Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its meaning. What Carl slam it? Oh,
Speaker 1: Carl left wing reball.
Speaker 2: Perfect, Darlin lock pop, then HELLI block the shot at
Speaker 2: the rim?
Speaker 1: How with the left hand and of fowl.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Chase Doown Podcast, part of the Caves Media family.
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented
Speaker 2: by Fubo, the officials streaming partner of the Calves. Watch
Speaker 2: over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV,
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Speaker 2: Slash Calves. The Cleveland Cavaliers are two and zero against
Speaker 2: the Miami Heat and Evan Mobley is your defensive Player
Speaker 2: of the Year. It is defensive player of the Year,
Speaker 2: not podcaster of the Year. The voters did right by
Speaker 2: our guy. And joining me today is my co host,
Speaker 2: Carter Rodriguez. Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1: I'm doing great, feels great.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, justice was done at the award level. You
Speaker 1: know I said I wouldn't care about awards ever again,
Speaker 1: and I'm such a liar, such a fraud. I really
Speaker 1: wanted this for Evan. I feel like he really earned it.
Speaker 1: I didn't want bad faith stuff to take away his accomplishment,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, for his second major award
Speaker 1: nomination of his career. And it just feels really good
Speaker 1: that he was rewarded.
Speaker 2: It feels great to see him rewarded. I can hear
Speaker 2: you know you talked about how you didn't want to
Speaker 2: care about awards again, I can hear how much you
Speaker 2: care in your voice. Here you're cracking up and speaking
Speaker 2: of your voice. We have brought in reinforcements front of
Speaker 2: the podcast making his return. Jeff Nomina. Jeff, how you doing.
Speaker 3: Buddy, wonderful? I can be the tide Jerome, I can
Speaker 3: I can jump in here. You know when the two
Speaker 3: when the two when the two stars get a little
Speaker 3: beat up and try to fill in.
Speaker 4: So also very excited about.
Speaker 2: I can see, I can see, yeah, I can see
Speaker 2: on your YouTube are trying to fill in and you're
Speaker 2: filling in the wrong lane. My guy, you got to
Speaker 2: stay in the middle of the camera. It is I'm
Speaker 2: I'm super excited to see mobiley win, you know, Defensive
Speaker 2: Player of the Year. Jared Allen obviously talked about how
Speaker 2: the Cavs play ethical hoops, and I think one thing
Speaker 2: that doesn't get talked about enough when we talk about
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley is he plays ethical defense. Right. So many
Speaker 2: times when we see the elite defenders in the league,
Speaker 2: think of you know, lou dor Draymond Green, some of
Speaker 2: the other guys that deserve mention in this conversation and
Speaker 2: deserve votes. A lot of the time we talk about
Speaker 2: how their reputation has allowed them to get away with
Speaker 2: some stuff, right, Like, you know, that's probably a foul
Speaker 2: on a lot of other guys. There's a lot of holding,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of shoving. There's a lot of little
Speaker 2: things they do to trick the rules and to give
Speaker 2: themselves an advantage. On the defensive end, Mobiley plays about
Speaker 2: as clean defensively as you could expect anyone. Really. You know,
Speaker 2: half of his blocks could be classified as steals because
Speaker 2: he's keeping it in play. He's you know, sending it
Speaker 2: to teammates. He's not somebody that is putting elbows into guys.
Speaker 2: His ability to recover when he does lose, you know,
Speaker 2: that first step is almost second to none in the NBA.
Speaker 2: He's just a complete freak on the defensive end, And
Speaker 2: I mean that in the most complimentary way possible.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of fun because it feels like at
Speaker 1: the beginning of his career he was so toolsy and
Speaker 1: you know, had all these splash plays. But I remember
Speaker 1: early on where like I think Jarrett is like still
Speaker 1: like the best conductor for the defense. This is like
Speaker 1: rookie year Evan, and then last year it is like,
Speaker 1: oh they're drawn even Like it feels like, you know,
Speaker 1: Evan's gotten there at the same level, and now it's
Speaker 1: the splash plays and the communication and the preventing plays
Speaker 1: from even happening, and kind of being able to make
Speaker 1: every single play, every part of the floor. Like I
Speaker 1: just feel like he's really gone up another level every
Speaker 1: single year. Not just in terms of his physicality. Obviously
Speaker 1: he's much stronger, much more capable of guarding in the
Speaker 1: post than he was as a rookie, but his understanding
Speaker 1: of the game has just gone up and up and up.
Speaker 1: He was a savant when he came in, and even
Speaker 1: savants have room to grow. I gotta ask you, guys,
Speaker 1: because I was just thinking about this because we've never
Speaker 1: said it out loud. I don't think on this podcast
Speaker 1: at least, is Evan the best defensive player in the
Speaker 1: history of the Cavaliers franchise?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, no, I'm you go first answer that one.
Speaker 2: I need a mariny with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think back like old old you know,
Speaker 3: to the to the Nan seniors or l Ron Harper's,
Speaker 3: you know, trying to think back to those days, but
Speaker 3: in like the kind of the modern era.
Speaker 4: He has to be right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe, you know, I can't think I should
Speaker 2: have done some research. I wasn't expecting to get hit
Speaker 2: with this question, but I feel like he's the first
Speaker 2: to win defensive players.
Speaker 1: He is the first Cavalier to ever win.
Speaker 4: Doesn't account if your defense is your offense.
Speaker 2: That's a great, great question. You know. The thing is,
Speaker 2: I feel like there were years that Lebron deserved to
Speaker 2: win Defensive Player of the Year. I think he was
Speaker 2: insanely impact.
Speaker 1: Those best in the league defenses. He absolutely was.
Speaker 2: And as much as that, as much as I believe that,
Speaker 2: you know, in my heart and soul and that he
Speaker 2: was deserving of being Defensive Player of the Year, just
Speaker 2: you know, was going up against Dwight Howard and other
Speaker 2: really deserving candidates. I just think your ability to impact
Speaker 2: the game as a big man defensively exceeds anything you
Speaker 2: can really do on the perimeter. And the other thing
Speaker 2: that always just comes to mind is how immediately Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley transformed the Cavs defense. Because the Caves did have
Speaker 2: Jared Allen for quite a bit of that year, you know,
Speaker 2: the the year prior to him being drafted, and Jared
Speaker 2: obviously had a very large impact on defense. I think
Speaker 2: he's someone that deserves all defensive can you know he
Speaker 2: deserves honestly, he deserves to make one of those teams.
Speaker 2: He probably won't just because of how good Mobile is.
Speaker 2: But I think the way that Mobley transformed what was
Speaker 2: the bottom of the league defense into a perennial fantastic
Speaker 2: defense I'm always in the top ten, particularly great when
Speaker 2: he's on the court. That's something that not a lot
Speaker 2: of players can do. And that's also not something that
Speaker 2: you ever really expect from young players. You expect there
Speaker 2: to be a prolonged learning curve for defensive big men,
Speaker 2: and that just wasn't there for Mobile or you know,
Speaker 2: the things he had to learn were more nuanced things
Speaker 2: rather than making his game actually impactful on that end
Speaker 2: rather than having those splash plays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm willing to say it. I really
Speaker 1: do think he might. I don't think I've watched a
Speaker 1: player and just thought, like, this guy has no defensive
Speaker 1: flaws quite like I've watched Evan. You know, I think
Speaker 1: he is. I think he is the the best defensive
Speaker 1: player in the history of the franchise, at least of
Speaker 1: my adult life. I think Lebron is probably number two,
Speaker 1: which goes to show how insane Lebron was early in
Speaker 1: his career. And like, maybe maybe if I had just
Speaker 1: lived you know, two thousand and eight Lebron and then
Speaker 1: lived this year's Mobley, it would be a little closer.
Speaker 1: But like, I just feel like to your point, Evan
Speaker 1: immediately came in and created a defensive identity for the team.
Speaker 1: And it's crazy to think how many all time Cavs
Speaker 1: greats are on this roster right now. But you know,
Speaker 1: Mobley does continue to jump to the top of a
Speaker 1: lot of lists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like there's a shortage of great
Speaker 2: defensive players in cas history either, right, that a lot
Speaker 2: of them we didn't get to watch because we're young.
Speaker 2: And that disclaimer needs to be thrown on here. But
Speaker 2: when you talk about it's like Larry Nann Senior and
Speaker 2: even seeing you know, what Brad Doherty and those guys
Speaker 2: would do in their heyday. I can't really, you know,
Speaker 2: comment the same way. But this is the first time
Speaker 2: that you've had that.
