1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you hey there, Text Stuff listeners, This 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: is Jonathan Strickland and I have got a request for 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: all of you. Now, Chris and I have decided that 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: we're going to try and experiment. We're doing our first 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: crowd sourced episode of tech Stuff and we want to 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: know what your pick is for the worst video game 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: of all time. Now, nominations you can. You can make 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: one nomination. You nominate one game, and you need to 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: tell us the name of the game and the platform 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: it was on. And it could be any platform. It 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: could be an arcade game, it could be a PC, Mac, Xbox, 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: PS three, Nintendo handheld console. It can be web based 14 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: if you like. But just you let us know what 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: the platform is so we can make sure we count 16 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: that as the votes. So you can nominate your game 17 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: either through email, which is tech Stuff at how stuff 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: works dot com, or you can nominate through Twitter or Facebook. 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: And we're gonna put a cut off date on this. 20 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: I want to have the episode go up by the 21 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: end of September of eleven. So let's say you need 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: to get your nominations in by September eleven, So if 23 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: you get those nominations into us, we will make sure 24 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: we include those in the process, and we will have 25 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: an episode where we give you the worst video games 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: of all time based upon the votes of our listeners. 27 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot. Can't wait to hear from you. Get 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how stuff 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello again, everyone, Welcome to tech stuff. 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: My name is Chris Poulette and I'm an editor at 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Sitting across from me, as 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: usual is senior writer Jonathan Strickland Butterfly in the Sky 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: I can go twice as high. Nice. Thank you. You know, 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: originally we were talking about the possibility of doing an 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: e books podcast, and then we realized we've done any 36 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: books podcast, but we really haven't talked about a lot 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: of the developments in publishing since then. That's right, and uh, 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: and we had some listeners on Google Plus. So here's 39 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: a little note from Google Plus. And John and Paul 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: very biblical fellows. I suppose us are very beatle fellows. 41 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: Perhaps so, but both John and Paul had asked that 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: we talked about the books and e publishing. John was 43 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: very insistent by the way, John, we do have an 44 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: episode on the books, which I had completely forgotten about. Um, 45 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: I believe Christi as well. And just this morning as 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: I was as I was looking at my notes, I realized, 47 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this sounds really familiar, and sure enough 48 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: we have done one. But yeah, we wanted to talk 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: about sort of the back end, not from the technological 50 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: perspective so much as from sort of a business perspective 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: about publishing, what publishers do, and how all that's starting 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: to change in the e book era. Yeah, so I 53 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: guess first we should just start talking about what publishers do. Okay, Yeah, 54 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: that that's actually a good question, especially because a lot 55 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: of the discussions I've read recently. Uh. And when I 56 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: say recently, I would guess probably. I think I'm thinking 57 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: about probably the last year, because the books have become 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: a lot more popular. Uh. You see uh news reports 59 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: from Amazon that they are out selling paperbacks. Now, I 60 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: think it was like for every one paperbacks Amazon sold, 61 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,839 Speaker 1: they'd sell a hundred and fifteen e books. So it's 62 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: already matched and outpaced the Dead Tree version of of books. Yep. 63 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: But the thing is a lot of in a lot 64 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: of cases, the electronic version of the book costs close to, 65 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: if not as much as, are in some cases more 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: than um the price of a paper book or p 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: book as I like to call them. UM, And people go, 68 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: what the heck is going on here? If this is 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: just bits and bites, it doesn't take up any floor space, 70 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: you don't have to design a special cover for it. Um. 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: You know, what are the publishers doing? What is the 72 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: point of this? And then you you have to realize 73 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: that they actually do quite a bit. So let's let's 74 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: look at it from let's let's take electronic publishing out 75 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: of the picture right now and just talk about publishers 76 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: and what they do from a traditional standpoint. So traditionally, 77 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: what a publisher would do is you have you have 78 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: your authors. These are the people who are creating work 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: right there. Then you've got editors who are editing the work, 80 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: making sure it it's uh worthy of publication. Now the 81 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: publishers the the entity that takes that work and produces 82 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: it in a mass production uh kind of way. And 83 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: then so that they're into production, they're into distribution, and 84 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: that they find buyers that buy up uh several units 85 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: of books all at once. So bookstores really is what 86 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Publishers look for bookstores outlets to 87 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: sell these So the publishers customers are really bookstores. They're 88 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: not really readers like you and I aren't. Aren't a 89 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: typical customer of a publisher, but rather a Barnes and 90 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: Noble or until recently, a Borders would be a customer 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: of a publisher. Right. So, Uh, the publisher's job is 92 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: to create, to to produce the physical copies of this work, 93 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: to send it to the various or actually sell it 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: to the various bookstores out there vendors out there, um 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: for a price that's usually about half of what the 96 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: list prices for the book. Although your min onle age 97 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: may vary. It's going to depend on a lot of conditions. 98 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: So let's say like the price that's actually on the 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: cover of the book. We're oversimplifying here, but in general, 100 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: the wholesale price that the publisher sells to the bookstore 101 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: is about that and then uh, a certain percentage of 102 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: that goes to overhead, some of it goes to uh 103 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: covering the cost of paying the advance to the author. 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: And also you have to keep in mind that bookstores 105 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: don't sell every single copy of every book, right, So 106 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: occasionally bookstores have to send back copies of books they 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: don't sell to the publisher um, in order to make 108 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: up room for new books. So that means that not 109 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: everything a publisher sends out is actually gonna get sold. 110 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: Some of it's gonna come back. So there are a 111 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: lot of costs here, and also it publishers other job 112 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: is to market the authors, to get the word out 113 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: about authors, and to drive up interest about authors. So 114 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: that's one of the things publishers theoretically will do for 115 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: their for the people who write for them in a way. 116 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: In that way, I would say, um, when you said 117 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: a few minutes ago that that the uh reader is 118 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: not the end customer the publisher, I would say that's 119 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: that's mostly the case, but in in some ways, I mean, 120 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: it is their responsibility to do a lot of the 121 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: marketing work, and so you know that, Yeah, they are 122 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: in touch with the reader and they do that as 123 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: a small portion of that, but they're really trying to 124 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: help the bookstore sell books so that both the bookstore 125 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: and the publisher went out and you can buy the books. 126 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: You can buy books directly from the publisher, but in general, 127 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: that tends to be a very small number of sales 128 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: compared to book sales through stores. And so you also 129 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: have another responsibility of publishers which is kind of interesting, 130 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: and this is an important one that is going to 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: be have a pretty big impact with the electronic publishing 132 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: UH era as well, and that is that publishers are 133 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: responsible for finding new talent. Right. That's kind of like 134 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: the music industry when you think of like a music 135 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: label going out and look, going to local venues and 136 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: scouting out bands and saying, you know, this band actually 137 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: has some promise, and they might not make it big 138 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: for an album or two, but I really see something 139 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: in them. Publishers do the same thing with authors. Now, 140 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: when an author writes a book UH the author generally 141 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: gets an advance on that book, and that advance is 142 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: a royalties advance. It's it's actually counted against whatever royalties 143 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: that author would make through book sales. Well, a lot 144 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: of authors, especially first time authors, will not make that 145 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: money back through book sales. They just aren't well known enough, 146 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: so they won't get enough books sold to pay off 147 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: that advance. So a lot of publishers are essentially paying 148 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: authors at a loss um lots of new authors at 149 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: a loss, but they're doing it by their betting. What 150 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: they're betting is that some of those authors are going 151 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: to make it to the big time, and those authors 152 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: are going to sell lots and lots and lots of books, 153 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: and that will help offset the cost of paying all 154 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: these other low level authors who may not go anywhere 155 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: that advance. So in a way, publishers are responsible for 156 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: encouraging and and sustaining authors who are trying to really 157 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: make it in the publishing world and trying to actually 158 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: become published authors. UH. Without them, then you would have 159 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, you wouldn't have that that incentive really for 160 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: authors to try and create. So when you think about 161 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: things like, oh, well, Stephen king Man, he gets so 162 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: much money for a book, you know, you could have 163 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: some envy there. Perhaps you might question whether or not 164 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: it's the work he does is worth the amount of 165 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: money he makes. But at the same time, because Stephen 166 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: king novels sell so well, that's part of what funds 167 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: the publisher to uh, to encourage other authors to write. 