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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is on an adventure.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined with our super producer,

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Speaker 3: Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here that makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know, and we're coming to you amid

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Speaker 3: some incredibly fast moving, fast paced, chaotic times. And one

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Speaker 3: thing that we talk about a lot offline is that

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Speaker 3: it can be easy to forget amid all this pandemonium

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Speaker 3: that the world of the past is still chock full

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Speaker 3: of strange, inexplicable things. Like I think we all, Matt,

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Speaker 3: have had this assumption on some base level that because

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Speaker 3: something happened long ago, we somehow figured out the answers

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Speaker 3: to what happened and why is a civilization. But that's

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Speaker 3: not entirely the case.

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Speaker 2: Oh no especially, I think, in my opinion, at least

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Speaker 2: as satellite technology has increased exponentially, as the ability to

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Speaker 2: image things from super far away, to see through water

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Speaker 2: right to like the depths of the ocean. All of

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Speaker 2: these things. You feel like, oh, we've discovered pretty much

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Speaker 2: everything now, and we understand because there are enough humans

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Speaker 2: who've been around working long enough, looking at history and

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Speaker 2: archaeology and things like that, we know things. We know

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Speaker 2: it all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And it's a dangerous assumption to make because

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Speaker 3: it could not be further from the truth. Human civilization

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Speaker 3: does not know most things. If you were just thinking

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Speaker 3: about all of the things, human civilization does not know

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Speaker 3: most of them. And that's not a ding. Everybody's been

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Speaker 3: working hard.

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Speaker 2: It feels like a ding. Man. Oh, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Thousands of years, you know, people know more than they

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Speaker 3: did earlier. I guess you could say that we've lost

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Speaker 3: technology in cities along the way. And if you travel

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Speaker 3: all the way out to Micronesia, a place that we

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Speaker 3: have not visited, you will find a ruined city that

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Speaker 3: looks straight out of an HP Lovecraft story and indeed

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Speaker 3: probably inspired a lot of conspiratorial writing and a lot

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Speaker 3: of fiction. It's a place called nan Madul, And tonight

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Speaker 3: we're gonna ask what happened to this place? What is it?

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Speaker 3: To begin with? Why is it abandoned today? And we

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Speaker 3: were also speaking briefly off air here one of the

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Speaker 3: most important things we have to give at the top

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Speaker 3: is a pronunciation disclaimer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, we're trying our hardest. We're looking at websites that,

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Speaker 2: you know, give you the pronunciation, and then we're trying

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Speaker 2: to get those. Some of them we just can't find that,

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Speaker 2: so we're going to do our best.

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Speaker 3: I watched some in depth depictions of the oral history

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Speaker 3: of this area Micronesia, with people speaking in native languages,

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Speaker 3: and along the way I learned that several of the

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Speaker 3: things we're going to talk about have multiple names, and

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Speaker 3: each of those multiple names may have multiple pronunciations. So,

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Speaker 3: like Matt said, we're doing our best. Bear with us.

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Speaker 3: We are going to spell out things, yes, because that'll

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Speaker 3: probably be easier for you to search than hearing us,

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Speaker 3: you know, do linguistic Parker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ok, yeah, Well, we'll be right back and we'll

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Speaker 2: get to them pronunciations.

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Speaker 3: Here are the facts Micronesia stunning place or I guess

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Speaker 3: we should say a stunning series of places.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, A whole bunch of places that exist on

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Speaker 2: vast ocean expanses, very small islands, some a lot larger

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Speaker 2: than the others, at least by comparison. Some islets, a

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Speaker 2: lot of atolls, and it's amazing stuff. It's mostly volcanic

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Speaker 2: activity that formed these places over a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: But the coolest thing about this area is that there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of humans that live on these again

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Speaker 2: fairly small places at least when you look at the

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Speaker 2: continents that they're not that terribly far from Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think just the scale of this can

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Speaker 3: be difficult for a lot of us to imagine if

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Speaker 3: you haven't been in that part of the world. World.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of these islands also are uninhabited,

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Speaker 3: or they're only seasonally inhabited. There's a lot out there,

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Speaker 3: a lot of remote stuff, and it's a place that

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Speaker 3: this part of the world here kind of north and

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Speaker 3: northeast of Australia, is a place that a lot of

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Speaker 3: us have wanted to visit. It's just incredibly difficult to

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Speaker 3: get there from the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking hopping on planes. You were just describing

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Speaker 2: Ben our old buddy Scott from car stuff, and can

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Speaker 2: you just explain a little bit of that, like the

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Speaker 2: number of things you have to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so our pal, our comrade Scott Benjamin, very interesting,

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Speaker 3: brilliant guy, worked with us on many shows, including car stuff,

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Speaker 3: and he and his wife would fly out to Bora Bora,

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Speaker 3: to an island somewhere in that area. So they would

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Speaker 3: have to take a flight from the US. They would

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Speaker 3: land one place. I think they had to fly to

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Speaker 3: another place after that, and then the planes that they

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Speaker 3: were on just kept getting smaller and smaller until you're

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Speaker 3: on a puddle jumper and then you have to get

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Speaker 3: on the boat and the boat takes you to the

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Speaker 3: actual island. He says he has a great time where

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Speaker 3: he goes, but I don't know if that's like two

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Speaker 3: days to get there or what his deal is. But

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Speaker 3: we're saying that to show you the sense of scale.

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Speaker 3: And like you said, it's a stunningly diverse region. People

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Speaker 3: have been living in this area for more than four

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Speaker 3: thousand years, and we still as a civilization have a

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Speaker 3: lot to learn about these earlier cultures because not all

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Speaker 3: you see this everywhere, not all had written records. You know,

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Speaker 3: a lot of the way of preserving history, the methods

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Speaker 3: were often oral history, folklore, storytelling, and we do know

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Speaker 3: that not too too long ago, there was a mighty

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Speaker 3: kingdom governing this area. And this is something that you

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Speaker 3: and I had talked about briefly when we're snooping around

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Speaker 3: for cool episodes. And I don't think correct me if

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Speaker 3: I'm wrong here. I don't think either of us had

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Speaker 3: actually heard of this place. I had not.

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Speaker 2: I never heard of modell Modal. Nan Modole is how

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Speaker 2: you'd say it. Maybe how did you find it?

