1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's get a big shout out to 4 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: Max stops saying whoop, whoop, whooping it up too much. 6 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: I feel like you guys are jumping on the intro. 7 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: No jumping. 8 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: What do you mean We're bouncing and you see me 9 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: doing my karate moves. I'm just trying to get pumped. 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: I thought the mat cool moves. Max is getting whoops. 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: Ben's got his representing the Brown and acl hat on. 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: You guys know about the Brown, not me, the ups. 13 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: You were Noel Bro, that's me. I am Noel brown Man. 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: Not to be confused with ups, though it happens more 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 2: than you'd think. 16 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Is that true? 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 3: True? Always like where's my package, dude, I'm. 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: Like, I'm not UPS, I'm Nol Brown And they're like, 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: I'm so confused? 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: Are you FedEx? And you're liked. 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 2: Some people only know how to relate to the world 23 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 2: in terms of delivery services, and I really fity those people, frankly, 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: but I also have empathy for them. 25 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, empathy is important. 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: Uh. 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: This is also a great entry into a conversation we're 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: going to have today about monarchies and how sometimes people 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: at the top might have a little bit of an ego. Yes, 30 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: speaking of well adjusted folks, my name is Ben Bole 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: and yeah, and your name is ridiculous historian. Yes, you 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: were speaking to the individual you out there there, And 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: speaking of empathy, why don't you have a little for 34 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: us and the show and leave us a five star 35 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts Because that would be cool and 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: it makes us happy, and it keeps the show in 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: a discoverable form so people can find it, and it 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: makes our bosses like us better, so do us as solid. 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: Maybe if we get some really fun ones up there, 40 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: we'll like read them on the show. 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: Hey. Also, guys, I don't know if we're going to 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: keep this on air, but we're not joking in our 43 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: shows when we say our bosses will check in with us. 44 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: I wrote to the King of Podcasting and see the 45 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: King of Cartoons as well well. He definitely visits Berning Man. 46 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 3: I believe the Burning Man is going on as we speak. 47 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: Wrote to the guy and asked him if he had 48 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: any advice about getting a pilot's license. 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: Because, of course the King of podcasting has a pilot's license. Yes, yeah, 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: we are, of course talking about our benevolent Lord, Robert 51 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: Pitchman Esquire, who's actually really cool dude. 52 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 3: Definitely. 53 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: We both met him in person a couple of times, 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 2: and he's not nearly as scary as one might think 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: a king of a thing as huge as podcasting might be. 56 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: We are, in fact talking today about cabbages and kings 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: and even queens. 58 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: In fact, that's mainly what we're on about today. 59 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: Could you open with this quote the Max found us 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,279 Speaker 1: from King James the sixth. 61 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: M hm, the beloved King James the sixth quote unquote. 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: Sure, he sums it up thusly, the state of monarchy 63 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: is the supremest thing upon earth. 64 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: He seems to be a fan, for. 65 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: Kings are not only God's lieutenants upon earth and sits 66 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: upon God's throne, but even by God himself they are 67 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: called gods. 68 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: King James, how could you possibly know that? 69 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: All? 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: Right? This is the Bible king, right, Yeah, this is the. 71 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: Guy who looked at an ancient religion by this point 72 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: in his life and said, I have some notes. 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, I could do better to get even more into 74 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 5: the weeds about how where James was. James was Scottish, 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 5: so he was Catholic, and so everyone thought that he 76 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 5: was going to bring back Catholicism after Henry Yeth and 77 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 5: gotten rid of Catholicism. But he's like, he actually, wait, 78 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 5: there's a religion I could put my name on. 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: Cool, I'll have that please. 80 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 5: And he was so unpopular that his son, who carried 81 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 5: on his legend, got beheaded. 82 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, on purpose, on purpose, totally. Well. 83 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: The funny thing is, though, what that quote might belie 84 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: is that today we're actually talking to some degree about 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: a benevolent monarch, relatively speaking, you know, one who had 86 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: somewhat more of a measured approach to ruling. 87 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, agreed. We're doing a bit of a 88 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: bait and switch with noble intent. There was, around the 89 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: same time our buddy Jimmy was ruling his throne, there 90 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: was another person, another monarch, female Christina, described as a 91 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: colorful figure and a subject of fascination by the Library 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: of Congress. Let's go to Sweden. We'll find that Queen 93 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: Christina was born in December of sixteen, twenty six. And 94 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: just so you know, folks, back in the sixteen hundreds, 95 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: in every part of Europe it sort of sucked to 96 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: be a woman. 