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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of

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Speaker 1: our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any

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Speaker 1: of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding

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Speaker 1: a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason

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Speaker 1: for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been

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Speaker 1: remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost

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Speaker 1: all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice

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Speaker 1: if you had listened to what we're calling the last

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Speaker 1: twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the

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Speaker 1: music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone

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Speaker 1: back to straight audio, so be warned. We sound a

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Speaker 1: little different today than we do in what you're about

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Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't

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Speaker 1: under say you never know the story is of things

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Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer too. Well. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for joining us again. And this is Thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways the podcast, and I am Steve, as always joined

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Speaker 1: by and this week we're going to take on yet

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Speaker 1: another thing that I don't quite understand. Yeah, well this

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Speaker 1: one I don't quite understand. Because ladies and gentlemen we

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Speaker 1: haven't quite gone in this territory before, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do it anyway. Is what a lot of people believe

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Speaker 1: to be an urban myth? Yeah, and it's hot. Well

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Speaker 1: this one when you when and we'll get into the

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Speaker 1: details of it in the name of but when you

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Speaker 1: get into a lot of things on the net, it

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Speaker 1: seems like you find a pretty solid opinion one way

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Speaker 1: or the other. It's you know, oh, let's real or

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Speaker 1: oh no, total urban myth. Even Snopes on this one

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Speaker 1: is said, oh no, this is a total urban myth.

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Speaker 1: Except my problem is as I read it, I thought that,

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Speaker 1: and then I came across some details it started making

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Speaker 1: me think that maybe there's and gems of truth in it.

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Speaker 1: So what the heck we're going to run down that road.

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Speaker 1: I'm really this is like opening up new territory for us.

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Speaker 1: This is like nothing like we've done yet where show

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Speaker 1: has gone before, but this show has gone before. I

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Speaker 1: listened to that, so no show ever, So no show

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Speaker 1: has ever done this before. Awesome. Yeah, all right, Well

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Speaker 1: tonight we're going to talk about Polebius. If you wait,

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Speaker 1: like the Greek philosopher. No, no, no, no, not that guy.

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Speaker 1: Polebus which is supposedly a arcade game that came out

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Speaker 1: in We're going to step into a little time machine

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Speaker 1: here because not everybody understands this, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: go back to one. And when you played a video game,

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Speaker 1: you had to go to an arcade because they were

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Speaker 1: the stand up machines. It was pinball and stand up

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Speaker 1: arcade games. There's almost no home video games. Hardly anybody

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Speaker 1: out a home computer. Well in Atari had been I

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Speaker 1: don't even know that the Atari gaming system had come out.

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Speaker 1: If it had, it was still in its infancy. They

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Speaker 1: were really expensive. They were very exc and to hook

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Speaker 1: it up to your TV to have a TV that

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Speaker 1: was compatible with something like that also crazy expensive because

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Speaker 1: on tube TVs did not have a bazilion ports on

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Speaker 1: the back well, and they also were they weren't digital,

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Speaker 1: so you had to get a demodulator and or modulator

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Speaker 1: or whatever to you could actually interface those things. But

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Speaker 1: you had to buy this box to do it with.

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Speaker 1: Some had It was kind of fuzzy and crappy looking too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it wasn't easy to do. Playing video games meant

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Speaker 1: you had a roller cords in your pocket and you

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Speaker 1: went down to the arcade that's just how it happened.

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Speaker 1: I remember many a time begging money off of my

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Speaker 1: parents could have a couple of books so I can

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Speaker 1: go play video games. Yeah, yeah, go go. I mean

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Speaker 1: that's just the way to So we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: Polebous and let's go ahead the story. Because it's considered

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Speaker 1: an urban legend or an urban myth, there are all

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Speaker 1: lot of variants and versions of it out there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best to try and wade through those.

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Speaker 1: But let's just get the basic story to start with,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll build from there. All right. So, according

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Speaker 1: to this story, an unnamed arcade here in Portland, Oregon,

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Speaker 1: in one got a new game one or was it several?

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Speaker 1: I heard it was several, you you just right off

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Speaker 1: the bat. I've heard both ways. I've heard it was

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Speaker 1: one arcade. I've heard it was multiple arcades in this city.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that they were all in the suburbs. And

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Speaker 1: I've heard that there was a couple that showed up

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Speaker 1: in other towns on the other side of the country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we should, you know, make a point of saying this.

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Speaker 1: It was like an unknown game, but that was really rare.

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Speaker 1: Then I mean, you know, if you were going to

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Speaker 1: get a new Arcade game, you were telling everybody about it.

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Speaker 1: You're saying, oh, yeah, we're finally going to get this.

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Speaker 1: You know that you kind of you wanted to build

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Speaker 1: hype around it. Yeah. But I also got the impression

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Speaker 1: that this might have been a beta test situation. If

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Speaker 1: they only build a certain number of game cabinets, then

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Speaker 1: that would explain, you know, well, we've just got to

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Speaker 1: try it out and see how it does, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll take it back to the shop and and make

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Speaker 1: our changes and then do our big marketing dump. Probably

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Speaker 1: not a bad idea to just sticks them out there

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Speaker 1: and see how people like him or not. I guess

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Speaker 1: I just feel like, I mean, even at that in

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Speaker 1: beta testing, you as an Arcade kind of say we're

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Speaker 1: getting this beta. You know, the amount of people that

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Speaker 1: would come out for this thing. You say, this is

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Speaker 1: one of four units in existence. Come play this game

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Speaker 1: before anybody else, you know, So to have it just

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Speaker 1: kind of appear mysteriously is is like the first little

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Speaker 1: question mark exactly exactly. Uh so let's keep going here.

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Speaker 1: It turns out this game was super popular and from

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Speaker 1: many accounts, almost addictive. People were lining up, playing it

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Speaker 1: like mad NonStop, and at least one arcade, according to

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Speaker 1: these accounts of it being released, the owner of that

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Speaker 1: arcade said that he noticed, and I'm using air quotes,

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Speaker 1: men in black hanging around, watching the players, watching their reactions,

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Speaker 1: going to the machines, not collecting money, but doing something

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Speaker 1: on the inch side of the machine, and then walking away,

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Speaker 1: which is weird. Well, you know, and I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I really have a hard time believing that, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: are you really going to send some guys like, you know,

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Speaker 1: with porked by hats and black suits and skinny times

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Speaker 1: to an arcade full of teenagers and people? I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on. And of course this is a government, so maybe.

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Speaker 1: But still throughout history you get these reports. A lot

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Speaker 1: of conspiracy theories or urban legends have these like mysterious

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Speaker 1: men in black characters, and I think that it's often

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Speaker 1: used as a term, not as like an actual description,

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Speaker 1: so as possible, yeah, that these guys were actually casually dressed, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it could be that they just they weren't in

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Speaker 1: jeans and Randy T shirts and yeah, thirty five year

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Speaker 1: old FBI agents, you know, in sweatshirts. Yeah, I picture

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Speaker 1: the like Steve Bushemy as a teenager in that episode

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Speaker 1: where Steve Bushey plays a um personal investigator private eye,

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Speaker 1: and he says something about, you know, he was doing

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Speaker 1: an undercover thing in high school, and its just like

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Speaker 1: it just like you know, shows him in a high

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Speaker 1: school like literally just Steve Bushemy, but like wearing kids

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Speaker 1: clothes with skateboard like hey dudes, and dude debts like

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Speaker 1: what are we doing tonight? So I feel like that's

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Speaker 1: like also totally feasible men in black, right, It's just

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Speaker 1: like dudes who are like, oh no, we're thirteen, clearly

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Speaker 1: in their thirties. Yeah no, no, no, I chaved my

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Speaker 1: hair this high up on my fore Yeah no, I

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Speaker 1: diet gray man. It's cool, but it could have been.

