1 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and this is season two of Our Skin, 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: a personal discovery podcast. Today we are honored to welcome 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: India Bolton to Our Skin. India is a passionate advocate 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: for those living with piasis and soiatic arthritis. As a mother, 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: she brings a unique perspective on managing chronic illness while 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: navigating the joys and challenges of parenthood. India's journey began 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: in college when she was diagnosed with gutatesiasis after noticing 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: small red scaly spots on her legs. Over time, her 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: condition evolved to include plaque and inverse sriasis, leading to 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: very severe flare ups that significantly impacted her daily life. 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: During her first pregnancy, India began experiencing persistent joint pain, 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: initially dismissed as something just typical of pregnancy discomfort. However, 13 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: that pain continued postpartum, leading eventually to a diagnosis of 14 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: soriatic arthritis a year later. Her second pregnancy similarly came 15 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: with a flare up. She broke out and gutate inverse 16 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: and plaque soriasis from head to toe, and that lasted 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: for seven months. Today, India psoriasis is kept under control 18 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: with a variety of treatments, including UVB treatments and dietary changes. 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: But despite all of these challenges, India has become a 20 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: beacon of resilience and empowerment. She openly shares her experiences 21 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: on social media, fostering a supportive community for others who 22 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: face similar struggles. Her advocacy emphasizes the importance of self care, 23 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: mental health, and the power of community. India, welcome to 24 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: our skin. We are so grateful that you're here with us. 25 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. 26 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: You're so young to have been on so much road already. Yeah, 27 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: I would love it if you would take us back 28 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: to that initial diagnosis. 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: It was my first year of college. 30 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: Just a baby. Yeah, what was that like, Like, what 31 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: was that initial diagnosis process, like where you were like, hey, 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: something is actually wrong. Someone helped me. Yeah. 33 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: So I was in college and I actually shared a 34 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 3: drink with a girlfriend and she must have had strep 35 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: throat because I caught strep throat. And about six months later, 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: December January ish of twenty seventeen, I started getting like 37 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 3: spots on the back of my legs and at first 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: I thought that they were just like bug bites that 39 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: weren't healing right because we had done like a lot 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: of bonfires and stuff, and it was just weird. 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, I was eighteen. I wasn't using my 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: brain properly at that age. 43 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: If for honest, most people would dismiss something like that, Oh, 44 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I have poison ivy, I have a bug bite, I 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: have something I'm exposed to. Yeah. 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I didn't really think much of it. 47 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 3: And then one day I woke up and I had 48 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 3: a spot It was like the size of a quarter, 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 3: just all of a sudden, on my right cheek, and 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: then it spread to my ears, and I was like, okay. 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: So I went to the termatologist and she was like, yeah, 52 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 3: you have gutate psoriasis. Here's some steroid creams. And that 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 3: was pretty much. 54 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: That you have mentioned many times, and you share the 55 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: fact that you experienced multiple different forms of psoriasis. How 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: have all of these different types and having multiple types 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: at once impacted your daily life. 58 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 3: So for the first seven years of my diagnosis, I 59 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: only had gwtate psoriasis. It was only in twenty twenty four, 60 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: when I was pregnant with my son I got the 61 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: flu twice, I got COVID, I had strapped. 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: Throat for a month. 63 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: I was just like totally hit with all these different illnesses. 64 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: And then that's when my body went crazy because I 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: was also pregnant and I developed the inverse. 66 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: As well as the plaque. That was the most difficult time. 67 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: So I went those seven years just steroid creams and 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: they'd go away to come back, and it didn't really 69 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: do much. But last year it was a lot different, 70 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: even the clothes I could wear. 71 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: At that point. 72 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: You also mentioned that you started ex experiencing joint pain, 73 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: which a lot of people do during pregnancy, but it 74 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: was ultimately diagnosed as sorietic arthritis. Can you share more 75 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: about that journey, and particularly at what point did you 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: start to suspect this is not just from carrying a baby, 77 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: this is something else. 78 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: So it was really interesting. 79 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: About six months before I got pregnant with my daughter, 80 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: I had my first flare and I had absolutely no 81 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: idea what it was at the time, but my big 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: toe on my left foot got so swollen I couldn't 83 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 3: wear shoe. 84 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: I was on crutches for like two weeks. I had 85 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: no idea what was going on. Totally random. 