1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: step I never told you prediction of I Heart Radio. 3 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: It is time for another book club and we this 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: month are doing Rainbow Rolls book fan Girl, and oh goodness. 5 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: It is so popular. It's translated into multiple languages. It's 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: been made into manga. Has several sequels that are based 7 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: on the fan fiction written within the book that I'm 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: very excited to read. I own, I own them. You 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: can't see them, but they're behind me. The story follows 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: Cath Avery, who is starting freshman year at University of 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Nebraska Lincoln, along with her twin sister, Wren Katherine. You know, 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: get it um I didn't until they spelled it out. 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: Kath and Wren have long been close and bond it 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: over their love of the Simon Snow series, which is 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: a wildly popular fantasy series about vampires and magic. Cast 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: fan fiction carry On has thousands of readers based on 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: the Simon Snow series, which is essentially Harry Potter maybe 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: meets Twilight, and Kath is racing to finish this fan 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: fiction before the eighth and final book of the series 20 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: comes out. Wren, who has always been the more outgoing 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: of the two used to beta her story, which is 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: basically like an editor. They read over it and make 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: any suggestions changes Um, which pairs the two main male characters, 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Bas and Simon together, but Wren is determined to make 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: new friends at the university, saying that they have to 26 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: get separate dorms. Wren goes out in parties while Cast 27 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: stays in, struggling with social anxiety and worry over their father, 28 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: as well as adapting to her gruff roommate Reagan Uh 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: and her social Reagan social friend slash maybe boyfriend who's 30 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: always in their room named Levi. Kath spends most of 31 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: her free time writing fan fiction is definitely used in 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 1: it as a coping mechanism. Eventually, Kath does befriend Reagan 33 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: and Levi, along with her a writing partner in her 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: fictional writing class, Nick, whom she has a bit of 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: a crush on. Kath, who got special permission to be 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: in the class as a freshman, excels until she turns 37 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: in some fan fiction as an assignment and gets an 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: f sending her spiraling she can't get ahold friend Um, 39 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: who has now grown more distant, so Kath is comforted 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: by Levi and Reagan. Kath and Levi grow close, with 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Kath even reading some of her fan fiction to him 42 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: along with a book for class. After he reveals he 43 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: struggles with with reading so she stays up. Kath stays 44 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: up and reads this book to him after Reagan forgets 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: about it and the two kiss. Kath realizes she is 46 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: romantically interested in Levi, but then witnesses him kissing another girl. Hurt, 47 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: Kath flees before Levi sees her and starts avoiding him. 48 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: She also gets in a fight with Nick after she 49 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: helps him on an assignment and he decides to turn 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: it in for the classes final project like this really 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: big part of their grade final project without crediting kath 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: um Then, her father is hospitalized during finals week and 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: Levi gives her a right home and Kath confronts him 54 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: about what he did. Kath learns that Wren, who stayed 55 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: to finish her finals, has been in contact with their 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: exchange mother, who left them when they were young. Infuriated, 57 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: Kath refuses to have any contact with her mom and 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: decides that she's going to drop out of university and 59 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: go to a local college so she can look after 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: their dad. Who disagrees with her decision. Right, So Kat 61 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: ultimately decides to stay and makes up her finals except 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: her final creative writing assignment because you know why not. 63 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: Her professor convinces her to give it a try and 64 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: gives her the rest of the semester to complete the 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: project because she loved her writing, had so much hope 66 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: in her was talking about how she was such an like, 67 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: so excelled in the program, all these things. Even though 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: Kat tells her all she wants is to write fan fiction. 69 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: This is her world is what she loves, she doesn't. 70 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 1: She can't create her own world, as she says. Kath 71 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: and Levi makeup and decide to give dating a try, which, 72 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: by the way, the back and forth and the like 73 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: the miscommunication was adorable and very like, yeah, I've seen that, um. 74 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: And then she is reunited with her sister, actually she's 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: hospitalized from alcohol poisoning, and she briefly encounters her mother, 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: who you don't like her mother anymore. You would think 77 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: there would be better reactions, but there's not. Her mother. 78 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: She's the worst. UM. Kath and Wrenn began repairing their relationship, 79 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: and ren revelle she's been reading every update of cats 80 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: Sivating fiction, and it's desperate for her to finish it. 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: So even though Kat thought she had given up because 82 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: at one point Wren makes fun of her for something 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,559 Speaker 1: so sacred, she realized that she still loves it too. 84 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, Kath also wants to finish it before the 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: eighth and final book comes out, but it consumes her 86 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: and gets in the way of her studies. As the 87 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: school year comes to an end, Levi convinces her that 88 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: it's okay she doesn't finish it before the eighth Simon 89 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: snowbook comes out and renders her story quote non compliant 90 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: that she can still write it after. By the way, 91 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: Levi it's very upset that she's getting these opportunities and 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: wants her to do it because he doesn't get these 93 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: opportunities and would kill for these opportunities to do better 94 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: all these things, so it's kind of okay. Um Kath 95 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: finishes her short story, focusing on her relationship with her sister, 96 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: and uh it's published in the school paper, which we 97 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: find out later like that Nick had taken the story 98 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: that she and he wrote together to try to publish 99 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: it to make himself kind of you know, known as 100 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: a writer, and she wouldn't. She didn't care, but she 101 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: didn't want any credit. And though he he after the 102 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: teacher found out that she had helped him. So there's 103 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: some like, yes, vindication in this whole thing because Nick's 104 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 1: a jerk and we find that out. But then Nicks 105 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: has to do this whole mayakopa just to get his 106 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: name out there, and she doesn't let it happen, but 107 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: she gets there just with her old story. Yeah, I 108 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: wanted to include this quote from the author. I wrote 109 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: fan Girl during November as part of National Novel Writing Month. 110 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: I liked the idea of a built in limitation. It 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: was easy to write about fan fiction, even though I 112 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: would have been embarrassed to speak about fan fiction at 113 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 1: the time. Was a different world because I was writing 114 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: for me, and I was writing so quickly, I didn't 115 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: have much time to worry about being exposed or embarrassed. 116 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: Kath writes fan fiction because that's the world that makes 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: her happiest as a writer. That's the world she loves. 118 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: I think you can write original fiction in the same spirit. 119 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: You can create a world just because it makes you happy. 