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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: He had his fingers in so many pies that there

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Speaker 2: were any number of people who had some beef with him.

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Speaker 3: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor

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Speaker 3: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the

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Speaker 3: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career,

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Speaker 3: research for my many audio and book projects has taken

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Speaker 3: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down

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Speaker 3: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers,

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Speaker 3: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true

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Speaker 3: crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both

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Speaker 3: good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the

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Speaker 3: unpublished details behind their stories. This is our second ESPN

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Speaker 3: story about the intersection between sports and murder. ESPN was

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Speaker 3: asked by the Miami Dade Police to look into the

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six murder of a star football player

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Speaker 3: at the University of Miami. What reporter Paula Levine found

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Speaker 3: was a complicated victim, a questionable suspect, and a police

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Speaker 3: department that likely regrets calling ESPN to begin with she

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Speaker 3: tells me about the story at the center of her podcast,

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Speaker 3: Murder at the U. How did you run across this story?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the story's been around for a long time,

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Speaker 3: I guess sort of.

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Speaker 2: So I think I'll start with saying how ESPN in

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Speaker 2: general got involved in it, and then how I got

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Speaker 2: involved in it, which is an interesting story into itself,

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Speaker 2: because something happened that rarely, if ever, in fact, it's

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Speaker 2: never happened to me, happened in this case, which is

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Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen, someone from the Miami Dade Police

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Speaker 2: Department sends an email to someone at ESPN asking if

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Speaker 2: they would be interested in doing a story on the

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Speaker 2: unsolved murder of Brian Patta, and they were hoping to

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Speaker 2: do like a little feature on college game Day. And

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Speaker 2: for people who aren't familiar with ESPN, college Game Day

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Speaker 2: is like a weekly feature show that runs along with whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, college football games are being broadcast that day.

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Speaker 2: And this really was I mean, most of the stuff

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Speaker 2: they do is you know, featury, right, it's it's sort

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Speaker 2: of lighthearted.

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Speaker 1: This was a little darker than that.

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Speaker 2: And so the producer Ben Weber, it's one of the

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Speaker 2: producers who had that initial contact was thinking, well, this

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Speaker 2: really isn't college game day material, but he was interested

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Speaker 2: and wanted to start taking look at it for maybe

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Speaker 2: a different type of format for ESPN.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things.

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Speaker 2: That he and others came across pretty quickly was this

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Speaker 2: press conference at the Miami Dade Police Department had done

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Speaker 2: with the family of Brian Patta. Back in November seventh,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and six, Brian Patta, who is a twenty

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Speaker 2: two year old football player for the University of Miami,

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Speaker 2: was shot dead outside of his apartment complex, and his

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Speaker 2: murder went unsolved for many many for more ten years.

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Speaker 2: And so in twenty seventeen, the Miami Dad Police Department

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Speaker 2: has this press conference with the family and they say

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Speaker 2: that they're doing it and same reason that they're contacting us,

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Speaker 2: they want to get some media coverage out there so

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Speaker 2: they can maybe encourage someone to come forward who might

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Speaker 2: have information about the case. And so we see this

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Speaker 2: press conference, and in this press conference, Brian Patta's mom, Jeanette,

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Speaker 2: the family's Haitian, and so she has this really thick accent.

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Speaker 2: She kind of goes off script and she starts talking

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Speaker 2: about how the Miami Dade police department isn't investigating the case,

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Speaker 2: like they don't care. It's gone on so long, and

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Speaker 2: it was like wow, like she just was like really

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Speaker 2: holding them to task. And I think that was one

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Speaker 2: thing that got Ben and others interested in, like, let's

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Speaker 2: take a look at this, because you know, we think

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Speaker 2: there's something there, and maybe not for this feature program

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Speaker 2: we have, but maybe let's do something and dive in

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Speaker 2: and investigate a little further. And other reporters got other

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Speaker 2: journalists got involved, producer Dana Ruda, Scott Frankel is, another producer,

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Speaker 2: my another one of my colleagues, reporter Elizabeth Merrill. They

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Speaker 2: all started digging into it. And it was a few

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Speaker 2: months later that I got pulled into it as well,

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Speaker 2: because I have a background investigative reporting and requesting public records,

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Speaker 2: and they were trying to get records out of the

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Speaker 2: police department and they were trying to background people, and

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Speaker 2: so I kind of got pulled into this whole thing.

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Speaker 2: And even on first glance, it was like this is

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Speaker 2: this is really interesting, Like there's there's something here to

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Speaker 2: look at, you know, obviously because this case was unsolved,

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Speaker 2: but it became you know interesting early on. What was

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Speaker 2: happening with the police investigation itself.

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Speaker 1: Now, is this right?

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Speaker 3: It's an eleven year span between when he was murdered

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Speaker 3: and when this press conference is being held.

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Speaker 1: When his mom goes off script.

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Speaker 2: I was murdered in November of two thousand and six,

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Speaker 2: and the press conference was I can't remember exactly when

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Speaker 2: it was, somewhere around twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So what prompted after eleven years for this. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure it's not a close case at that point, but

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Speaker 3: you know, what prompted this the press conference?

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Speaker 1: We're not entirely sure.

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Speaker 2: I think based on conversations with the family just there,

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Speaker 2: you know, I maybe realizing that it's coming close to

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Speaker 2: this mile marker anniversary, and they had been they'd been

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Speaker 2: trying to reach you know, initially in the first months,

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Speaker 2: even a couple of years after, they had pretty good

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Speaker 2: contact with the police department. But I think over the

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Speaker 2: years they just kept pestering them, like why aren't you

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Speaker 2: doing anything? Why aren't you doing anything? And you know,

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Speaker 2: I just think that this press conference and the outreach

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Speaker 2: to ESPN was maybe their way of saying, Okay, well

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Speaker 2: let's do something, and so let's you know, show them

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Speaker 2: that we're making an effort.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's go back and we know who the

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Speaker 3: victim is.

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Speaker 1: We know it's Brian.

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Speaker 3: I have to assume that this is a if we

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Speaker 3: go back into his childhood, this had to have been

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Speaker 3: a kid who's been playing football forever.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? And where did he grow up? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he grew up in the.

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Speaker 2: Little Haiti neighborhood of Miami, which you know is a

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Speaker 2: pretty impoverished area. I mean, his you know, parents, we

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Speaker 2: were Haitian. He's the youngest of nine siblings, mostly raised

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Speaker 2: by their mother, Jeannette, and Jeanette moved them, you know,

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Speaker 2: all over the place, trying to work different jobs. And

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Speaker 2: it was early, early on that that Brian and his

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Speaker 2: brothers really got into football. But he was by far

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Speaker 2: the shining star of the group. And you know, he

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Speaker 2: was highly touted high school recruit. He had offers from

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Speaker 2: lots of different places, and he wanted to stay close

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Speaker 2: to home, stay close to his mom, And it just

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Speaker 2: so happened that the University of Miami football team was

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Speaker 2: on fire. There they were and you know, have been

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Speaker 2: for a long time with one of the best legendary

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Speaker 2: college football programs in the nation, and you know, he

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Speaker 2: and he was able to go there and it was

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Speaker 2: just it was the perfect thing and one of the

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Speaker 2: you know, it was interesting because he would tell people

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Speaker 2: sometimes that it wasn't he wasn't playing football because he

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Speaker 2: was like, love football and had a passion for football.

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Speaker 2: He and like many kids, not just in Miami, but

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Speaker 2: like many kids in poor neighborhoods who don't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of opportunities, he saw football as a way out

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Speaker 2: of his situation, not just for him but for his family.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that in many many conversations

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Speaker 2: that we've had with his siblings, like his thing was,

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Speaker 2: I want to get to the NFL.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to buy my mom house.