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Speaker 1: It's not necessarily been men in black, but just men

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Speaker 1: from the corporation that built these things. Yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: want to see what it could be, some kind of

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Speaker 1: businessmen of some kind. Again, this is as with this,

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Speaker 1: it's rife with possibilities for plausible reasons or yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you've built these machines, you've got them out there for

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Speaker 1: testing purposes to see how people like them. It makes

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Speaker 1: sense to go by the arcade and just see what

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Speaker 1: what people are doing. You absolutely, so this is where

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Speaker 1: things go a little sideways. No pun intended for this

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Speaker 1: particular show. Uh So. Evidently, according to the allegations in

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Speaker 1: the multiple versions that you come across, the machines were

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Speaker 1: having psychoactive effects on players. So they were they were

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Speaker 1: having amnesia, insomnia, night terrors, suicidal tendencies like all this

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Speaker 1: easy behavior. I feel like it should also be mentioned

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Speaker 1: that in every account that happens, right, that's consistent throughout

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Speaker 1: almost every account it is, except here's here's why I

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Speaker 1: don't put a lot of credence in It's in every

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Speaker 1: account because the order of those things written is always

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Speaker 1: is always identical. It's abc D. You think there's a

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Speaker 1: little cutting and paste going on there, Yeah, a lot

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Speaker 1: of that on the internet. But again, and this is

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Speaker 1: this is one of the things that makes me scratch

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Speaker 1: my head is how did they find out that these

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Speaker 1: people suffered from, say, amnesia. That's a very good question, dude,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know where I am. Where am I? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm missing ten dollars in quarters where I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know, the crowd, the crowd pulls the

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Speaker 1: kid away, right, because they're like, they all want to

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Speaker 1: play the game too. It's finally he's died like a

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Speaker 1: million times in a row and he like wakes up

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Speaker 1: from a trance and it can't remember doing it. That's

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Speaker 1: I mean, quantifiable reportable asia. Right, Yeah, that's absolutely possible.

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Speaker 1: Insomnia ssomnia. Again, it's a it's a kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of a tricky one. Unless they did interviews with these

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Speaker 1: with these kids, I assume that these are all just

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Speaker 1: like accounts, right, like kids being like I couldn't sleep

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Speaker 1: last night. That game is messing me up or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely correct. So here's where things really go bad is,

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Speaker 1: according to the story, it was the game was pulled

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Speaker 1: out of the arcades within weeks of having been installed

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Speaker 1: because one player of it's supposedly a boy, had an

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Speaker 1: epileptic seizure from playing the game, which might not even

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Speaker 1: be related to the game. I mean, maybe he was

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Speaker 1: just you know, just passed out. Yeah, it's possible, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into some descriptions of what happens on screen

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Speaker 1: as to why it could have caused a seizure. But

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's believed that basically he had a

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Speaker 1: seizure and whoever made the game just in a panic

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Speaker 1: pulled it and disappeared, and it's going there's there's never

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Speaker 1: been a cabinet, you know, physically inspected, and people like,

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Speaker 1: look right here, this is plevious. We've got it. There's

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Speaker 1: some photos on the net. Again, we're gonna get into

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Speaker 1: some of that stuff, but the story itself is really

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Speaker 1: the main basis we've got to operate from. Yeah, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that's that's one of the reasons I'm kind of doubting

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Speaker 1: this story, just because the people that made this thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know what what somebody would have held

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Speaker 1: onto it a souvenir or whatever, um you know, or

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Speaker 1: maybe all of it. Some one of those machines should

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Speaker 1: have showed up on eBay by now if there were

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Speaker 1: like seven, right, I mean you assume if if you

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Speaker 1: have decided as a game manufacturer, no, we're pulling this

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Speaker 1: for good. Right, they made their cabinets, but the cabinets

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Speaker 1: all kind of looked the same, and if they are

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Speaker 1: making other games, they either repurpose it or are motherboard

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Speaker 1: in it. And the way you go, because I think

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Speaker 1: that saves a lot of money on yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it would, but you know, and I'm assuming if these

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Speaker 1: were prototypes, they were probably in generic boxes. But the

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Speaker 1: thing is, somebody would have saved all the guts and

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Speaker 1: they would have shown up somewhere. Like one time, for example,

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Speaker 1: I bought it. I bought an Asteroids machine years ago,

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Speaker 1: and it was this guy who had everything but the box.

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Speaker 1: He had like the power supply and the motherboard and

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Speaker 1: the control ward and the monitor and everything except the

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Speaker 1: box the cabinet, and I bought it from this guy,

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Speaker 1: and I played Asteroids for years on this thing. I

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Speaker 1: built a crude box to put it in. So somebody,

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody still has those guts somewhere if the

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Speaker 1: game ever existed. Maybe, I guess. I just think that,

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Speaker 1: like if if you have a game that causes seizures

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Speaker 1: and maybe a bunch of other stuff, you maybe just

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Speaker 1: destroy it. I mean, again, you want to recoup your cost.

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Speaker 1: You repurpose it, like you said. So it's it's hard

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Speaker 1: to say, but again you real story says that this

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Speaker 1: happened in the story itself didn't surface until August, so

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Speaker 1: that's what Seventeen years later, suddenly the story just pops

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Speaker 1: up on the Internet. The story comes up on a

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Speaker 1: forum which is coin op dot org, which evidently is

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Speaker 1: a big gaming forum. I looked around a little bit

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Speaker 1: on it, but I'm not a forum guy, so I

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what I was doing it. It's a forum,

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Speaker 1: not a repository of any kind. Again, I'm not positive

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Speaker 1: it might be. I think that in the reading like

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Speaker 1: coin op got bought by somebody else, and so I

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Speaker 1: think that, like the old archives are held, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: clear and I couldn't get a direct line aside. Well,

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Speaker 1: and to be fair, you know, the Internet is way

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Speaker 1: different than the Internet now, and you know, I think

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Speaker 1: it's likely right it may have been a forum, but

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Speaker 1: they're just like really basic forums. But I guess the

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Speaker 1: impress and I kind of have, is that it's just

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Speaker 1: like a repository of Rom's Basically, you know, you download

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Speaker 1: the game you want to play, and you just play

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Speaker 1: it on your computer. That's well, though, I got the

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Speaker 1: impression that coin op was originally basically a BBS old

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Speaker 1: school BBS. Again, I don't know, but here's here's what

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Speaker 1: happens is this original story comes out. There's almost no

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Speaker 1: information about the history of the game. They just say

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Speaker 1: that it's a space shooters slash abstract puzzle game. It's

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Speaker 1: named after a Greek historian Um and I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't lend itself to a whole lot of credibility

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Speaker 1: right off the bat. From that, and everybody on the

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Speaker 1: Internet from day one has ripped this thing to shreds,

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Speaker 1: and that's continued to happen. I mean, if you do,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, if you go out and you search

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Speaker 1: for information on this game and you type it into Google,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna come up with a gazillion hits on it.

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Speaker 1: And you're gonna find people who say it's fake. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna find people who say it's real. You're gonna find

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Speaker 1: some guy who says it's he's got it in his

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Speaker 1: mom's basement. I mean, it's everywhere. Okay, well, the forums aside.

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Speaker 1: Let's and let's just walk through some of the details

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Speaker 1: that have been put out out there. And again I'm

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Speaker 1: putting air quotes around the word details. But the things

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Speaker 1: that I have found that people say about the game,

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Speaker 1: and we'll start with how does the game work? Is

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Speaker 1: the game? It's the game. That's kind of the first

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Speaker 1: thing is there's some conflicting data on that too. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's data all over the map on every point that

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring up in here, and that's that's the

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Speaker 1: hard part. And bear with us, folks, because there are

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Speaker 1: some things that we are hanging on till the end

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Speaker 1: that maybe tie some of this together. But okay, So,

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Speaker 1: according to the information that I've come across, the game

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Speaker 1: was either a an action puzzle game that had a

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Speaker 1: rotating three D puzzle that had it had logic puzzles

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Speaker 1: in it, and it had a maze built in it,

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Speaker 1: kind of like do you remember pac Man, the original

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Speaker 1: pac Man, how you had to run through the maze.

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Speaker 1: That's what they mean by a maze. Um not you

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Speaker 1: know in these new games where your your first person

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Speaker 1: shooter going through these crazy mazes where you can only

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Speaker 1: see ahead. Yeah, we're still probably look at graphics and

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Speaker 1: very simple. It's absolutely simple graphics. The second b is

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Speaker 1: that you're flying through a tunnel and you have to

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Speaker 1: dodge things that are in your path, and as you

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Speaker 1: get farther through the game, things start going faster and

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Speaker 1: lights on the screen began to flash, almost in a

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Speaker 1: strobing effect. So not like that. One that reminds me

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Speaker 1: a lot of um Space age and Dragon Quest or whatever, right,

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Speaker 1: that like stuff and Dragon Slayer. Yeah, Dragon Slayer that

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Speaker 1: where you like just go through and dodge stuff. We're

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Speaker 1: talking something like that. Are we talking, No, we're talking.