97 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: Imagine that you're saying people weren't treating women with the 98 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: utmost respect and chivalry and moral integrity. 99 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 3: Perish the thought. I'll tell you what's funny. 100 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: It's almost even indicated to some degree by the way 101 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: this person is named in history. You know, usually when 102 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 2: you see king's name, they have like a house attached 103 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: to their name, or they have like you know, it's 104 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: like front and center. But when we see Christina written about, 105 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: she's just Christina of Sweden, which is kind of badass 106 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: in a way, but also makes you wonder there was 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: that intentional as to not connect a woman to a 108 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: great house because she was a member of the House 109 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: of Vasa. But you don't really see that in the 110 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: reporting in the historical records very much. But you are right, 111 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: she was highly educated. Ben she received many of the 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: benefits that only a male heir we get. But since 113 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: she wasn't only child, she was the only option, and 114 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: it was determined that she would one day rule Sweden. 115 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: So she became quite enlightened, let us say, from a 116 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 2: very early age through studies of the arts and politics 117 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: and poetry and philosophy and all of that. She had 118 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: some pretty big names in her tutorial Bullpen and her motto, 119 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: in fact, was pretty awesome. It kind of applies today, 120 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: or I wish it would, maybe more so, wisdom supports 121 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: the nation. 122 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: This amazing character did something that many monarchs back then 123 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: and indeed today, would find ridiculous. She decided to walk 124 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: away from power. Now, how did this happen? To understand that, 125 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: we got to learn a little bit more about this monarch. 126 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: She's the daughter of King Gustav second Adolph and Maria 127 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: Eleanora of Brandenburg. This name will sound familiar because we 128 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: mentioned Eleanora in a previous episode not too long ago. 129 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: Turn your mind in your podcast browser to April of 130 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, the year of our Lord. Sadly, though, 131 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: Christina did lose her father at a very young age, 132 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 2: and Britannica had this to say about that sad event. 133 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: After her father died in the Battle of Lutzen, Christina, 134 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: his only heir, became Queen elect before the age of six. 135 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: By his order. 136 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: She was educated as a prince with the learned theologian 137 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: Johannes Mathai as her tutor, hopefully getting that right. M 138 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: A T T h Iae. I'm thinking Matthi is probably right. 139 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: Five regents, headed by the Chancellor Axel Oxenstierna, governed the country. 140 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: We got another real fun name coming up. Man, then 141 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you give a role too in the 142 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: old pronunciation hole. 143 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: Now, this is going to be one of the points 144 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: in the show where I gently, diplomatically with great affection, 145 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: roastar buddy Max. 146 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 5: Max, you get the joke I wrote, right, Yes. 147 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: I get the joke such that I am requiring you 148 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: to explain it on air. There are millions of people listening. 149 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: They want to know why you, out of all the 150 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: words you could have written, you said our Christina was 151 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: an intellectual person and you, out of all the words 152 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: you could have used, chose this one. 153 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 5: Was it a clock bisc Vieah? Yeah, So for for 154 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 5: those who are wondering, if you type in Swedish cookie 155 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 5: into Google, this is the first one that comes up. 156 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 5: So she's she's a smart cookie is what I wrote. 157 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 5: But she's an intellectual. Whatever this word. 158 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: Is, I don't want to offend anyone, but I would 159 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: conjecture that it's it's c h O, K L A, 160 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: D B I, S k v I e R. And 161 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: it's funny because, like in a lot of I guess 162 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 2: European languages, you have sort of similar sounding words like 163 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: struggle is chocolate and some form of biscuit is a cookie. 164 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking this means chocolate cookie. I'm just guessing. 165 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: But smart cookie is a joke, right, like a masterful 166 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: macarn or macaroon. 167 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 2: I love, but I do feel like this particular word 168 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: might imply it is of the smart chocolate variety. 169 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 5: I believe you are correct. Yes, none of this matters 170 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 5: in the story, but I have to put it in. 171 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: It's okay. 172 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: I thought it was good. 173 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 3: It's a fun word. It's a fun word to say, 174 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 3: and I think we all did our best. 175 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: But she was indeed that she was very, very bright, 176 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: and that was bolstered by the fact that she was 177 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: surrounded by the most high quality of tutors. 