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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. On this special

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Speaker 2: one thousandth episode of the show, I'm joined by Randy

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Speaker 2: Neuberg to discuss the future of hunting, wildlife and wild

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Speaker 2: places and how all of this might impact our way

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Speaker 2: of life in the months and years to come. All right,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast and this

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Speaker 2: very special episode brought to you by First Light. This

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Speaker 2: is our one thousandth episode, which is which is a

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Speaker 2: pretty wild thing to say. And today we've got I

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Speaker 2: think a particularly appropriate topic and guest for this conversation,

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Speaker 2: and I do have an announcement that I want to

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Speaker 2: share with you as well about my future. So first

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Speaker 2: a brief introduction to today's episode and the main point

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Speaker 2: of this conversation. That guest is Randy Newberg. I think

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Speaker 2: most of you know who he is, but he is

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Speaker 2: the host of Fresh Tracks, the YouTube show, the television show,

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Speaker 2: as well as the Hunt Talk radio podcast, The Hunt

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Speaker 2: Talk Forum, and more largely, he's just simply one of

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Speaker 2: our nation's greatest advocates and voices in support of public

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Speaker 2: lands and wildlife and hunting and fishing. And he's someone

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Speaker 2: that over the last decade or more, has really been

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Speaker 2: someone for me that I've leaned on. I've met up

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Speaker 2: with him for many a coffee or a phone call

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Speaker 2: to discuss what's happening with public lands or conservation and

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Speaker 2: really helping me understand how to look at these things,

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Speaker 2: how to do something about it, how to interpret all

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Speaker 2: that's happening. He's really been a great mentor for me.

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Speaker 2: So today, in this moment of reflection, as we look forward,

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Speaker 2: and as I look back on one thousand episodes of

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Speaker 2: this podcast, and then where this is going, and where

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing is going in our way of life

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Speaker 2: and all these different things, it seemed like Randy would

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Speaker 2: be the perfect person to discuss this with. So today

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Speaker 2: we're going to tackle his predictions for the future, you know,

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Speaker 2: where things for hunting might be in ten years or

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Speaker 2: even further down the line, and then more narrowly, what

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Speaker 2: the next twelve months might look like, and some of

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Speaker 2: the key things that he's watching, key things he's concerned about,

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Speaker 2: and you know, ways that we as the hunting and

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Speaker 2: fishing public can be involved in making sure that that

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Speaker 2: future is a brighter one. We discuss, you know, changing

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Speaker 2: demographics of hunters. We talk about how hunter numbers are changing,

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Speaker 2: how both of those two things might impact hunting opportunities.

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Speaker 2: Hunter writes, you know, hunting access over crowdvoing all of

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Speaker 2: those questions and controversies that are coming up more and

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Speaker 2: more now. Today we discuss habitat loss and wildlife population

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Speaker 2: declines and conservation related issues on all of those fronts.

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Speaker 2: It is one that I think will be both educational

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Speaker 2: and inspirational to anyone listening if you hunt or fish,

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Speaker 2: if you love deer or elk or trout or bass

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is. I think this is a conversation

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Speaker 2: that will arm you with the information to be a

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Speaker 2: part of a better future, to make sure that we

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Speaker 2: can keep hunting ten years from now or twenty years

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Speaker 2: from now, to make sure they're still fish in the

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Speaker 2: stream or you know, turkeys on the roost here in

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Speaker 2: a decade or two, which I know is what all

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Speaker 2: of us want. And so that's our conversation today, and

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Speaker 2: that is also very relevant to the piece of news

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Speaker 2: about my own career that I want to share with

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Speaker 2: all of you. And I'll try to keep this brief,

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Speaker 2: but you know, as many of you longtime listeners know,

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Speaker 2: you know this podcast and the writing I do, and

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Speaker 2: the kind of the work that I do on Mediator

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Speaker 2: and on social media, and then this podcast even you

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Speaker 2: know that has evolved over time, that has changed and

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Speaker 2: grown and kind of wound its way through through many

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Speaker 2: different paths over all these years. I started Wired to

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Speaker 2: Hunt back in two thousand and eight with a very

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Speaker 2: simple mission. I simply wanted to scratch my deer hunting

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Speaker 2: itch I was, you know, between my junior and senior

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Speaker 2: year of college. I couldn't hunt because I was on

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Speaker 2: this internship in the city, and I just want a

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Speaker 2: way to do something deer hunting related. So I started

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Speaker 2: this blog back then, and in the years since, you know,

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Speaker 2: it has grown from just a daily website post about

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Speaker 2: deer hunting news, stories and strategies for the next generation

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Speaker 2: into eventually you know, social media channels and videos, and

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Speaker 2: then this podcast, which launched in twenty fourteen. And you know,

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Speaker 2: then I started hosting shows for Mediator and doing increasingly

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Speaker 2: different things, but also the topic and the focus of

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Speaker 2: my work has changed as well. You know, it's shifted

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Speaker 2: and has grown from just how do you hunt stuff?

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Speaker 2: How do you kill more deer? How do you become

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Speaker 2: a more effective hunter? Two? Over time? How do we

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Speaker 2: make sure that there are deer out there to hunt?

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Speaker 2: How do we make sure that there are wild places

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Speaker 2: out there to explore and opportunities to hunt or fish

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Speaker 2: or backpack or climb or whatever it is you like

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Speaker 2: to do outside. As I have had my life change

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Speaker 2: by hunting and fishing in the outdoors, I've wanted to

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Speaker 2: find more and more ways I can make sure that

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Speaker 2: keeps happening to the future for other people. And so

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Speaker 2: you've likely seen that evolution here in the podcast. You've

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Speaker 2: heard more episodes with that type of content, including today's episode.

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Speaker 2: You've seen this show up in my shows that I

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Speaker 2: film for Meat Eater. Increasingly, you've likely seen that in

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Speaker 2: some of the different things I've done, whether it be

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Speaker 2: the volunteer efforts we spearheaded with the Working for Wildlife

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Speaker 2: Tour or my work you know now on the National

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Speaker 2: Board of Directors for Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, or the

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Speaker 2: National Deer Association Sportsmen for the Boundary Waters, different things

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Speaker 2: like that, and now I'm excited to share that I'm

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Speaker 2: taking another step in that direction as I am starting

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Speaker 2: this week taking over as director of Conservation for Meat Eater,

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Speaker 2: And this is something I am beyond excited about. This

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Speaker 2: is something that's so in line with, you know, where

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Speaker 2: I want my career to go and where I think

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Speaker 2: I can make the greatest difference. Where my heart is.

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Speaker 2: You know, as a father of two young boys, my

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Speaker 2: kind of view that I look out the scale has

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Speaker 2: grown so much because I'm not just worried about however

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Speaker 2: many decades I have left on this planet, but now

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Speaker 2: also those two young boys. And I think anyone out

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Speaker 2: there who's a mom or dad can probably relate to that.

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Speaker 2: So in this new role as director of Conservation for Mediator,

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Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be able to build off of the

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Speaker 2: foundation that my good friend and mentor, Brian Callahan laid

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Speaker 2: and Steve Ranella of course laid this conservation ethos that

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Speaker 2: we have at Mediator and that drew me to Meetator,

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Speaker 2: you know, almost ten years ago. I'm excited to build

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Speaker 2: off of that. I've always felt that we were doing

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Speaker 2: great work, but we could do even more, and so

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Speaker 2: my goal and my task is to find ways to

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Speaker 2: do that. How do we become even more strategic and

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Speaker 2: focused on how we use meet Eater's platform and voice

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Speaker 2: and content and resources of all kinds to fight for

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Speaker 2: the future of wildlife and wild places. That's my job

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Speaker 2: is to figure that out. Is to activate our team

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Speaker 2: and our shows and our resources and dollars and energy

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Speaker 2: to make that happen. To make sure that we have

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Speaker 2: deer in the woods, fish in the stream and in

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Speaker 2: the ponds, make sure we have access to these wild places,

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Speaker 2: make sure we have public lands available, make sure we

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Speaker 2: have healthy habitat on private lands. Making sure the hunters

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Speaker 2: and anglers' voices are heard and our actions are seen.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to the really important work we're doing

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Speaker 2: to fight for wildlife and wild places. All of that

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Speaker 2: is on my agenda and on my to do list

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Speaker 2: in the months and weeks to come. I'm very excited

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Speaker 2: about it. I don't want to belabor the point here anymore,

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Speaker 2: but expect a lot of exciting new programs, ideas, content

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Speaker 2: and projects coming from Mediator. I'll continue to do whitetail

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Speaker 2: stuff here on Wired Hunt of course that is my

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Speaker 2: first true love. But there will be more voices and

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Speaker 2: different voices on here on Wired tount as well. I'll

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Speaker 2: be having some new content projects in which I'll be

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Speaker 2: exploring these larger topics of conservation and other wildlife and

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Speaker 2: wild place related topics. So keep an eye out for that.

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Speaker 2: Lots of new stuff to come in the months and

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Speaker 2: years to come. But I appreciate you guys being with

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Speaker 2: me all of these years here at Wired to Hunt.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your support and your attention, your comments

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Speaker 2: and ideas, and maybe more than anything, thanks for your passion.

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Speaker 2: The passion that I know you guys have for deer

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Speaker 2: hunting and for the outdoors. And so many of you

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Speaker 2: too share the same interest and love I have for

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Speaker 2: keeping these places and these critters around in the long term.

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Speaker 2: So I hope that you will come with me on

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Speaker 2: this next phase of my journey. Thank you for being here,

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Speaker 2: and now this very appropriate conversation with mister Randy Newberg

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Speaker 2: about the future of hunting in America. All right, with

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Speaker 2: me back on the line again today is Randy Newburgh.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, Randy.

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Speaker 3: Mark, So nice to be here talking to you. Thanks

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Speaker 3: for inviting me.

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Speaker 2: It is always a pleasure. We've talked a good bit

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Speaker 2: over the years offline. I feel like at least once

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Speaker 2: a year, if not more, we're checking in on each

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Speaker 2: other and seeing how things are going. And as I've

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Speaker 2: just mentioned to you offline, you've long been a person

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Speaker 2: that I've been able to turn to with questions and

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Speaker 2: and help me kind of think about things the right

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Speaker 2: way or center myself on these these issues that you

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Speaker 2: and I both care so much about. But I went

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Speaker 2: and looked back at podcasts we've done, and we actually

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Speaker 2: haven't done a podcast, at least on this show in

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Speaker 2: five years, which shocked me. It's been that long.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I had to get to Yeah, we get

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Speaker 3: to brainstorm every so often. I just in my head,

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking you're recording all this so.

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Speaker 2: Saying I know, I know, right, So I'm glad we're

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Speaker 2: making that happen here today, and it's it's it's on

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Speaker 2: a fitting episode, the thousandth episode, an important kind of

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Speaker 2: milestone for Wired to Hunt and for me. So I

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Speaker 2: appreciate you joining me for this one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and well, I'm honored that you'd ask me.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to ask you to do something a

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Speaker 2: little bit challenging here, So forgive me for throwing you

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Speaker 2: under the bus right off the gate, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to ask you to I'm going to ask you to

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Speaker 2: zoom out. Let's zoom out and put on our predicting

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Speaker 2: goggles and look with me to the year twenty thirty six,

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Speaker 2: ten years from now. Paint me a picture when it

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Speaker 2: comes to hunting and wildlife. Paint me a picture of

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Speaker 2: what you predict we might, as hunters or anglers or

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Speaker 2: outdoors people be living through or experiencing in twenty thirty six.