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Speaker 1: We're talking generations before that that came out much later.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about more of you know, it's you've got

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Speaker 1: a T junction head and you've got to hold the

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Speaker 1: joystick to the left until you get to that junction

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Speaker 1: and then it's upper down right. I think that this,

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Speaker 1: like the graphics on the screen maybe are rotating that

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Speaker 1: this is this is my gas. This is kind of

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Speaker 1: almost three D graphics. It's in some of the some

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that I came across most video games

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Speaker 1: of the time. If you think of everybody's seeing Super

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Speaker 1: Mario Brothers and the original arcade of Super Mario Brothers

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Speaker 1: or Donkey Kong, and they were in raster graphics, which

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Speaker 1: is just little pixels that turn on to paint an image, right,

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Speaker 1: little bit images. Well, there is discussion that Polybius was

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Speaker 1: a vector graphics game, which is more along the lines

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Speaker 1: of if you remember, like you said, Joe Asteroids. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there was a game and we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: later on, but battle Zone battle Zone is what I

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Speaker 1: was thinking of, because that was also Antari game, which

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Speaker 1: came out not too long after Asteroids, and that was

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Speaker 1: actually a three D game. Yeah, and if if you

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Speaker 1: haven't heard of any of these games, take a minute

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Speaker 1: and just do a Google image search and you'll see

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Speaker 1: what we mean by simplistic line graphic work and vector graphics.

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Speaker 1: And this is kind of a computer thing in terms

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Speaker 1: of how things work. But vector graphics are smaller and

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Speaker 1: easier to render than rester would be. So if your

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Speaker 1: game can do these in vector, then it's faster, especially

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Speaker 1: with the processor in one which is compared to today's

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Speaker 1: standards a snail, it's going to be able to go faster,

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Speaker 1: which is going to be revolutionary for anybody. They've never

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Speaker 1: seen this happen before, so I've heard discussions that it

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Speaker 1: was some experiment to use the vector graphic form. If

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Speaker 1: that's right or not, I don't know. So we're not

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Speaker 1: talking like just an animated sequence, because that's all that

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Speaker 1: like Space Age was was really. I mean, in terms

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Speaker 1: of programming, it wasn't much more complex than pac Man

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. It was just that they had

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Speaker 1: done these like full animated scenes. So we're talking like

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00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: like really basic, extremely basic. Again, Pong was kind of still,

336
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Speaker 1: you know, the grandfather of all of these games at

337
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 1: that time. I'm still waiting for the movie starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.

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Speaker 1: Another game that was kind of vector based, and this

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00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: comes up in the research saying that maybe this was

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Speaker 1: based upon it is Atari put out a game called Tempest,

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Speaker 1: and I know that we watched the video of how

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Speaker 1: Tempest works, which is, you know, it's vector graphics and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of sliding around the edges of a maze,

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Speaker 1: avoiding things and shooting stuff. People say that it could

345
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Speaker 1: have been based on that, or a beta version of that,

346
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: because Tempest, according to everything, came out about four to

347
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,959
Speaker 1: six months after this supposedly hit Portless. So now the

348
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Speaker 1: image that I have in my brain is you know

349
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Speaker 1: in Star Wars when he like has his like like

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Speaker 1: a little guiding thing come down or he's like gonna

351
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Speaker 1: do and it's like that there, Yeah, when he's in

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Speaker 1: the trench. That's now in my brain, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's basically what the graphics. Yeah, that it's that level

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Speaker 1: of sophistication and it's moving quote unquote right past you

355
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Speaker 1: and I guess if that were going fast enough and

356
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Speaker 1: you're trying to dodge things and there were lights flashing

357
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Speaker 1: at you. Okay, I'm getting a good picture here. Yeah,

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00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: sounds like a fun game. And none of these games

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Speaker 1: that we've talked about so far are anything that would

360
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Speaker 1: give someone a seizure. But I did watch and I

361
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: know again I put this up, and I know you

362
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Speaker 1: guys have watched it. There's a current game out there

363
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: was that Super Hexagon. It's a game that basically flash

364
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: is and your everything's rotating and spinning. If it was

365
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: in line with that, And again, ladies and gentlemen, you

366
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: might want to google this. You might want to kind

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00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: especially pause this, go watch it for a minute and

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Speaker 1: a half and then come back to us. Actually, for anybody,

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Speaker 1: if if you do have epilepsy, you probably don't want

370
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,959
Speaker 1: to go to watch that one because that would be

371
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: a bad thing. Yeah, everybody else go look, so welcome back. Yep.

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Speaker 1: That was crazy to watch. I know now you kind

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Speaker 1: of get how somebody could have a seizure because it's

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Speaker 1: not easy to watch that stuff flashing around. Yeah, and

375
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Speaker 1: then imagine playing it like you're just passively watching it.

376
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: Imagine like trying to be in charge of that thing. Oh,

377
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: I would imagine that you'd be like seasick after a while. Yeah,

378
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't imagine that going on. It's not

379
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: just watching it makes me dizzy. Yeah, So let's let's

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Speaker 1: move forward into the actual person. Polibius the Greek historian. Yes,

381
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Speaker 1: because the name of game is based upon a real person,

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Speaker 1: and Polybius lived the actual guy. He was a Greek historian,

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Speaker 1: lived in two sixty four to one forty six b c.

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Speaker 1: He was a historian. He had some views on how

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00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: things should be recorded, which is fine. But really, what

386
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: I like about this guy, and I didn't really know

387
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: about it until I started doing the research, is he

388
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: was one of the first He came up with an

389
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: early cryptographic system to use for communications over long distance.

390
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: So it's called the Polebia square. And what it is

391
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: is you take a grid of five across and five

392
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: down and you start in the upper left hand square

393
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: and you put A B, C, D, and E, and

394
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: then you go down in the next line and there's

395
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: twenty six letters in the alphabet. So he combined I

396
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: and Jane in the same one. Yeah, if you're communicating

397
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: over a long distance. You can use flashes of some kind,

398
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: and you know that the first number is going to

399
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: be the top of the grid and the sex second

400
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: number is going to be on the vertical access of

401
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: that grid, and then you put them together and you

402
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: know it's B and then E and so want to

403
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: and you can build sentences so that great distances, which again,

404
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: I mean, it would have taken me a week to

405
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: write over there, but it took me an hour to

406
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: transmit the message using Flare, much simpler, So I thought

407
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: that was cool. I don't know why he's referenced. Maybe

408
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: it's because of the fact that this is supposed to

409
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: be some kind of puzzle game. But I couldn't really

410
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: make the tie together myself. Didn't They say on one

411
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: account of it that it was like a rotating square.

412
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: That was like, yeah, yeah, so maybe it was a

413
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: reference to that. But the other reference that I was

414
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: thinking about was that he was also besides being a cryptographer,

415
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: he was an historian, and one of his things was

416
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: he felt that any historian should never put anything into

417
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: the historical record without actually interviewing somebody and finding out

418
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: if it was true or not. You know, what do

419
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: you think about it? It might be, you know, like

420
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: like this whole thing, this whole story exactly exactly. Oh man,

421
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: So okay, already even in the name, right, we're like

422
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: we've got two different directions, right. I have found a

423
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: way that this reference is what the game is, and

424
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense. And Joe has found a way

425
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: totally discount the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, somebody was somebody

426
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: was playing a joke, and and and the name of

427
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: the game is itself part of the joke. It's a

428
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: broad hand as to you know what this story is

429
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: all about. Really well, and that's that's a great segue

430
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: into the next bit of data that I want to

431
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: go into, which would be who made the game. We

432
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: never know. We we don't know who made it. A

433
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: Tari and Sega. We're kind of the big boys on

434
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: the block when it came to video games at this time.

435
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: They were the superpowers. They also would have been the

436
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: ones that would have had the resources to say, here's

437
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: seven boxes, let's call beta testamon or and to develop.

438
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: I mean, they had the R and D money they

439
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 1: were creating all of these games, so they totally had

440
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: the money to just as opposed to a small indie

441
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: label that's just going to do the one thing that

442
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: they know work. And plus they had the money to

443
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: sand x marines and sweatshirts around to watch the Yeah,

444
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So there's a lot of conjecture that

445
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: one of these two major labels made it. There is

446
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: a image going around on the Internet of the title

447
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: screen of the game, and actually, I'll be honest, I've

448
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: seen three different images of the game. I've seen the

449
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: title screen, I've seen a black and white of the

450
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: cabinet itself, and I have supposedly seen images of the

451
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: City of Portland's what is it the licensing stickers for

452
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: it to be put into an arcade and play. I

453
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: feel like I want to see these pictures. Also, I

454
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: want to talk to the person who licensed, did you.

455
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't even aware that you have to have a

456
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: license like a licensed stick so people don't have eplectic fit.

457
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: I have seen stickers on games. I'm assuming it's licensing. Again,

458
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: here's the problem. I don't know if it's from this game.

459
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know if it belongs to a video game,

460
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: and I don't even know if they're real. I've just

461
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: seen these. But I've got to go to an arcade

462
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: and arcade now and check out the machines, because I'm

463
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: not finding what. Yeah, there's I know, I know the city, like,

464
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: you know, they licensed things like cigarette machines. I know

465
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: they do that kind of stuff, But I'm not sure

466
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: about arcade games. I mean, actually, I wouldn't put it

467
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: past them. You know what, I've seen stickers on games.

