing that he wants the hit and run,

705
00:34:38,838 --> 00:34:42,278
Speaker 1: not the butnt play. Well, the runners get the idea,

706
00:34:42,318 --> 00:34:45,278
Speaker 1: they take off, but Hickman didn't see stangle, so Hickman

707
00:34:45,318 --> 00:34:48,398
Speaker 1: still thinks the butt play is on. So Hickman bunts

708
00:34:48,838 --> 00:34:51,158
Speaker 1: and it's a great bunt. And because the runners are

709
00:34:51,198 --> 00:34:54,718
Speaker 1: moving on the pitch like the unintentional bunt run.

710
00:34:54,758 --> 00:34:55,718
Speaker 2: Everybody's safe.

711
00:34:56,518 --> 00:34:59,358
Speaker 1: Now the bases are loaded and the next batter, Rodkanal,

712
00:34:59,478 --> 00:35:03,478
Speaker 1: hits a grand slam the Mets one, ten to three,

713
00:35:03,998 --> 00:35:06,998
Speaker 1: and after the game, Casey said says, the front of

714
00:35:07,038 --> 00:35:09,158
Speaker 1: home plate was our greatest asset.

715
00:35:13,078 --> 00:35:17,078
Speaker 3: Beautiful man, I listened. I was around Righty Herzog for

716
00:35:17,158 --> 00:35:18,678
Speaker 3: a bit with the Angels, and that's like one of

717
00:35:18,678 --> 00:35:20,958
Speaker 3: the best. I don't know how many months or a

718
00:35:21,038 --> 00:35:25,598
Speaker 3: year that Whitey was there, but my baseball knowledge increased

719
00:35:25,638 --> 00:35:29,878
Speaker 3: dramatically exponentially with what Whitey around. Everything about him I

720
00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:32,758
Speaker 3: just really try to absorb. But he talked about Casey,

721
00:35:33,078 --> 00:35:35,238
Speaker 3: he thought he was the brightest baseball man he had

722
00:35:35,278 --> 00:35:41,398
Speaker 3: been around. And he in spite of all the you

723
00:35:41,438 --> 00:35:44,078
Speaker 3: know the fact that he's kind of clown ish or whatever,

724
00:35:44,198 --> 00:35:45,838
Speaker 3: his appearance and all this stuff, But no, when it

725
00:35:45,838 --> 00:35:49,358
Speaker 3: came right down to baseball knowledge, our case was at

726
00:35:49,398 --> 00:35:53,478
Speaker 3: the top. For example, sacrifice bunch situation, you're a pitcher

727
00:35:53,558 --> 00:35:56,318
Speaker 3: and the bunch up, the bunt would be probably going

728
00:35:56,318 --> 00:35:58,678
Speaker 3: towards third base, he would have and he would encourage

729
00:35:58,718 --> 00:36:01,558
Speaker 3: his right handed pitchers to throw a break his pictures

730
00:36:01,558 --> 00:36:03,718
Speaker 3: to throw a breaking ball. If you throw a breaking ball,

731
00:36:04,038 --> 00:36:05,398
Speaker 3: is you more time to get off the mount, to

732
00:36:05,398 --> 00:36:07,598
Speaker 3: get in position to feel the ball because the ball

733
00:36:07,638 --> 00:36:10,558
Speaker 3: doesn't get to the plate in such a hurry. Little

734
00:36:10,558 --> 00:36:12,838
Speaker 3: things like that, I mean, thought about it, you know what,

735
00:36:13,438 --> 00:36:15,518
Speaker 3: That makes some sense to it, But who would break

736
00:36:15,518 --> 00:36:17,518
Speaker 3: something like that down. He probably observed that during the

737
00:36:17,558 --> 00:36:19,758
Speaker 3: course of one game, and maybe it worked all of

738
00:36:19,798 --> 00:36:21,918
Speaker 3: a sudden because back then, maybe the guys even throw

739
00:36:21,918 --> 00:36:23,718
Speaker 3: a slower curve ball to the point where the picture

740
00:36:23,798 --> 00:36:25,678
Speaker 3: really to get off the mound, because you knew if

741
00:36:25,678 --> 00:36:27,838
Speaker 3: they're gonna bunt, they were gonna bunt. And that was it.

