Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined with our super producer,
Speaker 3: Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 3: You are here that makes this the stuff they don't
Speaker 3: want you to know, and we're coming to you amid
Speaker 3: some incredibly fast moving, fast paced, chaotic times. And one
Speaker 3: thing that we talk about a lot offline is that
Speaker 3: it can be easy to forget amid all this pandemonium
Speaker 3: that the world of the past is still chock full
Speaker 3: of strange, inexplicable things. Like I think we all, Matt,
Speaker 3: have had this assumption on some base level that because
Speaker 3: something happened long ago, we somehow figured out the answers
Speaker 3: to what happened and why is a civilization. But that's
Speaker 3: not entirely the case.
Speaker 2: Oh no especially, I think, in my opinion, at least
Speaker 2: as satellite technology has increased exponentially, as the ability to
Speaker 2: image things from super far away, to see through water
Speaker 2: right to like the depths of the ocean. All of
Speaker 2: these things. You feel like, oh, we've discovered pretty much
Speaker 2: everything now, and we understand because there are enough humans
Speaker 2: who've been around working long enough, looking at history and
Speaker 2: archaeology and things like that, we know things. We know
Speaker 2: it all.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And it's a dangerous assumption to make because
Speaker 3: it could not be further from the truth. Human civilization
Speaker 3: does not know most things. If you were just thinking
Speaker 3: about all of the things, human civilization does not know
Speaker 3: most of them. And that's not a ding. Everybody's been
Speaker 3: working hard.
Speaker 2: It feels like a ding. Man. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Thousands of years, you know, people know more than they
Speaker 3: did earlier. I guess you could say that we've lost
Speaker 3: technology in cities along the way. And if you travel
Speaker 3: all the way out to Micronesia, a place that we
Speaker 3: have not visited, you will find a ruined city that
Speaker 3: looks straight out of an HP Lovecraft story and indeed
Speaker 3: probably inspired a lot of conspiratorial writing and a lot
Speaker 3: of fiction. It's a place called nan Madul, And tonight
Speaker 3: we're gonna ask what happened to this place? What is it?
Speaker 3: To begin with? Why is it abandoned today? And we
Speaker 3: were also speaking briefly off air here one of the
Speaker 3: most important things we have to give at the top
Speaker 3: is a pronunciation disclaimer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, we're trying our hardest. We're looking at websites that,
Speaker 2: you know, give you the pronunciation, and then we're trying
Speaker 2: to get those. Some of them we just can't find that,
Speaker 2: so we're going to do our best.
Speaker 3: I watched some in depth depictions of the oral history
Speaker 3: of this area Micronesia, with people speaking in native languages,
Speaker 3: and along the way I learned that several of the
Speaker 3: things we're going to talk about have multiple names, and
Speaker 3: each of those multiple names may have multiple pronunciations. So,
Speaker 3: like Matt said, we're doing our best. Bear with us.
Speaker 3: We are going to spell out things, yes, because that'll
Speaker 3: probably be easier for you to search than hearing us,
Speaker 3: you know, do linguistic Parker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, ok, yeah, Well, we'll be right back and we'll
Speaker 2: get to them pronunciations.
Speaker 3: Here are the facts Micronesia stunning place or I guess
Speaker 3: we should say a stunning series of places.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, A whole bunch of places that exist on
Speaker 2: vast ocean expanses, very small islands, some a lot larger
Speaker 2: than the others, at least by comparison. Some islets, a
Speaker 2: lot of atolls, and it's amazing stuff. It's mostly volcanic
Speaker 2: activity that formed these places over a long period of time.
Speaker 2: But the coolest thing about this area is that there
Speaker 2: are a lot of humans that live on these again
Speaker 2: fairly small places at least when you look at the
Speaker 2: continents that they're not that terribly far from Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just the scale of this can
Speaker 3: be difficult for a lot of us to imagine if
Speaker 3: you haven't been in that part of the world. World.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of these islands also are uninhabited,
Speaker 3: or they're only seasonally inhabited. There's a lot out there,
Speaker 3: a lot of remote stuff, and it's a place that
Speaker 3: this part of the world here kind of north and
Speaker 3: northeast of Australia, is a place that a lot of
Speaker 3: us have wanted to visit. It's just incredibly difficult to
Speaker 3: get there from the United States.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking hopping on planes. You were just describing
Speaker 2: Ben our old buddy Scott from car stuff, and can
Speaker 2: you just explain a little bit of that, like the
Speaker 2: number of things you have to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so our pal, our comrade Scott Benjamin, very interesting,
Speaker 3: brilliant guy, worked with us on many shows, including car stuff,
Speaker 3: and he and his wife would fly out to Bora Bora,
Speaker 3: to an island somewhere in that area. So they would
Speaker 3: have to take a flight from the US. They would
Speaker 3: land one place. I think they had to fly to
Speaker 3: another place after that, and then the planes that they
Speaker 3: were on just kept getting smaller and smaller until you're
Speaker 3: on a puddle jumper and then you have to get
Speaker 3: on the boat and the boat takes you to the
Speaker 3: actual island. He says he has a great time where
Speaker 3: he goes, but I don't know if that's like two
Speaker 3: days to get there or what his deal is. But
Speaker 3: we're saying that to show you the sense of scale.
Speaker 3: And like you said, it's a stunningly diverse region. People
Speaker 3: have been living in this area for more than four
Speaker 3: thousand years, and we still as a civilization have a
Speaker 3: lot to learn about these earlier cultures because not all
Speaker 3: you see this everywhere, not all had written records. You know,
Speaker 3: a lot of the way of preserving history, the methods
Speaker 3: were often oral history, folklore, storytelling, and we do know
Speaker 3: that not too too long ago, there was a mighty
Speaker 3: kingdom governing this area. And this is something that you
Speaker 3: and I had talked about briefly when we're snooping around
Speaker 3: for cool episodes. And I don't think correct me if
Speaker 3: I'm wrong here. I don't think either of us had
Speaker 3: actually heard of this place. I had not.
Speaker 2: I never heard of modell Modal. Nan Modole is how
Speaker 2: you'd say it. Maybe how did you find it?