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Speaker 3: This is where we have to spell it NA in

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Speaker 3: space M A D O L. I can't remember, Man,

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Speaker 3: I just read too many weird things. I wish that

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Speaker 3: I had learned about it because somebody visited nan Modal

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Speaker 3: And maybe if you like, if you have and you're

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Speaker 3: with us listening along tonight, please please contact us right

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Speaker 3: to us immediately, give us any pictures, any links. We

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Speaker 3: would love to learn more because nan Modll has this

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Speaker 3: hidden history about it. Oh my gosh, I'm doing that

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Speaker 3: eight ancient alien's hands. That's not what we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: But one other thing that was of interest to me, Matt,

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Speaker 3: and I think to both of us is Nan Madal

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Speaker 3: is adjacent to the eastern side of an island called

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Speaker 3: Pong Bay, not Pompei, not the Mediterranean disaster site of

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Speaker 3: a volcanic explosion. But I just kept thinking about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Well, so if you're looking at it from

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Speaker 2: a map, Pombay which is spelled p o hn Pei

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Speaker 2: if you want to look it up. If you look

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Speaker 2: at it from above, it appears to be in a

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Speaker 2: tall so you've got that kind of ring around it,

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Speaker 2: and then an island that has a big old volcano

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Speaker 2: or you know what was once a volcano at the

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Speaker 2: center of it. And then if you go down it's

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Speaker 2: not to the south, it is to the eastern side,

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Speaker 2: but southeast you will find a whole other separate island

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Speaker 2: that has this place that we are going to. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know it was a separate island. It does not

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Speaker 2: look like it at all. It's called Timwin Island. It's

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Speaker 2: super tiny, and nem Doll is on the eastern side

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Speaker 2: of it. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the and the crazy thing about this site it

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Speaker 3: is a city, or it was at one point, and

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Speaker 3: it's built in this lagoon, and it's it's based upon

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Speaker 3: small man made islands, artificial islands, which sounds like some

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Speaker 3: pretty high science, you know, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: For sure. And Ben, let's talk about what this thing

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Speaker 2: is because it's not an island in itself. It is

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Speaker 2: a structure series of structures that were built quite a

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Speaker 2: while ago, and they if you look at pictures of

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Speaker 2: them online, maybe we could just describe what it is.

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Speaker 2: It looks like huge flat stone slabs that are then

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Speaker 2: sandwiched like one on top of the other, and then

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Speaker 2: in between they're much smaller stones that kind of I

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Speaker 2: would say, like even out or provide support for the

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Speaker 2: shape of the stone that either is below it or

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Speaker 2: above it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're crisscrossing and a lot of these stones are

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Speaker 3: columns essentially that have been laid out, you know, vertically

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Speaker 3: and horizontally to build these slabs. And again, the thing

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Speaker 3: I keep being amazed by is the idea of man

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Speaker 3: made islands, of just making an island. For me, that

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Speaker 3: always seems and I know people have done it in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East as well, quite recently, but it always

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Speaker 3: seems like a herculean feet a godlike effort, because.

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Speaker 2: Especially when you consider when it was done.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, we know that for thousands of years people

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Speaker 3: had been living in the area, but they had also

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Speaker 3: been building in the area, which we'll we'll get to.

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Speaker 3: There was a mighty kingdom based in nan Medal for

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Speaker 3: at least a thousand years more most likely, and they

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Speaker 3: were called the Sauduleure dynasty sau d e l e

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Speaker 3: u R. And when Europeans got to this part of

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Speaker 3: the world, they were stunned by this place too. The

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Speaker 3: original name for it was sound non Leng, which roughly

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Speaker 3: translates to reef of heaven. And because it's you know,

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Speaker 3: build on lagoon, they use a lot of coral material,

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Speaker 3: like you were saying, to fill in between the stones.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes people will call it the venice of the Pacific,

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Speaker 3: which makes a lot of sense when you see all

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Speaker 3: the canals that crisscross the area. But I've got a

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Speaker 3: question for you, man, how often do places call themselves

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Speaker 3: the eighth Wonder of the world, Like.

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Speaker 2: Just boast about it and just give them that Moniker.

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Speaker 3: The Yeah, I feel like so many things are described

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Speaker 3: as the eighth Wonder of the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my nerd basement. I was gonna like call it that,

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Speaker 2: but decided not to. Sorry, No, but it is true

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Speaker 2: because you got those seven Wonders that were so popular

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Speaker 2: at least at the time when we were growing up.

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Speaker 2: And you look at Encyclopedia or you know, one of

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Speaker 2: these books. There were the Seven Ancient Wonders of the

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Speaker 2: World then and then the Seven Modern Wonders of the World. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and if you if you're gonna get on that list,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna have to be number eight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a waiting there's a wait list, and

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Speaker 3: I'm just looking through different things just on the fly.

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Speaker 3: There are It turns out a ton of candidates were

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Speaker 3: the eighth Wonder of the World. Quite a lot. Actually,

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Speaker 3: so does nad Madal deserve that Moniker in particular? I

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Speaker 3: don't know. But we can see the venue thing because

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Speaker 3: it has you know, it's a city somehow built upon

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Speaker 3: a canal. It's also a megalithic structure. And it's the

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Speaker 3: stones that you're talking about there, Matt. They are so heavy,

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Speaker 3: they are so stupidly heavy that, knowing what we know

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Speaker 3: about technology during the time of its construction, which was

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Speaker 3: very long construction period, we know it had to be

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Speaker 3: a pain in the keeyaster to get this stuff in

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Speaker 3: the first place. And we're still not sure exactly how

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Speaker 3: it was built. We have theories, but we're not one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent sure.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, this is a massive set of structures, a complex.

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Speaker 2: Let's say that was at one time like the central

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Speaker 2: place of power for this Sandular dynasty, and it was

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Speaker 2: where basically the religious folks hung out, and there's some

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Speaker 2: incredible design in there. It is now now, I mean,

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Speaker 2: we have to be clear, it's ruins now, it's just

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Speaker 2: kind of what's left of mostly the stone work that

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Speaker 2: existed at the time. But man, it is huge and

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Speaker 2: these stones are massive. You think about the only thing

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Speaker 2: I've ever think about is if you go in your

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Speaker 2: backyard or you go out to a park or just

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Speaker 2: somewhere that is in nature, even in a forest, and

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Speaker 2: you see a stone, my mind always miscalculates how heavy

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Speaker 2: that stone's gonna be, Like if it's something the size

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Speaker 2: of both your hands that you would bend over and

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Speaker 2: pick up. I always miscalculate and I think, oh, I

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Speaker 2: could easily pick that up, and then you go, oh,

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Speaker 2: that is significantly heavier than I imagined. And now imagine

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Speaker 2: stones that are, you know, six feet across or larger

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Speaker 2: in some cases.

