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Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And on

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Speaker 1: today's podcast we have an interview, this time with two people,

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Speaker 1: uh Michael Bornstein and his daughter, Debbie Bornstein, Hollands dot And.

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Speaker 1: Michael Bornstein is an Auschwitz survivor. He lived as a

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Speaker 1: child in the camp for seven months, which is astonishing

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Speaker 1: in and of itself, as most children lasted only two

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Speaker 1: weeks there. He and his daughter have written an account

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Speaker 1: of his childhood, starting with his family and Nazi occupied Poland.

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Speaker 1: Michael was born in Jarkie, Poland when it was considered

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Speaker 1: an open Jewish ghetto under German occupation, and the Bornstein

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Speaker 1: family story is incredible. Michael and many of his relatives

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Speaker 1: survived through unbelievable instances of luck and happenstance, although his

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Speaker 1: father and his brother were murdered at Auschwitz. And the

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Speaker 1: book that shares this narrative is called Survivors Club. And

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Speaker 1: Michael and Debbie were gracious enough to talk to me

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Speaker 1: about their family's history as well as the collaborative process

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Speaker 1: in writing this book. One thing that's truly lovely about

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Speaker 1: this book is that it's uh, in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: truly uplifting. It's obviously very dark and very serious in

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Speaker 1: its subject matter, but at the same time as a

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Speaker 1: story that is overall there's a lot of positivity in there. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get to the interview. We are

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily fortunate today on the show because we have as

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Speaker 1: guests Michael Bornstein and Debbie Bornstein Holland Stat his daughter,

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Speaker 1: who co wrote a book titled Survivors Club, which is

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Speaker 1: about Michael's experience as a child in Auschwitz. Uh. First,

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Speaker 1: you both explain why you decided to tell this story

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Speaker 1: in the preface, but would you also share that here

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Speaker 1: with our listeners. I have wanted to write this story

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Speaker 1: for a very long time, probably since I was in

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Speaker 1: my twenties years now, and my dad really wasn't ready

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Speaker 1: to talk. And I think that a series of things

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Speaker 1: finally happened. UM. One is that survivors, older survivors aren't

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Speaker 1: here anymore to talk, and I know that my dad

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Speaker 1: um realized that that left him up at that UM.

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Speaker 1: The grandkids were a big part of the reason my

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Speaker 1: dad has eleven grandkids. Three of those kids are mine.

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Speaker 1: In gard Me. Three of those kids are mine, and

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Speaker 1: they are quite pushy, and they wanted to hear their

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Speaker 1: papa tell them stories. They wanted to know what he

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Speaker 1: had been through, and they wanted to learn about the Holocaust,

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Speaker 1: not through books, but through his stories. So I think

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Speaker 1: that helped pressure him into it. And UM, I think

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Speaker 1: given everything that's going on in the political world right now, UM,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, there's never been a better time

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Speaker 1: for him to have chosen to do this. I just

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Speaker 1: want to emphasize that, first of all, I'm very proud

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Speaker 1: to be a US citizen, but we don't want to

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Speaker 1: forget what happened in history. And uh, we have some

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Speaker 1: things going on like the old right uh uh, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that gave us inspiration. Uh

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Speaker 1: his question about Moslim's black platinos and other minorities, and

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Speaker 1: I think that all has something to do with what

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Speaker 1: happened to me and the discrimination that we had, uh,

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Speaker 1: not just in Auschwitz but after the war, uh, and

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Speaker 1: some in the US. And Michael, you actually first became

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Speaker 1: aware of footage of yourself as a young boy at

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Speaker 1: the camp while you were completely on expectedly watching a

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Speaker 1: movie with your wife. What was that moment like, Well,

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Speaker 1: it was unusual. We had some friends. We watched the movie,

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Speaker 1: and uh we saw the video of myself close up

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Speaker 1: of my tattoo, and I just couldn't believe it because

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Speaker 1: I hadn't seen that video before. And uh, I was very,

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Speaker 1: very surprised. And that's basically is so. Right after he

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Speaker 1: viewed it, he called the director in Hollywood of the

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Speaker 1: movie The Chosen and explained, you know that was video

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Speaker 1: of me. Oh my gosh, you know where did that

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Speaker 1: come from? That? That was the video of me at Liberation?