120 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: You can write a book just because you want to 121 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: spend time with it, and I love that. I love that. 122 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: Um it is funny because I know I've done National 123 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: Novel Writing Month, actually the Spinty series we're doing we're 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: reading on here right now, which is a trilogy. All 125 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: three of them I wrote for National Novel Writing Month, 126 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: and I remember I call see messages from editors posted 127 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: somewhere that'll be like, I hate, I hate, and December 128 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: all these books from people who wrote books the National 129 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: Novel Writing but come in and they're not very good. 130 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: But this spe was very, very good. And I know 131 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: we've talked about National Novel Writing Months on here before, 132 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: but one of the things I love about it is 133 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: that you have to get out of your head. You 134 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: can't you you can't just get stuck in editing. You 135 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: have to write it. I got the first and the ending, 136 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: and in the middle part was like oh god, but 137 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: I wrote like a lot and then I quit. You 138 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: have to write a savant. It is quite a big, 139 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: like undertaking. They have that graph that they show you 140 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: how much for you have to go, and it can 141 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: be very stressful. It was a lot. Apparently another book 142 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: that was written during that time Water for Elephants, really 143 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: and you can kind of see the you could kind 144 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: of see the rush. There's a point that you're like, 145 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: I see what you've done is a great book. I 146 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: love Debt, but yeah, it was began because of the 147 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: Nano Remo, which is what the National Novel Writing Month 148 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: Nana Remo. I think it's Nano Rimo, like right, but 149 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: I do the same thing really well, I'm gonna tell 150 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: you what I say. Well, and as I've said, like 151 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: the current thing, Rina and spent de Fiction is part 152 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: of a trilogy. Who knows well if we'll get to 153 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: all three, but I wrote all of them through Nana Ramo, 154 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: and there's definitely gonna be a section that we'll all 155 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: enjoy together where you're gonna be like, oh, she was rushing, 156 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: she was rushing. I also wanted to include the Ford, 157 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: which I loved, and Texas Samantha. I was like, oh, yeah, 158 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna love this book. Quote to Jennifer who always 159 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: had an extra lightsaber right already to go yeah, and 160 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: to set up the popular quote about the fictional books 161 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: in the novel quote. Simon Snow is a series of 162 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: seven fantasy books written by English philologist Jimma t Leslie. 163 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: The books tell the story of a Simon Snow and 164 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: eleven year old orphan from Lancashire who is crewed to 165 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: attend that What School of Magics to become a magician UM. 166 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: As he grows older, Simon joins a group of magicians, 167 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: the Mages, who are fighting the insidious hum Drum and 168 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: evil being tried to rid the world of magic. Since 169 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: the publication of Simon Snow and the Magic Air in 170 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: two thousand one, the books have been translated into fifty 171 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: three languages, and as of August two thousand eleven, have 172 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: sold more than three hundred and eighty million copies. Yes, 173 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: by the way, you've already talked about the fact these 174 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: books exist. These books exist, except there's only four or five. Yes, 175 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: So the version of fan fiction that Kath writes throughout 176 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: this book, you get snippets, you can, uh, yeah, there's 177 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: a There's at least three, maybe four that have been 178 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: published of Cath's fan fiction of this world, and I 179 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: own three of them and I'm really excited to read them. 180 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: It's definitely, like I said, it's it's Harry Potter for sure, 181 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: with the UM with some Twilight thrown in. UM, I 182 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: think it's Harry Draco slash. I'm pretty sure that's what's 183 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: going on. Okay, well that's what it seems. Um, maybe 184 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: you're right. I guess maybe there's only three books out. 185 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: I thought there were four that I had seen, but 186 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: I think it's right. There's only a trilogy. It's a 187 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: trilogy right now. It might end up with the trilogy actually. Okay, 188 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: So all of these things on top of the fact 189 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: that I've actually already read Rainbow Ralph other book, Eleanor 190 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: and park As how it's introduced to her, um, and 191 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: I really love that book. It is a y novel, um, 192 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: but it's set in the late eighties for a teenage 193 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: girl and a teenage boy who is an Asian teenage boy. 194 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: And I really that that's interesting. Uh. The girl is 195 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: also a thicker, bigger girls, as it describes in the book, 196 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, oh that's nice, a little 197 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: bit tragic. It's very it's not emo, but it's definitely 198 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: not like you're up in like romance. It definitely has 199 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: at the moment of oh, it's not the happiest of endings. Um. 200 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: But I really loved that book. And when I realized 201 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: this was her, I was like oh, oh my god. Yeah, 202 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: I know. I like her writing. I know she she's 203 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: an amazing writer. I'm excited about this. Let's go. But 204 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: did you know she was a part of the she 205 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: Hulk writing? No, I didn't of the current what's happening? Yeah, 206 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: I guess so, so from what I gathered, I could 207 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: be wrong. Um, she helped book five of eight of 208 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: She Home. I did see that, right, Okay, But back 209 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: to UH, Like, I'm just interesting. She is the author 210 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: on it. So I found that interesting and thought that 211 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: was the thing that we need to talk about since 212 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: we're probably gonna end up coming to talk about She Hoped. 213 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: And also with this book, I decided to do it 214 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: through audible, which I do a lot of the times 215 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: because I am that personnel. But it was awesome because 216 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: one of the readers, Uh is someone that I had 217 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: a huge crush on from Greece to Maxwell Caulfield, And 218 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: I was like, what, I would have never known. I 219 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: would have never known that was him on my own, 220 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: but when I looked at almost like, wait, I know him. 221 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: So that was really interesting. However, the main narrator of 222 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: the book is Rebecca Lowman, who's in a lot of 223 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: the books. I think she's just several of Rainbow Rawls 224 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: books as well. Um, but she's the main one and 225 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: we only hear I only hear the audience. I only 226 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: here's Maxwell call Field for the snippets of fan fiction 227 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: and or the novel that she's talking about. So so 228 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: that does it for the Simon Basil stuff. Uh so 229 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: I saw that was interesting, but it was a good 230 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: like snippets to here and there. But at the end 231 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: he does read her short story that she publishes in 232 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: the publication that the school does for the creative writers. 