Speaker 3: This is where we have to spell it NA in
Speaker 3: space M A D O L. I can't remember, Man,
Speaker 3: I just read too many weird things. I wish that
Speaker 3: I had learned about it because somebody visited nan Modal
Speaker 3: And maybe if you like, if you have and you're
Speaker 3: with us listening along tonight, please please contact us right
Speaker 3: to us immediately, give us any pictures, any links. We
Speaker 3: would love to learn more because nan Modll has this
Speaker 3: hidden history about it. Oh my gosh, I'm doing that
Speaker 3: eight ancient alien's hands. That's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: But one other thing that was of interest to me, Matt,
Speaker 3: and I think to both of us is Nan Madal
Speaker 3: is adjacent to the eastern side of an island called
Speaker 3: Pong Bay, not Pompei, not the Mediterranean disaster site of
Speaker 3: a volcanic explosion. But I just kept thinking about that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Well, so if you're looking at it from
Speaker 2: a map, Pombay which is spelled p o hn Pei
Speaker 2: if you want to look it up. If you look
Speaker 2: at it from above, it appears to be in a
Speaker 2: tall so you've got that kind of ring around it,
Speaker 2: and then an island that has a big old volcano
Speaker 2: or you know what was once a volcano at the
Speaker 2: center of it. And then if you go down it's
Speaker 2: not to the south, it is to the eastern side,
Speaker 2: but southeast you will find a whole other separate island
Speaker 2: that has this place that we are going to. I
Speaker 2: didn't know it was a separate island. It does not
Speaker 2: look like it at all. It's called Timwin Island. It's
Speaker 2: super tiny, and nem Doll is on the eastern side
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And the and the crazy thing about this site it
Speaker 3: is a city, or it was at one point, and
Speaker 3: it's built in this lagoon, and it's it's based upon
Speaker 3: small man made islands, artificial islands, which sounds like some
Speaker 3: pretty high science, you know, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: For sure. And Ben, let's talk about what this thing
Speaker 2: is because it's not an island in itself. It is
Speaker 2: a structure series of structures that were built quite a
Speaker 2: while ago, and they if you look at pictures of
Speaker 2: them online, maybe we could just describe what it is.
Speaker 2: It looks like huge flat stone slabs that are then
Speaker 2: sandwiched like one on top of the other, and then
Speaker 2: in between they're much smaller stones that kind of I
Speaker 2: would say, like even out or provide support for the
Speaker 2: shape of the stone that either is below it or
Speaker 2: above it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're crisscrossing and a lot of these stones are
Speaker 3: columns essentially that have been laid out, you know, vertically
Speaker 3: and horizontally to build these slabs. And again, the thing
Speaker 3: I keep being amazed by is the idea of man
Speaker 3: made islands, of just making an island. For me, that
Speaker 3: always seems and I know people have done it in
Speaker 3: the Middle East as well, quite recently, but it always
Speaker 3: seems like a herculean feet a godlike effort, because.
Speaker 2: Especially when you consider when it was done.
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, we know that for thousands of years people
Speaker 3: had been living in the area, but they had also
Speaker 3: been building in the area, which we'll we'll get to.
Speaker 3: There was a mighty kingdom based in nan Medal for
Speaker 3: at least a thousand years more most likely, and they
Speaker 3: were called the Sauduleure dynasty sau d e l e
Speaker 3: u R. And when Europeans got to this part of
Speaker 3: the world, they were stunned by this place too. The
Speaker 3: original name for it was sound non Leng, which roughly
Speaker 3: translates to reef of heaven. And because it's you know,
Speaker 3: build on lagoon, they use a lot of coral material,
Speaker 3: like you were saying, to fill in between the stones.
Speaker 3: And sometimes people will call it the venice of the Pacific,
Speaker 3: which makes a lot of sense when you see all
Speaker 3: the canals that crisscross the area. But I've got a
Speaker 3: question for you, man, how often do places call themselves
Speaker 3: the eighth Wonder of the world, Like.
Speaker 2: Just boast about it and just give them that Moniker.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, I feel like so many things are described
Speaker 3: as the eighth Wonder of the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my nerd basement. I was gonna like call it that,
Speaker 2: but decided not to. Sorry, No, but it is true
Speaker 2: because you got those seven Wonders that were so popular
Speaker 2: at least at the time when we were growing up.
Speaker 2: And you look at Encyclopedia or you know, one of
Speaker 2: these books. There were the Seven Ancient Wonders of the
Speaker 2: World then and then the Seven Modern Wonders of the World. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and if you if you're gonna get on that list,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to be number eight.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a waiting there's a wait list, and
Speaker 3: I'm just looking through different things just on the fly.
Speaker 3: There are It turns out a ton of candidates were
Speaker 3: the eighth Wonder of the World. Quite a lot. Actually,
Speaker 3: so does nad Madal deserve that Moniker in particular? I
Speaker 3: don't know. But we can see the venue thing because
Speaker 3: it has you know, it's a city somehow built upon
Speaker 3: a canal. It's also a megalithic structure. And it's the
Speaker 3: stones that you're talking about there, Matt. They are so heavy,
Speaker 3: they are so stupidly heavy that, knowing what we know
Speaker 3: about technology during the time of its construction, which was
Speaker 3: very long construction period, we know it had to be
Speaker 3: a pain in the keeyaster to get this stuff in
Speaker 3: the first place. And we're still not sure exactly how
Speaker 3: it was built. We have theories, but we're not one
Speaker 3: hundred percent sure.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, this is a massive set of structures, a complex.
Speaker 2: Let's say that was at one time like the central
Speaker 2: place of power for this Sandular dynasty, and it was
Speaker 2: where basically the religious folks hung out, and there's some
Speaker 2: incredible design in there. It is now now, I mean,
Speaker 2: we have to be clear, it's ruins now, it's just
Speaker 2: kind of what's left of mostly the stone work that
Speaker 2: existed at the time. But man, it is huge and
Speaker 2: these stones are massive. You think about the only thing
Speaker 2: I've ever think about is if you go in your
Speaker 2: backyard or you go out to a park or just
Speaker 2: somewhere that is in nature, even in a forest, and
Speaker 2: you see a stone, my mind always miscalculates how heavy
Speaker 2: that stone's gonna be, Like if it's something the size
Speaker 2: of both your hands that you would bend over and
Speaker 2: pick up. I always miscalculate and I think, oh, I
Speaker 2: could easily pick that up, and then you go, oh,
Speaker 2: that is significantly heavier than I imagined. And now imagine
Speaker 2: stones that are, you know, six feet across or larger
Speaker 2: in some cases.