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Speaker 3: And we don't have unlike some similar sites like Anger Watt,

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Speaker 3: for instance, we don't have the benefit of a lot

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Speaker 3: of carving or art wrought into these things. They are beautiful,

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Speaker 3: but they are ruins. The primary sources are actually legends,

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Speaker 3: especially when you talk about sort of the bad guys

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Speaker 3: in our story this evening, the saud Laire dynasty, and

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Speaker 3: it reminds us of how, as common in history, when

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Speaker 3: an ancient city gets to a certain threshold of prominence

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Speaker 3: or renown, it becomes legendary in a given culture. In

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Speaker 3: the West, maybe one of the most famous examples of

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Speaker 3: this is the story about the founding of Rome. Right,

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Speaker 3: Romulus and remis Yeah, boys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because in this story it is two brothers that

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Speaker 2: show up on the island right, and one of them

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Speaker 2: gets married into the tribe that's already there, and the

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Speaker 2: when that brother dies, the other brother says, I'm God.

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Speaker 3: Now yeah pretty Muchndohl is like, I agree with that,

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Speaker 3: because Nemondohl does have this legendary origin story. According to

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Speaker 3: the story, way back when two twin brothers who are

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Speaker 3: also sorcerers, Olisipa and Ola Sopa, they came to this

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Speaker 3: site from a fictional island that exists in other legends,

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Speaker 3: so they were foreigners and they arrived at this place

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Speaker 3: wanting to build an altar to the god of agriculture.

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Speaker 3: Non the song spole. I'm murdering those pronunciations. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: Let's do the spelling. Nah n I s o h

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Speaker 2: n space sahp w.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, again, we're doing our best, folks.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, well, and we're talking about the size of

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Speaker 2: these stones, right, And it is a legend, this is

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Speaker 2: oral histories, right of people who've lived there for Again,

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Speaker 2: as we've said, thousands of years humans have inhabited this

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Speaker 2: area way before even this legend is supposed to have occurred.

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Speaker 2: And the story goes that these massive stones were moved

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Speaker 2: with the help of sorcery, a little bit of sorcery,

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Speaker 2: a little bit. But also what's that thing a dragon?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, because you know people had dragons, but that

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Speaker 3: would be so cool. It reminds me of Coral City

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Speaker 3: in a way. The story is about what was Edward

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Speaker 3: Lee Scaldan.

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Speaker 2: Using vibrations basically to levitate huge pieces of coral and

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Speaker 2: move them around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That was one of our early explirations together

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Speaker 3: and Coral City if you if you haven't, check out

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Speaker 3: our video or episodes on it, but also get out

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Speaker 3: there if you can, because it's it's a similar thing

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Speaker 3: on a much smaller scale, but it's also way easier

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Speaker 3: to get to. Uh huh, you can. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you live in the US, you can drive to Coral City.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I still haven't been.

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Speaker 3: It's worth it, Yeah, yeah, it's it's worth like a

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Speaker 3: nice little weekend trip for you. You know, I don't

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Speaker 3: know much about the area. I didn't spend much time

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Speaker 3: there outside of going to that thing.

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Speaker 2: Is it Coral Castle?

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Speaker 3: You're right, you're right, it is Coral Castle. I keep

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Speaker 3: calling it Coral City because I've got these cities on

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Speaker 3: my mind. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, is it's like a little city. It is. It's

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Speaker 2: super complex and it's fascinating. Check it out. But in

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Speaker 2: this case, these guys use their sorcery and dragon to

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Speaker 2: move some stuff around. And there's even there even stories

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Speaker 2: in there about dragons not being the only awesome, maybe

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Speaker 2: mythical creature that you'd find in the area.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, because it's so it's oral, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: oral folklore. So sometimes the story will change. You might

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Speaker 3: see like a giant that they have summoned being described

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Speaker 3: as their prime mover. But we know, regardless of what happened,

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Speaker 3: we know, like you were saying that a complex story

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Speaker 3: of intermarriage and becoming locals, So Olisipah does does intermarry

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Speaker 3: with locals and dies of old age, because even if

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Speaker 3: you're a sorcerer, some things are inescapable. And when he died,

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Speaker 3: like you were saying the other the twin brother Olo

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Speaker 3: Sopa becomes the first of the Sodelier dynasty, Soatur dynasty.

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Speaker 3: So already the existence of this ruling class is shrouded

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Speaker 3: in its own somewhat self aggrandizing legend.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And according to the legends, as

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Speaker 2: as this area grew and as the dynasty grew in power,

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Speaker 2: they separated themselves off from everybody else. Basically in this

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Speaker 2: area is known as nan Madal. And then they like

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Speaker 2: they had a bunch. I was like, I think what

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Speaker 2: I read was it was around a thousand human beings

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Speaker 2: that lived in that immediate area, but almost all of

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Speaker 2: them were servants.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and this is whoa. We'll get to some

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Speaker 3: sticky stuff here. Yeah, you're you're right all in all,

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Speaker 3: if we were thinking of like the Nanmdual metropolitan area,

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Speaker 3: I guess then we're looking we're looking at about a

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Speaker 3: little south of seven square miles. So it's big, it's big,

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Speaker 3: and that includes the architecture that we were describing on

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Speaker 3: this coral reef along the shore of Temwyn Island, and

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Speaker 3: then some of those other man made islands, and then

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Speaker 3: that well part of the main island coastline. But the

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Speaker 3: inside of it, you know, where the fancy folks lived,

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Speaker 3: that was a little less there was like a mile

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Speaker 3: by less than half a mile, but they had a

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Speaker 3: lot of tiny islands in there. And it's no longer inhabited.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait for us to explore the stone and

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Speaker 3: the structures and the mysteries, but we know it's nobody

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Speaker 3: lives there. Now. We'll see why the canals and structures

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Speaker 3: that once teemed with life are abandoned. And if you

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Speaker 3: ask a lot of the locals, they'll tell you the

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Speaker 3: city belongs to its ghost.

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Speaker 2: Oh. And you can imagine it too, especially when you

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Speaker 2: see the like the jungle over growth, or like the

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Speaker 2: huge amount of vegetation that is growing within these structures.

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Speaker 2: Around these structures, they're almost hidden from from view, A

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Speaker 2: lot of them are, and then some of them are

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Speaker 2: a little more visible, and you can imagine exploring it,

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Speaker 2: and especially at night. Oh my gosh, can you imagine.