233 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: So it was really interesting. That's how it ends on. 234 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: I know him in that way, but it ends on 235 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's a nice little note to end on. 236 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: But yes, So it was very fun. Uh, it was 237 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: very had moments where I had to stop it because 238 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: it was so embarrassing. I was like, oh my god, 239 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: I got stop, I gotta stop. Uh and then come 240 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: back too. But it was very good. Yeah, yeah, I 241 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: really enjoyed it and it resonated with me in a 242 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: lot of ways and in a lot of ways we're 243 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: going to talk about when it comes to fandom and honestly, college, 244 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, for sure. For me. I was curious 245 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: about your Audible experience because, uh, well they're not currently 246 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: a sponsored They have been to sponsor in the past, 247 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: but currently they are not. That could change in the future. Um, 248 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: but I knew you're gonna listen to it on Audible, 249 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: and I was there when he realized like that guy 250 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: was and I was so excited for you. People can 251 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: fight me about Greece too, there's so many things about 252 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Greece too. But I loved him and I had a 253 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: crush on him. Was he He was actually in the 254 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: movie from the nineties, Empire Records. Okay, he was in 255 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: that and he was a douchebag in that way. All Right, 256 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: I want to hear it. The next time we hang out, 257 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: you should play a segment of this. I will. I'll 258 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: just want to hear the fan fiction. Yeah, being he 259 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: does a great job in voicing the characters of these 260 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: sence fiction characters. He does a really good job. All right, Yeah, 261 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm into it. I'm into it. Okay. So there are 262 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: a lot of themes we want to go over. Um. 263 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: One of the big ones is the sisterhood between Kath 264 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: and Wren. So there's a lot of competition. So it's 265 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: told from cast point of view, right, so we're kind 266 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: of limited about what we're getting to see. So we're 267 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: getting her view of friend, which is kind of um sanitized. 268 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that's the right word. Um. So 269 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: on Kath and like, who's the point of view were 270 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: we're seeing it through. She feels like there's a lot 271 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: of competition between her and Ran, and maybe we're not 272 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: getting the full picture. There's a lot of inferiority for 273 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Calf because Wren is seeing as sort of the more 274 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: outgoing one, the one who is able to adapt more 275 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: to things like college perhaps, and they've always been together. 276 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: So when Wren is like, um, I want to go 277 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: live in separate dorms, that was a huge deal for 278 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Calf and and for both of them, as we later 279 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: As we later find out, she describes feeling like she's 280 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: being dumped by her sister, who Rin's roommate, Courtney and 281 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: her seemed to be hitting it off just great, always 282 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: has plans. Um I think it's Levi. He describes them 283 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: as like she Cath being Clark Kent and Wren being 284 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: like Superman. Right, and there is a scene where like, um, 285 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: Cath gets a text message sort of like a nine 286 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: one one message from right, and Cath panics and she 287 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: can sleep by and they go to the spar to 288 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: find her. There's a lot of like twin grossness, like 289 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: guys being really gross about them being toured, right, m hmm, 290 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely a lot between the two trying 291 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: to distinguish each other. Cath was never really excited about 292 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: being a separate personality. She talks about how if when 293 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: got invited to something, she was automatically invited, so that 294 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: was the easiest way for her to socialize our anxieties overall, 295 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: like we They talk a lot about the different mental 296 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: health aspects through this. She talks about how she went 297 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: more and more inward got depressed, like literally, uh so 298 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: embarrassed to ask to go to the bathroom that she 299 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: uh ended up urinating on herself because that was the 300 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: level of detriment that she did not want to be 301 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: seen for so long. But then yeah, n kind of 302 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: just bypassed it and seemed like she was okay most 303 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: of the time. She was able to stand up to people. 304 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: She took the clothes apparently between the two of them 305 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: that were cuter, more sexier, more whatever, and would wear 306 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: it even if it was cats, if she would take 307 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: it essentially and wear it often and do it well, 308 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: essentially feel confident in it. She was also the one 309 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: the first like this is college. We get to live 310 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: our life and going out partying every night and finding 311 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: people to party with every night, and making sure that 312 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: she was a part of that bar, part of that 313 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: scene which I've seen. I lost friends because I was 314 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: that way. I was very awkward, I was very inward. 315 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: I never went out, I never went to bars. I 316 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: did not have my first drink until I was twenty one, um, 317 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: and I had a glass of wine. I was like, hey, 318 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: literally like I was very flummux by the fact that 319 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: I had finally had a drink, and I was very 320 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: cautious of it, making sure I didn't go overboard and 321 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: all of that. I did not wear pants because I 322 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: was hated my thigh and I wore long khaki or 323 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: denim skirts, not even playing. I wore T shirts that 324 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: were too big because I wanted to hide myself so desperately. 325 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: So I understood that. And if I and my my 326 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: best friend at the time, she was outgoing, everybody loved 327 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: her and I could not understand, and I always stayed 328 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: in her shadow because she was my best friend, so 329 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: a little bit different obviously, but that was that level 330 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: of like I don't want to be seen, I don't 331 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: want this to be a thing. And then also I 332 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: was being fetishized as an Asian person, Like it was 333 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: this this whole level of like weirdness that I was 334 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: trying to disappear as much as possible because I didn't 335 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: want to be seen in any way whatsoever, partially because 336 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: I felt like there's no way I could be need 337 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: these things, so might as well beat them at the 338 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: punch and just disappear. Yeah. Yeah, And and like I said, 339 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: and I would really love to hear from listeners, um that. 340 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: I feel like this book really captured how I felt 341 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: during college a lot, which was like hide yourself, stay 342 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: at your room, cook your illegal grilled cheese on your 343 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: illegal George Ormant grill. I would literally just sit my 344 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: door and I would like look out the window and uh, 345 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: be getting dark. And I feel like I was a prisoner, 346 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Like I was trapped in there, but you actually went 347 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: out right because you did have stories of being drunken out. 348 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: I did, but not nearly as much as I did 349 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: when I got out of college. Um, well maybe that's 350 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: the stories I know. Yeah, I mean in college I 351 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: was I was pretty like I had to study. Uh. 352 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: I learned very quickly at the school I was going 353 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: to that you could not not study. Mhm. So most 354 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: of my stories, um, I I do have some college 355 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: DARKNDU stories, but most of them took place in my apartment, uh, 356 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: where we just didn't know what to do. We were 357 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: like yeah, right, no, no, no, don't drink too much 358 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: Baileys had rose. Yeah, oh, I mean college drinks. I 359 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: mean really, it's a whole of the service we're doing 360 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: to young people. We're telling them, you know, this is 361 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: the college experience, and especially women, right, and like throughout 362 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: the book, I was kind of struck, Um, even though 363 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: it's been my experience too, how often there are so 364 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: many references to, oh, well, you could be raped, right, 365 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: you're gonna be a tag, you shouldn't be alone. You 366 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: didn't even you need to do these things. Yeah, yeah, no, 367 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: I definitely think that that's again, like they do a 368 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: really good job. But then the loss of her sister, 369 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: like just be not uh, just being away from her 370 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: security blanket, who was her sister. At this point in time, 371 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: it was a whole thing, and both of them diverting 372 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: in