WEBVTT - Legendary Music Journalist Lisa Robinson 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:26.316 Pushkin. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:00:26.516 --> 0:00:36.036 I'm justin Richmondton. Pioneering rock journalist Lisa Robinson will never 0:00:36.276 --> 0:00:39.236 run out of stories. Over the past forty years, she's 0:00:39.236 --> 0:00:42.716 interviewed everyone from John Lennon to Lady Gaga, to Jay 0:00:42.796 --> 0:00:45.436 Z and Emineh. She even sat down with an eleven 0:00:45.516 --> 0:00:48.796 year old Michael Jackson years before he became the King 0:00:48.836 --> 0:00:53.276 of Pop. Lisa's career started in the nineteen seventies when 0:00:53.276 --> 0:00:56.276 she embedded on massive world tours with led Zeppelin and 0:00:56.356 --> 0:01:00.636 The Rolling Stones. In the decades since, she's partied with Bowie, 0:01:00.836 --> 0:01:04.396 dined with Beyonce, and talked Through the Night with Joni Mitchell. 0:01:04.956 --> 0:01:08.436 And today's interview, Rick Rubin reminisces with Lisa, an old 0:01:08.476 --> 0:01:11.596 friend about her storied career. She has a lot to 0:01:11.636 --> 0:01:15.076 say about everything, including how she and her husband, music 0:01:15.116 --> 0:01:19.556 producer Richard Robinson, practically lived at CBGB's in the mid seventies, 0:01:19.956 --> 0:01:22.316 and why she felt compelled to write her latest book, 0:01:22.516 --> 0:01:26.236 called Nobody Ever Asked Me About the Girls, which features 0:01:26.236 --> 0:01:29.076 excerpts from interviews she's done over the years with Bette Midler, 0:01:29.276 --> 0:01:33.956 Rihanna Adele, Janelle Mooney, Stevie Nicks, and so many more. 0:01:34.476 --> 0:01:38.516 Here's Rick Rubin and Lisa Robinson. How are you Rick? 0:01:38.596 --> 0:01:40.876 I miss you? I miss you too. How are you feeling? 0:01:41.396 --> 0:01:43.796 Do you see where I'm sitting in front of what 0:01:43.876 --> 0:01:46.596 do we sit? What is it? That is a portion 0:01:47.356 --> 0:01:51.676 of my original cassettes and my CDs? The Richard made 0:01:51.716 --> 0:01:57.076 backup copies of five thousand hours of digitized interviews. That 0:01:57.276 --> 0:02:00.116 is only a portion, that's not a virtual background, that's 0:02:00.196 --> 0:02:05.956 real in there are the John Lennon, Michael Jackson, Led Zeppelin, Adele, 0:02:06.156 --> 0:02:12.156 Rihanna Beyonce, I mean, Rommi, Madley, Croft, King, Princess, everybody 0:02:12.396 --> 0:02:17.316 from nineteen seventy two to the present day. And that 0:02:17.476 --> 0:02:21.476 is only a portion of them. And Richard also put 0:02:21.476 --> 0:02:24.676 it on a computer. We backed it up on another computer. 0:02:25.116 --> 0:02:28.036 I backed it up on three external hard drives that 0:02:28.116 --> 0:02:32.636 are in three separate secure locations. And I just want 0:02:32.636 --> 0:02:34.756 to get rid of all of it. Richard swear to god, 0:02:35.036 --> 0:02:38.596 I have four storage spaces that I have been storing 0:02:38.836 --> 0:02:42.676 all of this shit. Not my tapes, but posters and 0:02:42.796 --> 0:02:48.516 memorabilion t shirts and Annie's pictures and Bob Bruin's pictures 0:02:48.516 --> 0:02:53.876 and original photos from cream rock scene, hit Parador four 0:02:53.916 --> 0:02:57.716 storage spaces fifty thousand dollars a year for over twenty years. 0:02:57.796 --> 0:03:01.716 So that's over a million point three that I've invested 0:03:01.796 --> 0:03:04.636 into holding on to all this crap. And then I 0:03:04.796 --> 0:03:08.196 have more in my house, more in my office across 0:03:08.196 --> 0:03:12.156 the street, and every rock book that ever has been 0:03:12.196 --> 0:03:16.276 published about popular music, the blues hip hop that I'm 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:18.836 still holding on to all this, I mean, eight thousand 0:03:18.916 --> 0:03:23.196 vinyl LPs. It's ridiculous. This is my life. What's your 0:03:23.196 --> 0:03:26.116 first memory of music? Growing up? Sneaking out of my 0:03:26.156 --> 0:03:28.476 house at the age of twelve to go Stee Colonious 0:03:28.516 --> 0:03:32.076 Monk