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Speaker 3: Oh I love it.

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Speaker 2: I want to do that.

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Speaker 3: That would be so cool. Hey, folks, if you happen

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Speaker 3: to be a patron of weird adventures, have we got

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Speaker 3: a pitch for you? Get to us after this ad break.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Yeah, And I think I

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Speaker 3: think exactly in the same manner as you are right here.

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Speaker 3: How odd to be there at night just to hear

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Speaker 3: the sound of the water and the jungle, you know,

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Speaker 3: and the canals. A lot of modern people in the

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Speaker 3: area view the ruins with awe and seriously a small

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Speaker 3: amount of fear, because even if you consider yourself a

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Speaker 3: died in the wool skeptic, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: there is a There is very much a vibe to

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Speaker 3: ancient places. And you know, just because you don't believe

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Speaker 3: in ghosts doesn't mean you're going to be comfortable in

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Speaker 3: the graveyard at night, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Oh for sure? Oh for sure. Well, and I don't

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Speaker 2: mean to bring this up out of nowhere. I think

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Speaker 2: it's connected to what we're talking about, but I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: The concept that these sorcerers showed up on the island

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Speaker 2: and had a dragon built this thing, and the purpose

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Speaker 2: was to worship the god of agriculture interesting, right, because

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Speaker 2: and what I'm assuming is that the god of agriculture

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Speaker 2: and I haven't been able to find this fully in

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Speaker 2: the research, but the god of agriculture is also the

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Speaker 2: god of a lot of other things, the way many

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Speaker 2: gods are, you know, attached to other things. Because you

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Speaker 2: imagine agriculture is probably related to fertility in some way

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Speaker 2: or another, having to do with the growing of crops

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Speaker 2: and new life and that kind of thing. So I

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Speaker 2: do I wonder about all that stuff. Then I wonder

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Speaker 2: about what went down in these areas when there was

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Speaker 2: royalty living there, no matter how magical they were or not, right,

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Speaker 2: and they were I don't want to say power hungry,

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Speaker 2: but they were living that isolated life, right, And you

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Speaker 2: just imagine the things that people get up to. And

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Speaker 2: I don't mean to do this, but I'm thinking about

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Speaker 2: Shawn Comb's right now and the thousand bottles and just what.

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Speaker 2: But I'm thinking about the things that if you are

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Speaker 2: ultra powerful and wealthy you could get up to that

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Speaker 2: are kind of creepy. And you imagine them happening in

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Speaker 2: this space right where you're now exploring, and it's just.

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Speaker 3: Ruins, right, Yeah, the time that has passed. It's true

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Speaker 3: history is much closer than it looks in the rear

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Speaker 3: view mirror. And the when we answer the question of

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Speaker 3: what happened, we'll do it in reverse order. First let's

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Speaker 3: talk about what happened, and then we'll talk about how

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Speaker 3: they built it because I got the notes wrong. But

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Speaker 3: in the in the world of oral storytelling, in this

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Speaker 3: typical historical preservation method, what we find is a lot

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Speaker 3: of stories come to us as legend. So there is

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Speaker 3: a legend just like the construction of them, Adol. There

402
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Speaker 3: is a legend also about the downfall, and it's exactly

403
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Speaker 3: what you said, too much power. The Saudo Leer dynasty

404
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Speaker 3: apparently started off pretty cool, like the first like the

405
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Speaker 3: sorcerer guy was kind of you know, he had a

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Speaker 3: dragon and stuff like that. He was kind of cool.

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Speaker 2: But he's building all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: That builds a bunch of stuff, you know. But as

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Speaker 3: as the generations wound on, each new saud of Lier

410
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Speaker 3: or each successive saud of Lier ruler became increasingly oppressive

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Speaker 3: and tyrannical, and they demanded more and more from the

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Speaker 3: common folk under a tribute system, and they ignored the

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Speaker 3: people's please for mercy or assistance, you know, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: the weather was bad, I don't have any I have

415
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Speaker 3: just enough fish to feed my family and said, nope,

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Speaker 3: you know, just enough fish to feed us. Good luck

417
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Speaker 3: out there, buddy. It's and I love that we're drawing

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Speaker 3: parallels because you can see these kind of parallels and

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00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: a lot of other unequal societies. But Matt, because this

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Speaker 3: is a legend. The real downfall, even though there's already

421
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Speaker 3: bad vibe throughout the land, the real downfall for the

422
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Speaker 3: soud of Ears begins when they piss off the god

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Speaker 3: of thunder. Oh oh, very much in play at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is it the same one we're thinking about? Is

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Speaker 2: a different god of thunder? It?

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Speaker 3: Oh, he pissed off Chris Himsworth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, don't do that. That guy seems really nice.

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Speaker 3: He actually does seem like a very genuine, a happy

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Speaker 3: and warm dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh no. But this god, this under god

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Speaker 2: is we're gonna try and pronounce it non supway nah

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Speaker 2: n sap w e. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Not the most well behaved of deities. Like a

434
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 3: lot of other gods and pantheons, he wasn't always known

435
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: for obeying human concepts. Of morals. Right, So he found

436
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: the wife of the Saus de Laire ruler at the

437
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: time and committed adultery with her. And the ruler was

438
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 3: super mad, and so he did a couple of things

439
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: that might sound strange with our modern understanding of gods.

440
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: First he did character assassination. Nobody worshiped the thunder God

441
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: non subway. Then he set out, and I still understand this,

442
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: to physically capture and punish the god WHOA. Now, I

443
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: get an angry husband wronged, but the idea that you

444
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: could go and physically capture god is pretty fascinating.

445
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: Well, he's got that sorcerer or blood probably, so you

446
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: got he's got that dog in him, all right, Yeah, yeah.

447
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: I got. You're right. And the other parts of the

448
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 3: legend without getting two new weeds, they diverge an explanation.

449
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 3: They will say, well, no, what really happened is the

450
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 3: saudil or ruler angered a bunch of other gods. And

451
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 3: then he also fired a high priest. And when he

452
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: fired the high priest, who was super pro thunder God,

453
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: by the way, then the priests either prophecied the downfall

454
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 3: of that madal or laid a curse to me make

455
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 3: it so, uh, you know what I think is happening,

456
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: And this is entirely an armchair guests. I think often

457
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 3: we see in history that the deeds of a single

458
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: notable person, or a lot of notable deeds by multiple

459
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 3: people in oral traditions, they get combined into a character

460
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: and that creates the god. So it's quite possible that

461
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: there was just a dude or a regular human being

462
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 3: who committed these, you know, acts of infidelity and then fled,

463
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: and then as the story goes on, they put a

464
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: different name to it and associated it with pre existing beliefs.