178 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, she had opportunities that would not be available to 179 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: most other people in Northern Europe at the time. If 180 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: you go to her biography in King's College, you will 181 00:10:55,040 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: find that Christina was or ascended to her thrown in 182 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: sixteen forty four. She opposed contemporary political powers, and she 183 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: did so against the advice of her keepers. There were 184 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of people always saying, you know, there's always 185 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: some version of Henry Kissinger, right, especially the Heights of Power. 186 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: So there were a lot of folks saying, oh, look 187 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: at this, it's a chick. We will tell them what 188 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: to do in r puppets, Yes, right, and she said, nah, nah. 189 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go my own way, right Ben, you know, 190 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: and it's his history. We do always see those kind 191 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 2: of toxic whisperer type figures. To take it to fiction, 192 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: which is often inspired by history and Lord of the Rings, 193 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 2: you have the Grima worm tongue character that's sort of 194 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 2: like whispering evil deeds into the king's ear, you know, 195 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: who is of course under an evil spell by the 196 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: White wizard Sorrowmon. But in a Game of Thrones you 197 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: might have a character, for example, like little Finger. Do 198 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: you do you see Kissinger. I'm to take it aside 199 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: and have this Kissinger corner here. Do you see him 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: as that kind of figure sort of this sort of 201 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 2: like toxic power behind the throne, kind of like whispering, 202 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: you know, sweet nothings into the ruler's ears. 203 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 3: And like pulling strings from behind the scenes. 204 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm met of once. I don't think he would describe 205 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: himself as toxic. I know he wouldn't describe himself as ToxS. 206 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: But we are we are talking history here. 207 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: History seems to definitely describe him as toxic, as do 208 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 2: you quite often when you bring him up. 209 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, terrible guy. 210 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: No, I'm with you, man, but I'm just saying I'm 211 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 2: historically speaking, Like, you see these types of figures all 212 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: the time, and Christina wasn't having it. You know, you 213 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: would think that because of her gender, that it would 214 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: be really easy for her to be manipulated, simply because 215 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: it was just kind of the way women were taught 216 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: to behave to be docile, you know, to defer to 217 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: the will of men. But because she was so highly educated, 218 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: and it doesn't seem like her education was like censored 219 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: or you know, compartmentalized, she was armed with some serious 220 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: power in the form of a very sharp intellect. 221 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was a consummate politician. She was able 222 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: to navigate very difficult things, especially in a tense environment, 223 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: and she ran into financial issues with with her kingdom. 224 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: But she did also prevent a couple of things that 225 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: would have been for these people at this time on 226 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: the level of a world war. She she was the 227 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: kind of person who, to your point, Noel, the kind 228 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: of person who considered being a monarch. She thought of 229 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: it like it was her day job. Her main thing 230 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: was learning more about the world in which she lived. 231 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: She got up at five am roughly every morning. She 232 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: would find people that she had heard about or folks 233 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: that wrote things that interested her, and she would say, 234 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: come hang out, Oh what's your name? Take heartes? Is 235 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: it okay if I call you Renee? 236 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: I also think, and I also am, and she certainly 237 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: was ben I think another thing that we see throughout 238 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: history is that and actually cribbing this a little bit 239 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: from the season finale of the House of the Dragon. 240 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: But those who seek power and thirst for it are 241 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: often the ones that deserve it and are capable of 242 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: wielding it the least. So someone like Christina, who kind 243 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: of has it foisted upon her because there's no other options. 244 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 2: She isn't someone who was just craving that power, and 245 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: therefore she handled it with an appropriate amount of respect 246 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: and deference. And she wanted to do good, I think, 247 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: and to rule in a magnanimous way, and I. 248 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 3: Think it's pretty rare. 249 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: I think, as we've indicated already, that this is the 250 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: attitude taken on by a monarch who so often are 251 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: just entitled monstrosities. 252 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, ooh, entitled monstrosities. That's pretty good. 253 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: I come out with a good one every now and again. 254 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: But Ben, what you say, we're approaching something resembling a 255 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: world war. 256 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: This doesn't sound good. 257 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: No, she navigated and de escalated geopolitical tensions of the 258 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: time that could have led to kinetic war in a 259 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: very bad way. As a matter of fact, the ability 260 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: and diplomatic acumen she exhibited inspired people to call her 261 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: the Minerva of the North. Minerva is a reference to 262 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: the ancient Greco Roman god of wisdom and justice and 263 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: law and victory. 