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Speaker 2: Where do you see things going?

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Speaker 3: Wow, I'm going to put my goggles on back to

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen and try to compare what I would have

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Speaker 3: thought when I was fifty one in twenty sixteen and

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Speaker 3: see how much different it is today. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that are going on today that I think

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Speaker 3: if you had asked me this question ten years ago,

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Speaker 3: I would have predicted it or felt very likely it

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Speaker 3: was going to happen, as it relates to the continued

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Speaker 3: attack on public lands. But some of the things that

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Speaker 3: I would not have predicted are the changes in not

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Speaker 3: just the hunting world but our world in general of

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Speaker 3: how bombarded we are with messaging and content and the

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Speaker 3: instantaneous sharing of information, you could see it coming, but

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Speaker 3: ten years ago I could not have predicted it would

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Speaker 3: be to the volume that it is, or that it

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Speaker 3: would create certain levels within American populace where you just

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Speaker 3: don't know what to trust, right, Yeah, Can I trust

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Speaker 3: what this source says or what that start says? And

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Speaker 3: so it creates a bit of a paralysis. One of

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Speaker 3: the human conditions that it probably prays on is just

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Speaker 3: our level of skepticism, and that that takes a lot

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Speaker 3: of energy to always be trying to sort out can

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Speaker 3: I trust this? Can I not trust that? And it

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Speaker 3: also causes people to be a little bit hesitant about

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Speaker 3: being an advocate and speaking up and saying what they

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Speaker 3: feel or what's important to them, because they're asking themselves,

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Speaker 3: is this really? This is really something I trust? Can

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Speaker 3: I trust this person who's telling me this? So I

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Speaker 3: would not have seen that. So as I go forward

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Speaker 3: to twenty thirty six, to your question, I think we're

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Speaker 3: still going to see the continued attacks on public land.

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Speaker 3: That's without a given or without a question, that's just

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Speaker 3: a given. The other things I think in terms of

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Speaker 3: why life, I think we're going to go through a

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Speaker 3: period where hunters are going to realize that we're going

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Speaker 3: to get back to the cornerstones of what got us here.

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Speaker 3: Right now, I think we're we're kind of looking for that.

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Speaker 3: We maybe enjoyed a period of the good old days

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Speaker 3: and maybe took for granted some of the things that

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Speaker 3: got us here. But I think hunting, at least where

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Speaker 3: I live out in the West, is going to have

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Speaker 3: some hard times where herds are going to continue to

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Speaker 3: drop and drop and drop, and they have for the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years. But we're going to reach a point

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Speaker 3: where people are going to say, you know what, enough

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Speaker 3: of that. We're going to go back to what hunters

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Speaker 3: have always done, and that is we're going to fund habitat,

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Speaker 3: We're going to focus on habitat, We're going to speak up,

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Speaker 3: going to stand up, going to do the right things.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying we're not doing that today, but

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Speaker 3: we aren't doing it as consistently as our predecessors did.

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Speaker 3: So I think there's always this boomerang effect, right that

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Speaker 3: they say, history repeats itself, you want whatever term you

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Speaker 3: want to put to that. I think we're going to

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Speaker 3: see some of that by twenty thirty.

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Speaker 2: Six that resonates in me. Now, I'm want to ask

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Speaker 2: you to zoom in a little further. I want to

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Speaker 2: dive into what you just said, But I also want

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Speaker 2: to shrink the scale just a little bit and ask

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Speaker 2: you now to predict what will happen over the next

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Speaker 2: twelve months. How do you see the next twelve months

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Speaker 2: kind of coming to manifest in relation to those things?

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Speaker 2: And then once you tell me that, then I think

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Speaker 2: we can unpack a couple of those things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the next twelve months are probably the most worrisome

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Speaker 3: twelve months I've had in my life of being an

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Speaker 3: advocate for public clans and conservation. What is being cooked

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Speaker 3: up right now and the things that are happening, and

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Speaker 3: the pace at which are happening, and just the fatigue

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Speaker 3: we're all feeling from having to push back on this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Is I hope it's the apex of my life of

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Speaker 3: the volume of this and the potential damage of some

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Speaker 3: of it. So in the next twelve months, I would

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Speaker 3: tell people, if you think last summer was difficult, brace yourself,

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Speaker 3: it's going to get more difficult. They learned a lot

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Speaker 3: from last summer when Mike Lee floated the big beautiful

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Speaker 3: bill amendment to try sell public lands. Well, that was

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a test balloon. Let's see how

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Speaker 3: much pressure there is. And I found out there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of pressure. Okay, how do we become more discreet

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Speaker 3: than this, How do we become a little more clandestine,

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Speaker 3: and how we accomplish this, how do we not do

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Speaker 3: it in a way that raises as much angst but

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Speaker 3: still lets us get what we want out of it.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's concerning to me. I mean, I could

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Speaker 3: writele off a list of things right now that I

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Speaker 3: know are cooking in DC and that some of the

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Speaker 3: groups are some of the people, some of the folks

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Speaker 3: who really aren't in our camp when it comes to

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Speaker 3: conservation on public lands, what they want out of this,

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Speaker 3: and depending on how the midterm elections turn out, you know,

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Speaker 3: And this is just this isn't just this administration. It's

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Speaker 3: anytime there's an administration that sees a mid term change,

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Speaker 3: or a Congress sees a midterm change, they get in

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Speaker 3: a big hurry before that next Congress gets seated. And

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Speaker 3: you know that pattern oll repeat if there's a change

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Speaker 3: in power in the midterms in November when that new

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Speaker 3: Congress gets seated in January, there will be a big

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Speaker 3: hurry to do a bunch of stuff. And I can

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Speaker 3: say this because I'm older and grayer than you, But

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Speaker 3: there's an old saying of beware of an old man

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Speaker 3: in a hurry, and that that's cautioned me of what

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Speaker 3: I think the next twelve months hold in store.

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Speaker 2: So in the short term you're very concerned. In the

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Speaker 2: long term, you noted a low point. We're gonna go

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Speaker 2: downhill in some fashion. We're gonna experience some kind of nadir,

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Speaker 2: some some bad stuff's gonna happen, but we're gonna bounce

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Speaker 2: back out of that.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Hunters have, Americans always have.

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Speaker 2: Can you give me some of the specific things that

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Speaker 2: you think will be the examples of what's going to

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Speaker 2: be so concerning this next twelve months and leading into

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Speaker 2: the next three, four or five six years before we

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Speaker 2: have that bounce back. What are the two three things

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Speaker 2: that are keeping you up the most at night right

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Speaker 2: now that will really impact hunting and hunters and outdoors people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the things that really concerned me will be diversion

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Speaker 3: of money that is meant for access, because we all

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Speaker 3: know that private access is shrinking. That makes public access,

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Speaker 3: our access to our federal lands, even more important, and

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Speaker 3: they're diverting that right there. They're not submitted the LWCF projects,

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Speaker 3: which Land and Water Conservation Fund is the biggest funding

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Speaker 3: mechanism for improving and solving complex access problems on federal

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Speaker 3: lands or within the federal landscape of public private So

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Speaker 3: they're diverting that money or they're just not putting the

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Speaker 3: projects forward. So we are going to lose a lot

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Speaker 3: of projects that private landowners have been in the works

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Speaker 3: for the last anywhere from three to five years, working

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Speaker 3: with federal agencies. They're these kind of landowners we want

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Speaker 3: to work with because they are conservation minded, they want

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Speaker 3: the public to have access, and we've been promising them

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Speaker 3: for years. Stay with us, stay with us. Congress is

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Speaker 3: going to approve this all of a sudden, Department of

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Speaker 3: Interior says, we're just not going to submit a list.

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Speaker 3: So now these landowners who've trusted us are left holding

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Speaker 3: the bag. So they're going to go sell the private parties,

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Speaker 3: which is exactly what some of these groups want. So

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Speaker 3: in the twelve month next twelve months, we're going to

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Speaker 3: see the impacts of that we're going to see the

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Speaker 3: impacts of Department of Interiors are saying we're going to

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Speaker 3: divert this money from access. We're going to divert it

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Speaker 3: over to maintenance. Whatever maintenance is, right building a new

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Speaker 3: headquarters in Grand Junction, Colorado, or whatever that might be,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to be for public access. The other

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Speaker 3: one that we're going to see is where I live

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Speaker 3: in the West. When we talk about habitat, a lot

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Speaker 3: of that's on federal land, publicly owned federal land. And

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Speaker 3: right now it's a race to see how much resource

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Speaker 3: extraction can happen on federal lands with the least amount

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Speaker 3: of accommodation for wildlife, which is not how we've done

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Speaker 3: it in the past. Right, we need these resources. Anyone

354
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Speaker 3: who wants to just say no, no, no, no, you're

355
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Speaker 3: heading down a dead end street because we need resources.

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Speaker 3: One of the things Americans have always done a good

357
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Speaker 3: job of is saying, yeah, we can get these resources,

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Speaker 3: and we can do it to accommodate wildlife. But I'm

359
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Speaker 3: just looking at what's happening in Western Wyoming. Western Wyoming

360
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Speaker 3: is the longest migration corridor on the continent, or at

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Speaker 3: least in the lower forty eight. I should say it

362
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Speaker 3: has our keystone meal deer herd, the western Wyoming meal

363
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Speaker 3: deer herd. It has the largest prong horn population on

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Speaker 3: the continent. And right now we are letting the oil

365
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Speaker 3: and gas industry nominate which partials they want to put

366
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Speaker 3: up for Lisa this summer with no accommodation for the

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Speaker 3: meal deer and the prong horn. So we're looking at

368
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Speaker 3: a meal deer herd that with the Jonah project in

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Speaker 3: the late nineteen nineties, the Pinedale project in the early

370
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Speaker 3: two thousands, that meal deer herd is down fifty percent.

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Speaker 3: How many hits can that meal deer herd sustain to

372
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Speaker 3: its migration corridor and to its winter grounds. And so

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Speaker 3: if you live in Wyoming, that's a concern to you

374
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Speaker 3: because that's where a lot of Wyoming guys hunt, are

375
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Speaker 3: guys and gals. And if you're a non resident, that

376
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: should be a concern to you be because if that

377
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 3: starts going down further and further and further, the first

378
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 3: place that gets cut is a non resident opportunity. So

379
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 3: residents and non residents are in this game together. And

380
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Speaker 3: right now, I don't see a lot of people willing

381
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Speaker 3: to stand up and push back on this. So in

382
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Speaker 3: the next twelve months, if these projects go up for lease,

383
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Speaker 3: get approved, and eventually get developed. We're talking about some

384
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Speaker 3: of these being right in the core of a very

385
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Speaker 3: narrow migration corridor that's hundreds of miles long or one

386
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 3: hundred miles long. But these herds have used for thousands

387
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: and thousands of years, and they've already shown us that

388
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 3: they can't continue to sustain this type of development without

389
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Speaker 3: accommodation for them. So the flip side of that is

390
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 3: we could do things that accommodate them, and we should.