468
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: It looks like they're they're officially issued. So I'm presuming

469
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: that at least in this city that happens. But I

470
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what they're for. But what I'm saying

471
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: is that I cannot say these real because they're the

472
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: same three ones over and over people have tried to

473
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 1: check for photo shopping and all this stuff. The title

474
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: screen of Polibius, it is eight bit graphics, so it

475
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: is from that era. It looks like it's from that era.

476
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: On the title screen there is a name from a company,

477
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: and Joe, You're gonna have to help me out with this.

478
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: How do you how do you say this German? And

479
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: in German that means deletion or a rature of senses,

480
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: as in your senses of the world. So actually I

481
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: think sorry, okay, okay, So there's there's that, but there's

482
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: no record of this company. We don't know who this

483
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: company is. Nobody can find them. They don't seem to

484
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: exist currently, and there's no records of them, you know,

485
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: putting out other games or anything like that. So I'm

486
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: going to find my German dictionary. But I can, I can.

487
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: I'm guessing right now that this word means men in

488
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: black or give him a conspiracy. I'm not sure one

489
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: of the other. There is another direction that we can

490
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: take for who created it, which is there supposedly is

491
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 1: a guy named Cybernogi. Cybernogy, I'm not exactly positive again

492
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: on the annunciation of the Cybernogi is according to use

493
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: net members, which using net remember you using that? Yeah? Well,

494
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: according to us net, Cybernogi created and Cybernogi is a

495
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: German programmer, and people believe that he created he or

496
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: she I should say, created the game as in April

497
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: Fools joke. Evidently Cybernoggi has been known to put out

498
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: April Fool's jokes. Two people on the net, So cyber

499
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: he created the game or he created the legend of

500
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: the game, created the whole thing, as in made the

501
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: whole thing for April fools. But here's the problem is

502
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: that Okay, well people say, okay, well I think he

503
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: did it, and then here's the stories. But I haven't

504
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: seen any research and I couldn't find anything that would

505
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: link the two together. So it's kind of, oh, that

506
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: jerk does that stuff all the time. I'll about that

507
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: jerk did this. Does usually take credit for his April fool, Frank,

508
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: I don't believe. So that's the thing is that people

509
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: will eventually come back and say, we're out in you

510
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: is the one who did that whatever? Maybe yeah, yeah, size,

511
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: which it's not exactly an arrestable offense. Okay, Okay, So

512
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: so next week this will be a two part episode.

513
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: We are going to fly to Germany personally and subjects

514
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: I Gnocgie to some intensive interrogation. Yeah, we can do that,

515
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: or we can just keep going. Okay, we should probably

516
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: just keep going. Okay, I want to go to Chairmany.

517
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: I know you do. I really want to let you

518
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: keep somebody no no battery. Okay. We're gonna move forward

519
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: into the places that it could have been released, where

520
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: the game cabinet actually go. I've come across a couple

521
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: of bits of information that say there was an arcade

522
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: here in Portland called Backwater Alleys, which evidently is closed

523
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: down long ago. They're reported as one of the places

524
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: that supposedly got the game cabinet. Another one is Blue Diamond,

525
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: which is still around. But Blue Diamond is actually a bar. Now,

526
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, but I mean that place is

527
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: a bar restaurant. It's got a full kitchen and a

528
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: full bar and everything. And I suppose at some point

529
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: some he might have Supposedly the building was renovated in

530
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: the nineties and that's when it became a bar. So

531
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: we got Blue Diamond. I've seen reports that say that

532
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: it was in Gresham, Oregon, which is just outside of

533
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: the city of Portland, because again the story says it

534
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: was released in suburbs, so Gresham could be a plausible candidate.

535
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: But then again, I've also heard that it was released

536
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: in Kansas, which is not a suburb of Portland. Shockingly, Yeah,

537
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: they're so close together. Yeah, so I don't know where

538
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: it's at. Well, I thought about Blue Diamond. No, I'm

539
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: saying that I don't know where it was released at. Yeah,

540
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: you don't know exactly where this thing was at. Yeah,

541
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: they didn't say suburbs, and I don't know why. I

542
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: don't know why they picked the suburbs. Don't either. It's

543
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of an odd place to say. Well, think

544
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: about it is, if you put it in various suburban

545
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: places and your your men in black are going to

546
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: have to drive farther distances to go out there and

547
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: monitor the teenagers playing it, I would think you'd want

548
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: to keep them close. In suburbs makes sense because that's

549
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: where the kids are at. That's where the kids are,

550
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: that's where the board kids are. But it's also you know,

551
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: if you do want to keep it under wraps, right,

552
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: it's not like the most central hub. You know, there's

553
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: not as many kids around. So if you decide to

554
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: pull it after a couple of weeks, you can just

555
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: pull it and it won't be like this massive outcry.

556
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: Not that Portland was giant in the eighties, but it'd

557
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: be less of an outcry late, right, And I want

558
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: to jump to a point that we've talked about before,

559
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: which I know we were talking about the pictures of

560
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: the cabinet and the title screen and all that, because

561
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: that's how we got the name of the company. One

562
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: of the things that I couldn't ever come to grips

563
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: with when it came to this title screenshot is how

564
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: did somebody get it? Yeah? Absolutely, Here's the thing. Remember

565
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: these cabinets. It's a glass face with a video monitor

566
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: underneath the case. And it's a CRT monitor. It's old

567
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: school monitor. So even using thirty five millimeter film, the

568
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: screen roles, you're not going to get a good clear image.

569
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: And these images that are put up of this title

570
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: screen they look like screenshot. They look like screenshots. How

571
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: did somebody get the screenshot if the machine was only

572
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: out there for a very short time? Although I guess

573
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: to like counter that, you know, like just in terms

574
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: of things that are coming up in my brain right now,

575
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: why choose Portland for your hoax place? Like? What a

576
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: weird place to pick as a hoax place? Really? You know,

577
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: like okay, some like tiny town in the middle of Kansas, Okay, sure, right,

578
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: or some like really big metropolitan hub, but like Portland,

579
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: Oregon in the eighties is like the weirdest, like literally

580
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 1: the weirdest spot that you could pick. I feel like

581
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: it still is even even I guess more now you

582
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: know there's more people here, but it was it was

583
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: a bit more of a backwater back in but it

584
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: wasn't like totally backwar. So it's just to me, it's

585
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: such a weird, it's unusual place. It's not where you

586
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: would normally want to go to market something. So that,

587
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: but it's also not the kind of place that you

588
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: would pick as like a hoax, right, if you were

589
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: going to like pick a place to start a hoax.

590
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: That that is an interesting point, is that, like you

591
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: would think that people generally, when they're making up stories

592
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: about America, the story is said in New York, Chicago,

593
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: San Francisco, or Los Angeles or some tiny place nobody,

594
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: or maybe Miami or yeah, or some some some strange,

595
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: some squirky little town called Silent Hill or something like

596
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: that from a creepy little place. Yeah. OK, so that

597
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of interesting. Another question mark on this

598
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 1: whole Yeah, this whole thing so far. And I don't

599
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: know if YouTube have gotten this impression, but there's just

600
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: question marks all over the place written read ink for Yeah.

601
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that, and I think, you know,

602
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: it's like as for as much evidence that I feel

603
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: like disproves it, there's also like it's almost the exact

604
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: same amount of almost enough to yeah, see it actually happens. Yeah,

605
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: and we're like halfway through, right, got halfway through? Yeah yeah, yeah,

606
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: we've got and we've got ways to go, and we're

607
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: gonna move on to Joe's favorite subject, which is the

608
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: supposed Men in Black. So here's the thing is that

609
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: it was. It is not unheard of for the government

610
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: to get involved with games, to use them as a

611
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: way to find people with abilities to try to recruit them.

612
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: Battle Zone that we talked about there, which anybody who

613
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: doesn't know what battle zone is, it's this old cabinet

614
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: game where you put your your face into a periscope

615
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: and you drove a tank around and you were blasting

616
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: enemy tanks and driving around. Yeas would also swoop in

617
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: and you have to blast them to So do you

618
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: know what that thing was before it became a video game.

