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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 1: We're joined now by Jasper Nathaniel and the Infinite Jazz substack,

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Speaker 1: recently back from the West Bank. Jasper, thank you for

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Speaker 1: joining us.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me back.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we want to start with some audio here

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump criticizing Benjamin Yahoo, who is in Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC for I believe his eighth visit over the course

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Speaker 1: of the most recent Trump presidency. And here's Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: criticizing actually net and Yahoo before their MEETI yesterday over

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Speaker 1: their disagreements in the Iran war tool the clip.

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Speaker 5: You say that Iran will not have a nuclear weapon.

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Speaker 1: There are reports now.

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Speaker 5: That y'all, who's going to talk to you about ongoing

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Speaker 5: excavation at Pickaxe Mountain, construction, vehicles entering and exting, exiting tunnels,

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Speaker 5: paving new access roads. Satellite imagery and intel indicates that

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Speaker 5: Iran is actively constructing and fortifying Pickaxe Mountain.

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Speaker 6: How will we respond, Well, I don't need BB to

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Speaker 6: tell me that. BB's telling me that because he wants

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Speaker 6: me to stay involved. I mean, I don't necessarily. We

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Speaker 6: have the finest because of space for us. We have

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Speaker 6: the greatest cameras in the world. Focused. We know exactly

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Speaker 6: what's going on. But now I heard BB announced that,

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Speaker 6: I said, why didn't you just tell them to me?

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Speaker 6: Why do you have to announce it to the world.

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Speaker 6: I know exactly what's going on at Pickaxs. It's not

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Speaker 6: a big problem. We took out their nuclear sites, and

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Speaker 6: we'll have to take out pick Acts if we don't

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Speaker 6: make a deal. We don't make a deal, we'll take

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Speaker 6: it out very easily.

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Speaker 1: That's obviously. Trump on Fox and Friends after their meeting

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Speaker 1: later in the dayt Yahoo, we can put the next

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Speaker 1: element up on the screen, said, I have just finished

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Speaker 1: an excellent meeting with President Trump. When I say excellent,

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Speaker 1: it's not just lip service, a conversation with full partnership,

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Speaker 1: with mutual support, with an understanding of the common goal

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Speaker 1: of ensuring that Iran will not have nuclear weapons, as

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Speaker 1: well as other goals. One of the best conversations I've

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Speaker 1: ever had with the President of the United States. Our

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Speaker 1: friend Donald Trump. His entire senior team was there, as

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Speaker 1: was our senior team, and here too was an important

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Speaker 1: or was an opportunity to exchange ideas and also to

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Speaker 1: coordinate things that are important for the security in the

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Speaker 1: future of the United States. That is according to a

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Speaker 1: translation from Hebrew. Meanwhile, Barack Revide reported unsurprisingly that a

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Speaker 1: diminished nt Yahoo arrived for his moment with Trump, for

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Speaker 1: his meeting with Trump. So Jasper, just with all of

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Speaker 1: this happening yesterday, can you help us from your perspective

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Speaker 1: understand perhaps in Israeli media, why this meeting between in

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Speaker 1: Yahoo and in Israeli politics by this meaning between yah

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Speaker 1: who yah? Who was pushing it. He's trying to show

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Speaker 1: that he's still really close with Trump while Trump is

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Speaker 1: criticizing him. What does all of this mean? Sort of

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Speaker 1: domestically from your perspective, at least for men Yaho.

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Speaker 4: Well, the main thing to keep in mind is that

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Speaker 4: there's an election coming up in Israel in a couple

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Speaker 4: of months, and nen Yahoo's facing probably the biggest challenge

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Speaker 4: that he's that he's faced in years, and he's desperately

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Speaker 4: trying to get an endorsement from Trump right now. Actually,

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Speaker 4: you know, obviously Nenya and Trump have been in lockstep

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Speaker 4: for a long time, and now there's some daylight between them,

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Speaker 4: and Trump keeps sort of dodging the question about whether

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Speaker 4: or not he's going to endorse then Yaho. So I

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Speaker 4: think there's just a very clear, you know, political element

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Speaker 4: of this outside of you know, the the various wars

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Speaker 4: that are going on that Israel is trying to keep

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Speaker 4: the US involved with. But you know, that's obviously the

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Speaker 4: second part. I think that it has perhaps finally dawned

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Speaker 4: on Trump, or at least on the people around Trump

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Speaker 4: that you know, his interest, his political interest in getting

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Speaker 4: out of the war with Iran is diametrically opposed to

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Speaker 4: nn Yahoo's interest to having a forever war because you know,

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Speaker 4: he is a wartime prime minister and he really has

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Speaker 4: sort of he rides the wave of war to winning

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Speaker 4: every election, and so you know they have competing interests

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Speaker 4: right now, which is causing some obvious tension.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we should note that then Trump went on

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Speaker 2: Fox and Friends this morning and was like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: had a great meeting with Bobe et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So and well let's put us he three up on

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Speaker 2: the screens. The latest Barock reviewed report about how a

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Speaker 2: diminished bb arrives for his moment with Trump and laying

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Speaker 2: out some of these alleged tensions between them. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what to make of these reports at this point, Jasper,

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Speaker 2: because we had this endlessly with buy No. Biden's very

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Speaker 2: mad at Bebe and they're, you know, the their relationship

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Speaker 2: is strained, and he yelled at him, and we've had

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Speaker 2: the same cycle of reports over and over again. Rum

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Speaker 2: Barock revied at Axios about Trump as well, do you

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Speaker 2: see there? Do you think there is actual daylight between

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Speaker 2: them at this point? Because on the one hand, like

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Speaker 2: we can all look at the situation with Iran and go,

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Speaker 2: the best thing that could happen is for the US

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Speaker 2: to cut their losses and just get out of this thing.

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Speaker 2: Whatever is required, find give them the straight of horn moves.

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Speaker 2: Apparently that's never coming back, like it.

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Speaker 7: Is what it is.

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Speaker 2: But Trump seems to be making different calculations on an

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Speaker 2: almost near daily basis. So what do you make of

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Speaker 2: these friction with net Nyahu reports at this point?

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Speaker 4: This is actually one that I'm taking a little more

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Speaker 4: seriously than I have in the past. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: with the Biden administration, these these barock revied reports of

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Speaker 4: you know, Biden, you know, fuming about Nnyaho behind closed

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Speaker 4: doors like that was basically the White House is pr

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Speaker 4: strategy to be able to endlessly support Israel's genocide against

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Speaker 4: the people of Gaza while you know, maintaining a facade

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Speaker 4: of some humanity. Now you know, there is actually daylight,

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Speaker 4: like I said, because you know, Nan Yahoo and Trump

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Speaker 4: are are both you know, I mean, obviously they're both politicians,

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Speaker 4: but they're they're both completely self interested, specifically self interested

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Speaker 4: in like staying in power, because Nan Yahoo, like Trump,

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Speaker 4: has all sorts of corruption suits against him, and the

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Speaker 4: minute he's out of power, he's he's much more vulnerable

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Speaker 4: to being prosecuted. And I think that the Iran war

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Speaker 4: where it stands right now, they do actually have competing interests.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's sort of straightforward. Trump wants out

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Speaker 4: because he sees it as a political loser. Nan Ya

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Speaker 4: who wants in because you know, he needs to, like

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Speaker 4: I said, he needs to be at war. But also

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Speaker 4: it's been his lifelong project to take out the government

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Speaker 4: in Iran. So I think that there is daylight between

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Speaker 4: them basically, and and I think we'll see how it

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Speaker 4: plays out. I mean, listen, it doesn't mean anything. As

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Speaker 4: you know, there's going to be a meaningful break. I

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Speaker 4: would not say that Trump is actually going to, you know,

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Speaker 4: pull out necessarily. I don't know, but that seems to

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Speaker 4: be what's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: New Pole actually here from the economist in you Goo.

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Speaker 1: We can put this element up on the screen. Americans

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Speaker 1: in every age group are more likely to support arresting

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Speaker 1: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Not in Yahoo than oppose it

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Speaker 1: if he enters the US. Well he did enter the US.

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Speaker 1: The poll was conducted from July twenty fifth to twenty seventh.

