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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous little teenage girl

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Speaker 1: cheerleader dead on a carnival cruise ship tonight, the FBI

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Speaker 1: joining the investigation. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Eighteen year old Anna Kapner, a brilliant straight A student

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Speaker 2: from Titusville, Florida, embarks on what is meant to be

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Speaker 2: a celebratory cruise, marking the end of her high school journey.

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Speaker 2: This trip is supposed to be a joyful escape. Unaware

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Speaker 2: of what is to come.

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Speaker 1: This little girl was a high school cheerleading star, a

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Speaker 1: star in so many ways. She had all as she

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Speaker 1: was already set to go into the military, had already

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Speaker 1: spoken to recruiters, had her mind made up to serve

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Speaker 1: her country. Now she's dead on a cruise ship. You know,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm the crazy on here. Straight out to Susan

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Speaker 1: Hendricks joining us. You know her well investigative journalist who

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Speaker 1: shot to fame on hl N and then her close

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Speaker 1: coverage of the Delphi double murder. She even wrote a

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Speaker 1: book in all her spare time, Down the Hill, My

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Speaker 1: Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi Susan Hendricks. This

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Speaker 1: little girl should be on her way to college or

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Speaker 1: into the military. How is it so many people keep

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Speaker 1: dropping dead on cruise ships. Look at her, She's a baby.

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Speaker 3: Yeah she is.

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Speaker 4: And I was looking through her TikTok last night. I

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Speaker 4: have a daughter around the same age, and you see

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Speaker 4: just how young and full of life she was, with

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Speaker 4: the dances going on this cruise, with her grandmother loving

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Speaker 4: to do that. I even saw on her TikToker dancing

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Speaker 4: with her grandmother, full of life, her grandmother calling her

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Speaker 4: Anna Banana, so much ahead of her, And really what happened?

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Speaker 4: That's what we're trying to piece together.

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Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks. We have taken the twins on a lot

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Speaker 1: of cruises, okay, like four five Disney cruises. That's my comparison,

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Speaker 1: a Disney cruise where everything is in a controlled environment.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could. I wouldn't, but you could let

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Speaker 1: your children run wild. But I just don't understand how

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Speaker 1: a young teen girl ends up dead and we can't

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Speaker 1: even get the right time of death. Isn't it true,

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Speaker 1: Susan Hendrix, that at first we were all told this

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Speaker 1: little girl died eleven eight, But now we're learning they

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Speaker 1: even had the date wrong by twenty four hours. She

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Speaker 1: died eleven seven, around eleven seventeen A m. Isn't that true?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And the cruise ship docked back when it was supposed

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Speaker 4: to on Saturday. So we're learning now you're right, eleven

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Speaker 4: seventeen on Friday. We're trying to piece together exactly what happened.

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Speaker 4: But it seemed like she loved cruises. She was excited

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Speaker 4: to go. They were looking forward to it. How did

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Speaker 4: she end up dead?

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Speaker 3: What happened to her?

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Speaker 4: It feels like everyone's tight lipt.

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Speaker 1: Well, i'll tell you the FBI on it. Now. That's

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Speaker 1: never a good thing when you have the FBI picking

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Speaker 1: through your trash and going over your movements. Joining me

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Speaker 1: there on the scene is private investigator Robert Crispin. He's

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Speaker 1: joining us at the Port of Miami, where so many

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Speaker 1: cruise ships depart, including this one. He is the owner

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Speaker 1: and founder of Crispin Special Investigations. But that's just part

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Speaker 1: of his story. He was with the former Federal Task

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Speaker 1: Force Officer US Department of Justice DEA in that jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: Miami Field Division, former Homicide Crimes against Children, and he's

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Speaker 1: at Crispininvestigations dot Com. Crispin, this is right up your alley,

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Speaker 1: but I can't stress it enough. In a moment, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go to our friend Joe Scott Morgan on this, Robert.

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Speaker 1: They can't I mean, did they know their tail from

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Speaker 1: a hole in the ground a cruise ship investigating a

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Speaker 1: potential homicide and they don't even get the time of

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Speaker 1: death even the day of death right. Do you know

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Speaker 1: how many witnesses are now lost forever because they didn't

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Speaker 1: get the TOD time of death down twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: plus Crispin, who was with her on eleven seven? We

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Speaker 1: don't know what was she doing, what did she eat,

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Speaker 1: what did she drink? Did she leave on a port adventure?

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Speaker 1: It's all gone, Crispin.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, this is why the FBI is involved.

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Speaker 6: And when you get twelve nautical miles off the coast,

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Speaker 6: pretty much up the entire coast, it's international waterway. And

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Speaker 6: the problem is these types of cases, Nancy, an issue

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Speaker 6: for the FBI.

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Speaker 5: Why Because the problem.

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Speaker 6: With these cuse ships are the clime scenes that are

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Speaker 6: moving constantly. If you have evidence that was just rounded out,

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Speaker 6: it's in five thousand feet two that's the problem for the.

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Speaker 1: FBI joining us an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 1: of what we're learning tonight, Straight out to death Investigator,

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Speaker 1: professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, the author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, and you can hear him now

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Speaker 1: on a hit podcast Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. It's a

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Speaker 1: death investigator's nightmare. It's a floating crime scene. How did

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Speaker 1: the little girl die? Who was with her? What time

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Speaker 1: did she die? Not just the cod cause of death,

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Speaker 1: the manner of death. And just like you heard Robert

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Speaker 1: Crispin say accurately, those guests, over five thousand of them

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Speaker 1: on this particular cruise ship have scattered to the four

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Speaker 1: core of the Earth. They weren't all even from the US.