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Speaker 1: And the director said, well, what do you want? And

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Speaker 1: my dad joked, oh, I want a starring role in

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Speaker 1: your next movie, and the man hung up on him.

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Speaker 1: My father really just wanted to see if we could

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Speaker 1: somehow get a clip of it. So I bought a

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Speaker 1: movie camera and went into the theater and the movie

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Speaker 1: director was kind of enough to let me take a

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Speaker 1: picture of that. Yeah, he sat with his big home

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Speaker 1: movie camera in the back of the theater in Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: Um and they allowed him to film the screen just

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Speaker 1: so that we would have that footage because it was

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Speaker 1: long before the era of googling for video on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: so it was the only way to access that. So

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Speaker 1: that was something we treasured for a long time, having

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Speaker 1: this VHS tape of that liberation footage. Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: that's an amazing story. And I know that as you

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Speaker 1: put this whole book together, you interviewed a lot of

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Speaker 1: relatives to piece the narrative together. Was there ever reluctance

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Speaker 1: on the part of those who had been through this

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Speaker 1: ordeal to revisit those times. No, I would say, we

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Speaker 1: are fortunate that there are some people live. For example,

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Speaker 1: Marvin Svorowski, who's about eighty six eighty seven, and uh,

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Speaker 1: he told us some stories and some things I hadn't

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Speaker 1: known at all about my father being president of the

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Speaker 1: unon Rod and so he talked about his experiences. We went,

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Speaker 1: we were in Israel. We went to Yatva Sham, a

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Speaker 1: Jewish museum, and they were very helpful and showed documents

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Speaker 1: with my tattoo on it. That one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: one of the miracles that I survived is that I

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Speaker 1: was very sick. The Nazis had a death march because

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Speaker 1: they knew they were losing the war and they wanted

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Speaker 1: to get rid of any remnants of around. But my mother,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother and I UH managed to get into what

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Speaker 1: quote unquote was the emory and we hit there basically

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Speaker 1: while the Nazis went away. We would have surely died

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Speaker 1: in that death mark. Otherwise, Marvin's Browsky, who my father

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Speaker 1: mentioned UM, was incredibly generous with his time and with

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Speaker 1: his stories. He lived next door to my family, my

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Speaker 1: dad's relatives and my father UH in Jarkie, Poland, and

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Speaker 1: he says that he knew our family almost as well

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Speaker 1: as he knew his own. They were almost like family.

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Speaker 1: And while Marvin was very generous with his stories, there

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Speaker 1: were times where he was reluctant because he experienced so

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Speaker 1: much firsthand. And one story in particular that he initially

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Speaker 1: did not want to tell me and finally started and

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Speaker 1: stopped and finally decided to share with me is that

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Speaker 1: UM when he was about fourteen years old, he was

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Speaker 1: forced into labor in the ghetto and he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to report for work in the morning and he was

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Speaker 1: very sickly that he had a fever. He doesn't know,

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Speaker 1: but he said he was just too sick to get

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Speaker 1: out of bed, and he stayed in bed and the

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Speaker 1: um he woke up to a pillow over his space.

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Speaker 1: Nazi guards had come and they put a pillow over

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Speaker 1: his face. They didn't kill him. Then they dragged him

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Speaker 1: to um a jail and they sentenced him to death

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Speaker 1: for missing his labor assignment. Uh. They were one by

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Speaker 1: one taking people out of the jail shortly after that

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Speaker 1: and killing them. And Marvin said that the jail doors

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Speaker 1: opened at one point and there was my grandfather, my

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Speaker 1: dad's father. He had bribed the guards to let him out.