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Speaker 3: What did Jeannette say he was like as a kid

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Speaker 3: before we get to him in high school years and stuff.

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Speaker 3: Nine kids, that's a lot to keep up with, especially

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Speaker 3: for one woman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he was. He was the baby of

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Speaker 2: the family. He was very very close to his mom.

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Speaker 2: I mean even I mean he's you know, big guys

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Speaker 2: and a big football player, and even as he got older,

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Speaker 2: you know, he was like to be close to her,

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Speaker 2: you know, snuggle up with her. He just was and

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Speaker 2: as he you know, got older, and as he got

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Speaker 2: into high school and college, he was really known as

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Speaker 2: a big personality. He was a prankster. He was he

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Speaker 2: was jokester. He you know, loved music, he loved cars.

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Speaker 2: He in college he had this, like for one of

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Speaker 2: the football bowl games, got a video recorder, you know.

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Speaker 2: And thankfully for us and for everybody he had that

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Speaker 2: because he recorded himself and he recorded his friends, and

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Speaker 2: it's it's great memories for the family, but it was

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Speaker 2: also good for someone who didn't know him to get

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Speaker 2: a look at him and just his personality and his

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Speaker 2: laugh and his smile and all the things he was

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Speaker 2: passionate about. And he just he had a lot of

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Speaker 2: varied interests.

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Speaker 1: Like he was. He was a big personality.

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Speaker 3: So you know, based on the area where he grew up,

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Speaker 3: there had to been a lot of temptations for him

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Speaker 3: to deviate from a positive path, you know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of opportunities. I don't know if it would be being

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Speaker 3: involved in drugs or whatever. But did he ever get

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Speaker 3: in trouble? Was he really on the straight and narrow

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Speaker 3: this whole time through high school?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think in terms of that neighborhood, you're right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that we say in

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Speaker 2: the Murder at You podcast is if you heard a

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Speaker 2: headline coming out of Little Haiti at that time, it

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Speaker 2: was about a homicide. It was a dangerous neighborhood, and

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of gangs. There were Haitian gangs,

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Speaker 2: there were rival gangs. There was a lot of gang activity. Now,

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Speaker 2: no one has ever had any indication that Brian was

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Speaker 2: a member of a gang. There were people with these

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Speaker 2: gangs who knew Brian, and he knew them and you know,

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Speaker 2: and associated with them, but never no one ever said

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Speaker 2: he was a member of a gang or got involved

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Speaker 2: with drugs. I mean, in all the background that we

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Speaker 2: did on him, there were minor things, but nothing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was never anyone see as a troublemaker or someone

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Speaker 2: who had a you know, a bad, bad rap, bad

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Speaker 2: background or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: So he gets into University of Miami, is there a

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Speaker 3: ranking system like he's going to step in freshman year

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Speaker 3: and start or how big of a recruit was he?

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Speaker 1: He was a pretty highly tired recruit.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have the I don't have the

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Speaker 2: exact stats on that, but he you know, he rose

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly into a player that people started seeing as

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Speaker 2: a potential NFL talent. And you know, at the at

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Speaker 2: the time of his death, you know, people we were

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Speaker 2: looking at fully expecting him to be in the two

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Speaker 2: thousand and seven NFL Draft as a second or third

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Speaker 2: round draft pick. I mean, he had he had changed positions.

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Speaker 2: You know, he had a really good relationship with his coach.

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Speaker 2: He was popular among his teammates, like you know, he

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Speaker 2: was absolutely destined for the next level.

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Speaker 1: In fact, one of the one of the saddest things.

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Speaker 2: About the story is he had already bought the suit

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Speaker 2: that he was going to wear for his you know,

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Speaker 2: NFL draft announcement, and that's the suit that he was

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Speaker 2: buried in.

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Speaker 1: That's awful. And he stayed close with his siblings as

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Speaker 1: the other eight siblings, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was closer to like because you know,

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Speaker 2: some of there was quite a gap in age, but

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Speaker 2: but there were Yeah, he was very, very close to

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Speaker 2: his siblings and they would have family dinners. He would

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Speaker 2: bring his teammates over for the family dinners. One of

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Speaker 2: his ended up being his roommate Dwayne Hendrix, is his

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Speaker 2: family's Jamaican. He said he would go over to Brian's

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Speaker 2: house and he said, you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: parallels between you know, Jamaican and Haitian, you know, cuisine stuff,

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Speaker 2: and he's like it just he said, you know, it

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Speaker 2: just seemed like I was part of the family like that.

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Speaker 1: That family is a very tight, very tight.

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Speaker 3: And so his mom must have just been over the

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Speaker 3: moon watching him play on television.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh my gosh. Absolutely, yeah, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was. He was.

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Speaker 2: I mean when you know, when he ascended and you know,

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Speaker 2: became an intergral part of the team like he was.

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Speaker 2: He was in almost every game, he was a starter,

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Speaker 2: he was on TV. Yeah, absolutely, she had many opportunities

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Speaker 2: to see him.

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Speaker 3: Now, I am not an expert on college football or

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Speaker 3: the NFL, frankly, but especially college football. I do know

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Speaker 3: that Miami had quite a reputation, and I wonder and

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Speaker 3: sometimes it's been really good, and sometimes it hasn't been.

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Speaker 1: What era were we in with Miami? Where this was?

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Speaker 3: You know, I mean sometimes it sounded like some of

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Speaker 3: the players went off the rails, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: just wondering where we are when he's there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think if you go back way further,

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Speaker 2: like you know in the eighties and nineties, I mean

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Speaker 2: there was there were a lot of players who they

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Speaker 2: had some issues, and you know, there was this big

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Speaker 2: rivalry with Notre Dame and at the time they called

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Speaker 2: it the Catholics versus the Convicts, you know, and so

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Speaker 2: they had this they had this real reputation of you know,

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Speaker 2: being the bad boys, right, And when Brian was looking

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Speaker 2: at going to the University of Miami, like let's say,

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Speaker 2: like in the two thousand and one ish era, like

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Speaker 2: those teams today people would argue were some of the

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Speaker 2: best college football teams in history. Like the number of

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Speaker 2: players that they sent to the NFL were incredible.

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Speaker 1: And I remember this vividly.

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Speaker 2: I'm a graduate of the University of Nebraska, and you know,

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Speaker 2: Nebraska played Miami back then. And I hate to say

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Speaker 2: that when the Epic Games lost to Miami, which I

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Speaker 2: remember quite vividly, but they were the essence of swagger

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Speaker 2: and that was kind of the environment that he was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Coral Gables is quite essential. Like Miami. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's lots of parties, there's lots of beautiful people,

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Speaker 2: there's nightclubs. I mean, it's just that whole culture that

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Speaker 2: also then just sort of fees into that University of

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Speaker 2: Miami vibe.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I teach the University of Texas under

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Speaker 3: three times with football, so I get a taste of that,

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Speaker 3: you know, the kind of the way these guys can.

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Speaker 1: Be really revered.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So I wonder what that culture is like

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Speaker 3: at the University of Miami and you you know, you're

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Speaker 3: kind of hinting, does it stretch out beyond the university

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Speaker 3: and everybody is courting these guys just because they're sort

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Speaker 3: of locally nationally famous or what was it like?

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Speaker 1: What was his life like from a social perspective?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean he was He was a guy who

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Speaker 2: he liked you know, he liked going to night clubs

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Speaker 2: and nightclubs, liked having him and his friends. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is universal whether you're in Austin or Miami or Lincoln, Nebraska.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're a football player, the establishments like having

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Speaker 2: you there, like people will come there because you are there,

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Speaker 2: right and in Miami being a big city, and also

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Speaker 2: just you know, being a destination for a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it just sort of took on another level.