Speaker 1: Tape.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately it was not I. I'm going to be honest
Speaker 2: about where my strengths and weaknesses are. That's probably one
Speaker 2: of my blind spots. But this is, you know, the
Speaker 2: first to get that national recognition. Now, were you a
Speaker 2: little worried that, you know, the the Draymond push, the
Speaker 2: media push, the voting odds. Where were you at kind
Speaker 2: of throughout this process because I was so fired up.
Speaker 3: I was so fired up when it first happened, and
Speaker 3: then like recently it felt like a kind of calm
Speaker 3: back down. But I I was like to the point
Speaker 3: where I didn't want Draymond whin no matter what.
Speaker 4: Like I was almost okay with anyone, like anyone.
Speaker 3: But Draymond's stance for a little while, because just begging
Speaker 3: for it on a podcast felt too sad of a reason.
Speaker 4: To give it to someone.
Speaker 2: It really did. And the tricky thing with these awards
Speaker 2: is it does feel like going into some seasons, they've
Speaker 2: been prede determined to some extent, or at least there's
Speaker 2: a very strong narrative to start the year. I think
Speaker 2: back to the last three years really, coming into every season,
Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, well this is the year Luca's going
Speaker 2: to win MVP, and he's done things to get himself
Speaker 2: out of that conversation, whether you know it's some thing's
Speaker 2: on court or missing you know, the number of games,
Speaker 2: or just playing in a league with Nick Jokic, which
Speaker 2: can have that effect. But I think to Peyton Pritchard
Speaker 2: in six Man of the Year, like that seemed predetermined.
Speaker 2: But before the year even started, it didn't really matter
Speaker 2: what ty Jerome did this season. There was already so
Speaker 2: much momentum and he was such a heavy favorite coming
Speaker 2: into the year that it really felt like that there
Speaker 2: wasn't proper consideration given to anybody else. And it kind
Speaker 2: of felt that way with Wemby coming into this season
Speaker 2: and a lot of people, you know, when I listened
Speaker 2: to national podcasts, they'll talk about how you know Wemby
Speaker 2: was going to win this award. It was a foregone conclusion,
Speaker 2: and you know, this is some sort of consult you know,
Speaker 2: consolation prize. One thing I want to point out on
Speaker 2: February thirteenth, when Wemby you know, played his last game
Speaker 2: and had to leave with the blood clots, the San
Speaker 2: Antonio Spurs had a one to ten defensive rating with
Speaker 2: him on the court, and the defense was five point
Speaker 2: four points better with him on the court. When Mobli
Speaker 2: was on the court for the Cavs, they had a
Speaker 2: one oh six point eight defensive rating and the defense
Speaker 2: was six point three points better with Mobley on the
Speaker 2: court versus off. And I think it's really important to
Speaker 2: note that that off sample size is with Jared Allen,
Speaker 2: who is in all NBA, you know, an all defensive candidate,
Speaker 2: playing there, rather than Zach Collins and whoever else the
Speaker 2: Spurs had coming in off the bench, Mobley was having
Speaker 2: a larger on off impact than even Victor Wembanyama. And
Speaker 2: that's not to say that Wemby wasn't, you know, deserving candidate,
Speaker 2: or that there wouldn't have been an argument for why
Speaker 2: he should win. But I think people weren't really looking
Speaker 2: at the numbers the same way because if you're arguing,
Speaker 2: you know that Wemby's dragging the spurs to to some
Speaker 2: great defense. He wasn't he wasn't having as large of
Speaker 2: an impact as Mobley, and I felt prior to that
Speaker 2: situation Mobley deserved to be in the conversation a lot
Speaker 2: more than he was at the time.
Speaker 1: Bro I couldn't agree more. I And it's a weird
Speaker 1: spot in you know, a discourse argument to not be
Speaker 1: like Wimby's bad defense, that's not what we're saying. No,
Speaker 1: and or that it's a bad pick to say that
Speaker 1: he was going to be the defensive player of the year.
Speaker 1: But like the degree to which the conversation just seemed
Speaker 1: over didn't make sense to me at all. Didn't make
Speaker 1: sense to me with Pritchard, Like and it just feels
Speaker 1: like we kind of pick and choose our spots on
Speaker 1: when we're going to really lock in on opening up
Speaker 1: the discourse versus shutting it down. And Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think MOBILEI is not a by default defensive player
Speaker 1: of the Year. I think he was the best offense
Speaker 1: player in basketball this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And you know, it's frustrating
Speaker 2: some awards. I think, you know, when it comes to
Speaker 2: clutch Player of the Year, Darius Finishing sixth is absurd
Speaker 2: when he was the most efficient clutch time scorer. It
Speaker 2: was one of the highest you know clutch scores for
Speaker 2: points per game and all that kind of stuff. I
Speaker 2: can understand that. I can understand voters not you know,
Speaker 2: giving as much thought to it. But Defensive Player of
Speaker 2: the Year that's prestigious. Man, Like there are you know,
Speaker 2: contract incentives, which you know, congratulations the mostly for hitting those.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, that's one of the benefits of
Speaker 2: what the Cavs did at the deadline to get under
Speaker 2: the luxury tax for this season and stop that repeater
Speaker 2: clock from starting. He got basically a really really good
Speaker 2: team all locked up for future years and you don't
Speaker 2: have to really worry about this. You don't have to
Speaker 2: worry about these guys getting accolades. So I think they're
Speaker 2: in a great position. But Defensive Player of the Year,
Speaker 2: that's an award that that deserves proper you know, consider
Speaker 2: when it comes to the voting.
Speaker 3: It felt a bit like Wemby's physical skills to just
Speaker 3: kind of outweigh everything else you talked about Mobile coming in.
Speaker 3: It's sort of a levant and not understanding and not
Speaker 3: that Wemby's a slouch on that end, but it's nical
Speaker 3: attributes are just still overpowering, and it felt like people
Speaker 3: just kind of saw that and went straightforward. We're not
Speaker 3: kind of taking into the full account of everything. Mobiy
Speaker 3: dug out there that getting captured by just being massive
Speaker 3: and blocking.
Speaker 4: Shots in this stand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big, big shouts to do you r guy Evan.
Speaker 1: It's cool seeing them get this kind of recognition. It's
Speaker 1: cool seeing you know, Kenny in the front runner for
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year. And you know, I do think
Speaker 1: it's reflective of the expectations of this roster. You know,
Speaker 1: you have the Coach the Year, you have an All
Speaker 1: NBA First Team candidate, and Donovan Mitchell, you have the
Speaker 1: defensive Player of the Year. Like, you know, like these
Speaker 1: there's a reason this team is in the title pick
Speaker 1: because of all of these contributions up and down the roster.
Speaker 1: A third place in fourth place and sixth man of
Speaker 1: the Year. Like as much as like and I'm certainly
Speaker 1: guilty of this, as much as we've kind of cried,
Speaker 1: you know, foul of the way the award races have
Speaker 1: finished at the top and in the way the narratives
Speaker 1: have kind of gone, like you can't say that the
Speaker 1: guys haven't been well represented at every level, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: almost every major award, the Cavs are going to finish
Speaker 1: in the top five to four in some former fashion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Donovan's going to be a top five
Speaker 2: finalist for you know, MVP and deserving. So I think
Speaker 2: he's going to be a first team All NBA guy.
Speaker 2: It takes, you know, it takes a lot of very
Speaker 2: talented individuals to be as good as the Cleveland Cavaliers,
Speaker 2: and I think we saw that once again in Game two.
Speaker 2: Game two. Eric Spolstra is one of the most infamous
Speaker 2: things in basketball. He always finds a way to see
Speaker 2: those games. That's where the Boston Celtics were, you know,
Speaker 2: got caught on their home court last year against Miami
Speaker 2: in the first round against a worse Miami roster frankly
Speaker 2: because it was still no Jimmy Butler, but there was
Speaker 2: no Davion Mitchell and there was no Andrew Wiggins. You know,
Speaker 2: they always seemed to find ways to win those games.
Speaker 2: And you know, to to start Game two, Miami came
Speaker 2: out really had the intensity high. I thought they played
Speaker 2: a terrific game to start the game and then the
Speaker 2: Cavs kept their composure. It was a big defensive play
Speaker 2: from Jared Allen spiking the ball to Darius Garland to
Speaker 2: get that you know, transition a law up to Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 2: I thought gave a lot of life to the team.