264 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 5: But she'll definitely throw a spirit through you, but also warfare. 265 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, she'll put a boot up your ass if you 266 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: mess with her country. 267 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: No, it's true, and it's a really great nickname. 268 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: Half of the times you get these rulers with nicknames 269 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: implying their greed, bloodthirstiness or ethel. He was unprepared, he 270 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: didn't do his homewark. But Minerva of the North that 271 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: is a show of great respect historically, because as we know, 272 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: these nicknames, they don't really stick until after the fact. 273 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: The historian looked on her fondly, especially. 274 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: Considering the stupid system that is monarchy, right, not good? 275 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: I think can we all kind of agree on that 276 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: that monarchy bad? That? Yeah, I think that's not a 277 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: hot take anymore. 278 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: I've been on record with it. 279 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, But I just mean, you know, like having the 280 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: most important, powerful job in the land based solely on 281 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: your parental heritage. 282 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 3: I guess right. It just seems like a losing recipe. 283 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,479 Speaker 2: And we see it time and time again throughout history, 284 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: and of course here in America we see it in 285 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 2: another form, you know, a monarchy by a different name 286 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 2: at times with political dynasties, which I know you also 287 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: have a beef with them. 288 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: Well, I would say it's less of a beef and 289 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: more of an observation that history will find relevant. I 290 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: would also point to Max on this one. Theurg's got 291 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: to by the time they fell, a lot of those 292 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: folks were in charge of things, and they were physically 293 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: incapable of pronouncing their last name. 294 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 5: Oh god, it was it was. I read the obituary 295 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 5: of the autopsy of the last one. I don't think 296 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 5: we could do an episode. 297 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: I don't think we should. 298 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 2: Are we talking because of degradation over generation breeding? 299 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, the Habsburgs were like the poster children of. 300 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 3: They were like the human equivalent of the bulldog. 301 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, no shade to the bulldog, but that is 302 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 2: a troubled beast that probably should not exist. 303 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: They came for wolves. What we're seeing here. The reason 304 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: where stable the cartoonish nature of monarchy is to show 305 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: you that for most of the people alive at the 306 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: time in this kingdom, our pal Christina was like them 307 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: winning a lottery. Right. A person who is automatically assumed 308 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: to be in charge of the country also turns out 309 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: to be very well read, to be intellectual, to exercise empathy. 310 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: This is the person who created the first Swedish newspaper, 311 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: or allowed it to exist, and mass media was a 312 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: very controversial idea at the time. Also the first monarch 313 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: in Sweden to say, hey, maybe we should let all 314 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: of the kids go to school? 315 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 3: What what? 316 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: I love the italics on that. 317 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 318 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, But the idea of educating you know, the plebs 319 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, historically has been a 320 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 2: little risky because you want to keep your underlings, the 321 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: people that you rule over, ignorant. So this is an 322 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: absolutely bombastically progressive idea for the time to jump in. 323 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 5: I mean, if you want to think of another similar, 324 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 5: same time period, bad government design theology. The theology works 325 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 5: often when the masses are not educated. Yeah, so the 326 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 5: person who is, like, you know, the divine leader is 327 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 5: the only one who can read the Bible. 328 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 3: End allbe all religion as a stand in for education. 329 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: In many ways, the argument of intercession shout out to 330 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: Martin Luther right that one time he got super pissed 331 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: and changed history and created the Protestant species of Christianity. 332 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: So our pal Christina, after about ten years of being 333 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: the monarch, she says, you know what I've given you schools, 334 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: I've helped newspapers, I've helped create mass media in this country. 335 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: And I quit. I have learned enough about monarchy to 336 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: think the game is rigged. I'm just going to get 337 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: out of here. I'm going to The fancy word for 338 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: this is abdicate. 339 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, abdicate being a fancy word for stepping aside right, 340 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 2: and it usually it implies agency of the one abdicating, 341 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: though there certainly can be behind the scenes factors that 342 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: might force someone to do that. 343 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: Politically interesting that you say so, because one of the 344 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: reasons cited for this abdicationation was the idea of illness. 345 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, once again from our dear friends at Britannica. 