465
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: But I don't know. Yeah, I like to add, but

466
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 3: I don't know. At the end of any statement like that.

467
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: Just you should but that is the right and good

468
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: thing to do. Uh, okay, because we don't know, but

469
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: there's a man it can it continues going. So depending

470
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: on what you leave, something occurred. And this thunder God

471
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: was upset at the rulers right of non Madal at

472
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: the time, so he takes off, goes to this whole

473
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: other place called Cosre KOs Rae. There's a whole other

474
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: group of islands, and according to the story, he feeds

475
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: someone who is described here as of his own clan,

476
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 2: so maybe even his offspring of some sort or at

477
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: least familial relation. He feeds a lime to someone within

478
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: that group and gets that person pregnant. And you know,

479
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: this is an incestuous act of some sort, and this

480
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: act creates a whole other god, but in this case

481
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: a demi god. Ooh gosh, the Rock just started singing

482
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: in my head.

483
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

484
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've I freaking love Maana and

485
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: I just whenever I read demigod, it's in his voice now.

486
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, And uh mana's good. It's a

487
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: good film. I don't know, Man, it was in that

488
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: age where those sorts of animations were just absolutely knocking

489
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: it out, you know what I mean. Yeah, maybe it's

490
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: nostalgia for us. Now I think it's good. I think

491
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: it's actually good.

492
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: Either way, it's okay. You're welcome.

493
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: And as you have the Rock's earworm in your head,

494
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: we want to introduce you to the man, the myth,

495
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: the legend, the demi god produced by this strange lime

496
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: PREGNANCYL is O K E L E K E L.

497
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 3: And this guy is, you know, half human, half god.

498
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: And according to the story. As soon as he is born,

499
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: even in the womb, he knows that he has one

500
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: purpose to be an instrument of vengeance against the sawdle

501
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: Air and to be a hero for the people who

502
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: are suffering. And so it comes to pass and reaches adulthood.

503
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: He sails to Pompeii with three hundred and thirty three men,

504
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 3: women and children, and their goal is to supplant these jerks,

505
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: the Saudelaires, who are just brutal dictators and chieftains. And

506
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: he also is an ethically gray character at points, because

507
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: you'll hear that to consecrate this voyage and this invasion,

508
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: they conducted human sacrifice for the favor of the gods.

509
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: So it's just just saying he's not He himself is

510
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: not like a ten to ten dude.

511
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: No, I mean he is vengeance incarnate, which you know

512
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: probably means he's not the nicest guy.

513
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes you think that is the punisher a hero.

514
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Ooh, you know, in some senses definitely, and others heck, no,

515
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: never made it.

516
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: You know. It's amazing how he fits into the world

517
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: of Marvel Comics with all the the demi gods and

518
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 3: the superpowered people and He's just a guy who doesn't

519
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: give it f Yeah, that's his deal.

520
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: Stn't mess with his family? Whoops? You did? Uh?

521
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: Oh man, don't. I also wonder what the line is

522
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: for the punisher, if you are going to be executed

523
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: for committing crimes, is there a threshold on the crimes? Like?

524
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 3: Can I get away with a little bit of stamp fraud?

525
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: You know?

526
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: He would be amazing as a state trooper, Oh god,

527
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: catching speeders.

528
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: Just with the doing bust the traffic light. So yeah,

529
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: So maybe a good comparison is is his Herculean is

530
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 3: the demi god and does have this punish or aura

531
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: about him. But the legends get fuzzy themsel at this point,

532
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: there are all these different versions about how the actual

533
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: war broke out. One version says there were these local

534
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 3: kids playing around the canoes and it escalated. They ticked

535
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: off Iso kelly Kel's people, and then those guys started

536
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: attacking the kids, and then it became a whole fracas.

537
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: Or maybe Iso kelly Kel conspired, Maybe he sent one

538
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: of his lieutenants over somewhere at a specific time to

539
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 3: start a fight, and then he could say that he

540
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: was reacting in defense of his people, which is, you know,

541
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: a wartime strategy. Yeah.

542
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's also the concept that potentially all

543
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: of those servants and people that were basically being forced

544
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: to labor for these rulers kind of were down with

545
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: Isao Kella Kell coment over and going, hey, maybe we

546
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: can actually be liberated from all this tyranny.

547
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, a full hero, you know, a hero, warrior of

548
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: the people. That's the story that I don't know about you,

549
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: but I like that one because it makes it sound

550
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: like we're fighting for justice.

551
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: And all he had to do was sacrifice some people

552
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: for the blood feud, you know, right.

553
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: He just had to pay the blood price, and they did.

554
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: They did. Yeah, he was there, but he didn't pay

555
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 3: that price. And so there's the other The other conspiratorial

556
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: angle would be that he had help from the inside

557
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 3: because the Saudilier civilization is already it's very serious fracture points.

558
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: So there's one version of the story where a lady

559
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 3: from the ruling class has been humiliated and cast out

560
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 3: and so she wants regime change. But in her head, yeah,

561
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: she'll help Easil Kelly Kell get rid of her enemies.

562
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: But the game is still very much sought a layer

563
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: to her, she just wants to be the next ruler

564
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

565
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: Oh, this is Game of Thrones. There's dragons, guys.

566
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's speaking like this.

567
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: Oh yes, one more connection here, guys. The translation of

568
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: Pong bay p o h n p e I is

569
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: upon a stone altar, which makes me think about a

570
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 2: stone chair.

571
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh wow. Oh, we're going to reread it

572
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 3: Black Monday murders folks who talked about it a lot.

573
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: But it's it's great. We actually we were in talks

574
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: with the amazing artist on that project, Tom Coker. God,

575
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: what a great one. Yes, I know, I get it.