Speaker 2: That the crowd started getting back into it. It was
Speaker 2: loud as hell e Rocket Arena. It was really really
Speaker 2: good to see the Cavs respond in that way. But
Speaker 2: then we saw Miami do their own responding. Cavs got
Speaker 2: up by nineteen. Miami made their own run and really
Speaker 2: made a game of it. It was concerning. It was
Speaker 2: concerning to to see Miami do that, just given their
Speaker 2: history of finding ways to steal those games on the road.
Speaker 2: But for the Calves to once again, as you know,
Speaker 2: the best clutch team in the regular season, come away
Speaker 2: with a clutch win against the Heat, I thought they
Speaker 2: did a very good job of averting disaster in that scenario.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Je, if you go first, I got some thoughts,
Speaker 1: but I want to hear what you Oh, you want
Speaker 1: to hear what you get to say first.
Speaker 3: I've been super impressed with Miami because I feel like
Speaker 3: both games the Calves have had stretches or played well
Speaker 3: in a way that in the regular season put teams
Speaker 3: away almost immediately, you know, that Cavalanche last game and
Speaker 3: the first game just start to finish.
Speaker 4: I thought they played pretty well.
Speaker 3: We normally see those games get out of hand, and
Speaker 3: I thought Miami really clawed and fought back in it
Speaker 3: in a way that.
Speaker 4: It was almost jarring.
Speaker 3: We're so used to just like you know, seeing the
Speaker 3: CPJA and Luke Travers and the guys come in halfway
Speaker 3: through the fourth because we've.
Speaker 4: Got a twenty five point lead.
Speaker 3: So I won't say it's concerning, but it was just
Speaker 3: it was imprected that Miami was doing that really in
Speaker 3: for a fight for this whole series, and you know,
Speaker 3: kudos to them because they're not doing it and I
Speaker 3: don't mean this is a slot like Slator, but like
Speaker 3: they're not doing it based on like matching his talent
Speaker 3: for talent, right, They're doing it and in pretty impressive ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I rewatched the game today. I actually jumped in
Speaker 1: and listened to the Dunker Spot boys do a live
Speaker 1: rewatch and breakdown film. And it's always funny, you know,
Speaker 1: justin you are of the two of us, always the
Speaker 1: one that's like I like having time to digest the game.
Speaker 1: I like a rewatch, and I'm always like, let's just
Speaker 1: get the reactions, let's get takes off, you know. And
Speaker 1: I do feel like last night's game was one that
Speaker 1: really I benefited a lot from rewatching, especially the first quarter,
Speaker 1: where I left the first eight minutes of that game
Speaker 1: thinking the Cavs played sloppy, unfocused, didn't play their best ball.
Speaker 1: They played fine, they just weren't making you know, and
Speaker 1: Miami was hitting a couple tough ones. And Miami got
Speaker 1: to a lead because, you know, not on not because
Speaker 1: the Cavs process was so poor, just because Miami was
Speaker 1: playing just a little bit better. So that did kind
Speaker 1: of change the way I felt about the game. I
Speaker 1: left last night kind of feeling, well, they started bad,
Speaker 1: it kind of ended bad. In the middle was good,
Speaker 1: and I kind of left it being like they played
Speaker 1: three really focused quarters and in the fourth they started
Speaker 1: speeding up, taking quick shots instead of working. Yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of looking for the home run ball a little bit
Speaker 1: too much. And that did meaningfully change the way I
Speaker 1: felt about the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. You know, it was a
Speaker 2: travel day for me, so I got my rewatching and
Speaker 2: you know, Pard, I'm glad. I'm glad you are seeing
Speaker 2: the benefits of putting in that extra work here. You're
Speaker 2: you're like, you're like that athlete that just finally started
Speaker 2: lifting weights, and I was like, man, this is really
Speaker 2: helping my game here. Man, that was a disgusted look
Speaker 2: on your face, and you don't have the beard to
Speaker 2: hide it anymore. I had to get that shot in.
Speaker 2: It's always too much fun to bug you, and now
Speaker 2: I'm not in person to do that. But I honestly
Speaker 2: thought that the Cavs came out with a lot of
Speaker 2: focus on the defensive end. I thought they were really
Speaker 2: making hustle plays. I felt that in Game one as well,
Speaker 2: But I thought there was another level to how they
Speaker 2: played defensively for the majority of this game. The slippage
Speaker 2: began when they were up nineteen. I think they thought
Speaker 2: they put Miami away and they started to kind of
Speaker 2: have a few more lapses right. There were miscommunications leaving
Speaker 2: guys open that they didn't intend to. Like, you look
Speaker 2: at some of the Miami's open shots, and ten of
Speaker 2: their wide open shots so far in the series have
Speaker 2: been bam out of bio, which the Cavs are completely
Speaker 2: content to allow him to take wide open threes. He
Speaker 2: is two of ten so far for the series. That's
Speaker 2: been paying off. But I think back to the fourth
Speaker 2: quarter where Darius unnecessarily helped on Damn rolling to the
Speaker 2: hoop and left Haywood high Smith wide open in the corner.
Speaker 2: That's not someone that you want to leave open as
Speaker 2: a shooter. You didn't need to help their Jarrett was
Speaker 2: in the position to do that. There were other breakdowns
Speaker 2: like that, and you know, it really was a perfect
Speaker 2: storm because the Caves in the first half they went
Speaker 2: seven to ten on their wide open threes. In the
Speaker 2: second half, they went two of eight on those wide
Speaker 2: open threes. Miami actually was almost as hot. In the
Speaker 2: first half. They were seven of eleven on their wide
Speaker 2: open threes and they were six to ten in the second.
Speaker 2: So they are shooting wide open threes at just a
Speaker 2: crazy clip in terms of how well they're converting. I
Speaker 2: think you know, you see a team with a losing
Speaker 2: record in the regular season and you may not notice that, Hey,
Speaker 2: Miami was actually the third best team in terms of
Speaker 2: percentage on converting wide open threes in the regular season,
Speaker 2: So you know, they were at forty one percent for
Speaker 2: the regular season. Calves were best in the league at
Speaker 2: forty two percent, so not far off. So they might
Speaker 2: be a little over their skis, but this is a
Speaker 2: team that can convert those looks. And I agree with
Speaker 2: what you said, Carter. I think offensively, the Cavs got
Speaker 2: a little too rush. I thought they were little isolation heavy.
Speaker 2: It did feel like it was a perfect mix of
Speaker 2: circumstances where there were factors within and outside of their
Speaker 2: control down the stretch. I don't think, you know, I
Speaker 2: think they got some bad fifty to fifty calls that
Speaker 2: didn't go their way. It seemed they got a little
Speaker 2: frustrated with that.
Speaker 1: They signed Kenny with the challenge though, oh man, our guy.
Speaker 2: He had two incredibly high SaaS highlights in that game,
Speaker 2: and I enjoyed both of them. They were terrific. But
Speaker 2: you know, there were things that didn't go their way
Speaker 2: from that standpoint. They didn't hit their open threes, and
Speaker 2: then their process got worse, as you mentioned, Carter, with
Speaker 2: you know, more isolation and rushing a little bit when
Speaker 2: it came to getting those threes up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, but this is kind of one of those
Speaker 1: games where it's so nice to have Donovan Mitchell on
Speaker 1: your roster, Like he just I mean, he hit four threes,
Speaker 1: I want to say, in the in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: just really uglyad it up for them, And like that
Speaker 1: is so different to me than the fifty point game
Speaker 1: against Orlando last year, where I mean, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to take anything away from that fifty point game.
Speaker 1: He was amazing in that game, but it was it's
Speaker 1: the difference between you know, break glass in case of emergency, like, hey,
Speaker 1: we need a few superstar plays here, just get us there.
Speaker 1: We need something to get us over the hump, versus
Speaker 1: like building the whole plane out of that. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like we kind of got it both ways in this
Speaker 1: game where you have the second quarter cavalanche where the
Speaker 1: balls humming eleven threes in the quarter. We'll talk about that,
Speaker 1: I'm sure more in depth, but like then you also
Speaker 1: have the all right, we've kind of lost our way.
Speaker 1: We need someone just to rely on to get us
Speaker 1: over the hump the rest of the way, and they
Speaker 1: were able to get that. Like it just feels like
Speaker 1: if you and if the three of us were talking about,
Speaker 1: like what did we want the Donovan Mitchell experience to
Speaker 1: be isn't this game exactly what it is?
Speaker 3: Yeah, shot selection too, I don't feel like he's forcing them.