619
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: I heard it was a Bradley Bradley troop carriers. It

620
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: was a training module for Bradley carrier tanks. So this

621
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: is what soldiers did for before they went out in

622
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: the field, as they learned to drive the tank in

623
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: a VR situation. Well, I mean airplane pilots do it

624
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: to this day, they use flight simulators that are open

625
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: to the public. You know, people do use them in

626
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: like a less sophisticated sense. But this has been a

627
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: thing forever. Is that that's how you train Rainbow six

628
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: When that first came out, Evidently the scores and stuff

629
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: like that, we're being fed back to the army or

630
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: the military heard. And again I can't validatee game. No

631
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: it was it wasn't gosh, what was that on It

632
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: was a PlayStation game or something like that. It came

633
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: out a good number of years ago. But supposedly you

634
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: could register scores. So I don't know, and I just

635
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: hear these things. Yeah, it's a weird thing. And there's

636
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of creepy stories. If oh, I played

637
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: the sniper game. When I got to the end, the

638
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: phone number came up, and I called the phone number

639
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: and it was a secret Nervously they offered me a job. Yeah, yeah,

640
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: I tend, I tend to, you know, I mean, I'm

641
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: I'm totally on board with the sinister government theory. At

642
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: the same time, I'm totally on board with the incompetent

643
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: government theory. And I don't I don't think they had

644
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: the brains to come up with ideas like this. Well,

645
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,959
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. Okay, let's just say that somebody

646
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: was collecting data out of the machine. What could you

647
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: get out of a nine video game processor besides the

648
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: high score? Well okay, and not that sophistic record video.

649
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: They can't record audio. So I mean, is it just

650
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: they're doing duration and score? I mean, yeah, you could

651
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: get that. The data, the data you could get out

652
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: of it would be like, you know, maybe how often

653
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: it was played and how much it was played. You

654
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: can get that kind of stuff. But of course, if

655
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: you're sending men in black around and just like skulking

656
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: skulk in the shadows and watch the kids play, and

657
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: they're noticing the kids lining up around the block to

658
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: play this game, they don't really need to download the

659
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: data about how frequently the game was played. Yeah. Actually,

660
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, to me, the idea of them school I

661
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: just like hanging around makes way more sense than the

662
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: idea of them like, you know, coming to collect data.

663
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: I guess maybe if they saw someone that was like

664
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: playing it a lot, they would want to know what

665
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: your high score was or something like that. But I think,

666
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, this seems much more like a situation where

667
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: they would want to know how it was affecting people

668
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 1: more than they would want to know about high scores

669
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: or how long it's played or anything like that. The

670
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: machine itself wouldn't give you that information. Now it's plawed. Okay,

671
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: let's go with the sins for government again, and let's say, okay,

672
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: it's plausible that they had some kind of video recorder,

673
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: and it would have been a video recorder would have

674
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: been on tape in the box, filming everybody who was playing.

675
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: And so we're going and changing the tape, literally changing

676
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: the tape I could have been to They might have

677
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: been like the handles that we used for playing the game.

678
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: You know, maybe they had galvanic response mechanisms built into them,

679
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: so they could actually probably download what is that they

680
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: could like actually from the from what's going on in

681
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: the electric currents in your skin, they can tell what's

682
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: going on with your nervous system, and so in the

683
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: eighties they can Yeah, I'm not so sure about that,

684
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: but again, these are men in black, so they probably

685
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: had some sophisticated tools that the rest of us didn't

686
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: have back in there. I guess, you know, I think

687
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: what it really was. Should I save my my my

688
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,959
Speaker 1: summation of what I think it really was until the end? Okay,

689
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: I think I think it makes sense to me that

690
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: if you're going to send some agents to like stand

691
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: and watch behavior, if they say, oh, yeah, we're text

692
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: for this thing, and we're going to have to go

693
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: in like once a day just to make sure it's working,

694
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: that's a great cover story for why they're hanging out

695
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: all day instead of like we're just here watching the kids, right,

696
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: I mean, so, yeah, we have to open it up

697
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: once a day, you know, for no good reason except

698
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: to like have a good cover story. I don't know

699
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: her government, there's all this, yes, I mean all right,

700
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: so the machine disappeared. Yeah, it was taken away. It

701
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: was taken away and probably executed and probably had a

702
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: blindfold cigarette. Yeah you suck. Well, now everybody is saying, well,

703
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: where's the ram of it, which, if you don't know rams,

704
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: where you only memory. It's a game you can download

705
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: and play on your computer, and they do remakes of

706
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: all these old games. Dude, this is my favorite thing

707
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: in the entire world. MS. Yeah, I spend a lot

708
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: of time playing my all time favorite game, which is

709
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: a sn S game that you can only play on

710
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: your computer. Now, I mean unless you have an S

711
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: n S. So which one Earthbound one? Oh it's so

712
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: good you should. We'll have this discussion, like I need

713
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: to get the wrong for Asteroids. Yeah all right, Well anyway,

714
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: so a ROM is a recreation of the game, and

715
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: there have been just like everything else, a bunch but

716
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: oh I've got a wrong of the game. Okay, let's

717
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: see it. I lost it, it got deleted or the

718
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: most famous one out there is everybody would get this

719
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: wrong and it would load the title screen that was

720
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: on the internet. It would make this weird noise and

721
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: then it would crash. I okay, So I have a

722
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: big problem with this again saying you know, I love rams.

723
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: There aren't a lot of ROMs for things that have

724
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: been only arcade games because it's really hard to translate.

725
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess this is made up statistic,

726
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: but the majority of the ROMs out there are games

727
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: that have been on console translated by the company that

728
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: of any kind, um, so, games that exist solely in

729
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: arcade box format. I know this because that I have

730
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: an arcade game that I'm obsessed with and like literally

731
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: can play for hours. And I wanted to find the

732
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: RAM of it one time, and I do this a

733
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: bunch of research, and it you know, comes out that

734
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: unless it's been released on a console, your likelihood of

735
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: finding a ROM of it is like none. Yeah, it's

736
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: just not going to happen because it's so hard to translates.

737
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure somebody's just like totally reprogrammed. I'm sure, I'm

738
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: sure somebody, because I mean it's so freaking classic. I mean,

739
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: how could it not well, and it's easy. Yeah, it's

740
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: pretty simple of the game. Yeah. So but with something

741
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: like this, you know, my belief of a ROM existing

742
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: in any capacity is very low. Ladies and gentlemen. I

743
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 1: would to apologize quite obviously we're geeking out on video. Yeah, yeah,

744
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: we are. Sorry. I've been holding back not to just

745
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: run down that road. Here's the thing. If this is

746
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: a wrong, it should work, and there is, and we're

747
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: going to go back to the big bad government conspiracy theory.

748
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: People have said, well, it's a direct translation, but of

749
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: course the hardware in a PC doesn't work like the

750
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: hardware in the actual machine does, so it can't do

751
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: the mind control voodoo. That's the thing I've ever heard

752
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: that anyone. It doesn't it. It does not hold water

753
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: for me. But it is funny that I see this now.

754
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: I also will say that there are a bunch of

755
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: people who say they have ROMs that aren't actual wrongs,

756
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: because what they've done is they've taken the descriptions of

757
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 1: the game and then they've recreated it the way they

758
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: think it would have been. Yeah, which is really interesting

759
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: to me. Actually, it is interesting, and I've watched them,

760
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,479
Speaker 1: and I gotta be honest, it looks like a lame

761
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: game based on the way people built it. And also

762
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 1: again I can see why you get a seizure because

763
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: nothing but flashing lights and more. Yeah, And you know,

764
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: and that's that's the other thing too, is that perhaps

765
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: this game actually existed, perhaps they did put some beta

766
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: versions in in our cades, and perhaps it was just

767
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: so lame that told what he played it and that's

768
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: why it disappeared forever. Yeah, And that the whole urban

769
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: myth of like people lying it's just kind of been

770
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: the built up version of it. Yeah, could have been

771
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: just a really lame game, or it seems lame to us,

772
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: because like you know, our games now are super right,

773
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: but like you know, and again we were talking about

774
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: like this whole introduction of vector graphics and maybe you know,

775
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: it was super flashing lights and everything, and you just

776
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: kind of like got carried away with it. And the

777
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: reason it was addictive was because you were so busy

778
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: like paying attention to flashing lights that like you sucked

779
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: at the game. Right, It's just like these graphics are

780
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: so cool, what's going on here? And then you die

781
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: a million times. It's so far. We have a lot

782
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: of information that basically is uncorroborated, and at this point

783
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: in my research, I would have dumped this story, except

784
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: there's one character that we haven't talked about, not Santa.

785
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: It's a guy by the name of Steven Roach, Stephen Roach.