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Speaker 1: Um he had we learned Um. We learned that he

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Speaker 1: had set up a system of bribery and collected this

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Speaker 1: big pot of money and wherever possible was saving lives

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Speaker 1: and um making conditions more bearable in the ghetto. And

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Speaker 1: that was just incredible to learn, an incredible piece of

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Speaker 1: information to share with my dad because he he doesn't

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Speaker 1: remember his father and he can only know about him

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Speaker 1: through these kinds of stories. So it was really amazing

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Speaker 1: moment to to hear this. That was one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest things that we learned about writing the book is

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Speaker 1: information about my father. He was president of the un ROD,

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Speaker 1: which basically means working together with the Nazis. And the

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Speaker 1: Jewish people, and uh when he found out what was

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Speaker 1: going on, he tried to save as many people as

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Speaker 1: he possibly could by either having them up go underground,

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Speaker 1: or bribing the Nazis or whatever was necessary to get

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Speaker 1: things done. Just to give you a little bit of

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Speaker 1: context about what Michael and Debbie were talking about, their

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Speaker 1: the uton rod were Jewish councils it up of citizens

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Speaker 1: of an occupied zone that the Nazis established to service

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Speaker 1: go betweens between the community there and the German officers

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Speaker 1: so that they could ensure that Nazi orders were being followed.

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Speaker 1: And Michael's father was head of the un rot in Jaqui,

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Speaker 1: and he used that position to help as many people

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Speaker 1: as he possibly could. We're going to pause here for

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Speaker 1: a brief sponsor break, and then we will continue our

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Speaker 1: conversation with Michael and Debbie in the next segment. Michael

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Speaker 1: talks about his parents and the sacrifices that they made,

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Speaker 1: and he and Debbie talk about how that background really

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Speaker 1: informs his life as a parent. I wonder, Michael, as

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Speaker 1: you had children of your own, did that affect your

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Speaker 1: thoughts about both of your parents and what they did

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Speaker 1: to try to protect you. Yes, it certainly has effect

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Speaker 1: with me. I'm very proud that my father uh was

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Speaker 1: was able to save people. Uh it affected me. My

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Speaker 1: mother gave us information about that survival. She uh uh

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Speaker 1: I was four years old at the time, and for

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Speaker 1: a while she was a Nouschwitz and she came into

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Speaker 1: the children's bung. She was beaten over the head. She

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Speaker 1: shared some of the food with me because the older

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Speaker 1: children were starving too, and they were able to take

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Speaker 1: my food away. So she gave me some of her bread,

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Speaker 1: some of her suit, which smelled terribly. Had to close

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Speaker 1: your nose to eat it. But it basically saved my

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Speaker 1: life then. And as a father, I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: As a daughter, um, I can tell you that. Um.

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Speaker 1: People ask me all the time, was your father affected?

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Speaker 1: Did he have depression? You know? How is he affected

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Speaker 1: by this? And he is an overwhelmingly positive man and

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Speaker 1: he created an incredibly positive life because of that optimistic

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Speaker 1: attitude he's always had. And he was just a great

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Speaker 1: everyday soccer dad. I never really thought about him so

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Speaker 1: much being a Holocaust survivor, but I see now that

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Speaker 1: whether he learned it, or whether he inherited it, or

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Speaker 1: or what happened, I can say that, UM, he is

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Speaker 1: as protective of us as my grandmother was of him

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Speaker 1: in Auschwitz. Um he puts his family first. He puts

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Speaker 1: his kids first, and his now his grandkids first. And UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether he learned that from all the

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Speaker 1: sacrifices he saw his mother make for him, or whether

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Speaker 1: that's just who he is because he inherited it from

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Speaker 1: his parents. But I can tell you that, UM, he

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Speaker 1: is an incredibly positive and wonderful kind of a dad

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Speaker 1: and grandpa. I can also tell you that Debbie was

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Speaker 1: on vacation after she graduated college and she was going

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Speaker 1: to go to Auschwitz concentration camp, and I beg her

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Speaker 1: not to go, because I really don't like to see

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Speaker 1: my kids see the horrors. Uh and uh, And she

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Speaker 1: listened to me and didn't go to Housewitz. At the time,

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Speaker 1: he didn't really tried to put us in a bubble

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Speaker 1: and protect us. But I'm really proud of him that

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Speaker 1: he recognizes now how important it is to talk UM.