their interests or or their ideals. It happens. It 373 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: happens so often. I've lost so many friends, high school 374 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: friends because of college. I was like, you are on 375 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: a whole different path than I am. I think we 376 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: can't be hanging out anymore. Yeah, I mean, I feel 377 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: like when you go to college there is this expectation 378 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: that suddenly you're going to be a different person. And 379 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: then you go out or some people will really go 380 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: out and really get drunk a lot, and then some 381 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: people don't go out so much. It is it is 382 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: a really tumultuous time because you feel like, well, I've 383 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: got to adapt to this. This is what college is. 384 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: And so with Kath we kind of have this like 385 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: codependence with cass Or. Kath is like, oh what do 386 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: I do without wren Rn. It's like, oh no, I 387 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: gotta have this this independence. And even though we're talking 388 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: about twin sisters, I related to this because I um 389 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: had a roommate when I was in college and she 390 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: was the best friend of mine, and we had been 391 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: best friends since we were quite young, like five or six. 392 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: And um, we both ended up going to the same university, 393 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: and she wanted to have separate rooms. She wanted us 394 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: to to be different people. She did, though, kind of 395 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: go down the path that red Win and like, I 396 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: totally think it's been it's legitimate to want to, you know, 397 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: strike out, I want to do my own thing. Um, 398 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: but she definitely leaned hard into this perceived college lifestyle. Meanwhile, 399 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: I definitely went down the path that Kathy went again. 400 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: I really think she captured college, like American college, especially 401 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: the dorm life, all of that. She did a good 402 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: job and the anxieties of it all too. Yes, Oh 403 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: my gosh. Um, so this friend I went to school with, 404 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: so basically throughout the book there is kath has this 405 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: fear that she's going to get replaced, and so yeah, 406 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: with my friend in college, I had the same beer 407 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: like the single white female thing. You know, someone's going 408 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: to come in and take your place. Where my friend 409 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: was so much more popular than me, and she would 410 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: come over and hang out with me at my apartment 411 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: and everybody, like my roommates and everybody on the floor 412 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: just liked her more. And it did become a source 413 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: of danton right as in fact, i'd been I had 414 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: gone away for a year, and I had always thought 415 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: she was so much prettier than me. She's all these 416 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: things of me, and she might be. I mean, there's 417 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: no reason that there's nothing wrong with any of this, 418 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: but of course, just my insecurity and there was someone 419 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: was looking at the pictures of my college and it 420 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: showed me into my best friends lash roommates that she's like, 421 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: who is that? She's so pretty? I mean, god, her 422 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: eyes are no, no, and then we are gottend she 423 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: is and she is. But I was like, they never 424 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: said that about cool, Like it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, 425 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm okay. Now I'm okay. Now, well we'll have to 426 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: go back and talk about that, okay. So I did 427 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: want to touch on this. There are toxic family relationships 428 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: throughout this um, perhaps the most prominently their relationship with 429 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: their mother, Cass relationship with her mother. So Cath is 430 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: just like not having the idea of meeting with this person, 431 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: of dealing with this person. Make it clear, I'm not 432 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: judging her. She totally had legit reasons for that, and 433 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: Wrin really wanted to meet her. So that was that 434 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: was a contention point between them because they I couldn't 435 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: reach an understanding. Part of that was they were secretive 436 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: with each other. Yes, so Wryn was hiding that fact. 437 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: Uh and when they figured out who was doing what, 438 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: like it just it was a kind of a shock 439 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: on a betrayal because they shared everything. And then when 440 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: I was doing all these things, because she knew kath 441 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: would not be happy, so she was hiding it. A 442 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: lot of this is like not telling each other's stuff 443 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: and trying to be deceitful with each other, and that's fine, 444 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: like and then getting back at each other like I'm 445 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: not gonna tell her, so she doesn't tell me this, 446 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: like the petty isn't a petty, which I have done 447 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: and I still do. It's fine, I'm fine. Um, but yeah, 448 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: we talked about the relationship and I found this was 449 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: an interesting point because we've talked about father issues and 450 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: fan fiction and I'm like, I wonder if this blas 451 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: into her fan fiction even though she's not a real 452 00:25:45,240 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: person that mother issues. Oh, I'm sure. And I wanted 453 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: to include this quote, um so her um. Katherine Wren's 454 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: mother left on September eleven, like the September eleven. Uh, 455 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 1: and here's a quote about it. The fight went on 456 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: and on, and when the President flew over their heads 457 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: that afternoon on the way to the Air Force base, 458 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: the only plane in the sky, Kath thought maybe the 459 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: whole world was going to end. Her mom left for 460 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: good a week later, hugging both of the girls on 461 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: the front porch, kissing their cheeks again and again, and 462 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: promising that she'd see them both soon, that she just 463 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: needed some time to feel better, to remember who she 464 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,959 Speaker 1: really was, which didn't make any sense to Kathy Wren. 465 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: You're our mom. Kath couldn't remember everything that happened next, 466 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: so obviously very traumatic. Um And going back to what 467 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: you said. And I know we've talked about this before, uh, 468 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: sometimes on Mike and sometimes off Mike, but I feel 469 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: like there is a whole ware of like when you're 470 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: trying not to hurt people so you don't you feel 471 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 1: like you can't be your complete self with somebody, and 472 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: then by trying to not hurt them, you hurt them 473 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: even more. Never get the mom's whole story, We get 474 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: like pieces of it. So it's it's hard to say, 475 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: but certainly throughout their family you get this idea that 476 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: they feel like, for one reason or another, they cannot 477 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: be totally honest with each other. I did want to 478 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: include this bit because I thought it was kind of 479 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: funny about breakup. So Kath is dating this guy. When 480 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: the book starts out aid Able and Um, everyone else 481 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: keeps telling your like, oh, you're not dating not really um. 482 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: And then Able, you know, they go to different colleges, 483 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: and Able breaks up with Cath via phone call and 484 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: and they have been together for three years and he's like, oh, well, 485 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: you've never really been together though, And Kath was like 486 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: what And I was like, yes, this is what those 487 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: early relationships are like, Um, that was my experience anyway, right. 