391
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Speaker 3: And that's where we as hunters play a role, is

392
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Speaker 3: to say, yeah, we need energy. We don't. No one's

393
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Speaker 3: saying we don't. Let's develop energy, but let's do it

394
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Speaker 3: in a way that wildlife has a chance. And all

395
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Speaker 3: that's coming. I mean, those are just two quick things

396
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Speaker 3: coming in the next twelve months plus more.

397
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Speaker 2: And even those two examples you just gave, there are

398
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Speaker 2: dozens of examples of how that very same thing is

399
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 2: happening in other corners of the United States or in

400
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 2: other corners of our public land and wildlife policy. I mean,

401
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 2: the specifics of like migration quarters. Let's look get up

402
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: in Alaska our actual longest single migration on the continent,

403
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: which is caribou, and the signed to develop a two

404
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 2: hundred plus mile industrial corridor bisecting one of those longest migrations,

405
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Speaker 2: or or drilling and developing the calving grounds of our

406
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: largest remaining herd of caribou in the continent, and again

407
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: oil fields there. So there's many, many, many other examples

408
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 2: like that. And the funding thing is you just mentioned,

409
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 2: that's massive. That is tied directly to the biggest reason

410
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: that people stop hunting, which is limited access, not being

411
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: able to find somewhere to go. And the biggest complaint

412
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: probably that people have today is, hey, there's too many

413
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Speaker 2: folks out there. It seems like we're over crowded. All

414
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: these non residents are showing up, or all these city

415
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: slickers or all these whatever everyone's complaining about that. Well,

416
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 2: if we don't have funding for new public land and

417
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: funding to keep our current public lands well managed and usable,

418
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: well then that's a bigger and bigger problem. But Randy,

419
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: all of this feels like it's being shoved down our

420
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: throats without anything that we can say about the matter.

421
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Speaker 3: It is. It is being shoved down our throats because

422
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: we have a Congress that has just stepped aside and said,

423
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: you know, we're just here for mostly the formative part

424
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 3: of our job, where we get in front of it

425
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: news camera and make a big stink about some abstract issue.

426
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 3: That's it is being shot down our throat because of that.

427
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: Because we are the United States, citizen always had its

428
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: opportunity to weigh in through public meetings, which we've gotten

429
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 3: rid of most of those public meetings. We're taking resource

430
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 3: management plans that took ten years to put together where

431
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 3: the public did have their input there and they're being

432
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: removed and being thrown out. So that whole public process

433
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: that we've worked on, that's we were told your voice counts.

434
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: The new model is, let's just get rid of that.

435
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: So the last remaining if you want to call them,

436
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: steps on the ladder or levers that we have is

437
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: to put pressure on our congressional delegations to say it

438
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: is up to you to do your job, and your

439
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: job is to weigh in on this stuff, to push

440
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: back on it. And one of the things that just

441
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: in the last week is kind of optimistic is the

442
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: administration put forth a bare bones budget for the Park Service,

443
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 3: for the BLM, and for the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

444
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: When that came to Congress, Congress said, no way, we're

445
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: not We're not cutting it like that. So they restored

446
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: most of that. So that's where Congress needs a you

447
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: know about on the back of Hey, thanks for standing

448
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: up and doing that. And that is the example of

449
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: what Congress could do in every one of these instances.

450
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 3: They could give voice to this, they could give perspective

451
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: to it, and they are there to represent us the people,

452
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: and that we got to hold them accountable. I know,

453
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 3: people just get so tired of the ninth grade Civics thing. Right,

454
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: you got to call your congress person. You got to

455
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 3: call your congress person. That's what we got to do.

456
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: I wish I could say we could, you know, if

457
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: we all got on Facebook and complained enough that change it.

458
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: That's what that's what they're hoping. That's what we'll do

459
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: because it doesn't make a difference. So those are those

460
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 3: are the things I see.

461
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: What's your read or what's your takeaway from last summer?

462
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: I think some people saw last summer and saw, well,

463
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: there's a lot of celebration about the fact we stopped

464
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: the public land sell off, but a whole bunch of

465
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: other bad stuff got through that we couldn't do anything

466
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: about because we were focused on the self, while other

467
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: folks would focus on the good, which was well, Hey,

468
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: at least we had one example where everyone came together,

469
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 2: stood up for something, and it did seem to make

470
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: a difference. And there's you know, there there is some optimism.

471
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that are saying, man, if

472
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: we could just bottle up what happened last June, July

473
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: whatever and apply that in the future, we could really

474
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: change things. And there do seem to be some folks

475
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: on the Republican side who are saying, ah, this Mike

476
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: Lee set of ideas and his people, this isn't settling

477
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: well with my constituents. I'm getting a lot of as

478
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: the emails and phone calls, maybe we're getting a little

479
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: bit of momentum there. What's your take on that when

480
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: you analyze what happened and think about what that means

481
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: for the future.

482
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a very powerful event and

483
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 3: I felt that personally since we watched it all unfold, right,

484
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: A lot of people didn't know that at the time

485
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: when that amendment was on the Senate floor. There were

486
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: eighteen Republicans who were going to vote against a chairman

487
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 3: of one of their committees. That's how bad of an

488
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 3: idea this was. And it wasn't just US Hunters, it

489
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: was people from everywhere. Yeah, US Hunters had a big

490
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: role because we have access to some of the more

491
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: rural senators who were very important in that, so we

492
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 3: maybe had an outsize role in it. But it was

493
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: everybody who's a public land to use her public land advocate.

494
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: So I in my head, I'm like, I wonder if

495
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: this has taught them a lesson, And you never know

496
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: other than I was meeting with a lobbyist who mostly

497
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: lobbies on more resource issues and probably i'd say friendlier

498
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: to the right side of the aisle, and he sought

499
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: me out. He's like, hey, I got to ask you

500
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: some questions because I could really use your help, and

501
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: I'm willing to talk to anybody if I think it's progress.

502
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 3: And one of the things he said really caught me.

503
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: He said, you know, don't worry about the public land

504
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: sale thing. There's not a Republican who wants to touch it.

505
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 3: He said, I can tell you there's a chairman of

506
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: the committee who told me we are not touching another

507
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 3: public land sale for ten years after last summer. Mike's good, Okay.

508
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: So then I said, what about all these other kind

509
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: of behind the scenes stuff, stuff that doesn't require congressional action,

510
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: all the things that can be done by executive order,

511
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: secretarial order, Like I wish I could help you on that.

512
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: He did. He wasn't very optimiz stick on that part

513
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: of it, which again confirmed my thoughts of where this

514
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: is going in the tactics that are going to be used.

515
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a specific clarifying question I want to

516
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: run by you. You talked about the dollars that have

517
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: been appropriate for the Land and Water Conservation Fund, and

518
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: that was a big win for us back in twenty

519
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: twenty when that was permanently authorized and supposedly fully funded.

520
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, that is what we use to pay

521
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: for future public land access and increases, and in twenty

522
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: twenty five. Correct me if I'm wrong on these details,

523
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: but as I understand that the twenty twenty five dollars

524
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: had been held up from being sent out, and no

525
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: list of the projects for twenty twenty six have been

526
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: sent But then I did see in the House budget

527
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: they approved full funding for LWCF just recently. So where

528
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: do we stand with twenty twenty five payments, twenty twenty

529
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: six nomination, and where LWCF is going in the future.

530
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: What's the specific moment we're in there.

531
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, most of this is happening in the Apartment of

532
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: Interior or not Department of bag which the four service

533
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: is under the Department of AG. So most of what

534
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: we're talking about of these concerns are with Department of Interior,

535
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: which covers the Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service,

536
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: and the US Fish and Wildlife Service. So the twenty

537
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: twenty five projects for that fiscal year probably are we're

538
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: not going to get them done because if there's a

539
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: secretarial order or word that just says don't complete these,

540
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: it's not like your BLM state office can go do

541
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: something if it's against what the National Office says. So

542
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: the other part of that is Congress can appropriate the money,

543
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 3: but if Interior doesn't submit a project list, there are

544
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: no projects to be funded with the appropriation. So the

545
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: folks with the levers of power, who are the anti

546
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: public land folks right now, who have way more levers

547
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: of power than they ever have. They know how the

548
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 3: system works, and they know where the little tricks are

549
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: of how can we muck it up? And those levers

550
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: are being pulled right now. So I'm optimistic when Congress

551
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: says we're going to do this. But if you have

552
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: agencies that are led by people or influenced by people,

553
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: or omb steps in and says we're not going to

554
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: do this, it doesn't get done. And these are private

555
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: landowners who are going to sell us an eastment or

556
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: they're going to sell us an in holding to solve

557
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 3: complex issues, and they can't wait forever, and the other

558
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: side knows that. So the more they run out the clock,

559
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: the more these that fall apart.

560
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: And to clarify for folks, these funds are dollars that

561
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: are not coming from taxpayers. These dollars are coming from

562
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: royalties from offshore drilling, so that's where these dollars come from.

563
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: And then these dollars are used to purchase land from

564
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: willing sellers to increase the public land estate or access sites, parks,

565
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff that then we get to use

566
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: benefit from sites. Yeah, and this isn't like yep, this

567
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: isn't like small scale stuff like that. There's tens of

568
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: thousands of acres that were you know, up for nomination

569
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: in recent years, right, or hundreds of thousands of acres

570
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: I've heard even from Okay. This is serious access that

571
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: could be acquired but may not be known.

572
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: Right. So the clutching is that we're going to let

573
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: that happen. And if you're in the Montana delegation, you're

574
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: getting interful about it. Now. I get if I was

575
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: maybe in a very urban state, if I lived in

576
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 3: New Jersey, I don't know that I'd be that worked

577
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: up about it because I don't have a lot of

578
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: public land there. But no matter where you live, if

579
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: you want places to hunt or access on public land,

580
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: these easements that get bought with LWCF, these little in

581
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: holdings that can block access to twenty thousand and fifty

582
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 3: thousand acres. Acquiring those solves these problems. So all of us,

583
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: no matter where you live, benefit from it. And you know,

584
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: the program LWCF is the same age I am was

585
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 3: past the nineteen sixty four and the idea, the premise

586
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: behind it was we're depleting one publicly owned asset, our

587
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: oil and gas reserves offshore let's use some of that money,

588
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: a very small portion of it to conserve and replace

589
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: some other public asset, the terrestrial, the land that we

590
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 3: have here on shore. And so that's been the premise.

591
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 3: It's never been this political football until about ten fifteen

592
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: years ago. It was always such a well received program.

593
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: And even today the citizens, if you read every survey

594
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: about that Republican Democrat, over ninety percent of all people Republican, Democrat, independent,

595
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: want to see this program continue and they want to

596
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 3: see it used invested to solve access. But you wouldn't

597
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 3: know that if you listen to Congress or you watch

598
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 3: them on the you know, on the news or whatever

599
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: camera they're in front of. You know, they got to

600
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 3: make a big spiel about something.