742
00:36:27,878 --> 00:36:30,598
Speaker 3: Just like you're saying, all these awkward moments because the

743
00:36:30,638 --> 00:36:33,718
Speaker 3: manager put the play on, which was not never questioned

744
00:36:33,718 --> 00:36:37,598
Speaker 3: at that point. So, yeah, Whitey always told me about

745
00:36:37,918 --> 00:36:41,238
Speaker 3: the acumen of Casey Stangle. And again, as you're relaying

746
00:36:41,238 --> 00:36:45,238
Speaker 3: this story, man, it's just sad that today's world doesn't

747
00:36:45,278 --> 00:36:50,878
Speaker 3: get to witness a Casey Sangle in a dugout or

748
00:36:50,918 --> 00:36:54,438
Speaker 3: a Casey Stangle press conference afterwards, or you know, Casey

749
00:36:54,438 --> 00:36:58,198
Speaker 3: Stangle trying to explain strategy or whatever to a writer

750
00:36:58,318 --> 00:36:59,958
Speaker 3: when he just does not want the writer to know it.

751
00:37:00,038 --> 00:37:02,518
Speaker 3: But hell, he's talking about all that stuff. Man, I mean,

752
00:37:03,198 --> 00:37:05,638
Speaker 3: I guess that that's one of that's that is dinosauric,

753
00:37:05,678 --> 00:37:08,518
Speaker 3: that's not coming back. But my god, to me, that's

754
00:37:08,598 --> 00:37:10,718
Speaker 3: that was the allure of baseball back then. You could

755
00:37:10,838 --> 00:37:13,078
Speaker 3: you could talk about I'm talking about Whitey Herzog, talk

756
00:37:13,078 --> 00:37:15,958
Speaker 3: about Billy Martin, you could talk about Casey Stangle, you

757
00:37:15,998 --> 00:37:20,358
Speaker 3: can talk about Dick Williams, Gene everybody. I mean, ah

758
00:37:20,398 --> 00:37:22,838
Speaker 3: An Earl. I mean, it's just so when it comes

759
00:37:22,838 --> 00:37:25,918
Speaker 3: down to really attracting baseball fans, the characters of the game,

760
00:37:25,958 --> 00:37:28,558
Speaker 3: I really think had a big part of the allure.

761
00:37:28,638 --> 00:37:30,478
Speaker 3: And it certainly did for me and I probably did

762
00:37:30,558 --> 00:37:34,038
Speaker 3: for you also. That's what Casey was. And then and

763
00:37:34,358 --> 00:37:36,878
Speaker 3: give him credit. I mean, Wes Western, I'm sitting with

764
00:37:37,318 --> 00:37:40,558
Speaker 3: Wes eventually managing the big leagues. Was a catcher for

765
00:37:40,598 --> 00:37:43,478
Speaker 3: the New York Giants nearly fifties, caught in the World Series,

766
00:37:43,518 --> 00:37:45,998
Speaker 3: the third base coach first base coach for the Giants.

767
00:37:46,278 --> 00:37:49,198
Speaker 3: But I'm sitting with Wes at a Arizona State game,

768
00:37:49,238 --> 00:37:51,558
Speaker 3: and I'm just a really first year, second year scout

769
00:37:51,958 --> 00:37:55,998
Speaker 3: novice and I'm sitting up there and I watching ASU,

770
00:37:56,118 --> 00:37:58,318
Speaker 3: which is a very good ball club, And I said,

771
00:37:58,318 --> 00:38:02,278
Speaker 3: man's got to be easy, because they got all the

772
00:38:02,318 --> 00:38:06,078
Speaker 3: horses force in Arizona State Baseball versus the team that

773
00:38:06,158 --> 00:38:08,158
Speaker 3: were playing that day. They got all the horses. It's

774
00:38:08,198 --> 00:38:10,798
Speaker 3: kind of unfair. But then and then Wes said to me, yeah,

775
00:38:10,998 --> 00:38:13,198
Speaker 3: but you have to have the right jockey. And that

776
00:38:13,238 --> 00:38:16,838
Speaker 3: line always stuck with me because it's always about the

777
00:38:16,918 --> 00:38:19,118
Speaker 3: jockey does matter, and sometimes it's overlooked.