Speaker 3: And we don't have unlike some similar sites like Anger Watt,
Speaker 3: for instance, we don't have the benefit of a lot
Speaker 3: of carving or art wrought into these things. They are beautiful,
Speaker 3: but they are ruins. The primary sources are actually legends,
Speaker 3: especially when you talk about sort of the bad guys
Speaker 3: in our story this evening, the saud Laire dynasty, and
Speaker 3: it reminds us of how, as common in history, when
Speaker 3: an ancient city gets to a certain threshold of prominence
Speaker 3: or renown, it becomes legendary in a given culture. In
Speaker 3: the West, maybe one of the most famous examples of
Speaker 3: this is the story about the founding of Rome. Right,
Speaker 3: Romulus and remis Yeah, boys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in this story it is two brothers that
Speaker 2: show up on the island right, and one of them
Speaker 2: gets married into the tribe that's already there, and the
Speaker 2: when that brother dies, the other brother says, I'm God.
Speaker 3: Now yeah pretty Muchndohl is like, I agree with that,
Speaker 3: because Nemondohl does have this legendary origin story. According to
Speaker 3: the story, way back when two twin brothers who are
Speaker 3: also sorcerers, Olisipa and Ola Sopa, they came to this
Speaker 3: site from a fictional island that exists in other legends,
Speaker 3: so they were foreigners and they arrived at this place
Speaker 3: wanting to build an altar to the god of agriculture.
Speaker 3: Non the song spole. I'm murdering those pronunciations. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Let's do the spelling. Nah n I s o h
Speaker 2: n space sahp w.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, again, we're doing our best, folks.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well, and we're talking about the size of
Speaker 2: these stones, right, And it is a legend, this is
Speaker 2: oral histories, right of people who've lived there for Again,
Speaker 2: as we've said, thousands of years humans have inhabited this
Speaker 2: area way before even this legend is supposed to have occurred.
Speaker 2: And the story goes that these massive stones were moved
Speaker 2: with the help of sorcery, a little bit of sorcery,
Speaker 2: a little bit. But also what's that thing a dragon?
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, because you know people had dragons, but that
Speaker 3: would be so cool. It reminds me of Coral City
Speaker 3: in a way. The story is about what was Edward
Speaker 3: Lee Scaldan.
Speaker 2: Using vibrations basically to levitate huge pieces of coral and
Speaker 2: move them around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That was one of our early explirations together
Speaker 3: and Coral City if you if you haven't, check out
Speaker 3: our video or episodes on it, but also get out
Speaker 3: there if you can, because it's it's a similar thing
Speaker 3: on a much smaller scale, but it's also way easier
Speaker 3: to get to. Uh huh, you can. You know, if
Speaker 3: you live in the US, you can drive to Coral City.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I still haven't been.
Speaker 3: It's worth it, Yeah, yeah, it's it's worth like a
Speaker 3: nice little weekend trip for you. You know, I don't
Speaker 3: know much about the area. I didn't spend much time
Speaker 3: there outside of going to that thing.
Speaker 2: Is it Coral Castle?
Speaker 3: You're right, you're right, it is Coral Castle. I keep
Speaker 3: calling it Coral City because I've got these cities on
Speaker 3: my mind. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, is it's like a little city. It is. It's
Speaker 2: super complex and it's fascinating. Check it out. But in
Speaker 2: this case, these guys use their sorcery and dragon to
Speaker 2: move some stuff around. And there's even there even stories
Speaker 2: in there about dragons not being the only awesome, maybe
Speaker 2: mythical creature that you'd find in the area.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because it's so it's oral, you know, it's
Speaker 3: oral folklore. So sometimes the story will change. You might
Speaker 3: see like a giant that they have summoned being described
Speaker 3: as their prime mover. But we know, regardless of what happened,
Speaker 3: we know, like you were saying that a complex story
Speaker 3: of intermarriage and becoming locals, So Olisipah does does intermarry
Speaker 3: with locals and dies of old age, because even if
Speaker 3: you're a sorcerer, some things are inescapable. And when he died,
Speaker 3: like you were saying the other the twin brother Olo
Speaker 3: Sopa becomes the first of the Sodelier dynasty, Soatur dynasty.
Speaker 3: So already the existence of this ruling class is shrouded
Speaker 3: in its own somewhat self aggrandizing legend.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And according to the legends, as
Speaker 2: as this area grew and as the dynasty grew in power,
Speaker 2: they separated themselves off from everybody else. Basically in this
Speaker 2: area is known as nan Madal. And then they like
Speaker 2: they had a bunch. I was like, I think what
Speaker 2: I read was it was around a thousand human beings
Speaker 2: that lived in that immediate area, but almost all of
Speaker 2: them were servants.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and this is whoa. We'll get to some
Speaker 3: sticky stuff here. Yeah, you're you're right all in all,
Speaker 3: if we were thinking of like the Nanmdual metropolitan area,
Speaker 3: I guess then we're looking we're looking at about a
Speaker 3: little south of seven square miles. So it's big, it's big,
Speaker 3: and that includes the architecture that we were describing on
Speaker 3: this coral reef along the shore of Temwyn Island, and
Speaker 3: then some of those other man made islands, and then
Speaker 3: that well part of the main island coastline. But the
Speaker 3: inside of it, you know, where the fancy folks lived,
Speaker 3: that was a little less there was like a mile
Speaker 3: by less than half a mile, but they had a
Speaker 3: lot of tiny islands in there. And it's no longer inhabited.
Speaker 3: I can't wait for us to explore the stone and
Speaker 3: the structures and the mysteries, but we know it's nobody
Speaker 3: lives there. Now. We'll see why the canals and structures
Speaker 3: that once teemed with life are abandoned. And if you
Speaker 3: ask a lot of the locals, they'll tell you the
Speaker 3: city belongs to its ghost.
Speaker 2: Oh. And you can imagine it too, especially when you
Speaker 2: see the like the jungle over growth, or like the
Speaker 2: huge amount of vegetation that is growing within these structures.
Speaker 2: Around these structures, they're almost hidden from from view, A
Speaker 2: lot of them are, and then some of them are
Speaker 2: a little more visible, and you can imagine exploring it,
Speaker 2: and especially at night. Oh my gosh, can you imagine.
Speaker 3: Oh I love it.
Speaker 2: I want to do that.
Speaker 3: That would be so cool. Hey, folks, if you happen
Speaker 3: to be a patron of weird adventures, have we got
Speaker 3: a pitch for you? Get to us after this ad break.
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Yeah, And I think I
Speaker 3: think exactly in the same manner as you are right here.