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Speaker 2: And he had you know, he had other interests.

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Speaker 1: He was really into fixing up cars and blinging out

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Speaker 1: cars and like that also kind of goes with that

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Speaker 1: whole Miami sort of vibe thing, and he you know,

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Speaker 1: he really got into that.

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Speaker 3: So is there any controversy or anything around like these

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Speaker 3: guys are getting compensated in any way? How would you

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Speaker 3: reward somebody like Brian without breaking any rules?

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Speaker 1: Because I have to think that he gets rewards somehow. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's a whole I mean yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like one of the things and we kind of go

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Speaker 2: into this a bit in the podcast, is that at

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Speaker 2: this time there's money swirling around my University of Miami

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Speaker 2: players like you wouldn't believe. I mean boosters providing cash,

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Speaker 2: providing parties.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of the people we talk about is Nevin Shapiro,

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Speaker 2: who you know, has all this money and he has

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Speaker 2: the players onto his yacht and he provides them with

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Speaker 2: with all sorts of things, including women, and he ends up,

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Speaker 2: for reasons outside of that, going to prison.

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Speaker 1: But in that whole process, you know, the money.

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Speaker 2: That he gets them ends up landing the University of

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Speaker 2: Miami in some hot water with the NCAAA. Now, the

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Speaker 2: idea of boosters giving athletes a lot of money is

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Speaker 2: not unique to the University of Miami and for people

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Speaker 2: who don't follow college sports at that time, that was

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Speaker 2: not allowed, like you would lose your eligibility, your university

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Speaker 2: would have to vacate wins. The situation is much different

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Speaker 2: now and I don't even want to touch that.

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Speaker 3: The whole other story tell me about University of Miami

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Speaker 3: team culture. Literally with these guys, I know, there's rivalries.

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Speaker 3: There has to be, I mean, you're going for shorting

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Speaker 3: spots and all of that. Did he seem to get

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Speaker 3: along with everybody? Did he have competition anywhere? Was it strustful?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: He seemed to be pretty well liked. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: I said, he was sort of seen as a as

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Speaker 2: a jokester, as a prankster. You know, he was someone

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about with our in the podcast. Like

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Speaker 2: part of some of the great footage we have is

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Speaker 2: from this reporter from the Miami Herald, Manning of who

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Speaker 2: was kind of like for anyone who knows what MTV

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Speaker 2: Cribs is, like the show that they would do like

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Speaker 2: on the you know, the houses of you know, wealthy

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Speaker 2: rock stars and stuff. Manny wanted to do something like

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Speaker 2: that with the Hurricanes, and like one of the first

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Speaker 2: players he picked is Brian because he was such a

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Speaker 2: such a gregarious guy, and like, you know, everybody seemed

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Speaker 2: to like him.

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Speaker 1: He was, you know, it was pretty cool and very welcoming.

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Speaker 1: And you know, just.

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Speaker 2: Hearing him on the on that tape, he's he's pretty funny,

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Speaker 2: and but he was. Yeah, I mean, he was doing

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Speaker 2: a lot of the same things his other teammates are doing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think one thing, you know, you sort

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Speaker 2: of asked about culture and I mentioned this because it does,

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Speaker 2: you know, become important later on, is you know, these

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Speaker 2: athletes they also they also like to have guns.

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Speaker 1: Oh and in Florida they legally could.

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Speaker 2: And there was an incident the summer before Brian was

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Speaker 2: killed where there was some unknown assailant who shot at

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Speaker 2: this player named Willie Cooper in their yard and another player,

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Speaker 2: Brandon Meriwether, fired back.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Willie wasn't seriously injured.

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Speaker 2: And what really came out of that incident, even though

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Speaker 2: the police justified Merriweather's shooting because you know, it was

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Speaker 2: self defense or whatever, you know, whatever whatever the term is.

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Speaker 2: In Florida, it was like the mere fact that when

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Speaker 2: this happened, Meriweather just also happened to have a gun,

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Speaker 2: like like he was packing and a lot of the

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Speaker 2: athletes had guns. Brian had guns. Brian had shotgun in

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Speaker 2: AK forty seven a handgun. Wow, And yeah, and so

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Speaker 2: from the law perspective, that was okay, But the coach

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Speaker 2: had a no guns rule that was routinely violated.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's turn real quick to where he was living,

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Speaker 3: because I know that this is an important part of

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Speaker 3: this story. I don't know why in my head, I

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Speaker 3: know this is probably not the case anywhere in my head,

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Speaker 3: I just think, why don't you put them all in

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Speaker 3: one place, all of these football players in like a

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Speaker 3: big dorm or like a fraternity house.

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Speaker 2: They do when they're like especially especially in their first

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Speaker 2: few years, you know, And then that's that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the case with just college students in general, like you

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Speaker 2: you know, your first year or two year in the dorms,

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Speaker 2: and and that was that was the case with these athletes.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of the incidents that end up becoming

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Speaker 2: important to the story happened in a dorm room. But

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Speaker 2: by the time of this, by the time of his murder,

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Speaker 2: he is living with his girlfriend and his teammate, the

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Speaker 2: one I mentioned earlier, Dwayne Hendricks, at this apartment complex

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Speaker 2: in the Miami area not too terribly far from campus

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Speaker 2: called the Colony Apartments.

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Speaker 1: What was that place? Like? Oh, I mean it was

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Speaker 1: in It was in a decent neighborhood. It was fine.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of like your It was as we

385
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Speaker 2: sort of describe it, your typical sort of like Miami

386
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Speaker 2: complex for like there's a walkway and a balcony and

387
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Speaker 2: stuff on the outside of the buildings and you know,

388
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Speaker 2: parking lot and yeah, nothing nothing exceptional about it, you know,

389
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Speaker 2: but it was but it was not in what anyone

390
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Speaker 2: would have considered a dangerous neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: So if the cops are showing up, it's from a

392
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Speaker 3: noise violation from a party or something like that.

393
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Speaker 1: Most most likely, Yeah, I mean we did.

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Speaker 2: This was actually one of the very first things I

395
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 2: did when I got brought into this was look at

396
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Speaker 2: like other crimes that were reported around the complex and like, yeah,

397
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Speaker 2: I don't like auto theft and breaking and entering and

398
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Speaker 2: stuff like that. It wasn't. I didn't see anything jump

399
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Speaker 2: out at me like I might in some other Miami neighborhoods, so.

400
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Speaker 3: He's generally stayed out of trouble. He does have guns,

401
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 3: but also has cars that he likes to, you know,

402
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 3: dink around with. And he's really close to his family.

403
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 3: He's clearly a talented football player. As we're approaching, this

404
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 3: is the middle of football season, right oh yeah, yeah,

405
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: right in the middle of football season, and he's expected

406
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 3: to be in the draft the next year, which will

407
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Speaker 3: be a massive deal. Had any of his brothers made

408
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Speaker 3: it to the NFL, No.

409
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Speaker 1: They hadn't made.

410
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Speaker 2: A couple had played college. No, none of his brother's

411
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: man to the NFL. So this is a great time

412
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: for him. Let's talk about his personal life.

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask if he was a little

414
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Speaker 3: bit of a lady's man in high school, because usually

415
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 3: athletes with big personalities can date quite a lot. But

416
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 3: it sounds like he had a girlfriend in college also,

417
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Speaker 3: so tell me kind of about him with women.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a few girlfriends. I mean they sort

419
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: of pop up in different ways in this story.

420
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Speaker 1: But the one that he was dating in college, her

421
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: name was Jada Brodie, and they had like at the

422
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Speaker 1: time of his death, they had like just celebrated their

423
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Speaker 1: one year anniversary.

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Speaker 2: She was living with him and his friend Dwayne. They

425
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: had just gotten this dog together. You know, things seemed

426
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 2: to be things seemed to be going pretty good with them.