778
00:38:19,518 --> 00:38:23,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, we're old enough, we were we

779
00:38:23,558 --> 00:38:26,718
Speaker 1: know these guys. We remember the way he heards Ogsibilly Martin's,

780
00:38:26,758 --> 00:38:30,358
Speaker 1: the Dallas Green's, Davy Johnson's, and the Casey Stangles even

781
00:38:31,038 --> 00:38:34,638
Speaker 1: And it's just sad that those type of personalities really

782
00:38:34,718 --> 00:38:36,758
Speaker 1: are not allowed to flourish in the game.

783
00:38:36,798 --> 00:38:37,558
Speaker 2: They simply are not.

784
00:38:38,198 --> 00:38:41,318
Speaker 1: It just cannot happen the way the game is administered today.

785
00:38:42,558 --> 00:38:45,838
Speaker 1: And listen, we all get, you know, the evolution of

786
00:38:45,878 --> 00:38:47,438
Speaker 1: the game, the way things move forward.

787
00:38:47,438 --> 00:38:48,358
Speaker 4: We all understand that.

788
00:38:48,438 --> 00:38:51,918
Speaker 1: But there's sometimes a cost that if you're young, you

789
00:38:51,958 --> 00:38:54,438
Speaker 1: don't realize the way that it could be and the

790
00:38:54,478 --> 00:38:55,198
Speaker 1: way that it was.

791
00:38:55,438 --> 00:38:57,038
Speaker 2: And just to flesh out the picture of.

792
00:38:57,038 --> 00:38:59,678
Speaker 1: Those who probably a lot of you would not know

793
00:38:59,758 --> 00:39:03,918
Speaker 1: anything about. Casey Stengel makes me laugh some of the things,

794
00:39:03,998 --> 00:39:06,478
Speaker 1: especially with the sixty two Mets. He had a relief pitcher,

795
00:39:06,518 --> 00:39:10,438
Speaker 1: Bob Moore, who get frustrated coming in after I think

796
00:39:10,438 --> 00:39:12,478
Speaker 1: it was his third straight outing. He gave up runs,

797
00:39:12,518 --> 00:39:14,518
Speaker 1: so he punched the dugout door and of course he

798
00:39:14,598 --> 00:39:15,318
Speaker 1: breaks his hand.

799
00:39:15,718 --> 00:39:16,758
Speaker 4: This is in September.

800
00:39:16,878 --> 00:39:18,038
Speaker 1: You know, the Mets are on their way to one

801
00:39:18,118 --> 00:39:20,878
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty losses, a record until the White Sox

802
00:39:20,918 --> 00:39:24,718
Speaker 1: broke it last year. And they asked, the reporters asked thingle,

803
00:39:24,798 --> 00:39:25,918
Speaker 1: you know, what are you going to do? They get

804
00:39:25,918 --> 00:39:27,678
Speaker 1: the picture broke his hand in a fit of anger

805
00:39:27,758 --> 00:39:30,638
Speaker 1: here and he said, well, if I was in first

806
00:39:30,718 --> 00:39:32,598
Speaker 1: or second place, he'd be fined.

807
00:39:33,238 --> 00:39:37,758
Speaker 2: But what's the use? He said this about it.

808
00:39:37,838 --> 00:39:39,678
Speaker 4: He had the Mets had listened.

809
00:39:39,678 --> 00:39:41,958
Speaker 1: They were terrible, right, but they were especially terrible with

810
00:39:41,998 --> 00:39:45,318
Speaker 1: the catchers that year. Casey was the one who said, hey,

811
00:39:45,358 --> 00:39:46,678
Speaker 1: you need a catcher, otherwise you're going to.

812
00:39:46,838 --> 00:39:47,998
Speaker 4: Have a lot of pass balls.

813
00:39:49,398 --> 00:39:53,678
Speaker 1: He said this about Chris Canazero. He's an amazing fella.

814
00:39:54,518 --> 00:39:58,238
Speaker 1: He's the only defensive catcher I've ever seen who can't catch.

815
00:39:59,958 --> 00:40:04,758
Speaker 1: Could you imagine a manager saying that today the course

816
00:40:04,798 --> 00:40:06,558
Speaker 1: of the season, after the Mets lost the game at

817
00:40:06,558 --> 00:40:09,878
Speaker 1: extra innings, he said, hey, we're a much improved ball club.

818
00:40:10,198 --> 00:40:14,718
Speaker 1: Now we lose an extra innings, I'm on favorites, Joe.