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Speaker 7: So what do you do first, Well, you tried to

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Speaker 7: get access to the area where she was actually living

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Speaker 7: in that cabin that I assumed that she was in

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Speaker 7: there with her grandmother. Bits of evidence that are contained

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Speaker 7: therein all the stuff that was in her baggage. But

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Speaker 7: here's one of the problems, Nancy. Once that stuff is

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Speaker 7: removed out of there, you lose all contexts for the

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Speaker 7: rest of the investigation. Here's another problem. We don't have

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Speaker 7: an established timeline you had mentioned earlier. Has she ingested anything?

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Speaker 7: What kind of meals did she take on board? Who

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Speaker 7: was she hanging out with on the ship? Was there

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Speaker 7: anybody that could have slipped her something at some point

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Speaker 7: in time? Did she have access to alcohol when she's

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Speaker 7: in international waters? So all of this works out to

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Speaker 7: be just an absolute nightmare scenario. The upside here, though,

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Speaker 7: I think, if there is any is that when they

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Speaker 7: put in, they put in to Miami, and Miami Dade

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Speaker 7: has one of the finest medical examiner offices in the country,

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Speaker 7: so they are going to be working this case from

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Speaker 7: a medical legal perspective, and we're talking about toxicology, and

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Speaker 7: we're also talking about a physical examination here because we

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Speaker 7: want to try to rule out, if we can, any

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Speaker 7: kind of trauma that might be there. That's one of

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Speaker 7: the reasons we're waiting. We don't have a cod yet,

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Speaker 7: but they're also waiting on talks, and therein might lie

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Speaker 7: the answers. J.

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Speaker 1: Scott, This is a morbid question, but it must be asked.

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Speaker 1: Where our dead bodies stored on a cruise ship? They

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Speaker 1: actually have a location for.

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Speaker 7: Them, Yeah, they do. Having worked in New Orleans for

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Speaker 7: many years a major port, I work several cases coming

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Speaker 7: off of ships, everything from tankers to cruisers, you name it.

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Speaker 7: Even out on oil platforms. There are locations where bodies

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Speaker 7: can be stored. Sometimes they're referred to as a cool room.

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Speaker 7: Other times I've actually had remains that were placed into

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Speaker 7: a literal deep freeze. And so it's going to vary

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Speaker 7: from uh structure to structure or from platform to platform.

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Speaker 7: With a cruise ship, though, they have a dedicated area

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Speaker 7: most of the time, and that's a big that's a

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Speaker 7: big issue, Nancy, because in the medical legal world, we

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Speaker 7: want to try to put the body into stasis in

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Speaker 7: depth so that you're not going to have or you're

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Speaker 7: gonna you're not going to have any kind of degrading

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Speaker 7: of the remains because that's going to compromise evidence as well,

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Speaker 7: and how well was the body protected. You know, I

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Speaker 7: begin to think about elements like trace evidence. It drives

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Speaker 7: me nuts thinking about this because you're going to have

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Speaker 7: people that are unversed in this area. They're going to

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Speaker 7: be handling her remains and this is your primary bit

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Speaker 7: of evidence here I'm not being disrespectful to the dead,

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Speaker 7: but you know and I know that that's the issue here.

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Speaker 7: You have to protect this body at all costs because

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Speaker 7: they're in lie all of the answers.

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Speaker 1: Just got Morgan joining us death investigator with literally thousands

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Speaker 1: of death investigations under his belt. Scott, you just said

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Speaker 1: the condition of the body. Let's just think for a moment.

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Speaker 1: You know how small the cabins are on these cruise ships.

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Speaker 1: Think of her. She's basically in a tin can in

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Speaker 1: a closed room in the Caribbean hot as h E

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Speaker 1: double l. You know the implications that has for eight

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Speaker 1: dead human body. You lose evidence with every minute that

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Speaker 1: ticks by.

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Speaker 7: Yes, you do. And that's one of the major problems,

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Speaker 7: particularly when you begin to think about her tissues. And

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Speaker 7: just let me kind of lay this out. This is

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Speaker 7: they're going to be three the body in total is

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Speaker 7: going to be examined. Her body will, but there are

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Speaker 7: three major areas you're looking at anatomically here with a

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Speaker 7: person this age that suddenly passes away, the heart, the lungs,

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Speaker 7: and the brain, and so you want to be able

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Speaker 7: to preserve those so that you're not going to have

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Speaker 7: any decomposition or degradation of the body to the point

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Speaker 7: where it's going to compromise any kind of evidence that

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Speaker 7: you can recover that rest therein. That's why it's so

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Speaker 7: important to be able to keep this her remains so

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Speaker 7: that they are as intact as you possibly can until

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Speaker 7: Theme in Miami can retrieve the remains and examine them

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Speaker 7: as they should be examined.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now, Spencer Aarenfeld. He is the lawyer for

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Speaker 1: the family of Dulcy White, another woman that dies at sea.

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Speaker 1: He is known as the cruise ship lawyer, and for

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Speaker 1: a reason, he takes on these seemingly impossible cases and

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Speaker 1: actually wins them, not on behalf of the cruise ship,

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Speaker 1: on behalf of the families. Spencer, I wouldn't trust a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship investigator as far as I could throw them.

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Speaker 1: Not that they're evil people, I mean, for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: they don't even have the right day of death, much

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Speaker 1: less time of death. We had to get a medical

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Speaker 1: examiner in the States to give me a time of death.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, if they can't even do that, did

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Speaker 1: you hear Joe Scott Morgan, he's the professor of forensics,

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Speaker 1: describing what all has been lost because if they're ineptness Nancy.