Speaker 3: How odd to be there at night just to hear
Speaker 3: the sound of the water and the jungle, you know,
Speaker 3: and the canals. A lot of modern people in the
Speaker 3: area view the ruins with awe and seriously a small
Speaker 3: amount of fear, because even if you consider yourself a
Speaker 3: died in the wool skeptic, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: there is a There is very much a vibe to
Speaker 3: ancient places. And you know, just because you don't believe
Speaker 3: in ghosts doesn't mean you're going to be comfortable in
Speaker 3: the graveyard at night, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Oh for sure? Oh for sure. Well, and I don't
Speaker 2: mean to bring this up out of nowhere. I think
Speaker 2: it's connected to what we're talking about, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: The concept that these sorcerers showed up on the island
Speaker 2: and had a dragon built this thing, and the purpose
Speaker 2: was to worship the god of agriculture interesting, right, because
Speaker 2: and what I'm assuming is that the god of agriculture
Speaker 2: and I haven't been able to find this fully in
Speaker 2: the research, but the god of agriculture is also the
Speaker 2: god of a lot of other things, the way many
Speaker 2: gods are, you know, attached to other things. Because you
Speaker 2: imagine agriculture is probably related to fertility in some way
Speaker 2: or another, having to do with the growing of crops
Speaker 2: and new life and that kind of thing. So I
Speaker 2: do I wonder about all that stuff. Then I wonder
Speaker 2: about what went down in these areas when there was
Speaker 2: royalty living there, no matter how magical they were or not, right,
Speaker 2: and they were I don't want to say power hungry,
Speaker 2: but they were living that isolated life, right, And you
Speaker 2: just imagine the things that people get up to. And
Speaker 2: I don't mean to do this, but I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: Shawn Comb's right now and the thousand bottles and just what.
Speaker 2: But I'm thinking about the things that if you are
Speaker 2: ultra powerful and wealthy you could get up to that
Speaker 2: are kind of creepy. And you imagine them happening in
Speaker 2: this space right where you're now exploring, and it's just.
Speaker 3: Ruins, right, Yeah, the time that has passed. It's true
Speaker 3: history is much closer than it looks in the rear
Speaker 3: view mirror. And the when we answer the question of
Speaker 3: what happened, we'll do it in reverse order. First let's
Speaker 3: talk about what happened, and then we'll talk about how
Speaker 3: they built it because I got the notes wrong. But
Speaker 3: in the in the world of oral storytelling, in this
Speaker 3: typical historical preservation method, what we find is a lot
Speaker 3: of stories come to us as legend. So there is
Speaker 3: a legend just like the construction of them, Adol. There
Speaker 3: is a legend also about the downfall, and it's exactly
Speaker 3: what you said, too much power. The Saudo Leer dynasty
Speaker 3: apparently started off pretty cool, like the first like the
Speaker 3: sorcerer guy was kind of you know, he had a
Speaker 3: dragon and stuff like that. He was kind of cool.
Speaker 2: But he's building all this stuff.
Speaker 3: That builds a bunch of stuff, you know. But as
Speaker 3: as the generations wound on, each new saud of Lier
Speaker 3: or each successive saud of Lier ruler became increasingly oppressive
Speaker 3: and tyrannical, and they demanded more and more from the
Speaker 3: common folk under a tribute system, and they ignored the
Speaker 3: people's please for mercy or assistance, you know, like, hey,
Speaker 3: the weather was bad, I don't have any I have
Speaker 3: just enough fish to feed my family and said, nope,
Speaker 3: you know, just enough fish to feed us. Good luck
Speaker 3: out there, buddy. It's and I love that we're drawing
Speaker 3: parallels because you can see these kind of parallels and
Speaker 3: a lot of other unequal societies. But Matt, because this
Speaker 3: is a legend. The real downfall, even though there's already
Speaker 3: bad vibe throughout the land, the real downfall for the
Speaker 3: soud of Ears begins when they piss off the god
Speaker 3: of thunder. Oh oh, very much in play at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is it the same one we're thinking about? Is
Speaker 2: a different god of thunder? It?
Speaker 3: Oh, he pissed off Chris Himsworth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, don't do that. That guy seems really nice.
Speaker 3: He actually does seem like a very genuine, a happy
Speaker 3: and warm dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh no. But this god, this under god
Speaker 2: is we're gonna try and pronounce it non supway nah
Speaker 2: n sap w e. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Not the most well behaved of deities. Like a
Speaker 3: lot of other gods and pantheons, he wasn't always known
Speaker 3: for obeying human concepts. Of morals. Right, So he found
Speaker 3: the wife of the Saus de Laire ruler at the
Speaker 3: time and committed adultery with her. And the ruler was
Speaker 3: super mad, and so he did a couple of things
Speaker 3: that might sound strange with our modern understanding of gods.
Speaker 3: First he did character assassination. Nobody worshiped the thunder God
Speaker 3: non subway. Then he set out, and I still understand this,
Speaker 3: to physically capture and punish the god WHOA. Now, I
Speaker 3: get an angry husband wronged, but the idea that you
Speaker 3: could go and physically capture god is pretty fascinating.
Speaker 2: Well, he's got that sorcerer or blood probably, so you
Speaker 2: got he's got that dog in him, all right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I got. You're right. And the other parts of the
Speaker 3: legend without getting two new weeds, they diverge an explanation.
Speaker 3: They will say, well, no, what really happened is the
Speaker 3: saudil or ruler angered a bunch of other gods. And
Speaker 3: then he also fired a high priest. And when he
Speaker 3: fired the high priest, who was super pro thunder God,
Speaker 3: by the way, then the priests either prophecied the downfall
Speaker 3: of that madal or laid a curse to me make
Speaker 3: it so, uh, you know what I think is happening,
Speaker 3: And this is entirely an armchair guests. I think often
Speaker 3: we see in history that the deeds of a single
Speaker 3: notable person, or a lot of notable deeds by multiple
Speaker 3: people in oral traditions, they get combined into a character
Speaker 3: and that creates the god. So it's quite possible that
Speaker 3: there was just a dude or a regular human being
Speaker 3: who committed these, you know, acts of infidelity and then fled,
Speaker 3: and then as the story goes on, they put a
Speaker 3: different name to it and associated it with pre existing beliefs.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. Yeah, I like to add, but
Speaker 3: I don't know. At the end of any statement like that.