Speaker 3: He's not disrupting rhythm to try to get to those shots.
Speaker 3: That feels like he found his his He's really picking
Speaker 3: his spots well, not disrupting other things well, understanding when
Speaker 3: he needs to try to come in and do that,
Speaker 3: which I think has been very helpful as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was terrific and you know, the impressive thing
Speaker 2: and this is one of those reasons why you know,
Speaker 2: as a fan you want Donovan to keep shooting. It
Speaker 2: wasn't shooting particularly well going into that fourth quarter. I
Speaker 2: think he was down at like thirty five percent. Basically
Speaker 2: he had hit his threes well to that point, but
Speaker 2: everything else on the interior wasn't really working. And you know,
Speaker 2: he had the nice little running back finishes where he
Speaker 2: brings the ball up over his shoulder and hits the floater.
Speaker 2: He hit the threes just really really came through in
Speaker 2: the clutch, And that's exactly what you want from him, right.
Speaker 2: You want to see that composure, you want to see
Speaker 2: that killer mentality. Calvs are fortunate to have two guards
Speaker 2: at really excel in those situations, and Donovan did a
Speaker 2: terrific job there. It was. You know, it was a
Speaker 2: really productive day for Donovan, Evan, and Darius. I thought
Speaker 2: all three of them were very, very solid in this game.
Speaker 2: Darius didn't have the threes dropping, but still had an
Speaker 2: efficient game. You know, twenty one points on fourteen shots.
Speaker 2: Helped a little bit by the by those late free throws,
Speaker 2: but you know, nine assists to one turnover, that's terrific
Speaker 2: to see. He made sure that it stayed one turnover
Speaker 2: with a ridiculous hustle play to save that ball from
Speaker 2: going out of bounds.
Speaker 1: Now, sure he lost the ball, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know, that's you know, it have been a turnover,
Speaker 2: that's how you save it. But you know, I thought
Speaker 2: he had a very very good game and just some
Speaker 2: of those outside shots can drop. And then Evan Mobley man,
Speaker 2: like we talk about how the Cavs are leaving Bam
Speaker 2: out of bio wide open mobiley, you can't leave them
Speaker 2: open at all from three like he has taking those
Speaker 2: shots incredibly confidently. And it's kind of funny looking at
Speaker 2: how many years we've always heard, you know, BAM's going
Speaker 2: to add a three pointer to his game. This is
Speaker 2: going to be the year. I know I brought it
Speaker 2: up last season, but Mobley had hit more threes last
Speaker 2: year than Bam had in his entire career. And then
Speaker 2: you know, he goes and plays a couple games for
Speaker 2: Team USA and people automatically believe that Bam was going
Speaker 2: to add a three to his game, whereas with Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley we wrote off the possibility of hitting threes. You
Speaker 2: know when the kas would struggle is you know, where
Speaker 2: is the ceiling with him? Offensively? He is just such
Speaker 2: a more dynamic player on that end. And you know,
Speaker 2: we debated handle versus three point show the man at
Speaker 2: it both coming into this year.
Speaker 3: I'm impressed with how confident and well he's taking the puss.
Speaker 3: You see a lot of guys who maybe have you know,
Speaker 3: success in the regular season hitting wide open ones in
Speaker 3: the playoffs hit and you know, they're either left on
Speaker 3: an island or there's a little bit more pressure and
Speaker 3: they're not able to nail those. And he is stepping
Speaker 3: right into him and knocking him down. It's not a
Speaker 3: he's not hitting a high percentage on you know, low
Speaker 3: volume were super easy shot. Like he's going in there
Speaker 3: and he's hit he's hitting good shots and it just
Speaker 3: changes the map completely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think his uh, his offense. I feel like
Speaker 1: we haven't had a great game from Evan yet on
Speaker 1: the offensive side of the floor, you know, not a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of playmaking or or you know, just like
Speaker 1: he hasn't had like that takeover stretch yet, but like
Speaker 1: the floor has been really high. I think in both games,
Speaker 1: even though he only had nine points in Game one,
Speaker 1: I thought he did his job perfectly fine and that
Speaker 1: was just a byproduct of the three. I mean, your
Speaker 1: three three guards score thirty points apiece. Basically, your bigs
Speaker 1: aren't gonna have a lot of time or an opportunity
Speaker 1: to score. So I think he's been great on that end.
Speaker 1: And then defensively, I just think he's been freaking fantastic,
Speaker 1: so many plays where he just suddenly shuts off a
Speaker 1: play from happening altogether, knows when to attack, knows when
Speaker 1: to leave maam and go help. The rim protection has
Speaker 1: been really great. If I have one quibble, it's the
Speaker 1: defensive rebounding hasn't been great.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: They got beat up pretty bad on the offensive glass
Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter, and you know, he only had
Speaker 1: five defensive boards in this game. In the last game
Speaker 1: he had I want to say, like five or six.
Speaker 4: Of any a half last game, right, and no rebound.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had only had four. He only had four,
Speaker 1: So you know, we're not He's not cleaning the glass
Speaker 1: super well. And I don't think think it's because he's
Speaker 1: just getting switched out onto guards every possession. But he's
Speaker 1: also wrestling a bear in Pam out of Bayos, So
Speaker 1: I don't know. Mostly I've been really really happy with
Speaker 1: Evans game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and part of that. Sorry to cut you off there,
Speaker 2: but one thing I wanted to mention that fourth quarter
Speaker 2: was there was a stretch there where Miami was getting
Speaker 2: offensive rebounds, and I thought part of that was just
Speaker 2: a product of being too small. We had Sam Merrill
Speaker 2: at small ford and Isaac Okorro at the four. I
Speaker 2: think Ty Jerome was out there with another guard, and
Speaker 2: we gave up a few opportunities there. There were times
Speaker 2: where you know, Sam and Isaac were both really competing
Speaker 2: to get the defensive rebound and they just weren't large
Speaker 2: enough for it, right, Like Sam would get a hand
Speaker 2: on it and the Miami player was still coming down
Speaker 2: with it just because they were bigger in that stretch.
Speaker 2: I think Miami is a team that you can go
Speaker 2: small against, but I thought that was a kind of
Speaker 2: an extended stretch where they were just a little bit
Speaker 2: too small. Kenny switch things up a little bit, subbing
Speaker 2: Evan out for for Jared and bringing in Max strus
Speaker 2: for for Sam Merrill, but Mobile didn't get the benefit
Speaker 2: from that. And I think there are tweaks that you
Speaker 2: could potentially make here to round that out. But I
Speaker 2: think some of it is the overall ecosystem. Right, it's
Speaker 2: never or it's very rarely when it comes to defense
Speaker 2: rebounding about the one on one matchups, it really is
Speaker 2: a team effort to secure those rebounds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's just a thing worth keeping an eye on.
Speaker 1: Miami hasn't been great on the offensive glass neither game,
Speaker 1: so it's not like a big problem or anything. But
Speaker 1: Miami is also not that good at that, so I
Speaker 1: don't know, just the thing to keep an eye on.
Speaker 3: And then do you think it limits his offense a
Speaker 3: little bit and not getting the defensive so much of
Speaker 3: his offense is bringing the ball up, getting a man
Speaker 3: of going to the bathket and using his length, So I.
Speaker 1: Do think two of his best two of his best
Speaker 1: non three plays where the Coast to Coast plays right.
Speaker 3: So without those rebounds, you know, it's just it's harder
Speaker 3: to get him going and finding that momentum.
Speaker 2: That's a really good point because you know he's really
Speaker 2: expanded his game like that. That goes back to that point,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, the three point shot, the handle,
Speaker 2: he's able to hit, the mid range shot, he's obviously
Speaker 2: terrific at finishing at the rim, and to your point,
Speaker 2: he can get those defensive rebounds and turn that into
Speaker 2: a coast to coast opportunity. When you can score in
Speaker 2: that many different ways, it really opens up opportunities for you.
Speaker 2: It opens up opportunities for him to do his best work,
Speaker 2: just like Zuo Mayi Companion does for this podcast. Because
Speaker 2: only you can do your best work, Zoomi Companion can
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Speaker 2: with Zuomi Companion. One thing that.