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Speaker 8: The security officers on cruise ships are really nothing more

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Speaker 8: than glorified mall cops. Most of them have little to

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Speaker 8: no training in law enforcement, in forensics and investigation. This

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Speaker 8: is one of the primary problems that people have on

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Speaker 8: cruise ships is they expect that they're actually being guarded

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Speaker 8: by a police level security force. These are men and

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Speaker 8: women primarily from the Philippines, from Indonesia, who could have

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Speaker 8: been a bartender, could have been a dishwasher, but they

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Speaker 8: got a job on the security.

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Speaker 4: Stop.

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Speaker 1: Please stop. Okay, my ears are bleeding. You've made my

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Speaker 1: ears bleed. Did you say the cruise ship investigators were

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Speaker 1: a bartender back on the island and now they're the

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Speaker 1: investigator on the cruise ship.

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Speaker 8: The entire training they've had in being a security guard

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Speaker 8: is generally the training that the cruise line gives them.

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Speaker 8: They're recruited in these countries and they apply for different

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Speaker 8: positions and that they get a job in security, then

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Speaker 8: the cruise line trains them themselves. They usually have no

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Speaker 8: military part.

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Speaker 1: You're killing me. You just gagged me. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I just opened a whole can of worms.

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Speaker 1: Right there, you're hearing Spencer Aaronfeld talking the cruise ship

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Speaker 1: lawyer Joe Scott. Do you know how hard I had

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Speaker 1: to train to go on crime scenes as a district

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Speaker 1: attorney and assistant district attorney. How hard did you have

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Speaker 1: to train to be a death investigator? And now I

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Speaker 1: got a bouncer from some bar from the Caribbean, and

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Speaker 1: that's the cruise ship security. That's the investigator.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and here's another piece. If you like that one,

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Speaker 7: let me give you this one as well. We work

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Speaker 7: in a world now in forensic science where we're talking

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Speaker 7: about molecular evidence. Now, so to my colleague's earlier point,

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Speaker 7: where there's no manner of death ruled at this point

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Speaker 7: in time. If we're talking about a homicide here, we

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Speaker 7: start to get off in areas like DNA. We treat

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Speaker 7: scenes many times now, Nancy, those of us that are professionals,

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Speaker 7: as if we're going into surgery. You know, you see

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Speaker 7: us in the taiex suits with the hoods on and

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Speaker 7: the gloves and the booties and the mask and all that. Well,

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Speaker 7: there's a reason we do that. It's because the evidence

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Speaker 7: many times is very very fragile, and when you don't

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Speaker 7: when you don't have specific evidence at a scene that's

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Speaker 7: going to point o something, just like Comer, just like Coburg.

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Speaker 1: No eyewitnesses, no confession, nothing, no fingerprints, no footprints, no nothing.

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Speaker 1: And if it had not been for molecular forensic evidence,

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Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide would have gone unsolved. There was no motive,

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Speaker 1: There was no connection that we knew of between Coburger

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Speaker 1: and his four victims. The state was just hanging in

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Speaker 1: the wind. We were gone until people like you came

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Speaker 1: in with molecular evidence. Think about it, The evidence was

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Speaker 1: found on the snap of the hilt of a knife

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Speaker 1: and got him dead in the water because of molecular evidence.

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Speaker 1: There is no way that investigators on this cruise ship

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Speaker 1: got molecular evidence.

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Speaker 7: No. I just hope that they didn't compromise those things

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Speaker 7: that are there. Sometimes it's better just to keep your

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Speaker 7: hands off. But we know that that didn't happen because

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Speaker 7: in fact, they have to take care of the body.

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Speaker 7: That goes back to what you said earlier about play

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Speaker 7: the body in a location that is at minimum cool,

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Speaker 7: hopefully colder more like what we have actually in the morgue,

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Speaker 7: because at that point time we can cease or slow

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Speaker 7: down the process of decomposition. And also it secures the body.

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Speaker 7: How do I know where her remains were on that ship?

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Speaker 7: That other people didn't have access to her body? You know,

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Speaker 7: you go to the m's office and look, you're going

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Speaker 7: to have to pass through several layers or or gates

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Speaker 7: of security in order to get access to a body.

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Speaker 7: You're talking about a rolling city here with five thousand occupants,

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Speaker 7: just like our colleague said earlier, that are in the wind.

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Speaker 7: They're gone. Now, Nancy, how are you going to track

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Speaker 7: them down?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 1: May to Spencer Erinfield the cruise ship lawyer, Spencer, let

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Speaker 1: me tell a story about what happened to us on

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Speaker 1: a Disney cruise through no fault of Disney. So you know,

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Speaker 1: they have like a tween hangout. I believe it's called

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Speaker 1: the Edge, which is edgy, where like if you're eleven

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Speaker 1: ten to say fourteen, you can go there and pretend

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Speaker 1: you're eighteen, right, and you play games. Believe me, I

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Speaker 1: stoop the whole thing out. They play games, they watch

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Speaker 1: Disney movies of course, and they have like kool aid

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Speaker 1: and pretzels, and there is a guard at the door.

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Speaker 1: The only entry exit. I checked the whole thing out.

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Speaker 1: So we went on another Disney cruise and John Lucy

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Speaker 1: wanted to come back from the edge and come to

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Speaker 1: the room. So I was already in my pajamas, shorts

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Speaker 1: and a T shirt and went to edge to go

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Speaker 1: get her. I bring her back with strict instructions to

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Speaker 1: John David, do not leave until I get back. He's like, sure.

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Speaker 1: I go back forty five minutes later, get Lucy all set.