576
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: I think that's a great connection. We also, while we're

577
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: talking about what things mean, Iso kelly Kel translates to

578
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: shiny noble or wonderful king. So that gives us a

579
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: degree of spoilers about how this story works out. Leg

580
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 3: it goes, you know, eventually kinetic war occurs and the

581
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 3: fight is very close at first. It goes back and

582
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: forth between the Salta Laire forces and EO kell Kel's forces,

583
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 3: but with each shift of the battle, the saud A

584
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: layers have to retreat further and further inland to Pombay

585
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: and eventually the Saudoler lord at the time, ends up

586
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 3: in a stream. He transforms into a fish, and the

587
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: story says you can still find him today if you

588
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: know where to look. So when you and I go

589
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 3: to Nanmandal, we're going fishing too, if you're cool with it. Okay, great,

590
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: and I don't know, man, that's I know. We both

591
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: enjoy this story, but it kind of it leads us

592
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: to that larger question. If we know that folklore and

593
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: oral history are living records of the past, dragons aside

594
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: or not, can we clean any truth from this cinematic legend,

595
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: Like how much of any of this could we say

596
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: is informed by actual historical events.

597
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I do know that MAUI could

598
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: change into other animals, like a fish.

599
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: Sorry, that's perfect, yes, and don't look askance at folks.

600
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: I don't know about you guys, but Matt and I

601
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: can't change into fish.

602
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 2: Oh god, if only we could.

603
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, what kind of fish would you change it to?

604
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: Probably sea creature? Sea creature?

605
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, well any sea creature. Definitely going with

606
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 2: giant crab first, and then maybe a carp.

607
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: These are very wow. Okay, I love the specificity. Yeah,

608
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to think on my answers. Do you

609
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 3: want to take an abrek?

610
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. If I was a giant crab, I

611
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: would be so shiny.

612
00:37:51,120 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: Just oh god, and we are back. I am still

613
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 3: quarreling with what kind of maritime creature I would want

614
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: to be, because it kind of depends on what you

615
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: want to get out of the experience. Hmm, Like an

616
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: octopus would be cool, but there are a lot of drawbacks.

617
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: Hmm. What about like a I was gonna say, a cuttlefish,

618
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: but it's kind of we're in the same realm there. Yeah,

619
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: could be just a big old whale and just see

620
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: what that's like.

621
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe try it out for an afternoon.

622
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then finally you could find out what all

623
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: those sounds mean, because obviously, if you transform into a

624
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: giant whale, you like the sounds are translated for you.

625
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, clearly that's baked in. Okay, Right. Also,

626
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: this has nothing to do with anything, but did you

627
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 3: read the news. Recently, I've been seeing more and more

628
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: examples of this of dolphin interaction with whales like they

629
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: I saw one where a pod of dolphins came out

630
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: of the blue, apparently to protect a whale that was

631
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: giving birth from a bunch of sharks.

632
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 2: Oh, that's amazing.

633
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: So they rode in. They did that, and then they

634
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: rode off.

635
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's because the aliens are traveling deep underneath the ocean.

636
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: They're communicating with the cetaceans, not us. The citations are cool.

637
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: They don't have tactical nukes down there yet, and hopefully

638
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: they won't, but they're teaching them. Hey, you got to

639
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 2: look after one another. That's the whole point of this planet.

640
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: That happens sometimes here in the southern part of the

641
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 3: United States. I've seen it. You see it in small towns.

642
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: The closest thing I have to something like that is

643
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 3: I had a tire that busted in the middle of nowhere,

644
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: in a very small town in the back roads, and

645
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: then a truck came up and like four guys hopped out,

646
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: and I was fine changing the tire on my own.

647
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: I had all the stuff I need, but they hopped

648
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: out and then they just hung out with me. And

649
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: then another truck stopped and at this point it's like

650
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: six people and me, and I don't know any of them.

651
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: From a can of paint, and they were just delightful. Really, yeah,

652
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: they were just super cool. They were they weren't you know,

653
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: there wasn't any anything sinister or whatever. They were just

654
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: concerned that someone might need help changing a tire, and

655
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: since I can change a tire and do basic car maintenance,

656
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: they ended up just hanging out and watching me and

657
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 3: like change smoking.

658
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: I really thought you were gonna say. The leader walked

659
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 2: up and looked down at you and looked down at

660
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: the jack and just went, you're not gonna need this

661
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: and kicked it and while like while the jack moved

662
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 2: out from under your vehicle, the other five guys and

663
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: he grabbed onto it and just lifted it for you.

664
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, go for it man, Yeah, because they're the

665
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 3: uh because well it was a random act of kindness

666
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 3: from a NASCAR pit team. Yes, yes, they just came

667
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: in and they said, all right, let's start the timer.

668
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: There is a lot of truth in the myth or

669
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 3: the legend that we see about Nan Maddal. We do

670
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 3: know that experts believe the ruling class, as you said,

671
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: Matt became increasingly ornery and here's something they didn't think about.

672
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 3: So they build this huge kick ass amazing place, this

673
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: paradise on the coast, but they didn't have a supply

674
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 3: of fresh water and they weren't able to grow food there,

675
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: so they depended on their tribute system to have the

676
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: locals bring them water, to bring them breadfruit, to bring

677
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: them fish. And as things are getting worse for the

678
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 3: local people, the demands of the elite are also increasing.

679
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 3: Which not to walk too far down the street for this.

680
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: But it doesn't sound too unfamiliar.

681
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. It sounds very familiar. Just

682
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: this concept that if you mistreat the people who are

683
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: bringing you your food and water, eventually, after the whole

684
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 2: control by fear thing starts to erode, you're in big trouble.

685
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate everybody you work with. That's the reason we

686
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 3: always shout out our producers. Thank you, Dylan, Thanks Dylan,

687
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: Thanks Dylan.

688
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: You Tennessee pale.

689
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: Pals is great. So this we also see another thing here, Matt,

690
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 3: that unfortunately is not unfamiliar to a lot of us

691
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: in the audience tonight. Social conditions are changing as a

692
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: result of environmental conditions changing, and so these vital supply

693
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: lines start to peter out. The tribute system becomes less consistent,

694
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: and eventually it ceases entirely. We know that to be true.

695
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: And when they didn't have the supply of fresh water

696
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: and fresh food brought to them by people that they

697
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: treated slaves, then it became impossible to live in Nammdal

698
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 3: long term. Every time you want a glass of water,

699
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 3: what you got to walk seven miles?

700
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound ideal, No.

701
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it's important to get your steps in,

702
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: but it's like anng or why you know. Again, the

703
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 3: changing conditions rendered this top notch piece of real estate unviable.

704
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: So that's probably what happened with the downfall. But I

705
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 3: think one thing that fascinates us both just as much

706
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: is how do they build it? Yeah, Like, I'm not

707
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,959
Speaker 3: trying to sound like a jerk, I'm very impressed, but how.

