WEBVTT - BREAKING NEWS: Trump Indicted 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.720 From Bloomberg World headquarters the New York I'm Doug Prisoner. 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.960 This is Bloomberg Radio at about the five fifty six 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.799 Wall Street time, covering the breaking news that Donald Trump 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.440 has been indicted in New York for directing hush money 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.320 payments to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.320 You're with special coverage here on Bloomberg Radio. I'm joined 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.960 by our legal analyst June Grosso in the Bloomberg Interactive 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.720 Broker studio in New York. We had been debating for 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.200 days on when this was going to occur, if it 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.479 was going to occur at all. This is one of 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.280 several cases that the president could be facing. And so 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.960 now we know that the grand jury has voted to indict. 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.080 And you know, we can't overstate what a historic day 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.040 this is. This is the first prosecution ever, the first 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.720 criminal charges ever against a former president. And yes, it 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:54.360 seemed that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg had backed off 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.000 because there had been all this last week commotion that 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.600 last week was going to be when there was this indictment. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:02.480 And then we heard that the grand jury was going 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.720 to be off until April for the Eastern mister break. 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.120 So this came as quite a shock that they have 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.240 already voted, and I mean, listen, they've been considering this 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.480 for quite some time. They were just hearing the very 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.200 last witnesses. And by the way, the very last witness 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.920 was I think Pecker, right, and he was brought in 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.920 we think to robut what had been said about Michael 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.520 Cohen by a former legal advisor to him? So who 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.800 is David Pecker? Again? Remind me this was the catch 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.319 and kill scenario? Right? He was the publisher of the 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.440 National Inquirer, I believe, yes, So he captured the story 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.000 and then tried to bury it so that it couldn't 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.360 come out during the campaign. Right, So he was there, 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:52.040 we think to buttress Michael Cohen's testimony because Cohen is 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.760 a problematic witness, and he will likely be the star 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.840 witness here. He's a problematic witness because he is a 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.840 convicted felon, convicted for lying to Congress. So right away, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.760 right there, you have a problem with this kind of 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.920 a witness. But as prosecutors tell you, you know, they 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:12.560 can't present priests and acquire boys to a jury. They 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.080 have to present who they have and they're usually someone 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.040 who's associated with the crime. So he does have a 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.080 lot going for him, but a lot going against him. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.919 So they brought in after one of his former attorneys 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.640 came forward, and Trump's lawyers requested that he testified to 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.320 the grand jury. And you're a lot to do that 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.799 in New York. So they requested aim of kind of 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.760 eroding the credibility of Cohen exactly just as if just 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.919 like Trump was invited himself to testify to the grand jury. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.919 Of course he didn't, and that's a very smart move 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.640 on his side not to come forward. So but you 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.600 can't ask to have a witness come forward. So they 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:55.280 asked to have this former attorney, former advisor to Michael Cohen, 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.680 and he said some things that you tried to undermine 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.480 Cohen's integrity, that he lied about this to him in 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.400 the past. And so then all of a sudden, it 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.120 seemed as if things came to a halt. Then they 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:11.840 brought in Packer to buttress Michael Cohen. The thing about 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.720 this whole grand jury investigation you've heard came from a 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.160 New York Court of Appeal judge. Prosecutor can get a 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.200 grand jury to indict a ham Sandwich in this case, 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:26.440 it seemed like Alvin Bragg was almost trying the case, 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.679 not just presenting it to the grand jury so that 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.720 he'd get an indictment, but almost trying the case. And 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.080 perhaps it was an attempt to see how the case 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.640 would flesh out. Perhaps because it's such it's the first indictment, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.080 there's going to be so much press on this, There's 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.520 going to be so much on this. Perhaps he wanted 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.360 to make sure that he had every eye dotted in 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.040 t cross And a big question is to what happens 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.360 in Georgia because there is another case there very much 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:57.360 of the focus of or on any interference with the 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.320 election that was going on in twenty sixteen or twenty 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.800 I want to get blend together. Yeah, they do, really. 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:06.400 I want to get to Ed Baxter, who is in 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.600 the Bloomberg newsroom in San Francisco during our special coverage 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.640 as we learned that a former President Trump has now 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.160 been indicted by the District Attorney in Manhattan for directing 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.880 hush money payments to a porn star during the twenty 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.680 sixteen campaign. M. Yeah, I'm sure you're you're looking at 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.239 wires and different types of reaction. What are you seeing yeah, 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.000 I'm seeing a lot of stuff. But what I want 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.080 to ask june A Doug if I may, is what 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.800 happens next? Now? I mean Donald Trump was out, remember 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.200 the famous I'm going to be indicted on Tuesday line, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.040 said that he wanted to figure out what he was 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.880 going to wear, should he wear a tie? How public 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.479 is this going to be? And I understand and correct 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.400 me if I'm wrong that he's a maralgo. Where does 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.720 this go next? What is the process? So what will 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.120 happen in this case? I've talked to several people and 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:56.840 they say, you know, he's not going to be treated 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.200 like the ordinary citizen. He's going to be treated like 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:03.360 the extra ordinary citizen. So a high profile citizen. They're 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.800 going to tell his lawyers. I think Joe Takapino, one 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.720 of his lawyers, has already said that he heard about this. 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:11.480 So what they're going to do is they're going to 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.800 request and arrange a date for him to come in 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:15.919 and turn himself in. So there's not going to be 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.760 that perp walk that people may have been expecting. He's 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:21.760 not going to We don't think he's going to be 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.279 put in handcuffs. But apparently this is all going to 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.720 be worked out between Alvin Bragg's office and his attorneys 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.120 how they want to handle this. But he will have 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.560 to be booked, He'll have to have be fingerprinted and 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.760 have his mug shot taken, and they'll have to be 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.640 an appearance in court where it's expected they're not going 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.640 to request bail or anything. He's going to be sent 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.200 out on his own recognizance. But those details have to 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.400 be done. But you know, how big a deal it 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.280 is may depend more on Donald Trump than anyone else. 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.479 Does he want to make this a big deal? So 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.640 there would be ostensibly an arrangement right when he's charged, 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.000 But after that, I mean a delay. Is that probably 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.160 what we're going to see. Is there a way for 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.000 the Trump legal team to kind of slow the process. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:11.599 There will be motion upon motion upon motion upon motion 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.240 to delay the process and to attack the you know, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:21.000 the evidence that the district attorney has, and um, you 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.000 know you're going to see a lot happen in the 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.240 courtroom and a lot happen outside the courtroom. And I 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.600 think a lot of this depends on how hard Alvin 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.719 Bragg is going to push for a trial date that's close. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.000 I mean, Trump also remember the trial is coming up 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.839 where Attorney General Letitia James is suing Trump and his company. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.279 That's coming up. Now that's a civil complaint though right right, 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.920 it is a civil and criminal would take precedence. But 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.520 I'm just saying there's a lot there are a lot 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.560 of balls in the air here with Trump and what's happening. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.880 So you know, I have no idea when the trial 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:56.960 would actually be set for ed now going down the 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.760 road though, I mean, this has been from what's been leaked, 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.800 and grand jury always is supposed to be secret. But 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.360 you mentioned that, you know, a very thin case. It's 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.280 a very creative case, if we can put it that 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:13.000 way at the very least. I mean, this is something 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.560 that he would go down the road of definitely with 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.800 any trial, he could be acquitted. And that has all 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.400 kinds of ramifications as well, exactly. And the case is 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.680 it's a novel legal theory. It's sort of, you know, 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.480 to explain it simply, it's sort of hooks one misdemeanor 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.880 crime onto a felony in order to make it a felony. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.080 So the misdemeanor would be falsifying business records, which is 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.360 they did not they did not record this hush money 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.000 payment as it should have been recorded it as legal fees, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.240 I believe, and then the prosecutors have to show an 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.440 intend to defraud and that would be a violation of 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:53.920 election law. So the theory is that the second kind 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.600 of hooks on the first, and then you get the 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.560 the excuse me, the felony, which is what they want 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.560 because it just you know, hush money payments. That would 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.560 just be a misdemeanor of falsifying business record. June, we 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.560 have Robert Mints with us. He is the former I'll 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.320 be able to explain. Well, you're going to ask the 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.280 first question, let me do the introduction. He is a 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.920 former federal prosecutor and now partner at mcarter and English. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.480 Mister Mints, thanks for being with us first, right out 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.080 of the gate, let me get your reaction. Sure, well, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.880 it's not surprising really, because of Manhattan District Attorney's office 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.920 has been ramping up this investigation for some time. It's 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.720 public knowledge that the grand jury has been meeting and 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.840 as was close to returning an indictment. And still it's 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.360 shocking to believe that this has actually occurred, that an 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.400 indictment has been returned. And the first former president to 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.520 face criminal charges that case will actually go forward. It's 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.760 still something that is shocking that this has actually come 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.319 to pass. So, Bob, we don't know what the grand 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.679 jury exactly indicted on, but we have an eye idea. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.720 So tell us about how they're going to use this 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:08.480 misdemeanor and try to make it into a felony. Well, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.320 the core of this case is under New York while 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.719 falsifying business records, which can be a crime, and that's 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.080 really the bread and butter for the white collar section 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.920 of the District Attorney's Obviously they charge this falsification of 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.040 business records all the time, something that's not unusual. But here, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.280 in order to turn this crime into a felony rather 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.800 than a misdemeanor, they have to tie it to a 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.520 second crime. And in this case, it appears that what 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.640 the case is going to turn on is whether or 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.760 not this concealment of these business records as falsifying of 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:49.200 these business records also as a violation of federal election 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.360 law and the facts here, which really is something that 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.360 is out there now, there's no secret to what this 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.960 case is going to be about. It's going to hinge 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.760 on the handling of this PA and one hundred and 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.920 thirty thousand dollars which Michael Khone, the former president's lawyer, 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.760 has said he used to pay off Stormy Daniels in 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.400 order to conceal an alleged affair that President Trump had 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.920 with Stormy Daniels leading into the election. And the question 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.640 here the links beIN really of this whole case is 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.200 going to be the district attorney's ability to prove that 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.120 that money was paid in order to affect the election 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.800 and not for some other reasons. So a defense here, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.560 for example, that the firm president could raise his Yes, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.840 I paid that money. He denies that he had the affair, 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.520 but he said he's going to say, I would expect 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.840 that he paid the money in order to save the 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.720 embarrassment to his family and to his wife, and that's 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:49.160 why he paid off the Stormy Daniels through Michael Kane. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.360 The government is going to have to prove the d 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.320 is going to have to prove that it was done 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.920 for the purpose of affecting the election and not merely 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.760 in order to preserve the president's public image and to 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.480 save his family from embarrassment. So, Bob, is this just 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.040 novel legal theory or is there a precedent for anything 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.600 like this where you begin with kind of the misdemeanor 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.400 violation and then you pivot and then use that as 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.600 the basis for a kind of a federal charge or 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.600 a criminal charge on on a federal level. Yes, I 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.880 mean that's a great question. I'm not aware of New 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:28.079 York State prosecutors ever having filed an election law case 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.640 involving a federal campaign before. So this case is novel. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.600 It's an untested case that no one has brought before 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.280 from the Manhattan DA's office, and it's susceptible to being 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.920 attacked both at the trial level, and even if they 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.320 gain a conviction, it's susceptible to potentially being thrown out 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.480 on appeal. So it is a high risk gambit for 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.320 the Manhattan District Attorney's office to bring this case because 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.720 it is an untested area, and generally prosecutors like to 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.280 stay away from untested areas in civil litigation. You might 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.520 want to bring a case that's never been brought before, 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.360 But as prosecutors, generally, the idea is the law has 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.720 to be black and white. You want to know what's 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.960 right or what's wrong, and you don't want to be 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.360 bringing a case that has never been tested in the 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.400 courts before, because you might go through an entire trial, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.640 you might even gain a conviction, and then it might 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.160 get thrown out on appeal. Bob. There's also the question 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.920 of whether hush money payment can be a campaign donation. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.720 I mean, you remember what happened with the prosecution of 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.160 Senator John Edwards, and I see that the Trump team 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.800 has at times raised that They've said he didn't pay 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.360 this hush money because of the campaign. He paid this 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.760 hush money because he wanted to save his wife, Milania 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.640 from being embarrassed. So that's may come up that kind 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.840 of a defense here, Jordan. That exactly was the defense 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.920 in the John Edwards case. That was the situation. If 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:01.240 you're a call where Senator Edwards wife was battling cancer 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.679 and they was a third party who paid off somebody, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.040 and that was part of the defense, and it worked. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.360 There was an acquittal in that case where the jury 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.240 could not decide whether the money was paid for the 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.640 purpose of protecting his position as somebody running for president, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.520 or whether it was done in order to protect his 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.160 wife and his family. And the prosecutors here are going 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.920 to be facing exactly the same dilemma. So, Bobby, one 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.520 question is it regards you in regard to the investigation 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.760 going on for five years. Is there a statute of 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.679 limitations on any of this? Well, there's a statue of 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.800 the limitations on the misdemeanor count of falsifying business records, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.160 which has expired. So the only way prosecutors can bring 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.880 this case is by bringing it as a felony, and 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.480 that would be within the statue of the limitations, just 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.800 barely having brought it now, So the case is going 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.080 to rise or fall on their ability to prove this 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.400 felony case. So, Bob, I want to talk a minute 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.040 about Michael colem because so much has been said about 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.760 how he is going to be the star witness and 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.600 all the problems he may encounter, and we saw that there. 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.200 It appears that this indictment may have been delayed because 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.839 the Trump team asked to have one of his former 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.320 advisors come in, who undercut his credibility. So I'm wondering 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.000 how much you think that's really a problem when he's 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:26.000 been pretty consistent ever since he saw the light, let's 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.000 say about about his position. So he's been pretty consistent 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:35.520 about what he's said. Yeah, we know Michael Cohen has 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.120 been in and out of the DA's office for a 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.120 long time now, and we also know that he has 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:46.120 produced these checks that were written by President Trump to 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.560 him as reimbursement for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.960 that he paid personally to Stormy Daniels. And so there 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.840 is a record here that seems to be consistent with 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.280 Michael's co own testimony. On the other hand, we don't 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.280 know else Michael Cohen may upset to prosecutors. We do 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.480 know that he has told differing stories over time, and 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.680 so he is going to be, in many ways the 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.920 central focus of this case, and we don't know what 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.880 else might be out there to potentially impeach his credibility. 