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Speaker 1: He's not there. He was with a little friend from

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Speaker 1: our hometown and they left together. He thought it would

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Speaker 1: be okay, because I always say travel in a group.

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Speaker 1: I was running in my pajama up and down the

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Speaker 1: hallways of the Disney Cruise line, trying to find John David,

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Speaker 1: because you know how fast somebody could have dragged him

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Speaker 1: into one of their rooms, molested him and killed him,

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Speaker 1: just like that, out of all those thousands of rooms.

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Speaker 1: I went berserk. Now, granted, that was all on John David,

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Speaker 1: not on Disney. In fact, we went on another Disney

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Speaker 1: cruise after that that following summer, where I would not

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Speaker 1: I had a handcuffed to me. He could not leave

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Speaker 1: Lucy here, John David here, no matter where they went.

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Speaker 1: I was there, Spencer. This is so wrong, and people

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Speaker 1: wonder why I'm so angry and upset. This is I'm

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Speaker 1: not mad at the investigator who doesn't know what he,

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Speaker 1: she or doing. I'm mad because this is the only

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Speaker 1: thing left that we can do for this little girl.

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Speaker 1: This is it is to solve her case. Spencer.

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Speaker 8: Well, probably Nancy, and I agree with you. The most

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Speaker 8: important evidence for me would be the surveillance video. These

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Speaker 8: cruise lines are wired like casinos from Boust, with high

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Speaker 8: definitions CCTV covering all the common areas, covering the elevators,

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Speaker 8: covering the dining rooms, the pool, the night bull. And

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Speaker 8: my question is where's the CCTV. In my experience, and

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Speaker 8: I've sued Carnival thousands of times, they will either not

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Speaker 8: have all the CCTV or failed to preserve it, which

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Speaker 8: is why I think the FBI boarding the ship the

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Speaker 8: minute it got to Fort Miami was essential for the

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Speaker 8: preservation of the CCTV. They're going to get it off

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Speaker 8: the ship and the FBI will take possession of it

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Speaker 8: before Carnival destroys it, loses it takes over it. I

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Speaker 8: think the cameras are going to tell a lot of the.

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Speaker 9: Story of what happened to her senior year at Temple Christians,

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Speaker 9: and it paints her parking spot to match your favorite

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Speaker 9: movie Clueless and is ecstatic be back on the field

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Speaker 9: cheering for the Lions. Licensed to boat Ann scoobas she

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Speaker 9: enjoys making tiktoks with her friends and brother. Anna plans

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Speaker 9: on joining the military. In fact, she's waiting on the

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Speaker 9: results of her ASVAB testing to determine which jobs will

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Speaker 9: suit her best.

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Speaker 2: Anna's grandparents gift her a spring cruise as an eighteenth

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Speaker 2: birthday gift. Anna enjoys the experience so much she books

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Speaker 2: a six day trip with stops in Oto Rios, Jamaica,

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Speaker 2: the Grand Caymans, and Cosimo, Mexico. Anna Kefner is known

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Speaker 2: for her infectious spirit and love for people, with dreams

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Speaker 2: of serving her community through military service. That's why what

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Speaker 2: happens on her trip devastates all.

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Speaker 7: And know her.

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Speaker 1: How long had this little girl been dead in her

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Speaker 1: room if that's where she was actually found.

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Speaker 10: Lindsay Allison, a passenger staying just down the hall from

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Speaker 10: Anna's room, remembers crew responding to a medical call around

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Speaker 10: eleven am Friday morning.

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Speaker 8: Security never left. They guarded the room very well.

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Speaker 10: Though she doesn't know what happened, Alison can imagine the

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Speaker 10: terror that ensues when your vacation turns into a floating prison.

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Speaker 8: You're out in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 4: You can't go anywhere, you can't get on land, you

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Speaker 4: can't sleep.

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Speaker 10: Early Saturday, the last day of the Horizon's voyage, a

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Speaker 10: passenger is found dead. The cruise ship returns to port,

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Speaker 10: asking passengers to disembark quickly. The FBI now investigating the death.

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Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox thirteenth Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: Another debacle at sea, a case that may never be solved.

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Speaker 1: Now of this little cheerleader eerily reminiscent of the so

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Speaker 1: called Missing Groom, Captain Michael.

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Speaker 3: May I give your attention please, every person may have

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Speaker 3: gone overboard last night.

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Speaker 10: George Smith and his bride spend the night gambling with

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Speaker 10: friends they met on the Royal Caribbeans Brilliance of the Seas.

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Speaker 10: When the ship's casino closes, the group heads to the club,

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Speaker 10: but Jennifer leaves after a drunken argument with George. By

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Speaker 10: the time the club closes at three point thirty, the

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Speaker 10: young men have to carry George back to his room.

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Speaker 10: At four, around four thirty, neighbors here a sickening thud,

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Speaker 10: which investigators believe was George's body slamming against a lifeboat

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Speaker 10: canopy before falling into the ocean below.

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my

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Speaker 1: son was murdered on that cruise ship.

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Speaker 3: There's so much evidence, it's overwhelming.

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Speaker 8: It's just been a complete and awful nightmare for my family.

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Speaker 1: That last bit from our friends at forty eight hours,

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Speaker 1: I personally investigated the George Smith missing groom case. Just

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Speaker 1: Gott Morgan, you also have studied the case. I spoke

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Speaker 1: with his mother, his sister at length, went through all

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Speaker 1: of the evidence. There is no way did you know

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Speaker 1: they tried to climb he fell over the rail when

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Speaker 1: the friends' friends that he just met in the bar

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Speaker 1: that night and they were all drinking absinthe, which you

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Speaker 1: know I believe it's outlawed, and certain jurisdictions so powerful.