786
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: He is based out of the Czech Republic. In March

787
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, he went on a bunch of

788
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: forums and he made a post and it's the same

789
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: post he he literally cut and paste. He wrote this

790
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: thing up and cut pasted it every time. He claims

791
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: that he was involved in the creation of Polybius and

792
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: has a bunch of details about the game and its

793
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: history in terms of how it was made, why it

794
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: was made, where all of this stuff which we're gonna

795
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: go into, I will say right know that there is

796
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot of doubt cast upon the validity of this

797
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: guy's story. People have picked it apart. He's done some

798
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: interviews and people have turned around and said, well, you know,

799
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: it's pretty funny. His answers almost exactly match what was

800
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: on the Wikipedia page about this. Okay, Well, you know

801
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: the problem is Wikipedia is constantly changing, and he could

802
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: have updated or somebody could have read his details put

803
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: them on the wiki page, and then everybody asking, well,

804
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: that's weird, they Matt almost word for words. He could

805
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: he could have actually he could actually have edited the

806
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: wiki page of himself and stuff. Yeah, he could have

807
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: been an updator on it. I guess my My big

808
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: question is like, why wait till two thousand six. Well,

809
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: we'll get into that, okay, So let's let's just start

810
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: at the beginning. So Joe helped me again. What is

811
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 1: the name? How do you pronounce this? Actually, that's spelling

812
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: it differently now since slosa and actually this is the

813
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: spelling is different. Well that's fine, that's fine because this

814
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: is how he pronounces it versus the internet. Um, but

815
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: he said This was a company that he and a

816
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: couple other amateur programmers had put together in eight and

817
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: they were approached in nineteen eighty by a South American

818
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: company that he wouldn't give the name of for legal reasons.

819
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: I guess they paid him. He probably signed an NDA

820
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: and non disclosure agreement, so he's you know, he's keeping

821
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: his mouth shut on that, which is understandable. Uh. They

822
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 1: came and said that they wanted an arcade game made

823
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: that was going to use puzzle elements, but as we

824
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: talked about before, they wanted to use vector graph Okay, well,

825
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: this all makes sense so far. So they make this, uh,

826
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: this puzzle game and it's it's got all this different

827
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: and stuff going on, things that haven't been seen in

828
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: video games, and they're all agog, they're really excited. And

829
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: then the game gets released by this company. One of

830
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: the places, he says that there were seven cabinets made. Okay,

831
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: one of the places here in Portland, Oregon that he

832
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: says it was released was the Lloyd District. Okay, wait,

833
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go back to my previous statement about

834
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: like Portland being a weird place to pick right, and

835
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: then like furthermore the Lloyd District, especially in the eighties

836
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: was kind of a dump. Trying to find like a

837
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: good word for that. And I feel like I can

838
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: say that. I mean, I was born in seven in

839
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: the Lloyd District, so I you know, in the nineties

840
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: it was a dump. In the eighties it was a dump,

841
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: you know. And and it's not even like a very

842
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: well publicized area of Portland. So for somebody to be

843
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: creating a hoax by saying, oh, it's Portland, and then

844
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: to like further it by saying, oh, and it was

845
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: in the Lloyd district, Like that's such an obscure place

846
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: to say something like that. I just feel like, you know,

847
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: I think, for whatever reason, I feel like it leads

848
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: credence to the story. Interestingly, to the Blue Diamond, which

849
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: is now a bar, is kind of on a southern

850
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: periphery of the Lloyd District. Okay, So again again weird

851
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: things stitched together in the story. So I don't know.

852
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: So he goes on to say that about a week

853
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: or not even a week after the game was put out, evidently,

854
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, the kids were lining up, they were all

855
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:43,720
Speaker 1: enjoying it. And then a thirteen year old boy has

856
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: an epileptic seizure while playing the game. So all the

857
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: executives are freaking out because they think that, oh god,

858
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: we've we've made the worst thing in the world. We're

859
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: going to give people seizures before they pull it. Of course,

860
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: now word gets out, according to Roach, that word gets out,

861
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: and now it's now this is a fun game to play.

862
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: It's teenage boys daring their buddies to go play it,

863
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: or their buddies going I'm tough, I'll played it will

864
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: be which does not help the image of the sure

865
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: so this this is all bad And he said he didn't.

866
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: He say that they had play tested it for like

867
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: a really long time as adults. All the adult developers

868
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it but didn't have any of this reaction.

869
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: But they may not have had you know, they may

870
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: not have been epileptic. Well they probably weren't, but you know,

871
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: I think that that's what the question, right, is that like,

872
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: if an epileptic person plays something that's got flashing lights,

873
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: they are probably going to have a seizure. And it's

874
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: probably not the fault of the game, not that, but

875
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,479
Speaker 1: years ago probably well these things were not as well.

876
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: Monitors is the wrong word, but well understood. The tech

877
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: oology wasn't good enough. I know personally, I've been in

878
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: work environments that were kind of high security would be

879
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: a way to say it. And so that you know,

880
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 1: your monitor was watched and screen captures were remotely taken

881
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: of your monitor. And we had employees who said, listen,

882
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: I have epilepsy. You can't take screen crabs of my

883
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: screen because when the screen capture would cause the monitor

884
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: to do a little flash, and that would be enough

885
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: to set this person off. And so the company couldn't

886
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: do it. So it was you know, I mean, I

887
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 1: can see if you're not used to it. This rule

888
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: had been made until this one guy came along and said, uh, hi,

889
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: can't do that to me, And so everybody's testing it.

890
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: It's fine, and then oh, we didn't think about that.

891
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: But it's still is a little strange because Okay, what

892
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: happens is the game is very popular. One kid has

893
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: an epileptic seizure, which may or may not even be

894
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: the fault of the game, and they're all like in

895
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: panic mode, and they pull all the machines just like really,

896
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 1: I guess I just I think it makes sense to me. Honestly,

897
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, the I mean even the scaremongering that happens

898
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: with like current video games where people say like, oh,

899
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: if you play this game that has guns in it,

900
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: you're going to become a murderer, you know, And that

901
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: I think is kind of kind of the same situation

902
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: where you have this game that's out for a week

903
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: and it's technology that people don't really understand, and some kid,

904
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: whether he has epilepsy or not, you know, has a

905
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: seizure or has an adverse reaction to it. The technology

906
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: is so new, people are just gonna say that thing

907
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: did it, that thing's fault. There is always that possibility,

908
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: although at the same time, I know when I was

909
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,959
Speaker 1: a kid, there were always kids that we knew were

910
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: just spazzes. So so it's like out but like everything else,

911
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: it's peppered with doubt. Well of one of the things

912
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: I'm interested in finding out, and I didn't occur to

913
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: me to that to actually check this out, is that

914
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: have there ever been any video game manufacturers based in

915
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: South America? Oh, I'm sure I don't know that. They

916
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: weren't the manufacturer as far as I can tell, it

917
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: sounded like they were. What was it. How did Roach

918
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: put it? Let me grab this. Yeah, well, it sounds

919
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 1: like was was basically him and some friends who were programmers.

920
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: So it sounds like they developed some software. But it

921
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: doesn't sound it does not sound like they had the

922
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: capability to actually produce hardware. No, but again, if it's

923
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: a South American company, it could have been some group

924
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: that just said an investment group of some kinds. So

925
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: they went to some other country and said I need

926
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: you to make me this hardware. They went another country

927
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: and said I need you to build this. You know,

928
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: it could have been just piecemealed out so that when

929
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: it got time to do it. No, two people that

930
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: were involved in opposite sides knew the other, and that's

931
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: that's how cells work. Absolutely, so it's quite possible. So

932
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: Roach goes on to talk about though, he says, Okay, well,

933
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: this whole thing about men in black, I can tell

934
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: you who that was. That was all the exacts at

935
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: all the investors who were panicking and came flocking to

936
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: the area to deal with this this event, you know,

937
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: this this seizure that this boy had and to try

938
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: to mitigate the impact of it. So now they're all

939
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: hanging around the arcade and they're all nervously staring at

940
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: the machine and talking. Of course, everybody's like, what's that?

941
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: A bunch of dudes do it, So it could be

942
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 1: as simple as a misinterpretation. They're staring going, oh god,

943
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: don't play it, don't play it. Don't play it. Kids,

944
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: Like why is that guy staring at me while I'm

945
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: playing the game? I mean, if a kid had a

946
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: Caesar in an arcade, there's nothing that anybody could do

947
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: to keep that out of the new pature. And and

948
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 1: let's face it, this is kind of a slow, slow

949
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: move in towns at that time. Well, but they also

950
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, they were saying that like there was this

951
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: massive fearmongering that happened, right, there was this massive scared

952
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: but I I want to I want to pull back

953
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: on that because it may have been fearmongering amongst the

954
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: company and the investors panicking rather than the public. That's possible. Well,

955
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: and and here's the other problem is that we can't

956
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: find any record of this boy. But a settlement out

957
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: of court was made evidently family, So there's gonna be

958
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: no lawsuit on record because they just did it under

959
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: the table, listening and I'm sure that they signed, do

960
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: not you probably so they've never been able to talk

961
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: about it. Says that they were trying to, you know, basically,

962
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: after that, he and his buddies they disbanded the company

963
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: they made because they just wanted to distance themselves from

964
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: this whole thing fell apart. It was terrible and like, no,

965
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: we don't want to keep making stuff and be haunted

966
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: by this ghost forever. But you know, the thing that

967
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: I found less credible about this is he published his

968
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: little his little thing in two thousand and six. So

969
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: the cultural difference between American two thousand and six in

970
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: N is number one. In ninteen eighty one, we weren't

971
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: such a litigious society. And you know, in in nineteen

972
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: eight one, and I was alive back in those days.

