1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Annie and I'm Lauren 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Vogelbaum and today we're doing another UM cookbook author profile, Yes, 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: profiles and deliciousness as I like to as I've coined 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: it on Isabella Beaten. And it has been a long 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: time since we've done a specific person yes samed episode. Yeah, um. 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Previously we have talked about they have names, Julia Child 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: and James Beard. There you go, Yes, those are their names. 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: And this is a person I had previously never heard of, 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: but a couple of you have requested her and it 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: seems like she was a pretty big Yes. I think 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: that anyone who has lived in the UK for any 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: amount of time is thoroughly familiar with the character of her. 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: At any rate. While I was researching her, I opened 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: by conversations with people who were like, what are you researching? 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: And I was like, how familiar are you with UK cookbooks? 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Perhaps Mrs Beaten more people might recognize that, But to 17 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: our question, yes, not what is it? Who is it? Well? 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: Isabella Beaten was a Victorian English era author whose work 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: largely concerned household and kitchen management and included a lot 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: of recipes. Her magnum opus was the Book of Household Management. 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: This was a thousand plus page tome quote comprising information 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: for the mistress, housekeeper, cook, kitchen made, butler, footman, coachman, valet, 23 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: upper and under housemaids, ladies, maid made of all work, 24 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: laundry made, nurse and nurse made monthly, wet and sick nurses, etcetera, etcetera. 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: Also Sam's Harry Medical and Legal Memoranda semi colon with 26 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: a history of the origin, properties and uses of all 27 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: things connected with home life and comfort. So it covered 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: a lot. That was the subtitle of the book. It 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: was like on the front page, I love it um. Yes, 30 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: this is a book about how to be a middle 31 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: class early Victorian early to Victorian era woman. Um written 32 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: by someone who was actually very modern and fashionable in 33 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: her time, and as such it's just fabulously telling about 34 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: what life was like for a few segments of folks 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: back then, middle class women certainly, but also people working 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: as servants in that sort of household, and various folks 37 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: involved in food production and both colonizers and the colonized 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: in England's empire. As the recipes included UM some two 39 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: thousand recipes by the way. They show how food ways 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: were changing in this era of industrialization and the rapidly 41 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: expanding technology and travel and city living that went with 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: all of that. So what just a little bit. It's 43 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: a really fascinating thing to flip through. Oh yeah, yeah, 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: it's very illuminating as to the time and the concerns 45 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: of that time. Let's speaking of time, let's go back 46 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: in history and talk about Isabella Beaton's history. Yes, she 47 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: was born Isabella Mary Mason in London on March twelfth, 48 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: eighty six, as the daughter of Benjamin Mason and Elizabeth Jerem. 49 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: Her father died when she was young, and her mother 50 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: remarried a widower named Henry Dorling, who had four children 51 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: from his previous marriage. Dorling was the clerk of a 52 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: race course and they moved to Epsom, Surrey, which is 53 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: Harry Potter's neck. That's everything I know, Harry Potter fact 54 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: of the episode. Yes, gotta have one for what was 55 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: expected and the norm at the time. Isabella was well 56 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: educated compared to other women. She studied music and language 57 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: in Heidelberg, Germany from eighteen fifty one to eighteen five three, 58 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: and during those two years she mastered the piano and 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: took some lessons from a pastry maker and confectioner. She 60 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: participated in fitting sessions with the London dressmaker. She was 61 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: getting all kinds of experience. She was also the oldest 62 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: of twenty one siblings. That's that's it's more than two. 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: I can't understand it either. Good brief. I had trouble 64 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: with my two siblings and this gave her a lot 65 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: of what would become relevant experience in household management. I'm 66 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: sure it did. She got her start writing in six 67 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: after marrying a rich publisher by the name of Samuel Beaton. 