168 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of it's a really big ecosystem 169 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: and it's actually pretty complex. I mean, The actual complexity 170 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: of how much money comes back to the publisher and 171 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: where that money goes is probably too complex for the 172 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: purposes of this podcast, but I thought that it was 173 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: important that we talked about that, and then we talked 174 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: about how E publishing is kind of shaking things up 175 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: a bit more than a bit in some cases. Well, 176 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: you talked about the music industry and how how things 177 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: have changed significantly, how the the music industry has been 178 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: nervous because, uh, you know, for one, on on the 179 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: one hand, they're concerned about things like piracy, but they're 180 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: also concerned because um, people are able to create their 181 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: own home studios and record their own music and post 182 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: it for sale on their own website because they don't 183 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: have to worry about, um, the costs of pressing c 184 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: d s or vinyl anymore, although a lot of them do. UM. 185 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, the distribution is less of an 186 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: issue now because you know, once the marketing has gone 187 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: out online, Uh, rather than having to put up posters 188 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: and stores and do you know, uh different events and 189 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: things like that. You know, those are important, but uh, 190 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: a lot of bands can do a lot of that 191 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: work themselves, and so you know, this has already been 192 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: going on in the music industry. But um, you know, 193 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 1: this hasn't been so much of an issue for publishers 194 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: until just recently. Um, you know, and I didn't I 195 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: don't think we even touched on this when we talked 196 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: about e readers before. I don't even think about the 197 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: e books world going back that far. But it does 198 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: go back to around one UM when Michael Hart started 199 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: Project Guttenberg. And uh, you know, they the first person 200 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: who got an I S b N. That's an international 201 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: standard book number. It's a unique number assigned to every book. 202 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Um was Kim blagg um around So these some people 203 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: have been publishing electronically for a while. I mean Random 204 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: House and HarperCollins, who are too big, Uh, regular publishers, 205 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: P E and E. Um. You know, they were starting 206 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: to sell digital in two thousand two. Um, and that 207 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: was all before the Kindle hit in two thousand seven. 208 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: Well yeah, and if you think about it, you know, 209 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: there are a lot of computers you would buy that 210 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: would come with a n Incard c D. Yeah. Well 211 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: that's that's a digital encyclopedia. Yes, you know, that's you know, 212 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: just because it comes on a solid form of medium 213 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: media rather that that that doesn't mean that it's not digital. 214 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: It is digital. It's just that it's digital store and 215 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: on a disk. Well, the the e publishing world is 216 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: is starting to shake up now. I mean it's no 217 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: secret that publishing has been having problems in the last 218 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: few years anyway, especially with the economic downturn. UM. I've 219 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: read that the closing of Borders stores here in the 220 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: United States. UM, that's going to create problems for traditional 221 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: publishing too, because they can no longer count on the 222 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: sales to come from the store. It's UM, if you're 223 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with this, the situation here, UM Barnes and Noble 224 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: and Borders, and you know some of the other major 225 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: public UM sorry booksellers like Books a Million, UM basically 226 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: were UM credited with, I hate to say credited with 227 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: them the closing of a lot of local bookshops across 228 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: the United States over the past what would you say, 229 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: probably twenty years or so. I think something like like 230 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: the I had the number in front of me at 231 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: one point, but it was, you know, the the number 232 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: of of independent little bookstores had decreased dramatically, like by 233 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: more than fifty percent, because partially at least due to 234 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: these these big, big bookstores that could just take away 235 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: their business. Yeah. I mean there's some that are big enough, 236 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: people like Powells in Portland, Oregon, and the Strand up 237 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: in the New York City area, UM that are that 238 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: are big enough to hold their own. But a lot 239 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: of the smaller stores had had dropped out of the 240 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: the uh picture there for a while. Yeah, I've got 241 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: the number now. So according to a an article in 242 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: the New Yorker, UM, actually, the American Booksellers Association said 243 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: the number of independent booksellers declined