at the five Spot. Literally growing up in Manhattan, 0:03:32.476 --> 0:03:35.516 how did you know to go? Because my parents were 0:03:35.596 --> 0:03:39.796 left wing Jewish intellectuals, so we grew up listening to 0:03:39.876 --> 0:03:42.596 like What He Got three and Lead Bailly and Pete 0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:47.876 Seeger and sort of left wing music. And I started 0:03:47.916 --> 0:03:52.276 listening to jazz under the covers, and I would here 0:03:52.396 --> 0:03:55.996 Mars Davis, Dilonious Monk, John Coltrane, and it just sounded 0:03:56.036 --> 0:04:00.276 like another sexy world down there, and so I knew 0:04:00.956 --> 0:04:03.196 they were performing in New York in the Village Van 0:04:03.236 --> 0:04:05.996 Garden five Spot and I just snuck out of my 0:04:06.036 --> 0:04:09.276 house to twelve, probably looking like a fool maker up 0:04:09.676 --> 0:04:12.676 black dresses, high heels, hair on the top of my head. 0:04:12.836 --> 0:04:14.636 I don't know how I got into these places, but 0:04:14.796 --> 0:04:17.756 I did. And I remember seeing Monk at the five Spot. 0:04:17.836 --> 0:04:23.076 I'm just seeing Miles Davis and John Caltrane, all these people. 0:04:23.356 --> 0:04:26.236 And then I became a huge Rolling Stones fan. I 0:04:26.276 --> 0:04:29.316 just loved them. I didn't like the Beatles that much. 0:04:29.756 --> 0:04:32.556 I thought they were too white or I don't know, 0:04:32.676 --> 0:04:36.996 too cute, whereas the Stones to me, were sexier. And 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:40.796 I write about this. They're one of the few things 0:04:40.836 --> 0:04:43.436 that I mentioned about men in my new book, which 0:04:43.476 --> 0:04:46.916 is called Nobody Ever Asked Me about the Girls, because 0:04:47.316 --> 0:04:50.076 nobody ever asked me about the girls. You know, over 0:04:50.116 --> 0:04:53.796 the past forty years, everyone would say to me, what's 0:04:53.876 --> 0:04:58.276 John Lennon really like, what's Michael Jackson really like? What's 0:04:58.356 --> 0:05:01.076 David Bowie really like? What's m and M like, what's 0:05:01.156 --> 0:05:04.476 Jay Z like? And you know, people ask you about 0:05:04.476 --> 0:05:07.156 the people that you've worked with. In my case, it 0:05:07.196 --> 0:05:09.876 was people I interviewed, and no he ever asked me 0:05:09.876 --> 0:05:13.036 about the girls. And at some point I heard Tina 0:05:13.156 --> 0:05:19.036 Turner on Richard's radio show on wn WFM, and it 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:24.196 just drove I heard Navid Staples, Tina Turner, all this 0:05:24.396 --> 0:05:27.956 black music, irma Franklin doing Piece of My Heart, which 0:05:27.996 --> 0:05:30.436 I thought and he thought was better than Jonas Joplin, 0:05:30.716 --> 0:05:33.996 and that just changed my life because I met him 0:05:34.556 --> 0:05:38.796 three months later, we got married, and it kind of 0:05:38.836 --> 0:05:42.396 opened a door to a career that he sort of invented. 0:05:42.716 --> 0:05:48.476 And I barged through my whole first personal experience with 0:05:49.476 --> 0:05:54.316 popular music or interviewing people as a job. Richard sent 0:05:54.396 --> 0:05:57.436 me to interview Tommy James, of Tommy James and the 0:05:57.556 --> 0:06:02.156 Chantels of Crimson and Clover and all that. He was 0:06:02.316 --> 0:06:06.436 so coaked up and sweating and he had a shag 0:06:06.796 --> 0:06:10.076 short truce rug. I'll never forget. You could barely open 0:06:10.116 --> 0:06:12.676 the door to get into the apartment. And this was 0:06:12.716 --> 0:06:15.996 my first interview ever that I did. I probably still 0:06:15.996 --> 0:06:18.956 have to tape somewhere here. And I was lucky and 0:06:19.076 --> 0:06:22.076 that he was one of the very few evolved men 0:06:22.756 --> 0:06:27.556 who mentored me and encouraged my whole career. And I 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:30.356 just barged through that door. He opened it. I barged 0:06:30.436 --> 0:06:33.636 through it. What do you remember about Tommy James. Just 0:06:33.756 --> 0:06:35.996 what I told you, he was coked up. He made 0:06:36.076 --> 0:06:41.156 very little sense. I mean, actually he was allegedly coked up. 0:06:41.316 --> 0:06:44.756 I don't want to get sued. He just seemed weird. 