1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:26,316 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 2 00:00:26,516 --> 00:00:36,036 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmondton. Pioneering rock journalist Lisa Robinson will never 3 00:00:36,276 --> 00:00:39,236 Speaker 1: run out of stories. Over the past forty years, she's 4 00:00:39,236 --> 00:00:42,716 Speaker 1: interviewed everyone from John Lennon to Lady Gaga, to Jay 5 00:00:42,796 --> 00:00:45,436 Speaker 1: Z and Emineh. She even sat down with an eleven 6 00:00:45,516 --> 00:00:48,796 Speaker 1: year old Michael Jackson years before he became the King 7 00:00:48,836 --> 00:00:53,276 Speaker 1: of Pop. Lisa's career started in the nineteen seventies when 8 00:00:53,276 --> 00:00:56,276 Speaker 1: she embedded on massive world tours with led Zeppelin and 9 00:00:56,356 --> 00:01:00,636 Speaker 1: The Rolling Stones. In the decades since, she's partied with Bowie, 10 00:01:00,836 --> 00:01:04,396 Speaker 1: dined with Beyonce, and talked Through the Night with Joni Mitchell. 11 00:01:04,956 --> 00:01:08,436 Speaker 1: And today's interview, Rick Rubin reminisces with Lisa, an old 12 00:01:08,476 --> 00:01:11,596 Speaker 1: friend about her storied career. She has a lot to 13 00:01:11,636 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: say about everything, including how she and her husband, music 14 00:01:15,116 --> 00:01:19,556 Speaker 1: producer Richard Robinson, practically lived at CBGB's in the mid seventies, 15 00:01:19,956 --> 00:01:22,316 Speaker 1: and why she felt compelled to write her latest book, 16 00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:26,236 Speaker 1: called Nobody Ever Asked Me About the Girls, which features 17 00:01:26,236 --> 00:01:29,076 Speaker 1: excerpts from interviews she's done over the years with Bette Midler, 18 00:01:29,276 --> 00:01:33,956 Speaker 1: Rihanna Adele, Janelle Mooney, Stevie Nicks, and so many more. 19 00:01:34,476 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin and Lisa Robinson. How are you Rick? 20 00:01:38,596 --> 00:01:40,876 Speaker 1: I miss you? I miss you too. How are you feeling? 21 00:01:41,396 --> 00:01:43,796 Speaker 1: Do you see where I'm sitting in front of what 22 00:01:43,876 --> 00:01:46,596 Speaker 1: do we sit? What is it? That is a portion 23 00:01:47,356 --> 00:01:51,676 Speaker 1: of my original cassettes and my CDs? The Richard made 24 00:01:51,716 --> 00:01:57,076 Speaker 1: backup copies of five thousand hours of digitized interviews. That 25 00:01:57,276 --> 00:02:00,116 Speaker 1: is only a portion, that's not a virtual background, that's 26 00:02:00,196 --> 00:02:05,956 Speaker 1: real in there are the John Lennon, Michael Jackson, Led Zeppelin, Adele, 27 00:02:06,156 --> 00:02:12,156 Speaker 1: Rihanna Beyonce, I mean, Rommi, Madley, Croft, King, Princess, everybody 28 00:02:12,396 --> 00:02:17,316 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy two to the present day. And that 29 00:02:17,476 --> 00:02:21,476 Speaker 1: is only a portion of them. And Richard also put 30 00:02:21,476 --> 00:02:24,676 Speaker 1: it on a computer. We backed it up on another computer. 31 00:02:25,116 --> 00:02:28,036 Speaker 1: I backed it up on three external hard drives that 32 00:02:28,116 --> 00:02:32,636 Speaker 1: are in three separate secure locations. And I just want 33 00:02:32,636 --> 00:02:34,756 Speaker 1: to get rid of all of it. Richard swear to god, 34 00:02:35,036 --> 00:02:38,596 Speaker 1: I have four storage spaces that I have been storing 35 00:02:38,836 --> 00:02:42,676 Speaker 1: all of this shit. Not my tapes, but posters and 36 00:02:42,796 --> 00:02:48,516 Speaker 1: memorabilion t shirts and Annie's pictures and Bob Bruin's pictures 37 00:02:48,516 --> 00:02:53,876 Speaker 1: and original photos from cream rock scene, hit Parador four 38 00:02:53,916 --> 00:02:57,716 Speaker 1: storage spaces fifty thousand dollars a year for over twenty years. 39 00:02:57,796 --> 00:03:01,716 Speaker 1: So that's over a million point three that I've invested 40 00:03:01,796 --> 00:03:04,636 Speaker 1: into holding on to all this crap. And then I 41 00:03:04,796 --> 00:03:08,196 Speaker 1: have more in my house, more in my office across 42 00:03:08,196 --> 00:03:12,156 Speaker 1: the street, and every rock book that ever has been 43 00:03:12,196 --> 00:03:16,276 Speaker 1: published about popular music, the blues hip hop that I'm 44 00:03:16,316 --> 00:03:18,836 Speaker 1: still holding on to all this, I mean, eight thousand 45 00:03:18,916 --> 00:03:23,196 Speaker 1: vinyl LPs. It's ridiculous. This is my life. What's your 46 00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:26,116 Speaker 1: first memory of music? Growing up? Sneaking out of my 47 00:03:26,156 --> 00:03:28,476 Speaker 1: house at the age of twelve to go Stee Colonious 48 00:03:28,516 --> 00:03:32,076 Speaker 1: Monk at the five Spot. Literally growing up in Manhattan, 49 00:03:32,476 --> 00:03:35,516 Speaker 1: how did you know to go? Because my parents were 50 00:03:35,596 --> 00:03:39,796 Speaker 1: left wing Jewish intellectuals, so we grew up listening to 51 00:03:39,876 --> 00:03:42,596 Speaker 1: like What He Got three and Lead Bailly and Pete 52 00:03:42,636 --> 00:03:47,876 Speaker 1: Seeger and sort of left wing music. And I started 53 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:52,276 Speaker 1: listening to jazz under the covers, and I would here 54 00:03:52,396 --> 00:03:55,996 Speaker 1: Mars Davis, Dilonious Monk, John Coltrane, and it just sounded 55 00:03:56,036 --> 00:04:00,276 Speaker 1: like another sexy world down there, and so I knew 56 00:04:00,956 --> 00:04:03,196 Speaker 1: they were performing in New York in the Village Van 57 00:04:03,236 --> 00:04:05,996 Speaker 1: Garden five Spot and I just snuck out of my 58 00:04:06,036 --> 00:04:09,276 Speaker 1: house to twelve, probably looking like a fool maker up 59 00:04:09,676 --> 00:04:12,676 Speaker 1: black dresses, high heels, hair on the top of my head. 60 00:04:12,836 --> 00:04:14,636 Speaker 1: I don't know how I got into these places, but 61 00:04:14,796 --> 00:04:17,756 Speaker 1: I did. And I remember seeing Monk at the five Spot. 62 00:04:17,836 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 1: I'm just seeing Miles Davis and John Caltrane, all these people. 63 00:04:23,356 --> 00:04:26,236 Speaker 1: And then I became a huge Rolling Stones fan. I 64 00:04:26,276 --> 00:04:29,316 Speaker 1: just loved them. I didn't like the Beatles that much. 65 00:04:29,756 --> 00:04:32,556 Speaker 1: I thought they were too white or I don't know, 66 00:04:32,676 --> 00:04:36,996 Speaker 1: too cute, whereas the Stones to me, were sexier. And 67 00:04:37,836 --> 00:04:40,796 Speaker 1: I write about this. They're one of the few things 68 00:04:40,836 --> 00:04:43,436 Speaker 1: that I mentioned about men in my new book, which 69 00:04:43,476 --> 00:04:46,916 Speaker 1: is called Nobody Ever Asked Me about the Girls, because 70 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:50,076 Speaker 1: nobody ever asked me about the girls. You know, over 71 00:04:50,116 --> 00:04:53,796 Speaker 1: the past forty years, everyone would say to me, what's 72 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:58,276 Speaker 1: John Lennon really like, what's Michael Jackson really like? What's 73 00:04:58,356 --> 00:05:01,076 Speaker 1: David Bowie really like? What's m and M like, what's 74 00:05:01,156 --> 00:05:04,476 Speaker 1: Jay Z like? And you know, people ask you about 75 00:05:04,476 --> 00:05:07,156 Speaker 1: the people that you've worked with. In my case, it 76 00:05:07,196 --> 00:05:09,876 Speaker 1: was people I interviewed, and no he ever asked me 77 00:05:09,876 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 1: about the girls. And at some point I heard Tina 78 00:05:13,156 --> 00:05:19,036 Speaker 1: Turner on Richard's radio show on wn WFM, and it 79 00:05:19,236 --> 00:05:24,196 Speaker 1: just drove I heard Navid Staples, Tina Turner, all this 80 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,956 Speaker 1: black music, irma Franklin doing Piece of My Heart, which 81 00:05:27,996 --> 00:05:30,436 Speaker 1: I thought and he thought was better than Jonas Joplin, 82 00:05:30,716 --> 00:05:33,996 Speaker 1: and that just changed my life because I met him 83 00:05:34,556 --> 00:05:38,796 Speaker 1: three months later, we got married, and it kind of 84 00:05:38,836 --> 00:05:42,396 Speaker 1: opened a door to a career that he sort of invented. 85 00:05:42,716 --> 00:05:48,476 Speaker 1: And I barged through my whole first personal experience with 86 00:05:49,476 --> 00:05:54,316 Speaker 1: popular music or interviewing people as a job. Richard sent 87 00:05:54,396 --> 00:05:57,436 Speaker 1: me to interview Tommy James, of Tommy James and the 88 00:05:57,556 --> 00:06:02,156 Speaker 1: Chantels of Crimson and Clover and all that. He was 89 00:06:02,316 --> 00:06:06,436 Speaker 1: so coaked up and sweating and he had a shag 90 00:06:06,796 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 1: short truce rug. I'll never forget. You could barely open 91 00:06:10,116 --> 00:06:12,676 Speaker 1: the door to get into the apartment. And this was 92 00:06:12,716 --> 00:06:15,996 Speaker 1: my first interview ever that I did. I probably still 93 00:06:15,996 --> 00:06:18,956 Speaker 1: have to tape somewhere here. And I was lucky and 94 00:06:19,076 --> 00:06:22,076 Speaker 1: that he was one of the very few evolved men 95 00:06:22,756 --> 00:06:27,556 Speaker 1: who mentored me and encouraged my whole career. And I 96 00:06:27,636 --> 00:06:30,356 Speaker 1: just barged through that door. He opened it. I barged 97 00:06:30,436 --> 00:06:33,636 Speaker 1: through it. What do you remember about Tommy James. Just 98 00:06:33,756 --> 00:06:35,996 Speaker 1: what I told you, he was coked up. He made 99 00:06:36,076 --> 00:06:41,156 Speaker 1: very little sense. I mean, actually he was allegedly coked up. 100 00:06:41,316 --> 00:06:44,756 Speaker 1: I don't want to get sued. He just seemed weird. 