from three thousand, two 244 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: hundred fifty to fourteen hundred since n Okay. Then, so 245 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: that's more than And I read an article about the 246 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: closing of borders that said that publishers are going to 247 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: have to cut their print runs because they no longer 248 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: have border stores to help them distribute their books to readers. Um. 249 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: And that's causing more turmoil. And now with the popularity 250 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: of e readers surging and the ability of people to 251 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: do things to publish on their own, this is going 252 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: to to cause things to shake up even further. And 253 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: um lion the new version of the Apple operating system, 254 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: some of you've written in that you want to a 255 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: podcast on it. We need to talk about the possibility 256 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: of doing that and possibly Windows eight. The Lion offers 257 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: people the ability to publish the pub documents um you know, 258 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: from different Lion documents, so you know it's not it's 259 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: built into the operating system. I wouldn't be surprised to 260 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: see that coming to other operating systems to in the future, 261 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: which just makes it that much easier to publish your 262 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: own e books, which can create another problem that we'll 263 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: get into in a little bit. But before we do that, 264 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little more about some of 265 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: the other problems that the publishing industry faces, which is 266 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: that you've got some major, major companies that have not 267 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: traditionally been publishers getting into the publishing game. And one 268 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: of the biggest is Amazon. So you know Amazon and 269 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: e readers that those two terms go very well together 270 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: because we are all familiar with the Amazon Kindle, which 271 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: revolutionized the electronic publishing industry. Yeah, there were a couple 272 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: of e book readers before UM. I first became acquainted 273 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: with the Rocket e book and saw book back around UM, 274 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: but they were really expensive and there just weren't a 275 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: lot of books at the time, right, Amazon's plan was 276 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: to create this electronic book reader, and also the company 277 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: was incredibly intelligent in that they created apps for various 278 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: other platforms that could also read the electronic book format 279 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: that the Kindle uses. Um That's another thing to point 280 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: out is that we don't have a single standard for 281 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: electronic books. There are several different electronic book formats out 282 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: in the wild, and one of the really popular ones 283 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: is the Kindle format. Yes, um at, and I think 284 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people like that format simply because since 285 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: they have apps on various other platforms and they can 286 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: read it on a computer, they can read it on 287 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: the smartphone, they can read it on their Kindle. Um 288 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: that sort of of utility is a very high selling point, 289 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: although some other companies like Apple have done a lot 290 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: to try and undermine that in some ways with their 291 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: own policies. We'll get into that as well, because that 292 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: also plays a role in publishing. So what makes publishers 293 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: a little nervous or really a little nervous is being 294 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: kind really scared of Amazon. One of the things was 295 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: that Amazon, for a while was really adamant about dictating 296 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: what the price was going to be for an electronic book, 297 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: and Amazon's decision was that it was going to be 298 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: for a new release, which publishers were not thrilled about. 299 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: They did not like the idea of and a vendor 300 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: being able to say that this is what the price 301 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: of e books needs to be, because it meant that 302 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: if that got into the minds of the consumers, that 303 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: people would expect all electronic books from that point forward 304 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: to cost that much. You know, so it's reasonable, right right. 305 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: It's like just like if you were to get something 306 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: for free for several years and then find out that 307 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: you have to pay for it, there's gonna be that 308 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: reaction of wait, what just last week I got this 309 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: for free? Why are you making me pay for it now? 310 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: Same sort of things like, wait what, I just bought 311 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: that book for ten bucks last week? Why are you 312 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: asking for sixteen bucks now? I'm sorry? I was seeing 313 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: pictures at the New York Times in my head. Yeah, So, 314 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: so what Amazon was doing was actually pretty interesting. It 315 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: was it was kind of Amazon does some pretty risky moves, 316 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: and what this move. What Amazon was doing was they 317 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: were the company was buying books just like any other bookstore, 318 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: like even digital copies. That was buying digital copies of 319 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: books just like in the other bookstore, paying the the 320 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: the wholesale amount to the publisher, and then that wholesale 321 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: amount might actually be more than nine dollars nine cents, 322 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: but