Speaker 1: I I was gonna take us, can I take him
Speaker 1: minute to give Sam Merrill some Flowers, Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1: I feel like post All Star Break, I was someone
Speaker 1: who I mean, I don't think I win super aggressive
Speaker 1: with it, but like reading between the lines, I was
Speaker 1: someone who's like with the way the roster changed after
Speaker 1: picking up DeAndre, it's a lot of minutes for Samo
Speaker 1: the three. I don't know about that. I'm worried about
Speaker 1: being a little too small, you know, maybe you know
Speaker 1: I was advocating for more Isaac minutes. This has been
Speaker 1: a unbelievable sam Merril series so far. He is hitting
Speaker 1: his shots, he is doing all the little things. He's
Speaker 1: moving the ball, he's rebounding, he is being left on
Speaker 1: Tyler Hero one on one and doing a great job
Speaker 1: fighting over screens, staying connected, allowing the cabs defensive shell
Speaker 1: to remain in place, like and if there's one thing
Speaker 1: the Cabs have done really well on defense, just haven't
Speaker 1: left their shell for two games, really, and a lot
Speaker 1: of that has to get You have to give a
Speaker 1: lot of credit to the point of attack defenders. And
Speaker 1: if you were to tell me, Kenny's gonna put Sam
Speaker 1: on Hero a lot when he's on the floor, like
Speaker 1: as the primary guy, not a guy that gets switched
Speaker 1: on to him, but that's just his assignment and he'll
Speaker 1: do a good job. Like damn, what a win. And
Speaker 1: Sam gets I think we need to really give him
Speaker 1: his flowers because he's giving them way better playoff minutes
Speaker 1: than I was expecting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, what has your impression been of what
Speaker 2: Sam's done so far in this series?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just another weapon. It's another way to lose
Speaker 3: enough to defense. And you know, having these guys that
Speaker 3: can hang even if they're at like a physical disadvantage
Speaker 3: is so damn helpful. Like I don't want to pivot
Speaker 3: off of Sam, but you know, I think we've seen
Speaker 3: the same thing h Darius, where even if he's got
Speaker 3: a side that the vantage he's playing top, he's saying
Speaker 3: he's doing an assignment, he's not needing as much help
Speaker 3: and and it just allowed them to do so much
Speaker 3: more at your point on not having to leave their shelf,
Speaker 3: but not having to overact and having to overhelp or
Speaker 3: do anything. And you know, we're talking about being small
Speaker 3: on the boards, but they're not feeling them defensive end,
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the funny byproduct of having Sam as the
Speaker 2: primary defender on Tyler hero is. Tyler's kind of tested
Speaker 2: the waters there of can I gain an advantage here?
Speaker 2: And if he wasn't the primary defender, you're bringing in
Speaker 2: whoever Sam is guarding as the screener on that set
Speaker 2: and looking to get a switch there, whereas now it's
Speaker 2: straight up isolation Tyler heroes probing for a bit doesn't
Speaker 2: gain an advantage. They're not bringing in a screener to
Speaker 2: you know, muck things up and confuse things defensively. The
Speaker 2: Calves just managed to burn, you know, ive six seconds
Speaker 2: of a twenty four second shot clock in an isolation
Speaker 2: situation where they haven't had to rotate as well. So
Speaker 2: when you have guys that hold up that well in
Speaker 2: those situations, it makes a big, big difference. And you know,
Speaker 2: we joked about, you know, the the parallels between Sam
Speaker 2: Marril and Duncan Robinson in terms of how they're used offensively,
Speaker 2: how they generate fire drills on the defensive end of
Speaker 2: the floor, a big difference between the two. Sam holds
Speaker 2: up much better defensively when the Cavs attack Duncan Robinson
Speaker 2: when they put him in actions when they're you know,
Speaker 2: running their double drags and things that they do to
Speaker 2: get guys like Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson in those actions.
Speaker 2: There's miscommunications, there's breakdowns, there's failures to navigate the screens.
Speaker 2: That has not been the case with Darius Garland, with Sam, Marilyn,
Speaker 2: some of these other guys on the perimeter, they've done
Speaker 2: a really, really good job of navigating those scenarios.
Speaker 1: Well, last thing I'll say about Sam and we can
Speaker 1: move on to other topics. The other thing that him
Speaker 1: holding up so well on the defensive end of the
Speaker 1: floor has done for them is you don't have to
Speaker 1: take anything off the floor. Like, if Sam wasn't doing
Speaker 1: all those jobs as well as he was doing them,
Speaker 1: I would be sitting here thinking, Okay, do they need
Speaker 1: to give Isaac Moore run to improve the defensive toughness
Speaker 1: of their lineups? And are they is the offense going
Speaker 1: to be able to deal with that drop off in
Speaker 1: shooting from Sam to Isaac? And instead you just don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about it. You could just say we'll
Speaker 1: just play Sam until the defense stops, you know, becomes
Speaker 1: a problem. Yeah, And and like so he just gets
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for being a guy who is
Speaker 1: additive and isn't taking anything off the table for them
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and I think looking at the stats
Speaker 2: so far in this series, I think they're shooting regression
Speaker 2: that's due for both of these teams. I don't think
Speaker 2: the Cavs are going to shoot that well from three
Speaker 2: for an entire series. I don't think Miami's going to
Speaker 2: shoot that well from three for an entire series. Kas
Speaker 2: currently have a one thirty three offensive rating and a
Speaker 2: one to sixteen point five defensive rating. I'd say you
Speaker 2: can almost knock off like seven points from both of
Speaker 2: those numbers just to account for shooting, you know, regression.
Speaker 2: I feel like the defense has been better than the results,
Speaker 2: and the offense has been a little better than the process,
Speaker 2: just with how well they're shooting overall. But you know,
Speaker 2: they've done a really really good job. I feel overall defensively,
Speaker 2: there was that slippage in the fourth quarter, but for
Speaker 2: the most part, I feel really good about how they're
Speaker 2: playing on that end. It's just going to come down
Speaker 2: to cleaning up some of those little things in the margin,
Speaker 2: right whether it's making sure you're securing those defensive rebounds,
Speaker 2: making sure there aren't those miscommunications and you keep your
Speaker 2: foot on the gas when you have, you know, the lead.
Speaker 2: That's gonna be really important because this Miami team never quits.
Speaker 2: I actually thought it was really interesting that Donald Mitchell
Speaker 2: spoke to that about how this is probably good for
Speaker 2: them in terms of the health of the series overall,
Speaker 2: that they had to win the way they did, rather
Speaker 2: than you know, Game two against Orlando last year, which
Speaker 2: was a laugh or just like Game one, and they
Speaker 2: weren't really expecting the punch that they ended up getting
Speaker 2: thrown in Game three. You're going to expect that now
Speaker 2: with the Miami heat, and I think that puts them
Speaker 2: in a better position to go up three to zero
Speaker 2: in the series and learn from their mistakes of last season.
Speaker 1: Not only are they going to expect the CounterPunch, I
Speaker 1: also think they have tape. They have a fourth quarter
Speaker 1: of tape till that and go, okay, guys, this good tape,
Speaker 1: this bad tape, you know, like and there is value
Speaker 1: in that, you know, we always say it autopsy's nice.
Speaker 1: Having a dead body to look at gives you something.
Speaker 1: So if you get to have that without losing, all
Speaker 1: the better, you know, And I'm not saying it's like
Speaker 1: it's awesome that the Cabs didn't have a great fourth
Speaker 1: quarter against Miami. It's obviously you'd rather them just win
Speaker 1: every game by twenty, but like there is value in
Speaker 1: they had to they kind of lost their's way for
Speaker 1: a minute. Yep, And now the staff has something to
Speaker 1: really like, you know, a counterbalance really for what they've
Speaker 1: done so well through two games. I want to ask
Speaker 1: you this, Non because you are a fellow angster. We
Speaker 1: got happy, happy, go lucky lad over there who just
Speaker 1: never worries about anything. How relieved are you that the
Speaker 1: offense has been this good? One thirty seven point five
Speaker 1: offensive rating game one one, twenty eight point seven in
Speaker 1: game two. How relieved are you that against a top
Speaker 1: ten defense, the Cavs are scoring with relative ease.
Speaker 3: Uh, It's incredible because I think we all have a
Speaker 3: lot of scars from two years ago, especially, but even
Speaker 3: Orlando and stuff last year, you know where things got
Speaker 3: bogged down. So there's always that little kind of question
Speaker 3: of the regular season was great, we were a monster,
Speaker 3: but when it starts happening, when you start having to
Speaker 3: bolster on the other side, schemon for you, and when
Speaker 3: you start you know, the bullets start flying it's going
Speaker 3: to happen, and.
Speaker 4: It is so reassuring that we're seeing it.