488 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: But also he was already seeing somebody, and then he 489 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: kind of compares her to her and then also says 490 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: the whole like, but she loves her your writings, Yes, 491 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: what he brings up like her s A T S 492 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: A C T scores. Yes. Yes, I mean this is 493 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: also another This is an instance of like when you 494 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: go to college, A lot of times you're like, oh, no, 495 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: we'll stay friends forever, best friends forever, well date uh, 496 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: and then you know a lot of times it doesn't 497 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: work out. Sometimes it does, but a lot of times 498 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't. Well, I was also thinking a lot of 499 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: college relationships don't last either, true true story, And there 500 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: were a lot of complicated relationships. Um So, like we 501 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: had Levi and Reagan who had been in a relationship 502 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: in high school and they were still good buddy to 503 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: the point that Kath assumed that they were still dating. 504 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: Then this relationship was able. And you kind of see 505 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: this complicated relationship with Wren. And there's a lot throughout 506 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: of Kath feeling this attraction to boys and realizing she's 507 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: feeling this attraction to boys. And I definitely think there 508 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: was a parallel of Levi being Simon and Nick being Boz. 509 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: Really he's like Nick is the bad boy. I didn't 510 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: say that, but that's interesting. Levi is like the nice guy, 511 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: but actually the nice guy. I did see like Nick 512 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: being but that that the pretentious dude. So how often 513 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: like for me, I always went after the pretentious, nerdy 514 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: writer dude in college and after I was attracted to 515 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: and then but then the nice like he was a 516 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: down home leave as a down home boy, you know, 517 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: who wants to go back on the branch and work 518 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: and that having some issues and not a big reader 519 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: keep saying that, and that's like, oh, hell no, if 520 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: he's not a big reader, we can't be together, you know, 521 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: one of those big things. And you find out, oh, 522 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: he has a learning disability of because she never says 523 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: that out loud. They never talked about diagnosis, but like 524 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: he's having to work around to make sure that he 525 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: is able to learn. But it's interesting, like, yeah, that 526 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: those are the two dynamics of like, yeah, absolutely, I 527 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: see that that nerd, but Levi turned out to be 528 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: the bigger nerd, while we see that Nick is a 529 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: pretentious ass. Yes, donke about us. I know what you're 530 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: gonna say, don't do it. Yeah. And and change is 531 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: a really big theme throughout that, that that whole moving 532 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: into a college dorm feeling that gets at prison, being 533 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: too afraid to leave, having no one around. Really it's 534 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: just such a precipitous moment in your life because you 535 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: feel like, oh, life's going to change, um, and maybe 536 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: that's putting way too much pressure on it. And I'm 537 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: mostly remember being like so excited but mostly scared. And 538 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: I was afraid to leave for a long time, leave 539 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: my dorm. It didn't feel like a prison to me. 540 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: Are smelled eventually we have to open the window. We 541 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,479 Speaker 1: have to open the window. But the boys were worse. 542 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: That's what I discovered. And I loved the setup of 543 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: Levi's house because I know those boys. I know those 544 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: boys as in fact, I dated someone in my mid 545 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: thirties who still lived like that. Uh he was on 546 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: some hard times, but he lived with six other boys. 547 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: And when I went to his house, it was literally 548 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: at the very top of the stairs. We opened up 549 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: the window because like it was like it was such 550 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: an old house and I was like, where am I 551 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: right now? Is just a college door. This is a 552 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: college household where we all come together to live at 553 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: a house and no longer the dorm, but it's called 554 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: and it was it had a specific name for that 555 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: house because it was a group of boys that lived 556 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: at this house. Oh yeah, I mean, I think one 557 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: thing I picked up on was like there was a 558 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: love building in this and my college had a live building, 559 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: Like did we all love building? And I also, um, 560 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: I went to school that is seventy pentiment or it 561 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: was at the time, and so my floor was like 562 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: mostly men and then me, So it was just strange. 563 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: It was strange. My dad was not happy about it. Yeah, 564 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: we had buildings where it was one was specifically all girls, 565 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: um and it was called I think the Virgin Yeah. 566 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: Oh no, there was a specific floor called the Virgin 567 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: Hall or something like that. We I lived in a 568 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: mixed dorm, but each floor was gender specific, and it 569 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: was a freshman dorm. Meal. It was a freshman dorm, 570 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: and I did not like go into the dining hall 571 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: by myself either me either me either. Well, okay, at 572 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: this point when I went, I was moving into my dorm. 573 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: My my dorm was covered in Harry Potter posters. But 574 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: but this, at that point, I had moved to a 575 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: separate room kind of apartment situation UM or was living 576 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: with a friend I felt comfortable with. I wouldn't have 577 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: done it without that. I was too shy. I was 578 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: too embarrassed. I think most other places I lived, I 579 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: didn't have the courage to put those up. And I 580 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: also wore a Harry Potter shirt the first day to 581 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: like my fictional writing class, and the professor called it 582 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: out and I literally like he was like, oh, every 583 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: character just ends up with their high school sweetheart. When 584 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: the and I literally zipped up my jacket slowly. And 585 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: what I hoped was a very nonchalant man. So in 586 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: the book, when I was reading that, when she puts 587 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: up like the the art that's kind of like art 588 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: that is based on her fan fiction. Um, perhaps kind 589 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: of erotic sound of gay art. I would never have 590 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: done that were you into fan fiction in college? Oh, 591 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: nowhere near what I am now. Nowhere near what I 592 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: am now. I did not know existed until the last 593 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: three years you told me. Oh, I started reading when 594 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: I was like eleven, eleven or twelve, and then I did. Um. 595 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: On my freshman year, I did have a roommate that 596 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: was was never there, which was kind of great and 597 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: kind of scary because I never knew when she would 598 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: show up. Um. Then I had another his boyfriend practically 599 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: lived with us in our tiny shared space that was 600 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: further shared with others when it came to the bathroom. 