Amazon would just turn around and sell it for 323 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: nine dollars nine nine cents, meaning that they're taking a 324 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: loss on the sale, but they're doing it in order 325 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: to build up that market share, to to attract consumers 326 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: to using the Kindle platform and purchasing books through the 327 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: Amazon Electronic Bookstore. And if they could hook enough people 328 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: doing that, and they do it by selling books cheaper 329 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: than any other vendor is going to sell it, because 330 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: most other vendors can't afford to cut the the price 331 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: that much and take a loss in every single unit sold. 332 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: Amazon can. But the idea was that maybe Amazon could 333 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: eventually get what effectively would amount to a monopoly on 334 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: the electronic books market. And uh, you know, the publishers 335 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: did not like this at all, And in fact, we 336 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: really saw this come to a head when Steve Jobs 337 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: announced the iPad and eyebooks, because then you saw five 338 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: out of the six major publishers sign on immediately with 339 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: Apple to provide books to the Eye Books Library, and 340 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: the price was no longer limited to nine dollars nine cents. However, 341 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: Steve Jobs was very firm and that it would not 342 00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: go over I think it was. Yeah. They they it's 343 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: a different pricing model and the publishers are getting a 344 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: bigger cut. Um. And there's an agency fee that that 345 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: Apple gets out of it. Yes, um yeah about actually 346 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: um so uh the thing is with all of this 347 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: that uh you may be saying, well, you know, so 348 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: what is all this this price? It goes to all 349 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: those people we were talking about before, the editors, the publicists. Um, 350 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: there's not the cost of printing or distribution. Um. I 351 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: mean yeah, this completely falls under and it's you know, 352 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: we use this a lot, the long tail that Chris 353 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: Anderson talked about, because um books never have e books 354 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: never have to go out of print, but they can 355 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: be there, you know, taking up whatever space they're taking 356 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: up a hard brilliant Yeah, as long as you have 357 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: a a a good program that can take a master 358 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: copy and create a user copy from that master copy, 359 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: that makes that user copy unique in some way. Because 360 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: almost every single form of of of e book file 361 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: format that the major publishers want to use will have 362 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: some form of DRM on it. Yeah, to try and 363 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: prevent piracy. Yes, As a matter of fact, when the 364 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: the books sale goes through, UM, there's a little bit 365 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: of metadata that's encoded in that file that keys it 366 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: to you. So you know it's That's how people know 367 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: on some digital files that they have been corrupted, is 368 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: because that information is still embedded in there some way, 369 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: and that you know they've been cracked, and uh, it 370 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: is possible, but you know they they That's how if 371 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: you opened a book on your e reader. Um. Yeah, 372 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: we were talking about the different readers. We didn't talk 373 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: about the Nook. That was one of the features of 374 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: the Nook was you were able to lend a book 375 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: to a friend with another Nook. So, um, the DRM says, well, hey, 376 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: this is uh, this is Jonathan's file. Um, and Jonathan, 377 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, allows me to read it and I get 378 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: the three weeks I believe it is on the Nook. 379 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: Was it? I thought was too? Well, however long it is. Yeah, 380 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:09,239 Speaker 1: it's authorized for a specific set period and after that period, uh, 381 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: the book is no longer available on the other device. 382 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: And also I think during that time the owner of 383 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: the book cannot read the book right right, So it's 384 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: almost like it's a physical book in the sense that 385 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: if I lent Chris a physical copy of a book 386 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: I have, I could not read that physical copy unless 387 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: I came over to Chris's house and stood behind him 388 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: and looked over his shoulder. And trust me, he hates that. 389 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: So and ever again, knock all. I'm saying, you get 390 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: stabbed in the thigh once with a fork, and you 391 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: do not need to tell me twice. Mr. So, yeah, 392 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: that's all done through d r M. And and so 393 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: you know they're their costs associated with doing this, and 394 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: you know that's why they're they're trying to recoup those costs, 395 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: are trying to make a profit because a lot of 396 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: these are public companies, and also their business was built 397 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: around a different model, and to completely shift everything over, 398 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: you could argue that the electronic model is much more efficient, 399 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: and therefore your costs would decrease dramatically, and therefore you 400 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: would be able to make UH as good or better 401 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: a profit even if you cut your prices just because 402 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: your costs are lower. But you have to remember, you're 403 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: talking about revolutionizing an entire industry. Which is not something 404 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: that's simple to do. Um. And also there is still 405 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: a demand for printed books. There's not like that. It's 406 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: not like the demand for printed books is completely vanished. 