101 00:06:44,796 --> 00:06:48,516 Speaker 1: I don't think i'd ever seen anybody on cocaine. I 102 00:06:48,556 --> 00:06:52,436 Speaker 1: mean since then, of course I am, but I wasn't 103 00:06:52,596 --> 00:06:55,836 Speaker 1: used to be babbling in the sweating and that was 104 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:58,636 Speaker 1: probably one of the main reasons that I never did 105 00:06:58,636 --> 00:07:01,236 Speaker 1: it once in my whole life, because I've been around 106 00:07:01,276 --> 00:07:06,436 Speaker 1: so many bands who indulged in cocaine, and I talk 107 00:07:06,596 --> 00:07:09,316 Speaker 1: enough as it is, so I didn't need to have 108 00:07:09,316 --> 00:07:13,356 Speaker 1: any further encouragement. I just thought it was always very sleazy, 109 00:07:13,396 --> 00:07:17,276 Speaker 1: and probably it dates to that initial occasion. Did you 110 00:07:17,356 --> 00:07:20,676 Speaker 1: listen to his music before you interviewed him? No, I 111 00:07:20,676 --> 00:07:24,596 Speaker 1: mean I knew about Crimson and Clover, But this is 112 00:07:24,636 --> 00:07:27,556 Speaker 1: the other thing, you know. I mean, you know, you 113 00:07:27,596 --> 00:07:31,836 Speaker 1: can create a vibe with someone without ever losting to 114 00:07:31,956 --> 00:07:35,556 Speaker 1: their music. I mean, my whole thing about interviewing people 115 00:07:35,676 --> 00:07:38,556 Speaker 1: is I do like to know everything about them, and 116 00:07:38,636 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 1: I have researched everybody, and I listened to every single 117 00:07:42,276 --> 00:07:45,356 Speaker 1: thing they've ever done. Now I read every interview they've 118 00:07:45,356 --> 00:07:48,036 Speaker 1: ever done, and then I throw it all away and 119 00:07:48,076 --> 00:07:50,396 Speaker 1: I just like have it in my head and I 120 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:53,436 Speaker 1: go in and it takes a completely different term. The 121 00:07:53,556 --> 00:07:58,116 Speaker 1: conversation just goes elsewhere, because if you're just talking to 122 00:07:58,276 --> 00:08:02,876 Speaker 1: people like people, and I've always been interested in people's stories, 123 00:08:03,356 --> 00:08:06,156 Speaker 1: So I managed to get them to say things to me. 124 00:08:06,276 --> 00:08:09,556 Speaker 1: Like everybody who I've been talking to for the book 125 00:08:09,876 --> 00:08:12,036 Speaker 1: keep saying, how did you get these women to tell 126 00:08:12,076 --> 00:08:14,596 Speaker 1: you all these things that they never told anyone else. 127 00:08:15,196 --> 00:08:18,036 Speaker 1: The reason I got these women to open up to me, 128 00:08:18,196 --> 00:08:21,396 Speaker 1: I think was number one. I walked into the room 129 00:08:22,156 --> 00:08:25,356 Speaker 1: with a certain history, just like you have. You know, 130 00:08:25,396 --> 00:08:27,636 Speaker 1: they know your work, they know what you've done. When 131 00:08:27,676 --> 00:08:30,636 Speaker 1: I met Gaga for the first time, she carried on like, 132 00:08:30,916 --> 00:08:34,556 Speaker 1: you knew Freddie Mercury, you know David Bowie, you knew 133 00:08:34,636 --> 00:08:37,396 Speaker 1: John Lennon, And so that was an icebreaker right there. 134 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:41,156 Speaker 1: And also we had a bottle of wine waiting, and 135 00:08:41,196 --> 00:08:45,236 Speaker 1: she worked in the room in full Gaga apparition, black 136 00:08:45,396 --> 00:08:49,076 Speaker 1: lace katsuit, veil covering her face, and she said, are 137 00:08:49,076 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 1: we going to drink? And I said, yeah, but you've 138 00:08:51,516 --> 00:08:55,236 Speaker 1: got to lift the veil. I mean literally and figuratively, 139 00:08:55,396 --> 00:08:58,756 Speaker 1: so that was just an unbelievable connection. We were true 140 00:08:58,796 --> 00:09:02,196 Speaker 1: New York City girls born in the same hospital many 141 00:09:02,276 --> 00:09:07,396 Speaker 1: years apart. And I just always like to know a 142 00:09:07,396 --> 00:09:11,196 Speaker 1: lot about the person, but not ask him about that stuff. 143 00:09:11,516 --> 00:09:14,396 Speaker 1: I just see where the conversation goes. What was the 144 00:09:14,476 --> 00:09:18,796 Speaker 1: first writing job you had, like an assignment? Was Tommy 145 00:09:18,876 --> 00:09:21,516 Speaker 1: James the first one? No, I didn't write that up. 146 00:09:22,036 --> 00:09:23,676 Speaker 1: I don't know what we did with that. I think 147 00:09:23,756 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: Richard used whatever coherent quotes he could find. Maybe he 148 00:09:27,076 --> 00:09:29,396 Speaker 1: used for his syndicated radio show. And he had a 149 00:09:29,476 --> 00:09:32,676 Speaker 1: little column in a tiny English paper called Disk and 150 00:09:32,796 --> 00:09:36,036 Speaker 1: Music Echo, and he didn't want to write that column anymore, 151 00:09:36,556 --> 00:09:38,396 Speaker 1: and he said you write it. And I said, I 152 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:40,476 Speaker 1: don't know how to write, and he said, yes, you do. 153 00:09:40,556 --> 00:09:42,156 Speaker 1: You know how to talk, you know how to write. 154 00:09:42,676 --> 00:09:45,876 Speaker 1: So I started to write this little column about stuff 155 00:09:46,476 --> 00:09:49,636 Speaker 1: that was happening in New York. Actually, prior to that, 156 00:09:50,796 --> 00:09:55,236 Speaker 1: I had written an anonymous gossip sheet which would be 157 00:09:55,476 --> 00:09:58,396 Speaker 1: equivalent to a blog today, and I called it The 158 00:09:58,436 --> 00:10:02,396 Speaker 1: Pop Wire Service, and I typed it out on an 159 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:07,196 Speaker 1: actual typewriter. I mimiographed it on colored paper. I didn't 160 00:10:07,236 --> 00:10:09,196 Speaker 1: put a ballline on it. And I sent it to 161 00:10:09,276 --> 00:10:11,716 Speaker 1: everyone in the music business. Richard knew all of him 162 00:10:11,756 --> 00:10:13,756 Speaker 1: because he had been working in this business for a 163 00:10:13,756 --> 00:10:16,636 Speaker 1: few years, and so people started to buzz about it, 164 00:10:16,716 --> 00:10:18,996 Speaker 1: like who is writing this thing? And how do they 165 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:20,716 Speaker 1: know what's going on? And who's going out with you 166 00:10:21,156 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 1: and what's happening In retrospect, it was literally like maybe 167 00:10:25,596 --> 00:10:28,076 Speaker 1: not as sleazy, but it was a little tmzsh kind 168 00:10:28,116 --> 00:10:31,516 Speaker 1: of access Hollywood for the day. But anyway, he gave 169 00:10:31,516 --> 00:10:33,836 Speaker 1: me this column and disco music Deco. I took it 170 00:10:33,916 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: over and led Zeppelin, who was considered a heavy metal 171 00:10:38,996 --> 00:10:43,876 Speaker 1: cheesy heavy metal band in America, saw this column and 172 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:47,676 Speaker 1: they were getting terrible, terrible press in America. John Mendelssohn 173 00:10:47,676 --> 00:10:49,796 Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone. I remember it to this day, and 174 00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:53,316 Speaker 1: so does Robert Plant. I'd assure you. He wrote about 175 00:10:53,316 --> 00:10:55,676 Speaker 1: the lemon song that Robert Plants sings, not it's only 176 00:10:55,676 --> 00:11:00,276 Speaker 1: a dog can hear, And boy, I'm blessed my memory. 177 00:11:00,676 --> 00:11:04,316 Speaker 1: And so led Zeppelin saw this kind of puff piecy, 178 00:11:04,556 --> 00:11:10,956 Speaker 1: kind of pleasant, non judgmental, non reviewing, non critical column 179 00:11:11,156 --> 00:11:14,076 Speaker 1: in disk in Music Echo, and they want a good 180 00:11:14,076 --> 00:11:16,916 Speaker 1: press in England so their parents would see it because 181 00:11:16,916 --> 00:11:20,116 Speaker 1: they were getting terrible press in America, so I was 182 00:11:20,156 --> 00:11:22,956 Speaker 1: asked to go see them. I went to see them 183 00:11:22,956 --> 00:11:26,476 Speaker 1: in Jacksonville, Florida at a stadium. I mean, they were 184 00:11:26,516 --> 00:11:31,676 Speaker 1: selling at stadiums, but they were critically getting panned. And 185 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:35,796 Speaker 1: the minute I saw them perform, I just thought they 186 00:11:35,836 --> 00:11:39,236 Speaker 1: were majistic. I just thought they were amazing. I thought 187 00:11:39,236 --> 00:11:44,076 Speaker 1: they combined hard rock, blues, you know, Eastern music, everything. 188 00:11:44,516 --> 00:11:47,316 Speaker 1: And so then they invited me to go interview them 189 00:11:47,356 --> 00:11:50,756 Speaker 1: in New Orleans, and I'd never been there, and so 190 00:11:50,956 --> 00:11:54,196 Speaker 1: I went and I interviewed them on the roof of 191 00:11:54,236 --> 00:11:57,876 Speaker 1: the Royal Orleans Hotel, and I talked to Jimmy Page 192 00:11:57,916 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: about Money Waters and Hallam Wolfen, Elmore James and Willie Dixon, 193 00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:05,556 Speaker 1: who they ripped off. And I talked to Robert Plant 194 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:09,796 Speaker 1: about incredible spring band in Kaleidoscope and Fairpool Convention in 195 00:12:09,916 --> 00:12:13,916 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, and they were they couldn't believe that a 196 00:12:14,076 --> 00:12:19,196 Speaker 1: young woman knew about any of these people. And as 197 00:12:19,196 --> 00:12:22,196 Speaker 1: a result, I went on five doors with them and 198 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:26,156 Speaker 1: I thought they were amazing and fantastic. And now here 199 00:12:26,196 --> 00:12:29,556 Speaker 1: we are, however, many years later, at forty eight whatever, 200 00:12:29,996 --> 00:12:32,596 Speaker 1: and they're considered one of the greatest bands of all time, 201 00:12:32,636 --> 00:12:35,556 Speaker 1: but I promised you that when I did my first 202 00:12:35,676 --> 00:12:39,756 Speaker 1: column on them, they were not. And then I started 203 00:12:39,796 --> 00:12:42,636 Speaker 1: writing about them for Cream Magazine, and I wrote about 204 00:12:42,716 --> 00:12:46,316 Speaker 1: Bowie for Cream Magazine, and I became the American editor 205 00:12:46,356 --> 00:12:49,396 Speaker 1: of the New Music Express in England. I moved up 206 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:52,436 Speaker 1: from Disk and Music Echo to that, and then Jagger 207 00:12:52,836 --> 00:12:55,236 Speaker 1: saw that I was writing all this stuff about Zeppelin 208 00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:59,636 Speaker 1: that was still favorable, and it was around nineteen seventy four, 209 00:13:00,356 --> 00:13:05,476 Speaker 1: and he thought he was a dinosaur then because CBGBs 210 00:13:05,596 --> 00:13:08,396 Speaker 1: was happening and the sex pistols in the Clash and 211 00:13:08,556 --> 00:13:12,036 Speaker 1: buzz cut, that was all happening in England. And I 212 00:13:12,076 --> 00:13:16,596 Speaker 1: had one foot in this private plane all access passed 213 00:13:16,596 --> 00:13:19,996 Speaker 1: backstage Zeppelin in the Stones world, and the other foot 214 00:13:20,756 --> 00:13:23,956 Speaker 1: every night I was in New York and CBGVS standing 215 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:27,916 Speaker 1: in two inches of beer or urine, oh god knows what. 216 00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:33,236 Speaker 1: And Richard and I just made Roxcene Magazine, which was 217 00:13:33,316 --> 00:13:36,836 Speaker 1: the house organ along with Pump Magazine of that world. 