601 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: And you know, you kind of do want to make 602 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: these these college memories all I did where you want 603 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: to meet your roommate become best friends. But she was like, 604 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: oh no, I'm good. Right. So here's another quote. In 605 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: New Situations, all the Trie case rules are the ones 606 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: nobody bothers to explain to you, and the ones you 607 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: can't google, Like where just the line start? What food 608 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: can you take? Where are you supposed to stand? Then? 609 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: Where are you supposed to sit? Where do you go 610 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: when you're done? Why is everyone watching you? Bah? And 611 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: I love that because I feel that's so hard. I 612 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: feel that's so hard. Blank. How did everyone seem to 613 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: know what to do and I don't know what to do? Yeah, 614 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: she talks about I can't google. I google all the 615 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: restaurants to see ahead of time. How this is going 616 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: to set up the parking as a nightmare. I need 617 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: to know all of those things. Can't stand it. I 618 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: can't stand it. But I would not go to the 619 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: dining halls without friends because I felt it felt too much, 620 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: unless it was early in the morning when I knew 621 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: it was very sparse and no one was going to 622 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: be there. Right, Yeah, me too. I would go at 623 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: off times for sure, like oh it's okay if I 624 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: sit alone, oh yeah, Or if I don't know where 625 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: to go, I just go right to the front of 626 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: the line because there's this Did you remind me of 627 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: the first week? Um I moved to China? Uh yeah. 628 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: And the first week there, I ate whatever I could 629 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: point at or purchased without interacting with anyone. And one 630 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: of the first nights there, I remember crying into some 631 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: ramen noodles that I made in my hotel room like 632 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: a tea kettle, and I ate it using a comb 633 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: handle and a toothbrush as chopsticks because I was scared 634 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: to ask for chopsticks. I did that. When I went 635 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: to Italy, I traveled by myself and I was in 636 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: a small town and I didn't know anything, and no 637 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: one spoke English, which was and I did not speak Italian, 638 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, and I'm all by myself. 639 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: I had to point to try to find where I was. 640 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: I was dragging a roller suitcase. It was bad, and 641 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: so I finally went to a store found cookies and 642 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: sparkling water. I went back and the cookies and sparkling 643 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: water the first night. Yes, it's good. And speaking of 644 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: there was a lot of healthy dieting and eating that 645 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: was exhibited in this book. And I know we've done 646 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: an episode before on junk orexia, which is basically like 647 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: foregoing food to use all of your allotted calories in 648 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: your mind on alcohol, and this is pretty common on 649 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: college campuses and also really unhealthy, I hope is clear. 650 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: And a lot of that, unfortunately, did bring back memories 651 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: for me of friends who are like on paleo diets 652 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 1: or actually did the skinny bitch oh that they mentioned 653 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: in the book. I did that. I will say I 654 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: did that because I was more horrified about the stories 655 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: of the animal cruelty that was in the book. But 656 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: I definitely followed whatever and I was like, what, Yeah, 657 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: And there's so much like pressure around the freshman fifteen 658 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: fifteen pounds you're expected to gain. There's just so much 659 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: ormongering around weight. And also with Wren and her roommate Courtney, 660 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: there was a lot of alcoholism and excessive drinking, poor 661 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: coping skills in general, I would say, but I definitely 662 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: saw that when I was there, where people uh maybe 663 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: had never had anything to drink before and then they 664 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: got to this atmosphere that might have been a big, 665 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, party drinking, social drinking atmosphere and then didn't 666 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: really know how to um regulate. So I thought that 667 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 1: was interesting because the way Brin is presented, she's sort 668 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: of like having that college experience. In quotes that were 669 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: supposed to have. But clearly she wasn't coping well either. 670 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: She was just she was just doing it in a 671 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: more socially sanctioned way unfortunately. And there was some ablest 672 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: language throughout and a lot of fear around mental health, 673 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: especially for cath because like, yeah, in their dad, like 674 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: there was a lot of like non conversation. The only 675 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: time we talked about counseling is when everything went really extreme. Um, 676 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: I don't know like her stance on that, I have 677 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: no understanding of the conversation and maybe just very like 678 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: in this family that was not a thing. I don't 679 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: know how the cultural ideas are, but yeah, absolutely with 680 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: like all the conversations again about him not being able 681 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: to read as typically as everyone else not being able 682 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 1: to completely understand, I'm guessing it was like a type 683 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: of dyslexia or something. Uh, they didn't really do too much, 684 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: but like the way she bypassed all of that seemed 685 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: kind of like, Okay, this could happen, moving on, and 686 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: that again, this is not necessarily the point in the book, 687 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: and that's not something that she wanted to focus on, 688 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: which is fine because it's her book. But yeah, there 689 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: was a lot of like the way they were talking 690 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: about bipolar and his extreme need to be like I 691 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: can just maintain with running. Of course, they were all 692 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: very worried and concerned about that him needing care. Of course, 693 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: I me be me. I'm like, this feels like maybe 694 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: part of the problem in the marriage a they got 695 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: mad because she got pregnant. Be he had a lot 696 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: of mental health he wasn't willing to treat um and 697 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: really felt like he was off, and then everybody around 698 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: him encouraged him in his manic episodes instead of having 699 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: the conversation of like, this is not this You're not 700 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: maintaining as well as you think. So there was a 701 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: lot of the breakdown in that conversation. I was like, Okay, addiction, 702 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: bipolar she's talking about instead of calling it what it is, 703 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: talking about being crazy. And because she wasn't, her anxiety 704 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: was out um for her, almost unmanageable for hers at 705 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: times which she was able to maintain. But yeah, there 706 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: was definitely a lot of those like this could have 707 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: been better had we been able to kind of showed 708 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: one great example. Yeah, I don't want to excuse it, 709 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: but um, there is a certain level in college where 710 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: you're you're kind of modeling about that language. Uh, and 711 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: you're exposed to it because we don't learn about it 712 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: right unfortunately. But yeah, that was something that I noticed. 713 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: In the thing that I noticed is um something else 714 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about, which is prunification. Yeah, where Kath really 715 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: felt like she had to be there for her dad 716 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: and take care of her dad or else things would 717 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: go right. Well, and things did go wrong, so she 718 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, she wasn't completely incorrect, and the fact 719 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: that she was the only one concerned very like I was. 720 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: I was frustrated for her. Uh, definitely in a lot 721 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: of those situations. But the dad did come back to 722 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: parent Ran. We got to see that art Art got 723 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: to parent rent Ran in the end. But yeah, definitely 724 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: a lot of that as well for her because she 725 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: is the overly responsible one, which how was Yeah, I 726 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: get it me too. I mean I lived at home 727 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: with my father for several years so I could help 728 00:41:47,440 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: take care of him, So I totally get it. Well, 729 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: now we have to talk about Phantom because we have to. 730 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: We have to. We have to because that is throughout 731 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: throughout You've got the snippets of this fan fiction that's 732 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: the title of the book, so you know, and I 733 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 1: love that Kath has this fan fiction that she thinks 734 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: about like oh, sixty people reading this fan fiction and 735 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: like what else could equate to that? Um, Which, yeah, 736 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: I mean that's a huge deal. And it is funny 737 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: in reading this, Um, how many fan fiction posts I've seen, 738 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: which I've read a lot of fan fiction quite in depth, 739 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 1: where uh, the college update comes in, like, oh, I'm 740 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,760 Speaker 1: going to university, so I won't be able to update 741 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: as often. Um, you really do get invested in these 742 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: people's lives and their schedules. You're like, oh, god, she's 743 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: scoring to be diversity. Oh I'll never know what. Like 744 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: this is kind of the problem with fan fiction because 745 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: typically we were originally looking at taking one of your 746 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: fan fictions that you like, one of the writers, one 747 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: of them in the world, and reading that and you're 748 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: like mmmmm, they're all either not finished and they's like 749 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: how many chapters? So many chapters, or you know, like, uh, 750 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: it was just like typically they weren't finished. I was like, really, 751 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, I can't people kind of that world. Yeah, 752 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: oh yeah. I had a friend I introduced to fan 753 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: fiction and she she told me like, oh, well, I 754 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: won't read an uncompleted fan fiction because I'll be heartbroken. 