Speaker 2: Just you should but that is the right and good
Speaker 2: thing to do. Uh, okay, because we don't know, but
Speaker 2: there's a man it can it continues going. So depending
Speaker 2: on what you leave, something occurred. And this thunder God
Speaker 2: was upset at the rulers right of non Madal at
Speaker 2: the time, so he takes off, goes to this whole
Speaker 2: other place called Cosre KOs Rae. There's a whole other
Speaker 2: group of islands, and according to the story, he feeds
Speaker 2: someone who is described here as of his own clan,
Speaker 2: so maybe even his offspring of some sort or at
Speaker 2: least familial relation. He feeds a lime to someone within
Speaker 2: that group and gets that person pregnant. And you know,
Speaker 2: this is an incestuous act of some sort, and this
Speaker 2: act creates a whole other god, but in this case
Speaker 2: a demi god. Ooh gosh, the Rock just started singing
Speaker 2: in my head.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've I freaking love Maana and
Speaker 2: I just whenever I read demigod, it's in his voice now.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, And uh mana's good. It's a
Speaker 3: good film. I don't know, Man, it was in that
Speaker 3: age where those sorts of animations were just absolutely knocking
Speaker 3: it out, you know what I mean. Yeah, maybe it's
Speaker 3: nostalgia for us. Now I think it's good. I think
Speaker 3: it's actually good.
Speaker 2: Either way, it's okay. You're welcome.
Speaker 3: And as you have the Rock's earworm in your head,
Speaker 3: we want to introduce you to the man, the myth,
Speaker 3: the legend, the demi god produced by this strange lime
Speaker 3: PREGNANCYL is O K E L E K E L.
Speaker 3: And this guy is, you know, half human, half god.
Speaker 3: And according to the story. As soon as he is born,
Speaker 3: even in the womb, he knows that he has one
Speaker 3: purpose to be an instrument of vengeance against the sawdle
Speaker 3: Air and to be a hero for the people who
Speaker 3: are suffering. And so it comes to pass and reaches adulthood.
Speaker 3: He sails to Pompeii with three hundred and thirty three men,
Speaker 3: women and children, and their goal is to supplant these jerks,
Speaker 3: the Saudelaires, who are just brutal dictators and chieftains. And
Speaker 3: he also is an ethically gray character at points, because
Speaker 3: you'll hear that to consecrate this voyage and this invasion,
Speaker 3: they conducted human sacrifice for the favor of the gods.
Speaker 3: So it's just just saying he's not He himself is
Speaker 3: not like a ten to ten dude.
Speaker 2: No, I mean he is vengeance incarnate, which you know
Speaker 2: probably means he's not the nicest guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes you think that is the punisher a hero.
Speaker 2: Ooh, you know, in some senses definitely, and others heck, no,
Speaker 2: never made it.
Speaker 3: You know. It's amazing how he fits into the world
Speaker 3: of Marvel Comics with all the the demi gods and
Speaker 3: the superpowered people and He's just a guy who doesn't
Speaker 3: give it f Yeah, that's his deal.
Speaker 2: Stn't mess with his family? Whoops? You did? Uh?
Speaker 3: Oh man, don't. I also wonder what the line is
Speaker 3: for the punisher, if you are going to be executed
Speaker 3: for committing crimes, is there a threshold on the crimes? Like?
Speaker 3: Can I get away with a little bit of stamp fraud?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: He would be amazing as a state trooper, Oh god,
Speaker 2: catching speeders.
Speaker 3: Just with the doing bust the traffic light. So yeah,
Speaker 3: So maybe a good comparison is is his Herculean is
Speaker 3: the demi god and does have this punish or aura
Speaker 3: about him. But the legends get fuzzy themsel at this point,
Speaker 3: there are all these different versions about how the actual
Speaker 3: war broke out. One version says there were these local
Speaker 3: kids playing around the canoes and it escalated. They ticked
Speaker 3: off Iso kelly Kel's people, and then those guys started
Speaker 3: attacking the kids, and then it became a whole fracas.
Speaker 3: Or maybe Iso kelly Kel conspired, Maybe he sent one
Speaker 3: of his lieutenants over somewhere at a specific time to
Speaker 3: start a fight, and then he could say that he
Speaker 3: was reacting in defense of his people, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: a wartime strategy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's also the concept that potentially all
Speaker 2: of those servants and people that were basically being forced
Speaker 2: to labor for these rulers kind of were down with
Speaker 2: Isao Kella Kell coment over and going, hey, maybe we
Speaker 2: can actually be liberated from all this tyranny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a full hero, you know, a hero, warrior of
Speaker 3: the people. That's the story that I don't know about you,
Speaker 3: but I like that one because it makes it sound
Speaker 3: like we're fighting for justice.
Speaker 2: And all he had to do was sacrifice some people
Speaker 2: for the blood feud, you know, right.
Speaker 3: He just had to pay the blood price, and they did.
Speaker 3: They did. Yeah, he was there, but he didn't pay
Speaker 3: that price. And so there's the other The other conspiratorial
Speaker 3: angle would be that he had help from the inside
Speaker 3: because the Saudilier civilization is already it's very serious fracture points.
Speaker 3: So there's one version of the story where a lady
Speaker 3: from the ruling class has been humiliated and cast out
Speaker 3: and so she wants regime change. But in her head, yeah,
Speaker 3: she'll help Easil Kelly Kell get rid of her enemies.
Speaker 3: But the game is still very much sought a layer
Speaker 3: to her, she just wants to be the next ruler
Speaker 3: kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is Game of Thrones. There's dragons, guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's speaking like this.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, one more connection here, guys. The translation of
Speaker 2: Pong bay p o h n p e I is
Speaker 2: upon a stone altar, which makes me think about a
Speaker 2: stone chair.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh wow. Oh, we're going to reread it
Speaker 3: Black Monday murders folks who talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3: But it's it's great. We actually we were in talks
Speaker 3: with the amazing artist on that project, Tom Coker. God,
Speaker 3: what a great one. Yes, I know, I get it.
Speaker 3: I think that's a great connection. We also, while we're
Speaker 3: talking about what things mean, Iso kelly Kel translates to
Speaker 3: shiny noble or wonderful king. So that gives us a
Speaker 3: degree of spoilers about how this story works out. Leg
Speaker 3: it goes, you know, eventually kinetic war occurs and the
Speaker 3: fight is very close at first. It goes back and
Speaker 3: forth between the Salta Laire forces and EO kell Kel's forces,
Speaker 3: but with each shift of the battle, the saud A
Speaker 3: layers have to retreat further and further inland to Pombay
Speaker 3: and eventually the Saudoler lord at the time, ends up
Speaker 3: in a stream. He transforms into a fish, and the
Speaker 3: story says you can still find him today if you
Speaker 3: know where to look. So when you and I go
Speaker 3: to Nanmandal, we're going fishing too, if you're cool with it. Okay, great,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, man, that's I know. We both
Speaker 3: enjoy this story, but it kind of it leads us
Speaker 3: to that larger question. If we know that folklore and
Speaker 3: oral history are living records of the past, dragons aside
Speaker 3: or not, can we clean any truth from this cinematic legend,
Speaker 3: Like how much of any of this could we say
Speaker 3: is informed by actual historical events.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I do know that MAUI could
Speaker 2: change into other animals, like a fish.