218 00:13:37,356 --> 00:13:40,316 Speaker 1: And that was when I first saw the Ramones and 219 00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:44,276 Speaker 1: Patty Smiths and television and talking ads in Bondi and 220 00:13:44,316 --> 00:13:47,956 Speaker 1: that just blew me away. And so Jagger thought, well, 221 00:13:48,036 --> 00:13:51,156 Speaker 1: she knows what's happening in this world, and he invited 222 00:13:51,196 --> 00:13:54,756 Speaker 1: me on the seventy five Stones tour, and I had 223 00:13:54,796 --> 00:13:57,836 Speaker 1: an amazing gig because they paid me to be a 224 00:13:57,876 --> 00:14:00,516 Speaker 1: consultant to tell him who to talk to in the press. 225 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:02,796 Speaker 1: But I also could write about them. There was no 226 00:14:02,876 --> 00:14:05,916 Speaker 1: such thing that a conflict of interest, you know, So 227 00:14:06,516 --> 00:14:10,756 Speaker 1: I did both. And being on that kind of tour, 228 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:14,756 Speaker 1: being in those kind of hotels with the room service 229 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:20,716 Speaker 1: and everything you'd want available to you, and then going 230 00:14:20,716 --> 00:14:24,796 Speaker 1: with Patti Smith in a van for seventeen hours or 231 00:14:24,836 --> 00:14:28,276 Speaker 1: whatever it took to get somewhere, I understood this world 232 00:14:28,356 --> 00:14:31,636 Speaker 1: for women, and I understood what it's like for women 233 00:14:31,716 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: that's different than men, because women did not pick up 234 00:14:35,316 --> 00:14:38,316 Speaker 1: boys on the road the way guys did. Women did 235 00:14:38,316 --> 00:14:41,596 Speaker 1: not do drugs the same way. I mean, yes they 236 00:14:41,636 --> 00:14:44,316 Speaker 1: did drugs, but they didn't have a whole chapter about 237 00:14:44,396 --> 00:14:47,436 Speaker 1: drugs and sex, and another one on sex in my book. 238 00:14:47,436 --> 00:14:50,636 Speaker 1: But it's like Debbie Harry told me she could not 239 00:14:50,796 --> 00:14:54,276 Speaker 1: ask her tour manager to go into the audience and 240 00:14:54,316 --> 00:14:57,236 Speaker 1: pick out the ten cutest boys, like David Lee Roth 241 00:14:57,356 --> 00:15:00,796 Speaker 1: would have his tour manager go in and pick out 242 00:15:00,836 --> 00:15:04,116 Speaker 1: the ten cutest girls to meet him, and I use 243 00:15:04,236 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: that word advisably meet quotes around that. But having gone 244 00:15:10,196 --> 00:15:13,036 Speaker 1: on the Zeppelin and the Stones tour, I then got 245 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:16,516 Speaker 1: a syndicate, a column, I got a syndicated radio show, 246 00:15:17,076 --> 00:15:20,796 Speaker 1: I went on cable television, and I don't know, it's 247 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:26,396 Speaker 1: just that my reputation for being trustworthy because if something 248 00:15:26,436 --> 00:15:29,236 Speaker 1: was off the record, it was off the record, and 249 00:15:29,636 --> 00:15:33,036 Speaker 1: I was not a critic, and people like that, and 250 00:15:33,076 --> 00:15:36,156 Speaker 1: so then of course I was accused of writing puff pieces. 251 00:15:36,716 --> 00:15:40,196 Speaker 1: But basically I didn't really care because I was a fan. 252 00:15:40,796 --> 00:15:45,316 Speaker 1: I was a music fan, and that continues to this day. 253 00:15:45,676 --> 00:15:48,396 Speaker 1: Talk about CBGB's a little bit. So you saw the 254 00:15:48,516 --> 00:15:54,236 Speaker 1: Ramunds Patti Smith television talking heads. Did it feel like 255 00:15:55,156 --> 00:15:59,876 Speaker 1: the music was of a collection or was it more 256 00:15:59,956 --> 00:16:02,396 Speaker 1: like these are just a bunch of different interesting artists 257 00:16:02,436 --> 00:16:05,236 Speaker 1: playing in the same place. Yeah, it was a bunch 258 00:16:05,236 --> 00:16:08,156 Speaker 1: of different interesting artists playing in the same place, and 259 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:11,036 Speaker 1: unfortunately they got labeled as all being part of a 260 00:16:11,076 --> 00:16:15,556 Speaker 1: New York punk scene and they all hated that. Frankly, 261 00:16:15,956 --> 00:16:19,356 Speaker 1: Ramones didn't mind it so much because they had more 262 00:16:19,396 --> 00:16:22,636 Speaker 1: of that image or being punks. I thought television was 263 00:16:22,676 --> 00:16:25,876 Speaker 1: the best band of all of them, and as a result, 264 00:16:25,956 --> 00:16:29,756 Speaker 1: of course, they were the least commercially successful. Just like 265 00:16:29,836 --> 00:16:33,676 Speaker 1: you know, Tomderlane thought he was John Caldrane or Pink Floor. 266 00:16:34,076 --> 00:16:38,356 Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't think he was a punk. Blondie 267 00:16:38,396 --> 00:16:42,156 Speaker 1: started out as a pop art project. They thought it 268 00:16:42,156 --> 00:16:45,476 Speaker 1: would be funny to sort of emulate a pop band 269 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:49,956 Speaker 1: with a cute girls singer, and that was Chris Stein 270 00:16:50,076 --> 00:16:54,116 Speaker 1: and Debbie Harry's whole vision for that band. And then 271 00:16:54,156 --> 00:16:56,876 Speaker 1: they had some hits and then they turned into like 272 00:16:56,916 --> 00:17:00,316 Speaker 1: a big pop band, but they did some very cool 273 00:17:00,356 --> 00:17:03,756 Speaker 1: things because Debbie brought fab five Freddie into it and 274 00:17:03,756 --> 00:17:06,876 Speaker 1: then Raptures. She brought rap sort of to the mainstream 275 00:17:06,916 --> 00:17:09,516 Speaker 1: a little bit at that point in the seven and these, 276 00:17:09,676 --> 00:17:14,036 Speaker 1: even though it really wasn't happening in a larger way, 277 00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:17,676 Speaker 1: I mean cool Hirk started in I don't know what year, 278 00:17:17,756 --> 00:17:20,476 Speaker 1: it was maybe a little later seventy eight, but in 279 00:17:20,636 --> 00:17:25,876 Speaker 1: CBGB's Patty was the first woman that like looked like 280 00:17:25,956 --> 00:17:29,076 Speaker 1: Keith Richards or Bob Dylan, two guys she idolized. But 281 00:17:29,156 --> 00:17:32,796 Speaker 1: she would punch the air and kind of combine poetry 282 00:17:32,956 --> 00:17:37,596 Speaker 1: with music, and it was just incredibly liberating and exciting 283 00:17:37,636 --> 00:17:40,556 Speaker 1: to see a woman do this. And of course the 284 00:17:40,556 --> 00:17:43,436 Speaker 1: New York Dolls and Mercer Street was even before that. 285 00:17:43,956 --> 00:17:48,956 Speaker 1: And I thought David Johansson at that time was probably 286 00:17:48,996 --> 00:17:51,876 Speaker 1: the best rock and roll performer I ever saw, and 287 00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 1: I still hope that. I think he's much better than Jagger. 288 00:17:54,876 --> 00:17:59,676 Speaker 1: He was incredibly witty, he was really really funny and smart, 289 00:18:00,156 --> 00:18:06,156 Speaker 1: and Johnny Thunders was a great sloppy blues rock guitarist, 290 00:18:06,676 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 1: and so CBS was just kind of our home. We 291 00:18:10,196 --> 00:18:13,356 Speaker 1: went there every single night. Honestly, I think I spent 292 00:18:13,396 --> 00:18:16,796 Speaker 1: the entire winter of nineteen seventy four there. Every single 293 00:18:16,916 --> 00:18:21,956 Speaker 1: night we'd stayed till the end of every performance. New 294 00:18:22,036 --> 00:18:26,156 Speaker 1: York was so different than I mean, it was a dump, 295 00:18:26,716 --> 00:18:30,836 Speaker 1: but as I've written, it was our dump. And you know, 296 00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:34,156 Speaker 1: they served hamburgers on paper plates with potato chips. I 297 00:18:34,236 --> 00:18:37,716 Speaker 1: now cannot believe I ate anything in there. The bathroom 298 00:18:37,756 --> 00:18:42,396 Speaker 1: downstairs was grotesque. I mean, Helly's dog was at the 299 00:18:42,476 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: front desk all the time, slobbery. It was just kind 300 00:18:46,116 --> 00:18:51,796 Speaker 1: of a crazy place, never to be replicated, never. And 301 00:18:51,876 --> 00:18:54,956 Speaker 1: the thing is, every city has some place like this. 302 00:18:55,116 --> 00:18:59,156 Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure, Seattle did London, you know, the 303 00:18:59,276 --> 00:19:03,356 Speaker 1: cavern in Liverpool whatever. In retrospect, it's taken on this 304 00:19:03,596 --> 00:19:07,516 Speaker 1: mythic quality, but when you're living it, it doesn't feel 305 00:19:07,556 --> 00:19:10,636 Speaker 1: like that. It's just someplace you go and you enjoy 306 00:19:10,716 --> 00:19:13,876 Speaker 1: the music and your friends with all the people. And 307 00:19:13,916 --> 00:19:16,596 Speaker 1: I would dread Bob growing around by the nape of 308 00:19:16,596 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 1: the neck to take pictures, and then we put them 309 00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:23,836 Speaker 1: in Rock Scene, and then some people would start showing up, 310 00:19:23,836 --> 00:19:27,996 Speaker 1: like Paul Simon slumming, or Clive Davis looking to sign someone, 311 00:19:28,396 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 1: or seymour Stein looking to sign someone, and I would 312 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:34,836 Speaker 1: always be posing with anybody, and then when the mud 313 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:39,196 Speaker 1: Club happened, Bowie would show up there. So it was 314 00:19:39,236 --> 00:19:43,036 Speaker 1: always the rock scene, frankly was a shameless self promotional 315 00:19:43,476 --> 00:19:46,436 Speaker 1: vehicle for me, and so they had always Richard would 316 00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:50,236 Speaker 1: like these very snarky captions, like a rare smiling photo 317 00:19:50,276 --> 00:19:53,276 Speaker 1: of Lisa with David Bowie, because it'd be like thirty 318 00:19:53,476 --> 00:19:57,036 Speaker 1: rare smiling photos of me in every issue. We were 319 00:19:57,076 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 1: going to CBGB's every night. When I first heard the 320 00:20:00,276 --> 00:20:03,636 Speaker 1: Ramones Rick, I couldn't believe their songs were all under 321 00:20:03,716 --> 00:20:07,796 Speaker 1: three minutes. I thought everybody else proll them some crazy 322 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,876 Speaker 1: pump I thought sounded like the Beach Boys on speed. 