819
00:40:14,758 --> 00:40:17,918
Speaker 1: This is going back to he was managing the Toledo

820
00:40:18,078 --> 00:40:23,398
Speaker 1: mud Heads in nineteen twenty nine. Okay, his team is struggling,

821
00:40:23,958 --> 00:40:27,198
Speaker 1: guys are making errors all over the place, and he

822
00:40:27,238 --> 00:40:29,478
Speaker 1: has a team meeting and he says to his guys, Hey,

823
00:40:29,998 --> 00:40:31,998
Speaker 1: I've got a tip on the market on the stock

824
00:40:32,078 --> 00:40:37,318
Speaker 1: market for you guys by Pennsylvania Railroad, because tomorrow night

825
00:40:37,518 --> 00:40:40,038
Speaker 1: about a dozen of you bums will be riding on it.

826
00:40:43,878 --> 00:40:48,318
Speaker 3: That's so good. Back to CC Chris kenizerra CC and

827
00:40:48,318 --> 00:40:51,998
Speaker 3: I were good friends. He was managing the Salinas Angels,

828
00:40:52,078 --> 00:40:54,358
Speaker 3: right after I got released, and then he had the

829
00:40:54,438 --> 00:40:56,118
Speaker 3: kind of jack I mean, the manager did that. He

830
00:40:56,118 --> 00:40:58,438
Speaker 3: permitted me to work out with them every day, and

831
00:40:58,478 --> 00:40:59,838
Speaker 3: I would work out with him and I would play

832
00:40:59,878 --> 00:41:02,558
Speaker 3: golf with him at Laguna Seca golf course anytime we

833
00:41:02,598 --> 00:41:05,318
Speaker 3: could in the morning because the pro at that golf

834
00:41:05,358 --> 00:41:08,358
Speaker 3: course brother was a minor league baseball player, so he

835
00:41:08,398 --> 00:41:11,358
Speaker 3: played for free. CC took care of me. Man, he

836
00:41:11,518 --> 00:41:14,438
Speaker 3: was a tough guy. He ran a tight ship. I'd

837
00:41:14,438 --> 00:41:17,278
Speaker 3: never realized Casey had said that about him because c

838
00:41:17,398 --> 00:41:21,958
Speaker 3: C was absolutely into the mechanics of catching. He's gone now, CEC,

839
00:41:22,038 --> 00:41:24,678
Speaker 3: he's gone, but he stayed in touch with me. I

840
00:41:24,718 --> 00:41:27,518
Speaker 3: stayed in touch with him. I have nothing but a

841
00:41:27,598 --> 00:41:31,798
Speaker 3: warm fuzzy about Chris Kenizarl because as a recently released

842
00:41:31,798 --> 00:41:33,918
Speaker 3: minor league baseball player. But I mean when I say

843
00:41:33,958 --> 00:41:37,678
Speaker 3: no money, I mean no money. That's not an exaggeration.

844
00:41:38,318 --> 00:41:40,478
Speaker 3: He took care of me, He helped me out, he

845
00:41:40,518 --> 00:41:42,438
Speaker 3: gave me some dignity, and we had a really good

846
00:41:42,478 --> 00:41:45,118
Speaker 3: time on the golf course. So whatever case he said,

847
00:41:45,118 --> 00:41:48,438
Speaker 3: it doesn't really matter. I'm just saying CC really treated

848
00:41:48,478 --> 00:41:49,798
Speaker 3: me well and I do miss him.

849
00:41:50,118 --> 00:41:54,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, one more for Casey, I actually give you two

850
00:41:54,358 --> 00:41:56,838
Speaker 1: more because you can relate to this. When you made

851
00:41:56,878 --> 00:41:58,438
Speaker 1: me think of this, Joe, and you said you had

852
00:41:58,638 --> 00:42:02,158
Speaker 1: no money, literally no money, literally none, Casey had a

853
00:42:02,198 --> 00:42:04,758
Speaker 1: line you have to go broke through three times to

854
00:42:04,878 --> 00:42:06,038
Speaker 1: learn how to make a living.

855
00:42:06,758 --> 00:42:08,438
Speaker 4: That's pretty wise, you know what.