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.360 There was another case, there is another case going on 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.200 in Georgia. We had the special grand jury meet in 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.200 that case and recommend indictments. We don't have a lot 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.520 of visibility into who may be indicted as far as 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.040 I know, and I was asking June this question earlier, Bob, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.240 whether or not that prosecutor in that case has convened 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:38.760 a grand jury now with the idea of pursuing criminal charges. 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.960 Talk to me about the context of both of these 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.280 cases seeming to kind of almost coincide with one another, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.640 and I'm wondering whether prosecutors would wait for the other 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.200 to kind of make the first move. Is that part 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.800 of the strategy here? If there is one, Well, that's 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.680 really hard to say. These cases have taken a long time. 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.360 I think from the standpoint of somebody like myself who 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.760 was a federal prosecutor for ten years and who's been 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.840 following these cases, they've taken a long time to work 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.960 their way through the system and to get to where 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.800 we are today. We know, for example, that federal prosecutors 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.640 who charged Michael Khne Michael Kon as we know, pled 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.720 guilty to these campaign violations, but federal prosecutors never took 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.120 the additional step to charge President Trump. So they looked 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.320 at this evidence and decided for whatever reason, and we 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.320 don't know why, but they decided not to bring the 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.520 federal case against President Trump at the time that they 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.240 charged Michael Khone. The case going on in Georgia is 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:44.320 a completely separate case regarding the president's elect interference with 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.200 the election. That also has taken a long time. I 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.400 think one of the things that we're seeing here, though, 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.000 is while on the one hand, prosecutors like to take 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.080 their time because they only get one shot really to 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:01.240 get it right. You cannot go back usually fix these problems. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.040 Once you bring this indictment, the clock is then running, 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.159 and everything then favors the defense in the sense that 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.639 they have the right to a speedy trial, They have 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.960 a right to their day in court. As the prosecutor, 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.760 you better have all your ducks lined up, all your facts, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.400 all your witnesses set into place before you bring that indictment. 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.280 So they want to take their time and get it right. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.080 On the other hand, they are racing against the political 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.239 clock because they are not unmindful of the fact that 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.760 there is an election coming up, the fact that President 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.239 Trump is an announced candidate, There's primaries coming up, and 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.600 the closer that any indictment gets to these primaries and 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.640 to a potential presidential election, the more it looks like 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.320 some kind of attempt to interfere with that election. That's 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.480 not what prosecutors would say they're doing, but they also 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.840 have to be aware of the appearance of that, and 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.560 I think that's one of the reasons we're seeing prostitutors 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.840 finally decide one way or the other which way they 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.760 are going to go in these cases. And we saw 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.040 that the Manhattander has decided to bring English indictment. Bob, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.080 this may be an unfair question, but I'm going to 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.400 ask you anyway. What happens here is for let's say 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.000 Georgia also comes in with an indictment. How do they 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:17.240 decide which case takes precedent, which case goes first, and 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.080 you know what happens if it does bump into the 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.040 election electioneering? Well, that's a tough one because you've got 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.639 two different judges and two different jurisdictions. They don't really 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:33.080 control one another, they don't answer to one another, but 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.800 they are mindful of what's going on. You know, typically 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.240 you have a situation where you've got a federal judge 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.040 on a state court judge. The federal case usually takes precedent, 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.520 so you will see a state corp judge decides to 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.720 take have their case sort of put on the back 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.280 burner and allow the federal case to play out. But 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.200 here this case is obviously being brought in state court 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.160 in New York. The case in Georgia would also be 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.960 before a state court judge. So it's really going to 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.120 be up to the prosecutors and the judges who were 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.760 involved here to determine which case is going to take precedent. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.440 I suspect they'll look at the cases, they'll decide how 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.040 complicated they are. They may look and decide, you know, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.720 which case seems to be the stronger case or which 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.720 case is more likely to get a conviction, and that 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.520 may play into the decision about which case to bring first. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.919 But the short answer to your question, Tune, is that 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.080 there is no plea book. There is no rule as 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.400 to which case goes first. And you forgot the special counsel. Oh, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.640 that would be a federal case that would take precedent 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.960 most definitely. Let's not go there yet, Bob, thanks so 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.879 much for being with us. Robert Mens's former federal prosecutor, 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.399 is also a partner at McCarter and English. This is 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.639 Bloomberg Special coverage of the news that broke within the 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.360 last hour or so. Donald Trump has been indicted by 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.840 the New York District Attorney for directing hush money payments 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.160 to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. Let's 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:02.840 bring in Bloomberg's Politics contributor g Genie Schanzano, who joins us. Now, Genie, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.400 I know that you and Joe Matthew were talking earlier 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.119 about this as the news broke during your TV program. 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.760 I'd like to get your reaction. Yeah. I mean, I 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.600 think the word that comes to mind is unprecedented. And 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.240 we don't know what is going to happen. We don't 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.800 know the charges against him, But what we do know 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.920 is that we have a former president who is going 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.000 to have a mug shot and has his fingerprints taken, 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.320 and who can still run for president from behind bars, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.720 who just the other day went to Waco where his 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.760 campaign designed these signs which talked about a witch hunt, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.040 and he is going to continue to use that as 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.480 a way to drum up support. And the other thing 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.640 I would say, just today, we're looking at poles which 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.000 show him with a double digit lead in the Republican 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:54.920 nomination for president. So you know, when you say unprecedented, 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.520 when you say no rule books, that is exactly where 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.840 we are today. And oh, by the way, this is 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:04.119 the first, as you've been talking about, of many potential prosecutions. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.520 In other words, the or indictments, I should say, in 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.600 other words, only the beginning and what is going to 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.800 unfold to be a real, you know, contentious and sort 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.400 of unpredictable election season as we move into twenty four. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.440 Let's bring in Joe Matthew next. He is Bloomberg's Washington correspondent. 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.560 I want to correct what I just said earlier, Joe, 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.080 I thought Cheney joined you today on the TV program 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.760 when this news broke. I guess that wasn't the radio 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.160 program earlier. Okay, but you were on television when this 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.520 news broke. It was first reported by the New York 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.240 Times during your roundtable discussions. What are some of the 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.720 angles that you were able to tease out on this? Well, 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:42.760 you know, it's it's just depends who you want to 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.040 ask here. One of the questions we've been asking is 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.879 what's the response from Democrats and specifically the administration. The 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.879 answer is none. They're not weighing in on this, and 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.360 it says a lot about the posture of a president 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.399 in the case of Joe Biden, who's considering announcing a 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.400 run for reelection. On the other hand, we saw other 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.600 Democrats like Maxine Waters celebrating this, which really could it 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.720 be a political risk if it does fulfill the narrative 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.080 that Trump supporters have that this is a political attack. 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:14.560 I do want to mention I spent some time with 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.879 Lannie Davis earlier this week. That's Michael Cohen's lawyer, and 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.359 he just sent me a statement on this, because you know, 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.800 Michael Cohen went to jail. He actually did jail time 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.439 for this, for providing the payments that he says he 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.440 was reimbursed by from Donald Trump. Michael Cohen, he writes, 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.480 made the brave decision to speak truth to power and 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.640 accept the consequences, and has done so ever since. I'm 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:40.400 proud to have been his lawyer and his friend through 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.000 this long journey on the path to justice and accountability. 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.920 So that's the side the message coming from Michael cohenside. 