68 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: From the things I read, he was a super ambitious, 69 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: very high strung individual. This is like old timey gossip, 70 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: but I saw that in a couple of places description 71 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: of him. He did not get along with isabella stepfather, 72 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: Henry Dorling, who by this time was involved in the 73 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: nascent government of Surrey, a printing business, and the National 74 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: Derby Festival because of their rocky relationship. The rocky relationship 75 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: between her stepfather and Samuel um their courtship. Samuel and 76 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: Isabella's courtship took place mostly via letter. Sam owned and edited, 77 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: among other publications, a monthly periodical called The English Woman's 78 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: Domestic Magazine, and Isabella started out her work for the 79 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: magazine translating novels from French to English for serialization. Isabella 80 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: started writing a column for it in eighteen fifty seven 81 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: called Cookery, Pickling and Preserving, And apparently her first recipe 82 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: was not a success. She either forgot to mention how 83 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: much flower is supposed to go in or she like 84 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: left out the fact that you should probably add eggs. Uh. 85 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: Something was wrong with it. And her good sponge cake 86 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: was not good and she printed an apology about it 87 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: in the tissue, An apology for a bad sponge cake. 88 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: If this was a comic book, I bet this is 89 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: like the flashback scene to how she got her start, 90 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: Like never again, What can I do to prevent this 91 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: from ever happening again? Yeah? By all accounts, like, she 92 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: wasn't really fond of or good at cooking, but she 93 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: was great at writing and uh, And the column became 94 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: very popular among the magazine's readers. Off of that success, 95 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: her husband got the idea for a men's only magazine 96 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: called The Boys Owned Magazine, which he launched with the 97 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: help of Isabella. She also helped him expand printing Christmas annuals, 98 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: guides and dictionaries. In eighteen fifty eight, Isabella opened a 99 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: soup kitchen to help provide food to poor children, and 100 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: by eighteen sixty she had taken over as editor of 101 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: Englishwoman's Domestic magazine from Sam, and the two of them 102 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: had a kid. They were living in Pinner, which is 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: a suburb of sorts, kind of like twelve miles outside 104 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: of London, and Isabelle and Sam commune did into the 105 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: city daily, leaving their kid at home. She was like 106 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: probably the only middle class woman like in the first 107 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: class train carriage going in in the mornings. Wow. And 108 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: this about brings us to her her seminal work, the 109 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: one she's most known for. But first it brings us 110 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: to a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 111 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you okay, 112 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: so yes. The book that she is most known for, 113 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: as we said at the top, Mrs Beaton's Book of 114 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: Household Management came out in eighteen sixty one, when she 115 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: was twenty five years old. Huh. It was collected from 116 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: two years worth of monthly periodicals published as a supplement 117 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: to Englishwoman's Domestic beginning in eighteen fifty nine, including recipes 118 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: solicited from readers. Isabella took these pieces from The English 119 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: Woman's to Domestic magazine and put them together with chapters 120 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: from a doctor and a lawyer to make in one thousand, 121 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: one hundred and twelve page book, Instant Gossis sixty thod 122 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: copies sold in the first year. By eight sixty eight, 123 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: two million copies had been sold. Critics praised it too. 124 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: After this book came out, she became known as Mrs Beaton, 125 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: and it was meant to be a guide. The book 126 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: was in the rapidly growing and aspiring middle class of 127 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the Victorian era. According to John Wagner, editor of the 128 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,599 Speaker 1: book The Voices of Victorian England quote, by the eighteen fifties, 129 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: middle class wise were expected to frugally and efficiently run 130 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: their husband's households, and thus had to be skilled in 131 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: such tasks as hiring, firing and supervising servants, planning on 132 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: cooking meals, dealing with tradesmen, and teaching, nursing and disciplining children. 