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Speaker 1: Forty nine percent of the public supported arrest well twenty

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Speaker 1: seven percent opposed it. And if you break it down

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Speaker 1: by age, it is in eighteen to twenty nine year

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Speaker 1: olds a fifty eight to seventeen percent gap thirty to

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Speaker 1: forty four, forty nine to twenty percent, and then it

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Speaker 1: starts to narrow a bit, but it's still double digits

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Speaker 1: forty five to sixty four that age demographic. Forty eight

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Speaker 1: percent support arrest, thirty one percent oppose it, and then

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Speaker 1: if you're sixty five years and older, it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit more split forty three percent to forty percent. MAGA

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Speaker 1: and conservatives totally oppose it fifty eight to twenty two percent,

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Speaker 1: and sixty one percent to twenty one percent that's MAGA

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Speaker 1: voters the latter, and fifty eight percent that is conservatives

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Speaker 1: the former. So basically everybody except for conservatives and mega

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Speaker 1: voters at this point support arresting Benjamin Netanyahu, and I

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Speaker 1: guess people who are sixty five and older, but even

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Speaker 1: that is pretty split. So I guess what's difficult then

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Speaker 1: to understand from behind the scenes with Trump and nets Yaho.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not just Netan Yaho, it's the donors who

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Speaker 1: are close with nets Yahoo too. I mean, think about

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Speaker 1: Miriam Adelson, although they have an interesting relationship, but people

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Speaker 1: like that who want Trump to support net yahou at

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Speaker 1: every step, Lakud at every step. They're completely out of

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Speaker 1: touch with the public on this. But Trump is it

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Speaker 1: seems Jasper been willing. You know, when we zoom out

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Speaker 1: a year from any kind of tit for tat in

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Speaker 1: the moment, he generally directionally goes with them. So it

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Speaker 1: might seem like in this moment that there's there's real daylight,

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Speaker 1: and clearly there is, But I guess what is the

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Speaker 1: likelihood that from a big picture perspective, when we're looking

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Speaker 1: back on this in a couple of years, we see

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Speaker 1: him making major steps against Natanyahu, even while you have

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Speaker 1: the public being so opposed in that Yahoo that they

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Speaker 1: believe he should be arrested by huge numbers.

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Speaker 4: Look, it's like everything with Trump, I mean, there's just

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Speaker 4: a web of you know, competing interests. I think most

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Speaker 4: of them financial, and it's impossible to know, you know,

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Speaker 4: which one is going to win out. Like you know,

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Speaker 4: this thing with the Saudi nuclear deal was a sort

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Speaker 4: of like perfect example where you know, he negotiates this

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Speaker 4: nuclear deal or the US negotiates a nuclear deal with

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Speaker 4: with Saudi Arabia. There's clearly, you know, financial incentive for

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Speaker 4: Trump to be doing you know, good business with them,

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Speaker 4: and then out of nowhere, he just says, oh, by

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Speaker 4: the way, it's contingent a normalization with Israel, which had

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Speaker 4: not been part of the deal at all, but took

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Speaker 4: everybody by surprise, and then apparently quietly he sort of

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Speaker 4: walked it back. And like, I don't think he thought

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Speaker 4: all that through. I think he's you know, going one

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Speaker 4: step at a time of like, what's going to help

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Speaker 4: me politically, what's going to help my pocketbook? And so

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Speaker 4: I just I just don't know.

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Speaker 1: With Trump.

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Speaker 4: I think that we in ten years from now, are

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Speaker 4: going to learn so much about all the different ways

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Speaker 4: him and his family and his cronies are financially benefiting

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Speaker 4: from this. Like you just can't overstate the degree to

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Speaker 4: which the Trump family is just tied up with you know,

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Speaker 4: financial interests in the Middle East. That I think that

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Speaker 4: is ultimately what wins out. That is also what has

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Speaker 4: you know, won out. In the moments when Trump finally

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Speaker 4: comes out and says something against West Bank annexation or

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Speaker 4: settler violence, those very rare moments, it's always because an

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Speaker 4: Arab leader told him he has to do it, you know,

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Speaker 4: and it puts Abraham a chords at risk or it puts,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of his deals at risk. So like

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Speaker 4: that's always what it's about for him.

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Speaker 2: I think is Trump still popular in Israel? Because I

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Speaker 2: know there was a moment after the MoU was signed

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Speaker 2: where there was all this like he's dabbed just in

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Speaker 2: the back, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 7: But is he still popular there?

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Speaker 4: I haven't seen the very very latest polling. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think he's still last I checked, he is still popular.

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Speaker 4: I think, you know, perhaps he is. His popularity has

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Speaker 4: fallen a little bit with the MoU. But you know,

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Speaker 4: as far as I know, the people of Israel generally

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Speaker 4: think that Trump has been, you know, their best friend

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Speaker 4: that they've ever had, even if they have a skirmish

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Speaker 4: every now and then so so, and that again is

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Speaker 4: why Nanya who's fighting so hard to get his endorsement

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Speaker 4: in the election.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's turn to what's going on in the

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Speaker 2: West Bank, and I'll have you explain this latest escalation.

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Speaker 2: There have been mass programs led by the IDF and

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Speaker 2: illegal settlers. This of course has been ongoing. And you

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Speaker 2: have been in the West Bank, you spent a month

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Speaker 2: there and are just recently back to be able to

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Speaker 2: document these ongoing programs against Palestinians in the West Bank,

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Speaker 2: but maybe explain to people this latest escalation that involved

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Speaker 2: one of the settlers being killed and now these really

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Speaker 2: some factions at least Israeli government admitting this wasn't even

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Speaker 2: at the hands of a Palestinian years to have been

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Speaker 2: because of friendly fire.

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Speaker 4: So taking an even bigger step back from that, just

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Speaker 4: to set the context on what's been happening the last

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Speaker 4: couple of months, probably since I was last on the show,

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Speaker 4: is that the settlers in the West Bank, who are

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Speaker 4: you know, sort of led by Smo Church and Ben

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Speaker 4: Gaver and the government, and they have their own you know,

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Speaker 4: political leaders too, they feel the clock potentially ticking, as

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Speaker 4: in if the government changes hands. It's not to say

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Speaker 4: the settlement movement is suddenly going to be disbanded, It's

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Speaker 4: certainly not, but there will you know, likely be less

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Speaker 4: direct financial institutional support for the settlers under you know,

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Speaker 4: an Eisenkott government than there is under a Nen Yahoo government.

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Speaker 4: And so they basically are are seeing this time right now,

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Speaker 4: these months before the election, as just a time for

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Speaker 4: a mad dash to grab as much land as they

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Speaker 4: possibly can. And so the settlers have effectively completed their

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Speaker 4: takeover of area Sea of the West Bank, which is

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Speaker 4: over sixty percent that's the part that is ostensibly controlled

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Speaker 4: by Israel, even though the land still belongs to Palestinians

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Speaker 4: and lots of Palestinians lived there. So the settlers have

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Speaker 4: wiped you know, dozens and dozens of Palestine communities off

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Speaker 4: the land area of Sea, and now they've basically set

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Speaker 4: their sights on areas A and B, which a couple

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Speaker 4: of years ago would have been just completely unheard of

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Speaker 4: for settlers to go and build an outpost in this

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Speaker 4: land that is supposed to be controlled by the Palestinian authority.

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Speaker 4: So that's the background heading into last Friday, when a

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Speaker 4: group of settlers who are coming from a settlement, This

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Speaker 4: settlement by the way, had just suffered terrible wildfires actually

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Speaker 4: that had burned numerous structures to the ground. They blamed

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Speaker 4: Palestinian terrorists, even though Israeli authorities say it was a

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Speaker 4: discarded cigarette, and you know, it is wildfire season over there,

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Speaker 4: so they already are you know, they have their justification

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Speaker 4: for violence against Palestinians, as they always do, but they're

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Speaker 4: always looking for another one. And so a group of

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Speaker 4: these settlers go out for what they call a hike.

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Speaker 4: This is a really classic euphemism among the settler movement,

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Speaker 4: where a group of settlers armed with machine guns go

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Speaker 4: into a Palestinian village, in this case the village of Tell,

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Speaker 4: which is an area's A and B where the settlers,

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Speaker 4: even according to Israeli law, are not allowed to be.