86 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 3: Then I got pregnant with my daughter and I had 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: the typical aches and pains. They said, it'll go away 88 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 3: after you have her, It's fine. It never went away. 89 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: So then that's when they were like, Okay, at this point, 90 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: we do think that you have zoriatic arthritis. There's not 91 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: like a blood test specifically for it. But with the 92 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: symptoms I was having and having hadsriasis for so long, 93 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 3: at that point it just made sense. 94 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: I can imagine. Also, just like having a newborn child 95 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: is physically arduous, you are constantly lifting another little person up, 96 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: doing a lot of it that had to have been 97 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: extraordinarily painful. 98 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 3: Fun fact, I was living in Colorado when my toddler 99 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 3: was born, and where I was living in Colorado is 100 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: listed as one of the best places to live if 101 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 3: you have arthritis of any kind. So I was very 102 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: fortunate that like the elevation or something there like really 103 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 3: helped out. But it was my second pregnancy with my 104 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: son that postpartum my ceratic arthritis flared big time. It 105 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: was worse the second time. 106 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: For anyone, managing chronic illness is a lot of work, 107 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: managing it with three very little kids. Your children are 108 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: all very young still, that's no small feet. How do 109 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: you figure it out where you can balance your health 110 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: needs and very demanding parenting responsibilities. 111 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: I mean, my kids are the most important thing in 112 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: the whole world to me. 113 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: And making sure that I stay on top of my diets, 114 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 3: my supplements and doing my uv BE and stress management 115 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 3: especially like they are also important because I notice when 116 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 3: I eat better, I have more energy. Regardless of if 117 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: my skin or my joints feel better, I have more energy. 118 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: If I'm managing my stress, I have more capacity, more patience. 119 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 3: It really is so helpful and more than just having 120 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 3: a chronic illness. And something that I really love about 121 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: my psoriasis as especially with my daughters, is they're growing 122 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 3: up and they're saying, like, Mom looks different, but she 123 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 3: still loves herself, and I shall love myself too. And 124 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: it also teaches my kids to have empathy for people 125 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: that may look different than them. 126 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: I love it. You're doing generational teaching of such transceptance, 127 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: which is amazing. You also, of course have a social 128 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: media presence which has in a very short time created 129 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: a really supportive community for a lot of people. What 130 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: inspired you to transition into a very public role in 131 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: terms of your diagnosis and dealing with psoriasis and soriatic arthritis. 132 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 3: So when I started this in March of twenty twenty four, 133 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: I had absolutely no idea where it would take me 134 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 3: at all. 135 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: I felt honestly, really bad. 136 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: I was really struggling with my self esteem and my confidence, 137 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: and I never had seen anybody ever that looked the 138 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: way that I did at that point. And I got 139 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: on social media. I got on Instagram, and I found 140 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: some girls that were doing that, and I was like, 141 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, these women are so beautiful, Like why 142 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: am I beating myself up right now? So then it 143 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 3: just hit me and I was like, you know what, 144 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: I'm going to be this for somebody else. I'm going 145 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 3: to try and do this for somebody else, and that 146 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: way they can look somebody up and find me and 147 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: they can feel better too. 148 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: And it definitely got a lot bigger than I ever 149 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: thought it would. 150 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: There's definitely been an appetite online for your story, because 151 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: while you might not have seen other people that looked 152 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: a lot like you, there are a lot of people 153 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: who need that validation of seeing someone else who's open 154 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: and honest about what they're going through. So, as you said, 155 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: you just started this in March of twenty twenty four 156 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: or and it's grown very, very quickly. So are you 157 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: super conscious of this community that has grown so rapidly 158 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: with you? 159 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I really do like to refer to my followers 160 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: on my account as more of my community than just 161 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: like followers, because we're all in this together. 162 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: We really are a community of people. You know. I 163 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: love talking to people when they message me, and it's amazing. 164 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious though, how much that flips back to you. 165 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: How has connecting with all of those other people online 166 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: who are benefiting from your vocal nature on your platform 167 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: influenced your perspective on your daily life and your condition 168 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: and your advocacy. 