Speaker 3: I mean, the Guards that has been incredible, you know,
Speaker 3: I still being able to do that in game one
Speaker 3: with absolutely incredible. Darius being this good has been incredible.
Speaker 3: Doubt and finding his moments and still having the.
Speaker 4: Hit of the Superman Cave has been incredible. So it is.
Speaker 3: Reassuring going forward, right I'd love to see them. There's
Speaker 3: just now creative were shooting like fifty percent from left game,
Speaker 3: but do you feel like they're a little bit perimeter
Speaker 3: heavy right now? Like the bigs are are not getting
Speaker 3: ahold And I understand Bam and Wear a tough matchups,
Speaker 3: but even Mobley had but ten shots and six of
Speaker 3: them were three's last game, Like, we are not getting
Speaker 3: into paint a whole lot.
Speaker 2: Do you know Our buddy and former editor in chief
Speaker 2: at Fear the Sword, Conrad brought this to our attention
Speaker 2: in one of our many group chats to discuss the Calves.
Speaker 2: But if you look at the frequency in terms of
Speaker 2: how many shots the Calves took at the Rim, Game
Speaker 2: two against Miami was their lowest of the season. It
Speaker 2: was nine point three percent. Game one was their fourth
Speaker 2: lowest of the season at fourteen point six percent. So
Speaker 2: out of eighty four games, the number one and number
Speaker 2: four lowest frequency games in terms of shots at the
Speaker 2: rim have come in the playoffs. When you look at
Speaker 2: the regular season, the median kind of frequency for the
Speaker 2: calves of rim shots is about so you're getting you know,
Speaker 2: you're You've cut that down to a third, And I
Speaker 2: do feel like, particularly in Game one, I thought they
Speaker 2: did a really good job of getting into the teeth
Speaker 2: of the paint. I thought they were really getting downhill
Speaker 2: at will. Maybe just a lot of those turned into
Speaker 2: kickouts for three pointers as the Miami Heat defense scrambled.
Speaker 2: But I do feel like there are opportunities available, and
Speaker 2: in particular, I feel like there is, you know, some
Speaker 2: low hanging fruit when it comes to getting Jared Allen
Speaker 2: involved offensively, because I feel like when they have he's delivered,
Speaker 2: like he's been efficient in this series. He's been great
Speaker 2: on both ends of the court. I think that they
Speaker 2: could do more to get some easier buckets there because
Speaker 2: there is going to be that shooting regression in this series,
Speaker 2: and one of the ways you can counteract that is
Speaker 2: by getting those high quality shots at the rim that
Speaker 2: they were able to convert all season long at a
Speaker 2: really well good rate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, ideally you want the balance, but like
Speaker 1: there is also it's hard to ask them to get
Speaker 1: to the rim too much when things are going this well,
Speaker 1: you know, when the three point shots are following the
Speaker 1: way they are, and that is I do feel like
Speaker 1: they're generating with the exception of the zone possessions, where
Speaker 1: it is a lot more side to side passing, which
Speaker 1: you know, more power to them. I don't think Miami
Speaker 1: can play zone against this team consistently. I think the
Speaker 1: shooting talent's just too high. But I think they are
Speaker 1: getting downhill enough that I'm not like, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like they're playing Celtics ball here, I guess is the
Speaker 1: crux of the of the tree I'm marking up. So
Speaker 1: it's like, overall, I'm not that worried about the shot profile.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that's just going to even
Speaker 1: out as Miami starts saying we got to stop the threes,
Speaker 1: like we gotta do whatever we can, and then you know,
Speaker 1: then the rumble downhill is going to start coming for
Speaker 1: the for the team, and that's I don't actually care
Speaker 1: how we get to our one thirty offensive rating as
Speaker 1: long as it's coming with a team's trying to take
Speaker 1: something away, so they do the other things so well
Speaker 1: that they try to take that away and then open
Speaker 1: up the thing that they were trying to take away
Speaker 1: in the first place.
Speaker 2: Like, for me, do you agree with what I said
Speaker 2: though about getting Jared more involved? Because I don't feel
Speaker 2: like Miami's doing anything to take him away, Like mam
Speaker 2: is getting the mobile assignment, whether it's kellel Ware or
Speaker 2: you know, Andrew Wiggins, that's power forward. I feel like
Speaker 2: you can create an advantage there. We're just not even
Speaker 2: probing to find out if we can create one. In
Speaker 2: my opinion, I just.
Speaker 1: I've always felt like Jared is a symptomatic thing, you know,
Speaker 1: like like he just gets his stuff within the flow,
Speaker 1: and like I think that if things are bogging down,
Speaker 1: they should try to do that. But if things aren't
Speaker 1: bogging down, I just don't see a ton of need
Speaker 1: to change what they're doing. I do wonder if kellel
Speaker 1: Ware is gonna get taken out of the series soon.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's why we're not doing it. We're trying to
Speaker 2: keep him on the court.
Speaker 1: I just you know, he's uh, And I wonder if
Speaker 1: that all change things a little bit, where you know,
Speaker 1: Bam as a roamer does make it a little harder
Speaker 1: for the two bigs to just operate with impunity. So like,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, I'm just not that pressed.
Speaker 1: And if I see more quarters like in game two
Speaker 1: where it was like twenty five points, twenty four points,
Speaker 1: twenty eight points, okay, sure let's start tweaking things, but
Speaker 1: for now I'm generally okay with it.
Speaker 2: Fun fact, no break the tie here. Who's your favorite child?
Speaker 2: Carter and myself? Where do you fall in the sound debate?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I kind of set this up with
Speaker 3: the other shot fifty percent, so it teams are crazy
Speaker 3: to be like they were they taking too many threes.
Speaker 3: But I do think when things got bogged down court
Speaker 3: your point, like they should be opening up other things.
Speaker 4: Don't think they were going to the other things.
Speaker 3: I think they kind of got fair doc, you know,
Speaker 3: in that same rhythm where they couldn't break out of that.
Speaker 3: So that's what I want to see, the ability to
Speaker 3: pivot when it stops working, you know, to your point,
Speaker 3: like the shooting Russian is going to happen.
Speaker 4: Should that open things up? Yeah, but they still have
Speaker 4: to do it, They still have to pivot.
Speaker 1: And I said this post came last night of just
Speaker 1: like I do think your brain kind of breaks when
Speaker 1: you hit eleven threes in the quarter and you kind
Speaker 1: of forget how to do any other way because it
Speaker 1: feels so good to play that way that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's hard when you do pull off playing
Speaker 1: that style to kind of rEFInd your footing. So it's
Speaker 1: fair and I think, like always, you represent a healthy
Speaker 1: middle of the two arguments. I do want to ask, yeah,
Speaker 1: real quick, what do you think the Cavs offensive rating
Speaker 1: was in the second quarter?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: One sixty five, Jeff, that was insane.
Speaker 1: One seventy nine point.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. We both went low wooing of ninety.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool that the Cavs have, you know, the
Speaker 2: number one and number two highest you know, scoring quarters
Speaker 2: from from a three point perspective. And you know, do
Speaker 2: you think at some point we got two really good
Speaker 2: Kenny Atkinson sideline moments on camera? Do you think during
Speaker 2: the second quarter there was one that was missed where
Speaker 2: he turned and looked at Tamari Carroll and was like, remember, way.
Speaker 1: More fun on this side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's much much more fun when this is
Speaker 2: not happening to us. Do you do you guys feel
Speaker 2: like that happened?
Speaker 4: We need a Kenny cam game three.
Speaker 3: We just need like just like the picture of the
Speaker 3: picture kind of thing, like just Teddy the whole time.
Speaker 2: I love the idea of a Kenny Cam. I need
Speaker 2: picture in picture the entire time that I'm a great proposal.
Speaker 2: We absolutely need to do that. I did find it
Speaker 2: to be interesting. One of the things we talked about
Speaker 2: pregame was do the Cavs emphasize getting out of transition
Speaker 2: a little more? Do they push the pace after stops?
Speaker 2: And I felt like they certainly did in this game.
Speaker 2: Game two was played seven possessions faster than Game one.
Speaker 2: Was up to ninety four point five. In terms of
Speaker 2: blistering ninety four, you know, it was it was still
Speaker 2: you don't playoff basketball, but quicker.