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Speaker 4: They go into the village and they are you know

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Speaker 4: what settler leader Elisha Yeared called, initiating friction. They are trying,

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Speaker 4: they are looking for provocations. And you know what happens

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Speaker 4: is a group of Palestinians come out from the village

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Speaker 4: of Tell. Tell has been attacked numerous times in the

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Speaker 4: last couple of months, so you know, perhaps they're not

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Speaker 4: all that open to a group of Israeli hikers with

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Speaker 4: machine guns coming into their village. There's some sort of

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Speaker 4: a confrontation. One of the Palestinians there is able to

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Speaker 4: wrestle a gun away from a settler, and the video

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Speaker 4: shows that the settler is the holding a pistol. He

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Speaker 4: reaches for a handgun and in that moment the Palestinian

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Speaker 4: shoots him dead. Then some time passes it may there's

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Speaker 4: there's a video where a settler suggested that it was

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Speaker 4: over an hour, but we see other video of the

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Speaker 4: Palestinian who shot the settler walking around with the gun down,

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Speaker 4: completely unarmed, and then you hear a settler shouting at

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Speaker 4: a soldier to kill him, and he does so. The

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Speaker 4: soldier then or it could have been a settler dressed

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Speaker 4: as a soldier sort of unclear, summarily executes the man

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Speaker 4: who who shot the settler and three of his cousins

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Speaker 4: while all of them are laying down on the ground

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Speaker 4: completely defenseless. At some point in this and in Israeli

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Speaker 4: soldier was also killed. Again. They immediately blamed the Palestinians,

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Speaker 4: but Israeli authorities are saying it looks like it was

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Speaker 4: probably friendly fire. So this happens. Six people are now dead,

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Speaker 4: two Israelis and four Palestinians. Immediately, without any hesitation, everybody

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Speaker 4: in Israel, the UH leadership from Yahu to you know,

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Speaker 4: the far right minister Ben Givier, to Eisenkott, who is

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Speaker 4: you know, who is you know running as part of

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Speaker 4: the opposition, He's supposed to be sort of the liberal

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Speaker 4: alternative to Nan Yahu to Yayrgan, who is you know,

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Speaker 4: potentially a new defense minister under Eisencott. They all come

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Speaker 4: out and called a severe terror attack by Palestinians against Israelis,

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Speaker 4: and they all call for a massive military response. And

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Speaker 4: that's exactly what happens. You know, for the next couple

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Speaker 4: of days, there's these huge military raids across across the

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Speaker 4: West Bank. Settlers are you know, calling for revenge and

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Speaker 4: and committing these terrible pugdrams. And you know what happens

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Speaker 4: is within a couple of days, there are several new

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Speaker 4: outposts set up all along the area where this occurred.

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Speaker 4: Nen Yahoo comes out and announces as part of the response,

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Speaker 4: they are going to expedite the legalization of these outposts.

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Speaker 4: And when he says that, he basically gives the whole

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Speaker 4: game away, which is that the settlers go out, they

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Speaker 4: try to provoke a response from Palestinians that then justifies violence.

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Speaker 4: That violence is then used to clear the land, which

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Speaker 4: is then used to put down a new settler foothold,

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Speaker 4: which the Israelly government then turns into a legal settlement.

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Speaker 4: And so that's the whole game right now. That's been

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Speaker 4: what's been happening for years basically, and this is basically

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Speaker 4: just a very sort of clear, discrete example of it.

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Speaker 1: Can we put defour up on the screen. This is

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Speaker 1: a tear sheet from Infinite Jazz. So this is Jasper's substack.

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Speaker 1: And obviously none of those caught you off guard, Jasper,

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Speaker 1: because you wrote, I've had countless settler encounters over the

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Speaker 1: past several years, but never have I seen them come

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Speaker 1: out swinging the way they are now, showing up in

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Speaker 1: a village and wasting no time before physically assaulting people.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it's because they know that they're far more

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Speaker 1: likely to be rewarded than punished, As you just described,

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Speaker 1: they are, after all, doing the state's bidding. And I

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Speaker 1: was hoping you could walk us through a bit of

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Speaker 1: what you saw on the ground, which was in the

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Speaker 1: lead up to some of what we've just talked about.

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Speaker 1: Like again, you've been to the West Bank many times,

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Speaker 1: and you right here that this actually was an escalation

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Speaker 1: from what you'd seen in the past.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, the two main sort of

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Speaker 4: takeaways from my last trip to the West Bank were

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Speaker 4: from this trip that you know just finished. Where number one,

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Speaker 4: like I said, the settlers have taken over much more land.

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Speaker 4: But number two, they're they're just much more aggressive and

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Speaker 4: much more violent. They're you know, coming into communities and

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Speaker 4: they're not wasting any time before they just start physically

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Speaker 4: assaulting people, including myself, including the local Palestinians, including activists.

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Speaker 4: And you know what I was just thinking the entire

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Speaker 4: time that I was there, when I was, you know,

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Speaker 4: seeing all these attacks and when I was being attacked myself,

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Speaker 4: was they desperately want one of us to respond. They

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Speaker 4: want one of us to hit them back, or to

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Speaker 4: throw somebody on the ground, or to reach for one

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Speaker 4: of their guns, because then they have the excuse to

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Speaker 4: come and level the entire village. And sure enough, you know,

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Speaker 4: that's exactly what happened a couple months ago. Earlier this year,

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Speaker 4: there was a similar incident in a village called bait

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Speaker 4: I Marine, which is not so far from Tell actually,

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Speaker 4: where a young settler was out on what they call

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Speaker 4: a land patrol, which is again where they drive into

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Speaker 4: a Palestinian village theoretically to patrol, but what they're actually

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Speaker 4: doing is initiating friction. That settler collided with a Palestinian vehicle,

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Speaker 4: crashed and died. It was immediately abled to terror attack

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Speaker 4: and it was used to justify pagrams, which then led

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Speaker 4: to the creation of numerous outposts which will eventually become settlements.

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Speaker 4: So it's a very very clear step by step process

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Speaker 4: whereby you know, the most violent settlers, many of whom

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Speaker 4: are armed by the State of Israel, who are directly

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Speaker 4: supported strategically, financially, you know, defensively by the State of Israel,

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Speaker 4: they go out, they you know, cause problems, they commit

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Speaker 4: acts of violence. Sometimes leaders of the Israeli government, when

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Speaker 4: the press gets too hot, will you know, condemn the violence.

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Speaker 4: Then Yahoo will call them, you know, juvenile delinquents. Occasionally

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Speaker 4: they will make an arrest. But you know, as soon

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Speaker 4: as the press stops paying attention to that particular attack,

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Speaker 4: the land that those violent settlers had seized through violence

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Speaker 4: is then recognized by the Israeli government as you know,

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Speaker 4: part of a new settlement. So it's just it's so clear,

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Speaker 4: and the way the map has actually changed in the

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Speaker 4: West Bank just in the last six seven months even

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Speaker 4: it's really striking. It shows just how much you know,

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Speaker 4: this whole idea that the Israeli government is against the

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Speaker 4: settler violence in any way is just completely backwards. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it is the settler of violence, is literally the tip

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Speaker 4: of the spear. It is the vanguard of the central

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Speaker 4: Israeli state project of annexing the West Bank.

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Speaker 2: Jasper, can you talk a little bit about how the

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Speaker 2: reality of what is being done in the West Bank

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Speaker 2: really undercuts some of the liberal Zionists here in the

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Speaker 2: US talking points about Israel number one in pushing for

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Speaker 2: a two state solution and number two in saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: the problem is just the extreme Netanyahu government. Once we

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Speaker 2: get these liberal reformers in, then Israel is going to

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Speaker 2: go back to whatever my fantasy of what Israel was

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Speaker 2: once was.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I mean there's this Skuy Eisenkott who is

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Speaker 4: sort of the the I think a lot of people

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Speaker 4: are considering him like the potential great liberal savior in Israel,

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Speaker 4: who's going to wrestle, you know, control away from the

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Speaker 4: right wing extremists like Nenyahu and Ben Givern Smotrivich. I mean,

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Speaker 4: putting aside his own sort of genocidal history, his own

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Speaker 4: military doctrines of using like disproportionate force.

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Speaker 7: Against the author of the Dahia doctrine, the author of

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Speaker 7: the literally.