169 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 3: You know, it's really interesting because, like I said, when 170 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: I started this, I was having so many issues with 171 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: like my self esteem and my confidence and. 172 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: Things like that. 173 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: But in doing this and meeting so many people worldwide 174 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 3: that are going through the exact same thing, it has 175 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 3: given me such a confidence boost. As I know it's 176 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: also given them. I'm not alone, and neither is the 177 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 3: person on the other side of the screen right now. 178 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: One of the things I always love hearing from people 179 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: on this show when we talk about them building those communities, 180 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: is how much they talk about their benefit from doing 181 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: it in terms of exactly that, like their headspace shifts 182 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: in a really beautiful way. I want to talk though, 183 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: about what might be a harder part of this, which 184 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: is navigating a chronic condition within the medical community. What 185 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: has that journey been like for you? Everyone? It seems 186 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: like that deals with any of these diagnoses really has 187 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: to advocate, find their voice, go through a lot of 188 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: different trial and error type things. What has your story 189 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: been in that regard. 190 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: When I was first psagnosed, I was given the topical 191 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 3: steroids and like a steroid shampoo. 192 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: I was seeing a cosmetic dermatologist. They do botox and 193 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: plastic surgery and things like that. But as my illness progressed, 194 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 2: I had to switch to medical dermatology. And this is 195 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: where you hear more of the trimethyl truck say here's 196 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: some more steroids. And that wasn't an option for me 197 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: last year because I was pregnant, so I was forced 198 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: to dive into natural healing the way that I did 199 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: because my baby was more important to me. 200 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: Even though you're so young, you have had years and 201 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: years of dealing with this at various levels. Is there 202 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: something that you wish eighteen year old India knew about 203 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: how this journey was going to go. 204 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 3: It's not one treatment fits all, it's not a you know, 205 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: every single person can benefit from the exact same form 206 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: of treatment. 207 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: I appreciate that someone in your age group is sharing 208 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: all of these trials and tribulations, because that is an 209 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: age when a lot of people feel still very self 210 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: conscious and very hyper aware of how they look. So 211 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: big ups to you, thank you so much. You're right 212 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: that one size fits all treatment just does not exist. 213 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: But one place, the Dead Sea, has played a recurring 214 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: role in some of our most profound discoveries relating to 215 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: chronic skin conditions like psoriasis. We're going to talk more 216 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: about that in our history section, and we'll get into 217 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: it after we take a quick break. So, India, I 218 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: want you to picture this. You are standing on the 219 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: shores of the Dead Sea. The water before you is 220 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: very thick with salt. The Dead Sea has about a 221 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: thirty four percent salinity level. That's nearly ten times saltier 222 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: than the ocean that you're probably more exposed to. But 223 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: you're not here for a beach vacation. You are here 224 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: for a treatment that sounds almost mythical. Floating in the sea, 225 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: basking in the sun with the promise that your psoriasis 226 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: so those painful scaly patches might disappear entirely. Doesn't that 227 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: sound like heaven? Yeah? 228 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: It does. 229 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 4: I've totally heard of this before too. It's awesome, right, 230 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: And it's not like wellness fluff. This isn't something that 231 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 4: people are just making up. It is actual medicine. It 232 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 4: is supported by decades of clinical observation. Collaborative research has 233 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 4: been done, thousands of patient experiences have gone towards measuring this, 234 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 4: and at the center of this effort are researchers like 235 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 4: a man named doctor David J. Ables, whose nineteen ninety 236 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 4: five retrospective study of more than fourteen hundred patients helped 237 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 4: quantify what a lot of patients had already been claiming 238 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 4: for years. 239 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: Fourteen hundred. 240 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, more than that. We're going to talk a little 241 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: bit about his study in just a minute, because even 242 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: before him, the modern study of the dead sea climatotherapy 243 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: had some other important champions that I want to talk about. 