0:06:44.796 --> 0:06:48.516 I don't think i'd ever seen anybody on cocaine. I 0:06:48.556 --> 0:06:52.436 mean since then, of course I am, but I wasn't 0:06:52.596 --> 0:06:55.836 used to be babbling in the sweating and that was 0:06:55.916 --> 0:06:58.636 probably one of the main reasons that I never did 0:06:58.636 --> 0:07:01.236 it once in my whole life, because I've been around 0:07:01.276 --> 0:07:06.436 so many bands who indulged in cocaine, and I talk 0:07:06.596 --> 0:07:09.316 enough as it is, so I didn't need to have 0:07:09.316 --> 0:07:13.356 any further encouragement. I just thought it was always very sleazy, 0:07:13.396 --> 0:07:17.276 and probably it dates to that initial occasion. Did you 0:07:17.356 --> 0:07:20.676 listen to his music before you interviewed him? No, I 0:07:20.676 --> 0:07:24.596 mean I knew about Crimson and Clover, But this is 0:07:24.636 --> 0:07:27.556 the other thing, you know. I mean, you know, you 0:07:27.596 --> 0:07:31.836 can create a vibe with someone without ever losting to 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:35.556 their music. I mean, my whole thing about interviewing people 0:07:35.676 --> 0:07:38.556 is I do like to know everything about them, and 0:07:38.636 --> 0:07:42.236 I have researched everybody, and I listened to every single 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:45.356 thing they've ever done. Now I read every interview they've 0:07:45.356 --> 0:07:48.036 ever done, and then I throw it all away and 0:07:48.076 --> 0:07:50.396 I just like have it in my head and I 0:07:50.476 --> 0:07:53.436 go in and it takes a completely different term. The 0:07:53.556 --> 0:07:58.116 conversation just goes elsewhere, because if you're just talking to 0:07:58.276 --> 0:08:02.876 people like people, and I've always been interested in people's stories, 0:08:03.356 --> 0:08:06.156 So I managed to get them to say things to me. 0:08:06.276 --> 0:08:09.556 Like everybody who I've been talking to for the book 0:08:09.876 --> 0:08:12.036 keep saying, how did you get these women to tell 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:14.596 you all these things that they never told anyone else. 0:08:15.196 --> 0:08:18.036 The reason I got these women to open up to me, 0:08:18.196 --> 0:08:21.396 I think was number one. I walked into the room 0:08:22.156 --> 0:08:25.356 with a certain history, just like you have. You know, 0:08:25.396 --> 0:08:27.636 they know your work, they know what you've done. When 0:08:27.676 --> 0:08:30.636 I met Gaga for the first time, she carried on like, 0:08:30.916 --> 0:08:34.556 you knew Freddie Mercury, you know David Bowie, you knew 0:08:34.636 --> 0:08:37.396 John Lennon, And so that was an icebreaker right there. 0:08:37.996 --> 0:08:41.156 And also we had a bottle of wine waiting, and 0:08:41.196 --> 0:08:45.236 she worked in the room in full Gaga apparition, black 0:08:45.396 --> 0:08:49.076 lace katsuit, veil covering her face, and she said, are 0:08:49.076 --> 0:08:51.396 we going to drink? And I said, yeah, but you've 0:08:51.516 --> 0:08:55.236 got to lift the veil. I mean literally and figuratively, 0:08:55.396 --> 0:08:58.756 so that was just an unbelievable connection. We were true 0:08:58.796 --> 0:09:02.196 New York City girls born in the same hospital many 0:09:02.276 --> 0:09:07.396 years apart. And I just always like to know a 0:09:07.396 --> 0:09:11.196 lot about the person, but not ask him about that stuff. 0:09:11.516 --> 0:09:14.396 I just see where the conversation goes. What was the 0:09:14.476 --> 0:09:18.796 first writing job you had, like an assignment? Was Tommy 0:09:18.876 --> 0:09:21.516 James the first one? No, I didn't write that up. 0:09:22.036 --> 0:09:23.676 I don't know what we did with that. I think 0:09:23.756 --> 0:09:26.956 Richard used whatever coherent quotes he could find. Maybe he 0:09:27.076 --> 0:09:29.396 used for his syndicated radio show. And he had a 0:09:29.476 --> 0:09:32.676 little column in a tiny English paper called Disk and 0:09:32.796 --> 0:09:36.036 Music Echo, and he didn't want to write that column anymore, 0:09:36.556 --> 0:09:38.396 and he said you write it. And I said, I 0:09:38.396 --> 0:09:40.476 don't know how to write, and he said, yes, you do. 0:09:40.556 --> 0:09:42.156 You know how to talk, you know how to write. 