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Speaker 4: Entire destroy civilian infrastructure in Lebanon or in Gaza to

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Speaker 4: you know, pressure the military. So you know, even just

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Speaker 4: putting all that though, you know, there is the the

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Speaker 4: popular liberal Zionis position, both in Israel and in the

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Speaker 4: United States and elsewhere, is against the settlement movement because

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Speaker 4: it is ostensibly you know, they want peace with the Palestinians,

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Speaker 4: they want you know, peaceful coexistence, and so you have

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Speaker 4: to come out against these you know, feral looking, violent

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Speaker 4: settlers who are who are attacking defenseless Palestinians. That is

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Speaker 4: why even men Yahoo occasionally, like when he was on

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Speaker 4: CNN a couple of weeks ago with Dana Bash, you know,

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Speaker 4: uses this line about a handful of juvenile delinquents, which

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Speaker 4: is obviously BS. I mean, we're talking about a massive

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Speaker 4: organization run by grown ups supported by the government. But

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Speaker 4: again look at if you take Eisenkott a couple months ago,

433
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 4: this may no headlines in the US. Of course, he

434
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 4: went out of his way to take a political trip

435
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 4: to an outpost in the West Bank that is known

436
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 4: as one of the more violent outposts. It is known

437
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 4: to everybody in the region as a place where settlers

438
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 4: are leaving from to attack Palestinians. I believe they have

439
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 4: even attacked Israeli activists from there. Actually, Eisencott goes to

440
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 4: this outpost and he has a meeting with the leaders

441
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 4: there and he basically signals his support to them, and

442
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 4: that is it's very clear what he's doing. He's saying, listen,

443
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 4: even if the government changes and you no longer to

444
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 4: have your Smotrich and you know, I'm going to have

445
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 4: your Bengavie or your nen Yahu, who are you know

446
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 4: giving you, you know, all this sort of vocal support.

447
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 4: Don't worry like I still got your back. I still

448
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 4: support you. And you know that's also consistent with the

449
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: fact that Eisenkott does not support a two state solution,

450
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: which which is, you know, I think speaks to the

451
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 4: just delusion that so many liberal Zionists in the United

452
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 4: States are living with, which is that there is some

453
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 4: other liberal version of Zionism of Israel that is actually

454
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 4: against settler of violence, that is actually you know, for

455
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 4: two states like that reality just simply does not exist

456
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: in Israel, in you know, the political reality that is

457
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 4: Israel today.

458
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: Well, Jasper, thank you so much for your reporting and

459
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: your bravery because you put yourself at great personal risk.

460
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: I know there's been a lot of personal costs that

461
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: everybody should go and subscribe to your substack, because you know,

462
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: I have understandably been focused on the genocide and Gaza,

463
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: but what is happening in the West Bank is horrifying

464
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: and extremely consequential. So thank you so much for keeping

465
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: your eye on that and helping to inform our audience.

466
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, Chris Allin Emily.

467
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 2: So, we have some very interesting ideas being pushed by

468
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: the nation's oligarchs as they see a rising populist revolt

469
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: against them and increasing ideas of wealth taxes and things

470
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: that they find completely unacceptable.

471
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 7: Let's put this up on the screen. This is the

472
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 7: Shopify ceo.

473
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: The headline here from Fortune is why did one hundred

474
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: and fifty four billion dollar ceo just endorse stripping most

475
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: Americans of voting rights and taking us back to nineteenth century.

476
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: I'll read you a little bit of some of mister

477
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: Tobias Lucky's ideas here.

478
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 7: He's CEO of Shopify.

479
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: His company commands a market cap of nearly one hundred

480
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 2: and fifty four billion dollars. He told his social media

481
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: followers this week that a tax tiered voting system, one

482
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 2: that with strip voting rights from anyone who pays no

483
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: income tax, which is many millions of Americans, would be

484
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: a quote good system. The exchange began with a provocation

485
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: from mister lucky. Pension recipients should have their financial futures

486
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: locked in and guaranteed, but in return would be reclassified

487
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: as dependents and lose the right to vote, the same

488
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: way miners can't vote. So if you're someone who relies

489
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: on social Security, your right to vote would be taken away. Next,

490
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: a reply from someone named Eric Thor, who claimed to

491
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: be a retired banking executive as well as armchair economist

492
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: and policy wonk love that type. Proposed to sliding scale

493
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: zero votes for anyone who pays no income tax, one

494
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: vote for those earning one to one hundred thousand dollars,

495
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: two votes for one hundred to two hundred, scaling up

496
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: in that pattern to a hard cap of five votes

497
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 2: for anyone earning five hundred thousand dollars or more. The

498
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: pitch was framed as fairness reward quote representation for those

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: who quote put the bill through taxation. That was the

500
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: good system that Lucky endorsed so emily. As if it

501
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: is not enough that these billionaires can flood the campaign

502
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 2: system with cash, you know, such that Elon Musk can

503
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 2: drop two hundred and fifty million dollars into the Trump campaign,

504
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: or Miriam Addelson or whoever you know, George Soros, or

505
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: whoever your favorite boogeyman is that these billionaires can drop

506
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: all of this money in through their own direct contributions

507
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: to dark money superpacks, through corporate contributions to dark money superpacks,

508
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 2: and have an outsize and almost exclusive influence on our

509
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 2: political system.

510
00:26:59,000 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 7: That is not enough.

511
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: We also need to directly strip votes from the pores

512
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 2: so that the rich can guarantee their position in society

513
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 2: permanently and not have to deal with the pesky working

514
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: class rabble or poor rabble having ideas about how the

515
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: country should be run.

516
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: It's astoundingly antidemocratic, and not in like a lower case

517
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: our republican way. But that's what the tech oligarchs really are.

518
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: At their cores. They believe that they should have a

519
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: concentration of power because they do genuinely know better. This

520
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: is not just in voting, this is also how they

521
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: think the economy should be designed. They think that they

522
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: can control a system that will be fair and just

523
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: and will create peace and utopia for everyone if you

524
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: would just give them the chance to completely dominate, which,

525
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: by the way, they basically already are. And they're suggesting

526
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: things like taking away the vote from people who don't

527
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: play the income tech. Like, while you're doing wild fantasies,

528
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: while you're enjoying your wild fantasies, why not you go

529
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: in a different direction and be like, we should just

530
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: get rid of the income text. Why don't you come

531
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: up with something that at least makes a modicum of

532
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: more sense. No, they won't do that because they actually

533
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: just want control. It's not about justice and fairness ultimately,

534
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. I mean, they may

535
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: have convinced themselves in some cases that they can be

536
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: the facilitators of greater justice, but what they really want

537
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: is controlled because they just think they're better. They don't

538
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: think other people should have they should have to say

539
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: in the system, because that's what comes up the works

540
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: of the system is people who don't know as much

541
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: as they do, who haven't worked as hard and innovated

542
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: and created and built. This is the language that they

543
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,239
Speaker 1: use around these ideas. Those people, they're the ones who

544
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: are requires you the problems. Just let us, the builders,

545
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: the superiors, handle it, and everyone else go about your lives.

546
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: We'll give you a universal basic income. You'll be fine,

547
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: Universal high income.

548
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, maybe maybe universal are feeling generous, Yeah, I

549
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: mean thinking that the problem in society is that the

550
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: rich don't have enough control. Like imagine holding that worldview

551
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: that is so incredibly insane. You know, there's a political

552
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: science experiment going back years now that found that the

553
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: views and concerns of ordinary people have zero impact on

554
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: their legislators, whereas the views of the wealthy have a

555
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: lot of impact on legislators. They're able to dump money

556
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: into campaigns, corporations are able to hire lobbyists. I mean,

557
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: we can see the impact in so many of these primaries.

558
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: Look at what happened to Thomas Massey because of all

559
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: of the multimillions of dollars that were dropped into a

560
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: primary against him, and you know, in order to lie

561
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: about him and convince Boomers in his district, he was

562
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 2: having a throuple with AOC and ilhan Omer. I mean,

563
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: I'm not even kidding. That's literally what happened in this race,

564
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: and you look at that landscape and say, yeah, the

565
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: problem is rich people need even more control this tiny,

566
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: tiny bit of a say that normal people have through

567
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: their vote.

568
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 7: We need to take that a way too.

569
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: And the reason that I highlighted is because Leslie is

570
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: one dude with a weird idea. But to your point, Emily,

571
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: these anti democratic ideas are completely commonplace and endemic within

572
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley at this point because they do they see

573
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: themselves as better then they think they should be the

574
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: ones who are making all of the decisions. They have

575
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: a completely and it's kind of always been there underneath

576
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: the surface in Silicon Valley. It was previously masked with

577
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: sort of like liberal identitarian values. Now the mask is

578
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: completely off. But when they thought about, you know, here,

579
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: we're going to use this technology, We're going to absent

580
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: ourselves from the democratic process. We're going to use this

581
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: technology to foment a sort of revolutionary our own revolution

582
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: in our favor that we get to have control over.

583
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: That has been the ethos in Silicon Valley among the

584
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: elites for a very long time. Now it has just

585
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: become more overt because the things that you can say

586
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 2: in you know, in the public space has been so

587
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: broadened to include just you know, putting out there that

588
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: you don't think we should have democracy anymore, we should

589
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: have network states, that we should have oligarchs who run

590
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: these things basically as kings. This is all very commonplace

591
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: ideas now with Silicon Valley, and obviously it's extremely dangerous.