Speaker 1: Than twenty percent increase and there's still like thirty percent
Speaker 1: lower than regular season league average.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I looked into it, I was like, it
Speaker 2: was the fourth quarter considerably slower. Not really, it was
Speaker 2: a ninety two pace you expected to slow down a
Speaker 2: little bit overall, ninety four for the first half, ninety
Speaker 2: five for the second half, so it was a pretty
Speaker 2: you know, consistent pace throughout. But I did find that
Speaker 2: to be interesting that the Cats were getting out in transition.
Speaker 2: They were pushing. Obviously, you know those transition threes that
Speaker 2: lunatics like Max Strews, Sam Marril and Ti Jerome take
Speaker 2: are are going to help boost those numbers. But I
Speaker 2: do think that it's important because you want to find
Speaker 2: ways to combat the variance game. With Miami, I think
Speaker 2: there is a lot of intention from their side to
Speaker 2: slow things down, to limit the number of possessions, because
Speaker 2: if both teams are getting you know, one hundred and
Speaker 2: ten possessions, if that's what the games played at, you're
Speaker 2: not going to be susceptible to variants there. You're not
Speaker 2: going to be able to score as consistently as the
Speaker 2: Cavs are. There's just too many opportunities for you to
Speaker 2: make mistakes. Is Miami, I think that this is done
Speaker 2: with intent, and when we talk about pace, it really
Speaker 2: does take two to tango.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting Miami is going to try to drag
Speaker 1: things down. I do think, you know, the full court
Speaker 1: pressure from both teams is also tracking things down, you know,
Speaker 1: Palla Larson picking up Tie Jerome ninety four feet and
Speaker 1: by the way, who had Ti Jerome gets trapped at
Speaker 1: half court on their bingo card?
Speaker 2: You know, the fourth quarter in the second half just
Speaker 2: occupied so much of my brain. I had forgot about
Speaker 2: that until the rewatch. What a sign of respect. That
Speaker 2: is something that Peyton Pritchard is not going to see
Speaker 2: in the playoffs where you get hard trapped and blitz
Speaker 2: at half court. They're just throwing bodies and bodies and
Speaker 2: bodies of Ti Jerome to get it out of his hands.
Speaker 2: That is nuts on a team with Darius Garland and
Speaker 2: Donovan Mitchell the guard to that faces that is the
Speaker 2: guy coming in off the bench. That's unbelievable. But it
Speaker 2: just goes to show you how much Miami fears what
Speaker 2: he can do. And a lot of those minutes are
Speaker 2: coming with those second unit lineups right where Miami doesn't
Speaker 2: feel as confident with who they have on the floor. Defensively,
Speaker 2: it makes sense that they basically take a kitchen sink
Speaker 2: approach to stop another Ti Cavalanche.
Speaker 1: Well, Ty had a bad game, which is the funny thing.
Speaker 1: You know, it goes two of eight shorts, a bunch
Speaker 1: of floaters, but still and it's just plus ten just
Speaker 1: because of his general vibe, man in general, tiness, general times.
Speaker 1: You know, had a much better game off the bench.
Speaker 1: Our boy, DeAndre Hunter a big part of that second
Speaker 1: quarter of Cavalanche. Yeah, what do you think about him?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's nice having you know, he and Maxley.
Speaker 3: I think of the two guys Well and Sam who
Speaker 3: just pull immediately and don't need a lot of space
Speaker 3: to do it. And I think that's that just opens
Speaker 3: up so much. And you've got guys who aren't scared
Speaker 3: to take you one inch of space and try to
Speaker 3: get a shot up. And I think that having another
Speaker 3: one guy his side especially that can help space out
Speaker 3: and do that just changes.
Speaker 4: They're just impossible to guard, like just impossible.
Speaker 2: To do anything. Yeah, it's I was happy to see
Speaker 2: DeAndre hit those shots. How do you guys feel about
Speaker 2: how he's played defensively? Because I haven't felt him in
Speaker 2: a big way defensively. Maybe you know some of that
Speaker 2: is Miami doesn't really have perimeter initiators like Andrew Wiggins
Speaker 2: is looking to create for himself, and even at that,
Speaker 2: there's some limits to what he can do. But then
Speaker 2: I looked at their.
Speaker 1: Numbers have lined up that much either, Yeah, And then I.
Speaker 2: Looked at the numbers. The Cavs have a ninety two,
Speaker 2: you know, defensive rating. With DeAndrea on the floor, it's
Speaker 2: one of the biggest on off, you know, in the
Speaker 2: positive differentials on the team. I just hadn't felt it
Speaker 2: a whole lot. But maybe this is me picking nets right,
Speaker 2: But I think him hitting shots offensively and getting on
Speaker 2: track and playing with the confidence he did it was
Speaker 2: a really nice sign to see. And our guy Isaac
Speaker 2: hit is only three of the night as well, so
Speaker 2: that was also a good sign.
Speaker 1: I thought. I think DeAndre has been pretty good physically.
Speaker 1: He's been fighting when he gets switches, fighting for boards.
Speaker 1: He had one where he was kind of hand fighting
Speaker 1: with khlaue Ware and got the ball on a rebound.
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't say I feel like he's been,
Speaker 1: you know, a top six, top seven guy for them,
Speaker 1: but like just goes to speak to the luxuries of
Speaker 1: this roster where DeAndre has just been okay. He wasn't
Speaker 1: good in game one, I guess, but even in Game
Speaker 1: two he was just okay. But like was still meaningfully
Speaker 1: part of swinging the game. So I don't know, he
Speaker 1: hasn't had his like, he hasn't had his playoff moment
Speaker 1: yet by any means, But like the fact that it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter is pretty nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we talked about whether or not
Speaker 2: we'd see more of those kind of end of bench guys.
Speaker 2: You didn't see a whole lot more of them. DeAndre
Speaker 2: obviously got a little more burn than he had in
Speaker 2: Game one. I was happy to see o'coro hit his
Speaker 2: only three of the game. But it's funny, it almost
Speaker 2: felt like a flip from Game one where I thought
Speaker 2: korl was doing a lot of little things. In Game one,
Speaker 2: I thought his defense was very strong. It was not
Speaker 2: strong in Game two.
Speaker 1: Davian cooked him like three times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was a big part of that Miami run.
Speaker 2: And you know, Daveon Mitchell is not someone that normally
Speaker 2: has that kind of juice off the bounce. I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not used to seeing Isaac kind of get caught
Speaker 2: in those spots. I think he can certainly play better,
Speaker 2: but it was just one.
Speaker 1: Of those so far in the series, by the way,
Speaker 1: I did not expect to be sick Mitchell, like, I
Speaker 1: just did not well, I was going to the series.
Speaker 4: I was not circling him like I'm gonna be mad
Speaker 4: at that guy for a couple of games, Like this
Speaker 4: is just he's frustrating. He's been it's been great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just stood out to me because I think
Speaker 2: back to even you know, previous playoff games. You know,
Speaker 2: basically the struggles that Isaac has had in the playoffs
Speaker 2: never really come on the defensive end. Like he's been
Speaker 2: really good in that Knick series. He gave them good
Speaker 2: minutes on that end against Orlando and Boston, He's given
Speaker 2: them good minutes on that end. So for him to
Speaker 2: have you know, a couple possessions where he wasn't on
Speaker 2: and he was a step slow really stood out because
Speaker 2: that that was a decent part of that Miami run, right,
Speaker 2: They were getting some pretty good looks in the lineup.
Speaker 2: Where where was he and Donovan out there? So just
Speaker 2: one of those things that I wanted to note. One
Speaker 2: of the things Zach Lolatch you brought up on his
Speaker 2: podcast is that he'd like to see a little bit
Speaker 2: more time for the cast starters together when it comes
Speaker 2: to the playoffs. I looked into it on how often
Speaker 2: those guys play together. In terms of the core four.
Speaker 2: In the regular season, it's fourteen minutes per game, which
Speaker 2: is nuts that that's where it's at. In the playoffs,
Speaker 2: it's up to seventeen. Miami doesn't really have, you know,
Speaker 2: a core lineup in the same way, but I think
Speaker 2: the closest thing to it would be the Bam hero
Speaker 2: In Wiggins combo. They're playing about twenty one minutes per game,
Speaker 2: so about four minutes per game more than the Cavs
Speaker 2: core four. Do you agree with that assessment? Where do
Speaker 2: you guys kind of come out in terms of the
Speaker 2: minute load for the Cavs most important players.