346 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: We're actually very close with the managing staff. It's not true. 347 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: We'd like to be. 348 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: We reach out to us Britannica peeps. We want to 349 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: go have drinks, Yes, goes Dustly. Christina's abdication after ten 350 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 2: years of rule shocked and confused the Christian world. She 351 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: pleaded that she was ill and that the burden of 352 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: ruling was too heavy for a woman. The reasons, however, 353 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: are unclear and still disputed. Now, I would say if 354 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: that were the case, you know, this is certainly you 355 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: know heavy hangs the head that. 356 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: Wears the crown and all of that stuff. 357 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: This is a person who clearly comes from a place 358 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: of relative for the time, goodness and kindness and you know, learnedness. 359 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: And it can be really stressful when you're in that 360 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: situation and you start to realize that this is not 361 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 2: the way of the world, the system that I am 362 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: a part of doesn't think like me. And while you are, 363 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: you know, the kind of last word, there are always 364 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 2: gonna be those little fingers and those grimo worm tongues, 365 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: you know, sort of whispering in your ear and trying 366 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: to head you off at the pass every chance you get. 367 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 2: I imagine that could be incredibly exhausting. And for someone 368 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 2: like Christina, who is a philosophically minded, learn an individual, 369 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: I could think that could really cause some mental strife 370 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: that might require a step back. And this exactly is 371 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: the kind of person that I think would do that. 372 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: But I too am suspicious. Ben here, I too am suspicious. 373 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: Here's one you might enjoy your mileage, may veris that's 374 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: that's for the Game of Thrones folks. Next, Can I 375 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: get a like a dumb joke sort of paradidtal on 376 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: a drum. 377 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 3: A rim shut. 378 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, the bad joke drum that I have saved and 379 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 5: marked easy to find for all the times we make 380 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 5: bad jokes on the show. You want that one? Yeah, 381 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 5: it is bad joke dot wave. 382 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 3: No it's not. 383 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 5: It is bad joke drum dot wave. 384 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: But yes, all right, so this also, I love what 385 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: you're bringing up here. 386 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: This is. 387 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: Loosely, we could loosely describe this as the experience of 388 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: Poland as a country in many, many eras through history. 389 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: Christina was dealing with a situation called contemporarily the Polish question, 390 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: and it was not a metaphor. It was a geopolitical concern. 391 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: The thoughts of abdicating the throne began back when her 392 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: buddy Renee that we mentioned earlier, he got pneumonia. Yeah, 393 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: he coughed and therefore he was dead. 394 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I studied him in college. I really do like 395 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: the work of de gard It's very interesting stuff. 396 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: I think so as well. And he died after having 397 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: heavily influenced this monarch. And he's one of the guys 398 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: who pitched the idea of building an institution of higher learning, 399 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: and she was very much on board with this. Christina 400 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: would sit through, you know, various as he said, various 401 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: as he said, little fingers and whisperers, and then she 402 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: would sort of fast forward past their concerns and say, hey, 403 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: we should start a university. That guy who died of pneumonia, 404 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: he was onto something cool. She also she also had 405 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: to continually deal with council what do they call it 406 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: in Song of Ice and Fire. 407 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 3: This small council. 408 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, she had to deal with those folks who were 409 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: old dudes, and they were continually trying to speak down 410 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: to her. 411 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 2: It sounds like, oh and sorry to keep referencing Song 412 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: of Ice and Fire stuff. And while some people maybe 413 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: aren't as hot about the House of Dragons show as 414 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: they are about the early parts of Game of Thrones, 415 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: I do think that the dragon Queen character in House 416 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 2: of Dragons is a pretty good parallel for this this 417 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: character historically speaking, because she is kind and benevolent and 418 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: educated and diplomatic, and she's also surrounded with a bunch 419 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 2: of BROI douchey dudes who are trying to you know, 420 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 2: quagmire her every chance they get. 421 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 1: Ooh, quagmire as a verb. Nice. Also, this council of dudes, 422 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: this bro council, would not let her quit. She said, 423 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: I want to abdicate the throne, and they said, oh 424 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: ha ha ha ha, no worries. And she suffered a 425 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: severe breakdown. According to history, I suspect a conspiracy because 426 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: she was confined to her bedchambers. I think she did 427 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: not want to play the role of public figure and 428 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: mascot and I think she was punished for having a conscience. 