244 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: Among them was a woman named doctor Sarah Brenner. She 245 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: was a pioneering dermatologist and dedicated a lot of her 246 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: career to understanding how the unique climate and mineral rich 247 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: waters of the Dead Sea could help patients with psoriasis 248 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: and other chronic skin conditions. And doctor Brenner is unique 249 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: because she really stands out as an early proponent of 250 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: turning those anecdotal successes and the stories behind them into 251 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: actual structured scientific protocols. So she collaborated on studies that 252 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: really moved the understanding forward regarding how the Dead Sea 253 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: environment could affect various skin diseases. Her academic work was 254 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: being done in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, and 255 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: it focused on optimizing treatment schedules and adjusting UV exposure 256 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: for different skin types, and also integrating therapies like pouva 257 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: with climatology and climata therapy. I love this so much. 258 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: I love a little science on science act. 259 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really cool. 260 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: I also have some examples of what she did, so 261 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: doctor Brenner was involved in trials that explored the use 262 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: of oral sorelin, which is a photosensitizing agent combined with 263 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: solar exposure. That is what I just referenced a moment 264 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: ago known as puva puva sun therapy, and she did 265 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: this at the Dead Sea. And these studies were scientific, 266 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: so they required a lot of careful, careful control. It 267 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: was carefully scheduled sun exposure, gradual dose increases, and really 268 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: closely monitoring patients so that they were balancing efficacy and safety. 269 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: And she ended up co authoring papers that evaluated how 270 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: climatotherapy affected vitamin D metabolism as well as immune marker. 271 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: So this added a lot of important data to this field. 272 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: I marveled that this was happening not until the nineteen eighties, 273 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: even though people have been trying to treat these and 274 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: there have been other scientific efforts before this, but this 275 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: is such an ancient and well known place. Yeah that 276 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm like nineteen eighties really, but thank goodness, Like if 277 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: you had been born just a few decades earlier, you 278 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: might not have all the benefits available that you have 279 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: today to try to explore veriod o True's we have 280 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: come a variable long way in a very short time. Here. 281 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: Her collaborations extended to a variety of key figures, including 282 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: doctor Willie W. Average, major force behind Dead Seas, Rie clinics. 283 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: She worked closely with colleagues from climata therapy centers and 284 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: dermatology departments to refine these treatment regimens that they were developing. 285 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: So again balancing safe sun exposure, which we're going to 286 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: talk about some fascinated by it with therapeutic benefits. So 287 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: they were carefully timing the water immersion, they were tailoring 288 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: protocols to each patient's skin type and tolerance, and her work, 289 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: including innovative studies that combined solar exposure with therapies like 290 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: sorelin puva, helped establish climata therapy as a structured, scientifically 291 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: supported medical approach. So this idea of no, this place 292 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: is a healing thing. 293 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: I No, it's amazing. 294 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: And people talk about all the time how they get 295 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 3: some sun and sea and their ssurrisis goes away on vacation. 296 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, it's awesome. That is a very common 297 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: thing that people will say. 298 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 299 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: The groundwork though, actually for this we shouldn't say that 300 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't happening entirely until the eighties, because by the 301 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: early twentieth century, the medical community had recognized already that 302 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: sunlight in protiarticular could help clear skin diseases. So in 303 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five, American dermatologist William Gokerman, if anybody listened 304 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: to Season one, yes, that is the same guy. You 305 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: know him, he's our old friend. He discovered that combining 306 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: coal tar with ultraviolet light dramatically improves psoriasis. That's not glamorous. 307 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: The patients often stank of tar in his ciles work, 308 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: and their sheets would get permanently stained. But it did work. 309 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: You nodded throughout this. 310 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, so one of my favorite shampoos actually has 311 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: coltar in it. 312 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it still gets used. I think people may not 313 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: realize that coltar is still part of a lot of treatments, 314 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: usually as an ingredient, not just smearing it on your person. 315 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: It is still part of the party. Crucially, this work 316 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: gave medical legitimacy to something humans had suspected since ancient times. 317 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: We've talked about it that sunlight, especially UBV rays, could 318 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: do more than just sued symptoms. Sunlight could slow the 319 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: hyperactive immune response. It's actually at the root of the disease. 320 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: So by the nineteen fifties that theory had also evolved again. 321 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: Researchers like EJ. Van Scott helped show that psoriasis was 322 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: not merely a surface issue. This is where we get 323 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: into the important part. It's an autoimmune disorder. And he 324 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: helped identify that fact, and that little piece of knowledge. 