133 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: Because many girls were no longer automatically learn learning these 134 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: skills from their mothers, there existed a need for a 135 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: practical handbook on household management, which the Beatens recognized and 136 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: sought to meet. It's likely that she and Sam decided 137 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: to create household Management to to capitalize on this growing 138 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: market more than out of like particular personal expertise. Social 139 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: and economic changes at the time had given rise to 140 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: this expanding and upwardly mobile middle class, and within that 141 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: middle class, there is an expectation that young women um 142 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: basically be fun at parties, uh, you know, like no 143 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: one instrument, no a second language, like be well right 144 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: enough to carry on a conversation about contemporary arts and culture. 145 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: And so instead of like just learning how to run 146 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: a household is like their grandmothers might have, they were 147 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: busy learning all this other stuff. People were also increasingly 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: moving to towns and cities rather than staying out in 149 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: the country, and women were more likely therefore to move 150 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: away from home when they got married. Their lives and 151 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: their households in town were probably very different than their 152 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: mother's lives. The households had been so again, like women 153 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: didn't have the social support the previous generations had had, 154 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: and and people in general were becoming less connected to 155 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: these sources of their food. Yeah, lots of things going on. 156 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: I have this very vague memory as a kid of 157 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: watching this like twenty minute cartoon and it was supposed 158 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: to teach you how to be a luti, but in 159 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: this kind of sense, like balance a book on your 160 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: head and drink tea and things like that, and this 161 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: whole I haven't been able to remember what it was, um, 162 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: but I keep I can visualize it. I remember thinking 163 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: there's no way I would ever, ever, ever, ever be 164 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: able to do that. But I was kind of fascinated 165 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: by it as a as a child. Look at these 166 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: women books and lads and drinking tea. Huh. Anyway, from 167 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: the book consuming culture in the long nineteenth century, any 168 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: woman who felt her position to be unimportant and useless 169 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: could be persuaded by the strength of Mrs Beaton's rhetoric. 170 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: The mistress is the first and last, the alpha and 171 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: omega in the government of her establishment, and it is 172 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: by her conduct that its whole internal policy is regulated. 173 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: Those are quotes directly from household Management. Yeah. In her 174 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: opening sentence, Mrs Beaton compares the mistress of the house 175 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: to a quote commander of an army who attains the 176 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: highest rank of the female character when she enters into 177 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: knowledge of household duties. Oh there's a lot there, Yes, 178 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: commander of an army, and that army that you're commanding. 179 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: As that commander, you are the highest possible rank of 180 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: all of all ladies. Yep, not that. If that's what 181 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: you're into doing, that's I mean, do it. But goodness, 182 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: migracious that I'm glad for feminism. Uh not all of 183 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: her readers would have been to afford a whole team 184 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: of servants, but the book also contained instructions for housemaids 185 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: that helpfully could be carried out by the reader as well, 186 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: all while a hiding the fact um of such a 187 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: lack of help from nosy neighbors and be getting a 188 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: peek at the kind of near mythological upper classes leisurely life. Ah. 189 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: Another quote, this one some advice from the book. Early 190 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: rising is one of the most essential qualities which enter 191 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: into good household management, as it is not only the 192 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: parent of health, but of innumerable other advantages. Indeed, when 193 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: a mistress is an early riser, it is almost certain 194 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 1: that her house will be orderly and well managed. On 195 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: the contrary, if she remained in bed till a late 196 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: hour then the domestics, who, as we have before observed, 197 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: invariably partakes somewhat of their mistress's character, will surely become sluggards. 