973
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: I know that if you know, for example, I was

974
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: playing a video game and I had an epileptic seizure,

975
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: my parents probably wouldn't think about suing the company that

976
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 1: made it. They would just assume I had an epileptic fit. There.

977
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: You probably wouldn't find a lawyer to take the case,

978
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: because I mean, the lawyer just say, the jury is

979
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: gonna laugh at your kid has epilepsy, well know, and

980
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: so I mean, I mean, and so to the lens

981
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 1: of two thousand six Litigious America, this sort of panicking

982
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: on the part of the company of the company makes sense,

983
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 1: but in n it doesn't make sense, I guess. So

984
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,280
Speaker 1: the counter to that is that, like, so, for instance,

985
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: my brother, who does not have epilepsy, has had two

986
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: seizures in his life, and you know, both of them

987
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: were by outside sources, and that happens to people. So

988
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, we've been saying it's an

989
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: apple to fit, it's an maybe he just had a seizure.

990
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: Maybe he you know, because some people just that just

991
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: happens every once in a while. You don't have epilepsy,

992
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: but if this game has if something has given something,

993
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that even in the eighties,

994
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: if your kid isn't sick and then suddenly they have

995
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: something horrible happen to them, maybe they're not gonna, like,

996
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, go through like we're gonna see you for

997
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: a million dollars. But probably the company is going to

998
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: be like, listen, let's just deal with this right now.

999
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know, you know, it's hard to tell.

1000
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: Again again, the kid is also the kid is in

1001
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: an arcade which has got dozens of other arcade machines

1002
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: in it, which has obviously been playing one of those.

1003
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: And it could have been that, it could have been

1004
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: that he just had recently consumed, like just minutes before

1005
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: thirty six pop Sickles or something like that. I mean,

1006
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: it could have been all kinds of things that cost us. See, yeah, sure,

1007
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: and that's definitely possible. But I think you know, if

1008
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: it's the startup like whatever, you know, nobody really knows

1009
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: what they're doing. They're experimenting with new visuals that people

1010
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: haven't really seen before. I think that the tendency for

1011
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: a company to panic is greater when they're kind of

1012
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: experimenting in this sort of situation. But you know, again,

1013
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: this is we're having exactly the debate that everybody's happen online.

1014
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: Well again, and I think I think again, actually, when

1015
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: it's not a startup one they're a really big company,

1016
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: then then they're typically seen as a deep pocket by attorneys.

1017
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: But when they're just a startup with not a lot

1018
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: of capital or anything like that, you know, they're not

1019
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: they're not really a worthy target because they don't have

1020
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: any money to take from. Well, let's let's move farther

1021
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,919
Speaker 1: into to the information that we get from Steven Roche.

1022
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: So according to a Roach and his explanation is difficult,

1023
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: and I'm actually going to try and read this verbatim

1024
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: to describe this to everyone. But this is how he

1025
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: says the game was played. And again, personally, this game

1026
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: sounds lame. But the game is centered around a moon

1027
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: base large which he says is largely played darized from

1028
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: Star Wars, which displayed a number that doesn't what's what's

1029
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: that mean exactly? I'm guessing there was a number in

1030
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: the middle of the moon base. Okay, let's get farther in.

1031
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: I think this will help clarify a little bit more so.

1032
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: There's six sets of different aliens. The firch, which varied

1033
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: through six levels, appears as random waves sent out from

1034
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: the moon base and need to be destroyed. The others

1035
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: were numbered between one and ten, which had to be

1036
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: repelled back to the base to lower the total. The

1037
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: figure you had to match exactly to clear the level,

1038
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: otherwise you lose two lives or just one if you

1039
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: have one remaining. So, if I understand the way he's

1040
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: saying this, correctly. The moon base, let's say, comes up

1041
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: with number fifty five and a shift comes at you

1042
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: and it says five, and you bounce it back into

1043
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: the base. It sounded to me like you were trying

1044
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: to get the moon base to drop back down to

1045
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: zero by pushing numbers back into it, like a like

1046
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: a mix between a shooter game and a math game. Yes, yeah, ok, yeah,

1047
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: so that's how he says. And he goes on to

1048
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: to give out some more stuff, which makes the description

1049
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: even more convoluted and difficult to follow it. I don't

1050
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: I just don't want to read it because it doesn't

1051
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: logically make sense to me. But what he does say

1052
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: is that the longer a specific level goes on, faster

1053
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: the game gets, which we've all seen in every video game.

1054
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: That what as you go longer the screen, the lights

1055
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: begin to flash, and if you beat the game, the

1056
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: screen rapidly flashes. Puts up the word polebius and eventually

1057
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: says polybius. And I'm guessing it probably isn't that prototypical,

1058
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, that deep throated weird voice that they always

1059
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,919
Speaker 1: had an old video games, which if this kid beat

1060
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: the game and it's rapid flashing could be what caused

1061
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: the seizure. Well yeah, I mean you know that makes

1062
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: sense to me that they would have rapid flashing. Right,

1063
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: you blew up the moon. It's the representation of the

1064
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: explosion of said moon. Too sophisticated, So you know, it

1065
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: says Plebi. You know, based on that description, I can

1066
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: see how somebody could have a caesar from it. But

1067
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: I can also you know, it does kind of sound

1068
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: like a lame game, but I can also. You know,

1069
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: when I was a kid playing like math Rabbit or whatever,

1070
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: like get addicted to those things because you know, you

1071
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: just in your mind, you just are competitive and you think,

1072
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 1: well if I just played again, maybe this time I'll

1073
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: do better, you know, And it's just it just feeds

1074
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: on it. I played the crap out of Asteroids. I

1075
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: played the Holy Heck out of the Star Wars game.

1076
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: It's a total vector base to this game. If I

1077
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: to this day, if I see that game, I'll play it.

1078
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can't help myself. I gotta drop fifty

1079
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: cents in and play. Yeah, listen, there are games. This

1080
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: is how. There's that bar downtown called ground Control, which

1081
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: is like an adult arcade, and like there are games

1082
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: there that like nobody ever wants to play, but I'm

1083
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: sitting there playing them like drunk, Like I've got a

1084
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: couple of beers in me. I'm just like playing it,

1085
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: just shoving quarters in and there's no reason for it

1086
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: except for that I can't pass them up because you Yeah,

1087
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: by the way, do they have asteroids there? Yeah? Probably

1088
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: there's got a long time. I mean, you know, so

1089
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those games that you think you think,

1090
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: like empirically, you're like, wow, it sounds boring, but then

1091
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: you like get into it and you're like, oh man,

1092
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: so fun and so hard. But if you do this,

1093
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: it's really good. Yeah, I mean it's completely plausible. Yeah.

1094
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: And you know the thing that I always say about like, again,

1095
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: i'm a little bit nerding out here, but like video

1096
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: games of the past versus video games of now, right,

1097
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: video games of the past you had to you had

1098
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: to hate before you could love them. And I think

1099
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: that's a great thing to say about a game like this,

1100
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: where like you would hate this game, you would hate it,

1101
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: but you wouldn't want it to beat you, so you'd

1102
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: go back and play and play and play it. And

1103
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: I can see how people would just get or you'd

1104
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: watch that one guy who was really good somehow figured

1105
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: it out and then you couldn't help but watch him play. Yeah. Absolutely,

1106
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: so you know I can see just based on that description. Actually,

1107
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: that description is far more interesting to me than any

1108
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: of the other things we've Yeah, I mean really like, okay, cool,

1109
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: it's like shooting some asteroids or whatever. Fine, but like

1110
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: you have to keep track of the number, and like

1111
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: you have to hit the right numbers back and then

1112
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 1: also dodge the ships then also shoot the like waves,

1113
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: and also the graphics are really cool and new. Well,

1114
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: that doesn't make a lot of sense to me again

1115
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: because like you're supposed to knock back the ships. That

1116
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: the ships come out with numbers, and not all of them.