856
00:42:08,918 --> 00:42:11,558
Speaker 3: It was way more than three times, absolutely right, and

857
00:42:11,958 --> 00:42:15,518
Speaker 3: it's true. I mean, I coming up, I'm not going

858
00:42:15,598 --> 00:42:17,358
Speaker 3: to go with the SOB stories. But when you're a

859
00:42:17,358 --> 00:42:19,918
Speaker 3: minor league player, you get for sure, you get five

860
00:42:19,998 --> 00:42:22,358
Speaker 3: hundred a month with quad cities, you get five hundred

861
00:42:22,358 --> 00:42:23,958
Speaker 3: two fifty every two weeks, and you got to live

862
00:42:23,998 --> 00:42:26,398
Speaker 3: off this. You get six dollars a day meal money,

863
00:42:26,438 --> 00:42:28,198
Speaker 3: and you only get paid during the season. So the

864
00:42:28,238 --> 00:42:31,518
Speaker 3: off season was very important. That would be like driving

865
00:42:31,518 --> 00:42:35,038
Speaker 3: a limousine. For me, as an example, working at third base, lunchonette,

866
00:42:35,238 --> 00:42:38,838
Speaker 3: delivering hogies, making hogies, and mopping the floor twice a day.

867
00:42:38,878 --> 00:42:41,798
Speaker 3: It was great stuff. I would not trade those moments

868
00:42:41,798 --> 00:42:43,278
Speaker 3: for any of me. Talk about the struggle in the

869
00:42:43,278 --> 00:42:47,398
Speaker 3: book and Joe, the struggle is so so important and

870
00:42:47,478 --> 00:42:50,558
Speaker 3: those that overlook that you're missing something, man, I mean,

871
00:42:50,918 --> 00:42:55,958
Speaker 3: obviously things a little bit better now in regards to stability, however, Yeah,

872
00:42:56,118 --> 00:42:57,918
Speaker 3: I would trade all of that to go back in

873
00:42:57,958 --> 00:42:59,798
Speaker 3: time like that and have to go through all that

874
00:42:59,878 --> 00:43:01,918
Speaker 3: stuff all over you And I would in a heartbeat.

875
00:43:01,958 --> 00:43:05,558
Speaker 3: I would that's where you're develop being all that intuition

876
00:43:05,878 --> 00:43:08,598
Speaker 3: eventually that you're going to have the work ethic that

877
00:43:08,638 --> 00:43:12,358
Speaker 3: you can eventually possess and to have a desire of thought,

878
00:43:12,918 --> 00:43:16,558
Speaker 3: a want, a goal and then eventually reach it. And

879
00:43:16,558 --> 00:43:18,598
Speaker 3: what it takes to get there. The passion involved in

880
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:24,078
Speaker 3: the day is incredible. The tireless work ethic involved to

881
00:43:24,118 --> 00:43:27,238
Speaker 3: get to that point is wonderful. And those are the

882
00:43:27,278 --> 00:43:31,838
Speaker 3: things that I wish upon everybody, every youth, that as

883
00:43:31,838 --> 00:43:33,998
Speaker 3: they grow up, that they have an absolute goal in

884
00:43:34,038 --> 00:43:36,318
Speaker 3: mind and then they have to struggle to get there,

885
00:43:36,358 --> 00:43:37,878
Speaker 3: and then it doesn't always work out, and you do

886
00:43:37,958 --> 00:43:40,558
Speaker 3: go broke three times and you have to be you

887
00:43:40,638 --> 00:43:43,678
Speaker 3: utilize your ingenuity to work your way through it and

888
00:43:43,718 --> 00:43:46,158
Speaker 3: never lose faith. These are the things that really matter.

889
00:43:46,838 --> 00:43:50,198
Speaker 3: And I'm so grateful that I never got anything before

890
00:43:50,198 --> 00:43:51,278
Speaker 3: it was my time to have it.

891
00:43:51,798 --> 00:43:54,518
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I love that, And you hit on this, Joe,

892
00:43:54,718 --> 00:43:57,398
Speaker 1: it's really passion. If you've got it, that's what's going

893
00:43:57,438 --> 00:43:59,958
Speaker 1: to pull you through, So you have to go broke

894
00:44:00,038 --> 00:44:01,958
Speaker 1: three times to learn how to make a living.

895
00:44:02,158 --> 00:44:03,638
Speaker 4: I love that's lot more for you.