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Speaker 1: They left him in his room and the rail to

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Speaker 1: George Smith's balcony was chest high and there were several

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Speaker 1: rails so nobody could just fall over the side. He

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Speaker 1: was thrown overboard and the evidence is overwhelming that he

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Speaker 1: was murdered. I agree with his mother that you just

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Speaker 1: heard speaking. But it's never been solved because everyone scattered.

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Speaker 1: As I said, to the four corners of the earth.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you took a look just at that image of

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Speaker 7: the blood deposition alone. You know, how has that explained?

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Speaker 7: And again, this is another great example of how can

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Speaker 7: the scene be processed or secured? Because I'm not thinking

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Speaker 7: I misspoke when I said processed. I would not expect

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Speaker 7: security on one of the ships to process a scene.

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Speaker 7: But they even understand basic scene security, how you lock

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Speaker 7: down an area once you get there, and you understand

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Speaker 7: the value and how delicate this evidence is, you know,

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Speaker 7: to get back to port in order to allow those

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Speaker 7: that are professionals to work the scene, to interpret the scene.

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Speaker 7: So now you've got a fantastical story about this, this

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Speaker 7: fellow going over this rail that's chest high. These rails

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Speaker 7: are designed this way for a reason. It would take

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Speaker 7: him being propelled in order to get over the side.

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Speaker 7: And so that's that's one of these things. It's a

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Speaker 7: fantastic example of what a potential train wreck these deaths

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Speaker 7: are at sea, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: And of course there had been arguments the night before

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Speaker 1: he had a huge argument with his fiance. Well, they

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Speaker 1: had just gotten married, this is their honeymoon. She Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: I could recall her name, was spotted on cam like

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Speaker 1: sitting in a hallway completely drunk, just you know, had

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Speaker 1: been totally overserved. Long story short. I don't think she

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Speaker 1: had anything to do with his death, but I believe

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Speaker 1: he was murdered potentially by people he was with at

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Speaker 1: the bar that night. And when I say, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, that the real was chest high, that's chest

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Speaker 1: high on me, not on you. Okay, I'm five to

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Speaker 1: one and a half. You're like, what six two or

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Speaker 1: six three, so it would be different. But still it

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Speaker 1: was to a height. He didn't just fall over. He

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Speaker 1: had to be, as you said, propelled. And part of

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Speaker 1: the problem Doctor Angela Arnold with us psychiatrist. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie

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Speaker 1: is the family never will know what happened. And here

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Speaker 1: with this little cheerleader, we see the same thing all

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Speaker 1: over again with Anna terrific Nancy.

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Speaker 3: It's a form of trauma that this family will never

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Speaker 3: be able to get over. That's why, you know, that's

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Speaker 3: why we have funerals and things like this. It's for

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Speaker 3: people to process the death of someone. But if you

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Speaker 3: never ever know what actually happened to that person, you

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Speaker 3: can never fully process their death, and so they will

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Speaker 3: all be traumatized by those in ways that we don't

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Speaker 3: even realize for the rest of their lives. It's true,

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Speaker 3: it's very sad.

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Speaker 2: Anna is mourned by classmates and teachers at Temple Christian.

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Speaker 2: Mister Bruner writes a heartfelt note. Your curiosity, your gentle spirit,

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Speaker 2: and the way you cared for those around you made

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Speaker 2: a lasting impression on me and on everyone who knew you.

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Speaker 2: Anna's family parks her car in the parking spot for

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Speaker 2: the last time. The white key is stacked high with

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Speaker 2: bouquets of Anna's favorite flowers.

434
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: Susan Hendrick is joining US investigative journalists and author. Susan,

435
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: there's something that's so poignant about that photo of her

436
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: car in her little parking spot. Seniors get their own spot,

437
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: and she painted hers after her favorite movie Clueless. Her

438
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: car was still part there and then everyone began putting

439
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: flowers on it, and it reminds me, Susan, you and

440
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: I have both lived in the South. How it's very typical.

441
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: You'll be driving along the interstate and you'll see a

442
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: cross covered in flowers. It's all that's left. The family

443
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: is so bereft. All they can do is go put

444
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: flowers on her car. It's just it's heartbreaking to me.

445
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I see that car, I think of a

446
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 4: teenager with their whole lives ahead of them, and the

447
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: school decided, hey, we're going to keep that car there.

448
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 4: It's staying put for now. And you see all the

449
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 4: memorials that young girl's best friends thinking she was just

450
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: here what happened? And as doctor Arnold was talking and

451
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 4: Joe Scott, I'm thinking, is that the place to commit

452
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: the perfect crime? That floating vessel. I mean, it's blocked off,

453
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 4: it's already back out at sea. Passengers are shuffled off

454
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 4: and there's no answers.

455
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Robert Crisp and is joining us at the Port

456
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: of Miami, the departure spot for all of these cruises

457
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Okay, Robert Crispin, get ready, it's not

458
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: just Anna that dies at sea. Now we've got Dulcy White,

459
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: a loving wife and mom who apparently is overserved, falls

460
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: over the edge and the boat doesn't even go back

461
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: to look for her.

462
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 10: Dulcy White, a loving wife to Terry, a mom of

463
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 10: three nursing patients in West Berlin, New York. When Dulcy's

464
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 10: daughter Meghan suggests they take a girl's trip, Dulcy immediately

465
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 10: suggests a cruise.