198 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: I would have been so screwed. Oh heck, well, the 199 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: book did place like a well running household, sort of 200 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: like a vanguard against the potential moral decay of the 201 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: changing times. Very powerful stuff. And just to go a 202 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: little bit further into what was in this book, it 203 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: had recipes, it had advice on household management, ch'll care, entertainment, etiquette, 204 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: all that stuff that we said at the top. One 205 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: of my favorite things is it adds stuff about, um, 206 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: the validity or not of the I oh you yeah, 207 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: a whole bit in the legal section about that I 208 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: as a child. This is terrible and I don't agree 209 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,599 Speaker 1: with it anymore. But I used to give I O 210 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: use to my brothers for their birthday, but they never 211 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: gave me anything. So at least you thought about it. Yeah, 212 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: And if they like followed up, I think they just 213 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: didn't want to hang out with me because I'd be like, 214 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: I owe you video game playing session and I really 215 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: just want to play video games and they were like no, Well, 216 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: I still remember that brothers who don't listen to this show. Um. 217 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons this book was such a 218 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: huge deal has to do with how it was laid out. 219 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: The format of the recipes, with ingredients, measurements and instructions, 220 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: cooking times and techniques, prices, and a thorough index that 221 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: is commonplace to us was revolutionary back then. It was 222 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: one of the first of its kind, and it changed 223 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: cookbooks forever. To this day, cookbooks are laid out that way. 224 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: At the time, people called the book Mrs Beaton's cookbook. 225 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: Most of the recipes were also illustrated, with colored engravings 226 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: on almost every page, which helped out to you know, 227 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: see what it was supposed to look like at the end. Yeah, 228 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: always very helpful. She had never had to do the 229 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: cooking herself, so in preparation for this book, she tested 230 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: out a recipe a day and one of the recipe 231 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: names that caught my eye gave me a cool boiled 232 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: sea gale boiled see kale. Okay, I don't know what 233 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: that means. Yeah. She mainly collected the recipes from classic 234 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: cookery books dating back to the six hundreds, along with 235 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: from a few contemporary authors, and yes, you can call 236 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: this plagiarism. That's essentially what it is. But yeah, let's 237 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: talk more about some of those recipes. Half pay pudding, 238 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: what hashed partridges, bread soup, collared pig's face. Oh oh, 239 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: I'm interested in that one because I have two ideas 240 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: of what it could be and I want to know 241 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: if it's one of those are neither I, um, perhaps 242 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: upsettingly did not actually read the recipe. I just like 243 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: saw the name and was like, there you go, it's 244 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: a pretty intriguing name. It is it is. We'll have 245 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: to investigate further. Uh. One recipe that was pointed out 246 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: as being particularly interesting by a history teacher, Um one 247 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: Amanda Herbert is for mango chutney. And remember this is 248 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, okay um. And it calls for in 249 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: precise weight measurements, which was again new and in recipes 250 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: at the time. Uh, sugar, salt, garlic, onions, powdered ginger, 251 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: dried chilies, mustard seed, pitted raisins, vinegar, and sour apples. 252 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: Notice that it doesn't call for any mangoes because you 253 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to get mangoes in England at 254 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: the notice. All of that spice that goes into it 255 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: that you know, which kind of defies a lot of 256 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: modern stereotypes about English food and especially like older stodgy 257 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: English food or what we consider that to be. Notice 258 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: this is a Bengalese recipe shared during a time of 259 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: enormous strife between the British and the peoples of the 260 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: Indian subcontinent. The recipe text mentions that quote, this chutney 261 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: is very superior to any which can be bought, and 262 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: one trial will prove it to be delicious. Like. Notice 263 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: how this indicates that store bought chutneys were readily available, 264 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: and that Beaten was also promoting like a homemade versus 265 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: store bought mentality, which speaks to contemporary ideas about the 266 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: industrialization of food, like a little bit of like romanticism 267 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: about like bring it back into the home, make it yourself. Yeah, 268 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: thinking back to the roots of it. That is really 269 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: really interesting. Um Beaten also encouraged using seasonal ingredients over 270 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: more expensive or commercially preserved products, and and of kind 271 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: treatment to farm animals. Um I had to include this 272 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: quote about chickens. Oh it's so good, Okay of chickens, 273 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: She wrote that you can clip a chicken's wings, but 274 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: you will not erase from his memory that he is 275 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: a foul and that his proper sphere is the open air. 276 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: If he likewise reflects that he is an ill used foul, 277 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: a prison bird, he will then come to the conclusion 278 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: that there's not the least use under such circumstances for 279 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: his existence. And you must admit that the decision is 280 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: only lot goal natural. That's deep stuff. Whoa let let 281 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: let chickens run free range? Man? Indeed, Mrs Beaton says, yeah, 282 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: otherwise they'll get depressed. Yes, I'm sure, as what we all. 283 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: The book also encouraged smart incorporation of leftovers into future meals, 284 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: providing weekly meal plans to make full use of a budget. 