323 00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:13,996 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Lisa Robinson In just 324 00:20:14,036 --> 00:20:20,956 Speaker 1: a moment, We're back with Rick Rubin and Lisa Robinson, 325 00:20:21,356 --> 00:20:23,076 Speaker 1: who tells the story of a funny run in with 326 00:20:23,076 --> 00:20:27,076 Speaker 1: Eminem and his manager Paul Rosenberg backstage at S ANDL. 327 00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:30,916 Speaker 1: Of all the bands you ever saw, the first time 328 00:20:30,956 --> 00:20:34,076 Speaker 1: you saw the Ramons having never heard them before, was 329 00:20:34,116 --> 00:20:38,996 Speaker 1: that the most stunning first impression of any band? Now 330 00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:41,836 Speaker 1: the New York Dolls, I think was Actually, I mean, 331 00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:45,116 Speaker 1: you also have to understand anything I would tell you, 332 00:20:45,356 --> 00:20:48,356 Speaker 1: Like everybody always asked me, Okay, who are the five 333 00:20:48,596 --> 00:20:52,436 Speaker 1: best female performers you ever saw? And I would start 334 00:20:52,476 --> 00:20:56,516 Speaker 1: with Bette Midler. Then I'd go to Adele maybe, or 335 00:20:56,636 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: Tina Turner or Steven Anything would be an incomplete list, 336 00:21:01,876 --> 00:21:04,796 Speaker 1: and anything could change on a day to day basis, 337 00:21:05,196 --> 00:21:08,716 Speaker 1: because I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of women and probably 338 00:21:09,236 --> 00:21:11,836 Speaker 1: zens of men, and I can't say that there was 339 00:21:11,916 --> 00:21:17,716 Speaker 1: one seminal moment, because every time something it turned me 340 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:21,556 Speaker 1: on or got me excited, that time was the best 341 00:21:21,596 --> 00:21:24,396 Speaker 1: time for that thing. You know, It's a series of 342 00:21:24,436 --> 00:21:27,636 Speaker 1: steps like it took me a long time to get 343 00:21:27,676 --> 00:21:31,076 Speaker 1: into hip hop, and Jimmy, I having kept pushing and 344 00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:34,116 Speaker 1: pushing Eminem, You've got to do a story in Vanity 345 00:21:34,156 --> 00:21:36,836 Speaker 1: Fair on Eminem, and I kept saying, no, I don't know. 346 00:21:36,916 --> 00:21:40,156 Speaker 1: Slim as Tady seems a little jokey to me. I 347 00:21:40,196 --> 00:21:43,516 Speaker 1: don't know. I just I like that to drain Tupac better. 348 00:21:43,636 --> 00:21:48,276 Speaker 1: And I just California. And then finally I saw Eminem 349 00:21:48,316 --> 00:21:51,316 Speaker 1: perform and it was like he took my breath away. 350 00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:53,116 Speaker 1: And then, of course it took me two years to 351 00:21:53,116 --> 00:21:56,716 Speaker 1: get to interview him, and then I did an unbelievable 352 00:21:56,836 --> 00:22:03,036 Speaker 1: interview with him, three and a half hours, crazy, lucid, brilliant. Anyway, 353 00:22:03,076 --> 00:22:06,636 Speaker 1: when I saw him again that stage of SNL and 354 00:22:06,796 --> 00:22:11,036 Speaker 1: my book was almost coming out, there goes Gravity, and 355 00:22:11,716 --> 00:22:15,196 Speaker 1: Paul said Marshall, Lisa wrote a book and there's a 356 00:22:15,236 --> 00:22:18,036 Speaker 1: whole chapter about you. And he looked at me and 357 00:22:18,036 --> 00:22:21,036 Speaker 1: he went, who else are there chapters on? And I said, 358 00:22:21,316 --> 00:22:26,476 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, let's Steppelin, John Lennon, Michael Jackson, David And 359 00:22:26,716 --> 00:22:32,036 Speaker 1: he goes, oh, that's great company. And Paul said, Lisa, 360 00:22:32,076 --> 00:22:35,236 Speaker 1: tell Marshall the title of the book and I said, 361 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:37,996 Speaker 1: there goes Gravity, and for one minute it was like 362 00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:40,836 Speaker 1: he wasn't sure that that was his line, and then 363 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 1: there was recognition that it was from Lose Yourself and 364 00:22:44,076 --> 00:22:46,796 Speaker 1: he went, oh, thank you. When I went, no, thank you, 365 00:22:47,356 --> 00:22:49,556 Speaker 1: I mean you saved my ass with that title. I 366 00:22:49,596 --> 00:22:52,516 Speaker 1: couldn't come up with one, and that was perfect. And 367 00:22:52,556 --> 00:22:54,956 Speaker 1: then I said, you don't remember talking to me in 368 00:22:54,996 --> 00:22:58,436 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, do you? You were stoned then, right, 369 00:22:58,876 --> 00:23:03,116 Speaker 1: and he said probably. And I said I was driven 370 00:23:03,156 --> 00:23:05,996 Speaker 1: to Detroit because I'd rather be in a car for 371 00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:09,236 Speaker 1: eleven hours than on a plane for eleven minutes. And 372 00:23:09,356 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 1: I went to his studio in Detroit and I told him, 373 00:23:12,236 --> 00:23:13,876 Speaker 1: I said, and we did a three and a half 374 00:23:13,956 --> 00:23:17,076 Speaker 1: hour interview. You don't remember it. I said, you were 375 00:23:17,196 --> 00:23:20,036 Speaker 1: mad because they put cheese on your hamburger and you 376 00:23:20,116 --> 00:23:22,956 Speaker 1: didn't want sprite, you wanted mountain dew and blah blah 377 00:23:22,956 --> 00:23:25,196 Speaker 1: blah with the food order and I remembered all this 378 00:23:25,236 --> 00:23:27,756 Speaker 1: stuff about it, and he went, wow, you have a 379 00:23:27,756 --> 00:23:31,596 Speaker 1: good memory. I don't. And you know that was another 380 00:23:32,436 --> 00:23:36,676 Speaker 1: AHA kind of moment listening to him, same with jay Z. 381 00:23:37,476 --> 00:23:41,276 Speaker 1: Absolutely blown away by jay Z. And then when I 382 00:23:41,316 --> 00:23:44,316 Speaker 1: did him for the cover of Vanity Fair. I mean, 383 00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:48,636 Speaker 1: Moolly spent days together and every single time I saw 384 00:23:48,716 --> 00:23:51,876 Speaker 1: him perform, I just couldn't take my eyes off of him. 385 00:23:52,036 --> 00:23:54,916 Speaker 1: And then like I went on one tour with him 386 00:23:54,916 --> 00:23:59,356 Speaker 1: where Justin Timberlake opened one show and Jay opened another 387 00:23:59,836 --> 00:24:04,116 Speaker 1: and they alternated. And I can always tell when something 388 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:07,036 Speaker 1: really is getting to me because I never go backstage 389 00:24:07,316 --> 00:24:10,116 Speaker 1: to refill the glass of wine, so I waited it 390 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:13,356 Speaker 1: was our bathroom break, and I would do that during 391 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:17,276 Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake, never Jay. So you know, there are just 392 00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:21,276 Speaker 1: people that leave me cold, mostly pop stars, and then 393 00:24:21,276 --> 00:24:23,756 Speaker 1: there are people that just to this day, when I 394 00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:27,876 Speaker 1: see Stevie Nixon Lance Light, I cried. Jeremy Mitchell I 395 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:31,756 Speaker 1: was always terrified of because I heard she was nuts 396 00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:36,716 Speaker 1: and I heard she was difficult and hated journalists. And 397 00:24:36,756 --> 00:24:39,756 Speaker 1: when we did a cover of Vanity Fair, Annie used 398 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:43,196 Speaker 1: to do them in panels, like one panel at a time, 399 00:24:43,636 --> 00:24:46,036 Speaker 1: and one year, I think it was two thousand and one, 400 00:24:46,636 --> 00:24:48,796 Speaker 1: I was determined to get everyone in the room at 401 00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:52,516 Speaker 1: the same time, and I worked eight months with the 402 00:24:52,596 --> 00:24:55,676 Speaker 1: help of Jimmy Ivan who would send some people there. 