Speaker 3: Sorry, that's perfect, yes, and don't look askance at folks.
Speaker 3: I don't know about you guys, but Matt and I
Speaker 3: can't change into fish.
Speaker 2: Oh god, if only we could.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what kind of fish would you change it to?
Speaker 3: Probably sea creature? Sea creature?
Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, well any sea creature. Definitely going with
Speaker 2: giant crab first, and then maybe a carp.
Speaker 3: These are very wow. Okay, I love the specificity. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to think on my answers. Do you
Speaker 3: want to take an abrek?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. If I was a giant crab, I
Speaker 2: would be so shiny.
Speaker 3: Just oh god, and we are back. I am still
Speaker 3: quarreling with what kind of maritime creature I would want
Speaker 3: to be, because it kind of depends on what you
Speaker 3: want to get out of the experience. Hmm, Like an
Speaker 3: octopus would be cool, but there are a lot of drawbacks.
Speaker 2: Hmm. What about like a I was gonna say, a cuttlefish,
Speaker 2: but it's kind of we're in the same realm there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: could be just a big old whale and just see
Speaker 2: what that's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe try it out for an afternoon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then finally you could find out what all
Speaker 2: those sounds mean, because obviously, if you transform into a
Speaker 2: giant whale, you like the sounds are translated for you.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, clearly that's baked in. Okay, Right. Also,
Speaker 3: this has nothing to do with anything, but did you
Speaker 3: read the news. Recently, I've been seeing more and more
Speaker 3: examples of this of dolphin interaction with whales like they
Speaker 3: I saw one where a pod of dolphins came out
Speaker 3: of the blue, apparently to protect a whale that was
Speaker 3: giving birth from a bunch of sharks.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: So they rode in. They did that, and then they
Speaker 3: rode off.
Speaker 2: Well, it's because the aliens are traveling deep underneath the ocean.
Speaker 2: They're communicating with the cetaceans, not us. The citations are cool.
Speaker 2: They don't have tactical nukes down there yet, and hopefully
Speaker 2: they won't, but they're teaching them. Hey, you got to
Speaker 2: look after one another. That's the whole point of this planet.
Speaker 3: That happens sometimes here in the southern part of the
Speaker 3: United States. I've seen it. You see it in small towns.
Speaker 3: The closest thing I have to something like that is
Speaker 3: I had a tire that busted in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 3: in a very small town in the back roads, and
Speaker 3: then a truck came up and like four guys hopped out,
Speaker 3: and I was fine changing the tire on my own.
Speaker 3: I had all the stuff I need, but they hopped
Speaker 3: out and then they just hung out with me. And
Speaker 3: then another truck stopped and at this point it's like
Speaker 3: six people and me, and I don't know any of them.
Speaker 3: From a can of paint, and they were just delightful. Really, yeah,
Speaker 3: they were just super cool. They were they weren't you know,
Speaker 3: there wasn't any anything sinister or whatever. They were just
Speaker 3: concerned that someone might need help changing a tire, and
Speaker 3: since I can change a tire and do basic car maintenance,
Speaker 3: they ended up just hanging out and watching me and
Speaker 3: like change smoking.
Speaker 2: I really thought you were gonna say. The leader walked
Speaker 2: up and looked down at you and looked down at
Speaker 2: the jack and just went, you're not gonna need this
Speaker 2: and kicked it and while like while the jack moved
Speaker 2: out from under your vehicle, the other five guys and
Speaker 2: he grabbed onto it and just lifted it for you.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, go for it man, Yeah, because they're the
Speaker 3: uh because well it was a random act of kindness
Speaker 3: from a NASCAR pit team. Yes, yes, they just came
Speaker 3: in and they said, all right, let's start the timer.
Speaker 3: There is a lot of truth in the myth or
Speaker 3: the legend that we see about Nan Maddal. We do
Speaker 3: know that experts believe the ruling class, as you said,
Speaker 3: Matt became increasingly ornery and here's something they didn't think about.
Speaker 3: So they build this huge kick ass amazing place, this
Speaker 3: paradise on the coast, but they didn't have a supply
Speaker 3: of fresh water and they weren't able to grow food there,
Speaker 3: so they depended on their tribute system to have the
Speaker 3: locals bring them water, to bring them breadfruit, to bring
Speaker 3: them fish. And as things are getting worse for the
Speaker 3: local people, the demands of the elite are also increasing.
Speaker 3: Which not to walk too far down the street for this.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't sound too unfamiliar.
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. It sounds very familiar. Just
Speaker 2: this concept that if you mistreat the people who are
Speaker 2: bringing you your food and water, eventually, after the whole
Speaker 2: control by fear thing starts to erode, you're in big trouble.
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate everybody you work with. That's the reason we
Speaker 3: always shout out our producers. Thank you, Dylan, Thanks Dylan,
Speaker 3: Thanks Dylan.
Speaker 2: You Tennessee pale.
Speaker 3: Pals is great. So this we also see another thing here, Matt,
Speaker 3: that unfortunately is not unfamiliar to a lot of us
Speaker 3: in the audience tonight. Social conditions are changing as a
Speaker 3: result of environmental conditions changing, and so these vital supply
Speaker 3: lines start to peter out. The tribute system becomes less consistent,
Speaker 3: and eventually it ceases entirely. We know that to be true.
Speaker 3: And when they didn't have the supply of fresh water
Speaker 3: and fresh food brought to them by people that they
Speaker 3: treated slaves, then it became impossible to live in Nammdal
Speaker 3: long term. Every time you want a glass of water,
Speaker 3: what you got to walk seven miles?
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound ideal, No.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it's important to get your steps in,
Speaker 3: but it's like anng or why you know. Again, the
Speaker 3: changing conditions rendered this top notch piece of real estate unviable.
Speaker 3: So that's probably what happened with the downfall. But I
Speaker 3: think one thing that fascinates us both just as much
Speaker 3: is how do they build it? Yeah, Like, I'm not
Speaker 3: trying to sound like a jerk, I'm very impressed, but how.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question and it does make me wonder,
Speaker 2: and I don't have any research on this, but it
Speaker 2: does make me wonder if the smaller rocks that are
Speaker 2: beneath each of these huge stone slabs, the way they're shaped,
Speaker 2: they look like maybe you could have rolled those slabs
Speaker 2: along those smaller stones, so if you could get at
Speaker 2: least the thing started The question then is how do
Speaker 2: you get those other large stone slabs up to the
Speaker 2: height that you want to get them to and then
Speaker 2: roll them into place. But you know, police systems and
Speaker 2: all that other stuff, they're in a jungle. There was
Speaker 2: probably materials that could have easily been used to like
Speaker 2: secure stuff like that. Sure, I just don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't have that research.