427
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Speaker 1: Well, I guess on and off right.

428
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Speaker 2: I mean, some of the people we talked to said that, yeah,

429
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: I mean they had a little.

430
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Speaker 1: Bit of a hot and cold relationship. But you know,

431
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Speaker 1: I mean it's college, so welcome to twenty two. Yeah.

432
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there were things that there were things involving

433
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: her family and family members that came up that were

434
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: distressing to her and to Brian that would sort of

435
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: factor into all of this at some point. But you know,

436
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: they were thinking of continuing their relationship. And I mean

437
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: that just sort of depends on who you ask, because

438
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: there are other people who were like, yeah, I don't

439
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 2: know how long he was going to date her after

440
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: he went to the NFL.

441
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, but that's again not uncommon.

442
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: Well, and that's such a consideration for those for those

443
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: guys and any you know, female athletes too, who you're

444
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 3: involved with in college. And then does that carry over

445
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: when all of a sudden you were given literally millions

446
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: of dollars what would be expected? And then I want

447
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: to get to the night that this happens. But what

448
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: would be expected for him to get if he signs.

449
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, he's in the middle somewhere

450
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: in the draft and he gets on with the team.

451
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: This would still be millions of.

452
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 2: Dollars no matter what, right eventually, Yeah, well yeah, at

453
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: that time, I mean there's so many, so many factors

454
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: that weighed into it. And then you know we're talking,

455
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: you know, more than a decade ago or so. But yeah,

456
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: he had been wealthy for sure, certainly could have bought

457
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: his mom that house.

458
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's talk about what happens that day slash night.

459
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: He's at practice, right and leaves practice. I have to

460
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: assume exhausted because it must be exhausting.

461
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

462
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: So it's November seventh, two thousand and six, and you know,

463
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,959
Speaker 2: he had other stuff going on that day. You know,

464
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: met some people for lunch, was going to register for

465
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: his classes for the next semester, you know, doing regular things.

466
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: Goes to practice at practice, like it's a memorable practice

467
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: because it was one of the coach's birthdays, and they

468
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: like do the big ice bath on him and everything,

469
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: and everybody's in a pretty good mood and and so,

470
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 2: you know, he's done with practice and he's ready to

471
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 2: head home, and he sees some of the younger players

472
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 2: and they're like, hey, can you give us a ride?

473
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: So he takes takes those guys home, which is in

474
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 2: the opposite direction of where he lives, and then he

475
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: turns and heads back to his apartment. He's on the

476
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 2: phone with his brother Fednahl as he pulls into the

477
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: parking lot. He's got this Infinity SUV black and you know,

478
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: they end the call, and as far as anyone knows,

479
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: that's the last contact he has with anyone who knows him,

480
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: is that call with Fednol. And from what police and

481
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: others have been able to put together, he pulls his

482
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: SUV into his designated parking spot at the Colony apartments.

483
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 2: He gets out of his car and somebody approaches him,

484
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, we think sort of ambushes him and kills

485
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 2: him in a way that investigators have described as execution style.

486
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: Shoots him in the head, you know, right above sort

487
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: of on the left side of his head, above his

488
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: ear back, kind of on the side, and that's what

489
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: kills him. Jada, Well, Jada's record of what she told

490
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: police is a little bit different in terms of exactly

491
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: what she heard, but she heard something. She came outside,

492
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: and she goes out to the sort of balcony area

493
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: where Brian's car would be, and she sees his body

494
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 2: and from the crime scene photos you can see that he's.

495
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: Kind of like in these bushes a little bit.

496
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: Initially she thinks he's playing around, but then she notices

497
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: like the position of his body and that there's blood,

498
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: you know, coming out of his head, and she calls

499
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: nine one one and not right around that same time,

500
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: which is around seven o'clock in the evening, it's dark outside.

501
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: Dwayne Hendrix pulls into the parking lot as well, comes

502
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: across this scene, same sort of thing, sees it. First

503
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 2: thinks it's you know, thinks Brian's playing a joke or whatever,

504
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: and realizes Jada comes back, she gets her.

505
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: Phone, she's screaming.

506
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: You hear her and Dwayne on the nine one one call,

507
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 2: and you know, they are telling the dispatcher he's been shot.

508
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: They didn't see anybody, he's not breathing. Then the first

509
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: responders arrive.

510
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: So what is the time from when Brian is shot

511
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 3: or when Jada hears the shots to when Dwayne pulls up.

512
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: Is it moment I mean obviously long enough for somebody

513
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 3: to take off.

514
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: It's moments.

515
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like yeah, because she's from what we

516
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: can tell on the nine on one call, like she

517
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: had just called nime in one. She's on with them

518
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: for you know, not like not even a minute or so,

519
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: and then Dwyane. You hear Dwayne and Dwyane comes up.

520
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: It all is sort of happening like right around the

521
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: same time.

522
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Okay, and what is Jada say? On the nine to

523
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: one one call.

524
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: There's a lot of screaming, yeah, they need help, that

525
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 2: he's shot. I remember Dwayne was the one who you

526
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: could hear a little bit better about, you know, giving

527
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: the address of where they are, and you know that

528
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: he's not breathing, and that he says, I don't know

529
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: what happened. Nobody knows what happens, nobody saw anything, you know,

530
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: and just that right, just a lot of repeating things over.

531
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: So it's one shot, you said, kind of behind to

532
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: see in her back of his head. Correct.

533
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: I find it curious when they say execution style, does

534
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: that mean that they don't think that Brian saw who

535
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: did this, that this was you know, right behind him,

536
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: like an ambush like you said.

537
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: Possibly and also also not a drive by, right, I mean,

538
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: it was somebody who approached him. And another thing that

539
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: was key at the crime scene was, you know, he

540
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 2: drops his cell phone, his keys, and his wallet. His

541
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: wallet has nine one hundred dollars bills in it and

542
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: they're all still there. Yeah, So that kind of for

543
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 2: the investigators ruled out the idea that it was a

544
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: robbery a robbery attempt, and.

545
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes if that's not the case, because sometimes

546
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: when it happens, the person freaks out and takes off

547
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: and it's too scared to even been down and.

548
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: Get money or look through someth they're interrupted.

549
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: So the killer in theory left on foot because nobody

550
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 3: heard a car take off, I assume.

551
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: They don't know.

552
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: They assumed that, I mean, if he had a car,

553
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: there's no indication that it was a car in the

554
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: parking line. If it was a car park somewhere nearby.

555
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: Those was one of the things that they were looking into.

556
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: They had, you know, early on, they had the suspect

557
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 2: car that was driving around and they ended up finding

558
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: that person and you know, they ruled that person out

559
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: and many years down the road when this case goes

560
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: to trial, there are detectives who theorize that it was

561
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: someone who came to the apartment complex on foot and

562
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: then left on foot, but they don't know for sure.

563
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so both call nine one one. It's two

564
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: thousand and six. We have cell phones, Do we have CCTV?

565
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: There is no surveillance footage. I think they're the one

566
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 3: of the things that this didn't even make the podcast

567
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: because it was sort of an antiller. But the apartment complex,

568
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, didn't have security cameras running, and so no,

569
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: there's no footage. I mean there's there's no footage of

570
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: it happening. There's no I mean like today where there'd

571
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 3: be like, you know, thirty ring cameras all.

572
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: Over the place. Yeah, where people see that. There is nothing.

573
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: Nothing like that, at least you know, connected at that time.

574
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: So who's in charge? Is this?

575
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: Miami Dade Police, Miami Dade Police Department. Yeah, do they

576
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: respond quickly? I mean he's got to be gone at

577
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: that point whenever they show up.