601
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 2: So the the kind of adjacent issue to this, And

602
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: I kind of mention this at the top, but I'm

603
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: curious more of your take on this. One of the

604
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: most hotly debated, discussed, trolled about issues in the hunting

605
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: world right now that everyone's complaining about is overcrowding, not

606
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: being able to find places to hunt, or having your

607
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: hunting spot below up or tuny people at the trailhead,

608
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: or I've lost all my permission spots to hunt in

609
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: Michigan because everyone's leasing up everything and there's nowhere to

610
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: go now, and so there's all sorts of concern around this,

611
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: and there's all sorts of finger pointing around this. Some

612
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: of those fingers have been pointed at people like me

613
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: and you and other folks that talk about hunting and

614
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,479
Speaker 2: fishing and outdoor recreation and all that. What's your take

615
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: on that, in what the future looks like in that

616
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: regard both the causes for it and remedies for it,

617
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: and how you think about it.

618
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, how I think about it is that we are

619
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: losing There's no argument to be made that I can

620
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: think of that would counter the understanding that we are

621
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 3: losing access. We lose access to public or private lands

622
00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: because of development, because of leasing, because of sometimes it's

623
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 3: hunter behavior. There's all kinds of reasons why we lose

624
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 3: access to private lane. Well, then if that the ownership

625
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: in my state of Montana, ownership change is a big thing.

626
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: You get people who come and buy a ranch and

627
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 3: or a billionaire and it's one hundred thousand acres and

628
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 3: it used to be the school bus driver got to

629
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: bring his or her family out there. The mechanic brought

630
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 3: his family out there, the you know, the waitress brought

631
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: her family. That there were thirty people who had access

632
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 3: to hunt that ranch. It changes hands, it gets locked up,

633
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: nobody hunts it. Now those thirty people aren't going to

634
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: quit hunting. They get displaced. So there's there's things like

635
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: that that contribute to it. So everybody should be on

636
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 3: board with more access. So then we get to the

637
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 3: question of that's one of the causes. Then there's the

638
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: question of is it because there are more hunters that's

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: the number that's one of the other premises to the

640
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: discover ussion, right, or one of the other statements made

641
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: that's creating crowding. Well, there are not more hunters. The

642
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 3: IUS Fish and Wildlife Service reports related to this talk

643
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 3: about hunting licenses sold. It doesn't break out total hunters.

644
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: And I've been studying those reports for thirty years, and

645
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: i've so in the last three months because no one's

646
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: been willing to dig into this really to try to

647
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: get to what are true hunter numbers. I worked for

648
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 3: someone who is an AI specialists, and we spent aged

649
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: a lot of time going to every state from twenty

650
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 3: fifteen to twenty twenty three and examining the trends, then yeah,

651
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 3: some states change. Okay, in twenty eighteen, we said that

652
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: now youth and adults or senior citizens they got to

653
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: buy a license, but it's free. So all of a

654
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: sudden there's a spike. It looks like they sold more license.

655
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 3: There's a lot of things you got to balance out

656
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 3: in this. Well, if you use twenty fifteen as the

657
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: baseline year and give that a score of one hundred,

658
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: with very few exceptions, every state in the country has

659
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: seen a licensed sale to residents that is way below that.

660
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 3: Every state with a very few exceptions. Because I'll use

661
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: an example like Colorado in their year of that ends

662
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: the March of twenty twenty, which also we add the

663
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 3: COVID spike. Right, they said, if you're going to accumulate points,

664
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: you got to buy a small game license. All of

665
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: a sudden you got a whole bunch more people who

666
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 3: had to buy a license that year. So even if

667
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: you adjust for that, there's there's not an increase in hunters.

668
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 3: And I'm sitting on all this data and I've got

669
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 3: volumes of it. I mean, if you if you want

670
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 3: to find the power of AI sit down and do

671
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: a couple month project or someone who knows how to

672
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: use it. So I've shared this data with some people

673
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: who are kind of involved in this stuff from the

674
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: standpoint of agencies, and I'm like, why don't we have

675
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 3: license sales resident license sales for every state, because here's

676
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: what the trend says. If you relied on the US

677
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 3: Fish and Wildlife Service reports, you'd think that we're static

678
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: or maybe even increasing.

679
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: Yep.

680
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 3: And when I showed them their reports are like, oh

681
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: my god, yeah, we need that data because some of

682
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: the critics who you know, who want to say that

683
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: we're the problem for everything. I'm like, well, why don't

684
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 3: you go build the data then, And they're like, well,

685
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 3: that's the best I got, that's the best that's out there.

686
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, if you really want to have a

687
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 3: factual discussion, go do the work to build that data

688
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 3: and don't use the flawed US Fish and Wildlife Service data.

689
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: And people are like, well, how's that flawed? Well, I

690
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: buy ten hunting license to apply in all these states,

691
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 3: so I get counted ten times, and we know the

692
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 3: trend in the last twenty years is that more people

693
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: travel to hunt. So if you look at the report

694
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: from twenty years ago, there weren't as many people getting

695
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: double counted, triple counted, ten times counted as there are today.

696
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: So true boots on the ground of hunters, whether we're

697
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: talking small game, big game, is not. That is not

698
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: what's creating the problem. The numbers are going down. Yes,

699
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: every one of these states that we analyze has a

700
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: little blip in twenty twenty. Very few of them have

701
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: hunter numbers back to where they were in twenty nineteen.

702
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 3: And if you adjust it for population growth, the slope

703
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 3: of that curve is way steeper decline if you adjust

704
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: it for population growth.

705
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 2: So fewer absolute hunters. But those hunters that are still

706
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: here might just be concentrated in smaller and smaller areas.

707
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: And maybe many of these hunters are spending more days

708
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: per person than some did in the past, possibly because

709
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: of the effort level that many hunters have now is higher.

710
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, Randy, there are some in our

711
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: community that would say to this, good good, I'm glad

712
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: there are fewer hunters because that means there would be

713
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: less competition for me to kill my big buck or

714
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: my big elk, And good riddance and let's keep people

715
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 2: out of here because they're ruining it. Well, how do

716
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: you respond to that? Why is this a problem in you?

717
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 3: If you want to yeah, if you want to embrace,

718
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 3: embrace that scarcity mindset, tell me where that leads us

719
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: in the long run. Tell me where that leads ten, twenty, thirty,

720
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: forty years from now. It's one hundred and eighty degree

721
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 3: reversal from the abundant mindset that got hunting to where

722
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 3: it is today. So are we going to fight over

723
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 3: the last little scraps of the last few mial deer

724
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: in Wyoming? Are we going to fight over the last

725
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 3: little scraps of big horn sheep in Montana? Are we

726
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: going to put more sheep on the mountain or are

727
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: we going to do what those mill deer need? Because

728
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 3: if let's use Wyoming right, mil deer and pronghorn numbers

729
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 3: in Wyoming are about half of what they were at

730
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: the turn of the millennium. What does that mean? That

731
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: means there's half as many tags. So if you want

732
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: to double your odds of drawing a tag as a

733
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: resident or non resident, let's get back to what the

734
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 3: numbers were in twenty twenty or in two thousand. That's

735
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: abundance thinking. That's saying we can do better, we can

736
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: do more. That's what all of our predecessors said. I

737
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: completely reject and decline to even entertain the idea is

738
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: of that scarcity mindset that we just got to fight harder,

739
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 3: We got to figure out how to exclude somebody else.

740
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: Now there are other things that have created crowding in

741
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: my state. We always said we're going to have seventeen

742
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: thousand non resident hunters, dear and now come big game hunners. Well,

743
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: the legislature got involved in about twenty years ago and

744
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 3: they said, well, my children just moved out of Montana,

745
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 3: I'd like to have this program called to come Home

746
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 3: to Hunt where they don't have to be part of

747
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 3: the draw. And then the next legislative session they had

748
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 3: this Montana Native program, and then they said, well, let's

749
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: let college students who have more than I think twelve

750
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: credits they can buy nonre So now Montana goes from

751
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 3: seventeen thousand non residents to over fifty thousand. So if

752
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: you live in a state like Montana where your legislature

753
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: tinkers with that, absolutely you feel crowding. But that's not

754
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: due to more hunters. That is due to your state

755
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 3: legislature and use, especially some of these critics sitting on

756
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 3: your ass when these issues were being debated in the legislature. So, yeah,

757
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: you can have difference. It's not a monolith of everything

758
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: is going on the same trend in every state. It's identical.

759
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: My state of Montana, we have had way more non

760
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: resident crowding. Our resident license sales have stayed flat for

761
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: the last twenty years, but our non resident sales have

762
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 3: more than tripled because we said, oh, non residents, you

763
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: no longer have to draw a cow out tag or

764
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: an antler list meal deer tag. I mean, just buy one.

765
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 3: Well be they'd get ten percent of those. And whether

766
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: it's someone at the trailhead or boots on the ground

767
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 3: because I have a cow elk tag or a bowl

768
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 3: olt tag, doesn't matter. It's still crowded, it's still more people.

769
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: So you got to get into it and look at

770
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 3: it a little. What would I say, with maybe the

771
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 3: intent of trying to understand it rather than to rationalize

772
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 3: what you've claimed is the problem all your life. And

773
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 3: my response very often is if you think crowding and

774
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 3: getting rid of people is the problem. Why don't you

775
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: raise your hand and you'd be the first person who

776
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: gets the hell out of here. Then under start solving

777
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: this problem, and they never raise their hand.

778
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: No, what's this all going to mean for the future

779
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: of wildlife game management at the state level? I mean,

780
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: there's there's already been changes with some states going to

781
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: different kinds of draws, some states raising prices, some states

782
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: lowering bag limits, some states. You know, there's all the

783
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: resident complaints, like people in Montana upset about non residents

784
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 2: coming in. But then there's also complaints from non residents saying, hey,

785
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: these are federal public lands. I shouldn't have to pay

786
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars and wait ten years to go hunt there.

787
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: Once there's all of this finger pointing and complaining from

788
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: all sides.

789
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: Where's this headed, Randy, Oh, it's not headed in a

790
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 3: good place, because we are and this is where I

791
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: when you ask me what our ten year curve is,

792
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: I think in the next five years we're going to

793
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: bottom out with this scar shitty mindset of fighting with

794
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: each other and fighting over it. If you're an If

795
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 3: I'm a non resident in Wyoming and I love hunting

796
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 3: pronghorn in Wyoming. As much as I love doing anything,

797
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: the best thing I could do is be there supporting

798
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 3: Wyoming residents to do what it takes on the landscape,

799
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: within their state legislature, within their elected officials, to do

800
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 3: things for habitat that increase prong horn numbers. I refuse

801
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 3: to see this resident non resident thing as we're in

802
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 3: two different camps and we should hate each other. We

803
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 3: are joined at the hip because if we have habitat,

804
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 3: we're going to have herds. If we have herds, we're

805
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 3: going to have tags. And we got to reverse that trend.