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Speaker 1: For so many reasons. For us, for the kids, it

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Speaker 1: was important to know these stories. And I think for

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Speaker 1: the country, especially now, and for the world, it's important

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Speaker 1: to share them because as soon as we forget, you know,

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Speaker 1: history repeats absolutely. I have to wonder, Debbie, what the

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Speaker 1: experience of working on this project what you're with your

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Speaker 1: father was like for you. Did it change your relationship?

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Speaker 1: My dad and I were always close. He's close with

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Speaker 1: all four of us kids, UM, but certainly, um, we

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Speaker 1: are incredibly close. Now I have a whole news respect

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Speaker 1: for my dad. You know, growing up, we would make

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Speaker 1: fun of him because he, um could never leave a

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Speaker 1: morsel of food on on a plate, and he was

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Speaker 1: very careful with money. I mean, I can remember going

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Speaker 1: on vacations where we all had to you know, hide

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Speaker 1: and to walk into hotel room separately and hide so

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Speaker 1: we could save money and share one room with our

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Speaker 1: big family. And we never got our own meals as kids.

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Speaker 1: We always had to share them at restaurants because you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't because my father couldn't afford it, because he

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Speaker 1: was always saving just in case, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: back of his mind is optimistic because he was he

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Speaker 1: always had some anxiety, some nerves about you know, what

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Speaker 1: he had been through and making sure that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: his family was always protected. And now I think I

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Speaker 1: completely understand where he's coming from. I completely understand and

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Speaker 1: have so much respect for the fact that every decision

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Speaker 1: he made he always did with his kids int us

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Speaker 1: and with his family's interests UM in mind. And I

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Speaker 1: have incredible, incredible respect for him for finally deciding to

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Speaker 1: speak out because it wasn't easy. I UM. I know

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Speaker 1: that he's even nervous UM now sometimes about becoming a

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Speaker 1: target UM for anti you know, anti semites um and deniers,

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Speaker 1: and it took a lot of courage to step up

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Speaker 1: and and talk publicly. So I have an enormous amount

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Speaker 1: of respect for him. Um. I always did, but especially now.

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Speaker 1: I just want to mention that is a fantastic writer

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Speaker 1: and I just amazed she was a She was a

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Speaker 1: terrific poet and we have some of her poetry enough

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Speaker 1: on our wall. But she's done an absolutely great job.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, I one of the things that mother

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Speaker 1: taught me is gom zay. Yeah for this too. Shell

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Speaker 1: passed and we tried to be optimistic that things will

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Speaker 1: go better, and it certainly has. With Debby's book, We've

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Speaker 1: gotten amazing response and we're very, very happy in what

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Speaker 1: she did. And we didn't know if anybody would care.

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Speaker 1: Seventy two years after the war. Um, seventy two years

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Speaker 1: after liberation, we didn't know if anybody cared to keep

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Speaker 1: hearing more of these stories. And the response has been

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Speaker 1: so incredible, and um, it's very comforting. It's been a

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Speaker 1: big reassurance to me, but of course to my dad. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I understand why the response has been incredible. The book

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Speaker 1: is is really lovely. The way you have laid out

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Speaker 1: the narrative is so engaging. I can't imagine people not

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Speaker 1: just completely devouring it in a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: because it's impossible to put down. One of the lines

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Speaker 1: that really stood out to me in the book was

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Speaker 1: where we're talking about being booked into Auschwitz, and the

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Speaker 1: line is it takes about sixty minutes to adjust and

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Speaker 1: to accept that everything has just been stolen from you,

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Speaker 1: even your name. And what that made me wonder is

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Speaker 1: how long it took you, Michael, to adjust the opposite

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Speaker 1: way to the idea that the camp had been liberated

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Speaker 1: and you were not a number but you were Michael Again,

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Speaker 1: if if I heard the question correctly, After we were liberated,

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Speaker 1: my mother was in Austria and the labor camp and