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.320 We also heard from MAGA Inc statement from Taylor Buddh 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.400 which at MAGA Pack says, this is not an indictment 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.960 of a crime, there was no crime. Instead, this news 0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.600 is the indictment of a failed nation. That sounds a 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:01.840 lot like what we heard from President Trump last weekend 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.399 in Waco. Doug He says that they're coming after me 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.520 because they can't beat me at the ballot box. He 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:10.919 calls this a new form of election interference. But he 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:12.760 was able to do a great deal of fundraising as 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:14.800 a result of he said it right. He sure did 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.040 that day that he said I'll be arrested on Tuesday. 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.119 That goes back to tuesdays now. He raised an enormous 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:23.960 amount of money, and I suspect that more fundraising emails 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:27.400 will go out now that it's actually happened. To Genie's point, 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.840 he gets potentially several more turns here. Fulton County, Georgia 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:34.720 and the Special Council here in Washington are making great progress. 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:37.400 We actually thought we'd hear from Georgia first. I don't 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.120 know how Genie would agree with me on this, but 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.840 that would suggest that we could hear from Fulton County 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.679 literally any day. Now. Imagine now not only the first 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.800 ever indictment of a former president who happens to be 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.960 seeking reelection, but it would be the first ever multiple 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.320 indictments at once. Genie, you want to weigh in on 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.640 that the Georgia case. Yeah, I think we're what we're 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.040 going to hear in reaction to that, And as Joe mentioned, 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.240 it's a stunning, absolute possibility, you know, is what Jim 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:09.359 Jordan tweeted, you have a representative in Congress, a leader 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.840 on the Republican side, tweeting outrageous in response to this indictment. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:17.800 So you can imagine if the Fulton County prosecutor comes 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:22.480 down with another indictment. And the challenge here is do 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:27.240 these multiple indictments seem to Trump reporters and quite frankly 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.280 many on the Republican side, as what Joe described as 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:34.800 election interference. And this allows Donald Trump to portray himself 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:38.480 as a victim. And his message has always been not 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.320 just that he's a victim, but that his supporters are 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:43.439 a victim, that this is a witch hunt not just 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.360 against him, but of them. And he always says, if 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:48.840 they can do this to me, they'll do this to you. 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.840 So that's what we'll expect to hear from the campaign. 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.760 And I think if we do hear of Fulton County indictment, 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.000 and let's not forget about the federal potential indictments that 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.760 could come down, we are going to hear that in 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:05.719 steroids as we see these multiple mug shots of Donald Trump. 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:11.119 Alan Dershowitz on a conservative network just after this indictment 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.320 is announced, says he's going to use that mug shot 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.720 potentially Donald Trump as a poster for his presidential campaign. 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:20.600 Imagine that. Well, but Joe, that's an interesting point. I 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:22.480 mean Donald Trump. By the way, guys, this is the 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.840 first time we're hearing from him. This is a it's long, 0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:28.480 it looks like a newspaper article. But I'll just give 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:31.399 you a couple of highlights. This is political persecution and 0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.639 election interference at the highest level in history. From the 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:37.160 time I came down the Golden escalator at Trump Tower, 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.960 the radical left Democrats have been engaged in a witch 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:43.679 hunt to destroy the Make America Again movement. Now I'm 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:46.040 going to do a little site editing here. Never before 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.640 in our nation's history has this been done. He goes 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.000 on to say Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg handpicked and funded 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.880 by George Soros, and we continue to hear that dog 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.159 whistle is a disgrace. He goes on further to right, 0:25:58.200 --> 0:26:01.120 I believe this witch hunt will backfire. Are massively on 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.720 Joe Biden, and he uses the word we here. We 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.360 will defeat Joe Biden. We are going to throw every 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:09.719 last one of these crooked Democrats out of office so 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:12.320 we can make America great again. There you have it 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.359 now at six twenty two pm Eastern time, the statement 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.439 from Donald J. Trump, Joe, I want to bring in 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:21.119 June Grasso, who is our legal expert here in the 0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:24.399 New York studio. June. We know that the Department of 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:28.240 Justice now has Jack Smith a special council working on 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:32.600 two separate cases. Does this necessarily slow in any way 0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:37.480 his intention or strategy, not at all, And he is 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.800 moving at warp speed. You just found out this week 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:44.840 that Mike Pence has been ordered to testify by a 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.000 judge to testify to the grand jury in that case, 0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:52.640 the case involving January sixth, an investigation into whether Donald 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:56.560 Trump or his allies had any criminal activities with regard 0:26:56.600 --> 0:27:00.159 to January sixth. So he's moving forward. He's got he's 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:04.040 got people coming in from lets. His lawyer, he had 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.160 his lawyer, Evan Corkrane come in and they've been fighting 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:10.400 all these different subpoenas and they've won all of them 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:12.679 as far as I can, as far as I know. 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.800 So they've won all these subpoenas with really unusual kinds 0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:19.639 of arguments. Evan Corkrane, they used an argument that it 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:22.720 was an attorney client privilege, and they came back with 0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:26.639 a crime fraud exception to that, and Mike Pence used 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:30.760 the theory that it was based on the speech or 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.439 debate clause, and the judge said, you can use that 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:35.080 for some of it, but you can't use it for 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:37.960 all of it, because everything you did that day was 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.840 not related to your activities on the floor of the House. 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:43.760 So I'm just saying they are moving really fast. They're 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.840 getting a lot of witnesses that the January sixth Committee 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:49.360 couldn't get, and that I don't think anyone else has 0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:52.520 gotten either, Mark Meadows, So I think that they're moving 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:55.200 very quickly, and I don't think that and there if 0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:59.720 they indict, that will take precedence over the state investigations 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:03.159 will move forward first. That's interesting, Joe. What do we 0:28:03.200 --> 0:28:06.960 know about a reaction either from let's say, Ronda Santis 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:10.840 or Nicky Haley, any of the other candidates that are 0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:14.720 chasing the GOP nomination. We haven't heard from candidates yet. 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.680 We have heard from a number of lawmakers on both 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:20.160 sides of the Aisle Adam Schiff Democrat of course Thorn 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.440 on the side of Donald Trump, whose years in the 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:26.080 White House and in fact was an impeachment. Manager says 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.600 the indictment of a former president is unprecedented, but so 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:32.560 too is the unlawful conduct in which Trump has been engaged. 0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:36.840 We saw a celebratory statement from Maxine Waters. We've also 0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:43.160 heard very different statements from some Republicans, and they're calling 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:45.400 this a witch hunt. So so far it, Douget's been 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.760 very predictable. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm just 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:51.920 really curious to hear what happens when centrists are called 0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:56.560 to speak about this, particularly Democrats who want in Trump districts, 0:28:56.760 --> 0:29:00.000 Republicans who want in Biden districts and have a potential 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:01.720 a lot to lose if they say the wrong thing 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:04.960 in the next cycle. So, Genie, neither a criminal charge 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.200 nor a conviction would disqualify mister Trump in any way 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:11.800 from running or even serving as president. And I'm probably 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.360 going to bet that he is going to proceed here 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:18.120 full more without kind of tripping over any of these 0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:21.520 legal stumbling blocks. I mean, he knows what he's wants 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.280 and he's going to get there. Yeah. I mean, his 0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:26.960 team has been preparing for this. I think it's clear 0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:29.719 that they did not expect it today. They thought that 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:31.960 the grand jury was going to be out, they had 0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:34.360 a little bit of time, so I think the timing 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.120 of this coming this afternoon was a shock, but the 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:39.760 fact that he might be indicted not a shock at all. 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:42.080 They've been preparing for this. That's why they have the 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.080 witch hunt posters printed. And he is going to run. 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.600 I mean, we've seen this before. Eugene V. Debs in 0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:52.440 nineteen twenty sits in prison for espionage and runs for president. 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:56.400 So it is absolutely constitutional for him to do it, 0:29:56.640 --> 0:29:59.320 and he has said he will do it, and in fact, 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:02.080 he is going to use it. He says to make 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.200 the case that he is, as Joe was talking about, 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:09.800 the victim of political persecution, the victim of election interference, 0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:12.640 that this has been a plan by Democrats. And he 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.240 uses these sort of tropes that he talks about in 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:19.280 these statements about Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan Day and others 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:23.360 that are xenophobic and racist. He's used them and tried 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.000 to use them to his advantage. And of course I'm 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:28.920 looking right now at the Real Clear Politics average. He 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:32.840 is seventeen points ahead in the Real Clear Politics average. 