578
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they Yeah, they show up, and they and he's

579
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: pronounced dead pretty quickly. And the police get there and

580
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: they and you know, they're looking one of the things,

581
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: one of the key things is there's no bullet casing

582
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: and the no, there are no projectiles on the ground.

583
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: The only the only projectile they get is the one

584
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: that they extract from Brian Scolder in the autopsy, and

585
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: that's an important detail because that gives them some indication

586
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: of what type of weapon might have been used.

587
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: So it was one of the.

588
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: Things that they look for at the crime scene. But

589
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: to this day, there's never been a weapon found.

590
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: A handgun. I have to assume, right, he's not going

591
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: to run off with a shotgun. They assume based.

592
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: On the fact that there was no casing left and

593
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: the size and type of the projectile the bullet, that

594
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: it was a thirty eight caliber revolver.

595
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So who tells his mother?

596
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: Did the Miami Dade Police go to her place in

597
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: Little Haitian knock on the door or what happens?

598
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: Dwayne Hendrix calls her and he he says this many

599
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: times throughout the retelling of this is that it the hardest,

600
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: hardest call he's ever had to make in his life,

601
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things he's ever had to do

602
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: in his life. And he calls her and you know,

603
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 2: there's a retelling of her than calling her daughter and

604
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: telling her about this. But I think the scene that

605
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: people remember most because it was the one that was

606
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: on local media at the time, is she arrives at

607
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: the crime scene. She's, you know, wearing like a jersey

608
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: with his number on it and her shirt and she's running,

609
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: running to where he is and she's saying, you know,

610
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: give me my baby, give me my baby. You know,

611
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: it's just it's heartbreaking, heartbreaking.

612
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: That's awful. And so the police start to work this case.

613
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 3: What is this investigation? Like, where do they go first?

614
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: I mean, so you know, and based on what you

615
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: said about the twenty seventeen press conference, it did not

616
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: go well, is what I have to assume.

617
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: It went everywhere, but yeah, end of the day to

618
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: not go well.

619
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the first things that they do,

620
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: and this becomes very important later on, is they Larry Koker,

621
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: who's the head coach at the time University of Miami,

622
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: calls the players for a mandatory team meeting at the

623
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: athletic facilities at the University of Miami. And part of

624
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: that is, you know, when this happened with the shooting

625
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: of that other player, Willie Cooper earlier on in this like,

626
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: there was some thought initially that people were targeting football players, right,

627
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: And part of the team meeting was like, let's get

628
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: everybody round it up, Let's make sure everybody else is okay,

629
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: and then let's also start talking to people who might

630
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: know something. Right, So they have this team meeting and

631
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: they have police officers there to talk to these players.

632
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: So they start doing that, and then you know, then

633
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: they do I guess what you'd say, Oh, the usual interviews.

634
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: They interviewed Jada, they interview Dwayne, They start looking for

635
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: people who are around the apartment complex, like trying to

636
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: find anyone who may have seen something. Then they start

637
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: realize how entwined Brian is with so many things. And

638
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: one of the things even when we sort of did

639
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: our first big investigative story on this back in twenty twenty,

640
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: that we made clear was that Brian, I think my

641
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: colleague producer Dana Ruda puts it best, he had his

642
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: fingers in so many pies that there were any number

643
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: of people who had some beef with him, you know,

644
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: whether it was a woman out in Washington stage who

645
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: bought a car from him and lost a bunch of

646
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: money on it because it was a lemon to these guys,

647
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: these alleged gang members at a nightclub who got into

648
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: a fight with Brian and his friends and as they left,

649
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: they you know, these guys were threatening them. There was

650
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: this thing over some stolen rims and maybe there's somebody

651
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: who has pissed off at bran And for having rooms

652
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: on his car.

653
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: That were stolen. There was, as I sort of alluded

654
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: to earlier, this.

655
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: Issue with Jada's family, specifically her twin brother who had

656
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: a criminal past as well. That was like at the onset,

657
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: like all of these all of these little things just

658
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: started started coming up, and there were a number of

659
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: situations or circumstances that police also saw. We're pointing to

660
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: one person in particular.

661
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's go through what the police had to

662
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: have been thinking. You know, I guess anybody could know

663
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: what his schedule would be, that he practiced blah.

664
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: Blah and blah and then got out there.

665
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: I know he took a detour to drop off the

666
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: younger players, but either somebody could have been following him

667
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: or just sitting in the bushes waiting on him.

668
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: If they knew where he lives.

669
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: So that doesn't help, right, It doesn't help to narrow

670
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: down whether this is a player or a gang member,

671
00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: because it could have been anybody.

672
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: But that's also why they think he was targeted. I mean,

673
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: keep in mind, it was dark, but it was only

674
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: seven o'clock. Yeah, you know, I mean that was pretty

675
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: active time in the evening for anyone. Right, So whoever

676
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: did this, they think was obviously casing the place and

677
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: watching out for him to arrive.

678
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 3: They had to have gotten into his bank accounts to

679
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 3: figure out his money situation.

680
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: Did they find anything hinky there?

681
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: Thank you for asking that, because that is something we

682
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 2: pointed out in our interviews with them.

683
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: There was this big thing about where was Brian getting

684
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: his money?

685
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the Murder at the You podcast we

686
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: go into what we found out about that. But one

687
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 2: of the things that was interesting to us when we

688
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: were interviewing the police was that they really didn't pull

689
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: like his bank records.

690
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: I mean, there wasn't a lot of looking at.

691
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: There wasn't a follow of the money case on this,

692
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: which is interesting because you normally think that to be

693
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 2: the case.

694
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: So there did not seem to be any kind of

695
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: love triangle involving Brian and Jada an unknown person.

696
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, absolutely, Okay, So, and that's when we

697
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: get to the one lead that the police start gathering

698
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: the most evidence on, and a lot of it goes

699
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: back to that team meeting that I talked about, which.

700
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: Was the night of Brian's murder. All these playership with

701
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: the team meeting except for one, and that person's absence

702
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: is noted, and that is Brian's teammate, a guy by

703
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: the name of Rashawn Jones.

704
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: Tell me about Rashon and is that that big of

705
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: a deal that he doesn't show up?

706
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: It becomes a big deal.

707
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: Let me give you the backstory with Rashon and Brian

708
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: before we get into any more about that night. Rashan

709
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: had been involved with, not dating, but involved with a

710
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 2: relationship of sorts with Jada before Jada started dating Brian.

711
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: Rashon had a lot of women, I think everybody.

712
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: That is probably the one point that everyone It was

713
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: probably one point on which everyone would agree. And he

714
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: was known for having girlfriends but also screwing, known with

715
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: other women, hitting on his teammates girlfriends. I mean, this

716
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: is not an isolated thing. To like Jada, right, it's

717
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: just kind of a Shan's emo. So teammates of the

718
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: two will end up varying on what they say. The

719
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: level of dispute was between Rashaan Jones and Brian Patta.

720
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: Some of them portray that as more tense than others,

721
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 2: but suffice it to say it was a sticking point

722
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: between them. One of the other things that happened was

723
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: this dorm fight in what we think what investigators think

724
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: also was two thousand and four. They find him in

725
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 2: one of their one of the guy's rooms. This guy's

726
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: name Eric Moncore, and he's in Eric's room and the

727
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: door is locked, and they, you know, the Brian Patta

728
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: and Eric and you know, a couple other guys you know,

729
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: and finally end up, you know, entering the apartment through

730
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: a different door, and and they see Rashon heading out

731
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 2: and they confront him as to what he was doing

732
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: in there, and he's like, hey, you know, he just

733
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: just he wants to get out of the room, and

734
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 2: so he tries to leave the room.

735
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: Rashon does, and Brian gets.