708
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question and it does make me wonder,

709
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: and I don't have any research on this, but it

710
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: does make me wonder if the smaller rocks that are

711
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: beneath each of these huge stone slabs, the way they're shaped,

712
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: they look like maybe you could have rolled those slabs

713
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: along those smaller stones, so if you could get at

714
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: least the thing started The question then is how do

715
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: you get those other large stone slabs up to the

716
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: height that you want to get them to and then

717
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: roll them into place. But you know, police systems and

718
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 2: all that other stuff, they're in a jungle. There was

719
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: probably materials that could have easily been used to like

720
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: secure stuff like that. Sure, I just don't know. I

721
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: don't have that research.

722
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 3: In front of me. Sorry, Oh no, no, it makes sense.

723
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 3: And even the experts, the people who spend their lives

724
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: studying nan Madul, are able to make very educated guesses.

725
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: But well, let's just kick some statistics. If you weighed

726
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 3: all of the basalt and coral rock structures together, you

727
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: would be looking at something that weighs seven hundred and

728
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: fifty thousand metric tons. And this was built from the

729
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 3: thirteenth to the thirteenth century to the seventeenth century by

730
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 3: a population that was never more than thirty thousand people.

731
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: So that would mean and I want to shout out

732
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: namidal specialist Mark McCoy for this, that would mean that

733
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 3: the population of Pombay moved an average of one and

734
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: fifty tons of basalt per year over four hundred years.

735
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: This was the biggest public works project I think that

736
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 3: in that area outside of China for sure.

737
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and that is a you can only imagine

738
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 2: the number of people that died, if only from the exhaustion, right,

739
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: and not to mention giant stones.

740
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 3: And dragons there you go, someone's got to feed the dragon.

741
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: So a lot of blood price jokes. So because of

742
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: our our specialists we mentioned earlier, Mark McCoy, we know

743
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 3: a little bit more about how this stuff happened. There

744
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 3: is I guess we should say this now. There's a

745
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 3: huge deal often made in you know, ancient alien shows

746
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: or time life mysteries of the unknown. I'm just looking

747
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 3: around at the different books have that say stuff like this.

748
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 3: There's always this big deal of oh, these mysterious people,

749
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: how did they do this? They must have had help

750
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 3: from somewhere. But McCoy's research, to be clear, is not

751
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 3: like that. He is not setting out to you know,

752
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 3: prove preconceived conclusion. Instead, he did chemical analysis and he said,

753
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 3: he said, holy smokes, a lot of these stones, you know,

754
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 3: they clearly didn't come from too close to the site.

755
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 3: There wasn't a quarry. A lot of them came from

756
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: the opposite side of the island. The big island, and

757
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 3: they were somehow, like you said, maybe rolled twenty five

758
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: miles to the construction site.

759
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 2: Wow, which is often the case in these megalithic structures.

760
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: The stone work, especially in the base stones, came from

761
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: pretty far away from wherever the religious significant site was

762
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 2: that was being built. And that is that is in

763
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: itself a feat twenty five miles my goodness. But the

764
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: question is how the heck do you do that? Is

765
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: it by boat? Is it by dragging? How do you

766
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: do it?

767
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, And then I think you're right with complex

768
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 3: series of ropes and ladders. You know, once you get there,

769
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 3: if you look at pictures of the ruins and you

770
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 3: can find these pretty easily, it looks so similar to

771
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 3: like a big stone Jenga tower, just like a series

772
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 3: of Jenga blocks criss crossing. And they didn't have mortar

773
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 3: or concrete, or if they did, they didn't use it.

774
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 3: They they did something that already might give a few

775
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 3: of us a little bit of anxiety. Have you ever

776
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: have you ever tried to balance tricky things like you

777
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 3: put a you put a phone or a plate or

778
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: you know, the pencil things that they make you do

779
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 3: an engineering class.

780
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find it to be a wonderfully little meditative

781
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: thing to do.

782
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: You like it. I don't know why it gets to me,

783
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: but it always feels like I'm trying to dismantle a

784
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 3: bomb or something. Oh yeah, and like the world will

785
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 3: end if the pencil drops. So maybe that's why we

786
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: get along.

787
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: It's not about the consequence or the end, man, It's

788
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: about just focus in on something, you know, and something

789
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: that's not easy.

790
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: I see what you're saying, and I respect it. And

791
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: that's why I have so much respect for the architects

792
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 3: of Nan Madul, because they were doing the same thing,

793
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 3: but instead of with you know, a number two pencil

794
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 3: or a pen or something, they were lifting these massive

795
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 3: stone blocks and then saying, well, we don't have mortar

796
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: or concrete, so I guess we'll just try to balance

797
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: these very carefully.

798
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is what you would do. And again, what

799
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 2: is a mark? McCoy say, it's coral material in between

800
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 2: the larger stones.

801
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, coral fill, he calls it.

802
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: Uh okay, oh yes, So that's different from the smaller

803
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: stones we're talking about that are also like kind of

804
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: as long if you imagine them perpendicularly to the large

805
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: stone slabs. They're like the almost the same length as

806
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: those other stones, they're just perpendicular smaller, and they're not round,

807
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 2: so it's not like an easily rolled thing. Yet they

808
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 2: have shaped sides that are not let's say square right

809
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: or rectangular. They are cut in enough I imagine like

810
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: a D twenty or something. Well, they're not quite that beveled,

811
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: but you imagine that it could be rolled if you

812
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 2: put significant force on the large slab going across.

813
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, that's I think that's the right way

814
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 3: to put it. Also, do you ever think about what

815
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 3: the rationale for these structures is? You know it's often religious,

816
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: but I'm wondering, because you know clearly it's not the

817
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 3: work of any one person. How do you convince a

818
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: society to do this?

819
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: Will kill you if you don't do it?

820
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 3: All right, Well, yeah, that's very direct.

821
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: We have a dragon, make us a temple. Go. Yeah,

822
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: you get in situations, right, I mean really, yeah, I

823
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: don't understand it. How else you would do it unless

824
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: you could control by convincing people that you had let's say,

825
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 2: supernatural powers of some sort, or there was a dragon

826
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: somewhere that you had, and nobody's ever seen it before,

827
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: but everybody's pretty convinced. You you got a.

828
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 3: Dragon mutually, is your dragon destruction? Mm hmm, right, Okay, yeah,

829
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 3: it's the threat of the dragon. It's more dangerous than

830
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 3: the dragon. So yeah, maybe it with some a little

831
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: more peaceful and inspiring. Yeah, with religious motivation, I don't know.