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Speaker 1: my grandmother, uh, and I got out of the concentration camp,

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Speaker 1: and we have a picture of carrying me out of

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Speaker 1: the camp. But just for your information, Uh, we came

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Speaker 1: back to the town where I was born to The

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Speaker 1: town is called Jarki in Poland, and the house was

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Speaker 1: occupied by Polish people and we couldn't get in. So

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Speaker 1: my grandmother and I me up and her up in

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Speaker 1: a chicken poop and that's how we lived. And uh,

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Speaker 1: my mother came back from Austria. She found us in

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Speaker 1: the town of Sharkey, and uh we were able to

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Speaker 1: go back. She was appalled at the conditions that we

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Speaker 1: were living, and not that they weren't better than Auschwitz,

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Speaker 1: but this was after the war, so thanks changed after that.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I found really fascinating about this

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Speaker 1: story is that the way the book has laid out,

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Speaker 1: the narrative of your time in Auschwitz ends about halfway through,

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Speaker 1: and the rest is really about your family, your surviving family,

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Speaker 1: recovering after having managed to survive all of this, And

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Speaker 1: was there a conscious choice to structure it that way.

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Speaker 1: You've already talked so much about positivity and how important

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Speaker 1: that is, but that coming back together of the remaining

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Speaker 1: family is so moving, and I wonder if you purposely

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Speaker 1: gave that a little more weight. It's called Survivor's Club

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Speaker 1: for a reason. This isn't just my dad's story. This

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Speaker 1: is his entire family story. One of the pieces that

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Speaker 1: I've always found so remarkable is that my grandma had

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Speaker 1: six brothers and sisters, so it was a family of

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Speaker 1: seven siblings. They all made different decisions during the war,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone into hiding. One was in Warsaw and

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Speaker 1: ended up in the Warsaw Uprising. One escaped Warsaw and

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Speaker 1: um ended up being saved by Tuni Suki haara Um

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Speaker 1: and escaping to Japan. Uh. My dad and his parents

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Speaker 1: stayed in Jarki and then ended up an Auschwitz. And

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Speaker 1: yet after the war, one by one they all came home.

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Speaker 1: Zarki was a town of thirty four Jews before the war,

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Speaker 1: and about twenty seven came back to Zarki, and most

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Speaker 1: of them were my dad's family. So it would have

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Speaker 1: been a mistake, I think, to focus just on Auschwitz

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Speaker 1: or just my dad's story, because it's the entire store,

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Speaker 1: it's the entire family story, and it's each piece is

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Speaker 1: so remarkable, and when you put them all together, it's

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Speaker 1: really unbelievable. UM, and I just I thought it was

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Speaker 1: important to make sure we included that my dad was

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Speaker 1: very close to with aunts and uncles, and as you read, UM,

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Speaker 1: when he came to New York, they came to his rescue. Dad.

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Speaker 1: You want to talk about that a little bit, Uh, yes, Uh.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I'll mention to you that after the war,

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Speaker 1: my mother took me to Germany. I was basically very skinny,

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Speaker 1: skeen and bone. I didn't have hair on my head,

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Speaker 1: and the children bullied me. And it was difficult in

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Speaker 1: Germany after the war. But then we came back to

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Speaker 1: the United States and First High US, a Jewish organization,

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Speaker 1: put me up because we went on a U S destroyer.

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Speaker 1: We came to the US on a US destroyer. I

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Speaker 1: think it's called the Steward. And I was throwing up

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Speaker 1: for seven days and seven nights because of uh the

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Speaker 1: waves and so on and see sickness, and so First

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Speaker 1: Highest put me up. I had a high fever and

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Speaker 1: almost didn't get into the United because UH naturalization people

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Speaker 1: didn't want to allow six people to come into the US.

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Speaker 1: But between my mother and I we managed to come in. Uh.