466
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 9: Dulci a Meghan decide on a four day Taylor Swift

467
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 9: themed cruise to Nasau and Royal Caribbean's Cocoa Key. The

468
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 9: cruise promises themed efense, friendship bracelet exchanges and a clever

469
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 9: T shirt in my cruise era for fifteen hundred per person.

470
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: I mean to you, Robert Crispin, what could be more

471
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: fun than that? A Taylor Swift theme cruise without all

472
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: all the girls, the young teen girls running around exchanging

473
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: those friendship bracelets, and some grown man I've seen wearing

474
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: the tailor's with her whatever. So much fun, so innocent.

475
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: But the allegation tonight is she was horribly overserved and

476
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: fell overboard and the ship didn't even turn around to

477
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: go find her nothing. They just let her drown. What's

478
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: the likelihood we'll ever gonna find her body?

479
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 5: That's never gonna happen In an open sea in the

480
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 5: middle of nowhere. You know, Nancy.

481
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 6: Everything starts off so exciting and everyone's happy when I

482
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 6: get on this cruise ship. But the problem is when

483
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 6: somebody falls off and the cruise ship pilot does not

484
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 6: turn the vessel around, and Williamson turn and Anderson turn,

485
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 6: that didn't happen. That allegation alone is sickening and it

486
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 6: makes people not want to get out a cruise ship.

487
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 6: God forbid something happens.

488
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 10: Dulcie and Meghan depart Miami on board the Allure of

489
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 10: the Seas. Dulcy decides to sclurge on a drink package

490
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 10: as well, opting for Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package so

491
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 10: she doesn't need to pay for individual drinks.

492
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 9: Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package can cost more than one

493
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 9: hundred dollars per day, not including an eighteen percent gratuity

494
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 9: charged at the end of the cruise.

495
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: Dulcy White eagerly boards the All in On Taylor Swift

496
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: Cruise with her family, expecting to have a wonderful weekend

497
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: filled with all her favorite songs. Little does she know

498
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: this trip will soon turn into a tragedy.

499
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: That's right, it's not just that gorgeous teen girl cheerleader

500
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: Anna Kepner that dies at sea. Now a mom of

501
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: three dead and the boat didn't even turn around to

502
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: try and look for her body. Why joining us an

503
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: all star panel, you know, I just want to be

504
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: clear about something to Robert Crispin, former DEEA former vice.

505
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: That's where this comes in. Ford j who's joining us

506
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: there at the Port of Miami and the States. It's

507
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: against the law to overserve someone who is obviously inebriated.

508
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: What those rules don't apply on a cruise ship, you.

509
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 5: Know, Nancy, You would think it does, but it doesn't.

510
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 6: And sadly enough, even though they're inebriated, they're staggering, their

511
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 6: slurge speech, their bloodshot, watery eyes, they're still getting alcohol served.

512
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 5: Why because they got the wristband on. It's the deluxe

513
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: all you can drink. What happens they get them back

514
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 5: to their room.

515
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 11: They end up dying or something bad, really bad happens

516
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 11: to these people, and there's no accountability, you.

517
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Know, part of it though, Doctor Angie Arnold joining us,

518
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrist. I think when you get on a cruise ship,

519
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: I kind of did it with the twins. Of course,

520
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: we're all teetotalers. Sadly we're not in the party. But

521
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: you think you're safe. You're surrounded by children, adults don't

522
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: get to come like just on their own pervs wandering around,

523
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: I don't think anyway, and you just feel totally insulated,

524
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: especially on a Disney cruise. And I'm wondering if that

525
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: has anything to do with the attitude on cruise ships.

526
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: You think, oh, I can drink as much as I want.

527
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: All have to do is walk to my room.

528
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: Well, Nancy, what I was thinking about was this, once

529
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: a person has had a certain amount to drink, they're

530
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: really not in control of their cognition at some point,

531
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: so they're being overserved. And they really don't realize that

532
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 3: they're being overserved because the alcohol is affecting their brain

533
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 3: so they're no longer capable of making good choices. That's

534
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: why in the United States it's illegal to overserve people.

535
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: So it's really quite a shame because they can ask

536
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: and ask for more, but Nancy, they're not aware of

537
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: what they're doing.

538
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 8: And then something tragic.

539
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: Like this happens Tuesday night. Do we'll see and Meghan

540
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: grabbing drinks along with pizza. Meghan is socializing with other fans,

541
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: doesn't notice her inebriated after ordering drinks back to back.

542
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: By seven point thirty, another passenger has taken note of

543
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: Doolsey's glassy eyed slurring and struggling to maintain balance. The

544
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: concerned passenger escorts Doolsey back to the room.

545
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 10: Megan returns shortly after and is shocked by how intoxicated

546
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 10: her mother is. She's never seen her mother in this

547
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 10: kind of state. The mom and daughter start getting ready

548
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 10: for bed. To save space, the pair leave their suitcases

549
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 10: out on the balcony, so they have to venture out

550
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 10: to grab fresh clothes.

551
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: Nine p forty, Meghan notices Duolsey out on the balcony

552
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: and assumes her mom is grabbing pajamas. When she next looks,

553
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: she sees Doolsey sitting on the railing of the balcony,

554
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: her feet dangling over the edge. Before Meghan can get

555
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: to her, Doolsey slips off the balcony and Megan can't

556
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: catch her as she falls into the water below.

557
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, straight out to the cruise ship. Lawyer,

558
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: Spencer Erenfeld, you're the lawyer for Doulcy White's family. I'm stunned.

559
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: She was served so much she could barely walk. Everybody

560
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: let it happen. Then she falls over board. Her daughter

561
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: races to catch her and couldn't make it. Is it

562
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: true the ship didn't even turn around after the daughter

563
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: raised the alarm.