755 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, you're gonna be heartbroken. Um. 756 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to include this quote. Kath had an audience 757 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: now a following, all these people she didn't know who 758 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: expected things from her and questioned her decisions. Sometimes they 759 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: even turned against her date trash her on other fan sites, 760 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: saying that Kath used to be good, but she's lost 761 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: the magic, that her baths was to cannon or not 762 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: canon enough, that her Simon was apprud that she overwrote Penelope. Yes, one, Yes, 763 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: this is what happens like people you get big enough 764 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: and now write their own fan fiction of your fan fiction. 765 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,879 Speaker 1: And that's one thing I struggle with, which I would 766 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: never actually do, but I do think about it. Is like, 767 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, if some author has a big wife update, 768 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: they go to college or whatever, and they're not updating 769 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,399 Speaker 1: as as per usual on their schedule, where people will 770 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: send them messages like, hey, where's the update? I need 771 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: the update. That's not a good luckly meal, just totally fair. 772 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: I find it funny because in the book, which we 773 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: didn't talk about much, he actually in owners a fan 774 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: that didn't that she didn't know what like she was 775 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: talking to her in the library, didn't talk about how 776 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: she much she likes her more than the original author 777 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: and she just can't wait and it's been so long 778 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: and she doesn't know what's happening. You're like, that is 779 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: really cute. I wonder if that's ever happened. I mean, 780 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: oh my god, like I said a million times, there 781 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: are fan fictions that I have read that are better, 782 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,319 Speaker 1: in my opinion, than the actual thing and what happened, right, 783 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: And you can, like if you go to edsy, which 784 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: is not currently a sponsor at one time was but 785 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 1: it's not currently, you can go and find items based 786 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,320 Speaker 1: on people's fan fiction, like that person with the shirt earlier. 787 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: That is like an actual thing that you can you 788 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:47,760 Speaker 1: can look up and buy merchandise around people's fan fiction. Really, yes, 789 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: I got you a fan fiction shirt, but it was 790 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: more of like, these are the styles that you like, 791 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: and I love it. I do love it. Thank you. 792 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: I just want to enclude this quote because it has 793 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: just so many things I've talked about before. Or she 794 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: didn't tell Nick that writing love storys was her thing, 795 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: her one true thing, and that his anti love story 796 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: read like somebody's very first fan thic. Mary sue to 797 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: the tenth power that the main character was obviously Nick 798 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: and that the girl was obviously went on a writer 799 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: plus Snaty Portman plus Selena Gomez. I've said it a 800 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: million times. I think that when men write what I 801 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,200 Speaker 1: would say is fan fiction with a Mary Zoo, it 802 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: is seen as oh, the psycademic, they get a lot 803 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: more leeway than women, um, Whereas when women do it, 804 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,440 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you think you could be the main character. Oh, 805 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: that's cute, right. And then there's this whole plot line 806 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: with um fan fiction being stealing with her teacher um 807 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: or professor, and also with Nick being stealing her stuff, 808 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,720 Speaker 1: and that kind of line of who is the creator, 809 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: who was the muse and him using her as a muse. 810 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts about this, which we 811 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: don't have time to get into because this is already 812 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: going Kyle along. But I do think there are some 813 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,879 Speaker 1: things that are foundational, like archetypes. And I remember when 814 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: I was in fifth grade, UM, me and this other student, 815 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: uh Andrea, we wrote essentially the same story separately, and 816 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: she put up such a such a fuss about it 817 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: that I had stolen it from her, and I absolutely hadn't. 818 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: It was just an idea that I think is in 819 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: the ether and is one of those kind of building 820 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: blocks with a lot of stories we have. But she 821 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,720 Speaker 1: threw up this big stink and got me in trouble. 822 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: And I still think about it to this day. I 823 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of debate to be had around this. 824 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: I personally would have never turned in a fan fiction 825 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: as a college project. I might have turned in something 826 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,399 Speaker 1: that was actually a fan fiction, but I would change 827 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: the names and change things around. I was gonna say, 828 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: especially in college that's creative writing college. Like, she wouldn't 829 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:10,840 Speaker 1: share it with Nick, but she would share it with 830 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,840 Speaker 1: a professor that scenes bold but good on her. She 831 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,279 Speaker 1: knows what she's good at, and clearly she was good 832 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: at it. Slash the fictional character, I do think like 833 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the professor might have been too tough, 834 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: like I think she needed Kathy died that lesson. But 835 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 1: I didn't have to go like that because if the 836 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,720 Speaker 1: story is good, like I don't know. Again, those characters 837 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: are kind of archetypes a lot of time. That's a 838 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: different topic for a different podcast perhaps, But I did 839 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: want to include a final note about fan fictionist coping 840 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,839 Speaker 1: because I have talked about it a lot and it 841 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: was clearly present in this book. There is one thing that, Um, 842 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: I know you and I Samantha have talked about off Mike. 843 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if we've ever actually talked about it 844 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: on here, But when Wren has seemingly moved on from 845 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: this fandom that they her and Cath are both so 846 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: in love with and bonded over, that resonated with me 847 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: so hard that it hit me so hard, like one 848 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,720 Speaker 1: day everyone's gonna move on. I'm going to move on maybe, um. 849 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: And that's scary. It's like that scene and inside out 850 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: where all of her kind of inner foundations have been 851 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: part of her identity get obliterated, um and replaced with 852 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: something else. Because fandom has made up a lot of 853 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: my identity, for better or worse. And when people move on, 854 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,239 Speaker 1: when people make fun of it, that's like they're making 855 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 1: fun of you. And especially like when people move on 856 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: because they're like, oh that's silly or I'm mature, so 857 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore. And it feels very judgmental, 858 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: where maybe had been something that made you friends previously. 