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:35.240 So his numbers, by the way, in the last month 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:38.640 have double digit gone up. So if anybody thinks that 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:40.200 he is sort of, you know, going to be a 0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:42.320 victimized by this in terms of his support in the 0:30:42.320 --> 0:30:45.200 Republican side, we haven't seen that in the polls yet. 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.600 Of course, the indictment just coming out now, so maybe 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:51.560 that changes in the next couple of weeks. Joe, talk 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:53.800 to me a little bit about the reaction that may 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.680 happen from on the part of Trump's supporters to today's 0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:00.560 news and the concern. I'm I'm sure in a number 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:06.080 of jurisdictions that there could be a level of protesting 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:09.040 that may risk on I don't want to say violence 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:11.520 or anything like that, but you know what I'm talking about. Well, yeah, 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:13.000 I mean, I think we can say there's been a 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:14.920 lot of concern about this. I'm glad you brought it up, Doug. 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:16.720 There's a reason why barricades are up in front of 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.280 the courthouse in New York. There's a reason why the 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.440 barricades went back up around the Capitol here in Washington. 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.640 When the former president says, you know, kind of following 0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:27.880 up on his it'll be wild a tweak going back 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:31.840 to January six, we says, protest save our country calling 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.120 for the potential, at least as he said he didn't. 0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:37.040 He didn't call for it, but he was warning of 0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:41.600 the potential for death and destruction. We haven't seen this 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.400 happen yet, though, Doug. You know, when this first was 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:47.080 brought to our attention by the former president saying is 0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:49.880 going to be arrested to tuesdays ago, there were more 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:54.400 reporters than protesters in outside that courthouse. And it does 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:57.760 make you wonder after what we saw in January six 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.200 the hundreds of people who are actually in jail, what 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:03.040 they did attacking our capital, if they know better. The 0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:07.360 real concern from authorities we've talked to here is a 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.360 lone wolf, somebody driving into the barricade at the capital, 0:32:10.400 --> 0:32:12.560 somebody doing something stupid in front of the courthouse, as 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:16.479 opposed to an organized event, an organized attack like we 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.800 saw in January sixth. Yeah, most definitely big concern. June 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.400 final thoughts, as we kind of rap, I'm sort of 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.560 numb because we were expecting this for so long, and 0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:28.280 then we sort of put it aside and started to 0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:30.200 think that maybe it wouldn't happen. I mean, this is 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:34.800 going to be an incredible case, whether it's a misdemeanor 0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:36.920 and a felony hook together. But it's going to be 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:40.080 an incredible case and we'll see something that we've never 0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:44.240 seen before. We'll see how a president is treated in 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:47.360 a criminal trial. It's going to be you know, I 0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.240 have only superlatives right now. Okay, Well, I want you 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.160 to stick around, June, because we're going to be speaking 0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:56.040 with Michael Zelden in a moment. I want to say 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:58.920 goodbye and thanks to Joe Matthew, who is a Bloomberg 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:04.680 Washington correspond and Jeanie Shanzano, who is a Bloomberg Politics contributor, 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.280 joining us as we unpack the news of the last hour, 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.760 Donald Trump being indicted by the New York District Attorney 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:15.720 for directing hush hush money payments to a porn star 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:18.960 during his twenty sixteen campaign. All right, now, let's get 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.040 to our guest. We are joined by Michael Zelden. He 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:24.760 is a former federal prosecutor and former special counsel to 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.720 Robert Muller. He had worked at the Department of Justice. 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:30.080 Mister Zelden, thanks for being with us. Let me get 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:32.680 your reaction right out of the gate. Well, it's a 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:35.480 little bit surprising As to the timing, we all thought 0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:38.200 that the grand jury was on pause for minutes, so 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:40.800 that came as a bit of a surprise. As to 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.680 the merits of the case, we have to see the indictment. 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:47.720 There are people like me who worried about the integrity 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:52.760 of a case like this, A state pavement of hush 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:57.280 money tied to a federal election case never been done before. 0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.800 Whether it's a viable legal theory remains to be seen. 0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:03.880 So really we're in the oh my god, he's been 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:07.480 indicted moment, and now let's see what the prosecutors can 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:13.080 show us gave reason for that indictment. So, Michael, you 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:16.600 talked about this novel legal theory. Do you think that 0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:21.040 it's something that a judge might dismiss even before the 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.680 case got to trial. Is it that novel? I don't 0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:27.400 know that it would be that novel that it would 0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:30.759 be dismissed before the case, But it could get dismissed 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:34.360 mid case, you know, after the prosecution rests, the government 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:38.440 then turns over to defense and they can move him 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:41.920 to have the case dismissed at that point. But I 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:45.840 think on the paper it probably won't get dismissed. It 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:48.759 probably should go to a jury. But it's a great 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:53.040 question because the theory is novel. We have to wait 0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:56.920 and see whether the court thinks that it's so novel 0:34:56.960 --> 0:34:59.680 that it is worthy of going forward to the jury 0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:02.680 or gets dismissed right out. We just don't know. We 0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:06.360 know the prosecution star witnesses Michael Cohen, and he is 0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:09.839 a felon, He's been convicted and served time. Does that 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:14.360 majorly erode his credibility in a case like this? Sure? 0:35:14.880 --> 0:35:17.440 And one of the things that I saw on the 0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:22.000 news today was that Alan Weisselberg, the CFO of the 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:28.480 Trump organization who's in jail on unrelated charges, has changed 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:31.360 lawyers from a Trump paid for a lawyer to a 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.200 new legal team, And that gave me pause to wonder 0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.319 when whether he's going to start cooperating, because he's the 0:35:38.360 --> 0:35:41.960 person who can make this case much better than Cohen. He, 0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:46.240 though convicted of a crime, really knows much more about 0:35:46.239 --> 0:35:49.680 the financial dealings than does Michael Cohen. So if you've 0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:54.200 just got to Michael cohen witness and documents and an 0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:57.760 argument that this was a payment made not to violate 0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:01.080 through election law, but rather just to protect his family 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:06.560 from the allegations. It's a very triable case. But they've 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.400 been trying to flip him or prosecutors try to flip 0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.400 him for the longest time, and they couldn't. They couldn't 0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:16.200 flip him to testify against Trump. He would testified to 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:20.200 what happened in the company. But he didn't testify against Trump. 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:23.520 And he's still being paid by the Trump organization a 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:26.520 lot of money. Do you really think that he would 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:28.600 that they'd be able to flip him at this point 0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:32.200 after he's gone to prison. Well, it depends on what 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.920 they have to offer him. For example, if they have 0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:39.840 to offer him another indictment for some type of insurance 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.640 fraud which you've heard about, and he spent time in 0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:45.400 Rikers Island and he knows how unpleasant that is, and 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.560 he's facing the postil he's spending even more time there. 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.479 That might be enough to have him change his mind. 0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.080 If they're just saying, please, out of the goodness of 0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:57.600 your heart, do it. There's not a chance when it 0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:00.960 comes to trying to find a jury during the dear process. 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.960 I mean, here we are in Manhattan, and I'm wondering 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.560 whether or not it's going to be very difficult for 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:09.000 the Trump legal team to even come to an agreement 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:11.279 with a DA's office on a suitable jury. Is that 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:13.319 going to be a huge hurtle as well? Well. It's 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:15.400 going to be a big issue for the judge to 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.359 make sure that the jury's selection process is fair to 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:23.880 the defendant and fair to the prosecution. And I expect 0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:26.200 that will take a long time. But we have other 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:30.600 cases that are almost equally famous, though not a former president, 0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:35.960 where they have successfully selected jewelry. So I'm not of 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:37.759 the mind that they won't be able to do it here. 