Speaker 1: I just kind of feel like they've got to lose
Speaker 1: minutes more. They've got to have lineups that aren't working
Speaker 1: consistently before I'm gonna ask Kenny to change anything. You know,
Speaker 1: I think if you started the playoffs, I would have said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd like to see them go down to nine just
Speaker 1: to make sure everyone gets these reps. But like they're
Speaker 1: getting so like, okay, you could take Isaac and Dean
Speaker 1: sixteen minutes, reapportion those to the core, give them more run.
Speaker 1: I thought Dean was awesome defensively in his six minutes,
Speaker 1: just wrestling bam Atibaio every position up and down the floor,
Speaker 1: you know, just making heady plays. I think Isaac needs
Speaker 1: that run from a confidence perspective. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you could do that. Those are your two lowest minute guys.
Speaker 1: Sixteen minutes isn't very much. You just take those shifts,
Speaker 1: reapportion them to the starters, and you know, still no
Speaker 1: one's going to be much higher than thirty five. But like,
Speaker 1: is it worth it right now?
Speaker 3: I say no, Yeah, And what you're learning about the
Speaker 3: other guys is valuable, right, Like, I don't know what
Speaker 3: more minutes from the starters out the series was in trouble,
Speaker 3: Like if we were we're you know, if we're struggling
Speaker 3: and down, yeah, I'd be calling for it. But right
Speaker 3: now we're learning more about you know, we just talked
Speaker 3: about Sam for a while, Like that's great to learn.
Speaker 3: We need to see that, we need to understand.
Speaker 4: What's happening when we put those guys in.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm not worried about it now, but it's
Speaker 3: to my earlier point, like you have to see you
Speaker 3: want them to do it when it's time to do
Speaker 3: it to make that pivot, like if we are in trouble, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that's the lever hole.
Speaker 2: But right now about it, Yeah, and you know, breaking
Speaker 2: those numbers down just a little further, thirteen of those
Speaker 2: minutes per game are coming with Max Trus three minutes
Speaker 2: per game with DeAndre Hunter as kind of the fifth
Speaker 2: guy between the core four. Those minutes have come to
Speaker 2: close out first half so far that that seems to
Speaker 2: be the rotation Kenny's using. I'd be interested to see,
Speaker 2: you know, if DeAndre can get some run with those
Speaker 2: guys in you know, the second half at all, if
Speaker 2: that is a potential closing lineup. That hasn't been the
Speaker 2: way that he's gone with it. But for the most part,
Speaker 2: I'm fine with it. Right Like, let's not where the
Speaker 2: guys out this early in the playoffs. If there's ways
Speaker 2: that you can still come to keep their minutes down
Speaker 2: and manage things, that's important because you never know when
Speaker 2: a freak play can happen, right like Darius to look like,
Speaker 2: with two minutes to go, after blowing a defensive assignment,
Speaker 2: tried to respond with the closeout and I think he
Speaker 2: may have stepped on a fans foot on the sideline.
Speaker 2: It was limping pretty hard to end the game. You
Speaker 2: want to avoid those situations, right, Like, that's the flip
Speaker 2: side of what we were saying. We're happy that they
Speaker 2: did face the test and they get some film of
Speaker 2: things not going well. You having those guys out there
Speaker 2: laden games opens up the possibility that something like that
Speaker 2: can happen. So you know, it's obviously a good thing
Speaker 2: that there's two games or two days off between these games.
Speaker 2: Hopefully you know, everything's fine with Darius. But for the
Speaker 2: most part, I'm pretty okay with how the Core four
Speaker 2: has been deployed because I just don't think there's been
Speaker 2: a need to kind of crank up into that twenty
Speaker 2: minute per game range.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very very good.
Speaker 2: That's uh.
Speaker 1: We've already seen Spolster blink and that was the only
Speaker 1: other thing I really wanted to hit on was we
Speaker 1: saw Spolster make adjustments right away. He takes Alec Burks
Speaker 1: out of the rotation who started game one, takes Kyle
Speaker 1: Anderson out of the rotation, plays Jovich and Larsen. Any
Speaker 1: thoughts on those moves on whether they I think I
Speaker 1: think they're probably in that positive I think Yovich gave
Speaker 1: them very good minutes, even though he didn't shoot well
Speaker 1: Like it does feel like Spolster really wanted this one
Speaker 1: right away. He took big swings immediately, and I.
Speaker 2: Think those swings are here to say. I think that's
Speaker 2: probably Miami's best foot forward. But you know, going back
Speaker 2: to what you said, we have film now of Miami's adjustment.
Speaker 2: We have we know what it looks like when it's
Speaker 2: working well, and it wasn't enough to get the win, Like,
Speaker 2: I think that really bodes well for the ability to
Speaker 2: wrap this up in short order. Right Like, I feel
Speaker 2: pretty good going into Game three. I think that's going
Speaker 2: to be, you know, the most important game of the
Speaker 2: Series's game threes often are I think if there's one
Speaker 2: that Miami would get, I kind of expect it to
Speaker 2: be for because that's kind of the more traditional gentleman suite.
Speaker 2: But you know, if the Cavs can take care of
Speaker 2: business in Game three in Miami, an early game, we
Speaker 2: know how the Cavs struggling in afternoon games so far
Speaker 2: this season, that that would be impressive, man, Because yes,
Speaker 2: this team had a losing record for the year, but
Speaker 2: they did finish the year strong. They had a lot
Speaker 2: of weird things that went on in terms of the
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler situation. And I think that this unit working
Speaker 2: as a collective is a little better than the record,
Speaker 2: And we talked about it going in right. The reason
Speaker 2: we wanted the Miami Heat versus Orlando, Atlanta or Chicago
Speaker 2: was because we felt that they were going to test
Speaker 2: them right. We felt that this is a team that
Speaker 2: has a ton of playoff experience. We have a ton
Speaker 2: of respect for Eric Spolstra. I believe that Bammutabio is
Speaker 2: probably the best best big man defender that we're going
Speaker 2: to see in the playoffs. Kristaps Porzingis might bother guys
Speaker 2: a little more because of his length, but BAM's the
Speaker 2: better overall defender. I think that there there's a lot
Speaker 2: of valuable lessons that we can learn from this series,
Speaker 2: even though Miami is at a talent deficit.
Speaker 1: I gotta say I said this to you at dinner
Speaker 1: before the game that I thought Miami's best shot at
Speaker 1: us was last night.
Speaker 2: You know it's JUSO game to.
Speaker 1: Game two, Spo. It's the the first set of like, okay,
Speaker 1: they actually had some tape to grind. Did two days off.
Speaker 1: They had a Cavs team who probably felt like gods
Speaker 1: after Game one and and in a weird game where
Speaker 1: you have three players take an unusual percentage of your shots,
Speaker 1: like could be a weird rhythm thing, and and the
Speaker 1: Calves came out in you know, one by nine, and like,
Speaker 1: obviously there's always the game four letdown. But in terms
Speaker 1: of the competitive portion of the series, I do think
Speaker 1: the Calves are in really really good shape. I told
Speaker 1: you before at dinner, it was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think we might lose this one, you know, And
Speaker 1: I still felt good about Calves in five even if
Speaker 1: they did lose this one. But after passing that test,
Speaker 1: I do think I'm I'm ready to commit Calves in four.
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you. We didn't get a serious
Speaker 2: prediction from you. Obviously, this becomes a little easier when
Speaker 2: Calves have half of the wins they need to win
Speaker 2: this series. Or where are you at, how do you
Speaker 2: think these games in Miami are going to go?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do Calves in four. I think, you know,
Speaker 3: to your point, they've made some moves. It was incremental
Speaker 3: improvement for them, but it wasn't a solved.
Speaker 4: It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't something that is going to causes major issues
Speaker 3: moving forward. You know, it might incremental anything to happen
Speaker 3: in the game, but I think Cavs.
Speaker 2: Is more Hell yeah, I absolutely love to see it.
Speaker 2: We will be going live postgame after Game three in Miami.
Speaker 2: Really really excited to see how the Calves deal with
Speaker 2: you know, whatever adjustments Miami still has in the bag.
Speaker 2: Right We know that they are a proud team. They're
Speaker 2: going to play with desperation. Can the Calves come out
Speaker 2: expecting that and do what needs to be done to
Speaker 2: take a commanding three to zero series lead. We will
Speaker 2: find out. Big thanks to everyone tuning in live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: I know we're going up against the NFL Draft, so
Speaker 2: a little bit of a tough situation, but you know,
Speaker 2: mobily defensive Player of the Year. We had to do it.
Speaker 2: We had to let them know, so big thanks to
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Speaker 2: next time, go Calves skiing sha