736
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: In his way and and you know, kind of gets

737
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: a little physical with him, and then they get in

738
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: a fight and Brian ends up throwing him down on

739
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: the bed and headbudding him. And I mean, I think

740
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: in anyone's description of this fight like really does a

741
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: number on Rashon.

742
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: And as Rashaan is leaving, he says, you know, boy,

743
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: you better clip up and clip up, meaning you know

744
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,479
Speaker 1: slang for you better get your gun.

745
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: I have to assume Rashaan was you know, somebody who

746
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 3: had a lot of guns too. Was it to the

747
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 3: level that Brian would have guns.

748
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: Some people would say that he had a gun. Some

749
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: people would say, including Rashaan, that he didn't. Rashaan has

750
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: said he did not own a gun, did not have

751
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: a gun. Some of the teammates would say that they

752
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: were not aware of him having a gun, or they

753
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: never saw him with a gun, or they didn't think

754
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: he had a gun, and a couple of them, at

755
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: least one in particular, would say that he did see

756
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 2: Rashon with a gun, and another said he heard Rashon saying.

757
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: That he had a gun.

758
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: Had anything happened besides Jada? Had anything happened between two

759
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: thousand and four and two thousand and six. Were they

760
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 3: in the same position, they played the same position, or

761
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: anything they did not know.

762
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,479
Speaker 2: There was another like a little scuffle that they had

763
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: in the locker room, but there was no other like big.

764
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: There was no other significant fight that anyone remembers. I mean,

765
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: I think people remember them just not liking each other. Yeah,

766
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: they either did not like each other or they just

767
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: weren't friends. And no, they didn't play the same position,

768
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: so during practice and stuff like that, they wouldn't have

769
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: been around each other that much because they were not

770
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: in competition with each other for playing time or for

771
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: you know, attention for you know, scouts or anything like that. Okay,

772
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 2: they were, however, on two very different trajectories. And we've

773
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: talked about Brian and how he was headed to the

774
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: NFL and was playing great in his new position and

775
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: how you know, things are looking up for him.

776
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: Rashaan was the opposite.

777
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: Rashon, from what people have testified, you know, wasn't living

778
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: up to what they thought he was going to be

779
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: when when he was brought in. He had some academic

780
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: issues from what people said. And then also I think

781
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: the really important thing is that on the day that

782
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 2: Brian was killed, Rashon got news that he had failed

783
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 2: his second drug test and as a football player. When

784
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: you fail your second drug test, you get a two

785
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 2: game suspension, and if you have one more failed test,

786
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: you're off the team, right, and Rashon was, I mean,

787
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: he clearly had one before, but this time it was like, Okay,

788
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: this is.

789
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: A big deal.

790
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: So all of those things are happening at this day.

791
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: And then at some point in the afternoon before Brian's killing,

792
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: Rashan changes his phone number and he does one other

793
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: thing that has puzzled people, which is he called this

794
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: guy named Mike Sanders, and Mike was a baseball player

795
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: at the University of Miami.

796
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: I believe Mike's family had a lot of money, and

797
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: it was well known that his family had a lot

798
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: of money.

799
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: And that night, while the other players were at the

800
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: team meeting, Rashon calls Mike to ask him for some money,

801
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: and Mike said he didn't ask him for anything in particular.

802
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: He doesn't remember if he asked him for anything in particular.

803
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: But the thought of people who were aware of that

804
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: was like, oh, is he trying to get money to

805
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: get out of town.

806
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially because they changed his phone number and all

807
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: of that. Yeah, Okay, so this is an awful day.

808
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 3: For Rashaun because he scared he's not playing very well.

809
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 3: Is he from the same sort of background of that

810
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: Brian is?

811
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: And I don't mean Haitian.

812
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: He grew I mean yeah, I think the family grew

813
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: up of modest means. He's from Lake City, Florida, more

814
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: kind of smaller town. But yeah, different, different than Brian.

815
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: It still seems a little odd. I mean, I know

816
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: he's on the radar. Well wait, when does he become

817
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: on the radar with the police.

818
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 3: When the coach says to the police, this is one

819
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: kid who didn't show up and he should have.

820
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: Becomes he gets on the radar pretty quickly, well, okay,

821
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: pretty quickly, and then he really gets on the radar

822
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: the following summer of two thousand and seven.

823
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: And here's why.

824
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: So the day after Brian is killed, this University of

825
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: Miami writing instructor whose name is Paul Connor, decides to

826
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: get in touch with the Mammi De police apartment. Paul

827
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: Connor lived at the Colony apartments, same complexes as Brian,

828
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: and he says the night before, when he was walking

829
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: into the apartment complex parking lot, a man encountered him

830
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: at the gate and approached him and like, you know,

831
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: just in passing walked by and she wouldn't think anything.

832
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: He didn't think anything of this interaction until the next

833
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 2: day when he sees the news about, oh my gosh,

834
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: there's been a murder at my apartment complex. You know,

835
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: I didn't know that, and he thought, you know, maybe

836
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: what I have, the information I have is valuable. So

837
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 2: he goes to the Miami Dade. He goes with the

838
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: maybe the police officers. He talks to a forensic artist

839
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: who develops a sketch of the guy he thinks he saw,

840
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: and the sketch hasn't directly looked like anyone we've seen personally,

841
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: but that was.

842
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: That was sort of his first first step.

843
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: And then as some of this other stuff about Rashwan

844
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: not being at the meeting, having this history of a

845
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: beef with Brian. Seven months later, the police go back

846
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: to Paul Connor, and this time they have well photos,

847
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: six on each sheet, and they ask Paul Connor to

848
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: pick out the image of the guy he saw leaving

849
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: the h you know, leaving the apartment complex, and the

850
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: picture he happens to pick out is that of Rashawn Jones.

851
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 3: You know, and that's the wrong way to do it,

852
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 3: because then somebody has a picture in their head and

853
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 3: they're just going like, this is okay, this guy right here.

854
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 3: You know, I think traditionally now they'll do one at

855
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: a time. Yes, say, is this it so that you're

856
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: not kind of going this looks like an apple, I'm

857
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 3: gonna take this apple.

858
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: Rashaun is black, I assume, right. Yes. Is Paul Connor

859
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: white or is he black? No, Paul Connor is white.

860
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: At the time, he was a you know, sort of

861
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: I guess a little older than middle age white man.

862
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: Yes, And we know cross racial mess identification is certainly,

863
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 3: you know, something that that the police hopefully acknowledge because

864
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 3: it's important that being said. So it sounds like, now

865
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 3: we've got a little bit more against Rashwan. This is

866
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 3: a whole year or what the next summer? So what

867
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 3: is that like six months? Seven months later?

868
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: Seven months? Yeah?

869
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 3: Are the police doing anything about Rashon between now and

870
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: then besides Paul Connor showing up.

871
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: As far as we can tell, No, I mean they

872
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: they did, and I don't know exactly when they did this,

873
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: but they would end up pulling some of his phone records.

874
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: Why just some he has a cell phone, right.

875
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's not unique to college football players,

876
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: but a lot of these guys had multiple phones.

877
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

878
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: So from what we've been able to tell, we have records.

879
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: We've seen records for you know, the number that was

880
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: active at the time, but there are other records we

881
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: know there are the numbers or other circumstances we know

882
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: for which there should be records, but but there aren't.

883
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: So what are the cell phone records for Rashawn's show

884
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 3: from that time period.

885
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, he changed his number, right, So

886
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 2: that's that's the thing that's in terms of the frequency.

887
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: A couple things that we'll get brought out later is

888
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: that around the time of Brian's murder there are no

889
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: phone calls, whereas there's a flurry of them afterwards, and

890
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: I think some some before.

891
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: But that's one thing.