0:09:42.676 --> 0:09:45.876 So I started to write this little column about stuff 0:09:46.476 --> 0:09:49.636 that was happening in New York. Actually, prior to that, 0:09:50.796 --> 0:09:55.236 I had written an anonymous gossip sheet which would be 0:09:55.476 --> 0:09:58.396 equivalent to a blog today, and I called it The 0:09:58.436 --> 0:10:02.396 Pop Wire Service, and I typed it out on an 0:10:02.436 --> 0:10:07.196 actual typewriter. I mimiographed it on colored paper. I didn't 0:10:07.236 --> 0:10:09.196 put a ballline on it. And I sent it to 0:10:09.276 --> 0:10:11.716 everyone in the music business. Richard knew all of him 0:10:11.756 --> 0:10:13.756 because he had been working in this business for a 0:10:13.756 --> 0:10:16.636 few years, and so people started to buzz about it, 0:10:16.716 --> 0:10:18.996 like who is writing this thing? And how do they 0:10:18.996 --> 0:10:20.716 know what's going on? And who's going out with you 0:10:21.156 --> 0:10:25.476 and what's happening In retrospect, it was literally like maybe 0:10:25.596 --> 0:10:28.076 not as sleazy, but it was a little tmzsh kind 0:10:28.116 --> 0:10:31.516 of access Hollywood for the day. But anyway, he gave 0:10:31.516 --> 0:10:33.836 me this column and disco music Deco. I took it 0:10:33.916 --> 0:10:38.716 over and led Zeppelin, who was considered a heavy metal 0:10:38.996 --> 0:10:43.876 cheesy heavy metal band in America, saw this column and 0:10:43.916 --> 0:10:47.676 they were getting terrible, terrible press in America. John Mendelssohn 0:10:47.676 --> 0:10:49.796 and Rolling Stone. I remember it to this day, and 0:10:49.916 --> 0:10:53.316 so does Robert Plant. I'd assure you. He wrote about 0:10:53.316 --> 0:10:55.676 the lemon song that Robert Plants sings, not it's only 0:10:55.676 --> 0:11:00.276 a dog can hear, And boy, I'm blessed my memory. 0:11:00.676 --> 0:11:04.316 And so led Zeppelin saw this kind of puff piecy, 0:11:04.556 --> 0:11:10.956 kind of pleasant, non judgmental, non reviewing, non critical column 0:11:11.156 --> 0:11:14.076 in disk in Music Echo, and they want a good 0:11:14.076 --> 0:11:16.916 press in England so their parents would see it because 0:11:16.916 --> 0:11:20.116 they were getting terrible press in America, so I was 0:11:20.156 --> 0:11:22.956 asked to go see them. I went to see them 0:11:22.956 --> 0:11:26.476 in Jacksonville, Florida at a stadium. I mean, they were 0:11:26.516 --> 0:11:31.676 selling at stadiums, but they were critically getting panned. And 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:35.796 the minute I saw them perform, I just thought they 0:11:35.836 --> 0:11:39.236 were majistic. I just thought they were amazing. I thought 0:11:39.236 --> 0:11:44.076 they combined hard rock, blues, you know, Eastern music, everything. 0:11:44.516 --> 0:11:47.316 And so then they invited me to go interview them 0:11:47.356 --> 0:11:50.756 in New Orleans, and I'd never been there, and so 0:11:50.956 --> 0:11:54.196 I went and I interviewed them on the roof of 0:11:54.236 --> 0:11:57.876 the Royal Orleans Hotel, and I talked to Jimmy Page 0:11:57.916 --> 0:12:02.556 about Money Waters and Hallam Wolfen, Elmore James and Willie Dixon, 0:12:02.596 --> 0:12:05.556 who they ripped off. And I talked to Robert Plant 0:12:05.596 --> 0:12:09.796 about incredible spring band in Kaleidoscope and Fairpool Convention in 0:12:09.916 --> 0:12:13.916 Joni Mitchell, and they were they couldn't believe that a 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:19.196 young woman knew about any of these people. And as 0:12:19.196 --> 0:12:22.196 a result, I went on five doors with them and 0:12:22.756 --> 0:12:26.156 I thought they were amazing and fantastic. And now here 0:12:26.196 --> 0:12:29.556 we are, however, many years later, at forty eight whatever, 0:12:29.996 --> 0:12:32.596 and they're considered one of the greatest bands of all time, 0:12:32.636 --> 0:12:35.556 but I promised you that when I did my first 0:12:35.676 --> 0:12:39.756 column on them, they were not. And then I started 0:12:39.796 --> 0:12:42.636 writing about them for Cream Magazine, and I wrote about 0:12:42.716 --> 0:12:46.316 Bowie for Cream Magazine, and I became the American editor 0:12:46.356 --> 0:12:49.396 of the New Music Express in England. I moved up 0:12:49.436 --> 0:12:52.436 from Disk and Music Echo to that, and then Jagger 0:12:52.836 --> 0:12:55.236 saw that I was writing all this stuff about Zeppelin 0:12:55.316 --> 0:12:59.636 that was still favorable, and it was around nineteen seventy four, 0:13:00.356 --> 0:13:05.476 and he thought he was a dinosaur then because CBGBs 0:13:05.596 --> 0:13:08.396 was happening and the sex pistols in the Clash and 0:13:08.556 --> 0:13:12.036 buzz cut, that was all happening in England. And I 0:13:12.076 --> 0:13:16.596 had one foot in this private plane all access passed 0:13:16.596 --> 0:13:19.996 backstage Zeppelin in the Stones world, and the other foot 0:13:20.756 --> 0:13:23.956 every night I was in New York and CBGVS standing 0:13:24.076 --> 0:13:27.916 in two inches of beer or urine, oh god knows what. 0:13:28.556 --> 0:13:33.236 And Richard and I just made Roxcene Magazine, which was 0:13:33.316 --> 0:13:36.836 the house organ along with Pump Magazine of that world. 0:13:37.356 --> 0:13:40.316 And that was when I first saw the Ramones and 0:13:40.436 --> 0:13:44.276 Patty Smiths and television and talking ads in Bondi and 0:13:44.316 --> 0:13:47.956 that just blew me away. And so Jagger thought, well, 0:13:48.036 --> 0:13:51.156 she knows what's happening in this world, and he invited 0:13:51.196 --> 0:13:54.756 me on the seventy five Stones tour, and I had 0:13:54.796 --> 0:13:57.836 an amazing gig because they paid me to be a 0:13:57.876 --> 0:14:00.516 consultant to tell him who to talk to in the press. 0:14:00.756 --> 0:14:02.796 But I also could write about them. There was no 0:14:02.876 --> 0:14:05.916 such thing that a conflict of interest, you know, So 0:14:06.516 --> 0:14:10.756 I did both. And being on that kind of tour, 0:14:11.596 --> 0:14:14.756 being in those kind of hotels with the room service 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:20.716 and everything you'd want available to you, and then going 0:14:20.716 --> 0:14:24.796 with Patti Smith in a van for seventeen hours or 0:14:24.836 --> 0:14:28.276 whatever it took to get somewhere, I understood this world 0:14:28.356 --> 0:14:31.636 for women, and I understood what it's like for women 0:14:31.716 --> 0:14:35.276 that's different than men, because women did not pick up 0:14:35.316 --> 0:14:38.316 boys on the road the way guys did. Women did 0:14:38.316 --> 0:14:41.596 not do drugs the same way. I mean, yes they 0:14:41.636 --> 0:14:44.316 did drugs, but they didn't have a whole chapter about 0:14:44.396 --> 0:14:47.436 drugs and sex, and another one on sex in my book. 0:14:47.436 --> 0:14:50.636 But it's like Debbie Harry told me she could not 0:14:50.796 --> 0:14:54.276 ask her tour manager to go into the audience and 0:14:54.316 --> 0:14:57.236 pick out the ten cutest boys, like David Lee Roth 0:14:57.356 --> 0:15:00.796 would have his tour manager go in and pick out 0:15:00.836 --> 0:15:04.116 the ten cutest girls to meet him, and I use 0:15:04.236 --> 0:15:10.196 that word advisably meet quotes around that. But having gone 0:15:10.196 --> 0:15:13.036 on the Zeppelin and the Stones tour, I then got 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:16.516 a syndicate, a column, I got a syndicated radio show, 0:15:17.076 --> 0:15:20.796 I went on cable television, and I don't know, it's 0:15:20.836 --> 0:15:26.396 just that my reputation for being trustworthy because if something 0:15:26.436 --> 0:15:29.236 was off the record, it was off the record, and 0:15:29.636 --> 0:15:33.036 I was not a critic, and people like that, and 0:15:33.076 --> 0:15:36.156 so then of course I was accused of writing puff pieces. 