806
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 3: If we're going to just adopt this mindset that I'm

807
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: just going to fight for my little scrap and I'm

808
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 3: going to try exclude residents, or I'm going to try

809
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: exclude non residents, or I want to have some sophisticated

810
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 3: drocess tom. I love seeing prices increase because supposedly that

811
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 3: keeps other people out of the game. That I reject

812
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 3: that those are just little tricks that ignore the bigger

813
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 3: symptom or the cause of all these symptoms, that is

814
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 3: the herd numbers are shrinking. Other than out there's not

815
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 3: a Western big game species that is at a higher

816
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: population level today than when I was born. There's not

817
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 3: one of them that's at a higher population level today

818
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: than they were in two thousand. So yeah, you and

819
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 3: I we produce content, just like George Burd Grarnell used

820
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 3: to produce content when he had Forest and Stream magazine

821
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 3: in the late eighteen hundreds. And did people learn from that, yep,

822
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: just like people learn from us. Does that create more

823
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: demand for tags? It probably does. But I'm here to

824
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 3: create people who want to advocate for hunting. I want

825
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 3: them to have that experience. I want them to be

826
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: connected these public lands through a tangible experience that they've had.

827
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: I want them to see the benefit fits of habitat

828
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 3: and conservation and how it increases the herds. And I

829
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: can't expect them to sit on a couch in Florida

830
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 3: and somehow wish that and somehow they're going to become

831
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 3: an advocate for that. And there's not a single person

832
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 3: who will listen to this, who will watch this, who

833
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 3: was born instinctively with that knowledge. They got it from somewhere.

834
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 3: They may be redded in a magazine. They maybe belonged

835
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 3: to a rodden gun club, or someone took them as

836
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: a mentor and taught them all this stuff, whether it's

837
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 3: hunting not a state, whether it's how to hunt. No

838
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: one was born with that instinctively. So to somehow say

839
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 3: we're now going to be gatekeepers and keep all We're

840
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: going to pick and choose who gets the chance to

841
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: do that. No, we're going to use hunters, just like

842
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 3: the population in general has always used whatever tools of

843
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 3: communication are there to share information. And yeah, it gets

844
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 3: shared really fast in today's world, and it's readily available

845
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 3: and it's easy to get. And does that increase the

846
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: number of people who are interested in this? That? Possibly does?

847
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: Then probably does. But is that the problem. Is that

848
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: the problem with why we have fewer tags? No, not

849
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: at all. If we had double the number of tags,

850
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: do you think there'd be as much angst about Oh gee,

851
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 3: I didn't draw this year, but I'll probably draw next year.

852
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 3: Oh now, it's like I didn't draw this year and

853
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: I'm probably ain't gonna draw next year. Her numbers are

854
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: on the decline. Okay, what are you doing about it?

855
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 3: Are you volunteering for something, are you contributing to something?

856
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 3: Are you calling your congress people? Are you doing the

857
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 3: things that improve habitat? Because We can fight and argue

858
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 3: about this stuff all day long. Something that our predecessors

859
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 3: do is it all comes down to the land and

860
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 3: the habitat. You want more ducks in the sky, you

861
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 3: better have some wetlands.

862
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know this is not something that is

863
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: just just happening with hunted species either. We're seeing declines

864
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 2: across so many different species, many that are hunted, you know,

865
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: with the exception you mentioned, elk are doing pretty good

866
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: in many places. White tailed deer are doing great. They're

867
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: the you know, they're the rats of the big game world.

868
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: They're able to survive anywhere. But I mean turkeys, upland birds,

869
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 2: all the western big game species you mentioned. Caribou are plummeting,

870
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 2: Moose populations in many places plummeting. So much of our

871
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: wildlife heritage is not slowly disappearing. And to your point,

872
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 2: nobody will do real action, will truly engage unless they

873
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: have that connection. Nobody watches a nature documentary Netflix and

874
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: then changes their life because of it. Nobody watches something

875
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: on YouTube and just that one thing is enough to

876
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: flip them into an active advocate, engaged with their lawmakers

877
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: or getting out there on the ground doing something about

878
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: it that is very uniquely, something that is tied to

879
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: people that have a close, radical engagement with this thing.

880
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: So I'm with you, Randy. I think that the only

881
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: way we're going to win any of these things is

882
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 2: by putting out a hand to folks and saying, come

883
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: on out, see this stuff. It's amazing. It's yours to enjoy,

884
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 2: experience it, take care of it.

885
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: Yep. And if that means I don't draw my Colorado

886
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 3: Elk tag or deer tag, next year, some new person

887
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 3: who's interested in that ends up with it. But they

888
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 3: become a voice and they start doing the things necessary

889
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 3: to improve habitat, to improve access, to get this cycle

890
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 3: back to more meal there or more elk or whatever.

891
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: You know what, Fine by me.

892
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

893
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 3: And people are like, oh, you're full of crap. You

894
00:53:54,920 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: don't really mean that. I absolutely mean that. I just

895
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 3: we've been handed this is probably and this comes with age.

896
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: Mark.

897
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if I sound like an old grandpa crimudgin here,

898
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 3: But with age, I have realized every year more and

899
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 3: more what I was handed. What I was born as

900
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: an American. I didn't understand it when I was born.

901
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: I didn't understand it when I was twelve when I've

902
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 3: passed on our education. I didn't understand it. When I

903
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 3: got out of college at age twenty two, I started

904
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 3: learning it a little bit more, a little bit more,

905
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 3: a little bit more. Now I realize that everything I

906
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 3: have enjoyed in my life in the outdoors is because

907
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 3: people who came before me didn't really give two craps

908
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 3: if they upset somebody. They took seriously President Roosevelt's statement

909
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 3: that the wildlife and the habitat cannot speak for itself.

910
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: We must and we will. They live that. They established

911
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 3: the Duckstamp pro They established the National Wildlife Refuge Program

912
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 3: that now is being reviewed, and who knows what's going

913
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 3: to come of that. They put infrastructure in place for

914
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 3: the for Service so that we'd have public lands. All

915
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 3: of this came, We had the Pittman Robertson ac quick.

916
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 3: The list goes on and on and on of things

917
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: that our predecessors made hard decisions where it cost them

918
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 3: a little bit more money, or it cost them some opportunity.

919
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 3: But it was about that next generation, as Roosevelt would

920
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: call them, those still in the womb of time. And

921
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: the older I get, the more I understand how much

922
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 3: was handed to me, and this whole idea that we

923
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: don't have an obligation to that next generation, that somehow

924
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,879
Speaker 3: it's all about me and my chance of getting a tag.

925
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 3: And I got to you know, there's oh, there's four

926
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 3: people at the trail that had today instead of three.

927
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: I just that's that is not appreciative of what got

928
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 3: us here. It just is. I mean that we want

929
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: to talk about America's greatness and all the wonderful things

930
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 3: in this country, and I agree with that statement, but

931
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 3: within the hunting space and within the things that we

932
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 3: get to do on public lands, every bit of that

933
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: came because someone wasn't afraid to stand up. And I've

934
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 3: been lucky that in my life I've had some of

935
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 3: those people as mentors. You know, anyone who has ever

936
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 3: driven to Yellowstone Park from yellow from Livingstone, Montana to Gardner, Montana.

937
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 3: Friend of mine, Jim Poswitz, who's passed away recently. He

938
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: led a team of biologists who kept the Yellowstone River

939
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 3: from being damned what was called the Allensburg pinch point

940
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 3: just south of Livingstone. It would have flooded the entire

941
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 3: Partaradise Valley. And this was in the late seventies, right,

942
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: oil and bargoes, the energy crisis, all this. The idea was,

943
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 3: we'll flood that valley, we'll have a water supply, and

944
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 3: we are going to put electrical generating stations all the

945
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 3: way from Livingston to Billings and by the time the

946
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 3: Yellowstone River got to Billings, it would have been dewatered.

947
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 3: He got his team of scientists and biologists got that stopped,

948
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: and everybody was pissed at them. His department got dismantled.

949
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 3: Within Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. He's called an idiot,

950
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: an obstructionist, you know, a crazy guy. Is there a

951
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 3: person today, forty five years later who thinks it would

952
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 3: be a good idea to damn the Yellowstone River at Livingston,

953
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: Montana and flood it all the way up to Yankee

954
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 3: Jim Canyon and dewater the Yellowstone River by the time

955
00:57:53,720 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 3: it got to Billings. No. But my point is they

956
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 3: stood up and did the right thing for the wildlife,

957
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: for the wild places in the wild things, and they said,

958
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: you know what, maybe we're going to take a hit

959
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 3: here and there, but they had the support of the

960
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 3: people also, and that's what we got to do. And

961
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: I don't take that as just like, oh, well, that's great,

962
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 3: thank for doing that, Jim, I'm going fishing today, or

963
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 3: I'm going on today, hell with everyone else. To me

964
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: that if you are a hunter in America or an angler,

965
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: these are the type of legacy things that have been

966
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 3: handed to you. And I get it that. When I

967
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 3: was younger, I didn't grasp it. Yeah, I volunteered for

968
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 3: all these things because I grew up in a town

969
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: and in a family. We're volunteering with this part of

970
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: what you did. But I didn't. I didn't see it

971
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 3: from the bigger picture of Wow, no wonder, we have

972
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: such an abundance, No wonder, we have such an amazing

973
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 3: thing because generation after generation took the baton and they

974
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 3: worked towards the same thing, in the same thing, in

975
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 3: the same thing. And the question is for us in

976
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 3: our generation, are today are we going to do that?

977
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 3: Are we going to piss it down our leg and say, well,

978
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 3: appreciate you giving that to us, But now there's too

979
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 3: much work, It is too uncomfortable, too inconvenient to keep

980
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 3: that ball rolling. I don't I'm confident that that's not

981
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 3: how hunters are. Yeah, there's the vocal minority. There's the critics,

982
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 3: there's the whoever, But the core hunter American who wants

983
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 3: something better for their next generation are the people who

984
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 3: are going to show up. And that's why I'm so

985
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 3: optimistic when you asked me ten years from now, where

986
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 3: are we going to be, We're going to be coming

987
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 3: back this way because that's how hunters have done it,

988
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 3: that's how Americans have done it. And we might have

989
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 3: to go through some more bumps along the way, but

990
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 3: we're going to get back to habitat, going to get

991
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 3: back to building these herds, and that next generation who

992
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 3: comes after me, they're going to be the beneficiaries. And

993
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 3: I couldn't be happier.

994
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's amazing how we can feel in

995
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: this moment, you know, overwhelmed by the trajectory of so

996
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 2: many things, and wildlife populations and declined, and public lands

997
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: and even private land protections being slashed, clean water protections

998
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: being slashed, everything. But to your point, if you look

999
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: back in history, it's very easy to forget how relatively

1000
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: short a period of time ago it was that we

1001
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: were in a way worse situation than we are right now. Right,

1002
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 2: I mean, things were amazing, Yeah, you know, several hundred

1003
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: years ago, and then in the eighteenth century, things rapidly

1004
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: declined and we just kind of clear cut the nation's

1005
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: wildlife metaphorically speaking. And then we got to that late

1006
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds when there was this growing

1007
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 2: awareness as you mentioned with George Bird, Grennell and Roosevelt

1008
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: and Hornaday and so many others, and we said, whoa, whoa, whoa,

1009
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: tap the brakes. We got to do something different, and

1010
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 2: then we we righted the ship. And now we've been

1011
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: on this slow but steady not always slow, but significant

1012
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 2: increase and improvement. We've brought back white tail deer were

1013
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 2: nearly gone. Rady white tail deer were down. Yeah, you know,

1014
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: so so low of numbers, unbelievably, and we're up to

1015
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 2: thirty five million. There were maybe you know, tens of

1016
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,439
Speaker 2: thousands or hundreds of thousands left across the entire nation.