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Speaker 1: My one uncle put us up in Brooklyn in his

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Speaker 1: dining room, and so we managed to be there and

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Speaker 1: uh and its goes on and on like that, but

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Speaker 1: they all stayed, you know. They all looked out for

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Speaker 1: each other in different ways. My aunt Ola ended up

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Speaker 1: hiring my grandmother to work in her corset shop, um

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Speaker 1: Agnes Malone in New York, and so she was able

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Speaker 1: to make money that way when they could. Ever, everybody

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Speaker 1: looked out for each other. They were a rare, unique,

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Speaker 1: um miraculous club of survivors. Yeah. And I worked in

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Speaker 1: a drug store on ninety sixth Street in Madison Avenue

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Speaker 1: for fifty cents an hour, and uh that's how I

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Speaker 1: inherited my love for pharmacy. Went on to uh become

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Speaker 1: a chamber made buss boy waiter, head waiter. And the

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Speaker 1: cat skills H got Fordham was wonderful because, uh, when

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Speaker 1: I was ready to start college, Fordham University uh didn't

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Speaker 1: have any dorms and my mother remarried and moved to Havana, Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have a place to stay again, and

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Speaker 1: Fordham put me up in uh there uh basically yeah,

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Speaker 1: infirmary whatever it was, and uh uh and with a

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Speaker 1: big eighth foot across in front of my bed, and

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Speaker 1: they were absolutely wonderful, gave me a fellowship and became

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Speaker 1: a pharmacist, and then I went on uh to the

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Speaker 1: University of Iowa, where I received a PhD in pharmaceutics

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Speaker 1: in analytical chemistry. And uh, probably the more important thing

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Speaker 1: is I met my wife, Judy there and we've been

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Speaker 1: married for almost fifty years. So so that's about it.

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Speaker 1: So Michael spoke briefly in the last segment about how

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Speaker 1: seasick he had been while crossing the Atlantic, and in

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Speaker 1: the book there is this story about how he and

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Speaker 1: his mother had to convince officials that he wasn't bringing

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Speaker 1: a contagious disease into the country in order to get

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Speaker 1: through immigration processing once they reached the United States. It

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Speaker 1: also speaks volumes that both Michael and Debbie are so

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Speaker 1: quick to credit every kindness that helped Michael along the

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Speaker 1: way as he built his life and pursued an education

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Speaker 1: here in the United States. And we're going to hear

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Speaker 1: more from them, but first we are going to pause

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Speaker 1: for a word from one of our fantastic sponsors. So

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Speaker 1: in our final segment of this interview, Michael and Debbie

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Speaker 1: share their perspectives on these sort of just insane circumstances

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Speaker 1: and very fortunate circumstances that enabled so many of their

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Speaker 1: family to survive. And Michael also shares his wisdom on

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Speaker 1: enduring difficult times and managing to maintain a positive outlook.

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Speaker 1: There were both, for you, Michael, and so many survivors

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Speaker 1: in your family, just innumerable moments where things had gone

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Speaker 1: even slightly differently, Uh, they would not have survived. So

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Speaker 1: when you think about all of those minute decisions and

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Speaker 1: moments that ultimately enabled you to stay alive until the

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Speaker 1: Soviets liberated the camp, what goes through your mind when

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Speaker 1: you think about how many things had to fall into

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Speaker 1: place for your ultimate survival. Yes, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of things, starting with my father being president of the

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Speaker 1: unon rout and saving a lot of lives, and then

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Speaker 1: the situation in Outfits at the end, And really I

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Speaker 1: think it's just stab what you call it a miracle?

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Speaker 1: Would you call it miracles? How would you describe it miracles?

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Speaker 1: I guess huh, Yes, I would definitely describe it as

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Speaker 1: a miracle and a lot of miracles because again in

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Speaker 1: the United States, being uh able to find foredom and

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Speaker 1: then Iowa, and things go on and on. But the

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Speaker 1: biggest verycle, my kids and eleven grandchildren, and they're extremely

393
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: supportive and worked together. My grandson Jake was had a

394
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: Mitzva charity project uh and talking about the Holocaust, and

395
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: he had me involved. And that's one of the reasons

396
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: we got involved with the book, because he wanted to

397
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Speaker 1: share uh my experiences with Sinnagogue and other places. And

398
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Speaker 1: you returned to Auschwitz for the first time in two

399
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: thousand one. That had to have been quite an experience.