325 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: I say little, but it's huge reframed absolutely everything that 326 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: people knew. The value of UVB was not that it 327 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: was burning off plaques, which is what people had believed 328 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: prior to that, it was actually calming the immune processes 329 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: that was causing those plaques. Yeah, you have talked about 330 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: uv light therapy in your treatments. What is that like? 331 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: Tell us what your protocol is. 332 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, So last year when I was really bad, I 333 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: was doing UVB laser treatments. Did it twice a week. 334 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: It was about an hour each time, and I did 335 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 3: that for seven months straight and that's what got me 336 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 3: to be now ninety percent clear and lasting. 337 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: What is that treatment like? 338 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: So I went to a clinic and it's like this 339 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 3: big machine and it has a laser connected to it 340 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 3: and they would just basically give me like sunburns all 341 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: over my whole body. 342 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: So are they targeting specific places that are having flare 343 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: ups or are they giving like a general dosage. 344 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 3: It is like a general dosage, but it's targeted to 345 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: each spot. Commonly people use it for their knees and 346 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 3: their elbows, so they'll do it, you know where it is. 347 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: But what was super interesting to me was I never 348 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: once did any treatment on my legs, but because I 349 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 3: was doing treatment everywhere else, my leg's clear too, and 350 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 3: my legs were really bad, so it definitely was like 351 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: a full body experience. 352 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: This kind of dovetails on that because phototherapy boots. The 353 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: early version of what you're talking about probably arrived in 354 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: hospitals in the nineteen sixties, and then it was ten 355 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: years later that dermatologists like doctor Hermann Honingzmann in Vienna 356 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: were reporting high remission rates using controlled UVB exposure. But 357 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: there was an interesting little wrinkle in the data here 358 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: because in dermatologists records all throughout Europe when they compared them, 359 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: one group of patients kept out performing the others in 360 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: terms of their response to treatment, and those were people 361 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: who had spent time at the Dead Sea. So clearly 362 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: there's something going on there. And the Dead Sea, to 363 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: be clear, is not just a salty lake. It is 364 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: a very unique kind of natural laboratory. It actually sits 365 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: fourteen hundred feet below sea level, so it has the 366 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: densest atmosphere on Earth, and that heavy atmospheric layer creates 367 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: a natural filter, so it's naturally reducing all of the 368 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: harmful radiation that we associate with sun exposure while letting 369 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: therapeutic raise through. This is the coolest thing. Start to me, Listen, 370 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: I'm a very pale person. I can't be in the 371 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: sun for more than a second. Misa, I start feeling it. 372 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: So I'm like, that's very cool. It means that patients 373 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: can tolerate longer sun exposure without burning, which if you're 374 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: trying to treat something like psoriasis, is a huge, huge benefit. 375 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: But the water's mineral content is also a unique part 376 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: of the puzzle because it contains things like magnesium, bromide, 377 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: and calcium, and all of those may also be helping 378 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: to reduce inflammation and support skin barrier function and promote healing. 379 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: And the water's density, because of that high salt concentration, 380 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: makes patients float effortlessly. Everybody's talked about how easy it 381 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: is to float in the dead sea, but what you 382 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: may not think about is the fact that that means 383 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: more of your skin can be exposed to sunlight than 384 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: if you were just at a regular beach, which is 385 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: again really cool. So as interest in dead seat therapy grew. 386 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: As scientists were piecing this together, they also started to 387 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: develop structured programs there under medical supervision. Patients followed these 388 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: carefully timed and developed regimens, so there would be early 389 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: morning sunbathing, midday floating, and then gradual increases in exposure 390 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: time to build tolerance and maximize benefits. 391 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 3: I wonder how long it took, like in total, for 392 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: people to start really seeing symptiment improvement. 393 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have the data on that at hand, 394 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: but it seems like it was really quite quick in 395 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: terms of believe it of that. I also just love 396 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: the idea of somebody being like, I'm gonna prescribe you 397 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: a midday float. 398 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: I'd like, yeah, that sounds go to the beach. 399 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: Can I get prescribed that? Because I love a good float. 