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:40.759 It just has to be very carefully undertaken. You can 0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:45.880 have people who have a predisposition of guilt or innocence 0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:49.240 prior to their being seated as a juror and listening 0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:52.200 to the evidence that is accepted in the court. How 0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:54.479 much if you had to bet on it? How much 0:37:54.560 --> 0:37:58.480 of a spectacle do you think Donald Trump will try 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:00.640 to make out of this arrest or do you think 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:03.719 it's going to be handled as you know all the 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:07.560 high profile arrests are. He turns himself in, he gets 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:10.440 you booked, we see the mug shots eventually, but not 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.400 a lot of hoop law. Are you asking whether Donald 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:17.960 Trump is able to change his spots at this point 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:20.480 in his life. I think the answer to that probably 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.840 is no. I expect that, as with the other cases 0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:28.120 with lawyers who have begged him to please ratcheted down 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:31.239 and he has refused, that will be the case here there. 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:34.719 I don't think any lawyer really wants their client out 0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:38.279 in the public speaking the way the President has spoken 0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:41.279 in previous cases. So I don't think the president is 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:44.600 capable of change. Lucky, there's no escalator to come down 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.760 to the arraignment. If you're part of the Trump legal team, 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.640 I mean, are you pretty confident that you understand all 0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:53.560 the evidence against your client at this point or could 0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:57.439 there be a process of discovery where you learn more 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:02.680 about the evidence that would be kind of incriminating you 0:39:02.920 --> 0:39:05.719 for your client. I think you have a sense of 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:09.160 what's going on here evidentually, but of course you want 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:11.600 to find out more. You want to know there have 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:14.359 been people going in and out of that grand jury 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.360 for a very long time, there have been documents have 0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:19.080 been presented today grandjury for a very low time, and 0:39:19.120 --> 0:39:23.520 as defense counsel, you're entitled to know about this stuff, 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:27.760 and so you're going to vigorously seek additional information about 0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:31.399 what the charges are. But that said, I think that 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:36.279 the lawyers for Trump understand pretty fundamentally what's at play here. 0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:42.640 Joan Anything, Well, I'm sort of I think I think we've, 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:47.000 like I know what, let's talk about the Special counsel 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.279 for a minute and that investigation. Do you think that 0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:55.640 investigation will overtake this investigation? Which of the aspects of 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:58.240 the Special Council, of the Moro Lago documents or genuinely 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:00.360 either one? You pick? You pick one. If there's a 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:04.799 there's a whole realm of possible indictments here, and we'll 0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:07.440 be on air now till about nine tonight. Which is 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:11.640 the stronger case as you see things at this point? Well, 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.680 it's interesting because both cases now have had very recent 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:19.680 important developments. In both cases, I believe that the prosecutor 0:40:19.719 --> 0:40:24.799 has needed more direct evidence tying Donald Trump to the activities. 0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:28.160 So in Mara Lago, I think we needed more evidence 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:32.600 about Trump and the documents and what he said and 0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:35.600 did with respect to those documents. We now know that 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:42.000 his former lawyer Corkran, who tried to evade testimony assertions 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.239 of executive privilege, has been required to testify and he 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.759 was in the grand jury for three hours. We know 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:52.840 that the person who worked on Trump's security team that 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:57.080 actually moved the boxes may well have to testify too, 0:40:57.120 --> 0:40:59.920 So those are very important witnesses to understand whether they 0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:05.200 obstructionist behavior. Similarly, in January six we now know that 0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:08.720 Mark Meadows and a whole host of other inner circle 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:13.520 Trump people have been required to testify in that case. 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:18.200 So in both cases we're getting inside the sort of 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:22.719 dome of Trump's inner circle to see what Trump knew 0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:26.640 and did. And I think both of those cases there 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.000 for are in a much stronger position they were a 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.279 week or so ago, which is the more which is 0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.000 a stronger case. I think the Mari Lago case is 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.840 the more straightforward case if they can tie Trump to 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:45.239 obstructing the investigation, that is, he gave directions of any 0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:48.680 sort to not reply to the grandeous speedis I think 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.880 it's a much more cut and dried case. The January 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:57.120 sixth case of conspiracy to evade, to avoid, and to 0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:01.600 obstruct the transfer power a little bit more complicated case. 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:03.480 So if I had to pick one or the other, 0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:05.640 if I were prosecutives that pick one or the other 0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:08.080 to try, and I had the evidence to tie Trump 0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:11.000 to the activity. I'll go at the Marlongo doc so 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:15.479 Michael June made the case earlier that Special Council Jack 0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:19.360 Smith has been moving very, very expeditiously, and I'm wondering 0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:22.920 whether or not the developments today this indictment from the 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:25.360 New York DA proves to be a little bit of 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:28.279 an accelerant to that process, does it or does Jack 0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:31.839 Smith continue to move at his own pace irrespective of 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.480 what we've learned today. I think the latter. I think 0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.799 that he has to be bound by the law and 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:42.360 facts in his case that this doesn't put any additional 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:45.120 pressure on him to be second, if you will, I 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:47.799 think that all of these guys, unless they have a 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:50.960 statue of limitations like New York had where they had 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.319 to move quickly before the statue of limitations ran out, 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:57.759 which is still a sort of an issue there, I 0:42:57.800 --> 0:42:59.720 think these guys have to go at their own pace 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:03.520 and make their determinations on the facts and the evidence 0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:06.120 that they're able to acquire. Great conversation, Michael, thank you 0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:07.920 so much for making time to chat with us on 0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:12.239 today's developments. He is Michael Zeldon, former federal prosecutor and 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:15.480 former special counsel to Robert Muller when he worked at 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.200 the Department of Justice June. Before we get to our 0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:20.719 next guest, is there anything that came out of that 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:23.759 conversation that caused you to think of something in a 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:26.759 way maybe that you hadn't thought of previously. Well, I 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:30.200 think you know, truth be told, we've all discussed these 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:33.000 cases and they haven't even been brought yet. We've all 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:36.680 discussed these cases over and over and over again, all 0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:38.759 the little details. I mean, how many cases do you 0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:41.360 know about each subpoena that's been served in all the 0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:44.480 different objections to the subpoena end, do you get a 0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.759 comment from the possible defendant on it? So, I think 0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:50.680 that you know, we know the facts. As Bob min 0:43:50.760 --> 0:43:53.960 sends before, the facts are not going to surprise us 0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:56.480 in this case. We know the facts. The question is 0:43:56.520 --> 0:44:00.600 whether putting those facts before a jury and the novel theory, 0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:04.000 whether the jury will convict. Let's bring in Jack Fitzpatrick. 0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:07.120 He is Bloomberg government congressional reporter who joins us on 0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:10.280 the line from Washington. Jack, have you had any reaction 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:12.440 or learned of any reaction on the part of the 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:17.080 White House not from the White House yet. It'll be 0:44:17.160 --> 0:44:19.480 very interesting to see how they handle this. It is 0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:24.520 such an unprecedented event that it's hard to imagine that 0:44:24.560 --> 0:44:27.279 they will not put out a comment. But at the 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:32.800 same time, with the legal troubles around former President Trump, 0:44:32.840 --> 0:44:36.840 it's not something that President Biden has engaged in very frequently, 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:39.960 so it's a difficult position for them. But at this 0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:43.120 point they are They have not put out a statement 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:45.799 just yet. It is six forty on Wall Street. You're 0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:49.680 listening to a special coverage. Normally it would be Daybreak Asia, 0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:52.960 but we have preempted that programming to cover the indictment 0:44:53.000 --> 0:44:56.000 of former President Donald Trump here in New York City 0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:59.879 by the city's District Attorney, the charge directing hush money 0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:03.840 payments to a porn star during his twenty sixteen campaign. 