1017
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 2: Now thirty five million elk populations have been restored. I mean,

1018
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: so many different things that are amazing success stories that

1019
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: we did within the last one hundred years. But now

1020
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: all that's you know, back trending down for so many species,

1021
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 2: and we can look back there and say, hey, you know,

1022
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: there is a model for what to do and how

1023
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 2: to do it, and I think the model that I see,

1024
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 2: and you've alluded to this, but the model that I

1025
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 2: see and that I think the hunting and angling community

1026
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 2: epitomizes better than anyone. You know, there's many other folks

1027
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 2: in the environmental and conservation community over the last fifty

1028
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: hundred years that have done something, but the hundred and

1029
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: angling point portion of that, I think epitomize what kind

1030
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 2: of my growing theory is. And this is something I've

1031
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 2: been writing a ton about right now as I'm wrapping

1032
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 2: up my latest book, is that there's a difference between

1033
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: saying something and kind of like a like a passive

1034
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 2: environmentalism or conservation was like, oh, I care about this

1035
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 2: thing I'm posted on social media, And then there's this

1036
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: other thing that I think the hunting and fishing world

1037
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 2: has demonstrated, whether it be in the fifties and sixties

1038
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: with actual reintroduction efforts of turkeys or flying in sheep,

1039
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: or getting out and planting native grasslands or planting trees.

1040
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 2: It's it's so many different examples of it in the

1041
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 2: fishing world too, where people are out there rebuilding stream banks,

1042
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 2: or building beaver analogs or whatever. It's actually doing something

1043
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: active in concrete. Sometimes that's literally dirt in the hands,

1044
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 2: in the dirt on the ground, or sometimes it's showing

1045
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 2: up at the capitol or writing a handwritten letter and

1046
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 2: walking it to someone and talking to someone. But it's

1047
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 2: it's active, it is concrete. It is you know, no

1048
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,479
Speaker 2: longer performative. And I think hunters and anglers, as you said,

1049
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: have done this and now is this time that it's

1050
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: it's it's our time we have to do it again.

1051
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you look at the American population we are

1052
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,439
Speaker 3: We've always been across section of the American population. We've

1053
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 3: had you know, within our community, we have some differences,

1054
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: like you just pointed out there. But think about nine

1055
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 3: I think it was nineteen sixty nine. You live in

1056
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: the Great Lakes Country. The Cuyahoga River in Ohio started

1057
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 3: on fire. Yeah, because it was the dumping grounds for

1058
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 3: paint factories and oild refineries. And you tell that to

1059
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 3: people today, they're like a river started on fire, not

1060
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 3: that long ago. Yes, No, So I don't know if

1061
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 3: you've ever been to the Boundary Waters or Rainy Lake

1062
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: or the Rainy River or Lake of the Woods where

1063
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 3: I grew up. I was born in Badet, Minnesota, where

1064
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 3: the Rainy River dumps into Lake of the Woods. Grew

1065
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 3: up south of there in Big Falls. As a kid,

1066
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 3: we would go and fish the Rainy River when the

1067
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 3: walleyes would migrate up the Rainy River from Lake of

1068
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 3: the Woods to spawn. Well, there were upstream from that

1069
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 3: in International Falls, and for Francis, Ontario, there were multiple

1070
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 3: paper mills. There were all kinds of things. Cities were

1071
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 3: dumping their raw sewage in there. When in my lifetime

1072
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 3: I was a kid. You would go there and fish

1073
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 3: and you would see signs right at eye level. As

1074
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 3: you know, I'm seven years old. I finally learned to

1075
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 3: read by then, and you'd see these signs, do not

1076
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: eat these fish. Do not eat these fish. Warning, do

1077
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 3: not eat these fish. You would not cast your line

1078
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 3: out there unless you had a bob or because if

1079
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 3: your line and sinker hit the bottom, you'd reel in

1080
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 3: a string of pollution and snot and flam that you

1081
01:04:55,240 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 3: didn't even want to touch. That's in my lifetime past

1082
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 3: the Clean Water Act, and it got vetoed by President

1083
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: Nixon because well, this was gonna cost America so much money.

1084
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,959
Speaker 3: Congressover wrote his veto, and the goal of the Clean

1085
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 3: Water Act, if you want to summarize it, and was

1086
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 3: kind of the sales pitch at the time, was every

1087
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 3: water needs to be fishable and swimmable, because there's not

1088
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 3: an American alive today who is not within a half

1089
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 3: hour drive probably have a water back before the Clean

1090
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 3: Water Act that was not fishable and not swimmable. Lake

1091
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 3: Erie was not hardly fishable. There were warnings everywhere in

1092
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 3: the Great like do not eat these fish, do not

1093
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 3: eat these fish. But guess what Americans did. They told

1094
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 3: the President, we don't care that this is going to

1095
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 3: cost us a lot of money. We're going to retrofit

1096
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 3: every industry in this country that creates some sort of

1097
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: byproduct that's a pollutant, and yeah, we're going to see inflation,

1098
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 3: and yeah we're going to have to more. I guess

1099
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 3: what Americans did. They wanted their kids and grandkids to

1100
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 3: have fishable and swimmable waters. And that's what we have today.

1101
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 3: And so that's why I have all this faith in Americans.

1102
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 3: That we might have to go through a Cuyahoga River

1103
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 3: starting on fire. But there are events that are going

1104
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 3: to trigger us to say we aren't doing that, we

1105
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: aren't putting up with this anymore. And so I could

1106
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 3: give example after example. And I know I sound like

1107
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 3: some old guy, but I've lived it. My lifetime is

1108
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 3: not this big long arc of history. You know. I'm

1109
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 3: not Moses who lived over many hundreds of years. And

1110
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 3: so I want people to understand that, no matter what

1111
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 3: the challenge is, Americans, hunters and anglers have rows up

1112
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: and said we can fix this. We want better. It's

1113
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 3: always been about better and more for that next generation.

1114
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 3: And I think that Clean Water Act is just that's

1115
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,919
Speaker 3: a perfect example because so often we hear, oh, that's

1116
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 3: going to be expensive. Oh that's going to raise the

1117
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 3: price of whatever. Oh you know how much we're going

1118
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,439
Speaker 3: to have to pay more at the pump for our gas.

1119
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 3: If we got to accommodate meal there Well a lot

1120
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 3: of times that's not even true, but if it was,

1121
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 3: Americans have always said, Okay, I guess we got to

1122
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 3: pay an extra penny every time we gas up our vehicle.

1123
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 3: If that means that the meal deer and pronghorn are

1124
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 3: going to prosper in Wyoming, I'm good with that. Is

1125
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 3: what Americans have always said, we saw when we passed

1126
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 3: the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act, Americans said, yeah,

1127
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 3: let's suck it up, let's get it done. And I'm

1128
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 3: just confident by you know, maybe this ten year window

1129
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 3: that you asked me, maybe that's not the exact period,

1130
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 3: but by then we're going to be back to this

1131
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 3: new trend of saying, boy, we almost squandered an unbelievable

1132
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 3: gift that we had. Let's not do that.

1133
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 2: So I want to pivot a little bit to sort

1134
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 2: of an adjacent set of issues, but related. When we

1135
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 2: consider the future of hunting in America, what we've talked

1136
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 2: about so far is the future of the resources that

1137
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 2: we need as hunters. We need wildlife, we need wild places,

1138
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 2: we need clean air and clean water and access to

1139
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 2: those things. Then there's also this side of the question,

1140
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 2: which is we need the opportunities and the rights to

1141
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 2: do that. And this is very much related to the

1142
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 2: debate over should we have more hunters, should we introduce

1143
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 2: people to the field, should we be recruiting and retaining

1144
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: because all of that, of course influences our rights and

1145
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 2: opportunities politically. But I'm curious if you can talk about

1146
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 2: that when you look over the coming year to ten

1147
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 2: years and you consider the change in demographics that we've discussed,

1148
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,839
Speaker 2: what is all that going to mean for the future

1149
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: of hunting? Where you see that headed.

1150
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well, I live in a state where we

1151
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 3: passed a right to hunt as part of our country

1152
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 3: situtional amendment in I think it's two thousand and six,

1153
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,719
Speaker 3: So we have a constitutional right in Montana. But let's

1154
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 3: not kid ourselves. We really have a social license by

1155
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 3: society in general within your state or within your country

1156
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 3: of what's going to be allowed. We can pretend otherwise,

1157
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 3: but that that's really what it gets down to. So

1158
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 3: going back to all this AI data grinding that I

1159
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 3: did and that I got help with, when I population

1160
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 3: adjust those trends, it's really frightening. Most of those when

1161
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 3: you population adjust for them, that if we use one

1162
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 3: hundred as the baseline in twenty fifteen, by twenty twenty three,

1163
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 3: the last year we could find the complete data set,

1164
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 3: most of them are in the high eighties or low nineties.

1165
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,600
Speaker 3: That's nine years we've slid from. If you want to

1166
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: use those relative scales of one hundred people to eighty

1167
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 3: seven people or ninety two people so if and some

1168
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 3: people say, well, if we want to stay level with that,

1169
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 3: you know how many more hunters we're going to have

1170
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 3: to have in the field. I'm not here to say

1171
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 3: we've got to have more hunters that's going to keep

1172
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 3: up with population. What I am saying is that the

1173
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 3: percentage of hunters who are going to be advocates and

1174
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 3: speak up needs to stay high, needs to be more.

1175
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 3: We always need more people who will speak up and advocate.

1176
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 3: But there is a reality that if people are not

1177
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 3: exposed to hunting, maybe they only do it once, or

1178
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 3: maybe they go along with somebody and a person shoots

1179
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 3: a brace of pheasants and they get to enjoy a

1180
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 3: pheasant meal and they're like, Wow, I can see why

1181
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 3: you like hunting. That's that's amazing food. That's a great experience.

1182
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 3: We're if we think that we're going to protect ourselves

1183
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 3: and make a case for our social license to do

1184
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:06,520
Speaker 3: this from an ever shrinking number of people, we're kidding ourselves.

1185
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 3: We are kidding ourselves. If you want to look at

1186
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 3: this even further, you know this hunter number thing. I'm

1187
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 3: seven weeks If I had have been born seven weeks later,

1188
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 3: I would not be a baby boomer. I'm like the

1189
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 3: tail tail end of the baby boomers. But Seane Mahoney

1190
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:40,679
Speaker 3: told me one time he used an analogy. He said,

1191
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 3: you know, the hunting population in North America is kind

1192
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 3: of like a python. Let's use those pythons down in

1193
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 3: Florida right now. They found out that they eat a

1194
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 3: white tailed deer. And about fifty years ago, this python

1195
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 3: ate a white tailed deer that's slowly working its way

1196
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 3: through this python, and in the interim he's been eaten

1197
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 3: field nice. The baby boomers represent that big deer. Pretty soon,

1198
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 3: that python's is going to crap out that big deer.