Speaker 3: In front of me. Sorry, Oh no, no, it makes sense.
Speaker 3: And even the experts, the people who spend their lives
Speaker 3: studying nan Madul, are able to make very educated guesses.
Speaker 3: But well, let's just kick some statistics. If you weighed
Speaker 3: all of the basalt and coral rock structures together, you
Speaker 3: would be looking at something that weighs seven hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty thousand metric tons. And this was built from the
Speaker 3: thirteenth to the thirteenth century to the seventeenth century by
Speaker 3: a population that was never more than thirty thousand people.
Speaker 3: So that would mean and I want to shout out
Speaker 3: namidal specialist Mark McCoy for this, that would mean that
Speaker 3: the population of Pombay moved an average of one and
Speaker 3: fifty tons of basalt per year over four hundred years.
Speaker 3: This was the biggest public works project I think that
Speaker 3: in that area outside of China for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and that is a you can only imagine
Speaker 2: the number of people that died, if only from the exhaustion, right,
Speaker 2: and not to mention giant stones.
Speaker 3: And dragons there you go, someone's got to feed the dragon.
Speaker 3: So a lot of blood price jokes. So because of
Speaker 3: our our specialists we mentioned earlier, Mark McCoy, we know
Speaker 3: a little bit more about how this stuff happened. There
Speaker 3: is I guess we should say this now. There's a
Speaker 3: huge deal often made in you know, ancient alien shows
Speaker 3: or time life mysteries of the unknown. I'm just looking
Speaker 3: around at the different books have that say stuff like this.
Speaker 3: There's always this big deal of oh, these mysterious people,
Speaker 3: how did they do this? They must have had help
Speaker 3: from somewhere. But McCoy's research, to be clear, is not
Speaker 3: like that. He is not setting out to you know,
Speaker 3: prove preconceived conclusion. Instead, he did chemical analysis and he said,
Speaker 3: he said, holy smokes, a lot of these stones, you know,
Speaker 3: they clearly didn't come from too close to the site.
Speaker 3: There wasn't a quarry. A lot of them came from
Speaker 3: the opposite side of the island. The big island, and
Speaker 3: they were somehow, like you said, maybe rolled twenty five
Speaker 3: miles to the construction site.
Speaker 2: Wow, which is often the case in these megalithic structures.
Speaker 2: The stone work, especially in the base stones, came from
Speaker 2: pretty far away from wherever the religious significant site was
Speaker 2: that was being built. And that is that is in
Speaker 2: itself a feat twenty five miles my goodness. But the
Speaker 2: question is how the heck do you do that? Is
Speaker 2: it by boat? Is it by dragging? How do you
Speaker 2: do it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, And then I think you're right with complex
Speaker 3: series of ropes and ladders. You know, once you get there,
Speaker 3: if you look at pictures of the ruins and you
Speaker 3: can find these pretty easily, it looks so similar to
Speaker 3: like a big stone Jenga tower, just like a series
Speaker 3: of Jenga blocks criss crossing. And they didn't have mortar
Speaker 3: or concrete, or if they did, they didn't use it.
Speaker 3: They they did something that already might give a few
Speaker 3: of us a little bit of anxiety. Have you ever
Speaker 3: have you ever tried to balance tricky things like you
Speaker 3: put a you put a phone or a plate or
Speaker 3: you know, the pencil things that they make you do
Speaker 3: an engineering class.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find it to be a wonderfully little meditative
Speaker 2: thing to do.
Speaker 3: You like it. I don't know why it gets to me,
Speaker 3: but it always feels like I'm trying to dismantle a
Speaker 3: bomb or something. Oh yeah, and like the world will
Speaker 3: end if the pencil drops. So maybe that's why we
Speaker 3: get along.
Speaker 2: It's not about the consequence or the end, man, It's
Speaker 2: about just focus in on something, you know, and something
Speaker 2: that's not easy.
Speaker 3: I see what you're saying, and I respect it. And
Speaker 3: that's why I have so much respect for the architects
Speaker 3: of Nan Madul, because they were doing the same thing,
Speaker 3: but instead of with you know, a number two pencil
Speaker 3: or a pen or something, they were lifting these massive
Speaker 3: stone blocks and then saying, well, we don't have mortar
Speaker 3: or concrete, so I guess we'll just try to balance
Speaker 3: these very carefully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is what you would do. And again, what
Speaker 2: is a mark? McCoy say, it's coral material in between
Speaker 2: the larger stones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, coral fill, he calls it.
Speaker 2: Uh okay, oh yes, So that's different from the smaller
Speaker 2: stones we're talking about that are also like kind of
Speaker 2: as long if you imagine them perpendicularly to the large
Speaker 2: stone slabs. They're like the almost the same length as
Speaker 2: those other stones, they're just perpendicular smaller, and they're not round,
Speaker 2: so it's not like an easily rolled thing. Yet they
Speaker 2: have shaped sides that are not let's say square right
Speaker 2: or rectangular. They are cut in enough I imagine like
Speaker 2: a D twenty or something. Well, they're not quite that beveled,
Speaker 2: but you imagine that it could be rolled if you
Speaker 2: put significant force on the large slab going across.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, that's I think that's the right way
Speaker 3: to put it. Also, do you ever think about what
Speaker 3: the rationale for these structures is? You know it's often religious,
Speaker 3: but I'm wondering, because you know clearly it's not the
Speaker 3: work of any one person. How do you convince a
Speaker 3: society to do this?
Speaker 2: Will kill you if you don't do it?
Speaker 3: All right, Well, yeah, that's very direct.
Speaker 2: We have a dragon, make us a temple. Go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you get in situations, right, I mean really, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't understand it. How else you would do it unless
Speaker 2: you could control by convincing people that you had let's say,
Speaker 2: supernatural powers of some sort, or there was a dragon
Speaker 2: somewhere that you had, and nobody's ever seen it before,
Speaker 2: but everybody's pretty convinced. You you got a.
Speaker 3: Dragon mutually, is your dragon destruction? Mm hmm, right, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the threat of the dragon. It's more dangerous than
Speaker 3: the dragon. So yeah, maybe it with some a little
Speaker 3: more peaceful and inspiring. Yeah, with religious motivation, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe the land needed that god of agriculture really really badly, right,
Speaker 2: and so the people said, Okay, maybe this is something
Speaker 2: we have to do in order to survive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, people are people wherever you go. These
Speaker 3: folks had jobs, they had other stuff they needed to do.