407 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,239 Speaker 1: It's so you have to balance that out, like how 408 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: much focus do you put towards your electronic publishing uh 409 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: arm of your company versus your physical publishing. But but 410 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: also just to get back to Amazon for a second. 411 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: Another reason why publishers get really scared about Amazon is 412 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: that Amazon has the potential to become a publisher and 413 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: that there is very little stopping Amazon. In fact, Amazon 414 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: has been talking about doing this from having courting writers 415 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: to write directly for Amazon. So a writer writes a 416 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: book and then Amazon acts as both the publisher and 417 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: the vendor. This could theoretically be a very beneficial uh 418 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: relationship for the author because authors, if you if you 419 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: take the advance out, like let's say that this would 420 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: really change publishing. Uh. The advance is the big deal 421 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: for authors right now, and if you are just starting out, 422 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: that advances your lifeblood because you may not sell enough 423 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: books to have made that much money. Otherwise. Now with 424 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: Amazon's model, you may not get an advance. Instead, Amazon's 425 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: model might be you will get a seventy cut of 426 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: every uh, every book we sell, so you'll make more 427 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: money per book sold through Amazon, but you might not 428 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: make more money total, because the advance you would have 429 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: received from a traditional publisher might have been more money 430 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: than you would have made through selling books in the 431 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: first place. So this is like a weird gamble here. 432 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: And publishers are worried that perhaps authors could would think 433 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: that they're going to have a much more beneficial relationship 434 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: through Amazons. They're going to go there. Um, they're scared 435 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: about that. They're scared that that Amazon will be able 436 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: to undercut all the other sales of books, so that 437 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: will hurt sales even more. But the publishers will also 438 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: counter with saying Amazon doesn't really know how to work 439 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: with authors, like the relationship between authors and publishers is 440 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: different than between authors and a direct like a vendor, 441 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: and that Amazon isn't the kind of company that can 442 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: take time to talk to a new author and and 443 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: kind of discussed with the new author of things, and 444 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: and to uh to adjust deadlines. That was a big 445 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: thing because writers sometimes don't make deadlines he he misterr 446 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: editor and um, and so to talk to you about that. Yeah, 447 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: I know I'm a little behind. But the Yeah, I 448 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: know that too well. I like big butts and I 449 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: cannotline the but yeah, the the Amazon may not be 450 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: able to take that time and effort to speak with 451 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: an author the way a publisher could. So there's there 452 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: are a lot of trade offs that we're talking about here. 453 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: And where this is gonna go is anyone's guess. Although 454 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: based upon the trends, I would say electronic publishing is 455 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: just going to continue to become increasingly important, so we 456 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: may see more authors moved to using a platform like 457 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: Amazon as their publisher. This also pulls into question things 458 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: like monopolies. Would Amazon's writers, would their works be sold 459 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: on any other like through any other bookseller, or would 460 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: they just be available through Amazon Do not Pass, Go, 461 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: do not collect. Yeah, this gets gets really complex. Uh 462 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: and and honestly, we don't have all the answers yet. 463 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: And speaking of complex and monopolies, it probably is worthwhile 464 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: to mention some of the controversies that have gone on 465 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: around the publishing model, including the recent as at the 466 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: time of recording this in mid August Um, Apple Telling, 467 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble, and Amazon that if they wanted to 468 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: continue to sell books through their apps for the iPad, UM, 469 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: that they were going to have to fork over some money. 