403 00:24:56,356 --> 00:24:59,756 Speaker 1: And so that year I got everyone in the room 404 00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:02,156 Speaker 1: at the same time. And I think that cover was 405 00:25:02,196 --> 00:25:08,356 Speaker 1: Beyonce Bowie, Jule Beck, Stevie Wonder, Johnny Mitchell, Matt Swell, 406 00:25:08,436 --> 00:25:12,156 Speaker 1: Wins to Find Annie, jay Z, Missy Elliott, and Chris 407 00:25:12,196 --> 00:25:18,396 Speaker 1: Cornell another one who's a sad loss. So they were 408 00:25:18,396 --> 00:25:21,596 Speaker 1: all lined up. But I had never met every other 409 00:25:21,716 --> 00:25:25,436 Speaker 1: person on that cover I knew, except I've never met Johnnie, 410 00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:29,196 Speaker 1: and I wanted to go into Annie's studio knowing everyone, 411 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:31,436 Speaker 1: or at least not having to say hello to them 412 00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:35,876 Speaker 1: for the first time. So I told her makeup artist 413 00:25:35,916 --> 00:25:39,996 Speaker 1: who was a mutual friend. He's also deceased now, Paul Starr, 414 00:25:40,556 --> 00:25:42,436 Speaker 1: I really want to meet Johnny. Can I go to 415 00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:45,196 Speaker 1: the Carlisle and just have one drink with her? She 416 00:25:45,276 --> 00:25:48,316 Speaker 1: was staying at the Carlisle. You could smoke in the 417 00:25:48,436 --> 00:25:51,436 Speaker 1: lobby of the Carlisle at that time, and Joanie, of 418 00:25:51,476 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 1: course was a chain smoker. Is not anymore, I don't think, 419 00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:57,716 Speaker 1: But so he said, well, she'll see you for like 420 00:25:57,796 --> 00:26:01,156 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. It was like getting an audience, and within 421 00:26:01,556 --> 00:26:04,716 Speaker 1: the first five minutes. I don't know how I managed 422 00:26:04,756 --> 00:26:07,516 Speaker 1: to get this in, but I thought this is either 423 00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:11,276 Speaker 1: gonna be some thing she like, or she'll get up 424 00:26:11,276 --> 00:26:14,756 Speaker 1: and walk away. And I just said that I thought 425 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:18,356 Speaker 1: my Donna ruined the culture. And she got up and 426 00:26:18,396 --> 00:26:22,356 Speaker 1: she hugged me and we sat there for about four hours, 427 00:26:22,396 --> 00:26:25,636 Speaker 1: went through two bottles of wine, she smoked god knows 428 00:26:25,676 --> 00:26:29,156 Speaker 1: how many packs of cigarettes, and that went on until 429 00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:32,916 Speaker 1: whatever four in the morning. But you know, there's people 430 00:26:32,996 --> 00:26:36,196 Speaker 1: that still kind of turned me on, and I get 431 00:26:36,236 --> 00:26:39,876 Speaker 1: interested and excited about I love a lot of the 432 00:26:39,916 --> 00:26:44,156 Speaker 1: stuff Beyonce is doing. I think she's kind of exceeded. 433 00:26:44,636 --> 00:26:46,316 Speaker 1: You know. You and I have talked about her in 434 00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:49,356 Speaker 1: the past, and when she was in Destiny's Chop, she 435 00:26:49,436 --> 00:26:52,236 Speaker 1: was a pop star and I wasn't that interested in 436 00:26:52,316 --> 00:26:56,236 Speaker 1: her or them, And then I interviewed her, and then 437 00:26:56,236 --> 00:26:59,676 Speaker 1: I've been at parties with her, and I've seen sides 438 00:26:59,716 --> 00:27:04,396 Speaker 1: of her that have absolutely impressed me with her discipline. 439 00:27:04,756 --> 00:27:06,996 Speaker 1: Like I write in the book that the first time 440 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:09,476 Speaker 1: I ever interviewed her, we ordered a pizza and she 441 00:27:09,596 --> 00:27:14,356 Speaker 1: had one slice. I can't imagine ever having one slice 442 00:27:14,356 --> 00:27:16,316 Speaker 1: of a pizza. And I would say to her, you're 443 00:27:16,356 --> 00:27:18,556 Speaker 1: only gonna have one slice, I'm gonna eat the whole 444 00:27:18,556 --> 00:27:20,996 Speaker 1: rest of it, And she say it's part of my job. 445 00:27:21,476 --> 00:27:23,316 Speaker 1: And then I was at a party with her once 446 00:27:23,356 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 1: where they brought us a brownie to the table and 447 00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:28,956 Speaker 1: she cut it into four small pieces, and she had 448 00:27:28,996 --> 00:27:31,636 Speaker 1: one piece, and I just thought, I cannot believe the 449 00:27:31,676 --> 00:27:34,516 Speaker 1: discipline of this woman. But then as I got to 450 00:27:34,556 --> 00:27:37,396 Speaker 1: know her a little bit more, and I saw her 451 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:39,996 Speaker 1: a little more with Jay, and she took a lot 452 00:27:39,996 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 1: of vacations and she started living her life more and 453 00:27:43,956 --> 00:27:48,796 Speaker 1: then also evolving more as an artist. But when I 454 00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:52,676 Speaker 1: scare her sing love on Top, to me, that's like 455 00:27:52,716 --> 00:27:57,196 Speaker 1: an R and B Gospel of Motown kind of vibe. 456 00:27:57,596 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 1: And then I've been in parties with her where she 457 00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:01,916 Speaker 1: can just sing along to any OJ song or any 458 00:28:01,956 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson song. And as Jay said, she's a student 459 00:28:05,956 --> 00:28:08,716 Speaker 1: of the game. She knows every song has ever been done. 460 00:28:09,156 --> 00:28:12,956 Speaker 1: So you're asking me, was seeing the Romans like the 461 00:28:12,996 --> 00:28:17,076 Speaker 1: greatest experience in my life? There have been about fifty 462 00:28:17,116 --> 00:28:21,196 Speaker 1: two one hundred greatest experiences of my life. Considering all 463 00:28:21,236 --> 00:28:24,636 Speaker 1: of the artists you've talked to over the years, could 464 00:28:24,676 --> 00:28:28,956 Speaker 1: you say that there's any commonality between them versus the 465 00:28:29,036 --> 00:28:33,316 Speaker 1: other people you come in contact with in your life. Well, 466 00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:35,836 Speaker 1: there's a lot of differences between the male and the 467 00:28:36,076 --> 00:28:39,436 Speaker 1: female artists. First of all, musicians are always worried they're 468 00:28:39,436 --> 00:28:40,916 Speaker 1: not going to be able to write the next song 469 00:28:41,476 --> 00:28:44,796 Speaker 1: or the right album. But the difference with musicians is 470 00:28:44,916 --> 00:28:47,036 Speaker 1: every single one of them has said the same thing 471 00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:50,596 Speaker 1: to me in that the songs just get plucked out 472 00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:53,596 Speaker 1: of the air. We don't know where they come from. 473 00:28:53,956 --> 00:28:58,316 Speaker 1: I mean everyone from Keith Richards to Lady Gaga, who 474 00:28:58,356 --> 00:29:01,956 Speaker 1: told me that she was watching the hurt Locker, the 475 00:29:02,076 --> 00:29:06,276 Speaker 1: movie in Australia, and all of a sudden, Born this 476 00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:08,436 Speaker 1: Way came to her and she ran out and she 477 00:29:08,476 --> 00:29:11,276 Speaker 1: wrote it in three minutes. Keith Richards told me he 478 00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:15,076 Speaker 1: woke up one morning and he had recorded Satisfaction on 479 00:29:15,156 --> 00:29:18,636 Speaker 1: his tape recorder the night before. I mean, they all 480 00:29:18,796 --> 00:29:23,436 Speaker 1: say that some people probably labor more than others, but 481 00:29:23,956 --> 00:29:27,996 Speaker 1: musicians have a lot of things in common. They fight 482 00:29:28,076 --> 00:29:31,236 Speaker 1: with a record company more than writers fight with publishers. 483 00:29:31,956 --> 00:29:35,916 Speaker 1: The women have had more problems with male record executives 484 00:29:35,956 --> 00:29:40,796 Speaker 1: than the men in terms of occasional sexual harassment. Cheryl 485 00:29:40,836 --> 00:29:44,196 Speaker 1: Kroges told me the other day that she thinks there's 486 00:29:44,236 --> 00:29:47,436 Speaker 1: a lot she had a lot of sexual harassment when 487 00:29:47,436 --> 00:29:50,236 Speaker 1: she was touring with Michael Jackson and Frank de Leo, 488 00:29:50,316 --> 00:29:53,276 Speaker 1: who's since deceased. But in my book, I have a 489 00:29:53,276 --> 00:29:57,196 Speaker 1: whole chapter on abuse, everything from Fiona Apple and Torreamo's 490 00:29:57,276 --> 00:30:04,356 Speaker 1: talking about rape to Lady Gaga other women talking about 491 00:30:04,476 --> 00:30:08,756 Speaker 1: more subtle forms of abuse. Women have the big problem 492 00:30:09,196 --> 00:30:14,756 Speaker 1: of juggling home versus career, and that ideal with in 493 00:30:14,756 --> 00:30:18,156 Speaker 1: a chapter called motherhood because I never wanted to have children. 494 00:30:18,636 --> 00:30:22,036 Speaker 1: But the only woman that I've talked to who said 495 00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:25,996 Speaker 1: she never wanted children and didn't regret it was Dolly Parton. 496 00:30:26,596 --> 00:30:30,636 Speaker 1: Stevie Nick said that she kind of regrets never having 497 00:30:30,636 --> 00:30:33,236 Speaker 1: a child, but she knew she couldn't do it or 498 00:30:33,236 --> 00:30:36,396 Speaker 1: would have broken a fleet with Mac because Lindsey Buckingham, 499 00:30:36,996 --> 00:30:39,756 Speaker 1: even after they broke up as a couple, she could 500 00:30:39,796 --> 00:30:42,316 Speaker 1: never bring boyfriends around Fleetwood Mac, and she could never 501 00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:47,556 Speaker 1: have a child. Men, now, I suppose are more engaged 502 00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:50,396 Speaker 1: with their children. You know, the Home Meet Too movement 503 00:30:50,436 --> 00:30:52,596 Speaker 1: has brought a lot of this to like. But I 504 00:30:52,716 --> 00:30:58,076 Speaker 1: promised to led Zeppelin in the seventies traveling with their 505 00:30:58,116 --> 00:31:01,516 Speaker 1: wives at home with their children and their farms in 506 00:31:01,556 --> 00:31:05,276 Speaker 1: England or Wales. It was a completely different story. But 507 00:31:06,436 --> 00:31:12,196 Speaker 1: commonality with women is very, very obvious, and that's what 508 00:31:12,276 --> 00:31:14,996 Speaker 1: I wrote a whole book about it, because all these rich, 509 00:31:15,116 --> 00:31:18,556 Speaker 1: famous women have the same problems that all women have. 510 00:31:19,076 --> 00:31:22,516 Speaker 1: If you want a career, it's really hard. And even 511 00:31:22,516 --> 00:31:24,636 Speaker 1: if you have a lot of help, if you're not 512 00:31:24,716 --> 00:31:27,836 Speaker 1: with that child, you're worrying what's going on with the child, 513 00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:31,156 