0:15:36.716 --> 0:15:40.196 But basically I didn't really care because I was a fan. 0:15:40.796 --> 0:15:45.316 I was a music fan, and that continues to this day. 0:15:45.676 --> 0:15:48.396 Talk about CBGB's a little bit. So you saw the 0:15:48.516 --> 0:15:54.236 Ramunds Patti Smith television talking heads. Did it feel like 0:15:55.156 --> 0:15:59.876 the music was of a collection or was it more 0:15:59.956 --> 0:16:02.396 like these are just a bunch of different interesting artists 0:16:02.436 --> 0:16:05.236 playing in the same place. Yeah, it was a bunch 0:16:05.236 --> 0:16:08.156 of different interesting artists playing in the same place, and 0:16:08.356 --> 0:16:11.036 unfortunately they got labeled as all being part of a 0:16:11.076 --> 0:16:15.556 New York punk scene and they all hated that. Frankly, 0:16:15.956 --> 0:16:19.356 Ramones didn't mind it so much because they had more 0:16:19.396 --> 0:16:22.636 of that image or being punks. I thought television was 0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:25.876 the best band of all of them, and as a result, 0:16:25.956 --> 0:16:29.756 of course, they were the least commercially successful. Just like 0:16:29.836 --> 0:16:33.676 you know, Tomderlane thought he was John Caldrane or Pink Floor. 0:16:34.076 --> 0:16:38.356 I mean, he didn't think he was a punk. Blondie 0:16:38.396 --> 0:16:42.156 started out as a pop art project. They thought it 0:16:42.156 --> 0:16:45.476 would be funny to sort of emulate a pop band 0:16:45.796 --> 0:16:49.956 with a cute girls singer, and that was Chris Stein 0:16:50.076 --> 0:16:54.116 and Debbie Harry's whole vision for that band. And then 0:16:54.156 --> 0:16:56.876 they had some hits and then they turned into like 0:16:56.916 --> 0:17:00.316 a big pop band, but they did some very cool 0:17:00.356 --> 0:17:03.756 things because Debbie brought fab five Freddie into it and 0:17:03.756 --> 0:17:06.876 then Raptures. She brought rap sort of to the mainstream 0:17:06.916 --> 0:17:09.516 a little bit at that point in the seven and these, 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:14.036 even though it really wasn't happening in a larger way, 0:17:14.956 --> 0:17:17.676 I mean cool Hirk started in I don't know what year, 0:17:17.756 --> 0:17:20.476 it was maybe a little later seventy eight, but in 0:17:20.636 --> 0:17:25.876 CBGB's Patty was the first woman that like looked like 0:17:25.956 --> 0:17:29.076 Keith Richards or Bob Dylan, two guys she idolized. But 0:17:29.156 --> 0:17:32.796 she would punch the air and kind of combine poetry 0:17:32.956 --> 0:17:37.596 with music, and it was just incredibly liberating and exciting 0:17:37.636 --> 0:17:40.556 to see a woman do this. And of course the 0:17:40.556 --> 0:17:43.436 New York Dolls and Mercer Street was even before that. 0:17:43.956 --> 0:17:48.956 And I thought David Johansson at that time was probably 0:17:48.996 --> 0:17:51.876 the best rock and roll performer I ever saw, and 0:17:51.956 --> 0:17:54.636 I still hope that. I think he's much better than Jagger. 0:17:54.876 --> 0:17:59.676 He was incredibly witty, he was really really funny and smart, 0:18:00.156 --> 0:18:06.156 and Johnny Thunders was a great sloppy blues rock guitarist, 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:10.156 and so CBS was just kind of our home. We 0:18:10.196 --> 0:18:13.356 went there every single night. Honestly, I think I spent 0:18:13.396 --> 0:18:16.796 the entire winter of nineteen seventy four there. Every single 0:18:16.916 --> 0:18:21.956 night we'd stayed till the end of every performance. New 0:18:22.036 --> 0:18:26.156 York was so different than I mean, it was a dump, 0:18:26.716 --> 0:18:30.836 but as I've written, it was our dump. And you know, 0:18:30.916 --> 0:18:34.156 they served hamburgers on paper plates with potato chips. I 0:18:34.236 --> 0:18:37.716 now cannot believe I ate anything in there. The bathroom 0:18:37.756 --> 0:18:42.396 downstairs was grotesque. I mean, Helly's dog was at the 0:18:42.476 --> 0:18:46.076 front desk all the time, slobbery. It