592
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: Also think that there is probably a bit of a

593
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: panic right now because of a few developments. Number One,

594
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: we have covered a lot and will continue to cover

595
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: about to cover a little bit more. The massive public backlash,

596
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: which is truly bipartisan or cross partisan against data centers

597
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: and the abuses of the tech oligarchs. This is a

598
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: very unifying position. So I think they have to see

599
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: some of this pushback and start to get a little

600
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: bit nervous that the rabble are starting to rise up,

601
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: the rabble are starting to be discontented. You also have

602
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: them freaking out over this very modest wealth tax that

603
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: has been proposed in California and throwing a fit over that,

604
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: and I think again it's a sign of oh my god,

605
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: like they might have some other ideas about how things go.

606
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: They might actually do some to try to trim our

607
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: sales and then they also see the rise of democratic

608
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: socialists who take very seriously the need to fight against

609
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: the tech oligarchy and you write the ship and make

610
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: sure that ordinary people have a stake in our society.

611
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: I think they see all of these things as truly

612
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: like existential threats to their control, of their absolute control

613
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: over our country and over our politics.

614
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're especially disillusioned right now that they see

615
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: people on the right freaking out about data centers as well,

616
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 1: Like it's pretty much across the board. Even Republicans are

617
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: upset about data centers, and that is a surprise to

618
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: some of them, and that's why they've been trying to

619
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: go and overdrive in some of these communities and start

620
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: paying tons of money to convince the communities to let

621
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: them do whatever they want to do with the data centers.

622
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: And maybe some of that money is very much needed

623
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: in the school systems of the local infrastructure, but it's

624
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: becoming I mean pretty sure, Macina. We're talking before we

625
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: started the show about how some of these apartment buildings

626
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: you have to have a smartphone in order to get

627
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: into your apartment. And that's a silly example, but it's

628
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: an example of how anti democratic are economy is right now,

629
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: you basically have to have a smartphone then to live

630
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: in this apartment building. And if you want to have

631
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: a smartphone and live in this apartment building or many

632
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: apartment buildings in major cities, you have two choices. You

633
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: can do Apple or you could do Android. For the

634
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: most part, that puts an enormous amount of power in

635
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: the hands of two companies. And so it's an anti

636
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: democratic economy already. Obviously it's an anti democratic economy already.

637
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: And the point you were making about how it used

638
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: to be kind of masked, this mentality used to be

639
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: masked in Silicon Valley by progressive identitarianism or liberal identitarianism

640
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: is interesting because that's also what I was talking about

641
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: when we were just or I was riffing on, like

642
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: why not come up with an idea that's abolished the

643
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: income text. And I use that example specifically because the

644
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: mentality of Silicon Valley and like Web one point zero

645
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: and for some of Web two point zero, was this

646
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: like libertarian utopianism, that tech was taking us to a

647
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: better and freer place for the human condition. All of

648
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: these tech guys, some of them will still mask it

649
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: with that language. But all of these tech guys became

650
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: eager oligarchs, and they realized that their technology was creating

651
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: such concentrated power that I think, as we acknowledge, inevitably,

652
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: inevitably that concentrated power is going to end up in

653
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: the hands of a couple of people, and rather than

654
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: coming up with solutions that diffuse the power democratically, they're saying, well,

655
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: there's nothing we can do about it, so let the

656
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: smart people take the wheel. You will be fine.

657
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: Well, to me, there's not much difference between libertarianism and

658
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: a sort of corporate authoritarianism because the same libertarians always

659
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 2: have a I shouldn't say always, I'm sure there are

660
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: some exceptions. There are a lot of frequently frequently have

661
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 2: a blind spot when it comes to corporate power.

662
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 6: Right.

663
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: They're very tuned to potential abuses of government, and I

664
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: think serve a useful purpose there in terms of, you know,

665
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 2: checking potential government abuses, but then have a complete blind

666
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: spot when it comes to the mass amount of power

667
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: that let's say, an Elon Musk can accumulate, you know,

668
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: throwing two hundred and fifty million dollars into an election

669
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: and then being handed over the keys to the entire

670
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: federal government and making literal life or death decisions from

671
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: millions of people around the globe that just like doesn't

672
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: exist for them. So and if anything, they think that's

673
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: good because these are the winners. They're the ones who

674
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: deserve their place in society. So to me, it's no

675
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: surprise that you go from a sort of generic libertarianism

676
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: to an overt corporate authoritarianism, which is the ideology that

677
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: many of these people embrace. So you know, for me,

678
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: those things are entirely consistent. And speaking of Elon Musk,

679
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, there's no one who better represents the casual

680
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: psychopathy of this class of people than our nation's first

681
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: trillion earrow though SpaceX has taken a big old hit

682
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 2: since they're IPO, and I think Elon is no longer

683
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: for the moment a trillion are But don't worry, folks,

684
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: he's doing just He still has more wealth than the

685
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: human mind could ever begin to comprehend, let alone deploy.

686
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 2: In any case, Elon had this very interesting, contentious interview

687
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: with the with someone from the Economists. A lot of

688
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: the focus was on and understandably so was on like

689
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: his Islamophobia, and this whole debate about grooming gangs and

690
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: all of this.

691
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 7: Sort of stuff.

692
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: But I also paid very close attention to his discussion

693
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: of AI, and he's someone who has long thought there

694
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: is a pretty solid chance that AI is an existential

695
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: risk to literally destroy all of humanity. She asked him

696
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: about this, and just take a listen to how casual

697
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: he is about the prospect of Yeah, what I'm doing,

698
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: it might destroy all of humanity, But eh, what are

699
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: you going to do?

700
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: Do you think there's still a ten to twenty percent

701
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: chance that killer robots.

702
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 7: Mean the end of humanity? That's a high p doo,

703
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 7: As they say.

704
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 8: Well, in long run, we're all there, of course. So

705
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 8: I mean, so I think according to the standard model physics,

706
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 8: the end of the universe is a long, boring, sort

707
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 8: of thin gray soup of uh, gradual cooling. I mean,

708
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 8: that's sort of the heat death of the universe is called.

709
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 8: So if the heat death of the universe is in

710
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 8: fact the outcome for our reality, then it really is

711
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 8: all about the journey, because the destination is terrible.

712
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all going to die anyway, Emily, So whatever

713
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: if I'm the one that causes it, well, that'll be

714
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: more exciting than the long, slow death of the universe.

715
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: I suppose he's giving tal When Ross Douthitt was like,

716
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: was there a chance that you're the Antichrist? Answer, it

717
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: takes like that long pause and then it's like, no,

718
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: but you're right. It's what did you say? The casual psychopicy?

719
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, really like abouid crazy.

720
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: I mean, in the other part of his AI discussion,

721
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: he's basically like, well, look, originally I was concerned about this,

722
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: That's why I was doing open AI, and I wanted

723
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 2: to control it. Then I realized that all the things

724
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: I was doing were just leading to more accelerations. So

725
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: I just sort of threw my hands up and joined

726
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: the party. And I want you to think about that, Like,

727
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: this man is genuinely one of the unfortunately one of

728
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: the most powerful people on the entire planet.

729
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 7: Right when he.

730
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: Decided that we should destroy the entire USAID budget and

731
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: subject you know, kids dying of malaria to actual death

732
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: in Africa, he was able to figure out how to

733
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: do that. You're not going to use any of that

734
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: influence in power, And I see no evidence that he's

735
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: used any of his influence in power at the Trump

736
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: administration to try to have some sort of you know,

737
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: global cooperation agreement with regard to AI development, to put

738
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: some sort of testing our guardrail system in place, to

739
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: try to at the very least slow down and manage

740
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: the rollout of this incredibly powerful technology. I see zero

741
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: evidence that any of his immense lofealth and power with

742
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 2: the Trump administration specifically has been spent in that direction. Instead,

743
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 2: is just like, well, the first thing I tried didn't

744
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: work out, so I guess I'm just going to join

745
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: the race and perhaps myself be the person who destroys

746
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: all of humanity. This is These are the people who

747
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: right now are in control. Like, you don't need to

748
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: take away our votes, they already are running the show,

749
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: but you want to make sure, you want to guarantee

750
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: that the Elon Musk of the world can have infinite

751
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: power forever and all of their completely insane and bananas ideas,

752
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: and they're you know, frankly like death cult that they're

753
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: participating in to try to destroy this planet and make

754
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: sure that they and you know a few people that

755
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: they see as worthy can can flee and escape to

756
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 2: Mars or whatever their crazy plan of the day is.