859 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: This is actually something that still bothers me to this day, 860 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: Like I still I get my head about, like, oh 861 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: my gosh, what if one day I move on from 862 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: Star Wars? What if Star Wars is no longer so 863 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: important to me? When I do, it's so much to 864 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: me right now, and I'm like pretty sad about it. 865 00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,440 Speaker 1: I do find it interesting because I've never loved anything 866 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,359 Speaker 1: this much. I've never loved a character of anything that 867 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 1: to me, they were life, they were living, they were 868 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,800 Speaker 1: like they were sacred to that point of course, Like 869 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 1: I like things, but I don't love things to this level, 870 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 1: which makes me think I'm a horrible human being in general. 871 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: But like overall, like I've wondered, and I did ask you, 872 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: I was like, what did you think of this interpretation? 873 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,279 Speaker 1: Is this? Is this what you feel? Is this what 874 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,839 Speaker 1: you see? This like passion? Is this is this how 875 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: you feel about your fain fiction? And I did ask 876 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,280 Speaker 1: him what, I don't know if you fully answered that question, 877 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: but yes, yes, absolutely, And it's kind of funny how 878 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:03,400 Speaker 1: attached to get or at least for me to to 879 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 1: fan fiction and fan fiction writers. And I recently had 880 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: to tell um my friend that I introduced a fan fiction, like, 881 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: here's the sad truth of it. Um, they're probably going 882 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 1: to move on. Um right now, they're super into it. 883 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,640 Speaker 1: You're super into it. But they they might to get 884 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: into another fandom, or they might, I don't know, get 885 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,400 Speaker 1: older and get busy with other things and they this 886 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,120 Speaker 1: won't be their thing anymore, and they might never finish 887 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: their story that you love so much. Um, And that 888 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,840 Speaker 1: can be kind of sad to accept and that it 889 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: really hurts. And I've even written the end to some 890 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,839 Speaker 1: fan fictions that I'm never going to post but for 891 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,480 Speaker 1: me because I wanted how they end. I love them 892 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:58,320 Speaker 1: so much and for them to just stop so painful. 893 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 1: And another thing that really resonated with me was the 894 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,359 Speaker 1: officially noncompliant, which we talked about the top. But this 895 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,719 Speaker 1: is basically like Cannon comes in, Cannon being like, this 896 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 1: is the officially confirmed, sanctioned storyline and comes in and 897 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,160 Speaker 1: tells you, tells you what it is, and a lot 898 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,400 Speaker 1: of times, in my experience, is not necessarily what you want. 899 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 1: So like for instance, which this book is definitely playing on. 900 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,799 Speaker 1: Before the Seventh Theory Potter book came out, all of 901 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,160 Speaker 1: us were rushing to write and or read fan fiction. 902 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,440 Speaker 1: That was the seventh book because we knew when it 903 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: came out it was over. Like there was no hope 904 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,960 Speaker 1: left in wondering what could happen because we knew what happened. 905 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: But before it came out, there was this kind of 906 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: beautiful universe what we could pretend this would happened, or 907 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: this would happened, or this would happen whatever. And so 908 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,160 Speaker 1: for me, like right now, I this is one of 909 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: the reasons why I'm like scared of new Star Wars 910 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: things coming out, because I love Star Wars, but I'd 911 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,919 Speaker 1: like the Mandalorian season three is going to really mess 912 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,080 Speaker 1: up my my stories because it's going to close this door. 913 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:21,480 Speaker 1: And I have really strong headcannon being. You know, I 914 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,440 Speaker 1: I pretend this doesn't happen, or this didn't happen or whatever. Um, 915 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: but you still can't entirely forget that it did. And 916 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 1: it impacts people who write fan fiction, like all of 917 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, it changes the what people are writing and 918 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 1: how they're writing, and how they're writing certain characters that 919 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,200 Speaker 1: you love. Um, it's kind of a kind of a 920 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: scary thing. So hard I connected to that, but yeah, um, 921 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: I really love this book that I'm really glad that 922 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: you've liked it. I think for me, on my end, 923 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,920 Speaker 1: I loved the take on this coming of age story. 924 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,320 Speaker 1: Our relationship with Levi was un different. It is very heteronormative, 925 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 1: like think the mentions of any like queer relationships are 926 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: essentially in the fan fiction a kind of moment odd 927 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: reaction about like I'm reading you a story about two 928 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: gay dudes and there's a gay dude in the house. 929 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it, And I was like, wait, 930 00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 1: but what's the oddly place. I don't know how I 931 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,600 Speaker 1: feel about this, but yeah, like so, and apparently from 932 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,880 Speaker 1: what I'm gathering, I'm not seeing too many I guess. 933 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,879 Speaker 1: I guess the fans that carry On and Wayward Son 934 00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,440 Speaker 1: may have the very very queer relationships. I don't know, 935 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,320 Speaker 1: but I have not seen that thus far with Rainbows 936 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: other books. But yeah, I really loved the relationships. I 937 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:40,799 Speaker 1: even love the Reagan character. I was like, that's a 938 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,200 Speaker 1: little me, but not as main I think I'm going 939 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: to be the one that's like, now we're doing this, 940 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: come on, But at the same time, like I'm not 941 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: gonna be and insensitive like saying take your pills, God, 942 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,000 Speaker 1: take your pills, which is like kind of the rhetoric, 943 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,080 Speaker 1: and she's like, I take mine, and so I was like, Okay, 944 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: she really okay, she's talking about she has mental health 945 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: and she gets as normal, let's go on. But I 946 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: think that's what I enjoyed. I definitely enjoyed the pieces 947 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,720 Speaker 1: of the fan fiction and the pieces of her loving 948 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,280 Speaker 1: this but just loving something so much and feeling childish 949 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,960 Speaker 1: and trying to grow up, going the the the transfer 950 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 1: of being high school student to a college student to 951 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,920 Speaker 1: seeing adults. So it was really nice to see in 952 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,880 Speaker 1: her growing up in those moments. And that's why I 953 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 1: really love that book. I was like, it feels real. 954 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,479 Speaker 1: I see this, I understand this. Even twenty years later, 955 00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,960 Speaker 1: I still I remember that feeling. So it was nice 956 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,800 Speaker 1: to see that as well. But it was a really 957 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 1: well written book. I really caught you. Great job. Recommend 958 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,880 Speaker 1: even if you don't like fan fiction. Recommend. Oh absolutely. 959 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,360 Speaker 1: I mean I think I mentioned this in the past podcast, 960 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 1: but one of my favorite reviews of this book was 961 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: I think a man writing like, how did a straight 962 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,400 Speaker 1: woman learn how to write queer romance so well? Between 963 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,239 Speaker 1: two men? I was like, welcome to fan fiction, sir, 964 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: so I'm very excited to read that saying that it 965 00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: was great. I enjoyed it so much. I can't wait 966 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: to read the other the fan fiction books. And in 967 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,440 Speaker 1: the meantime, as always, if you have any suggestions for 968 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,239 Speaker 1: as listeners for what we should read next, please let 969 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 1: us know. Our email is Stephanie mom Stuff at I 970 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: hurt media dot com. You can find us on Twitter 971 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,919 Speaker 1: at moms to podcast or on Instagram at Stuff We've 972 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,240 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer, 973 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,200 Speaker 1: Chris do you know? Thank you, and thanks to you 974 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,560 Speaker 1: for listening Stuff under toil this protection of I Heart 975 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,920 Speaker 1: Radio former podcast from my Heart Radio. You can visit 976 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,080 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 977 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.