892
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: The second thing is that there are several calls with

893
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: you know, Rashawan and his girlfriend at the time. There

894
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: is record of that call with Mike Sanders, the baseball

895
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: player from whom he allegedly asked for money. There are

896
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: other calls that later on come up in very specific,

897
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: granular ways as this case, you know gets investigated, but

898
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: that's primarily in terms of the call frequency, Like that's

899
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: a lot of what the police are looking at. And

900
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: then also later on they'll get into the cell towers. Now,

901
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: the cell tower thing is tough. I mean, I think

902
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: people need to realize, this is two thousand and six.

903
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 3: I didn't even think they had the ability to ping

904
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: you know, back then.

905
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: They did, but it wasn't great.

906
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 2: And part of the problem is that Rashawn and Brian

907
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: actually didn't live that far from each other. So for

908
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: Rashon's phone to ping off a tower that was closer

909
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: to Brian's apartment wouldn't have necessarily meant that he was there.

910
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: They just they couldn't use the cell phone records were

911
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: not great in actually placing Rashon at the.

912
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: Scene at that time.

913
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: ESPN really digs into this because it's the fact that

914
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: this has so many tentacles and just the manner in

915
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: which Rashon is sort of starting. I mean, we hear

916
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: from a source outside of the police and outside of

917
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 2: the police records. We hear from a source that Rashon

918
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 2: has been a target of the investigation from some of

919
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: the earlier stages. Right one of our big hurdles in

920
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: this is that at the onset the police, even though

921
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 2: they are the ones who reach out to us, they're

922
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: not terribly willing to share specific details about some aspects

923
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: of the investigation that we think are important to include

924
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: in the story it important to go over and they

925
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 2: won't give us the full police report. And we think

926
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: that they should because we think that so in Florida,

927
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: if a case is being investigated, then police have the

928
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: ability to withhold the records, right. But we were arguing,

929
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: this is a cold case. You haven't done anything on

930
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: this case. There hasn't been an entry in this case

931
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 2: file since two thousand and nine, twenty ten, Like, this

932
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: is a cold case, we should be able to have access.

933
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: To these records. And they disagreed, so we sued them.

934
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 2: Oh ESPN sues the Miami Dade Police Department in March

935
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, at the height of the world falling

936
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: apart right for the pandemic. And but we say, you know,

937
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 2: we have our our hearing via zoom and one thing

938
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: that we were really aside from knowing that there had

939
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 2: to be some information in there regarding Rashan, one thing

940
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: that the police had told us for forever in multiple

941
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: I mean in the early days the police, I mean

942
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: at least they did sit down with us and interview

943
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: with us. A lot of times it felt like we

944
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: or running in circles because they weren't giving us the

945
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: detail of information we wanted.

946
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: But they did talk to us extensively, and one thing

947
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: they said over and over was when we'd ask them, well,

948
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: did you have a suspect, they would make comments like, oh,

949
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 1: everyone's a suspect, everyone's a suspect, and like, did you have.

950
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 2: One person you were looking at? Well, no, I mean

951
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: not no, I mean any one person could be a

952
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 2: sad around and around. And so when we got some

953
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 2: of these records, before we got all the unredacted records,

954
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: we wanted in one steck of the records that they

955
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: gave us where they were still redacting information they forgot,

956
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: we think, to redact a very particular record, and what

957
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: that was was when they would background someone, they would

958
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: create like a cover sheet, so you'd have like a

959
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: white sheet with a person's name and handwriting at the bottom,

960
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: and then after that you'd have all this stuff you

961
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 2: pulled on them, like their background or poured and correspondence

962
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: or whatever.

963
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: Like a hundred of these.

964
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 2: Only one of these was the word suspect written, and

965
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: it was on the cover sheet for Rashawn Jones.

966
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: There you go.

967
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 2: But they still weren't admitting this. So we go to

968
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: trial with them on our public records case, and during

969
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: testimony with one of the officers, he says that they've

970
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: had a suspect, they've had a suspect since shortly after

971
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 2: the case, that this person has been their prime suspect,

972
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: and that they anticipate making an arrest in the foreseeable future.

973
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 2: This directly contradicted everything the police department had told us

974
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: up to this point.

975
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely when they were not straight up with us. The

976
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: word lying is a tough one, and I.

977
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: Don't know to what extent keeping that information is that,

978
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: but I would say at least they were very disingenuous.

979
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,959
Speaker 1: So then what's the result of this hearing? So we

980
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: lose more than we went on this right.

981
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 2: The judge allows some of the information out there, but

982
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: primarily the judge rules against us because of that very

983
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: statement that the police said that they have a suspect

984
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: and they plan to make an arrest in the foreseeable future.

985
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: Because that's part of the statute, and the judge is like, well,

986
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: you know, as long as you can prove your working

987
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 2: on the case and that you're going to make an arrest,

988
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: then you can withhold this information.

989
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: But he writes in his ruling a day will come when.

990
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: If you haven't done any of these things, then this

991
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: will indeed be inactive case and you will have to

992
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: release the records. We lay this all out in the

993
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 2: story that we call Death at the You, which goes

994
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 2: runs in November of twenty twenty on ESPN dot com.

995
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: Within a year, in August twenty twenty one, the police

996
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: arrest for Shan Jones. We are now fifteen years after

997
00:50:54,920 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: the murder, and they arrest him and all I guess

998
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one, and throughout the next several months

999
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: we keep thinking, well, what happened?

1000
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: What new evidence did you find? Where's the smoking gun?

1001
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: And throughout all the court filings, all the depositions, all

1002
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 2: the records we can find, all the interviews that we've done,

1003
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: nothing had changed. There was no new evidence that triggered

1004
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 2: the arrests. It was just the new detective, the new

1005
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: lead detective, being able to organize things better, maybe reinterview

1006
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: some people and you know, put the pieces together better

1007
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: than they were before. So now the state is firmly

1008
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: in the camp of Rashwan did this, and so that's

1009
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: where the arrest and the charges of second degree murder

1010
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 2: happened in August twenty twenty one. So what is were

1011
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: Shaun doing between two thousand and six and you know,

1012
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one when he's arrested.

1013
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: Where was he during this fifteen years he's had He

1014
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: was living out call of Florida.

1015
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: He's had a number of kids. I think it was

1016
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: like five kids, varying ages. He ends up marrying his

1017
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: high school sweetheart Ashenda. He's working at a dollar tree.

1018
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: You know, from what we can tell, he was involved

1019
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 2: in some youth sports coaching. I mean just you know,

1020
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: no like criminal major criminal activity. No, you know, just

1021
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 2: kind of kind of laying low, you know, doing doing

1022
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 2: the thing.

1023
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: So what do they have, because they're going to trial,

1024
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: What is the evidence against him?

1025
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: It's all the same.

1026
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 2: But I think the strongest evidence they have is that

1027
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: eye witness Paul Connor and his identification of him out

1028
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: of that photo lineup. They combined that with the dorm

1029
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: room fight, the perceived jealousy over Jada, They're differing trajectory

1030
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 2: on the team where you know, Rashaan was going down

1031
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,479
Speaker 2: and Brian was going up, and you know, he just

1032
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 2: just couldn't handle that. And the description of the guys

1033
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 2: who say or Sean had a gun, and the type

1034
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: of gun they described matched the type of gun most

1035
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: likely used in the killing, and the request for money

1036
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: that night, and the change of the phone number, and

1037
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, all of these, all of these very circumstantial things.

1038
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: Did you think that was a strong case?

1039
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think we pointed out time and time again.

1040
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,959
Speaker 2: You know, they didn't have enough to pursue charges back

1041
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, two

1042
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: thousand and nine. What has changed so that they could

1043
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: do it now? And in fact, what has changed was

1044
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 2: these other theories, like as we reported, you know, they

1045
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 2: they clearly weren't tracked down the way they should have been. Yeah,

1046
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 2: and our story ran calling them out on this, you know,

1047
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 2: And so does that prompt the arrest?