429 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: She also, being the queen, was allowed to ask for 430 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: their version of therapist right, which would be religious intercessors attendance. 431 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: There was one guy, father Antonio Messido, who would come 432 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: and visit her frequently. This brewly small council was worried 433 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: get this. They were worried that she would turn Catholic. 434 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 5: And to jump in real quick. One note that I 435 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 5: did find that was very interesting is how her father 436 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 5: died was fighting Catholics. These people hated Catholics. 437 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, they hated Catholics. 438 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, but despite the you know, whispers and screams, they 439 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 2: got progressively more desperate of Christina's counsel. 440 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 3: She did decide to put. 441 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: Her time as Queen of Sweden to an end, and 442 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: she then decided to in sixteen fifty three leave Sweden. 443 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: She knew that the kind of administrative I guess process 444 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: of filing the paperwork or whatever for her abdication was 445 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 2: going to take some time weeks, months possibly, and she 446 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: was ready to get this done. So she reached out 447 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: to her cousin who was next in line, Charles the 448 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: tenth Gustavus to Base offer him the job or just 449 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: make sure he was down with it. 450 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 3: He was game and she was out. 451 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you need an exit plan, right because otherwise this 452 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: person disappearing from Sweden would trigger an enormously tragic civil 453 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: war because other people would race to practice usurpation. 454 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: Right again, Song of Ice and Fires, Well, the whole 455 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: series is about people scrapping for that, you know, I 456 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: mean it really when there's no clear line of ascension 457 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: I guess is the term, then you got people coming 458 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: out of the woodwork, and it can really. 459 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 3: Cause serious, serious loss of life. 460 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 5: Right. Or in another case in the Elder Scrolls, when 461 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 5: Martin Septim crushes the Amulet of the Kings and becomes Acotash, 462 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 5: there's no heir to the throne, so the empire paro 463 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 5: kind of civil war enticed media. A war lord just 464 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 5: became emperor. 465 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: I think that's what most people think think of Max 466 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: when they're trying to you know. 467 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: Immediately, immediately, that's the best part of the show so far. 468 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: So we also know that, look, let's picture this our 469 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: pal Christina. Right as we're saying, just to recap, she 470 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: contacts her cousin to make sure someone will be a 471 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: figurehead for the monarchy at the time. And then she 472 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: goes she goes on an adventure that I genuinely believe 473 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: is under reported in history and could be an awesome 474 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: story for our nascent, emergent ridiculous history cinema. She goes 475 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: around disguised as a night in the sixteen hundreds, and 476 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: then she arrives in Rome and hangs out with Pope 477 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: Alexander the seventh and he sees this not disgraced but 478 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: definitely a wall monarch, and and he goes, Oh, let 479 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: me welcome you in. I I hear you like Catholics. 480 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 3: I was. 481 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: I was about to say, like, she's sort of known 482 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: as being Catholic curious right at this point. 483 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Wow, Catholic curious. I mean, it's the thing. 484 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 2: You know, people were concerned about it, and their fears 485 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: certainly weren't allayed by her like fleeing directly to Rome 486 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 2: into the arms of the pope and being like feted 487 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: with luxurious dinners and red carpets, you know, galas or whatever. 488 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 5: Let's to say she wasn't curious, Well, sure, but you 489 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 5: know that's how it starts. 490 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: Have you tried it? Orgelon, I I imagine you've read 491 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: the books, and you maybe under the impression that we 492 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: live in a state of piety and poverty. But also 493 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: the boy, have you tried an ordol on? 494 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, for anyone that doesn't remember the order lane is the. 495 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: Tiny hollow boned bird that was a delicacy so decadent 496 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 2: in those days that when you consumed it, it's supposed 497 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: to be all in one bite. I believe it's fried 498 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: in butter and whatever. You're supposed to put a like 499 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: a like a silk napkin over your head to hide 500 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: your your depravity from God. 501 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: Right, an omniscient, omnipotent creator. 502 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 3: That you can pickaboo with. This is a sucker for loopholes. 503 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: I'm not here. 504 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 4: I'm here. 505 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 2: God has no object permanence in this scenario. 506 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: So as as we're saying this is a sensation in Rome, right, 507 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: this is this is like if your favorite American president 508 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: suddenly moved to. 509 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: Russia, but you know, probably not the best of pr 510 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: stories back home in Sweden, right, because I mean she's 511 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 2: no longer the ruler, but she still represents the country 512 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: at least symbolically, right. 