400 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: So these treatments typically started with numbers we've talked about already, 401 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of sun per day, and then they would 402 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: increase that to several hours over a period of days, 403 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: depending on the patient's skin type and also taking into 404 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: account seasonal uv index, water immersion was often prescribed before 405 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: sun exposure, and that combination enhance the therapeutic effect. This 406 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: goes back to what you were saying about. Yeah, a 407 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: little sun and sea and sand time, Yeah combined helps 408 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: out a lot. And so by the early nineteen nineties, 409 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: when all of this really started to be quantified, the 410 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: Dead Sea became kind of a global phenomenon. Patients from 411 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: Europe and North America there. Some of them had government 412 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: subsidized medical programs that actually sent them there, others had 413 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: fed their own way, and the results are really promising. 414 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: But then in the mid nineteen nineties, dermatology was still 415 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: lacking this large scale quantitative study that could withstand scientific scrutiny. 416 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: So it has to go through peer review. Everybody has 417 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: to agree that the data is real and beneficial. And 418 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five this changed and we got the 419 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: thing we referenced earlier. That was when doctor David j. Abeles, 420 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: who was then based at the Dead Sea Research Center, 421 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: published one of the largest retrospective analyzes ever undertaken for 422 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: Sirias's treatment. And he did that at the Dead Sea. 423 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: His team reviewed data from fourteen hundred forty eight patients 424 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: between the ages of sixteen and seventy eight, many of 425 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: whom had been referred after conventional therapies failed. So their 426 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: disease ranged from moderate to severe, and some of them 427 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: also had applicable to your situation, soriatic arthritis. Yeah, patients 428 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: were evaluated using the psiasis Area and Severity index that's 429 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: also called PAUSEY for short. That's considered the gold standard 430 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: for quantifying soriasis symptoms. And then these patients followed these 431 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: standardized protocols the fifteen minutes sun exposure, initially, water immersion, 432 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: rest gradual progression based on how their skin was responding 433 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: and their UV tolerance. So I don't have the time 434 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: that they were treated, but the results were very dramatic. 435 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: Eighty eight percent of participants showed eighty to one hundred 436 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: percent PAUSEY improvement, and fifty eight percent experienced complete skin clearance. 437 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: It's incredible. Yeah, I would assume it's pretty quick. 438 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty eight of them had complete skin clearance, which 439 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: is incredible. A lot of them stayed in remission for 440 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: months after they left, although long term follow up data 441 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: after several months did vary a little bit. More so, 442 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: of course, this sounds like a great time hanging out seaside. 443 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Like I know you have mentioned in some other interviews 444 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: that like you love an EPSOM salt bath. 445 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 2: I do. 446 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I know we've already talked a little bit 447 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: about symptoms easing up after you spend some time at 448 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: the beach. How fast does that usually impact and help you? 449 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: I mean, just that home aspect of it, of doing 450 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: the EPSOM salt baths and the UVB therapy and clinic 451 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 2: that I did last year, that was like my holy grail, 452 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: that was what got me here. 453 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: I'm actually going to the beach next week, so I 454 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: will have to update everybody and let you know how 455 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: it goes. Back the combination really I fully attributed it, Tom, 456 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: Why I am clear? 457 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: Now? How fast is your response? Usually in terms of benefit. 458 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: It's quick. 459 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: And that's why I wondered, like with going to the 460 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: actual dead sea, how fast it can be for you, 461 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 3: because just at home with EBSOM salt and the UVB, 462 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 3: I've gotten clear so quick. 463 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: Nice. So, of course, just as these dead sea benefits 464 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: and their therapies were gaining widespread medical acceptance, there was 465 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: also some other interesting science happening. The age of biologics 466 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: was donning so Starting in the early two thousands, drugs 467 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: that targeted immune pathways, like TNF alpha inhibitors and later 468 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: Aisle seventeen blockers, started offering patients similar clearance rates without 469 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: having to travel to the Dead Sea to get them. 470 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: Some people have seen biologics as the final word in treatment, 471 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: but a lot of dermatologists emphasize that clamatotherapy can coexist 472 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: with modern pharmacology and offer patients a non invasive alternative 473 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: or a complementary approach depending on needs and access, and 474 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: for some the Dead Sea represented more than just a 475 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: medical treatment. Right. It may clear you up, but it 476 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: also creates this profound experience of healing and renewal. Todaylmatotherapy 477 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: at the Dead Sea remains a respected option for a 478 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: lot of patients with psoriasis and other skin conditions, and 479 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: there are still governments, particularly in Europe, that will fund 480 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: patient travel to go there. The Dream clinics continue to 481 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: operate there and patient groups will also organize seasonal visits 482 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of patients. The experience is really unforgettable 483 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of people that that's the 484 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: first time they go swimming without shame or embarrassment, and 485 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: it's the first time they see themselves and not just 486 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: their skin condition or their disease reflected in the mirror, 487 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: which is huge for somebody. Of course, it seems like 488 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: a magical place at that point. And at the heart 489 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: of this journey from anecdote to hard science, there were 490 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: pioneering researchers who were asking the crucial question, could the 491 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: stories that patients told about healing be measured, tested, and 492 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: then translated into evidence based protocols, and in doing so 493 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: they help transform the Dead Sea from a legendary cure 494 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: to a medically recognized therapy. I mean it is incredible. 