Speaker 1: because the women are the caretakers. If a child falls 514 00:31:31,636 --> 00:31:35,636 Speaker 1: and a concrete street, he yells for his mother. It's 515 00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:40,756 Speaker 1: just biological, you know. So Gwen Stefani couldn't keep her 516 00:31:40,756 --> 00:31:44,316 Speaker 1: marriage going. She had a more successful career than her 517 00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:47,876 Speaker 1: husband at the time, so that fell apart. Bonnie Ray 518 00:31:47,956 --> 00:31:51,476 Speaker 1: told me she couldn't stay married because everybody called her 519 00:31:51,556 --> 00:31:55,556 Speaker 1: husband mister Bonnie Ray. I mean, Realna has always said 520 00:31:56,036 --> 00:31:59,876 Speaker 1: in length to me in this book, I'm always suspicious 521 00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:01,516 Speaker 1: of people who want to be with me or want 522 00:32:01,516 --> 00:32:03,956 Speaker 1: to sleep with me. What are their motives? You know? 523 00:32:03,996 --> 00:32:06,236 Speaker 1: And I can't just pick up a guy and have 524 00:32:06,796 --> 00:32:10,916 Speaker 1: a fun night and you know, great ride and he 525 00:32:10,956 --> 00:32:13,756 Speaker 1: wakes up the next day with a great story and 526 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:17,196 Speaker 1: I wake up feeling my ship, you know. Adele told 527 00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:20,676 Speaker 1: me at the time she was very happily married. Her 528 00:32:20,756 --> 00:32:24,476 Speaker 1: husband was older than she was. He understood her career, 529 00:32:24,556 --> 00:32:27,276 Speaker 1: he wasn't threatened by it. And I don't really know 530 00:32:27,356 --> 00:32:32,476 Speaker 1: the reasons why that wasn't able to last. But it's 531 00:32:32,516 --> 00:32:37,316 Speaker 1: just tough. It's tough for women musicians. We'll be right 532 00:32:37,356 --> 00:32:44,836 Speaker 1: back with Lisa Robinson. After this quick break, We're back 533 00:32:44,876 --> 00:32:48,516 Speaker 1: with the rest of Rick's conversation with Lisa Robinson. Tell 534 00:32:48,596 --> 00:32:52,876 Speaker 1: the story of seeing the Ramans and getting Sire involved. 535 00:32:53,596 --> 00:32:56,596 Speaker 1: I don't really know if I got Seymour involved, or 536 00:32:56,716 --> 00:32:59,156 Speaker 1: the fact that we wrote about them very early on 537 00:32:59,236 --> 00:33:02,116 Speaker 1: and put pictures of them in Rocksone. But when I 538 00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:05,036 Speaker 1: saw them, I just was blown away. And so I 539 00:33:05,116 --> 00:33:09,836 Speaker 1: don't really remember the steps to which Seymour sign them. 540 00:33:10,236 --> 00:33:11,716 Speaker 1: I don't know that it was that easy for the 541 00:33:11,836 --> 00:33:14,596 Speaker 1: Ramones to get a record deal. I'm not sure everybody 542 00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:16,556 Speaker 1: got it. I mean, I know how much they meant 543 00:33:16,596 --> 00:33:20,116 Speaker 1: to you and mean to you, and I know you 544 00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:22,796 Speaker 1: think that they were the greatest band the bull time 545 00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:25,236 Speaker 1: if you had to pick one, but I can't believe 546 00:33:25,356 --> 00:33:29,556 Speaker 1: you would really do that. Top three, Top three really, Okay, 547 00:33:29,596 --> 00:33:32,156 Speaker 1: So the Beatles, Remans and who has the clash no, 548 00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:37,036 Speaker 1: maybe like Simon and Garfunkel. Oh, for God's sakes, really, yeah, 549 00:33:37,076 --> 00:33:39,236 Speaker 1: I really like the doors too. I like the doors too. 550 00:33:39,396 --> 00:33:41,636 Speaker 1: I see I didn't like their doors. I just thought 551 00:33:41,716 --> 00:33:44,716 Speaker 1: the doors were like kind of a college band, you know. 552 00:33:44,916 --> 00:33:48,156 Speaker 1: I just thought it was a bit much. I just thought, Jim, 553 00:33:48,836 --> 00:33:52,196 Speaker 1: that was that hull stick, you know, I'm going on. 554 00:33:52,476 --> 00:33:56,876 Speaker 1: And Glorius Davers, who was the editor of sixteen magazine, 555 00:33:56,916 --> 00:33:59,676 Speaker 1: had an affair with Jim, and she said he used 556 00:33:59,716 --> 00:34:02,076 Speaker 1: to call her and say, come over to the Chelsea Hotel. 557 00:34:02,556 --> 00:34:05,156 Speaker 1: I'm about to kill myself for some crazy thing like that. 558 00:34:05,596 --> 00:34:07,676 Speaker 1: They're both dead now, so I don't know if this 559 00:34:07,876 --> 00:34:10,716 Speaker 1: is exactly what happened, but this is how I remember it, 560 00:34:11,036 --> 00:34:13,716 Speaker 1: so I'll stick to this story. And she said one night, 561 00:34:13,876 --> 00:34:16,556 Speaker 1: Jim Calder And said I'm having a really bad trip. 562 00:34:16,636 --> 00:34:18,196 Speaker 1: You have to come over. You have to come over. 563 00:34:18,716 --> 00:34:21,756 Speaker 1: And she said, oh, Jim, really, And she said, yes, 564 00:34:22,196 --> 00:34:24,676 Speaker 1: You've got to come over right now. And Gloria was 565 00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:27,756 Speaker 1: the most glamorous woman. She was a model in the fifties. 566 00:34:28,036 --> 00:34:31,516 Speaker 1: She went out with Lenny Bruce and she went over 567 00:34:31,596 --> 00:34:34,836 Speaker 1: to Chelsea. The door to his room is open. She 568 00:34:35,036 --> 00:34:39,316 Speaker 1: walked in the room. She goes Jim. Jim. She goes 569 00:34:39,356 --> 00:34:43,356 Speaker 1: in the bathroom. She doesn't see him. She thinks he 570 00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:47,236 Speaker 1: just left, so she leaves. She goes home. She's home 571 00:34:47,436 --> 00:34:50,876 Speaker 1: ten minutes. Phone rings, She picks it up. It's Jim 572 00:34:50,956 --> 00:34:53,116 Speaker 1: on the other line. You didn't look under the bed. 573 00:34:55,796 --> 00:34:59,516 Speaker 1: That's one Jim Morrison. Sorry, what did you say? The Beatles, 574 00:34:59,596 --> 00:35:05,476 Speaker 1: the Ramones, Simon and Garfuncle, and the Doors. You've worked 575 00:35:05,556 --> 00:35:08,276 Speaker 1: with so many more fabulous people than that. I mean, 576 00:35:08,716 --> 00:35:14,276 Speaker 1: Johnny Cash, Leonard Come, Trent Resner, Adele Eminem jay Z. 577 00:35:14,836 --> 00:35:16,476 Speaker 1: I mean, I could go on and on and on. 578 00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:21,236 Speaker 1: Surely you're more sophisticated than both Simon and Garfunnel and 579 00:35:21,396 --> 00:35:24,676 Speaker 1: the Doors. Really, I don't know. I couldn't pick three 580 00:35:24,716 --> 00:35:27,556 Speaker 1: top bands. I wouldn't know where to begin. Anyway, anything 581 00:35:27,676 --> 00:35:31,596 Speaker 1: is incomplete list right, and it always it's always changing. 582 00:35:31,756 --> 00:35:35,076 Speaker 1: If it would change depending on what I listened to, 583 00:35:35,316 --> 00:35:39,316 Speaker 1: you know, it changes to me depending on who I'm 584 00:35:39,356 --> 00:35:42,756 Speaker 1: talking to, depending on the day, depending on my mode, 585 00:35:42,836 --> 00:35:46,796 Speaker 1: and depending it's almost hourly. I could tell you top 586 00:35:46,876 --> 00:35:50,236 Speaker 1: ten performances I've seen over forty eight years, which would 587 00:35:50,276 --> 00:35:52,876 Speaker 1: include Bob Marley at the Roxy. What were you doing 588 00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:56,076 Speaker 1: in California for the Roxy show with the Stones in 589 00:35:56,196 --> 00:35:59,996 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, and they closed down the balcony for us. 590 00:36:00,516 --> 00:36:03,716 Speaker 1: So Annie went with her cameras, the whole band went. 591 00:36:04,436 --> 00:36:07,196 Speaker 1: I went and we I'm also Bob Morley at the 592 00:36:07,236 --> 00:36:10,116 Speaker 1: Academy Music and I will or I went with Richard 593 00:36:10,156 --> 00:36:12,596 Speaker 1: and he jumped up standing ovation at the end, and 594 00:36:12,716 --> 00:36:16,836 Speaker 1: I never saw him that outward about something. He was 595 00:36:16,996 --> 00:36:20,196 Speaker 1: very Blaise Richard and jaded in a way and sort 596 00:36:20,236 --> 00:36:23,436 Speaker 1: of calm, but he was so excited he jumped up. 597 00:36:23,476 --> 00:36:26,716 Speaker 1: But I was shocked, but at any rate, So we 598 00:36:26,796 --> 00:36:29,236 Speaker 1: were at the Rock Season nineteen seventy five in the summer, 599 00:36:29,356 --> 00:36:31,756 Speaker 1: must have been July or August. I take the whobod 600 00:36:31,836 --> 00:36:35,396 Speaker 1: more Lisa, and we laid out these shots of tequila 601 00:36:35,596 --> 00:36:39,716 Speaker 1: along under the banister of the balcony, and Annie and 602 00:36:39,796 --> 00:36:43,716 Speaker 1: I must have each had about ten shots of tequila. 