757
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's again one of those people who started

758
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: with this this like web one point zero idealism and

759
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: to your point, like open ai going from nonprofit like

760
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: he fought that. But here we are twenty twenty six.

761
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: The Starlink influence over the conflicts in Israel and Ukraine

762
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: is a great example of concentrated power, like Elon Musk

763
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: in his hands. In his hands, he had the power

764
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: to have dramatic influence over both those words because the

765
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: US government had to turn to him or Ukrainian government,

766
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: Israeli government had to turn to him on starlink, and

767
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: that's a big deal for a drone based war essentially,

768
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: like looking at Ukraine where that war ended up going.

769
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: He's massively, massively powerful and right now, I mean we're

770
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: not talking about the future, we're talking about literally right now, Crystal.

771
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: The amount of power that's in his hands is astounding

772
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: and nobody is doing anything about it. So it's not

773
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: surprising that you have Democrats and Republicans across polling upset

774
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: about data centers. It's not just that they're mad about

775
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: data centers on the merits, it's a proxy issue too,

776
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: for the concentration of power and the control of the

777
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: economy and the control of the culture and the world.

778
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: It's a great segue to some new polling, some new

779
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: evidence of just how disgusted Americans are with their lack

780
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: of democratic control, specifically around data centers. So a wild

781
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: new infographic shows exactly how Francesca Hang has taken the

782
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: lead in the Wisconsin Democratic gubernatorial primary. We had her

783
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: on the show yesterday. She is a DSA aligned candidate who,

784
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 2: according to the pollings, is kind of running away with

785
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 2: this thing. At this point, put this image up of

786
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: the screen. So this is a They use the state

787
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: of Wisconsin here to fill in as a sort of

788
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: word cloud what voters say they are voting based on.

789
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: And this is specifically Democratic voters in the Democratic primary

790
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: and Emily. The two things that jump out are healthcare

791
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: and data centers. Just below that is affordability, then economy,

792
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: then Trump, then I would say rights, and after that

793
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: every electability is a little bit smaller after to that,

794
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: but you know, and education. But the big one that

795
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: really stands out here is data centers. And in a previous,

796
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: earlier debate there was a debate last night, but this

797
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 2: is from an earlier debate in this race, the candidates

798
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: for the Democratic nomination were all asked if they would

799
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: support a one year moratorium on data center construction, and

800
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: Francesca Hang was the only person who raised her hand

801
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: and said that she would.

802
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 7: Let's take a look at that. Do you support a.

803
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 4: One year or longer moratorium on data center construction in Wisconsin?

804
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 6: Right?

805
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 7: Thank you.

806
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: We talked to Francesca some about this yesterday. This has

807
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 2: really been a centerpiece of her campaign, Emily, and I

808
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: bet a number of those candidates would like to go

809
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: back and have that have a redo on how they

810
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: answered that question.

811
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: I mean, that's Kathy Hokeel just did the one year

812
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: moratorium and none of these other Wisconsin Democrats. Wisconsin has

813
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: been actually a pretty hot spot of this debate. The

814
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: man twawk minute guy was leading the charge against like

815
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: building data centers in the southeastern part of the state.

816
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: Like this is actually it has rallied people in Wisconsin.

817
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: So to be that either bought and paid for or

818
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: ignorant of where people stand on this issue is truly ridiculous.

819
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: Like that, there's just no excuse for that at this

820
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: point politically now, I doubt that they have like really

821
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: great arguments on the merit against the one year moratoriums.

822
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: You know, people can make those arguments, but I doubt

823
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. It seems to me like they're

824
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: just completely out of touch with their own voters because

825
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: they're all cynical politicians, or politicians are by nature cynical.

826
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: No offense to the politicians out there who watch breaking points.

827
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are many of you, but you're making

828
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: cynical political calculations in a gubernatorial election. So that to

829
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: look at her being the only one saying she would

830
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: support a one year moratorium in in a world where

831
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: Kathy Hokeel just did that because she's seen this up

832
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: close in her own state, amazing to see that.

833
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: I have to give some credit to Kathy Hokele, not

834
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: only on this but on other issues. She has read

835
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: the polls, she sees where the wind is blowing, and

836
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 2: she has proven herself to be a very adept politician

837
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: in terms of moving to where the public is, recognizing

838
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: the power of Zorn's movement, the energy there, repositioning herself

839
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: to be less adversarial. And she did that early, you know,

840
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you remember, she appeared at

841
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: a rally for him in advance of his, you know,

842
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: his election battle against Cuomo in the general election. So

843
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: she has proven to be relatively nimble and her finger

844
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: much more on the pulse than a lot of other

845
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: Democratic politicians who are out there. Let's put F two

846
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: up on the screen. You can see what the fallout

847
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: is here for the rest of Francesca Hong's competitors.

848
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 7: This is pretty wild.

849
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: This is a state Navigate poll for the Wisconsin governor

850
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 2: Democratic primary, and Francesca Hong now is at forty four percent,

851
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: nearing a majority. David Crowley at fifteen, Mendela Barnes at fourteen,

852
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 2: and the other competitors you know, down below five percent.

853
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: Now the undecided is just at thirteen percent. So in

854
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: prior polls, Emily, there were and this is what Francesca

855
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: actually told us yesterday, and prior polls, the undecided number

856
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: was really quite large. And I'm sure her competitors, both

857
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: David Crowley and Mendela Barnes, were hoping that those undecideds

858
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: were going to hear about Francesca Hong and how radical

859
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: she was, and they were going to flip to them

860
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: and that would help them make up the gap. Well,

861
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: people are now deciding their votes, and they're overwhelmingly according

862
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: to this poll anyway, going for Francesca Hong, and I

863
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: think it does come back to something and you and

864
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: I briefly discussed yesterday, which is, if you are a

865
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: DSA aligned candidate, if you have you know that worldview

866
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: more or less, you have a worldview, you're not afraid

867
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: to take a stand and say, yeah, I support a

868
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: one year moratorium on data centers. That's easy for you

869
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 2: all day long if you're one of these centrist candidates

870
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: who's trying to sort of pick your spots and playcate

871
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: donors and use the standard talking points and avoid really

872
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: taking a stand on anything that is just not cutting it.

873
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: In a Democratic primary this year, voters know where they

874
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 2: stand and they want to know that their political representation

875
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: stands alongside of them. So the fact that she's been

876
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 2: able to be very clear on a host of issues

877
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 2: that are truly, truly centrally important to Democratic voters, I

878
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: think has set her apart and she's running away with it.

879
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: Keep in mind, she's a state rep. Okay, probably the

880
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: vast majority of people in the state have never heard

881
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: of her until very recently. Many of them still haven't

882
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: heard of her up to this point. Mintel Barnes is

883
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 2: the lieutenant governor, so he's someone who has statewide name

884
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: recognition and it doesn't matter. It reminds very much of

885
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: Graham Platner coming out of nowhere to just wipe the

886
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: floor with Janet Mills, who was the sitting governor of

887
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: the state, because people saw what he had to say

888
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 2: and his very clear vision and said that's the view

889
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: that I share that view, and I want my political

890
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: representation to hold that view as well.

891
00:46:59,440 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

892
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if we can put the numbers back

893
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: up on the screen, but look at this math. This

894
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: shows that there's no South Carolina Cliburn option here in Wisconsin,

895
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: meaning the plot to you totally undermine Bernie Sanders. So

896
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: Hong is at forty four percent and don't Know is

897
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: at thirteen percent. So what you would need is everyone

898
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: except for Crowley or Barnes, one of them to drop out,

899
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: and then you would need to win most of those

900
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: undecided voters over. If this poll is accurate, and it

901
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: does track with some other polling that shows her with

902
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: a pretty significant lead. So it's looking like the elections

903
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: in about two weeks, it's looking like she's running away

904
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 1: with this and there is no option to consolidate. Actually,

905
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: Michigan is a good example. There's no McMorrow dropout option

906
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: on the table here to try and boost Crowley or

907
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: Barns again, at least if this pole is tracking with

908
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: their internals, which when you have a race that looks

909
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: like this, you have so many different candidates, it's a

910
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: state based primary, it's pulling can be difficult, but this

911
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: looks like it's hers to lose at this point. Clearly

912
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: hers to lose at this point. And your point about

913
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: moral clarity and the politics of moral clarity right now,

914
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: when you have people who are just fed up with

915
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: the system. Donald Trump proved this in twenty sixteen. You

916
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: had all these other candidates saying that we're going to

917
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: tinker around the edges of the system, and you didn't

918
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,479
Speaker 1: really know where they stood on Irock and Afghanistan. Jeb

919
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: Bush was running. So what would a Jeb Bush foreign

920
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: policy look like versus a George Bush foreign policy? Trump

921
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: comes out and he's like, Nope, we're done. No new wars,

922
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: no new dumb wars, like he said, different variations of it.