1199
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 3: My generation is aging out way faster, way, way faster

1200
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 3: from hunting than what the new people are coming in.

1201
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 3: And the Council of Shooting and Hunting to advance shooting

1202
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 3: and hunting sports about seventeen eighteen years ago, came up

1203
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 3: with this idea called R three Recruit, Retain, Reactivate. Some

1204
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:40,520
Speaker 3: of the state agencies took that up. Between the agencies

1205
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 3: and some of these other councils, they've worked on that,

1206
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 3: they haven't they haven't been kept up. I don't want

1207
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 3: to discount the people who worked on that and the

1208
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 3: effort they put into it, but it really hasn't worked

1209
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 3: if you want to measure it by how many news

1210
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 3: hunters have been recruited to replace those who are dying

1211
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 3: and just aging out with health. So some people are

1212
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 3: probably listening to this and well, so you're telling me Newberg,

1213
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 3: in ten years, when you age out, all you baby

1214
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 3: boomers are going to be out of the way. Man,

1215
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 3: I'll be able to draw my tag Again. I'm not

1216
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: putting in that context. My point is when you have

1217
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 3: a group of people that represents this very large number

1218
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 3: that still buy hunting licenses. Right, my uncle Larry's seventy eight,

1219
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 3: he's fighting all kinds of health issues. He buys a license,

1220
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 3: but he doesn't hunt. So you have a lot of

1221
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 3: baby boomers who are buying a license who are not

1222
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 3: the boots out there in the ground that you're competing against.

1223
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 3: Pretty Soon, they're going to be gone. Their financial contribution

1224
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 3: to nonprofit groups, their contributions to buying licenses are going

1225
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 3: to be gone, their equipment and excise taxes are going

1226
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 3: to be gone, and more importantly, their political clout is

1227
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:08,639
Speaker 3: going to be gone. So you tell me how well

1228
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 3: that python that I used in my metaphor analogy, there

1229
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 3: is going to live eating field mice when it really

1230
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 3: needs to eat rabbits and white tailed deer. That is

1231
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 3: the reality of the recruitment slash, whatever you want to

1232
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 3: call it, the replacement of hunters in America. Right now,

1233
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 3: we're feeling the pressures from this big bubble that's not

1234
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 3: quite out of the snake, but it's going to be

1235
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 3: out of there in ten years. I mean, I'd love

1236
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 3: to think that I'm going to be hunting elk and

1237
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 3: cheap toll. I'm ninety, but I can tell you right now,

1238
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 3: mark the last ten years, it felt like I dragged

1239
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 3: an anchor around the hill. So I'm an age out

1240
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: and so all this stuff that we hear to me,

1241
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 3: it's very very short sighted. Don't discount the fact that

1242
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 3: people feel pressure, feel competition for tags. That we all do, right,

1243
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 3: every one of us do. But there's reasons for why

1244
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 3: it's happening, and there are much larger trends that endanger

1245
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 3: the future of hunting and conservation that I just tune

1246
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 3: that stuff out. I can't again. I go back to

1247
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 3: it be in this scarcity mindset and I just can't

1248
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 3: get there.

1249
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 2: So related to that, one of the you know, one

1250
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 2: of the big worries about these changing demographics is that

1251
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 2: as there's a smaller percentage of hunters as part of

1252
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:42,839
Speaker 2: the greater American population, there's gonna be less political support

1253
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,799
Speaker 2: for it. And we've seen over the last five years,

1254
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 2: ten years, these you know, increasing attempts to limit hunting opportunities,

1255
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: to shut down a bear season or shut down houndsman

1256
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 2: or shut down mountain lion hunting or bobcat hunting or

1257
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 2: whatever might be. And the concern is always like, well,

1258
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 2: even if you don't hunt mountain lions, this is a chip,

1259
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 2: This is a chip in the wall that could grow

1260
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 2: and grow and grow, especially as demographics change. And that

1261
01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 2: seems to be a very real risk if we don't

1262
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 2: change the demographics, if we don't do what you're saying.

1263
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: But I'm curious if all of the things we talked

1264
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 2: about might be tied together, and that if we were

1265
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,520
Speaker 2: to have an abundance mindset and do what you're describing

1266
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 2: and welcoming new people and growing ranks of advocates at least,

1267
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 2: and if we were to step up and really showcase

1268
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 2: the way that the hunting and angling community are true

1269
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 2: conservationists are improving the resource are trying to lead to

1270
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 2: a world of abundance. Is there a future in which,

1271
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 2: even if we can't keep up with population growth, as

1272
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 2: you said, might we be able to change that opportunity

1273
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 2: for our social license so that we can change how

1274
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 2: the rest of that growing population sees us, if they

1275
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: see us not as these you know, bloodthirsty bamby killers,

1276
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 2: but instead as hey, wow, you know, I continue to

1277
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 2: see this hunting fishing crowd, and man, they keep on

1278
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 2: stepping up and saying, Hey, we want to protect wildlife. Hey,

1279
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 2: we want to protect public lands. Hey we're doing great

1280
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 2: stuff on our private lands that are good for butterflies

1281
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,719
Speaker 2: and bugs and bunnies and all this other stuff too.

1282
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 2: In ten years, maybe could we change it so that

1283
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 2: we're still trying to introduce new people, but at the

1284
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: same time folks like, hey, that hunting and fishing crowd,

1285
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 2: they're not so bad. Let's let them continue doing their

1286
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 2: thing because it's actually good.

1287
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, we can do that. We just got to

1288
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 3: be good storytellers about it. And I don't mean by

1289
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 3: that we make up the story. We have the most

1290
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 3: unbelievable story there is to tell, and when you get

1291
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 3: a chance to tell these kind of stories to people

1292
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 3: who aren't aware of them because they haven't been exposed

1293
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 3: to hunting and fishing, They're like, WHOA, I didn't know that.

1294
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 3: Like I look at all the stuff that happened last summer, right,

1295
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 3: rock climbers and mountain bikers and dog walkers are getting

1296
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 3: a hold of me, Like, man, thanks for you guys

1297
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,759
Speaker 3: are just you're you're taking no prisoners on the public

1298
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 3: land thing. Thank you, thank you. I'm like, well, you know,

1299
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 3: that's kind of where I grew up, that's what I

1300
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 3: lived for. That's where I go get my food. And

1301
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 3: they're like, huh, I get it. I get it. So

1302
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 3: we have every one of these that we view as

1303
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 3: a threat, I've view as an opportunity. Everything that someone

1304
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 3: sees as a risk, I see as a possibility. So

1305
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 3: your question of can we change that, Oh, I'm one

1306
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 3: hundred percent convinced. You know, we got to be smart,

1307
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 3: we got to be strategic. We got to kind of

1308
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 3: discipline ourselves so that other people don't discipline us. And

1309
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 3: we just have too much to offer, and we have

1310
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 3: way too much to contribute, and we have such a

1311
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 3: track record that shows what we've been able to do.

1312
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 3: We just got to tell that story.

1313
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:12,720
Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that we might have an opportunity with

1314
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty six midterm elections and Congress. You mentioned

1315
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 2: earlier that Congress is really what could put a stop

1316
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 2: to some of these bigger picture things, trends that are

1317
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 2: impacting you know, the slashes to budgets and management and

1318
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 2: protections for public lands and private lands. I think really

1319
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 2: key thing to remember is that the stuff that's happening

1320
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 2: right now is not just impacting public lands. There are

1321
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,759
Speaker 2: tons of things that are impacting dollars going to private

1322
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 2: land projects, dollars and protections that protect your water on

1323
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 2: your private land, the wetland on your private land, all

1324
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 2: of this. So that's public and private. So that said,

1325
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 2: there's an election here in twenty six coming up. Do

1326
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 2: you see how do you see us? If so, let

1327
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 2: me take the one step back. How can hunters and

1328
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 2: anglers make conservation an actual issue in the twenty twenty

1329
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 2: six midterm elections in such a way that folks are

1330
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 2: arguing over solutions on both sides to these challenges? Is

1331
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 2: that a realistic desire and what's the roadmap to making

1332
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 2: that happen over the next you know, ten months, ten

1333
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 2: eleven months.

1334
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's realistic, but it's difficult, right because we have

1335
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 3: nationalized our elections. Right does anyone in your part of

1336
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 3: the world subscribe to the local newspaper anymore?

1337
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:43,440
Speaker 2: No?

1338
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 3: No, why because they get all their all their stuff

1339
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 3: comes nationally. So we as hunters can fall into that

1340
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 3: trap of well, let's talk about taxes, let's talk about

1341
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 3: you know, whatever the national issues are, and so we

1342
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 3: end up voting for people who who we haven't even

1343
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:05,560
Speaker 3: asked them what their issue is about in our backyard.

1344
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 3: So I don't care who someone votes for, it makes it.

1345
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 3: I want you to vote, and I want you to

1346
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 3: vote your values. But your values usually aren't reflected in

1347
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 3: this whole debate, and all this money spent of framing

1348
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,879
Speaker 3: everything as this side or that side on national issues.

1349
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 3: Vote the issues that matter to you, and vote the

1350
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 3: issues that are important in your backyard, and you will

1351
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 3: get somebody who's going to listen to you. Don't let

1352
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 3: the two big party machines pick your candidate for you.

1353
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 3: And where a lot of that happens is in the primaries.

1354
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 3: So everyone is looking at November. A lot of these

1355
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 3: primaries are happening in February, March, April, May, June. That's

1356
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 3: where you can pick a candidate who's listening to you.

1357
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 3: Don't discount that, don't overlook that. And regardless of what

1358
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 3: the outcome of this election is, the real issue is

1359
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:11,679
Speaker 3: not who you voted well. The issue is voted for

1360
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 3: whoever represented the values that you have across whatever however

1361
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 3: you prioritize us. That is not the end of being

1362
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 3: an American. You don't become an American involved in your

1363
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 3: government once every two years or once every four years.

1364
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,639
Speaker 3: Whoever that person is. You have to stay in contact

1365
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 3: with them and their staff. You have to hold them accountable.

1366
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 3: And that's what we did last summer, held them accountable.

1367
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 3: So I don't know if the the midterm elections are

1368
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 3: going to change anything. Now you read this poll, it's like,

1369
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 3: oh boy, history does say then no matter who's been

1370
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 3: the president, they've really struggled. Their party struggles with the

1371
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 3: midterms because Americans kind of like divided government, whether whether

1372
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 3: we want to admit it or not. We like the

1373
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:07,200
Speaker 3: difficulty and the slowness that comes with divided government. It

1374
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 3: makes us do one of those great American things called

1375
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 3: compromise when they have divided government. So if you look

1376
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 3: at history the midterms, say it's going to be difficult

1377
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 3: for the current administration to maintain their power in a

1378
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 3: midterm election. Maybe it will, maybe it will, maybe it won't.