603 00:36:44,076 --> 00:36:47,436 Speaker 1: And I never drank tequila before, and I was sick. 604 00:36:47,636 --> 00:36:50,476 Speaker 1: It's like mescal, and I mean I was violently ill 605 00:36:50,916 --> 00:36:53,436 Speaker 1: to the entire next twenty four hours. When I got 606 00:36:53,476 --> 00:36:56,916 Speaker 1: back to the hotel and Annie lost her cameras. She 607 00:36:57,076 --> 00:37:00,116 Speaker 1: left them there. She didn't get her cameras back, but 608 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:02,716 Speaker 1: I had the tape of the performance, so it was 609 00:37:02,796 --> 00:37:05,676 Speaker 1: worth it. But that was one of the greatest performances 610 00:37:05,756 --> 00:37:09,036 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Now as an interview, I cannot say 611 00:37:09,156 --> 00:37:11,036 Speaker 1: brow Molly was a great interview because we did a 612 00:37:11,076 --> 00:37:13,996 Speaker 1: phoner and I could barely understand half of what he said. 613 00:37:15,156 --> 00:37:17,716 Speaker 1: Talk about the last book a little bit in There 614 00:37:17,756 --> 00:37:20,796 Speaker 1: goes Gravity. I only had one chapter about a woman, 615 00:37:20,956 --> 00:37:24,236 Speaker 1: and that was Lady Gerger. For some reason, I had 616 00:37:24,316 --> 00:37:27,476 Speaker 1: just been interviewing her for Vanity Fair Cover Stories, and 617 00:37:27,636 --> 00:37:30,756 Speaker 1: I was so taken with her because she was a 618 00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:34,756 Speaker 1: phenomenon at the time, and yet I just thought she 619 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:38,476 Speaker 1: was adorable and grounded. And I met her parents and 620 00:37:38,596 --> 00:37:42,116 Speaker 1: I had dinner there, and she kept telling me about 621 00:37:42,116 --> 00:37:44,556 Speaker 1: her parents in their house, and she said, oh, I'll 622 00:37:44,596 --> 00:37:46,836 Speaker 1: have to take you there sometime. And I kept thinking, though, 623 00:37:47,316 --> 00:37:50,316 Speaker 1: she'll wait and take Oprah there, you know, we'll never 624 00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:52,556 Speaker 1: do it. But she came through and we did it. 625 00:37:52,636 --> 00:37:55,076 Speaker 1: And we also walked around the Lower East Side and 626 00:37:55,396 --> 00:37:57,316 Speaker 1: anybody that came up to her on the street she 627 00:37:57,396 --> 00:37:59,996 Speaker 1: signed an autograph and she was just told me the 628 00:38:00,076 --> 00:38:04,036 Speaker 1: doorway she wasn't just to sit in and take drugs 629 00:38:04,116 --> 00:38:06,996 Speaker 1: with and she was just incredibly open with me. So 630 00:38:07,236 --> 00:38:10,316 Speaker 1: in a book that was full of a chapter led Zeppelin, 631 00:38:10,436 --> 00:38:13,196 Speaker 1: in my five Doors with Them chapter about the Stones, 632 00:38:13,236 --> 00:38:18,436 Speaker 1: and mostly my nineteen seventy five forty with Them. Michael Jackson, 633 00:38:18,876 --> 00:38:21,356 Speaker 1: who I knew from when he was eleven years old 634 00:38:21,876 --> 00:38:24,836 Speaker 1: and so he stopped speaking at the press. But when 635 00:38:24,876 --> 00:38:27,196 Speaker 1: I met him when he was eleven, he was the 636 00:38:27,276 --> 00:38:31,516 Speaker 1: most adorable, outgoing, cute child, and I looked so cute. 637 00:38:31,596 --> 00:38:34,996 Speaker 1: In the picture of me and him in that book, 638 00:38:35,636 --> 00:38:38,236 Speaker 1: I'm holding my unlock tape recorder up. We're both looking 639 00:38:38,276 --> 00:38:41,876 Speaker 1: at the camera. He's eleven, I look like fourteen. And 640 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:45,476 Speaker 1: in my new book about the Girls, I have a 641 00:38:45,556 --> 00:38:48,556 Speaker 1: picture of a five year old Janet Jackson with her 642 00:38:48,596 --> 00:38:51,196 Speaker 1: back to the camera with braids because she didn't want 643 00:38:51,196 --> 00:38:54,076 Speaker 1: to be photographed. But when I met Michael, he was 644 00:38:54,196 --> 00:38:57,476 Speaker 1: so adorable that day and talented and running around the 645 00:38:57,516 --> 00:39:01,836 Speaker 1: house showing me the animals sort of dancing at the pool. 646 00:39:02,276 --> 00:39:05,636 Speaker 1: And I remember calling Fran and saying, this kid is 647 00:39:05,636 --> 00:39:08,956 Speaker 1: going to be the greatest live entertainer ever, And she said, 648 00:39:09,116 --> 00:39:11,716 Speaker 1: how could you possibly know that he's a loved And 649 00:39:11,876 --> 00:39:14,276 Speaker 1: I said, just trust me. He's going to be amazing. 650 00:39:14,356 --> 00:39:16,796 Speaker 1: I just know it. And so there was a chapter 651 00:39:16,916 --> 00:39:21,956 Speaker 1: on Michael Jackson in which I included the questionnaire he 652 00:39:22,076 --> 00:39:24,996 Speaker 1: filled out when we had a magazine called Rock and Soul, 653 00:39:25,876 --> 00:39:29,276 Speaker 1: and it was what is your nickname? He felt this 654 00:39:29,356 --> 00:39:31,996 Speaker 1: out in his own handwriting. I think he was twelve 655 00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:34,756 Speaker 1: at the time, Amy, And what is your nickname? And 656 00:39:34,836 --> 00:39:40,516 Speaker 1: he wrote Niger and he crossed that out, and then 657 00:39:40,556 --> 00:39:43,996 Speaker 1: he wrote the nose, and then I think there's a 658 00:39:44,156 --> 00:39:47,476 Speaker 1: question what are your interesting? He wrote, children, all kinds, 659 00:39:47,916 --> 00:39:51,596 Speaker 1: all times. And I have kept that questionnaire in the 660 00:39:51,716 --> 00:39:57,316 Speaker 1: safety deposit box for years until I finally thought enough, already, 661 00:39:57,356 --> 00:40:00,356 Speaker 1: I don't want to pay for the safety deposita box 662 00:40:00,436 --> 00:40:03,156 Speaker 1: as well as the four storage spaces, so I have 663 00:40:03,396 --> 00:40:06,796 Speaker 1: that hidden in a secure location as well. But then 664 00:40:06,836 --> 00:40:10,316 Speaker 1: there's a chapter on the whole CBGB's and David Bowie 665 00:40:10,436 --> 00:40:14,076 Speaker 1: and mcclash and Lou and Chrissy Hynd and Patti Smith, 666 00:40:14,796 --> 00:40:18,276 Speaker 1: and chapter on John Lennon because I did so many 667 00:40:18,316 --> 00:40:21,876 Speaker 1: hours of tape with him and Yoko. I mean, the 668 00:40:22,076 --> 00:40:25,916 Speaker 1: way I got to John, to be honest, was through Yoko. 669 00:40:26,796 --> 00:40:33,396 Speaker 1: I heard Yoko's music, and unlike everybody else, at that time. 670 00:40:34,356 --> 00:40:38,236 Speaker 1: I heard the B fifty twos, I heard punk rock, 671 00:40:38,756 --> 00:40:42,636 Speaker 1: I heard weird shit. But I had also grown up 672 00:40:42,916 --> 00:40:47,036 Speaker 1: going to the Living Theater and you know La Mama 673 00:40:47,356 --> 00:40:50,356 Speaker 1: and all that kind of weird performance are. I knew 674 00:40:50,596 --> 00:40:54,316 Speaker 1: Yoko a little bit, but not much, and I wrote 675 00:40:54,396 --> 00:40:56,876 Speaker 1: something nice about her in my column at the time 676 00:40:57,236 --> 00:41:01,156 Speaker 1: in the New York Post. And then she decreed that okay, 677 00:41:01,316 --> 00:41:04,636 Speaker 1: I could be John. So I went to meet them 678 00:41:04,716 --> 00:41:09,396 Speaker 1: both do an interview with her about her album in 679 00:41:09,476 --> 00:41:15,276 Speaker 1: her Bank Street apartment, which was just totally unassuming apartment 680 00:41:15,356 --> 00:41:20,396 Speaker 1: on like one floor below the main street to just 681 00:41:20,556 --> 00:41:23,276 Speaker 1: go down a few steps. There was no security there, nothing. 682 00:41:24,436 --> 00:41:26,916 Speaker 1: This was I when they first moved to New York, 683 00:41:27,036 --> 00:41:31,076 Speaker 1: before he got into the whole immigration ship. And I 684 00:41:31,196 --> 00:41:33,396 Speaker 1: sat in the interviewed Yoko for a long time, and 685 00:41:33,516 --> 00:41:35,836 Speaker 1: then when we were finished, she brought John out, As 686 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:38,916 Speaker 1: I wrote in one of the books, like Dessert, So 687 00:41:39,116 --> 00:41:42,876 Speaker 1: she brought him out, and he was so excited, like 688 00:41:43,156 --> 00:41:45,716 Speaker 1: he was so thrilled that someone was a paying attention 689 00:41:45,756 --> 00:41:48,716 Speaker 1: to Yoko and that it was a woman. And then 690 00:41:48,796 --> 00:41:51,836 Speaker 1: we both agreed that she had been the victim of racist, 691 00:41:52,196 --> 00:41:56,196 Speaker 1: misogynistic stuff. They know It's interesting because, like with Adell, 692 00:41:56,516 --> 00:41:59,756 Speaker 1: when I first talked to Adele, she was already huge star. 693 00:42:00,196 --> 00:42:04,196 Speaker 1: But we were in the car five minutes she driving. 694 00:42:04,796 --> 00:42:07,436 Speaker 1: Within five minutes, she started talking to me about postpartum 695 00:42:07,516 --> 00:42:12,116 Speaker 1: depression after the birth of her son. And I know 696 00:42:12,916 --> 00:42:15,556 Speaker 1: that she had wanted to talk about this, but I 697 00:42:15,716 --> 00:42:18,636 Speaker 1: also knew that she was holding off talking about it 698 00:42:18,956 --> 00:42:21,876 Speaker 1: until she talked to a woman, because every interviewer she 699 00:42:21,916 --> 00:42:24,156 Speaker 1: had done a fire It was with these men and 700 00:42:24,396 --> 00:42:27,316 Speaker 1: fashion magazines and about clothes. And so that's why when 701 00:42:27,356 --> 00:42:30,716 Speaker 1: people ask me, the women relate to you differently, Yeah, 702 00:42:30,956 --> 00:42:33,476 Speaker 1: of course they do, because I've gone through some of 703 00:42:33,556 --> 00:42:37,236 Speaker 1: the same misogynistic shit at any rate, not racist as 704 00:42:37,276 --> 00:42:41,756 Speaker 1: in Yoko's instance, but and jealousy and Beatles fans making 705 00:42:41,796 --> 00:42:45,796 Speaker 1: her this villain and all that nonsense. Anyway, John was 706 00:42:45,876 --> 00:42:50,996 Speaker 1: just so happy that I was talking to Yoko, understanding Yoko, 707 00:42:51,396 --> 00:42:54,796 Speaker 1: writing about Yoko, and then he just talked, talked, and 708 00:42:54,916 --> 00:42:57,196 Speaker 1: we got along so great, and he was so funny 709 00:42:57,236 --> 00:43:00,916 Speaker 1: and so witty and just so sarcastic and so clever. 710 00:43:01,596 --> 00:43:03,876 Speaker 1: And then as the years went on and I would 711 00:43:03,916 --> 00:43:06,836 Speaker 1: interview him more, and I was one of the few 712 00:43:07,076 --> 00:43:09,996 Speaker 1: that she would let into the house Jako, and when 713 00:43:10,036 --> 00:43:12,876 Speaker 1: he went back home, as he put it, between seventy 714 00:43:12,956 --> 00:43:16,276 Speaker 1: five and eighty, I was there. I would interview him. 715 00:43:16,676 --> 00:43:19,916 Speaker 1: I also interviewed him during his lost weekend, not in 716 00:43:20,036 --> 00:43:22,556 Speaker 1: California when he was nuts, but when he was living 717 00:43:22,596 --> 00:43:25,796 Speaker 1: with May Peing over on forty nine Street, when he 718 00:43:25,916 --> 00:43:29,116 Speaker 1: did Walls and Bridges. In fact, he signed an ascetate 719 00:43:29,196 --> 00:43:31,476 Speaker 1: to me, which I have somewhere in the midst of 720 00:43:31,556 --> 00:43:35,756 Speaker 1: my eight thousand vinyl albums, which I gotta sell them 721 00:43:35,836 --> 00:43:38,436 Speaker 1: to someone. Q Tip came here to look at them, 722 00:43:39,076 --> 00:43:42,276 Speaker 1: and he said he was sending somebody back the following 723 00:43:42,316 --> 00:43:45,556 Speaker 1: week to appraise all of them. And I think it's great. 724 00:43:45,596 --> 00:43:48,716 Speaker 1: He'll find John Lennon signed Assitate because Richard and I 725 00:43:48,796 --> 00:43:51,876 Speaker 1: don't remember where we put it. That was two and 726 00:43:51,876 --> 00:43:55,276 Speaker 1: a half years ago on so many and on a 727 00:43:55,396 --> 00:43:58,156 Speaker 1: mere quest. Love told me, I want to buy your albums. 