923
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: He says we're building a wall. That was totally different

924
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: than what Rubio was offering. It was totally different even

925
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: than what Ted Cruz was offering, and it was He's

926
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: gone back on no new wars. That's a huge problem

927
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: for him and whoever inherits his movement. And part of

928
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: why it feels like such a betrayal to people is

929
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: that there was this for him sense of like moral clarity.

930
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: As funny as that sounds to people, it's compared to

931
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: the others, it's compared to the establishment. It comes across

932
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: as like a clear sense of direction because it is

933
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: an indictment of the establishment, and that is very attractive

934
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: to voters right now. It's what populists are doing well

935
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 1: across the board, on the left and on the right.

936
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: And if you're not picking up on that, like if

937
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: you're not even Kathy Hokeling right now, you're pretty far behind.

938
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 2: And one thing that is really different here from the

939
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: Trump dynamic is Trump is very singular. To use the

940
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: word that you used earlier, He is very singular, and

941
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 2: he doesn't actually have a coherent worldview. He says a

942
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: forceful view. Depending on the day, it can be in

943
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: any number of directions. Whereas what we're seeing now is

944
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: truly a sort of coherent movement ideology that is succeeding

945
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: in a lot of variety of places across the country.

946
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: So you can no longer just say a, well, Zorn's

947
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: a kind of a one off because he's so talented

948
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: and he's so charismatic, and it's New York City. And

949
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: then you go, okay, well, we have these other candidates

950
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: in New York City are asso saying themselves with soron

951
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 2: and they're all winning. Okay, And by the way, it's

952
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: not just New York City. Let's take a look at

953
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: Colorado and Mi lak Kiros being able to unseed a

954
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: relatively progressive except on Israel incumbent there in Diana. To

955
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 2: get okay, let's take a look at Maine and even

956
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: with Graham Plattner being pushed aside because of an a

957
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: credible sexual assault allegation, the guy who replaced him and

958
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: one overwhelmingly Troy Jackson, he was back by DSA in

959
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: his gubernatorial candidacy and is a long time Bernie Sanders

960
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 2: aligned candidate.

961
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 7: Then you take a look at the Midwest.

962
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 2: Not only do you have Francesca hang in Wisconsin, appearing

963
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: to run away with it. You have another heated battle

964
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: between Peggy Flanagan and Angie Craig, Angie Craig being the

965
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 2: establishment pick in Minnesota. It's looking very much like Peggy

966
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: Flanagan is going to be able to win that battle.

967
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: And then put F six up on the screen. Abdul

968
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: al sayah, this is really a marquee race. This is

969
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: coming down to the wire next week. This is F

970
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 2: six guys. New Pole has him up by ten points

971
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: here on Hailey Steve Vans and gaining ground by the way.

972
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 2: And when you push the what they call leaners, so

973
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 2: people who aren't sure and you say, okay, but if

974
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: you had to pick right now, who would you pick?

975
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: These up by double digits, He's up by eleven points

976
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: in that scenario, forty eight percent to thirty seven percent.

977
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: He has a much higher favorability than Haley Stevens does

978
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: in this poll. And this is in spite of the

979
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: fact that Apak has really wanted to make an example

980
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: of Abdul. You know, the mailboxes have been flooded with

981
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 2: these mailers, making it seem like Hayley Stevens was endorsed

982
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: by Barack Obama, even though she wasn't smearing Abdullah Siad

983
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 2: as some sort of a secret sexist. The airwaves are

984
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 2: absolutely blanketed. And yet in spite of that, he still

985
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 2: has the edge here. I mean, that is absolutely extraordinary

986
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: that in the face of that wave of money that

987
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: would have undoubtedly been successful in the past, was successful

988
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: in the past against Jabal Bowman, was successful against Corey Bush.

989
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: This time around, Democratic based primary voters in the state

990
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 2: of Michigan, a key swing state with a varied you know, rural, urban,

991
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: all sorts of demographics, racist, religions of the whole gamut

992
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: in Michigan, they are not buying it.

993
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: And if you look at that pole, it also had

994
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: undecided at fourteen percent. And so that's with a week, yeah,

995
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: less than a week now to go before election day,

996
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: and the outsai ED momentum is going or the momentum

997
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 1: I should say, is going with ELSA ED. So that's

998
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: really really bad news for Haley. Stevens Tore potentially looking

999
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: at in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, the upper Midwest primary

1000
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 1: victories by the DSA aligned candidates like across the board.

1001
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: So as soon as those primaries are wrapped, up in

1002
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, the table is going to

1003
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: be set, in all likelihood for some real battles with

1004
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: DSA aligned candidates for the populist left going forward. I mean,

1005
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: that's if you're here in Washington at the DNC, you're

1006
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: looking at those numbers and thank you to yourself. I

1007
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: was going to say something that I should not say,

1008
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: but that is why you're thinking of something. You're like,

1009
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is I was just reminded there's

1010
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: this great Twitter account that's ten years ago today, a

1011
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: post pictures from ten years ago today. Oh yeah, and

1012
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: it reminded me of my favorite picture from the twenty

1013
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: sixteen DNC, which is Susan Sarandon shaking her head watching

1014
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: what's happening on the floor, just completely seething, Which if

1015
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: you were a Democrat in twenty sixteen, many people were

1016
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: completely seething watching this coronation of Hillary Clinton. Twenty twenty

1017
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 1: six Maybe people just had to be patient, Crystal, because

1018
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: this is a route. It's shaped up to be a

1019
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: total route. In twenty twenty.

1020
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 2: Six the establishment is thoroughly discredited. Their strongest weapon against

1021
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: the left was on electability. Oh and also this like

1022
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: weird identity racial resentment politics that they're still trying to use.

1023
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: And I think it's just been the electability piece has

1024
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 2: just been so thoroughly discredited. I think the identity racial

1025
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 2: resentment piece has been fairly discredited as well. It doesn't

1026
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: seem to be landing in the same way it did

1027
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: when Hillary Clinton was using this against Bernie Sanders back

1028
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: in twenty six. How are you going to say, oh,

1029
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: we can tell you who's electable. Donald Trump's in the

1030
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 2: White House. You told us, you know what you were doing.

1031
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: This man is back here again. You were not able

1032
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: to vanquish him. We've been doing it your way. We

1033
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: don't believe you anymore.

1034
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 7: And there's a new.

1035
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: Media ecosystem that is able to break through. And it's

1036
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: not just you know, like lefty, lefty shows, but you know,

1037
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: Midas Touch is very progressive and a lot of people

1038
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: who used to be MSNBC watchers are now like Midas

1039
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: Touch watchers, and they're very favorable towards candidates like Bernie Sanders, candidates.

1040
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 7: Like abdulah sayads. So it is.

1041
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 2: It is a very new dynamic in the Democratic Party.

1042
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: Question now is how much that translates into the general election,

1043
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 2: and I did want to put this F three up

1044
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: on the screen. This is the white whale for Democrats

1045
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: winning trying to win Texas. You've got Taller Rico here

1046
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 2: in a new poll by five points. What's interesting is

1047
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 2: that both he and Ken Paxton lost a little bit

1048
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: of ground from the last time. But this is Texas

1049
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: Public Opinion Research did a survey in the field, so

1050
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 2: in any case, taller Ico up five in this. Not

1051
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: sure what the margin of error here is, but this

1052
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 2: would be probably just outside of the margin of error.

1053
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:10,479
Speaker 7: Could put F.

1054
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: Four up on the screen. I'm not sure that I

1055
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 2: fully buy this because this just seems like too much

1056
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 2: of a shift. But according to this polster, there has

1057
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: been a mass shift of Latino voters away from Paxton,

1058
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 2: who in May, just months ago, was leading among Latino

1059
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 2: voters in Texas by four points.

1060
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 6: Too.

1061
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: Tall Rico is now winning by forty six points. Like

1062
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 2: I said, I'm a little bit skeptical that there have

1063
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 2: been that many minds change, but surely that represents some

1064
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 2: sort of a shift towards tall Rico. And then, you know,

1065
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: we were talking yesterday. I don't remember if this was

1066
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 2: on camera or out off camera about whether or not

1067
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: whether or not Dems had a shot in Texas, and

1068
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 2: you were saying you thought Beato had a little bit

1069
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 2: more juice. It is interesting if you compare the poles.