832
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 2: Maybe the land needed that god of agriculture really really badly, right,

833
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: and so the people said, Okay, maybe this is something

834
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 2: we have to do in order to survive.

835
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, people are people wherever you go. These

836
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 3: folks had jobs, they had other stuff they needed to do.

837
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: It just seems like it would take a significant amount

838
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: of threat or persuasiveness or finesse to also convince them

839
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: to do this on top of everything else. So we

840
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe it's as simple as people wanting to

841
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 3: be part of something larger than themselves. That's a motivation.

842
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: But I suspect you might be right with threat of

843
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 3: death and injury. Unfortunately, the precedent is there. But we

844
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 3: know this is a result of genius. The builders were geniuses.

845
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: This is the only city of its kind on a

846
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 3: coral reef. It's a shame the society that built it

847
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 3: was not as durable as the buildings they created. But

848
00:51:58,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: I feel like there's so much more to talk about this,

849
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: but I gotta say it just once. Man, the HP

850
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 3: Lovecraft aspect of this. There are so many folks who

851
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: identified nan Medal, usually Western guys, identified Na Mendal as

852
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: the remnants of Lemuria or you know, Moo or oh,

853
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 3: of course Atlantis. And there's still there's still largely unresearched

854
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: other ruins near nan Medal, and they're under the waves.

855
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 3: They might be the source of other lost city legends.

856
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: I could totally see that. Yeah, there's where did you

857
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: find this image? The site layout image? So we can

858
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: send people that way so they can find it.

859
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's simple as just go to your browser of

860
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 3: choice type in nan Medal layout. You'll see a You'll

861
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 3: see a ton of images. Probably the most common is

862
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 3: the one from wiki Commons. You know, we're we're always

863
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 3: hesitant to talk about stuff, but this layout is pretty

864
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 3: fascinating because it's it's a rendering of the location of

865
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 3: the big walls and where the canals go in and

866
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 3: little structures all like you said, Matt off the coast

867
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 3: of Temwin.

868
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 2: Yep, it really is a great layout and it is

869
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 2: kind of a rough outline of the structures of where

870
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 2: they lay in that area, but it is I don't know,

871
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: it helped me visualize it a lot when I've been

872
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: looking mostly at you know, those satellite images that are

873
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: what it looks like right now, and most of this

874
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: stuff you cannot see from that vantage point.

875
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And if they had fresh water, it would

876
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 3: be so cool to live there. If they have fresh water,

877
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 3: and if it wasn't haunted.

878
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, those are those are pretty major issues.

879
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 2: I would have to say.

880
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 3: There's something about places like this though, that it is

881
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 3: difficult to articulate, and like who've encountered, you know, an

882
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: ancient site or sacred site. Even again, even as skeptical people,

883
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 3: there's a vibe to it. There's an energy that emanates,

884
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. I don't know what you

885
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 3: would call it, but I do think it's palpable and

886
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: maybe that's what draws people to Nemodol. Still we're here

887
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four's we record. There's a mix of scholarship, legend,

888
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 3: oral history, and guesswork, all trying to answer these key questions,

889
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 3: how did the city come to be What truths can

890
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 3: we find in the legends of its rise and fall?

891
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: Why does so many people work on things like this

892
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 3: only to abandon them later. We should also mention, of course,

893
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 3: that Iso Kelly Kel, the hero of our story, is

894
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 3: considered to be the founder of POMPEII, So this is like,

895
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 3: this is similar to a George.

896
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: Washington Iso Kelly Kel the vengeance guy.

897
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, because he became ruler after he got

898
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 3: rid of the saut of Airs. Yeah.

899
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 2: But like, but his dad or father or whatever god

900
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: guy that created him started the whole beef by by

901
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 2: impregnating somebody who wasn't who he shouldn't have been impregnating. Yeah,

902
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: what's going on here? Guys?

903
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 3: The you know, the highs and lows. That's what every

904
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: good story needs, That's what this has. I would I

905
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 3: would love to watch, you know, like you said, a

906
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones esque take on this. You know they

907
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: got the drag game, We've got some magic.

908
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

909
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 2: Oh I can visualize it too, especially I'm sorry thinking

910
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 2: about the like the production on the shoots. It would

911
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: be so beautiful to film, like if you could actually

912
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: go somewhere similar, maybe out there in Micronesia, and create

913
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 2: non modal but as.

914
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 3: A film said, yeah, maybe that'll be our pitch when

915
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 3: we need an entire population to do a public works

916
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 3: project for us.

917
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 2: There we go.

918
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 3: This is part of the film. They'll be teamsters. All

919
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: respect to our teamster brothers. Yeah, don't get us if

920
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 3: you are. If you are lucky, we're gonna roll the

921
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 3: dice on this one. As we end. If you are

922
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 3: lucky enough to have visited this mysterious place in person,

923
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 3: we would love to hear from you. Now. We know

924
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 3: the odds are low of actually reaching somebody who has

925
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 3: been there, but it would absolutely make our evening because

926
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 3: we are convinced there's still may be some stuff they

927
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 3: don't want you to know about nan Madal, So let

928
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: us know your thoughts. Can we hear from you? We

929
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 3: try to be easy to find online.

930
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find us all over the social medias.

931
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: In most places we are conspiracy stuff, such as on

932
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 2: YouTube one of the most important ones definitely, I don't know, subscribe,

933
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 2: turn on the bell, dude.

934
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 3: Tell your friends were cool, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

935
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, nothing thirsty about that, nope.

936
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 2: And then also most importantly our Instagram page, which is

937
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: conspiracy stuff. Show there. You can also find us on xin,

938
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 2: on Facebook, and in a couple other places I think TikTok,

939
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: but focus on those two. You can also give us

940
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 2: a call.

941
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 3: Yes, the rumors are true. We have a telephone number

942
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 3: just for you, specifically you play along at home. Say

943
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: it with us one eight three three std WYTK Matt.

944
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 3: What happens when someone crosses that telephonic rubicon?

945
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: Oh, well, they find themselves in a voicemail system, and

946
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: once they're there, they've got three minutes to leave a

947
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: cool voicemail. Give yourself a cool nickname when you do.

948
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 2: Call in and let us know if we can use

949
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you got

950
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 2: more to say then can fit in that three minute voicemail.

951
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: Why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

952
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence

953
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

954
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: writes back, So join us out here in the dark

955
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 3: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

956
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

957
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

958
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,