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.480 I say that loosely because June, at this point we 0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:09.400 don't know of the specific charges. I just want to 0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:11.640 be specific about that, and I also want to be 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:15.480 specific in bringing back into the conversation Bloomberg's Ed Baxter, 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:18.160 who joins us from our newsroom in San Francisco. Eddie, 0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:20.640 I'll turn things over to you, let me ask Jack. 0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:22.640 Then I want to I want to and I know 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:26.480 that we've talked about this during the hour, but how 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:29.040 do mister Trump will try? He's a master of rolling 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:32.160 this and spenning this. How does he spin it and 0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.440 actually politically I guess we'll have to wait and see 0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:40.239 some But does this work in his favor? He will 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:42.560 definitely try to make this work in his favor. It 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:47.680 raises some questions about how many people will consider this 0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:50.560 something that works in his favor. There is a statement 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.719 out by the former president, a long statement essentially thinking 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:59.280 this is political persecution and election interference. It's a long 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:03.280 list of his complains about how he's been treated, taking 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:08.600 shots at the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg considering that he 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:11.959 got out in front of this. This for his die 0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:17.600 hard supporters could present a fundraising opportunity, but it certainly 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:21.880 raises questions about how other Republicans respond to it. What 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:24.239 Ron De Santis has to say, what Nicky Haley has 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.400 to say, what maybe more moderate Republican voters think about this. 0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:30.759 So it may be sort of a split answer in 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:34.480 terms of if it helps him with some die hard 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:38.520 supporters but hurts him elsewhere. Now appalling wise, he is 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:44.640 still acting showing very very very strongly with his base. 0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:48.600 But within the Republican Party, have we seen any signs 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:54.239 whatsoever that an indictment could weaken that support or do 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:57.680 we know or could have strengthen it. That is very 0:46:57.760 --> 0:47:00.600 difficult to predict, and to be honest, at this point 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:03.160 when you look at the polls and you see he 0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:05.600 is the front runner in a sense. There was just 0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:10.080 a Fox News poll showing Trump in a theoretical Republican 0:47:10.640 --> 0:47:14.240 primary matchup with fifty four percent, a thirty point advantage 0:47:14.280 --> 0:47:17.439 over RHN DE Santists. But remember that it is still 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:21.440 March twenty twenty three. Desantists has not launched a campaign. 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:25.600 People are not coming after him just yet. A lot 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:30.279 of Republicans are playing this very carefully, maybe alluding to 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:32.520 it at times. There is a statement by Decantists that 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:37.120 will alluded to his legal troubles, but really, we won't 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:40.239 know how this plays in polls one until we get 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.120 the polls in two, until someone whether it's RHN DE 0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:47.560 Santist or some other competition decides to go after him 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:49.520 and make it an issue and try to really make 0:47:49.520 --> 0:47:52.920 a run. Yeah, Jack's hanging there for a second, because 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:54.920 we are getting a headline up on the terminal that 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:58.560 it looks like the arraignment, at least according to CNN, 0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:01.279 will happen our early next week. So June, let me 0:48:01.320 --> 0:48:05.160 ask you, and for somebody who's just tuning in to Bloomberg, 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:08.960 the legal process itself. Obviously, it's not going to be 0:48:08.960 --> 0:48:12.880 as public as the end quotes average citizen. But what 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:16.640 do we expect for the arraignment and for any kind 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:21.520 of arrest. Well, first of all, Alvin Bragg's office is 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:26.320 going to work with Donald Trump's attorneys to arrange him 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:29.360 turning himself in, so there won't be any purer walk. 0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:32.399 There won't be any handcuffs, though I have heard that 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:36.120 there have been discussions about whether or not there might 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:39.960 be handcuffs at some point. That's still an issue apparently, 0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:43.440 but there don't have to be handcuffs. And also, the 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:48.279 Secret Service has been coordinating security plans with the NYPD, 0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:51.440 and the event of an indictment in arraignment, the arraignment 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.919 would take place in open courtroom in Manhattan. Trump would 0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:59.280 be fingerprinted and booked before that, and that mug shot 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:02.720 most likely will find its way to you know, every 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:06.120 media outlet in the country. So as far as that 0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:09.800 the fingerprinting and the booking that would be done as 0:49:09.880 --> 0:49:13.080 in any other case, and then he'll be arraigned in 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:18.320 open court. And as I said before, it's it's not likely, 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:21.239 it's unlikely that he you know, that there would be 0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:24.840 any question of bail or anything like that. They'll release 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:28.480 him on his own recognizance, and then the next step 0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:31.359 depends on, you know, the judge when the next date 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:33.880 is that they'll do something in court. But you know, 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:35.919 a lot of this is up to Donald Trump, whether 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:39.520 he wants to keep this, you know, just driving down 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:42.160 to the office and turning himself in, or whether he's 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:45.239 going to come out of the court house after that 0:49:45.360 --> 0:49:48.920 and appear before his whoever's gathered there. I mean, you 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:51.759 have to say one thing, The New York Police Department 0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:54.920 is ready for whatever happened. They have barricades up, they 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:57.879 have put special cameras on top of the telephone poles, 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.320 and they're prepared for this. They've dealt with all kinds 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:06.839 of you know, large groups in different circumstances, and I 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:09.600 don't think anything will happen in New York. I think 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:13.319 they're well prepared for what's going to For whatever happens here. Yeah, 0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:15.359 and of course there have been just in social media, 0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:18.000 there have been memes there, you know, the late night 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:22.720 comedians have shown pictures of him behind bars. At this point, 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:26.439 there's no realistic thinking that he will spend any time 0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:30.160 in jail or is there No. I don't know even 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:32.600 if he's convicted, if he would spend any time in jail. 0:50:32.640 --> 0:50:35.160 To tell you the truth, just remember this, he travels 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:38.920 with a Secret Service contingent. So if you even thought 0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:41.320 about putting him in jail with a Secret Service agents 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:43.600 being the cell with him, would they be outside? There's 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:46.680 no way he will. He will be held in a 0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:52.560 in a prison cell. Yeah, Okay, and Jack then you know, politically, 0:50:52.560 --> 0:50:55.719 he's still doing a lot of stuff on social media 0:50:55.800 --> 0:51:00.359 and campaign he has announced for the presidency. Does this 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:04.280 keep him from from doing any of the campaign rallies, 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:07.120 to do any of campaigning, or do we expect that 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:10.800 he might even step it up? Well, well, we'll see 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.520 how the exactly how this plays out and what the 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:16.200 logistics of it are. But I mean it's something he's 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:20.760 already played up. He also has not been extremely active 0:51:20.840 --> 0:51:24.440 yet because we are early in the presidential cycle for 0:51:24.520 --> 0:51:27.640 twenty twenty four. He hasn't been, you know, Cris crossing 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:32.640 the country constantly on a presidential campaign trail. So there 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.000 are a lot of unknowns, but it does not seem 0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:37.480 like we are at a point right now where this 0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:42.920 would immediately interfere with his political plans. In fact, it's 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:46.440 something that he has played up and potentially could fundraise 0:51:46.520 --> 0:51:48.600 off of. Not that this is a good thing for 0:51:48.680 --> 0:51:52.080 him overall, necessarily, but it is something that he is 0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.520 speaking out about very publicly and seemingly trying to use 0:51:56.800 --> 0:52:01.160 to motivate his core supporters. Still, okay, Jack, Hey, thank 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:03.000 you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. 0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:08.399 Bloomberg's Jack Fitzpatrick, Um, let's bring in June. You're still there, 0:52:08.440 --> 0:52:11.879 I know, and we're going to bring in Joshua at Katzenberg, 0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:15.200 professor at University of New Mexico Law School. I know 0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:17.840 you know Joshua very well. June. You want to go ahead, 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:21.439 and well, you know, I'll ask the question. The first 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:24.759 question that we're that we're asking basically every guest, is 0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:30.319 what's your reaction to this finally happening. Well, I think 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:33.799 it's settles, you know, it settles a question in my 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:38.239 mind as to whether or not a former president can 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:40.839 ever be indicted. You know, we've seen this happen in 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:47.000 other democracies, in Italy, in France, in particular, in Japan. 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:50.600 You know, there was a Japanese prime minister indicted over 0:52:50.640 --> 0:52:54.960 a Lockheed scandal in the nineteen seventies. And so I 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.160 don't think it's an unhealthy thing for a former president 0:52:58.239 --> 0:53:02.680 to be on the same position is everybody else in 0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:08.720 the country. But but yeah, I'm surprised that it happened 0:53:08.719 --> 0:53:12.080 with the rapidity it did. Yeah, So so Joshua the 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:15.680 path of this, then he'll go through because this is 0:53:15.960 --> 0:53:19.920 a Manhattan District attorney, so he'll go through basically a 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:23.480 local process. He in the past has liked to go 0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:26.879 in the process of basically appealing everything all the way 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:30.319 up to the Supreme Court. Where how does this go? 0:53:30.400 --> 0:53:33.840 Where does it end? Well, most of it will stay 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:37.160 in state court. It's very difficult to get a federal 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:41.560 court to review state criminal court actions. There is a 0:53:41.640 --> 0:53:45.800 very narrow appeal process under the federal rules of civil 0:53:45.840 --> 0:53:49.080 procedure to do so. But we don't know what arguments 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:52.560 will raise and just the this isn't fair, it's politically 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:56.640 motivated that doesn't get you into federal court. What is 0:53:56.719 --> 0:53:59.640 likely to flow this process down is something known as 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:05.200 this goovery. The defense counsel in this case will undoubtedly 0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:09.799 file dozens and dozens of motions that are not frivolous 0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:13.440 but will come up the works, and so we won't 0:54:13.480 --> 0:54:15.920 have an answer as to what the jury will see 0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:22.120 for a while to come. Okay, And does this any 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:25.120 way interact with the timing of the other cases, I 0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:27.960 know with us Hour, we've talked about We've talked about Georgia. 