513 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: Right, And she can't not do politics because she's very 514 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: gifted in this regard This is again a quintessential textbook diplomat. 515 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: She starts negotiations with the Chief Minister of France, Cardinal Mazarin, 516 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: and then she also talks to the Duke Diamodena to 517 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: take control of Naples. At this time, Naples was controlled 518 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: by Spain, and her pitch was for a person who 519 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: abandoned monarchy. 520 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 3: This is weird. 521 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: Her pitch was, I'll just beat Queen and Naples, you 522 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Not my first roudeo. 523 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,479 Speaker 2: But it's like, let me clean up shop, get things 524 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: in a good place, and then I'll abdicate again, this 525 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 2: time to a French prince. 526 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the idea, and the scheme did not work out. 527 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 3: Good call call it what it is. 528 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, Although wouldn't you say this is kind of a 529 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 2: like is she is she manipulating or is she really 530 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: looking out for like the best scenario for Europe? 531 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: Unclear? 532 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 5: I would say she was known to live a very 533 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 5: lavish life, and a lot of reports said she for 534 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 5: many periods of time while she was living in Rome, 535 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 5: she was living basically, she was falling in debt. 536 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 3: High on the hog. 537 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: She needed a grift, okay. 538 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 3: Okay, money all right, So you know less. 539 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 2: It's so eas to look back through history when you 540 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 2: see kind of a good apple to sort of like 541 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: give them just all the praise because it's such a rarity. 542 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: But history is also rife with these things we call 543 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 2: humans that are very imperfect and can he can be 544 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: a victim of their own foibles. So while she may 545 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: have had some good qualities, and may have done some 546 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: good things and exhibited some humility, this doesn't seem like 547 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: the best continuation of those themes. 548 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: She also put out a hit on several people. The 549 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: most famous one was she went to the government and said, 550 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: I need you to kill this guy. He's a snitch. 551 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: He is lying to the Pope about me. And they 552 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: asked why should we kill him, and she said, I'm 553 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: not taking questions, just get it done. Yeah, And everybody 554 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: in France was amazed that she would say this. The 555 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: Pope no longer trusted her. The Pope was like, this 556 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: lady's gonna kill anyone, you know, that's kind of wild. 557 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: That's a verbatim quote from the Pope. 558 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 2: It does seem like she was going off the rails 559 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 2: a little bit. So she did. However, despite all of 560 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: this scandal, lived to become one of the most important 561 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: historical figures in terms of her influence on politics of 562 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 2: this era. She continued to be friends with further future popes. 563 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 2: She did continue to spread her love of the finer things, 564 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: the arts, philosophy, poetry, literature, you know, all across Europe. 565 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: Also, she became this sort of thought leader, right, which 566 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: seems to be her ultimate aspiration, her taste in the arts, 567 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: her patronage of these things. She collected paintings that became 568 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: beyond price, right, pieces of human civilization. Also created spaces 569 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: for what we would call salons or hangouts, right. She 570 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: invented cool coffee shops without coffee, where people would hang 571 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: out and talk about their big ideas like de Carte, 572 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: you know, like this is one best example of this 573 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: would be the Arcadia Academy, which she founded and it 574 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: is still in Rome today. I hear you can walk in. 575 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 3: I'd be cool. 576 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: I really would love to visit Rome and something on 577 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 2: my She was also a mean you really kind of 578 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 2: consider her almost a taste maker in a way. She really, 579 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: you know, those paintings that we're talking about were so 580 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 2: valuable because her influence caused them to appreciate in value 581 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: because she sort of set the tone of what was 582 00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 2: popular in a lot of ways. 583 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: Hm, hm, And she also set, I would argue, a 584 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: pretty cool precedent or participated in a precedent that is 585 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: important today abdicating power. There there is a controversial history 586 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: of monarchs stepping down. Just to be clear, folks, most 587 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: monarchs in that imperfect system tend to die in office 588 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: or you know, whether it's you know, whether they shut 589 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: themselves to death or whether they whether they meet the 590 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: wrong end of the game. 591 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 5: Series, we have a series of people dying bad ways. 592 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 5: We have one episode of seriously only dedicated to be 593 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 5: able to himself to death. 