285 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: And she also tended to include like a price per 286 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: serving with each recipe and labeled right at the top, 287 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: whether they tended to be rich or like economical. Oh yeah, 288 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: I always appreciate that stuff, and it's included in recipes totally. Yeah. 289 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: I hate it when I'm like seventeen items in and 290 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,239 Speaker 1: it's like, now add seventeen pounds of saffron and I'm like, 291 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: oh yeah, Or the moment when you put something in 292 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: the oven and you realize you forgot I'm the best 293 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: at that, me too. Unfortunately it's a good thing. We 294 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: are on a show about food, the science and culture, 295 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: not not a cooking show. Not a cooking show. No, 296 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: we never claimed to be a good cooks. Isabella Beaton's 297 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: husband launched a ladies paper called The Queen. It was 298 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: published weekly and it contained information about London's high society 299 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: and social events. It also came with advice for the 300 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: intended female audience. After Isabella took a trip to Paris, 301 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: she was able to include articles about the French fashion 302 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: scene as well. And this just about brings us to us. 303 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: Sadly the end of Isabella's life, Um, But the book 304 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: and her character would live on. And we'll get it 305 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 1: to that as soon as we get back from one 306 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: more quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 307 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Beaten died 308 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 1: after a complication from the birth of her fourth child 309 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: on February six. She was years old, so young, um. 310 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: According to one biography, The Short Life and Long Times 311 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: of Mrs Beaten, by one Catherine Hughes, it was an infection, 312 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: probably caused by the attending doctor at the birth, failing 313 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: to wash his hands properly. Ah, women's health care. Let's 314 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 1: let's all get more of that. It's pretty great. Um. 315 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: Her husband attempted to keep the news of her death 316 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: under wraps so he could keep publishing stuff under her name, 317 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: but his attempt did not work, and the news leaked 318 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: out within a few weeks. Of her children, the first 319 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: who died before reaching three years of age. There's a 320 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: long standing family rumor um confirmed by some of Isabella's biographers, 321 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: that that Sam had contracted syphilis before their marriage and 322 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: passed it to Isabella, which could explain those early child 323 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: deaths um and also gossip that Isabella had gone through 324 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: a number of miscarriages. Sam, by the way, went into 325 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: a steep decline after the eighteen sixties, facing financial difficulties 326 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: and physical and mental illness, further bolstering the whole syphilist theory. Um. 327 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: The Englishwoman's Domestic magazine got a little bit ribald, did 328 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: it really? Yeah? I will take your word for it. 329 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: It's I it's it's stuff that I honestly can't repeat 330 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: on air. So my goodness, Victorians, Victorians. There are other 331 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: two sons, orchard Beaten and Mason Moss went on to 332 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: make their own successes. Orchard joined the army and Mason 333 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: went into publishing and then journalism, and then founded and 334 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: became president of a paper mill called Anglo Newfoundland Development Company. 