564
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 8: Well, the case has just been filed, Nancy. We don't

565
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 8: have all of the ship position logs. We don't have

566
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 8: the captain's logs. So I have what the family has

567
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 8: told me, which there was a delay in initiating the

568
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 8: man overboard protocol. But once we start taking depositions and

569
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 8: getting all of the data from the ship, I could

570
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 8: answer that question specifically. But the allegation from the daughter

571
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 8: who watched her mother fall to her death is that

572
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 8: the ship did not stop, did not contact the US

573
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 8: Coast Guard or Bahamian Coast Guard immediately, and did not

574
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 8: initiate rescue efforts timely. But I also wanted to say this, Nancy,

575
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 8: and I've investigated one hundred of man overboard cases. The

576
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 8: common denominator is always alcohol, and in most cases, the

577
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 8: over service of alcohol and cruise line do have a

578
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 8: legal responsibility under federal maritime law to not overserve visibly

579
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 8: intoxicated passengers. The problem is this perfect storm of the

580
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 8: all you can drink drink package encourages people to want

581
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 8: to get their money's worth because they've already prepaid it.

582
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 8: And the crew members are incentivized to serve and keep

583
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 8: serving because that's how they get tips. So the cruise

584
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 8: lines pay these folks below a minimum wage. They're not

585
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 8: subject the federal minimal minimum wage laws, so they're paying

586
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 8: these guys pennies on the pennies per hour. And if

587
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 8: they can get a dollar two dollars five dollars tips

588
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 8: per passenger fifteen times an hour, they're gonna keep serving

589
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 8: and scarming and sport. And it's really a recipe for disaster.

590
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: Crime stories.

591
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 12: With Nancy Grace.

592
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: To Sidney Summer joining US Crime Stories, investigative reporter, what

593
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: about Williamson and Anderson? Those are two distinct maritime maneuvers

594
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: that are to be employed when someone is a quote

595
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: man overboard. Right.

596
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 12: That obviously did not happen in this case. It feels

597
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 12: like Royal Caribbean did nothing to try and save Doolcy.

598
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 12: Despite Meghan's quick report of what happened to her mom.

599
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 12: Meghan says she felt hopeless and that no one did

600
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 12: anything in any timely manner. After she reported her mom

601
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 12: fell overboard.

602
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 10: Megan immediately reports her mother's fall overboard to crew members,

603
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 10: but the ship does not perform a Williamson or Anderson

604
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 10: turn to return to the man overboard location, and no

605
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 10: rescue boats are launched. The crew doesn't even immediately report

606
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 10: Dulcie missing, though her fall was caught on the ship's cameras. Eventually,

607
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 10: cruise from the Royal Bahamas Defense Force and the US

608
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 10: Coast Guard search for dulci employing helicopters, but Dulcie's body

609
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 10: is not recovered.

610
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 13: She did overdo it, just trying to maybe get her

611
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 13: money is worth. I don't know. It saddens me that

612
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 13: that is my last memory of her.

613
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: From CBS, Dulce White falls from the balcony after allegedly

614
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: being served one too many drinks. Her body is never recovered,

615
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 2: leaving her family and friends in shock and mourning.

616
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 10: Dulce White's family files a lawsuit, claiming the cruise line

617
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 10: overserved her alcohol and delayed an emergency response. The filing

618
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 10: alleges Dulcy was served seven drinks in six hours and

619
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 10: eight minutes despite obvious signs of intoxication. The cruise line

620
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 10: is accused of failing to comply with statutes enumerated in

621
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 10: US maritime law when they failed to launch an adequate

622
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 10: search for Julcy.

623
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 13: It will haunt us for the rest of our lives.

624
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 13: I feel that the over consumption of alcohol and the

625
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 13: over service of alcohol was the cause of this.

626
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: Now, for my friends at CBS, the daughter literally haunted

627
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: the rest of her life because she didn't catch her

628
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: mom before she fell overboard. Was it her fault? No,

629
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: but I'm sure she has survivor guilt. And these two

630
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: that we've highlighted tonight, Dulce and Anna, they aren't the

631
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: only ones. Does the name Amy Bradley ring a bell?

632
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: Because I will never forget it.

633
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: Amy Bradley was twenty three and she was on her

634
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: family vacation.

635
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 9: The water was crystal clear. Her life is good, everything

636
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 9: is great.

637
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 8: Taught us here tomorrow.

638
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: They went to bed.

639
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 8: Around five thirty in the morning.

640
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 9: I saw Amy on the balcony six o'clock again, she

641
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 9: wasn't there.

642
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: He said, I've been looking for Amy and I can't

643
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: find her.

644
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 8: And we check every inch of the ship.

645
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: The captain came in. He says the FBN, they've search Gord,

646
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: daughter's not on this bank.

647
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.

648
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: I saw her that from our friends at Netflix. Amy

649
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: Bradley is missing. To be told by the captain, your

650
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: daughter's not on this boat. How do you know that?

651
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: How do you know she's not on the boat. I mean,

652
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, you're joining us from port of Miami. How

653
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: big are these behaymoths?

654
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 11: They're massive, They're massive, and Nancy, if they told him that,

655
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 11: then they knew something. They looked at the cameras, they

656
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 11: saw a fall, they knew something.

657
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 5: But how can you tell someone.

658
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 6: That when you haven't even done an investigation, if you

659
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 6: don't see your falling off the boat on a cruise ship.

660
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: You know, the ship from which Anna Kevin went missing

661
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: was monstrous huge. There were thousands and thousands of not

662
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: only cruise ship passengers. I tried to add it up.