1379
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, but whatever it is, Participate in your primaries,

1380
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 3: make sure you vote, vote your priorities, and once that's done,

1381
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 3: don't think that that's the end of your duty as

1382
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 3: a citizen. Stay in touch with these people, let them

1383
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 3: know when they do good things for wildlife and conservation

1384
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 3: and access. And sometimes that'll be someone you didn't vote

1385
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 3: for who voted well and did a good thing. Don't

1386
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 3: be afraid to give them a thank you. Just because

1387
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:55,680
Speaker 3: you didn't vote for him, doesn't mean that they're the

1388
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 3: you know, the anti Christ somebody you know, media might

1389
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 3: want to make us think that way. And if you

1390
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 3: voted for somebody, don't think that that person has all

1391
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 3: the good ideas. Because sometimes the people I vote for

1392
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 3: have some really dumb ideas. I'm like, what the hell

1393
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 3: are you thinking? I call them up, I'm like, hey,

1394
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 3: this is not good. Yeah, So I well, I also

1395
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 3: think it just if it's if it's if it's on

1396
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 3: your priority list, hunting and fishing, conservation, clean air, clean water,

1397
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 3: you know, access, Make it your priority all the time. No,

1398
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 3: not just every once in a while. Yeah.

1399
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 2: And I think just as important as placing that ultimate vote,

1400
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 2: regardless of who you vote for, I think it's just

1401
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 2: as important to almost call up each party, each each

1402
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 2: candidate's office and tell them, hey, if you want my vote,

1403
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 2: you better be good on this than this and this,

1404
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 2: and then after whoever wins, whether you voted them or not, hey,

1405
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 2: if you want my support the next time around, in

1406
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 2: my folks, my people, my community, you better be good

1407
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 2: on X, Y and Z. And if all of us

1408
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 2: were doing that and giving those phone calls to both sides,

1409
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 2: both candidates or in the primary when they're trying to

1410
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 2: choose who the general election candidate will be, if we

1411
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 2: continually emphasize, hey, this stuff matters to our community, this stuff.

1412
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: If you want my vote, here's what you gotta do.

1413
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 2: If we did that enough, if we did that consistently enough,

1414
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 2: you would find more folks on both sides of the

1415
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 2: isle eventually realizing well, I better be good on this

1416
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 2: because I want to get elected.

1417
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right. Montana has the highest hunting participation of

1418
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 3: every state in the country in Montana in our public elections,

1419
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 3: I don't care what side of the isle you're on.

1420
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 3: You just about dislocate your shoulder trying to raise your

1421
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 3: hand to say I'm going to be the public land person.

1422
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying every state's like Montana, but the

1423
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 3: point is there's some correlation to how much hunting and

1424
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 3: fishing there is in Montana. Have a priority public lands

1425
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 3: and access are to our elected leaders. Right. You look

1426
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 3: at last summer who set up the back wall of

1427
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:17,440
Speaker 3: dead on arrival was a Montana delegation who are all Republicans.

1428
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 3: They told Mike Lee in their own party end a

1429
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 3: story why because hunters and anglers in Montana have a

1430
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 3: lot of say, and you could have a lot of

1431
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 3: say in your state. Also, it's getting organized, it's being persistent,

1432
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 3: being professional, and being informed and just showing up and

1433
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 3: you will have that same impact. I'm not saying that

1434
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 3: as Montana's got it all figured out, but there's a

1435
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 3: correlation there between the amount of outdoor activity that Montana

1436
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 3: citizens partake in and how that moves these issues up

1437
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 3: our priority list, Which kind of gets back to your

1438
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 3: earlier point of the more people that advocate for this,

1439
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 3: the better. If that means okay, more people are out

1440
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 3: doing it, who am I to tell them not to

1441
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 3: do it? You know, first time I ever showed up

1442
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 3: at a fishing access side, or I ever showed up

1443
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 3: at a trailhead, I just I crowded somebody. I did. Now,

1444
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 3: And all the critics who complain about too much crowding

1445
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 3: and all the reasons for it, guess what. The first

1446
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 3: time they showed up somewhere, they crowded somebody. So all

1447
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 3: this is tied together. We need even if hunter and

1448
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 3: angler numbers stay the same or decline slightly, the real

1449
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:42,160
Speaker 3: issue is we got to do what our predecessors did.

1450
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:45,600
Speaker 3: We got to say this is our responsibility, this is

1451
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 3: our job. This comes with this. This isn't just buying

1452
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 3: a hunting license. If you say you're a hunter, you

1453
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 3: are raising your hand and saying I'm going to do

1454
01:27:55,880 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 3: a lot more than just buy a license. That that's

1455
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:04,759
Speaker 3: purely something that's required by law. Yeah, your excise taxes

1456
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 3: are required by law. Our predecessor did way more than

1457
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 3: what was just statutorily required. And that's why we have

1458
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 3: what we have today. And that's why going back to

1459
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:20,639
Speaker 3: your now your request at twenty thirty six, that's why

1460
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 3: in twenty thirty six we're gonna have more than we

1461
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 3: have today.

1462
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 2: So Randy, one last question. Can you share with us

1463
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:35,479
Speaker 2: one specific action we can take in this next week

1464
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 2: and one larger action we can undertake over the next

1465
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: twelve months that will help us each do our part

1466
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: in reaching that better future for hunting in twenty thirty six,

1467
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 2: this week and this year. What would do your two

1468
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:52,440
Speaker 2: action atters?

1469
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, this week, find some activity that's going on

1470
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,920
Speaker 3: in your backyard. By backyard, I mean within your area

1471
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 3: that you hunter, fish, or travel, and weigh in on it,

1472
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 3: whether it's a state action, whether it's a federal action whatever.

1473
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 3: If you want to get a hold of the BLM

1474
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 3: and tell them about the thing I talked about, the

1475
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:16,759
Speaker 3: Wyoming militia or court, migration court or and winter range.

1476
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 3: But I mean, these are things that you can do

1477
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 3: faster than the amount of time it takes you to

1478
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 3: read a thread of posts on a Facebook feed. Yeah right,

1479
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 3: So do that and in the next twelve months, make

1480
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 3: it a point to be in contact with your elected officials.

1481
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 3: I don't care if it's your county commissioner. I don't

1482
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 3: care if it's your state legislator, your governor, or your

1483
01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 3: people in DC. Those people all that kind of works

1484
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 3: its way up right, your county commissioner. If they hear

1485
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of things about a problem that's going

1486
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 3: on in their area and they call their congress person, Hey,

1487
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 3: out in your district here, we got this issue. That

1488
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:04,599
Speaker 3: congress person's going to put a staffer on that issue.

1489
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 3: But it's all about communication. They don't look you up

1490
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 3: in the phone book and randomly survey every voter and say, hey,

1491
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 3: what's on your mind today? Right, we gotta take that step.

1492
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 3: So in the next twelve months, take that step, whether

1493
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 3: it's a candidate or whether it's someone who actually holds

1494
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 3: off of be polite, be professional, be informed, and let

1495
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 3: them know that this is one of your priority issues

1496
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 3: and you want them to represent your your position on it.

1497
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 2: There we go.

1498
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 3: Ready, make it a point to do that once a month.

1499
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:45,639
Speaker 3: Do that once a month in America will be We'll

1500
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 3: have this problem lecked.

1501
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna follow your advice. I'm

1502
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 2: gonna do the very best I can. Randy, I'll be

1503
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:54,400
Speaker 2: right there with you. Along with a whole bunch of

1504
01:30:54,400 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 2: other folks listening to this. I'm sure. I as always,

1505
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:01,719
Speaker 2: I really appreciate your leadership on this, and you're doing

1506
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 2: so much with your platforms to teach and to inspire

1507
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:08,760
Speaker 2: folks on similar you know, on these same topics and

1508
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 2: similar can you can you just remind our listeners here

1509
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 2: where they can find everything else that you're putting out

1510
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 2: there into the world.

1511
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I have social media platforms, but I don't

1512
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 3: know how to use them, so you can find me

1513
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 3: on social media Instagram and Facebook. I think it's Randy

1514
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 3: Nebergh Hunter. I have people who do that because I

1515
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 3: don't know how to do it. I have a YouTube channel,

1516
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 3: frush Tracks, really large YouTube channel, and then I do

1517
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 3: two podcasts. Thank you for inviting me, Mark, But I

1518
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 3: have the hunt Talk radio podcast and the help Talk podcast,

1519
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 3: and those are probably the places to find me if

1520
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 3: you really want to see me interacting with audiences. I

1521
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:54,400
Speaker 3: have a big forum called the hunt Talk dot com

1522
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 3: hunting forum. It's about conservation and public land issues. It's

1523
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 3: a different subset out of the hunting community. But we

1524
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 3: go out there and we argue with each other and

1525
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 3: then we all are friends because hey, we got to

1526
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 3: solve this problem. And so a bunch of us who

1527
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 3: we might argue about, you know, who's doing this or

1528
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:15,880
Speaker 3: who's doing that, But when a tax come to you

1529
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:18,600
Speaker 3: know the things we love where we all kiss and

1530
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,840
Speaker 3: makeup and we're pretty effective for uce there. But those

1531
01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:24,680
Speaker 3: are the places that people can reach me. And I

1532
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 3: just want to say, Mark, you and I have known

1533
01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 3: each other for quite a while now, we've spent some

1534
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 3: time on the hill together, the hill in Washington, d C.

1535
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:38,040
Speaker 3: But also the hill hunt bears and stuff. You're doing

1536
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 3: great stuff. I just I am so thankful that there

1537
01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 3: are people like you and others who have that interest

1538
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 3: in this and thanks for doing it. Keep at it.

1539
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 3: Someday you'll be old like me and some young guy

1540
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 3: will be asking you these same questions and'll be like, well,

1541
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 3: I think Newburgh said this back in twenty twenties. Now

1542
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,720
Speaker 3: you're right, you're making a big difference, and keep at it.

1543
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 2: Appreciate you well, thank you, ry all the same right

1544
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 2: back at you, and let's make a point to have

1545
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:17,559
Speaker 2: another conversation like this discussing and celebrating the wins much

1546
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 2: sooner than five years from now. Let's make it sooner. Absolutely,

1547
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 2: thank you, and that's going to do it for us today.

1548
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:31,560
Speaker 2: I appreciate you joining me for this special one thousandth

1549
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 2: episode of the Wired to Hunt podcast. It's been a

1550
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 2: heck of a ride and I'm just so appreciative for

1551
01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:42,559
Speaker 2: this opportunity, for this platform, for all of you who

1552
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 2: have listened over the years, and I thank you for

1553
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 2: that time and attention. So hope this episode was one

1554
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:52,880
Speaker 2: that filled you with inspiration and the desire to get

1555
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 2: to work, just as it did for me, and I

1556
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 2: hope you will join me in this next phase of

1557
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:00,679
Speaker 2: my career as the Director of Conservation. As we get

1558
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:05,640
Speaker 2: to work making good things happen for deer, deer hunters

1559
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:10,600
Speaker 2: and hunters of all types, anglers, fish, wild places, waters,

1560
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:12,639
Speaker 2: and everything in between. It's gonna be a lot of fun,

1561
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:14,640
Speaker 2: it's going to be important work, and I thank you

1562
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:16,519
Speaker 2: for being a part of it. So until next time,

1563
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 2: stay Wired to Hunt.