594 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,959 Speaker 1: He did, he did, That's how he died. 595 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 2: And I do think it's an interesting parallel to what's 596 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 2: going on in you know, kind of modern political life. 597 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 2: Is like, whatever your political persuasions are, and whatever you 598 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 2: think of this action, the fact that Joe Biden stepped 599 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: down and stepped aside is interesting historically, you know, whether 600 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 2: you think it was a magnanimous act, you know, or 601 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 2: whether you think he was like you know, behind the scenes, 602 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 2: elbowed out. It's not something that happens all the time. 603 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: Also to that point, if we're speaking of current parallels, 604 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 1: I want to shout out the King of Bhuton, who 605 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: went from an absolute monarchy to a democracy and did 606 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: it on purpose. That is the most baller fucking move. 607 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,240 Speaker 3: It's true. 608 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely not the way things usually go. 609 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 3: Usually goes the other way around. 610 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: I think maybe we do a ridiculous history of Bhuton 611 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 1: at some point. That place is amazing. 612 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 2: It's very much in your wheelhouse, Ben, and I will 613 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 2: follow you wherever you may lead and happily learn a 614 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 2: lot alongside the ridiculous historians out there amongst us. 615 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: Well, let me follow you here. How do we wrap 616 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: up this amazing story of the Minerva of the North. 617 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 2: A couple other interesting things that she did. She helped 618 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 2: establish the first public opera house in Rome. She was 619 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 2: also a patron of some very big names in classical 620 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 2: music that you might be familiar with. Alessandro Scarlatti, who 621 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 2: actually became her choir master, and Arcangelo Corelli, who was 622 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: another composer. If you grew up playing an orchestraser know 623 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 2: much about classical we probably know most of these names. 624 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: He actually directed her orchestras sculptor by the name of 625 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 2: Giovanni Bernini who I have heard of that I'm not 626 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 2: mega mega familiar with. She was a massive fan of 627 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: books and had a huge library of books and manuscripts 628 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 2: that is actually now held in the Vatican Library. 629 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: She also said, don't pick on people for their ethnicity, 630 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: or for their religion, their creed, whatever. She supported the 631 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: idea of intellectual revolution, that's what I would call it. 632 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: She wanted people to be empowered with opportunities to discover information. 633 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: And she yes had her ups and downs. She definitely 634 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 1: grifted a couple of times. If we're just being honest. 635 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 3: You boiled it down perfectly, Ben. 636 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it really all comes down to what was 637 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 2: her motto Ben at the beginning of the episode that 638 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 2: we mentioned, wisdom supports the nation. I think that really 639 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 2: held true for the most part throughout her career in politics. 640 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 3: And as a very important patron of the arts. 641 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she didn't take mess. She took no guff. 642 00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: That is apparent. When she passed away in sixty eighty nine, 643 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: she was entuned in Saint Peter's Basilica. 644 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 3: Now I did one. 645 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how much you guys study tombs, 646 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: but that's like the nice neighborhood as far as burials go. 647 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, but that's Minerva of the North, the 648 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 4: Swedish Queen who was so enlightened she quit being the 649 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 4: queen on. 650 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,720 Speaker 1: Purpose, on purpose. Thank you as always to our super 651 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, Thanks also to his brother Alex Williams, 652 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: who composed this soundtrack. 653 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 2: Was air Horns for Alex's team Hughes thanks to Chris 654 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 2: Frosciota's and he was Jeff Coats here in Spirra Jonathan Strickland, the. 655 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 3: Quiz thro AJ Jacobs, the Puzzler A J. Bahamas Jacobs. 656 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, yes, and we will never explain it, 657 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: but do tune in with her. Pal Aj. What a delightful, 658 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: brilliant guy, you. 659 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,760 Speaker 2: Know, a rightly fellow, real mischievous little scamp. 660 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got to shine to him. He's the type 661 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,280 Speaker 1: of dude that if he were if he were put 662 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:16,919 Speaker 1: in a monarchical situation, he would spend his time educating 663 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: the kingdom and then he would leave. 664 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very unbranded. 665 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 2: Lest we not also heap compliments on our buddy Jonathan Strickland, 666 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 2: the quist. 667 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 3: That guy is pure evil. 668 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. He wrote to me earlier and 669 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: said I think democracy is overrated. And I said, what 670 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: do you mean? And he was like, I think I 671 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: would be better as a king than a podcaster. 672 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 5: I don't know. He's pretty weird. I feel like he 673 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 5: want to be in a monarchy, that he would want 674 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 5: to be one of the peasants, which is what he is. 675 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:53,359 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 676 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 3: Classic, and he's got to shine too. It comes from 677 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 3: his bald head. 678 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: There it is. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. 679 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,720 Speaker 3: See you next time, folks. 680 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 681 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.