335 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: During the height of war, this company kept the supply 336 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: of paper for the daily mail stock Good Job and 337 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 1: the Book of Household Management. Mrs Beaton's Book of Household 338 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: Management was updated over the years, first by Sam and 339 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: later other editors, to include advice on a new household 340 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: technologies gas ovens, refrigerators, and to update the recipes to 341 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: fit changing tastes and fashions. By there was a chapter 342 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: on the science of cookery, including a breakdown of the 343 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: macronutrients that people need and how much of them common 344 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: foods contain. By the Edwardian era, the recipes became heavier 345 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: and blander and uh with the changing times. The text 346 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: even acknowledged that a middle class woman might need to 347 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: run her household with a minimum of servants, just a minimum, 348 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: a minimum m hmm. To this day, Mrs Beaton's cookbook 349 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: remains a best seller. I read at some point it 350 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: was second only to the Bible. The original version is 351 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: available online as part of the public domain, and I 352 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: asked her ed in more than one place, that the 353 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: importance of this book cannot be overstated when it comes 354 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: to authors writing something set in the Victorian era. Oh, 355 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: I absolutely believe it. Yeah, yeah, if you're writing in 356 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: that area'all. If you have not already, please get read it. 357 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: Great resource for you. While Mrs Beaton's cookbook was revolutionary, 358 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: it was not the first cookbook by far, not really 359 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: even the first of its type. UM. Eliza Acton's Cookery 360 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: for Private Families came out in eighty five, and French 361 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: chef's Alexis Soys The Modern Housewife came out in one. 362 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: Beaten borrowed plagiarized heavily from these without citation um, along 363 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: with works from other folks like Charles Frank Telly and 364 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Raffled. But Sam and other editors later kept this 365 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: image of Mrs Beaton alive um, and although the news 366 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: of her death had leaked, like published shares of future 367 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: editions just generally didn't like mention it and would write 368 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: prefaces for the books from her point of view. From 369 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: this increasingly like non Isabella related like like kind of 370 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: like like stalwarts like like matronly. This is Beaten point 371 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: of view. After the folks who had acquired the rights 372 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: to the Beaten name started licensing it to food manufacturers, 373 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: and they're also still publishing under her name all kinds 374 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: of spinoff books. Microwaving with Mrs Beaten. Mrs Beaton's healthy 375 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: eating is the healthy eating how she's managed to survive 376 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: and keep putting out these books so long. Oh, you 377 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: gotta eat your veggies if you want to concentrate on editing. 378 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: I do love microwaving with Mrs It's very sweet, it 379 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: really is. In the year two thousand, Oxford World's Classics 380 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: released an addition of Household Management. And this is an 381 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: Oxford imprint that publishes like comprehensive and definitive editions of 382 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: globally important literature. So I really love that it made 383 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: the list. Um, the editor of that edition, one at 384 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: Nicola Humble, pointed out that the book quote tells of 385 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: a culture caught between the old world and the new, 386 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: poised between modernity and nostalgia, of kitchens where meat is 387 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: still roasted over spits over open fires, but which contained 388 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: many of the commercial bottled sauces and condiments we take 389 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: for granted today. It's medical chapters offer instructions for the 390 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: application of leeches, alongside advice about vaccination. So Great, So Wild. Um. 391 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: BBC two aired an hour long special on the life 392 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: and times of Mrs Beaten, written and hosted by Sophie Doll. 393 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: You can look that up if you'd like to. And uh, 394 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: that's about what we've got about Isabella Beaten. Our profile 395 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:56,239 Speaker 1: of deliciousness, case closed, fascinating stuff. Yeah yeah, and if 396 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: you if you want to read more. Um that biography 397 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: I mentioned a minute ago, the name the the Short 398 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: Life and Long Times of Isabella Beaten. Um, yeah, it 399 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: seems like I haven't. I've only read passages from it, 400 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: but it seems really cool. So if you're if you're 401 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: into it, check it out. You know, you can go 402 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: right now and grab a copy of the original book 403 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: on Project Gutenberger, you know, anything like that. It's out 404 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: there for you. It's out there for you to find. 405 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, now that we've reached the end 406 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: of this episode, it means we have reached norm there's 407 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: a Pinkies up listener mail, Pinki's Up teatime listener mail. Yeah, 408 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: I hope that came through I'm sure it did. I 409 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: have no doubt in my mind. Kindall wrote I'm writing 410 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: you just after the holidays and thought I would share 411 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: a family tradition my dad started in two thousand one. 412 