400
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Speaker 1: What was that like for you? Well, it was an

401
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: experience of probably the biggest thing was the anticipation of

402
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Speaker 1: going back to Auschwitz. And we saw the children's bunk,

403
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Speaker 1: and we saw the bunk there. We went to Burton

404
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: Now where we saw a small than and you know,

405
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and I keep thinking back about the smell uh that

406
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: I think I experienced the Auschwitz, the marching boots and

407
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: uh it was difficult, but we worked through it and survived.

408
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: And again what I said, dan zay Avor, uh this

409
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: two show passed. Uh So. And the other thing I

410
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: won't mentioned to you about the h experience is my

411
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: mother went back to the house where we lived in Jakie, Poland,

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Speaker 1: and even though she couldn't get into the house, she

413
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: went to the backyard at night and she dug with

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Speaker 1: her hands to try to find the jewels and money

415
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: and personal belongings that they my father and my mother

416
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Speaker 1: did in the backyard. The only thing that we found

417
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Speaker 1: was a kiddish cup, a cup that you made blessings

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00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: over at different celebrations. And that cup has had a

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00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: lot of meanings for us. It's been at our wedding,

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00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: our children's at birth, the brisk and u and wedding

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Speaker 1: children's weddings. So we're very proud to to have that

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00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: kiddish cup. You magically got to my next question already.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that. What to

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00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: either of you is really the thing that you hope

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00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: people who read the book take away from it above

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Speaker 1: all else, well, I would say club all else. Number

427
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: one is come say or to be optimistic when things

428
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: are dead. I know it. In Germany, my mother after

429
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: bullying and so on, but people, uh townspeople in Germany,

430
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Speaker 1: children in Germany, they bullied me that I was a

431
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: Jew and called me you. Then my mother finally put

432
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: me in to a gymnasia debrit to Gammannia Hebrew Gymnasium

433
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: of Germany, and there were many other children there that

434
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: didn't have any family, It didn't have any optimism, jumped

435
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: out of windows. And so from that standpoint, it uh

436
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: if we learned to survive and succeed thanks to my

437
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: mother and and myself. And basically the one thing that

438
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: I learned is to be accepting of other people. And

439
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: we mentioned before the alt Right is there and they

440
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: they have some swasti as being inscribed and people being

441
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: called to or other blacks names and latinos since other minorities,

442
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: and I think it's important for people to learn to

443
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: be uh cognizant and be considerate of other minorities, other

444
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: religions and and backgrounds. Yeah, and for me at this

445
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: at this moment in time, I feel like it's also

446
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: important just to take away the fact that to take

447
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: away from the book the fact that UM, when bigotry

448
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: and um discrimination goes unchecked and when power goes unchecked,

449
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: this is what can happen. I have always wondered why

450
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: it took my dad seventy two years to finally open up,

451
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: and I've regretted that I didn't push harder earlier to

452
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: get him to answer these questions, or to get all

453
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the answers from my grandmother when she was here. And

454
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: now it seems like the timing has almost faded that

455
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: this book should come out now. Um it seems like, um,

456
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: the perfect time to remind the world what happens when

457
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: bikeotry goes unchecked. My deepest, deepest thanks to Michael Bornstein

458
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: and Debbie Bornstein Holland stop for spending time with me

459
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: and sharing this really important piece of history. The book

460
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: is called Survivors Club, and it's available now. It's written

461
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: at a reading level suitable for younger history buffs, but

462
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: Holly has read it and found it a good read

463
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: for adults. Also. Yeah, Debbie did most of the writing

464
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: for it after she and her father had collected this

465
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: information and did interviews with relatives. And she's a really

466
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: good writer. She has a news background, so she's able

467
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: to convey information very clearly. Uh, it's a really good read.

468
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: I had a hard time putting it down. Actually, Survivors Club,

469
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: the true story of a very young prisoner of Auschwitz,

470
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: is available, as we said, wherever books are sold. You

471
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: can learn more about the book and if you want.