470 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: So they cut. So that's which is standard across all 471 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: Apple Like, that's Apple's standard operating procedure is that any 472 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: any app that sells something to the end user, Apple 473 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: gives a cut of that. Yeah, an in app purchase. Um. 474 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: So both of them pulled their sales link out. And 475 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: of course you could still buy a book directly from 476 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: them and then upload it to your iPad if you 477 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: want to do that, but um, for now, even that 478 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: is a little complicated, I think because I think there 479 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: was a discussion about Apple saying that you could only 480 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: upload titles from a Kindle up that you could also 481 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: get through Apple Store. Yeah, it's interesting. And then they 482 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 1: Amazon countered with their cloud Reader application, which as an 483 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: HTML five reader that allows you to uh, it's not 484 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: actually an app, um, it's actually a site that allows 485 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: you to read your your Amazon books without um going 486 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: directly through Apple and the the Kindle app. So and 487 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: everybody's been crowing about that in the last few days 488 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: as of the time we're recording this, so UM, and 489 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: I have to say it's it was a pretty clever 490 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: mover on that. Another big UH controversy has been around 491 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: libraries who who worked with a service called overdrive, which 492 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: for a long time was an audio book service for 493 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: libraries public libraries to uh, you know, for people to 494 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: uh listen to stuff. And basically you download the book 495 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: through a through a little app and then you could 496 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: listen to it. And this at the end of the 497 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: checkout period UM the d RM and it would shut 498 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: it out so that you can't use it again. UM. 499 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: And they began offering e books. UM. Some libraries, like 500 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: the library that I belong to, UH does not have 501 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: has overdrives audio books, but does not yet have the 502 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: e book UM capabilities. But I've seen it in action. 503 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. The thing is UM. One of the 504 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: major publishers, HarperCollins, said UM that they wanted to limit 505 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 1: the number of checkouts that you could use with an 506 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: e book to twenty six and this caused a lot 507 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: of library people to be very upset because, um, again 508 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: there's nowhere and tear on an e book. But HarperCollins 509 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: point is okay. But once a paper book has a 510 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: certain number of checkouts, let's say about you know, twenty 511 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: six or so. It's the book is frayed, the binding 512 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: is bad. Um, it's been beaten up, it's been left 513 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: in someone's car. Uh. You know your kids build chocolate 514 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: milk on it. It needs to be replaced with an 515 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: e book. We're not selling more than one copy to you. 516 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: You know that one copy can be checked out indefinitely. 517 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: So UM. A lot of people have been very upset 518 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: about this. Um. The thing is, I could see both 519 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: both sides. Once you bought a copy, Hey, you know 520 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: you bought a copy. You should be able to check 521 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: this out, um, as many times as you want to, 522 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: because it's digital and it doesn't wear out. At the 523 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: same time, the publisher is not making anything past the 524 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: original sale, and a library would probably need to replace 525 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: that copy, especially if it's a popular book. So I 526 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: can see what you do. Yeah, I could see a 527 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: consumer saying if this were the case with the consumer, 528 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: I could say the consumers saying, hey, what if I 529 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: take really good care of my books and I never 530 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: need to replace them anyway, then you're telling me I'm 531 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: being punished for using the electronic format. Uh. There's also 532 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: the concept of windowing, where a publisher will publish the 533 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: hard copy of a book months ahead of any electronic publishing, 534 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: and usually this is done for two reasons, well three really. 535 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: One is electronic books don't count toward best seller lists. 536 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: They well, it depends. Now. New York Times does have 537 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: an e book best seller list, and they have a 538 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: combined print and e book best seller list, but not 539 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: all of them right there. There are a lot of 540 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: the recent things. Yeah, there are a lot of best 541 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: seller lists that would only would only factor in hard 542 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: copy sales, which means that you know publishers who want 543 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: who who count on best seller lists. As being a 544 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: marketing employ they would not want to hurt the chances 545 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: of a book getting on that best seller list by 546 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: also offering electronic copy and then let people buy the 547 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: electronic copy but don't buy the hard copy, and then 548 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: the book doesn't get on the list. Another was that 549 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: they just were worried about cannibalizing the hardcover sales anyway, 550 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: because the hardcovers tend to cost more than the electronic ones. 551 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: And then there's also the worry about piracy. Although we 552 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: have seen with books that have either delayed electronic publication 553 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: or not had any electronic publication at all show up 554 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: as pirated electronic copies on various peer to peer networks 555 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: from people who have scanned the books in the flip 556 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: side of that being people like um uh Corey doctor 557 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: Oh who have offered um their e book version of 558 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: their book immediately for free. And I think Neil Gaiman 559 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: has also done that. I know that there are several 560 