1048
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1049
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: I know that I know that our efforts are reporting

1050
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 2: this prompted them to look closer at it and re

1051
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: examine it. But yeah, I don't know, other than the

1052
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: new lead detective saying that he did a fantastic job

1053
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: of putting all the pieces together.

1054
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't know how much more there is.

1055
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 3: So tell me about the trial, which ended in March

1056
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 3: sort of.

1057
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: How did the trial unfold? Oh my gosh.

1058
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: So there were days of jury selection followed by five

1059
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: days of testimony with interviewing more than twenty witnesses, and

1060
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 2: it's like a Thursday when the jury starts deliberating. At

1061
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 2: the end of the day, they're like, we still don't

1062
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: have an answer for you. There was another jury who

1063
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 2: had a conflict on Friday, so the judge's like, well, okay,

1064
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: we'll see you back here on Monday. The jury comes

1065
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: back on Monday and sends a note to the judge

1066
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 2: that they are deadlocked and no one is willing to move.

1067
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: So the judge is like, okay, I'm going to ask

1068
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: you to go back and try again. Just try see,

1069
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 2: just give it a go, you know, see if you

1070
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 2: can get to the unanimous decision. And they come back

1071
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 2: and they're like, we can't. We are hopelessly deadlocked. And

1072
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: that's the way it is. And so the judge then

1073
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: declares a mistrial and that shocks everyone. I mean it

1074
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: is like that was not on my BINGO card at all.

1075
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 2: A mistrial is not ideal for either side. I mean,

1076
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 2: the Padda family still doesn't get justice.

1077
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: Rashan doesn't get answers, you know, and then you have

1078
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: the costs and the expense and the weariness of having

1079
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: to do this trial all over again. Was it sort

1080
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: of an even split? I was able to Yeah.

1081
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: I was able to contact some of the jurors afterward,

1082
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,959
Speaker 2: and it came down to so there's sixtures. Only one

1083
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 2: of them was dead set on convicting Rashaan. Wow, And

1084
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: a large part of what that person said was, well,

1085
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,399
Speaker 2: it was a gut feeling that.

1086
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: He needed to be convicted. Yeah, I gotta tell you.

1087
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not overwhelmed with the evidence. I know

1088
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 3: it's circumstantial, but I mean there's just like, there's no

1089
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 3: one actually saying he was there right there, right there,

1090
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 3: you know, well.

1091
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: Unless you believe Paul Connor with the with the lineup.

1092
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of but the defense did a

1093
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: pretty good job of making jurors question the reliability of that,

1094
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: for sure. And the other thing that I find interesting

1095
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: about the jury is that the judge wouldn't allow the

1096
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 2: defense to bring up any of these alternate theories, and

1097
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 2: some of these alternate theories had some pretty significant legs, right, like,

1098
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: you could see how that could be the case. And

1099
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: throughout the trial, the defense kept trying to introduce these

1100
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 2: other leads that the police pursued that they never completed,

1101
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 2: that they never excluded, but the judge would not allow

1102
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: any of that.

1103
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: So even without.

1104
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 2: Hearing that, with what the information that was presented, you know,

1105
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: the fact that almost that all but one of those

1106
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: jurors couldn't be convinced by the state really spoke again

1107
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: to the.

1108
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: Police and prosecutors work on this case.

1109
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 3: So his girlfriend at the time never said that he

1110
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 3: said anything at all. That's the closest person to him, right, Rashaan.

1111
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: His girlfriend at the time, her name is Sherri Abramson,

1112
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: had said a number of things. She talks about how

1113
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: when this, when this happened, she heard about it from

1114
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: somebody else, and she was desperately trying to reach Rashan

1115
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: because she was worried that someone might now be after him.

1116
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: I mean going back to what she says was the

1117
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: prior shooting of that player you know earlier, Yeah, that

1118
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: she said, well, you know, I wanted to make sure

1119
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: he was okay. And you know, the state brought phone

1120
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 2: records to review in terms of when when the call

1121
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: happened and then when eventually Rashan came out to her place,

1122
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 2: you know, which is far farther away, so you know

1123
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 2: that would show up on a cell tower record. But yeah,

1124
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 2: she just wasn't. The jurors sort of all said that

1125
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: they just they just didn't think. They just couldn't buy

1126
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 2: into her testimony, whether it was because they thought she

1127
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: was trying to cover for him or she couldn't remember or.

1128
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: Just turned to me on the stand, you know, yeah,

1129
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: she wasn't.

1130
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: I don't I don't necessarily think her testimony really helped.

1131
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: So the DA is taking another swing at this. Yes,

1132
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: they've already indicated that they are going to retry this case.

1133
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: It is it is set for May eighteenth.

1134
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: What's the difference, What is it going to be new

1135
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 3: about this? Just a different jury, just a different jury.

1136
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 2: And I'm sure that they'll make changes in how they

1137
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 2: present their case, but they don't have much to change

1138
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: up with, right, Like there's you know, I don't think

1139
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 2: there's going to be any I mean, look, this case

1140
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 2: has taken so.

1141
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: Many crazy turns.

1142
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 2: I say this, and then I know I'm going to

1143
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: jinx myself, But I don't think there could be another,

1144
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: you know, bizarre left turn in this case before something

1145
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 2: finally happens to end it.

1146
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 3: Well, this is a great podcast, and you have to

1147
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 3: be able to hear the voices of the people you

1148
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 3: know who are involved with this story to really appreciate

1149
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: all the work you all have done.

1150
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 1: I'll say, I don't know if.

1151
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 3: Miami Day Police will ever call ESPN ever again after this,

1152
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 3: so you might be tapped out Miami.

1153
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 2: I think about that a lot. It's like, I just

1154
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 2: think you whoever sent that email is like, is really

1155
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: really regretting it now, because like, yeah, come and to

1156
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: a story on someone, to a story on this did

1157
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: not mean coming to a story on us.

1158
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1159
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 3: I hope there's a conclusion on one way or the other,

1160
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 3: which you know, it could be upsetting with the family,

1161
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 3: It could be upsetting with Rashawn.

1162
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: We all know.

1163
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 3: But ms charls were awful and I'm sure your guys

1164
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 3: are going to be there every step.

1165
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: Of the way.

1166
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I think the jury would say,

1167
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, one of the jurors I talked to was like, look,

1168
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 2: I don't know if Shan did it or not, but

1169
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: what I know is that the state didn't prove anything

1170
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt.

1171
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: Nope.

1172
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: And jurors two of them I corresponded with, said, you know,

1173
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 2: they just feel so sorry for the pad of family,

1174
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: and part of that is we feel like they were

1175
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 2: let down by the investigators by this, and you know,

1176
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: they just shouldn't have had to have suffered this long period.

1177
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 3: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the

1178
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 3: audio versions of my books The Sinners, All Bow, The

1179
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 3: Ghost Club, All That Is Wicked, and American Sherlock, and

1180
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,959
Speaker 3: Don't Forget. There are twelve seasons of my historical true

1181
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 3: crime podcast, Tenfold More Wicked right here in this podcast feed,

1182
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 3: scroll back and give them a listen if you haven't already.

1183
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer

1184
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 3: is Alexis Mrosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This

1185
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 3: episode was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer,

1186
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 3: artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hartstark, Karen

1187
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 3: Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer.

1188
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and.

1189
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 3: Facebook at tenfold more Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold more.

1190
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 3: And if you know of a historical crime that could

1191
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 3: use some attention from the crew at tenfold more Wicked,

1192
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 3: email us at info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. We'll

1193
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 3: also take your suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked

1194
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 3: Words