1117
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: Some come out without and you gotta kill some come

1118
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: out with a number, and you got to knock them

1119
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: back in there so and you know, and and the

1120
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: never has to match exactly, which means that if I say,

1121
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: say you're at like the number the random number generated

1122
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: was thirty three, and you've knocked back and knocked back

1123
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: like five ships to total dirty, so that means the

1124
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: number is at three right now, and the ship comes

1125
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: out and it's got the number four on it, so

1126
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 1: you dodge it. So you dodge it, But then it

1127
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: gets past you, and that doesn't start shooting at you know,

1128
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: surely it just continues, right, Those I don't think are

1129
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: probably maybe you can destroy them. I don't know. Maybe ye,

1130
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you used to destroy. We don't know. We

1131
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: know nothing. We could sit here for another hour and

1132
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: talk about that's a good point. We don't know. And

1133
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: the worst part is that's the end of the information

1134
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: we have. Yeah, we've got the Internet legend, We've got

1135
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: some details that people seem to repeat, but I can't validate.

1136
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: We've got a story by Roach which sounds plausible, and

1137
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: I can see credence in bits and pieces, but I

1138
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: can't none of it stitches together. And this is probably

1139
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: the loosest bit of This is the loosest story we've

1140
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: done yet, because it's all over the map. Yeah, And first, personally,

1141
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: I find no reason whatsoever to believe Stephen Roach. And

1142
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: also I think we've gone on long enough. It's time

1143
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 1: to solve the mystery. Oh, Joe knows the answer, apparently,

1144
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: What is the answer, Joe, Well, it's pretty freaking obvious. Okay,

1145
01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: this is a the best department experiment to it a

1146
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: video game, and the idea was to create a video

1147
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: game that would cause people to completely spas, go insane,

1148
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: kill themselves. The idea was that once they perfected this

1149
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: and tested it, then they would air drop like millions

1150
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: of these in the hostile countries like Iran, North Korea

1151
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: or whatever and and totally decimate their populations. So they

1152
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: put so they put out a beta version in Portland,

1153
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: and and the other thing to get is one one

1154
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: Katie Spas is out and has an epileptic fit, you know,

1155
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: and so a major disappointment. So they pulled it and

1156
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: they put him in a huge warehouse somewhere like the

1157
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: one you see at the end of Ridges of the

1158
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,919
Speaker 1: Lost Art where they still are. And uh, and that said,

1159
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: that was the end of the experiment. They decided it

1160
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: was like, you know, they just couldn't create a video

1161
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: game that would cause people to spas out and kill themselves.

1162
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: I I personally, my personal opinion is that I think

1163
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: that it may have been real, but I don't think

1164
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: it was real in terms of the actual incarnation that

1165
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: we hear about you all of the stories. I think

1166
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: that it probably is this is an amalgamation of several

1167
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: stories of several games that have been merged together through

1168
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: the mishmash of the Internet. There's enough concrete or solid

1169
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: believable information here that I'm willing to run with it.

1170
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: I just don't think that Polebius was real. I think

1171
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: that it was beta versions of tempests or battles under

1172
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: any of these other games that are out there, or

1173
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: games that we don't even know of because they just

1174
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: faded from the memory of the social group. Is that

1175
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 1: I think that it was. It's just a bunch of

1176
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: them stitched together. I think that you know, actually, if

1177
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: you to look for a credible version of the whole thing,

1178
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: it's like if you can imagine some nerve that hung

1179
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: out in game arcades back in those days, and this

1180
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: game shows up and it's it's put out in a

1181
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: few places, not just his but and it turns outack, no,

1182
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,919
Speaker 1: but what I mean, it's like, so, okay, so this guy,

1183
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: this guy is like like witnessing that the arrival of

1184
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: this game from nowhere, and it's really popular with him

1185
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: and his dorky friends, and it's like they really like

1186
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: it a lot. But it turns out it's not it's

1187
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: totally a dead letter and every other arcade they put

1188
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: it in. So a couple of weeks go by, you know,

1189
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: and maybe randomly some kid has an epileptic seizure while

1190
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: he's in the arcade. Then the game gets pulled because

1191
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: it's obviously a failure because besides, aside from this guy

1192
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: is nerdy friends, nobody else likes it or plays it.

1193
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: So they pull it and that's the end of that.

1194
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: And then this guy like sort of like, you know,

1195
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: years later he's like, you know, tax it onto the

1196
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: end of the Southern legend. Yeah, it's like this guy

1197
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 1: years later says, you know, I can't believe this. You know,

1198
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: this this arcade game shows up and and everybody was

1199
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: nuts about it, meeting him and his friends, you know,

1200
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: and then somebody has some much somebody like has an

1201
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: epileptic fit, and then they pulled the game and and

1202
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: and that was it. The whole thing just went down

1203
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: the memory hole. But now maybe it was just purely

1204
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 1: a game that sucked and nobody wanted to play it,

1205
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: and so they pulled it out. What do you think

1206
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: that I honestly, I don't know what I think, you know,

1207
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: I do I think that there's Yeah, I really am actually,

1208
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 1: you know, I think that there's a lot of stuff

1209
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: that's great in the story, and I think there's a

1210
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that pure crap in this story. I

1211
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 1: you guys know, when you probably listeners, you now know

1212
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: based on my like little rants, I'm really passionate about

1213
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 1: video games. I really like them. And you know the

1214
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: fact that there are so many things that I almost

1215
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: like want to be true. I just I just can't

1216
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: decide either way whether it existed or not, you know.

1217
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: And I do think that since we do have the

1218
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, pleasure of living in Portland, maybe we can

1219
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: find a little more about it, but probably not. You know,

1220
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: I think that if that stuff was to be found,

1221
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: it would be on the internet already, would be part

1222
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 1: of the story, because I think this is the thing

1223
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: about internet. People speculate and and they cut and paste

1224
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: and make stuff up. If anybody, any of these people

1225
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: are out there that are actually busily obsessing over this

1226
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: this topic, they would have done a couple of things.

1227
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: They would have looked for a South American software company

1228
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: that was specialized in video games. They would have gone

1229
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: through the Oregonians archives. They would have looked in German records,

1230
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: because there's got to be at least one nerd out

1231
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: there in Germany who's following this intensely, who could actually

1232
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: look in public records to see if a company was

1233
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: ever incorporated called Zinnish Lawson. No, and nobody's done this. Yeah,

1234
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to say. Yeah, well, ladies and gentlemen,

1235
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave this one unsolved. That would be permanently unsolved.

1236
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: Maybe permanently, but uh, that having been said, if you'd

1237
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: like to go ahead and check out some of the

1238
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: links for some of the research that we did for

1239
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: the show, you can go ahead and check that out

1240
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,520
Speaker 1: on our website. The website is, of course, thinking Sideways

1241
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:57,639
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can listen to the show right

1242
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: there on that website. You can also go ahead and

1243
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: listen to the show on iTunes if you want to

1244
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: go in and download, and probably most of you the

1245
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: download do it through iTunes. Got a couple of minutes,

1246
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: go ahead and leave us that comment as well, because

1247
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: that's what helps other people find us. Uh. If you're

1248
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: on the go and you realize that you know a

1249
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: new show has come out and you forgot to download it, well,

1250
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: of course, you can find us on Stitcher, which is

1251
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 1: available on just about every internet capable device, and you

1252
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,879
Speaker 1: can stream it right there. You can always go ahead

1253
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 1: and send us an email. So if you've got thoughts

1254
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: on this particular episode, or stories that we've got on

1255
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: the site, or stories you'd like to hear any of

1256
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 1: the above, or anything else, go ahead and you can

1257
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: send us an email. Our email address is Thinking Sideways

1258
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. And as a matter of fact, yeah,

1259
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:58,440
Speaker 1: we have some listener comments. Well it's it's good. Um.

1260
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean basically what it is is, there's this little

1261
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: website called Reddit. It's a little tiny um, but we

1262
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: actually got a message there from a user anyways, he

1263
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: uh really likes our show. He looped us in with

1264
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: like a bunch of other really awesome podcasts um and

1265
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: also suggested podcast topic for us. Yeah, which we're definitely

1266
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: gonna get to. Um. But I just thought we'd give

1267
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 1: him a little shout out, because you know, I like

1268
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: hearing great things about our show. I don't know about you, guys,

1269
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: I don't care. It's a story to look into it. Yeah.

1270
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 1: The mom Talk Project, which is I think going to

1271
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: be a lot of research. Okay, Yeah, I've not heard

1272
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, it's a conspiracy, so Joe might have

1273
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: to head So eighteens. Thanks or do that, whatever whichever

1274
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 1: you are, we appreciate it. Yeah. I guess I just

1275
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: assumed you were a dude, but you could be a

1276
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: check totally okay. Al right, well that having been said,

1277
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: once again, thanks for for slogging through this one with us,

1278
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. I know this. We didn't. We didn't

1279
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: think this was gonna be turned into as big of

1280
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: an episode as it obviously has. But I hope you

1281
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and we're gonna go ahead and wrap it

1282
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: up and U we'll come back at you next week

1283
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: with something completely unrelated to today's show and completely interesting Jo,

1284
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: then we'll talk you later. It was aliens. Yeah, I

1285
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want to