Speaker 3: It just seems like it would take a significant amount
Speaker 3: of threat or persuasiveness or finesse to also convince them
Speaker 3: to do this on top of everything else. So we
Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe it's as simple as people wanting to
Speaker 3: be part of something larger than themselves. That's a motivation.
Speaker 3: But I suspect you might be right with threat of
Speaker 3: death and injury. Unfortunately, the precedent is there. But we
Speaker 3: know this is a result of genius. The builders were geniuses.
Speaker 3: This is the only city of its kind on a
Speaker 3: coral reef. It's a shame the society that built it
Speaker 3: was not as durable as the buildings they created. But
Speaker 3: I feel like there's so much more to talk about this,
Speaker 3: but I gotta say it just once. Man, the HP
Speaker 3: Lovecraft aspect of this. There are so many folks who
Speaker 3: identified nan Medal, usually Western guys, identified Na Mendal as
Speaker 3: the remnants of Lemuria or you know, Moo or oh,
Speaker 3: of course Atlantis. And there's still there's still largely unresearched
Speaker 3: other ruins near nan Medal, and they're under the waves.
Speaker 3: They might be the source of other lost city legends.
Speaker 2: I could totally see that. Yeah, there's where did you
Speaker 2: find this image? The site layout image? So we can
Speaker 2: send people that way so they can find it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's simple as just go to your browser of
Speaker 3: choice type in nan Medal layout. You'll see a You'll
Speaker 3: see a ton of images. Probably the most common is
Speaker 3: the one from wiki Commons. You know, we're we're always
Speaker 3: hesitant to talk about stuff, but this layout is pretty
Speaker 3: fascinating because it's it's a rendering of the location of
Speaker 3: the big walls and where the canals go in and
Speaker 3: little structures all like you said, Matt off the coast
Speaker 3: of Temwin.
Speaker 2: Yep, it really is a great layout and it is
Speaker 2: kind of a rough outline of the structures of where
Speaker 2: they lay in that area, but it is I don't know,
Speaker 2: it helped me visualize it a lot when I've been
Speaker 2: looking mostly at you know, those satellite images that are
Speaker 2: what it looks like right now, and most of this
Speaker 2: stuff you cannot see from that vantage point.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And if they had fresh water, it would
Speaker 3: be so cool to live there. If they have fresh water,
Speaker 3: and if it wasn't haunted.
Speaker 2: I don't know, those are those are pretty major issues.
Speaker 2: I would have to say.
Speaker 3: There's something about places like this though, that it is
Speaker 3: difficult to articulate, and like who've encountered, you know, an
Speaker 3: ancient site or sacred site. Even again, even as skeptical people,
Speaker 3: there's a vibe to it. There's an energy that emanates,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I don't know what you
Speaker 3: would call it, but I do think it's palpable and
Speaker 3: maybe that's what draws people to Nemodol. Still we're here
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four's we record. There's a mix of scholarship, legend,
Speaker 3: oral history, and guesswork, all trying to answer these key questions,
Speaker 3: how did the city come to be What truths can
Speaker 3: we find in the legends of its rise and fall?
Speaker 3: Why does so many people work on things like this
Speaker 3: only to abandon them later. We should also mention, of course,
Speaker 3: that Iso Kelly Kel, the hero of our story, is
Speaker 3: considered to be the founder of POMPEII, So this is like,
Speaker 3: this is similar to a George.
Speaker 2: Washington Iso Kelly Kel the vengeance guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, because he became ruler after he got
Speaker 3: rid of the saut of Airs. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But like, but his dad or father or whatever god
Speaker 2: guy that created him started the whole beef by by
Speaker 2: impregnating somebody who wasn't who he shouldn't have been impregnating. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? Guys?
Speaker 3: The you know, the highs and lows. That's what every
Speaker 3: good story needs, That's what this has. I would I
Speaker 3: would love to watch, you know, like you said, a
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones esque take on this. You know they
Speaker 3: got the drag game, We've got some magic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh I can visualize it too, especially I'm sorry thinking
Speaker 2: about the like the production on the shoots. It would
Speaker 2: be so beautiful to film, like if you could actually
Speaker 2: go somewhere similar, maybe out there in Micronesia, and create
Speaker 2: non modal but as.
Speaker 3: A film said, yeah, maybe that'll be our pitch when
Speaker 3: we need an entire population to do a public works
Speaker 3: project for us.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 3: This is part of the film. They'll be teamsters. All
Speaker 3: respect to our teamster brothers. Yeah, don't get us if
Speaker 3: you are. If you are lucky, we're gonna roll the
Speaker 3: dice on this one. As we end. If you are
Speaker 3: lucky enough to have visited this mysterious place in person,
Speaker 3: we would love to hear from you. Now. We know
Speaker 3: the odds are low of actually reaching somebody who has
Speaker 3: been there, but it would absolutely make our evening because
Speaker 3: we are convinced there's still may be some stuff they
Speaker 3: don't want you to know about nan Madal, So let
Speaker 3: us know your thoughts. Can we hear from you? We
Speaker 3: try to be easy to find online.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find us all over the social medias.
Speaker 2: In most places we are conspiracy stuff, such as on
Speaker 2: YouTube one of the most important ones definitely, I don't know, subscribe,
Speaker 2: turn on the bell, dude.
Speaker 3: Tell your friends were cool, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, nothing thirsty about that, nope.
Speaker 2: And then also most importantly our Instagram page, which is
Speaker 2: conspiracy stuff. Show there. You can also find us on xin,
Speaker 2: on Facebook, and in a couple other places I think TikTok,
Speaker 2: but focus on those two. You can also give us
Speaker 2: a call.
Speaker 3: Yes, the rumors are true. We have a telephone number
Speaker 3: just for you, specifically you play along at home. Say
Speaker 3: it with us one eight three three std WYTK Matt.
Speaker 3: What happens when someone crosses that telephonic rubicon?
Speaker 2: Oh, well, they find themselves in a voicemail system, and
Speaker 2: once they're there, they've got three minutes to leave a
Speaker 2: cool voicemail. Give yourself a cool nickname when you do.
Speaker 2: Call in and let us know if we can use
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you got
Speaker 2: more to say then can fit in that three minute voicemail.
Speaker 2: Why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
Speaker 3: writes back, So join us out here in the dark
Speaker 3: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,