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: authors who have arranged it so that their books will 561 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,479 Speaker 1: publish in all formats simultaneously. And uh, the thing is, 562 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: when they've done a trial like that, a lot of 563 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: publishers have found that the e book will actually spur 564 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: sales of the print book. Yeah, and I have done that. 565 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: I have downloaded the free e book and I've started 566 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: reading it and I said, well, you know what, this 567 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: was before I had an iPad, so I was reading 568 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: it on a computer and I thought, you know what, 569 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I'm I'm enjoying the first few pages of this book. 570 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go buy the print book. And I've done 571 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: that two or three times. Well, there's some things that 572 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: are still easier to do with print books than them 573 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: with electronic copies. I mean, it's just you know that 574 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: tactile experience being able to put uh, you know markers 575 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: in your book. I mean you can do that with 576 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the various electronic formats too, but it 577 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: just it's still there's something psychologically that's just not the 578 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: same with that at any rate. The the whole system 579 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: of publication is kind of in this turmoil right now, 580 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: and we really really don't know how it's all gonna 581 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: shake out. It'll really We've got a lot of stubborn 582 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: players with lots of lots of clout out there, So 583 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: it'll really depend on who shouts the loudest and shakes 584 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: their fist the hardest, and who has the most leverage, 585 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: and hopefully whatever happens will end up being good for 586 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: authors and consumers. Yeah, also for Chris's benefit. Editors, well, 587 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: I have to say, I think the publishing industry has 588 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: been a lot quicker to embrace E technology than the 589 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: recording where the movie industry definitely either of those two 590 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: yet um and and they've they've done so well. I 591 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: think I think in general, everybody, the publishers and the 592 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: technology providers and the readers have all made advances in 593 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: working together to to make this happen. There's just a 594 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: lot of issues that have to be worked out so 595 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: that everybody is able to coexist peacefully. Yeah, I have 596 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: a relatively peaceful I would imagine that that one of 597 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: the developments we will eventually see will have to be 598 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: some sort of antitrust charges against Amazon, because even though 599 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: there are other players in the electronic books market, I 600 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: think Amazon's domination is hard, too hard to argue. Um. 601 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: I know that eye Books when it first launch, had 602 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: a really positive launch, had a lot of interest in it. 603 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: But from what I understand, the eye books sales are 604 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: not comparable to Kindle sales, and I think part of 605 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: that is again what we mentioned earlier in the podcast, 606 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: which is the Kindle app just provides for a lot 607 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: of flexibility since you can read it on various devices 608 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: and the the whereas the Eyebooks app is a little 609 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: more limited, and it works great if you have a 610 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: lot of iOS devices, but if you've got other ones 611 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: that you would like to read stuff on, that's kind 612 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: of you're out of luck if you're using eyebooks. Anyway, 613 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: The situation is UH is changing dramatically and quickly, especially 614 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: for industry like publication, which remained unchanged for decades. It 615 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: was definitely one of those those legacy type industries that 616 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's the longer you stay the way you are, 617 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: the harder it's gonna be when you when changes come. 618 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: So it's actually kind of surprising to see how fast 619 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: things are changing right now. We'll keep an eye on 620 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: it and we'll probably do another podcast in the future 621 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: once things kind of shake out a little bit more 622 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: to see sort of the pathway that we took and 623 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: why people chose the you know, the different ways to 624 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: get to where we go. It'll be exciting. I can't 625 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: wait to find out what I'm reading next. Any Way, 626 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up this episode of tech Stuff. We've 627 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: got another one we have to cram in here in 628 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: the studio before we get kicked out. So I would 629 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: like to do is to invite all of our listeners 630 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: to submit their ideas for topics that we should tackle 631 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: in the future. You can let us know an email 632 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: our email addresses text stuff at how Stuff Works dot com, 633 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: or you can contact us through Facebook or Twitter. Are 634 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: handle there is Text Stuff H s W. Chris and 635 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: I will talk to you again really soon. Be sure 636 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. 637 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: Join How Stuff Work staff as we explore the most 638 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: promising and perplexing possibilities us tomorrow. The How Stuff Works 639 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes. Brought 640 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, 641 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: are you