663
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: Let's say the fourteen deck Carnival Horizon sales the carib

664
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: Caribbean four thousand passengers and fifteen hundred person crew. That's

665
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: at least fifty five hundred people. And they come in

666
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: and tell the dad yet she's not on the ship. Okay,

667
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: and there's more.

668
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 4: Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.

669
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 12: I saw her.

670
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 11: That's where I was standing.

671
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 3: Amy's life.

672
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 9: Your taxi driver said, your daughter, he's on this owl

673
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 9: and she could have been lured on the ship.

674
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: I saw in the rest of Bob Barbadis. I said,

675
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: what's your name? Amy?

676
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 7: I was in toros onand girl said, my name is

677
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 7: Amy Bradley.

678
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: I need of I thought that could be Amy from

679
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: our friends at Netflix. Amy Bradley missing and it's still unsaw,

680
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's insistence that you

681
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: have to solve the case before everyone departs from the ship.

682
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I'm not sure you're familiar with Jackie Castanellis.

683
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: Another similar cruise chip misshap Well.

684
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 14: She was in New York City, waitteressing on her way

685
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 14: to becoming a star. She went to some open call

686
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 14: auditions and this was one of them for this high

687
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 14: end cruise line and Alon Behold. They called her back.

688
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 15: They liked what they saw on her and booked her

689
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 15: onto the first of what turned out to be three

690
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 15: cruises over the course of the next year and a half.

691
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 15: That was her really her first big break doing what

692
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 15: she loved doing, which was singing and performing.

693
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: Robert Crispin joining us there at the Port of Miami. Robert,

694
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: if they can't keep up with the safekeeping of their

695
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: own employees. She was a performer, right, She was there

696
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: as part of the performances that the ship puts on to,

697
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, entertain the passengers. They can't keep up with

698
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: a star performer. She ends up dead in her room

699
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: and nobody knows what happened, much less the passengers.

700
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 11: Let me tell you some if you've ever been on

701
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 11: one of these, they're floating cities.

702
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 5: They can't keep track of everybody. They just can't. It's impossible.

703
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: To you, Joe Scott Morgan, exactly why you were insisting

704
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: that the case be investigated while everyone is still on

705
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: the cruise ship, before witnesses can leave like they did

706
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: in the George Smith case and evidence lost. I mean,

707
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: they're never going to find Dulcie's body ever.

708
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 7: No, no, they will not gone forever and ever. Amen,

709
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 7: you know we're covering a similar case as well, not

710
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 7: similar in that sense in the sense of the crew lines,

711
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 7: but you know, we had the burning man homicide from

712
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 7: a couple of months ago and Nancy, there were seventy

713
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 7: thousand people at that event. There's a high probability that

714
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 7: that will never be solved. Do you know why? That

715
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 7: was a non permanent location where people just went into

716
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 7: the wind from all over the world. It's identical to

717
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 7: the cruise lines as well. You have these people that

718
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 7: go down there for fun. They relaxed they should be.

719
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 7: You've earned it, you pay for it. You go down there,

720
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 7: you want a taste of the good life, and then

721
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 7: you begin to indulge in alcohol. You meet strangers. Some

722
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 7: of them you don't know who they are, where they're from,

723
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 7: You don't know what their intentions are relative to you.

724
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 7: And so it's not like working in Atlanta or New

725
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 7: Orleans or New York or wherever where you have a

726
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 7: static location where you can go out and process a scene.

727
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 7: You can go out and canvas and interview people and

728
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 7: all these sorts of things. This is an absolute nightmare

729
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 7: scenario for everyone involved.

730
00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: Spencer Aaronfield, cruise ship lawyer Dulcy is your what are

731
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: you going to do? Man?

732
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 8: So the first thing we're going to find is the

733
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 8: surveillance video. We're going to interview the servers. We're going

734
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 8: to find out what they saw, what they knew, what

735
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 8: they observed. We're going to get the ship's position log

736
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 8: and find out from the moment that the daughter called

737
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 8: the bridge and informed them that her mom had gone

738
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 8: off the side of the ship, how long did it

739
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 8: take the ship to notify the Coastguard, notify the Bahamian authorities,

740
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 8: and to initiate any type of man overboard protocols. There's

741
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 8: technology available right now that alerts the bridge without having

742
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 8: to have a call. It's actually mandated by funeral law.

743
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 8: But most cruise lines are not following this and they

744
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 8: do not have installed man overboard technology. To my knowledge,

745
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 8: the only cruise line that is really fully compliant with

746
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 8: that is Disney. But all these new mega cruise ships

747
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 8: are coming out that are floating cities. They are doing

748
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 8: it in contradiction to US federal maritime law and they

749
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 8: do not have man overboard technology. There are so many

750
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 8: ways now that passengers who go overboard can be found.

751
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 8: A simple air tag can be included on their lanyard

752
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 8: so that when they go overboard, they can find them

753
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 8: with GPS within seconds. But the cruise lines choose to

754
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 8: put their profits ahead of passenger safety, and they don't

755
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 8: invest in the technology that they're required to have, and

756
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 8: they can easily have to rescue people that go off

757
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 8: the side of ships.

758
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: Two more unsolved cruise ship fatalities. If you know or

759
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: think you know anything about these cases, please contact Miami

760
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: F ANDBI seven five four seven zero three two thousand,

761
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: repeat seven five four seven zero three two thousand. Your

762
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: tip may make the difference in solving these cases. We

763
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield, Sacramento County Sheriffs, California,

764
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty after thirteen years serving

765
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife and two children

766
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: without a dad. American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield. Nancy

767
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye Frien