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:33.080 You have also the classified documents. Do just behind the 0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:36.520 scenes in the legal boardrooms. Do you wait and time 0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:38.759 and do this or can all of these kind of 0:54:39.400 --> 0:54:44.360 merge together? Well? You know, the New York Manhattan District 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:48.560 Attorney in the Fulton County prosecutor down in Georgia are 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:54.200 running two completely independent investigations, and so my sense is 0:54:54.239 --> 0:54:57.080 they probably didn't do much in the way of coordinating, 0:54:57.120 --> 0:55:01.680 nor should they. The federal investigation is a different matter 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:04.880 to the We don't know the extent which the federal 0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:08.799 government may have or did not assist in either of 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:13.520 those two investigations. Obviously, some of the data that was 0:55:13.560 --> 0:55:16.960 developed in the January sixth commission by the House of 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:22.800 Representatives could be used in either of the two state investigations, 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:27.879 but particularly so in the Georgia one. Yeah, okay, now yeah, 0:55:27.880 --> 0:55:32.200 and that they in Georgia they've actually said that they're 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:35.680 moving forward on that as well. So if I'm hearing 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:38.440 you correctly, they could all they could all be working 0:55:39.040 --> 0:55:43.320 simultaneously at the same time, couldn't they. Yeah. Absolutely, And 0:55:43.640 --> 0:55:47.040 in response to an earlier question that someone else was 0:55:47.080 --> 0:55:50.359 asked on the show about how does this effect as 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:55.400 campaigning under ordinary New York and frankly the other forty 0:55:55.480 --> 0:56:00.279 nine states criminal justice systems, there's a valid reason for 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:03.719 delaying a trial in terms of the lawyers having to 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:06.840 get ready for a trial. It's a very unique argument 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:10.160 to say, hey, I'm running for political office, so I 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:14.360 can't go to trial on this date. That probably doesn't 0:56:14.400 --> 0:56:18.800 fall into the category of a reasonable request to delay trial, 0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:23.279 but you never know, so, Jessure, we expected that this 0:56:23.680 --> 0:56:26.000 indictment was going to come out last week, and then 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:30.239 we had a witness called basically by Trump's lawyers to 0:56:30.560 --> 0:56:35.080 attack the credibility of Michael Cohen, and then we had 0:56:35.120 --> 0:56:39.480 a rebuttal sort of witness called by the prosecutors. Do 0:56:39.520 --> 0:56:42.759 you think that the prosecutors in this case did too 0:56:42.880 --> 0:56:48.560 much in the grand jury called too many witnesses and why, Well, 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:50.400 you know, it's hard to know. And the reason I 0:56:50.480 --> 0:56:55.640 say that it's hard to know is is that they 0:56:55.680 --> 0:56:58.640 may have wanted to put on the strongest case possible 0:56:58.760 --> 0:57:03.719 to withstand a appeals against the indictment as opposed to 0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:07.799 appeals against the potential conviction, should one ever happen. And 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:11.880 so my senses that's why they probably frontloaded the grand 0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:16.200 jury with as many witnesses as they did. Now, having 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:20.040 said that, that doesn't tie them into calling those witnesses 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:22.400 and the actual criminal trial. So I don't think it 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:26.800 was a mistake to do that. But I do think 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:30.640 that I don't have a sense that mister Bragg wanted 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:34.520 this news release today. Maybe he did, but this news 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:38.040 broke from an anonymous source to the New York Times, 0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:42.880 and then three anonymous sources came through. And what that 0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:48.240 tells me is that it's probably occurred before mister Bragg 0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:51.640 wanted it too, and before all of the law enforcement 0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:55.880 was ready for it to occur. Yeah, and that would 0:57:55.880 --> 0:58:01.560 coincide with the grand jury itself on a three week vacation. 0:58:01.680 --> 0:58:04.000 I mean, this came basically out of a blue and 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:08.280 a surprise, I would say to most anybody, Yeah, I'm 0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:11.840 wondering if someone jumped the gun for personally, you know, 0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:15.200 for personal or political reasons, kind of like the grand 0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:19.760 juror who leaked information publicly so we know her identity 0:58:19.800 --> 0:58:24.440 down in Fulton County, Georgia. That's my sense that now 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:28.080 there is another possibility of the grand jury being on 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:31.560 a vacation for three weeks. And that possibility is what 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:35.520 if mister Bragg intended that grand jury to investigate the 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:41.000 potential for other charges, so it could have been Yeah, 0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:43.760 that's why the vacation could have occurred. They got more 0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:46.560 witnesses together, but they couldn't get those witnesses before the 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:51.320 grand jury for another three weeks. And I'm fascinated just 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:53.680 in the Trump defense, and of course it's going to 0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:55.600 be different in the courtroom than what we're going to 0:58:55.680 --> 0:59:02.320 hear mister Trump trying to tweet on truth social where 0:59:02.320 --> 0:59:05.800 it's a witch hunt, where it's persecution, all of those 0:59:05.880 --> 0:59:09.200 kinds of things. There's a paper trail that goes back 0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:12.720 to him writing a check to Michael Kohn going through 0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:15.920 all of that stuff. Also with Trump denying that anything 0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:20.320 ever had had happened at that was personal expense. Your take, 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:24.280 does any of that I have the possibility of holding 0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:27.960 legal water. No. I mean, first of all, in order 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.640 to get some of that evidence in the I didn't 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:35.200 know or it didn't happen. You know, I'm hard pressed 0:59:35.240 --> 0:59:37.960 to think that in order for that to come before 0:59:38.000 --> 0:59:40.800 a jury, he'd have to take the stand. And if 0:59:40.800 --> 0:59:44.440 I were his defense counsel, he's that type of witness 0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:47.600 I would not want taking the standard being subject across 0:59:47.680 --> 0:59:51.320 examination because of all the conflicting things he said, and 0:59:51.360 --> 0:59:54.280 he's tweeted. You want if a defendant takes the stand, 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:57.000 you want them to be consistent above all else. And 0:59:57.240 --> 0:59:59.880 you know, mister Trump has not been consistent. I have 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:02.280 he said that the other parts of the tweets or 1:00:02.320 --> 1:00:04.640 the other subject areas of his tweets about being a 1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:07.760 witch hunt. That's not evidence that's going to come before 1:00:07.760 --> 1:00:11.560 a jury. Um, you know, this is a politically charged pace. 1:00:11.680 --> 1:00:15.240 That allegation or they're out to get me. That allegation, 1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:19.120 that's not evidence. That could be an argument raised before 1:00:19.160 --> 1:00:23.400 I judge to dismiss the charges. But it's really unlikely 1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:25.480 that it would ever go you know, that kind of 1:00:25.520 --> 1:00:29.280 an argument would ever be placed before a jury. Yeah, okay, Well, 1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:33.120 and and just very very quickly here will we see 1:00:33.160 --> 1:00:37.880 Donald Trump on the stand? I doubt it. Yeah, like 1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:40.680 I look like I said, You know, I wouldn't if 1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:45.320 I were a defense counsel, I'd be very wary about 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:49.560 it's his choice. A defense counsel can't stop him. But 1:00:49.640 --> 1:00:51.520 he said a lot of different things about a lot 1:00:51.600 --> 1:00:54.360 of different things, and that would be great fought or 1:00:54.360 --> 1:00:57.840 to cross him. If for the prosecutor, it would be 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:00.720 just just from the outside, it would be fun. Joshua, 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:04.440 thank you very much, really appreciate your time. Joshua Kassenberg, Professor, 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:08.240 University of New Mexico Law School. June is here going 1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:12.360 to bring Doug Krisner back into the conversation, you guys, thoughts, June. 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.200 One of the things I'm most curious about is whether 1:01:15.280 --> 1:01:17.000 or not there's going to be any reaction on the 1:01:17.040 --> 1:01:18.640 part of the public here in New York. You were 1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:21.600 talking earlier about both the Secret Service in the NYPD 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:26.680 taking preemptive measures around the courthouse in Lower Manhattan, right yeah, 1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:29.760 and you know, when this first came out or when 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:32.880 Donald Trump said that he was going to be arrested, 1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:35.880 which was less Saturday, and so Saturday before last hot 1:01:35.880 --> 1:01:40.000 time flies. So we expected a lot of demonstrations, A 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.440 lot of people in the New York Police Department ramped 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:45.920 up for that, and we found very little people. In fact, 1:01:45.920 --> 1:01:50.800 the press outnumbered the protesters outside the courthouse and outside 1:01:50.800 --> 1:01:54.840 Trump Tower, where you usually find any kind of protesters 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:58.760 for or against Trump there. So, you know, I think 1:01:58.840 --> 1:02:01.920 that a lot of people bull who might be you know, 1:02:02.040 --> 1:02:05.680 avid Trump supporters might be scared off off a little 1:02:05.720 --> 1:02:11.160 by the January sixth investigation and prosecutions where you know, 1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:13.320 they came, some of them came to something that they 1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:16.440 didn't know what would happen, and boom, they ended up 1:02:16.800 --> 1:02:21.160 being inside the you know, the capital and getting prosecuted. 1:02:21.160 --> 1:02:23.320 So I think a lot of people who are you know, 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:27.520 who might be the really avid supporters might stay back. 1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:32.400 And you know the problem is too that since Trump 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:35.960 said this, it's been people have been worked up, worked up, 1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:40.720 worked up. Now that it's happened, it's almost anticlimactic in 1:02:40.760 --> 1:02:43.240 a way. And it's the same with his saying it's 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:45.479 a witch hunt. It's a witch hunt. It's a witch hunt. 1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:48.680 How many times can you say that? And that's something 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:50.600 that the jury. He's not going to be able to 1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:53.840 preach that to the jury in any of these cases. 1:02:53.880 --> 1:02:56.000 It's going to be based on what happens, you know, 1:02:56.080 --> 1:02:59.120 in the courtroom and the testimony. So I think that 1:02:59.240 --> 1:03:02.800 I'm not expected acting anything to happen, but you never know, 1:03:03.000 --> 1:03:05.160 You never do know, Eddie. And I heard you earlier 1:03:05.200 --> 1:03:08.080 saying that CNN had been reporting that mister Trump will 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:10.960 likely be arraigned early next week. Is that right? Yeah, Yeah, 1:03:11.000 --> 1:03:15.080 that is the preliminary report, and they were early on 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:17.600 in the reporting of this. Just very briefly from me, Doug, 1:03:17.640 --> 1:03:20.080 I think that it's gonna be really interesting to see 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:24.160 how the base of the Republican Party, not the not 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:27.440 the Trump not the MAGA base, but the base plays 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:29.720 this to see as we go forward toward the election. 1:03:30.360 --> 1:03:32.680 All right, that we'll wrap up a special hour of 1:03:32.800 --> 1:03:35.520 coverage here on Bloomberg Radio. As we tracked the news 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:39.400 on Donald Trump being indicted in New York by the 1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:43.400 Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and CNN reporting earlier that 1:03:43.480 --> 1:03:47.040 mister Trump will likely be arraigned earlier next week. This 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:47.680 is Bloomberg