1070
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: We can put F four B up on the screen

1071
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: in terms of the polling, which we all know to

1072
00:55:58,160 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 2: take with a lot of grains assaults at this point,

1073
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 2: At this point in twenty eighteen, according to the average

1074
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: of four poles, Ted Cruz was up on Beto by

1075
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,479
Speaker 2: six points. You know, it was the kind of poles

1076
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: that people were looking at and go, okay, well, maybe

1077
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: you got a shop that Ted Cruz still has an edge.

1078
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: Now in an average of five polls, you've got tall

1079
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: Rico actually with a narrow margin over Ken Paxton. So,

1080
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 2: like I said, grains of salt for pulling all around.

1081
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: But that did kind of catch my attention here just

1082
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 2: because it was different from what I recalled. You know,

1083
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: in my mind, the polls were a little bit different

1084
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: for Beto at this point in the race. But you know,

1085
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 2: he was not in any sort of consistent way showing

1086
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: he was in a tie or even in a lead,

1087
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: and he ended up coming extraordinarily close to Ted Cruz.

1088
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: So I don't know, em what do you think.

1089
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: Well, believe it or not. I think that Ken Paxon

1090
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,919
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six is a worse candidate than Ten

1091
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: Cruz in twenty eighteen.

1092
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 7: The extraordinary accomplishment for him, by the way, on that.

1093
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: Truly, truly, yes, So I actually just think Ken Paxson

1094
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: is such a flawed and difficult candidate for Republicans to

1095
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,439
Speaker 1: sell in this race that it wouldn't surprise me if

1096
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: Tylerico gets a boost because of that, in a way

1097
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: that like Beto versus Cruise, like Ted CRUs is Ted Cruz.

1098
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: But at least in twenty eighteen, it wasn't really until

1099
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 1: after the twenty eighteen election that he started becoming much

1100
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: more aligned with the McConnell wing of the Republican Party,

1101
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: much closer to Senate leadership. It was after that election

1102
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: that Ted Cruz started making that transition. Beforehand, he was

1103
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: still kind of hit a little bit of his Tea

1104
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: Party juice left in him, So there was something that

1105
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: he could make a slightly more coherent kind of populist

1106
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: right case in a way that he couldn't now. And

1107
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: Ken Paxton tries to make a populist right case, but

1108
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: he's Ken Paxton like he just think Ted Cruz has

1109
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: won elections in Texas, so people can decide how they

1110
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: feel about Ted Cruz, Like I'm sure most of our

1111
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: viewers don't like Ted Cruz. But for a while he

1112
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: was really popular with conservative voters. He was seen as

1113
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: somebody who was deeply anti establishment, like this is why

1114
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: he was the second to Trump in twenty sixteen. Is

1115
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: he was seen as somebody who was both this like

1116
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: kind of conservative movement figure and very deeply opposed to

1117
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: the GOP establishment, which was the combination that people were

1118
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: looking for, or some people were looking for back in

1119
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. So it is I think Paxson is just

1120
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: going to run behind Cruz probably. I'm looking at the

1121
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: RCP average in this race. Paxon is only a zero

1122
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: point six plus point six forty five point two in

1123
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: the RCP average is where he is. Tallerico's at forty

1124
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: four point six. The latest New York Times SIENA poll

1125
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: from the end of June had them in a dead heat,

1126
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: just an absolute tie, at forty seven percent of the electorate.

1127
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see how Tallarico runs compared

1128
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: with the rest of the country because obviously Dems had

1129
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: a huge advantage in the generic congressional ballot in twenty eighteen,

1130
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: bigger than Dems have at this point in the cycle

1131
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: right now. But is Tallarico going to outrun Dems around

1132
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: the country in Texas. I don't think he's going to. Honestly,

1133
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to win the race. It

1134
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: could happen, of course, I don't think he's going to.

1135
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: I think it's still Texas. But I do think Ohio,

1136
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: North Carolina, those potentially main although I don't think it's

1137
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: going to be nearly as close as it probably would

1138
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: have been. Those are going to be Nebraska, dan Osburn

1139
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: and Nebraska. I think those are going to be more

1140
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: nail biders than Republicans realize right now. And obviously they

1141
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: have a race on their hands in Texas, they're going

1142
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: to have to spend a ton of money on it.

1143
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: Last thing I wanted to say, Crystal, just as we're

1144
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: talking about twenty eighteen, is if we could put that

1145
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: Wisconsin map up on the screen again. This is f one.

1146
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: Look at how small you pointed this out. Look at

1147
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: how small Trump is compared to healthcare data centers affordability

1148
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: that in twenty eighteen, polling still found something similar. But

1149
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: Democrats on the campaign trail, they were talking about healthcare

1150
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: and they were talking about Trump and Russia. The twenty

1151
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: eighteen election was run by Democrats on healthcare mostly, but

1152
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: a lot of it was this cultural signaling against Trump,

1153
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: and that is I think the big difference between probably

1154
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Beto at his point when he ran and a lot

1155
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen candidates and right now what you're seeing

1156
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: from Democrats is that you don't hear the constant Trump

1157
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: anti Trump virtue signaling. There's more focus on, i think,

1158
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: the policy.

1159
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: And that makes it much harder for establishment Democrats who

1160
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 2: want to confuse voters about who they are and the

1161
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 2: way that they'll fight, etc. Because it's very easy. I mean,

1162
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 2: this is Haley Stevens. She's got her yard signs that

1163
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: safe take it to them, right, And they want to

1164
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 2: be able to run campaigns that are just like generic,

1165
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to fight Trump, what does that mean?

1166
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 7: And voters aren't having it.

1167
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 2: They have very specific policy concerns and they want to

1168
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 2: hear those clearly expressed and reflected in their political leaders.

1169
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: I do think that is an extraordinary change. And the

1170
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 2: last comment I'll make about the Tennis vote, the Tennis vote,

1171
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: the Texas vote is that you're right about Ted Cruz

1172
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: being a stronger candidate because he also has been i

1173
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: think still able to kind of straddle the divide in

1174
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 2: the Republican Party between which is really evident in Texas,

1175
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: between the like Trump Mega types and the in Texas

1176
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 2: like the Bush wing of the party. And John Cornyn,

1177
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: who Paxton was able to be, was much more emblematic

1178
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: of that Bush wing of the Republican Party that really

1179
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 2: kind of hates the Ken Paxton's of the world. I mean,

1180
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 2: this is the wing of the party that literally impeached

1181
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: him in the House in Texas.

1182
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: That they hate him more than John Cornon hates Paxton

1183
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: more than he hates Mark Warner.

1184
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 7: Right, Yes, absolutely the case.

1185
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: And Paxton is a genuinely odious criminal figure, like corrupt,

1186
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: personally odious, like there is so much there with him.

1187
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 7: And so you also have a possibility of there's.

1188
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 2: A good number of voters for Cornin who said I'm

1189
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 2: not voting for Ken Paxton. That is another issue for

1190
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 2: Republicans here and Democrats obviously very unified behind Talla Rico.

1191
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 2: There is a lot of excitement for him from the

1192
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 2: people I know in Texas on the ground, among the

1193
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 2: Democratic base. I think Latinos are the swing demographic in

1194
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: the state to watch. You know, are they gonna stay

1195
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 2: more with Republicans or are they you know, disgusted with

1196
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: the economic decline, with the war, with some of the

1197
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, absolute cruelty with regard to the deportation efforts.

1198
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 2: Does that swing them more towards a A James Talerico.

1199
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1200
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 7: It's gonna be an interesting one.

1201
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where I think some of the culture work

1202
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: stuff is going to the Hispanic voting block. I think

1203
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: that's going to be a big deal. Uh, Tylerico's faith

1204
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: is gonna He's gonna play it up and Republicans are

1205
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: going to attack it in different ways. So definitely they

1206
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: have a race on their hands, no question about it.

1207
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to spend a ton of money. The

1208
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: polling is like obvious on that point. So man, what

1209
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: a cycle. We're excited to keep covering it here.

1210
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 2: Crystal absolutely all right, Well that does it for us

1211
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: here today. Tomorrow I will be in again with Sager,

1212
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 2: so look forward to that. And Emily and I are

1213
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 2: going to jump onto an Ama Live now. If you

1214
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 2: want to participate in those, become a premium subscriber at

1215
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 2: Breakingpoints dot com.

1216
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 7: We'll see you guys soon.

1217
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 4: You wanted to be putt