728 00:43:58,196 --> 00:44:00,636 Speaker 1: I want to buy them for my storage in Philadelphia, 729 00:44:00,716 --> 00:44:04,476 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I said, okay, amir, come whenever 730 00:44:04,556 --> 00:44:07,996 Speaker 1: you want. Four years ago it was still waiting anyway, 731 00:44:08,716 --> 00:44:12,116 Speaker 1: So I'm signed an ascitate to Wilson Bridges and called 732 00:44:12,156 --> 00:44:14,156 Speaker 1: me the next day after we did the interview, and 733 00:44:14,236 --> 00:44:17,556 Speaker 1: he said, you know, we were talking about the Beatles convention. 734 00:44:17,716 --> 00:44:20,276 Speaker 1: He would always call me to go, it's me John Beatles, 735 00:44:20,996 --> 00:44:24,396 Speaker 1: and I don't you have to say Beatles, even though 736 00:44:24,476 --> 00:44:27,476 Speaker 1: I know it's a joke. But I don't know anyone 737 00:44:27,516 --> 00:44:30,756 Speaker 1: else named John who has a Liverpool accent at any rate. 738 00:44:31,116 --> 00:44:34,076 Speaker 1: He said, remember we were talking about the Beatles Convention. 739 00:44:34,796 --> 00:44:36,796 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, So you remember you told me you 740 00:44:36,876 --> 00:44:40,316 Speaker 1: have four Beatles trays and a lunchbox and a thermis 741 00:44:40,716 --> 00:44:43,556 Speaker 1: And I said yeah. He goes, well, you know I 742 00:44:43,676 --> 00:44:46,156 Speaker 1: don't have a lunchbox or a thermis or a tray. 743 00:44:47,196 --> 00:44:52,916 Speaker 1: And I thought, really, okay, I meant I messenger a 744 00:44:52,996 --> 00:44:57,556 Speaker 1: tray over to him. And then I thought, oh, you idiot, 745 00:44:57,636 --> 00:44:59,436 Speaker 1: you should have kept the set of four. I still 746 00:44:59,596 --> 00:45:02,036 Speaker 1: have the three. So I did that chapter on John 747 00:45:02,116 --> 00:45:05,236 Speaker 1: Lennon because I just I mean, there were a lot 748 00:45:05,316 --> 00:45:08,156 Speaker 1: of off the record things about John Lennon that I 749 00:45:08,316 --> 00:45:11,916 Speaker 1: won't talk about because they were off the record. But 750 00:45:12,996 --> 00:45:16,476 Speaker 1: one thing that I cannot believe happened is when I 751 00:45:16,556 --> 00:45:19,316 Speaker 1: went to the record plant when they were recording Double Fantasy. 752 00:45:19,996 --> 00:45:22,676 Speaker 1: He said to me, and that was about three weeks, 753 00:45:22,796 --> 00:45:26,076 Speaker 1: maybe before he was murdered, and he said, you know, 754 00:45:26,236 --> 00:45:27,756 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a martyr. I don't want 755 00:45:27,756 --> 00:45:30,156 Speaker 1: to be Mahatma Gandhi. I don't want to be Martin 756 00:45:30,236 --> 00:45:33,236 Speaker 1: Luther King. Because I was talking about how he walked 757 00:45:33,276 --> 00:45:36,076 Speaker 1: around New York and how free he was and he 758 00:45:36,156 --> 00:45:39,116 Speaker 1: didn't have security. And I said how Bowie and Jagger 759 00:45:39,196 --> 00:45:41,356 Speaker 1: had both always told me you can walk down the 760 00:45:41,396 --> 00:45:43,916 Speaker 1: street one way and not get recognized, and you can 761 00:45:43,956 --> 00:45:46,636 Speaker 1: walk down the street another way and get recognized. And 762 00:45:46,796 --> 00:45:48,436 Speaker 1: John Savon, I don't give a fuck if I get 763 00:45:48,476 --> 00:45:51,596 Speaker 1: recognized or now. I like being in New York. I 764 00:45:51,676 --> 00:45:55,476 Speaker 1: don't care about security. And when I wrote up that interview, 765 00:45:56,076 --> 00:45:58,996 Speaker 1: I didn't include that quarte in it because I thought, 766 00:45:59,076 --> 00:46:03,596 Speaker 1: this is looking for trouble and I'll write that in 767 00:46:03,676 --> 00:46:06,916 Speaker 1: the New York Post and some fucking nut will know 768 00:46:07,076 --> 00:46:10,916 Speaker 1: that he walks around without security. So you know, that 769 00:46:11,356 --> 00:46:15,196 Speaker 1: was an off the record thing that I mean. I'm 770 00:46:15,196 --> 00:46:17,956 Speaker 1: glad I didn't write it, but it was kind of creepy. 771 00:46:18,476 --> 00:46:24,596 Speaker 1: And then after he died, Yogo invited me over. She said, 772 00:46:24,636 --> 00:46:26,556 Speaker 1: it's not an interview, I just want to talk to you. 773 00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:28,996 Speaker 1: It was about a month after he was killed, I think, 774 00:46:29,396 --> 00:46:31,396 Speaker 1: so I went over there. I didn't have a tape recorder. 775 00:46:32,236 --> 00:46:34,356 Speaker 1: She was in the bed with the pillows behind her, 776 00:46:34,396 --> 00:46:38,956 Speaker 1: and she was playing recordings of her new album, Thing 777 00:46:39,116 --> 00:46:41,716 Speaker 1: was walking on and I said, I don't remember, and 778 00:46:42,276 --> 00:46:46,356 Speaker 1: she was playing you know, things that she incorporated into 779 00:46:46,436 --> 00:46:49,676 Speaker 1: the songs, like the fans singing outside the Dakota the 780 00:46:49,796 --> 00:46:53,636 Speaker 1: night he was murdered. She showed me his sunglasses broken. 781 00:46:53,996 --> 00:46:55,436 Speaker 1: There was going to be I think, on the cover. 782 00:46:56,036 --> 00:46:57,836 Speaker 1: And she kept saying, this is not an interview, this 783 00:46:57,916 --> 00:47:00,116 Speaker 1: is not an interview. And then about three weeks later, 784 00:47:00,236 --> 00:47:05,436 Speaker 1: I read the exact verbatim stuff in Newsweek by Barbara 785 00:47:05,476 --> 00:47:09,516 Speaker 1: grass Stark, another journalist, and I thought, did she want 786 00:47:09,636 --> 00:47:13,196 Speaker 1: me to write about this or was she like audishiming 787 00:47:13,356 --> 00:47:16,516 Speaker 1: people for who she was going to have this story, 788 00:47:16,956 --> 00:47:19,836 Speaker 1: have it run in the biggest place. I mean, I 789 00:47:19,956 --> 00:47:22,236 Speaker 1: would not have blamed her for not wanting it in 790 00:47:22,276 --> 00:47:25,676 Speaker 1: the New York Post, clearly. But I do remember when 791 00:47:25,676 --> 00:47:28,436 Speaker 1: I was at Vanity Fair, I took a lot of 792 00:47:28,516 --> 00:47:31,556 Speaker 1: my Lenen tapes and I print We printed it in 793 00:47:31,676 --> 00:47:35,116 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, like the lost John Lennon tapes. And I 794 00:47:35,236 --> 00:47:38,716 Speaker 1: remember Jan had put out his own lost John Lennon 795 00:47:38,756 --> 00:47:42,036 Speaker 1: tapes and a book called that, and I remember him 796 00:47:42,076 --> 00:47:45,956 Speaker 1: coming up to me somewhere and saying the lost Germ 797 00:47:46,076 --> 00:47:49,836 Speaker 1: Lennon tapes and I went, uh, huh, mine my lost 798 00:47:49,876 --> 00:47:53,116 Speaker 1: Germ Lennon tapes. But I never had a good relationship 799 00:47:53,156 --> 00:47:55,796 Speaker 1: with Drawing start. I didn't like the way they treated women, 800 00:47:56,316 --> 00:47:58,716 Speaker 1: and I didn't like especially that they had a chart 801 00:47:59,116 --> 00:48:01,636 Speaker 1: of every and I wrote about that in This Girl's book. 802 00:48:02,036 --> 00:48:04,756 Speaker 1: They had a chart of everyone Journey Mitchell slept with 803 00:48:05,516 --> 00:48:08,596 Speaker 1: and they never did anything like that. Fanil young about 804 00:48:08,676 --> 00:48:12,476 Speaker 1: Dylan and also how did he know? And that's fucked 805 00:48:12,556 --> 00:48:17,556 Speaker 1: up anyway. That last book was called a memoir, but 806 00:48:17,676 --> 00:48:20,756 Speaker 1: it wasn't really a memoir. I mean, I don't know 807 00:48:21,076 --> 00:48:23,916 Speaker 1: how I could ever write a memoir would be an encyclopedia. 808 00:48:24,396 --> 00:48:26,836 Speaker 1: I mean, this book I wrote about women is only 809 00:48:27,036 --> 00:48:30,476 Speaker 1: forty women. Sort of the best stories that fit in 810 00:48:30,556 --> 00:48:34,996 Speaker 1: these themes of abuse, fame, motherhood of sex, drugs, age, 811 00:48:35,156 --> 00:48:38,836 Speaker 1: hair and makeup which is a bad image, which is 812 00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:42,996 Speaker 1: my favorite chapter because it talks about how MTV changed everything. 813 00:48:43,396 --> 00:48:45,556 Speaker 1: You know, all of a sudden you were seeing what 814 00:48:45,756 --> 00:48:49,156 Speaker 1: the music was supposed to sound. Like and for those 815 00:48:49,196 --> 00:48:50,996 Speaker 1: of us who just grew up with our eyes closed 816 00:48:51,036 --> 00:48:54,636 Speaker 1: listening to the music imagining what it sounds like, that 817 00:48:55,316 --> 00:48:59,316 Speaker 1: was not my thing anyway. Cool. Thank you for telling 818 00:48:59,356 --> 00:49:02,636 Speaker 1: me stories. Well, we have talked for a very long time, 819 00:49:02,676 --> 00:49:05,676 Speaker 1: and I'm sure this will be wildly edited down, but Rick, 820 00:49:05,796 --> 00:49:09,356 Speaker 1: you know, between you and me, we could talk for 821 00:49:10,756 --> 00:49:14,956 Speaker 1: three times if we had enough breath and our bodies 822 00:49:15,036 --> 00:49:18,356 Speaker 1: could hold up. Thank you, Thank you getting them out 823 00:49:18,396 --> 00:49:24,916 Speaker 1: of me. I appreciate it. Thanks to Lisa Robinson for 824 00:49:25,036 --> 00:49:28,036 Speaker 1: chatting with Rick about her incredible career. Be sure to 825 00:49:28,116 --> 00:49:30,796 Speaker 1: check out her new book, Nobody Ever Asked Me About 826 00:49:30,876 --> 00:49:34,116 Speaker 1: the Grass. To hear more from Broken Record, you can 827 00:49:34,116 --> 00:49:37,236 Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash 828 00:49:37,356 --> 00:49:40,396 Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast, where you can find extended cuts of 829 00:49:40,556 --> 00:49:43,876 Speaker 1: new and old episodes. Broken Record is produced with helpful 830 00:49:43,916 --> 00:49:48,596 Speaker 1: Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and our 831 00:49:48,636 --> 00:49:53,156 Speaker 1: new intern Jennifer Sanchez. Our executive producer is mil Lovell. 832 00:49:53,716 --> 00:49:56,636 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries, and if 833 00:49:56,676 --> 00:49:58,956 Speaker 1: you like Broken Record, please remember to share, rate, and 834 00:49:59,076 --> 00:50:02,116 Speaker 1: review our show on your podcast. Our theme musics by 835 00:50:02,156 --> 00:50:04,396 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond bass,