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: Every year, my dad picks a country to do Christmas from. 413 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: He started with a traditional Dickens Christmas and brought out 414 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: a plum. Putting on fire made quite an impression. I 415 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: am sure it did. From there he moved to different countries, 416 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: including France with lets or the Thirteen desserts, Italy features 417 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: of beast or fish, Samoa with grilled fish and a 418 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: rose pig, and this year was Ireland with corned beef 419 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: or boxed tie or boxed tea I can't remember the 420 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: pronunciation of that, and stinging nettle soup. He also throws 421 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: in information about the traditions of each country. For example, 422 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: in Sweden, the country sits down at three in the 423 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: afternoon for a Disney program of several cartoons that has 424 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: played every year since the sixties. It's always a fun 425 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: way to learn something new and expand our palette, and 426 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: of course spend some family time together. I love this. Yeah, 427 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: that sounds so it's just fun. This is like right 428 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: up my alley. Oh yeah, yeah, no, this is totally 429 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: like and Annie's eyes are gleaming. Yes. Maybe next year, 430 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: I'll I'll do this with my my friend. I don't 431 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: think my family would be on board, and you might 432 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: have gotten the suspicion they trying these things. But my 433 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: friends I could get them to go along with this. Yeah, totally, 434 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: Emma wrote, I got a big kick out of hearing 435 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: you guys talk about the lacka Hamantash debate at the 436 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: University of Chicago. As a U Chicago grad, I've been 437 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: to the debate a bunch of times that I can 438 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: verify that it is a great time. Although it started 439 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: as a small gathering in the Hell Hell Center, today 440 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: it happens at the school's main auditorium and over a 441 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: thousand people usually attend. Professors do indeed wear their full robes, 442 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: like what you'd see them wear at a graduation ceremony, 443 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: and they come up with the most delightfully wacky arguments 444 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: to support their position. I've seen a physicist show videos 445 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: of him launching both foods out of some sort of 446 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: homemade contraption to determine which was more aerodynamic. Mathematician used 447 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: fractals to transform the outline of a hamantash into a latka, 448 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: and the theater director direct a literal rousing chorus complete 449 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: with singers and dancers in favor of the hamantash. People 450 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: also share personal stories, site great philosophers, and generally go 451 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: all out. The whole event is kicked off with a 452 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: perform by the school's Jewish a capella group, Rhythm and Jews, 453 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: which which is a great name but every reports I 454 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: was a part of, though I am not Jewish, and 455 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: ends with everyone voting for which food they now believe 456 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: to be the best as they leave the auditorium, and 457 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: then having some free luccas and hamantashon outside. It was 458 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: always one of my favorite events during undergrad. This sounds amazing, 459 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: so so good. We have to find our way then, yeah, 460 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: I think, I mean a, we should just go to Chicago, 461 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: because we should go to Chicago. I've never been to Chicago. Oh. 462 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: I love Chicago. It's one of my favorite museums of 463 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: all time. Oh yeah, which one? Okay? I only say 464 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: this because I was speaking to someone from Chicago and 465 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: she was like, do you mean this one or this one? 466 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Because there's two very similarly named ones. I think it's 467 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: the Museum of Science and Industry, but there's two apparently 468 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: that have very very similar names. It's the one that's 469 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: meant for children. The I love it. It's hands on, 470 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: you get to like try experiments. That's great. Yeah, you're 471 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: so wrong with that. Okay. Also for the food at 472 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: that museum, for sure. Yes, um, more and more field trips. 473 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: We're just racking them up. Um okay. Thanks to both 474 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: of them for writing in. If you would like to 475 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: write to us, you can. Our email is hello at 476 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: saber pod dot com. We're also on social media. You 477 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at sabor Pod. 478 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: We hope to hear from you. Thank you, as always 479 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: to our superproducers Andrew Howard and Dylan Fagan. Thank you 480 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: to you for listening, and we hope that lots more 481 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: good things are coming your way.