896
00:44:03,678 --> 00:44:08,078
Speaker 1: From great Casey Stangle. The secret of managing is to

897
00:44:08,198 --> 00:44:11,118
Speaker 1: keep the guys who hate you away from the guys

898
00:44:11,158 --> 00:44:12,398
Speaker 1: who are undecided.

899
00:44:12,838 --> 00:44:13,798
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just.

900
00:44:13,758 --> 00:44:15,318
Speaker 1: Think you know, whether you agree with that or not,

901
00:44:15,718 --> 00:44:18,118
Speaker 1: it's it's just so cool to me that we can

902
00:44:18,158 --> 00:44:21,078
Speaker 1: sit here and talk about Casey Stangle, someone who was

903
00:44:21,118 --> 00:44:24,438
Speaker 1: born in the nineteenth century and his words are timeless.

904
00:44:24,638 --> 00:44:28,918
Speaker 1: He was such a character and a personality that what

905
00:44:29,078 --> 00:44:32,438
Speaker 1: he stands for, what he did, still resonates all these

906
00:44:32,558 --> 00:44:35,238
Speaker 1: years later, and Casey's been gone a long time. I mean,

907
00:44:35,318 --> 00:44:38,198
Speaker 1: that's having an impact on the game of baseball, if

908
00:44:38,198 --> 00:44:38,838
Speaker 1: not life.

909
00:44:39,158 --> 00:44:42,838
Speaker 3: That just validates Whitey's Herzog's assessment of Casey. That's brilliant.

910
00:44:42,998 --> 00:44:46,238
Speaker 3: Those kind of things, those little intuitive moments, those the

911
00:44:46,278 --> 00:44:48,758
Speaker 3: ability to cull things down to the point where they

912
00:44:49,678 --> 00:44:51,998
Speaker 3: there's right front of your face, but when you're able

913
00:44:52,038 --> 00:44:55,358
Speaker 3: to verbalize it in that way, that to me is

914
00:44:55,478 --> 00:44:58,358
Speaker 3: that is genius. And he was known about the Professor,

915
00:44:58,438 --> 00:44:59,198
Speaker 3: right was he known as.

916
00:44:59,078 --> 00:45:00,638
Speaker 4: The professor Professor? Yes, he was.

917
00:45:00,718 --> 00:45:04,438
Speaker 3: I mean that's so. And his word salads, Oh my god,

918
00:45:04,478 --> 00:45:08,078
Speaker 3: they were the best ever. But that again, that just

919
00:45:08,078 --> 00:45:10,278
Speaker 3: Thinkain validates with what he had said about him, and

920
00:45:10,878 --> 00:45:13,478
Speaker 3: I just you just wish that the game was more

921
00:45:13,958 --> 00:45:17,078
Speaker 3: permitted to run in that direction more than it is

922
00:45:17,878 --> 00:45:21,558
Speaker 3: where it's just so buttoned down and it just lacks

923
00:45:21,598 --> 00:45:25,478
Speaker 3: that kind of appeal. And again we talk about progress.

924
00:45:25,678 --> 00:45:28,838
Speaker 3: I'm here to say, man, I don't always agree with

925
00:45:28,878 --> 00:45:31,798
Speaker 3: the word progress, the definition. It just means that you're

926
00:45:31,798 --> 00:45:34,678
Speaker 3: doing things definitely not necessarily in a better way.

927
00:45:34,998 --> 00:45:37,278
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, you always take us home with some words

928
00:45:37,278 --> 00:45:40,078
Speaker 1: of wisdom. And I put the pressure on you here

929
00:45:40,318 --> 00:45:43,358
Speaker 1: by giving you some Casey stangle, the best of Casey stangle.

930
00:45:43,518 --> 00:45:45,718
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you can top it, but

931
00:45:46,358 --> 00:45:48,358
Speaker 1: I always do count on you to bring us home.

932
00:45:48,398 --> 00:45:49,318
Speaker 1: So what do you got today?

933
00:45:49,798 --> 00:45:52,238
Speaker 3: Yeah? I just got this from my buddy Michael Stewart.