472
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: They're also doing some speaking engagements, so you can check

473
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: out their speaking schedule at Survivors club book dot com.

474
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: Do you have some listener mail to close us out today?

475
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: I do, But first I'm gonna talk about podcasts. Oh yeah,

476
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: we know, if you're listening to this, you listen to podcasts.

477
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: But you probably know somebody that is not listening to

478
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: podcasts yet. Maybe they haven't figured out exactly what a

479
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: podcast is. I know there are people in my family.

480
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: I'm still explaining it to um. But uh, surely you

481
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: have some podcasts that you love, not necessarily ours, that

482
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: might be perfect for them. Like, Uh, one of the

483
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: ones that I'm absolutely in love with and has been

484
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: I think it was actually my first podcast is Star

485
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: Talk with Neil de grass Tyson. I love it. It's

486
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: funny and it's informative, and it talks about science and

487
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: culture and it's really wonderful. There are so many people

488
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: that I recommend that too. There's probably some podcasts that

489
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: you listen to that is exactly perfect to get that

490
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: person that you haven't convinced that podcast is the right

491
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: thing for them yet to listen to. So do that

492
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 1: share your love of podcasts. You're opening up a who

493
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: new world of information for people, and when you do it,

494
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: you can also post on social media about it using

495
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: the hashtag tripod, which is tried t r y p

496
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: o D, so that you can let other people know

497
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: what you're recommending to your friends and family, UH and

498
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, make podcasts more available and

499
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: more accessible for everyone. Our listener mail is from an

500
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: artist named Claire Wildwood. She uses that on all of

501
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: her social media. Normally we don't give last names, but

502
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: since she also sent her card and it includes that,

503
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: I figured I would say that as well. She writes,

504
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: Dear Holly and Tracy. First of all, happy Valentine's Day,

505
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: because we got a Valentine card which I'll describe in

506
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: a moment. She says, thank you so much for the

507
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: truly wonderful podcast. I'm an illustrator and I love listening

508
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: to the podcast while sketching and painting. I especially love

509
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: any episode about fashion history. This card I designed brought

510
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: to mind the fabulous episode on Roosevelt dam. I love

511
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: what you ladies do, and thanks again. She sent us

512
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: this beautiful card that she designed, which is a woman

513
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: in UH eighteenth century Rococo gear, says the elam Valentine,

514
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: which is will you be My Valentine? It's beautiful. It

515
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: is black and white with red accents. Uh, and it's

516
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: absolutely gorgeous. It is another thing I have to post

517
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: a picture of. So thank you, so much, Claire again.

518
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: Her name is Claire Wildwood. If you want to look

519
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: her up online and see some of her beautiful art,

520
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: she's at Claire Wildwood dot com. UH. If you would

521
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can do so at

522
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: History Podcast at how stuff Works. You can also find

523
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: us across the spectrum of social media as missed in History.

524
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: That means on Twitter as at missed in History, on Instagram,

525
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: as at missed in History, at Facebook dot com, slash

526
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: missed in history at missed in History dot tumbler dot com,

527
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: and on pinterest dot com slash mist in history. If

528
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: you'd like to do a little research just for fun,

529
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: because you are clearly an information gathering type person, you

530
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: can go to our parents site, how stuff works dot com.

531
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: Type in almost anything you're curious about in the search bar,

532
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: and you will generate a list of content that will

533
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: keep you busy and occupied for quite some time. You

534
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: can also visit me and Tracy at missed in History

535
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: dot com or we have an archive of every episode

536
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: we have ever worked on together, as well as the

537
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: every episode of the show that's existed before us. We

538
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: also have a new format where we are combining the

539
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: show notes and the show page into one page, so

540
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: you just have to go to one place to get

541
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: all of that information. That's new. They used to be separate,

542
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: so if you're looking for one of the other, no

543
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: longer you can just find them all together. So come

544
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: of visit us at missed in History dot com and

545
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com for more on this and

546
00:35:48,480 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

547
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: The SI