495 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 1: You know, everybody talks about their Dead Sea mud mask. 496 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 2: I've had people message me and say, oh, you should 497 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: come to the Dead Sea. 498 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: Well, clearly you should. 499 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: Maybe I should go. 500 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: I mean I feel like we all should. 501 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: Seriously. 502 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: On the one hand, I'm like everyone should go, and 503 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: on the other I'm like, leave space to the people 504 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: who maybe have a condition that needs treatment. But it 505 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: also sounds really quite like a spectacular visit. One thing 506 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: that you talked about developing your Holy Grail combination is 507 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: that everyone needs to really carefully craft the care regimen 508 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: that works specifically for them because everybody is different and 509 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: reacts to different things differently, and it seems like that 510 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: is exactly what you have done. You've taken a really 511 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: broad based approach to your care. You've mentioned your diet 512 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: being cleaned up as a big part of keeping you 513 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: healthy as well as other therapies. It takes a real mix. 514 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: How much experimenting did you have to do before you 515 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: found like the sweet spot. 516 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: When I first started this whole journey, I knew that 517 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 2: dary was a really big trigger for me. So that 518 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: was the first thing last year. I was like, Okay, 519 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: we're done. And then I found out about night shades, tomatoes, eggplants, cayenne, 520 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: like all of those things, spicy stuff. Basically, I was like, Okay, 521 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: that's done too, So sad gluten. Gluten's a really big one. 522 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 2: I try and see as gluten free as it possibly can. 523 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 3: There's so many more options, I think than people realize 524 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 3: when it comes to healing yourself, Like you don't have 525 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: to go with a medication, you don't have to go natural, 526 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: but you have that choice, right. 527 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: And it seems like even if you're on a medication, 528 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: pursuing other things that will naturally help your body be 529 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: in a better state of health is always going. Yeah, 530 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: it's like a balancing act all the time to manage 531 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: ongoing chronic conditions. We have two more questions for you. Okay, 532 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: these are the questions we always ask. First of all, 533 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: I would love your suggestions for people who maybe don't 534 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: have psoriasis themselves, but they love someone who does and 535 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: they want to be helpful and supportive. What suggestions or 536 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: advice do you give those people? 537 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: Oh? 538 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 3: I love this question. I've been asked this before and 539 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 3: I love it. My biggest piece of advice to those 540 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 3: who are supporting somebody in their life that has an 541 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: autoimmune disease like zoriasis is to know that it is 542 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 3: not just skin deep. It is so much deeper than that, 543 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 3: and it's not something that is contagious. It's not something 544 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: that they can necessarily control. There's so much that goes 545 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: into it, and it's it's not a quick fix. 546 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: Got to have patience, a long and your thing. 547 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 3: Patience, compassion. It's a lot more difficult to deal with 548 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: than people recognize. 549 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: Too. 550 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: Last, but not least, and I suspect this is something 551 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: you have done many times with your platform online. If 552 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: you could send one message to our listeners who might 553 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: be grappling with their own diagnosis, maybe at the beginning 554 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: of their journey. What would that message be. 555 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 3: Your skin does not define you. The way that your 556 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 3: skin look does not determine who you are as a person. 557 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: You're worth your capability, reach your goals, shoot for the star. 558 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it, India. Thank you so 559 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: much for spending this time with me, for being so 560 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: incredibly open and sharing all of your story. I really 561 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: appreciate it. 562 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 563 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: Our Skin is hosted by myself, Holly Frye, and executive 564 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our executive producer and 565 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share 566 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: it with your friends. You can also listen and follow 567 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 568 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: your podcasts.