was just kind 0:18:46.116 --> 0:18:51.796 of a crazy place, never to be replicated, never. And 0:18:51.876 --> 0:18:54.956 the thing is, every city has some place like this. 0:18:55.116 --> 0:18:59.156 I'm sure, I'm sure, Seattle did London, you know, the 0:18:59.276 --> 0:19:03.356 cavern in Liverpool whatever. In retrospect, it's taken on this 0:19:03.596 --> 0:19:07.516 mythic quality, but when you're living it, it doesn't feel 0:19:07.556 --> 0:19:10.636 like that. It's just someplace you go and you enjoy 0:19:10.716 --> 0:19:13.876 the music and your friends with all the people. And 0:19:13.916 --> 0:19:16.596 I would dread Bob growing around by the nape of 0:19:16.596 --> 0:19:19.716 the neck to take pictures, and then we put them 0:19:19.716 --> 0:19:23.836 in Rock Scene, and then some people would start showing up, 0:19:23.836 --> 0:19:27.996 like Paul Simon slumming, or Clive Davis looking to sign someone, 0:19:28.396 --> 0:19:31.996 or seymour Stein looking to sign someone, and I would 0:19:32.036 --> 0:19:34.836 always be posing with anybody, and then when the mud 0:19:34.876 --> 0:19:39.196 Club happened, Bowie would show up there. So it was 0:19:39.236 --> 0:19:43.036 always the rock scene, frankly was a shameless self promotional 0:19:43.476 --> 0:19:46.436 vehicle for me, and so they had always Richard would 0:19:46.476 --> 0:19:50.236 like these very snarky captions, like a rare smiling photo 0:19:50.276 --> 0:19:53.276 of Lisa with David Bowie, because it'd be like thirty 0:19:53.476 --> 0:19:57.036 rare smiling photos of me in every issue. We were 0:19:57.076 --> 0:20:00.196 going to CBGB's every night. When I first heard the 0:20:00.276 --> 0:20:03.636 Ramones Rick, I couldn't believe their songs were all under 0:20:03.716 --> 0:20:07.796 three minutes. I thought everybody else proll them some crazy 0:20:07.836 --> 0:20:10.876 pump I thought sounded like the Beach Boys on speed. 0:20:11.476 --> 0:20:13.996 We'll be back with more from Lisa Robinson In just 0:20:14.036 --> 0:20:20.956 a moment, We're back with Rick Rubin and Lisa Robinson, 0:20:21.356 --> 0:20:23.076 who tells the story of a funny run in with 0:20:23.076 --> 0:20:27.076 Eminem and his manager Paul Rosenberg backstage at S ANDL. 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:30.916 Of all the bands you ever saw, the first time 0:20:30.956 --> 0:20:34.076 you saw the Ramons having never heard them before, was 0:20:34.116 --> 0:20:38.996 that the most stunning first impression of any band? Now 0:20:39.076 --> 0:20:41.836 the New York Dolls, I think was Actually, I mean, 0:20:42.316 --> 0:20:45.116 you also have to understand anything I would tell you, 0:20:45.356 --> 0:20:48.356 Like everybody always asked me, Okay, who are the five 0:20:48.596 --> 0:20:52.436 best female performers you ever saw? And I would start 0:20:52.476 --> 0:20:56.516 with Bette Midler. Then I'd go to Adele maybe, or 0:20:56.636 --> 0:21:01.596 Tina Turner or Steven Anything would be an incomplete list, 0:21:01.876 --> 0:21:04.796 and anything could change on a day to day basis, 0:21:05.196 --> 0:21:08.716 because I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of women and probably 0:21:09.236 --> 0:21:11.836 zens of men, and I can't say that there was 0:21:11.916 --> 0:21:17.716 one seminal moment, because every time something it turned me 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:21.556 on or got me excited, that time was the best 0:21:21.596 --> 0:21:24.396 time for that thing. You know, It's a series of 0:21:24.436 --> 0:21:27.636 steps like it took me a long time to get 0:21:27.676 --> 0:21:31.076 into hip hop, and Jimmy, I having kept pushing and 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:34.116 pushing Eminem, You've got to do a story in Vanity 0:21:34.156 --> 0:21:36.836 Fair on Eminem, and I kept saying, no, I don't know. 0:21:36.916 --> 0:21:40.156 Slim as Tady seems a little jokey to me. I 0:21:40.196 --> 0:21:43.516 don't know. I just I like that to drain Tupac better. 