934
00:45:52,398 --> 00:45:55,198
Speaker 3: We went to an event at McDill Air Force Based

935
00:45:55,198 --> 00:45:57,678
Speaker 3: the other day with General Fent and Brian fentn what

936
00:45:57,758 --> 00:46:00,358
Speaker 3: a good guy who went there for like this New

937
00:46:00,438 --> 00:46:03,678
Speaker 3: Year's kind of a party. And Michael threw this at

938
00:46:03,718 --> 00:46:06,238
Speaker 3: me afterwards. He just found it. I think it's great

939
00:46:06,598 --> 00:46:08,918
Speaker 3: and it comes from our boy Mick Jagger, who's one

940
00:46:08,958 --> 00:46:12,558
Speaker 3: of my idols too. People are so brainwashed by the

941
00:46:12,718 --> 00:46:17,398
Speaker 3: rules that they don't know what really matters. Okay, and

942
00:46:17,438 --> 00:46:20,238
Speaker 3: you're just talking about Whitey and Kate. We're talking about

943
00:46:20,278 --> 00:46:23,398
Speaker 3: Whitey and Casey and all this different stuff that it's

944
00:46:23,438 --> 00:46:26,238
Speaker 3: just it's just the natural flow of a human being

945
00:46:26,318 --> 00:46:28,958
Speaker 3: and his ability to express himself and not worried about

946
00:46:29,038 --> 00:46:33,038
Speaker 3: the job security whatever, and just and really just expose himself.

947
00:46:33,158 --> 00:46:36,478
Speaker 3: Just expose yourself and really, this is who I am,

948
00:46:36,518 --> 00:46:37,958
Speaker 3: this is what I think, is what I believe in.

949
00:46:38,078 --> 00:46:41,198
Speaker 3: And that's to me, that's always the most interesting. And

950
00:46:41,238 --> 00:46:44,398
Speaker 3: there's no narrative, there's there's there's no talking points here.

951
00:46:44,438 --> 00:46:48,118
Speaker 3: It's just it's an unfiltered mind working at its at

952
00:46:48,158 --> 00:46:51,758
Speaker 3: its highest level. And I love that. I love the

953
00:46:51,838 --> 00:46:54,398
Speaker 3: unfiltered mind. I love those that don't necessarily work with

954
00:46:54,438 --> 00:46:57,078
Speaker 3: the governor. I need those thoughts. I need to know

955
00:46:57,118 --> 00:46:59,758
Speaker 3: what you're thinking. You need to challenge me and I

956
00:46:59,878 --> 00:47:02,478
Speaker 3: that's that's it. Uh. And I think that's what these

957
00:47:02,478 --> 00:47:05,878
Speaker 3: guys did. Uh. We're worried about hurting your feelings, and

958
00:47:06,318 --> 00:47:08,438
Speaker 3: you know, feelings were you know, we always had feelings,

959
00:47:08,478 --> 00:47:10,158
Speaker 3: but they were a little bit more protected. Back then

960
00:47:10,238 --> 00:47:12,598
Speaker 3: was a little bit there were more. There was more

961
00:47:12,638 --> 00:47:15,278
Speaker 3: protections surrounding our feelings than there is today. We're so

962
00:47:15,438 --> 00:47:18,758
Speaker 3: we're so exposed and easily offended. I love that. I

963
00:47:18,798 --> 00:47:21,918
Speaker 3: love the method. I love the toughness of that. That

964
00:47:21,918 --> 00:47:25,278
Speaker 3: that era, so people are so brainwashed by the rules

965
00:47:25,278 --> 00:47:28,638
Speaker 3: that they don't know what really matters. Mister Mick Jagger,

966
00:47:28,718 --> 00:47:29,158
Speaker 3: I love that.

967
00:47:29,558 --> 00:47:31,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a pretty good line up today.

968
00:47:32,158 --> 00:47:36,678
Speaker 1: Each hero, Casey Stangle, Mick Jagger, sign you up.

969
00:47:36,918 --> 00:47:40,078
Speaker 3: Not bad, not bad, brother, beautiful.

970
00:47:39,638 --> 00:47:40,878
Speaker 4: Man, well done, well done.

971
00:47:40,878 --> 00:47:42,358
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time on the Book of Joe.

972
00:47:42,478 --> 00:47:45,518
Speaker 3: All right, Tommy, Thanks buddy.

973
00:47:51,478 --> 00:47:54,678
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

974
00:47:54,918 --> 00:47:58,758
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

975
00:47:58,798 --> 00:48:01,798
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.