0:21:43.636 --> 0:21:48.276 And I just California. And then finally I saw Eminem 0:21:48.316 --> 0:21:51.316 perform and it was like he took my breath away. 0:21:51.476 --> 0:21:53.116 And then, of course it took me two years to 0:21:53.116 --> 0:21:56.716 get to interview him, and then I did an unbelievable 0:21:56.836 --> 0:22:03.036 interview with him, three and a half hours, crazy, lucid, brilliant. Anyway, 0:22:03.076 --> 0:22:06.636 when I saw him again that stage of SNL and 0:22:06.796 --> 0:22:11.036 my book was almost coming out, there goes Gravity, and 0:22:11.716 --> 0:22:15.196 Paul said Marshall, Lisa wrote a book and there's a 0:22:15.236 --> 0:22:18.036 whole chapter about you. And he looked at me and 0:22:18.036 --> 0:22:21.036 he went, who else are there chapters on? And I said, 0:22:21.316 --> 0:22:26.476 Rolling Stones, let's Steppelin, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, David And 0:22:26.716 --> 0:22:32.036 he goes, oh, that's great company. And Paul said, Lisa, 0:22:32.076 --> 0:22:35.236 tell Marshall the title of the book and I said, 0:22:35.476 --> 0:22:37.996 there goes Gravity, and for one minute it was like 0:22:38.076 --> 0:22:40.836 he wasn't sure that that was his line, and then 0:22:40.876 --> 0:22:43.996 there was recognition that it was from Lose Yourself and 0:22:44.076 --> 0:22:46.796 he went, oh, thank you. When I went, no, thank you, 0:22:47.356 --> 0:22:49.556 I mean you saved my ass with that title. I 0:22:49.596 --> 0:22:52.516 couldn't come up with one, and that was perfect. And 0:22:52.556 --> 0:22:54.956 then I said, you don't remember talking to me in 0:22:54.996 --> 0:22:58.436 two thousand and six, do you? You were stoned then, right, 0:22:58.876 --> 0:23:03.116 and he said probably. And I said I was driven 0:23:03.156 --> 0:23:05.996 to Detroit because I'd rather be in a car for 0:23:06.036 --> 0:23:09.236 eleven hours than on a plane for eleven minutes. And 0:23:09.356 --> 0:23:12.236 I went to his studio in Detroit and I told him, 0:23:12.236 --> 0:23:13.876 I said, and we did a three and a half 0:23:13.956 --> 0:23:17.076 hour interview. You don't remember it. I said, you were 0:23:17.196 --> 0:23:20.036 mad because they put cheese on your hamburger and you 0:23:20.116 --> 0:23:22.956 didn't want sprite, you wanted mountain dew and blah blah 0:23:22.956 --> 0:23:25.196 blah with the food order and I remembered all this 0:23:25.236 --> 0:23:27.756 stuff about it, and he went, wow, you have a 0:23:27.756 --> 0:23:31.596 good memory. I don't. And you know that was another 0:23:32.436 --> 0:23:36.676 AHA kind of moment listening to him, same with jay Z. 0:23:37.476 --> 0:23:41.276 Absolutely blown away by jay Z. And then when I 0:23:41.316 --> 0:23:44.316 did him for the cover of Vanity Fair. I mean, 0:23:44.396 --> 0:23:48.636 Moolly spent days together and every single time I saw 0:23:48.716 --> 0:23:51.876 him perform, I just couldn't take my eyes off of him. 0:23:52.036 --> 0:23:54.916 And then like I went on one tour with him 0:23:54.916 --> 0:23:59.356 where Justin Timberlake opened one show and Jay opened another 0:23:59.836 --> 0:24:04.116 and they alternated. And I can always tell when something 0:24:04.156 --> 0:24:07.036 really is getting to me because I never go backstage 0:24:07.316 --> 0:24:10.116 to refill the glass of wine, so I waited it 0:24:10.156 --> 0:24:13.356 was our bathroom break, and I would do that during 0:24:13.396 --> 0:24:17.276 Justin Timberlake, never Jay. So you know, there are just 0:24:17.356 --> 0:24:21.276 people that leave me cold, mostly pop stars, and then 0:24:21.276 --> 0:24:23.756 there are people that just to this day, when I 0:24:23.756 --> 0:24:27.876 see Stevie Nixon Lance Light, I cried. Jeremy Mitchell I 0:24:27.956 --> 0:24:31.756 was always terrified of because I heard she was nuts 0:24:32.156 --> 0:24:36.716 and I heard she was difficult and hated journalists. And 0:24:36.756 --> 0:24:39.756 when we did a cover of Vanity Fair, Annie used 0:24:39.756 --> 0:24:43.196 to do them in panels, like one panel at a time, 0:24:43.636 --> 0:24:46.036 and one year, I think it was two thousand and one, 0:24:46.636 --> 0:24:48.796 I was determined to get everyone in the room at 0:24:48.796 --> 0:24:52.516